Pharyngula

Posted by: physicalist1 | February 22, 2010 1:18 PM

Hmm. Should I feel insulted?

Posted by: Owlmirror | February 22, 2010 1:19 PM

*shakes tentacle at the guy who makes a living from being a ham*

Posted by: Dania | February 22, 2010 1:25 PM

[Ah, so that's why this comment I tried to post on the last subThread didn't went through...]

That was one reason (the other was Real flash video downloader also broke) that I converted back 3.5. With Dania's link, time to test it out again.

I converted back to 3.5 because of that too, but then I decided to investigate further and found this. I have no idea why the Mozilla Add-ons' page was not updated. It should be.

Marmelade! Uh, oh. My addiction to oranges has been triggered.

Believe it or not, I've only recently discovered that, in English, "marmalade" refers to a fruit preserve made from orange and not from quince (that would be quince cheese). It looks like Wikipedia knows where this confusion comes from:

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "marmalade" appeared in English language in 1480, borrowed from French marmelade which, in turn, came from the Portuguese marmelada. [...] In Portuguese, according to the root of the word, which is marmelo, "quince", marmelada is a preserve made from quinces, quince cheese.

Well, I didn't know that.

Posted by: toomanytribbles | February 22, 2010 1:28 PM

snicker.

Posted by: Roger | February 22, 2010 1:29 PM

I wish I could cook. I've tried, and I swear, everything has come out like some form of culinary abortion.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 22, 2010 1:35 PM

Badgersdaughter - If you happen to have a good recipe for chicken paprikash, I'd be glad to have it. Exact measurements not required - I know how to estimate.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 22, 2010 1:39 PM

"π razy oko"

π mal Daumen in Vienna.

BTW, you seem to be in a surprisingly good mood for having only slept 7 hours after having stayed up so long. (Either that, or I fail math forever.)

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 22, 2010 1:41 PM

Josh OSG, I promise when I get home, I'll send you two "official" recipes, and the way my dad used to make it, for comparison. It should go without saying, but so often is not, that you should use fresh paprika from Hungary and organic chicken that actually tastes like chicken. (Every time I accompanied him to the grocery store, Dad would go off on "dead green American produce", "stale red sand from Spain", and "chickens that taste like they were raised underwater".)

Posted by: Judy L. | February 22, 2010 1:41 PM

Always nice to see and hear Phil Hartman. :)

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 22, 2010 1:50 PM

Jadehawk, OM @ 5:

none of the stuff I learned from my mom comes with measurements.

Same here. Neither of my great-grandmothers measured nor did my grandmother. Measuring stuff out feels wrong, that's probably why I rarely bake.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 22, 2010 1:57 PM

At this point I should probably mention that I don't measure what little I can cook. Except that, for 2 portions of rice, I need 1 mug of rice and 2 mugs of water, and making cube soup requires a few eyeballed mm of water above the standing cube.

+ 1

Posted by: Draken | February 22, 2010 2:00 PM

This thread fills up at an exponential rate. Without threadiation therapy or topistatica, it will finally ooze out of /pharyngula and spill over in the rest of scienceblogs, and go on in a hungry quest for the whole blogosphere.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 22, 2010 2:06 PM

I envy the people who can wear clothes long enough until they become vintage. I somehow manage to stain them beyond all acceptable wearage within a year or so - the more I like the clothes, the sooner they become unwearable. :(

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 22, 2010 2:08 PM

I've yet to meet a person who's actually happy with the crap from Walmart...

Well, I have some things that I like that are from Walmart and that were extremely good values. A 4-inch memory foam mattress topper for my spare bed, an assortment of mugs for coffee and tea, a french press for coffee, frozen shrimp, T-shirts to make crafty messes on, a replacement showerhead.

But I have other things I'm not so crazy about. I once bought a sheet set from another store and then saw the same set at Wal-mart, so I bought it there intending to return the first set. When I got them side-by-side, it was very obvious that the Wal-mart set was MUCH crappier than the non-Wal-mart set. Packaged the same way, everything, except that down in very tiny print in the corner of the back label of the Wal-mart set was "Made for Wal-Mart."

Yes, it is 100% true that many manufacturers make a cheaper version of their products so Wal-mart can foist it off on the unsuspecting as the full-quality version.

Posted by: Roger | February 22, 2010 2:16 PM

My measure of how badly it was starting to fall apart: I never did get 'round to watching the last several episodes.

What I do is watch "Revelations" right up to the point where they fade to black, and then selectively skip around the actual finale, ignoring the dumbshit that I find stupid. I pretend that most of season 4.5 simply didn't happen.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 22, 2010 2:28 PM

Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House; Ronald Reagan tore them back down. How different history could have been *sigh*

Don't remind me. <facepalm>

Really, Fearless Flightsuit wasn't needed at all. It was already known what a seriously stupid president behaves like. <shakes fist at FSM>

you know, there's a difference between dignity and honor. Us Neurotypicals don't work well without the former. It makes us miserable to be treated like scum, you know...

Sure, but, in an age when there's simply not enough work for everyone, it no longer makes sense to be ashamed of being unemployed. That's what I mean.

I don't think it is hopeless. I do think humans as a species are too stupid to work it out, though.

Sort of the opposite of the German proverb "the situation is hopeless but not serious".

China (which one could argue is quasi-capitalist) requires an 8.5% growth rate just to maintain its current unemployment rate.

And before they introduced that largely capitalist economy, they had the Great Leap Forward Off The Cliff, and tens of millions of people starved. That's even worse than needing 8.5 % growth per year.

Posted by: windy | February 22, 2010 2:34 PM

Hehehe, PZ channeling Shatner:

"You've turned an enjoyable little blog, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!"

Posted by: Owlmirror | February 22, 2010 2:37 PM

[I am cross-posting this with the TetZoo, both because it's interesting, and because there may be some problem with commenting there; I'm not sure.]

The first comment on the other thread that went missing was from someone from Sweden, which included a link to an image of a babirusa skull at the Gothenburg Museum of Natural History (Göteborgs Naturhistoriska Museum, GNM), which did actually have an upper tusk growing into the cranium.

Wondering if it was for real, I poked around the museum website, and found that they have a large collection (100+) of babirusa skulls. I also found that the Swedish for "babirusa" is "Hjortsvin", which like the Indonesian means "deer-pig".

To see the skulls (and other babirusa material), go to:

This link for a museum photography archive search.

In the form section, fill in the entry called "Motiv" with "Hjortsvin".

And search (Sök).

While browsing through the photographs, I did find one old black-and-white one that did appear to show an upper tusk growing into the skull. It's not the same as the one that was posted, although I note that both individuals have one tusk snapped off short (the left in both cases), and the remaining tusk growing into the forehead, for whatever that is worth.

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmHzDpTLP2mp-qpt639sa9q2J8Wl4QREfQ | February 22, 2010 2:46 PM

Windy @34
TvTropes is a colossal waste of time, this thread is a long and interesting discourse on many subjects of COLOSSAL intellectual interest Long may it continue

Posted by: Paul W., OM | February 22, 2010 2:47 PM

I've been scratching my head wondering whether trying to make potatoes and tofu tasty counts as not getting a life, or perhaps, by Pharyngula standards, as getting a life. I just dunno.

(But at least Blake's here displaying his knowledge of Star Trek episode numbers, so I don't feel too bad.)

---

Paul's (possibly-sweet) potatoes with asafetida and cumin

(This is good with sweet potatoes, too, just different. And sweeter. You may need to go to an Indian grocery for asafetida powder, which is actually more gum arabic than asafetida. Straight asafetida in a block is stronger and I don't know the right dosage.)

Ingredients

1 lb red potatoes, sliced into 1/4" slices and cut into pieces 1 sq. inch or a bit smaller (maybe 1" the longer way).
6 to 8 oz. diced tomatoes (or half a 14 oz can)
3 or 4 cloves garlic, minced or pressed
1 tablespoon Paul's double-spiced niter kebbeh (Ethiopian spiced butter)
1/2 tablespoon red pepper sesame oil
3/4 tsp ground cumin
1/2 tsp cayenne pepper
1/2 tsp asafetida (a.k.a. asafoetida) powder
1/4 tsp salt
1 oz or so water

Directions

1. Heat niter kibbeh and red pepper sesame oil in a big skillet (until spitting when you drop droplets of water in)

2. Add asafetida and cumin, cook 20 seconds, stirring; don't burn. (The asafetida will smell like musky, fetid ass---they're not kidding about the "fetid" part---but that's okay. It will end up tasting good.)

3. Add a little water (about 1 oz.?), stir.

4. Add potatoes and garlic, stir.

5. Cover and cook a while (10 min?) over low heat, to steam potatoes.

6. Uncover and saute a while, cooking off water and sauteing potatoes over higher heat until about as tender as you like them (not falling apart) and browned a bit.

7. Add tomatoes and salt.

8. Cover and cook on low heat a while, stirring occasionally.

Serve as a side dish, maybe with a dollop of sour cream, or garnished with something.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 22, 2010 2:56 PM

Ah, Shatner vidz, is it????
bwahahahahahahahahaha

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7258896287489458266&hl=en#

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 22, 2010 3:00 PM

Basically, there has been no human economy that has dealt well with a lack of economic and/or population growth.

Japan has been dealing with it for about 15 years. The only way they've managed so far was thanks to an explosion of government debt, which they could sustain thanks to their large current account surpluses (they didn't require foreign financing). But this won't obviously work on a global scale. We've now seen the begining of the explosion of Government debt for most developped nations, and already now, the competition for financing is such that the weakest nations are already on the verge of bankruptcy (cf Greece and Dubaï). The growing risk of a cascading sovereign debt crisis is now on everyone's mind.
The US and other western nations also dealt with zero growth for two decades after 1929. With the consequences we know.

It ought to be possible to accelerate the savings.

I doubt it will be possible with the current model of unfettered finance-led capitalism. It will require a great deal of government intervention, regulation and planning. This will slow economic growth. Seeing what came out of Copenhaguen, I doubt we're taking that route. Countries are back in the race to achieve the fastest economic growth possible (for how long?).
Stimulating consumption from credit at all cost is back in the saddle like before the crisis. We have no other recipie.

I would also contend that advances in technology can produce economic growth without increasing resource consumption, and that while material goods are necessary, they are not the only measure of economic activity.

Maybe it's possible, but it hasn't been the case for the last few centuries. I think there is something fundamentally flawed with any socio-economic system that has at its basis property rights and an incessant drive towards competition.

Posted by: Owlmirror | February 22, 2010 3:02 PM

(A snap from the recent BBC Triffids remake, for any Izzard fans passing by:)

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 22, 2010 3:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lul-Y8vSr0I&feature=related

then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXuSWUXDnuo

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | February 22, 2010 3:10 PM

Eddie Izzard is in a Day of the Triffids remake? Cool! Want!

Posted by: windy | February 22, 2010 3:15 PM

@45: that's a classic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKbt3wRsZYw

Posted by: Alan B | February 22, 2010 3:16 PM

Share and Enjoy - Real Science

There is a science called Taphonomy. It studies the kind of thing where you say, "I can see that's important but I never knew there was a science about it". (I am, of course, excluding David M because paleontologists know a lot about it.)

Wiki gives a reasonable definition:

"Taphonomy is the study of decaying organisms over time and how they become fossilized (if they do)"

Martin Brazeau is a postdoctoral fellow at the Museum für Naturkunde (Museum of Natural History) Berlin, Germany. He has a blog called The Lancelet which is subtitled, "Stuff about palaeontology, systematics, general biology, and whatever I feel like ranting about when it comes to news, politics, pop culture, or whatever else."
(Looks like it's worth going back to occasionally)

He has recently put up an interesting summary of some recent work published in Nature (and hence behind a paywall):

http://lancelet.blogspot.com/2010/02/rotting-tree-of-life.html

He starts off by introducing Taphonomy:

Taphonomy is the branch of research that is interested in describing what happens to an organism between dying and ending up as a fossil (or even why it won't end up as a fossil). A lot can happen to an organism in that period of time, as the earth is a dynamic spheroid. The older a fossil, the more possible disturbances it can experience. Taphonomy can tell us a lot about the environment an organism was deposited in and it can provide important controls on the inferences we make about the environment we think a fossil organism once lived in. But taphonomy is also an important consideration in considering what an organism is. That is, the 'life' of a fossil after death, might have a profound impact on how we place that fossil in the tree of life.

He talks particularly about*:

Sansom, R.S., Gabbott, S.E., and Purnell. M.A.2010. Non-random decay of chordate characters causes bias in fossil interpretation. Nature 463:797-800

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7282/full/nature08745.html#B1 (Abstract)

What Sansom et al. did reminds me a bit of some of the recipes on The Thread. He let larval lamprey and lancelets rot in buckets of sea water and recorded the progress of the decay over the period of several months. (Recipe instrction: Take a bucket of well-rotted lamprey ...) As the animals decayed the amount of soft tissue left and able to be fossilised decreased (and the atmosphere in the laboratory changed, I presume).

Sansom et al. recorded the effect of decay on those types of characters that would be used to score an organism for a phylogenetic analysis. The blog post and the Nature paper gives details but the level of decay and removal of these characters would lead one to think that the taxon was signicantly more distantly related to the vertebrates, much like the early chordates we find in the Cambrian.

Not only do these results provide a caution against how we interpret soft-bodied Cambrian chordates, but it illustrates a framework for studying the phylogenetic effects of decay. As decay is studied across a wider phylogenetic scope, the more we can determine about the generality of these types of patterns. That will have a profound effect on how we study and interpret the exceptional cases of soft-tissue preservation in fossils.

It is interesting that in previous incarnations of the thread [Geological] Josh had to introduce Alan Clarke and RogerS to the science of Taphonomy because they apparently had never considered the implications of preservation (or otherwise) of body features during fossilisation. Such studies bring fascination to real scientists. There seems to be little consideration of such observations in YEC thinking.

* He also includes another reference without discussing it in his comments:

Briggs, D.E.G. 2010. Palaeontology: Decay distorts ancestry. Nature 463:741-743

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v402/n6761/full/402518a0.html (Abstract)

Posted by: dNorrisM | February 22, 2010 3:20 PM

I've been thinking about triffid guns for weeks.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | February 22, 2010 3:28 PM

I dunno. Here's his IMDB page. I was never much into anime.

Never heard of him. And only of a few bits of his work.

'Tis, I still don't know what to do with that hot oil.

But the auberges where yummy nonetheless, if a bit dry - prolly due to the lack of oil. And I used too little tomatosauce, I think.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 3:33 PM

Never heard of him. And only of a few bits of his work.

What? That sumbitch told me he was famous and could make me a star if only I did what he asked me to, and then he...and then he...it was horrible.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 3:42 PM

(Yes, I'm bitter. I have the fucking right to be!)

I must protest, Captain. I am not a Merry Man!

Easy on the girdle cracks, Akira. Some of us have noticed our physiques becoming distinctly more Shatner-esqe as we age.

Posted by: MrFire | February 22, 2010 3:45 PM

Oh, do NOT get me started on that damnable season 4.5 of BSG.

