…and this is a 
Ol' Ratzi is quite upset at the Belgian raids on Catholic church offices — he's calling them "deplorable", a "moment of sadness", and is calling in the Belgian ambassador to the Vatican for an angry dressing-down.
He's doing everything all wrong. Here's what he should be doing: he should be calling the actions of priestly sex abusers deplorable and wrong, and insisting that the church will do everything in its power to correct the deep problems that have led to these awful acts. Then he should announce that the church will cooperate fully with all legal secular actions — and the Belgian raids were fully authorized by the Belgian state — in getting down to the heart of the matter, and go even further, offering to open up all relevant records to inspection. Then I might be convinced that the church is sincere in its pursuit of justice for all, not just its priests, but also its parishioners.
But then, I'm an atheist. Ignore me. I'm kind of enjoying the spectacle of the Catholic church putting on the indignant act of a guilty criminal caught red-handed and insisting that the police shouldn't be working so hard to catch them.
Comments
Posted by: A. Nuran
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June 27, 2010 12:09 PM
Stop me if you've heard this one before.
Three men walked into a bar, a priest, a pedophile and a rapist. And then there were the other two guys...
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 27, 2010 12:11 PM
Benny Ratzi and the rest of the RCC hierarchy still believe the dignity and prestige of the church are more important than the welfare of children. That's what I find repugnant about Benny and the Boys.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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June 27, 2010 12:15 PM
As I said on B&W, why is the Pope interfering in this matter? It's not been a month since they insisted that bishops are not employees of the Vatican. So this raid must be an internal matter for the Bruges diocese - nothing at all to do with the Pope.
Right?
Posted by: Givesgoodemail
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June 27, 2010 12:15 PM
I keep reading this issue as if the Church wants to establish its own flavor of shar'ia.
Posted by: Luis Dias
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June 27, 2010 12:21 PM
Don't let facts deter you mr PZ, coz it's well known that the Razi pope has done this already.
You know shit about the role of this pope viz a viz this scandal, but that doesn't stop you from spreading inanities. It's all about clubishness from you, and since he's a christian and you're not, you will lie about him if it goes for your agenda.
I prefer a higher standard, and I'm sorry (not really) if that upsets both christians and pharyngulites.
Posted by: Frank b
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June 27, 2010 12:21 PM
A friend of the family came for a visit, and she (raised a catholic) was saying that these abusive people can be found in any group, so finding them in the RCC is nothing special. In her case I knew it was pointless to point out that keeping the child rapists, protecting them, moving them around, all the while saying that you are the supreme moral authority of humanity is not what other organizations do.
Posted by: Kristjan Wager
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June 27, 2010 12:25 PM
[citation needed]
Posted by: johnred23
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June 27, 2010 12:26 PM
*checks his list of deplorable things*
hmm, child rape, covering child rape, complaining when you get find out for covering up child rape, spreading lies about condoms to prolong the spread of HIV, talking in movie theaters... nope, raiding the offices of instutions that cover up child rape isn't one of them. I guess Ratzi is going to the special hell
Posted by: hyperdeath
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June 27, 2010 12:32 PM
Luis Dias:
Only four posts before the morons march in...
No one is blaming the Catholic Church for the fact that some of its members happened to be paedophiles. What we are criticising (and please try to understand this, you stupid stupid stupid little man) is the mass global conspiracy to cover up mass rape, which allowed the paedophiles to operate with near impunity.
Ratzi may have apologised for the rapes themselves, but he hasn't apologised in the slightest for his role in covering them up.
Posted by: ambulocetacean
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June 27, 2010 12:34 PM
Bertone reckons the Belgian cops are worse than the communists?
When your attempts to vilify your adversary necessitate paying a compliment to the Stasi you should perhaps re-examine your position.
Posted by: Kevin Anthoney
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June 27, 2010 12:35 PM
I hope the Belgian Ambassador refuses to take any shit from these people. You never know, if he handles it well he might get promoted to be ambassador in an actual country!
Posted by: rufustfirefly66
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June 27, 2010 12:40 PM
Hey, Luis Diaz"
"fuck that motherfucker"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0
Posted by: hyperdeath
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June 27, 2010 12:40 PM
By the way, would everyone please stop using that revolting euphemism "abuse". The word is "rape".
Ratzinger didn't cover up child abuse. He covered up child rape.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 27, 2010 12:42 PM
Pope Ratzi has apologized for the rapes. He hasn't said a fucking word about the coverups. If the RCC had a policy of informing the civil authorities about child rapists then there wouldn't be a scandal. Every school, every hospital, every organization who deals with children in the Western World calls the cops when they think one of their people is a child rapist, except the Catholic Church. They have a policy of moving child rapists to a different area with access to new victims.
Sorry, Luis, but your church is one of the most immoral organizations on Earth because of their support and protection of child rapists.
Posted by: hyperdeath
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June 27, 2010 12:45 PM
By the way, are any British Pharyngulites planning to "greet" Ratzinger when he vists our Sceptred Isle?
