Pharyngula

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 10:39 PM

I love that video.

Who else made wishes on dandelions as a kid?

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 24, 2010 10:41 PM

We've crossed over into the next annual dimension of Teh Thread! Merry Threadmas Day Pharyngulistas!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMnKuiHRCig#t=1m59s

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 10:42 PM

My own grandmother struggled with severe depression after the death of my mom. She, too, was a strong, self-sufficient type. She, too, confided in a friend that she was so lonely and so upset that she felt like "taking a bunch of pills and going to sleep and not waking up anymore." The friend told my uncle, and my uncle did something rather perceptive, given that he is far from being a perceptive man... he bought her a tiny white kitten. My grandmother did not feel like living for herself, but she could not die and leave her kitten to be found alone. I know, it's weird, but I've felt the same way... if something happened to me, who knows what would happen to my kitties.

Anyway, my uncle did take her to the doctor, and she got a re-evaluation of her existing meds, which proved to be contributing to her state of mind. With different prescriptions and dosages, and a gentle antidepressant, she was able to turn things around and function. It all happened gradually, and she had a few bad days before she was well. The kitten helped take her mind off of her troubles.

Grandma now laughs at herself for being depressed... well, she was always very hard on herself, a terrible family failing... but at least now she is laughing and not crying.

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy | February 24, 2010 10:44 PM

So, how 'bout that Watchmen movie, huh?

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 10:48 PM

I love how the stamens wave around after anthesis!

What did the stamen say to impress the pistil?

You've got style!

Har! Botany Wednesday rocks almost as much as drink coffee and fsck around Sunday.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 10:51 PM

I'm a time-travelling space zombie from the future.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 24, 2010 10:53 PM

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Heck, no... Some of the nicest people I know are traveeling space zombies from the future.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 24, 2010 10:54 PM

Heck, no... Some of the nicest people I know are traveeling space zombies from the future.

Many of my friends are time-traveling space zombies. I let them use my bathroom, too.

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 10:57 PM

Happy Threadiversary!

Trying to link to Dr Michael White's "Give It Up (Gypsy second Line)," to no avail.

:(

Posted by: Dahan | February 24, 2010 10:58 PM

Well I for one, welcome the new year of this endless thread. Type away people. I just lurk on these things. I can't keep up.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 11:00 PM

I had a childhood friend who was a time-traveling space zombie. I lost touch with him until just last week, when I met him again for the first time.

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 11:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=izappw9TS8M&v=kymtsMQur1A

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 11:10 PM

SC OM, this is the first time I've ever heard of Gogol Bordello.

Fucking amazing. Yay!

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 24, 2010 11:13 PM

Enjoy Threadmas guys and gals. I'm off to bed.

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 11:24 PM

(PZ deleted my FAUST POST. I thought I was being cleverly annoying, but no, apparently not clever.)

I'm going out for the night. I'm probably going to visit my friend tomorrow, and if so I'll find out who her health insurance provider is, so we can start looking for therapists who accept that provider.

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 24, 2010 11:34 PM

PZ deleted my FAUST POST. I thought I was being cleverly annoying, but no, apparently not clever.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 24, 2010 11:41 PM

Oink!

Moo?

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 11:47 PM

SC OM, this is the first time I've ever heard of Gogol Bordello.

Fucking amazing. Yay!

This is probably their best known:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkkIwO_X4i4&feature=PlayList&p=A277CB450121B504&index=0&playnext=1

Enjoy!

Posted by: SC OM | February 25, 2010 12:05 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch#v=zOWx5G76pkU&feature=related

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 12:17 AM

I deliver the gift of music. Here is some Richard Thompson.

Oop! I Did It Again!

Vincent Black Lightning 1952

When The Spell Is Broken

Posted by: pcarini | February 25, 2010 12:26 AM

I thought I'd jump in here right at the top and say that I really like the SciBlogs discussion thread model. Seriously.

Specifically, I like that it doesn't nest or hide replies the same way a traditional "threaded" discussion board would, forcing me to at least glance at the tangent discussions that are going on. I also like that it loads the entire thing into a single page, which, IMO, improves the flow and continuity. If I want to see whether someone has already said what I'm about to post in a thread, I just have to search the page for relevant terms. (This also keeps me from posting that often, since somebody has usually said what I'm going to say, more eloquently.)

TL;DR: SciBlogs unique discussion format causes the discussions to happen differently than some other format might, and I like the difference.

I'm interested to hear what other people think --

p.s. If they could make the threads better handle 1k+ posts, I'm all for it, but that may just be the price we pay for this thread model.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 25, 2010 12:33 AM

Dang, that was a weird, wasted trip. A little snow on the road, a little falling, no problem to an ex-Yooper. But not to the area drivers. Eventually we are crawling along the Edens at 10-15 mph, and the snow is giving almost white-out conditions. I'm not even half way there, been traveling an hour, and traffic is getting even slower. So I bailed not knowing quite where I was. Cleaned off the car in a Border's parking lot, got my bearings, and headed east. Eventually ran into a familiar north south road, turned north. Meanwhile, it stopped snowing, and the roads were plowed. No traffic to speak of, and no more snow, semi-pleasant drive home. Total travel time, about 2.5 hours, which is a normal down-back time. Just checked the Doppler radar, and the main storm is over downtown Chicago where I was headed. The Redhead will catch a train, and I'll pick her up at the station. But I won't get to bed until 1:30.

Posted by: pcarini | February 25, 2010 12:39 AM

Also: Holy crap! It's been a year of these threads ?!? How often are they being filled up now, every day or two?

re Editing your comments: It should be allowed, but only if a history of the edits is publicly available. As much as I hate the idea of people seeing the mistakes I've fixed, I'd rather not have some troll get away with changing its original post and then accuse people of misquoting it.

Posted by: Bastion Of Sass | February 25, 2010 12:45 AM

Happy Threadiversary to you,
Happy Threadiversary to you,
Happy Threadiversary Endless Thre-a-a-d (and commenters,)
Happy Threadiversary to y-o-o-o-o-ou!

Enjoy your very special day, Endless Thread.

And a Happy Monkey to you all, and to all a good night!!

Posted by: phi1ip | February 25, 2010 12:51 AM

It's nearly 50 posts in and no one has mentioned bacon? Happy Threadiversary everyone...

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 12:56 AM

Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 10:44 PM:

Let's start this off with some more good news! Md. attorney general: State to recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere

Del. Don Dwyer (R-Anne Arundel) said he was convinced Gansler's opinion would be overturned by courts and promised to bring articles of impeachment against the attorney general for trying to usurp Maryland law, which strictly defines marriage as only between a man and a woman.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 25, 2010 1:07 AM

I'm pretty sure that by now no-one cares. Just in case, though - my apologies to Wowbagger.

That's fine, Cath - it was the source of some fun conversation, which is worth the momentary confusion it caused.

It also made me wonder whether or not someone could (or would) ever attempt to pass themselves off in real life as one of the regulars here - and, if they did, whether or not it'd be appropriate to refer to them as fauxryngulites...

Posted by: elzoog | February 25, 2010 1:28 AM

You guys might find this site funny:

http://www.jakearchibald.co.uk/homeopathy/

It fits religious thinking to a T!

Posted by: onethird-man | February 25, 2010 1:37 AM

Not sure if the news had broken on a to-be-published-in-March sociology paper on atheism and liberalism. Or on what anyone had thought about it.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 1:43 AM

Person at #53.

Do you mean this? The last time I saw him live was in 2002. Yeah, even under the conditions you are talking about, he is well worth it.

Dark End Of The Street

The Poor Ditching Boy

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 25, 2010 1:58 AM

(PZ deleted my FAUST POST. I thought I was being cleverly annoying, but no, apparently not clever.)

llewely @52: Yeah, I saw that bit of chip-on-my-shoulder macho posturing by Dwyer. His mind is so narrow that he thinks only in two dimensions.

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 2:08 AM

AJ Milne | February 24, 2010 11:08 PM:

4. Nothing makes your point like RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS in your ARGUMENT.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 25, 2010 2:10 AM

Mmm. . I'm making potato pancakes. I seem to remember some Pharyngulite hates them. . .

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 25, 2010 2:15 AM

Perfection is overrated.

Except when you add to our perfection, Lynna. Lower your breast plate, and prepare to be assimilated. Your biological and sartorial distinctiveness will be added to our own.

Comply.

/Locutus of Gay

Posted by: onethird-man | February 25, 2010 2:19 AM

...then of course there's this article, saying basically that people have a link between the capability of being miserable and dying:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/ucla-researchers-find-genetic-154129.aspx

...while some mutants don't have this link, which makes me wonder what advantage or selection process was at work that made it so that undergoing stress meant you died sooner...

...additionally, this means "The Secret" would only work for mutants. But not really. It would only look like it did.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 2:36 AM

Covers of RT songs.

How Will I Ever Be Simple Again-Emmylou Harris

Strange Affair-June Tabor

Dimming Of The Day-Mary Black

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 2:40 AM

which makes me wonder what advantage or selection process was at work that made it so that undergoing stress meant you died sooner...

as for the other article... wtf does "unnatural" mean? sounds like someone read too much EP and believed all of their stories... but, IANASociologist (yet?), so ignore my ramblings.

oh, and: "An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals."

does that make me supersmart...? :-p

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 2:43 AM

fauxryngulite

You may look like we do
Talk like we do
But you know how it is

You're not one of us
Not one of us
No you're not one of us
Not one of us
Not one of us
No you're not one of us

Posted by: windy | February 25, 2010 2:46 AM

Happy Threadmas!

What goes better with the holiday: rosé, or Muscat?

(had a bout of spontaneity in the liquor store. I guess it could have been worse.)

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 2:53 AM

"An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals."

This is reassuring. Most of the time, I struggle to get out of bed before about 10 am - though this morning, I forced myself to get up at 7.30, on the basis that I have finals in a couple of months and need to actually do some work.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 25, 2010 2:59 AM

Happy Threadmas !!

the endless thread apparently turns one year old today

You know, that really is scary !! And I guess we should thank PZ for allowing his commenters to have their own "forum" here for so long, I dont take this for granted at all.

Always trust Australians to be wary of changing times and social progress :

Senate votes down same-sex marriage bill

personally I'm kind of hoping he looks like George Clooney

He better, got to have some glamour at your side !!

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 3:11 AM

I knew Cynthia PlasterCaster. I have seen the infamous Jimi Hendrix cast. Though my favorite is Ronnie Barnett of The Muffs. His erection went away while he was "encased" and the cast was a corkscrew. Also, in the nineties, Cynthia did start taking breast casts.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 25, 2010 3:15 AM

Wowbagger

I'd been compared to by others - Rupert Grint (who plays Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter series) or Christopher Walken

.. swoon, Christopher Walken. The thinking woman's sex symbol. You look like him and I unequivocally, absolutely, unconditionally offer here, and now, to have your babies.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 3:26 AM

Sorry, (No Longer A) Bride, but when I think of Walken, I think of that watch.

Posted by: boygenius | February 25, 2010 3:36 AM

Hey, there, BoS. Wowbagger here. I'm posting under a different nym to keep things discreet.

If you're still up for that baby thing, maybe we could meet somewhere?

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 25, 2010 4:02 AM

Walton,

do yourself a favour (I mean it from the bottom of my heart, because you are, I think, a really good guy) : read COLLAPSE by Jared Diamond.

It's easy to read and very passioning book, I'm sure you'll like it.

"Essential reading.... Collapse shows that resilient societies are nimble ones, capable of long-term planning and of abandoning deeply entrenched but ultimately destructive core values and beliefs." - Nature

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 25, 2010 4:21 AM

I get you Caine. I'm nocturnal all the way.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | February 25, 2010 4:30 AM

Most people don't get nocturnal types; there's still a lot of bias.

QFT (at 4:30 in the morning).

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 4:37 AM

Feynmaniac @ 96:

QFT (at 4:30 in the morning).

Heh. 3:37 in the morning here.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 25, 2010 4:43 AM

Not drinking alcohol will do this morning thing to me, up at 7 bright as a button, and then like, WTF am I going to do now, when by 930 you have already jogged, showered, done your shopping, read the paper and done the washing.....
Do that for 3 days in a row and you're positively exhausted !

I'd rather drag my sad self out of bed at 1130 on days off, slump into the computer chair for 2 hours while rehydrating and reading this blog....:-)

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 25, 2010 4:51 AM

I have ALWAYS done my best work at night ( academically wise). I don't think there's a thing/paper/assignment I've ever, in my 20 odd years of tertiary study, not started and completed in the hours between 11 pm and 5 am. I love the quiet, the solitude and the peace ( not to mention the acceptable hours of alcohol consumption).

Altough I now have a day job I'm still quite able, comfortable (and normally do) live on 3-4 hours a night sleep, generally between 2 and 5 ish. Hasn't killed me yet.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 4:55 AM

I have ALWAYS done my best work at night ( academically wise). I don't think there's a thing/paper/assignment I've ever, in my 20 odd years of tertiary study, not started and completed in the hours between 11 pm and 5 am. I love the quiet, the solitude and the peace ( not to mention the acceptable hours of alcohol consumption).

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 4:59 AM

boygenius @ 101:

It's us against the dayists. They think they're soo superior with their paying jobs and such.

My husband's nocturnal too (good thing, otherwise I would have had to kill him) and he's recently had to do the job hunt biz after 19 years. He found a job, but it is 1.5 hours away. He told them straight out, I can't work days. They offered him 4th shift (weekend nights) and he was delighted. Even so, they kept offering dayshift like it was a special prize.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 25, 2010 5:00 AM

It's not so much mornings I hate, it's going to bed early. I almost never go to bed before 1 or 2 am (apparently a huge fucking problem with my ex) but I generally rise at 5 because of the kids.

.. then again I also like to eat at what I consider normal hours ie dinner about 8 and it used to drive me insane that my ex wanted to eat at 6 and go to bed at 8.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 5:03 AM

oh yeah. the boyfriend is a nightowl, too. just applied for a job at the truck stop restaurant for the evening and graveyard shifts. the graveyard shift pays extra, so that's an added bonus :-)

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 5:05 AM

Bride of Shrek OM @ 108:

it used to drive me insane that my ex wanted to eat at 6 and go to bed at 8.

8!? Bed at 8? Holy, I just don't grok that. I start doing my photo editing about that time; I don't get into doing painting until midnight or so.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 25, 2010 5:07 AM

I almost never go to bed before 1 or 2 am (apparently a huge fucking problem with my ex)

*Coughing fit out of nowhere*

It's not so much mornings I hate, it's going to bed early.

Oh, yes that is so true !I hate it when I can't stay up because of early start the next day, and unfortunately I don't function too well if I don't get my 8 hours beauty sleep.
Well, thank dog I can sleep in tomorrow...:-)

*wink with 300 year old giant tree*

Posted by: boygenius | February 25, 2010 5:11 AM

I'm lucky that my neighbors are far enough away that they can't hear my power tools, etc. in the middle of the night. I have my most productive hours out in the shop in the middle of the night. Just me and NPR. And sawdust.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 5:15 AM

oh eww, why?! did you have to be somewhere that early? because if not, there's no point in getting up early. do whatever you were planning on doing when you're actually functional.

I don't have anywhere I have to go today, except a lecture at 3pm, but I thought I should get up early and study, as I didn't do any work yesterday, and finals are drawing ever closer.

(By way of background: my whole degree is assessed at the end. This summer, I have nine three-hour exams over the period of a couple of weeks, and this accounts for my entire degree: no coursework and no modular exams, just the final exams. So I have a good reason to be stressed, even though they're a couple of months away.)

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 5:17 AM

Better to get up at an hour when you know you'll be functional and productive.

I'm very rarely functional and productive. This is the major problem with my life.

