Pharyngula

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 30, 2010 7:19 PM

Don't nautiluses have W-shaped eyes?

(Bloody arboreal land-octopusses.)

Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkIPKthVPyGXfsOwAFEWmfclKPpSZHj-80 | July 30, 2010 7:30 PM

Bioluminence?

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 30, 2010 7:44 PM

Birger Johansson, are you aware that the fine fellow who does Irregular Webcomic also does Darths and Droids? It's the Star Wars series, starting with Episode I (No! Wait! Don't run away!), done as if it were an RPG campaign. And in this campaign, Jar Jar is awesome. Trust me!

Posted by: Adamvs Maximvs | July 30, 2010 7:48 PM

That was nice, but I think it should have ended with a bad-ass cuttlefish using it's cruel tongue to pull a Scorpion ("GET OVER HERE!") on the Octopus and eat her.

Or have a note "Their love culminated and the Octopus left the Nautilus forever, found a cave, laid her precious eggs and dropped dead shortly after"

These are cephalopods after all
(oh and I realize they couldn't mate.... unless Nautilus + Octopus = the mule of the ocean world!.... wait actually, that probably won't happen)

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 30, 2010 8:04 PM

As members of wholly different subclasses, the pairing would be less akin to hore x donkey thant to horse x echidna.

Posted by: maglione.k | July 30, 2010 8:11 PM

@Sili, no, they have lenseless pinhole eyes. But, my thought was more along the lines of: don't octopuses eat nautiloids?

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 30, 2010 8:24 PM

I think the Friday Cephalopod is cuter.

Me, three. :)

Posted by: Pastor Farm | July 30, 2010 8:29 PM

#12.

There is no way on God's green earth (or even our blue one) that the Tea Party can beat Anonymous. They have fed the mightiest troll of all.

This is a time for popcorn and bacon.

Posted by: Guillotine | July 30, 2010 8:41 PM

@12: Uh-oh, the consequences will never be the same. I'll have to set up a lawn chair on the WA side of the Columbia River and watch the lulz ensue.

Posted by: 11zxcvb11 | July 30, 2010 9:00 PM

Probably some of you have seen this already but I've just stumbled onto it and felt I should share it with you:
octopuses-octopi

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 30, 2010 9:21 PM

Friggin' creationists (and a AGW denialist) are out in force over at Derek Lowe's place again. Not surprisingly on a thread about Venter. My looooooong ejaculation of venom got caught in moderation, and my attempt to ask for its release has met with an annoying error message.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | July 30, 2010 9:39 PM

Evening! I need more rum!

Posted by: GarfieldMinusGarfield | July 30, 2010 10:04 PM

I guess the open thread is a good place to post this: I have a friend I've known for several years who WAS atheist. He recently told me that he's going to church. He's been going to Narcotics Anonymous, and you know one of the steps is believing in a higher power.

I didn't know quite what to say when he told me this. I didn't want to disturb his progress.

What are your thoughts?

Posted by: Weed Monkey | July 30, 2010 10:15 PM

Sili, actually it's cuttlefish you must be thinking about. :p

Just one more guess and you would have got it right!

Posted by: crowepps | July 30, 2010 10:27 PM

If N.A. is inspiring him to go to church AND their program is helping him keep off drugs, I would avoid discussion of or be totally neutral about 'faith' in talking with him. I wouldn't want to take a chance of disturbing a possibly shaky equilibrium in any way at all.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 30, 2010 10:43 PM

Thanks, Weed Monkey.

Googling is for sissies.

Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi | July 30, 2010 10:57 PM

Seeing as they're different types of critter I had this dread that they were going to try to eat each-other instead. Can my Cthulhu plushie join in the soap opera in the part normally played by Calculon?

Man, Air Supply? Stewie will be having palpitations.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | July 30, 2010 11:09 PM

Some people are helped by 12 Step Programs and others are not. Every time I think about them I'm reminded of a discussion between Sam Vimes and Carrot in Pratchett's Feet of Clay:

But you've been very good, sir," said Carrot. "I've not seen you touch a drop for--"

"Oh, that," said Vimes. "I was talking about policing, not alcohol. There's lots of people will help you with the alcohol business, but there's no one out there arranging little meetings where you can stand up and say, 'My name is Sam and I'm a really suspicious bastard.'"

Posted by: Rorschach | July 30, 2010 11:28 PM

@ 36,

agree.I don't know enough of those programs to tell whether this always happens tho.As someone said before, seems like swapping one mind-fucking addiction for another.

The other thing is, the correlations that those studies I linked to seem to indicate, don't mean there is causation here.Could just be that being part of some social group once a week is good for you, or any other reason.

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy | July 30, 2010 11:56 PM

"Oh. My.Teapot."

It's like they just can't stop shooting themselves in the foot.

And yet still they shamble along.

Posted by: Robbie | July 31, 2010 12:25 AM

I'm betting the offspring will be lime green. Loved the video. Thanks.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 12:57 AM

Saw a couple of kangaroos today.

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | July 31, 2010 1:03 AM

solution for suddenly being swamped with more spinach you think you can possibly eat? turn it into creamed spinach. it's amazing how the stuff shrinks from that, hehe.

too bad that solution didn't occur to me earlier, because quite a bit of the spinach in our garden went to seed because the boyfriend wasn't able to eat all of it by himself in its raw form (not that much of a salad person)

also, I wish cooking wine came in small bottle sets, because I just can't drink a whole bottle of wine every time I make french onion soup (well, i could, but i don't actually like getting drunk by myself, and wine isn't my favorite anyway)

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 1:04 AM

Yeah, I see many more roadkill roos than I do see living ones. But still I was in the centre of Tuggeranong today and there were a couple in the long grass. Unfortunately all I had on me was my camera phone which is a piece of shit.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 31, 2010 1:09 AM

18 hour day today.

ouch.

thank the cosmic muffin i bought a bottle of whisky yesterday so i can have a small drink before I pass the hell out.

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | July 31, 2010 1:10 AM

Jadehawk,

I wish cooking wine came in small bottle sets, because I just can't drink a whole bottle of wine every time I make french onion soup

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 31, 2010 1:18 AM

cook with what you would drink.

one, the food will be better

two, you can drink whatever you don't use.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | July 31, 2010 1:25 AM

Katrina, are you game to kill another great, huge chunk of time?

DM of the Rings.

:D

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | July 31, 2010 1:32 AM

Rev BDC #53

cook with what you would drink.

Seconded. When my parents were teaching my brothers and me to cook, they emphasized you should never cook with a wine you wouldn't be willing to drink.

I keep a bottle each of red plonk, white plonk, dry sherry and madeira in the pantry for cooking. If you uncork the bottle, pour whatever you need into a measuring cup, and immediately recork the bottle the wine will remain usable for a couple of weeks. The madeira and sherry will be good almost indefinitely.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 1:40 AM

I always like cooking with wine because it means there's the rest of the bottle to drink.

Posted by: otrame | July 31, 2010 2:11 AM

Sigh. Another treading on eggshells conversation in a Doctor's waiting room concerning the age of the earth. Sweet little grandma. (I'm a grandma too, but I am not sweet) But though I am staunchly anti-accommodationist in public forums I don't feel the need to lecture well-meaning but woefully ignorant people on just how stupid they are being. I'm thinking of having Cafe Press create a t-shirt that says "The earth is 4.5 billion years old. Get over it, bitches." Then maybe I wouldn't be stuck trying to explain how a nice kind woman such as myself could be so deluded by the obvious lies of evolution.

Posted by: pineapplezippers | July 31, 2010 2:20 AM

Crazy. It's only very recently that I realized evolution/the age of the earth is "controversial." A few days ago, I had to bite my tongue when a co-worker I'd always thought was pretty intelligent mentioned something like " almost makes me believe evolution is real." My mouth hung open for a second and I just said, "Yeah, it's real." Which she followed pseudo-jokingly with "Well, Darwin recanted on his deathbed." And then I'm pretty sure I had a minor stroke. The worst part? She is a science-related (medical) major. I am an English major.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 31, 2010 2:28 AM

Pineapplezippers:

Which she followed pseudo-jokingly with "Well, Darwin recanted on his deathbed."

FFS. You might want to seriously get her off that idiotic notion, permanently. The Lady Hope Story is bullshit, same old lying for Jesus.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 2:33 AM

Which she followed pseudo-jokingly with "Well, Darwin recanted on his deathbed."

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 31, 2010 2:48 AM

Kel:

I'm always shocked when I hear this, not because it's a lie but because it's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to a skeptic; it's irrelevant to anyone who is capable of thinking something through. It is not irrelevant to someone who has a god lingering in their brain; they'll never be able to understand it is actually irrelevant and they'll never be able to get totally past the idea that Darwin decided to tremble before god at the last.

It's like a scratch on a record; their brain can't go forward from that point.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 2:50 AM

What is disturbing about the line of questioning is not that they hold the myth (after all, I've heard educated people who support evolutionary theory repeat that) but that it highlights a lack of understanding of what science is.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | July 31, 2010 2:58 AM

Kel,

I'm always shocked when I hear this, not because it's a lie but because it's irrelevant.

Relevance is always a hard concept for creationist to grasp. You know how they put forth the argument that evolution inspired Hitler? Even if it were true (which it isn't), it's irrelevent because it doesn't actually prove evolution wrong. Yet, go to any creationist seminar and that's the first thing they spout. Nothing about science there.

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | July 31, 2010 3:59 AM

I always put wine in my bolognaise sauce - I tend to buy cleanskins ($4 a bottle of 'dry red') for that purpose, but it's by no means rotgut so I tend to have a glass while it's simmering away.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 4:49 AM

Though currently I'm drinking a Chilean Chardonnay. Cost $9, and tastes just fine. It's not quite as fruity as an Australian Chardonnay but it has a nice oaky flavour to it.

Posted by: GravityIsJustATheory | July 31, 2010 7:46 AM

By the way, I found a poleyou might be interested in. It's a bit old, but it appears to still be active:

Posted by: llewelly | July 31, 2010 8:14 AM

Rorschach | July 31, 2010 5:57 AM:

I'm a total genetic retard wrt smell and taste.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 31, 2010 9:05 AM

Oh are we talking about alcohol in food?

Here's a damn easy Guinness bread¹

3 cups white flour
1 cup whole wheat flour
2 tablespoons baking powder
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup sugar
1 can (14.9 oz) Guinness²
2 eggs, slightly beaten

Sift the dry ingredients together. Add the Guinness and eggs, stirring well to get the flour lumps out. Pour into a greased nine-by-five-by-three-inch loaf pan and bake at 375 degrees for about 70 minutes (I put foil over the top about halfway through).

It's a little bit sweet, it's hardy, and goes well with thick stews or hearty soups.

¹It's a "batter" bread for those (like me) who are a little bit scared of baking. Bonus: It's quick!

² I haven't yet tried this with other beers-- I'm guessing that any stout/black & tan/dark brew will work.

Posted by: Q.E.D | July 31, 2010 10:39 AM

If you uncork the bottle, pour whatever you need into a measuring cup, and immediately recork the bottle the wine will remain usable for a couple of weeks.

no,no,no,no,no,no noooooooo! Sacrebleu and sacrilege. Red wine certainly does not keep a "couple of weeks", because it oxydizes and changes the taste for the worse quite quickly, even re-corked. Red goes off much more quickly than white.

[/Opinion masquerading as Argument from Authority] As a Frenchman, I tell you that the proper procedure is to drink the rest of the bottle as an aperitif while you cook.

[/end oenophile French pretension]

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | July 31, 2010 10:57 AM

Jules (IIRC):

Took some Titan IPA to Family Pizza Night. It was quite the hit (although, due to intervention of the F.I.L. it was actually Family Pei Wei night. I do like their kung pao and their coconut curry). As it turns out, I was incorrect in saying previously that I had tried it. There is another beer in a somewhat similar looking six-pack (Longhammer IPA, I think) that I must have been thinking of.

Titan has a specific kind of strong hoppiness indicative of a large amount of bittering hops added early in the boil that I used to shoot for back when I did a lot of brewing. Leaves the mouth with a somewhat thirsty aftertaste that's not quite metallic (metallic for me is bad; not-quite metallic OTOH is good).

On cooking with alcohol: I often deglaze with beer, but we always have sherry and there is often white wine open, which I never actually drink. I sometimes formulate a glaze based on whisky (blended, not single-malt). But at any rate it's pointless for me to make some kind of excuse along the lines of "so you can drink the rest as you cook" or anything like that. Once the knifework is over, the pop is topped and the hops are sopped! When I'm cooking for pleasure, pleasure is why I'm cooking. (When I'm cooking for sustenance I just make big vats of servicable, yet tasty, glop).

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 31, 2010 11:14 AM

Wish I'd found this when PZ was going on (and on) about his sexy/manly beard. Brigham Young University frowns on beards, but does provide a process for appeal. Jesus Christ might want to make sure his paperwork and "beard exception" approval is complete before he comes back to reign for a thousand years.

A student who wishes to obtain a beard exception must visit a BYU Student Health Center doctor by appointment (422.5156). The doctor will fax his recommendation. The student then needs to come to the Honor Code Office to fill out some paperwork and receive the letter allowing the growth of the beard, if approved. If a yearly beard exception is granted, a new Student ID will be issued after the beard has been fully grown, and must be renewed every year by repeating the process.
     If a request is granted for a temporary or more permanent beard exception the student will be notified by the Honor Code Office; at which time the student will come into the office to complete the necessary paperwork. After completion of this process the student may then grow a full beard according the guidelines given.

Posted by: heatherly | July 31, 2010 11:17 AM

ODS: I keep hearing from everyone that Inceptions is brilliant--is it particularly violent? Or--violent like comic-book style violence or realistic violence?

I really would like to see it, but I'm not in the mind space for a lot of violence at the moment...

Posted by: Dania | July 31, 2010 11:43 AM

Some of my relatives have vineyards and make good red wine (for home consumption) so I don't ever have to buy any. Of course I probably wouldn't buy it anyway because I don't really like to drink red wine, but it's nice because when I need wine for cooking all I have to do is ask. And it's free! :)

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 31, 2010 11:57 AM

In response to the news about LDS members being tracked via GPS (@94), an ex-mormon posted this:

We moved 900 miles away and the church found us within a week... My wife had sent in her resignation. The freaking cult found us in our new city and sent her Dodge letter here. [Dodge is the name of the mormon dude in charge of replying to resignation requests. He has recently had to hire additional staff.] Really freaky. I have commented before that the cult mails you something before your first water, power, trash or whatever bill. It happened again. Their information services are frightening...

Posted by: Dania | July 31, 2010 12:35 PM

Katrina, vineyards are great for another reason: they attract pretty birds. :)

Linnets come to mind. Last year I found a linnet nest in my grandfather's vineyard.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 31, 2010 1:37 PM

Heatherly:

ODS: I keep hearing from everyone that Inceptions is brilliant--is it particularly violent? Or--violent like comic-book style violence or realistic violence?

I might not be the best person to ask-- I've got a high tolerance for violence in movies.

That being said: it is PG-13 and while there are some (AWESOME) fight scenes and some people getting shot, there's no blood flying around or any focus on the injuries. It's pretty tame.

I'd say it's about the same level of violence as Batman Begins or The Dark Knight-- it's there, but not a focus of the film.

