…and this is a 
There are no atheists allowed in Catholic schools.
A teacher at a Catholic HS in Iowa was fired because she answered a poll about personal beliefs in a way her employer didn't like. Apparently, Abby Nurre was surfing around Facebook last summer (before she started her job at the Catholic school) and decided to answer a poll question she found. The poll asked whether she believed in God, angels or miracles - she answered "no".
Now she's out of a job because, as the school board put it, she violated "a policy that prohibits employees from advocating principles contrary to the dogmatic and moral teaching of the church."
That's a rather low threshold they've got — clicking on a poll is now "advocating"? I wonder if pharyngulating is a venial or a mortal sin…
Comments
Posted by: Ben Goren
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May 28, 2010 1:51 PM
If secularists aren’t allowed to teach in Catholic schools, then perhaps Catholics shouldn’t be allowed to teach in secular schools.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
Posted by: Kathy Orlinsky
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May 28, 2010 1:52 PM
I would have thought a Catholic school would have asked those sorts of questions before hiring teachers. If they never asked, then they are clearly OK with the fact that some of their teachers might not agree with their doctrine. In that case, they'd be totally unjustified in firing the teacher. However, if she had signed some sort of statement of faith upon being hired, would they have grounds to fire her for lying?
Not that either case excuses the sneaky way they went about it.
Posted by: NitricAcid
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May 28, 2010 1:52 PM
Lesson One: Never admit to your boss that you have a FaceBook account.
Posted by: Zeno
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May 28, 2010 1:55 PM
True confession: I once taught and 8th grade Catholic catechism class (that's like Sunday school for Protestants). When we did the unit on Genesis, I made sure my students got the "billions of years" straight and gave them the theistic evolution story that is still mainstream Catholicism. I was doing it as a favor to the pastor, who was a nice guy who had lost his catechism instructor at the last minute. It was my first teaching job and I was given a very free hand. However, I didn't bother telling Father I was by then an agnostic (and only five years away from abandoning the Church entirely).
I wonder. Whatever happened to those kids?
Posted by: Ben Goren
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May 28, 2010 1:56 PM
NtricAcid, that’s lesson 37.
Lesson one is, “Don’t work for asshats.”
Lesson two is, “If the only way to put food on the table is to work for asshats, put all of your non-work effort into remedying that situation.”
You should be able to work out most of the lesson plan from there.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
Posted by: Randomfactor
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May 28, 2010 1:57 PM
I have the same question, Zeno. Years & years ago, as a high school student, I took over a CCD class for several weekends when the regular instructor was out.
I'm pretty sure they're all at least agnostics by now...
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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May 28, 2010 2:00 PM
Doesn't seem like "advocating," but I'll bet that students and/or parents did end up seeing it and disapproving. Frankly, I'd be more likely to call it "Failbook" and say that it was a stupid thing for her to do, if she thought blabbing on Facebook wasn't going to have consequences.
Too bad, but if you're working for a system that doesn't allow non-theists, better shut up about your lack of belief in God.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: Perspexo
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May 28, 2010 2:00 PM
Sadly in Ireland, where the catholic church run 92% of our schools, all teachers applying to a catholic school are asked at their job interviews whether they are religious and will they have any any problems following a catholic ethos. All this in state funded schools, sigh!
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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May 28, 2010 2:11 PM
Funny that. Over here you have to show that you don't have a history of inappropriate interactions with children in order to teach.Posted by: llewelly
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May 28, 2010 2:20 PM
Glen Davidson | May 28, 2010 2:00 PM:
That's right. It's far better to remain in the closet, enabling fearful theists to live out their lives thinking they don't know any atheists, especially not any that might be good or helpful people.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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May 28, 2010 2:20 PM
I'm pretty sure pharyngulation would fall into the mortal camp...
Posted by: Egnu Cledge
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May 28, 2010 2:20 PM
In the article, she claims that she is not an atheist, and that her opinions have changed since answering the facebook poll. So, apparently even the taint* of having once been an atheist is enough to get you fired from a Catholic school.
*heh...atheist taint.
Posted by: Jérôme ^
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May 28, 2010 2:20 PM
Well, their loss.
Let Catholic schools only hire doctrinary teachers. Worse, abusive Catholic priests. Then they will soon be out of business.
Let's only hope that this particular teacher soon finds some better work in a more tolerant place.
Posted by: Newfie
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May 28, 2010 2:21 PM
The Iowa Inquisition - brought to you by Facebook
Posted by: Egnu Cledge
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May 28, 2010 2:23 PM
Why are they even teaching math, anyway? Everybody knows math is atheistic.
