…and this is a 
It's almost Thanksgiving, and you know what that means: the deluge of Christmas carols is about to commence. This is the time of year when I dread turning the radio on, because I know I'll hear the same sets of songs over and over again, and the kind of uniform anti-eclecticism characteristic of Top 40 AM radio gets amplified and expanded and starts to spread everywhere. I'm always pleased to see something new, especially since it doesn't happen very often…Lennon's Happy Christmas (War is Over), Minchin's White Wine in the Sun?
Some people get cranky about anything that isn't sufficiently antiquated or sufficiently reverent, though. Now some people are freaking out over the inclusion of a song they don't like.
A Christmas CD aiming to raise funds for a Christian charity has been slammed for featuring an anti-Christian song.
Faith and family groups have labelled the song, which includes the lyrics "I get freaked out by churches," and "I'm not expecting a visit from Jesus", as "disrespectful" and a "sick joke".
But the executive producer of Myer's annual star-studded Spirit of Christmas CD has defended his decision to include the song, White Wine in the Sun.
The song, written by atheist entertainer Tim Minchin, features alongside traditional Christmas carols such as Joy to the World and Little Drummer Boy.
I don't know. I'm offended by both of those traditional Christmas carols — should I scream at WalMart and demand they be pulled from the store? Or, maybe, I should just look at the CDs and buy the ones with music I like, and understand that other people might want to buy Elmo & Patsy's Grandma Got RunOver by a Reindeer on the Country Christmas CD.
Minchin's song is quite nice. Here it is, if you hadn't heard it before:
There is one thing in this story I find objectionable.
Profits from CD sales go to The Salvation Army.
Uh, what? Tim Minchin's work is now being used to prop up a notoriously anti-gay organization? That sounds wrong.
Comments
Posted by: Aquaria
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November 23, 2010 9:05 AM
I think you forgot to close the italics tag after "White Wine in the Sun", PZ. It should be put into quotation marks, anyway. An album that they're on gets the italics.
Posted by: Phil
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November 23, 2010 9:07 AM
Utterly ridiculous screams from the poor, suppressed fundies...after all, the whole CD is being sold to raise funds for the Salvation Army, and most of it is traditional Xmas songs (shite music that it is) about Jeebus...
*falls asleep at the mere thought until a friend puts on some indie rock for him*
Posted by: te24hours
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November 23, 2010 9:09 AM
Christmas would be a lot more tolerable if everybody on both sides of the cuture wars would chill the fuck out. Here I'm thinking specifically of my family.
Of course, I think society in general would be a lot more tolerable if everybody chilled the fuck out about nearly everything.
Posted by: Holytape
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November 23, 2010 9:09 AM
This is just more proof that secular baby-eating atheist are suppressing and persecuting good christian people. Next thing you'll know, these sodomite atheist will claim that forcing children to sing Christmas carols infringes on their religious rights. The very thought of some people thinking that makes baby Jesus cry. Why do you want baby Jesus to cry?
Sasquatch Birth
Posted by: bananacat
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November 23, 2010 9:11 AM
One of my radio stations has already been playing nothing but Christmas music for over a week. I actually like a few of the songs, but it's the same songs year after year and it's just boring. Really, can't they even wait until after Thanksgiving to start with this?
Posted by: Blueaussi
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November 23, 2010 9:20 AM
I like that song. I wonder if the album will be on Amazon or iTunes where the one song can be bought without all the traditional stuff?
Posted by: bart.mitchell
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November 23, 2010 9:22 AM
I remember the first time I heard White Wine in the Sun. I bawled my eyes out. It was exactly the type of Christmas we used to have. And it's exactly what I would consider the 'true' meaning of Christmas.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap
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November 23, 2010 9:22 AM
Some years ago I found a history of Christmas which included a gem about the origins of Christmas carols in the U.S. In the early 19th century when the economy was still mostly agricultural the farm laborers without land of their own had no work after the harvest. Of course the landowners cut them loose to fend for themselves (what else?). Singing a Christmas carol was a form of veiled threat. The homeowner gave the carolers food and booze to make them go away and not vandalize the place. We wish you a merry Christmas takes on a whole new meaning.
I wish I could provide a citation for this (too long ago and too foggy a memory of the specifics). Does anyone know of any source for this?
Posted by: Q.E.D
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November 23, 2010 9:23 AM
I'm curious, just how far religiots expect the "respect cordon" to extend around their religious sensibilities?
They want us to not exist don't they?
Posted by: Zeno
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November 23, 2010 9:24 AM
"Little Drummer Boy" ranks high on my list of nonfavorite Christmas songs. It makes my teeth hurt and I suspect it induces diabetes.
Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD)
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November 23, 2010 9:25 AM
That's a pretty nice arrangement. I'm gonna go search for a listing of the chords.
Posted by: startlingmoniker
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November 23, 2010 9:25 AM
This is the time of year when I dread turning the radio on, because I know I'll hear the same sets of songs over and over again, and the kind of uniform anti-eclecticism characteristic of Top 40 AM radio gets amplified and expanded and starts to spread everywhere.
...and that's why we have community radio. Might I suggest you give WDBX a try via our webstream? http://www.wdbx.org
Posted by: Bruce Gorton
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November 23, 2010 9:29 AM
One: Little Drummer boy is a frigging war crime.
That said I find it kind of hilarious that the Salvation Army are getting money from a song sung by Boney M.
Two: Its nice hearing a Christmas song that isn't singing about snow, sledding or other activities that sound like great fun - if I didn't live in the Southern hemisphere.
Three: Christmas Shoes.
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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November 23, 2010 9:31 AM
Guess I'm gonna have to buy the CD... given that the Salvos are disappointed by its inclusion on the cd - it seems appropriate to mess with them by trying to make sure it sells well.
Maybe I can write to them and give them the opportunity to return to me the amount of money they get from my purchase, as their protest?
Yeah, I'm sure they'll want to do that...
Posted by: richardprins
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November 23, 2010 9:33 AM
The Vandals - "Hang Myself From The Tree" and "A Gun For Christmas" :)
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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November 23, 2010 9:33 AM
It was on both as a single last year, so I assume it's still there. It's also on Minchin's album "Ready for This".
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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November 23, 2010 9:34 AM
We had a decent list of Holiday themed music on another thread. Holiday music you can listen to and not want to smash your temporal lobe with a ball peen hammer.
