…and this is a 
Bernadette Barton provides an interesting perspective on Ken Ham's wretched little palace of ignorance. The Creation "Museum" is not a happy place.
Particularly nerve-wracking were signs warning that guests could be asked to leave the premises at any time. The group's reservation confirmation also noted that museum staff reserved the right to kick the group off the property if they were not honest about the "purpose of [the] visit."
Because of these messages, Barton said, the students felt they might accidentally reveal themselves as nonbelievers and be asked to leave. This pressure is a form of "compulsory Christianity" that is common in a region known for its fundamentalism, Barton said. People who don't ascribe to fundamentalism often report the need to hide their thoughts for fear of being judged or snubbed.
At one point, Barton reported in her paper, a guard with a dog circled a student pointedly twice without saying anything. When he left, a museum patron approached the student and said, "The reason he did that is because of the way you're dressed. We know you're not religious; you just don't fit in." (The student was wearing leggings and a long shirt, Barton writes.)
The pressures were particularly tough for gay members of the group, thanks to exhibits discussing the sinfulness of homosexuality and same-sex marriage. A lesbian couple became paranoid about being near or touching one another, afraid they would be "found out," Barton writes. This "self-policing" is a common occurrence in same-sex relationships in the Bible Belt, Barton said.
I felt it when I was there. I didn't fit in, either, and having guards with dogs wandering about isn't exactly welcoming. I suppose if you were a fundamentalist Christian with a finely honed persecution complex, you might appreciate visiting an armed camp where conformity is enforced, but it really wasn't my favorite atmosphere.
The article does get the creationist's side of the story.
The signs and warnings, he said, are because people will occasionally come to the museum to hand out anti-Creationist materials, disturbing other visitors.
"We know that the nature of the subject is controversial," Lisle said in a telephone interview. "It's just one of the things that we have to deal with in a fallen world."
Lisle defended the anti-gay messages in the museum as part of the museum's goal to stay true to Biblical teachings.
Funny, isn't it…creationists come to real museums all the time, hand out their literature, even lead tour groups through and babble stupidly against the message of the exhibits, and no one patrols the place with police dogs to suppress the free expression of dissent. I wonder why?
Comments
Posted by: raven
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August 20, 2010 12:40 PM
One of their hobbies is visiting real museums and attacking any staff they can find verbally.
Most museums nowadays have to train their people to deal with demented, aggressive religious kooks.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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August 20, 2010 12:40 PM
Because us jack-booted evolutionist thought police have the population so terrified that we don't even need to advertise our presence anymore?
Posted by: circleh
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August 20, 2010 12:40 PM
Because only lies need to be enforced by tyrants. Truth always stands on its own.
Posted by: raven
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August 20, 2010 12:45 PM
Hominid fossils are now generally kept in secure, armored locations. Otherwise, they would be destroyed by creationists if they could get to them.
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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August 20, 2010 12:47 PM
Fragile ideas require constant tending to and vigilant protection from scrutiny, so it seems.
The opposite of fragile ideas, I think, is referred to as nonfiction.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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August 20, 2010 12:49 PM
[Ahem.]
HEY KEN: TEACH THE FUCKING CONTROVERSY, YOU DESPICABLE, LYING, COWARDLY PIECE OF SHIT!
Sorry about that.
Posted by: percyprune
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August 20, 2010 12:51 PM
This does not resemble the inoffensive liberalish Christianity I was brought up with (and which I later rejected). This is nasty, authoritarian stuff. Who would want to live under such oppressive conditions of conformity?
I know there are Christians out there who feel comforted by this ability to go through life unchallenged. What poor, meagre souls they must be.
Posted by: Dwpeabody
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August 20, 2010 12:51 PM
I remember a group of Christians traveling around the natural history museum in London harassing people around the exhibits. I also remember them loudly claiming that this or that dinosaur was a fake because it was a cast of an original fossil that the museum has in its vaults.
As a side note the natural history museum is probably where I feel most at home in the world. It is a cathedral of nature, I wish I could get married there.
Posted by: Disturbingly Openminded
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August 20, 2010 12:52 PM
Brownian, FTW
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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August 20, 2010 12:53 PM
Because reality is the threat.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: raven
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August 20, 2010 12:54 PM
The usual xian fallacy. "We annoy people, we are obnoxious, therefore god exists."
Posted by: Nicholas Laux
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August 20, 2010 12:55 PM
Wow, I totally misread the title of this post - I thought it said 'A scientologist visits the Creation "Museum"'
I'd actually be curious to see what one crazy thought about something this out there from another (but different) crazy - if they're applaud the whole "being a fundamentalist" despite it being different, or just the expected "anyone different is wrong".
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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August 20, 2010 12:58 PM
Gee, I don't recall that -- did I just miss it? Or is it our fault? If so -- good on us ;-).
Posted by: Mattir-ritated
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August 20, 2010 1:01 PM
Brownian, you are my god.
Really.
Posted by: Gaebolga
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August 20, 2010 1:06 PM
PZ Myers said:
C'mon, PZ, you know the answer to this one already: The Totalitarian Evolutionist Conspracy© has invisible death rays everywhere.
That's why you never, ever see a True Christian™ speak in public more than once; anyone foolish enough to flout the Conspiracy is immediately dispatched. Invisibly.
Why the hell do you think atheists study science? It's got nothing to do with "reason" or "knowledge" or "the betterment of humanity." Godless atheists are obviously incapable of caring about anyone but themselves.
It's all about the death rays, baby!
