Pharyngula

Just stay home, scientologists

Poor Haiti. First the earthquake, and now the cult vultures are descending on them. It’s not just talking bibles: now the scientologists are coming.

Seriously, people. When a region suffers a disaster and the infrastructure is falling down in ruins and people need real help now, when the pipeline is limited and access is difficult, send in the experts (doctors and engineers, for instance) and immediately useful aid (medicine, food, drinking water), and all the peddlers of frivolous non-essentials should just stay out of the way. A box of e-meters is taking up space better spent on a box of antibiotics; a scientology auditor is displacing a doctor.

Comments

  1. #1 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    January 18, 2010

    How are the Haitians going to be able to pay their way to clear?

  2. #2 Autumn
    January 18, 2010

    Somebody please release a flock of geese at that idiot’s plane.

  3. #3 Yubal
    January 18, 2010

    Aren’t the people of Haiti in average too poor to be good scientologist?

  4. #4 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    January 18, 2010

    Godbots just don’t get it. First food, water and medicine. After the rapture, the missionaries…

  5. #5 Autumn
    January 18, 2010

    They can trade the auditors a bunch of solar-Bibles.

  6. #6 https://me.yahoo.com/a/RPuarI8Lze61hZk1PGjwDbui2fIshFKUh6U8SM6lsg--#d17ca
    January 18, 2010

    It seems to me like there should be laws or something to prevent this sort of thing. I mean can’t they close the borders to these opportunists in the same way cops can close off a fallen building from looters? Then again knowing the xians they are probably giving the “let us do this and we’ll give you some aid” ultimatum.

  7. #7 Jadehawk, OM
    January 18, 2010

    let me repeat what I said in the other thread:

    complete fucking waste of resources, and nothing more than a pathetic attempt to get their own people to look like they’re helping while actually doing nothing of the sort.

  8. #8 tsg
    January 18, 2010

    There are few things more harmful than an idiot with good intentions.

  9. #9 Sgt. Obvious
    January 18, 2010

    Why do I somehow get the feeling that “professor”dendy won’t be coming in to defend this bunch like he did the last one?

  10. #10 raven
    January 18, 2010

    Why would the Scientologists have the slightest interest in Haiti?

    IIRC, it costs something like 50-100,000 USD to go through their program. And Scientology is all about money. They drain your bank account into theirs.

    I doubt the average Haitian makes that much in a lifetime.

  11. #11 Pilsner
    January 18, 2010

    I think we are ignoring the Scientologist modus operandi:

    (1) Announce that scientologists will be sent to a disaster zone to help disaster victims rid themselves of their Reactive Minds;

    (2) Mockery from a thousand media voices;

    (3) Thousands of defamation suits;

    (4) PROFIT!

  12. #12 MadScientist
    January 19, 2010

    This sounds like a scientology propaganda stunt for the faithful: see what we’re doing, aren’t we fantastic? Send us more money so we can do more of this. It’s exactly what Pat Robertson does.

  13. #13 Valdyr
    January 19, 2010

    You’re seeing poverty as an obstacle when it’s really an opportunity! Just imagine: they could offer loans to the Haitians, who would be able to help their starving, homeless families with the money. Before long they’ll be so dependent and indebted to the Church of Scientology that they’ll be slaves in all but name for the rest of their lives. Hallelujah! Or whatever Scientologists say.

  14. #14 aratina cage of the OM
    January 19, 2010

    Why do I somehow get the feeling that “professor” dendy won’t be coming in to defend this bunch like he did the last one? -Sgt. Obvious

    That question plus your moniker was so perfect. A great way to end the day at Pharyngula. Thank you. Sad that the woo-vultures are swooping down on this disaster.

  15. #15 emjay1988
    January 19, 2010

    @Valdyr (#13) – And then they can make a deal with the (scientologist) satan to escape their slavery, live in slums for the next X years, suffer a natural disaster and start all over again!

  16. #16 lisainthesky
    January 19, 2010

    This just really makes me sick.

    These people are in turmoil and they are taking advantage to add to their numbers and they can do it under the guise of “We just want to help”.

    I hope I live to see an era where the power and stupidity of religion have very little place in this world.

  17. #17 Valdyr
    January 19, 2010

    I don’t think Scientology has a Satan. Maybe Anonymous, collectively, but wouldn’t that be more Legion-y?

  18. #18 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    January 19, 2010

    Xenu. he nuked (Yes, nuked) Hundreds of thousands of aliens that were going to rebel his Galactic Empire, and that he brought to earth on DC-8s. After brainwashing them.

    Elrond Hunter isn’t just a Science Fiction writer. He’s a bad one. The Church of Lawology is a horrible entity.

  19. #19 jimspice
    January 19, 2010

    The same could be said for politicians and reporters, save perhaps a pool of the latter to convey the extent of the tragedy.

  20. #20 Pastor Farm
    January 19, 2010

    But without the Scientologists, who he hell else is going to stand around and point at them?

  21. #21 https://me.yahoo.com/a/Kh8vfYk0xOeHZ9A8glwWzQVrkRJq#15205
    January 19, 2010

    PastorFarm, #20:

    Jeeeezus! Any maneuver with those illustrations, the verbal instructions for which are “Feel my finger”… well, it takes my breath away.

  22. #22 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    But without the Scientologists, who he hell else is going to stand around and point at them?

    umm, did anyone else immediately put naughty comment bubbles over the pair in the last picture?