Posted by: JeffreyD | February 25, 2010 5:21 AM

I have not posted much lately, occupied with a few other issues, but in playing catch-up Strange Gods" post about a potentially suicidal friend in Thread Shatner caught my eye.

I am far from an expert on suicide, but do have some experience. I would suggest moving quickly to seek help, but do not assume you can ease off once she is seeing someone. In my personal case everyone relaxed a bit when she went into therapy only to have her kill herself soon after. Therapy had seemed to work, she was more stable, happier. In some way the therapy may have contributed, i.e., the realization that her disorder was forever and might as well end it. Not knocking the therapist, he is in fact a friend of my shrink, and I think did everything he could. It was very hard to accept that there just may not have been a way to stop her from killing herself short of a 24 hour a day armed guard. What I took from this, and am making a hash of trying to say, is when/if your friend starts to act "better" you unfortunately cannot relax too much. Maybe after a few months of being better, but not at first.

Other thing, which you are doing right, is to keep contact with her. Two-four AM is a bad time to be alone. After my love's suicide I was closest to putting a gun in my mouth or playing razor blade roulette in those small hours before the dawn.

Gads, just reviewed this badly written mess, but will let it stand. Still hard to write about these things and seem to make sense. Oh well, because I can, a favourite video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zJdbpzfJMs or the live version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f837T8x0rUo

Ciao y'all

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 25, 2010 5:29 AM

Walton

I don't want to give you shit. But the above mentioned shift work hours I was complaining about was when I was a nurse.

Prior to that I had been a university lecturer in climatology but I became a nurse for one reason, because I could do night shift and earn money while I could attend uni during the day.
If I can work night shifts and still shift my carcass to attend five years worth of law lectures then you can get your arse out of bed to attend one 3 pm lecture.

..to add to my apparently self-proclaimed martyrhood can I can just add I did my finals 1 week and 2 days after my last baby was born (with also a 2 year old and a 13 month old). 8 * 4 hour exams and I wasn't allowed to fucking leave to breastfeed my newborn. Years later and I'm still bitter.

Posted by: Agi Hammerthief | February 25, 2010 5:56 AM

would this be a good place to discuss the demise of the Richard Dawkins . net forum and where to hang out next?

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 6:02 AM

Agi Hammerthief @ 126:

There's a thread going about the event: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/i_so_do_not_want_to_get_sucked.php#comments

That said, this is an open thread. Discuss anything you like.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 25, 2010 6:14 AM

Badgersdaughter @ 129

Morning bitch, morning bitch!!!!

Posted by: Agi Hammerthief | February 25, 2010 6:33 AM

@ 127 & 128

thanks

I go on vacation for a few days and see what happuns.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 25, 2010 6:37 AM

Good morning, all! May the Threadmas hangovers not impede you too much this fine day.

This is old now, but:

re Editing your comments: It should be allowed, but only if a history of the edits is publicly available. As much as I hate the idea of people seeing the mistakes I've fixed, I'd rather not have some troll get away with changing its original post and then accuse people of misquoting it.

Friendly Atheist has a kickass editing function that gives you a 5 minute countdown for editing after you submit. It's enough time to catch typos and dead links, but then that's it and you can't go back after a dozen people tear what you've said apart (not that that happens there). I like that a lot.

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 7:08 AM

Friendly Atheist has a kickass editing function that gives you a 5 minute countdown ...

Posted by: windy | February 25, 2010 7:14 AM

Ha! Threadmas night is still young.

...but old enough for me to try to email someone about doing "mating experiments" and translate that into the equivalent of "mating attempts". pffft.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 25, 2010 7:33 AM

I'm all against an editing function. If someone says something stupid, I don't want to give them the option to change it after being called out on it.

Plus you guys would all miss out on my typos.

Well, not really.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 25, 2010 7:38 AM

It's contagious, Rev. I now make them all the time, when I used to be a real nitpicker about it.

I guess I have only so many things I can work myself up about, and most of them are a lot more important than typos and other assorted grammar/spelling/punctuation goofs. I'll only speak up about one if it confuses things too much.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 25, 2010 7:48 AM

Hm. Could have been a good idea, but the trailer isn't very inspiring. With the very first word they use improper construction that no one, much less a real English professor, would ever use ("Myself and the rest of the female faculty"??), there's a really skeevy bit about how ha ha, it's so funny to invade a woman's privacy by spying on her while she's changing clothes, the protagonist uses that stupid saying "remember, you're the smartest person in the room" (which is usually never true, more knowledge =/= smarter)... it's got all the people/plot theme to make a good movie, but I fear that it might not be one.

Posted by: MAJeff, OM | February 25, 2010 7:57 AM

4. We get an embossing via orgy, or is that an embossed orgy? Or is it only the female OMs that participate in embossure?

Definitely only the females.

*sigh* I miss orgies. *sigh*

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 25, 2010 7:59 AM

You should have put it in expensive-looking bottles.

You shouldn't think I'd let you peasants at the good stuff.

Well, possibly Walton, who dines with the occasional viscount and so must have a decent palate.

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 8:09 AM

Aquaria | February 25, 2010 7:28 AM:

You know ... I still haven't seen Watchman.

But I haven't seen very movies lately.

I see about 2 movies a year. I don't find movies interesting enough to seek them out on my own. I usually just see the movies that friends show at their houses when I visit. Usually these are mediocre SF or comics flicks, like Hulk. And one weekend they picked The Core, easily the worst movie I have ever seen. Once I talked them into picking one of the few movies I really liked. 2001. They hated it.

Most movies, I have real trouble paying attention to for more than about 15-20 minutes at a time. (Longer with science documentaries, provided they're reasonably well-made.) The few times I've watched a movie on my own, I've found I pause it about once every 15 minutes or so, and take about a 15 minute break. When I'm at a friend's place, however, I'll get out a book I'm reading, or get up and walk around for bit, or I'll go to sleep.

Posted by: Paul W., OM | February 25, 2010 8:15 AM

Rev. BDC:

I'm all against an editing function. If someone says something stupid, I don't want to give them the option to change it after being called out on it.

I like the way it works at Cosmic Variance. You can edit your post for 15 minutes, and then it's locked.

That gives you a chance to realize you fucked up, and fix it, before most people see it.

(Of course, in this thread, that may not be true, with people hitting refresh every few minutes to use the thing like a chat room... but you could set the timeout to 5 minutes and I think it would be a win. Even that would be enough to notice and fix most blockquote fails.)

Of course, with such a system it's nice to have a social norm that if you edit a post substantively, you say so.

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 8:29 AM

Rorschach | February 25, 2010 8:13 AM:

And people wonder where attention deficit disorders come from.....
Seriously, I blame it all on television advertising and MTV.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 25, 2010 8:49 AM

but I'm nearly certain I've read a few papers that profess to show a weak correlation between TV watched during youth, and ADD

There is one Study I know of that has shown a correlation between toddlers watching Disney vids and delay in language development.

Disney didnt like it a lot

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 25, 2010 9:03 AM

(Laughing hard at #129/130...)

... and further to discussions of marital combinations of larks and owls, if you are currently engaged, and you find yourself realizing this may be an issue, please check this out with your spouse to be, explain things to 'em, figure out just how big a pain it's gonna be, etc.

See, I'm a fairly extreme owl. Very productive, if I do say so myself, in my own cycle, but getting me going in the morning with any speed basically requires yer standard shot o' straight adrenaline through the breastbone...

My spouse, other way 'round. We are slowly reaching some sorta peace over this, and she is slowly grasping that yes, I really do need to prop my head up a few minutes, stare accusingly at the daylight before being any use whatsoever getting the kids going in the morning. I have found it helps a bit to remind her that in ten years of marriage she has yet had to deal with a single sheet or child change or vomit bucket duty or nightmare soothing thing after 8 pm, as this has always been entirely my domain. She's comatose by then, anyway.

But it's been a long road to that relative peace. Different metabolic clocks can build up to serious friction. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 25, 2010 9:15 AM

Most movies, I have real trouble paying attention to for more than about 15-20 minutes at a time. (Longer with science documentaries, provided they're reasonably well-made.)

I can watch them all the way through if they don't bore me, or worse, repulse me. American movies have a bad habit of doing one or both of those things. Most of the time, I feel like I'm watching a bag of stale cliches rot before my eye.

Posted by: MrFire | February 25, 2010 10:04 AM

Aquaria, if you made it through Batman Begins, you really have to see The Dark Knight. It's not free of cliches, but it has a good deal less than the average Hollywood blockbuster.

Plus there is a nice, lingering shot of a shirtless, bruised, battered Christian Bale tending his wounds...and he wants you to kiss them better!

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 25, 2010 10:23 AM

The Redhead is a night owl, often going to bed about the time I am getting up. When we were first married, she had this idea she had to get up and fix me breakfast. She hated that, and kept carping about my schedule. Eventually I showed her I didn't need her for my breakfast, and she didn't have to go to bed the same time I did if it made her unhappy.

Posted by: Dust.....spy | February 25, 2010 10:57 AM

Hey Walton,

When in my last year at Uni my mottoo was, "Must get my priorities right." Helped me put my school work first and other things after. It really helped. I owned a horse at the time and put him in a good stabling situation so he would be fine while I gave him less attention. My horse at the time could be a major time sink.

In my last semester, my father went into his final illness and died about halfway through. But my little 'must prioritize' motto really helped with that situation too.

Now that I'm back in the job hunt, reviving that motto might be a good thing! :-P

Posted by: davem | February 25, 2010 11:31 AM

Janine:

I deliver the gift of music. Here is some Richard Thompson.
Vincent Black Lightning 1952

Posted by: Aquaria | February 25, 2010 11:33 AM

Mr. Fire:

That' wasn't long enough at all, after seeing him run around naked in American Psycho. I wish there could have been another reason than being a serial killer for him to do that in a movie, but I'll take what I can get.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 25, 2010 11:37 AM

shirtless, bruised, battered Christian Bale tending his wounds...and he wants you to kiss them better!

If Christian Bale wants me to kiss something and make it better, it's gonna have to be somewhere lower than his chest. ;)

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 11:43 AM

161 comments already… <facepalm>

Nice video. Fits this depressing dark-gray rainy day perfectly.

Going to see a therapist is a social interaction. People who dread social interactions will dread a therapist at least as much as any other sort of social interaction.

I'm not sure about that.

I have a question for all the OM members. Once you receive the honor, do you feel obligated to continue posting?

I'd do it anyway :-)

Specifically, I like that it doesn't nest or hide replies the same way a traditional "threaded" discussion board would, forcing me to at least glance at the tangent discussions that are going on. I also like that it loads the entire thing into a single page, which, IMO, improves the flow and continuity. If I want to see whether someone has already said what I'm about to post in a thread, I just have to search the page for relevant terms. (This also keeps me from posting that often, since somebody has usually said what I'm going to say, more eloquently.)

Repeated for truth.

oh, and: "An earlier study by Kanazawa found that more intelligent individuals were more nocturnal, waking up and staying up later than less intelligent individuals."

does that make me supersmart...? :-p

You need something to make you…?

It's a good thing to be self-employed, I usually sleep from about 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.

Wow.

i'd get home around 1am, spend all night online, go to sleep at sunrise, and then get up around 2pm to get ready for work again.

Similar to what we did at the dig in Crayssac – we gently hammered at the limestone in the evening and again at night till 4 am, got home, went to sleep at sunrise (6 am), and got up at 2 pm again.

not too long ago there was a thread on pandagon where people who didn't get up in the early morning on weekends were declared non-adults. grr.

I have never felt adult, so this doesn't touch me at all :o)

this seems appropriate

Oh yes. It's scarily often that I get a sudden bout of productivity when I sit here in the lab at 9 pm and almost have to tear myself off at 10 (or 10:30 or 10:45 or 11:00 even), after having spent most of the afternoon being tired, reading Pharyngula, and the like…

(Did send my grant proposal today and even did some bureaucracy, though.)

With iron willpower, I forced myself to get out of bed at 7.30 am. It's now nearly 10 am and I have achieved practically nothing. I might as well have stayed in bed. :-(

See comment 109. Forcing oneself to get out of bed after too little sleep never makes you awake and functional for the rest of the day.

As I said a couple of subthreads ago… self-discipline is way overrated. I'm faring pretty well with hedonism so far.

I almost never go to bed before 1 or 2 am […] but I generally rise at 5 because of the kids.

3 to 4 h of sleep per night? That doesn't make you tired enough that you go to bed earlier automatically? ~:-|

.. then again I also like to eat at what I consider normal hours ie dinner about 8 and it used to drive me insane that my ex wanted to eat at 6 and go to bed at 8.

Go to bed at 8? Now that's insane.

like I needed another reason not to breed... :-p

Oh, children are pretty different, and their inner clock doesn't stay stable over years or sometimes even months (especially, of course, at the beginning). As long as you're not alone with them…

Oh, and, don't have one child per year like BoSOM. The distances between my siblings and me are 3, 5, and 10 years… the 2 years of distance between the first two of them were a bit hard (though much of that was because both of them cried so much, for different reasons); I didn't notice firsthand how the 3 years between my brother and me were; the 5 years between my sisters were deliberately planned and (so I hear) stemmed from the fact that I didn't grow up faster and required too much attention. – In contrast, the little sister was very easy to care for, hardly cried, was cute beyond all belief, and is still remarkably happy most of the time.

Can you the feeling there's a reason he's an ex?

Not that I knew the rest of the story or anything… but… I'm surprised you managed to put up with that for so long.

I'm very rarely functional and productive. This is the major problem with my life.

That's a plain lie. If it were that bad, you wouldn't… I mean, you're studying law at Oxford, for crying out loud. How would you ever have got in there if you were "very rarely functional and productive"?!?

When tired, sleep. When you sleep enough, you'll be productive afterwards.

Do you even know how many hours of sleep you need per night? (And by "need" I don't mean "how few you can occasionally get by with and still not run into trees or doorposts too often".)

I have never failed a single exam in my life

Are you a cuttlefish or something? Because you obviously aren't human.

(Either that, or they have very strange universities in Germany, in addition to you being one of those rare marvels that sail through school unscathed. In Germany, what do you do at a university when you get a mark that you find unjust or otherwise bizarre?)

8 * 4 hour exams and I wasn't allowed to fucking leave to breastfeed my newborn

<headdesk>

That's cruel to both of you.

Then I can give you the shit you deserve as newbie lawyer and I can get all senior counsel on your butt.

:-D

Looking forward to it ;-)

Still haven't gotten that damn Django music out of my head that David posted the other day, damn him.

I didn't post the music! I posted the film! :-) (Well, two scenes from it.)

Also, it was last weekend… no, two weekends ago, I think.

(*for you cannot spend your life regretting*)

Heh. Django is more into troubleshooting.

yer standard shot o' straight adrenaline through the breastbone

LOL!

BTW, the sun has come out several times since I started writing this comment, and is now apparently here to stay… except it'll set soon. :-)

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 12:07 PM

Davem, seeing that I bought every album RT made in the nineties; Rumour And Sigh, Mirror Blue, you? me?, us?,, and Mock Tudor, they were all on Capital, I did not buy Action Packed. I could not limit myself to only his nineties work. For a overview of his carreer, I would suggest RT: The Life And Music Of Richard Thompson, a five CD set of life takes; solo, with Linda, Fairport and his band from the mid sixties to about five years ago. Also, while, I have no need for it, I have most of his discography, I would send any interested newby to Walking On A Wire; Richard Thompson (1968-2009) for a comprehensive look at his studio career. I took a look at the four CD, seventy-one song, collection. Every song is a keeper.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 12:08 PM

Oh, children are pretty different, and their inner clock doesn't stay stable over years or sometimes even months (especially, of course, at the beginning). As long as you're not alone with them…

Posted by: Alan B | February 25, 2010 12:17 PM

I don't know if this has been reported before but paleontologists at Brigham Young Uni have discoved the skulls from 4 sauropod dinosaurs. Skulls are amazingly rare because they had to be so thin and light so as to be capable of being held off the ground by long necked sauropods.