Posted by: Sastra
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August 20, 2010 1:06 PM
Poor creationists, they want it both ways. Their faith is a reasonable faith based on facts and backed up by objective scientific evidence -- but it's also a fragile, delicate thing, a choice one adheres to the way a small child clings to its mother. The first view stands up to challenge: the second requires the protection of a cloistered environment.
So, they compromise by trying to combine the two. They create a protective, cloistered environment that mimics a view that has successfully stood up to challenge, and now fears only disgruntled hoodlums chastened by their defeat.
Posted by: pdferguson
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August 20, 2010 1:08 PM
What's especially ironic is someone from Ken Ham's House of Religious Idiocy talking about "a fallen world". The breathtaking deceitfulness, willful ignorance, and jackboot tactics on display there epitomizes a fallen world.
Posted by: irenedelse
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August 20, 2010 1:16 PM
Paranoia, projection and intimidation. The creationist way of knowing.
Posted by: ThirdMonkey
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August 20, 2010 1:17 PM
"They peppered Dr. Durkee with questions about everything from techniques for dating fossils to the second law of thermodynamics, their queries coming so thick and fast that she found it hard to reply."
That's because they don't really care to hear the answer. They had their checklist of questions prepared beforehand and were asking them fast to throw Dr. Durkee off balance. They were just waiting for her to say "I don't know" to any single question. If she had they would've declared: "See! The scientists don't really know anything! This particular scientist didn't know the answer to one particular question! We exposed her as a fraud! How can those hypocrits call themselves authorities? Science is a lie!"
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 1:23 PM
Why kick atheists out? How can they expect to persuade us that we're wrong if we aren't allowed to see the evidence in the "God did it" museum?
Posted by: Yoav
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August 20, 2010 1:26 PM
Raven wrote
And then they can claim that there are no fossils that support human evolution.
Posted by: Delirious Lab
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August 20, 2010 1:29 PM
Apologetics is not about converting unbelievers. It's about shielding irrational beliefs against reason and evidence.
Posted by: davem
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August 20, 2010 1:29 PM
You can.Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 1:31 PM
The dogs! What's with the dogs?
These jokers either have: (i) the stupidity to think they can sniff out unbelievers, (ii) the hubris to think that atheists want to bomb them, or (iii) the desperation to think that empty gestures of intimidation will make them look more impressive.
Posted by: billygutter01
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August 20, 2010 1:40 PM
@12
I read the title as Scientologist visits creation "Museum" too.
I had visions of Xenu and Noah arm wrestling.
Hmmm... I wonder who'd win.
Any thoughts?
Posted by: Cory Meyer
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August 20, 2010 1:40 PM
Someone posted AiG's response:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/08/20/feedback-please-stop-the-hate
[comic sans]"On Wednesday, the popular LiveScience.com site posted a commentary that slammed the Creation Museum with blatant untruths, misinformation, and anti-Christian bigotry... As such, it became necessary for the Creation Museum and Answers in Genesis to respond to the hit piece... We have found that many secularists resort to mockery since they can find no logically legitimate basis for criticizing the Creation Museum."[/comic sans]
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 1:41 PM
Delirious Lab@22-
B.. b... but that's dishonest.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/cemAX6cih9TgU2BOcZGfj1yv.Ps-#8fef5
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August 20, 2010 1:47 PM
Nicholas Laux @ #12:
I'm another who misread it at first as Scientologist. That would have been, um, enlightening had it happened.
Funny -- I just saw the Cezanne exhibit at the Phoenix Art Museum. Here are these expensive works of art in arm's reach, but the only real security I saw were some docents. Not a dog in sight.
Slaughter
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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August 20, 2010 1:47 PM
Thinking back to, eg. the Derek Rogers atheist T-shirt incident (just to toot my own horn, see here), I realize that the place is not meant to inform even its own constituency of their own beliefs, so much as to provide them with a comforting, affirming experience. It's more like a church service than a museum tour. This has the side-effect (unintentional, I think, since this is a proselytizing movement) of creating alienation among those not part of the target group.
@24: You've missed one possiblity: iv) To communicate the Evil Infidel message to their own in-group -- "Look, here's a dangerous atheist! But don't worry, we're protecting you from him!"
Posted by: KIN
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August 20, 2010 1:51 PM
Because they're wrong.Posted by: history punk
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August 20, 2010 1:58 PM
Jesus Christ, I love to see what the Creation Museum yokels would do if confronted some of the occupational hazards faced by urban museums. Seriously, if they sinners are bad and required guard dogs, I like to see their actions to having squatters throw poop fresh from the anus at you, or homeless whipping out and pissing on your building, or masturbating to fantasies of you because you refuse to give them money because they keyed your card.
Worst yet, keep in mind that poop flinging may occured on a Sunday which means the interns won't be there to clean it up.
Posted by: Brian, Defender of Tone Trolls
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August 20, 2010 1:59 PM
It's a living, breathing diorama of Poe's Corollary in action.
They aren't just policing the place for the obvious unbelievers; they also have to be on a hair trigger because even people apparently toeing the line may still be taking the piss.
Imagine an entire society run by these people?!
Oh wait, we don't have to because it's happening in Afghanistan despite the presence of the glorious troops of the *NHH.
*Northern Hemispheric Hegemony
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 2:01 PM
I actually agree with Eamon@29. The Creation Museum isn't trying to educate or persuade anyone. It's just a creotard circle jerk fest. "See, we can't possibly be wrong. We have a museum and everything."
Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 2:09 PM
WTF?
