…and this is a 
Bill Donohue was looking awfully silly demanding that the Empire State Building celebrate Mother Teresa's birthday, so I guess he needed a new cause. He found one. The Catholic League is outraged by Lady Gaga's new video.
Lady Gaga is playing Madonna copy cat, squirming around half-naked with half-naked guys, abusing Catholic symbols--they're always Catholic symbols--while bleating out "Alejandro" enough times to induce vomit. Dressed occasionally as a nun in a glossy-red habit, the Madonna wannabe flashes the cross, swallows a rosary and manages to get raped by her S&M boyfriends. Hence, she has now become the new poster girl for American decadence and Catholic bashing, sans the looks and talent of her role model.
Like Madonna, Lady Gaga was raised Catholic and then morphed into something unrecognizable. "So I suppose you could say I'm a quite religious woman that is very confused about religion," she told Larry King last week.
That she is confused is an understatement. In any event, we hope she finds her way back home. In the meantime, Catholics will settle for her treating us like Muslims.
I'm actually a fan of Lady Gaga (Bill will not be surprised), so I had to zip over to youtube to see this. Here it is. It's got something for everybody. Just imagine poor Bill Donohue watching it over and over, compelled to document this atrocity, a little bit of saliva drooling from his slack lips, while with one hand he clicks "replay" repeatedly.
Donohue does have a point, I hate to say. I watched the whole thing, with its muscular young men gyrating in jackboots and tight shorts and nothing else, the weird headgear, the sadomasochistic imagery, the black leather uniforms, the flaming homoeroticism, and I was thinking, yeah, all that does remind me of Catholicism. I didn't think it was Catholic bashing, though. I thought it was a recruiting video.
Comments
Posted by: mistereveready
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June 11, 2010 3:45 PM
i'm not a fan of hers, and dont like the music, but i'm usually for something that stresses dononhue. just one another step to get him closer to permanently shutting the hell up.
him finding these things to get pissy about reminds me of when i was reading god is not great, and came to the part about some old women reading a dictionary for "foul" words. basically religion seems key for taboo.
if it wasn't her, id suspect that'd be a video of a catholic boarding school.
Posted by: Galactus35
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June 11, 2010 3:46 PM
I liked the video. The song was a little too Ace of Base for me but I did like the "City of Lost Children meets Sexy Fascism" vibe it had.
Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY
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June 11, 2010 3:46 PM
What's with the Moe haircuts?
Posted by: CS
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June 11, 2010 3:46 PM
GaGa is great.
To bad that she declared that the most influential person in her life is Deepak Chopra.
Posted by: alemdamargem
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June 11, 2010 3:48 PM
I'm amazed on how PZ can always post something amazing. Its what, the 5th post today and he manages to kick ass every single time :)
Ps. Love that video, by the way.
Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe
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June 11, 2010 3:49 PM
I can't for the life of me figure out which part of that was supposed to correspond to "manages to get raped by her S&M boyfriends". :-/
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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June 11, 2010 3:53 PM
Posted by: Newfie
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June 11, 2010 3:54 PM
Lady Gaga is to music as David Beckham is to knitting.
Posted by: rni.boh
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June 11, 2010 3:54 PM
Booo! It's not available in my country. I'll just have to imagine it instead.
Posted by: Kamaka
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June 11, 2010 3:55 PM
Hahaha!
I needed a good laugh. Thanks, PZ.
Man, I sure hope Donohue reads this.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 11, 2010 3:55 PM
Catholic symbols in that video:
● Nun's habit
● Rosary
● White outfit with crosses on it (possibly generic Christian)
● Bra with rifle barrels
I can see why Donahue is upset. Those images, particularly the last one, are denigrating the Catholic Church no end.
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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June 11, 2010 3:55 PM
Gah-gah! Blockquote fail.
Damn you, blockquote. I'll have my revenge.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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June 11, 2010 3:55 PM
Manages? Donohue manages to be as offensive as ever, I see. I wouldn't even bother to spit on him at this point. Loathsome creature.
Posted by: mistereveready
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June 11, 2010 3:55 PM
@ jadehawk the quasi rape thing is around 4:20ish-4:40.
basically she looks like she is getting a good pretend pounding.
couldn't force myself to watch the entire video.
Posted by: foeclan
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June 11, 2010 3:56 PM
Now now. Not one of them appeared to be underage.
Posted by: Numad
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June 11, 2010 3:56 PM
Why did Donohue have to go and say something I agree with? And by that I mean the induced vomitting.
Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe
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June 11, 2010 3:56 PM
I suspect he simply means it's ok to make fun of Muslims and appropriate their cultural heritage/symbols; but it's not ok to do that to Catholics, because Catholics are specialPosted by: toth
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June 11, 2010 3:59 PM
And with the other, he lovingly caresses his...cross.
Posted by: frisbeetarian
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June 11, 2010 3:59 PM
Now I understand why the Catholic Church protects child rapists. You see, Bill, it isn't rape if they are all consenting adults, get it? If it with children, it is rape, even if they aren't dressed in weird outfits or dancing.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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June 11, 2010 4:03 PM
that was remarkably crappy
Posted by: mistereveready
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June 11, 2010 4:04 PM
someone should send bill that link to the video pz posted about deaf children and priest. the one with the catchy tune.
Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe
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June 11, 2010 4:05 PM
huh. wouldn't have guessed that's what he meant.Posted by: Romeo Vitelli
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June 11, 2010 4:05 PM
I probably would have no idea who Bill Donohue even is if it weren't for this blog. Maybe Donohue should hire PZ as a publicist.
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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June 11, 2010 4:06 PM
Oh, jeez. I was afraid of that. It'd have to be the most cynical possible interpretation.
Posted by: JackC
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June 11, 2010 4:08 PM
Ace of Bass! Thank you! I was trying to remember who that video reminded me of - musically that is.
Nice pair of guns she has there.
Beyond that, .... meh.
JC
Posted by: Blondin
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June 11, 2010 4:08 PM
I have to side with Big Bill on a few points: I don't care for Lady Gaga and I don't care for this video. However, unlike Billy, I intend to react to it by... not watching. Ho-hum.
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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June 11, 2010 4:10 PM
I just clicked on the link to the press release and discovered that Donohue's organization name is The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.
He seems to be a bit unclear on the actual definition of civil rights. Last I checked, I don't have a constitutional right not to be made fun of.
Posted by: Newfie
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June 11, 2010 4:11 PM
Billy left out a couple of key words.
Posted by: Moggie
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June 11, 2010 4:11 PM
Lady Gaga was born in Manhattan. The Empire State Building is in Manhattan. Now, if they could be persuaded to commemorate her...
Posted by: tigerhawkvok.myopenid.com
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June 11, 2010 4:11 PM
Ugh. I came to see if anyone else came to that conclusion. I thought I had to be interpreting that wrong.
Posted by: Greta Christina
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June 11, 2010 4:12 PM
Love this. Have only had a chance to see it once, so the full-on analysis will have to wait... but what's not to like about a kinky bisexual woman who loves gay men (trying to avoid the phrase "fag-hag") in a latex nun's habit?
And I wish I could be surprised when Donohue issues weaselly excuses for the Church's child- rape- enabling... and then works himself up into a lather of righteous indignation over a freaking music video. His working definition of "good" and "evil" seems to be "anything at all that the Catholic Church does" and "anything at all that criticizes, questions, or mocks the Catholic Church." Not the most solid ethical foundation on the planet.
I will agree with Donohue about this, though:
Love the video... but the song itself, alas, is rather weak.
Posted by: PZ Myers
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June 11, 2010 4:13 PM
I like Gaga's music much more than I do her videos, which tend to go a bit far overboard.
But yes, otherwise, no problem if some people don't care for it at all. It's pop. Ten years from now it will be forgotten or the stuff of novelty songs.
Posted by: Moggie
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June 11, 2010 4:18 PM
I assumed the "treating us like Muslims" line was a clumsily-constructed piece of fatwa-envy. Longer Donohue: "Muslims deserve this kind of disrespect, since theirs is a false religion, but Gaga wouldn't dare do that, and the benign, harmless Catholics are a safer target".
Posted by: Nerdette
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June 11, 2010 4:20 PM
As I listened, I couldn't help but think to myself, "Are the 90s coming back?!"
Posted by: Holbach
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June 11, 2010 4:20 PM
That religious cretin Dungohue(Dung, as in excrement) is so outraged, why doesn't he get his god to smite Lady Gaga on the spot during one of her outrageous performances? The Empire State Building, run by mere mortals, proved to be to big for his god so now he takes on a gyrating female who laughs at his god and him. What a piece of crap, and I reiterate that he does not have the guts to post here, with or without his god.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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June 11, 2010 4:24 PM
Apparently a Danish performer was pelted with eggs by young Muslim men because she performs under the name of Medina. They considered it an offence to Islam.
