Pharyngula

Posted by: A Bad Idea (♀) | October 15, 2010 12:15 PM

Hi guys. Just stopping by to rant about how my grandmother, who lives in a 97% white town with an average family income of $105,000, thinks that Obama hates America and that the economy problems were deliberately engineered to facilitate a socialist takeover when everything collapses.

Where do I write to have her social security checks and health insurance cancelled?

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | October 15, 2010 12:31 PM

Well this has been an enjoyable week in Montreal. Will be leaving tomorrow morning early, need to figure out the proper way to write a 'thank you for your service' for housekeeping so they know the money on the table is a tip for them.

@Brownian:

Agreed, best movie ever.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 12:34 PM

Brownian (@previous):

Err, I have a relatively long tongue.

Do you also play bass and wear face-covering black and white greasepaint? Have you given a shocking interview to Terry Gross on Fresh Air?

;^)

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 12:45 PM

Ol'Greg (@6):

Length is nothing, it's articulation that matters.

Whether length matters to the tonguee, I have no standing to comment on; it does matter to the tonguer, in terms of how much you have to stretch and strain to reach some (but obviously not all) of the good spots. </TMI>

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 12:50 PM

. . . something about the Catholic mass.

Is our Master^TM implying that Catholics are fat gravitationally enhanced?

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 12:55 PM

Do you also play bass and wear face-covering black and white greasepaint?

Yes to the former (though not well); no the latter. And really, it's not Gene Simmons' tongue that's his largest appendage.

It's his ego.

Length is nothing, it's articulation that matters.

Whether length matters to the tonguee, I have no standing to comment on; it does matter to the tonguer, in terms of how much you have to stretch and strain to reach some (but obviously not all) of the good spots.

In my experience, individual preferences vary. I find that relying on only one appendage to do the job is less than efficient, and provides less-than-satisfactory results.

And whether you can clean a plate with it.

I've heard many a colourful metaphor to describe certain activities, but cleaning a plate is a new one to me.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 1:00 PM

In unrelated news, this is what a friend of mine smuggled out of Peru in his kidney.

From his description of the unpacking process, I'm sticking with Samsonite.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 15, 2010 1:03 PM

Oh, I sort of has a sad.
I just found out that one of the first feminist blogs I started reading on the internet is closing its doors. Heck, one of the first blogs I read, period. I think it went something like Lileks (don't judge me!), BitchPhD, PZ, Shakespeare's sister, Feministe, Feministing. I haven't read BitchPhD in a few years for a lot of reasons, but it's a bit of a shame that it's going. Some of the posts may be archived elsewhere, but it was her post on abortion where I could actually feel the gears of my brain halting and making a 180 on the topic as I read it.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 15, 2010 1:04 PM

Shorter me on New York:

It's absurdism at its best. The inner-workings of the state government would be incredibly funny if it weren't so sad.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 1:05 PM

Brownian:

I find that relying on only one appendage to do the job is less than efficient, and provides less-than-satisfactory results.

True enough... but the other appendages don't have taste buds. Satisfaction cuts both ways (or at least ought to), after all!

How long can we go on talking so coyly about... erm, plate cleaning, I wonder?

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 1:11 PM

Benjamin:

Congratulations on your continuing success as you throw off the chains of mass.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 15, 2010 1:12 PM

And whether you can clean a plate with it.

Is that what it's called now.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 1:14 PM

And I just realized that my comment regarding licking home plate clean works in a non-baseball context as well. I may be slow, but sometimes I'm not too quick.

Go clean home plate with your tongue does have a nice prurient meaning.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 15, 2010 1:15 PM

W00t! Go, Benjamin!

I've heard many a colourful metaphor to describe certain activities, but cleaning a plate is a new one to me.

Posted by: Randomfactor | October 15, 2010 1:16 PM

Where do I write to have her social security checks and health insurance cancelled?

http://www.gop.com/

Posted by: llewelly | October 15, 2010 1:19 PM

Bill Dauphin, OM | October 15, 2010 1:05 PM:

How long can we go on talking so coyly about... erm, plate cleaning, I wonder?

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 1:24 PM

llewelly (@32):

I have been sexually inactive for about 15 years, and do not have unusual tongue length..., so I am really only talking about plate cleaning.

Well, I'm talking about <wink>plate cleaning</wink>, but for a variety of reasons, <TMI>I'm discussing it mostly from memory</TMI>.

My memories, however, are fairly clear in this particular instance.

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | October 15, 2010 1:33 PM

My tongue, it so happens, is rather long and highly flexible if anyone is interested.

lol

Posted by: Nakarti | October 15, 2010 1:37 PM

And in case it doesn't like that, This one would have been better.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 1:39 PM

Going under your own steam is much less embarrassing than going because a friend had to call 911 (999 in your case) and dump you in an ambulance.

Yep. Though in my case, the friend in question was a med student (now a psychiatrist) and recognised enough to intervene before ambulances needed to be called.

And pourboire is much superior to 'tip', unless the person you're thanking for the service happens to be a teetotaller.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 15, 2010 1:50 PM

LanguageLog just recommended YourMometer.

It would seem PeeZed has already found it.

(Grumpy artist, though.)

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 2:00 PM

Ol'Greg:

My tongue, it so happens, is rather long and highly flexible if anyone is interested.

What sane person could fail to be interested in that? My own interest, though, is necessarily only theoretical.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | October 15, 2010 2:11 PM

Left-overs:

Now you've got me noticing bacon references. Sheesh.

*sound of labored breathing* Come over to the Pork Side. They've got cookies, but we've got bacon.
-
Costume mash-up:

I'm somewhat dismayed to realise so many people's internal lives seem to consist of short-skirted nurse, short-skirted flight attendant, short-skirted monster, short-skirted vampire, short-skirted kitty-cat, short-skirted...

ghost wearing a parka, monster wearing a parka, pirate wearing a parka, devil wearing a parka, etc.

Interesting juxtaposition.

...short-skirted nurse wearing a parka, short-shirted flight attendant wearing a parka, short-skirted monster wearing a parka, short-skirted vampire wearing a parka....
-

Hands up those who like noisy fucking neighbors, who hold raves at 2am on a fucking friday morning, and who smoke enough hash to fill the apartments of those who live next to them?

*arms folded*

*arms also folded*
I lived for about 6 months in KC on the 2nd floor of an old 2-story brick building that had been converted to upstairs and downstairs apartments, but the vents intended to let warm air rise and heat the upper floor were left open. They had parties like this. My sister was trippin', but I could barely breathe. (Allergies.)

A few months after we moved, the downstairs was favored with a police raid, battering ram at the front door and all, for drug dealing. I was just ever so happy to have missed it.
-

Minds--how the fuck do they work?

About as well as any other kludge?
-

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | October 15, 2010 2:20 PM

MrFire has my next molly vote.

Posted by: Alan B | October 15, 2010 2:31 PM

#43 Menyambal

When I got him to a vet, it turned out to be diabetes.

I am not a doctor. And cats and human beings are not the same.

(2 blinding glimpses of the obvious)

However, let's just think about diabetes. Long term, untreated type 2 diabetes can result in blindness and gangrene (amongst other things but that will do for a start).

I can't tell if this is your problem - nor can you!

Get thee to a nunnery ...

Get thee to a doctor.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 2:35 PM

Jules:

*raises hand*

I knew all along you were a sane person! ;^)

MrFire for president!

Bite your (dare I mention it?) tongue! Don't wish that on him! Ol'Greg's idea (Mollification) will be ever so much more pleasant for him.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 15, 2010 2:39 PM

At the same time, I believe the government should have the power of death over you, and I supported all 185 executions this year, most of them on dark-skinned criminals.

(Not to mention that we don't need all that darn "forensic evidence" and "due process" nonsense... the defendant is bound to have done something wrong, after all. Especially if he's poor, from an ethnic minority, or not-really-our-kind-of-people. In the immortal words of George W. Bush... "I don't think we've ever put a guilty... I mean, innocent person to death in the State of Texas.")

And don't forget...

"I'm fighting gun control laws because I believe in personal liberty and the Bill of Rights. That's why I supported the Bush administration's initiative to lock up those darn foreign-looking folks indefinitely without trial, and torture them until they admit to being terrorists."

"I support prayer in schools and tax breaks for churches because I believe in the freedom to worship God however you choose. That's why I don't want those scary Muslims to be allowed to build mosques within 2,000 miles of Ground Zero."

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 15, 2010 2:40 PM

My tongue, it so happens, is rather long and highly flexible if anyone is interested.

*giggles coyly*

;-)

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 15, 2010 2:51 PM

Welcome Ruddy Oaky stranger.

Hope you'll feel at home here in our little corner of the Internet. See Nerd for the grog, and never mind the Walton - he's mostly housetrained; he only leaves the occasional trail of sticky apologies now.

--o--

Walton,

Get the frig out of the frigging Thread and go frigging see a frigging doctor.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | October 15, 2010 2:52 PM

Myers-Briggs has substantial defects, and is mostly irrelevant.

*shrug*
Except when it's not. The linked article is pretty crappy.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 15, 2010 2:59 PM

Walton,

Get the frig out of the frigging Thread and go frigging see a frigging doctor.

*sigh* OK... I will. I promise. I'll book an appointment as soon as I can.

(Though it will have to wait till Monday now: the out-of-hours service is only for emergencies.)

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | October 15, 2010 3:09 PM

*hug* for SteveV, and *high five* for Benjamin.
-
As linked by the Bad Astronomer: A Handy Alternative Therapy Flowchart. There are lols.
-

*sigh* OK... I will. I promise. I'll book an appointment as soon as I can.

See that you do, young man! And don't think we won't follow this up!

Posted by: Menyambal: Making sambal (it isn't dragon magic). | October 15, 2010 3:14 PM

*sigh* OK... I will. I promise. I'll book an appointment as soon as I can.

That's a good little kitty-cat.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 3:14 PM

*sigh* OK... I will. I promise. I'll book an appointment as soon as I can.

Photos, or it didn't happen.

What?

Not appropriate there?

Are you sure?

Posted by: crowepps | October 15, 2010 3:17 PM

#62 - THANK YOU, Walton. I'm worrying about you. Lots of us are worrying about you. We really appreciate it!

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | October 15, 2010 3:18 PM

Randomfactor:

"WAH! You're trampling on my right to trample on people's rights!"

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 3:18 PM

Benjamin:

Enjoy. Epcot is my favourite Disney concoction.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 15, 2010 3:21 PM

Except when it's not. The linked article is pretty crappy.

Do you have more info? This is one of those things I haven't been able to get a good feel for. I've taken the test a few times, and it seems like a decent overview of some of my general personality traits (e.g., concrete thinker), but I'm aware that I might think that about any number of personality descriptions.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 15, 2010 3:29 PM

I don't think I could be more proud of her.

She sounds like a very bright and compassionate young woman.

Walton
Thank you for taking the advice of the horde. We'll all rest easier Tuesday after you've reported back with confirmation that you attended your appointment.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 15, 2010 3:37 PM

Aaarrrggghhh. Warning... steaming pile of outright lies, distortions and general bullshit approaching. Do not click the link if you suffer from stress, high blood pressure, or frequent headdesk-induced cranial injuries.

"Who DOES get locked up?" asks Daily Mail.

With the greatest of cordiality, I would like to invite the entire Mail editorial team to go and fuck themselves sideways with a decaying porcupine.

(For the edification of non-Brits: the Daily Mail is approximately the UK equivalent of Fox News, albeit in print form. It's the voice of the crazed authoritarian right, and typically devotes its front pages to affirming its readers' belief that their [jobs/homes/daughters/gerbils/traditional values] are constantly being [stolen/eaten/undermined] by [immigrants/Muslims/criminals/asylum seekers/gypsies/foreign people]. Not to mention actively promoting misogyny, homophobia, and the cancer-scare-of-the-week.)

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 3:45 PM

Well... um... I'm sure I could take a photograph of myself being examined by a doctor if you like.

Yes, please. Especially if it's a testicular cancer exam.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 15, 2010 3:50 PM

Walton (@80):

Playing your little right-wing Mad Lib, I can't help wondering... are gerbils halal? Are daughters?

<GrinningRunningAndDucking>

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 3:53 PM

That is because they have centered their lives around Jesus Christ, rather than their sexual identity.

Teen Boy 1: "I keep getting harassed."
Teen Boy 2: "Really? Why?"
Teen Boy 1: "Because I'm totally in love with another man."
Teen Boy 2: "Really? I didn't know you were gay."
Teen Boy 1: "Gay? Don't be silly. I'm a Christian. Wanna go to church and ogle the crucifixes with me?"

Posted by: crowepps | October 15, 2010 3:59 PM

Belated reply to yesterday - "red pepper glaze"

The problem was likely caused by doubling the recipe. I don't know why, but that's my experience. This can be fixed!! This fix is from Cooperative Extension.

Per EACH CUP of runny jam, mix 1 tablespoon water, 1.5 teaspoon powdered pectin. Bring just this to a boil while stirring constantly. Add 2 tablespoons sugar and one cup runny jam, bring to a full rolling boil over high heat. Boil for ½ minute. You can fix a MAXIMUM of 8 cups of jam at a time.

Or you could do the other thing - just relabel it 'red pepper syrup'!

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 15, 2010 4:06 PM

Bill D,
I strongly suspect that someone would let you know if you were doing it wrong and I am quite sure that there is no 'right way.' I guess I just find myself surprised to hear anyone remark on tongue length.

Posted by: Katharine | October 15, 2010 4:10 PM

Cat-lickers are scary. They're basically Quiverfull lite.

I'm not kidding. Apparently in addition to their bizarre anti-choice anti-contraception position, they discourage abstinence as birth control among married people.

Posted by: Ewan R | October 15, 2010 4:16 PM

Any suggestions for the best way to kill a statistician? I'm a little ambivalent about setting them on fire as I prefer to use that method for direct colleagues rather than number crunchers.

Just spent the whole bloody day trying to get a database to work properly with the numbers I'd been given (it does all kinds of nifty internal calculations involved in making pretty graphs and generally reducing my work load) and nothing worked. Gets to 2:30pm and I decide to have a closer look - a good 25% of the data is garbage (well not really, a single way of looking at the data appears to have been pasted into the wrong column, which makes my graphs garbage - lower confidence limits for data points being an order of magnitude higher than the mean isn't remotely possible afaik)

I really must have more confidence in the tangled webs of "programming" that I weave - if only because unweaving them gives me a headache (given that they're 95% gibberish and work only by accident)

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 4:24 PM

Walton:

See your doctor.

And yes, sex is strange, but wonderful.

------------

Hallowe'en joke:

Why couldn't the skeleton blow his nose? He didn't have any tissue.

------------

Saw a bumper sticker on the drive home: "95.9% of women regret their abortion!" Can you say brown statistics?

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 15, 2010 4:29 PM

As appropriate as the Bechdel test is for movies, it needs some serious adaptation for the games industry. Yes, most games fail the movies-oriented Bechdel test, primarily on the second prong: "... who talk to each other..." Of course the women don't talk to each other. Often, the men don't talk to each other, either, except for grunts, taunts, or wisecracks.