Plus, holy shit Tom Hardy, who not only is nice to look at, but manages to out act everyone else in the film.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 31, 2010 1:47 PM

Katrina:

Target has decent box wine as well: The Cube, I think it's called. Too bad I'm not shopping at Target any more.

Yeah... our Targets don't sell alcohol at all and even if they did, under NY state law, they couldn't sell wine. You can buy beer in grocery stores, but any sort of wine or liquor can only be sold in liquor stores, but you can't buy beer in said stores. It's all kinds of fucked up like that.

Side note: My bff (who lives in MA) called me to tell me that his local Rite Aid now has a liquor and wine aisle. I was shocked and jealous.

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | July 31, 2010 2:06 PM

ODS:

You can buy beer in grocery stores, but any sort of wine or liquor can only be sold in liquor stores, but you can't buy beer in said stores. It's all kinds of fucked up like that.

Here in Washington, grocery stores can sell stuff that's below a certain percentage, which allows for beer, wine, cider, and some of those other "trendy" things like hard lemonade. Everything else is sold at the state-owned liquor stores.

There's a petition drive underway here to get this changed in the next election. If it passes, then we'll be more like Arizona, with special areas in grocery stores for liquor.

Posted by: CanadianChick | July 31, 2010 2:12 PM

Leftover wine? There's a good article in the Washington Post on using leftover wine. I have frozen it with some success - it doesn't freeze solidly, but it does slow down the speed at which it goes "off"

I'm not a red wine drinker at all, so when I was single, there was usually a container of wine in the freezer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032400761.html

Posted by: Chgo_Liz | July 31, 2010 2:24 PM

Jules @ #100:

Call to all knitters: One of my best friends is having her first baby in March. It's a tradition for me to knit/crochet for all the babies that my friends have. However, these jerks (kidding...sort of*) don't want to find out the baby's sex. Currently, I'm knitting some toys (DINOSAURS!), but I'd love some suggestions/patterns for other fun baby things that are gender neutral.

Just don't use the obvious baby blue or baby pink. Babies are babies. A blanket, sweater, hat, stuffed animal or knitted blocks/balls are all great ideas. A mobile would be awesome.

Remember that you can't use buttons, etc. Nothing that could fall off and get in baby's throat.

Red, white and black is the best color combination for a newborn. After that, strong primary colors. Pastels are for the adults, not the babies.

I'm baffled that you would think not knowing the baby's sex is an obstacle.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 31, 2010 2:42 PM

Jules:
Working on my third cup of coffee. I'm waaaaaaay behind.

Anyway, I haven't had Yuengling in a long-assed time and I'm glad that it's available outside of the northeast. It's the only "cheap" beer that I'll drink. The rest are all about as appealing as used bathwater.

But I can afford to be a beer snob, since my brother-in-law is a craft-beer distributor. I haven't actually purchased beer in years-- he usually just shows up at my apt with fun brews to try.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 31, 2010 3:13 PM

It's much harder to find in Oklahoma, whose liquor laws are far more strict

...than any reasonable person could possibly devise. (I did 6 years in Stillwater.)

Yuengling is pretty well distributed in the East these days; at least the lager, light and b/t are available in every Long Island grocery store. I used to live in Eastern PA where it was basically the local brew, and there you could also get their Lord Chesterfield Ale, which is no big deal in the hops dept. but nicely bitter, cheaper than anything remotely comparable, and comes in the green bottle to boot. They sell a Porter as well, again good-to-very-good but relatively cheeeeep..

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 31, 2010 3:24 PM

I'm taking bets on when the "sure, sexual assault is bad, but little boys are being circumcised right this very second!" brigade is going to show up on the "Implicit Consent" thread. Any takers?

Fuck, I had things to do today.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 31, 2010 4:01 PM

ODS:

Yuengling is available here in Florida.

And I'm staying the hell away from the 'implicit consent' thread. It's just a shouting match at this point; nobody's listening to anything. (I'm not even going to try to express my view on the subject there, because I know my words will be twisted to make me look like both a rabid feminist and an evil pervert.)

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 31, 2010 4:05 PM

(My opinion: Verdict was right, but for very, very, very, very wrong reasons, and the jury foreman needs to have his meat and two introduced to a pencil sharpener. Does that count as an "oh noes circumcision" comment?)

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 31, 2010 4:07 PM

ODS: We have differing opinions of what "rabid feminist" means, then. Working for equal treatment for all people isn't rabid feminism. Endorsing the subjugation of men is rabid feminism (and is, thankfully, very rare, outside of "A Room Of Our Own").

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | July 31, 2010 4:20 PM

BG:
The fact of the matter is that any feminist gets slapped with labels like "rabid" all the time. There are far too many people out there who are threatened by simple concepts of equal rights and demonize feminists/gay rights supporters/immigrant's rights activists/etc.

I'm not mad 'cos I know what you meant and I know that you were mocking the right wing view.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 31, 2010 4:25 PM

crowepps
For baby lacy stuff, I usually just include picot edgings and a little bit of eyelet, and I rarely do entire pieces in crochet for the precise reason that the stitches are too holey. I usually knit lace. The advice to knit 3s is great. I'd never thought of that before.

I'm a sucker for animal stuff too. There's a great pattern for booties that are little webbed feet. I really want to make them, but they are pretty ridiculous(ly adorable).

Re: Implied Consent Thread
Hulk ANGRY!

/rabid feminist

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 31, 2010 4:36 PM

Were you connected to the university...?

Oh fucking hell yes. My first real faculty job. Offer came at a time when I could not refuse.

Quite the anthropological expedition. Someday they'll say of me, "well, but he wrote lucidly on North Central Oklahoma."

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | July 31, 2010 4:44 PM

ODS:

Oh the "Implicit Consent" thread is INFURIATING! I'm off to do more productive things with my time. Have a good day, all!

Yeah, waaaay too many idiots over yonder. I'm not feeling the shark tank vibe today anyway, so I'm going to mellow out and spend time with the Mister.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 31, 2010 4:57 PM

Oh crap. Feminism thread. Time to de-link my blog again.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 31, 2010 5:41 PM

I need a good cry, and to play some World of Tanks. Because in World of Tanks, I only rarely have to put up with any osrt of gender bullshit, because everyone's a tank!

Posted by: crowepps | July 31, 2010 5:49 PM

There's a great pattern for booties that are little webbed feet. I really want to make them, but they are pretty ridiculous(ly adorable).

implied consent thread

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | July 31, 2010 5:54 PM

Oh and I had a really good wine last night. Hmmmm what was it called. I think it was a Barolo. Was wonderful. I ought to go grab the label so I remember what I bought.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 31, 2010 6:00 PM

The Implicit Consent thread has reminded me of our newest hometown hero:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXvZeJSUDPM

Proud to be an Alabaman

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | July 31, 2010 6:10 PM

Reliving my sexual assault to argue against rape-defending open woman-haters.

Definitely how I wanted to spend my Saturday.

Yup, just like it was yesterday, hearts even pounding fast. Eh, could be worse, I could have went through what my partner did. I see why she doesn't tend to do internet forums.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | July 31, 2010 6:15 PM

*Hugs Cerberus*

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | July 31, 2010 6:22 PM

Cerberus
Sorry it gives you grief to deal with that crap, but I must admit that I breathed a sigh of relief when you showed up over there. Thank you for doing it.

Posted by: PookDo | July 31, 2010 6:27 PM

Hey everyone.I have two questions for you all.I admit I don't read all posts or comments on here but what's the longest an endless thread usually goes and question two outside of Richard Feynman does anyone know any other physics books or authors with more of a visual approach?

Posted by: David Marjanović | July 31, 2010 6:31 PM

Test with Lithuanian: ė i

what's the longest an endless thread usually goes

The endless thread is endless and started in February 2009.

Do you mean how long a subthread is? PZ stops them when they become too long; that used to mean 1000 comments till a few months ago when PZ lowered the limit to 666. (Of course, PZ is always late, so the limit is always surpassed, even if sometimes not by much.)

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | July 31, 2010 6:33 PM

I tried to compare my past expenses to those your boyfriend had. By definition, a squatter doesn't pay rent...

also, from my experience, many students (especially european students) are subsidized in ways a regular person isn't, so student living cost are virtually incomparable with non-student living costs, squatter or no.

If your boyfriend can't help you, what's wrong with not putting any wine into the onion soup? I love it that way. I don't see why it needs any additives, or why any additives would be an improvement.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | July 31, 2010 6:33 PM

Brigham Young University frowns on beards, but does provide a process for appeal.

WTF?

Posted by: crowepps | July 31, 2010 6:42 PM

You are doing good work on the Consent thread. Just thought I'd let you know.

Posted by: blf | July 31, 2010 6:53 PM

wine in onion soup is not an "additive", it's an "ingredient"

The onions are the additives. ;-)

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | July 31, 2010 7:24 PM

This is really getting hard to continue with. I had to make myself a cup of chamomile to calm down.

And I just wrote off Sven, fuck that sexist insensitive asshole.

Anyone who can write what he did after what I wrote about what happened to me can go fuck himself into a deep dark pit of my everlasting hate.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | July 31, 2010 7:29 PM

And thanks for the kind words people and sorry that I seem to be such a mess.

A lot of people have been going above and board on that thread and deserve really strong props.

For everyone on the right side of the debate on that thread, give yourself a cookie, you deserve it.

Furthermore, I submit it as proof that it doesn't matter what crime against women is depicted, some man will defend it, try and minimize it, make the discussion all about himself, or otherwise try and run interference and dismiss genuine rage at injustices.

And the amount of sexist blowback is actually worse the worse the initial offense is that's being defended.

Something to be neatly brought up the next time someone comes on in the objectification threads and goes "gosh, I would totally support you if you tout suite were arguing about something more important". They actually swarm out more against when it is serious, when the crime is actually heinous.

In short, they are lying bastards.

I think I'll remind them of that the next time they keep trying this shit.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | July 31, 2010 7:41 PM

Well it is now August (at least in Australia) so it's time again for the OM.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 31, 2010 7:44 PM

C:

Anyone who can write what he did

Which part, where I opined that one sorority girl pulling another's shirt off was not quite the same thing as rape? Because I think that's the only thing I directed at you.
If I wasn't so insensitive to your feelings would their equivalence be clear to me? Because I still think that empirically they're really pretty different.

It's nothing personal, and if you can't help taking everyfreakinthing so personally, then maybe you could try not spilling all your feelings all over the internet all the time. Just an idea.

But, hell, write me off; it bothers me, but only a little bit. Truth be told, I stopped taking you seriously after you proved, in some IQ-statistics thread, that not having the slightest idea what you were talking about didn't stop you from arguing all passionately about it anyway.

*shrug* I take people as they come to me and of course you're free to do the same.

Posted by: John Morales | July 31, 2010 7:47 PM

I knew Cerberus deserved an OM after her first few posts.

(But then, I think Sven deserved his too.
Still does.)

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | July 31, 2010 7:57 PM

And it might just be my mood, but I'm really tired of men who know less than me on a subject rolling their eyes and condescending to me and putting on airs that they are the skeptical or deep-thinking one because they continue to put out uninformed horse-shit in a snobbish attitude.

If you value being smart, try learning. I know I don't know everything about feminism or women's history or a billion other subjects. It's why I will go to my grave striving for more and more knowledge.

Ugh, so insanely pissed off and fucked up right now.

Posted by: Birger Johansson | July 31, 2010 8:04 PM

Cicely @ 5 Darts and Droids: http://www.darthsanddroids.net/archive.html
Episode 415:
"How about a trebuchet?"
"-You have laser cannons"
LOL ! :)

Cicely @ 12 "Teapot"
I finished reading Charles Stross' "The Fuller memorandum" this week. An important backstory was a White Russian general ca. 1920-21. He had a flunky called "teapot" who walked with him everywhere and strangled people the general wanted dead. Teapot later got possessed by an extra-dimensional thingie (think tentacles, and a habit of eating souls, Lovecraft-style) when he opened up the wrong ancient scroll while looting an oriental city.
I take this coincidence as a sign that the Tea Party are cultists in liege with the Elder Gods.

Regarding "Implicit consent" and sleazebags: We have too few organ donors. We have too many sexual predators, and their apologists. Let Stieg Larsson's "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" transform the latter category into the former.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | July 31, 2010 8:13 PM

Women mathematicians get their own conference in India:

An International Conference of Women Mathematicians (ICWM 2010) is being organized on the sidelines of the International Congress of Mathematicians (ICM 2010). It will take place from August 17 to 18, 2010, at the University of Hyderabad in Hyderabad, India.
     In the earlier ICM's there have always been women mathematicians and women speakers, panel discussions on women in mathematics, their achievements, and the problems they face in the profession. However, this year marks the first time that a separate conference is being held with a focus on women in mathematics....
      An international scientific committee with Professor Ulrike Tillmann (Oxford University, UK) as the chair was entrusted with the task of drawing up the scientific schedule of the conference as well as arrange a panel discussion on women in mathematics....

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | July 31, 2010 8:20 PM

Okay, calming down, a different story to lighten up the Endless Thread.

This morning I had a little visitor while I was waking up, a fairly large fire ant climbing up my bed directly for my face. Needless to say, this was quite a wake-up call, and I smacked the intruding Arthropoda repeatedly with a manga I had nearby until it moved no more.

The moral of this story?

Be a reader, it leaves weapons within reach.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 31, 2010 8:32 PM

On the subject of 12 step groups: In my experience of such groups (which is decades long at this point), they are astonishingly tolerant of atheism, probably more than any other segment of US society. Individual members vary, of course, but the official position is that no one can tell another person what their "higher power" is. It could be "the self I could be if I quit doing X", the collective wisdom of 12 step groups, the natural world, or Thor. All that's required is that one come up with a concept that will work in one's own life. You do not have to call it "God."

It is, unfortunately, quite easy to run into bozos who insist that you have to pray on your knees, use the word "God," go to their church, or whatever. Avoid these people like the plague that they are, or use the 12 step slogan "take what you need and leave the rest."

There are 12 step email lists for atheists, including Atheist-AA on googlegroups. In many large cities, there may be specialized groups that are labeled as atheist/non-theist meetings (some meetings are listed on this site. The email lists often have people with decades of sobriety or abstinence which they attribute to involvement in 12 step programs, which would seem to me to indicate that the program works just fine for non-theists. They are very supportive of newcomers and offer useful advice for dealing with the theist fools one may encounter.

Many groups meet in churches, but this doesn't necessarily mean that they are affiliated with that particular church - usually they just rent the room and are totally separate from the church. I would be extremely leary of rehab programs run by religious organizations, both because of the quality of the services offered and the proselytizing nature of the program.

I'm really not terribly interested in debating the 12 step program. It works for some people, it doesn't for others. The official policy of the organization has always been that other treatments should be developed and that they don't want to be the only treatment for any given condition. It's too bad that some 12 step members seem to overlook this part of the groups' literature and that substance abuse research was poorly funded for many years.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | July 31, 2010 8:34 PM

I smacked the intruding Arthropoda repeatedly with a manga

What did that manga ever do to you that you had to thrash it wildly with an ant?

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | July 31, 2010 8:41 PM

Birger Johansson #176

Today, two separate persons told me they their cats had returned after being missing for 2-3 weeks. It made my day. :)

Good for you, Birger, and good for the cats and their staff.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | July 31, 2010 9:09 PM

Mattir:

Better solution: SOS. (NSFEyeballs. The local chapter's page is slightly better.)

