…and this is a 
ON STRIKE!
It's come to this. We've been facing a steady erosion of talent here at Scienceblogs, with the loss of good people like Carl Zimmer and Ed Yong a while back, and with the very abrupt departure of 15 bloggers after the recent PepsiCo debacle — an event that damaged the reputation of this place. And now just yesterday we lost PalMD and Bora. Something is going rotten here. What could it be?
I don't think it's ultimately an ethical problem. I have every confidence that the management at Seed Media Group wants to do the right thing, and I think they have gotten many things exactly right: they've given us a platform and a lot of freedom to do what we want, and never once have they told us we can't write this or we must write that. The lapses have been real mistakes, not part of a pattern of malfeasance. The economy has put a serious strain on the publishing industry, everyone is short-staffed, and there's a constant struggle for advertising dollars to keep the lights on. Mistakes will happen. The test is whether the organization will act to correct them.
The key problem is one of communication. The bloggers here are almost entirely in the dark about what's going on behind the scenes, and we get news indirectly and by rumor. We've had almost no technical support for over a year; when we do hear what changes are being made, it's almost always trivial tweaks to support advertising. We report bugs, we get back silence. We see the ads that appear on site getting cheesier and cheesier. We don't know what's happening, and there is no mechanism and no effort made to enlighten us.
The problems go the other way, too. SMG doesn't know much about what we're thinking. The PepsiCo issue would have never happened if there'd been any discussion with the bloggers — we'd have pointed out that it was blurring the line between content and ads, and responsible changes would have been made before it went online. I can tell you that a lot of the bloggers here are very concerned about the departure of colleagues, and there has been much rightful concern about the future of this network, especially since Bora left. Yet management doesn't seem at all worried, or at least is not telling us about their concerns, or is completely oblivious to the fact that many of their bloggers are talking about leaving for less fretful spaces. We have no idea what's going on, and that makes the situation worse.
I've decided to light a fire under management and get some visible effort to resolve the problems. I don't expect instant easy answers, but I do expect to see positive efforts under way. I could just pack up my bags and leave — another thing that Seed has done right is that they do not treat us as captives — but then I would just be hurting an already hurting organization, and I really do like Seed and Scienceblogs and all my fellow bloggers. They've been good to me. So, to add more incentive to getting some action, I'm going on strike.
ON STRIKE!
This is going to hurt. I like blogging; I do this for fun, and because I want to get my message out there. I also know what effect it will have on my traffic if I stop posting, because you're all a sensible lot and you're not going to waste time reading a site that has nothing new to say. I just checked, and I'm in the midst of a bit of a traffic surge, with almost 190,000 page views yesterday alone…and that's going to decline precipitously. I get paid for that traffic, too, so it's going to hurt my pocketbook. My wife has already given me one of her long-suffering looks when I told her what I had to do, but then, I get those from her all the time, as you might expect. Sorry, my check will be smaller this month, on top of the salary reductions my university has announced.
So this is my last post for a while. I don't know how long; maybe SMG will contact me right away and surrender to my demands (which are pretty mild, so it's entirely possible). Or maybe the pattern of silence will continue, and with regret and exasperation, I'll have to find a new host somewhere else. Whatever happens, we can't keep going as we have.
Oh, right. Demands. You can't have a strike without some goal that will resolve it. Here's what I want from Seed:
Immediate formation of a mechanism for communication between management and bloggers. We're an unwieldy group, so setting up a small committee of bloggers with regular (monthly) conference calls, and the option for ad hoc calls when serious issues come up, such as the PepsiCo mess.
Prompt responses from management. When Bora left, that was a major event; there should have been a quick in-house response that would have involved scheduling a conversation within the week. No more long silences.
Regular updates on the status of tech support, and input from bloggers. We've got bugs, they get ignored, and the priorities are biased towards advertising opportunities. Ads are important, but who is going to want to advertise at a place that's falling apart? Or has big signs saying "ON STRIKE" out front? Throw us a bone now and then.
Transparency. Bloggers need to be informed about any problems in the parent organization, and we'd also like to hear more good news, too. Fly new plans by us so you can get feedback before they go live and blow up.
More trust. This may be an odd one, but the bloggers are dependent on the financial health of Seed, too. It's OK for management to suggest to us what they'd like to see more of on the blogs; I have no problem with suggestions, for instance, that we throw in more nutrition or food blogging this month, because we've got an advertising contract from PepsiCo, as long as our response is optional and as long as we're also free to criticize.
See? Those demands shouldn't be so hard to meet. Now the test is whether Seed can exhibit a little agility and respond to them expeditiously.
In the meantime, the comments are open, and I have some requests.
Make other suggestions for Scienceblogs. Assuming Seed actually does make an effort to repair the situation, what don't you like here? What should the priorities be for improving your experience on Scienceblogs? Can it be fixed?
If they don't, what next? People were already making suggestions in the previous thread: I need concrete information on setting up an independent server, technical assistance, getting ads to pay for the thing, etc. Seed has taken care of all of that painful work for me for so long, that it would be a bit of a shock to leave, and leaving is the least pleasant option for me. Hold my hand and tell me what to do.
Coffee and donuts on the picket line are also welcome.
ON STRIKE!
Just in the time it took me to write this up this morning, Superbug, Zuska, and Speakeasy Science have all announced their departures, and Casaubon's Book is considering it. We really are having a serious crisis of confidence, and Seed has to wake up and take action.
I'm hoping more blogs don't leave, but instead join in this strike. We need to publicize and organize and make Seed feel compelled to make changes, I'd rather not see it become a ghost town.
Add Mike Dunford to the list of departures.
Jobs
Comments
Posted by: Porco Dio
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July 20, 2010 12:06 PM
we support your valour PZ.
seed management is a disgrace
Posted by: Greg Laden
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July 20, 2010 12:06 PM
You should close the comments.
Posted by: Tulse
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July 20, 2010 12:07 PM
With all the departures, I really don't see Sb as a viable concern anymore. I think leaving (and setting up an independent blogging collective with other like-minded folks) makes far more sense at this point.
Posted by: PZ Myers
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July 20, 2010 12:10 PM
Closing all comments is the next step, if there's no response.
I feel like I'm stabbing myself in the eyes.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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July 20, 2010 12:10 PM
That's like telling us to get a life.
Yeah, like that's going to happen.
Since this is your last post for a while, you might want to fix the type, "along" to "alone."
Glen Davidson
Posted by: Kieranfoy, Faerie Godfather of Death, GMKSC, OED
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July 20, 2010 12:12 PM
I feel like you're stabbing me in the eyes!
For Sithis' sake, no more Pharyngula? Maybe closing comments? No moar pwnage?
P.Z., can't you find a way to get Seed's attention that doesn't punish your fans at the same time?
Posted by: Ray Moscow
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July 20, 2010 12:13 PM
Well, use the interim to finish writing your book. I for one look forward to buying and reading it.
I hope you get a good response from Seed.
Posted by: RockyHarper
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July 20, 2010 12:13 PM
what about twitter?
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 20, 2010 12:14 PM
At least I'll get more work done.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 12:15 PM
Do what you feel you need to do PZ. Just let us know if you move. *waits for withdrawal symptoms to kick in*
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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July 20, 2010 12:15 PM
B-b-but... There are battles being waged in the threads, and recent posts that I haven't even had a chance to read yet.
Somebody with the capabilities, please archive the comment threads just in case worst comes to worst.
Posted by: mikerattlesnake
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July 20, 2010 12:15 PM
oh god, now I have to work at work.
(also: ad on the right was one for a christian correspondence college with the word christian EXTREMELY small in the ad, inappropriate and disingenuous... fix this shit, Seed!)
Posted by: Rawnaeris
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July 20, 2010 12:17 PM
Good, so I'm not the only one wondering how I was going to successfully procrastinate without access to Pharyngula.
Oh well, I'll go do some chores and check back up with ya'll later.
Posted by: Greg Laden
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July 20, 2010 12:17 PM
Feel free to comment here, off site:
http://gregladen.com/wordpress/?p=1725
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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July 20, 2010 12:18 PM
This is... pretty dramatic. :-/
Pharyngula represents quite a substantial part of my social life at the moment, now that I've left university for the summer. So this is a fairly big deal.
I can understand wanting to go on strike from posting new content, but are there still going to be new iterations of the Endless Thread? If not, is there somewhere else we can all go to hang out online (besides Facebook, which not all Pharyngulites are on) during the strike?
Posted by: abrasax365
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July 20, 2010 12:18 PM
Best of luck to PZ and the bloggers who join him. Sb was a a good idea and I hope to see it survive. But I'm afraid the awful truth is that SMG is out of money and out of ideas for raising it.
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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July 20, 2010 12:19 PM
I cannot offer concrete suggestions to Seed, as I know very little about the actual mechanics of their organization.
I do have the technical knowledge to help set up, customize, maintain, and otherwise manage web sites. I would gladly offer my assistance. I can offer several days of getting something up and running, and up to 10 hours a week thereafter.
I have no idea how to organize folks into a community. I do not have marketing acumen. I am not a graphic designer. I write software for a living, and love the sciences, and have felt at home here, and don't want to lose that simply because a company has gone explosively dysfunctional.
I would gladly help with the management of a new service, should the worst happen.
Posted by: Aquaria
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July 20, 2010 12:20 PM
You're going to be on strike for a while.
What kind of cookies do you like?
Posted by: robertbos
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July 20, 2010 12:20 PM
Look on the bright side, you might get some work done!
Think of it as an opportunity to set up that UMM freethinker group.
Posted by: Ben Goren
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July 20, 2010 12:21 PM
Well, in solidarity, this will be my last post while you’re on strike. I’m far from a prolific contributor, but I at least hope that the thought counts.
I will keep reloading to check for updates, so Seed will keep getting hits from me…I just don’t see a way around that, unfortunately.
Cheers,
b&
Posted by: gettingfree
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July 20, 2010 12:21 PM
Oh, noes!! I look at this site everyday, several times a day.... (*sniff*) I sure hope something gets resolved and soon. I am sure I will still look everyday. I did start to take a look at old posts once, but couldn't get far and keep up with the new. I guess I will do a little looking at old posts for a while cuz I just can't go cold-turkey...
I've only been reading for 8.5 months, so I don't know what's going on and have no suggestions, except to ask Seed to please cooperate with the strike.
Posted by: JeffreyD
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July 20, 2010 12:22 PM
Solidarity forever.
Will I miss the place if there is a long hiatus? Hell yes! That said - Will not read any other blogs on this service until there is a favourable resolution.
Solidarity forever.
Posted by: Hank Fox
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July 20, 2010 12:22 PM
Well, hell.
Watching this is like seeing your favorite married couple get into a nasty public fight.
I hope you guys work things out.
Um ... I myself have been known to withdraw when things started to go wrong, and deal with problems by not dealing with them.
Is it possible Adam is, well, depressed?
PZ: Is there another site where you can keep us updated on your upcoming appearances, etc?
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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July 20, 2010 12:22 PM
Oh, and by "management," I mean helping with the IT stuff. Just in case that's not clear.
Posted by: TGAP Dad
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July 20, 2010 12:22 PM
If we read Pharyngula in the mean time - old posts, comments and such - are we "crossing the picket line?" Does that make the other SB bloggers "scabs." If I go read Isis the Scientist, does that make me a strike breaker? Oh woe is me!
Posted by: Heather
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July 20, 2010 12:23 PM
I have no idea of the background of this - but certain aspects of it remind me of the RD.net debacle that you blogged quite dismissively about a few months back - only that Timonen and his sidekick were out and out BASTARDS to that web community for a few days while Richard's back was turned.
And yes, they too blank-facedly threw away most of the best parts of what they themselves had brought about and successfully fostered - which as it happens was and is far less significant than Scienceblogs, but still significant in it's own way.
So I kind of get the situation, and am not going to make dismissive comments about how Seed can do what they want since it's they're site (which you of course likely already know) or that you're exhibiting a false sense of entitlement or whatever…
Either way, I am secure in the knowledge that Pharyngula will go on under some guise or other, and I'll keep reading it. I'll leave the details and best wishes with you and the other aggrieved bloggers to sort out.
Posted by: sparky-ca
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July 20, 2010 12:23 PM
How to set up a home server
http://www.webmonkey.com/2010/02/set_up_a_home_server/
Good Luck, PZ
~Sparky
Posted by: Shplane, some shit in french
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July 20, 2010 12:23 PM
...Ouch. Hopefully either things will get fixed, or you'll find somewhere else to blog soon. A world without Pharyngula isn't something I want to think about.
Posted by: Perspexo
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July 20, 2010 12:23 PM
Comrade PZ, hopefully Seed will see that your requests are reasonable and act on them soon.
I don't know how I'd make through 12 hour shifts in work without the threads here to spend some time in.
Posted by: Qwerty
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July 20, 2010 12:23 PM
Wow, a strike without a picket line. This is new.
Hope your demands are met as I'd miss reading posts and posting comments. I'd also like to thank PZ for all the science even though the only biology I had was in high school. Some of it is interesting while much of it is over my proverbial head.
Here's my *honk* of the horn in support as there is no picket line to pass in my car.
Posted by: destlund
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July 20, 2010 12:25 PM
Nothing says ON STRIKE like ON STRIKE in a 72 point font. Let's see if we can explode the endless thread while PZ's busy picketing!
Posted by: haakon.thunestvedt
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July 20, 2010 12:25 PM
It's sad that it has come to this. Hope Seed is listening and the situation resolves soon.
Posted by: llewelly
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July 20, 2010 12:26 PM
Expect more crickets.
Posted by: rudbeckia.triloba
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July 20, 2010 12:26 PM
Damn...I've been a long-time reader but too shy to comment much.
Good on you for standing up, but I'm going to miss your blog.
When you come back, I'm sure there'll still be plenty of us waiting.
Until then, I'll be getting my information elsewhere.
Solidarity, dear sir.
Posted by: NewEnglandBob
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July 20, 2010 12:27 PM
PZ, you are being quite reasonable, so therefore there will be people calling you an out of control Dick who is manipulative. (sigh).
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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July 20, 2010 12:27 PM
Oh dear. :-(
+1 for whether the @pharyngulafeed on Twatter will let us know as/when things change.
Posted by: irenedelse
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July 20, 2010 12:28 PM
Ow. If there's no more Pharyngula for a time, I'll experience withdrawal, that's for sure. But this move also makes me appreciate all the more your integrity, PZ. And your guts.
With your traffic and profile, it would probably have been easy to get and accept an offer from another media group, and do well with it. But by going on strike, you're effectively calling for a solution that profits everybody, including the "little" blogs, and the readers, and the Seed media group administrators. That's the way influence and power (such as it is) should always be wielded.
My metaphorical hat's off to you. And I hope the response from Seed won't disappoint.
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 20, 2010 12:30 PM
While we're complaining about technical problems with Sb, why does my browser periodically download an icon file when I load the site? And can we stop that?
Posted by: btthegeek
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July 20, 2010 12:30 PM
Crap, crap, crap. Understandable, totally support you, but what a freaking letdown by Seed. I second the "please keep us posted on news on another site."
Posted by: Snikkers
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July 20, 2010 12:30 PM
As I read this post an ad for Scientology (Why Is It The Fastest Growing Religion In The World?) kept flashing to the right.
What about Sparky's idea?
Off to read Rationally Speaking and looking forward to reading you again,
Cheryl
Posted by: Seamyst
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July 20, 2010 12:31 PM
Well, after the last post, I can't say I'm surprised. I'm glad you're striking instead of leaving straight away, though - hopefully THIS will combine with everything else as a wake up call that Seed will actually pay attention to.
If you do decide to go elsewhere, please do let us know.
In the meantime, I'm brewing up batches of iced tea (since we're on Day N+1 of a heat wave on the East Coast, and coffee is too hot) for everyone.
Posted by: Iris
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July 20, 2010 12:31 PM
Ugh. I'm so sad about this! PZ I hope you're up and running again soon - one way or another.
Posted by: Brad Anderson
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July 20, 2010 12:31 PM
Yeah, we're all going to miss you PZ! I really hope that Seed will come to their senses.
I almost get the feeling that there's a clockmaker up in management...
Anyway, here's hoping for a quick resolution! Come back soon!
Posted by: kjloco
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July 20, 2010 12:32 PM
The refugees from the old Richard Dawkins forums can't help but snicker now that the break-up drama is yours PZ. Go start your own like we did.
Posted by: toth
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July 20, 2010 12:32 PM
Is it possible for you to post somewhere off-site for the duration of the strike, or would that conflict with some contractual obligations with Seed? I depend on Pharyngula as part of my daily procrastination ritual, and I'd hate to lose it.
As far as suggestions: submitting comments could be a lot faster. A rich text editor might be called for, too. It might also be nice to have the ability to edit one's own comments after posting them.
Posted by: secularshawshank
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July 20, 2010 12:34 PM
PZ has enough readers to go totally independent. He should start his own site maybe.
Posted by: rhaguirrem
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July 20, 2010 12:36 PM
I'm already experiencing abstinence syndrome. Hope this situation is solved soon. Anyway, I'll be checking regularly http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/pharyngula/, just in case...
Posted by: David Dobbs
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July 20, 2010 12:37 PM
I'd suggest adding to the demands a clear statement about advert/editorial walls and paid blogs and the like.
Good luck.
Posted by: Physicalist
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July 20, 2010 12:37 PM
Well, I won't be crossing the picket line. Let me know if/when we're back in business.
Posted by: DanAdkins
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July 20, 2010 12:38 PM
PZ, how can we contribute directly to you to minimize / eliminate any financial hit from the strike and / or move to another host?
Posted by: SC OM
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July 20, 2010 12:38 PM
*clenched-tentacle salute*
Posted by: kevin.boyce
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July 20, 2010 12:39 PM
Oh, that kind of dick...
