…and this is a 
One of the more contemptible anti-gay activists is Reverend Scott Lively, a true liar for Jesus who considers it his sacred mission to rid the world of homosexuals. He was proud to have inspired the Ugandan death penalty for homosexuality law (although in the face of the outrage that generated, he backed off, claiming they should give them the choice of prison or gay conversion "therapy").
His other claim to fame is that he is a holocaust revisionist. He has written a book, The Pink Swastika, in which he claims that Hitler and his entire inner circle was gay, that the atrocities the Nazis committed were driven by the immoral impulses of the gay Nazi elite, and that the well-known anti-gay laws and mass murders of homosexuals in the Third Reich were just a cover, a distraction to conceal the fact that Nazis were all gay. Oh, and also that the reason they were murdered is that gays are intrinsically violent, anyway.
Lively is an evil little liar, so it was delightful to see him exposed on the Daily Show. This is one of the clearest illuminations of the insanity of these gay-hating evangelicals I've seen.
| The Daily Show With Jon Stewart | Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c | |||
| Gay Reichs | ||||
| ||||
The best moment was after Lively expounded on his ferocious gay Nazi theory and how the Nazi's public denunciation of gays was evidence that they were all secretly gay, the interviewer asks him, "That which you hate the most you secretly are?" Reverend Scott Lively sits there stunned for a moment before he can say, "I'm not gay."
I don't see how we can conclude that he's not, though, given the Christian logic he has so impeccably applied to the problem.
Comments
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
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July 29, 2010 10:44 AM
Huh. I was trying to quote this to comment on it, but my grammar checker keeps choking, fer some reason...
(/Sez you can't put 'Christian' and 'logic' next to each other. Ever.)
Posted by: irenedelse
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July 29, 2010 10:46 AM
The gays more savage than "natural men"? And here I thought it was the female of the species! Silly me.
Posted by: legistech
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July 29, 2010 10:48 AM
OT, but possibly good news. Though frankly, I think working towards completely secular schools is a better option.
atheist school in Britain
Posted by: mikerattlesnake
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July 29, 2010 10:49 AM
That is the most fantastic thing.
Posted by: daveau
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July 29, 2010 10:50 AM
"I'm not gay."
Or a nazi, presumably. Jason Jones pwned him.
Posted by: daveau
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July 29, 2010 10:54 AM
Living on left coast time, are we, Herr Professor?
Posted by: cousinavi
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July 29, 2010 10:54 AM
It's only a matter a time before someone catches this ignorant little turd in a hotel room with Ted Haggard, a bag of meth, three rent boys and naked posters of Larry Craig.
The meth is only to keep the rent boys calm while they undergo conversion therapy...which is the purpose of the naked Larry Craig pics (Aversion Conversion Therapy!)
What? Blowjobs? Don't be ridiculous! They can't be gay...they're Christians! And besides, it's only gay if you SUCK the cock. It's not gay if the rent boys, as part of their therapy, do it. It's like that time you were caught smoking, and your father made you smoke the whole pack.
I mean, it's either that or you'll have a bunch of Nazi rent boys. No one wants that.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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July 29, 2010 10:54 AM
So, most right-wing Christians in the US are secretly liberal, environmentalist, atheist women?
Anyways, Reverend Lively, thank you for playing "Are you intelligent enough to have a say in the affairs of your family, community, municipal, regional or federal government?" You lost the right to vote, lobby, or even speak to a group larger than three, but we have some nice parting gifts for you: a year's supply of drycleaning bags. They say they're not a toy, but who are 'they' to tell you what to do? Go nuts, and may selection work as it will.
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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July 29, 2010 10:55 AM
What I see from Lively is gay panic writ large. Almost certainly another George Rekers.
Posted by: Mr.Nerdz
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July 29, 2010 10:55 AM
Of course he isn't gay! All that praying and conversion therapy after the last man means that he *must* be completely heterosexual, no question about it!
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/p18Pg7Yco_YBSaCk6ZgOF2aBY8hbWSH.fw--#57bfb
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July 29, 2010 10:58 AM
Thank you Daily Show for exposing this perfidy! I'm...I'm...sputtering at the stupid...my brain may explode, when I finish laughing, of course.
Posted by: johnlil#0a224
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July 29, 2010 10:59 AM
As usual, Cousinavi beat me to it. Anybody this obsessed with gays is obviously a flamer himself. He'll get caught. They always get caught.
Then we'll get the song and dance about how he was simply "counseling" the six naked young men in his bed.
Posted by: Nepenthe
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July 29, 2010 11:00 AM
Wonderful video. I have a feeling that Scott Lively does this all to explain away why he spends all day looking at pictures of Germans in jackboots and no his hand is not down his trousers how dare you insinuate such a thing.
I've never liked the "you are what you hate most" thing though, because that means I'm secretly an olive. Or a jumping spider. Or some perverse combination of the two.
Posted by: t3knomanser
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July 29, 2010 11:00 AM
So Eva Braun was just Hitler's beard? Because the Fuerer of the fabulous Third Reich needed a beard, or else his gay elite would have... overthrown him for being gay, or something?
I think that what most people forget, is Hitler was a Christian. And let's be frank: he held closer to Biblical teachings than any modern Christian.
Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD)
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July 29, 2010 11:01 AM
Yeah, and the KKK are actually black under those hoods, I bet.Posted by: vbalbert
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July 29, 2010 11:02 AM
I saw this and all I could think was this was THE best interview that Jason Jones has ever done.
Posted by: maarten.jan
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July 29, 2010 11:05 AM
The moment in which he listed all those countries was brilliant. Too bad he let him get away with that.
Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY
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July 29, 2010 11:10 AM
Hitler's sexuality is still a mystery. By all accounts, he had great difficulty with, and discomfort around, women. Other than Eva Braun, his only known liason was with his niece, Geli, whom he (likely) had killed. There is some evidence that one or two of his elite inner circle were gay (Himmler springs to mind), but if Hitler ever found out, he would have had them executed. Hitler didn't like gays, liquor, or tobacco, but loved animals and was a vegetarian. I think we should imprison vegetarians, or at least not let them serve in the military. Clearly, vegetarians are JUST LIKE THE NAZIS.
Posted by: raven
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July 29, 2010 11:12 AM
The chances that Scott Lively is notgay gay like Ted Haggard or Rieker are about 99%.
Another notgay gay has to be Tony Perkins of Focus on Hating Everybody.
It is 100% certain though that Lively is a member of a fundie death cult based on hate. Fundie xianity is based on pure hate as a team building mechanism. This was my own observation based on having two functional eyes and 10 minutes of casual observation.
It is not new though.
Evangelical Christianity, as everyone knows, is founded upon hate, as the Christianity of Christ was founded upon love. -- H L Mencken
It was noticed nearly a century ago by H.L. Mencken. It explains everything about them perfectly.
Posted by: Alice Bluegown
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July 29, 2010 11:15 AM
And all these years I've been convinced The Pink Swastika was a sub-porn 70's exploitation flick, from the same folks who gave us Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS...
Posted by: Luis Dias
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July 29, 2010 11:16 AM
What really puzzles me is why these deluded creeps accept to be interviewed by the Daily Show. Don't they know what's going to happen?
Oh wait, they are crazy.
Posted by: Dianne
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July 29, 2010 11:17 AM
which is the purpose of the naked Larry Craig pics (Aversion Conversion Therapy!)
Well, I have to admit that the very thought of Larry Craig naked is enough to turn me off men...at last til I think of a cute one instead.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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July 29, 2010 11:17 AM
And let us all not forget that the European Jew is a thieving hateful disease spreading savage rat.
Posted by: Phodopus
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July 29, 2010 11:21 AM
I'm looking forward to another incarnation of the Roy Zimmerman song...
Posted by: Personal Failure
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July 29, 2010 11:24 AM
Studies have proven that the more conservative you are, the less likely you to pick up on the sort of satire that is the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. Apparently, fundamentalism destroys that portion of the brain.
Also, if we are what we hate most, I'm a large, hairy spider covered in tapioca pudding.
Posted by: JagyrEbonwood
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July 29, 2010 11:25 AM
Well, I'd prefer Lively got hit by a bus, but I'll settle for being pwned by Jason Jones.
Posted by: Alan B
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July 29, 2010 11:25 AM
BUT:
Pity.
Posted by: Mr.Nerdz
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July 29, 2010 11:28 AM
While there were originally (according to a quick wikipedia search) a number of Homosexuals in the Nazi party to begin with, guess which branch they were in.
Yup, the SA, the same one that was taken care of with the the Night of the Long Knives. Their leader, Roehm was homosexual, and supposedly one of the higher ranking member was engaged in sexual intercourse with another man when they came for him.
Supposedly, Hitler knew about this and covered it up with "It's not a morality organisation" (hint hint, he didn't like it, but they were useful)but as soon as the Night came, he used it as one of the main public reasons why he killed them. And he had another leading German officer forced to step down accused of it (hint hint, nobody liked it, and no-one in the upper parts of the party would want to associate with someone like that).
Then he sent them to the concentration camps and killed(mainly the men though, the women were meant to be merely "anti-social" until proved otherwise)And something tells me that the main leaders kinda wouldn't do that sort of thing- it's the sort of thing that a general might let slip in a suicide note, and then someone would have to be killed. (Hint hint, nothing of the sort)
You know, something tells me Hitler kinda didn't like homosexual people, and I don't think it was on the account of not getting any for himself
(all sourced on wikipedia, so if it's bullshit, don't kill me!)
Posted by: Tulse
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July 29, 2010 11:29 AM
It is hilarious to me that he already has so many versions. I wonder if he had any idea that his song about Haggard would prove to be so versatile.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlsjzdZ72Xv6OaHm401ZcXCNYx7u-fduUQ
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July 29, 2010 11:32 AM
Alan B.
If you are in Canada, you can watch the daily show on The Comedy network website.
This particular segment is at
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/#clip328964
Posted by: jbowen42
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July 29, 2010 11:37 AM
If this means I'm an evangelical republican homophobe, someone please shoot me now.
Posted by: Bob L
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July 29, 2010 11:42 AM
So Scott Lively is a homosexual then. That's the only way you can get that much obsessive homophobia.
Posted by: Tulse
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July 29, 2010 11:42 AM
I'm an evangelical-Republican-homophobophobe.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap
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July 29, 2010 11:43 AM
Maybe it's my penchant for classification and cataloging, but my favorite part was when Jones rammed through the list of all the countries that do not share the U.S. prohibition on gays in their militaries. During that bit Lively had a confused look on his face almost as good as the confused look on his face the moment before he blurted out "I'm not gay!"
And BTW, if you are what you hate the most that makes me a bowl of guacamole that talks libertarian but votes republican.
Posted by: jbowen42
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July 29, 2010 11:53 AM
It's fine just as long as you're not an evangelical-republican-homophobeophobeophobe.
Posted by: Darrell E
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July 29, 2010 11:54 AM
Posted by: Luis Dias | July 29, 2010 11:16 AM
I agree. I can think of a few reasons. Crazy, as you said, dumb as a sack of mimes, or so thoroughly convinced of their god gifted rectitude that they really believe that they can triumph no matter the circumstances. I guess that one is sorta already covered by "crazy" though.
