…and this is a 
A gunman with an explosive device is holding hostages at the Discovery Channel building until they give him what he wants. What does he want? Well, he's nuts, and his page of demands is loading very slowly, so here's what I was able to extract:
The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:
1. The Discovery Channel and it's affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn's "My Ishmael" pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other's inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!
2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.
3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!
4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn't, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??
5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)
6. Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don't build more housing pollution which destroys the environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!
7. Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race. Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people's brains until they get it!!
8. Saving the Planet means saving what's left of the non-human Wildlife by decreasing the Human population. That means stopping the human race from breeding any more disgusting human babies! You're the media, you can reach enough people. It's your resposibility because you reach so many minds!!!
9. Develop shows that will correct and dismantle the dangerous US world economy. Find solutions for their disasterous Ponzi-Casino economy before they take the world to another nuclear war.
10. Stop all shows glorifying human birthing on all your channels and on TLC. Stop Future Weapons shows or replace the dialogue condemning the people behind these developments so that the shows become exposes rather than advertisements of Arms sales and development!
11. You're also going to find solutions for unemployment and housing. All these unemployed people makes me think the US is headed toward more war.
Humans are the most destructive, filthy, pollutive creatures around and are wrecking what's left of the planet with their false morals and breeding culture.
For every human born, ACRES of wildlife forests must be turned into farmland in order to feed that new addition over the course of 60 to 100 YEARS of that new human's lifespan! THIS IS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FOREST CREATURES!!!! All human procreation and farming must cease!
It is the responsiblity of everyone to preserve the planet they live on by not breeding any more children who will continue their filthy practices. Children represent FUTURE catastrophic pollution whereas their parents are current pollution. NO MORE BABIES! Population growth is a real crisis. Even one child born in the US will use 30 to a thousand times more resources than a Third World child. It's like a couple are having 30 babies even though it's just one! If the US goes in this direction maybe other countries will too!
Also, war must be halted. Not because it's morally wrong, but because of the catastrophic environmental damage modern weapons cause to other creatures. FIND SOLUTIONS JUST LIKE THE BOOK SAYS! Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!
The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans.
Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.
The humans? The planet does not need humans.
You MUST KNOW the human population is behind all the pollution and problems in the world, and YET you encourage the exact opposite instead of discouraging human growth and procreation. Surely you MUST ALREADY KNOW this!
I want Discovery Communications to broadcast on their channels to the world their new program lineup and I want proof they are doing so. I want the new shows started by asking the public for inventive solution ideas to save the planet and the remaining wildlife on it.
These are the demands and sayings of Lee.
So, basically, he wants the Discovery Channel to yell loudly at people to fix human civilization until they correct all of the world's environmental problems, and he wants everyone to stop having babies and eating food from farms.
I don't think that threatening television personnel with death and asking them to scream as crazily as he does is going to help. Let's just hope that this can be resolved without anyone getting hurt…and by "resolved", I mean get James Lee into a mental hospital.
Just the fact that he thinks the channel of "American Loggers," "Deadliest Catch," "Dirty Jobs," "Ghost Lab," "Swamp Loggers," "Pitchmen" and "Shark Week" will be his allies in his crusade to end the blight of humanity suggests there is something wrong in his head.
Comments
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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September 1, 2010 3:19 PM
Dang, I was hoping he'd demand some science programs from the Discovery channel.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: stompsfrogs
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September 1, 2010 3:21 PM
and, of course, the Squirrels.
o_O
Posted by: Akira MacKenzie
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September 1, 2010 3:21 PM
Oh bloody Hell! If the nut quoted is the same as the one in the Discovery Channel offices, this moron just handed the right-wing years worth of propaganda to hamstring any efforts to deal with environmental issues.
Posted by: jsanner2
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September 1, 2010 3:23 PM
Can't wait to hear the usual religious crowd start crowing about this being another example of "evilutionist thinking in action."
Posted by: Steve LaBonne
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September 1, 2010 3:24 PM
Sounds like Unabomber 2.0.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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September 1, 2010 3:25 PM
Do we know it's not Nisbet?
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 3:28 PM
What the fuck?
Man, I went through a Daniel Quinn phase about a decade ago, but I stopped at yelling at people.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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September 1, 2010 3:28 PM
Does this mean the segments of Mythbusters where Kari is pregnant will have to be dropped from reruns?
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/39uAIEw4jewlLqDu5aGsvROVw8_Vh_A-#1b2fc
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September 1, 2010 3:28 PM
Hey don't know Deadliest Catch! Discovery Channel is awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at_f98qOGY0&feature=fvw
Posted by: Sepia
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September 1, 2010 3:30 PM
"Find Solutions for Global Warming..."
Well, that'll give the climate change deniers some more fuel, won't it.
Sigh...
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/39uAIEw4jewlLqDu5aGsvROVw8_Vh_A-#1b2fc
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September 1, 2010 3:30 PM
*knock :/
Posted by: jebus-is-my-dog
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September 1, 2010 3:31 PM
Then what are we supposed to BBQ?? Chickens?
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 3:35 PM
Somebody needs to read Zimmer's Parasite Rex.
Posted by: seculargaytheist
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September 1, 2010 3:35 PM
He hates the whole world, Boom-de-ah-da, Boom-de-ah-da, Boom-de-ah-da, Boom-de-ah-da!
Posted by: irenedelse
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September 1, 2010 3:36 PM
Not to mention "Man vs Wild"...
Yeah, really. But at least, Bad Universe and the prospect of asteroids wrecking havoc on mankind should cheer him up.
Posted by: irenedelse
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September 1, 2010 3:38 PM
seculargaytheist #14 FTW!!
Posted by: SteveM
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September 1, 2010 3:38 PM
I do share his hatred of "Kate plus eight" and "47 kids and counting", etc.
Posted by: dsmwiener
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September 1, 2010 3:38 PM
First, let me say that I like babies and do not agree with Mr. Nutbag.
Second, the biggest problem facing industrialized and post-industrial societies is declining population. Japan's population is projected to shrink by up to 50%. If not for immigration, Europe, the US, and Canada would have falling populations.
Third, people should stay on their meds.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 3:40 PM
LOLZ! Fuck, we are a smartassed bunch.
Posted by: Akira MacKenzie
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September 1, 2010 3:42 PM
@ Sepia Re #10:
[blockquote]"Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people's brains until they get it!!"[/blockquote]
And the Creationists are going to LOVE that. For that alone, I hope they bring his moron out in a body bag.
Posted by: Olivia
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September 1, 2010 3:43 PM
Not one word about the Duggars?
Posted by: Zadius
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September 1, 2010 3:43 PM
His myspace says he's an atheist. We'll never hear the end of it... Now it's going to be Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and James Lee, in every debate. Mark it down.
Posted by: irenedelse
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September 1, 2010 3:44 PM
In before the cry of "Why, oh why, do moderate environmentalists never condemn these terrorists?"...
Posted by: gussnarp
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September 1, 2010 3:44 PM
Man, I hate when the nutbags are "environmentalists". More ammunition for the Limbaugh crowd. I especially like that the guy shows up with guns and explosives and then wants the Discovery Channel to stop glorifying war.
Whatever you think about gun control, surely we ought to be able to institute a system that prevents the mentally ill from getting their hands on guns. We won't catch them all, but I'm betting this guy's been diagnosed before...
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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September 1, 2010 3:44 PM
Well that's just ridiculous. What will we eat?
Posted by: Richard Smith
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September 1, 2010 3:45 PM
Umm. Maybe someone should tell him that The Colony isn't a historical series..?
Although it is otherwise a clear and well-thought-out discussion of current issues (!), I did notice a problem in #3:
I guess this guy doesn't really want to start a movement towards peace, and is actually lying about it. That being said, it'd probably be safest to assume the explosive device is not fake.
Posted by: levitooker
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September 1, 2010 3:45 PM
MSNBC says he's an atheist. We all know what's coming.
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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September 1, 2010 3:47 PM
An atheist that doesn't like babies? Sounds suspicious to me.
Posted by: hkdharmon
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September 1, 2010 3:47 PM
The guy is certainly sick in the head. That being said...
I think the world could certainly use more game shows.
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
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September 1, 2010 3:47 PM
... yes, yes we are...
But it does make me feel a smidge better about posting the following:
If I've said it once*, I've said it a thousand times: if yer gonna provoke an armed standoff with authorities, and your manifesto is online...
... well, fer cryin' out loud, spend the extra bucks and spring for your host's 'armed standoff/media-driven bandwidth spike package'...
It's just common courtesy. No one trying to talk you out of blowing people up wants to get a 404 on that stuff, fuck. Get with it.
