…and this is a 
You know who really hates Christmas?
I bet you didn't know that if you converted to Islam you'd get immunity to STDs, your debt would disappear, rapes, teen pregnancy, and abortions would never occur, the rave would be canceled, you'd stop making that silly claim that god had a son, there'd be no exploitation or promiscuity or crime, the night clubs would shut down, nobody would have sex with 9 year old girls (oh, wait a minute…), you wouldn't be a pagan anymore (duh), you'd get a house, but you wouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs in it. Amazing stuff. The Muslim world must be a quiet little paradise, kind of like Wally and Beaver's neighborhood.
Actually, this seems to be the work of a deranged lunatic, kind of like a browner, Englisher, Islamicer Fred Phelps. That doesn't stop the Daily Mail from having vapors over the Islamic threat and MPs demanding that the signs all be ripped down. Alas, this is one of the prices we pay for free speech: people get to say stupid things.
Comments
Posted by: KyBoiler
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December 23, 2010 10:43 AM
Did anyone else read the bottom of the poster this way?
Islam gives....
-Rights for man
-Woman and child
As two totally separate points? It would seem to be more accurate that way.
Posted by: Canadian
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December 23, 2010 11:01 AM
Wow, Islam has so much to offer doesn't it. I mean, immunity from STD's, that quite something.
I also didn't know that teenage pregnancies, abortions, exploitation, rapes, etc. were part of Christmas celebrations. To think that I was celebrating Christmas the wrong way all along.
I know there are Xmas Raves, though, but that's a whole other ball of wax.
Posted by: Nij
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December 23, 2010 11:08 AM
Islam: providing protection from rape since about five minutes ago now. And of course no Muslim has ever been violent, oh heck no...
Fucking idiots, the lot of them.
Posted by: lamanga2004
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December 23, 2010 11:11 AM
What the fuck is it with these religious eejits and their multiple, and inappropriate, usage of exclamation marks?
In fact, it's not just exclamation marks is it? It's every punctuation symbol available. Oh, and Caps Lock.
Posted by: Jolo5309
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December 23, 2010 11:12 AM
Ok, I have to send this to the Angry Christian in my office!
Posted by: lamanga2004
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December 23, 2010 11:15 AM
Oh one other thing. Evidently there are 20 days of Christmas in the Muslim calendar.
And that website claims it is "Representing the Muslims living in the uk".
Many of whom, of course, will be out this Friday getting wasted and laid. That's what young people do. Get the fuck over it.
Posted by: ss123
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December 23, 2010 11:15 AM
You're supposed to rape your wife on the 3rd day?!
Did not know this.
Posted by: alysonmiers
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December 23, 2010 11:24 AM
It's not pedophilia if you marry her first. And I suppose it's not really domestic violence if you make sure she covers her face whenever she leaves the house.
Posted by: hznfrst
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December 23, 2010 11:25 AM
Watch out, PZ. You've got a gang of multiculturalist regulars here who are going to accuse you of racism for daring to criticize the religion of peace!
Posted by: Erik The Viking
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December 23, 2010 11:26 AM
From the article, Mr Rumaysah makes a couple of statements that do reflect the true fundamentalist outlook: "Christmas is a lie and as Muslims it is our duty to attack it" and "We hope that our campaign will make people realise that Islam is the only way to avoid this and convert."
I think sadly that this view is actually true of any fundamentalist position that essentially boils down to "If it's not us, convert it, if it can't be converted kill/attack it". This is an ancient and historically fairly effective tactic (for some values of effective). It does however make me shake my head and wonder that such sentiments are required in this supposed age of reason.
Posted by: Capital Dan
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December 23, 2010 11:34 AM
Wait... Night clubs?!? And raves?!?
Sounds like someone scored some bad E.
Posted by: JagyrEbonwood
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December 23, 2010 11:45 AM
PZ, how dare you criticize the religion of peace, you racist!?
(Sorry, just an experiment to see what happens to trolls when they accurately predict something. I'm personally hoping for exploding craniums)
Posted by: Timberwoof
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December 23, 2010 11:48 AM
Heh heh heh. They left out homosexuality.
Don we now our gay apparel…
I wonder what it was about Islam that made Cat Stevens think he had to give up singing when he converted. (Richard Thompson sings and plays a mean guitar.)
Posted by: Kamaka
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December 23, 2010 11:52 AM
Jingle hell, but that sign is sweet.
C'mon, christers, where's your "Islam is Evil" poster?
Posted by: davem
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December 23, 2010 11:54 AM
How come they left out 'Christmas music on the radio for a f***g week already?
Now that's evil.
Posted by: A Bad Idea (♀)
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December 23, 2010 11:57 AM
I can't even fathom where they're getting some of these ideas from. Best to just step aside and watch the mud fly.
Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes
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December 23, 2010 11:59 AM
I suppose those guys wouldn't get down well in muslim Turkey. They are big on christmas.
Oh yeah, I'm one of those idiot multiculturalists who still in spite of all the teaching from people in posession of the truth(tm) refuses to fear her muslim green grocerer for the simple fact of him being a muslim *rolleyes*
Posted by: Ajxplza
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December 23, 2010 12:04 PM
You mean it wasn't Obama the Athiest Anti-colonialist Indonesian Kenyan Muslin?
Can't be. June never wore the hijab. And I don't recall Eddie Haskell ever praying while facing Mecca.
Posted by: arkestrate
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December 23, 2010 12:07 PM
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/11160
As I suspected, it's that twit Anjem Choudhary et al - of Islam4UK 'fame' - behind it all. The guy and his crew are idiots - the sort that Chris Morris could use for a Four Lions sequel. Funny thing is, I actually know a few religious cousins who'd love to give him a kicking (Choudhary, not Morris).
Posted by: Acronym Jim
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December 23, 2010 12:08 PM
True - and the rest of us get to point and laugh. It's all good.
Posted by: Seti
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December 23, 2010 12:14 PM
This was a little nothing group with about three members - until the Daily Mail started publishing their "outrages." Idiots to the right, idiots to the left...
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter
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December 23, 2010 12:14 PM
#10 Erik The Viking And, son of a gun, if this wasn't in the "Random Quotes" sidebar, as I read your post...
Posted by: realinterrobang
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December 23, 2010 12:25 PM
*sigh* You realise that Marie Antoinette was fourteen when she married Louis-Auguste, who was fifteen at the time? They didn't actually consummate the marriage until she was 21 and he was 22, though. And that was in the 1700s.
