Pharyngula

Posted by: Shala | July 28, 2010 11:02 AM

I'm not bothering with a certain silly little game until a battle chest of it is released.

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 28, 2010 11:08 AM

@Shala,
What's a battle chest? I like to play video games but I am sadly ignorant of the market and such. I've always just played whatever people put in front of me, with one exception which I bought because the cover was pretty and it was inexpensive. (Xenosaga.) I'm also trying to figure out how consoles work, in terms of when they are released and things like that.

Posted by: JeffreyD | July 28, 2010 11:11 AM

Repost

Jules -

But I love his books. What does this say about me...

It says you are a person...part of the infinite variety of tastes, expectations, desires, and interests that is humanity.

From my view, it also says you like to read weird stuff, but that is fine too. (kidding and laughing)

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 28, 2010 11:14 AM

What's a battle chest?

It's not usually an issue for console games, because you get the game and sequels are sequels, not expansions.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 28, 2010 11:17 AM

I hope you played Xenogears? It was better (well, the first disc was...the second was kind of rushed because they appropriated most of the dev team to make sure FFVIII was released on time).

I feel that way about Xenosaga as a whole.

Also if they hadn't taken Shion's glasses off. Women with glasses aren't allowed to be strong often enough -.-;

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 28, 2010 11:22 AM

Oh! I get it. Thanks. And no, I didn't play Xenogears. I've only heard good things about it, though, and wish to play it at some point. Kind of have a list to get through, though, as there are several games I've started and left unfinished (on the consoles/computers of ex-boyfriends, one of whom will be cooperative in getting the savefiles back to me), there are some games I played and loved and sequels are out already (Bioshock), and I will put all life aside to play Portal 2 as soon as humanly possible.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 28, 2010 11:24 AM

Gravity's Rainbow is my numberone veryfavorite novel of all time--of ALL TIME--and I frankly pity those of you who gave up on it. The first 150 pages or so are a hard slog the first time, I'll grant, but after that I couldn't put it down (any of the 4 times I've read it). It's one of only two books ever that I finished and then started right back up again immediately (the other was Infinite Jest where you're supposed to do that).

Seriously, it's great stuff, some of the best-crafted writing ever IMO, full of delightful words I had to look up, deeper than I could get all of and funny as hell in spots (one of the comic set-pieces involves a large octopus on the beach, btw). If you bother to look up a few of the references you can learn a lot, too--there's a crutch for the lazy.

I also used to love Bukowski (for very different reasons, obv)(guess I still do but haven't read him in years). I remember liking Factotum despite some of the nauseatingly skeevy incidents therein...One of his poetry collections has one of the greatest titles ever: Play the piano drunk like a percussion instrument until the fingers begin to bleed a bit.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 28, 2010 11:33 AM

Am I the only one seeing this thread centered?

?
A left-justified center column, yes, but that's how it always looks. Firefox if that matters.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 28, 2010 11:37 AM

From Sili's pre-portcullis link, on Adam Bly, SEED MEdia Group CEO and ScienceBorg Czar:

I’m glad that this dirty laundry about his corrupt editorial policies has come to light, because it reminds me that there are legitimate reasons to loathe him and his presence in science journalism besides the rather mundane fact that he’s a pretentious, vindictive, thin-skinned twerp who stiffs his freelancers, couldn’t edit his way out of a paper bag, and sics lawyers on talented ex-employees out of spite when they escape his diseased little company.

tee-hee!

He also seems to have a bit of the ol' Kw*k in him...

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 28, 2010 11:38 AM

Oh, and to make my post make more sense, I should point out that I don't own an acceptable gaming PC or a console of my own yet. Saving up for both (a good gaming desktop and an Xbox), albeit very slowly. That's why I'm wondering about the console market. My friends who game more regularly said they're probably not putting out new ones for a few years.

Is the Wheel of Time that bad with regard to female characters? I'm disappointed but not surprised to hear it. My friends have highly recommended those books, but said friends aren't... great... with the whole gender thing.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 28, 2010 11:42 AM

Oh, and to make my post make more sense, I should point out that I don't own an acceptable gaming PC or a console of my own yet. Saving up for both (a good gaming desktop and an Xbox), albeit very slowly. That's why I'm wondering about the console market. My friends who game more regularly said they're probably not putting out new ones for a few years.

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 11:48 AM

Is the Wheel of Time that bad with regard to female characters? I'm disappointed but not surprised to hear it.

In truth, it really depends on what kinds of things set you off. Pretty sure every book passes the Bechdel Test with flying colors (if nothing else due to the political intrigue among the all-women magic users group). They have complex motivations, generally. But most of the main female characters are also controlling, vindictive, and constantly stating how men can't be trusted to do anything right. I know I was originally interpreting them as over-the-top feminist stereotypes, although there is some in-universe justification. And Jordan spent entirely too much time having them discuss their dresses and bathing as he got to his later books, which seems to have been excised gracefully.

Posted by: SteveM | July 28, 2010 11:48 AM

re 12:
Am I the only one seeing this thread centered?

No you are not. It seems to have started with PZ's, "Now we're all caught up on everything." after whatever he embedded up there (it's blocked here).

Posted by: Kevin Anthoney | July 28, 2010 11:50 AM

Am I the only one seeing this thread centered?

Somethings gone wrong with the embedding. There are two <object> tags but only one closing </object> tag.

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | July 28, 2010 11:55 AM

Is the Wheel of Time that bad with regard to female characters? I'm disappointed but not surprised to hear it. My friends have highly recommended those books, but said friends aren't... great... with the whole gender thing.

Gah. The Wheel of Time books are terrible about everything. Each character is assigned two traits, and you are reminded every other page what those two traits are. The pacing is terrible, with a little fairly-well described action, followed by 10 pages of hitting you over the head with a character's traits. The dialog wanders from fairly-well-done-for-the-genre into rank amateur territory. Nothing truly important happens for entire books. And they writing style is horrendous.

I enjoyed the first book. I really did. Then the second was OK. From the third or fourth on, though, it just sucked. I made it halfway through book five before I realized I wasn't even enjoying it any more.

The poor characterization of women is part-and-parcel of the lack of real characterization throughout the books. It isn't that they are objectified (though they are, to some extent). It's that Jordan doesn't know how real people behave, and so his female characters represent what he thinks are the two or three types of women. They don't behave as people do -- they behave as Jordan thinks women do.

Sorry about the rant. I wasted three weeks reading books three, four, and half of five. Those are hours of my life I'll never get back.

Posted by: reeddlh | July 28, 2010 12:07 PM

MATTIR from previous thread: See? Only weavers care about looms. So, even though you don't actually weave, YET, you're obviously already a weaver. My husband doesn't weave, but he's a weaver - fascinated by looms and all the other steampunk technology that goes with such an ancient craft.

Sven: I keep getting bogged down in Infinite Jest. I saw a little helper for that one, too. Is it any help, or good?

Posted by: Shala | July 28, 2010 12:13 PM

Also if they hadn't taken Shion's glasses off. Women with glasses aren't allowed to be strong often enough -.-;

She takes them off? I need to get to episode 2 sometime...

Shion was pretty amazing in the first game though, both character-wise and in battle. Her, Jr., and chaos would just demolish everything by the endgame.

also lol albedo

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 12:14 PM

I don't know when but at some point I basically lost the ability to enjoy fiction.

I don't know why or if it will be permanent.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | July 28, 2010 12:17 PM

a_r_i_d_s

However, for passionate hatred engendered by a book, nothing can beat anything written by Thomas Hardy. I found myself wishing passionately for all of the protagonists to freeze to death on an open moor.

Can't understand the people finding A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man "difficult" to read. What's difficult about it? You may not like it, but that's different.

If you want a book that is difficult to read, try The Unconsoled, by Kazuo Ishiguro. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a truly marvellous book, and wonderfully written, but, boy, is it annoying!
500+ pages about a pianist wandering around a generic Mitteleuropean city trying to get to the Concert Hall where he's due to perform.
It's written like one of those (non-surreal) dreams where something gets in the way, or distracts you, or detours you, every time you try to do anything. I'd read about four pages and start screaming something like "Fuck no! Don't go to the restaurant! You're supposed to be heading for the Concert Hall! Please!" and throw the book at the wall. Half an hour later I'd have calmed down and I'd pick it up again and read another four or so pages before going crazy again.
Took me about four months to finish, and I normally read a book nonstop once I start.
Never read a book that comes anywhere close in accurately recreating in the reader the feelings of frustration and confusion you get in dreams. Ishiguro has a really remarkable control of the English language, even more amazing as he only came to England st the age of five or six.

Strangely, I have been quite unable to get past twenty pages of any of his other books. Found them all boring.

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 12:22 PM

@30

As to that, I'd get the first book from the library and see how you like it, instead of just crossing it off the rainy day list. At least with respect to male/female interpersonal relationships, that book rather sets the general tone. There is some in-universe justification, but really it's like nigel said -- Jordan writes females as he thinks females act. Although his wife was his editor for at least some of the books. Perhaps it's a Southern thing.

For the record, I didn't really feel the books were a waste until parts of 7 and all of 8. 9-11 seemed to pick back up, and I'm enjoying 12 more than any of the others in the last decade.

Posted by: gotchaye | July 28, 2010 12:28 PM

I'm enjoying 12 more than any of the others in the last decade.

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 28, 2010 12:34 PM

@Shala,
I kinda like Albedo. But that's just my style.

It's written like one of those (non-surreal) dreams where something gets in the way, or distracts you, or detours you, every time you try to do anything. I'd read about four pages and start screaming something like "Fuck no! Don't go to the restaurant! You're supposed to be heading for the Concert Hall! Please!"

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | July 28, 2010 12:37 PM

I second "Grendel." Loved that book, without reservation.

As for books with depth, literary symbolism, and just general good read: I also recommend "The Book of the New Sun," which is a series (or single book, depending on how you buy it) by Gene Wolfe.

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 12:41 PM

Most people who reed the Wheel of Time do not understand the depth, by any means, of the recurrent themes, symbolism, and foreshadowing that are just totally jam-packed everywhere.

True. It was fun lurking and sometimes posting on r.a.s.f.w.r-j, and helping with the whole faq thing. But a lot of people don't have exposure to that level of insanity and nitpicking, and the newsgroup is long dead. Can't blame people for reading at face value and not getting excited about the mysteries , symbolism and allusions.

Jordan gets a lot of mileage out of women causing all sorts of problems because they're doing womanly things like refusing to contribute important information

Actually, this is unfair. He treats refusing to contribute important information as a universal human trait. It is by no means exclusive to his female characters.

But isn't this an accurate assessment? I mean... seeing as most of the problems in the Wheel of Time books stemming from men?

Depends on your perspective. The whole Hundred Companions thing wrecking things for the world was due to women refusing to help in the past. Problem stemming from men or women? History blamed the men, but there is an argument either way.

More than half the countries in Randland are ruled by men. So perhaps many international problems could be said to be caused by men. But every step of the way Aes Sedai are manipulating these men to take whatever course of action the Female Conspiracy wants them to take. If the world is in shambles, are the puppets or the puppetmasters responsible?

And let's not even get started on the Seanchan, with a women deciding to collar other magic users, or the Empress doing Empress things. Or Suroth, doing her best impression of a crazy person.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 12:42 PM

As for books that I found interesting to read as opposed to just finding the story interesting:
John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar fascinates me.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 12:48 PM

@Kevin
Are you published? Where would I look for your titles?

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 28, 2010 12:54 PM

@Rutee:

Well, one also has to realize that my world finds misogyny to be really silly. Men and women have equal roles and equal parts in their societies. The most powerful person in the entire world is a female (technically an eternally reincarnating spirit, but always is reborn into a female body.) The two major cities have councils running them (though one is a monarchy - he only really serves as a uniting voice on the council) and women are freely elected to serve on these councils.

There are a few people who see women as lesser figures and extend their force over them, but it's very rare, very strange, and most people would think those people are crazy. They are the exception to the rule.

My fantasy stories are supposed to be tales of personal growth and adventure, not really an allegory to the world we live in

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 12:57 PM

Argh! So the script I was thinking would be done by now is going to take longer due to an obnoxious little detail that's requiring some new solutions here. Which means I can't go off campus for lunch where I can squeeze in some study time over coffee and good food. Which means I'm eating my little lunch from the downstairs canteen.

I go down there and it's smoked meat day. Meh...

so I see a thing labeled Turkey Chili and ladle some into a little paper bowl. On ice in my peripheral vision I see something pink in little containers labeled fresh strawberry shortcake whipped cream.

Mmmmm...

I buy, check out, go to my desk. This is not fucking chili. It's like corn chowder with corn mean ground up in it and lots of bell pepper. We're in Texas. Don't tell people in Texas you're serving them chili and then serve them some weird corn chowder.

And the desert? Cool whip.

For the love of GAWD people, cool whip is not and will never be whipped cream.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 1:09 PM

So, a couple of women in Utah with access to the State's data on people legally receiving services such as food stamps or health care for their citizen children sent a list of the parent's names to several media outlets, calling for the arrest of the illegal immigrants.

Let's see, what is wrong with this approach. Let me count the ways.

The Salt Lake Tribune contacted some of the people on the list and discovered that some of them are legal U.S. residents.

No one on the list was receiving unlawful state benefits.

I don't think one should use one's job in state government to mine data banks for people that, according to Tea Party politics, should be arrested.

Probably also not a good idea to publicly disclose the addresses, phone numbers, and even social security numbers in some cases, of people who have not been arrested nor even accused of crimes.

But the anti-immigrant fever is running very high in Utah, with one Senator even backing the Arizona immigration bill by filing a brief in support.

To his credit, the Governor of Utah recognized the breach of privacy as wrong and he fired one of the women involved and began the process of terminating the other, full-time employee.

How do some Utahan's react to the Governor's redress? Here are some examples:

“Your gutless attack on people doing their duty to report the abuse, rather than at the very least, approaching this situation with caution shows your are not fit to be a representative of the State of Utah!” wrote Martin King, who called the employees “Patriot Whistle Blow

“I am from Utah … With a piece of sh-- like you as governor is it a good place to be from,” wrote Ken Auston in an e-mail last week. “You are a joke … and a useless one at that.”
     Others demanded that the governor be impeached.
     “[Y]ou should be tried for treason for not up holding our law of people in this country illegaly,” wrote Stephen Glenn Powers. “[Y]our one sorry governor and unAmerican,you should be empeached or step down-now depoart these law breaking illegals now.”
     Shane Doyle said he was outraged that Herbert was focusing on the source of the list instead of the “criminals” they identified.
     “Are you out of your mind? This is treason!” he wrote. “You call yourself an American? The people who made that list are Heros! they should be given a medal!”
     Several, like Stephanie Lynn Smith, said that if the people on the list are in the country illegally, “THEY HAVE NO CIVIL RIGHTS!”

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 28, 2010 1:10 PM

My fantasy stories are supposed to be tales of personal growth and adventure, not really an allegory to the world we live in

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 1:11 PM

For the love of GAWD people, cool whip is not and will never be whipped cream.

Cool Whip is to Whipped Cream

as

Miracle Whip is to real Mayonaise

Posted by: Shala | July 28, 2010 1:13 PM

I got SO ANGRY at Shion for insisting on bringing that guy his damn curry.

but she could shoot fire out of that curry that could blow up boxes

!!!!

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 28, 2010 1:16 PM

Ol'Greg:

For the love of GAWD people, cool whip is not and will never be whipped cream.

No, but it is Cool Whip. I haven't tasted the stuff for (literally) decades, but I recall eating it right out of the tub as a kid. Despite its being made of space-age polymers, I recall enjoying it quite a bit. It's especially good if you freeze it first.

The trick with stuff like this is to not think of it as fake whipped cream. My favorite example is Taco Bell: It bears no resemblance to either authentic or real 'Murican-style Mexican food, and cannot stand being judged by those standards... but if you compare it to its actual peers — other cheap fast food — it actually stands up pretty well.