I suppose nobody will stand with me and admit a fondness for (or even knowledge of) the latest season Heroes.

I like Dexter too, if that gives me back cool points.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 22, 2010 3:58 PM

I suppose nobody will stand with me and admit a fondness for (or even knowledge of) the latest season Heroes.

Not me. I don't know much about TV. That's one of the things I don't waste money on.

For my part, I suppose there are a few other lady commenters here (and also a few gentlemen) who will stand with me and admit a fondness for, and even a knowledge of, men with more brains than looks. Brains, you see, are their own type of "looks." Good-looking men with no brains are like chocolate made from shit.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 4:03 PM

Good-looking men with no brains are like chocolate made from shit.

I'll have one brain-filled hunk please!

Well an intellegent good looking man is still useless if he's douche/jerk.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 22, 2010 4:08 PM

Well an intellegent good looking man is still useless if he's douche/jerk.

Ahem, well, yes, um, that was the flaw in my latest model, and, um, I had to obsolete it, and, um, and I'm back to the drawing board again.

BRING ME MORE BRAAAAINS!!!

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 4:14 PM

BRING ME MORE BRAAAAINS!!!

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/static/dowbrigade/BRAINsand.jpg

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 4:33 PM

If I wanted fried brains, I would have stuck with the boyfriend before the last one, Pikachu. :)

But fresh good brains are usually still in their protective shell. So we'll need to settle for jello.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/tejons/brain.jp

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 4:39 PM

Wow. That's awesome, Free Lunch.

Posted by: NovaC | February 22, 2010 4:43 PM

#75
It may be recommended....but,will they do it?

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 22, 2010 4:48 PM

Don't apologize for feeling pain when you're hurt, Akira.

Posted by: Dania | February 22, 2010 4:51 PM

Perhaps if we could just encourage every woman in the world to actually talk to us before writing us off, Akira and I could take solace in that fact.

One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.

Posted by: llewelly | February 22, 2010 4:57 PM

so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more. I shall have to do some cleaning, methinks

Posted by: Akira MacKenzie | February 22, 2010 5:09 PM

On my first day arriving at a new school in Grade 7 I was christened the "fat kid from the shitty part of town..."

Heh, in the 4 years of hell others refer to as "high school," I was told that I that I couldn't get a $2 whore to fuck me even if I paid her $2 million. This observation was confirmed by the reaction most females gave me which ranged from cold indifference to utter disgust. I didn't date anyone until I was in my mid-twenties and the ONE relationship I had ended in tears... my own. Now I'm 35 and I'm looking forward to a life of sexless misery as my body continues to get fatter and uglier (well, more so than it was back then).

Here to hopin' that death comes soon.

Posted by: llewelly | February 22, 2010 5:12 PM

Akira MacKenzie | February 22, 2010 3:33 PM:

Been with a woman? Right, Bill, because women are all in unatheletic men with more brains than looks! At least when you're jerking off to fantasies involving Leather-clad Klingon women or Green Orion sex slaves, your hand doesn't say "Ewwwww, like, get away from me you nerd!"

One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 5:24 PM

Here to hopin' that death comes soon.

Don't be so pessimistic. Sexual attraction is only one part of a relationship. There is also emotional attraction.

If it's any consolation, at least you didn't spend high school trying to date girls in an attempt to make yourself straight.

Posted by: Roger | February 22, 2010 5:28 PM

If it's any consolation, at least you didn't spend high school trying to date girls in an attempt to make yourself straight.

That would be me. From h.s. (aka Hell) through college, I tried to date women in a vain attempt to convince myself I was not at all attracted to any number of guys on campus. 'Twas sad.

Posted by: davem | February 22, 2010 5:32 PM

The homeopathy report thingy had a spot om the BBC 10 o'clock news tonight. There was a (very short) interview with a woo-doctor as well for 'balance', but overall, it was pretty good.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 22, 2010 5:39 PM

this new energy company called Bloom Energy that is making news all day

It's not making any news.

And it can't. Where is the methane supposed to come from? Natural gas? That would defeat most of the entire purpose...

Posted by: davem | February 22, 2010 5:41 PM

The Bloom energy machine underwhelms me, unless I'm missing something. It needs a source of methane/hydrocarbons (where from?), and at 800,000 USD, isn't exactly cheap.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 22, 2010 5:42 PM

Roger @ 92:

That would be me. From h.s. (aka Hell) through college, I tried to date women in a vain attempt to convince myself I was not at all attracted to any number of guys on campus. 'Twas sad.

Hey, at least you didn't marry, father a buncha kids then come out of the closet 10 to 15 years later. Several of my friends did that, and it's a tailor-made mess. Most people have better sense these days, but it still happens.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 5:43 PM

There's always the intertubes.

One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.

Sure, and I agree (and let's be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway? I mean, I like to go dancing every once in a while but "Nice outfit!" "What?" "I said, 'NICE OUTFIT!'" "WHAT?!"-types of conversations aren't really my thing), but there's a world of difference between spending time online because you enjoy the company of the people you find there and like the medium of communication or the topics being discussed and feeling you have no choice but to interact online because you aren't considered attractive or are socially awkward in meatspace.

I'm being a little disingenuous here because the reality is that I am an incredibly social individual for whom there are only a few situations in which I would feel uncomfortable, but it's hard to pretend away the sting of having been marginalised because I liked science, or science fiction, or thought some of the ideas in that last math class were really interesting, or just couldn't give a flying fuck what Jari Kurri's record that year was, or whatever. I've also undertaken some pretty severe social experimentation to become so social: I once got a job as a busboy in a popular, 'hip' restaurant and made the commitment to act like a 'player' from the get go and hit on every single female working there as a way to rid myself of some shyness, and I've mentioned before that one of the reasons I incorporate a lot of profanity in my speech is I've learned that of a) "Hey, did you hear they discovered a new planet?" and b) "Hey, did you hear--OH MY FUCKING GOD DID YOU SEE THAT FUCKING CHECK WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT GODDAMN FUCKING REF?!--they discovered a new planet?", b) is more likely not to get you called an 'egghead' who 'must read the dictionary for fun.'

So, yeah, there are a lot more opportunities for socialising today for those less confident or less mainstream thanks to the internet and the growing acceptance of geeks or nerds, but most people would rather not be fat than be told "Hey, a small contingent of people like fatties."

Heh, in the 4 years of hell others refer to as "high school," I was told that I that I couldn't get a $2 whore to fuck me even if I paid her $2 million. This observation was confirmed by the reaction most females gave me which ranged from cold indifference to utter disgust. I didn't date anyone until I was in my mid-twenties and the ONE relationship I had ended in tears... my own. Now I'm 35 and I'm looking forward to a life of sexless misery as my body continues to get fatter and uglier (well, more so than it was back then).

*Jilted twice, by the same woman, in the same way, nearly a decade apart. Who says smart people learn?

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 22, 2010 5:53 PM

I sure as hell am not going to get over being a girl geek, even though I can do my makeup and hair, wear perfume, sing, flatter, cook, sew, and fuck as well as the best of them. If my future mate can't dig the fact that I think, and that I care passionately about what I think, and that I care passionately about everything else in my life, he's going to be in for a surprise.

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 22, 2010 5:59 PM

Well, for what it's worth, this sketch always seriously cracked me up.

It's the whole setup that leads to the rant, the whole way they put you in Shatner's head, in that situation...

I sympathize, y'know? I mean, not happening to be an actor in a cult show that engendered that kind of downright obsessive following, I can't know what that'd be like...

But damn, just imagine it. You're already having a bad day. Hair plugs givin' you a rash, toupee gets sucked off by a rogue Roomba, whatever... And then you walk into this place, and these people are asking you these bizarre questions like they actually care... Like maybe even you should...

And it hits you: you just don't. Not in the least. And why the fuck are you even standing there? Sure, you already pocketed the speaking fee, and the emcee is gonna be seriously pissed... But c'mon... What is this? Some kinda nasty, huge practical joke they're all playing on you? It strikes you, all of a sudden, as things sometimes do, the whole situation is slightly insane...

And these people even alarm you a little. It plays out so well... I love the text--it doesn't even read so much as nasty as just from the heart: look, get help, you guys, this can't be normal. I don't so much read the 'Have you ever kissed a girl?' bit as implying so much nastily he can't get one, either, as more there's something mebbe rather wrong that he's not even trying real hard... In the whole context, y'know, it's 'what the fuck are you people even doing here, anyway?'...

Granted, not being myself terribly affectionate about Star Trek, mebbe this helps... For the record, I do self-identify--mostly--as a geek. And my geek score tests are great, despite my not so much liking the Trek, and generally flunking out on those bits.

(/Anyway, just sayin': funny, dammit. And while I guess it doesn't surprise me some folk got a bit bent about it, c'mon... Still funny.)

Posted by: Dania | February 22, 2010 6:01 PM

...but it's hard to pretend away the sting of having been marginalised because I liked science, or science fiction, or thought some of the ideas in that last math class were really interesting...

Exactly. That's what happened to me in secondary school. And the only reason it didn't affect me much was that, as I said, I had friends who would agree that the some of the ideas in the last math/chemistry/biology/philosophy/whatever class were really interesting. They were also more confident than me, which helps a lot. They taught me that being "cool" and being a "nerd" do not need to be mutually exclusive.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | February 22, 2010 6:05 PM

SC, from the last thread:

Walton, is it possible for you in the meantime to volunteer with a nonprofit that helps these people?

Maybe. I'm thinking of volunteering at the Citizens' Advice Bureau over the summer (I have friends who already do this).

I think by learning about them and getting to know something about the history of their countries, you might be able to appreciate that they haven't only been oppressed by government, but by capitalism, and how these have worked together.

I don't have any difficulty appreciating that. No one but the most deluded believes that capitalism is some sort of magic force for good. If corporations can use the coercive power of government to entrench their own position, then they will - and they do. I thought you realised that I was aware of this, since I am an outspoken critic of, inter alia, farm subsidies and protectionist measures, which are promoted by Western agri-business for their own interests and which impoverish people in the developing world. No one thinks that corporations are angels; that's a strawman conception of libertarianism.

But I can't change any of these things. On the other hand, detained refugees are a different matter: my own national government is depriving them of their civil liberties, and that's something I feel morally bound to fight against using the means at my disposal. Unlike the global economy, it's something that is, to some extent, within the scope of my influence as a citizen, as a (future) lawyer and as an activist.

But the involvement of corporations turns them toward corporations' single end: profit. They are not interested in solutions for major problems unless these are profitable, they have no interest in workers' lives, they are only interested in effective demand, and they have no interest in sustainability.

As I understand it (though I'm not an expert in these matters), libertarian theory does not rest on the assumption that corporations are interested in anything other than profit. Libertarians accept that the primary purpose of a corporation is to deliver a profit to its investors, and that it will do whatever is in its power to maximise that profit. But because of the effect of the "invisible hand" of the market, this does - in theory, and sometimes in practice - lead to effects which maximise efficiency and productivity. Libertarian theory, as I understand it, rests on the (relatively well-founded) assumption that many human beings are motivated primarily by self-interest, and that they will be more efficient and productive if they derive direct financial reward from producing goods and services that they can sell to people.

Of course, its major downside - as I have acknowledged - is the ever-expanding consumption of resources, and consequent environmental cost. And I agree with you that this is a very serious threat, and something which the free market cannot possibly handle. But I don't think that's an argument for getting rid of capitalism altogether, merely for using government regulation to conserve environmental resources.

It's possible, of course, that this is an overly optimistic view on my part. Any government is to some extent influenced by dominant financial interests, and when those interests want to consume more resources in order to make more profit, it could be argued that government regulation will tend to serve the interests of the largest corporations rather than those of society or the environment. But I have hope that this can be tempered by a certain amount of activism, on the part of those of us who know and care, against iniquitous government policies (like Western farm subsidies and tariffs) which help the wealthy and hurt the poor. And I think there are ways in which government regulation, within a capitalist economic framework, can effectively conserve resources: look at the success of the system of transferable fishing quotas in Iceland, for example.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 6:21 PM

They don't know why they targeted you. They'll never know. It's, like, an ape thing.

My greatest shame is how I treated the kids 'below' me in the pecking order when I was at my most vulnerable in middle school. What was especially hurtful, I think, was that I'd naturally befriended a lot of the nerdy or unpopular or weird kids, but the moment the 'cool' kids started to pick on me all over again for my association with them I would turn on them mercilessly.

Thank the FSM I grew out of that terrible insecurity by high school, and I'm not going to beat myself up for not having the courage to stand up for others at that time in my life, but there are a few people I really owe apologies to.

One of the reasons I think I became a hunter-gatherer romanticist in uni was I was fascinated by groups of people who had social behaviours that appeared specifically designed to reduce hierarchies.

Insulting the meat, anyone?

I'm going to ignore the ongoing discussion about high school and relationships. It's a depressing subject for me, and I vent about my problems far too much anyway (I have a self-confessed tendency towards narcissism).

Fair enough.

Anyway, I'm actually in a really good mood right now, having had a very productive day. :-)

Congrats! Ride that wave!

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 22, 2010 6:27 PM

what purpose did you have in mind that using natural gas would defeat?

Getting away from net production of CO₂.

and let's be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway?

<barf>

I once got a job as a busboy in a popular, 'hip' restaurant and made the commitment to act like a 'player' from the get go and hit on every single female working there as a way to rid myself of some shyness

...Frankly, I think you'd be somewhat happier if you were a little less neurotypical still. My autistic willpower is so strong I'm completely incapable of making any such commitment, and yet the result, so far, appears to be the same...

You try to overcompensate, and it doesn't work. I can't overcompensate, or compensate at all.

(...Though it appears to be rather fortunate that I grew up with healthy amounts of profanity. My mother tried to get it back out of me for a few years, but had to give up.)

but most people would rather not be fat than be told "Hey, a small contingent of people like fatties."

Same again. I like being a nerd; I don't want to be cool, because it simply wouldn't make me happy. I will not suffer. I certainly won't make myself suffer.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 22, 2010 6:40 PM

I was bullied in high school for being small, introverted, non-athletic and intelligent. Several years ago I was visiting my parents in the town I grew up in. I ran into a guy who'd bullied me in high school. He literally put his arm around me and said "Do you remember all the great times we had together?" He couldn't remember that he'd bullied me. He was convinced we'd been bestest buddies in school.

Memory is a strange thing sometimes.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 6:45 PM

Nerds are always so safe and unthreatening, you know.

No, not really. Nerds, in my experience, can also be very vicious and hateful. Not that I've bullied by any, but it's my observation.

I was very fortunate not to have encounter much bullying during high school. Generally, I was part of the “popular” crowd. Elementary School was different. I was bullied, not so much for being a good student, but for being the only Asian student in my class.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 22, 2010 7:04 PM

PZ wrote:

I wasn't in the pecking order. I was so weird and negligible that they threw me out of the hierarchy. The good thing was that I didn't get bullied much at all, but the bad thing is that I still was never invited to the cool kids' parties or the cool kids' lunch table, even.