Having no idea who this shithead is, it really just seems like he is a comedian working with Jason Jones. I no it shouldn't, but it just amazes me that anyone could sit there and spout shit like that and expect to have their shit shown any respect whatsoever.
So Mooney, any ideas on how to accommodate this asshole?
Posted by: Sean
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July 29, 2010 11:55 AM
I would like to suggest that PZ or one of the early commenters make reference to the date of airing of these Comedy Central shows so that folks like myself in Canada or other places can find the episode on other servers...All I get with these embeds is a notification that I cannot watch them.
Posted by: Darrell E
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July 29, 2010 12:01 PM
Typo in my #36
"I no it shouldn't, but ....
should be
"I know it shouldn't, but ....
Well, that was pointless, wasn't it?
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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July 29, 2010 12:01 PM
Mike in Ontario, NY @ # 18: By all accounts, he [Hitler] had great difficulty with, and discomfort around, women.
Some accounts differ, describing him as turning on the charm quite effectively (though for non-sexual purposes, such as enlisting support from wives of major Party donors). See James Pool & Suzanne Pool, Who Financed Hitler.
Other than Eva Braun, his only known liason was with his niece, Geli, whom he (likely) had killed.
There is much reason to doubt that, if for no other reason than that her death came at a politically inconvenient time for her uncle. More likely hypotheses are that she really did commit suicide, or that other Party leaders killed her to keep Hitler focused on his work.
There is some evidence that one or two of his elite inner circle were gay (Himmler springs to mind)...
In which case, would Himmler have bothered to keep a mistress?
... we should imprison vegetarians, or at least not let them serve in the military.
;-) I suspect that most vegetarians know when they sign up that neither chow halls nor MREs offer much in the way of tofu.
Posted by: Timberwoof
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July 29, 2010 12:10 PM
"That which you hate the most you secretly are?"
Well, we know it's more nuanced than that. But "That which you stridently hate…"
Well, at this jerk to the list.
It always embarrasses me when I'm told that some strident asshole is gay. That means that when he does finally come out of the closet, I'll have to deal with his smarmy apologies and him hitting on me*. I am not turned on by … never mind; I'll not be responsible for all those keyboards and monitors.
*Well, someoene will.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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July 29, 2010 12:12 PM
Penn and Teller and Colbert actually answered why they think anyone still agrees to talk to them
"They think they are bullet proof"
Which is WHY the anti-Mooney response is valuable. These people think there's nothing ridiculous about their ideas. They must be disillusioned of this notion.
Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY
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July 29, 2010 12:20 PM
I was just thinking how much I'd like to see "Inglorious Basterds" re-shot so that the Basterds are all gay, instead of Jewish. Instead of a baseball bat, the Bear Queen could wield a mace with a disco ball at the end of the velvet rope chain.
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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July 29, 2010 12:25 PM
Monty Python- I'm a lumberjack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0
Posted by: Shplane, some shit in french
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July 29, 2010 12:26 PM
Why so defensive, Reverend Lively? There's nothing to be ashamed of. After all, it's alright to cross dress for Christ.
Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY
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July 29, 2010 12:29 PM
Hi Pierce,
I think there is little doubt that Ernst Roehm pulled the trigger. My usual source for all things Hitler is Ian Kershaw's two-volume Hitler biography. You may be right about her death being decided by the party rather than Hitler himself, or it may have been a plausible deniability strategy. The party hid details about her murder quite effectively. Still, incest was involved.
You are totally correct about AH's ability to turn on the charm when fundraising. He and Wagner's daughter (or grand-daughter?) were mutual admirers. I think AH may have been one of those near-total ASEXUAL beings.
Posted by: heff.myopenid.com
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July 29, 2010 12:29 PM
#25 > Apparently, fundamentalism destroys that portion of the brain.
I suspect that the stupidity comes first and the fundamentalism follows hard upon.
Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification
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July 29, 2010 12:31 PM
I don't know. Scott Lively occupies a special place in my everlasting hatred. I hate a lot of right-wingers, professional homophobes, etc...
But Scott Lively?
Scott Lively is someone I wouldn't hesitate to kill with a spork as a service to the world. He is almost single-handedly responsible for most of the most egregious lies about homosexuals and more importantly has it as his mission in life to see all LGBT people killed. Not "imprisoned", not "saved through Christ", not merely shoved away into tiny little boxes.
His whole shtick is based around trying to justify a level of hate against homosexuals so strong that the entire straight population is trying to kill the entire queer population. His whole "nazis were radical homosexuals" bit, the origin point of half of the right-wing lies about homosexuals, and the proud creator of the anti-gay Uganda law as well as the culture that made it sound at all reasonable. Not to mention his constant harping that basically people on the street should commit hate crimes for Jesus if they are true Christians.
There are a lot of guilty hands in the professional homophobe world, but none are so shamelessly blood stained as Scott Lively. The man is an open terrorist and needs to be behind bars.
Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification
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July 29, 2010 12:37 PM
Mike in Ontario @45
Oh joy, just what we would need.
-
So, Cerberus, who are some famous asexuals?
Well, there was Nikola Tesla and mumble mumble.
What was that Cerberus?
I said Nikola Tesla and coughHitlercough.
Didn't quite catch it.
Hitler, goddamn you.
Oh, I guess you all-
I will kill you with this spork.
Posted by: onkundig
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July 29, 2010 12:39 PM
Darrel @ 36
+1.
If I had seen this video without any commentary, I would have taken it for a satire on homophobic christians. Its hard to believe people talk like in all seriousness.
And for me the best moment was when the interviewer, said "I was not done" and continued with the long list of countries. That was damn funny.
