…and this is a 
Michael Voris and his Vortex (of Insanity) have been mentioned here before, but now he's profiled on AP News. He really is nuts: he runs a YouTube channel and makes these strange videos where he demands that America become a Catholic dictatorship, all with a straight face.
Last time I mentioned him he got pricked by all our incredulous disgust with the Catholic Taliban, so he even made a clip all about us angry atheists, taking care not to link to any of our sites.
I hope this is representative of a tiny minority in the church, but I don't know…last time I crossed Catholicism I was exposed to all the madness within it, so I'm not so confident that the fascist Voris doesn't have more support than we expect.
Comments
Posted by: Scorpy1
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October 25, 2010 8:38 AM
All I can say is more power to him.
We need more religionistas carrying around swords with un-ironic grins.
The cross-section of the population that would take that seriously is mighty thin.
Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes
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October 25, 2010 8:41 AM
No worries, I live in a country with quite a large catholic population and most are nice people who don't try to take over politically.
I even take my kid to a playgroup set up by the catholic church and no-one ever mentioned as much as god and Jesus except in swearing.
Posted by: Joe Bloe
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October 25, 2010 8:43 AM
He probably thinks that when the Catholics finally take over, he'll be in a position of authority, lording it over everyone - but he'll be right down here with the rest of us, copping shit from his leaders. They won't be sharing their power with anyone!
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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October 25, 2010 8:45 AM
I find it really hard to believe that he's not a satirist. :-/
Posted by: steve
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October 25, 2010 8:45 AM
Boys and girls, can you spell schism ?
Like a supernova, the rcc will expel most of it's more liberal membership and the remaining hard core of fanatics will become increasing less relevant.
Posted by: Blueaussi
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October 25, 2010 8:47 AM
Saw this while scanning the news this morning.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39821248/ns/us_news-life/
Posted by: louis14
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October 25, 2010 8:49 AM
I stuck with it for about 3 minutes. All I heard was accusations that I'm a depraved human being and of course, a threat that I will spend eternity in hell.
He feels he knows me, although if we'd ever met, I'm sure I would have remembered.
Posted by: Victor
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October 25, 2010 8:49 AM
His name alone is creepy: "Michael Voris" just makes me think of a masked serial killer in a horror movie.
Posted by: Jim
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October 25, 2010 8:55 AM
I remember Hitch writing something about the connection between religion and our guilty desire for subjection and abjection. This person doesn't seem to have any apprehensions about his masochistic fantasies. He can't even conceive that anyone else might want to live without perpetual fear of punishment from an absolute dictator.
Posted by: Dianne
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October 25, 2010 8:56 AM
Most Catholics aren't this kind of crazy. But that's not the issue. The issue is are the leaders of the Catholic church this crazy and, if so, are enough Catholics willing to go along with that craziness to enable said leaders to stay in power?
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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October 25, 2010 8:57 AM
Hey Michael Clulis, you may have missed that decade in history class that tells you Cathlicks had their monarchies and absolute control of everything and people died and starved and went batshit crazy anyway. Thanks for playing this week's game of 'What can I say that is totally fucking stupid?'
Like Walton sez, if this guy isn't doing this as a put-on, we need to put him in the feckin' sack and break out the canoe paddles for a royal (or at least monarchist) idiot beating.
Posted by: druss3ll
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October 25, 2010 8:57 AM
My favorite part is at 2:12 when the captions on the screen say "course language" instead of coarse while the speaker simultaneously calls atheists "vocabulary challenged."
Posted by: frustum.myopenid.com
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October 25, 2010 9:00 AM
In my experience growing up in a Catholic family, with hundreds of Catholic relatives, and attending church and CCD, my answer is no, the vast majority of (I can only speak for American) Catholics are not nearly so "enthusiastic" as this nut bag.
American Catholics by and large are passive sheep and go through the motions because of tradition. Catholics aren't biblical literalists to begin with, and most of their duties as Catholics are taken care of by 60 minutes of weekly church attendance. The birth rate for US Catholics is about as low as everybody else's; either they aren't having sex, or they are ignoring the inconvenient bits of papal directives.
However, with hundreds of millions of Catholics in the world, one could still raise an army of true believers.
If Voris wants to make the world more Catholic, I'd suggest he start with the people who already call themselves Catholic.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 25, 2010 9:04 AM
#6
They are purging their own...way ta go einstein!
Good the more upheaval and inquisitorial shenanigans they can muster the more moderates will start to question this pissant's motives.
Maybe even a few will question a faith that rips itself apart...no atheists necessary!
And sooner rather then later the RCC hierarchy are going to come a crashing down around this bunnies ears.
The RCC is not is any position to entertain a inquisition in their ranks, they will not appreciate the bile this character spews like Linda Blair on a bottle and a half of cinzano and they will not tolerate Priests, Cardinals and Bishops being examined under such measures...they all have far to much to hide!
Posted by: grudgedk
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October 25, 2010 9:05 AM
I couldn't get beyond the part about how "Western Society would be better of as a Catholic Monarchy". Really? Like the Holy See? Yeah, their standing army is still fielding fucking halberds, and their camouflage would only really work in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. Not really a big threat to an AK wielding, Quran quoting Maniac.
Michael Voris is a communist plant. Planted here by China to subvert Western society, so the Chinese can rule the world with impunity, when all Americans are this fucking stupid.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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October 25, 2010 9:07 AM
Yes.But can you pronounce it?
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawm5I1xa6NaptbXkWxQtrFcmKS-Ez86OfRM
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October 25, 2010 9:10 AM
wow, he must belong to the catholic sect that Mel Gibson belongs to..... and what's with the pencil anyway? Who uses a pencil these days?
Posted by: TGAP Dad
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October 25, 2010 9:13 AM
I was a little puzzled by this joker until I read in the AP article that he (Michael Voris) is from Detroit. Then it got me wondering whether this is a project of Tom Monoghan - Domino's Pizza founder, former Detroit Tigers owner, staunch catholic, patron of Thomas More Law Center, and Ave Maria college and law school.
Posted by: Zeno
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October 25, 2010 9:16 AM
Voris belongs to that segment of Catholicism that longs to "purify" the Church and establish a rigid dogmatic uniformity that only an ultramontane could love. Most of them appear to relish the prospect of being part of a "faithful remnant" while everyone else is driven out. I think they are likely to get their wish.
Posted by: Bernard Bumner
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October 25, 2010 9:19 AM
No arguments there.
Rather than actually because they hate child-raping priests.
Or people and organisations who enable child-raping priests.
Or a heirarchy that lives in palaces whilst simultaneously preaching that poverty and suffering are noble acts of sacrifice.
And which actively undermines birth control and sexually-transmitted disease control measures in the poorest nations of the world.
And would deny equal rights to women and non-heterosexuals, and the unmarried, and the unbaptised. Anybody who isn't a Catholic guy in the priesthood or married, basically.
And wishes to deny abortions to anybody, including child victims of rape and women whose lives are threatened by pregnancy.
And also welcomes holocaust deniers and antisemites into its upper echelons.
No, obviously, I don't hate the Catholic Church and Her teachings because of these and other travesties, but because I don't like myself.
Basically, all of the Catholic-hating just comes down to the fact that I don't like Emo, and haven't got the appetite for self-harm.
True, true. I mean, if you don't even love yourself, then how can you love anyone else?
I said, if you don't even love yourself, then how can you love anyone else?
I'm not in love with Evil, because I don't even love myself. Which bit of that pop-psychology bullshit don't you understand?
No love for myself = No love for anyone else.
Not even Evil.
I'm sooooo depressed. I feel like crying.
Wait a minute? Is that a wig? BWAAAAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
I don't so sad anymore.
Posted by: james.haight
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October 25, 2010 9:22 AM
Awesome. Watching Michael Voris has been a guilty pleasure of mine for a while, now. He manages to keep such a straight face and even voice while saying stone-cold crazy things, I laugh every time.
Posted by: Felix
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October 25, 2010 9:28 AM
This is the comment I was about to post:
Then I discovered that the Catholics have set the comments to "approved only".
Note how every single moderately critical comment has been deleted.
It's astounding that the Catholics commenting there don't see through this obvious censorship. Of course it's a lot easier upholding the image of the angry, foulmouthed atheist when you don't get to compare any examples of atheist comments at all.
Of course, in every other video, they will tell you that Christianity (Judeo-Christianity)is necessary to uphold freedom, democracy and justice.