Video, pictures and text here:

http://news.byu.edu/archive10-feb-abydosaurus.aspx

Any comments David M?

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | February 25, 2010 12:22 PM

Threadiversary

Splitter! There is no Threadiversary, only Threadmas!

Death to the Poopyhead!

Long live the Thread!

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 12:29 PM

Janine, I am sooo envious of your being acquainted with a real Plaster Caster. The corkscrew is a telling detail. This is why we need to archive the endless thread. Otherwise, precious cultural information will be lost.

Lynna, Cynthia was the one who came up the concept and the only one who stayed with the project. Most of the others were to, ahem, prep the subjects. It started as a school project, for an art class she needed to make a cast of something hard. (Yes, when she said it, the word was in bold.) She used this as an excuse to meet guys in bands that she loved. It was also a gimmick that made her stand out from the other groupies. The guys in Paul Revere And The Raiders were the first.

Since the eighties, she pretty much just did this for bands she loved, mostly indy band like The Mekons or Demolition Dollrods. In fact, I first met her at a Jon Langford (The Mekons) solo show. Here was a woman my mother's age singing along to the show.

Interesting person, I miss no longer seeing her.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 12:48 PM

Ron Sullivan, I must have seen RT about ten times from the late eighties (When Clive Gregson and Christine Collister were part of the band.) through 2002. All were great but the best was an acoustic show at The Old Town in Chicago. It was just RT with Danny Thompson on the stand up bass. Lots of jokes about the rivalry between Fairport and Pentacle and I had front row seats. And anyone who been at a show at The Old Town can testify to what a great sound the place has.

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s | February 25, 2010 1:20 PM

Ron Sullivan here. I keep forgetting I have to sign these things.

Janine @186, I think the dream bill with RT on it was a few years back at a winery in Hopland, with David Grisman and Beausoleil.* We're both trying to remember when we saw Danny T with him; Joe thinks it was at the Warfield. We generally drag ourselves out whenever he shows up around here except for those unfortunate times he plays the Fillmore because we're too damned old to stand on tiptoe for three hours.

Heard the Blind Boys of Alabama's cover of "Dimming of the Day"? It sounds great of course but I think I kinda resent their turning it into some sort of devotional. Maybe I'm just touchy.

*Kw*kking: When you look at the cover of Beausoleil's Live from the Left Coast, the pale blob on the stage-left balcony is us. Also at the GAMH.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 25, 2010 1:26 PM

I think I'd better get some sleep. I saw Lynna's first sentence in 189 as Behold the Violent History of Santorun's Pale Moon.

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s | February 25, 2010 1:29 PM

Poster from that concert I was bragging about. Good sound, long grass, shade on a warm day, and Oh yeah wine. Great gardens too. Pity they don't do concerts there anymore, AFAIK.

Ron Sullivan
http://toad.faultline.org

Posted by: Menyambal: Making sambal (it isn't dragon magic). | February 25, 2010 1:43 PM

I went looking for _Dimming_of_the_Day_, and nearly got my ears blasted off. I forgot I've been listening to The Trumpets of Jericho
by E Nomine. It has snarling in German, chanting in Latin, trumpets and drums. It may be religious, but it sure isn't church music.

Posted by: Alan B | February 25, 2010 1:44 PM

Here is something totally different.

I have collected bits of crinoids from the Silurian and the Carboniferous close (ish) to where I live. I have seen wonderful specimens in the Natural History Museum (S Kensington). I have studied pictures in books and on the Internet.

I have always understood that they had a cup made up of plates to which were attached feeder "arms". The cup was supported on a long stem which was made up of circular or pentagonal discs. As a result, the stems were flexible and waved in the currents. Shortly after death the stem broke down to produce individual segments. I have a number of samples of crinoid "gravel" which is made up of individual segments cemented in a matrix of lime mud. Finally, the stem was firmly attached to the bottom by a holdfast so the whole thing waved about in the bottom currents.

Look for crinoids in Google Images and the first page will show modern crinoids from the sea bottom (benthic) as well as a variety of fossil crinoids.

But I have never read anything like this!

http://echinoblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/giant-floaty-swimmy-fossil-crinoids.html

This literally turns (at least some) crinoids upside down! Pelagic crinoids.

Giant crinoids attached to logs, apparently floating near the surface. Dozens of them attached to one log several metres long!! Other crinoids with gas balloons on the ends of stems. Crinoids which it is suggested drifted just above the sea bed and dredged the deposit surface.

Beautiful pictures and interesting text - crinoids as you may never have seen them before.

(Maybe this is old news. It's new news to me!)

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 25, 2010 1:54 PM

Heard the Blind Boys of Alabama's cover of "Dimming of the Day"? It sounds great of course but I think I kinda resent their turning it into some sort of devotional. Maybe I'm just touchy.

You can find that on Beat The Retreat. That was a stunning cover. And, no, it did not really bother me. Many of RT songs are like prime soul songs, they cover the ground between love songs and devotionals. His album with Linda, Pour Down Like Silver, screams out his muslim faith. (And not just those cover photos.) It is also one of his best albums.

As good as this tribute album is, I like The World Is A Wonderful Place Better. The title song should have been released on a proper album but given the darkness of the song, it never would have gone anywhere. Christine Collister's cover of How Will I Ever Be Simple Again is heartbreaking, Plainsong's a capella rendition of Galway To Graceland is beautiful and Full Moon Fair (Henry Kaiser)doing Night Comes In is as stunning as The Five Bind Boys Of Alabama.

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 2:02 PM

Someone needs to start a multi-level marketing scheme selling Morning After pills in Utah.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 2:17 PM

Didn't mention yet… I had half a portion of cauliflower-broccoli soup in the cafeteria today. I don't like cauliflower in general, but this soup was blended, and I had no alternative (other than skipping the entire meal altogether)… Surprisingly, it was a bit bitter, rather lacking in the usual cauliflower taste.

Pelagic crinoids.

I only knew half of this. It's deeply impressive, but read the comments, too…

I decided to work from home today because of a doctor's appointment that was going to break up the day anyway - then my kids' school shut down for the afternoon and so did the college. Whee?

Cool. Why did they shut down?

Posted by: MrFire | February 25, 2010 2:23 PM

They certainly brighten mine!!!

:D

Even though I don't think Ham really lurks here.

Yes, to be honest, I don't either. Just showing off, even if there's not much to show off.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 2:25 PM

I had never seen any mention of this idea

Interesting, because it has been widespread in the primary literature.

It's also controversial, though. For instance, it doesn't actually save energy – for such a large animal, locomotion is relatively so cheap that growing and maintaining an endless neck instead would be a huge waste. The walking necessary to exploit the space such a neck can reach on the ground requires the energy contained in, like, half a bite of "fresh browse" for Giraffatitan, as was calculated in Paul & Leahy (1994) or Paul (1998). I don't remember which one, but can supply references later.

There are also interesting differences between at least two types of long sauropod necks. Unfortunately they're still not sufficiently understood.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 2:29 PM

the floors would probably have to be cleaned more often than once every 6 months...

I clean up to once a week… in fact, I'll come home "early" today, and I'm not catastrophically tired yet, so I should be able to do last weekend's floor-wiping today… :-)

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 25, 2010 2:50 PM

Someone needs to start a multi-level marketing scheme selling Morning After pills in Utah.

Wouldn't work. The foot-soldiers of the MLMs are overwhelmingly Mormons in my experience.

You're right. Mormons can be duplicitous and hypocritical (especially when it comes to making money), but they can't be openly duplicitous and hypocritical.

So, this means that a mormon management team needs to hire infidels and apostates to start up a black market in "morning after" pills. Such a thing might even already exist -- headquartered in Mexico?

Posted by: Alan B | February 25, 2010 3:03 PM

#207 Lynna

Hi Lynna

Presumably you or your brother are aware of:

Structural Geology of Western Part of Lemhi Range, East-Central Idaho
U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1659

http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/p1659/p1659.pdf

Posted by: Alan B | February 25, 2010 3:22 PM

#201 & #206

This is how they lived and ate - we have video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXV0Lr2xqg&NR=1

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 25, 2010 3:57 PM

NCAA yanks Focus on the Family ad amid concerns

Weeks after scoring a publicity coup with a 30-second Super Bowl ad featuring Heisman Trophy winner Tim Tebow, conservative Christian group Focus on the Family is at the center of another marketing tug-of-war—this time involving the major governing body of college sports.
     The National Collegiate Athletic Association removed a Focus on the Family banner ad from one of its Web sites this week, NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said Wednesday.
     The NCAA made the decision after some of its members—including faculty and athletic directors—expressed concern that the evangelical group’s stance against gay and lesbian relationships conflicted with the NCAA’s policy of inclusion regardless of sexual orientation, Williams said....
     Pat Griffin, a retired University of Massachusetts Amherst professor who is a consultant to the NCAA on gay and lesbian issues, said it’s not a generic feel-good message.
     She said the slogan’s “life” reference is anti-abortion, and celebrating families does not extend to all families but “a very specific kind of family— heterosexual married families. A large part of their energy goes to preventing other kinds of families of having recognition.”
     Griffin said it’s one thing for CBS to accept such an ad, but it’s different for the NCAA.
     “It’s not the right image or role for the NCAA to be endorsing an organization that has such an extreme right-wing Christian political mission,” said Griffin, who used her blog to protest the ad.
     Schneeberger said Focus on the Family spends 90 percent of its budget on providing parenting and marriage resources and 10 percent on advocacy on issues such as abortion and gay marriage.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 4:01 PM

Argh. I had to chair a debate this evening. It went quite badly.

Also, I have to stay up tonight and finish my work, and I really, really want a Diet Pepsi. But the vending machine only accepts coins, and I only have 50p in coins (I need 60p). How can I possibly finish this work without more caffeine?

(OK, I'm now officially using the Endless Thread as a substitute for Twitter.)

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 4:12 PM

The National Collegiate Athletic Association removed a Focus on the Family banner ad from one of its Web sites this week, NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said Wednesday.

Argh. I had to chair a debate this evening. It went quite badly.

Also, I have to stay up tonight and finish my work, and I really, really want a Diet Pepsi. But the vending machine only accepts coins, and I only have 50p in coins (I need 60p). How can I possibly finish this work without more caffeine?

(OK, I'm now officially using the Endless Thread as a substitute for Twitter.)

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 25, 2010 4:16 PM

Keith Olbermann talks about "death panels", the entire health care debacle, and his father's experiences with the health care system. Olbermann swears at Sarah Palin, and generally makes a very strong statement. Long, but worth watching.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 4:20 PM

Have you facepalmed enough today? No? Then go here.

that was more than 160 characters... ;-)

X-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Perfect. :-)

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 4:25 PM

Have you facepalmed enough today? No? Then go here.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 25, 2010 5:17 PM

You're not a troll unless you're trolling.

Everybody is welcome in the Thread Everlasting, but everyone is also exposed for argument or criticism.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 25, 2010 5:19 PM

Some folks around here are habitually too quick to apply the "troll" label, IMO.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 5:27 PM

'Tis Himself, OM @ 229:

I not only clean the floors but I do the dishes as well. My plates are so clean you could eat off of them.

Would you like to be my 2nd husband?

Posted by: triskelethecat | February 25, 2010 5:34 PM

@Christopher Maloney: Those are generally good ideas, and true. Most depressives don't have the energy to commit suicide until recovering (as wrong as that sounds, at least that's what they taught us in nursing school; the biggest suicide risk is as they begin recovery). Community of ANY type is helpful, if the person can be encouraged to get involved.

Your comment this time wasn't trolling; however, I did NOT go to your site to read what you have there. Your comment here was generally appropriate, although blog self-promotion is not usually appreciated.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 25, 2010 5:38 PM

Some folks around here are habitually too quick to apply the "troll" label, IMO.

We've actually been bereft of 'real' trolls over the last few days - in my time zone, at least. But I think we've become more accustomed to not having anyone to stomp. Last time we went this long without a knock-down-drag-out certain people seemed to want to start fights for the sake of it.

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 25, 2010 5:44 PM

Last time we went this long without a knock-down-drag-out certain people seemed to want to start fights for the sake of it.

Oh yeah?! Did not! Post proof or retract! Jerk!

(/Mandatory/obvious...)

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 5:48 PM

I read Dispatches daily :-)

I used to, till I noticed there are only 30 hours in a day. :-(

We've actually been bereft of 'real' trolls over the last few days

Trolls, creationists, lots of groups of people have become very rare since PZ made registration obligatory in order to get rid of the spambots; he didn't have time to delete their hundreds of comments per day anymore. (The ScienceBlogs overlords, you see, are too stupid to implement a Captcha or anything.)

Posted by: mayhempix | February 25, 2010 6:00 PM

HaPpY hApPy !!!

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | February 25, 2010 6:02 PM

My leave has been approved for the GAC, so all I have to do now is organise accommodation.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 6:06 PM

I used to, till I noticed there are only 30 hours in a day. :-(

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 6:07 PM

David M. and Jadehawk: Are you serious? I would never reuse a dinner plate without washing it up first. Nor, usually, a coffee mug (I don't drink tea). The only things I keep using without washing them are cups/glasses for Diet Pepsi (it doesn't taste so good if you drink it straight from the can). And I thought I was a lazy student...

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 6:11 PM

David M. and Jadehawk: Are you serious?

and have i mentioned i have mice? and not as pets, either.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 6:13 PM

Argh. International law. ILC Draft Articles on State Responsibility. Nottebohm. Barcelona Traction. UN General Assembly Resolution 1803. Need... more... caffeine...

(Ignore me. I'm just venting.)

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 25, 2010 6:28 PM

Ignore me. I'm just venting.

Venting? PLASMA?! Bridge, we've got an emergency down in engineering! I estimate three minutes to a warp core breach!

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 25, 2010 6:51 PM

Damn! Our last dilithium crystals are still in the draining rack. Jadehawk refuses to clean them during her watch so I have to clean hers and mine both.

See, this is exactly why I specified a crystal washer or at the very least a double sink, but do those hyperspanner-monkeys at Utopia Planitia ever listen to the people who are actually gonna use the damn ship? Oh no-o-o-o-o-o-o!

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 6:52 PM

Mrs Tilton has been sighted in the 10 latest comments.

He must be chicken.

Chicken chicken chicken

(And don't think it's repetitive. Watch it all the way to the end. And then maybe download the pdf, even!)

indeed :-)

<hug> ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

Sorry, couldn't restrain myself :-)

Are you serious? I would never reuse a dinner plate without washing it up first.

When I, sir, lick a dinnerplate clean, it's clean and dry, and indistinguishable from a washed-up & dried one. Same result for less time, less effort, and less waste of good food.

Basically, what I need to wash up is where my tongue doesn't reach! =8-)

and have i mentioned i have mice?

Mice are nice.

What about tea stains in the mug?

Yeah, what about them? :-| What about tea stains in the tea mug? Will they make the tea taste of tea?

And blogwhoring can be considered a crime

<sigh> Yes, but Christopher Maloney, Negatio Doctoris, hasn't done any that far. Linking to one's blog in one's name is normal. In fact, it's what I have to pretend to be doing just so that I can comment here at all (I don't have a blog, the link in my name doesn't lead anywhere).

I estimate three minutes to a warp core breach!

That's like crossing the streams, right?

* * *

And now I'm off to wipe the floor :-) :-) :-) I'm so proud of myself :-) :-) :-)

(Given my dust allergy, and the dirt on my shoes, I should wipe it every weekend. Doesn't happen, somehow.)

