…and this is a 
In this case, it's unintentional, though. His mangled version of Darwin's Origin is currently the #1 result of searches for the Origin on Amazon. It's not there honestly, though: it's because Amazon's indexing system has a deep flaw. It doesn't seem to actually track which edition is the most popular…it just gladly gives Comfort's edition full credit with every other edition of the same book. This also means that the star rating for the Comfort edition is elevated; he's getting a leg up by appropriating all the reviews for all the other editions.
Here's a video to explain the situation.
Amazon needs to fix this, and fix it soon. Otherwise, I predict, every single lousy creationist out there is going to grab any out-of-copyright, reputable science book out there and come out with their own edition by slapping a dishonest foreword on it, and get a free ride on the reputation of the original authors.
I'll also add that if Ray Comfort has the tiniest scrap of integrity in his itty-bitty body, he'll be leading the charge to demand that Amazon give credit where it is due and sort out their scrambled ratings system.
Comments
Posted by: James F | October 20, 2009 6:25 PM
He slapped a fallacious foreword on a classic science text. I'm somewhat less than sanguine about the prospects of this happening.
Posted by: alphgeek | October 20, 2009 6:26 PM
It would be easier to demonstrate the existence of God than it would the existence of Ray Comfort's integrity. The man is a shameless liar.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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October 20, 2009 6:28 PM
God, what a stupid rating system. Not that I ever thought Amazon's "it's popular so it's good" system ever had any real merit.
It's the kind of fuck-up that only design makes, while Archaeopteryx reveals the kinds of fuck-ups that only evolution produces. OK, to be fair, there may be some overlap between the two types of errors, but clearly there isn't much.
Takes a Ray Comfort, and a whole herd of the ignorant and/or stupid to confuse the two kinds of errors.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: Trug
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October 20, 2009 6:30 PM
The issue seems to be that Comfort's book shares the same title as one other book recently released called "Origin of the Species: 150th Anniversary Edition". So Amazon just needs to whack on "Nutjob Creationist Foreword Edition" on Comfort's edition and the problem should be solved.
Posted by: Peter G.
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October 20, 2009 6:35 PM
While it's true they will be able to deface many classic science books with bogus commentary and forwards it will also mean they actually have to read them in order not to seem complete asses. This presents a fairly high barrier to overcome and they risk contamination by thought. I hope they leave Mankind Evolving alone anyway.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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October 20, 2009 6:36 PM
I submit that there is about as much evidence for Ray Comfort's integrity as there is for Ray Comfort's god. However, there's at least a chance (however slim) that Ray Comfort might do something to fix his lack of integrity...
Posted by: Keith | October 20, 2009 6:39 PM
Tracking editions is a constant headache for booksellers and librarians, and it isn't helped by dishonest jackasses who are taking advantage of a not so much broken as strained system, knowingly pushing their crap under a more prestigious label because they're counting on their audience not being able to tell the difference.
Posted by: Jeff Eyges | October 20, 2009 6:40 PM
Amazon never fixes anything. It's part of their corporate ethos. Just try to get an inappropriate review removed.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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October 20, 2009 6:43 PM
Really? Do you think their target demographics will care or even be able to tell if they've read the book or not?
OT In other news, Glaswegians' lack of familiarity with the obvious visage of Odin the Wanderer leaves this commenter shaking his head at the state of education in the UK. (My apologies if this has already been submitted, but I haven't had time to read Pharyngula today.)
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 20, 2009 6:43 PM
Has anyone gotten a copy of this book yet? I checked my copy of Origin at home, and in its small print it is well over 300 pages. How did Comfort get everything in 304 pages including his creationist screed?
Posted by: brianjordan
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October 20, 2009 6:49 PM
While I agree with what you say about Comfort and his banana-skin edition, I don't see where all editions are ranked together. The BS edition (ISBN 1592242863) is running at three stars, with 23/52 reviews slating it. Whereas the facsimile edition 1592242863 has better than 4 stars with only 2/14 reviews panning it.
Similarly on Amazon UK my own modest review of the BS edition has crept to the top of the list (after a little amateur Pharyngulation).
Posted by: Douglas Watts | October 20, 2009 6:49 PM
PZ -- I think anyone but the most committed anti-scientist ideologue is going to think something is askew if every version of Euclid's Elements they buy from Amazon has a 50 page prologue arguing that everything in the actual text to follow is a bunch of atheist, secular hokum.
Not to say they won't try.
The square root of two, after all, is truly evil.
Posted by: Peter G.
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October 20, 2009 6:49 PM
For pity's sake Brownian that door is clearly oak and I'd recognize Treebeard anywhere.
Posted by: Doo Shabag
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October 20, 2009 6:55 PM
Well, it can't hurt to try. I sent an email through customer service, AND I sent the video link to a friend of mine who works at Amazon. He's on the software side, maybe he knows who can fix it.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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October 20, 2009 6:56 PM
Whether or not this is unintentional, the misdirection of putting creationist lies into a fine science book in order to try to fake out those who want truth is one gigantic piece of dishonesty.
But hey, it's lying for Jesus, so it's all good.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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October 20, 2009 6:57 PM
Oh, a heretic eh?
Posted by: brianjordan
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October 20, 2009 6:58 PM
@me, #11
Sorry, I gave the same ISBN for both editions. The BS edition is 0882709194, the facsimile is 1592242863
Just to reiterate my point, if you search Amazon on "origin of species darwin" you get a page http://tinyurl.com/ykorbzj which has Ray Ray at the top but clearly marked with only three stars.
Posted by: Peter G.
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October 20, 2009 7:00 PM
@16 Pretty much yes. That link really illustrates the perils of clear cutting for slow moving Ents.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 20, 2009 7:03 PM
I find it quite telling that the people who are making this a battle over morality are the ones who lie to support their position. And thanks to that combination of deception under the pretence of honesty, they've amassed an army of well-intentioned followers that buy into such nonsense.There's something really disturbing about the way in which professional creationists operate.
