Pharyngula

Posted by: hobbitjeff22369 | April 8, 2010 8:00 AM

Wow, you know you're bottom of the barrel when even the Klan refuses to be associated with you.

Posted by: Moggie | April 8, 2010 8:04 AM

A Belize domain name? How very patriotic of them.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 8, 2010 8:07 AM

You'd think the "God Hates Jews" signs would have swayed them.

I guess there weren't enough "God Hates Niggers" signs.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | April 8, 2010 8:09 AM

Kudos to the Klan for a change.

What's their position on evolution, global warming and abortion?

Posted by: Rachel Bronwyn | April 8, 2010 8:13 AM

Oppose evolution and abortion, but vary regarding global warming.

Posted by: Zeno | April 8, 2010 8:21 AM

Q. How do you know you're a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

A. When not even Jesus loves you.

Posted by: jerthebarbarian | April 8, 2010 8:23 AM

@#4

Considering the Klan is in favour of outlawing homosexuality, I have no idea why they dislike the Westboro Baptist Church. Maybe it's their style?

My guess is that the Klan considers their picketing of soldiers with signs saying "God Hates US Soldiers" to be a bit much - some of those soldiers are white after all.

Actually that's pretty much how the Phelps clan fell out of favor with everyone. When they were just showing up to picket at the funerals of gay men, they had a number of tacit supporters. They didn't become toxic until they started picketing soldiers too. (I think Phelps is doing it intentionally - it feeds the martyr complex of his church/family to have everyone hate them, and it keeps them unified against outsiders).

Posted by: Knockgoats | April 8, 2010 8:33 AM

Doesn't really work, for me - being despised and repudiated by the KKK is not a badge of shame! I sincerely hope they would despise and repudiate me and any political campaign I've been involved in. And we know kooks and kranks of different kinds frequently despise and repudiate each other.

Posted by: shonny | April 8, 2010 8:41 AM

When the worst imaginable bigots find someone even lower, - that is low!

Posted by: mxh Author Profile Page | April 8, 2010 8:09 AM

Ouch. I can't tell what's worse, being accepted by the KKK or being rejected by them.

In this case you can look at it as life forms where KKK would be at the bottom rung, but they have found some life form beneath them.
Most other is way above, of course. With a few exceptions, being on the same rung. No prize for guessing who, though there is quite a selection.

Posted by: Antiochus Epimanes | April 8, 2010 8:44 AM

Oh, pleaseohpleaseohplease let the Phelpstards try to picket a Klan rally!

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | April 8, 2010 8:48 AM

I think Phelps is doing it intentionally - it feeds the martyr complex of his church/family to have everyone hate them, and it keeps them unified against outsiders.

So -- basically what other Christians do, only moreso.

"Westboro Baptist Church. Tastes like regular Christianity, but with only half the shame!"

Posted by: Denis Loubet | April 8, 2010 8:50 AM

KKK LLC? WTF?

What, you need to incorporate to burn crosses now?

Just seems weird to me, is all.

Posted by: bbgunn071679 | April 8, 2010 8:58 AM

I think the KKK despises Westboro for its flagrant use of color in all of its signage. And, since they're from KS, their kin probably fought on the wrong side of the Civil War.

Posted by: fireweaver | April 8, 2010 9:00 AM

@jerthebarbarian #13:

Actually that's pretty much how the Phelps clan fell out of favor with everyone. When they were just showing up to picket at the funerals of gay men, they had a number of tacit supporters. They didn't become toxic until they started picketing soldiers too. (I think Phelps is doing it intentionally - it feeds the martyr complex of his church/family to have everyone hate them, and it keeps them unified against outsiders)

I think Phelps would break the scales on the
"Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame" with the KKK not far behind.
Granted, Isaac Bonewits is something of a woo-meister himself, but his particular brand ranks very low on the danger scale. Be that as it may, his cult danger evaluation frame should be kept alongside Carl Sagans "Baloney Detection Kit" as a convenient reference.