It's a canard to say that Mohammed "raped a nine-year old" even though she was married to him; it didn't happen. It's also a canard to call him a pedophile for doing it, since every politically powerful family up to modern times has had very young or very age-mismatched marriages -- for political convenience, which that marriage was -- in it. (A lot of political marriages were also completely sexless; I recall reading about one such medieval royal couple who didn't like each other much who claimed that they'd been given instructions from God to remain chaste.)
I mean, you bitch all the time about accuracy and truth and stuff like that, could you please not slaughter history in the name of making rhetorical points?
Posted by: Don1
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December 23, 2010 12:32 PM
Choudhary and the Daily Mail exist in a sort of toxic symbiosis. He has a handful of nutters around him who are regarded as pariahs by most UK muslims.
Posted by: KG
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December 23, 2010 12:46 PM
They don't mention the cuts, England's failure to win the right to host the 2018 World Cup, or the awful weather. Surely Christmas is responsible for those too?
Posted by: KG
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December 23, 2010 12:48 PM
realinterrobang@23,
Can you provide sources for what you say? I simply don't know the truth of the matter at present.
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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December 23, 2010 12:49 PM
Well, he just screwed up the scansion completely.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 12:55 PM
@KG
He's full of bullshit. It's part of the Islamic early history. Islamic works are the record for it
Aisha
Posted by: Doug Little
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December 23, 2010 1:00 PM
There's no rape in Islam because the women on the receiving end tend to wind up dead, often killed by their own family members.
Posted by: Mike Crichton
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December 23, 2010 1:09 PM
Watch out, PZ. You've got a gang of multiculturalist regulars here who are going to accuse you of racism for daring to criticize the religion of peace!
Who are dwarfed by the mob of regulars who claim "You'd never dare criticize the Muslims!". If both groups of idiots show up in the same thread, will they explode in a frenzy of mutual annihilation? "Bob", I hope so.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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December 23, 2010 1:10 PM
Wow, realinterrobang! You must be really old to have witnessed exactly when and where Mohammed and Louis-Auguste, "hid the salami," throughout his life. Kinda pervy, too. Please stay away from the windows of my house.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 1:12 PM
@31
Mohammed and Loiuse-Aguste had sex with each other!?
THE SCANDAL!
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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December 23, 2010 1:12 PM
Oh, and BTW, since you were there, can you tell us whether or not Marie Antoinette wore a merkin?
Posted by: MadScientist
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December 23, 2010 1:12 PM
Mohhamedanism eliminates rape by calling it adultery and condemning the victims to a brutal execution. Ah, Mohammed, a Pox Be Upon Him and that filthy no good Allah too.
Posted by: Duncan
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December 23, 2010 1:15 PM
That is definitely one of those daily mail articles where the best comments have the most red arrows.
As for the poster. If I were to see it I'd just quietly chuckle at it and move on.
Posted by: A. Nuran
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December 23, 2010 1:16 PM
Before we get too deeply into our Two Minute Hate the Sand Niggers let's remember that this is strictly forbidden in Islam.
1) According to Mohammed the only way a Muslim can convert a non-believer is by good example.
2) Also according to Mohammed Christians' religious observances are not to be interfered with. Even Iran which is chiroptera feces nuts on a lot of this permits alcohol at Christian communion services.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 23, 2010 1:17 PM
You're a fucking moron every single time you open your mouth about this.The problem isn't criticism of islam. It's criticism of islam as a smokescreen for regular old racism and xenophobia, which is seen in things like the BNP. Because PZ isn't doing it, and further, because he's calling the folks who want to tear down the posters idiots, he's sort of perfectly fine on this.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 1:18 PM
@36
Invalidated by Mohammad explicitly decided to convert the Arab world by the sword.
Posted by: A. Nuran
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December 23, 2010 1:21 PM
Not saying the first hasn't been honored more in the breach or that the second always happens. But our laws forbid torture, denial of rights based on race, creed or national origin, taking land without paying a fair price for it, genocide, infringing freedom of the press, aggressive warfare, imprisonment without trial and prostituting little children.
We have, and in the cases of most of these still do, all of these as a matter of stated policy. Yes, that includes selling hundreds of little boys to be butt-raped by backwards Afghan knuckle-draggers.
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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December 23, 2010 1:23 PM
"Watch out, PZ. You've got a gang of multiculturalist regulars here who are going to accuse you of racism for daring to criticize the religion of peace!"
It's either them or the people who whine about not criticizing Islam or other non-Christian religions enough. Both of them tend to be full of themselves.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 1:26 PM
Your book says that if a person has a deconverted or atheist friend they should be the first one to put them to death.
And ignoring that even when it was followed the prohibition against disrupting or converting other religions only applied to bible believers. Atheists and pagans are still fair game.
What else is Jihad or was the taking of Mecca if not an aggressive war?
As long as they're Muslim...oh and of course "Gender" and "sexuality" are not on that list.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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December 23, 2010 1:26 PM
BTW, most everyone here, Al B. Idiotic excluded, call out everyone for all crimes against humanity, not just muslims. The points of this post are, A.) that athiests aren't really waging a war against xmas, B.) if athiests were waging a war, it certainly wouldn't be as nasty as the that of another religion, and C.) it's pretty rich for one religion to point the finger at another religion when they're equally guilty of causing great suffering in this world.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 23, 2010 1:27 PM
Ing, I think you completely misread his post. I'm pretty sure A. Nuran is an American trying to make a point about what we forbid, and what actually happens.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 1:28 PM
@ A. Nuran
Your book as as much nasty orders and rules in it as the Christians. Fortunately, many Muslims tend to be as crappy about following the book as the christians are, which makes them good people for it.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 1:30 PM
@43
Ah. It still doesn't change the fact that his book DOES have laws to be nasty in some instances.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 23, 2010 1:33 PM
Minor correction to myself:
Either that or he's the islamic equivalent of the liberal christians who talk about what a nice person Jesus was.
I mean, only worshippers of YHWH get a pass on being allowed to exist, according to the Qu'ran, and even then aren't permitted to proselytize. I recognize they've granted partial exceptions, but those seem to be honored even less than the People of the Book clause, so to say islam forbids discrimination based on creed...
Posted by: uppity cracka
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December 23, 2010 1:37 PM
Raves? I don't know, that seems kind of arbitrary. But they gave it the middle ornament like it was the first thing they thought of.