Posted by: NewEnglandBob
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May 28, 2010 2:27 PM
Its a blessing in the world of the FSM. It gets you the reward of...ummm...I'll have to get back to you on that.Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 2:29 PM
I agree with Glen here a bit at #7...
While I of course think it's stupid and repugnant, it's also not surprising that a private institution would desire to dismiss an employee that they saw as potentially contradicting their core teachings.
If you had a job working as a public outreach representative for the Republican Party, you might find yourself out of a job if it was found that you made public statements (on FaceBook or anywhere else) regarding your strong liberal ideology.
Eh... I'm not sure I love that analogy, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a better one at the moment... I blame it on being almost happy hour on the Friday before a long weekend.
Posted by: steve
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May 28, 2010 2:29 PM
I'm sure that's in the same category as denying the holy spirit.
Posted by: mattheath
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May 28, 2010 2:32 PM
An employer sticking their nose so far into someones business outside of work is seriously nasty. An employer requiring employees to waive free-speech right in cases that don't directly effect their ability to do their jobs is plainly beyond the realms of decent behaviour.
Posted by: roguemedicblog
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May 28, 2010 2:33 PM
For you? After they excommunicate you the first time, further excommunication probably loses its intimidation value. Besides, the indigestion from eating all of those babies probably causes more distress than some ritual shunning.
Posted by: Victor
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May 28, 2010 2:35 PM
And, of course, anyone that dares say anything about the situation will be labeled an "angry atheist".
Posted by: W. H. Heydt
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May 28, 2010 2:36 PM
And just in time for a posting involving a Facebook poll...there's a poll on CBS web site that needs attention:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/28/national/main6526938.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel
Underlying story is about a very large cross be refurbished, partly with state money.
--W. H. Heydt
Old Used Programmer
Posted by: jbowen42
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May 28, 2010 2:37 PM
I find it slightly upsetting that the Des Moines Register article doesn’t have a poll.
Posted by: mattheath
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May 28, 2010 2:37 PM
If you were a politically representative, yes, and had Miss Nurre been a nun that would be a reasonable comparison. If the GOP only hired cleaners who agreed not to express positions contrary to the party programme, that would be a situation like this.Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 2:38 PM
Lest anyone think that my #17 is in any way a defense of this sort of behavior by the catholic school... it's not...
I'm just not surprised by it, is all.
Posted by: Ranger
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May 28, 2010 2:38 PM
I`m not sure how large the difference is between Catholic schools in the US & Canada, but my experience in a Catholic High School (in Ontario) was quite positive.
Despite Religion class being mandatory for all grades, the class was more like a history class than a daily mass. The teacher was honest & intelligent, and I never once caught her teaching in a manner that wasn`t strictly professional. It was the sort of religious education that I would gladly endorse; purely factual & historical.
My science teacher for my senior year was excellent as well, with books from Dawkins & Sagan proudly displayed on the bookshelf.
And my Philosophy teacher, don`t get me started. I doubt I`d be an atheist today if it wasn`t for his influence.
Posted by: SEF
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May 28, 2010 2:41 PM
That's not true in the UK. The headmistress of one local Catholic public (ie private) school is an atheist (according to my insider informant - who seemed to regard it as reliable common knowledge arising from the person themselves rather than being some scurrilous schoolyard rumour).
Posted by: Die Anyway
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May 28, 2010 2:43 PM
I've "outed" myself on Facebook. My page says right up front that I'm an atheist. I'm not looking for a job at any religious facilities so I'm not worried on that point, and as llewelly points out in #10, I figure I'm a nice enough guy that some of my religious friends may realize that atheists aren't really baby-eaters (no matter how much we may joke about it).
QOTD:
"Humans didn't fight their way to the top of the food chain just to become vegetarian."
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 2:47 PM
Well... I picked the position I did for a reason...
A teacher in a catholic school isn't equivalent to a janitor. A teacher has a unique capacity for shaping the thought processes and beliefs of the kids they are teaching... to a catholic school, an atheist teacher could be seen (by both school administrators and parents) as a legitimate threat to the core religious teachings that the school is expected to provide.
Similarly, a community outreach representative for a political party is meant to influence the political leanings of a community in line with the core beliefs of that political party. Having someone with directly opposing political views could be seen as problematic.
Again, this is not offered as a defense, just a simple reason why I find it so unsurprising.
Posted by: chaseacross
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May 28, 2010 2:54 PM
When will people learn? Don't put anything out into the ether that you don't want advertised. Excepting financial information (which is more rigorously guarded), everything you transmit is liable to be connected back to you. Act accordingly.