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | February 25, 2010 6:58 PM

Been There??

I practically fucking live there!

But then what do I know? I'm just an Ignorant engineer

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 7:00 PM

Actually, I should mention that I didn't even come up with "mice are nice" on my own, though I... hopefully could have. It's from a Tom & Jerry film. "Roses are red, violets are blue, mice are nice, and so are YOU, KID!!! [in huge red letters that I don't want to reproduce here]"...

My brother and I communicate mostly in citations from the classical literature, as if we were Confucian scholars, or those Star Trek weirdos with their "entirely metaphorical language". Only our definition of "classical literature" is a bit different: it consists mostly of the German version of this...

Well, as I said, I'm off to wipe the floor. :-)

Posted by: Stephen Wells | February 25, 2010 7:06 PM

Walton, I guess this is one forum where your geek status won't a problem.

Isn't separating your saucer and engineering sections in battle now famous as the Picard Manoeuvre?

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 25, 2010 7:08 PM

Isn't separating your saucer and engineering sections in battle now famous as the Picard Manoeuvre?

Doh. Yes, of course it is. I forgot that.

Evidently I'm not even a good geek (not while sleep-deprived, anyway).

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 7:21 PM

Ugh! *retches* Please tell me you're joking. Seriously.

Absolutely not. When I write "clean & dry", I mean it. The trick is to have your lower lip follow your tongue closely so it presses against the plate in a watertight manner. In general, I do a lot of "licking" with the lips only – of knives, for instance, and of ice cream most of the time when I can't eat it with a little spoon (I don't like wafers, you see).

Most of the floor is wiped. Especially the part between me and the light switch. I'll need to perform acrobatic maneuvers to be able to go to bed... Last time I actually thought of this and opened the blinds; there's a street lamp in front of the window, which is plenty enough light to wipe the floor, go to bed, and close the blinds again. <sigh>

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 25, 2010 7:26 PM

Holy crap, SteveV! That's 'Men at Work'? Which one is Colin Hay?

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 25, 2010 7:34 PM

Done. Next to my 3 pairs of shoes I had left enough unwiped that 3 steps and a knife were enough to switch the light off. :-) Also, there are 2 street lamps in front of my window, not 1. Good night, Walton.

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s | February 25, 2010 7:38 PM

Pee Yes: #273 was me, Ron Sullivan, the Queen of Forgetting Things.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 25, 2010 7:42 PM

I suddenly have a strong urge to send David one of these, but to each his own. As long as he doesn't invite anyone over for dinner.

I've met several people who swear by the patina formed in coffee and tea mugs, and think that washing the mug totally ruins months to years of effort to build it up.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 25, 2010 7:55 PM

I've met several people who swear by the patina formed in coffee and tea mugs, and think that washing the mug totally ruins months to years of effort to build it up.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | February 25, 2010 8:06 PM

Bronian? Bronian?
Deepest apoloigies

I will now deploy excuses 27 & 42
Ahem

'Shakespear couln't spell either'

'It's well past my bedtime'

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | February 25, 2010 8:19 PM

'Tis Himself, OM #271
This is as close as I get to ships

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-APsXZVyZLE

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 25, 2010 8:30 PM

This is as close as I get to ships

I spent over four years in this ship. :-P

Posted by: Rorschach | February 25, 2010 8:40 PM

I found out by chance yesterday that the Professor of Emergency in my organisation, the, like, ueber-Doctor,a strictly suit and tie type who at work is as funny as a dead rat, is a total utter Star Trek geek, every episode archived, little models on the walls, goes to conventions, the whole shebang.
It was quite the shock.

If you want to see an engine room you've got to go down.

*Nods*

:P

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 25, 2010 8:52 PM

Rorschach,

*Nods* Nerds.

Fixed it for you :)

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 25, 2010 9:05 PM

Lynna - All breastplates are OM worthy, brass or not. *smirk*

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 25, 2010 9:12 PM

Patricia! Great to hear from you. Unfortunately, we haven't got any trolls for you to smite, but there's still good times to be had.

How are things?

Posted by: Aquaria | February 25, 2010 9:22 PM

Good for you, Patricia! Have fun!

Posted by: MrFire | February 25, 2010 9:26 PM

There ...are ...two lights!!!

For Chrissakes, somebody get windy some raw taspar eggs already!

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 9:31 PM

Patricia, Ignorant Slut OM @ 293:

Wowbagger - er, Janine has kept my secret...but, since you asked... I've been asked out on a date.

Don't forget your breastplate!

Posted by: Opus | February 25, 2010 9:44 PM

OK, this is long, but bear with me while I indulge in what passes for humor in some circles:

A long-time atheist approaches the end of his life, comfortable with his beliefs and the end of his earthly existence. (He had begun life as a Calvinist but as the years went by he had realized that the tenets of said faith were totally illogical.) As the end approaches he senses darkness and begins to relax and feel his body shutting down. Suddenly he sees a bright light approaching, as if at the end of a tunnel. “I know what’s happening,” he thinks to himself, “this is purely a neurological phenomenon.” As he reaches the light a sense of wonderment & joy engulfs him. “Yep, more neat neurological stuff going on,” he says to himself. His body begins to feel lighter and he begins to rise. “Man, dying isn’t really all that bad,” he realizes. “I wonder if evolution has selected for these effects at the end of consciousness or if it’s all just a byproduct of consciousness. . .”

Suddenly he pops through a gap in the clouds and is face to face with an enormous set of gates, with a definite pearly iridescence, and an attendant at a desk barring entry. “Oh, shit! It’s not supposed to be like this!”

The attendant smiles, gestures him forward and says “We’ve got a few formalities here as a part of the admissions decision. “Name?" "Date of birth?” No problem so far. . . “Religion?” Our new arrival, possibly honed by years spent debating creationists online, stand defiantly erect and says “None! And bald is not a hair color!”

“Relax ,” says the attendant, “you’re in. All you atheists get uptight when I ask that question. The only reason we ask is to help figure out the best neighborhood for you to start out in. Step through the door and, before you ask, no harps, no choirs, unless you’re into that kind of stuff. There’ll be a guide inside to help you with rookie orientation.”

Our friend enters a paradise. Food, drink, great conversation & companionship, kick-ass web connections, everything he’d ever wanted. And truly heavenly bacon. He turns to the guide and says “I guess I’d better apologize to someone for turning away from the truth. How can I speak to John Calvin?”

The guide responds slowly and carefully: “I’m afraid you’ll have to request a pass and get a fireproof suit. Mr. Calvin isn’t here.”

Before our atheist friend can respond he is shocked almost beyond words when Richard Dawkins walks by. All he can do is point and say “What?? When?!?” The guide laughs and says, “Take a deep breath – it’s no big deal. Richard is perfectly healthy and alive on earth. That’s God – he just likes to pretend he’s Richard Dawkins.”

Don’t know why this came to me today. . .

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 25, 2010 9:48 PM

Lynna - All breastplates are OM worthy, brass or not. *smirk*

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 25, 2010 9:52 PM

Patrica, how nice to hear (or read) from you again. Congratulations on getting your social life going.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 25, 2010 9:54 PM

Oo, Patricia has a date! Have fun! :)

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 25, 2010 10:00 PM

Gosh, thanks everyone.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 25, 2010 10:03 PM

Carlie, I understand what you mean. In dah UP, we had a lot of fluffly lake effect snow. Much easier to shovel than the stuff we usually get in this area. Although, last night's snow was the fluffy stuff.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 25, 2010 10:03 PM

Taking for granted you like Harley's. *smirk*

Actually, while I like motorcycles (in principle - I find them fascinating from an aesthetic/mechanical perspective), riding pillion scares the living crap out of me. It would have to be a choice between life and death (or, at the very least, serious inconvenience) before I'd willingly go on the back of a bike.

Posted by: onethird-man | February 25, 2010 10:07 PM

About depression: beta blockers are, actually, proving useful in relieving anxiety, specifically ancient beta-blockers like Propranolol.

They've been used to help chronic phobias, folks with PTSD, and general anxiety attacks.

They apparently work by shutting down the response to adrenaline, this is only speculation, but this may blunt the reinforcing effects of reliving or experiencing the same trauma or anxiety.

Since childhood episodes leading to PTSD-type symptoms (those who were abused) have responded to this treatment, as have some with wartime PTSD, it would appear that a refutation might exist for our ND's position, given that PTSD is one of the means of acquiring a condition that can lead to major depression and higher risk of suicide.

How would this help a person who is depressive? Depression is only one of the symptoms, and general anxiety can prevent a person from reaching out to any groups at all, including the phenomenally benign Unitarians. Anxiety can also lead to episodes of rage, guilt, feelings of low self-worth, which combined with depression eventually can lead to attempting.

Beta-blockers can desensitize the emotional component of traumatic memories, one of the features in depressives that reinforces feelings of low self-worth.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 10:08 PM

Bride of Shrek OM @ 309:

lots of dogs with full bladders urinating on the stuff?

That doesn't help, just get lots of frozen yellow patches. We got a snowblower this year, but it's still a lot of physical work.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | February 25, 2010 10:09 PM

As long as you aren't wiping your floor down with your lips and tongue, DM....

Of no particular relevance to anything...relevant, but in playing the thread-heading video, I notice that all of the roses expand their petals outward, then at a certain point contract them slightly, just before they almost explode outward in their final expansion. Neat!

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 25, 2010 10:11 PM

Gotta have nipples.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 25, 2010 10:14 PM

It's not that hard to find out about Apolipoprotein E is.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 25, 2010 10:16 PM

Wowbagger - Oh, no - I have three Harley's, a chopper, a bagger, and my little old iron jugged Snortster, your choice. Besides, I never let anyone ride behind me...there's only two places they want to hang on to. *smiles innocently*

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 25, 2010 10:18 PM

Disco Dead and I Don't Care!!!
NSFJ!

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 10:26 PM

one-third man @ 323:

And just in case folks might think (as a newcomer) I might be talking out of my hat without any notion of backing it up (claims of propranolol helping with anxiety and traumatic memories):

Don't worry about it. The person yakking about beta-blockers is a Quack that PZ wrote about a little while ago:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/christopher_maloney_still_a_qu.php#comments

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/do_not_harass_the_quacks.php#comments

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/andreas_moritz_is_a_cancer_qua.php#comments

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 25, 2010 10:28 PM

Methods of dealing with snow not technically involving the use of shovels:

-- for smallish quantities at temperatures that aren't too far from freezing, sometims you can sprinkle a bit of salt on it. Makes it melt, turn to water, run off the surface in question. But this really only works at around 1 cm or less, when, seriously, it ain't like you even need to remove it that badly. And for large surfaces, that's a lot of salt, which generally isn't so nice for vegetation. More generally, salt is more used to prevent ice formation on roads and sidewalks, and to melt away junk that's already formed on sidewalks and the like before you chop it away.

-- a few neighbours of mine, I kid you not, actually have heated driveways. I don't know what these cost to run. Somehow, the whole notion seems a bit excessive to me anyway. And probably, these, too, only work for relatively light snowfalls and are more meant to keep ice buildup off after you remove the bulk of the stuff by more mechanical means.

-- you can pay someone to show up in a plow and/or skidsteer to deal with the stuff using hydraulics 'n all.

-- for uneven walks, like one of my rock walks, that has thyme between the stones in the non-fun season we call summer, screw removing it--or at the very least, don't bother removing it all. Tramp it down, put sand on top when it turns to ice.

-- in the same vein, you could, I suppose, also ignore it entirely, and just drive and hike over it into your house. You'd need good snow tires, mebbe snowshoes in heavy winters... But around here, you need the former, at least, anyway, if you merely wish to live.

(/But eventually, following this approach, I'd imagine, the mail delivery people would start to get annoyed. Those guys are such wimps.)

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 10:32 PM

AJ Milne @ 330:

(/But eventually, following this approach, I'd imagine, the mail delivery people would start to get annoyed. Those guys are such wimps.)

Pfffft, getting mail delivered. Soft, I tell ya! We have to retrieve ours from the post office.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 25, 2010 10:39 PM

Pfft, getting mail delivered. Soft, I tell ya!

Soft indeed! Why out here in Orygun we have to hitch 12 pullets to a sledge and mush out into a clearing just to see smoke signals.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 25, 2010 10:41 PM

Patricia

Why don't you just teach one of those evolutionary screw-ups how to fly then you could send your mail by carrier-chook.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 25, 2010 10:43 PM

Soft indeed! Why out here in Orygun we have to hitch 12 pullets to a sledge and mush out into a clearing just to see smoke signals.

I can just see the home-made knit snow shoes on the pullets...

Time for bed after last nights adventure.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 25, 2010 10:59 PM

Goodnight you naughty darlings, I've got a bacon and yukon gold chowder to set up for the ol' crock pot, before I get to the serious business of burnishing up the brass bosoms for my date.
Night, night Nerd.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 25, 2010 11:06 PM

Gelfling references make me happy. :)

Nerd, I'm way too far south - northeastern US.

Jadehawk - too funny. I had an experience similar to your igloo conundrum when I first tried to go play in the fluffy snow; the stuff wouldn't make a snowman no matter how hard I tried.

I think I've made most of the possible snow removal mistakes by now - not going out in the middle of a snowstorm before it piles up too much, not keeping the integrity of the side banks so that it doesn't avalanche down or encroach on the driveway too much, letting it build up too much next to the car tires, not leveling off the top of the banks so they don't get too tall to throw more snow on, not hitting the snowplow pack first before getting too worn out, looking outside and thinking "oh, it doesn't look that deep" and then not going out early before work to be sure.

Posted by: bullofthewoods | February 25, 2010 11:26 PM

'Tis@284 Just giving a shout out to a fellow bubblehead. I spent four years on the Patrick Henry.(SSBN599).

Posted by: llewelly | February 25, 2010 11:34 PM

Carlie | February 25, 2010 11:06 PM:

Nerd, I'm way too far south [to see Auroras] - northeastern US.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 25, 2010 11:41 PM

Desert Son, OM @ 347:

"You're already going to the bars, might as well get paid for it!"

Hahahaha. Conveniently leaving out that working in a bar isn't quite as fun as going to a bar. :D

Posted by: Desert Son, OM | February 25, 2010 11:51 PM

Also, congratulations to Patricia, have a great date.

'Tis, glad to have you with us. A submarine collision is the stuff of nightmares. That line from Jaws where Brody's wife is talking to Hooper about Brody's fear of water, asking, "What's that called?" and Brody interrupts, saying, "Drowning," has resonated heavily with me since a near-drowning incident when I was 12.

*shudders*

Still learning,

Robert

Posted by: Desert Son, OM | February 25, 2010 11:59 PM

Conveniently leaving out that working in a bar isn't quite as fun as going to a bar. :D

But of course!

And with that in mind:

What the ads say, what the ads mean.

Have a good weekend, everyone.

Still learning,

Robert

Posted by: jaybgee | February 26, 2010 12:06 AM

Hi everyone. I'm going to be totally off-topic again to thank everyone who suggested history reading material for me in the "full of Guinness" (around Feb.6th) part of the endless thread. First I'm going to read stuff I can get at the library (found 11 of the many books recommended), and possibly buy books if I'm REALLY interested. Now back to lurking.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 26, 2010 12:07 AM

Jadehawk,

we're not allowed to have pets, and the boyfriend doesn't feel like breaking that rule. I have been kicking them out whenever I catch one, but they aren't easy to catch and there seems a never ending supply of them

Bummer. They (mice) do multiply like mad! I've never been able to catch the mice myself, but the cats can get back into the closets and see under the cabinets where the mice are. I think it's so cute to see one of them staring at the space between the buffet and the floor, crouching for hours waiting for the mouse to make its move.

