One of the giant panels I was on at Convergence is now a podcast at the Secular Buddhist. It's got me, Bug Girl, Jennifer Ouellette, Lyra Lynx, Maria Walters, Jen Mana, Ted Meissner, Debbie Goddard, Carrie Iwan, and Dave Walbridge, and I'm already worn out just listing them. It was also very well attended: SF conventions are hotbeds of godlessness.
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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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More articles by PZ Myers can be found on Freethoughtblogs at the new Pharyngula!
We were all losing our religion
Category: Personal
Posted on: July 27, 2010 11:58 AM, by PZ Myers
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Comments
Posted by: Benny the Icepick
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July 27, 2010 12:15 PM
Speaking of "Losing our religion," there's a homophobe in Georgia who wants to be a counselor, but the school is threatening to dismiss her unless she changes her view on homosexuality and gender:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/27/georgia-university-tells-student-lose-religion-lawsuit-claims/
Posted by: tonysidaway
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July 27, 2010 12:37 PM
Re #1, it looks like the school interpreted her expression of her religious beliefs in classroom discussions as incompatible with her chosen profession. Obviously such a person would be a disastrously bad school counsellor but I think the case could go either way. This could well be a freedom of expression issue.
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 27, 2010 12:38 PM
That was just a dream.
Posted by: Brian
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July 27, 2010 12:42 PM
Phweeeet! Five-point penalty for making sub rosa references to rock lyrics. Go sit in the corner.
Posted by: Benny the Icepick
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July 27, 2010 12:42 PM
Agreed, Tony. My response to the person who sent me the article:
Would you graduate a biology student who doesn't accept evolution? Or a medical student who believes only in voodoo?
She's not being asked to "lose her religion," as the headline states. She's being told that she is unfit to assume a professional position because she's failing to understand a fundamental aspect of that profession. This has nothing to do with her religion and everything to do with the potential catastrophic impact she may have on those she chooses to counsel.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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July 27, 2010 12:56 PM
In some ways, it wasn't so bad to give up religion in my family young, because having problems with such a fundamentalist religion didn't seem so strange. But of course most would smoke or drink, and intellectual opposition instead (mostly instead) was both a relief and something no one really knew how to address.
The cliches "helped them explain," since, you know, intellectuals get these "weird ideas." It's dismissive and stupid, yet it sort of helps them. If you can talk to them fairly reasonably (and generally I could), many were sort of happy about that, since non-belief was often something they hadn't encountered and couldn't really discuss.
I can't say that most of family or church members were all that bad, yet of course you were socially at the fringe, at best. Over time in the family, different beliefs had to be accepted, as the siblings generally left the church. Mostly, we just don't discuss it with my Mom, since the best that could be is to make her unhappy, and the worst would be if she essentially lost her entire world, which is her religion (highly unlikely).
Glen Davidson
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 27, 2010 1:03 PM
Brian:
Consider this the slip that brought me to my knees, failed...
Posted by: truthspeaker
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July 27, 2010 1:03 PM
Keep in mind that article only quotes the plaintiff and her attorney. I find it more likely that the student was required to attend a class in what she could say to her clients while working as a counselor, not a class to change her beliefs.
Remember, fundies lie. Lawyers lie. Lawyers representing fundies - well, you can guess what they do.
Posted by: sphex
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July 27, 2010 1:12 PM
hmmm... does it count as hijacking the thread if, instead of the tangent the thread is currently on, I comment on the original post? I hope not- and offer apologies to all if it does.
Re: original post: Particularly in light of recent discussions here, it's heartening to note how many of the panelists are women! :)
(and now, back to the tangent)
Posted by: 01jack
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July 27, 2010 1:18 PM
@sphex:
Thanks. As I read that I realized that I'd forgotten entirely what the post was about.
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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July 27, 2010 1:41 PM
Benjamin: Now you've said too much.
Posted by: Brian
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July 27, 2010 1:56 PM
Ahh, you set that up.
Posted by: Curt Cameron
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July 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Remember, fundies lie. Lawyers lie. Lawyers representing fundies - well, you can guess what they do.
Uhhh.... they lie about lying?
Posted by: Andrew Hall
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July 27, 2010 2:35 PM
If they get caught lying they invent a bigger lie.
http://laughinginpurgatory.blogspot.com/2010/07/talking-about-my-religious-past-ask-me.html
Posted by: The Rambling Scholar
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July 27, 2010 2:36 PM
Sphex @ #9
I would like to take a moment to join you off-tangent and absolutely agree.
Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
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July 27, 2010 3:09 PM
Brian:
I think I thought I saw you try.
Posted by: hkdharmon
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July 27, 2010 4:31 PM
Fundie's lawyers always tell the truth. I will prove it. It is mathematical.
lie = -1(truth)
(-1(truth))^2= truth
I got my math degree at Liberty University.
Posted by: Frank b
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July 27, 2010 9:25 PM
I attended that panel at Convergence, and got to meet my tentacled Overlord, PZ. The best person on that panel (sorry PZ) was Lyra Lynx. She wowwed everyone. This is a very objective assessment, no bias on my part:)
Posted by: Aratina Cage
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July 27, 2010 9:58 PM
I can't believe they bleeped out "fuck" and "shit" and "crap" (I think that is what PZ said). What prudes.
Anyway, it was a good discussion with great audience participation. It almost derailed at the end when one person started talking about atheists berating theists in public and stuffing their atheism down the throats of Christians—just like Tom Johnson did at the Intersocktion.
Posted by: John Morales
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July 27, 2010 10:26 PM
Downloading now.
I note the panel's gender balance seems pretty even. Nice.
Posted by: John Morales
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July 27, 2010 10:31 PM
re #18 "Murphy" - Uzbek/Azerbaijani spam? Sigh.
Posted by: Sillysighbean
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July 27, 2010 11:42 PM
Podcast is rated PG, censored, with lame jokes. I found it to be a bit bland.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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July 28, 2010 3:16 AM
That's YOU in the corner?
Posted by: Birger Johansson
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July 28, 2010 9:03 AM
Murphy @ 18:
-Is that link in Enochian, or some other non-human language ?