Me too - I was mostly a non-entity, which was good in some ways and bad in others; sure, I didn't get bullied, but nor was I ever invited to any of the typical teenage gatherings and missed out on that whole aspect of the high school experience.

Interestingly enough, I have a high school reunion later this year. I've decided to go, more as a 'confront your demons' kind of experience than anything else.

Posted by: CJO | February 22, 2010 7:16 PM

Jeez. What is this, a pity party? Damn nerds, showing feelings n' shit.

I keed, I keed.

I can second two points: one, I, too, recall to my shame that I joined in with the teasing and bullying of the untouchables the exact second I took the very tiniest step up the middle school caste system. I've been able to forgive myself on the basis that nobody is exactly looking out for anybody but number 1 at that age, and remembering the sheer terror that was engendered by the idea of accidentally being "found out" as an unreconstructed nerd or a compassionate human being by the "cool kids" who seemed to be tolerating me for once. By high school I had discovered an identity and realized the "cool kids" actually sucked, and that I and my friends were going to go on and have interesting, fulfilled adult lives, and those losers had just peaked.

Also, to 'Tis's point, it is positively eerie the extent to which losers who peaked in high school can delude themselves into thinking they were perceived as anything other than obnoxious, arrogant assholes by 90 percent of their peers.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 22, 2010 7:30 PM

We need episode numbers.

I wasn't bothered much in Jr. High or High School. A couple of big bullies tried picking on me in Jr. High, but after I fought back, it appeared the word got out. In High School, I was considered a brain, but since I lived a long ways from the High School, I had to make sure to catch the bus home, so I wasn't around after school unless it was a band activity. By then, a certain Redhead was catching my eye too.

Posted by: geoffmovies | February 22, 2010 7:36 PM

A little heart breaking to see Phil Hartman, but this sketch was a standout in an otherwise disappointing season. Thanks for posting it, it's great to see again. So true too!

I was in college when this aired. I may not have had a life, but I had more hair.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 22, 2010 7:43 PM

Episode subThread numbers are easy. This would be number...uh...30!

I'll number 'em in the next update.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 22, 2010 7:53 PM

Why am I totally unsurprised to learn many of us were unpopular or bullied?

I don't know about you all, but looking back on how I felt in high school, I couldn't have imagined how much better being an adult would be. Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?

Now, if I could just hold it here. . . maybe more time in the regeneration chamber would help. . .

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 22, 2010 7:54 PM

*sends Brownian a tankard of e-grog :)*

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 22, 2010 8:06 PM

'Tis, I still don't know what to do with that hot oil.

Ignore it. I was looking at two recipes and got part of the wrong recipe in the recipe I posted.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 22, 2010 8:08 PM

I'm not going to spank you.

Where is Patricia when you need her?

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 8:11 PM

Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?

Yes and no. On the plus side, I've had a lot more fun over the last five years (I'm 34 now) than I ever did other than a few select time periods from my mid-teens.

On the minus side, I'm getting creakier, doughier, and hairier, and the playboy lifestyle of jetting off to the Côte d'Azur for a month of interviews and photoshoots with my supermodel/research director at CERN wife seems an increasingly far-fetched dream.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 22, 2010 8:14 PM

I've been wondering the same thing, Josh. I do worry about some of the people, like Geologist Josh and Patricia, who've disappeared.

Any spanking of Gyeong will be left in your capable hands.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 22, 2010 8:28 PM

Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?

Yes and no. I'm a lot more comfortable with who I am now I'm in my 30s, but that's come as a result of some harsh realisations about how well (or, more accurately, poorly) I relate to people.

My belief is that being in my mid-30s while still having some of the attitude of a lackadaisical 23-year-old (i.e. posessing little-to-no interest in advancing in my career, or having kids or renovating and instead being obsessed with the intricacies of popular culture) at that age is considered a bad thing by most of my contemporaries.

As a result I really only venture into meatspace if where I'm going either doesn't involve having to interact with people or it is interaction around a purpose, i.e. work or theatre or a film or a gig; in short, I can't do things like hang out in a bar or at a party. I almost always get way too anxious and shut down completely.

Hence why I spend so much of my damn time here...

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | February 22, 2010 8:32 PM

I preferred being in my 30s than my 20s. I was out of school, particularly grad school, I was gainfully employed doing something I enjoyed doing, and I got laid a great deal more often.

Posted by: Roger | February 22, 2010 8:38 PM

Hey, at least you didn't marry, father a buncha kids then come out of the closet 10 to 15 years later. Several of my friends did that, and it's a tailor-made mess. Most people have better sense these days, but it still happens.

Apparently, that's the modus operandi here in South Carolina. If I had a dollar for every guy I've seen online and in bars who was married and came out in their late 30s...well, I'd probably have a lot of dollars.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 22, 2010 8:44 PM

Menyambal, baraca means "blessings" in Swahili, but given that the language contains a huge number of Arabic loanwords it's likely related to the Semitic words as well.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 22, 2010 8:48 PM

Thirties for me are definitely better than twenties and teens, if a lot more stressful in different ways. I'm much, much, MUCH more comfortable with myself, with who I am, and my place in the world (thanks, therapy!). Then again, the worries associated with needing money to support other people can be painful. But in general, yeah. I've always looked forward to getting older, and so far I like it a lot. But then again, get back to me in a few years when I hit 40...

Posted by: MrFire | February 22, 2010 9:13 PM

Elementary School was different. I was bullied, not so much for being a good student, but for being the only Asian student in my class.

Yep. Different country, different time, same shitty-assed bullies got us both.

I hate to break it to you, but I've spanked my pikachu twice already tod--oh, I see what you were referring to.

At the age of 34, this should a level of stamina to be proud of, mate.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 22, 2010 9:31 PM

Mr. Fire, this is the endless thread, not the endless fap.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 9:35 PM

Yep. Different country, different time, same shitty-assed bullies got us both.

sniff sniff. Someone else knows what it feels like. Er. . .I thought you were USAian, MrFire?

And I told you already - Pikachu will not be spanked.

Fine then, there are other people who appriciate BDSM. Where's Bill?

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 22, 2010 9:53 PM

I'm fucking glad I didn't go to y'all's high-schools. mine consisted almost entirely of
1)people who majored* in Ancient Green and Latin
2)People who majored in music
3)People who majored in math and physics

being teased for being a nerd wasn't gonna happen, since we were all nerds and geeks. probably happened for other reasons (I was too busy dealing with my own problems to notice), but not for having brains.

-----

*after 10th grade you pick 2 subjects that will be your main focus for the rest of high-school; these are probably also the subjects they ended up studying in college, but I wouldn't know that.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 22, 2010 10:03 PM

Fine then, there are other people who appriciate BDSM.

If you truly appreciated it, Pikachu, you would find my denying you a spankin' unbearably hawt.

Posted by: MrFire | February 22, 2010 10:07 PM

Er. . .I thought you were USAian, MrFire?

Nope. Born and raised in the UK. But I now live in US, and the transformation is almost complete. Like The Fly. When my brother calls though, the Nawf Laandan accent comes shining through and confounds my wife no end.

On the bullying front: mostly psychological. As in, calling me names (ever hear Ching Chong Chinaman Tried To Milk A Cow?), group exclusions, stealing my shit or damaging it. Teacher (Catholic School, natch) told me to stop exaggerating. Good times. I also got called 'Paki' a lot, despite not looking remotely like a person from the Indian subcontinent.

Mr. Fire, this is the endless thread, not the endless fap.

Who said anything about my faps being endless? 35 seconds on a good day, and if the wind is just right. Or 15 for a sweetcheeks like you.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 10:11 PM

If you truly appreciated it, Pikachu, you would find my denying you a spankin' unbearably hawt.

(debating on whether I should sex-up this thread furthr.)

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 22, 2010 10:15 PM

35 seconds on a good day, and if the wind is just right. Or 15 for a sweetcheeks like you.

HA! Touche (how the fuck do you make diacriticals here?).

When my brother calls though, the Nawf Laandan accent comes shining through and confounds my wife no end.

OK. I admit my prejudice. I hate parochial, regional accents. Despise them. I don't mean the broad understanding of an accent from another country, I mean the very specific, local, idiosyncratic pronunciations. I worked really hard to get rid of mine (upstate New York, US - it's awful). The very. . ."parochialness" of them, like they're from one small neighborhood or county, drives me nuts. Yes, linguists, I know. It's small-minded of me, and it's arbitrary. I know.

What is it with certain Brit accents where people can't seem to pronounce the "l" sound? Example: "We had a fire, and I ran from the bewwwding (building)."

Or, "Regionowww (regional) differences led to fighting amongst. . ."

Is there a name for that particular pronunciation?

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 22, 2010 10:17 PM

Jadehawk wrote:

ancient green? fucking hell. i meant ancient greek

Someone's got to make up for the RevBDC when he's not here.

Another of the problems of living in rural isolation was that there weren't many options of what to study at school - it was really down to straight maths/science, accounting & economics, shop classes and agricultural stuff.

I don't even think there was senior history and geography - not that I would have done them anyway, since it would have only been modern history and Australia is a really dull place in terms of modern history.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | February 22, 2010 10:29 PM

Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?

Hayell yes! Though I feel that no-one should have to wait until their 30s to (finally) get to grips with their extreme introversion and be able to, you know, talk to people, or be comfortable in their presence within 10', or in groups of more than about 4, or strangers of any stripe. My early to mid twenties were my nearly-suicidal years, which I wouldn't have back at any price, and as for my teens... See, high school girls didn't read anything but Harlequin Romances back in the '70s. Not in small-town Oklahoma, anyway. Scifi, astronomy, and archaeology were right out. Only four girls in my graduating class took anything more sciency than General Science, and it's not like we were a cohesive unit. What was this "peer group" thing of which I kept hearing rumors?

Aaaaand, I think that's about enough of that.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 22, 2010 10:45 PM

cicely wrote:

Though I feel that no-one should have to wait until their 30s to (finally) get to grips with their extreme introversion and be able to, you know, talk to people, or be comfortable in their presence within 10', or in groups of more than about 4, or strangers of any stripe.

As I noted upthread, it's actually the opposite for me; I've discovered I'm far less capable of coping with groups of people and am close to flat-out refusing to do anything in meatspace if it's likely to involve even moderate periods where I'm be forced to try and 'mingle'.

The GAC in a couple of weeks will actually be somewhat of a challenge; it's only because I've convinced myself the people there must have about a few key things in common (i.e. they are atheists and are interested in listening to people talk about atheism and hang out with other atheists of a similar mindset) with me that I'm not horrifically anxious about going.

I just hope I don't wig out and decide to try and put on a brash fake persona, i.e. become someone who wanders around hitting on women with lines like, 'hey baby - want to see my Order of the Molly?'

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy | February 22, 2010 10:49 PM

This thread is giving me some hope for the future, being close to taking the plunge into thirtyhood. I've started grad school, and I have something of a peer group now for the first time since undergrad. I haven't gone out all that often, but I'll be doing it more. The only concern I have is that most of the dating population around here are going to be nearly ten years younger than me.

(This is why ephebophilia makes no sense to me. I didn't even like teenagers when I was one.)

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 10:57 PM

want to see my Order of the Molly?

Yes.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 22, 2010 11:00 PM

Just finished ripping apart Frodo and Merry with a bunch of graduate students. We were like hyenas. I'm feeling young and spunky.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 22, 2010 11:01 PM

As I noted upthread, it's actually the opposite for me; I've discovered I'm far less capable of coping with groups of people and am close to flat-out refusing to do anything in meatspace if it's likely to involve even moderate periods where I'm be forced to try and 'mingle'.

-------

*pretty much the only two exceptions are doing something interesting which merely happens to involve a bunch of people, and meatspace meetings with online friends.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 22, 2010 11:08 PM

It's almost Threadmas Eve!!!!!

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 22, 2010 11:12 PM

Watch it, Pika-slut. Or I'll not spank you for a whole year:)

Me? Slut? What ever do you mean Josh dear?

To amend our discussion of high school, I got through by being a "jock". Not to say that there wasn't psychological torment. Along with my homosexual denialism, I had a lot of pressure from evangelical Christians to convert. (I wonder what they would say after seeing that they missionary attempts only drove me to agnosticism.)

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 22, 2010 11:26 PM

jadehawk wrote:

...and meatspace meetings with online friends.

Well, in terms of blogs/fora/etc. this is the only place I'm online with any regularity - so the GAC will be my first attempt to see if that works for me. But someone's recently set up a local online atheism group so I'll be checking them out (in person) when I'm not as crazy-busy as I am now.

However, I've had somewhat bad experiences in that people with whom I've gotten on well online (who I've met in person but communicated with mostly via email or - back in the day - snail mail) have had interesting (read: unpleasant) reactions to me after spending time with me in person* - which is what has led me to my current state of social phobia.

An example: one ex-friend of this ilk, when asked by a mutual friend whether or not she missed having me in her life, responded with 'I miss his emails'. While hearing this made me more than a little miserable as a person it did kind of make me feel good as a writer.

Still, I've had enough conversations with the likes of Kel and Rorschach to know that, worst case scenario, I'll have a few people to talk to.

Aquaria wrote:

I don't think he was a bad guy or an idiot, but I do think he was an emotional retard, at least in the sense of how to approach women.

Some of us still have that problem. Feel free to provide hints to aid us in overcoming it...

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 22, 2010 11:31 PM

Berlinski, Wells, Behe and Meyer don't go for any of that natural selection stuff, no sir! It's designers all the way down!

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 22, 2010 11:42 PM

Awww snap! Allied with idiots as they are, how shall we ever defeat Frodo and Merry?

Larry the Cable Guy liked What Darwin Got Wrong too!

Git 'er done!

Posted by: MrFire | February 22, 2010 11:45 PM

In high school, I got called a chink

In secondary school (Britspeak for Middle + Jr.High + High) I got no taunting whatsoever, and those were the best years of my youth. Moreover, I didn't even have to put anyone else down in the process. Primary (~ elementary) was where all the shit went down. Sadly, I offloaded some of that onto other kids even lower down than I was. I recall that Brownian mentioned doing something similar. Which leads me to...

Anybody remember the link to Brownian's set of flickr pictures? I once compared the last in that series to George Michael, but the one where he's wearing a cowboy hat looks like Freddy Rodriguez.

Is there a name for that particular pronunciation?

I believe it is called L-vocalization. A feature of the Estuary English dialect, amongst others.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 22, 2010 11:57 PM

Aquaria wrote:

I can't believe you, of all people are inept on the dating scene.

I think the confidence and attitude I exhibit here (which is what I'm assuming led you to hold the opinion you expressed) is something that - sadly - I appear unable to carry off in 'real life' for assorted reasons.

My main problem is meeting people who find me interesting and vice versa. It just doesn't seem to happen.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 23, 2010 12:04 AM

Antiochus, #195:

on account of my homosexuality. Although I wasn't actually gay, I developed a sense of gay pride that I maintain to this day.

One of these things is not like the other. Explain, please?

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 23, 2010 12:11 AM

Antiochus:

Cryptic, and unclear.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 23, 2010 12:18 AM

I'm not gay, but many people thought I was.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 23, 2010 12:21 AM

Jadehawk...that's the scoop. My point isn't that I regret this, but that it gave me a sense of solidarity with others who were also considered unacceptable...which I like.