When you hear their lawyers talking
Saying our behavior’s shocking
It’s convincing as a cockney
Dick van dyke.
When they leave the town unstable
Then they come back to the table
And say “now we should able –
Kidding! psych!”
We ask them for bread and get “let them eat cake”
They figure a stomach ache will break
the strike
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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July 20, 2010 12:39 PM
Where's my burrito! Where's my burrito! Where's my burrito!
/simpsons reference
Seriously though, I hope Seed gets its shit together.
Posted by: theflyingtrilobite
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July 20, 2010 12:40 PM
I think the decisions made by the sciencebloggers who left are sound: I also applaud that yourself, Greg Laden, Orac and others who are still here are dealing directly with the problems and not carrying on as usual.
How to improve? I can't offer any new suggestions, but transparency and communication from upper management are the #1 priorities in my experience. SMG needs to listen to the bloggers on the front lines.
Good for you PZ.
Posted by: benjamindbrooks
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July 20, 2010 12:40 PM
I hope that SEED fix the problems that they have inadvertantly created.
However if it does all go "tits-up" is it an unfeasible/unworkable option for all the ScienceBloggers to club together and create a truly independent network? I'm sure there are some Computer Science grad's/bloggers out there more than willing to take on the challenge?
You never know, the add revenues might be higher...
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 20, 2010 12:41 PM
I don't really know squat about this Richard Dawkin's forum thing, but it seems kind of unrelated. Seems like changing the terms on your own forums is a bit different from the current case, in which Seed has recruited bloggers as individuals to it's site, where it profits (I assume) from the ad revenue they generate and writes them a check for a portion of that ad revenue. From reading what Bora wrote, it seems that this revenue is a major income stream for Seed. This creates a business relationship (one that is very close to employer/employee) between Seed and its bloggers. That relationship includes certain responsibilities. A forum has no responsibility to its users except those set out in its terms, conditions, and rules, which ought to be subject to change at any time. But like I said, I'm just talking out my ass since I don't know anything about the Richard Dawkins forums. I avoid anything with "forum" in the name.
Posted by: foolfodder
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July 20, 2010 12:41 PM
/delurk
Good luck PZ in your honourable fight against the fascist pig-dogs!!!
/relurk
Posted by: rturpin
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July 20, 2010 12:42 PM
Your demands are too small. Demand more: that ScienceBlogs be run independently, with the bloggers in charge of editorial issues, and blogger participation in management decisions. Seed Media Group gets a fee, including fraction of advertising revenue, for technical maintenance of the infrastructure.
Oh, and signing bonuses. Geez, PZ. You'll give biology professors a bad reputation with your wimpy demands. ;-)
Posted by: jcwelch
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July 20, 2010 12:42 PM
you went on strike by generating an assload of traffic for their ad stats?
Maybe not the most effective way?
Posted by: rni.boh
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July 20, 2010 12:43 PM
You can add my wife to the list of SciBlings leaving.
Ironically, I've written an application to join Sb. I'm sure it's a good career move.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 20, 2010 12:44 PM
yeah but
yeah but
uh
let me know if you need building-occupation stooges
Posted by: raven
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July 20, 2010 12:45 PM
Oh Cthulhu. Scienceblogs was my favorite website. But it isn't hard to be a reader of the immense but dwindling content. Well written posts by a huge variety of scientists.
It shouldn't be that hard for scienceblogs to communicate with its staff and bloggers. Email was invented a long time ago and travels at the speed of light.
Oh well, the internet is always changing. I used to spend time on Usenet two decades ago and haven't visited there in over a year.
The ads don't bother me. Ads are everywhere and Seed has to have a revenue stream. But who is going to join scientology or play the dress up cartoon pets game?
Have to admit though that scienceblogs was and still might be an effective platform for PZ Myers and the rest of the bloggers.
Posted by: Travis
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July 20, 2010 12:46 PM
jcwelch, while I am sure there will be a peak in traffic here how long will that last? I doubt the traffic will remain high if no new content comes in. And this place is responsible for a huge amount of Sb traffic.
Posted by: Copyleft
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July 20, 2010 12:47 PM
*Honk-honk in support of the strikers*
Posted by: llewelly
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July 20, 2010 12:47 PM
Hank Fox | July 20, 2010 12:22 PM:
I just started following PZ on twitter, as an alternative to following pharyngula here.
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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July 20, 2010 12:48 PM
But, but, if you close comments it will finally kill the "Thread that will not die". Damn you, Seed!
Posted by: Danish
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July 20, 2010 12:49 PM
I'd advise against running your own site unless you are willing to put a substantial amount of both time and money into it. While a low-traffic site can be run without too much knowledge or effort, it takes quite a lot more expertise running a high-traffic site like yours.
I hope you either decide to stay here or find a well-run site that lives up to your ideals. Good luck!
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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July 20, 2010 12:50 PM
Frantically searching internet for alternative squid porn sites...
Posted by: MoonShark
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July 20, 2010 12:50 PM
Big project, but... the comment system is goddamn stupid.
Make it like the arstechnica.com forums, where there is a dedicated thread tied to the relevant article, but the same thread is also anchored in a robust phpBB forum system with proper quote functionality, editing of posts, personal profiles, etc.
I often WANT to read the witty and incisive comments here, but using mile-long scrollbars on a laptop trackpad sucks ass. I'm tired of fighting it.
Posted by: raven
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July 20, 2010 12:51 PM
Time right now for Seed to communicate to its bloggers and readers.
Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Right now, what we see is a huge forest fire being swept along by a 25 mile/hour Santa Ana wind.
Posted by: R. Schauer
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July 20, 2010 12:51 PM
Watch out, PZ...Seed may call in the troops and we'll have a Ludlow Massacre on our hands!
Seriously, good luck...Seed is blowing it.
Posted by: Michelle R
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July 20, 2010 12:54 PM
"We see the ads that appear on site getting cheesier and cheesier"
What are you talking about? I just created my ideal woman using an ugly, deformed, anatomically impossible cartoon chick!
Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD)
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July 20, 2010 12:54 PM
Yeah. Yesterday's 190,000 page views is probably more than all the sites I manage combined.Posted by: Not Guilty
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July 20, 2010 12:55 PM
Lucky for me, I'm going on vacation for a week tomorrow so I wasn't going to be able to read anyways! Hopefully I'll be coming back to new posts. Good luck!
Posted by: caseyhov
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July 20, 2010 12:55 PM
I have the same problems at work. For some reason, people in management positions are afraid to communicate. It's sad.
Posted by: zoot.cadillac
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July 20, 2010 12:56 PM
Why bother making a fuss? It appears that all of you provide content in exchange for a hosting service that reaps the benefit of your commendable and prolific content ( as a group ) in the way of advertising dollars.
It strikes me it would be much easier for you all to move to Blogger (google) and have your own individual blogs with a network of links to each other. You can then set up an adsense account and take your own advertising dollars.
I don't really see what seed does for you.
Posted by: unemployed
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July 20, 2010 12:56 PM
Hello PZ;
I sincerely hope Seed comes around, as I appreciate how difficult it is to have to reorganize any significant aspect of one's life, and how annoying when it seems obvious that it didn't have to happen.
If you do end up needing to do something entirely different and want someone to collaborate with, please let me know - as I may have mentioned - :) - I'm an unemployed IT guy with a reasonably serious educational and professional background in biology, and although I don't have a lot of experience with web publishing I do have lots of experience deciphering technical documentation and accomplishing quickly whatever needs to be done.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmsOUBwvn6eH3eAHEKgiOarz9ySNhPFqBk
|
July 20, 2010 12:56 PM
I'll still visit a few times a day - just to keep you in beer :)
Posted by: MikeyM
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July 20, 2010 12:56 PM
As we say in California, "Huelga!"
Posted by: daveau
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July 20, 2010 12:57 PM
You need one of those giant inflatable rats.
Really, Seed, PZ and others want to work this out. This is a reasonable step for them to take. We want Sb to continue, as well. But this is my last post and hit until I hear otherwise. Good luck.
Posted by: Dwpeabody
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July 20, 2010 12:57 PM
Damn... I'm at work with not a huge amount to do. refreshing pharyngula takes up aprox 15% of my day in compensation I would like an email or a phone call from you.
Or else... those are my demands>> now to sign up to fucking twitter god damnit I feel dirty.
Posted by: deiloh
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July 20, 2010 1:00 PM
Oky Doky, will check in a week to see if things are better. Good luck.
Posted by: jcwelch
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July 20, 2010 1:00 PM
Also, if you actually want to drop your traffic, take down your RSS feed. Feed readers check automatically, (sometimes every 30 minutes if set to "rude"), and so will generate a huge amount of traffic, even if you post nothing new for weeks, or even months.
Now, as Sb doesn't include ads in the news feeds, that traffic won't work for ad stats, but you'd be surprised at how little your traffic will drop if you have n people with their news readers pinging your site every hour or what have you.
Looking at the source, the feeds for this site at least are very odd. The xml file appears to be local, yet the internal references to a feedburner hosted feed. Normally, the only thing you want on the site itself is the feedburner URL, and you let that, and that alone, reference the actual feed xml file. That way, feed traffic doesn't come from the site as much. Kind of a suboptimal way of doing this, and you may wish to tweak it a bit in the future.
Posted by: Zuska
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July 20, 2010 1:05 PM
Best of luck with the strike, PZ. And with whatever comes after. I hope you can hold your community together, whether it is here or in a new venue.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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July 20, 2010 1:05 PM
The last time I was a regular commenter on a site that went on strike, the very last post became an endless thread until the site was shut down.
And forget about reading from a mobile. Maybe Sb is unaware that such things exist?
[Overturns a car and sets it alight in...um...solidarity!...yeah, that's the ticket: solidarity. FYI, the car fires set on Thursday through Monday were also in solidarity. Tuesday's was set in protest of an overly gristled 6-piece McNugget meal. Last Monday's was set in protest of...]
Posted by: jcwelch
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July 20, 2010 1:05 PM
@travis: A noted blogger starts a "strike", one that will be picked up by sites outside of Sb, and linked to over and over?
You don't seem to have an idea of how huge an echo chamber the 'blagosphere' can be. This post could generate jacked traffic levels for weeks, even months. Note that not knowing about this is a good thing. Shows you have a life. Don't change that. I have to be aware of this crap, and it's really depressing.
Posted by: harebell
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July 20, 2010 1:06 PM
I have respect for an action like this where you are actually trying to change policy by action.
The others are quitters who obviously didn't care about their blogging enough to give a crap.
Fight never quit.
Posted by: boboniboni
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July 20, 2010 1:06 PM
Strike? THATS A SOCIALIST THING. THATS EVIL. Thats AGAINST GOD AND YOUR GOD-GIVEN LIBERTY.
Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac)
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July 20, 2010 1:06 PM
Well, damn!
*sigh*
Cold turkey time.
Posted by: gussnarp
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July 20, 2010 1:07 PM
For those reluctant to sign up for Twitter, you don't have to. Just go here: twitter.com/pzmyers
Posted by: jeff.satterley
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July 20, 2010 1:08 PM
Wow. Hopefully this mess can be sorted out soon. Good luck, PZ. It'll be tough not having Pharyngula to read, but I certainly understand and support your decision.
Posted by: BrianX
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July 20, 2010 1:08 PM
You know, it occurred to me a couple of days ago -- given the content agreement a while back with National Geographic, maybe Adam should just sell the entire thing to NatGeo as a whole, take the money, and run.
Posted by: Epinephrine
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July 20, 2010 1:12 PM
Looks like Grrlscientist has also decided to leave scienceblogs.
Posted by: OMGWTFBBQ
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July 20, 2010 1:12 PM
What exactly does Casaubon's Book have to do with science anyway? Shouldn't it be on GardeningBlogs.com or something?
Posted by: robinfried
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July 20, 2010 1:13 PM
Seriously, if you want to set up your site fresh and import it from where it is now easily... you must look at http://www.squarespace.com it's like a breathe of fresh unpolluted O2.
Posted by: llewelly
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July 20, 2010 1:14 PM
Wherever people who are not management create content, there is the possibility - and in the long run, the inevitability - of severe disconnect between the goals of management and the needs of content creators. Sometimes this disconnect brings the whole edifice crashing down. Internet venues seem particularly vulnerable to this problem - as we have seen with IIDB, with rd.net, and now, with scienceblogs .
The community, as before, will march on, but another favorite pub appears to be going out of business.
Posted by: Darren Garrison
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July 20, 2010 1:14 PM
Okay, how is all of this the fault of Sarah Michelle Gellar?
Posted by: LMR
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July 20, 2010 1:14 PM
PZ, I'd advise against the suggestions to run your own server, unless you want that to be your job. I manage a site with a bit more traffic than yours, so I have a pretty good idea of what you'd need. For someone, like me, who manages stuff like this for a living, I can keep on top of it with relatively little effort. But your main job is to produce content, and you don't want to sink all your time managing things like bandwidth usage as well as needing to do all the upgrades (that Seed is not managing well) yourself. (If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them. I'm assuming you see the email passed in from TypePad when I log in. If not, I used the same nickname before the registration system where you'd have the email.)
I hope Seed listens (as your demands are not unreasonable) and is able to repair their damage with their bloggers.
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 20, 2010 1:14 PM
Well, I guess I'm a scab, but at least I'm not giving SMG any ad dollars in the meantime. (AdBlock Plus 4 lyfe, yo!)
Posted by: Dania
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July 20, 2010 1:15 PM
Damn.
Well, good on you, PZ. I hope Seed wakes up quickly.
(And I will stop commenting, except on the endless thread. Until all the comments are closed, that is...)
Posted by: SEF
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July 20, 2010 1:19 PM
@ TGAP Dad #25:
I put one of my scabs under a microscope once. So I wondered what google images would find for "scab". There was quite a variety of meanings represented but I thought this example in particular was meritworthy.
Posted by: za7ch84
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July 20, 2010 1:20 PM
UNITE HERE!
Bloggers of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but our chains!
Posted by: Form&Function
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July 20, 2010 1:20 PM
This SUCKS! I'm so sorry it's come to this. Of course you have my support, but I can only say I hope Seed comes around. It'd be a shame if Scienceblogs folds over something so fixable.
Posted by: llewelly
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July 20, 2010 1:20 PM
by the way - those concerned with privacy (all five of you) should note that if Sb goes down, Seed goes down with it. This matters because the severs hosting Sb have a database connecting commenter names with IP addresses (Or, in some cases, with sets of IP addresses). In some cases these IP addresses reveal where the commenter lives, or where they work, or both. With further mining, more personal information could be obtained. What happens to such data when the managing business is found floating face down in the water, unmoving? Well, usually the hard drives are sold on ebay and formatted by the next owner. But sometimes the data is sold to advertisers to help pay down debts. Or to people posing as advertisers ... or to people posing as ordinary schmoes looking for a cheap hard drive.
Posted by: Sunday Afternoon
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July 20, 2010 1:20 PM
Best wishes PZ. Hope you and The Management are able to come to a reconciliation.
If so, maybe those who left might come back???
Posted by: MarleysGh0st
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July 20, 2010 1:22 PM
I'll respect your picket line, which means I can't come back here to check if the strike is over.
Best of luck with your demands, PZ. Tweet when the strike is over.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 1:24 PM
Time to turn on AdBlock at home. This is the only site I left unblocked.
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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July 20, 2010 1:25 PM
Oh my goodness oh my goodness.
In a selfish way, I'm about to take an extended internet break, so good timing there. In a more serious vein, you definitely have my support whatever you do.
Posted by: justlurking
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July 20, 2010 1:26 PM
WTF am I gonna do now?
Posted by: The_Evelyonian
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July 20, 2010 1:27 PM
Best of luck PZ
Hopefully SMG will come to their senses soon.
Posted by: abb3w
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July 20, 2010 1:27 PM
Sounding out the management at DiscoverBlogs might be the next step to turning up the heat.
Posted by: Quidam
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July 20, 2010 1:27 PM
How about making your serious posts on richarddawkins.net
The good ones tend to be mirrored there anyway
Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau
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July 20, 2010 1:29 PM
This sucks. Hope it works :/
Good luck!
Posted by: zoot.cadillac
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July 20, 2010 1:31 PM
also I must admit that the only way any blog on scienceblogs is remotely readable is by using adblock plus and ghostery. Otherwise the sheer amount of advertising and tracking is overly and inexcusably intrusive.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/kfv354lkm.JxzZc0cyRXo4qL4A--#0c188
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July 20, 2010 1:34 PM
Just honking my horn and waving to show my support for this strike as I drive by.
Oh, and I brought more coffee & donuts!
Posted by: timpanogos.wordpress.com
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July 20, 2010 1:35 PM
Look: You could set up a picket line. You can post under a pseudonym at some backwater blog, and bring your friends with you. Every post accompanied by a picket sign.
Let me add that Millard Fillmore's Bathtub is a complete act of charity, paying nothing. I'd be happy to host your picket line. The next Sciblogger there will have to join the ex-Salt Lake Tribune columnist wandering the wilderness that is Ensenada -- but if you think a strike won't go much over two weeks, it could be worked out.
I'd be even happier about it if y'all would vote to organize for collective bargaining first, but that's not a requirement.
I suppose these episodes show us that there is no good idea so powerful that botched execution can't bollux it up.
Posted by: https://openid.org/cujo359
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July 20, 2010 1:36 PM
Good luck with this. I'm one of those who suspect that Seed would really just like the Science Blogs problem to go away. The lack of support and paychecks both suggest that.
As for suggestions, I suggest they fix the comment registration feature. I have logged in both with my OpenID sig, and with the Google ID one. This is OpenID. My Google ID is completely unrecognizable as me. It's pretty obvious that they're putting the wrong string in the user name field. Yet it's been like this ever since they "fixed" it.
