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More articles by PZ Myers can be found on Freethoughtblogs at the new Pharyngula!
Category: Religion
Posted on: August 26, 2010 11:50 PM, by PZ Myers
The ol' innocuous bus ads weren't enough for New Zealand, I guess — an advertising company has fired up a wonderfully rude and outrageous anti-religion campaign, with some rather unsubtle posters that are being plastered all around Auckland.
Very rude. I approve.
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Comments
Posted by: djfav
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August 27, 2010 12:00 AM
I see that Pedobear approves, too.
Posted by: playmp1
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August 27, 2010 12:01 AM
I love how Pedobear is hiding in the background. The little creep always finds his way into things... oh crap.
Posted by: Damian
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August 27, 2010 12:03 AM
Is that a bear? I thought it was some weird marsupial...
Posted by: Milya
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August 27, 2010 12:05 AM
That's what pedobear would want you to think.
Posted by: Glenn G
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August 27, 2010 12:11 AM
I am also appoint.
Also congrats on getting better PZ
Posted by: Peter H
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August 27, 2010 12:12 AM
Rather over-the-top. In the bad taste sense. Perhaps appropriate, but who really cares to be so flagrant? There is far too much flagrancy - on all subjects - in this world. Being as deliberately bad-taste as in the posters linked above, one is no better than the thing lampooned.
Posted by: fbudinichd
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August 27, 2010 12:14 AM
If i had money to blow i would definately pay for a campaign like that.
Posted by: djfav
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August 27, 2010 12:14 AM
Yes, making offensive posters is just like raping children. Pedobear approves of your logic.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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August 27, 2010 12:20 AM
@5
Really? You really think that being mean to a child rape racket is as bad as being a member of a child rape racket?
I can't even find a funny comment as that's so dumb assed dumb.
Has playing nice with the church helped anyone?
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 27, 2010 12:22 AM
Hahahahahahaha! I heartily approve.
Peter H:
Yes, of course, Cupcake. A truthful poster is absolutely no better than generations of slavery, torture, murder and rape by an institution which claims being guided directly by god. Uh huh.
You're a fucking idiot.
Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula
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August 27, 2010 12:22 AM
Peter H, #5, wrote:
Peter H, your concern is noted.
And stupid.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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August 27, 2010 12:29 AM
Peter H manages to make the stupidest comment of the day...and that's beating the "WHY IS THE OIL LEAK SO BAD, OIL GETS INTO WATERZ ALL THE TIMEZ. LIBERALZ!!!!!!" comment from the Huffpo thread.
If they gave nobel prizes for Jackassery...
Posted by: seculargaytheist
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August 27, 2010 12:31 AM
Cue Tim Minchin's Pope Song...
Posted by: djfav
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August 27, 2010 12:32 AM
If only making stupid comments was as bad a raping children, we could put Peter H away for a long time.
Posted by: benjdm
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August 27, 2010 12:33 AM
Who is brainwashin' Brian? I'm not up on my brainwashers.
Posted by: AlisonS
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August 27, 2010 12:36 AM
Brilliant! It should be about time for Bill Donohue's head to explode.
Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification
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August 27, 2010 12:49 AM
We need more of stuff like this.
Until we get over our hang-ups that religion is somehow "sacred" or above due criticism, we will never be able to truly bring them to heel for the crimes they gleefully commit at all of our expenses.
Posted by: Cowcakes
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August 27, 2010 12:52 AM
Over the top, offensive and accurate, yet still cannot match the offensiveness of religion itself.
Posted by: Roameo
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August 27, 2010 12:58 AM
Brian Tamaki, NZ's very own american style evangelist/religious profiteer.
Posted by: Galactus35
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August 27, 2010 12:58 AM
The Pope is slandering Pedobear's good name.
Posted by: twinarp
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August 27, 2010 12:58 AM
Sadly, Damien #3.
No marsupials in New Zealand and the only one called a "bear" in Australia,
isn't vaguely related to any bears, in fact hardly related to anything closely.
Ah well, the tyranny of distance strikes again.
BUT, THE CARTOON IS CRACK ME UP FUNNY!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!
Cue maniacal ROFL..
Kaoala are actually Phascolarctidae and the only member of the group.
Posted by: THEHARMONIKZ
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August 27, 2010 1:02 AM
Isn't it a shame that art in this case does not reflect nature?
Posted by: sophia b
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August 27, 2010 1:04 AM
I was thinking meh, not my style til I saw the Brainwashing Brian one. For those who dont know (lucky you)it refers to "Bishop" Brian Tamaki, a homophobic, misoginistic money-grabbing git of the worst sort, leader of Distiny Church. If Americans want to feel that they're not the only ones with such idiots I reccomend wikipediaring them.
@Damian
Marsupial?! Thats Australia...
Posted by: Sean
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August 27, 2010 1:06 AM
Does no one yet recognize that this is done in the style of A Garbage Pail Kid? It brings back fond memories for me! Often there would be duplicates with alternative names...Can anyone top "Pedo Pope"?
Posted by: Finch
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August 27, 2010 1:09 AM
It makes me feel bad for the actual nice, liberal catholics. You know, the one's who's kids are being molested. I know that they're in the minority, but still. The brainwashin' Brian one is the best if you ask me. The Muhammed one buys into race-baiting too much, and although the Jesus one is decent, I would've liked it better if they had "produced by Mel Gibson" in big print along the bottom.
Posted by: benjdm
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August 27, 2010 1:11 AM
Thanks Roameo
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkQoU_fA_m79OUvgCqf9JpTz3eWOXfJdJk
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August 27, 2010 1:12 AM
Sorry for the googlemess, MT wants to constantly resend me my verification email or otherwise denies me permission to submit my post here.
It's astonishing that a streetwear company has taken up anti-religiosity as an advertisement theme. Apparently their trend scouts have reported that their target customer might go for that. It reminds me of the shock ad campaign Bennetton ran, with iRrc starving children, and didn't they also have a dead Jesus in one of them?
This campaign will certainly gain them wide attention, heated discussions in the media and baskets of hate mail. Probably a few reports to the police too. And lots of clicks on their website, because people who are easily offended have no less favorite pastime than perusing things to be offended at. Or, of course, getting told what to be offended at without bothering to gather information.
What will come out of it? Probably more public hate and denigration against atheists. "See, we've told you atheists were ignorant, rude louts, there you have it". Depends on how strong the religious lobbies are in the country. People will compare the ads to nazi propaganda posters and claim that this is another sign of the coming persecution by the approaching atheist dictatorship.
Posted by: CSB
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August 27, 2010 1:13 AM
Still more photogenic than the real Pope.
Posted by: tristan.croll
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August 27, 2010 1:14 AM
Sean&24: yep, I got the reference (loved the Garbage Pail Kids cards as a kid). How about "Buggerin' Bennie"?
Posted by: Graves
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August 27, 2010 1:20 AM
Garbage pail kids were so amazing, I wish I still had all those cards. Whenever I see a play on the cards like this I smile inside.
Posted by: UberAlles
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August 27, 2010 1:21 AM
I'm not religious yet even so, I feel offended. Cool.
Posted by: Cowcakes
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August 27, 2010 1:21 AM
twinarp #21 & Damien #3
The Koalas closest family is one of my favourites*, the Wombat a fellow member of the Diprotodontia sub order Vombatiformes
*Not a favourite if you hit one in a car, they have been known to flip semi-trailers and road trains. Also there is an interesting tale of a Scandinavian rally driver who though he had hit a rock, totalling his car during the Southern Cross Rally up behind Port Maquarie. Then the rock got up and wandered into the bush.
Posted by: DLC
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August 27, 2010 1:25 AM
Would it sound less than accommodationist if I said I want to see the pope in a cell and his entire mafia outfit torn down and sold off to pay for the damages they've done ?
Posted by: raven
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August 27, 2010 1:28 AM
Big deal. They already hate atheists. They are xians, that is what xians do. Atheist haters are dime a dozen.
Cardinal Cormac called atheism the "greatest evil" and blamed them for all the wars in history or some such. Cormac is also up to his pointed hat in the child rape coverups.
Yeah, the religious freaks will hate atheists. They already do so. What else is new?
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 27, 2010 1:33 AM
Apologetic Googlemess:
Yeah, that whole "oh, we're being persecuted" card has been played since the beginning of xianity. They want so badly to be actually persecuted; they never are, so think of this as nice little gift for them. They can run around screaming "persecution!" for a while. Makes them happy.
Posted by: Sean
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August 27, 2010 1:34 AM
@tristan.croll
Good one!
