Pharyngula

Posted by: Greg Laden | October 31, 2009 9:08 PM

Is that a Squid tie????? Cool.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | October 31, 2009 9:10 PM

Is that a Squid tie?????

Is that an insider joke...?

At the risk of ruining it: it's the crocoduck tie.

Posted by: Jackalope | October 31, 2009 9:15 PM

The woman is Eugenie Scott, head of the National Center for Science Education.

Posted by: rickflick | October 31, 2009 9:19 PM

mmmm...most of them have beards. Some dominant eugenie at work?

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | October 31, 2009 9:29 PM

Its Michael Ruse, my homies... PZ is an accomodater!

Just kidding. This is why I love academics. We can argue bitterly in press and still drink the health of our enemies (and anything else that is in sight).

Posted by: skeetar | October 31, 2009 10:03 PM

Eugenie signed a copy of the new edition of her book for me at DragonCon. It was the highlight of my life so far.

Posted by: SciencePundit | October 31, 2009 10:12 PM

Damn! I screwed up the blockquote on my last comment. It shoud be prefaced by this:

How long will it take before Chris Mooney spins this picture and claims PZ as an accomodationist?

*sigh*

Posted by: Jerry Coyne | October 31, 2009 10:22 PM

P.Z. was drunk, and I'll furnish photographic proof of that tomorrow. That's the only way he'd put his arm around Michael Ruse, you know.

Posted by: Romeo Vitelli | October 31, 2009 11:03 PM

"What did you think, I'd strip half-naked, paint myself blue, and start swinging a broadsword?"

If you ever do, could you make sure it's recorded for posterity on YouTube?

Posted by: mythusmage | October 31, 2009 11:34 PM

Considering your ethnicity, swinging a battle axe and waving a drinking horn would be more like it.

Posted by: Marcie | October 31, 2009 11:40 PM

I love your tie!

Posted by: Kel, OM | October 31, 2009 11:46 PM

P.Z. was drunk, and I'll furnish photographic proof of that tomorrow. That's the only way he'd put his arm around Michael Ruse, you know.

the real challenge will be to get Richard Dawkins to put his arm around Michael Ruse.

Posted by: recovering catholic | November 1, 2009 12:07 AM

articulette--thanks for the link to the tiktaalik song! But why did they only reconstruct half his body? That looks kind of strange.

Posted by: hallucigenia | November 1, 2009 1:09 AM

Sure, it's great that we can criticize one another's work and ideas and then have a beer afterwards. But if you're going to call someone an 'ignorant gobshite' and breathe fire from the safety of your blog, I think you should be able to express those opinions when you meet that person face-to-face. And don't fall back on mere politeness, because something that's impolite to say in person is just as impolite when said on a blog.

PZ, given all the posturing you've done on this blog about Ruse, I'm pretty disappointed that you didn't have the guts to confront him a) last night when you had drinks before dinner, b) this morning when you were sitting with him and Dan Dennett at a table in the coffee room, or c) this afternoon when you were chatting with him after his talk. Because from where I'm sitting, it makes you look like a coward.

Trust me--Michael could have taken it. And he would have given back plenty, too. Or is that what you were afraid of?

Posted by: aratina cage | November 1, 2009 2:22 AM

Trust me--Michael could have taken it. And he would have given back plenty, too. Or is that what you were afraid of?

Ruse knows about being called a "gobshite". And it didn't come out of the blue, either. Ruse earned the term "gobshite" for conflating atheism with religion, for helping Dembski push his ID quackery, for advocating that science bow to religious beliefs in the classroom, and for mentally going somewhere over the rainbow while in the Creation "Museum". However, that doesn't mean PZ needs to rub Ruse's face in it whenever they meet or that PZ should be bitter towards the guy in person.

What you are calling for (standing up to the man) has a time and place for its doing, and this conference was not the time or the place. Ruse apparently didn't even mention any of his old religion vs. the New Atheists bullshit during his presentation. For Spam's sake, hallucigenia, it would be like you calling PZ a coward every time you met him regardless of the circumstances — you'd likely never get to know him personally doing that. Try a little harder to differentiate blogging from socializing.

Posted by: Sili | November 1, 2009 4:56 AM

I hadn't noticed the resemblance, but I guess this means that Shubin should star as the Demiurge together with mr Deity.

I'm sorry, Shubin, I know I criticised your tie, but that's no excuse for dressing down.

Sanity Jane,
Now you have me wondering how often Genie gets that one.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | November 1, 2009 4:58 AM

What did you think, I'd strip half-naked, paint myself blue, and start swinging a broadsword?

..now if I could kindly ask you to scream "Freeeeeedooooommmm" that there is pretty much my ultimate fanstasy.

(apologies to the Trophy Wife if this oversteps the mark)

Posted by: dutchdoc | November 1, 2009 8:59 AM

P.Z. was drunk, and I'll furnish photographic proof of that tomorrow. That's the only way he'd put his arm around Michael Ruse, you know.

Since Michael Ruse has HIS around PZ as well, may we infer from that, that Mr. Ruse was drunk as well?

And isn't there a thing to say for being 'Pretty Zonked' at occasions like these? Just so that we all can get along better?