    “Touch assist” indeed…

  23. #23 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    seriously, that section is a perfect representation of how the best parody is unintentional self parody.

    Poe’s Law writ large.

  24. #24 tsg
    January 19, 2010

    umm, did anyone else immediately put naughty comment bubbles over the pair in the last picture?

    “Um, that’s not what hurts.”

    “Touch assist” indeed…

    From the “kiss it make it better” school of medicine. Sanitized for your protection (coz kissin’s dirty).

  25. #25 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    Any maneuver with those illustrations, the verbal instructions for which are “Feel my finger”… well, it takes my breath away.

    My thoughts run to holding my breath when someone says something like that.

  26. #26 dannystevens.myopenid.com
    January 19, 2010

    Oh dear, my opinion of the human race just dropped a notch.

    What is it with Hollywood movie stars? So many of them seem to go from one dysfunctional relationship to another and then fall for scientology. Whakaloons!

    To be fair John Travolta does seem to be including real medics. Are the supplies mentioned actually e-meters or real supplies?

  27. #27 blf
    January 19, 2010

    Now there’s a particular flight the USA military air traffic controllers at Port-au-Prince should refuse permission to land… albeit that won’t stop them (Co$ could truck the rubbish in from the Dominican Republic), and it still wastes time, resources, and money. Tricker if the flight actually contains useful/needed stuff as well…

  28. #28 alextangent
    January 19, 2010

    Letter of the day in the Star Tribune; a corker. Perhaps Lily could be persuaded to write one to John Travolta.

    Dear Pat Robertson, I know that you know that all press is good press, so I appreciate the shout-out. And you make God look like a big mean bully who kicks people when they are down, so I’m all over that action. But when you say that Haiti has made a pact with me, it is totally humiliating. I may be evil incarnate, but I’m no welcher. The way you put it, making a deal with me leaves folks desperate and impoverished. Sure, in the afterlife, but when I strike bargains with people, they first get something here on earth — glamour, beauty, talent, wealth, fame, glory, a golden fiddle. Those Haitians have nothing, and I mean nothing. And that was before the earthquake. Haven’t you seen “Crossroads”? Or “Damn Yankees”? If I had a thing going with Haiti, there’d be lots of banks, skyscrapers, SUVs, exclusive night clubs, Botox — that kind of thing. An 80 percent poverty rate is so not my style. Nothing against it — I’m just saying: Not how I roll. You’re doing great work, Pat, and I don’t want to clip your wings — just, come on, you’re making me look bad. And not the good kind of bad. Keep blaming God. That’s working. But leave me out of it, please. Or we may need to renegotiate your own contract. Best, Satan

    LILY COYLE, MINNEAPOLIS

    Hat-tip to freelunch over at talk.origins.

  29. #29 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    just to provide some contrast, here’s the Mercy Corps update from today:

    Through a partnership with the water treatment and transport leader ITT, we’re shipping water-filtration devices to supply as many as 25,000 people with clean water each day.

    We recently used similar machines to provide drinking water for 40,000 residents of a Sri Lanka displacement camp, and to replace the flood-damaged water system of a 50,000-person town in Honduras.

    The standalone, portable, self-contained devices are en route to Port-au-Prince from where they’ve been stored — waiting for an emergency like this — in France, Norway and Honduras.

    We’re also anticipating delivery of three desalinization devices, which would provide the option of making nearby seawater fit for drinking. These are arriving from Texas.

    what a difference to this useless shit the religiobots are doing.

  30. #30 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlp989lfUEZdOe06KgoDibYpfTqDdts9bE
    January 19, 2010

    From over here in Europe – perception is that Scientologist and regular Americans just do the same gaping bigmouthing. Only a few degrees of separation.

    So what is going to happen? Crazy GI shooting black people again while calling them deregatory names while installing Baby Doc 2.0 and shock and awe companies? Haiti will be an eight million strong labor camp for Walmart and blood and organ donors guarded by Blackwater?

  31. #31 Strangest brew
    January 19, 2010

    This disaster could be a whole magnitude or ten worse…

    Mumma Theresa could be cruising the highways and byways dispensing her patented version of xian lurve!

    Which with that obvious gap in the scenario the likes of the chronically ignorant find an opportunity to spread their own sickness!

    Dumbo/Denby whatever, is just one of many such immoral fuckwits that cannot abide irony but seize the opening to infect another generation with bullshit and dogma to make themselves feel important in the scheme of things.
    Or at least try and make themselves less lonely and pathetic in their delusions.

    They are all vying to be first off the plane to sign ‘em up for jeebus…those brownie points don’t earn themselves you know!

    Expect pitched battles between the ‘enlightened ones’ while jostling for the juicy ones, just what is required in any disaster zone…medical supplies directed towards the warring clones of looney street.

    Not one shred of decency or shame in any of them…obviously delusion strips the humanity in the infected…terrible disease that it is.

  32. #32 Flea
    January 19, 2010

    #1
    How are the Haitians going to be able to pay their way to clear?

    They won’t. Its just the underpaid workers the vultures are after.

  33. #33 Rorschach
    January 19, 2010

    Not one shred of decency or shame in any of them…obviously delusion strips the humanity in the infected…terrible disease that it is.

    Too true.

  34. #34 llewelly
    January 19, 2010

    A box of e-meters is taking up space better spent on a box of antibiotics; a scientology auditor is displacing a doctor.

