…and this is a 
So why is the University of Edinburgh Christian Union pushing to have Bibles put in the students' rooms? It seems like a slippery slope to me—before you know it, they'll have verses emblazoned on the caber, you won't be able to dive into your haggis without reciting a prayer, and they'll be replacing the whiskey with wine.
It's an interesting case of the tyranny of the majority. The Christians are writing this proposal, consciously making it inclusive and saying that any group can take advantage of it and stuff student rooms with their literature…while knowing full well that only the Christian Union is large enough, and backed by large international organizations dedicated to pushing religious propaganda, to be able to take advantage of the rule. Sneaky little gits.
It is a good sign, though, that other students are speaking out ferociously against the idea. That probably wouldn't have happened in my generation.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: flashbaby | November 6, 2009 3:18 PM
no true scotsman dinks whiskey
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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November 6, 2009 3:20 PM
So you insist that students buy their own paper for their joints?
Not very charitable, seems to me.
I would prefer that the Bibles be required to come with a least a little bit of smokable substance, preferably weed.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: flashbaby | November 6, 2009 3:21 PM
no true scotsman drinks whiskey is better
Posted by: Holytape | November 6, 2009 3:24 PM
Sure they could use the pages to roll their own joints, but these are college students where is the ingenuity? Now a bible-shaped water bong would be a challenge.
Don't play with fire
Posted by: crewvy | November 6, 2009 3:26 PM
Bibles always come in handy if you run out of toilet tissue.
Of course the students could write their own introduction and insert it into these sacred tomes.
Posted by: Steve | November 6, 2009 3:27 PM
Everyone I know already recites a prayer before eating haggis. Granted, it's usually of the "Dear Lord! What the hell's THAT! My God, I hope I survive this!" But it's heartfelt and sincere nonetheless.
Posted by: Desert Son
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November 6, 2009 3:27 PM
Make my whisky* a Talisker 12 year, please. Or a MacAllan 18 year. Or Oban. Oban's good, too. Balvenie Doublewood is nice. Put me down for several of those.
I'll be in the bar. Probably on the floor.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
*Scottish spelling
Posted by: NoAstronomer | November 6, 2009 3:29 PM
Posted by: Desert Son
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November 6, 2009 3:35 PM
When I had haggis I found it a not unpleasant taste/meal. It was quite salty, and not necessarily the kind of thing I'd seek out on a regular basis, but it wasn't unpalatable. The 'neeps (rutabagas/turnips) were the least pleasant part of the meal, I found.
Of course, at this particular Burns supper, we were all several glasses of whisky into the evening by the time the haggis arrived, so it's possible - just possible, mind - that our taste buds were somewhat . . . muted.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: KemaTheAtheist | November 6, 2009 3:35 PM
The smart pot-smokers (I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but it's not) would glue the pages together and hollow out the middle to store their weed. The Christian staff would never suspect it.
A hollowed out cross on the wall works the same way... right side up you put your weed in, turn it upside down and the weed falls out.
And if they go to touch it they can yell for the person to not touch their religious objects because otherwise it offends them.
I just had a fantastic book idea: "101 uses for the Bible." It's like the duct tape one, but for the Bible.
1.) Toilet Paper
2.) Joint Paper
3.) Weed storage
What else do other people have?
Posted by: daveau
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November 6, 2009 3:36 PM
I'm with Desert Son on the Talisker. Or pretty much any island whisky.
Posted by: Jason Spaceman | November 6, 2009 3:36 PM
More than 5,600 people sign petition in favor of creationism.
Posted by: Desert Son
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November 6, 2009 3:39 PM
4.) Doorstop
5.) Table/chair leg shim
6.) Paperweight
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: kopd | November 6, 2009 3:40 PM
they'll be replacing the whiskey with wine.
That's the part that really scares me. Well, not really. But if they try to touch my beer then they'll soon find out if their god is protecting them. ;-)
(obligatory emoticon for those who would suggest I'm either a violent person or an alcoholic for making that statement [/disclamer])
Posted by: Screechy Monkey | November 6, 2009 3:41 PM
I find it hilarious that the Christian Union thinks this will be productive for them. What are the chances that a non-Christian university student will bother to read the thing only because it's in his or her room, and rather than recoiling in disgust or collapsing in laughter (the more common reactions of non-Christians, and even many Christians, to reading the thing), instead convert?
I think the more likely reaction is revealed by the following excerpt from the linked article: "there are legends that when Gideon were allowed to place their Bibles in the rooms, it resulted in them being thrown out the window, torn to pieces or even in some cases burnt."
Of course, if that happens again, the Christian Union will scream persecution that people dared to mistreat a book that was placed in their room against their wishes.
Posted by: Donalbain | November 6, 2009 3:41 PM
Majority? Really?
You think the Christian Union represents the majority at the University of Edinburgh?
Sorry, back now. I just finished laughing. I will guarantee you that the rugby club will have more members. Hell, the D&D club will probably have more members.
Posted by: Mike | November 6, 2009 3:42 PM
Perhaps some beneficent individual would be willing to provide copies of The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for every student's room as well?
Posted by: KemaTheAtheist | November 6, 2009 3:45 PM
7.) Pet chew-toy
8.) Pet diciplinary implement
9.) Horror stories for kids
10.) Tissue paper (if it's good enough for shit, it's good enough for snot too I think)
Posted by: daveau
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November 6, 2009 3:46 PM
7. unaerodynamic frisbee
8. doggie chew toy
Posted by: arekkusu | November 6, 2009 3:46 PM
The Edinburgh Universities' Christian Unions are hardly a majority.
In fact, you might say they're somewhat on the fringe (ahem).
Posted by: Brian Tani | November 6, 2009 3:47 PM
Incidentally that's exactly how the Catholic Church pushed the Concordat with the Brazilian Government. I feel ashamed, because it's all but approved. Not much we can do now...
The legal right to teach "any" religion in school as a optional curriculum. Blerg... it's such a blatant abuse of our constitution that it's ridiculous.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0101-73302009000200013
Posted by: kopd | November 6, 2009 3:48 PM
What else do other people have?