It works for movies, because movies (with the possible exception of "River Tam Beats Up Everyone") are primarily talking. But very little talking happens in many games, and virtually all of it within cutscenes.

So, dismissing a game out of hand because the female characters don't talk to each other, while ignoring the fact that the male characters don't talk to each other either, feels a bit disingenuous, and weakens the (very significant) point.

Um, I play games with a LOT of talking. Heck, even my action games, like Viewtiful Joe and Devil May Cry, have talking. I don't think I've played a game with no talking in a very long time, if we excuse the two games where everyone is SPECIFICALLY mute. Even Brofests like Halo have talking. What games are *YOU* playing that the Bechdel test would fail if you substituted every instance of "Women" with "Men"? Mind, I'm familiar with a fair number, but they're mostly casual games, and i think you're doing women a serious disservice by claiming that the industry can't stand to use the bechdel test, or more precisely, a variant thereof.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | October 15, 2010 4:34 PM

Why couldn't the skeleton blow his nose? He didn't have any tissue.

But bone itself is a type of connective tissue. At least it is in a living animal. I suppose an automotile skeleton could be made of bones that were dried out and contain no living tissue, but then, no tissues no muscles: what is moving the bones?

I'm kind of skeptical about the whole moving-skeleton thing. I thought the ones in Sinbad looked pretty fake.
e.g., 1:03
(but check out the Cobra Woman...hot!)

Posted by: DominEditrix | October 15, 2010 4:37 PM

A lawyer without a will.

Hell, I've dealt with wills lawyers wrote out by hand for themselves that cost $$$ to probate because they were peppered with precatory language and had to be interpreted and approved by the court. Never, never write 'I hope my Executor will do X'. And never, ever leave someone a dollar [or its equivalent]. Not even in the spirit of disdain, because they won't acknowledge receipt thereof, and the ensuing paperwork is annoying.

Walton, just what do you eat these days? Are you balancing your diet correctly? Are you getting enough vitamins? A lack of Vitamin D can cause depression; lack of B12 can cause anaemia. This is why you need to see a doctor - you may be healthy as a horse, and the doctor can confirm it - or you may simply need some dietary supplements/nutrition advice.

Don't give the Pharyngulites cause to hire a large man to throw you over his shoulder and take you forcibly to the nearest physician.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 4:39 PM

(((Girl)))'s boyfriend is home from college for the weekend. He had to come home early to get his rabies shot*. He also had his hair cut. I wonder how much it would cost to get him neutered?

* He's going to school to become of vet tech.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 15, 2010 4:42 PM

Crowepps:

Yah. I wonder if it is actually from a survey (and not pulled out of a right-wing asshole) and, if so, just how the question was phrased?

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 4:46 PM

There is a big difference between 'I regret that I had an abortion' and 'I regret that I HAD to have an abortion.'

Yup. Unfortunately, "95.9% of women who've had abortions regret that the condom broke but are still damn glad they didn't have to have the baby at that time!" doesn't make for a bumper sticker short enough that conservatives can read it without having to lie down for a nap with Mr. Blankie halfway through.

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy | October 15, 2010 4:51 PM

"what is moving the bones? "

Robotics.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 4:54 PM

"what is moving the bones?"

Robotics.

I think you meant hydraulics, Rey.

Posted by: Ichthyic | October 15, 2010 4:57 PM

Saw a bumper sticker on the drive home: "95.9% of women regret their abortion!"

I saw a bumper sticker that said:

"Will lie for Jesus!"

not sure exactly how to interpret that.

(I'm also lying - I never saw that bumper sticker)

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau | October 15, 2010 4:57 PM

95.9% is a very suspicious number.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 5:04 PM

It's really just a handy excuse to talk dirty. And besides... Brownian started it!!</ElementarySchoolPlayground>

;^)

Really, Bill: I expected more from you. You of all people should know that I never stop it.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 15, 2010 5:09 PM

Bill D, Brownian,
Ok, that is fair enough. I got sucked in too.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 5:12 PM

Ok, that is fair enough. I got sucked in too.

You mean licked in.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 15, 2010 5:17 PM

Don't underestimate the power of suction.
Oh, wait, you wouldn't.

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 5:27 PM

Fuck, but I especially hate Tone Trolls who, rather than bringing up topic or theme for discussion, loudly criticise the fact that that discussion isn't already proceeding without them.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 15, 2010 5:37 PM

Just a quick note to say that David MF

What? What? *biting nails in anticipation*

heatherly, you master of suspense, you.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 15, 2010 5:47 PM

areyoulistening,
Everything that I sell went up 7% to the customer on July 1st. Ouch.

Posted by: MrFire | October 15, 2010 5:56 PM

Why Dhorvath, I do believe you're trying to pick a fight.

If I did care, I might say "It's appropriate we're talking about 'grass', since I want you to GET OFF MY LAWN!"

But see, those same fumes prevent me from caring about anything right now.

Posted by: Draken | October 15, 2010 6:00 PM

Sudden weight loss is a symptom that should be checked out by a doctor

...unless you've been teleported to the moon.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 15, 2010 6:05 PM

I think I missed something - what does MFM stand for?

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 15, 2010 6:07 PM

Or, I guess, FM, since the M is last initial?

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 15, 2010 6:11 PM

Rinderpest is eliminated.

Science: it works.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 15, 2010 6:21 PM

Dhorvath #130:

areyoulistening,
Everything that I sell went up 7% to the customer on July 1st. Ouch.

I do, however, want Campbell out of office. Ever since he got elected he has been slowly destroying this province -- and we keep re-electing him because the NDP can't get their heads out of their asses and pick a competent leader.

From this I'm judging that you live in BC?

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 6:22 PM

Rinderpest is eliminated.

Science: it works.

But is that a good thing? What happens in twenty years when future cows who don't remember the plague of rinderpest stop getting vaccinated out of complacency and misinformation?

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 15, 2010 6:27 PM

What happens in twenty years when future cows who don't remember the plague of rinderpest stop getting vaccinated out of complacency and misinformation?

Led by Jenny Moocarthy?

Posted by: llewelly | October 15, 2010 6:42 PM

chgo_liz | October 15, 2010 6:22 PM:

Walton @ #71:

Well... um... I'm sure I could take a photograph of myself being examined by a doctor if you like. Whatever floats your boat. :-p

You got that emoticon right: inquiring minds want to know what range you've got when s/he asks you to stick out your tongue and go AHHHHHH.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 15, 2010 6:43 PM

areyoulistening,
I am in Vic, I could probably get close enough to slap the back Campbell's wrist, but it wouldn't do any good.

Harmonizing the taxes really has more to do with the Federal government keeping tabs on how the province is doing. Now all collection goes through the feds and then gets allocated to the province. It is also a streamlined system, everything gets taxed the same way. Well, nearly, but the exceptions are considerably fewer under the HST than they were under the old PST regulations.

I sell bikes, helmets, lights, etc. Under PST those were tax exempt as a green transportation alternative. Now I just charge 12% on everything, not such a big deal when looking at my accesories, but the effect on my bike sales is that people look a model lower and it has directly impacted my bottom line.

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan | October 15, 2010 6:48 PM

Gah, two weeks of workplace insanity has now been halted by the weekend. Although next week may be just more of the same. WTF, man? Did someone put something in the water? Hopefully it will die down before Christmas.

All this talk about licking got me a bit horny, although now the cold has taken care of that. Now I'm just feeling all stabby and shit.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 15, 2010 6:59 PM

Dhorvath: Sucks to hear. I live in Surrey, so I'm nowhere near as lucky as you.

The worst bit of it is that I've outright given up on pretty much every media outlet - both newspapers as well as all of our television news seem to have become megaphones for the Liberal Party =/

Posted by: llewelly | October 15, 2010 7:12 PM

'Tis Himself, OM | October 15, 2010 7:03 PM:

You're all too sweet and innocent to be forced to wear out your mouse wheels skipping past another lesson in the dismal science.

Note: It is "dismal" primarily because a large proportion of important financial decisions have been placed in the hands of people who failed to approach economics as a science, and instead approached it as a religion. (I'm sure you don't need to be told that, but you do need to know some of your readers have that view.)

Note 2: No wheel on my mouse. Hate the damn things.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 15, 2010 7:20 PM

Note: It is "dismal" primarily because a large proportion of important financial decisions have been placed in the hands of people who failed to approach economics as a science, and instead approached it as a religion.

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 15, 2010 7:26 PM

areyoulistening, not really its a "I got mine and now I want yours" if you run out of majik pixie dust papers that you swear are worth cold hard cash to sell, you have to come up with something else fast or the churning stops. If the churning stops the great unwashed see very clearly that all of the goodies disappeared eons ago. We live in an economy built on false promises and the profits thereof

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 15, 2010 7:34 PM

Crap, didn't mean to hit submit:

When your protagonist is female¹, that part of the test is passed with flying colors.

¹Especially in games where you get to pick your gender: Mass Effect, Fable, Fallout, etc etc.

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 15, 2010 7:43 PM

areyoulistening you better buy a tall one not perched on the various fault lines

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | October 15, 2010 8:05 PM

Rutee:

"A variant thereof" is precisely the aspect I was addressing. The narrator of the video I linked uses the Bechdel test without modification, with this sort of context: "How many games can you name that have two or more women talking to each other? Not many, huh?" while completely ignoring that not too many games have meaningful dialogue between men (with the exception of RPGs, and they don't count because, well, they just don't, okay?).

A lot of the problem is the combat setting. Most soldiers are still men. Let's not even point out historical games, when all soldiers were men, Sweet Pollies Oliver notwithstanding.

(Does it count as "talking about a man" if the man in question is the goddamn Batman?)

That being said, he does point out that the test needs to be adjusted for games. (Specifically, he mentions "has a playable female character" as a possible addition.)

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 8:18 PM

Why have I not heard of Tim Wise before?

(Besides being too busy making oblique references to cunnilingus, I mean.)

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 15, 2010 8:31 PM

Er, comparative religion, not comparative literature. There's a host of such errors. oh well, lack of proofreading, ho!

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites | October 15, 2010 8:46 PM

ATHEISTS: If there is no oxygen in space, how can sun burn? Christians 1 Atheists 0

Hmm, they may have a point. Let me cite scripture:

Then spake Jesus to the secular school board, and to his disciples,
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye omit the oxygen of the dark heavens, yet this ought ye not to omit.
Thou blind Pharisee, see the burning sun, that the wouldst by your reason be extinguished, as the candle is extinguished as a beaker is placed upon it, or wouldst if thou tithed sufficiently to fund thy middle school science labs.

Looks like they got us, guys.

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | October 15, 2010 9:22 PM

Rutee:

Yeah, I see your point. I guess I didn't take the breadth of the medium into account before climbing onto my soapbox.

What I think I was trying to say in the first place is along the lines of ODS's clarification: if your playable character is male (whether by choice or not), then virtually every game will fail the second prong of the Bechdel test, because NPCs rarely talk to each other.

My total experience with the Halo series is a few dozen rounds of multiplayer in the Reach beta, plus getting lost at the very beginning of the first game. I still hold that it isn't possible for a WWI/WWII/Korea/Vietnam-themed game to pass the Bechdel test in a meaningful way.

Also, we aren't the first to consider this:

Instead, let’s simplify it and say that the female characters must be able to interact with one another as the male characters do. If it’s a fighting game, that means playable female combatants. If it’s a shooter, there should be ladies shooting at each other. If it’s a dialogue-heavy game (written or spoken), then they should talk.

Sound fair? (I'm asking. It sounds fair to me, but I have a Y chromosome, so I'm not the best judge of this.)

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | October 15, 2010 9:30 PM

BG: So far behind in Teh Endless...congrats on your success.

Posted by: cirev | October 15, 2010 9:36 PM

But still, as I said, you never know with these people.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | October 15, 2010 9:53 PM

Yesterday I had the titanium implant put in where the oral surgeon removed a dead tooth back in July. Eventually, my regular dentist will put a crown on the implant, with a change of post first, likely early next year. For those of you possibly facing the procedure, the implantation, as the oral surgeon reported, is less painful than the extraction. Put I have been distracted by this procedure this week, it being an unknown.

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) | October 15, 2010 10:13 PM

Don't give the Pharyngulites cause to hire a large man to throw you over his shoulder and take you forcibly to the nearest physician.

I was thinking maybe something more like hiring a large man to stuff him into a large burlap sack and drag him off to the Dr.; it might be slightly less attention-getting. A bit of duct tape across the mouth might help, too.
-

[...]what is moving the bones?

The demon that is possessing them. Duh! :)
-

What happens in twenty years when future cows who don't remember the plague of rinderpest stop getting vaccinated out of complacency and misinformation?

What I wonder is, will it be like the unexpected side-effects of ceasing to vaccinate for smallpox? Smallpox is to monkeypox as rinderpest is to ???
-
Aren't the islands in the South Pacific pretty much all volcanic?
-

Posted by: A Bad Idea (♀) | October 15, 2010 10:20 PM

I'm in for a penny on the "buy our own country" idea, guys.

But I demand some sort of noble title for myself and my future children.

Posted by: cirev | October 15, 2010 10:22 PM

Just came to mind, do any of you have some recommendation on books about fungus? I'm interested in fungus, been long time.

And I don't mean books about mushroom, but about the biology of fungus and such...

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 15, 2010 11:07 PM

melissa,
Class privilege would be one of the things people hope to leave behind. You can have a title, but it can't mean anything.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | October 15, 2010 11:37 PM

Walton @159 - Don't make me come over there. The lessons won't be easy. Or cheap.

Posted by: Patricia, OM | October 15, 2010 11:45 PM

heatherly - WAH! I am sooo jealous.

If you get a chance, and you haven't seen them yet, check out the Jacob breed of sheep, they are just too cool.

Posted by: llewelly | October 16, 2010 12:06 AM

34jlg34 | October 15, 2010 10:11 PM:

Section 225 of the Queensland Criminal Code ('Offenses Against Morality'): Any woman who, with intent to procure her own miscarriage, whether she is or is not with child, unlawfully administers to herself any poison or other noxious thing, or uses any force of any kind, or uses any other means whatever, or permits any such thing or means to be administered or used to her, is guilty of a crime, and is liable to imprisonment for 7 years.

Posted by: David Marjanović | October 16, 2010 12:10 AM

Good point.

But if I may take the analogy further (too far, I'm sure), I'd bet even David Marjanović has to readjust his position in relation to the plate in order to clean it all.

Obviously, I have no experience on the... other side of the analogy, and I don't plan on getting any within the foreseeable future.

And now that I have your attention...

apprecié

Apprécié. Though there's nothing it could be confused with.

Apparently in addition to their bizarre anti-choice anti-contraception position, [Catholics] discourage abstinence as birth control among married people.

I don't know (and I was raised Catholic). What I do know is that the complicated and failure-prone calendar method is explicitly allowed – because, the religion teacher said, it can't be controlled as easily as access to condoms. That's how little even the religion teachers agreed with church dogma 15 years ago.

Also, DMFM is licking his fingers.

Brazen lie. I vacuumed chip crumbs off of them. It's called suction feeding. There's a vast amount of literature on it; Google Scholar is your friend.

Rinderpest is eliminated.

Science: it works.

