…and this is a 
I am impressed with the discipline imposed by the traditional madrassas: students are expected to memorize the Koran, word for word, which requires that they spend day after day reading and reciting. I don't deny that it's hard work and is a kind of achievement, but it's not education — it doesn't teach people how to think for themselves.
So I find this story about kids memorizing the Bible rather dismaying. These are clearly kids with brains, discipline, and a kind of warped ambition, who have the potential to do interesting things, and our Christian leaders have apparently seen some virtue in the madrassas model, so they've got them engaged in the pointless and backwards-looking exercise of Bible drills. It's such a waste.
At least it's all-American and thoroughly capitalist. The winner of the Bible bee got $100,000. I only hope he takes the money and uses it to get a good secular education so he can do something productive with his mind.
Education
Comments
Posted by: Valdyr | November 16, 2009 10:33 AM
Fatwa envy: doin' it right.
Posted by: Ashley Moore | November 16, 2009 10:33 AM
On the plus side, making kids read the WHOLE Bible is a good making of creating atheist.
Posted by: Abdul Alhazred
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November 16, 2009 10:33 AM
$100,000? Is there also an ideological requirement or can any heathen kid apply?
Posted by: Disturbingly Openminded | November 16, 2009 10:34 AM
"Jacob Manning, 14, a Minneapolis high school student, said he considered his participation in the bee "really an investment in eternity" because he expected the words to remain with him forever."
If I expected to live for all eternity, I wouldn't see any value at all in memorizing something now when I could simply read it at my leisure an infinite number of times.
Posted by: JarrodB | November 16, 2009 10:35 AM
Encouraging people to read and memorize the ENTIRE bible?
PZ, I can pretty much guarantee a large number of them will be leaving their religion behind. How many people gave it up after actually sitting down and reading that book? I'm sure plenty of your readers have their own stories.
Posted by: tsg | November 16, 2009 10:36 AM
Only if they think about what they're reading.
Posted by: PZ Myers
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November 16, 2009 10:37 AM
Right. This is not a process that encourages critical thought.
Posted by: holomorph | November 16, 2009 10:39 AM
I can't believe the amount of prize money. That's quite a bit more than the spelling bee champion gets.
I won a national Bible quizzing tournament in high school, and I only got one-hundredth that much. However, I did use it to get a good secular education and do something productive with my mind. Hey, if this Bible quizzing champion can become a Pharyngula-reading, evilution-believing heathen, there's hope for Daniel too, I suppose. I will say this: the memory-building exercise is useful, if you use it for something other than Bible verses later in life.
I'll be at the debate tonight; I'm looking forward to witnessing the (rhetorical) slaughter of a dissident.
Posted by: holomorph | November 16, 2009 10:42 AM
I should mention, in response to posts 5, 6, and 7, that it was indeed Bible quizzing that got me to read the first part of the Bible that I did not and could not believe: 1 Timothy 2, with Paul's views on women. I memorized the book of 1 Timothy in eighth grade, and that was the very first time I remember saying to myself, "even though it's in the Bible, I don't believe it".
Posted by: BlueMonday | November 16, 2009 10:46 AM
I participated in a bible memorization contest in high school. I got second or third place. I memorized the book of James and the third chapter of Lamentations. I still use quotes from both from time to time, particularly when folks talk about True Christians. James had some choice words regarding true religion, taking care of the poor and defenseless being the chief attribute. Nice to quote that to Republicans.
Posted by: charley | November 16, 2009 10:50 AM
Meh. Not much different from a spelling bee.
My experience with memorizing Bible passages as a child is that it's easy to do without giving any thought to the meaning.
Posted by: tsg | November 16, 2009 10:51 AM
I will wager that you are the exception and not the rule.
Posted by: Michelle R | November 16, 2009 10:52 AM
Achievement indeed! I too could recite word for word, punctuation for punctuation...Every bit of dialogue of the SNES game Chrono Trigger.
It was about as useful as knowing the bible by heart.