17. Spider smasher
45. Lifetime supply of bookmarks
63. Object of the fun hotel room game "Hide the Bible"
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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November 6, 2009 3:49 PM
In Scotland they drink whisky.
Posted by: speedwell | November 6, 2009 3:50 PM
When my work team got together in Aberdeen last April, my boss (who offices there) took us out to try haggis our second evening. Not sure why, all of us non-Scots thought it was the greatest damn thing since foie gras with truffles. Almost every dinner after that, he posed the question, "D'you guys want haggis AGAIN, or can I take you someplace decent to eat?" About half the time, the answer was haggis. Heh.
(... When you decide what a true Scotsman is, Speedwell wants one...)
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM
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November 6, 2009 3:51 PM
..just checked Mr Shrek's sporran ( and no folks, that is NOT a euphimism, he does have one- digustingly made of seal)and there's definitely no bible there. Only a 20 cent piece, a swizzle stick and a 6 week overdue parking ticket that the bastard now has some explaining to do on.
Posted by: strangest brew | November 6, 2009 3:51 PM
"101 uses for the Bible."
Wedging the bog door open to allow ventilation...
Blocking the bed/table up to make it level/stop rocking...
Throwing at the inevitable Jehovah's witnesses that wake you up at the stroke of midday after a heavy night of heavy indulgence for research purposes and finishing that essay off!
Throwing at the mating cats down the back alley...
Throwing at room mate for snoring...
Chopping block in kitchen...
Emergency bog paper...
even regular bog paper...
Rizla equivalent...
Fire starter.
That's me out...
Posted by: Alyson Miers
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November 6, 2009 3:52 PM
13. Kindling
14. Origami practice
15. booze storage
16. wrapping paper
17. geometric straight edge
Posted by: Yarcofin | November 6, 2009 3:56 PM
Are the bibles gifts to the students, or do they have to be there at the end of the year in the same condition you found them? Makes a good coaster at least, then there all the news stories about people's moms catching them rolling joints from the bible.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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November 6, 2009 3:56 PM
Bride of Shrek OM #25
Perhaps you should check the sporran a bit more frequently. You never know when he might be sneaking a Bible into the house.
Posted by: Desert Son
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November 6, 2009 3:56 PM
GEAS, it was called, when I was there: Grand Edinburgh Adventuring Society. Wonder if it's still there?
It's membership was considerable, at least at the meetings I attended.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: RagingBullwinkle
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November 6, 2009 4:00 PM
I'll never use Scotch tape again.
Posted by: God Retardent | November 6, 2009 4:00 PM
Trouble is, you're thinking with your dip stick PZ,
You know all is fair game when it comes to Senior, Junior, and the Spook.
Posted by: Desert Son
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November 6, 2009 4:03 PM
"Its," fer cryin' out loud. "Its membership was considerable."
Barkeep! Another dram!
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: JBlilie | November 6, 2009 4:08 PM
Desert Son: I like your whisky choices. I am partial to Oban (when I can afford it ...)
Posted by: Brian P | November 6, 2009 4:09 PM
@ #16 and #30
As a graduate of Edinburgh University and former GEAS member I can tell you that the roleplaying club certainly appeared to be larger than the Christian Union in the late 90's. We also used to have our Sunday session in Teviot row union at the same time as, and in the room next door to, the Christian Union Choir.
Led to some pretty hilarious conversations in the pub afterwards ;)
Posted by: JBlilie | November 6, 2009 4:10 PM
Whenever I hear that old question "give me a word that rhymes with "orange," I reply: "the plural of sporran: 'sporrans'."
Posted by: Philbert | November 6, 2009 4:11 PM
When I was at Glasgow University, we used the Gideon bibles to prop open the sash windows.
Posted by: Julius | November 6, 2009 4:11 PM
Slightly off-topic (well, more like background) - Christian Unions at UK universities are generally one of the largest student societies/groups on campus because they try to position themselves as, well, Christian Unions - all fluffy and inclusive and non-denominational. I suspect most moderate-Christian members stop being very active once they work out that the organisation is actually hardcore evangelical, though. They're affiliated to and backed by a somewhat sinister (and well-funded) group called the UCCF (google it) that seems to encourage/enforce this ruse of appearing moderate and inclusive even though they're not.
This is what I've gleaned from when my university (Exeter) had some interesting issues with its CU, including forcing the group to rename itself the ECU (Evangelical Christian Union) and some discrimination issues - one of the rules imposed by the UCCF is that to join the committee of a local Christian Union, one *has* to sign a "doctrinal basis" statement that is undeniably evangelical. This, of course, is *not* allowed by the rules of pretty much any students' union in the country. The CU tried to twist this to make themselves look like an oppressed minority (as Christians do); at one point IIRC there was even talk of suing the *entire* student body for discrimination.
Oh, and once all that had settled down a bit, they brought in a motion at a students' union AGM to change the rules so they *would* be allowed to discriminate again, and among other things argued that other groups might want to discriminate too - e.g. the Catholic Society, the Anglican Society or indeed LGBT. They were pretty much laughed out of the room, and this meeting got the largest turnout of a union AGM *ever*. Most people had turned up just to vote down that suggestion.
Posted by: JBlilie | November 6, 2009 4:14 PM
Desert Son: I miss "No kings" !!
Posted by: Bing | November 6, 2009 4:15 PM
I suppose I could keep a bible in my sporran, it's big enough. And then I could say things like, "My badger ate that bible!"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13594825@N08/3993661321/
Posted by: count-01
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November 6, 2009 4:16 PM
Has no one else seen a Western? or a gangster film? Bibles are nearly the perfect size for a holstering a .45 or a Colt Navy revolver.
Posted by: Desert Son
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November 6, 2009 4:17 PM
daveau and JBlilie,
Thanks. Yeah, I do tend to make a bottle last, partially because of the cost, partially because I nae canna drink as afore!
Which is probably for the best.
Sláinte!
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: dave souza
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November 6, 2009 4:18 PM
Obligatory prayer when diving into haggis, neeps, tatties..