By their censorship shall you know them.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 25, 2010 9:30 AM
Piltdown Man in 3...2...1...
Posted by: lykex
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October 25, 2010 9:37 AM
Field biologists. Unlike ink, graphite doesn't run if the paper gets wet.
Posted by: Katrina, radicales féministes athées
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October 25, 2010 9:42 AM
Invectives? Coarse language? Foul-mouthed speech? Not here!
His talk about a Catholic Monarchy immediately brought to my mind the Reconquista. I'm not sure why.
Posted by: Gaebolga
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October 25, 2010 9:45 AM
Yeah, that bit late in the video where he claims everyone is a slave to either god or satan seems more than a little revealing of his inner "passions."
Curious that he places his god in the role of dominatrix. Of course ("coarse"?), the standard in the BDSM scene is that ultimate control rests with the sub....
Posted by: steve
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October 25, 2010 9:48 AM
Seriously ?
Obviously not following the example of their clergy. There may be hope for them yet.
Posted by: Thebear, just an agent of peas
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October 25, 2010 9:56 AM
Well, there's this old adage that a catlick girl has to be a saint in the front and a martyr in the rear...
Posted by: jaranath
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October 25, 2010 10:04 AM
Last time you crossed Catholics, my eyes were opened. As an ex-Catholic I had long seen my religion as the "sane" one; sure, we had wacky stuff like indulgences and inquisitions in our past, but we got better, and these days we all knew the supernaturalist and literalist stuff was childish. We were practically the religion of science!
Yeah, right. I had only just begun to see that those "old ways" hadn't come close to dying, and that the "new ways" looked a lot more like the old ways than I wanted to believe. While I still think the rank-and-file American Catholic is relatively sane, I've come to find a disturbingly big chunk of them are a heckuva lot nuttier than I thought. And they cloak themselves in that appearance of sanity as they throw their political weight around.
Posted by: LesterMartin
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October 25, 2010 10:06 AM
What this guy fails to realize is that he makes a lot of assumptions about secularists. I will also add that he looks like a douchebag (that's not hate speech, its an observation)
Posted by: Chgo_Liz
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October 25, 2010 10:12 AM
Is there something wrong with me? I wasn't offended in the slightest at his asinine lies...instead, I couldn't stop laughing.
Maybe it was hysterical laughter.
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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October 25, 2010 10:13 AM
@8: Just call him "Vorbis", and you'll be in the right conceptual space.
Posted by: alistair.campbell39
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October 25, 2010 10:15 AM
Excuse me while I gloat a little. I posted a poe comment on the channel, and got an instant response from the administrator which completely missed my blatant self-contradiction!
My comment:
And the reply:
Posted by: AnatomyProf
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October 25, 2010 10:17 AM
It's going to pain this guy to hear this, but I don't cheat on my wife, I don't use drugs, and I don't seek money or fame. Heck, I don't even molest children or support those that do like he does. I don't bow to Christ and I don't bow to Satan; in fact, I don't believe in either one of them though I've had the occasional Jesus in my class.
In the end though I'll be happy to let him whine about hate speech on the part of secularists while we fight the acts of hate (largely legislative) perpetrated by Catholics and others that would be more than happy to install a benevolent dictatorship to give us all the very same benefits altar boys get from the Catholic Church.
Posted by: JolietJake
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October 25, 2010 10:19 AM
I'm confused. The person in the video is saying that atheists are filled with hate, then spouts hate for atheists, so he must be an atheist, but he's professing Catholicism. IDGI.
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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October 25, 2010 10:21 AM
Cross-posted from the endless thread:
Conservative Catholics on a rampage!
Excerpts:
Posted by: bernarda
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October 25, 2010 10:23 AM
Well, at least this Michael Voris is not gay. Oops, I looked at his hairdo again.
Posted by: mikeyB
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October 25, 2010 10:23 AM
Reveals the mindset of authoritarian types, the base of the current Republican party (see John Dean's book Conservatives without Conscience) at the root of all totalitarianism, which revels in dictatoral thinking. These people seem to believe it's natural to grovel - that it's impossible for people to determine things by themselves (codeword relativism). Reminds me of the way that Hitchens describes this state as a celestial North Korea. No thanks. I dunno, were these people spanked too much as children?
Posted by: Tulse
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October 25, 2010 10:26 AM
I was curious about the "S.T.B." he uses after his name. Turns out that's a graduate theology degree offered by Vatican-overseen universities.
In other words, this guy isn't just some random nutbar. He is a Vatican-trained nutbar.
Posted by: Curt Cameron
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October 25, 2010 10:28 AM
Isn't this the exact same video that you posted a couple of months ago? I clearly remember the titmouse that he refers to as a "boo bird."
Posted by: False Prophet
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October 25, 2010 10:29 AM
@frustum #13,
As someone else from a Catholic family, I can say it's pretty much the same in Canada to. Despite (or maybe because of) some provinces still having publicly-supported Catholic schools.
Most Western Catholics remain Catholics because it generally requires no sacrifice or effort on their part. Most Catholics I know are a wee bit more observant of doctrine, but they're mostly 1st and 2nd generation South European and Latin American immigrants, so it's probably more due to the motherland's Catholic-majority culture.
The recent Pew study showed just how theologically ignorant Catholics are about their own religion, something the Church doesn't really care about. Probably because the only people who really know anything about Catholic doctrine are either clergy and a handful of devoted laity, or they join the ranks of ex-Catholic agnostics and atheists (like myself).
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/2Cpr09BisvAGE8xTLScKqHa9oE8qMtok#e64de
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October 25, 2010 10:30 AM
It kinda makes me proud that that guy has blocked my YouTube account for posts I've made in the past, and to know that I rarely curse or use foul language makes it that much better.
He only blocked me because I made decent arguments he didn't want read by his viewers.
Posted by: Zorya
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October 25, 2010 10:31 AM
The captions are great. I am "in love with EVIL."
Posted by: mikeyB
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October 25, 2010 10:31 AM
I got it - P.J. O'Rourke impersonator- same crazy views less humor.
Posted by: jschmeau
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October 25, 2010 10:32 AM
So "in the end", christ will call us friends yet we will still have to bow to 'im. In summary, christ is a liar and is most probably actually satan.
Posted by: MarkNS
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October 25, 2010 10:33 AM
When he mentions "course language" is he referring to someone who talked about golf? Perhaps he meant "coarse language".
I also suspect he meant to refer to the "bile" that came spewing forth rather than "vile". How does one spew "vile"?
Nitpicking I know but, what with all my atheist self hate, I can't help myself.
Posted by: Tulse
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October 25, 2010 10:33 AM
"32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Acts 4:32-35
Posted by: David Marjanović
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October 25, 2010 10:37 AM
The pope behaves as if this is what he wanted, and people have been commenting on this pretty much since his election.
Except...
That "more liberal membership" is hundreds of millions of people; it includes pretty much all Europeans who call themselves Catholic, while even the previous pope wanted to "reevangelize Europe" instead of cutting it loose, and even in "America, where even the Catholics are evangelical" as I like to say, very few can possibly be such nutjobs (see comment 13).
Such a supernova would make the church look bad. Worse than the pope would want.
...probably not even knowing that he just godwinned himself. Way to go, moron!
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384
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October 25, 2010 10:37 AM
I quite like the acronym for the highest rung of that particular nonsense...
Posted by: MarkNS
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October 25, 2010 10:42 AM
When he states that western civilization would be better off under a catholic monarchy I wonder what criteria he is using to judge "better". I don't think homosexuals would be better off. Nor would anyone who isn't catholic. Women would certainly see their rights diminished. Everyone would see their freedom of expression curtailed by the blasphemy laws that would be enacted. So who, exactly, would be "better off" under this catholic monarchy (besides the church hierarchy, of course)?
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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October 25, 2010 10:44 AM
Tulse @47, well done!
Jesus was a Marxist! Or at the very least, a socialist. Catholics, do the right thing! Kick that Jesus guy out of the church.
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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October 25, 2010 10:45 AM
"either they aren't having sex"
Unlikely, given that Catholicism is such a kinky sadomasochistic milieu.
Posted by: bcstractor
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October 25, 2010 10:48 AM
He obviously wants a financial cut in the action. The Catholic Church doesn't or will not give him money so he's come up with his own money making scam under the guise of a splinter Catholic group.
This is like Brown of NOM, Brannon Howse and all the other goon run right wing organisations.
All suck money from the gullible in the name of fear.
It's pretty simple.