Posted by: Sean
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August 27, 2010 1:36 AM
How about "Rapin' Ratzi"?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 1:40 AM
http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2010/03/05/destiny-church-revolt-destiny-disaster/
last I checked, Tamaki was bailing for OZ.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/gfhg9nZ_1oJzRCtLKnGjfFZi9Cg0#2b1f4
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August 27, 2010 1:42 AM
#6 (He is not a number, he's a human being!!):
"Being as deliberately bad-taste as in the posters linked above, one is no better than the thing lampooned."
I don't think there's any comparison between a poster and a child being raped by a priest. In fact, the more direct, honest and confrontational people are about these things (what you call "bad-taste"), the less mystique these child-raping men in dresses have to hide behind.
Posted by: MadScientist
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August 27, 2010 1:45 AM
@twinarp: No marsupials in NZ? Oh come on, what do you call those giant furry rat-like things you imported from Australia?
Posted by: proodles
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August 27, 2010 1:46 AM
Where can I buy one?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 1:48 AM
No marsupials in NZ? Oh come on, what do you call those giant furry rat-like things you imported from Australia?
roadkill.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 1:54 AM
Kaoala are actually Phascolarctidae and the only member of the group.
it's just a family designation, they're still marsupials, and so of course more closely related to other marsupials than to the placental mammals.
but, other than that, yeah, being the only member in your own family does rather distinguish one.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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August 27, 2010 2:02 AM
Cheap advertising ploy, that could redound to the benefit of religion. Or not, depending on NZ sentiments.
I seriously doubt the people behind it care either way, only knowing that it'll get them noticed.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: reaphsharc
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August 27, 2010 2:16 AM
Go kiwi's! :-)
Posted by: efrique
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August 27, 2010 2:17 AM
@21:
Apart from 60 to 90 million common brushtail possums, and a few wallabies.
You might as well say there are no people in New Zealand - you'd be closer to the truth.
Posted by: efrique
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August 27, 2010 2:20 AM
Hmm. At least it was. Looks like half that now.
Posted by: RamziD
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August 27, 2010 2:20 AM
Of course, you don't have the guts to post the Muhammad one, PZ!
Posted by: RamziD
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August 27, 2010 2:22 AM
What happened? It was supposed to read:
Of course, you don't have the guts to post the Muhammad one, PZ!
Posted by: RamziD
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August 27, 2010 2:24 AM
Never mind, epic fail. I guess putting "channeling Bill Donohue" in between does not work. My bad.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 2:30 AM
You might as well say there are no people in New Zealand - you'd be closer to the truth.
obviously, the point was to indicate that there are no marsupials native to NZ.
which is absolute truth.
bloody Aussie possums!!!
next they'll be giving us their Cane Toads.
Posted by: drendall
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August 27, 2010 2:35 AM
It's not really an anti-religion campaign, is it? This is exactly the sort of dickish thing which really doesn't help. Pointing a finger at the religious and calling them silly names (and perpetuating the "all Muslims are terrorists" myth) is not going to win hearts and minds - it's just going to give ammunition to the twits who preach about godless materialistic atheists.
Fortunately, I expect the company in question is simply trying to sell stuff and get some cheap publicity rather than make a useful contribution to the debate. I imagine they're doing well on the 'publicity' front.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 2:39 AM
It's not really an anti-religion campaign, is it?
no, not really.
it's actually an attempt to sell skateboards.
no shit.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 2:42 AM
...oh, and tshirts.
http://www.eshebrand.com/eshe-streetwear-blog/2010/8/23/eshe-x-muckmouth-posters.html
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 27, 2010 2:45 AM
drendall:
Yes, yes, we all know the accommodationist shtick really works!
Posted by: Cobolt
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August 27, 2010 2:57 AM
Ichthyic is right, it's a street brand. Doesn't hurt to get the message out there though.
I'm just wondering what the reaction would be to me wearing one of these to work on the next Casual Friday would be.
Apparently only 15% of NZers are church goers so they may well have hit the nail on the head.
We might also see a few sakteboard parks as targets for car bombs.lol.
Posted by: Clint
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August 27, 2010 3:00 AM
Interesting to note those skateboards are made in USA.
So if the retailers get lambasted they can always blame those crazy Americans.
Posted by: phhht
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August 27, 2010 3:02 AM
HELLO site manager:
For a few minutes, I have been redirected to
http://c5.zedo.com/jsc/c5/ff2.html?n=1272;c=22;d=14;w=728;h=90
Posted by: Usagichan
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August 27, 2010 3:08 AM
dreadful #52
I suppose if you look at its primary purpose no, but its not exactly pro-religion is it? but as you've just pointed out, that's not the point of the campaign. Perhaps its value is to show that religion is no longer the untouchable 'Sacred Cow' that it once was. and to pearl twisting tone trolls apparently.Nasty unfeeling Atheist I am, I have laughed at the posters - and noted your concern appropriately.
Posted by: One Furious Llama
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August 27, 2010 3:09 AM
Really? I haven't seen any around... or heard anything about them what so ever.
I think I'll try find one tomorrow.
Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe
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August 27, 2010 3:10 AM
my boyfriend's dresser is covered in Garbage Pail Kids stickers, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the reference at allPosted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 27, 2010 3:19 AM
Usagichan:
Oh yes. There's apparently an endless supply of them.
Posted by: Andreas Johansson
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August 27, 2010 3:23 AM
Nah. Humans didn't get any less distinctive when Hominidae was redefined to include the other great apes.
Posted by: druidbros
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August 27, 2010 3:41 AM
And you can buy the tshirts and skateboards here....
http://eshestreetwear.bigcartel.com/
Posted by: Ramases_1
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August 27, 2010 3:43 AM
Damian, #3
"Is that a bear? I thought it was some weird marsupial..."
Damin, what made you possibly think you'd find a marsupial in new Zealand?
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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August 27, 2010 3:43 AM
Cowards! I bet they'd never dare do this to the Muslims!
Huh? Oh ... Nevermiiiiind ...
Posted by: robhoofd
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August 27, 2010 3:44 AM
#52
And my counterargument is 'so fucking what?' Some of us might not give a flying toss about who we're alienating and who we're attracting. How about just having a good rumble with our opponents, and not worrying about them taking a theatrical fall and limping home sobbingly?
If being harsh will give theists ammunition to use against atheists, let the bastards bring it on, and we'll see who has the better arguments.
Anyone who wants to join the debate had better armor up or get the fuck out. There is little room for whining goddamned ninnies blubbering about tone.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 3:45 AM
The Muhammad (PB&J) poster will sell like hotcakes this week in Canada after yet another terror cell of whackos were busted by the RCMP.
Any shred of 'tolerance' I may have had left for religion evaporated after reading about this last group of morons. One of them was even a contestant on Canadian Idol, so it's not like they weren't somewhat Westernized.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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August 27, 2010 3:52 AM
I really don't care if you call the religious names, but the last sentence in what you blockquoted is dangerous for fueling xenophobia. It's also amazingly wrong, on an ethical level.Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 3:57 AM
For a few minutes, I have been redirected to
adblock is your friend.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 4:14 AM
My wife, being leaps and bounds more clever than I, noticed the Muhammad poster and considered for a moment how that may raise the ire of the angry, murderous mobs in the 'Friendly Totalitarian Theocracies Of The Middle East®.' But then she surmised that nobody is going to mess with the Kiwis because Sauron will sic his orcs, trolls and oliphaunts on the attacker.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 4:17 AM
Ichthyic #70: Adblock, or the most recent HOSTS file if you're on a PC.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 27, 2010 4:18 AM
The concern trolls have hit this thread early.
Posted by: Xenithrys
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August 27, 2010 4:34 AM
Yeah, Kiwis: irreverent shit stirrers with no respect for bullshit, authority, or tradition. That's why I love living here.
Posted by: GayHedBri
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August 27, 2010 4:35 AM
Man O Man, will the Atheist Attention Whores stop at nothing?!
Typical, though, they always want the attention, but the problem is it never lasts for long; all they spew is lies.
And, then have hardly an idea of how they're being laughed and giggled at.....
Posted by: GayHedBri
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August 27, 2010 4:37 AM
.....and NEVER to be taken seriously....
Posted by: louis14
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August 27, 2010 4:39 AM
The bus campaigns have been useful for getting the message out there that people who don't believe in gods are not alone.
Hitchens, PZ, Dawkins etc., provide a lot of indigestible gristle for the faithful to chew on, whether or not they're being 'strident'.
Tim Minchins' Pope Song is hilarious AND makes a real point about the Pope, Papists and morals; beautifully 'stridently'.
What's this poster good for? It's just childish. We all know that the Pope has spend a good part of his life aiding and abetting pedophile priests, damaging anti-aids work in Africa etc. Works for which, if there were a hell, he deserves to spend eternity in. So making a silly little poster with Pedo Pope written on it does what exactly?