On a completely ...ahem... unrelated matter, does anyone know the best place to buy vuvuzelas from?
Posted by: BrianX
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June 27, 2010 12:48 PM
Givesgoodemail:
I'm not sure it's official policy, but i've assumed for years that there are a large number of members of the Catholic brass who miss the medieval era where the Pope's authority was unquestioned even by kings. Look at their incredibly idiotic approach to fixing things in Ireland -- going in and baldly demanding a return to the days where a priest was trusted implicitly.
I had once thought there was a point at which the Catholic Church no longer sympathized with the dictators of the world, and maybe there was a point during Vatican II and John XXIII that it wasn't, at least on paper. But I think Mother Teresa, with her bizarre attitude towards hoarding unused donations, her sympathetic approach to people like the Duvaliers, her fetishization of suffering, and her obsessiveness with abortion and homosexuality sets the tone for what the Catholic Church is really about.
I'm actually in some ways glad I grew up in the church, because it gives me unfettered license to hate it as much as it deserves...
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 27, 2010 12:51 PM
Getting ready for the next footie outing?
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 27, 2010 12:54 PM
Wow, Luis, standing up for Pope Fritz. I'm touched...just like a kid left alone with a priest. Fritz must really be brownstorming with his little minions on how he's going to pull his own arse from the legal fire considering he was an accessory to the crimes committed, seeing as the Belgian actions are probably just the tip of a VERY overdue iceberg. Can you rearrange the letters of Vatican to spell Titanic? Dang, almost.
Posted by: Galactus35
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June 27, 2010 12:55 PM
I wonder if they'd get a good perp walk out of Ratzi if they raided the Vatican?
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 27, 2010 12:55 PM
#15 try a soccer shop, online or meatspace.
Posted by: hyperdeath
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June 27, 2010 12:57 PM
No. I'm not that into football.Posted by: blf
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June 27, 2010 1:01 PM
Yeah, I just saw this in the Grauniad, which concluded:
Yeah. Right. Reports of law-breaking are not supposed to be investigated by the police, or at least not until the Rape Children Cult has had a chance to doctor/hide/destroy the evidence, threaten/intimidate the victims, and move/hide the suspects. And when the police call you on that, it's a conspiracy.
Posted by: Andyo
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June 27, 2010 1:02 PM
Because christians don't lie. Especially popes?
Are you really that stupid, or do you wanna rephrase that?
Or did you already ran away like most of the coward hit-and-run christians that we get here every now and then, who think they've made some point with an idiotic comment like that.
Posted by: Zeno
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June 27, 2010 1:03 PM
Pope Benny Hex is continuing in the grand tradition of his predecessor, John Paul II, who was probably sincere in his (embarrassingly few) remarks deploring priestly misbehavior but swift and sure in providing refuge to coverup artists like Cardinal Bernard Law, who was spirited away from Boston and given sanctuary in a cozy Vatican job, where he remains today.
By the way, there's an outfit called The John Paul II Cultural Center that wants to honor "the timeless teachings and Christ-like leadership of the Servant of God John Paul the Great." I just got a fundraising letter from them that is as sleazy and gimmicky in its money-grubbing prose as anything else I've ever seen, and I don't except political mailers or evangelical huckstering.
Posted by: ckitching
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June 27, 2010 1:10 PM
And to think that some people actually believed the Pope when he said that they were going to start cooperating with law enforcement in these child rape incidents. Of course, since the order to cover these things up came from the man who is now Pope, we can't have papal infallibility in doubt, can we? So, back to business as usual, as always.
Posted by: ereador
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June 27, 2010 1:10 PM
From the linked article:
It never ceases to amaze me how these, um, theologians so consistently display logic fail. These people had to study Aquinas and Augustine, et. al., to get where they are. How did they pass their seminary exams? Do they think people will actually accept the twisted implication that Belgian law enforcement is worse than communist tyrannies? Oh, wait....The only reason there are no, or few, (modern) precedents is that christian churches in the west have historically gotten a pass on many violations of civil law and morality. The comparison above to Sharia law is apt. Bertone seems to have forgotten or omitted Luther, though. The shit can really hit the fan if people get pissed off enough.
I think the real issue is that apologetic bishops (cardinals, especially) are vile people in a vile institution, and are willing to say and do anything to further their despicable, extralegal aims. There is, of course, 2000 years of historical precedent for this.
Luis Dias, just STFU and go eat dead cicadas or something.
Posted by: blf
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June 27, 2010 1:17 PM
Whilst written in response to another injustice, Bruce Cockburn's rage at this sort of horseshit still resonates: If I had a Rocket Launcher.
In terms of actually doing something, I'm rather hoping that everywhere the Rape Children Cult's Great Leader goes, Tim Minchin's Pope Song is played on the PA. On a loop.