Posted by: willbxtn
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October 20, 2009 7:03 PM
Fortunately, the UK Amazon doesn't stock Ray Comfort's bastardised version, so all is well here across the pond. I hope Amazon fix it state-side, though...
Posted by: Peter G.
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October 20, 2009 7:06 PM
To be fair The Origin of Species confuses Ray too and both he and Amazon run very simple algorithms.
Posted by: David | October 20, 2009 7:09 PM
maybe it's time for the PZ Myers Anniversary Bible edition.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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October 20, 2009 7:10 PM
I used to wonder about this but then I realised that these people - the religious - have to lie to themselves, constantly, in order to retain the beliefs they hold. And when you're okay with lying to yourself you probably don't consider lying to others to be a bad thing.
Posted by: ferret wrangler | October 20, 2009 7:14 PM
Ray-Rayturd released another book of tripe: "Nothing Created Everything" and reviewed it himself at 5 stars:
5.0 out of 5 stars Nothing Created Everything, October 12, 2009
By Ray M. Comfort (CA)
My last book, "You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence But You Can't Make Him Think" knocked Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion" off the number one spot in the atheism division. Then atheists (God bless them) swarmed in and gave it hundreds of stinging reviews. It was interesting to see one review saying that the book was the best thing since sliced bread, while the next said it was far worse than the worst mold on rotting bread. Let's see what happens with this book."
Current Amazon.com Sales Rank: #18,068 in Books
-----------------------------------------------------
Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth"
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #31 in Books
Popular in these categories:
#1 in Books > Professional & Technical > Professional Science > Biological Sciences > Biology
#1 in Books > Science > Evolution
#1 in Books > Professional & Technical > Medical > Basic Sciences
Posted by: Copernicus | October 20, 2009 7:27 PM
parting comment from Max: "Peace and Love to all my fellow monkeys"... ouch, I wish he hadn't!
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble OM4Jesus
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October 20, 2009 7:33 PM
Dear Atheist book collectors,
My mentally challenged Noo Zillund cousin Ray Comfort has agreed to comply with PZ's request "to demand that Amazon give credit where it is due". He has authorized me to draft a letter for him, as he is himself illiterate, incontinent and inbred and uses me as his Holy Ghostwriter. Ray's explanation for the Amazon fiasco is "goddidit", which I have intepreted thus:
Dear Amazondotcom,
I, Ray Cumfort, demand that you give credit to GOD the ALMIGHTY BANANA MAKER for working into HIS Divine Plan the complete failure of your software ranking systems so that my version of Christian Truth and Darwinophobia ranks higher than that rank pile of lies and distortions, The BIBLE. I know evilution is a lie because I am not descended from a monkey, I have a designed eye, and no one has fucked me up the arse.
Yours in Christian clarity
Ray Comfart
Voted World's Smelliest Lying Turd, 5 years running
Posted by: Walton | October 20, 2009 7:33 PM
Ray Comfort is a parasite... but at least, unlike me, he has a job and an income. :-(
Maybe I could establish my own crazy religious movement, con thousands of stupid people and get rich off their donations... but I won't, because, unlike Ray Comfort, I actually believe that integrity and intellectual honesty are important. Go figure.
Posted by: Lee | October 20, 2009 7:36 PM
"How did Comfort get everything in 304 pages including his creationist screed?"
He may have removed some of the text.
Posted by: Richard H.
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October 20, 2009 7:36 PM
Does anyone know how I can get a copy of this book (other than sending Ray Comfort money)?
It seems like it'd make a nice trophy of emerging New Atheism.
Posted by: brianjordan
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October 20, 2009 7:45 PM
@Richard H #29
Hang around on the right USA campus and he'll probably throw one at you.Posted by: Kel, OM | October 20, 2009 7:46 PM
that's my thinking, I'm just curious as to whether he has preserved Darwin's writings or mangled them to serve his agenda. There are plenty of jobs out there, are you really jealous of those who have to scrub toilets or masturbate turkeys for a living?Posted by: bullofthewoods
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October 20, 2009 7:48 PM
Walton, I can hardly believe I am saying this, but I find myself agreeing with you.
Posted by: Rorschach | October 20, 2009 7:57 PM
Hang around on the right USA campus and he'll probably throw one at you.
Or just on the right beach !
Posted by: Brain Hertz
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October 20, 2009 8:06 PM
But since we know that they won't fix it, when does your annotated version of the Bible come out?
Posted by: wrpd | October 20, 2009 8:06 PM
Does anyone know if Ray Comfort has a Green Card?
Posted by: Kris
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October 20, 2009 8:09 PM
PZ, this post breaks your RSS feed. I've emailed Seed explaining what's wrong and how to fix it, but I'm not especially sanguine that they'll respond. Could you remove the "" bits from the content so we don't have to wait for this post to cycle out before the feed works properly again?
Posted by: David B
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October 20, 2009 8:12 PM
So is there any sort of strategy for getting Amazon to fix this, and if so, what?
If there is one, I can do my bit by publicising it on the secular discussion boards I post on.
David
Posted by: Xenithrys
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October 20, 2009 8:16 PM
wrpd @ 35
Don't go there – we don't want him back in New Zealand.Posted by: brianjordan
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October 20, 2009 8:25 PM
@me, #11
Now I'm confused - and not just because it's late. I've only just realised that although each edition/ISBN is given its own separate, different star rating, the Bananaskin edition on Amazon UK has four reviews of which only my 1-star review is of that actual edition. The other three reviews are of older editions. So sorry PZ, Amazon is indeed a mess.
Or maybe not. I've just looked again at .com and it's down to one and a half stars. It can't have been Pharyngulated because there are only 19 reviews - surely far *fewer* than earlier. Has PZ Pharyngulated Amazon's algorithm?
Posted by: Ermine | October 20, 2009 8:35 PM
I think they've actually fixed it! It was a mixup when I started looking through the comments there, but by the time I was done, it was down to 19 comments, all negative.
Here's hopin'!