Posted by: JackC | November 1, 2009 10:03 AM

What was I supposed to do? Raise my hand after a talk about Darwin and start hammering him about his issues with Dawkins? That would have been weird and obsessive and nutty.

One of the best things our our "way" - such as it is - Compartmentalization.

I'll furnish photographic proof of that tomorrow.

By my watch, it is November already. I demand you show your evidence.

Actually, no, I really don't. It probably would be superfluous, since that second shot pretty much shows his hand wrapped around something I presume is not a weapon.

JC

Posted by: blf | November 1, 2009 10:47 AM

What did you think, I'd strip half-naked, paint myself blue, and start swinging a broadsword?

Ah! So that was you trick-or-giggling last night…

p.s. The giggles kindof ruined the effect.

p.p.s. A few more decapitated cats would have helped.

Posted by: Matt Penfold | November 1, 2009 11:08 AM

Seriously, though -- isn't this what we want? To argue mightily about the ideas when necessary, but not let it degenerate into personal quarrels?

It is worth quoting Salman Rushdie here, from his essay Defend the right to be offended.

At Cambridge University I was taught a laudable method of argument: you never personalise, but you have absolutely no respect for people’s opinions. You are never rude to the person, but you can be savagely rude about what the person thinks. That seems to me a crucial distinction: people must be protected from discrimination by virtue of their race, but you cannot ring-fence their ideas. The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it’s a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible.

Posted by: Ophelia Benson | November 1, 2009 2:03 PM

Ha - Matt - since you've mentioned you're currently reading Why Truth Matters - I bet that's where you found that Salman Rushdie passage! Am I right?

If so I'm pleased to be the source. It's a good'un.

Posted by: hallucigenia | November 1, 2009 4:24 PM

Let be me be a little clearer about what I meant: I was not suggesting that PZ should have gone up to Ruse and started screaming angrily in his face. That would be, at the very least, a good way not to get invited to future conferences.

However, after spilling much venom and ire towards Ruse on this blog, I'd have expected him to have availed himself of opportunities to discuss with Ruse some of his points of disagreement. To say he was too busy with other things is simply disingenuous. The conference was split between two rooms: an auditorium downstairs for science talks and a lecture hall upstairs for history/philosophy talks. The one and only time I ever saw PZ upstairs was for Ruse's presentation (although I may have missed him at one of the others). So something brought PZ upstairs to see Ruse--what was it? Well, the beginning of the blog post on Ruse's talk informs us that PZ couldn't pass up an opportunity to see Ruse 'gibbering.' Clearly, he came to Ruse's talk expecting/hoping that Ruse was going to say something objectionable that he could blog about.

So PZ was looking for an opportunity to be confrontational with Ruse, he just wasn't interested in a confrontation where his opponent actually had the opportunity to say something back to him. PZ seems to be much, much more comfortable inside his protective internet bubble or surrounded by sycophants and fanbois than he is mixing it up in the real world. That is the lesson I learned from observing him at the meeting this weekend. And that is why I called him a coward.

Salman Rushdie is obviously no coward, and I'm sure he wasn't advocating reserving strong criticism only for remote exchanges in print (or on blogs). And be honest--whether deserved or not, PZ has many times gone well beyond criticizing Ruse's 'ideas' and criticized him quite personally. I could dredge up some examples but you can do it yourself just as easily with a quick search. There is nothing 'honorable' about chucking rocks at someone from behind a protective shield and then tucking your tail between your legs when confronted with the person face-to-face.

Someone with the guts to voice criticism and disagreement in an open, honest conversation is someone worth having a beer with afterwards. Someone like PZ, whose courage extends only as far as his wi-fi connection, simply isn't worth bothering with--which, incidentally, is why hardly anyone of importance in biology is interested in what he says.

Posted by: Lion IRC | November 1, 2009 8:14 PM

Meeting people at a meeting. Nice tautology.
Were they theists who believe in God?
Lion (IRC)

Posted by: 'Tis Himself | November 1, 2009 8:17 PM

Lyin' Irk has decided to enter the realm of the non sequitur.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 1, 2009 8:27 PM

Still Lyin' Lion has nothing cogent to say. Silence is his only refuge...

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 1, 2009 8:35 PM

PZ seems to be much, much more comfortable inside his protective internet bubble or surrounded by sycophants and fanbois than he is mixing it up in the real world.

He probably is. *shrug*
He might have other qualities that make him beer-with-worthy, though.

Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | November 2, 2009 2:15 AM

Meeting people at a meeting. Nice tautology.

On my entry to this blog, I saw Lion IRC's entry. I took careful notice of his notice before I replied. I was also struck dumb by how dumb it was. I'd really like to see the look on his face if he were to look in a dictionary. Most words mean more than one thing, after all, although Lion IRC may think I'm mean to point this out.

Posted by: Rey Fox | November 2, 2009 2:55 AM

"which part of "there is a time and place for every personal confrontational debate" do you not understand?"

Probably the part that doesn't allow him to be an Internet Tough Guy.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 2, 2009 7:29 AM

A small point: If you are going to come out painted blue and swinging, I recommend a claymore over a broad sword. One nerd to another.

Posted by: Leon | November 2, 2009 3:31 PM

Swinging a broadsword would be cool, at least!