When we were in Korea, the versions of American food were awful by comparison to the real versions of the dishes they were purporting to be, but they were often perfectly cromulent food if you simply stopped demanding that they actually be what they were pretending to be.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 28, 2010 1:20 PM

@reedhl #31 - I've been told that one is a weaver when strangers begin gifting you with non-working looms in need of repair. By that standard, I've been a weaver for a while. DaughterSpawn rehabbed one of them (a homemade loom from the 1930s) and I need to get about $300 of parts for the other one (a LeClerc Dorothy). But actual working looms? Never gotten one of those before.

I love textile work because the history of textiles is in large part the history of human technology, starting with spinning and basketry 40,000 years ago and progressing through the Industrial Revolution and beyond. I don't have an immediate cite for this, but I've heard that until a couple hundred years ago, 40% of the total hours of work in most societies was relate to textiles, surpassing food production and pottery combined. When I do the textile merit badge with Boy Scouts, I emphasize that this was not 40% of women's work, but 40% of everyone's work combined. Then I point out how much effort they (as teenage boys) do to evade work and ask them to imagine how much work people might have put into making such a huge time-suck more efficient.

Now if only I could figure out how to get those same boys not to list "seamstress" when asked to discuss three careers involving textiles. (I'm actually going to start announcing that this will not be an acceptable response - tailor, sure, but not "seamstress." And extra points for listing fields like design of medical devices, spacecraft, insulation, etc. Say "seamstress" and I'll poke you with my sharp pointy needles...)

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 28, 2010 1:22 PM

For Jadehawk and Caine, this news:

North Dakota still leads nation in parking availability.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | July 28, 2010 1:26 PM

North Dakota still leads nation in parking availability.

The new state motto;

North Dakota: The Parking Lot Of The United States.

Posted by: Buster | July 28, 2010 1:30 PM

Open thread? What does it mean?

Did you see this thread here about Hitchens and Mr Myers?

http://www.dailyhitchens.com/2010/07/christopher-hitchens-not-being-dick.html

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 28, 2010 1:38 PM

RevBDC (@61):

Oh, no, you di'int!!! ;^)

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | July 28, 2010 1:38 PM

Ah, Bluster still being a dick? Somehow he doesn't know how to do his homework. Makes him look like a fool.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 1:42 PM

I haven't tasted the stuff for (literally) decades, but I recall eating it right out of the tub as a kid.

Oh Bill D, do we have one aesthetic preference in common? lol

Cool whip has a really weird taste. I don't know how to describe it but it's sort of like the smell of pool toys, and the texture is to me similar to a light version of Crisco.

Posted by: Dania | July 28, 2010 1:44 PM

Posted by: Buster Author Profile Page | July 28, 2010 1:30 PM

Ooooh, a troll! A troll found the endless thread! How cute!

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 1:48 PM

I guess what I'm saying is that if I knew that my shortcake and strawberries had been ruined with Cool Whip I wouldn't have bought them at all!

As it was I scraped most of the frothy goop into the trashcan and ate the strawberries.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 1:50 PM

Haha! Bill, when I was a kid I actually liked that kind of cold salad that is made with fruit and green jello.

A part of me knows that is terrible food. But a part of me still goes "mmmmmm" when I think of it :P

Posted by: blf | July 28, 2010 1:55 PM

A truly fine novel, Beowulf seen from the opposite side: Grendel by John Gardnner

Oooohh! Now that sounds interesting…
Thanks for the tip.

Yonks ago, I read a fictionalised version of the Voyage of St Brendan “the Navigator” (told, if memory serves me right, from Brendan's PoV). Unfortunately, I cannot recall the title or author (and Wikipedia lists several, none of which seem familiar). Whilst it also sounded interesting, it was dull and dry and boring and I never finished it.

Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY | July 28, 2010 2:04 PM

OT (can anything be OT in an open thread?), I'm having a bit of unicorn-inspired fun over at Panda's Thumb. I made one little jokey comment about never finding any unicorn fossils, and the theists came out of the woodwork to deny that unicorns are mentioned in the bible. It depends on how you define "bible", but there's good things about bible history and cryptozoology. The comment count is over 150 now. There's Kwok-baiting! See the thread "Creationists in the Town Square". Be prepared for parsing and semantics.

Posted by: MrFire | July 28, 2010 2:07 PM

I might hate the stuff with the white-hot heat of a million suns

Nowhere near enough heat to begin breaking that garbage down, neither.

Posted by: Weed Monkey | July 28, 2010 2:09 PM

Nice t-shirt!

Regarding literature, I've been curious for a long time to read Alastalon salissa by Volter Kilpi, but I'm too intimidated by it to check it out of the library.

Posted by: onkundig | July 28, 2010 2:13 PM

Epinephrine @ 86

And have you read (admittedly much lighter than Martin or Gaiman) Jim Butcher's Dresden Files?

I love the books. Especially the way Harry reacts to danger. With his rapier wit.

"Sufficiently advanced technology, my ass."

Also with the last book, the series might have taken a turn to the dark side.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 2:17 PM

@ Rev BDC,
OK, you were comparing your likes, I can follow that. I thought you were saying that MW tries to emulate mayonnaise the same way that CW tries to emulate whipped cream.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 2:23 PM

There are very few foods I don't like, but I dislike most fake foods (e.g., Miracle Whip). The two foods I absolutely cannot stand are carrots* and ketchup**. I get angry about it. Way more angry than I get about the various Whips.

*I can handle carrots in Korean food sometimes.
**Is ketchup a real food or a fake food?

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 28, 2010 2:30 PM

Jules:

*I can handle carrots in Korean food sometimes.

E.g., kim bap?¹


¹ Not to the unitiated: Kim bap is a Korean dish that resembles a sushi roll (but doesn't contain any raw fish); it's not a mispronounced Hanson song. ;^)

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 2:31 PM

Ahh, I am getting sucked in. It can't possibly be Eternal Food Truth, I love Miracle Whip. Like I would make a sandwhich with just Miracle Whip on it and lick the knife I used for spreading so that none went to waste. I have always had it in my fridge and I can't imagine not having it in my fridge.

Miracle Whip was the only way I could stomach leftover meat, raw cabbage, or canned tuna. It changed my life from hating lunch to looking forward to midday. My friends frequently quip that I would eat anything if you just cubed it and mixed it with Miracle Whip.

I say that in full knowledge that you won't understand, and may even look down on me a little. I. DON'T. CARE.
I love Miracle Whip. It's not mayonnaise and the two shouldn't be compared.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 28, 2010 2:36 PM

Note, not not. <sigh>

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | July 28, 2010 2:41 PM

All this talk about ketchup,

Japanese Omelet Rice

4 cups steamed Japanese rice
1/2 lb. chicken breast
1 green peppers, chopped
4 white mushrooms, sliced
1/2 onion, chopped
salt and pepper to season
4 Tbsp. ketchup
vegetable oil for frying
8 eggs

Cook steamed rice. Cut chicken into small pieces. Chop green pepper and onion. Slice mushrooms thinly. Heat vegetable oil in a large skillet and saute chicken. Add onion, mushrooms, and green pepper in the skillet and saute together until softened. Add steamed rice in the pan and stir-fry together. Sprinkle some salt and pepper. Stop the heat and add ketchup and mix well. Set the seasoned rice aside. Heat 1 tsp of vegetable oil in a large skillet. Beat two eggs in a small bowl and pour the egg in the skillet. Quickly spread the egg and make a round omelet. Place 1/4 of the seasoned rice in the middle of the omelet and fold top and bottom sides of omelet over the rice. Cover the frying pan with a plate and turn them over to place the omerice in the plate. Repeat this process to make four omelet rice. Put some ketchup on top of omurice just before serving.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | July 28, 2010 2:46 PM

This seems to be an appropriate juncture to observe that de gustibus non est disputandum. All one can conclude is that one person's ambrosia is another's ickiness-on-a-plate. :-D

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 2:50 PM

Fair enough. They are both condiments. Any claim to foodhood is on par with defining kethup as a vegetable.

No, you're missing the point as well.

Both of the "whips", as I shall refer to them, are made to be cheap mass produced versions of food (condiments) that when made traditionally and / or with care are actually good products.

Using the tried and true methods of adding sugar to anything (miracle whip) to make it appeal to the masses, adding "filler" to lessen the cost and synthesizing a "real food" product like whipped cream to get Cool Whip (contains no dairy products only the milk derived phosphoprotein casein) to make it cheap they've created things that when compared to the originals pale in comparison. But damned if the masses don't go crazy for them.

But this is purely a taste thing, and while I'm not wrong you are sure welcome to tell me I am.

:P

I love Miracle Whip.

Hey good for you. Don't worry I won't be eating any of the stash

It's not mayonnaise and the two shouldn't be compared.

Well yeah! But that's what it is marketed as. An alternative to mayonnaise for people who like ranch dressing, cool whip, cools light and pizza hut. (my gross generalizations are provided no cost today).

/runs for the hills

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 2:56 PM

cools should be coors

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | July 28, 2010 2:58 PM

Dhorvath,

@Gyeong,
That sounds awesome. Can I skip the ketchup?

You could try. I like my katchup though. It makes the hashbrown easier to swollow.

You know, as a broke college student, soy sauce and rice are my friends. All you need to do is just pour the sauce on the cooked rice and *Ta-da* you've got barely nourishing food!

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 3:01 PM

By the by, I just got back from the Korean place for lunch (one mention of bi bim bap, and I was done for). They have this delicious squid stir fry (nothing like what people usually think of as stir fry--it's drenched in that yummy hot sauce). It was cooked to absolute perfection today. I ate way too much of it. *happy burp*

drooling

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 3:07 PM

@ Rev BDC
I don't think there is anything wrong with you not liking Miracle Whip. I just like it a lot and everywhere that I like it, I don't like mayonnaise. Everywhere that I like mayonnaise I wouldn't dream of using Miracle Whip (french fries?)

I object to the comparison, but I had never really given it much thought as in my mind they are so different. One is a sweet tangy sauce and the other is a savoury. On further reading it appears that my conceptions are just that, mine.

Kraft developed Miracle Whip as a low cost mayo replacement during the depression. I did not know that. It seems they missed by a horrendous margin and I can appreciate how anyone trying Miracle Whip as a direct replacement for mayonnaise would be appalled.

No matter how misguided Kraft was I am glad for their contribution to N.American pop food.

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | July 28, 2010 3:11 PM

An alternative to mayonnaise for people who like ranch dressing, cool whip, cools light and pizza hut.

And Duff, Duff Light, and new Duff Dry!

(Great Grotty Grue, but I hate mass-produced beer. "What do you have that's good on tap?" A: "Oh, we have them all! Miller, Miller Light, Budweiser, Bud Light, . . ."

(Shoot me. Shoot me now.)

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 28, 2010 3:19 PM

actually, I find that a Miller Lite or 12 goes down pretty good outside on a hot summer day.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 28, 2010 3:20 PM

Hey, I like ranch dressing and Pizza Hut. (I prefer French dressing---preferably 'red French'---and a local pizzeria, but...)

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 3:26 PM

actually, I find that a Miller Lite or 12 goes down pretty good outside on a hot summer day.

Yeah I'm not opposed to a few of the "macro" brews in that very situation. As a matter of fact I'm going to the in-laws for a cook out tonight and I can damn well guarantee that the F-I-L will be handing me a can of Miller when I walk in the door.

Miller High Life: I'm livin' it might as well drink it as he says

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 3:31 PM

I can appreciate that. I am pretty choosy about most things that I eat, MW just lets me consume the things that I ordinarily would have passed up and enjoy them. This is a boon as I can't always afford the choice foods that I would prefer, but I can always afford a jar of MW.

Don't get me started on whiskey. I can't even afford to talk about the whiskeys that I like.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 3:35 PM

Don't get me started on whiskey. I can't even afford to talk about the whiskeys that I like.

Going to Atlanta for work for the next 6 days and there is a liquor store there that gets all kinds of rare shit I can't find anywhere. I'll go in and drool for a while. End up buying something less than what I really want and move on.

Good thing is, when you set your hopes high, even the next few levels down are pretty damn good.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 3:36 PM

My favorite beers are the good IPAs (there's one called Titan that I thoroughly enjoy), but most of the time, I drink PBR or High Life, Yuengling on a splurge. See, I like expensive beer, but I can't always get expensive beer.

And my dirty little secret is that I don't just drink PBR for the cost efficiency and availability--I actually like it.

Posted by: rippingrich | July 28, 2010 3:40 PM

Make me realize we are not alone...

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 28, 2010 3:42 PM

good IPAs

Now we're talkin. My local 'hole has had Ithaca Flower Power on tap this summer and I can't get enough of the stuff. The first hit is almost like grapefruit juice.
In the fridge at home: Fire Island Red Wagon, also reeeeeal tasty.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | July 28, 2010 3:46 PM

Some of you don't seem to like eggs.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 3:49 PM

Oh man, now I have scotch dreams going on.
Ardbeg is my goto when I have a little money, but when I get this business turning a profit I am getting some of the Lagavulin that I have tried at a couple of bars.
Obviously, I'm one for the peaty (dare I say bacon?) flavour of the Islay scotches.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 28, 2010 3:51 PM

But it's nonsmoking

you mean there are still places that aren't?

huh.

Posted by: MrFire | July 28, 2010 3:53 PM

Heh. Have you seen his blog?

Cool

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 3:58 PM

Porters and stouts are pretty good from the micro breweries around here, but the cream of the Island is the Herminator, an ice bock that is only around from late Oct-Dec. I loves the stuff.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 28, 2010 3:58 PM

I read the first chapter of Portrait of the artist as a Young Man, hurled it into a wall, denting said wall, and then left it on the floor.

I had to write a paper on it shortly thereafter. Well, not a paper, a timed essay as practice for the IB Examinations that would come at the end of the year. Having never read it, I proceeded to get the second highest score in the classroom.

I took IB in high school too (/kwok). A friend of mine didn't finish any of the books in English class and somehow managed to a 91 on his report card.
_ _ _

BTW, did anyone here actually finish Ulysses? If so, I respect your perseverance. If you understood it, I suspect you're not enitrely human.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 4:03 PM

I did try one scotch that was an over the top peat experience called "Peat Monster." The aroma was divine, but the scotch was mediocre once in mouth so I can't truly recommend it. If bacon is your thing, see if you can sample some.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 4:05 PM

Heh. Have you seen his blog?

Speaking of, I'm a bad blog owner. I haven;t updated that in a long long while.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 4:08 PM

Depends...

I like Laphroaig and Lagavulin. But also love those Glenmorangie and Balvanie makes that are aged in sherry casks and things like that. Especially one Glenmorangie makes that I can't think of the name for... but it has a gold label :P

There was a cheaper blended scotch called Sheeps Dip once I tried that was surprisingly good and I think a bit of a bargain but I haven't seen it recently.

Yeah, selection can be hit or miss. Since I moved out of Dallas proper I miss the damned liquor stores.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 4:12 PM

Laphroaig is no longer carried in my neck of the woods, so I had forgotten about it. I did have a bottle of it once upon a time and it was tasty.

Posted by: Aquaria | July 28, 2010 4:13 PM

I eat Pizza Hut quite a bit, because they deliver. The local highbrow pizza joints in SA aren't that much better, anyway. Not for their price, and not for how all of them overcook their pies. None of them are as consistent as PH, either. they go through bigger and harder down cycles.

That being said, my favorite pizza (and Italian food) in SA is at Little Italy on West Avenue, just off Blanco. I don't count their pie as highbrow because they aren't pretentious about their ingredients. Not one "oak-roasted zucchini" on the menu. Thank goodness.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 4:17 PM

Ah, Glenmorangie and Balvanie. One blessed birthday, my friends took me out and got me good and snockered on nice scotch, and those two were part of that magical affair. I've managed to locate some Balvanie in my new town, and it's the only decent scotch I've had in a year.

I like tasty bargains. The name Sheeps Dip isn't particularly appetizing, but I can let that slide.

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | July 28, 2010 4:21 PM

Just cuz

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 4:38 PM

I love scotch. That's why I drink beer.

LOL!

That's why I drink Cognac.