"You know what I reeeeally hate about Christmas? It's that god damn shitty-ass trance music from the 90s. Remember that crap? Let's make a poster!"
Posted by: eszettg
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December 23, 2010 1:41 PM
Funny they would decry promiscuity, because that's the only reason the Muslims want to be Muslims. They're the only ones Allah's inviting to his crazy forever-open sky-orgy, managed by his main bouncer and right-hand pimp Mohammy.
Yeah, I'll take fervent Christians over fervent Muslims as neighbors any day of the week. Of course, not buying into either of the crazy myths would be the best plus of them all - but then we'd be in Heaven by now wouldn't we? Funny how that works.
Posted by: mholmesiv
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December 23, 2010 1:43 PM
Actually, at least one point is valid. Islam does not allow debt. They still subscribe to the ban on usury that the catholics abandoned when the pope realized it could make the vatican bank lots of money.
This makes it difficult for them to buy houses and such. They do things like layaway clubs, where a group gets together and pays in each month for X years, and it buys you a house.
Posted by: webriggs
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December 23, 2010 1:50 PM
Well, that's likely to win a lot of converts. Nothing quite like the stench of self-righteousness in the morning, especially when churned up by a bunch of delusional 12th century goatherds (nothing against goats) who protest the even more ancient delusional goatherds' world view. I'm so sick of religion and religious fuckwits that I just want to puke.
But I don't think they should take the signs down. They should be left up, and perhaps annotated, or enhanced, or assisted by other signs, to point out just how fucking moronic these turdblossoms are. I think Christianity is a sick joke, but I don't see how Christmas leads to teenage pregnancy. Nor do I see how anything leads to honour killing that involves snuffing out your wife/sister/cousin. But then we all know, "to get good people to to evil things requires religion".
Solstice has passed, the days are getting longer, the "reason for the season" (as these dickheads like to say) has passed. Get over it.
Posted by: Balstrome
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December 23, 2010 1:51 PM
The sad thing is that anyone and that includes the hard core Catholics, looking at this poster, will not have the feelings the makers of it wanted. Mostly I think they will be appalled at the child like abilities of the group responsible.
Surely, one could have expected something more, cleverer, harder hitting, intellectually challenging, or even better use of colours, than this?
Posted by: sqlrob
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December 23, 2010 2:07 PM
Where do you live? It's been close to a month here.
Posted by: viggen
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December 23, 2010 2:08 PM
You mean if we convert to Islam, we would live in a world where people don't punish their maids by driving hot needles and nails into their hands and heads, and don't stand women up in public squares to throw stones at them until they're dead.
Oh, wait, these are both things the muslim world does _now_. Sorry, not a chance I'll convert any time soon.
Posted by: rippingrich
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December 23, 2010 2:13 PM
I understand the price we pay for free speech. But I also think we need to increase the cost of it. If people are going to be making extraordinary claims directed at effecting masses of people, it should be their responsibility to provide the evidence.
We should flock to them and demand to see the evidence for such claims. We should scream into the public sphere and get the public in demanding to see the evidence.
If they can't they should have to pay a price. Maybe cut out there tongues. okay I'm kidding, but they should be held accountable.
Posted by: Arancaytar
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December 23, 2010 2:31 PM
It's annoying, but seeing Christian fundies and Muslim fundies go up against each other brings a smile to my face. They just make theism in general even more ridiculous and generate their own bad publicity.
Posted by: KG
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December 23, 2010 2:38 PM
You don't? I'd have thought that was the poster's strongest point!
Ing, GoD@28,
Thanks.
Posted by: GenghisFaun
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December 23, 2010 2:50 PM
sqlrob @ #52,
No kidding - I was thinking the same thing! I'm just glad that it doesn't start up until Thanksgiving here in Nashville. When I lived in the Hampton Roads region, I stumbled on a station that (I kid you not) was playing xmas music on #&$%ing Halloween morning (prolly to counter the ebil spirits).
Posted by: Franklin Percival
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December 23, 2010 2:58 PM
GenghisFaun #42
B.) if athiests were waging a war, it certainly wouldn't be as nasty as the that of another religion
I'm not entirely convinced that atheism is a religion. May just be my view, of course.
Posted by: Greta Christina
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December 23, 2010 2:58 PM
Nightclubs?
(head scratch)
I'm still stuck on this one. It just seems so random, shoehorned in there right before pedophilia and domestic violence. Like a list of plagues of Egypt that included locusts, a rain of frogs, nice peanut butter sandwiches for everyone, rivers turning to blood... ???
If these people think nightclubs are an evil on a par with pedophilia and domestic violence, they clearly need to get out more.
Posted by:
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December 23, 2010 3:02 PM
"Rights for man, woman, and child"?
This is JOKE, right?
Anyone?
Posted by: Cylux
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December 23, 2010 3:10 PM
@60
Given that it's a poster from Anjem Choudhary, whose organisation of a few geezers seemingly exists only to cause the Daily Mail and other assorted tabloids to go into a frothing rage about Muslims, there is a good chance it is a joke.
Although the poster isn't the joke, the fact the media even bothers to report on them at all is the real joke.
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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December 23, 2010 3:25 PM
Human Rights in Islam = Sharia.
and just to make it quite clear:
Posted by: Martin
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December 23, 2010 3:25 PM
@1
I think British English style is different from American English style with regard to a list like that. American style places a comma before the "and," but British style doesn't. These are equivalent:
apples, oranges, and lemons
apples, oranges and lemons
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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December 23, 2010 3:32 PM
Article 1. Al B. Jerkwad is a moron.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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December 23, 2010 3:53 PM
I better get some fucking booze 'n' drugs for Christmas.
Posted by: Franklin Percival
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December 23, 2010 3:58 PM
ARIDS #64
You have earlier claimed to be a physicist, IIRC. May I now ask what qualification you have to pronounce ABQ to be a moron, or are you just levelling a generic insult?
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 4:07 PM
Atheism==religion as bald==hair color.
@ Franklin
No ABQ has a long history of being an abject fucking moron. He has trouble grasping the concept of 'unknown authorship' and presumably 'breathing.'
Posted by: Amphiox, OM
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December 23, 2010 4:10 PM
re#66;
His qualification is that he is a human being of normal intelligence.
The question of whether his pronouncement is accurate is of course a different matter.