I know I started my list here and others added to it, or add add to theirs.
or something like that
Posted by: DaveL
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November 23, 2010 9:35 AM
By the time I got to
...a dead Palestinian
Press-ganged into selling
Playstations and beer
I was laughing uncontrollably.
Posted by: TriciaG28
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November 23, 2010 9:36 AM
Tim Minchen has put on his Twitter Page that all proceeds from HIS version of his song (the version on the CD is not him singing) will go to a secular charity. He's a bit pissed off about the whole thing and claims no one attempted to contact him from the paper.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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November 23, 2010 9:40 AM
add add = added
Posted by: db32
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November 23, 2010 9:46 AM
No no no! There is no Christmas! This Jesus fellow is a pretender. Even if he did exist he certainly wasn't born 25 Dec. However, I know someone who was. Sir Isaac Newton did more for us than this Jesus fellow ever did.
So get out your apples and alchemy sets and celebrate Newton Mass!
dy dx
dy dx
dy dx
dy dx (think Carol of the Bells tune)(And yes I know that is Leibniz notation, you come up with a better Newton Mass carol)
Posted by: fauxrs
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November 23, 2010 9:47 AM
Ready for this, is a live album and has White wine in the sun on it, I bought it about a month ago and it is now my fave xmas song.
Im with bart.mitchell, it just defines what our family xmas's have been like for years, especially since in southern california, its quite easy to comfortably sit outside in the sun sipping wine in december.
Posted by: Alice Bluegown
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November 23, 2010 9:48 AM
There is only ONE Christmas record...
Posted by: TriciaG28
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November 23, 2010 9:54 AM
Favourite Xmas song - Fairytale of New York
"You're a bum, you're a punk!"
"You're a oul slut on junk, lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed"
"You scumbag, ya maggot, ya cheap lousy faggot, Happy Christmas, yer arse, I pray god it's our last".
Who said romance was dead?! ;)
Posted by: charley
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November 23, 2010 9:55 AM
How fucked-up do you have to be to describe a sentimental Christmas song expressing heartfelt affection for family as "a sick joke"?
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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November 23, 2010 9:57 AM
Gee, if only there were some sort of button one could press on a CD player that made a bad mean track go away.
Anti-gay organization? Didn't know it before, but it's not surprising, and it fucking figures. When I was working on my Halloween costume, I noticed that the Goodwill had disappeared, so now it appears that Salvation Army is the only thrift store game in town.
"I remember the first time I heard White Wine in the Sun. I bawled my eyes out. It was exactly the type of Christmas we used to have. And it's exactly what I would consider the 'true' meaning of Christmas."
Obviously, your Christmas isn't the right kind of Christmas.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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November 23, 2010 10:02 AM
TriciaG28 @ #24:
You beat me to it. I never hear that one on the radio, though. Here's the video.
Posted by: TriciaG28
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November 23, 2010 10:04 AM
It's ALWAYS on the radio here in Ireland in the run up to Xmas. Gotta love The Pogues!
Posted by: te24hours
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November 23, 2010 10:04 AM
Aw, I actually like The Little Drummer Boy. I like the idea that doing your best for someone is an excellent gift.
Posted by: AJS
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November 23, 2010 10:04 AM
Fuck the Salvation Army and everything they stand for.
They run the clothing recycling bank at my local supermarket. I'd rather my old clothes went into landfill than helped them.
In fact, and I hope it never comes to this, I would like to think I would starve to death sooner than accept anything from the Salvation Army.
On a more positive note, here is some evidence that it's not all shite on the wireless at this time of year: Greg Lake, "I believe in Father Christmas". The Pogues and Kirsty McColl, "Fairytale of New York". The Pretenders, "2000 Miles".
Oh, yeah, R.I.P. Kirsty.
Posted by: geralcorasjo
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November 23, 2010 10:07 AM
The Oppression! It runs so deep!
Posted by: Enkidu
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November 23, 2010 10:08 AM
Lover her voice, and the song, well, the song is about my Christmas!
Posted by: wanderinweeta
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November 23, 2010 10:09 AM
I cried. And finally came to terms with celebrating Christmas this year. Babies being passed around, good food, good drink, good talk, and remembering family far away.
Although I'm afraid when I see those new babies going from arm to arm, I'm going to embarrass myself by crying again.
Posted by: Marv
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November 23, 2010 10:11 AM
The best Christmas song of all time is actually "Father Christmas" by the Kinks:
Have yourself a merry merry Christmas
Have yourself a good time
But remember the kids who got nothin'
While you're drinkin' down your wine
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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November 23, 2010 10:11 AM
Speaking of Kirsty MacColl. This oughta warm you up if you have the winter blues.
Posted by: Moggie
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November 23, 2010 10:18 AM
Babies, plural? My family makes do with just one baby, roast, with all the trimmings.
Posted by: MichelleZB
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November 23, 2010 10:20 AM
I don't actually like the Minchin song. I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd really appreciate something with a catchier tune.
Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes
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November 23, 2010 10:20 AM
Oh yeah, Fairytale of NY, the best one ever
But I like this one, too, since it really expresses what christmas is to me.
Except for the white wine, of course, I prefer red
Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives
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November 23, 2010 10:25 AM
Does that mean they broke copyright? In the US that would get their ass handed to them.
Posted by: alistair.coleman
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November 23, 2010 10:27 AM
Christmas Wrapping by The Waitresses? Them's fight-to-the-death words.
Posted by: palaeodave
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November 23, 2010 10:28 AM
For an alternative Christmas song, I would recommend Christmas Is Awesome by Reuben.
Posted by: christophe-thill.myopenid.com
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November 23, 2010 10:35 AM
Never heard White wine in the sun so I Googled the lyrics. Hey, that's really sweet and sentimental. True spirit of Christmas, if you want my opinion. What's not to like in it?
Another good song for the season? Merry Xmas everybody by Slade. Appropriately merry, but noisy enough, with a sort of half-drunk fun.
Posted by: startlingmoniker
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November 23, 2010 10:36 AM
The Salvation Army is awful in our area-- constantly yakking about all the good they do, but absolutely corrupt to the bones.
Posted by: madrone
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November 23, 2010 10:37 AM
I've been listening to the Tim Minchen version frequently of late (it's that time of ear) and am offended that this beautiful song has been ravaged by the soulless squawkings of that talentless woman.
