Pharyngula

Happy Threadiversary!

The endless thread apparently turns one year old today. What the heck have you people been talking about?

Anyway, you know the drill. Comments on the old post closed, commenting resumes here. Are you planning to keep it up for another year?

May your conversations continue to blossom.

Comments

  1. #1 Pygmy Loris
    February 24, 2010

    YAY! Our Threadmas gift from the Overlord!

    On a serious note, I just want to second those who said that any suicide threat should be taken seriously. It’s hard to tell if someone might actually attempt suicide, and it is better to err on the side of caution.

  2. #2 strange gods before me ?
    February 24, 2010

    I love that video.

    Who else made wishes on dandelions as a kid?

  3. #3 llewelly
    February 24, 2010

    Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 9:11 PM:

    I am highly amused by our Official SpokesGay’s declarations of love for the ladies. He gets so much action!

    Godddamnit! I should have known! He’s been pretending to be gay in order to win over the ladies! What a cad! I wish I’d thought of that!

  4. #4 aratina cage of the OM
    February 24, 2010

    We’ve crossed over into the next annual dimension of Teh Thread! Merry Threadmas Day Pharyngulistas!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMnKuiHRCig#t=1m59s

  5. #5 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 24, 2010

    You’re a damned poopyhead PZ. I was in the middle of a post, when you killed the thread thereby forcing me to retype my html tags.

    Do you all remember that drive by troll Age of Enlightenment? Well he just left his shit at TWO

    honestly had no idea that coming here (after reading a random article on a site I now don’t even remember) to find out who this PZ Myers person was, and why he was tossed out of a cinema screening of some creationist film in the US would lead to this site becoming a constant fixture in my life

    I found Pharyngula via Wikipedia. It was an article on the criticism of New Scientist’s “Darwin was Wrong” article.

    Josh, be my beard and I’ll be your beard!

    Bears

    Big Love focuses on a polygamist family in Utah. It’s uncannily accurate.

    There was an article on polygamists families in the US on NatGeo I believe.

  6. #6 badgersdaughter
    February 24, 2010

    My own grandmother struggled with severe depression after the death of my mom. She, too, was a strong, self-sufficient type. She, too, confided in a friend that she was so lonely and so upset that she felt like “taking a bunch of pills and going to sleep and not waking up anymore.” The friend told my uncle, and my uncle did something rather perceptive, given that he is far from being a perceptive man… he bought her a tiny white kitten. My grandmother did not feel like living for herself, but she could not die and leave her kitten to be found alone. I know, it’s weird, but I’ve felt the same way… if something happened to me, who knows what would happen to my kitties.

    Anyway, my uncle did take her to the doctor, and she got a re-evaluation of her existing meds, which proved to be contributing to her state of mind. With different prescriptions and dosages, and a gentle antidepressant, she was able to turn things around and function. It all happened gradually, and she had a few bad days before she was well. The kitten helped take her mind off of her troubles.

    Grandma now laughs at herself for being depressed… well, she was always very hard on herself, a terrible family failing… but at least now she is laughing and not crying.

  7. #7 Lynna, OM
    February 24, 2010

    Ah, isn’t that sweet! PZ is not telling us to get a life this time!

    Let’s start this off with some more good news! Md. attorney general: State to recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere

    Maryland Attorney General Douglas F. Gansler (D) said Wednesday that effective immediately, and until challenged in court, the state recognizes same-sex marriages performed elsewhere and that Maryland agencies should begin affording out-of-state gay couples all the rights they have been awarded in other places.

  8. #8 Rey Fox
    February 24, 2010

    So, how ’bout that Watchmen movie, huh?

  9. #9 WowbaggerOM
    February 24, 2010

    Are you planning to keep it up for another year?

    Damn straight.

    Admittedly, it does depend on what’s being discussed. Sometimes it’s not to my tastes; other times it’s exactly what I’m in the mood for.

    Then, of course, there are the times like today where I’m just feeling weird from too little sleep and I have to express myself somehow or I’ll end up running around the streets trying to convince people I’m a time-travelling space zombie from the future.

  10. #10 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 24, 2010

    I love how the stamens wave around after anthesis!

    What did the stamen say to impress the pistil?

    You’ve got style!

    Har! Botany Wednesday rocks almost as much as drink coffee and fsck around Sunday.

  11. #11 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 24, 2010

    Maryland Attorney General Douglas F. Gansler (D) said Wednesday that effective immediately, and until challenged in court,

    Thank you, Mr. Maryland Attorney General Douglas F. Gansler Sir, for setting the whole thing up.

  12. #12 badgersdaughter
    February 24, 2010

    I’m a time-travelling space zombie from the future.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  13. #13 Lynna, OM
    February 24, 2010

    A gem from Jack Gilbert, whose most recent collection, REFUSING HEAVEN, won both the National Book Critics Circle award and the Los Angeles Times Book Prize for poetry.

    Getting Away with It

    We have already lived in the real paradise.
    Horses in the empty summer street.
    Me eating the hot wurst I couldn’t afford,
    in frozen Munich, tears dropping. We can
    remember. A child in the outfield waiting
    for the last fly ball of the year. So dark
    already it was black against heaven.
    The voices trailing away to dinner,
    calling faintly in the immense distance.
    Standing with my hands open, watching it
    curve over and start down, turning white
    at the last second. Hands down. Flourishing.
    About REFUSING HEAVEN

  14. #14 AJ Milne
    February 24, 2010

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Heck, no… Some of the nicest people I know are traveeling space zombies from the future.

  15. #15 Pygmy Loris
    February 24, 2010

    So, how ’bout that Watchmen movie, huh?

    I actually just saw it the other day. I feel very blah about it.

  16. #16 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 24, 2010

    Heck, no… Some of the nicest people I know are traveeling space zombies from the future.

    Many of my friends are time-traveling space zombies. I let them use my bathroom, too.

  17. #17 AJ Milne
    February 24, 2010

    (/… also, they can’t type either.)

  18. #18 SC OM
    February 24, 2010

    Happy Threadiversary!

    Trying to link to Dr Michael White’s “Give It Up (Gypsy second Line),” to no avail.
    :(

  19. #19 Caine
    February 24, 2010

    Happy Threadiversary everyone!

    Who else made wishes on dandelions as a kid?

    I did. Used to call them wishes. They are a favourite subject of mine to photograph.

  20. #20 Dahan
    February 24, 2010

    Well I for one, welcome the new year of this endless thread. Type away people. I just lurk on these things. I can’t keep up.

  21. #21 MrFire
    February 24, 2010

    strange gods,

    All I can suggest is that suicide is more often planned than performed on impulse (source), although how one goes about determining the characteristics attendant to either mindset, I am not sure – and would not dare speculate.

    What the heck have you people been talking about?

    Everything I learned in life I learned at Pharyngula.

  22. #22 badgersdaughter
    February 24, 2010

    I had a childhood friend who was a time-traveling space zombie. I lost touch with him until just last week, when I met him again for the first time.

  23. #23 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 24, 2010
  24. #25 AJ Milne
    February 24, 2010

    Everything I learned in life I learned at Pharyngula.

    1. Life evolves. Deal with it.

    2. Troll stomping is good fun.

    3. But if your arches start to cramp, a roundhouse kick to their gut is also a good option.

    4. Nothing makes your point like RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS in your ARGUMENT.

    5. Or randomly marking it up in illegible secondary colours.

    6. There will always be someone wrong on the internet.

    (/7. And it will always be your job to correct them.)

  25. #26 badgersdaughter
    February 24, 2010

    SC OM, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of Gogol Bordello.

    Fucking amazing. Yay!

  26. #27 Pygmy Loris
    February 24, 2010

    AJ Milne,

    awesome!

  27. #28 Pygmy Loris
    February 24, 2010

    Enjoy Threadmas guys and gals. I’m off to bed.

  28. #29 Jason A.
    February 24, 2010

    I’d like to see a graph of the number of days to fill up each iteration of the endless thread. Say N (where N is which iteration # of each version, starting at zero for the original) as a function of the number of days iteration N was active. Then we could fit a curve to it. Exponential? Linear? Periodic? Something weird? Then we could do all kinds of fun things with it.

    Somebody should make that happen…

  29. #30 strange gods before me ?
    February 24, 2010

    (PZ deleted my FAUST POST. I thought I was being cleverly annoying, but no, apparently not clever.)

    I’m going out for the night. I’m probably going to visit my friend tomorrow, and if so I’ll find out who her health insurance provider is, so we can start looking for therapists who accept that provider.

  30. #31 MrFire
    February 24, 2010

    continuing AJ Milne @25:

    8. You cannot kill this thread.

    9. Nerd of Redhead will always demand evidence and never get an answer.

    10. The stupid is always weapons-grade, and it always burns.

  31. #32 aratina cage of the OM
    February 24, 2010

    PZ deleted my FAUST POST. I thought I was being cleverly annoying, but no, apparently not clever.

    The same thing happened to another OM a while back (link). There be no gettin round it.

  32. #33 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 24, 2010

    Oink!

  33. #34 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 24, 2010

    Oink!

    Moo?

  34. #35 bart.mitchell
    February 24, 2010

    Ok, Ill finally post in the endless thread for the first time.

    I have a question for all the OM members. Once you receive the honor, do you feel obligated to continue posting? Once so recognized, is it your duty to protect your personal philosophy in small comment boxes? And do you get any badges? Or perhaps an embossed document?

    Im a sporadic poster. As work permits, Ill get the chance to dive in conversations here and there, then race off to avert my companies next disaster. In all those in and out dashes, I’m amazed at the stamina of the small group of dedicated posters who make this their daily routine. I cant blame them, and I’m a bit envious. I relish the days I get to spend sparing with the sharp foils of word play.

    Ah well, enough purple prose.

  35. #36 SC OM
    February 24, 2010

    SC OM, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of Gogol Bordello.

    Fucking amazing. Yay!

    This is probably their best known:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkkIwO_X4i4&feature=PlayList&p=A277CB450121B504&index=0&playnext=1

    Enjoy!

  36. #37 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Numbers added.

    I have a question for all the OM members. 1) Once you receive the honor, do you feel obligated to continue posting? 2) Once so recognized, is it your duty to protect your personal philosophy in small comment boxes? 3) And do you get any badges? 4) Or perhaps an embossed document?

    1) No obligation – but it kind of feels good to know people like reading what you write. But many of the OMs are no longer regulars here – sadly.
    2) Size does not matter.
    3) Not that I’m aware of.
    4) See 3)

  37. #39 otrame
    February 25, 2010

    Happy Threadmas all.

    Carry on.

  38. #40 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I deliver the gift of music. Here is some Richard Thompson.

    Oop! I Did It Again!

    Vincent Black Lightning 1952

    When The Spell Is Broken

  39. #41 Daniel de Rauglaudre
    February 25, 2010
  40. #42 pcarini
    February 25, 2010

    I thought I’d jump in here right at the top and say that I really like the SciBlogs discussion thread model. Seriously.

    Specifically, I like that it doesn’t nest or hide replies the same way a traditional “threaded” discussion board would, forcing me to at least glance at the tangent discussions that are going on. I also like that it loads the entire thing into a single page, which, IMO, improves the flow and continuity. If I want to see whether someone has already said what I’m about to post in a thread, I just have to search the page for relevant terms. (This also keeps me from posting that often, since somebody has usually said what I’m going to say, more eloquently.)

    TL;DR: SciBlogs unique discussion format causes the discussions to happen differently than some other format might, and I like the difference.

    I’m interested to hear what other people think —

    p.s. If they could make the threads better handle 1k+ posts, I’m all for it, but that may just be the price we pay for this thread model.

  41. #43 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    pcarini @ 42:

    I’m interested to hear what other people think —

    The format is fine. I’d dearly like to be able to edit though.

  42. #44 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Dang, that was a weird, wasted trip. A little snow on the road, a little falling, no problem to an ex-Yooper. But not to the area drivers. Eventually we are crawling along the Edens at 10-15 mph, and the snow is giving almost white-out conditions. I’m not even half way there, been traveling an hour, and traffic is getting even slower. So I bailed not knowing quite where I was. Cleaned off the car in a Border’s parking lot, got my bearings, and headed east. Eventually ran into a familiar north south road, turned north. Meanwhile, it stopped snowing, and the roads were plowed. No traffic to speak of, and no more snow, semi-pleasant drive home. Total travel time, about 2.5 hours, which is a normal down-back time. Just checked the Doppler radar, and the main storm is over downtown Chicago where I was headed. The Redhead will catch a train, and I’ll pick her up at the station. But I won’t get to bed until 1:30.

  43. #45 pcarini
    February 25, 2010

    The format is fine. I’d dearly like to be able to edit though.

    As would I. See “… but that may just be the price we pay for this thread model.”, that may really should be a might.

  44. #46 pcarini
    February 25, 2010

    Also: Holy crap! It’s been a year of these threads ?!? How often are they being filled up now, every day or two?

    re Editing your comments: It should be allowed, but only if a history of the edits is publicly available. As much as I hate the idea of people seeing the mistakes I’ve fixed, I’d rather not have some troll get away with changing its original post and then accuse people of misquoting it.

  45. #47 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Rey Fox | February 24, 2010 10:44 PM:

    So, how ’bout that Watchmen movie, huh?

    You know … I still haven’t seen it.

  46. #48 Bastion Of Sass
    February 25, 2010

    Happy Threadiversary to you,
    Happy Threadiversary to you,
    Happy Threadiversary Endless Thre-a-a-d (and commenters,)
    Happy Threadiversary to y-o-o-o-o-ou!

    Enjoy your very special day, Endless Thread.

    And a Happy Monkey to you all, and to all a good night!!

  47. #49 The Silent Moose of Doom
    February 25, 2010
  48. #50 phi1ip
    February 25, 2010

    It’s nearly 50 posts in and no one has mentioned bacon? Happy Threadiversary everyone…

  49. #51 Cath the Canberra Cook
    February 25, 2010

    Wait, what? This thread moves too fast. I meant to go back to the last one, and note that I was a complete doofus, and have never in fact met Wowbagger. I was confusing him with someone else.

    I’m pretty sure that by now no-one cares. Just in case, though – my apologies to Wowbagger.

  50. #52 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 10:44 PM:

    Let’s start this off with some more good news! Md. attorney general: State to recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere

    Last paragraph from your link:

    Del. Don Dwyer (R-Anne Arundel) said he was convinced Gansler’s opinion would be overturned by courts and promised to bring articles of impeachment against the attorney general for trying to usurp Maryland law, which strictly defines marriage as only between a man and a woman.

    (Link added by me. Check out Don Dwyer’s left side bar links. See also Pam’s house blend.)
    That’s right folks. This Christianist wants to impeach someone for standing up for people’s rights.

  51. #53 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 25, 2010

    Janine etc. @ 40: Here is some Richard Thompson.

    He’s making a new CD, recording it live, all new material. We spent last night at the Great American Music Hall listening to Take One, I guess, and (second set) older stuff.

    Cost us some bux, a drive over the Bay Bridge in sideways torrential rain and wind and rush-hour traffic, and a longish walk through the Tenderloin where it was apparently Acting Out Night. Worth it.

  52. #54 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    I’m pretty sure that by now no-one cares. Just in case, though – my apologies to Wowbagger.

    That’s fine, Cath – it was the source of some fun conversation, which is worth the momentary confusion it caused.

    It also made me wonder whether or not someone could (or would) ever attempt to pass themselves off in real life as one of the regulars here – and, if they did, whether or not it’d be appropriate to refer to them as fauxryngulites…

  53. #55 Kel, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I was confusing him with someone else.

    I’m curious which one you thought was Wowbagger*.

    *if it indeed was someone at the Skeptics In The Pub

  54. #56 elzoog
    February 25, 2010

    You guys might find this site funny:

    http://www.jakearchibald.co.uk/homeopathy/

    It fits religious thinking to a T!

  55. #57 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I have a question for all the OM members. 1) Once you receive the honor, do you feel obligated to continue posting? 2) Once so recognized, is it your duty to protect your personal philosophy in small comment boxes? 3) And do you get any badges? 4) Or perhaps an embossed document?

    1. No obligations — that’s the beauty of it
    2. “personal philosophy” is still in development, so little or nothing to protect or defend
    3. I have a breastplate, but it may or may not be official Order of the Molly attire (may have to check with Patricia on this)
    4. We get an embossing via orgy, or is that an embossed orgy? Or is it only the female OMs that participate in embossure?

  56. #58 onethird-man
    February 25, 2010

    Not sure if the news had broken on a to-be-published-in-March sociology paper on atheism and liberalism. Or on what anyone had thought about it.

  57. #59 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 25, 2010

    1. No obligations — that’s the beauty of it 2. . . I have a breastplate, but it may or may not be official Order of the Molly attire . . .

    See how she is? Comes trundling in here, breasteses first, and expects everyone to just bow down to the Brass Bra. Well, I, for one, am not gonna take it anymore. Unless I get a die-cast replica of that breast-plate right fuckin’ now

  58. #60 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Person at #53.

    Do you mean this? The last time I saw him live was in 2002. Yeah, even under the conditions you are talking about, he is well worth it.

    Dark End Of The Street

    The Poor Ditching Boy

  59. #61 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Caine | February 25, 2010 12:32 AM:

    I’d dearly like to be able to edit though.

    Me too. Then, when one of my arguments was refuted, I could go back and edit my post to contain a different argument. No more admitting I was wrong.

  60. #62 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    (PZ deleted my FAUST POST. I thought I was being cleverly annoying, but no, apparently not clever.)

    I saw it before it was deleted. LOLed.

    llewely @52: Yeah, I saw that bit of chip-on-my-shoulder macho posturing by Dwyer. His mind is so narrow that he thinks only in two dimensions.

  61. #63 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    I can’t believe no-one’s commented on my coining the term fauxryngulites as the word for someone impersonating one of us.

    C’mon! That’s a terrible pun; it deserves a response!

  62. #64 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    AJ Milne | February 24, 2010 11:08 PM:

    4. Nothing makes your point like RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS in your ARGUMENT.

    If you SHRILL atheists weren’t so MEAN and RUDE, if you would only MODERATE your TONE, no-one would NEED to YELL!!

  63. #65 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Groannnnn.

  64. #66 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 25, 2010

    Mmm. . I’m making potato pancakes. I seem to remember some Pharyngulite hates them. . .

  65. #67 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    See how she is? Comes trundling in here, breasteses first, and expects everyone to just bow down to the Brass Bra. Well, I, for one, am not gonna take it anymore. Unless I get a die-cast replica of that breast-plate right fuckin’ now [!!!]

    I’ll see what I can do, SpokesGay. It would be kinda like the Plaster Casters, only for boobs. The result might be decor-worthy.

    I definitely don’t want to be allowed to edit. I spend too much time here as it is. And I don’t need to encourage my penchant for perfection — don’t feed the addiction.

    And think about it — if we let trolls edit their comments, they’d go back and remove all the entertaining bits where they unwittingly revealed the astonishing depths of their ignorance.

    And what about that time Bride of Shrek “pooped” her head in instead of popping her head in? Perfection is overrated.

  66. #68 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 25, 2010

    Perfection is overrated.

    Except when you add to our perfection, Lynna. Lower your breast plate, and prepare to be assimilated. Your biological and sartorial distinctiveness will be added to our own.

    Comply.

    /Locutus of Gay

  67. #69 onethird-man
    February 25, 2010

    Well, I’ve not seen mention of it, so here goes:

    Saw this tidbit, it seems like a bizarre baiting article, I’m not sure what to make of it:
    http://www.asanet.org/press/20100223/Evolution_and_Intelligence.cfm

    Anyone have any thoughts, or is this old news?

  68. #70 onethird-man
    February 25, 2010

    …then of course there’s this article, saying basically that people have a link between the capability of being miserable and dying:

    http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/ucla-researchers-find-genetic-154129.aspx

    …while some mutants don’t have this link, which makes me wonder what advantage or selection process was at work that made it so that undergoing stress meant you died sooner…

    …additionally, this means “The Secret” would only work for mutants. But not really. It would only look like it did.

  69. #71 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    I’m curious which one you thought was Wowbagger

    …personally I’m kind of hoping he looks like George Clooney. You see I KNOW what Rorscach looks like and I’m sitting between them at the GAC dinner.

    I’ll be the chick surrounded by spunky atheists.

  70. #72 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Covers of RT songs.

    How Will I Ever Be Simple Again-Emmylou Harris

    Strange Affair-June Tabor

    Dimming Of The Day-Mary Black

  71. #73 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Josh OSG

    Except when you add to our perfection, Lynna. Lower your breast plate, and prepare to be assimilated. Your biological and sartorial distinctiveness will be added to our own.

    Comply.

    /Locutus of Gay

    ..see now I always thought with Locutus of Gay it would be “lower your codpiece”.

  72. #74 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    which makes me wonder what advantage or selection process was at work that made it so that undergoing stress meant you died sooner…

    it’s the FSM’s way of telling you you need to smoke more pot :-p

    as for the other article… wtf does “unnatural” mean? sounds like someone read too much EP and believed all of their stories… but, IANASociologist (yet?), so ignore my ramblings.

    oh, and: “An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals.”

    does that make me supersmart…? :-p

  73. #75 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 25, 2010

    ..see now I always thought with Locutus of Gay it would be “lower your codpiece”.

    LOL!

    Comply.

  74. #77 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    BoSOM (hee hee) wrote:

    …personally I’m kind of hoping he looks like George Clooney.

    Hmm, in the recent doppleganger week on Facebook I had to choose between the two celebrities I’d been compared to by others – Rupert Grint (who plays Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter series) or Christopher Walken.

    Make of that what you will…

  75. #78 windy
    February 25, 2010

    Happy Threadmas!

    What goes better with the holiday: rosé, or Muscat?

    (had a bout of spontaneity in the liquor store. I guess it could have been worse.)

  76. #79 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    Knockgoats, from the previous thread:

    Walton can talk about the “invisible hand of the market”, and still claim his beliefs are not magical!

    *chortle*

    Don’t be absurd. It’s a very well-established economic phenomenon. You can choose to reject it, if you have a rational basis for doing so, but dismissing it as “magical” is just ridiculous. As Adam Smith put it:

    It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.

    All it means is that we derive benefits from others acting in their own self-interest. It’s common sense: if A produces something that B wants, and B produces something that A wants, then, by exchanging, they both benefit. Both are acting in their own self-interest, but the transaction is good for everyone. Where’s the “magical thinking” in that?

  77. #80 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    “An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals.”

    This is reassuring. Most of the time, I struggle to get out of bed before about 10 am – though this morning, I forced myself to get up at 7.30, on the basis that I have finals in a couple of months and need to actually do some work.

  78. #81 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    And I say good night with one of the most creepy songs I know of. At least now I know that no one can cut my telephone wire.

  79. #82 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Happy Threadmas !!

    the endless thread apparently turns one year old today

    You know, that really is scary !! And I guess we should thank PZ for allowing his commenters to have their own “forum” here for so long, I dont take this for granted at all.

    Always trust Australians to be wary of changing times and social progress :

    Senate votes down same-sex marriage bill

    personally I’m kind of hoping he looks like George Clooney

    He better, got to have some glamour at your side !!

  80. #83 John Morales
    February 25, 2010

    Lynna,

    It would be kinda like the Plaster Casters, only for boobs.

    Ah yes.

  81. #84 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I knew Cynthia PlasterCaster. I have seen the infamous Jimi Hendrix cast. Though my favorite is Ronnie Barnett of The Muffs. His erection went away while he was “encased” and the cast was a corkscrew. Also, in the nineties, Cynthia did start taking breast casts.

  82. #85 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    “An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals.”

    I’ve always been nocturnal. I ran on very little sleep when I was a kid, never could get to sleep when I was supposed to do so. It’s a good thing to be self-employed, I usually sleep from about 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.

  83. #86 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Wowbagger

    I’d been compared to by others – Rupert Grint (who plays Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter series) or Christopher Walken

    .. swoon, Christopher Walken. The thinking woman’s sex symbol. You look like him and I unequivocally, absolutely, unconditionally offer here, and now, to have your babies.

  84. #87 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Strange Gods @ 617 Shatner-thread,

    just seen this now.My advice would be to get her onto the radar of a community mental health team asap, or whatever is appropriate in your area, this is a worrisome situation that might require this lady’s few friends to become proactive to save her. She has a plan which she expressed to you.People need to keep an eye on her 24/7, and she seems to need treatment,this might even have to be involuntary to begin with.
    My 2 cents from the other side of the globe, good luck mate.

  85. #88 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Sorry, (No Longer A) Bride, but when I think of Walken, I think of that watch.

  86. #89 negentropyeater
    February 25, 2010

    Walton,

    Where’s the “magical thinking” in that?

    The magical thinking is to believe that it applies to the real world, where there are constraints on the availability of critical resources. If both A and B strive to maximize their self-interest, without regard to the interest of the community (A+B), they’ll consume the limited resources much faster than is permitted (see prisonner’s dilemma for a theoretical approach).

    And if they are allowed to consume from credit (like in the real world nowadays), it gets even worse and even faster into a dead end.

    That’s the real problem in the real world, you know, on earth nowadays. It’s trivial, but apparently adepts of Adam Smith don’t get it.

  87. #90 boygenius
    February 25, 2010

    Hey, there, BoS. Wowbagger here. I’m posting under a different nym to keep things discreet.

    If you’re still up for that baby thing, maybe we could meet somewhere?

  88. #91 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    It’s a good thing to be self-employed, I usually sleep from about 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.

    and here I thought I was the biggest night-owl on pharyngula, but you go to sleep about 4-5 hours later than I do. self-employment is a life-saver for us nightowls, isn’t it.

    I used to have your sleeping schedule when working closing-shift at starbucks in seattle: i’d get home around 1am, spend all night online, go to sleep at sunrise, and then get up around 2pm to get ready for work again.

  89. #92 negentropyeater
    February 25, 2010

    Walton,

    do yourself a favour (I mean it from the bottom of my heart, because you are, I think, a really good guy) : read COLLAPSE by Jared Diamond.

    It’s easy to read and very passioning book, I’m sure you’ll like it.

    “Essential reading…. Collapse shows that resilient societies are nimble ones, capable of long-term planning and of abandoning deeply entrenched but ultimately destructive core values and beliefs.” - Nature

  90. #93 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Jadehawk, OM @ 91:

    self-employment is a life-saver for us nightowls, isn’t it.

    Yes, it is. The few times I’ve had to work for someone else, it was always day shift. Ugh. Made me incredibly cranky. Most people don’t get nocturnal types; there’s still a lot of bias.

  91. #94 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 25, 2010

    I get you Caine. I’m nocturnal all the way.

  92. #95 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Most people don’t get nocturnal types; there’s still a lot of bias.

    definitely. not too long ago there was a thread on pandagon where people who didn’t get up in the early morning on weekends were declared non-adults. grr.

  93. #96 Feynmaniac
    February 25, 2010

    Most people don’t get nocturnal types; there’s still a lot of bias.

    QFT (at 4:30 in the morning).

  94. #97 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Josh, Official SpokesGay @ 94:

    I get you Caine. I’m nocturnal all the way.

    Ooh, baby. ;) It’s good to know. When you’re stuck in a world of day people, it can get you down.

    Jadehawk, OM @ 95:

    not too long ago there was a thread on pandagon where people who didn’t get up in the early morning on weekends were declared non-adults. grr.

    *Stares in disbelief* That’s past fucking rude. I’ll admit, I have a tendency to think of morning people as a bit on the obnoxious side, but I generally keep that to myself. Besides, anyone, nocturnal or not, should feel free to do whatever the hell they want on the weekend.

  95. #98 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Feynmaniac @ 96:

    QFT (at 4:30 in the morning).

    Heh. 3:37 in the morning here.

  96. #99 Shplane
    February 25, 2010

    I am far more likely to be asleep during the day than at night.

  97. #100 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Not drinking alcohol will do this morning thing to me, up at 7 bright as a button, and then like, WTF am I going to do now, when by 930 you have already jogged, showered, done your shopping, read the paper and done the washing…..
    Do that for 3 days in a row and you’re positively exhausted !

    I’d rather drag my sad self out of bed at 1130 on days off, slump into the computer chair for 2 hours while rehydrating and reading this blog….:-)

  98. #101 boygenius
    February 25, 2010

    Nightowls, unite! It’s us against the dayists. They think they’re soo superior with their paying jobs and such. We’re people too, you know.

    /there’s nothing I hate more than a person who is chipper in the morning.

  99. #102 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    I have ALWAYS done my best work at night ( academically wise). I don’t think there’s a thing/paper/assignment I’ve ever, in my 20 odd years of tertiary study, not started and completed in the hours between 11 pm and 5 am. I love the quiet, the solitude and the peace ( not to mention the acceptable hours of alcohol consumption).

    Altough I now have a day job I’m still quite able, comfortable (and normally do) live on 3-4 hours a night sleep, generally between 2 and 5 ish. Hasn’t killed me yet.

  100. #103 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Rorschach @ 100:

    WTF am I going to do now

    In any season other than winter, I enjoy being out at sunrise with my camera. No matter if I have the best intentions in the universe, I can’t make myself go to sleep at an appropriate hour in order to get up. Being a nocturnal critter, I’m already awake before sunrise and can spend hours in photographic pursuit, then come home and happily hit the hay. It just works better all the way around for me. We all have to listen to our clock.

  101. #104 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I have ALWAYS done my best work at night ( academically wise). I don’t think there’s a thing/paper/assignment I’ve ever, in my 20 odd years of tertiary study, not started and completed in the hours between 11 pm and 5 am. I love the quiet, the solitude and the peace ( not to mention the acceptable hours of alcohol consumption).

    this seems appropriate

  102. #105 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    I hate mronings. With iron willpower, I forced myself to get out of bed at 7.30 am. It’s now nearly 10 am and I have achieved practically nothing. I might as well have stayed in bed. :-(

  103. #106 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    boygenius @ 101:

    It’s us against the dayists. They think they’re soo superior with their paying jobs and such.

    My husband’s nocturnal too (good thing, otherwise I would have had to kill him) and he’s recently had to do the job hunt biz after 19 years. He found a job, but it is 1.5 hours away. He told them straight out, I can’t work days. They offered him 4th shift (weekend nights) and he was delighted. Even so, they kept offering dayshift like it was a special prize.

  104. #107 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    With iron willpower, I forced myself to get out of bed at 7.30 am.

    oh eww, why?! did you have to be somewhere that early? because if not, there’s no point in getting up early. do whatever you were planning on doing when you’re actually functional.

  105. #108 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    It’s not so much mornings I hate, it’s going to bed early. I almost never go to bed before 1 or 2 am (apparently a huge fucking problem with my ex) but I generally rise at 5 because of the kids.

    .. then again I also like to eat at what I consider normal hours ie dinner about 8 and it used to drive me insane that my ex wanted to eat at 6 and go to bed at 8.

  106. #109 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Walton @ 105:

    With iron willpower, I forced myself to get out of bed at 7.30 am. It’s now nearly 10 am and I have achieved practically nothing.

    Urgh. If you’re not ready to function at that hour, yeah, you should have stayed in bed. Better to get up at an hour when you know you’ll be functional and productive.

  107. #110 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    oh yeah. the boyfriend is a nightowl, too. just applied for a job at the truck stop restaurant for the evening and graveyard shifts. the graveyard shift pays extra, so that’s an added bonus :-)

  108. #111 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Having said all that, if I had a nanny to mind the kids and a hot bod to share my bed I’d friggin stay there until lunchtime.( Angelina and Brad have my life-bastards)

  109. #112 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Bride of Shrek OM @ 108:

    it used to drive me insane that my ex wanted to eat at 6 and go to bed at 8.

    8!? Bed at 8? Holy, I just don’t grok that. I start doing my photo editing about that time; I don’t get into doing painting until midnight or so.

  110. #113 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    …but I generally rise at 5 because of the kids…

    like I needed another reason not to breed… :-p

  111. #114 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    I almost never go to bed before 1 or 2 am (apparently a huge fucking problem with my ex)

    *Coughing fit out of nowhere*

    It’s not so much mornings I hate, it’s going to bed early.

    Oh, yes that is so true !I hate it when I can’t stay up because of early start the next day, and unfortunately I don’t function too well if I don’t get my 8 hours beauty sleep.
    Well, thank dog I can sleep in tomorrow…:-)

    *wink with 300 year old giant tree*

  112. #115 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Caine @ #112

    Seriously. Bed at 8. He used to constantly give me shit that I was the weird one for not doing that. That’s half an hour after my 5, 4 & 3 year olds bed times.

    Can you the feeling there’s a reason he’s an ex?

  113. #116 boygenius
    February 25, 2010

    I’m lucky that my neighbors are far enough away that they can’t hear my power tools, etc. in the middle of the night. I have my most productive hours out in the shop in the middle of the night. Just me and NPR. And sawdust.

  114. #117 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Bride of Shrek OM @ 115:

    Can you the feeling there’s a reason he’s an ex?

    Oh yes. Yes, I can. I can’t even say just how hostile that would make me.

  115. #118 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    oh eww, why?! did you have to be somewhere that early? because if not, there’s no point in getting up early. do whatever you were planning on doing when you’re actually functional.

    I don’t have anywhere I have to go today, except a lecture at 3pm, but I thought I should get up early and study, as I didn’t do any work yesterday, and finals are drawing ever closer.

    (By way of background: my whole degree is assessed at the end. This summer, I have nine three-hour exams over the period of a couple of weeks, and this accounts for my entire degree: no coursework and no modular exams, just the final exams. So I have a good reason to be stressed, even though they’re a couple of months away.)

  116. #119 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Yes well Rorschach

    Some of us don’t have to do night shift anymore.

    I fondly remember the days of the old 8-6 shift four nights in a row then on the fifth day having to back up (fuck with you body clock) to a 10-8 session after a whopping 2 hour sleep. Fortunately, after my time in the wards, I mostly worked in aged care homes so you could generally find a quiet corner in the dementia ward to catch an hour or so (bliss ****).

    Having said that we were gernally short of staff so I routinely pulled a double from 8pm until 4 pm the next day. It was worth the extra money but I always wonder how many med rounds I may have fucked up!

  117. #120 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    Better to get up at an hour when you know you’ll be functional and productive.

    I’m very rarely functional and productive. This is the major problem with my life.

  118. #121 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I don’t have anywhere I have to go today, except a lecture at 3pm, but I thought I should get up early and study, as I didn’t do any work yesterday, and finals are drawing ever closer.

    so, again, why don’t you study when you’re actually functional? you do yourself and your studies no favors by being awake when your brain wants to sleep. just don’t waste so many of your productive hours on us and other distractions.

  119. #122 JeffreyD
    February 25, 2010

    I have not posted much lately, occupied with a few other issues, but in playing catch-up Strange Gods” post about a potentially suicidal friend in Thread Shatner caught my eye.

    I am far from an expert on suicide, but do have some experience. I would suggest moving quickly to seek help, but do not assume you can ease off once she is seeing someone. In my personal case everyone relaxed a bit when she went into therapy only to have her kill herself soon after. Therapy had seemed to work, she was more stable, happier. In some way the therapy may have contributed, i.e., the realization that her disorder was forever and might as well end it. Not knocking the therapist, he is in fact a friend of my shrink, and I think did everything he could. It was very hard to accept that there just may not have been a way to stop her from killing herself short of a 24 hour a day armed guard. What I took from this, and am making a hash of trying to say, is when/if your friend starts to act “better” you unfortunately cannot relax too much. Maybe after a few months of being better, but not at first.

    Other thing, which you are doing right, is to keep contact with her. Two-four AM is a bad time to be alone. After my love’s suicide I was closest to putting a gun in my mouth or playing razor blade roulette in those small hours before the dawn.

    Gads, just reviewed this badly written mess, but will let it stand. Still hard to write about these things and seem to make sense. Oh well, because I can, a favourite video below.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zJdbpzfJMs or the live version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f837T8x0rUo

    Ciao y’all

  120. #123 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    just don’t waste so many of your productive hours on us and other distractions.

    Uhm, this is well said.I have never failed a single exam in my life, and I think it is because I can focus when I have to, you just have to get your mind set on this one goal Walton, in this case your 2 weeks of exams, this blog and the United Kingdom will still be here after your exams, so be a bit more focused, set yourself goals in terms of how much stuff you want to study every day leading up to the exams, and only when you have done that, think about distractions.
    Thgen come back and boast and drink Port, and realise that your life until then will probably suck.But it will feel good after !!

  121. #124 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Walton

    I don’t want to give you shit. But the above mentioned shift work hours I was complaining about was when I was a nurse.

    Prior to that I had been a university lecturer in climatology but I became a nurse for one reason, because I could do night shift and earn money while I could attend uni during the day.
    If I can work night shifts and still shift my carcass to attend five years worth of law lectures then you can get your arse out of bed to attend one 3 pm lecture.

    ..to add to my apparently self-proclaimed martyrhood can I can just add I did my finals 1 week and 2 days after my last baby was born (with also a 2 year old and a 13 month old). 8 * 4 hour exams and I wasn’t allowed to fucking leave to breastfeed my newborn. Years later and I’m still bitter.

  122. #125 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Seriously Walton

    Get your arse into study, if you need to leave Pharyngula for a while, whatever.