(Yeah, I know, 'tone troll', 'concern troll', yada yada. Get an argument.)
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 27, 2010 4:40 AM
GayHedAss, do you actually have a point or are you just spewing shit in hopes of getting noticed?
Posted by: Andreas Johansson
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August 27, 2010 4:43 AM
louis14 wrote:
Sells skateboards?
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 27, 2010 4:44 AM
We may know it but a whole lot of folks, many of them Catholics, don't appreciate how evil the Pope and his cult are. The poster may get some of them to consider the Pope as being someone not deserving the title of "Your Holiness."
Posted by: louis14
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August 27, 2010 4:46 AM
@Andreas - yeh maybe!
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 4:55 AM
You know, I didn't like this one nearly as much as the much more offensive Tick-Tock Muhammad and Hole E Christ posters.
New Zealand would be in so much trouble if only the eastern fundies could find a densely populated NZ area to blow themselves up in or if the western fundies could find them on a map.
Posted by: louis14
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August 27, 2010 5:02 AM
@'Tis Himself, OM
Well, I suppose anything's possible. But on the whole, I think Andreas' answer is more likely.
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
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August 27, 2010 5:11 AM
And they've got an FSM T-shirt as well! Pretty darn cool.
To be honest, I'd hesitate to wear the Tick-tock Muhammad T-shirt, for fear of getting blood on it.
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 5:17 AM
And Denmark, eat your heart out.
Posted by: Birger Johansson
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August 27, 2010 5:18 AM
Duckbilled Platypus @ 82:"New Zealand would be in so much trouble if only the eastern fundies could find a densely populated NZ area to blow themselves up in or if the western fundies could find them on a map."
I find it amusing to imagine would-be terrorists trying to fit in in NZ. They would stand out as a sore thumb (it might be easier for Xians, but they would be turned off by the long trans-Pacific flight time, and choose to terrorize their local Americans instead).
In fact, NZ is the perfect place to launch the next "Everybody draw Muhammed" Day. Or Iceland! Set up insulting statues of religious figures at Eyafjallajökull summit, booby trap them so everyone who tries to vandalise them falls through a trapdoor into the lava chamber under the volcano. Terrorists trying to find a densely populated Icelandic area to blow themselves up in would have to settle for blowing up sheep.
Posted by: Rorschach
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August 27, 2010 5:28 AM
Fixed.
I love this campaign, and the poster on the title is hilarious, including Pedo possum.
Posted by: wccrawford
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August 27, 2010 5:43 AM
Wow. I haven't seen a Garbage Pail Kid (fake or real) in a long time. The artist did an awesome job drawing this up.
Posted by: SteveN
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August 27, 2010 5:47 AM
I wonder whether the lack of a poster mocking that other Abrahamic faith, judaism, was an just oversight or whether the authors thought a Jewish caricature would be considered too anti-semetic. If the latter is true, then it somewhat dilutes the 'no holds barred, respectless' aspect of the campaign. Being an equal-opportunity mocker of religions, I would like to see some posters depicting a rabbi, a hindu priest (if such people exist), the Dalai Lama and Tom Cruise.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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August 27, 2010 6:17 AM
Why would I need to "get an argument"? All you have said is that this poster makes you feel uncomfortable.
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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August 27, 2010 6:17 AM
And people here get the vapors over the "you are not alone" ad campaign. Can't imagine the heart attacks over these.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 6:19 AM
Since something about the place sends Kiwis into giggling fits, maybe funneling terrorists up to Taihape will be the ultimate punishment for any who dare with their Jihadist nonsense in NZ.
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 6:20 AM
Birger Johansson @ 86:
:)
On a more grim note, Iceland being an isolated region (both in terms of geology and demography) could also tempt terrorist factions to seek ever more drastic methods of retribution. No clue if they ever got their hands on a nice bar of glowing plutonium or a bucket of enriched uranium, but I don't think they'd want to miss out on an opportunity to impress.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 6:22 AM
Is the Pope a pedophile? That is groundless slander. Wonder who will go to prison, actually. LOL.
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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August 27, 2010 6:25 AM
Clarification - I meant that in a good way. Tone trolls: billboards saying "Don't believe in God? You are not alone" get vandalized, and have news reports with pastors wailing about how God doesn't get respect any more, and people on the street commenting about those nasty atheists getting in everyone's face and being so mean. If even that innocuous of a statement gets that kind of reaction, might as well go whole hog and do something like this. At least it punctures a hole in the idea that religion is special and immune from lampooning.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 6:28 AM
@93
Plutonium doesn't glow. Radiologically it is actually a quite harmless alpha-emitter, at least if you do not breath it or eat it.
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 6:33 AM
@96:
I stand corrected. It may not glow, but you can get it to shine - brightly - right?
Posted by: Rorschach
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August 27, 2010 6:33 AM
While Ratzinger might not be a pedophile himself, he is an enabler of sexual abuse of children, and on the books as such.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 6:36 AM
And a bucket of higly enriched uranium is super critical. Takes less than a gallon (3.8 liters). Wouldn't like to be near that one at all..
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 6:37 AM
What really irks me? Those bastards behind the ad campaign OUT-DICKED US!
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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August 27, 2010 7:01 AM
Which is one reason I find the "they'll use this as ammunition against us" argument so pointless. It's a lame attempt by some to put some weight behind their own discomfort.
Posted by: Eshe
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August 27, 2010 7:05 AM
Hello I'm one of the naughty New Zealanders behind the posters. I just posted our horrible, juvenile thoughts behind the series for anyone who cares. www.eshebrand.com/eshe-streetwear-blog. Since people complained about the non-offensive "there's probably is no god.." bus ads (The bus co. refused to run the ads) and being a bunch of old skaters, we thought lets have some fun indulging our own juvenile sense of humor by giving people something to really complain about. People take this religion stuff way too seriously and that is the point of these posters. The thought of fatwas more than a little scary, but nothing will change if we are afraid to be silly, juvenile and obnoxious. Now if only I can figure out some smart ass idea for homeopathy!
I would also like to point out the posters say "religion is garbage" and not "people who believe in religion are garbage".
Kennedy
Posted by: JB
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August 27, 2010 7:16 AM
#93, #97, #99
A close relative tells me that during the 1950s he and his friends would put two blocks of uranium together and see how hot they would get. (It gets cold in the Australian desert at night apparently.) I assume they never got as far as glowing red-hot though, since he is still with us. However, presumably it is reasonably controllable.
Two half-buckets to be mixed at the right time?
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 7:18 AM
Congratulations on your team, Eshe - it really takes some guts to be this in-your-face about it. Be sure to reserve a place on your site to showcase the lovely E-mails you are bound to receive. =)
If I would get any ideas for your homeopathy campaign I'll drop you guys a message.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 7:35 AM
@Kennedy
"Religion is garbage" is better than "people who believe in religion are garbage". But you also say that Papa Ratzi is a pedo, which is more problematic.. What if you are sewed?
@JB
Making a powerful explosive of HEU (highly enr. uranium) is awfully simple, due to the very low spontaneous neutron emission. Better watch out really carefully for all of that stuff! Russia has about 1000 metric tons of it, enough for more than 10 000 Hiroshima bombs. (WHY?? Really beats me. It is not even the best bomb material for a sophisticated Nuclear Weapon State, which would preferrably use plutonium which has a much smaller critical mass.)
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 7:36 AM
@99: I didn't intend to be addressed scientifically about it in any possible way. I'll never mention uranium and plutonium again. :(
@103: :o
Posted by: dinkum
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August 27, 2010 7:42 AM
Been there. That's why my utility belt always has a seam ripper.
Posted by: Aquaria
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August 27, 2010 7:47 AM
If PZ felt better I'd ask him to look at Gayfucktard's IP, because that last post sounded eerily like the freakiest lunatic on the loose in Canada.
Posted by: Richard Eis
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August 27, 2010 7:47 AM
Hey Eshe,
You could do a guy covered in pins for acupuncture and "we're playing hunt the meridian".
or the homeopathic shit monster...flushing makes it stronger... or some such.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 7:49 AM
@106
I seriously thought it was your dissertation. Just did my peer review duty. ;-)
OK, I guess I was a little snobbish. Apologies.
Posted by: TrineBM
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August 27, 2010 7:58 AM
Hmmm - and today Flemming Rose, the man who was editor of Jyllandsposten when the Muhammad-cartoons were published, is releasing his book "Tyranniet tavshed" ("The Tyranny of Silence") where all 12 cartoons are printed. Once again. Let the fireworks begin!http://www.information.dk/242911 (yeah - it's in Danish)
Posted by: Andyo
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August 27, 2010 8:03 AM
Heh, now that I've been pointed out the existence of GayHedBri, I can't stop noticing the little bugger. Talk about attention whores.