Posted by: W. H. Heydt
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May 28, 2010 2:56 PM
Re #28...
Vegetarians eat vegetables.
I'm a Humanitarian.
Vegetables aren't food.
Vegetables are what food eats.
--W. H. Heydt
Old Used Programmer
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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May 28, 2010 3:10 PM
It's only problematic if they admit it. I very much doubt all of the teachers and priests I had believed in their own snake oil.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 3:12 PM
Brownian -
Right... which was exactly the scenario I presented in my original #17.
Posted by: frog, Inc.
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May 28, 2010 3:18 PM
@Celtic #29: Math teacher, dummy!
The woman taught math -- one field that is guaranteed to have no implications for Catholic theology and the indoctrination of the youth, unless someone has found that Goedel undecidability is somehow anti-doctrinaire. And if they're teaching that in 8th grade, I'd be damn impressed with their math program.
Again, this is not offered as a defense, just a simple reason why I find it so unsurprising.
It's not "unsurprising" for the substantive excuse you try to bring up -- but just as an example of the stultifying stupidity of the St. Edmunds parish, which is impressive even by Catholic standards.
The woman could be a raving Satanist, and as long as she just teaches math, she'd be appropriate for the job.
No, the reason for the firing is that her very existence is a "bad example" for the youth -- not for direct indoctrination purposes, as you pretend, but because by being a "respected person" she's an example that not all non-theists are lunatic child-eaters.
They want to keep their heads in the sand -- their children's heads. And then they're surprised that they've raised victims.
Posted by: bonJovi2
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May 28, 2010 3:19 PM
Hey y'all
A parochial school is not only wise but obedient to its founding principles when it acts according to its wisdom.
I would no more want an atheist to be teaching me biology, mathematics or reading if I was attending a parochial Catholic school.
1. My folks wouldn't approve.
2. It isn't kosher.
3. Certain Catholic priests & monks were awesome scientists world renown.
4. Adults who change their philosophy and worldviews flippantly shouldn't be teaching in a parochial school.
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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May 28, 2010 3:21 PM
From our Catholic school system teacher application:
No wonder the Church works so hard to insist that race, religion, color, sex, national origin, and the rest are totally related to one's ability to perform the duties of a position. I mean, a belief in the invisible sky fairy is totally part of effective mathematics instruction. And a good math teacher never has oral sex. Only the religion teachers get to be pervy atheists. Why are you guys being so judgment?
Posted by: Blondin
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May 28, 2010 3:23 PM
Meanwhile, up north in Canader...
Here's an interesting precedent that was used in a recent case of a lesbian music teacher who was suspended for outing herself on FB.
Apparently it's okay for non-catholics to work for a catholic school board as long as they get to dictate your personal life and relationships.
Posted by: raven
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May 28, 2010 3:28 PM
It shows. You have problems writing coherent English sentences.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 3:29 PM
I beg your pardon...
Don't be obtuse. You think most of the parents of the kids in that school would agree with that sentiment? You think that doesn't matter to the school?
Whatever... I never used the word "indoctrination"... but I went to catholic school and I can tell you that indoctrination and religious teaching were pervasive and religious discussion was a part of every class. No, religion isn't part of any specific math education, but if you went to Catholic school (and maybe you did but just went to a special one where this wasn't the case), you know that no class was immune from theological infringement.
Bottom line, that this teacher was an atheist was seen as a threat by both parents and school administrators. That they took action to remove her as a result, understanding the "stultifying stupidity" behind decisions such as this regularly made by christian run institutions, I remain unsurprised.
Posted by: Frank b
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May 28, 2010 3:29 PM
Fort Dodge, that's southern Iowa. I think it would be less likely to happen in our local catholic school because we are in a college town. But not that less likely. I've heard too many stories about our local one.
Posted by: raven
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May 28, 2010 3:31 PM
Not sure why anyone is surprised. This was just a witch hunt.
The Catholic church needs to practice their old skills. If our civilization collapses, they won't have to go through the whole recruitment and training procedures again and can hit the ground running.
Posted by: creating trons
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May 28, 2010 3:32 PM
Hey guys, I think I found one.
bonJovi2 @ 35:
"4. Adults who change their philosophy and worldviews flippantly shouldn't be teaching in a parochial school."
WTF? flippantly? Really?
(this outta be fun to watch)
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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May 28, 2010 3:32 PM
Wise no, obedient sure. But that's the one thing Catholic organizations are good at. Obedience. The wisdom, not so much.