A coupla (Muslim) politicians have come out saying the the young men are the offence to Islam, and that if using a name of Islamic background was course for anti-Islamic behaviour, then they ought to stand outside the courts pelting every Muhammed convicted for a crime with eggs. Link in Danish.
Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau
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June 11, 2010 4:24 PM
I guess Donohue doesn't want to know about the entire subset of catholic perversion fetish stuff going on in bedrooms across (probably the whole world).
She's also "deeply religious" or something like that. Or spiritual. She really believes in God but is looking for that church that does it right. I dunno, some one forwarded me an interview. I guess what she means is she is obsessed with teleology or something like that.
Can't read my, can't read my, oh you can't read my poker face...
Posted by: mistereveready
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June 11, 2010 4:24 PM
@jadehawke would have helped if i had posted the video but it slipped my mind. either way i'm all for a piss off donohue day. or pass out pamphlets of chastity belts out at catholic schools, not to curb teenage sex, but to give priest blue balls.
Posted by: Peapoh
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June 11, 2010 4:25 PM
@ #4
Noooooo. I thought she was smarter than that. >.
I thought the video was a bit cliched and the song is too Ace of Base for me but if it gets Donohue's panties in a bunch, I can appreciate it on some level haha.
Admittedly I have jumped on the Gaga is awesome bandwagon regardless. She is very entertaining.
Posted by: Qwerty
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June 11, 2010 4:27 PM
Bill still can't get the Empire State Building to light up for Mother Teresa but he complains that they've done it for Cardinal O'Connor's death, Pope John Paul's death, the Christmas season, and St. Patrick's day all the while berating Malkin, the building's owner, for being... anti-Catholic!
Posted by: natural cynic
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June 11, 2010 4:27 PM
It sounds more than a little bit like ABBA.
And the outfit she wears at the beginning - she makes a cute Borg, but not even close to Seven of Nine.
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 11, 2010 4:27 PM
Meh. Madonna called to ask for her old videos back.
Posted by: Michelle R
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June 11, 2010 4:27 PM
I hate Lady Gaga, but hey, if it pisses Donohue off I'm sure giving it a watch!
Posted by: Hank
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June 11, 2010 4:33 PM
I found both the song and the visuals rather boring. Had Bill Donohue just kept his mouth shut, the whole thing would have gone away in about two minutes. Anyhow, Ms. Gaga's audience (if she has one) are a product of American education and they have no idea what the "symbols" represent. I kinda thought she was a Borg. She DOES have a striking simularity to Patrick Stewart.
Posted by: BdN
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June 11, 2010 4:37 PM
I took it as meaning "treating us like Muslims treat us".
Posted by: JSC_ltd
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June 11, 2010 4:40 PM
*yawn*
Madonna did that 20 years ago.
*yawn^2*
Bill Donohue outraged by it.
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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June 11, 2010 4:43 PM
There is an absolutely fascinating analysis of the video here, specifically about how it subverts the male gaze and pays homage to Madonna while completely flipping around everything she did in the video to be more female-empowered.
Posted by: MrFire
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June 11, 2010 4:44 PM
Well, let's put it right up against the standard that Madonna set.
Gang-banging S+M Nun vs. Making Out with Black Jesus? Close call...
And concerning Lady Gaga's songs, my favorite is Poker Face.
Posted by: Orac
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June 11, 2010 4:45 PM
What the hell is it with the machine guns barrels sticking out of her bra in one of the dance scenes?
Posted by: Robin (not Robyn)
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June 11, 2010 4:46 PM
I'm congenitally in favor of anything that pisses Bill Donohue off.
By the way, Bill, Mother Theresa is still a big goddamn fraud.
You have that in common with her. Go get yourself another fake outrage hard-on.
Posted by: Orac
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June 11, 2010 4:48 PM
Actually, looking at this video it occurs to me that Lady Gaga's turning into Madonna is complete. All the silliness intended to "shock" her audience is there, and the music is no better.
Posted by: jcmartz.myopenid.com
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June 11, 2010 4:54 PM
Grow up, Bill. I see you have no trouble defending and shilling for pederast/pedophile priests and you can't take a mere song.
Posted by: Orac
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June 11, 2010 4:55 PM
Maybe. Maybe not. I thought the same thing about Madonna's music in the 1980s, and now she's considered a grande dame of pop and dance music and her tunes from the 1980s and 1990s "classics."
Posted by: Ribozyme
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June 11, 2010 4:58 PM
I do like Lady Gaga, although I haven't had a chance to look at the video, as it isn't available in my country. But her videos, besides cool, are good material for some extreme humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsjiNl-Zsw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_IHDNC988M
Besides, two things can be said about her that could never be said of Madonna, that she is gorgeous and that she has a beautiful voice.
Posted by: MrFire
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June 11, 2010 5:01 PM
Great, a gazillion people beat me to various things (although Aquaria - you didn't link to Like A Prayer?)
Rule of Cool, though YMMV. Also, Fembot rip-off.
Posted by: seanpatgallagher.myopenid.com
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June 11, 2010 5:02 PM
As a gay guy, I'm sub-culturally expected to go gaga for GaGa but honestly, she's got about as much appeal to me as a major appliance.
I think it was Tom Ford who referred to her fashion as "post-human", and that's exactly the feeling I get from her.
As for her troupe of male dancers: sorry boys, no amount of calisthenics can save you from a bad hair-cut or silly dance moves. How did you keep from giggling during production?
As for Bill Donohue, the product he markets is moral outrage. If Lady GaGa didn't exist, he'd have to create her.
I'm sure GaGa will be pleased to know her video had the desired effect.
-S
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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June 11, 2010 5:03 PM
Don't look at me; my money was riding on Cyndi Lauper.
(I stay out of the stock market too.)
Posted by: PZ Myers
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June 11, 2010 5:03 PM
I haven't heard a thing about Madonna in years and years. I concede that she isn't completely forgotten and I'm sure she still has fans, but her music is 20-30 years ago. And Elton John is 40 years ago. And the Beatles are going on 50 years ago. I'm not disparaging them to say that they are no longer vibrant forces in the contemporary music scene.
And that stuff Sven listens to...jebus. Weird.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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June 11, 2010 5:10 PM
Oh, I've got weird all right. You want weird, I can deliver.
Posted by: MikeS29
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June 11, 2010 5:11 PM
Well, I never heard of her until today. And thanks to Bill Donohue, I am suddenly very bi-curious. Thanks!
Posted by: nonsensemachine
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June 11, 2010 5:12 PM
God I'm forced to say Lady Manson is the lesser of two evils here. Both she and Donahue are just looking for attention, though. Shame on your for encouraging both of them.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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June 11, 2010 5:12 PM
Lady Gaga certainly has a flamboyant personality, even if her music is not to my taste. Still, anything that gets Donohue into a frothing, apoplectic frenzy is something I am generally in favour of as a point of principle.
His post is certainly revealing...
As PZ says;
Only I think that Bill would probably be muttering under his breath "why can't they get that damned woman out of the way..."
So the whole Draw Mohammed Day thing was just a figment of our collective imaginations then? Or perhaps it is as Jadehawk, OM says @ 17;
And here we get to the trademark Donohue misogyny...
Because rape is always the fault of the victim. It is an evil conspiracy of women to force poor, innocent men to sexually abuse them. Just imagine the harm it does to the poor chaps, forced to rape a woman like that. Heartlesss harridans. It is not as though rape can occur without the woman conspiring to make it so, after all. And, less we forget, stylisied, simulated copulation in a music video is entirely comparable to actual sexual assault, so sayeth Bill, font of fundie idiocy. I bet Bill is just glad that it was not some man forcing other men to rape him, that would have been truly ungodly, after all. Now, child rape, on the other hand, that is the sport, not of kings, but of the Catholic priesthood, and so is an entirely different matter...
If one ignores the red herring about 'talent', we see here how Bill denotes the worth of a woman; her level of physical attractiveness according to the aesthetic standards of Bill. I bet Lady Gaga is supremely relieved that she is not Bill's type. I would not wish sex with him on anyone. Well, maybe a threesome with Bill O'Reilly and Anne Coulter. They truly deserve each other, afterall.
And que the inevitable fatwah-envy to finish...
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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June 11, 2010 5:13 PM
Kinda reminds me of the CAPAlert guy. Although, I don't think the "replay" aspect applies for him, since he's watching movies in the theater one time only (as far as we know) and has been openly begging for money for a decade or more. On the other-other-hand, I do wonder why he feels the need to screen so many R-rated movies when he seems to be most interested in pointing out instances where the MPAA has low-balled the rating (his dreaded "R-13").
And here's a little blast from the past--anyone remember The Brunching Shuttlecocks?