    Your studies are way more important and we’ll all still be here when you get back and you’ve finished.

    Then I can give you the shit you deserve as newbie lawyer and I can get all senior counsel on your butt.

  123. #126 Agi Hammerthief
    February 25, 2010

    would this be a good place to discuss the demise of the Richard Dawkins . net forum and where to hang out next?

  124. #127 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    would this be a good place to discuss the demise of the Richard Dawkins . net forum and where to hang out next?

    No.
    Try here.

  125. #128 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Agi Hammerthief @ 126:

    There’s a thread going about the event: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/i_so_do_not_want_to_get_sucked.php#comments

    That said, this is an open thread. Discuss anything you like.

  126. #129 badgersdaughter
    February 25, 2010

    5:15 on a Texas morning, the first ray of dawn peeps around the corner of the door, holding a cup of coffee and wearing a bright smile…

    GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!

    [runs. fast.]

  127. #130 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Badgersdaughter @ 129

    Morning bitch, morning bitch!!!!

  128. #131 JeffreyD
    February 25, 2010

    Gads, is it morning? How long have I been up? (flips though the litter looking for spoon, instant coffee crystals, lighter, and syringe) Ahh, time for coffee.

    Credo elvem etiam vivere

  129. #132 Agi Hammerthief
    February 25, 2010

    @ 127 & 128

    thanks

    I go on vacation for a few days and see what happuns.

  130. #133 badgersdaughter
    February 25, 2010

    Hey, it’s 11:30 in Aberdeen. My boss is about to go to lunch.

  131. #134 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Good morning, all! May the Threadmas hangovers not impede you too much this fine day.

    This is old now, but:

    re Editing your comments: It should be allowed, but only if a history of the edits is publicly available. As much as I hate the idea of people seeing the mistakes I’ve fixed, I’d rather not have some troll get away with changing its original post and then accuse people of misquoting it.

    Friendly Atheist has a kickass editing function that gives you a 5 minute countdown for editing after you submit. It’s enough time to catch typos and dead links, but then that’s it and you can’t go back after a dozen people tear what you’ve said apart (not that that happens there). I like that a lot.

  132. #135 Cath the Canberra Cook
    February 25, 2010

    Thanks for being understanding Wowbagger. I think I’ll decline to embarrass myself any further. After all, I hope to meet some of you in a couple of weeks, and not have to hide in shame. I have bad name/face recognition. I’m not entirely face-blind, but I do occasionally wonder if I am going to recognise my actual family members, if I haven’t seen them in a year. So far, so good though.

  133. #136 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Friendly Atheist has a kickass editing function that gives you a 5 minute countdown …

    It’s like preview, except it malfunctions on older hardware. It’s noticeably slower than preview. Preview gives you unlimited time to re-write your post. The edit function at Friendly Atheist doesn’t. It’s inferior to what scienceblogs already has.

  134. #137 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    BoSOM wrote:

    .. swoon, Christopher Walken. The thinking woman’s sex symbol. You look like him and I unequivocally, absolutely, unconditionally offer here, and now, to have your babies.

    Hmm, I guess I’d have to say that it’s only that I look more like him than I do any other celebrity, so it’s kind of debatable – though it won’t be long ’til you’ll be able to judge for yourself; only two weeks to go before the GAC!

    With that in mind I hope the recent RDNet kerfuffle doesn’t ruin the mood for all the Aussie RDNet people; I know there’s a bunch of them going.

  135. #138 windy
    February 25, 2010

    Ha! Threadmas night is still young.

    …but old enough for me to try to email someone about doing “mating experiments” and translate that into the equivalent of “mating attempts”. pffft.

  136. #139 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    You know … I still haven’t seen Watchman.

    But I haven’t seen very movies lately.

    The last movie I watched was Red Cliff.

    The last American movie I watched was…

    Hm…

    Uh…

    Shit.

    Batman Begins? It’s the last I can remember at the moment, and my husband had to remind me about it a few weeks ago. Which is weird, because I usually can’t forget spending 90+ minutes drooling over Christian Bale.

  137. #140 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 25, 2010

    I’m all against an editing function. If someone says something stupid, I don’t want to give them the option to change it after being called out on it.

    Plus you guys would all miss out on my typos.

    Well, not really.

  138. #141 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Talk about Tenure !

  139. #142 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    It’s contagious, Rev. I now make them all the time, when I used to be a real nitpicker about it.

    I guess I have only so many things I can work myself up about, and most of them are a lot more important than typos and other assorted grammar/spelling/punctuation goofs. I’ll only speak up about one if it confuses things too much.

  140. #143 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Happy Threadmas!

    What goes better with the holiday: rosé, or Muscat?

    In belated honor of this momentous occasion, I offer something from my personal wine cellar.

  141. #144 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Hm. Could have been a good idea, but the trailer isn’t very inspiring. With the very first word they use improper construction that no one, much less a real English professor, would ever use (“Myself and the rest of the female faculty”??), there’s a really skeevy bit about how ha ha, it’s so funny to invade a woman’s privacy by spying on her while she’s changing clothes, the protagonist uses that stupid saying “remember, you’re the smartest person in the room” (which is usually never true, more knowledge =/= smarter)… it’s got all the people/plot theme to make a good movie, but I fear that it might not be one.

  142. #145 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    In belated honor of this momentous occasion, I offer something from my personal wine cellar.

    You should have put it in expensive-looking bottles. Then we would have enjoyed the wine much more.

  143. #146 MAJeff, OM
    February 25, 2010

    4. We get an embossing via orgy, or is that an embossed orgy? Or is it only the female OMs that participate in embossure?

    Definitely only the females.

    *sigh* I miss orgies. *sigh*

  144. #147 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Hm. Could have been a good idea, but the trailer isn’t very inspiring.

    Ah well, I just watched the whole thing and found it to be entertaining.But then, I tear up quickly these days anyway…:-)

    Still haven’t gotten that damn Django music out of my head that David posted the other day, damn him.(*for you cannot spend your life regretting*)

  145. #148 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    You should have put it in expensive-looking bottles.

    You shouldn’t think I’d let you peasants at the good stuff.

    Well, possibly Walton, who dines with the occasional viscount and so must have a decent palate.

  146. #149 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010
  147. #150 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Aquaria | February 25, 2010 7:28 AM:

    You know … I still haven’t seen Watchman.

    But I haven’t seen very movies lately.

    I see about 2 movies a year. I don’t find movies interesting enough to seek them out on my own. I usually just see the movies that friends show at their houses when I visit. Usually these are mediocre SF or comics flicks, like Hulk. And one weekend they picked The Core, easily the worst movie I have ever seen. Once I talked them into picking one of the few movies I really liked. 2001. They hated it.

    Most movies, I have real trouble paying attention to for more than about 15-20 minutes at a time. (Longer with science documentaries, provided they’re reasonably well-made.) The few times I’ve watched a movie on my own, I’ve found I pause it about once every 15 minutes or so, and take about a 15 minute break. When I’m at a friend’s place, however, I’ll get out a book I’m reading, or get up and walk around for bit, or I’ll go to sleep.

  148. #151 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    The few times I’ve watched a movie on my own, I’ve found I pause it about once every 15 minutes or so, and take about a 15 minute break.

    And people wonder where attention deficit disorders come from…..
    Seriously, I blame it all on television advertising and MTV.
    :P

  149. #152 Paul W.
    February 25, 2010

    Rev. BDC:

    I’m all against an editing function. If someone says something stupid, I don’t want to give them the option to change it after being called out on it.

    I like the way it works at Cosmic Variance. You can edit your post for 15 minutes, and then it’s locked.

    That gives you a chance to realize you fucked up, and fix it, before most people see it.

    (Of course, in this thread, that may not be true, with people hitting refresh every few minutes to use the thing like a chat room… but you could set the timeout to 5 minutes and I think it would be a win. Even that would be enough to notice and fix most blockquote fails.)

    Of course, with such a system it’s nice to have a social norm that if you edit a post substantively, you say so.

  150. #153 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    There are just too many tropes in the trailer for Tenure that bother me, especially since a trailer is supposed to be the cool thing that shows you all the best parts and makes you really really want to see it. That they had a howler like “Myself and the rest of the female faculty would like…” AND led with it? That doesn’t offer much confidence that they had any knowledge of or consultation on the script from academicians, and although that wouldn’t matter in most movies, in one that is centered around the lives of academics it’s a bit troubling. And then there’s the whole “bad researcher but the students love him” trope – that’s great, but sometimes the students love faculty because they’re easy graders, not because they’re actually good teachers. If being a good teacher is so important to a person, they can go be John Keating at a smaller less prestigious school where that’s valued – it’s not the small man against the system, it’s a plumber trying to get sympathy that he can’t do wiring correctly but should keep his job as an electrician anyway. Not that he probably is a good teacher, giving advice like “you’re the smartest person in the room” that is designed to create arrogant asshole teachers.

    Then just from a feminist perspective, the whole thing is a big troubling. There’s the part with the “isn’t it funny that this lout is watching her change clothes” (which was considered enough of a highlight to make the trailer?). There’s a kind of unsettling subtext with the way they’re stalking and harassing her, which is exacerbated by how she’s made to look sort of tiny and twee and vulnerable looking the whole time (haircut, costume, demeanor). The trailer doesn’t pass the Bechdel test, which isn’t surprising, but it doesn’t give any hint that anything in the rest of the movie would either.

    I don’t know why I’m being so picky – I guess because I got so excited by the title that it would be a fun movie about the kinds of things I deal with in my line of work, but then it managed to be so disappointing in just two minutes.

  151. #154 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Rorschach | February 25, 2010 8:13 AM:

    And people wonder where attention deficit disorders come from…..
    Seriously, I blame it all on television advertising and MTV.

    Well – I can’t be bothered to look them up now, but I’m nearly certain I’ve read a few papers that profess to show a weak correlation between TV watched during youth, and ADD. However I can’t blame TV for my own issues. I grew up with no TV at home until I was 15. Not having a lot of friends, I didn’t watch much TV at friends’ houses either. I’ve never owned a TV myself.

  152. #155 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    Most people don’t get nocturnal types; there’s still a lot of bias.
    definitely. not too long ago there was a thread on pandagon where people who didn’t get up in the early morning on weekends were declared non-adults. grr.

    I’m remembering why I never liked pandagon. Bunch of smug little wankers.

    Besides the fact that it’s none of their fucking business what hours anyone keeps, that’s a really stupid and ignorant thing to say when there are millions of people in America who work night shifts–and night shifts on weekends to boot.

  153. #156 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    but I’m nearly certain I’ve read a few papers that profess to show a weak correlation between TV watched during youth, and ADD

    There is one Study I know of that has shown a correlation between toddlers watching Disney vids and delay in language development.

    Disney didnt like it a lot

  154. #157 triskelethecat
    February 25, 2010

    As former night-owl now by force day-person, I miss the days when I could stay up till 2-3 am, sleep till 10-12, go to work…repeat. Since I left nursing and joined corporate America I now routinely have to be up at 5 am so I am in bed by 10 pm or so. My body still prefers to be up much later, but I can’t get up at 5 am and function unless I am in bed earlier. I couldn’t get up at 5 am with as little sleep as BOS and function. Boo.

    @BOS: I know what you mean about spouse times. The world comes to an end at my house if dinner hasn’t happened by 6:30pm at the latest. He needs less sleep than I do, though, so he could concievably stay up till 11pm or so and still get up and function(also at 5 am…he works days in a hospital…but he likes getting up early).

    Happy Threadiversay. Oh, and Rev BDC: recently at the store I found THICK cut bacon, smithfield smoked. Haven’t had time to cook it yet but it’s on the agenda.

  155. #158 AJ Milne
    February 25, 2010

    (Laughing hard at #129/130…)

    … and further to discussions of marital combinations of larks and owls, if you are currently engaged, and you find yourself realizing this may be an issue, please check this out with your spouse to be, explain things to ‘em, figure out just how big a pain it’s gonna be, etc.

    See, I’m a fairly extreme owl. Very productive, if I do say so myself, in my own cycle, but getting me going in the morning with any speed basically requires yer standard shot o’ straight adrenaline through the breastbone…

    My spouse, other way ’round. We are slowly reaching some sorta peace over this, and she is slowly grasping that yes, I really do need to prop my head up a few minutes, stare accusingly at the daylight before being any use whatsoever getting the kids going in the morning. I have found it helps a bit to remind her that in ten years of marriage she has yet had to deal with a single sheet or child change or vomit bucket duty or nightmare soothing thing after 8 pm, as this has always been entirely my domain. She’s comatose by then, anyway.

    But it’s been a long road to that relative peace. Different metabolic clocks can build up to serious friction. Just sayin’.

  156. #159 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Yesterday I had to go to New Haven for jury selection for a federal court case (the James Botti bribery case). There were 112 people called for the jury, I was juror #108, and they started with juror #1. At 3:20, after juror #54 was interviewed, they let jurors #72 and higher go.

    I got a couple of hundred pages read in a book and had lunch with the Sewage Assessor for the town of Milford. She was an absolutely fascinating woman who explained how to assess sewage (no, I’m not being facetious, I found what she did to be interesting).

  157. #160 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    Most movies, I have real trouble paying attention to for more than about 15-20 minutes at a time. (Longer with science documentaries, provided they’re reasonably well-made.)

    I can watch them all the way through if they don’t bore me, or worse, repulse me. American movies have a bad habit of doing one or both of those things. Most of the time, I feel like I’m watching a bag of stale cliches rot before my eye.

  158. #161 Katrina
    February 25, 2010

    AJ:

    Your domestic situation sounds much like ours. After nearly twenty years and countless time zones, there has been many a time when my husband was getting up as I was going to bed. Now, with three kids during the school year, everyone – including my husband – is asleep by 9 pm. I try to stay on their schedule, because I need that morning time to get up enough momentum to face the day. My husband has long ago accustomed himself to this, and often brings me a cup of espresso before I’m either fully out of bed or out of my wake-up shower.

    The weekends are a different story, of course. ^.^

  159. #162 MrFire
    February 25, 2010

    Aquaria, if you made it through Batman Begins, you really have to see The Dark Knight. It’s not free of cliches, but it has a good deal less than the average Hollywood blockbuster.

    Plus there is a nice, lingering shot of a shirtless, bruised, battered Christian Bale tending his wounds…and he wants you to kiss them better!

  160. #163 MrFire
    February 25, 2010

    Aquaria,

    How about I just cut to the chase and give you the shirtless Christian Bale scene instead?

    Nowhere near as lingering as I had thought, actually. Wonder what that says about me.

  161. #164 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    The Redhead is a night owl, often going to bed about the time I am getting up. When we were first married, she had this idea she had to get up and fix me breakfast. She hated that, and kept carping about my schedule. Eventually I showed her I didn’t need her for my breakfast, and she didn’t have to go to bed the same time I did if it made her unhappy.

  162. #165 Dust
    February 25, 2010

    JeffreyD @ 122, thanks for telling your story.

    In my situation, the family member apparantly had long standing, possoble bi-polar with devestating depressions and long term suicide ideation. This was known only to the spouse, not even the grown children knew.

    The suicide was long planned and caught everyone by total suprise except the spouse. Spouse just didn’t recognize how deep and serious the final depression was….

    Since then I’ve learned to not take suicidal talk as just self pity fluff…but what to do about it or how to intervene, ah, that is the question. But I now think, intervene we must.

  163. #166 Dust
    February 25, 2010

    Hey Walton,

    When in my last year at Uni my mottoo was, “Must get my priorities right.” Helped me put my school work first and other things after. It really helped. I owned a horse at the time and put him in a good stabling situation so he would be fine while I gave him less attention. My horse at the time could be a major time sink.

    In my last semester, my father went into his final illness and died about halfway through. But my little ‘must prioritize’ motto really helped with that situation too.

    Now that I’m back in the job hunt, reviving that motto might be a good thing! :-P

  164. #167 SC OM
    February 25, 2010

    strange gods,

    It might not be a bad idea to call them for some advice:

    http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/SuicideWarningSigns.aspx

    Looks like they also have a forum.

    (I don’t know anything about the organization, or even if it’s a Sc**ntology front. Not that I think it is – I’m just paranoid after learning that many drug/alcohol help sites are.)

  165. #168 davem
    February 25, 2010

    Janine:

    I deliver the gift of music. Here is some Richard Thompson.
    Vincent Black Lightning 1952

    The last time I played that, my MP3 player was on random play, and we came to the line ‘to Box Hill we did ride’ just as I passed Box Hill. Coincidence? I think not. Shame that it was pissing down at the time, and the usual 2 or 300 bikes were nowhere to be seen. RT’s best stuff is on the CD ‘Action packed – best of the Capitol Years’. 19 tracks, and everyone a classic.

  166. #169 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    @68

    Perfection is overrated.

    Except when you add to our perfection, Lynna. Lower your breast plate, and prepare to be assimilated. Your biological and sartorial distinctiveness will be added to our own.
    Comply.
    /Locutus of Gay

    For some reason I don’t feel quite like myself today … and my hair is styled, there may even be pomade.

  167. #170 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    Mr. Fire:

    That’ wasn’t long enough at all, after seeing him run around naked in American Psycho. I wish there could have been another reason than being a serial killer for him to do that in a movie, but I’ll take what I can get.

  168. #171 shonny
    February 25, 2010

    Views on Miracle Mineral Supplement where the active ingredient is an industrial bleaching agent, NaClO2, used to ‘cleanse’ your (no fucking way mine) interior?
    Anyone who knows about this and the double-strength fuckwit called Jim Humble?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxe1VUjdQh0

  169. #172 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    shirtless, bruised, battered Christian Bale tending his wounds…and he wants you to kiss them better!

    If Christian Bale wants me to kiss something and make it better, it’s gonna have to be somewhere lower than his chest. ;)

  170. #173 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    @83, John M., from your second link:

    “Helen appeared with her attendants, looking as radiant as Phoebe among the stars…. The veil which covered her bosom was lifted and one of the two globes was revealed, pink as the dawn, white as the snows of Mount Rhodopus, smooth as the goat’s milk of Arcadia…. With wax provided by the golden daughters of Hymettus, the shepherd Paris … took the cast of the breast, which looked like a luscious fruit on the point of falling into a gardener’s hand. When Paris had removed the wax cast, the attendants hastened to replace the veil over Helen’s gorgeous breast, but not before her admirers had glimpsed a teat whose freshness was as tempting as a strawberry.”

    Janine, I am sooo envious of your being acquainted with a real Plaster Caster. The corkscrew is a telling detail. This is why we need to archive the endless thread. Otherwise, precious cultural information will be lost.

  171. #174 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    161 comments already? <facepalm>

    Nice video. Fits this depressing dark-gray rainy day perfectly.

    Going to see a therapist is a social interaction. People who dread social interactions will dread a therapist at least as much as any other sort of social interaction.

    I’m not sure about that.

    I have a question for all the OM members. Once you receive the honor, do you feel obligated to continue posting?

    I’d do it anyway :-)

    Specifically, I like that it doesn’t nest or hide replies the same way a traditional “threaded” discussion board would, forcing me to at least glance at the tangent discussions that are going on. I also like that it loads the entire thing into a single page, which, IMO, improves the flow and continuity. If I want to see whether someone has already said what I’m about to post in a thread, I just have to search the page for relevant terms. (This also keeps me from posting that often, since somebody has usually said what I’m going to say, more eloquently.)

    Repeated for truth.

    oh, and: “An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals.

    does that make me supersmart…? :-p

    You need something to make you??

    It’s a good thing to be self-employed, I usually sleep from about 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.

    Wow.

    i’d get home around 1am, spend all night online, go to sleep at sunrise, and then get up around 2pm to get ready for work again.

    Similar to what we did at the dig in Crayssac ? we gently hammered at the limestone in the evening and again at night till 4 am, got home, went to sleep at sunrise (6 am), and got up at 2 pm again.

    not too long ago there was a thread on pandagon where people who didn’t get up in the early morning on weekends were declared non-adults. grr.

    I have never felt adult, so this doesn’t touch me at all :o)

    this seems appropriate

    Oh yes. It’s scarily often that I get a sudden bout of productivity when I sit here in the lab at 9 pm and almost have to tear myself off at 10 (or 10:30 or 10:45 or 11:00 even), after having spent most of the afternoon being tired, reading Pharyngula, and the like?

    (Did send my grant proposal today and even did some bureaucracy, though.)

    With iron willpower, I forced myself to get out of bed at 7.30 am. It’s now nearly 10 am and I have achieved practically nothing. I might as well have stayed in bed. :-(

    See comment 109. Forcing oneself to get out of bed after too little sleep never makes you awake and functional for the rest of the day.

    As I said a couple of subthreads ago? self-discipline is way overrated. I’m faring pretty well with hedonism so far.

    I almost never go to bed before 1 or 2 am [?] but I generally rise at 5 because of the kids.

    3 to 4 h of sleep per night? That doesn’t make you tired enough that you go to bed earlier automatically? ~:-|

    .. then again I also like to eat at what I consider normal hours ie dinner about 8 and it used to drive me insane that my ex wanted to eat at 6 and go to bed at 8.

    Go to bed at 8? Now that’s insane.

    like I needed another reason not to breed… :-p

    Oh, children are pretty different, and their inner clock doesn’t stay stable over years or sometimes even months (especially, of course, at the beginning). As long as you’re not alone with them?

    Oh, and, don’t have one child per year like BoSOM. The distances between my siblings and me are 3, 5, and 10 years? the 2 years of distance between the first two of them were a bit hard (though much of that was because both of them cried so much, for different reasons); I didn’t notice firsthand how the 3 years between my brother and me were; the 5 years between my sisters were deliberately planned and (so I hear) stemmed from the fact that I didn’t grow up faster and required too much attention. ? In contrast, the little sister was very easy to care for, hardly cried, was cute beyond all belief, and is still remarkably happy most of the time.

    Can you the feeling there’s a reason he’s an ex?

    Not that I knew the rest of the story or anything? but? I’m surprised you managed to put up with that for so long.

    I’m very rarely functional and productive. This is the major problem with my life.

    That’s a plain lie. If it were that bad, you wouldn’t? I mean, you’re studying law at Oxford, for crying out loud. How would you ever have got in there if you were “very rarely functional and productive”?!?

    When tired, sleep. When you sleep enough, you’ll be productive afterwards.

    Do you even know how many hours of sleep you need per night? (And by “need” I don’t mean “how few you can occasionally get by with and still not run into trees or doorposts too often”.)

    I have never failed a single exam in my life

    Are you a cuttlefish or something? Because you obviously aren’t human.

    (Either that, or they have very strange universities in Germany, in addition to you being one of those rare marvels that sail through school unscathed. In Germany, what do you do at a university when you get a mark that you find unjust or otherwise bizarre?)

    8 * 4 hour exams and I wasn’t allowed to fucking leave to breastfeed my newborn

    <headdesk>

    That’s cruel to both of you.

    Then I can give you the shit you deserve as newbie lawyer and I can get all senior counsel on your butt.

    :-D

    Looking forward to it ;-)

    Still haven’t gotten that damn Django music out of my head that David posted the other day, damn him.

    I didn’t post the music! I posted the film! :-) (Well, two scenes from it.)

    Also, it was last weekend? no, two weekends ago, I think.

    (*for you cannot spend your life regretting*)

    Heh. Django is more into troubleshooting.

    yer standard shot o’ straight adrenaline through the breastbone

    LOL!

    BTW, the sun has come out several times since I started writing this comment, and is now apparently here to stay? except it’ll set soon. :-)

  172. #175 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    NaClO2

    The stupid, it pretty literally burns. Even the French only use NaOCl* (eau de Javel) to wipe their floors and stuff, and elsewhere that’s used for hardcore applications like burning mold off walls. And then people are supposed to eat the one with the two oxygens**??? I smell a lawsuit.

    * Sodium hypochlorite.
    ** Sodium chlorite. Not a “thing I won’t work with”, but still.

  173. #176 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Davem, seeing that I bought every album RT made in the nineties; Rumour And Sigh, Mirror Blue, you? me?, us?,, and Mock Tudor, they were all on Capital, I did not buy Action Packed. I could not limit myself to only his nineties work. For a overview of his carreer, I would suggest RT: The Life And Music Of Richard Thompson, a five CD set of life takes; solo, with Linda, Fairport and his band from the mid sixties to about five years ago. Also, while, I have no need for it, I have most of his discography, I would send any interested newby to Walking On A Wire; Richard Thompson (1968-2009) for a comprehensive look at his studio career. I took a look at the four CD, seventy-one song, collection. Every song is a keeper.

  174. #177 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    “The Planned Parenthood office in Provo, Utah dispenses more ‘morning after’ pills than any other Planned Parenthood Office in the USA. We’ve got a real problem here and we need to take a hard look at this.”

    and

    At the end of the day, ID and AGW are two manifestations of the same cancer. ID is rooted in conservative politics. AGW is rooted in liberal politics. But, at their heart, both issues are assaults on science. Though both issues parrot the language and appearance of science, both issues constitute policy posing as science.

    The two quotes above are from Utah State Senator, Steve Urquhart. The first is from an interview aired on KSL, and the second is from his blog at http://www.steveu.com/blog.
    From the KSL story:

    Conservative Sen. Steve Urquhart of St. George is taking this bill on. One main reason: His own surprise at skyrocketing rates of sexually-transmitted diseases among Utah’s youth, especially because they are preventable.

    Utah could change its slogan to “Come to Utah, Chlamydia Capital of the Wild West”.

    Sen. Stephen Urquhart, R-St. George, is sponsoring a bill that would require schools to provide education on contraception beginning in the 11th grade, ending abstinence-only education in many school districts.
         That proposal is likely to draw opposition from the conservative Eagle Forum and United Families International, who fear it may promote promiscuity. The bill would still prohibit advocating sex outside of marriage. The bill is intended to combat unwanted pregnancies and the spread of chlamydia.

    The bill was defeated. But, finding an almost reasonable conservative voice in Utah politics gives me hope. Of course, the dude can’t recognize the anti-science aspect of ID without also bashing AGW. And even the bill that was defeated as being too liberal concerning sex education included provisions to encourage a focus on abstinence.

    Someone needs to start a multi-level marketing scheme selling Morning After pills in Utah.

  175. #178 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Oh, children are pretty different, and their inner clock doesn’t stay stable over years or sometimes even months (especially, of course, at the beginning). As long as you’re not alone with them?

    see, the primary reason I don’t and probably won’t ever have children is that I’m entirely unsuited to being a primary caretaker. So, before I can have kids, I need a wife. And since I’m neither a man nor a lesbian, such a creature might be a wee bit difficult to come by…

  176. #179 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    Tis @143:

    OMG Perfect! LOL As long as they’re not made from Concord grapes!

  177. #180 Alan B
    February 25, 2010

    I don’t know if this has been reported before but paleontologists at Brigham Young Uni have discoved the skulls from 4 sauropod dinosaurs. Skulls are amazingly rare because they had to be so thin and light so as to be capable of being held off the ground by long necked sauropods.

    Video, pictures and text here:

    http://news.byu.edu/archive10-feb-abydosaurus.aspx

    Any comments David M?

  178. #181 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    . We’ve got a real problem here and we need to take a hard look at this.”

    I think taking hard looks is getting these kids into trouble in the first place…

    Utah could change its slogan to “Come to Utah, Chlamydia Capital of the Wild West”.

    OMG

    These people really need to stop eating so much lime jello with carrots. It’s rotting their brains!

  179. #182 Sili
    February 25, 2010

    Threadiversary

    Splitter! There is no Threadiversary, only Threadmas!

    Death to the Poopyhead!

    Long live the Thread!

  180. #183 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 25, 2010

    Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM @60:
    Person at #53. That’s me, Ron Sullivan. It’s part of my campaign to become invisible at all wavelengths.

    Do you mean this? (Link to Beeswing tour page)
    Precisely.

    The last time I saw him live was in 2002.

    He gets better every year. Seize your next chance.

    Did a set at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass in Golden Gate Park a couple years ago wherein ” ’52 Vincent Black Lightning” coincided with a pair of redtailed hawks doing courtship dances over the stage. Well-balanced wonderfulness.

    Yeah, even under the conditions you are talking about, he is well worth it.

    Did I mention standing in line in the rain twice because the direx to pick up will-call tix weren’t clear? Also street-surfing on wet plastic bag. I’m getting old for that sport.

    And you’re right: absolutely worth it.

  181. #184 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Janine, I am sooo envious of your being acquainted with a real Plaster Caster. The corkscrew is a telling detail. This is why we need to archive the endless thread. Otherwise, precious cultural information will be lost.

    Lynna, Cynthia was the one who came up the concept and the only one who stayed with the project. Most of the others were to, ahem, prep the subjects. It started as a school project, for an art class she needed to make a cast of something hard. (Yes, when she said it, the word was in bold.) She used this as an excuse to meet guys in bands that she loved. It was also a gimmick that made her stand out from the other groupies. The guys in Paul Revere And The Raiders were the first.

    Since the eighties, she pretty much just did this for bands she loved, mostly indy band like The Mekons or Demolition Dollrods. In fact, I first met her at a Jon Langford (The Mekons) solo show. Here was a woman my mother’s age singing along to the show.

    Interesting person, I miss no longer seeing her.

  182. #185 MrFire
    February 25, 2010

    I wanted to give a special shout-out to the esteemed lurker known as Ken Ham.

    Dear Ken,

    I was churning random shit together in my head this morning, as I am wont to do, and while I pondered that the origins of this thread are now disappearing into the mists of time, I mused on how we as a species will someday do the same. A million years from now, our descendants – should they endure – may find themselves arguing over what really happened in the here and now. And then the thought occurred to me: A distant descendant of yours, if they think just like you do, might solemnly believe that you never existed!

    Imagine your scion, with starry-eyed certainty, building a museum dedicated to the veracity of their holy text (compiled long after we have gone, and which does not account for us). See him wave away the counterevidence, such as when your very own fossilized bones are excavated and examined by the hard-working scientists of that era. Finally, witness the interesting twist, where he does not realize that a worldwide flood brought about by an intelligent agent (hint: us) washed your remains into some geological stratum where they shouldn’t be – from which observation he prematurely concludes that you are a hoax!

    Thank you for allowing me to share these thoughts with you. I hope they brighten your day.

    Mr. Fire

  183. #186 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Ron Sullivan, I must have seen RT about ten times from the late eighties (When Clive Gregson and Christine Collister were part of the band.) through 2002. All were great but the best was an acoustic show at The Old Town in Chicago. It was just RT with Danny Thompson on the stand up bass. Lots of jokes about the rivalry between Fairport and Pentacle and I had front row seats. And anyone who been at a show at The Old Town can testify to what a great sound the place has.

  184. #187 Menyambal
    February 25, 2010

    Speaking o’ Threadmas, can we get, for the next War on Christmas ….

    Keep “mass” in Christmas. It’s a Catholic holy day. You Protestants bugger off.

  185. #188 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 25, 2010

    Ron Sullivan here. I keep forgetting I have to sign these things.

    Janine @186, I think the dream bill with RT on it was a few years back at a winery in Hopland, with David Grisman and Beausoleil.* We’re both trying to remember when we saw Danny T with him; Joe thinks it was at the Warfield. We generally drag ourselves out whenever he shows up around here except for those unfortunate times he plays the Fillmore because we’re too damned old to stand on tiptoe for three hours.

    Heard the Blind Boys of Alabama’s cover of “Dimming of the Day”? It sounds great of course but I think I kinda resent their turning it into some sort of devotional. Maybe I’m just touchy.

    *Kw*kking: When you look at the cover of Beausoleil’s Live from the Left Coast, the pale blob on the stage-left balcony is us. Also at the GAMH.

  186. #189 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Behold the Violent History of Saturn’s White Whale Moon

    Like the battered white whale Moby Dick taunting Captain Ahab, Saturn’s moon Prometheus surges toward the viewer in a 3-D image from NASA’s Cassini spacecraft. The image exposes the irregular shape and circular surface scars on Prometheus, pointing to a violent history. These craters are probably the remnants from impacts long ago.

  187. #190 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    I think I’d better get some sleep. I saw Lynna’s first sentence in 189 as Behold the Violent History of Santorun’s Pale Moon.

  188. #191 Dust
    February 25, 2010

    SC OM @167

    http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/SuicideWarningSigns.aspx

    Looks like they also have a forum. (I don’t know anything about the organization, or even if it’s a Sc**ntology front. Not that I think it is – I’m just paranoid after learning that many drug/alcohol help sites are.)

    A link for this was just sited on the website for my states office of suicide prevention, so then that increases the chance it’s legit. (one would think)

  189. #193 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Argh! Used <sup> instead of <sub> in comment 175! Now I gave it two charges but don’t tell if they’re + or ?!

    Anyway, the sun stayed out till sunset. It stayed cloudy, however, so the lower layer of clouds was dark bluish gray and the upper layer was pink?

    see, the primary reason I don’t and probably won’t ever have children is that I’m entirely unsuited to being a primary caretaker.

    Thought so. So let me slightly rephrase: as long as you’re not too alone with them?

    So, before I can have kids, I need a wife.

    And you’re sure you’re not a little bit sexist about this?? :^)

    Any comments David M?

    I still haven’t read the paper. What little I’ve read about it is of course impressive; Dan Chure in the video is (big surprise there) right when he says he can’t overemphasize how rare sauropod skulls are in the fossil record. Even isolated braincases or jaw fragments are very rare; as a result, we underestimate the weirdness and the diversity (?of weirdness).

    <Kw*k>I’ll not even restrain myself from saying I know Brooks B. Britt personally ? at the SVP meeting dinner 2 years ago, he ended up sitting next to me, said “Hi, I’m Brooks”, and we chatted a little.

    (Also at that table: a Japanese student with a document family history of samurai all the way down to the 8th or 9th century or something, and a few tales to tell. They still have the blade of the family sword, too.)</Kw*k>

    No such big bones in Poland so far; there, it ends at rhino- or hippo-size.

    From the article:

    ?Their heads are built lighter than mammal skulls because they sit way out at the end of very long necks,? said Brooks Britt, a paleontologist at Brigham Young University.

    Or perhaps the other way around ? sauropods didn’t chew, so the skulls could afford to be lightly built, which in turn made insanely long necks possible. The article hints at this later:

    ?They didn?t chew their food; they just grabbed it and swallowed it,? Britt said. ?The skulls are only one two-hundredth of total body volume and don?t have an elaborate chewing system.?

    The only problems with the article are in the last paragraph:

    The specific name mcintoshi honors the American paleontologist Jack McIntosh for his contributions to the study of sauropod dinosaurs. In 1975 McIntosh debunked the myth of Brontosaurus, exposing it as a mixed-up skeleton with an Apatosaurus body and a Camarasaurus skull.

    1) First things first ? Apatosaurus and Camarasaurus belong in italics, too !!
    2) John S. “Jack” McIntosh is a legendary figure; he did his paleontology on the side, in addition to his day-job as a Yale professor of high-energy physics!!! (I only read about this yesterday myself.)
    3) Brontosaurus was sunk into Apatosaurus by Elmer Riggs in 1903? in a paper that appeared in a journal that few people read. It was later than 1903 that the American Museum of Natural History put up its “Brontosaurus” skeleton and thus cemented the name in children’s books for the next decades. McIntosh was apparently the one (I’m not that deep into history of science) who found out in 1975 that that skeleton was a chimera, consisting mostly of Apatosaurus but with the head and tail end of a Camarasaurus on.

    McIntosh & Berman (1975) also found out that another skull that had been thought to belong to Brontosaurus since 1883 is from something else and suggested it could belong to Brachiosaurus ? the real one, not Giraffatitan which has supplied the largest mounted skeleton in the world to Berlin, more precisely the Humboldt-Museum für Naturkunde (des Leibniz-Instituts für? whatever? der Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin <pant> <pant>). The little drawing of that skull in the paper cited below looks a lot like those of Abydosaurus, though it’s part of a skeletal reconstruction, so it’s not detailed and may not be entirely reliable.

    Michael P. Taylor*: A re-evaluation of Brachiosaurus altithorax Riggs 1904 (Dinosauria, Sauropoda) and its generic separation from Giraffatitan brancai (Janensch 1914). Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 29(3), 787?806 (12 September 2009)

    * Not to be confused with Michael A. Taylor who works on plesiosaurs.

    Oh? McIntosh & Berman (1975) is a paper I haven’t read ? Mike Taylor cites it:

    John S. McIntosh & David S* Berman (1975): Description of the palate and lower jaw of the sauropod dinosaur Diplodocus (Reptilia: Saurischia) with remarks on the nature of the skull of Apatosaurus. Journal of [not only Vertebrate] Paleontology 49, 187?199.

    * That’s not a typo; the letter S is Berman’s entire middle name. Perhaps he’s named after Harry S Truman, whose parents couldn’t agree on which grandfather’s name (Solomon or? Shipp) to use.

    Thank you for allowing me to share these thoughts with you. I hope they brighten your day.

    They certainly brighten mine!!! Even though I don’t think Ham really lurks here.

  190. #194 Menyambal
    February 25, 2010

    I went looking for _Dimming_of_the_Day_, and nearly got my ears blasted off. I forgot I’ve been listening to The Trumpets of Jericho
    by E Nomine. It has snarling in German, chanting in Latin, trumpets and drums. It may be religious, but it sure isn’t church music.