(*/'Kay, so obviously, I actually haven't said it once.)
Posted by: edmangoodrich
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September 1, 2010 3:47 PM
It's so weird to me, because Daniel Quinn's writings were really effective at beginning my long line of questioning which led me here: to rationalism and atheism.
However, just about everyone else I've ever met who has been influenced by him is a total nutcase.
Poor Daniel Quinn.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkqQXrl7yEsdEmCGIJY6e4vK85szmL2lf8
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September 1, 2010 3:47 PM
History Channel's "AMERICA The Story of Us" deserved a hostage incident. Most of HC's fare does as well.
Posted by: Luke
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September 1, 2010 3:48 PM
Obivously the safety of the hostages is a serious situation, but that screed is pure comedy gold:
"INVENT DAMN YOU!!!!"
"These are the demands and sayings of Lee."
Posted by: BrianX
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September 1, 2010 3:48 PM
This has to be the inevitable result of the woo-loving fringe of the political left coddling people like Deepak Chopra -- this man is a screaming beacon of ignorance in a place where we don't need it. I hope it ends peacefully, but considering this guy's white-hot hatred of people in general, I'm less optimistic than I'd like to be.
Posted by: KG
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September 1, 2010 3:49 PM
*Sigh*
Well first, let's hope this lunatic doesn't kill or hurt anyone, including himself. Second, if he's really concerned about the environment, it's hard to see how he could have found a more counter-productive course of action.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 3:49 PM
"Do you want to own a gun?"
"Yes sir, that's why I'm applying for a permit."
"REJECTED! Somebody, get this guy on some meds!"
Y'know, that just might work.
Posted by: stevieinthecity#9dac9
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September 1, 2010 3:50 PM
Who wants to start a pool on how fast Glenn Beck blames this on Obama and the socialist left?
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 1, 2010 3:50 PM
He sounds a lot like a Pat Robertson that converted to Earth First/PETA... ;)
BTW, my sister dated one of those guys. Ugh... He was rooting for Ebola and AIDS to wipe out humanity.
Posted by: cypress
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September 1, 2010 3:51 PM
James Lee says, “I demand that The Discovery Channel force people to stop all war!!! And to do so, I will threaten people’s lives and MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!! And to further prove the merit of my demands, I refuse to hire an editor, will use multiple exclamation marks, all CAPS, and will use smart words like “WTF”!!!!
Posted by: Nancy New
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September 1, 2010 3:51 PM
"Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels."
Look at that. How special are Froggies?! And where are cephalopods in this?
Posted by: Janice in Toronto
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September 1, 2010 3:52 PM
Crap. He just -had- to mention Darwin...
I can hardly wait for all the other nutbags to illuminate us with their wisdom about this.
At least it'll make the next few days interesting. I was getting kinda bored with the Teabaggers.
Posted by: SteveM
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September 1, 2010 3:52 PM
re 21:
Aren't they covered by:
Posted by: PZ Myers
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September 1, 2010 3:52 PM
It doesn't matter if he's an atheist. It's not as if we have a history of sheltering our dangerous nutjobs -- heck, we even claw and shred our mild and moderate members, just to get them accustomed to the pain.
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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September 1, 2010 3:53 PM
Yeah, but I wonder how many religionist nutbars have besiege-envy right now.
Posted by: Disturbingly Openminded
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September 1, 2010 3:54 PM
Hey, I used to live right around the corner from the Discovery Channel headquarters.
Man, the traffic there sucked even when streets weren't blocked off for bomb threats.
Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau
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September 1, 2010 3:54 PM
Did he used to post here?
Posted by: Egg Fu Laura
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September 1, 2010 3:55 PM
James Lee's Myspace
Posted by: Doxie
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September 1, 2010 3:55 PM
This is depressing. However this gets resolved, this is going to give the Right more ammunition than they could ever have dreamed of. I can just see Bill O'Reilly reading out Point 7 in his look-at-these-evil-liberals voice, or Richard Littlejohn quoting it in his next column of lies.
It's such a pity for Lee as well, that a guy who wants to save the world is pushed to laying siege to commercial TV. Overpopulation is the problem but it's incredibly hard to solve. Poor man.
I hope no-one gets hurt, but there's nothing I can do from this side of the pond except watch the news. I guess there's nothing any of us can do really. Apart from take on the resulting backdraft from the fundagelicals.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 3:56 PM
I don't have a copy handy, but "Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!" is a quote or a paraphrase from Daniel Quinn's Ishmael (or perhaps The Story of B.
Posted by: cypress
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September 1, 2010 3:57 PM
Anyone checked to see if he has any babies of his own?
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 1, 2010 3:59 PM
ZOMG. He's atheist and Chinese... Faux News is going to go nuts on this... I can see this on Glen Beck's show, too, as part of the Socialist Chinese Obama Atheist Muslim Radical White-Hating Christan conspiracy.
Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau
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September 1, 2010 4:00 PM
His intense hatred of babies seems so familiar. Yeah yeah, we're all going to get it for this bastard's psychotic rampage.
Besides, fucktard, the Industrial Revolution was possible because of population growth and led to greater population growth.
Posted by: gussnarp
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September 1, 2010 4:01 PM
@Nancy New - Well, at least froggies are actually threatened. What's with raccoons in that list? I know he's mentally ill and all, but surely he knows that raccoons will be here long after we're gone.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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September 1, 2010 4:01 PM
The right will use this as a propaganda tool regardless of who the nut is. That's just how they are.
Posted by: lurker42
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September 1, 2010 4:01 PM
I am looking forward to a traffic nightmare and I'm having sniper flashbacks.
Thank you, crackpot!
Posted by: DavidJ
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September 1, 2010 4:02 PM
And the Fox News write up on their web page is slanted, go figure. Includes a gratuitous stab at Whale Wars for absolutely no purpose.
Posted by: irenedelse
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September 1, 2010 4:03 PM
It keeps getting better... Er, worse. From a Boing Boing comment:
Environmentalist, atheist, pro-evolution and birth-control, Asian... and now, a Democrat. The embodiment of all conservative wet dreams.
Posted by: Moggie
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September 1, 2010 4:03 PM
0.7 Timecubes.
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 1, 2010 4:04 PM
Damn you, that was funny! I separated my ribs last night and laughing hurts!
....................
I've also read this isn't his first issue with the Discovery Channel. He's also protested at least two other times for it not being fair to Christians and Christianity and he got arrested in 2008 for one of those protests.
I think it's safe to say he's just fucking nuts. And may, or may not, be an atheist.
He's also Canadian. Time to invade.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 4:04 PM
You know what? I don't agree with James Lee's actions, but this constant "OMG, but how will the Right spin it?" attitude is exactly why the Repubs are going to sweep fuckwit Palin into the White House. Look, we know Beck and Limbaugh and Coulter and the rest of Murdoch and FOX/DouchCorp. are going to negatively represent environmentalism no matter what. We could have the most mild mannered, bespectacled individual suggesting we not blowtorch live beluga whales on the third Sunday of every fourth month and the Right wing gasbags'll scream "Communism!"
These assholes are going to blame atheism, Darwin, and environmentalism for Lee's actions. So what else is new? Either come up with a counterspin strategy or STFU and stop wringing your hands.
Posted by: Chad
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September 1, 2010 4:04 PM
Limbaugh will have a field day with this one. Why couldn't he have gone to one of those conservative talk stations instead? But seriously, I hope this thing ends peacefully.
Posted by: Murphy
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September 1, 2010 4:05 PM
"Lee" he has been protesting the Discovery Channel for years.
Discovery Channel Protester
Local news would occasionally do a bit on him. Unfortunate he was never able to get help. I hope no one gets hurt.
Posted by: Dark Matter
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September 1, 2010 4:05 PM
The Ruppert Morlock crowd will be taking
advantage of this situation before sunset, and
as usual, liberal commentators and politicians will be backpedaling and making excuses like a abused housewife.
I'm glad I don't watch teevee anymore...
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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September 1, 2010 4:06 PM
Yes. It seems it may be an interesting game of connect-the-dots. I can hear the comments from my (very xtian) family already.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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September 1, 2010 4:06 PM
I hope they rescue the hostages without bloodshed, and get this guy help.
Posted by: Vicki, Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
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September 1, 2010 4:09 PM
Definitely a modern American: he has a really excessive faith in the power of television, combined with a touching belief that all you have to do is tell smart people "solve this" and they will.