Posted by: cactusren | April 8, 2010 9:06 AM

bbgunn071679: I'm pretty sure any member of the KKK would refer to that war as "The War of Northern Agression" or at least "The War between the States". It's never referred to as the Civil War by "proper" southerners.

Posted by: Rabid Child | April 8, 2010 9:07 AM

The WBC is coming to Blacksburg, VA tomorrow to picket the April 16, 2007 shootings. These swine say that tragedy was the fault of the student's promiscuity and general "un-Christian" behavior. As a grad from Virginia Tech who still lives in Blacksburg, I am conflicted as to how I should respond. I don't want to give them any more attention, but I also feel wrong to just let them trounce the memory of those who lost their lives. Any suggestions? Thanks.

p.s. The only organized counter-protests I have heard of are from religious organizations and I don't feel like singing "Kumbaya" to these assholes.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | April 8, 2010 9:11 AM

Since my days as a GLBT activist lawyer the Phelps clan have always had a truly special place in my heart. I have traded tirades with that old wanker and his shithead offspring so many times that I have always pledged that when the old fuck dies, I will again travel to the US and I will proudly and vocally stand at his funeral holding a placard that says "GOD FUCKING HATES FRED PHELPS".

I've lost so much of my life arguing against that old arseknob and the bitchclam that is Shirley that it will be my very special pleasure to attend the service and pay my personal respects.

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | April 8, 2010 9:20 AM

I'd be interested in seeing an encounter between the Phelps clan and the Klan clan. I'm also picturing something like MTV's Celebrity Death Match between Phelps and Duke. And one more thing. Perhaps this has been mentioned before, because I can't imagine I'm the only person who thinks Phelps looks like this guy.

Posted by: Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com | April 8, 2010 9:30 AM

@ KOPD

Maybe they should go on Jerry Springer?

"When ignorant racists and deranged, homophobic religious nut bags clash!"

The thought of Phelps standing up on stage and taking off his shirt is disturbing to say the least.

No doubt they'd rumble on the set... And how would Jerry sign off on that show?

"You know, we can all learn a lesson from this. God hates idjits."

Posted by: VoiceoftheGods | April 8, 2010 9:33 AM

@Rabid Child #31

I am particularly fond of the counter-protest fundraiser. Using the WBC presence as an incentive for a fundraiser to raise money for those they oppose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Of_2ykZpQ

I don't know if there is a fund already set up for the victims of the Virginia Tech shooting or if other organizations will come to mind for the contributions.

Posted by: Disturbingly Openminded | April 8, 2010 9:40 AM

KKK LLC? WTF?

What, you need to incorporate to burn crosses now?

Just seems weird to me, is all.

No, you need to incorporate to protect your personal assets (like, your trailer home and your rusted Ford 150 pick-up) from civil lawsuits.

Good business decision by the KKK. They're evil, not stupid. Well, maybe not stupid.

Posted by: Rabid Child | April 8, 2010 9:47 AM

@ Steve and Voice of the Gods

Thanks for your suggestions. I like the fundraiser idea but it may be too late to organize (they will be at VT in 24 hrs). I also like the "God Dates Fags" sign and I might actually grow a pair to make one.

Posted by: Disturbingly Openminded | April 8, 2010 9:50 AM

While IANAL, the business law attorneys I have worked with tell me that 99.9% of small businesses with liability protection, such as LLCs and S Corps, operate in such a way as to nullify their liability protection.

The Klucks, for example, transport LLC property in the personally owned rusted Ford pickup rather than in the (non-existent) LLC truck. And, wouldn't you know it, they can't produce a lease agreement between the LLC and the individual for the use of the truck.

So,they are both evil and stupid.

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | April 8, 2010 9:58 AM

Another reason the Klan wouldn't like Phelps is that he was instrumental in taking down the Jim Crow laws in Topeka. To the Klan, he'd be a "nigger lover."