Posted by: TGH
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June 27, 2010 1:27 PM
#5
The "facts", Mr. Dias, are that none of the abuse cases were uncovered by church insiders...none. If the church were so interested changing their culture and rooting out abusers, if they have truly changed, they could prove it to me by outing just one priest. They won't, and the facts show that they've done just the opposite.
Posted by: Westcoaster
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June 27, 2010 1:37 PM
Pope deplores 'sex abuse'
raidsby Belgianpoliceclergy.The headline we would have wanted.
Posted by: Abdul Alhazred
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June 27, 2010 1:40 PM
A perp walk in the Vatican for the Zinger himself?
I'm not sure what the precise legalities would be what with him being a head of state, but if the US could arrest Noriega in Pamama ...
;)
Posted by: Markjn
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June 27, 2010 1:45 PM
I'm a former catholic and I always cringe when I read stuff like this. The dishonesty about probably the worst crime on earth is horrifying. I am a nightclub promoter so its rare for me to be taking the moral high ground lol, but this is disgusting.
Posted by: Ken
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June 27, 2010 1:49 PM
Ratzi is right. The Catholic church has been treated very poorly by the Belgians. They should put their displeasure into action and leave Belgium immediately!
Posted by: gregvalcourt
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June 27, 2010 1:59 PM
The Pope needs a miracle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBrmH2pCmyM
Posted by: Ñbrevu
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June 27, 2010 2:09 PM
Yes, it's kind of enjoyable. At least, it would certainly be if we weren't talking abut child rapists.
#16:
I know people who wish a return to the Dark Ages. They actually exist, although there are few of them; however, I guess that here in Europe they are quite harder to find than in the most redneck infested areas of the USA.
Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification
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June 27, 2010 2:23 PM
Ratzinger: "I thought we had an agreement that we were above the law."
Belgium: "That was then, Mr. Pope, this is now."
Posted by: raven
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June 27, 2010 2:27 PM
The RCC leadership has fossilized in place. The members long ago stopped paying attention to them for that reason.
The pope should drop the clergy celibacy. This isn't biblical, it is something they made up a few centuries ago. At one point in time, the pope could hand the position down to his son.
They should also drop the birth control rule which is also something they just made up. It wasn't even centuries ago, just a few decades.
The way things are going for them, it is going to be reform or die. Their system is broken and insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result.
Posted by: Hank
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June 27, 2010 2:35 PM
I recommend that everyone send an email to the Belgian ambassador in Washington, DC, or to any of the Belgian consulates in your state, expressing your support for and admiration of the Belgian law enforcement agencies. The Vatican is going to try to paint the Belgians as "jackbooted thugs," and the Belgians need to know that right-thinking people aren't buying it.
Posted by: Numad
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June 27, 2010 2:36 PM
"But then, I'm an atheist. Ignore me."
Don't you mean that you're a reason-having, non-gnostic, deity unacceptant person? You're just confusing people with this "atheist" business. Use base words!
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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June 27, 2010 2:41 PM
Yes, General Ursus, civil investigations are imperfect, and the secular world has not actually stopped the menace of child rape, merely worked against it, sometimes failing.
What's your point?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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June 27, 2010 2:41 PM
IGNORE ME!
Posted by: A. Nuran
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June 27, 2010 2:41 PM
'Tis Himself writes:
Every school, every hospital, every organization who deals with children in the Western World calls the cops when they think one of their people is a child rapist, except the Catholic Church. They have a policy of moving child rapists to a different area with access to new victims.
I wish you were right. But you aren't.
When 15 year old Tina Anderson was raped by her Baptist pastor the Church didn't go to the cops. They forced her to confess to the congregation, forced into house arrest in a foster home and held in isolation until she gave up her baby for adoption.
The Reform, Conservative and Modern Orthodox branches of Judaism have very good child abuse policies and seem to follow them. But the ignorant, dirty, superstitious, parasitic reactionary Charedi fucks don't. They threaten the victim's family, cover up the crimes and give harsh penalties like shunning and preventing you or any of your relatives from getting married if anyone comes forward.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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June 27, 2010 2:44 PM
Use base words!
LOL
definitely a phrase to remember, like Star-fart.
Posted by: Kagehi
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June 27, 2010 2:49 PM
Mr. Ursus. If you are trying to play the, "See, other people do bad things and hide it.", card, as it would seem, then you are missing the fracking point. Schools are not headed universally by something thought infallible, they do not "collectively" as one organization, act to hide it, they don't move people around, to protect them, and ***specifically***, they don't claim to be the ultimate moral authority in the entire universe, from which all **right** and **proper** ideas spawn. The problem with the RCC is not that others may do the same things, on occasion, but that they a) intentionally try to hide it from authorities (your quoted article indicates that no attempt to hide it happens, but that the courts simply fail to respond properly, which is entirely different), and b) claim that they teach not math, or reading, but proper morality and ethics.