Some hae meat that canna eat,
And some wad eat that want it;
But we hae meat,
and we can eat,
And sae the Lord be thankit.
Lord Cthulhu presumably.
Or on at least one day of the year,
Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o' the Puddin-race!
Aboon them a' ye tak your place,
Painch, tripe, or thairm: ...
and so on.
Of course, if it's a cairry-oot haggis puddin' supper (take-away haggis and chips) no words needed. Eat while it's hot.
Posted by: Roy | November 6, 2009 4:20 PM
18. Excuse to kill my neighbors in cold blood.
What? I thought that's the point of half those stories.
Posted by: daveau
|
November 6, 2009 4:24 PM
Roy@44
You are a dark one...
Posted by: JimNorth | November 6, 2009 4:27 PM
Wouldn't a hollowed-out bible make the perfect haggis storage?
Posted by: Arkady | November 6, 2009 4:29 PM
The vast majority of halls-of-residence in the UK have internet access, so a student who felt an urgent need to read the bible could easily find it online. Several friends of mine tracked down an audio copy of Revelations and we sat and listened to it, completely sober and sniggering at the glorious silliness. The general agreement was that it sounded like a drug trip.
The CU at my uni handed out bibles at the Freshers Fair too, i used mine as a doorstop for about a year until I lost it. All i can see this attempt to forcibly hand out bibles doing is starting a competition to see who can desecrate it the best >:-)
I wonder if the uni Green society would have anything to say about this? If any group can shove their literature into peoples' private rooms, then surely this would result in a lot of it being chucked out....
Posted by: eddie | November 6, 2009 4:34 PM
Edinburgh, the colonial capital of scotLand, has always been a centre of infamy and disgrace. Good geology tho. Whisky with an 'e' is an abomination unto nature. I mean, really, some people take it with coffee and cream! As for haggis, it is better, in my not so humble opinion, that foie gras and truffles. Who eeds to torture their food to thin it good?
Posted by: Peter Ashby | November 6, 2009 4:34 PM
I adore haggis, living as we do in Scotland it is commonly available from any supermarket. Though I would steer clear of the conceptually difficult 'vegetarian haggis', the result of that is truly nasty. I like my bashed neeps too, though they do need a nob of butter and a good helping of pepper after mashing.
BTW a true Scotsman pours a dram of whisky over his haggis prior to consumption.
I'll join in to help drink that bottle of Talisker too, a rare as hen's teeth 16yo Lagavulin wouldn't go amiss either. Haggis is, or damn well should be, spicy enough that you really need an islander* to stand up to it, a Speysider or Lowlander will not do and only some Highlanders would.
*A peated one, the unpeated Caol Ila while a wonderful dram is not appropriate.
Posted by: Desert Son
|
November 6, 2009 4:35 PM
JBlilie,
Fair enough. I've actually been thinking of changing it for a while now.
I used to read Salon.com, because I liked King Kaufman's sports column, but mostly for Glenn Greenwald's Unclaimed Territory, which was excellent. I used the "No kings," close because, at the time, the discussions were focused on the Bush administration, and what I saw in that administration was like a monarchy: Bush at the center, either clever king or dolt, but a rule by fiat nonetheless; Cheney as éminence grise; a court of various other advisers and ministers (Rumsfeld on war, Ashcroft as secret police, etc.). It was an over-simplification, but as a metaphor that fed into a sentiment to sign my posts, I felt it worked.
It's been a long time since I started posting there; I've been wrestling with the idea of changing it for a while, not only because of the administration change (which is not to say that the problems in government have magically cleared up; I really like democracy, and I haven't been convinced of a better system yet, but I freely admit even the best democracies have problems), but also because of some recent discussions right here on Pharyngula.
I'm not switching because I've suddenly reversed my stance and now support the idea of monarchy. I just felt like maybe it was time for a change. Rorschach changed his handle (Rorschach being the newer one, that is); I think Ol'Greg did, too, but I may be mistaken on that. Other folks have juggled some different names and so forth. So, I'll have the construction sign up for a bit, and then hope to introduce something new as a sign off for a while.
It's me, though. I'm here. Thanks for your thoughts.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: JJR | November 6, 2009 4:35 PM
I have a budget sporran, so I could only manage to fit a smallish New Testament in mine, but a more effective use of the space is for my car keys, my debit card, my driver's license and a small wad of cash.
I still have my leather-bound confirmation Bible (NIV, I think) embossed with my name I got from when I was attending the Presbyterian in my neighborhood. Even back then I didn't really believe, I was just going through the motions and saying what the adults expected me to say.
I was smart-assed enough to ask what they'd do if I said "no" at any one point. They said the church elders would have to convene a meeting to discuss the issue. I smiled and said "ok" and played along like a good boy.
I also have a Luther bible in German, a French bible, the Santa Biblia (in Spanish), and even a Russian bible, as well as a bilingual Russian Hebrew bible (Russian one side/Hebrew on the other). Sometimes interesting to compare how certain passages are rendered in each vernacular tongue.
Anyway, the Christian Union at Edinburgh University are bollocks and should piss off.
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 6, 2009 4:36 PM
I'm for it. If more people actually read the Bible, there would be fewer Christians. People who have the Bible read to them are subject to cherry-picking of the nice sounding parts by the reader. Pick it up yourself, and you will find all the crazy shenanigans that the Christians aren't proud of. Since when did reading a book ever hurt a student?
Posted by: Stewart Cowan | November 6, 2009 4:39 PM
"It's an interesting case of the tyranny of the majority."
So it is, PZ. You're just so discriminated against, what with having to share the planet with other people!
You'll no doubt be glad to know that Scotland (I am Scottish) has never been so spiritually dead. That's why we have so many social problems, like suicide, drug-addiction, mental illness, divorce and violence. If you're so clever, why won't you realise that people's spiritual needs are as important as (if not more so than) their physical requirements?
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 6, 2009 4:42 PM
Stewart is here. Its on!
Posted by: daveau
|
November 6, 2009 4:43 PM
Peter Ashby@49, et al.