Posted by: o|o | November 16, 2009 10:54 AM
A waste of minds that for example could find the cure for AIDS in stead of propagating that condom use makes it worse or it is really a plague onto those that go against god's will for heterosexual lifestyles.
Posted by: bckcntry | November 16, 2009 10:55 AM
"Kids are learning to spell words," Mark Rasche, executive director of the bee, recalled the benefactor saying. "That's great, but there's no eternal value."
Oh my.
Posted by: Michelle | November 16, 2009 10:57 AM
On the bright side, with the text entrenched in his brain, if the kid does deconvert one day, he has the potential to be one heck of a debater when it comes to Christian doctrine.
Posted by: MrFire
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November 16, 2009 10:58 AM
As I recall, quite a few Pharyngulites are capable of quoting scripture at will.
Perhaps one of them should enter. It could be even sweeter than the Eric Hovind iPod Sweep.
Posted by: AnonCoward23 | November 16, 2009 11:01 AM
Instead of donating that money to cancer research? O_o
Posted by: Moggie | November 16, 2009 11:02 AM
"I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a kid with 100k bucks to enter into the Kingdom of God." Of all the incentives to offer good Christian kids, they chose money? Can you say "moral bankruptcy"?
#15:
What he doesn't realise is that God hates bad spelling. One confusion of there/their/they're and it's the pit of fire for you.
Posted by: Strakh | November 16, 2009 11:03 AM
This reminds me of a wonderful passage from "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer". The setting is Sunday school and the children are reciting their scripture memorizations for the teacher. (Twain stated that this was how it was in his Sunday School during his own youth.):
"When they came to recite their lessons, not one of them knew his verses perfectly, but had to be prompted all along. However, they worried through, and each got his reward -- in small blue tickets, each with a passage of Scripture on it; each blue ticket was pay for two verses of the recitation. Ten blue tickets equalled a red one, and could be exchanged for it; ten red tickets equalled a yellow one; for ten yellow tickets the superintendent gave a very plainly bound Bible (worth forty cents in those easy times) to the pupil. How many of my readers would have the industry and application to memorize two thousand verses, ever for a Dore Bible? And yet Mary had acquired two Bibles in this way -- it was the patient work of two years -- and a boy of German parentage had won four or five. He once recited three thousand verses without stopping; but the strain upon his mental faculties was too great, and he was little better than an idiot from that day forth -- a grievous misfortune for the school, for on great occasions, before company, the superintendent (as Tom expressed it) had always made this boy come out and "spread himself."
So, nothing new, and never better told than by the great riverman himself.
Posted by: tsg | November 16, 2009 11:07 AM
Man, am I in trouble. For some reason I have a mental block about this. I do know when to use each one but, for some reason, invariably type the wrong one first. Really weird because if someone else does it it jumps out at me.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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November 16, 2009 11:14 AM
We had to learn "memory verses." It's not all bad, in fact, as it probably is good exercise for the memory, and I still know bits of the Bible that have a kind of cultural significance.
Depends on how much time is spent on it, I would think. A little, not so bad, although reciting Shakespeare would probably be more useful. A lot, and well, it's going to interfere with actual learning, which I think is a point of the madrassas.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: Denise Monroe | November 16, 2009 11:15 AM
Gee, and all my kid is memorizing is digits of pi and Mandarin vocabulary words & their characters. Somehow I thought that would be more useful to her in twenty years than Bible verses. Of course, the compound interest on $100K in twenty years would be nothing to sneeze at...
Nah. She's still better off using a kid's natural ability to memorize tons of stuff (just ask any kids you know to recite the details of their Pokemon cards or their favorite video game) to learn something that will help her contribute to the world.
Posted by: Dr. I. Needtob Athe | November 16, 2009 11:17 AM
I once memorized Armaments Chapter 2, verses 9 to 21:
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats...