    It’s worse than that. There is much evidence that people who have recently suffered a calamity are much more vulnerable to cult conversion and manipulation tactics.

  35. #35 Occam's Machete
    January 19, 2010

    Slightly on topic:

    The homeopaths are at it too. Homeopaths Without Borders are on the Haiti bandwagon too. I won’t link to their site, but they are asking for money so they can ‘help’ in Haiti.

    The goddamn fucking fuckers! I don’t have the words to express my contempt I feel for these opportunistic pieces of shit.

    AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGGH!

  36. #36 Occam's Machete
    January 19, 2010

    The mangled grammar and typos in my previous post come courtesy of a homeopath inspired rage.

    I know I shouldn’t, but I have an overwhelming urge to slap a homeopath right now. Very, very hard.

  37. #37 Focus
    January 19, 2010

    #8 “There are few things more harmful than an idiot with good intentions.”

    Frank Spencer comes to mind, but he usually only hurts people NOT already in a disaster.

  38. #38 Focus
    January 19, 2010

    #35
    But being homeopathic, wouldn’t donating less make them more effective, and donating essentially zero be the best possible donation?

    Whoohoo i’m helping them help Haiti and it didn’t cost me a thing! Costfree guilt suppression!

  39. #39 Occam's Machete
    January 19, 2010

    alextangent @ #28

    That letter is seven kinds of awesome. Thanks for posting.

  40. #40 Legion
    January 19, 2010

    Valdyr:

    I don’t think Scientology has a Satan. Maybe Anonymous, collectively, but wouldn’t that be more Legion-y?

    What!? Did someone call? Oh, I see.

    Well those anons are doing good work, to be sure, and I/We are happy to have their help since the idea of taking possession of Tom Cruise’s shit-filled soul makes us wretch aborted babies.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Legion: hassling the faithful for over 2000 years.

  41. #41 MetzO'Magic
    January 19, 2010

    The comments over at TFA PZed linked to are outstanding: “Witchdoctors without Frontiers”. LOLs!

  42. #42 MetzO'Magic
    January 19, 2010

    Sorry, without Borders. And the Locational Assist, now how would that work in Haiti?

    Scientologist: See that over there? That is your completely demolished house.

    Haitian earthquake survivor: :-(

  43. #43 Knockgoats
    January 19, 2010

    We atheists are surely missing a trick here – what better time to airdrop millions of copies of The God Delusion – just when the Haitian people have had an object lesson in the fact that if there is a god, he doesn’t give a shit about them!

    [/cynical bastard]

  44. #44 Killer Bud
    January 19, 2010

    Haiti 2010

    The rumble in the ground it did not last long
    but it is the inspiration for this here song
    It happened in Haiti just the other day
    The buildings all crumbled unable to sway

    Pat Robertson blamed the devil for Haiti’s plight
    and for the life of me, I thought that wasn’t right
    Solar powered bibles was the news of the day
    They’re telling those Haitans they need to pray
    I say send them medicine and food that would be better
    maybe some tarps for when things start to get wetter.

    The people are scavenging the streets
    looting things to eat
    and while the dead lay near by
    theres no time to cry

    Pat Robertson blamed the devil for Haiti’s plight
    and for the life of me, I thought that wasn’t right
    Solar powered bibles was the news of the day
    They’re telling those Haitans they need to pray
    I say send them medicine and food that would be better
    maybe some tarps for when things start to get wetter.

    Rescue dogs are scouring the land
    while the volunteers offer a helping hand
    The screams under the debris turn to a whimper and a sigh
    until all hope is gone and they give up and die

    Pat Robertson blamed the devil for Haiti’s plight
    and for the life of me, I thought that wasn’t right
    Solar powered bibles was the news of the day
    They’re telling those Haitans they need to pray
    I say send them medicine and food that would be better
    maybe some tarps for when things start to get wetter.

    I thank all the people who really do care
    with their time and money they’re able to share
    Things are really urgent, these people cant wait
    So stop blaming the devil for the tectonic plate

    Pat Robertson blamed the devil for Haiti’s plight
    and for the life of me, I thought that wasn’t right
    Solar powered bibles was the news of the day
    They’re telling those Haitans they need to pray
    I say send them medicine and food that would be better
    maybe some tarps for when things start to get wetter.

  45. #45 Knockgoats
    January 19, 2010

    PZ, can you give Lily Coyle an honorary Molly for that brilliant letter quoted @28?

  46. #46 Occam's Machete
    January 19, 2010

    @Knockgoats

    Maybe the Rational Response Squad could parachute in and offer bottled water to those who renounce the holy spirit?

    [/another cynical bastard]

  47. #47 AJ Milne
    January 19, 2010

    Oh, lovely. And just when I thought I couldn’t possibly get more disgusted.

    And re ‘Strangebrew’s ‘Or at least try and make themselves less lonely and pathetic in their delusions…’:

    It’s my ever so humble opinion this is much of the underlying driver for conversion attempts, missionary attempts. When you pretty much know you’re completely full of shit, but are so deeply roped into the social structure you can’t muster the balls to say so and make an exit–nay, cannot even admit as much to yourself

    Well, then there’s this ugly progression that follows naturally. Someone asks you about it, of course you tell ‘em you believe. You’re told by the local guru it’s your job to tell ‘em you believe, of course you tell ‘em you believe…

    And there’s this validation, if you convince ‘em. You get to tell yourself: hey, just ‘cos I can’t really buy it doesn’t mean there isn’t something to it… Look, I convinced this schmuck, anyway…

    (/And even if they don’t really believe it either, and are just mouthing it for the same complex of social reasons as I do, well, at least I’m not alone in that misery… Nor necessarily the stupidest/most pathetic guy in this room for having failed to call it the bullshit we probably both know it is…)

  48. #48 abb3w
    January 19, 2010

    Makes sense. Religions feed on social insecurity in exchange for providing a minimal social safety net (although one that doesn’t require a lot of brains to co-ordinate). An event that highlights serious holes in the current safety net makes it easier to induce cognitive dissonance and trigger the sort of reflective thinking to make converts.