Have you asked your landlord about a cat? My lease initially said no cats, but I told the landlord that I had a mouse and I wanted a cat to make sure mice didn't become a problem. He was cool with that, but he's a pretty cool landlord for the most part.

My cat does spend most of his time at the boyfriend's house, but I wanted to make sure he could stay with at my place too.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 26, 2010 12:13 AM

Carlie,

I'm all for kill traps for mice; if you let them go, they'll come right back.

Cats are the ultimate kill trap for mice :) I don't like kill traps because I'm always afraid I'm going to hurt myself when I set them. Cats, OTOH, set themselves.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 26, 2010 12:34 AM

keep in mind that this is the landlord who was trying to get me to spend all winter with a hole in my wall because he took out the broken AC in October, but didn't want to put a new one in until Spring.

Damn. Don't you live up north where it's devastatingly cold? My own landlord doesn't necessarily fix things in a timely manner unless it's costing him money (like a running toilet) or I freak out a bit at him, but he is working on replacing the windows now that I told him how much it cost me to heat the place to a very modest 64 Fahrenheit in the winter.

I like my landlord because he's nice about the important things. He doesn't care that it looks like a tornado tore apart an archive inside my apartment, he's unconcerned about holes in the walls, a couple of years ago I forgot to pay the rent one month and he just left a very nice message on my voice mail asking if I had paid it and he lost it or did I forget to pay it.

I've had some nightmare landlords who complained if they came in to fix something and the place wasn't cleaned up, or freaked out if rent was one day late even when the lease had a grace period of five days (I had to mail my rent at that time and it was hardly my fault that he moved, so it took a couple of days for my check to get forwarded).

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 26, 2010 12:47 AM

Caine,

I am so glad my landlord days are well behind me.

I really like being able to call someone else and say "the hot water heater quit working, someone needs to fix it" and then it gets fixed and I don't have to pay anything! One day I want to own a home, but I have no idea when I'll be able to do that, especially since I want some land to go along with it.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 26, 2010 1:02 AM

Cainee,

I'm not unhandy, but cost is a big factor. I guess I've never been financially stable enough to have much of an "emergency fund" so knowing that if something in my home breaks, I don't have to pay for it contributes to my peace of mind.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 26, 2010 1:13 AM

Pygmy Loris,

Oh I understand fully. Whenever something does decide to break down in the house, it's almost always the wrong season and at a time when money is a problem, to say the least. I'm still learning to think ahead in terms of house maintenance. I'm not that used to it (We've owned our place for almost 6 years now) and you can never be prepared for every eventuality. Owning your own place definitely has its downsides. I was 46.5 when we decided to buy, so we definitely waited a good long while.

Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD | February 26, 2010 1:38 AM

Do you suppose Patrica will see this when she gets home from her date? Not the onion!

BS

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 26, 2010 2:05 AM

Caine @ 369,

I love that! Wow.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 26, 2010 2:29 AM

Hey

Home owners v renters

Stop derailing the thread, can we please return to the important discussion about Christian Bale's nipples.

Seriously though our tenancy laws in Australia are much different to what I seem to see as the norm in the US so generally it sucks to be a tenant. You do get good landlords but essentially it was the greatest day of my life when I stopped paying off someone else's mortgage and started paying mine. Of course now I own investment properties so I think I'm the world's greatest landlord.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 26, 2010 2:32 AM

Pygmy Loris @ 370:

I love that! Wow.

Thank you! The fridge died not long after the paint job. I still have to do up the replacement fridge.

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 26, 2010 3:48 AM

Goddammit. How the hell does that happen? I've changed my password; can any of you internet-knowledgeable people confirm that this should stop the problem occurring again?

It may stop it this time, if you were a victim of simple phishing. If you have been infected with a virus, it won't be enough.

Regarding simple phishing, you can only understand the problem and be careful. I generally type out URLs myself every time I want to visit a site that has a user login, instead of following links or bookmarks. It isn't a very big deal to type out "twitter.com" or "gmail.com" and you'll get used to it. I notice also that Twitter has an SSL-encrypted login available at https://twitter.com/login but they don't advertise it very well. This protects you more from man-in-the-middle attacks, though, which really aren't related to your problem today. SSL is a side issue.

Posted by: maureen.brian#b5c92 | February 26, 2010 4:09 AM

Damn these time zones.

Keep your eyes peeled during the next active period, Nerd. I have seen - just once and faintly - the Aurora from about 54 degrees N. A lack of light pollution helps.

Tis Himself, did you get a chance to read Incredible Edible Todmorden? Not nagging, sir, just curious!

Posted by: JeffreyD | February 26, 2010 4:42 AM

Trying to get back into reading and responding. This place is still good therapy. Cast is off, family issues settled and able to travel, so plan to so do per below.

Bits and pieces for now:

Patricia, wonderful you have a date. Hope it is fun.

Walton - hope you are still in bed at this point. In any case, returning to the UK to work on my books and there till summer. Once you finish finals, making a final offer to meet for a drink.

Knockgroats - per above, returning to the mother country. Do you have any plans to visit the south or do I need to make the trek up the far north for a drink? Well, at least you have good malt up there.

Dust - a wave and a hello and thank you.

Quack - you do not make it to troll status, just a space filler.

Strange gods - please keep us advised about your friend. Fingers crossed.

Lynna - hope all goes well with you, let us know how things turn out with tests. Also, do not hesitate to ask for further aid.

Credo elvem etiam vivere

JeffreyD

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 26, 2010 6:03 AM

110 more comments overnight... I'll start reading them soon. When I couldn't sleep anymore, I got up, finished wiping the floor, and downloaded the Abydosaurus paper, which is open-access, all seven Supplementary Information files included! :-)

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 26, 2010 6:55 AM

So, Patricia, how did it go?

There ...are ...two lights!!!

Please explain. No useful results on the 1st page of Google results.

I suddenly have a strong urge to send David one of these

:-D

'Tis, at one time we had a cGMP trainer who had a photo of his ship at the North Pole. You do anything like that?

Cyclic guanine monophosphate??? I only know cAMP. ~;-|

Before our atheist friend can respond he is shocked almost beyond words when Richard Dawkins walks by. All he can do is point and say “What?? When?!?” The guide laughs and says, “Take a deep breath – it’s no big deal. Richard is perfectly healthy and alive on earth. That’s God – he just likes to pretend he’s Richard Dawkins.”

Don’t know why this came to me today. . .

I don't quite understand it, but it sounds interesting...

INCREDIBLY SECRET-BURN BEFORE READING

:-D

keep in mind that this is the landlord who was trying to get me to spend all winter with a hole in my wall because he took out the broken AC in October, but didn't want to put a new one in until Spring.

<headdesk>

I guess someday I might get motivated and clean out everything so the only food they'll find is in the traps. but if i could do that, i wouldn't have mice to begin with

I'll just put it bluntly: what, actually, do you have a boyfriend for? The very least he could do would be to motivate you to clean the apartment together with him...

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 26, 2010 7:16 AM

Cyclic guanine monophosphate???

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 26, 2010 7:39 AM

President Obama is actually going to have a face to face talk with secularists of the Secular Coalition for America. SCA's bulletin here; news item here. It is times like this that make me realize how much better the Democrats are compared to Republicans and how important it is to not throw up my hands in disgust over all the political posturing (not that my vote has ever counted for anything as a Democrat in Republican lands so far for my entire life).

Posted by: Quackalicious | February 26, 2010 7:58 AM

Great! I’m not a troll, and we prefer the term quackalicious to quack.
In response to the beta blocker discussion, I realize its being used for the anxiety, but according to the Cochrane database, it’s not effective. Since it slows the heart, I’ve found it leads to fatigue and elderly patients tend to assume they are “just getting old” rather than dealing with drug side effects. The fatigue makes it too difficult to think about activities.
Here’s the Cochrane info: Expert Rev Neurother. 2008 Feb;8(2):235-57.
Pharmacotherapy for social anxiety disorder: a systematic review.

Posted by: Epikt | February 26, 2010 8:16 AM

Bride of Shrek OM:

Out of curiousity though, isn't there some other method apart from physically shovelling the stuff ...hot water, flamethrowers, lots of dogs with full bladders urinating on the stuff?

Snowblowers (it doesn't count as "physically shovelling" if your back doesn't ache afterwards). Ugly, noisy, smelly, but effective. Most fun on a gravel driveway. Will launch gravel (and cats, and small children) into the air.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 8:21 AM

jeez with the real life shit.

but: SNOWDAY!!!

Morning-mood Dead (NSFJ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_6RNldWGm4

that's a lot of salt, which generally isn't so nice for vegetation.

Road salt is also turning out to be a big problem for amphibians.

heated driveways. I don't know what these cost to run

Guy I knew in Boston had big plans for inventing a solar-powered driveway-heating system.

working in a bar isn't quite as fun as going to a bar

But of course this depends completely on exactly which bars are being compared. Also varies somewhat night to night.

mouse is stuck

Warning: mice can jump much, much higher than you think they can!

Bastard didn't even paint the wall, just kept my $800 and re-rented the place to some other Deadhead.

Ha!! Love it! Some of my deadheaded college buddies had a similar wall, but it was in opposite colors (i.e. green, black & orange for RW&B)...ow my eyez

Cyclic guanine monophosphate???

Ha! No, Nerd uses the same acronym (even capitalization convention) for something very different. But I am surprised at your evident surprise about cGMP sensu biochemico. Guanylate cyclase is very commonly used for all kinds of stuff: NO-induced vasodilation, for example (including erection), phototransduction for another. H,LMGIFY

what, actually, do you have a boyfriend for?

*shakes head slowly from side to side w/ wry grin*

My condolences to Walter Koenig

If only it was true that Walter Koenig read the Thread!

28442

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 26, 2010 8:28 AM

You know, I looked at him on the news and thought "shit, we're getting old" !

If only it was true that Walter Koenig read the Thread!

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 26, 2010 8:33 AM

Guanine monophosphate my ass! Would be guanosine monophosphate! <headdesk>

Anyway, here's a bit of non-Mormon madness. It's non-religious madness, even (at least there's no evidence that religion was involved, and no reason to think it was). I tried to find the Agence France Presse reportthis (in German) was based on, but I can't find it at afp.com, and neither can Google. I found the original article in the Folha de São Paulo, but my reading comprehension of Portuguese isn't that good (…never even tried to learn it…), so I'll summarize the German third-hand report:

In Ivinhema in Brasil, a woman was about to give birth and wanted a caesarean section. Instead of doing something, the two physicians started quarreling. They rolled on the floor together while the woman shouted at them to stop. After 1 ¹/₂ hours, a third doctor came in to perform the section, but by then the baby had already been born dead (…the original seems to say that an emergency section was performed, but was too late). The husband says the baby had been healthy up to then ("minha filha estava saudabilíssima" in the original, which also names names). The police is investigating…

"surreal e inimaginável" indeed!

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 8:43 AM

one of Bobby's best IMO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mke6YlGSFBU
Donna-haters can fucking bite me

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 26, 2010 8:53 AM

Warning: mice can jump much, much higher than you think they can!

All else being equal, jumping height does not depend on absolute body size. It is directly proportional to leg length (itself proportional to body length) and to muscle cross-sectional area (itself proportional to body length²), and indirectly proportional to body mass (itself proportional to body mass³)… these factors cancel each other out.

Of course, all else is never equal, but in terms of leg anatomy and the like, mice are probably better built for jumping from a stand than we are.

But I am surprised at your evident surprise about cGMP sensu biochemico.

In hindsight, so am I. I distinctly remember learning about its role in the vertebrate retina; I think I've even repeatedly lectured creationists about it right here on Pharyngula.

here or here and here.

Ah, thanks a lot. I'll watch the videos later. :-)

* * *

I got an e-mail that looks like the usual 419 scam and was probably written by professional 419 scammers, but… it's not a 419 scam.

EVANGELIST MARY SIMPSON
510 Trail One A9 STROUDSBURG
PENNSYLVANIA 18360 USA.

DEAR SIR/MADAM

WE ARE HAITI CITIZENS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATE [sic] WHOM THEIR FAMILIES ARE AFFECTED BY THE RECENT EARTHQUAKE,WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO RAISE MONEY TO HELP THE HAITI CITIZENS WHO ARE WITHOUT FOODS,DRUG AND SHELTER,SO WE PLEAD THAT YOU SUPPORT US WITH WHAT EVER YOU CAN.ALL DONATIONS SHOULD BE SEND THROUGH WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER BECAUSE OF THE URGENT ATTENTION NEEDED.DO SEND IT TO THE INFORMATIONs BELOW;

Name:Dennis Walter
Address:18623 Ipava Avenue
City:Lakeville
State:Minnesota
Zip code:55044
Country:USA

PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU FORWARD THE WESTERN UNION INFORMATION SUCH AS SENDERS NAME,AMOUNT SENT AND THE MTCN(10 digits).WE PRAY THAT ALMIGHTY GOD WILL BLESS YOU AS YOU ARE HELPING THE SUFFERING HAITI CITIZENS.

EVANGELIST MARY SIMPSON(SECRETARY)

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 26, 2010 8:55 AM

FYI if no one has seen the Ken Burns series on the National Parks that PBS is currently running with weekly installments, please take time to watch it.

It's fantastic. His Jazz series was my favorite and I haven't seen the Baseball one yet (kicks self) but this one is high quality and has given me a new respect for some of the players in the creation of the National Parks system that I knew (John Muir, Ansel Adams, FDR, Theodore Roosevelt) and some who I didn't (Harold LeClaire Ickes).

Well worth the couple of hours a week that it is on.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 26, 2010 9:02 AM

Oh and for Jazz fans (I'm looking at you Sven) Dave Holland is starting to release live shows from his website for a buck each. Not too shabby.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 26, 2010 9:08 AM

Linky to the PBS National Parks show page.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 26, 2010 9:16 AM

Me too. His music is so new compared to a lot of jazz that's out there.

Posted by: CunningLingus | February 26, 2010 9:23 AM

Stumbled across this awesome website/page.

http://www.johnkyrk.com/evolution.swf

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 26, 2010 9:37 AM

And you can listen to that whole show there online for nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Bagel. Doughnut. Zip.

Free as in Beer.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 9:52 AM

First UPDATE of Year Two. What a pain in the ass with subThreads every other day. Can't we all just shut up a little bit?

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 26, 2010 10:28 AM

Jeffrey @380

Lynna - hope all goes well with you, let us know how things turn out with tests. Also, do not hesitate to ask for further aid.

This eliminates one possible cause for a brain-offline event (January 15th, for those not tracking Lynna's medical history). The next step is to get a CT Angiography, with contrast, to eliminate other possibilities, like a brain tumor, or groups of neurons picketing for higher wages and increased oxygen. I have about half the cost of that test saved, and I also was able to pay for a visit to the doctor. I'm getting there, bit by bit.

I think it was Jadehawk who postulated earlier that I could have the necessary tests and still not know what the hell is wrong with me. I guess I would prefer not to die from something preventable.

I identified with Keith Olbermann's rant about the health care system, and the idiotic opposition to reform.

As for the joke up-thread about aliens eating mormons and pissing gasoline, my neurons LOLed ... then they demanded coffee.

Word of Wisdom: Pharyngula goes well with coffee in the morning and beer in the evening.

Patricia in her burnished brass breastplate, riding a Harley ... now that's good stuff.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 10:31 AM

better

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 26, 2010 10:51 AM

After having rented 4-5 places and never getting my damage deposit refunded regardless of whether I damaged anything or not (in one place I refinished the hardwood floors, re-painted the entire unit (including cabinets) and replaced all the plumbing fixtures and still didn't get my deposit back), I said "fuck it".

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | February 26, 2010 10:58 AM

Miss M, a respectable atheist of a certain age, is, as I write, engaged in a sit-in, protesting the closure of a Day Care Centre founded by Catholic Nuns and supported by the faithful of Penzance.
Oh, the ironies that Politics creates!

