Pharyngula

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 26, 2009 6:13 PM

Rhubarb is okay. At least it's not any kind of squash.

Posted by: David Estlund | November 26, 2009 6:19 PM

Squash pie?! Appalling.

Posted by: Happy Tentacles | November 26, 2009 6:20 PM

Yes, I've had pies like that - usually at strange times of the night on the way home from the pub. After a few beers you don't pay any attention to the way your food twitches when you touch it.

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak | November 26, 2009 6:23 PM

There's no pie at this thanksgiving party so it totally blows.

Posted by: Roy Hilbinger | November 26, 2009 6:27 PM

I dunno; looks like a stuffed pizza to me. Although I can't help but notice a vague resemblance to a cephalopod. Could this be a Cthulhu pie?

Posted by: Brownian, OM | November 26, 2009 6:28 PM

I have no idea what those subtitles say, but it's probably something horrific.

Where's Kseniya when you need her?

Posted by: Claire B | November 26, 2009 6:32 PM

The Cyrillic at the start was just like a recipe, 50g sugar? I'm not fluent in Russian, but it doesn't seem that demonic.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 26, 2009 6:35 PM

Pie evil? Oh no, we're having pasties for dinner...

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 26, 2009 6:40 PM

that's not pie, that's horta

also, pumpkin pie rules(and what do people have against squash? as far as I'm concerned, it's an essential food group)

and so does rhubarb pie, except for the weird version with orange juice in it.

Posted by: Tigana | November 26, 2009 6:44 PM

Rhubarb rocks, no matter what it is made into. Just finished making Rhubarb and Ginger Chutney and wondering if I should bin the "Winter Solstice" presents and use it as pie for me >evil laugh

Posted by: SEF | November 26, 2009 6:44 PM

Besides which, it's not Thanksgiving in the UK or most of the rest of the world. That's a peculiarly UnSAnian thing.

Posted by: WowbaggerOM | November 26, 2009 6:49 PM

Jadehawk wrote:

and what do people have against squash?

Lots of things. To use specific scientific terms it's icky and gross. Put it this way: I'd rather go to church than eat it! And, as I said, my distaste extends to all the members of the gourd family - including pumpkin.

In my opinion the best thing to put in pies is meat, preferably beef - though there's a bakery not far from me that does a brilliant chicken & mushroom pie which has light, flaky pastry on top with black poppy seeds.

Posted by: justin | November 26, 2009 6:55 PM

This is blasphemy!

Pumpkin pie with cool whip is probably the greatest thing ever.

Posted by: Aunt Benjy | November 26, 2009 6:57 PM

Mmmm...Rhubarb. The only fruit that makes your mouth feel like you have just thrown up. Yummy.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 26, 2009 6:59 PM

Nerd is having pasties for dinner?

'Tis, should you be robot 1 or robot 2 for Pharyngula, Expelled? Or the hominid narrator?

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 26, 2009 7:01 PM

I have had truly awesome squash soups. As to pumpkin pie... s'awright. There are better ways to end a meal.

As to rhubarb, I'm not intensely opposed to rhubarb... but... dunno... wouldn't go looking for it myself... Tho' any time I bring home strawberry rhubarb pie, my wife and kids demolish it with extreme prejudice. Even if I did want any, I'd probably have to fight for it...

... but what worries a bit about the stuff is how caustic it seems to be when you cook it. Many, many long centuries ago, in my distant youth, we lived on a property that had tons of the stuff--it's one of those rare (technically) edible things that actually grows on the shield up here with little encouragement.

... anyway, my mother often prepared it as a dessert thing--stewed with pile of sugar, it's edible, sure...

... but the scary thing: it would practically etch the pots you cooked it in. Got an ancient black burn in there that's been turned into something that might as well be a porcelain coating now that it's been cooked and recooked in so long? Just do some rhurbarb in there, and it's gone!

... scary. It's a good thing those notions 'bout aluminum exposure causing neurological trouble mostly turned out to be bogus, 'cos I'm pretty sure we were drinking the stuff in bulk with the rhubarb that had been cooked in it.

Posted by: Marie the Bookwyrm | November 26, 2009 7:09 PM

That didn't look like any pie that I've ever seen. (shudders)

As for real, true pies: Pumpkin is great, Pecan is better, but for me the apex is Chocolate French Silk Pie. I buy one for my birthday every year. :)

Posted by: cnocspeireag | November 26, 2009 7:13 PM

How dare you diss rhubarb?
I was born in the 'rhubarb triangle', well known in the more worthwhile regions of the UK.
As kids we used to shelter from the rain under the leaves of the wild stuff.
Rhubarb crumble is the food of the (hypothetical) gods. At least, when served with custard made with double cream and real vanilla pods.

Posted by: Alex Besogonov | November 26, 2009 7:17 PM

Ok, I'm Russian, here is translation.

The recipe is:
1) 1kg. of plums, 250g. of flour, 70g. of butter.
2) 50g. of sugar and 50g. of breadcrumbs.
3) One egg, salt, cinnamon, etc.
4) Make and knead dough using flour, water, salt and butter. Leave it for 30 minutes.
5) Roll out the dough.
6) Put filling on the dough (plums, sugar, breadcrumbs, egg).
7) Make a roll.
8) Lay out on baking sheet, bake on low heat.

And watch ...how it... BREATHES!

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 26, 2009 7:19 PM

Everything tastes better with cool hwhip...

This video brought to you by the sound [xʷ].

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 26, 2009 7:27 PM

Rhubarb doesn't just taste "sharp" - it's poisonous!

It contains oxalic acid - the only saving grace is that you wouldn't be able to eat a fatal dose - it would act as an emetic.

Also, kidney stones are calcium oxalate.

Oxalic acid is also contained in spinach. I find it pretty alient there.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 26, 2009 7:30 PM

This video brought to you by the sound [xʷ].

2)"phoneme" is an awfully awkward word for the sound a letter stands for; German and Polish seem to have better ones.

Posted by: cnocspeireag | November 26, 2009 7:33 PM

David Marjanović, the stems of rhubarb contain no significant amount s of oxalic acid, it's concentrated in the leaves, which is why you should never eat them.
I was brought up amongst it, I've eaten loads of the stuff, I'm an expert.

Posted by: cnocspeireag | November 26, 2009 7:35 PM

I'm still alive, which is my evidence for expertise, before you ask.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 26, 2009 7:40 PM

...because the difference between them isn't used to distinguish words, that's why.

*melodramatic sigh*

Rather try to imagine the wonders I can create from mashed potatoes and up to five spices. :-) Or basmati rice and pretty much the same spices. :-)

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 26, 2009 7:50 PM

your culinary preferences are entirely unsexy. I shall have to go back to drooling over your smarts exclusively, even if they do have the tendency to make me look like an idiot :-p

Posted by: cnocspeireag | November 26, 2009 8:07 PM

Cú Chulainn came to the shadowy castle of the female warrior Sgathach to be trained in martial arts at about 200 BC, well before anyone thought about being medaeival.
Her castle is not far from where I live now and I see the mountains named after Cú Chulainn whenever I open my front door
Why won't rhubarb grow on my land?

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 26, 2009 8:28 PM

Why won't rhubarb grow on my land?

Because it hates you. There's a vast underground rhubarb conspiracy aimed directly at you. Some June night, when you're least expecting it, your home, your bedroom, your bed will be invaded by hordes of murderous herbaceous perennials....

Oops, I've said too much. Now I'll have to barricade myself against rhubarb's accomplice, strawberries.

Posted by: Feynmaniac | November 26, 2009 8:30 PM

Damn David, how many languages do you speak?

Posted by: mythusmage | November 26, 2009 8:43 PM

A pie made out of a nut, or a pie made out of a gourd. You can eat the nut raw. Can you eat the gourd raw? I rest my case.

Calling rhubarb a food is like calling creationism a science.

Posted by: F | November 26, 2009 8:54 PM

Claire B @ 13

It doesn't get really scary until the "30 minutes" part.

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 26, 2009 9:12 PM

I knew pecan pie would enter the discussion. Worse than pumpkin if you ask me (but no one ever does). And in Texas, that's grounds for serious persecution. Hell, it's already gone there for me tonight.

Damn right. Pecan pie is an abomination, and must be stopped!

... but speaking of just downright gross holiday desserts, also butter tarts and mincemeat. What the hell? People eat this? For fun? Those people are freaks, I tell you, freaks.

(/And don't get me started on fruitcake. It is a wonder to me fruitcake has yet to be declared a restricted munition. If I were Colbert, fruitcake would be on notice.)

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 26, 2009 9:21 PM

In the event of marauding strawberry plants loose the pullets!

Posted by: Patricia, OM | November 26, 2009 9:43 PM

Nerd - My blueberries got stolen by the birdies, and I sorta let that go...then the elderberries were completely spoiled, and I started to get pissed, no wine. But the top theft this year was an entire tree of hazel nuts! Those damned Jays got ALL of them.

Posted by: Kevin_In_Philadelphia | November 26, 2009 9:45 PM

For the record, strawberry rhubarb pie is delicious.

Posted by: zack malson | November 26, 2009 10:01 PM

Rhubarb is phenomenal in cobbler. I agree with the general consensus on squashes, though. I was guilted into eating a side dish with squash today. It consisted of onion, apple, butternut squash, and spinich in some type of apple cider vinegar sauce. Not the best thing to have passed down my throat today :(

Posted by: I'ts me again....again | November 26, 2009 10:50 PM

While I remember, here's another couple of YouTube links. Not rhubarb, or any other kind of pie related, but worth a watch/listen non the less.
First up is "Charlie" by Chumbawamba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUZimSEpZ0U

A rocking little ditty about a local (to me at least) Shropshire lad, who went by the name of Charles Darwin. A quick look on the interwebs leads me to believe that he accidentally discovered a special sciency thing called "Evilution" after he saw some finches through a microscope that he was using as part of a plan to invent racism. Apparently he was a very busy man because he also found the time to enter into several well documented personal relationships with Adolf Hitler, Joe Stalin and Satan.....Oh, and he killed god.
Second tune is another Chumbas track going by the title "We Don't Go to God's House Anymore". My guess is that this was written after Charlie had finished god off, after all there would be no point going round to a dead blokes place would there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1JawSJJggE&feature=PlayList&p=A1AF47BB31255DE4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2

Incidentally this is followed by a live version of "Charlie" as part of a playlist.
And....apologies if these have been posted here many times before, though if they haven't, they should have!

Armed with truth we're stepping out
Come join the worldwide party
Charge your glass and face the world
We'll drink a toast to Charlie

Over the river and over the sea
Through holy storm and thunder
Steer a course for a brave new world
Of common sense and wonder.

Posted by: Mr T | November 26, 2009 11:24 PM

Today I ate a slice of pumpkin pie, topped with a healthy dollop of Cool Whip©. I defy thee, ye pumpkin pie haters.

It was good. I've had better pies, but it certainly helped to ease the pain of spending a day with my god-soaked family. "My sanity for a pie!", I cried inside, withdrew, and helped myself to a piece. All was marginally better for the moment, or at least a couple of things seemed to be.

It would not be unwise, if we were not to fail to begin to recognize that there may be "other ways of eating", beyond the reach of science! Surely I am the first to have proposed such a principle, so I will dub it "NOM", for Non-Overlapping Mastication. NOM NOM NOM.

Do not mock me, with your juvenile comparisons to such abominations as rhubarb pie, mincemeat pie, or gooseberry pie -- this only betrays a kind of pie-illiteracy. Without rigorous study and a properly guided faith in the all-encompassing goodness of the one True Pie, how would one know the difference between, say, a lemon meringue and a lemon cream? These finer, more irrelevant points often elude pie-skeptics, and thus I shall assume my pious pieological presuppositions are completely unassailable.

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | November 26, 2009 11:43 PM

I love rhubarb. nom nom nom. Pie, crumble, stewed, cobbler, sponge, whatever. I have some in the fridge now, stewed with raspberries and rosewater. Add to some good vanilla yoghurt (not that nonfat nonsugar sourish glop), and it's to die for.

It also seems pretty near unkillable in the garden, which in weeks of 30-35 degree heat is a bonus. Just add some seasol or dead carp liquid or manure or whatever, and off it goes.

Posted by: Philip Tucker | November 26, 2009 11:57 PM

Just to close a long circle, we shouldn't forget squirrel pie.

And remember, too, that in any recipe that calls for
squirrel, you can always substitute cat.

Posted by: SC, OM | November 27, 2009 12:12 AM

Happy Birthday to me! (And Huxley Laden, born in the last several hours - love the name, but my first choice is still Thierry...:P)

Probably have posted it before, but one of my theme songs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-o-s-5eAXc

Lovely Thanksgiving. Delicious food, including pecan pie.

Some wonderful people are taking me out for dinner tomorrow/tonight. I move again in a few days (3rd time in 6 weeks!). Coming home, in the deepest sense. You just know.

(I won't say anything about Honduras right now, as it's not possible to control my anger.)

Posted by: TheVirginian | November 27, 2009 12:21 AM

Sounds of indistinct grumbling, muttering.

Oh, Zeus! I thought that plebian masturbation thread would disappear. Certainly I would never be caught pontificating on it. Especially since it turns into an orgasm of meandering maudlin mastication about something silly. This time, it's pastry!

Background voice, as from a telephone.

No, No, I just glanced at it, enough to be fatigued very quickly. More Philistine forays into pseudo-intellectualism and low-class attempts at humor. Mark Twain must be giving thanks he never lived to see the Internet.

Sound of panting dog. Claw clicks on wood floor.

Yes, I know I posted once, but it was purely an unfortunate accident. I would certainly never knowingly comment on such a silly thread. I just left the microphone on. I was caught talking to myself. I made sure I turned it off this time before I called you.

Distant sound of door opening, closing. Distant footsteps.

Melissa just came back. I'll have to hang up soon. I admit it's sometimes a masochistic pleasure to read these "undying threads" that Professor Myers keeps going. It's something like scratching an itch. You don't want to do it, but you can't help create a sort of irritated pleasure. You read people babbling incessantly about cured pork products, nuns caught in obscene actions, and silliness about that weird gentleman in Rhode Island, H.Q. Lovewick, or whatever his name was. It is a guilty pleasure, as the plebes put it. Now, Olympus help us, he's got a brief video of a ...

Distant, electronified voice again.

Yes, I actually watched a video on a computer. I just can't help myself occasionally. Like watching a car wreck. It's a pastry being cooked, to ominous music. Oh, you're checking the site. You'll see what I mean about it being very very low class. Not for people like us. We have better things to do with our time than partake in such nonsense as ... What do you mean! I turned the microphone off! I swear I did!

Oh, Zeus ...

Posted by: David Estlund | November 27, 2009 12:47 AM

Tonight was delightful indeed! I'm usually forced to choose the lesser evil among pecan, pumpkin, or (heaven forfend) buttermilk pies. You can't just not eat pie, or you're that jerk. This year, the lord (which is what I decided to call my sister) had mercy upon me and made a cherry pie. Sheer delight. I like this thread. It's the undead thread, and it's not a unitasker. Alton Brown smiles upon us.