    The bad PR associated would outweigh the impact at present, but perhaps if Dawkins’ atheist charity gets large enough it might eventually be able to put boots on the ground under a slogan on the lines of “Even if God is not there to help, we are.”

    The trick of conversions is to make sure there is a new structure of social practices (and thus, safety net) closely tied to the new belief, which “atheism” as a cultural movement lacks at present (although various sub-strains provide various alternatives). While Christian zealots are wrong when they presume (because they tend to be dumb) that destructive “me me me!” Nihilism is necessarily the only morality allowed by atheism, that kind of nihilism is the easiest kind of godless morality to understand, and thus dangerously likely to be the primary form of morality the dumbest percentiles will grasp after “conversion”. The last thing the typical disaster needs is a bunch of new nihilists running about; even only a few percent make matters a lot worse.

    That’s probably the real challenge atheism will face in the next few decades after basic recognition: dealing with the high-grade moron fraction who are currently only kept from sociopathy by “God sez not to do dat”.

  49. #49 Joshua Zelinsky
    January 19, 2010

    One does need to give some credit to some of the religious groups. Some of the more liberal Christian groups have sent help without any missionizing elements. That’s also true of the Jewish groups that have gone.

  50. #50 Lynna, OM
    January 19, 2010

    The solar-powered talking bibles are advertised as being loud enough to be heard by a 100 people. I thought the USA was out of the torture game.

  51. #51 Roger Kasman
    January 19, 2010

    I have a friend, a Scientologist, from the Memphis area. Went down to help in Charlotte, Florida after the hurricane.

    She stayed a month, handed out water, food, helped build temporary shelters, helped people clear debris from their property and salvage what personal belongings the could.

    From what she told me, all volunteers get utilized by authorities on the ground, doing whatever jobs are needed and what they are assigned to do, regardless of “religion”, non-religion, etc.

    Seems to me you are making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. My friend, as well as others, went to help those in need, similarly in Haiti I am certain.

  52. #52 Matt Penfold
    January 19, 2010

    Seems to me you are making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. My friend, as well as others, went to help those in need, similarly in Haiti I am certain.

    So tell us then, just what use will the people of Haiti be able to make of those E-Meters ?

  53. #53 shonny
    January 19, 2010

    Posted by: Pastor Farm Author Profile Page | January 19, 2010 12:48 AM

    But without the Scientologists, who he hell else is going to stand around and point at them?

    Oh, so that’s not just coded instructions for pedophiles on how to get away with touching up kids?

  54. #54 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    January 19, 2010

    The solar-powered talking bibles are advertised as being loud enough to be heard by a 100 people. I thought the USA was out of the torture game.

    Lynna, I know you did not come up with that blurb, but that makes no sense. Would not be a function of how loud the devise is and how many people are around it? Or will it be heard by the closest one hundred bodies around the infernal devise?

  55. #55 Lynna, OM
    January 19, 2010

    Janine @54: Yeah, senseless advertising blurbs for a senseless device. Measured how? Measured where? In what conditions. The main point is, it’s Loud! And that’s just another insult, one among many.

  56. #56 Occam's Machete
    January 19, 2010

    Re: Joshua Zelinsky #49 & Roger Kasman #51

    Anyone ‘doing good’ (even genuine good like supplying food and real medicine) under a religious flag is suspect in my book. Even if they aren’t overtly proselytizing, they’re still either doing it for the PR or they’re trying to get an upgrade on their cloud in the hereafter. Any credit they may be due is offset by the fact that they have ulterior motives. Why not just help in your capacity as a compassionate human being?

    But it’s still better than sending fucking e-meters!

  57. #57 tsg
    January 19, 2010

    Seems to me you are making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. My friend, as well as others, went to help those in need, similarly in Haiti I am certain.

    And what form that “help” takes is precisely what is in question here. See the article linked to in the OP for how they’ve “helped” in other disasters.

  58. #58 Lynna, OM
    January 19, 2010

    The “ministers” that John Travolta is sending to Haiti are leeches. Leeches have a very limited application in modern medicine, and none in psychology or in other mental health support systems.

    The ministers should be forbidden to eat or drink while they’re in Haiti. That would make them a little less leech-like.

    What may happen, and I’m probably being too optimistic here, is that “ministers” will be faced with so many practical problems related to survival that they won’t have time to pitch the woo. They will be forced by circumstances to help out, just like a normal non-woo-infected human being. It’s happened before, as someone up-thread noted.

  59. #59 Truckle
    January 19, 2010

    OT but the BBC has an article on ‘Why does God allow Natural Disasters?’