Posted by: mothwentbad
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June 11, 2010 5:14 PM
Huh? It really looks like GaGa is playing switch to me. Overall, she appears to be exercising one kiloBaptist worth of agency here.
Posted by: PZ Myers
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June 11, 2010 5:15 PM
I do still listen to Cyndi Lauper. She's got some of the cheeriest pop around.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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June 11, 2010 5:16 PM
Oh, and just a point of clarification: "muscular young men gyrating in jackboots and tight shorts and nothing else"
I am currently having some Linux/Flash/YouTube issues and was only able to see the first few seconds of the video so far, but that dude with his legs on the table was clearly also wearing fishnet stockings. But he wasn't gyrating at that moment so I guess you're technically correct.
Posted by: Rorschach
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June 11, 2010 5:18 PM
It's pop music ! The fact that intellectuals on scienceblogs(and Bill Donahue) talk about it would seem to indicate it's working...:-)
Posted by: Christy
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June 11, 2010 5:19 PM
Wait, did no one notice the most pathetic, schoolyard insult Bill pulled out of his ass?
Basically he said, "Oh, and she's ugly too, nyah nyah!"
How pathetic.
I hated the song. The video was somewhat interesting, but seemed to be much more concerned with fascism than Catholicism per se (not that they haven't been cozy).
Posted by: Form&Function
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June 11, 2010 5:19 PM
Carlie @#47
Thanks for linking to that analysis over at Fatshionista. Of course Fatshionista is all kinds of wonderful for many reasons, but I found that a really good read, and more than worthwhile for anyone saying Lady Gaga is just a Madonna rip-off.
Posted by: acastcia
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June 11, 2010 5:20 PM
What a boring piece of shit music. I wonder if Madonna is going to claim copyrights. On the other hand I like it just because Bill don't.
But seriously, I can't understand the sucess of this kind of zombie clone "music".
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 11, 2010 5:22 PM
I listen to her as well for that very reason.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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June 11, 2010 5:25 PM
Did anyone see Lady Gaga on Saturday Night Live some months ago? During her (I think) second set, she was wearing this cumbersome outfit with a bunch of concentric rings around her torso. Then she sat down at the piano and it was *clank* *clank* *fidget* *clank *fidget* *clank* *clank* before she started playing. Amused the hell out of me.
Posted by: Roger
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June 11, 2010 5:26 PM
I hated the video. First, I found the images repetitive; then I got so bored with the video, I started paying attention to the song itself. Jesus Muhammad Ali Christ, what a boring song! It took me two attempts to get through the whole damn video--I swear, watching the whole Lord of the Rings trilogy (extended editions!) was less tedious than watching this nine minute "homage" (or whatever the hell it was supposed to be).
That Bill Donohue and Katy Perry (seriously--she tweeted about her anger) are up in arms about this is amazing to me. There's nothing there to get upset about. It's a vapid video that's *trying* to be shocking--it's like she's fairly screaming "I'm just as edgy as Madonna was twenty years ago! Look at me!!"
Posted by: Newfie
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June 11, 2010 5:32 PM
bahh.... dance music. It's tribal (A nice beat that I can dance to, Dick).
gimme some real talent, virtuosity, and technique.
Plus, it just kicks ass.
Posted by: aduzik.myopenid.com
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June 11, 2010 5:32 PM
I like it. But as a fuh-laming homosexual I'm expected to, right? Even if you don't like it, you have to admit it's interesting to look at, even if in a bad way. For example, did you notice the lithe young men in the bedroom/rape scene are wearing high heels? Interesting!
The whole thing, especially the nun bit and the bit where she's dancing in a pantsuit, is a great big sloppy wet kiss to Madonna. And really, while Madge still did it better, it's lovely to see Gaga acknowledge her roots while putting her own spin on it.
Plus: gun boobs! Come on. How can you not love that?
Posted by: steve
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June 11, 2010 5:37 PM
You mean they're over ?
Why didn't anyone tell me ?
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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June 11, 2010 5:46 PM
It's almost as if they still don't get that their Catholic torture imagery is ripe for sexuality, and their hundreds of years of repression only make it more so. And that winding Catholics up with said sexualization is so fun and EASY.
Funny how Donohue has to concede that Madonna was talented, though. I guess because her music has been around for twenty-plus years now, so now it's vintage.
Posted by: Orac
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June 11, 2010 5:47 PM
You obviously haven't been paying attention, then.
Posted by: Zoot Capri
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June 11, 2010 5:48 PM
Why is he watching pop music videos anyway? Isn't he supposed to be at church reading the bible or something?
Posted by: KingUber
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June 11, 2010 5:49 PM
At least he's right about one thing, Lady Caca has no talent whatsoever
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes
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June 11, 2010 5:49 PM
All I know is that I won't be letting any of that get into my ear.
Posted by: uuaschbaer
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June 11, 2010 5:53 PM
It's a piece of genius in my opinion. Not for the image quality or the composition or the colours, nothing like that. I like it because it manages to identify archetypes from all corners of masculinity and femininity of men and women, mix and match characteristics of all of them in a way that is completely destructive to them, leveling the playing field of society. (Gawd, reading that back it sounds like the most awful postmodernist drivel but I don't know how else to put it.)
The habit seemed to represent conformity, holier-than-thouty, respectability. In other words: Gaga is playing, being, Wilde, exactly what she should be doing as an artist.
Posted by: johnlil#0a224
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June 11, 2010 5:54 PM
This crap is what passes for art these days? I wouldn't let that freak in my home.
With that said, if she upsets Donohue, then I hope she keeps it up.
Posted by: Jonathan Figdor
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June 11, 2010 5:54 PM
PZ is a lady gaga fan? QTF!?!?!? Here's some Scandinavian Power Metal to clear the bad taste from your mouths: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSvikFvKY1I
Rock on.
Posted by: Insightful Ape
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June 11, 2010 5:59 PM
Good old fatwa envy at work again.
So does Billy want us to treat him as if he were the follower of a pedophilic war lord?
I didn't think so.
Posted by: barney.oran
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June 11, 2010 6:10 PM
"Like Madonna, Lady Gaga was raised Catholic and then morphed into something unrecognizable."
No, Bill. It's actually quite recognizable as someone struggling with the baggage of Catholicism. It's pretty common and very recognizable. Or... as the Red Hot Chili Peppers put it in a song from 25 years ago, Catholic School Girls Rule!
Posted by: Cygnus Tygger
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June 11, 2010 6:11 PM
You know, if the catholics were ever to choose to view sex as a good thing, they might be realize this sort of stuff is flattering.
Synagogue was never this appealing and no-one has ever given the star of David a blowjob.
Ouch. All those sharp points...
Posted by: Andromeda
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June 11, 2010 6:13 PM
This reminded me a lot of Marilyn Manson's Beautiful People video...admittedly the only song I've heard of his :P Donahue should check those out too.
Now I'm gonna go back to good ole death metal to clear out my ears: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7fDGga7zC0
Posted by: spaninquis
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June 11, 2010 6:15 PM
That did seem Madonna derivative. In fact, it sounded like a cross between Madonna and ABBA's Fernando.
Posted by: Dania
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June 11, 2010 6:17 PM
Wise decision, Antiochus Epiphanes. My curiosity made me click play even though I knew what was coming... *sigh*
Ah, thanks. That wasn't bad, actually.
Posted by: redrabbitslife
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June 11, 2010 6:19 PM
I thought it was a load of fun. But then, I'm nothing if not easily amused.
Posted by: pixelfish
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June 11, 2010 6:21 PM
Bill Donahue gets the fainty-faints over Catholic imagery being twisted and torqued for artistic purposes? Quick, somebody tell him about Warhammer 40K. I want to see the shit-fit Bill will throw when he sees the Sisters of Battle and the rest of the Ecclesiarchy. (Heavily Catholic imagery! Graven images! Roleplaying! Oh, he won't know where to start.)
I loves me Lady Gaga. Her Bad Romance video is one of my favourites, and I have to say she's done more to excite my interest in the music video art form than any artist in the last decade. (Last time I was getting really excited about music videos was because of Chris Cunningham, who incidentally directed Madonna's Frozen video.)
(I enjoy the BR video primarily because she's pretty blatant about who she's sending up--she takes on Madonna, Christina, Britney, and Amy Winehouse by turns. The end of Paparazzi has one of my favourite scenes in a music video ever, and then she revisited it with her campy Telephone video.)
Posted by: alysonmiers
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June 11, 2010 6:23 PM
I saw the video yesterday and while the visuals are pretty, its relationship to the song is barely discernible and the song is rather lame, anyway. (I really, really love Paparazzi, though, both the song and the video.)
However, BilDo? Get over yourself. The era in which the RCC could force everyone who didn't want to be tortured to death to genuflect in worship of Holy Mother Church is more than over. If your Church doesn't want to be mocked, it needs to give up a lot of power and visibility. It could simply stop abusing the power it has, for a start.