Posted by: Cor (formerly evil)
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November 23, 2010 10:38 AM
CDs? Radio? *cough*old man*cough*
Posted by: christophe-thill.myopenid.com
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November 23, 2010 10:39 AM
Hey, while I was at it, I Googled the Little drummer boy too, and was quite surprised whean I read the lyrics. A real glurge. I must say that I only knew the French version, in which a child mourns his father who followed the drums and went to war and died. Slightly different!
Posted by: scott.anthony.robson
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November 23, 2010 10:41 AM
This is one of my favourite Christmas songs - only one mention of Jesus and I'm not even sure what the point is in the song. But, the song is more about family and food - the real meaning of Christmas and always has been.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb4YWJgfmQE&feature=related
Posted by: te24hours
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November 23, 2010 10:42 AM
Evilcor,
CD is still the best widely available audiophile format (unless you like vinyl with hisses and pops.).
Posted by: Mephit
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November 23, 2010 10:53 AM
Much prefer Tim Minchin himself singing it.
Posted by: Kevin
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November 23, 2010 10:53 AM
Heh. At my house, we play the South Park Christmas album.
No kidding.
Merry f*****g Christmas.
And watch the 24 hour Christmas Story marathon.
"You'll shoot your eye out!"
Posted by: ThatOtherGuy
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November 23, 2010 10:58 AM
White Wine In the Sun is beautiful, I can't listen to it without crying.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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November 23, 2010 11:02 AM
Carlie @ #39:
My guess is that his publishing company brokered the deal. They wouldn't need his permission if he signed a deal that allows them to exploit his copyrighted material on his (and their) behalf, which is about the only deal they would offer (plus, that's the only good reason for songwriters to give their publishing share to a publishing company anyway).
Posted by: James Sweet
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November 23, 2010 11:04 AM
Well, despite the unfortunate issue of it being to benefit Salvation Army and being against Minchin's wishes, I have to say, I like the cover even better than the original. That's just a beautiful arrangement.
Posted by: them.bones
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November 23, 2010 11:06 AM
My favorite Christmas song is Weird Al's "The Night Santa Went Crazy."
Posted by: Cor (formerly evil)
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November 23, 2010 11:07 AM
You'd better hope like hell it doesn't "come to this."
If it ever did, you might have to unflex a little, as I had to earlier this year when the Sals helped me out of a tight spot. In gratitude I might buy that shitty CD, or just donate something now that I'm back on my feet.
Funny how you can guess the age of a poster by how absolute right and wrong are for them, and how confident they seem that they'll never have to slither on their belly to a religious charity to get the lights back on.
Anyway, they're not all bad. And the best Christmas song is "Punk Rock Christmas" by various artists.
Posted by: sqlrob
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November 23, 2010 11:09 AM
PZ, if you don't have it, you might want to look into "A Very Scary Solstice" and "An Even Scarier Solstice"
It's starting to look a lot like fishmas!
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/BK6Zrm4Qh47ihubALKWHZbgrMtqxOiZsVEU-#52eea
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November 23, 2010 11:09 AM
@db32 #21
As lyrics, using Newton notation, you could sing:
x-dot, v-dot [velocity and acceleration respectively]
x-dot, v-dot
x-dot, v-dot
x-dot, v-dot
Posted by: Susan
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November 23, 2010 11:11 AM
Anyone can license music and record their own version, for about 9 cents or so a copy. Congress said so. See:https://www.harryfox.com/public/FAQ.jsp#9
The number of religious folks who've recorded various (inappropriate, if they understood them) Randy Newman tunes is pretty high. He still gets the royalties.
Posted by: CaptTu
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November 23, 2010 11:11 AM
Tim tweeted Nov 20th...
I gave my song for free, putting aside my philosophical objection to the salvation army for the sake of beneficiaries. Imbeciles.
And...
As far as I know, there was no attempt to contact me, unless my manager fobbed them off, which would be justified, cos it's so dumb.
By the way, the version on the CD isn't mine. It's by the wonderful & hot @kmillerheidke. I guess she wasn't available for comment either.
And has been mentioned...
Pls RT! From Nov21-Jan1, all proceeds from my version of White Wine in the Sun will go to a secular charity. http://tinyurl.com/whitewine
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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November 23, 2010 11:14 AM
Oh, the song isn't even Tim Minchin's version? In that case, they don't even need permission to record it. They just have to pay royalties.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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November 23, 2010 11:20 AM
Also, I like "Merry Christmas Baby", "Santa's Blues" and "Christmas Comes But Once a Year" by Charles Brown (the blues artist, not the cartoon).
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
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November 23, 2010 11:21 AM
Or, as ST would have put it:Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold
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November 23, 2010 11:23 AM
Why would a song written by an Australian, covered by another Australian and released on an Australian record label be covered by US copyright laws ?
Also, the Salvation Army outside the US does not seem to have the same problems with gays as does the US branch.
Posted by: taylorbad
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November 23, 2010 11:27 AM
How can this discussion get this far without mentioning fellow Minnesotan Bob Dylan's Christmas album from last year? So much to love, so much to hate. It's perfect.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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November 23, 2010 11:29 AM
It wouldn't, but copyright laws are quite similar the world over, at least for music.
Posted by: BobbyJim
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November 23, 2010 11:34 AM
I'm a bit surprised to see the comments re: Sally Ann. It's the one Christian charity I donate to, they run a large addiction treatment operation here, their drop-in centre for military troops while I was active were a real treat, and we weren't proselytized at all. I'd sooner give to their thrift shop than the Value Village "for profit" business..
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkL6rop7ope6a9ysVWsdSU1FNTAQmmW9gw
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November 23, 2010 11:51 AM
Might I recommend as an alternative the H. P. Lovecraft Historical Society's two Scary Solstice albums?
They have some excellent dark parodies on them.
Posted by: NewEnglandBob
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November 23, 2010 11:52 AM
Radio still exists?????
People still listen to it???
Posted by: pensnest
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November 23, 2010 12:06 PM
What PZ really needs in order to celebrate Christmas in the proper spirit... are these cards.
http://www.etsy.com/listing/61122300/10-seasons-aloha-cards-white
In fact, an Etsy search for 'tentacles' will probably net him all the gifts he needs to buy.
Posted by: wanderinweeta
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November 23, 2010 12:09 PM
Moggie #36
We had a good crop this year; no need to skimp.