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 4:47 PM

Sanderson has more writing ability and the 12 book really picks up the pace, though it lacks a lot of the mysterious intricacy of the earlier books.

That's fine, and this from someone who loved the intricacy. Jordan got to the point where he really didn't even have time to wrap up the subplots and mysteries he had left outstanding, so an author that can tie up those loose ends and put plot threads to rest for three books is imo much more important than someone who is going to continue piling mystery upon intrigue upon mystery. Heck, as I understand it Sanderson has indicated tht we'll find out who killed Asmodean, on which topic RJ never tired of jerking people around.

Posted by: Epinephrine | July 28, 2010 4:49 PM

I was introduced to him through The Drawing of the Dark, which is probably the best intro to his stuff, but kind of hard to find. It's about beer!

Ooh, I do love beer. And it happens that our library has a copy, so I will be reading it shortly :)

Thanks!

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 28, 2010 4:56 PM

On the subject of female characters and the Bechdel test: John Scalzi - Does Your Favorite Sci-fi Movie Do Right by Its Female Characters?

Posted by: DesertHedgehog | July 28, 2010 5:01 PM

Dalmore does a "cigar blend" single-malt for combining pleasures--- very nice. Though there's a single-malt Suntory that's also very good.

Posted by: Weed Monkey | July 28, 2010 5:05 PM

droolYou're talking Islay single malts :p~~~
Me likey. I'd pour myself a glass of Laphroaig right now if I had any.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 28, 2010 5:07 PM

So I've made 7 half-pint jars of blueberry jam, and then SonSpawn decided that if he made some jams and such and entered them in the fair, not only would he be able to compete with the Mom of Awesomesauce™, he'd also get a prize check that he could spend on additional Warhammer stuff. His jam is in the canner, and he did all the work, even blocking me from turning down the stove for him while he was measuring something.

I'm really proud that he's turning into a Beta Male (remember that stupid thread?).

Posted by: Ariel from Canada | July 28, 2010 5:12 PM

@ Paul,

Yes I agree, at this point a moving plot is much more appealing then a sprawl of Jordan style subnarratives.

I think he's done a great job in taking over, though I agree with you ( I think it was you who mentioned this) that the theme of accepting your station means it is your own fault is a little weird. It's very strongly mirrored between Aviendha and the wise ones and Elaida demoting the Aes Sedai.

I was also really curious how Sanderson would treat the less than traditional romantic relationships (many characters are bisexual or have multiple partners). He wrote a very weird blog when it came out that Dumbledore from Harry Potter was gay, and basically commended him as a gay man who never, as far as we know, acts on his homosexuality.

From what I remember of The Gathering Storm he doesn't touch on the bisexuality at all, which I guess is not really a big part of the story seeing as Moiraine is out of the picture right now. And for those people talking about Jordans sexism, does it annoy you that he writes female characters as gay, basically until they meet the right man and then they're straight?

Posted by: Dania | July 28, 2010 5:22 PM

Caine, I just posted a few bird photos to the moblog. :)

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 5:32 PM

From Anne Rice's Facebook page:

“For those who care, and I understand if you don’t: Today I quit being a Christian. I’m out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being “Christian” or to being part of Christianity. It’s simply impossible for me to “belong” to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I’ve tried. I’ve failed. I’m an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.
........In the name of Christ I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of Christ I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen.”

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 5:37 PM

I think he's done a great job in taking over, though I agree with you ( I think it was you who mentioned this) that the theme of accepting your station means it is your own fault is a little weird. It's very strongly mirrored between Aviendha and the wise ones and Elaida demoting the Aes Sedai.

Yeah, that was me. And eww, I just recalled someone else in this thread mentioning that Sanderson is Mormon. Squick.

And for those people talking about Jordans sexism, does it annoy you that he writes female characters as gay, basically until they meet the right man and then they're straight?

Difficult to call, for me. Keep in mind that most of the female characters in the story meeting your description live in highly stratified societies where they might not have significant male contact, and thus find comfort with their "pillow friends". For all intents and purposes, the White Tower is a nunnery without the raping priests. I don't find it all that sexist or odd to posit some of them turning to other females for certain forms of comfort. The behavior you note is mostly in these stratified societies. It is not present in, say, the Emond's Fielders or other Westlanders in general. It's mostly among the Aes Sedai and the Sea Folk (perhaps the Aiel? I do not recall it as much there).

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 5:42 PM

Yeah, I get a bit like that about Pizza Hut... I know it's not, objectively, good pizza, but somehow I really like it. :-/

I've always found theirs too greasy. Domino's actually tastes quite close to what I get when I make homemade pizza from scratch, and I hold that Rev is just being a food snob (although I doubt he'd argue that point).

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | July 28, 2010 5:47 PM

Yeah, that was me. And eww, I just recalled someone else in this thread mentioning that Sanderson is Mormon. Squick.

It's weird how Mormons seem to be well-represented in the sci-fi and fantasy sector... Orson Scott Card, Glen A. Larson, and so on.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 5:50 PM

I hold that Rev is just being a food snob (although I doubt he'd argue that point).

You'd be right and no I wouldn't.

Though in all honesty I really don't like mass chain pizza. I have a thing for local restaurants that source their ingredients locally, including pizza joints.

Plus I'd rather give my money to them instead of places like Dominos whose founder is a raving Catholic nutbag (even if he sold Dominos over a decade ago) or to any large corporation for that matter.

Posted by: Paul | July 28, 2010 6:00 PM

It's weird how Mormons seem to be well-represented in the sci-fi and fantasy sector... Orson Scott Card, Glen A. Larson, and so on.

Weird? With all that "God lives in outer space near Kolob" stuff, it makes a bit of sense. Or at least it's not all that surprising.

I have a thing for local restaurants that source their ingredients locally, including pizza joints.

None around here, more's the pity. Even the Pizza Hut in town went out of business.

Plus I'd rather give my money to them instead of places like Dominos whose founder is a raving Catholic nutbag (even if he sold Dominos over a decade ago) or to any large corporation for that matter.

Agree. But the wife likes a hassle-free delivered meal occasionally, so Dominoes is still an option. Especially on raid nights <.<

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 28, 2010 6:04 PM

It's weird how Mormons seem to be well-represented in the sci-fi and fantasy sector... Orson Scott Card, Glen A. Larson, and so on.

A lot of Mormonism sounds like one of those future religions that appear in science fiction.

Posted by: Travis | July 28, 2010 6:06 PM

Now I am hungry. I want some very good pizza. Sadly there is nothing nearby.

I should be more of a food snob but I am not. I am not really sure what to call what I am in this regard.

I love good food, I read a fair bit about food and enjoy well prepared meals, interesting foods, and things that actually have flavours and do dislike big chain restaurants (though put up with them and will eat there if others are going). There are certain things I know a lot about as well. I love beer and whisky and drinking and tasting very good varieties of each. So when I have a choice in the matter I am often rather snobby. But if I am at someone's place and they bring me a Canadian or Bud or something I would never, ever buy, I drink it without complaint. Though I have been known to get others to try my beer choices to broaden their experiences with the hope they might consider thinking more about what they drink.

So I dunno, maybe I am a snob at heart who is okay with slumming it on occasion.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 6:12 PM

Nerd:

Sounds like the Redhead. Except she isn't guilty about it. Time to update the DVR to catch that too.

Oh, if I tell the truth, I'm not guilty either. The Mister likes it too. Last season was pretty good, a lot of talent.

E-Cig update: This was not a waste of money. Haven't had a cigarette in almost 4 hours. Miracle time. (I'm even having a drink, which is usually impossible without a cig.)

Posted by: Ariel from Canada | July 28, 2010 6:19 PM

I missed the whole e-cig discussion, and have just looked them up on the internet.

Out of curiosity, is this a quitting mechanism, as in you use it to wean yourself off cigarettes?

Or do people smoke it in replacement of real cigarettes with no intention of quitting?

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 28, 2010 6:23 PM

Ariel:

A little of both.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 6:31 PM

Ariel:

Out of curiosity, is this a quitting mechanism, as in you use it to wean yourself off cigarettes?

Or do people smoke it in replacement of real cigarettes with no intention of quitting?

They are not sold, marketed or classed as medical or a quitting aid. You can certainly use one to help you quit.

Honestly, I wasn't looking to quit; I enjoy smoking. However, an E-cig gives me the same enjoyment, sensation and nicotine hit, just without the smoke, smell, chemicals and tar you get with actual cigarettes. It's also considerably cheaper than cigarettes.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 28, 2010 6:41 PM

So is it a bad sign that I had a dream the other day where I was trapped in one of that teen comedy movies, and a character named Walton was one of the characters? It was, just for the record, quite a tame teen comedy movies, with nary a Spanking Couch in sight.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 6:48 PM

Steven Erickson is my fave too, I have bought every book in the MBotF as soon as they hit the stand. Tehol, Bugg, Telorast and Curdle make me laugh, Annomander Rake and Icarium give me shivers, Itkovian made me cry, etc. I rarely have such strong physical reactions to fantasy so I figure Erickson is doing something right.
I also love the absurd, fatalist attitudes of many of the characters.

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/BbrPJedr3NS8KebSHhg8eX10SyxQ#8ddb4 | July 28, 2010 6:57 PM

Hey- was that video about a video game, or what Scientologists believe?

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 7:03 PM

Here's a website that discusses Latter-day Saints and Science Fiction:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/sf_lds2.html

Here's their bit on Dean Koontz:

Dean Koontz, Dark Rivers of the Heart, 2005
     M.S.: The villain, a corrupt Deputy Attorney-General plotting to subvert the Constitution, is furious when he learns that the hero has gone to ground in Utah, because he knows that those "Mormon straight arrows" will never fall in with his schemes. Many references. Example from pg. 394-5:
     Mormons, Mormons were everywhere... and all of them too efficient and by-the-book either to flub their investigation or to let this whole mess be covered over with a wink and a slap on the back.... asking their oh-so-polite questions... and Roy could never be sure that they were buying any part of his cover story or that they were convinced by his impeccable credentials...
He was certain that not all the cops were Mormons... But the non-Mormons were indistinguishable from the Mormons because they'd adopted Mormon ways, manners and mannerisms... One of the officers was a black man named Hargrave, and Roy was positive that he'd found at least one cop to whom the teachings of Brigham Young meant no more than those of... the Hindu Mother-Goddess, but Hargrave proved to be perhaps the most Mormon of all Mormons who had ever walked the Mormon way. Hargrave had a wallet full of pictures of his wife and nine children, including two sons who were currently on religious missions in squalid corners of Brazil and Tonga
     Eventually the situation spooked Roy as much as it frustrated him. He felt as if he were in The Invasion Of The Body-Snatchers

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 7:10 PM

Another characteristic to note about Dean Koontz is his combination of conservatism and extreme patriotism -- a trait one also finds in other mormon authors.

Authors who are not mormon, but who just skim the surface of the culture in the morridor are apt to highlight the clichéd characteristics they've already been told are common in mormons: hard workers, ethical, can't be corrupted, etc. Little do they know...

Here's an example of a Hindu writer painting a positive picture of Salt Lake City:

J. M. DeMatteis, Spider-Man: The Lost Years (Marvel Comics. 3-issue limited series. Later printed a combined volume.) 1993
     One of the warmest, most interesting portrayals of Salt Lake City and a Latter-day Saint character ever written by a non-Latter-day Saint science fiction writer was actually in a trio of Spider-Man comic books. Author J. M. DeMatteis, one of comicdom's most critically acclaimed writers, happens to be Hindu. But he apparently spent enough time in SLC to capture the flavor of the city well, and to create Latter-day Saint police detective Jacob Raven. Raven is a devout but delightfully complex character who eventually ends up arresting Peter Parker for a murder (committed by his clone) in the regular Spider-Man series. This "Lost Years" limited series reveals the back story of when Raven's and Spider-Man's paths first crossed in SLC. ...

Posted by: Ariel from Canada | July 28, 2010 7:11 PM

Thanks for the reading recommendations. Erikson and Jim Butcher are on the list.

Has anyone read Jacqueline Carey? Her first trilogy is great.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 28, 2010 7:25 PM

@OurDeadSelves:

I like Dead Koontz!

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 28, 2010 7:30 PM

Kevin:

I like Dead Koontz!

Typo? On purpose?

hee hee.

To each their own, Kevin.

By the way, how's StarCraft treating you?

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 7:38 PM

ODS
Have you ever had the Jell-O dessert that has the pretzel crust? It's crushed pretzels, some kind of cream cheese stuff, and strawberry Jell-O with strawberries. Sounds weird, tastes delicious, actually looks fairly pretty.

I love Jell-O.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | July 28, 2010 7:44 PM

The 15 Gayest Pictures Of The Pope.

having little atheist orgies of celebration as they laugh and take the Pope’s name and image in vain. I hope they know the penance for their sins may just be burning in hell for all time.

God still grants us great leaders among men: our priests, pastors and preachers are ordained by God to oversee his flock and make sure none are lead astray by the veil wolves of Satan.

Mattir -

I had a dream the other day where I was trapped in one of that teen comedy movies, and a character named Walton was one of the characters

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 28, 2010 7:50 PM

Lynna, just had dinner with a friend of the wife's from Driggs.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 7:54 PM

Cannabinaceae
I'm the one who mentioned Titan. My only complaint about it is that it has such a high alcohol content. I've become a lightweight, and two of those knocks me flat on my ass. Sadly, I cannot stop at only one. Too delicious.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 7:56 PM

Driggs has been a busy place this summer. For one thing, the owners of Huntsman Springs, a new, big resort, invited Glenn Beck for a talk and celebration. The Huntsmans are big time in the mormon world, loads o' cash, private planes, links to mormon royalty etc. I heard that more than 600 people showed up for Beck's visit, and that's a lot in the small town of Driggs.

The bookstore in Driggs, Dark Horse Books, carries my Backcountry Roads-Idaho book.

I wish I had time to visit there more often. Love the scenery, of course, and there are lots of good restaurants. Lots of non-mormons too.

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 28, 2010 7:59 PM

Oh, and for book recommendations, I'll bet everybody's already read Cryptonomicon¹, which I recommend to all my friends and relatives frequently. I'm surprised they still listen to me. If they'd just read the damn book! The various New Crobuzon² books are excellent if you can stomach overt fantasy. I hope UnLunDun and The City and The City, by the same author (but not set in New Crobuzon), come out in mass market paperback soon enough. And if you haven't read it, or couldn't get into it the first time (like me), Sometimes a Great Notion³ is well worth checking out. I much prefer it to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest³. For pure mind candy, I like the Emberverse series⁴.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 8:02 PM

...having little atheist orgies of celebration as they laugh and take the Pope’s name and image in vain. I hope they know the penance for their sins may just be burning in hell for all time.

If I can figure out how to take the Pope's name and image in vain, I'll include that particular atheist ritual next time I get together with the boyfriend. (Probably doesn't count as an orgy, though, since there are only two of us, and heterosexual at that. Sigh. I am just so not measuring up to expectations.)

Where's Smoggy Batzrubble when we need him? I'll bet he knows how to take the Pope's name and image in vain.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 8:09 PM

Jell-O Pretzel Thingie
1 stick melted butter
1 1/2 c. crushed pretzels
1 (8 oz.) pkg. cream cheese
1 lg. container Cool Whip
1 c. sugar
1 (6 oz.) pkg. strawberry Jello
1 lg. pkg. frozen strawberries
Mix melted butter, pretzels, and 1/2 cup sugar together and press into 9 x 13 inch pan. Bake 6 minutes at 350 degrees. Dissolve Jello in 2 cups boiling water and add frozen strawberries. Let gel. Combine cream cheese, Cool Whip, and 1/2 cup sugar; put on top of crumbs. When Jello is starting to set, pour over cheese layer and refrigerate until firm.

I personally forgo the Cool Whip. As I've already beaten into the ground, I don't like it, but more particularly in this case, I like the middle layer to be a bit more stout. Some like it fluffier. This is definitely a 50s housewife dessert. It would be a great addition to a Mad Men party.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 8:13 PM

I fucking hate that Jello-Pretzel dish. Just sayin'.