Posted by: shonny
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July 29, 2010 12:43 PM
In the US, do not anti-discrimination laws apply to godfuckers (as in xians)?
Thankfully, there is no such exemptions here in Scandinavia. That kind of talk would have landed the precious pugnacious petulant prick (to use Marcus Brigstocke's precise description of such critters) in deep trouble with the law!
Posted by: jbowen42
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July 29, 2010 12:46 PM
Put him behind bars where the public has access to him, like say, a zoo- maybe in Argentina.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 29, 2010 12:50 PM
PINKSHIRT GLITZKRIEG!!!!!
Posted by: csreid
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July 29, 2010 12:53 PM
In this particular instance, he wasn't doing anything worthy of legal trouble. The whole "Kill the fags!" thing might be different, but in general, if you're not directly harming anyone, you shouldn't end up in legal trouble.
That being said, I agree with Cerberus' sentiment. Kill him with a spork. Evil, evil man.
Posted by: burpy
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July 29, 2010 12:58 PM
Is there a name for the universal law that states that anybody actively campaigning against and generally displaying hatred towards homosexuals, is themself homosexual? If not, I propose "burpy´s law".
Posted by: jay.sweet
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July 29, 2010 1:01 PM
I loved the satirical appeal to the false middle when he was talking to the historian. "Look, I'm offering you a compromise!" hehehe
Posted by: Timberwoof
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July 29, 2010 1:01 PM
First carve out his exquisite floppily-doppilies.
But when your'e done, should you recycle the spork and risk the evil it acquired being transmitted to all the plastic things made from it? Or should the spork be dropped into a volcano and unmade?
Posted by: RowanVT
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July 29, 2010 1:02 PM
I think the absolutely *best* part was the immensely uncomfortable (constipated?) look on the guys face after the interviewer said "I didn't say you were..."
Posted by: SirBedevere
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July 29, 2010 1:03 PM
So did the good reverend reveal who he has "carrying his luggage" for him?
Posted by: jay.sweet
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July 29, 2010 1:08 PM
BTW, just so people know the context for this guy's insane hateful allegations... One of the Hitler's lackeys who headed up the SS early on (damned if I can remember his name) was indeed gay, and as a result the early SS was pretty neutral on the sexual orientation of their members (the SS was more progressive than our military? Oy). It didn't last very long, though, because -- surprise! -- most of the Nazi administration was highly homophobic, and they ousted this guy and purged all known homosexuals from the SS.
I might have some details wrong here -- a more dedicated history buff can feel free to correct me -- but that's the basic gist of it. To maybe summarize it more pithily: there was a brief period in which the Nazi party accidentally tolerated homosexuality, but it was corrected pretty rapidly.
Posted by: Mike Crichton
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July 29, 2010 1:08 PM
Shonny: In America, we have this pesky thing called "freedom of speech".
Pierce R. Butler: I suspect that most vegetarians know when they sign up that neither chow halls nor MREs offer much in the way of tofu.
Actually, every box of MREs has a few vegetarian entrees in it these days. Chow halls have veggie options too. The times, they are a changin'.
Posted by: csreid
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July 29, 2010 1:15 PM
I like how JJ spins out a long list of countries that have had no problems with gay military folk, and the greasy homophobe responds with (and I'm paraphrasing here...) "LALALALA GAYS R EBIL I CANT HEEEERRRE YOUUUU"
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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July 29, 2010 1:16 PM
Mike in Ontario, NY @ # 45: My usual source for all things Hitler is Ian Kershaw's two-volume Hitler biography.
Definitely a very good place to start. For this question, you might consider Ronald Hayman's Hitler and Geli - nowhere near as impressive a feat of scholarship as Kershaw's work, but one which fills in the human details nicely. (Alas, not on my shelves, or I'd be pulling out quotes now.)
...AH may have been one of those near-total ASEXUAL beings.
I did make a few notes after reading Hayman, most relevantly "Hitler’s sexuality highly stressful: often impotent, uro/copro-philic, both sadistic & masochistic".
Hayman also notes that Hitler's family was seriously inbred, with hunchbacks and other handicaps that probably disturbed him as an aesthetic youth and contributed in no small part to his fixation on "purifying" bloodlines and eliminating the "unworthy".
Posted by: irenedelse
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July 29, 2010 1:18 PM
@ jay.sweet:
Yep, that was Ernst Rohm, who headed the SA, the Nazi Party militia (not the SS, which grew from a splinter group of the SA). Hitler viewed Rohm as a potential rival and had him assassinated by the SS in 1934 with the other SA leaders, in the massacre known as the Night of the Long Knives. The fact that Rohm was gay and his SA open to homosexuality was an added factor in his disfavor, in Hitler's eyes.
Posted by: CarlosT
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July 29, 2010 1:23 PM
#27: As a fan of British panel shows, I get that a lot from here in the US. It's really frustrating and I can't think of any good reason why you'd want to restrict viewing of these clips.
As for why people still agree to be interviewed for the Daily Show, one big factor is that they're very unlikely to have actually watched the Daily Show very much, if at all. So in a lot of cases, they're completely clueless about what they're getting themselves into. The person I actually feel sympathy for is the (millionaire?) professor, who seemed irritated to be having to deal with suggestions like these, even in jest. I think she got the joke, but I think she didn't find it particularly funny.
Posted by: IslandBrewer
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July 29, 2010 1:26 PM
@shonny
"anti-discrimination" laws aren't really what you're talking about. Anti-discrimination laws in the US protect people based on enumerated "classes" - in other words, you can't deny people things like employment or commerce based on race, religion, national origin, etc. It really has nothing to do with speech.
I think what you mean are laws regarding hate speech. In the US, nearly all speech is protected (except, of course, speech which directly and immediately incites violence).