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 8:05 AM
@110: No offense taken. I should remember where I am when I babble nonsense. :)
Posted by: hyperdeath
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August 27, 2010 8:06 AM
"GayHedBri" pops up in the comments every now and then, making snarky comments containing nothing of substance. Like many of our Dunning Kruger contributors, it's difficult to tell what his actual grievance is. He obviously doesn't like PZ, but lacks the verbal skills to make any kind of coherent point.
He generally attempts to be disparaging and condescending, but merely comes across as childish and weird. His favourite tactic is to call PZ an attention whore (apparently oblivious to the irony). He also had a brief go at being a concern troll in this thread, but completely failed.
I expect to see him posting on The Intersection shortly.
Posted by: KG
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August 27, 2010 8:06 AM
I was going to complain that the past participle of "sew" is "sewn", but apparently "sewed" is OK too :-p
Seriously, assuming you mean "sued", who's going to do it? You think Ratfinger is going to risk turning up in a court in NZ and being questioned about his record of enabling child rape?
Posted by: jay.sweet
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August 27, 2010 8:18 AM
I also immediately recognized the Garbage Pail Kids satire, and it also brought back fond memories for me. :) Is it still popular in New Zealand or something?
Posted by: JB
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August 27, 2010 8:20 AM
#106
Yeah. Mind-numbingly incredible.
Thou shalt not
bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them:explode nuclear wepons in other people's countries forI the LORD thy God am a jealous Godionising radiation from fallout is visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.Probably. Ho hum.
Posted by: charley
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August 27, 2010 8:24 AM
I think they're marketing bigotry to children. Religious fundamentalists could just as well launch a "Science is Garbage" campaign featuring caricatures of immoral scientists. I'm all for mocking religious ideas, but this is just name-calling.
Posted by: hyperdeath
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August 27, 2010 8:31 AM
Aquaria:
Do you mean Day-Vidd May-Buss?
If so, I don't think that GayHedBri is He Who Must Not Be Named. HWMNBN usually capitalises about 50% of his words, rather than just capitalising a single word in a single post. Also, HWMNBN has a standard list of claims and insults, none of which are present in GayHedBri's posts.
GayHedBri may be a simpleton, but he's not that bad.
Posted by: Duckbilled Platypus
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August 27, 2010 8:39 AM
@117: well in fairness there's quite some fallout room in Australia and the country is filled with nasty poisonous things in the first place (although they did get rid of Ken Ham).
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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August 27, 2010 9:04 AM
Duckbilled Platypus @ 82
This just in on the wires:
Early this morning a bearded terrorist suicide goat disguised as a sheep, got past the sheepdogs on a sheep farm in northern New Zealand. The terrorist goat blew himself up killing at least a dozen of the sheep that were gathered around the watering hole at that time... about twenty other sheep were seriously wounded by flying shrapnel.
Authorities are now investigating the backgrounds of at least two of the sheepdogs, it seems they were Australian sheepdogs and had been trained overseas.
It seems the farmer is going to put in electrified fences and will bring in a new team of Border Collies to guard his flock.
Posted by: MikeMa
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August 27, 2010 9:15 AM
Great poster campaign. Go Kiwis.
Would be nice to have those in the US so a mass of loons in lower Manhattan would move on to another target.
NZ is racking up points. LotR, anti-religion posters, really far from Beck, Paloon, Gingrich, Limbaugh and the seemingly endless list of bigots and asswipes - emigration seems more reasonable all the time.
Posted by: nikephorius
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August 27, 2010 9:35 AM
Ratzi is coming to Edinburgh soon. They are going to shut half the roads in town for him. The taxpayer is stumping up for the visit.
Posted by: halfdeaddavid
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August 27, 2010 9:53 AM
Do you not see the inherent difference between an "immoral scientist" and someone who preaches morality being immoral? Besides what are they gonna do point out that Einstein had a mistress? who gives a fuck?
Posted by: Yoav
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August 27, 2010 9:53 AM
Have you been living in a cave for the last 200 years? Fundies have been vilifying science and scientists for centuries and they won't stop if we're nice to them.Posted by: legistech
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August 27, 2010 9:56 AM
Slander (or libel) is a civil offense in most jurisdictions, so it's not likely anyone will go to jail. Unless you're talking about pedophilic priests.
Arguably, "pedo pope" could mean "pope of pedophiles", and not mean that he himself is a pedophile. Also, Ratzinger would need to show it is unquestionably him lampooned in the graphic, and not some other pope, or even a nameless hypothetical pope. If it had been "pedo king" for example, you wouldn't be justified stating it meant the king of England without a lot of evidence.
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD
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August 27, 2010 10:04 AM
Charley, some fundies already accuse atheists and scientists of being as bad or even worse than Hitler, Stalin et al. What do you think, Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed was about. The last thing it was a paean to scientists or atheists. Playing nice hasn't done us any good for the last two thousand years so why do you think it would do any good now. And hell, it can't get much worse in the US than it is now, at least not without going full blown dominionist.
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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August 27, 2010 10:07 AM
If it were one of the atheist organizations behind these posters, I'd be a bit leery. But it's a bunch of skaters, who I think have all the license they need to stir the shit like this. Kudos, and stir on.
"Since people complained about the non-offensive "there's probably is no god.." bus ads (The bus co. refused to run the ads) and being a bunch of old skaters, we thought lets have some fun indulging our own juvenile sense of humor by giving people something to really complain about. "
Good on ya, mate. (Do they say that in New Zealand?)
"What will come out of it? Probably more public hate and denigration against atheists."
Feh, bring it on. I'll just say, "I may be rude from time to time, but at least I'm not aiding and abetting a worldwide pedophile ring."
"So making a silly little poster with Pedo Pope written on it does what exactly?"
Keeps the message out there. Pushes the Overton Window. Erodes the culture of unquestioned respect towards religion. Oh, and sells skateboards.
Posted by: legistech
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August 27, 2010 10:08 AM
I don't entirely agree (deleting your middle sentence, because it's inane -- of course they could).
It would be marketing bigotry to children if it claimed all of the religious are pedophiles, but it isn't -- just the pope (which I point out above may not be a specific individual, but rather a title).
It's true that it's not a developed argument. But it's a graphic -- you're not going to get lengthy text. The "Religion is Garbage" statement isn't supported in the graphic either, but that's not really what you're objecting to, is it?
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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August 27, 2010 10:11 AM
I'm just wondering what the *ahem* fallout would be if it was an atheist/secular organisation as opposed to a bunch of skaters being dicks.
Not that I'm complaining because doing stupid things in public that often involve pain and ridicule is generally what being a skater is about!
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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August 27, 2010 10:16 AM
"And, then have hardly an idea of how they're being laughed and giggled at....."
Oh come off it. We all know your type has no sense of humor.
On a tangentially related note, I feel the need to speak up against ellipsis abuse. Maybe it's because I used to do it all the time, I've gotten sick of every idiot ending their posts with ellipses to confer some vague sense of suspense and gravitas. 95% of the time it's not warranted. Also, an ellipsis is three periods. Three. Not however many you type out before your finger gets tired.
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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August 27, 2010 10:18 AM
I think Tim Minchin sums up the answer to that question quite well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzgTPxcCwJU
That's such a catchy little tune.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 10:26 AM
@KG
That IS one nice thing about this blog. I always learn something about this foreign english language:
"sew" .. needle, thread, etc.
"sue" .. lawyer, court, etc.
Repeat
Posted by: MrJonno
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August 27, 2010 10:49 AM
The problem I have with those posters is 3 of them are attacking the leaders/key figures in the religion, the islamic one isnt really particuarly targetting any muslim but in effect is an attack on all of them.
Calling mohammed a warmongering paedophile would be ok through but overlaps a bit on the pope
Dare anyone to wear one of those in Birmingham UK it would be a toss up if the police got to you before you were lynched
Posted by: charley
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August 27, 2010 10:51 AM
...etc.
Yes, but all of their attacks are lies and cheap shots. They have to take the low road, because it's all they have. We have credibility on our side, and we shouldn't squander it.
It bothers me more because it's targeting kids. They are liable to miss the nuance and view this ad campaign as an invitation to hate religious people in general.
Posted by: Tim
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August 27, 2010 11:05 AM
It wasn't so long ago that any public show of anti-religion sentiment would have put you at physical risk. That has changed because of people like Dawkins, Hitch, PZ, and hundreds of others. We need more "in your face" atheism, not less.
No, we won't change many minds that are firmly made up. But at least their kids will grow up in a world where non-belief is an option.
Posted by: MS
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August 27, 2010 11:19 AM
@133 What's your native language? Is the spelling rational?