(This expression of extreme distaste cannot be trusted as a guide to how the dish tastes, as my heightened state of hate has been influenced by having jello dishes forced on me in biblical mormon proportions.)

Posted by: MrFire | July 28, 2010 8:15 PM

Crap.

$2600 for an ambulance ride.

Some of you know that my wife just had a baby. Well, we just received the above bill for the service of shipping her from one hospital to another (an emergency). According to the bill, our insurance company has already paid its share.

Is this a fucking joke?

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 8:21 PM

MrFire, ouch, ouch. That's one spendy ride.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 8:25 PM

Sorry to hear about the medical expenses, MrFire. No joke, unfortunately.

I had an out-patient procedure done on my shoulder a couple of years ago. After the surgery, the hospital was charging me $245 dollars per hour to lie around in a recovery bed. And this cost was after they had oh-so-generously given me a 30% discount (or so they said). If I'd known the cost, I would have gotten up and walked out of there even sooner than I did. As it was, I asked to be allowed to walk around almost immediately. I wanted to recover from the anesthesia, and I wanted to make sure I could take care of myself as I had no one at home to babysit me. They didn't stop charging me for the bed even though I wasn't in it.

Insurance is in the business of taking your money and paying out as little as possible. That's the business model. It doesn't really fit with healthcare.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 8:32 PM

I'll give John Barth another thumb's up.

I also like Harold Brodkey's "The Runaway Soul".

For those who can really get into a literary novel, I recommend Penelope Fitzgerald's "The Blue Flower" -- which is set in eighteenth century Germany.

Posted by: Philip Legge | July 28, 2010 8:39 PM

Hello all!

I haven’t been able to look at the internet for most of the previous fortnight, so has anything interesting* been happening?

* Feel free to imagine the sound of someone going browsing through the July archive, and then falling off his chair... PZ went on strike?!

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | July 28, 2010 8:41 PM

1)Home-made pizza wins all. When our tomatoes are ready, there will be home-made pizza.

2)Came back from a day at the garden with three bags worth of goodies: potatoes, yellow carrots, a purple carrot, some late radishes, some green onions, some kale, some late spinach, fucktons of peas, and a bit of dill. Gardens rule.

3)There will be polish pickle soup for dinner tonight, just because we had it at the dig, and I've been having cravings for it since.

Posted by: sphex | July 28, 2010 8:42 PM

@Lynna- That was great to read. I was so disappointed when she stopped writing the good vampire stuff!

re: food snobbism, scotch and beer...

I too am considered a bit of a 'food snob'- but I define it as eating (as much as possible) locally grown, organic, non-processed *real* food, made by me. Luckily I'm a pretty decent cook (so they say).

I also make my own pizza, because I grew up in Italy and most of the stuff sold in this country isn't worthy of the name. (Here in San Diego, I haven't found anything decent, but am open to suggestions!)

Having said that, I LOVE me some KFC extra crispy with slaw, about once a year, and oh boy is that a guilty pleasure. It's the only fast food place I ever frequent, and I don't seem to be able to entirely quit it. *blushes*

Laphroaig! A word, and a beverage, that instantly makes me warm and fuzzy and happy. And I agree that Sheep's Dip isn't at all bad (especially given the price)- and I kind of enjoy the reverse-snobbism of drinking something with such an unpalatable name. :)

Also, mint juleps. With mint infused simple syrup. Yum.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 8:47 PM

Maledict:

PZ went on strike?!

Yeah, bit of a glitch in the works, so to speak.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 8:53 PM

MrFire, I agree with Mattir. Appeal the ambulance cost. Another common trick pulled by insurance companies is to routinely refuse to pay for services, or to pay less than the full amount. They expect that most of the insured will not appeal, and that's what they count on. Even thought the paperwork will be onerous, appeal.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 8:57 PM

Hmmm... I've never dreamed of you guys. But then I very rarely remember dreams, and what dreams I do have are usually horrible so I don't like to remember them (these things are probably related).

Posted by: broboxley OT | July 28, 2010 9:09 PM

Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero. #149 have read Ulysses twice enjoyed it more the second time as I was rather young when I read it the first time.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 9:19 PM

Oh, good, a "green" vibrator that doesn't use any batteries. Now if I just find one with Pope's hat.

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 9:21 PM

@Cannabinaceae and anyone else that does it.

<rant>
Stop fucking underlining text when they aren't links.

Usability people. When it comes to html, underlines are for links.
</rant>

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 28, 2010 9:26 PM

Here's the link for the "green", environmentally sensitive, vibrators.

Posted by: John Morales | July 28, 2010 9:29 PM

gdh, are you using a monochrome monitor?

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 9:32 PM

Lynna
Not exactly related to your "veneration" of the Pope, but this is a nice resource for those good xians who just want to know if water sports are approved by Jesus.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 28, 2010 9:40 PM

Book titles should be italicized anyway. Underlining is a hackaround for handwritten/typewritten documents.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 9:44 PM

Benjamin:

Book titles should be italicized anyway.

I agree with you, however, underlining titles is also legit.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 9:54 PM

My only issue with underlining is that it's ugly

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 9:58 PM

@John Morales

gdh, are you using a monochrome monitor?

What if I am?

Default browser behaviour for websites is that links are underlined. This isn't invalidated by the fact that this can be overridden by CSS.

From Guidelines for Visualizing Links

Don't underline any text that's not a link, even if your links aren't underlined. Reserve underlining for links. Because underlines provide a strong perceived affordance of clickability, users will be confused and disappointed if underlined text doesn't have an actual affordance to match this perception.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 10:01 PM

I have grown to hate underlined text as I have progressed through my current copy editing project. This author does it absolutely randomly. For example, "T cells are..." Why can't she just say T cells or leave the underline off completely (my preference)? What is the point of underlining a single letter when it's part of a compound phrase? It's gross.

/OT style rant

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 10:05 PM

gdh, I think you're just going to have to deal. I don't assume underlined text is a link. In Firefox I have the option to click 'underline links' or not. People do things differently.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 28, 2010 10:14 PM

Okay, 7 hours, no cigarette. That's beyond excellent for me. I'm going to wander off and read now, started The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins. Catch you all tomorrow, hopefully, I'll be continuing the smoke-free days.

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 10:16 PM

As an aside, I have the same feelings for those that use b and i instead of strong and em.

Posted by: John Morales | July 28, 2010 10:20 PM

gdh @279, your prescriptivism is noted.
Good luck with that.

I, in turn, will note that, in most browsers, hyperlinks are not underlined until the mouseover GUI call is triggered.

(Also, as Caine points out, these settings are customisable in most browsers.)

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 10:21 PM

Wow.. strong and em? Do you use a screen reader or something?

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 28, 2010 10:22 PM

Ol'Greg:

Not necessarily, but quite a few people do.

And reserving underlines for links isn't pedantry so much as it is netiquette.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 10:24 PM

Caine
Congratulations on the e-cig success for the day. Also, I enjoyed that book a lot. It came in handy when I got into discussions with my fundie bro.

gdh
Pedantry is unbecoming. And I'm saying this as a professional pedant (copy editor). Personal quirks are understandable, though ;)

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 10:28 PM

Not necessarily, but quite a few people do. And reserving underlines for links isn't pedantry so much as it is netiquette.

I'm... confused. Did I ask you a question?

Um... I think the underlining for book titles predates the net!

lol

Probably something that will die away, but let's not pretend it never was!

Posted by: dickens | July 28, 2010 10:29 PM

@ Ol'Greg

There's gold in Dornoch Firth, home of Glenmorangie. You might have tried their Nectar D'or, but Cellar 13 is superb. I only saw/drank/bought/drank/bought more at the distillery.
Just down the road is Balbair, try the '79.

The view at Dornoch is not bad either, especially on a scotch bliss.

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 10:36 PM

Well that previous comment was a bit repetitive

Department of Redundant Redundancies?

Posted by: John Morales | July 28, 2010 10:38 PM

gdh, FireFox.

But yeah, I was wrong.
It's not the common default.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 10:40 PM

Well, I'm in Chrome right now and links are blue but not underline text until I mouseover?

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 28, 2010 10:43 PM

There's gold in Dornoch Firth, home of Glenmorangie. You might have tried their Nectar D'or, but Cellar 13 is superb. I only saw/drank/bought/drank/bought more at the distillery. Just down the road is Balbair, try the '79. The view at Dornoch is not bad either, especially on a scotch bliss.

Oooh...

Man, people are building up some serious UK lust in me.

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 10:49 PM

@Caine

FFS, tough shit. At this point, I don't care about your feelings.

So?

I use Firefox and I have a nifty Text Formatting Toolbar, which I will continue to use.

So?

This is not worth constantly whinging about nor is it worth a starfart. It is worth a nice cup of shut the fuck up.

So I have some personal opinions you don't agree with. So what? I bet there's probably a lot more we disagree on. Part of being human. It'd be boring if we're all the same.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 28, 2010 11:00 PM

gdh
I don't want to speak for Caine (so maybe I'm just projecting), but I think her point might be that your differences in this case are, in fact, boring.

Diversity is not always exciting. It can be tedious.

And with that, I've got to take off my editing/formatting/avoiding-doing-so-by-Pharyngulaing hat for the night. The discussion is now too similar to work to be an appropriate distraction, and I'm sleepy.

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 11:11 PM

@Jules

but I think her point might be that your differences in this case are, in fact, boring

To her certainly and maybe to you as well depending on how I read your comment. It's why I put rant tags round my comment. If people want to respond that's fine. If they don't that's also fine. I just stated my position(s)*.

* Like the rest of the internet, take with a huge grain of salt.

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death | July 28, 2010 11:25 PM

@Bill Dauphin

we'll be using some Phil Dick/Tom Cruise wave-your-hands-in-the-air interface instead of any sort of typing

Bugger that. I'm holding out for some form of brain entry device.

As it is, I have enough problems with being an advanced seagull typist. Type what I want not what I press.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 28, 2010 11:38 PM

Ah, well, it was almost guaranteed that I would fuck up the HTML @314 (apparently I put an <i> where I meant to put an <s>); I trust y'all (those of y'all who actually give a rat's ass, that is) get the point anyway.

cicely (@312):

My theory is some providers routinely bill for amounts they know they're not legitimately owed, because some fraction of the people who get those bills will simply pay them without question.

I'm sure of it. It used to be, back in the murky depths of time when we had insurance, that without fail, the hospital would bill us, and without fail, it would be a "clerical error".

Yah, this was our experience, except that it was a clinical practice, rather than a hospital, that kept billing us for money we didn't owe. And...

Insurance companies. *spits*

...in our case, the insurance company was on the side of Truth, Justice, and the American Way™, actually going the extra mile to defend us against a rapacious clinic.

MrFire (@306):

But of course that doesn't mean a thing if they decide it's 'something not covered by our plan'.

Even if it's true that some portion of the bill is "not covered," they may still have no right to seek payment from you. The key is what kind of policy you have, and what (if any) negotiated agreement the insurance company has with providers. The insurance company may turn out to be your ally in this: They're not going to get any of the money you pay the ambulance provider, and they have no vested interest in allowing their participating providers to screw over their customers.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 28, 2010 11:46 PM

Oh, but maybe if it could record my dreams. . .

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | July 28, 2010 11:50 PM

Bill Dauphin,

I was at the tail-end of the typing era (I'm 29!). In high school I learned typing (on electric typewriters; mechanical ones are terrible!), but my brother learned keyboarding three years later. I broke myself of the return at the end of every line habit, but I always hit two spaces after a period or colon, and I tend to tab new paragraphs too. The behavior is just too ingrained. Whatever. It works and no one ever complains, so I do it.

@various people discussing the Wheel of Time: Sanderson is proving to be quite good at tying up the loose ends and getting the story to the end. I really enjoyed his writing of the female characters. OTOH I think he missed Mat's voice by a mile, and Mat is my favorite character. :(

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | July 28, 2010 11:58 PM

Most of sexual ethics consists of "don't use your parts to hurt other people."

Not when you have Vagina Dentata!

Seriously, though, that's the best one line explanation I've ever seen, and everyone gets to decide for themselves what hurts them.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 29, 2010 12:07 AM

Sometimes a Great Notion is well worth checking out.

Hell yeah. Probably my #2 or 3 all-time.

Jules, will you marry me?

Posted by: John Morales | July 29, 2010 12:38 AM

Josh, OSG, I reckon whatever alveoli remain to you (metaphorically) thank you.

There is *something* I miss about tobacco, but I can't put my finger on it.

Tar?

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 29, 2010 1:01 AM

Josh:

I'm delighted your e-cig is working out, Caine! They are a miracle invention. I did have one Marlboro today, but that's it. There is *something* I miss about tobacco, but I can't put my finger on it.

Thanks, Josh! I've already figured out what I'm missing, that's detailed in the email group. Basically, it's simply having a cig burning in an ashtray. I am not missing the smoke/smell at all, and more than anything else, that's kept me from lighting up. I have no cravings to deal with and I really thought I'd be one of those people having trouble on that front. Well, it's only been one day, there might be rough times up ahead. We shall see.

Right now, I'm more than a little annoyed I can't get all the supplies I'm looking for at one site. Well, once it's all done, then we'll be good.

Posted by: Birger Johansson | July 29, 2010 4:14 AM

Good morning!!!
"New von Trier film starts shooting in Trollhättan, Sweden"
http://www.thelocal.se/28052/20100728/
It will be released next year. Plot: The end of the world (von Trier would never be caught making an up-beat film).

Posted by: windy | July 29, 2010 4:26 AM

I've been reading an interesting book, but I think the author might be one of these rude, uncivilized New Atheists who are only interested in mocking religion, because the characters say things like:

"...if belief in God were so necessary and were of eternal importance to us, would God himself not infuse in everyone enlightenment as bright as the Sun, which hides from no one? Do we pretend that God wants to play hide-and-seek with us, like children calling ‘Peekaboo, I see you!’? Does God put on a mask and then take it off? Does He disguise himself to some and reveal himself to others? That would be a God who is either silly or malicious."
or:
"to say that God has loved man more than cabbages is a joke we tell ourselves."

What an unsophisticated view of religion! It's safe to say the author has never read Nietzsche, Sartre or Camus. Does anyone know the identity of this New Atheist without googling? ;)

Posted by: Rorschach | July 29, 2010 4:49 AM

@various people discussing the Wheel of Time

I gave up at number 7 or 8, didnt enjoy his buying time to shell out yet another book anymore, and then he actually died before finishing the whole thing !! I read Eric van Lustbader's writeups of Ludlum scripts, most of them are actually good, but I won't pay for any Wheel of Time books now.Dan Simmons and Celia Friedman work for me atm.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 29, 2010 4:58 AM

I give up. Is Christwire satire or the real thing? I can't tell.

windy,

Without looking, I'd say Sartre, Nietzsche or Camus. ;)

Posted by: Rorschach | July 29, 2010 5:03 AM

No, Hitchens has probably read Nietzsche, Sartre and Camus. :)

Erm, yeah, occurred to me after posting lol....He probably got wasted with them back then !

Posted by: Rorschach | July 29, 2010 5:08 AM

And no, smartypants, Hitchens did not go drinking with Nietzsche...:-)

*sigh*

Posted by: Birger Johansson | July 29, 2010 7:09 AM

Links found elsewhere on Scienceblogs:

"God's Problem: why do we suffer" http://pw201.livejournal.com/102229.html
"The Culture: a secular heaven (relevant for the link above)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture

Posted by: Rorschach | July 29, 2010 7:55 AM

My first guess was going to be Voltaire, but I don't think that sounds like him.

At least we can be fairly sure he didn't read Sartre !( Unless you are a Doctor Who fan)

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 8:24 AM

Lynna and Mattir
When I first stumbled across that site, it was hours of hysterical laughing. It's a resource attached to a xian sex toy retailer. Their mantra is that it should only be husband, wife, and Jesus in the bedroom, so they remove any packaging that has another person on it. You can get all the anal beads you want--just don't look at another person "with lust in your heart." It is a real shame they can't get past fear of Teh Gey.