Posted by: The Chemist | October 20, 2009 8:46 PM
Oh this pisses me off more than unscrupulous Google-bombers. I understand that Amazon is in it for the money and has no real incentive to promote one book over another (and may be contractually forbidden from doing so- which I'm not claiming is the case, but I can imagine the possibility). I'm trying to imagine a way for them to undo this in a way that isn't disruptive to the system as a whole.
I will say that the version published by Signet is probably popular cause it's cheap. That's why I got it! (No offense to the author of course)
Posted by: The Chemist | October 20, 2009 8:49 PM
@Smoggy Batzrubble OM4Jesus
Wow, I'm just surprised (and disappointed) you managed "cumfort" and "comfart" but didn't manage to combine the two the right way.
Posted by: Lynn | October 20, 2009 9:08 PM
Note to self: Name next book "The Purpose Driven Life."
Posted by: Copernicus | October 20, 2009 9:11 PM
Hmmm, tried to write this review but Amazon seem to be having trouble...
Posted by: BigHeathenMike | October 20, 2009 9:11 PM
If you're waiting for Comfort to show integrity, you might want to pack a lunch. And bring a book. A big book. Like the original On the Origin of Species! See how I brought that around?! I'm a pro.
Posted by: Copernicus | October 20, 2009 9:33 PM
and the ridiculous thing is (although they do note it), when you take a "Look Inside", Amazon show you the Signet Classic edition with Sir Julian's intro and not the Cumfart edition... [just for you Chemist]
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | October 20, 2009 9:37 PM
@ #35
Comfort claims to be an American citizen, but if he wants to put this accusation to bed, he should produce his citizen papers for us to see.
Posted by: Reality Check | October 20, 2009 9:39 PM
It looks like Amazon.com have sorted the rating out.
Ray Comfort's perversion of the Origin of Species is now rated at 1.5 stars (from 19 reviews).
My guess is that they separated this from the real "The Origin Of Species: 150th Anniversary Edition" by adding "[ABRIDGED]" to the title of Ray Comfort's version.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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October 20, 2009 9:41 PM
Ooooooooooh. Ask me! Ask me!
Dr dr Dumbski, the Isaac Newton of Information Theory, just put up his new book: Principia Mathematica Informatica.
Posted by: Sceptical Chymist | October 20, 2009 9:57 PM
I've just set an Email to Amazon expressing my indignation at this statistical travesty, and stating that until they fix their software I won't be buying anything more from Amazon or Amazon Stores. Unfortunately, this will probably hurt me more than them, since I get all of my books and most of my CDs from them, but maybe they'll get the message if they get enough Emails like mine.
Posted by: Copernicus | October 20, 2009 9:58 PM
Reality Check #48
Abridged?
But Comfort says: "The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot nor tittle will be removed"...
so what exactly has been reduced, condensed, cut short, or curtailed?
Posted by: Lsuoma | October 20, 2009 10:08 PM
Just to let you know that this afternoon I spoke with the catalog team at Amazon.com, and the reason the ratings were mixed together is that there was an erroneous linkage between the two titles (since they were so similar). That linkage had already been deleted by the time I spoke with the team, but it takes some hours for the system to resolve things. You should begin to see the ratings separate, and gravitate to the individual editions overnight.
Posted by: tacitus | October 20, 2009 10:11 PM
The rating for Comfort's book is now 1 1/2 stars. Things see to be improving.
Posted by: Lsuoma | October 20, 2009 10:16 PM
BTW, there are other errors on the page as well, such as having The God Delusion and the Greatest Show on Earth frequently purchased with Comfort's edition of Origin, plus the fact that the product description refers to the Signet Classic edition (though to be fair it does explicitly state "--This text refers to an alternate Paperback edition."
I will call my buddy at Amazon.com tomorrow and ask him to get those fixed as well.
Posted by: Copernicus | October 20, 2009 10:19 PM
Lsuoma
re. me at #51- why is it being described as "abridged"- what is missing?
Posted by: Lsuoma | October 20, 2009 10:19 PM
@tacitus #13
That is because the link is broken between the two editions now, the ratings are ONLY being seen on the pages describing each individual edition, not being aggregated on all editions that were linked.
Posted by: Douglas Watts | October 20, 2009 10:19 PM
Anyone selling or giving away copies of the Origin of Species, goofy prologue or not, is doing a service to humans.
Posted by: Gliewmeden | October 20, 2009 10:20 PM
Interesting: Since I live in Canada, I first did Amazon.ca and find NO version of Ray Comfort's book. (Well, for the first 4 or 5 pages of Amazon that I went through.)
WHEW!!!!
So, I did an Amazon.com and guess what? Yep.... R.C.'s book is #2.
Hmmmm..... what does that tell ya? Please, don't tell any Canucks about this dumb book of his because, as we all know, if you talk about it, it makes itself known.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | October 20, 2009 10:23 PM
Still waiting on all the many reviews we submitted to AMZ.
I'm also still not sure on what a proper page count should be.
I have the Modern Library paperback and that's 626 pages excluding introduction, history and glossary sections.
Thick and the type is a reasonable font.
I don't know how you'd squeeze that into a 334 page edition.
Posted by: Lsuoma | October 20, 2009 10:27 PM
@Copernicus #55.
I have no idea, I'm afraid: I wouldn't buy the drivel, and the "Abridged" in the title is supplied by the publisher, not Amazon, so even my friend there is very unlikely to be able to find out.
My guesses are that the things missing though, are:
1. Integrity
2. Common sense
3. Honesty
...well, you get the picture...
Posted by: Lsuoma | October 20, 2009 10:30 PM
BTW, everyone, although the link to the free PDF download of the intro is no longer on Comfort's site, you can download a copy from this link (if you want to, that is...)
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble OM4Jesus
|
October 20, 2009 10:34 PM
Dear Brother Chemist @ 42
My decision not to sully the time-honored and honorable art of cumfarting by linking it with Ray Discomfort was a deliberate one.
