Pharyngula

Posted by: Humanistic Jones | December 4, 2009 3:03 PM

One does not fuck with the Texas Tank!

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 3:08 PM

Damn that's good.

As I said in another thread, paraphrased.

Creationists are either gullible, dishonest or both.

Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 4, 2009 3:13 PM

Behe's falsification criterion for ID is that we could just re-evolve the flagellum from basically nothing.

Which has nothing to do with any prediction of IDiocy.

I mean, his lies involve the basics of honest discovery, scientific or otherwise.

Have you noticed, by the way, that Behe has not been held up as being better than the rest of the IDiot liars, after his Dover testimony? Kitzmiller showed that his "case" is all about lying, and even if he believes what he says, it can only be because he's dishonest to the core of his "soul".

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p

Posted by: Frymaster | December 4, 2009 3:21 PM

Ricardo Montalbon is a 'significant beneficial mutation'? Who's got the double standard now? ;-)

Posted by: Upliftingmofo | December 4, 2009 3:24 PM

Incredible, great video!

Posted by: dNorrisM | December 4, 2009 3:24 PM

That's a lot of data to absorb. Was he implying that Khan Noonien Singh was the product of natural selection?

Posted by: A. Dean Yeager | December 4, 2009 3:25 PM

"Doctor" Behe,

We believe the purpose of science is to serve mankind. You however seem to regard science as some sort of dodge, or hustle.

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy and your conclusions are highly questionable-- you are a poooor scientist, Dr. Behe.

A. Dean Yeager

Posted by: stptrck75 | December 4, 2009 3:32 PM

Facts schmacts. They have faith. And faith gives insight which surpasses the five senses and human intellect. Like Ray Comfort so blithely stated "I know what happened in the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth. You don't know. I do."

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.

Posted by: Bone Oboe | December 4, 2009 3:35 PM

A. Dean Yeager @ #14

"Doctor" Behe,

We believe the purpose of science is to serve mankind. You however seem to regard science as some sort of dodge, or hustle.

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy and your conclusions are highly questionable-- you are a poooor scientist, Dr. Behe.

A. Dean Yeager

"Doctor" Behe: "But the kids love us."

Posted by: Jack Rawlinson | December 4, 2009 3:36 PM

Aron Ra has been on my YT favourites list forever. He rocks - check out his other vids.

Posted by: Sastra | December 4, 2009 3:45 PM

Nice smackdown.

One of the problems creationists have is that they've bought into the bastardized, twisted, distorted view of what it means to "know" something, by using the model of "knowing" God exists. They don't know anything of the sort -- but they are convinced that they know it better than any other fact.

That study which showed that the same parts of the brain are activated when one considers what God thinks, and when one considers one's own thoughts, is probably highlighting a general tendency to confuse God with one's own selfhood. I've had believers tell me that trying to think of the possibility of God not existing is like trying to think of the possibility of themselves not existing, but thinking of that possibility anyway. It's a self-refuting loop. That's how sure they are, that God exists.

And that's why they are so sure they "know" creationism has weight. No mechanism, no theory, no evidence, no nothing -- just that feeling of certainty that's 100% trustworthy.

Bringing up the confusion between self and God is a bad move, though, if you're trying to show that God is something other than a belief. It's counterproductive.

Posted by: carlos.nunes-ueno.myopenid.com | December 4, 2009 3:55 PM

Is that #3 after "Never get involved in a land war in Asia" and "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"?

Seriously though, it's great to hear everything laid out so bluntly. Also, the sock puppet as a stand-in for the challenger was a nice touch, because he clearly was just acting as a mouthpiece for the Discotute's talking points.

Posted by: Frank | December 4, 2009 4:00 PM

Very well put.

Posted by: Pen | December 4, 2009 4:01 PM

Could all you really smart people please explain to me how you manage to listen to a guy talking on a video and read what it says on the screen at the same time? Or don't you? Which do you choose to pay attention to? Do you watch it twice? I mean, really, I thought I was not thick, until now. Maybe, I'm too old for the new media?

Posted by: R. Schauer | December 4, 2009 4:03 PM

Others, above, are saying the same thing as I; Behe's faith supercedes science's facts and observable evidence.

As long as that is the creationists stand, no amount of evidence will ever be complete enough to change their minds...'tis very sad and reflects extremely poorly on creationist's faith, belief and the distortions of reality they support.

BTW, Aron does a remarkable job of exposing the truth.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 4, 2009 4:08 PM

I think I'm going to need a CSI light and a high powered lens to find the trace evidence that Behe's credibility still exists...

Posted by: Desert Son, OM | December 4, 2009 4:09 PM

That right there was some Steve-McQueen level cool. Some Lt.-Ripley-in-the-power-loader-fighting-the-alien-queen level cool. Some Chow-Yun-Fat-lighting-a-cigarette-with-a-burning-$100-bill level cool.

Supertanker of Neosporin to the creationists, stat!