Posted by: wayofdisaster
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September 1, 2010 4:09 PM
Thanks to your dig at the end, I'm now picturing Mike Rowe turning this into an episode of Dirty Jobs where he's, first, a hostage negotiator, then a SWAT team sniper, and finally an explosives defuser/disposalist.
Posted by: Balstrome
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September 1, 2010 4:11 PM
If your right wingnuts start to use this to attempt to beat us with, then we need to jump in and explain why they are wrong. The media like nothing better than two or more opponents in a death match cage fight. And we all know who has the intellect to win this one. Just go slowly, pointing out the cockups the right wingers make and half the battle is won, the other half will be the spit flying from the red faced retarded right.
Posted by: Girl Noir
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September 1, 2010 4:11 PM
I'm with Nancy New @#40 on this - Froggies are special.
I sincerely hope this ends peacefully and that this guy gets help. But first I'd urge him to read 'A Modest Proposal' by Jonathan Swift.
Posted by: Ewan R
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September 1, 2010 4:12 PM
Why is this a problem exactly? Imo it'd be awesome if all populations were projected to shrink by ~50% (through reduced birth rates rather than increased death rates) - not so great for the economy perhaps, but in terms of "the big picture"(tm)
Posted by: gussnarp
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September 1, 2010 4:12 PM
Wait, he's Canadian? We're off the hook then, we can just: "Blame Canada! With all their beady little eyes and flapping heads so full of lies. Blame Canada!"
Posted by: stevieinthecity#9dac9
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September 1, 2010 4:13 PM
The guy was fixated on the issue because he's mentally ill. Uhg, it's disgusting how the media is going to run with this.
Posted by: MPM
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September 1, 2010 4:13 PM
#24- Damn it, you're right.
"James Lee protests outside the Discovery Channel Building in February 2008, shortly before he was arrested and held for psychiatric evaluation. "
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/Hostages+taken+Discovery+Channel+with+metallic+cannister+devices+handgun/3469821/story.html#ixzz0yJKT2tpi
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 1, 2010 4:16 PM
lol. I'm not wringing. I'm laughing. They need no reason. They need no facts. They just manufacture the out-rage dujour and run with it.
This will fade like every thing else. And it might be amusing. We won't hear so much about the Obama-Muslim-Hates-White-People meme. It'll be overwhelmed by the Obama-Communist-Red-China-Al-Gore-GWHoax meme.
Posted by: raven
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September 1, 2010 4:16 PM
He's a Canadian!!! No laughing at us Yankees for at least a week for that one.
The best outcome would be if they manage to talk him down, taser him, and get him out of there alive.
Unfortunately, he seems too far gone for that. Second best is if he gets carried out dead.
We just have to hope like hell there isn't a lot of dead hostages in some sort of Waco style ending.
Posted by: greg.bourke0
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September 1, 2010 4:18 PM
Stop giving spoilers for next month's Deadliest Loon, exclusive to Discovery.
Posted by: Girl Noir
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September 1, 2010 4:18 PM
Oops, misread Nancy's comment at #40 - I must respectfully disagree, and avow the specialness of froggies.
Anyway, I'm all for decreasing the human population - I personally am not going to squeeze out any sprogs of my own. But filth? That seems a bit strong - after all, we have as much right to be here as any other species. We just seem to have turned into the planetwide equivalent of kudzu.
Posted by: Yoav
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September 1, 2010 4:21 PM
Some dingdong have already descried his demands as atheistic and darwinistic . More to come, I'm sure.
Posted by: Dwpeabody
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September 1, 2010 4:21 PM
I thought this was a joke....
He should have targeted discovery canada. Even his crackpot ravings would be better on TV then the endless reruns they show. I like mythbusters but a solid 10 hours of it last sunday....
Posted by: gussnarp
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September 1, 2010 4:22 PM
@MPM - I knew it! These guys can always get guns from the car trunks (that's a boot for you Brits) of criminals, but we really need to make sure that every gun sold at a store or gun show includes a criminal and mental health background check.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/i2i2mWobiumdDADH43L1hWg.TJg-#2d5ac
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September 1, 2010 4:23 PM
Well I definitely think there should be fewer people (I'm probably going to adopt rather then have bio offspring, may as well give some kids a home so they don't have to suffer because their bio parents were irresponsible idiots,) calling babies disgusting and such is going way overboard, fewer definitely doesn't mean none.
The Quiverfullers should be kicked in the reproductive organs hard enough to render them sterile though.
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 1, 2010 4:23 PM
My response will be George Tiller. If Athiests are guilty for this nut case, then O'Rielly is guilty for the murder of George Tiller.
Posted by: mazyloron
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September 1, 2010 4:25 PM
What I find most upsetting about all of this is that I was supposed to meet a friend in Silver Spring for Whiskey Wednesdays at a bar about two blocks from the Discovery building. Now that's not likely to happen without some sort of sniper action very soon.
Also, I can't wait for the right-wing conservatards to start hollering about how this is why the left is dangerous, look at this lub-rull nutbag, we need more conservative Christian values to prevent this sort of thing...but when I mention Joe Stack, James von Brunn, Hutaree, Scott Roeder or Tim McVeigh, no one bats an eye, it's nothing to get worked up over, they're just plain crazy, it's not a reflection of their political, religious or social views, etc.
Posted by: Xavier Ninnis
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September 1, 2010 4:26 PM
I've never commented before, but amidst all the comments about how bad the fallout from this was going be for the left, the environmentalists and the atheists, I had to mention that no one has pointed out the language he uses in the anti-immigration portion of his screed, which reads like it could've written by Tom Tancredo.
Doubtless the mainstream media will do it best to emphasize the stuff that makes him appear to be a lefty, but we don't have to help. Lets do what little we can to make sure the nativist crap gets its share of attention as well.
Posted by: Crommunist
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September 1, 2010 4:26 PM
It is actually rather counter-intuitive, but your take on this is backwards to the evidence. We don't need the world's population to shrink so much as we need it to stabilize. The reason birth rates are so off-the-charts high in developing countries is that children are a source of labour, compliance with and availability of family planning methods is low, and many children die young. In the more economically stable countries, we have the opposite problem - because people don't need children to work, and because we have a high level of access and knowledge, we reproduce below the rate at which we need to keep population size steady without immigration.
The solution to the overpopulation problem, happily to bleeding heart liberals like myself, is to improve infrastructure, economic opportunities, education and health in the developing world. Population sizes stabilize, mortality and fertility rates equal out, and overpopulation becomes less of a threat. It's better for all of us.
This Lee guy clearly hasn't read all of Quinn's stuff, nor anything else it seems.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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September 1, 2010 4:33 PM
QFT.
Cue right wing media blaming this on atheism/evolution/enviromentalism. (And not mentioning the guy's fear of immigration.)
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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September 1, 2010 4:33 PM
Oh for sure. Religious people take hostages too. Some even kidnap children and raise them in a shed in their backyard for years at a time. There are many examples that nullify this whole atheist/socialist/evil meme.
But that would require a solid grasp of reason, which is what the Faux News' are going to play into. The spin-meisters will have their fun building the right-wingers into a froth. It seems to be a kind of sport as of late. It would be hilarious too, if it wasn't that so many will take them seriously. Ah well.
Posted by: MrFire
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September 1, 2010 4:34 PM
MPM @73 - a piece of mild irony from later in that article:
Posted by: Ewan R
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September 1, 2010 4:36 PM
I disagree, shrinkage would be the better option imo - stabilization now still leaves a global population that takes a heavy toll on the environment - I'd far rather see the whole world have the high level of access and knowledge which appears to cause birth rates to hit non-replacement level numbers - if mankind disappears 50 generations later I honestly don't think this matters - so long as they disappear with a minimum of suffering (not that I think this'd be a likely outcome, but continuation of the species being of any import is always a concept that confuses me - so long as extinction comes with a whimper and not a bang) - imo we're already vastly overpopulated, so stabilization isn't a good thing by any means.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 4:37 PM
Oh, there'd better send in a Canuck negotiator. An American one will just fuck it up.
[Through a bullhorn.]
"Alright, tell us your demands!"
[Sounds of gunfire. A Canadian hostage negotiator grabs the bullhorn. He speaks to the other negotiators.]
"You hosers are going to get the hostages all killed. Lemme talk to him."
[Through the bullhorn.]
"Lee! I'm sorry about that. We're also sorry that our hostages are in the way of your beseigement. We just want to talk, eh? Nobody's trying to deke you out. Can we get you a chesterfield to relax on? We've left one in the south parkade with a case of pop, some Timbits and some serviettes."