Posted by: szwagier.myopenid.com
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July 20, 2010 1:38 PM
Supporting!
Posted by: jaranath
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July 20, 2010 1:39 PM
Suggestions:
1. Enhance the commenting mechanism for quick-n-easy HTML and such, like buttons. Seriously...it's one of my biggest gripes about this place...which should tell you something, Seed. A minor detail like that is one of the few real gripes I have? I love this place, there isn't much you have to do to keep a regular, loyal reader, and yet you're not bothering to do anything at all.
2. In that vein, your loyal reader is BEGGING you for targeted ads. SELL ME STUFF! PLEASE!!! I WANT to see ads that are for things that interest me, things I want to know more about, things I might actually buy. Go look at Penny Arcade; they get it. I click through roughly 10-20% of their ads depending on the current crop. The games, sites and products they link to interest me. I'd actually be UNHAPPY if they dropped their ads, and I don't try to block them. But here at Seed I have probably only ever clocked through a dozen ads total, and that's before the almost insultingly cheesy ones started.
And yeah, I think for the strike's sake, comments should close.
Posted by: iHunger
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July 20, 2010 1:40 PM
I like the idea of PZ guest blogging around the net until this gets sorted out.
BTW: If you do decide to strike-out on your own and you need a sponsor, let me know. Our company sometimes sponsors bloggers in exchange for a small button or banner.
Posted by: hznfrst
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July 20, 2010 1:40 PM
Well, here's my perennial technical problem: it takes much longer for a comment to get posted here than anywhere else! I tried to report this to the site but was completely ignored, and this one example of the lack of technical support means I won't miss it if it goes down for good.
Another big annoyance is the lack of any kind of search function, something which should have been a sine qua non long since.
Pharyngula, though, will most assuredly show up somewhere else, yes....?
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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July 20, 2010 1:42 PM
Well ... Of course, I'm offering support and best of luck and all that to PZ and his fellow bloggers.
Pharyngula is so much better than any other blogs, that haveI tended in the past to ignore any flaws in the infrastructure.
Hopefully the strike will be effective, and attention will be paid.
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
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July 20, 2010 1:42 PM
Sigh. So be it. I will not cross the line.
'Til whenever, all, I guess.
Posted by: Newfie
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July 20, 2010 1:43 PM
same here.
"Scienceblogs" indeed. SMG obviously doesn't give two shits for their bloggers and readers.
I say, "Fuck 'em!", move on.
Posted by: dfregon
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July 20, 2010 1:44 PM
I'm sure there must be other systems administrators/hosting providers out there?
I am willing to work with others on alternative hosting, or work on something myself but it would need information on expected traffic, hits, format of software required etc for options.
I host some fairly high traffic sites some running across multiple servers, I can put my foot in the water and say I will support any effort to work on an alternative option, but as stated it would need some input regarding the current arrangement so as to make any transition quick and with as little fuss for yourself as possible.
I can be contacted via the Atheist Foundation of Australia if something is in the works and needing systems admins/developers to help out, (not sure about putting my contact here), I'll also email you PZ so you have it on file.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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July 20, 2010 1:44 PM
As has been said, if this is really gonna hurt, close comments as well. As long as we can access your posts, the ads will still load.
And now I see that guestblogging has already been suggested. I like it. That way you get to hurt Seed twice by not just taking your business elsewhere, but ours too. And you get to keep blogging.
I guess as an act of sympathy, I'll leave the remainder of your posts in Google Reader (despite my being so horribly behind) until a resolution is announced. No more Thread either - though that hurts.
A bientôt.
Posted by: Blake Stacey
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July 20, 2010 1:46 PM
The servers which host Skepchick might be able to handle the Pharynguload. This is just a guess, based on what I half-remember hearing Rebecca Watson saying about how the site was set up, plus the relative sizes of the traffic influxes I've gotten from here and from there.
Posted by: MrFire
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July 20, 2010 1:51 PM
Shit!
Perhaps it's too late for this to get through. I just wanted to say: do what you gotta do PZ. We'll be here when you return.
*steps into stasis chamber*
Posted by: sphex
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July 20, 2010 1:52 PM
Heartbroken at the prospect of being without my Pharyngula "fix", but completely supportive of your decision.
And I'll follow you wherever you go, if you decide to go.
Posted by: Ibis3, féministe avec un titre française de fantaisie
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July 20, 2010 1:54 PM
Good luck with your efforts, PZ. I'll follow wherever you end up if you decide to leave and in the mean time, I'll stay away so as not to cross the picket line (I've got you on Twitter, so I'll be able to keep up with developments).
Solidarity.
Posted by: John J Koehler
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July 20, 2010 1:55 PM
You asked for suggestions:
I would love to see scienceblogs create a mobile version of the site. Most other blogs have this ability, and have for years. The ads they've inflicted on us have made the site much less readable from a mobile phone.
Otherwise I'd like to state my solidarity with you and your other readers. I will naturally follow you wherever you decide to go (like I did with Carl Zimmer and now Bora), and you can rest assured that I will not click on any more seed ads until they meet your demands.
Posted by: potomac9499
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July 20, 2010 2:04 PM
PZ, due to the recent news Thinking Critically is extending an offer of a new home for your blogging: http://thinking-critically.com/2010/07/20/an-open-invitation-to-pz-myers/
you know you want to ;-)
Posted by: windy
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July 20, 2010 2:05 PM
Never give up, never surrender!
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmNcZwm5RQmGyUHeqEu-d-vTq9JGqUvDIs
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July 20, 2010 2:05 PM
I've been checking this site daily for years; I've posted once or twice. When I see a call to man the lines I can't help but pitch up and show some support... even if this sort of flying picket is illegal in the UK now.
Solidarity.
Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification
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July 20, 2010 2:06 PM
Good luck on the efforts and know that many of us will be back no matter how long the strike takes or where you have to go.
Whatever you need to do is fully supported by us.
Posted by: John J Koehler
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July 20, 2010 2:08 PM
One last thing before the comments close (if you choose to do so)...
I am a graphic designer, and offer you my services for free in reciprocity for all the years of great reading, and thought-provoking articles.
Posted by: uppity cracka
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July 20, 2010 2:09 PM
but the other skeptic sites aren't nearly dickish enough.
Posted by: Steve LaBonne
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July 20, 2010 2:09 PM
Good luck. You won't be hard to find, wherever you end up. But Scienceblogs- with such a variety of interesting blogs in one place- will be missed. Ah well, all good things must come to an end.
Posted by: Ken Kressin
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July 20, 2010 2:10 PM
Never commented before... but I appreciate this freethinking blog and will definitely be around when it is resolved. Hoping a couple of books by PZ can be published in the meantime :)
Posted by: Orac
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July 20, 2010 2:10 PM
Should I stay or should I go?
I don't know, but it's looking grim.
Posted by: Eric Saveau
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July 20, 2010 2:11 PM
Hey, Walton,
A year-and-a-half-ago, you asked me question regarding regarding my view of you. I didn't answer immediately because I was thoroughly exhausted with our fight, and I didn't answer later because a bunch of life stuff intervened and I was gone from Pharyngula. But the answer would have been Yes; that was really how I saw you.
But now I'm back (perhaps just in time to see the lights go off! Yikes!) and I wanted to say that even though I haven't been commenting I have been reading (hi, everybody!) and you, Walton, have come one hell of a long way in that time. Your personal and intellectual growth has been an encouraging thing to behold, and it speaks very well of you. If the lights do go out here, I wanted to make sure sure you knew that first.
Posted by: heligal
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July 20, 2010 2:11 PM
If you blog because you like it -- and I really believe you do, since I blog for the same reason -- I think you should start guest blogging all over the net. A post here, a post there. Everywhere you go, your fans will follow. That's when the powers that be here will get an idea of what they're missing.
Good luck to you.
Posted by: broboxley OT
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July 20, 2010 2:12 PM
@PZ sent you an email about alternatives (if it comes to that) will now down keyboard for the duration
Posted by: Michelle R
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July 20, 2010 2:12 PM
Wow, that's pretty cool from Thinking Critically to do that!
(Of course, PZ moving anywhere would bring a LOT of traffic and attention to whatever the site is.)
Posted by: wyogold
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July 20, 2010 2:12 PM
I use adblock for my firefox browser - I didn't even know there are ads :-)
Posted by: dr-rieux
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July 20, 2010 2:15 PM
Count me as not worried about/by this.
First, either SMG will meet the strike demands, or they won't. If they do, great. If not, PZ will soon simply be blogging from somewhere else, and the Horde will ensure that it's a site that can handle our numbers and activities. No big deal--Pharyngula has always spoiled us with its total lack of real "blog breaks" anyway. (As a once-and-failed blogger, I have always wondered how the guy gets enough stamina to do all this.)
Second, if ScienceBlogs is sinking as fast (and as inevitably) as PZ and Bora, among others, make it out to be, more good blogs leaving sooner rather than later is really just a case of pulling off a Band-Aid faster rather than slower. The Sciblogs I read will survive here or elsewhere; I know I've got a lot less invested here, emotionally or otherwise, than several of the departed bloggers do. So why worry?
Finally, as some have suggested, a strike will finally afford PZ the opportunity to finish that damn book. Get it published already!
Meanwhile, we can take the unruly atheisting to, say, Jerry Coyne's and Ophelia Benson's places. Jerry and Ophelia may not be PZ, but they certainly have no love for the Empire.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/SaqGVG0xvJEQVwURVamS3DTCdvov0BLhXK1jOsYPPJQ-#b4893
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July 20, 2010 2:15 PM
Tally my vote in the "It's too late" column.
I know you're saying that you have to set up another blog elsewhere, and you're not sure what steps to take, and so forth.
It's not that bad. Remember that new car you bought 15 years ago? Well, the car-buying process hasn't changed much. If you did it then, you can do it now.
Except now it's probably easier to set up a new blog. Just let me know where you're going so I can update my bookmarks. Or, heck, I'll just google it, and find it myself inside 30 seconds.
Posted by: Dark Matter
|
July 20, 2010 2:17 PM
'fraid there will be much rejoicing in
fundyland tonight though....
Regardless of whatever happens may you continue
to be a thorn in the foot and a bramble in the
hand of the Dark One From Above...
Posted by: beigeman
|
July 20, 2010 2:20 PM
Well, I guess I'll take a hit and avoid visiting until I hear on the grapevine that the situation has changed. For better of for worse.
*sigh*
-1 unique visitor!
Posted by: otrame
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July 20, 2010 2:21 PM
*humming Joe Hill
My tentacles are clenched in Salute. With you all the way, PZ.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmNcZwm5RQmGyUHeqEu-d-vTq9JGqUvDIs
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July 20, 2010 2:22 PM
Having just posted here I flickrd over to The Guardian, only to find this piece of shiterature:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jul/20/pepsico-scienceblog-bloggerati?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments
Posted by: cfmilner
|
July 20, 2010 2:23 PM
*hands round the tea and cucumber sandwiches*
Now all we need is Billy Bragg and a guitar :)
Posted by: Terryl Stacy
|
July 20, 2010 2:24 PM
Dear PZ,
Not sure I can live without my daily fix of Pharyngula. I hope this situation gets resolved soon.
Posted by: chumpapagwa
|
July 20, 2010 2:27 PM
What? But who will provide me with Sunday Sacrilege and Cephalopods? Time to turn on some weepy music and mourn the loss (however temporary).
PZ, do what you have to do. But just know that I am awaiting your return with bated breath.
Posted by: Nemo
|
July 20, 2010 2:28 PM
PZ, this may not apply to you, but from reading others' departure posts, there also seems to be an issue with Seed not actually paying people. Surely that's the best reason of all for a strike, and something that ought to be included in your demands.
Posted by: Doc Bill
|
July 20, 2010 2:31 PM
Look on the bright side.
At least SEED hasn't offered a blog to Casey Luskin!
Yet.
Posted by: procrastinator.myopenid.com
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July 20, 2010 2:33 PM
Maybe now I'll get something done around here. I will surely miss Sunday Sacrilege.
Posted by: TGAP Dad
|
July 20, 2010 2:34 PM
@101 SEF
Those bandages are totally cool - I'm getting some!
Posted by: H.H.
|
July 20, 2010 2:34 PM
Evaporating revenue? Missed paychecks? A pattern of silence and disengagement? A lot of people seem to want to blame Pepsi for the decline of Scienceblogs, but my guess is that someone in upper management has a Coke problem.
Posted by: Stephen_P
|
July 20, 2010 2:46 PM
It seems fairly clear to me what the problem is, and it's a bit odd that no-one else has said it. Seed is on the verge of bankruptcy. No, I have no inside information, but I've seen this more than once before, and everything fits the pattern.
You may say that this does not explain the lack of communication, that it would be silly for a management in financial problems to turn its back on the very people who might be able to help. Well, I do not know why management crawls into its shell in this situation - maybe a passing psychologist can tell us. But it happens.
Again, I have no inside information, and no way of knowing whether they will pull through - though the info PZ gives is not promising. But put in this light (I nearly said 'framed' there) it may possibly give one or two of you cause to rethink your comments.
Posted by: omnipasje
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July 20, 2010 2:48 PM
I support your strike PZ. I hope your demands are met.
I'll check twitter more often to see updates on how it's going.
Yuck.. twitter! See what you made me do!
Posted by: Dae
|
July 20, 2010 2:49 PM
As a reader, I've loved the network and the resident blogs. My only wish for the improvement of Sb is that Seed listens to its bloggers and moves back toward being an environment you and the others want to blog within - a network is only as good as the people that make it up.
In the meantime, I will be continuing to read Blag Hag and Skepchick, and missing Pharyngula sorely. :(
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
|
July 20, 2010 2:50 PM
Solidarity with PZ!
Grrlscientist just left too now. :(
Posted by: Draken
|
July 20, 2010 3:05 PM
#160, Stephen, exactly my thoughts: this smells of impending bankruptcy.
Reasons why management might want to maintain radio silence are, for example, an attempt not to cause (more) panic, or fear to cause confusion because management itself hasn't gotten it sorted out, or downright discord or malfeasance inside management (think of your local football club's bookkeeper who's ran away with all the money).
Posted by: Nurse Ingrid
|
July 20, 2010 3:10 PM
As a former Union Maid, I will most assuredly not be crossing this picket line.
I'll be over here, nursing my withdrawal symptoms, until Pharyngula comes back victorious.
Till then,
"which side are you on, which side are you on?"
Posted by: DLC
|
July 20, 2010 3:16 PM
ON STRIKE
Posted by: truthspeaker
|
July 20, 2010 3:18 PM
I predict SMG will ignore this, so I hope you're shopping for new blog hosts already. From personal experience, I strongly recommend NOT using Blogger.
Posted by: TCC
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July 20, 2010 3:22 PM
I won't be crossing the line either. I'll watch the pz myers twitter feed (listed in the upper left column of this page) to see if/when some accommodations are reached.
Posted by: Savior Breath
|
July 20, 2010 3:29 PM
PZ,
You are like the professor I never had in college. The engineering department at my goliath state university was very impersonal. I feel at home on Pharyngula. I'm among friends. Best of all, I have an intellectual champion for my most intense interest -- dispelling the ubiquitous assertion that Abrahamic faiths are the source of all goodness.
I stand with you.
Posted by: raven
|
July 20, 2010 3:29 PM
I'm sure a few fundies will be happy if Scienceblogs Pharyngula dies.
But in 3 days, Pharyngula will arise from the dead in a new reincarnation.
Sort of a Hindu version of the jesus story. They may have to adjust their theology a little bit.
Posted by: James Boggs
|
July 20, 2010 3:29 PM
I signed up to comment on this one post.
I simply wanted to say that the very thought of going days or weeks without your words is a crushing blow. I won't go into the gory details that is my rapidly imploding life, but I've been reading for almost a year, and in the last few months reading this blog has essentially been the highlight of each day.
Just the idea of what you do is inspiring, your words carry titanic weight, and following your blog touches my life in big ways and smalls ways every day.
Hope to see you again sometime soon.
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
|
July 20, 2010 3:34 PM
Well, maybe this means PZ will finish his book faster now. :) Does he have a publisher?
Posted by: realinterrobang
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July 20, 2010 3:36 PM
Seed should definitely be doing more to keep its bloggers happy. Note to Seed: Yeah, you're trying to sell ads, but without eyeballs for those ads, your ad space isn't worth the electrons it's printed on, and your bloggers bring the eyeballs. Remember that.
Me, I put Adblock on "smite" for this site after those horrible sexist game ads that were basically "BOOBIES! Play our game!" started showing up all over the place. If Seed would put up the kinds of ads that would appeal to most of its readership (instead of just the perpetual-adolescent-boy segment of the crowd), and made sure that ads for cults, cranks, and quack remedies didn't get through, I'd probably unsmite the ads, and I'm willing to bet lots of other people would. Jus' sayin'. (Try things like geeky t-shirts, tie-dyed lab coats, and Cthulhu plush toys, if you're looking for suggestions.)
In the meantime:
Have we anything in common with the greedy parasite
Who will enslave us with his power and then crush us with his might
Is there anything that we can do but organise and fight
For the union makes us strong!
Solidarity forever
Solidarity forever
Solidarity forever
For the union makes us strong!
Posted by: JacobCH
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July 20, 2010 3:43 PM
I feel exactly the same way as James in #171 but couldn't have said it nearly as well.
Solidarity.
Posted by: someotherguy86
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July 20, 2010 3:44 PM
Seeing as how ScienceBlogs gets about 1 x 10^9 more page views than the online version of Seed Magazine--and, presumably, makes more money because of this--you'd think that SMG would be more concerned at the now very real possibility of SB actually dying off. Weird.