Posted by: KennyG
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August 20, 2010 2:12 PM
[blockquote]Funny, isn't it…creationists come to real museums all the time, hand out their literature, even lead tour groups through and babble stupidly against the message of the exhibits, and no one patrols the place with police dogs to suppress the free expression of dissent. I wonder why?[/blockquote]
Because, man, the Evolutionist World Conspiracy© has maintained a stranglehold on power through the Rockefellers and the Masons and the Illuminati for the past 50 years, man, and they realize that if they crack down on the creationist protesters at museums than people will realize that they're being ruled by an invisible empire and kept in line with distractions like football, man, and the people will rebel, man.
Posted by: KennyG
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August 20, 2010 2:15 PM
Crap! I screwed up the blockquote tags.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/nLzNsvBzjcVWHqXNyEN1lcQmrB7cxEBb#3b6bf
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August 20, 2010 2:20 PM
@ Mr Fire #24
Embrace the power of AND.
Posted by: Steve LaBonne
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August 20, 2010 2:22 PM
The raging paranoia of these types fascinates me. It would be the understatement of the year to say that they don't behave like people who are secure in their beliefs. At some level they are clearly all too aware of what a fragile construct their fortress of bullshit really is.
Posted by: history punk
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August 20, 2010 2:27 PM
#34
that should be "reactions" to those things I listed.
Seriously, if they have guard dogs to deal with sinners, I'd be enertained to see their reaction to somebody jerking off in or about their august institution.
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 2:31 PM
I don't see how that in any way clarifies MrFire's query. Srsly.
Posted by: percyprune
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August 20, 2010 2:33 PM
CONFORM! CONFORM! DO NOT LET EVO MATERIAL NEAR THE POOR SENSITIVE MINDS OF THE GODLY!
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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August 20, 2010 2:37 PM
Why would that be a problem? Aren't you the ones insisting on "teaching the controversy"?
Posted by: abb3w
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August 20, 2010 2:38 PM
ThirdMonkey: That's because they don't really care to hear the answer. They had their checklist of questions prepared beforehand and were asking them fast to throw Dr. Durkee off balance. They were just waiting for her to say "I don't know" to any single question.
In part, but not "just". They were also asking the questions so that they could remember their own rote answers to these questions -- a form of persuasion resistance by rote affirmation, attitude bolstering, and/or assertion of confidence.
I conjecture responding in a Socratic style - guiding them to give parts of the answer or to admit areas of their own ignorance - might be more conducive to education, albeit still will faint prospects.
MrFire: (iii) the desperation to think that empty gestures of intimidation will make them look more impressive
It's a confusion of Dominance and Prestige; see (doi:10.1016/S1090-5138(00)00071-4) and (doi:10.1016/j.evolhumbehav.2007.04.003). It seems common for people to confuse the two forms of Authority. Dominants are more agressive when confronted; I conjecture that the reason the prestigious are less so is because they often can more easily destroy you merely by letting you go your own damn-fool way.
Posted by: barndad
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August 20, 2010 2:42 PM
RE:DWPeabody.
I dont know about marriages in the NHM but you can have receptions in the Oxford University Museum of Natural History. I cant remember where I read it but the OUMNH can be easily described "as if the Natural History Museum came up to Oxford and pupped".
Its a beautiful building and fantastic museum.
Posted by: Dania
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August 20, 2010 2:49 PM
But the controversy only exists because some people are wicked and hate god, and the existence of these people can only explained by the fact that we live in a "fallen world". I think that's what they mean...
Posted by: pdferguson
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August 20, 2010 2:49 PM
Apparently, these imbeciles don't consider several thousand years of scientific knowledge to be a legitimate basis for criticism.
Fucking morons...
Posted by: futuremonkey
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August 20, 2010 2:51 PM
Leggings and a long shirt?? Clearly the student was a time traveler from the future attempting to visit 1983 but missed. Either time travel is relatively imprecise, or people of the future are going to have a hard time matching fashion to the times. I hope that doesn't mean that all the bountiful records of our cultures gets destroyed sometime between now and whenever that time traveler came from!
Posted by: Yoav
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August 20, 2010 3:01 PM
Are the dogs just dogs or are they hellhounds charged with holding back the forces of satan from entering the hallowed creation "museum" (and as we learned from our vortex friend recently, all atheists are in love with satan).
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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August 20, 2010 3:09 PM
That's easy. America is not a totalitarian society of enforced intellectual conformity... at least not yet.
What we are seeing in the Creation 'Museum' is a frightening microcosm of what the fundies dearly wish they could do to society at large.
Authoritarian theocracy is the preferred wet dream of all too many religious kooks. If they have their way, it will not be long before we have Star Chamber-esque senate hearings in the US asking the question;
"Are you now, or have you ever been, an atheist?"
Posted by: raven
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August 20, 2010 3:21 PM
It isn't a museum. It is a theme park.
A matter of time until they put in rides, a nightclub, casino, water park, and hold music concerts there. Creationland will make a fortune.
Posted by: Stushie
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August 20, 2010 3:35 PM
"People who don't ascribe to fundamentalism often report the need to hide their thoughts for fear of being judged or snubbed."
Funny how Christians feel the same thing when they make comments here on this blog. I guess you're all just two sides of the same coin.
Posted by: history punk
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August 20, 2010 3:41 PM
My first post and then the attempt at correction was a snarky remark about how would the Creation Museum react to real threats given their use of guard dogs to wrangle "sinners". I then listed three of the many screwed up things I witnessed during my previous career as a museum employee. In my previous life: I have seen or witnessed or heard from reliable individuals:
For example, I once had a homeless gentleman drop his pants and furiously masturbate to what appeared to be a rape fantasy involving me because I refused to give him money I did not have.
Also once witnessed a guy whip it out and take a leak on the building.
A close friend of mine once had a guy take a shit in his hand and then fling it "grenade style" at my friend in revenge for "dissing him."