It's that peat taste I really love. Just the smell of it brings me back to Scotland instantly. Isle of Jura is going to far though. Love Talisker 18, but can't find it anywhere anymore. Settle for 10.
I quite liked my haggis with taddies and neeps.
We stayed at one place at Loch Lomond, where they put whisky in the oatmeal. I should have tried it, but it was only our first full day and I was having enough difficulty driving on the left side of the road. No place else ever offered it.
Posted by: Sili
|
November 6, 2009 4:44 PM
Yeah, evangelising gits.
If they were serious they'd get the Gideons to give the CU a bunch of bible for people to pick up if they wanted them. Much less waste that way.
No surprise that that apparently didn't cross their minds, really.
Posted by: Steve | November 6, 2009 4:47 PM
Perhaps we could find some friendly organization to donate a copy of the Origin of Species for every room? Or maybe better yet the God Delusion.
Posted by: Stewart Cowan | November 6, 2009 4:51 PM
Steve's got the idea. Live and let live. Allow people to gain a wider appreciation of other points of view, not always be trying to prevent people from reading stuff that you don't personally want to read.
BTW, I'm reading the "God Delusion" at the moment.
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 6, 2009 5:01 PM
@Stewart-- That's funny. I'm reading the New Testament.
Posted by: Stewart Cowan | November 6, 2009 5:04 PM
Antiochus, may we both be enlightened!
Posted by: Desert Son
|
November 6, 2009 5:05 PM
daveau, JBlilie, Peter Ashby,
I've got a Talisker 175th anniversary whisky bottled in 2005, approx. 500 ml left. It was a gift from an old and dear friend when I departed Chicago, and was given to me with love, but under condition that I only drink it in company.
If you all ever make it to Austin, let me know, and I'd be happy to pour a few drams.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: daveau
|
November 6, 2009 5:10 PM
Robert-
I thought you were in Chicago until recently. I have an unopened bottle of the same, waiting for a worthy occasion. Please let me know if you ever come back to visit.
Posted by: Desert Son
|
November 6, 2009 5:18 PM
daveau,
Thanks, indeed I will. I was 11 years in Chicago, and I really miss that city. So many great memories and great friends; such a great place.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: Ned | November 6, 2009 5:22 PM
What the.. PZ, how do you know about this?!
I'm Ned Auckland, current president of the Humanist society at the University of Edinburgh, and i'm in the process of drafting an email to urge the other religious and political societies to come along and vote this thing down.
Please guys, don't send the CU any nasty email. I really mean it, there's no need to be unpleasant about this. The odds on it getting through are very slim indeed. We're going to handle this by being thoroughly reasonable, arguing that it will not promote religious equality, just christianity, and that furthermore, it may be offensive to some students due to its homophobic and sexist content.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
|
November 6, 2009 5:22 PM
Stewart Cowan #53
You folks got the Scone of Stone back. Shouldn't that perk you up?
I've been in Glasgow in February. I can quite understand why you've got so many problems.
Giving out Bibles won't help with these problems, except by giving examples of other people with major social problems. Or are you one of those idiots who actually think your sadistic, petulant, bullying deity offers some sort of message of hope?
Posted by: Desert Son
|
November 6, 2009 5:33 PM
'Tis Himself,
Cowan credits 12 years of sobriety to god/gods (and perhaps support from friends, family, rehabilitation groups, personal effort, therapy, medical care, and so on), rather than simply support from friends, family, rehabilitation groups, personal effort, therapy, medical care, and so on.
[New complementary close under construction],
Robert
Posted by: Alan Henness | November 6, 2009 5:36 PM
Some great suggestions here! We've been discussing it as well on Think Humanism.
(And although I'm a Scotsman, I can't stand whisky!)
Posted by: Stewart Cowan | November 6, 2009 5:37 PM
'Tis Himself,
I was with you up until the end of your comment. I thought: mmm, he's witty and personable for a humanist, then wallop. Illusion shattered!
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 6, 2009 5:38 PM
@ Stewart--The worst thing that ever happened to we Celts was Christianity. We were a kick ass people! The Romans could not conquer us. Celtic pride!
Posted by: Bob L
|
November 6, 2009 5:44 PM
Steward Cowan @ #53 "So it is, PZ. You're just so discriminated against, what with having to share the planet with other people!"
We won't be sharing squat with anyone once our future tentacle masters rise from the sea and cleanse the land. It will be to late to repent of your silly desert religion ideas when you are being gulped down the gullet of a Architeuthis heathen God botherer! Turn or become human-sushi!
Posted by: Ultraevo | November 6, 2009 5:53 PM
Make mine Lagavulin, Laphroaig, or Talisker, please.
The Gideons come to my secondary school every year and hand out new testaments to the first years. Some pupils eventually shake off the indoctrination, but its too deep for many.
Posted by: Stewart Cowan | November 6, 2009 5:55 PM
Antiochus,
Well, now that Christianity is waning in Britain and Ireland, we are losing our freedom and culture, thanks to lying down to the new Roman Empire. Scottish battalions kicked bottom all over the world for freedom. Now we're a colony of Brussels. You do the math.
Posted by: Chiroptera | November 6, 2009 5:59 PM
Stewart Cowan, #53: If you're so clever, why won't you realise that people's spiritual needs are as important as (if not more so than) their physical requirements?
Right on! To quote the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers: "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope."
Posted by: InfraredEyes
|
November 6, 2009 6:05 PM
I was a student at Edinburgh, and a member of the Student Representative Council, in the 1970s. The Christian Union tried to pull this stunt every year (having people sign a declaration of faith to join) and every year they were threatened with loss of funds from the "composite fee" paid by all students to support recognized societies. Much of what I know about two-faced weaselry was learned by listening to them explaining every year that their position wasn't discriminatory because, after all, anybody could sign, couldn't they? And a fair bit of what I know about derisive laughter was learned from the reaction to said weaselry. I'd be all misty-eyed at the memory if I weren't so annoyed that they are still trying this one on.
Posted by: Tulse | November 6, 2009 6:07 PM
That's my Holy Trinity. Damn shame Lagavulin is so frickin' expensive now.