I realize that a lot of non-Americans don't quite grasp why we're so tolerant of the most ridiculous and hateful rhetoric such as Lively's, but in such a heterogeneous nation such as ours, giving the government the ability to criminalize ANY speech based on ideas is a dangerous weapon which can backfire.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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July 29, 2010 1:29 PM
Jay Sweet, the person you are thinking of is Ernst Röhm. He was not the head of the SS. He headed the SA and served as the paramilitary unit of the Nazi Party, in other word, former military thugs and street fighters.
The SA became a rouge element in Nazi Germany because the corporate powers and the military did not trust them. Also, Ernst Röhm had enough of a following in Nazi circles to rival Hitler's power. While the homosexuality of Ernst Röhm was given as the excuse for his execution, it was a power move by Hitler. He was removing a rival and, at the same time. placating the power elite of German society.
With Ernst Röhm out of the way, the SS, with it's pledge of being devoted to Adolf Hitler, became the main paramilitary arm of the Nazi Party.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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July 29, 2010 1:33 PM
Yes, it does take me this long to type up rather short posts.
Posted by: IslandBrewer
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July 29, 2010 1:37 PM
@Cerberus
Vegetarians, asexuals ... no group is safe from being Godwined. Hitler was the most evil Catholic/occultist/atheist vegetarian straight/gay/bi/asexual left/right wing evildoer ever there was.
"You voted Democrat? You know who else was a Democrat? ..."
Seriously, I heard that one.
Posted by: Mike in Ontario, NY
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July 29, 2010 1:38 PM
@ Janine:
Unless you meant "rogue", are we back to the pinkshirts? What shade of rouge goes with a smart brownshirt uniform?
Posted by: stompsfrogs
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July 29, 2010 1:41 PM
@Cerberus Re: famous asexuals
Andy Warhol
Paula Poundstone claims asexuality
That's all I got.
& thx for the lol csreid @ 61
& did anyone else think Hans Landa from Inglourious Basterds was a little foofie? Like, he would be a perfect example of gay-but-in-denial (burpy's law)?
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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July 29, 2010 1:42 PM
Mike! How dare you make fun of my typos!
'raspberry'
Posted by: IslandBrewer
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July 29, 2010 1:47 PM
Russet, obviously. But it only works if you're an Autumn.
Oh, and maybe Raspberry, per Janine's suggestion.
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 29, 2010 1:51 PM
It doesn't really change any of this guy's batshit crazy comments, but I always wonder how these Daily Show interviews are edited. It's hard to tell if the subject ever hears any of the actual questions, or if the questions are edited in after the fact. It's funny, this guy's a hateful nut, but I'm not sure he ever actually heard the interviewer say: "that which we hate most we secretly are". Anybody know if these things are edited or not?
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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July 29, 2010 1:51 PM
Methinks I am now getting picked on.
Oh, the pain. Oh, the humiliation.
Posted by: Sillysighbean
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July 29, 2010 1:57 PM
That video is hysterical.
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 29, 2010 1:57 PM
And now here we are discussing the likelihood of homosexuality of various famous Nazis. Missing the whole point of the historian in the piece's question: "Why does it matter?" I don't care if every single ranking member of the Nazi Party and the SS was a flaming queen, it says jack shit about the nature of homosexuals. Best I can tell the nature of homosexuals is just that they are sexually attracted to members of their own sex.
Also, doesn't this guy's argument really only work if homosexuality is something you're born with? Guess he at least accepts that being gay isn't a lifestyle choice.
Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification
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July 29, 2010 2:00 PM
stompsfrogs @70
While it'd be cool to claim Andy Warhol, historians seem to conclude he was very homosexual.
So, now the list comes to Paula Poundstone and Nikola Tesla. Not bad for such a tiny population.
Posted by: IslandBrewer
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July 29, 2010 2:01 PM
"PINKSHIRT GLITZKRIEG!"
Why does that put Wang Chung's "Dancehall Days" in my head, now?
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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July 29, 2010 2:04 PM
A further bit of pedantry, for those saying that Hitler offed Röhm to eliminate a rival for power within the party:
No doubt that was on his mind, but I'd say the evidence favors the hypothesis that Hitler's (successfully achieved) goal was to reassure the generals of the German army. Their force was limited by the conditions of the Versailles Treaty, so they were more than a little concerned that the million-plus SA outnumbered the men in the barracks (and in some cases was better armed as well). Crushing the SA boosted Hitler with the top brass, but its effect within the Party was primarily to strengthen Goering & Himmler.
The Night (actually a weekend) of Long Knives also served to eliminate nearly all the left wing of the NS Party, which made the industrialists more willing to tolerate Hitler. A few dozen political rivals were also taken out, but that was a tertiary motivation for the whole project.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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July 29, 2010 2:10 PM
Gus Snarp, in the case of Ernst Röhm, their was no question that he was a homosexual. It was known among all the Nazi leadership. It just because a convenient excuse when he was murdered because he was a rival to Hitler's power.
These facts in no way validates Scott Lively's reality free argument.
And you are right, all of this says nothing about homosexuality. That is because one's sexuality says nothing about one's personality. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out who, in the Nazi ranks was gay. It says nothing about who I am as a member of the LGBT community just as Stalin being an atheist says nothing about who I am as an atheist.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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July 29, 2010 2:20 PM
Pierce R. Butler, please note that I did say Hitler had Ernst Röhm murdered partly in order to placate the military. But it is also true that the power of the SA, who pledged loyalty to the Party, was eclipsed by the SS, who pledged loyalty to Hitler.
It was a power play that both solidified Hitler's power and meant to sooth the military.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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July 29, 2010 2:21 PM
Hitler!