Posted by: Leo
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October 25, 2010 10:48 AM
While most Catholics are not that batshit crazy, there is a certain amount of built-in craziness if they really believe in transubstantiation. Consider that after raping a child a priest can say "abra cacabra allakazam this bread and wine is the son of man." Then at communion they go an play swallow the leader.
A few years ago on whim I walked into a mass and walked out with a consecrated cracker. I have it on my bookshelf between The god Delusion and god Is Not Great and just below the famous Danish mohammad cartoon. A friend suggests that I send the cracker out in the mail and put the son of man on tour. At any rate the cracker is my own personal property and true believers are totally powerless to take that thing away from me. My cats used to sniff at it, but I don't think it will end up in the litter box.
Posted by: AZPaul3
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October 25, 2010 10:51 AM
A Catholic Monarchy? Western civilization would be better off if it were a Catholic Monarchy?
Didn't we already try that; For about a thousand years? As I recall it didn't go all that well.
Hey, Mr. Vortex. Been there, done that. We'll pass.
Posted by: A. Nuran
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October 25, 2010 10:52 AM
#27
Obviously not following the example of their clergy. There may be hope for them yet.
Quite the contrary. Boffing pre-pubescent boys doesn't lead to pregnancy.
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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October 25, 2010 10:55 AM
Any Catholics out there now ready to resign from the RCC?
Guess what, you can't.
Source: http://friendlyatheist.com/2010/10/23/the-vatican-blocks-the-exit/ (Hemant Mehta is referencing the Irish website, Count Me Out) Hemant goes on to give several possible reasons for the change in "formal defection" processes. I like this one best: Money, money, money.Posted by: Tulse
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October 25, 2010 11:07 AM
Yes, like, you know, the current monarchies of Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain. Those are certainly especially godly places. I mean, just look at the dominion of His Most Catholic Majesty, the king of Spain, and how it protects traditional marriage and how well Catholicism is doing there.
Posted by: MrFire
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October 25, 2010 11:09 AM
Dunning-Kruger playing out in real time, ladies and gentlemen.
Posted by: BlueIndependent
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October 25, 2010 11:11 AM
Awesome stuff #57. Having once been an RCC, I guess I should have found a way sooner to have renounced membership, but it appears it wouldn't have mattered even if I signed the papers and they approved it. Rarely is it more clear that this is a racket whose purpose is to maintain riches.
Posted by: Richard Eis
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October 25, 2010 11:21 AM
It amuses me no end that monarchy is the only choice. It's all just a matter of what monarchy you want. What a sad indictement of how under the thumb this sad little sheep is.
The almighty most powerful creation in this universe is quite free to appear before me but I won't bow to it. I'm not quite sure why i should, or even what kind of "all powerful" being would need my constant bowing and scraping.
If something demands worship, it is unworthy of that worship. If it is worth worshipping, it has no need of that worship.
Posted by: Leo
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October 25, 2010 11:23 AM
Is there maybe a way to get them to excommunicate people? Maybe a declaration such as "I renounce my baptism in the name of free abortion, gay sex and modern science, amen." Or go to mass and tell the priest that you have some concerns about taking communion because you just gave your partner oral sex and you don't want to desecrate your partners love juices with a host.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 25, 2010 11:35 AM
I know Michael Voris is not a parodist, but he really comes across as one. Compare this video with one from Edward Current.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 25, 2010 11:39 AM
#48
Benny wants the good 'ole inquisition times back up on the papal agenda and boogying.
He wants to return 'catolikism' back to middle age dogma, presumably because they get less confrontation with the real world especially science.
They do not wish to update it or change because they are incapable of reality handling.
Like most religiotards they are afraid and dismayed that the delusion they cherish will be revealed as is in fact pure man made angst made flesh.
It depends a lot on the following pope and his attitude, but Benny is pre-empting the point.
He recently promoted a gaggle of bishops to Cardinal-ship!
Mostly Italian and mostly spouting the Benedict line of closeted creationism.
Everyone seems to think the evolution debate is settled in RCC land, it is not.
Most of his Cardinals hate it and worst of all for reality sake so does Benny baby.
He would be much a happier hoppy bunny if he run a scam/church that did do away with it completely, and he will if his wishes are fulfilled by his next anointed and he seems to be making that explicit in choices and ways, the next pope will likely be Italian and we all are aware of just how good they are on the fucking balance ball.
And just how they view the world as pope elect or consecrated, and what human life means to them.
The 10 worst popes for genocide and hatred have been Italian, they excel at it.
They revel in oldie but goldie ways, and politics has always been the target, well that and accruing mass fortune, and they are very good at both.
And they seem to get off on eviscerating their own as well as 'others'
the inquisition as such a 'device' was a roaring party for the mentally indisposed.
Not so much for the rest of us.
The moderate jeebus fans have as much to fear as atheists do, let alone the other woo droolers from other gods not 'catolik.
Benny tried to flirt outrageously with ID as soon as his bum hit the papal stool, got his papal fingers burnt to a papal crisp, but that little episode convinced him overwhelmingly modernity in all things was not 'papal' enough and more then ever sent him scurrying retrospectively for the middle ages, that is where comfort and salvation lies for him and his erstwhile cronies, but if you are not Opus Dei forget it, not enough room on their ark methinks.
Schism...you betcha!...bloody?...well it is 'catoliks, it is what they do!
Posted by: Marco
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October 25, 2010 11:40 AM
Funny that this dipshit goes on and on about the "hate" and "fear" that supposedly engulf the lives of those who do not follow his very same narrow path -- but then makes abundantly self-evident that his best reasons why we should all go "hyper-Catholic" are...FEAR of god (and "Satan") and a not too thinly-veiled incitement to HATE atheists and other infidels.
If you can spot any POSITIVE and logically convincing reasons why anyone ought to join him, please let me know.
Nice way to lead by example. Very inspiring.
Posted by: IanM
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October 25, 2010 11:51 AM
The Catholic monarchy of love brought us the Crusades and the Inquisition, wherein Catholics spent most of their efforts burning witches, Jews and, most importantly, other Catholics. Thumbscrews, auto de fés, iron maidens, and the rack are all shining expressions of Roman Catholic love.
Posted by: spam.away.666
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October 25, 2010 11:53 AM
Felix @ 22
I decided to go with a Poe. See if you can spot it!
Posted by: Tulse
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October 25, 2010 11:53 AM
Vorbis considers that a feature, not a bug.
Posted by: David Marjanović
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October 25, 2010 11:57 AM
Very few do. Many don't even know it's not supposed to be symbolic.
There was a thread about this just a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Ivar Husa
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October 25, 2010 11:57 AM
@12, @46, and @59 you missed the obvious slur aimed at our beloved professor, PZ. The "course language" is an obvious reference to PZ's academic affiliation. This is all about PZ... :)
Posted by: David Marjanović
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October 25, 2010 12:02 PM
Anubis, your phobia of Italians is really strange.
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
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October 25, 2010 12:03 PM
Saayyy... isn't that a pretty direct violation of the UN charter's specific provision guaranteeing the freedom to change your religion? Not to mention the specific docs of certain member countries?
Fun political game for the day: let's get the Vatican formally to align themselves with the crazier Islamists in the world--y'know--the ones who consider sharia views of apostasy as taking precedent over the charter rights...
Or haven't they just done so already, more or less?
(/Sure, minus the death penalty stuff. But speaking of, ain't 'bureaucratic limbo' an oddly appropriately Catholic approach, after all...)
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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October 25, 2010 12:06 PM
@50:So who, exactly, would be "better off" under this catholic monarchy (besides the church hierarchy, of course)?
...which illustrates the fatal flaw in the theocrats' cunning plan to implement the Kingdom of Heaven, directly on earth via State power. Yes, it's true that, across all the Christian sects, the nutjob conservatives have more in common with each other than they do with their more liberal nominal brethren. But (Dog forbid!) let these people get any control and they'll immediately start anathematizing one another for over some trivial theological difference. The theocracy won't last very long (not to imply that the experience would be merely a temporary inconvenience for the rest of us, or anything....).
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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October 25, 2010 12:22 PM
@72: Saayyy... isn't that a pretty direct violation of the UN charter's specific provision guaranteeing the freedom to change your religion? Not to mention the specific docs of certain member countries?