Posted by: menckensghost | February 26, 2010 11:00 AM

Right on, Janine! Fripp's work on "Baby's On Fire" is my candidate for Greatest-Ever Guitar Solo.

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | February 26, 2010 11:08 AM

Molly Ivins is dead?
For three years?
Fuck. I just started reading her!
fukfuckfuck
I wish I could do that HTML stuff.
fuck

Posted by: boygenius | February 26, 2010 11:12 AM

Donna-haters can fucking bite me

Ha! I never understood the animosity some people have towards Donna. Sure, she was off-key on occasion but when she was good, she was very good.

I saw her play a small club (Terrapin Station) in Boise last year with the Zen Tricksters backing her up. She can still sing the hell out of a song (although the between-song banter was a little godbotty).

An aside; the club was having plumbing issues that night so the restrooms were out of order. Instead, there were two Porta-Potties out in the alley behind the building. Donna kinda threw a fit (though I don't blame her)and demanded that one of them be reserved exclusively for the band only. So... long lines waiting for one Porta-Pottie that was standing right next to an empty, unused one.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | February 26, 2010 12:02 PM

oh ...

nevermind

I really should read all the comments before commenting, but then I'd post even less than I do now.

Thanks for the explanation, NoROM.

Posted by: MrFire | February 26, 2010 12:15 PM

Turns out that the scumbag landlord was a regular in court, kept a scumbag lawyer on his payroll and considered that the poor folk deserved whatever they got.

Sheesh, what a jackoff.

Near the end of one lease, I found a note under my door. My landlord claimed that I had made an oral contract, at the beginning of that year, to leave some number of days early (though he had no written proof, gave no reminders, nothing). He had tenants ready to move in that day. So my then-girlfriend and I had to pack up an entire apartment of shit and move it out to my dad's place in less than 24h. He also took a chunk out of our security deposit, claiming costs for putting the new tenants up in a hotel. Fucking rat.

The girlfriend and I were teetering at a breakup then, but our combined hatred of him helped keep the relationship sputtering for another two years.

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold | February 26, 2010 12:32 PM

Here in the UK Landlords holding onto deposits when tenants left a property became such a problem the Government introduced a law requiring that the deposit be held by a third party, and that the Landlord could only gain access to all or part of the deposit on production of evidence of either damage to the property, or financial loss owing to the tenant breaking the terms of the letting agreement.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 26, 2010 12:48 PM

I've never lost a dime of my deposit to a landlord. The trick is to document, document, document. I take one bazillion digital images on move-in, and submit a letter to the landlord documenting the damage, and also mail a copy of the letter (with photos) to myself without opening it (the post-mark secures the date). I have had two landlords try to keep my deposit. I explained my system of documentation and the fact that in the state that these events took place (OH-IO!) a landlord sued for wrongful witholding could be charged up to three times the amount of the deposit. They both wrote checks immediately.

The Seleucid King does not take shit from the man.

Posted by: davem | February 26, 2010 12:54 PM

Lynna @222:

Keith Olbermann talks about "death panels", the entire health care debacle, and his father's experiences with the health care system. Olbermann swears at Sarah Palin, and generally makes a very strong statement. Long, but worth watching.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 26, 2010 1:07 PM

Ah, I see up-thread that people smarter than I am simply assumed from the start that the landlord-and-renter relationship would be adversarial. And they took precautions. I, on the other hand, assumed that my having to clean the apartment, removing years of filth, before I could even move in, and then leaving it in excellent condition would earn me gold stars.

davem @440, yes! Olbermann nailed it and he nailed it perfectly. A mix of hard facts and personal experience. I am one of those people who does have to worry about money while in the throes of the stress caused by illness. If you are one month late on a payment, most providers will simply send a collection agency after you. They won't be quite that cruel themselves, but they will hire someone else to be cruel for them. Hence the huge number of bankruptcies in the USA caused by medical expenses.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 26, 2010 1:13 PM

We do the walkthrough (inspection report) on moving in and moving out too. It's better in the age of digital cameras than it was when I first moved out of Chez Mom & Dad, but I've still encountered landlords and building managers who've said things during the move in inspection like, "Oh, that little mark? That's nothing. Look, the more anal you are filling this out now, the harder the landlord is gonna be on inspection when you move out." It's an easy enough ruse to see through now, but this is also a college town and I shudder to think of the number of young and international students who get screwed because they don't know the culture or their rights. I've taken foreign students apartment hunting, mostly because many landlords won't even show you a suite for rent if you've got an African accent, even if you offer to pay a year's worth of rent in cash up front. I feel for many landlords who have to deal with abusive, non-paying tenants who understand the law well enough to know how to effectively squat without getting legally evicted, but the power is more often in the hands of the owners.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 26, 2010 1:17 PM

boygenius @ 379:

In my next apartment, I painted a four foot diameter Steal Your Face on the living room wall. Sure enough, when I moved out the landlord kept my security deposit to pay for re-painting the living room. Two months later, I was sitting in a club talking to some folks and they started raving about the apartment they just rented that had a "bitchin' Steal Your Face" on the living room wall. Bastard didn't even paint the wall, just kept my $800 and re-rented the place to some other Deadhead.

Something similar happened to me once. A duplex I rented had a double door closet in the living room. I painted a section of weeping willow on the doors, spanned the whole thing. People used to see it through the window and compliment me all the time. When the landlord saw it, he bitched, moaned and complained. I shrugged. When it was time for me to move out, I offered to pay him the cost of the doors, I wanted to take them with me. He refused, then complained about having to have them sanded and repainted because he wouldn't be able to rent until he did. I found out later he doubled the rent for the next people because of the doors and the kitchen. (I had custom painted the kitchen, and put up quotations all over the walls and cupboards.) Asshole.

BTW, Caine; you can come paint on my kitchen walls anytime! I own this house.

Hee. Thank you! I painted larger than life naked wimmin on my husband's office walls. It was interesting, taking people on house tours not long after we moved in. ;D

Posted by: MrFire | February 26, 2010 1:27 PM

I have a little experience with this, being someone who's struggled with low-level depression for most of my adult life and five years had an episode so severe it required four years of meds and group CBT.

Please tell me that was five years ago and not for five years.

What kinds of CBT exercises were most helpful to you, if you don't mind me asking?

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 1:43 PM

Walter Koenig!

hee.

Walt's a pal of one of my ex-wives.
[/kw*k][if Kw*k had an ex-wife][let alone 2 of 'em]

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 26, 2010 2:45 PM

Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu &cetera...
It may come as a surprise but there are more than a few good evolutionary biologists at BYU, and at least two that I know of are Mormon.

Posted by: JeffreyD | February 26, 2010 3:22 PM

lynna at #418 - Thanks for the update. You have my email, write if you need anything.

Strange gods, thanks for the update on your friend.

Credo elvem etiam vivere.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 26, 2010 4:05 PM

Please tell me that was five years ago and not for five years.

Both, actually. An unhealthy long-term relationship that I still don't understand--though I think I agree with friends who think I was being emotionally abused--ended just over five years ago, and the breakup devastated me. For four years I was on meds and being treated. This most recent October marked the one-year anniversary of my being out of therapy and off SSRIs.

What kinds of CBT exercises were most helpful to you, if you don't mind me asking.

As for exercises, we didn't do any. We'd just talk about whatever, and the idea was that through interacting in that setting people would naturally start repeating the behaviours that were causing the problems, which could then be identified, the root causes understood, and the pattern slowly broken. We'd meet once a week for 2.5 hours under the guidance of a therapist. Usually someone would start off by talking about something that had happened over the week and everybody would discuss it. It was a strange process, unlike anything else I've encountered. One of the first things newcomers to the group would learn is not to try to diffuse tension. If someone was on the verge of tears, not only would you not try to lighten the atmosphere with a joke (one of my mechanisms) or words of comfort, but you'd actually pick at them until they broke down, if you could. As cheesy as it sounds, this scene with Matt Damon and Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting shows the type of thing you'd actively try to achieve. Generally, the less comfortable you felt in any given session, the more likely you were doing good work.

The first signs of improvement weren't immediately obvious. I didn't feel either my anxiety or depression actually lessen, but I started to notice I was walking a little more confidently without thinking about it. Or I'd I have some sort of interaction with a friend or girlfriend in which my reaction was very normal and appropriate, and later it would occur to me that the same interaction five years ago would have sent me spiraling into feelings of worthlessness, or whatever.

What was especially difficult for me was in accepting and dealing with emotion. I tend to over-intellectualise things, and could easily ferret out and understand how some certain behaviour I engage in was related to some traumatic pattern of events in my childhood, but the thing that still gives me trouble is feeling sad over those events, grieving and moving on. If I ever completely figure it out, I'll be sure to let you all know.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 26, 2010 4:08 PM

Pikachu @451, The question of BYU and the Theory of Evolution cannot be clearly answered. This is because one of the strategies of the General Authority and of The First Presidency is to present such a blurred picture of mormon doctrine and theology that most people give up and just "allow the Holy Spirit" to guide them. This leaves the geriatric leaders free to be expedient when it comes to earning money, rules of tithing, rules of behavior, accepting the conclusions of science (or not), and pretending to be knowledgeable.

A couple of decades ago, leaders were more willing to make definitive statements. And even further back in time, especially in Brigham Young's time, scoffing at the Theory of Evolution was the norm.

As far as the actual students and professors go, I can give you one telling detail: A geology student goes from geology class to religion class. He finds the two conflict when it comes to a description of reality. He questions his professor of geology, and the professor says (paraphrasing here), "I teach my subject and stay out of their way."

Here are a few comments on the subject from Steve Benson:

As a BYU undergraduate over 20 years ago, I decided to undertake a comprehensive research paper on the Mormon Church’s official position on the theory of organic evolution.
     During the lengthy period of my studies, I concluded that the Church’s stance on the theory of organic evolution was confused, contradictory, unreasonable, unscientific and uninspired.
     While doing research for the paper, I spoke and/or corresponded directly with Mormon Church President Spencer W. Kimball, my grandfather and President of the Quorum of the Twelve Ezra Taft Benson, LDS Apostles Mark E. Petersen and Bruce R. McConkie, and Church Coordinator of Correlation Roy Doxey, as well as with a variety of campus religious and science professors.
     By way of education, I also took university classes in various scientific disciplines, including zoology, geology, sociobiology, astronomy and meteorology, as well as several courses in religious instruction, focusing particular attention on the Book of Mormon....
     My grandfather, as well as my father, were not pleased with the direction my research was headed and tried desperately to halt it, or at least change its focus.
     They even attempted to dissuade me from finishing the paper. Failing that, they applied pressure (also unsuccessfully) on me to allow my grandfather, my father Mark Benson, my BYU Book of Mormon instructing-uncle Reed Benson and/or Apostle McConkie to preview and critique my preliminary findings before eventual submission to my professors....
     No doubt, my father wrote the letter out of genuine love and concern, with what he felt were my best interests at heart. Unfortunately, he sought to accomplish his goal of controlling the outcome of my research efforts through strong-arm tactics. Those tactics included:
--demanding unswerving obedience to Church authority
--attacking scientific inquiry and the motives of scientists
--questioning the character of intellectuals
--warning against the loss of personal testimony
--and dangling the specter of eternal condemnation for failure to follow the dictates of Mormonism ... [Benson inserts here the letter from his father, which includes many comments from many mormon Apostles, plus mind-numbing scripture-quoting]
[excerpt]:

the First Presidency of the Church elaborated by stating: ‘It is held by some that Adam wasn’t the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creations. These however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was ‘the first man of all men’ (Moses 1: 34), and we are therefore duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race.’ (Improvement Era 13: 75-81, November 1909)
     “To my knowledge this statement of the First Presidency has never been rescinded and is the last official position of the Church on evolution and the origin of man. Moreover, there are ‘living’ Prophets, Seers and Revelators today that have been outspoken in their support in this position (Notably President Benson, Elder Petersen and Elder McConkie and all of the Council of the Twelve). To my knowledge, there is no living Prophet, Seer and Revelator who has taken exception to it. The living Prophets are more important to us today than the dead Prophets, and without a statement from President Kimball to the contrary and with three present members of the Twelve in visible support of it, it seems to me the statement of President Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder and Anthon A. Lund is authoritative and represents the official position of the Church....
     NEVER TRUST A SCIENTIST I would remind you again of the words of Elder John A. Widtsoe, ‘The doctrine of the common origin of life on earth is but a scientific theory and should be viewed as such.

     On September 9th, 1981, my father wrote me a follow-up letter, ...The letter was printed on the letterhead of Cleon Skousen’s right-wing “Freemen Institute,” for whom my father worked as a vice-president. ... “Grandpa:[Prophet Ezra Taft Benson] ‘Write nothing that will diminish faith and testimony.’...

There's still a large and active contingent of mormons who are young earthers. One of their current heroes is Rodney Meldrum. We have discussed Meldrum's dishonest "documentary" before: See this comment

And also see comment #106 on the same thread linked above. That was the thread in which we also discussed Josh the geologists toenails and the injuries thereto -- so in case you missed that fascinating discussion...

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 26, 2010 4:11 PM

The utterly unsurprising truth about Abydosaurus, as acknowledged in the comments by one of the authors.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 26, 2010 4:30 PM

The comment to which David M. refers @460:

As one of the authors on the paper describing Abydosaurus, I want to say that this is the finest review of a scientific paper I have ever seen. I wish I had realized the truth of the specimen before devoting so much of my scientific career to it.
     The demonic paper is freely available at http://www.springerlink.com/content/lpn30h8tx2231223/fulltext.pdf
     Dan Chure

Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD | February 26, 2010 5:11 PM

This is odd. Greg Laden's blog doesn't link to Pharyngula in his blog roll. Am I missing something?

BS

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 26, 2010 5:36 PM

The utterly unsurprising truth about Abydosaurus, as acknowledged in the comments by one of the authors.

Oh, can we discredit all those fossils found in China as "Maoist" propaganda?

Posted by: llewelly | February 26, 2010 6:01 PM

Oh, can we discredit all those fossils found in China as "Maoist" propaganda?

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 26, 2010 7:30 PM

It has occasionally been mentioned that the current lack of creationists cyber-here, caused by obligatory registration, has made this a more boring place.

Are creationists generally incapable of figuring out how to create a TypePad account and log in?

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 26, 2010 7:54 PM

"What's the entry fee?" I asked the desk-man.

"Two fifty," he said.

"What if I told you I had a Vincent Black Shadow?"

He stared up at me, saying nothing, not friendly. I noticed he was wearing a .38 revolver on his belt. "Forget it," I said. "My driver's sick anyway."

His eyes narrowed. "Your driver ain't the only one sick around here, buddy."

"He has a bone in his throat," I said.

"What?"

The man was getting ugly, but suddenly his eyes switched away. He was staring at something else . . .

My attorney; no longer wearing his Danish sunglasses, no longer wearing his Acapulco shirt . . . a very crazy looking person, half-naked and breathing heavily.

"What's the trouble here?" he croaked. "This man is my client. Are you prepared to go to court?"

I grabbed his shoulder and gently spun him around. "Never mind," I said. "It's the Black Shadow -- they won't accept it."

"Wait a minute!" he shouted. "What do you mean, they won't accept it? Have you made a deal with these pigs?"

"Certainly not," I said, pushing him along toward the gate. "But you notice they're all armed. We're the only people here without guns. Can't you hear that shooting over there?"

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 26, 2010 8:26 PM

SC @#519 from the last subThread (sorry for late reply):

Moreover, the system is fundamentally wrong and undemocratic - why should communities, as part of the world, not decide economic matters like they do political (in theory)?

This, I think, is at the crux of our ideological disagreement.

