Sign this petition to protect a valuable dinosaur trackway quarry in New Jersey — it's going to be bulldozed and built over with condos if you don't. It might even if you do, but make a little effort to bring this deplorable waste of a scientific resource to people's attention, anyway.
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« Do we get a bright yellow border now? | Main | It must be ‘Pick on New Jersey’ Day — click on this poll »
More articles by PZ Myers can be found on Freethoughtblogs at the new Pharyngula!
Save the footprints, New Jersey!
Category: Fossils
Posted on: December 4, 2009 12:18 PM, by PZ Myers
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Comments
Posted by: Lee | December 4, 2009 12:27 PM
Thanks so much for posting this, PZ! :D
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 4, 2009 12:29 PM
They're using some hyperbole:
Only place in Jersey doesn't mean no more fossils from this period will ever be collected again.
Absolutely stupid to pave over anything that valuable, regardless. My god, they don't have any useless destroyed space in Jersey to use instead for another strip mall, or whatever?
Signed. Come on, not everything valuable in New Jersey absolutely has to be destroyed.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: JBabs073
|
December 4, 2009 12:32 PM
Signed.
Thanks for bringing this to people's attention.
Posted by: Ompompanoosuc | December 4, 2009 12:32 PM
Who cares about 6000 year-old footprints?
Posted by: sillysighbean | December 4, 2009 12:36 PM
You from Jersey? I'm from Jersey, what exit? We already voted in republican Mr.Christie, so we have enough dinosaurs here.
Posted by: F
|
December 4, 2009 12:44 PM
What a bunch of dumbasses.
Posted by: Nominal Egg | December 4, 2009 12:48 PM
Smart people.Posted by: F
|
December 4, 2009 12:49 PM
Ompompanoosuc
If they were thought to be the footprints of Jeeebus, someone would care. Even though those would only be a mere 2k years old.
Posted by: deep | December 4, 2009 12:57 PM
Unfortunately, there are probably much better things to do instead of signing an internet petition. Any protests in the Jersey area?
Posted by: Ompompanoosuc | December 4, 2009 1:08 PM
The guy walked on water so he probably didn't leave much of a footprint.
Posted by: Ray | December 4, 2009 1:14 PM
I was signer #666! Woo Hoo! Hopefully, this petition will at least get the site some attention and maybe actually preserve it.
Cheers & Happy Monkey,
Ray
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 1:25 PM
109
Posted by: truebutnotuseful
|
December 4, 2009 1:29 PM
Making some noise directly to the planning and parks departments of the city and county probably couldn't hurt. See email addresses below.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to locate a planning case number for the development project in question, so just be sure to specifically mention that you oppose further development of the former UBC Quarry and support the expansion of Rifle Camp Park to include the remaining undeveloped portions of the quarry, specifically those containing fossils and tracks.
West Paterson City Planning Board: zoningandplanning@wpnj.us
Carol Ryle, Passaic County Planning Department: CarolR@passaiccountynj.org
Joseph Spinelli, West Paterson City Chairman of the Open Space, Recreation, and Historic Preservation Committee: jspinelli@wpnj.us
Raymond J. Wright, County Director of Parks: Jrraymondw@passaiccountynj.org
Posted by: Dawn | December 4, 2009 1:36 PM
I signed. I'm in NJ, but not off either the NJT or GSP; I'm by exit 41 of I-80
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 2:24 PM
#14
Sorry Dawn, but you're actually in "almost PA", not NJ.
;)
Posted by: Rob Jase | December 4, 2009 2:25 PM
Signer 901 here.
Side note - back in the '60's a highway project in Connecticut accidentally exposed the trackways now known as Dinosaur Park in Rocky hill, Connecticut bacause people were thrilled at such a discovery.
The State authorities however were not so thrilled & since then its had a unwritten policy of not allowing public mention of other trackways, etc, to prevent people from knowing about other finds & disturbing 'progress'. I know of several others that were subsequently found in the New Britain/Plainville area where I-84 & I-72 were constructed but have never been publically acknowledged. In addition, in Manchester in the late '70's & early '80's a large mall & several other smaller malls were built on the site of pretty-much the only quarry in the state from which a full dinosaur skeleton had been taken.
Posted by: wiley | December 4, 2009 2:25 PM
Oh yes, preserving dead dino footprints is way more important than houses for humans..