  191. #195 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    What? WTF did I open a blockquote in front of the citation of McIntosh & Berman ’75?

    Speaking o’ Threadmas, can we get, for the next War on Christmas ….

    Win!!!

  192. #196 Alan B
    February 25, 2010

    Here is something totally different.

    I have collected bits of crinoids from the Silurian and the Carboniferous close (ish) to where I live. I have seen wonderful specimens in the Natural History Museum (S Kensington). I have studied pictures in books and on the Internet.

    I have always understood that they had a cup made up of plates to which were attached feeder “arms”. The cup was supported on a long stem which was made up of circular or pentagonal discs. As a result, the stems were flexible and waved in the currents. Shortly after death the stem broke down to produce individual segments. I have a number of samples of crinoid “gravel” which is made up of individual segments cemented in a matrix of lime mud. Finally, the stem was firmly attached to the bottom by a holdfast so the whole thing waved about in the bottom currents.

    Look for crinoids in Google Images and the first page will show modern crinoids from the sea bottom (benthic) as well as a variety of fossil crinoids.

    But I have never read anything like this!

    http://echinoblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/giant-floaty-swimmy-fossil-crinoids.html

    This literally turns (at least some) crinoids upside down! Pelagic crinoids.

    Giant crinoids attached to logs, apparently floating near the surface. Dozens of them attached to one log several metres long!! Other crinoids with gas balloons on the ends of stems. Crinoids which it is suggested drifted just above the sea bed and dredged the deposit surface.

    Beautiful pictures and interesting text – crinoids as you may never have seen them before.

    (Maybe this is old news. It’s new news to me!)

  193. #197 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    I decided to work from home today because of a doctor’s appointment that was going to break up the day anyway – then my kids’ school shut down for the afternoon and so did the college. Whee?

  194. #198 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Heard the Blind Boys of Alabama’s cover of “Dimming of the Day”? It sounds great of course but I think I kinda resent their turning it into some sort of devotional. Maybe I’m just touchy.

    You can find that on Beat The Retreat. That was a stunning cover. And, no, it did not really bother me. Many of RT songs are like prime soul songs, they cover the ground between love songs and devotionals. His album with Linda, Pour Down Like Silver, screams out his muslim faith. (And not just those cover photos.) It is also one of his best albums.

    As good as this tribute album is, I like The World Is A Wonderful Place Better. The title song should have been released on a proper album but given the darkness of the song, it never would have gone anywhere. Christine Collister’s cover of How Will I Ever Be Simple Again is heartbreaking, Plainsong’s a capella rendition of Galway To Graceland is beautiful and Full Moon Fair (Henry Kaiser)doing Night Comes In is as stunning as The Five Bind Boys Of Alabama.

  195. #200 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Someone needs to start a multi-level marketing scheme selling Morning After pills in Utah.

    Wouldn’t work. The foot-soldiers of the MLMs are overwhelmingly Mormons in my experience.

  196. #201 Menyambal
    February 25, 2010

    Regarding sauropods: I have long thought it likely that the big guys with long necks did not feed from trees, but were made for an energy-conserving ground-feeding method. That consisted of shuffling a step, sweeping those long necks in a big arc to feed off a big area of ground, and shuffling another step. Which results in a lot of area for a little locomotion.

    I had never seen any mention of this idea, but I just now caught a small reference to it while checking before writing about it here. Huh.

  197. #202 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Didn’t mention yet? I had half a portion of cauliflower-broccoli soup in the cafeteria today. I don’t like cauliflower in general, but this soup was blended, and I had no alternative (other than skipping the entire meal altogether)? Surprisingly, it was a bit bitter, rather lacking in the usual cauliflower taste.

    Pelagic crinoids.

    I only knew half of this. It’s deeply impressive, but read the comments, too?

    I decided to work from home today because of a doctor’s appointment that was going to break up the day anyway – then my kids’ school shut down for the afternoon and so did the college. Whee?

    Cool. Why did they shut down?

  198. #203 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    And you’re sure you’re not a little bit sexist about this?? :^)

    of course I am. this is a reference to a well-known, snarky answer to the question why women are so much less common in the upper echelons of high-stress, time consuming careers: it’s because, unlike most businessmen, businesswomen do not have wifes who take over all household management and thus free the businessperson to focus entirely on their career.

    I’m in no way saying men can’t be primary caretakers. I am however saying that, since women are still automatically expected to do the housekeeping and child-rising, it’s hard enough to find men who will do an equal share of that work; finding one willing to do the majority of it would be even more difficult.

    And since I’m not actually looking for one (having children doesn’t even register on the priority list), this just isn’t going to happen for me. Certainly, the current boyfriend doesn’t qualify as a “wife”, if only because neither of us seems capable of keeping this place clean. doesn’t matter right now, since right now only the mice eat off the floor; but with a baby, the floors would probably have to be cleaned more often than once every 6 months…

    did I mention I’m completely unsuited for parenthood? :-p

  199. #204 MrFire
    February 25, 2010

    They certainly brighten mine!!!

    :D

    Even though I don’t think Ham really lurks here.

    Yes, to be honest, I don’t either. Just showing off, even if there’s not much to show off.

  200. #205 cicely
    February 25, 2010

    Last Thread, someone (Janine? Lynna?) said that she would never walk behind somebody else. I like to walk behind others! It makes them feel all itchy between the shoulderblades.

    (And if it doesn’t, they’ll soon find out why they should!)]
    :D

  201. #206 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    I had never seen any mention of this idea

    Interesting, because it has been widespread in the primary literature.

    It’s also controversial, though. For instance, it doesn’t actually save energy ? for such a large animal, locomotion is relatively so cheap that growing and maintaining an endless neck instead would be a huge waste. The walking necessary to exploit the space such a neck can reach on the ground requires the energy contained in, like, half a bite of “fresh browse” for Giraffatitan, as was calculated in Paul & Leahy (1994) or Paul (1998). I don’t remember which one, but can supply references later.

    There are also interesting differences between at least two types of long sauropod necks. Unfortunately they’re still not sufficiently understood.

  202. #207 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Janine @184, you are just raising the jealousy stakes. Knowing Cynthia and going to concerts with her … awesome. I’ve never seen any of the casts of breasts. I’ll have to take some time and google the plaster casts of boobs.

    Evangelicals interrupted a Voodoo ceremony, and now there’s video up of the interaction. There’s also a story that includes a declaration of holy war:

    Haiti’s supreme voodoo leader vowed “war” on Wednesday after Evangelicals attacked a ceremony organized by his religion honoring those killed in last month’s massive earthquake.

    Loved the crinoid videos and news. I have some crinoid fossils — found at the southern tip of the Lemhi Range.

  203. #208 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    the floors would probably have to be cleaned more often than once every 6 months…

    I clean up to once a week? in fact, I’ll come home “early” today, and I’m not catastrophically tired yet, so I should be able to do last weekend’s floor-wiping today? :-)

  204. #209 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Snow day. The storm’s been forecast for a few days, but they were gun-shy about closing schools because as of this morning we had only gotten about 4-5 inches, not nearly what had been forecast. Then came the snow, and it’s still coming. I shoveled the driveway 4 hours ago, and now it’s got what looks like another 6 inches or so on top. Shutting down in the middle of the day is the worst case scenario for K-12 because of the after school care problems (they have to contact every child’s family to make sure someone will be there for them when they get home), but it was a pretty sudden “Oh crap it really is getting bad out there” kind of decision.

  205. #210 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010
    Someone needs to start a multi-level marketing scheme selling Morning After pills in Utah.

    Wouldn’t work. The foot-soldiers of the MLMs are overwhelmingly Mormons in my experience.

    You’re right. Mormons can be duplicitous and hypocritical (especially when it comes to making money), but they can’t be openly duplicitous and hypocritical.

    So, this means that a mormon management team needs to hire infidels and apostates to start up a black market in “morning after” pills. Such a thing might even already exist — headquartered in Mexico?

  206. #211 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    You’re right. Mormons can be duplicitous and hypocritical (especially when it comes to making money), but they can’t be openly duplicitous and hypocritical.

    Can I post a Mormon joke or two that follow in this vein?

    Q: How do you keep a Mormon from drinking all your booze at a party?
    A: Invite two of them.

    Q: How do you distinguish between the major Christian sects?
    A: Protestants don’t recognise the authority of the Pope, Catholics don’t recognise the legitimacy of divorce, and Mormons don’t recognise each other at the liquor store.

  207. #212 Alan B
    February 25, 2010

    #207 Lynna

    Hi Lynna

    Presumably you or your brother are aware of:

    Structural Geology of Western Part of Lemhi Range, East-Central Idaho
    U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1659

    http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/p1659/p1659.pdf

  208. #213 Alan B
    February 25, 2010

    #201 & #206

    Well, there was always the Lawn Mower dinosaur (Nigersaurus):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8lJKXn6MmQ

    Now there’s a dino designed adapted to a life of low-level browseing!

    (Yes, I know there was no grass – would you prefer “fern mower”?)

  209. #214 Alan B
    February 25, 2010

    #201 & #206

    This is how they lived and ate – we have video of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXV0Lr2xqg&NR=1

  210. #215 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Alan B @212: I think Steve has that document, but I’ll ask him to be sure. I remember reading it once when I was looking for info I wanted to incorporate in Backcountry Roads, but I found it a hard slog. It’s too technical for me. I need to go back to school.

    As for the Gertie the Dinosaur cartoon, I note that dinos ate rocks and swallowed trees. Seems right.

  211. #216 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    NCAA yanks Focus on the Family ad amid concerns

    Weeks after scoring a publicity coup with a 30-second Super Bowl ad featuring Heisman Trophy winner Tim Tebow, conservative Christian group Focus on the Family is at the center of another marketing tug-of-war?this time involving the major governing body of college sports.
         The National Collegiate Athletic Association removed a Focus on the Family banner ad from one of its Web sites this week, NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said Wednesday.
         The NCAA made the decision after some of its members?including faculty and athletic directors?expressed concern that the evangelical group?s stance against gay and lesbian relationships conflicted with the NCAA?s policy of inclusion regardless of sexual orientation, Williams said….
         Pat Griffin, a retired University of Massachusetts Amherst professor who is a consultant to the NCAA on gay and lesbian issues, said it?s not a generic feel-good message.
         She said the slogan?s ?life? reference is anti-abortion, and celebrating families does not extend to all families but ?a very specific kind of family? heterosexual married families. A large part of their energy goes to preventing other kinds of families of having recognition.?
         Griffin said it?s one thing for CBS to accept such an ad, but it?s different for the NCAA.
         ?It?s not the right image or role for the NCAA to be endorsing an organization that has such an extreme right-wing Christian political mission,? said Griffin, who used her blog to protest the ad.
         Schneeberger said Focus on the Family spends 90 percent of its budget on providing parenting and marriage resources and 10 percent on advocacy on issues such as abortion and gay marriage.

  212. #217 Alan B
    February 25, 2010

    #215 Lynna

    I note that dinos ate rocks

    Gastroliths! Sauropods did at least.

    Some extinct animals such as sauropod dinosaurs appear to have used stones to grind tough plant matter … Aquatic animals, such as plesiosaurs, may have used them as ballast, to help balance themselves or to decrease their buoyancy, as crocodiles do … While some fossil gastroliths are rounded and polished, many stones in living birds are not polished at all. Gastroliths associated with dinosaur fossils can weigh several kilograms.

    (Sorry – only Wiki but it gives a flavour)

  213. #218 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    Argh. I had to chair a debate this evening. It went quite badly.

    Also, I have to stay up tonight and finish my work, and I really, really want a Diet Pepsi. But the vending machine only accepts coins, and I only have 50p in coins (I need 60p). How can I possibly finish this work without more caffeine?

    (OK, I’m now officially using the Endless Thread as a substitute for Twitter.)

  214. #219 Menyambal
    February 25, 2010

    Interesting, because it has been widespread in the primary literature.

    I don’t get to read much serious literature these days, sadly. I was just proud that I came up with the idea on my own. Thanks, David and others, for links and info.

  215. #220 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    The National Collegiate Athletic Association removed a Focus on the Family banner ad from one of its Web sites this week, NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said Wednesday.

    :-)

    Argh. I had to chair a debate this evening. It went quite badly.

    Also, I have to stay up tonight and finish my work, and I really, really want a Diet Pepsi. But the vending machine only accepts coins, and I only have 50p in coins (I need 60p). How can I possibly finish this work without more caffeine?

    (OK, I’m now officially using the Endless Thread as a substitute for Twitter.)

    that was more than 160 characters… ;-)

  216. #221 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Well, there was always the Lawn Mower dinosaur (Nigersaurus):

    Nigersaurus was indeed quite obviously a grazer, but one of the features that make this obvious is its (for a sauropod) extremely short neck.

    This is how they lived and ate – we have video of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXV0Lr2xqg&NR=1

    Aaaaah. The classic. =8-)

    Some extinct animals such as sauropod dinosaurs appear to have used stones to grind tough plant matter

    That would make sense, but that’s not what sauropods did; their gastroliths don’t look like it, as a recent series of experimental papers by Oliver Wings shows. This makes it a very good question what the fuck they did with their gastroliths. Perhaps they just used them to stir their food around in the stomach.

    I had to chair a debate this evening.

    You had to?

    I have to stay up tonight and finish my work

    You got up at 7:30 and still have to stay up? Either your studies are really cruel. Or you were too tired today to do much of anything. Or, of course, both. :-(

  217. #222 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Keith Olbermann talks about “death panels”, the entire health care debacle, and his father’s experiences with the health care system. Olbermann swears at Sarah Palin, and generally makes a very strong statement. Long, but worth watching.

  218. #223 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    Walton #218
    The perversity of the universe tends to a Maximum

    This morning things went well.
    Got up at 6.45, shit, shower, shave and shampoo (in the correct order). Took Miss M her tea in bed, made and ate breakfast, made my lunch and packed it into my tastful (lime green decorated with frogs) lunch box. Kissed Miss M, drove to work and parked neatly. Self congratulation was evident even to the blackbird singing in the tree.
    Then I noticed I had forgotten my lunch box.

    Ther’s always somthing to bite your ankle.

  219. #224 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Have you facepalmed enough today? No? Then go here.

    that was more than 160 characters… ;-)

    X-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    Perfect. :-)

  220. #225 AJ Milne
    February 25, 2010

    Self congratulation was evident even to the blackbird singing in the tree…

    Y’know, if I don’t have a Snow White-style duet with some passerines in the morning, I just know I’m doing somethin’ wrong…

    (/Like forgetting the ‘shrooms I usually stir into my omelette, say…)

  221. #226 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Have you facepalmed enough today? No? Then go here.

    I’d love to fulfill my daily facepalm quota, but you borked the link

  222. #227 Quackalicious
    February 25, 2010

    I?m very cautious about posting here, because I believe in the vernacular of this strange little world I?m a troll?
    But strange Gods posted about suicide, and no one has really given a clear picture of what to expect. Typically, patients in deepest depression will not take their lives until they begin to emerge from the depression. The emergence provides them with both the energy to follow through and the stimulus to avoid ?ever going back there again.? As others have posted, just when they are on the mend they are at greatest risk.
    In terms of medications to watch for in her age group, I have found beta blockers to be very fatiguing to the elderly. They are also commonly prescribed but have a worse side effect picture than the newer drugs, which are more effective.
    I have also found elderly patients resistant to the internet as a ?social group.? They tend to do better in face-to-face interactions, like the ?red hat? society. But statistically, a church group of some kind (I know, heresy on this site, but I?m already a troll) is what that age group best responds to. The Unitarian Universalists are a group that are widely available and do not have a fixed religious doctrine.
    With family members I have found beginning the discussion of ?when should mom be in assisted living?? has prompted changes in living arrangements, either to assisted living or to live with a child. In either case, mom feels more part of the social fabric.
    The fear of leaving home and new things is also typical. I have found that supplementing with the essential amino acid tryptophan (I already said I was a troll) is helpful in easing anxiety and supporting sleep. It has the advantage of being fairly non-toxic and being available over-the-counter so she doesn?t have to get another prescription. It may interact with any other anti-depressant, but it?s cross reaction to other medications is minimal.
    Because I know I?m a troll, but I?m still determined to help, I have posted various studies on depression under the ?What Do I Treat?? section of my website: http://www.maloneymedical.com
    From one person who?s lost dear ones to you.
    Christopher Maloney, N.D.

  223. #228 Sven DiMilo
    February 25, 2010

    You’re not a troll unless you’re trolling.

    Everybody is welcome in the Thread Everlasting, but everyone is also exposed for argument or criticism.

  224. #229 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    the floors would probably have to be cleaned more often than once every 6 months…

    I not only clean the floors but I do the dishes as well. My plates are so clean you could eat off of them.

  225. #230 Sven DiMilo
    February 25, 2010

    Some folks around here are habitually too quick to apply the “troll” label, IMO.

  226. #231 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Some folks around here are habitually too quick to apply the “troll” label, IMO.

    STFU, troll.

  227. #232 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    ‘Tis Himself, OM @ 229:

    I not only clean the floors but I do the dishes as well. My plates are so clean you could eat off of them.

    Would you like to be my 2nd husband?

  228. #233 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    I’d love to fulfill my daily facepalm quota, but you borked the link

    <facepalm> I did. Second try. You’ve probably already seen it, it’s in the Top 5 Most Active…

    I?m very cautious about posting here, because I believe in the vernacular of this strange little world I?m a troll?

    No, that term has a fairly strict definition: a troll is someone who deliberately throws an infuriating remark in and giggles at the predictably infuriated responses. It’s remarkably common that trolls openly admit to trolling after a couple of comments, as a kind of power game (“see, you all dance to my tune”).

    Besides, you didn’t actually advocate any naturopathic or otherwise untested remedies… :o)

    And yes, I can easily imagine that a UU community would help. After all, these aren’t people who desperately wrestle with the fact that their moral compass is better than their god’s. (Barb, now banned, was such a specimen that is to cry for.)

  229. #234 triskelethecat
    February 25, 2010

    @Christopher Maloney: Those are generally good ideas, and true. Most depressives don’t have the energy to commit suicide until recovering (as wrong as that sounds, at least that’s what they taught us in nursing school; the biggest suicide risk is as they begin recovery). Community of ANY type is helpful, if the person can be encouraged to get involved.

    Your comment this time wasn’t trolling; however, I did NOT go to your site to read what you have there. Your comment here was generally appropriate, although blog self-promotion is not usually appreciated.

  230. #235 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I did. Second try. You’ve probably already seen it, it’s in the Top 5 Most Active

    you’re right, I have. I read Dispatches daily :-)

  231. #236 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Some folks around here are habitually too quick to apply the “troll” label, IMO.

    We’ve actually been bereft of ‘real’ trolls over the last few days – in my time zone, at least. But I think we’ve become more accustomed to not having anyone to stomp. Last time we went this long without a knock-down-drag-out certain people seemed to want to start fights for the sake of it.

  232. #237 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    My plates are so clean you could eat off of them.

    Heh. I only use one, and that only for soups, so I can simply lick it clean… then there’s one pot which I almost never need to clean because I only cook the same 2 to 3 things in it (and it’s easy to empty just about completely with spoon and teeth)… the other pot I only use for noodles and for heating water for tea; both are very rare occurrences, so it hardly matters that it needs to be washed when I had noodles and want tea. Currently it’s been standing around unwashed for 2 weeks, I think, if not 3.

    My milk mug needs to be washed every couple of weeks, too. Using it twice per day does leave deposits over longer timespans. The tea mug never needs to be cleaned.

    </TMI>

  233. #238 AJ Milne
    February 25, 2010

    Last time we went this long without a knock-down-drag-out certain people seemed to want to start fights for the sake of it.

    Oh yeah?! Did not! Post proof or retract! Jerk!

    (/Mandatory/obvious…)

  234. #239 SC OM
    February 25, 2010

    I?m very cautious about posting here, because I believe in the vernacular of this strange little world I?m a troll?

    No, you’re a quack.

  235. #240 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    I read Dispatches daily :-)

    I used to, till I noticed there are only 30 hours in a day. :-(

    We’ve actually been bereft of ‘real’ trolls over the last few days

    Trolls, creationists, lots of groups of people have become very rare since PZ made registration obligatory in order to get rid of the spambots; he didn’t have time to delete their hundreds of comments per day anymore. (The ScienceBlogs overlords, you see, are too stupid to implement a Captcha or anything.)

  236. #241 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Last time we went this long without a knock-down-drag-out certain people seemed to want to start fights for the sake of it.

    I tried in comment #231, but Sven’s not biting. He must be chicken.

  237. #242 mayhempix
    February 25, 2010

    HaPpY hApPy !!!

  238. #243 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Quackalicious #227

    I?m very cautious about posting here, because I believe in the vernacular of this strange little world I?m a troll?

    One problem is you’ve been outed as an anti-rationalist. As a group the Pharyngula regulars are either scientists or interested in science. We think of ourselves as rationalists. Dealing with SIWOTI is one of our favorite pastimes.

    There’s the further problem that you’ve come across as something of a whiner. Both of these problems are things you’ll have to overcome.

    Our standards are high, particularly on the never-ending thread, which has a high percentage of OMs (Order of Molly).

    Anyone can post here. Just be warned that you may be called upon to support any statements you make and that you’ll be insulted. We discourage ad hominem attacks. Consider the difference between “You’re wrong because you’re a fucking idiot” and “You’re wrong because of fact A, you fucking idiot.” The former is ad hominem, the latter is a legitimate response to a claim coupled with an insult. I guarantee if you post here for any length of time you will be insulted.

  239. #244 Kel, OM
    February 25, 2010

    My leave has been approved for the GAC, so all I have to do now is organise accommodation.

  240. #245 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    The tea mug never needs to be cleaned.

    indeed :-)

    incidentally, I use the same cleaning method as you when I’m living by myself and/or don’t feel like cooking for extended periods of time. however, actually cooking requires the washing of various pots, pans, cutting boards, utensils, etc.

    I still keep on reusing the same dinner plate, though… I think it probably gets washed once every 4-5 meals on average.

  241. #246 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I used to, till I noticed there are only 30 hours in a day. :-(

    yeah, the world is evil that way. so much information, so little time to absorb it!!

  242. #247 Kel, OM
    February 25, 2010

    but I?m still determined to help

    You can help by stopping offering quack treatments as an means of therapy.

  243. #248 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    David M. and Jadehawk: Are you serious? I would never reuse a dinner plate without washing it up first. Nor, usually, a coffee mug (I don’t drink tea). The only things I keep using without washing them are cups/glasses for Diet Pepsi (it doesn’t taste so good if you drink it straight from the can). And I thought I was a lazy student…

  244. #249 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    David Marjanovi? #224
    Reminds me of The Great Loyalty Oath Crusade (Catch 22) somehow..

    First read that about 1965. I still remember how my ribs ached.

    I sometimes read ‘General Dreedle’s Nurse to Miss M.
    She still needs a strong cuppa to recover.

  245. #250 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    David M. and Jadehawk: Are you serious?

    absolutely serious. but then, you’d probably be utterly grossed out by my living standards anyway. I’ve given up the fight for sanitary living conditions a long time ago. as long as it doesn’t make me ill, i can no longer be bothered to care.

    and have i mentioned i have mice? and not as pets, either.

  246. #251 Jessie
    February 25, 2010

    What about tea stains in the mug? Being British, I’m very particular about my tea: is it correct to add the milk before the tea and bleach or after them?

  247. #252 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    Argh. International law. ILC Draft Articles on State Responsibility. Nottebohm. Barcelona Traction. UN General Assembly Resolution 1803. Need… more… caffeine…

    (Ignore me. I’m just venting.)

  248. #253 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I see our Qwack stopped by so show he is an amoral fool without any science backing him. Which we already knew. And blogwhoring can be considered a crime, depending on how much PZ’s dental work is hurting him. What a loser.

  249. #254 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Ignore me. I’m just venting.

    Venting? PLASMA?! Bridge, we’ve got an emergency down in engineering! I estimate three minutes to a warp core breach!

  250. #255 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I estimate three minutes to a warp core breach!

    Damn! Our last dilithium crystals are still in the draining rack. Jadehawk refuses to clean them during her watch so I have to clean hers and mine both.

  251. #256 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Damn! Our last dilithium crystals are still in the draining rack. Jadehawk refuses to clean them during her watch so I have to clean hers and mine both.

    See, this is exactly why I specified a crystal washer or at the very least a double sink, but do those hyperspanner-monkeys at Utopia Planitia ever listen to the people who are actually gonna use the damn ship? Oh no-o-o-o-o-o-o!

  252. #257 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    Hey – why is it always ‘down in engineering’?
    aren’t we being just a bit engineeringist here?

    Shelterbox Update

    http://www.shelterbox.org/news.php?id=252

  253. #258 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Mrs Tilton has been sighted in the 10 latest comments.

    He must be chicken.

    Chicken chicken chicken

    (And don’t think it’s repetitive. Watch it all the way to the end. And then maybe download the pdf, even!)

    indeed :-)

    <hug> ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

    Sorry, couldn’t restrain myself :-)

    Are you serious? I would never reuse a dinner plate without washing it up first.

    When I, sir, lick a dinnerplate clean, it’s clean and dry, and indistinguishable from a washed-up & dried one. Same result for less time, less effort, and less waste of good food.

    Basically, what I need to wash up is where my tongue doesn’t reach! =8-)

    and have i mentioned i have mice?

    Mice are nice.

    What about tea stains in the mug?

    Yeah, what about them? :-| What about tea stains in the tea mug? Will they make the tea taste of tea?

    And blogwhoring can be considered a crime

    <sigh> Yes, but Christopher Maloney, Negatio Doctoris, hasn’t done any that far. Linking to one’s blog in one’s name is normal. In fact, it’s what I have to pretend to be doing just so that I can comment here at all (I don’t have a blog, the link in my name doesn’t lead anywhere).

    I estimate three minutes to a warp core breach!

    That’s like crossing the streams, right?

    * * *

    And now I’m off to wipe the floor :-) :-) :-) I’m so proud of myself :-) :-) :-)

    (Given my dust allergy, and the dirt on my shoes, I should wipe it every weekend. Doesn’t happen, somehow.)

  254. #259 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    ‘down in engineering’

    Have you been there? Depressing place. Total bringdown. Hence…

  255. #260 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    Been There??

    I practically fucking live there!

    But then what do I know? I’m just an Ignorant engineer

  256. #261 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    When I, sir, lick a dinnerplate clean, it’s clean and dry, and indistinguishable from a washed-up & dried one. Same result for less time, less effort, and less waste of good food.

    Ugh! *retches* Please tell me you’re joking. Seriously.

    Anyway, I’m going to bed now, having just about got my head around the ILC Draft Articles on State Responsibility (which would actually be very interesting if I were less tired).

    Hey – why is it always ‘down in engineering’?

    Because on the Enterprise, in all its various incarnations, engineering was always on a lower deck than the bridge. (On the NCC-1701-D, engineering must have been located in the part of the ship containing the nacelles and the battle bridge, since engineering contained the warp core, and the saucer section was meant to be separable from the nacelles but could only travel on impulse power. I remember a couple of non-canon novels in which the saucer section was separated, though I can’t recall if it happened in an episode.)

    Wow. I should not be displaying my geek status so flamboyantly in a public forum. I blame sleep deprivation.

  257. #262 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Actually, I should mention that I didn’t even come up with “mice are nice” on my own, though I… hopefully could have. It’s from a Tom & Jerry film. “Roses are red, violets are blue, mice are nice, and so are YOU, KID!!! [in huge red letters that I don't want to reproduce here]“…

    My brother and I communicate mostly in citations from the classical literature, as if we were Confucian scholars, or those Star Trek weirdos with their “entirely metaphorical language”. Only our definition of “classical literature” is a bit different: it consists mostly of the German version of this

    Well, as I said, I’m off to wipe the floor. :-)

  258. #263 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    David Marjanovi? @ 233:

    The tea mug never needs to be cleaned.

    Yep. Mine will get rinsed if I get rushed and can’t finish my tea, but that’s all.

  259. #264 Stephen Wells
    February 25, 2010

    Walton, I guess this is one forum where your geek status won’t a problem.

    Isn’t separating your saucer and engineering sections in battle now famous as the Picard Manoeuvre?

  260. #265 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    And to prove it here I am in that

    ‘Depressing place. Total bringdown’

    http://picasaweb.google.com/108761785989910513889/Work#

  261. #266 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    Isn’t separating your saucer and engineering sections in battle now famous as the Picard Manoeuvre?

    Doh. Yes, of course it is. I forgot that.

    Evidently I’m not even a good geek (not while sleep-deprived, anyway).

  262. #267 Walton
    February 25, 2010

    I really need to go to bed, but can’t summon the energy to move away from the computer. Please shout at me (in ALL CAPS) if I post again before tomorrow morning. :-)

  263. #268 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Ugh! *retches* Please tell me you’re joking. Seriously.

    Absolutely not. When I write “clean & dry”, I mean it. The trick is to have your lower lip follow your tongue closely so it presses against the plate in a watertight manner. In general, I do a lot of “licking” with the lips only ? of knives, for instance, and of ice cream most of the time when I can’t eat it with a little spoon (I don’t like wafers, you see).

    Most of the floor is wiped. Especially the part between me and the light switch. I’ll need to perform acrobatic maneuvers to be able to go to bed… Last time I actually thought of this and opened the blinds; there’s a street lamp in front of the window, which is plenty enough light to wipe the floor, go to bed, and close the blinds again. <sigh>

  264. #269 aratina cage of the OM
    February 25, 2010

    Isn’t separating your saucer and engineering sections in battle now famous as the Picard Manoeuvre?

    It looks like the Picard Maneuver is using a burst of warp speed to make it appear as if there are two vessels, confusing the enemy and leaving them vulnerable. The saucer separation battle tactic was dreamt up by Commander Shelby and employed by Riker with a twist to capture Locutus of Borg.

  265. #270 Brownian, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Holy crap, SteveV! That’s ‘Men at Work’? Which one is Colin Hay?

  266. #271 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Hey – why is it always ‘down in engineering’?

    Because in ships engineering is always below the main deck. Look at this ship and this one and even this one. You don’t see boilers and turbines and mechanicy stuff hanging around in the open air? Of course not. If you want to see an engine room you’ve got to go down.

  267. #272 David Marjanovi?
    February 25, 2010

    Done. Next to my 3 pairs of shoes I had left enough unwiped that 3 steps and a knife were enough to switch the light off. :-) Also, there are 2 street lamps in front of my window, not 1. Good night, Walton.

  268. #273 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 25, 2010

    #198 Posted by: Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM | February 25, 2010 1:54 PM

    You can find that on Beat The Retreat. That was a stunning cover. And, no, it did not really bother me. Many of RT songs are like prime soul songs, they cover the ground between love songs and devotionals. His album with Linda, Pour Down Like Silver, screams out his muslim faith. (And not just those cover photos.) It is also one of his best albums.

    Have ‘em both, and y’know I’d forgotten what album DotD was on. That one is a knockout; “For Shame of Doing Wrong” has always grabbed me too. Left me more kindly disposed toward Sufism than I might be otherwise.

    We heard the BBofA sing “Dimming” at the Fillmore, the night we decided we were too old to go there again.

    As good as this tribute album is, I like The World Is A Wonderful Place Better. The title song should have been released on a proper album but given the darkness of the song, it never would have gone anywhere. Christine Collister’s cover of How Will I Ever Be Simple Again is heartbreaking, Plainsong’s a capella rendition of Galway To Graceland is beautiful and Full Moon Fair (Henry Kaiser)doing Night Comes In is as stunning as The Five Bind Boys Of Alabama.

    I couldn’t name a favorite, myself, but yeah we have both and I concur with your assessments there. We saw Full Moon Fair live, which meant something like 126? strings (no piano) on the old Freight’s teeny little stage. I know we have a recording of the Mekong Delta Blues set somewhere but I’ll be damned if I can find it and Joe’s doing an interview so I can’t ask him where the hell he filed it.

    Looking for that, I found we have a CD of that winery concert, too: From Scotland to Hopland.

    Where the hell’s Watching the Dark?? OH, maybe we only have the LP. I was thrilled when we found Henry the Human Fly on CD because LPs don’t work so well in the car and that’s great staying-awake music.

    Damn, we need another re-org here. We do have that big old five-CD RT collection and a bunch of “official bootlegs.”

    Ah. Joe’s off the phone and found the Henry Kaiser CD Hope You Like Our New Direction with that Full Moon Fair track; also, RT’s “Annihilation in Allah”, speaking of faithey stuff.

    I find I often enjoy stuff in languages I don’t understand ‘cuz often I’d rather not, ya know?

  269. #274 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 25, 2010

    Pee Yes: #273 was me, Ron Sullivan, the Queen of Forgetting Things.

  270. #275 windy
    February 25, 2010

    Also, there are 2 street lamps in front of my window, not 1.

    There …are …two lights!!!

  271. #276 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    I suddenly have a strong urge to send David one of these, but to each his own. As long as he doesn’t invite anyone over for dinner.

    I’ve met several people who swear by the patina formed in coffee and tea mugs, and think that washing the mug totally ruins months to years of effort to build it up.

  272. #277 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    If you think what’s been described in this thread is nauseating, Walton, you really need to read – if you can get it in the UK – He Died with a Felafel in His Hand, a slightly fictionalised account of student sharehousing in Australia in the late 70s/early 80s.

    Utterly, utterly brilliant – while slightly horrifying in terms of living conditions (and drug use).

    I’m probably slightly more hygienic than Jadehawk and DM, but not by much. I tend to rinse and reuse things once or twice and do the washing up maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

    Also, I learned while at college that a tannin-stained mug is far less likely to get stolen from the communal kitchen than a nice, clean one. As a result mine only gets washed very slightly; to try and scour out the stains would take far more effort than I’m prepared to put in.

  273. #278 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I’ve met several people who swear by the patina formed in coffee and tea mugs, and think that washing the mug totally ruins months to years of effort to build it up.

    as long as they don’t mix them, it’s all good. tea out of coffee mugs, and coffee out of tea mugs both taste horrible. this is even true for thermos bottles, even ones that are actually cleaned, so my mom always had two: one for tea, one for coffee.

  274. #279 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    Bronian #270 Guy second from left played guitar, but could not be decribed as either Austraaalian or Colin.
    I’ve just noticed – don’t we all look bloody smug!

  275. #280 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    Bronian? Bronian?
    Deepest apoloigies

    I will now deploy excuses 27 & 42
    Ahem

    ‘Shakespear couln’t spell either’

    ‘It’s well past my bedtime’

  276. #281 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    @279: Guys looking smug in little blue suits (and little blue hair coverings)– well, it’s a skill, isn’t it?

    Here’s an awesome service from LDS Rankings. They have ranked all the apologists and the apologetics websites so we only have to read the highest quality of bullshit.

    They begin by helpfully offering a definition:

    Apologists use current scholarship, scripture, Church doctrine, historical literature and sound logic in constructing faithful, well-reasoned answers.

    [you may begin facepalming and headdesking now]

    Here are some choice excerpts:

    ?LDS scholars can and should speak in the tongue of scholarship, but without coming to prefer it and without losing the mother tongue of faith.?

    There are extensive and impressive evidences for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as an ancient document dealing with real people and places, contrary to the endlessly repeated claims of some critics. Such evidence does not and should not equal “proof,” but represents indications of plausibility that demand further attention

    [Don't you just love the use of "evidences" instead of "evidence"? -- mucho more serious that way ... and believable.]

    The Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research (FAIR) is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of LDS (Mormon) doctrine, belief and practice.

    This last one is at http://www.fairlds.org, and the site offers an “Ask the Apologist” feature. So, if you like, you can go there and pose questions.

  277. #282 SteveV
    February 25, 2010

    ‘Tis Himself, OM #271
    This is as close as I get to ships

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-APsXZVyZLE

  278. #283 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I apologize to Jadehawk and to David M. for washing my dishes. I can’t help it.

  279. #284 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    This is as close as I get to ships

    I spent over four years in this ship. :-P

  280. #285 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    ‘Tis, at one time we had a cGMP trainer who had a photo of his ship at the North Pole. You do anything like that?

  281. #286 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    I found out by chance yesterday that the Professor of Emergency in my organisation, the, like, ueber-Doctor,a strictly suit and tie type who at work is as funny as a dead rat, is a total utter Star Trek geek, every episode archived, little models on the walls, goes to conventions, the whole shebang.
    It was quite the shock.

    If you want to see an engine room you’ve got to go down.

    *Nods*
    :P

  282. #287 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Oh, and look what the cat dragged in !

    Baloney @ 227,

    I have found beta blockers to be very fatiguing to the elderly. They are also commonly prescribed but have a worse side effect picture than the newer drugs, which are more effective.

    What do you mean by newer drugs ? That work like betablockers while not being betablockers?Or newer betablockers?What do you mean by fatiguing?And does this happen to every elderly person, or just a select few, and how do you explain this?And what side effects are you talking about?
    I find your statement to be of mind-boggling generalisation and little substance.

  283. #288 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Rorschach,

    *Nods* Nerds.