Posted by: Owlmirror | February 23, 2010 12:29 AM

OH NO! Owlmirror has been RECRUITED!!

I cannot confirm or deny any rumors or speculations.

No further comment.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 23, 2010 12:39 AM

Other than when I went to a new school my senior year, I had a lot of fun in high school, with a great gang of nerdy/arty friends. I also had a foot in the popular kid camp, thanks to having dated a very popular guy my sophomore year. Inviting me to hang out became a habit for the popular kids, and I went along when it suited me.

I preferred my arty friends. Crazy, fun people, every single one of them.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 23, 2010 1:18 AM

Wow, I just finished reading the accumulated posts on the Thread since last night. Apparently it's confessions day on the Thread.

Like many others here, high school was not a good time for me. I was, how do you say it, physically underdeveloped which, when combined with a marked degree of nerdiness and social ineptitude, makes you the butt of everyone's humor.

The good news is that by the end of junior year I realized that if I pretended I didn't care about how other people treated (or what they thought of me) me a few of the other social outcasts would actually respect me. The hardest part of acting like these things were unimportant was learning not to cry in front of people. Sometimes a few repressed tears still escape, but I'm much better now.

Posted by: Phorce, God of Equine | February 23, 2010 1:44 AM

It's Darcy from Pride & Prejudice. There's a reason for it. Think about it. Really think about it.

independently wealthy and good looking?

Posted by: Aquaria | February 23, 2010 1:54 AM

#212

What a surprise. Someone who doesn't get it.

That's why I said to think about it. The reasons are more complex than that.

Posted by: Phorce, God of Equine | February 23, 2010 2:07 AM

214 -

Yeah, that's a guess. But I've never heard of women liking Darcy, so that's news to me. Can you give a hint? This isn't going to be one of those "women love to be dominated" arguments, is it?

Posted by: FossilFishy | February 23, 2010 2:42 AM

Aquaria: Think about what exactly? If you're really trying to give good advice then do so by explaining what you mean. What you see as desirable traits in a fictitious character can be, and probably is, different from what anyone else would see.

Also, to be so vague and then to get sarcastic when someone expresses the obvious stereotype is childish.

Mind you, this whole thing is probably moot except for entertainment purposes; I can't think of anything more subjective than sexual attraction.

Posted by: John Morales | February 23, 2010 3:14 AM

I think the way Frankosaurus is trying to fit in is kinda cute. Not just a troll.

Good comment, that one.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 23, 2010 3:19 AM

#214

You don't know me if you think I would allow a man to dominate me.

Elizabeth Bennett wasn't dominated, anyway. You don't understand the book at all, or haven't read it, if you can say such a thing.

Posted by: John Morales | February 23, 2010 3:28 AM

Kel, yeah, I saw that story.

I like the tenor of the comments on the ABC site, too.

Posted by: Aquaria | February 23, 2010 3:51 AM

Oh, and the other thing that makes Darcy so appealing to women that he didn't want the the hyper-feminine, submissive type of woman. He wanted a strong, intelligent, independent-minded woman.

Posted by: NovaC | February 23, 2010 4:03 AM

@AE #207
:) I never gave a rodent's posterior about what my contemporaries thought of me. Never mattered to me and the only person I had any control over was myself! I'm pleased to report I'm still happy and not plagued with angst to this day (I'm 38 and still "weird" by mainstream standards).
Aquaria,good to see another refugee from the "planet of East Texas". :)

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | February 23, 2010 4:11 AM

I like the tenor of the comments on the ABC site, too.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | February 23, 2010 4:14 AM

You did? This is news to me! Now I'm really confused.

Posted by: Dust.....spy | February 23, 2010 5:02 AM

Darcy=Colin Firth.

Enough said.

Posted by: Rorschach | February 23, 2010 5:41 AM

If Cath is referring to the recent Canberra "Skeptic's In The Pub", I wonder which Canberran she has mistaken for Wowbagger.

Oh ! That's kinda funny...:-) I'm glad we're going to have name tags at the GAC then hey, wouldn't want to be the talk of all the hot single atheist chicks at the convention, like" yeah that Rorschach guy, he can go all nite long talking about atheism and the future of humanity", only to be discovered to be a case of mistaken identity with some dude called Dunkin or Dawbin or something...

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 23, 2010 6:04 AM

I think there is something terribly sexy about guys who can talk all nite long about atheism and the future of humanity...

And NO, I'm not a hot atheist chick.

Posted by: FossilFishy | February 23, 2010 6:48 AM

Aquaria #225: Thanks for that.

I have a question about these romance novels though. I ran a book store for almost 20 years and we sold tonnes of romance novels including the Regency ones you mentioned. Being a curious sort I read one of the most popular at the time, the name escapes me, and I skimmed a half dozen more. Hardly a representative sample I know, but it was all I was willing to spend the time on. They all may indeed have had a Darcy character as the main protagonist, again, it was a while ago and I don't remember.

What I do remember is that they all had a plot that put the female protagonist in a situation where she was under situational or societal pressure to have sex. An arranged marriage, a kidnapping by rogues or some-such, never outright rape but always something where the woman was compelled in some way. Of course it all worked out for the best because the male turned out to be a fine sort and worthy of love.

All this left me feeling like the entire genre was based around the notion that women, or at least those in the genre's target market, felt guilty about sex. It seemed like much of the appeal of these books was the alleviation of that guilt. The female protagonist could be excused her desires after all because the compulsion in the plot had forced her into sex and I assume that that alleviated some of the guilt that the readers were feeling.

So, am I missing something here? Obviously my knowledge of the genre is limited and I'd dearly love to be wrong about this; it doesn't say anything good about our society. And how does this square with the very positive notion that the appeal of these books is the female reader's desire for a Darcy-like character?

Posted by: FossilFishy | February 23, 2010 7:40 AM

Carlie # 241. It isn't really a "duh" thing in so much as my sample size of this genre is all of 7 books. Have you read enough of these books to say that the majority conform to this plot scheme?

I can't agree that "our entire society is predicated on the structure..." because our society is more than just sexual relations. I will agree that we come from a society in which our entire set of rules about sexual relations were predicated on that structure and I'm hoping that we're moving towards a society where that isn't true.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | February 23, 2010 7:57 AM

Josh OSG #168
Sorry for late post - eating lunch at my desk

I once worked with a guy who's accent wasn't just regional, it was confined to a single street in a small town.
At age 10 his family, together with about 20 others, had transferred from a mining village in County Durham to Midsomer Norton (in the Somerset coalfield) because of the closure of the coal mine.
The combination of Geordie and Zummerset was ...strange.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 23, 2010 8:15 AM

Threadmas Eve!

Happy Monkey!

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 23, 2010 8:44 AM

For info, the Lomborg thread is now infested by Lomborg fans (3 of them currently online if I count well).

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 23, 2010 8:47 AM

badgersdaughter: Prepared for the snow?

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 23, 2010 9:06 AM

Hahaha, a hundred flakes will fall from the sky, stick for thirty seconds, and the city will freak out worse than a hurricane. I prepare for hurricanes.

I'm working from home today, logged into the work network. I don't have to be anywhere till tonight and I'm sure the danger will be past by then... and if not, meh.

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 23, 2010 9:17 AM

You don't imagine the heroine rips her own bodice, do you?

Well, I wasn't until just now...

(/Thanks.)

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 23, 2010 9:43 AM

Laughing hard at #253...

And re 'Prepared for the snow?', why, thank you for asking! Why, yes, we have snow! Lots of snow! The first fall that's added up to more 'n like about a centimeter or two in a long, long, long several weeks is falling right now! Finally! And any rumour that I just ran outside to roll around in it delightedly without stopping to think I was only wearing my bathrobe, much to the alarm and amusement of my neighbours, is a scurrilous and totally unwarranted exaggerations...

... Insofar as I was also wearing my socks.

In other news, I have found myself unable to participate meaningfully in the high school experience subthread 'cos honestly, my high school experience was... ummm... sorta weird. Hard to summarize, even.

I mean, there was some of that asshole terrorizing bullies creating occasional misery stuff, as something of a continuation of grade school, but only for the first year or so. We had a very streamed school, and the goons mostly disappeared into their own little shop class enclave after a while, and/or dropped out and/or drove into rock cuts at high speed while drunk and thus stopped being much of a problem. Leaving me in the company of the more academically inclined jocks as really the only potential source of trouble, and those were mostly pretty okay, actually... There was a certain give and take, sure, but we all had our moments...

And somewhere along the way I did this strange transition to geeky class clown/rabble rouser thing... And even developed a reasonably rewarding/varied, if again, rather odd, social life. Sure, I was in the general weird kid bucket, but people treated me pretty well. They were fairly small classes, too, I guess, especially toward graduation, and we mostly got along.

And that's about the best I can do for a capsule summary...

Well, there was all of that and some really hideous mullets...

And in retrospect, yes, I guess it did leave me with some scars. But mostly just when remembering the mullets.

(/And if anyone brings those up again, I'm so denying I ever copped to 'em. Did not happen. Nope. That's just crazy talk. Some evil troll who hacked the server wrote that into my comment. Or... Wait... Better: that Laden guy done it. Yeah... That's the ticket.)

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 23, 2010 10:04 AM

Yesterday, our Spokesgay was asking about Patricia. She is still around. She has her good days and her bad days, that is all I will disclose. When she has not been around for a while, well, you can guess. But she appreciates the well wishes and kind words from the people of this blog.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 23, 2010 10:11 AM

Dammit dammit dammit!!!! I missed a few Casual Fridays and Cognitive Daily went and closed. :(

Dammit!

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 23, 2010 10:18 AM

All of this talk of high school and spring training starting for baseball teams, including the dogdamned aging Cubs, brought to mind one of the greatest rants ever. It occurred back in 1983, when I was still in high school. I may be the Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse but cannot top this. And you can print it!

Posted by: Aquaria | February 23, 2010 10:28 AM

Don't misundreshtmate the differences between the Internet, where you're for instance not even supposed to look into people's eyes, and meatspace.

Yeah, I do know better. I remember when someone I knew IRL met some folks from a writers group online, and the most risque of the women online was actually a very buttoned down, quiet woman who could barely speak to anyone. She was so eloquent online, so outrageous, yet so shy in person.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 23, 2010 10:36 AM

Plenty of dinosaur bones found in a new site in southwestern France... in just 4 m². Yes, four square meters. Different dinosaur species, turtles, and crocodiles.

You should ask for his safeword first, before you try any extreme kinks.

No kinks involved. I'm seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 23, 2010 10:48 AM

This is the thread that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friend
Some people starting commenting not knowing what it was
And they'll continue commenting just because...

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 23, 2010 10:54 AM

what is the appeal (expecially the Xian romance novel*

I think the latter is fairly easy to explain. The life of a fundamentalist Christian teenage female
is one that is full of being told NO. No, you aren't allowed to have sex. No, you aren't allowed to make out. No, you aren't allowed to really have a boyfriend. No, you aren't allowed to watch R-rated movies. No, you most certainly shouldn't be thinking of such naughty things, ever. But oh, here is a novel where a heroine just like you finds out that all of this suffering and waiting is worthwhile, because it leads directly to true love forever and ever and she is golden in the eyes of God and her family and her husband and everyone wishes to be her and this can all be yours too if you just stick with the program! Also it has just a smidgen of that sex we won't let you do anything about, but in an approved way so you can get a tiny jolly that will reinforce your desire to live just like the heroine so you can hope to get more of that good feeling someday.

Posted by: windy | February 23, 2010 11:04 AM

Yes, four square meters. Different dinosaur species, turtles, and crocodiles.

Truly, the Flood worked in mysterious ways.

No kinks involved. I'm seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.

As long as we're sharing school memories, I'm not too fond of hard kicks to the stomach, either.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | February 23, 2010 11:44 AM

There's a slashfic topic now?! Damn, but I need to catch up.

In the meantime, since I gather he has a few fans here: New post in the Things I Won't Work With series!

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 23, 2010 11:55 AM

The life of a fundamentalist Christian teenage female is one that is full of being told NO.

Ahhh. This makes sense (thanks, too, Aquaria). I know many of the students in my universities athiest alliance experience a sense of relief after shucking off the constraints of religion.

Posted by: Menyambal: Making sambal (it isn't dragon magic). | February 23, 2010 12:00 PM

The writer who supposedly invented the Regency Romance is Georgette Heyer. She wrote books set in other times, too, but she got regencies started as good novels with complete characters living in an ineteresting world. She would be ashamed, I am sure, to see what the genre has degenerated into. She wrote well, and deserves more recognition than she gets these days. My family strongly recommends that you give her a try.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 23, 2010 12:04 PM

This is Rich.

How the fuck do people not see through this moron's idiocy?

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 23, 2010 12:14 PM

m/m slash has been around in the states a lot longer than yaoi has been imported - I *think* it started in the '70s with Kirk/Spock slash, but from the beginning it was m/m romance written primarily for and by women.

I'm no expert, but that's my understanding of slash fiction as well Becca, and the origin, named for KirkSlashSpock who were often the original protagonists.

Posted by: Becca the Over Socialized | February 23, 2010 12:59 PM

I've seen you in other forums where this topic comes up, promoting those sites and generally making a lot of laughable assertions about the romance industry. You don't disappoint.

I'm not sure what forums you're talking about - I mostly lurk, and rarely post about romance fiction. I know there's at least one other Becca who posts in many of the same places I lurk, and who has some opinions that I do not share - since I can't think of any other place I've recommended SBTB or Dear Author, maybe you're thinking of a different Becca?

yeah, I'll admit my reading tends toward shallow. I've got enough other stuff to deal with in my life that I have no problem admitting that I read mostly for escape. I *like* happy endings.

but I don't think I'm being a dupe of the Patriarchy to like books where people wind up happy. And very few of the books I read have young virgins as heroines (but then, I don't read Harlequins) - may I recommend Paladin of Souls, by Lois Bujold for a fascinating take on the Heroine's Journey (as distinct from the Hero's Journey in fancy dress) -- it deals with an older woman who is escaping from being over-protected, to find her own power and worth.

Yeah, there's a lot of drivel out there - in any genre - but there can also be a lot of good, thought-provoking writing that just happens to have a happy ending. It all depends on where you look for it.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 23, 2010 1:03 PM

Get ready for the Jane Austen Drinking Game!

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 23, 2010 1:35 PM

there are romance novels set among the Amish now, too...

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 23, 2010 2:20 PM

As an addition to the discussion about bodice rippers, and related to Sven's question about "magic-garment rippers": There was a discussion recently at Bitch Magazine about the oddity of the "Forever Your Girl" syndrome. The discussion includes some feminist and anti-feminist writing from the 1960s, plus a discussion of the sneakily mormon "Twilight" series. The worship of eternal youthfulness (read "childishness") in women, the odd combination of offering sex while denying it, the need for protection from a man -- all these issues come up. As far as I can tell, the ideal ripper of one's bodice is a vampire because he can rip your bodice with his teeth, grant you eternal youth (read "eternal innocence"), and can offer you more protection than mormon garmies.