Posted by: llewelly | November 27, 2009 1:43 AM

Joshua Rosenau begins long awaited global conspiracy to ban all blogging.

Posted by: 386sx | November 27, 2009 1:51 AM

Not so fast...

"not ready for craziness"

Joshua Rosenau, "global ... blogging ... conspi[tor]"

http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/2009/11/dear_world.php

Posted by: Janine, She Wolf Of Pharyngula, OM | November 27, 2009 2:30 AM

I am so disappointed with the lot of you. Here is a thread about pies and pastries and no one brings up one of the most storied sellers of pastries of extreme disrepute, Cut Me Own Throat Dibler. What a sad lot of nerds you all are.

Posted by: DLC | November 27, 2009 3:04 AM

"What we need is to make the pie higher! "

Geo. W. Bush.

Posted by: JeffreyD | November 27, 2009 3:19 AM

SC, OM at #82, Happy Birthday to you of the beautiful brain. Missed you lately. (smile)

Jadehawk, want me to kidnap David and force feed him some squash to de-scrawnyize him for you? Been meaning to get over to the continent next year and it would be nice to have a goal. I would love to meet David myself, I think I have a man crush because of his brain. Oh, and I agree with you, squash, squash and more squash - roasted, baked, boiled, fried in tempura batter, soup, or just thin slices lightly salted. Ahhhhhhhh.

Ciao y'all

Posted by: Rorschach | November 27, 2009 3:30 AM

Happy Birthday SC queen of moving !!!

And i like rhubarb.Never noted any in Australia, maybe I didnt look for it.In pancakes or pudding thingies if I remember correctly from my childhood.

Pies, not so much,what is it with that.And pastries in Australia are a sad affair,that's really a european thing.
Try some vanilla pastries with honey in Portugal, with sweet black coffee or a cherry liquor.....Or some of the austrian fluff pastries,beautiful.

Posted by: TheVirginian | November 27, 2009 4:05 AM

Hello, yes, I'm sorry I hung up in such a hurry, but having that infernal microphone and transcriber record all of my commentary was just too ... too Philistine. I completely disconnected the microphone to be certain it is not on, so we can talk securely. Unless someone put a hidden microphone in here [laughter], there's no possibility of our conversation being overheard. The only person who could do that would be Melissa, and she knows her place. [Sound of liquid being poured into glass] This Scotch is the best. It cost $200 a bottle, but it's worth every penny. You must come over soon and have a snifter. As I was saying, Melissa is the only person who could slip a microphone in here, and I know she would never do that. I keep telling her she should be grateful I let her live here, given my exquisite taste and wealth.

Sounds of robe rustling and slurping of liquid. Buzzy voice from a telephone.

No, I must have somehow switched the microphone on when it actually was off. Just an accident. It is certainly not something Melissa would do. She knows better. I've taught her to know her position. She gets out of line occasionally, but I always straighten her out. Just the other day, she got upset and called me a pompous, pseudo-intellectual, posturing prig, and said she would make me regret being so overbearing and patronizing. I didn't know she knew words with that many syllables. It's like the people who comment on this thread. So much, as the Irish would say, blarney, so little thought. There actually are people who are claiming that pies made without lots of pecans are, well, good pies. Now, I can acknowledge that pies made with cherries or strawberries have a certain ... character, so I can see why some plebians like them. But really, only pecan pastries are edible. Everything else is just, well, mush for the mob.

Dog whimpers. Scratching on wood, as if at a door. Sound of a car engine in the distance.

Yes, yes, there was a certain, shall we say, street-level humor in the video of the ominous pie. The unwashed hoi-polloi certainly love it. But then, they don't worship pecan pies, which proves their inferior taste. It's like pouring single-malt Scotch over ice. Very declasse. That reminds me, my decanter is empty.

Scraping of chair. MELISSA! MELISSA!

Zeus take it, she's not answering. She knows better. I shall have to chastise her later. Where was I? Oh, yes, the pecan is the perfect pie ingredient. It's tasty, but crunchy, and is exquisite when mixed with sugar and other sweet ingredients. The perfect pie. The only pie. By comparison, everything else is swill. Of course [chuckling] I imagine Professor Myers eats pies made with calamari or octopi! The man is mad about cephalopods. He adores that E.P. Lovethirst, or whatever his name, and is always making Lovethrift jokes. That's why I won't comment on these "undying threads." It makes me one of the hoi polloi worshippers of a squid fan.

Feet thump on floor. Dog pants. MELISSA! MELISSA!

Where is that woman! She knows better. Anyway, just out of curiosity, let's see if this "undying thread" has had someone intelligent drop in. [Laughter] Yes, I know that's unlikely, but ...

Distant voice, buzzing on telephone. Fist pounding on desk.

What the frak!!!! How did ...! By Athena's boobs, only Melissa could do this. She had to have put a hidden microphone in here, and linked it to this idiotic blog! She must have! That woman will regret ...

Uh, I will have to call you back. I just got an email. It says "Payback's a bitch. I took the Rolls. Up yours! Mel."

Oh, Zeus ...

Posted by: Cosmic Teapot | November 27, 2009 4:24 AM

Happy birthday SC, I hope you have a good one.

_____________<;,><_____________

Pie is OK, but cake is heavenly. With tea, naturally.

Oh, wait, not heavenly, perhaps divine.

Whoops, no, definitely not divine.

Cake is the best.

Posted by: 386sx | November 27, 2009 4:52 AM

I live in the rhubarb-triangle (Yes it does exist) and it's not one of ours.

Why, of course it isn't. Nobody ever said it was. The rhubarb-triangle is not one of ours, and there is no conspiracy.

And what is wrong with rhubarb?

Why, absolutely nothing at all. Why, rhubarb is perfectly okay. Perfectly... okay...

Posted by: Chris the Linguist | November 27, 2009 5:08 AM

"phoneme" is an awfully awkward word for the sound a letter stands for.

Not to be pedantic about a digression in the midst of a silly thread, but... For the benefit of non-linguists (surely not statistically significantly different from "no one"), a phoneme is probably best understood as an abstract category grouping together what the speakers of a given language would classify as being "the same" sound. This makes phoneme a psychological/cognitive notion, and also gives rise to an operational definition: to see if two sounds belong to the same phoneme in a given language, you can just test whether speakers of that language behave as if the sounds are the indistinguishable.

Since language is a fundamentally discrete system implemented in an analog medium (sound waves), speakers need principles for sorting an infinite number of analog signals into a finite set of discrete categories. A language's phoneme inventory is the set of discrete categories into which the analog mess is sorted (by a process that is still very mysterious).

Oh, and there really is no connection with spelling systems, except incidentally. Insofar as the spelling system is intelligently designed (as in the case of Korean) we get good, maybe even one-to-one, phoneme-to-character mappings. In messier spelling systems (English, French) the mapping is much more haphazard and irregular (much of the mess in English and French spelling has to do with sound changes that took place after the spelling conventions were established, but that's another story).

OK, now back to pie...

Posted by: Knockgoats | November 27, 2009 5:13 AM

Happy Birthday, SC, OM! I promise I will read your thesis before the next one!

Posted by: Knockgoats | November 27, 2009 5:19 AM

Other people apparently have fairies at the bottom of their gardens but we, much more sensibly, have rhubarb! As well as being delicious when appropriately cooked, it is an excellent fairy-repellent: not a single one has been sighted in the garden since it was planted.

Posted by: Rorschach | November 27, 2009 5:30 AM

What we're heading for next (unless there's some other intervening pie festival somewhere out in the multiculturiverse) is the season of mince-pies -

The whole concept of pouring hot processed meat products into a pastry dough, smothering it with tomato sauce and trying to eat the thing while it falls apart at the seams and spills all over your hands and burns your tongue and gums is quite foreign to me......
But english and australian folks seem to think it's god's gift to mankind..:-)

Posted by: Stephen Wells | November 27, 2009 5:39 AM

It starts as a fairly conventional recipe but the bit in red at the very end is "...and watch how it.... BREATHES"

Posted by: Bectal | November 27, 2009 7:08 AM

Adding strawberries to a rhubarb pie is like slathering ketchup on a steak au poivre: despicable! I shudder.

Posted by: BFR | November 27, 2009 7:18 AM

Hmm Pie

Posted by: Luiz Borges | November 27, 2009 7:40 AM

Hellraiser Theme... that music bring back nice memories when horror movies were trully horrific.

Pinhead FTW!!!

Posted by: The Tim Channel | November 27, 2009 8:38 AM

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch you must first....invent the universe...

Enjoy.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 10:03 AM

well, it certainly explains the scrawniness

You think? I eat a lot of butter.

Oxalic acid is also contained in spinach. I find it pretty alient there.

What? Salient. (And alien, too, actually.)

your culinary preferences are entirely unsexy.

You have a strangely wide concept of "sexy". :-S

Anyway, apples are immensely popular on my mother's side of the family. And so is pumpkin, except it's much less readily available.

I shall have to go back to drooling over your smarts exclusively

Help! Help! I'm being objectified!

Have you tried planting it right beside your outhouse?

Or just on the dungheap. Doesn't need to contain actual dung, kitchen trash is enough.

Damn David, how many languages do you speak?

• German (natively, Austrian Standard and a very different dialect);
• English;
• French (my vocabulary isn't as large as I'd like, but I'm functional);
• Russian (mostly buried, and of course I didn't get terribly far in the 4 years I had it in school);
• Chinese (modern Mandarin – almost nothing, because learning vocabulary requires learning the characters if you don't want to end up illiterate, and… forget it… even in grammar I'm not where I could be);
• Spanish (I started last year and haven't done anything for months… :-/ ).

Then it gets fuzzy. Because of French and Latin (6 years in school), I can read scientific articles in Spanish and Italian, even though I don't read theropoda.blogspot.com anywhere near as often as I ought to. Because of Russian, I don't have to start at 0 in Polish, so my passive knowledge of that one has come surprisingly far in the 3 x 2 weeks I've spent there so far, though I still couldn't talk about anything much other than the anatomy of this beast.

Unfortunately I don't speak SerbocrBCSM, in spite of my surname. I was bilingual when I was 2 years old, but then my dad found a job in Paris, came home only once every 6 weeks, and I had nobody to talk to, so I forgot it all and don't even remember ever having known it. The real tragicomedy here is that pretty much the same thing happened to my dad's Hungarian when he was 5 years old – it's a family tradition. :-(

The court geologist Lord Josh determined that the earth surrounding the Dungeon intersected this world with the next. Hence the Dungeon was frequently referred to as The Intersection.

ROTFL!

Jadehawk, want me to kidnap David and force feed him some squash to de-scrawnyize him for you?

Beware. I can puke through the tubes of the Internet.

a phoneme is probably best understood as an abstract category grouping together what the speakers of a given language would classify as being "the same" sound.

That's the wording I was unable to produce yesterday night. Thank you.

operational definition: to see if two sounds belong to the same phoneme in a given language, you can just test whether speakers of that language behave as if the sounds are the indistinguishable.

Of course, that's sometimes easier said than done. There have been serious proposals to regard [h] and [ŋ] (the ng sound) as the same phoneme in English and German, because they have a complementary distribution – [h] only occurs at the beginning of syllables, [ŋ] only at the end. But surely nobody thinks of these as "the same sound"…?

messier spelling systems (English, French)

Except for proper names and certain small common words, French is regular one way: it's graphemic – if you have the written word in front of you, you can always correctly derive the pronunciation from it. That does not work in English (and occasionally runs into trouble even in German). Of course, French famously has lots of ways to write the same sound; it's very far from a phonemic orthography.

Enjoy.

I do! :-)

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 10:08 AM

Wikipedia article on "phoneme". I previously linked to the article on "phonology", the science of phonemes, which is, strangely, completely separate. The articles barely even mention each other.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 10:12 AM

Actually said on Pharyngula by Yorick:

Poe's Law.

Posted by: Lynna | November 27, 2009 11:48 AM

Janine, I forgot to mention earlier that I lapped up the music in the link you provided in your "Don't Slander Me" comment @863 on the previous installment of the endless thread. Great Blues.

Posted by: Xenithrys | November 27, 2009 12:41 PM

Disgusting pies? I have to tell you about when pizza came to New Zealand about 1960. Back then it was called pizza pie, so this is not OT (not that it matters on this thread). Pizza was made at home, like this:
Base. Scone dough (scone = tea biscuit in Canada, not sure what the US equivalent is), rolled out about 1-2 cm thick.
Topping. Canned spaghetti (don't ask) and cheese.
Fortunately something like real pizza came along eventually and rescued us.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 27, 2009 12:51 PM

But enough about π.
Let's talk about (m)e!

Visitin' fambly in North Cackalacky this weekend, and that means *shudder* dial-up.
Happy birthday SC!
Happy whatev, everybody else!
Count-resumption Sunday.

Posted by: SEF | November 27, 2009 1:08 PM

@ frozen_midwest #115:

You have something against deep-dish pizza?

Wouldn't that be some form of bread dough rather than pastry dough? This may or may not be significant for the addition of tomato sauce etc etc. Not that tomato sauce is usually added to genuine meat pies in the UK ... apart from the kiddy types obsessed with adding ketchup to everything.

Posted by: SEF | November 27, 2009 1:12 PM

who wouldn't love a bacon pie?

I wouldn't. As mentioned before, I think the pie-ification process is the evil part of such things.

Posted by: Aquaria | November 27, 2009 1:35 PM

The best pie I ever had was a banana caramel concoction that a distant relative made for Sunday dinner. I can't remember her name for love or money, but that pie was so good that I have never forgotten it 35 years after I had it. I've tried to make it, and I can't get it to work. Grrrrrr!

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 27, 2009 1:43 PM

Welcome back Josh. Alan B did a good series while you were gone.

Posted by: SEF | November 27, 2009 1:47 PM

I can't remember ... and I can't get it to work.

Is that something which can be pharyngulated? Perhaps the next sub-thread will be The Hunt For The Elusive Banana Caramel Pie.

Posted by: Alan B | November 27, 2009 1:54 PM

#139 Hi Josh

Welcome back! Pull up an armchair depression, forget the pie and have a slice of ecolgite.

http://www.museum.tohoku.ac.jp/nh/medium/eclogitm.jpg

When you catch up you'll find many people have tried to guess where you might be.

We've missed you (let's face it, if you don't know where someone is, it is difficult to aim). At the moment, the UK champion skillet thrower seems to be off practising so you may be safe.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 27, 2009 1:58 PM

The Hunt For The Elusive Banana Caramel Pie.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 27, 2009 2:05 PM

The Hunt For The Elusive Banana Caramel Pie.

Posted by: William Myers | November 27, 2009 2:15 PM

It's the recipe for CHERRY pie, not rhubarb.
The first ingredient is one kilo of cherries.
The undead heart of the vengeful bride comes in later, merely as an optional seasoning.

Posted by: Alan B | November 27, 2009 2:24 PM

#129 Lynna said:

@852, Alan B brought us to a scruffy site featuring fossils of the earliest known land animals in the world -- ironically located next to a dangerous intersection where unwary geologists can become the last of their kind.