The founder of the local chapter was in AA for 23 years, and she disagrees with you. (PS: Have you read the Big Book? It severely disagrees with you, as well.)

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | July 31, 2010 9:16 PM

I smacked the intruding Arthropoda repeatedly with a manga

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | July 31, 2010 9:49 PM

Like I said, I'm not going to get into a discussion about 12 step programs. I just wanted to address the question raised above with my perspective. Obviously people disagree, but there are atheists with decades of sobriety who participate actively in AA and are open about their beliefs.

Posted by: heatherly | July 31, 2010 10:03 PM

Just finished catching up the endless thread, have been cleaning all day, will not even attempt to wade into the murk of the consent thread tonight.

ODS: Gratzi--if it's Dark Knight level violence, I can probably manage. I did do some ceiling tile counting in Dark Knight, but I was ok for most of it. I have a really LOW threshold for violence, for multiple reasons.

Re: AA: I agree with Mattir that AA *can* be useful for some, less so for others. And there are atheist AA groups. However, there can also be some very conservative and religious focused groups--it all depends on the people. I'm not actually too thrilled with AA--I'd rather more research put into treatment methods that were more effective. I generally refer clients to AA only as an additional support to accompany out-patient treatment and rehab.

And, g'nite!

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | July 31, 2010 11:00 PM

Why does Shark Week always start when I'm about to go home where there is no cable TV?

Posted by: Becca the Over Socialized | July 31, 2010 11:35 PM

I smacked the intruding Arthropoda repeatedly with a manga

you know, this is the best argument I've seen against ebooks yet.

I just got my Dad's old Kindle, and loaded it with free books (I do love Project Gutenberg!). Husband is strongly anti-ebooks in general and Kindles in particular, so I feel very strange reading it in his presence.

I had to duck out of "implicit Consent" around #476 - the argument was going nowhere. I watched Doctor Who instead, which on the whole is better for my cortisol levels.

Posted by: Chgo_Liz | July 31, 2010 11:59 PM

On some thread recently, someone was talking about ordering a veggie burger with bacon. Lo-and-behold, it has a name: at Fatburger, it's called a Hypocrite.

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | August 1, 2010 12:12 AM

I've been trying out a Sony eReader over the last week. The eInk technology is interesting and it's definitely something I want to get in the future, but at the moment the technology isn't quite there yet. Needs better contrast.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 1, 2010 12:23 AM

heatherly:

ODS: Gratzi--if it's Dark Knight level violence, I can probably manage. I did do some ceiling tile counting in Dark Knight, but I was ok for most of it. I have a really LOW threshold for violence, for multiple reasons.

Ummmm... having watched Inception again, maybe I was wrong. None of the violence is particularly graphic (my mom, who deplores shit like that totally loved it), but there's a hell of a lot of beating the hell out of other people.

But, like I said, I have no gauge for this. I have an extreme tolerance for most things*, so maybe you should double check w/ someone who knows your tastes a little better.

*Well, violence/sex/cussing, etc. I have no tolerance for being force-fed shitty films, simply 'cos they've got "mass appeal".

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 1, 2010 12:29 AM

I've read through 575 comments on the "Implicit Consent" post and I am so fucking glad I got out of there when I did.

To everyone who fought the good fight: You rock. You've all said things I would like to say, but with much more eloquence than I ever could.

Now I think it's time for bed. *hugs* to Cerberus (if she wants them) and sweet dreams, everybody!

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 1, 2010 12:54 AM

So I'm going to get the "exam" soon. :/ Still not looking foward to it. But I've chosen to know whether I have a problem or not. And I figure I didn't want to be an example of the "irresponsible" gay male. :/ Thanks again to all those who push me to get the appointment.

On a less serious note, I'm having trouble finding things to blog about. I'm getting to the point where I have nothing but pretty pictures to post.

Posted by: John Morales | August 1, 2010 1:12 AM

Cerberus, at the risk of repeating myself: You're awesome.

--

Anyway, regarding movies in general, and Inception in particular, I'm of the opinion that one should not go to watch one with high expectations. That way, one is far less likely to feel "let down".

Then:
If it's great, great!
If it's mediocre, well, not bad... ;)
If it's disappointing, ah well.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 1, 2010 1:39 AM

Gyeong-

Don't worry, it's always better to know and a positive result is not the end of the world.

But here's hoping for a negative!

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 1, 2010 2:09 AM

Cerberus:

So did anyone have an exciting weekend or have some non-heavy issues to talk about?

No excitement here, just enjoying time with the Mister. And I'm going on my 5th day vaping and not smoking. :)

Gyeong Hwa:

So I'm going to get the "exam" soon. :/ Still not looking foward to it. But I've chosen to know whether I have a problem or not. And I figure I didn't want to be an example of the "irresponsible" gay male. :/ Thanks again to all those who push me to get the appointment.

Good for you. I know it's tough, I had to do it myself and it was one of the most difficult things I had to do. It was worse than doing the "could be cancer" biopsy/hurry up and wait, wait, wait business. Turned out okay for me, and I'm sure it will for you too. Just remember, positive is not the end of the world, or you. Remember too that you have The Horde - we have your back.

On a less serious note, I'm having trouble finding things to blog about. I'm getting to the point where I have nothing but pretty pictures to post.

There are worse things to blog about than pretty pictures. I don't know - why do you find a certain picture pretty? What thought strings does it spark? Think of blogging like having a conversation.

Posted by: John Morales | August 1, 2010 2:37 AM

Hey, Pikachu, why is it an issue if you post already-covered news?

Self-imposed constraints are self-imposed; if they're conscious and deliberate, then I suppose they're valid. But maybe they're subconscious?

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 1, 2010 3:13 AM

John Morales,

I don't want the readership to get bored. My blog feed already allows them to see some of those news. I think I should elaborate on them but I'm still learning how to writings in a way that will appeal to a reader.

Posted by: Miki Z | August 1, 2010 3:22 AM

I'm letting Kel and erichovind have space in that thread, but I just can't let this one slip by without commenting somewhere:

I am sure you see the problem here. No, doubt is not what brought any of that about. Certainty is! People were certain about chemistry, electronics, physics, mathematics, and morality. They did not doubt them.

This alone shows that eric has never studied deeply any subject but his own navel. Certainty kills progress. In mathematics alone, the "certainty" that all numbers were irrational shut down mathematics for a few hundred years, the "certainty" that all numbers were real for a shorter time, and the proof that uncertainty was inevitable led to lots of acrimony and really fantastic mathematics.

And the reaction to Kel's statements about "different physics" -- erichovind is clearly a platonist, believing in an immutable "TRUTH!" which not only waits to be discovered but can be. I'd explain deterministic chaos (or even just Goedel) but it's clear he would never be able to understand it.

Also, because it's reached the level where it's clear that they are a product of a poor education and not just the random typo:
The word is waste, not waist.
definitely, not defiantly
In English, questions should end in a question mark.
surly means something different than surely
In "Hope your enjoying the iPod" it's you're not your

Maybe we need a few more PZ boys and girls that believe in God

Kel, Speaking of what your arguing for, what are you arguing for?

Having a hard time figuring out if you believe in "wrong" aren't you.

Perhaps I just need to learn English from Patriot Bible College to properly appreciate the genius.

Posted by: John Morales | August 1, 2010 3:44 AM

Gyeong, fair enough, if you're writing for your readership and not for yourself.

Note, though, that it may still be the case you have a perspective that is new on any given issue already covered elsewhere.

--

Also, have you considered making the odd posting in Cambodian/relating to Cambodian issues?

It may be (I have no idea) an unexploited niche in your country's blogosphere.

--

Unlike Cerberus @205, I think you're right to worry; OTOH I agree with her that it's better to know one way or another.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 1, 2010 4:09 AM

Also, have you considered making the odd posting in Cambodian/relating to Cambodian issues?

It may be (I have no idea) an unexploited niche in your country's blogosphere.

A couple of problem with that:

I've deleted the program for the Khmer script Unicode encoding because I don't know how to switch between the English and Khmer keyboard.

Even so, I'm illiterate in Khmer. I might be able to attract some english readers in Cambodia. I understand that many Cambodians (in Cambodia) use the internet now, but seeing an entire blog writen in English (and sometimes German) may not be inviting to them.

I'm not sure what Cambodians would take from my post. I post things from the Asian-American perspective. Plus my blog also duals in LGBT issues and anthropology. While some may be interested in the latter, I don't know how they'd view the former. (And lets not forget the whole secular liberal thing)

For the record, I also use blogging as a way to improve my writing, put out thougts, and practice German.

Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi | August 1, 2010 4:36 AM

@Feynmaniac #210:

If SIWOTI and Feynmaniac isn't there to tell them so, are they still wrong?

At least avoid the leaden inertia long enough to type in the odd, 'Oh, for fuck sake! Take a biology course!'

Do it for the children.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 1, 2010 5:30 AM

Gyeong Hwa:

I'm not sure if I could financially support the treatment if the test comes positive.

I was wondering about that. That is a huge problem, being able to afford treatment. If it comes to that, and you need help, don't be afraid to ask. I'd certainly be willing to help you out on that front, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

Posted by: Roameo | August 1, 2010 6:05 AM

Dont know if this has been posted yet, but apparently when you have state sponsored religious education, the creotards get a foot in the door

Posted by: Rorschach | August 1, 2010 6:57 AM

Wonder if people can refrain from the "I'm so sorry" shit for once.Would be appreciated.

Posted by: John Morales | August 1, 2010 7:26 AM

I'm livid and I'm shaking with adrenaline.

For the first time I think I'm getting an inkling of the anger many Pharyngula women feel when discussing a certain topic.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | August 1, 2010 7:55 AM

BoS, leukemia is very treatable these days. Hope yours responds.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 1, 2010 8:21 AM

John Morales:

For the first time I think I'm getting an inkling of the anger many Pharyngula women feel when discussing a certain topic.

I'm surprised you held out in the "Implicit Consent" thread as long as you did-- I couldn't have remained coherent for that long. Hell, I'm surprised anyone stuck around as long as they did. I'm wading through the hundred or so comments that were posted since I went to bed last night and it's the same tired arguments going 'round and 'round again.

They're never going to get it. Never. Which is too depressing to think about this early in the morning.

Here look! Pretty pictures!

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 1, 2010 8:25 AM

Hate... hate allergies! My face is revolting. Like literally revolting - having a revolution.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 1, 2010 9:02 AM

Liberal Christians can be very weird:

The New Atheists may not be reaching literalists. Moderates and liberals, however, and those who identify as “spiritual but not religious” cannot so easily ignore their attacks. I certainly couldn’t.

“The New Atheists are God’s prophets,” I proclaim in pulpits, podcasts, and blogposts. It took a diagnosis of cancer last September to propel me to this point. Graced with remission, this is still my core message.

The New Atheists, I suggest, are not enemies of religion; they are modern-day prophets. Prophets traditionally were those who chastised their people for having fallen out of sync with their time, with ‘God’s ways.’ “Come into right relationship with Reality,” they warned, “or perish!”

Today’s science-oriented atheists call us into right relationship with our time, and that means using all of our best information and cross-cultural experience.

I'm not exactly sure of what to make of that.
_ _ _
@Bride of Shrek:
I hope for the best.

Posted by: JeffreyD | August 1, 2010 9:18 AM

Bride of Shrek OM - Damn. Hoping next appointment gives you a clear and optimistic path.

Posted by: llewelly | August 1, 2010 9:30 AM

Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero. | August 1, 2010 9:02 AM:

Liberal Christians can be very weird:

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | August 1, 2010 10:28 AM

Michael Dowd has commented here a few times, IIRC. He's an... interesting character.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 1, 2010 10:41 AM

heatherly:
Sorry I couldn't be of more help. It is an awesome movie, though.

And speaking of cats:
One of my adorable demon spawn horfed up a hairball last night. The damned thing was over four inches long. Bonus: she did it in the one room that's carpeted.

I'm feeling your pain.

Posted by: windy | August 1, 2010 10:55 AM

Anyone who can write what he did after what I wrote about what happened to me can go fuck himself into a deep dark pit of my everlasting hate.

FFS, what emotionally manipulative bullshit.

Posted by: Rorschach | August 1, 2010 11:10 AM

Sor-

I see your point.

Guess there's a first for everything.

Posted by: Rorschach | August 1, 2010 11:33 AM

Anyone who can write what he did after what I wrote about what happened to me can go fuck himself into a deep dark pit of my everlasting hate.

FFS, what emotionally manipulative bullshit.

Quite.

Posted by: heatherly | August 1, 2010 11:54 AM

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!! I step outside to hang up the laundry and one of the cats snuck back into the room and threw up a hairball!! Not quite four inches, ODS, but close. It's a conspiracy!

I'm putting the file cabinet in front of the door now. (It's an old house, so the doors warp a little, and just closing it doesn't mean a little push won't open it again.)

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 1, 2010 12:19 PM

Rorschach, is it okay for me to express sorrow about Heatherly's cat's hairballs?

In other news: With Unemployment Benefits Extended, Rates of Domestic Masturbation And Sodomy Are Poised to Skyrocket -- at least that's the view from christwire.org.
Excerpt:

Traditionally, high rates of unemployment have led to rises in crime across the board– from petty theft to drug abuse and prostitution. Our current crisis, with young educated people being most affected, brings up special concerns for Christian-Americans who have always adhered to solid principles of hard work and family. The incredible blocks of idle time that today’s teens and now 20-somethings have been granted poses a unique problem for our society. A 2004 study conducted in Toronto, Canada found that, “Healthy 21-28 year old males are able to masturbate at least 8-10 times per day if they are not stressed.” Another recent report went even further, stating, “[Masturbation] poses genuine health and spiritual risks, and also threatens workplace safety and the overall productivity of our economy...

Christ Wire is supposedly satire, but damn, I know religious people who talk/think like that. And the anti-masturbation bit is just too mormon for comfort.

I did appreciate their inclusion of this quote from the bible:

“She became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.“ –Ezekiel 23: 19-21.

Check out the comments below the article. Christians reading it seem to take it seriously.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 1, 2010 12:26 PM

BoS holy shit! I'm so sorry to hear. Mercifully it sounds like you will be able to get good treatment. What a hard fight that is.

Posted by: Becca the Over Socialized | August 1, 2010 12:32 PM

Kel @ 195 - the K3 and Kindle DX Graphite are worlds better than the K2 or the Sony and Nook - much lighter background, darker text, 16 levels of gray scale. I'm making do with my dad's old K2, but oh! I have a bad case of technolust for the K3.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 1, 2010 12:37 PM

“Healthy 21-28 year old males are able to masturbate at least 8-10 times per day if they are not stressed.”

Amateurs.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 1, 2010 1:13 PM

Though you're certainly not the first this weekend to accuse me of this, the aforementioned Scented accused me of making up my own sexual assault in order to emotionally manipulate people.

Cerberus. There's a reason I won't talk about it anymore here. Just know who your friends are and let the rest ride.

They're just people. People you don't know and who don't matter.

Try to find some peace today.

*hugs*

Posted by: JeffreyD | August 1, 2010 1:27 PM

That seems like it would take a lot of time out of the day though!

Nah, ten or twelve minutes, tops. ;^}

Posted by: A. Noyd | August 1, 2010 1:32 PM

Gyeong Hwa Pak (#217)

I've deleted the program for the Khmer script Unicode encoding because I don't know how to switch between the English and Khmer keyboard.