    Fixed it for you :)

  284. #289 badgersdaughter
    February 25, 2010

    Pikachu, some days ago you linked to a lovely rendition of lao duang deuan, a choral arrangement, I think. I wanted to let you know that I went and bought the sheet music and I’m utterly confounded as to pronunciation, but I love the song, Westernized as it must be for someone trained as I was trained. Thanks for sharing.

  285. #290 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Lynna – All breastplates are OM worthy, brass or not. *smirk*

  286. #291 Apolipoprotein E
    February 25, 2010

    Thank you all for the suggestions on the last thread. We continued the discussion but those four men weren’t there, so I had no use for your advice, unfortunately. (It may interest you to know that one of the men also stated that Haiti’s problem were due to their own personal failings, that poor people are at fault because the “chose” to live in undesirable areas, and that he goes on to evangelical missions to “save” these people.)

    P.S. Is my moniker comprehendible? I have a feeling that few people knows what Apolipoprotein E is.

  287. #292 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Patricia! Great to hear from you. Unfortunately, we haven’t got any trolls for you to smite, but there’s still good times to be had.

    How are things?

  288. #293 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Wowbagger – er, Janine has kept my secret…but, since you asked… I’ve been asked out on a date.

  289. #294 Aquaria
    February 25, 2010

    Good for you, Patricia! Have fun!

  290. #295 DLC
    February 25, 2010

    TimeCube!
    Six Sides!
    = = = = = =

    6^3 = 216
    216 * 3.0833333333333333333333333333333 = 666!
    666 = Evil !
    Time Cube!
    happy Blogiversary, Endless Thread!

    /Psychotic

  291. #296 MrFire
    February 25, 2010

    There …are …two lights!!!

    For Chrissakes, somebody get windy some raw taspar eggs already!

  292. #297 AJ Milne
    February 25, 2010

    This is getting too close to a ship.

  293. #298 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM @ 293:

    Wowbagger – er, Janine has kept my secret…but, since you asked… I’ve been asked out on a date.

    Don’t forget your breastplate!

  294. #299 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Wowbagger – er, Janine has kept my secret…but, since you asked… I’ve been asked out on a date.

    Damn. I wish that happened to me!

  295. #300 Opus
    February 25, 2010

    OK, this is long, but bear with me while I indulge in what passes for humor in some circles:

    A long-time atheist approaches the end of his life, comfortable with his beliefs and the end of his earthly existence. (He had begun life as a Calvinist but as the years went by he had realized that the tenets of said faith were totally illogical.) As the end approaches he senses darkness and begins to relax and feel his body shutting down. Suddenly he sees a bright light approaching, as if at the end of a tunnel. ?I know what?s happening,? he thinks to himself, ?this is purely a neurological phenomenon.? As he reaches the light a sense of wonderment & joy engulfs him. ?Yep, more neat neurological stuff going on,? he says to himself. His body begins to feel lighter and he begins to rise. ?Man, dying isn?t really all that bad,? he realizes. ?I wonder if evolution has selected for these effects at the end of consciousness or if it?s all just a byproduct of consciousness. . .?

    Suddenly he pops through a gap in the clouds and is face to face with an enormous set of gates, with a definite pearly iridescence, and an attendant at a desk barring entry. ?Oh, shit! It?s not supposed to be like this!?

    The attendant smiles, gestures him forward and says ?We?ve got a few formalities here as a part of the admissions decision. ?Name?” “Date of birth?? No problem so far. . . ?Religion?? Our new arrival, possibly honed by years spent debating creationists online, stand defiantly erect and says ?None! And bald is not a hair color!?

    ?Relax ,? says the attendant, ?you?re in. All you atheists get uptight when I ask that question. The only reason we ask is to help figure out the best neighborhood for you to start out in. Step through the door and, before you ask, no harps, no choirs, unless you?re into that kind of stuff. There?ll be a guide inside to help you with rookie orientation.?

    Our friend enters a paradise. Food, drink, great conversation & companionship, kick-ass web connections, everything he?d ever wanted. And truly heavenly bacon. He turns to the guide and says ?I guess I?d better apologize to someone for turning away from the truth. How can I speak to John Calvin??

    The guide responds slowly and carefully: ?I?m afraid you?ll have to request a pass and get a fireproof suit. Mr. Calvin isn?t here.?

    Before our atheist friend can respond he is shocked almost beyond words when Richard Dawkins walks by. All he can do is point and say ?What?? When?!?? The guide laughs and says, ?Take a deep breath ? it?s no big deal. Richard is perfectly healthy and alive on earth. That?s God ? he just likes to pretend he?s Richard Dawkins.?

    Don?t know why this came to me today. . .

  296. #301 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Caine – Never! Breastplates or required garb at garden shows.

    Sorry Wowbagger, all that deep water makes it hard for me to ask you out on a date to go riding. Taking for granted you like Harley’s. *smirk*

  297. #302 Lynna, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Lynna – All breastplates are OM worthy, brass or not. *smirk*

    Ah, good. I just needed confirmation from the expert. [fist to breastplate, salute]

  298. #303 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Woo-ee. Patricia on a date. Well, enjoy yourself dear lady.

  299. #304 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Patrica, how nice to hear (or read) from you again. Congratulations on getting your social life going.

  300. #305 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Hour shoveling, third time today….such heavy snow….cars buried….a foot and a half at least since this morning…

    Argh. Usually when we get this much it at least has the decency to be lake effect snow that’s easy to shovel. This stuff has the whole region shut down.

  301. #306 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Oo, Patricia has a date! Have fun! :)

  302. #307 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    I’ve only got one question to ask regarding our new requirement of breastplate wearing

    are we talking nipple-less, a la Michael Keaton, or nippled (as gloriously demonstrated) by George Clooney?

  303. #308 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Gosh, thanks everyone.

  304. #309 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Carlie @ #305

    As someone who spent a childhood dodging coconuts and crocodiles I am naively igorant regarding snow cleaning policy and/or etiquette.

    Out of curiousity though, isn’t there some other method apart from physically shovelling the stuff …hot water, flamethrowers, lots of dogs with full bladders urinating on the stuff?

  305. #310 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Carlie, I understand what you mean. In dah UP, we had a lot of fluffly lake effect snow. Much easier to shovel than the stuff we usually get in this area. Although, last night’s snow was the fluffy stuff.

  306. #311 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Bride of Shrek OM @ 307:

    are we talking nipple-less, a la Michael Keaton, or nippled (as gloriously demonstrated) by George Clooney?

    I want mine like Angua’s* but with nipples. Gotta have nipples.

    *Werewolf in the Watch, Discworld.

  307. #312 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Taking for granted you like Harley’s. *smirk*

    Actually, while I like motorcycles (in principle – I find them fascinating from an aesthetic/mechanical perspective), riding pillion scares the living crap out of me. It would have to be a choice between life and death (or, at the very least, serious inconvenience) before I’d willingly go on the back of a bike.

  308. #313 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    NoR #285

    ‘Tis, at one time we had a cGMP trainer who had a photo of his ship at the North Pole. You do anything like that?

    No, my boat never went there. However if you read Sherry Sontag & Christopher Drew’s Blind Man’s Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage my old sub the Gato is mentioned several times. While I was aboard her we had a collision with a Soviet submarine that was rather exciting and classified INCREDIBLY SECRET-BURN BEFORE READING for years.

  309. #314 onethird-man
    February 25, 2010

    About depression: beta blockers are, actually, proving useful in relieving anxiety, specifically ancient beta-blockers like Propranolol.

    They’ve been used to help chronic phobias, folks with PTSD, and general anxiety attacks.

    They apparently work by shutting down the response to adrenaline, this is only speculation, but this may blunt the reinforcing effects of reliving or experiencing the same trauma or anxiety.

    Since childhood episodes leading to PTSD-type symptoms (those who were abused) have responded to this treatment, as have some with wartime PTSD, it would appear that a refutation might exist for our ND’s position, given that PTSD is one of the means of acquiring a condition that can lead to major depression and higher risk of suicide.

    How would this help a person who is depressive? Depression is only one of the symptoms, and general anxiety can prevent a person from reaching out to any groups at all, including the phenomenally benign Unitarians. Anxiety can also lead to episodes of rage, guilt, feelings of low self-worth, which combined with depression eventually can lead to attempting.

    Beta-blockers can desensitize the emotional component of traumatic memories, one of the features in depressives that reinforces feelings of low self-worth.

  310. #315 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Bride – nippleless if you have bacon for wrapping.

  311. #316 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Bride of Shrek OM @ 309:

    lots of dogs with full bladders urinating on the stuff?

    That doesn’t help, just get lots of frozen yellow patches. We got a snowblower this year, but it’s still a lot of physical work.

  312. #317 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    BoSOM, for more snow removal, try one of these

  313. #318 cicely
    February 25, 2010

    As long as you aren’t wiping your floor down with your lips and tongue, DM….

    Of no particular relevance to anything…relevant, but in playing the thread-heading video, I notice that all of the roses expand their petals outward, then at a certain point contract them slightly, just before they almost explode outward in their final expansion. Neat!

  314. #319 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Apolipoprotein E | February 25, 2010 9:11 PM:

    P.S. Is my moniker comprehendible? I have a feeling that few people knows what Apolipoprotein E is.

    Buck up. Here at Pharyngula, you’re required to have a low opinion of those who aren’t willing to google something they don’t know.

  315. #320 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010
  316. #321 Rorschach
    February 25, 2010

    Wowbagger, I think your twitter thingy is compromised, you just sent me a message with a link to a Vi*gra spam page…:-)

    Off to work !

  317. #322 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    It’s not that hard to find out about Apolipoprotein E is.

  318. #323 onethird-man
    February 25, 2010

    And just in case folks might think (as a newcomer) I might be talking out of my hat without any notion of backing it up (claims of propranolol helping with anxiety and traumatic memories):
    http://www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com/march02/ptsd.html
    http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=28479&cn=1
    A large number of additional references may be had by googling “beta blockers ptsd” or combinations of “propranolol” and “anxiety traumatic memories.”

    The real danger to depressive persons would be from standard anxiolytics like Valium and others (specifically benzodiazepines): they have a rather severe rebound effect, and become very addictive very quickly. Going one dose without can cause symptoms far in excess of any original ones they were meant to treat, and even some they were not meant to treat (many are used as anti-seizure medicine, and even if one is not taking them for seizures, you get seizures if you stop abruptly).

  319. #324 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Wowbagger – Oh, no – I have three Harley’s, a chopper, a bagger, and my little old iron jugged Snortster, your choice. Besides, I never let anyone ride behind me…there’s only two places they want to hang on to. *smiles innocently*

  320. #325 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    ‘Tis Himself, OM @ 320:

    Gotta have nipples.

    That works.

  321. #326 Sven DiMilo
    February 25, 2010

    Disco Dead and I Don’t Care!!!
    NSFJ!

  322. #327 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Speaking as someone who grew up in the lower midwest with scrappy icy heavy snow, I think lake effect snow is magic. The first time I saw it I was amazed that there was actual snow in the world that looked like fake snow; I had always wondered why fake snow (the sparkly cottony stuff in displays) looked nothing like the “real thing” that I was used to.

    I don’t like shoveling this heavy stuff, but my favorite winter moments now are cleaning out lake effect snow at night, with big fluffy flakes drifting slowly and glinting in the light from the streetlamp, all quiet except for those soft snowflake landing thumps that are half there and half imagined.

  323. #328 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    one-third man @ 323:

    And just in case folks might think (as a newcomer) I might be talking out of my hat without any notion of backing it up (claims of propranolol helping with anxiety and traumatic memories):

    Don’t worry about it. The person yakking about beta-blockers is a Quack that PZ wrote about a little while ago:

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/christopher_maloney_still_a_qu.php#comments

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/do_not_harass_the_quacks.php#comments

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/andreas_moritz_is_a_cancer_qua.php#comments

  324. #329 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Speaking as someone who grew up in the lower midwest with scrappy icy heavy snow, I think lake effect snow is magic. The first time I saw it I was amazed that there was actual snow in the world that looked like fake snow; I had always wondered why fake snow (the sparkly cottony stuff in displays) looked nothing like the “real thing” that I was used to.

    lol, I had the exact opposite experience. Having grown up with the soft, fluffy stuff, I never quite understood how igloos worked (I think I probably thought they were made of ice blocks).

    Now I know. There is such a thing as snow hard and solid enough to cut bricks from.

    ——-

    Also, have fun on your date, Patricia!

  325. #330 AJ Milne
    February 25, 2010

    Methods of dealing with snow not technically involving the use of shovels:

    – for smallish quantities at temperatures that aren’t too far from freezing, sometims you can sprinkle a bit of salt on it. Makes it melt, turn to water, run off the surface in question. But this really only works at around 1 cm or less, when, seriously, it ain’t like you even need to remove it that badly. And for large surfaces, that’s a lot of salt, which generally isn’t so nice for vegetation. More generally, salt is more used to prevent ice formation on roads and sidewalks, and to melt away junk that’s already formed on sidewalks and the like before you chop it away.

    – a few neighbours of mine, I kid you not, actually have heated driveways. I don’t know what these cost to run. Somehow, the whole notion seems a bit excessive to me anyway. And probably, these, too, only work for relatively light snowfalls and are more meant to keep ice buildup off after you remove the bulk of the stuff by more mechanical means.

    – you can pay someone to show up in a plow and/or skidsteer to deal with the stuff using hydraulics ‘n all.

    – for uneven walks, like one of my rock walks, that has thyme between the stones in the non-fun season we call summer, screw removing it–or at the very least, don’t bother removing it all. Tramp it down, put sand on top when it turns to ice.

    – in the same vein, you could, I suppose, also ignore it entirely, and just drive and hike over it into your house. You’d need good snow tires, mebbe snowshoes in heavy winters… But around here, you need the former, at least, anyway, if you merely wish to live.

    (/But eventually, following this approach, I’d imagine, the mail delivery people would start to get annoyed. Those guys are such wimps.)

  326. #331 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Carlie, do you see the Northern Lights in your area? It certainly adds another bit of magic seeing the colors up in the clear sky.

  327. #332 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    AJ Milne @ 330:

    (/But eventually, following this approach, I’d imagine, the mail delivery people would start to get annoyed. Those guys are such wimps.)

    Pfffft, getting mail delivered. Soft, I tell ya! We have to retrieve ours from the post office.

  328. #334 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Pfft, getting mail delivered. Soft, I tell ya!

    Soft indeed! Why out here in Orygun we have to hitch 12 pullets to a sledge and mush out into a clearing just to see smoke signals.

  329. #335 WowbaggerOM
    February 25, 2010

    Wowbagger, I think your twitter thingy is compromised, you just sent me a message with a link to a Vi*gra spam page…:-)

    Goddammit. How the hell does that happen? I’ve changed my password; can any of you internet-knowledgeable people confirm that this should stop the problem occurring again?

  330. #336 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 25, 2010

    Patricia

    Why don’t you just teach one of those evolutionary screw-ups how to fly then you could send your mail by carrier-chook.

  331. #337 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Don’t wimp out on snow removal equipment. Get yourself a real snow plow or snow blower.

  332. #338 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Soft indeed! Why out here in Orygun we have to hitch 12 pullets to a sledge and mush out into a clearing just to see smoke signals.

    :D:D:D:D

    I can just see the home-made knit snow shoes on the pullets…

    Time for bed after last nights adventure.

  333. #339 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Bride *wink* *wink* – You aren’t supposed to tell that the girrrls are like Gelflings.

  334. #340 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 25, 2010

    Goodnight you naughty darlings, I’ve got a bacon and yukon gold chowder to set up for the ol’ crock pot, before I get to the serious business of burnishing up the brass bosoms for my date.
    Night, night Nerd.

  335. #341 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM @ 340:

    Goodnight you naughty darlings, I’ve got a bacon and yukon gold chowder to set up for the ol’ crock pot, before I get to the serious business of burnishing up the brass bosoms for my date.

    Have much fun! I’d dearly like the recipe for that chowder. Pleeeaaase?

  336. #342 Carlie
    February 25, 2010

    Gelfling references make me happy. :)

    Nerd, I’m way too far south – northeastern US.

    Jadehawk – too funny. I had an experience similar to your igloo conundrum when I first tried to go play in the fluffy snow; the stuff wouldn’t make a snowman no matter how hard I tried.

    I think I’ve made most of the possible snow removal mistakes by now – not going out in the middle of a snowstorm before it piles up too much, not keeping the integrity of the side banks so that it doesn’t avalanche down or encroach on the driveway too much, letting it build up too much next to the car tires, not leveling off the top of the banks so they don’t get too tall to throw more snow on, not hitting the snowplow pack first before getting too worn out, looking outside and thinking “oh, it doesn’t look that deep” and then not going out early before work to be sure.

  337. #343 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 25, 2010

    Geeze all this talk about nipples on men. Sorta arousing.

    adgersdaughter,
    You’re welcome. It is a pretty version, I also have an instrumental rendition in traditional instruments.

  338. #344 bullofthewoods
    February 25, 2010

    ‘Tis@284 Just giving a shout out to a fellow bubblehead. I spent four years on the Patrick Henry.(SSBN599).

  339. #345 Pygmy Loris
    February 25, 2010

    and have i mentioned i have mice?

    I don’t know how you feel about them, but cats are excellent for tackling a mouse problem. Having mice around can be harmful to your health, and cats are wonderful predators. If you get a cat though, try to get one that was born and lived for a little while (at least a couple of months) as an alley cat or barn cat. Both of our cats came in from outside, and they are wonderful mousers. They kill and eat the mice without leaving anything behind.

  340. #346 llewelly
    February 25, 2010

    Carlie | February 25, 2010 11:06 PM:

    Nerd, I’m way too far south [to see Auroras] – northeastern US.

    When the sun moves into its next active period – probably peaking around 2012-2014 or so – start watching the Aurora forecasting sites, and keep your eyes open – you may well get a chance. I caught a glimpse of them in 2003 in Utah, despite terrible seeing conditions. Some people saw them in Texas. Here’s a podcast with some tips.

  341. #347 Desert Son, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Random musing:

    I used to work in marketing, specifically in an editing and creative production capacity, so some part of my brain tends to have a vague “radar” for marketing gaffes, inadvertent humor, missed market targeting, and the like.

    Anyway, today on the radio I heard an advertisement for a training program for bartenders. It sounded like a normal occupational training program advertisement, mentioning things like length of time (“Learn in just weeks!” that sort of thing), as well as the incentives pitch (“Make great money!”), and so on. I wasn’t paying too much attention to the ad, but then they got to their final pitch line just before the ad closeout.

    “You’re already going to the bars, might as well get paid for it!”

    lols

    Still learning,

    Robert

  342. #348 Caine
    February 25, 2010

    Desert Son, OM @ 347:

    “You’re already going to the bars, might as well get paid for it!”

    Hahahaha. Conveniently leaving out that working in a bar isn’t quite as fun as going to a bar. :D

  343. #349 Pygmy Loris
    February 25, 2010

    Patricia,

    I hope your date went well and you are having a good time. It’s good to see you around again.

  344. #350 Desert Son, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Also, congratulations to Patricia, have a great date.

    ‘Tis, glad to have you with us. A submarine collision is the stuff of nightmares. That line from Jaws where Brody’s wife is talking to Hooper about Brody’s fear of water, asking, “What’s that called?” and Brody interrupts, saying, “Drowning,” has resonated heavily with me since a near-drowning incident when I was 12.

    *shudders*

    Still learning,

    Robert

  345. #351 Jadehawk, OM
    February 25, 2010

    I don’t know how you feel about them, but cats are excellent for tackling a mouse problem. Having mice around can be harmful to your health, and cats are wonderful predators.

    we’re not allowed to have pets, and the boyfriend doesn’t feel like breaking that rule.
    I have been kicking them out whenever I catch one, but they aren’t easy to catch and there seems a never ending supply of them

  346. #352 Desert Son, OM
    February 25, 2010

    Conveniently leaving out that working in a bar isn’t quite as fun as going to a bar. :D

    But of course!

    And with that in mind:

    What the ads say, what the ads mean.

    Have a good weekend, everyone.

    Still learning,

    Robert

  347. #353 Carlie
    February 26, 2010

    I’m all for kill traps for mice; if you let them go, they’ll come right back. But I did read an interesting no-kill trap idea on Lifehacker: get a toilet paper tube, put bait at one end (something like peanut butter), then balance it on the edge of a counter with a tall trash can underneath. Mouse goes through tube to get the bait, as it gets to the far end it tips the whole thing off the counter into the trash can, mouse is stuck until you do something with it.

  348. #354 jaybgee
    February 26, 2010

    Hi everyone. I’m going to be totally off-topic again to thank everyone who suggested history reading material for me in the “full of Guinness” (around Feb.6th) part of the endless thread. First I’m going to read stuff I can get at the library (found 11 of the many books recommended), and possibly buy books if I’m REALLY interested. Now back to lurking.

  349. #355 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    Desert Son, OM @ 352:

    What the ads say, what the ads mean:

    you have good time management skills – you’re one of those annoying people that gets up at five in the morning on your days off, just so you can ‘make the most of the day’

    Hahahaha. Perfect!

  350. #356 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Jadehawk,

    we’re not allowed to have pets, and the boyfriend doesn’t feel like breaking that rule. I have been kicking them out whenever I catch one, but they aren’t easy to catch and there seems a never ending supply of them

    Bummer. They (mice) do multiply like mad! I’ve never been able to catch the mice myself, but the cats can get back into the closets and see under the cabinets where the mice are. I think it’s so cute to see one of them staring at the space between the buffet and the floor, crouching for hours waiting for the mouse to make its move.

    Have you asked your landlord about a cat? My lease initially said no cats, but I told the landlord that I had a mouse and I wanted a cat to make sure mice didn’t become a problem. He was cool with that, but he’s a pretty cool landlord for the most part.

    My cat does spend most of his time at the boyfriend’s house, but I wanted to make sure he could stay with at my place too.

  351. #357 Blind Squirrel FCD
    February 26, 2010

    . I have been kicking them out whenever I catch one, but they aren’t easy to catch and there seems a never ending supply of them.

    LOL! They have a homing instinct! They can return from a mile away after being hauled out at night in a cardboard box. You have just been giving them exercise.

    BS

  352. #358 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Carlie,

    I’m all for kill traps for mice; if you let them go, they’ll come right back.

    Cats are the ultimate kill trap for mice :) I don’t like kill traps because I’m always afraid I’m going to hurt myself when I set them. Cats, OTOH, set themselves.

  353. #359 Jadehawk, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Have you asked your landlord about a cat? My lease initially said no cats, but I told the landlord that I had a mouse and I wanted a cat to make sure mice didn’t become a problem. He was cool with that, but he’s a pretty cool landlord for the most part.

    keep in mind that this is the landlord who was trying to get me to spend all winter with a hole in my wall because he took out the broken AC in October, but didn’t want to put a new one in until Spring.

    And I can’t kill mice. having a cat do that is one thing, but i can’t do it myself. I have live traps and the mice get kicked out by the river, but with as much gunk as there is in my apartment, they’re not all that motivated to go into the traps. I guess someday I might get motivated and clean out everything so the only food they’ll find is in the traps. but if i could do that, i wouldn’t have mice to begin with

  354. #360 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    keep in mind that this is the landlord who was trying to get me to spend all winter with a hole in my wall because he took out the broken AC in October, but didn’t want to put a new one in until Spring.

    Damn. Don’t you live up north where it’s devastatingly cold? My own landlord doesn’t necessarily fix things in a timely manner unless it’s costing him money (like a running toilet) or I freak out a bit at him, but he is working on replacing the windows now that I told him how much it cost me to heat the place to a very modest 64 Fahrenheit in the winter.

    I like my landlord because he’s nice about the important things. He doesn’t care that it looks like a tornado tore apart an archive inside my apartment, he’s unconcerned about holes in the walls, a couple of years ago I forgot to pay the rent one month and he just left a very nice message on my voice mail asking if I had paid it and he lost it or did I forget to pay it.

    I’ve had some nightmare landlords who complained if they came in to fix something and the place wasn’t cleaned up, or freaked out if rent was one day late even when the lease had a grace period of five days (I had to mail my rent at that time and it was hardly my fault that he moved, so it took a couple of days for my check to get forwarded).

  355. #361 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    Pygmy Loris @ 360:

    I’ve had some nightmare
    landlords

    I am so glad my landlord days are well behind me. I’ve had good ones, but more nightmare or indifferent ones.

  356. #362 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Caine,

    I am so glad my landlord days are well behind me.

    I really like being able to call someone else and say “the hot water heater quit working, someone needs to fix it” and then it gets fixed and I don’t have to pay anything! One day I want to own a home, but I have no idea when I’ll be able to do that, especially since I want some land to go along with it.

  357. #363 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    Pygmy Loris @ 362:

    I really like being able to call someone else and say “the hot water heater quit working, someone needs to fix it”

    It helps to have a partner/spouse who can do a lot of those things. I can do a lot of that sort of stuff myself. Still, having your own house does mean you have to do it or get it done, and there isn’t anyone to blame if stuff doesn’t get fixed. And naturally, shit always happens at the worst possible time.

  358. #364 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Cainee,

    I’m not unhandy, but cost is a big factor. I guess I’ve never been financially stable enough to have much of an “emergency fund” so knowing that if something in my home breaks, I don’t have to pay for it contributes to my peace of mind.

  359. #365 Jadehawk, OM
    February 26, 2010

    well, I’ll only have to live here for one more year. after that, we might just buy the sort of noisemaker that’s supposed to keep rodents from liking your place. and actually, if all our plans work out, we will be able to get a rodent-eating pet, instead. though my boyfriend is more partial to this than to a cat.

  360. #366 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    Pygmy Loris,

    Oh I understand fully. Whenever something does decide to break down in the house, it’s almost always the wrong season and at a time when money is a problem, to say the least. I’m still learning to think ahead in terms of house maintenance. I’m not that used to it (We’ve owned our place for almost 6 years now) and you can never be prepared for every eventuality. Owning your own place definitely has its downsides. I was 46.5 when we decided to buy, so we definitely waited a good long while.

  361. #367 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Jadehawk,

    Aww, that fox is so freaking cute! I’m a pet person in general, but I do love cats!

    Caine,

    Just remind yourself that you can paint the walls whatever color you want and hang pictures and such without complaints about holes :) Over the last few years I’ve realized that money is always an issue unless you’re independently wealthy, so I’m trying to make the best of it and pay off my debts before I plan anything new.

  362. #368 Blind Squirrel FCD
    February 26, 2010

    Do you suppose Patrica will see this when she gets home from her date? Not the onion!

    BS

  363. #369 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    Pygmy Loris @ 367:

    Just remind yourself that you can paint the walls whatever color you want and hang pictures and such without complaints about holes :)

    Oh, no problems there. I paint paintings directly on the walls in some rooms:

    http://moblog.net/view/157109/kitchen-bizarre

  364. #370 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Caine @ 369,

    I love that! Wow.

  365. #371 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 26, 2010

    Joke for Lynna, from Utah Phillips:

    I got good news and bad news.

    Bad news: The aliens have landed.

    Good news: They eat Mormons and piss gasoline.

  366. #372 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 26, 2010

    Hey

    Home owners v renters

    Stop derailing the thread, can we please return to the important discussion about Christian Bale’s nipples.

    Seriously though our tenancy laws in Australia are much different to what I seem to see as the norm in the US so generally it sucks to be a tenant. You do get good landlords but essentially it was the greatest day of my life when I stopped paying off someone else’s mortgage and started paying mine. Of course now I own investment properties so I think I’m the world’s greatest landlord.

  367. #373 strange gods before me ?
    February 26, 2010

    Thanks again to everyone who’s given their advice regarding my friend. I spent the afternoon with her, and she is feeling somewhat better lately, which is at least preferable to feeling somewhat worse. She has a high opinion of therapy, having had good experiences with it in the past (lucky!). I think she is just having a hard time finding the motivation to get started. I did learn who her health provider is, and I will start looking for a therapist and lower that hurdle for her. I cannot allow involuntary treatment, as I believe people have the right to end their own lives for their own reasons, but I will be looking into everything else recommended here.

    I am especially glad that folks have brought up the issue of heightened suicide risk near the beginning of therapy. I was aware of such risk near the beginning of antidepressant use, but I thought it was just a chemical issue limited to that context. I’ll warn her about that after we find a therapist she likes. She wants to live more than she wants to die, and her cry for help was explicit rather than implicit.

  368. #374 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    Pygmy Loris @ 370:

    I love that! Wow.

    Thank you! The fridge died not long after the paint job. I still have to do up the replacement fridge.

  369. #375 llewelly
    February 26, 2010

    Bales of Christian nipples? WTF? Is this like the hill of foreskins in the Old Testament?

  370. #376 strange gods before me ?
    February 26, 2010

    Goddammit. How the hell does that happen? I’ve changed my password; can any of you internet-knowledgeable people confirm that this should stop the problem occurring again?

    It may stop it this time, if you were a victim of simple phishing. If you have been infected with a virus, it won’t be enough.

    Regarding simple phishing, you can only understand the problem and be careful. I generally type out URLs myself every time I want to visit a site that has a user login, instead of following links or bookmarks. It isn’t a very big deal to type out “twitter.com” or “gmail.com” and you’ll get used to it. I notice also that Twitter has an SSL-encrypted login available at https://twitter.com/login but they don’t advertise it very well. This protects you more from man-in-the-middle attacks, though, which really aren’t related to your problem today. SSL is a side issue.

  371. #377 strange gods before me ?
    February 26, 2010

    But worse than simple phishing, you may instead have the Koobface virus, so just in case you’ll need to update your antivirus software if possible and run a thorough boot-time scan (if you can’t figure out how to do a boot-time scan, ask here and tell us which antivirus you’re using). For the future, you can probably protect yourself from Koobface through careful use of NoScript.

    In the long run, complain to Twitter that they haven’t implemented Extended Validation. Maybe you can start a Twitter campaign of angry users demanding EV.

  372. #378 maureen.brian#b5c92
    February 26, 2010

    Damn these time zones.

    Keep your eyes peeled during the next active period, Nerd. I have seen – just once and faintly – the Aurora from about 54 degrees N. A lack of light pollution helps.

    Tis Himself, did you get a chance to read Incredible Edible Todmorden? Not nagging, sir, just curious!

  373. #379 boygenius
    February 26, 2010

    Pygmy Loris and Caine,

    Regarding the renting vs. owning thing;

    After having rented 4-5 places and never getting my damage deposit refunded regardless of whether I damaged anything or not (in one place I refinished the hardwood floors, re-painted the entire unit (including cabinets) and replaced all the plumbing fixtures and still didn’t get my deposit back), I said “fuck it”.

    In my next apartment, I painted a four foot diameter Steal Your Face on the living room wall. Sure enough, when I moved out the landlord kept my security deposit to pay for re-painting the living room. Two months later, I was sitting in a club talking to some folks and they started raving about the apartment they just rented that had a “bitchin’ Steal Your Face” on the living room wall. Bastard didn’t even paint the wall, just kept my $800 and re-rented the place to some other Deadhead.

    I know that some landlords are fair (my father is one) but most are sketchy. And don’t even get me started about property management companies!

    BTW, Caine; you can come paint on my kitchen walls anytime! I own this house.

  374. #380 JeffreyD
    February 26, 2010

    Trying to get back into reading and responding. This place is still good therapy. Cast is off, family issues settled and able to travel, so plan to so do per below.

    Bits and pieces for now:

    Patricia, wonderful you have a date. Hope it is fun.

    Walton – hope you are still in bed at this point. In any case, returning to the UK to work on my books and there till summer. Once you finish finals, making a final offer to meet for a drink.

    Knockgroats – per above, returning to the mother country. Do you have any plans to visit the south or do I need to make the trek up the far north for a drink? Well, at least you have good malt up there.

    Dust – a wave and a hello and thank you.

    Quack – you do not make it to troll status, just a space filler.

    Strange gods – please keep us advised about your friend. Fingers crossed.

    Lynna – hope all goes well with you, let us know how things turn out with tests. Also, do not hesitate to ask for further aid.

    Credo elvem etiam vivere

    JeffreyD

  375. #381 Aquaria
    February 26, 2010

    After having rented 4-5 places and never getting my damage deposit refunded regardless of whether I damaged anything or not

    After having 11 apartments over 19 years, in 4 states, after moving all my things out and spending as many days as apartments touching up walls and scrubbing and mopping and vacuuming before turning over keys–

    I can say that I got exactly one deposit returned. The last one, here in San Antonio.

    I almost framed that check.

  376. #382 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    110 more comments overnight… I’ll start reading them soon. When I couldn’t sleep anymore, I got up, finished wiping the floor, and downloaded the Abydosaurus paper, which is open-access, all seven Supplementary Information files included! :-)

  377. #383 Carlie
    February 26, 2010

    My cat, having been raised in the cushy confines of home life, thinks that mice are cute little squeaky toys. She’s a little too old to catch them now, but she used to catch them, then carry them around a bit, then drop them and bat them around. Sometimes we’d wind up finding them dead later, but could never figure out if they had internal injuries or if she just scared them into having heart attacks. That was how we first found out we had them in our current house, in fact – we had some suspicions, but had never dealt with mice so weren’t sure. That is, not until she went trotting past with something in her mouth that made squeaky sounds. I am glad that she doesn’t eat them, because I don’t need random mouse leftover parts around. The husband once accidentally stepped on a mouse. That…wasn’t fun to clean up.

  378. #384 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    So, Patricia, how did it go?

    There …are …two lights!!!

    Please explain. No useful results on the 1st page of Google results.

    I suddenly have a strong urge to send David one of these

    :-D

    ‘Tis, at one time we had a cGMP trainer who had a photo of his ship at the North Pole. You do anything like that?

    Cyclic guanine monophosphate??? I only know cAMP. ~;-|

    Before our atheist friend can respond he is shocked almost beyond words when Richard Dawkins walks by. All he can do is point and say ?What?? When?!?? The guide laughs and says, ?Take a deep breath ? it?s no big deal. Richard is perfectly healthy and alive on earth. That?s God ? he just likes to pretend he?s Richard Dawkins.?

    Don?t know why this came to me today. . .

    I don’t quite understand it, but it sounds interesting…

    INCREDIBLY SECRET-BURN BEFORE READING

    :-D

    keep in mind that this is the landlord who was trying to get me to spend all winter with a hole in my wall because he took out the broken AC in October, but didn’t want to put a new one in until Spring.

    <headdesk>

    I guess someday I might get motivated and clean out everything so the only food they’ll find is in the traps. but if i could do that, i wouldn’t have mice to begin with

    I’ll just put it bluntly: what, actually, do you have a boyfriend for? The very least he could do would be to motivate you to clean the apartment together with him…

  379. #385 Alan B
    February 26, 2010

    #382

    Done the same this morning – not sure when I’ll get time to read them but they’re in the bag.

  380. #386 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Cyclic guanine monophosphate???

    No, current Good Manufacturing Processes. FDA/pharma speak. And the gotcha is in the current. That keeps changing.

  381. #387 aratina cage of the OM
    February 26, 2010

    My condolences to Walter Koenig who lost his son yesterday.

  382. #388 aratina cage of the OM
    February 26, 2010

    President Obama is actually going to have a face to face talk with secularists of the Secular Coalition for America. SCA’s bulletin here; news item here. It is times like this that make me realize how much better the Democrats are compared to Republicans and how important it is to not throw up my hands in disgust over all the political posturing (not that my vote has ever counted for anything as a Democrat in Republican lands so far for my entire life).

  383. #389 SteveV
    February 26, 2010

    Jadehawk OM #359
    Had a similar problem. A friend suggested I try chocolate as bait – worked!

  384. #390 Quackalicious
    February 26, 2010

    Great! I?m not a troll, and we prefer the term quackalicious to quack.
    In response to the beta blocker discussion, I realize its being used for the anxiety, but according to the Cochrane database, it?s not effective. Since it slows the heart, I?ve found it leads to fatigue and elderly patients tend to assume they are ?just getting old? rather than dealing with drug side effects. The fatigue makes it too difficult to think about activities.
    Here?s the Cochrane info: Expert Rev Neurother. 2008 Feb;8(2):235-57.
    Pharmacotherapy for social anxiety disorder: a systematic review.

  385. #391 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 26, 2010

    I?m not a troll,

    Another lie, you are just a woomeister troll. Nothing intelligent here, just idiocy. What a loser. You are nothing but a Qwack, Quack, Qvack. Get a real job that doesn’t involve conning people.

  386. #392 Epikt
    February 26, 2010

    Bride of Shrek OM:

    Out of curiousity though, isn’t there some other method apart from physically shovelling the stuff …hot water, flamethrowers, lots of dogs with full bladders urinating on the stuff?

    Snowblowers (it doesn’t count as “physically shovelling” if your back doesn’t ache afterwards). Ugly, noisy, smelly, but effective. Most fun on a gravel driveway. Will launch gravel (and cats, and small children) into the air.

  387. #393 Rorschach
    February 26, 2010

    My condolences to Walter Koenig who lost his son yesterday.

    You know, I looked at him on the news and thought “shit, we’re getting old” !

  388. #394 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    jeez with the real life shit.

    but: SNOWDAY!!!

    Morning-mood Dead (NSFJ)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6RNldWGm4

    that’s a lot of salt, which generally isn’t so nice for vegetation.