    I added my 2 penneth, but the replies to the article i saw would be an absolute goldmine for the Pharyngulitic Horde…

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8467755.stm

    Such unbelievable attempts to ‘rationalise’ the disaster with a belief in a just and good god…

  60. #60 Truckle
    January 19, 2010

    A perfect example of which is -

    “As an Anglican, I always had presumed that God is too big, if you like, too omnipotent to even vaguely notice humanity, after all we are dust: “from dust you are made and to dust you shall return”. Though the thought of that kind of horror being suffered by many innocents – and an apparent loving God is contradicting. However at least I find comfort, and probably most Christians, in the world to come where everything would be good, If you like God repaying his debts for letting us suffer.”

    Wow, just… wow! Can you say cognitive dissonance? I mean i would be really comforted by a god who couldnt give a flying fuck about our only life on his amazing creation ‘the Earth’…

    Sorry for the OT stuff but i just couldn’t help it.

  61. #61 alysonmiers
    January 19, 2010

    Scientology is like the Good Life section of Newsweek: proof that a rich fool and his great gobs of money are soon extravagantly parted.

    (Do they even do The Good Life in Newsweek anymore? I had a free subscription during my Peace Corps assignment and that section was always good for a snicker. Colorful evidence that rich people aren’t smarter than the rest of us!)

    Come on, rich fools, if you’re going to toss large sums of money at a disaster, toss it at IRC or MSF! Heck, just close your eyes and toss it in a random direction; at least then there’s a chance it’ll end up getting spent on needed supplies! In fact, if you’re going to throw your money to the wind, just toss it at a bunch of random ordinary folks; some of them might spend a little bit of it on charitable donations to groups that do not use “help” to mean “sit on our knees and talk to the sky”! And the rest will probably be spent on mortgage payments and restaurant meals, which won’t do anything for Haiti but at least it won’t get in the way!

  62. #62 Occam's Machete
    January 19, 2010

    Truckle, your ‘off-topic’ post is appreciated. My comment is awaiting approval at BBC site.

  63. #63 pdferguson
    January 19, 2010

    MetzO’Magic wrote:

    The comments over at TFA PZed linked to are outstanding: “Witchdoctors without Frontiers”.

    Sorry, without Borders.

    That’s perfectly understandable, you just conflated the English and French names: Les Kooks Sans Frontières

  64. #64 shonny
    January 19, 2010

    Posted by: pdferguson Author Profile Page | January 19, 2010 12:24 PM
    MetzO’Magic wrote:

    The comments over at TFA PZed linked to are outstanding: “Witchdoctors without Frontiers”.

    Sorry, without Borders.

    That’s perfectly understandable, you just conflated the English and French names: Les Kooks Sans Frontières

    Shouldn’t that be Docteurs de Sorcière sans Frontières?

  65. #65 Dark Matter
    January 19, 2010

    All jokes aside, what I fear is that the population will be dispersed -away from the cameras of course- as in New Orleans, and the place will be turned into a Free Prey Market Occupation Zone.

    A new “world’s largest embassy” will be built *again* and the place will be turned into another militarized hornet’s nest to pester the people of the Caribbean and Cuba and Venezuela in particular.

    Here we go again…

  66. #66 hznfrst
    January 19, 2010

    Considering Haiti’s track record as an utterly failed state for most of its existence, it seems to me that the most rational thing to do would be to colonize it. Seriously, how could they be worse off?

    The Dominican Republic would be the most sensible country to do this, except for both countries’ history of mutual animosity. Next in line would be one of the Caribbean’s French-speaking republics, then perhaps Haiti could end up being what it’s always had the potential to be, an attractive tourist destination with a real and benign government. Is it supposed to remain a slave to its history forever, just to preserve its “pride” as an independent basket case?

  67. #67 Epikt
    January 19, 2010

    Lynna, OM:

    The “ministers” that John Travolta is sending to Haiti are leeches.

    You mean John isn’t going himself? I’m sure the Haitians would be comforted by his presence, especially if he shows up in his white suit, disco-dancing to “Staying Alive.”

  68. #68 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    Considering Haiti’s track record as an utterly failed state for most of its existence, it seems to me that the most rational thing to do would be to colonize it. Seriously, how could they be worse off?

    yay for historical and political ignorance! Haiti wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it is if it weren’t for the constant meddling by Western powers. It’s not an “independent” basketcase, it’s a basketcase caused by constant Western intervention in its affairs.

    idiot.

  69. #69 eandh99
    January 19, 2010

    There are no French-speaking republics in the Caribbean, either – Guadaloupe and Martinique are not independent, they are part of France in much the same way that Hawaii is part of the US. If Haiti went back to being a French territory, wouldn’t France have to pay back the millions in reparations they collected for Haiti’s independence in the first place?

  70. #70 blf
    January 19, 2010

    Seems to me you are making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. My friend, as well as others, went to help those in need, similarly in Haiti I am certain.

    The best thing that (most) people can do right now is to donate money to proven organisations with experience in major disasters and/on Haiti, and which ideally have staff on the ground there. Groups like ICRC (Red Cross) and MSF (Doctors without Borders). Going yourself, or in many cases, donating stuff, isn’t the best method of helping—at the current time. (That may change as the needs evolve, and the focus shifts to reconstruction et al., but at the moment it’s rarely helpful: You’ll give the wrong stuff, get in the way, and needlessly consume the time, money, and resources of the groups that can help, know how to help, and are helping.)

  71. #71 hznfrst
    January 19, 2010

    Why are so many of you OMs such foul-mouthed bozos, Jadehawk? If you want to correct me it’s possible to do it helpfully rather than spitefully. I ignore vicious personal attacks such as yours, but will respond just this once by pointing out that Haiti is hardly the only country that has been messed with by the West.