What program? Because it should be pretty easy to get that working as part of the Windows language bar. I managed to get something typed in Khmer script, at any rate. Probably the equivalent of "sfoiaaxovivasoeimawuiob" since I can't read the alphabet. If you want some help troubleshooting let me know here or at anoyd [at] ymail [dot] com.

~*~*~*~*~*~

Bride of Shrek (#224)

Apparently I have leukemia.

Well, that's really shitty. I hope all goes well, though, and that you don't have to deal with any victim blamers of the theist or alt med sorts.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 1, 2010 2:33 PM

Bride:

Apparently I have leukemia.

Damn. That's harsh news. I hope your treatment goes well, you'll be in my thoughts.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 1, 2010 3:06 PM

What DPI should be maintained for a poster-size print?

I have an image that I want to print at 16"x20". The image is 2879x2304 pixels, which works out to 144 dpi. (It's cropped from my 8MP DSLR.)

Walmart's online photo center doesn't complain about my prints up to 20"x30", but at $14 a pop, I'd rather not waste prints...

Posted by: DominEditrix | August 1, 2010 3:29 PM

I'm spending my Sunday ranting. That, or going to the firing range and gut-shooting this man in effigy:

I just discovered that my mother has been scammed with a non-existent long-term health care policy. One Michael Woodward, aka Mike Woods, has been preying on the elderly and has been banned in two states [WA & OR] and is being sued by the Attorneys General in others. If you have elderly parents, tell them to never *ever* buy a "Home Health America" or "Americare" policy from the above individual.

AARP had a big write-up about him and his scam late last year. So, tomorrow, I call the Attorney General of Utah and the District Attorney...and my mother goes broke because the policy she thought would cover her husband, who's been in a nursing home for 93 of his allotted 100 Medicare-covered days, doesn't actually exist.

Fuck, fuck, fuck!

Posted by: Deviant One | August 1, 2010 3:35 PM

Bride of Shrek: Good luck with your treatment and recovery!

Gyeong - Adding my voice to the chorus of "good luck" and "here for you in any way I can be".

Cerberus: I have no words to offer, only thanks and disgust at the implications being levied at you.

Posted by: Deviant One | August 1, 2010 3:50 PM

Wow, DominEditrix, that's awful!

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 1, 2010 3:54 PM

The dating scene in Idaho:

...Jeffers, who moved to Idaho Falls in 2007 after graduating from Virginia Tech, quickly found out that being a single man in Idaho Falls who's unaffiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is different from single life in other cities.
     "It's always like a joke," he said. "It's like, 'You're single? Well, good luck.'"...

In this society they do not even mention going to church or any other places other than a bar or a social crowd where everyone is putting on airs.
     There are many other places where you might find a nice lady with morals who is willing to devote themselves to a marriage and decent life with you exclusively.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 1, 2010 4:02 PM

chgo_liz:

Why can't posters show empathy any way they see fit?

They can, Rorschach just has a tendency to be an arse. Express yourself any way you like.

Posted by: DominEditrix | August 1, 2010 4:09 PM

Lynna - My mother's physician left Salt Lake City for San Diego for the same reason: Altho' he was a nice, attractive, young, single doctor, he couldn't find women to date. The first question out of every woman's mouth was 'Are you LDS?' And don't even think of asking a woman out for coffee to get to know her...

It had never occurred to him when he first took the job that there would be a problem, as he was completely unaware of the predominant culture in SLC.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 1, 2010 4:12 PM

I was just making a joke about Rorschach requesting that we not go through another round of "I'm sorry" (comment #253). I don't really care if the "I'm sorry" repetitions irritate someone, or not -- but I have a feeling that Rorschach meant that Bride of Shrek's situation deserved more than a round of "I'm sorry" -- or perhaps that just saying "I'm sorry" in a situation as difficult as hers may come off as too easy.

Anyway, to each his own.

One thing is for certain, Rorschach knows, from his experience as a doctor, just what Bride's situation entails. Maybe he just felt how overwhelming it can be?

Okay, I'll stop trying to read Rorschach's mind now. (Sorry, Rorschach.) I'll just say that the info Bride of Shrek posted overwhelmed me. I wish I could help. I am also jealous of her health insurance ... so how petty is that?

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 1, 2010 4:21 PM

With a name like Rorschach, I submit that he's virtually asking for people to project their own fantasies into his mind.

(Sorry.)

Posted by: DominEditrix | August 1, 2010 4:23 PM

Bride of Shrek: Sad to hear that. I do hope your therapy goes well.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 1, 2010 4:25 PM

My favorite mormon story from the Spawn's week of working at Boy Scout camp during mormon week:

One counselor was talking about a kid at his school who'd been suspended for jerking off in the back of the classroom. Another kid said that was something one should do in the privacy of one's own room, then looked at the mormon kid who was a counselor in training and said, "Yeah, it sucks to be you."

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | August 1, 2010 4:29 PM

BoS, hugs from me.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 1, 2010 4:32 PM

'Tis:

Sort of like a sailing economist we all know.

Yeah, but...you have sailing stories and songs.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 1, 2010 4:35 PM

Mattir, I loved the story your spawn told about mormon week at Boy Scout camp. May I repost it on exmormon.org? I would not identify you, of course.

Posted by: Weed Monkey | August 1, 2010 4:40 PM

Yeah, but...you have sailing stories and songs.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 1, 2010 4:42 PM

Haha! I just don't think of Rorschach as an asshole. To me he's more like a kitten. Some times he bites your hand and some times he's purring in your lap :P

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | August 1, 2010 4:51 PM

Yeah, but...you have sailing stories and songs.

In response, here's Captain Tractor singing "The Last Saskatchewan Pirate":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_L9tXEwmc&feature=related

Posted by: Thebear, just an agent of peas | August 1, 2010 4:55 PM

A 2004 study conducted in Toronto, Canada found that, “Healthy 21-28 year old males are able to masturbate at least 8-10 times per day if they are not stressed.” WTF!?

Sounds like a good way to become really sore...

Get-better-hugs to BoS if those are wanted from semi-lurkers...

And a lot of bad themes here tonight, for those who want something more innocent I just put up a whole lotta bread at my blog...

Posted by: blf | August 1, 2010 4:58 PM

Is Captain Tractor still around?

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 1, 2010 5:31 PM

I've got a better pirate song.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 1, 2010 5:55 PM

“The New Atheists are God’s prophets,”

The Blogspel According To PeeZeekiel?

Posted by: Birger Johansson | August 1, 2010 6:00 PM

William Gibson and reality have caught up with each other: "Two years and 100 mln dollars buys winning cyber army"
http://www.physorg.com/news199888404.html

@ 274
We would need a team of Rorschach clones (the OTHER Rorschach) or maybe The Authority...

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | August 1, 2010 6:07 PM

BoSOm, best of luckmedical care to you

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 1, 2010 6:32 PM

Try pine cat litter. Izzi loved it [she hated clay litter] and the vet recommended it. Sometimes it's just a matter of finding the litter they like.

Oh yes, the pine litter is THE BEST! One of my cats* would not use the litter box if it had been used by another cat. Since the Mr and I have full time jobs, we don't have the time to scoop poop multiple times a day. (Thankfully, she messed the bathroom floor, where it's not so hard to clean up).

The pine litter solved all of her problems. I don't know if it's because it absorbs the smell better or what, but she no longer poops outside the box. It's a lovely thing!

*Maggie, who was the one who horfed up the hairball this morning.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 1, 2010 6:40 PM

Which OS and how old? (I shouldn't have assumed it was Windows.) And which program?

I'm not sure what's the program is called I downloaded it off a news website. I use XP.

Posted by: Birger Johansson | August 1, 2010 7:11 PM

All scammers suck, but those who target the elderly should be regarded as automatic "volunteers" for organ donation. Or be sent to Angola to clear land mines.

Posted by: JeffreyD | August 1, 2010 7:52 PM

Perspective does make a difference. My heel/ankle have been killing me all weekend, had to go back to the narcocktails. Then I read about BoS, Cerberus' past and current issues, Gyeong's testing concerns, DominEditrix's mom getting scammed, and other things affecting other people, and my problems just seem pretty small. Also, I have pretty good insurance.

Yeah, the above not much of an entry and pretty Pollyanna, but this is the endless thread and I do feel silly for feeling sorry for myself.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 1, 2010 7:55 PM

JeffreyD-

It's okay to feel sorry for yourself when bad things happen. Just because other worse things have happened to others doesn't mitigate or eliminate your pain and suffering. It's yours and it's okay to own it and want comforting in times of need.

So, hugs if you'll take them.

Posted by: JeffreyD | August 1, 2010 8:24 PM

Cerberus - never turned down a hug.(smile)

I am trying to gain some perspective though. My problem is long running, irritating and painful, but fixable (or removable in the worst case). So yeah, I do remind myself things could be worse. Just been a tough day and forced to stay inside while all the other kids get to go out and play. ;^}

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 1, 2010 9:21 PM

Oh, and I just found this on the YouTubes: Polkaface. (I was at that show!)

Posted by: crowepps | August 1, 2010 9:42 PM

Fresh asparagus -- ummmmmmm

I just steam it until tender and serve with hollandaise sauce. Some classics can't be improved upon.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | August 1, 2010 9:48 PM

Sympathies and hugs to all who are dealing with the shitty stuff in life.

Sili,

Why would you need a recipe for asparagus? I always eat it grilled or broiled. Just drizzle a little olive oil over it and cook until tender-crisp. Absolutely delish! I never waste it in anything else. Even when the stuff is in season around here it's still expensive.

Posted by: Aaron Baker | August 1, 2010 10:02 PM

Why would you need a recipe for asparagus? I always eat it grilled or broiled. Just drizzle a little olive oil over it and cook until tender-crisp.

I second this. It's exactly what my wife does with asparagus, and it's great.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 1, 2010 10:11 PM

Pygmy Loris,
Try asparagus in Tempura.

Vegetable oil, for frying
1 cup rice flour
1/4 teaspoon baking powder
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
1 teaspoon canola oil
1 cup club soda
Salt
24 thin asparagus spears (about 9 ounces), tough bottoms trimmed
Lemon wedges or prepared ponzu sauce, for serving

In a large saucepan, heat 1 inch of vegetable oil to 350°. In a medium bowl, whisk the rice flour with the baking powder, baking soda, canola oil, club soda and 1 teaspoon of salt until smooth.
Dip the asparagus in the batter and fry, in batches if necessary, until golden and crisp, about 2 minutes. Drain the asparagus on paper towels and season lightly with salt. Serve at once, with lemon wedges or ponzu sauce

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | August 1, 2010 10:21 PM

August looks much better. My tooth is healing. No travels planned, the Redhead's parents leave for home tomorrow, and the painting/fixit projects are almost done. Back to normal. Whatever that is.

Posted by: Aaron Baker | August 1, 2010 10:38 PM

@324: Thanks for the kind thoughts, CW.

I was hoping for a critique of the poem, but that's all right.

Posted by: Rorschach | August 1, 2010 10:55 PM

John Kw*k's list of FB friends makes for an interesting read...:-)

Off to buy some new glasses, since my boy broke mine last week people at work have started to call me "Harry".
Yes, the replacement glasses are round spectacles.A.D.ca 1992.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | August 1, 2010 11:02 PM

Mattir,

I would love your recipe for ginger meatballs! The boyfriend's mom won't like it though.

I'll give y'all an example of the nasty uses she puts ground chicken to. She used to put ground beef in store-bought alfredo sauce from a jar, which was pretty gross anyway. Now, she's adding ground chicken, and it's even more disgusting. The woman cooks the most awful things and thinks they're delicious. She gets all insulted when I won't eat this shit. It's not like I'm a guest, and I have to eat it to be polite. I'm paying her fucking rent! Maybe she's just trying to get me to cook more. She'll go on and on about how good the food I cook is. Well, yeah, I don't cook with ground anything very often (hamburgers are an exception and I buy pastured beef), and I use these wonderful things called vegetables! Amazing, huh? /rant

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | August 1, 2010 11:07 PM

Try pine cat litter. Izzi loved it [she hated clay litter]

So does anyone have some nice 'sparagical recipes?

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 1, 2010 11:26 PM

Caine's onion soup and ODS's bread were both delicious. I and my family thank you.

Sili
I like to make a veggie-laden pasta dish that includes sliced asparagus. Basically, sautee squash, mushrooms, onions, asparagus, and garlic (add/subtract varieties of veggies as needed) and toss 'em up with some shrimp and fresh tomatoes, a white wine/chick stock reduction, and some noodles. Add fresh basil and parmesan cheese if that's your thing (and it probably should be). So good.

As you can see, I don't give amounts for my recipes. Just whatever it takes until it tastes good.*

*Life motto

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 1, 2010 11:38 PM

Ginger-chicken meatballs (tsukune)

Ingredients:

* 1 pound ground chicken
* 1 egg
* 4 shiitake mushrooms
* 1/4 onion
* 1 tbsp soy sauce
* 2 tsp mirin
* 1/2 tsp salt
* 1 tsp fresh ginger juice
* 1/4 cup bread crumb
* *vegetable oil for frying

Preparation:
Chop onion and shiitake mushrooms. Mix chopped onion, shiitake, chicken, soy sauce, mirin, ginger juice, salt, egg, and bread crumbs in a bowl. Mix well and make small balls. Heat oil in a deep-frying pan and deep-fry meat balls until they are brown.

*Makes 4 servings

These can also be boiled, steamed, or grilled. Very wonderful.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 2, 2010 12:15 AM

Rey Fox:

I had this kind of moment a while ago.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 2, 2010 12:37 AM

Arghhh,...just read a dreadful article in the NYT by Gury Gutting entitled 'Philosophy and Faith'. Gutting is a professor of at Notre Dame who specializes in the philosophy of religion.

From the article,

There is no disagreement among philosophers about the more popular arguments to which theists and atheists typically appeal: as formulated, they do not prove (that is, logically derive from uncontroversial premises) what they claim to prove.

I think few atheists have claimed to have logically disproven God for certain. Most the ones I've encountered tend to just say it's extremely unlikely given the evidence.

He later adds:

In these popular debates about God’s existence, the winners are neither theists nor atheists, but agnostics — the neglected step-children of religious controversy, who rightly point out that neither side in the debate has made its case. This is the position supported by the consensus of expert philosophical opinion.

This conclusion should particularly discomfit popular proponents of atheism, such as Richard Dawkins, whose position is entirely based on demonstrably faulty arguments.

1) Philosophy isn't my field of expertise, but it appears a good percentage of philosophers are atheists.
Looking at a study that took "3226 respondents, including 1803 philosophy faculty members and/or PhDs and 829 philosophy graduate students":

Accept or lean toward: atheism 678 / 931 (72.8%)
Accept or lean toward: theism 136 / 931 (14.6%)
Other 117 / 931 (12.5%)

It didn't have agnosticism explicitly as an option, but if there is consensus anywhere it seems be leaning towards atheism. Of course, what a survey of philosophers (or any profession for that matter) think isn't good evidence for theism, atheism or agnosticism. However, it does Gutting's assertion is wrong.

2)He never states what Dawkins' arguments are and why they are demonstrably false. If he actual read Dawkins he would realize that he, like most atheists, would only say God is extremely unlikely (as I mentioned above).