Posted by: Robert H
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December 23, 2010 4:12 PM
Once more we have an eloquent demonstration of the difference between what people want to believe their religion espouses and how it actually works in the real world. Cognitive dissonance? Hypocrisy? Delusional thinking? So many choices, so little time.
Posted by: Franklin Percival
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December 23, 2010 4:13 PM
So many cats, so few recipes.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
Annoying ABQ does bring sorta a valid point. For the claims of Islam providing human rights we have Shari'a a fundamentally Islamic law system that is horrendously unjust.
Part of the difference I think is that the crimes Americans committed involved BREAKING our laws. The crimes I listed Fundamentalist Muslims making involved them FOLLOWING their laws.
Posted by: Yubal
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December 23, 2010 4:17 PM
The war on christmas just got enriched by another battlefield.
Now its kook vs. kook. No way anyone is going to loose there.
BTW: Has anyone seen the lunar eclipse on solstice? Was much better than Ramadan, Hanukkah and Easter together!
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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December 23, 2010 4:17 PM
If you've ready any of ABQ's post where he "defines" things, you'll know he's a moron.
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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December 23, 2010 4:20 PM
WoC update: Christmas strikes back at Atheist state:
Giant Christmas tree stokes tensions on Korean peninsula
@ Franklin
arids is just doing what he knows best - shooting the messenger
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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December 23, 2010 4:21 PM
Any semi-intelligent person, and ARIDS is well above, considers ABQ a moron. What's your problem? You have a man-crush on that abject idjit islamophobic loser?Posted by: Franklin Percival
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December 23, 2010 4:25 PM
I would love it if we could all live without a warrior caste, but I don't believe we are near to that stage yet.
Why are people unprepared to accept that we need to do less than reproduce ourselves on a one-to-one basis? I appreciate that this will require a different view of economics, but I suspect we are all quite bright, aren't we?
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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December 23, 2010 4:28 PM
ABQ doesn't see that he's making a point for the side of secular people. Being force not light a tree is tyranny just as much as being forced to say "Marry Christmas" and celebrate Jesus is tyranny.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 4:30 PM
He was before my time but is Franklin just repeating "The best of Piltdownman?"
Posted by: Stonyground
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December 23, 2010 4:37 PM
Surely Islamists trying to lecture us about domestic violence takes the cake. The Koran specifically prescribes wife beating for spouses who don't know their place and won't do as they are told.
The other obvious flaw in the message of the poster is the fact that those who produced it seem to prefer to live in an evil dysfuncional westernised society rather than an Islamic paradise.
Posted by: Franklin Percival
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December 23, 2010 4:39 PM
Nerd of Redhead #75
Yes yes yes and yes. I have spent some time here, as you must be aware, countacoz you've sauntered round here longer. What irritates me is that the other buggar's view is substantially dismissed by 'us'.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 4:42 PM
@Franklin
When ABQ gets a mind I'll be glad to let him tell us what's on it.
Posted by: Nick
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December 23, 2010 4:48 PM
93 nations in the world still legally punish homosexuality. In 7 of these - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania - gays and lesbians are punished with the death penalty.
All of the above have powerful Islamic influence on the governments of the country.
Uganda considered introducing the death penalty, under the influence of US Christian missionaries.
No matter how often Christians or Muslims bang on about their religion being a religion of peace and love, as long as people are murdering in the name of their God, and their God does nothing to stop them, then their God either condones the killing, or doesn't care. There is no other explanation that allows for the existence of an 'almighty God'.
Posted by: Martin
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December 23, 2010 4:49 PM
K @26,
I believe realinterrobang in post #23 is referring to scholarship that disputes the assertion that Aisha was married at age 6 and deflowered at 9. The reference to Aisha's age can, apparently, be traced to a single historian whose work has been cited and re-cited. Here's one counter-argument:
-- from a longer discussion at http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/315803.
Fourteen is still awfully young to marry, but not out of line with other cultures of that place and time.
None of this has anything to do with the validity of Islam as a religion, or of the usefulness of religion in general as a way of dealing with the world. Islam, like all religions, provides plenty of arguments against itself in its scriptures and through the easily falsifiable (and utterly unsupportable) assertions of its proponents. There's simply no need to drag out appeals to "eww, gross," especially one which may well be untrue.
Posted by: evilDoug
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December 23, 2010 4:49 PM
"American style places a comma before the "and," but British style doesn't."
You mean USAsians use the Oxford comma and Brits don't?
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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December 23, 2010 4:51 PM
Allies in the War/Jihad on Christmas:
*The godless
*Muslims
*Jehovah's Witlesses
*Atheist commies with nukes
Posted by: Martin
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December 23, 2010 4:51 PM
@84
;)
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 4:53 PM
So Franklin this answer that question?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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December 23, 2010 4:54 PM
Why, considering the lack of cogency, utter lack of scientific evidence, and overt trolling he is doing?. A stopped watch is right twice a day. It doesn't mean you use one to tell time. No, you do what the Redhead does, and put it on my desk to replace the battery. In ABQ's case, that corresponds go a working brain transplant.Posted by: consciousness razor
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December 23, 2010 4:57 PM
TO WAAARRRRRR!!!!!1!!!
Uh, I mean, JIHHAAAAAAAADDDD!!!!!1!!!
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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December 23, 2010 4:57 PM
See, ABQ is one of those idiots who think that Atheist and Muslims are allies when their ideologies are completely incompatible.
(BTW, Indonesia, a largely Muslim country, celebrates Christmas. China does too, another non-Christian nation. Not that facts matter to an idiot like ABQ seeing as I've already pointed out that being forced not to celebrate is just as bad as being forced to celebrate.)
Posted by: Joffan
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December 23, 2010 4:59 PM
"RIGHTS FOR MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD."
I read this as:
- Rights for man
- Rights for woman (a different set of rights)
- Rights for child (another diferent set)
... not the same rights for all.
-----------
Oh the evils of Christmas are truly plain to see
Twelve hours of shopping
Eleven light bulbs blown out
Ten kilo turkeys
Nine cousins calling
Eight useless presents
Seven days hungover
Six months of diet
Five - songs - all - month
Four arguments
Three smashed plates
Two broken hearts
And a loose-needled chris-a-mus tree.
Posted by: consciousness razor
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December 23, 2010 5:00 PM
Sorry, folks.