Posted by: mikerattlesnake
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November 23, 2010 12:24 PM
The band I play percussion for (whoooooooring) is covering that pogues tune at a christmas show! We also have a really good song about priest abuse which, given our limited repertoire, will most likely also be played.
Posted by: Bill Door
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November 23, 2010 12:30 PM
When I was littler, my family used to annoy each other with a little gem called Christmas Rap Music.
Still doesn't feel like the holidays if I don't hear it.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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November 23, 2010 12:32 PM
I read that as
Posted by: BEG
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November 23, 2010 12:36 PM
I haven't stepped foot in SA for years; I donate to Goodwill instead.
Salvation Army Uses Homeless To Fight Gay Benefits.
Posted by: Moggie
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November 23, 2010 12:39 PM
Kind of wish I hadn't listened to this, since it reminded me that I'll never see mum or dad again. That's the main reason I don't do Christmas any more.
On a more upbeat note:
Ring Out, Solstice Bells
Posted by: BurtClifton
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November 23, 2010 12:43 PM
I've got the misfortune to live in a complex where the flat next to me is rented by the Salvation Army. Every few months, we get a brand new ex-convict. Don't get me wrong... I'm all for giving them a second chance - *if* they're willing to stop doing the shit that put them in jail in the first place. But most of these ones aren't.
We've even had a few convicted paedophiles, and our complex is right down the road from a primary school. At the very least, the police are required by law to be notified if a sex offender moves into the complex. This NEVER happens.
As for the Salvation Army themselves, they do almost zero in the way of checking up on the tenants or any kind of oversight in general. They just dump them here and it becomes the problem of all the other tenants.
In a relatively secular country like New Zealand, I'd at least hoped that an organisation with such an openly religious agenda wouldn't receive any kind of public funding, but alas.
Posted by: Eamon Knight
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November 23, 2010 12:56 PM
@21: And yes I know that is Leibniz notation, you come up with a better Newton Mass carol
Already done:
http://thinkingforfree.blogspot.com/2009/12/today-marks-367th-anniversary-of-birth.html
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/cemAX6cih9TgU2BOcZGfj1yv.Ps-#8fef5
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November 23, 2010 1:01 PM
For a great Christmas album that charts its own path, check out "The Jethro Tull Christmas Album," which came out in 2003.
I also remember James Brown's "Santa's Got a Brand-New Bag" with the memorable "Santa Claus, Go Straight to the Ghetto."
-- Slaughter
Posted by: Bill Door
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November 23, 2010 1:07 PM
#73
Trying to Godwin a Christmas thread?
Posted by: hipopotamo
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November 23, 2010 1:07 PM
I'd have to confess that I actually like Little Drummer Boy: I like the polyphonic chorus arrangement, and as a little kid all I could understand of the lyrics was "ru-poh-poh-pohn".
Chatolics should steer away from Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer. Isn't that an allegory for gay people? And they are playing it on mainstream radio! Chatolics unite! Ban Rudolph and his sinful ways! How he dares to be different!
By the way, if you decide not to ban Rudolph go get Jewel's rendering of the song.
My other favorites are:
Grandma got run over by a reeinder, I actually created Spanish lyrics for that!
All I want for Xmas is my Two Fronth Teeth
And my all-time favorite (you can guess it from my user-name): I want a Hippopotamus for Christmas by Gayla Peevey.
And now, if they could just hold the Xmas pharafernalia until December. Not having thanksgiving in Mexico the stores decorate as early as mid November. How they dare put Xmas decorations on my Birthday week!
Cheers
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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November 23, 2010 1:08 PM
I do what I can.
Posted by: «bønez_brigade»
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November 23, 2010 1:09 PM
Minchin's own version is mighty fine, too.
Posted by: mikerattlesnake
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November 23, 2010 1:13 PM
@80
I guess someone has to like all the worst christmas songs.
Posted by: Stonyground
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November 23, 2010 1:17 PM
I was going to recommend Merry Xmas Everybody by Slade but someone beat me to it, in the UK I now cannot imagine Christmas without it. I wish it could be Christmas everyday by Wizzard is also special as is Greg Lake. Jethro Tull made a Christmas album which has a different version of 'Soltice Bells' and some excellent original songs. It also includes instrumental arrangements of carols that are whimsical and slightly cheesy but very professionally done.
I also loath the little drummer boy.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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November 23, 2010 1:17 PM
Run Rudolph Run
Posted by: mike.s.young
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November 23, 2010 1:32 PM
I'm mildly surprised nobody has mentioned Jonathon Coulton:
Christmas is interesting
Chiron Beta Prime
Posted by: Cobolt
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November 23, 2010 1:32 PM
That's my Xmas right there in that song. I'll have to find Tim's version now.
Posted by: IO
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November 23, 2010 1:37 PM
My favourite is Tom Lehrer's Christmas Carol
Hark, the Herald Tribune sings
advertising wondrous things.
God rest ye, merry merchants may ye make the yuletide pay.
Angels we have heard on high tell us to go out and buy.
Posted by: maggi.cassell
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November 23, 2010 2:10 PM
And let's not forget Roy Zimmerman's tour-de-force "Christmas Is Pain".
There's a snippet at http://www.amazon.com/Christmas-Is-Pain/dp/B0012PEJAE
Sadly, I haven't found a video of Roy himself performing this one. Without the harmonica solo (a half-step out of key), you don't get to experience the true marvelous, howling, (musical) pain of the song.
Posted by: cs.rean
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November 23, 2010 2:19 PM
I'm always greatly amused by the Christians bleating about how oppressed they are at Christmas time. A favourite whine fest is the Kung Pow Buckaroo Christmas (they make sure to get a "dig" at teh ebil atheists hating Christmas).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwKI82CTp2o
Posted by: Vicki, Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
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November 23, 2010 2:27 PM
I envy all of you who can completely avoid other people's over-playing of this stuff. Turning off the radio wouldn't help in my case.
I went shopping for clothes last week (because it's best not to do so between Thanksgiving and New Year's), and there was Christmas music on the store PA system. If I walk through or past the railroad station, there's a Salvation Army panhandler with a bell; last December they were playing Christmas songs, not just ringing the bell.
Yes, I could wander around with headphones all the time, but that's problematic in terms of everything from noticing dangerous traffic to talking to a cashier while buying groceries.
I know, I know, my feet and railroad are also obsolete, and I should never need anything that I can't order online a day or week in advance. And trade for a standardized body such that I can be sure something I find in a catalog will fit without having to try it on.