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 2:29 PM
wiley now that the teacher let you out for recess, come back and answer some questions at the other thread you were shitting all over.
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 2:30 PM
There is no shortage of houses for humans here. And if there were, we could find better places to put them.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 4, 2009 2:32 PM
wiley apparently is unaware of the giant overstock of housing inventory in the united states.
Not really surprising.
Posted by: mattand | December 4, 2009 2:35 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe I missed Jersey related dino news, but my excuse is I'm in South Jersey as opposed to the North.
@Wiley #17: Is this public housing that would be held up?
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 2:37 PM
Luxury condos.
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 2:41 PM
And, if anybody is really wondering, Realtor.com has 97 listings in the West Paterson area for condos anywhere from $170,000 to $900,000.
Posted by: mattand | December 4, 2009 2:44 PM
That's what I thought. I'd hate to see jobs lost, but at the same time the need for new housing in NJ isn't exactly pressing (at least based on the amount of houses for sale down here.)
Posted by: James T | December 4, 2009 2:50 PM
>Oh yes, preserving dead dino footprints is way more important than houses for humans..
... Is this a fucking joke man? Of course preserving this quarry is more important than building more houses. Anyone capable of rational thought can see that the ideas and knowledge we gain from such deposits are invaluable. There can be no price set on knowledge that may be lost forever.
Posted by: Michael N. | December 4, 2009 2:53 PM
Exit 135 here
Posted by: Katkinkate | December 4, 2009 3:02 PM
They could build the condos and let the ground floor remain a paleontological dig/fossil display tourist attraction, with a guide and a working dig team. But I've heard USA has too many houses/condos for the demand as it is. I don't understand why someone would be building more, when they can't sell what's already available.
Posted by: Josh | December 4, 2009 3:14 PM
Glen wrote:
about this:
They are using some hyperbole here...
First off, if this locality really is in an exposure of the Passaic Formation, then the statement that this is the only place in NJ that has fossils from this time period is simply false. The Passaic Formation crops out all over NW New Jersey
geology.rutgers.edu/103web/Newarkbasin/NB_geology.html
and has long been known as a formation that is fairly rich in dinosaur-tracks.
www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~polsen/nbcp/olsen_smoot_whiteside_05_sm.pdf
www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~polsen/nbcp/olsen_80_comp_2.pdf
www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~polsen/nbcp/olsen_baird_86.pdf
In short, there are places beyond Patterson where you can find tracks from the Passaic Formation (and there are a bunch of places across the river in PA as well--same unit).
This is less important, but they're also under the impression that the site is Lower Jurassic in age. If it's Passiac, then I don't think that's right. If I recall correctly, all or just about all of the Passaic was deposited prior to the Tr/Jr boundary.
geology.rutgers.edu/103web/Newarkbasin/NBCPcompstrat_lg.jpg
www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~polsen/newark_gechron/kent_olsen_99.pdf
I'm trying to find a more recent paper, but I don't think the results are appreciably different.
And even if the locality sits at the very top of the formation, and the very top of the formation is over the boundary into the Lower Jurassic (or if they got the formation wrong and it's actually in some Jurassic-aged unit), then it should be noted that the Lower Jurassic section in New Jersey is still fairly extensive (and it produces fossils).
nj.usgs.gov/nawc/images/njgeolmap2.gif
So a statement that this quarry is the only place in NJ that has fossils of Jurassic age would still be false.
All of that being said, however, it's a crying shame whenever we lose data to development (but of course I feel the same way not just about fossils*, but also about the loss of a nice series of lake beds, or a sandstone outcrop with really well preserved cross-beds, or all of the paleocurrent data that are lost forever every single day in pretty much every sand and gravel quarry in the northeastern U.S. (as most of these are fluvioglacial deposits)).
*though the loss of them definitely hurts...
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
|
December 4, 2009 3:22 PM
Re 109/135...
'Mkay... When I first saw that 'what exit?' bit, I just naturally assumed this was some sort of self-mocking Jersey humour...
(/... and now that it's been answered deadpan and twice, I still can't tell.)
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 3:45 PM
@AJ Milne #29
It's not so much a self-mocking Jersey behavior as a "what do you mean you don't understand the answer? Why the hell did you ask, then?" behavior.