<thumbs up>

I'll book an appointment on Monday. I promise. :-)

That's good, because DaughterSpawn showed me your Facebook picture. It's scary. I look like someone with no storage fat. You look like someone with no storage fat and almost no structural fat either – your eyes haven't sunk in just yet, but it's still frightening how emaciated you look.

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for an evening; set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"--Terry Pratchett.

So... priceless...

No wheel on my mouse. Hate the damn things.

o_O
O.o

Please explain.

the goddamn Batman

ROTFL!!! Soon, soon I shall be aware of all Internet traditions.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 16, 2010 12:50 AM

Atheists can't complain when the Pope comes to the UK, but apparently it's ok for the Pope to stop President Sarkozy bringing his wife Carla Bruni to the Vatican.

Wouldn't want the holy scepter standing to attention during the consultation, would he.

Posted by: Frankosaurus, Cupcake of Death | October 16, 2010 1:06 AM

"What barbaric legislation. "

I agree, rather than imprisonment, she should be given a parade.

Posted by: Frankosaurus, Cupcake of Death | October 16, 2010 1:21 AM

this is a funny quotation i found

"Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what's for lunch."
Orson Welles

Posted by: 34jlg34 | October 16, 2010 1:37 AM

Rorschash,

another innernets for you

Posted by: Rorschach | October 16, 2010 1:43 AM

Pharynguloids to the rescue:

Can anyone get their hands on the fulltext of this article and send it to me at terminate111 at hot?

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 2:00 AM

I'm like, 80% sure that didn't happen.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 16, 2010 2:17 AM

blogwhoring alert newsflash :

The sceptics guide to canonization, or how to survive the Mackillop madness

(You see, we're going to have a saint tomorrow !)

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | October 16, 2010 3:29 AM

llewelly, yes barbaric, and that was indeed the law of 1899. But note the useful keywords: "unlawfully" and "noxious". The former has, for a very long time now, exempted medical D&C (lawful) and the latter has just now been shown in case law to exempt RU-486 (not noxious). Heh. It should be changed, but at least now it's toothless.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 16, 2010 4:23 AM

Can anyone get their hands on the fulltext of this article and send it to me at terminate111 at hot?

I've sent it to you... I think it's the right thing, but it only seems to be three pages long (remarkably short for a journal article), so let me know if I've sent you the wrong file.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 16, 2010 4:38 AM

Thanks Walton, that one will do nicely...;)

They go through some bullshit class and get the charge taken off their records while the girls who get pimped out are pretty much fucked up for their whole lives

Skeptifem, you have this rather exasperating tendency to generalise and stereotype, to make stuff fit your worldview.And while I agree with you on what you said about "pimped out" prostitutes, there are an awful lot of women(and men) working as prostitutes who are doing this work by choice, because it pays well, they can make it fit their lifstyle and child etc commitments, and noone pimps them for anything.It's not all black and white.

Posted by: Franklin Percival | October 16, 2010 4:53 AM

Anyone join me in roundly criticising any religion never mind a get-rich-quick scheme like Scientology getting favourable tax treatment?

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 16, 2010 5:16 AM

The goings-on in the Chile thread have inspired me to start my own killfile. Anyone have any recommendations as to who I should add?

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 16, 2010 5:28 AM

Though posting a nude picture just so that Pharyngulites can diagnose my state of health might be a little... um... excessive.

You don't know until you try.

cirev - I think the most easily readable textbook for fungi is Moore-Landecker; unfortunately, it's a subject for which I can't recommend getting an older edition on the cheap, because fungal systematics has changed so much, and even the most recent edition is getting overly long in the tooth.
David Arora's Mushrooms Demystified is good; I know you said not a mushroom book, but it's dense with scientific information. (His "All the rain promises and more" is the small, light, fun version of the type I think you're wanting to avoid). The other suggestion I have is the Dictionary of the Fungi. It's a dictionary, but has every term you might ever need to know.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 16, 2010 5:56 AM

For one of my classes next week, I'm currently reading a social research study about the effect of avatar height and attractiveness on players' performance in World of Warcraft. (And its broader implications for the effect of self-perception and image on social interaction.) This is actually on the core reading list.

Damn... I'm beginning to think I may be on the most geeky degree course in existence. :-D

Posted by: Rorschach | October 16, 2010 6:16 AM

Just watched "Resident Evil Afterlife". I approve. Now to "The Karate Kid 2010".

Posted by: cirev | October 16, 2010 6:39 AM

cirev - I think the most easily readable textbook for fungi is Moore-Landecker; unfortunately, it's a subject for which I can't recommend getting an older edition on the cheap, because fungal systematics has changed so much, and even the most recent edition is getting overly long in the tooth. David Arora's Mushrooms Demystified is good; I know you said not a mushroom book, but it's dense with scientific information. (His "All the rain promises and more" is the small, light, fun version of the type I think you're wanting to avoid). The other suggestion I have is the Dictionary of the Fungi. It's a dictionary, but has every term you might ever need to know.

Thank you.

And I meant with mushroom book those that just tell if a mushroom is edible or not and what they look like etc.

Posted by: Peter Ashby | October 16, 2010 7:17 AM

Be aware people that here in the wonderful socialist, death panel enabled UK getting to see a doctor same day is not always achievable.

Walton when you ring, if they ask if it is an emergency just mention that you have lost a lot of unexplained weight recently. That should ring alarm bells, just like it did in here.

You will be pleased you went, regardless you will get not only a diagnosis but care and a routine treatment plan.

Life sends us a number of reminders to live a healthier life, mine were a bad back (relievable by exercise), chronic heartburn (relievable by exercise) and feeling really crap (relievable by exercise and going properly gluten free). I feel fantastic, healthier than I have in years despite a list of potential problems.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 16, 2010 7:44 AM

Talk about conceited. I just ran into a Christian who, in attempting to list off ways Christianity has bettered the world, gave Christianity credit for the Red Cross and Red Crescent movement. Right up until then I was willing to credit him for trying to make it -look- like he wasn't giving Christianity all the credit (even though he also credited it for getting rid of older superstitions, ignoring of course that Christianity is an entire collection of them)...

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 16, 2010 8:00 AM

cicely #182

I was thinking maybe something more like hiring a large man to stuff him into a large burlap sack

Dara O'Briain is a large man. Get in the fucking sack.

Posted by: Iris | October 16, 2010 8:04 AM

From Salon, a recipe for candied bacon.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 16, 2010 8:06 AM

To work I go. Hi ho, hi ho.

Which one of the dwarfs are you? Sleezy? Sneery? Dumbshit?

Posted by: John Morales | October 16, 2010 8:08 AM

Well, can't be Grumpy.

That's me.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 16, 2010 8:13 AM

'Tis: You forgot Moxie and Pepsi

They weren't dwarves, they were relatives of Dildo and Frito Bugger.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 16, 2010 8:53 AM

R:

Just watched "Resident Evil Afterlife". I approve.

I've said it time and time again: The RE fanchise will continue to suck until they reboot it and cast
David Boreanaz as Chris Redfield.

Until then, I will refuse to admit those movies even exist. :P

Side note:
I am stupidly excited about the meetup in Rhinebeck today! Everybody else is probably already there or on the road, so I've go one one to squee with...

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 16, 2010 9:15 AM

'Tis:

Well, I can't be Spanky, that dwarf's name is taken. And Quotey is claimed by a guy named David, so I don't know, which dwarf am I?

Posted by: GenghisFaun | October 16, 2010 9:34 AM

NoR @ #180:

Is your new tooth sniny and sharp? The better with which to rip trolls a new one!

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 16, 2010 9:47 AM

Video of the Secular Humanism panel with Mooney, PZ, Stenger and Scott is available here:

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/videos-of-l-a-panel-discussion-on-accommodationism/

Posted by: MrFire | October 16, 2010 10:12 AM

Good morning atheist scum

I wanted to share an amusing anecdote to enjoy with your coffee, from Betrand Russell's An Outline Of Intellectual Rubbish:

I admire especially a certain prophetess who lived beside a lake in Northern New York State about the year 1820. She announced to her numerous followers that she possessed the power of walking on water, and that she proposed to do so at 11 o'clock on a certain morning. At the stated time, the faithful assembled in their thousands beside the lake. She spoke to them, saying: "Are you all entirely persuaded that I can walk on water?" With one voice they replied: "We are." "In that case," she announced, "there is not need for me to do so." And they all went home much edified.

As the lovably quirky Anubis Bloodsin The Third might put it: "Believers...simple like so!"

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 16, 2010 10:42 AM

Mr Fire:
My vote would be for Jennifer Garner, actually.

Posted by: llewelly | October 16, 2010 11:16 AM

What about Wil Wheaton? A good Resident Evil reboot will have a possessed Wil Wheaton using phasers and magnets to rip the red blood cells straight out of your body!

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 16, 2010 12:15 PM

Walton could be (Anti)Doc.

Posted by: Chgo_Liz | October 16, 2010 12:24 PM

Just a reminder that Bo Burnham, the rap comedian highlighted in the video starting us off above, will be on Comedy Central at 10:00pm CST tonight (Saturday to most of us in the U.S., except for Tardy AKA Ogvorbis).

I assume that means 11:00pm for you east coasters, but don't set your DVRs on my say-so alone.

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | October 16, 2010 12:29 PM

Dibs on Lurky!

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 16, 2010 12:45 PM

Ogvorbis,
I thought elipses were these: '. . .' ? I would have referred to your thingamajigs as parentheses, but that just didn't ring well for a dwarf.
I am also not really clear on the difference between USFS, DoA and USNPS, DOI. I am guessing that you work for the second, yes?
Ashey is pretty cool and looks to have good mileage.
___

So, I now kinda understand how starfart felt. I am pretty rigorous about composing out of browser, then pasting into the comment window when I am ready to submit. That doesn't really make it any less frustrating that it is taking me four or five sign in attempts for each comment this week. It hasn't been a problem in the past so I really didn't understand before, but after the past several days I am getting pretty worked up.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 16, 2010 12:53 PM

Dhorvath:

Ya, you're right on the elipses. However, the ()'s are elipitical, right?

USFS (United States Forest Service) is part of the DoA (Department of Agriculture). They are a multi-use land management agency and, unless declared a wilderness area, any land not set aside as sensitive (riparian habitats for instance) or necessary for the survival of a listed species, the land may be used for grazing, mining or timber, within limits. The USNPS (United States National Park Service) is part of the DOI (Department of the Interior) and is also a land management agency. However, the National Park system is tasked with preserving the historical and natural resources for future generations while allowing public access so they can be safely enjoyed today. Neither agency has an easy job as the balance between business and preservation in the USFS and the balance between recreation and preservation in the NPS depends a great deal on the judgement of the political appointees.

The amazing thing is that it has worked for as long and as well as it has.

Smokey Bear has become much less of an anti-wildland fire symbol than in the past. The public land agencies have figured out that fire is not only tolerable but, in many cases, necessary. Now the Forest Service bear is primarily concerned with human-started fires and urban interfaces with their concurrent fire dangers. We've gone from 'all fire is bad' to 'fire is good in the right places'.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 16, 2010 1:04 PM

I always assumed that Smokey was a parks initiative because the ads that I was exposed to always seemed targeted at recreational use of wilderness.
Of course, I might know more about that if I lived in the states or consumed more media that referenced Smokey. I don't think I have seen much since I was in school and that was generally on T.V. so I wouldn't really have seen which part of the government was responsible.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 16, 2010 1:14 PM

Dhorvath:

The Forest Service's multiple use initiatives do include recreation -- hiking, hunting, rafting, swimming, camping -- and that was the primary target of the anti-wildfire campaigns. The USFS figured that the loggers, miners and ranchers understood the perils of accidental fire whereas the city slickers had no clue. A stereotype but, when it comes to fires, there is, as with many stereotypes, a grain of truth. When I get back from my next two tours, I'll tell you about a couple of them.

Posted by: Shala | October 16, 2010 1:41 PM

My vote's for Silent Hill-- at least it attempted to follow the given story line.

I never saw it but I hope it at least features Kauffman's amazing moments at the end of the game

"Ha! You're easy!" (????)

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 16, 2010 1:51 PM

a little while, the topic on running awayemigrating to New Zealand came up in a conversation with Caine, so I looked up what sort of people NZ is letting in.

Being offered a job as a homeopath gives you half the necessary points, but nothing I do or the boyfriend does qualifies.

not funny.

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | October 16, 2010 1:54 PM

pixelfish
Congratulations.
Are those the hotel's towels?

Posted by: pixelfish | October 16, 2010 2:16 PM

Thanks for the congrats, Dhorvath, chgo_lis, kiyaroru, and Jadehawk. :)

@Kiyaroru: Hah! No, indeed. We got them from ThinkGeek: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/8e20/

...

In sadder news, it looks like Benoit Mandelbrot has died. When I was a kid, we used to spend hours watching my dad generate fractals from the Mandelbrot set on his computer. (Hours, because it took FOREVER back then.)

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/10/he-gave-us-order-out-of-chaos-r-i-p-benoit-mandelbrot-1924-2010/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/us/17mandelbrot.html

Here's a classic Mandelbrot: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mandelbrot-Menge_farbig.png

(We used to call it That Fractal Wot Has a Bum.)

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 2:25 PM

Being offered a job as a homeopath gives you half the necessary points, but nothing I do or the boyfriend does qualifies.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 16, 2010 2:31 PM

I'm on my way to getting myself deleted and blocked again. Why this old college "friend" wanted to re-add me in the height of election fervor, knowing full well that we vastly disagree, is beyond me. She posts Fux News crap everyday. I've kept my fingers away until now.

She posted a link to this article.

Why did you accept the friend request, Jules, if you knew that she was a hateful, woo-soaked Tea Bagger jackass?

It was so I would have the opportunity to do what I did today. Which is to justifiably write Bigotry is ugly on her stupid comments for her and all of her friends to see.

Not that it will do anything for her. But at least it will be part of the public record.

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine | October 16, 2010 2:46 PM

Peter Ashby says, "Be aware people that here in the wonderful socialist, death panel enabled UK getting to see a doctor same day is not always achievable."

Uh, Dude, here in the capitalist paradise US, I can't even find a frigging general practitioner who will take my insurance, and I am a federal government civil servant with one of those cadillac insurance plans they hail as ideal. I've got frigging skin cancers older than Walton.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 16, 2010 2:51 PM

Congrats, pixelfish!

I can't even find a frigging general practitioner who will take my insurance

I had to call eight different doc's offices before I found a GP who was even taking any new patients, let alone who would take my insurance.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 16, 2010 2:55 PM

The USNPS (United States National Park Service) is part of the DOI (Department of the Interior)

"What do you call the government organization in charge of the great outdoor? The Department of the Interior." -George Carlin

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 16, 2010 2:59 PM

Congratulation, pixelfish.

Your ying-yang tat is a different take on an old standby.

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 16, 2010 3:06 PM

P.S. To pixelfish: I think I may have to get a pair of those tights myself. They are gorgeous.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 16, 2010 3:10 PM

Mitt Romney does business the mormon way. On the surface it looks almost legitimate, but one level down, just below the cover story, the book sales are faked. Or if you want to be kind, Romney's "bestseller" status was arrived at via questionable shenanigans. Reminds me of how the LDS Church counts "active members."