I taught English to Spanish speakers for a while. Spanish spelling is almost completely consistent and phonetic, so Spanish speakers have a really hard time with English spelling. Cough, enough, hiccough... all pronounced with the last syllable different, just to name one example out of hundreds. As one student asked me, "Why does the letter e have three different sounds in the word 'eleven?'".
Posted by: SteveN
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August 27, 2010 11:30 AM
Time (#136) wrote:
Even better, open satire and ridicule may mean that kids grow up in a world where belief is considered to be old-fashioned, weird and most importantly, uncool.
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD
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August 27, 2010 11:31 AM
Charley , credibility means didly squat if they are trampling all over you while you are keeping your credibility intact. Remember, even the very existence of atheists is seen by far too many of the deluded as an attack on beliefs. Look at the fuss over something as innocuous as the bus ad campaign. Accomodation hasn't worked so far, only changing the overton window has any real effect, which is mainly due to the noisy and dickish, by xian definition, atheists.
Note: I could be swayed by your argument about the muslim being portrayed as a suicide bomber. Not so much for the offence it would cause, as I don't really give a shit about such offence. But as you say, there is far too much islamphobia around and in some places, like parts of the US and Europe, it is actually dangerous. Ironically, not just a danger to individual muslims, but also to us for the impression it gives to muslim countries and makes it easy to portray us as crusaders and hence a good tool for recruitment.
Though those who actually want to physically attack muslims, as with the recent incident with the taxi driver in NY, wouldn't need the excuse of the t-shirt firing them up. But I take your point there and I would have no problem if they found an equally offensive t-shirt that didn't make it appear that all muslims are terrorist suicide bombers.
Posted by: NeuroMarkus
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August 27, 2010 11:31 AM
@ the general Pharyngulaudience,
I'm more of a lurker than anything else, so forgive if I'm not quite as well spoken as cuttlefish. ;)
I've followed the Catholic Debacle for quite a while, but I'm still hesitant to draw direct links between the pope and the cover-ups. I've had conversations with several Catholics and they provide an interesting counter-point to most of the BBC documentaries, which to me now seem not quite as damning as they are rash or preconceived.
So the question is: could anyone provide me with a pretty black-n-white source that links the two? I'm not trying to be a Poe or pro-Catholic here (I'm solidly atheist and skirting the lines of antitheism), I just want to make sure I've got good sources and facts before I come to any conclusions and begin burning Catholic flags (har har).
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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August 27, 2010 11:37 AM
So after after having three different sounds in'eleven' it can be have four different sounds and also be completely silent in 'eleventee one'
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 11:45 AM
@137
Swedish. Vikings etc. It is basically a germanic language, but not very close to german (with a very logical spelling).
We have our share of weird spellings and different sounds for the same letter, but not as bad as in english. Plus quite a distinctive singsong-sound (right?) which actually is important to get at least approximately right, and is a hard part for foreigners.
Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies!
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August 27, 2010 11:50 AM
Over the top? Yes.
Hilarious? Hell Yes.
@140
[I]skirting the lines of antitheism[/I]
Am I correct in understanding that it's a line that god is evil?
Won't that stance be fairly depressing, since it just mean that everyone is boned.
Posted by: hyperdeath
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August 27, 2010 12:22 PM
I agree that detailed condemnations of Ratzinger are thin on the ground. However, Geoffrey Robertson QC, the human rights lawyer who hopes to bring Ratzinger to trial, is about to publish a book outlining the prosecution case.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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August 27, 2010 12:30 PM
@133
"sew" .. needle, thread, etc.
"sue" .. lawyer, court, etc.
Repeat
Although if you're English, 'sew' is pronounced the same as 'so' (hard o, silent w), and 'Sue' is pronounce more like 'sew' then it lets on.
Of course you then have 'sow crops' (sow meaning plant, hard o so pronounced same as 'sew'/'so') and a female pig (a 'sow') with an elongated o that comes out sounding more like 'sou'.
English doesn't make sense. I've got a lot of friends who're from Slavic countries where the written language is phonetic. We have a lot of fun conversations about pronunciation & sentence construction but it can be problematic!!
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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August 27, 2010 12:33 PM
Blockquote cleanup required on isle 145. :-/
Posted by: NeuroMarkus
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August 27, 2010 12:43 PM
@143
No, antitheism just means I'm really, really against religion. :) E.g., Cristopher Hitchens, maybe Stephen Fry, Dawkins.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawk8nuEGr2AboPw3B5JlVHLruh87cSf2gi4
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August 27, 2010 12:55 PM
I was thinking about the TickTock Muhammad poster. Would it make sense to have one about Islam which somehow highlights how women are trapped under veils and burkas or hijabs or whatever they're called?
My thought is that of course there are Islamist suicide bombers who find their justification in their Bronze Age book. There are Christianist murders who do the same thing. But the number of bombers in either case is fairly small, relative to the number of
sheepbelievers. However, nearly ALL Muslims (so far as I know) practice some form of "cover up the wimminfolk so teh mens don't get tempted to rape them just by looking at the pretty curves."Wouldn't more Muslims identify with the veiling/burkaing thing, and thereby be offended? Wouldn't more people identify "ordinary" Muslims with burkas? "Pedo Pope" and "Holey Christ" offend pretty much every Christian between them, but I think most Jebus-lovin' folk are not into bombing abortion clinics (just the nutjobs).
I heartily approve of the entire endeavor. I'm just wondering if a different image would also be effective -- not because TickTock is offensive, but because another image would also offend, and if anything offend more.
--Lauren Ipsum
Posted by: NeuroMarkus
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August 27, 2010 12:57 PM
@144
Thanks for the link, and sorry for the double-post spam, I simply didn't see that post! Will check out the link.
Posted by: feralboy12
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August 27, 2010 1:15 PM
The Garbage Pails Kids takeoff is cute, but I'd be more impressed with something done in the style of Odder Odd Rods.
Posted by: Birger Johansson
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August 27, 2010 1:24 PM
MrJonno @ 134
"Dare anyone to wear one of those in Birmingham UK it would be a toss up if the police got to you before you were lynched"
Print those messages on a blimp, and fly it across a stadium full of believers?
"I'm just wondering if a different image would also be effective" I have trouble coming up with an image that would be properly offensive. You need an artist for that, an artist familiar with the culture.
Posted by: MS
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August 27, 2010 2:22 PM
@142. Years ago I was backpacking through Europe and for a day or two I was hanging out with a couple of Swedes (in Greece). Naturally they spoke excellent English. We got to talking about languages and the way they sound. They said that The Muppet Show was very popular in Sweden, but they wondered if the Swedish Chef character was really how Swedish sounds to English-speaking ears. I had to say it was, particularly that sing-song aspect you mention. I'm assuming Swedish isn't tonal, like Chinese, but is the contour of the speech meaningful in some way? Or does it just sound funny if you don't get it right?
Mexican Spanish is a bit sing-songy, but Spanish Spanish absolutely isn't. Argentine Spanish sounds like Italian. I have to work to adjust for that, depending on where I'm traveling.
Posted by: DownHouse
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August 27, 2010 2:32 PM
Awesome! The Bouncing Souls and Hot Water Music are touring NZ!
That and Garbage Pail Kids + Blasphemy = Win.
Posted by: legistech
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August 27, 2010 2:38 PM
Googler at #148
I always liked this one as sort of a representation of the treatment of women v. men in Islam.
Or This one
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 2:50 PM
Well...apparently Einstein had a fuck or two to give, otherwise his mistress would have lost interest.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnG39uMFt69kwCKZ8DoxtmMCvmzr5chx94
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August 27, 2010 3:28 PM
@152
Spontaneously, I would not say that the singsong has any particular meaning. Yet I know it has in a way. My wife is an english speaking immigrant, and it has happened that I just could not understand the swedish sentense she was trying to say, not even after several attempts. So we speak english, but sometimes addresses and such just have to be said in swedish.
No, swedish is not tonal, but the singsong (which I guess is the result of somewhat odd and apparently random rules for intonation and emphasis of words and sentenses) are still important. I guess the effekt is a little like when you hear your own phone number, but with the digits grouped 3 by 3 instead of 2 by 2 or what ever you are used to. Confusing.
To us norwegian, also a scandinavian language, sounds like singsong.
Yeah, the muppet show with Kermit etc was great.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 27, 2010 3:48 PM
charley #135
Does it bother you that Christians and Muslims target kids for their propaganda?
Posted by: gooseofserenity
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August 27, 2010 4:09 PM
So, immediately after I linked this to my girlfriend, she declared her desire for a Tick-tock Muhammad alarm clock.
Genius idea.