Seems like, if they are getting money based on membership stats, it should be prosecutable as fraud. If some organization -- whether a church or a philately club -- claims me as a current member, all I should have to do is produce a plainly-worded letter of resignation, properly notarized to establish timing, etc. Note that it doesn't need to be done according the silly hoops the church specifies, either -- this is a secular legal matter. As far as the State is concerned, I don't belong, and for the organization to represent otherwise to obtain a benefit is fraudulent.
About the only body I can think of that you can't just legally walk away from is the military.
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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October 25, 2010 12:23 PM
@72:
We should ask Walton.
There was a discussion recently on exmormon.org about the difficulty of leaving the mormon church. They make it difficult, and humiliating, on purpose. Plus, they often violate privacy laws by announcing the defection in ward meetings (which increases the amount of shunning the defector will experience).
The ex-mormons floated the idea that the USA should require all religious organizations to provide an easy way for members to resign. This easy, and hopefully automated, method could be tied to their tax-free status. In fact, all non-profits should provide an easy way for members to resign. No easy provisions, then no tax-free status!
We discussed this on Pharyngula as well. Resigning should be as easy as "unsubscribe" from an internet mailing list. Here's AJ's previous comment.
In addition, when a member resigns, the church in question should not be able to keep their information on a separate database the way the mormons do. The way it is now, you can resign but someone may still show up at your door and try to reactivate you.
What the Catholic Church is doing right now sounds like a violation of civil rights. Let's hold their feet to the fire (oh, wait ... they might like that.)
Posted by: skeptifem
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October 25, 2010 12:26 PM
Most aren't that crazy at all. Most use birth control, after all. Most don't tithe much either.
Posted by: Fred The Hun
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October 25, 2010 12:26 PM
Hmm, let's see if I've got this straight?
My only two choices are between, a slavery to God or a slavery to Satan, neither of which I happen to believe in.
Shakes head as he walks away in disbelief...while softly singing "Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee."
Posted by: hje
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October 25, 2010 12:27 PM
So he thinks the Protestant Taliban is going to embrace this bid for Catholic dominance? He might want to review some of the uglier aspects of 19th century American history.
The outcome: "We are the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad! Suicide squad, attack!"
Re: #47
Damn dirty hippy apostles.
Posted by: AZPaul3
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October 25, 2010 12:30 PM
Tulse (#58)
So you're saying a Catholic Monarchy would be ineffective and incompetent?
Great. Just what we need more of in this country.
What about a Constitutional Monarchy of the Gnu Atheist? Think PZ is up for a career change?
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 25, 2010 12:32 PM
#71
Nope not really phobic to the Italians folk specifically ... my antipathy is only directed at the ones that make top doggy spot in teh Vatican!
Italian popes are the worst bunny to meet down a dark alley with no shotgun handy ;-)
Posted by: Rashbam
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October 25, 2010 12:33 PM
Here is Mr. Voris again: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/24/catholic-blogs-aim-to-pur_n_773168.html
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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October 25, 2010 12:39 PM
I don't have a phobia about Italians, but I too find it significant that the Pope is stacking the College of Cardinals with Italians.
Here's a Washington Post article that discusses the bump from 24% Italian cardinals under John Paul to 28% under Benedict. Half of Benedict's new appointees were not just Italian, but from the Vatican curia.
Curial cardinals will swing the vote hard right, with an even more conservative Pope pretty much guaranteed in the future.
Posted by: Bjoern U.
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October 25, 2010 12:39 PM
i was in one too, and there was nothing religious going on
just playing boardgame and playing tag or hide and seek (which if i didn't know better the local abby was build for)
but i did see my share of crazy as well
and thats just anecdotes anyway, and therefore worthless
Posted by: kirbywarp
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October 25, 2010 1:11 PM
About subjugation to either God or Satan (all the way back to #26):
Sadly this isn't the first person I've heard say something like this. I've talked to a couple Christians on line about man's free will and evil. It boiled down to this: man cannot be good without God, or evil without Satan. Man's only choice is which one to worship and be controlled by.
Creepy...
Its not surprising then to hear stuff like "If you don't follow God, you must be worshiping Satan." Its truly a warped view of reality and morality.
That is all.
Posted by: jan
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October 25, 2010 1:41 PM
Course language ? At least we atheists score higher on education and spelling. I'll burn for pedantry, I know, it's got something to do with a fruit my great granny once ate.
Posted by: Turdus
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October 25, 2010 1:43 PM
"We're no more engaged in a witch hunt than a doctor excising a cancer is engaged in a witch hunt"
This is a standard Muslim attitude that is used to justify beheading people who don't conform. Homosexuals, for example. They are a cancer on society that must be removed. The Catholics are taking their cues from Al Queda now?
Posted by: Lynna, OM
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October 25, 2010 1:44 PM
Newly unsealed documents reveal yet more abuse associated with Roman Catholic priests:
The article provides details of some abusers previously unknown to prosecutors, and also provides direct quotes of letters from supervisors advising abusers to hightail it out of town because the police were on to them.Posted by: Leo
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October 25, 2010 1:59 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5hFQ_mhRzfStbA3T-WIqqlgL07g?docId=e966221ca1fd4474b3cf2819c4e897d0
Posted by: blf
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October 25, 2010 2:03 PM
That would explain why no-one's been able to find Mr bin Laden—he's hiding in the Vatican! I presume, given Rat's and Vorbis's statements, bin Laden is the public relations advisor.
Posted by: Joffan
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October 25, 2010 2:06 PM
spam.away.666 @ #67
You wouldn't be the Matlike1 (great Poe name) with "(like 911 was all about religion)", perhaps? Although I also liked the phrase from melliebea, "God has truly chosen you in this evil age".
Poes are so hard to spot amongst unintended irony...
Posted by: steve
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October 25, 2010 2:12 PM
Well he's certainly lowered his standards.
But I guess he blends right in with the rest of the international criminals.
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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October 25, 2010 2:22 PM
I see I'm not the first person to have noticed that - presumably by coincidence - Michael Voris' name is suspiciously close to Vorbis from Terry Pratchett's Small Gods.
(Whatever you do, don't send him a copy of that book. He'd probably view Omnia as a role model for his planned Catholic theocracy.)
Posted by: Thebear, just an agent of peas
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October 25, 2010 2:26 PM
It would be a terrible waste of a perfectly good book of course, but other than that I guess no harm done. What he envisions probably isn't to far off.
Except of course - tortoises might have a hard time if he got "Small gods".
Yes - that's it! Think of the tortoises!
Posted by: Tulse
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October 25, 2010 2:32 PM
So we've got free will, and the only choice we have is not to use it?
Posted by: kris.ingstrup
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October 25, 2010 2:47 PM
Well I'd to hear some of this awesome blasphemy.
Also "They are already dying quiet lives of emotional and psychological exhaustion and they rage against the machine of their creation."
That doesn't even make sense. How do atheists become so emotionally exhausted? I'm so confused...
Posted by: Tulse
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October 25, 2010 3:13 PM
Wait, so god is a machine? Is this the Matrix?
Posted by: Leon
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October 25, 2010 3:18 PM
Nice one, PZ! Get it--"crossed" Catholicism?Ok I know, it doesn't really apply too well, but saying you "crucifixed Catholicism" just wouldn't be as snappy. Or then again...
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
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October 25, 2010 3:20 PM
What the fuck is with the captions? Living in The Netherlands, I'm used to subtitles (and prefer it to overdubbing) but this is ridiculous!
Posted by: CJO
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October 25, 2010 3:24 PM
Is this the Matrix?
"You eat the blue cracker, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe. You eat the red cracker, you stay in wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
Posted by: raven
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October 25, 2010 3:24 PM
Great idea. It should also be online, in an internet format. One click enrollment or defection. I suspect the numbers of church members would drop a lot, maybe by half.
I thought of formally leaving my natal church but haven't heard from them in decades. I doubt, I'm still on any of their lists.
Posted by: raven
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October 25, 2010 3:30 PM
That is demonstrably wrong and easily disposed of.
1. Xians are no better than anyone else and fundie cultists are worse. This is a matter of cold, hard statistics on social problems and prison populations. The claim fails on the facts.
2. Which god? Only 30% of the world's population believes in the xian one. Hindus have millions, Buddhists might have one but no one is sure, and so on. There are thousands at least of gods.
3. Satan? You have to be a xian to follow satan. To an atheist, he is merely a fictional character out of xian mythology. To the other religions, he is the same.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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October 25, 2010 3:39 PM
Well, THAT was batshit crazy! A Catholic Monarchy--because it worked out so well for the Hu
Posted by: godzillafan1993
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October 25, 2010 3:42 PM
I love it how they portray us atheists as so evil and corrupt. They're jealous that we know even more about their religion than they do, which is the reason why we're atheists in the first place.