This is about as sane an argument, in favor of the RCC, as if you where claiming that oil companies' safety wasn't *bad*, nor was stronger rulings and more aggressive pursuit needed, by quoting an article on the "minor" fines given to people that dump their used oil in storm drains, after working on their cars. Yeah, we know other people pollute too, and don't follow rules. Big duh! But the point in that case isn't that other people spill oil, its who is spilling it, how often, and that they continue to do so, over and over, while claiming to a) know more about preventing it, and b) having the highest possible safety standards. You know.. Unlike some random car repair shop, which gets the idea that its cheaper to dump their used oil in a gutter, than in a catch barrel. Same with the RCC. You can't claim to be better than either the general populous, never mind other organizations, then do things that are an order of magnitude ***worse***, such as hiding the fact that they happen at all, not just buy a good lawyer, so you get your hand slapped, instead of real jail time.
The RCC hasn't even gotten its hand slapped yet, and the few among its members that have, only got slapped decades ***after*** it happened, and people got fed up with it.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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June 27, 2010 2:51 PM
What's your point?
this:
A congressional study and an Associated Press survey have found in recent years that sexual assault - meaning molestation and rape - against children is rampant in public schools throughout the country.
is what he bolded in his previous cut-and-paste.
I suspect the "general" point is him trying to deflect blame away from the CC by saying that child rape happens in other organizations, too.
Tim Minchin's pope song, mentioned earlier, would be just the thing for the good general to take a gander at.
i suspect he's a motherfucking apologist for a motherfucking fucker that's been fucking our asses for eons.
Posted by: Galactus35
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June 27, 2010 2:52 PM
A christian who knowingly harmed children by participating in a system that protected child molesters by shuffling them around to avoid attention. Some role model you got there.
Posted by: flyonthewall
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June 27, 2010 3:23 PM
I hope i live long enough to see the peasants storm the vatican and burn it to the ground.
i'll have lived to see a god die.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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June 27, 2010 3:35 PM
Sorry, but I like the art and the pomp. No burnings, please.Posted by: abb3w
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June 27, 2010 3:43 PM
'Tis Himself, OM: Benny Ratzi and the rest of the RCC hierarchy still believe the dignity and prestige of the church are more important than the welfare of children.
Either you or Benny is getting confused between the prestige and dominance forms of authority. See, EG, (doi:10.1016/j.evolhumbehav.2010.02.004).
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 27, 2010 3:45 PM
Gee Ursus, were you not paying all those times teachers and parents were trying to teach you that two wrongs don't make a right, or are you just a braindead asshole?
I know, dumb question. The answer is obvious: Braindead asshole.
Posted by: davem
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June 27, 2010 4:01 PM
I have a very old egg with the pope's name on it. My neighbour has a vuvuzela. Use of the latter sounds(ouch!) like a plan....
Posted by: BicycleRepairMan
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June 27, 2010 4:01 PM
Pat Condells Latest: The Pope needs a miracle
http://videosift.com/video/The-Pope-needs-a-miracle
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 27, 2010 4:04 PM
Paying attention, even.
:::Hiding in corner, sunk in gloom, hoping puppy dog eyes will work for forgiveness::::
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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June 27, 2010 4:14 PM
And this has what to excuse an institution claiming the high moral ground? You loose that one big time delusional fool. What a loser general bear shit.Posted by: Abdul Alhazred
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June 27, 2010 4:16 PM
It gets worse.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4471/print
Note: This is a very right wing site, not godless hippies.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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June 27, 2010 4:31 PM
General Ursus:
What you are trying to do is provide an apologia for the catholic church. It won't work. We all know child abuse happens outside of the CC. There are very glaring differences, however. The CC, as an institution has been around for a very long time, and has long indulged in bilking, torture, killing and abuses of every kind. They've long had the policy of turning a blind eye to abuses as well.
The catholic church has gone out of their way, for such a very long time, to cover up any abuse whatsoever, including all the raping going on. They have knowingly removed an active pedophile from an area once his crimes have been reported and rather than doing what is *right*, they simply farm him out to an unsuspecting populace in a different area. They've enabled pedophiles as well as protected them, all the while pretending they aren't covering up anything. We've heard from the pope and representatives of the catholic church "oh, if we had know that was against the law..." Please. Your average 3 year old can lie better than that.
All this, mind, has been done while the pope continues to claim he and the catholic church have the high moral ground. It's loathsome and beneath contempt.
Posted by: jcmartz.myopenid.com
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June 27, 2010 4:34 PM
It is interesting that the vicar of christ on earth can't perform any miracles to deal with the matter at hand.
Posted by: scottknickelbine
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June 27, 2010 4:36 PM
Geez, you guys are missing the best part of this story! _The Belgian Police dug up the bodies of two former bishops, looking for hidden documents relating to the case!_ I can't imagine they would have done such a thing without probable cause.
So at the very least, they had some solid testimony that not one but two bishops tried to take this scandal to their graves -- literally! This kinda stuff makes Dan Brown look like an illiterate hack! (Come to think of it, Brown does a pretty good job of that by himself, but anyway.)