Posted by: Kobra
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July 20, 2010 3:46 PM
Wow, now I need to find something else to do instead of reading Pharyngula.
Who's up for trolling "spiritual mediums" and other con artists?
Posted by: maureen.brian#b5c92
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July 20, 2010 3:46 PM
Total solidarity. And I'll see you wherever you turn up next.
Posted by: dr-rieux
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July 20, 2010 3:49 PM
James Boggs @ 171:
Surely this can't last long. Either SMG will cave or PZ will leave. I can't imagine that our host is willing to wait long, amid continued silence from SMG, before packing up his things (all 42+% of SciBlogs' traffic!) and exiting.Days, maybe. Weeks? I can't understand how that could actually happen.
Posted by: howard.peirce
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July 20, 2010 3:58 PM
@ Stephen (160), Draken (164): Having worked for a number of troubled companies over the years, I would say that we won't know for sure that Seed is bankrupt until they send an email to the remaining Sb'ers, saying, "You may have heard recent rumors of our impending bankruptcy. Rest assured that our financials are in sound shape." Once Corporate starts denying rumors, you know it's true.
Any New York-based minions care to walk over to SMG's offices and peek through the windows? I half suspect they'll see a room, stripped of furniture, with only a single, hopelessly tangled ball of ethernet cable lying in the middle of the floor.
Posted by: riftpoint
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July 20, 2010 4:01 PM
I think I've only ever posted once or twice here, but I've loved this blog since I discovered it in 2007, checking daily (if not hourly) for the posts that are continuously spun forth by PZ. Maybe Seed needs to hear from us Pharyngulites (and other readers from the various other blogs) in such a way that says "hey, forget your magazine at the moment, your target group is over here, and when you loose your sciencebloggers, you loose us!"
If anyone can find any contact information besides the regular mailing address or the salespeople's e-mail address (or perhaps we should be contacting the sales reps?) please let me know, I would greatly appreciate being able to let Seed know exactly how important a smoothly running Scienceblog site is to me!
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnuRmaEKSLJcJ7NJ79GuX0VknV7HasKrIU
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July 20, 2010 4:04 PM
PZ,
Stay strong! If you need to do a blog post feel free to contact me and I will host you on my blog until the problem is fixed.
Anyone that is looking for another blog, feel free to visit www.skepticmoney.com. You are all welcome there.
Thank You
Phil Ferguson
Posted by: scottfmessinger
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July 20, 2010 4:05 PM
As much as I sympathize, most of us readers are just gonna drift away.
I subscribe to Pharyngula, not to "Seed". If you don't post, then I'll just forget about you.
You guys need to conduct your business in private.
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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July 20, 2010 4:07 PM
This is horrible. If PZ's weight can't move SB, then it's doomed.
During strike, I'd be happy to hear from Fake Wives and Pharyngulites at spokesgay at gmail dot com.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 4:07 PM
And the band played on...
Posted by: spanner
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July 20, 2010 4:11 PM
I really appreciate the strike and agree with others that closing comments, painful as that would be, would likely get more attention. If anything is going to get their attention.
From my corner of lurkerland, the few farewell blogs I've read (including Bora's brilliant historical analysis) sound a lot like "Hey, scienceblogs has been great for me - I massively increased my traffic, made a few bucks, met lots of helpful bloggers that improved my blogging immensely - and now that I've got mine, fuck you all!"
There's very little consideration for the effect of leaving sciblogs on the readership and that mimics Seed's lack of consideration for its bloggers.
I think a strike shows that consideration for the readers and the value that we see in this diverse community of bloggers far better than just jumping ship. Of course, it is also supportive of the scibloggers who maybe don't have such a loud voice or a large enough following to successfully go solo. So, thanks, PZ, and I hope others join you.
I also hope it works!
Posted by: Bostonian
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July 20, 2010 4:12 PM
As was stated by others, comment registration is an urgent bug. I almost never comment because my MovableType login only works if I do a password reset. This is not a real solution because it stops working when my browser session ends.
I sent an e-mail to webmaster@scienceblogs.com for support and received a rejection stating that I had contacted a list serv I wasn't allowed to e-mail. Way, way unprofessional - every serious site should have a working webmaster@ inbox, and a human should read what lands in it.
If they're working on comments anyway, threaded comments and rich text support (like with the free FCK Editor) would be nice. If they need help they can let me know - it doesn't seem like they have a dedicated web team and I've been known to dabble.
Posted by: Newfie
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July 20, 2010 4:14 PM
What time do they start running ads for AIG, and the Disco Institute?
Posted by: dingdong
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July 20, 2010 4:16 PM
I'm a PHP developer usually. I'd offer my services but I think you've got that base covered.
I've recently starting developing a Droid app, and I can't help but notice a few mentions of viewing the site on mobiles.
How about a Pharyngula app? I can offer one of those...
Posted by: bionode
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July 20, 2010 4:16 PM
solidarity forever!
Posted by: drsmurph
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July 20, 2010 4:21 PM
sad to see the implosion and now PZ's strike but as many above comment, count me in as supporting the action; Adam's blog seems to be the tumbleweed of Sb with nary a word whatsoever
Posted by: geralcorasjo
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July 20, 2010 4:28 PM
Viva La Revolución!
I check this site incessantly so it'll be sad to see no updates for a few days, weeks, maybe even months..
Go alone PZ. I know the hosting is nice and so is the revenue but hosting your website like you used to before Seed is the only way you can keep your independence.
Please hurry back with something.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 20, 2010 4:34 PM
There are certain parallels and everything, but this isn't exactly a union shop and this isn't exactly a labor action. Keep perspective, all I'm saying.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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July 20, 2010 4:36 PM
I just don't know what to say.
It's so hard to figure out a strategy when the Great Guru of Communications has maintained a three-weeks-and-counting vow of silence. Without the scientific guidance of True Experts™, everybody knows that amateurs will just mess things up...
But... clearly the Master of Science-Speak, fully engaged in improving understanding among colleagues and public alike, knows ways of subtly passing messages to be fully grasped only after multiple meditations.
When we ask, as of course we must, What Would Matt Nisbet do, the fact that he hasn't posted at SciBlogs since last month speaks for itself. Obviously, he saw the whole debacle coming, and simply pre-empted our esteemed host by launching his own strike before any of the rest of us could begin to comprehend his masterful grand design.
Thank God Prof. Myers finally caught up and figured out what he was supposed to do at last!
Posted by: HughMcB
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July 20, 2010 4:37 PM
Technical difficulties on your site PZ?
Along with being kept in the dark on all the issues?
An unhelpful and uncooperative admin?
Oh PZ!.......
I SO DO NOT WANT TO GET SUCKED INTO THE DRAMA!
(Let me taste your tears! Hahaha!)
Posted by: JacobCH
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July 20, 2010 4:37 PM
It's not a union shop but how is this NOT a labor action?
Posted by: Robin J
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July 20, 2010 4:46 PM
Good luck, PZ.
Posted by: KG
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July 20, 2010 4:47 PM
*Clenched tentacle salute*
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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July 20, 2010 4:48 PM
C'mon, Pierce. You think Matt has time to blog AND keep his hair looking great?
Posted by: Lee Christensen
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July 20, 2010 4:49 PM
PZ -- I just feel to add my own $0.002 here (I wish I could add $0.02, but times are hard...) Like many others I'm feeling a measure of sadness and separation anxiety right about now. Your blog provides a comforting dose of sanity and humor that I seek out many times a day. It doesn't look like Seed will come around, but if I could share a general lesson from my own life: Each hard knock brings new opportunities (double meaning there..) I'm sure you and your ilk will regroup and be stronger than ever.
Best of luck on your book.
Heck, I'll even sign my name here.
Lee Christensen
Posted by: Jon A
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July 20, 2010 4:50 PM
I'm stunned, pharyngula has become a part of my life. What Pepsico debacle/mess? What did I miss, cam someone explain? The creationists, nazis and quacks must be rubbing their hands with glee. :-(
Posted by: kmcharleston
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July 20, 2010 4:51 PM
Damn, Strike sounds like such a prole thing to do. I thought you 'cademic types wuz above that sort of thing. Your blog is part of my daily routine - this is gonna mess up my life, man. Even here at the pointy end of Africa we feel your pain.
On a purely technical note, any IT environment needs a help-desk/problem-tracking system. There are enough good ones out there - don't know how your point 3 could be managed without one.
Posted by: woozalia
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July 20, 2010 4:54 PM
PZ: I haz server space with decent bandwidth, and could set something up.
What I don't know is what kind of bandwidth we'd be looking at. I do know Pharyngula is pretty high-traffic, but how many actual GB/month, or page accesses/day, or peak MB/minute, or any other metrics you might have access to?
Also, what non-obvious features would you consider necessary to make a venue usable for Pharyngula?
Posted by: Deviant One
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July 20, 2010 4:57 PM
Posting in solidarity.
Posted by: Gavin
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July 20, 2010 5:05 PM
Advert for SCIENTOLOGY TODAY right beside the article - are they just rubbing it in!?
Posted by: woozalia
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July 20, 2010 5:06 PM
Update: I finally noticed the sitemeter link... doing some math, but the necessary bandwidth tentatively doesn't look beyond the realm of the possible.
Posted by: W. H. Heydt
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July 20, 2010 5:07 PM
Make sure you have a *complete* backup copy of everything you've posted on Pharyngula. Then make a second copy and store it off site (your office would be a good place). Make sure you can read both copies.
--W. H. Heydt
Old Used Programmer
Posted by: Lucy Fur
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July 20, 2010 5:10 PM
One possibility for Seed to raise money could be to include a general micropayment possibility like Flattr (flattr.com), which allowes users to pay a small fee for artikels they like.
I have seen it alot in the german blogoshere, and I think it has a real chance to get at least an additional source of income for bloggers or blognetworks like sienceblogs.com, especially with your traffic / readership.
Posted by: johnlil#0a224
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July 20, 2010 5:17 PM
I hope this gets worked out soon. Your blog is a big part of my extremely dreary life.
Since you're clearly the big fish in this particular pond, I predict you will prevail. Without you, this would just be a handful of narrow specialists who live in their parents' basements and talk to each other in specialized language no one else can follow.
I'll leave now. I feel like I'm crossing a picket line.
Posted by: Cobolt
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July 20, 2010 5:22 PM
There goes a better part of my day. You have my support PZ. I like demands 1, 2, 3 & 5 but I think 4 is a bit of a stretch. SEED is a privately run business and as such are not going to divulge sensitive information like the balance sheet. If you were freelancing for a newspaper would you expect the same openness from the paper?
If, however, you were in a co-operative with other bloggers then that would be an entirely different thing. In fact I think that would be a better path for yourself and the others of SciBlog.
You would each own a piece of the blog and receive revenue depending on the amount of traffic/revenue you bring in.
Elect a board among yourselves whose role it is to hire and guide the management of the blog site. The IT support, advertising sellers etc are all responsible to the co-operative, not shareholders or private business owners who demand a financial return on investment.
Membership could be by invitation only as agreed by the cooperative or their board.
Whatever you do I wish you good fortune PZ and a quick and favorable end your strike.
Posted by: jack.rawlinson
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July 20, 2010 5:24 PM
Sounds reasonable.
One request: if, as seems likely, Seed don't do much about this any time soon, do look into shifting elsewhere. We need our Pharyngula fix! Until then... get on with that damned book!
Given that you're the biggest fish in the pond it'll be kinda depressing if this doesn't shake 'em up but... well, we'll see.
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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July 20, 2010 5:24 PM
I really hope this works out somehow. I like the non-profit model as well and would be proud to be a member/contributor to such a venture.
Now how am I going to fill my days? I'll have to talk to Walton on FB, I suppose.
Posted by: Mousekewitz
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July 20, 2010 5:26 PM
Count me in as another supporter! I really hope this gets resolved soon. Not sure what I'll do without a regular dose of Pharyngula.
Posted by: HughMcB
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July 20, 2010 5:26 PM
First and foremost, it is not my site, and it is not your site. It is Science Blog's site. People have lost sight of the fact that SB have their own views on how the site should function, and they have the right and even the obligation to try and shape it to their goals. If you don't like it, fine, go somewhere else. I know, that sounds so cavalier, but that's the reality of it all. Science Blog spends the money to keep it going. They're the boss.
So PZ, move on. Adapt. Express yourself wherever. Check out new blogs when they emerge later.
This is not a crisis, it's a change.
Posted by: Louis
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July 20, 2010 5:30 PM
Three things:
1) I wish you had been able to avoid the DRAMA PZ, but you had to do what you had to do.
2) Solidarity, always.
3) I will miss Pharyngula having followed from the very start, and even batted fundies about with you on T.O. and elsewhere. I will follow Pharyngula wherever it goes. I wish you the very best.
Louis
P.S. Josh OSG, Sister wives, assorted lovelies of the internet. Although I have been relatively silent, such internet excitement will not tarnish my admiration for you fine folk. Keep the lack of faith! {Clenched tentacle salute}
Posted by: jcmartz.myopenid.com
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July 20, 2010 5:34 PM
Posted by: Null
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July 20, 2010 5:34 PM
Well, looks like I'll have to start spidering Pharyngula, just in case the shit hits the fan. I'll try to whip up a script to strip the ads and other stuff from the site, so it's just the articles and comments, but I'm not much of a coder, so I can't make any promises.
Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher
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July 20, 2010 5:41 PM
I hope the song is appropriate but not the images
Good luck PZ!
Posted by: Moira Manion
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July 20, 2010 5:41 PM
Just start a Blogspot blog, for heaven's sake. It might not offer all the bells and whistles you get here (I have no idea), but you can still write, and add videoes, graphics, etc., and have comments. F*** Science Blogs and move on.
Posted by: RBH
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July 20, 2010 5:41 PM
First IIDB, then Dawkins' forum, now ScienceBlogs. What is it with secular sites?
Posted by: Timaahy
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July 20, 2010 5:43 PM
PZ... I think your message would carry more weight if it was in Comic Sans.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 20, 2010 5:46 PM
They displease the goddesses, obviously.
In answer to somebody up there, this is a labor action exactly insofar as the blogger/server-host relationship is analogous to the labor/management relationship.
The comparison's pretty limited, imo.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/f59oXw1vj9gbO1NQtbSX4Q8QQsCyNQJ43IXyONaJrxch1T1.dYO20L0-#a57fd
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July 20, 2010 5:47 PM
As much as it hurts your readers to go for more than a couple hours without your witty posts, I think this is the right thing to do. I wish you good luck in getting SMG's attention. Meanwhile, your loyal fans will wait, sitting in dark corners in the fetal position, and shivering from withdrawal.
Posted by: Pen
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July 20, 2010 5:48 PM
You know what makes me sad is that Pepsi, who can basically afford to put what they want on the web anyway seem to be bringing about the collapse of a community of people who don't necessarily have such easy access.
I am really frustrated this evening. My immediate entourage consists solely of people who snort homeopathy in between reading Hello magazine, and now Science Blogs, the one intellectual spark on my horizon, might be going away! I don't think I can cope.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 20, 2010 5:50 PM
ON STRIKE
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 20, 2010 5:51 PM
!
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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July 20, 2010 5:54 PM
On another faux-solidarity note, now I have the "We're On Strike" song from Rocko's Modern Life* stuck in my head.
* Episode: "Popcorn Pandemonium", see "Garbage Strike: The Movie".**
** "The book was better." -Heffer Wolfe
Posted by: xunatz
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July 20, 2010 5:55 PM
The owners won't care. You'd best prepare for an alternative means of hosting your blog and I look forward to your consistent and regular posts.
Posted by: «bønez_brigade»
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July 20, 2010 5:57 PM
I'd recommend against closing off the comments whilst on strike. That would just prevent pharynguloids from communicating in their own house. Instead, visitors should refuse to clicky-click on the adverts (not that I see them, anyway). And prepare an external site (say, pharyngula.org) in case the mothership goes down.
Posted by: tauarmy
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July 20, 2010 5:58 PM
If we comment does that mean we are crossing your picket line as a consumer? Just curious. ;)
Best of luck with everything but I think you are better off just doing your own blog. You can then control your advertising space.
Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook
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July 20, 2010 5:59 PM
Best of luck! I think Seed and ScienceBlogs are now just the walking dead.
What I'd really like to see is a new site, hosting LOTS of blogs. I come to SB to read PZ & Orac, and then I click around the last 24 hours and the reader picks and find new stuff that I never knew I wanted to know.
Blogger isn't much chop; I wouldn't recommend it. It suits me fine, with my tiny readership, but I still get email telling me that comments are a pain. WordPress seems better for larger groups.
Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD)
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July 20, 2010 6:05 PM
HughMcB
I don't think anyone has actually forgotten that. Or if they have, I didn't notice them. That's exactly what he's threatening to do. He's just giving Seed a chance to convince him to stay. There's nothing wrong with that. Yes, they are the boss. PZ is giving them a chance to keep being the boss. He's saying to them "I'm not happy with this. If it's important to you that I stay, make me happier." Asking Seed to fix things in exchange for staying is not the same thing as taking control. None of his "demands" included making him the boss.
Posted by: Hekuni Cat, Champion of Oriana
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July 20, 2010 6:05 PM
As so many others have already said, I support the strike. That said, life without Pharyngula, even temporarily, will be hard. Thank you, PZ.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 20, 2010 6:07 PM
It seems like a science blogger syndicate would be a good way to go. Organizing across blog publishers and setting a minimum standard. There wouldn't need to be a centralized site for the science bloggers to publish on, but they could work collectively against the sort of neglect that has happened here, as well as against another pepsico sort of screw up.
There would, obviously, be problems organizing this, but the syndicate model allows for much more individual control than most others.