This is my choice for the dumbest thing I've read today. The factuality of the subject matter doesn't change depending on who is teaching it. Math is still math, biology is still biology. Problem is, many religious people choose to not teach the reality of many things because they don't march lock step with their faith.
Well your folks are morons.
So are you Catholic or Jewish? And I had no idea Kosher extended to learning and teaching.
Which has fuck all to do with an Atheist teaching math or biology or anything.
So all atheists change their "philosophy" flippantly? Or is it anyone who realizes the stupidity of subscribing to the Catholic faith the problem?
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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May 28, 2010 3:34 PM
How do you make kosher teacher? I bet it has something to do with the way he or she is slaughtered.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 3:36 PM
RBDC -
Running a close second to this.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkRi-D8qS7DSpRdFdWNHeesiAPsTd_LLGc
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May 28, 2010 3:36 PM
For those of you who want a poll to Pharyngulate, the local TV station (not the local newspaper) has one:
Catholic Teacher Fired for Facebook God Vote
"Was the school board justified in their firing of the teacher for her Facebook vote?
- yes
- no
- don't know"
Currently, it's running at 49% saying "no", but there are only 550 total votes so far.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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May 28, 2010 3:38 PM
wtf
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 3:39 PM
told ya...
Posted by: Kausik Datta
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May 28, 2010 3:43 PM
Yes, you did! Good job. I can hear the "Nom, Nom, Nom..." from a distance. :)
Apart from what the Rev BDC pointed out, that sentence is incomprehensible word salad. To break it up into clauses, "A parochial school is ... wise ... when it acts according to its wisdom" and "A parochial school is ... obedient to its principles when it acts according to its wisdom" - WTF do those even mean?
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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May 28, 2010 3:44 PM
Bonholler:
Wise? No. Religion of any stripe does not confer wisdom. Obedient? You betcha. The catholics excel at enforcing obedience - they have generations of abusive behaviour backing that up.
Well that's a load of idiocy. I get the distinct feeling you wouldn't do too well in those subjects. A person's personal beliefs don't enter into teaching those subjects.
What the fuck does this have to do with anything?
A catholic school probably isn't the place for an observant Jew.
And? Certain atheists were (and are) awesome scientists of world renown. (Going by your writing ability, you need to get off the net and pay attention in class.)
Flippantly? You're in on the thought processes of every single adult world wide who comes to a certain philosophical stance? Thought isn't static throughout a person's lifetime, ya know. At least, it shouldn't be. A whole lot of catholic priests and nuns are atheists, why many of them even admit it!
Here's a thought for you - you're an idiot.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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May 28, 2010 3:48 PM
Celtic_Evolution:
:raises eyebrows: Okaaaaaaaaay. I think that one wins the day's WTF award.
Posted by: dinkum
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May 28, 2010 3:49 PM
nigelTheBold -
That, and the garlic.
Posted by: Richard Wolford
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May 28, 2010 3:50 PM
You're parents aren't experts, so their opinion amounts to both jack and shit.
It's not food.
Irrelevant, certain atheists are awesome scientists world renown, so what's your point? You're simply pointing out cognitive dissonance, as beliefs break down pretty quickly when subjected to scientific analysis.
Nope, because one should never, ever, ever change their views about anything. By gawd, my grandpappy said the world was flat and by gawd we're a gonna keep it that way.
Dipshit.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/okJN9ABk1eh1hpOE.HCbIYsToV4Owg--#f7d03
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May 28, 2010 3:51 PM
There's a real legal question here as to why a religious school can fire someone. Do the constitutional protections that exist for religion exist for lack of religion? In other words, what if the school had discovered that the teacher had been a "closet" Jew and not an atheist?
Posted by: Duncan
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May 28, 2010 3:51 PM
How exactly would someone's ability to teach mathematics be affected by their belief in god(s) or lack thereof? 1+1=2, with or without God.
Posted by: jbowen42
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May 28, 2010 3:54 PM
Frank @40:
I don't consider Fort Dodge to be southern Iowa, even though it sometimes seems like it should be.
Posted by: garrett.severson
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May 28, 2010 4:08 PM
Current SCOTUS case law (at least, last I read any opinions about this) treats atheism and other forms of non-theism as a religious group that they call "secular humanism." It's kind of unclear as to the extent to which secular humanism counts as a religion, since it doesn't count under the establishment clause, but it seems to count under free exercise. Since prohibitions against firing people for religious views are focused on protecting the free exercise of the individual, it's likely that it would count in this context.Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/HZykFY1gh.1I1IrxVTU4Ce_iluH_nItn.Sk-#78975
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May 28, 2010 4:09 PM
@54:
Constitutional don't apply. This is a civil rights issue.