Dr. I. Needtob Athe, founder of Atheism
Posted by: Ol'Froth | November 16, 2009 11:18 AM
Hmmm...I can quote Monty Python at will, for 100k I'm sure I could memorize the damn book. Can middle-aged atheists participate in the bible bee?
Posted by: Sili
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November 16, 2009 11:21 AM
At least the Koran (Quran?) has the benefit of having only one version. Muhammed (Mohammed?) did that much right at least. I can only assume that there were silly debates over Christian scripture already in the eighth century.
But perhaps these people work with the divinely inspired KJV?
Posted by: nejishiki | November 16, 2009 11:28 AM
I can quote the Orange Catholic Bible. Does that count?
Posted by: Feynmaniac | November 16, 2009 11:30 AM
It would be interesting to see how knowledge of the Bible as a child relates to whether a person becomes an atheist later in life. Just from my personal experience I'd say atheists tend to be more knowledgeable on the Bible than Christians. Many Christians haven't read much of the Bible themselves and their knowledge comes from the Bowlderized information they got from Sunday school. It's true there are people with both minimal and in-depth knowledge who become atheists (or who remain Christians), but I wonder what the overall statistics are.
Also, while this process doesn't develop critical thinking skills, it does provide the children with the raw data of the book, as oppose to the Sunday school version. Once you have that you don't need sophisticated skills to realize that it's filled contradictions and reads more like a fairy tale.
Posted by: tsg | November 16, 2009 11:31 AM
I can recite Cletus' kids name from memory. Just as useful except that I have won a couple of bar bets with it...
Posted by: Ashley Moore | November 16, 2009 11:38 AM
Sili, actually the Quran was standardised 18 years after Muhammed's death, when Uthman ibn Affan ordered all but one of the exiting versions to get destroyed.
Posted by: Not that Louis | November 16, 2009 11:39 AM
Off topic. Is the debate still on for tonight?
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 16, 2009 11:44 AM
These recitations are the religious equivalent of a spelling bee...a contest that I have always thought required, how do you say?... "brains, discipline, and a warped sense of ambition"? Still not very educational, but at least the spellers don't show up at my door every Sunday to show off their skillz.
My grumpitude may be sour grapes, given that I never made it past the first round of any spelling bee. Further, being raised Catholic, I was never actually instructed to open a bible.
Posted by: inkadu | November 16, 2009 11:53 AM
Ol' Froth: Atheists probably are not eligible.
( http://www.biblebee.org/contestrules.php and http://www.biblebee.org/contestrules.php )
And to think it could have been just a fun competition for people who value the cultural and historical significance of the bible. heh.
Posted by: Coragyps | November 16, 2009 11:57 AM
Hmm. The Book of Numbers. Can you imagine some poor little dweeb reciting that on stage, and pronouncing every name correctly?
"And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted."
Posted by: Michelle R | November 16, 2009 12:00 PM
@inkadu: I think for 100k I'd briefly believe all that for a while. :P
Posted by: PGPWNIT | November 16, 2009 12:04 PM
how many child activities are?
Posted by: tsg | November 16, 2009 12:06 PM
How is that in any way relevant?
Context matters.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | November 16, 2009 12:07 PM
Well play can encourage critical thought. As can education.
So quite a few actually.
Posted by: Peter G | November 16, 2009 12:09 PM
I wonder how the poor little bastards will feel when someone tells them they memorized the wrong version of the bible and must, in consequence, go to hell.
Posted by: PGPWNIT | November 16, 2009 12:10 PM
yeah. But I meant these sort of events.
Spelling bee
Pi memorization
most organized sports.