Still learning,

Robert

Posted by: Lynna | December 4, 2009 4:15 PM

I especially enjoyed the part where he showed Behe inserting impossible demands for proof into his old arguments about the human immune system.

I'm sure Aron Ra is wrong
because his hair is long.

I think that's another creationist argument, one that Ra did not address in this video. It's just as reasonable as the "I know God exists because I feel it inside" argument that Sastra so ably delineated.

Posted by: Religion™ Brand Brain Staples | December 4, 2009 4:18 PM

Easily one of my favourite youtubers.

I find it amusing that his opponent apparently presents himself as a sock puppet.

Posted by: flyonthewall | December 4, 2009 4:26 PM

#7 I'm new to a lot of this. Is this guy married? I think I'm in love.

I believe there is already a line forming for woman who want to have his baby.

Take a number and go to the end. :-)

Posted by: Susannah | December 4, 2009 4:34 PM

This is the first time I've heard anyone use the reasoning that was the clincher for me, years ago, first on Creationism and later on the Bible as "God's Word"; if someone has to lie, even in a small way, to support their argument, then they already know that their claim is untrue, and are lying their whole way through.

Posted by: Janine, She Wolf Of Pharyngula, OM | December 4, 2009 4:38 PM

For those who are wondering if Aron Ra is married, I do not know. But he has a now fifteen year son. Two years ago, they had a very interesting Halloween project.

Posted by: Ferrous Patella | December 4, 2009 4:43 PM

I wish I could remember name of the talk.origins poster that came up with, "Honest creation scientist. Choose any two."

Posted by: Nebula99 | December 4, 2009 4:43 PM

Wow, AronRa is awesome! I think I've seen some of his stuff before, but I'll definitely go looking for more of it now.

Pen, if the screen is going too fast I often use the pause button or ignore the screen and go back through looking at it later. The images in this video are used to illustrate that the stuff he's talking about really exists and, unless you want solid evidence or more detail, can be ignored without missing the point of the speech.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 4:51 PM

One thing I remember about Behe is his daughter crying on the news when this whole sham came out. She screamed at the TV reporter "Why won't you just leave my dad alone?!" I wish IO could remember where I saw it, maybe CNN or something.

She should make a video

LEAVE BEHE ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!!!

Posted by: SantaCruzOM - this OM does imply a Molly:-( | December 4, 2009 4:56 PM

#14 - well played and originally delivered to Dr. Peter Venkman IIRC, who is likely more credible than Behe....

Posted by: darvolution proponentsist | December 4, 2009 5:01 PM

Yeah, Aron knows how to serve up a creationist well done with a side of butt-hurt. I'll second the recommendation to see his Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism series. I've watched it or had it playing in the background several times myself. Much like watching a movie for a second time you always catch something new. It's like a series of training videos for recognizing and responding to the well worn creationist canards.

Pen@28

Could all you really smart people please explain to me how you manage to listen to a guy talking on a video and read what it says on the screen at the same time? Or don't you? Which do you choose to pay attention to? Do you watch it twice? I mean, really, I thought I was not thick, until now. Maybe, I'm too old for the new media?

Yes, if the video is worth it I'll watch them a second time to pick up more detail and\or pause to get a good look at the data presented. If I get real interested, many of the original images used can be found via google image if you have a little skill at using good search terms. If you decide to check out the series mentioned above it's almost a given that one has to watch it more than once, to get used to Aron's tempo (you will) and realistically absorb the information.

Posted by: GregB | December 4, 2009 5:11 PM

Hey! I know that guy! He's our Dungeon Master!

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 5:19 PM

Also, if you happen to google image "emu" the emu looking into the camera used to belong to Aron's daughter.

Never fails. Any Emu looking into camera photo always makes me snicker.

Posted by: deep | December 4, 2009 5:37 PM

You should all subscribe and check out his foundational falsehoods videos. His videos are always quality.

Also check out his five facts video about himself. It's...interesting.

Posted by: Janine, She Wolf Of Pharyngula, OM | December 4, 2009 6:06 PM

I've been subbed to him...

Are you saying that Aron Ra is a top?

I am so very sorry. I could not resist.

Posted by: Kel, OM | December 4, 2009 6:13 PM

If there was anyone on Youtube I wouldn't want to get into an argument with it's AronRa.

What surprises me (it shouldn't really) is the utter lack of intelligence in those who actually challenge AronRa. They are complete morons who really don't get it at all. Not even one with the slightest bit of intelligence and knowledge at all. And that to me is creationism in a nutshell.

Posted by: JimboK | December 4, 2009 6:57 PM

“The Way to see by Faith, is to shut the Eye of Reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer when you put out your candle.”

Benjamin Franklin - Poor Richard's Improved Almanack, 1757.

Many thanks to Ben & Aron Ra!!

Posted by: eyelessgame | December 4, 2009 7:13 PM

I like Aron-Ra a lot. I spent some overlap time with him on t.o. One of his most charming aspects is that he doesn't know everything, but as soon as he cares to learn he studies it and learns about it before opening his mouth again.