Posted by: rick.desper
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August 27, 2010 4:23 PM
I have to disagree with those people who argue that rudeness never accomplishes anything. Rudeness is obviously a useful method to get people to think about something they may not have considered previously. It can jar a person from their usual paths of thought.
Not that it always works successfully. But really, arguing that it never accomplishes anything is fucking stupid.
(He he)
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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August 27, 2010 4:33 PM
To the people who think this and being rude/a dick hurts the cause because it gives theists ammunition against us. HOW? They've already thrown everything short of violence at us already? We're at the point where freedom means we got nothing left to loose here. What are they going to do, slander us and call us nihlist racists a couple more times a week? Blame us for MORE of all the world's problems?
Posted by: Ch'tturgha
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August 27, 2010 4:43 PM
I've seen (in books written by others, not just me) the four period ellipsis when it is meant to end the sentence. I'll sometimes use this when I'm writing, but it's hard to consider a case where it is necessary.
Moving on to the fun stuff...
This reminds me of something I saw some time ago. It was a dartboard, featuring Jesus (Christ, of crucifixion fame) with his palms toward the viewer. The board had two bull's eyes, one in the middle of each palm, and featured Jesus saying "My Father gave you a sense of humor. Use it or lose it. LOL!" As far as I know, it is no longer available (due to limited production, not because somebody got mad about it), but I still wish I'd gotten one every time I remember it.
As for this image, I'm kinda meh about it. Maybe it's because I wasn't into the whole Garbage Pail Kids thing. Regardless, I'm glad there are people willing to produce it, especially given its offensive nature.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 4:52 PM
.....and NEVER to be taken seriously....
exactly.
We never take you seriously.
bye.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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August 27, 2010 5:01 PM
Yup, that's going to make Bill Donohue's head explode. It will also doubtless lead to a chorus of whining from Catholics and theists in general about how hateful and dickish atheists are.
Still, if anyone is deluded enough to think that posters like this are even remotely offensive when compared to the global paedophile ring that is the Catholic church (not to mention the world's foremost promoter of over-population and venerial disease transmission that also does a fine line in racism, misogyny and homophobia), then there is a little Tim Minchin song that I think they need to hear...
Posted by: legistech
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August 27, 2010 5:01 PM
Really, what bothers me most about it is the conflation with religion being garbage with pedophilia.
Religion would be garbage (as in useless and untrue) even without pedophilia. The argument, "The pope's a pedo, so god doesn't exist" is pure ad hominem even if the pope is hiring rent boys nightly.
Though as I mentioned earlier, it's a graphic, not a thought-out argument. So I give it some slack for that.
Posted by: Ch'tturgha
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August 27, 2010 5:09 PM
I think the paedophilia is strong support for "religion is garbage", especially when you consider it to indicate the organization behind the religion is so morally/ethically bankrupt. This doesn't say "The pope's a pedo, so god doesn't exist", this says, "The major, 'infallible' figure guiding this religion is a pedo; how can this happen WITHOUT the support of so many and how can that not indicate the rot inherent within its structure?"
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 5:13 PM
"Religion is garbage" is better than "people who believe in religion are garbage". But you also say that Papa Ratzi is a pedo, which is more problematic.. What if you are sewed?
why, then he'd be in stitches.
Posted by: Buffybot
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August 27, 2010 5:15 PM
So. Much. Handwringing.
This is New Zealand - where the favoured way to clutch pearls is anally.
Posted by: Ch'tturgha
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August 27, 2010 5:17 PM
@ #167:
So far, I'd have to say you've won the thread.
Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold
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August 27, 2010 5:30 PM
True, but the fact the pope was involved in the cover-up of serious crimes, and put pressure on Bishops not to report those accused of sexual abusing children to the authorities does seriously undermine claims that religion offers any kind of moral authority.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 27, 2010 7:42 PM
Buffybot #167: I loved that scene in 300: "THIS. IS. NEW. ZEALAND!!!" I must have missed the bit about anal bead clutching in the crowd noise.
And speaking of the pearl clutchers and the Pedo Pope poster:
As for the Pope not being culpable of any crime, let me quote some Ozzy Osbourne from the other night when he was on the Graham Norton show: "Wot a load of bollocks!"
I think everyone here is capable of using the interwebz so I won't bother digging up the articles, but the letters where Pope Fritz wrote to his swallowers about anyone letting the cat out of the bag regarding Pedo Priests would be EXCOMMUNICATED, no mention whatsoever about the rapists immediately being turned over to authorities, is so head-shakingly, mouth-gapingly evil and horrific he may as well be a pederast himself. And let me remind everyone once again exactly what is going on in those cases. Little boys are being anally raped by adult men. Little boys. Imagine your dad or brother or uncle or best friend as a little boy and being bent over and done by one of these monsters. Don't fucking dare try to let Pope Fritz off the hook. He knew what was going on and played 'hide the pedo' instead of making sure these unspeakably evil assholes went to jail. That the word 'holy' is appended to anything to do with the Catholic whoreden is a mockery of the etymology of the word and the English language altogether. No benevolent higher power exists but if they did they certainly would have had to come out of 'meatspace lurk mode' to kick ass and take names over this debacle of moral insouciance.
Oops, was I being a dick? GOOD!
Posted by: charley
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August 27, 2010 7:50 PM
Yes, that bothers me too, but I guess we disagree over whether that fact justifies encouraging kids to hate religious people.
Posted by: j-brisby
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August 27, 2010 9:13 PM
It ain't no Tim Minchin. It's stupid, and childish, it shows we're willing to sink lower than the people we're fighting, and I'm embarrassed by it.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 27, 2010 9:15 PM
well, you should be embarrassed.
...but not for the reasons you mention.
recommend you read notes on "pearl clutching".
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 27, 2010 9:19 PM
Ohs Noes, the pearl clutcher is back? *clutches pearls, sending them scattering around, and the Pullet Patrol™ thinks they are tasty treats*
Posted by: j-brisby
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August 27, 2010 9:32 PM
If you thought I was wrong, you'd call me wrong.
Posted by: DaveDodo007
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August 27, 2010 10:27 PM
j-brisby #172.
Religion is rubbish and is being called out on it, give it a rest will you.
Posted by: charley
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August 27, 2010 11:12 PM
Free market research FWIW: I just showed the shirts to my high school son who makes no secret of his atheism at school. He thought they were pretty funny, but wouldn't wear them (maybe Brainwashin' Brian, definitely not Pedo Pope or Tic Toc M.) Too in your face, too awkward with religious friends and probably in violation of the "no offensive T-shirt" dress code.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 28, 2010 12:47 AM
If you thought I was wrong, you'd call me wrong.
we did. you're just too oblivious to notice.
Posted by: Marella
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August 28, 2010 1:04 AM
So you think four t-shirts with pictures on them is worse than lying to millions of people and taking their money for thousands of years? Worse than depriving women of their civil rights? Worse than raping children? Worse than forbidding the use of condoms to fight disease and lying about their effectiveness?
See the Tim Minchin song for an opinion on your priorities motherfucker. You are WRONG.
Posted by: Andreas Johansson
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August 28, 2010 3:40 AM
Not tonal like Chinese, were (almost) every syllable carries a tone that radically alters meaning, but there are pairs of words that differ only in tonal contour. (Standard example: anden "the spirit" v. anden "the duck". No, the tone isn't indicated in writing in any way.)
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 2:24 PM
hey bitches!
Fact: only homos rape little boys. So all of Godless twits agree that homosexuality is wrong? ha ha ha....Can any of you Godless twits say that homosexuality is wrong? No. Your pretended outrage is bullshit. Hey what moral code do Godless twits follow? Do you Godless twits even have a moral code? ta ta...
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 2:47 PM
oh yeah since many of you hate the Pope and hate the Catholic faith I gotta ask again who here wants to kill the Pope? Any of you Godless twits care to make death threats against the Pope? PZ Meyers do you want to chime in? It is your blog and all, so please tell us just how much you hate the Pope. Where is all your hatred for God leading everyone to? Any action? or is it just all talk blah.. blah..
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 3:11 PM
@ 170 McCthulhu, Vendor of the Pudding said
oohhh.... So you McCthulhu, Vendor of the Pudding are in favor of locking up homosexuals! Got that? Jail the homos! I agree ha ha ha... finally someone here on this blog thinks that homsexuality is a crime that deserves a jail sentence! ha ha oopps.. better rethink that one McCthulhu, Vendor of the Pudding or your Godless "friends" here won't like you!
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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August 28, 2010 3:35 PM
dvx515;
Your opening words are misogynistic? I see you are going to be one of those trolls.