I go to strange and dangerous places so others do not have to: and there are few places more strange than the land called Answers in Genesis!

Having consulted with the Baraminologists at AiG, I do not believe I am a separate kind, rather I am from a more evolved subspecies of Homo sapiens, Home sapiens geologicus. We are most commonly found as roadkill around major road cuttings. "Survival of the Flatist" as Charlie would not have said.

spot.pcc.edu/~mhutson/vernonia/CoastRange/1FirstStop.jpg

epod.typepad.com/.a/6a0105371bb32c970b011571a396c4970b-750wi

igs.indiana.edu/Survey/news/images/20060928_MonroeCoClass&Fieldtrip/MonroeGeology106_t.jpg

www.uky.edu/OtherOrgs/KPS/goky/images/plate034fig2s.jpg
"Somebody bring back the ****** ladder!"

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 27, 2009 2:36 PM

DE, the wife is a redhead, referred to as the Redhead. I patterned my moniker on Bride of Shrek.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 2:37 PM

The first ingredient is one kilo of cherries.

No, plums. No cherries to be seen.

Home sapiens geologicus.

And you still use a spellchecker at your age? I continue to be amazed at just how fucked up the English spelling system is.

Posted by: Alan B | November 27, 2009 2:45 PM

#154

It told her, and I told her, and I told her.
Always wear good running shoes on a field trip:

farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3456345709_d76e81cf17.jpg

www.gho-englisch.de/Archive/2005/Jul_05/off-road%20kill.gif

www.ryangladstone.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dino_roadkill.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsidEpWmFfY
(he seems to be popular - glad he's not from the UK)

Posted by: Alan B | November 27, 2009 2:50 PM

Gourd to sea David Marjanović, OM, isstill awayke and jeeping us in lyne!

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 2:52 PM

It's only 20:53 over here, so that I'm awake is not a surprise…

Posted by: wistah | November 27, 2009 4:44 PM

Rhubarb pie is slimey. That's not cool in pies, really.

If I had my way, I'd go with lemon meringue. Low on the slime scale and high on the tart scale--with the meringue thing somewhere in the middle of the tasteless scale. At least meringue is kinda fluffy/foamy. Ixnay on the limeskay.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 27, 2009 5:06 PM

Unfortunately I don't speak SerbocrBCSM, in spite of my surname. I was bilingual when I was 2 years old, but then my dad found a job in Paris, came home only once every 6 weeks, and I had nobody to talk to, so I forgot it all and don't even remember ever having known it.

what I'd really like to know though is how my brother and my dad communicate, since my dad doesn't speak German; and I do know that they communicate somehow, since we left them alone together for a week once, and they somehow managed to cooperate :-p

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 5:53 PM

I'm eating jambón serrano. Does that count as bacon?

(With plenty of butter, and the best bread you can find in a French supermarket, though that doesn't say much.)

I've no idea how scrawny guys manage to stay scrawny.

I just stop eating when I'm out of hunger. Even if that means that I've been shoveling spoonful after spoonful of some cheap imitate of chocolate cornflakes into my cakehole for an hour or three (as happened today). Comes naturally. :-)

and I do know that they communicate somehow, since we left them alone together for a week once, and they somehow managed to cooperate :-p

And neither of them is telling?

Posted by: Chris the Linguist | November 27, 2009 5:55 PM

ack, the above should read "from a working phonologist". My apologies.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 27, 2009 6:00 PM

I just stop eating when I'm out of hunger.

And neither of them is telling?

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 27, 2009 6:46 PM

unless you're implying that you're simply rarely ever hungry.

Well, of course the true reason is that my brain is so far in overdrive I can barely keep up eating fast enough to keep it going...

Maybe I am less hungry than other people (more sensitive to leptin or something). Who knows. Though right now I'm eating chocolate cookies because the bread wasn't enough.

Posted by: Janine, She Wolf Of Pharyngula, OM | November 27, 2009 7:24 PM

Happy birthday, Ol' Salty. Was it yesterday or today?

Posted by: MrFire | November 27, 2009 8:11 PM

And I've been through them to see if they match up to how she made it--no luck.

Aquaria,

Does Banoffee pie resemble what you had at all?

jambón serrano

Is that a French version of jamón serrano? :)

Do you also eat steak tartare? If so, I can think of an explanation for your apparent scrawniness...;)

Posted by: Feynmaniac | November 27, 2009 8:22 PM

Mmmmm, pi....

Posted by: Lynna | November 27, 2009 8:50 PM

Alan B @154

We are most commonly found as roadkill around major road cuttings.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 27, 2009 9:09 PM

22/7

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 27, 2009 9:20 PM

#include <math>
#include <iostream>

...

cout << 2. * asin(1.) << endl;

(/'n Happy Birthday, SC.)

Posted by: Josh | November 27, 2009 9:27 PM

And, of course:

Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday; Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday; Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday; Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday; Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday; Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday...
*deep breath*
Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Happy Birthday...Happy Happy Happy Happy Birthdaaaaay!

Posted by: Feynmaniac | November 27, 2009 9:28 PM

Claim: π=3
Proof

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." - 1 Kings 7:23

30/10=3 □

Posted by: Kel, OM | November 27, 2009 9:30 PM

Happy birthday SC!

Posted by: Josh | November 27, 2009 9:39 PM

Get some rest. Sounds like you need it.

You're wise, Nerd. Very...

I'm out. I'll check you chaps in the AM.

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 27, 2009 9:43 PM

Re #195 ...

... mkay ...

... so ... umm... will Kanab (or perhaps Utah in its entirety) also be passing pro-alien marriage legislation shortly?

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 27, 2009 10:01 PM

You could run for office there on that platform, perhaps.

Hee hee...

I can see the campaign spots already... They're all in black and white, with frightened rural types standing around in dark, Ed Wood-quality studio cornfields, the soundtrack heavy on theremin...

MARY: (She's a farm girl/cheerleader type) Did you hear that?

BIFF: (He's a square-jawed varsity linebacker type) Hear what, Mary?

MARY: That sound? That scary sound?

BIFF: The theremin?

MARY: No, silly... the other scary sound...

BIFF: Aw gee, Mary, you know you're safe with me... (leaning in to make his move...) What did it sound like?

MARY: Swatches... I'm sure it was swatches...

(BIFF's face turns pale... his arm, which he'd been about to wrap around MARY, freezes in terror...)

BIFF: Omigod, it's...

(Jarring chord in soundtrack... the title splashes dramatically across screen, in blood-curdling pink, cutting him off...)

TITLE: 'THE GAY ALIENS!!!'

Posted by: Lynna | November 27, 2009 10:15 PM

Regarding the campaign videos, "The Gay Aliens!!!" -- truly, AJ, this is such a stupendous idea that you need to aim higher, artistically speaking. Surely this is worthy of a fuller treatment, as in a movie script.

You may have to adjust your setting. Very little of Kanab and its surrounding area are suitable for corn (not enough water). However, you can make full use of the dramatic red rock formations, limited amounts of muddy river water, and lots and lots of ranchers. Cows and cowboys are good plot devices, and they mix well with aliens. There are even some spooky cowboy line shacks not far from Kanab. (Line shacks are bare-bones shelters that cowboys live in while they keep cows in line without the benefit of fences. Line shacks used to be common in the wild west. A line shack strikes me as an ideal place for unsuspecting persons to be waylaid by gay aliens.)

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 27, 2009 10:41 PM

...A line shack strikes me as an ideal place for unsuspecting persons to be waylaid by gay aliens...

Ahhh... perfect:

Scene: at a line shack ... two hands, restin' up, but not quite out, night coming in....

LUKE (clean-shaven, gangly, one of those weirdly ageless cowpoke types... baby-faced, but could be forty, for all you know) It's weird, tho'...

WALT (Old guy, w/ paunch and four days of beard... he'd just been dozing off... opens one eye) What's weird?

LUKE: How they found 'em, I mean.

WALT: Thought we weren't gonna talk about that no more.

LUKE: Aw, you don't believe that stuff, do ya?

WALT: What stuff?

LUKE: That they can make ya just like them, iffen ya think about it too much.

WALT: Folks talk, Luke, that's all I'm sayin'... And look at what happned to Bernie...

LUKE: Thought you didn't want to talk about Bernie.

WALT: Well ah reckon we are now, anyway, ain't we?

LUKE: Reckon we are.

WALT: He always talked about 'em. And look how they found 'im.

LUKE: It was a nice suit, sure...

WALT: Nice? Guys from this planet don't dress like that, Luke. Let alone die like that. And those shoes, boy...

LUKE: What about the shoes?

WALT: The shoes, boy, they were *fabulous*!

LUKE: (looks shocked... reaches edgily for gun...) What was *that* you just said, Walt?

WALT: (smiles, laughs) Ah, I'm just messin' with ya, boy.

LUKE (looks relieved, hand loosens from gun) Aw, that ain't funny, Walt.

WALT: Shoulda seen the look on your... Wait... did you hear that?

LUKE (looks startled again... then smiles) Aw, cut it out, Walt.

WALT: No, boy, I'm serious... What *is* that?

(Faint sound of a synth bass, from far off)

LUKE (turning pale) Well I'll be... Oh God... no...

WALT (whispering now, terrified) That's C+C Music Factory, boy... Ah knows it is...

LUKE (whispering) They're after the cows!

WALT (whispering) Boy... we can't let 'em get 'em... Remember what happened out at the ole' Barnett place?

LUKE (whispering) All they found was a pasture fulla Gucci bags...

(/...And AZ border, huh? I was in Phoenix just like three weeks ago... So I might sorta have this... Same kind of terrain?)

Posted by: Lynna | November 27, 2009 11:08 PM

Whoops, forgot to include the link to the photo of Paria Townsite, and it's the one that is most applicable to your campaign/movie/comic gay opera?
http://www.wildernessbooks.com/lee/lee/western.html

Posted by: David Estlund | November 27, 2009 11:27 PM

Before pie is completely off-topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wdUTn6W_zw

The Pi Song.

Posted by: Carlie | November 27, 2009 11:50 PM

For Josh and Alan

Posted by: Lynna | November 28, 2009 12:13 AM

OMG wedding dress

Posted by: Aquaria | November 28, 2009 12:20 AM

Lynna: I thought the Robot exhibition link was somehow...appropriate.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 28, 2009 1:58 AM

Mr. Pivar's bride?

Posted by: Alan B | November 28, 2009 4:50 AM

#210 Carlie So they allowed one of you to go behind the scenes at the creation dino museum ...
Thank you!

#212 Lynna No thank you! Call me old fashioned [Ed. Well, you are old fashioned!] but there are things that only a husband and your babies should have to have the pleasure of seeing.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 28, 2009 6:25 AM

Owlmirror #217

Get your own piece of pi.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 28, 2009 6:39 AM

Thank you, Kel, for the link to the Mayr article.

Having just typed that, it strikes me as an interesting quirk about the many ways there is to spell our host's last name.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 28, 2009 6:45 AM

Having just typed that, it strikes me as an interesting quirk about the many ways there is to spell our host's last name.

Posted by: Rorschach | November 28, 2009 6:54 AM

PZ Mayr you evil atheist commie !!

And WB Josh !!

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 28, 2009 8:31 AM

Is that a French version of jamón serrano? :)

Oh for crying out loud, it is. <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> I did restore the accent, which is missing on the package, but didn't notice the b.

Do you also eat steak tartare?

Nope. And I never had jamón serrano before, as far as I remember. I just want to know: does it count as bacon!?!

OMG wedding dress

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Mr. Pivar's bride?

That's at least original :-)

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 28, 2009 8:37 AM

Yeah, OK, translucent.

And... pumpkin pie for breakfast... what next, baked beans?!?

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 8:47 AM

And... pumpkin pie for breakfast... what next, baked beans?!?

Have done, actually...

Posted by: Knockgoats | November 28, 2009 9:03 AM

Since this is the open thread, the following is right on topic. (Note for colonials: "elk" is the correct name in English of what you call "moose".)

Sweden woman's 'murder' committed by elk not husband

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 28, 2009 9:10 AM

(Note for colonials: "elk" is the correct name in English of what you call "moose".

Note for Britons: Elks and moose are not the same critter.

Posted by: Britomart | November 28, 2009 9:15 AM

Is Rhubarb Custard pie in the canon ?

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 28, 2009 9:29 AM

Is Rhubarb Custard pie in the canon?

personally, I'm a Pie Universalist :-)

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 28, 2009 9:39 AM

personally, I'm a Pie Universalist :-)

Does that make me a Pie Atheist then?

ATHIER·THAN·THOU

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 9:46 AM

there was a Deep Rift between the Pumpkin Pie eaters and the Rhubarb Pie eaters. personally, I'm a Pie Universalist :-)

I also straddle this rift,* as long as there are strawberries involved with the latter taxon.

*Yes, it's exactly that painful, thanks.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 28, 2009 9:50 AM

It's more closely related to the crocodiles and the birds than to the snakes, but that's pretty much all we can tell. That's where the term "Triassic hellasaur" comes from.

But in any case it's not from the Garden of Eden. It swims.

Also, snakes have mobile skulls, not such a robust monolithic block... which is remarkably robust and monolithic for this kind of animal as well, actually. And it's about 2 1/4 times as old as the oldest known snakes.

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 9:53 AM

note to Americans: yes they are (Swedish Elk crossing sign)

I love the smell of faux taxonomy in the morning. It smells like...it smells like...

Fuck. David, what's that smell?

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 28, 2009 9:59 AM

But in any case it's not from the Garden of Eden. It swims.

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 10:04 AM

I've been told that everyone read Mayr, because he had such a good style, and nobody read Hennig, who had an excruciatingly nitpicking philosophical style that can be impenetrable at times...

I've not read all that much of either, but based on what I have, I'd agree with that interpretation of their styles.

...Willi Hennig being the guy who single-handedly took phylogenetics out of the "historical narrative" ( = just-so story) stage and made a science slightly more rigorous just-so story out of it.

*ducks away from David's punch*

Sorry--David is correct. It was just such an easy target...

I blame the pie.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 28, 2009 10:11 AM

*ducks away from David's punch*

Posted by: Knockgoats | November 28, 2009 10:20 AM

From what little I've read about him [Kurt Wise], it does seem like there's stuff he just doesn't know about. David Marjanović, OM

I'm sure, but it's not the stuff he doesn't know that's the real problem - it's all the stuff he knows that just ain't so!

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 10:27 AM

Yay...birthday!

HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!*

As I get continually older, I view each new birthday with increasing, I dunno...sadness?...annoyance?...something. And as my next one peeks at me from the horizon, I feel whatever it is creeping up again. As such, I'm gonna do my best to ignore it. However, I will still enthusiastically toast those around me who view their birthdays with more maturity than I view my own.

*belated.

Posted by: Feynmaniac | November 28, 2009 10:31 AM

Happy Birthday SC, and everybody else who had a birthday recently.