Posted by: MPM
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September 1, 2010 4:37 PM
MrFire @88
And that littering conviction was for tossing money into the air outside the Discovery Channel headquarters. This guy has some real trouble finding successful ways to accomplish a goal.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/DhjBEuJ8pt63x6eBKuPx0Jv9_QE-#7c327
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September 1, 2010 4:38 PM
He'll just end up on Dancing with the Stars alongside Rod Blagojovich and Balloon Boy.
However, I could do without the astronomical explanations every Christmas for the Star of Bethlehem.
Dirty Jobs isn't so bad. If everyone had to watch Mike Rowe covered with sludge every day, the birth rate would drop considerably.
Posted by: Katharine
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September 1, 2010 4:39 PM
Oh, he tries to make us childfree people look bad. Shit.
I just think it's stupid when people have more than two/have unplanned ones/have them when they're clearly too stupid to raise them to be well-adjusted citizens and sure I think the population growth rate is too big and sure I hate anything under the age of 18 that has DNA from the species Homo sapiens, but I stop well short of saying WHARRGARBL EVERYONE NEEDS TO DIE.
Posted by: NeuroMarkus
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September 1, 2010 4:40 PM
This news was pretty frightening to my lab when the only news we had was that a SWAT team was on the roof of the discovery building, where shots had been fired and a man possessed explosives. Now that my coworker's wife is no longer at the place, I feel more free to ridicule this guy's insanity without worrying too much about anything horrible happening.
In hindsight, how myopic of me. Hope everyone else is in the clear too.
Posted by: Mingr
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September 1, 2010 4:44 PM
Geez. A Canadian nutbar atheist pro-evolution pro-birth control Democrat?
What are the odd of that?
I meant a Canadian Democrat.
Brain stem shot!
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 4:45 PM
Not at all: it's simply human of you, NeuroMarkus. Glad to hear your coworker's wife is safe. Joking aside, I truly hope it turns out that way for everyone else as well.
Posted by: Katharine
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September 1, 2010 4:46 PM
I'd make some sports joke about the Lions, the Tigers, and Da Bears (oh my), but I don't know enough about football.
Posted by: contrabass
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September 1, 2010 4:46 PM
This guy isn't a leftist, or even a liberal. If you notice, in his ravings he complains about immigration and "anchor babies" and uses the term "Ponzi scheme" to refer to the US government. Both of these are pretty clearly signs that politically, this guy is a Tea Partier at best.
Posted by: capnjammer
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September 1, 2010 4:48 PM
Now, this is what happens because of all the fearmongering going on in the corporate media.
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 1, 2010 4:50 PM
He's a Tea Party endorsed candidate for one of the Ohio seats in the US Senate. And I bet this story doesn't make it front page on Faux News...
Posted by: btthegeek
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September 1, 2010 4:52 PM
With his hatred of immigration, you think he's really a democrat? I think this guy needs his own party or something. Consulscipio237 lack of common sense to the nth power with a side of catholic self loathing and WBC apocaliptico to drink. Weird, but I really hope everyone gets out ok, even the nutjob.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 4:53 PM
To be fair, a conservative involved in sex scandal isn't exactly news.
Posted by: Physicist
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September 1, 2010 4:54 PM
I have and Idea.
The Discovery Channel could do a show and invite all the people who believe humans are filth. And let them show their commitment to cause by all blowing their brains out at the smae time on TV.
Posted by: cairne.morane
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September 1, 2010 4:57 PM
How long does he give Pilate to dismantle the Roman Empire?
Posted by: Physicist
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September 1, 2010 4:59 PM
#7 Will definately be much fodder.
Posted by: Physicist
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September 1, 2010 5:01 PM
He was shot by police. Ha!
Posted by: Don Quijote
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September 1, 2010 5:03 PM
jebus-is-my-dog #12
Hombre, I,m with you but have you found thet you can never eat a whole one?
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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September 1, 2010 5:04 PM
See what happens to people's sanity when you let parents bring small children onto airplanes?
*runs away*
Posted by: gchudov
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September 1, 2010 5:06 PM
He is not a Canadian. According to a Canadian news site, this myth originated from the fact that he chose Canadian hosting provider for his web page, and this hosting provider's address was mistaken for his own.
Posted by: NeuroMarkus
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September 1, 2010 5:09 PM
@ 96
Thanks Brownian.
For those discussing his political views, to me his demands read like the ravings of a schizophrenic, rather than an extremist on either side (nevertheless adapting both extremes because, well, a schizophrenic world view doesn't really require consistence).
It's a shame this guy didn't get the medical attention he needed...
Posted by: duckphup
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September 1, 2010 5:09 PM
Do not leesten to heem, Dahlink. Eet ees all lies. Keel moose and squirrel.
Posted by: Acronym Jim
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September 1, 2010 5:12 PM
Brownian@60:
Lee may be an atheistic, evolutionist, environmentalist nutbag of Chinese descent, but he's also (weirdly) anti-immigration. Accordingly, I'm blaming Beck, Limbaugh, Brewer, Angle, Tait, Tancredo et al for his push into loony-tuneville.
Posted by: MultiTool
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September 1, 2010 5:13 PM
Dang it, James Lee wasn't supposed to deploy until Tuesday. Well now we ALL gotta strap on our bomb belts and head for Discovery Channel.
And I already bought hot dogs for Labor Day weekend, sheesh.
Well at least people won't taunt us Atheists now they know we can explode.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmVT1LBhwmO9ej9LNg7a5e9d-AVJ8ezfmE
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September 1, 2010 5:17 PM
I have to admit, some of his comments about children are spot on. I don't agree with his methods, though - this guy's going to make misanthropes look bad! :(
Posted by: Ternon
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September 1, 2010 5:17 PM
Well, overpopulation will be the most critical problem humanity will face, and will cause a cascade of many other problems, but this tone-
is not the right way to go about it...
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 5:18 PM
I said "I stopped at yelling at people", not "I stopped yelling at people."
Posted by: skeptifem
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September 1, 2010 5:19 PM
wow, he is unique. I have never heard demands that bordered on social responsibility before. I hope they get him medicated and that no one gets hurt.
Meanwhile, I'm going to brace for the massive pr backlash against atheists & environmentalists based on this dude. No matter how well this ends he is still going to be held up as Everything Wrong With The Godless on every news channel.
Posted by: Physicist
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September 1, 2010 5:19 PM
If this had worked was going to do the same thing demanding more UFO shows.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmRjbXoDgCq4N0aNWT2Z2RtB4Mm9CbDVys
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September 1, 2010 5:22 PM
Dang, why couldn't he have taken over the Discovery Institute instead of the Discovery Channel.....
Posted by: KG
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September 1, 2010 5:23 PM
Fortunately, the hostages have been freed. Unfortunately, the lunatic has been shot (no, I'm not blaming the police for shooting him), nothing yet on his condition.
Posted by: CompulsoryAccount7746
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September 1, 2010 5:24 PM
I've long wondered whether Fox News was a social experiment to see how long it'd take until somebody torched the Fox offices to stop the loon incitement.
Wouldn't have guessed Discovery'd be hit first.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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September 1, 2010 5:26 PM
This guy sounds like he is suffering from an entire bettery of untreated psychological disorders. Unfortunately, his incoherent rantings and his apparent preparedness to at least threaten violence (we can only hope that he does not kill anyone, and that he can be taken into custody without violence), paired with his bastardised version of an environmentalist manifesto, will give the Right wing talking heads endless ammunition with which to attack serious climate science and environmental campaigners.
Lee, in his deeply disturbed way, probably thinks he that is helping, but he could hardly be doing more to harm the environmental cause, and his constant references to Darwin and his statement that;
Will lead to the further demonisation of evolutionary science and atheism as well. We should probably be prepared for every troll that turns up here for the next few months (probably years) to whell out Lee as proof that all atheists are closet terorists.
Posted by: Ternon
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September 1, 2010 5:26 PM
Really?
Almost nothing that he said can be considered insane, only the violent way he approached it may be maybe considered mentally unstable.
And I'm not sure even about that when you objectively assess the current zeitgeist of humanity.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 5:28 PM
"Demand Number 116: An armrest for each passenger's chair. No more sharing armrests!
Demand Number 117: More peanuts in those packages!
Demand Number 118: SkyMall needs a foodcourt with a Sbarro. Preferably run by Hammacher Schlemmer.
Demand Number 119..."
Sorry skeptifem, but this is how I initially parsed your comment and it was funny.
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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September 1, 2010 5:28 PM
AJ Milne, I'm in love with you ... or with your style anyway. But you probably already knew that. I suppose I'm at the end of a long line.I'm deriving unholy pleasure from repeating the bits about filthy babies and parasitic babies. Next time I see a really cute baby on TV, I'll block my usual, "Oh, look at the tiny person! Littleums is so cute..." response and go with, "You filthy, parasitic little waste of space!", but said in the same cooing tone.