Posted by: RagingBullwinkle
|
November 6, 2009 6:11 PM
I was in Edinburgh a month ago. Beautiful city! By strange coincidence, I'm making the Haggis I bought there. Bit of a struggle getting it through customs though but if it tastes anything like the serving I had in Edinburgh Castle cafe (complete with bottle of Innis & Gunn), I'd say it was worth it.
If I were the secular students at Edinburgh, I'd throw those bibles down the Worst Toilet in Scotland.
Posted by: StThomas | November 6, 2009 6:13 PM
When I was at university in Scotland (Aberdeen, not Edinburgh) I used to roll up cigarettes out of the Gideon's Bible in my room
Posted by: Paul Hands | November 6, 2009 6:21 PM
I'm a true Scot - born and bred in Glasgow, and went to Uni there.
This stupidity by the xtian union is just fine - students don't want to spend money on bum-tape (that's toilet paper to you septics!), and this is a real money saver.
Haggis is hideous; Lagavulin is nectar (as is Laphroaig) and I wear my kilt as often as possible, and as nature intended.
And.......Edinburgh is the capital of England....not Scotland.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Paul
Posted by: Brownian, OM
|
November 6, 2009 6:27 PM
What a numbnuts. If spiritual needs are so important, then why did Cowan give up the drink?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
|
November 6, 2009 6:28 PM
Well, for you it didn't take long for your delusional character to show through. All blather and no evidence. And 'Tis knows what he is talking about, unlike you.Posted by: kamaka | November 6, 2009 6:30 PM
I just heard on the radio that the shooter at Ft. Hood is "No True Muslim."
Posted by: Joffan | November 6, 2009 6:34 PM
Stewart: "Scottish battalions kicked bottom all over the world for freedom." - apart from sniggering at the unnecessary replacement of "arses" by "bottom", I'd just like to wind you up by adding "under English command" to the phrase.
Jura is a fine whisky, whatever daveau says. Highland Park is no slouch either, but I can certainly applaud the fine tase of many here in delighting in Talisker.
Posted by: Owlmirror | November 6, 2009 6:38 PM
A verra important event that was somehow left oot of all of the histories of Scotland
Posted by: Brownian, OM
|
November 6, 2009 6:43 PM
I once did a very bad thing: I brought a bottle of Laphroaig to a house party, and proceeded to knock myself on my ass. My 'friends' compounded my punishment by nearly finishing the bottle while I was making love to the loo.
Of course, looking back through the haze of history I can now say that was one hell of a party.
Posted by: BdN
|
November 6, 2009 6:51 PM
@Stewart
You're right : live and let live (to a certain extant...). But you seem to forget the second part in your non-analysis of the situation. Wanting to put a particular text in every room, Bible or other one, is imposing it to everybody and not "letting them live". Nobody tries to prevent them to distribute Bibles in the street. I, personally, wouldn't oppose it if they tried to give them away on the campus. But I would be against the imposition of The Origin in bedrooms as well. As for the "Allow people to gain a wider appreciation of other points of view, not always be trying to prevent people from reading stuff that you don't personally want to read.", don't you think that if every organization, or even individuals, could decide to put something in everybody else's room, this would quickly get out of control ? If people want to read stuff, there are many useful places on a campus called libraries. And, as far as I know, they have many Bibles...
And you're right : we should take care of their spiritual life as well. I think we should distribute little magic crystals to everybody so they can feel their vibrations and energies and stop trying to commit suicide. I know what you're talking about. I'm an atheist and I am an alcoholic who rapes little boys. Oh, wait, I was thinking of a priest I knew...
Posted by: jimmiraybob | November 6, 2009 7:02 PM
...and they'll be replacing the whiskey with wine.
These cads must be stopped. Maybe wine as an alternative, maybe wine alternative Wednesdays for instance. But replace? The evil is too strong...must fill glass with appropriate Bourbon.
Oh, this was a hypothetical. Never mind. Still drinking the bourbon though.
Posted by: steve_h | November 6, 2009 7:06 PM
The Scots have a saying: take caar of the pennies and the poonds will take caar of the'selves ... er, the noo, you'll have had your tea. Oh no wait, that was the Jews. Sorry. Bugger! now I'm all concerned and offended.
Posted by: Quarks | November 6, 2009 7:23 PM
Stewart : I don't know what part of Scotland you stay in, but the more godless the better. With a free mind it is easier see the beauty of this country. Oh and my whisky vote goes to Bunnahabhain.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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November 6, 2009 8:00 PM
I think I'll have a wee drop of Glengoyne 17 Year Old single malt.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 6, 2009 8:13 PM
That's the Irish version. For (presumably) some reason, the Scots put all accents in the other direction: slàinte.
Evidence, please.
First of all, evidence that there's been a trend at all, as opposed to people merely having started to count recently.
Is there such a thing as a spiritual need?
If so, why haven't I got any?
For freedom?!?
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
"OK, so, except for [long list], what have the Romans ever done for us?"
You're probably one of those who prefer the war against the Gog and the Magog over a bit of pax Romana. If so, I point and laugh, as long as you stay away from political power.
Posted by: Tacroy | November 6, 2009 8:16 PM
People say this sort of thing all the time, but the statistics never bear them out - if you actually look at it, things like suicide, drug-addiction and violence are decreasing; mental illnesses may be increasing, but that's almost always due to broadening of diagnostic criteria, not an actual increase in incidence.
And who's to say that divorce is actually a bad thing? Sure, it's better to not get married in the first place - but if you get married to someone you end up hating a year later, why not divorce them?
So really: people are losing their religion, and things are getting better. By that selfsame logic, this means that religion is bad.
Posted by: Gordon
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November 6, 2009 8:25 PM
Same trick was tried with all tramping huts in New Zealand. Fortunately a counter removal movement blossomed and as one tramper quoted noted "Given the option of a ropey old Reader's Digest I would rather use a page from a Bible to start a fire."
Posted by: Luna_the_cat | November 6, 2009 8:35 PM
...I had no idea there were so many Scots here....