Now, again, my post was snark thinly veiled as thought experiment. I mean if they have dogs to deal with people in long shirts and leggings, what would Ken Hamm do if someone snuck in, screamed "You're a lying pile of crap, Mr. Hamm," and proceeded to fling poop.
By the way, if anyone is interested, a lot of museums in the Baltimore/DC area are looking for Fall interns. While the famous museums like the Smithsonian get flooded with wannabe interns, the smaller museums often get few applicatants despite being equally interesting, more flexible, and more generous with the grading.
Posted by: abb3w
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August 20, 2010 3:43 PM
Gregory Greenwood: Authoritarian theocracy is the preferred wet dream of all too many religious kooks.
...with the implicit presumption they get to be the authoritarian theocrats, of course.
And, to be fair, dominance is a common fantasy, almost irregardless of one's religion. Who hasn't daydreamed about being famous, rich, and powerful? The trouble comes in when some people have trouble grasping that there are inevitably massive differences between idealized fantasy and the messy reality. Or rather, lots of people.
Posted by: Ch'tturgha
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August 20, 2010 3:45 PM
raven said:
A matter of time until they put in rides, a nightclub, casino, water park, and hold music concerts there. Creationland will make a fortune.
That already exists. It's in Florida (around Orlando, I think) and is called "The Holy Land Experience", if I recall correctly. They have daily (possibly twice daily!) crucifixions of Jesus, plus all sorts of other delightful cosplay.
Posted by: makyui
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August 20, 2010 3:49 PM
Uhh...
Putting together an isolated hidey-hole with Keep Out signs and big dogs, and making it forbidden to make disagreement of any sort, lest someone get their feelings hurt and their faith crushed = an open* forum where discussion and disagreement is allowed?
Granted, folks here will snark the particularly stupid stuff, but... whut?
*Most times you need a username, to keep spambots out.
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 3:53 PM
OK, history punk, that does clarify it a bit. I was worried about you for a minute there.
You make it sound so tempting...
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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August 20, 2010 3:56 PM
Oh please, being called out on one's stupidity isn't the same as being intimidated into silence.
FYI at least two of the OMs here are Christians.
Posted by: Dania
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August 20, 2010 3:59 PM
Yes, the idea that someone may strongly disagree with something you posted on the comment section of a blog is truly terrifying.
Posted by: Marco
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August 20, 2010 4:01 PM
Stushie wrote in post #51:
Oh, Stushie, you are sooooo deep and impressive.
Please keep posting: we wouldn't want to miss comments of such cutting intellectual clarity, which remind us longingly of the elevated level of discourse that occurs in your quarters.
Posted by: Travis
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August 20, 2010 4:02 PM
Do you really think this place is the same as the "museum"? Are you really equating a place that actively tries to keep people who disagree quiet, stifle dissent, and intimidate people with an open forum where you can say anything you want but others might make you feel bad by saying you are stupid or explaining why you are wrong or silly?
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 4:04 PM
Are you here to play victim, or do you have something cogent to add?
I would love to hear your defense of the intimidation practice of walking dogs past people.
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 4:07 PM
I would also add, Stushie, that you don't have to pay to get in here.
Posted by: Badjuggler
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August 20, 2010 4:09 PM
"It's just one of the things that we have to deal with in a fallen world."
I've fallen and I don't wanna get up!
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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August 20, 2010 4:18 PM
Stushie @ 51;
I do not think that it is reasonable to compare the wholly justified mockery of religious kookery seen on this blog, and even PZ's feared Banhammer, to some jumped up would be theocrat seeking to intimidating dissenters with a guard dog.
No amount of online mockery or even shrill dickishness could ever be considered to be equivilent to physical intimidation, no matter how strong the collective christian persecution complex may be.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 20, 2010 4:18 PM
Does Lisle also defend prohibitions against cotton-polyester blend clothes and eating shrimp? If not, he's a hypocrite.
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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August 20, 2010 4:22 PM
Stushie @15: Funny how Christians feel the same thing when they make comments here on this blog. I guess you're all just two sides of the same coin.
This (among other things) is a place where atheists come to sound off. No one is forcing Christians to come and read it. Even if some of what gets said is over the top on occasion, people who don't like it can go somewhere else. That is not the same as the case of an atheist (or gay, or even just the wrong kind of Christian) living in certain parts of the country, where being 'out' can mean real difficulties just leading your life. (And a certain proportion of the sounder-offers are atheists who deal with that kind of thing in meatspace).
Posted by: raven
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August 20, 2010 4:24 PM
Not even close, an apples to oranges comparison.
You are here volunarily. Atheists are often born into fundie death cult families and have to live in remote places crawling with them such as Texas, Oklahoma, the entire southeast etc..
Xians are a majority with 76% of the population. Atheists are a minority sometimes hated and persecuted by that majority.
You are also merely a troll here to act out and demonstrate what happens when toxic fundie xian religion gets into a living brain. That is, IQ points run away by the dozens.
Posted by: erobg
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August 20, 2010 4:28 PM
Perhaps, because it is their institution and they are more than welcome to kick out anyone they desire?...
Posted by: makyui
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August 20, 2010 4:31 PM
erobg:
The question is not whether or not they can do it. The question is why.
Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies!
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August 20, 2010 4:36 PM
Well, I'm new here (as a matter of fact, just made this account for posting) and am a Christian. And for the longest time feels a little intimidated posting here.
On the topic of Creation "Museum" (urgh), this really paints a fairly chilling picture. My previous conception is that yes, it's a fruity attraction, but should be fairly harmless (people who went there probably doesn't even need a museum). But this is just... creepy.