Posted by: FlameDuck | November 16, 2009 12:15 PM
Only because they burnt all the other versions. It hardly seems appropriate giving a religion credit for being more iron fisted than the Spanish Inquisition.Anyway I think this is an excellent idea. There is no greater agent for atheism than reading for yourself religious scripture (as opposed to having it interpreted for you by a member of the clergy). Granted it doesn't teach critical thought, and granted many participants might just be mindless fleshy automatons. But if just one person reads the bible and decides it's rubbish, it will have been entirely worth it. The rest, well they never really had a fighting chance in this world anyway, having parents who think religious indoctrination is what all the cool kids are doing, is a one way ticket to a welfare trailer park, no matter how clever you are. It's not exactly a marketable skill. Maybe that one guy who does turn atheist will grow up to invent a time machine so he can send all his former competitors back to the 11th century, were they will actually be able to contribute to society, albeit rather briefly, as fodder for the Crusades.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | November 16, 2009 12:22 PM
Then you should have said so.
Posted by: PGPWNIT | November 16, 2009 12:29 PM
ROWR!
FFFFT
FFFFT!
Down kitty, I wasn't trying to be confrontational.
/except for right there.
Posted by: Mike Wagner
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November 16, 2009 12:32 PM
Can they even put those restrictions on the contest?
Shouldn't it be as simple as "No purchase required"?
Plus if it's kids, how can they even agree to such conditions legally?
Your parents can sign a permission form but they can't really sign your beliefs.
Posted by: Moggie
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November 16, 2009 12:33 PM
#23:
It's 3. What do I win?
Actually, I memorised it to 50 digits as a kid, before I got bored. I can now remember only 25, so I'm 50% dumber than a teenager. Now that's scary.
Posted by: Cimourdain
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November 16, 2009 12:35 PM
Please tell me this isn't what it looks like:
...words fail me.
Posted by: llewelly | November 16, 2009 12:37 PM
In this respect, the Muslim madrassas are perhaps slightly wiser; most Muslims do not know Arabic, have little hope of understanding the Quran, and therefor won't be thinking much about it.Posted by: jim | November 16, 2009 12:41 PM
#33: Not necessarily. You're not required to believe all that, you're just not allowed to say so out loud.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | November 16, 2009 12:43 PM
Cimourdain,
I note you have started quote-mining. Did you pick that up from the creationists ?
You missed of the rest of the sentence. Deliberately of course, and thus dishonestly. Deliberately because the rest of it would have shown you were quote-mining.
Posted by: Ibis3
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November 16, 2009 12:55 PM
I would argue that spelling bees do teach thinking skills (even if, technically there's nothing to be critical of). Much of the process involves applying linguistic and etymological knowledge to words you've never (or rarely) seen before. In other words, deductive reasoning, which is a very useful skill.
On topic: I can't quite wrap my mind around paying kids to memorize excerpts of one of the most horrid and despicable anthologies ever compiled. Ugh. If only it were for memorizing Shakespeare or epic poetry. (It was my geeky-kid aim to memorize Shakespeare; I got as far as the first scene of The Merchant of Venice.)
Posted by: gr8hands | November 16, 2009 1:00 PM
Memorizing the bible as a youngster was looked upon as wonderful by the elders, until I pointed out the contradictions. Then I was told that I "didn't understand" and to keep quiet. I guess they didn't like it when someone knew scripture.
As an FYI, the founder of the first National Park (Yosemite) also memorized the entire bible.
Fortunately, http://www.biblegateway.com/ exists, and it has the contents in a bunch of translations and languages.
Posted by: Carlie | November 16, 2009 1:00 PM
Pffft. It's only 6 books, and what do you want to bet none of them have the good stories? I have to admit I'm tickled at the thought of some kid reciting how Abraham's daughters looked on his nakedness and fornicated with him while he was drunk, but I guess that's not going to happen.
Posted by: Steve in Dublin | November 16, 2009 1:17 PM
@tsg #21
So their, take that!
Posted by: Nebula99 | November 16, 2009 1:30 PM
I memorized the chemical elements in atomic order when I was a kid. It actually came in handy for high school chemistry. I also tried to do pi, but the fact that I could never memorize *all* of it made me give up at 26 decimal places.
Posted by: SkyEyes | November 16, 2009 1:42 PM
Don't despair, PZ. These "American madrassas" aren't really a new phenomenon. I grew up a christian fundamentalist, and was expected to memorize as much of the bible as I possibly could.