    Maybe it should go back to being a French colony. They don’t have to worry about being enslaved again, and I’d like to see anyone make the case that they’d be worse off for it.

  72. #72 Celtic_Evolution
    January 19, 2010

    Why are so many of you OMs such foul-mouthed bozos, Jadehawk? If you want to correct me it’s possible to do it fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap…

    When argument is weak, attack tone… lather, rinse, repeat…

  73. #73 lose_the_woo
    January 19, 2010

    You mean John isn’t going himself? I’m sure the Haitians would be comforted by his presence, especially if he shows up in his white suit, disco-dancing to “Staying Alive.”

    To me, he’ll always and forever be the dopey “too cool for school” Vinnie Barbarino.

  74. #74 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    maybe because I’m fucking sick of ignorant idiots who still believe in the White Man’s Burden?

    There’s only so many times I can repeat the same information. Why are you not capable of informing yourself about these things before spouting racist nonsense?

  75. #75 hznfrst
    January 19, 2010

    Ah, the old racist tag again. What’s your solution to Haiti, O Enlightened One?

  76. #76 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    Ah, the old racist tag again. What’s your solution to Haiti, O Enlightened One?

    to ask the Haitians what they want me to do for them. You know, the way organizations lik Mercy Corps, Grassroots International, Via Campesina etc do. Stop treating Haitians like puppets, or children who don’t know what’s best for them and need a parent to tell them what to do.

  77. #77 KZT
    January 19, 2010

    @hznfrst

    Yes, let the French in to colonise. We need another Rwanda. French Africa- the model of european colonisation.

    I think the concept of “colonising” Haiti is about as morally bankrupt as squatting in someone’s house because they’re in hospital.

  78. #78 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    January 19, 2010

    Ah, the old racist tag again. What’s your solution to Haiti, O Enlightened One?

    Is that a defense to being called a racist?

  79. #79 david.utidjian
    January 19, 2010

    From the link: commenter Novaload wins the internets with,

    Scientologists == Witchdoctors without Borders

    -DU-

  80. #80 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    January 19, 2010

    Yes, let the French in to colonise. We need another Rwanda. French Africa- the model of european colonisation.

    In total fairness, I understand they’re doing pretty well /now/ with French Guyana as a department of France (Like any other department).

  81. #81 llewelly
    January 19, 2010

    hznfrst | January 19, 2010 2:21 PM:

    Why are so many of you OMs such foul-mouthed bozos, Jadehawk?

    hm, hznfrst spouts racist garbage, and Jadehawk calls him on it, but Jadehawk is “foul-mouthed”?

    (A picture of hznfrst.)

  82. #82 hznfrst
    January 19, 2010

    Celtic, way to miss the point about the desirability of keeping a civil tone during these discussions. Do you think this is unimportant?

    Jadehawk, what makes you think I’m white or that my motivation is “White Man’s Burden”? Omniscience much?

    To the rest of the critics, please tell me how badly off the present-day French colonies are compared to Haiti. What’s that you say – they aren’t perfect?! Oh dear me! But the question is how do they compare with the gloriously independent Haiti, gleaming in the sun blazing on the ground denuded of trees?

    And consider that while you all fret about preserving your precious political correctness, real people are suffering because you automatically refuse to consider this one possible long-term solution!

  83. #83 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    Jadehawk, what makes you think I’m white or that my motivation is “White Man’s Burden”? Omniscience much?

    where did I say you were white? are white people suddenly the only one’s capable of racism*? You don’t have to be white to talk about the White Man’s Burden, and that’s precisely what you’re doing when you’re talking about recolonizing Haiti “for their own good”. It’s irrelevant why you’re doing it, or if you yourself are white. It’s still racist White Man’s Burden rhetoric.

    —–

    *To claim you can’t be, for example, black and racist against blacks is pretty much as stupid as claiming that Phyllis Schlafly’s politics aren’t sexist towards women.

  84. #84 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    And consider that while you all fret about preserving your precious political correctness, real people are suffering because you automatically refuse to consider this one possible long-term solution!

    have you asked the Haitians if they want to be recolonized? because quite frankly, this isn’t your decision to make. Let me say this again: stop treating other people like puppets and children.

    Not to mention that you’re still ignoring the fact that the reason Haiti is in the current situation is precisely BECAUSE the Western world continues to fuck with them for their own benefit. Ever heard the line about learning from history or being doomed to repeat it?

  85. #85 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    January 19, 2010

    Fuck self determination, hznfrst knows what’s best for everyone.

  86. #86 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    January 19, 2010

    hznfrst knows what’s best for everyone.

    *snicker*

  87. #87 MetzO'Magic
    January 19, 2010

    OT but the BBC has an article on ‘Why does God allow Natural Disasters?’

    Ha ha ha. The author of that article own-goals himself with the famous quote in the second para by David Hume:

    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?

    Why continue after that? Kind of makes the rest of the article pointless. Now if he had *finished* with that quote…

  88. #88 llewelly
    January 19, 2010

    hznfrst | January 19, 2010 2:21 PM:

    Why are so many of you OMs such foul-mouthed bozos, Jadehawk?

    hm, hznfrst spouts racist garbage, and Jadehawk calls him on it, but Jadehawk is “foul-mouthed”?

    (A picture of hznfrst.)