Posted by: Cygnus Tygger
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June 11, 2010 6:24 PM
Plus: gun boobs! Come on. How can you not love that?
Those were fun!! But I liked the red cross/dagger on the crotch of her underwear. Just in case someone needs a visual directions.
Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau
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June 11, 2010 6:29 PM
You guys... the 90's are retro now.
Deal.
Posted by: Sputnik
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June 11, 2010 6:32 PM
Gaga's music is a combination of Ace of Base, Madonna, and bad/cheesy 90s dance music. It's the type of pop that's been a regular thing on Eurovision song competitions for the last 20 years and no one ever cared. Gaga comes along in 2009 wearing some clown costumes and it's interesting all of a sudden. At least she provokes Donohue...but that doesn't take much.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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June 11, 2010 6:33 PM
*grumble* Wish I had a nickel for every time I've been told that...
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlBrE4CMRw9WtxZJv8xtyW593sgRso-R_I
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June 11, 2010 6:38 PM
Yeah, that song is totally insipid. But it's also hella catchy and still running through my head a couple hours later, so... mission accomplished, I guess?
And I'm sure she's just fine with that...Posted by: Standard Curve
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June 11, 2010 6:41 PM
No worse than any other pop dance music that I don't listen to. The video kept promising to be really interesting, but didn't. The music is too bouncy pop for such a dark video. Gotta agree on the "Ace of Base" call. But if it gets Donohue's panties in a bunch, it has some redeeming value.
As far as Gaga herself:
She's a Fembot!
"Machine gun Jubblies! How did I miss those, baby?"
Posted by: sophia-daniels
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June 11, 2010 6:41 PM
i want to like lady gaga... but her music is kinda bland... also i kinda prefer bdsm themed music videos that actually include some interesting bdsm stuff... like the singer suspended from the ceiling by hooks in zir back. or at least some body modification.... is that too much to ask for?!
also... i liked cartman's cover of poker face WAY WAY WAY better than the original... it had the energy and passion that most of gaga's music is missing.
Posted by: Chuck C
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June 11, 2010 6:42 PM
Holback #35:
Boy, it sure is a good thing you explained that, since we're not clever enough to figure it out ourselves..
Cygnus #93:Perhaps she made the video as an instructional aid for old Bill himself.
Posted by: Blake Stacey
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June 11, 2010 6:46 PM
"You'll read my / you'll read my / you can read my Neutra Face . . ."
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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June 11, 2010 6:50 PM
Pretty much what Aquaria said at 42...!
Posted by: Classical Cipher
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June 11, 2010 6:51 PM
I'm a huge huge huge Gaga fan. I think her music is middling, overprocessed (infuriatingly earworm) pop, and a lot of what she does appears to be weird-for-weird's sake (not that there's anything wrong with that), but I find her to be completely fascinating in terms of gender performance, sexuality, and pop-cultural references. But I'm one of those people who can, for instance, get grabbed by one interesting interpretation of one interesting shot in a music video, then spend the rest of the day preoccupied with what the rest of the artist's work would mean if it were interpreted in those terms. Not particularly valuable to the world at large, but hey, it helped me write my thesis, and it's tons of fun for me :) As far as I'm concerned, if Gaga can contribute in a positive way to my daily obsessing, I approve and support her. Plus, the Alejandro video was one huge sparkle of joy for me, as it managed to address almost every one of my major obsessions.
Nice to see it here, PZ.
Posted by: bybelknap
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June 11, 2010 6:52 PM
I give it a 7. Love the outfits, the Moe haircuts, and the "naughtiness." The music? meh.
Posted by: Rincewind'smuse
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June 11, 2010 6:54 PM
Heh,(snort)... Meh, I won't watch, she has a stronger voice than Madonna , but that's it....The general principle of making Bill shriek and run for the couch gets a big thumbs up, however...Posted by: Classical Cipher
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June 11, 2010 6:55 PM
@pixelfish,
Hi! Could you direct me to the Amy Winehouse video that Bad Romance references? I recognized Britney and Christina, and of course most of her stuff is pretty reminiscent of Madonna, but I don't know much about Amy Winehouse.
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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June 11, 2010 6:56 PM
Lady Gaga has responded to Bill Donkey-hole:
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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June 11, 2010 7:02 PM
Don't you mean "blah-blah-blah-bland"? Ah well, I love her music but it got old fast with everyone playing it all the time.
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 11, 2010 7:06 PM
Great, a gazillion people beat me to various things (although Aquaria - you didn't link to Like A Prayer?)
I was already at three. Posting a fourth would have put it into moderation. :(
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
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June 11, 2010 7:11 PM
Well, no. Actually, I only popped in here to post this:
(/Meow, Bill. Meow.)
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkZ6bud_2OWnH4ya1KYZ-QpvDKkqP4LTac
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June 11, 2010 7:27 PM
I keep waiting for Bill to pop an eyeball over Tim Minchin's newest Pope Song. So far, Bill is uncharacteristically quiet. He's either 1) not heard the song (unlikely) OR 2) heard it and scared to death to talk about it because he realizes that Minchin's lyrics about getting all incensed about a song that shows the pope's privates (albeit in cartoon form) but not getting incensed about the real privates of real people that were fondled in the whole sex-drenched clergy scandal, would hardly be productive to a man whose whole shtick involves "oh, poor me, I'm so put upon..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0
Posted by: nejishiki
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June 11, 2010 7:33 PM
> click on thread about Lady Gaga
> ctrl-f search for 'official spokesgay'
> no results found
So much for stereotypes!
Posted by: Betelgeuse
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June 11, 2010 7:33 PM
Pretty much some repetition here, but someone did the gun bra!
Wierd, because I've had that conversation with my friends, and now she does it!
Its a win for sure.
I started out being pretty dismissive about her and her music, because I thought it was about wierd for wierd's sake too; but you have to admit she starts to stick after a while.
Nothing like Bad Romance on the radio, a long autobahn in Germany at night, and some wacky robot moves that 'boy' secretly envies not being able to do due to having to drive. :D :D
And I do admire how she isn't afraid of letting out all that sexuality. No suppression, no inhibition, its cool.
Posted by: ashleyfmiller
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June 11, 2010 7:33 PM
I have a lot of respect for Lady Gaga. She's one of the few pop artists who actually writes her own music and became big by performing in grubby little clubs, rather than being "discovered", packaged and promoted.
She's really down to earth in her interviews, and she does a lot of interesting things with live and video performance. She is very much a performance artist as much as a musician, but she's very talented in the song writing department as well. Though I can't say this is my favorite of hers. That'd be Bad Romance.
She also has a lot of respect for, and uses a lot of references to, David Bowie, Elton John, Madonna, Michael Jackson and Cyndi Lauper. Plus, she promotes condom use and is highly entertaining in general.
Posted by: David Marjanović
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June 11, 2010 7:33 PM
Having watched the video (with the sound off) and even read the interesting analysis, I can only conclude that Donohue wishes she'd swallow that rosary. There's no evidence she does – she puts the whole thing into her mouth, and then comes a cut. A few more videos like that, and we'll know Donohue in- and outside…
No, four are allowed, and the fifth triggers moderation.
Posted by: LE
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June 11, 2010 7:35 PM
Funny, none of the Nuns I grew up with wore habits made out of translucent latex. I get the symbolism, but to me it really shouted "fetish" not "religious iconograpy". Maybe Mr. Donohue had a different experience?
(I was disappointed by the song - I like Lady Gaga. Pop music doesn't always do much for me but she's usually catchy - Bad Romance stuck in my head for weeks. But this one was just...meh.)
Posted by: Joe Fogey
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June 11, 2010 7:37 PM
There is presumably something duller than ditch water, and this was competing for the title. Poor old Bill (Talking of which. what was the guy in the spikey toy British policeman's hat supposed to be?). Lady gaga's about as sexy as the Con-Dem coalition.
Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes
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June 11, 2010 7:38 PM
Brownian #96: I don't get it but I giggled anyway. How fscked up is that?
Posted by: Evomonkey
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June 11, 2010 7:39 PM
Finds her way right to Papa Bill's home. He wants some of that red vinyl nun outfit action and probably some of those homoerotic dancers.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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June 11, 2010 7:40 PM
@#94 Ol'Greg
The 90's have been retro for nearly 15 years.
[dateline November 4, 1997] "We now face the unique situation of '90s retro, as evidenced by the current Jane's Addiction reunion tour: nostalgia for the decade in which we live."Posted by: Aquaria
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June 11, 2010 7:43 PM
Lady Gaga's turning into Madonna is complete. All the silliness intended to "shock" her audience is there, and the music is no better.