Posted by: AnthonyK
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July 20, 2010 6:07 PM
Ummm...WTF? Why has it all gone tits up? What, goddamm seed media has done what all the fuckwit sites couldn't?
What is it with you guys, yeah, even you PZ? So they gave Pepsi a blog, and then took it down? So fucking what?
So now most of the decent SB sites are going. And I just don't understand why.
Sorry, not impressed.
And upset.
Christ on a dildo, but you guys are sensitive.
Sniff.
Well, good luck anyway.
I've trusted your judgement all these years, so I guess I must now but........
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 20, 2010 6:09 PM
It's going down because the management has virtually ignored any complaints that the bloggers have had. Technical issues haven't been fixed in a year or so and none of the bloggers were consulted before the pepsi debacle. Not to mention that some bloggers have had trouble getting paid as they should.
Posted by: Pen
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July 20, 2010 6:15 PM
BTW, the people who suggested going to blogger. I wouldn't, I really wouldn't. I had a blog there and for some reason I offended somebody. I don't know if it was the atheism, the pro-evolutionism, the open dislike of MacDonalds or the supportive review of a kids movie set in Tunisia in the middle ages. I don't know. But some anonymous soul complained, and they pulled the blog without a second thought. They were utterly unreachable on the subject, as they are, I suppose, on all subjects.
The only way to run a blog like Pharyngula is on a private server.
Posted by: christian
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July 20, 2010 6:17 PM
Suggestions eh? How about a darker background than a florescent lightbulb? No other website I regularly visit hurts my eyes more than ScienceBlogs.
Posted by: ckitching
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July 20, 2010 6:28 PM
So, you could try by reading some of the words PZ, Bora, PalMD, GrrlScientist and the others have actually wrote. They're not quitting because of the pepsi blog. It was merely the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". It was a symptom of the core problems they're been upset about for years.
Who knew reading comprehension was so difficult?
Posted by: wccrawford
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July 20, 2010 6:30 PM
People follow people, not domains or blogs. If you left this domain, people would hardly notice. They'd just follow to wherever you set up next.
Internet sites that don't understand who butters their bread are stupid, and you can't teach them to be smart. They will never meet your demands because they don't understand them.
It's just like Facebook and its privacy issues. The CEO doesn't -understand- the issues, so they will never be fixed.
Do like your fellow bloggers: Find a new place, advertise it here, and leave.
Posted by: PZ Myers
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July 20, 2010 6:33 PM
I have heard from On High, and so far it's promising. We're going to start talking, which is always a good beginning.
So don't panic yet.
And yeah, I've been hearing from a lot of people about going independent. If it all falls apart, that will be one option, and it would happen fast.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 6:35 PM
*has tentacles crossed*Posted by: LeeLeeOne
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July 20, 2010 6:37 PM
PZ, I should have recognized the potential SEED problems when I paid for a subscription and got literally only 1 print copy and no access to any paid subscriber's on-line content. grrrr!
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 6:37 PM
Who knew reading comprehension was so difficult?
reading... how's that fucking work?
;)
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawm0qHctncgauPJ6_COgG9J2u8DnKBG3gpc
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July 20, 2010 6:38 PM
You have my support PZ.
Seriously though, we're a bunch of nerds. Between us there must be the power to create an independent blog dripping with functionality and aesthetic prowess?
I have experience in web design and development and would give as much time as I could, this blog is one of my all time favourite things in existence!
Get a pre-built blog engine, some hosted space and Google ads + donation requests for starters, then unleash the minions to retrieve committed sponsor accounts.
Posted by: Jeanette Garcia
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July 20, 2010 6:40 PM
PZ if you leave who will keep up the good fight? You have plenty of faithful readers who will continue to visit where ever you are. My gut feelings are to stay and hope the powers that be will come to their senses. Of course, I hate change. . . . WAAAA! Okay, that over, do what you have to do. I will follow you into that dark night or that happy new sun rise in some other corner of the universe, ah, Internet.
Posted by: RBH
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July 20, 2010 6:51 PM
Hm. After reading GrrlScientist's final post on leaving Sb, I'm not sure how one negotiates with someone who (if her description is to believed) doesn't negotiate in good faith.
Posted by: Joe Fogey
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July 20, 2010 6:54 PM
I guess I don't really understand the issues here, but one of the things I learned as a trades union agitator was don't walk out unless you can see a way back in (unless, that is, you have somewhere else to go). I guess there are places you can go, since this isn't your day job.
I'll miss your blog while you're on the picket line. I shall certainly honk my horn in support as I drive by. I hope Seed do sort it out. I enjoyed the serendipity of Sb - some interesting line in the side panel would lead to areas of science that I was unfamiliar with, usually brilliantly explained by someone I'd never otherwise have heard of.
Good luck!
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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July 20, 2010 6:54 PM
Billy Bragg singing "There is Power in a Union":
http://www.last.fm/music/Billy+Bragg/_/There+Is+Power+in+a+Union
I guess now I'll have time to finish the CivIV game I've been playing since May.
Posted by: Zeno
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July 20, 2010 6:55 PM
Well, that's encouraging, but I remember the Paris peace talks during the Vietnam War. Try not to get drawn into a long argument about the shape of the negotiating table.
Yet another advantage of virtual conferencing.
Posted by: forksmuggler
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July 20, 2010 6:59 PM
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!
That is all.
Posted by: John Morales
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July 20, 2010 7:01 PM
id=AItOawm0qHctncgauPJ6_COgG9J2u8DnKBG3gpc:
That's a wonderful aspiration — I like it.
(Shame you're not nerdish enough to fix your ID string, though. ;) )
--
About this event, I'll just say that either PZ is nobler than I, or he is smarter.
Or both.
Posted by: biggrz
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July 20, 2010 7:03 PM
PZ, this is exactly how big things REALLY get started. I wish the issues from SMB would drive the group of you who really keep this place alive into creating your OWN 'scienceblogs' with ethics intact!
Posted by: MosesZD
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July 20, 2010 7:04 PM
Mike Dunford... He's one of the Panda's Thumb people I like so much.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawk8nuEGr2AboPw3B5JlVHLruh87cSf2gi4
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July 20, 2010 7:10 PM
I second the php Bulletin Board/threaded comments feature. It does get exhausting trying to keep track of every post and thread by scrooooooolling and scrooooooolling and scrooooooolling... I would even sign up for an actual 'nym on a bulletin board, rather than the googlemess. and the ability to edit one's previous posts would also be peachy keen.
Solidarity! I'm outta here (and off to Twitter) until you let us know which way the calamari are swimming, PZ.
--Lauren Ipsum
P.S. Ironically, this week I had decided I was following too many blogs, so I cut down to Sullivan... and Pharyngula.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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July 20, 2010 7:23 PM
The vast majority of the regulars are divided on whether threaded comments suck or whether they blow. Regardless, there is almost universal dislike, disdain and disparagement of threaded comments.
BTW, I'm firmly in the "threaded comments suck" faction.
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 20, 2010 7:32 PM
'Tis Himself:
Actually, I'm of the opinion that they're not bad, if done right. Problem is, they're almost never done right.
For an example of threaded comments that *are* done right, look at the comment system at UserFriendly.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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July 20, 2010 7:42 PM
Shane! Come back!
Posted by: Gar Lipow
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July 20, 2010 7:43 PM
Just a note: 250 comments, 0 from
SEED management. Not a good sign.
Posted by: Noddin
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July 20, 2010 7:44 PM
Hello my friends.
I looked up this blog today and I see Mister Myers is having a big problem. I need to put this in perspective.
The World does not understand the problem. This is an issue inside a small club. The impression at the glance is that you are a bickering family. But what is the goal of this blog? Please think of the ultimate goal. I see it. It can be powerful.
OK. Make sure you know what you really care about. Science communication. Having a club. Choose it with your mind.
I think SEED is made up of one or two people. Is this strike in proportion? The Western World is an advertisement. Let us choose our fish.
Maybe you should leave if it is bad. But, do not make this a Hollywood film. I think there is a hole between principles and the real world.
What will people say about this in two years? I hope you find your time with me similar to opening doors.
Posted by: KillerChihuahua
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July 20, 2010 7:46 PM
I have my peril sensitive sunglasses on, and I'm not panicking. But then, I also know where my towel is.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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July 20, 2010 7:49 PM
Mabus thinks that it's divine retribution. Too bad I deleted him.
Posted by: JBabs073
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July 20, 2010 7:51 PM
I've read every single post PZ has made for about a year or so now. It's going to be so weird not having Pharyngula to read... I saw somebody mention this already, and hopefully PZ takes it seriously, but he should definitely at least do some posts on his Twitter.
I think I'll also just keep opening up this blog to increase PZ's paycheck.
Posted by: Zeno
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July 20, 2010 7:53 PM
I've been deleting a lot of Mabus lately, who has obviously mastered the art of cut and paste (even if thinking is difficult for him). Fortunately, I have mastered the art of deletion. Since ignorance is bliss, Mabus will be happy if Scienceblogs Pharyngula dies -- at least till he realizes it will continue elsewhere. (Trolls are slow like that.)
Posted by: Odonata
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July 20, 2010 7:53 PM
Honk! Honk! Here are some doughnuts from around the world - German Berliner, Dutch Oliebollen, Israeli Sufganiyot, Polish Paczki, Spanish Fried Rosquillas, Canadian Timbits, and Australian Custard-filled
and Hot JamDoughnuts. Just scroll down and help yourself!Posted by: Donald Oats
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July 20, 2010 8:00 PM
I love this blog and I enjoyed seeing PZ live in Australia (Melbourne 2010, Atheism conf), and am sad to see PZ go on strike.
I agree though. As a regular reader of many blogs on this site, I felt insulted when "Bouncy Broads" ads started appearing on the blogs I was reading. I couldn't help but wonder, given the fact that I'm getting these ads on a SCIENCEBLOGS site, on every blog I read, whether some bot somewhere has sucked up a weird association for a profile database and now it will follow me around for the rest of my life! What did I google, or what website did I visit in a past life, that has led to this? Or was it from visting one of the science blogs here where the word "vagina" or "penis" was used - did that form the link that suddenly targets me with tawdry ads of a questionable nature?
Perhaps it has nothing to do with a profiles database bot-sneaked from people's web visits. In which case I *still* don't want to see Big-N-Bouncy ads on a gawd-damn science blogs site. A science blog is the last place I'd expect this sort of advertising presence.
Posted by: ckitching
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July 20, 2010 8:03 PM
Regardless of what happens, they really need a web designer. This page layout just plain feels old. Everything from the badly antialiased image-text at the top of the page to the positively bland layout to the incomprehensibly untargetted advertising (even targetting broad categories depending on the blogger would be better than what SB does today) that holds up page loads.
Obviously the back-end systems need work too. There is the primitive commenting system with its open-ID mess and utter lack of an edit feature. Threaded or unthreaded conversations, there should be a better way to reply, and having a built-in way of identifying which comment each post is replying to would be very nice (comment numbers change when spam is deleted). Let's not forget paging, which ought to be a fairly simple feature to add.
And how about tying these blogs together a little better? The last-24-hours and editor's picks are nice, but why not take it a few steps further, and put your editors to work with your bloggers to create better articles for a 'meta-blog' of sorts that has some of the best articles collected into one place.
Posted by: reera-the-red
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July 20, 2010 8:12 PM
PZ, this may have already been mentioned, but make sure you have verified backups of everything on Pharyngula. The stuff that's been going on lately sounds like there's probably a financial crisis in the air at SMG, and that sort of thing has resulted in entire sites simply going belly-up and vanishing overnight.
Posted by: RijkswaanVijanD
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July 20, 2010 8:14 PM
Joy
A good old strike..
I demand less javascripting!!
Posted by: ronsullivan
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July 20, 2010 8:19 PM
Peez, dear man, I loved you before SciBlogs and I'll love you wherever you land.
Hm, maybe I should re-word that last bit.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmVT1LBhwmO9ej9LNg7a5e9d-AVJ8ezfmE
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July 20, 2010 8:33 PM
I'll pray for you, PZ!
I.e.: I'll not actually do anything, but I'll wait and see what happens. :D
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 20, 2010 8:38 PM
googlemess @ #270:
You forgot the "... and take credit for anything good that happens" at the end of that.
Posted by: sqlrob
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July 20, 2010 8:40 PM
@Dog:
Your concern has been noted.
Posted by: calilasseia
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July 20, 2010 8:48 PM
I'm experiencing a déja vu moment here.
Management not bothering to listen to the membership or the volunteers who help keep things running?
Promises of bright new shinyness that doesn't materialise?
Mass exodus of people who are fed up with the nonsense?
It's RDF all over again. :)
Posted by: sLUCIDITy
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July 20, 2010 8:52 PM
I've been coming regularly for years and years but lurking for various reasons.
This is devestating. I feel like I know you all intimately despite you having no idea who I am. I've laughed and cried and raged and convulsed and been deeply enriched from posts penned by regulars and trolls alike.
For me, this site has silently been a source of inspiration, education, hilarity and support in my breaking the chains to a fundamentalist past.
So in the face of potential breakup, I thank all here and wish you all the best, and hope the diaspora one day returns to their homeland.
Posted by: AnthonyK
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July 20, 2010 8:54 PM
Actually, I regret my previous comments.
I support the strike: I love this blog, and don't want it to disappear even for a microsecond.
If all these decent bloggers are leaving/striking they must have good reason for it.
Even if I don't understand them all.
Posted by: satterfieldtm
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July 20, 2010 9:01 PM
Long time lurker (4 years), first time commenter. I have been getting my dose of daily sanity here for quite some time. I need that living in the south (and in the US in general). Two Baptist universities under my belt. Yeah, it hurt--although it did sharpen by bullshit detector.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to PZ (who I must say I met at TAM 6). Good luck with the Seed BS. "It all happens for a reason." (What? Oh, sorry ... detector going off again.)
Also, I have no clue how to turn off googlemess.
Posted by: Pacal
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July 20, 2010 9:02 PM
Hope they listen!
Posted by: satterfieldtm
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July 20, 2010 9:02 PM
Oh. And it's not googlemess. Oops.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 9:04 PM
*stops by, gives one day old grog and popcorn to those walking the picket lines from the Pharyngula Tavern and Spanking Parlor*
Posted by: elzoog
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July 20, 2010 9:13 PM
PZ
"The economy has put a serious strain on the publishing industry, everyone is short-staffed, and there's a constant struggle for advertising dollars to keep the lights on."
"Sorry, my check will be smaller this month, on top of the salary reductions my university has announced."
I hope the government increases your taxes.
http://my.auburnjournal.com/detail/148065.html
Posted by: John Morales
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July 20, 2010 9:15 PM
At the risk of belabouring the obvious, before Science Blogs existed, Pharyngula was.
The former ain't looking too perky, right now, but I have no fear for the latter.
Posted by: JacobCH
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July 20, 2010 9:20 PM
Awesome, elzoogs back. A couple laughs is exactly what this post needed.
Posted by: Nebula99
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July 20, 2010 9:24 PM
Really hoping this is fixed soon. I'm going to miss Pharyngula--it's an oasis of reason in a crazy world.
But I'm not going to miss scienceblogs. I don't read a URL, I read PZ Myers. Keep posting, Professor. Like so many others have said, I'll follow this blog wherever it goes. Even to Twitter.
Much as it sucks, I'll have to stop refreshing this site every twenty minutes. I'll check for updates elsewhere, though. Solidarity.
Posted by: DireLobo
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July 20, 2010 9:30 PM
I would say SMG needs to take to heart specifically the comments made on Bora blog this morning (http://scienceblogs.com/clock/2010/07/scienceblogs_and_me_and_the_ch.php) - specifcally, stop treating Scienceblogs as a cash cow and Seedmagazine as the main event. It's the other way round! Move Seedmagazine onto Scienceblogs and man-up the tech department. That's the smart play.
Posted by: Patricia, OM
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July 20, 2010 9:30 PM
I'm loading the trebuchet and alerting the Pullet PatrolTMto pour on the eggs. If Seed doesn't straighten up the siege can begin.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 9:43 PM
And I hope you get a clue on the difference between deficit and debt. Ignorant loser.Posted by: Patricia, OM
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July 20, 2010 9:46 PM
Sorry folks, the spanking couch is closed until further notice.
Posted by: eleusis
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July 20, 2010 9:57 PM
Just host your own blog. Keep more of the advertising profits (that is, all of them). You don't need Seed or SB. With a self hosted site, you could:
1) Mange your comments however you want, like adding threaded comments and the option to receive emails on follow up comments, two things that are severely lacking on this site.
2) Finally add a forum where your vast community could chat and frolic and conspire in their Vast Atheist Conspiracy.
3) Add whatever else you want, like other bloggers. Manage an independent version of Scienceblogs that answers to YOU.
Now that you're not busy blogging, you have some extra time to look into self hosting and learn a little about web site manage. It'll be fun!
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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July 20, 2010 9:58 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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July 20, 2010 10:04 PM
That's unlikely, considering PZ has stated his incoming is decreasing. That's how taxes work.
Better (and more likely) would be, "I hope your insurance company increases its premium." That's a much more likely curse.
Posted by: jafafahots
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July 20, 2010 10:04 PM
Guest blogging is a great idea!
A kind of Pharyngula Road Tour, Summer 2010!
Black silkscreened t-shirts for sale!
Seriously, it would be a really cool way to give some exposure to other bloggers blogs, someone could track where you are next, or you could of course announce at the end of a post where the next one will appear.
Could actually be helpful to a lot of people. (Ok, also a nightmare for others, crashed servers, sudden influx of spam and trolls) but still...
Posted by: bossman
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July 20, 2010 10:05 PM
All I can say is keep us posted from an oilfield worker in Cali. Keep up the good work PZ.