The cumfart has many good qualities that do not apply to Comfart:
1. cumfarts can give pleasure to others
2. cumfarts occasionally sound intelligent
3. cumfarts suggest some sort of internal life in the cumfarter
4. a cumfart signifies that at least one other person likes the cumfartee
5. cumfarts require more than a stupid banana
6. even monkey's like cumfarts
QU: What's the difference between Ray Comfort and a cumfart?
A: One is a sputtering release of noxious gas and odious dribble and the other is a fart.
AMEN
Smoggy
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | October 20, 2009 10:46 PM
Many thanks for that Lsuoma.
So it looks like, from the chapter contents, Ray left out:
Chapter VII: Miscellaneous objections to the Theory of natural Selection
Chapter X: On the Imperfection of the Geological Record
Chapter XII and XIII: Geographical Distribution
Chapter XIV: Mutual Affinities of Organic Beings; Morphology; Embryology; Rudimentary Organs
....and then he didn't keep the conclusion as its own chapter.
This version is pretty much useless for anyone who doesn't already know Darwin's answers to potential challenges.
It seems pretty clear that Comfort wants to win by ignoring the methodology...as if anybody would take his version seriously.
Posted by: mattb | October 20, 2009 11:11 PM
This is seriously fucked up. I use Amazon all the time and I've got a Kindle. I'm going to stop buying until they fix this bullshit.
Posted by: A. Noyd
|
October 20, 2009 11:22 PM
Ryan F Stello (#63)
The missing chapters, numbered correctly, are:
9: On the Imperfection of the Geological Record
11: Geographical Distribution
12: Geographical Distribution - continued
13: Mutual Affinities of Organic Beings: Morphology: Embryology: Rudimentary Organs
He's apparently kept six (not seven), which is called "Difficulties on Theory," not "Miscellaneous objections..." What he did leave out is ridiculous, though. And how clever of him to renumber the remaining chapters and never mention that his version is abridged.
Posted by: Keippernicus | October 20, 2009 11:49 PM
I have an objection to this video. The embedded vid links to a MIRROR and not the original. Due credit should be given to user "itsmaxinthebox" for his original content.
Link to original follows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3v3MMT0v4
Posted by: The Chemist | October 20, 2009 11:51 PM
@Smoggy
Ah, thanks for clearing that up so, -er graphically.
Posted by: pradeep | October 21, 2009 12:11 AM
If you have an Amazon.com account, then please vote this silly version down with an appropriate review of why you are doing so.
Posted by: Cowcakes
|
October 21, 2009 12:15 AM
Ray Comfort is a parasite
Yes
Posted by: Chris | October 21, 2009 12:39 AM
I don't know if anyone has noticed: but the issue has been at least partially fixed. Even though the Ray Comfort book still comes up as number 1, they no longer share the same reviews.
Posted by: Wesley Voorhies | October 21, 2009 12:47 AM
I spoke with Jeanelle, tonight at Amazon.com. I had trouble finding their contact information, so I located their number. Ask for Jeanelle (possibly Jen-elle).
1-866-216-1072. International customers can reach us at 1-206-266-2992.
I explained the problem, and asked her to forward the information along. She seemed very willing to help. I would have, of course sent an e-mail, however, my quick searches yeilded no address to forward the complaint.
Complaint is lodged on my end. I hope they get several thousand more on the telephone. I utilized the word "hooey," to describe the difference between the two versions. Maybe, "hooey," could one day be the bad word that makes religionists shout foul about.
Posted by: mattb | October 21, 2009 12:54 AM
I sent an email. If you have an Amazon account you can just click "help" in the top right corner. Then click "contact us" (in yellow) on the right side. Click the email tab and complain away.
Posted by: itsmaxinthebox
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October 21, 2009 2:06 AM
Thank you very much for mirroring my video. I have been very surprised at how quickly and effectively the community at large has responded. Thanks! I'll be posting an update fairly soon. The video on this post is a mirror generously posted by FFreeThinker. So I will not get any comments that may be left on it and I will not be able to update it. You can get updates etc at my channel or my original video as detailed at the end of the video FFreethinker mirrored. Thanks again everyone!
Posted by: itsmaxinthebox
|
October 21, 2009 2:31 AM
I have just been made aware that it would be helpful if the video mirrored were mine. I am actively updating the annotations to give a running account of events as I find them changing. I hope that anyone that's participating in making Amazon aware of the need to address this issue will contact me via my YouTube account to let me know of any changes they are experiencing so that I can post updates to let everyone else know. Thanks to everyone for picking this up and running with it! I'll be around.
The original video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3v3MMT0v4
Posted by: MrJonno | October 21, 2009 2:50 AM
Time to rerelease the Bible with a reality based introduction
Posted by: mothwentbad
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October 21, 2009 3:01 AM
It is a trivial exercise to formulate a shoe on the other foot scenario for this one. Let's just hope Amazon picks up the ball, though.
Posted by: Lynx
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October 21, 2009 3:57 AM
Amazon fixed the issue. I also got a message back from them pretty fast:
"Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are aware of this incident and our appropriate department is working on removing the link between the two books. The change should go live very soon."
I checked and now Comfort's version is no longer on top of the search. The legitimate version has had it's unfair one stars removed BUT Comfort still has a suspiciously large number of five stars. Still, a considerable improvement and Amazon should be commended for their quick action.
Posted by: Reynold | October 21, 2009 4:25 AM
There is no hope for the followers of people like Ray Comfort. Why? Look at this comment on his blog.
Then look at the comments left by the other commentators like Steven J who try to explain where Ray has buggered up the facts. (There's a LOT of smart people over there, ironically enough) who keep trying to clean up Ray's messes.
Now note that this idiotic person I've linked to takes no notice of the fact that Ray keeps getting corrected on "mistakes" that he keeps making...she just figures that he's being "persecuted".
This is the level of stupidity that people like Ray take advantage of. Even when it's continually pointed out to them, they still won't see it.
Posted by: Reynold | October 21, 2009 4:32 AM
Whoops. I forgot to mention: this commentator has figured out Ray's MO...Bathtub has noted how Ray deals with debate offers.
No matter how dishonest these people are, no matter how many times they're publically exposed, it seems to make no difference at all except among those who already see people like Ray as the bullshit artists they are.