Posted by: Lynna | November 28, 2009 10:51 AM

Feynmaniac @259

Utah State Sen. Chris Buttars:
I meet with the gays here and there. They were in my house two weeks ago. I don't mind gays. But I don't want 'em stuffing it down my throat all the time. Certainly not in my kid's face.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 28, 2009 10:56 AM

AGW-denialism in the Wall Street Journal: Rigging a Climate 'Consensus'

a little sample:

The real issue is what the messages say about the way the much-ballyhooed scientific consensus on global warming was arrived at, and how a single view of warming and its causes is being enforced. The impression left by the correspondence among Messrs. Mann and Jones and others is that the climate-tracking game has been rigged from the start.

I'm sure y'all will be surprised at the WSJ taking that position [/sarcasm]

Posted by: Lynna | November 28, 2009 11:08 AM

Uh-oh, I made a mistake. I said @255 that on the day after my birthday I had pie, bacon and coffee for breakfast. But, I had CAKE, bacon, and coffee for breakfast. Oh, this is unforgivable.

Posted by: Phrogge | November 28, 2009 1:55 PM

Gosh, did you know that today is International Aura Awareness Day?!

(This cries out for Comic Sans, but I don't know how to apply it; sorry.)

"International Aura Awareness Day

While every one of us has one, few people give much thought to their energy body. Also known as the aura, these shining bodies of light have been recognized for millenia to exist in all living things. Since dark or damaged auras are early warning indicators of every kind of physical, emotional, and psychological problem, it is clear that you can improve your health by taking one day each year to examine your aura. November 28, 2009 will mark the seventh annual International Aura Awareness Day."

More information than you really want at http://realityshifters.com/pages/auraday.html

Woo-hoo, I mean woo-woo!!

Posted by: Lynna | November 28, 2009 3:29 PM

A Moment of Mormon Madness from the past: As we all know, the mormons didn't allow blacks into the priesthood until 1978. But did you know that the stumbling block had been God all along?

We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of colour could now gain entry into the priesthood. According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.
     Even in this 'revelation', God is not given the glory- instead it is the wisdom and the prayers of Kimball which tipped the balance. But what was the true story behind this?
     In 1978 the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was under increasing pressure by the US government to end its racist doctrine and teachings or lose its tax-free status. Additionally, the church leadership saw the expansion in countries such as Brazil to be one big embarrassment to them.
     Add to that the fact that not only black athletic teams were refusing to compete with teams from the racist Brigham Young University and the die was cast. Assuming that poor and ignorant black people in large populations like Brazil were joining the church, what would it do when some of the smarter ones decided to ask the unspeakable?

Posted by: deadwildroses.wordpress.com | November 28, 2009 4:04 PM

Belated Happy Thanksgiving.

I thought I'd shamelessly promote a review of a recent Sun Media article in which nigh-famous writer Michael Coren attempts to cast ill favour on the political aspirations of Sara Palin. Instead he comes across as a misogynistic douche-nozzle.

Mr. Coren would fit in nicely with the Faux News network bunch as his latest comment was on how global warming is a scientific conspiracy, based on lies and misinformation.

I think he needs to publish less often, its hard to keep up with the burning stupid.

Posted by: Phrogge | November 28, 2009 4:46 PM

The auror... the auror....

Posted by: Kel, OM | November 28, 2009 4:59 PM

Glad there was some discussion / criticism of the article. Puts things into perspective for laymen like me.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 28, 2009 5:18 PM

*ducks away from David's punch*

considering how I imagine the two of you look like, that mindpic you just gave me is just awesomely hilarious.

I thought so, too, but if he's only one-seventy-eight... I'm one-seventy-five... However, I have under 60 kg. That makes what, 130 lb? 140? I'm not going to do much punching.

(I much prefer kicking people in the belly. If I punched people, I'd only hurt myself with not much further effect. All the musculature is where I need it for running away!)

As I get continually older, I view each new birthday with increasing, I dunno...sadness?...annoyance?...something. And as my next one peeks at me from the horizon, I feel whatever it is creeping up again. As such, I'm gonna do my best to ignore it.

What you need is this song from Soviet children's TV.

(We had the song in our textbook. Not any pictures, though. Urgh. Anything communist that's for children has a certain... flair... even though there's some diversity in there – Titoist children's books are sickly sweet, not grey like this.)

Haaaa! Here's the whole text with two English translations when you click on "more info".

(...Just what are the Czech crackers doing at 1:11?)

This cries out for Comic Sans, but I don't know how to apply it

style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"

inside a <p>, <blockquote>, <span> or <a> tag. In <blockquote> it works only for the first paragraph, so use <p> for every quoted paragraph.

in the 1940s

Publication 1950, English translation 1965, first serious applications... like... 1984.

And Sokal and Sneath are of questionable importance here; they are responsible for all the computer stuff that has made phylogenetics at all feasible, but they didn't even want to phylogenetics. They did phenetics – measurement of similarity regardless of its cause. One of them even said he had no idea what you'd want to do with a phylogeny once you had it <headdesk>.

So Kimball had to beg God to relent?

<headdesk>

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 5:58 PM

I thought so, too, but if he's only one-seventy-eight... I'm one-seventy-five... However, I have under 60 kg. That makes what, 130 lb? 140? I'm not going to do much punching.

Yeah, I've got a bit of mass on you. And there's the minor point that I know how to do a lot of damage when I hit someone. How about we just not fight*? We'll solve any disagreements verbally.

Or...or...how about through mastication? We can argue by eating pie. Or bacon! But not bacon-pie.
That would be wrong...

*He proposes, after being the one who wrote the word punch in the first place.

Posted by: Dania | November 28, 2009 6:02 PM

I just got back from a birthday party and there was pie... Chickpea pie. Sweet chickpea pie. It was delicious.

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 6:08 PM

I actually rather like pasties.

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 6:14 PM

Demented Rice Crispy is another fantastic band name.

And "agreed" to the general spirit of that comment.

Posted by: Knockgoats | November 28, 2009 6:16 PM

Josh, David

I've actually read Hennig's Phylogenetic Systematics. For someone without any biology qualification beyond O-level (not sure what the US equivalent is, if any: 2 years before finishing "high school"), I think you'll grant that shows considerable perseverance.

*Blows own trumpet*

I even had a go at some "transformed cladists" (Patterson?), but got the impression they were nuts.

Posted by: Knockgoats | November 28, 2009 6:19 PM

Tsk. That Nick Gotts, complaining about people using nyms! What a twerp!

Posted by: Sili | November 28, 2009 6:28 PM

Just what are the Czech crackers doing at 1:11

Posted by: Josh | November 28, 2009 6:34 PM

Will try it someday...

I really does sound revolting, but I will try pretty much anything once.

Posted by: Dania | November 28, 2009 7:04 PM

but I will try pretty much anything once.

Me too, which is why they managed to convince me to try it. And also because it didn't look revolting. I'm trying to find a picture on Google... This one looks close, but not quite like it.

I could post the recipe* if anyone's interested, but then don't blame me. :)

*Well, it wouldn't be off-topic...

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 28, 2009 7:27 PM

Knockgoats--Its a tough read. I'd toot my own horn too if I had read it of my own volition. @David...the reason I said 1940's was that Hennig had formulated all of his ideas for the manuscript as a prisoner of war*...publication was delayed.

*or claimed to anyway.

Posted by: MrFire | November 28, 2009 7:58 PM

I'm willing to try anything.

Balut.

Hákarl.

Happy Meal Pizza.

That is all.

Posted by: raven | November 28, 2009 11:44 PM

WOW!!! The troll whose name shouldn't be mentioned in Montreal just resurfaced with some of his zippy one liners.

It has been a while. My theory was that he was picked up by the police and sent to a well deserved spot in a mental hospital.

It doesn't seem to have worked though. Same old stuff.

I give him a day to show up here.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 29, 2009 12:39 AM

Michael Egnor wants to defund organized science and replace all the scientists...

and of course the biggest damage done is to climate science; and people like the Curmudgeon aren't helping with their politically inspired "skepticism" of perfectly valid science

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 29, 2009 1:21 AM

13443

Posted by: 386sx | November 29, 2009 2:53 AM

Wow, there are a lot of continuity errors in the original The Terminator movie. And a lot of disco too! I would classify it as a disco film genre.

Posted by: 386sx | November 29, 2009 3:38 AM

Speaking of famous classic movies with a lot of continuity errors...

Reynolds was the pastor of the First Baptist Church of Beverly Hills, and was persuaded by infamous producer/director Edward D. Wood Jr. to finance what turned out to be his most famous film, Plan 9 from Outer Space (1959). The picture was originally to be called "Graverobbers from Outer Space", but Reynolds and his Baptist colleagues thought the title was blasphemous, so it was changed to "Plan 9 from Outer Space".

Posted by: 386sx | November 29, 2009 4:04 AM

My new hero.

Posted by: Alan B | November 29, 2009 4:25 AM

#281 Nerd of Redhead
#284 Josh

I always knew that we had here 2 men of good taste - and this proves it!

Pasties - a culinary delight, brought to you by the good people of Cornwall. (I will claim them as English although some would disagree preferring that 'Kernow' should be considered as the fifth home nation.)

Cornish Pasties: a gift from England to the discerning palates of the world! (The Wiki article is surprisingly good.)

Another great meal from England - the Ploughman's lunch. Stilton cheese** (scooped out from a whole cheese) and fresh crispy bread, washed down with cider (or your choice of Real Ale). A fantastic lunch. You have so much to be grateful to England for ...

(**substitute GOOD quality English Cheddar if you prefer. There is a great cheese stall at Ludlow Market where you can get something worth eating. As well as world class geology, there is world class food available at Ludlow.)

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 29, 2009 4:55 AM

You have so much to be grateful to England for ...

Such a great straight line. But since Alan B is such a nice guy, I'll refrain.

Posted by: Alan B | November 29, 2009 6:40 AM

#316
I know, I know. 'it' should be 'is'. And the word order is none to good.
I blame Ed.!

Posted by: Dania | November 29, 2009 7:08 AM

I blame Ed.!

Nah. That wasn't Ed. It was clearly the work of Rev's omnipresent typo cooties.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 29, 2009 8:31 AM

fresh crispy bread

You mean there actually is such a thing as good bread in England???

Was brought to you by the Ludlow Tourist Board. I get paid in brachiopods.)

Gorstian or Ludfordian ones?

I blame Ed.!

And Ed. blames you, right? :-]

Posted by: Alan B | November 29, 2009 10:41 AM

Update on the work carried out at MUNW:

It turns out that the recording is, in fact, the transcript taken from a conversation between ace reporter Tril O'bite of the Silurian News and his editor - Ed (not to be confused with Ed.). It's hard to tell but Tril seems to have an Irish accent.

Tril: Well boss, I finally got here.

Ed: At Last! Where have you been - your great ... great grandfather set out during the Wenlock. What kept you?

Tril: You'd never believe it, boss, but every time my relatives set out, they found that the ocean had got wider. I finally caught up in the tropics.

Ed: You sure you weren't playing in the surf of your tropical island - watching palm trees swaying, taking in the beautiful corals. I'll be having a really good look at your expense claim, Tril.

Tril: No, nothing like that. There's no trees here, boss - I'm told it will take a bit longer for them to grow. Found some bits of small plants washed into the surf and an odd "thing" - like a worm but with lots of legs. And talking about lots of legs, there are some tiny spider-like things. They had drowned (yes, delicious, thank you) but they were no more than 1 mm with 8 legs - nice snack, though.

Ed: If food is available, don't expect to claim it on your expenses! Anything unusual?

Tril: I did have a thought ...

Ed: You are not paid to think - you've got several dozen eyes - you are paid to look and report. But let's hear you - it will be good for a laugh. What have you got?

Tril: This is the first time we've seen life on the land boss so it's a real scoop. Unfortunately, I can't cover it being a bottom feeder. What's the progress on (drops voice) "Project Tiki"?

Ed; That's supposed to be secret. We don't want the other guys to know about (drops voice) "Project Tiki". We are just about to reveal it but there has been a delay.

Tril: Pity - what's the problem?

Ed: Problem is the fingers and toes. Seems like the designers can't work out how many to give it. They've tried 5, 6, 7, 8 ... but no conclusions as to what is optimum. But we're there now. (drops voice) "Project Tiki" will be perfect for the story. Anything else?

Tril: Sorry, boss. Must hunker down. There's a storm coming.

The ripples show a break in time.

Tril: That was a bad one. Really stirred up the sand in the lagoon - pretty pattern of layers in the sand though and some more things washed off the land. Turned out one was really tasty - seems to have been a pellet excreted from one of those leggy wormy thing.

Ed: Come on. You're paid to get news - not write the restaurant reports ...

Tril: There was one thing. At the end of the storm there was a lot of lightning ...

[well educated our Tril. Got a Liberal Arts degree some place in what became "Morris" - but this is not key to our report].

Ed: That's not news.

Tril: But it started a fire in the plants on the land. Went slowly because the plants were wet but I found bits of charred plants in the water here. This is the first report of a wildfire ever - surely that's news?

Ed: Could be. [Time gap] I've got it:

"Wildfire Sweeps Across the Land. Many dead. Greens say, 'We should do more to protect our plants.'"

The ripples end here. Truly, this is an amazing discovery. It's the closest thing to a video that we have for the Ludlow/Pridoli boundary. But will anyone outside of Seattle and MUNW accept it ...?

(References to follow)

Posted by: Alan B | November 29, 2009 10:46 AM

#324

Changed my mind.

See if anyone else can come up with references in the peer reviewed literature to support Tril's story.

Posted by: Feynmaniac | November 29, 2009 12:05 PM

Damn you Rev.!!! That should obviously be Dawkins.

Posted by: Lynna | November 29, 2009 12:16 PM

@322

Was brought to you by the Ludlow Tourist Board. I get paid in brachiopods.)
Gorstian or Ludfordian ones?

BTW, payment in brachiopods puts you at the bottom of the geological pay scale, right? What happens when you get a raise?

Posted by: blf | November 29, 2009 12:27 PM

[P]ayment in brachiopods puts you at the bottom of the geological pay scale, right? What happens when you get a raise?

That would be an earthquake. Which means he'd now be paid in playboy bunnies or something more eroticexotic… (at least according to the recently, ah, proven, link between 'quakes and porn).

Posted by: Lynna | November 29, 2009 12:37 PM

And the discovery was made at an English University, the Metropolitan University of Nether Wallop

Posted by: Britomart | November 29, 2009 1:46 PM

About that chick pea pie, please add me to the ones who would like the recpie. Husband loves chickpeas, doesn't like pie, I wonder what he will make of this one!

Thank you kindly

Posted by: Alan B | November 29, 2009 2:13 PM

BTW, payment in brachiopods puts you at the bottom of the geological pay scale, right? What happens when you get a raise?

I get more brachiopods, more, more, MORE

I corner the Silurian brachiopod market. I control the publishing rights. My name appears on every paper on brachiopods. When I tell a brachiopod to jump it says, "How high?" I rule the brachiopod world!!!

(exits hysterically stage Left)

Ed. Sorry about that folks. Alan B does get a bit excited at times. Probably hasn't taken his tablets today.

Posted by: Lynna | November 29, 2009 4:58 PM

I have a few brachiopods gathered from the southern end of the Lemhi Range. I'm going to put them some place safe, where Alan B can't find them. (That man has gone off the deep end.)