From Wiki:

Phelps earned a law degree from Washburn University in 1962, and founded the Phelps Chartered law firm in 1964. The first notable cases were related to civil rights. "I systematically brought down the Jim Crow laws of this town," he says.[15] Phelps' daughter was quoted as saying, "We took on the Jim Crow establishment, and Kansas did not take that sitting down. They used to shoot our car windows out, screaming we were nigger lovers," and that the Phelps law firm made up one-third of the state’s federal docket of civil rights cases.

Phelps took cases on behalf of African American clients alleging racial discrimination by school systems, and a predominantly black American Legion post which had been raided by police, alleging racially-based police abuse.

Posted by: James Sweet | April 8, 2010 10:03 AM

I am conflicted as to how I should respond. I don't want to give them any more attention, but I also feel wrong to just let them trounce the memory of those who lost their lives. Any suggestions? Thanks. p.s. The only organized counter-protests I have heard of are from religious organizations and I don't feel like singing "Kumbaya" to these assholes.

Not sure if this would be appropriate in the context of the VA Tech shootings, but remember in San Fransisco awhile back, when WBC showed up to picket the Twitter offices, people did a surrealist counter-protest. Signs that said things like:

"Build PRISONS on the MOON!"
"I have a sign!"
"God Never Gonna Give You Up"
"God Never Gonna Let You Down"
"God Never Gonna Run Around and Hurt You"
"God Hates Kittens"
"ME"
"I was promised donuts"

http://laughingsquid.com/san-franciscos-answer-to-westboro-baptist-church/

Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY | April 8, 2010 10:12 AM

At the University of Rochester, student-led counter-protesters used bed sheets strung between long poles to surround and block the WBC'ers from public view. Since they kept their visual barricade at the proscribed distance, the Phelpseses were powerless to stop them. You'd have needed to be 12 feet tall to see the God Hates Fags signage.

Posted by: Maslab | April 8, 2010 10:18 AM

I never thought I'd see Even Evil Has Standards applied to this aspect of real life. Wow!

Someone really needs to turn this into a de-motivational poster...

Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | April 8, 2010 10:28 AM

@Moggie #3: According to Wikipedia, the ".bz" domain was and still is marketed as a "business" domain, predating the ".biz" domain. I suspect the KKK just didn't want to pay a squatter for their domain name.

Posted by: ambulocetacean | April 8, 2010 10:35 AM

Wow. I never realised that Phelps used to be one of the good guys. So sad that he's gone insane.

Posted by: scooterKPFT | April 8, 2010 10:36 AM

KOPD @ 47

Yup,

those westboro maniacs have always been crazy but they used to direct their rage at more legitimate targets like racist assholes in Kansas, back in the day./

Posted by: Goheels | April 8, 2010 10:38 AM

Anyone else down for prank calling the KKK?

Posted by: Richard Wolford | April 8, 2010 10:54 AM

The Westboro loons are in my home town today, Charleston, WV; they're actually about 10 minutes from where I work. The WV Atheists are wanting to have a counter-demonstration about 30 minutes after the Westboro loons do their little number. Man, I despise those baptist fuckers, I wanted to go and hang with my own signs but I have to pick up the kids today, and I'm not bringing them anywhere near those nut jobs.

Posted by: Andreas Johansson | April 8, 2010 11:09 AM

@#64: He hates puns too.

Posted by: SteveM | April 8, 2010 11:50 AM

If I understand URL's correctly (and I'm not sure that I do), if the KKK's domain .bz was a country code, shouldn't it be followed by ".co" or some such? That is, someone earlier mentioned that ".bz" is actually "biz", not Belize. And if so, is Belize country code really ".bz"? is Colombia's ".co" ? So much confusion...

Posted by: Kobra | April 8, 2010 11:52 AM

@65: Indeed. Such transgressions come with steep punishments.

Posted by: James F | April 8, 2010 11:56 AM

How often does the opportunity present itself to share this:

Just Found a Red Sock in the Laundry (While Washing My Ku Klux Klan Sheet)

Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | April 8, 2010 12:15 PM

@SteveM #67: This is the article I referred to.