In the end, people produce different amounts of wealth. Some people have more skill, talent and education than others. And people who are successful seek to pass on to their children whatever advantages they have gained in life. People are, in short, naturally unequal. I presume you wouldn't disagree with this, since it's plain fact.

With this in mind, I do not think that wealth automatically belongs to the whole community. Some wealth does, but not all. A person who produces wealth owes a certain amount to the social infrastructure that allowed her or him to produce that wealth: education, police protection, transport infrastructure, the courts, and so on. And it is right that individuals should pay reasonable taxes for the upkeep of that infrastructure. But this does not mean that all the wealth a person produces belongs to the community.

Of course, it is ultimately up to the community, as a whole, to delineate property rights and the rules governing contracts and transactions - to decide who owns what, and how they may dispose of it. But I would argue that, in granting such rights, the community should allow productive individuals the freedom, within certain limits, to enjoy the fruits of their labours. In the end, humans are largely self-interested creatures; in order to ensure continued productivity, and consequent wealth-creation, we need to have a society in which more productive people enjoy more wealth and reward.

This doesn't mean that the current capitalist order necessarily serves this goal. Land ownership in much of the world, for instance, has its historic roots in various waves of historic land theft and violent coercion (as you have pointed out, correctly, on many occasions), and there is therefore a strong argument, for instance, for high inheritance taxes and duties on land, to redistribute the benefits of land to the whole community. But there is a big difference between land, which is not produced through human effort, and those goods and services which are produced through human effort. The latter, I would suggest, should be commodities sold for the benefit of those who produce them.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 26, 2010 8:30 PM

I miss Hunter.

Posted by: Bobber | February 26, 2010 8:48 PM

I have no intention of butting in to this conversation, but I just wanted to interject the following as food for thought.

Walton said:

In the end, people produce different amounts of wealth.

Define "produce". Define "wealth". Take into account what these things mean in a village where there is not much in the way of cash. How would, say, the friends I made among the indigenous population of Guatemala define those terms, and how might they be different/similar to your own?

Some people have more skill, talent and education than others.

This, too, is relative to circumstances. Is the stock trader more skilled, talented, and educated than his mechanic? Conventional wisdom would say yes, and certainly the salary differential would seem to indicate which position is the more valuable. But if the stock trader's job depended upon him getting to work every day on time, and his car broke down...

There's playing within the rules of the game, and then there's understanding that the rules of the game have very little bearing to anything more than a contrived reality, established by the rulesmakers themselves. And how did they get to establish the rules? "He who has the gold..."

And people who are successful seek to pass on to their children whatever advantages they have gained in life.

Would it not be nobler to pass on to their society whatever advantages they have gained in life?

People are, in short, naturally unequal.

People are naturally different. That does not render them unequal, in any way that should matter.

Just throwing out my two cents. Just thinking aloud.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 26, 2010 8:59 PM

Blind Squirrel - Thanks for the link to the chicken sweaters, what a group of kind hearted knitters!

Actually, y'll my date is Saturday. If any of you Oregon or Washington pharyngulites will be at the Portland Home & Garden Show I'd be happy to meet you there. *back to polishing up the bosoms*

Posted by: Frankosaurus, Cupcake of Death | February 26, 2010 9:02 PM

walton, just want to say that there's absolutely no benefit to reading at 2am. Unless you have a gun to your head, it's a bad habit to get into

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 26, 2010 9:26 PM

Francosaurus. No one wants to hear your opinions. Go away.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 26, 2010 9:33 PM

fuckosaurus, no one here cares about your anti-nightowl sentiments. as a matter of fact, the middle of the night is the only sensible time to try to read anything without distractions.

Posted by: SC OM | February 26, 2010 9:40 PM

sgbm, that's "fuckasaurus," don't forget.

But isn't he a homophobe?* If so, fitting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Spain#Repression_under_Franco.27s_regime

(That's not even a tiny portion of the horror.)

*Am I confusing him with someone else?

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 26, 2010 10:09 PM

But there is a big difference between land, which is not produced through human effort, and those goods and services which are produced through human effort. The latter, I would suggest, should be commodities sold for the benefit of those who produce them.

Comrade, wouldn't you agree that worker-owned cooperatives -- of the type that exist now even in capitalist countries, where only the workers at a particular business own the business, not a universally-owned dictatorship of the proletariat -- meet this requirement?

And wouldn't you agree that to the extent self-interest can be harnessed to organize commerce, such cooperatives function efficiently?

(Perhaps even more efficiently, since in comparison with a sole proprietorship, a greater number of people at the business are being rewarded with a larger proportion of the value they created through their labor?)

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 26, 2010 10:36 PM

No trolls?

Surely we can't have eaten them all. *snort*

Posted by: Frankosaurus, Cupcake of Death | February 26, 2010 10:49 PM

Geez, do you really dispute the value of a good night's sleep?

and thanks for digging that up, strange gods. Is this going to be another one of your sulk sessions?

Posted by: Patricia, OM | February 26, 2010 10:56 PM

Bride are you going to the atheist meeting down your way?

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | February 26, 2010 11:03 PM

Sure am Patricia

I'm expecting a good old fashioned, skirt-twirling time joined by Wowbagger, Rorscach, Cath the Canberra Cook and Deb in Oz plus a multitude of others ( 67 for dinner to be exact but many more at the drinks planned for Friday arvo)

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 26, 2010 11:19 PM

Geez, do you really dispute the value of a good night's sleep?

and thanks for digging that up, strange gods. Is this going to be another one of your sulk sessions?

Oy. Don't you get it? No one here cares about a thing you say. Be gone before someone drops a house(or a ton of bacon) on you.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 26, 2010 11:23 PM

The International Journal of Thread Studies has finally published posted its gala special-issue Threadiversary Retrospective.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 26, 2010 11:36 PM

Sven @502: The Threadiversary Retrospective is fucking beautiful, Sven. I love both the graphs and your commentary. You have done us proud.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 12:06 AM

I miss Hunter.

Who ?

Actually, that reminds me, where's Dana Hunter the Tequila Lady ?

And certain Assistant Professors have some explaining regarding their time management to do !!

:D

Posted by: boygenius | February 27, 2010 1:30 AM

Sigh. Self described leader of the Aryan Nations, Paul R Mullet, has announced the group's intentions to purchase property in John Day, OR to establish a headquarters and training facility.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704625004575090473593719004.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5

While I would be glad to have them out of Idaho, if they move to John Day they'll actually be closer to me than if they stay in Coeur d'Alene. Luckily, the locals in John Day are putting up a fuss.

http://www.krem.com/home/Oregonians-protest-North-Idaho-white-supremacists-in-Oregon-85548962.html

Fuckin' Nazi fucks.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 27, 2010 3:16 AM

Self described leader of the Aryan Nations, Paul R Mullet

Paul R Mullet? Paul R Mullet?!

Posted by: boygenius | February 27, 2010 3:27 AM

I shit you not. His name is Paul R. Mullet. Unfortunately, he's not sporting one in any of the pictures I've seen. He's not stereotypically skin-headed, but neither is he mulleted. :(

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 4:20 AM

Stand up--Bill Maher on Rick Warren

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 4:32 AM

A sign from the Messiah !

Dave Allen on Religion

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 27, 2010 6:12 AM

Random comment: This pisses me off. Yet another scare article about the "rise of" antibiotic-resistant diseases. The phrase isn't "rise of"; it's "evolution of". Argh. No wonder three-quarters of the country doesn't believe in evolution when even the most clear-cut cases aren't labeled correctly.

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold | February 27, 2010 6:54 AM

Yes. There are several businesses in the UK which are collectively owned by their workers, such as the John Lewis Partnership. I don't know of anyone who has a problem with this; in a free society, if people want to set up a worker-owed co-operative, they are entirely free to do so. It works fine, as far as I can tell, and is no less legitimate than any other business model.

It seems to be a very effective model. Better than shareholder ownership in terms of stability.

Posted by: boygenius | February 27, 2010 7:29 AM

@ Alan B; Sounds like a big 'un.

Thanks for the updates and the links. Cue Pat Robertson or some other asshole blaming it on lesbians/liberals/copper mining(?), etc. in 3.. 2.. 1..

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 7:41 AM

Greg Laden: Turns out, René Descartes trolled his own site.

Ehm, Feynmaniac, I fail to see the shock value here I think ! But then, I'm so pleasantly inebriated if I was a guitar I would weep right now....

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 7:56 AM

But then again, Im drunk enough I might hit theCold Cold Ground soon.

But come to think of it, In the neighborhood there might be similarly intoxicated people !

Well, I figure if you're unhappy with your day and stuff so far, you could always get yourself some Chocolate Jesus

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 27, 2010 8:05 AM

One has to Wonder what the Chileans did to deserve this.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 8:11 AM

boygenius,

thanks for the links, the guy is pretty cool !

Posted by: boygenius | February 27, 2010 8:18 AM

you could always get yourself some Chocolate Jesus

I'll see your Chocolate Jesus and raise you one Big Butter Jesus.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 27, 2010 8:26 AM

Aha! Found it: Faith No More: Chariots of Fire/Stripsearch

Posted by: Knockgoats | February 27, 2010 8:42 AM

All it means is that we derive benefits from others acting in their own self-interest. It's common sense: if A produces something that B wants, and B produces something that A wants, then, by exchanging, they both benefit. Both are acting in their own self-interest, but the transaction is good for everyone. Where's the "magical thinking" in that? - Walton

The magical thinking is in personifying "the market". But I was mostly teasing: presumably only magical beings could have "invisiblehands".

Posted by: Rorschach | February 27, 2010 8:46 AM

Pogues--Eve of Destruction

Stukas over Disneyland

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 27, 2010 8:53 AM

just want to say that there's absolutely no benefit to reading at 2am

That depends entirely on when you got up and how much sleep you need.

Besides, I once or twice started reading a book in the evening and, undistracted, simply couldn't stop before I had finished the book at probably 6 am. (I didn't dare try to find out if that estimate was correct either time.) I can't seriously regret that – while both books weren't ingenious, they were well written, and they gave me something to think about. I did get several hours of sleep afterwards in both cases.

Multiculturalism, multi-orientationism, multi-everything is inherently self-contradictory, for to the extent that "equality" is a value above all else, we recognize that the US would be quite the same country as if it were 60% latino, 30% black, and 50% gay. But of course it would be an enormously different country that most of us would be unhappy with.

:-o

<headdesk>

What would make you unhappy about it?

What in the fuck makes you think any population ever could become 50 % gay? Male homosexuality, at least, runs in families (together with increased female fertility!), and is more common in younger brothers than in elder ones. Unless someone enacts a cruel breeding program for teh ghey, 50 % just ain't gonna happen.

mmmm..... roleplay.....

:-)

Or to put it another way: I also found this. And hate* is... not good. It... poisons the... something... whatever. Uh... a Jedi... fuck the Jedi. I can explain everything I understand. If I couldn't explain it to others, I couldn't explain it to myself, and if I couldn't explain it to myself, I wouldn't understand it.

And it's not like I wouldn't learn anything in the process either.

* Let alone self-hate.

Here was another post from PZ documenting the kind of sloppy thinking that makes one despair, and then the whole discussion was turned into a thread that was not only worthwhile, but positively enlightening.

Oh, so I should check it out after all. Will do so soon.

The International Journal of Thread Studies has finally published posted its gala special-issue Threadiversary Retrospective.

And the first comment is by PZ :-)

I shit you not. His name is Paul R. Mullet. Unfortunately, he's not sporting one in any of the pictures I've seen. He's not stereotypically skin-headed, but neither is he mulleted. :(

Is that something to look up in the Urban Dictionary? My dead-tree one knows the word but only equates it with two fish species.

There has been what is defined as a "Great" earthquake in Chile. Great means greater than 8 on the Moment scale (similar to but not the same as the old Richter Scale - which ought to be dumped but is probably too engrained in the public mind).

I had no idea of that earthquake or the moment scale. Wikipedia explains the latter (footnotes removed):

[The Richter] scale was based on the ground motion measured by a particular type of seismometer at a distance of 100 km from the earthquake. Because of this, there is an upper limit on the highest measurable magnitude; all large earthquakes will have a local magnitude of around 7. The local magnitude's estimate of earthquake size is also unreliable for measurements taken at a distance of more than about 350 miles (600 km) from the earthquake's epicenter.

The moment magnitude (M_w) scale was introduced in 1979 by Caltech seismologists Thomas C. Hanks and Hiroo Kanamori to address these shortcomings while maintaining consistency. Thus, for medium-sized earthquakes, the moment magnitude values should be similar to Richter values. That is, a magnitude 5.0 earthquake will be about a 5.0 on both scales. This scale was based on the physical properties of the earthquake, specifically the seismic moment (M₀). Unlike other scales, the moment magnitude scale does not saturate at the upper end; there is no upper limit to the possible measurable magnitudes. However, this has the side-effect that the scales diverge for smaller earthquakes.

Moment magnitude is now the most common measure for medium to large earthquake magnitudes, but breaks down for smaller quakes. For example, the United States Geological Survey does not use this scale for earthquakes with a magnitude of less than 3.5, which is the great majority of quakes. For these smaller quakes, other magnitude scales are used. [...]

Magnitude scales differ from earthquake intensity, which is the perceptible moving, shaking, and local damages experienced during a quake. The shaking intensity at a given spot depends on many factors, such as soil types, soil sublayers, depth, type of displacement, and range from the epicenter (not counting the complications of building engineering and architectural factors). Rather, they are used to estimate only the total energy released by the quake.

I feel smarter now. :-)

Interestingly, the article also exists in Haitian Creole, though it's a bit short there.

8.8 Moment

:-O

Scary.

blaming it on lesbians/liberals/copper mining(?)

:-D

Posted by: boygenius | February 27, 2010 9:10 AM

David M asked:

Is that something to look up in the Urban Dictionary?

Yay!! I finally get to teach David something he doesn't know, instead of it always being the other way around.

This is a mullet. Long in the back, short in the front and nothing in the middle.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 27, 2010 9:19 AM

I might have mentioned a few weeks ago that I was faith-healed following a panel-discussion with some UU’s. The student who healed me* gave me her phone-number so that I could call her when my conversion was complete. I got better, thanks to the love of Jesus and a strong cocktail of antibiotics. The problem is, that I am sick again, and of course this leaves me in a pickle. Dealing with the sickness is no big deal…I get another cocktail of antibiotics and schedule surgery for the early summer. Both of these are effective at treating my problem…I’m a little young to be in trouble with the disease I have, but whatever…it’s not life-threatening.

The pickle is this: I could call the student and explain that the woo only took temporarily or not at all. But its not a good experiment in my eyes; it’s hardly unheard of for people to recover from this malady entirely without the aid of talismans…I can’t imagine that my continued suffering would shake her faith either…what’s worse, I dread the repeat interaction where I get waved at and gestured to and chanted over again. I’m not sure what is considered good etiquette during such a ceremony. Here’s what it reminded me of. Have you ever had an acquaintance read you bad but original poetry?…you just stand there with your thumb up your ass trying to appear to be interested in the poem, but at the same time growing more and more uncomfortable because you have no idea when the poem will end. On one hand you could say something afterwards that would not be rude, but insufficiently positive…basically a form of damnation with faint praise. On the other hand, you may choose to gratify the poet by saying something insincere but positive…in which case you may have another poem said at you.

I guess there is no dilemma, because there is no way in hell I am ever calling that chick. This has been a pointless post.

*Well…really it was Jesus, but she was the instrument of his love for me. This makes the experience sound worse than it was.

Posted by: boygenius | February 27, 2010 9:28 AM

And it's dreaded cousin, the skullet.

Hehe. The "skullet". Freakin' Jesse Ventura; have y'all seen his show Conspiracy Theory?