They want to wage war against us, so be it. That will be their biggest mistake, and also their last.
It's retards like the one in the video who have brought me to despise christianity. This is why we need more people like Dawkins or Myers to give these imbeciles a good intellectual-pimp-slap across the face.
Posted by: raven
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October 25, 2010 3:44 PM
You know the xian churches are running scared when they won't accept applications for departure. Time was, being kicked out was a big deal and could get you killed.
As everyone knows, they all inflate their numbers as part of the constant xian power struggles.
Obviously the RCC is afraid of losing the numbers race.
I've heard from former Southern Baptists that they do the same thing. They claim 18 million members but count anyone who was baptized or a member. The real membership is probably half of that.
Some churches don't do this as much. The reason is real simple. They have to kick money up to the national organizination, "pass through". So if the local church claims more members, they are expected to pay for them.
Posted by: Akira MacKenzie
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October 25, 2010 3:48 PM
@Raven #101
Ah! But by by not believing in God/Jesus, you serve Satan's goals by proxy.
See, it's easy to play Christard!
Posted by: Jeffrey A. Myers
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October 25, 2010 3:49 PM
His hair looks like Rod Blagojevich's.
He has that level of credibility too.
Appeals to the purity are always a sign that a faction is running out of ideas. This sword wielding buffoon is merely another example of an ideology that has run its course.
Posted by: Jeffrey A. Myers
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October 25, 2010 3:51 PM
And yes, we are totally the militant, angry, aggressive ones.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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October 25, 2010 3:58 PM
So, in order to fit in with Voris' stereotype of ther baby-eating atheist monster, I really need to work on my supervillain manic laughter?
Here goes...
Ahahahahaha!
No, that's not it.
MUAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!
Much better...
As for;
I say that if Don 'Scarface' Yahweh and his demonic hitman are such big noises in the mythological mafia, then why don't they show themselves, or provide any evidence that they actually exist? Honestly, Voris may as well threaten us with a visit from the Carebear Yakuza. No evidence = no credibility.
What is it with the proliferation of fringe groups that say an already bonkers movement isn't crazy enough? The Republicans spawn the Tea Party, and now the catholics have given rise to this bunch of weirdoes, that even refer to themselves as the 'Catholic Tea Party'. Essentially extra-strength catholocism, for those who think that the catholic church just isn't racist, homophobic and misogynist enough...
Surprise, surprise. Militant catholics despise free speach and any dissent from the antiquated party line. In other news, dog bites man...
This kind of language always worries me. He is directly likening his fellow human beings to a malignant cell mass. This is the kind of mindset that tries to concoct apologia for torture and genocide. A 'witch hunt' is exactly what this is. It is a bid to enact a Stalinist-type purge of anyone who does not cleave to the craziest, most lunatic fringe of the already nutty catholic belief system. What amazes me is that Voris actually thinks people won't see through his transparent lies.
And;
Sounds bad, doesn't it? So, what is the shape of Voris' grand moral crusade? What heinous crimes are Voris and co. out to expose? Is he going after the church's lunatic attacks on condom use that have killed literally millions? Is he out to expose the priest who rape children, and the other clerics who cover for them?
Er, no. What bee is in Voris' bonnet? What 'crimes' of these 'traitors' appal hom so?
and;
Why, Voris is outraged because some catholics might be 'pinkoes' who are not Republican enough for the apparently rightwing sky fairy. Worse, they might actually believe that a woman's body is her own, and not the property of the patriachy. They may even believe that 'teh gheys' are actual people, deserving of the full status and rights at law (including marital rights) offered to other citizens. What else?
One can only wonder at the moron's spectacularly distorted priorities and epic bigotry. The church has severe problems with genuine corruption. The systemic coverup of a horrific epidemic of child rape, the propagation of lies about condoms that have directly contributed to the AIDS pandemic and lead to the deaths of vast numbers of people, and links to the Italian underworld that may even even implicate the vatican in murder, is hardly small beer, and yet this idiot cares not at all about these serious charges, and instead fixates on demonizing those few within the church who want to haul its malodourous bulk out of the Dark Ages.
'Cretin' just isn't a strong enough word...
Posted by: raven
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October 25, 2010 4:05 PM
Which means that the bast majority of the world's population, nonxians, are followers of satan. I"m sure the Moslems, Jews, Hindus, etc. will be pleased to hear that.
LOL. I'll see you and raise you.
Fundie xians are the real followers of satan.
1. Their cults are based on pure hate.
2. They lie constantly. Satan is the father of lies.
3. Some of them practice human child sacrifice by medical neglect.
So we have hate, lies, and human child sacrifice = fundie xianity. So how does this differ from worshipping satan? Looks the same to me. Except that satanists are all but nonexistent.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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October 25, 2010 4:10 PM
raven @ 109;
Also, doesn't satanism supposedly include ritualised and abusive sexual behaviour? Often involving children?
That would be another point of commonality with the catholic clergy, if not xians in general...
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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October 25, 2010 4:13 PM
Whats the betting that Michael Voris is going to be caught getting his 'luggage lifted' in the not too distant future?
Posted by: Phil
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October 25, 2010 4:15 PM
I come back in from (The People's Republic of) Cork and their wonderful Jazz Festival, and what do I find? If that fucker tries anything like this in Ireland, I'm going to start carrying a knife around with me.
That said, I doubt most Catholics are this bad (I might still be one officially, but I couldn't give a shit anymore). I know my grandparents aren't THIS crazy, and they go to Mass every day (although they're in their 80s, to be fair).
Posted by: raven
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October 25, 2010 4:16 PM
Not that I know of. Which makes fundie xianity worse than satanism.
There are virtually no real worshippers of satan, if any. The church of satan is atheistic and I think Levey just wrote his book for the money after seeing what L. Ron Hubbard did with scientology.
Some self described satanists claim that satan (Lucifer, light bringer in Greek) is actually the good god and Yawheh is the bad god.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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October 25, 2010 4:17 PM
So we've got free will, and the only choice we have is not to use it?
winner.
Posted by: hockeybobs
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October 25, 2010 4:18 PM
I don't suppose anyone has taken them up yet on the "Premium Membership" offer at the end of the clip?
(cricket_chirp.wav)
Yeah, I didn't think so.
This fraud is a fuck-witted dolt.
(I do hope he isn't offended by such 'course' language!)
Posted by: Qwerty
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October 25, 2010 4:50 PM
I had to google to see what the S.T.B after his name meant.
I suppose it means "bachelor of sacred theology" but I like "steal the bacon."
Personally, I think the Rev BDC should have STB after his name if it means "steal the bacon."
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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October 25, 2010 5:15 PM
Raven @ 113;
Really? Well then, fundie xianity clearly is worse than satanism. Sounds about right to me.
If one reads the bible without theist blinkers on, then it pretty much supports this, or at least casts doubt on the idea that god is, in relative terms and in so far as you can discuss the morality of mythical creatures, morally superior to satan. Its desciptions of the actions of the 'Father of Lies', while bad, don't come anywhere close to the genocidal evil attributed to Yahweh and his weapon-of-indiscriminate-mass-child-murder approach to convincing one pharaoh to play ball.
Or his endorsement of demonstrating one's preparedness to engage in a little child sacrifice as a means of proving one's piety.
Or his apparent approval of Lot's readiness to offer his daughters for gang rape as an expression of 'hospitality'.
Or his repeated endorsement of pious genocide on the part of his 'chosen people'.
Just as well neither one of them actually exists. Otherwise it would be Freddy Versus Jason* all over again...
* That such an awful movie exists seems to be proof that there is evil in the world, if nothing else...
Posted by: KG
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October 25, 2010 5:29 PM
I assumed it meant Stupid Twisted Bullshitter.
Posted by: JohnnieCanuck
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October 25, 2010 5:35 PM
They go to mass every day
What a horrible load of guilt has been forced on them, to cause that obsessive behaviour! What? 22 hours of accumulated backsliding won't guarantee them eternal torture but 26 hours will?
All those hours of happy enjoyment of family and real accomplishments sacrificed for a worthless promise of a ticket to heaven. So sad.
Posted by: AJ Milne OM
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October 25, 2010 5:39 PM
A lot of guys ignore the laugh. And that's about standards.
(/Mandatory.)
Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies
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October 25, 2010 7:08 PM
I'm only halfway through the video and I've gotta say that I love Michael Voris's hair. It's perfect politician hair!
Why hasn't this guy been appointed to be our benevolent Catholic monarch yet?
Posted by: Samantha Vimes
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October 25, 2010 7:09 PM
He goes on and on about self-hatred.
The guy who believes Original Sin means he was born guilty of something that makes him unworthy of anything but eternal torture, and only a human sacrifice appeased God's wrath at him and made it possible for him to be cleansed of sin. Yet even this was not enough, because he has to constantly resist temptation and then apologize for ever thinking anything but approved-of thoughts. That's self-hatred.
He projects like the movie display at IMAX.
Posted by: TimmyC
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October 25, 2010 7:21 PM
Most Catholics AREN'T this crazy. My guess is that this guy is a convert. Most born Catholics I know are pretty laid back, especially when it comes to the hellfire and damnation stuff, and you rarely hear one of them quote the Bible from heart.
And while we're on the subject, Catholics (in the U.S. anyway) are generally pretty progressive about other stuff as well:
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=7858
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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October 25, 2010 7:28 PM
Catholics that are progressive have a scheduled meeting with their appointed leader.
The Pope.
He'll have a lot to say about that.
Posted by: TimmyC
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October 25, 2010 7:31 PM
The Catholic Church is the people, not the pope.
Posted by: Hurin, Nattering Nabob of Negativism.
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October 25, 2010 7:35 PM
@ Gregory Greenwood
Well, not really, at least not in any of the real satanic groups that I'm aware of. Anton Lavey's Church of Satan is basically atheistic, maybe with some wooish magickal trappings, and populated by a bunch of elitists who view themselves as gods, and find it humorous to piss people off by pretending to worship the devil. I've had friends who were this kind of satanist. Basically law abiding. Maybe a little weird.
The OTO have a similar bent, but these are followers of Aleister Crowley, and they draw more on masonic traditions and hermetic magick. I have ties to this group as well, through a relative that I am close to, and the things he tells me about are not anymore sinister than kooky candlelight rituals and occasionally biscuits with small amounts of menstrual blood (I guess there are worse things to eat for ritual purposes than communion wafers after all).
There are some groups of theistic satanists who are violent. The Norwegian black metal scene and all of that.
There is also the Temple of Set. Offshoots of the Church of Satan. I don't really know anything about them other than the fact that they split off apparently because they didn't think CoS took itself seriously enough.
But yeah, there are real satanists, and most of them don't resemble Richard Ramirez or the Catholic buggery squad overly much. That's largely hype.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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October 25, 2010 7:36 PM
The pope represents and leads the Cat-O-Lick church. What part of the truth don't you understand???Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM
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October 25, 2010 7:39 PM
Not according to the pope and the rest of the hierarchy. The purpose of the laity is "pray, pay and obey."
Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies
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October 25, 2010 7:39 PM
Maybe someone should inform the pope about that.
Hey Ratzi! TimmyC says you're not the Catholic church! I guess it's time for you to step down now and establish, I don't know, a church wide democracy or something!
Posted by: Birger Johansson
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October 25, 2010 7:42 PM
Crossposted from the Creation museum thread:
...buy him a set of these British thingies:
"Nun Bowling: It's Sinfully Fun!"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nun-Bowling-Sinfully-Mega-Mini/dp/076243094X/ref=pd_sim_b_2
But since he is probably a sexist misogynic like so many other (male) ultra-religious creationists, he will likely just laugh, thinking the barb is toward the nuns, instead of him.
Posted by: Thebear, just an agent of peas
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October 25, 2010 7:43 PM
Sad gits working out of their mommy's basement mostly. Either just trying to be nihilistic or trying to conform to American satanism myths.
Main "prophet" Varg Vikernes has decided that nazism was more fun.
The remaining are either very sad, or just using it as an image thing / focusing on the "music"
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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October 25, 2010 7:48 PM
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
How come there's a pope then?
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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October 25, 2010 7:54 PM
More to the point, why is the pope chosen for life in a secret ceremony behind closed doors by a small group of high-ranking church officers? That doesn't exactly scream "people-driven".
Anybody can call themselves Catholic, but if they aren't following the rules of the organization, they are no more Catholic than I am.
Posted by: Joffan
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October 25, 2010 8:00 PM
If popes come from cardinals, how come are there still cardinals?
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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October 25, 2010 8:04 PM
P.S. Let's see those progressive Catholics vote in a female bishop or an openly gay, married priest and see how the Church embraces it.
The Catholics I grew up with didn't mix their more liberal behavior and their church attendance. Quietly ignoring Church dogma doesn't make you a Catholic, it makes you a closet Protestant.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/x1CsKko.p.keyee5Rk.DLZd7ts9OdS.ilqZgGw--#2a28e
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October 25, 2010 8:23 PM
#16 schism is prounced like shizm. It rhymes with jizm.
The idea of a Roman Catholic Empire* invading Muslim nations would go over real well.
*Do you really think they would be satisfied with just a RC king?
Posted by: johnnyd101
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October 25, 2010 8:47 PM
if they really are my choices dibs on the hottest bed in hell
Posted by: Quercus rubra
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October 25, 2010 8:59 PM
@ 136, not quite. Rhyme is correct, but the sch is pronounced sk- like "school" (so, skizm not shizm).
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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October 25, 2010 8:59 PM
Why aren't the Cat-O-Lick people voting with their feet, to a new church, without pedophile priests and the cover-up, with birth control, and saner theology??? The people don't count, that is why...
Posted by: otrame
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October 25, 2010 9:07 PM
Joffran @134 wins a sniny new internet for that one!
Posted by: Robster
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October 25, 2010 9:16 PM
This bloke can't be taken seriously. He seems to honestly believe in a devil, that Satan myth. Has he ever seen it? Has it ever, without the chance of convenient happenstance, ever affected him or for that matter, anybody? Errr no. He cannot be taken seriously. Only a seriously compromised twit would be upfront enough and not embarrassed to admit to believing, sincerely, in such nonsense. Put the silly little person back in his box and lock the top. Perhaps equip him with a strait jacket.
Posted by: clemxxx
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October 25, 2010 9:20 PM
if what i read on another site is right, his studio is in ferndale, mi.if so it would not be far from the shrine of the little flower, home base of the infamous father coughlin. what did we detroiters do to deserve these totalitarian clowns?
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/x1CsKko.p.keyee5Rk.DLZd7ts9OdS.ilqZgGw--#2a28e
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October 25, 2010 9:45 PM
I was wrong but it can also be pronounced like sizm, also rhyming with jism. That's my word-of-the-day (jism, not schism).
Posted by: Frank b
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October 25, 2010 9:54 PM
I'm too concerned for my blood pressure to watch the video. Some for the election coverage, I avoid the news nowadays.
@93, Oh, tortoises! Lots of good eating on one of those.
Posted by: Michelle
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October 25, 2010 10:04 PM
Joffan @134: that was the funniest thing I've read all day!
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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October 25, 2010 10:32 PM
@139
Because you can't vote with your feet is you BELIEVE. Regardless of how corrupt it is they believe the ultimate truth of the dogma. You can't really go to a new god if you don't like the current one. They believe the Church is the one true one that they need for salvation. THey're trapped in a spiritual hostage situation.
Posted by: The Sailor
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October 25, 2010 10:55 PM
Sonny, better ask your priest about that one. But pull up your genes first.And 134 is funny.
Posted by: seanpboyd1968
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October 25, 2010 11:43 PM
I would have pushed for a judgment of $666 million.
Posted by: Jeanette Garcia
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October 26, 2010 12:22 AM
Ick! This video made me sick. What a pile of self satisfied crap this guy spews.
Posted by: Hurin, Nattering Nabob of Negativism.
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October 26, 2010 1:42 AM
@ Thebear, 131
Well, not really. Euronymous was successfully running a record store and recording label and networking with obscure bands globally. Darkthrone had already been signed by peaceville records by the time they interfaced with the scene, and had released a very proficient work of death metal. Some of the nascent bands in the scene were shitty, but at least a few of them are now acclaimed and accomplished musicians.
The satanism they were purveying was derived from the imagery of underground metal. Specifically, it was a reaction to what they saw as the mainstreaming of death metal. How much of this was posturing vs. spiritual/philosophical seriousness probably varies by musician, and is debatable. In any case, some of them took it too far and did things that were inexcusable by any standard. Varg appears to have been the ringleader of this activity, and he was also apparently the most prolific offender. Some bands like Darkthrone and Enslaved appear to have avoided criminality.