Posted by: skylyre | April 8, 2010 12:16 PM

From Bride of Shrek: "Arseknob and the bitchclam". Hey, two new words for my vocabulary! It takes a special kind of disgust to get words like that.

Posted by: hznfrst | April 8, 2010 12:33 PM

If Phelps and the Klan ever do confront each other directly, I want to be there to sell firearms to both sides!

Posted by: varlo1930 | April 8, 2010 12:40 PM

Re the statement (#47) that Phelps was instrumental in taking down "the Jim Crow laws in Topeka," I have to wonder. I lived in Topeka in the pre-Phelps days (the 1930 in my name is my birth year) and while there was bigotry, some of which doubtless persists today, and policies that supported that bigotry, I at no time heard that they claimed any justification by law.

Two possible exceptions were the all-white status of the Gage Park swimming pool and, of course, Brown v. Board. Even that latter is misunderstood. If you believe that blacks were not allowed to attend school with whites you are only marginally correct. Grades K-6 were indeed segregated, but that policy did not extend to junior high or the (then) single high school. It was far more complicated.

Classes at the latter two levels were totally integrated, but in what puzzled me than as now, blacks and whites could compete on integrated football and track teams and, I believe, baseball. but not in basketball. (No interracial dribbling allowed?)

Now well over a half century later my memory may have been impaired by age, but I strongly suspect that any victories the virulently odious Phelps may have had in court were either against individuals, not the city, or were gained against governmental units in suburban areas, not the city of Topeka.

Posted by: o-p-e | April 8, 2010 12:47 PM

Rabid,
I would see if there are some FSM followers at VT. They have staged a few counter protest, and you get pirates.

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine | April 8, 2010 12:55 PM

You know, I'm thinking that what the next Phelps protest needs is drag queens. Is Sister Boom Boom booked?

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 8, 2010 1:06 PM

And remember, as Pierce's link highlights, the WBC thrives on cash made from lawsuits.

Posted by: mmelliott01 | April 8, 2010 1:27 PM

Oh look! the KKK has an online store. Is it too late for the big spring White Sale?

Posted by: Aratina Cage | April 8, 2010 1:40 PM

Oh, pleaseohpleaseohplease let the Phelpstards try to picket a Klan rally!
-Antiochus Epimanes #19

I wouldn't put it past them after watching them picket Jerry Prevo's church, which is on par with the Phelps Clan and has a KKK mindset minus the physical violence (he still commands plenty of intimidation and political violence).

Posted by: MrFire | April 8, 2010 1:55 PM

@18:

Damn it, which side should we root for!?!?!?!

Mutually-assured destruction would be the only satisfying outcome for me. Not an atom left of either.

@46:

Fred Phelps was one of the good guys of the civil right movement in Kansas, back when that took some courage.

Right around the time he was almost beating his kids to death.

Posted by: blf | April 8, 2010 2:03 PM

The real question is this, which group hates the collection of people at this blog more, the KKK or the Phelps clan.

Graeme Bird, who is a complete collection of nuts.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | April 8, 2010 2:04 PM

Re the whole debate about whether Phelps is racist: I suspect it's futile to look for any kind of consistency or philosophical coherence in his public statements. From the online account by his estranged son, Nate Phelps, it seems that Fred Phelps is an unbalanced, abusive control freak. It looks to me like his religious nuttery, and vicious hatred of everyone who isn't part of his crazy little sect, are just symptoms of his serious psychological problems.

He also seems to me to be a pathological attention-seeker. The amount of media coverage his protests receive, and the way he seems to tailor his public statements to be offensive to as many people as possible, support this view. In a way, the counter-protests and public condemnations are probably giving him what he wants: namely, attention. Given his Calvinist theology, he isn't aiming to win converts, and he certainly isn't going to be put off by the fact that everyone hates him. He believes he and his family are the predestined elect and the only two Christians, and he expects - and even wants - to be reviled by the secular world.

Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | April 8, 2010 2:29 PM

KKK is split into numerous factions that disagree with each other

Guess they're still Democrats. *rimshot*

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | April 8, 2010 2:36 PM

Only twue Chwistians know twue wuv.