Also, for the record, though I was raised by evangelical fundamentalists, my parents had a very similar approach to sex as that site. Yes. I had the privilege of not only having parents who really liked sex, but who were quite open about it. Still not sure if I'm traumatized, but sex was definitely destigmatized in my house (again, to the degree that my link does that). Overall, I tend to think I got lucky, considering what I've seen from other fundagelical kids.

Sven
Sure. Do you do dishes?

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 9:04 AM

Yo, Cannabinaceae... chill out dude. It's only one person yelping about underlining. Nothing to get all up tight about. I mean get up tight if that's what you like doing, but really man it's all cool. I think it's kind of tacky looking but that's not really a whine or complaint, just an explanation of why I tend not to use underlining. Some people fucking love comic sans, for instance. Others hate it. Me... I'm meh on it, doesn't bother me as much as it seems to others. And I like Papyrus. I don't care what other people think of it. Papyrus is awesome and will weather the storm. I used to be terribly fond of serifs but these days I'm more into arial narrow.

Posted by: Birger Johansson | July 29, 2010 9:31 AM

gdh @ 315:
"Bugger that. I'm holding out for some form of brain entry device"

-So hackers in the future will be able to hack into your brain and fry it? Is this the "Black Ice" malware Gibson was writing about?
The idea has its mertis. Spammers of the future will get a load of Black Ice shot straight into their brains. Too bad if they left a false trail to some innocent bloke...

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 29, 2010 9:50 AM

So, I've had my enjoyable rant on the underlining, and said all I feel is necessary to say on the topic¹. It was rhetorically directed only at the "pointless whiners"² a set which does not include most of the posters here; in fact the only whining was from one person, as far as I know, whose 'nym I forget. I generally let steeping whiners lie, but sometimes allow myself the luxury when I detect a personal affront. If anybody but that person feels targeted, it was not my intention, and I will redouble my efforts in any future rants to make that implicitly clear³.

So, to summarize: my rant was not directed at people who think underlining is ugly or inappropriate. There may be others, but I recall specifically Ol' Greg and Benjamin. I'm totally OK with people thinking the underlining is ugly. I think it's ugly. I explained why I use it anyway. My rant was directed at the person insisting that I accomodate their personal taste, and any of their (silent, as far as I can see⁴) sympathizers.

I prefer to talk about beer.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | July 29, 2010 10:08 AM

"C of E Vicar in Shock Scandal"
but not what you might expect

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 29, 2010 10:09 AM

Oh, and somebody mentioned Sheep Dip before I went all sidetrack: I had totally forgotten about that scotch. I got some for a birthday long ago and it disappeared almost immediately, and I didn't share it much either (Which is unusual for me and scotch!). I have got tae keep me eyes open for some more of that bonnie stuff!

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 10:10 AM

Papyrus needs to die a fiery death. But I will not actively bring it about, out of respect for Ol'Greg, who has demonstrated good taste otherwise.

I'm a sans serif lover myself. Sadly, the government loves TNR, so I'm stuck in the 80s on most of my font choices (marketing materials being the exception).

Helvetica forever!

Posted by: Ewan R | July 29, 2010 10:20 AM

Mr Fire - on insurance and hospital costs in general - that's abysmal - I spent a week in hospital last year (where I got to use the most expensive machine in the hospital, but not the machine that goes PING) and upon seeing the breakdown of costs showing what I would have had to pay ~$40,000, what the insurance ended up paying (~$5,000-10,000 if I remember) and what I was charged ($715 which I argued down to $350 as my single room was a medical necessity, not a private luxury, and I certainly did not receive, nor would I pay $15 for, hospital slippers) which left me even more infuriated at the health "care" system in the US - one computer glitch or miskeyed entry would have left me contemplating a quick trip to the UK where I'd have remained as a hospital bill avoider - hopefully you can resolve the cost.

Josh OSG - your continued e-cig saga leaves me feeling fluffy and warm inside. Hopefully this isn't a precursor to another hospital stay...

And finally a general rant about how I despair for the intellectual cesspit from whence I escaped:-

I'm guessing that my facebook "friends" entourage of actual friends and people I went to school with and was morbidly curious about is not completely atypical. I have maybe 10-15 people on there, all of whom added me (I'm not much of an adder - can't stand snakes), who I went to various early stages of school with and who I occasionally take note of as some sort of voyeuristic view into what my own life may have been like had my parents not been utterly bizarre (by local standards anyway, ie they read books)

So, one guy posts an update which at first I took to be just some random piece of silliness "If there's no oxygen in space then how does the sun burn?" - given that I'm more voyeuristic than interactive with these folk (as I lived a life cowering in terror from many of them) I left it at that - until another unknown to me facebooker decided to give the "scientific" explanation - "the sun isn't just hydrogen but is also many other gases including oxygen, and this is why it can burn" - which given my level of nerdliness made my eyes bleed just a touch. Particularly as this was accepted moments later by the original poster as the final scientific word on the matter.

So I corrected him, in rather simple terms, explaining that the sun doesn't "burn" in the conventional sense, but that hydrogen nuclei are forced together at high pressures and so on and so forth - no real scientific depth but at least a facsimilie of the truth.

To which I received the reply "Ewan needs to get out more. Nerd"

This infuriated me. This is knowledge that frankly anyone should have (or at least have had access to) well before high school is even a distant dot on the scholastic horizon. But apparently the cohort of asshats I grew up with are perfectly content to wallow in absolute ignorance and infact to raise it up as some sort of ideal from which any deviation shall be punishable by insults generally left behind at age 16 (the guy is the same age as me). It also saddens me - most the people I grew up with were perfectly capable of getting a decent education and climbing out of the dung heap in which they found themselves but a culture in which any sign of intellect which isn't directed towards crime or understanding the offside rule is a bad thing has apparently crushed any hope and left most of my generation (at least from that locality) in essentially the mindset I had when I was 17 years old (when life revolved around whether or not I would ever get laid, and the persuit of enough alcohol to get totally wasted)

Blah.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | July 29, 2010 10:33 AM

WTF is going on here?
Isn't content more important than style?
Do we have (a) tone style troll(s)?

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 10:42 AM

Cannabinaceae
Think of it as a fun sans serif puzzle. You can be just like Sherlock Holmes or Dr. House. But, you know, with fonts. Join the thrill ride.

SteveV
I think we probably have too many tech writers or graphic designers. You tend to care more about the silly details when they make up your career. But it does get boring for those not loaded down by the weight of 12-point, bold, underlined, all-caps Times New Roman headings (if only we could lighten the load by losing those serifs!).

In other words, point taken.

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 10:49 AM

I just want to point out that I really hate mornings

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 29, 2010 10:59 AM

Jules, Ol'Greg, et al.:

Re fonts, the real problem is not that the fonts themselves are good or bad, necessarily, but that the fact that everybody has certain fonts has led them to be both overused and misused (overmisused?).

Comic Sans was intended to emulate the sort of hand lettering that one sees in comic books and strips, and if it were only used in contexts where that sort of hand lettering would be appropriate, it would be fine. Similarly, Papyrus is a beautiful display font that, in moderation, can be used (or combined with special typographical effects) to make great titles. Neither is suitable for large blocks of text, nor is either suitable for broad use in web design. Unfortunately, since essentially everybody has them and only a tiny fraction of those people actually knows anything about typography, those two and many other ubiquitous "standard" fonts have been so overexposed that they've become self-parody, and are no longer usable even in the contexts in which they ought to be perfectly acceptable.

As for serifs versus sans, the shop I work in uses sans serif (Arial) for titles, running headings, and headers and footers, but serifs (Time New Roman) for body text. To my eye, that makes for a clean, easily readable page, and body text set in sans bothers me. That said, there appears to be no sound, definitive science to support the old notion that serifs aid in readability... but there's also no definitive science contradicting it. One source I looked at theorizes that readers prefer serifs mostly because of familiarity, rather than any actual cognitive/perceptual advantage of serifs.

In any case, with the resolution of current printers and display screens, the truth is that pretty much any font that's not distractingly decorative will be acceptably readable. If folks would just restrict their use of decorative fonts to decorative instances, we could no doubt all be happy!

Posted by: windy | July 29, 2010 11:08 AM

I do recall that Cyrano de Bergerac includes a narrative, told by Cyrano, of space flight (accomplished by capturing the morning dew in glass globes, and then letting its rise carry the traveler into the heavens) that's often referenced as one of the early examples of science fiction.

Wow, good guess! But it was the real Cyrano, not Rostand or the character from the play:

Cyrano de Bergerac: The Other World. The Societies and Governments of the Moon

At one point, one of the characters describes a theory that's almost evolutionary, although it attributes the origin of both living and non-living things to the random movement of matter:

“You are amazed that matter can form a man when matter is all mixed up at random and so many things go into making a person. But do you not realize that before matter forms someone it has also stopped along the way to make a stone, lead, coral, a flower, or a comet because there was too much or too little of it to make a human being? No wonder, then, that an infinite amount of incessantly moving and changing matter makes up the few animals, vegetables and minerals that we see. No wonder, either, that if you throw dice a hundred times, they will all show the same numbers at some point.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | July 29, 2010 11:12 AM

windy, Bill Dauphin -
It's fromThe Other World: The Societies and Governments of the Moon
(or, if you prefer, The Other World: The Societies and Governments of the Moon) by Savinien de Cyrano de Bergerac.

Posted by: monado | July 29, 2010 11:14 AM

Kevin, I think you're supposed to send a "book enquiry" to publishers first: a statement of the kind of book and its audience, an outline, and a sample chapter. Then they can tell you that if you keep up the quality to the sample, they'll publish it, and perhaps send you an advance. Which, sadly, is their estimate of how much it will bring in, not just a fraction thereof. You can also try to find an agent who will do the negotiating with publishers for you, for a percentage of the profit.

That is a more reliable way of selling a book than doing all the work and submitting it to a publisher's "slush pile" and hoping that they have a hole in their publishing schedule. It's also faster.

Disclaimer: I've never done either myself, but so I've been told.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 29, 2010 11:43 AM

windy (@371):

Well, at least I was on the right track, eh? I've always known that Cyrano was a real person, but I've never known much about him, or whether the play depicts him at all accurately (including whether that SF tale reflected something Cyrano actually said/wrote).

After I posted my guess, I wikied Rostand and realized that both the play (1897) and Rostand himself (died at age 50 in 1918) were more recent, in historical terms, than I had imagined. Perhaps I was unconsciously conflating the historical era of Rostand/Cyrano with that of the real Cyrano.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 29, 2010 11:57 AM

my habit of subscripting the hell out of everything

those were superscripts, dumbass!!!!!

Do you do dishes?

With ex-professional efficiency. Also I always leave the seat down.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | July 29, 2010 12:07 PM

SteveV (@378 and 380), I hope my response didn't prompt all this handwringing and remorse from you. I actually thought you had a good point; I was just trying to make it clear which side of the line I meant to be on.

Also, you know OMs don't have any actual power, right? I'd probably delete that from my MT nym, except that getting it to work in the first place was such a PITA that I don't want to risk fucking with it now.

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 29, 2010 12:12 PM

my habit of subscripting the hell out of everything

those were superscripts, dumbass!!!!!

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 12:28 PM

For anyone who doesn't know, I'm 21, weigh around 130 lbs

You know what is funny to me? When I first encountered you here I imagined you as a bit heavy. I don't know why.

I don't think you had described yourself at that time. I seem to remember not realizing how young you were at that time either.

I think its just really fun to see the way the online personalities fit into the whole person!

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 12:33 PM

Haha... I usually type everything in notepad or in whatever IDE I'm in. Don't think about font really until I have to.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 12:47 PM

@Ol'Greg:

My handwriting is indecipherable. That's probably the only limitation to my hand-writing all the edits for my story. When I'm finished - a little over a quarter done :D - I know I'll go back to page one of the edits and be like 'what the hell does this mean?'

@People who raise and or are familiar with horses:

I need to do some research on horses for my story - I've never ridden one in my life, and they scared me as a kid, so I've never gone anywhere close to them in a long time. I'm at the point where I have to bring out the horses into the story (long distance travel) and I just want to be sure I'm not making stuff up.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 12:51 PM

On another subject I got waaay too upset about a disappointing setback today and almost melted down at work.

Had to hide in the toilet until I got the tears under control (last thing IT women need to be seen doing is crying!), and scrounged some sedatives from a friend... back on track now.

In all fairness it was really fucking disappointing, but my OTT reaction probably owes to the phenomenal stress I put myself under (often for results no one cares about anyway), lack of sleep, fears I won't do well in these classes, and absolute anger that I wasn't able to meet a deadline for something I'd been working on compounded by the fact that no one even gives a damn anyway except that it doesn't make me look any more efficient (although it would have been a miracle if I pulled it off, frankly) :( Gah!

High stress on job, high stress at home. I got two days left though and that's it. I get too freaking angry when I realize my plans aren't going to materialize. Just gotta let go! It usually works out better then anyway.

But anyway... just getting way uptight over fonts in general makes me think of that. Some times... some times it's the little things!

I also hate my outfit today. Dress is too short for work. I feel naked. I should have worn it with pants or black leggings.

Ok. That's my thread rant for the morning. Where's the complaints box now?

Posted by: Paul | July 29, 2010 12:54 PM

Oh shit, did I just imply that an OM was a t***l?

[remembers his place, blushes]

Blushing? Think of the OM as a target. They're traitors to the gnu atheist cause, meditating like that. Plus, they generally have interesting things to say (or interesting ways of saying them), so they're more interesting to engage with.

You know what is funny to me? When I first encountered you here I imagined you as a bit heavy. I don't know why.

For me it was the constant talk about how unattractive and unlovable he is. In my extensive internet experience that tends to mean "is carrying a bit of extra weight", although I'm not particularly proud of the neural connections there.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 29, 2010 12:57 PM

New atheist PM of Australia tries to calm the fears of religious constituents. And she was sworn in without placing her hand on a bible.

New Prime Minister Julia Gillard assured Australia's Christian majority on Thursday that her atheism would not affect government funding to church-run schools if she is re-elected.
     Gillard, who was sworn in last month and promptly called elections, was the first prime minister in the federation's 109-year history to take an affirmation of office instead of swearing on a Bible....

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 29, 2010 12:59 PM

Shit, editing fail, incoherence succeed. Maybe I should get back to work on TFT¹. Which I can at least revise when I notice fuckups.

The Fucking Thesis.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 29, 2010 12:59 PM

IIRC, Catholic.

He's just a second rate Stephen King, anyway.

Brian runs over someone somewhere in new england.

Rushes out. "Oh my god! ..Are you Steven King!?"
"No i'm... Dean... Koontz..."
"Oh."
Brian gets back in the car, runs over him again as he continues on his way.

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 29, 2010 1:03 PM

I know nothing of horses, except their brains are walnuts, and I may be wrong about that.

However, whenever I read Dick Francis, I have the feeling of knowing everything about horses.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 29, 2010 1:05 PM

@Ol'Greg,
That describes my writing almost exactly. It makes me so thankful for these little typing devices that allow me to be understood when writing.
@Nigel the Bold in 364
Well, I have never had to chase my government to get them to pay any hospital, doctor, specialist, etc costs for me. Neither have I had to convince any of the medical services to accept that they have received adequate payment already from my government. Just the time saved is worth moving the money from your insurance premiums to taxes.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 1:12 PM

I figure I'll actually need to find a horse farm in the area and go to it cause nothing beats first hand experience...

Of course they still scare me.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 29, 2010 1:17 PM

KOPD:

They have great ergonomic keyboards. Most of 'em are pricey, but it's often worth it.

I'm drooling over a Kinesis keyboard. Want.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 1:21 PM

@Ben:

Ergonomic keyboards confuse the heck out of me - I understand they're a heck of a lot better for you, but I type in a very strange kind of way that neither of my hands exactly take control of one part of the keyboard, so I'd have to completely relearn my style of typing.