But Andelin [Helen Andelin, author of "Fascinating Womanhood"] insists that a “fascinating woman” finds happiness precisely by assuming a secondary status and lacking an inner life. Being infantile, manic, pixie-ish, and dreamy is not just a cute way to act in movies; in Fascinating Womanhood, it’s posited as an important ingredient in attracting a mate, which is the most important element of female happiness.
      Nowhere is this idea more abundant in current pop culture than in the Twilight franchise. Bella Swan can’t properly be called manic, since mania is defined by wild mood swings and Bella is almost uniformly morose. But she has the pixie-dream-girl part down pat, what with her accident-prone fragility, her halting speech, her separateness from others, and her inability to participate in what most of the world knows as reality. And the extent to which the relationship between human Bella and vampire Edward depends on her childlike weakness—and his power to simultaneously threaten and protect her—is one of the more striking aspects of the series.
     Bella’s fragility and the protectiveness she arouses in him are things that Edward mentions often. He initially wants to feed on her; but, just as Andelin would predict, when he senses her vulnerability and admiration for him, his bloodlust is tamed, and he feels a burning desire to rescue her from would-be rapists, runaway vehicles, and vampires more vicious than himself. Meanwhile, Bella’s overriding desire to be with Edward is complicated by the fact that she is human—and therefore aging—while he is undead and ageless. Edward would rather she retain her humanity than her youth, but Bella is desperate to become a vampire before she turns 20, so she can spend eternity as an adolescent. New Moon, the second book in the series, begins with a nightmare in which Bella has grown old: She’s gray and wrinkled, while Edward is still a gloriously handsome 17-year-old. Despite the repeated assertion that Bella is mature beyond her years, she gauges her compatibility with Edward primarily on physical age, and is dismayed by each birthday—even spending life as an eternal 18-year-old is too old, because it’s one birthday older than Edward.
     When she finally does become a vampire shortly before turning 19, Bella is thrilled to realize that she will be childlike for all eternity, a teenage bride and mother cocooned in a tiny family circle for the rest of her existence. Sounds fascinating, right?

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | February 23, 2010 2:23 PM

Becca #284
'Yeah, there's a lot of drivel out there - in any genre'

Sturgeon's Law

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 23, 2010 2:34 PM

A contribution to the discussion of experiences during high school:

The girl that sat behind me in French class was not a good student, but she was useful for practical advice. She knew about tampons instead of pads. The day before we graduated, her boyfriend had caught her with an older man and had beaten the guy so badly that her bra, lying on the bed, collected blood in the cups.

I knew the girl behind me well, knew her used breasts and sex were still somehow innocent and ignorant. She was a babe in the Alaskan woods. She didn't harbor remorse as far as the beating went, only that she had to take special care to wash the blood out of her bra. I stored her right-away-cold-water-soak advice for blood stains. She was a teenage relationship virgin. Men might fight over her, but it was just one more thing on her way to growing up in the last frontier.

She was secretly pleased to have a boyfriend that beat the blood out of another guy. I knew he would have beaten any guy over any girl and might never remember if it had been over her.

I gave her paper or a pen, or both, from my book bag every day.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | February 23, 2010 3:07 PM

As far as I can tell, the ideal ripper of one's bodice is a vampire because he can rip your bodice with his teeth, grant you eternal youth (read "eternal innocence"), and can offer you more protection than mormon garmies.

And supernaturally great sex! Don't forget that! The (modern) werewolf appeals for many of the same reasons; and so, we have the Fang Porn (excuse me, I do mean "Supernatural Romance") genre. What ordinary, mortal, man can possibly compete?

Now I'm off to follow Sili's link at 274.

Posted by: windy | February 23, 2010 3:20 PM

the women agreed to a tee that what they liked about Darcy was that he was an intelligent, cultured, loyal and decent man, whose ultimate quality was the ability to accept valid criticism about himself, and then do what it takes to change himself for the better.

aaand he's kind of a dick.

The reviews to this "sequel" are hilarious btw, I'm almost tempted to read it:
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Darcy-Takes-Wife-Prejudice/dp/1402202733/

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 23, 2010 3:40 PM

If your nametag doesn't have Rorschach on it, then I'm going to be mightily confused.

Really? The shifting inkblot mask won't be enough?

Posted by: windy | February 23, 2010 4:10 PM

llewelly: the Angélique books had most of that AND thieves, harlots, alchemy, poison, chocolate and the Inquisition. Oh and instead of Regency England and a piddling sheik: the court of Louis XIV and the Sultan of Morocco. Top that!

Posted by: Dania | February 23, 2010 4:41 PM

it would be nice to be that person with brains, a personality, and looks that make perfect strangers undress you with their eyes. - Brownian, OM

I supervised* a (male) PhD student who fits that description. Just as well I'm strictly het.

I recently met a guy who, in my admittedly suspicious opinion, fits Brownian's description almost perfectly. Okay, so maybe he doesn't exactly make strangers undress him with their eyes, but he's good-looking and caught my eye immediately. He definitely has a personality and, well, I admire his brain. I found him, um, interesting. Oh, and he knows how to make me laugh, which is probably what most attracts me in a man.

So, I thought he was perfect. But I was wrong, as I discovered last week when we were happily chatting about books and I found out that he loves Dan Brown. I told him I had never read any of Dan Brown's books* and wasn't particularly interested either, but he promptly offered to lend me one. Oh well, if you ever see me praising Dan Brown's writing or something like that... just don't hit me to hard, okay? People are allowed to do very silly things when they're in love**, right?

*Brownian, Aquaria, Nerd: do you remember?

**Fuck. I guess I wasn't supposed to write that. For the record, I'm not admitting anything. Shut up! No, I'm not!

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 23, 2010 4:52 PM

No kinks involved. I'm seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.

I don't blame you, I do realize that I'm a bad driver at times. Would you like to hear my excuse?

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 23, 2010 4:58 PM

I recently met a guy who, in my admittedly suspicious opinion, fits Brownian's description almost perfectly. Okay, so maybe he doesn't exactly make strangers undress him with their eyes, but he's good-looking and caught my eye immediately. He definitely has a personality and, well, I admire his brain. I found him, um, interesting. Oh, and he knows how to make me laugh, which is probably what most attracts me in a man.

So, I thought he was perfect. But I was wrong, as I discovered last week when we were happily chatting about books and I found out that he loves Dan Brown.

I thought you were talking about me and was wondering when we'd met until you got to the Dan Brown bit. Clearly, I've been imperfectly cloned.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 23, 2010 5:16 PM

Top that!

Easily, and with first-class writing skill.

The Lymond Chronicles of Dorothy Dunnett.

What did I win?

Posted by: Dania | February 23, 2010 5:20 PM

but try to find out what he likes about DB.)

Oh, I certainly will try. It's a mystery to me why such an intelligent guy would like DB so much, but no one is perfect. Although some claim to be... ;)

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 23, 2010 5:30 PM

Damn it, I'm still waiting for Cath the Canberra Cook to come back and clarify whether she got the name wrong or there's someone out there pretending to be me.

I'm having visions (mostly from low-level sleep deprivation; I've seen 10 Fringe shows in 5 days) of myself flying to Canberra and lurking around atheist haunts, just waiting for this person to introduce himself to someone as Wowbagger, OM so I can leap out and yell 'impostor!' at him in an accusatory tone.

Then, if he tries to claim he is the real Wowbagger, I'll demand he prove it on the field of battle - that's right, I'll challenge him to...a snark-off!

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | February 23, 2010 5:32 PM

Language Log on Dan Brown:

Brown's writing is not just bad; it is staggeringly, clumsily, thoughtlessly, almost ingeniously bad.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 23, 2010 5:47 PM

Cheap-ass government clones never do have the same mitochondrial DNA. Causes all sorts of weird problems.

Betcha that's what Wowbagger's dealing with now (comment #314).

There are ways to tell, Wowbagger: Is there always two of you just a-hangin' around? Is every chromosome a hand-me-down?

Posted by: windy | February 23, 2010 5:58 PM

Betcha that's what Wowbagger's dealing with now (comment #314).

That, or a transporter malfunction.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 23, 2010 6:07 PM

Wowbagger, if you like psychological crime thrillers, try Elizabeth George with Inspector Lynnley and Sgt. Havers.

Happy Threadmas eve everybody. Happy Monkey.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 23, 2010 6:53 PM

Josh, OSG: You have mail and recipes. :D

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 23, 2010 7:08 PM

does moving thousands of miles count? first time was 5600miles (9000km); second time was 1000miles (1500km)

Sigh. Yes.

700 miles the first time. 1000 miles the second time. I would do it again, many times over, for the right guy.

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 23, 2010 7:38 PM

MAJeff and Ichthyic expressed interest in a torrent of Jesus of Montreal. So here are several.

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 23, 2010 7:59 PM

Congratulations to Dania :-) <duck & cover>

These books fill a very deep need for some women that isn't necessarily good for them, sort of like literary chocolate.

Eh, but, chocolate is good for you. Beyond merely making you happy, it contains flavonoids – red wine without the alcohol, if you know what I mean. And the theobromine is sufficiently poisonous to keep your mouth bacteria down. The dentists are amazed at my teeth, and I only brush them once a day because I can't fast long between meals...

No idea what effect it has on gut bacteria.

In the meantime, since I gather he has a few fans here: New post in the Things I Won't Work With series!

Dioxygen difluoride <drool> – "violently hideous" indeed!

"Well, 'often' is sort of a relative term. Most of the references to this stuff are clearly from groups who've just been thinking about it, not making it."

"And he's just getting warmed up, if that's the right phrase to use for something that detonates things at -180[ °]C"

I have to stop here to avoid quoting the whole post. It's so mind-blowing, I don't understand why anyone would need LSD for! :-D

Well, I can't resist quoting this bit:

"But I do note that if you run the structure through SciFinder, it comes out with a most unexpected icon that indicates a commercial supplier. That would be the Hangzhou Sage Chemical Company. They offer it in 100g, 500g, and 1 kilo amounts, which is interesting, because I don't think a kilo of dioxygen difluoride has ever existed. Someone should call them on this - ask for the free shipping, and if they object, tell them Amazon offers it on this item. Serves 'em right. Morons."

Hángzhōu, ancient city in China, known for its fine silk and its violently hideous... ROTFLMAO! X-D X-D X-D

BTW, when he says "ever", he means it.

And from the first comment...

"I would like to order a couple of kilos of FOOF from Hangzhou Sage Chemical just to see the crater on Google Maps."

but then, fate may well be waiting round the corner with a sock full of sand!

One word: chlorine trifluoride.

B-)

I don't blame you, I do realize that I'm a bad driver at times. Would you like to hear my excuse?

No. You should have stayed in that place and slept.

Language Log on Dan Brown:

From the links at the bottom...

Renowned author Dan Brown staggered through his formulaic opening sentence.

Becker's nevus

Wikipedia.

One of my literary-minded friends and I had lunch one day while I had a copy of it (despite my snarky attitude I won't criticise something unless I've actually read it) and we took turns passing it back and forth, opening it to random passages, reading them out loud in mock-serious voices - and laughing uproariously.

Reminds me of how The Eye of Argon is said to be traditionally read.

Posted by: boygenius | February 23, 2010 8:19 PM

I just stumbled upon a rather interesting graph mapping distribution of income by religious belief in the U.S.

If by "other" they mean non-believers, then we are remarkably average. Apparently, converting to Hinduism or Judaism may have some material benefit.

Posted by: llewelly | February 23, 2010 8:38 PM

There are ways to tell, Wowbagger: Is there always two of you just a-hangin' around? Is every chromosome a hand-me-down?

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 23, 2010 8:57 PM

Did you know that Bill's name was originally William Shatnerthewoods? You can learn this interesting (puerile) tidbit and more in the year 2000 (contents may not be suitable for adults).

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 23, 2010 9:17 PM

I can't imagine moving thousands of miles for someone. I can't imagine flying transnational once a month for someone. I know people do things like this when they are in love, and I suppose, I can't strictly rule out the possibility that I might. But I can't imagine a feeling that would inspire me to do that.

I guess it would make more sense to say that not moving on every whim is more in line with the "things I'd do for love" stuff. But it sounds less impressive than moving :-p

Posted by: frozen_midwest, Evil Overlord Local #25, Standards Committee | February 23, 2010 9:49 PM

The ultimate Shatner mash-up:

http://jeffburk.wordpress.com/shatnerquake/

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | February 23, 2010 10:08 PM

Kwok is at Good Math, Bad Math:

Really gets to be a bit tedious trying to answer once more the breathtaking inanity of a DI mendacious intellectual pornographer like Luskin, but I do commend you for your valiant effort.

Oh, Kwok. You might have made a decent ally if not for those glaring personality issues.

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 23, 2010 10:17 PM

Does that count as very silly thing when you're in love ?

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 23, 2010 10:23 PM

The Threadmas eve question, will we get to 28,000 posts by the time Watchman was posted? +1

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 23, 2010 10:38 PM

'Night 'Tis.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 23, 2010 10:42 PM

When you wake in the morning, it will be Threadmas Day!

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 23, 2010 10:45 PM

+1

Posted by: boygenius | February 23, 2010 11:16 PM

I'm going to leave a platter of bacon out for the poopyhead. And a flagon of grog.

I hope he leaves me something nice in my sock. (I don't wear "stockings".)

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 23, 2010 11:36 PM

That's the spirit, bg! Man, you know, if only we could get der Binger to sing our Threadmas carol...

if only we had a Threadmas carol...

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | February 23, 2010 11:41 PM

Or whistle it.

Plunk it out on an old piano.

I'm just brainstorming here.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 23, 2010 11:46 PM

in the interest of advancing the thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ZX5qdIEB0&feature=related

+1

Posted by: boygenius | February 23, 2010 11:49 PM

der Binger? I always thought it was der Bingle.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 12:03 AM

Joy to the Thread,
New post has come.
Let commenting begin!
While trolls flail sadly
And fundies argue badly
We talk about fun stuff
Rocks, ships and songs and fluff,
And we'll keep on typing
Sitting on our duff.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 12:12 AM

This is a poem called Fibonacci

1...

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 12:19 AM

2...

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 12:21 AM

3...

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 24, 2010 12:23 AM

Thinking about Aquaria's comments regarding Darcy, I've realised there is not one but two Austen-themed shows on during the Fringe: Austen's Women, a one-woman show about 11 (IIRC) different characters, including Lizzy Bennett; and Austen Found, a musical written from the 'lost' writings of Jane Austen. The former I saw on last weekend; the latter I'll see next weekend.

Really, the only Austen character I'm especially familiar with is Frank Churchill, since I played him in a stage adaptation of Emma.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 12:25 AM

8...

(Is this helping increase the thread-count, or is this just some stupid crap? I need to go to bed soon)

Posted by: boygenius | February 24, 2010 12:33 AM

Is this helping increase the thread-count, or is this just some stupid crap?

Yes.