More likely The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is relevant.
Posted by: startlingmoniker
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May 28, 2010 4:10 PM
@#22--
That cross is here in Southern Illinois. The local regional rag has been shit-stirring about it lately, throwing the word "atheist" around in much the same manner as you'd say "pedophile babysitter". The comments at their article are so sad that it's beyond belief-- Southern Illinois is so backwards it's amazing.
http://www.thesouthern.com/news/local/article_f2fd7d56-6559-11df-b6e7-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story
Posted by: David Marjanović
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May 28, 2010 4:13 PM
Lesson One: if you have a Facebook account, your boss will find it.
Posted by: Rob
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May 28, 2010 4:15 PM
I'm reminded of the colleague (I'm a teacher) who got appointed as head of a Catholic school, after we worked together in Saudi Arabia. The interviewing priest leaned forward and asked, "John, you're seven years in a heathen country. Has your faith faltered at all?" John thumped the table and replied, "Not at all, Father," before muttering under his breath, "What F-----g faith?"
He got the job and he's been there ever since.
Posted by: Duncan
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May 28, 2010 4:23 PM
I wish I could say the UK didn't have similar laws, but I can't. The right of schools of religious character to employ on the basis of religious belief is enshrined in law.
Posted by: jcmartz.myopenid.com
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May 28, 2010 4:24 PM
Generally speaking, if the church encouraged (critical) thinking from it members it would not have such a large following (about 1 billion).
Posted by: myislanduniverse
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May 28, 2010 4:52 PM
My question is whether a parochial atheist school would go unchallenged legally, were it to enforce a similar requirement of their faculty.
Additionally and to that end, would it be preferable for the teacher to sue the school board for wrongful termination or to take it gracefully and maturely in an effort to demonstrate to her former students that you don't have to be a Christian to be kind and good-hearted, nor do you have to be an atheist to be vengeful and capricious?
Posted by: Aquaria
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May 28, 2010 4:53 PM
If you had a job working as a public outreach representative for the Republican Party, you might find yourself out of a job if it was found that you made public statements (on FaceBook or anywhere else) regarding your strong liberal ideology.
Funny you mention that. A GOP candidate here in TX wanted to hire me as a speechwriter (I lived next door to one of the kahunas on his campaign). For shits and grins, I came up with some sample speeches and submitted them to the campaign.
The candidate called me for an interview. I went, for the lulz. Got the big handshake, big pol smile, love the samples of speeches, when could I start?
I said I wouldn't accept the job, and why. Namely that I didn't believe in one splinter of the Republican platform, and I just couldn't lie that way.
He got this look of utter confusion, and said, "So? I want to hire you. I'll pay you [insert outrageous $ amount here--well, outrageous for such a campaign]"
I was still laughing when I left his office.
Point: The GOP might not be a good example.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution
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May 28, 2010 5:01 PM
Heh - point taken, Aquaria...
But let me carry that out a bit further... as a speechwriter you are relatively behind the scenes and unknown... as long as you keep pumping out the specious bullcrap this GOP wank wants you to, you're fine... even if you proudly declare your liberal bias on FaceBook.
But let's say that you were not a behind-the-scenes speechwriter, but a local spokesperson for the RNC (obviously YOU wouldn't be, but assuming you had no moral compass and would continue to lie about who you are and what you believe just for the money). Do you think the republican party wouldn't be ushering you out the door upon seeing blatantly liberal commentary on your FB account or blog?
Posted by: rob
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May 28, 2010 5:26 PM
i guess reading Phayngula is a sin. cause every time i do i go blind and my palms get hairy.
Posted by: Gorg
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May 28, 2010 6:05 PM
The original article also mentions that the school is fighting the teacher's unemployment claims. Guess they wanted to be super extra-classy about this whole debacle.
Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées
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May 28, 2010 6:16 PM
Apparently she also belonged to Atheist Nexus and she claims her privacy settings were such that students and other teachers didn't have access to her wall.
We all know how reliable Facebook's privacy settings are, now don't we?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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May 28, 2010 6:20 PM
Frankly, I'd be more likely to call it "Failbook" and say that it was a stupid thing for her to do, if she thought blabbing on Facebook wasn't going to have consequences.
all of this discussion about her being wrong for expressing herself on a facebook account rings the *blame the victim* bell in my head.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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May 28, 2010 6:23 PM
... if she started teaching IN HER CATHOLIC SCHOOL that atheism is the bestest, then, maybe you all would have a legitimate point.