Posted by: brianjordan
|
October 21, 2009 5:27 AM
An excellent resolution. I've emailed Amazon UK asking them to do the same. We need to beware, though, of Ray Ray's new edition, which is not abridged. Once he gets it printed up (if stocks of the old one ever run out?) they may tie the two together again.
Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold
|
October 21, 2009 5:37 AM
I had reason to contact Amazon UK a couple of years ago over a similar issue.
Anthony Beevor had a new book out on the Spanish Civil War. Amazon UK had it mixed up with his earlier book of the same name although the later book was totally new. An email to their customer services got it fixed and I got a nice email thanking me for alerting them to the problem.
Posted by: Jeff Eyges | October 21, 2009 5:53 AM
Does anyone know if Ray Comfort has a Green Card?
Don't go there – we don't want him back in New Zealand.
You people are always saying this.
We've had him long enough. Take some responsibility. Besides, your penal system works better than ours does; you're much better at rehabilitating the criminally psychotic.
Posted by: Barak | October 21, 2009 6:14 AM
I have a suggestion:
Imagine an edition of the Bible with a 200 pages foreword by PZ Myers...
Posted by: Copernicus | October 21, 2009 6:39 AM
WTF?
Overnight the reviews have shot from 19 to 48 but the most distressing thing is not the sudden realization by creationists that "we" were haranguing Amazon and writing debunking reviews, but that judging by some of the comments, a lot of "reviewers" (not sure where they got their copy, it's sold out) are giving the book 5 stars with a brief praise for Darwin and the historical importance of text without even realising that Ray Comfort left stuff out or wrote a creationist intro...
This is exactly why "parasite" is the perfect term
This is the product of decades of inadequate or non-existent Science education
Should evolution be taught in schools? Give me a break, not even mammalian reproduction, the "banishment" of Pluto, or the definition of "habitat" get covered, let alone...
Posted by: Lsuoma | October 21, 2009 7:02 AM
@Copper Knickers #84
If you look at the 5* reviews, the link at the very top of each review says:
"This review is from: The Origin Of Species: 150th Anniversary Edition (Paperback)"
and links to the good edition (with the Julian Huxley foreword), so it looks as though the linkage authority between the good and bad editions that was deleted yesterday has somehow become re-established.
I'll follow this up with my buddy at Amazon.com during the daytime in PDT (I may be up here in the UK, but I know he'll be fast asleep).
Posted by: Copernicus | October 21, 2009 7:18 AM
Lsuoma
by "design" I suspect... the only rules governing ethics on their site apply to customers but apparently not to Amazon themselves...
I can undretsand that the publisher, the Bridge-Logos Foundation has an agenda and by rights are entitled to publish whatever they like, however if the original text, even though labelled by Amazon as "abridged", has had entire chapters deleted (morphology and embryology!), re-numbered, and hoisted by his own petard, reflects that Cumfart's statement "The 304-page publication will be Charles Darwin's every word - not one jot nor title will be removed" is bogus (false advertising) then surely Amazon has a duty under the law to properly inform it's customers?
I take back the end of my own Amazon review
but instead write "because it has purposely left out important sections, donate the entire book (cover removed please) to a school, not for their education, but, as we read in some UK schools because of budget cuts, to be used as toilet paper"
Posted by: Gordon
|
October 21, 2009 7:41 AM
I heard from Amazon this morning:
"Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are aware of this incident and our appropriate department is working to sort out issue. The change should go live very soon."
So, that's something.
Posted by: rationalmind | October 21, 2009 8:01 AM
I think the amazon.co.uk site is actually breaking the law.
The latest European Union directive is now in force and translated into UK law. It prevents people being mislead about a product which they clearly are in this case. There are false reviews attached to the Comfort book. Clearly of course this is just an unintentional matter but there is a mechanism for UK amazon users to make complaints to the trading standards department of their local council about this if Amazon.co.uk do not fix it.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | October 21, 2009 8:43 AM
Looks like AMZ is still mixing reviews from the real 150th anniversary paperback.
So, I would say another mail campaign is in order if they think this morning's changes were appropriate.
Posted by: kopd
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October 21, 2009 9:58 AM
The square root of two, after all, is truly evil.
Well, I don't know if it's evil, but it's certainly irrational! *ba-dum*tish*
*crickets*
Sorry. Bad pun. :-\
Posted by: 75movies
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October 21, 2009 9:59 AM
Anyone know a big publisher who will mass print my "And Then Monkey's Flew Out of HIS Butt Bible"?
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 21, 2009 10:57 AM
"Ray Comfort is a parasite"
yes he is...and perfectly evolved to hold a banana!
Although not evolved enough to realise the point!
As is true in all the religiously retarded his intellectual power let him down.
If he has stuck to the biblical script he could have claimed that his sky fairy had deliberately 'created' humans to to take advantage of their ecological niche and not the other way around...cos in his own tacky little pamphlet it trumpets the point that man was created in gods own image...if so it seems he is questioning his own supernatural daddy with regards to who or what was the most important to a deity designing a world...the fauna/flora...or the worshippers..methinks cumfart got it backwards!
And coincidently pointed out that god had to design a fruit to fit his own mitt ...presumably cos the great all knowing poser got his own design wrong!
Talk about a retro-fit...and so much for a perfect dog!
As for tatty publications Amazon should be rather embarrassed with their system, but I supposes their bank does not give a flying Musaceae where profits come from...as long as they come!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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October 21, 2009 11:02 AM
Has anyone read Ray's current post?
Obviously, then, if vitamin K is not produced in sufficient quantities until days five through seven, it would be wise to postpone any surgery until some time after that. So why did God instruct Abraham to perform circumcision on day eight? It was because on the eighth day, the amount of prothrombin present is elevated above one-hundred percent of normal—and is the only day in the male’s life in which this will be the case under normal conditions. It is then that vitamin K and prothrombin levels are at their peak, and scientists didn't discover this until recent years.