    Road salt is also turning out to be a big problem for amphibians.

    heated driveways. I don’t know what these cost to run

    Guy I knew in Boston had big plans for inventing a solar-powered driveway-heating system.

    working in a bar isn’t quite as fun as going to a bar

    But of course this depends completely on exactly which bars are being compared. Also varies somewhat night to night.

    mouse is stuck

    Warning: mice can jump much, much higher than you think they can!

    Bastard didn’t even paint the wall, just kept my $800 and re-rented the place to some other Deadhead.

    Ha!! Love it! Some of my deadheaded college buddies had a similar wall, but it was in opposite colors (i.e. green, black & orange for RW&B)…ow my eyez

    Cyclic guanine monophosphate???

    Ha! No, Nerd uses the same acronym (even capitalization convention) for something very different. But I am surprised at your evident surprise about cGMP sensu biochemico. Guanylate cyclase is very commonly used for all kinds of stuff: NO-induced vasodilation, for example (including erection), phototransduction for another. H,LMGIFY

    what, actually, do you have a boyfriend for?

    *shakes head slowly from side to side w/ wry grin*

    My condolences to Walter Koenig

    If only it was true that Walter Koenig read the Thread!

    28442

  389. #395 llewelly
    February 26, 2010

    David Marjanovi? | February 26, 2010 6:55 AM:

    There …are …two lights!!!

    Please explain. No useful results on the 1st page of Google results

    here or here and here.

    You needed to google “There … are … four … lights”.

  390. #396 aratina cage of the OM
    February 26, 2010

    You know, I looked at him on the news and thought “shit, we’re getting old” !

    Yeah, no kidding. *sigh*

    If only it was true that Walter Koenig read the Thread!

    It was as close as I could get in threadspace to the William Shatner subthread.

  391. #397 WowbaggerOM
    February 26, 2010

    Current show count: 15 – saw one wretched and one superb show this evening. The former a terrible production of The Servant of Two Masters; the latter a comedy troupe called The Sound and the Fury with their tribute to noir, Private Dick.

    Am trading comedy and theatre for rock music tomorrow; I’m skipping the Fringesanity and heading to Soundwave to see the likes of Placebo, Jane’s Addiction, Paramore, Jimmy Eat World and – best of all – Faith No More.

    They a) are an awesome band, and b) have an inspirational name.

  392. #398 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    Guanine monophosphate my ass! Would be guanosine monophosphate! <headdesk>

    Anyway, here’s a bit of non-Mormon madness. It’s non-religious madness, even (at least there’s no evidence that religion was involved, and no reason to think it was). I tried to find the Agence France Presse reportthis (in German) was based on, but I can’t find it at afp.com, and neither can Google. I found the original article in the Folha de São Paulo, but my reading comprehension of Portuguese isn’t that good (?never even tried to learn it?), so I’ll summarize the German third-hand report:

    In Ivinhema in Brasil, a woman was about to give birth and wanted a caesarean section. Instead of doing something, the two physicians started quarreling. They rolled on the floor together while the woman shouted at them to stop. After 1 1/2 hours, a third doctor came in to perform the section, but by then the baby had already been born dead (?the original seems to say that an emergency section was performed, but was too late). The husband says the baby had been healthy up to then (“minha filha estava saudabilíssima” in the original, which also names names). The police is investigating?

    “surreal e inimaginável” indeed!

  393. #399 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    btw, re cGMP, this is the mechanism by which Vi*gr* works

  394. #400 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    one of Bobby’s best IMO:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mke6YlGSFBU
    Donna-haters can fucking bite me

  395. #401 mattheath
    February 26, 2010

    @David Marjanovi?: The report in Portuguese is as you describe.

  396. #402 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    Warning: mice can jump much, much higher than you think they can!

    All else being equal, jumping height does not depend on absolute body size. It is directly proportional to leg length (itself proportional to body length) and to muscle cross-sectional area (itself proportional to body length2), and indirectly proportional to body mass (itself proportional to body mass3)? these factors cancel each other out.

    Of course, all else is never equal, but in terms of leg anatomy and the like, mice are probably better built for jumping from a stand than we are.

    But I am surprised at your evident surprise about cGMP sensu biochemico.

    In hindsight, so am I. I distinctly remember learning about its role in the vertebrate retina; I think I’ve even repeatedly lectured creationists about it right here on Pharyngula.

    here or here and here.

    Ah, thanks a lot. I’ll watch the videos later. :-)

    * * *

    I got an e-mail that looks like the usual 419 scam and was probably written by professional 419 scammers, but? it’s not a 419 scam.

    EVANGELIST MARY SIMPSON
    510 Trail One A9 STROUDSBURG
    PENNSYLVANIA 18360 USA.

    DEAR SIR/MADAM

    WE ARE HAITI CITIZENS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATE [sic] WHOM THEIR FAMILIES ARE AFFECTED BY THE RECENT EARTHQUAKE,WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO RAISE MONEY TO HELP THE HAITI CITIZENS WHO ARE WITHOUT FOODS,DRUG AND SHELTER,SO WE PLEAD THAT YOU SUPPORT US WITH WHAT EVER YOU CAN.ALL DONATIONS SHOULD BE SEND THROUGH WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER BECAUSE OF THE URGENT ATTENTION NEEDED.DO SEND IT TO THE INFORMATIONs BELOW;

    Name:Dennis Walter
    Address:18623 Ipava Avenue
    City:Lakeville
    State:Minnesota
    Zip code:55044
    Country:USA

    PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU FORWARD THE WESTERN UNION INFORMATION SUCH AS SENDERS NAME,AMOUNT SENT AND THE MTCN(10 digits).WE PRAY THAT ALMIGHTY GOD WILL BLESS YOU AS YOU ARE HELPING THE SUFFERING HAITI CITIZENS.

    EVANGELIST MARY SIMPSON(SECRETARY)

  397. #403 llewelly
    February 26, 2010

    Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 8:35 AM:

    btw, re cGMP, this is the mechanism by which V’ger works

    You know, every time someone tries to explain Star Trek I to me, it makes even less sense than before.

  398. #404 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    FYI if no one has seen the Ken Burns series on the National Parks that PBS is currently running with weekly installments, please take time to watch it.

    It’s fantastic. His Jazz series was my favorite and I haven’t seen the Baseball one yet (kicks self) but this one is high quality and has given me a new respect for some of the players in the creation of the National Parks system that I knew (John Muir, Ansel Adams, FDR, Theodore Roosevelt) and some who I didn’t (Harold LeClaire Ickes).

    Well worth the couple of hours a week that it is on.

  399. #405 SC OM
    February 26, 2010

    Oh, FFS. We had scary high winds last night, and I just looked out the window to find that a big chunk of fence blew off and smashed a dent in the rear door of my car. Damn it.

  400. #406 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    Oh and for Jazz fans (I’m looking at you Sven) Dave Holland is starting to release live shows from his website for a buck each. Not too shabby.

  401. #407 aratina cage of the OM
    February 26, 2010

    I’m skipping the Fringesanity and heading to Soundwave to see the likes of Placebo, Jane’s Addiction

    Say no more. *drool* For some reason, their music has grown on me to the point where I reflexively crank up the volume whenever they play on the radio. I would love to see them perform live.

  402. #408 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    Linky to the PBS National Parks show page.

  403. #409 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    Dave Holland is starting to release live shows from his website for a buck each.

    Say no more. *drool* For some reason, his music has grown on me to the point where I reflexively crank up the volume whenever I play him on the CD player. I would love to see him perform live.

  404. #410 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    Me too. His music is so new compared to a lot of jazz that’s out there.

  405. #411 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    That should have been, “Sounds so new”

    and I missed aratina’s post before yours….

  406. #412 CunningLingus
    February 26, 2010

    Stumbled across this awesome website/page.

    http://www.johnkyrk.com/evolution.swf

  407. #413 aratina cage of the OM
    February 26, 2010

    Have to admit that Dave Holland is pretty good too from the samplings. There is a free download of “Mr. B” offered at the top of the website linked to by the Rev.

  408. #414 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    And you can listen to that whole show there online for nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Bagel. Doughnut. Zip.

    Free as in Beer.

  409. #415 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    Oh and speaking of beer, anyone coming to Charleston this weekend?

  410. #416 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    First UPDATE of Year Two. What a pain in the ass with subThreads every other day. Can’t we all just shut up a little bit?

  411. #417 menckensghost
    February 26, 2010

    Hello, all.

    Longtime lurker, first-time poster from the same finishing school as ‘Tis and bullofthewoods. (My ride was SSBN 617). I like xkcd, college basketball, Brian Eno and bacon. Pleasedtameetcha.

  412. #418 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Jeffrey @380

    Lynna – hope all goes well with you, let us know how things turn out with tests. Also, do not hesitate to ask for further aid.

    Thanks for asking, Jeffrey. I was hoping to get images of pulsing arteries from the luscious Blake (Registered Cardio Sonographer) that I could put up for viewing as part of the announcement of the results. However, Luscious Blake has not come through with a CD, as promised. (I’ll call him today and ask if the digital files are forthcoming.) So, sorry to say, but here are boring, but reassuring results, with no pictures: The cardiologist reviewed the test and sent an analysis to my doctor, who then called me in and summarized the whole deal, “Your carotid arteries look really good.”

    This eliminates one possible cause for a brain-offline event (January 15th, for those not tracking Lynna’s medical history). The next step is to get a CT Angiography, with contrast, to eliminate other possibilities, like a brain tumor, or groups of neurons picketing for higher wages and increased oxygen. I have about half the cost of that test saved, and I also was able to pay for a visit to the doctor. I’m getting there, bit by bit.

    I think it was Jadehawk who postulated earlier that I could have the necessary tests and still not know what the hell is wrong with me. I guess I would prefer not to die from something preventable.

    I identified with Keith Olbermann’s rant about the health care system, and the idiotic opposition to reform.

    As for the joke up-thread about aliens eating mormons and pissing gasoline, my neurons LOLed … then they demanded coffee.

    Word of Wisdom: Pharyngula goes well with coffee in the morning and beer in the evening.

    Patricia in her burnished brass breastplate, riding a Harley … now that’s good stuff.

  413. #419 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    The more submariners the merrier.

  414. #420 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010
  415. #421 menckensghost
    February 26, 2010

    Sven @419/420:

    Namor is a great guy–he fended off an annoying Giant Sea Serpent and pulled us out of miles-deep marine trench one day, long story–but he needs to work on his interpersonal skills. (And don’t play poker with him.)

  416. #422 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    After having rented 4-5 places and never getting my damage deposit refunded regardless of whether I damaged anything or not (in one place I refinished the hardwood floors, re-painted the entire unit (including cabinets) and replaced all the plumbing fixtures and still didn’t get my deposit back), I said “fuck it”.

    I had a landlord once (many moons ago) who kept damage deposits as a matter of course. I didn’t realize he did that until after I had cleaned and polished until the apartment was in far better shape than when I had moved in. When I protested, he suggested that I could take him to small claims court, knowing that I couldn’t afford a lawyer nor the time to do so. Turns out that the scumbag landlord was a regular in court, kept a scumbag lawyer on his payroll and considered that the poor folk deserved whatever they got. He also thought he was enlightened, as in almost-a-guru, and that the very laws of nature supported him — which neatly explained all his unearned cash. The parting comment from this little, crowing rooster of a man was him telling me that I should be ashamed of myself for “playing the victim” and not realizing that “business is business”.

  417. #423 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Posted by: menckensghost | February 26, 2010 10:23 AM

    Hello, all.

    Longtime lurker, first-time poster from the same finishing school as ‘Tis and bullofthewoods. (My ride was SSBN 617). I like xkcd, college basketball, Brian Eno and bacon. Pleasedtameetcha.

    Damned good excuse to pull out some of my favorite Eno.

    Lay My Love

    St Elmo’s Fire

    Remake/Remodel

    Baby’s On Fire

  418. #424 SteveV
    February 26, 2010

    Miss M, a respectable atheist of a certain age, is, as I write, engaged in a sit-in, protesting the closure of a Day Care Centre founded by Catholic Nuns and supported by the faithful of Penzance.
    Oh, the ironies that Politics creates!

  419. #425 Matt Penfold
    February 26, 2010

    The parting comment from this little, crowing rooster of a man was him telling me that I should be ashamed of myself for “playing the victim” and not realizing that “business is business”.

    Tell me, did you turn his testicles into earrings, or just chuck them in the waste ?

  420. #426 menckensghost
    February 26, 2010

    Right on, Janine! Fripp’s work on “Baby’s On Fire” is my candidate for Greatest-Ever Guitar Solo.

  421. #427 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Sorry, menckensghost, I linked to 801. That is Phil Manzanera on guitar. I do hope it is satisfactory.

  422. #428 kiyaroru
    February 26, 2010

    Molly Ivins is dead?
    For three years?
    Fuck. I just started reading her!
    fukfuckfuck
    I wish I could do that HTML stuff.
    fuck

  423. #429 menckensghost
    February 26, 2010

    Mr. Manzanera will most definitely do.

  424. #430 boygenius
    February 26, 2010

    Donna-haters can fucking bite me

    Ha! I never understood the animosity some people have towards Donna. Sure, she was off-key on occasion but when she was good, she was very good.

    I saw her play a small club (Terrapin Station) in Boise last year with the Zen Tricksters backing her up. She can still sing the hell out of a song (although the between-song banter was a little godbotty).

    An aside; the club was having plumbing issues that night so the restrooms were out of order. Instead, there were two Porta-Potties out in the alley behind the building. Donna kinda threw a fit (though I don’t blame her)and demanded that one of them be reserved exclusively for the band only. So… long lines waiting for one Porta-Pottie that was standing right next to an empty, unused one.

  425. #431 Sili
    February 26, 2010

    Oh … so GMP isn’t Good Manufacturing Practise in this case … I was trying to figure out what the “c” stood for in this case.

    I’ve been reading to many job ads. Bugger.

    Welcome, menckensghost! Always good to see new faces in the Thread Everlasting.

    Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

  426. #432 Sili
    February 26, 2010

    oh …

    nevermind

    I really should read all the comments before commenting, but then I’d post even less than I do now.

    Thanks for the explanation, NoROM.

  427. #433 Jadehawk, OM
    February 26, 2010

    I’ll just put it bluntly: what, actually, do you have a boyfriend for? The very least he could do would be to motivate you to clean the apartment together with him…

    have I mentioned yet that he’s a redneck punk? have I also mentioned he currently works 70 hours a week?

    I have absolutely no desire to spend the one day a week we have together on cleaning.

    After having 11 apartments over 19 years, in 4 states, after moving all my things out and spending as many days as apartments touching up walls and scrubbing and mopping and vacuuming before turning over keys– I can say that I got exactly one deposit returned.

    yeah, I figured out that’s how it works after the 2nd apartment. now I don’t even bother cleaning when moving. this apartment has several dents in the walls, stained and dirty walls, bleach and other stains in the carpets, and all sorts of damage to the kitchen cabinets. and that’s precisely how the landlord is going to get it back. he can clean it all himself if he likes.

  428. #434 MrFire
    February 26, 2010

    Turns out that the scumbag landlord was a regular in court, kept a scumbag lawyer on his payroll and considered that the poor folk deserved whatever they got.

    Sheesh, what a jackoff.

    Near the end of one lease, I found a note under my door. My landlord claimed that I had made an oral contract, at the beginning of that year, to leave some number of days early (though he had no written proof, gave no reminders, nothing). He had tenants ready to move in that day. So my then-girlfriend and I had to pack up an entire apartment of shit and move it out to my dad’s place in less than 24h. He also took a chunk out of our security deposit, claiming costs for putting the new tenants up in a hotel. Fucking rat.

    The girlfriend and I were teetering at a breakup then, but our combined hatred of him helped keep the relationship sputtering for another two years.

  429. #435 Brownian, OM
    February 26, 2010

    The parting comment from this little, crowing rooster of a man was him telling me that I should be ashamed of myself for “playing the victim” and not realizing that “business is business”.

    Stories like this make me want to don a superhero outfit and wreak terrible vengeance upon the unrighteous. (I don’t because I find spandex unflattering.)

    I can say that I got exactly one deposit returned. The last one, here in San Antonio.

    I almost framed that check.

    Back in August I received my full damage deposit back for the first time in my life. I was worried about this one too, because the apartment had been bought by some company that seemed a little money-grubbing, and I was sure they were going to ding me for the mould and mildew in the bathroom (It had been there since before I’d moved in, thrived on bleach and other noxious cleaners, and had finally taken on the smirking attitude of a streetwise lichen–and y’all know what lichens are like.) I took a day and a half off of work and scrubbed that place as clean as I could, only to have the owner sweep in, take a three-second look around the place, and then interrogate me for leaving. Turns out they needed to renovate the suite anyway and I was one of those tenants who pays the rent, so she was very disappointed to see me go and happy to see there were no holes in the wall or anything. (Oh, and she didn’t know it but I’d stand next to an open window in my room to smoke pot, unlike some of my neighbours who thought the hallways should smell like hotboxing for everyone’s benefit.)

    But more often than not I get the situation where the building manager augments his or her income by charging outrageous cleaning fees on move-out. One BM complained that I’d left streaks on the windows and charged $100 to clean them for three hours. (A typical Edmonton 4-storey walk-up has 28 suites and three to four windows per suite depending on the number of bedrooms, so the only way it should take three hours is if you’re using David M’s tongue method, in which case I don’t expect to see a receipt for Windex on the bill.)

    Anyways, this last damage deposit actually came with a little note thanking me for being a model tenant. I almost cried.

    For strange gods,

    she has a high opinion of therapy, having had good experiences with it in the past (lucky!). I think she is just having a hard time finding the motivation to get started. I did learn who her health provider is, and I will start looking for a therapist and lower that hurdle for her.

    I have a little experience with this, being someone who’s struggled with low-level depression for most of my adult life and five years had an episode so severe it required four years of meds and group CBT.

    I am so glad she’s therapy-positive. It’s a hard road and by no means a magic bullet, but for most people therapy carries the best long-term prognosis. The motivation will be a factor, but you may be able to get the ball rolling by actually piling her in the car and bringing her to wherever she needs to go once she gives the okay. People with depression often have little interest in doing things for their own sakes but are very sensitive to the thought of burdening or disappointing others, which you can use to your advantage: if you think she’s likely to bail out, say something like “promise you’ll call on Fridays and tell me how your Thursday session went” or “promise you’ll call me for a ride if you don’t think you can manage the bus to the therapist’s” or whatever. Use your discretion.

    For Edmonton readers dealing with similar issues: most counselling and therapy services are not covered by Alberta Health & Wellness, but the University of Alberta Hospital psych department offers a whole host of outpatient treatment services that are covered. I’ve been through the process myself and have assisted a number of people as well, so I’m happy to offer more specific details on what to expect if anyone would like.

  430. #436 Matt Penfold
    February 26, 2010

    Here in the UK Landlords holding onto deposits when tenants left a property became such a problem the Government introduced a law requiring that the deposit be held by a third party, and that the Landlord could only gain access to all or part of the deposit on production of evidence of either damage to the property, or financial loss owing to the tenant breaking the terms of the letting agreement.

  431. #437 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    boygenius, Aquaria, Lynna and Brownian,

    One of the nice things about where I live is that it is not only a college town, but a college town where college students get free legal advice and help from the university. The main issue the university legal advisers deal with is landlords. As a consequence, most decent landlords around here give you a piece of paper to record all of the existing damage to an apartment when you move in, which they will then go over with you to make sure. Both you and the landlord get a copy of this document (I started supplementing mine with photos of damage 2 apartments ago). The landlords I’ve had also provided me with an itemized list about a month before move-out day of how much it would cost to clean/fix things that I had not done myself.

    As a result, I have received my entire deposit back from the last two places I rented. Out of the other four landlords I’ve had (two were in another town) I’ve been charged for oven cleaning because I simply forgot to do it, in my last town I didn’t receive my deposit back at all, but I had moved to another town so I just didn’t deal with it at all. The other landlord in my last town gave me the entire deposit back, too.

    What I learned is that if at all possible, do the last walk-through with the landlord. Have your copy of the pre-move-in damage report on you at the post-move-out walk-through. If they say you damaged something, argue. Have a lawyer you know on speed dial just in case.

  432. #438 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 26, 2010

    I’ve never lost a dime of my deposit to a landlord. The trick is to document, document, document. I take one bazillion digital images on move-in, and submit a letter to the landlord documenting the damage, and also mail a copy of the letter (with photos) to myself without opening it (the post-mark secures the date). I have had two landlords try to keep my deposit. I explained my system of documentation and the fact that in the state that these events took place (OH-IO!) a landlord sued for wrongful witholding could be charged up to three times the amount of the deposit. They both wrote checks immediately.

    The Seleucid King does not take shit from the man.

  433. #439 Pygmy Loris
    February 26, 2010

    Antiochus Epiphanes,

    Great plan! I hadn’t thought of mailing copies of the photos to myself. I usually have them printed at Wal-Mart where they print the date you had them processed on the back of the photo.

  434. #440 davem
    February 26, 2010

    Lynna @222:

    Keith Olbermann talks about “death panels”, the entire health care debacle, and his father’s experiences with the health care system. Olbermann swears at Sarah Palin, and generally makes a very strong statement. Long, but worth watching.

    Awesome. I don’t know how he held it together. I lost my dad in a slightly similar situation last year, and I certainly couldn’t have finished that script. Thankfully, the NHS and the Hospice movement here in the UK did a wonderful job. I can’t imagine what it would have been like being asked for money.

  435. #441 windy
    February 26, 2010

    but: SNOWDAY!!!

    Yes it’s laying on a bit thick here, too. But I don’t think we get actual snow days.

    Walter Koenig!

  436. #442 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Ah, I see up-thread that people smarter than I am simply assumed from the start that the landlord-and-renter relationship would be adversarial. And they took precautions. I, on the other hand, assumed that my having to clean the apartment, removing years of filth, before I could even move in, and then leaving it in excellent condition would earn me gold stars.

    davem @440, yes! Olbermann nailed it and he nailed it perfectly. A mix of hard facts and personal experience. I am one of those people who does have to worry about money while in the throes of the stress caused by illness. If you are one month late on a payment, most providers will simply send a collection agency after you. They won’t be quite that cruel themselves, but they will hire someone else to be cruel for them. Hence the huge number of bankruptcies in the USA caused by medical expenses.

  437. #443 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    Nada. Zero. Zilch. Bagel. Doughnut. Zip.

    :-D

    Does “zilch” actually mean anything?

    I had a landlord once (many moons ago) who kept damage deposits as a matter of course.

    Are there enough victims for a class-action lawsuit??

    he currently works 70 hours a week [?] the one day a week we have together

    :-S

    I retract everything and express my condolences to both of you.

  438. #444 Brownian, OM
    February 26, 2010

    We do the walkthrough (inspection report) on moving in and moving out too. It’s better in the age of digital cameras than it was when I first moved out of Chez Mom & Dad, but I’ve still encountered landlords and building managers who’ve said things during the move in inspection like, “Oh, that little mark? That’s nothing. Look, the more anal you are filling this out now, the harder the landlord is gonna be on inspection when you move out.” It’s an easy enough ruse to see through now, but this is also a college town and I shudder to think of the number of young and international students who get screwed because they don’t know the culture or their rights. I’ve taken foreign students apartment hunting, mostly because many landlords won’t even show you a suite for rent if you’ve got an African accent, even if you offer to pay a year’s worth of rent in cash up front. I feel for many landlords who have to deal with abusive, non-paying tenants who understand the law well enough to know how to effectively squat without getting legally evicted, but the power is more often in the hands of the owners.

  439. #445 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 26, 2010

    Wow, now I’m all impressed with myself. Joe and I have had every cleaning & security deposit refunded since I met him. The landlord of the ap’t he had when (and where) we met in 1973 needed some courtly persuasion, but you don’t need a lawyer for small-claims court here in California.

    It was an adventure, kinda, involving me as process server (since the LL didn’t recognize me and I had no formal connection to the suit) and a trip down to his house in San Lorenzo in a huge old gas-hog in the times of alternate-days gas-rationing. LL was in the habit of making a fast sweep of the place to collect rent checks and, if anyone had a complaint (e.g. the guy who’d fallen through the rotten upstairs deck), why, LL’s wife waiting for him out there in the car would suddenly go into labor and he’s have to rushoff’byenow. I swear that woman must’ve been stuffing Junior back up there every month.

    She was still pregnant when I put on my innocent face and walked up to their car with the summons. Such an innocent face that he just rolled down the window and took the “something for you” from my hand.

    The only real complaint he managed to write down for the court was “having to scrub cat smudge from outside wall under window.” The judge actually snickered. Joe and roomie got their money back.

    There’s a law here now that landlords must pay interest on tenants’ deposits every year, btw. Ain’t much but it helps keep them honest-ish.

    Ron Sullivan
    http://toad.faultline.org

  440. #446 Caine
    February 26, 2010

    boygenius @ 379:

    In my next apartment, I painted a four foot diameter Steal Your Face on the living room wall. Sure enough, when I moved out the landlord kept my security deposit to pay for re-painting the living room. Two months later, I was sitting in a club talking to some folks and they started raving about the apartment they just rented that had a “bitchin’ Steal Your Face” on the living room wall. Bastard didn’t even paint the wall, just kept my $800 and re-rented the place to some other Deadhead.

    Something similar happened to me once. A duplex I rented had a double door closet in the living room. I painted a section of weeping willow on the doors, spanned the whole thing. People used to see it through the window and compliment me all the time. When the landlord saw it, he bitched, moaned and complained. I shrugged. When it was time for me to move out, I offered to pay him the cost of the doors, I wanted to take them with me. He refused, then complained about having to have them sanded and repainted because he wouldn’t be able to rent until he did. I found out later he doubled the rent for the next people because of the doors and the kitchen. (I had custom painted the kitchen, and put up quotations all over the walls and cupboards.) Asshole.

    BTW, Caine; you can come paint on my kitchen walls anytime! I own this house.

    Hee. Thank you! I painted larger than life naked wimmin on my husband’s office walls. It was interesting, taking people on house tours not long after we moved in. ;D

  441. #447 Brownian, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Does “zilch” actually mean anything?

    No, nothing.

  442. #448 MrFire
    February 26, 2010

    I have a little experience with this, being someone who’s struggled with low-level depression for most of my adult life and five years had an episode so severe it required four years of meds and group CBT.

    Please tell me that was five years ago and not for five years.

    What kinds of CBT exercises were most helpful to you, if you don’t mind me asking?

  443. #449 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Concern about the University of Wyoming Geological Museum has been voiced on Pharyngula before (especially galling was the comparison of funding for Ken Ham’s Creation Museum, which is not even a real museum, with the lack of funding for the Geological Museum). Here’s an update on the status of the Geological Museum:

    When we emailed you in December, we were excited to report the transformative gift by Brainerd and Anne Mears to the University of Wyoming Geological Museum. Thankfully, that gift was matched by Wyoming state matching funds, and the fund now totals $1.4 million.
         Another fund was created in 2009?the Geological Museum S. H. Knight Memorial Fund. $74,000 has been raised to date, and this amount is now also eligible for matching funds. ?If we can develop an endowment of about $2.5 million,? says Art Snoke, UW Geology and Geophysics Department Head, ?then the Geological Museum can have a yearly operating budget of about $100,000.? The hiring of professional personnel, the renovation of displays, and the construction of new displays all hinge on private fundraising and the resulting matching funds in order to successfully reinvent the museum. If we don?t reach this goal, the museum may be hampered by limited hours, antiquated displays, and an undersized staff.
         This is where you come in. Your support can make this venerable geological museum a success?consider giving to the Samuel H. Knight Memorial Endowment. With your help, all things are possible. To donate to this fund, go online to http://www.uwyo.edu/giveonlione or contact Jane Barghothi, Major Gift Officer at the University of Wyoming Foundation, at (307) 766-1803 or jbarghot@uwyo.edu.

  444. #450 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    Walter Koenig!

    hee.

    Walt’s a pal of one of my ex-wives.
    [/kw*k][if Kw*k had an ex-wife][let alone 2 of 'em]

  445. #451 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 26, 2010

    Huge sauropod skull found!!!
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100224-new-giant-dinosaur-species-skulls-utah/

    Which brings up a question (where’s Lynna). I might sound a bit ignorant here, I had thought that BYU is Mormon college and that many Mormons reject ToE, but I’m surprise to find they have a palenotology department. Why is that?

  446. #452 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 26, 2010

    Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu &cetera…
    It may come as a surprise but there are more than a few good evolutionary biologists at BYU, and at least two that I know of are Mormon.

  447. #453 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010
    Does “zilch” actually mean anything?

    No, nothing.

    whew that almost had my office mates checking on me

  448. #454 JeffreyD
    February 26, 2010

    lynna at #418 – Thanks for the update. You have my email, write if you need anything.

    Strange gods, thanks for the update on your friend.

    Credo elvem etiam vivere.

  449. #455 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 26, 2010

    It may come as a surprise but there are more than a few good evolutionary biologists at BYU, and at least two that I know of are Mormon.

    Actually, it shouldn’t have come to a surprise to me. I’m over-generalizing things. headdesk

  450. #456 Brownian, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Please tell me that was five years ago and not for five years.

    Both, actually. An unhealthy long-term relationship that I still don’t understand–though I think I agree with friends who think I was being emotionally abused–ended just over five years ago, and the breakup devastated me. For four years I was on meds and being treated. This most recent October marked the one-year anniversary of my being out of therapy and off SSRIs.

    What kinds of CBT exercises were most helpful to you, if you don’t mind me asking.

    As for exercises, we didn’t do any. We’d just talk about whatever, and the idea was that through interacting in that setting people would naturally start repeating the behaviours that were causing the problems, which could then be identified, the root causes understood, and the pattern slowly broken. We’d meet once a week for 2.5 hours under the guidance of a therapist. Usually someone would start off by talking about something that had happened over the week and everybody would discuss it. It was a strange process, unlike anything else I’ve encountered. One of the first things newcomers to the group would learn is not to try to diffuse tension. If someone was on the verge of tears, not only would you not try to lighten the atmosphere with a joke (one of my mechanisms) or words of comfort, but you’d actually pick at them until they broke down, if you could. As cheesy as it sounds, this scene with Matt Damon and Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting shows the type of thing you’d actively try to achieve. Generally, the less comfortable you felt in any given session, the more likely you were doing good work.

    The first signs of improvement weren’t immediately obvious. I didn’t feel either my anxiety or depression actually lessen, but I started to notice I was walking a little more confidently without thinking about it. Or I’d I have some sort of interaction with a friend or girlfriend in which my reaction was very normal and appropriate, and later it would occur to me that the same interaction five years ago would have sent me spiraling into feelings of worthlessness, or whatever.

    What was especially difficult for me was in accepting and dealing with emotion. I tend to over-intellectualise things, and could easily ferret out and understand how some certain behaviour I engage in was related to some traumatic pattern of events in my childhood, but the thing that still gives me trouble is feeling sad over those events, grieving and moving on. If I ever completely figure it out, I’ll be sure to let you all know.

  451. #457 SteveV
    February 26, 2010
  452. #458 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Pikachu @451, The question of BYU and the Theory of Evolution cannot be clearly answered. This is because one of the strategies of the General Authority and of The First Presidency is to present such a blurred picture of mormon doctrine and theology that most people give up and just “allow the Holy Spirit” to guide them. This leaves the geriatric leaders free to be expedient when it comes to earning money, rules of tithing, rules of behavior, accepting the conclusions of science (or not), and pretending to be knowledgeable.

    A couple of decades ago, leaders were more willing to make definitive statements. And even further back in time, especially in Brigham Young’s time, scoffing at the Theory of Evolution was the norm.

    As far as the actual students and professors go, I can give you one telling detail: A geology student goes from geology class to religion class. He finds the two conflict when it comes to a description of reality. He questions his professor of geology, and the professor says (paraphrasing here), “I teach my subject and stay out of their way.”

    Here are a few comments on the subject from Steve Benson:

    As a BYU undergraduate over 20 years ago, I decided to undertake a comprehensive research paper on the Mormon Church?s official position on the theory of organic evolution.
         During the lengthy period of my studies, I concluded that the Church?s stance on the theory of organic evolution was confused, contradictory, unreasonable, unscientific and uninspired.
         While doing research for the paper, I spoke and/or corresponded directly with Mormon Church President Spencer W. Kimball, my grandfather and President of the Quorum of the Twelve Ezra Taft Benson, LDS Apostles Mark E. Petersen and Bruce R. McConkie, and Church Coordinator of Correlation Roy Doxey, as well as with a variety of campus religious and science professors.
         By way of education, I also took university classes in various scientific disciplines, including zoology, geology, sociobiology, astronomy and meteorology, as well as several courses in religious instruction, focusing particular attention on the Book of Mormon….
         My grandfather, as well as my father, were not pleased with the direction my research was headed and tried desperately to halt it, or at least change its focus.
         They even attempted to dissuade me from finishing the paper. Failing that, they applied pressure (also unsuccessfully) on me to allow my grandfather, my father Mark Benson, my BYU Book of Mormon instructing-uncle Reed Benson and/or Apostle McConkie to preview and critique my preliminary findings before eventual submission to my professors….
         No doubt, my father wrote the letter out of genuine love and concern, with what he felt were my best interests at heart. Unfortunately, he sought to accomplish his goal of controlling the outcome of my research efforts through strong-arm tactics. Those tactics included:
    –demanding unswerving obedience to Church authority
    –attacking scientific inquiry and the motives of scientists
    –questioning the character of intellectuals
    –warning against the loss of personal testimony
    –and dangling the specter of eternal condemnation for failure to follow the dictates of Mormonism … [Benson inserts here the letter from his father, which includes many comments from many mormon Apostles, plus mind-numbing scripture-quoting]
    [excerpt]:
    the First Presidency of the Church elaborated by stating: ?It is held by some that Adam wasn?t the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creations. These however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was ?the first man of all men? (Moses 1: 34), and we are therefore duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race.? (Improvement Era 13: 75-81, November 1909)
         ?To my knowledge this statement of the First Presidency has never been rescinded and is the last official position of the Church on evolution and the origin of man. Moreover, there are ?living? Prophets, Seers and Revelators today that have been outspoken in their support in this position (Notably President Benson, Elder Petersen and Elder McConkie and all of the Council of the Twelve). To my knowledge, there is no living Prophet, Seer and Revelator who has taken exception to it. The living Prophets are more important to us today than the dead Prophets, and without a statement from President Kimball to the contrary and with three present members of the Twelve in visible support of it, it seems to me the statement of President Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder and Anthon A. Lund is authoritative and represents the official position of the Church….
         NEVER TRUST A SCIENTIST I would remind you again of the words of Elder John A. Widtsoe, ?The doctrine of the common origin of life on earth is but a scientific theory and should be viewed as such.

         On September 9th, 1981, my father wrote me a follow-up letter, …The letter was printed on the letterhead of Cleon Skousen?s right-wing ?Freemen Institute,? for whom my father worked as a vice-president. … ?Grandpa:[Prophet Ezra Taft Benson] ?Write nothing that will diminish faith and testimony.?…

    For Steve Benson’s more complete presentation, see http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon173.htm
    And here is another take on the troubled interaction of BYU with the science of biology: http://www.exmormon.org/whylft35.htm

    There’s still a large and active contingent of mormons who are young earthers. One of their current heroes is Rodney Meldrum. We have discussed Meldrum’s dishonest “documentary” before: See this comment

    And also see comment #106 on the same thread linked above. That was the thread in which we also discussed Josh the geologists toenails and the injuries thereto — so in case you missed that fascinating discussion…

  453. #459 cicely
    February 26, 2010

    llewelly:

    You know, every time someone tries to explain Star Trek I to me, it makes even less sense than before.

    Ah. Easy explanation: there were a whole lot of Star Trek junkies jonesing for a fix. That’s money!!! So, buff up the ol’ Enterprise, give an old, used episode plot a quick lick of paint, dry out the actors, and there ya go.

    It may help to think of it as a gold-plated dog-turd.

    And I was one of the junkies who paid to see it. Twice.

  454. #460 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    The utterly unsurprising truth about Abydosaurus, as acknowledged in the comments by one of the authors.

  455. #461 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
    February 26, 2010

    SteveV, sex and drugs and rock and roll is all me brain and body needs. Favored.

  456. #462 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    The comment to which David M. refers @460:

    As one of the authors on the paper describing Abydosaurus, I want to say that this is the finest review of a scientific paper I have ever seen. I wish I had realized the truth of the specimen before devoting so much of my scientific career to it.
         The demonic paper is freely available at http://www.springerlink.com/content/lpn30h8tx2231223/fulltext.pdf
         Dan Chure

  457. #463 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    And here is the review to which Dan Chure refers in the blockquote @462, and to which David M. refers as the “utterly unsurprising truth”

    Satan is up to his same-old wicked deceptions! It’s well known that the Evil One loves to scatter “fossils” across the land to fool man, and he’s done it once again. This time, Satan put the “dinosaur” bones right where the scientists were looking, covering them with extra-hard rocks to make them all the more tantalizing, and even played into their desire for “transitional” species. And the gullible scientists, of course, believed it all and naively declared the “bones” to be millions of years old, despite the Word of God in Genesis.