Posted by: grudgedk
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November 23, 2010 2:28 PM
Wait what? The Salvation Army, the one that wears fashionable red and blue uniforms, plays instruments, sings songs and gives to charity are the anti-gay army? What does that make the one wearing camouflage, carrying rifles, killing people and blowing up enemy towns?
Posted by: Randy (not Randy)
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November 23, 2010 2:45 PM
AJS @30,
I Believe in Father Christmas isn't even ELP's most accurate Christmas song, at least not here in the States.
Pirates way more better captures the 'Merukin spirit of Christmas way better.
Jokes aside, I really love it when I Believe in Father Christmas gets air play during Teh Holidays. Because I know whoever hit the Play button didn't listen to the lyrics at all.
(Aaaaand, he stuck the landing on the double HTML, link and italics!)
Posted by: Erulóra (formerly KOPD)
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November 23, 2010 2:54 PM
From the comments on the link @90:
Um, maybe they're confused because that's fucking dumb. You're basically saying you're offended by the existence of non-Christians, and the acknowledgement that those non-believers do actually exist. It's both fucking dumb and fucking arrogant.The video and the comments are all about how you supposedly can't say "Christmas" anymore because you'll offend somebody. That's only partly true. What's actually happening is people would like to not have to say Christmas, but these idiots want to force them to. And then there is the partly true part - some retailers ask their employees to not assume that every customer is Christian. Oooh, how evil.
Stupid should hurt.
(Well, stupid does hurt. It burns terribly every time I see it. But I meant it should hurt the idiot, not the observer. Something mild, like that feeling of sticking your tongue on a battery every time you say something really stupid.)
Posted by: Leah Jaclyn
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November 23, 2010 2:56 PM
I used to be in the Salvos, and as far as churches go, it's not a bad one, and certainly I've never heard of them being anti gay over here, maybe that is a purely american problem.
Venables has how ever always been a slightly humourless man, so I'm not surprised by his reaction.
Posted by: Michael Kingsford Gray
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November 23, 2010 3:16 PM
Boney M? Black Germans singing a song about a Jew?
Posted by: formosus
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November 23, 2010 3:20 PM
Put me in the camp that enjoys Tim's version more. I'm not really a huge fan of the cover version. I'm from Southern California too, so the idea of white wine in the sun really hits home. I've only had a "white christmas" once, and I was visiting my family in Wisconsin. Snow is cold, white xmas is highly overrated.
Also, place me in the camp that loathes christmas music. It was ok the first time. Kind of annoying the second time. But now that I've been listening to the same goddamn songs every year for 15 years or so now, I'm kind of tired of them. Top 40 radio is bad enough, but at least those songs change out after a month or so. With christmas music, it's the same shit nonstop. And they're starting it earlier and earlier. There's a radio station in my area that's been playing christmas music for almost a month now, and it's not even thanksgiving yet. Blech.
Posted by: Circe
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November 23, 2010 3:23 PM
db32:
Here are some(perhaps more accurate) starting lines for a Newton Mass carol, as you asked for:
m times x double dot is F,
Which also is p dot...
etc etc.....
PS: I hate fluxions.
Posted by: oihorse
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November 23, 2010 3:23 PM
Hands down my favorite Xmas CD.
Posted by: greytrench
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November 23, 2010 3:34 PM
I am shocked (SHOCKED!) at the bias and discrimination presented in those lyrics. Dismissing beer as something to be hawked by consumerist corporations, while extolling the virtues of "white wine in the sun"? Shame! A quality IPA or porter will stand its ground against all but the highest quality product vintners have to offer.
Which is not to say the song didn't make me sniffle.
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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November 23, 2010 3:38 PM
Apparently this song was against the 'Christian ethos', so since this song is about the importance of family I have to conclude that family values aren't part of the 'Christian ethos'.the only thing that seems to matter is deference to the faith...
I mean, seriously? Are they serious? Fucking wowsers!
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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November 23, 2010 4:01 PM
AJS, why not start a clothing trade box at your local laundromat or apartment's laundry room? MsEditor, a friend of mine, lives in a co-op rental apartment building: her laundry room has a full-sized shelf overflowing with free books donated by the people who live there and a smaller collection of free clothes, household goods, etc.
Posted by: IO
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November 23, 2010 4:08 PM
oihorse, thank you, thank you! That's exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for!
I got an Xmas music sampler on sale (yes, I need some cheese between the Pogues, Pretenders and Tom Lehrer) with the Boney M tune and it never fails to make me laugh (while after 1.5 times of listening to it, I'm already sick of Wham's Last Christmas…). Now, I'm going to compare and contrast the Punk Rock Xmas and the We Wish You A Metal Christmas CDs
Oh, and I love the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Search for Wizards in Winter and then watch the video of the house of this crazy guy in Ohio who had his Xmas decoration light up in time with the song...
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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November 23, 2010 4:10 PM
Oh, f'r'heaven's sake, people, do a Web search for Web radio or Internet radio and find what you like.
http://www.mikesradioworld.com/
http://www.naxosradio.com/home.asp
etc.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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November 23, 2010 4:17 PM
Paging Sven. Paging Sven. Prescriptivist to post #84, please.Posted by: Thebear, just an agent of peas
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November 23, 2010 4:18 PM
Boney M?
It's just a shame that they didn't include the last verse
Posted by: oihorse
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November 23, 2010 4:41 PM
@IO
If you enjoy that CD, definitely check out the Vandal's Oi! to the World CD (Gwen butchered that song by covering it).
Now if I could just find a good '70's Xmas Oi! CD compilation my holidays would be complete.
Posted by: dexitroboper
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November 23, 2010 4:50 PM
Kate Miller-Heidke's Facebook song is hilarious.
Posted by: iamnothouse.com
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November 23, 2010 5:13 PM
Goddamnit, Tim Minchin continues to impress me. I'm just sad I missed him when he rolled into town this summer
Posted by: Living With Mormons
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November 23, 2010 5:20 PM
This is now my favorite Christmas song. Beautiful.
Posted by: eumides
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November 23, 2010 5:53 PM
Zeno, waaaaay up in comment #10 said:
Nah. Say it causes autism and link it to an anti-vaccer rant. Sit back and watch the fun!
Posted by: Mark
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November 23, 2010 6:03 PM
Thank you PZ for that song. It was truly beautiful. I've now listened to it 4 times and cried each time.