Posted by: eleusis
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July 20, 2010 10:14 PM
PZ, isn't your daughter a comp sci major? If you go your own web site, you could hire her to manage it part time, or as needed. And if she was slacking off on the job, you could always ground her. ;-)
Posted by: eleusis
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July 20, 2010 10:19 PM
If you want concrete information, you don't need an "independent server," you just need a hosting package that's big enough for your traffic. You would know how much bandwidth traffic you get better than us. Then just sign up with Google AdSense for ads. They'll walk you through the process.
Didn't you used to have your own site, pharyngula.org? I followed you back then and was honestly kind of surprised when you switched to Scienceblogs. I thought you were giving up your independence at the time. How were you hosted at the time? How come all of a sudden you know nothing about self hosting?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 10:19 PM
That's unlikely, considering PZ has stated his incoming is decreasing. That's how taxes work.
I tried to explain that to him previously using tables and words, but he seemed to have real problems not only understanding the difference between debt and deficit, but also income and taxes.
In short:
he's a moron.
Posted by: RodM
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July 20, 2010 10:24 PM
I have not read every comment (there are so many) so I apologize if this has been suggested. I think everybody should just follow PZ on Twitter until his strike is over, this way we won;t be generating traffic until the strike is over.
Posted by: dmorrison
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July 20, 2010 10:34 PM
Blarg. :(
Posted by: elzoog
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July 20, 2010 10:35 PM
#290
"That's unlikely, considering PZ has stated his incoming is decreasing. That's how taxes work."
You forget that a few dollars means a lot more to a poor person than it does to a rich person. $20 means nothing to Bill Gates, but to a person making minimum wage, $20 could be the difference between having a good lunch, or skipping lunch entirely.
So, an "increase in the percentage of wages you pay in taxes" (which is the most LIKELY meaning of increasing taxes), would still hurt PZ.
But he shouldn't complain. After all, he is for raising taxes. I'm just seeing if that includes HIS taxes.
Posted by: elzoog
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July 20, 2010 10:40 PM
#295
"I tried to explain that to him previously using tables and words"
You mean like for example, the tables I gave you from the ACTUAL IRS that shows that the top 5% of wage earners pay 57.1% of the US tax revenue?
(Which NONE of your tables addressed)
Posted by: albatros183
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July 20, 2010 10:50 PM
Self hosting would not be my first option unless your tech skills are better than I think, though talking to the CS people (locally might be worth while) at least a temporary host they often have many machines fast connections and lots of time on their hands (at least they used to), seem to me you have three(3) options, 1) self host(ie in your house) requires computer, a fastish synchronous connection (SDSL, or at least something with 1-2 mbps up plus at least same down)box can be almost anything modernish, issues: your not an admin so learning curve, also ad's this is a field in itself, but adsense etc. learning curve is there but your smart it should not be to bad.
Collocation up not in your closet down side same as above but the box is not in your house, up side bigger pipe
Shared hosting, down side: not your server, up side not your server, some companies do offer ad and dev down side they might want money.
I just emailed a friend of mine that runs a hosting/dev company(they do CRM, company portals etc.) so it may not be a good fit and he may not even email you anyway but there are a number of good solutions to this especially if you can get a bunch of people together in which case if you have to co-lo or pay some money shared cost for the first while until traffic and new users makeup for the cost means it is not to much of a burden.
I can see a problem with the committee idea, it seems that the central problem is there is not community forum (that place with the big pillars) so communication between members is problematic and communication with the host is a problems.
Solution! FACEBOOK facepalm(web 2.0 hurt brain) sorry a blog page restricted to members with 1 or more admins or whatever monitoring and responding, I know I am now heading into the dark ages of the internets, but a list server should be easy, I R C and maybe even a gasp Newsgroup(I know assuming people have usenet access is a bit assumption these day's) there are technical solutions that are EASY even with may users.
I believe you have a solution (at least partial) on this here blog, forums, and responses to posts.
anyway I missed the pepsico thing but "...nutrition or food blogging this month, because we've got an advertising contract from PepsiCo..." I don't understand what does pepsico have to do with food or nutrition??
Understand though that running every advertising contract past every or even a committee of members would be impractical and (have you been in a committee meeting ?)
Hate for you to go broke just when you starting to be linked of high traffic sites, plus all that work of relinking things for Drew
:)
last thing many of your users may be somewhat internet literate they are probably blocking ads, the tech is becoming better and more common, there are way's to unblock for specific sites.
Much as I don't like ad's or corporations or much in general that is how sites like this continue since people have to eat.
I don't know anything about the corp that runs this but I have known small internet providers I would not want to see starve to death(I can't even starve the mice in my apartment) so they might not be evil
Just a few thoughts some of which are random
Posted by: Made of Stars
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July 20, 2010 10:54 PM
I too can see the sad parallels with the handling of RD.net before it folded, specifically the mis- or missing communication, and lack of support for significant technical issues. All that's missing is the broadcast message from SMG about their being 'very excited' by their unilateral changes, and not to take your business elsewhere.
Strike out on your own PZ, no doubt there are plenty of sites that would fall over themselves to host you.
I'd recommend talking with Life, the administrator of rationalskepticism.org. He's extremely receptive, technically competent, and a great communicator.
Best wishes.
Posted by: jmcnary
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July 20, 2010 10:59 PM
Aw, for the FSM's sake, has it really come to this? My favorite blog on strike.
I wish I'd have subscribed to Seed while it, you know, existed.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 11:00 PM
Elzoog, still showing your stoopidity. Show some real smarts and cease posting with people who know more than you. You just come out looking as moronic as your posts are stoopid. Classic Dunning-Kruger syndrome....
Posted by: Crudely Wrott , Drinking Solo Since Death's Back On The Wagon
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July 20, 2010 11:02 PM
Well, this is certainly turning into an adventure!
While I felt a hollow in the pit of my stomach when I first saw the Strike! notice and had already gotten a bad case of the lacka-happy-SciBlogs Blues, I feel different after reading (most of) the forgoing comments. There is something here that is to be very happy for.
Inertia. Social inertia, to be more accurate. I think the shear weight and volume of PZ's blog, his loyal (loyal? rabidly fanatic!) minions and the grand company of SciBlings is sufficient to survive any likely outcome. Which outcome will probably begin to take shape within a very short time.
Therefore I counsel courage, steadfastness, solidarity and great expectations. And more beer and bacon all around. And popcorn. This promises to be an interesting show . . .
. . . I expect to see an elevated level of cooperation and volunteerism very soon. There are some good ideas mentioned above for dealing with this uncertainty and no shortage of talented and qualified people to manage the details.
Therefore, be ye of good faith and fear not. There is some subtle magic in all this. ;^>
As you were.
Posted by: Kagato
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July 20, 2010 11:02 PM
Don't really want to wade into this particular argument, but...
Which sounds at least fair, given from PZ's "dismal science" article the other day, the top 10% own 71.5% of US wealth, and the top 1% owns 33.8% of it.
Now, while we all enjoy PZ's relaxed attitude to off-topic discussions -- given the topic of this particular post could affect our ability to do so in future, perhaps it would be better if we refrain just this once?
Posted by: Diane G.
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July 20, 2010 11:05 PM
FWIW: I like SB for its familiarity and convenience and (what used to be, anyway) it's enticing aggregation of potentially interesting writers in one place; and the eye-grabbing sidebars that often lead me to places I'd not ordinarily check in on--the "readers' picks," "editor's picks," "most active," & "research blogging."
If a bunch of you all (Sciblings) scatter, chances are very good I'm not gonna read some of you nearly as often, if at all. (Though PZ,of course, I'd try to follow.)
Since this is already an acknowledged free speech platform, I don't see the point of flouncing off in dudgeon. Especially those who struggle for readership even here. For the problems PZ outlines, I can support his approach, though selfishly I'm mad at it, too. Poor me, no Pharyngula to read--but only for a while, one hopes.
For those commenters who haven't yet learned to ignore advertising--jeez, how do you survive in real life?
Sourly,
--Diane
Posted by: csue-n-moo
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July 20, 2010 11:05 PM
The Trophy Husband and I will follow your blog wherever it goes. :>
- CSue
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 11:07 PM
You mean like for example, the tables I gave you from the ACTUAL IRS that shows that the top 5% of wage earners pay 57.1% of the US tax revenue?
last time, moron:
what I showed you is WHY, using income data that indicated that top bracket's NET income has been steadily INCREASING, and is now at the highest levels in history.
IOW, taxes mean even less to the rich than they EVER DID. so that 57% figure? it's FUCKING MEANINGLESS.
that you would bring your moronic self in here is bloody insulting to people with intelligence.
get lost.
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 20, 2010 11:08 PM
I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but here goes:
The reason the top 5% of earners pay almost 60% of the income tax is because they earn almost 40% of the income.
The top 1% of earners earn approximately 20% of the income (after deductions), own 35% of the wealth (more than the bottom 95% combined), and pay about 40% of the income tax.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 11:11 PM
I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but here goes:
frustrating, ain't it?
it's not like this exact same thing wasn't pointed out to it at least 20 times in the original thread it was trolling in.
nooooo, it has to come here and puke on the floor too.
Posted by: raven
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July 20, 2010 11:12 PM
Don't know much about internet websites economics but it strikes me that in the right entrepreneurial hands, Scienceblogs could be a nice bit of change generator.
1. Page views run ca. 1/2 million a day.
2. Great brand recognition.
3. Great stable of bloggers, up until a week ago anyway.
They need to fix their ad placement. The game about playing dress up with cartoon pets looked interesting but more appropriate for a 12 year old. And I'm not going to join Scientology.
If Seed doesn't want to deal with Scienceblogs, they should give it away or sell it to someone who will take better care of it. Better than just letting it sink back into nowhere.
And forget Seed magazine. I got one issue but it was free. The market for pop science is crowded with science newsletter, discover, science, nature, scientific american and so on. And print is a dinosaur model.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 20, 2010 11:15 PM
"$20 means nothing to Bill Gates, but to a person making minimum wage, $20 could be the difference between having a good lunch, or skipping lunch entirely."
You've clearly never been poor if you think $20 is the difference between a lunch and no lunch. That's a weeks worth of food for me right now.
That said, a VAT is a horrible regressive tax that hits the poorest worse. If Obama even tries to institute a VAT here he is an idiot and I guarantee he'll lose the next election.
I doubt he will; reading the articles about it doesn't make it sound like it's a real consideration he has.
Posted by: elzoog
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July 20, 2010 11:16 PM
#303
Well, how about this. Let's see if Obama really does raise taxes and if he does so, he only raises taxes on the rich.
I say that IF he raises taxes, that he's going to raise taxes on EVERYBODY (it's even possible that he could start taxing me even though I don't live in the US).
Of course he could only raise INCOME TAX on the rich, but increase sales taxes, social security taxes, IRA taxes, etc. on everybody else.
So, I am calling your bluff Nerd of Redhead. You say that you won't get hurt jumping off the cliff and I say you will get hurt. So how about you jump off the cliff and let's see who is right.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 20, 2010 11:23 PM
I would say you first loser, but you fell off the cliff when you couldn't explain the difference between deficit and debt like a typical rethuglican loser. Here's an example of your stoopidity and losership: you think an increase in taxes scares us. Especially a tax increase on the rich who can pay for it. I applaud such actions.Posted by: JacobCH
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July 20, 2010 11:26 PM
I can't believe he's still so confused over deficit and debt. He doesn't comprehend a single word y'all are saying, does he?
Posted by: albatros183
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July 20, 2010 11:33 PM
@Diane G
nice word I can only assume you have been waiting to use it :)
I have to agree that a stand alone blog is not as good as a collection of them, but there are way's to make that happen, there seem to be enough people leaving that forming another independent site would be more than feasible but that get's in to the question of governance, it's all easy when there are only 20 people but what if there are 20000.
While I agree that SB could do a better job of updating, huuummmm a not for profit or a collective blog could solve these problems if the objective is not large profits large dubious ads could be rejected if you had 20000 or even 200 like minded individuals splitting the costs and splitting the (theoretical) profits it might even make money and if you had 20000 well that's like forming an what do they call it company, no , syndicate, no aristocracy, no wait I have it an association(sorry I know that was a let down) an association, an association of like minded individuals, dedicated towards a common goal, what, what is it that they call that yess yesssss I know a corporation!!!, no sorry sorry got here from fark so I am still to drunk I... Think..They..CALL.. IT...A SOCIETY
They had clubs and Scotch and pipes and.. err no maybe they had Hash and knives, or was that poetry and propaganda I'm not sure now
Sorry I do go off into the random
Servers are easy, bandwidth is easy, even the blogs are easy (hell you can just steal slashcode, if worst come to worst but the community though action, forgiveness, retribution, compassion, hatred, love.
the data is easy the server is easy the URL is easy the humans are hard
Posted by: edinblack
|
July 20, 2010 11:35 PM
This is apparently the contact info for the people who own Seed Media. People might try contacting them.
"Innovium's Investment, Seed Media Group ("SMG") Has Announced the Following: ScienceBlogs Welcomes the World's Top Scientific Institutions to Its Platform"
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Innoviums-Investment-Seed-Media-Group-SMG-Has-Announced-Following-ScienceBlogs-Welcomes-TSX-VENTURE-IN-1281139.htm
For more information, please contact
Innovium Media Properties Corp.
Neil Raymond
Chairman and CEO
(514) 281-0481
ceo@innovium.ca
or
Innovium Media Properties Corp.
Jamie Macintosh
President and COO
(416) 862-7444
coo@innovium.ca
or
Innovium Media Properties Corp.
Julio DiGirolamo
CFO and Corporate Secretary
(416) 862-7444
cfo@innovium.ca
www.innovium.ca
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 11:36 PM
He doesn't comprehend a single word y'all are saying, does he?
doesn't, or does, and is lying about it because...
he's a troll.
either way, he's become so tedious as to be worth booting, except, since PZ is on strike...
all we can do is spit on the fuckhead.
*ptooie*
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 20, 2010 11:37 PM
Debt is, put simply, the integral of deficit by time, right?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 11:38 PM
it's all easy when there are only 20 people but what if there are 20000.
as i said in the other thread:
you can create a non-profit foundation to both fund and manage a hub of this type.
It's been done before.
I even gave examples.
Posted by: JacobCH
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July 20, 2010 11:50 PM
Type example of elzoog's confusion of debt and deficit here:
Obviously, that's not the deficit, it's the debt. Deficit is the budget shortfall for the year, not the whole of the nation's debt. He seems to be under the impression that to pay off what he thinks is the deficit that we'd need yearly revenue to surpass the nation's debt. Every tax argument I've seen from him follows from this faulty understanding.
Posted by: gregvalcourt
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July 20, 2010 11:50 PM
I can back this site up (and the comments) just in case. Unless of course someone can give me ethical reasons not to (copyright infringement, in which case I argue fair use). So If I come back here tomorrow evening and this blog is still up, and there's no compelling arguments not to backup this site (PZ saying "no" would be good enough for me), then I will wget this whole thing (goodness, I love Linux, fuck windoze).
In any case, PZ tell us where you plan to go next.
I can't give you any good advice on hosting, since where I work we host everything ourselves, and it's a full time job. You've got more important things to do. But I can tell you that I can't complain about Wordpress (for you I recommend the software, not sure if they're willing to handle your hosting). It's Open Source and very configurable. I suggest giving them a donation if you use them, after all the software is provided for free, why not give something back.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 20, 2010 11:53 PM
Backing it up isn't copyright infringement. Distribution is necessary to infringe on copyright, generally speaking.
Posted by: gregvalcourt
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July 20, 2010 11:56 PM
#323
Exactly. My intentions are to archive it. Send it to PZ and delete it if he requests.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 20, 2010 11:58 PM
Exactly. My intentions are to archive it. Send it to PZ and delete it if he requests.
sounds like a fine idea. More the merrier; can't have too many backups IMO.
Posted by: elzoog
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July 21, 2010 12:03 AM
#321
"Obviously, that's not the deficit, it's the debt. Deficit is the budget shortfall for the year, not the whole of the nation's debt. He seems to be under the impression that to pay off what he thinks is the deficit that we'd need yearly revenue to surpass the nation's debt. Every tax argument I've seen from him follows from this faulty understanding."
Well, what can I say? How about we raise YOUR taxes?
Again, if you think that raising taxes is the answer to the US government's woes then I say go for it. In fact, I'm sure the IRS wouldn't mind it if you sent them extra money along with your tax return. Are you sending extra money JacobCH? No?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 21, 2010 12:06 AM
Well, what can I say? How about we raise YOUR taxes?
well, what can I say?
except repeat the very first thing I said to you:
fuck.
off.
I can only add:
...and die.
Posted by: JacobCH
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July 21, 2010 12:09 AM
You could, just possibly, own up to your mistake and amend your conclusions but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Posted by: edinblack
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July 21, 2010 12:11 AM
I just sent an email to Innovium, the owners of Seed Media (see contact information above); here's my e-mail to them:
Dear Neil Raymond (Chairman and CEO); Jamie Macintosh (President and COO); and Julio DiGirolamo (CFO and Corporate Secretary) of Innovium Media Properties Corp.:
Please change the policies and management philosophy of SMG immediately. SMG is losing respected writers one after the other due to its stubborn refusal to be open and transparent with its writers---the very ones providing the site's content. Apparently Carl Zimmer, Ed Yong, PalMD, Bora, Superbug, Zuska, and Speakeasy Science have all left due to SMG's recalcitrance. Now PZ Myers, a science blogger with a huge following, has declared a strike. It should be easy to solve this problem: Myers' blog announcing his strike details exactly what many SMG bloggers and users find counterproductive and also provides a comprehensive list of concrete changes that would improve relations. Please either make unmistakable moves in the direction he has suggested or explain why exactly you believe it is productive to stonewall your own bloggers and users. I of course see the irony that you may well respond by stonewalling further. If SMG's behavior does not change very soon, the predictable result will be that further respected bloggers will leave--along with their readers.