DesertSon: I am currently being forced to visit Austin once a year. If you are still there next September and fancy a beer somewhere, perhaps you can provide me an hour or three of sanity away from my family.
StThomas @77: Hey, when were you at UoA?
steve_h @87: Please....never, ever try to write Doric again. That hurt.
Posted by: macleodcartoons
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November 6, 2009 9:14 PM
Who knew there were so many Scots and/or graduates of Edinburgh Uni who were readers of PZ? All, of course, kindred spirits of our fellow Edinburgh student, Charles Darwin...
Posted by: Zmidponk | November 6, 2009 9:35 PM
PZ, you're missing the big picture. You see, us atheist Scots let them get away with such things because it actually costs them time, money and resources to print all those Bibles and put them in the rooms, and then they go merrily on their way thinking of all the converts this will net them. A good perusal of the various comments on this thread will let you know exactly how deluded that view is, and the hard-up Scottish student gets toilet paper/joint paper/firestarters/whatever else for free.
Posted by: Aquaria | November 6, 2009 9:55 PM
Whisky doesn;t agree with me. For some reason, and not just for the hangovers.
Don't ask.
Posted by: Aquaria | November 6, 2009 9:58 PM
I hope that post made sense. I'm buzzed on Mango Margaritas from La Fogata. They were really strong tonight.
Posted by: Marion Delgado | November 6, 2009 10:37 PM
I think PZ is jealous and envious.
The Chthulhuists simply need to step up to the plate for once.
After all, the stars are right.
Posted by: Cruithne | November 6, 2009 10:53 PM
Count me as another true Scot, fae Whitburn, West lothian. though I have spent most of my life in Northern Ireland, sure aren't we the same anyway? I am partial to some Whiskey, especially Black Bush, does this mean I have to hand my sporran back?.
The worst thing that ever happened to we Celts was Christianity. We were a kick ass people! The Romans could not conquer us. Celtic pride!
Maybe not the Romans but the Vikings and the English sure kicked our arses.
Posted by: llewelly | November 6, 2009 11:02 PM
Bad idea. Burning ink is not good for your lungs. They're already suffering due to smoke; why make it worse?Posted by: BMS | November 6, 2009 11:17 PM
Glenkinchie 12.
While not a born -n- bred Scot myself, way-back family on my father's side crossed the pond in 1792.
My spouse took me to Skye in '06. When we walked into the Clan Donald house, she stared at the oil paintings, then looked at me, then back to the paintings, then at me again. "These," she says, "are your people."
I felt at home, at peace really, on Skye. Toured Talisker we did, too.
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 6, 2009 11:36 PM
Prefer the whiskey to whisky myself. Mick bias, maybe, but its easier on the mind and the stomach. The Scottish stuff is tasty, but leads to bad feelings and hangovers. The Irish stuff is mother's milk, but allows one to sleep easy in the tender arms of disbelief.
Posted by: Bert | November 7, 2009 12:11 AM
Heh.
As a untrue Scotsman, This is all true about Edinburgh Uni. They canny get get clearance for anything without their mammies permission.
Posted by: Adam C. | November 7, 2009 12:24 AM
*sigh* I'm currently in dispute with Edinburgh University: They're trying to throw me out over some severe health problems over the last four years which made me have to abandon classes a couple times.
Posted by: BlueMonday | November 7, 2009 1:50 AM
Talisker 12 year is my favorite whisky as well (though I have a tattoo to commemorate my favorite bourbon, scotch is my true love). Apparently there's a good-sized group of folks on here who are fans. Is there any way to form an Atheists for Talisker Alliance? And by "form an alliance" I mean have a party.
I'll host. I'd love to see a group of drunk atheists set loose on the Deep South.
Posted by: Al | November 7, 2009 1:56 AM
I went to Edinburgh, graduated 2006. I can remember there being Gideons bibles in the rooms in halls. Made for an ace window wedge/doorstop etc.
Posted by: TheVirginian | November 7, 2009 2:55 AM
Desert Son:
It's nice to hear that someone else dirnks Talisker. I don't do it often, but started picking up a bottle every so often after visiting the Isle of Skye. For non-drinkers, it's got an off taste - sort of tarry or maybe turpentinish - so I don't recommend it unless you want something different for a change. After I ordered a glass of it in a restaurant, the bartender - who turned out to be a Scotsman - recommended MacAllan and Balvenie. Both very good, but not cheap.
Posted by: TheVirginian | November 7, 2009 3:11 AM
Cthulhu damn it! All that talk about Talisker (after I read all the posts) has forced me to plan on stopping at the store and grabbing a bottle tomorrow. Can't afford it, but can't resist it!
I'm not Scotland born, but my Scottish forebears came over recently enough that I grew up hearing true Scots accents. Visited the homeland years ago with my parents. My mother could tell me stories she heard from her Scottish grandmother.
Yog-Sothoth damn it! Now I'm getting nostalgic to go back! And I only sort of remember my taste of haggis. Next time, I'll go easier on the ... ahem, gravy.
Posted by: TheTrueScotsman | November 7, 2009 3:53 AM
Ok, Who stole my name...
http://thetruescotsman.blogspot.com/
As THE true Scotsman, all the other Scotsmen are clearly untrue; and I should know as I'm THE true Scotsman.
Scottish joke for you.
10 cows in a field, which one is on holiday?
-----------------------------
The one with the wee calf.
Posted by: Phodopus
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November 7, 2009 4:13 AM
This thread is way to Talisker heavy. May I recommend Laphroaig 10 year, though not for the faint of heart...
Posted by: Matt Penfold | November 7, 2009 4:27 AM
I have another Scottish joke.
What is the definition of a Scottish Gentleman ?
A man who knows how to play the bagpipes, but doesn't.
Posted by: csrster | November 7, 2009 4:49 AM
Is that yer Ayrshire Bacon?
Naw, I'm just warming my hands.
Posted by: Colin | November 7, 2009 5:02 AM
Uses for a Bible?
It makes a great drinking game.
Starting at a random page, everyone in the game gets to read a verse at a time. If at any point they encounter any of the following words :
stoning
virgin
prophet
God
[...any suggestions?...]
everyone has to drink. Anyone reading aloud "lies with a man as with a woman" has to drink everyone *else's* drinks and then give a demonstration.