Now here I am, 60 years old, a fire-breathing atheist and ardent creation-debater. The fact that I've memorized large swathes of the bible comes in quite handy, actually: the christians can't blow smoke up my skirt about about what the bible actually says.
Posted by: Larry
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November 16, 2009 1:45 PM
Well, in terms of their future occupations, I can imagine that they'll be admirably suited to be a preacher (boys only now!) or any job where "you want fries with that" is one phrase taught during employee orientation.
Posted by: Greta Christina | November 16, 2009 1:47 PM
I'll second what others have said: This could be a good thing. So few Christians actually read the Bible. And when I did a recent survey in my blog (admittedly very un-scientific) asking what led them to leave religion, a substantial number of them said, "Reading the Bible." Actually knowing what an inaccurate, internally contradictory, morally nightmarish horrorshow the book is leads a lot of people straight to atheism.
Oh, and Carly #52: That was Lot's daughters, not Abraham's. (Not to worry: I recently said it was Noah's -- in a review of the Robert Crumb Genesis, which I had just read. Oy.)
Posted by: JJR | November 16, 2009 2:01 PM
When I was in Middle School, I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark so many times that I literally had the entire screenplay memorized. Every bit of dialogue, from every character, even dramatic pauses.
I could also recite The Dark Crystal from memory, too.
Heck, when I did College drama productions, after enough rehearsals I had the entire script memorized, not just my lines, especially if I was playing a major character. If people forgot their lines, I could usually ad lib and talk them back to the script until they remembered their lines. Sometimes someone would jump a page ahead, but since we all knew the dialogue, as long as we made sure to cover the key bits of dialogue on the preceding pages, it was usually no big deal. Oh, and these were all German-language productions, too. ;-)
Posted by: RobC | November 16, 2009 2:02 PM
I'm with Greta and others: actually reading the Bible is a very dangerous thing for Christians to do....Angels mating with humans, God tries to kill Moses, genocide, rape, murder, incest, inconsistency of the Gospels.
Why do you think Rome was opposed to putting it in the Vulgate for so long?
Posted by: RobC | November 16, 2009 2:07 PM
Typo: that should read taking it OUT of the Vulgate (into native languages)
The first English translator, John Wycliffe, upon orders from the Pope had his bones dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river! #2, John Hus gets burned at the stake, using his own translated bibles as kindling....
Posted by: the pro from dover | November 16, 2009 2:47 PM
This reminds me of an anecdote early in my medical career. I took care of a brother/sister pair in their mid 20's that were insulin dependant diabetics since ages 3 and 2 respectively. They were both fundamentalists and I was aware of that. She was a housewife and music teacher who I helped get through 2 scary pregnancies. She is still alive now age 50 with 2 insulin dependant children. He was a drummer in a christian-metal band and had every complication you can think of, and died about age 40. I was asked to look after their mother who was not under good control despite seeing many doctors. I started taking care of her and in asking about her vision (a big issue with diabetes) she replied "I only read the bible." I never gave that much thought until it became clear that I was making no more headway than anyone else had been in getting her under control. Eventually I asked her to bring in the medicines I was prescribing so I could verify their doses and timing and was nonplussed to find out she had no idea what they were or how she was to take them. I took the bottles she had brought in and showed her the directions written on the labels. Her reply to me was "I only read the bible."
Posted by: --E | November 16, 2009 2:50 PM
I have (or, more accurately, had) memorized all kinds of nonsense over the years, most of it useless.
Who among the geek community can't rattle off at least half a dozen Monty Python sketches? How many song lyrics are taking up space in your brain? Bits of Shakespeare or Keats? I memorized Harriet the Spy and The Phantom Tollbooth when I was a kid, simply by rereading them a gajillion times.
The bible may be a lot of crap, but much of it is no worse than any other nonsense we enjoy. It's not the bible that's the problem, but the idiots who misuse a piece of literature to browbeat people into believing stupid things.