*looks around, punches ABQ in the groin*
Wrong thread.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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December 23, 2010 5:01 PM
Franklin Percival,
Since when is a physicist not qualified to judge a moron to be a moron? Al B. Jerkwad is
1)a God botherer
2)a climate denialist
3)insipid
4)irrelevant
5)a troll
6)a libertarian.
He is also, based on the general low level of intelligence exhibited in his commentary, a moron.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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December 23, 2010 5:03 PM
Also note that Atheist Japan FUCKING LOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES Christmas.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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December 23, 2010 5:08 PM
ABQ is paranoid about living under Sharia law, but in an earlier thread, when I repeatedly asked him to give me a reasonable scenario on how he could end up living under Sharia law, nothing but evasion and silence. So I don't take his delusions of paranoia seriously. Moron all around.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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December 23, 2010 5:09 PM
Why doesn't the intestines rush through his body and throttle Al Beef Jerky's brain out of embarrassment?
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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December 23, 2010 5:17 PM
Since ABQ thinks that being force to celebrate Christmas and acknowledge it's Christian background is not tyrnny, then he actually gets along with that troll on the "Islam hates women" thread who thinks forcing Muslims into Sharia isn't trynny.
ABQ's ideologies are no different from those Muslim fanatics he so fears.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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December 23, 2010 5:34 PM
Gyeong Hwa Pak@97,
I guess when you are afraid to look in the mirror, anyone who looks like you is scary.
Posted by: Hurin, Nattering Nabob of Negativism.
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December 23, 2010 5:58 PM
@ A.Nuran
Pathetic strawman is pathetic. Next.
Then why am I supposed to care? Are these actually enforced? Or just the laws about stoning women for being raped?
Gee, that's great. Now tell me why I am supposed to care that not every belief or law in Islam is insane. All these "laws" are self evident; if you need a prophet to tell you not to commit genocide, or prostitute children, then you are defective.
What about the above rules has any connection to belief an allah, or authenticity of muhammad?
Furthermore, how does Islamic law address the practice of stoning? One might be tempted to group this in with "torture", however I hear that the enlightened islamic government of Iran (the same one that even allows alcohol for communion) uses it as a penalty for adultery.
Posted by: daylightisabadthing
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December 23, 2010 6:01 PM
I work in a night club in a muslim country and darned if there isn't a fight going on outside, right now between some drunk local guys over some girl.
Posted by: Mithy, Imperial Britannic Overlord & Tea Drinker
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December 23, 2010 6:22 PM
It's criticism of islam as a smokescreen for regular old racism and xenophobia, which is seen in things like the BNP.
Fuck the BNP. Fuck Mohammed as well. They're both sides of the same coin. Clerical and political fascism.
And what a surprise, Rutee turns up *again* in a Muslim-related thread to whine about criticism of Islam being racist and xenophobic. You make quite a habit of this don't you? Its rather revealing y'know.
Posted by: Mithy, Imperial Britannic Overlord & Tea Drinker
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December 23, 2010 6:25 PM
I work in a night club in a muslim country and darned if there isn't a fight going on outside, right now between some drunk local guys over some girl.
Ah, followers of the prophet Shiraz ibn Zinfandel. Now that's my kind of prophet.
Posted by: wmdkitty#83021
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December 23, 2010 7:15 PM
Uh... do I really need to point out that Islam (along with Christianity) actually PROMOTES domestic violence, with their insistence that women submit to the "authority" of men? They also promotes rape, as men aren't expected to control themselves, and it is instead the woman's fault for enticing him.
In short, patriarchal monotheism is bad for society, women in particular.
Posted by: Erik The Viking
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December 23, 2010 7:27 PM
@Nerd #75
I think I might be a little bit Islamophobic in that I was 15 minutes shy of dying in the London 7/7 bombings. I'm also Christianophobic, Hinduophobic, Maoistophobic and generally Anythingophobic when it comes to people who want me dead or think I'm an abomination.
In general individual people's actions should speak for themselves, but sometimes large groups should shoulder some blame for those who follow them.
I'm an atheist, left-handed ginger. Who knows when it's my turn to have my back against the wall.
I don't think it's wrong that people feel nervous when faced with perceived threats. Fortunately rationality is at hand, but don't dismiss the lizard brain we all have to deal with in moments of terror.
-E
Posted by: Nick
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December 23, 2010 7:43 PM
Why is it that whenever I read this sort of statement from a religious nut, I hear the voice of Kenny Everett's 'Angry of Mayfair'?
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 23, 2010 7:51 PM
I do make a habit of it. Your response to me reveals to me you have a habit of not reading.Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 23, 2010 7:59 PM
Dammit, walked right into that.
Quite specifically, I focus on criticism that dehumanizes, particularly if I think the critic is doing so intentionally. Say whatever the hell you want of the belief system, and of the jackasses within it; Off the top of my head, the wanker who put up this poster, or Al Qaeda, or the jackasses who run Iran. If you only have bad things to say about the specific people who are assholes, or the idiotic belief system, that's fine. A lot of posters on this site have demonstrated a lack of respect for Islam and, and this is key, a corresponding lack of respect for their own culture's religious idiocy. A lot of folks, however, and this is more general, will talk about, for instance, how barbaric pakkies are, or whatever, based on their religious tradition. Really, guy who's supposed to forgive rape by selling his daughter for 6 shekels? You want to talk about barbaric religious tradition?* But yes, at the end of the day, I still make this a habit. I just don't make one of the precise thing you think I make it of.
If you think islam is a problem, and legitimately have 0 problems with people who don't share a skin tone, you'll have no lasting problem with me. If you're cognizant enough of their problems to know that you need to make that clear, we won't even have an initial problem. But then, you're certainly not cognizant, are you?
Frankly, I'm surprised you think this is all I do on this site, considering the sheer volume of feminist comments I make.
Posted by: Tim Harris
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December 23, 2010 8:01 PM
I think that poster is one of the funniest things I've seen for a long time. It brings out the near-pitiful artistic and intellectual talents of its Muslim creators AND it gets up the noses of various infantile Christians as well as the collective nose of the Daily Mail. What is not to like?
Posted by: Erik The Viking
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December 23, 2010 8:24 PM
@Rutee #108
I'm not going to defend who you were originally quoting (unsure due to the lack of information in the block quote, but I'm guessing it's hzzntfrstz or whatever), but I'm pretty sure you realise that slamming on Islam isn't totally a racial thing. Here in the UK you get everything from pasty white blue eye'd Albanians to swarthy Arabic types, to dark Pakistanis, to oriental lookin' Indonesians who are all Muslims. None of them deserve a second look unless they spout unscientific batshit insane lunacy and want to impose it on others.