Posted by: Paul | July 29, 2010 1:26 PM

Ergonomic keyboards confuse the heck out of me - I understand they're a heck of a lot better for you, but I type in a very strange kind of way that neither of my hands exactly take control of one part of the keyboard, so I'd have to completely relearn my style of typing.

I do the same. I used a "natural keyboard" for awhile when they were first appearing in the wild. I didn't relearn, people just looked at me funny when I'd be crossing my hands to hit certain keys. I blame learning how to type while playing MMOs. At least I use my right hand to type instead of just keeping it on the mouse now, although my typing is still very idiosyncratic.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | July 29, 2010 1:28 PM

For me it was the constant talk about how unattractive and unlovable he is. In my extensive internet experience that tends to mean "is carrying a bit of extra weight", although I'm not particularly proud of the neural connections there.

Well, I guess I'm an exception to the rule. I've never been overweight, or even close to it: I tend to fluctuate between moderate weight and very thin. As of today I weigh 58 kg / 128 lbs, and the most I've ever weighed is around 140 lbs.

In my case, I suspect my unattractiveness is more about my demeanour, self-presentation and the way I interact with people, rather than any one identifiable physical feature. But I don't really know. Though, these days, I try not to talk about it here too often... objectively it's not such a big deal, and it's irritating and boring to others.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | July 29, 2010 1:35 PM

In all fairness it was really fucking disappointing, but my OTT reaction probably owes to the phenomenal stress I put myself under (often for results no one cares about anyway), lack of sleep, fears I won't do well in these classes, and absolute anger that I wasn't able to meet a deadline for something I'd been working on compounded by the fact that no one even gives a damn anyway except that it doesn't make me look any more efficient (although it would have been a miracle if I pulled it off, frankly) :( Gah!

:-( :-( :-(

I do worry sometimes about the amount of stress you're under at the moment. And missing so much sleep can't be good for you either.

I hope you feel better soon.

Posted by: crowepps | July 29, 2010 1:37 PM

It has at least one explicitly atheistic character, and other characters that are not atheist but make fun of Christian concepts.

I won't highjack the thread by discussing exactly which ones I personally find risible, but looked at objectively ALL religions (with the exception of Buddhism) tend to revolve around a god indistinguishable from a very powerful human instead of anybody/thing that might possibly qualify as a force capable of conceiving and building a universe. Most religions aren't compelling to the intelligent due to the inability of those yearning for an 'absolute moral law' to incorporate either imagination or subtlety.

In my opinion, persons yearning for a natural law or absolute truth by which 'all moral questions have one absolute rioght answer' have that goal because they are uncomfortable taking responsibility for their decisions and want a list of rules that will obviate the need to ever make any moral choice because its all covered in the SOP, with checklists.

Posted by: heatherly | July 29, 2010 1:44 PM

Also, WTF?!?!?!

Posted by: Ariel from Canada | July 29, 2010 1:47 PM

Pygmy Loris

I was dissapointed about Mat too, he was also my fav character. Sanderson sort of says the changes are on purpose, becuase Mat is changing as he adjusts to being married and growing up. He just felt off to me in a way I couldn't put my finger on though.

Heatherly

Have you read Charlaine Harris? It's modern day fantasy/horror/romance, and is definitely brain candy. I watched a few epidsodes of the tv show True Blood and didn't feel that they captured it very well.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 1:52 PM

@heatherly:

WTF indeed... sick stuff.

@Jules:

Yes... they're huge, which is what's so scary about them for me. I think I'll have to learn how it feels to be on a horse while riding, too - though again - SCARY.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 29, 2010 2:07 PM

I live in B.C. and that is news to me. Disturbing, fist shaking, 'what is wrong with these people?' news. It just dropped in the local media and will have some big repercussions as details come out.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 2:10 PM

For me it was the constant talk about how unattractive and unlovable he is.

For me it was because he's English. For some reason I think of the English as heavy. Which is, statistically, funny because it's the US that has the largest concentration of fat people! But I wasn't thinking fat fat, just heavy. Maybe because he seemed like he spent so much time inside. So I tend to think that wouldn't keep you skinny. Except I spend all my time inside and for most of my life was super-skinny.

So logic fail there, but that's ok. I also imagined Walton as perpetually wearing a suit or tux, and according to his pictures he does spend about 95% of his time in one it seems :P

As for unattractiveness? Wrong beholders I guess. But we all know how I feel! lol

I hope you can get out of that environment--are those last two days just for this week, or for the job?

Oh it's just a temporary thing. I love my job actually. I'm one of those "type A" people, although most people never notice because I don't put pressure much on *other* people. I tend to trust other people to manage their own time and space, and mostly just listen to people's problems and make tacit suggestions for efficiency etc.

So people figure I'm just laid back... but I'm not that way with myself at all. I'm a fucking taskmaster usually with several massive projects underway at any time. If I don't have something big to work on I find something big to work on... one of those.

I just have to prevent myself from getting too upset when I've put unreasonable demands on myself and failed to meet them.

It's the net achievement I should be looking at...

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 2:14 PM

haha Kevin. I've actually been toying with the idea of putting my clothing stuff on my regular blog. I used to participate in a site kind of like polyvore which was all fashion oriented but the site kind of went down the tubes and I got bored.

I care way too much about clothing!

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 2:17 PM

@Ol'Greg:

Yeah - me too kinda...

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 29, 2010 2:25 PM

You know what pisses me off about this stupid "Piss Off a Pedant Day" meme? When you're a real pedant* you're already pissed off almost all the time.

The object of the celebration to form so solid a front of concerted pissing off that you're killed in the process.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 29, 2010 2:37 PM

[...]so I can see a horse actually moving[....]

They move like a striking cobra. At least, the part with the teeth does. And have I mentioned their vicious tendancy to lash out with their razor-sharp hooves? For no adequately-explained reason.

Dislike horses? Me? Whyever would you think that?

In my opinion, persons yearning for a natural law or absolute truth by which 'all moral questions have one absolute rioght answer' have that goal because they are uncomfortable taking responsibility for their decisions and want a list of rules that will obviate the need to ever make any moral choice because its all covered in the SOP, with checklists.

And so they can scope out the list for technicalities and loopholes that let them do what they want, regardless.

Jules, I'm sorry to hear that you're having a bad day. And thank you, and you're welcome. :)

Of course, nothing beats the visceral response of actually being there with the animal.

Yep. When I think "horses", I definitely think "viscera".

Did I mention that they are venonomous?

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 29, 2010 2:42 PM

Yep. When I think "horses", I definitely think "viscera".

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 2:47 PM

cicely=my new best friend

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | July 29, 2010 2:48 PM

You know, Hitler liked horses.

Posted by: windy | July 29, 2010 2:50 PM

Did I mention that they are venonomous?

But if you remove the poison glands, they're edible, and quite tasty

Posted by: blf | July 29, 2010 2:52 PM

I tend to use a slanted or oblique typeface for titles (rather than italics (don't recall now quite why I got into that habit)), and avoid underlining like the plague. Of course that's all in typeset works, not webshite…

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 29, 2010 3:03 PM

You know, Hitler liked horses.

Indeed. And did you know that Caligula was raised to the imperial throne in Rome at the instigation of his horse? Tell me that there were no shenanigans there! It paid off handsomely, too, what with the marble stable with the ivory manger, the jeweled collar and purple blankets, and hot and cold running servants.

You know what they say; one hoof washes the other.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | July 29, 2010 3:13 PM

Apparently to the ants, her vaginal fluid was like liquid candy to them, and the underwear was swarming.

Ants came after my spit once. And of course ants aren't they only one who likes a bodily fluids:

Strawberry Splasherita

1 cup frozen sliced strawberries
1/2 cup good quality tequila
1/4 cup triple sec
1 tablespoon fresh semen
2 cups crushed ice

Combine all ingredients except semen in a blender and blend until smooth. Pour into a sugar-rimmed glass. Float the semen over the drink. It will coagulate as it cools and adds a special finishing touch to this popular drink.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 3:17 PM

@Pikachu:

Seriously?

Posted by: JeffreyD | July 29, 2010 3:28 PM

I prefer coming no closer to a horse than the glue bottle or the dog food can.

Horses regularly act as familiars to satan worshipers - cats just got a bad rap. (Cats ARE satan, but that is another story)

Horses were seen loitering in the vicinity when Lincoln was shot. There were horses in Central Park on 9/11. Plus, jezuz never rode one (he sat on his ass to enter Jerusalem). I think that says it all.*

*Hmm, this conspiracy stuff is easy.

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | July 29, 2010 3:41 PM

@JeffreyD

Oh yeah? Well you know who else didn't like horses? Stalin*.

* Actually, I have no idea. But he did have some permanent damage to his arm as a result of horse-drawn carriage accidents as a child.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | July 29, 2010 3:46 PM

@Pikachu:

Seriously?

Where you there when I posted the entire recipe book of semen based recipes?

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 29, 2010 3:51 PM

Apparently not here.

Anyway - work done. I gotta email heatherly.

Posted by: Aratina Cage | July 29, 2010 4:09 PM

Sili,

I hopped over to that thread and noticed your last comment. Did he actually delete one of your comments that included a link to Language Log?

Posted by: David Marjanović | July 29, 2010 4:48 PM

Congratulations to Caine and Josh!!!

Did some (rather symbolic) digging for potatoes yesterday. Found bright yellow potatoes in all sizes (there were a couple of very big ones), very thin earthworms, huge* and very thick earthworms, a short, fat centipede, a white spider, a tiny white insect that may have been a supergiant springtail (it didn't jump, though), and an orange beast that must have been a beetle larva.

* Not by Australian standards, of course.

The August issue of the German magazine GEO contains numbers about oil spills on p. 20:

Single catastrophes
(in 1000 tonnes of oil)

Lakeview, drill hole accident, 1910/11: 1200
Gulf war, oil deliberately poured into Persian gulf by Iraqi military, 1991: 800
Ixtoc I, drill platform accident, 1979/80: 450
Deepwater Horizon, drill platform accident, as of June 2010: 400

Permanent pollution
(in 1000 tonnes of oil per year)

Oceans, without natural oil springs: 700
Oceans, natural oil springs alone: 600
North Sea: 20
Siberia: 100 to 300
Oil losses by end consumers (cars etc.), USA: 48
Niger delta: 30

Total permanent pollution
(in 1000 tonnes of oil)

Niger delta in the last 50 years: 1500
Amazon basin in Ecuador in 30 years, Texaco alone: 60

Has been pissing Confucian pedants off since 1443.

ISWYDT.

WDIDT? Is piss off inseparable, and I should have written has been pissing off Confucian pedants since 1443?

Hi, David Marjanović! I found your name (sans accent) in Adrienne Mayor's book!

Imaginable. We're both on the Dinosaur Mailing List, as is Ken Carpenter, so I may once have answered one of her questions. I haven't managed to put the accent into my e-mail "From:" line... The date (2005) fits.

I just love the phrase "pre-Darwinian cultures".

WELCOME BACK!!!!! Where's the toothy goodness?

...Oh.

Well, one guy on the dig is doing his, IIRC, PhD thesis on Late Cretaceous lizards from Mongolia and had a Russian book on them with him, so I got to show Jadehawk a drawing of the beast photographed in the third picture on this page, which is a popular article on "lizards in the epoch of the dinosaurs" by the same author (V. R. Alifanov).

There's more goodness in the same article, some of it toothy. The first picture is a photo of a mounted skeleton of the especially large mosasaur Hainosaurus. (The skeleton behind that one is also from a mosasaur, but probably not Hainosaurus.) The second picture is a drawing of a mosasaur fighting a "gigantic squid". The sixth compares Velociraptor to Estesia at the same scale; Estesia is called a monitor (goanna) here, though recent analyses find it to be closer to the gila monsters. BTW, The claws on the raised 2nd toes of Velociraptor are drawn far, far too small. The eighth shows a mass of lizard lower jaws found in the Early Cretaceous of Höövör in Mongolia. The second-to-last one shows a partial skeleton of Slavoia from the Late Cretaceous of Mongolia; it has a remarkably caniniform tooth. Slavoia is what the guy on the dig did his MSc thesis on, IIRC.

Incidentally, that person, who shall still remain nameless, had a lot of silent success with the ladies. Tall, dark, and... I don't remember if he was called handsome, but some mentioned in my presence that they... like the way he swung the pickaxe: in the sun, topless, by throwing his entire (long) vertebral column into wave motions. I don't know if he still has his girlfriend from last year.

Not to mention his consistency with characters--he has over 1,700 named characters, and they never act out of character.

That's not a feature, it's a bug. Over 1,700 named characters, all of them different? To me this looks like the "two character traits" claim must be true. :-S

And who's supposed to keep up with that many characters anyway?

Ishiguro has a really remarkable control of the English language, even more amazing as he only came to England st the age of five or six.

"Only"? The only nonnative speaker of my dialect I know, and possibly the only one in the world, came to Austria from Hungary at that age, and he spoke like native when I went to school with him almost 20 years ago (5th year of school). And my dad forgot his Hungarian mother tongue at the same age; his native language is now... let's call it Serbian. Shortly later, he learned French, too, and he speaks that, too, like native, to the point that he thinks in it when he writes in it – even though he remembers that it was hard to learn.

I can handle carrots in Korean food sometimes.

Carrots belong into soup, where they need to be boiled for long enough that they're no longer crisp and no longer sweet.

a former priest who accidentally killed his god

:-D

Gardens rule.

As long as you can bear the workload. The house with garden I'm sitting in will be sold because nobody in the extended family has time to come here every few weeks and do the most urgent stuff. :-( Nobody lives here all year round, uphill from the nearest town, 50 km from the nearest city with 200,000 inhabitants, 250 km from Vienna. Tomorrow morning the official estimator will come to estimate what it's all worth.

3)There will be polish pickle soup for dinner tonight, just because we had it at the dig, and I've been having cravings for it since.

Cravings? For that acidic stuff? :-D When you were eating it at the dig, you told me you were going to make a lot simply because you had lots of cucumbers growing in the garden and couldn't stand eating them any other way anymore!

I have grown to hate underlined text as I have progressed through my current copy editing project. This author does it absolutely randomly. For example, "T cells are..." Why can't she just say T cells or leave the underline off completely (my preference)? What is the point of underlining a single letter when it's part of a compound phrase?

Is it "T cells as opposed to B cells"?

As an aside, I have the same feelings for those that use b and i instead of strong and em.

Then brace yourself. <snarl>

Sometimes, bold and italics (italics especially) are used for purposes other than emphasis. Behold, for instance, Big-R Recommendation 6 of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature: "The scientific names of genus- or species-group taxa should be printed in a type-face (font) different from that used in the text; such names are usually printed in italics, which should not be used for names of higher taxa." Such names aren't emphasized by putting them in italics, they're just marked as valid; emphasizing them requires additional boldface, underlining or whatever.

In these and many other cases, I want to have full control over how the reader's browser will display what I write. At least in theory, that isn't the case with <strong> and <em>.

Finally, <b> and >i> are faster to type. As long as they still work (and all that silly talk about "depreciation" hasn't led to them actually being abolished), I don't see why I shouldn't use them for that reason alone...

The persistence of underlining for things like book titles is, I believe, a holdover from the Typewriter Age©. Other such cultural artifacts, which I have to deal with all the time in my day job, include [...] typing two spaces after periods

That one is a strictly English-language phenomenon that I've never encountered elsewhere, and in the last 50 years it has been restricted to the USA, AFAIK.

However, an obvious holdover from the Typewriter Age is the French reluctance to use accents on capital letters, which is now fading away, though I know an emerita who insisted that putting accents on uppercase letters is just not done. On typewriters, it would have required at least one extra key, and it's still difficult to do on French computer keyboards.

Here's some Truth in Advertising.

Bookmarked.

as a law student, I was always taught to underline names of cases when writing by hand. I always thought that, when writing by hand, one is supposed to underline text which would be italicised if it were printed - such as book titles, foreign words and phrases, or names of cases. But I could be wrong.

In a specialized course on biological nomenclature, I was taught to... underwave... underline with a wavy line what should be printed in italics, means, words that fall under Recommendation 6. (Except for the exam to that course, I've never applied that; I was already able to write with a slant by hand. My normal handwriting is vertical.)