He started out a skeptic of the Big Bang (for much the reason Hoyle could never accept it). I remember discussing it with him and pointing him to the literature, and my tone wound up (unfairly) being one I reserve for creationists. He called me on it, I apologized, and he in turn learned about cosmology before talking about it again.

People like that are treasures. He's brilliant.

Posted by: Janine, She Wolf Of Pharyngula, OM | December 4, 2009 7:32 PM

Murbul, sorry. Though I linked to it, it has been about a year since I watched it.

Posted by: Tim | December 4, 2009 8:35 PM

AronRa is where I got my first real primer on evolution, it wasn't covered at my hick high school. Glad to see him working his way up the interwebs.

Posted by: darvolution proponentsist | December 4, 2009 8:38 PM

He started out a skeptic of the Big Bang (for much the reason Hoyle could never accept it). I remember discussing it with him and pointing him to the literature, and my tone wound up (unfairly) being one I reserve for creationists. He called me on it, I apologized, and he in turn learned about cosmology before talking about it again.

I can't recall where, it could have been a YT video or an appearance on blogtv during the MSF\DWB fundraiser, but he briefly remarked on the above scenario and recalled it fondly as "having his ass handed to him". I thought it was in his go-round with Andy\QQOQQ on YT* but I breezed back through the videos and couldn't find it.

People like that are treasures. He's brilliant.

Indeed.

* due to my (supposedly non-existent) morals I refuse to expose anyone directly to Andy's stupid in its original form. It burns. Aron's responses to Andy in order are ... Where did EVERYTHING come from? followed by "Having to repeat myself" then "No sense pretending".

(jebus, has YT totally hosed the user interface or what ?)

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | December 4, 2009 8:55 PM

Someone who has stopped listening.

Darwinists take note...

The second is that the term Darwinist in no way refers to evolutionists. The term is used as a derogatory attempt to classify evolutionists as a religious cult founded by Darwin. The problem with that is that Darwin has been been superceded by 150 years of scientific research, now call the modern synthesis, and he got a lot of things wrong. He had no idea of genes, genomes, DNA, and anything discovered after this death. But science goes on. Scientists in no way deify a mere mortal. But we revere him as a great scientist who unified may diverse fields into one theory.

Posted by: toomanytribbles | December 4, 2009 9:34 PM

i know i've enjoyed aronra's videos before but i was just stunned to see that i was not subscribed.

just corrected that.

he's highly articulate, with sharp-shooting arguments and a mesmerizing voice. how wonderful.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | December 4, 2009 10:12 PM

The picture of Behe sitting in front of a shelf of books is analogous to a picture of me sitting in front of a pile* of power tools. I mean, he knows what they are, but isn't sure what to do with them.

*This is the correct term for a collection of power tools, right? People stack them and stuff?

Posted by: IaMoL | December 4, 2009 10:49 PM

Funny, Aron Ra is a local. His son and my son went to elementary school together in Garland and I kept his son company on a field trip to Old City Park because he was fasting in observance of Ramadan (odd). Small world.

Posted by: mythusmage | December 5, 2009 3:03 AM

Nerd of Redhead, #77

To expand upon your thought; a scientist listens and considers, taking into consideration evidence supporting and opposing any proposition. If the available evidence says the proposition has merit, that is one thing. If the available evidence says the proposition has no merit, that is another matter entirely. Creationists present no evidence for consideration, only assertions and declarations.

Posted by: Nick (Matzke) | December 5, 2009 3:53 AM

Dude! Aron Ra in the flesh!! I read his posts back in the day on talk.origins...how far back did he start?? Where does he hang out now??

Posted by: DLC | December 5, 2009 10:27 AM

wow.
after action report:
"Sighted creationist, sank same. "

Posted by: MPG | December 5, 2009 7:15 PM

BTW, does anyone know where AronRa's site can be found. Turns out that AronRa.com got nabbed by GoDaddy, and they're offering it for sale.

According to one of the Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism videos (I forget which, I think it's one of the later ones) someone else registered aronra.com, filled it with relevant keywords to drive search traffic there, but filled the site itself with creationist baloney. Pretty low tactic, but that's hardly a surprise. The site as it appeared in AronRa's video has since vanished to be replaced by a holding page. There's no entry on archive.org to check what used to be there, and Whois just reports it was registered last November by an anonymous proxy registration agency. AronRa's primary internet presence at the moment seems to be on YouTube alone. He does have webspace at http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/, but there's structured site as far as I can tell, not even a front page, and he just uses it as a spot to dump text scripts for his YouTube videos.

Posted by: atomjack | December 5, 2009 9:23 PM

Antiochus Epiphanes,

The proper term for (I'm making this up) is an "injury" of power tools. Think, "murder of crows", for example. But then, I've injured myself with hand tools, too. Hammers especially. >:(