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 3:56 PM
Getting directions in New Jersey:
"Can you tell me how to get to X?"
"Oh, sure. Go down to the next traffic light, make a left[1], and keep going until you find someone who cares."
[1] You aren't allow to turn left in New Jersey.
Posted by: Kaddath | December 4, 2009 4:40 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if fundies were behind this... what a better way of destroy the fossil record they claim doesn't exist.
Posted by: mattand | December 4, 2009 5:21 PM
@AJ Milne and tsg:
Re: the "what exit" gag:
As a lifelong NJ resident, I've seen it used as self-deprecating as well as an insult. It depends on who's asking.
Since I'm not getting anything else done today: the "what exit" question usually applies to the turnpike. If people are saying "109" or "135" they're probably referring to the Garden State Parkway, as the NJT tops at 15 or something like that.
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 5:46 PM
@mattand
I'm a lifelong NJ resident as well. I have heard it as self-deprecating and an insult. I was remarking on my giving a real answer deadpan.
I've heard it in reference to both the Parkway and the Turnpike, but I've always found the Parkway references more useful because it runs the entire length of the state and the exit numbers match the mile markers, unlike the Turnpike, and there are more of them. It's usually clear by the number which you are referring to (unless you mean south of mile 18 on the parkway).
Posted by: NiVeKeR14 | December 4, 2009 6:12 PM
"But I've heard USA has too many houses/condos for the demand as it is. I don't understand why someone would be building more, when they can't sell what's already available."
Yes, THIS! I just can't wrap my head around this. We've got so many empty homes just sitting around in America right now, why are we building more and more? And over goddamned dino fossils no less!
Posted by: Graeme Elliott | December 4, 2009 7:45 PM
#1366 reporting in. Don't you guys have planning laws protecting sites of special scientific interest? They're all over the place in the UK.(I apologise if this has been answered!)
Posted by: mattand | December 4, 2009 8:03 PM
@tsg:
I grew up in Mt. Laurel, with a literal 10 minute walk to Exit 4. We're so NJT-centric in this area, it never occurred to me that the joke would be used with the GSP (which is generally associated with the shore 'round here).
Unfortunately, I usually hear it as an insult delivered from visiting PA residents; YMMV.
I did enjoy your directions sample from #31, though.
Posted by: tsg | December 4, 2009 9:55 PM
Heh. I was just there the other day programming an air handler in the new Super 8 that's being built just off that exit.
Around here it's not odd to tell someone what exit you're from in all seriousness. But I started answering the question when meant as a joke when I went to college and got tired of hearing it. It's a lot of fun to see someone who thinks they're being clever get a blank look on their face when you tell them. "Don't ask the question if you're not going to understand the answer."
I usually ask them, "don't you have a town named 'Fuck'?"
Posted by: doug l | December 4, 2009 10:14 PM
Why not excavate the trackway, sell the slabs and use the procedes to fund a scholarship in paleontology. It seems there are still a goodly handfull of internet millionaires with childhood fascinations over dinosaurs who buy entire skeletons of giant dinosaurs to decorate their ultra-efficient mansions. Nathan Myhrvold of Microsoft comes to mind, having just seen some article about his fabulous natural and cultural history museum of a palace/home. Now that its significance has been imortalized on the internets, it makes it far more valuable than it would be as just another set of Jurasic aged tracks in and around Passaic, New Jersey.
Posted by: JThompson | December 5, 2009 1:26 AM
#1544.
@Graeme Elliot: We may have some, but good luck getting them enforced. People here have way too much of a "progress at any cost" attitude combined with a fucked up idea of what "progress" is.
Condo and strip mall developers in particular seem to be some sort of minor deities as far as lawmakers are concerned. To such a degree that I'm not convinced a demand by one to build a condo/strip mall out of the bodies of fifty thousand orphans would be denied them.
Posted by: Jparenti | December 5, 2009 2:31 AM
Damn, this is annoying. I don't live in New Jersey, but I see this type of BS where I've lived, too. The nearsightedness of public officials when a possible revenue stream presents itself is tiring.
Signed. BTW, where was it before we started? Anyone know?
Posted by: Lee | December 5, 2009 3:58 AM
@ Jparenti:
It was sitting around 340 at 5:30 EST on Friday.