Posted by: Copernicus | October 21, 2009 11:03 AM
What seems clear is that a great many reviewers have been caught out- THEY DIDN"T READ THIS EDITION and therefore didn't realise that all they were celebrating has been abridged, omitted, and used as a parasitic host for that creationist foreword.
I have been commenting on all the reviews that were obviously caught out by this disingenuous edition thus:
Posted by: Kim | October 21, 2009 11:05 AM
You can also rate the reveiws as helpful or not. The ones considered most helpful will be at the top of the list. Rating the accurate ones as useful works as well, so you don't need an account.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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October 21, 2009 11:06 AM
blockquote fail. ALL of that should be blockquoted
Posted by: Grant N | October 21, 2009 11:17 AM
Kel @ 10
Abridged version. Add 50 pages of crap up front, cut out 150 pages of essentials in the middle, leave everything that Darwin postulated and got wrong and every statement he made that professed that a designer or a divine source would be the 'common sense' conclusion, but then leave out the refutation of those 'devil's advocate' positions that would immediately follow.
Quote mining to the 'nines'. So much effort. So much waste. That's my current theory. Future scholarly efforts of comparison will either support it or not. I wait for the research.
Posted by: Siamang | October 21, 2009 11:23 AM
"How did Comfort get everything in 304 pages including his creationist screed?"
By removing 4 chapters and Darwin's introduction and the glossary.
I got a copy given to me by a Christian group.
This is the book that Ray falsely claimed would be the entire book "every jot and tittle".
From Ray's blog:
Ray Comfort wrote:
How wonderful that 100,000 students will get a complete copy of Origin of Species with a full color cover.
“The False Convert said…
So this won’t be the abridged version that you’ve been hawking at living waters? Will it include Darwin’s introduction? Will you be restoring Chapters 9, 11, 12 and 13, which your website shows are missing?
Could you please confirm this or admit you’re a admit you’re still lying for Jesus?”
Comfort:
False Convert…the entire book. All of it. Every jot and tittle.
Liar.
So that’s four chapters and an introduction it’s missing, which makes five lies for Ray.
Of course, he’s got the “get out of jail free” card for lying, under his religion. Blood of Christ pays for all lies, so he can lie with impunity.
On page 255 Ray says that the missing chapters can be downloaded at originextra dot com.
Why not download the whole book at literature dot org??!
The chapters he’s missing are:
Chapter 10 – On The Geological Succession of Organic Beings
Chapter 11 – Geographical Distribution
Chapter 12 – Geographical Distribution continued
Chapter 13 – Mutual Affinities of Organic Beings: Morphology: Embryology: Rudimentary Organs
And also the introduction, and the glossary.
But what’s really missing is Ray’s honesty here. You know, if you’re releasing an abridged version, just SAY you are. You know we’re going to catch you on it, ray-ray. Who do you think you’re fooling?
Anyway, it’s isbn 9780882709192, 276 pages. Copyright 2009.
Posted by: Siamang | October 21, 2009 11:35 AM
Looks like it's fixed now:
New title:
Origin of Species: 150th Anniversary Edition [ABRIDGED] (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-Anniversary-Charles-Darwin/dp/0882709194/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256139217&sr=8-1
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 21, 2009 11:35 AM
# 93
Wrong again Ray...present day circumcisions usually occur within the first 48Hrs of birth!
So obviously prothrombin or lack of is not a problem,try again kidda,law of averages and all that, although rational claims do a tad better methinks!
Posted by: mattb | October 21, 2009 11:43 AM
FOLKS THIS AIN'T OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here are my search results:
on the origin of species—third
origin of species—one
origin of species darwin—one
on the origin of species—no listing (50 others but no Comfort)
darwin—third
charles darwin—third
Amazon's Charles Darwin Page—the first book in a series of rows of books by, or on, or related to Darwin
They actually call this the Amazon's Charles Darwin Page. WTF?
http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Darwin/e/B000AQ3LK0/ref=sr_tc_2_0
Also they are still mixing reviews. Comfort's edition should have 1 star. All of the reviews for his book which begin in October are 1 star reviews. A couple 3 star reviews giving some credit to Darwin but dragging it down because of the Comfort intro. All of the good reviews are stolen from past editions. Prior to the October reviews on Comfort, his edition gloms on to the The Origin Of Species: 150th Anniversary Edition (Paperback) edition.
Anyway, keep giving Amazon a wrath of shit because they've earned it.
Posted by: Grant N | October 21, 2009 11:45 AM
Damn! Amazing how research these days speeds along. Pretty soon I'll bet we'll have a cure for all our ails.
Wrong again! It's already here.
Posted by: Copernicus | October 21, 2009 12:15 PM
Rev and Brew:
8 is closest to 9, I believe...!
[Cohen HA, Drucker MM, Vainer S et al: Postcircumcision urinary tract infection. Clin Pediatr (Phila) 1992; 31: 322-324]
Posted by: Copernicus | October 21, 2009 12:20 PM
Or:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 are all less than 8!
[Baniehbal, B: Optimal time for neonatal circumcision: An observation-based study. Journal of Pediatric Urology 2009; 5:5: 359-362]
Posted by: A. Noyd
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October 21, 2009 12:22 PM
I called Penguin, publisher of the edition with the Huxley intro, to let them know Amazon was screwing them out of sales. I don't know how seriously my report was taken by the woman in customer service, so if anyone else wants to pester them to lean on Amazon, the number is: 1-800-631-8571.
They'll probably ask for the ISBN of their edition, which is: 0451529065
Point out that their edition is not coming up at all in searches for Origin of Species or even the full title, The Origin Of Species: 150th Anniversary Edition.
Posted by: Jaban | October 21, 2009 12:33 PM
I e-mailed Amazon about it, noting that (1) the original title does not show up in the search results at all, (2) that the same editorial review and information is being shown for Ray Comfort's version, and (3) that Ray Comfort's book is benefiting from the positive customer reviews attributed to the original title (and vice versa with the negative).