Madonna was pretty low on my fave artists list, but one of her throwaway hits like "Vogue" sounds like Beethoven's Ninth in comparison to what I've heard of Gaga. Madonna had some awesome people in the studio and writing songs for/with her. Gaga's stuff is more generic than Japanese girl band pop. It's pleasant enough as wannabe Madonna dance pop goes, but utterly unremarkable and forgettable.
Posted by: kaylakaze
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June 11, 2010 7:55 PM
I'm actually much more of a fan of GaGa's than of her music. I think she's an incredible artist. It's sad to hear that about Chopra.
Posted by: kaylakaze
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June 11, 2010 7:59 PM
Try this
Posted by: rufustfirefly66
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June 11, 2010 8:01 PM
Cyndi Lauper! Do you still she bop?
Posted by: stvs
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June 11, 2010 8:02 PM
If you browse over to the Catholic League's site, be sure to enjoy their annual reports on anti-Catholicism, complete with cartoons!
Posted by: Classical Cipher
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June 11, 2010 8:06 PM
@kaylakaze
Thanks for that link, I really enjoyed that :)
Posted by: stvs
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June 11, 2010 8:09 PM
If you browse over to the Catholic League's site, be sure to enjoy their annual reports on anti-Catholicism, complete with cartoons!
Posted by: goldfishlaugh
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June 11, 2010 8:10 PM
I think it's most disturbing that he claims there is rape going on in this video. Nothing looks non-consensual to me. Rough sex isn't automatically rape.
Posted by: Kirk
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June 11, 2010 8:12 PM
Well, I have name invention envy. And regardless what you think about her music, or her videos, or her taste in clothing ... Lady Gaga is a great name.
Even if you don't know what she does, if somebody asks you, "Lady Gaga is playing at the xyz tonight, you going?", you'd be interested.
Posted by: pixelfish
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June 11, 2010 8:22 PM
@angel It's not a specific video of Amy's I'm thinking of, but rather the final scene, where I think she looks like a dead-ringer for Amy. (If memory serves, Gaga dyed her hair blonde to avoid Amy Winehouse comparisons.)
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkizC4OJEQODw9Rn2-9Ccz5-1lYymHaqFs
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June 11, 2010 8:39 PM
If you're not secure in your sexuality, you should neither participate in, nor view, a Lady Gaga video.
Since insecure sexuality is one of the defining characteristics of Catholicism, I would have to agree with Mr. Donohue:
The video is anti-catholic.
(Though personally I thought the video was channelling quite a bit of Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation at the beginning - long before and much more so than it went Madonna-ish.)
DTK Greg.
Posted by: Perspexo
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June 11, 2010 8:44 PM
Musically I can take or leave Lady Gaga but I like her whole persona. Life as performance art sounds good to me.
And if she's pissing of the cat lickers, all the better!
Posted by: zombiegirl2010
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June 11, 2010 8:52 PM
I just watched Alejandro for the first time here.
I'm so incredibly turned on now! Gag is HOT!
Posted by: Aquaria
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June 11, 2010 8:53 PM
Madonna was pretty low on my fave artists list, but one of her throwaway hits like "Vogue" sounds like Beethoven's Ninth in comparison to what I've heard of Gaga.
Yawn. Pretty enough, but, again in a generic way. It's like listening to Richard Marx with a piano and female voice.
Posted by: Doktor Zoom
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June 11, 2010 8:57 PM
Mike @ #3 asks,
I think this video is all about Ho-Moe eroticism.
Posted by: Andrew Hall
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June 11, 2010 8:58 PM
Catholics are not in the position to talk about morality to anyone.
Pediphiles and cover ups maybe, morality no.
http://laughinginpurgatory.blogspot.com/2010/06/quote-from-interview-with-cathoic-fixer.html
Posted by: JHS
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June 11, 2010 9:12 PM
I'm an unabashed Gaga fan, and while this isn't my favorite video of hers, it's still pretty damn impressive in the context of the usual pop product.
Donahue could work himself into a frothing rage over "A Prairie Home Companion," so no surprise he's blathering on about this.
Posted by: Naranda
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June 11, 2010 9:17 PM
I didn't care for Lady Gaga at ALL until I took a History of Fashion course at my university. Now I can't get enough of her. In my opinion, given the historical context, she is the only logical step for fashion to take: bat-fucking nuts and proud of it. Take one look at Burgundian fashion and tell me I'm wrong.
That being said, I'm having a lot of fun reading the comments here from the people who don't like her, and they all seem to say the same thing: don't like it, won't watch, (yawn), next please.
Sensible people are so refreshing.
Posted by: Tim Harris
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June 11, 2010 9:19 PM
Ah, the Aubrey Beardsley hairstyles on those boys... But Beardsley did blasphemy far, far better than Madonna or Gaga. What really strikes me about this sort of video is that it's fundamentally derivative of late 19th-century Decadence - and in those days blasphemy meant something: the premiere in New York of Richard Strauss's Salome, in comparison with which Madonna and Gaga are cheap and tame (though some of their videos are fun, I agree), was suppressed by wealthy patrons - all Donohues to a man (or a woman.
Posted by: Quagmire
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June 11, 2010 9:19 PM
I've been wondering who this "Lady Gaga" is that I keep hearing about - so apparently she's some young singer-person. Pretty hot but her music sucks (like Britney Spears). Still I'd take her over Bill Donohue or Jesus anyday...
Posted by: frog, Inc.
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June 11, 2010 9:24 PM
The only place I even see "rough sex" is the gang-bang scene near the end. The rest just seems like vigorous sex.
What I find funny is the implication of "sexualizing" Catholic imagery. Are these people even self-aware? Catholicism isn't "ripe for" sexualizing -- Christianity is massively sexual.
For Christ's sake, their super-hero is a 30 year virgin who hangs out with a group of men, who is scourged, beaten, made to drink bitter herbs, has a crown of thorns placed on his head, then is nailed to a cross and speared in the side -- and then, 3 days later, he comes back. He yells out, and then his spirit "rises to God".
How many penis references are there in just that one scene? How much S&M is on-going?
How many saints and none are known to undergo "spiritual ecstasy" through "union with Christ"? Why does the fucking Pope wear a giant penis hat? And every Catholic family has statutes with Christ's face in agony and spiritual ecstasy.
No, these folks aren't pissed at sexualizing their comic book hero -- but of stealing it. The pop stars are co-opting their sexuality and turning it around by feminizing it.
Posted by: «bønez_brigade»
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June 11, 2010 9:36 PM
I counted 58 bleatings of the aforementioned "Alejandro".
Posted by: Tim Harris
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June 11, 2010 9:47 PM
I wonder what Donohue thinks of Bernini's Teresa: probably the most erotic piece of sculpture ever created, involving a woman, and unimpeachably Catholic... And then there is the spendid homo-eroticism of Michelangelo's works, which gave certain pontiffs funny feelings beneath their robes (and probably still does).
Posted by: Epikt
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June 11, 2010 9:47 PM
ChristineLynne:
Bill, Bill, Bill. If being ugly was a crime, you'd be doing fourteen consecutive life sentences.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 11, 2010 9:51 PM
I count myself fortunate that I have no idea who the hell Bill Donahoe is. I saw the headline and started thinking 'Phil Donahue isn't dead yet? Oh, wrong first name...' I had the same experience with Glenn Bleccch...Jeff Beck is having issues with Obama?. Didn't know who he is, but people keep paying these idiots attention and you end up with them in your synapses and then you can literally call your mind perverted. Ignore these assholes...they end up as fat, vicodin addicted morons that only other morons listen to, so let them slide down their 'slippery slope' of mental degradation and conservawhacko woomeistery. There's a big cesspool of tea-party sludge at the bottom filled with the likes of Coulter, O'Cryly, Dennis Miller and PZ's evil twin. Don't fill it anymore.
Posted by: dexitroboper
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June 11, 2010 9:52 PM
Hey if you want weird videos with Catholic imagery, try this.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 11, 2010 10:07 PM
dexitroboper: Are you sure that wasn't a trailer from a new Yahoo Serious production? I couldn't tell it apart from the trailers of Reckless Kelly, Mr. Accident or Young Einstein. Maybe it's an aussie thing. I hope this new vehicle has a sequence as funny as the opening credits of Mr. Accident...I laughed for days. Wait...What? What do you mean this video wasn't supposed to be funny?
Posted by: nerdiah
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June 11, 2010 10:09 PM
Catholic apologist can't tell the difference between rape and not-rape - headline at 6.
Posted by: A. Noyd
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June 11, 2010 10:13 PM
Cygnus Tygger (#86)
Well, obviously a blow job is the wrong sort of oral to use on a star of David. No sharp points if you're flicking your tongue through the middle.
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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June 11, 2010 10:21 PM
Finally, thanks to PZ, saw my first Lady Gaga video. I like the lesbian robots better.