Sorry, really sorry about the mentally ill person, and about the mentally ill person having to be shot, but still, we must not let that keep us from wallowing in the filthy fun factors whenever they present themselves. It's a survival mechanism.
Armed man shot: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/armed-man-holding-one-hostage-at-discovery-channel-headquarters/story-e6frf7lf-1225913088442
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/qefoIsYonsZh.CakGON9rcYztJ0o#e413d
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September 1, 2010 5:29 PM
"MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!"
He wants the Discovery Channel to be interesting? Wow. All his other demands seems almost reasonable in comparison to that one.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkqQXrl7yEsdEmCGIJY6e4vK85szmL2lf8
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September 1, 2010 5:31 PM
Funny, about 3 years ago somebody posted this photo on his Myspace
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b362/aphex_vogt/Monkeywithagun.jpg
http://www.myspace.com/worldguardian#ixzz0yJ5Ipadp
Posted by: bloodtoes
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September 1, 2010 5:31 PM
Apparently he's been shot, hostages rescued.
Wow.. that spices up what has been an otherwise dull Wednesday.
Posted by: lose_the_woo
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September 1, 2010 5:32 PM
Ternon #123
I'm glad you said "Almost nothing...".
I'm a little suspicious about the squirrels part myself. Only a little.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmVT1LBhwmO9ej9LNg7a5e9d-AVJ8ezfmE
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September 1, 2010 5:32 PM
We don't need the world's population to shrink so much as we need it to stabilize.
Why not shrink? Why not shrink dramatically? Is anyone offering a real argument that more people with a poorer standard of living is better than fewer people with a higher standard of living? Why do we persist in thinking we need more and more humans?
(One could make a ridiculous argument that "if life is good, we should create as much of it as we can possibly sustain - since even a miserable day being hungry but alive is better than being dead" the only moral option would be to breed ourselves to collapse. But it would be ridiculous in spite of being a logical consequence of treating human life as 'precious')
Posted by: Doug
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September 1, 2010 5:33 PM
He's dead. This is about as funny as cancer.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 5:34 PM
How odd: when I see a baby, I'm forced to block my natural response of "You filthy, parasitic little waste of space!" and instead say something to the effect of "Oh, Littleums is so cute...", usually because the parents are right there. (I never say, "Look at the tiny person!" because babies aren't people.)
Posted by: Ströh
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September 1, 2010 5:34 PM
Suspect shot.,
Looks like SWAT got tired of negotiating. Big surprise, they also claimed he "had a wide range of emotions" during said talks. Nutcase.
The police claim to have him in custody so he might still be alive.
Posted by: BluesBassist
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September 1, 2010 5:35 PM
I'm not sure which potential fallout from this would be worse: the right-wing demented fuckwits who will blame atheism/evolution/environmentalism, or the left-wing demented fuckwits who will blame lax "gun control" laws.
Posted by: Physicist
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September 1, 2010 5:38 PM
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 5:39 PM
Yeah? Think a little harder.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmVT1LBhwmO9ej9LNg7a5e9d-AVJ8ezfmE
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September 1, 2010 5:40 PM
Apparently he's been shot, hostages rescued.
A sort of ironic form of population reduction, huh.
Posted by: Crommunist
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September 1, 2010 5:42 PM
You're drawing a false equivalence between "need" and "want". Whether it is better to shrink than grow is debatable. All I was saying is that the current problem is not one of universal over-breeding. And I was definitely not saying that we want more people with a lower standard of living; I said the exact opposite of that. Please read the comment for comprehension, rather than reacting to what you think I said.
Unless you're not so much refuting my statement as you are providing your opinion generally. If that's the case, I'll feel free to take my own advice :P
Posted by: KG
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September 1, 2010 5:43 PM
Brownian@136,
BluesBassist is a glibertarian - you're wasting your time asking him to think.
Physicist - take a look in the mirror. This guy has the excuse that he's mentally ill. As far as I know, you don't.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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September 1, 2010 5:44 PM
Ternon @ 123;
Well he did say;
Neither option sounds particularly practical, and any attempt to enforce them would likely be a mite immoral. I know that 'teh ebil Human Rights brigade' would not approve, at least...
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 5:45 PM
I was hoping it'd end better than that.
Posted by: realinterrobang
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September 1, 2010 5:47 PM
Brownian, on behalf of the Soviet Canuckistani Conspiracy, I would like to present to you this internet, with a side of poutine and a Coke.
Admittedly, I don't like babies either, but I don't go to those kind of lengths. I'm kind of firmly in the "if humans go extinct by dying off gradually, that's fine with me" school of thought.
However, my Inner Fascist would like it known that she would personally perform a Mississippi Appendectomy on Anna Duggar and everyone who thinks like her, and free vasectomies for the men, as well. Having so many kids you have to put them (and, in that context, that means "the girls") into indentured servitude before they hit the double digits of age is child abuse (on top of the kind of child abuse it is to raise kids in that kind of Superfund-site Christianity).
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 5:48 PM
Oh, I know.
Posted by: johnnykaje
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September 1, 2010 5:49 PM
This guy is a Bill Hicks routine, only with guns and without the funny.
And I like Bill Hicks.
I'm bothered by how I'm not bothered by the fact that I agree with most of what the guy said...
Posted by: Greg Peterson
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September 1, 2010 5:49 PM
I haven't noticed that right wingers or theists NEED anything actually to be true to spew their ignorance and bigotry, so I'm not worried about this very unfortunate incident having any appreciable impact, beyond a few days worth of soundbites.
Posted by: BrianX
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September 1, 2010 5:50 PM
contrabass:
I don't think there are too many hard greens in the teabag party. Then again, the guy reminded me of Ted Kaczynski with rabies, so maybe he was?
Posted by: Ströh
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September 1, 2010 5:51 PM
Regarding the overpopulation issue I had a rather lengthy discussion with a friend about it the day before yesterday (the Swedish election is the 19th and when we run out current issues we tend to, er... extrapolate)
Demographics do indicate that the number of births shrink when welfare increases so in the long run it shouldn't be a problem if we eliminate, or at least continue to steadily reduce, poverty. On a cynical note, any world famine would drastically reduce said populations anyway so I don't think - as some do - that overpopulation poses as great a threat to humanity as AGW or general resource exhaustion.
If we do, however, manage to reverse the aging process (not an unthinkable scenario to some researchers) I guess we would have to deal with it. But that's practically SciFi stuff.
Posted by: billygutter01
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September 1, 2010 5:52 PM
A Malthus-spouting, PETA-phile Luddite.
Hmm....
How novel.
Posted by: Rick Miller
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September 1, 2010 5:55 PM
The guy is taking hostages in a media network office, so it's pretty much self-evident that he's an attention-seeking nut-case.
Helping to publish his manifesto seems like a bad idea to me.
Posted by: Physicist
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September 1, 2010 5:56 PM
"Physicist - take a look in the mirror. This guy has the excuse that he's mentally ill. As far as I know, you don't."
Sorry no empathy here, and I am sure you can tell that to the hostages he was holding. After they go through hours of mental health therapy because of the filth. I am sure it will comfort the post tramatic disorder they are about to go through.
Posted by: Ströh
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September 1, 2010 6:00 PM
Coming to think of it, the Finnish school shooting of November 2007 had a similar culprit. I guess atheism and environmentalism can draw some crazies too: they see the former as an excuse to abandon all morality (and replace God with themselves) and the latter to view humans as parasites: all is, of course, just an excuse to kill.
They are essentially the spawn of right-wing nightmares. To the rest of us, they are nothing more than proof that any ideology can ultimately be perverted to justify murder.
Posted by: lexicalninja
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September 1, 2010 6:01 PM
Posted by: JuniperBlue
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September 1, 2010 6:05 PM
@ 31:
I'm not a nutcase :-)
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkqQXrl7yEsdEmCGIJY6e4vK85szmL2lf8
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September 1, 2010 6:06 PM
"Mississippi Appendectomy"
"An involuntary sterilization. During the heyday of the American eugenics movement (1920s and 1930s), poor black women were frequently given hysterectomies or tubal ligations against their will and without their knowledge. It was considered particularly frequent in the Deep South"
Good thing there is Urban Dictionary
Posted by: Ströh
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September 1, 2010 6:06 PM
OK, FOX confirmed it. The guy's dead. 1 bullet from a SWAT sniper.