Posted by: darvolution proponentsist
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June 27, 2010 4:37 PM
Your strawman is shaping up very well General, carry on.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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June 27, 2010 4:41 PM
Ursus:
You know what? The Catholic and various other churches don't help one bit even with secular organizations and accusations of child rape.
Ever heard of slut shaming?
Posted by: Abdul Alhazred
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June 27, 2010 4:51 PM
@ #63 -- Thank you I missed that one.
Posted by: raven
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June 27, 2010 4:54 PM
Just a troll lying.
Name those "opinion-formers in the public square that are reluctant to acknowledge that sexual predators and child abusers are found outside the Catholic priests.*
I'll go first. As head of the Galactic Universal Catholic League, sure there is. As a taxpayer, I pay child protective services, the police, and courts to deal with this. I've even pointed out that other churches such as the LDS have the same problem and the boy scouts.
*Name them. He won't do it because he is a lying theist troll.
His trolling fails on many grounds, lying, two wrongs making a right, and also on false equivalence. What is the difference between a teacher covering up child sexual abuse and the Pope covering up child sexual abuse. Not much but there is one crucial difference. The Pope is supposedly a moral authority running a religion and talking to and representing god every once in a while. Teachers are just people doing a job.
If the Pope has no more moral or religious authority than the guy who mows your lawn, why bother belonging to the RCC? You could simply belong to the frequent mowing society and get the same intangible benefits.
Posted by: Abdul Alhazred
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June 27, 2010 4:56 PM
But of course the Roman [i]Catholic[/i] church transcends "conservative" versus "liberal" in the political sense. And corrupts them both.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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June 27, 2010 4:58 PM
Why are you so keen for them to reform and survive? Wouldn't you rather they dug their heels in and died?
depends on how many they plan to take with them on the way down.
Frankly, I'm wondering if South America and Africa can really stand to wait for them to reform.
The Associated Press found that much of the sexual assault is intentionally ignored and unreported by school teachers and administrators, and offenders are often simply passed around to other schools. Few ever face serious prosecution and consequences
no, I didn't miss that. it's just that it doesn't ADD anything to the argument.
all you are fucking doing is deflecting blame from motherfuckers by saying there are other motherfuckers.
fuck off.
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 27, 2010 5:11 PM
I'm not saying two wrongs make a right
You disingenuous piece of shit.Other people aren't under discussion. Your deluded gang of child raping thugs is. All that matters right now is what your crocks in frocks are doing with their cocks. You don't get to go on trial for rape, and point at other rapists and say, go after them for their rapes. They're not on trial right now. The vacuous Vatican is.
So sit down and shut up if you're going to play the whiny games of a 6 year old.
Scumbag.
Posted by: hyperdeath
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June 27, 2010 5:16 PM
We need a signature tune. As vuvuzelas have only one note, how about morse code:
buzz buzzzzzzzzzz buzz... R for rape.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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June 27, 2010 5:19 PM
Still waiting for your evidence that misdeeds of anybody other than the RCC, who deliberately covered up its pedophiles, means anything for the institution claiming the highest moral ground, like the RCC does. General bear shit, you prose smells far worse than bullshit. Try again with a cogent argument. For example, the RCC is turning over to civil authorities all records of pedophilia, going back at least 50 years, to the police authorities in all effected countries. Until, then, you would be wise to shut the fuck up, since your hypocrisy is noted by people far, far smarter than you...
Posted by: raven
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June 27, 2010 5:44 PM
No more than most other people. Less than a priest or Pope, supposedly. If they did, why would we need churches and religions? You are stupid.
As predicted, he didn't name those mythological opinion formers in the public square. Because they don't exist. What a lying slime mold.
This is where religion fails. Religion and religionists are no more moral or ethical than the average person. In many cases, such as General Ursus troll, they are far, far worse.
When the guy who mows your lawn is far superior ethically and spiritually to a priest or Pope, why bother belonging to the RCC? You would get better advice and your lawn mowed besides.
Posted by: Abdul Alhazred
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June 27, 2010 5:45 PM
Rabbi Baruch Lanner was an abuser of youth under his charge. Worse than many of the RC priests in the scandal at hand.
Compare and contrast how different communities deal with such a man.
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/lanner_baruch.html
Posted by: hyperdeath
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June 27, 2010 5:49 PM
General Ursus's argument is a classic example of what aboutery. It's a common gambit amongst individuals of low-to-moderate intelligence, when trying to defend the indefensible.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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June 27, 2010 5:52 PM
Compared to priest, which you ignore, no. What a loser bear shit.Compared your thinking bear shit, absolutely. You are a primes example of avoidance of responsibility. What a loser apologist...Posted by: Cactus Wren
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June 27, 2010 6:11 PM
Ursus:
Concern troll is concerned.Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 27, 2010 6:14 PM
No more than any other adult. His Popishness, on the other hand, pretends to be THE moral authority on Earth. Vicar of Christ and that sort of thing.