Varg is nuts. If you've ever read anything written by him, or any of his interviews you know what I mean. Profoundly insane. Its unfortunate that he has become a spokesmen for metal, and probably has a lot to do with his adeptness at being a one man side show. As demented as Ozzy Osborne is, I'd take him over Varg any day.
But yes, he is a Nazi, and judging from his statements and also his output as Burzum I would guess he has had leanings in that direction for quite some time. I think it has more to do with his true outlook than satanism ever did.
I'd like to argue with you here, but that sounds about right. These bands were in their heyday 20 years ago, and the ones that are still around are mostly crap. I saw Enslaved live in '08 and it was the most anti-climactic, disappointing show I've ever seen.
Maybe it would be even sadder if these people managed to stay angry and fucked up enough to make good black metal into their 40s though. I'm not sure I would wish that kind of thanatotic disposition on my enemies.
Posted by: JB
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October 26, 2010 2:30 AM
I noticed the other day that the Catholic church in Luzern (moderate sized Swiss city) is giving out condoms to help raise awareness of HIV in Africa and help reduce STDs in Switzerland. A bit strange, but a reminder that there are relatively normal and moral religious people out there.
I've not seen a paper for a few days, so I don't know if they're excommunicated yet.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 2:40 AM
Yeah, because the people are the leader of the Church, God's personal representative of Earth and are held as infallible.
Fuckin' moron.
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 3:08 AM
Oh okay. So I guess America is the President, not the People. That seems to be the same conclusion from what people are saying.
There's a lot of squirming that goes on to deny the point that the church has more than one member. The commenter says the obvious. Dispute the weight of it, not its meaning.
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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October 26, 2010 3:14 AM
TimmyC:
Only in the sense that the catholic church needs mass amounts of poor people who send money they cannot afford to a bloated, super rich state, the vatican.
What is it that all those people follow, do you think? Each other, or the oh so not infallible pope? The current pope (ol' Ratzi) says: condoms are still bad. As a matter of fact, they are more than bad, they are evil! He declares this, and what happens? That shit gets preached and pushed, and people die. So who are these 'people' who make up the church and aren't listening to the pope?
You're an idiot for making such a statement and not being able to think it through.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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October 26, 2010 3:15 AM
Oh okay. So I guess America is the President, not the People. That seems to be the same conclusion from what people are saying.
so you're comparing a representative democracy to a papal heirarchy.
fuck me but you're stupid, franky.
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 3:22 AM
the distinction is irrelevant
Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe
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October 26, 2010 3:24 AM
Ichthyic:
Oh, he's more than stupid, frankosaurus keeps trying to take stupid to whole brand new level.
The catholic church is built on the notion that the pope is infallible. Whoever the hell the pope happens to be, doesn't matter, the man cannot do wrong, period end of sentence. Nope, 'cause he's got a pipeline to god and all that. Catholics buy into that particular line of bullshit, and they follow it.
Last time I looked, people in the U.S. bitch and moan about whoever is president all the time. There's no declaration of infallibility.
Ah well, it doesn't much matter, where frankosaurus is concerned; he seems to think he won't still be considered a troll since his name change. Not only that, he seems to think his opinions will all of a sudden make sense. Once an idiot...*
*Some people I have hope for on that score, they can learn. In Frank's case though, no, he's an idiot through and through.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
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October 26, 2010 3:26 AM
#156
Only to the chronically challenged in brain function.
Posted by: Ichthyic
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October 26, 2010 3:29 AM
the distinction is irrelevant
I'd post a great picture of a double face-palm, but you simply aren't worth the effort.
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 3:30 AM
built on it? He only rarely speaks ex cathedra.
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 3:34 AM
"I'd post a great picture of a double face-palm, but you simply aren't worth the effort."
Okay. Roger that!
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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October 26, 2010 3:37 AM
To be fair, it's worth defining this more precisely. Catholics only believe that the Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra to define an authoritative dogma of the Church - something which last happened in 1950, when the Pope proclaimed the Assumption of the Virgin Mary. They do not claim that the Pope is personally impeccable (free from sin), nor that his statements made in a personal capacity are infallible.
It's still irrational evidenceless bullshit, of course, but it's important not to misunderstand the exact claim. They don't believe the Pope is perfect (if they did, this would be easily falsified by pointing to the Borgias, or to Pius XII's concordat with Hitler, for a start). They simply believe that, through some magical mystical process, the Pope becomes infallible when he claims to speak ex cathedra, while conceding that he can make mistakes the rest of the time. It makes no sense, but it does explain how Catholics can accept that a particular Pope was a bad person (which in many cases is undeniable) and still defend the doctrine of infallibility.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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October 26, 2010 3:51 AM
These Roman [Catholics] are crazy! *taptaptap*
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 3:53 AM
Right you are Walton. Though in certain respects I think the infallibility mirrors what we see in supreme court judgments. The tag "infallible" isn't used, but in practice, what they say is an authoritative pronouncement on the law until, that is, they clarify themselves. They never say they were wrong.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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October 26, 2010 3:58 AM
I have been ignoring the return and renaming of the Fuckasarous. Also need to go to sleep. But, damn, a person has to be really fucking stupid if he cannot tell the difference between a religious organization with aspirations of returning to it's old role of political hegemony and a nation state.
Posted by: mikee
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October 26, 2010 4:01 AM
Hmmm, so the choice is to bow down to satan or bow down to god.
I've got a third option mate, I don't bow down to anyone, let alone a Church that if it were a monarchy would probably make kiddy fiddling the national sport.
Religion seems to attract these limited intellect, meaningless rhetoric spouting twits.
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 4:08 AM
the distinction is irrelevant for the purposes of establishing that metonymic "heads" of organizations, or properties ascribed thereto, are not the organizations themselves.
The differences between religious and national governments are of course tremendously important in other aspects.
I know I shouldn't really defend what I say, or spell it out. It doesn't accomplish much. But I so dislike having people allege stupidity to perfectly sensible statements.
Posted by: John Morales
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October 26, 2010 4:11 AM
Sigh. All Catholics must profess to abide by the Catechism, else they're heretical.
Specifically:
Posted by: John Morales
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October 26, 2010 4:20 AM
PS A mandatory part of becoming Catholic is the Profession of the Christian Faith.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 4:22 AM
There actually was an attempt to make the Church of the people. It's called Liberation theology.
Guess who really didn't like that idea: John Paul II and Ratzinger.
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 4:25 AM
I think John Morales, if you follow the actual trail of discussion, you'll find your comment is a tangent rather than a correction. Incidental to the point that the church is an organization of people, and not the pope exclusively.
In any case, no one denies the church is authoritarian, and that the authority for the most part isn't derived from verifiable evidence.
Posted by: Numad
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October 26, 2010 4:29 AM
Professor Frink,
I think that you may want to consider reading the "the Church is the people/the Church is the pope" exchange in a little less literal frame of mind.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 4:35 AM
No, it absolutely is not. In the US the people have some say in government. Catholics, however, do NOT have a say in how the Church is run.
Just a fun note: here is a map of the world showing which countries indentify themselves as a 'democracy'. The Vatican is one of the few that doesn't even bother with that pretext.
Posted by: John Morales
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October 26, 2010 4:37 AM
F: The Church is what the Church says it is.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 4:45 AM
You're all wrong! The Church is a building.
Posted by: Numad
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October 26, 2010 4:50 AM
"You're all wrong! The Church is a building."
Touché.
Maybe that would be a more benign example for Catholics to follow. Standing around and providing shelter.
Posted by: areyoulistening
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October 26, 2010 4:50 AM
Walton:
That's a really damn arbitrary distinction considering that the Pope still has the authority to change the doctrine, which is supposed to be some sort of eternal truth. Methinks that this is mere semantics - the Pope is not defined as infallible, even though his authority over church doctrine implies very heavily that he is infallible.
At least, of course, while he's Pope. Last time I checked, the office becomes immediately vacant upon death and the former Pope is buried in his cardinal's robes. Semantically, this allows later Popes to override earlier Popes because the earlier Popes are no longer Pope and thus no longer infallible.
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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October 26, 2010 4:56 AM
Re. #175: Feynmaniac wins this week's Literalist Award!
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 4:56 AM
Frank, you know when in the newspaper it's written "the White House says...." nobody interprets that as meaning the building at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. actually spoke?