Where can I get a bra like that? And why do all the guys have the Moe Stooge haircut?
Posted by: Ribozyme
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June 11, 2010 10:29 PM
I LOVE this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF9A2OTZr0o
She sounds so vulnerable that I just want to hug her and let her cry on my shoulder.
And the least one can say is that she's ugly (just check this frame in which she's wearing almost no make up) or fake and shallow, as this interview with Barbara Walters shows.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmVT1LBhwmO9ej9LNg7a5e9d-AVJ8ezfmE
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June 11, 2010 10:31 PM
I miss Grace Slick.
Posted by: A. Noyd
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June 11, 2010 10:32 PM
Given the religious stuff, maybe the moe hair is supposed to be monk hair.
Posted by: dexitroboper
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June 11, 2010 10:37 PM
McCthulhu it's a promo for the film Spirits Of The Air, Gremlins Of The Clouds by Alex Proyas. I think there's there is a wry sense of humour involved.
Posted by: TVS
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June 11, 2010 10:52 PM
Who cares what the video means? I'm just watching it for the man meat on display. *drools*
Posted by: mistereveready
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June 11, 2010 11:09 PM
wtb express mail a copy of this to donohues door >_>.
Posted by: mistereveready
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June 11, 2010 11:32 PM
bleh my forgotten html skills have failed me.
#155 link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5QqEmBi8iw
Posted by: octopod
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June 11, 2010 11:41 PM
Nice video. I don't think I saw her "get raped by S&M boyfriends" though -- it was clear they were gyrating for her amusement.
I watched it on mute while listening to Caetano Veloso instead, though, so maybe I liked it better than I should have.
But what do Muslims have to do with it? I mean, wouldn't doing an equivalent thing with Muslim religious symbols be "treating Muslims like Catholics", given the Madonna precedent?
Posted by: ColonelZen
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June 11, 2010 11:48 PM
Did the imagery have anything to do with the song at all? It's old now, but for dark religious imagery in a song, but related to the song, I much prefer Sarah Brightman and Chris Thomson doing "How Can Heaven Love Me". No explicit sex but lots of overt sexiness. Her more recent "Fleurs du Mal" shares the theme as well as some local serendipity. Oh and she can really sing. (Lady Gaga can sing OK, but this song didn't show it that I could see and she's nowhere near the vocal class as Brightman)
-- TWZ
Posted by: Seifer
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June 11, 2010 11:49 PM
Reminds me of how much Lady Gaga sucks... although that's not nearly as much sucking as the Catholic Church or their altar boys do.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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June 12, 2010 12:09 AM
*makes the sign of protection from Evil*
Posted by: MJP
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June 12, 2010 12:15 AM
Pop music suffers from it's own version of Poe's Law - you can't tell the parody from the real thing.
Posted by: DLC
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June 12, 2010 12:16 AM
no thanks to Gaga.
No Thanks to Billy-Boy or the RCC either.
of the two, I think I'd rather have
Lady Gaga and her "shock value" than Billy Boy and his pedophiles.
hey wait... Billy and the Pedos... now there's a punk band name waiting to happen!
Posted by: Shala
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June 12, 2010 12:30 AM
I can't say I'm a fan of Gaga despite being LGBT, but I fucking love this reaction image of her.
Posted by: Aaron Baker
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June 12, 2010 12:38 AM
This reminds me of an impulse I had regarding that Godawful movie, 300. I wanted to go to a multiplex where it was playing about halfway in and shout from the back of the theater, "More gay! I must have more gay!"
Posted by: Classical Cipher
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June 12, 2010 1:04 AM
@MJP
You sum it up nicely! May I borrow that, if I credit you?
Posted by: mulder
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June 12, 2010 1:13 AM
Well, that proved my theory that I'd rather invite Bill and the Mrs. round for an evening for drink and conversation, than ever see / hear Gaga under any circumstances.
PZ, you seem to love to tear a hole for any pure sciences' adulteration. Why not music? Can't we get people interested in music that doesn't merely hawk dance classes, latex, nazism and rape, for example?
Posted by: Classical Cipher
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June 12, 2010 2:08 AM
mulder,
[fangirl]
First of all, I take issue with your assessment of Gaga's message, because I think you're overlooking a great deal of interesting content. Your assertion about what her work accomplishes is demonstrably groundless, and for that reason, the complaint you voiced in your exhortation to PZ is similarly groundless.
[/fangirl]
Much more importantly, do not fucking conflate consensual BDSM/rough sex between adults with rape. For fuck's sake. It's not just you - I saw it done a few times above, including by Bill Donohue. Other people have pointed it out repeatedly, so you have no excuse. They're not the same. Stop it.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 12, 2010 2:24 AM
Well, if Eric Clapton IS god, I see him making no moves to smite the people responsible for this video or music, so this Bill Don-Ho or whatever his name is should just freakin' relax. I doubt that this current music will ever have any staying power anyway...not a single note is ever written while someone is on acid anymore.
Posted by: RBH
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June 12, 2010 2:54 AM
Hm. I thought it sounded like part of an ABBA tribute album.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/yJNTxfs5j.KZJAp9er13NOGPJqo-#d62e3
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June 12, 2010 3:09 AM
Half of the images in the video are lifted from The Night Porter (1974) and the rest from Madonna, who lifted them from Metropolis, Horst P. Horst and a bunch of other places. I like to see shirtless boys in boots as much as the next gay guy, but this is getting old, fast. Gaga has done the Night Porter references before even more directly.
I agree with many of the comments here that Gaga's music is painfully banal and generic. She's obviously a great performer and she's got a good voice (much stronger than Madonna's). Maybe one day she'll get a good song.
Lest the truth be forgotten, here's the iconic nazi chic from The Night Porter (Gaga's got nothing on Charlotte Rampling):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzAxKirwUL8
Posted by: John Frum
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June 12, 2010 3:56 AM
I'm old I guess; I don't get it.
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 4:17 AM
There is an absolutely fascinating analysis of the video here, specifically about how it subverts the male gaze - Carlie
*snort*
Yeah, right. I felt my male gaze being, like, totally subverted, watching her prancing about in her underwear.
First Lady Gaga song I've ever consciously listened to, and first video of hers I've ever watched. Pfft.
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 4:21 AM
And the Beatles are going on 50 years ago. - Pz
...and still far more talented and orignal than any more recent pop. Sad.
Posted by: Icaria
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June 12, 2010 4:24 AM
"Daaaad, the artists are picking on me, again".
"..."
"Dad?"
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 4:35 AM
Even if you don't like it, you have to admit it's interesting to look at, even if in a bad way. - aduzik
No, I really, really don't have to admit that. It's derivative crap.
Plus: gun boobs! Come on. How can you not love that?
I admit that elicited a brief snort of laughter - but even that idea, I've seen somewhere before.
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 4:48 AM
I like it because it manages to identify archetypes from all corners of masculinity and femininity of men and women, mix and match characteristics of all of them in a way that is completely destructive to them, leveling the playing field of society. (Gawd, reading that back it sounds like the most awful postmodernist drivel - uuaschbaer
That's because it is the most awful postmodernist drivel. Come on, this is just uber-commericalised bilge, entirely free of talent or originality. I wonder how much the company paid Bill Donahue and Leslie Kinzel (fatshionista) for their respective puff-pieces. Probably nothing - people that stupid are so easily manipulated.
Posted by: SEF
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June 12, 2010 4:55 AM
@ Joe Fogey #117:
That would be very very sexy indeed then, judging by the huge amount of fan-girling all over (the UK bits of) the internet and with the BBC apparently leading the charge to "slash" the two leaders at every available opportunity!
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 5:01 AM
Lady Gaga is a great name. - Kirk
Always makes me think of Margaret Thatcher.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 12, 2010 5:08 AM
If Lady GAAAAAAaaa (I can't say her name without hearing the Wilhelm Scream now) didn't cut it for you, check out Andy Rehfeldt's channel on YouTube where he's 'tweaked' the music a bit...just a bit...ahem.
This is her song Poker Face and you can tell where he's going with it when Andy renamed it 'Polka Face.'
Also check out Andy's new Loungy-Jazzy version of Metallica's 'Enter Sandman' (on the sidebar). It's a gooder
http://www.youtube.com/user/AndyRehfeldt#p/u/14/Cr8KiihK3ks
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 5:09 AM
(Talking of which. what was the guy in the spikey toy British policeman's hat supposed to be?) - Joe Fogey
Yes, I wondered about that.
Lady gaga's about as sexy as the Con-Dem coalition.
I think you need to ask Walton about that!