Why I'm watching FOX? For some reason TMZ is streaming FOX 5 and TMZ was at the top of the Google search.
Posted by: Marco
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September 1, 2010 6:08 PM
So, in the best American tradition, the gunman was killed by the police.
We is safe, said the very literate chief. We're in the good hands of refined adults in full charge...
Posted by: KG
|
September 1, 2010 6:11 PM
My point exactly. Evidently it's beyond your comprehension that someone might have empathy both for the hostages and for this lunatic.
Which would, of course, be exactly the same as telling it to a random commenter on a blog.
Posted by: viggen
|
September 1, 2010 6:12 PM
To wave around an explosive device yet squeal that the channel should stop promoting weapons and violence, there's gotta be something wrong in his head. To rail that people should stop proliferating yet bleat about no more war is a double standard: if his message were consistent, he would want more war to kill off what he considers to be the extra people. This guy is confused at a level that I do not envy.
@121
I don't see why you would focus solely on Fox News, especially implying that they sent forth a lunatic who's mostly preaching a Left-wing message. Anti-war, stop-global-warming; mark that-- this lunatic holding up the Discovery Channel swings Left! How does this guy justify his racism and anti-immigration views? He's tying it to over-population destroying the planet, which is a progressive view, not a conservative one. If you want to blame the media, which I don't think is even warranted in this case, blame the entire establishment. CNN and MSNBC are no less biased in how they treat their reporting... they just tend to swing left instead of right. If you think any of the news media are giving a fair, even and completely honest balance in their reporting... save maybe "The Onion"... I've got some land in Alaska you might be interested in buying. All the news media are using the same methods at the same level of veracity, just in service of different ideologies.
Posted by: KG
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September 1, 2010 6:13 PM
Lee is now confirmed to be dead. Police say they thought he was "about to detonate his explosives", according to BBC.
Posted by: Physicist
|
September 1, 2010 6:13 PM
More fodder, he was a fan of AL Gore Channel 7 of DC is reporting.
Posted by: Andrew Hall
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September 1, 2010 6:14 PM
I may have gripes against my fellow monkeys, but I wouldn't them parasites. Though I have been on the bus numerous times and it makes me think of the Matrix when Smith tells Morpheus (to paraphrase), "It's your smell... it gets into everything."
http://laughinginpurgatory.blogspot.com/2010/09/30-days-of-blasphemy-day-1.html
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 6:16 PM
Remind me never to speak in metaphor whilst having sex with a cop.
Posted by: Ströh
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September 1, 2010 6:20 PM
@KG: FOX claims the TacTeam opened fire when Lee pointed his gun at a hostage. Either way it was probably justified.
Some reports say that the building had a day-care center - FAUX is griping about that now, they so do not want to let the scare factor of this story go just yet.
Anyway, we should probably be thankful Lee was either not crazy enough to actually hurt children or did not know about them.
Posted by: ladyh42
|
September 1, 2010 6:21 PM
I hate to say it, but I might be with him on the baby shows,
no one should see how their food is made. . .
*ducks for cover*
Posted by: llewelly
|
September 1, 2010 6:23 PM
Sven DiMilo | September 1, 2010 3:25 PM:
You'd think if it was Nisbet the article would have a picture of his perfect hair.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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September 1, 2010 6:24 PM
Again with the anti-parasitism. You know that's just sociocultural remnants of the Protestant work ethic speaking.
Posted by: Don Quijote
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September 1, 2010 6:26 PM
Don´t worry about fundies backlash,there is plenty of ammunition against that. Hope that he hadn´t been vaccinated.
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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September 1, 2010 6:26 PM
I call on the elected officials of Silver Springs to immediately ban the construction of any Environmentalist Culture Centers With Gaia Worshippin' Huts within two blocks of the Discovery Channel.
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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September 1, 2010 6:29 PM
I call on the elected officials of Silver Spring to immediately ban the opening of any Environmentalist Cultural Centers and Gaia Worshippin' Huts within two blocks of the Discovery Channel.
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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September 1, 2010 6:31 PM
Whoops, sorry about the double post:(
Posted by: flyonthewall
|
September 1, 2010 6:32 PM
yeah right an atheist who doesn't like babies.
What's next outlawing bacon.
Atheist my ass. He's an atheist like Kirk Cameron used to be an atheist.
Posted by: Crommunist
|
September 1, 2010 6:32 PM
@Josh
They are allowed to build them, but is it a good idea? We have to be sensitive...
Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official
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September 1, 2010 6:39 PM
Heheh. . .you speak troof:-)
Posted by: llewelly
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September 1, 2010 6:46 PM
SEE!! Prophet Michael Cric
hton was right!! The warmists are terrorist madmen, plotting to destroy civilization!! They HATE all humanity, they are eugenicists, and they despise the blessings holy CO2 will bring to us.Posted by: MadScientist
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September 1, 2010 6:50 PM
I'm never optimistic in these cases. The only sensible strategic response is to get people in to kill the bastard. Go on with the negotiating, but be prepared to act quick to kill if the negotiations are going nowhere - you can't wait until the terrorist shows the too-obvious signs that he doesn't really want to talk. There are some pretty big risks involved if not much is known of the explosive device, but I wouldn't put many people at risk because of any misplaced kindness and the remote prospect of peacefully apprehending the nutcase.
Posted by: bybelknap
|
September 1, 2010 6:51 PM
He was shot and killed by police a few minutes ago.
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
|
September 1, 2010 7:08 PM
Guardian UK article: Discovery Channel hostage-taker shot dead by police.
Posted by: TheRatKing
|
September 1, 2010 7:12 PM
Well, the scores for Deranged Maniacs are now thus;
Atheists: 4
Religious: 256,723,992
Posted by: Ichthyic
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September 1, 2010 7:14 PM
If you really wanna weep for the future of mankind, read the comments to his posts on his myspace page.
bloody depressing.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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September 1, 2010 7:16 PM
The flies have landed already. David Klinghoffer at the CSC website:
James J. Lee, Hostage-taker and Darwinist
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/09/james_j_lee_hostage-taker_and_037811.html
Somehow I don't think those people are actually unhappy when morons take hostages, so long as it's "Darwinists."
Of course it's the despicable Klinghoffer. The equally vile Meyer is ultimately responsible, but he pretends to be above the shit-raking that he oversees.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: «bønez_brigade»
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September 1, 2010 7:16 PM
Crazy as he was, I have to agree with him about TLC. That channel is definitely shit.
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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September 1, 2010 7:17 PM
Time to sharpen up the No True AtheistTM defence [Note Canadian spelling]. Or perhaps the But He's an ExtremistTM one.
Posted by: btthegeek
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September 1, 2010 7:22 PM
It's really a shame. The guy was obviously mentally ill. Too bad they won't focus on why he wasn't able to get the help he needed.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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September 1, 2010 7:27 PM
source
Posted by: ckitching
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September 1, 2010 7:27 PM
Fine by me. If they want to pin collective blame on us, we'll just have to demand that Christians take collective blame for the Ku Klux Clan, Scott Roeder, Tim McVeigh, George Emil Banks, Maurice Clemmons, and... Well, you get the point.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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September 1, 2010 7:32 PM
it begins
Lee was a "liberal, atheistic, evolutionist...To be sure, not all liberals are as far gone as this nut-job, but most of them at least have the same zip code as this guy."
Posted by: Ichthyic
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September 1, 2010 7:41 PM
Time to sharpen up the No True AtheistTM defence [Note Canadian spelling]. Or perhaps the But He's an ExtremistTM one.
his list was a hodge podge of complete insanity.
everyone can find something to justify their personal hatreds!
whee!
In the immortal words of Hubert J Farnsworth:
"I don't want to live on this planet anymore"
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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September 1, 2010 7:42 PM
ckitching @ 185;
Come now, it is hardly reasonable to expect fundies to apply a consistent and equitable single standard to themselves as well as atheists. Their heads would explode with the effort alone.
We all know that the liars for jebus have no interest in worthwhile debate or fair dealing. They want to destroy anything that they think threatens their cherished delusions. They take the term 'Culture Wars' all too literally.
Unfortunately, theists control most major media outlets, at leat in the US. They can therefore manage at least a slice of the discourse in any way they see fit, and we will be hard pressed to get the rational argument out to any sugnificant percentage of the populous at large.
Events like this serve to enhance the cashe of organisations like Faux News in the eyes of the mainstream. The next time they launch one of their cannards about atheist violence they can point to Lee and say; "look there, one atheist terrorist. Now I am not saying that all atheists are as far gone as this guy, but they share the same zip-code..."