Posted by: Susannah | November 16, 2009 3:01 PM
Somehow that makes me want to cry for these kids.
I was one of them. I won contests on a regular basis; I had many full chapters memorized, a couple of the smaller "books", and hundreds of individual texts. I also could sing from memory all the verses of an entire hymnbook of gospel songs.
My parents took me to hear a kid, younger than me, who had memorized the entire New Testament. I was close, but not in his league.
That was the King James version. When I went to Mexico with my missionary parents, I started to memorize the same texts in Spanish (Reina-Valera). I didn't get quite as far, but at least I can "follow along" one step ahead of a Scripture reading.
So sad. What a waste of energy and time! And the net result was that it took me much longer to realize the contradictions and spot the lies in the words I parrotted, because I had learned to focus on the words and not the meanings.
One thing that may be a minor benefit; now I can remember an appropriate verse for a discussion without needing to look it up. A very minor benefit, that.
But think of what I could have been learning in those years spent reciting, over and over, the words of one old book.
Posted by: Woozle
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November 16, 2009 4:06 PM
As someone who shares the not-very-common last name of the contest's winner, I just want to disavow any relation...
There's more about the kid's family here. Perhaps as a fellow Staddon I should initiate an outreach and try to save them from the sinful and unrational forces of godfulness? Turnabout is fair play...
(P.S. Started trying to type this several hours ago, got into an argument with Movable Type -- it requires a confirmation email which of course didn't get through, and apparently there's no way to tell it to re-send -- but I was finally was able to log in via TypePad.)
(P.P.S. Would be nice if, once logged in, the personal info fields would go away, since it totally ignores what I put into them.)
Posted by: Alexis
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November 16, 2009 4:28 PM
Again, this type of bee is nothing new, except for the ridiculously huge bribe, I mean prize.
I am reminded both of the Tom Sawyer episode cited by Strakh in #20, and of Maya Angelou's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings". When the black female narrator ran out of politically correct "god is love" and "turn the other cheek" type verses she turned to Song of Solomon
Chapter 1
1.The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
2.Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
3.Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
4.Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
5.I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
And beating out the snotty white boy expected winner, she was awarded the clip on bow tie that was selected with the boy in mind.
Posted by: DLC
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November 16, 2009 4:31 PM
(wow but Movable Type Sucks.)
Every time I think of 30 children sitting rows chanting out bible verse, I can't help but think of the Pink Floyd album (and movie) The Wall.
I so want those children to get up and revolt against their oppressors. Education should be fun, not horrorshow drudgery.
Posted by: Cimourdain
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November 16, 2009 5:28 PM
Matt, intellectually, as well as physically, you always arrive late. The rest of the sentence only makes it worse. Here's the rest:
The first sentence & the first part of the last expresses explicit support for the systematic mutilation and stultification of children's minds. The objection in the last part of the last sentence is no where near enough.
Has P.Z. learned nothing from Richard Dawkins?
Posted by: Knockgoats
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November 16, 2009 5:35 PM
You're a fucking nutter, Cimourdain; completely Finchley. No-one sane, and at all familiar with his views, could possibly read PZ's "commendation" of the discipline of the madrassa as other than ironic.
Posted by: Cimourdain
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November 16, 2009 5:39 PM
Dear me, Knockgoats, didn't your mother ever teach you manners?
Posted by: Knockgoats
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November 16, 2009 6:38 PM
She taught me respect for the truth, Cimourdain. That's why I call you what you are: a fucking nutter.
Posted by: JThompson | November 16, 2009 6:40 PM
I hope he spends it on prostitutes, booze, and blow. If he doesn't, his holy roller parents will.Posted by: wrpd | November 16, 2009 8:28 PM
I mostly went to RC elementary schools, so there was no bible memorization involved, but we did have to memorize the Baltimore Catechism. But even that was only about five questions and answers a week.
In sixth grade we had to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution and Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. I found this was helpful because it has kept me grounded in what this country stands for.