  458. #464 Blind Squirrel FCD
    February 26, 2010

    This is odd. Greg Laden’s blog doesn’t link to Pharyngula in his blog roll. Am I missing something?

    BS

  459. #465 davem
    February 26, 2010

    This is odd. Greg Laden’s blog doesn’t link to Pharyngula in his blog roll. Am I missing something?

    His apology to Salty?

  460. #466 Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.
    February 26, 2010

    The utterly unsurprising truth about Abydosaurus, as acknowledged in the comments by one of the authors.

    Oh, can we discredit all those fossils found in China as “Maoist” propaganda?

  461. #467 llewelly
    February 26, 2010

    I wish I could do that HTML stuff.
    fuck

    Bold:

    <b>FUCK</b>

    FUCK

    In color:

    <span style=”color: #ff0000″>FUCK</span>

    FUCK

    In a large font:

    <span style=”font-size:300%”>FUCK</span>

    FUCK

    In bold, with color and large font:

    <span style=”font-size:300%” ><span style=”color: #ff0000″><b>FUCK</b></span></span>

    FUCK

  462. #468 llewelly
    February 26, 2010

    Oh, can we discredit all those fossils found in China as “Maoist” propaganda?

    Don’t you know Mao put all those fossils underground to deceive naive Western scientists? I swear, if it wasn’t for cultural relativism, that would be obvious to everyone.

  463. #469 David Marjanovi?
    February 26, 2010

    It has occasionally been mentioned that the current lack of creationists cyber-here, caused by obligatory registration, has made this a more boring place. I happened to find this comment again and am severely tempted to accept the offer…

    Shortly thereafter, I was informed that my epic compilation of New Testament contradictions from the two lists at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com had received a refutation (pdf linked to from here). I said I would “check it out sometime” and never have. I have now finally downloaded the pdf, took a short look, and already found a few mistakes, arguments from ignorance, and arguments from assumption. I’m itching to post a rebuttal. But this whole thing is so long I have no idea when I could find the time for it… perhaps in May… almost certainly not this weekend… :-(

    Or should I try it piecemeal?

    In color:

    Instead of spelling out the hexadecimal number, you can in this case just say “red” (without “#” in front). Of course this gives you access to a much smaller palette, but it’s a lot easier to remember :-)

  464. #470 Walton
    February 26, 2010

    It has occasionally been mentioned that the current lack of creationists cyber-here, caused by obligatory registration, has made this a more boring place.

    Are creationists generally incapable of figuring out how to create a TypePad account and log in?

  465. #471 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    Half step, Mississippi uptown

    toodelooo

  466. #472 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    “What’s the entry fee?” I asked the desk-man.

    “Two fifty,” he said.

    “What if I told you I had a Vincent Black Shadow?”

    He stared up at me, saying nothing, not friendly. I noticed he was wearing a .38 revolver on his belt. “Forget it,” I said. “My driver’s sick anyway.”

    His eyes narrowed. “Your driver ain’t the only one sick around here, buddy.”

    “He has a bone in his throat,” I said.

    “What?”

    The man was getting ugly, but suddenly his eyes switched away. He was staring at something else . . .

    My attorney; no longer wearing his Danish sunglasses, no longer wearing his Acapulco shirt . . . a very crazy looking person, half-naked and breathing heavily.

    “What’s the trouble here?” he croaked. “This man is my client. Are you prepared to go to court?”

    I grabbed his shoulder and gently spun him around. “Never mind,” I said. “It’s the Black Shadow — they won’t accept it.”

    “Wait a minute!” he shouted. “What do you mean, they won’t accept it? Have you made a deal with these pigs?”

    “Certainly not,” I said, pushing him along toward the gate. “But you notice they’re all armed. We’re the only people here without guns. Can’t you hear that shooting over there?”

  467. #473 Carlie
    February 26, 2010

    Are creationists generally incapable of figuring out how to create a TypePad account and log in?

    It stops the drive-bys; they have to really want it. The lazy ones just pass it by, looking for another easier target to crash.

  468. #474 Walton
    February 26, 2010

    SC @#519 from the last subThread (sorry for late reply):

    Moreover, the system is fundamentally wrong and undemocratic – why should communities, as part of the world, not decide economic matters like they do political (in theory)?

    This, I think, is at the crux of our ideological disagreement.

    In the end, people produce different amounts of wealth. Some people have more skill, talent and education than others. And people who are successful seek to pass on to their children whatever advantages they have gained in life. People are, in short, naturally unequal. I presume you wouldn’t disagree with this, since it’s plain fact.

    With this in mind, I do not think that wealth automatically belongs to the whole community. Some wealth does, but not all. A person who produces wealth owes a certain amount to the social infrastructure that allowed her or him to produce that wealth: education, police protection, transport infrastructure, the courts, and so on. And it is right that individuals should pay reasonable taxes for the upkeep of that infrastructure. But this does not mean that all the wealth a person produces belongs to the community.

    Of course, it is ultimately up to the community, as a whole, to delineate property rights and the rules governing contracts and transactions – to decide who owns what, and how they may dispose of it. But I would argue that, in granting such rights, the community should allow productive individuals the freedom, within certain limits, to enjoy the fruits of their labours. In the end, humans are largely self-interested creatures; in order to ensure continued productivity, and consequent wealth-creation, we need to have a society in which more productive people enjoy more wealth and reward.

    This doesn’t mean that the current capitalist order necessarily serves this goal. Land ownership in much of the world, for instance, has its historic roots in various waves of historic land theft and violent coercion (as you have pointed out, correctly, on many occasions), and there is therefore a strong argument, for instance, for high inheritance taxes and duties on land, to redistribute the benefits of land to the whole community. But there is a big difference between land, which is not produced through human effort, and those goods and services which are produced through human effort. The latter, I would suggest, should be commodities sold for the benefit of those who produce them.

  469. #475 Dust
    February 26, 2010

    Strange Gods, I would like to second Jeffery D on the thanks for the update on your friend.

    When I needed a mental health provider for a depression a few years ago I went to my insurance website and printed out their lists of care givers and took the list to my GP and said “Who on this list is worthwhile?” and she gave me some suggestions.

    But otherwise, I was stumped on how to find one. Any other suggestions for finding good mental health providers in the USA?

  470. #476 WowbaggerOM
    February 26, 2010

    I miss Hunter.

  471. #477 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 26, 2010

    me too

    My cousin who lives in Aspen was at the funeral/explosion/celebration. I wanted to be there, but couldn’t swing it.

  472. #478 Bobber
    February 26, 2010

    I have no intention of butting in to this conversation, but I just wanted to interject the following as food for thought.

    Walton said:

    In the end, people produce different amounts of wealth.

    Define “produce”. Define “wealth”. Take into account what these things mean in a village where there is not much in the way of cash. How would, say, the friends I made among the indigenous population of Guatemala define those terms, and how might they be different/similar to your own?

    Some people have more skill, talent and education than others.

    This, too, is relative to circumstances. Is the stock trader more skilled, talented, and educated than his mechanic? Conventional wisdom would say yes, and certainly the salary differential would seem to indicate which position is the more valuable. But if the stock trader’s job depended upon him getting to work every day on time, and his car broke down…

    There’s playing within the rules of the game, and then there’s understanding that the rules of the game have very little bearing to anything more than a contrived reality, established by the rulesmakers themselves. And how did they get to establish the rules? “He who has the gold…”

    And people who are successful seek to pass on to their children whatever advantages they have gained in life.

    Would it not be nobler to pass on to their society whatever advantages they have gained in life?

    People are, in short, naturally unequal.

    People are naturally different. That does not render them unequal, in any way that should matter.

    Just throwing out my two cents. Just thinking aloud.

  473. #479 Walton
    February 26, 2010

    Bobber: Feel free to participate; conversations on the endless thread are hardly “private”. I’ll reply to you in the morning, as it’s 2am here and I’m trying to force myself to read just a few more pages of my criminology textbook before going to bed. :-)

  474. #480 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 26, 2010

    Blind Squirrel – Thanks for the link to the chicken sweaters, what a group of kind hearted knitters!

    Actually, y’ll my date is Saturday. If any of you Oregon or Washington pharyngulites will be at the Portland Home & Garden Show I’d be happy to meet you there. *back to polishing up the bosoms*

  475. #481 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 26, 2010

    Oh, Patricia, it is good to see you! Many of us were wondering how you were. Here’s to a fabulous date tomorrow.

    xxxoooo

    Josh

  476. #482 frankosaurus
    February 26, 2010

    walton, just want to say that there’s absolutely no benefit to reading at 2am. Unless you have a gun to your head, it’s a bad habit to get into

  477. #483 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 26, 2010

    Thanks Josh. Janine checks on me when I fall into that black hole of grief. I owe her a tango dip and a kiss. ;)

  478. #484 strange gods before me ?
    February 26, 2010

    Francosaurus. No one wants to hear your opinions. Go away.

  479. #485 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 26, 2010

    sgbm, that’s “fuckasaurus,” don’t forget.

  480. #486 Jadehawk, OM
    February 26, 2010

    fuckosaurus, no one here cares about your anti-nightowl sentiments. as a matter of fact, the middle of the night is the only sensible time to try to read anything without distractions.

  481. #487 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 26, 2010

    the middle of the night is the only sensible time to try to read anything without distractions.

    Thank you, sistah. Can I get a amen up in this piece?

  482. #488 SC OM
    February 26, 2010

    sgbm, that’s “fuckasaurus,” don’t forget.

    But isn’t he a homophobe?* If so, fitting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Spain#Repression_under_Franco.27s_regime

    (That’s not even a tiny portion of the horror.)

    *Am I confusing him with someone else?

  483. #489 strange gods before me ?
    February 26, 2010

    But isn’t he a homophobe?

    All signs point to yes:

    Multiculturalism, multi-orientationism, multi-everything is inherently self-contradictory, for to the extent that “equality” is a value above all else, we recognize that the US would be quite the same country as if it were 60% latino, 30% black, and 50% gay. But of course it would be an enormously different country that most of us would be unhappy with.

  484. #490 strange gods before me ?
    February 26, 2010

    But there is a big difference between land, which is not produced through human effort, and those goods and services which are produced through human effort. The latter, I would suggest, should be commodities sold for the benefit of those who produce them.

    Comrade, wouldn’t you agree that worker-owned cooperatives — of the type that exist now even in capitalist countries, where only the workers at a particular business own the business, not a universally-owned dictatorship of the proletariat — meet this requirement?

    And wouldn’t you agree that to the extent self-interest can be harnessed to organize commerce, such cooperatives function efficiently?

    (Perhaps even more efficiently, since in comparison with a sole proprietorship, a greater number of people at the business are being rewarded with a larger proportion of the value they created through their labor?)

  485. #491 Jadehawk, OM
    February 26, 2010

    It has occasionally been mentioned that the current lack of creationists cyber-here, caused by obligatory registration, has made this a more boring place. I happened to find this comment again and am severely tempted to accept the offer…

    mmmm….. roleplay…..

  486. #492 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 26, 2010

    No trolls?

    Surely we can’t have eaten them all. *snort*

  487. #493 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 26, 2010

    No trolls?

    Surely we can’t have eaten them all.

    .. well for a while there I was keeping one in a box under my bed so I could get it out every now and again and poke it for amusement but PETA got word of it and I was forced to release it back into the wild.

    Weirdly on it’s way out the door it stole a camera.

  488. #494 frankosaurus
    February 26, 2010

    Geez, do you really dispute the value of a good night’s sleep?

    and thanks for digging that up, strange gods. Is this going to be another one of your sulk sessions?

  489. #495 Jadehawk, OM
    February 26, 2010

    I dispute you anti-nightowl assumption that people who read at night don’t get “a good night’s(!) sleep”.

  490. #496 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 26, 2010

    Bride are you going to the atheist meeting down your way?

  491. #497 frankosaurus
    February 26, 2010

    Roger that!

  492. #498 Bride of Shrek OM
    February 26, 2010

    Sure am Patricia

    I’m expecting a good old fashioned, skirt-twirling time joined by Wowbagger, Rorscach, Cath the Canberra Cook and Deb in Oz plus a multitude of others ( 67 for dinner to be exact but many more at the drinks planned for Friday arvo)

  493. #499 bullofthewoods
    February 26, 2010

    menckensghost@417.Welcome, it’s always good to meet a fellow atheist and bubblehead.I mostly lurk because anything I usually think to say is already covered by those who are far more eloquent than I.

  494. #500 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 26, 2010

    Geez, do you really dispute the value of a good night’s sleep?

    and thanks for digging that up, strange gods. Is this going to be another one of your sulk sessions?

    Oy. Don’t you get it? No one here cares about a thing you say. Be gone before someone drops a house(or a ton of bacon) on you.

  495. #501 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    ‘Tis Himself, I’ll thank you here for your short comment (#57)on the thread that offered Congratulations to Chris Mooney.

    Thank you, Sastra, Paul W, and Lynna for your comments and quotes on neuroscience. That’s much more interesting, to me at least, than some faitheist selling his soul for $15K.

    Those were my thoughts after I’d enjoyed comments from Paul W. and Sastra. Here was another post from PZ documenting the kind of sloppy thinking that makes one despair, and then the whole discussion was turned into a thread that was not only worthwhile, but positively enlightening.

  496. #502 Sven DiMilo
    February 26, 2010

    The International Journal of Thread Studies has finally published posted its gala special-issue Threadiversary Retrospective.

  497. #503 Josh, Official SpokesGay
    February 26, 2010

    Because I’m very, very naughty, here’s the comment I left at Chris Mooney’s blog. It was civil, no? :

    Congratulations on your being awarded the Templeton Fellowship for journalism, Chris. Are you going to announce it here?

    /curtsy

  498. #504 Lynna, OM
    February 26, 2010

    Sven @502: The Threadiversary Retrospective is fucking beautiful, Sven. I love both the graphs and your commentary. You have done us proud.

  499. #505 Hekuni Cat
    February 26, 2010

    Sven -

    I second, Lynna OM. Your analysis, commentary, and graphs are simply wonderful.

  500. #506 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    I miss Hunter.

    Who ?

    Actually, that reminds me, where’s Dana Hunter the Tequila Lady ?

    And certain Assistant Professors have some explaining regarding their time management to do !!
    :D

  501. #507 Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM
    February 27, 2010

    Oh, good Bride. Would you do me a favor?

    Please goose Wowbagger in a manner that raises him about 1/2″ off the floor, and tell him it’s from me. Thanks, I’ll owe you one. ;)

  502. #508 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    Sigh. Self described leader of the Aryan Nations, Paul R Mullet, has announced the group’s intentions to purchase property in John Day, OR to establish a headquarters and training facility.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704625004575090473593719004.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5

    While I would be glad to have them out of Idaho, if they move to John Day they’ll actually be closer to me than if they stay in Coeur d’Alene. Luckily, the locals in John Day are putting up a fuss.

    http://www.krem.com/home/Oregonians-protest-North-Idaho-white-supremacists-in-Oregon-85548962.html

    Fuckin’ Nazi fucks.

  503. #509 Caine
    February 27, 2010

    Jadehawk, OM @ 486:

    as a matter of fact, the middle of the night is the only sensible time to try to read anything without distractions.

    Amen, Sister.

    Jadehawk, OM @ 495:

    I dispute you anti-nightowl assumption that people who read at night don’t get “a good night’s(!) sleep”.

    I never get a good night’s sleep. I do, however, always get a good morning’s sleep.

  504. #510 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Self described leader of the Aryan Nations, Paul R Mullet

    Paul R Mullet? Paul R Mullet?!

  505. #511 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    Hm, on the topic of strokes in the US :

    African-americans have higher risk of strokes

    I wonder if this is really all genetic though, and not just due to the fact that their secondary prevention is lacking, and fewer can afford to eat Statins and Aspirine.( or have access to a doc to prescribe the shit in the first place)

    Over here, the Aussie equivalent of your african-americans in terms of cardiovascular risk are pacific islanders, bad food and bad genes, lethal combo.45yo guy I saw last night, went to sleep at home, and never woke up, sent him for urgent neurosurgery, but was all too late.

  506. #512 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    I shit you not. His name is Paul R. Mullet. Unfortunately, he’s not sporting one in any of the pictures I’ve seen. He’s not stereotypically skin-headed, but neither is he mulleted. :(

  507. #513 maureen.brian#b5c92
    February 27, 2010

    Walton,

    I know you’re studying hard – and good luck to you on that – but have you not once looked out of your window this past couple of years?

    The UK’s growth for the last quarter of 2009 was revised up yesterday – from 0.1% to 0.3%. In other words, it looks as though we might just and if we all hold our breath have avoided a total collapse whose genesis is global and fuck-all, really, to do with either Gordon Brown or Alistair Darling.

    (Yes, I know there’s an election coming up. I’m trying to stick with the real world here.)

    And why? Well, it turned out that the “wealth” created by the Masters of the Universe was largely imaginary. Vast empires were being built not simply on sand – biblical allusion, folks – but on candyfloss (cotton candy).

    Now the buggers are out creating even more candyfloss and demanding million-pound bonuses for doing it. Is that what you mean by “produce” or am I missing something?

    Look, neither of us is an economist so let’s try with something very basic. Could you please explain, according to your world view, how I now own a house – even after recent price falls – which is worth more in cash terms than I ever earned or inherited in my life? Is it really worth that or should that be what it was worth when built in 1805 plus the actual cost of the 2006 updates to the electrics and the plumbing?

    I live in it, I love it but I still believe that a large chunk of its value is imaginary!

    As you and I are both in England let us look at one of this place’s more obvious displays of wealth – the English country house. Yes, some of them are magnificent but where did even the cost of building them come from?

    Taking things in order and going back only one millennium we have rapine, serfdom, state sponsored piracy, throw in a civil war with profits for some, the enclosures, slavery and the factory system – with child labour! – in its early days. Not an awful lot of “production” by the beneficiaries that I can see.

    Once you’ve done your finals – and I wish you luck with those – then as bobber says @ 478 you’re going to have to define your terms. And defend them, including against those of us who did the work which created the “wealth” from which others have benefitted. That’s most of us, matey!

  508. #514 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010
  509. #515 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    There has been what is defined as a “Great” earthquake in Chile. Great means greater than 8 on the Moment scale (similar to but not the same as the old Richter Scale – which ought to be dumped but is probably too engrained in the public mind).

    Since this was only a few hours ago things are changing rapidly. Google USGS earthquakes and keep to the USGS site to get accurate info.

    Currently:
    8.8 Moment
    epicentre about 50 miles deep, About 50 miles offshore
    closest city Concepcion (industrial – not a tourist destination)
    6 deaths known but will rise
    Santiago (capital) lights out but cars moving, tsunami warnings for S American coastline (this is something that will change rapidly)
    currently sized as 5th largest quake worldwide since 1900
    1985 Chile had a larger and very destructive quake so they are familiar with the drill
    In general, Chile is a well-off country because it supplies one third of the world’s copper
    building regs are good (as long as they are followed)

  510. #517 Walton
    February 27, 2010

    Comrade, wouldn’t you agree that worker-owned cooperatives — of the type that exist now even in capitalist countries, where only the workers at a particular business own the business, not a universally-owned dictatorship of the proletariat — meet this requirement?

    Yes. There are several businesses in the UK which are collectively owned by their workers, such as the John Lewis Partnership. I don’t know of anyone who has a problem with this; in a free society, if people want to set up a worker-owed co-operative, they are entirely free to do so. It works fine, as far as I can tell, and is no less legitimate than any other business model.

  511. #518 Carlie
    February 27, 2010

    Random comment: This pisses me off. Yet another scare article about the “rise of” antibiotic-resistant diseases. The phrase isn’t “rise of”; it’s “evolution of”. Argh. No wonder three-quarters of the country doesn’t believe in evolution when even the most clear-cut cases aren’t labeled correctly.

  512. #519 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    The phrase isn’t “rise of”; it’s “evolution of”

    Hm, yeah, thats true in parts where known bugs evolve to develop resistancies to antibiotics.There are however also bugs that we just learn about, even in 2010, e.g. I saw a patient this week that is, I kid you not, one of 13 known cases in the world infected with a bug called Dietzia, its slowly eating her right breast, Penicillin is supposed to work theoretically, but somehow doesnt work very well, nooone has a clue.
    So, yes, we are still learning.

  513. #520 Matt Penfold
    February 27, 2010

    Yes. There are several businesses in the UK which are collectively owned by their workers, such as the John Lewis Partnership. I don’t know of anyone who has a problem with this; in a free society, if people want to set up a worker-owed co-operative, they are entirely free to do so. It works fine, as far as I can tell, and is no less legitimate than any other business model.

    It seems to be a very effective model. Better than shareholder ownership in terms of stability.

  514. #521 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    Chile earthquake, latest news but will change rapidly. Still being classified 8.8 on the Moment scale, about 8.4 on Richter scale. Sadly, things will only get worse as more information comes in.

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100227/twl-dozens-killed-as-chile-hit-by-major-3fd0ae9.html

    Tsunami predictions (particularly Hawaii) being updated every hour:

    http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/
    (and press refresh)

  515. #522 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    @ Alan B; Sounds like a big ‘un.

    Thanks for the updates and the links. Cue Pat Robertson or some other asshole blaming it on lesbians/liberals/copper mining(?), etc. in 3.. 2.. 1..

  516. #523 Feynmaniac
    February 27, 2010
  517. #524 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    Greg Laden: Turns out, René Descartes trolled his own site.

    Ehm, Feynmaniac, I fail to see the shock value here I think ! But then, I’m so pleasantly inebriated if I was a guitar I would weep right now….

  518. #525 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    Rorschach,

    While you’re presently pleasantly inebriated, have a listen to this ukulele gently weeping.

  519. #526 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    But then again, Im drunk enough I might hit theCold Cold Ground soon.

    But come to think of it, In the neighborhood there might be similarly intoxicated people !

    Well, I figure if you’re unhappy with your day and stuff so far, you could always get yourself some Chocolate Jesus

  520. #527 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 27, 2010

    One has to Wonder what the Chileans did to deserve this. I’m sure pat Robertson will be telling us soon.

  521. #528 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 27, 2010

    One has to Wonder what the Chileans did to deserve this.

    I’m sure it has more to do with living near a plate subduction zone, than anything the delusional Robertson comes up with.

  522. #529 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    One more song, just because Jake Shimabukuro rocks.

    Let’s Dance

  523. #530 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    boygenius,

    thanks for the links, the guy is pretty cool !

  524. #531 WowbaggerOM
    February 27, 2010

    Rorschach – Hunter S. Thompson. The Rev’s post #472 is a quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

    Anyway, I just got home from the Soundwave festival; Placebo were great, Jane’s Addiction kicked ass and Faith No More blew my fucking mind – they played Stripsearch (my favourite of their songs) but made it even more awesome by segueing into it with a rocked up version of Chariots of Fire.

    I’ll see if I can find a YouTube version to link.

  525. #532 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    you could always get yourself some Chocolate Jesus

    I’ll see your Chocolate Jesus and raise you one Big Butter Jesus.

  526. #533 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    The Rev’s post #472 is a quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

    Ah, I C !

    U C, if I got an email from the Big Kahuna now saying, sorry mate, gotta terminate your employment contract here, you have one night, that you can spend with any of 2 chicks you know from the Pharyngula blog before I switch you off in the morning, I would ask for Dana Hunter and Aquaria…:-)

    Oh shit, I will so regret this in the morning…:-)

  527. #534 WowbaggerOM
    February 27, 2010
  528. #535 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    Oh shit, I will so regret this in the morning…:-)

    And this is from the guy who made this post?

  529. #536 Knockgoats
    February 27, 2010

    All it means is that we derive benefits from others acting in their own self-interest. It’s common sense: if A produces something that B wants, and B produces something that A wants, then, by exchanging, they both benefit. Both are acting in their own self-interest, but the transaction is good for everyone. Where’s the “magical thinking” in that? – Walton

    The magical thinking is in personifying “the market”. But I was mostly teasing: presumably only magical beings could have “invisiblehands”.

  530. #537 Feynmaniac
    February 27, 2010

    Secular Coalition for America to Meet with White House Officials on National Policy

    Marking the first time in history a presidential administration has met for a policy briefing with the American nontheist community, on February 26 the Secular Coalition for America will engage with White House officials on issues of great concern to the secular movement.

    I wonder how it went.

  531. #539 Walton
    February 27, 2010

    One has to Wonder what the Chileans did to deserve this. I’m sure pat Robertson will be telling us soon.

    Letting a woman (Michele Bachelet) out of the kitchen for long enough that she was elected president. Quelle horreur! [/idiot]

    (Ugh. I wouldn’t put it past Robertson to actually think this.)

  532. #540 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    just want to say that there’s absolutely no benefit to reading at 2am

    That depends entirely on when you got up and how much sleep you need.

    Besides, I once or twice started reading a book in the evening and, undistracted, simply couldn’t stop before I had finished the book at probably 6 am. (I didn’t dare try to find out if that estimate was correct either time.) I can’t seriously regret that ? while both books weren’t ingenious, they were well written, and they gave me something to think about. I did get several hours of sleep afterwards in both cases.

    Multiculturalism, multi-orientationism, multi-everything is inherently self-contradictory, for to the extent that “equality” is a value above all else, we recognize that the US would be quite the same country as if it were 60% latino, 30% black, and 50% gay. But of course it would be an enormously different country that most of us would be unhappy with.

    :-o

    <headdesk>

    What would make you unhappy about it?

    What in the fuck makes you think any population ever could become 50 % gay? Male homosexuality, at least, runs in families (together with increased female fertility!), and is more common in younger brothers than in elder ones. Unless someone enacts a cruel breeding program for teh ghey, 50 % just ain’t gonna happen.

    mmmm….. roleplay…..

    :-)

    Or to put it another way: I also found this. And hate* is… not good. It… poisons the… something… whatever. Uh… a Jedi… fuck the Jedi. I can explain everything I understand. If I couldn’t explain it to others, I couldn’t explain it to myself, and if I couldn’t explain it to myself, I wouldn’t understand it.

    And it’s not like I wouldn’t learn anything in the process either.

    * Let alone self-hate.

    Here was another post from PZ documenting the kind of sloppy thinking that makes one despair, and then the whole discussion was turned into a thread that was not only worthwhile, but positively enlightening.

    Oh, so I should check it out after all. Will do so soon.

    The International Journal of Thread Studies has finally published posted its gala special-issue Threadiversary Retrospective.

    And the first comment is by PZ :-)

    I shit you not. His name is Paul R. Mullet. Unfortunately, he’s not sporting one in any of the pictures I’ve seen. He’s not stereotypically skin-headed, but neither is he mulleted. :(

    Is that something to look up in the Urban Dictionary? My dead-tree one knows the word but only equates it with two fish species.

    There has been what is defined as a “Great” earthquake in Chile. Great means greater than 8 on the Moment scale (similar to but not the same as the old Richter Scale – which ought to be dumped but is probably too engrained in the public mind).

    I had no idea of that earthquake or the moment scale. Wikipedia explains the latter (footnotes removed):

    [The Richter] scale was based on the ground motion measured by a particular type of seismometer at a distance of 100 km from the earthquake. Because of this, there is an upper limit on the highest measurable magnitude; all large earthquakes will have a local magnitude of around 7. The local magnitude’s estimate of earthquake size is also unreliable for measurements taken at a distance of more than about 350 miles (600 km) from the earthquake’s epicenter.

    The moment magnitude (Mw) scale was introduced in 1979 by Caltech seismologists Thomas C. Hanks and Hiroo Kanamori to address these shortcomings while maintaining consistency. Thus, for medium-sized earthquakes, the moment magnitude values should be similar to Richter values. That is, a magnitude 5.0 earthquake will be about a 5.0 on both scales. This scale was based on the physical properties of the earthquake, specifically the seismic moment (M0). Unlike other scales, the moment magnitude scale does not saturate at the upper end; there is no upper limit to the possible measurable magnitudes. However, this has the side-effect that the scales diverge for smaller earthquakes.

    Moment magnitude is now the most common measure for medium to large earthquake magnitudes, but breaks down for smaller quakes. For example, the United States Geological Survey does not use this scale for earthquakes with a magnitude of less than 3.5, which is the great majority of quakes. For these smaller quakes, other magnitude scales are used. [...]

    Magnitude scales differ from earthquake intensity, which is the perceptible moving, shaking, and local damages experienced during a quake. The shaking intensity at a given spot depends on many factors, such as soil types, soil sublayers, depth, type of displacement, and range from the epicenter (not counting the complications of building engineering and architectural factors). Rather, they are used to estimate only the total energy released by the quake.

    I feel smarter now. :-)

    Interestingly, the article also exists in Haitian Creole, though it’s a bit short there.

    8.8 Moment

    :-O

    Scary.

    blaming it on lesbians/liberals/copper mining(?)

    :-D

  533. #541 Walton
    February 27, 2010

    Well, to be fair, my sleep patterns are not great. I went to bed at 2.30 am, intending to get up and work no later than 8.30 am… unfortunately, I overslept and didn’t even get out of bed until 9.15. I then found I had run out of both coffee and cereal, and had to go shopping.

    I desperately want to get this work done so I can go to the gym. Unfortunately, it’s also raining outside. :-(

  534. #542 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    David M asked:

    Is that something to look up in the Urban Dictionary?

    Yay!! I finally get to teach David something he doesn’t know, instead of it always being the other way around.

    This is a mullet. Long in the back, short in the front and nothing in the middle.

  535. #543 Feynmaniac
    February 27, 2010

    Is that something to look up in the Urban Dictionary? My dead-tree one knows the word but only equates it with two fish species


    Mullet
    . (Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullet_%28haircut%29 )

    And it’s dreaded cousin, the skullet.

  536. #544 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 27, 2010

    I might have mentioned a few weeks ago that I was faith-healed following a panel-discussion with some UU?s. The student who healed me* gave me her phone-number so that I could call her when my conversion was complete. I got better, thanks to the love of Jesus and a strong cocktail of antibiotics. The problem is, that I am sick again, and of course this leaves me in a pickle. Dealing with the sickness is no big deal?I get another cocktail of antibiotics and schedule surgery for the early summer. Both of these are effective at treating my problem?I?m a little young to be in trouble with the disease I have, but whatever?it?s not life-threatening.

    The pickle is this: I could call the student and explain that the woo only took temporarily or not at all. But its not a good experiment in my eyes; it?s hardly unheard of for people to recover from this malady entirely without the aid of talismans?I can?t imagine that my continued suffering would shake her faith either?what?s worse, I dread the repeat interaction where I get waved at and gestured to and chanted over again. I?m not sure what is considered good etiquette during such a ceremony. Here?s what it reminded me of. Have you ever had an acquaintance read you bad but original poetry??you just stand there with your thumb up your ass trying to appear to be interested in the poem, but at the same time growing more and more uncomfortable because you have no idea when the poem will end. On one hand you could say something afterwards that would not be rude, but insufficiently positive?basically a form of damnation with faint praise. On the other hand, you may choose to gratify the poet by saying something insincere but positive?in which case you may have another poem said at you.

    I guess there is no dilemma, because there is no way in hell I am ever calling that chick. This has been a pointless post.

    *Well?really it was Jesus, but she was the instrument of his love for me. This makes the experience sound worse than it was.

  537. #545 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 27, 2010

    I should mention that the faith-healer was not herself a UU…she had come to the discussion to 1) convert and then 2) denounce both the UUs and the athiests, some of which were also UUs.

  538. #546 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    And it’s dreaded cousin, the skullet.

    Hehe. The “skullet”. Freakin’ Jesse Ventura; have y’all seen his show Conspiracy Theory?

    As a born and raised Minnesotan, I am ashamed that he was ever elected Governor. The fact that he has either sold out or gone off the deep end with his sniny new woo saturated TV show only turns that shame into contempt.

  539. #547 monado
    February 27, 2010

    Happy New Year of the Thread.

    If you-all would like a new favorite charity, how about the educational charity fund for No Longer Qivering? (Motto: There is no U in Qivering)?

    One of the recent articles is about the child abuse and even murder that can result from ‘Christian’ child-rearing techniques. This article is a repost from another blog and so it not the direct experience of Ms. Unquivering, which explains why it is written from a religious point of view.

  540. #548 Dania
    February 27, 2010

    …and Faith No More blew my fucking mind – they played Stripsearch (my favourite of their songs) but made it even more awesome by segueing into it with a rocked up version of Chariots of Fire.

    Damn you, Wowbagger. Such high levels of envy cannot be healthy!

    [But thanks for the link. ;)]

  541. #549 Dust
    February 27, 2010

    Antiochus Epiphanes @544

    Have you ever had an acquaintance read you bad but original poetry??you just stand there with your thumb up your ass trying to appear to be interested in the poem, but at the same time growing more and more uncomfortable because you have no idea when the poem will end.

    Oh man! Do you know my brother too? An alleged poet in the family who seeks you out to read his horrendous drivel, then proceed to wax on and on about how wonderful and subline the piece is as a whole, how such clever turns of phrasing were created from his mind plus all the never ending minutia of how the poem was written in the middle of the night…
    While your trapped there with your knees locked and you mouth agape and your poor whimpering mind
    begging “Oh Sweet Jesus if you really wanted me to believe in you now would be the time for some rapturing to be happening” but of course it doesn’t happen and just when you are admitting to yourself that you really are all alone in the universe but HELL does exist after all the monologe stops and you see the expectant look on the face of your tormenter and out of your traitorious mouth come the final humiliation “Yeah, nice poem man.”

    Oh yes, I been down to that perverse level of hell, oh yes.

  542. #550 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #528 Nerd of Redhead OM

    I’m sure it has more to do with living near a plate subduction zone …

    Now, Nerd. You’ve been told that’s all wrong.

    Where are Alan Clarke and RogerS when you need an explanation? Oh yes. I remember. Alan Clarke got himself banned and RogerS seems to have lost a bit of interest in the Thread.

    Hey, RogerS, my friend. You’re welcome to come on in and explain all about how real geologists have got it wrong about plate subduction – you remember, Alan Clarke was going to put us all right according to his hypothesis (read “wild guess”) about Flood geology® but he seemed to have other things to do like fill in his tax return …

    Can you find out what his “wild guess” was so that we can put Nerd straight on this?

    (Or not as the case may be.)

    Before you (or Pat Roberston) go too far, remember what Jesus had to say about the 18 deaths when the Tower of Siloam fell in His time. You won’t need me to tell you but it’s Luke 13, is it not?

  543. #551 Bobber
    February 27, 2010

    Maureen Brian wrote:

    Well, it turned out that the “wealth” created by the Masters of the Universe was largely imaginary.

    and

    I live in it, I love it but I still believe that a large chunk of its value is imaginary!

    which fits in with my earlier comment of

    There’s playing within the rules of the game, and then there’s understanding that the rules of the game have very little bearing to anything more than a contrived reality, established by the rulesmakers themselves. And how did they get to establish the rules? “He who has the gold…”

    What do societies find valuable? How do they determine what qualifies as a medium of exchange? Even within the larger economic system, there are microsystems that function quite well – for instance, here on the farm I’ve traded goats for labor, soap for hay – there’s a thriving barter system on the margins (particularly because cash is in short supply). The property next door has been on the market for four years; if sold to as a residence, it could go for $300K, but the owner is trying to sell it commercially for ten times that. Who decided that the same dirt should vary in price by a factor of ten depending upon who the buyer is?

    The system that has been established can only exist for as long as a majority of people believe they can benefit from it; whether this system is political or economic, there may come a point where dissatisfaction with the system leads to change. Whether that change is peaceful or violent, evolutionary or revolutionary, once the social contract is in doubt, change will come. And a winner-take-all system, where an increasing majority are “losers”, and the wealth is concentrated at the top, will eventually become so top-heavy (gold is weighty, after all) that it will topple over.

    (Yes, I’m rapidly throwing shit out there again. But the Thread That Never Ends seems to be a place I can make my own “random ejaculations”.)

  544. #552 Knockgoats
    February 27, 2010

    Do you have any plans to visit the south or do I need to make the trek up the far north for a drink? – JeffreyD

    I’ll be making a brief visit “daarn saarf” in late March – I’m doing a PhD oral as external on 23rd. I’m returning on the sleeper from London late that day, but haven’t yet booked my travel down, so could come down a bit early if you’d be around. I’m then away in France (brother-in-law and partner have had a place in the Alps for several years, always asking us to come and stay, we’re finally getting round to it) until (I think) 2nd April. No specific plans after that, but let me know your dates when fixed – maybe we’ll finally get to meet!

  545. #553 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    February 27, 2010

    This is a mullet. Long in the back, short in the front and nothing in the middle.

    Business in the front, party in the back.

  546. #554 Dania
    February 27, 2010

    Alan B, #550:

    And isn’t Chile one of those places where volcanoes are on the wrong side of the trench? No? Oh, never mind

  547. #555 Knockgoats
    February 27, 2010

    I think it was Jadehawk who postulated earlier that I could have the necessary tests and still not know what the hell is wrong with me. I guess I would prefer not to die from something preventable. – Lynna, OM

    Lynna, I mentioned this before, but you may not have seen it: IIRC you’re on statins, and I have read that a possible side-effect of some statins is transient global amnesia (can’t find a good online reference that isn’t behind a paywall). Might be worth asking about if you haven’t done so, anyway.