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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September 1, 2010 7:45 PM
Beck will have a field day with this.
Posted by: Qwerty
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September 1, 2010 7:45 PM
With his use of all caps thoughout his diatribe, he reminds me of some of the nuttier trolls who've plagued this website.
Yes, he needed medical attention. Too bad he went off the proverbial deep end and now has lost his life.
Posted by: llewelly
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September 1, 2010 7:54 PM
ckitching | September 1, 2010 7:27 PM:
But that wouldn't be a balanced news story.
Posted by: raven
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September 1, 2010 7:59 PM
Very incomplete list but a good start.
Eric Rudolph, Olympic bomber. The Hutaree militia. Cho Seung, raised fundie, 33 dead at Virginia tech. Paul Hill. The Dover school district. Too many child raping RCC priests to list.
About all we can do is compare body counts. The xians are still way ahead.
Posted by: raven
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September 1, 2010 8:03 PM
Left out a bunch. Jonestown, Guyana, 900 dead. Rev. Jim Jones was an Assembly of god minister.
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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September 1, 2010 8:11 PM
That's it, point him out as a disciple of Tom Tancredo. And make sure to mention that he was a Republican, whether it's true or not. :-)
More on the DCist re hostage-taking at Discovery Channel.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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September 1, 2010 8:15 PM
actually, Raven, you're great with lists like this (recalling the number of academics ousted by idiot xians).
could you please cobble up a VERY long list?
go back as far as you like.
I'll just paste it wherever I see someone attempting to equate Lee with atheism or environmentalism.
thanks
Posted by: Religion Gone Crazy
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September 1, 2010 8:17 PM
Ok, yes the guy is fanatical but many of the points he brings up are quite legitimate and should be seriously considered (at the very least).
Posted by: Ichthyic
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September 1, 2010 8:20 PM
many of the points he brings up are quite legitimate
many aren't.
it's a very bad idea to try to use the insane to spark debate.
well, on anything other than the need for better mental healthcare, anyway.
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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September 1, 2010 8:24 PM
In the realm of blame all Xs for the actions of one X, Fred at Slactivist once again has it covered, and quite well.
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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September 1, 2010 8:27 PM
I guess we should just chalk it up to "crazed loner, nothing to do with us." Or as someone once said, "Ideas are not responsible for the people who believe in them."
By the way, how was this obvious nutcase able to obtain projectile weapons?
Furthermore, our retarded Conservative Prime Minister, Harper, wants to scrap the gun registry for rifles and shotguns, which are used in 80$ of homicides with guns outside the larger cities in Canada. Since the registry came in, homicides with long guns have dropped 10%. It's worthwhile investigating the cause before scrapping the registry. (Handguns have been registered for longer and their possession and transport is more restricted.)
Posted by: Ziggy66
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September 1, 2010 8:37 PM
At least Phil Plait wiped out the human population of Sydney... SEVERAL TIMES!
Actually I agree with #2, there are way to many baby birthing shows on TLC.
Posted by: carlbuell
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September 1, 2010 8:38 PM
The only person hurt in this entire "terrorist" episode, was Mr. Lee himself. At this point, when we don't even know if the bombs were real, it seems to me that comparing Lee to mass murderers is way over the top. He could have easily done some real damage. He was deluded, but as far as I can see from reports on his background, he just wanted to be heard. All his protests in the past had been non-violent and nobody was listening. He needed somebody to care and nobody did. He's already off the New York Times front page.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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September 1, 2010 8:46 PM
Except the people held hostage. Who knows what sort of mental trauma they experienced.
Oh and the business being disrupted.
And the tax payers having to pay the cops to respond to this.
And I could go on.
Who's to say he wouldn't have?
That's one of the world's shittiest arguments.
If he wanted be heard he could have done something non-violent. Seriously, get a grip.
Are you fucking serious? So because he hadn't been violent and no one listened, he should get violent?
What are you smoking?
Well boo fucking hoo.
It is hard to accept that someone who is smart enough to turn on and operate a computer would make these weak ass excuses.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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September 1, 2010 8:51 PM
just fyi:
Carl Buell
Posted by: raven
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September 1, 2010 8:52 PM
That isn't true. There will be no nuclear baby winter.
Both Australia and France among others, were facing demographic extinction a decade ago. They simply started a propaganda campaign and fiddled around with subsidies and taxes.
France is now one of the most fertile countries in Europe and Australia, IIRC, is wondering what to do with all the extra people they will have down the line.
Human reproductive potential is huge with modern medicine. And the output is elastic in civilized countries and responds to a variety of inputs.
Not sure if a declining population is all the bad in some places. Certainly some countries to my west coast USA eyes look pretty crowded right now. I like the mountains, forests, wilderness areas and wildlife. City fans can always visit the bay area (6 million), Seattle (2 million), or Socal (who knows, lots and lots between SD and LA).
And all that is without immigration which isn't going to stop in the forseeable future.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
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September 1, 2010 8:54 PM
Carl Buell is not making excuses, Rev, he is pointing out--corectly--that it's absurd to equate this guy with mass murderers.
He had plenty of opportunity to hurt somebody and did not.
Posted by: carlbuell
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September 1, 2010 9:09 PM
@ 203 Sorry to raise your hackles Rev., I wasn't making excuses for Lee at all, and I certainly wasn't saying that because he was non-violent in the past meant I thought that he was proper to threaten violence. My only point was that he isn't a mass murdered, and even his attempts to force people to listen didn't work. I AM sorry I didn't express that better.
Posted by: raven
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September 1, 2010 9:10 PM
Any list of xian psychos committing mass murder is going to be very long and rather gruesome. This is a start anyway. Anyone who wants, cut and paste it, add to it whatever. Call it a xian mass murder wiki. And oh yeah, Jonestown.
Posted by: Doc Bill
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September 1, 2010 9:15 PM
Well, now the Discovery Institute creationists neo-theocrats have weighed in and, of course, all this is the fault of Charles Darwin.
Must have been resurrected or something.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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September 1, 2010 9:21 PM
Oh I agree that equating him with mass murderers is absurd. That point I agree with.
But claiming that only Lee was hurt is equally absurd. Sure Lee got it physically worse but that's mostly his own doing. And claiming that he just wanted to be heard is an excuse. There are plenty of non violent ways to be heard. Not being listened to isn't an excuse to take people hostage.
1. Define hurt. I wonder what the people taken hostage have to say about that?
2. Who's to say he wouldn't have had it gone on?
I agree with that point and apologize for blowing up. Just got off a plane from a biz trip that was fairly stressful.
Posted by: raven
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September 1, 2010 9:22 PM
Getting back to #18 and #205, Australia was facing extinction a decade ago, according to the nuclear baby winter alarmists. It never happened for a variety of reasons. Jeesh, can't we get back to something more realistic like Bigfoots in the garden or Moslems in the garage or something.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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September 1, 2010 9:23 PM
Well, now the Discovery Institute creationists neo-theocrats have weighed in and, of course, all this is the fault of Charles Darwin.
The Disinformation Institute considers this meat.
Instead, this MUST be made by PZ and other science bloggers to become a very unpalatable morsel indeed.
seriously, if we can't sharpen our teeth on THIS nonsense, what the fuck are we even doing here?
Posted by: dawei
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September 1, 2010 9:27 PM
I would not compare Lee to anyone, anyone who takes hostages has their own reasons and those reasons vary greatly. It is the decision to take hostages and the real threat that the hostage taker will do harm to said hostages is the only issue that really matters at the time. There is only two questions should we try to negotiate to save both hostages and taker or should we shot the sucker dead at the first opportunity to only save the hostages.
Things can go way wrong extremely quickly. Just last week In Manila we had a bus load of Hong Kong tourists taken hostage by an ex-Philippine cop with an assault rifle and a grudge against his former employer. The police swat team had many clear opportunities to take this guy out but they decided to negotiate which at first went well, later he sprayed the bus killing 8 innocent holiday makers. It is big news here in Hong Kong and the recriminations are flying about why they did not shoot him dead when they had the chance.
If you have a situation where someone of unknown mental state takes a group of people hostage and appears to have the means to end their life we should only focus on protecting the hostages at all costs and if that means taking out the hostage taker at the first opportunity then so be it even if negotiations are ongoing. The loss of one innocent cannot be risked.
Posted by: Devil's Chord
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September 1, 2010 9:28 PM
If he would so concerned about interesting programs bringing these problems to attention, maybe he should have gone the Michael Moore route and actually influenced people with his own documenatary - made absolutely fascinating of course. In this case, some talent and a camera would have got him much further than his threats and a gun.
