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Category: Skepticism
Posted on: January 29, 2011 2:28 PM, by PZ Myers
Africa is suffering through the global AIDS pandemic — tens of millions are infected with HIV. It's good that wealthier nations are sending resources to the continent, but do they really need a quack homeopath and chiropractor to travel to Tanzania to treat AIDS with homeopathy?
Wait…there are areas of North Africa where the water shortages are chronic and acute. Maybe she'd be more useful if she went there with her magic vials.
Medicine & HealthHTML commands: <i>italic</i>, <b>bold</b>, <a href="url">link</a>, <blockquote>quote</blockquote>
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Ethan Siegel 02.22.2012
Tim Lambert 09.12.2011
Comments
Posted by: billygutter01
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January 29, 2011 2:42 PM
Sure, why not?
How about throwing in a wizard and some magic beans while they're at it...
Sheesh!
Posted by: Joe
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January 29, 2011 2:43 PM
...
This is disturbing.
Think of the good they /could/ do... instead of passing snake oil off and making the problem worse.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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January 29, 2011 2:54 PM
Can't we share our pseudoscientific bozos. Our abundance is so great, surely we can spare some idiots for those who lack them, or at least, lack our particular idiots.
To put it another way, I don't think they'll be missed by too many.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: blf
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January 29, 2011 2:58 PM
Ok, where's the money in this? Homeopathetics is all about the money, so where's the money in this?
Posted by: Beatrice, anormalement indécente
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January 29, 2011 2:58 PM
From her blog:
The word "successful" must have some new meaning I am not aware of.
What's the funding for? They can perform their miracles with a couple of bottles of water.
Posted by: rather be fishing
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January 29, 2011 2:59 PM
Homeopathy, if it works, should at least stop droughts. Wouldn't wells and aquifers retain the memory of water? Add a minor earthquake for the succussion and presto, magic happens!
Send the homeopaths to Tunisia and say the Ben Ali family hired 'em.
Posted by: UrsaMinor
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January 29, 2011 3:00 PM
How far does water have to be diluted to be effective at treating drought?
Posted by: Dhorvath, OM
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January 29, 2011 3:02 PM
Treat aids with homeopathy. Treat aids with homeopathy. Treat aids with homeopathy. Nope, I still can't parse that. I guess if they got together with the RCC and applied homeopathic thinking to priests we could do a 30c dilution and end one problem, otherwise I just don't see how this can be a good thing.
Posted by: rather be fishing
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January 29, 2011 3:10 PM
A dry aquifer could be considered having water diluted with a very large amount of rock. Add a vial of water, since like cures like, wow, I means woo happens.
Posted by: te24hours
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January 29, 2011 3:14 PM
Well, salt causes thirst, and a liter of 30C solution of sodium chloride cures thirst.
So, homeopathy works!
Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian
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January 29, 2011 3:27 PM
"Homeopaths Without Borders"? !!!
Fucking fuckers. Attempting to leach off the goodwill earned by properly trained professionals engaged in genuine humanitarian work.
Scum.
Posted by: andrewasante
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January 29, 2011 3:27 PM
From the website.
One of these quotes is not like the others.
Posted by: Don Quijote
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January 29, 2011 3:29 PM
When are these people going to stop hurting Africa?
When are these governments in Africa going to stop putting up with these arseholes?
When are they going to stop killing politicians who do have some common sense?
Posted by: Dick the Damned
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January 29, 2011 3:56 PM
I read in this week's New Scientist that 67% of the voters in Switzerland have voted for five kinds of complementary 'medical treatment' to be funded by their health service. Homeopathy is one of them.
This funding arrangement will last until 2017. In the interim, the science establishment will assess the efficacy, or not, of the 'treatments'.
And i thought that the Swiss were sensible folks.
When the magical 'treatments' are exposed as no better than placebos, funding can be removed. The problem is that the 'complementary practitioners' spend much longer with their patients than do medical doctors, (I've heard one hour versus ten minutes), so they should perform better than placebos dispensed by the same person dispensing real medicine. I hope that the studies take this into account.
Posted by: billygutter01
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January 29, 2011 3:56 PM
On a continent with a staggering rate of HIV/AIDS, a commitment to hunting "child witches", and a robust hatred of homosexuals, what's really needed most?
Homeopathy, of course!
Sweet Jeebus Fracking Christmas...
Posted by: Shadow
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January 29, 2011 3:57 PM
#5: Maybe they're using a homeopathic version of the word "successful"?
Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy
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January 29, 2011 4:02 PM
Does the "path" suffix in "homeopathy" mean something different from the "path" in "pathological" or "sociopath"?
Posted by: David23
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January 29, 2011 4:45 PM
After they have cured these people there should be a quality assurance test. i.e inject them selves with some of this clean blood. Sorry, but this stories like this really piss me off. If the restricted the pain and suffering to just themselves that is one thing but to go around the world inflicting harm on others.
Posted by: andrewasante
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January 29, 2011 4:57 PM
Is there nothing that can be done in the US to stop these fools at source? Something along the lines of they are hurting the image of the US abroad?
Posted by: Amblebury
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January 29, 2011 5:34 PM
I recommend people look at Ben Goldacre's analysis of the impact of Mathias Rath's nutritioninst nonsense in Bad Science. It's on Goldacre's website, I think.