  548. #556 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #540 David Marjanovi?

    Hey, my friend. You’ve got the Moment scale sussed out. How about the Modified Mercalli scale or MM?

    That will give you the set:

    Moment to estimate the energy involved and
    Modified Mercalli to express the intensity of the effects of the earthquake.

    The lower degrees of the MM scale generally deal with the manner in which the earthquake is felt by people. The higher numbers of the scale are based on observed structural damage. Note the scale is from I to XII i.e. in integers expressed as Roman numerals:

    I Instrumental. Not felt by many people unless in favourable conditions.

    II Feeble. Felt only by a few people at best, especially on the upper floors of buildings. Delicately suspended objects may swing.

    III Slight. Felt quite noticeably by people indoors, especially on the upper floors of buildings. Many do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing motor cars may rock slightly. Vibration similar to the passing of a truck. Duration estimated.

    Through to:

    X Disastrous. Some well built wooden structures destroyed; most masonry and frame structures destroyed with foundation. Rails bent.

    XI Very Disastrous. Few, if any masonry structures remain standing. Bridges destroyed. Rails bent greatly.

    XII Catastrophic. Total damage – Everything is destroyed. Total destruction. Lines of sight and level distorted. Objects thrown into the air. The ground moves in waves or ripples. Large amounts of rock move position.

    Moment Scale is a measure of the energy released and in principle is unlimited in magnitude: the Great Valdivia Earthquake in Chile was rated as 9.5 moment. The energy difference between each unit on the scale is a factor of 31.6. Thus, going from 6.8 to 8.8 is 1000 times more energy.

    The MM scale is limited to XII, “Catastrophic” i.e. Total Damage

    Seven earthquakes have taken 200,000 or more lives. Haiti in January 2010 is at #4 with the loss of 230,000 and counting.

  549. #557 Knockgoats
    February 27, 2010

    And people who are successful seek to pass on to their children whatever advantages they have gained in life. – Walton

    What a narrow view of humanity you have, Walton!

    I’ll certainly seek to help my son materially as long as he needs it, and I don’t deny benefitting from a significant material legacy from my parents (about 1/4 of the price of the house we bought three years later), but this was of infinitesimal importance compared to their love and example; and I hope my son will be able to say the same of me when I’m dead. With regard to material advantages, whether I leave anything to him is really not important to me, provided (as I hope), he’s by then a productive member of society being reasonably recompensed for what he does. I’ve no desire to see him become rich, because I think that has a strong tendency to turn decent people into selfish shits. I’d much rather we both play a part in making national and global society far more egalitarian than it is, which would undoubtedly reduce his relative advantages, as it would mine.

    BTW Walton, you’ve already received reams of good advice on your exams, but I’ll just add mine. Make yourself a timetable of what revision you’ll do when, starting from the exams and working backwards. It should be reasonably demanding, but leave yourself time for relaxation – maybe in the morning, when you’re not at your most productive, but if so, set an alarm for the time you will start work, and when it rings, make yourself coffee and get to work. You’ll be the best judge of how to relax, but I’d urge you to consider that it may be best to leave Pharyngula aside until after the exams, as you will want to answer points from both wooists and lefties, and even if you stop at the appointed time, will still be composing your arguments when you should be revising!

  550. #558 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    Thanks for the mullets! I had no idea that had a name. :-) I know an autotheistic professor with a skullet. He failed me twice in Introduction to Ecology*. The first time I hadn’t learnt enough, OK, fine. The second I had learnt enough, but just couldn’t write fast enough to answer enough questions in the limited time! He summoned me to his office and told me bullshit about things like “nature optimizes for performance/output”. Fortunately another professor gave that course the next semester; that exam was arguably even too easy, and I got the best mark. Had I failed that third time, a likely outcome under the previous professor, I’d have had to repeat the exam orally in front of a commission**; and if I’d failed that, that would have been the end of my biology studies.

    * Would probably be called “Ecology 101″ in the USA. I have little idea of that system.
    ** This happened to me in an immunology course. Molecular biology is having a load of knowledge dumped on you; if you can eat it all up, good…

    I went to bed at 2.30 am, intending to get up and work no later than 8.30 am

    Ehem… there are people who only need 6 hours of sleep per night, but there aren’t many of them. I don’t think you’re one.

    If you get up before having slept enough, you’ll simply be tired and unproductive the whole day long.

    There is no U in Qivering

    :-D

  551. #559 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #550 & #554

    We’ll never know, Dania, we’ll never know…

  552. #560 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    Molecular biology is having a load of knowledge dumped on you; if you can eat it all up, good…

    Better: Studying molecular biology is to have a load of knowledge dumped on you; if you can eat it all up, good… <burp>

  553. #561 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #550 etc.

    One of the problems Alan Clarke had was that he seemed to think, as Dania reminds us, that the volcanoes were on the wrong side of the subduction zone, although I never understood what he meant.

    Where the volcanoes are is a matter of fact. Why they are there and not somewhere else is the explanation devised by Plate Tectonic Theory.

    I know scripture says that God can move mountains but even if all the volcanoes moved to where ever Alan Clarke wanted them, he would still have to explain why they were there and how they were formed. “Miracles” may be a logically acceptable explanation but not if you are going to teach it in US classrooms. Last Thursdayism is another explanation. At least he didn’t try that one here!

  554. #562 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    A publically-funded college uses its resources to recruit mormon students.

    A letter written by Northwest College President Paul Prestwich and mailed to 1,002 Mormon students earlier this month was intended to generate interest in the college. The letter has indeed accomplished just that ? but likely not the kind of interest Prestwich originally had in mind.
         Within weeks of their postmark date, the recruitment letters have caught the attention of a national publication, local media, the American Civil Liberties Union?s Wyoming office and the Northwest College campus community.
         In a letter posted on college letterhead and mailed by NWC, Prestwich identifies himself as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and highlights the ?remarkable opportunities for LDS students? at Northwest College.
    The envelope also included a letter on church letterhead from Fred Hopkin, president of the Cody Wyoming Stake, describing the student ward?s offerings.
         For some, the recruitment letter raises serious concerns about the ethics of a publicly funded college?s recruitment of students on the basis of faith…. ? public institutions should not be in the business of marketing themselves on the basis of religious affiliation….Article 7 Section 12 mandates that secretarian tenets and doctrines will ?not be taught or favored in any public school or institution? established by the Constitution.
         …Neither Patrick nor Nassirian sees a problem with Prestwich identifying himself as an LDS church member, but rather, the way he disclosed his beliefs…. the issue is that the president of a public college is selectively targeting students of faith for recruitment…
         The 1,002 students who received the letter are Wyoming high schoolers enrolled in an LDS program already, and the college was simply giving them information about opportunities they may be interested in at NWC and Powell, Prestwich said.
    ?Students are more likely to succeed in an academic sense if they can be included in organizations within the college and external groups in the community,? Prestwich said.
         The LDS church has supplied the college with a list of potential students in the past. ?We would send out general packets, and they (ward leaders) would follow up with letters,? Hammond said. Hammond said the college also plans to work with Campus Ventures, a Christian campus ministry, and the Newman Center to mail out letters to other religious students.
         Prestwich added that the college has worked with a variety of international student agents, including one who works with LDS students from Asia. The students want to attend a school that serves Mormon students with a student ward, or congregation, and the agent typically helps them attend colleges in Utah…

    Source: http://powelltribune.com/index.php/content/view/3083/2/

  555. #563 Matt Penfold
    February 27, 2010

    Alan B,

    Something I have been meaning to ask you for a long time but never seemed to get around to.

    Can you recomend a good popular science book on geology ? I am woefully ignorant on the subject. I have read Richard Fortey’s Earth, and seen a number of documentaries by Ian Stewart on the BBC but what else is good (if indeed those are!) ?

  556. #564 JeffreyD
    February 27, 2010

    Knockgoats at #552.

    Heading back to the UK within a week or so. Barring unforeseen difficulties late March should work. The run down to London is easy for me. I finally remembered I had your email, so will let you know when I return. I will not be checking this place as much for a while so email best anyway. I am probably staying until June so we have some time. First drink on me.

    Ciao, Jeffrey

  557. #565 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Knockgoats @555

    Lynna, I mentioned this before, but you may not have seen it: IIRC you’re on statins, and I have read that a possible side-effect of some statins is transient global amnesia (can’t find a good online reference that isn’t behind a paywall). Might be worth asking about if you haven’t done so, anyway.

    Thanks, Knockgoats. I did see that, and I looked into it. I’m taking Zetia, which is not actually a statin. The generic name is ezetimibe. Zetia is often prescribed with a statin, but in my case I’m taking Zetia alone. I have reduced the dose to 5 mg/day (from 10 mg/day). The incidence of global amnesia associated with Zetia is very rare. My doctor feels it’s an unlikely cause of my brain-offline event. However, I realize that it can’t be ruled out.

    Here is a study that points to some pretty bad problems with Zetia: http://www.drugs.com/news/new-study-raises-new-questions-cholesterol-zetia-20925.html

    I’ve been considering not taking the drug at all, but my doctor and I agreed to try that for 3 months more than a year ago. We did a blood test before, and a blood test after. My blood tests “rocked” while on the drug. When I quit taking it, the upward trend in cholesterol levels was clear.

    I tried a statin, but was one of the patients that experienced muscle pain, which is definitely not a good sign.

    Niacin sounds interesting. But for the most part, I don’t know what to do. And part of the problem is my inability to pay for testing of various kinds, nor can I pay the $160 minimum it costs for a visit to discuss test results with my doctor.

    Someone else (I think it was Nerd) said that Zetia was a dangerous chemical, active in ways that would require people working with it to suit up and have a protected air supply.

    So far, the only thing we do know for sure is that my carotid arteries look good.

  558. #566 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    boygenius @508: I like the understated humor of the journalist who wrote the first article for which you provided a link:

    While declaring itself UN-free appears to have had little impact on Grant County’s everyday affairs…

    Gotta give kudos to the guys who managed to kick the Nazis out of northern Idaho in 2000. Those men are still giving the Nazis fits by traveling to places like John Day, OR in order to give the locals the full skinny on Paul Mullet’s proposed “compound”.

  559. #567 Carlie
    February 27, 2010

    Example of someone with a mullet (plus explanation near the end!)

    For David and anyone else not A)American and B) old enough, this is an 80s video by a group called Tears for Fears. This guy started making voiceovers to them that explained exactly what was happening in the video, which is funny given that 80s US music videos were often…odd. Others have tried to copy the idea since, but he’s still the master of the genre.

  560. #568 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Someone else (I think it was Nerd) said that Zetia was a dangerous chemical, active in ways that would require people working with it to suit up and have a protected air supply.

    Well, what I indicated that it is a very potent compound, which means a small amount is needed to do the job (hence your 5 mg dosage). Anybody working with the bulk drug (kilogram quantities) would have to be suitably protected so they wouldn’t even come close to a clinical dosage. One way to do this is to wear supplied air respirators, so that there is no chance for airborne particles to be inhaled, as there is a constant flow of air from the respirator to the environment. Some steroids and cancer drugs are used microgram dosages. These are handled in even more stringent environments like glove boxes.

  561. #569 Dania
    February 27, 2010

    One of the problems Alan Clarke had was that he seemed to think, as Dania reminds us, that the volcanoes were on the wrong side of the subduction zone, although I never understood what he meant.

    Where the volcanoes are is a matter of fact. Why they are there and not somewhere else is the explanation devised by Plate Tectonic Theory.

    He never explained what he meant because he himself had no idea (he copied it from Walt Brown’s site, IIRC). But his “reasoning” seemed to go like this:

    <Alan Clarke> 1) Plate Tectonic Theory predicts that volcanoes should be on a specific side of the subduction zone, though I don’t particularly care which side it is; 2) Walt Brown says most volcanoes are on the opposite side and that must be true because it helps my argument; 3) Therefore, Plate Tectonic Theory is wrong and I win. Also, Goddidit.</Alan Clarke>

    It’s all very logical, you see…

  562. #570 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    And certain Assistant Professors have some explaining regarding their time management to do !!

    yeah, ya think?

    (story of my life)

  563. #571 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    So far, the only thing we do know for sure is that my carotid arteries look good.

    pix or gtfu

  564. #572 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    o.

    gtfO; stfU…got it.

  565. #573 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    Suppose Tom Waits was a chick from Kentucky covering The Artist Formerly Known as Prince.

    Sort of. Very cool cover though (no vid I can find):

    http://hypem.com/track/206901/The+Be+Good+Tanyas+-+When+Doves+Cry

  566. #574 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #563

    Hi Matt

    I am old enough to remember The Brain’s Trust on BBC steam radio. There was a speaker, the late Professor C M Joad, who always seemed to begin his replies with, “It all depends what you mean by …”

    I can say the same thing. It all depends what you mean by “good” and “popular”. Anything I can come up with is going to be immediately contradicted by others (and quite rightly …). Richard Fortey has written other books including an excellent one on Trillobites. However, I would suggest:

    1 Earth Story from the BBC – not a book but a DVD set.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Earth-Story-DVD/dp/B000FS9SGE

    The presenter is Professor Aubrey Manning. A biologist IIRC who looks in from the outside to understand the forces that formed the Earth and made it the environment suitable for “his” living organisms. His style is quiet, reflective, and wanting to be taught by some of the world’s experts. Very English and totally different from Ian Stewart.

    It is also available at:

    http://www.torrentreactor.net/torrents/1658151/BBC-Earth-Story-Documentary-XviD

    I haven’t tried it and I have no idea of the legality (copyright etc.) of this.

    There is also a book that goes with the series (there always is with the BBC!):
    Earth Story (the forces that shaped our planet) by Simon Lamb and David Singlton.
    ISBN 0-563-48707-0
    My copy is the paperback version, just under A4 size and £12.99 when I bought it.

    The DVDs are far better (IMHO)

    I don’t know where you .live but if it’s the UK then:

    2 The Geology of Britain – an introduction
    by Peter Toghill
    My copy is the paperback version, A4 size, £16.99 when I bought it
    ISBN 1-84037-404-7
    Peter Toghill is an enthusiastic retired geology lecturer and probably the expert on the geology of the Welsh Marches and Shropshire so the book is weighted in that direction.

    3. Teach Yourself Geology
    by David Rothery

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourself-Geology-McGraw-Hill/dp/0071439722

    I should declare a (non-financial) interest. David is a lecturer (I would guess he might be a “Professor” in US style) at the Open University in the UK. He has written or co-written some of the OU Earth Sciences material. This book is a sound introduction to Geology as a subject to study rather than as a picture book. David has also produced a Teach Yourself book on Volcanoes, Earthquakes and Tsunamis

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yourself-Volcanoes-Earthquakes-Tsunamis-General/dp/034094241X

    and on the Planets (planetary geology if you like):

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourself-Planets-Science/dp/0340867604

    4. Openlearn Another non-book – instead on the internet

    http://www.open.ac.uk/openlearn/get-started/get-started-learner.php

    This is an explanation of a collection of segments from Open University modules, some of which are science but it covers the whole range. The material is free and is obviously there to encourage an interest in the Open University. Try browsing the Science and Nature index at:

    openlearn.open.ac.uk/course/category.php?id=10&perpage=15&page=1

    (Obviously, copy and paste the partial URLs and add the “http etc.” in front.)

    There are far too many segments to list but the material is split into about 10 hour (variable, 5-30 hours at a quick look) study segments including earthquakes, plate tectonics, life in the Palaeozoic, introduction to evolution (very basic), Darwin, Mountain Building in Scotland and many others.

    Hope you find something of interest. Let us know what you think when you’ve got hold of any of them.

  567. #575 Matt Penfold
    February 27, 2010

    Hi Alan,

    Thanks for those.

    The first one, Earth Story I have seen. They are forever repeating them on one of the UKTV Channels. It was excellent.

    Did you ever catch another series by Manning, in which he looked a six areas in the UK (such as The Weald and the Fens) and worked out what effect human activity has had on the landscape. Answer: A lot! The title eludes me at present. I particularly liked the one of The Weald as I grew up on the South Downs and The Weald.

    I will check out the other suggestions.

  568. #576 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    Waiting for the Chain of Command videos to load… YouTube is being slow again.

    ?Students are more likely to succeed in an academic sense if they can be included in organizations within the college and external groups in the community,? Prestwich said.

    Except if they’re not into peer pressure.

    <Alan Clarke> 1) Plate Tectonic Theory predicts that volcanoes should be on a specific side of the subduction zone, though I don’t particularly care which side it is; 2) Walt Brown says most volcanoes are on the opposite side and that must be true because it helps my argument; 3) Therefore, Plate Tectonic Theory is wrong and I win. Also, Goddidit.</Alan Clarke>

    Bingo.

  569. #577 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Lynna, thanks for the update. I’ll be sending another little amount soon to help with the next one.

    ***

    Were you wondering if it was possible for Greg Laden to be any more ignorant and muddle-headed?

    It was:

    http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/02/an_open_letter_to_richard_dawk.php

    (See the “Outrage and Civility” thread he links to, and Pierce Butler’s valiant efforts to have a reasoned discussion with him and the sidekick. Witness their continuing tendency to side reflexively with the powerful and belittle those objecting to disrespect and abuses of power.)

  570. #578 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 27, 2010

    Lynna OM: I channelled the Mormon joke from Utah Phillips, who said he named himself after the only state he ever got deported from.

    Here. I needed a dose this morning. My longtime old friend genius hardheaded irish allergist died this week; she wasn’t all that much older than I am.

    And my favorite venue (pays in the high two figures, like Victor Navasky) is giving up its print edition, which means I lose a good chunk of my local audience.

    Damn I hate mortality.

    Ron Sullivan
    http://toad.faultline.org

  571. #579 Aquaria
    February 27, 2010

    I’ve been charged for oven cleaning because I simply forgot to do it,

    That’ll teach you not to use the darn thing. ;)

    I’m constantly finding ways not to use mine. I’m down to frozen pizza and the occasional bread or cake.

  572. #580 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Rev BDC @472, I used to have an heirloom, a copy of the Rolling Stone issue that contained part of Hunter’s “Fear and Loathing” in Las Vegas. Somebody stole it.

    Hunter S. Thompson changed my mind about writing “non-fiction”, which I have to put in quotes here considering the substances Hunter imbibed while on a reporting gig. Before reading Hunter, I thought of non-fiction as restricting my creativity. I was wrong. His take on political conventions makes me long for someone to tell it like it is. Put Hunter in the middle of the Teabaggers, I say, and let ‘er rip. (I would accept that as proof of god’s existence.)

  573. #581 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    I finally made the two requests to visit the museum collections… I thought that would take a lot of time because so many bureaucratic forms are to fill (online), but not only was it quicker than expected, the first video still hasn’t loaded completely! But there were already two scenes with 4 lights. :-)

  574. #582 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    …that I’ve been supposed to make for months. <facepalm> Autistic hesitation to set the next step can be pretty annoying.

    The first video is finished. Maybe boredom will drive me to write to my thesis committee* to arrange the next and last meeting which has to take place in March…

    * Not the jury who will give the marks. It’s another body that is supposed to follow my thesis and prevent me from embarking on projects that aren’t feasible within 3 years.

  575. #583 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Rorschach @519

    I saw a patient this week that is, I kid you not, one of 13 known cases in the world infected with a bug called Dietzia, its slowly eating her right breast…

    Judging from a few of your posts on Pharyngula, I’d say that you have all the material you need to write some horrifyingly realistic scripts for armageddon movies.

    Dietzia should be added to the Creation Museum as proof of god’s love, mightiness, and psychosis.

  576. #584 Aquaria
    February 27, 2010

    Ooh, AlanB–thanks for those, but don’t blame me if Mr Aquaria gets mad at you for encouraging my “rock fetish,” as he calls it.

  577. #585 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    And hate* is… not good. It… poisons the… something… whatever. Uh… a Jedi… fuck the Jedi.

    it’s not so much hate as passionate and virulent education envy. I mean, it could be argued that you’re not that much smarter than I am, but you’re decidedly vastly better educated in all sorts of ways. Which just reminds me how horribly I fucked up my own education. And that’s frustrating.

    And it’s dreaded cousin, the skullet.

    lol

    for instance, here on the farm I’ve traded goats for labor, soap for hay – there’s a thriving barter system on the margins (particularly because cash is in short supply)

    same thing exists at the bottom of the food/service industry. people exchange the perks which companies give them instead of money: day old bagels from Noah’s Bagels, milk and coffee from starbucks, etc.

    Would probably be called “Ecology 101″ in the USA. I have little idea of that system.

    yup, 101 would be first year, first course (they do get somewhat random in number later on, but usually the 1st number means which year you’re supposed to take it in).
    Incidentally, I’m kinda hoping that if/when i get to NDSU, they’ll let me skip over a lot of the 101 classes, since this is stuff I already did in high-school. For example, there’s 2 classes before you even get to Organic Chemistry. Luckily in that case they’re only “recommended”, not “prerequisites”.

  578. #586 Paul W.
    February 27, 2010

    SC@557

    Yeah, kinda sad. Greg and Stephanie don’t seem to think that it’s important to figure out what actually happened, and what people are actually complaining about, before deciding that the problem is that they’re just whiny titty babies and giving them advice about how to suck up more.

    I also find it funny that somebody complained that Josh was acting like a tinpot dictator—which is quite a good analogy, so long as you realize that the stakes are much lower than in real life—but Stephanie took that person to task for using such an over-the-top, loaded analogy.

    Apparently it’s heinously unfair to compare a person who runs a web site autocratically to a dictator, but it’s just fine for Greg to compare mere commenters on such a website to a genocidal firing squad.

  579. #587 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    Example of someone with a mullet (plus explanation near the end!)

    :-) Urgh.

  580. #588 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #575 Matt Penfold

    Yes, there were two series: “Talking Landscapes” and “Landscape Mysteries”, 6 programmes in each series IIRC. Made in collaboration with the Open University where Prof Manning had an Honourary Degree. Excellent mix of geology, archaeology and natural history. I had a chance of meeting and talking to the Prof. when he came to a range of hills near where I live. Amongst many other activities he was the President of our local voluntary organisation looking at geoconservation.

    He is a warm, gentle man in the true English sense, hugely knowledgable, willing to share that knowledge and willing to listen to pick up more. Bet he was a superb lecturer – I could imagine his students hanging on every word. If not, they deserved to be chucked out so others would be able to learn from him.

    Enjoy whatever you decide to go for!

  581. #589 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    Forgot to add… when Picard starts growing a beard, he ends up looking like Éric Buffetaut who actually is French! :-D :-D :-D

    it’s not so much hate as passionate and virulent education envy. I mean, it could be argued that you’re not that much smarter than I am, but you’re decidedly vastly better educated in all sorts of ways. Which just reminds me how horribly I fucked up my own education. And that’s frustrating.

    I know. I’m offering to get you out of that.

    (And BTW, even when your “starving artist” days are taken into account, it’s possible you got more fun than I while I was getting my education.)

  582. #590 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    Laden on editing:

    Then read it over and tweak it.
    Then red it over and tweak it again.

    needless to say, [sic]

  583. #591 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    (And BTW, even when your “starving artist” days are taken into account, it’s possible you got more fun than I while I was getting my education.)

    I doubt that. I mean, sure, if we’re only counting the fun days you’re probably right. If you average the fun against the abject misery, that ends up in the negative. That however is not the effect of not getting an education, it’s the cause.

  584. #592 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmHzDpTLP2mp-qpt639sa9q2J8Wl4QREfQ
    February 27, 2010

    Dust @549

    You mean your brother is a Vogon!

    Try Pangalactic gargle blasters next time he recites poetry

  585. #593 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Yeah, kinda sad. Greg and Stephanie don’t seem to think that it’s important to figure out what actually happened, and what people are actually complaining about, before deciding that the problem is that they’re just whiny titty babies and giving them advice about how to suck up more.

    Yes, trying to excuse their own bad behavior by implying that anyone objecting to someone’s actions is a pathological blame-seeker, or at least that holding people responsible for their actions and expressing hurt and anger with them is childish and counterproductive. Those people have no place!*

    Laden:

    I noticed in the maneno that erupted here on my humble blog that apologies were being demaned a lot, and the standard reply to a demand for an apology is to demand an apology. I also noticed in that discussion and much more broadly in discussions I’ve been involved in that blame weaves together the conversation.

    “You must apologize becasue you said the sky is blue, and it is not!!!11!!”

    “Sorry, I don’t remember saying that the sky is blue. I apologize if that is what you were thinking and were bothered by that somehow, but I don’t think you said it.”

    Appalling. And no, there is no “standard reply” to a demand for an apology. Reasonable, responsible adults, if they’ve done something hurtful and/or blameworthy, respond to a demand for an apology by apologizing.

    *Also funny that he characterizes people’s real reluctance to turn away from a person and an organization to whom and which they’ve felt friendship and trust and loyalty and dedicated time and energy for years as sycophancy, while not recognizing that his reflexive refusal to take their statements and feelings seriously actually is.

  586. #594 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    SC Lynna, thanks for the update. I’ll be sending another little amount soon to help with the next one.
    Thanks, SC. As usual, I don’t know what to say.

  587. #595 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #584 Aquaria

    I wouldn’t dream of trying to encourage or discourage anything you wanted to do …

    However, while not a fetish, geology can be catching.

    I have been known to pull over into a parking area for the sole purpose of looking at the gravel because it might be interesting. It was – Criggion Dolerite – dull green mass with black and white flecks of various minerals.

    I know where the aggregate used in the tarmac for making the local roads comes from. I stopped some workmen to ask if I could have a piece of the aggregate they were using to make a path (they were so surprised they gave it to me – a different form of dolerite and spot on for the use they had it for).

    I have been known to bring out my handlens in a cathedral to determine what the fossils were in some limestone. I know where the stone came from at another cathedral – not the main building stone but a small area, high up in the vaulting. I know what it is, why they chose it and where else it can be found. It’s tufa as I have explained before in The Thread.

    I am a complete nutter when it comes to rocks…

    Local to me is a shop that sells New Age and Wicka items – crystal balls, crystal wands, all sorts of weird items. The owner and I are on very good terms – I explain where the rocks come from and their scientific significance and try to get her to come on a field trip with a group Open University students. She’s given up trying to convince me about crystal healing etc.

    You havn’t got to the stage yet where your rock collection is causing a gravitational anomaly on the local geology maps. Or you have packs made to fit to the pet dog so that it can help carry the samples.

    (OK, I haven’t done the last two … yet.)

    Have a good read!

  588. #596 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    (Me and my perfectionist interest in utter completeness. I shouldn’t have included that distracting parenthesis at all. <sigh>)

  589. #597 Aquaria
    February 27, 2010

    that you can spend with any of 2 chicks you know from the Pharyngula blog before I switch you off in the morning, I would ask for Dana Hunter and Aquaria…:-)
    Oh shit, I will so regret this in the morning…

    That’s sweet of you, Rory. Thanks.

    But I’m starting to wonder if my blog posts put off pheromones.

  590. #598 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Ron @578: Thanks for the introduction to Utah Phillips — funny guy. He seems to have the right attitude to the history of the wild west. He deflates the myths and doesn’t take himself too seriously. “Madder than a boiled owl” — I can use that.

  591. #599 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #597 Aquaria

    No. It’s your magnetic personality.
    We men are merely iron filings to your bar magnet.

    We are moths to your flame – flying ever closer to the dangerous, flickering light.

    (or something)

  592. #600 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    (Me and my perfectionist interest in utter completeness. I shouldn’t have included that distracting parenthesis at all. )

    *poke*

  593. #601 Aquaria
    February 27, 2010

    I am a complete nutter when it comes to rocks

    I stand in awe of your nuttery. I’ve always appreciated rock formations, enough that family and friends have teased me mercilessly about seeing the rocks in a forest rather than the trees, but I never bothered to look up things about them in the past. Those look like good starting points. Thanks again.

  594. #602 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    like iron filings to a bar magnet
    like a moth to a flame

    like a wave upon the sand

    (NSFJ)

  595. #603 Aquaria
    February 27, 2010

    Yeah, Alan, a lot of people forget that personality really can make a difference. IRL, I’m not an incredibly attractive woman, but I can’t go to any party without winding up as the center of it. I don’t look for it, but, apparently, if you’re wiling to say the most outrageous things in a funny way, people will pile up six deep to hear it.

    Admittedly, I learned this trick from my brother, who was a natural at it. Things that would get other men slapped (or worse), he would say with impunity. Like the time the Dairy Queen drive-thru speaker was broken, so we had to pull up to the window to order our chocolate-dipped ice cream cones. The order taker was a woman, and she was leaning on the sill. This only emphasized that she had a Dolly Partonesque bosom. My brother openly gawked at the sight, looked back at her face, grinned, and said, “I’ll have two big ‘uns–dipped.”

    She didn’t punch him or throw something at him or given him the ice treatment. She giggled, “adjusted” her rack a little to give him a thrill, and went to prepare our order, The only thing that was a surprise was that she didn’t give him her phone number, like usually happened when he said such things to women.

  596. #604 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    I know. I’m offering to get you out of that.

    ah, crap. you keep on saying this, and I keep on steadfastly refusing to answer because…. well, just because. so I guess I’ll thank you for the offer now, if only on principle since I can’t take you up on it (for the moment) :-p

  597. #605 Owlmirror
    February 27, 2010

    “Miracles” may be a logically acceptable explanation but not if you are going to teach it in US classrooms. Last Thursdayism is another explanation. At least he didn’t try that one here!

    Actually, he kinda did, whenever cosmology was brought up.

    Why do we see stars billions of light-years away, and a universe that appears to be 13.7 billion years old?

    Because 6000 years ago, God “stretched” the heavens after/while creating them.

    RogerS, btw, is still leaving droppings of ignorance and contempt in the “Ken Ham, baffled” thread. He even cited Walt Brown again, on the topic of carbon-14, demonstrating that he still hasn’t learned anything about the topics he is so eager to make ridiculous assertions about.

    It occurs to me that I was wrong, on that thread, to predict that PZ would probably ban RogerS. RogerS has been restricting his comments to one thread, and has been posting very infrequently. This is generally the sort of thing tolerated by the (E)CO, despite the typical Creationist godbotting, insipidity, stupidity, and occasional wanking (“I lift up a light in gross darkness for those standing on the precipise.”[sic]) demonstrated.

  598. #606 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Elizabeth Craig, former beauty queen, and über mormon of renown, has been arrested for scamming a scammer. NuSkin, a well-known multi-level marketing scam, headquartered in Utah, was ripped off by Ms. Craig and cohorts.

    Sister Craig has been a beacon of light to LDS women:

    “Elizabeth Craig knows what peer pressure is. In this fireside presentation given especially for LDS young women, she shares her unique experiences competing in the Miss America Pageant and what she had to do in order to stand up for what she believed in as a member of the Church. She also talks about LDS Church standards and why we have them. In particular, young women?s testimonies will be strengthened as Elizabeth shares stories and lessons about the importance of modesty, the Word of Wisdom, and always standing as a witness of God. Elizabeth says, ?If you don?t stand for something, you?ll fall for anything.?

    See her book, “It’s Not the Dress, It’s the Girl in the Dress.”

    Deseret Book (deseretbook.com) is busy revising history by removing Sister Craig, so you may have to resort to google website cache.

  599. #607 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Random questions:

    ‘Tis: part of my family* was down at the sub base there today and mentioned to me that they had tried unsuccessfully to find a good restaurant for lunch in New London. It’s too late now, but for future reference, are there any good places to eat there?

    Lynna: Why are there so many Utah Mormons on So You Think You Can Dance? Is dance really big there?

    *Most of the others are on a cruise in the area of the earthquake / possible tsunamis. They’re out in the pool/jacuzzi right now and the sea is calm, so I’m trying not to worry.

  600. #608 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    Now on ScienceBlogs: Neurosurgical patients get closer to God.

    First paragraph:

    REMOVAL of specific parts of the brain can induce increases in a trait which predisposes people to spirituality, according to a new clinical study by Italian reseachers. The new research, published earlier this month in the journal Neuron, provides evidence that some brain structures are associated with spiritual thinking and feelings, and hints at individual differences that might make some people more prone than others to spirituality.

    * * *

    Because 6000 years ago, God “stretched” the heavens after/while creating them.

    Don’t you just love the Argument from Error in the King James Translation? Apparently “hammered out” would be better, the sky/heaven being a goulash cauldron and all.

    RogerS, btw, is still leaving droppings of ignorance and contempt in the “Ken Ham, baffled” thread.

    The last one is from Threadmas of all days…

    Ah, yeah, the precipise. The gross darkness is rather original, too.

    über mormon of renown, has been arrested for scamming a scammer. NuSkin, a well-known multi-level marketing scam, headquartered in Utah, was ripped off by Ms. Craig and cohorts.

    ROTFLMAO! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    Week saved!

    ?If you don?t stand for something, you?ll fall for anything.?

    That’s true. However, if you stand for gullibility, you’ll also fall for anything.

    <Mr Burns’ hand gesture and grin, but without saying “excellent”>

    * * *

    *poke*

    :-)

    (…And in the parenthesis, I should have included that you seem to know a bit or three more about history-of-politics and economics than I, and not just from personal experience with the latter. :-þ )

    because…. well, just because.

    I can imagine a reason, but I’m not telling. Would be seriously embarrassing if I were wrong about that one.

    Anyway, I’ll end this day’s clumsiness and go to bed, even though it’s only 10:30 pm. I don’t sleep well these days, I think the birches and/or hazels have started to blossom; it’s also warm now ? today it was warm enough for the famous white jacket, and stayed so even after I watched the cloud layer form in the early afternoon (it’s now raining). At least I got out a little… the sedentary lifestyle makes my legs hurt and even threatens to pad my middle (I might one day reach the modal European BMI if that goes on); I’ve hardly been hungry all week long.

  601. #609 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Now on ScienceBlogs: Neurosurgical patients get closer to God.

    One minute. You beat me by one minute. But I mentioned it in a better context.

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/wheres_my_invitation.php#comment-2308399
    :P

  602. #610 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 27, 2010

    ‘Tis: part of my family* was down at the sub base there today and mentioned to me that they had tried unsuccessfully to find a good restaurant for lunch in New London. It’s too late now, but for future reference, are there any good places to eat there?

    New London itself doesn’t have any really good restaurants, at least none that I’ve found. Two towns to the east is Mystic, which has some great restaurants. I recommend the S&P Oyster House, the Captain Daniel Packer Inn, and the Seaman’s Inn (next to the Mystic Seaport) for seafood. Bravo Bravo is an excellent Italian restaurant but somewhat overpriced (except in winter, when their prices come down about 25%). Margarita’s is good if you like Mexican. There’s also Mystic Pizza, after which a movie was named, but there’s better and cheaper pizza available elsewhere (Ciro’s in Groton or Ocean Pizza in New London).

    Of all the local restaurants I like The Fisherman in Groton Long Point the best. But it’s easy to get lost going there if you’re not familiar with the area.

  603. #611 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    (…And in the parenthesis, I should have included that you seem to know a bit or three more about history-of-politics and economics than I, and not just from personal experience with the latter. :-þ )

    that’s almost entirely from reading ‘Tis Himself, Knockgoats, SC, and various recommended literature.

    I’ve told you: everything I know I’ve learned on Pharyngula. :-p

  604. #612 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    (Shaker’s Law knows no exceptions.)

    Not going to happen to me! I choose the date… well, I’ll have to put a jury together and then write to the members for a date they can agree on. I have to submit the thesis till June 30th, but that’s a long time away.

    I won’t even have to resort to the next comic…

    This, however, is just beautiful.

  605. #613 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Thanks, ‘Tis!

    Two towns to the east is Mystic,…

    Um, dude, I know Mystic. :)

    Of all the local restaurants I like The Fisherman in Groton Long Point the best. But it’s easy to get lost going there if you’re not familiar with the area.

    Never been. Shouldn’t be a problem with a GPS. BTW, what’s your email again?

  606. #614 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Most of the others are on a cruise in the area of the earthquake / possible tsunamis.

    A tsunami at sea isn’t too bad. It’s basically a long, high swell that a ship can easily ride over. It’s when the tsunami comes into shallow water that the wave builds and breaks.

  607. #615 David Marjanovi?
    February 27, 2010

    and various recommended literature.

    See? :-) I’ve never managed to follow any such recommendation.

    One minute. You beat me by one minute. But I mentioned it in a better context.

    I’ll check it out (and go to bed). :-)

  608. #616 'Tis Himself, OM
    February 27, 2010

    BTW, what’s your email again?

    smuckitelli at gmail dot com.

  609. #617 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    This, however, is just beautiful.

    Ooh. I love that!

  610. #618 Walton
    February 27, 2010

    ‘Tis Himself @#610: Your list of restaurants is making me hungry. :-(

    (I had a nice low-fat, healthy chicken korma for dinner, containing only 400 calories. Unfortunately, I now seem to be craving more food, perhaps as a substitute for sleep. I’ve been trying to keep my food intake within sane levels, but it’s hard to concentrate on studying when I keep getting hunger pangs.)