An answer may lie in work by philosophers as different as David Hume, Ludwig Wittgenstein, and Alvin Plantinga. In various ways, they have shown that everyday life is based on “basic” beliefs for which we have no good arguments. There are, for example, no more basic truths from which we can prove that the past is often a good guide to the future, that our memories are reliable, or that other people have a conscious inner life. Such beliefs simply — and quite properly — arise from our experience in the world.

Well, those beliefs aren't proven (in the mathematical sense) but they are well supported by evidence and parsimony. If asked to give a justification for them, a good argument can be made for the past being a good guide to the future and the that other minds exists. As for memories being reliable, they aren't. At best, you can make an argument that they're somewhat reliable.

Plantinga in particular has argued that core religious beliefs can have a status similar to these basic but unproven beliefs....Who is to say that such experiences do not give reason for belief in God as much as parallel (though different) experiences give reason for belief in reliable knowledge of the past and future and of other human minds? There is still room for philosophical disputes about this line of thought, but it remains the most plausible starting point of a philosophical case for religious belief.

We accept some things without explicitly making an argument for them (though if asked we can justify them) so maybe God is one of those things? It says something that this is the "most plausible starting point of a philosophical case for religious belief"

/rant

(PZ makes this look easy.)

Posted by: DominEditrix | August 2, 2010 3:22 AM

Mattir -

We just tried that paper cat litter last week. Kiriko ignored it and Isadora, who loves to snack on paper towels, started eating it. This morning, we donated it to the kitten rescue folk who have adoption days at our local Petco. [They also got a bunch of towels, some toys we'd never given to our cats, a container of clay litter and some bowls. We are trying to pare down.]

Katrina -

Your neighbour's pigs smelt like pine? Wow! Every pig sty I've been around was not nearly so pleasant. But still, better than chicken coops, which I've always hated. Oddly enough, stables don't bother me, but I imprinted on horses at an early age - and my father made sure my first lessons were mucking out stalls and cleaning tack. After a few weeks of that, one gets used to equine poop.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | August 2, 2010 5:50 AM

OMFG can the consent thread get any dumber? Now it is our duty as skeptics to view the video clip. Rise to the call!

Bleh.... morons are depressing.

QFT.

Seriously, how hard is it for some men to grasp the concept that women are human beings with individual rights, and that it isn't okay to forcibly violate their privacy for someone else's profit? That isn't "radical feminism", it's basic decency and ethical behaviour. I've never even really thought of myself as a feminist; yet I would never think it was okay to do that to someone. And I'm astonished, and pretty sickened, that so many people are defending GGW.

/rant

Posted by: John Morales | August 2, 2010 6:27 AM

Feynmaniac, I followed that link and read the piece. It's basically crap, and this guy might or might not be a good analytic philosopher on other topics, but he has a god-shaped hole in his brain.

Were I his student, I'd probably ask him to define what this thing called 'God' is.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 2, 2010 6:44 AM

Caine, Fleur du mal OM:

I cannot and will not respect anyone who takes Plantinga seriously

Agreed.

Kel,OM:

Dawkins has become the favourite straw-man to attack

It's really pathetic!

John Morales:

It's basically crap

Good summary.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 2, 2010 7:14 AM

Walton:

Problem is, "what's right" and "what's legal" are usually not synonymous. There's no law against most douchebaggery.

(I still think the jury foreman needs to have his meat and two introduced to a pencil sharpener, even though I agree with the verdict, because the rationale he gave was so very, very wrong.)

Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere | August 2, 2010 7:31 AM

Well there's always Eric to argue with...

oh wait, he didn't come back!

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 7:41 AM

I did absolutely nothing this weekend. I feel accomplished, mildly depressed still, but feeling a little bit better since I got all my problems off my chest.

How was everyone's weekend?

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 7:56 AM

Windy, my anger has settled, but now I feel combative. Got an hour and a bit before I have to retire for the night; I'm back there and so hoping some of the scum come back into the fray.

Yeah, that's what I meant. You can't disagree in those threads anymore without being "scum" or a troll or a rape apologist. There's always some scum around but I'm not sure it excuses this.

Posted by: heatherly | August 2, 2010 8:22 AM

A quick hello to say that I start my first day at the new job today so will most likely be scarce this week till I know what their policies on internet breaks are. :)

Take care, all!

Posted by: broboxley OT | August 2, 2010 9:09 AM

Report on the Gulf of Mexico Bay St Louis. Just got back from a trip to the area.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=pass+christian+ms&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.561629,55.898438&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Pass+Christian,+Harrison,+Mississippi&ll=30.344986,-89.264407&spn=0.000914,0.001706&t=h&z=19
If you zoom out you will see the general area I would like to settle in eventually. Now there was minimal tar on the beaches but I didnt see much in the marshes above. Heard frogs, saw a softshell and blue crab alive and well and schools of baitfish roiling the water after gnats and mosquitos. The area is boomed off except for a small center section to allow boat traffic in and out. Not as bad as Louisiana.

Posted by: John Morales | August 2, 2010 9:20 AM

Rorschach,

Blog bullies, what we didn't need here.

Oh yes, I'm using my fearsome and daunting physical size, privileged status and coterie of droogs to intimidate poor innocents for yucks by, um, writing comments in response to comments.

Bully, I.

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 10:24 AM

and have nothing to do with sophism, disingenuity or victim-blaming and apologetics for the status quo?

Plenty of those on all sides of the argument in that thread. Skeptifem's attack on RemieV, for example. Does that mean that everyone is "scum"?

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | August 2, 2010 10:52 AM

DominEditrix:

Your neighbour's pigs smelt like pine? Wow! Every pig sty I've been around was not nearly so pleasant.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 2, 2010 11:00 AM

I did a bunch of baking this weekend, and I successfully completed the knitting of an adorable dinosaur (still have to stitch it and stuff it).

I still hate the Consent thread.

Poor bf had to listen to rants about implicit consent all weekend. He didn't mind, seeing as he's at least partially responsible for helping me see how disenfranchised women are in our society.* FSM bless him for his egalitarian nature. I need to give him another hug.

*Take THAT! Southern male stereotypes! (which he fits in appearance, accent, and vernacular)

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | August 2, 2010 11:03 AM

Ol'Greg, I'm sorry that my July seems to be slopping over into your August.

Happy New Job, heatherly!

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | August 2, 2010 11:09 AM

windy #377 yes we are but I bet $40 I could make her come, dynamo

broboxley, you know better than to make comments like that. Seriously. Since when is it okay to make sexual remarks about random strangers on the internet?

Don't be a dick.

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 11:11 AM

My heart. It really bleeds for you. If you want to disagree then disagree. If some one calls you a rape apologist take it up with them.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 11:17 AM

Blog bullies, what we didn't need here.

Oh what was that inside of me? Shit... I didn't even know I had an irony meter!

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 11:22 AM

Well apparently it means everyone is a hysteric who won't let poor you post without challenge. Or isn't that what you were just saying?

No, it was the fuck not what I was saying.

My heart. It really bleeds for you. If you want to disagree then disagree. If some one calls you a rape apologist take it up with them.

Right, it's only those on the "right side" who must have their delicate little feewings validated. There have been MANY other complaints in the endless thread about the atmosphere in those threads and I haven't mocked those people with this "wah, wah, go cry somewhere else" shit even though I might have disagreements with them. So fuck you, hypocrites.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 11:27 AM

Right, it's only those on the "right side" who must have their delicate little feewings validated.

No one is keeping you from saying anything. You're the one getting upset here. Over things you haven't even said and things no one has said back to them.

So don't "little feewings" me when you haven't even made the arguments you're talking about.

My post here was about one specific commenter. It had fuck all to do with you. So why do you include me with everyone there.

If you're so damned afraid of conflict you won't even post because some one might disagree with you, what do you expect me to say?

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 11:44 AM

My post here was about one specific commenter. It had fuck all to do with you. So why do you include me with everyone there.

Er, because I was responding to you?

If you're so damned afraid of conflict you won't even post because some one might disagree with you, what do you expect me to say?

WTF? I have posted in that thread. But was also commenting on that thread in general. Is that off limits now?

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 11:52 AM

No it's not off limits. But it's just annoying to me that you are saying you're not willing to post things because some one might call you a rape apologist, and then applying that to everyone as if it is the evil feminazis against the good people of planet rational.

Especially when you haven't, to my knowledge, been called a rape apologist, and haven't said much at all in the thread really.

It's one thing to vent about a specific argument you're having with some commenter, but it's another to complain that the tone of a thread isn't friendly enough for you to be willing to say what you want to.

One is just easier for me to sympathize with. And that's all I'm saying.

Furthermore...

I don't make the rules around here. Just because I'm arguing with you right now doesn't actually mean you can't post what you did. It just means that some one here didn't take it the way you wanted.

Has life ever been different than this?

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 12:05 PM

Meh... I'll just apologize. It's not worth it.

Windy I'm sorry for arguing. I'm actually also very sincerely sorry you don't feel you can post what you want to or the arguments you really believe.

I get frustrated, but a lot of it comes from what I personally have had to fight for.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | August 2, 2010 12:05 PM

I normally avoid giving internet hugs to people after after the first five because I do not want to fill up a thread with the same sentiments. I assume that the person will include me as one of the well wishers. (Ex)Bride, I hope your medical treatments help. Good luck.

*Hug*

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 12:30 PM

Here's a Moment of Mormon Mediocrity. This time they are enshrining mediocrity in music.

...the new publications are simplified versions of selected hymns and hymn introductions designed to help beginning or less experienced organists make the transition from the piano to the organ....
     By using the "bass coupler," which is found on almost every meetinghouse organ installed in the past 20 years or so, individuals can make it sound as if they are playing with their feet. Creators of the new publication say that pianists who can play hymns with confidence and accuracy can, with careful practice, become an equally competent organist.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 12:37 PM

Creators of the new publication say that pianists who can play hymns with confidence and accuracy can, with careful practice, become an equally competent organist.

Seems like more pianists there should be learning to play the organ too!

I regret not studying the organ actually. I'd love to play one well, but can barely manage to operate it instead. Actually playing the organ would, I think, make one a better musician in general.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 1:02 PM

Cerberus. You are awesome.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 2, 2010 1:17 PM

On more interesting news, apparently some of you sent a young scared trans person my way (Jadehawk and pygmyloris).

Thank you. I'll see what I can do for him, though I need to figure out a good quick response as I'll probably be a little busy today and want to do a longer response either late tonight or tomorrow when I can sort my thoughts out more.

Things like this have popped up a couple of times and it always makes me feel warm and fuzzy to help people out who need it. Hell, that's really the root of all activism when you get right down to it, isn't it?

So yeah, today is starting much better than Saturday.

And again, to Bride, many hopes that treatment goes well. At least you caught it early, so while it may be a pain, there is good chance they'll be able to treat it. Hang in there.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 1:23 PM

@Cerberus:

Wouldn't know who that could be. (*shifty glance side-to-side*)

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 1:30 PM

@Rey Fox:

Actually, we're kind of discussing Futurama in an entirely different thread o.O

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 2, 2010 1:34 PM

Kevin @411

Giant hug!

Yeah, I sent you one email now and I've got a much longer response I've got in mind after I spend today actually being productive. Just remember, you've got a friend if you need one.

And yes, I'm willing to help out with any question you have whatsoever, no matter how weird or personal it may seem.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | August 2, 2010 1:35 PM

Good luck, to people fallen on harder times. Everyone can use a little luck. Wasn't sure what to say, didn't post for it.

Re: Consent thread. Given up again. Stupid 1, Rutee 0.

Windy: Rape Apologist means defending sexual assault. Since most of the people disagreeing with us 'radical feminists' were doing that, it's.. pretty much by default going to be an accurate appellation. The only person I can think of who may not have been doing that was "Oh she shouldn't have gotten 5 million dollars!" guy, and that set off the same warning bells in my head that I get when anyone anywhere talks about Islam as unique in wanting to change the law; If widespread stupid (Ridiculous incomes, religion trying to set laws) only started to bother you when a minority of some sort started doing it, I'm not going to think too well of your intentions.

At any rate, the side trying to maintain the oppression of women is not morally equivalent, in any way, shape, or form, to the side that is trying to bring equality. This should be even more obvious then atheism vs. religion, because at least moderate and liberal religionists who don't try to change social mores, who don't try to change science curricula, aren't trying to denigrate the beliefs of others, etc, can at least claim with some legitimacy to not outright causing harm, even if they're not trying to help any outgroup. If you think they're equivalent, then your perspective is, at best, flawed.

Caine, didn't get the chance to say this before: I'm young, and I can honestly say I've never seen that sort of radical feminist in the real world, anywhere, ever. I suppose I should acknowledge that somewhere, the parody existed or possibly exists for real, just as we here admit that there are asshole atheists who vaguely fit the baby eating stereotypes the religious right throws around about Atheists. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop treating either as primarily being the province of TV, and I'm going to be very skeptical of anyone who claims "I used to be a parody, but now I've seen the light (and done a complete 180)". Especially with crap anywhere resembling "I really just wanted the cock". That's one of the most ridiculous porn/TV tropes on the planet, and if it crops up... yeah, credibility destroyed.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 1:39 PM

@Cerberus:

Re-hug.

Thanks. It's been a pretty rough couple days for me, to be honest. After more or less an entire weekend playing StarCraft II (campaign was seriously lots of fun) I'm feeling less depressed, but not so much the sobbing I was doing at the start of this weekend.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 2:35 PM

Ol'Greg @405

Seems like more pianists there should be learning to play the organ too!

I take from this "simplify everything" spree within the mormon hierarchy a couple of possibly good omens: 1. They don't have gay organists to kick around anymore, 2. They have fewer musicians overall -- not enough sheeple to fill the chores in each ward, which is yet more sign that the active membership of the LDS Church is diminishing.

The mormon hierarch has downgraded the music, and now they're also downgrading their theology by basically pretending that most of it doesn't exist and never did exist. They have recently removed McConkie (former prophet) from history, doctrine, and other publications. They do not announce that they're doing this, nor do they give a reason. The dude is just suddenly gone, invisible. I wonder why?

Homosexual abominations are fast becoming the way of life among the wicked ungodly. – Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Apostle: Elder McConkie said these words in the October, 1980 General Conference (as reported in the November 1980 Ensign, p. 50). He is perhaps most well-known for writing the now-out-of-print book, Mormon Doctrine. Until recently nearly every manual and study guide in the Church had at least one quote from that book, despite the fact that it is was not ever an official study guide created by a unanimous vote of Church leaders.

We live in a day of evil and wickedness. The generality of men are carnal, sensual, and devilish. They have forgotten God and are reveling in the lusts of the flesh. Crime, immorality, abortions, and homosexual abominations are fast becoming the norm of life among the wicked and ungodly. The world will soon be as corrupt as it was in the days of Noah.
     If any of us are to escape the perils that lie ahead, if any of us are to abide the day of the Lord’s return, if any of us are to gain peace in this life and be inheritors of eternal life in the world to come, we must receive the message sent from on high and conform to the counsel it contains.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 2:43 PM

Haha! Generally discriminating or persecuting whole groups of people fucks with industry. You'd think people would have noticed by now!

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 2:59 PM

@Ben:

Well, my response to the Implied Consent thread is I'm done watching non-animated pornography. I don't think I could get enjoyment out of not being sure consent was given to the actresses...