Mitt Romney boosted sales of his book this spring by asking institutions to buy thousands of copies in exchange for his speeches, according to a document obtained by POLITICO.
     Romney's book tour ran from early March to late May of this year, and took him to bookstores, universities, conferences and private groups around the country. Their giant purchases helped his book, No Apology: The Case for American Greatness, debut on top of the New York Times best-seller list, though with an asterisk indicating bulk purchases.
     The hosts ranged from Claremont McKenna College to the Restaurant Leadership Conference, many of whom are accustomed to paying for high-profile speakers like Romney. Asking that hosts buy books is also a standard feature of book tours. But Romney's total price — $50,000 — was on the high end, and his publisher, according to the document from the book tour — provided on the condition it not be described in detail — asked institutions to pay at least $25,000, and up to the full $50,000 price, in bulk purchases of the book. With a discount of roughly 40 percent, that meant institutions could wind up with more than 3,000 copies of the book — and a person associated with one of his hosts said they still have quite a pile left over....

More Romney bashing for doing nothing out of the ordinary in politics. Romney just shows his brilliant business sense. How better to get the word out than through books?! A speech only reaches the people in the room, but a book gets out. Bravo Romney!

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 16, 2010 3:30 PM

Bishop Gene Robinson (Episcopal Diocese of New Hampshire), wrote an article for HuffPo in which he details "How Religion is Killing Vulnerable Youth":
Excerpts:

An increasingly popular bumper sticker reads, "Guns Don't Kill People -- RELIGION Kills People!" In light of recent events I would add religion kills young people: gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender young people.
     Perhaps not directly, though. And religion is certainly not the only source of anti-gay sentiment in the culture. But it's hard to deny that religious voices denouncing LGBT people contribute to the atmosphere in which violence against LGBT people and bullying of LGBT youth can flourish.... [Bishop Robinson goes on to give details of recent suicides, and doing an admirable job of showing us individuals, and not just faceless members of the so-called gay lifestyle.]...
     With humility and heartfelt repentance I assert that religion -- and its general rejection of homosexuality -- plays a crucial role in this crisis.
     Religious Right hatemongers and crazies are spewing all sorts of venom and condemnation, all in the name of a loving God. The second-highest-ranking Mormon leader, Boyd K. Packer, recently called same-sex attraction "impure and unnatural" in an act of unspeakable insensitivity at the height of this rash of teen suicides. He declared that it can be cured, and that same-sex unions are morally repugnant and "against God's law and nature."
     Just as many gay kids grow up in these conservative denominations as any other. They are told day in and day out that they are an abomination before God. Just consider the sheer numbers of LGBT kids growing up right now in Roman Catholic, Mormon, and other conservative religious households. The pain and self-loathing caused by such a distortion of God's will is undeniable and tragic, causing scars and indescribable self-alienation in these young victims.
     You don't have to grow up in a religious household, though, to absorb these religious messages. Not long ago I had a conversation with six gay teens, not one of whom had ever had any formal religious training or influence. Every one of them knew the word "abomination," and every one of them thought that was what God thought of them. They couldn't have located the Book of Leviticus in the Bible if their lives depended on it yet they had absorbed this message from the antigay air they breathe every day.
     Add to that the Minnesota Family Council's Tom Prichard recently saying that the real cause of the suicides is "homosexual indoctrination," not antigay bullying, and that the students died because they adopted an "unhealthy lifestyle."
     Susan Russell from All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California, points out how ludicrous these statements are in her "An Inch at a Time" blog:
     Thirteen and fifteen year olds are not 'adopting a lifestyle,' they're trying to have a life! They're trying to figure out who they are, ...
      what's the role of more mainline, more progressive denominations such as mainstream Christianity, Judaism, and Islam in these recent tragedies? Mostly silence. And just like in the days of the AIDS organization Act Up, "silence equals death."...
     Tolerant people, especially tolerant religious people, need to get over their squeamishness about being vocal advocates and unapologetic supporters of LGBT people. It really is a matter of life and death, as we've seen.
     I learned this in my dealing with racism. It's not enough to be tolerant of other races. I benefit from a racist society just by being white. I don't ever have to use the "n" word, treat any person of color with discourtesy, or even think ill of anyone. But as long as I am not working to dismantle the systemic racism that benefits me, a white man, at the expense of people of color, I am a racist. And my faith calls me to become an anti-racist -- pro-active, vocal, and committed....
     These bullying behaviors would not exist without the undergirding and the patina of respect provided by religious fervor against LGBT people.... Nothing short of changing our theology of human sexuality will save these young and precious lives.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 3:49 PM

Jules: Is that Marine Chief aware of the study that was on Ed's blog, that showed that even the Marines, by a majority, were alright with gay servicemen? And sorry that you have to deal with that kind of stupid directly =/

Grats, Pixelfish, on the wedding! (Can you tell I don't read the Thread in a sane order yet?)

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 16, 2010 4:29 PM

PZ, please give Tim Minchin a kiss for me.

skeptifem @213:

LYNNA- if you read this and wanna guest blog on Fuck Utah let me know.

And now I'm about to reveal the weasel-like, cowardly (at best "practical") side of my nature.

Mormons scare me. I know too much -- and one of the things I know too well is how organized and effective they can be when they want to teach someone a lesson. I'm always hanging by a thread when it comes to financial solvency. All it would take is for word of my questioning of mormon theology to get out in a more public way (as on the Fuck Utah blog), and what little income I have would dry up and blow away. (Mormons would only do this out of love, of course, and to encourage me to get on the right god track. /sarcasm)

I'm not hiding. But I'm not putting my "fuck Utah" stance in the local paper either.

I'm trying to walk a fine line between being open and honest, and being homeless and shunned.

Even what passes for art and culture here is heavily influenced by, and often run by, mormons. Many of them are people of integrity with the single exception of their whacko religion. The problem is that, for most them, when push comes to shove their religion (and the pronouncements of their religious leaders) take precedence. I can't trust them to back me up if I go too public. Chances are, they'd just put on their mormon glasses and suddenly see me as I really am, a friend of The Adversary.

Let this be a lesson to all: any cult that becomes overwhelmingly dominant in a society will scare the bejeezus out of non-cult members. The oppression ranges from subtle to overt, but is always all-encompassing.

Maybe I could let you take credit for a blog entry by me? Or maybe I just have to wait until I grow a pair.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 16, 2010 4:42 PM

pixelfish @271

The Boy and I skibbled off to Vegas last weekend and got ourselves hitched before our families and Elvis.

Lovely cephalopod tattoo.

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 16, 2010 4:46 PM

Bill D:

Yup, read it twice already. Matter of fact, it is sitting in the bookcase over my shoulder. Very good book. It illustrates the false dichotomy of progress versus profit while also showing frightening parallels between today and a hundred years ago -- the malefactors of great wealth were there yesterday and are here today. I highly recommend it.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 16, 2010 4:52 PM

Wait, wait! The cephalopod on pixelfish's comely calf is part of the tights? Is that right?

Jules, we need to put in a bulk order for tights -- all the Pharyngula ladies need a pair. Josh and Kev too. Possibly MrFire, and his ladies.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 16, 2010 4:58 PM

I know nowt of videogames, but I recall Dan Savage being pleased when one let you have gay sex (not with Brownian, though) instead of just plain ol' opposite sex.

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 16, 2010 5:05 PM

For Bill Dauphin, you can't make jelly on a cloudy day: with the lower air pressure, the jelly boils at a lower temperature and never gets hot enough to reach the jelling point.

I'm too lazy to plug the numbers into Clausius-Clapeyron, but those coupla hectopascals are not gonna do anything much for the boiling point of water, much less a concentrated aqueous solution of stuff. Just like adding a bit of salt to the water does not increase appreciatively the temperature at which your spuds boil.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 16, 2010 5:14 PM

Let this be a lesson to all: any cult that becomes overwhelmingly dominant in a society will scare the bejeezus out of non-cult members. The oppression ranges from subtle to overt, but is always all-encompassing.

Maybe I could let you take credit for a blog entry by me? Or maybe I just have to wait until I grow a pair.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | October 16, 2010 5:56 PM

The viscosity of pectin is also pH dependent, getting thicker with decreasing pH (more acidity). If your fruit/pepper isn't acid enough, it might not get as thick as expected.

Posted by: John Morales | October 16, 2010 6:23 PM

Lynna quotes some religious person:

I learned this in my dealing with racism. It's not enough to be tolerant of other races. I benefit from a racist society just by being white. I don't ever have to use the "n" word, treat any person of color with discourtesy, or even think ill of anyone. But as long as I am not working to dismantle the systemic racism that benefits me, a white man, at the expense of people of color, I am a racist.

That is an attitude that seriously annoys me.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 16, 2010 6:25 PM

Lacerated penis.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 16, 2010 6:27 PM

John Morales #318:
It annoys me too. I can't really pin down why -- I want to say that it comes perilously close to thoughtcrime, but that's probably not correct.

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM | October 16, 2010 6:37 PM

John M,
I don't understand exactly why that statement bothers you, but I will take a bishop speaking openly like that over one saying how evil homosexuality is any day of the week.

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 16, 2010 6:46 PM

I want to say that it comes perilously close to thoughtcrime, but that's probably not correct.

Posted by: John Morales | October 16, 2010 6:53 PM

Two major things wrong with the Bishop's attitude:

1. Fallacy of the excluded middle.
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem".

2. Fallacy of over-broad definition:
That I don't "work to dismantle X" does not automatically make me an Xist.

--

In short, it's about as meaningful as saying that atheist accommodationists are theists.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 16, 2010 7:03 PM

It's really hard to get things done when your team is filled with kids and n00bs. Many of them go all Rambo and want to get all the kills themselves. Rather than having a team of 10 people you have 10 libertarians all doing their own thing.

Posted by: John Morales | October 16, 2010 7:05 PM

Grr.

Professor John Frink, Jr. is my favourite Simpsons character, and now a part-time troll has taken that 'nym.

Posted by: pixelfish | October 16, 2010 7:15 PM

Lynna@308: Yep, those are octopus tights. They come in a variety of shades: grey, white, and 4-5 skin tone shades from light to dark. They also come in knee high version, but the octopus only comes on one leg so as to give the impression of a tattoo. Here's a link: http://www.etsy.com/listing/59128503/sexy-octopus-tattoo-thigh-high-stockings - Now if these are sold, keep checking the rest of the store, because on Etsy, you have to list items individually. Also, fair warning, they ship from Israel and take about two-three weeks to arrive. (Mine arrived the day before we left for Vegas. I was so worried they wouldn't get here in time.)

@Bill: That's not straight Kahlua. It's one of the pre-mixed mudslides from the store. :)

@Tis Himself: Thanks. I don't know if it's really visible in those pictures, but the two central spots are a star and a maple leaf. :)

Thanks again, Sili, Bill, Lynna, Jules, Rutee, Nerd of Redhead, OurDeadSelves, Aratina, and everyone else.

RE: WoW -
@Feynmaniac: My (Republican, Mormon) family plays Alliance, so I have a draenei when I hang out with them, but mostly I play Horde. (I'm a troll, but I also like playing tauren and I have a few belfs.)

Posted by: pixelfish | October 16, 2010 7:21 PM

@Tis Himself: I was really reluctant regarding the hexes and combat in CivV but I think I really dig them after two games. What I REALLY miss are the Wonder cinematics. Sadness.

Every Civ manages to do away with something I used to love, although usually it gets replaced with something new and awesome. I admit, I really miss the Palace from Civ2, where you could mix and match architecture styles to get whacky palaces.

I have to say I don't really miss the religion aspect of Civ IV, wherein I was practically forced to adopt a religion for strategic benefits. (On the other hand, what a remarkably cynical and real-world way to look at religion.) I almost always went Buddhism first and spread my state religion like crazy, while feeling slightly dirty for inflicting it on my imaginary people. On the other hand, I didn't have an emotional attachment to my religion so could exploit it whereas I played a few folks who ACTUALLY really were attached to their religion and switched when they finally "discovered" Christianity--which is a mid-game discovery, and puts you at a disadvantage against the earlier discovered religions which are already well-establish all over the place.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 16, 2010 7:34 PM

Ogvorbis:

Yah, I have the audiobook, and have listened to it once (though it usually takes me two listens to really "get" a book). I enjoyed it, but wondered if there were any problematic points that an outsider like me might not pick up on. Thanks for the validation.

Pixelfish:

That's not straight Kahlua. It's one of the pre-mixed mudslides from the store.

Well, alright, then; carry on!

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 16, 2010 7:38 PM

The excluded middle, in this case, would be non-racists who aren't actively seeking to dismantle racism.

not a bigot, but still a racist, as far as your effects on humankind go.

it's just uncomfortable

Only if you're irrational or ideologue.

I don't like disease (a problem that actively harms people), but I haven't become a doctor. Does that really make me part of the problem of disease?

if the answer is no, you're indeed part of the problem.

Posted by: crowepps | October 16, 2010 7:47 PM

Jadehawk - The problem with this particular aphorism is the underlying premise. "If you are not part of the solution [as I envision it] then you are part of the problem [as I define it]."

When somebody wants me to turn from working on the societal problems that I personally consider important and work instead to put in place THEIR solution to what THEY consider 'the problem', they are saying that they are a better judge of what's important than I am, they are entitled to redirect my efforts, and noncooperation entitles them to administer a guilt-trip.

The aphorism might be true if there was only ONE problem and we all agreed 100% exactly what it is and how to fix it, but it's not very useful when there are not only dozens and dozens of problems, but nobody can agree on exactly what they are or how to fix them.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 16, 2010 7:54 PM

'Tis,

After reading Feynmaniac's post about WOW I think I'll stick with CivIV.

It's not so bad if you play the Horde. I quit playing because a mixture of boredom with it* and it being too much of time sink. I know it sounds odd, but the game is actually quite addicting.

* You can see you how many hours you've been in the game. It's quite sad when the result numbers a few weeks.

There's three other reasons I'm staying away from CivV:

● My computer just makes the recommended specs for CivV. I'm not going to do an expensive upgrade or get a new computer just to play a game.

My computer also just barely makes it. While it's slow, it's still playable IMO.

● Any new game is going to have bugs in it. I always wait until the first patch comes out before buying a large game. There's still bugs but the game usually becomes playable. For that matter there's still bugs in CivIV and it's been out for over five years now.

Yeah, there are a few bugs. It's actually surprising that it was released with some of them. I guess they had a deadline and thought they can always fix it in the patch.

The game itself is alright, although it still needs some work. The hexagonal tiling and the fact that cities spread one tile at a time makes things like much more natural. I still think they should have gotten rid of religions though.

One of the main reasons I tried it out was because I had played a lot of Civ4 and had become bored with it.
_ _ _

Despite what this thread may suggest, I'm really not that big a gamer. Every once in a while though a game comes along and I play it a lot. That's what happened with the Civilization series and with WoW.

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | October 16, 2010 8:03 PM

How about another aphorism? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that the good do nothing."

I think John M wants to restrict terms like "racist" and "sexist" to the active rather than passive variant. It's a defensible position, I think, but incomplete.