  89. #89 Knockgoats
    January 19, 2010

    Ah, the old racist tag again. David Duke hznfrst

  90. #90 bckcntry
    January 19, 2010

    Has there ever been any Scientology trolls here on Pharyngula? I would imagine that would make an entertaining read. Different,anyway.

  91. #91 professordendy
    January 19, 2010

    Sounds to me Raven who said “Scientology is all about money. They drain your bank account into theirs.” that Scientology is much like Liberalism… the difference is Liberals want to “drain your bank account” so they can spread it around equally to others!

  92. #92 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    don’t you have your own blog to go and be a moron on dendy?

  93. #93 aratina cage of the OM
    January 19, 2010

    Get teh fuck out, Dendy. Nobody here has time for your bigoted words and your conniptions.

  94. #94 professordendy
    January 19, 2010

    Oh yeah… I forgot to give you a link to it Ichthyic…
    http://lifeisgrandandotherlies.blogspot.com/2010/01/number-one-liberal-lie.html
    sorry :(

  95. #95 Gyeong Hwa Pak, the Pikachu of Anthropology
    January 19, 2010

    Dendy the troll is here, and stalking raven no less.

  96. #96 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    yes, yes you are.

  97. #97 tsg
    January 19, 2010

    the difference is Liberals want to “drain your bank account” so they can spread it around equally to others!

    And conservatives want to drain your bank account so they can keep it for themselves.

    You’re not the only one who can throw around stupid generalizations as if they mean something. The difference is I don’t actually believe mine….

  98. #98 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    January 19, 2010

    Sounds to me Raven who said “Scientology is all about money. They drain your bank account into theirs.” that Scientology is much like Liberalism… the difference is Liberals want to “drain your bank account” so they can spread it around equally to others!

    But not at all like your religion, amirite?

  99. #99 professordendy
    January 19, 2010

    What… we only live in a country that’s free if you are “Liberal?” I thought we have the freedom to express our thoughts. Isn’t that what makes the world interesting?

  100. #100 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    we only live in a country that’s free if you are “Liberal?”

    says the homophopic xian bigot.

  101. #101 Gyeong Hwa Pak, the Pikachu of Anthropology
    January 19, 2010

    Dendy is mistaking criticism for oppression again. Fucking Fatwah envy.

  102. #102 professordendy
    January 19, 2010

    Or you can find a more “colorful” version of my last comment here:
    http://professordendy.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/surprise-surprise-surprise/

  103. #103 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    …homophobic, even

    I thought we have the freedom to express our thoughts.

    I am expressing my thoughts, that you are a complete imbecile.

    Isn’t that what makes the world interesting?

    in your case?

    actually, no.

    you really are terribly uninteresting.

    you are however, fun to poke a stick at.

  104. #104 Gyeong Hwa Pak, the Pikachu of Anthropology
    January 19, 2010

    He is blogwhoring.

  105. #105 Ichthyic
    January 19, 2010

    Or you can find a more “colorful” version of my last comment here:

    homophobic.
    bigot.

    you’re part of the problem, Dendy…
    we’re coming for you…

    and so are “they”…

  106. #106 Jadehawk, OM
    January 19, 2010

    please not how the dendy-troll is NOT defending Scientologists the way he was defending Christologists. Yay for double standards!

  107. #107 SC OM
    January 19, 2010

    homophopic

    Nikonian slip. :)

  108. #108 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    January 19, 2010

    What… we only live in a country that’s free if you are “Liberal?” I thought we have the freedom to express our thoughts. Isn’t that what makes the world interesting?

    Freedom of Expression doesn’t protect you from social consequences of the stupid shit you say, only the legal ones. Yes, yes you can express yourself. So can we. Watch.

    You’re a fucking idiot. Freedom!

  109. #109 WowbaggerOM
    January 19, 2010

    professordendrophiliac wrote:

    What… we only live in a country that’s free if you are “Liberal?”

    The only reason anyone in your country is ‘free’ is because of the efforts of ‘liberals’ you fucking clown shoe.

    You’re a stupid pissant. Why don’t you go and spend some more time sucking up to Jesus rather than wasting our time here with your inane comments and pathetic blogwhoring?

  110. #110 professordendy
    January 20, 2010

    Wow… if you guys work on it, you may be able to say even bigger words than “pissant.” I am totally impressed!

    It seems as though the PZ followers once again show their limited vocabulary… WOW!

  111. #111 professordendy
    January 20, 2010

    Very boring though… And since no one is so inflamed by my blog posts as to leave comments tonight, I think I will turn in and read a good book. Nite, nite!

  112. #112 pdferguson
    January 20, 2010

    professordildo blathered:

    What… we only live in a country that’s free if you are “Liberal?” I thought we have the freedom to express our thoughts. Isn’t that what makes the world interesting?

    Interesting? You think your juvenile liberal bashing and shameless blogwhoring is interesting?

    What a fuckin’ douchebag…

  113. #113 Gyeong Hwa Pak, the Pikachu of Anthropology
    January 20, 2010

    It seems as though the PZ followers once again show their limited vocabulary…

    Wow. That was a pathetic ad hominem and a pathetic insult. But hey, with your argumentative skills, you should expect that the readers here will treat you like a 12-year-old.

    Very boring though… And since no one is so inflamed by my blog posts as to leave comments tonight, I think I will turn in and read a good book. Nite, nite!