Posted by: consciousness razor | February 24, 2010 12:45 AM

Bad King Poopyhead looked out
On the feast of Threadmas
When the posts lay round about
Deep and weird and endless
Brightly shone the moon that night
Though the frost was cruel
When a poor man came in sight
Writing Christian stool

"Hither, troll, and stand by me
If thou know'st it, telling
Yonder godhead, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?"
"Sire, he lives a good league hence
Underneath the mountain
Right against the forest fence
By Saint Agnes' fountain."

"Bring me flesh and bring me wine
Bring me frackin' crackers
Thou and I will see divine
When we solve these matters."
Troll and monarch, forth they went
Forth they went together
Thro' apologetic rants
And the bitter weather.

"Sire, the Thread is darker now
And your point is stronger
Fails my heart, I know not how
I can go no longer."
"Mark my footsteps, my dumb troll
Tread thou in them boldly
Thou shalt find atheism's toll
Freeze thy blood less coldly."

In his master's steps he trod
Where the squid had printed
None could be the very god
Which the troll had minted.
Therefore, atheists, be sure
Wealth or rank possessing
Ye who now will help the poor
Shall be soon progressing.

+1

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 1:21 AM

Holy fucking Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Now I'm glad I never participated at richarddawkins.net. If they started deleting entire accounts, including thousands of comments by people whose writing I appreciated, I would be fit to be tied.

Posted by: Ichthyic | February 24, 2010 1:29 AM

I've heard rumors elsewhere but figured they were just that; rumors.

I tried going to RDnet around the time "AirFarce Dave Hawkins" was making the rounds there.

It became immediately clear that the mods there were complete asshats.

Haven't gone back since.

that was what... 3 or 4 years ago?

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 24, 2010 1:32 AM

All I want for Threadmas is peezee's new book, peezee's new book, yes peezee's new book!

(Or a hug will do, a virtual hug for a fanboi even though I know it creeps the poopyhead out when random strangers ask him for hugs.)

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 24, 2010 1:57 AM

strange gods before me @ 380:

Now I'm glad I never participated at richarddawkins.net.

I never posted there, but read for a long time, mostly because of Calilasseia's awesome takedowns of various creationists. I was familiar with Calilasseia from a couple of other forums, and the posts were always a great read and informative. I hope Rationalia takes off and becomes a good new home for all those displaced so rudely.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 24, 2010 2:10 AM

If everyone else jumped off of a bridge I would too, so here's a Threadmas Carol for y'all.

Twelve days of Threadmas

12 Disemvowelings
11 Trolls complaining
10 Tentacled squid
9 Creationist screams
8 Panda trials
7 Deranged Xians
6 Blasphemous posts
5 Turbaconduckens
4 Missing links
3 Fracking crackers
2 Cuttlefish
and a copy of PZ's long awaited book.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | February 24, 2010 2:20 AM

That book dedication must have went to his head.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 24, 2010 2:29 AM

Hmm, I think - thanks to Pygmy Loris's lyrical skills - we've got ourselves our first drinking song for the GAC...

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 24, 2010 2:34 AM

But there was no suitable lodging area. :'( (do you still in tend to kick my stomach in?)

Posted by: boygenius | February 24, 2010 3:01 AM

you can hide behind me, after I tell him the story of me driving half the way from Seattle to North Dakota with only one break for a short nap.

He'll have to come through me to get to y'all after I disclose that I once drove from Fargo to San Francisco non-stop except for fuel-ups back in '91.

Twenty six hours of drive time. Oh, the glorious, wonderful powers of youth!*

*not to mention the stupidity and recklessness of doing so in order to get to a concert on time

Posted by: llewelly | February 24, 2010 3:17 AM

Animal "rights" activists threaten children.

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 3:46 AM

Animal "rights" activists threaten children.

Handing out leaflets at Ringach's children's school is stupid, uncouth, and not just a little bit creepy, but it doesn't amount to "threatening" anyone.

Threats are illegal. The proposed activism is still protected speech under the First Amendment.

Posted by: llewelly | February 24, 2010 5:01 AM

Threats are illegal. The proposed activism is still protected speech under the First Amendment.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 5:43 AM

My mom used to fall asleep at the wheel regularly; she had narcolepsy (fortunately I seem to be out of the woods for it myself). When I was a little girl I remember Mom basically driving us someplace random from time to time. Automatic behavior, it's called. She actually drove just fine, but I shudder to think what would have happened had some emergency happened while she was in that state. When she woke back up, she would sigh, pull over, and gather herself for a second, then we'd go have ice cream or something.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 5:46 AM

Happy Threadmas, everyone!

I have a webmeeting in 15 minutes, drat Dubai and their outlandish time zone....

Posted by: Rorschach | February 24, 2010 6:10 AM

Oh, happy Threadmas is it ? Time is flying when you have no life, it seems.

Well then, back to the beginnings.

Watchmen--The times they are a-changin'

Watchmen--Sound of silence

Watchmen--You're locked in here with me !

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 6:51 AM

There appears to be a SIMOTI* pandemic.

Is it true that the thousands of posts of users who have been deleted are gone forever? That is awful.

*Someone is Megalomaniacal on the Internet

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 7:31 AM

I couldn't deal with the nested comments and eye-watering graphics at RDF so, apart from occasionally glancing at it, I didn't spend much time there. But it's a shame that it's gone because it was a community.

One of the reasons this is the site I spend 99% of my time on is it that - most of the time at least - it's just text. I fucking hate coloured emoticons, signatures and avatars!

Exactly the same for me. The set-up of a forum just confuses me, too - I don't know how to find anything. I have a strong personal preference for this arragement. I'm sure that kind of system is structurally more organized, but I prefer to organize things conceptually myself.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | February 24, 2010 8:29 AM

Walton,

Since no one (even other evangelical Christians) actually likes Phelps or supports his message, and there is no popularity to be gained from defending his right to protest at funerals, it is only the most courageous and sincere defenders of free speech who will actually stand up for his right to protest.

Wow, I actually agree with Walton!

Often times when Phelps' gang shows up people hold counter protests (including having gay people make out in front of them). Other times people just ignore them. There are better ways to deal with them without limiting free speech.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 24, 2010 8:56 AM

+1

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 9:22 AM

I once fell asleep at the wheel for ~35 minutes on 1-70 W in western Kansas.

I also once drove from Cape Town to Johannesburg in a day. The only stops were for fuel and peppersteak pies, and one stop when I totaled a rental car in Bloemfontein and got another one from a nearby airport. Late that night, I also totaled a bunkbed in a backpacker.

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 24, 2010 9:39 AM

+ 2

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 9:46 AM

13...

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 24, 2010 9:56 AM

11...

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 24, 2010 10:08 AM

A hundred and eighty more posts or bust.

*looks around for the welcome carpet*

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 24, 2010 10:48 AM

Watch out, Cuttlefish! Carlie, Mr T, and Pygmy Loris are coming. :-)

Can't even warm that shit up to dry-ice acetone. The O-O bond just 2 pm longer than the double bond in O₂. Dang, that sounds dangerous.

So… the fluorine atoms are barely bound to the oxygens at all? :-S

wait...everybody gets the same EST timestamp as I do, right?

Yes.

Whoa - as we celebrate Threadmas, all is not well at the R.D. Corral - Death of the Dawkins forum – The world’s busiest atheist forum closes.

From there…

In response to the unanimous criticisms, Josh started playing with the settings in the forum. First he deactivated private messaging. This caused a major problem, as members were starting to share personal details so that they can keep in touch with good friends if the forum really did end up closing. Members also filled their signatures with details and where to find members after the forum had closed. Josh went on to lock viewable access to the forum. For a while, nobody could do anything. With the forum all to themselves, Josh and Andrew deleted any posts that criticised the decision. Next, they removed signatures so that other forums and meeting places could not be advertised. When all of this was done, Josh and Andrew reopened the forum in a read-only state. Nobody could post anymore, and the complaints thread had been completely deleted. They had added the following information to the original announcement:

Evil. Fucking evil. Timonen and Chalkley must be fired right fucking now. It doesn't impact me personally (I've never tried to comment there, I'm spending enough time over here…), but evil is evil.

How is it possible to be that callous? Are they glibertarians, too?

…Also from there…

To make things worse, Josh and Andrew started deleting members. The moderator who explained that the staff were innocent and treated so disrespectfully, Mazille, had his entire account deleted. This isn’t like a ban where you can no longer access the forum. When an account is deleted, all the user’s posts are deleted too. Mazille had thousands of posts that he was hoping to archive over the next 30 days. All gone, forever. They aren’t in a Recycle Bin of sorts. Next was CJ, a member who had been posting on the front page to explain what Josh was up to and that he was hiding the criticisms and the evidence that the moderating team were lied to and censored. Tens of thousands of posts lost forever. Josh and Andrew permanently deleted several users before starting to remove moderating permissions from the loyal staff.

I want to get violent.

The post goes on to wonder how much Dawkins knows about all this.

d'oh!

:-D :-D :-D

(Disclaimer: This was written before I read about the RD forum. Now I can't laugh anymore. Grrr.)

But there was no suitable lodging area. :'(

Your car…?

you can hide behind me, after I tell him the story of me driving half the way from Seattle to North Dakota with only one break for a short nap.

And a few breaks for eating, drinking, and the like, I suppose…? 1000 km in a day is feasible that way. Did you do 2000? One day and one night?

I once drove from Fargo to San Francisco non-stop except for fuel-ups back in '91.

Twenty six hours of drive time.

<facepalm>

Not all at once, people! I'm too tired* to kick you all around! At most I might be able to finally accept Jadehawk's offer from months ago and bite her! :.-(

* Why actually? Am I exhausted because the weather does a 180° turn every half hour today?

It's clumsy and awkward in a Ladenesque way

<snort>

I think I've found the cause (and workaround) for a certain kind of blockquote failure.

No, see my comments in that thread. Bizarrely, it really does seem to depend on the browser used to submit the comment.

"Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act"

<snort> Sometime during the first period of Bush the Lesser I said "hero" only means "dead American" anymore. Looks like I'm officially right.

We understand that for some of you it was a place to hang out and converse with like minded people but we are not looking to be a social network. There are many other sites that provide this service.

So… condescending… so… callous…

Evil.

Often times when Phelps' gang shows up people hold counter protests (including having gay people make out in front of them).

B-)

I once fell asleep at the wheel for ~35 minutes on 1-70 W in western Kansas.

So… the street was so straight and empty and your wheels so perfectly aligned that you survived it? I mean, I'm not actually sure you survived it, but… ;-)

<headshake>

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 24, 2010 10:57 AM

First my spanking new (leased) lenovo&#trade; gets all freezy

Huh. Mine never does that, nor does my sister's.

"Trade" isn't a number; it's &trade; without the #.

Forgot to mention what I ate yesterday… I was invited at my supervisor's and got a soup with cilantro. Not a Chinese one, and apparently not peppered, yet it tasted like those Chinese soups with a very strong spicy taste that I had attributed to loads of pepper. I took some of the cilantro out and ate it just so. Apparently that's the taste.

Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who's both able to taste the "bitter, soapy" component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!! Hahaaaa! <mad-scientist cackling>

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | February 24, 2010 11:35 AM

Hmmm - I think it's possible to sing "Ce-pha-lo-po-des" as "Adeste fideles", but my Latin is not good enough to follow it up.

What the squid's got into Timonnen? I thought he was supposed to be one of the good guys. Wanker.

--o--

I used to be very frugal as a kid, while my sister was more spendthrift. Now she drives a hard bargain, while I lurrrve stuff*. I have porcelain that I'm never likely to use much. Ties that I have worn at most once and more shoes than any straight man should have. It's been a good while since I bought any of it, though. But I'm not exactly living according to my means. Doesn't help that I decided to begin the month by wasting an inordinate amount on a woman of ill repute.

Never was very charitable, but have given to Donors Choose when encouraged by bloggers**.

--o--

I had a pretty comfortable - even spoilt - childhood, despite the dreadful economy (interest was over 20% for a while and small farming doesn't exactly pay). I was not really happy at school, though. But not all unhappy either, I guess. Pretty meh.

I was teased a lot for some years. I recall being very upset with the busdriver, but I no longer know exactly what he did to me. But the bus stopped being three by year three, so I must have been less than ten when I insisted my parents write and complain - they didn't.

Likewise I don't recall when the teasing began, but I think it was around year five the that I somehow realised that my crying just made it that much more fun to pick on me. After that I guess I hardened myself more. Supposedly I used irony at a younger age than what is supposed to be developmentally possible, so perhaps that explains my increasing sarcasm to use as a shield. When I stopped being fun teasing, I guess I did develop a bit of friendship even with some of the bullies, but I've never had close friends.

I was decidedly nerdy and that didn't diminish with age. By sixth form I'd pretty much isolated myself completely - I'd already stopped going to birthday and class parties before that; I really didn't like music and dancing and thus I never developed any socialising skills; the county parties/dances were no draw either.

We had a session with a guidance councellor (I think) at some point - my French and Religion teacher (at least I think I had her for Religion as well). She mentioned some time later that she'd paid notice to my reply to the task of drawing social diagrams - not sure why, though. Perhaps I was more perspicacious than I thought. I couldn't reconstruct it now - I can barely recall people's names - but I do recall putting myself off to the side with some other nerds; they socialised, though.

I never participated in the graduation ceremony - I just picked up my grade sheet some days later (when I needed it to apply to uni, and school hadn't sent it to). Nor did I get the traditional hat, nor the commemorative sweatshirt. For some reason I do remember the motive, though: That third year we had a student moved over from another class - I guess he didn't get along with them. He was pretty much only interested in drawing, so he drew the design. It was a big nest with caricatures of us. I was sitting under the tree, though, hunched over my desk with my big spectacles. Two of the other 'nerds' were lowering the third on a fishing line with binoculars to espy what it was I was writing***.

So, yeah, I've never had it as bad as some people here, so I'm not exactly in a position to whine.

* I also have a stack of doujinshi from when I got into fandom. Never gonna be able to read them, and the people I intended to share them with have pretty much dropped out of this particular niche of the Internet. And I have lost contact with them. So it goes.

** Speaking of which "Magnificent Math" didn't gather enough donations and I've just had my small contribution returned. Same day as I received a thank-you letter for another project along with a $25 'Giving Card'. Pity.

*** Not really fair. Noöne never cheated by getting my answers.

Posted by: Dania | February 24, 2010 11:56 AM

Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who's both able to taste the "bitter, soapy" component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!!

That's weird. I always thought that the only explanation for the existence of cilantro-loving people was that they were unable to taste its "soapy" component (thus not knowing that the stuff they're ingesting doesn't taste like food at all).

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | February 24, 2010 12:02 PM

Forgot to mention what I ate yesterday… I was invited at my supervisor's and got a soup with cilantro. Not a Chinese one, and apparently not peppered, yet it tasted like those Chinese soups with a very strong spicy taste that I had attributed to loads of pepper. I took some of the cilantro out and ate it just so. Apparently that's the taste.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Tomyamkung_JPN.jpg

?