Posted by: speedweasel
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July 21, 2010 12:11 AM
Congratulations, you have discovered WGET, now take your Operating System bigotry and scram.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 12:14 AM
Bored Now
@Ichthyic
which other thread? I have not been around for a few day's
not sure what you are referring to.
Posted by: ian.k.alexander
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July 21, 2010 12:18 AM
Seed don't care, PZ. They're hemorrhaging bloggers, that is, their advertising bread and butter, and still no word from them. If they actually gave a shit they'd have shown some signs of life by now.
If I were you, I'd line up a new host for Pharyngula.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 12:20 AM
"Well, what can I say? How about we raise YOUR taxes?"
That would be especially shitty given how little I make. But if we raised the taxes on everyone who makes more than 250k a year I'd be good with that. And put the rate on those making over 10m a year at around 90%. No problem.
No one likes to have less money, but some people can easily get by without it.
Posted by: ian.k.alexander
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July 21, 2010 12:20 AM
s/Seed/Scienceblogs/
Wherever you end up it should have the ability to edit comments.
Posted by: elzoog
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July 21, 2010 12:23 AM
#328
"You could, just possibly, own up to your mistake and amend your conclusions but I'm not going to hold my breath."
I already did that. So if you want YOUR taxes to increase why don't you just send more money to the IRS every year. I'm sure the IRS will accept it.
That's the problem with people who want to raise taxes. They always assume the government will raise taxes on anybody but them.
In the meantime, "Glenn Hubbard, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, has noted that "from an income tax perspective, the United States has become one of the least attractive industrial countries in which to locate the headquarters of a multinational corporation."
Good luck.
Posted by: gregvalcourt
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July 21, 2010 12:24 AM
#330
I have not just discovered wget, I've been using it for years. It's not bigotry when we are talking about non-conscious non-sentient systems. Some systems are clearly better than others: try comparing a Swiss army knife to a butter knife. Is preferring the Swiss army knife bigotry? I know I'm a bit unkind. Some people don't want to hurt the butter knife's feelings.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 12:26 AM
Yeah, former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under GW Bush. Current Visiting Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
Completely great source.
And not even a citation for where you stole the quote from.
Posted by: marion.delgado
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July 21, 2010 12:27 AM
A very good strike post, PZ. Nearly as good as Bora's farewell post, and that's not to belittle your effort whatsoever.
Honestly, I don't read Pharyngula very much at all, so this should have zero effect on me :) I read what you ferry over to PandasThumb dot ORG, and I'd hope you'll still write stuff somewhere even when on strike that will end up there.
I am proud of the SciBloggers who left without wanting any more to.
SciBlogs has not been around long enough to die, it's that simple. I'll follow you on Twitter while you're officially hiatized :)
mariondelgado
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 12:27 AM
Facepalm
twitch twitch
debt vs Deficit ???!!!!????
are you all retarded
for the US government they are one an the same they are operating at a deficient all year every year when that year turns over the Deficit becomes debt
this is not even rocket science, the cost of that debt is another matter and involves a bunch of calculations that add to the next years current account. Deficit is not the total debt Deficit is the current years debt
bored now
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 21, 2010 12:28 AM
which other thread?
there was some discussion about alternatives to Seed here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/07/rage_risingrisingrising.php
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 21, 2010 12:31 AM
Glenn Hubbard, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, has noted that "from an income tax perspective, the United States has become one of the least attractive industrial countries in which to locate the headquarters of a multinational corporation."
so now you want to confuse personal and corporate taxes.
go you.
again...
FOAD.
you're a waste of air.
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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July 21, 2010 12:32 AM
Damn it. I'm trying not to cross the picket line. But I'm having withdrawal. Must have posts from PZ and conversation with Pharyngulites. I miss y'all already, and it's not even a day. I'm a very Sad Panda.:(
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 12:33 AM
"for the US government they are one an the same they are operating at a deficient all year every year when that year turns over the Deficit becomes debt"
They are completely different, especially if you are comparing numbers. The debt is much, much larger than the deficit. So for reasons of comparison it is vitally important not to confuse the two.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 21, 2010 12:33 AM
maybe this will give you time to work on that Pharyngula recipe list, Josh.
;)
Posted by: JacobCH
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July 21, 2010 12:34 AM
I really shouldn't respond to this but I'm a sucker for an argument.
I really don't understand what point you're trying to make, elzoog. Because you can't understand the difference between debt and deficit then I--who works almost exclusively volunteer and makes less than ten thousand a year--need to pay more taxes?
Let me break it down for you:
You think we need to increase revenue by 11 trillion dollars to cover this "deficit" of yours so if we increase taxes we'd need to increase them on everyone in order to do that.
We're telling you that that's not necessary; the deficit for this year is actually 1.2 trillion and we could tax only those who make ridiculous amounts of money and help pay off the debt of 13.2 trillion over a period of years.
Obviously this is a very simplified gloss, but please point out where my argument means I'm paying more taxes. Honestly, I don't think a larger share of my ten grand is going to help them out.
Posted by: rippingrich
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July 21, 2010 12:36 AM
If you are looking for somewhere to vent, on behalf of all of us at thinkatheist.com
We would like to invite you to come and contribute here.
Even if it is for just a little while we would be proud to have you.
Signed with loving care,
Renshia
Damn google account seems it can never get it right.
Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death
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July 21, 2010 12:36 AM
@gregvalcourt
What are you? 12? Grow the fuck up.
They're a tool. You pick the necessary tool required to do the job.
Also, incase you hadn't removed your blinders, wget is available on most desktop platforms.
Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death
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July 21, 2010 12:40 AM
@Josh
*thumbs up*
Didyagetit? didya? huh? huh? Seewhatididthere? :)
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 12:49 AM
Dude, chill. In case you hadn't noticed you're the one freaking out and swearing over the fact that someone prefers an operating system or set of commands over another one. I know it's the internet and all but you need to get over yourself.
Or is this just part of the grieving process from not having pharyngula for some unspecified period of time?
Posted by: sirjeffere
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July 21, 2010 12:50 AM
Aw, I keep checking back here just in case you decide to post some updates on how the strikes going. I guess it's going well, so far!
I have to wonder, though. Would you stop the strike if something crazy happened? If, for example, the pope declared gay marriage perfectly alright for Catholics, married Rick Astley and told everybody that birth control is just fine if you don't want kids yet, could we expect at least a -little- bit of a comment on it here?
Posted by: SC OM
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July 21, 2010 12:50 AM
It's been...a day, but...?:
http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/now-this-is-an-interesting-twist-in-the-scienceblogs-com-saga/
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 12:55 AM
@Ichthyic
I was not thinking on the scale of the McArthur foundation, and though I approve of what they have done for PBS, I am more interested in smaller groups real communities real political structures. I think I have said before( in other threads, please don't make me find them) that there is a limit in real democracy and that is around 20000 but it still is a hard problem if you want everyone to have real input and I don't think I agree with you that foundation funding is a good way to go
anything that is not supported directly by the people is problematic, while I appreciate the charity of the rich taking care of the poor, since I cannot condone anyone going hungry.
It is ridiculous and wrong and these are the people that made them poor in the first place.
FacePalm
Arrrgh.
I don't disagree with you but I do and I am starting to get to sleepy
I don't agree that forming an authoritarian organization is better than sorting out what to do with 20000 people there are solutions they are just irritating(ie they have to do wit people)
Posted by: gregvalcourt
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July 21, 2010 12:57 AM
@gdh
I'm 12 and a 1/2, dude. Don't call me 12.
Posted by: Tim Harris
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July 21, 2010 12:59 AM
I am very sorry things have come to this. Pharyngula is a wonderful blog (though I don't always agree!), and, you, PZ, are the kind of teacher that everyone above a certain age would have wanted - an those young people who you do teach are damned lucky. All good wishes,
Tim
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 1:04 AM
@Diane G
again Awesome word
a feeling of offense or resentment; anger: We left in high dudgeon
:)
sorry make me happy
so many words so few opportunities
Posted by: SC OM
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July 21, 2010 1:18 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20100528-904293.html
Translation?
Posted by: ShockedISaid
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July 21, 2010 1:19 AM
PZ, sorry if someone else has made this suggestion:
SMG doesn't seem to give two hoots about Sb. So why don't you offer to buy it from them? At this moment, I'm guessing they'd be interested in being handed an easy way out of this mess. Without you bloggers, Sb's worth nothing. The bloggers are the only guys who can give them anything, because the bloggers are who makes it worth something. And if you took over, I'll bet the other bloggers would happily come back.
Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death
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July 21, 2010 1:24 AM
@casey.oneill.is
Who's freaking out? So I swore? So what?
Anyway, can't help SIWOTI. I just get sick of all the cheap shots people give out over an OS they don't like/use.
Like I said, computers are a tool. You pick the one for the job you require.
Posted by: Diane G.
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July 21, 2010 1:32 AM
No doubt also one of PhysioProf's faves...
;)
Posted by: Dahan
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July 21, 2010 1:33 AM
Best of luck PZ. I may only be a tiny voice here and one of a million plus people who hit on this blog (and other SEED ones) but I stand with you.
ON STRIKE!
Posted by: CalGeorge
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July 21, 2010 1:37 AM
Seed has gone to seed.
Good luck, PZ.
Posted by: SC OM
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July 21, 2010 1:44 AM
Oh,
http://drugmonkey.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/now-this-is-an-interesting-twist-in-the-scienceblogs-com-saga/#comment-3656
Here:
http://www.innovium.ca/pdf/financial_info/annuals/Annual_Report_2009.pdf
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 1:44 AM
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Forks are clearly better than spoons.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 1:48 AM
@Diane G:)
PhysioProf's, sorry in joke fail
wish I could respond better but little scary(inference)
good words are good I once used antidisestablimentarianism in sentence, sorry boast.
My one saving grace
maybe that's why I like Chomsky and Tolkien
Watching Ep IV for the 300th time
Posted by: tenebra98
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July 21, 2010 1:50 AM
Good luck PZ. I hope the problems are resolved. A lot of good science bloggers are being missed.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 1:54 AM
@casey.oneill.is
Keep up we now have sporks so there is no reason to choose
yes it's to late for all humanity
Understand that "Vader was seduced by the dark side, he betrayed and murdered your father"
and fork/spoon conversations will never get you to alderan
stupid people
you figure out where the dark side is
Posted by: djfav
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July 21, 2010 1:54 AM
I haz a sad. :(
Good luck with the strike, even though I feel the event horizon has been crossed already.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 1:57 AM
Sporks are the worst. They do two things poorly.
Posted by: raven
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July 21, 2010 2:12 AM
From the link in msg #363 SC. This explains most of what is going on.
Seed Media Group is bankrolled by Innovium, a small venture capital company whose main investment seems to be SMG.
Operating cash flow first quarter 2010 was a loss of 215,000 USD (or maybe Canadian, Innovium is Canadian).
This doesn't say much directly about the cash flow of SMG itself as the actual financial connections between the two companies might be public information somewhere but isn't known to me right now.
But we can all tell from what is happening that likely Seed Media Group has negative cash flow or a positive burn rate.
They really need to sit down and see where their revenue comes from and where it disappears to and cut the cash consumers and salvage the revenue generators. It would help if their financial statements were public but, while Innovium's are, SMG probably not.
Posted by: titmouse
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July 21, 2010 2:20 AM
#6 FREE THE TITMOUSE!
Srsly, I'm sick of the Scienceblogs spam trap. I've been stuck in it for months --maybe since Christmas last year.
It's no fun commenting when your comment doesn't appear for hours and hours. The conversation moves on and you are not part of it.
The sign-in thing here seems to allow me to sneak in, and for that I am grateful.
Bonus points to anyone who can explain how I got added to the filter list.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 2:49 AM
@casey.oneill.is
BLASHPHEEEEEMMMEERRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW +DARE YOU IMPUNE THE SPOORKSD
IT IS THE MASTER OF THE GSM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there now back to reasonable me
BLASHPHEEEEEMMMEERRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW +DARE YOU IMPUNE THE SPOORKSD
IT IS THE MASTER OF THE GSM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: rick.desper
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July 21, 2010 2:56 AM
I have been reading this blog for several years. For the most part I don't read the other SB blogs often, except Ed Brayton's.
I don't quite "get" what the issue is here. I understood the outrage at the fake Pepsi blog, but I thought the bloggers had won that fight.
But bloggers are leaving anyway?
If the reason is due to a lack of technical support, that's a valid reason, but it's hardly one that is going to be viewed as dramatic, or requiring all the hand-wringing I see going on.
What I'm seeing right now are a bunch of bloggers complaining, essentially, that SB is not consulting them about everything. On the heels of a major mistake by SB, I can see where that desire for more power comes from, but at some point, a lot of people are taking stances I don't have much sympathy for.
Bora is leaving because he thinks SB cannot recover from the damage to the reputation. Or that's what his post seemed to say. That's fine and all - it's his prerogative. I would disagree with his attitude, but at least a stance I can respect.
Other bloggers are leaving...because SB didn't discuss Bora's departure with them? Um, hello people. Welcome to the real world. You guys have had a good gig going, and you're going to implode it because it isn't behaving like a 1960s commune?
My characterization may or may not be fair, but that's what it seems like to me.
The bloggers argue that Bora's depature "was a major event". As an outsider, I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing why your typical manager would think along those lines. Let's say I'm running a newspaper. A popular columnist resigns. Does the editorial board immediately call for a meeting with all of the other columnists on staff?
Reality check? The answer is no.
I suspect management wants to work with you, but some of the complaints here read like they come from the expectation that SB will be run like a 60s-style commune.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 2:56 AM
Sorry what I meant to say was I just email the COO and asked him to make contact, small company thought they may be he is still not likely aware of the problem
Give them a chance to make good, tech companies often have problems
A) beyond there control and
B) stupid
you know like people looking at them I think they are worth giving some rope..
They will or will not hang themselves
Posted by: Diane G.
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July 21, 2010 3:00 AM
@ albatros183, # 364
Oh, sorry! Was a reference to a recent thread, in the comments of which Comrade PhysioProf was getting ribbed for finding some of the words in a vid PZ posted too obscure...(Those words were "etiolated" & "verbigeration," FYI...)
@ # 370:
...try dormouse...?
Sorely need my PZ fix... Seed powers-that-be--FIX THIS.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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July 21, 2010 3:04 AM
@rick.desper #372
What I'm seeing right now are a bunch of bloggers complaining, essentially, that SB is not consulting them about everything.
Interesting. I'm seeing a bunch of bloggers complaining that SB is not consulting them about anything. Or responding, even, many times, with a boilerplate "We're working on it." A word that I've seen from multiple current and former SB bloggers is, "Silence."
Posted by: ehlsever
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July 21, 2010 3:05 AM
INSIDE BASEBALL FTL
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 3:06 AM
Not consulting them on anything is more like it. That and not being consistent with money owed.
If all the newspaper has is columnists and a number have quit already then yes, you would, or should. You would at least talk to the other columnists before they go on strike.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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July 21, 2010 3:10 AM
Just a quick question here, and not trying to invalidate the feelings of loss by any other Pharyngula readers (I feel it too), but how does this current down time compare to previous gaps in PZ's postings when he was, for example, on a trans-pacific flight? It's been quieter the last several hours but it seems that that the, "Oh noes! I'm missing my Pharyngula fix!!!!" comments started even before the time it would have taken for PZ to fly across that tiny little Atlantic Ocean. Just sayin'.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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July 21, 2010 3:20 AM
casey.oneill.is #377, you seem to be on the ball. I mostly lurk and haven't even kept up with reading most threads. Do you just work the night shift or am I that far behind the curve that I have never seen your posts before? (I realize I am just a yahoomess myself)
Also, on a serious note, I'm sorry to hear that $20 is a week's worth of groceries for you. Do you have assistance from a local food bank or community garden, or are you able to meet your caloric requirements on $20/week alone? If it's the latter, I'm impressed. I know cutting out most meat goes a long way, but $20 seems like a fricken miracle to me.
Posted by: eleusis
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July 21, 2010 3:20 AM
I just read a comment on your other post, PZ, where you mention that your old pharyngula.org site was hosted on a lab server. No wonder you think that going independent would be difficult. You should try a commercial (virtual) hosting package. You get features like cPanel and Fantastico. They let you install stuff (Wordpress, gallery, etc) in two clicks. It's not hard. Customizing stuff might taking a little know how, but nothing you can't handle.
Hosting packages are more advanced (and easier to use) now than they were in 2005.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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July 21, 2010 3:31 AM
No wonder you think that going independent would be difficult. You should try a commercial (virtual) hosting package. You get features like cPanel and Fantastico. They let you install stuff (Wordpress, gallery, etc) in two clicks. It's not hard.
Um, "commercial (virtual) hosting package", as you call it, means being ROOT. It's a pain in the ass even for those who do it for a living. I don't have any specific recommendations for PZ wrt future hosting, although I suspect he could find someone among the Pharyngula crowd, perhaps one of the many OM recipients, whom he would trust to do it right. But this "It's just few clicks away!" stuff is horseshit.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 3:36 AM
Diane G. Author Profile Page | July 21, 2010 3:00 AM
:) should be in your rabbit hole by now.
HaHa fail I can use this one in a sentence
I am etiolated. (1. To become white or whiter; to be whitened or blanched by excluding the light of the sun, as, plants.)
except the plant part WTF plants don't get white they get dead.