Wrong. Peadophilia and homosexuality are entirely different. Homosexuals are attracted to adults of the same gender as themselves. Paedophiles may abuse children of the same gender as themselves or a different gender (and yes, there are female paedophiles). Like rape, paedophilia is not really about sex. It is about power. These people have a sickness that causes them to crave dominion over the vulnerable. It would only be compared to any form of consensual sexuality between adults by the most cynical and ignorant of people.
I do not find paedophilia or homophobia a source of hilarity. I find it odd that you seem to.
Well, I cannot speak for all 'Godless twits' (the preferred term is atheists, by the way. I know some people find it hard to spell, but do try to keep up), but I would say no, we cannot say homosexuality is wrong because, and payt attention now, it is not wrong, you vile, inadequate little homophobic bigot.
*sigh* Our 'outrage' is not directed at homosexuals. Some of us are homosexuals. Our ire is directed at the harm caused by pernicious Bronze Age fantasies that people like you cleave to and call religion. We are also not overly enamoured of bile spewing, homophobic morons either...
It is called 'Humanism'. I know, another polysyllabic word. Do try to look it up. It is just possible you might learn something. Given your posts, that you are capable of learning anything is doubtful, but far be it from me to give up entirely on a fellow human being.
One can oppose the Catholic Church and the Papacy without lowering oneself to violence or death threats. I think that the pope should be prosecuted for his role in covering up clerical child abuse, but that is hardly the same thing as advocating assassination.
Death threats are not issued by rational people capable of making a cogent argument. It is more the speed of fundamentalist religious fanatics and aspiring terrorists.
Why do trolls like you always mispell PZ's name? It is spelled Myers.
Yes, this is PZ's blog. That means that he is not answerable to the likes of drive by trolls like you. In any case, given the Pope's track record of out and out evil, a degree of antipathy toward the man is entirely justified.
We do not 'hate god' becuase we do not believe that your laughable fantasy of a god exists at all, and it is difficult to hate that which is non-existant. We certainly do despise the evils done under the aegis of religion, but that is hardly the same thing.
Not everyone indulges in fantasies of violence. The civilised members of society seek to affect social change through reasoned discourse, not that I would expect someone like you to understand the distinction.
If you are capable of googling Humanism, then perhaps you will be able to grasp the reasoning behind our aversion to violence.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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August 28, 2010 3:50 PM
Nope. Homosexuality and pedophelia isn't the same thing.
Also, no. The only reason you think homosexuality is wrong is due to outdated dogma.
You lose, try again.
Posted by: Dania
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August 28, 2010 4:00 PM
Look, fuckwit, not only is your premise wrong (that only homosexuals abuse "little boys"), but your conclusion wouldn't follow anyway. Even if only homosexuals abused "little boys", that wouldn't necessarily mean that all homosexuals abuse "little boys".
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 28, 2010 4:02 PM
@dxv515,
Do you know any children? They aren't adults. Period. To even equate a child with a sex is a little unfair because they are still on the way to becoming a boy or a girl. This is what pedophiles like, destroying someone who isn't even finished becoming who they should have been.
How can you possibly compare that to two adults engaging in a celebration of each other?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau
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August 28, 2010 4:04 PM
What's up? You make bitch sound like a bad thing. What do you mean by that? Bitch. Bitch.
Nope. A lot of pedophiles are indiscriminate about the sex of the victim. And besides, who rapes little girls? Because little girls are getting raped too, you know. Although since you started out with bitches like you think bitches are a bad thing I'm guessing you think little girls don't amount to shit.
Nope. Homosexuality is great! It's child rape that's bad.
I'm not outraged.
I have a very stringent one. Something you may not have considered is that we don't share a single moral code because we're not so much unified by a single entity aimed at forcing a certain lifestyle on us.
Food for thought.
No one probably. I certainly don't. I don't wish any harm to the Pope. I just want his office divested of power and for him to be held liable for crimes just like any citizen.
No. Not at all. You went from 0 to death threats pretty quickly there. Are you feeling ok?
Yep. Talk is wonderful. Talk is freedom in action. Extremist action is for religious psychos.
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 4:13 PM
@ Gregory Greenwood you wrote
you're joking... anal rape is a sex act... I do believe that those who rape little boys go to jail because they have sex with little boys, not because they have "power" over little boys. you're twisted and it shows.
you truly are a disgusting person. according to your reasoning if the age of consent was lowered to 9 years old, you would have no problem with a man having anal sex with a little boy. jerk!
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 28, 2010 4:20 PM
@dxv515,
You are so stupid, you're not even wrong. Words of advice. Find a clue. The peer reviewed scientific literature is a good place to start. Any religious book or religious writing, where you picked up your ignorant garbage, is the wrong place to look.
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 4:21 PM
@188 bitches is a reference to one of Dante's cantos. But you are not allowed to read Dante becuase he was a Roman Catholic who loved the Roman Catholic Faith.
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 28, 2010 4:28 PM
Are you really that dense that you can't tell how stupid this argument is? The reason the age of consent is not nine years old is because a nine year old is still a child. They are still forming and in no way are they ready to engage in a sex act with an adult. That goes for any combination of sexes. It's rape because there is no enthusiastic consent, a nine year old doesn't even understand what that means which is why the age of consent isn't that low. Get back under the bridge or the horns are coming out.Posted by: Dania
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August 28, 2010 4:30 PM
Oh, really? Even forgetting for a moment that your hypothetical is just stupid, I have to assume that you don't see any problem with rape as long as the victim is above the age of consent (and of the opposite sex)?
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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August 28, 2010 4:36 PM
Boring troll doesn't understand the concept of consent.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 28, 2010 4:36 PM
Mr. So Stooopid, I'm not even wrong, is proving himself to be stupid. But then, when one listens to religion instead of the facts of science, that is bound to happen. Science has built in correction methods. Religion doesn't. Which is why it, and babble, which can't be corrected for new evidence, is now wrong, wrong, wrong.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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August 28, 2010 4:38 PM
Good grief you're a moron. Being adult isn't about some arbitrary age, it's about being mature enough to give consent. The arbitrary age is assigned because that's how laws work.
Consent is the issue dumbass.
Posted by: consciousness razor
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August 28, 2010 4:39 PM
dxv515: Fuck you!
(That's a reference to The Pope Song.)
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 28, 2010 4:47 PM
Dante's Canto XIII. Behind them the wood was full of black bitches, ravenous and running like greyhounds that have been unleashed. On him that had squatted they set their teeth and tore him to pieces, bit by bit, then carried off his woeful limbs.
So, you're admitting defeat here? How amusing.
I've read Dante Alighieri, several times. I'd bet I not only understand it better than you, I've gotten more out of it too.
Go forth onto the internet and play, šičela uze. You're not qualified to play here.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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August 28, 2010 4:52 PM
dxv515 @ 189;
You really are not one for reading comprehension, are you? I was observing that the motivation behind paedophilia is a desire fr power over the vulnerable in society, as expressed by sexual abuse. The crime is a sex-crime, yes, but the context does matter. The sex act is only criminal because it is being performed on a child who by definition is incapable of providing consent to that act.
The self same act performed between two or more consenting adults, of whatever combination of genders and sexual orientations, would not be criminal because the parties involved are all adults who are both capable of giving consent and have given that consent.
The fact that you find a standard expression of the idea of consent as a necessary element of non-abusive sex 'twisted' is strange to say the least.
Ok, moron, actually listen to what I am saying this time. At no point did I say that lowering the legal age of consent to nine would somehow render child rape an acceptable practice.
Whatever an ill advised law may say, a child is fundamentally incapable of providing informed consent and would certainly be harmed by any sexual encounter with an adult.
However, this is in no way comparable to sexual congress between two or more consenting adults, whatever their respective genders may be. The critical point being that adults can give informed consent to a sexual encounter, whether a cromagon bigot like you is made uncomfortable by the consensual sex they engage in or not.
I also notice that you make no reference to the sexual abuse of girls, fixating on that of boys instead, Taking a leaf out of your approach to debate, I will therefore assume (without any actual evidence, naturally) that you are in favour of adults having sex with nine year old children, just so long as the children in querstion have XX chromosomes.
You are a sick, twisted, disgusting jerk etc etc...
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 28, 2010 5:01 PM
dxv515
not this assclown again?
an idiot pretending to be a poe, but really just trolling?
my first vote to get the banhammer now that PZ is out of the hospital.
Posted by: Eshe
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August 28, 2010 5:04 PM
Opps http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10669601
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 5:05 PM
@ Ol'Greg-OM
Sin starts with evil thoughts, then moves one to words, then moves one to deed. since many of you already have committed sins against the person of the Pope in evil thoughts & evil words, the next step is evil deeds. get a clue!
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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August 28, 2010 5:07 PM
Hi fuckface! You better get your jollies while you can, cuz the regulars are gonna rip your shit up six ways from Sunday, then PZ will likely ban your ass.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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August 28, 2010 5:16 PM
What you claim is evil, I claim as good.