I'm sorry, but I find myself seriously wondering if there is a developing doublestandard here.
Posted by: lasthussar
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May 28, 2010 7:44 PM
I keep trying to work out what would happen if any organisation on this 'socialist hellhole' had done this. I keep getting the answer "About this time next year they would be explaining the budget deficit due to the unfair dismisal compensation payment and associated costs for being the loser in the court case."
Posted by: a.human.ape
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May 28, 2010 7:50 PM
I already knew Catholic schools suck, but what the heck is this?
In November, Nurre posted a comment to an online discussion forum, Atheist Nexus. In her post, she provided a link to a New York Times article that, as she described it, indicated the government had spent $2.3 million on prayer research in the past 10 years.
Besides the fact this is crazy and a disgraceful waste of taxpayer money, I thought we had a secular government here.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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May 28, 2010 8:00 PM
NCAM. Brought about by a woo infested Senator Harkin. And funny how the alternative stuff works not better than Placebo, and maybe worse...Posted by: ravenkatie
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May 28, 2010 8:49 PM
She didn't "just click on a poll"-- she did also post to a atheist discussion forum if you click through to the original article. That's a little different then just clicking yes or no to a facebook poll. And I believe firmly in freedom of -and from- religion, but it was a Catholic school- I can see why they were at least upset. It was a PRIVATE CATHOLIC school that fired her, not a public secular one. But I think they should have just suspended her or disciplined her, not fired her.
Posted by: MadScientist
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May 28, 2010 8:49 PM
Th headline is misleading. The teacher said she didn't believe in fairies - so she is not a catholic teacher even though she may have taught in a catholic school. At any rate I hope the kiddies all see what a goddamned shit of a religion they've got for getting rid of that teacher.
Posted by: MadScientist
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May 28, 2010 8:57 PM
Oh, since people have their war stories about teaching in catlick schools, I'll add mine. I never worked as a full-time lecturer at university but as a scientist some colleagues occasionally ask me to do a few lectures. One such lecture was at a catlick university. One of the sheep seemed upset that something that I said didn't agree with something he'd been told in the past, so he puts his hand up and asks a question. My response was something like "that's just superstitious bullshit and has nothing to do with reality, in fact the claim contradicts what we observe". So the poor guy who asked me to do this guest lecture got in trouble - I thought it was pretty funny how he got the sermon for something I did; he didn't seem to see what was so funny about it though.
Posted by: Stephanie
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May 28, 2010 9:33 PM
no atheists in catholic school? I beg to differ! they're great at graduating atheists.
Posted by: SlantedScience
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May 28, 2010 10:32 PM
Her mistake was in choosing the wrong pointless poll to answer.
She should have gone for the one "Using minors for sexual gratification is: A)disgusting abuse, what the hell is wrong with you for even asking that?; B)don't know; C)what would Jesus do? Well I'm pretty sure he'd get a 12-year old to fellate him so that's good enough for me."
She'd be the first ever female pope before the month was out.
Posted by: arrakis
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May 28, 2010 10:35 PM
I went to a Catholic high school. We had plenty of non-Catholics as teachers, and I'm pretty sure that a number of them were agnostics and that one was an atheist.
Among students, the ratio between believers and non-believers was about 3:2 in favor of woo. Those who disagreed with Catholic dogma were not quiet about it, either. It made for some very interesting conversations in theology class.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/7IW3Q_E3tsKloSlnYxkYxNayMxiHG7hu.xyaWoTqcg--#e7f3e
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May 28, 2010 10:55 PM
@ : Die Anyway,
Can't we also claim transubstantiation? Aren't those babies just whole wheat matzos?
plumberbob
Posted by: randydudek
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May 28, 2010 11:20 PM
As a former manager and a current employee, I know that any of the companies I have worked for in the past five years have had a very clear cut "What you say on social networks can come back and get you fired" policy.
NOT THAT I'M SAYING IT'S RIGHT, but at least in my circle of knowledge, it's understood that online posts are grounds for job termination. So while I see where you are coming from with the 'blame the victim' thought, I can't quite agree.
Posted by: Frank b
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May 28, 2010 11:25 PM
Bowen #56, (facepalm) You're right. I always get Fort Dodge and Fort Madison confused. And it does seem that south goes in a northwestern direction.