Sorry can't do this one not religious, verbigeration which I admit to being a good word can only be used in context of things I have no connection with. My FAIL( I can't even pronounce that) this is not yet a real word!!!
"Sorely need my PZ fix... Seed powers-that-be--FIX THIS."
A bit sad, if @ raven is correct about the parent company I just email the COO
If @ravens numbers are correct these are not the evil venture people (I remember those people)
if this is venture it is a small investment
it is worth mentioning that I got here from fark which from a traffic point of view is nearly as good as slashdot 2x in the last month, brings the tards but brings the page views
sorry not all of that was directed at you Diane G
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 3:48 AM
Err tarded creepy buy #'s 378, 379, 381.
1) if you are virtual hosting you do not have root it's not your box and there are other people hosting on it.
2) trying to pick up the poor chic's is kind of creepy
3) you deliberately miss the point of Strike it's not about how long it is about why.
I call COP
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 3:57 AM
@377
I haven't been in the comments here that often since it started breaking a hundred in the first half hour. I also go by AoT. I'm also not a strict materialist so I tend to ruffle feathers quite often and once the comment count started to pick up I just couldn't deal with it.
As for the $20 a week, I should hit up the food pantry, but I mostly have rice and beans with bread and veggies I dumpster. And I dumpster even when I do have money. A $5 bag of rice will last a good couple weeks for one person and the fifteen more bucks can easily cover even canned beans for a week. I've also been vegetarian for years now, and mostly vegan at this point.
I could probably eat better but I'm in a transition right now, just moved so I'm a bit short on money. I'm sure it'll get better soon enough.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 4:13 AM
@casey.oneill.is
I'm probably the only one still up, but I have to ask
1) why multiple logins ?
Living on 20/week is trivial if you can dumpster, most people can't, but it is totally possible if you have any sort of bulk place nearby just that rice lentils and kidney beans are somewhat less than exciting
2)"...mostly vegan...) please tell me you have not given up cheese! that is the end of life
$15 can buy a lot of cheese
sorry cheese is close to me right now even
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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July 21, 2010 4:19 AM
@casey.oneill.is #377
Rice & beans, indeed. I'm slogging my way through Diet for a Small Planet and learning other combos that provide good balance for essential amino acids. Currently looking at the 10 in 10 Diet, and considering if reducing meat consumption to one day a week makes sense and doable (in an "I can do this" sense). Wondering also if I can talk my aunt an uncle in town to get some chickens like their neighbors. Anyway, thank you for elaborating and I hope things get better for you soon!
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 4:19 AM
I don't have a login as AoT, that was before logins. I guess I'm coathangrrr sometimes, I just comment so rarely that I never really remember which one to use. That and the google login is much quicker, so I'll be using this one consistently from now on I think.
I have mostly given up dairy stuff, just because it may be cheap, but rice and beans is definitely cheaper, and I don't trust dairy out of the dumpster. There's a nice big bread dumpster right near my house, as well as odwala and clif bar, neither of which have anything good very often. Also, a beer dumpster, which I never new existed and of course found right before I gave up drinking.
Posted by: albatros183
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July 21, 2010 4:35 AM
YOU HAVE A BEER DUMPSTER???!!!!!!
Don't say that on the internet, millions will converge upon your town :)
and you have a cheese dumpster !!!!????
where the fuck do you live Squatters heaven oh Oregon right.
Sorry should have realized
odwala and clif bar eeeck scary American chain things don't drink the coolaid
sorry not fair beer dumpster!
Ok off that the reason not to give up cheese is not about cost it is a quality of life issue, it's worth working for, fighting for starting wars over... OK maybe I have a cheese problem
but really it kills nothing (except bacteria)it makes the milk cows happy and it makes cheese
Sorry I have a problem I'll go now
:)
Posted by: Darren
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July 21, 2010 4:41 AM
The real problem here is undeserved sense of self importance most bloggers have. scienceblogs, it seems, is not immune.
:P
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/NxE_lE0Lh_9JksaAqRedu6R7Vg--#bf6f6
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July 21, 2010 4:57 AM
@albatros183 #383
Huh, what? Not even sure how your numbered points below map to the posts listed above, but here goes...
Fair enough. I conflated virtual hosting with VPS (virtual private server). My bad.
What??? I was curious about a $20 a week food budget and, honestly, unaware if the poster was male or female. Perhaps "Casey" would like to clarify. I don't really care either way.
I have no idea what the fuck that is in reference to. I have made no comments on the "strike." But for the record, I think PZ has made a decent choice given the circumstances. I use Firefox and have had AdBlock Plus installed for, well, for a long time. So I don't feel like I am violating the strike or missing the point by refreshing the page or posting here. Feel free to elaborate if you think I am wrong somehow.
What the fuck is "COP"? TLAsplain please.
Posted by: Louis
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July 21, 2010 5:29 AM
Oh and as for threaded comments and/or message boards. I think they are a great idea (depending on how they are done). Please get seed to add a forum. Please please please.
I really LIKE the message board format for comments/discussions, it lends itself to a better discussion in my opinion. Arguments can be hived off into their own little threads and resolved. For example the "tone troll/concern troll thread" I suggested ages ago. Or a "weewee thread" where men who just could not stop themselves waggling their weewees during threads discussing ladies' hoohoos could play with themselves to their hearts' content. The benefits of the message board thing is that any person coming to a popular thread can focus on the argument/subthread they want to discuss, thus minimising derails and misunderstandings and stupid fucking arguments about "thre thread is about X". Which as you may guess, annoy the piss out of me!
The message board format adds this feature. It doesn't take away from long, rambling, evolving, multipoint threads. Those can be catered for too, there's nothing to stop it. It's more pluralist than purist, it allows for more ways to post and follow discussions. Since there are a variety of folks here, not just hardcore internet warriors able to follow all threads and sub-dicsussions all the time, it offers more voices more chances. And in the end isn't that lovely?
Louis
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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July 21, 2010 5:46 AM
The lack of new PZ posts doesn't really bother me too much, unless of course it means regulars drop off. Most of the interesting stuff is in the comments and interactions, the posts are but catalysts.
Posted by: ralf.mansson
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July 21, 2010 6:02 AM
Let's hope it works. And soon. I'll miss you everyday you stay silent.
If it doesn't work, make sure to stay visible on the Interwebs somewhere. Your contribution is too valuable.
Posted by: Betelgeuse
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July 21, 2010 6:07 AM
Late morning coffee and custard danishes all around.
Full support PZ.
If SB goes to seed *:)* I will miss being able to easy-click my way to the other blogs, but hey. Nothing one cannot find within a half minute with ye olde google.
Do reappear though. It would be nice.
In the meantime do write that book, and I'll happily hop off and use the downtime to write that thesis. Or read the archives. Hmm.. which will it be now..
Posted by: Ichthyic
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July 21, 2010 6:09 AM
the posts are but catalysts.
actually, I consider PZ to be an excellent writer.
I don't think so many people would come here if he weren't; there are plenty of other social forums about.
Posted by: dorght
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July 21, 2010 6:13 AM
Now you go on Strike?
Just when there is a Poll, in Kansas in need of attention by rational thinking people? (scroll down a little it's on the right side)
"In light of recent criticism, should the Wichita City Council continue to open its meetings with prayer from various faiths?"
Yes
No
Currently 83.4% voted dogmatically.
Posted by: jnholst
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July 21, 2010 6:25 AM
I agree w/#372.
"Let's say I'm running a newspaper. A popular columnist resigns. Does the editorial board immediately call for a meeting with all of the other columnists on staff? Reality check? The answer is no."
And, I think #389 got it right when he/she wrote:
"The real problem here is undeserved sense of self importance most bloggers have. scienceblogs, it seems, is not immune."
I have been a regular reader of PZs but, rarely commented once it became evident that, if I did, I could expect to be verbally assualted by his disciples if I didn't foam at the mouth over religion's/god's hold on society (even though I am an atheist).
I do hope this gets resolved. I would miss hearing about his trophy wife and his children, as I am interested in the well-being of his son whom now is a member of our armed forces.
Posted by: pilcrow
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July 21, 2010 6:31 AM
Okay then, onto twitter. If pharyngula is not good enough reason to be a twit, then nothing surely is.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 21, 2010 6:39 AM
Way to frame the argument the wrong way. PZ's not trying to run the place, but when management does stupid things like the PepsiCo fiasco, doesn't pay their bloggers on time, and are almost totally unresponsive to the bloggers, they create a toxic atmosphere that is not the bloggers fault. Likewise, a small turnover in bloggers is expected. But when they loose too many in a short period of time, that means management problems. Something that a little communication goes a long way toward solving. The place I work has monthly meetings on how we are doing, what is going on, and how our pipeline looks. That is what PZ is asking for. Two-way communication, which isn't egotistical, but expected from a well managed work place.Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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July 21, 2010 6:40 AM
I do too, sorry if I sounded dismissive of his contribution. Just trying to say that the main reason I'm here isn't the new posts that he has to offer (I can read them in Google Reader without ever visiting the site) but because I find what happens in the comments so interesting.Posted by: Dakuan
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July 21, 2010 6:40 AM
UP THE WORKERS!
Posted by: Jackson
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July 21, 2010 6:47 AM
I agree with other posters that this doesn't make a lot of sense....
The analogy to columnists at a newspaper isn't a great one since there are "only" blogs here.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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July 21, 2010 6:50 AM
As Raven explained in #369, Seed Media Group (hereinafter SMG) is bankrolled by Innovium, an investment company whose sole investment is in SMG. Innovium's last quarterly financial statement is available online (PDF). The meat of the report is in this paragraph:
Translated into English, it's saying Innovium is not being paid interest on their loans to SMG. This, coupled with SMG being very late in payments to the bloggers, is a very bad sign.
Posted by: Carl Zimmer
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July 21, 2010 6:53 AM
Just wanted to make one small correction: Edinblack [#369] writes in an email to Innovium that I "left due to SMG's recalcitrance."
I left Scienceblogs just over two years ago, when Discover approached me with an attractive offer to write a monthly column for the magazine and blog on their site. I'm not precisely sure what Edinblack means by recalcitrance, but my move actually was due to a great opportunity elsewhere. And it certainly has nothing to do with the Pepsi fiasco going on now.
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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July 21, 2010 7:17 AM
Get back to work! ..liberal bludger..
Posted by: John Morales
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July 21, 2010 7:33 AM
Trust ABQ to fail to distinguish between vocation and avocation.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 21, 2010 7:51 AM
Since ABQ can't distinguish between local and global, and weather and climate, his confusion on vocation and avocation is understandable. But why would he want to show us his confusion? That's what baffles me.
Posted by: charley
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July 21, 2010 8:02 AM
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnqXkf5yGM94_eVIugc9B_3rX0tMYmGjr0
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July 21, 2010 8:02 AM
Attention #372 & #397:
Actually, reality check for you: nearly 20 bloggers have left, which is about a quarter of the Sb contributors, which are its only function/content. If a newspaper had a quarter of its columnists, reporters and writers walk out of the door, all from the same issues with non-payment, non-communication and crossing the boundary between content and advertising, and then several of those left amounting to about 50% of the newspaper's traffic go on strike, does the editorial board call an emergency meeting? Damn right it does.
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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July 21, 2010 8:48 AM
Right. Because without the bloggers, Scienceblogs would be an excellent place to visit.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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July 21, 2010 8:51 AM
For whomever is admin for the Endless Thread Facebook page, I've just attempted to join - my initials are JW and my avatar is a Simpsons-style cartoon character.
Let me in! I want to play with the cool kids. Well, not right now, 'cause it's bedtime in Australia...
Posted by: Dianne
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July 21, 2010 8:52 AM
I will be checking in every few days to see if the strike has ended. Good luck and I hope to read a post from you titled "Seed caves to all demands!" soon.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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July 21, 2010 8:53 AM
Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but have people posted suggestions where we gather and comment if the comments section is shut down? It's nice to have an outlet for commenting on the 'stupid shit du jour' that Pharyngula brings to our attention. Without being able to ridicule the ridiculous, it tends to go on thinking it is performing within societal parameters and we can't have that now, can we?
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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July 21, 2010 9:03 AM
I say we hit Kel's blog.
Posted by: Aribert_Deckers
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July 21, 2010 9:25 AM
It happens exactly what I tell people for a decade now: surfers are like birds in the wilderness: they come, and they go:
http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_for1.htm
Blogs, only a slightly different technique of handling texts, of course follow the same basicis.
What don't "they" ask themselves the most simple question of all:
WHY DO WE NOT DO IT ON OUR OWN?
The universities do have enough server power and internet access bandwith to EACH OF THEM power a blog farm.
PLOS showed how scientists can free themselves from the burden of publishers.
PLOS-blogs is only a click away...
Aribert Deckers
-----
http://www.ariplex.com/folia
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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July 21, 2010 9:35 AM
WHY DON'T WE DO IT IN THE ROAD?
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 21, 2010 9:47 AM
LET'S DO IT LIKE THEY DO ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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July 21, 2010 9:53 AM
Would it be unsporting to hijack some unmoderated churchy-conservative's blog? Especially one away on summer vacation or something?
"Hi, we're your new tennants!"
"GAAAAAAAAAH!"
*sound of exploding head*
Posted by: gpm
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July 21, 2010 10:00 AM
This sucks. I'm getting more irrational by the minute.
Posted by: wylann
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July 21, 2010 10:16 AM
Well, I'm sure if you want a temproary congregator, secularcafe.org, talkrational.org, or several other atheist forums would be happy to at least host a congregation/pharyngulafest/party until this is resolved or PZ sets up new digs.
I'm tempted to go through all the offers of technical help in this thread (which I lack) and see about getting a 501c (probably not 3) started and making a real effort at a potential education model for the 'future'. I'd liken it to a business model, and I'm sure that with the right technical expertise, those who work on and contribute could make a little extra from the well targeted, 'filtered' ads.
I don't want to jump the proverbial gun, but anyone have a good idea of what the starting capital would be for something like that? Is it worth, these days, to get the actual hardware, or are there hosting places out there that can handle a quick setup of something the size of Pharyngula and say, half a dozen potential other science blogs?
Posted by: ranggaw0636
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July 21, 2010 10:18 AM
good, let's teach those people what happen when people get serious
Posted by: Q.E.D
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July 21, 2010 10:39 AM
What's the methadone equivalent for Pharyngula withdrawl?
Posted by: OneHandClapping
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July 21, 2010 10:59 AM
This poll is in serious need of pharyngulation. Since we're all suffering from Pharyngula withdrawal, please feel free to take it out on Kansas :)
Posted by: Betelgeuse
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July 21, 2010 1:40 PM
You may want to read Bora's last post to understand why these are not 'only' blogs anymore. Particularly the section
'Scienceblogs.com is Media'. It couldn't have been explained better.
Posted by: edinblack
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July 21, 2010 8:23 PM
Re: Carl Zimmer #404
Dear Carl: I was not sure what reasons each person listed had for leaving, and therefore wrote "apparently" to make clear that this was merely an impression. My apologies. Main thing: I wanted to get a note off to management quickly to help move things along.
Posted by: Odonata
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July 21, 2010 8:36 PM
OneHandClapping @ 423 - Thanks for the poll link. It is now 67.1% no and 32.9% yes.
Posted by: Patricia, OM
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July 21, 2010 8:50 PM
Is Josh making a Pharyngula recipe list? Holy shite, that will be a mammoth job. But worth the effort. Carry on.
Posted by: casey.oneill.is
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July 21, 2010 9:10 PM
Chthulhu forbid that anyone have a friendly conversation on a blog. It isn't as if he was offering to give me cheese for a wild night of dumpstering.
Posted by: bzd
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July 21, 2010 10:13 PM
registered an account just to show some love here in the comments. swung thru by way of FireDogLake.com
I hope the bump in traffic from such a bold move makes them quake in their boots and realize that they're screwing the pooch big time by not allowing minds of this caliber to help steer the ship.
I'm shocked by this personally as I've been a big fan of SEED and rooting for its success since the first issue. I picked it up at random in an airport news stand and only let the subscription lapse after I moved and had to cut back on all expenses. sorry to hear their digital counterpart is doing the magazine a disservice.
p.s. way to say enough to edvertisementorialogging or whatever the hell that Pepsi shit was.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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July 21, 2010 10:41 PM
Uh, how do you respond to the poll on the page OneHandClapping linked to? If you vote that multifaith prayers shouldn't happen before council sessions won't the Jebus-freaks run with the ball and take that as a nod to just have Jebus prayers? There is no option to tic that just says 'fuck all prayer, unless you have money riding on the sports score' which is closest to my opinion.
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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July 22, 2010 7:14 AM
Stimpy is there atm, going on about entropy.Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 22, 2010 7:32 AM
*facepalm*He never showed any understanding of it here. I doubt he is doing any better at your blog.
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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July 22, 2010 7:48 AM
He claimed that all cancer (and disease) is ultimately caused by entropy.Posted by: PZ Myers
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July 22, 2010 7:51 AM
Well, it is. All biological processes are thermodynamically driven, so ultimately, everything is entropic.
It's true. It's just stupidly, trivially true.
But then, that's Stimpy. Thick.
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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July 22, 2010 8:25 AM
I think when it comes to Stimpy he sometimes uses Entropy to mean Shannon Entropy as opposed to SLoT. Not sure which one he is referring to at any given time.
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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July 22, 2010 8:28 AM
Also him commenting that entropy causes aging reminded me of Kent Hovind's "solar aging theory".
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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July 22, 2010 9:22 AM
Kel, if you want to have some fun with Stimpy, keep reminding him he has nothing until he publishes his results in the peer reviewed scientific literature. Then post links to science and nature for submitting papers.
Posted by: corbin.beth
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July 25, 2010 2:37 AM
PZ you've got my support!
BAC