Yes very. . .um. . .gay.
Sorry, Scott. We've done the historical research and you're the one that's bullshit. Lying fuckwad.
Posted by: Numenaster
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July 29, 2010 2:25 PM
Ah yes, Scott Lively. I remember him non-fondly from the heady 1980's and 90's, when he was just the violent bouncer for Lon Mabon's Oregon Citizen's Alliance. That was the organization that spent a few years specializing in constitutional amendments to reinstate official discrimination against gays (with a foray into abortion politics in 1990).
Lively earned himself a $31K civil judgment for injuring a photographer for the local gay paper in the process of (literally) throwing her out of an OCA meeting. He fought the case tooth and nail for years and left the state after his last appeal was rejected: as far as I know, he's never paid a penny on it. He HAS clearly learned that it's safer to advocate that others perform violence than to perform it yourself.
The OCA's biggest hit was Measure 8, which was a marvel of succinctness. In one short paragraph it equated homosexuality with pedophilia, sadism and masochism, and declared them all equally "abnormal, wrong, unnatural and perverse". We should have made him turn in his thesaurus there and then.
Posted by: Numenaster
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July 29, 2010 2:29 PM
A correction: Lively has indeed paid off the principal on his fine, but the OCA itself was still maneuvering (as of 2007) to avoid paying the interest.
Posted by: Katharine
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July 29, 2010 2:32 PM
Sometimes I wonder if a good strategy is to repeatedly tell these people to come out of the closet.
Posted by: bgcamroux
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July 29, 2010 2:38 PM
I guess I am a hybrid of melons (watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew, etc) and cucumber....
Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD)
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July 29, 2010 2:41 PM
Scott Lively is a human. Hitler was a human. OMG!!
Both white male humans, even. OMG!! Lively is probably building concentration camps right now!!!
Posted by: Numenaster
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July 29, 2010 2:43 PM
Katharine @85,
We've been trying that for decades now in Oregon. What works better is good, snappy slogans that nobody can argue with. Seriously. "Love Makes A Family" is probably the best, but "No special rights for religions" is good too.
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 29, 2010 2:51 PM
Roger Ebert has tweeted a link to this post. I really love that he appears to read Pharyngula regularly. Last time he tweeted a link here it didn't bring in many comments though.
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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July 29, 2010 2:57 PM
Even if the head of the SA was gay, the SA itself was anti-gay from the start. Röhm was no different from Rekers in that respect.
http://www.hirschfeld.in-berlin.de/institut/en/exil/exil_02.html
The Nazis pillaged Magnus Hirschfeld's Institute for Sexual Science and burned its publications as a central piece of propaganda in their rise to power.
Posted by: bgcamroux
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July 29, 2010 3:00 PM
I'd say to send the spork off to alpha-centauri. I wouldn't want to chance having some particles from said spork, no matter how small, coming back from a volcano or even the sun. Just think: a purely evil basalt flow!
And we all know that the more dilute something is the stronger the effect, so I wouldn't want to think about a proton from the spork coming in contact with the earth after being destroyed by the sun. Horror of horrors!
Posted by: Ladynajera
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July 29, 2010 3:12 PM
Any man who has to take a breath and calm down before he says "I'm not gay!" Has us already knowing and thinking he is! Usually if a person has been around gays long enough you can usually tell if one is gay or not! By there style of clothing and the way they hold themselves and walk! Like men who were scarves in the 80 plus weather with a tee-shirt or button up shirt! It makes you what? I think men who publically try to become anti-gay activists just want to make us wonder if they themselves are closet gays! There are alot of them in the heterosexual world! I just wish they would quit hiding in our world and come out! It is hard enough on families who have gay family members or on the men and woman that these people marry just to hide the fact they would rather be with the same sex then there wives or husbands. As for Hitler I think he was bisexual! I think he was sadistic!
Posted by: efctony
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July 29, 2010 3:24 PM
I'm getting pretty pissed off with this "Sorry, Videos are not currently available in your country".
They're not sorry at all. The videos' unavailability is not down to any external factors. It's not down to an error. It's not even down to the Daily Show not being bothered to make them available. It's down to a deliberate act to *exclude* me, and others like me, from the conversation.
Posted by: blf
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July 29, 2010 3:49 PM
…and be eaten alive by a horde of commie pinkshirt evilutionary dogless babyeating horned firebreathing kraken? Who need to keep their teeth sharp, coats all sniny, and spear narwhals with their pointed tails?
Shows the man's got intelligent followers.
Or they've already been eaten.
Posted by: Kieranfoy, Faerie Godfather of Death, GMKSC, OED
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July 29, 2010 4:24 PM
@Ladynajera
Way to spew out homophobic stereotypes like they're going out of style. * You can't sodding 'tell if they're gay.' Not all gay men are fashionable, or scarf fetishists. Not all of them are fops, and 'gaydar' is just an Internet meme.
If you're going to try to be broad-minded, try... oh, I dunno, being broad-minded?
Okay, I'm done. **
*Unless that breathelss recitation of inane shite was somehow sarcasm, in which case I apologize.
**Oh, also? You're banned from using exclamation ponts ever again. EVER!
Posted by: Cosmic Snark
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July 29, 2010 4:43 PM
Maybe Scott Lively is attempting to create an inverse Godwin's Law:
"As a discussion grows longer, the probability of comparing Nazis to gays approaches 1".
Posted by: MAJeff, OM
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July 29, 2010 4:57 PM
/I realize that a lot of non-Americans don't quite grasp why we're so tolerant of the most ridiculous and hateful rhetoric such as Lively's, but in such a heterogeneous nation such as ours, giving the government the ability to criminalize ANY speech based on ideas is a dangerous weapon which can backfire.