Posted by: Louis | April 8, 2010 2:45 PM

I say we dig a whacking great pit, adorn with spikes and assorted sharp objects as interior decoration dictates, and {ahem} "invite" the Phelps Phunsters and the KKK to duke it out in a Battle Royale.

Last bigot standing gets a prize.

Ok the prize is being impaled on a splintery pole, but it's still a prize dammit, don't be ungrateful.

Louis

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem | April 8, 2010 2:54 PM

And yeah,Phelps ain`t racist ,he hates everyone.

He is a white supremacist who hates black and Jewish people specifically. Read the thread.

Posted by: David B | April 8, 2010 3:18 PM

Since no-one else can find a good word for Phelps, I will try to provide some fairness and balance.

He has enough integrity to not just quote bible verses that are cherry picked to be nice.

He demonstrates the cultic nature of his own group, and, by extension, other similar groups.

He gives Christianity a bad name.

So he's not all bad.

Apart from that he does seem to be a super shit, though.

I've come across the moving account of one of his sons who managed to escape the cult in a number of places, including here IIRC.

Posted by: generallydissatisfied.myopenid.com | April 8, 2010 3:30 PM

It's truly a special day when the lowest of the low rejects the lowest of the lowest of the low. I'm smiling now.

Posted by: Standard Curve | April 8, 2010 4:00 PM

James (#49),

That is hilarious. I think I would have to do similar if I see them around. I'm thinking my sign would be, "The cake is a lie."

Posted by: IslandBrewer | April 8, 2010 4:08 PM

RE: The comments about whether Phelps is/was a racist and/or was one of the good guys.

According to his estranged son Nate's Website, if you read his entire speech, his father actually did seem to be racist, and his civil rights lawsuits were, at the time, a big source of revenue for him.

Posted by: IslandBrewer | April 8, 2010 4:11 PM

LinkFAIL!

http://natephelps.com/10801.html

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/SaqGVG0xvJEQVwURVamS3DTCdvov0BLhXK1jOsYPPJQ-#b4893 | April 8, 2010 4:48 PM

What I want to know is, Who among us had the courage to check out the KKK web page in the first place?

My surfing has taken me pretty far afield in the past, even to places I don't want to admit having visited. But it has never occurred to me to search for the official website of the KKK LLC.

I'm glad to see the site is hosted in Belize, though. I'd hate it if they had a .edu or a .org domain.

So I guess the KKK LLC isn't liable when one of their members burns a cross or lynches someone? How convi-i-i-ient.

MikeM

Posted by: DeusExNihilum | April 8, 2010 5:41 PM

The klan probably don't like WBC because Fred Phelps spent 20 years campaigning for the Civil Rights of African Americans.

Posted by: Sauceress | April 8, 2010 6:36 PM

#31 Rabid Child

Any suggestions?
p.s. The only organized counter-protests I have heard of are from religious organizations and I don't feel like singing "Kumbaya" to these assholes.

#81 o-p-e

I would see if there are some FSM followers at VT. They have staged a few counter protest, and you get pirates.

Like this recent one
usc pastafarians counter-protest of westboro baptist church demonstration

Virginia Tech Pastafarians do have a Facebook page but (to me....don't use Facebook) it looks fairly inactive or perhaps it's just a recent effort.

Posted by: Athena | April 8, 2010 6:48 PM

Remember the definition of a fanatic? "A person who unconsciously overcompensates for a secret doubt". If Fred hates gays...

Posted by: Rabid Child | April 8, 2010 7:33 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions.

@ Sauceress

Yeah I found that link too, but it seems to be inactive. The most recent FSM and VT connection that I can find seems to be from a few days after the shooting in '07.

Posted by: ambulocetacean | April 8, 2010 8:39 PM

KOPD, Strange Gods, IslandBrewer,

Thanks for the links. I'll have to read some of the longer ones later. It does seem clear, though, that Phelps has always been a total lunatic asshole.