Posted by: speedweasel
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November 7, 2009 5:45 AM
The Macallan 18 year is unbelievably smooth and I cant recommend it highly enough but if you dont mind a single malt with a bit more character (read: smoky and heavy with peat) the Lagavulin 16 year is my favourite. Some people refer to it as the 'big brother' of the Laphroic.
So are we drinking whisky in Melbourne come March or do I stick with Scottish Gin?
Posted by: Rorschach | November 7, 2009 5:50 AM
We're drinking funny colored cocktails and beer afaik....:-)
Kel is the Whiskey guy I think, might get lucky with him !
:P
Posted by: Peter Ashby | November 7, 2009 6:14 AM
@DesertSon
Thank you most kindly for your offer of hospitality. You have just given me a good reason to visit Texas if I am ever over the pond again.
Posted by: hmmmprgh | November 7, 2009 6:52 AM
When I was in Uni of Aberdeen, we were a bunch of atheist (scientists) and quite poor students. Most of our cash was spent on alcohol and kebabs anyway...
So at one point the Christian Union or some such organization came to campus and advertized "Free Pizza and Drinks" for their meeting. Needless to say, we all went there and couldn't hold our laughs when people started saying how they saw Jesus in the Alps and stories like that. Anyways, as soon as the main man said "now please have some refreshments" there was almost a stampede, as more than half of the "concgregation" darted to the buffet and started eating pizza as fast as possible (a friend of mine filled a bag with pizza and coke bottles and ran). Needless to say, the CU guys freaked out... They expected to involve the "new" people in conversation after all the talks, but everybody was there just for the food...
Seeing as in Aberdeen there seem to be more churches turned into nightclubs than real churches, and I believe Glasgow and Edinburgh are even better, I wouldn't bet on the CU taking over campuses.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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November 7, 2009 6:55 AM
I like what Tommy Makem said: "The Irish gave the pipes to the Scotch, who never have understood the joke."
Posted by: hmmmprgh | November 7, 2009 6:55 AM
another scottish joke:
Why do Scotsmen wear kilts?
Because sheep can hear the zipper and run away...
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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November 7, 2009 7:06 AM
How many Scotsmen does it take to change a light bulb?
Och! It's no that dark!
Posted by: Rorschach | November 7, 2009 7:11 AM
An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman were standing looking at a prize cow in a field.
The Englishman says "Look at that fine English cow."
The Irishman disagreed, saying "No, it's an Irish cow."
The Scotsman thought for a moment and then clinched the argument. "No, it's a Scottish cow - it's got bagpipes underneath!"
Posted by: maclittlejohn | November 7, 2009 7:12 AM
Did ya hear about the Scotsman who won a million pounds in the lottery? When asked what he would do wi all the money, he replied, a guess I'll be gettin a new handle for ma shovel.
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | November 7, 2009 7:36 AM
I believe Bride of Shrek will be leading the charge of the red wine drinkers with me close behind. Though it'll depend on the weather; if it's warm I'll be drinking beer.
Posted by: Guy | November 7, 2009 7:41 AM
@38 - Julius
I too am at Exeter and was around for the whole ECU debacle. In fact there's lots of discussion still up on the XMEDIA forums about it and a good example here http://xmedia.ex.ac.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20499 of their anti equal ops motion.
They did try suing the student body and the president of the union at that time directly but it got thrown out of the higher courts. I say they it was one member of the ECU but the ECU in general would not distance themselves from it!
There was even a similar motion, either late last year or earlier this year, about the removal of Giddeon bibles from halls but it didn't get passed.
It's still rife though as this year so far I have had to write two articles to Exepose - one here repeated here http://xmedia.ex.ac.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20978 on a debate over Darwin and Evolution. One more recent, not yet published (fingers crossed), as a rebuttal to a recent article on how we should all be looking for Eden and how it would prove creationism should it be found. Sigh.
Posted by: Don Martin | November 7, 2009 8:48 AM
Might I suggest "fortune haggis?" When you open one, out pops a Bible verse du jour. What more could christians ask?
Posted by: James | November 7, 2009 10:29 AM
As someone who is not much younger than you are, and who studied in Scotland, I know that the students at the University of St. Andrews would have protested this kind of rule.
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | November 7, 2009 12:00 PM
I just had a fantastic book idea: "101 uses for the Bible." It's like the duct tape one, but for the Bible.
- bullet-proof vest/body armor
- "fetch" toy for your dog
- paper mache to make your holiday cthulhu icon out of
- water-walking sandals
- scrapbook for your favorite porn
Posted by: articulett | November 7, 2009 12:50 PM
Free bibles make excellent props for demonstrations of friction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhpXnGaYmdA
I say, use the bibles to further the science education of the students!
Posted by: Julius | November 7, 2009 2:30 PM
@Guy #124 - hey, another Pharyngulite at Exeter? (Well, I know of at least two more people that lurk, not that I post much.) In case you're still reading this thread, my full name is Julius Apweiler, give me a shout on Facebook if you're on there!
Yeah, I did follow that ECU stuff with great amusement at the time, I went to the Guild AGM I mentioned, but I can't be arsed to keep up with it these days...
Posted by: Knockgoats | November 7, 2009 3:02 PM
Stewart Cowan is as usual completely wrong: Scots are more likely to be religious than the English, and also drink more alcohol. Excessive alcohol consumption is closely linked to living in deprived areas, hence to real poverty, not lack of "spirituality". What Cowan really regrets is the decline of the sectarian hatred (and homophobia) he so clearly feels.
Posted by: Julius | November 7, 2009 3:06 PM
@Guy #124 - hey, another Pharyngulite at Exeter? (Well, I know of at least two more people that lurk, not that I post much.) In case you're still reading this thread, my full name is Julius Apweiler, give me a shout on Facebook if you're on there!
Yeah, I did follow that ECU stuff with great amusement at the time, I went to the Guild AGM I mentioned, but I can't be arsed to keep up with it these days...