Posted by: Owlmirror | November 29, 2009 6:04 PM

[crossposting from the old "Kent Hovind is still in jail" thread, which will no doubt lie dormant for some indeterminate period of time before some creationist returns to scold us]

@ David Marjanović

And then you mess it up with a stupid classification. :-( (You even get the classification wrong – you can't have a class inside a class, let alone inside a suborder.)

I blame Wikipedia, which I used to get the summary, because I didn't know exactly how to express it without doing a tree. They call Aves a class (which seemed wrong to me, but I wasn't sure what else to put).

If Aves is not a class, then is Aves just another suborder?

Or are you saying that the entire Linnean system should be junked anyway?

Is there a briefer way to explain how birds are dinosaurs without showing a tree? Or would you just show a shorter tree?

Posted by: Josh | November 29, 2009 7:08 PM

Fucking Wikiblabbia.

Aves is a clade. As David wrote, the Linnaean ranks above genus (he would probably say below genus...) need to just be fucking done away with. Kicked out of the boat. It makes things a little hard to discuss sometimes, but it remains the case nonetheless.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 29, 2009 7:15 PM

I have discovered the existence of Environmental Sociology*. Now I need to figure out whom I have to kill to get tuition money. Though, judging from my past luck with anything involving academia, something will go wrong anyway, and I'll never finish the degree; again. The universe hates me :-p

---

*I fully blame the sociology part on SC and MAJeff

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 29, 2009 7:22 PM

The Linnaean system has the same probability of being scrapped for the phylocode as I do of becoming president of the Ornithological Society of Greenland. The Phylocode a vacuous, useless system. People name clades without it. "Specifier" my yarbles!

Posted by: Josh | November 29, 2009 7:25 PM

The Linnaean system has the same probability of being scrapped for the phylocode as I do of becoming president of the Ornithological Society of Greenland.

Heh--I think you probably have a greater chance of becoming president of the Ornithological Society of Greenland.

Posted by: Josh | November 29, 2009 7:29 PM

It's a hatin' thing, is rhubarb.

See? Now your just talkin' crazy.

Posted by: Alan B | November 29, 2009 7:39 PM

#342 Owlmirror said:

If Aves is not a class, then is Aves just another suborder?

I hesitate to get involved because there is disagreement as to whether we should be "arranging" animals by clades or using the Linnaean system. I can understand why the use of cladistics is favoured but I cannot see the Linnaean system being dropped for a while.

If we are to look at the older system (as Owlmirror was doing) then:

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/birds/birdsy.html

This then refers to the Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS) for more information. The direct link at ucmp is broken so I found this via Google:

http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt?search_topic=TSN&search_value=174371

(this being the page for Aves)

Kingdom Animalia
Phylum Chordata
Subphylum Vertebrata
Class Aves
Then 22 "Direct children" are listed, each of them referred to as an Order.

On this classification, it would appear that the Taxon "Aves" is a Class.

Posted by: Josh | November 29, 2009 7:46 PM

You smirk, but watch your ass the next time you're wandering through a field of rhubarb. Just sayin'.

Brother, I always watch my six.

It's kind of weird, but I really do like rhubarb. And my grandmother made a pie that...well...there isn't much I can say.

Squash now...that shit is just evil.

Alan, if you can tell me how the "family" Abelisauridae is equivalent to the "family" Tyrannosauridae, then you'll start to see the problem.

Posted by: Josh | November 29, 2009 7:52 PM

I think the rhubarb in the side yard is scared of my EEE width feet.

Growing up, we had some rhubarb plants that grew next to a blackberry patch behind the barn. I recall so many wasted afternoons forking hay that were only made bearable by chewing on stocks of that damn rhubarb (there were just too many hornets in the blackberries for them to be approachable*).

*I was a fairly timid little kid.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 29, 2009 7:57 PM

Sleep tight Alan B...

I like a good acorn squash, with lots of margarine/butter. Some of the other varieties, not so much.

I never developed a taste for rhubarb, but the Redhead usually makes one strawberry/rhubarb pie per year. Another case of planovers, to be frozen and served when desired...

Posted by: Lynna | November 29, 2009 8:45 PM

Abraham Lincoln's words in a rebuttal to Stephen Douglas in their debate of 13 October 1858--"as thin as the homeopathic soup that was made by boiling the shadow of a pigeon that had starved to death."

Just thought I'd throw that in there with absolutely no relevance to anything that has gone before.

I'm cleaning my computer screen after reading the suggestion that Josh move his "wasted afternoons forking hay" to the porn-tsunami thread.

G'night, Alan B. I talked to my brachiopods, but they refuse to come out of hiding.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | November 29, 2009 9:08 PM

If any of you wake up dead, having been done in by a cluster of rhubarb, don't come whining to me. I've warned you, that's all I can do.

Posted by: Sili | November 29, 2009 11:21 PM

If you want to worry about something, 'Tis, I suggest you look in the cow cabal.

Pearls Before Swine recently took it mainstream, and I fear that'll have caught the bovines by surprise. They will in all likelihood strike quickly now, even if prematurely, before the Truth becomes too wide known.

Trust me on this one; I was raised by cows. I know their wicked ways. :shudders: I know.

Posted by: Rorschach | November 30, 2009 6:30 AM

13000+ posts, and we havent had this fundamental bit of SciFi history posted yet !!!

http://vodpod.com/watch/2297857-aliens-i-say-we-take-off-and-nuke-the-entire-site-from-orbit

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | November 30, 2009 7:30 AM

oh fuck no... this isn't going to be one of those pun thread-derails where you guys milk the puns to death, is it?

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 30, 2009 8:56 AM

That would be butter for me...

Boooo...

Trust me on this one; I was raised by cows...

... there's something wonderfully Far-Side about that phrase... I'm seeing the classic square split two ways...

Left half: 'Raised by wolves', and it's the nerdy Far-Side bucktooth-n-glasses guy baying at the moon...

Right half: 'Raised by cows'...

(/...Same guy, moooing at the moon...)

Posted by: AJ Milne | November 30, 2009 9:20 AM

Oh, no, not at all...

I mean, after ruminating on 'em a while, I thought those were simply bovine.

Posted by: Carlie | November 30, 2009 10:24 AM

You people are really milking this for all it's worth.

(Oh ye gods, a grammar dilemma. Is the phrase supposed to refer to "for all it is worth", therefore an apostrophied contracted it's, or is it supposed to be for all of the worth that belongs to it, therefore possessive and not an apostrophied its? Both make sense!)

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 30, 2009 11:29 AM

You can always count on SC to take an idea and rennet into the ground. Cheese!

Posted by: Sphere Coupler | November 30, 2009 11:42 AM

New world record...

http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2009/PR18.09E.html

woo hoo.

Posted by: Dianne | November 30, 2009 12:40 PM

I know I'm late to the thread and it's moved on, but I just want to put in a good word for brownie like substances masquerading as pie. They're particularly good with chocolate crusts and ice cream. Now back to your regularly scheduled puns.

Posted by: Carlie | November 30, 2009 1:01 PM

Oh - happy birthday too, SC! Sorry I missed it whilst skimming to catch up.

I'm sure I've linked to this before, but bacon pie.

Posted by: Josh | November 30, 2009 1:34 PM

How does one "get suck" on the East Coast? Wouldn't that imply that there is actually somewhere else on earth that one might want to be?

*runs*

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 30, 2009 1:50 PM

I'm an honorary Michigander (graduated from State), also stuck on the East Coast. Yes, I'd rather be elsewhere. *shrug*

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 30, 2009 1:53 PM

The Linnaean system has the same probability of being scrapped for the phylocode as I do of becoming president of the Ornithological Society of Greenland.

Hang on a second, read Article 21 of the PhyloCode first.

(In fact, just read the whole thing. It's easy to read and takes no more than one evening. No comparison to the ICZN.)

The Phylocode a vacuous, useless system.

Care to elaborate?

Resulting in a chaotic situation where a single clade often has several names and a single name often applies to several clades. I have to add nomenclature sections to my papers just so that people get what I mean when I use a name!

I hesitate to get involved because there is disagreement as to whether we should be "arranging" animals by clades or using the Linnaean system. I can understand why the use of cladistics is favoured

STOP!

Cladistics is just the method of the science of phylogenetics. Nomenclature is not science. You can have cladistics without phylogenetic nomenclature (…Hennig did…), and you can have phylogenetic nomenclature without cladistics (Gregory S. Paul does because he hasn't understood cladistics, but that's beside the point).

But that's essentially a tree, right?

See comment 367.

Also, those who can't spell Theropoda right shall be eaten next to last.

BTW, the <pre> tag conserves whitespace. You don't need those dots.

a heavy metal rock band from Hanover, Germany

Hannover even.

Posted by: Josh | November 30, 2009 1:58 PM

Oh no. David Pauled the thread.

Posted by: Owlmirror | November 30, 2009 2:29 PM

But that's essentially a tree, right?

Well, it traces, node by clade-defining node, one lineage of a phylogenetic tree; that's the idea. Sort of like one route by which the tree can be climbed, with each extant species representing a different route up the same (always bifurcating) tree.

I realized that I had been incomplete in my wording ("essentially following the branching of a tree") after I wrote that...

Oh, well.

I blame tiredness.

those who can't spell Theropoda right

<*snarl*>

Actually, looking it up, it should be Theriopoda.

θηρίο -- ferocious beast.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 30, 2009 3:18 PM

Actually, looking it up, it should be Theriopoda.

Too late.

I felt that Owlmirror had a reasonable question: what type of taxon is Aves? If it is not a Class is it a sub-Order?

This is not at all a reasonable question, because none of these terms is defined.

None. Not even Aves (unless you adopt phylogenetic nomenclature, in which case there are about 3 different definitions out there, because the PhyloCode is not yet in effect).

There's not even an arbitrary rule on these things. If you declare it a suborder, and some Wikipedia editor declares it a class, neither of you is wrong.

Aves is considered to be a Class.

This is one of the rather few cases where some sort of traditional consensus exists. There's no rule on it, no official body that sets such things.

BTW, outside the PhyloCode (and, optionally, the botanical code), only genus and species names get italics.

Presumably, there is a similar body in biology.

No.

The stratigraphers have made the transition from body stratotypes to boundary stratotypes. Most biologists still haven't. Worse yet, in zoology, taxa at ranks above those of the family group ( = above the superfamily except for people who use additional extra ranks) do not even have body stratotype equivalents. It's madness.

Posted by: Carlie | November 30, 2009 4:50 PM

Presumably, there is a similar body in biology.

The closest it gets is the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature and the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, which are revised every 6 years. However, those deal only with valid ways of naming taxa, not the underlying philosophies and methodologies of how to tease apart their relationships, or even of what is deserving of what kind of name. The lecture I give in classes of how many species concepts there are and how opposed they often are to one another is one of my favorites - it's kind of disconcerting for people to realize that there really are no rules.

Posted by: Alan B | November 30, 2009 5:14 PM

#362 Lynna said:

I talked to my brachiopods, but they refuse to come out of hiding.

My apologies. I would never knowingly harm a brachiopod. Send them my best wishes.

Posted by: Carlie | November 30, 2009 5:32 PM

I saw that kitty earlier today! I've been watching it on an almost-continuous loop.

Posted by: Drew | November 30, 2009 6:38 PM

Has anyone ever been to Ave Maria, Florida?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoRBMoQRzDg

There's a Catholic-centric town there founded by the CEO of Domino's Pizza. Porn and contraceptives are banned there O_o.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 30, 2009 6:42 PM

Thus, science has been using terms for thousands hundreds of years without agreed (or even imposed) definitions?

Yes.

And yes, it is appalling, both in theory and in practice. Rank assignments (not so often between class and suborder, but between subfamily, family, superfamily...) are continually changed based on mood swings, and some people follow any particular such change while others don't.

There are bodies of rules about nomenclature (one for "plants", one for "animals", one for "prokaryotes", and one for viruses), but they regulate things like spelling and priority*; they don't define the ranks.

And of course they couldn't define such arbitrary constructs in ways that made any sense in practice.

* Except that most rules of the zoological code don't apply to ranks above the family group. Basically, spelling applies, priority does not.

which are revised every 6 years

Where did you get that from? The ICBN is revised every 2 years, last in 2006 and 2008; the ICZN is revised in irregular intervals, last in 1985 and 1999.

Posted by: Sili | November 30, 2009 8:17 PM

I hate death.

I've just had an email that my ph.d. supervisor died Friday night.

I never did work up the courage to go back and talk to him after I ran off with my depression three years ago (almost to the day). I still have some of his books that I should have handed back.

Bugger.

Thank you for the puns. They were unexpected and helped me.

Posted by: Sili | November 30, 2009 8:24 PM

And happy birthday, Lynna!

Posted by: Josh | November 30, 2009 8:33 PM

Oh, and Alan--I'm not ignoring your earlier comment--I'm merely sitting on very little brainpower this evening.

Posted by: Carlie | November 30, 2009 8:49 PM

David - I was counting issuance of complete new versions of the botanical code after the every 6th year IBC convention. The current version is Vienna, from 2005; before that was 1999 in St. Louis (which I remember well, waddling around 8 months' pregnant!), and before that Tokyo in 1993.

There are lots and lots of intercode homonyms (names used for both an "animal" and a "plant"), and there are lots and lots of ambiregnal organisms

And there are also the PITA almost homonyms, like Archaeopteris and Archaeopteryx. At least they have the decency to have a letter or two difference. And what I can't believe is that they went so long with valid publications not needing illustrations.

Sorry, Sili. That's a blow.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | November 30, 2009 9:11 PM

@ Josh.. my condolences as well.

Posted by: Lynna | November 30, 2009 10:00 PM

Thank you, Sili, for the birthday greetings! :-)

Sili, that's devastating news about your advisor. Live well in his honor. I'll join Josh and raise a glass.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | November 30, 2009 11:05 PM

(*runs and hides*)

Posted by: John Scanlon FCD | December 1, 2009 12:40 AM

Just got sent the link to this documentary on peer review and the reasons for growth of the Open Access movement. Some of the commenters there (and we know what they say about them: <80 points) find it to be in bad taste, and there's bound to be one or two such even here. If you don't laugh out loud, you've never coauthored a paper.

Posted by: Feynmaniac | December 1, 2009 3:39 AM

lol, Michael Egnor calls Chris Mooney a whore:

3) “Trick”: a work-related act performed by a prostitute.

A spot-on description of Mooney’s science journalism.

I don't know who to root for....

Posted by: 386sx | December 1, 2009 4:08 AM

Wow, those guys at the Disco 'Tute have gone completely unhinged. (As was predicted by The Amazing Criswell, of course.)

Posted by: maureen brian | December 1, 2009 4:56 AM

It's there now and, as Knockgoats was too polite to say, it is bollocks.

Fortunately the Guardian still has a few readers bright enough to recognise a very weak argument, very badly done. I'm very glad he retired but how much harm did he create while he was around?

Perhaps we could offer him an idiot-level course in basic design. As I'm not a scientist I'm just as mad that he's got that idea wrong too!