I just got a reply from Amazon support:
Thanks for pointing this out. We've made the appropriate updates in our records and you should see these changes online in 3-7 business days.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap | October 21, 2009 12:40 PM
Thank you A. Noyd. That's brilliant.
I just visited the Amazon site and the page for the abridged version, enhanced with idiocy, is still misleading. There's a glowing "editorial" review with a cryptic statement that it's actually for a paperback version (misleading because it's not a paperback version of the abridged with idiocy added version). So I suggest calling Penguin (which I will do myself) and complaining.
On the good side, there are several reviews showing at the top of the list of reviews that make clear that this is a creationist hack job and not the real origin of species. The only problem that remains is that the reviews fail to mention that the creationist edition is abridged. That only appears in one of the comments. I suggest that we go to this page and click on the "yes" button next to the question "was this review helpful" question. The more reviews that have "yes" votes the higher up on the list they will stay.
I'd love to paste Grant N's post #97 as a review but can not because that would be plagiarism. If s/he cared to do so, I would definitely make another trip back to that page to click on the "Yes" this review was helpful. As it stands the only mention of the missing chapters is in a comment to one of the reviews.
click here for the The abridged with idiocy added version on Amazon.com
Posted by: Siamang | October 21, 2009 12:56 PM
I reviewed it and went into detail about exactly which chapters were missing. That should appear up on the reviews soon.
In the meanwhile, I did post some comments to reviews where I specifically mentioned the cuts. I recommend others do that as well.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap
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October 21, 2009 1:32 PM
I checked again. I saw Siamang's handywork. Also, I saw the following as "suggested tags" based on the most frequent ones given by reviewers (# of reviews given that tag in parens):
creationism(72)
misinformation(71)
fraud(70)
dishonesty(67)
bananaman(50)
intelligent design(49)
liar(46)
ray comfort(33)
comfort(23)
darwin(12)
christianity(7)
Posted by: Steven Mading
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October 21, 2009 1:37 PM
To be fair, I can easily see why the system was designed to work like it did. There's a big problem with doing it the other way around, where every publication of a public domain work is treated as a separate entity to vote on. Doing that unfairly spreads the votes among different editions for what is (usually) the same content.
When people vote "I like Shakespeare's Hamlet", they're not typically saying "I like the fact that this version of Hamlet was published as a half-size paperback with a pretty green cover and used 12 point Helvetica font." They're usually voting on the content inside, which in most cases other than the dishonest Ray Comfort situation, is the same content regardless of which publication of the public domain work it is. It makes sense to merge together the votes for all the different editions of the exact same content. (It's the same principle as is used for the paperback vs hardback copies of the same book).
The problem here is that Ray Comfort's version is signifigantly different and not the exact same content as the public domain work. It's more akin to reading a different translation of a foreign language work. (Which Amazon DOES keep separate. On Amazon, a vote for the King James Bible is NOT merged with a vote for the NIV Bible because the translation work causes the content to be different. However votes for two different publications of the King James Bible that only differ in their printing and not their text content (i.e. they only differ in font, paper type, layout, etc) really SHOULD get merged as votes for the same thing.)
It's a bit of a mess to keep it straight because saying a vote for a work is always only a vote for that one exact publication run of that work is not the right answer either.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 21, 2009 1:47 PM
# 193 & 104
Copernicus Yep! seems Ray got it arse backwards again!
And blood clotting, presumably after blood loss, is not an issue anyway...nor as it seems has it ever been, as in all surgery it is infection that does the damage.
And as reported by your quotes the best time...if it has to be done...is within the first 8 days of birth.
Seems Yahweh got it even more off beam then Ray...holydude needs a 1st year refresher course at a medical school methinks...Yahweh that is not Ray...but then again it might educate the idiot Ray a tad...more likely not though!
If dog is so high and bloody perfect how come he decided that the foreskin was so essential it should be included in the first place?
Then changes his mind after 9 months...that is just sheer incompetence.
Bit of imperfection creeping in to the mix maybe...or just total bollocks to begin with...literally!
From the brief scan I did of various health forums...it seems the most common reason for this barbarity...apart from religious...is so the kid can look like daddy...WTF?
Posted by: Steven Dunlap
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October 21, 2009 1:49 PM
@ Steven Madding # 110
Nicely stated and summarized. Oddly enough, I moderated a panel discussion on this very topic (user-contributed content, not evolution) last night and much the same issues came up.
The one issue that I wanted to point out is that "It's a bit of mess" in this particular instance for all the reasons in your post but also because Ray Comfort lies like a rug. The Amazon system and others like it depend on intellectual honesty to function "properly." Otherwise: garbage in - garbage out.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 21, 2009 1:50 PM
#111...Sorry typo should read....# 103 & 104
Posted by: Holly Nisley | October 21, 2009 2:06 PM
I did not read thru these comments so forgive me if I am repeating someone else. I immediately went to the Amazon site and noticed many of us submitted a rating to attempt to clear up the confusion. I wrote Amazon letting them know of the issue and here was there response:
Hello,
I'm sorry for the frustration and concern regarding the two separate books of Charles Darwin's “The Origins of Species” being linked together on the Amazon.com web site.
Thanks for pointing this out. I've forwarded your suggestion to the appropriate department in our company for further consideration. If it's determined that they should not be linked in our database, you'll see these changes online in 3-7 business days.
If you have not already, contact Amazon's customer care.
Posted by: Drew | October 21, 2009 3:52 PM
If anyone lives near Huntington beach California. Ray Comfort hangs out at a pier street-preaching on Saturdays. Shall we all pick a day to go down and chat with him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeGE24W9Fdc&feature=related
Posted by: tigerhawkvok.myopenid.com
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October 21, 2009 4:13 PM
Amazon kind of has a mechanism for this: At the bottom of the page, there is a link to update product information. I suggest:
--------------
Title: Origin of Species: Revised 150th Anniversary Edition (Way of the Master, Revised)
Change authors to:
Author 1: Ray Comfort
Function: Author
Author 2: Charles Darwin
Function: Contributor
Edition: Revised
Reference URL: http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=393&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=199&lang=en
---------------
Spamming Amazon with these revisions should get some attention, and should also delink it with the real 150th anniversary edition.