In 1980, I was listening to the evening news on CBS or NBC. It was just the news. No big deal. John had died a few weeks earlier and it was Christmas Eve so the story of his death was an old story by then, so no need to bring it up again. And it wasn't.
So the news was over and they broke into their closing song. It wasn't their usual song, nor was it a traditional xmas song. It was John's "This is Christmas". I was 28 years old then and I started bawling. To this day that song makes me cry. Now I have another beautiful xmas song to make me cry. And these songs are about the real meaning of xmas. Families and friends and the love of all mankind.
Thank you PZ, I needed that.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM
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November 23, 2010 6:15 PM
Notice how the reindeer, especially Olive, are down on Rudolph until the Boss says "You're my boy." "Then all the reindeer loved him."
Reindeer are brown-nosers.
Posted by: Donnie B.
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November 23, 2010 6:29 PM
I recently bought a new clothes washer. The old one was still working, so I looked for a charity to donate it to -- I figured at least someone could get some use out of it.
The only place I could find that would take it was the Salvation Army. I called them to set up a pickup, and got put on hold. The canned on-hold message was so full of Christian blather that I hung up.
I let Lowes' delivery guys take the old machine away. I don't know what they do with them, but it's got to be better than letting the SA have it.
Posted by: realinterrobang
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November 23, 2010 7:00 PM
Holy squid, what an awful song. I guess it really is true what Dostoevski said about happy families being all alike, and unhappy families being unhappy in their own ways, because the thing that stresses me out most about Christmas is having to spend it with my holidays, and squid help me once my generation starts having babies. *shudder*
So...maundering lyrics that wander off into diabetes-inducing sentimentality in the last half of the song, a singer who is about a quarter-tone flat on the first note and who has one of those annoying breathy little-girl voices so beloved in female singer circles these days (folks, go listen to some Ofra Haza and call me back). I had to go listen to some Dead Kennedys to clean out my brain again.
Also, I'm sorry, but describing even the completely mythical (albeit literary-canonically Jewish) Jesus as a "dead Palestinian" is offensive, and buys right into that stupid antisemitic frame about how there are no Jews actually from the Levant because they're all European converts these days. Which would be news to some Jews I know whose families have always lived there.
Bah fucking humbug. And shame on the artist for allowing it to be used to enrich the fucking Sally Anns, too.
Posted by: =8)-DX
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November 23, 2010 7:30 PM
One of the most "beautiful" although sentimental songs of Tim Minchin. The cover is really under par because Tim's rendition is such genius. One wonderful thing I discovered last year was "alt" Xmas songs - Bob Dylan's Christmas In The Heart, with the wonder naughty "Must be Santa" clip on the interwebs (that's how I imagine a good festive occasion). But then people lose a sense of humour around Christmas, some of them anyway.
Posted by: paulmurray
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November 23, 2010 7:32 PM
I might mention that the lyrics are especially evocative for Australians - Christmas is summertime down here. Christmas *means* BBQs in muggy 30 degree (centigrade) heat. When else do you drink wine outside in baking heat, everyone just a slightly dressed up because it's an occasion?
Posted by: Bored Wombat
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November 23, 2010 7:32 PM
This is Timmy at his best.
How long has the world be waiting for a Christmas Carol that is sweet but funny that makes a break from all those things that Christmas is not about, but that occurs in all the other Christmas Carols.
Namely Snow and Jesus.
(Although props to Lehrer for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtZR3lJobjw)
Christmas is in the height of summer. It's hot, it's sunny, there are no snowmen. There is white wine, and cider.
Remember that. "White wine in the Sun" should help.
Posted by: Cobolt
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November 23, 2010 7:36 PM
Wow realinterrobang,issues much?
if you ever have kids of your own you'll understand the song and the "True" meaning of xmas as most of western society has come to understand it.
Posted by: paulmurray
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November 23, 2010 7:40 PM
"So...maundering lyrics that wander off into diabetes-inducing sentimentality in the last half of the song"
Gotta admit - Tim starts to lose me when he starts getting into how awesome it is to be a parent.
"describing ... Jesus as a "dead Palestinian" is offensive, and buys right into that stupid antisemitic frame"
Dude - the so-called "jews" are white. Look at 'em - they are white. The cast of Seinfeld is white. The people being walled up in Gaza are semites. The image of the arab terrorist - the hooked nose, the beady eyes - is largely identical to the azi propaganda posters of jews. That's what anti-semitism is about.
You know the story of the "Good Samaritan"? Which were the samaritans? They were descendants of the jews who didn't go into exile in Babylonia and Persia, who didn't learn a load of weird-ass zoroastrianism and its monotheism, and who - when those jews returned - were roundly persecuted as not being "real jews". Ring any bells?
Posted by: Bored Wombat
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November 23, 2010 7:57 PM
BTW: Tim tweeted these on Sunday: (21/11/10)
Aussies! If you have read this- http://bit.ly/bcS9pb , think the Salvos' reaction is ungracious & enjoy my Xmas song: please read next tweet
____
Pls RT! From Nov21-Jan1, all proceeds from my version of White Wine in the Sun will go to a secular charity. http://tinyurl.com/whitewine
Posted by: Cor (formerly evil)
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November 23, 2010 8:01 PM
Just like You-Know-Who.
Posted by: GravityIsJustATheory
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November 23, 2010 9:10 PM
Posted by: hipopotamo Author Profile Page |
Surely it's an allegory for Communism ;)
***
On the subject of carols, I have to confess that despite this being my second atheist Christmas (and having ceased to be a true believer several years bofore that), I still like a lot of the traditional religious carols, particuarly Silent Night, Oh Come All Ye Faithful, and Hark! The Herald Angels Sing, and sometimes find myself humming them to myself.
***
On the subject of the Sally Army, I'd never heard anything against them before this*, and had assumed they were a harmless or beneficial organization that did a lot of good work.
That said, having just looked over their website and some of their doctrines do sound a bit fanatical (but not necessarily any more so that mainstream Christianity when looked at in the cold light of day). And their more detailed handbook of doctrine seems to suffer from the cognative dissonance of saying that the Bible was written by humans (under divine inspiration) and shouldn't be as a science text book - and then starts talking about sin and the Fall as if the Garden of Eden story (talking snakes and all) was true.
* Appart from when the Russians accused them of being a paramilitary organization and tried to ban them.