Posted by: daveau
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August 20, 2010 4:41 PM
UberFubarius-
This is an intimidating place to nearly anyone. You don't have to be a christian to be eaten by lions. Welcome.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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August 20, 2010 4:44 PM
Welcome, UberFubarius. Good work. We'll most likely kill you in the morning.
Posted by: alareth
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August 20, 2010 4:46 PM
i'm amazed at how little faith the evangelical religious types have in their own faith.
Down in Orlando there is a theme park called "The Holy Land Experience" that has re-enactments of scenes from the New Testament. The Jewish Defense League protested the park and tried to have it shut down on the grounds the only reason the park was built was to entice Jews to convert to Christianity.
I remember thinking that if your faith was so weak that it could be changed by visiting a theme park there are bigger things to worry about in your personal life.
The same goes for the Creation Musuem, if you need actual guards to protect you from opposing ideas you faith is on shaky footing to begin with.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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August 20, 2010 4:51 PM
Stushie, here's a clue that the two aren't similar.
You just spoke you're mind, and you're still here, having lost nothing but your time.
Those women in the Creationist dreck pile Ham likes to think is a museum, had they spoken, or behaved naturally, would have had their entire group thrown out. Fortunately they don't seem to live in that area, so no LONG TERM consequences, but they'd have wasted a huge number of people's time and money.
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 4:55 PM
But it's not "harmless" at all. The intent of the hall of ignorance is to indoctrinate under the guise of educating. They deny all of biology, geology, astrophysics and more. The haughty Ken Ham claims to know better than all of science...and he is doing this for one reason only. To make money.
But, of course, all of religion peddles lies in the interests of power-mongering and money-making.
Posted by: Dania
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August 20, 2010 4:55 PM
Welcome! And please, don't feel intimidated. Just be warned that this place is not for the thin-skinned. Not at all. :)
But being a Christian doesn't mean you're going to be hated by everyone here. There are at least two well-respected regulars on this blog who are Christians and Molly winners.
Posted by: Kieranfoy, Faerie Godfather of Death, GMKSC, OED
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August 20, 2010 4:55 PM
Hi, Uberfarious. By posting as a Christian here, you have proven yourself to have a cast iron spine. Well done!
Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies!
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August 20, 2010 5:00 PM
Damn, never got around to see that movie (keep forgetting).I volunteered at a museum a few times before, mostly to watch over exhibits and make sure nothing bad happens. One day there was this employee giving a tour of the paloentology section and this lady came up to him and asked "So you believe we came from monkeys?"
Paraphrasing the employee's response: "Yes, your presence offers plenty of evidence for that."
Priceless.
Posted by: makyui
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August 20, 2010 5:06 PM
Not to mention the comparison between being heckled and having your words picked apart, with the threat of physically being attacked by a dog.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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August 20, 2010 5:06 PM
Leave this website.
Get thee to a video store.
Now.
Posted by: Travis
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August 20, 2010 5:09 PM
Welcome Uberfarious. I second Dania's statement about not being thin skinned. It is certainly not just the Christians on here that have to grow a thick skin, everyone has to. People will disagree with you and not everyone will be nice about it. I always thought there were two really important things to remember here:
1. Do not just latch onto the posts by assholes, ignore the ones without any substance and try to respond to the intelligent (not that those will always be nice either but you can be biting and have meaningful content) messages. Many times people get dogpiled on and seem to only respond to the bad ones ignoring all the good content.
2. Do not expect anyone to give your beliefs any sort of respect just because they are strongly held religious ideas (or any other type of idea, sacred cows beware). Then again if you have been here for any amount of time no doubt you already know that.
Posted by: Brian
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August 20, 2010 5:09 PM
More of the same. The same people who have slogans like "teach the controversy" or now "strengths and weaknesses" etc. etc. would exclude all outsiders, counter evidence and so on.
Same hypocrisy we've seen for a while.
Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies!
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August 20, 2010 5:10 PM
Hence the quoted "previous conception".
Always thought that at the worse, the ones harmed are people who already bought into it.
Keep forgetting that people take kids to these places.
Posted by: Anri
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August 20, 2010 5:20 PM
So... those were mockery-sniffing dogs, then?
Cool! Are those guys a new baramin, or just MicroEvo in action?
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 5:26 PM
There's a lot of scientists and teachers (myself included) around these parts, and we don't take any too kindly to disinformation campaigns. It's hard enough to educate people without having to first disabuse students of foolish nonsense purveyed by scheming liars.
I have been robbed of much teaching time by fools who insist they are entitled to argue the world is 6000 years old.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 20, 2010 5:29 PM
Damn, never got around to see that movie (keep forgetting).
INCONCEIVABLE!
Posted by: unreliablenarrator
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August 20, 2010 5:34 PM
@54, 73:
I've seen pictures/descriptions of the Holy Land Experience thanks to a co-worker's wall calendar, and that thing is tackier than anything I've seen of the Vegas resorts, especially because it gives the Vegas Tacky treatment to things that are supposed to be sacred. On the lawn ornament scale, THLE is somewhere around the "cupid pissing into a shell" fountain, and what I've seen of the Creation "Museum" places it at the Santa w/ reindeer display in June level.
It looks like whoever built the place was trying to capitalize on the whole Disney/Universal/Sea World tourism for people who refuse to visit such secular parks, because they don't discriminate and are 'worldly', but as much money as it looks like it costs, it really would've been better to use it on programs for needy people. :/ I mean, obv a ton of money got poured into the Experience, but it still looks cheap and tacky (from the photos in the calendar!). They should've put more money in to make it worth a visit even for non-Christians or just not have bothered.