Posted by: Alan B | December 1, 2009 5:40 AM

The antodote to the kitty story:

Jellyfish as big as sumo wrestlers off Japan:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091130/tod-jellyfish-as-big-as-sumo-wrestlers-h-870a197.html

"The vast stinging creatures have appeared on Japan's Pacific coast after floating from Chinese and Korean waters where they breed every year. The Echizen jellyfish grow up to 2.2m in diameter and can weigh over 300kg. Their size means they are capable of ruining fisherman's nets and poisoning and crushing catches."

Hey. Godzilla! Where are you when Japan needs you?

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 1, 2009 6:32 AM

"The least inclusive clade including both Lindenbergia and Alectra" is a perfectly good specifier in the Phylocode.

No, the type specimens of the type species of Lindenbergia and Alectra (whatever they are) are perfectly good specifiers. A clade is not (Art. 11).

Among other travesties, the Phylocode removes types (or at least the requirement of specifying types)

That's several layers of wrong.

and the requirement that authors provide descriptions and diagnoses. It lacks any utility whatsoever.

The PhyloCode is about nomenclature, not taxonomy. I also wonder if you're confusing definition and diagnosis... Also, read Art. 21 already. You're in for a pretty big surprise.

Jellyfish as big as sumo wrestlers off Japan:

That comes from overfishing.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 1, 2009 6:39 AM

And there are also the PITA almost homonyms

Harmless. There's a fungus that used to be classified as an insect by GenBank because it has the exact same name, both genus and species. I think this was only discovered in a phylogenetic analysis of that clade of insects.

And then there are the inter-rank homonyms within the ICZN which stem from the fact that precedence doesn't apply above the family group of ranks. Siphonophora means three completely different things, I think... one of them is a genus... there are more examples.

Posted by: Alan B | December 1, 2009 6:54 AM

#418 Lynna

I'll cover Josh's usual greeting and raise him another Happy Birthday!

Alan B [and Ed.].

[My favourite Leptaena depressa (J. de C. Sowerby) asks to be remembered to your shelly friends.]

Posted by: Alan B | December 1, 2009 6:56 AM

Hmm. Time Zone differences do have the advantage that I can catch up a bit with comments that came through after I'd gone to bed! Still a bit difficult to have a 2-way conversation!

Posted by: Josh | December 1, 2009 7:05 AM

@Josh: Yeah, northeastern winters make riding not so much fun. But it's still much better for the gas usage and my sanity if I ride instead of drive, so I do it unless the roads are snow-covered or icy.

Cripes, be careful with that. Of course, I say that because I have a hard enough time staying on a bike when there is ample friction.

Posted by: Alan B | December 1, 2009 7:11 AM

#430

What is an "antodote"? Ask the Rev. People seem to be blaming him.

Posted by: Dania | December 1, 2009 7:41 AM

Silly, sorry to hear about your Ph.D. supervisor. 65 is too young.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 1, 2009 8:12 AM

Another small step in the right direction - viz against bigotry.

Posted by: Alan B | December 1, 2009 8:38 AM

#444 Dania gets the Nelson.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 1, 2009 10:02 AM

Comment 449 bears repeating.

Are they any more related other than by the fact they are successful large carnivores (which means they will have a similar morphology?

Oh yes. Their reduced hands (not merely short as in tyrannosauroids, but reduced), strange tail vertebrae, generally bizarre skulls, and so on and so forth show very clearly that they're a clade. Theropod phylogeny is very well researched these days (…it wasn't 20 years ago).

The Tyrannosauridae appear to be a more closely related group where cladistics might be useful in sorting out relationships.

"Might be"? Several phylogenetic analyses of that clade have appeared this year alone (because new non-tyrannosaurid tyrannosauroids, and even one tyrannosaurid – Alioramus altai –, have been discovered).

Because they are so widely separated geographically.

That's not why. After all, tyrannosauroids (not tyrannosaurids, though) go back to the Middle Jurassic, when the Big Pond was just that. It's easy to see that tyrannosaurids are tetanurans, and coelurosaurs at that, while abelisaurids are ceratosaurs.

In terms of nomenclature (by which I mean, how do we refer to these animals in a way that allows a reasonable overall picture to form in the mind of the hearer) I cannot see why we shouldn't refer to them as 2 distinct groups of species (call the groups families or whatever).

Of course we should refer to them as 2 distinct clades, and we should have names for these clades, as in fact we do. The question is what it helps if we call these clades families, because "family" is not defined.

There have been plenty of studies of biodiversity through time that counted genera, families, or even orders and believed they had approximated (our knowledge of) biodiversity that way. That is not the case. None of these "entities" are countable. What you get if you count families is a cross-section through the aesthetic preferences of whichever authorities you happen to cite at whichever moment they published the papers you happen to cite.

Nomenclature is about naming taxa, which are specified groups of organisms.

"Specified"?

Under the ICZN, Hominidae is defined as the taxon at the rank of family that contains Homo. That's it. Even when people agree on the phylogeny, and even when they additionally agree on the principle that only clades should be named (not required by the ICZN), they won't necessarily (and in fact don't) agree on how to delimit that taxon – what (except Homo) to include and what to exclude.

--+--Old World monkeys
  `--1--gibbons
     `--2--orang-utans (Sumatra, Borneo)
        `--3--gorillas (west, east)
           `--4--chimps (chimp, bonobo)
              `--5 Australopithecus, Homo

For the last 20 or 30 years, practically everyone has agreed on this tree. Nevertheless, all 5 numbered clades have been called Hominidae by people who agreed on this tree! Is that stability in nomenclature? Is that what the first sentence of Principle 4 of the ICZN means?

No, it's madness.

The taxonomic makeup of a clade (a phylotaxon) can shift so that nobody really knows what organisms are included in a phylotaxon and which are excluded (wit reference to different trees).

This is shared with the rank-based codes.

In phylogenetic nomenclature, there is one source of instability: our shifting knowledge of phylogeny. As long as we agree on a tree, we agree on where to tie the labels, because the definitions on the labels tell us.

In rank-based nomenclature, there are two sources of instability: our shifting knowledge of phylogeny, and mood swings – splitting and lumping.

The phylocode conflates taxonomy and nomenclature.

How?

Isn't it rather rank-based nomenclature that commits this confusion when it builds rank assignments into the spelling and the precedence of names? Into their definitions even, as long as such an incomplete construct as "the family that includes Homo" can be called a definition?

Article 21 is a laughable admission of how poorly the Phylocode addresses problems associated with utility. The result of complete confusion about how to handle non-phylogenetic entities (species) is to use the same system that we have been using all along, and save the phylocode for higher order entities?

Sort of. In a way, it is indeed an admission of failure – Cantino, Clarke, Dayrat, and de Queiroz were supposed to write a species code, but that didn't work, because the rank-based codes treat types in very different ways and so on… and of course it would be a bit much work to republish all two million species names just to keep them valid. For the time being, thus, the PhyloCode will deal with clades and only clades, and will leave species (which are clades under some but not most species concepts) to the rank-based codes.

"Higher-order entities" is a bit of a misunderstanding, though; depending on the species concept, clades can overlap or be part of species.

This reminds me of something interesting, though.

In vertebrate paleontology, most species concepts (and arguably all interesting ones) are not applicable, because they require some approximation to population biology, and it is very rare that enough specimens are available for that. Accordingly, these species are all morphospecies ("if I can tell them apart, they're different species"); people regard the species rank as a nuisance and/or nothing but an opportunity to honor colleagues, and use genus names in practice, because almost all genera of Mesozoic dinosaurs (for instance) contain a single species. This goes so far that things that look like Linnaean binomina have been published with "new taxon" instead of "new genus and species" behind them; this renders them completely invalid according to the ICZN, but nobody complains – nobody except me seems to even notice.

Ernst Mayr famously said about asexual organisms that they "do not form species". But the rank-based codes force him, and everyone else, to pretend anyway! The PhyloCode won't. It will allow people to use bacterial cultures as specifiers.

There are good motives behind the phylocode (restricting taxa to monophyletic groups)

The main motive is to regulate the already existing (since 1986) phylogenetic nomenclature by providing a body of rules about priority, valid publication, and such.

Outside of Russia maybe, nobody who works on Mesozoic dinosaurs uses the ICZN anymore, except to describe new species/genera! And nobody has for 10 to 15 years. It's all phylogenetic definitions all the time. The only problem is that, because it's not regulated, different people use different names for the same definition and vice versa, and that's what the PhyloCode is meant to fix.

Here are a few good papers that do a much better job explaining the difficulties with phyclocode than I have done here

Both of them are rather appalling cases of talking about things they hadn't understood. Nixon & Carpenter tried to demonstrate that rank-based nomenclature contains more information, but their argument assumed that you know how many spider species there are! Pickett attended the First International Phylogenetic Nomenclature Meeting in 2004, but understood only half of it and assumed the worst about the rest. He didn't even understand the difference between phylogenetic nomenclature and the PhyloCode! (The latter is a code that is meant to regulate the former, duh.) His lack of the knowledge of the literature also showed, and it shows that he didn't get around to just asking people.

Laurin et al. (2005) is a brief response to Pickett (2005) – too brief, unfortunately. I started writing up a response to Pickett (2005) in 2005, but still haven't got around to finishing it – so much keeps getting in the way…

deQuieroz

de Queiroz. With a space, and with ei. A name as often misspelled as Myers.

More papers:

Rowe, T., & Gauthier, J. 1992. Ancestry, paleontology, and definition of the name Mammalia. Systematic Biology 41: 372 – 378.
– Figure 1 shows the ten different clades to which the name Mammalia had been applied in the literature till then. Often the same people used that name for different clades in different papers, and often they were vague enough that up to 5 different clades could have been meant; sometimes they even explicitly used it in different senses in the same paper.

Cantino, P. D. 2004. Classifying species versus naming clades. Taxon 53: 795 – 798.

Laurin, M. 2008. The splendid isolation of biological nomenclature. Zoologica Scripta 37: 223 – 233.
– Makes the comparison to body and boundary stratotypes in biology. Shows how big the difference between one and two sources of instability is.

The homepage of the International Society for Phylogenetic Nomenclature contains a complete list of literature about phylogenetic nomenclature. Unfortunately no links to pdfs.

Posted by: Lynna | December 1, 2009 10:46 AM

@429: regarding the story about the relationship counselor who refused to counsel gay couples -- it always amazes me that people like that counselor demand that we all respect their religious views, and those religious views include showing disrespect to selected minorities.

Besides that, the company the counselor worked for made it plain that they offered respectful help to all persons, regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. So what was the bigot doing there as an employee in the first place?

You know the Christian news services are going to pick this story up and make it into a big persecution tale of woe.

Posted by: Stephen Wells | December 1, 2009 10:59 AM

I just wanted to say that it's quite fascinating watching you guys thrash out this kind of detail. With pie.

Posted by: Dania | December 1, 2009 11:48 AM

With pie.

Aaaand speaking of pie (not that I need an excuse to post a pie recipe in the middle of a discussion about classification, but since you mention it...)
___________________________________

@Dust and Britomart: OK, so here's the chickpea pie recipe I promised you upthread. Hope you like it!

(And yes, the quantities are expressed in the metric system. Sorry, USAnians, but you're units confuse the hell out of me.)

Chickpea pie

Ingredients:

Pie Shell:

125g flour

75g margarine

A few drops of lemon juice

4 tablespoons (add more as needed) cold water

Filling:

150g pureed chickpeas

300g sugar

2 whole eggs and 4 egg yolks

60g margarine, molten

Lemon Zest

Preparation:

Mix and knead all the ingredients for the pie shell together. Wrap the dough in plastic foil and let it rest for half an hour. Then flatten the dough with a rolling pin and place it into pie pan.

In a bowl, combine the pureed chickpeas, lemon zest and sugar. Add the eggs, the yolks, and the margarine. Mix until all the ingredients blend well. Pour filling in unbaked pie shell. Bake at 180 °C for about 45 minutes or until a toothpick inserted in center comes out clean.

Sprinkle with powdered sugar, if desired. Serve at room temperature.
___________________________________

Carry on.

Posted by: Josh | December 1, 2009 11:59 AM

This is OT from everything and no one is going to give a shit, but whatever.

There's this place across from where I work that has the BEST FUCKING TURKEY. Huge chunks of the stuff. Damn.

Carry on.

Posted by: Lynna | December 1, 2009 12:53 PM

Alan B, I talked to my geologist brother, Steve, about the Subcommissions, and he sent this email note:

Task Groups are automatically dissolved once they have fulfilled their objective, scheduled such that the objective is completed within four (4) or a maximum of eight (8) years (see 7.1).

I think I'll keep my job at the Circumlocution Office. I don't want to be dissolved.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 1, 2009 2:05 PM

I'll give the latest version of the phylocode another read.

That's what I want to hear. :-)

Of course, feel free to direct any questions my way!

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | December 1, 2009 7:43 PM

Its cool to know someone on the inside.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 3:55 AM

#456

margarine? oh ick. I think i'll stick with butter; maybe even butter mixed with coconut oil

*ponder*

Posted by: 386sx | December 2, 2009 7:44 AM

Wow, was 1984 a big year, or what?

http://www.fast-rewind.com/1984_Movies.htm

Holy crap.

Posted by: Lynna | December 2, 2009 10:15 AM

Whoops. I see I have started off the morning with a typo. "Right your are, Mr. Sullivan" should have been "Right you are, Mr. Sullivan" [pause to drink more coffee].

To continue, Sullivan linked to another blog that detailed why another conservative was running away from his more fanatical brethren. Maybe the Republican Party won't have to bother with that purity test. There will be no impure (translation: no thinking) members of the party left. Here's Charles Johnson's manifesto:

Why I Parted Ways With The Right
OPINION | Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:49:45 pm PST
1. Support for fascists, both in America (see: Pat Buchanan, Robert Stacy McCain, etc.) and in Europe (see: Vlaams Belang, BNP, SIOE, Pat Buchanan, etc.)
2. Support for bigotry, hatred, and white supremacism (see: Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, Robert Stacy McCain, Lew Rockwell, etc.)
3. Support for throwing women back into the Dark Ages, and general religious fanaticism (see: Operation Rescue, anti-abortion groups, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, the entire religious right, etc.)
4. Support for anti-science bad craziness (see: creationism, climate change denialism, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, James Inhofe, etc.)
5. Support for homophobic bigotry (see: Sarah Palin, Dobson, the entire religious right, etc.)
6. Support for anti-government lunacy (see: tea parties, militias, Fox News, Glenn Beck, etc.)7. Support for conspiracy theories and hate speech (see: Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Birthers, creationists, climate deniers, etc.)
8. A right-wing blogosphere that is almost universally dominated by raging hate speech (see: Hot Air, Free Republic, Ace of Spades, etc.)
9. Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.)
10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source)
     And much, much more. The American right wing has gone off the rails, into the bushes, and off the cliff.
     I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

Posted by: Carlie | December 2, 2009 10:32 AM

Wow, that Sullivan essay is pretty powerful. I've reposted it on my Facebook in the hopes that some of my Republican relatives and friends will take note.