You're probably right for calling out your quoted target as a racist bigot, but please understand there are large groups of people who don't instantly identify Islam with 'towel-heads'. I hope, at least.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, A little FUCKING ray of sunshine
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December 23, 2010 8:49 PM
By all means, ridicule religious stupidity, whether the flavor be Xtian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or Scientologist. Do not, however, use that ridicule to tar all practitioners of a particular religion as immoral, sexist, racist, stupid or inferior. Beliefs matter, but I see no reason to denigrate one evidence-free belief more than any other. The way to avoid stereotyping is to be specific in what we condemn as well as what we praise.
I have great admiration for the Muslim rationalists who do have the courage to stand up to the bullies in their religion. They do so at great personal risk. Religion poisons everything. It is pointless to debate which religion is sarin and which is cyanide.
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 23, 2010 9:14 PM
I'm aware. That's probably a large part of why the BNP is overall not very large! I specifically said I was targetting individual attempts that seemed unintentionally or intentionally racist, after all, not all criticisms of islam. I can't imagine the compartmentalization that would require. *Shudders*Posted by: Erik The Viking
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December 23, 2010 9:15 PM
@a_ray_in_dilbert_space,
I totally agree with universal denigration of all evidence-free belief. I also agree with the sentiment that "religion poisons everything". Admiration for those who work outside of their social bounds for the sake of rationalism is also to be appreciated. Unfortunately, stereotyping is an animal trait that has thus far seen us through to the present day and is a hard shackle to throw off. The very fact that people must do this "at great personal risk" shows me that we have a long way to go.
As for sarin or cyanide, well, do you take the red pill or the blue pill? ;)
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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December 23, 2010 9:27 PM
There are legitiment criticism of Islam. But many people use criticism of Islam as a way to attack people of middle eastern decent and their culture. That's the xenophobic part. Even here in the US where the majority of middle eastern people are Christians, conservatives will use Islam to attack their culture.
Posted by: Erik The Viking
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December 23, 2010 9:29 PM
@Rutee #112
Sorry, I just get a tad het up when people conflate race and religion and I was probably just ranting ;) I understand entirely what you mean about compartmentalisation. I currently live in the midlands of the UK. I've never seen so much socially acceptable bigotry from otherwise lovely people in my life.
Posted by: Marella
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December 23, 2010 9:31 PM
Only twelve hours? You're doing well, more like twelve days I'd have said, on and off. Twelve hours of cooking though, easily.
Great rhyme anyway.
On topic, you have to admit xmas does have something to do with the claim that god has a son ;-)
Merry Xmas all.
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD
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December 23, 2010 10:42 PM
Greta Christina, one of the failed, but only just, central London bomb attempts in 2007 involved two cars filled with all kinds of nasties, gas cylinders, petrol containers and bunches of nails. One of which was parked near the entrance to Tigers night club and the other a bit further away timed to go off 15 minutes after the first one, i.e. when survivors and rescue personnel would have been on the street in numbers. I can't remember now whether it was foiled because it was spotted in time because of suspicious behaviour or because the bombers messed up. British jihadists consider nightclubs a sign of Western decadence and thus a legitimate target for attack, so I can see why those who support them would include them on this poster.
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter
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December 23, 2010 10:47 PM
#84 Martin
Last year, Saudi Arabia tried to raise the minimum age of marriage (it currently has none) and one of the chief arguments against the proposed legislation was that Mohammad married Aisha when she was 9 (and he was 52). He became engaged to her when she was 6, and tradition is that the marriage was not consummated until she was 13 or 14.I suspect the issue was that changing the law would have been a slap in the face on Mohammad, implying that he was in the wrong for marrying a girl so young.
So, it is not just the "eww, gross" factor. It is that religions will perpetuate a wrong because they are unable to change. The only "truth" they have comes from ancient traditions and changing those traditions will, they fear, destroy their religion. (Same is true for many sects of Xtianity & Judaism.)
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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December 23, 2010 10:50 PM
#91 Deceptive half-truth:
ah, there's 20 million Christians in Indonesia, but how does the Muslim majority feel about Christmas?ohhhhh .. poor lil pussycats
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD
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December 23, 2010 11:38 PM
Erik, I live a bit further south than you in Bristol and see exactly the same thing. E.G. the majority of the people in the complex I live in are nice people in most ways. But Muslim to them means anyone who appears Arabic or from the sub continent, when they are almost guaranteed to be called a Paki, though not when I am around now, and it is rarely uttered in a positive way.
Hence I can well see Rutee's point, re using the Muslim label as a dog whistle xenophobic catch all and not as a religious label, whatever I myself might think of Islam or any religion come to that. After all, I can well imagine that AL Be Thick As Shit would probably come in his pants at the thought of having the state allow him to go all xian jihadist and mediaeval on us ilk. For we all know that the only reason that so many of the xian crazies don't any more, is because Western society no longer allows it, however much they wish it weren't so.
Posted by: timrowledge, Ersatz Haderach
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December 23, 2010 11:48 PM
Ah, the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" idiocy. Just sort of inverted or everted or something.Anyway, it was a typo in the original; it should be "the enema of my enemy is my friend"
Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death
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December 24, 2010 12:19 AM
Wtimrowledge
Congratulations. You sir have won one (1) shiny internets*
PS: you also owe me one keyboard.
* Prizes must be taken as stated and cannot be deferred. There will be no cash alternatives. Players must comply with all rules to be eligible for the prizes. No responsibility is accepted for ineligible entries or entries made fraudulently.
Posted by: ATrampAbroad
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December 24, 2010 1:26 AM
From the Website:
"Islam is the universal path for all, Muslims and non-Muslims."
Posted by: John Phillips, FCD
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December 24, 2010 2:40 AM
timrowlede, well there is no denying that AL Be Thick As Shit is definitely what you would expect as a result of an enema, whether yours or your enemy's.
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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December 24, 2010 3:03 AM
ah, with regard to:
..am I to presume that youse believe that Nazism, Catholicism, Shinto & Islam are completely compatible ideologies .. I mean to say they WERE after all ALLIES in WW2, hmmm .. utter fuckwits?
cue crickets chirping ..