Posted by: Travis
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August 20, 2010 5:36 PM
unreliablenarrator, did your coworker get that calendar from a trip to that wonderful experience or was it a bit of a joke? If it is the former, did they enjoy that tacky place?
Posted by: unreliablenarrator
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August 20, 2010 5:45 PM
She bought it as a souvenir, and she was the fundamentalist sort, so I take it she thought it was wonderful. I think she had some sort of membership pass, but I'm not positive, because we worked at different ends of the office, so I didn't really encounter her enough to discuss it (or want to discuss it - I found the whole thing kind of creepy). I do know that she's the kind who kept an open Bible next to her desk, with the ribbon bookmark carefully placed to bring visitors' attention to a particular verse (I can't for the life of me remember which, but I think it was that "the Lord is my shepherd" one). She also decorated her office with crosses and lilies and things.
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 20, 2010 5:47 PM
There is a shortage of perfect movies in this world. It would be a shame to miss this one.
One more vote for Westley and Buttercup. (The Princess Bride if you still haven't made the time.)
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 5:52 PM
The Princess Bride?
Are you people kidding or what?
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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August 20, 2010 5:58 PM
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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August 20, 2010 6:04 PM
#91
Good luck storming the castle!
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 6:08 PM
#91
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 20, 2010 6:09 PM
Not even with a wheelbarrow and holocaust cloak will you defeat these guards.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/4XoT3O0XxNUw9LuveBs5E3H_c3U8OL8-#37267
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August 20, 2010 6:12 PM
This museum sounds to me like the physical incarnation of a place run by Andy Schafly. What a bore. Oh hello BTW, I'm new here :)
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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August 20, 2010 6:19 PM
Hello #96. It is a bore. However, as stated up-thread, it is dangerous. It gets a lot of visitors and promulgates false ideas about what we know about geology, astronomy, biology, physics, chemistry and history.
It's an elaborate misinformation propaganda park. It, and other campaigns like it, is what gives religious people a sense of confidence in crazy notions like America is a xtian nation and our laws come from the 10 commandments.
Posted by: Tulse
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August 20, 2010 6:26 PM
Stop saying that!
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 20, 2010 6:29 PM
I want my father back you son of a bitch.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 20, 2010 6:31 PM
Offer me money.
Posted by: Matthew G
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August 20, 2010 6:47 PM
Try not saying it when you work with someone named Inigo. It's a daily struggle
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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August 20, 2010 6:50 PM
You seem a decent fellow, I'd hate to die.
Posted by: hobbitjeff22369
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August 20, 2010 6:57 PM
Anybody want a peanut?
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 7:03 PM
@ Tulse, that was fucking brilliant. You are pure krogan, and I am in awe.
Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies
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August 20, 2010 7:13 PM
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 7:23 PM
The Creationists' way is not very sportsmanlike.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkqQXrl7yEsdEmCGIJY6e4vK85szmL2lf8
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August 20, 2010 7:23 PM
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/employment.asp
Armed Public Safety Officer
Education and Experience Requirements
* High school diploma required (Associate or Bachelor’s degree a plus).
* Five year’s security experience, preferably in a cultural property setting or relevant law enforcement and/or military experience.
* Knowledge of security operations and electronic security systems.
Qualifications:
* Must exhibit strong communication skills.
* Must embrace the team concept.
* Must have good problem solving skills and the ability to think "outside the box" for solutions.
* Must have the ability to work under pressure and take charge in rapid escalating situations.
* Must have good public relations and diplomatic skills.
* Position requires a flexible work schedule.
* Must be able to pass (initially and on-going) fitness for duty standards.
* Must be able to pass (initially and on-going) firearms qualification.
Items needed for possible employment:
* Resume
* Salvation testimony
* Creation belief statement
* Confirmation of your agreement with the AiG Statement of Faith
Posted by: MadScientist
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August 20, 2010 7:23 PM
I just wish people would stop visiting that goddamned place. PLEASE, just resist any temptation and stay away from there; there is nothing interesting unless you're fascinated by stupid. One question remains - how do you get to those po' folks who visit and lap up that crap? I'd like to see many more cartoons lampooning Ham's circus.
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 20, 2010 7:30 PM
Sleep well and dream of large logical fallacies.
Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 7:31 PM
It's possible. Pig.
Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 7:34 PM
You'd like to think that, wouldn't you!
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 7:34 PM
Wait a sec, you have to provide salvation testimony as part of your employment package? I want to apply just so I can sue for discrimination.
Posted by: Sioux Laris
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August 20, 2010 7:35 PM
Gosh! Can we post our favorite movie quotes?
Here's one oddly neglected, said calmly but with great passion by one cool replicant:
"I... want... more... life,... fucker!"
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 7:39 PM
@ 92, 93, 94, et al
Thanks. Nothing like a straight answer.
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 7:41 PM
@ Kamaka
Why so serious?
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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August 20, 2010 7:41 PM
Never go against a xtian when discrimination is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha
Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies
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August 20, 2010 7:42 PM
Fezzik, tear his arms off.
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 20, 2010 7:44 PM
Kamaka, I would love to answer you directly, but I've got my country's 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Guilder to frame for it; I'm swamped.
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 7:45 PM
Right, I would be persecuting them by not agreeing with them. I always forget that part. I guess my atheist conversion overlords didn't indoctrinate me as deeply as they thought. Thanks for the heads up. I guess I need another dose of the virus of secular humanism before the transformation is fully complete.
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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August 20, 2010 7:47 PM
Don't pester him. He's had a hard day.