Posted by: Paul H
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November 23, 2010 11:26 PM
Wow! Wasn't expecting to hear Kate-Miller-Heidke on Pharyngula. She was studying opera at the Brisbane Conservatorium of Music back in 2000. Insider tip: she's not as weird as she lets on. Seemed pretty normal to me.
Posted by: Xavier Ninnis
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November 24, 2010 12:59 AM
I'm with Mephit (#49), while she's a wonderful voice, her interpretation doesn't come near his which moves me utterly.
Posted by: scooterKPFT
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November 24, 2010 1:50 AM
Salvation Army?
I guess that's why they included a wino song.
Posted by: lordsetar
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November 24, 2010 2:14 AM
About to start? On one station here it's started already. I keep my radio on the classic rock station though, so the most I get is Happy Xmas (War Is Over), Do They Know It's Christmas, and some classic-rock renditions of traditional carols every now and again.
GravityIsJustATheory #123:
I went to a funeral service that was officiated by a Salvation Army pastor year before last. It was okay until he started making not-so-subtle hints about the afterlife and playing the awful, condescending, insulting song known as "The Gospel Train", which made me view them with a lot more skepticism though I still put some change in the red kettle last year.
After hearing this crap, it will take an intervention from the big bearded sky daddy himself to get me to give them -anything-. My old clothes will be donated to Value Village from now on.
Posted by: pensnest
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November 24, 2010 4:25 AM
GravityIsJustATheory #123
I know what you mean about the traditional carols. The musical theatre group I'm in used to sing carols locally, and somewhen in the last few years that has died out. I miss the carols. They're really *singable*.
Also, more generally—wot? No love for the Springsteen "Santa Claus is Coming To Town"?
Posted by: thumbnail
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November 24, 2010 4:50 AM
Personally I prefer something with a bit more kick to it, X-Fusions "No Fiend To Exorcise" being one of my favourites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo8OUfxtvvY
Posted by: Jeanette Garcia
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November 24, 2010 5:54 AM
i have Minchin on my iTunes (love that guy). As for radio, I listen to the progressive stations over the internet. I need to find someone who can hook up a speaker from my office computer to my kitchen. I do listen to Public radio and luckily live in a city that has a University radio station and a really good Community College radio station. I also love WOZ, an independent radio station out of New Orleans, that I pick up on the internet.
Posted by: shonny
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November 24, 2010 5:57 AM
Those who think the Salvos are 'ok' should read Jack London's People of the Abyss.
And quite correct TriciaG28 , the ultimate Season Carol is Fairytale!
But Stille Nacht sung by a proper choir, in a decent pace, ain't all that 'orrible either, when in German.
And White Wine in the Sun brings up memories of many an Antipodean Season with no regard for the mood that the white stuff (aka snow) creates, so one got pissed instead.
Posted by: wasd
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November 24, 2010 8:04 AM
My sentiment exactly.It should be noted that Minchin isn't particularly aiming for the christmas CD (or teenage) markets. He gets up in front of an audience full of the most rapid secularists who have paid for an evening of the most hilarious profane superstition bashing comedy... and sings this song. He really likes christmas. IIRC Minchin spends his live split across the UK and touring in the US while the rest of his family lives in Australia (?) so christmas in the sun would be important to him. My impression always was that that song is heartfelt in a way that jinglebell rock just isn't. Its sentimental I know, but I really like it.
#8
Sources for the origins on christmas celebrations? Well I guess I could I find something reliable like wikipedia but I guess my personal experience will have to do. For the Americans, lets just go over the proper traditional way to celebrate the saint Nicolaas celebration one more time:
Sinterklaas arrived just a week ago, like always, on a steamboat from Spain, where he lives. He had to arrive in time to celebrate his birthday on December the 5th. He still had his white beard and still was dressed in the traditional red bishops dress. He brought his white horse which he rides across the tops of the roofs because thats how he gets the presents to the chimneys. He also brought his costumed troop of black funny sounding helpers called “black pete”. Now everyone knows that the old fashioned white guy has a bunch of black helpers because they have to go up and down chimneys all day. Obviously they are black from all the sooth. So if you see a parade of an old white guy on a horse giving orders to dressed up people in blackface thats what that is, okay?! So you guys might be a little late to the party but there is still couple of nights that you can leave your shoe at the fireplace (or the radiator of the central heating system) and expect them filled with candy in the morning. There is the chocolate letters and the small nut sized gingerbread cookies called pepper nuts. Don't forget to put a carrot in your shoe... for the horse. Odds are that if you have been nice for the year then on the evening of the fifth of December there will be loud banging at the front door and when you go to look there will be a massive bag full of presents and the entire family can spend all evening reading the attached poems and unwrapping. Once you get a little older sinterklaas doesn't provide the present anymore so you you and your class will have to exchange presents in a “secret santa” fashion. Most attention will be going to the wrapping. If your present doesn't come with a poem of four pages inside a paper mache creation that would put most Piñatas to shame, well then your secret santa might not like your very much.
I must say that the holiday has become more fun since sinterklaas stopped not only having his black pete helpers beat up naughty kids with a bunch of twigs and filling up his empty bags with naughty kids on the way back to Spain. Ever since the whole big book of naughty and nice kids has become less important the whole thing has become a whole lot less stressful for the kids.
And one more thing sinterklaas ISN`T FAT okay? That wouldn't be fair on the horse now would it? I can totally forgive coca cola giving sinterklaas a makeover, but making him fat?
So if I hear one more American complain about peoples lack of respect for a tradition well lets just say they are gonna find some socks, sleds, reindeer and calendars shoved in places darker than most winter nights right about the time they are being dropped off at the north pole.
And just for those people who complain about hypocrisy because before sinterklaas was sinterklaas he was the bishop of Myra who would go around leaving oranges for the girls who were still virgins with the 5th of December being the day he died... What? You want to celebrate a death as a childrens holiday? Now thats just crazy! And do we really want a catholic figure keeping track of and giving presents to virgins?
Posted by: Peter Ashby
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November 24, 2010 8:09 AM
Our last Xmas down under we had a cold lunch of mutton ham (Yum!) and salad and stuff then went across the road to the playing fields above the beach and played cricket with the kids. We shared our family Xmas with several friends as well. I'm sure there was some wine of various colours drunk as well but I don't remember inconsequential details like that.
Sod you Tim Minchin for making an exile from the Southern Hemisphere deeply homesick.