I'm not comfortable with the way it erases the concept of benefitting from sexism and racism. I have benefits from being white, for sure. And disadvantages from being female. And I have racist and sexist thoughts and assumptions, which I try to overrule whenever I notice them, but are pretty well ingrained by my upbringing. If sexism and racism are only active, though, what am I supposed to call those dumb assumptions? (eg, that an unnamed doctor is a white man.)

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 16, 2010 8:04 PM

I maintain that it's impossible to "act non-racist" by inaction in the face of racism, since "acting racist" means behaving in such a way that racism results. so, if someone does something racist, and you have the ability to stop it but don't, then your action (refraining from intervening) has resulted in racism. that means your action was racist.

therefore, by default, actually acting non-racist (i.e. in such a way that no racism results) helps the situation. but one cannot simultaneously act non-racist and act in such a way that racism results, so inaction and non-racism aren't compatible.

I'm going to assume what you're actually arguing is that it's possible to be a non-bigot by not acting, but not all racism is the result of bigotry. a lot of it is the result of inaction

Posted by: crowepps | October 16, 2010 8:09 PM

the statement in no way invalidates the existence of multiple problems of equal importance.

Take "reproduction". What precisely is the societal 'problem' and what exactly is the 'solution' everyone will be guilty of malfeasance if they're not 'part of'?

Is the 'problem' women are getting abortions?
Is the 'problem' women are conceiving unwanted pregnancies?
Is the 'problem' birth control isn't more effective, easy to get and cheap?
Is the 'problem' that sex should be reserved for marriage?
Is the 'problem' that people are having sex for other reasons than attempting to conceive?
Is the 'problem' that all women should WANT to have 8 or 12 or 16 children?

I won't even attempt to define the multitude of solutions people argue will fix everything.

Each group who has chosen one of these as 'the problem' can use 'if you're not part of the solution' to guilt-trip people even though those people disagree with them vehemently about what the 'problem' is.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 8:19 PM

I'm not comfortable with the way it erases the concept of benefitting from sexism and racism. I have benefits from being white, for sure. And disadvantages from being female.

I am pretty happy with religion in Civ4. My favorite cultural victory is to expand to 9/12/15 (Varies with map size) cities, then hunker down. You have to make sure to get as many religions as you can this way, though preferably not with founding. Open Borders with other founders goes a long way to help. You spread every religion to every city (HEnce Organized Religion), and build a temple to each religion in each city (Not at the same time). That gives you the ability to make one of every cathedral in your 3 culture-villes. Works at its best with Spiritual (+100% Temple construction), because you're building so very many temples.

Temples and Monasteries also see their culture double over time, so this helps a lot in trying to get a culture win; Without, you pretty much have to wait for the modern era (Broadway, Rock and Roll, Radio, etc) to get a win, but with this, you can nail one before ~1800.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 16, 2010 8:27 PM

Culture bombs are not as cool in Civ 5 though.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 8:33 PM

Of course, but one side seems to have much more of them than the other.

The Horde did seem to draw more assholes, but at least they tended to be competent assholes.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 16, 2010 8:36 PM

pixelfish, thanks for the link to the cephalopod-enhanced stockings. Want.

The administrators of the "We Love You Boyd K. Packer" Facebook page have removed almost all of the negative or reasonable comments. But a few slipped past them, including this one:

"You know the difference between a Catholic and a Mormon? Catholics claim the pope is infallible but don't really believe it. Mormons claim their prophet is indeed fallible but don't really believe it."

Posted by: pixelfish | October 16, 2010 8:41 PM

@Tis Himself: Oh, don't worry...my sensibilities don't get in the way of ACTUALLY playing the game. You make a beeline for Hinduism, I make the beeline for Buddhism. (My little gold glowing man in lotus position!) I'm totally aware that having an Organised Religion is a strategic benefit of great magnitude in CivIV. I just still feel vaguely squicky about it--the way I felt vaguely squicky about the two torture quests in WoW when you do the Death Knight storyline. I think it's an interesting thing to note, but it's still just a game. A fictional exercise.

My mother, on the other hand, REALLY does let her sensibilities run games for her. She refused to drink during Brewfest (in World of Warcraft) and when I asked her (knowing that she has the drake for Long Strange Trip) how she got the achievement, she confided to me that she had my dad and brother do those portions of the quests for her. Which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms: she feels morally sketchy about drinking virtual beer but not letting her Mormon spouse and Mormon son who presumably might share her core beliefs about the Mormon Word of Wisdom (the dietary and health laws for Mormons). I pointed out that she'd been running around killing innocent mobs for ages, and somehow she didn't have a problem with THAT. But virtual beer? OH NOES!

@Rutee: I too am a culture bomber. Nothing delights me more than sneaking my settlers in and culture-bombing the hell out of a region.

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 16, 2010 9:01 PM

I have no issue in calling out racism when I see it, but I'm not an activist seeking to reorganise society.

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 16, 2010 9:03 PM

you don't consider actively calling out racism when you see it to be part of "working to dismantle systemic racism"? how strange. but i suppose if the only activism you think counts is some big, highly visible and high-impact stuff, then your bristling at calling inaction racist would actually make sense. it would still be wrong, due to the wrong premise, but at least it would make sense.

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine | October 16, 2010 9:08 PM

Jadehawk says: " if the problem-making people all went inert, the problem would solve itself; "

Well, there is always entropy to contend with, so, the folks who care have to work their asses off just to stay even.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 9:16 PM

Actually, I'm not a culture bomber. I prefer settling GAs, as a rule. As always, there will be exceptions, of course, but 3 (5) beakers and 14 (16) culture is a pretty nice trade.

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine | October 16, 2010 9:23 PM

Feynmaniac says,"The biggest problem I think is covert racism."

Or it might just be utter cluelessness about the history of race in our economy. Until the late 1950s, nonwhite races technically could not become naturalized citizens of the US. It was one of the things that made it so easy to intern the Japanese and effectively steal their property.

And from 1934-1964, blacks effectively could not get an FHA loan--black neighborhoods were "redlined" and if a black family moved into a white neighborhood, the red line moved with them. Only 2% of loans during this period went to nonwhites. It is thought that this single fact accounts for about 2 trillion dollars in wealth difference between whites and nonwhites! And that does not consider indirect effects--like the fact that minority families did not have houses to put up for collateral for loans to finance their childrens' educations. This is why if I ever meet Allan Bakke, I will kick him in the balls. Forget reparations for slavery. Blacks in the US should sue just for damages incurred since passage of the 13th-15th amendments!

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 16, 2010 9:40 PM

Have they only been done on negative discrimination, or are there any on positive discrimination as well?

I don't know of any. In the ones I've read about people tended to be more react worse to minorities. Judges will dish out harsher punishment to black offenders than white offenders of the same crime.

Given how much bitching is done about positive discrimination, it would be interesting to see how prevalent it actually is.

If minorities benefit at all from any positive discrimination it seems to be far, FAR less than what they suffer from negative discrimination.

Or it might just be utter cluelessness about the history of race in our economy.

That's probably part of it as well, but not all of it. If you take a look there really our people discriminating or making certain assumptions about due to their race and are not even aware of it.

I really think a big portion of the birther or Obama is a secret Muslim theories is just unconscious racism. Extreme racism, like that which went on the in the US, leaves a mark.

Posted by: John Morales | October 16, 2010 10:36 PM

broboxley:

The next time he called in because his systems were hosed I had to refer him to the Alaskan Assassin because I was busy.

I take it that by that you mean you lied to him about being busy and directed him to someone who would cause him problems as revenge for his racist attitude?

Says a lot about you.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 16, 2010 10:44 PM

I take it that by that you mean you lied to him about being busy and directed him to someone who would cause him problems as revenge for his racist attitude?

Says a lot about you.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 16, 2010 10:53 PM

I also applaud you broboxley OT.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 16, 2010 11:00 PM

This was because he preferred the other guy for about a year before he realized he didnt have a clue. The other guy had the "correct" politics and attitudes you see.

This sums up the Bush Administration way of hiring.

Posted by: Ewan R | October 16, 2010 11:07 PM

It's not so bad if you play the Horde. I quit playing because a mixture of boredom with it* and it being too much of time sink. I know it sounds odd, but the game is actually quite addicting.

I found either side to be absolutely fine so long as you had endless time to put in and therefore could land in a high end guild - infact I may have misremembered earlier about blood elves etc as the death of high end raiding is one of the things which killed the game for me - I played in both Alliance and Horde end game raiding guilds and never suffered from the horror of pickup groups in either PvP or PvM but a couple of times a month.

You can see you how many hours you've been in the game. It's quite sad when the result numbers a few weeks

Sadder yet when it's numbered in months. I may be misremembering again but I have a feeling my everquest account racked up close to a year on a single character.

The addictiveness of the game is certainly there - I haven't played in getting on for 2 years and still miss it, but it is kinda damaging (if you've got the wrong personality type) - I essentially avoided serious job hunting until the stage we basically couldn't make rent, and flooded the kitchen once as I started to do dishes in some down time at the start of a raid and then forgot about it, probably for 2 hours, while we got a server first kill - I then spent the remainder of the day mopping the kitchen (and basement...) and counted it as a victory that my wife didn't realize what I'd done.

Then again I've had the same issue with MMORPGs since their popularization with Ultima online - I have an absolute inability to enjoy the games unless I can invest way too much time in them - getting back to comments about "success" in WoW and casual gamers etc - I personally would see it as a victory to be able to play casually and enjoy the game - but seriously, if I can't go at it 6+ hours at a time (careful Brownian...) then I don't enjoy it at all (and preferred 40 man raids to 20 man - I'd hoped they'd up the raid size - 72 was the max in Everquest and that was fun (for me, terribly terribly exclusive however for anyone who even wanted to fake having a life))

Posted by: John Morales | October 16, 2010 11:30 PM

broboxley:

It does say a lot about me, I take the long view and venge is a dish best eaten cold.

Yup. You give someone no indication you think they've wronged you (though you know they're unaware of your perception), but bide your time and lie about your motivation when circumstances allow and guide them wrongly so they will suffer detrimental effects, and afterwards take further advantage of them (whilst still not informing them you have a grievance).

This you recount proudly.

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 12:29 AM

yo moralez I mentioned he was my nephew who turned out to be racially challenged, you couldnt figure out the relationship? let me help
nephew related by race
nephew related by marriage
pick one
now you willing to receive advice from someone you have just done this to?
oops
sucks to be you
whats you addy phone number I need some ready coinage

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 12:38 AM

Any other pharyangula types heading towards the last space shuttle launch ever? Will be leaving atlanta halloween at noon or so heading south so hollar if you need a ride, so far one physicist with a 6-8 dimension theory, all else welcome. Leave immediately after safe separation of all modules back to north of atlanta
williamoxley at netscape dot com

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 12:46 AM

kiyaroru
sorry,
some people post as if it is/was recorded for posterity or prosperity. In a post, as opposed to an article I treat it more like blathering in a bar. So if you prefer sharp, well thought out reparte over several days, versus now speak, please killfile me right now because I am speaking not "authoring"

Posted by: David Marjanović | October 17, 2010 12:53 AM

So the subthread more than doubled overnight. And OurDeadSelves told us "it's been quiet, with everyone over here". Should have strangled her right there in the restaurant (which, BTW, I can only recommend) instead of just giving her (and Carlie) that goodbye hug.

Anyway, I was taught to spin. I hear a photo is already on Mattir's Facebook page.

Congratulations to pixelfish! :-) No time to look at your photos just yet.

Congratulations to 'Tis Himself! :-)

ok, ok, I'm fixing my question: Was suction feeding a result of the porn, or the fundementalist cultures?

It was a result of chip crumbs on my fingers. :-) Licking would have made way too many crumbs fall off.

To be fair, that picture was taken right after I finished finals, so I was particularly thin and pale, having been stuck in my room for the preceding two months. :-) I don't weigh any more now (very slightly less, in fact), but I don't think I look quite so skinny, though it's hard for me to tell.

<gigantic wet halibut>

You're in denial.

That you weigh less than at your time of peak stress is a glaring sign that something is very, very wrong with you.

(Oh, BTW, today we were shown a moustache picture of you. Everyone agrees it was great that you got rid of it. It didn't make you look interesting, it made you look anachronistic. It made you look both 20 and 100 years older than you are.)

I love Jackie Chan as the maintenance man.

I've watched some kind of making-of. It included the scene where Jackie Chan tells the bullies to go home. Awesome.

"You know the difference between a Catholic and a Mormon? Catholics claim the pope is infallible but don't really believe it. Mormons claim their prophet is indeed fallible but don't really believe it."

Winsome.

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 1:01 AM

#391 shift left broken, cant type without both fingers have a hard time seeing the keyboatrd and one more time, I do not post with the idea that every word must be inspected for accuracy smug in the idea that I have matched all possible scrutiny for meaning. I post as if in flowing conversation in a public establishment which is somewhat freeflowing. It is annoying to some so please killfile me if you are a sort who requires exactitude and correct spelling and punctuation. You will likely miss nothing by doing so

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 1:06 AM

@kiyaroru, did you have clown makup on by chance?

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | October 17, 2010 1:29 AM

whatever #394
My left shift key is also broken. As is the control key. And the 'left-click' portion of my klicky-thingy(TM). I deal.
When in conversation in TRW with actual meat-units you have a bajillion© generations of body-posture and facial recognition experience.
Doesn't work worth a crap in text-only-world.
I am not "sort" of any kind. But I am smug.
;-}

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 17, 2010 1:52 AM

(Oh, BTW, today we were shown a moustache picture of you. Everyone agrees it was great that you got rid of it. It didn't make you look interesting, it made you look anachronistic. It made you look both 20 and 100 years older than you are.)

I agree when he had the ends pointed upward it looked too old fashioned. However, I still think Walton can make some sort of facial hair work.

Now, about that unibrow.....

Posted by: KG | October 17, 2010 5:57 AM

I'll join the chorus chuckling appreciatively at broboxley's revenge, and advising John Morales to remove that stick from his arse.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 6:18 AM

On the topic of gender and employment... what does everyone think about this?

In brief: there is an EU legislative proposal to increase full paid maternity leave from 14 to 20 weeks. (Businesses are required to continue paying women who are on maternity leave, but can claim back some of the cost from the Treasury.) But British small businesses are arguing that it would be a huge squeeze on smaller companies at a difficult economic time.

Kieran O'Keefe from the British Chambers of Commerce says the proposal would particularly hit businesses with only a few staff.

He said: "Smaller operators are always the ones that seem to suffer the most from this.

"Any change like this will be extremely hard for them to absorb - having to cope with the legal changes, having to cover for somebody while they're out the workplace for an extended period of time - I think is the last thing you want to be doing in the current economic conditions."...

Employment Relations Minister Edward Davey said: "This is a substantial increase at a time when economies across the EU can least afford it.

"In addition to the cost of these proposals - which will double the £2 billion we currently spend on maternity pay - they will be regressive as most of the additional money will go to the highest paid women."

But Belinda Phipps, the chief executive of the National Childbirth Trust, said the objections to the proposed new law were invalid.

She said families should be able to choose how long they should be at home to be able to bond with their baby and that the "temporary financial crisis" should not impact policy.

One mother said it was "not fair that only well off people are able to choose how long they can spend off work while poorer people have to go back to work".