Posted by: jidashdee | April 8, 2010 9:16 PM

My image of this family was just shattered by the rationality of Nate Phelps.

Check out his recent interview on Canajun TV.

Posted by: Enkidu | April 8, 2010 10:10 PM

KOOKFIGHT!

Posted by: randydudek | April 9, 2010 12:17 AM

Sigh. I guess this is the wrong venue for a White Sale joke...

I just haven't gotten back to this thread in a good long while and had a lot of catching up to do. I LOLZed at your joke. Honest.

Posted by: Steven Dunlap | April 9, 2010 1:33 AM

Does this remind anyone else of that scene from The Life of Brian where they are talking about all the different anti-Roman resistance groups? Someone asks "Where's the 'Judean People's Front?' then someone says, "oh, look, he's over there," then they all stand up and shout at him "Splitter!"

Anyone else think of this?

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | April 9, 2010 5:10 AM

Seriously,

From my previous personal stoushes with them I can tell you Fred is bug fuck nuts but Shirley, the evil spawn, is on a whole 'nother level. The woman is totally rabid, certifiably fucking insane. She is so totally into her father and her obsession runs with him runs at such a deep level I had to seriously question the nature of their relationship at one stage.

Both Fred and her have put the WBC equivalent of a Fatwah on me because it shat them off no end that when they were threatening to do the demo thing at Heath Ledger's memorial in Aust ( they figure god hates him because he's like an actor and all and did Brokeback Moutain)that I campaigned our Dept of Immigration to designate them as "unsuitable persons" for a tourist visa.

Fred is easy to argue with because, no matter what his past, he's now hitting the senility button and goes nuclear easily. Shirley on the other hand is fucking scary. She's intelligent, knows her law and is seriously articulate. She's also a total fucking hypocrite that simultaneously preaches women are basically the shitstain of Adam and should be subjugated and beaten by men yet enjoys the privledges of a legal education and her own professional career herself. She goes apeshit of you ask her about her hypocrisy regarding her famous "god hates unwed mothers" sign and the fact her own first child was born prior to marriage.

Bitchclam.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | April 9, 2010 8:41 AM

BoS, you have a lot of courage, facing down these crazy people in person. I've never encountered them IRL (as I recall, they were specifically denied entry to the UK by the Home Office when they wanted to protest here).

Incidentally, did you get my email the other day?

Posted by: Enkidu | April 9, 2010 11:08 AM

Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

Well worth watching . . . ya gotta get to the "Sodomobile."

Posted by: cjd | April 9, 2010 1:58 PM

As a side note about these folks. Don't EVER, EVER, EVER physically touch these folks. You can scream at them, argue with them, stick out your tongue, etc. They are all lawyers who are looking to sue, ie. how they make their money, at the drop of a hat.

Posted by: fiddler | April 9, 2010 2:09 PM

@ Rabid Child and anyone else that may find themselves near phelps and gang:
I personally think that these people did a wonderfully inventive and important thing. Should you ever want a way to act against the wbc, try this:
http://friendlyatheist.com/2010/03/29/using-westboro-baptist-church-as-a-fundraiser/

Posted by: Dragoness | April 10, 2010 8:01 PM

Hello!

Our local atheist group attended the events on april 8 at both the capital building& the WVU one.
we had lovely signs.
non hurtful nor deameaning, only
encouraging & uplifting while we all smiled smiled SMILED!

We offered those not in our
group a number of different more "loving" & "upbeat signs" to replace those signs
we ran into "WV HATES WBC" or "WHY COME WHERE YOU ARE HATED?"

i felt that was not the message to send, though it was certainly represented.

the closer people got the measly two members of the WBC, the more fervent my concerns were about no one toughing them.

imnshDo, next time we get the opportunity to protest hate groups as well backed as the WBC is, i say we have a pig roast in their honour.
it surely will be fun & confuse the heck out of the WBC!!!

lololol

Posted by: Dragoness | April 10, 2010 11:30 PM

O!
---> } : 8=} ) dragoness is surely blushing!