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 3:07 PM

I had to make a vote for the LGBT Advisory Council in my workplace here... and none of the candidates expressed any concern over my particular concern. Lots of sexual orientation issues, but haven't seen any sexual identity.

I voted for the only person who expressed his orientation in the little report, so obviously he wasn't afraid of it.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 2, 2010 3:12 PM

Ol'Greg:

Usually there's a sign by the entrance, notifying those who enter that filming is in progress, and that whoever enters the room is giving consent for their image to be used for whatever purpose. Not quite as cut-and-dried as a signed release, but generally acceptable.

Filming in the first place is covered by standard privacy law. If you're in a public space (that includes private property if that property is open to the public, such as malls and bars) then you have no reasonable expectation of privacy, unless you're, for instance, in the restroom.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 3:18 PM

     In just four days, over 311,000 CREDO Action members and 180,000 MoveOn members — over 491,000 people — petitioned the board of the White House Correspondents Association and asked them not to give the best seat in the White House press briefing room to the rightwing noise machine's key propaganda outlet.      Just hours ago the board of the White House Correspondents Association met and decided not to give the seat to FOX.      There was clearly strong internal bias towards giving the seat to FOX. CNN reporter and WHCA board member Ed Henry publicly pledged to cast his vote for FOX before our campaign launched. And after we delivered the first 150,000 petition signatures, board member Julie Mason complained to an insider DC blog that "the reporters, producers and photographers from Fox News assigned to the White House are some of the best and well respected in the business" and furthermore accused us of "smearing" her "colleagues."      While we're disappointed that the seat did not go to NPR, we're delighted the board found a way to avoid giving the coveted front row center seat to FOX. No doubt our pressure made a huge difference....

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 3:21 PM

@Lynna:

No word on who got the seat yet?

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | August 2, 2010 3:23 PM

The Paparazzi are exempt because they target what can loosely be described as public figures. Public figures have less of a privacy defense to exercise in the first place.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 3:25 PM

Some times I think if I had the cash I'd have my breasts removed and all signs of gender erased from my face. I wish there was a non-gendered way to exist in the world. I truly hate being female. I know I know... that's a bad thing to say. But it's how I felt from the second I realized that's what I was instead of who I thought I was.

It's done nothing but bring trouble into my life.

I do hate it whether it's wrong or right to though, it is true. I spent years in my teens eradicating second sex characteristics with diet. I guess not much has changed. I wish I could just be seen as myself and not have to live in fear because of it.

I totally understand why some women choose to wear burqas though :/ I used to dress like I was in a cult on top of the not eating. Layers of sweaters, floor length skirts, opaque tights, no makeup. It worked, but it'd get me lots of shit these days.

No way to make oneself comfortable in the world it seems some times. I can't get around being in places where I might be filmed. I'd have to give up doing the things I like.

But if anyone pulls my top down I'm going to shoot them in the fucking head.

That will at least be a video I wouldn't be ashamed to have circulating of myself.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 3:27 PM

Did Michelangelo hide an image of a brainstem in the Sistine Chapel fresco?

Michelangelo, the 16th century master painter and accomplished anatomist, appears to have hidden an image of the brainstem and spinal cord in a depiction of God in the Sistine Chapel’s ceiling, a new study by Johns Hopkins researchers reports. These findings by a neurosurgeon and a medical illustrator, published in the May 2010 edition of Neurosurgery, may explain long controversial and unusual features of one of the frescoes’ figures....

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 3:30 PM

but it still felt good to say that.

Some times it would be nice to have some kind of control or power over what happens to me. Even if it's just for pretend.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 2, 2010 3:37 PM

Ol'Greg
I've tried hiding. It just doesn't work. I mentioned it on the Modesty thread. If you try to dress down and hide (but still go in public), there will be those who view that as an advantage because you must be "homely and desperate for attention." You'd have to disfigure yourself, and even then who knows.

There are good people out there. I've had folks step in for me before. Total strangers, even. The important thing is to raise consciousness of it. No, having a stranger tell some asshole to back off doesn't negate what the asshole did, but it does give a little boost to humanity. If we can encourage more folks to be aware of these situations and to speak up when they see it happen, it'll make our lives better.

(NOTE: This is not to say we can't handle ourselves. But, frankly, it's a lot more effective to tell someone to piss off if someone--especially an objective bystander--backs you up.)

Posted by: Dania | August 2, 2010 3:45 PM

Best wishes to Bride of Shrek. Hope all goes well.

-----

Despite having spent most of today on a beach lying in the sun, swimming, and photographing seagulls, this:

Thunderstorm with strong rain.

... made me jealous. Because I'm weird like that.

ground chicken/turkey may not even be available anywhere in Europe.

I think it's known as asphalt and is used to build roads.

LOL! :D

(I mean it. I actually did laugh out loud.)

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | August 2, 2010 3:52 PM

you see, most french onion soups have wine in it.

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 4:03 PM

But it's just annoying to me that you are saying you're not willing to post things because some one might call you a rape apologist

I wasn't talking about myself, sorry if #369 gave that impression. And please let's not get into an argument now about when it's appropriate to butt in on someone else's behalf :P

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 4:05 PM

Peace Windy, I did actually think you were talking about yourself. But I really didn't mean to give you that much shit anyway.

Posted by: A. Noyd | August 2, 2010 4:57 PM

Feynmaniac (#353)

He never states what Dawkins' arguments are and why they are demonstrably false.

This drives me up the fucking wall. I'm currently getting the same bullshit from a number of militant fence-straddlers in the thread for today's XKCD (on the XKCD forums, not here).

~*~*~*~*~*~

David Marjanović (#401)

No extra program is needed. WinXP does it all on its own. Microsoft knows how to keep a monopoly.

You sure that's the case for XP and Khmer? I don't have an XP machine handy to double check, but the sites explaining the setup for the extra program say something about Khmer not being one of the input options for XP.

Posted by: broboxley OT | August 2, 2010 5:15 PM

someone looking for halal french onion soup?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4azfzNZVmqE
it looks like it would work

Posted by: David Marjanović | August 2, 2010 5:37 PM

A new species of "mongoose" has been discovered in Madagascar. It is the closest known relative of a species described in 1839.

Just watched parts of The Rainmaker. Haven't seen a better argument for universal healthcare in a long time...

Jules, good on you for dumping that guy. Maybe you should altogether move to a place with less creepy people outside your front door... :-S

Ewan R, congratulations!!!

ground chicken/turkey may not even be available anywhere in Europe.

I think it's known as asphalt and is used to build roads.

*immature giggle*

Day saved.

It certainly made me more diligent about my calcium intake! Don't wanna go that way, no sirree!

Osteoporosis can be a real pain in the... heels. My grandmother once managed to break one of hers.

you see, most french onion soups have wine in it. It's part of the recipe. Therefore, most french onion soup "the way it is", has wine in it

Wouldn't surprise me (I've never actually read a recipe), except that I think I'd have tasted the wine. I seem to be good at detecting wine in soups in general.

Interesting, that the alcohol doesn't boil out. I always figured it did, since the food doesn't have the smell or taste of the actual alcohol

But then, even malinówka doesn't, and it has how much, 35 % alcohol?

(Unless the bitterness itself is the alcohol. But I'd have expected it to burn in the throat, and to have the usual smell of alcohol of course. Seriously. For crying out loud. Beer smells of alcohol as obviously as does the 60 % stuff used as a washing liquid in chemistry labs or the 70 % one for sterilizing the equipment of molecular biology labs.)

I'm impressed that so little of the alcohol boils away, but I'm not surprised not all of it does. Alcohol and water stick together very well; it isn't possible to distill alcohol to more than 96 %, because that mixture consists of balls formed by a water molecule surrounded by ethanol molecules, and each of those balls evaporates and condenses as a unit. Absolute alcohol is made by putting stuff in to which the water sticks even more strongly.

You sure that's the case for XP and Khmer?

Good question. It's not among the languages that are available by default (and those include Mapu{d|z}ungun, Mohawk, and Irish but not Scottish Gaelic...). However, with (apparently) a single click you can "install files for languages with complex characters and right-to-left direction (including Thai)", and with another you can "install files for East Asian languages". Khmer ought to be among the first of these options.

Does anyone have a good leek recipe.

Without watching the video – standard vegetable soup contains carrots and leek.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 5:45 PM

Penn & Teller take on the bullshit factor in the Boy Scouts. The video includes Penn & Teller spotlighting the mormon Prophet Profit, Thomas Monson, unwittingly shooting himself in the foot with a quote about combining the Aaronic moronic priesthood with Scouting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BmEWGUWloo

Most of the video is about the essential part that God plays in throwing gays and atheists out of the Boy Scouts.

"The Boy Scouts were essentially kidnapped by the religious right, and most especially by the mormons."

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 2, 2010 6:10 PM

Jules:

Caine's onion soup and ODS's bread were both delicious. I and my family thank you.

Awe, awesome! Didja make the bread w/ black & tan or did you use a stout?

Rey Fox:

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Futurama on the endless thread. It was easily the best one all season.

While last week's was really sweet (I still like the Leela/Fry dynamic, dammit), I think the one from the week before was way better (Bender's search for Inspector #5). I've always loved Hermes, but now I love him even more!

IMHO, that's why I've always loved Futurama and felt 'meh' about the Simpsons-- Futurama always had the capacity to be touching* and intelligent, whereas the Simpsons is occassionally funny and nothing else.

*Yes, I cry every time I see that god damned episode w/ Fry's dog.

Posted by: windy | August 2, 2010 6:27 PM

He was decent at convincing me that it was sexually empowering. After a few years and several shows where I walked away feeling squicky (not to mention stories I alluded to before wherein he would pull up my skirt/down my shirt in front of people because I'd "done it onstage" myself)

Whoa... Good riddance to him.

Posted by: Weed Monkey | August 2, 2010 6:34 PM

Oh crap, Jurassic Bark got mentioned in the xkcd thread in less than 20 comments! :(

... Then the discussion drifts to anime. *sigh* I'm so totally done with that.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 2, 2010 6:43 PM

David M:

You need to watch more of Thuh Simpseeehns.

Pfffffft. I grew up on the Simpsons and the show has totally lost it's luster for me.

Weed Monkey:

... Then the discussion drifts to anime. *sigh* I'm so totally done with that.

Absolutely agreed.

The thing is, there is anime out there that I like*, but it's very fucking few and far between. I don't think I've seen anything worth wasting my time on in the past six years.

*I am extremely picky about movies and TV to the point where it annoys the crap out of everyone around me. Oh well.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 6:52 PM

Feynmaniac @460, I don't think it's a waste of time to argue with people like Gutting when they get their negative-knowledge printed in the New York Times. If we don't counter Gutting's points, others will give him more credence than he deserves just because his poorly-reasoned essay appears in the NYT, and because he's a Professor (I note that Gutting is not even a Professional Poopyhead).

I have a big apology to make, I didn't look carefully at the reprint of Gary Gutting's essay on the blog Musings of a Pertinacious Papist. The blog is written by Philip Blosser, and Mr. Blosser was quoting Gutting. Blosser is a Professor of Philosophy at Metro Detroit, in Michigan. He has been blogging about Catholic issues since 2004. Blosser was involved in the Manhattan Declaration, and is a friend of Robert P. George, and he buys into (and spreads) George's supernaturalist explanation of anti-gay platforms. You can see why I get these guys confused.

Blosser sometimes writes for The Cardinal Ratzinger Fan Club. He also writes for the New Oxford Review, and for multiple Catholic websites and publications.

To round out the discussion, here's a blog post by Blosser that quotes Robert P. George admiringly. Excerpt:

37th Anniversary of legalized baby killing ... and Robert George says he's "moderately pro-choice"!!
     In remembrance of National Right To Life Day, celebrated every January 22nd on the annual anniversary of the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, Roe vs. Wade (1973), and in honor of the tens thousands of protesters who annually drive to Washington, D.C., to march from the Washington Monument to the Supreme Court, lobby senators, and get themselves ignored by the media in favor of the eight or nine abortion-rights activists who manage to come out and get themselves interviewed on national television, it seemed only decent and proper to come up with a "thought for the day" of some kind before stepping on the bus for D.C. tomorrow morning. Accordingly, I've retrieved from my files the following annual quotation from Princeton professor, Robert P. George:

I am personally opposed to killing abortionists. However, inasmuch as my personal opposition to this practice is rooted in sectarian (Catholic) religious belief in the sanctity of human life, I am unwilling to impose it on others who may, as a matter of conscience, take a different view. Of course, I am entirely in favor of policies aimed at removing the root causes of violence against abortionists. Indeed, I would go as far as supporting mandatory one-week waiting periods, and even non-judgmental counseling, for people who are contemplating the choice of killing an abortionist. I believe in policies that reduce the urgent need some people feel to kill abortionists while, at the same time, respecting the rights of conscience of my fellow citizens who believe that the killing of abortionists is sometimes a tragic necessity--not a good, but a lesser evil. In short, I am moderately "pro-choice."...

Blosser is equally pertinacious when it comes to homosexuality. He put up a blog post on April 24, 2010 in which he blamed the media for making all the Catholic priests look bad. The guy is wordy in the extreme, but here's a shortened excerpt from his diatribe:

One feels considerable sympathy for our priests, who doubtless feel besieged and confused by the anti-Catholic onslaught in the media and may prefer to ignore the issue in their homilies....
     The element of truth in the secular media's attack on the Catholic Church is specific: there have come to light, both in 2002 and more recently, cases of sexual abuse and subsequent cover-up by clergy stemming from some thirty or forty years ago. In some cases, the media are to be credited for their relentless investigation in uncovering the facts of these cases and in bringing them to light.
     Beyond this, however, the secular media have unfortunately been collectively complicit in ignoring or suppressing other facts attendant to these cases, and then enlisting the yield of distorted half-truths in the service of the subsequent feeding frenzy of unbridled indiscriminate criticism the Church.
     For one thing, because of the national media's own complicity in the mainstreaming of the gay and lesbian subculture within society, it has studiously avoided calling the sexual abuse what it is: the homosexual abuse of teenage young men. At the bottom of the liberal media's quest for moral high ground against the scandal of sexual sinners within the Church is the masked hypocrisy of its promotion of a sexually promiscuous ethos that would countenance such national organizations as the North American Man/Boy Love Association...
     If the media's concern here were really for abused children, then why their deafening silence about the rampant sexual abuse of children in the field of elementary and secondary school education where women rank prominently in administrative roles?

We recently talked about Anne Rice saying that she's quitting the church because she refuses to be anti-gay. Blosser takes her to task for this here.

Put simply, anyone who is Catholic and who obstinately rejects and disbelieves one article of faith does not have faith regarding what he accepts, but holds it merely as an opinion...

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 2, 2010 7:08 PM

Paul:

It broke continuity!

I know. I know.

But seeing Bender with those adorably huge eyes and a nippled beer bottle made my week. ;)

Posted by: David Marjanović | August 2, 2010 7:28 PM

I grew up on the Simpsons

So maybe you were too young to get some of the political and other allusions?