Posted by: Carlie | December 2, 2009 10:56 AM

I'd love to! I'm all about the Facebook. I'll send you an email to your blog email address.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 2, 2009 11:13 AM

"friend" is not a verb

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 2, 2009 11:26 AM

Descriptivist!

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 2, 2009 11:40 AM

thought I just did.

What, they don't all read Pharyngula?

Posted by: Lynna | December 2, 2009 11:56 AM

Sven, I got a note from Facebook's administrators today. It announced that they now have 350 million subscribers. The subscribers think that "friend" in a verb, so you may be outvoted.

350 million may exceed the regular readers of Pharyngula, but to make up for that, PZ has a Facebook Fan page, so of course I friended him. I see that Carlie friended PZ as well.

Sven's "Protect the English Language" campaign is doomed.

Nice to see pics of you, Carlie, especially the one of you on a glacier (snowfield?) in Canada. Tip: tennis shoes are not ideal glacier-hiking footwear.

Posted by: Lynna | December 2, 2009 12:03 PM

Damn! I'm still flinging typos into the innerwebs. Second cup of coffee coming up.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 2, 2009 12:08 PM

It seems to me that David Marjanović called this one. Our Prophet of the diminishment of the Far Right, David Marjanović.

Bah. Sullivan is just the latest addition to a long list. Don't you remember how Saint Ronnie's son Michael announced in 2004 he would vote for Kerry? (I wonder if his vote was counted, heh heh. He didn't happen to live in Ohio, did he…?) That's the first example off the top of my head.

The really funny thing is that the Catholic Church now seems to imitate this self-defeating stupid-is-as-stupid-does strategy (retreating from a "big tent" to the strict doctrine and losing members in the process). But this isn't an original insight of mine either.

(Of course the Church does it more slowly. But the Church is always slow. God's mills grinding slowly but exceedingly fine and that sort of thing.)

Hey, raven has been ranting about a backlash against the "death cults" for years right here on Pharyngula. Has nobody been listening to him/her/it/squid? :-)

"friend" is not a verb

Perhaps not in English – but it is in Facebook.

(I've even read it has been borrowed wholesale into German Facebook!)

Posted by: Sven DIMIlo | December 2, 2009 12:29 PM

http://aoife.allegracom.ca/images/verbing_sm.jpg

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 2, 2009 12:36 PM

13627

Posted by: Lynna | December 2, 2009 12:54 PM

Forty years from now they'll find me, holed up in the jungle somewhere, with a dictionary and usage guide, refusing to concede defeat or even admit that the war has long been over.

Posted by: Dania | December 2, 2009 1:04 PM

maybe even butter mixed with coconut oil

Something I would never do. I hate coconut.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 2:00 PM

Yes, your customer base can grow, but you cannot grow it.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 2, 2009 2:13 PM

Why noun when you can verb?

I'll have to find the jokes about Danish being "a complete impediment to understanding", if Sili doesn't beat me to it.

I hate coconut fibers. They're unchewable. You chew and chew, and nothing happens, they're still in your mouth! Incredible material.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 2:17 PM

I hate coconut fibers. They're unchewable. You chew and chew, and nothing happens, they're still in your mouth! Incredible material.

Posted by: AJ Milne | December 2, 2009 2:21 PM

...the oldest Monson is the current President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator...

Y'know, that's just a truly awesome job title. Imagine having that on your business card...

Hell, any one of those would be wicked. I'm picturing it now (gets all starry-eyed)... 'AJ Milne--Seer'...

'Course, it also strangely reminds me of Wile E. Coyote's card...

(/You've seen the one: 'Wile E. Coyote--Genius'.)

Posted by: Josh | December 2, 2009 2:30 PM

I guess it depends on your definition of well.

Posted by: Alan B | December 2, 2009 2:41 PM

#493 DaveH_of_Lundun

Canute was an idiot, right?

Are you referring to Knut the Great, otherwise known as King Canute, King of Denmark, England, Norway and part of Sweden?

No. He was not an idiot! Provide evidence or withdraw.

Alan B (of England)

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 2, 2009 2:45 PM

However, I do draw the line at some verb-izing. I want to destroy something every time I see "up" used as a verb. (We're upping our profit margin!) I also hate the improper uses of "grow" as a verb. (Yes, your customer base can grow, but you cannot grow it.)

Homer: So you think you know better than this family, eh? Well as long as you're in my house you'll do what I do and believe what I believe! So butter your bacon!

Bart: Yes father.

Lisa: Mom, dad, my spiritual quest is over!

Homer: Hold that thought... Bacon up that sausage, boy!

Bart: But dad, my heart hurts!

Posted by: Josh | December 2, 2009 2:49 PM

I just don't understand why you had that reaction to a perfectly reasonable statement. :P

It was 100% done in hopes of initiating a giggle.

Reasonable? Reasonable?

Humpf.

Posted by: AJ Milne | December 2, 2009 2:53 PM

Umm... I actually sorta do butter my bacon...

... I mean... y'know... cast iron frying pan, not so much entirely cured... so's you put a bit of butter in first, just so things don't stick too much at the start...

(/Well, when the deep fryer's on the fritz, anyway.)

Posted by: Alan B | December 2, 2009 3:01 PM

#451, #511

Hi Josh

Do you have any French ancestry? I'm starting to think of you as "Asterix the Gaul". I'll carry the menhir: unless you want to put it in your pack?

Posted by: 386sx | December 2, 2009 3:08 PM

#509 Alan B, thanks for the info. Unfortunately I am not from England though. :(

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 2, 2009 3:16 PM

White stuff, brown stuff... it's all unchewable.

Exactly.

BTW, I'm allergic to walnuts. =8-)

Umm... I actually sorta do butter my bacon...

Butter is difficult to use in frying unless it's completely covered in the stuff that's supposed to be fried in it. So I use rapeseed oil a Canola® generic like all normal people unless I actually can fill the entire pan (like with polenta).

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 2, 2009 3:22 PM

Butter is difficult to use in frying

Clarified butter works alright.

Posted by: Lynna | December 2, 2009 3:26 PM

"This is an enormous victory," said Maggie Gallagher, the leader of the anti-gay marriage group, National Organization for Marriage. "What you saw was the will of the people. ... The culture really hasn't shifted on gay marriage."

I need some new swear words.

Posted by: Owlmirror | December 2, 2009 4:11 PM

King Canute, or Knut, or Cnut, is famous in legend for holding back the tide, or rather, for not holding back the tide, which I presume was the reason for bringing him up with regards to language change.

However, the legend has been garbled in modern minds; it is not the case that Canute actually thought that he could affect the rising waters, but rather that he wished to demonstrate that his titles and temporal powers were in fact impotent against the actual tide.

Some say that King Canute had some courtiers who were so sycophantic and effusive in their praise of him that they even attributed to him the ability to affect nature itself, and he wished to rebuke them. However, it appears that the earliest reference to this legend has it as an example of his Christian piety; he showed that could not alter what God, the king of all, set in motion.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 4:38 PM

BTW, I'm allergic to walnuts. =8-)

Food allergies are what I imagine hell to be like :-/

Posted by: Alan B | December 2, 2009 5:02 PM

#516 386sx said:

Unfortunately I am not from England though. :(

'Tis indeed a misfortune. I feel for you.

I hope you have at least something to make up for it?

"To be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

Posted by: Carlie | December 2, 2009 5:18 PM

F-ing hell. Wait, does that Reuters article actually have a bullet point at the beginning that says "Gay activists sad"????????

What the fucking hell????

Reuters really needs to journalism up their staff so they don't do stupid shit like bullet point inaccurate inanities like "Gay activists sad".

(see what I did there? Twice?)

Posted by: 386sx | December 2, 2009 5:49 PM

I hope you have at least something to make up for it?

Well, I got the internet. Not bad, but it's not as good as being from England. But it ain't too bad though.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | December 2, 2009 6:06 PM

#509: Alan B

In Texas we shoot them. Until they are good and sorry. I didn't know you could eat 'em.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 7:38 PM

If you can grow turnips then presumably you can grow a business.

Posted by: Carlie | December 2, 2009 8:29 PM

If you can grow turnips then presumably you can grow a business.

Technically the turnips grow, but you raise them. At least that's how I was taught.

Posted by: Lynna | December 2, 2009 8:53 PM

I'm not sure it's quite the same as drinking vinegar, but it's close: The Boston Globe reports that athletes use pickle juice instead of energy drinks

For some athletes, nothing says hot-weather workout savior like popsicles made from the briny, green liquid. The combination of water, salt, vinegar, and flavorings can replace essential electrolytes lost during exercise on hot, humid days. Freezing the juice takes away some of the ick-and-eww factor and adds some refreshing fun.
     Most athletes will gamely pucker up for improved performances, and pickle juice in liquid form is gaining popularity as well.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 9:39 PM

Oh, plenty. Today, in the university canteen, I had... um... meat, basic starch (roasted potatoes), and chocolate tart. Well, the meat was confit de canard, so I expect surges of envy all round...

French supermarkets

Stop right here – that alone is already hell. The smell alone.

*confused*

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 9:46 PM

...or maybe I'm just confusing my languages again, which is always a possibility

Posted by: Owlmirror | December 2, 2009 9:54 PM

Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin urge conservative right to purge moderates from Republican Party

Up next: Guillotines cure headaches! You know it works!

"Moderates by definition have no principles,"

Fractal irony detected !!

Posted by: cicely | December 2, 2009 10:27 PM

Well, 'mouse' isn't a verb, either, and I do it all the time!

Now, why are we talking about growing or raising turnips? Surely there can be no good excuse! They aren't food, they aren't entertainment, and goodness knows they ain't attractive.

And don't call me Shirley.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | December 2, 2009 10:58 PM

If you can grow turnips then presumably you can grow a business.

A turnip-growing business!

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 2, 2009 11:46 PM

are turnips just ginormous radishes?

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak | December 3, 2009 12:12 AM

are turnips just ginormous radishes?

Turnips: B. rapa
Radish: R. sativus
Both: Brassicaceae

Turnips are the ginormous cousins of radishes!

Posted by: Sphere Coupler | December 3, 2009 12:30 AM

And I was raised on the growing turnips until I grew out of the taste for them... tho as I age I've grown accustom to the taste and may raise some soon. I believe the ole saying is;
Plant the 25th of July wet or dry.
Harvest the 25th of October drunk or sober.

Posted by: Sphere Coupler | December 3, 2009 12:54 AM

Yeah, there is that. Can't see people changing their habits en masse until it hits them in the face.But on the bright side their is always turnip pie to dream about.

*yeech* Love turnips but really, turnip pie just can't be tasty.Someday maybe I'll try it.

Posted by: SEF | December 3, 2009 5:12 AM

@ cicely #548:

why are we talking about growing or raising turnips? ... they aren't entertainment

See Black Adder's Baldrick about that. Eg exchanges along the lines of:

Baldrick: "I have a cunning plan, m'lord."
BlackAdder: "Does it involve turnips?"

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 3, 2009 9:19 AM

After 23 hours my piss stopped smelling of confit de canard. Pity, that.

Vampire fetishists, imagine what my blood must have been like!

Still haven't resorted to baking my own bread yet, but I eventually might (though, that isn't something a French supermarket could help with, either)

Well, sort of. Specialty breads with flaxseed and/or rye are on sale occasionally, and they're fairly good, but still not the same thing as what I'm used to.

(Of course, ordinary baguette is very good, if it's really fresh, and if you don't eat it every day. I eat very little bread here.)

the smell of what? salad doesn't have a smell (well, except the tomatoes, and tomatoes smell nice)

The smell of tomatoes is rather offputting, and vinegar is horror. Lettuce by itself has almost no odor, but just about everything else one might put into a salad stinks!

desserts, especially the baked types, smell very good too.

Of course, as long as there's no fruit in them.

are turnips just ginormous radishes?

In such cases I use Wikipedia as a dictionary. Turns out turnips are something that the European mainland basically stopped eating when the Middle Ages were finally over, and for good reasons. Even the Brits, whose culinary Middle Ages were only ended by the adoption of the curry as the national dish, are coming to understand that – that's why Baldrick is associated with them.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 3, 2009 9:34 AM

my piss stopped smelling

thanks for...sharing

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 3, 2009 10:36 AM

Ah, reminds me of the old eternal pasty (the meat pie) argument. Does one add add a little turnip, or a little rhutabga, a little of both, or leave those root veggies out.

Posted by: Carlie | December 3, 2009 10:52 AM

Right... and whatever you do... don't EVER push the red button!!!

You mean this button right he... oops. Damn. Everybody run for it.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 3, 2009 11:16 AM

Posted by: Lynna | December 3, 2009 11:48 AM

Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | December 3, 2009 11:56 AM

Posted by: KI | December 3, 2009 12:36 PM

Kohlrabi is yummy raw, too. Sticks or slices with a little salad dressing. Anyone grown the new variety "cossack"? It gets huge-I left one in my garden last year to see how big it would get-basketball (futbol) sized, and a mouse took up residence in it for the winter (I found its nest when I cleaned up in the Spring).

Posted by: Lynna | December 3, 2009 12:47 PM

The video report on Jewish fundies, (@579), is on youtube in three parts. Part two really raised my awareness, and my ire, with its report of "modesty" enforcers that beat up women. The old dudes in charge actually hire thugs to make the beatings more effective.

Posted by: Lynna | December 3, 2009 3:10 PM

Limbaugh has his, so he doesn't care if anyone else is taken care of not. It's offensive for him to equate owning a beach house to having health care.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 3, 2009 3:48 PM

Kohlrabi is yummy raw, too.

<headdesk>

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 3, 2009 5:30 PM

I did forget that some people feel it necessary to ruin perfectly good salad by dumping vinegar on it, though...

Not so much dumping vinegar on it as dumping lettuce into vinegar, if I may exaggerate just a tiny bit. What vinegar remains at the bottom of the bowl is then eaten out with a spoon, like a soup. <puke>

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 3, 2009 5:37 PM

To my mind, nothing complements a crisp garden salad like a drizzle of extra-virgin and a splash of balsamic.
But I can't abide mushrooms in any form.
I also hate celery.

Bacon's good.

Posted by: Sphere Coupler | December 3, 2009 5:47 PM

Turnips...Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.

maureen brian
I am not so bold, as to try them in a pie, well maybe after a couple of shots.

embedded vids?...as DM would say this is "madness"

Diversity and change...whoa now

Posted by: windy | December 3, 2009 6:06 PM

But I can't abide mushrooms in any form.

Have you tried wrapping them in bacon?

Posted by: windy | December 3, 2009 6:17 PM

Not at all: they absorb the fat from the bacon...

Posted by: Tigana | December 3, 2009 8:04 PM

Don't know about bacon though

Morning after the pub - try Wii breakfast with sausage and toast!(but don't burn the toast, huh comedians!)

http://www.youtube.com/v/a14s1LcCUWs&hl=en&fs=1&
Hope the link works after our overlord has been working his "special powers" on Science blogs

Now working on geology fieldtrips for next year whilst absorbing all of Alan B and Josh's suggestions into a mix we can get round in a summer of weekends. Too many choices!