One thing you don't seem to realize is we understand that in any large group of people there are going to be sexual deviants, including child rapists. Our anger is due to the Church's blatant coverup of child rape and active support and protection of the rapists.
Incidentally, your whining about peoples' language here is not going to impress anyone. Our language can be a bit rude, crude and lewd and we don't give a shit if you like it or not.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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June 27, 2010 6:21 PM
General Ursus:
Actually, no, they don't. Why do you think parents scream out loud if a teacher says something they don't agree with and don't want hitting their child's tender ears?
A teacher is supposed to be well under the radar in regard to moral authority, parents expect that to be their purview. Parents want teachers to teach the basics and reinforce the everyday stuff "hitting is not good", etc.
It's the religious, especially your precious, poisonous priests who claim moral authority. Your pathetic attempts at apologia are pointless. The RCC is the godfather of organized crime and they are not remotely disturbed by all the evil they have done and continue to do.
The pope and his henchmen are still busy telling people in countries ravaged by AIDS that condoms will not help at all and using them will make god angry with you. Much better to get sick and die, after you've spread the disease around some more.
The pope and his henchmen are still on the side of men who rape and impregnate their 9 year old daughter. They, in their moral authority, forgive rapist daddy, while excommunicating the mother and daughter for having the nerve to be angry at daddy's actions and having an abortion performed to save the 9 year old's physical life and mental wellbeing.
The pope and his henchmen are still refusing to cooperate with authorities when it comes to all the pedophiles cowering in their ranks.
You can take your apologia for Nasty Ratzi and his criminal empire and stuff it. Sideways.
Posted by: vimes
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June 27, 2010 6:24 PM
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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June 27, 2010 6:31 PM
Let's say that a corporation had some of their executives regularly rape children. And the head of the organization had the news of these crimes suppressed and the victims and their families silenced instead of firing these criminals and giving the evidence to local authorities. If news of these rapes and cover up came out, is it not within the rights of the police to investigate the internal records of the said corporation?
Why should the RCC be exempt from this?
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 27, 2010 6:32 PM
It's a clear-thinking oasis for those who know how to make a valid point. You haven't done that yet.
Address the substance, slimeball, rather than whining about tone. Not that you have any substance, you just want people to stop saying mean things about your corrupt masters so that you can feel better about sucking up to them for so long.
By the way, no, teachers aren't moral authorities any more than Salman Rushdie is. They're moral actors, but not moral authorities. They aren't expected to be the sole source of morality, and they aren't given an international platform to spread their vicious 12th century hatred to the world like the Vatican is. Too bad your god-soaking poisoned your tiny little brain so much that you're incapable of knowing the difference.
Posted by: CW
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June 27, 2010 6:41 PM
We don't.Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 27, 2010 7:06 PM
@A. Nuran #43: I dated a girl whose family had been treated in much the same manner by the Mor_on (LSD) church after she was molested by a relative. They literally had to move to another state. I've heard this tale in discussion a couple more times from other people in the passing years so the Catholics shouldn't be the only ones being investigated. I mean, if my personal face to face discussions yielded three cases, the total number has to be pretty large.
Maybe this is the draw of Western religions - the unblinking sky overlord promises to forgive you if you just fall on your knees (what you do after the falling is a little vague). Religion seems to steal the force of personal responsibility. You can see it in the way the RCC has tried sweeping one of the worst crimes a person can conceive underneath their billion dollar rugs.
Heh, speaking of which, did anyone see the Sarah Silverman bit on Real Time a few months back? Watch it here, it's absolutely brilliant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bObItmxAGc
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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June 27, 2010 7:19 PM
As if we care what you think bear shit. You are trying to apologize and excuse the inexcusable behavior of a religious institution claiming moral superiority. Which would only come about if they acknowledged their sins and gave all evidence to secular authorities, and defrocked those responsible. What a loser you are...Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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June 27, 2010 7:25 PM
I am totally and completely unsympathetic to the RCC and its hierarchy.
However, at least in the United States, I think it is somewhat less likely that child molestation and rape will happen going forward. As part of being involved in SonSpawn's Boy Scout troop, I had to be fingerprinted and go to a 3 hour class about preventing child sexual abuse. I've worked fairly extensively in mental health fields dealing with child abuse and prevention, and I was extraordinarily cynical about the program going in. I was actually surprised - the video presentation did a fantastic job of talking about sexual abuse, how abusers choose their victims, and how it affects kids and families afterward. They even had parents whose daughter had been raped by a priest talk about what it had done to them.
I still dislike the RCC intensely and I think the hierarchy is rotten to the core, but at least a couple things are sort of being done to address the problem. (Not, of course, that middle-aged former Catholic atheist Jewish moms are the biggest threat to the sexual integrity of Catholic Boy Scouts...)