The Simpsons are packed full of them. In the movie, there's one second during which some written Russian is displayed. I forgot what it said :-( , but it was accurate Russian, said something, and was part of the joke. Gyeong Hwa, did you read the Korean next to it? Unfortunately I can't...

potato leek soup

Can be very good even if store-bought or eaten in a cafeteria.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 7:40 PM

So, the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) has come up with yet another reason to deny civil rights for gays. They are now saying that outlawing gay marriage will improve the economy. Unfortunately for NOM, the premise that gay marriage causes, or is a factor in, the breakdown of families remains unproven. But don't let a little thing like logic stop you from campaigning in Iowa against gay marriage:

There are taxpayer costs associated with the breakdown of the family, so overturning legalized same-sex marriage would go a long way to improve the nation’s sagging economy, according to Tamara Scott, one of several speakers at the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) rally at the state Capitol in Des Moines Sunday afternoon.
     NOM, a New Jersey-based anti-gay marriage organization, announced last year that it would launch a new initiative called The Reclaim Iowa Project, with the goal of getting a constitutional amendment before Iowa voters reversing the unanimous ruling of the Iowa Supreme Court that the state’s Defense of Marriage Act was unconstitutional. Sunday’s rally was part of a nationwide tour of 22 cities designed to build public opposition to same-sex marriage....

“It costs you, the taxpayer, as high as $280 billion a year for fragmented families, according to the Family Research Council,” Scott told the crowd, citing a study from the D.C.-based Christian political association from May 2009.
     “If we would correct the breakdown of the family by 1 percent, we could save the taxpayer $3 billion a year,” she said. “An easy fix and a better fix long term for our children… When the family is healthy, the community benefits. When the family is hurting, society will pay the cost one way or another. We can fix this economic downturn very easily by fixing some hearts.”

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 8:02 PM

@Lynna:

Wait... Homosexual marriage (the combination of two persons into a family) creates a fractured family?

Cognitive dissonance?

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 8:39 PM

Meh... don't let it stress you JeffD. I'm out of that thread too. Maybe I'll look through it later. But I feel I've put myself out there too much and its giving me the fear.

Besides my new phone came and now that I'm home I want to play with it.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 8:41 PM

Actually scratch that. I'll be busy tomorrow at work and not on too much. Ah... but even at that there's a limit to how much one can plunge themselves into certain things without doing damage.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 2, 2010 8:45 PM

I dunno PZ. It seems like there are some people there doing some real heavy lifting. I think you can afford an evening without me :P

/hubris

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 2, 2010 8:48 PM

PZ:
I love that you post on feminist topics, but the comments can get really scary really fast. I'm not even sure that I'm going to wade into that one.

Like the post, though.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 2, 2010 8:50 PM

Wait... Homosexual marriage (the combination of two persons into a family) creates a fractured family?

Ironically, the anti-gay marriage crowd are the ones who are always harping on "common sense" ...

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 2, 2010 8:55 PM

@Lynna:

But... the very definition of marriage... is MAKING a family! Argh!! LOGIC!! *facedesk*

Posted by: JeffreyD | August 2, 2010 9:03 PM

FYI for John Morales, you have done some heavy lifting on the Consent and the Two Checklist threads. I did not mean to lump you in with the turd brains in my post on the Checklist thread. Sure I missed others as well.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 2, 2010 9:04 PM

I Am Really PZ Myers!

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 2, 2010 9:25 PM

Rey:

And anyway, how about the Zager & Evans part of last week's episode?

Oh, I loved that!

Posted by: John Morales | August 2, 2010 10:04 PM

David,

Some of the T-shirts you saw me wearing on the dig were 15 years old.

Mine mostly don't even last a decade, but then, I don't have very many.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | August 2, 2010 10:12 PM

Night, Jeffrey!

I'm prolly off to bed soon, too, since I got to call someone a "dickbag" over on the lists thread.

Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD) | August 2, 2010 10:31 PM

I installed a hit tracker on my blog in case I end up getting sick of DM and decide to attempt to block him. Looking at the stats I noticed I kept getting hits from somewhere in Houston, the only returning visitor. It turns out that was me, though I live a couple states away. Weird.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 2, 2010 11:57 PM

I would like to say that many of the Pharyngula guys make me semi-hopeful for our species. Your willingness to engage the morons on the unnamed other threads is admirable. I have been prevented from dealing with those threads by having to do child-transportation-to-camp duties and then today having to harangue my insurance company to figure out why our COBRA payments did not seem to have reinstated our health insurance (I was finally successful with this, but it took several hours). Plus if I dealt with them my head might explode.

Does anyone have Bride of Shrek's mailing address for a Pharyngula package of squidly comfort? Email me offlist at mattir 17 at gmail etc. I promise not to send a moribund squid penis, FWIW.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 3, 2010 12:31 AM

What the fucking fuck did I just look at MATTIR!?

Damn.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 3, 2010 12:40 AM

I'm seriously considering buying some of his work. It's just... got... something.

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy | August 3, 2010 1:06 AM

"Your willingness to engage the morons on the unnamed other threads is admirable."

Thanks. I said my piece, and now I'm pretty much out of there. My patience and SIWOTI are weak.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 3, 2010 2:16 AM

Just reading over the feminism thread. You guys sure weren't kidding about the asshats on there.

Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM | August 3, 2010 2:38 AM

Mattir, I am going to curl in to a ball and weep silently while I have nightmares.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | August 3, 2010 2:58 AM

The whole thing was rather disappointing and disturbing and I wish the site had stuck to science and beating creationists with verbal and logical 2x4s.

If this were a thoroughly apolitical blog, I could understand the sentiment, but it's not.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 3, 2010 3:20 AM

McCthulhu,
If you don't like the feminist threads then avoid them and go on to other threads (like this one). Remember, this is PZ's blog and he can post what he wants. Sometimes he put up stuff that doesn't interest me, but I just move on to other threads. Happy commenting! :)

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 3, 2010 3:41 AM

Erm, I'll just be over here away from the front lines, handing out soup and cookies.

I don't see the compatibility of soup and cookies together. Unless we're giving blood, how can soup and cookies be in the same meal? lol

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 3, 2010 4:59 AM

While we're on the topic of feminism, here's a video of Joss Whedon talking about how he always gets asked why he writes strong women characters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYaczoJMRhs

Why are you even asking me this?! This is like interview number 50 in a row. How is it possible that this is even a question? Honestly, seriously, why are you -- why did you write that down? Why do you -- Why aren’t you asking a hundred other guys why they don’t write strong women characters?

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | August 3, 2010 6:04 AM

Ugh... I only just caught up with the new feminism thread (which has nearly 500 comments already). As other people have observed, it's really depressing that there are so many clueless sexist idiots coming out of the woodwork. :-(

Ol'Greg, SC, John Morales, Cerberus and Jadehawk deserve a lot of credit for their work on those threads. I posted quite a bit on the previous one, but it gets tiresome having to repeat the same argument again and again and again to people who just don't listen.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 3, 2010 6:29 AM

Wow. How big a jerk do you have to be to post this:

I am, however, a selfish asshole at heart, and I before I put a lick of effort into something, my question is "What do I have to gain?" I don't give a fuck about your problems or anyone else's, really.

on a thread about feminism?

Posted by: Rorschach | August 3, 2010 6:52 AM

I am, however, a selfish asshole at heart, and I before I put a lick of effort into something, my question is "What do I have to gain?" I don't give a fuck about your problems or anyone else's, really.

Yeah, that's really charming.
Btw, John Morales, I wasn't talking about you upthread, I thought that would have been obvious...

The religious rights often try to shame us with the fact that some of us sleep with a lot men. They use this against us all the time, in the same way that anti-feminist will use it against women.

Anti-feminist ? Bigots rather.

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | August 3, 2010 7:23 AM

Pikachu, it's a choice. Soup or cookies, depending on what you want. Or both if you wish. They're all virtual, so no fat or carbs yet miraculously rich and delicious.

Posted by: echidna | August 3, 2010 7:36 AM

*hugs* BoSOM

Posted by: Rorschach | August 3, 2010 7:47 AM

PZ, I posted on some bits of your Vancouver talk !

:P

Same, it's not worth it. Those who know about the subject more than I could express whatever sentiments I have far more cogently, and I don't run the risk of being caught in the crossfire or being infuriated by bigots.

Yep.

Posted by: John Morales | August 3, 2010 8:11 AM

Kevin, I was never a creationist, but after many an encounter with them I think many of them think the very idea is... idiotic!

<stupid mode=IDiot>

After all, it's as self-evident that 'kinds' can develop variety, but will always remain kinds.

Isn't it patently ludicrous to "theorise" that, given long enough, cats stranded on some island will grow wings and become cat-birds? Ha!!Q!

Or perhaps the cat will mount a bird (or a bird a cat) and that's how it happens? Laughable!!!!!!!!!

Now, baraminology, yeah — that is scientific! If only these "scientists" would have the honesty to leave their lucrative dogma, then they'd begin to make progress.

</stupid>

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | August 3, 2010 9:00 AM

The thing is, there is anime out there that I like*, but it's very fucking few and far between. I don't think I've seen anything worth wasting my time on in the past six years.

If you like animation you must see Sita Sings The Blues, released 2009. Someone gave me a copy last week. I'd never heard of it before then. Made, virtually single-handedly, by an USAnienne, it's based on the Sanskrit epic, The Ramayana (evil king of Sri Lanka kidnaps Sita, wife of Rama, Monkey god Hanuman gets her back, Rama doubts her fidelity).
Beautiful animation, and very funny.

It's downloadable for free here (recommended), or you can watch it all here on YouTube, in ten chunks.

It really annoyed Hindu fundamentalists, which is another reason to watch it :)

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 3, 2010 9:35 AM

@KOPD:

I gave a good hypothetical in an argument this morning - two groups of a single species gets separated by a wildfire end up living in different areas where they can only survive if they meet the standards for survival in those areas. It's happened, it's simple adaptation. The question I asked was "what prevents these two new species (cause they would be different species) from becoming even further adapted and changed by their environment?"

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | August 3, 2010 9:51 AM

The Benny Hinn video reminded my of Todd Bentley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Rw6TCiUO8

This fraud tried to heal a guy with stage IV metastatic colon cancer by kicking him in the gut. Hard to watch. Makes you wish Bentley got testicular cancer.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | August 3, 2010 10:56 AM

Rachel Maddow talks about "Scaring white people for fun an profit."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#38530884

Apparently conservative news outlets are repeating a fake story about Mexican drug cartels having taken over two ranches near Laredo, Texas. Trouble is, the story is false.

Rachel goes on to show John McCain and Senator Kyl repeating false claims of rising violent and property crime rates. All of those crime rates have gone down, not up.

Running on an anti-immigrant platform is their choice, but do they get to do so based on pseudo-facts? Repealing the 14th Amendment is an idea being floated by Republicans, an idea based on false stories, and based on statistics that are actually the opposite of the "getting worse" meme.

Posted by: MsAnnThrope | August 3, 2010 11:27 AM

I'm not sure I'm not going to be welcome here- it seems like a bit of a "regulars" club, but I have a word for Cerberus.

I don't think (or hope maybe) anybody was deliberatly trying to discredit you or accuse you of lying, but a point is that if you voluntarily put your description of an assault on a blog comment (a blog aimed at skeptics, amongst others) you should accept that it might be questioned. So much of what is discussed at Pharyngula is about not taking things at face value, as harsh as it can be, nothing is above this- wasn't that the point of the vegan's who eat fish thread, nothing is taboo? Although, ofcourse, a lot of the posts were incredibly insensitive, I am not excusing that.

Your withdrawal from the discussion was noticeable and quite disturbing, I hope you have recovered.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | August 3, 2010 12:11 PM

Honestly I've never known my male bosses not to have kids. They usually have stay at home wives too. But honestly I think that poster was saying damned near anything to pretend there is no such thing as male privilege. IIRC their argument went something like "It's not sexism it's discrimination against who is different and it is a MALE culture so no kids... but that's not sexism..."

But I gotta admit I skimmed it because I was having too much trouble understanding what they were even saying.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | August 3, 2010 12:15 PM

Fucking hell, what's been going on around here lately? I've tagged in on the "My manhood means I understand being a woman better than you do" thread, so anyone who's ready to take a rest, feel free.

BoS, I'm sorry that you have to go through this. Yeah, that's right, I'm sorry. If anyone doesn't like that phrase, tough. It describes an emotion of sorrow that is distinct from the "it's my fault" sentiment.

Also good wishes going out to everyone who is dealing with crap of some kind or other right now.

Ben, thanks for the link. I've been looking for video/audio of it since I saw the concert.

Just got back from the marathon annual trip to see family. Put almost 3000 miles on the car. Left the cat, last seen in a state of severely bad health, for boarding at the veterinarian's hospital (the continuing stoooory of a quack who's gone to the dogs...). Got her back today, and she's pissed off at us as usual when we leave her for awhile. She's still on antibiotics for the UTI and on two medications to stimulate her appetite, didn't really gain any weight back while she was there, and we'll have to start giving her fluid injections once a week or so. But she was still alive when we came back, which was almost more than we were hoping for.

Posted by: Paul | August 3, 2010 12:33 PM

Zoidberg Jesus

"I'm Santa!"

"No, I'm Santa!"

"And I'm his friend, Jesus!"
</Spartacus Scene>

Best scene evar.

Posted by: JeffreyD | August 3, 2010 1:11 PM

Both the GGW and the Two Checklists threads are worth the reading. No, not because of the majority of the posts. Many of them are crap and I quickly learned which names indicated posts that should be skipped. To me, ymmv, the worth in them is that they cause me to continue to examine my own perceptions, thoughts and beliefs. I like to think I am an enlightened person, but I do have a lot of stuff in the unclaimed baggage room of my 1950's raising. I learn from these types of threads. I think about them. It is worth the effort just to change me even if it will not change the people who just don't care to adapt their world view.

Contributing to these threads? Well, certainly not for all. My small contributions just ended being vents of rage - useful to me, but not to anyone else. I have read many thoughtful posts and there are some good questions and points from the, for want of a better description, other side.

I hope I keep learning. I plan to keep keep learning and changing until I am were I wish to be, inside and out. I want to be a better father, husband, friend, boss, person - not a bad plan for the second half of my life.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | August 3, 2010 1:40 PM

Oh, I left something off my New Futurama bit:

Sometimes Fri and Leela are a focus, and it's handled well. Like the Time Travel one (Incidentally, Professor Farnsworth kicking the Hitler Time Travel exemption out the window was awesome).

@Carlie: Thanks, and good luck with that. I just can't make myself do it today, so I'm going to play some Company of Heroes. Not sure whether or not I like it, but it's nice to have an RTS I can play with a friend without the hamster that runs on a wheel to provide RAM for the computer crying himself to death.

Posted by: Weed Monkey | August 3, 2010 2:23 PM

Best wishes BoS! And Rorschach, I'm just so sorry.

This is the first time I've ever seen autotune used for good.

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | August 3, 2010 2:59 PM

@Mattir:

Do we have a Truth Machine signal? Like the Bat Signal?

Posted by: MrFire | August 3, 2010 3:11 PM

Quick, someone design an appropriate logo and put it on the Facebook Endless Thread page.

Wait, what? Is truth machine lurking somewhere amongst the Facebook Endless Thread Members?

That terrifies me.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 3, 2010 3:19 PM

Not as far as I know. I'd be pretty terrified as well. But we should all be aware that TM is lurking, taking down imprecise language and poor logic wherever they may be. Sort of like the Undertoad in World According to Garp.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 3, 2010 3:31 PM

"Gays on a Train!"

*falls over laughing* Oh my, the tragedy! This will definitely be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 3, 2010 3:35 PM

I have a feeling the Family Research Council pulled that statistic out of their asses -- another way to make the LGBT community look even more scary.