I can see legitimate arguments on both sides, so... what does everyone think? (I'm aware that maternity leave arrangements in the US and many other countries tend to be a lot less generous.)

Posted by: John Morales | October 17, 2010 6:29 AM

KG, whatever offence my sensibilities must endure, I clearly offend many others much more in the process.

This is fitting.

--

(Besides, had you not chosen that "stick up [my] arse" idiom and thus invoked class perception, I'd not have responded in kind. ;) )

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 17, 2010 7:03 AM

KG, inform his lordship you're as bourgeois as is possible for an anarchist-socialist to be.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 7:12 AM

(Oh, BTW, today we were shown a moustache picture of you. Everyone agrees it was great that you got rid of it. It didn't make you look interesting, it made you look anachronistic. It made you look both 20 and 100 years older than you are.)

:-D

You're probably right... I haven't grown it back, anyway.

Though I do have much longer hair now than in my FB photo. It's inching closer and closer to my shoulders.

(All my pics are quite out-of-date actually... maybe I should buy a camera.)

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 17, 2010 7:21 AM

areyoulistening, Nineteen Eighty-Four certainly hammers home what runaway totalitarianism might be like, and some religions certainly are intrinsically authoritarian, but I think it's unfair to characterise religion in general thus.

Posted by: KG | October 17, 2010 7:34 AM

the hands of the petite [sic] bourgeoisie - 'Tis Himself

But what's the class position of MIDGETS and DWARFS?

Yes, if "petit bourgeois" includes professionals, I'm petit bourgeois, but professionals form an odd amalgam, economically or sociologically, with owners of small businesses.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 17, 2010 8:59 AM

areyoulistening:

Goddamnit. I've been thinking about 1984 again and the more I think about it the more I think that Orwell was describing a religion rather than a state.

Hm. Now, it's been a while since I've read 1984*, but I'm pretty sure that Orwell was expressly writing about a totalitarian state.

Totalitarianism (in any form) requires complete submission of the citizenry-- much like any successful/powerful religion. You do not question the government(church) unless you want to be branded as an unpatriotic traitor(heretic). Which, in a totalitarian regime, often leads to being disappeared or even executed(excommunicated/shunned).

I will agree that both religion and totalitarianism absolutely depend on a scared and ignorant population-- and the biggest threat to either is an informed citizenry. But it's a matter of scale. In the 20^th and 21^st centuries, a powerful religion would be far less likely to kill its followers for disobeying church doctrine, whereas a dictator would not hesitate in any way.

Although, I can definitely see ignorance is strength as being the mantra of the modern American right wing Christian movement.

If you haven't read it, you might be interested in The Eliminationists by David Niewert, which largely deals with proto-fascist movements in the US.

*It wasn't assigned in any of my high school English classes, but I read it on my own when I was 17.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 17, 2010 9:09 AM

If David had leapt across the table to throttle ODS, we would have had to leave a much bigger tip. :)

Had an absolutely fantastic time with everyone yesterday. Pharyngulites are a pretty fucking awesome group of people.

Posted by: JeffreyD | October 17, 2010 10:02 AM

broboxley: The next time he called in because his systems were hosed I had to refer him to the Alaskan Assassin because I was busy.

John M

I take it that by that you mean you lied to him about being busy and directed him to someone who would cause him problems as revenge for his racist attitude?
Says a lot about you.

Yeps, says I may have misjudged broboxley in the past and may start reading him more closely now. On the other hand, this and the following say I should confirm my previous opinion of John.

Posted by: JeffreyD | October 17, 2010 10:13 AM

ODS - more or less, darlin' daughter. Still not doing superbly well, but a little more willing to interact with humans and the sub species of same. (smile)

Hugs back, hon!

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 10:20 AM

Good to see you back, Jeffrey.

Posted by: sandihj | October 17, 2010 10:28 AM

Not caught up on the thread, but I was reading the Nisbet/accomodationist thread, and feel the need to make the following clear:
sandiseattle =/= sandihj
Chicago is a long way from Seattle, and my attitudes are a long way from hers.
Off to get breakfast and groceries now, but I'll catch up with you threadizens later today.

Posted by: co | October 17, 2010 10:33 AM

llewelly, #425,

When I got the test back, I had been given a perfect score, despite having twice referred to "Big Brother" as "The Lords Protector".

Thanks for that. I just laughed milk through my nose.

As I wasn't drinking milk, I take it this was a bad thing. Back later.

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 17, 2010 10:47 AM

Walton, is that maternal leave, or parental leave? I can't remember where Britain is in terms of finally instituting parental leave, but something tells me dads don't get 14 months. So if they really feel the need to give infants more time with their parents, they should give those additional 6 months to fathers (or better yet, scrap maternal leave and replace it with parental leave, since the strict gender divisions on who gets how much time off disadvantages single parents), instead of entrenching the view that women are for taking care of babies.

Also, 20 months seem mildly excessive for a single person... my mom had 3 years of maternal leave and she felt her brain was shrinking from insufficient contact with adults. There seriously are better arrangements than locking women away from the professional world for almost two years: split parental leave, part-time arrangements, work-from-home arrangements, etc.

Posted by: llewelly | October 17, 2010 10:54 AM

broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 10:20 AM:

question for the crew

That link seems to be saying that cooking destroys the iodine in iodized salt. I still don't understand why humans would have evolved a need for an element that doesn't naturally appear in their food.

from a food writer

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 17, 2010 10:59 AM

Walton:

It's interesting how "Orwellian" has entered the lexicon, considering, of course, that it wasn't his real name (he was actually Eric Arthur Blair, which I think is a better-sounding name than George Orwell... but then, I have weird aesthetic preferences when it comes to names. I don't like my own name much.)

In context, using his given name wouldn't make any damned sense.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 11:09 AM

Need. Diet. Cola. Now.

I've run out of coffee too. Better go to the store before it closes. (Damn early Sunday closing... yet another reason to dislike religion.)

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 17, 2010 11:12 AM

It's interesting how "Orwellian" has entered the lexicon, considering, of course, that it wasn't his real name (he was actually Eric Arthur Blair

Posted by: boygenius | October 17, 2010 11:21 AM

The thought of me being shut up in a house with an infant should scare the whole world.

I had some friends over for dinner recently. They went out to the back porch to have a smoke and left their infant son in the stroller parked right next to me. They were only gone for 10 minutes. The kid was asleep the whole time. I still freaked out.

When the parents came back in, I told them in no uncertain terms to never do that to me again. They thought I was kidding, so I reached over and pinched the baby as hard as I could. (OK, I didn't really pinch the baby, but the thought flashed through my mind as a good way to let the parents know I was serious.)

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death | October 17, 2010 11:26 AM

it would not matter if every other human being on the planet thought the same way. What I find dishonourable, I find dishonourable.

Translation: I can't be bothered to look into things further, whether I've offended someone or I'm overreacting to a perceived offense. How I feel is right.

FTR, some people out there have managed to deepen their understanding of what they find dishonorable through their interaction with different people and certain amounts of self-reflection. Think of all the former fundies who were truly offended by the existence of gay people.

One's initial reaction is not automatically the moral high position.

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan | October 17, 2010 11:40 AM

broboxley, was that client of yours one of those thick-headed twerps who wouldn't believe he was wrong even if you had proof on video? Also, what he said about hiring yupik speakers is not only racist, but sexist. Double the offense. I don't recall electrical supply/hardware stores being anything like a Hooters.

The best part is that your nephew now has a good job and he didn't even have to put up with that fuckwit for a week or even a day past the initial interview.

Posted by: llewelly | October 17, 2010 12:04 PM

Walton | October 17, 2010 10:48 AM: I've never actually read 1984.

Posted by: llewelly | October 17, 2010 12:18 PM

Jadehawk, OM | October 17, 2010 10:47 AM:

... Britain is in terms of finally instituting parental leave, but something tells me dads don't get 14 months. ... Also, 20 months seem mildly excessive for a single person...

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 17, 2010 12:27 PM

that's what i get for posting before coffee *shrug*

Posted by: KG | October 17, 2010 1:07 PM

I disagree with llewelly's view of 1984 as fiction, although of course it's not a realistic picture of a totalitarian state. It's a long time since I read it, but many of the scenes, and the ideas, remain vividly present in my mind. Orwell could coin a phrase, too: "Big Brother", "Room 101", "Newspeak", "The Memory Hole", "doublethink", "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength". It is, specifically, and like Animal Farm, a satire on and caricature of Stalinism (very different in its inner workings from fascism), not just totalitarianism in general.

Hi, JeffreyD, good to see you back, I was just wondering today where you'd got to!

Posted by: monado | October 17, 2010 1:37 PM

I hate to say it, but this 1899 law stating it's illegal to have an abortion even if you're not pregnant reminds me of local laws that you can be arrested for possession of drugs even if you don't have any drugs, just oregano or the like.

Posted by: Bone Oboe | October 17, 2010 1:56 PM

Been working on catching up on the never ending threads; caught Benjamin "Dorktopus" Geiger up @ #36.

"Hey Ben! You just lost 17 pounds! What are you gonna do next?"
"I'M GOING TO DISNEY WORLD!"
Seriously, I'm going to Epcot tomorrow.

Congrats on the weight loss. But, back to the reason for my snouting into the thread:

Epcot

I was reminded of this John Pinette bit about being dragged to Disney World, in August.

October/November should be fine.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | October 17, 2010 2:06 PM

On that note:
As with everything, dealing with food is not black and white. Feeling guilty about eating an entire chocolate cake? Probably not a bad reaction. Feeling guilty about one piece? Not exactly a healthy attitude.

I'm also not someone who associates food with guilt. True, I tend to be on the opposite end of the spectrum (I overindulge), but I don't spend time hating myself for it.

*shrugs*

Posted by: monado | October 17, 2010 2:10 PM

About the "reactions to abortion" statistic, I found one site that had extensive survey, e.g. "before my abortion I was religious" and listed a number of possible reactions for people to tick off; however, oddly, *relieved* wasn't one of them. I also found a link to an actual research paper that said (1) the dominant reaction was relief and (2) more than 90% of women believed that having an abortion had been the right decision.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 17, 2010 2:38 PM

monado:

Bill Dauphin, in the U.S. for the last 20 years or so, Catholics have been using birth control as much as non-Catholics; however, it's sure to be different in other countries.

I'm quite sure the extent to which folks take church doctrine — particularly around matters of sexuality and reproduction — seriously in their daily lives varies, and is likely strongly correlated to class, education, and national/ethnic culture. That's why I was careful to make clear that I was speaking out of a specifically American middle-class (and college-educated) experience.

I just meant to be saying that it was a mistake to assume that individual Catholics are comparable to Quiverfull fanatics, based simply on a strict reading of the letter of church doctrine.

More generally, I suspect the statement "[Church members] believe [formal church doctrine] about [category of human behavior]." is almost always less than 100% true, with the size of the gap being dependent on all the factors above, and proportional to the degree the prescribed behavior is contrary to basic human nature. (And IMHO, perverse restrictions or prohibitions regarding sexual expression are about as contrary to human nature as you can get.)

IOW, just 'cuz the church teaches it, don't assume the "faithful" are doing it. Or even care about it much.

On a similar note, as a convert to Catholicism (long story; don't ask), I found that lifelong Catholics often knew far less about the church's actual theology than I did... because I had to study it to get in, and they generally didn't (homilies in parish churches are generally not rigorous lessons in theology, and "Sunday school" is often more like babysitting). Something like this may happen with populations as well: Christian populations that have been converted through evangelism in their fairly recent past (e.g., pretty much all Christians in Africa and Asia) may pay more attention to the strict doctrines and theological assertions than those for whom Christianity (or a particular flavor of it) has been inherited as just another aspect of national culture. See also the vast difference in attitudes about homosexuality between Anglicans and Episcopalians in the UK and U.S. versus the rest of the global Anglican communion.

None of this exonerates religion, per se: Belief in any sort of deity is still irrational woo. But it's a mistake, I think, in terms of practical decisions about how to respond to them, to paint everyone who self identifies as affiliated with any religion as being as crazy as the radically dedicated theological ideologues are.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | October 17, 2010 2:52 PM

Nerd of Redhead, just out of curiosity, why would the titanium implant be changed?

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | October 17, 2010 3:20 PM

My feet are not particularly happy with me. I walked at least four miles, and quite probably much, much more. My iPod Nano makes a really crappy pedometer.

I ate much less at Epcot than I thought I would, primarily due to the ridiculously long lines at Food and Wine Festival kiosks. My lunch was heartier than I would have had, had I been tracking points: I had a pork chop with (excellent) mashed potatoes and fruit compote, and a California roll. Dinner was likewise hearty: teriyaki chicken, sukiyaki beef, a piece of tempura shrimp, and rice, with a bowl of miso soup. But, combine that with the cheddar cheese soup (from the Canada kiosk), the golabki (from the Poland kiosk), and the chocolate cake roulade (from the counter service location in the Germany pavilion), plus the two cereal bars I ate before I arrived, and I probably still came in close to my points limit. (I wanted escargot, but the line to the France kiosk was longer than the ropes they had set up, and was moving at (pun intended) a snail's pace.)

My tripod only barely fit into a large locker; I had to take the head off to make it fit at all... but it was worth $9 not to have to carry it around all day, or walk back to the car twice. I carried my monopod all day, strapped to my belt. (I used wire ties to attach a carabiner to it, so I could clip it to my belt instead of carrying it. The security guard checking bags asked what it was for, and a few people said they had never heard of a monopod, but apparently nobody else considered it a possible weapon, as baton-like as it happens to look.)

Before next time, I'm going to find, or make, a belt pouch for my camera, instead of having to take off my backpack every time I want to get the camera out or put it back. I spent most of the day with either my 28mm or 50mm lens mounted; I did shoot a few flower photos while waiting for entry with my 100mm macro, but took it back off before the park opened.

So now I have eight blisters and sore legs, and my wallet is about $80 lighter... but it was so worth it.

Posted by: Chgo_Liz | October 17, 2010 3:22 PM

I just realize what a non sequitor my previous post was.