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 7:50 PM
Yeah, I know. He's been mostly dead all day.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/xnK7TG0Lo5mL8GKo5hytRqwpHvFihEl7Eat3.EjEEeCYqC8fHRcH#05c76
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August 20, 2010 7:54 PM
It would take a miracle.
Lithified Detritus
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 7:56 PM
Crap, on topic. Uhhh...
Picture this in the creation museum:
"Mahwiage, that bwessed awwangement, the dweam within a dweam, buh only mahn and wife."
Posted by: ckitching
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August 20, 2010 8:01 PM
Wait a minute. Their security guards are armed? That's a serious level of paranoia going on there.Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 8:01 PM
Are you still trying to win...??
Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies
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August 20, 2010 8:05 PM
I'll explain, and I'll be sure to use small words so that you'll be sure to understand. You warthog-faced buffoon.
(Okay, I'm done now. For realz.)
Posted by: nejishiki
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August 20, 2010 8:05 PM
from #107
wait... i.e. "security guards must be overqualified for the Creation Scientist position."
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 8:08 PM
"Must have good problem solving skills..."
I do not think that means what they think it means.
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 8:08 PM
Fine, have it your way, ya bunch of goddam movie geeks. Now I'll never, ever whatch that movie, just to spite the lot o' ya. Unnerstand? Nevah!
GET OFF MY LAWN!!
Posted by: btthegeek
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August 20, 2010 8:11 PM
@ Kamaka
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
(runs out of building to car)
Posted by: Randomfactor
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August 20, 2010 8:27 PM
"Are you now, or have you ever been, an atheist?"
Hey, now, you can't fault me for that...I was BORN this way.
Posted by: MrFire
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August 20, 2010 8:29 PM
As you wish.
Posted by: Kamaka
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August 20, 2010 8:30 PM
Salvation testimony? Creation belief statement?
How, exactly, does this entity avoid employment discrimination laws? Is this what "religious freedom" has come to?
And just what the ham and piglet is "salvation testimony"?
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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August 20, 2010 8:50 PM
Oh Kamaka, you know when they say "Freedom of Religion", it applys to Christians only. It says so in the Constitution, but remember if you actually read the Constitution you're a terrorist.
Dudes, you've been failing to communicate the evidence for Creationism for a long time now.
Posted by: Miki Z
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August 20, 2010 8:56 PM
As far as I understand (the words' meaning may have changed, as words are wont to do in the hands of the religious), it would be a statement of how you used to be a sinner, but now you're a combat ready Warrior For Christ*. Like Ergun Caner, former Dean of Theology at Liberty University who was removed as Dean but found to have done nothing 'theologically inappropriate' when he
lied aboutembellished his childhood and coming to Christ.Maybe they need a 10 commandments display?
*Please have firearms certification current. Rapidly! Escalating! Situations! at the Creation Museum may occur, including spontaneous loss of faith near atheists. Don't think of it as shooting to kill, think of it as shooting to ensure salvation.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap
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August 20, 2010 9:36 PM
and
Standard disclaimer: not a lawyer, not legal advice.
Religious organizations in the U.S. can restrict employment on religious grounds for prospective and current employees provided the employer receives no public funds. From the Bureau of National Affairs database (fair use) :
The religious requirements for employment posted earlier pretty much torpedoes a Creationists' claim that their museum qualifies in any way as a science museum. This should come up in all dialogs, in-person and on-line, when a creationist conflates the contents of this museum with science or references the museum, its staff or contents in any argument relating to a supposed scientific basis for creationist beliefs.
If it's a science museum, it's guilty of employment discrimination. If it's not guilty of employment discrimination, it's not a science museum.
Posted by: co
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August 20, 2010 9:47 PM
Even if you don't see the movie, read the book. It's just as good, and has every one of those catch-phrases.
Posted by: chaseacross
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August 20, 2010 10:13 PM
Armed guards? The creationist museum has armed guards? Why would a museum filled with garbage need armed guards? I mean, I guess they probably have some valuable religious artifacts in there, but man... And dogs? Dogs??? Are they worried someone is going to smuggle in some drugs? I guess that might make some of the exhibits more bearable.
It's such a disturbing, strange, otherwordly place, and I've had a certain fascination for it, but I never knew it could be so... menacing. I imagine this is what every public space in Red America would look like, were it left to its own devices.
Posted by: CanadianChick
|
August 20, 2010 11:12 PM
So, I just got home from a trip to Cincinnati a few hours ago - Cinci is scary-close to the part of Kentucky that houses the "museum". I toyed with the idea of going, but had no time (and the idea of giving them $20 did not appeal).
There are billboards all over the place advertising the "museum" - and they're all basically the same - a very large picture of a dinosaur of some sort, the words "Creation Museum" and the freeway exit #.
No mention at all of what the place is, that it's biblical, that it's antievolution, nothing. Just ginormous dinosaurs.
I wonder how many innocent tourists have been caught by that trap?
(I did get pictures of the cremains of Big Butter Jesus, so the trip wasn't a complete waste...)
Posted by: Aquaria
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August 20, 2010 11:35 PM
The world to Ken Ham: Am I going mad, or did the word 'think' just escape your lips?
Posted by: eriktrips
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August 21, 2010 12:09 AM
The "Museum" sounds like most of middle America to me. My queer ass stays in the big city where I don't fear for my life because of who I am. Occasionally I'll venture to the wilderness where few will even see me, but the in-between, well..
::shudders::
Doubt there are many Christians who come to this site expecting to get killed, you know?
Hi I'm not new but I rarely say anything. I'm a bit worried about the theocratic fascism waiting just the other side of the tea-baggers, but I was brought up in a family of fundamentalists so I may be overly paranoid. Still, hearing about conditions at the Creation Museum chill me more than amuse.