Helvetica forever!

Wow, that link is evil.

(And Arial is a bit more beautiful anyway.)

Ok. That's my thread rant for the morning. Where's the complaints box now?

<hug>

I'm drooling over a Kinesis keyboard. Want.

I can't deal with an angle between the areas for the hands. I call such keyboards "reptile keyboards" because they assume you sprawl your arms. I don't. I even use cutlery by moving my wrists, not by ramming my elbows into the neighbors. Sprawling would require not simply letting the elbows hang down, and that would be an extra effort. No, thanks.

My handwriting is ugly, but (if you know Austrian elementary-school handwriting, and apply some logical thinking) always legible. I refuse to write so fast that I couldn't read it myself anymore; I once failed an exam for that reason.

back in my porn writing days

Suddenly makes me wonder how many porn writers are asexual.

I hopped over to that thread and noticed your last comment. Did he actually delete one of your comments that included a link to Language Log?

Link, please.

BTW, is this the fastest subthread ever?!?

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 29, 2010 5:12 PM

I started riding horses when I was 3 years old. They are insane, but I love 'em anyway. Yee hah!

Ants used to be used as a diagnostic tool for diabetes - pee on a flat stone, if you get a lot of ants, you have a sugar problem. Or, so it was said.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 29, 2010 5:29 PM

Caine, hippophilia is a serious condition, destroying lives, tearing families apart, and costing tax payers millions, if not billions, of dollars every year. Please...seek help. Now. While there's still time. It's not too late.

(And in the distance, a sinister *whinny* is heard.)

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | July 29, 2010 5:46 PM

I've never ridden a horse, that I can recall. Apparently I rode a pony at the seaside once when I was a small child, but I don't remember it.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 29, 2010 5:55 PM

I think I would like horse riding, but the places I would want to ride I can take my bike. It's always nice to bump into the other trail riders while I am out. (Well, not bump, more like slow down, stop, let the 1000 pounds of horse and person have right of way, wish them well and then continue.)

Posted by: Birger Johansson | July 29, 2010 6:11 PM

Ariel from Canada @ 422
"Also, just started the Dresden books last night. Not very far in but so far so good."

If you liked them, you will probably like Kim Harrison's "Rachel Morgan" series. If you like more hard-boiled urban gothic I would recommend Charlie Huston's "Joe Pitt" books, starting with "Alreadt Dead".

blf @ 450: "I am proud to be a member of the Garrett club of horsehaters."

A fellow Garrett fan!!! I am the only living human in Scandinavia to have discovered the Garrett series (a new title will be published this fall).

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 29, 2010 6:17 PM

Rutee:

That was one of the few Family Guy Manatee jokes i remember really liking.

Ha! Yeah. Around that time there was also a Robot Chicken episode that basically called Dean Koontz a poor man's Stephen King.

Poor Dean. I might actually pity him if he stopped writing stupid books about golden retrievers.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 29, 2010 6:24 PM

ODS:

"BrownTrout Publishers Inc"?

Posted by: Birger Johansson | July 29, 2010 6:31 PM

Cannabinaceae @ 233 on Stephenson and Cryptonomicon.
That novel is interesting for several reasons. For instance it is so well researched that the mistakes are trivial. The satelite mapping underwater mountains used passive gravimetry instead of radar, the Me 262 had a range just short of actually reaching the site in North Sweden, but all the things that matter are correct.

ujjjjjjjjjjjjj66666666666666655555559090909ooooooo (Cat walking on the keyboard. I let them get away with it because they are so charming when they create chaos just by existing)

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 29, 2010 6:37 PM

Creepy fucking parrot update:

It now meows. :-/

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 29, 2010 6:43 PM

All right. I'm out of the thread about Christian teenage boys telling women what to wear and what not to wear. Some commenters are willfully misreading what I tried to say, so fuck it.

As a palate cleanser, here are a couple of lines from a poem by Bruce Embree. Bruce died a few years ago, but he was at one time a force to be reckoned with in the mormon corridor:

"…fuck me to dust
under the chickenshit Mormon sun…"

Posted by: Aratina Cage | July 29, 2010 6:47 PM

David Marjanović,

Good to see you back!

Re: #463:

Link, please.

A post over at WEIT titled Grammar Police brought out the pedants and apparently dissent and criticism, such as was offered by Sili (twice it seems), is not allowed—censored even.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 29, 2010 7:10 PM

Heatherly:

Can you tape that and upload it? I've never heard a parrot meow.

I'll give it a shot, sure. The parrot has quieted down (for now), so it might take me a couple of days to get a good recording.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 29, 2010 7:25 PM

@ Lynna -

Perhaps we should refer marilove to this NSFW Regretsy link for clarification of the dangers involved when a hot young lady sits on a bear's lap.

Seriously.

And having lived in DC for the better part of 40 years, I don't want anyone to complain about 30% humidity and 100 degree heat. Really truly - this is not a good way to get me to sympathize.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 29, 2010 7:44 PM

Mattir @489

Perhaps we should refer marilove to this NSFW Regretsy link for clarification of the dangers involved when a hot young lady sits on a bear's lap.

marilove has damaged comprehension skills, she can't get it, she won't get it -- I see a couple of other people besides me tried to explain the discussion to her.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 29, 2010 7:51 PM

Excellent news - a modesty advocate has shown up on the Teenage Boy Fashion Police thread. Yippee!

Posted by: David Marjanović | July 29, 2010 8:01 PM

Right, but >i> makes whole blocks of text just vanish. A stupid and useless sequence, really.

...eh... yeah.

A post over at WEIT titled Grammar Police

Ah, thanks. I just left a flurry of comments. The funniest part is that the title is so wrong – even in the comments, almost none of the examples are about grammar, it's all just etymology and the spelling of homophones!

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 29, 2010 8:06 PM

Ol'Greg:

My unintentional tribute to what is sounding like an awesome bird!

Oh man, you only say that 'cos you don't live near it. That blasted thing is so damn loud that I can hear it in my kitchen with my windows closed and my neighbor doesn't even live in my building.

Mattir:
I want your phallus-inspired piano.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 29, 2010 8:14 PM

@ODS - No, I don't really have a piano bench with penis-shaped legs. But I wish I did. Perhaps that could be an art project...

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 29, 2010 8:22 PM

Would that piano get played by a penist? Sorry, it's an awful habit.

Posted by: Rorschach | July 29, 2010 8:24 PM

The all time temperature record was broken in Finland today.

Well, what was it ?

Jerry Coyne turns out to be a linguistic creationist as well.

What, it's not only Bill D. ??

:P

*goes to check what's going on*

New Prime Minister Julia Gillard assured Australia's Christian majority on Thursday that her atheism would not affect government funding to church-run schools if she is re-elected.

Yeah, I've blogged a bit about that last night, fucking annoying but I guess predictable, the catholics (Archbishop of Perth et al) moaning about faith and morality again, it's all not even funny.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 29, 2010 8:28 PM

This talk of pianos reminds me of a joke:

A man walks into a bar and sees a guy sitting on a barstool drinking a beer and watching a miniature man playing a piano on the bar in front of him. Bewildered, the man asked him where did he get his little friend. The guy said that there was a genie outside the back door granting wishes, so he goes out back and sure enough, there was a genie. He walks up to the genie and says I wish for a thousand bucks. The genie said, "Granted." The man walks back into the bar and there were ducks flying everywhere. He goes back up to the man at the bar and says "That genie must be deaf, I asked for a thousand bucks, not a thousand ducks." The man replied, "What did you think I asked for, a twelve inch pianist?"

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 8:34 PM

ODS and Mattir
Your talk of this piano is a stumbling block for me. Stop forcing me to be turned on.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 8:44 PM

Highlights for my day today (in no particular order)

1. I finished a copyediting project.
2. Cicely's lesson on horses. Education is fun!
3. One of my best friends called to tell me she and her husband are expecting their first baby.
4. My iPod read my mind and played the perfect playlist.

Really, I just wanted to squeal about my friend being pregnant. I can't tell our other friends, so I thought I'd share it with the internet. I can't wait to start knitting for the lil' punkin.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 8:48 PM

heatherly
The modesty advocate is named Jasmine. It's a ways down. The conversation about the 17-year-old pretty much carries on until then, I think.

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 8:52 PM

For those of you that suggested I read books by Richard Feynman thank you.I like his outlook.Math scares the shit out of me.I am a very visual person

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 8:56 PM

ODS
You'll have to pry my flute from my cold, dead...hands.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | July 29, 2010 9:01 PM

@Jules,
That was awesome.

Posted by: A. Noyd | July 29, 2010 9:03 PM

I have my text editor set to bolded MS PGothic. It's a pseudo-sans serif font that cheats and uses different serifs on the 1 and the uppercase I, making them easy to distinguish from each other and the lowercase l. Plus, it lets me type in Japanese when I need to.

~*~*~*~*~*~

Pygmy Loris (#321)

I always hit two spaces after a period or colon, and I tend to tab new paragraphs too.

I double space after periods, too. And I fucking hate it when word processors indent for me. It's no effort at all to hit tab on each new paragraph but it's a chore and a half trying to get the goddamn program to stop thinking it knows better than me when I want a new line but don't want to indent.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 29, 2010 9:08 PM

Jules:
o.O I see what you did there.

I *heart* you!

Posted by: Weed Monkey | July 29, 2010 9:16 PM

PookDo

Tule ja katso väkivalta luonteeltaan järjestelmään. Apua! Apua! Olen tukahdutettu!

Posted by: Kieranfoy, Faerie Godfather of Death, GMKSC, OED | July 29, 2010 9:19 PM

WarHammer is Sexist? Am I missing something?

Maybe the sexism? I dunno, What do you mean?

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 9:21 PM

Weed Monkey : trying to learn Finnish and failing miserably.That and annoyed at the ongoing endless unrealistic expectations from customers and higher ups at my job.Any suggestions on how to learn Finnish easier?I want to be able to understand hockey stuff online and be able to read Finnish newspapers

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine | July 29, 2010 9:23 PM

Jules: "You'll have to pry my flute from my cold, dead...hands."

How trilling...

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 9:25 PM

Weed Monkey: read # 527

Mattir : I love the WarHammer 40,000 novels. The Space Wolves are awesome

Posted by: heatherly | July 29, 2010 9:31 PM

Mattir: I keep thinking about Skepticon but I don't know if I can afford it money-wise or time-wise, since I'm starting the new job (on Monday! Yay!) and will be just starting to accrue leave time.

Also, Southwest vs. DC? NO CONTEST. We live in a SWAMP! I had to chaperone a visit with a client and her father in DC last July--the Smithsonians, Congress, etc. I thought the dad would die of heat exhaustion--he was from Alaska. :)

Jules #515: You are awesome.

I am too tired to wade into the mud of the Ladies thread. G'nite!

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 9:36 PM

Kieranfoy

I have to admit I haven't read any of the sorcery books.Are they good?

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 29, 2010 9:39 PM

Steve Benson has a good cartoon in the July 29th issue of The Arizona Republic, riffing on the Governor of Arizona's comment, "It's just a little bump in the road."

Posted by: Weed Monkey | July 29, 2010 9:42 PM

Mattir, I've certainly enjoyed this record-setting summer and I'd be surprised to learn windy was actually complaining, either. No sympathies are necessary, at all!

PookDo, I'm really not the right person to answer that. Google will be able to find you learning material better than I, I'm afraid. Hope you get to a good start, I hear it can be tricky :)

Posted by: Kieranfoy, Faerie Godfather of Death, GMKSC, OED | July 29, 2010 9:45 PM

I'd advise trying, they're good reading. I have, of course, a few minor quibbles with the way he underplays the Inquisition's authority, but other than that...

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 29, 2010 10:00 PM

A good long while agon, Ruutee said something to the effect of "I hate Warhammer because of it's fans." Having read a well-written essay on sexism in Warhammer, and then perused the comments section, I belive I completely understand.

They're dicks.

I mean, I can think of a lot of sexism in Warhammer 40k, at least, but nothing that isn't normal nerd sexism. Oh, and the fact that the only women in combat are Sisters of Battle and Banshees. Woe betide ye if you want a woman doing anything else (You can't even get them as Voxcasters, IIRC, and communications is a stereotypically feminine role in war fiction).

Even the TAu are mono-male, apparently, and they're living in Communist Japan with Giant Robots as the race of snipers. There's no need.

WarHammer is Sexist? Am I missing something?

Oh, how about the fact that pretty much everyone important/powerful is male? The Emprah, his 13 sons, 3 of the 4 Chaos Gods, the only still-surviving Eldar Gods, every Ork Ever, Eldrad, Abbadon....

The only particularly useful women I can think of are the DoW Farseers, a couple of Inquisitors and Canonesses, etc. Slaanesh is not a woman, it's hermaphroditic, bu tit's Not-Male so that's.. unusual.

What about the fact that the 'paragons of humanity' can only be men, because nobody likes butch chicks of unnecessary technobabble? Sisters of Battle suits have boobs (Howling Banshees at least seem to have very thin armor almost excusing them).

However, all of that is something I'm completely used to. Well, not really, but I understand that it's pretty much always going to happen. Women don't get to have good characters for them, usually. They're certainly not treated as being completely within the norm. However, it sounded like he meant the fans, so I'm curious about the essay.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 10:09 PM

Jules, you mean here in Dallas? I've bought a ticket so if you're looking for a familiar face :P

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 10:13 PM

Ol'Greg
I was talking about the one in Springfield. What's going on in Dallas? I'm fond of that town (though all my friends who lived there have since moved away).

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 29, 2010 10:14 PM

Oh that's right? Smaller thing. LOL I forget who lives where around here. You're fond of Dallas? Really?

I almost never get that! lol

Posted by: Miki Z | July 29, 2010 10:21 PM

A. Noyd, you don't happen to ever use LaTeX, do you? I'm having a devil of a time trying to get it to print in Japanese from Texshop for Mac.

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 10:25 PM

WeedMonkey : I tried watching some of the world cup.Too slow.To me it's like watching curling.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 10:33 PM

PookDo
My boyfriend just went through something similar here. The dentist went ahead and pulled his tooth (finally), but she took one look at him and refused to write him a scrip for pain meds other than ibuprofen. His evil tattoos must mean he's only after the drugs. Nevermind that he had a broken tooth and abscess.

As far as writing, if we're talking about my creative stuff I don't do it *quite* every day, but pretty close. I've been tweaking my play for about 2 months, avoiding sending it out because I don't feel like formatting it (and by "formatting it" I mean "being rejected"). I don't generate any of the content for the academic publisher. I just edit what they give me. My day job requires writing, but it is of ultimate boringness. I work on proposals for government contracts.

Ol'Greg
I used to go from Oklahoma down to Dallas for fun events like Pride and various concerts. I got two tattoos at a shop down in Fort Worth. Lots of silly sentimental college stuff. Also, bbq. And that hot fireman I met that one time. Yummy. The bbq, I mean.

Posted by: PookDo | July 29, 2010 10:47 PM

Jules : When my wife started having Gall Bladder issues almost 3 years ago we went to so many doctor's and the emergency room more times than I can count.Finally it was pulled as well in july of last year only after fighting with doctor's endlessly about what was the issue.It should have come out in November 2007 but a doctor with a speech issue kept arguing with her.If there is one thing I have learned about my wife in the 6 years we have been together is that she will not go near a fucking MD of any kind unless she can't take the pain anymore.

I would give anything to be able to take a couple of local doctor's to court for malpractice and more or less accusing my wife of being a drug seeker.Let alone the ER idiots that don't read charts.

I'm sorry your boyfriend had to go through that.I was really desensitized for a long time about medical stuff because I watched my mother have surgery for something at least once a year if not every six months because she's really fucking twisted and gets off on the attention.The last 5 or 6 years have been a huge growing process for me in more ways that I can tell any of you

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 29, 2010 10:57 PM

From what I understand, Austin is a great town to live in. I have a few good friends who relocated there. It has a much better theater scene that just about anywhere else in Texas or in Oklahoma. I never made it down there, though. One of these days.