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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November 7, 2009 3:22 PM
Julius went to Exeter twice.
Posted by: txevangelist | November 7, 2009 4:36 PM
I had heard that Christianity had all but disappeared from Scotland, and now I see why. I thought only Communists and neo-cons were afraid of books, but apparently the mere presence of a Bible in the room scares atheists.
I imagine readers of this site would have a field day with my upcoming article "Does God Believe in Atheists?" Look for it on http://txevangelist.wordpress.com sometime tomorrow.
Have a great weekend, and don't look under your bed...there might be a Bible there.
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD | November 7, 2009 5:39 PM
txevangelist, actually, while I haven't got a bible under my bed I do have one somewhere on my bookshelves. Always good when I need to point out the absurdities in xianity and how it really isn't a faith of love and good will to all men. We are not afraid of your bible, we just despise your tactics, such as your lying for jeebus, your homophobia, your misogyny. Want me to go on?
As to Stewart Cowan's garbage, Knockgoats pretty well covered it in #130.
Posted by: Quarks | November 7, 2009 7:14 PM
University of Edinburgh has a long history of religious issues, over 300 years.
On 8 January 1697, Thomas Aikenhead, a medical student, who studied at University of Edinburgh was hanged for blasphemy, the last person to be executed for blasphemy in the UK.
Religion must be removed from civic life to prevent a resurgence. Think what you want, but don't force it on others.
Whisky - Still no one else for Bunnahabhain?
Posted by: Knockgoats | November 7, 2009 7:15 PM
I had heard that Christianity had all but disappeared from Scotland, and now I see why. - txevangelist
It's fast disappearing from Scotland ("all but disappeared" is unfortunately an exaggeration), because increasing numbers of Scots have grown up, and thus realised what a stupid, worthless load of shite it is.
Posted by: travc | November 7, 2009 7:30 PM
I really wish we could get our own, markedly more useful, version of the Gideons going. No specific book, though there are touchstones such as the Age of Reason. I'd put "The Canon" by Natilie Angier on the list too. Any good reality based books would be acceptable to distribute of course.
The Enkians (as in Nam-shub of Enki) seems like a great choice of name.
Posted by: Aphanes | November 7, 2009 7:31 PM
I suspect the paper bins will be getting their own bibles too. About one minute after the students get them, I suspect.
Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook
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November 7, 2009 7:36 PM
I'm on for the Bunnahabhain. We have over a dozen single malts in the bar at the moment, almost all of them from Islay. There's also Highland Park, Glenlivet and Isle of Jura.
Posted by: Rolston | November 8, 2009 9:12 AM
PZ, I find your stereotypical treatment of the Scottish people to be sickening.
We are not all whiskey-swilling, haggis-munching, kilt-trimming cretins. Many of us are functional individuals, who manage to stay sober at least until noon. Shortbread has long been a staple of gift baskets worldwide, and bagpipe music is the foremost means of denoting an approaching St. Patrick's Day parade - for some reason. And I've only ever fucked one sheep in my entire life. Seriously, it was just the one time.
The next thing I know, you'll be publishing stories about how our motley highland boys moon the English while demanding freedom.
Have you no shame, sir?
Regards,
Breggar Duncan MacLood
447th Earl of Kintyre
Posted by: Dawei | November 8, 2009 11:41 AM
Late to the party.
Not to worry when I was at Edinburgh 20 years ago everyone was pretty atheist, I presume that things have not gotten much better for the chrito crowd since then. So they can put them in the dorms, they will end up in joints, or bog paper, or in the bin. The only ones who will care with be the cristo chaps and they will have their own already. A good waste of money for them all round so hear hear.
Posted by: Aquaria | November 8, 2009 5:32 PM
Shortbread has long been a staple of gift baskets worldwide
Speaking of shortbread, Costco is once again offering a 2.1 kg (4.6 lb) humongous megapack of the Walkers goodness, in a lovely holiday tin. I seriously recommend taking them up on it, since the tin itself can store several skeins of yarn. My petite cat sleeps in another I've acquired over the years--if she's not gotten too fat. She started that when the smell of butter was still strong in the container, but then it became a habit. I think she'd smother me in my sleep if I threw it away.
Posted by: Paul Murray | November 8, 2009 11:30 PM
I recently saw a copy of the Gideon's bible, so I turned to my very very favourite verse: Lev 27:28-29, the one which clear as day demonstrates that the ancient hebrews practised human sacrifice to Jehovah. Their mistranslation of it was risible.
Posted by: TonyC | November 8, 2009 11:36 PM
I too am a lurking Scotsman -- hailing frae Greenock (I know) ah went tae Heriot Watt (ah wisnae posh enough fur Edinburgh!) and then tae Strathclyde (ditto fur Glesga!)
I've drunk(!) many a dram in my time, but since one hogmanay shared with two bottles of Glenmorangie and only one neighbour, I don't indulge quite so much. I am quite fond of Auld Fettercairn, but that's only because of spending time near the distillery at 'seminars' at Edzel house!
My wife & I had a great vacation once - taking the long drive around many of the distilleries (up the east coast, down the great glen to the islands, then back to Glasgow) -- I say we, but mostly she drove & I enjoyed a wee sampling at each of the stops. I'm still paying for that particular trip!
And - Scotland is definitely becoming less religious... but (I think) the religious are getting noisier to compensate!
Posted by: Ian | November 9, 2009 5:24 AM
Strangely Pollock Halls is the only place I've ever actually met real, honest to goodness, heavens to murgatroyd, british YECS. This was in the 80s (getting old now) and I wound up sharing a room with one and meeting his weird friends (whether i wanted to or not) He was a geologist and I think the cognitive dissonance of it all got to much for him, he vanished for a "rest" and never returned. His friends were mostly lawyers and humanities types. Don't remember there being Bibles in the rooms back then, I think they would have fallen victim to Bonfire night if there had been)
Other than that I knew a few of the Island type Christians who were damn nice people and non pushy about it all. For most people it just didn't come up.
By the aforementioned definition I count as a Scottish gentleman and put me down for a Laphroaig