We also had to memorize our history book. We were graded just on our ability to recite back whole chapters. Forgetting words resulted in being smacked with the nun's thick yardstick. We were never tested on actual content. I can memorize things I hear much easier than things I read. I could study all night and not memorize a chapter. But the next day in school, after hearing six other kids recite it I would have it down pat. The recitations were done in alphabetical order. My last name begins with "D" so I had heard the piece about six times before it got to me.
Posted by: Meathead | November 16, 2009 9:33 PM
I went to a wacko Biblicist school for a while in my youth. They had us memorize scripture too. The only good thing that came of it was that I learned that you remember stuff you study right before bedtime. I still use that today to help me remember the blasphemous facts of evolution and molecular biology.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM
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November 16, 2009 10:00 PM
I can memorize things, particularly poetry. I once got a free oyster from a fishmonger by reciting The Walrus and the Carpenter at him.
I can recite Tom Lehrer's The Elements.
Posted by: Mack | November 16, 2009 10:44 PM
The recitation sounds a lot like the old show, Animaniacs. I know many a young person learned their state capitals from Wakko.
I memorize movies. Not on purpose, I just can't rid of them once they're there.
Posted by: FlameDuck | November 17, 2009 1:50 AM
#56 I don't think "You want fries with that" is in the bible tho', although it probably should be.
So the LORD said to him, "Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon." And Abram asked, "You want fries with that?" - Genesis 15:8'ish. :)
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. - John Adams.
I can only assume that English isn't your first language, or that you're reading PZ Myers, like the devil reads the bible. A statement like "I suppose having a level 80 Paladin in World Of Warcraft is some kind of achievement, but it's probably not the kind of thing you'd want written on your headstone" is not, by a long shot, a statement of "explicit support" for playing World Of Warcraft for the obscene amount of time it requires to get a level 80 Paladin.Posted by: Cimourdain
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November 17, 2009 7:01 AM
Matt, btw, you are the last person who should complain about quote mining.
Posted by: gillt | November 17, 2009 8:58 AM
In Catholic school we had to memorize all the Popes one semester for religion class. Attendance and that were the only requirement for that class.
Posted by: Aquaria
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November 17, 2009 9:06 AM
Cimourdain, do you have a fucking point, or are you just being your usual annoying, moronic self? Yes, you're a moron for failing to pick up on PZ's sarcasm, and quote mining to build up your stupid strawman. Own up to your own failings before accusing someone else. Most of us learned by kindergarten that two wrongs don't equal a right. How sad for you that you were either too stupid to learn it, or were raised by wolves.
Go play on the freeway. You'd be a greater service to humanity that way.
Posted by: Woozle
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November 17, 2009 9:13 AM
I nominate Cimourdain as the Official Troll for this thread.
Posted by: gadfly47
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November 17, 2009 9:41 AM
I endured a fair amount of Christian indoctrination in my youth. My girlfriend is a mild theist and is constantly perplexed that I have bothered to learn so much of the Bible when I don't believe in it. My answer to her is I find it useful to quote scripture at people during arguments. However, most people are so ignorant of what is actually in the Bible I could probably just make stuff up and they wouldn't know. I suppose that's what a lot of the fundy leaders do. ;)
Posted by: The Pint
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November 17, 2009 3:32 PM
@ nejishiki #27 "I can quote the Orange Catholic Bible. Does that count?"
What are you, a kwisatz haderach?
In regards to the whole memorization thing, it's a useful skill for kids to have but yep, they could probably have found far more useful information to memorize. Memorization is a useful skill to have - hell, I think adults should keep up with similar exercises to keep the brain sharp - but the problem with memorization is that it doesn't teach kids at all how to think about what they're actually memorizing and they end up parroting what they've learned without understanding what they're saying. Although you probably do end up with the occasional odd duck (like a few posters here) who actually does stop to think about the material and realizes how much it's a load of contradictory and often horrifying tripe.