I don't think I would like to live in Dallas, but it sure can be fun to get drunk in.

Posted by: A. Noyd | July 29, 2010 11:14 PM

Miki Z (#551)

you don't happen to ever use LaTeX, do you? I'm having a devil of a time trying to get it to print in Japanese from Texshop for Mac.

Sorry, no. I don't know any markup languages other than the minimum of HTML I use here. I just like my text editor because it has tabs and is dumb enough to boss around with very little effort.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 29, 2010 11:50 PM

The fuck are you people talkin about?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6tyxo_king-crimson-elephant-talk-1981_music

Posted by: monado | July 30, 2010 12:59 AM

MrFire, whoever is doing the unnecessary billing, make sure that you phone them or visit them every day and get them to explain repeatedly where they think they got the authority to bill you, etc. Ask to speak to their supervisors and the supervisors' managers. Repeat yourself. Suggest that it's a factor of ten error. Tell long stories about your wife's labour. Ask if they can retract the bill right now and save you the trouble of suing them for fraudulent billing. Persist until they realize that you are going to cost them so much in staff time and lost resources that they won't profit by overbilling you. Also ask your insurance company what to do.

Posted by: monado | July 30, 2010 1:33 AM

Benjamin, Ha! A few years ago, I ordered a new Dell computer with an ergonomic keyboard from Dell, and the Dell technician could not make them work together.

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 30, 2010 2:13 AM

Addenda: I don't usually let emails sit for a long time unanswered, and I can understand some frustration on that point - it's just that with every additional email, I find my concerns about responding to the first one exacerbated, and it really isn't very long between them. I'm not sure if the person is interested in being my friend or dating me or being a professional contact or what. In any case, it's unlikely, as I have all kinds of alarm bells going off.

Posted by: John Morales | July 30, 2010 2:22 AM

Angel, it's not anything I have experience with, I know nothing about where you work or the applicable circumstances; but at least I can be dispassionate.

This is not advice, but my opinion based on what you've written.

I see it, you have three choices.

1. Keep being polite but non-committal with that person, and allow the situation to progress until it comes to a head.

2. Be forthright with that person, explaining your discomfort.

3. Speak with your supervisor/manager, explaining your discomfort.

OK, I lie.
I do have a suggestion: Don't delete those emails until this situation is sorted one way or another.

They're hard evidence.

--

Sorry, I wish I could be of more help.

(Best wishes.)

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | July 30, 2010 2:54 AM

Angel
Keep a diary/log. Write down what happens as soon as possible after the event and your impressions and feelings as they occur. If this is a short term issue and goes away in the natural course of things, then no loss, if it develops in more unwelcome ways then you have a contemporaneous record. Always useful and it costs almost nothing.
Copies of your posts here would work.

Please remember that I'm a man and,try as II might, I don't fully understand. Miss M says I don't understand AT ALL!

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 30, 2010 3:00 AM

Angel, agreeing with the others regarding his emails, keep them. As for the man himself, time for you to be assertive. You can be assertive and polite, however, I wouldn't bother with polite. If polite makes you feel better, go for it. Something to the effect of:

"Dude, you have made me very uncomfortable with your aggressiveness in attempting to communicate with me. I don't appreciate your aggressiveness and I certainly do not appreciate your attempts to control both the situation and my response. I will not be responding to your emails, so if you persist, do not expect a response. I will, of course, continue to be polite and helpful while at work, however, I will not put up with any sort of harassment or anything on your part which interferes with my ability to work. If you do harass me at work, I will report it."

Good luck, and do *not* be afraid to report this man to whoever the hell you have to if the alarm bells keep ringing and his behaviour continues or escalates.

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 30, 2010 3:13 AM

Caine, that's excellent. Thank you. Yeah, I can do it. I'll probably end up being somewhat too polite, but I will have to be clear about what I found so off-putting and the fact that I will not be responding to future emails, and I probably will get a friend to read it over to make sure I'm not overly qualifying or obfuscating the point. It makes my stomach hurt to think about it, but it's pretty clearly the only thing I can do. I'm going to talk to one of my supervisors during my next shift, then email him hopefully with some confidence that they'll be backing me up if any shit comes my way at work. And I guess I'll just steel myself for that :/ ugh. Well, count on Pharyngula to tell you what you didn't really want to but needed to hear, right? :)

Posted by: Classical Cipher | July 30, 2010 3:24 AM

Now that I've been thinking about it, I realize my store's been around for a while, and this situation is far from unique. Probably they're somewhat used to this kind of thing and will be understanding. I will just give them the information as a heads-up.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 30, 2010 4:36 AM

Had a "new atheist" moment today...

I was standing at the bus interchange waiting for my bus home, when a man approached me with a leaflet and asked me if I was interested in going to his church. I said "No thank you". He then asked if what I was reading on was one of those new apple things, and I answered him that it's not the same thing - it's an eReader and was like electronic paper.

New Atheists just can't help being shrill and militant in the face of religious belief!

Posted by: John Morales | July 30, 2010 4:59 AM

Kel, you're never gonna be promoted up the ranks with such feeble militancy. ;)

--

("This is no apple — it's the fruit of the tree of knowledge")

Posted by: windy | July 30, 2010 6:03 AM

"How to Dismantle 23,000 Atom Bombs"

A skeptical response to the film discussed in that article:
Fake Disarmament, War Propaganda: Countdown to Zero (2010)

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 30, 2010 7:33 AM

Video of the an entire first year MIT physics course available online:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmJV8CHIqFc

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 30, 2010 7:50 AM

Happy Friday (kinda) Pharyngulites.

Still coming down from my depression, but at least work is going...

Well no, I'm pissed off at work, too. I'm ready to transfer. Soon as I see, "Transfer opportunity for:" I'm going - I don't care what unit they transfer me to, I just want out of where I am now.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 30, 2010 8:02 AM

@John Morales:

Thanks.

Posted by: John Morales | July 30, 2010 8:21 AM

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgh!

Science literacy at risk of extinction.

Did humans live at the same time as dinosaurs?

The answer is of course no, but about a third of Australians got it wrong in a recent survey.

[...]

"We asked six basic questions in a survey of 1,500 people and only 3 per cent or 4 per cent of them got them all correct," she said.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 30, 2010 8:30 AM

The answer is of course no, but about a third of Australians got it wrong in a recent survey.

And this is confounding, since by all appearances they are a nation of idiots

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 30, 2010 8:34 AM

@John Morales:

What a dumb question, of course we've lived with dinosaurs!

Haven't you read Jurassic Park or Dinotopia, or seen the Land of the Lost?

Those are documentaries, right?

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 30, 2010 8:58 AM

I sometimes confuse The Flintstones with history as well.

Posted by: JeffreyD | July 30, 2010 9:13 AM

Kevin - are you sure you are getting enough bacon?

Seriously now, I read your latest blog entry and I echo Walton, i.e., I have no understanding of the issue at all, but if you need to talk, you know how to find me.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 30, 2010 9:18 AM

Pharyngula in nutshell.

Posted by: Miki Z | July 30, 2010 9:39 AM

Kevin - You're never too old to be yourself.

(At the risk of sounding judgmental, I think you can reach the point where you're too old not to.)

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 30, 2010 9:55 AM

I'm hoping to catch at least Saturday at Skepticon; after all, it's right here in Springfield, FCOL! If the knees will it....

I think damning humanity because Adam and Eve ate some fruit was bit of an overreaction.

Especially since (what with Big being officially omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent) it was clearly a put-up job from the very start. I mean, really! Program in the curiousity and tendancy to disobedience, then put the Forbidden item right where they can get it? And fail to install big, obvious surveillance cameras? Sadistic s.o.b. had it planned from the git-go!

Kevin: *hug*. Been there, done that, burned the tee shirt.

Did humans live at the same time as dinosaurs?

Is that a trick question? I can see a line of birds on the power line from here. Or are birds no longer considered a subdivision of dinosaurs?

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 30, 2010 10:08 AM

If birds are the descendants of dinosaurs one could claim that dinosaurs and humans are living at the same time, in a twisted sort of way.

There's no real "if" about it, and nothing twisted at all. It is a true statement that humans are living with dinosaurs today.

'Non-avian dinosaurs' is another story.

Posted by: Miki Z | July 30, 2010 10:09 AM

Hmm. Perhaps a control poll is needed. "Does a bear shit in the woods?" The number of people who answer no (Polar Bears, hello!) should be an effective gauge.

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | July 30, 2010 10:13 AM

The infallible Wiki implies that most paleontologists consider birds as an extant group of dinosaurs, and refer to their extinct (and more reptilian) ancestors with the term Sven used above: "non-avian dinosaurs".

Which reminds me, I need to get the dino scat off my car.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | July 30, 2010 10:55 AM

China Miéville will be answering questions about his novel The City And The City tonight at 11:00 PM (Pacific).

Posted by: heatherly | July 30, 2010 11:36 AM

Angel Kaida: I have to echo the comments everyone here has made, and Caine's response is excellent. Talk to your boss, document everything (save messages and emails), and take care of yourself. That behavior sets off all of my red flags, personal and professional. It screams abusive personality. Good luck. State laws vary a bit (Are you US?), but I can talk you through the basic legal options you have, and I still have a book of all the legal options for each state from my last job.

Jadehawk: I'm doing a bit better than that since I'm not in school, but I still qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit every year. Even when working for the state. Of course, that's also due to the mandatory furloughs and 10% pay cut we were under for the past three years...

New job is actually a $2000 pay cut...but quality of life means so much more than quantity of money.

IF GOD IS YOUR COPILOT SWITCH SEATS

...

Yeah, got nothing.

Every time I see pelicans at the beach I'm reminded of that last scene in Jurassic Park. They're so beautiful.

I really can't be surprised about that poll though; similar polls have been done in the US and the results are depressing. Actually, what's even worse is this story I have from one of my clients, from when she was 17, when she asked me if space was real.

Posted by: heatherly | July 30, 2010 11:43 AM

raven: Yes, you are correct that places of employment often will not know how to respond to these situations, and will often blame the victim.

However, that does NOT happen in every case, and sometimes the employer can be a support and ally. There are also laws in some states (again, my experience is US) that MANDATE places of employment support their employees.

And if the employer is good people, they can be both an ally and a friend--I had a client whose boss not only accompanied her to every court hearing to face her abusive ex-boyfriend, he also paid for half the legal costs (which were minor, since we could cover most of them), held a training at the job for all employees on stalking and abuse, and added extra security to the building. He definitely went above and beyond expected responses, and not everyone will be like that--but some are. And it's worth trying.

The supervisor can call the police. They can say that a customer is harassing one of their employees, they can add additional security measures (even minor ones, such as asking co-workers to walk each other to their cars, and just being more aware), and they can inform the customer that their behavior is not acceptable.

Yes, it is good if Angel is able to be assertive and confident with handling the situation, but that doesn't mean she can't ask for help.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 30, 2010 11:45 AM

Causation and correlation error?

Doubtful. People you work with don't want to see or know about your problems. If you have problems you are perceived as a less efficient employee. There's a lot going on there.

However, malingering and not making a purchase is a nuisance and most managers (I would have too) would be happy to treat the non-customer much as they would suspected shoplifters.

Posted by: raven | July 30, 2010 12:01 PM

I may jsut have been extremely lucky - but if you have issues which are impacting work, and bring them to a supervisor, this categorically should not count against you.

Should and won't are two entirely separate things. Life isn't rational or fair. Supervisors are just people and are often just as socially awkward and clueless as the rest of us.

And if you go to a supervisor, you have to have some sort of plan. Just saying here is a problem, fix doesn't look too smart or work too well. So, again, what does Angel expect the supervisor to do? Yell at the guy, call the police, club him?

She may have to as a last resort but it should be a last resort. And at that point, the guy isn't a nuisance, he is a stalker and a restraining order is on the horizon.

The guy can't read her mind. If she has no interest she has to tell him clearly and politely at first and clearly and forcefully later. Normal people will get the message. If nothing else, mentioning the words "restraining order" usually works wonders.

If your employer is likely to hold it against you then frankly they're a crappy employer...

What century are you posting from? These days there are huge numbers of crappy employers. That is modern American life. With high unemployment and a tough economy, it just seems to get worse every year. Employees are fungible these days, replaceable plug in modules.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 30, 2010 12:04 PM

Well, at least one good thing about today.

Finished the first batch of edits. My next chapter is completely going to be re-written.

Oh - and there's a nod to the Pharyngula forums here in my last chapter, notably in my main character's reaction to seeing a horse for the first time in his life (he's a three-foot tall dog-like humanoid critter and has lived in the forest his entire life.)

Posted by: Bernard Bumner | July 30, 2010 12:08 PM

And if you go to a supervisor, you have to have some sort of plan. Just saying here is a problem, fix doesn't look too smart or work too well.

But also, don't minimise the problem. If there are reasonable steps that your supervisor can take to help you (even if it is just to record your concerns), then you need to make those clear. It is a real problem, therefore it needs to be taken seriously.

Set out your expectations of what they need to do, and give reasons that they need to do it.

Posted by: Ewan R | July 30, 2010 12:27 PM

What century are you posting from? These days there are huge numbers of crappy employers. That is modern American life. With high unemployment and a tough economy, it just seems to get worse every year. Employees are fungible these days, replaceable plug in modules.

Just because there are huge numbers of crappy employers doesn't mean you should just accept this and work for a crappy employer because it's the norm. I'm not advocating downing tools and refusing to work until you get a job at somewhere you'll be treated as a human, I'm advocating trying to find a job at somewhere you'll be treated as a human. Such places exist. Sure you may end up getting laid off because of the economy anywhere - but you categorically shouldn't end up getting laid off because you have resolvable personal issues which may require the assistance of a supervisor (or an HR professional) - I've worked 3 jobs in the US, two of them I'd be completely comfortable going to my supervisor with any issue that I thought may impact my work - both of these were corporate based (one a vague step up from minimum wage, the other working for the most evil company in the world after BP(tm)) the other I wouldn't have gone to my supervisor not for fear of losing my job, but because he was a clueless pushover who was about as likely to take action on any complaint as he was to spontaneously break into a musical medley of Gilbert and Sullivan songs while spinning plates - it was this inaction combined with the issues he wouldnt act on that led me on a 4 month job search which culminated in getting the current job which is seven shades of awesome and in which I am secure in taking any and all problems to management and seeing some resolution in a reasonable timeframe with no judgement for doing so.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 30, 2010 12:40 PM

I don't understand the purpose of IPOAPD.

What sort of pedant isn't walking around in a state of boiling over rage, a mere poke away from erupting like a Volcano, spewing out flaming obsenities at random passerby? It takes all the sport out. What's next? International Shoot Fish In A Barrel Day?

Oh, also, make sure to piss off non-Grammar PEdants if you insist. On a personal level I think the melt downs of history nerds are the best.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 30, 2010 12:54 PM

Ah, thanks. I just left a flurry of comments. The funniest part is that the title is so wrong – even in the comments, almost none of the examples are about grammar, it's all just etymology and the spelling of homophones!

Funny. When Ben Stein complains that Evolution does not explain gravity, he's an idiot. When an eminent™ biologist cannot tell grammar from semantics and phonology, people cheer him on.

Well, as DJ Grothe sez, everyone gets one subject on which they can be nutcases. His is transhumanism. I guess Jerry Coyne's is pointless peevery over the nature of language. I wonder what Geoff Pullum's is, though. Aside from the desire to juggle seafood, he seems reasonable enough, and even that is hardly harmful (if you're not a lobster).

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | July 30, 2010 1:09 PM

Dear Abbey mode
Angel Kaida - You've already been given all the good advice, all I can add is that you must not ever allow yourself to feel guilty about what you have to do to straighten out your (so far) low-level stalker and to protect yourself. I may be wrong, but reading your posts you seem to feel bad about possibly hurting his feelings. Stalkers exploit people's good nature. None of this is your fault and you shouldn't have been put in this situation. Do what you have to and then don't ever even think something like "maybe I could have handled it better".