No idea why. Sorry, Bill.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 17, 2010 3:31 PM

A manifesto from Bishop John Shelby Spong:
Excerpts:

.... I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility. I will no longer discuss with them or listen to them tell me how homosexuality is "an abomination to God," about how homosexuality is a "chosen lifestyle," or about how through prayer and "spiritual counseling" homosexual persons can be "cured." ...
      I will no longer listen to that pious sentimentality that certain Christian leaders continue to employ, which suggests some version of that strange and overtly dishonest phrase that "we love the sinner but hate the sin." That statement is, I have concluded, nothing more than a self-serving lie designed to cover the fact that these people hate homosexual persons and fear homosexuality itself, but somehow know that hatred is incompatible with the Christ they claim to profess, so they adopt this face-saving and absolutely false statement.
      will no longer temper my understanding of truth in order to pretend that I have even a tiny smidgen of respect for the appalling negativity that continues to emanate from religious circles where the church has for centuries conveniently perfumed its ongoing prejudices against blacks, Jews, women and homosexual persons with what it assumes is "high-sounding, pious rhetoric." ...
     In my personal life, I will no longer listen to televised debates conducted by "fair-minded" channels that seek to give "both sides" of this issue "equal time." I am aware that these stations no longer give equal time to the advocates of treating women as if they are the property of men or to the advocates of reinstating either segregation or slavery, despite the fact that when these evil institutions were coming to an end the Bible was still being quoted frequently on each of these subjects. It is time for the media to announce that there are no longer two sides to the issue of full humanity for gay and lesbian people. There is no way that justice for homosexual people can be compromised any longer.
     I will no longer act as if the Papal office is to be respected if the present occupant of that office is either not willing or not able to inform and educate himself on public issues on which he dares to speak with embarrassing ineptitude. I will no longer be respectful of the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury, who seems to believe that rude behavior, intolerance and even killing prejudice is somehow acceptable ... I will dismiss as unworthy of any more of my attention the wild, false and uninformed opinions of such would-be religious leaders as Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Albert Mohler, and Robert Duncan....
      There is no reasonable doubt as to what the final outcome of this struggle will be. Homosexual people will be accepted as equal, full human beings, who have a legitimate claim on every right that both church and society have to offer any of us. Homosexual marriages will become legal, recognized by the state and pronounced holy by the church. "Don't ask, don't tell" will be dismantled as the policy of our armed forces. We will and we must learn that equality of citizenship is not something that should ever be submitted to a referendum. ...
     Life moves on. As the poet James Russell Lowell once put it more than a century ago: "New occasions teach new duties, Time makes ancient good uncouth." I am ready now to claim the victory. I will from now on assume it and live into it....

Posted by: MrFire | October 17, 2010 4:02 PM

I had my first Stone's Arrogant Bastard.

Some thoughts:

1. HOLY SHIT
2. HOLY SHIT
3. *angelic chorus*
4. HOLY SHIT
5. Like liquid hops. Goddamn beautiful liquid hops. Almost syrupy, for Chrissakes.
6. Beautiful, aromatic mouthful, then intense, cleansing bitterness.
7. HOLY SHIT

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 17, 2010 4:12 PM

(I'm on the far right of that last one.)

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | October 17, 2010 4:15 PM

Ol' Greg:

Thanks.

And, one more. This is quite possibly my favorite shot of the whole day, and it was impromptu. (I was walking back to the lockers to retrieve my tripod, when I noticed the composition. If I'd been thinking, I would've stopped on the way back and gotten a longer exposure with the tripod. As it stands, a monopod did well enough, though.)

I think that'll be one of the photos I submit to my photo club this month.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | October 17, 2010 4:23 PM

I had my first Stone's Arrogant Bastard.

Some thoughts:

1. HOLY SHIT

I'm a huge bitter fan, so I'll be on the lookout for that!

Posted by: pcarini | October 17, 2010 4:32 PM

The Rev. BDC should be on commission.

Ah, figures that it was Rev. BDC. I find it scary how often his sensibilities and mine line up.

The question, then, is: BDC! What is best in life?

Turns out I can't get Arrogant Bastard anywhere in Utah, nor can I have it shipped in. I'll have to venture out of state to try it.

Posted by: Kristjan Wager | October 17, 2010 4:40 PM

MrFire, you're being a bit vague, but I get the impression that you might drink that particular brand of ale again, is that right?

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | October 17, 2010 4:43 PM

I had my first Stone's Arrogant Bastard.

Some thoughts:

1. HOLY SHIT
2. HOLY SHIT
3. *angelic chorus*

I absolutely love^* Arrogant Bastard.

You should try Oaked Arrogant Bastard. For when too much isn't enough.

* Yeah. I posted a link to my own blog. Sue me.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 4:47 PM

Following on from what we were discussing on the last subThread (?) about the treatment of refugees and asylum-seekers... I went along to a Student Action for Refugees meeting this evening.

The depressing thing is how small the group is. Very few of the British public are actually aware of just how badly asylum-seekers are treated in the UK. (Asylum-seekers, including children, are detained, often for years at a time, in "administrative detention", in overcrowded and very poor conditions, while their claims are processed. They often have little or no legal advice or access to translation: and the legal aid budget is currently being cut drastically, so this is only going to get worse.) Unfortunately, the majority of the public seem to swallow the lies in the right-wing press, and very few people realise how awful the situation is.

And it's also depressing how hard it is to do anything about it. By all accounts, it's incredibly difficult even to get to visit a detention centre (there are lots of bureaucratic hurdles, and apparently STAR members have been banned from visiting in the past for being "too political"). There are regular protests outside Campsfield House (the asylum detention centre near Oxford), in which I'm planning to participate: but it seems to fall on deaf ears, as far as government policy is concerned. But I'm really hoping to get to work in immigration law eventually, for at least part of my career, so that I can do something more direct to help.

Apologies for derailing the thread (and I realise this doesn't have much relevance to non-British readers). But I think it's really important to talk about this situation, if only because it's a pretty horrific and systematic abuse of human rights that's happening right under our noses, and about which the majority of people, evidently, either don't know or don't give a shit. (And very similar stuff is happening in other countries: in fact, from what I've heard about it, the French asylum detention system is much more abusive than the British one. I don't know much about the situation with asylum-seekers in the US, but I doubt it's very much better.)

(These are the times when I wish I still had a blog... I know the Endless Thread isn't the right place to post a rant like this. But I just had to say it somewhere.)

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death | October 17, 2010 4:52 PM

Friday. 24 minutes until my training-shortened weekend. Yuengling Black & Tan, here I come.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 5:02 PM

As an addendum to #486: What also pisses me off is that, as far as I can tell, few or no libertarian activists seem to be interested in this issue. All the people I've encountered so far who campaign for refugee rights seem to be on the political left.

Honest and consistent libertarians ought to be campaigning for civil liberties for the groups that are poor, powerless and marginalised. The way the UK treats refugees and asylum-seekers is a particularly horrific instance of systematic, brutal government oppression. People who seriously care about individual freedom ought to be putting this issue right at the top of the agenda.

But refugee rights seems to be stereotyped as a "left-wing" issue, and it is, indeed, mostly people on the left who are putting the work into campaigning for refugee rights. By contrast, many vocal libertarians seem to be more bothered about opposing income tax rises and smoking bans in bars, and other freedom-issues that happen to affect middle- and upper-class privileged people.

I realise I'm generalising, and perhaps being pretty unfair to some libertarians... but given that I still (vaguely) self-identify as a libertarian, it pisses me off when you get self-proclaimed "libertarians" who largely ignore the really big issues of government oppression and brutality, and instead just blither on about taxes all the time. /rant

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | October 17, 2010 5:07 PM

As an addendum to #486: What also pisses me off is that, as far as I can tell, few or no libertarian activists seem to be interested in this issue. All the people I've encountered so far who campaign for refugee rights seem to be on the political left.

That's not surprising. In my experience, libertarians often talk about how everything should be left up to the individual, because that's most fair. But then they rarely get involved in ensuring life truly is fair.

At least, that's been my perception.

Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées | October 17, 2010 5:37 PM

Ben:

Before next time, I'm going to find, or make, a belt pouch for my camera, instead of having to take off my backpack every time I want to get the camera out or put it back.

I got the 300 model, which holds my camera and all of my lenses. If I had it to do again, though, I'd have probably gotten something a little bigger so it could replace my purse, too.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage | October 17, 2010 5:45 PM

chgo_liz (@467 & 468):

No worries; I came this close to making precisely that analogy myself. I only edited it out because my comment was already getting into tl;dr territory, and it was tangential to my main point.

But this is conversation, after all; going off on tangents is A Feature, Not a Bug!™

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 17, 2010 5:54 PM

I always wondered: what does a Libertarian do if their philosophy loses out to socialism in the marketplace of ideas?

Say it wasn't a true Scotsman free market. Then reveal their ignorance of economics, history and basic human behavior while whining about taxes.

Posted by: MrFire | October 17, 2010 6:02 PM

Exactly. I thought it would be a little ironic.

Posted by: SC OM | October 17, 2010 6:16 PM

And Walton moves one small step closer to anarchism....

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | October 17, 2010 6:36 PM

Unless someone is coming for criminal activity there should be no checks or interference

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 17, 2010 6:42 PM

libertarians believe in a free market, free movement of capital and labor, which should be expressed by completely open borders for those who want to move their personal capital for advantage. Unless someone is coming for criminal activity there should be no checks or interference

Exactly! And I agree with that 100 percent. Nationality discrimination is arbitrary and ridiculous; I'd like to see a world with open borders.

Which is why I'm wondering why libertarians here (in the UK) aren't speaking out much more actively against the horrific and abusive way our government treats refugees and asylum-seekers. (Which is probably the single worst systematic human rights abuse occurring in British society right now.) Or about the arbitrary quotas recently imposed on immigration from outside the EU.

Since, as you rightly point out, libertarians believe in open borders and freedom to immigrate, I'd argue that libertarians ought to be campaigning much more on these issues. Yet it seems - in the UK, at least - that most of the people campaigning for refugee rights and open borders tend to be on the political left. Most libertarian activists here simply seem to be ignoring the issue.

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom | October 17, 2010 6:47 PM

I realise I'm generalising, and perhaps being pretty unfair to some libertarians... but given that I still (vaguely) self-identify as a libertarian, it pisses me off when you get self-proclaimed "libertarians" who largely ignore the really big issues of government oppression and brutality, and instead just blither on about taxes all the time. /rant

Posted by: broboxley OT | October 17, 2010 7:20 PM

Cannabinaceae could you please describe what you mean by externalities vs non-externalities

Posted by: Cannabinaceae | October 17, 2010 7:47 PM

By externalities, I mean the kinds of things they say are externalities in the one economics class I took (which was macroeconomics).

As I intimated before my opinion is rather vague and I think successful communication on the topic is vastly more difficult than successful communication between people who actually largely agree, which is already rather difficult, in my experience.

One example is lighthouses, a public good, and anything else subject to the free rider effect. Another example is habitat destruction and pollution, in which plunder and sabotage (sometimes unintentional or unobserved) do not exact a price from the pirate or saboteur without state intervention, which also is typically unable to repair damage.

Anyway, my vague opinion is that actual reality is composed mainly of externality type stuff, which means that the free market is just a minor component, rather than the sine qua non. My impression is that libertarians treat the free market as sine qua non.

The communications problem I refer to, in my vague imaginings, is due at least in part to the lack of any kind of cognitive science theory of consciousness that can contribute to economic theory.

So if I was going to be provocative, I'd probably say something along the lines of "libertarianism is a category error" but I have only a spectator's association with professional philosophy, so I'm sure I'd be walking into a pedant's trap if I seriously tried to assert such a thing.

Anyway, now I'm going to be whipping up some Garlic Infused Oregonian Style Popcorn and watching a "Sergeant Hathaway" with W.U. (I'm betting I defend in December; only after that will I devote serious time to my Cook's Illustrated style writeup). I probably won't be coming back to The Thread for several quadruple hours.

Ah, "Maine Root" is the new brand of Root Beer I found. I will be tasting it tonight for the first time.

Posted by: heatherly | October 17, 2010 7:57 PM

I am home after the Rhinebeck weekend and all I can say is: I can't wait for next year!

East coast peoples, please be aware there are plots afoot for another meet-up. You will be attending. Resistance is futile.

Notes:
--Sheep and wool are a lot more fascinating than I ever imagined.
--If you must sit for five hours in traffic and drive from Maryland to New York & back, I recommend doing so with Mattir, Reality Enforcer, and Mara, Friend of Mattir (who is now an honorary Pharyngulite, at the least). Hilarity and hijinks galore.
--David MF Marjanović does NOT have glowing red demon eyes IRL, but green ones. Slightly disappointing--but he is still mother fucking awesome. ;)
--Related to that, I now can pretend to have some knowledge of Lissamphibia and the origin of amphibians--at least until asked more in-depth questions!
--Our Dead Selves is just as clever at hiding her Mother of Death bad-ass qualities to mundanes as Carlie is at hiding all the deluded buffoons--but we could all see the awesome.
--JackC attempted to blind us with science the flash on his camera, but the results were worth it, and he was sweet enough to print copies for us today!

I also wanted to say thank you to everyone who supported me with my mobility issues. Mattir, David, Mara & Reality Enforcer convinced me to use a scooter at the festival. Because of that, I got to see all of the festival, spend too much money, learn about fiber and have a blast--instead of doing an hour of the festival and then waiting the rest of the day in the car, which is what would have happened if I'd tried to use the cane. The pub we found after dinner originally only had a downstairs table, which I wouldn't have been able to reach. Carlie got them to find us a first floor table and everyone told me not to be an idiot and be ashamed about it. :)
You all made the weekend a very different experience from a previous trip, and I can't thank you enough.

I had an absolutely wonderful time and can't wait to see folks again--and I'll see some of you in two weeks at the Rally to Restore Sanity!

Now I am off to bed, and tomorrow I shall rest & recuperate--and catch up on the Thread. Nite!

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 17, 2010 9:26 PM

...Is it just me or do only the fundie conservatards whine about judges "legislating from the bench" when court rulings don't allow them to step on other people's rights?

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | October 17, 2010 9:42 PM

OK, so here's the TL;DR scoop on the David MF Marjanović weekend. DaughterSpawn and I picked him up on Thursday and went to the Smithsonian for a little over an hour, where he critiqued the limb positions of the displayed fossils while acting out the positioning with his own arms. Also, we discovered this excellent sentence in a display about baby dinosaurs:

Baby dinosaurs are a neccessary prelude to, and product of, adult dinosaurs.

WTF???

After dinner, we were treated to a talk on the evolution of lissamphibians, of which DaughterSpawn and I understood about 30%. Fortunately, after a couple of days of myelination or connection growing or sheep fur, we were able to up the percentage to perhaps 70% when he repeated the presentation this morning.

The Sheep & Wool part of the weekend was fantastic, with David testing out every type of fiber for sale by rubbing it on his neck to see if it was itchy. I've actually never met anyone quite as knowledgeable about such a broad range of topics or as curious about new topics - wandering through the vendor halls exploring was great fun. Also he got to see DaughterSpawn restrained from punching a fundie kid who asked about the I've been touched by His Noodly Appendage button on her purse. After she explained about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the kid said "Well, I think if they're going to teach evolution, they should have to teach the other side." The other girl's mom and I intervened pronto, looked at each other, and said "Yes, here it's all about the sheep."

I'd figured that between the apparent enthusiasm for fiber fondling and the weird history-of-technology aspects of spinning and weaving, David would enjoy learning to spin, so after lunch, we spent the afternoon sitting in the food hall spinning and listening to a talk on the invention of the spinning wheel in China between in the 8th to the 3rd century BCE. To go along with his amazing plate-cleaning skills, he has some seriously nimble fingers and as steep a learning curve as one would expect from someone with such badassery. Some nerd-girl out there is in for quite a treat...

The other great part of the day was when we were trooping from the Thai place where we had dinner to search for a bar to hang out afterwards. The walk-signal wasn't coming on, and finally David simply proclaimed "OK, let's just do this in the French manner" and marched across the street, against the light.