Just like how they say scientists are millionaires. It's meant to isolate them from the general public (while ignoring the fact that they [FRC] get millions to fund their bullshit). But since I'm gay and working on my way to be scientist, I'll be waiting for my big million dollar check to come in the mail. Any time now. . .lol

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 3, 2010 3:54 PM

So, my mom brought my 15-year-old cousin from Michigan back with her this past week to stay with us for a while. He's a great kid and has always been one of my favorite cousins (he's a redhead, too). His father (and mom to a certain degree) is an extremely fundamentalist evangelical reactionary. This kid is one of those kids who argues with his science teacher about evolution and global warming. It makes me insane. He started out just fine, but he's got these right-wing talking-points drilled into his head--and he's fucking 15!

Anyway, I want to come out as atheist to him so that he can relate atheism with his hip* older cousin instead of with demons of the left-wing elitist conspiracy to turn everyone gay and force them to have/perform abortions.**

Any advice on this? I don't want to scare him off, either.

*Using that word has proven me to be the opposite. However, he still looks up to me, despite my not being that cool.

**Flies with honey. Once we get him lured in, then we'll turn him into a gay abortionist.

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) | August 3, 2010 3:58 PM

Jules, I think the best way is to casual come out.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 3, 2010 4:08 PM

Birger, I posted that link last night.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | August 3, 2010 4:13 PM

Good luck BoS!
Looked at the privilige thread. What a fucking quagmire. I know that sexism lurks in my brain, just as I know that racism is festering down there somewhere. I just try to recognise these horrors when they slither up through the murk and deny them expression.
Years ago, when I was even more naive about sexism than I am now I went with Miss M to a consultation with her gynacologist. I was present because the doctor had virtually insisted. To my utter amazement (and Miss M's fury) he asked ME for consent for the procedure "because she is your wife". This episode still makes me angry nearly 40 years on, but I hope it made more aware of the way that women are treated, but I'm not a woman, so I don't know and without that knowledge I'm keeping my cowardly, sexist head below the parapet.

Complete change of subject - was stunned by this

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy | August 3, 2010 4:18 PM

"despite my not being that cool."

You've mentioned having tattoos before; that makes you cool. The kid will have to learn some day that cool tattooed chicks, for the most part, are not right-wingers and have little use for biblical authority.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 3, 2010 4:32 PM

Excellent suggestions, guys. I'd like to hit him with the first big question that threw things way off for me: light years. When we were in physics class in high school (small fundamentalist school), we discussed how many light years away the stars were. I asked how it was possible for the earth to only be 6,000 years old. It was pretty much over for me at that point.

Luckily, I live in a town with some serious NASA roots. I can take him to the space center. If he starts to twitch at the "billions of years" the way some fundies do, maybe we can talk through it.

I think he might be the young one I've been waiting for to pass my Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy along to.

Oh, and, Rey, thanks for calling me cool :)

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 3, 2010 4:44 PM

Gyeong @524

Yeah, in many ways, to the patriarchy, gay men are essentially in the same category as straight women and that's the basis of a lot of the antagonism towards them and why the bigots seem to have no separation between gay man and transwoman. They hate gay men for "becoming a lower caste voluntarily" and destroying a lot of patriarchal lies about "natural" gender roles. And they fear them because they fear that they could be targeted and treated by a gay man like they personally treat and view straight women (and to be fair, lesbians as well, since they don't believe lesbians really exist) or that they could lose their straight male privilege at any time by not living up to said gender roles.

Ironically enough to the "nuh uh, privilege isn't real" brigade of unending stupid, this completely fearful and anxious way of living one's life is one of the bigger ways "Sexism hurts men too", but they're too busy falling for the divide and conquer anxiety to see that.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 3, 2010 4:54 PM

it's ---> its

Oops.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 3, 2010 4:56 PM

Jules:

I think he might be the young one I've been waiting for to pass my Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy along to.

Always a good thing. You might want to get him The Science of Discworldbooks too. Entertaining and informative. They're a tad out of date, but the basic info is solid.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 3, 2010 5:03 PM

Mattir
Good points. It might be best to approach it not as a reason he has to give up xianity, but just as something he needs to thoroughly understand because it's prevalent. I bet that the more he gets into, the more he'll appreciate it. That's certainly what happened for me.

MrFire
I definitely agree that the Socratic method is where it's at. I want him to think for himself, not simply replace his father as an authority. Put up as a contrast to his father's demanding, controlling behavior, I bet having someone actually talk through things with him (letting him do a fair share of the talking) will be like a breath of fresh air.

Posted by: David Marjanović | August 3, 2010 5:05 PM

Heh. Almost no traffic in this thread... and 100 comments in the beard thread alone... :-D

Preserving endangered species – of gut microbes. In human guts.

Homer Simpson's new bumper sticker: "If you can read this, you're almost as smart as my baby".

I would like to say that many of the Pharyngula guys make me semi-hopeful for our species. Your willingness to engage the morons on the unnamed other threads is admirable.

While this does put a smile in my face, I must caution that, for instance, the Hittite empire had abolished the death penalty for almost all offenses (even murder toward the end) and had a sort of constitution court (the assembly of nobles) that was, at least in theory, capable of sentencing the Great King to death for usurpation. Then the Bronze Age ended, and the empire was blasted off the map "as if it had never been", to cite a contemporary Egyptian source slightly out of context. Progress is not inevitable, at least not over a timescale of a few millennia.

The whole thing was rather disappointing and disturbing and I wish the site had stuck to science and beating creationists with verbal and logical 2x4s.

Ignorance commonly comes in a package. There's a large overlap between creationists and extreme misogynists, you know, those with religious motivations.

I don't think you can talk about one for long without talking about the other.

Wow. How big a jerk do you have to be to post this:

He's actually doing us a service. He's being honest, and he tells us how we can argue him, rationally, into not acting like the asshole he is. I'll try if nobody else hasn't done it yet.

(Tomorrow, that is. Today I had to give up after reading to comment 404. I urgently need to go to bed. My comment is 631, the erratum is 634...)

I don't even try to post on the feminism threads. I realize the honking idiots are going to continue being honking idiots,

Pessimist :-)

Check out comment 356. It could be sarcastic, but I don't think it is.

nothing I say wouldn't be a repeat of what someone else said,

So? Sometimes the obvious does need to be stated 10 times. Perhaps even in different words.

and I couldn't be any better than Cerberus.

Didn't we just talk about the Michael Jackson zombie? Nobody can dance like Michael Jackson, yet he still needed backstage dancers.

Besides, it's not like there's no fun to be had on that thread. Look at this quote from comment 157 (quote within quote marked by me):

7. Sanctioning Victimhood

I'm pretty sure this is a Swedish death metal band, I think I have one of their CD's

If this doesn't cheer you up... :-)

Jules, show him stalactites and stalagmites and show him how incredibly slowly they grow.

I don't know what kind of geology you have available... if you have any cyclic stuff, that would be most impressive. Like evidence of the sea coming and going several times, not just once like the Bible has it.

Where are you?

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | August 3, 2010 5:13 PM

I must caution that, for instance, the Hittite empire had abolished the death penalty for almost all offenses (even murder toward the end) and had a sort of constitution court (the assembly of nobles) that was, at least in theory, capable of sentencing the Great King to death for usurpation. Then the Bronze Age ended, and the empire was blasted off the map "as if it had never been", to cite a contemporary Egyptian source slightly out of context. Progress is not inevitable, at least not over a timescale of a few millennia.

See, that's the real reason I come here. Downers I just can't get anywhere else.

Me, I keep sticking my head into that thread, shaking it, and walking out...

I will be absolutely no help, here. As in a great many situations, regrettably. My apologies. I have certain limitations.

... in other news/a propos of nothing here, I've semi-seriously borked my keystone Debian system. If anyone needs me, I'll be swearing at the grub development team...

Like, probably, for about the next three days.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | August 3, 2010 5:15 PM

David M
I'm in the Southeastern US. The Tennessee Valley, to be more specific. Not sure what we've got here, but I do know we have a nice mountain or two to hang out on.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 3, 2010 5:19 PM

Addendum to myself @588

I will also note in unfortunate immediate flouncing of my last paragraph, that to the "skeptics" who were just being "intellectually rigorous", I reiterated the facts of the case several times to an audience openly invested in dismissing it wholesale and having little interest in basic reading comprehension in what I was writing, because they were already invested in one outcome. I did this despite the fact that a) I was beyond pissed at the person involved, b) I was already flashbacking and emotionally vulnerable and a little bit hurting, and c) I had no reason to defend it, I know it happened, because it happened to me and no armchair debate club fuck was going to change that.

I'll note that many people trying to erase that blindingly obvious moment of open misogyny seem to forget that I stayed in it as long as I could and reiterated the facts of the case whereas the side that sees feminists as "overreacting harpies" were the ones oblivious to facts about sociology and attempts to relate reality, both personal and sociological.

Overall, another way the "sexists are the real skeptics" bullshit was highly annoying, because like with all minority personal narratives of what they physically lived through (see wingnut responses to Sherrod's brother's death by mob), one side relates reality and facts while the other relates how "super-rational" they are by ignoring reality.

That's not skeptical, that's being James Watts or one of the other climate denialists or one of the creationist "evolution skeptics". An idiot posing as a smart person.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 3, 2010 5:27 PM

Kevin @538

And I'm not as good at saying things as a lot of others. People like Melissa McEwan, Julia Serano, Audrey Lorde, etc...

The trick is not to worry about "how well" you are saying something and just speak truth to power. The important thing is to speak up for what you believe, all else is elementary and you'll find inexplicably that people will appreciate it no matter how it comes out. Look at me, I actually suck at a lot of debate and interpersonal communication, but people seem to weirdly appreciate my rantings and ramblings.

In short, just be you. It's all you can ever do.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage | August 3, 2010 5:28 PM

In other words... pipe down there Monsantoman. You know you're corporate.

I'm also corporate. :-þ

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | August 3, 2010 5:34 PM

Lately, all threads about women's rights seem to attract a particularly clueless and callous brand of idiot, and in greater numbers than any other issue. Just imagine if the same thing happened on any other topic: say, on a post about world hunger...

Professor Myers: There is a humanitarian crisis in country X, and thousands of chilren are dying every day from malnutrition. Please donate money.

Idiot #1: Yeah, sure, that's bad and everything... but when I was dining at an Italian restaurant last night, the waiter forgot my garlic bread! AND he didn't put any ice in my gin and tonic! Why aren't you talking about MY problems? Look at meeeeee!!!!

Idiot #2: They were asking for it. They shouldn't be so foolish as to live in a poor country, after all. If they don't have enough to eat, they have only themselves to blame.

Idiot #3: They're poorer than me because they're naturally inferior. After all, I'm a member of MENSA and have a really high IQ, which proves that I'm better than them. They aren't capable of True Sceptical Logical Rational Thinking^TM like me.

Everyone would view the above arguments as self-evidently stupid. So why do similar arguments keep getting made in every thread that deals with gender discrimination or violence towards women?

I used to be clueless about the realities of sexism. I also used to be a pro-lifer and idiotic religious conservative, years back, and I had some profoundly misinformed views. But I hope I would never, even then, have made arguments that were so transparently stupid and offensive. (And, indeed, all too many the stupid and offensive sexist remarks come from men who describe themselves as atheists and sceptics.)

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | August 3, 2010 5:38 PM

... Yeah, sure, that's bad and everything... but when I was dining at an Italian restaurant last night, the waiter forgot my garlic bread! AND he didn't put any ice in my gin and tonic! Why aren't you talking about MY problems? Look at meeeeee!!!!

Sometimes, Walton, you're just awesome.

Posted by: David Marjanović | August 3, 2010 5:42 PM

You know, my niece came out as a Buddhist-atheist. I'm not sure what to make of it because being atheist negates being a Buddhist. o_O

Technically it doesn't. It requires believing in supernatural stuff like souls that can be reborn – but it doesn't require any gods, even though hundreds of millions of Buddhists out there worship tons of them.

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | August 3, 2010 5:43 PM

@Gyeong - Whether atheism is inconsistent with Buddhism depends on what type of Buddhist one is. Some strains are pretty theistic, others really aren't.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 3, 2010 5:46 PM

PZ:

people who only comment on feminist issues.

^This. I notice a lot of the same names in any feminist thread; said names don't ever seem to get worked up about anything else enough to comment.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 3, 2010 5:52 PM

PZ @604

A lot of openly sexist men (often terming themselves as "anti-PC warriors" or "Men's Rights Activists") actually sit and wait for feminist threads to troll or try and derail every conversation on feminist blogs into the same old shit in order to get a hard-on bullying women, "fight the castrating bitches" of the feminist movement, and otherwise attempt to derail positive action against oppression or other female investment in changing the status quo (cause things like that caused the bitch to leave me).

It's a common infestation and a lot of it is probably because derailing is a great way to preserve the status quo and as ads trying to target themselves to "men's men" show, there's a lot of masculinity invested in the mistreatment of women, especially uppity women.

But yeah, it means every feminist thread pretty much anywhere that gets more than 10 unique comments will attract a troll (either residential or just visiting) willing to flying monkey the conversation away from anywhere useful.

The slightly uplifting reality is that sometimes this very flying monkey response provides a very clear illustration of concepts that women are talking about that seem initially foreign to men owing to male privilege.

The slightly sad reality, is that sometimes the men still can't see how this illustrates the point.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | August 3, 2010 5:52 PM

Jules:

Yeep. I didn't realize just how big the Tennessee Valley was. I thought it was pretty much coterminous with the Smokies.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | August 3, 2010 5:56 PM

Sometimes, Walton, you're just awesome.

*blushes modestly*

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | August 3, 2010 5:56 PM

Gyeong Hwa:

I have a feeling though that her designation as a Buddhist stems from more cultural reasons, since the Buddhist temple are important cultural, social, and political places for the Khmer community.

That's not much different from what Dawkins' calls a cultural christian then. One can be an atheist and a cultural christian, if that's important to a person. It wouldn't work for me, but it does work for others.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | August 3, 2010 5:58 PM

Gyeong-

It might also be an explanation of culture.

I.e. There are Jewish Atheists out there, because they are culturally jewish, while being theologically non-believing.

There are also those who like Church cultures (I would ask why, but then I'm me) who might describe themselves in similar terms, such as a "Catholic atheist" being someone who goes to Mass for the community building and the pomp and circumstance, but who doesn't actually believe any of the horse-shit the priest is saying.

And there is also what others have said about Buddhism not needing any "Gods" per se, even with having a lot of woo elements like reincarnation or karma.

Posted by: David Marjanović | August 3, 2010 6:01 PM

What the fuck! Read this as long as it's still accessible! There's a salamander which has, at least as an embryo, algal endosymbionts!!!

And it's not some especially exotic species. It's the good old American laboratory salamander, Ambystoma maculatum (aka spotted salamander), for crying out loud. The algae, Oophila amblystomatis, were known to occur in the jelly part of the eggs and thought to provide extra oxygen, but in all those decades nobody had noticed they occur inside the cells, too.

...And inside the oviducts of adult females. What the fuck.

As you can see, I'm pretty much out of words.

======================

I'll need to look up the geology of the Tennessee valley. Probably none of it is exposed...

======================

Haven't had time to read the Hovind thread at all so far. :-(