That, and the fact that we have tended to be a right-wing nation and it would definitely be used against folks like the Civil Rights Movement and the LGBT movement. Imagine how much more evil J.Edgar Hoover or Ronald Reagan could have been with speech codes.
The OCA's biggest hit was Measure 8, which was a marvel of succinctness. In one short paragraph it equated homosexuality with pedophilia, sadism and masochism, and declared them all equally "abnormal, wrong, unnatural and perverse". We should have made him turn in his thesaurus there and then.
It was Measure 9. It inspired some of the most vile hatred, violence, and murders. There's a great documentary about it.
Posted by: Numenaster
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July 29, 2010 5:09 PM
MAJeff @98,
Argh. Thanks for the correction. Their career STARTED with Measure 8 (Oregon numbers statewide ballot measures starting from 1 at the beginning of each year).
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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July 29, 2010 5:19 PM
I dunno, after reading this:
I'm much more worried about the dangerous (if very short) feared Raspberry Berets.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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July 29, 2010 5:25 PM
Janine, She Wolf Of Pharyngula, OM @ # 81 - Right you are, right you were.
Fun "Long Knives" trivia to know 'n' tell: during the planning & execution of the project that began on the night of June 30, 1934, Hitler & accomplices described it as Operation Hummingbird.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM
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July 29, 2010 5:39 PM
Fun "Long Knives" trivia to know 'n' tell: during the planning & execution of the project that began on the night of June 30, 1934, Hitler & accomplices described it as Operation Hummingbird.
"butterfly" would have been so much more fun..."maricon" and all.
Posted by: PeteJohn
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July 29, 2010 5:41 PM
The look on his face after Jones says "I didn't say you were..." (or whatever it actually was that he said, I'm blanking on the exact quote) is truly priceless. His anguished expression sort of just melted away into a big non-verbal "ppphhheeewwww, got lucky there!"
What a profoundly silly man... History isn't a hard science but you still can't just make stuff up and assert it as fact. Historians have been looking into Hitler's strange sex life for a very, very long time and there are some very weird and disgusting stories that may or may not be true but that is kind of pointless anyway. Enjoying kinky sex (if he did which isn't an easily defensible fact in the first place) isn't an automatic jumping off point into murdering six million Jewish people and millions of others who didn't quite make the racial cut. It's just a bunch of anti-gay hatred stemming from Loonianity land. It's a shame that there are people who actually buy in to this crap.
Posted by: Aaron Baker
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July 29, 2010 5:47 PM
I think the best evidence for Nazi gayness was their (justly admired) fashion sense.
Posted by: lykex
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July 29, 2010 6:04 PM
Oh, the good reverend is quite clearly a closeted homosexual.
First, notice that he said that openly homosexual men are different from "natural" men. Clearly, being closeted isn't quite as bad. It's all about repressing the urges.
This leads us to the second point; he states that openly gay men don't have the restraint that normal men do. I.e. they give in to they "unnatural" urges, while normal men repress them.
It sounds to me like the reverend has a few urges of his own, but since he represses them, he can rationalize himself as not being openly gay, and therefore a "normal" person.
I mean, if he didn't want to get down and dirty, then why would he need restraint?
Posted by: LewisX
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July 29, 2010 6:22 PM
Any Brits having trouble watching this might like to try here:
It's on after the first break.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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July 29, 2010 7:04 PM
MAJeff @ # 101: ... "maricon" and all.
My Spanish doesn't extend to slang etymology: are "maricon" and "mariposa" related terms?
Posted by: Kieranfoy, Faerie Godfather of Death, GMKSC, OED
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July 29, 2010 7:32 PM
@Pierce:... Ah, no.
Maricon is an obscenity. Basically translates to 'gay,' but offensive.
Amazing what one can pick up on the Mexican border while listening to schoolkids.
Posted by: HughWillRidmee
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July 29, 2010 8:09 PM
Re 105
Available in Britain via Channel4 - search for "The Daily Show"
Posted by: John Morales
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July 29, 2010 8:40 PM
[meta]
Maricón.
So, "faggot" or "poofter" (depending on which side of the pond one is in), as a corruption of slang for the female name Maria.
Posted by: Usagichan
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July 29, 2010 9:12 PM
I was more reminded of Sweet's "Ballroom Blitz"
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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July 29, 2010 9:13 PM
Glitzkrieg is my new favorite word
Posted by: bassmanpete
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July 29, 2010 9:24 PM
Kind of ironic (or was it deliberate?) that the photo on the computer screen at 2:10 in the video is of Ernst Röhm.
Posted by: raven
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July 29, 2010 10:55 PM
This is the sort of thing that Focus on Hatred and notgay Lively end up causing.
Happened to a friend of mine not too long ago. Although they weren't married, no kids. She said at least she isn't living with someone while starving for sex anymore.
Posted by: Timberwoof
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July 29, 2010 11:42 PM
So Maricon has the same meaning as "Mary" as an insult-word against gays. (A friend of mine and I got called "Tom and Mary" by some black kids once. I'll jabe to tell the story on my LiveJournal page some time.)
Oregon's Measure 9 was on the ballot at the same time as Colorado's Amendment 2. People wondered why those two states… demographically similar, with 50% threshold for amending the state constitution, and similarly active gay communities.
Someone observed that it was an attempt to experimentally determine what sorts of strategies worked better. On Oregon they were total rat-bastards, from proposing a really nasty piece of legislation to setting on fire the house where the opposition leader lived. In Colorado the law was somewhat nicer and the whole campaign was on a much more civil level (unless you read their propaganda sheet, which was full of lies).