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 5:19 AM
"I think that you may want to consider reading the "the Church is the people/the Church is the pope" exchange in a little less literal frame of mind."
i don't mean to reduce the distinction as a literal truism, though obviously I am resistant to interpertations that extrapolate what isn't actually there. I think his ultimate point that the distinction is in service of is to say that the church's authoritarian structure is nonetheless manageable, and is only a minor part of what it means to be a Catholic. Fair enough, I say, as I think people are entitled to their own personal assessments of what their faith means to them.
As to whether the church is Properly (TM) understood as a collection of faithful, or the laws,leaders, and rituals it is governed by, then that's a question of perspective. Recognizing otherwise only leads to error and confusion as we've seen.
"Frank, you know when in the newspaper it's written "the White House says...." nobody interprets that as meaning the building at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. actually spoke?"
Yeah, and I was trying to remember, is that metonymy or synechdoche?
Posted by: KG
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October 26, 2010 5:20 AM
But you never make any.
I urge others to join me in refusing to use Frink's self-awarded title.
Posted by: KG
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October 26, 2010 5:31 AM
Yes, in the same way as the CPSU of the 1930s was the members and not Stalin.
Posted by: Tim
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October 26, 2010 5:32 AM
I can't help wondering what Voris would do if Benny Hex himself ordered Voris to take down his videos under pain of excommunication. I mean, Voris is holding the RCC up to (even more) public ridicule, right? I have a mental picture of Voris' head literally exploding.
As an aside, I don't get the claim that Xianity is monotheistic. Surely, by any reasonable definition Satan is a deity, albeit a minor one. The Virgin Mary is also a deity. Catholics say they venerate Mary, but worship God; isn't that a distinction without a difference?
Walton 162: How dare you malign Pacelli? He saved several thousand Jews by hiding them from the Nazis, didn't he? I don't think it's fair to criticize him just for throwing the other six million under the bus.
Posted by: John Morales
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October 26, 2010 5:33 AM
[meta]
KG,
Way ahead of you, and I already do.
The salient characteristic of the real (if imaginary) Frink is that he's exceedingly intelligent and nerdy. Quite the contrast to our Frankosaurus.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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October 26, 2010 5:38 AM
Timothy C says "The Catholic Church is the people, not the pope."
Well, more correctly, the Catholic Church is the people giving inordinate power to a group of geriatric Nazis, Fascists and mobsters and willingly offering up the bums or their little devil spawn for sacrifice to pedophiles.
I have an uncle who converted to Catholicism. He's gay. I asked him one time if he ever felt like a Jewish Nazi (Early on, there were such, by the way.)
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit attrocities."--Voltaire
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 5:38 AM
He does have this in common though:
Posted by: ScottDogg
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October 26, 2010 5:40 AM
Man, this thing is crying out for a parody. You gotta love the Seinfeld-esque slap bass music at the very start.
Also, I notice how he rails against "course language" coming from atheists. I once did a course in Japanese in high school - is this the sort of education he despises?
You mean like the commandment that says "Thou shalt forcibly arse-rape young choir boys"? Yes, I really HATE myself for not upholding such a blessed Catholic law. :/
Nice reference to Rage Against The Machine, though.
Posted by: KG
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October 26, 2010 5:45 AM
Walton@162,
AFAIK, the RCC has never admitted that the concordat with the Nazis was wrong. After all, it preserved Church property and freedom to indoctrinate. There were certainly tensions, but mostly the NSDAP and the RCC rubbed along well enough, having so much in common.
Posted by: KG
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October 26, 2010 5:52 AM
John Morales@184,
So you are! Not being a Simpsons fan (I've enjoyed the few episodes I've watched, I just hardly watch any TV), I was unaware of the real Professor Frink.
Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier
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October 26, 2010 5:56 AM
Frankosaurus,
I see you went to Mary “genes cannot be selfish or unselfish, any more than atoms can be jealous, elephants abstract or biscuits teleological” Midgley's School of
TrivialDeep Insights™.Posted by: Numad
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October 26, 2010 5:56 AM
Frink,
"Fair enough, I say, as I think people are entitled to their own personal assessments of what their faith means to them."
In fact that's the heart of the thing: that entitlement isn't recognized by the Church as an organization. And progressive Catholics should express dissent to that if their ideas are to mean anything.
"As to whether the church is Properly (TM) understood as a collection of faithful, or the laws,leaders, and rituals it is governed by, then that's a question of perspective."
It's also a question of context. In the context in which TimmyC made the statement that the people is the Church, they were in error.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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October 26, 2010 6:29 AM
Almost, your opinion, not the distintion is irrelevant. Fuck off idjit.Compared to your stoopidity of monumental proportions. What part of if you don't open your mouth, you don't confirm your foolishness to other people don't you understand???Posted by: Birger Johansson
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October 26, 2010 7:27 AM
Eamon Knight # 32:
"Just call him "Vorbis", and you'll be in the right conceptual space."
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Gods-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0061092177/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288092245&sr=1-1
Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort
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October 26, 2010 8:05 AM
Oh noes, criticism of religious beliefs is hate speech!
Posted by: fbudinichd
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October 26, 2010 8:05 AM
Artists. Carpenters. Whoever that is not glued to a monitor. (I dare you to take a tablet pc/ipad to a field trip hehe)
Posted by: gaea303
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October 26, 2010 10:02 AM
"...filled with expletives and the most course language..." [sic]
I think even my middle school child knows the difference between course language and coarse language...and assuming my child doesn't, this guy, with presumably at least a high school education, should.
How embarrassing for them! They aren't going to get many converts this way....
Posted by: Professor Frink
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October 26, 2010 2:45 PM
Haha. Very true Nerd, very true.
I feel like it's been ages since we talked. What's new?
Posted by: Judy L.
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October 26, 2010 5:23 PM
The Catholic Church is a SHE? Really? Since when?
Posted by: McCthulhu is taking ∞ to eat all the pi
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October 27, 2010 7:24 AM
The thread is pretty much over, but I decided to dredge up this lump of sentiment I wrote on the CBC board a few weeks back when everyone was gushing over Pope Fritz's visit to the UK:
What really leaves me incredulous is what kind of mental acrobatics people have to engage in to have them want to remain in this ideological dinosaur and protect it. This is an institution that has engaged in genocide, especially in the Americas; obfuscated reality by trying to lock it away in the forms of Galileo and Copernicus; executed and tortured innocent people in the guise of the European inquisitions; happily signed treaties with the Third Reich; instigated wars against entire religious groups in the form of crusades; ad nauseum (Google for more fun!). It continues abhorrent behaviour in continuing to tell people that condom use is 'evil' while a viral pandemic rages in the African continent in the form of AIDS, allowing millions of people who could avoid infection to become statistical casualties of church approved ignorance.
These are the people that bellowed with outrage over a communion wafer being thrown in the trash, but wring their hands with excuses for men who are manoeuvered around the globe to rape children. Wouldn't a 'holy' church have a deity who 'moved in mysterious ways' enough to have child-raping priests impale their groins on garden rakes or choke to death on pickle juice before a single child came to harm? The recent news item from Belgium where every single church district had a child raping priest is intolerable. The fact that this Pope sent out letters (before becoming pope) threatening anyone letting the cat out of the bag about rapist priests with exommunication instead of instantly informing the authorities is outrageous and disgusting. Anyone declaring themselves a Catholic should be ashamed. Let this abomination of a 'church' die out as it deserves.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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October 27, 2010 7:52 AM
Smells like a troll farted in here after eating a troll feces burrito and stale beer. Must be one on my Pharyngula Survivor hit list. Jebus, they simply can't take the clue they have nothing cogent to say, but say it anyway, and should correct that mistake.
Posted by: Felix
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October 28, 2010 9:03 AM
P.S. to my post #22
RealCatholicTV has blocked my channel for making the single sarcastic comment I quoted (which was held back).
They still do not publish any criticism, calm and reasonable however it may be - we will never know.
Instead they inform their viewers that every single comment they allegedly receive from "the atheists" is rude, sarcastic or even threatening.
Every single one.
Even the most vile creationists receive polite criticism occasionally (that is, those few who don't prevent commenting altogether).
The YouTube community by and large understands what such censorship and active misinformation say about the channel owners.
You're welcome Catholics, these are your fruits, bon appetit.
Posted by: eviltwit
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October 28, 2010 9:54 PM
That's some hair piece he's wearing.