Posted by: seanjreynolds
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September 1, 2010 9:28 PM
MY GOD it was on 9-1-10....that's like 9/11 times...
If history is any guide, Ann Coulter will be out to demand an invasion of the Galapagos, killing their marine iguanas and threatening the others at gunpoint to remain on land like God designed.
Anyway I think you need to fake a few more sympathetic posts for this guy so Atheist blogs get the blame. Which is ridiculous; bloggers don't go outside.
Posted by: Adamvs Maximvs
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September 1, 2010 9:38 PM
Sure he may be Canadian, but all the bad stuff happened in the US
What did you guys do to him!?!?!?!?!?
Posted by: skeptifem
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September 1, 2010 9:40 PM
It kinda sheds some light on the islam and terrorism relationship that was alleged during the mosque debate, eh?
Posted by: Kobra
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September 1, 2010 9:49 PM
Y'know, I hate humanity as much as the next misanthrope, but that guy was just plain nuts. (Key word: was. He's dead now.)
Posted by: Tenebras
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September 1, 2010 9:58 PM
Ya know, I'm pretty misanthropic myself, but this guy was batshit fucking stupid.
I agree that the world would be better off with a few billion less of us (although it would be pretty painful to get to that point since our current infrastructures depend on having ridiculous amounts of people,) and that the idea that it's ok to have a billion fucking children should be ridiculed into the dirt. I just know from history that television programs, violence, and screaming incoherently at people aren't going to do the trick.
Posted by: Sastra
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September 1, 2010 10:03 PM
A militant pacifist?
Had Lee been part of an actual organization devoted to his "agenda" there would probably be fallout. As it is, my guess is that the general public is far too used to the rambling loner schizophrenic to conclude that there's likely to be a serious political lesson to be drawn here. As for the Discovery Institute and its ilk, they'll draw object lessons against "Darwinism" over serial jaywalking. Nobody cares.
For some reason, that little phrase "and, of course, the squirrels" made me picture a lonely little figure in a trenchcoat stuffed with bombs, sitting on his usual park bench with a bag of peanuts, waiting for his friends to scamper up. Sad.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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September 1, 2010 10:09 PM
Fox News:
Not even trying to be subtle. Last line:
Posted by: areyoulistening
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September 1, 2010 10:14 PM
I was about to mention how the first result on Google was Faux News, but looks like Feynmaniac beat me to it. Damn.
Posted by: melissa.b.elliott
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September 1, 2010 10:17 PM
It's a tragedy that his plans weren't fortuitously discovered ahead of time, so that he could be taken to a hospital BEFORE he strapped a bomb to his chest and forced the police to shoot him. I was watching all of this as it unfolded live, and I was so relieved to hear that the only victim he made was himself.
My hunch is that he was planning to blow himself up all along, and took the hostages to make sure the media would be paying attention. A martyr in his own mind.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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September 1, 2010 10:19 PM
Eh, they can use this all they want. We have evolving killer whales on our side.
Posted by: skeptifem
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September 1, 2010 10:25 PM
This post is notably devoid of said counterspin strategy. Are you going to take your own advice?
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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September 1, 2010 10:50 PM
Heh heh - that's it! The Disco-tute have convinced themselves that Darwin is lurking around still, like the resurrected Rasputin in "HellBoy"! ...and the 'tute is actually the 'Bureau'!
Of course - they're just running around in their sofa-cushion 'fort', they have cardboard logos over the bat-sign on their plastic utility belts, and their superhero shoulderpads are made out of old ice-cream containers...
That's a fun mental image :)
Posted by: areyoulistening
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September 1, 2010 11:15 PM
#219:
Only because a ridiculously small amount of those people control a ridiculously large amount of the wealth and consider any use of said money that does not result in personal gain to be robbery.
Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe
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September 1, 2010 11:15 PM
I was thinking exactly the same thing. *sigh* no, it really really isn't, not least because the rest of the world breeds more than enough. any perceived or real "demographic winter" problems could be solved by less xenophobia in lawmaking. yup, millions and millions of raccoons, living on mutant corn gone wild... you forgot anti-military; but hey, at least he didn't demand universal healthcare... you seem to operate under the illusion that they'll let you finish a sentence. all-purpose kook is more like it. Though, I admit I didn't read his "demands" that far down... now I'm going to have to go back and read more *whinge* put me in line for that gay sex with Brownian, I think I'm in lovePosted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe
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September 1, 2010 11:20 PM
that, plus a consumerist service economy. we actually have a global labor glut, so it's not like everything that needs to be done couldn't get done withe fewer people; they'd have to be well educated and mobile people though.Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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September 1, 2010 11:48 PM
Which, ironically, might have been the only demand that could have helped him.
Posted by: SonicScrewdriver
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September 2, 2010 1:55 AM
Although once a raving Quinn fanatic myself, any kind of identifying with Lee hits a big fat brick wall when he's waving a gun and threatening people with explosives. Even considering his obvious mental health issues, any sympathy I would have had for his empty corpse was expunged the moment he put 'his message' over people's lives.
He shoulda listened closer to the big ape, and gotten himself the help he needed. Mental health care isn't a one way street.
Also, to poster 81, what's with the hate on biological parents? It's the idiots that keep their unplanned, unwanted children that are the real problem. So many people who give their kid up for adoption are making a selfless sacrifice to give that child the possibility of a really good life. Show some love, eh?
Posted by: iasasai
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September 2, 2010 2:54 AM
Flaming crazy aside, I must admit to liking the phrase "pollution babies". Human population IS a problem, far more than it is a solution. Not that I have any non-crazy bright ideas on fixing it...
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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September 2, 2010 8:59 AM
Ok so, Plait has one good example for DBaD now.
Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death
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September 2, 2010 10:30 AM
Physicist
Well aren't you just so provocative. Here's a hint: for people who aren't sociopaths, knowing someone was killed does not incite them to gloat. It's highly likely that the hostages will have their trauma compounded because it ended this way. It's doubtful that they'll all be jumping up and down, bumping chests, and screaming, "Take THAT, motherfucker!" Death is scary and sad, especially violent death, even when it happens to someone who was threatening you. They'll be celebrating that they are still alive, but I don't think they'll be celebrating that he is dead. That's reserved for heartless fuckwits far removed from the actual situation, such as yourself.
My time "working" with the bomb squad indicates that they're quite all right with that one. But snipers can be so damn literal.
Posted by: rrpostal
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September 2, 2010 8:12 PM
I found his problem. Right at the end of the article it says he doesn't believe in god. I'll give you 3 guesses where I read that?
Posted by: bombria
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September 2, 2010 8:32 PM
I read most of Daniel Quinn's material, including "MY ISHMAEL" when I was exploring things post-fundamentalist deconversion. I just re-read the pages referenced and all I can say is that there is are some truths (government impedes progress, human inventiveness), but the solution in these pages, like in much of Quinn's writing is reverting to tribalism and hunter-gatherer living where the food supply is not "under lock and key". Quinn, in subsequent books, turns to animism and arguments that basically speak from the "older is better" school. It's new age philosophy dressed up in well written prose. But nobody ever takes dreamy idealism and turns it into violent manifestos, right?
Posted by: danielm
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September 3, 2010 11:56 AM
Wow, it's not often you get to see somebody go quite that bug-nuts loony. The US government being behind some creepy mind-control system, sure (hello, MKULTRA). Zionists bent on simply owning the world, well yeah. Religious apologists and some shirty long-range plan to convert or die - why not...but *this* sort of bug-nuts is something else. the Discovery channel? really? Thems your prospective New World Order-brewing reptilian overlords?
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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September 3, 2010 12:03 PM
Government also aids progress, often in massively funded ways that would be almost impossible otherwise. Spouse & I recently drove through the Palliser Triangle in the Canadian Prairies, an area that early surveyors (e.g. Palliser) concluded was unsuitable for agriculture, being a semi-arid extension of the Great American Desert. Irrigation projects starting in the 1880s have made it one of the world's breadbaskets.
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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September 3, 2010 12:40 PM
Raven, great idea but for maximum accessibility I think we should drop these stories into Wikipedia with a Category of Christian mass murderers (a subcategory of Christian murderers, maybe, itself a category of notorious murderers).
You dig them up with news or better links and I'll put them into Wikipedia.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/sM_Gcix31tU34ZhN5ibQPE8k9iNp#04998
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September 4, 2010 9:42 AM
@Right-wing religious nutbags in general:
The fact that James Lee is a self-proclaimed atheist and mentions Darwin in his manifesto does not nullify the fact that James Lee was also created by your God. :-)
Jschmeau