  611. #619 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    SC @607: The high percentage of mormons on Dancing With the Stars is a fascinating cultural conundrum (I think Dancing with the Stars has a higher mormon component than So You Think You Can Dance, though both are heavily flavored with mormons). Ex-mormon Bob McCue speculates:

    Dogmatic religions tend to be conservative. That is, they resist most change. Mormonism exemplifies this. Each major change must be approved by 15 ancient, white males. This guarantees that evolution will proceed at glacial pace. Young people are only encouraged to innovate within the playing field established by institutional authority. This produces artistic prodigies like The Osmonds, and the occasional finalist on American Idol and So You Think You Can Dance.

    For more on McCue’s essay that ties narrow artistic tastes to communities steeped in dogma, see http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon554.htm

    I think McCue is correct, but I would add a another factor: mormon networking skills. You get one or two successful mormons into an organization and they’ll bring fellow mormons on board. Let’s look at Julianne Hough and her brother Derek:

    Julianne Marie Hough was born on July 20, 1988, in Provo, Utah, and is one of five children. Julianne is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Mormon Church. She is a professional ballroom dancer featured on the television show, Dancing with the Stars. Julianne won the competition her first year on the show, dancing with and coaching Apolo Anton Ohno, the Olympic speed skater….
         Julianne comes from a family of dancers. Her brother, Derek Hough, is also a dancer and is featured on Dancing with the Stars, and her parents and grandparents were competitive dancers. Julianne began her formal training at Center Stage Performing Arts Studio in Orem, Utah, which has also trained several finalists on So You Think You Can Dance. [source: http://www.mormonwiki.com/Julianne_Hough ]

    Note the prevalence of dance studios in Orem, Utah. Which brings us to one more factor: the dance studios seem to be unofficially approved by the Relief Society bigwigs (LDS women) and by the General Authority (LDS men), so, with few artistic outlets that are “godly”, more mormon kids are putting creative energy into dance and singing (within limits, of course). Once they succeed, the church bigwigs take the credit, or claim that LDS family life should get the credit.

    I’ve seen mormon blogs where Donny and Marie Osmond were taken to task for wearing costumes that were not compatible with mormon under garments, but for the most part famous mormons get away with breaking a few rules.

    I think Marie, and later Donny, Osmond ended up on Dancing With the Stars because Juilianne was there. They networked.

    Dancers like Julianne have to push the boundaries a little bit in order to make it to the top, even in a pop-culture-oriented genre. The result is always tension between the desire to succeed and the pressure to maintain a mormon-goodness facade. The favorite mormon interview for women is the one about remaining a virgin until they get married. In 2008, magazines were all over Julianne’s story:

    Dancing with the Stars’s Julianne Hough says that she has been tempted by the excess of Hollywood, but is sticking to her vow to remain a virgin until marriage. …
         ”My dad, whom I’m very close with, will text me, ‘Are you doing the right things, in the right place, at the right time?’” she says. “And it’s usually when I’m someplace I shouldn’t be. So I’ll call him and say, ‘Thanks, I needed to hear that.’”
         ”I tried to go out and mingle with people in the industry and date people, but I felt I was different than most of them,” she says. “I don’t drink, smoke or do drugs, so those things immediately separate me. It’s all very enticing, though.”…

    Julianne now shares an apartment with her live-in boyfriend, and Derek has been linked to many live-free-and-fast women, so there are no current “I’m a virgin” interviews that I can find.

  612. #620 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Uh-oh, I have to take that back about Julianne Hough living with boyfriend Chuck Wicks. Apparently they broke up last November and I missed it! I am, of course, mortified that I have not kept up the sex or non-sex life of Julianne.

  613. #621 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    I am, of course, mortified that I have not kept up the sex or non-sex life of Julianne.

    as you should be! keeping up with the details of the private lives of all mormons is what we’re paying you for, after all! ;-)

  614. #622 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Favorite quote from mormon blog that discusses and judges the private life of Derek Hough: “He should ask himself, ‘What would Joseph Smith do?’”

  615. #623 John Morales
    February 27, 2010

    Walton, 400 Calories ain’t much of a dinner. No wonder you feel hungry.

  616. #624 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Our favorite mormon apostle of inanity spoke at Harvard yesterday. Elder Oaks at Harvard: Higher education marginalizes religion

    … Elder Oaks, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said, “My object is to illuminate several premises and ways of thinking that are at the root of some misunderstandings about our doctrine and practice.”
         Elder Oaks acknowledged that LDS doctrines and values are not widely understood by those not of the LDS faith, and said that his disappointment with that “is only slightly reduced” by research that shows “that on the subject of religion Americans in general are ‘deeply religious’ but ‘profoundly ignorant.’”
         Elder Oaks was introduced by Harvard law professor Mary Ann Glendon, the faculty adviser for the LDS student group (Harvard Law School does not have an LDS professor). Glendon is a devout Catholic and former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.
         Elder Oaks said the higher education system was partly to blame for prevailing ignorance about many aspects of Christianity and other religions.
         ”Many factors contribute to our people’s predominant shallowness on the subject of religion, but one of them is surely higher education’s general hostility or indifference to religion,” he said. “Despite most colleges’ and universities’ founding purpose to produce clergymen and to educate in the truths taught in their chapels, most have now abandoned their role of teaching religion.
         ”With but few exceptions, colleges and universities have become value-free places where attitudes toward religion are neutral at best. Some faculty and administrators are powerful contributors to the forces that are driving religion to the margins of American society. Students and other religious people who believe in the living reality of God and moral absolutes are being marginalized.”
         ”(I)t seems unrealistic to expect higher education as a whole to resume a major role in teaching moral values,” Elder Oaks said. “The academy can pretend to neutrality on questions of right and wrong, but society cannot survive on such neutrality.”…
         ”We affirm that marriage is necessary for the accomplishment of God’s plan, to provide the approved setting for mortal birth and to prepare family members for eternal life.
         ”There are many political, legal and social pressures for changes that de-emphasize the importance or change the definition of marriage, confuse gender or homogenize the differences between men and women that are essential to accomplish God’s great plan of happiness. Our eternal perspective sets us against such changes.”…
         Ben DeVan, a student at the Harvard Divinity School, asked Elder Oaks what made Mormon revelation different from revelation received by Muslim founder Muhammad and Mary Baker Eddy, founder of the Christian Science movement.
         ”If you want to know, go to the ultimate source,” Oaks replied. “The answer to that question can only come from God himself. That’s what I encourage anyone who asks me about it. … I can’t promise when it will happen with anyone, but I can promise it will happen.”…

  617. #625 Carlie
    February 27, 2010

    I had a nice low-fat, healthy chicken korma for dinner, containing only 400 calories. Unfortunately, I now seem to be craving more food, perhaps as a substitute for sleep.

    Possibly, or because that’s not nearly enough calories for a 20 year old male. Seriously, you shouldn’t be starving yourself for any reason if you can afford to eat. If you’re obsessed about your weight, just make sure whatever you eat is mostly nutrient-dense and go for walks. All that never eating enough to be satisfied will do is make your body hoard calories when it does get them and give you a really messed-up mental relationship with food. {/mom voice]

  618. #626 Jadehawk, OM
    February 27, 2010

    former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.

    didn’t even know such a thing existed…

    With but few exceptions, colleges and universities have become value-free places where attitudes toward religion are neutral at best.

    because tolerance, understanding, communication and desire for knowledge are not values *facepalm*

  619. #627 Carlie
    February 27, 2010

    David – this was the first literal video. It’s fantastic. I went around singing “band montaaaaage” for days. Someone made a t-shirt.

    (Yes, I’m aware that personal nostalgia has a big role to play here.)

  620. #628 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Lynna – Thanks! Far more information than I could’ve hoped for!

    ‘Tis:

    A tsunami at sea isn’t too bad. It’s basically a long, high swell that a ship can easily ride over. It’s when the tsunami comes into shallow water that the wave builds and breaks.

    Thanks. Of course, I spent time this afternoon googling things like “poseiden adventure possible.”

    :/

    Oh – another random question: Have you seen Masquerade (the one with Rob Lowe)? I always thought it was underrated, and never understood why it wasn’t on TV, but would be interested to know if competitive sailors laugh at it…

  621. #629 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    So typical:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-goldberg/religulous-dogma_b_477533.html

    Best response (in the comments), by PalmPete:

    You have told us what you don’t believe in, and it seems you are closer to atheism than christianity.
    Try telling a christian fundamentalist your views and you will be damned as an apostate.

    You have told us what you don’t believe in, but you have not said what you do believe in.
    This is a regular response to Hitchens and Dawkins “Thats not my god they’re talking about”

    Tell us what you do believe, present the evidence that supports your belief and then maybe it can be discussed and compared to other positions. We could then decide wether, or no, the atheists criticisms apply to yourbeliefs. At the moment there is insufficent information to make any discussion worthwhile.

  622. #630 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    Stephanie Z., historical ignoramus and all-around idiot (we’re not talking about workers at a capitalist firm but volunteers at a nonprofit):

    Pierce, even in union negotiations, the staff doesn’t get to determine who management is. It’s never on the table.

    Posted by: Stephanie Z | February 27, 2010 6:16 PM

  623. #631 windy
    February 27, 2010

    A review of Religulous? Way to stay current, PuffPo. But I shouldn’t complain, I’m only watching Flock of Dodos for the first time now…

  624. #632 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    Flock of Dodos

    meh

    Sgt. Z should read the interesting Notebook column in Harper’s this month about the German system of works councils and co-determined boards. Very interesting indeed.

  625. #633 windy
    February 27, 2010

    meh indeed

  626. #634 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    #614 ‘Tis Himself, OM

    I agree with your main point about boats in deep water. The waves are barely noticeable, especially as the wavelength from crest to crest is timed in minutes or hours.

    Wind-generated waves usually have period (time between two successive waves) of five to twenty seconds and a wavelength of 100 to 200 meters. A tsunami can have a period in the range of ten minutes to two hours and wavelengths greater than 500 km.

    source:
    http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol204/tsunami.htm

    When you are closer to land, even if you escape the building and breaking waves, you may well have unexpected problems with strong currents from the unusual build-up and drop of water levels. You could also have debris to contend with that has been washed off the land.

    Small boat + big tree torn off the land by vigorous currents = problems!

  627. #635 Alan B
    February 27, 2010

    Last thing I heard was tsunamis from the Chile earthquake were a bit of a damp squib – nothing seen at Hawaii around the expected time.

    I’m to bed – there’ll be more tomorrow, no doubt.

  628. #636 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    Walton, 400 calories is not enough for a guy studying all day.If you eat and know you will be studying or working out after your meal, I suggest to at least add enough vegetables to your meal to make you feel full, or small amount rice/potatoes/pasta( what east-germans used to call Saettigungsbeilage),alternatively a protein drink or jogurt, because otherwise your body will burn muscle to make energy.

  629. #637 Lynna, OM
    February 27, 2010

    Lynna – Thanks! Far more information than I could’ve hoped for!

    Yeah, my brothers say you have to be careful about asking me questions. I might answer. :-)

  630. #638 SC OM
    February 27, 2010

    what east-germans used to call Saettigungsbeilage

    Unfortunately, calling it that aloud burns off the calories in question.

  631. #639 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 27, 2010

    Yeah, Walton. FFS just eat a damn sandwich or something. I’m on a liquid diet sometimes for a week or ten days at a time, and I can find ways to get more than 400 calories a day.

  632. #640 Sven DiMilo
    February 27, 2010

    Saettigungsbeilage

    Gesundheit!

  633. #641 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 27, 2010

    OK–While I’m thinking of Walton studying and DM with his upcoming defense, I’m feeling all kinds of nostalgic. The awesomest, craziest 6 months of my life was just prior to my defense. There is nothing so wonderful as being obsessed with a project and working every day on it until your brain gives out–food in mouth, 4-6 hours of sleeping like the dead, and back at it as soon as the old brain comes back online. I hadn’t had a television through the rest of my grad career (or actually, really since I was fledged from the parental nest), but if you need to turn that brain off for forty-winks, nothing will do the trick better than late night TV–someone gave me one ~4 months before my defense and it did wonders getting me to sleep. . A few years later, I’m all familied up, and if I tried that shit again, I am reasonably sure that they would leave my strange ass.

  634. #642 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    I’m trying to find an english therm that best describes Saettigungsbeilage, essentially it means something down the line of “something you add to your plate only to make you * “.

    Where * signifies the fact that there doesn’t seem to be a word in the english language other than “full” that says “my stomach is filled to the point that I am not hungry anymore” .

    The awesomest, craziest 6 months of my life was just prior to my defense

    What’s a defense ?
    And this retro in pink view of your past lifetime is quite common, to me it just always feels as if any time was better then the now….:-)

  635. #643 Diane G.
    February 27, 2010

    Thesis defense?

  636. #644 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010

    Thesis defense?

    Ah, I see !

    Walton, don’t try this when you’re hungry :

    Health warning over calories in cinema food

  637. #645 Rorschach
    February 27, 2010
  638. #646 boygenius
    February 27, 2010

    Where * signifies the fact that there doesn’t seem to be a word in the english language other than “full” that says “my stomach is filled to the point that I am not hungry anymore” .

    Satiated?

  639. #647 Odonata
    February 27, 2010

    @ 644 & 645
    Speaking of popcorn, now it comes in beer flavor.

  640. #648 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010

    This place is deserted

    deserted

    deserted

    deserted

    music?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2kUySnZ-Jw

  641. #649 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010

    that one suggests more Wayne Shorter…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3eazN2mzuU&feature=related

  642. #651 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010
  643. #652 Jadehawk, OM
    February 28, 2010

    I made a chicken pot pie for dinner today. it was tasty, but I think I’m gonna explode…

  644. #653 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010

    too hip for the room?

    *shrug*

    why there’s Blade again!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0rc52uu1AQ&feature=related

  645. #654 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010

    Joshua Redman’s father Dewey plays on this one
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blKYD-BNMuo

  646. #655 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s
    February 28, 2010

    Nah, Sven, I’m here, catching up on the Mormon gossip. I have no idea why I

    Hey! I just heard a barn owl! Too cool!

    um, why I find it so entertaining, but I do. Maybe it’s because I spent 16 years in Catholic school and believed with all my heart until I didn’t anymore, and somehow it’s good to hear that there are other ways of stupidifying oneself. Or maybe it’s like IDing roadkill. Anyway. Thanks, Lynna.

    Utah used to say that the most radical thing in the world is a long memory. That tat on his arm is a locomotive, btw. If it wasn’t “Moose Turd Pie” that I linked, go find it. I’m too crosseyed to make links just now.

    Walton, ferfucksake eat some food. You’re what, 20? You need low-fat chow? Hmm. I can bear witness, as an old night nurse, that not sleeping makes you want to eat. You don’t have to sleep at night, but you do have to sleep.

    Here, some crossover pop.

  647. #656 boygenius
    February 28, 2010

    too hip for the room?

    Not for this cat. Carry on, Daddy-o.

  648. #657 Rorschach
    February 28, 2010

    Sorry, but I had a Cricket game to watch ! Australia lost to New Zealand by a whisker in a real nailbiter, game was tied after 20 overs each, and a “Super over” decided.

    I made a chicken pot pie for dinner today.

    I don’t know what that is, but you have obviously been assimilated into the american food culture !! Although I have to say my few attempts at cooking german, or even just carb/veg/meat or fish, for ex were not received very enthusiastically either.

  649. #658 Jadehawk, OM
    February 28, 2010

    I don’t know what that is, but you have obviously been assimilated into the american food culture !!

    I assimilate recipes from every culture I can get my hands on. and there’s nothing wrong with traditional american food culture (mmmm…. clam chowder… cornbread… philly cheese steak… but I digress), it’s the fact that it’s a dying culture that’s the problem. Americans are shooting themselves in the foot with their disregard for their own cultural heritage.

    first attempt at a chicken pot pie ever, and it turned out pretty well. it’s basically a shell of fluffy dough filled with chicken, thick sauce, and veggies, baked in the oven. yumyum.

  650. #659 Jadehawk, OM
    February 28, 2010

    oh yeah, and my own food heritage is polish, not german. i can’t think of a single traditionally german food that I know how to make…

  651. #660 Rorschach
    February 28, 2010

    I assimilate recipes from every culture I can get my hands on.

    That’s pretty easy down here in a country with immigrants from every corner of the globe, and I do it all the time, but then, I love cooking !
    But when I’m sick or hungover or in a bad mood, it’s back to Huehnerfrikassee, Kartoffel-Lauch Auflauf and Zwiebelkuchen !
    ;)

  652. #661 Jadehawk, OM
    February 28, 2010

    But when I’m sick or hungover or in a bad mood…

    chicken soup; the worlds only true comfort food.

  653. #662 llewelly
    February 28, 2010

    Knockgoats | February 27, 2010 11:01 AM:

    And people who are successful seek to pass on to their children whatever advantages they have gained in life. – Walton

    What a narrow view of humanity you have, Walton!

    With regard to material advantages, whether I leave anything to him is really not important to me, provided (as I hope), he’s by then a productive member of society being reasonably recompensed for what he does.

    I have put in bold the most important advantage a parent could hope to pass on to their children.

  654. #663 Walton
    February 28, 2010

    For the avoidance of any concerns: I did, in fact, end up eating a large bowl of cereal before going to bed last night.

    On another note, I’m glad I’m not the only person who finds sports fans incomprehensible:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU&feature=player_embedded

  655. #664 Rorschach
    February 28, 2010

    Random quote currently displayed :

    Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind dying, came to a tranmigrated life in the theology and liturgy of the Church; the Greek language, having reigned for centuries over philosophy, became the vehicle of Christian literature and ritual; the Greek mysteries passed down into the impressive mystery of the Mass. Other pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist result. From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity, the Last Judgement, and a personal immortality of reward and punishment; from Egypt the adoration of the Mother and Child, and the mystic theosophy that made Neoplatonism and Gnosticism, and obscured the Christian creed; there, too, Christian moanasticism would find itsw exemplars and its source. From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother; from Syria the resurrection drama of Adonis; from Thrace, perhaps the cult of Dionysus, the dying and saving god. From Persia came millennarianism, the “ages of the world,” the “final conflagration,” the dualism of Satan and God, of Darkness and Light; already in the Forth Gospel Christ is the “Light shining in the darkness, and the darkness has never put it out.” The Mithraic ritual so closely resemled the eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass that Christian fathers charged the Devil with inventing these similarities to mislead frail minds. Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient pagan world.

    [Will and Ariel Durant, The Story of Civilization]

    I did, in fact, end up eating a large bowl of cereal before going to bed last night.

    *headdesk*

  656. #665 windy
    February 28, 2010

    So, is it common for a band to thank the “troops” for being able to play? It’s a little distracting… I don’t see any connection to Vietnam, Walter.

  657. #666 Aquaria
    February 28, 2010

    Americans are shooting themselves in the foot with their disregard for their own cultural heritage.

    What cultural heritage, especially with food? Nearly every major cuisine in the country that is edible comes from people who are, or recently were, disdained minorities. When they weren’t virtually wiped out, like the Native Americans.

    American cuisine before the big ethnic trends starting in the 50s/60s, was to cook (usually by boiling) until all flavor is a distant memory. There wasn’t much confidence around the spice cabinet, and it showed. Still does, in way too many parts of the country without heavy ethnic/minority influences.

    So actually, on the food level, America has done itself a favor by rejecting its WASP culture heritage and embracing ethnic diversity. Even small cities like Tyler have

  658. #667 Aquaria
    February 28, 2010

    Ugh–this stupid Macbook. I don’t know how it sent that, but it did.

    Anyway, small cities like Tyler offer a selection of ethnic restaurants: Chinese, Italian (to them that’s ethnic), Thai, Mexican, and Cajun restaurants to go with the fish fry, Southern, BBQ and Steakhouse restaurants.

  659. #668 boygenius
    February 28, 2010

    Ugh–this stupid Macbook. I don’t know how it sent that, but it did.

    Aquaria, I wouldn’t blame your Macbook. I think The Thread cut you off because you were comment #666. The Thread has become cognizant. The Thread is on It’s way to becoming prescient. The Thread is striving for omnipotence.

    Plus, The Thread feels neglected by the pitiful number of comments offered up over the last 8 hours. (The Thread can be petulant when It feels slighted.)

  660. #670 SC OM
    February 28, 2010

    Hate groups in the White House!*

    http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2010/02/freethinker_sunday_sermonette_194.php

    What cultural heritage, especially with food? Nearly every major cuisine in the country that is edible comes from people who are, or recently were, disdained minorities. When they weren’t virtually wiped out, like the Native Americans.

    American cuisine before the big ethnic trends starting in the 50s/60s, was to cook (usually by boiling) until all flavor is a distant memory. There wasn’t much confidence around the spice cabinet, and it showed.

    This is wrong. Here in New England we have a long tradition of regional cooking in addition to great additions and influences from immigrants from around the world (which began long before the 1950s). There are numerous cookbooks available attesting to this.

    *(according to Bill Donohue)

  661. #671 Dania
    February 28, 2010

    chicken soup; the worlds only true comfort food.

    Yes, and one of the few foods containing chicken that I don’t like. :S

    That’s why my preferred comfort food for when I’m feeling sick is my mom’s cod soup (rice, cod, peas, onion…). It’s her chicken soup substitute for people who don’t like chicken soup (i.e., me), and I love it.

  662. #672 David Marjanovi?
    February 28, 2010

    Walton, eat. Your brain is burning sugar at a phenomenal rate, so you need more.

    One way to provide more sugar for the brain is to supply the rest of the body with fat to burn instead (fatty acids somehow don’t get through the blood-brain barrier). If you’re thin like me, worrying about low-fat food is ridiculous at best and clinical anorexia at worst.

    Find out what “sane levels of calorie intake” are by experiment.

    Eat, eat till you’re no longer hungry.

    (Then, however, don’t force yourself to continue. On the other hand, if you get hungry again, just resume eating ? the Western cultural convention of having everything clumped into just 3 meals a day is not really healthy anyway.)

    …And just for the record, I’m hungry right now (surprising as that is after what I just wrote yesterday) and will start to cook as soon as I can peel myself off the computer.

    While I am at it, I think I finally found out why my… biceps… bicipites are at all visible even though I’m not getting any exercise other than walking and running (they’re still small, but a bit larger than I’d expect from there simply not being any fat above them): it must come from holding the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology to my eye level up to 4 times a day, up to 10 minutes in a row (in the Métro). One issue has, like, 370 pages; it’s almost A4 format (probably it’s US Letter), and the paper is shiny and heavy. X-D

    Favorite quote from mormon blog that discusses and judges the private life of Derek Hough: “He should ask himself, ‘What would Joseph Smith do?’”

    Well, what would he do? He’d marry them all where they stand, and quickly proceed to the marital duties. Wouldn’t he.

    David – this was the first literal video. It’s fantastic. I went around singing “band montaaaaage” for days.

    :-D I can imagine!

    Unfortunately, calling it that aloud burns off the calories in question.

    ROTFL!

    So true, so true… It’s either communist bureaucratic terminology or a parody thereof (Poe’s Law applies).

    The awesomest, craziest 6 months of my life was just prior to my defense. There is nothing so wonderful as being obsessed with a project and working every day on it until your brain gives out–

    Won’t happen to me. I have to submit the finished thesis long before the defense, so that the jury members can read it all and so that the two bureaucracies can keep up.

    Satiated?

    Yes, except that that’s not what anyone ever says. It’s almost a technical term. Satt is an everyday word.

    Huehnerfrikassee,

    Sounds edible…

    Kartoffel-Lauch[-]Auflauf

    Perversion. Out of potatoes and leek, you can make a blended soup, but not a… sautée is probably exaggerated…

    and Zwiebelkuchen !

    Onion cake. No further comment necessary.

    (Austrian food is more like Czech and Silesian one. It’s not just the “separated by a common language” factor.)

    chicken soup; the worlds only true comfort food.

    :-)

    You should meet my grandmother. Even my bizarrely soup-o-phobic sister eats that chicken soup.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU&feature=player_embedded

    :-D :-D :-D

    Pure genius.

    I did, in fact, end up eating a large bowl of cereal before going to bed last night.

    *headdesk*

    Seconded.

    So, is it common for a band to thank the “troops” for being able to play? It’s a little distracting… I don’t see any connection to Vietnam, Walter.

    Wrong thread. I think you’re using an RSS reader. :->

    Nearly every major cuisine in the country that is edible comes from people who are, or recently were, disdained minorities.

    Wiener Schnitzel comes from upperclass Renaissance cuisine from Milan. In fact, the difference between the medieval cuisine of Europe (which survives in England) and the later one is more or less entirely due the innovative Milanese upperclass, Catarina de’ Medici in particular (because she married the king of France).

    Yes, and one of the few foods containing chicken that I don’t like. :S

    Yet another invitation to my grandmother’s.

  663. #673 David Marjanovi?
    February 28, 2010

    It’s not just the “separated by a common language” factor

    …that distinguishes Germany and Austria, I mean.

  664. #674 windy
    February 28, 2010

    Wrong thread. I think you’re using an RSS reader. :->

    No and no… Are you implying that comments in the Thread can be off topic? Heretic!

  665. #675 Walton
    February 28, 2010

    If you’re thin like me, worrying about low-fat food is ridiculous at best and clinical anorexia at worst.

    I’m not that thin: when I most recently weighed myself, I was about 62 kg (at 1.72 metres height), which is a BMI of about 20-21, putting me right in the middle of the “healthy weight” range. That was about a month ago, and I’m not sure if my weight has changed.

    But what worries me is the difference in my exercise levels. During the holidays, when I’m at home, I go to the gym at least four times a week, run several km. a week on the treadmill, and do some intensive weight training. By contrast, during this term, I’ve been so busy that I’ve barely been going to the gym at all, and have basically stopped weight-training altogether. This week, I haven’t been to the gym since Monday (and it’s now Sunday), and have been doing no exercise other than walking to various places.

  666. #676 Walton
    February 28, 2010

    I now seem to be inadvertently abusing the endless thread as a combination of a running commentary of my life, a therapy session, and a fitness advice centre. :-\

  667. #677 Dania
    February 28, 2010

    By contrast, during this term, I’ve been so busy

    And if you don’t eat enough, you’re just going to feel even more exhausted. You may be exercising less, but your brain needs energy too. David is right: eat whenever you’re hungry… and till you’re no longer hungry.

  668. #678 Aquaria
    February 28, 2010

    This is wrong. Here in New England we have a long tradition of regional cooking in addition to great additions and influences from immigrants from around the world (which began long before the 1950s). There are numerous cookbooks available attesting to this.

    New England–or Boston?

    And when did New England = all of America?

    Cuisine was bad in most of America, because most of America didn’t live in or near cities to enjoy their enormous ethnic diversity before the 40s/50s. That has changed, and to the better.

    If you look at the average person’s cookbooks, not the gourmet fare, they’re stuffed to the rafters with exceedingly boring American “classics,” and pathetic attempts at European cuisine. You won’t find burritos in there. You won’t find Stir-fry. You won’t find sofrito.

    I’ve inherited or bought a lot of these plain-jane cookbooks of the 50s–Betty Crocker, Pillsbury, Better Homes & Gardens. You just don’t find much variety in them. Now are there small-print books that did well? Sure. But not as well as these, the books that most of the average women used.

    Wiener Schnitzel comes from upperclass Renaissance cuisine from Milan. In fact, the difference between the medieval cuisine of Europe (which survives in England) and the later one is more or less entirely due the innovative Milanese upperclass, Catarina de’ Medici in particular (because she married the king of France).

    You’d be amazed at how many Americans think of a hot dog when you say Wiener Schnitzel, not a dish of breaded veal.

  669. #679 Lynna, OM
    February 28, 2010

    From SC’s link @670, in which people like Bill Donahue are complaining that President Obama had the effrontery to actually invite secularists to the White House:

    For the period April 2001 through June 2006, Focus on the Family Founder and Chairman Emeritus James Dobson visited the White House 24 times; 10 of those visits were to President Bush.
         Andrea Lafferty, Executive Director of the Traditional Values Coalition, made an astonishing 50 visits to the White House starting on February 1, 2001, and continuing through March 16, 2008. Six of those visits were to President Bush.
         The late Jerry Falwell, of Jerry Falwell Ministries, made eight visits to the White House between May 2001 and September 2004. Three of those visits were to President Bush.

  670. #680 Matt Penfold
    February 28, 2010

    Walton,

    To add to what others have said, there is research that shows that learning ability is degraded when the brain does not have sufficient energy. Further, it seems that one is not always aware that this is the case.

    So the answer is clear. When studying make sure you eat enough. Take regular breaks to take on food – taking breaks is a good idea anyway for a number of other reason. Even have Mars Bar to keep you going.

  671. #681 Lynna, OM
    February 28, 2010

    And God said to go forth and MULTIPLY! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/nyregion/21yitta.html?em

    WHEN Yitta Schwartz died last month at 93, she left behind 15 children, more than 200 grandchildren and so many great- and great-great-grandchildren that, by her family?s count, she could claim perhaps 2,000 living descendants…

  672. #682 David Marjanovi?
    February 28, 2010

    Are you implying that comments in the Thread can be off topic? Heretic!

    <cowering in corner and whimpering>

    But what worries me is the difference in my exercise levels. During the holidays, when I’m at home, I go to the gym at least four times a week, run several km. a week on the treadmill, and do some intensive weight training.

    Man. If that is the case, you have an immense muscle mass*, which means your BMI is completely misleading ? that extra weight you’re carrying around isn’t fat, it’s muscle! And you’ll lose it if you don’t get enough carbohydrates.

    * I really need to stop comparing you to myself. Looks like you’re more like Timothy… whatever, the actor of the latest Spiderman films.

    I now seem to be inadvertently abusing the endless thread as a combination of a running commentary of my life, a therapy session, and a fitness advice centre. :-\

    :-)

    If we don’t do that for you, who will? :-)

    You’d be amazed at how many Americans think of a hot dog when you say Wiener Schnitzel, not a dish of breaded veal.

    Ah, so they think of Wiener Würstchen, the sausages that are called Frankfurter in Austria. (They were invented in one place by a butcher named after the other place.)

    (BTW, it’s usually pork. Veal is expensive, except apparently in France, where the cafeteria buries us in it. O_o )

  673. #683 David Marjanovi?
    February 28, 2010

    Even have Mars Bar to keep you going.

    Just not a deep-fried one X-D

  674. #684 Matt Penfold
    February 28, 2010

    Just not a deep-fried one X-D

    I have been in Fish and Chip shops where they were on sale, but have never had the courage (been stupid. (or drunk) enough/valued my arteries to much) to try one.

  675. #685 Lynna, OM
    February 28, 2010

    Richard Dawkins has gone to the trouble of designing a test for homeopathic medicines. His proposed test is in response to the press coverage of a report issued by The British House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology — a report on homeopathy, recommending that “The Government should stop allowing the funding of homeopathy on the [National Health Service].” Dawkins’ purpose is to encourage that the recommendations of the report be adopted. He gives contact info so people can write, and he proposes dealing a final blow to homeopathy. Scroll down to “Here’s my experimental design” to see the test: http://www.richarddawkins.net/articles/5139

    The experiment I have proposed is not technically difficult, and it wouldn?t cost very much money, as medical research goes. Prince Charles, whose backing of homeopathy has greatly helped it to achieve the degree of respectability that it enjoys in Britain, including NHS support, could easily afford to fund the research. He should do so. Nothing in the experiment I have described violates his preference for a ?holistic? approach to medicine. On the contrary, my design bends over backwards to accommodate it, even allowing the treatment prescribed to every patient to be uniquely tailored to that individual.

  676. #686 Walton
    February 28, 2010

    Man. If that is the case, you have an immense muscle mass*, which means your BMI is completely misleading ? that extra weight you’re carrying around isn’t fat, it’s muscle! And you’ll lose it if you don’t get enough carbohydrates.

    Well, I possibly created an exaggerated impression when I said “intensive” weight-training. I don’t particularly have lots of muscle mass – my upper body strength is really not that great – and I’ve certainly lost quite a bit over the last month or so. But yes, my body fat is, I suspect, fairly low as a proportion of my overall weight (though this is an educated guess, as I haven’t had it measured recently).

  677. #687 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010
  678. #688 Lynna, OM
    February 28, 2010

    Walton, I agree with David M. that the habit of eating just three times per day, at set times, is not the best plan for your body. It’s better to eat about five small meals. And younger men may need to add snacks to the five-meal regimen.

  679. #689 Lynna, OM
    February 28, 2010

    Sven @687: very nice portcullis!

  680. #690 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 28, 2010

    Mmmmmm… buried in veal. Delicious, maltreated dead baby cow.

  681. #691 Lynna, OM
    February 28, 2010

    Ex-mormon “Cricket” redefines some mormon terms:

    Uma and Thurman : The device through which Joseph Smith received the revelation to kill William “Bill” Law with a flaming sword and fulfill the law of Blood Atonement.
         Tithing Sediment: LDS Church funds used to built the City Creek Mall on a major geological fault line in Salt Lake City.
         Ther-MO-dynamics: 1. (from the Reformed Egytpian, therme, meaning “heat in the bosom” and, dunamis, meaning “power in the priesthood”) is a splinter group of philosophy and of religion that reveals the effects of changes in doctrine, peer pressure, and volume of hot air at the general conference scale by analyzing the collective motion of their particles of faith using statistics. 2. The total entropy of any isolated cult system tends to increase over time, approaching a maximum value as evidenced by the aging gero-theocracy of its governing body.
         Testimonium: Most basic and common of all elements composing the planet Kolob. Mormon male sex hormone

  682. #692 Walton
    February 28, 2010

    @#690: Please, please, please let’s not get into an animal rights argument. Please. My poor brain can’t handle it right now. :-)

  683. #693 Matt Penfold
    February 28, 2010

    Sven @687: very nice portcullis!

    I have always been rather taken with idea of murder holes you find in castle gates protected by a pair (or more, I know of one Castle that had five portcullis in one gate). Suffice to say anyone making the mistake of attacking the main gate was going to have a bad day.

  684. #694 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 28, 2010

    The many small meals is also recommended for us older folks. The small meal may only be piece of jello with fruit, or more of a snack.

  685. #695 SC OM
    February 28, 2010

    New England–or Boston?

    New England.

    And when did New England = all of America?

    You’re the one who referred to “American cuisine before the big ethnic trends starting in the 50s/60s.” This ignores local/regional cuisines completely. They are part of “American cuisine.” They have also been influenced by immigrants and world trade for centuries.

    Cuisine was bad in most of America,

    Evidence?

    because most of America didn’t live in or near cities to enjoy their enormous ethnic diversity before the 40s/50s. That has changed, and to the better.

    In fact, 50% of the US population lived in cities by 1920. And there are of course immigrant populations outside of cities. And there are local cooking traditions outside of cities.

    If you look at the average person’s cookbooks, not the gourmet fare, they’re stuffed to the rafters with exceedingly boring American “classics,” and pathetic attempts at European cuisine.

    Who is “the average person”?

    [Incidentally, I was arguing with a friend of mine once when he was sneering at the alleged lack of a culinary tradition in the US. He started listing urban chefs who were coming in and shaking things up, including David Bouley. I informed him that Bouley is from eastern Connecticut and was most powerfully influenced by her:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelma_Simmons

    and her rural herb farm.]

  686. #696 windy
    February 28, 2010

    When I hear ‘Wiener’ I think of what Americans call a ‘Danish’.

  687. #697 Sili
    February 28, 2010

    Mmmmmm… buried in veal. Delicious, maltreated dead baby cow.

    Well, duh!

    Only human babbies are supposed to be eaten alive.

    But, yeah, wienerschnitzel = pork. Though I was just informed that I’ve been eatin’ it rong. No horseraddish or capers – and I’ve prolly forgotten a coupa other garnishes.

  688. #698 windy
    February 28, 2010

    Speak of the devil…

  689. #699 Antiochus Epiphanes
    February 28, 2010

    Aquaria–Respectfully, discounting Native American foods, all other American cuisine is historically chimeric…blends of immigrant cuisines using local ingredients. Think of the creole dishes of Nawlins and Galveston as good examples. Or Tex-Mex, NY vs. Chicago style Pizza, KC, Memphis, NC, Tex style barbeque, the cheese-steak, soul food, buffalo wings or pasties, or…blah, blah, blah. Just because these recipes were not in the Betty Crocker pantheon, doesn’t mean that people weren’t eating them.

  690. #700 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010

    When I hear “Wiener” I think of hot dogs, but made the way my mom used to sometimes, slit lengthwise and stuffed with cheese.

    When I hear “Frankfurter” I think of the SCOTUS.

    When I hear “Danish” I think of women’s curling.
    Recently, anyway.

  691. #701 SC OM
    February 28, 2010

    I’ve inherited or bought a lot of these plain-jane cookbooks of the 50s

    I guess no one cooked before the ’50s.

  692. #702 Sven DiMilo
    February 28, 2010

    Truly American cuisine would be made from truly American food items.
    http://chestofbooks.com/food/recipes/Epicurian/Recipes-For-Terrapin-Terrapene.html

    btw, speaking of old cookbooks, according to Fannie Farmer (1918):

    Frogs and terrapin belong to a lower order of animals than fish,?reptiles.

    and this under the heading “II. Crustaceans”

  693. #703 PZ Myers
    February 28, 2010

    Continued elsewhere. Move along.