You excuse child rapists, I condemn them.
Which good is really good?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 28, 2010 5:20 PM
I bet that this is the goal of the so stupid, not even wrong fool, but PZ will make sure he knows he hit a buzzsaw, with him and his inane loser philosophy as the sawdust first. So far, a blizzard of dust, and Pharyngula and science standing firm...Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 5:20 PM
@Caine, Fleur du mal
Oh you bet I mean defeat. Read it closer with the eyes of the catholic faith that you reject. It is a reference to the killing of the Pope. And if you really understand it better than me then please visit my blog & teach me a thing or two! RomanCatholicImperialist
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 28, 2010 5:25 PM
Read it closer with the eyes of the catholic faith that you reject.
translation:
"Project my personal insanity onto it, and THEN you'll see."
fuck you and fuck your crap blog.
get lost, loser.
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 28, 2010 5:25 PM
Well none of us has committed sins of thought against the person of the pope. He is the one protecting criminals instead of victims.
We do think that he should be tried like any other criminal obstructionist and that the power he wields through the position of the pope should be dissolved.
Where in that do you get evil thoughts and words?
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 5:26 PM
@Josh, Official SpokesGay, HKFGH
Hey i just went to confession & I'm in a state of Grace. Is this a death threat against me on the internet? I will be attending Latin Mass Sunday Morning....ha ha ha
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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August 28, 2010 5:28 PM
What an idiot.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 28, 2010 5:29 PM
Only a fucked in the head (or maybe ass) delusional fool would think that. Loser.Along with all the othervictimssheeple who are delusional and stoopid fools, supporting an institution without a moral basis.Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake
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August 28, 2010 5:31 PM
All this hooplah, for the sake of some lame-ass blog-prostitution? Me disappointed.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 28, 2010 5:31 PM
šičela uze:
Good. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, now.
Listen, Cupcake, your church is a corrupt criminal organization, it has been from the outset and it still is now. If defending murderous rapists is your bag, fine. Just don't try and preach it here, it won't fly. I'll leave you with a classic, šičela uze:
Take your screed and go forth and preach! The internet awaits your outrage, Cupcake.
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 5:33 PM
@ Rev. BigDumbChimp
really?? so if a nine year old boy consents to your advances, then it is ok for you to rape him? ha ha ha haPosted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 28, 2010 5:34 PM
Caine, is this troll a cupcake, or a mini-cupcake. I think the latter.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 28, 2010 5:34 PM
Forbidden Snowflake:
You and me both. I did laugh though, to see it was a pathetic blogwhore at the end. Tsk.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 28, 2010 5:36 PM
The troll does get his jollies dreaming about death threats.
Posted by: dxv515
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August 28, 2010 5:38 PM
oh yeah one more thing before I go. I know none of you want prayers. So I will curse the lot of you instead. sweet dreams..... ha ha ha...
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 28, 2010 5:39 PM
Nerd of Redhead, OM:
Oh, given the use of slurs and the descent into pathetic blogwhoring, I concur with you, it's a mini-cupcake. A mini-cupcake attempting to puff itself up and scream Bite Me! with squeaky, desperate defiance.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 28, 2010 5:40 PM
Now that's a meaningless threat.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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August 28, 2010 5:40 PM
Of course they do, they're always making up fictional persecution after all.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 28, 2010 5:43 PM
šičela uze:
ečhá. As if that meant anything. You've gone right into downright boring now.
Posted by: consciousness razor
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August 28, 2010 5:44 PM
Fine, yes, move along. Go back to the fucking 13th century where you belong. What a stupid fuck.
--mrt
Posted by: Dania
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August 28, 2010 5:45 PM
What a boring troll. Get lost already, idiot. And don't come back.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 28, 2010 5:47 PM
I see the mini-cupcake is working on micro-cupcake status. Curses? What a loser. Believes in imaginary deities and bullshit theology. Lights on, nobody home. Boring, boring, idjit troll.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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August 28, 2010 5:51 PM
You get stupider by the comment.
You obviously have no concept of what consent entails, especially with children.
Children are unable to give informed consent to sex. And when the older person is in a position of power of over the child, like a priest for example, it only exacerbates the issue.
What a fucking moron you are.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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August 28, 2010 5:52 PM
So its a sorcerer-troll threatening us with magic incantations?
Oh teh noes! We will all doubtless be turned into frogs anytime now...
Waiting...
Still waiting...
Ho-hum...
Yup, it seems like the troll is as impotent as its fictional god.
Wait, its blog is entitled RomanCatholicImperialist?
This person just has to be a (rather stupid and annoying) Poe.
I mean, no one would actually have a serious blog called that, it is a dominionist stereotype. You would have to be an absolute idio-...
Oh. Right. My mistake.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 28, 2010 5:54 PM
now if he had threatened to curse us sideways, with a rusty knife...
Posted by: consciousness razor
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August 28, 2010 5:54 PM
I find that totally ... plausible. /channeling Jon Stewart
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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August 28, 2010 5:55 PM
You still don't get it do you? That nine year old isn't of the age of consent because they don't understand the concept well enough to give consent. Again, I ask, do you know any children?Oh, and I am pretty sure that it is a sin to take your lord's name in vain, which incidentally is what you are doing when you say you are cursing us.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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August 28, 2010 5:57 PM
Nerd of Redhead, OM:
You're not kidding. Can't even sharpen a fang tip on the worthless Tajuska oyumnimni.
Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake
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August 28, 2010 6:03 PM
Praying for someone, cursing them or having a fap while thinking about them all produce the same result: a warm fuzzy feeling for you and nothing for the other person, unless you go out of your way to tell them about it, which can be a form of harassment, but usually is just pathetic.Yep, I think I have this analogy nailed down to a T, much like some guy in a myth was.
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD
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August 28, 2010 6:51 PM
Well I am glad he decided to curse us rather than to pray for us. After all, the research into praying for the recovery of heart-op patients showed that those prayed for did worse than those not prayed for. Perhaps the research should have included a control group being cursed.
Posted by: Crewvy
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August 29, 2010 1:45 AM
A mild reaction to the posters,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10669601
A rather feeble attempt to drum up outrage.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 29, 2010 2:35 AM
A rather feeble attempt to drum up outrage.
note the catlicks are the only ones up in arms.
even the Destiny dunderheads are yawning.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 29, 2010 2:55 AM
I love it when some asshole shows up and basically proves what you already guessed at with some bullshit attempt to claim that 2+2=53. Another empty headed fuckhole Christian whose only ammunition against homosexuals is to fabricate charges against them, and then end their fuckface posting with LOLs. Smirking arrogance, the true sign of a twelve-year-old with the reality perception of a plastic dildo.
Posted by: Franklin Percival
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August 29, 2010 3:26 AM
Why didn't they have the balls to show a veiled woman fucking a pig?
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 29, 2010 3:28 AM
Why didn't they have the balls to show a veiled woman fucking a pig?
medication:
you forgot yours.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 29, 2010 5:33 AM
Is that one of those motivational posters?
Posted by: xomenx
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August 29, 2010 10:19 AM
When the message,"You can be good without god" is interpreted with as much hostility as the Pedo-Pope reference, then there really is no reason to appeal to a more positive message. They have already accepted a standard of taking hostility away from a message based on nothing more then the fact that it says the opposite of what they want to claim.
Posted by: Random Mutant
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August 29, 2010 6:02 PM
@ Duckbilled Platypus #82
Just remember that NZ has been the target of state-sponsored terrorism in the past: The French bombed the Rainbow Warrior with the loss of one life in 1985.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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August 29, 2010 6:50 PM
The French bombed the Rainbow Warrior with the loss of one life in 1985.
for those that like detective novels, a fun fictional read on that timein NZ:
Guerilla Season, by Paul Thomas.
Posted by: Cobolt
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August 29, 2010 8:02 PM
Why do you dunderheads give any of your time to the likes of dxv515.
this cretin is like a god himself, he needs to be listened to and answered in order to exist.
let the fucker die in a pile of screaming frustration as no one takes any notice.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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August 30, 2010 4:03 AM
Cobolt: I have no idea who you're talking about.
Posted by: dxv515
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September 2, 2010 11:39 PM
Hey bitches!
@ #220 #222 #223 #224 #225 #227
According to WSJ James Lee's ideological motive is undoubted.... I remembered some of you at Sunday morning Latin Mass & three days later we see that a Godless twit made the news! ha ha ha ha ha...... more to come....sweet dreams
Posted by: tatsie
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September 9, 2010 2:03 AM
http://eshestreetwear.bigcartel.com/category/posters
you can buy the posters now as good quality prints