In Oregon the proposal failed by a small margin; in Colorado it passed by a small margin. The lesson was that to pass anti-gay legislation, you have to appear to be nice. Nazi-style (I claim an exemption—Godwin already happened) violence doesn't work; insulting classical-music fans is acceptable.
But Coloradans for Family Values can go suck. Because of their efforts at suppression, gay pride parades started happening again in Colorado Springs and gay/Lesbian choirs sprung up all over the state. Ha-ha!
Posted by: wildmonky
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July 29, 2010 11:44 PM
Sigh. I always wonder, when I come across another Lively, if they're a relative of mine. I sincerely hope not! Though I also hope Blake Lively isn't a relative for very different reasons.
Posted by: Xebecer
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July 29, 2010 11:59 PM
It's fun to stay at the N-A-Z-I
It's fun to stay at the N-A-Z-I
You can get yourself mean
You can have a good kill
You can gas whomever you feel
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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July 30, 2010 12:07 AM
"'Sigh. I always wonder, when I come across another Lively, I'll hit the gas instead of the brake this time! "
Fixed
Posted by: Cowcakes
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July 30, 2010 2:07 AM
Going by Reverend Scott Lively's logic, considering the number of Blue on Blue incidents in Iraq and Afghanistan by American forces they must have more gays than the openly gay forces of its allies
Posted by: Cowcakes
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July 30, 2010 2:11 AM
Addendum to my previous comment. It's obvioulsy not Blue on Blue incidents but Pink on Pink.
Really struggling with the thought that people take imbeciles like him seriously.
Posted by: El
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July 30, 2010 2:35 AM
Maricón is more offensive because if you call somenone maricón, mariconazo, mariquita or maricona if it is a woman, you are calling him/her coward, implying that being gay and being a coward is the same thing.
And a lot of people use it, without thinking that it is offensive and hurtful.
Posted by: j-brisby
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July 30, 2010 2:57 AM
I am so bloody sick of the fact that Comedy Central's clips aren't viewable in Canada.
Posted by: Nomad
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July 30, 2010 3:05 AM
I'm still amazed by this whole "they were all secretly X, and they were so clever that they hid it and acted like the total opposite and even persecuted X in order to trick future generations" thing.
A similar maneuver tends to be pulled with the evolution lead to the holocaust thing. Books relating to evolution were banned, yet evolution is supposed to have secretly motivated Hitler.
I feel like the assumption of this kind of thinking is that Hitler knew he was going to lose and worked to hide these things in order to trick future generations into leaving themselves vulnerable to them.
And.. I just find that insane. Look, I know these kinds of religious people are accustomed to thinking delusional things. I'm familiar with the ever popular "white christians are a persecuted minority" thing, but.. it's like they're trying to say that the entire WWII thing was just a ploy to Hitler and he secretly planned after his death for the rest of the world to let gay people join the military, and THEN his master plan would be complete.
Posted by: j-brisby
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July 30, 2010 3:20 AM
@117
As long as it isn't Blake Lively!!
Posted by: Snoof
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July 30, 2010 6:51 AM
It's projection. The people who pull it _are_ secretly insecure in their faith and uncertain of their sexuality, yet they're required by their role in society to pretend otherwise, so they assume everyone else is like them.Some of them, at least.
Posted by: raven
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July 30, 2010 10:16 AM
"It's projection."
Sure. But it is even simpler. It is Goebbels' Big Lie. Lively and his co-defectives are simply lying a lot. This is ubiquitous among the fundie hate cults.
Didn't do Goebbels any good in the end. He killed his 6 children, killed his wife, and then committed suicide.
Posted by: MN123
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July 30, 2010 11:23 AM
Why is this obvious whackjob a reverend? Says a lot about some other people, too.
Posted by: tonysidaway
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July 30, 2010 11:37 AM
Thanks for this. In my house the Daily Show, shown on More4 at 2030 in the UK on the day following the US broadcast, is a guilty pleasure because I'm the only one who knows enough about American culture to understand the humor.
Yesterday was different. After reading this blog posting I turned to my wife and told her about the moment where Lively says "I'm not gay", and after that point I didn't have to explain why it might be fun to watch the show. We set a reminder up and watched the show. The Scott Lively section was even better than I expected, and some other commentators here have highlighted some of the other good scenes. I loved the clowning around at the New York Gay Community Center.
Posted by: Ginnis
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July 30, 2010 11:45 AM
OMG .. Absolutely hysterical..
Then again, as a cognitive psychologist, I am so fascinated at how such a mind could work. Is it just that he zips around his white matter so quickly, making and justifying connections, that he isn't even aware of all the inconsistencies? And why would anyone want to live in a world riddled with lies, inaccuracies, and hatred, when a world of (usually-kind) reason and honesty is so easily accessible. Perplexing...
Sadly, he's not alone. I was so naive for most of my life, and now I seem to encounter a lot of people like this. In Academia no less. I must have a big empty spot in my white or gray matter for making sense of these people. Zombies make more sense to me...
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkyh3UkHtoWi978AdjZr7Nlsm63DtQhPzU
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July 30, 2010 5:31 PM
I once saw a gay therapist who said that research had been done which showed that homophobic people were more physiologically sexually aroused by gay erotic images than straight people who are not homophobic. So I guess there's something to be said for exploring ones own sexuality. Setting up a whole third reich or getting choir boys to do it for you does seem just a tad extreme however and shows a lack of imagination.
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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July 30, 2010 5:56 PM
Googlemess #129,
You might be referring to the study done by Henry Adams published in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology (link) in August 1996.
Posted by: polymathisthegoal
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July 31, 2010 1:41 PM
Well the status quo has remained intact. Most Christianity in America is appalling and The Daily Show is both hilarious and more informing than most traditional news shows.