Posted by: Perspexo
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May 28, 2010 11:31 PM
Well I must say I attribute my atheism to the education I received in catholic school. Nothing like transubstantiation to make you question the entire theist proposition.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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May 28, 2010 11:39 PM
Perspexo:
Oh yes. Especially when you're 8/9 years old and the damn 'host' decides to lodge itself in your throat and you sit contemplating choking to death in theological land: "if I don't do anything, I'll die, so that would be committing suicide, wouldn't it? If I reach in, down my throat to dislodge it, I'd be touching the 'host' and that's a mortal sin, so I'll go to hell forever, just like if I commit suicide by not doing anything and oh fuck, I want to live! Fuck god and the host he rode in on."
Posted by: Rorschach
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May 28, 2010 11:59 PM
It's just reality that whatever you say on the Internet that gets cached by the Google, or what you do on social networking sites, can come back to haunt you one day.It's just naive to think otherwise.
Of course they are assholes to fire the teacher, but this is something you just have to be aware of in 2010.
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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May 29, 2010 12:10 AM
@79 - Good job responding to another topic. (Seriously - not being snarky this time.) And I agree with you.
Posted by: cafeeine
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May 29, 2010 12:22 AM
In a similar vein, according to some Christian blogger, debating Bart Ehrman in a seminary is a bad idea, because it may make the students lose their faith
Posted by: Aquaria
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May 29, 2010 12:26 AM
as a speechwriter you are relatively behind the scenes and unknown...
In 1988, Peggy Noonan was as famous as Papa Bush for the brilliant "thousand points of light" speech she'd written for him (you don't have to agree with anything about it to realize it is brilliant).
And here are some other names that were pretty well known when they were speechwriters: JK Galbraith, Ted Sorensen, Pat Buchanan, Ben Stein, William Safire and Chris Matthews.
There are more, but that will do for now.
But let's say that you were not a behind-the-scenes speechwriter, but a local spokesperson for the RNC (obviously YOU wouldn't be, but assuming you had no moral compass and would continue to lie about who you are and what you believe just for the money). Do you think the republican party wouldn't be ushering you out the door upon seeing blatantly liberal commentary on your FB account or blog?
Depends on the Republican, the state GOP, and how good you are at what you do.
And maybe I've been slugging it out here in TX politics long enough to know that a smart pol and PR person can easily spin the fallout of a rebellious staffer (even a PR staffer) to: "This pr flack thinks x while my party and I support y, but she supports me (she's just made a statement about how wonderful the pol is), so I can't be all bad/I can appeal to a diverse constituency. Real Americans don't cut and run from somebody who thinks different, and they don't cut and run on someone who's been such a big part of their success."
Think a lot of Americans wouldn't buy that one? Come on!
The pol going that route probably raked her over the coals for it behind the scenes, her job is on the line if she does it again, but he's not about to show it. United front, baby.
Posted by: Perspexo
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May 29, 2010 12:38 AM
@ Caine FDM
Yeah something along those lines. I can remember a fellow alter boy passing out and collapsing in a heap because he was choking on the host and afraid to do anything about it.
Ah innocent days of fear and ignorance!
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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May 29, 2010 12:54 AM
Perspexo, I spent a night utterly tormented at that tender age because I dared to save my own life. I didn't sleep, but spent the night sitting up, clutching my bible to my chest, tears streaming, terrified of spending eternity in hell. By the time dawn broke, it was over. Reason won, "god" went to his own hell. If there is one thing catholic school was good for, it was killing off god delusions.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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May 29, 2010 6:23 AM
NOT THAT I'M SAYING IT'S RIGHT, but at least in my circle of knowledge, it's understood that online posts are grounds for job termination. So while I see where you are coming from with the 'blame the victim' thought, I can't quite agree.
riiiggghhhttt...
what did i say in the next post about doublestandards?
yeah.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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May 29, 2010 6:24 AM
@79 - Good job responding to another topic.
sorry, I won't be forgiving it for its performance in the rape thread.
I still say ban it.
Posted by: Eidolon
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May 29, 2010 9:06 AM
My first teaching job was in a Catholic high school. They needed a teacher and I fit the bill. I informed the principal I was not Catholic but she was not interested in that - she was more interested in my background in Chemistry and Biology.There were never any problems with evolution and there were no expectations as to my conforming to Catholic doctrine. I suspect this differs from diocese to diocese. This was decades ago and the internal politics have changed drastically since then.
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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May 29, 2010 9:20 AM
Ugh. This is a prime example of what's wrong with our society.