Posted by: Sven DIMilo | December 3, 2009 8:20 PM

fungus-lovers

Posted by: Josh | December 3, 2009 8:57 PM

fungus-lovers

I have an ex who was all hatin' on the fungus, too. It was merely one item on a list of things I didn't understand about her.

Posted by: Carlie | December 3, 2009 9:03 PM

You can grow your own from kits! I keep wanting to have a mushroom garden in the basement, but keep not having the extra cash to order everything I want.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 3, 2009 9:21 PM

as much as I like all kinds of (wild) mushrooms, I can't join the conversation, since I've got no clue what all the tasty ones are called. my mushroom vocabulary is an eclectic mix of Polish and German :-p

Posted by: Dianne | December 3, 2009 9:26 PM

I like Pfifferlinge, despite having no idea what they're called in english.

Posted by: Rorschach | December 3, 2009 9:32 PM

I only posted the vid for the "Chocolate Jesus--an immaculate confection" bit I swear...;)

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 3, 2009 9:42 PM

pierogi with ground wild mushroom filling are one of the best foods on the planet. and I think I haven't actually had any in close to 10 years, i.e. since I moved away from Germany :-(

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | December 3, 2009 9:46 PM

I hate, loathe and revile mushrooms pumpkins. They are revolting. I cannot honestly understand why any sane person would consider them "food".

Fixed it for you. Honestly, Walton, if you can't spell "pumpkin" then I wonder how you got into that high-flautin' skool you go to.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 3, 2009 10:02 PM

you people are all wierd.

Pumpkins and mushrooms are fan-fucking-tastic.

But I'll eat damn near anything.

Now who's got the braised sweetbreads and trippa alla Romana?

Posted by: cicely | December 3, 2009 10:07 PM

Mmmm....mushrooms....with bacon.....

Seriously. My ideal salad is a couple of token romaine leaves (because you've got to have lettuce in a salad; them's the rules), piled high with mushrooms, good cherry or grape tomatoes (not the mealy, tasteless excuse for tomatoes that so often infest salad bars), liberally baconed, with shredded cheese on top. Dried cranberries and pecans are good, too, if you've got them on hand. I like honey-mustard dressing on it, but once had some raspberry-walnut dressing that was frickin' awesome.

Tomorrow, we're having baked stuffed mushrooms. With bacon.

*drool*

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 3, 2009 10:10 PM

Eggplant, cooked spinach (not well hidden) and other leafy greens, olives, and organ meats like liver is my ughs. The Redhead has expanded my tastes over the years.

Posted by: Carlie | December 3, 2009 10:24 PM

Nerd - what turned me around on cooked leafy greens is to sautee fresh greens (ribs removed) in olive oil and lots of garlic, then sprinkle liberally with parmigiano-reggiano. I'm drooling just thinking about it.

There's also Utica Greens, which are a variation of the same with prosciutto and long hot peppers. Italians know how to do veggies.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 3, 2009 10:33 PM

Carlie, the Redhead has tried. But my taste buds refuse to let the cooked greens past. Raw spinach, say in a salad, isn't a problem (especially with bacon).

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 3, 2009 10:36 PM

yay typos

I blame barley wine and football

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 3, 2009 10:39 PM

You anti-pumkinites are missing out.

Spicy chipotle pumpkin soup?

Roasted punkin risotto?

Baked pumkin stuffed with mole chicken?

Damn that is soooooo good.

Expand your horizons people

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 3, 2009 10:45 PM

Mushrooms are one of those things the Redhead taught me to eat. I don't go out of my way to order/make it, but if it's there, I'll chomp it down. And if not on a pizza, it is missed.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 3, 2009 10:48 PM

Man I made a MEAN truffled wild mushroom 3 cheese mac and cheese for the friend's thanksgiving last week.

Without mushrooms it still would have been good, but with them

um

damn

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 3, 2009 10:58 PM

Patricia, PZ plonked the Lyin' Lion. And there was much rejoicing throughout Pharyngula.

Posted by: llewelly | December 3, 2009 11:09 PM

Dianne | December 3, 2009 9:26 PM:

I like Pfifferlinge, despite having no idea what they're called in english.

Posted by: WowbaggerOM | December 3, 2009 11:12 PM

Mushrooms on pizza, definitely - and in bolognaise sauce; both should also have olives if possible. I happily eat kalamata olives straight from the jar - and I've been known to drink olive oil straight from the bottle. I'm not kidding.

But, unless there's a gun to my head, I ain't eatin' no damn pumpkin!

Posted by: llewelly | December 3, 2009 11:18 PM

Another example of evolution in action: Availability of food from British bird feeders has caused a portion of blackcaps to migrate to Britain for the winter, rather than Spain. And they have diverged genetically, though not into different species.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 3, 2009 11:24 PM

When we have pizza with olives, the Redhead ends up with a double ration. The same when olives are added to salads in a restaurant.

I think people having different tastes is evolutions way of making sure we don't get too dependent on one food source. Also, that we are willing to look at new sources of food.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | December 3, 2009 11:48 PM

Thanks! That dumbass needed a good plonking.

Posted by: Sili | December 3, 2009 11:55 PM

Bugger.

Once more. With feeling!

Posted by: Patricia, OM | December 4, 2009 12:38 AM

Wowbagger - Kalamata olives...errrrr. That just gives me the shivers. Yuck.

You sure you couldn't take pumpkin in a muffin, pancake, or cookie?

My pumpkin pie is a food of the gawds, so I won't mention it, out of excess modesty.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | December 4, 2009 1:12 AM

If I ever get to the land down below I'm going to take some pumpkin just for you. :)

Posted by: Owlmirror | December 4, 2009 2:14 AM

A question for David Marjanović/Josh:

Darren Naish's 2nd 2007 post on feathered dinosaurs states:

While basal coelurosaurs - compsognathids and tyrannosauroids - possessed filament-like 'Stage 1' structures alone, members of Maniraptora (the coelurosaur clade that includes oviraptorosaurs, therizinosauroids, birds, deinonychosaurs and, probably, alvarezsaurids) possessed indisputable vaned feathers. That is, complex feathers that had a distinct central rachis with vanes on either side composed of parallel barbs. What is surprising is how luxuriant some of this covering seems to have been, and on how much information we now have about the arrangement of feathers on the bodies of these dinosaurs...

I don't think that much has changed in the past two years, but is this still considered correct? Nothing outside of Coelurosauria has filament feathers, and nothing outside of Maniraptora has vaned feathers?

I also remember seeing a graphic showing the various known feathered dinosaurs in a phylogenetic tree, or something like that, but I can't seem to find what I remember on TetZoo, and it might have been from something linked to from there. Does that sound familiar?

Copying and pasting David M's Dinosauria tree, purely for my own conceptual benefit:

--Dinosauria
     |--Ornithischia
     `--Saurischia
          |--Sauropodomorpha
          `--Theropoda
               |--Coelophysoidea
               `--Neotheropoda
                    |--Ceratosauria
                    `--Tetanurae
                         |--Spinosauroidea
                         `--Neotetanurae
                              |--Allosauroidea
                              `--Coelurosauria

...have to break the line here, or it'll get unreadable...

Coelurosauria
  |--Tyrannosauroidea
  `--Maniraptoriformes
       |--Ornithomimosauria
       `--Maniraptora
            |--Oviraptorosauria
            `--Eumaniraptora
                 |--Aves
                 `--Deinonychosauria
                      |--Dromaeosauridae
                      `--Troodontidae

Posted by: Owlmirror | December 4, 2009 2:17 AM

I also remember seeing a graphic showing the various known feathered dinosaurs in a phylogenetic tree

... including silhouettes of the dinosaurs themselves, I mean.

I would also settle for artists' renderings of them.

+1

Posted by: Phrogge | December 4, 2009 3:52 AM

Some time ago, somewhere (maybe in connection with the evolution of brass HS tshirt?) I came across a link to a site featuring tshirts showing the degree of relationship between homo sapiens and one's choice of another species... "Tyranosaurus rex is my xxxth cousin xxxtimes removed" kind of thing, if I recall correctly. I thought, "hey, cool, I'll have to remember to get one for my grandson," but kept reading & following links rather than ordering right then and there, and now I can't find it again.

I'm hoping a Pharyngulite with stronger google-fu than mine might be able to locate it for me. Thanks!

Posted by: 386sx | December 4, 2009 5:07 AM

Oh crap, I could have embedded the video. I'll remember for the next time! Again and again and again!

Everybody keep embedding them videos! More and more and more and more!! Lots and lots of videos please!!

Posted by: windy | December 4, 2009 5:37 AM

Which was first, chicken or Jesus?

Posted by: Josh | December 4, 2009 6:18 AM

I'm running a little late this morning, and can't check about through the literature right this second, but Darren's synopsis of the distribution of feathers/featherettes within Theropoda seems to jive with my memory. David can probably bust actual support rather faster.

If I get some down time a little later and David hasn't jumped in, I'll try to hit this a little harder.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 4, 2009 7:10 AM

What to people think

What do people think.

I think I got up much too early today and will keep being tired for the rest of the day… grmpf.

Also, about feathers… if the "quills" of Tianyulong (and those on the tail of Psittacosaurus) are stage I feathers, chances are that stage I feathers are ancestral for Dinosauria; and that would mean the "pycnofibers" (formerly called "fur") of pterosaurs are probably the same thing, too. Holy secondarily featherless sauropods, Batman!

Posted by: KI | December 4, 2009 8:37 AM

How much queasiness can I create? There's a wonderful little Japanese salad turnip called "hakurei" that grows in less than a month, sliced raw or cooked, tender and delicate-flavored. I inoculated a couple of tree stumps with sulfur-shelf mycelium, "chicken -of-the-woods" mushrooms get huge and have a wonderful, meaty texture. Over the weekend I harvested and processed a gallon or so (cooked) of kale, chard, and brussel sprout leaves (I've discovered that almost all mustard family plants have edible leaves-broccoli, cauliflower, even the little kohlrabi leaves). "Sugar Baby" pumpkins are the ones you want for food, the jack-o-lantern types are hard and stringy. Hollow it out, fill with Irish stew, bake until tender, then serve in the shell,scooping out bits of the squash into the serving bowl with the stew. Sweet potatoes are great baked (like a regular spud) with butter and cinnamon. Good quality kalamata olives are wonderful, bad olives are compost. Iceberg lettuce is indeed vile, but tender leaf lettuces from the backyard (so tender these varieties aren't shippable, so home-grown is the only way) are a gourmet delicacy. Did I miss anything?

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 8:48 AM

I'm extremely skeptical of what goes for pizza in the english speaking countries.

It seems mostly to be a concoction created to produce sudden cardiac death by means of lethal amounts of cheese and barbecue sauce, and a "more is better" approach to toppings and base.

;)

If you ever come to Charleston, we'll go here.

This is the special right now

pizza
swiss chard & speck
arugula pesto, split creek farm’s feta, speck, local wilted swiss chard,
house-made mozzarella and parmigiano-reggiano

uh, yeah

Posted by: Damian | December 4, 2009 8:58 AM

Posted by: KI | December 4, 2009 9:21 AM

@669
I'm pretty sure it's the same thing, quite different from table beets. You can find them in some seed catalouges, usually in the "different and unusual" section. I've seen them called "field beets", too, the way we differentiate between "field" corn and "sweet" corn.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 9:32 AM

I'm extremely skeptical of what goes for pizza in the english speaking countries... "more is better" approach to toppings and base - Rev BDC

Actually that was Rorschach, I just botched the blockquote.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 4, 2009 9:44 AM

'Kohlrübe', if it's rutabaga

No, no – Steckrübe is.

If you judge food by what it looks like

Not really

Well. This might be a great chocolate sauce.

Though probably it's just as vile as it looks. Point taken.

Posted by: KI | December 4, 2009 9:59 AM

Carlie@673
I'm in Minneapolis, if you're ever here.
I've had a "Southwestern-style" pizza that had chicken and onions with chilies and a barbecue sauce. It's OK, but I prefer pepperoni and black olives. Thin crust (cracker-like) and oregano-heavy tomato sauce (thinly spread, like a proper Italian pizza). I don't know why Americans have to ruin a perfectly good food by dumping huge amounts of cheese and meat on it. Deep-dish "pizza" needs another name to distinguish it from the real thing.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 10:16 AM

Anyway, food should be judged by what it smells like.

Humm. Not always.

I can think of a few cheeses and such that at first wiff are scary, but once you eat them... damn.

Same goes with some organ meat.

But again, you have to be open taste budded or something like that.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | December 4, 2009 10:52 AM

Two traits served me well as a graduates student:
1. I can sleep at will and in any position/situation. I also can remain awake and alert for days at a time.
2. I have the least discriminating taste in food of almost anyone I have ever met. Food fills a painful hole in my belly. THat's as much culinary interest as I can muster. Pasties? Yum. Rutabega? Yum. Turnips/kale/radishes/baloney/organ meat/any greens/ cheeses/ inverts/ seasoned or not, prepared in any manner--yum. You name it, I eat it without complaint. I can't be the only one like this on this forum.
The upside is that I enjoy every meal.
The downside is that I get food-poisoning more frequently than your average joe.

Posted by: 386sx | December 4, 2009 11:04 AM

Liver smells pretty good, but it tastes like total crap, or worse.

Posted by: Matt Penfold | December 4, 2009 11:25 AM

I can think of a few cheeses and such that at first wiff are scary, but once you eat them... damn.

We have a local cheese like that, called Celtic Promise. It smells like socks that have been worn for month, than left to fester in a damp place for a further month. The taste though is outstanding. Probably my favourite cheese of all time.

Posted by: Lynna | December 4, 2009 11:42 AM

We will not bend over. I see that some of the ministers in the Ugandan government are standing firm on their anti-gay rhetoric:

Kampala — The government yesterday reiterated its opposition to homosexuality and said donors were free to withdraw their funding if they wish.
     Ethics and Integrity Minister James Nsaba Buturo was responding to a Daily Monitor story that Sweden had joined other countries that are pressuring the government to discard a proposed law that would severely punish homosexuality in the country.
     "Homosexuality will not be promoted, encouraged or supported in Uganda," Mr Buturo added. Mr Buturo told journalists at the Uganda Media Centre in Kampala that: "We should remind them (the donors) that there is integrity to be defended and threats are not the way to go. If one chooses to withdraw their aid, they are free because Ugandans do not want to engage in anal sex. We do not care."
     Life imprisonment is the minimum punishment for anyone convicted of having gay sex, under an anti-homosexuality Bill currently before Uganda's parliament....
     "The government welcomes views that well-wishers of Uganda make concerning her governance. It should be noted from the outset that when such views are from diplomats who are accredited to Uganda, the standard diplomatic practice world over is for such views to be communicated to government through well known diplomatic channels," he said.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | December 4, 2009 1:42 PM

I'm coming over to KI's house for dinner.

Anyway, food should be judged by what it smells like.

Posted by: 386sx | December 4, 2009 1:56 PM

Atheist gets totally "pwnd":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTSKBo44icI

"pwnage"!!

Posted by: Alan B | December 4, 2009 3:20 PM

#653 Sili

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbKKv4mooOU

2:45 onwards.