Posted by: SphericalBunny
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December 24, 2010 3:40 AM
Meh, fuss over nothing. Leave the posters up + add stick figures labelled 'Muhammad'. They'll be torn down by the same people who put them up...
Posted by: k4b6lane
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December 24, 2010 5:30 AM
Off topic but had to share anyway: http://www.npr.org/2010/12/24/132260025/did-shrooms-send-santa-and-his-reindeer-flying?ft=1&f=1001
check out this bit O Xmas Cheer or would it be Veer?
Un yes the Muslim Poster is just way too funny!
Posted by: co
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December 24, 2010 10:44 AM
Why would you presume that, Al?
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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December 24, 2010 11:59 AM
Al Beef Jerky being sarcastic.
Al Beef Jerky being serious.
Which is the bigger joke?
Posted by: Markita Lynda: Healthcare is a damn right
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December 24, 2010 2:18 PM
Children in the Christian world were betrothed when very young: nine, four, three: because the political alliance cemented by their betrothal woul d last even if they died before growing up to marriage age.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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December 24, 2010 2:56 PM
Fuck you. Cue your own damn crickets.
Oh, and this is an ellipsis: …
If you can't figure out how to use HTML (…), then just type three (3) sequential periods (that's one (1) more than two (2, i.e. 2+1=3), and one (1) less than four (4, i.e. 4-1=3)), like this: ...
The Arabs taught you to use numbers; I pray to Allah they teach you to punctuate and spell.
Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa)
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December 24, 2010 3:02 PM
I see ABQ didn't get the part about acting exactly like the people he hates.
Posted by: Janine, The Little Top Of Venom, OM
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December 24, 2010 3:05 PM
Now Brownian, there is no need for that. I want Al Beef Jerky to be captured by Arabs.
Posted by: Al B. Quirky
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December 24, 2010 4:35 PM
@Brownian
I suppose you also believe that the swarthy, shifty sons of Ishmael invented the number 0 and built the Taj Mahal?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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December 24, 2010 4:45 PM
Ah, and if he gets kidnapped to a country with Sharia law, he will finally achieve Nirvana. Except anyone smarter than ABQ would drop him out of the plane/ship over the ocean. We would feel the ripples in the average IQ if that happened, as it scootches upwards.Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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December 24, 2010 5:06 PM
Of course not; the Taj Mahal is as fictional as anthropogenic global warming, souls in indigenous people, and abortions that save mothers' lives.
Everyone knows the number 0 was invented by Jesus to mark the year of his birth and thus make possible a copyright date for his later invention of Received Pronunciation.
Why? Did you learn something different in one of those PC-dominated, feminist-harbouring 'liberal' schools?
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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December 24, 2010 5:22 PM
As a Brit, the part of this story that bothers me is not the idiot who believes that the universal adoption of islam will somehow create a utopian, STD free society. It is the other idiots, some of them in power, who will instantly try to spin this into 'proof' of 'teh terrible muslim conspiracy', hell bent on forced conversions for all and ruining the fashion industry by limiting design options to Burkhas were black is always the new black...
The proper response to this poster? Point and laugh at the prat and his delusions. This kind of thing only warrents serious attention if the author or any of his co-religionists respond to such derision with violence or threats of violence. Until that time, it is just a case of one more moron making poor use of his freedom of speech. Stupid and/or hateful speech shoud not be censored, but rather countered with more intelligent and enlightened speech.
Al B. Quirky @ 86;
Please tell me you are being facetious. Just because certain groups of people do not buy into the christmas mythology in no way makes them 'allies' in some ludicrously melodramatic 'war' on christmas.
Firstly, unlike the other groups you mention in your fantasy anti-christmas legion of doom, atheism is not a unitary movement. There is no atheist vatican, no central authority of the godless capable of issuing any edict to all atheists, or even a small proportion of atheists, still less forging an evil alliance with muslim extremists and eighties-action-movie-era world-domination obsessed commie badguys from the depths of their secret volcano lair...
Atheism is simply a non-belief in gods. That is it. We don't all have encoder rings, moonbases or sharks with frikkin' laser beams on their heads. I am sorry to be the one to disabuse you, but some one has to do it.
As for atheists and muslims as 'allies'? Bearing in mind that islam is not noted for its tolerance of atheism* this is nothing more than a paranoid conspiracy theory - the kind of fevered, persecution-complex fuelled fantasy that one might expect from the religious Right.
It is scarcely more beliveable that atheists would somehow ally with JWs. Remember, we don't believe in god. We are hardly going to get on with the brigade who think they are the elect of a deity that we say is, on the evidence, no more real than Daffy Duck.
As for these scary, nuke-touting commie megalomaniacs you seem to be so worried about, why would you imagine that they would be interested in destroying christmas? Surely they have better supervillain plans to occupy their time than taking down a yuletide festival that the christians ripped off from the pagans?
Also, why would they ally with atheists? They do not believe in god, this is true, but this is like saying that two groups of people who do not believe in vampires must automatically be allies. It is utterly ridiculous; the only commonality between the two groups is a non-belief in unevidenced deities.
Hardline communists tend to replace god with a concept of the 'worker's utopia' that is practically deified in its own right, with the politburo/high ranked Party members as the de facto priesthood. This is not an observed characteristic of most atheists, who may come from the political left, centre or right and, as I have noted above, have no universally shared characteristic other than their non-belief in god.
In any case, why do you think that all these groups would go to such lengths to seek the destruction of christmas? Has it even occurrd to you that, to most non-christians of all stripes, christmas is not something to be attacked as a devilsh plot to destroy christian values and thus, supposedly, the 'basis of western civilization'**? Rather it is a quaint little midwinter festival. Nothing more than an excuse to spend time with family and eat (and perhaps drink) a little bit more than one should. Not everyone fetishizes empty ritual like theists are wont to do, you know.
* There is no infidel like a godless infidel, after all. Islam has historically shown far more acceptence of other so-called 'people of the book' then it has of non-Abrahamic religions and those who eschew faith altogether. The fanatical islamic fringe who dream of the unchallenged rise of dar al islam may be prepared to tolerate members of other Abramhic faiths as (admittedly oppressed and disenfranchised) protected minorities. We godless-abominations-in-teh-eyes-of-allah, on the other hand, are dar al harb incarnate - fit only for extermination in the eyes of hard core Whabists. An alliance on these terms would seem... shall we say a little short sighted on the part of the atheists, wouldn't you agree?