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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June 27, 2010 7:27 PM
So, GU, the fact that the RCC covered up the crimes of their child raping priests puts you to sleep? Says all I need to know about you.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 27, 2010 7:29 PM
General Bearshit doesn't want to deal with reality. He'd rather sleep.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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June 27, 2010 7:33 PM
Mattir, read up about Alaska being the dumping grounds for child raping priests. Oh, and Bernard Law.
Posted by: sqlrob
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June 27, 2010 7:33 PM
How about countering them? Or can't you in your extreme ignorance?
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 27, 2010 7:35 PM
Still no valid argument, still not addressing anyone's points, just more displays of childish behavior.
You gonna call us poopyheads next?
Talk about our mamas?
Pathetic.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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June 27, 2010 7:55 PM
Piltdown Man, is that you? Naughty, naughty.
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble OM4Jesus
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June 27, 2010 8:02 PM
GENERAL URSUS!?
'TEN HUT!!
On yer feet marine!
What sort of example does sleeping on duty send to these namby-pamby, rationalatheist civilians?
God expects more from His volunteers. You're on a battleship stationed at the gates of Hell, marine.
So do ... your ... fucking ... duty!
Follow our sainted leader's example! Jesus-fucking-Christ didn't nod off while He was busy dying for you on the cross, did He boy?
Fuck no!
The good Lord kept His mind on the fucking mission. He kept his powder dry and His wick clear of wax.
ARE YOU LISTENING MARINE?
Dontcha know that sweet-effin'-Jesus preferred death before glory (even if it was only a temporary death in full knowledge that He was going to be resurrected and bathed in the Heavenly hot springs in a few days time after some naughty fun getting it on with a posse of well-hung demons)?
Now get back on duty, General Bear you sad slacker! In case you haven't noticed the Pope hasn't stopped defending the indefensible and churches the world over haven't ceased sheltering thieves, abusers and every other sort of vile scum. These are your Christian brothers, General Teddy, and it's up to you to get in there and root for them (or root with them, whatever takes your fancy).
This is your last warning, marine. Sleep on duty again and you'll be summoned to answer to Jesus, you'll be publicly humiliated by having a crown of thorns wrapped round your scrotum, and you'll be demoted to Corporal Pussy.
Amen!
Yours truly
God's Fucking Divine CIC
General Field Marshall Smoggy Batzrubble
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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June 27, 2010 8:05 PM
General Ursus:
This is your great and wondrous defense of criminal catholicism? You're ready to play Peoria, dude.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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June 27, 2010 8:07 PM
I agree with Wowbagger. If it isn't Pilty the idjit, it is his equivalent. Avoiding the hard questions at any cost...Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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June 27, 2010 8:12 PM
@Janine - I know, but this is a post-Bernard Law program (last 4-5 years maybe?). I loathe the organization as a whole, and I know that they've been majorly destructive for centuries and are still causing loads and loads of harm, probably even still shuffling priests around. But I was still surprised by how good the program was - they got a lot of real experts to talk about abuse and (most interestingly for me) a couple of convicted serial child molesters to talk about how they targeted their victims. The program really emphasized that it is not appropriate for an adult (priest or anyone else) to demand secrecy of a child or to insist on being alone with a child out of sight of other adults. So at a minimum, there might be fewer opportunities.
I'm going to be quiet now before I am perceived as a total apologist for an organization that I detest. Good program, bad organization - even the mustachioed mid-century you-know-who was nice to his dog, after all.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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June 27, 2010 8:21 PM
Mattir, I did not see your words as an apology for the RCC. I should have been more careful about what I said. I meant that you should not take your positive experience as indicative of the US as a whole.
Also, ask Lynna about the LDS involvement with the Boy Scouts.
And that madman had his dog killed when he did his double suicide.
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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June 27, 2010 8:38 PM
Believe me, I know all about the LDS involvement in the Boy Scouts. The entire no-atheists-and-gays thing was totally driven by LDS and lots and lots of scouting folks hate the LDS influence with a seething passion.
The Virtus (child abuse prevention program) is a nationwide US Council of Bishops requirement for volunteers, but that leaves loads of room for misbehavior both here and abroad.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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June 27, 2010 8:55 PM
General Ursus,
Interesting that all of your examples othet than the RCC involve prosecutions. Of course the crimes by priests cannot be prosecuted, because the RCC kept them from coming to light until long after the statute of limitations expired.
So you will please excuse me if I fail to grasp the moral equivalence between a bad apple getting into the school system, causing some harm, getting caught and prosecuted, etc., and the case where the RCC transfers the perp to a new church--without warning the new parishioners--and repeating this pattern for decades. The fact that you cannot see the difference perhaps says much about the Catholic teaching of morality.
Posted by: PZ Myers
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June 27, 2010 9:12 PM
Yes, Ursus was Piltdown Man. Gone now.
Posted by: Owlmirror
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June 27, 2010 9:20 PM
I thought I smelled a Hoax.
It's the defending Catholicism + tu quoque fallacy + special pleading + UTTER INSIPIDITY that gives him away...