Posted by: Siamang | October 21, 2009 4:36 PM
"If anyone lives near Huntington beach California. Ray Comfort hangs out at a pier street-preaching on Saturdays. Shall we all pick a day to go down and chat with him?"
If you do that, make sure you print out the discussion from his website where he promised that "every jot and tittle" of OtOoS would be in his edition, despite being specifically asked if those chapters would be cut.
Then ask him "have you ever told a lie?"
"What does that make you?"
"Why should I listen to a liar?"
Posted by: phantomreader42 | October 21, 2009 4:41 PM
Should be tagged to include "lying for jesus", "banana fetish", "theft by deception", "worship of ignorance", "total lack of integrity", and "who would jesus rip off".
Posted by: send back the peewee kiwi NOW | October 21, 2009 6:16 PM
At least the 'Frequently Bought Together' section lists "The God Delusion" and "The Greatest Show on Earth" as companion books to purchase :)
Posted by: A. Noyd
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October 21, 2009 7:50 PM
The reviews are separated again, but the edition with the Huxley intro still won't show up properly when you try to search for it. Or show up at all if you just search for Origin of Species. And Ray's retarded edition is still at the top.
Posted by: DLC
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October 22, 2009 2:03 AM
I really don't understand how Ray-Ray and Kirk can lie like they do and still live with it. It's been shoved in their face so many times that so much of what they present as fact is actually not fact nor even close to factual, that they must know by now that they're lying. So, how is it they have not even the slightest qualms about what they do ? Is it really taught to them that it is fine to lie so long as the net result is more people believing in the unbelievable ?
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 22, 2009 6:29 AM
#121
". So, how is it they have not even the slightest qualms about what they do ? Is it really taught to them that it is fine to lie so long as the net result is more people believing in the unbelievable ?"
Yes absolutely...Lying is even allowed in the bible several times and gets a wink wink nod nod from Yahweh!
The flavour being that lies for jeebus are fine and dandy and for the greater good!
Of course the greater good is for the benefit of either the fairy story or the good of the mouthpieces that are playing the audience.
A point which is not lost on the majority of godbots.
The problem they have is that they have to lie to disseminate their delusion...and they do...franticly and often.
Even though the inane claims of bananaman and his ilk have been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked time and time again...the claims are repeated not to gain converts...although a handy ramification...but to keep the memes the lies and the distortions in the minds and thoughts of the already afflicted because they are the ones who are incapable of questioning the points..and even if they were capable would not!
Inconsistencies and logical fallacies are blithely ignored with fingers in the ears and loud lah lahing!
That is the reason that every generation of godbots keep on repeating the memes the lies and the distortions
ad-infinitum.
Maybe the fools think that repeating the nonsense over and over will somehow make it come true.
Methinks they will have a long time to wait...never mind maybe jeebus will reappear in the meantime!
Posted by: Marnie | October 22, 2009 11:17 AM
Amazon wrote me back with a nice little form letter saying they'd fix the problem in the next couple of days
http://twitpic.com/mh4b0
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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October 22, 2009 11:52 AM
It appears to be fixed.
Posted by: Reynold | October 22, 2009 2:30 PM
Well, Siamang I've posted what you said over on Comfort's blog. We'll see how long it stays up.
Posted by: Russ Painter | October 22, 2009 2:57 PM
All better now. Down to one star where it belongs. And I love that someone tagged it "Turd Sandwich".
Posted by: Reynold | October 22, 2009 6:29 PM
Well, according to Ray, he's dealt with the missing chapters.
Dave...Sure. The first printing of 30,000 was an abridged edition. It was abridged because it was too many pages (too expensive) for a giveaway. In the book, we explained that the removed chapters could be downloaded freely online at www.originextra.com
The second print of 175,000 (which has just come off the press) was the complete book--that's the one that will go to students. Nothing is missing from the original book. Not a dot. Thanks for asking. I appreciate it. Best wishes.
Not a dot? Isn't there a glossary still? At least he's put up the four missing chapters...
Posted by: magistramorous | October 23, 2009 5:53 AM
My atheist organization (the San Diego New Atheists) has gotten in touch with Michael Shermer and, with his help, we plan on distributing his "How to Debate a Creationist" booklet locally (SDSU, UCSD). If any of you have the time, talk to people in your own area and see if you can organize talks, pass out booklets and flyers, etc. to help combat this problem.
Posted by: John Morales | October 23, 2009 6:06 AM
magistramorous, I hope your booklet is better phrased than your post, because by "this problem" you seem to refer to "we plan on distributing his "How to Debate a Creationist" booklet locally", which can't be your intent.
Posted by: magistramorous | October 23, 2009 6:29 AM
Right, I hit "stop," but by then it was too late. It should read "the Ray Comfort problem." Besides, it's Michael Shermer's carefully-edited booklet and not a printout of a blog post that I'll be handing out. :)
Posted by: John Morales | October 23, 2009 7:42 AM
magistramorous, no worries, just teasing.
Good luck!
Posted by: Copernicus | October 25, 2009 4:29 PM
Bloody Amazon!
I attempted to post a review 5 days ago but with no success and yesterday I finally received their emailed response... but first, the review (unashamedly borrowing PZ's blog title "Ray Comfort is a Parasite""
after a back and forth with Amazon, this was their response:
WTF? Isn't a review supposed to be a critical evaluation? And are they saying that Ray Comfort's dishonest intention of his own should not be called out? Or is it because Amazon so totally got taken (they didn't even add the word "abridged" until after our noise here), mangled the reviews, failed to separate the differing editions, but are happy to sit upon the noise as "any PR is better than none at all"?
Posted by: Takis Konstantopoulos | November 22, 2009 6:00 AM
Here is another response to Comfort's idiocy. I'm afraid not a "serious" one though.
Posted by: Max | December 5, 2009 3:20 AM
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth..For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Posted by: Rick R | December 5, 2009 3:41 AM
OK, who farted?