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 12:17 PM

I do not mind a pinch of cilantro in Thai and Indian food. I can't stand it, not a little bit, in Italian and Mexican food. The fact that I can eat any at all is an improvement; I used to gag uncontrollably if I tasted even a little bit.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 12:33 PM

34...

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 24, 2010 1:20 PM

55...

Posted by: boygenius | February 24, 2010 1:35 PM

Browninan, you must tell me where you dine. My favorite place to have phở doesn't even have lesbians on the menu.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 24, 2010 1:44 PM

Am I the only one feeling a bit sad that our favorite geologist isn't here to celebrate Threadmas with us?

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 24, 2010 1:54 PM

Okay, what happened here? What did Laden do?

He stole my socks.

... Also, look out, he's right behind you*.

(/*This joke was composed in a moment of whimsy, and is in no way meant to minimize the fact that actually, what Laden did a while back did, in my ever so humble opinion, kinda suck donkey balls.)

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 2:09 PM

89...

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 2:21 PM

144...

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 24, 2010 2:27 PM

We need 600 posts to make the 28,000 mark. +1

Posted by: Dust.....spy | February 24, 2010 2:38 PM

Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a 'bad aditude' whatever the fuck that is.)

So I'm listening to this right now and will be for about 4 more times. :)

Mr. Charles Darwin had the gall to ask

Posted by: Dania | February 24, 2010 2:43 PM

I just realized that I won't be up by the time Watchman was posted (10:28 PM). Time Zones, you know.

But in the mean time... +1.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 2:55 PM

Ha! That was several subthreads ago! :-)

Really? My, how time flies.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 24, 2010 3:01 PM

I won't be here when the clock officially ticks over. I'll be somewhere on the Edens on my way to pick up the Redhead from the opera (Damnation of Faust). I'll check in when I get back to the exburbs.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 24, 2010 3:09 PM

Thanks, Carlie. That's fucked-up. And I used to have such respect for Greg. Does anyone have links to the thread where this all went down?

Browninan, you must tell me where you dine. My favorite place to have phở doesn't even have lesbians on the menu.

I bring my own and pay corkage.

Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who's both able to taste the "bitter, soapy" component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!!

Right up until the age of about 15 or so I could not stand cilantro whatsoever. I remember the soapy taste interacting with my tongue in some unwholesome (and not in the me + five lesbians + bacon kind of unwholesome) way. However, either I cannot taste what I used to taste or my tastebuds have flipped around or something because I love the stuff like a cat loves catnip.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 24, 2010 3:15 PM

Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a 'bad aditude' whatever the fuck that is.)

Sorry, Dust. That's really shitty.

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmcK_sM7QvEXzJgirTTelMNm1KARERobLA | February 24, 2010 3:20 PM

Wow I hate this sign in - why can't it let me show my own nickname?

Anyway, Happy Threadmass from a lurker out there

Stocking up on popcorn for the next wackjob (sorry, creationist) who ventures into the Pharyngula bearpit,

Tigana

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 24, 2010 3:27 PM

Do note how PZ has been posting a huge plain-vanilla-thread salvo in a desperate attempt to slow down the endless thread.

But now HaHaa
the thread-stuffing
Pharynguloids
are back in full swing.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 24, 2010 3:28 PM

cilantro? hot?

Posted by: negentropyeater | February 24, 2010 3:31 PM

hot ? Cilantro ?

Posted by: Dust.....spy | February 24, 2010 3:37 PM

Thanks Brownian, OM.

Job hunting in the USA always sux but especially these days, and I'm older than Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM (that Crusty Cow [did I get that right?]) so job hunting should be fun!

Here is another of my faves!

I'm Choosing my confessions

Posted by: boygenius | February 24, 2010 3:39 PM

What the hell is wrong with NBC? The U.S. hockey team is playing as we speak, and they are running a feckin' soap opera!

You can watch it live on the website, but you have to download some POS Microsoft player to do so. I refuse. Assholes.

/continues with rant in meatspace

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 24, 2010 3:42 PM

Alyssa Milano. Hot.

Posted by: Dust.....spy | February 24, 2010 3:51 PM

Ha Ha! Thanks Windy, I needed that. And thanks David M, too.

Awwhhh, Threadmas...because of this blog I learned about the Watchman movie and went to see it an it became one of my faves. The movie inspired the reading of the graphic novel...and it was great.
And now, I have the time to do it all over again! :)

But first, the rain has stopped and the sun doth shine, time for a bike ride!

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 24, 2010 4:09 PM

By the way, your comments on this thread have made me laugh, sympathetically of course.

See? Good can come from adversity! What is they say about comedians? To be one all you need is a sports jacket and a bad childhood. ;)

Tilapia?

BLASPHEMER!

I don't much care for the Asian varieties you can buy around here, but I lived on fried tilapia for half a year when I was in East Africa. Even now when I eat the things people make Sylvester the Cat jokes about me swallowing the fish whole and pulling out only the skeleton. By the way, never try to swallow a fish whole. I once spent a good afternoon at the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology trying to estimate rates of people dying from accidentally swallowing whole fish. I only found three or four cases over at least twice that many years, so stable rates were not forthcoming.

Posted by: blf | February 24, 2010 4:09 PM

hey I also had a soup with cilantro yesterday. It must have been cilantro-soup-day yesterday in France.

Not here. In fact, I don't recall having any soup at all yesterday. To eat, that is; I did buy some interesting-looking organic Tibetaine soup, which, I notice, does contain cilantro. Hum…

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | February 24, 2010 4:16 PM

Is there a User's Guide to this thread?
How do you folks follow anything?
How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?
How do you find that recipe for chicken paprikas?
My Hungarian grandmother's:
kill, gut and pluck chicken
cut into pieces
put pieces in pot of water
simmer for a while
add spices
serve

Posted by: blf | February 24, 2010 4:24 PM

Is there a User's Guide to this thread?

Open window; jump.

How do you folks follow anything?

Gravity.

How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?

There's a fresh splat on the ground which is rapidly getting larger.

How do you find that recipe for chicken paprikas?

You hit a piece of bacon, bounce back into the air, and are caught by a passing chicken, who says, “Eat me. Here's a nice recipe.”

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 24, 2010 4:29 PM

Alyssa Milano. Hot.

More reminisces from the days of Brownian the Younger: for a multitude of reasons, most stemming from having a violently abusive father who was the opposite of a role model, I wasn't so interested in typically male activities. I didn't care for sports and could never be bothered to learn much about cars. Of course, you couldn't just get away with saying "I don't like hockey" if you were a boy in Edmonton in the 80s, so you'd fake it: pick some obvious star as your favourite and hope nobody questions you too deeply. So, my favourite hockey player was Wayne Gretzky (natch!) and my favourite car was a Lamborghini. Of course, true auto or sports aficianados have more nuanced favourites which come from having familiarity with the subject, but both of these answers sound reasonable and you don't have to answer any weird questions about cams and cylinders and hat tricks*.

Now, I didn't know sports or cars, but I knew girls. So when any guy had a pin-up of some big-breasted blonde 'bombshell' like Samantha Fox (or Pamela Anderson for you darn kids), I figured it was a good chance they were pulling the same stunt. I've conducted brief surveys, and encountered at least two gay men who've admitted to plastering their rooms as adolescents with Sam Fox posters just to avoid that uncomfortable talk with Dad or their friends.

The reason I bring this up is because this hypothesis came to me in a flash at some point in Grade 8 when I noticed one of my fellow students had posters of Alyssa Milano in his locker and I thought it was a very nuanced choice, as if Alyssa Milano were the Shelby Mustang of pin up poster girls for the 80s.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 24, 2010 4:35 PM

Is there a User's Guide to this thread?

Type something. If people like it, that's good. If people don't like it, that's bad. But it may also be good (never just follow the crowd at chow time.

How do you folks follow anything?

On this thread, or in real life? The answer to both, for me at least, is I don't. But that's okay.

How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?

Skim. Search for your name. The latter is confounded by people like me that don't often refer to other posters by name, instead just blockquoting the salient parts of their comments. I'm trying to become more considerate about this, kiyaroru.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 24, 2010 4:47 PM

I don't get to join in the drinking tonight, due to the need to pick up the Redhead after the opera. The only nice thing is that usually there is very little congestion on the freeways that time of night.

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 4:53 PM

Threadmas without Svanta?!

*POUT*

Brownian, this was when I brought it home, so to speak:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/this_is_the_thread_that_youre.php#comment-2246475

Posted by: JPS, FCD, Death's Statistics Coach | February 24, 2010 5:09 PM

Jadehawk @ 5, did you mean "п разу око?" Or "п разы око?"

JPS, recovering math geek -- NOT!

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 5:16 PM

BLASPHEMER!

I don't much care for the Asian varieties you can buy around here, but I lived on fried tilapia for half a year when I was in East Africa.

I suspect varieties may be very different. I just did a tiny bit of research (a dangerous thing) and discovered that the farmed US ones eat a lot of...

corn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilapia_in_aquaculture#Around_the_world

Ew.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 5:24 PM

To celebrate Threadmas, I made a sour-cream chocolate cake, with cream-cheese frosting. Even a guy with recent mount damage, say, for example, the Professional Poopyhead, could carefully chew some and enjoy. Such a nice bite, with the sweetness of cake mixed with the tang of the sour cream and the little bit of cream cheese. I must say, for not being a very good cook, I'm proud of this one.

BTW, loved all the Threadmas carols, especially the submission from Pygmy Loris. Others were also good, and I sang them out loud (good think I work alone).

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | February 24, 2010 5:32 PM

BTW, loved all the Threadmas carols, especially the submission from Pygmy Loris. Others were also good, and I sang them out loud (good think I work alone).

Yeah, me too. If you folks could do that on a regular basis you'd have poor Cuttlefish turning positively white.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 5:35 PM

Kiyaroru, drop me a line and I'll e-mail you back the same recipes I sent Josh.

And your grandmother made chicken soup. Doubtless it was excellent, but it's not the same thing.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 5:38 PM

Oh, dammit, sorry, my e-mail is my username up there with the usual "at gmail.com" appended to it. Anyone who wants the recipe may request a copy. I sent Josh five recipes, three of the dish itself for comparison, and two necessary accompaniments. Too long to post here.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 5:46 PM

I have been ... ordered by our friendly and competent IT people to leave my computer in my office, on, logged in, and connected to the network all night long tonight so they can get in and futz about with network security or some shit.

Uh, that is some shit. I work in IT. We are forbidden to leave our computers logged in and unattended. Our IT department has a master administrator account we can use to log in and do stuff that the user accounts can't even do, which is best practices and standard procedure throughout the industry.

If anyone in IT asked me to do this, I would "accidentally" "forget" and bring my work laptop home with me "like I usually do." I also figured out how to bork the remote access that the IT staff is supposed to be able to do without my consent. Last time they tried that shit on me without asking first, I repeatedly shut down my computer until they came and asked me why I wouldn't let them work. And I gave them a large piece of my mind with whipped cream and a cherry.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 24, 2010 5:50 PM

Jadehawk @ 5, did you mean "п разу око?" Or "п разы око?"

Posted by: windy | February 24, 2010 6:09 PM

SC: I sent a comment a couple of days ago as well.

Posted by: MrFire | February 24, 2010 6:11 PM

Dude, you linked to Squeeze.

:D But I bet you rocked to it it anyway.

It can get worse, you know. Much, much worse.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 24, 2010 6:13 PM

Dust,

That sucks!

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 24, 2010 6:20 PM

cilantro? hot?

It's... strange. It's not actually hot, because it doesn't hurt on my lips, but inside the mouth I find it similar.

oh and btw, don't think I missed the part where you were offering to bite me. I'm just still trying to figure out if it's worth getting you pissed off more just to get bitten more. it's a tough choice, you know ;-)

:-)

I don't actually need to be angry for that, you know... there are things I don't normally do that I would do for people...

And thanks David M, too.

:-| I just wish I could, you know, help.

But like David, I like the soapy taste.

As I said, I don't actually find cilantro soapy... at least not in soups, and I haven't had any elsewhere.

But then, I haven't licked at soap much.

How do you folks follow anything?

The Power of Procrastination

(Though I did write my entire first grant proposal today. It was limited to a page, but shortening stuff isn't easier than just adding more and more and more information.)

Or "п разы око?"

The latter, but with п in Greek lowercase (the number, you know...) and the rest in Polish spelling.

The first time people started to think I was a witch

:-) :-) :-)

And now I'll submit this somewhat lengthy comment before singing Threadmas Night. Not that another 100 comments were posted in the meantime.

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 6:24 PM

Knockgoats and windy, I'm so sorry! Your comments have now been published. I must have checked the meter but not the moderation.

So… the street was so straight and empty and your wheels so perfectly aligned that you survived it?

Apropos of nothing, Siesta was one of the strangest movies I've ever seen.

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | February 24, 2010 6:28 PM

The reason I bring this up is because this hypothesis came to me in a flash at some point in Grade 8 when I noticed one of my fellow students had posters of Alyssa Milano in his locker and I thought it was a very nuanced choice, as if Alyssa Milano were the Shelby Mustang of pin up poster girls for the 80s.

While this is probably true in your friend's case, in this case, it was just the first thing I could come up with that had some assonance with 'cilantro' when I went grepping in my archive of hot starlet names...

...so, technically, I could still be gay. Or even an AI. Or a dog. On the internet, no one knows, y'know?

... but I hear ya on the cars/sports thing. Wasn't so much the abusive father, in my case, but I just never got into any of that stuff. Hell, even in sports I actually do, now, I'm not much for following pro stuff at all.

... re the hockey thing, what's especially annoying is when you're traveling in the US, and there's this natural assumption that since you're Canadian, you were born with skates on (presumably, Canadian mothers find this uncomfortable, but they're tough, see?)...

And while I can, technically, skate, and even pretty well, I can't name one current player in the NHL, owing to the fact that I just don't actually watch any TV sports (the only Olympic stuff I've seen yet, I kid you not, I've seen in a bar in a ski lodge while getting dressed or undressed before/after boarding)...

So I've often thought there should be some service you could get on your smartphone for these situations: sports smalltalk helper for those who truly don't give a damn. It could give you talking points--who's winning what, why you should care, y'know... So if some guy in a job interview or somethin' making nice to the Canadian asks an opinion, you could say somethin' like 'I hear the Habs have a good shot at the playoffs this year if player X stays off the injury list', and then quickly change the subject.

(/Or create a diversion and flee the room. Anyway.)

Posted by: Apolipoprotein E | February 24, 2010 6:31 PM

Can I ask the people here for advice?

I was in class yesterday where we discussed the anthropological implications of the risk of women traveling alone. Four of the men in class had basically said that when a woman is rape, it was her fault for being too provocative, and not using her reason/common sense. I had wanted to retaliate by saying that "I wanted to steal their liver because they provoked me to do it by showing how healthy and vulnerable it was and that they should have use common sense and not travel alone" but I thought my statement would be rather impotent. What should I have said?

Posted by: David Marjanović | February 24, 2010 6:35 PM

<sigh> Looks like I'm already too tired. I cite one possibility and say "the latter". Yes, разы is it, letter for letter.

Amd what is the history of that? What is the reason for that? Whose interests does that serve?