As a born and raised Minnesotan, I am ashamed that he was ever elected Governor. The fact that he has either sold out or gone off the deep end with his sniny new woo saturated TV show only turns that shame into contempt.

Posted by: Dania | February 27, 2010 9:57 AM

...and Faith No More blew my fucking mind - they played Stripsearch (my favourite of their songs) but made it even more awesome by segueing into it with a rocked up version of Chariots of Fire.

Damn you, Wowbagger. Such high levels of envy cannot be healthy!

[But thanks for the link. ;)]

Posted by: Alan B | February 27, 2010 10:11 AM

#528 Nerd of Redhead OM

I'm sure it has more to do with living near a plate subduction zone ...

Now, Nerd. You've been told that's all wrong.

Where are Alan Clarke and RogerS when you need an explanation? Oh yes. I remember. Alan Clarke got himself banned and RogerS seems to have lost a bit of interest in the Thread.

Hey, RogerS, my friend. You're welcome to come on in and explain all about how real geologists have got it wrong about plate subduction - you remember, Alan Clarke was going to put us all right according to his hypothesis (read "wild guess") about Flood geology® but he seemed to have other things to do like fill in his tax return ...

Can you find out what his "wild guess" was so that we can put Nerd straight on this?

(Or not as the case may be.)

Before you (or Pat Roberston) go too far, remember what Jesus had to say about the 18 deaths when the Tower of Siloam fell in His time. You won't need me to tell you but it's Luke 13, is it not?

Posted by: Knockgoats | February 27, 2010 10:12 AM

Do you have any plans to visit the south or do I need to make the trek up the far north for a drink? - JeffreyD

I'll be making a brief visit "daarn saarf" in late March - I'm doing a PhD oral as external on 23rd. I'm returning on the sleeper from London late that day, but haven't yet booked my travel down, so could come down a bit early if you'd be around. I'm then away in France (brother-in-law and partner have had a place in the Alps for several years, always asking us to come and stay, we're finally getting round to it) until (I think) 2nd April. No specific plans after that, but let me know your dates when fixed - maybe we'll finally get to meet!

Posted by: Dania | February 27, 2010 10:29 AM

Alan B, #550:

And isn't Chile one of those places where volcanoes are on the wrong side of the trench? No? Oh, never mind...

Posted by: Alan B | February 27, 2010 10:54 AM

#540 David Marjanović

Hey, my friend. You've got the Moment scale sussed out. How about the Modified Mercalli scale or MM?

That will give you the set:

Moment to estimate the energy involved and
Modified Mercalli to express the intensity of the effects of the earthquake.

The lower degrees of the MM scale generally deal with the manner in which the earthquake is felt by people. The higher numbers of the scale are based on observed structural damage. Note the scale is from I to XII i.e. in integers expressed as Roman numerals:

I Instrumental. Not felt by many people unless in favourable conditions.

II Feeble. Felt only by a few people at best, especially on the upper floors of buildings. Delicately suspended objects may swing.

III Slight. Felt quite noticeably by people indoors, especially on the upper floors of buildings. Many do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing motor cars may rock slightly. Vibration similar to the passing of a truck. Duration estimated.

Through to:

X Disastrous. Some well built wooden structures destroyed; most masonry and frame structures destroyed with foundation. Rails bent.

XI Very Disastrous. Few, if any masonry structures remain standing. Bridges destroyed. Rails bent greatly.

XII Catastrophic. Total damage - Everything is destroyed. Total destruction. Lines of sight and level distorted. Objects thrown into the air. The ground moves in waves or ripples. Large amounts of rock move position.

Moment Scale is a measure of the energy released and in principle is unlimited in magnitude: the Great Valdivia Earthquake in Chile was rated as 9.5 moment. The energy difference between each unit on the scale is a factor of 31.6. Thus, going from 6.8 to 8.8 is 1000 times more energy.

The MM scale is limited to XII, "Catastrophic" i.e. Total Damage

Seven earthquakes have taken 200,000 or more lives. Haiti in January 2010 is at #4 with the loss of 230,000 and counting.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 27, 2010 11:01 AM

Thanks for the mullets! I had no idea that had a name. :-) I know an autotheistic professor with a skullet. He failed me twice in Introduction to Ecology*. The first time I hadn't learnt enough, OK, fine. The second I had learnt enough, but just couldn't write fast enough to answer enough questions in the limited time! He summoned me to his office and told me bullshit about things like "nature optimizes for performance/output". Fortunately another professor gave that course the next semester; that exam was arguably even too easy, and I got the best mark. Had I failed that third time, a likely outcome under the previous professor, I'd have had to repeat the exam orally in front of a commission**; and if I'd failed that, that would have been the end of my biology studies.

* Would probably be called "Ecology 101" in the USA. I have little idea of that system.
** This happened to me in an immunology course. Molecular biology is having a load of knowledge dumped on you; if you can eat it all up, good...

I went to bed at 2.30 am, intending to get up and work no later than 8.30 am

Ehem... there are people who only need 6 hours of sleep per night, but there aren't many of them. I don't think you're one.

If you get up before having slept enough, you'll simply be tired and unproductive the whole day long.

There is no U in Qivering

:-D

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 27, 2010 11:06 AM

Molecular biology is having a load of knowledge dumped on you; if you can eat it all up, good...

Better: Studying molecular biology is to have a load of knowledge dumped on you; if you can eat it all up, good... <burp>

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 27, 2010 11:24 AM

A publically-funded college uses its resources to recruit mormon students.

A letter written by Northwest College President Paul Prestwich and mailed to 1,002 Mormon students earlier this month was intended to generate interest in the college. The letter has indeed accomplished just that — but likely not the kind of interest Prestwich originally had in mind.
     Within weeks of their postmark date, the recruitment letters have caught the attention of a national publication, local media, the American Civil Liberties Union’s Wyoming office and the Northwest College campus community.
     In a letter posted on college letterhead and mailed by NWC, Prestwich identifies himself as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and highlights the “remarkable opportunities for LDS students” at Northwest College.
The envelope also included a letter on church letterhead from Fred Hopkin, president of the Cody Wyoming Stake, describing the student ward’s offerings.
     For some, the recruitment letter raises serious concerns about the ethics of a publicly funded college’s recruitment of students on the basis of faith.... — public institutions should not be in the business of marketing themselves on the basis of religious affiliation....Article 7 Section 12 mandates that secretarian tenets and doctrines will “not be taught or favored in any public school or institution” established by the Constitution.
     ...Neither Patrick nor Nassirian sees a problem with Prestwich identifying himself as an LDS church member, but rather, the way he disclosed his beliefs.... the issue is that the president of a public college is selectively targeting students of faith for recruitment...
     The 1,002 students who received the letter are Wyoming high schoolers enrolled in an LDS program already, and the college was simply giving them information about opportunities they may be interested in at NWC and Powell, Prestwich said.
“Students are more likely to succeed in an academic sense if they can be included in organizations within the college and external groups in the community,” Prestwich said.
     The LDS church has supplied the college with a list of potential students in the past. “We would send out general packets, and they (ward leaders) would follow up with letters,” Hammond said. Hammond said the college also plans to work with Campus Ventures, a Christian campus ministry, and the Newman Center to mail out letters to other religious students.
     Prestwich added that the college has worked with a variety of international student agents, including one who works with LDS students from Asia. The students want to attend a school that serves Mormon students with a student ward, or congregation, and the agent typically helps them attend colleges in Utah...

Posted by: JeffreyD | February 27, 2010 11:37 AM

Knockgoats at #552.

Heading back to the UK within a week or so. Barring unforeseen difficulties late March should work. The run down to London is easy for me. I finally remembered I had your email, so will let you know when I return. I will not be checking this place as much for a while so email best anyway. I am probably staying until June so we have some time. First drink on me.

Ciao, Jeffrey

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 27, 2010 11:56 AM

boygenius @508: I like the understated humor of the journalist who wrote the first article for which you provided a link:

While declaring itself UN-free appears to have had little impact on Grant County's everyday affairs...

Gotta give kudos to the guys who managed to kick the Nazis out of northern Idaho in 2000. Those men are still giving the Nazis fits by traveling to places like John Day, OR in order to give the locals the full skinny on Paul Mullet's proposed "compound".

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 27, 2010 12:00 PM

Someone else (I think it was Nerd) said that Zetia was a dangerous chemical, active in ways that would require people working with it to suit up and have a protected air supply.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 27, 2010 12:16 PM

And certain Assistant Professors have some explaining regarding their time management to do !!

yeah, ya think?

(story of my life)

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 27, 2010 12:20 PM

o.

gtfO; stfU...got it.

Posted by: Alan B | February 27, 2010 12:42 PM

#563

Hi Matt

I am old enough to remember The Brain's Trust on BBC steam radio. There was a speaker, the late Professor C M Joad, who always seemed to begin his replies with, "It all depends what you mean by ..."

I can say the same thing. It all depends what you mean by "good" and "popular". Anything I can come up with is going to be immediately contradicted by others (and quite rightly ...). Richard Fortey has written other books including an excellent one on Trillobites. However, I would suggest:

1 Earth Story from the BBC - not a book but a DVD set.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Earth-Story-DVD/dp/B000FS9SGE

The presenter is Professor Aubrey Manning. A biologist IIRC who looks in from the outside to understand the forces that formed the Earth and made it the environment suitable for "his" living organisms. His style is quiet, reflective, and wanting to be taught by some of the world's experts. Very English and totally different from Ian Stewart.

It is also available at:

http://www.torrentreactor.net/torrents/1658151/BBC-Earth-Story-Documentary-XviD

I haven't tried it and I have no idea of the legality (copyright etc.) of this.

There is also a book that goes with the series (there always is with the BBC!):
Earth Story (the forces that shaped our planet) by Simon Lamb and David Singlton.
ISBN 0-563-48707-0
My copy is the paperback version, just under A4 size and £12.99 when I bought it.

The DVDs are far better (IMHO)

I don't know where you .live but if it's the UK then:

2 The Geology of Britain - an introduction
by Peter Toghill
My copy is the paperback version, A4 size, £16.99 when I bought it
ISBN 1-84037-404-7
Peter Toghill is an enthusiastic retired geology lecturer and probably the expert on the geology of the Welsh Marches and Shropshire so the book is weighted in that direction.

3. Teach Yourself Geology
by David Rothery

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourself-Geology-McGraw-Hill/dp/0071439722

I should declare a (non-financial) interest. David is a lecturer (I would guess he might be a "Professor" in US style) at the Open University in the UK. He has written or co-written some of the OU Earth Sciences material. This book is a sound introduction to Geology as a subject to study rather than as a picture book. David has also produced a Teach Yourself book on Volcanoes, Earthquakes and Tsunamis

www.amazon.co.uk/Yourself-Volcanoes-Earthquakes-Tsunamis-General/dp/034094241X

and on the Planets (planetary geology if you like):

www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourself-Planets-Science/dp/0340867604

4. Openlearn Another non-book - instead on the internet

www.open.ac.uk/openlearn/get-started/get-started-learner.php

This is an explanation of a collection of segments from Open University modules, some of which are science but it covers the whole range. The material is free and is obviously there to encourage an interest in the Open University. Try browsing the Science and Nature index at:

openlearn.open.ac.uk/course/category.php?id=10&perpage=15&page=1

(Obviously, copy and paste the partial URLs and add the "http etc." in front.)

There are far too many segments to list but the material is split into about 10 hour (variable, 5-30 hours at a quick look) study segments including earthquakes, plate tectonics, life in the Palaeozoic, introduction to evolution (very basic), Darwin, Mountain Building in Scotland and many others.

Hope you find something of interest. Let us know what you think when you've got hold of any of them.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 27, 2010 1:09 PM

Waiting for the Chain of Command videos to load... YouTube is being slow again.

“Students are more likely to succeed in an academic sense if they can be included in organizations within the college and external groups in the community,” Prestwich said.

Except if they're not into peer pressure.

<Alan Clarke> 1) Plate Tectonic Theory predicts that volcanoes should be on a specific side of the subduction zone, though I don't particularly care which side it is; 2) Walt Brown says most volcanoes are on the opposite side and that must be true because it helps my argument; 3) Therefore, Plate Tectonic Theory is wrong and I win. Also, Goddidit.</Alan Clarke>

Bingo.

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawncr0FDc8gdl7yJBz0SJ15D0etcTIOtL0s | February 27, 2010 1:27 PM

Lynna OM: I channelled the Mormon joke from Utah Phillips, who said he named himself after the only state he ever got deported from.

Here. I needed a dose this morning. My longtime old friend genius hardheaded irish allergist died this week; she wasn't all that much older than I am.

And my favorite venue (pays in the high two figures, like Victor Navasky) is giving up its print edition, which means I lose a good chunk of my local audience.

Damn I hate mortality.

Ron Sullivan
http://toad.faultline.org

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 27, 2010 1:30 PM

Rev BDC @472, I used to have an heirloom, a copy of the Rolling Stone issue that contained part of Hunter's "Fear and Loathing" in Las Vegas. Somebody stole it.

Hunter S. Thompson changed my mind about writing "non-fiction", which I have to put in quotes here considering the substances Hunter imbibed while on a reporting gig. Before reading Hunter, I thought of non-fiction as restricting my creativity. I was wrong. His take on political conventions makes me long for someone to tell it like it is. Put Hunter in the middle of the Teabaggers, I say, and let 'er rip. (I would accept that as proof of god's existence.)

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 27, 2010 1:43 PM

...that I've been supposed to make for months. <facepalm> Autistic hesitation to set the next step can be pretty annoying.

The first video is finished. Maybe boredom will drive me to write to my thesis committee* to arrange the next and last meeting which has to take place in March...

* Not the jury who will give the marks. It's another body that is supposed to follow my thesis and prevent me from embarking on projects that aren't feasible within 3 years.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 27, 2010 1:47 PM

Ooh, AlanB--thanks for those, but don't blame me if Mr Aquaria gets mad at you for encouraging my "rock fetish," as he calls it.

Posted by: Paul W., OM | February 27, 2010 1:53 PM

SC@557

Yeah, kinda sad. Greg and Stephanie don't seem to think that it's important to figure out what actually happened, and what people are actually complaining about, before deciding that the problem is that they're just whiny titty babies and giving them advice about how to suck up more.

I also find it funny that somebody complained that Josh was acting like a tinpot dictator---which is quite a good analogy, so long as you realize that the stakes are much lower than in real life---but Stephanie took that person to task for using such an over-the-top, loaded analogy.

Apparently it's heinously unfair to compare a person who runs a web site autocratically to a dictator, but it's just fine for Greg to compare mere commenters on such a website to a genocidal firing squad.

Posted by: Alan B | February 27, 2010 1:58 PM

#575 Matt Penfold

Yes, there were two series: "Talking Landscapes" and "Landscape Mysteries", 6 programmes in each series IIRC. Made in collaboration with the Open University where Prof Manning had an Honourary Degree. Excellent mix of geology, archaeology and natural history. I had a chance of meeting and talking to the Prof. when he came to a range of hills near where I live. Amongst many other activities he was the President of our local voluntary organisation looking at geoconservation.

He is a warm, gentle man in the true English sense, hugely knowledgable, willing to share that knowledge and willing to listen to pick up more. Bet he was a superb lecturer - I could imagine his students hanging on every word. If not, they deserved to be chucked out so others would be able to learn from him.

Enjoy whatever you decide to go for!

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 27, 2010 2:14 PM

Laden on editing:

Then read it over and tweak it.
Then red it over and tweak it again.

needless to say, [sic]

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmHzDpTLP2mp-qpt639sa9q2J8Wl4QREfQ | February 27, 2010 2:18 PM

Dust @549

You mean your brother is a Vogon!

Try Pangalactic gargle blasters next time he recites poetry