** How these two things are linked in the minds of some christians escapes me. Modern western countries are, for the most part, integrated, secular societies of which christianity is only one religion among citizens of many faiths and none. The earlier, genuinely christian-dominated history of Europe, America and the other nations today identified as 'western' is, in large part, a tale of oppression, ignorance, war, torture and death on an obscene scale given the technological limitations of the time. This is hardly something to trumpet, and to claim that it is the basis of modern western civilization is laughable. The modern western world only came about after the Enlightement began to dismantle the unfettered power of religion. Modern western society exists in spite of religion, not because of it.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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December 24, 2010 5:29 PM
Brownian, OM @ 136;
pedant/
Er, this one is fictional. There is no reason to believe that anyone has a soul, because there is no evidence that a supernatural 'soul' (as in an essence that exists seperate from one's body, contains one's character and intellect, and will somehow survive one's death) exists at all. Perhaps a better way of phrasing it would be;
Of course not; the Taj Mahal is as fictional as anthropogenic global warming, the humanity of indigenous people, and abortions that save mothers' lives.
/pedant
Posted by: Simulation of Sapience
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December 24, 2010 7:12 PM
Rather than debate about whose conception of Islam is faulty, how about we let Cracked.com be the voice of reason?
Cracked?! Being enlightened instead of taking potshots at easy targets?! It's a Christmas Miracle!
http://www.cracked.com/article_18911_5-ridiculous-things-you-probably-believe-about-islam.html
Posted by: StevoR
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December 25, 2010 3:20 AM
Posted by: webriggs | December 23, 2010 1:50 PM
Solstice has passed, the days are getting longer, the "reason for the season" (as these dickheads like to say) has passed. Get over it.
Wait .. what?!
The Earth's axial tilt has shifted from 23 & 1/2 degrees to zero degrees!? ;-)
Wishing y'all a Happy Sol Invictus everyone, whatever and whether you celebrate. :-)
Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
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December 25, 2010 4:01 AM
@139:
Cracked made the inverse error of most bigots.
Most bigots see the worst offered by the belief system, and from there inferred that all muslims were like that. Cracked looked at the best from the majority, and inferred the belief system was like that. I'm sorry to say that, much as I might hope there's an abrahamic religion that doesn't hate women, that makes it no more true then the belief of those religions that God is true. For instance, 'islam hates women' is, inasmuch as an inanimate object can be anthropomorphized like that, true.
The Hijab is only a tiny part of Islam, the belief system, and it's proscription for the detestation of women. Did you know: Travel to mecca for the pilgrimage still requires the signing off of an adult male? I remember watching a neurologist professor make excuses for this batshit fucking insane nonsense of a 13 year old cousin having more authority than her in the eyes of the Saudi government. The allowances for polygamy don't help, as do the numerous bits of bullshit called for throughout the qu'ran (For instance, men and women are equal, in that both serve Allah, but the men sort of get the awesome part of that equality).
It's true that some primarily muslim countries have moved beyond this bullshit! But it's not because of Islam, it's in spite of it. It's like saying "Christianity promotes scientific advances, because the United States developed (develops? Not sure on the current situation) so many scientific advances, and the US is a majority christian nation." As to support of science, it only sets the standard of "Christians". Not a high bar to an atheist.
I'm glad Cracked wrote the article and all, because I'd rather have similar apologetics written for them to what the Christians get over blind Othering, but adults are talking, so put it away.
Posted by: drbunsen
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December 26, 2010 3:29 AM
Yeah! And let's rectify that situation forthwith.
Posted by: GravityIsJustATheory
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December 26, 2010 5:09 AM
Posted by: Greta Christina Author Profile Page | December 23, 2010 2:58 PM
(head scratch)
I'm still stuck on this one. It just seems so random, shoehorned in there right before pedophilia and domestic violence. Like a list of plagues of Egypt that included locusts, a rain of frogs, nice peanut butter sandwiches for everyone, rivers turning to blood... ???
If these people think nightclubs are an evil on a par with pedophilia and domestic violence, they clearly need to get out more.
But nightclubs are dens of drunken debauchery, where men and women dance to unholy and often highly sexualized music, and drink, and try to seduce each other, often while wearing very little. If you can't see the similarity between that and paedophilia/domestic violence - then congratulations: you don't think in terms of ancient religious morality.
Posted by: pelamun
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December 26, 2010 1:57 PM
Sorry to come in so late on this, but regarding @90,118 about Indonesia celebrating Christmas.
First thing you have to realize is that Indonesia is an incredibly diverse country. So some of the highest religious holidays of all its six government-approved religions* are public holidays.
In Bali, for instance, people were busy celebrating their two most important religious holidays, called Galungan and Kuningan, for a period of 10 days just before Christmas. Christmas was only on the minds of tourists and some Christian minorities.
Now, the Christian and Catholic regions (Protestants are called "Kristen", while Catholics are called "Katolik") are busy celebrating Christmas.
Since many Chinese Indonesians are Christians, you have a lot of Christian activity also in majority Muslim regions such as Java. (Aceh is unique in that it has Shariah law and does not allow for any other religion than Islam being practiced, even though there are Christian minorities in the barrier island off the coast of Sumatra).
Jakarta, the capital has a particularly high percentage of Christians, and it also has a lot of expats and is subject to a lot of foreign influence anyways, thus its malls are in a complete Christmas mode right now. This is what prompted one of the most important Muslim organizations to exhort against overdoing it, but it seems that many Westernized, nominally* Muslim Jakartans are nevertheless drawn into it, not so much for religious reasons, but because it represents Western hipness.
In regions where religious harmony is intact neighbors of different faith can actually be found celebrating each other's holidays together, but this doesn't hold good for areas where interreligious tensions have been rising. Of late this includes the capital, where radical Muslim youth organizations have been on the look-out for "illegal churches".
*Indonesia makes it an obligation on every citizen to believe in one God from one of the six officially approved religions. This is an aftermath of what happened In the 60s.
Posted by: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnwX_vXZjOlKfGC5q-glIh-tmfIJ6PDLR4
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December 26, 2010 10:25 PM
@uppity craka:
Raves? I don't know, that seems kind of arbitrary.
Christmas = parties. Parties = raves. Raves = fun, girls and boys getting together, hookups, and drugs that make you want to cuddle people instead of beheading those that blaspheme against the prophet.
Muslims hate that shit.