Posted by: morebeerplease
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June 12, 2010 5:28 AM
This song by Lady Gaga is dull, dull, dull. I struggled to watch/listen to all of it. As well as the Janet Jackson references (which I didn't spot) and the obvious Abba quotes, there's also Vittorio Monti's Czardas at 1:04. Madonna's dance routines were better too. This sort of pretty girl, handsome men, sexy song-and-dance pop video hasn't really changed much in 30 years. Perhaps I'm getting too old to put up with repetitious and derivative stuff any more, but at least I can appreciate its appeal, and cut to about 3 minutes it might have been enjoyable. I can at least be confident that despite my advancing years I'm not so thoroughly decomposed as Mr Donohue.
Posted by: shonny
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June 12, 2010 6:06 AM
Thought that was a case of 'six of one, half a dozen of the other'!
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/wmdkitty#83021
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June 12, 2010 6:14 AM
Naturalcynic@41 -- NO ONE can be as freakin' awesome as Seven of Nine.
Posted by: uuaschbaer
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June 12, 2010 6:25 AM
That's because it is the most awful postmodernist drivel. Come on, this is just uber-commericalised bilge, entirely free of talent or originality. I wonder how much the company paid Bill Donahue and Leslie Kinzel (fatshionista) for their respective puff-pieces. Probably nothing - people that stupid are so easily manipulated. –––Knockgoats
It's very commercial but it still needs to create a stir to make money. People don't care for talent, they care about the message the video sends and how others react to it. It does need some originality but talent would hardly be helpful. By liking this video people take a stand against, for instance, Donohue, if the possibility exists that people like this video for its musical and graphical merits then it can't function as a way of expressing your opposition to Donohue and the like. Like most of modern art it is purposefully distasteful.
Posted by: dahduh
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June 12, 2010 6:51 AM
Cool! Crucifix undies! That will be a jolly useful fashion trend - "X" marks the spot...
Posted by: tonysidaway
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June 12, 2010 6:55 AM
I had heard of Lady Gaga and was vaguely wondering what the fuss was about, so I popped over to the video and saw a pretty girl in amazing clothes cavorting with her even prettier gay boyfriends. So it's 1989 all over again.
I can't say I was impressed by the music, and of course Like a Prayer was an exceptionally good pop song with a very powerful video.
I don't think Gwen Stefani or Kylie Minogue need to worry, this just isn't in their league. But it's early days yet.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/wmdkitty#83021
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June 12, 2010 6:57 AM
@Jonathan Figdor (#83)
I see your Scandinavian Power Metal, and raise you Dio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkNl758-YM
Posted by: MosesZD
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June 12, 2010 7:08 AM
Well, as usual, the music sucks. This techno-pop, dance-beat shit got old in the 1980s. It hasn't gotten any better or fresher since.
I liked the costumes and the B&D stuff. That was interesting. But, unfortunately, the music ruined it.
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 7:13 AM
It does need some originality - uuaschbaer
Pity it doesn't have any, then. I mean, Nazi chic? Wow, like, how edgy.
By liking this video people take a stand against, for instance, Donohue
*snort* SRSLY? I'm sure that's really got him worried.
Posted by: moonkitty
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June 12, 2010 7:13 AM
@nigelTheBold #7:
I think your final speculation was the correct one. Evidently Billy Boy thinks that if we heathens continue to make fun of Christianity, Christians will just have to take up arms against us and it'll be our own damn fault.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/06/conservative-leaders-christians-comedy-central-islam-muhammad-cartoon-jesus.html
Posted by: MosesZD
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June 12, 2010 7:24 AM
My youngest listens to that and some German heavy-metal/death-metal stuff. She also listens to Opera, show-tunes, all kinds of stuff out of Japan I couldn't begin to classify and is more than happy with pretty much everything I listened to from the 1960's through 1990's, whether it's Tom Petty or my pre-sell-out-to-the-man punk collection (though as she's fairly pointed out, some of it really was as bad as my parents said...).
But Lady Gaga... She is a hack of limited talent and is nothing more than a product of "the big splash" industry in the music business. She will keep ramping up her shtick until, one-day, like every other artist who treads this path, she falls off or manages, like a few have, to actually become "good" entertainers.
My money is on Gaga fail.
Posted by: MosesZD
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June 12, 2010 7:29 AM
Now, THIS, is talent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uMnOdQYJwo&feature=fvst
Nothing huge production values and vocal stabilizers/modulators to hide behind. You've got it or you don't.
Posted by: MosesZD
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June 12, 2010 7:33 AM
Now, I bet Donahue would like this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O2OHozqgqE&feature=related
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 12, 2010 7:44 AM
I'm bemused by the comment at the end of Moonkitty's LA Times link:
"Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, warned that Comedy Central shouldn’t “confuse the civility of Christianity with weakness.""
I don't have that confusion. I'm pretty positive that Christians ARE weak; weak-minded and weak-willed. They can't bother to think for themselves and they can't get up off their knees long enough to walk over to the library and look up some comparative religious textooks and deconstructions of their religion to see how stupid the whole sham is. Such is the price of false comfort from this glib promise of seeing dead rellies handing you cookies when you die and being 'saved' from an imaginary man in red jammies with horns and a tail. You have to be a complete juvenile to be credulous to this stuff and therein lies the issue: a large majority of the religious set are indoctrinated as children. There is no chance for comparison or critique of the belief system. In a country that suggests one of its aspirations is freedom of religion, that should assume the premise that a child has the right to be exposed to alternate beliefs and philosophies that include no religion at all so they can make an informed decision as adults. Until that happens, freedom of religion is just a cheesy pretense since the god-fearing puppets will think they must suck up to their imaginary friend by putting little jimmy and jane through doomsday cult programming, and if you've read the bible and Revelations, anyone taking that crap literally is just a doomsday cultist.
Hmm...sorry for the tangential rant, but I got a kid coming up to school age and I can't imagine the crap I'm going to have to deprogram out of her from the rest of the little tykes that are being mentally abused with visions of hell and phony promises of immortality. Makes me sick. Which brings me back on topic since Nazi-Chic makes me sick as well. There's nothing sexy about Ilsa's S&M shtick if she's going to use it for genocide and the invasion of the Czechs and Poles!
Posted by: Brian, Defender of Tone Trolls
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June 12, 2010 7:56 AM
@McCthulhu
...I got a kid coming up to school age and I can't imagine the crap I'm going to have to deprogram out of her from the rest of the little tykes that are being mentally abused with visions of hell and phony promises of immortality. Makes me sick.
Move to Sweden. We moved from Ireland when the daughter was six and we were both hardish core godbots. Now she is 15, a full on humanist and both myself and the wife have been deprogrammed as well. She also got top marks in Biology, Science and Physics this year.
*beams proudly*
Sweden is where it's at!
Posted by: MosesZD
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June 12, 2010 8:09 AM
I used to have a practice in Los Angeles and then moved to Nashville and worked there from 1993 until I sold it a couple of weeks ago. So, unlike most people, I've got a lot of experience from the back-end of the music business.
Everything you say is true. All that crap that people write all those articles about to show how deep/offensive some piece-of-shit-music is, is literally put there for that benefit. These videos, these songs, these artist images... They are all manufactured, by a committee of production engineers, script-writers, consultants, etc. and then approved by management, just like any piece of junk food get at the grocery store.
A classic manipulator is Freddy DeMann (and his crew of cronies) did the same with Madonna, Michael Jackson, Lionel Ritchie and a few others. Each was either a nobody or out in the music business wasteland in a "career over" drift. DeMann took them, ripped-off a bunch of stuff and started ramping up the shock value until it turned on the artist and sabotaged their careers (only Madonna survived it fairly well, with Jackson flipping-out and the others falling back into obscurity).
Anyway, there's no "deep message" in that music. It's all just psycho-babble crap put there to hook people into believing the music is "deep."
If people want actual, deep music, they need to find the indies. They're the only ones who do it. Otherwise it's songs written by committee and approved by management being performed in videos written by committee and approved by management.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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June 12, 2010 8:30 AM
Brian, I wouldn't mind the Scandinavian lifestyle but I think I would develop this phobia of the Swedish Chef wanting to chase me around with a cleaver wanting to turn me into 'chicky sooooup!'
Posted by: Brian, Defender of Tone Trolls
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June 12, 2010 8:46 AM
Swedish Chef wanting to chase me around with a cleaver wanting to turn me into 'chicky sooooup!'
That only ever happens up in the arctic circle. The cities are safe:-)
Posted by: Epikt
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June 12, 2010 8:51 AM
MosesZD:
Ah. Kurt Gobang.
Posted by: Rowen
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June 12, 2010 9:35 AM
I would like to point out that Lady Gaga isn't exactly "talentless" as some of you have tried to point out. (just look at the video of her as Stephanie Germanotta, the girl from Long Island)
I don't know about other fields, but in the field of music, she's pretty damn smart. She *was* a writer for Britney Spears, and pretty much soaked up all she could learn and realized that "pretty girl + sexy dancing + crazy clothes = money." (notice how she quickly learned that Jessica Simpson quickly bombed, and Christina Ugly-Haira has had more limited success, while both being more talented then the Spears.) So, she died her hair blond, stopped singing so well, put in a back-beat, and got an army of gay men to tell everyone to listen to her. Pretty damn genius, I'd say. I wish I could do it.