Posted by: Shala
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June 27, 2010 9:25 PM
Yes, Ursus was Piltdown Man. Gone now.
I think at this point Piltdown Man qualifies for the Paper Thin Disguise trope.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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June 27, 2010 9:25 PM
He's not hard to spot. Morally deficient, rapist-defending, false-equivalence spouting, pro-Holy Roman church? That's Piltdown.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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June 27, 2010 9:26 PM
That dumb fuck just cannot help himself, can he? Seriously, is he learning impaired? Cannot seem to figure out that PZ can see IP addresses and that his style and subject matters remain the same.
Immoral asshole.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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June 27, 2010 9:40 PM
Shala, it's an unofficial rule that any link to TV Tropes requires a warning that the poster who linked to it is not responsible for the loss of time anyone who clicks on the link experiences as a result, as illustrated perfectly by this this xkcd strip.
Posted by: Shala
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June 27, 2010 10:07 PM
Shala, it's an unofficial rule that any link to TV Tropes requires a warning that the poster who linked to it is not responsible for the loss of time anyone who clicks on the link experiences as a result, as illustrated perfectly by this this xkcd strip.
Oh I know. I just enjoy being evil. :p
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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June 27, 2010 10:26 PM
I wondered why you seemed to be fitting in so well.Normally I would say don't hold back our account, except that religidiot loser doesn't deserve the effort of a good insult. Just pointing to worm excrement should be sufficient...Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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June 27, 2010 11:20 PM
Just pointing to worm excrement should be sufficient...
Nerd, you know better than that. Worm shit is some of the best stuff in the world.
Posted by: eMel
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June 28, 2010 12:21 AM
While I salute the Belgian authorities for this move, I simply cannot imagine a similar move here in the US without the President being accused of waging Jihad on Christians by the radical-right.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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June 28, 2010 4:42 AM
#103
Let us just say that a formally insurmountable hill fortress that was completely impregnable has revealed it is but a virtual cardboard façade constructed of wishful thinking, ignorance, bigotry and sexual inadequacy and stuck together with out right lies and black magic and for the first time in its ignominious history it is crumbling away...and the ancient 'respect' they demanded is shown to be born out of abject fear and that is slipping away like morning mist.
All smoke and mirrors...the 'trick' is shown for what it is!
The truly pathetic excuses they are burbling is a complete panic stations stammering of inanity.
They are fucking well and truly busted!
They are not as invincible as they have always boasted.
Now the long and rapid slide to obscurity and historical footnote.
It will take a while but they did start at the top and tis a long way down!
They are reaching terminal velocity...oh dear, how sad, never mind!
Precedent has been set by a government.
About fucking time too!
"Bring me my brown vestments" quoth 'Benny baby' the child raping apologist pope!
The inevitable fall of the RCC will be rejoiced by humanity there is no other result.
Next the protestant abominations.
Posted by: DLC
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June 28, 2010 7:25 AM
Aww, I missed Pilty.
I'm so not-unhappy.
He's been kicked out of here how many thousand times now, and still doesn't 'get' it ?
Um... me, I leave when I'm not wanted by my host.
Posted by: Abelard
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June 28, 2010 8:09 AM
There is a long history of intervention of secular law in the Catholic church, of which this event in Belgium appears to be a another small example. From the mid-sixteenth century up until well into the 19th century European governments judicially intervened on the ecclesiastical privileges of property, extending even so far as to legally nullify religious vows by clerics and monks. (see, for instance, the law of Mortmain issued by the Third Republic in 1790). In most cases, these governments simply wanted to reclaim ecclesiastical land held by outdated medieval charters for tax purposes, but there was a strong anti-catholic sentiment in the interventions in reform countries like Germany and England. (In England this is referred to as the 'Dissolution of the Monasteries' ; in Germany this movement is known as Josephinism, after the Emperor Joseph II (d1790) who created the first laws that gave precedence to secular over ecclesiastical authority.) Church historians refer to this movement generally as the laicization of Europe but its principle battleground was in the law courts rather than in the pews.
Ratzinger's comments tell us that the Catholic church is still fighting Josephinism. It is a testament to its wholly outdated views.
Posted by: hc
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June 28, 2010 10:57 AM
A comment in one of the leading newspapers in dutch :
"[The pope should be aware that] in a democracy The Last Judgment is not a wall painting in the sixtine chapel, but an absolute prerogative of the judiciary."
(In een democratie is Het Laatste Oordeel geen muurschildering in de Sixtijnse kapel, maar een absoluut prerogatief van de rechterlijke macht)
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/K2PNji0at.txAjzTShOlxwLuFcVVFwbnng--#bd813
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June 28, 2010 3:48 PM
That the Boy Scouts have a record rather like the RCC is no defense of either. I have talked to some people involved in scout molestation, so I do know a little about it.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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June 28, 2010 5:02 PM
Gotta love the RCC....
Yeah, HuffPo related but ever-so well attached to this conversation.