    You truly are a blogwhore. Is your omnipotent God not keeping you companion? Perhaps he has another lap dog that he prefers.

  114. #114 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    January 20, 2010

    I see the perfessor is full of himself. But then, he is an ignorant godbot, and loves to prove it. I wonder how long it takes him to comb his hair in the morning, since he loves himself so much. Definitely longer than me.

  115. #115 Ichthyic
    January 20, 2010

    I am totally impressed!

    since you post here more than on your own blog, I’d say not only are you really impressed, but desperate for our attention.

    How does it feel to be desperate for the attention of those you publicly despise?

  116. #116 MolBio
    January 20, 2010

    I have an idea.

    How about an international guideline for disaster aid relief.

    All aid must come in the form of:
    Experts (ground co-ordination, disease control, engineers, sanitaion, and other qualified personnel of recognised institutions able to co-ordinate projects of aid organisations).

    Food supplies (as implied, prioritised by nutritional value, storability, ease to load / unload).

    Medical supplies (as implied, prioritised by immediate need, and value calculated through triage formula and overall number or demand).

    Construction team (as implied, general building of shelters and other needed structures including water purification).

    Medical team (as implied. Faith based medical teams are allowed 1 chaplain, with role limited to a field hospital only -last rites etc.- chaplain may not desseminate religious materials, and no distributable religious materials may come in with the hospital team.

    Penalties for abuse should be calculated by working out how much real help was displaced as a result of wasteful behaviour in breach of the rules, the human life cost as a result of useful aid displacement, and those responsible charged with manslaughter or some form of criminal negligence for each life lost as a result of denial of aid caused by resource displacement.

  117. #117 spunmunkey
    January 20, 2010

    Scientology volunteer ministers – the real rundown –

    @ 51 – Roger Kasman’s *ahem* ‘friend’ obviously forgot to mention that Scientology ‘volunteer’ ministers just turn up to a disaster. They bring no aid (other than their ridiculous ‘touch assists’), they bring no supplies for themselves (instead asking for tents, food and water for their own use from other aid organizations), and then ? inveigle themselves with other agencies to ‘deliver’ those agencies aid, whilst wearing yellow t-shirts and making out that it’s their aid that they’re selflessly handing out…

    Unfortunately for Roger and his ‘friend’ ? more information is getting out about how these so-called ‘volunteer’ ministers go about their business at tragic events.

    http://www.cosvm.org/disrupt.htm

    And – it seems – this isn’t the first time they use tragedy to push their agenda:

    http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/germany/021013.htm

    Oh ? and after all that BS about their help for emergency personnel after 9/11 ? why have we not seen even 1 worker miraculously ‘cured’ from the problems that they developed after being caught in Ground Zero?… yeah – ’cause massive, poisonous doses of Niacin and sauna treatments ‘detox’ people (um, no they don’t – but I’d take up too much time explaining – and I’m pretty sure most rational people on this site would know why)…

    Bring it on Scienotrolls…

  118. #118 MetzO'Magic
    January 20, 2010

    Scientology volunteer ministers – the real rundown -

    Thanks for the links, spunmunkey. Wow. I thought I was pretty well read up on the Scientology antics, but what they did in the wake of 9/11 takes the biscuit. Just… wow. Almost an all-time low, which is pretty hard considering what the Co$ gets up to.

  119. #119 tsg
    January 20, 2010

    What… we only live in a country that’s free if you are “Liberal?” I thought we have the freedom to express our thoughts. Isn’t that what makes the world interesting?

    You are free to say whatever the hell you want, just as we are free to say you are a moron for saying it. Freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of what you say.

    Very boring though… And since no one is so inflamed by my blog posts as to leave comments tonight, I think I will turn in and read a good book. Nite, nite!

    Boring troll is boring.

    and blogwhoring.

  120. #120 'Tis Himself, OM
    January 20, 2010

    since no one is so inflamed by my blog posts as to leave comments tonight

    The “perfesser” admits that he only came here to troll and blogwhore.

  121. #121 Ring Tailed Lemurian
    January 20, 2010

    Mildly OT, but I just had to post this (from here)

    Ena Zizi had been at a church meeting at the residence of Haiti’s Roman Catholic archbishop when last week’s earthquake struck, trapping her. She was rescued yesterday by a Mexican disaster team.
    Zizi said that after the quake, she spoke back and forth with a vicar who also was trapped. But after a few days, he fell silent, and she spent the rest of the time praying and waiting.
    “I talked only to my boss, God,” she said. “And I didn’t need any more humans.”

    Maybe she should have told the Mexican humans that before they got to her, and then they could have spent their valuable time looking for someone more appreciative.

  122. #122 blf
    January 20, 2010

    hznfrst@82:

    [P]lease tell me how badly off the present-day French colonies are compared to Haiti.

    What “present-day French colonies”???
    Name one.

    Most of France’s colonies had obtained independence by the 1960s. Four of the ones that remained became French departments, and the rest became territories (of which there are several types). In both cases they have full voting representation in the French parliament.

  123. #123 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    January 20, 2010

    Speaking charitably for hznfirst, he may have meant that Haiti should ask to be a department of France.

  124. #124 JIMeTee
    January 20, 2010

    Bloody Scientologist! they must be going to look for the transformers who caused this disaster! I donated £5. if everyone did the same we’d be halfway there to rebuiling this poor, desperate country. keep the religious nutballs out and let the professionals do their jobs.

  125. #125 jwissick
    January 24, 2010