I'd like to thank everyone who came to Rhinebeck, and especially Jack C, who volunteered to drive David to the airport today (and who, when I first asked about whether he might be able to put David M up for the weekend, thought I might be referring to Mabus). I had a fantastic time. Last week was pretty tough for a variety of personal reasons, and I would have canceled my plans to go were it not for how it would inconvenience lots of other people. I'm very very glad I didn't.

I'd like to reserve a block of rooms for next year's Rhinebeck, which people can get/pay for on their own. Also a suite room, so we have a space to hang out. Carlie, ODS, and heatherly, does this seem like a good idea? And David M., if you're at the SVP conference next year, can we impose upon you to grace us with your presence at Rhinebeck again? Anyone else want to make plans to go? I think Rhinebeck is better than Maryland Sheep & Wool - it has more for non-fiber people to do, including wine tastings and amazing food, and is in a prettier place. Patricia Ignorant Slut? reeddhl? Anyone else?

David, thank you so much for agreeing to visit Strange Homeschoolers from the Internet™. It feels rather like I've acquired a cousin or something who knows a lot about just about everything. We will definitely have to visit again...

Posted by: Mattir-ritated | October 17, 2010 9:55 PM

Also, my friend Mara did an astonishing job of putting up with among the most hideous traffic nightmares I've experienced on the I-95 corridor: 4 hours to get from Baltimore to the Delaware state line (a 45 minute trip under normal conditions). The discussion of Walton's weight and physician aversion probably did not help.

It was helped when she bought a Merlin Road Bug spinning wheel at the fair, which can be steampunked into a Rotary Sheep Reducer.

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 17, 2010 9:59 PM

When someone talks about "legislating from the bench" and "activist judges" they mean "some judge made a decision I don't like."

And a "communist" is "some politician I don't like".

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 17, 2010 10:05 PM

And a "communist" is "some politician I don't like".

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier | October 17, 2010 10:09 PM

I thought that it was "socialist", since using "communist" will get one accused of being a McCarthyist...

No, "socialist", "communist" and "fascist" can be used interchangeably.

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | October 17, 2010 10:15 PM

"Atheist" also seems to be growing in popularity...

Wait. I thought that was "Godless liberal?"

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | October 17, 2010 10:24 PM

Not for the 'spiritual' (blech) types, or the accommodationists.

Oh! Yeah. I forgot about them.

They're the quiet minority, aren't they?

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | October 17, 2010 10:29 PM

Baby dinosaurs are a neccessary prelude to, and product of, adult dinosaurs.

WTF???

When a daddy dinosaur and a mommy dinosaur love each other very much....

Posted by: areyoulistening | October 17, 2010 10:35 PM

nigelTheBold #530:

Oh! Yeah. I forgot about them.

They're the quiet minority, aren't they?
No no, they're the majority, and all the godbots in/running for office are just the extremist minority!

Side note: has anyone else read Coyne's response to PZ's eight reasons? I want to know if I'm correct on Coyne's 'definition' for god being incoherent and thus bringing down his entire argument due to a lack of a coherent god hypothesis.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 17, 2010 10:36 PM

I am totally in to do the wool festival again next year. And making it a hotel slumber party sounds awesome. Mr.ODS and Mara and the JackC family were great about putting up with all of us.

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | October 17, 2010 11:28 PM

Hey! Whattaya know! Humanity will need two earths before too long, just to carry on like we've been carrying on.

Not like I'm surprised.

So. Any of y'all have a spare earth in your attic, or basement, or even just trundling around at the bottom of your purse? If so, you might be able to help out.

Otherwise, we're pretty much fucked.

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings | October 17, 2010 11:39 PM

I did my part, I didn't breed.

I did. I had a daughter. It seems so innocuous, doesn't it? One kid, between three people. Not a big deal.

I think humanity needs an exit strategy.

Posted by: monado | October 17, 2010 11:56 PM

Personally, I think that candying bacon is akin to gilding refined gold or painting the lily.

Elf names? I knew someone who ran names like Surriel and Unriel.

Posted by: Chgo_Liz | October 18, 2010 12:19 AM

Mattir, Carlie, ODS, heatherly, and David:

I am green with envy. There's just no other way to put it. Still, don't stop telling us all about what a wonderful time you had.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | October 18, 2010 12:30 AM

Nigel:

I did. I had a daughter. It seems so innocuous, doesn't it? One kid, between three people. Not a big deal.

You did good. Look at people like the Duggars and all the other Quiverfull folk. Those people, they have a lot to answer for. It's not like they had seriously bad circumstances and had no choice when it came to breeding. We're surrounded by idiots.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | October 18, 2010 12:45 AM

chgo_liz:

I'd argue that having one or a few children who will be part of the solution is a good thing.

Sure, but the majority of those children won't be part of the solution.

It's not just the quiverfull types, it's people in parts of the world who don't have access to education, birth control, etc. Also, religion does its absolute best to stomp all over those in certain parts of the world who might even dare to look to contraception or education. The toxicity is rampant, between those who would deny anything is wrong and those who actively try to keep people in a past era.

We've already gone well past the amount of people we should have; people aren't going to stop breeding or sucking up resources. We're in trouble, and people are still busy denying that fact. Look at all the people who refuse to look at global warming.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 18, 2010 1:14 AM

Why, if god is omnipotent and omniscient, does the bass clef have the notes on different lines from the treble clef? I find this extremely confusing.

Posted by: Randy (not Randy) | October 18, 2010 1:28 AM

Because both the Treble and the Bass clefs are coming at the same point from different directions.

That high C that lives on the first ledger line above the bass staff is the exact same note as the low C that lives on the first ledger line below the treble staff.

Wow, $80,000 worth of education does pay off for something.

Posted by: jennyxyzzy | October 18, 2010 2:02 AM

Ugh. Just bumped into this from the NYT:

Clifford Stanley, the under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness, said in a court filing that ending the antigay policy would require training, and reworking regulations on issues like housing, benefits and standards of conduct. He said the Army had to consider the “rights and obligations of the chaplain corps.” Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said the military had to consider whether barracks should be segregated and whether partners of gay soldiers should have benefits.

Say what? We have to consider the rights and obligations of the chaplains??? I don't think I've ever heard a stupider justification for DADT than that.

Posted by: monado | October 18, 2010 2:39 AM

Sili, I agree that it seems irrelevant. I never paid any attention until one day my fudge wouldn't solidify... but I only read it in a cookbook, which is a weak authority.

Posted by: windy | October 18, 2010 3:30 AM

And David M., if you're at the SVP conference next year, can we impose upon you to grace us with your presence at Rhinebeck again?

Looks like SVP is going to Vegas next year...

Posted by: 34jlg34 | October 18, 2010 3:58 AM

@Rorschach

I'm hoping to.
Damn. I just checked. It's during "school".
Sorry i probably can't go.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 18, 2010 4:06 AM

That high C that lives on the first ledger line above the bass staff is the exact same note as the low C that lives on the first ledger line below the treble staff.

In my understanding (if I remember my music history classes correctly...) they were originally a single giant stave, called the "grand stave", and only became separated into two later.

(I used to play flute and piano, so there was a time when I knew a fair amount about music theory. Though I've probably forgotten much of it.)

To make things even more confusing, of course, there's the alto and tenor clefs. :-) I never really learned to read those though, as I didn't play any instruments that use them.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | October 18, 2010 5:05 AM

Goddamnit. Anyone know of something nonconductive (heat, not electricity) that can easily be found around the house to protect one's hand?

Ahem:



Ovengloves

*hides behind desk, goes back to work*

Posted by: or a qat | October 18, 2010 6:02 AM

Walton: Please go see your doctor. It can't still be Sunday where you are. It hurts me to read your posts without any medical professional input direct to your case. I love your contributions to the thread, but i can't enjoy them when I know you are ignoring your health.

Posted by: Katharine | October 18, 2010 6:05 AM

My neighbor's laptop was in my neighbor's car.

A whole bunch of cars in my neighborhood got hit.

Posted by: SC OM | October 18, 2010 7:05 AM

Fake AP Stylebook:

"The correct plural of ocelot is oceshitload. Ocefuckton is vulgar and should be avoided."

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | October 18, 2010 8:08 AM

Good news (for otters at least)
And good(ish) news for the rest of us

My engineer part would love to see the Severn barrage project go ahead, but the rest of me is quite pleased that new nuclear build seems be prefered. Despite working for a company that stands to benifit hugely from offshore wind expansion, I'm still very skeptical about it's viability.
In reality, I'm pretty sure that we'll need to use all of these tecchnologies if we are to avoid catastrophe.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 18, 2010 8:14 AM

Walton: Please go see your doctor. It can't still be Sunday where you are. It hurts me to read your posts without any medical professional input direct to your case. I love your contributions to the thread, but i can't enjoy them when I know you are ignoring your health.

I'm fine. Honestly. Actually... as it happens, I'm in an awesomely good mood today. :-)

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | October 18, 2010 8:27 AM

Walton
You said that you would arrange an appointment with your GP today (Monday).

Have you done so?
If not, why not?

*/nanny* concerned of Helston

Posted by: Jessa | October 18, 2010 8:40 AM

Walton,

I'm glad to hear that you're feeling well today.

So, have you contacted your doctor yet? If not, expect a barrage of incoming halibut from the Pharyngulaunts and Pharynguncles.

Posted by: Triskelethecat | October 18, 2010 8:49 AM

@Carlie, Mattie, David M, DaughterSpawn, Heatherly, etc: it was a lot of fun meeting you even though I had to run away very early. The plague has hit the house and I am wearing garlic hoping that it works as well against hideousness as it does against vampires. I am avoiding family members as much as possible in hopes that I don't succumb also (I only have 2 sick/vacation days left for the calendar year and I prefer to use them for Xmas shopping instead of being in bed sick whenever possible).

I'm up for a weekend next year, and a hotel to avoid a drive. The food was good, the sights were fun and I would have loved more time to explore, play, learn to knit/spin/whatever, and hang out with the Pharyngulistas. The sweater I bought for my eldest's boyfriend is a big hit here and I'm hoping the hot sauces are good at keeping germs at bay!

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | October 18, 2010 8:56 AM

OTOH if we keep on keeping on, maybe he'll get really pissed off and GO TO THE FUCKING DOCTOR just to shut us up.

Just an(other) ideal*, you kmow.


*Sorry about that, should be idea, but my inner bristolian wants out.

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Pissant Haberdasher | October 18, 2010 9:17 AM

Hi Jeffrey!
(I havn't caught up yet and I didn't see you there)


I like the sound of the venereal disease idea, something really unpleasant and obviously self inflicted should reduce any lingering sympathy quite nicely. Perhaps we could hint a loathsome and socially reprehensible skin complaint as well?
It's that or just send the little shit to the naughty step and ignore him until he complies.

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas | October 18, 2010 9:29 AM

*hugs* Jeffrey, it's good to see you back on the Thread.

Sorry to hear about your ongoing mobility problems. I hope things improve... do keep us updated.

And I should reassure you that I don't have venereal disease. :-)

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. | October 18, 2010 9:31 AM

@485, looks as if the notorious Nigerian bank scam has claimed another victim. You'd think that by now, everyone who doesn't live in a cave would be able to spot the symptoms.

Posted by: Birger Johansson | October 18, 2010 9:59 AM

Mr Fire @ 587: This is not the time to stand on pronciple -instead let the GOP experience what it is to be on the receiving end of this kind of tactics!
I admit it is ethically suboptimal, but the alternative is to hand over the congress to a bunch of (insert term for people who lie shamelessly, despise science, are willing to sacrifice the planetary climate stability for money, persecute unbeleivers and think it is OK to let teenagers die of AIDS instead of giving them proper sex education).

Let's by all means imply that (insert name of hypocrite) is hiring young boys to "help him carry his luggage" if you can get away with it.
These are the tactics Lee Atwater and later Carl Rove have used to get destroy both Republican and Democrat rivals, and the GOP deserves to be relentlessly attacked until they realise political total war is a very bad idea.

Posted by: SC OM | October 18, 2010 10:26 AM

*I have not the time to catch up on the thread, so will assume the problem is a venereal disease and advise everyone of that fact unless you seek needed help.

Welcome back, JeffreyD.

Posted by: Alan B | October 18, 2010 10:51 AM

#543 monado

Alan B, if you need any more rocks, let me know.

That sounds like an offer I can't refuse! What are you suggesting? I have plenty of samples of local rock (West Midlands, UK - notably South Shropshire) but not much in the way of igneous and metamorphic - we were well clear of the worst effects of the Variscan and Calendonian orogenies. We do have some Precambrian stuff.

The West Midlands, and especially the Welsh Marches (England/Wales borderlands), are well known for Ordovician and Silurian rocks and fossils. Several of the major divisions are named after local villages or ancient tribes.

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) | October 18, 2010 11:01 AM

We're having municipal elections today.
I had not to much difficulty deciding on my choice for mayor and ward councillor but I made my school board decision on "the one who didn't mention church affiliation".
-----
My polling station is in a small elementary school. They always have a bake-sale when there is an election. Cookies for breakfast!

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger | October 18, 2010 11:06 AM

MrFire:

Still doesn't hold a candle to Captain EO. (I actually saw that for the first time on Saturday.)

Posted by: KG | October 18, 2010 11:07 AM

Carlie@591,

Even easier than that: in my experience, British GPs' receptionists never ask what the appointment is for.

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold | October 18, 2010 11:11 AM

Even easier than that: in my experience, British GPs' receptionists never ask what the appointment is for.

My experience as well. In fact I would consider it rather unethical for a receptionist to ask.

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | October 18, 2010 11:15 AM

Ah, interesting. I think here in the US it might depend on the office; with some of the doctors I've used, the nurses pull double-duty as phone weeders to figure out who needs an appointment and who doesn't really need to come in, and at some they want to know the basic nature of the appointment to know what size time block to put you in for (a booster shot takes much less time than an annual physical, for example).

Posted by: Falyne, FCD | October 18, 2010 11:21 AM

I can provide some not-Walton medical kvetching, myself.

I woke up Wednesday morning with a rash covering everything (EVERYTHING!) from shoulders to knees. I tried to treat it with OTC cortisone, but it kept spreading over the course of the day. That evening, when it was from elbows to calves, I got myself down to Urgent Care, where I was given 60 mg of prednisone, and prescribed 20mg 2/day of the same for five days (no tapering).

At first, I was a happy puppy. The itching and the angry rash went away pretty damn quickly. But then the mania set in. I've had manic episodes before that were *fun*, but this was the can't-think-can't-focus-can't-sleep very unfun kind of excitability. So, I decided to stop after 3 days. I took both pills Saturday, and none yesterday. Yesterday, I felt *fantastic*, practically back to normal.

Today, I can barely stand. My knees and shins hurt like *hell* when I try and put weight on them. According to the internets, this isn't uncommon with prednisone withdrawal, but that usually happens after longer regimens. I don't know what else it could be, though. In case I *do* need to taper off the dosage, I actually just took half a 20 mg pill.

If I ever get another rash like that, I'mina try OTC antihistamines first. The big guns are a little TOO damn big.

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe | October 18, 2010 11:26 AM

Still I am sure she is willing to let anyone use her toilet, no matter their skin colour or ability to speak German.

quite.

*sigh* what a clusterfuck Germany has become since I moved away...

Posted by: Lynna, OM | October 18, 2010 11:28 AM