Also, Alejandro is SUPPOSED to sound like ABBA and Ace of Base. It was meant to be a "tribute" (whatever the hell that means.).
No one has to like her, but I feel she deserves some props for being industry savy.
Posted by: Allister
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June 12, 2010 10:23 AM
We get a boring ABBAesque song with gay nazis, and media commentators talk about the return of the 'event video clip'. My oh my, how little gets us all excited these days.
Posted by: agentwhim
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June 12, 2010 10:27 AM
Isn't it about time for fundamentalist mathematicians to reclaim the plus sign from the Christians?
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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June 12, 2010 11:08 AM
Is the Catholic League ever not outraged?
Posted by: mulder
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June 12, 2010 1:32 PM
Hello A. K..
The music industry has been destroyed by puppets. Any causes endorsed are mere topics meant to sell to thirteen year olds.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Which means they're preaching to their own choir. Why? $$$$$!
As for consensual gang-bangs, yeah, I suppose you have a point, hoping it's merely a topic Ga's promoters and are clearly trying to give it legs. Otherwise, it already is. Readers with young teens take note.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnvZpi3nbsc
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 12, 2010 1:45 PM
No one has to like her, but I feel she deserves some props for being industry savy. - Rowen
I don't. All that means is that she's able to make money from people even more stupid than she is. So is any con-artist.
Posted by: Classical Cipher
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June 12, 2010 1:46 PM
@mulder,
I agree with you that the Lady's work is deeply commercial, and primarily driven by what sells, but I find it interesting and important anyway. The fact that it is meant to appeal to a broad base of people (in order that they should buy it) doesn't mean its actual content doesn't have any independent significance or value. But we can reasonably agree to disagree about that.
To the second point, thanks for acknowledging that there was a point there. I tend to be extremely explosive on the subject. I didn't quite understand the part from "hoping" on, though, sorry :( I'm precaffeinated so maybe that's it.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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June 12, 2010 2:35 PM
I managed to read about 50 sporadic comments.
I feel like the only human being with 0 opinion on Lady Gaga, not counting "If she's trans, good on her."
Posted by: David Marjanović
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June 12, 2010 2:42 PM
Thing is, if you aren't into S&M (or otherwise very familiar with it), you don't notice, because you don't even get the idea that "scourged, beaten, made to drink bitter herbs, has a crown of thorns placed on his head, then is nailed to a cross and speared in the side" could in any way, shape or form be sexy.
Similarly, that Freud's desperate-housewife patients interpreted everything as genitalia doesn't mean everyone does. Having read about Freud, I can tell you mean the spear, the nails, and the thorns, but I wouldn't have got such a silly idea on my own.
True, but the purpose got a life of its own several decades ago…
Posted by: Becky
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June 12, 2010 3:23 PM
This gives little Catholic boys something to masturbate to.
My guess is little Billy watched a large number of times.
Posted by: mdcurler
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June 12, 2010 5:20 PM
Raped? She looked like she was on top at times? I like Lady Gaga, one of the few performers today that has a "unique" style, at least she is a copy of Madonna and doesn't mind using what sells.
It was a video, I'd let my daughter watch, these catholics need a head adjustment.
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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June 12, 2010 6:45 PM
What's a Catholic symbol? Pope-on-a-rope soap?
Posted by: mikeybear
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June 12, 2010 7:46 PM
The video's strong Nazi overtones fit in nicely with any Catholick Church connection. Well done Gaga.
Posted by: Dae
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June 12, 2010 7:54 PM
I'm not a fan of her music (not bad, but not really to my taste), but DAMN that was some nice dancing. And where the hell Donohue got "rape" out of that, I dunno - there was some pretty heavy BDSM imagery, but very sensual and by all appearances CONsensual. Lady Gaga herself was portrayed as sexually dominant almost exclusively, by my interpretation anyway.
This video's an interesting example of a trend in sexuality portrayal that I like: men are allowed to be beautiful. In this particular case, they aren't just there as a backdrop for the (obviously highly sexualized) woman; they're a part of the aesthetics in their own right. There's a lot of (justified) outcry in the current era about the over-sexualization of women in media - but I highly differ from the feminists who push for an overall de-sexualization. Sexuality is a large part of life, even (and arguably, especially) for the sexually-repressed, and it deserves a place in artistic interpretation. The problem is the gender imbalance in it, and it hurts both men and women - the female-only norm restricts men even as it objectifies women.
Posted by: Dae
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June 12, 2010 7:58 PM
I'm not a fan of her music (not bad, but not really to my taste), but DAMN that was some nice dancing. And where the hell Donohue got "rape" out of that, I dunno - there was some pretty heavy BDSM imagery, but very sensual and by all appearances CONsensual. Lady Gaga herself was portrayed as sexually dominant almost exclusively, by my interpretation anyway.
This video's an interesting example of a trend in sexuality portrayal that I like: men are allowed to be beautiful. In this particular case, they aren't just there as a backdrop for the (obviously highly sexualized) woman; they're a part of the aesthetics in their own right. There's a lot of (justified) outcry in the current era about the over-sexualization of women in media - but I highly differ from the feminists who push for an overall de-sexualization. Sexuality is a large part of life, even (and arguably, especially) for the sexually-repressed, and it deserves a place in artistic interpretation. The problem is the gender imbalance in it, and it hurts both men and women - the female-only norm restricts men even as it objectifies women.
Posted by: moonkitty
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June 12, 2010 8:48 PM
@David Marjanović #210:
Freud's patients didn't do the interpreting. Freud did.
Posted by: Knockgoats
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June 13, 2010 6:54 AM
one of the few performers today that has a "unique" style, at least she is a copy of Madonna - mdcurler
Does not compute.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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June 13, 2010 7:20 AM
Bill Donahue makes a good living from being a professional indignant Catholic.
Posted by: mulder
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June 13, 2010 1:03 PM
A. K.
Yeah, made that clear as mud didn't I?
"hoping it's merely a topic and Ga's promoters are clearly trying to give it legs, otherwise, it's already accepted."
The grammar sucked too.
Hey, I've been injured and or sick for 9-1/2 straight months.
Posted by: Acronym Jim
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June 13, 2010 2:29 PM
My local favorite, Storm Large, could also inspire some outrage from Donohue. Especially if she is performing one of her more light-hearted numbers.
Of course, without the outrage, Bill Donohue would be out of a job.
Posted by: Anti_Theist-317
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June 13, 2010 3:50 PM
Dear Billy D,
If your god is real where is he? What could it find more offensive, disgusting, vile and hateful? Your god has tortured and punished people for much less, well so your holy book says.
With the motion of his finger he could abolish this woman, those who follow her, those who support her, those she supports. Yet your god sits impotent, pathetic and weak on his throne in an unknown location unable or unwilling to take action.
If your god is real he is a pussy. If your god is real he is a coward. If your god is real it is a pathetic hypocrite and now worthy of my respect. Leaders are those who are not afraid to take action when they know what they are doing is right. According to your holy book nothing in this video is right. Yet, your god is unable to do anything or unwilling. She makes millions while some old fat dude bitches about on the internet.
Fuck you and fuck your god.
Posted by: zorkfox
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June 13, 2010 4:09 PM
Wow. That was actually pretty awesome. I'm always impressed by how elaborate and artistic her videos/movies turn out to be.
Posted by: What Goes On
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June 13, 2010 5:36 PM
Knockgoats: ...and still far more talented and orignal than any more recent pop.
Phew, for a second I was worried I was going to get through the rest of the thread without seeing someone defend The Beatles.
Posted by: Patricia, OM
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June 14, 2010 1:04 AM
Could we do without using the P word?
There you go! Say coward when you mean coward. Thanks.
Posted by: Susan
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June 14, 2010 2:47 AM
*snort* Nice "touch"!Posted by: blu
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June 17, 2010 8:44 AM
No rape as far as I can see. I generally like her songs, although I am less fond of this one than others. Her videos are always interesting to say the least. People have mentioned the copying of Madonna, but it was clear to me that this video intentionally copies Madonna overtly. I mean, the "Vogue" moves are a dead giveaway, right?
Anyway, I think there is enough going on in the video for anyone to find at least one thing uncomfortable. No need for Bill to feel singled out, I think.
Posted by: paulmurray
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June 18, 2010 1:12 AM
Yes, ex-catholics are screwed up. Madonna. Tori Amos. Paul McDermott. But the fault for this, is seems to me, lies with the catholic church itself.
As for weird sexo/religio imagery ... had a close look at the sacred heart of jesus lately?