There are only three circumstances I can think of in which it might be morally acceptable to fire someone based on something they'd posted online:
(1) If they were admitting to criminal activity which directly impacted their trustworthiness for their job - for example, an accountant talking about embezzlement, or someone who worked with children talking about child molestation;
(2) If they were divulging confidential information and breaking privilege, e.g. a lawyer or a psychiatrist talking online about their clients' personal matters; or
(3) If they worked at a policymaking level for a political party or a religious organisation, say, and were expressing beliefs directly opposed to those of their employer.
Point (3) should only apply where someone's job is explicitly ideological in character - a policy advisor for a political party, for instance, or a priest or bishop in a church - and can't be done unless they share the goals of their organisation. It would be totally wrong to fire someone from a secretarial job in a company, say, because of their ideas about politics or religion.
Fundamentally, it really scares me how much of a big imbalance of power there is between employers and employees, especially in times of high unemployment. We need to change things. No one should be fired for arbitrary stupid reasons. The libertarian idea that all employment relationships should be based on unrestricted "freedom of contract" is just naive and silly. We live in a society where there's a huge amount of pressure on everyone to get a job and "earn a living", and employers currently have a massive amount of untrammelled power to exploit and oppress employees.
Posted by: llewelly
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May 29, 2010 9:51 AM
randydudek | May 28, 2010 11:20 PM:
So you won't say that it's right, but you support it anyway:
So typical of those who enable restriction of necessary freedoms by domineering and clueless employers.
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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May 29, 2010 9:52 AM
For clarity, I should add that I wasn't accusing the person who wrote the post I was quoting of being a "prime example of what's wrong with our society". Rather, I was saying that the idea that someone could be fired from a job for something s/he posted on the internet is symptomatic of what's wrong with our society.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/ConydMcOqpzRgPjWgn_N0la1xxoYHAUJ4V0-#b7ec9
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May 29, 2010 11:47 AM
http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/95159949.html
According to this, they asked if she was Catholic when she was hired and she said no.
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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May 29, 2010 12:42 PM
Yahoomess @#98
From the link:
What the fuck?
Posted by: Haley
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May 29, 2010 2:36 PM
disclaimer: I haven't read all the comments yet.
I'm an atheist who wants to teach elementary school (probably public school though, or public alternative, so less of an issue) and this whole thing makes me nervous. I currently babysit, and I'd be heartbroken if I lost my job because the parents found out I'm an atheist. I don't actually eat babies. I just answer their probing "whyyyyy???" questions until I'm explaining how water surface tension works to a five year old.
Posted by: llewelly
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May 29, 2010 3:37 PM
Walton | May 29, 2010 12:42 PM:
Welcome to America, where we are surrounded by people who believe atheists do not deserve respect, jobs, or any rights. So much for the words of Thomas Jefferson.
Posted by: dahduh
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May 29, 2010 6:32 PM
This is one of those mind-blowing pinch-me I just can't believe it incidents that America likes to throw up every week or two.
Can you imagine the fury that would erupt if a secular school fired a biology teacher because she was seen by her students going to church? And yet a Catholic school even _thinks_ of firing a teacher for answering an Internet poll?
Just jaw-dropping.
Posted by: Hirnlego
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May 30, 2010 7:28 AM
Educated Catholics have sown dissent and confusion in the Church, claims bishop
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3464073/Educated-Catholics-have-sown-dissent-and-confusion-in-the-Church-claims-bishop.html
Posted by: Rorschach
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May 30, 2010 7:39 AM
From that link :
That needs to be put on billboards and shown everywhere.
Just awesome.
Posted by: CobaltSky
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May 30, 2010 9:51 AM
At my school we had an amazing head of 6th form. Probably the most engaging teacher I've ever had and very good at his job. Unfortunately he was an atheist and this was a multi-denominational christian school. He had a lot of conflicts with the head because he wouldn't talk about god or pray during his assemblies. Eventually he left to become headteacher of a secular school, which is a great shame from my point of view but good for him.
State funded faith school are an abomination. That sort of thing would happen a lot. Especially in the science department, there was a massive staff turnover because they wouldn't follow the dogma. The only science teacher who lasted any length of time was actually training to become a deacon, so spending more time in church than teaching us.
Posted by: jbowen42
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May 31, 2010 5:37 AM
Frank,
It's cool. I'm wrong about things all the time, but I'm learning, god damn it.
Posted by: John-H
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June 10, 2010 9:50 PM
I went to a catholic school in Northern Ireland and had a great biology teacher who started most lessons with a long rant usually about religion and the nonexistence of god. I find it sad that the USA seems to be doing worse in both religious freedom and freedom of speech for teachers than Northern Ireland.