Or in other words...

Everything is the way it is because it got that way.
– J. B. S. Haldane

I don't know how I'm going to cope at the GAC when using it to introduce myself to people

Don't introduce yourself. Wear a nametag, shake people's hands, and say "hi".

There are reasons why scientists wear nametags at conferences, you know...

= = = = =

Anyway: Threadmas Night. Someone mentioned snark...

Silent snark, unholy snark,
Bacon crisp, chocolate dark,
Make me want to sing like a lark.
Burgeoning Internet romances – hark!
Much more fun than Fark
(or as the Isle of Sark).

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 6:39 PM

It can get worse, you know. Much, much worse.

So part of my school story is that I was so sickly that I missed so much school that had I gone to public high school I could not legally have graduated. Hence my extensive knowledge of TV trivia.

There was a show in like the '90s (I don't think I was sick, but I did see the first few episodes) in which the lead character was in the music business. In (IIRC) the pilot episode, he was on a first or second date with a woman and talked about his favorite song - can't remember what it was, but I think it was good. She was like, "Oh, yeah, that's one of my favorites, and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdj9NRzqC4 ."

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 6:46 PM

OTOH, Walton, kudos for your intention to do some voluntary work for detained refugees. These are indeed people right at the bottom of the pile, and appallingly oppressed by the state.

I second that, and apologies for not saying so earlier.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | February 24, 2010 6:48 PM

2584...

(2584/1597 = 1.618033813...)

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 6:54 PM

I found it!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457046/

2006? I have no sense of time.

...But then, I'm not neurotypical. :)

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 24, 2010 6:59 PM

Oh, and... chocolate with two syllables... is that British-only, like medicine?

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | February 24, 2010 7:10 PM

Dust: my condolences on the loss of your job. Especially right now.

To all: Happy Threadmas!

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 7:14 PM

I've been vindicated for highlighting the trend of mormons sucking up to catholics. The trend to rehab the catholics in mormon eyes as something other than the "Whore of Babylon" is speeding up.

When the mormons stepped discretely behind a catholic/evangelical false front when it came to anti-gay campaigns that followed the PR disaster of the Prop 8 campaign, I figured there would only be more of the same. So, now they love the Whore of Babylon and have invited her to speak at BYU repeatedly.

The latest example includes Cardinal Francis George speaking, greeting LDS apostles Elders M. Russell Ballard and Quentin L. Cook, and BYU President Cecil O. Samuelson at BYU devotional, yesterday (February 23).

I guess that getting in bed with the Whore of Bablylon is preferable to allowing gays to have a life. And, of course, secularists are dissing god right and left, so this is an emergency.

he fight to defend moral principles is linking Mormons and Catholics like never before.
     "In recent years, Catholics and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have stood more frequently side by side in the public square to defend human life and dignity," Cardinal Francis George told nearly 12,000 students, faculty and community members gathered Tuesday at BYU.
     "I'm personally grateful that after 180 years of living mostly apart from one another, Catholics and Latter-day Saints have begun to see each other as trustworthy partners in defense of shared moral principles."
     Believed to be the highest-ranking Catholic official to ever visit BYU, Cardinal George spoke about the need for both religions to stand together to protect religious freedom — not simply as a set of private beliefs, but the ability of individuals and groups to practice their religion in the public square.
     "Any attempt to reduce that fuller sense of religious freedom, which has been part of our history in this country for more than two centuries, to a private reality of worship and individual conscience so long as you don't make anyone else unhappy, is not in our tradition," said Cardinal George, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Archbishop of Chicago. "It was the tradition of the Soviet Union."

His message was echoed by Elder Dallin H. Oaks, who spoke recently at BYU-Idaho.

"Religious values and political realities are so interlinked in the origin and perpetuation of this nation that we cannot lose the influence of Christianity in the public square without seriously jeopardizing our freedoms," said Elder Oaks, a member of the LDS Church's Quorum of the Twelve.
     Protecting those freedoms, despite theological differences, is so crucial that both Catholics and Latter-day Saints are seeing themselves as "spiritually united," said Robert George, a devout Catholic and professor at Princeton University who spoke at BYU in October 2008....
The article is three pages screens long, so there's lots to enjoy if you like horror shows.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 24, 2010 7:16 PM

Apolipoprotein E,

One way to turn the discussion around on the males in your class would be to ask them if they think they are entitled to put their penises in the vagina of any woman they find attractive, regardless of her feelings on the subject. If they say no, ask them why it matters how she's dressed then. Ask them why they don't find it insulting to their entire gender that they're saying men are incapable of self-control. Tell them that in other cultures and at other times in our own culture, provacatively dressed has meant showing ankles or knees. Ask them how much flesh women should cover to be "safe" from rape. Tell them that people from infants to the elderly have been raped. Ask them how much clothing an infant should be wearing to avoid being raped.

You can also look them straight in the eyes and ask if every woman they had sex with actually said yes.

This will probably make them defensive and uncomfortable, but it's rather satisfying.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | February 24, 2010 7:19 PM

Carlie,

Great minds and all that :)

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | February 24, 2010 7:27 PM

Jadehawk:

Where I grew up in Oregon, we pronounced chocolate with three syllables. My kids, who spent four of their first seven years in Italy, sometimes pronounce it with four.

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 7:34 PM

Ask them how much clothing an infant should be wearing to avoid being raped.

Sickeningly, needed to be repeated.

Posted by: Hekuni Cat, Champion of Oriana | February 24, 2010 7:35 PM

Happy Threadmas, to all!

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 24, 2010 7:39 PM

BTW, I'm tiring of my current nym, and may change it soon. Of course, I'll announce it if I decide to do so.

I know what you're doing - you're just hoping for another round of people -like those who didn't realise you have an OM under your previous moniker - will nominate you for one, aren't you?

I don't think I could bring myself to change mine. I've never had a reputation before; I'm kind of attached to it...

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 7:45 PM

I found a reference to the list I was thinking of - looks like the original post is no longer where it was, but the reference had the first three tips for avoiding being a rapist:

1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!

There have been several other versions, one long one here, including:

8. If you see a woman in a parking lot, don't rape her.

9. If you see a woman walking alone at night, don't rape her.

10. If you see a woman in a short skirt, don't rape her.

11, If you see a woman with long hair, don't rape her.

12. If you see a woman walking down a dark street at 4 AM, naked, don't rape her.

13. If you see a woman who is not carrying pepper spray for self protection, does not know karate, does not have a gun, and is not even holding an umbrella to ward you off, still don't rape her.

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 7:48 PM

Aw, you beat me to it. Well here's the other one you might be thinking of: http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2009/09/sexual_assault_3

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 7:54 PM

SC - That's the one I was looking for!

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 7:56 PM

Also the one from strange gods. Why couldn't I find it? Google hates me.

Posted by: MAJeff, OM | February 24, 2010 7:59 PM

Oh hey, it looks like they're making a documentary on the origins of the Tea Party Movement.

How far back in time are they going? The Know-Nothings? The Klan? Father Coughlin? McCarthy? Nixon? Reagan?

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 8:07 PM

Also the one from strange gods. Why couldn't I find it? Google hates me.

The first one I found because I specifically remembered the phrase "don't rape them" and I searched for that in quotes. The second one I just plugged in your first result: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22remember+not+to+assault+them%22

Posted by: Aratina Cage | February 24, 2010 8:09 PM

And my special thanks to our tentacled overlord. I really appreciate what you're doing here, PZ.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | February 24, 2010 8:11 PM

About an hour and a half for thirty more posts to reach the 28,000 total, Svens goal. We can do it.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 8:16 PM

Kiyaroru, since as best I can determine it means "in paprika sauce" we're probably both right. It's not anything like my Hungarian immigrant father's recipe, or any similar recipe called that in cookbooks, though.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 8:17 PM

Only thirty? Surely we can do that. I thought I saw in the 800s earlier, but I was skimming.

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 24, 2010 8:20 PM

Just a quick check-in to say hi to the Pharyngulite Horde, especially the three Pharyngulettes who constitute (in Lynna's felicitous phrase) the other three sides of my "love square."

I haz much intertubes and real life dramaz (dramaz, not srs bzness) to put to bed.

Oh and also to badgersdaughter - thank you for the paprikash recipes!

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | February 24, 2010 8:21 PM

Dust, that really sucks, that you have to deal with all this at once.

So, first that loss and now this loss, well shit I'm not the most resilant person and am concerned about depression creeping in.

You may have to make conscious effort to keep doing the things that you enjoy, and spending a lot of time with friends. Depression will make you less motivated to do these things, but they're necessary to prevent depression from worsening. :\

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 8:27 PM

Oh, goodie, Utah is proposing more laws that will turn victims into criminals ... especially if the victims are women. Measure on illegal abortions heads to governor

The Utah Senate has joined the House in allowing homicide charges against expectant mothers who arrange illegal abortions....ome Senate Democrats attempted a last-minute amendment to remove the word "reckless" from the list of criminal acts leading to miscarriage. They argued that criminalizing reckless acts leaves open the possibility of prosecutions against domestic violence victims who return to their abusers only to be beaten and lose the child.
"It's part of the cycle of domestic violence," said Sen. Luz Robles, D-Salt Lake City.
     "I hope none of you ever have to face that situation," she said after realizing the majority would pass the bill as is, "or have a daughter facing that situation, or a granddaughter."
But the bill's sponsor, Sen. Margaret Dayton, R-Orem, said the bill doesn't target victims at all -- only those who arrange to terminate their pregnancies illegally....

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | February 24, 2010 8:30 PM

I honestly had no idea that coming here (after reading a random article on a site I now don't even remember) to find out who this PZ Myers person was, and why he was tossed out of a cinema screening of some creationist film in the US would lead to this site becoming a constant fixture in my life.

The thought of it shutting down is enough to keep me awake at nights - well, if I wasn't already being kept awake at night by the sheer volume of information running through my brain as a result of all the wacky theatre I'm seeing.

Funny - watching tv never seems to lead to insomnia. Kind of telling, isn't it?

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 8:37 PM

Josh @578: Hi right back, oh manly side of the Love Square! Take care, and may all your dramas sort themselves out.
First Wife, Lynna

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 8:44 PM

You may have to make conscious effort to keep doing the things that you enjoy, and spending a lot of time with friends. Depression will make you less motivated to do these things, but they're necessary to prevent depression from worsening.

Depression that is easily understood and therefore "justified", that is, depression that stems from loss of a job or loss of loved ones (in this case, both), can be used to also justify withdrawing. Even if you don't feel like doing so, go out with friends, or do like I did -- make yourself go for a hike in the great outdoors. You don't have to be up to your usual standards with your friends, nor do you have to accomplish anything, nor meet any goals, etc. Just go.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | February 24, 2010 8:48 PM

Between the animal activist thread and the RDF thread, there is a wealth of stupid going on. So I'll just say I cannot abide cilantro, might as well chew on a bar of soap. Yecch.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 8:50 PM

Just go.

If you have no friends, as I may soon, or if you have evil friends who dissolve into their own juvenile drama at just the point when you need them most, like mine are, then there are still things you can do.

Stay in touch with people. Any people. People at the mall, people at work, just give yourself human contact.

Activity is good, even solo activity. A study was done recently that showed that daily exercise was as effective as the usual medicines for mild to moderate depression. I bought an exercise bike. I get on the thing whenever I start feeling deadly gray. It works for me.

As for going outside... meh, I can't speak to that; I live in Houston and nobody ever goes outside around here. :)

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | February 24, 2010 8:57 PM

Josh! Lynna! I will NOT be walking behind anyone.

'Now has a very stern look on her face.'

Posted by: MAJeff, OM | February 24, 2010 9:00 PM

Dang, it's snowing out. The one night all week I can't sit home...

at least it's warm enough to snow...

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 24, 2010 9:00 PM

Josh! Lynna! I will NOT be walking behind anyone.

'Now has a very stern look on her face.'

Oh, of course not! I have a better idea. Let us four all walk . . . abreast.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | February 24, 2010 9:04 PM

Janine, don't forget, it's easier to give wedgies from the back than from the front.

Three wives? Hmm, according to Islam Josh gets another one. I'm not applying; I'll just sit over here with a glass of red wine and my knitting and be wry Sister Badger. :)

Speaking of red wine, I feel like having people over. I know I've only been vocal in the threads for a little while, but I've been lurking for years. What say you to a small get together at my place in Houston?

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | February 24, 2010 9:05 PM

Oh, of course not! I have a better idea. Let us four all walk . . . abreast.

That's an awful lot of breasts.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: SC OM | February 24, 2010 9:08 PM

If you have no friends, as I may soon, or if you have evil friends who dissolve into their own juvenile drama at just the point when you need them most, like mine are, then there are still things you can do.

Like keep hanging here!!!

Posted by: Lynna, OM | February 24, 2010 9:11 PM

Oh, of course not! I have a better idea. Let us four all walk . . . abreast.

Oh, and to the other lady-loves of the Official SpokesGay, the "First Wife" comment was meant as irony + sarcasm + comedy.

I am highly amused by our Official SpokesGay's declarations of love for the ladies. He gets so much action!

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 24, 2010 9:12 PM

You may have to make conscious effort to keep doing the things that you enjoy, and spending a lot of time with friends.

I deeply, passionately hate the "spend time with friends" advice for depression. For one, I rarely ever had such friends (I had two in Seattle... and before that, I had one in 4th grade) so reminding me of that back when I hadn't come to terms with my loner-dom made me even more depressed; and two, spending time with "people in general" (this being the second half of that piece of advice usually) always meant putting on my public persona, i.e. the one who isn't anti-social and unhappy and generally grumpy; which was exhausting, and ALSO just made me feel worse.

I eventually solved that problem by cultivating coffee-shop friendships, i.e. getting to the point where the staff knew me by name, but since they were at work I could mostly ignore them and read, while still being surrounded by people I could exchange a word or two with if necessary, and who didn't get insulted because I left whenever the fuck I had enough of human company.

:-p

soooo anyway, I hope you'll figure out how to avoid falling into depression, dust! good luck and everything.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | February 24, 2010 9:16 PM

at least it's warm enough to snow...

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official | February 24, 2010 9:18 PM

I am not a number! I am a free woman!

Janine, mistress mine, just in case. . .you do know I'm just playing the cheeky, naughty role of SpokesGay, right?

Posted by: Ichthyic | February 24, 2010 9:22 PM

a little late, but:

Uh, that is some shit. I work in IT. We are forbidden to leave our computers logged in and unattended. Our IT department has a master administrator account we can use to log in and do stuff that the user accounts can't even do, which is best practices and standard procedure throughout the industry.

yes, you would think it strange, but the reason they want the comp logged in with the primary user's account is specifically for the active directory update.

normally, you wouldn't, but the way active directory works, it has to set permissions for the primary account for each user for each directory, both in the registry and on the disk itself.

if you aren't logged in with the account at the time it tries to upgrade, it will fail.

and, no, an admin account won't do; unless you yourself have set your account with full admin privileges from the very first.

In fact, it's why we never went with active directory when I was in IT.

Too much hassle to upgrade :P