Posted by: eriktrips
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August 21, 2010 12:13 AM
Whoops. Hope there aren't any other humanities nerds around to see my grammatical error there.
Posted by: John Morales
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August 21, 2010 12:21 AM
[meta]
eriktrips, you're being harder on yourself than any one here is likely to be. Your post was fine. :)
Posted by: Rincewind'smuse
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August 21, 2010 12:37 AM
Holy Crap ,one of my favorie parts----"Wuuuuve......twooo wuuuuuve"Posted by: llanitedave
|
August 21, 2010 12:56 AM
"[meta]
eriktrips, you're being harder on yourself than any one here is likely to be. Your post was fine. :)"
Agreed, definitely easier to understand than anything Fezzik said.
Posted by: eriktrips
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August 21, 2010 1:37 AM
Thanks for the reassurance. I'm not unedumacated but typinkh is harde.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/sM_Gcix31tU34ZhN5ibQPE8k9iNp#04998
|
August 21, 2010 2:25 AM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Posted by: KingUber
|
August 21, 2010 3:09 AM
I like dogs though
Posted by: KingUber
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August 21, 2010 3:12 AM
Also (I don't know if this has been commented on already, but I'm not going to read through all the comments), you would think that if they were really confident that what they were saying was true, they would want non-Christians to come to the museum so they could convert them. By trying to expel all non-Christians, they're saying that they admit their message is only meant for believers already, and won't hold up to scrutiny.
Posted by: Janey Mack
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August 21, 2010 3:51 AM
Just for fun, here's a link to the AiG Statement of Faith referenced above:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/about/faith
I thought I'd read it before, but it is even more nauseating than I remember!
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
|
August 21, 2010 3:57 AM
Ahhhh...guards with dogs, nonsensical imagery with the pretense at reality, crass proselytizing in secular museums but instant confrontation and ejection in their churchy abode...This was the magic of America: The Palin Years. Don't miss it, this Friday at 9 on History Chunnel.
Posted by: defides
|
August 21, 2010 6:36 AM
They have guards with dogs at a museum?
How is that not a fucking huge clue to them that something is not quite right?
Posted by: MadScientist
|
August 21, 2010 7:38 AM
@defides#152: Well, the dog is obviously trained to recognize the stench of Satan - it can sniff out non-believers, muslims, and catholics.
Posted by: eviltwit
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August 21, 2010 8:32 AM
You mean I could get kicked out by simply wandering around the place and pointing and laughing hysterically at everything I see. That might be worth it, really.
Posted by: GravityIsJustATheory
|
August 21, 2010 9:02 AM
OT somewhat, but when and why did "Red" stop meaning Communist and start meaning Republican?
Posted by: halfdeaddavid
|
August 21, 2010 10:34 AM
Maybe, when republicans got to be scarier than communists?
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
|
August 21, 2010 10:48 AM
I would love to read an anthropologist's take on the place. It seems to me that it's very clearly not an educational establishment (no duh), it's wrapped up in cargo cult science but it's ultimately an initiation rite. Hence why non-believers and non-initiated are discouraged from entering the temple.
It never ceases to amaze me how much the "modern sophisticated" religions are really very very very tribal and shamistic.
Posted by: pdferguson
|
August 21, 2010 12:11 PM
When Republicans declared their intention to destroy our country.
Posted by: Sastra
|
August 21, 2010 12:34 PM
KingUber #149 wrote:
Fundamentalists have a very strange understanding of science: they approach it with the assumption that conclusions are always going to fall in line with the "world view" you start out with. There are no neutral observers who weigh evidence, test hypotheses, and arrive together at similar conclusions: they're not even there as hypotheticals. The same evidence will be interpreted in different ways by different people, and this isn't a problem we need to solve. It's the way it is.
The methods of science evolved to eliminate confirmation bias as much as possible, and achieve consensus. Pseudoscience flips this around. Everyone seeks to confirm what they already believe: the people who get the right answer, have done science the right way.
You find out the right answer not through any method, but by checking the answer given in the back of the book: the Bible.
Posted by: Gordy
|
August 21, 2010 12:56 PM
Stephen Dunlap #136
Genius, my friend! I will store that away for future use :)Posted by: Samantha Vimes
|
August 21, 2010 6:45 PM
#51, Stushie, are you *seriously* comparing the possibility of being mocked on a site you choose to come to and has no relevence to your everyday life, to the threat of becoming a social outcast, disowned by family, unable to find work, that exists for people born or financially trapped in Bible Belt towns? You actually believe those forms of oppression are on anything like the same scale.
:points at you and laughs:
There, you've been mocked. Now you can feel smug all day that I showed how mean the nasty Pharyngulites can be.
Posted by: Stardrake
|
August 21, 2010 8:16 PM
Gravityisjustatheory @155:
During coverage of the 2000 election. Several networks used red to indicate states that went to Bush, and blue to indicate states that went for Gore. The terms "Red State" and Blue State" became shorthand for the Rep/Dem divide after that.
Besides, we can't say bad things about Communist Reds anymore--the Chinese ones hold our paper!
(I know they're not really Communist anymore, but they still call themselves Communist.)
Posted by: Tim
|
August 22, 2010 9:51 AM
Janey #150
The "item of faith" I found most humorous was the following:
Interesting. Our Constitution is brief enough to be read in a single sitting, and it was written in English with wording calculated to be transparently clear. Yet we need nine learned jurists, and a zillion lawyers to properly interpret it.But the buybull is its own interpreter. Wow.