Posted by: wasd
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November 24, 2010 8:47 AM
In fact that sounds double wrong.
That sounds like whatever music monopoly ended up with the rights to the song sold those right for inclusion in the christmas collection CD. Probably without realizing what they were doing and probably without checking with whomever lend her beautiful voice to that recording and/or Tim Minchin. Artist should be getting royalties and they would have to be consulted if their royalties were gonna get donated right? They might not have heard about the salvation-under-certain-conditions army but I would bet they have.
This would mean the profits from this song about ancient religions and dead Palestinians press ganged into selling playstations are not actually all going to the salvation army.
I am betting somewhere in the fineprint one can find the small percentage of the profits that is actually going to the salvation army.
Posted by: dsichel
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November 24, 2010 8:59 AM
I like "Oi to the World", where Haji and Trevor spend Christmas Day beating each other half to death, until they realize that ethnicity and religion are pointless differences.
"they rappelled from the roof with the rest of the turban / then went back to the pub where they bought each other bourbon."
Oh, and I strongly recommend the gloriously hideous A SomethingAwful Christmas, two (entirely free, downloadable) albums of magnificently brain-destroying Christmas songs produced by the Forum Goons at Something Awful.
Posted by: mark.c.martin59
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November 24, 2010 9:29 AM
i think one of the best way to fix christmess carols is to change the words, that way you can even pretend to be singing along with everyone else while under your breath you are actually muttering profanities. here's one i prepared earlier:
like the farmer said to his wife,"looks like rain dear"
i knew a dasher, and a dancer
and a prancer, and a vixen
saw a comet, heard of cupid
love thunder and lightning
as far as recall
don’t know any reindeer at all
reginald the cancerous reindeer
had a very bloody nose
and if you ever saw it
you would even say it flows
all of the other reindeer
used to play the mating game
they never let poor reggie
sniff at any reindeer dams
then one groggy winter eve
farmer came to say
reginald with that cancerous site
you’re gonna be my dinner tonight
then all the reindeer loved in
and they frolicked frantically
reginald the cancerous reindeer
no genetic history
enjoy:-)
Posted by: beyondbelief007
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November 24, 2010 12:22 PM
I think no Christmas Album should be without Dar William's "The Christians and The Pagans." If you haven't heard it, hie thee to YouTube. The classic line, about improved religious relations, goes something like: "Well, at least now when Christians and Pagans get together for the Holidays, only the Pumpkin pies are burning."
Brilliant!
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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November 24, 2010 12:39 PM
"How fucked-up do you have to be to describe a sentimental Christmas song expressing heartfelt affection for family as "a sick joke"? "
You just have to be a religious/cultural supremacist. And unfortunately, they're pretty typical.
"Apparently this song was against the 'Christian ethos', so since this song is about the importance of family I have to conclude that family values aren't part of the 'Christian ethos'.the only thing that seems to matter is deference to the faith..."
Matthew 10:37.
Posted by: redrabbitslife
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November 24, 2010 1:25 PM
This is X-mas where I live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktl6ikt91h4
Bobnoxious, Police Nabbed my Dad- to the tune of Feliz Navidad. Only rockinger.
Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/YscveZgDxOm57UJqJYoUQWyz_LewUQXNdsk-#59adc
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November 24, 2010 1:29 PM
Nobody has mentioned Amos Milburns Let's Make Christmas Merry, Baby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuraNAHW3c0 or Clarence Carters
Backdoor Santa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMj4Q6EVOW0 yet?
Posted by: Sal Bro
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November 24, 2010 2:15 PM
In recent years, it's been my tradition to hook my computer up to the stereo speakers and blast SomaFM's Xmas in Frisko, a "wacky and eclectic holiday mix. Not for the easily offended." They play plenty of atheist-, LGBT-, and other hell-bound-friendly songs on there.
On the other hand, like some other ex-Xians on here, I do still have a fondness for traditional and/or bad Xmas tunes. I like Little Drummer Boy for the first 3 or 4 times; probably my favorite tune is I Wonder As I Wander. It's times like these that I wish I'd been raised in a culture where people sing songs together in places other than church; deconversion has caused me to have mixed feelings about the songs from my youth.
Posted by: bulwer
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November 24, 2010 3:21 PM
I don't get it PZ. In another recent post you criticized people who are offended by the greeting "Merry Christmas", yet here you are expressing your offence at two Christmas carols. What's the bloody difference? Why is it ok for you to be offended by one part of Christmas tradition, but not ok for me?
I'm an atheist who came to that position via Christian fundamentalism. I was seriously harmed by that bullshit, and so now Christmas is a major trigger for me. I've been known to snap at people wishing me merry Christmas, saying: "what's so merry about a fucking mass for a Christ that preached hell fire for people like me?"
Posted by: Sal Bro
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November 24, 2010 3:42 PM
bulwer, PZ's full statement was
(The suggested answer to his question was "no".)
Also, the two songs he's referring to are explicitly Christian. As he explained in his Merry Christmas post, Christmas is celebrated by many more people than just Christians--in fact, it's perfectly possible to celebrate it with no meaningful reference to Christianity at all. So he said that the phrase "Merry Christmas" didn't bother him.
On the other hand, I suspect that if someone said "Happy Jesus' Birthday!!" to him he might bristle, but that's just a guess.
Posted by: John Morales
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November 24, 2010 6:48 PM
shonny, many thanks for that reference to London's The People of the Abyss.
I'm up to chapter XII, so I've now read the Salvos episode. It is as you say.
Posted by: efrique
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November 24, 2010 6:52 PM
Matt Penfold #63:
What protects that song in the US is the same thing that protects songs by US artists in Australia:
international treaties on copyright, like the Berne convention
Posted by: efrique
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November 24, 2010 7:29 PM
Well, as much as I enjoyed that rendition, I prefer Minchin's version. Fortunately, I bought "Ready For This?" a fair while back. Might have even been last Christmas.
I liked the image on the video - it looks exactly like where I grew up. But what was with capitalizing ordinary nouns like "uncle" in the text?
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawl538Va2CMP4A3id1jv2HOr6_UVsN8QYm4
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November 24, 2010 9:21 PM
I think we got them worried. There bringing out the movie weapon now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayDw2gS7-0&feature=player_embedded
Posted by: Kel, The Privileged View From Nowhere
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November 25, 2010 2:47 AM
What Christian these days gets their values from the Bible? ;)