Posted by: Daniel de Rauglaudre
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January 29, 2011 7:58 PM
Escrocs Sans Frontières
Posted by: ali
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January 29, 2011 10:13 PM
@#14 Dick the Damned
In fact they did already a big assessment before the vote and it turned out, surprise, surprise, that the treatments are not effective (amongst other studies one of them was the often cited Shang et al 2005 meta-study, published in The Lancet). So according to the letter, even with after the yes vote, there should be no homeopathy paid for by the (compulsory) health insurance (unless of course you want to pay for this in addition voluntarily). However, this is not what people voted for, so now they put it back on and asked for a new assessment. This was a political move and has little to do with science. The pressure was simply to big. I guess they are just trying to win some time. In the end (unless there is a massive change in public opinion) they will just figure out a way to claim the treatments are effective. This in turn will then be used by homeopaths as an argument that it had been proven that their sugar pills work.
The debates around the vote made me realize what kind of losing battle this is. A large majority could not be convinced of the obvious. Reason was completely ineffective.
Posted by: Aliasalpha
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January 29, 2011 11:17 PM
Perhaps they've found some hungry lions in africa and this is actually a food drop.
Pretty mean to give them a homeopath but its probably a little better than starving
Posted by: NitricAcid
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January 29, 2011 11:37 PM
While I really hate to wish this on anyone, I almost hope they catch AIDS while they're there. Let them demonstrate the effectiveness of their own remedies.
Posted by: Nij
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January 29, 2011 11:54 PM
How long do we think, until somebody calls them "dark wizards" for using their "magic" and starts chopping off arms or shooting the place up?
Posted by: forthesakeofscience
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January 30, 2011 12:24 AM
Pollack is going to be visiting the area around Kilimanjaro. I was there last year. She has no fucking clue what sort of abject poverty she's going to see. She has no fucking idea how badly that area needs medicine. I saw several villages with their medical shacks. Each one was about a quarter the size of aisle 14 at your local Rite-Aid. These people need real medicine, real help, real doctors.
This is fucking disgusting. And she's from Maine. What the fuck.
Posted by: Robbie
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January 30, 2011 12:25 AM
The fact that homeothopy is referred to as a "complimentary medicine" gives it a credibility it really doesn't deserve. Medicine suggests a theraputic benefit. The Africans need real medicine, not watered down nonsense.
Posted by: Somemadchef
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January 30, 2011 2:08 AM
I live in South Africa which has the highest HIV infection rate.
The former president Thabo Mbeki in his time in office couldn't get to come to terms that HIV caused AIDS and so no point in panicing and rolling out ARV's to the infected people. What did happen the late minister of health held conferences about how the western drug companies were trying to recolonise Africa with their imperial agenda.Her advice was for infected people to drink a concoction of beetroot,onion and garlic juice to boost the immune system. This idea was given to her by a naturalist.
The late health minister it was discovered was criminally charged and convicted with stealing her patients belongings while serving as a doctor whilst in exile during the apartheid years. She was also an alcoholic that jumped the line and got herself a new liver. She managed to drink herslf to death evetually, new liver and all.
I will sum up African leaders mentality, make yourself as rich as possible, as fast as possible and hang on for as long as possible. Life is cheap in Africa and westerners will just never understand that in most cases you are dealing with people that still cling onto stone age beliefs and have deep rooted tribal traditons that determine everything in life.
The witch doctor is still consulted on all health matters and hocus pocus is the order of the day which explains why the church has so much influence in Africa as it ticks all the magical boxes.
Prime hunting ground for the likes of Benny Hin who have had many healing crusades here and made a fortune from the poorest of the poor.
Amen and praise the Lord for the one sucker that is born every minute that gives me 10% of his income.
Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist
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January 30, 2011 2:57 AM
@Robbie
Well it is complimentry
In that it sucks so bad it makes real medicine look like miracle panaceas shat by angels and rained down from on high by compassion. Thus you're able to say "that's good medicine, it sure isn't homeopathy"
Posted by: Agathon
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January 30, 2011 4:26 AM
Hmm. Homeopathy is idiocy, as we all know. But other idiotic answers are worse - homeopathy is physically harmless silliness - genital mutilation is also recommended, idiotic, but NOT harmless. Edell's sensible comments here.
Posted by: Amblebury
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January 30, 2011 5:18 AM
http://badscience.net/files/The-Doctor-Will-Sue-You-Now.pdf
I hope that link works! It fleshes out Somemadchef's comments.
I disagree with the argument that homeopathy is harmless. The powder pills are, but significant harm is done when they're replacements for anti-malarials, immunisations etc.
Posted by: Dick the Damned
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January 30, 2011 7:02 AM
Ali @ #22, thanks for that; you've clarified a situation that New Scientist hadn't fully explained. It's depressing.
Posted by: Somemadchef
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January 30, 2011 8:46 AM
I did forget to add something to the ongoing HIV pandemic in Africa that is the ground breaking work of the catholic church and their progressive stance on condom use. Maybe they can add that to John Pauls list of miracles when they make him a saint.
Maybe it is just me but it seems that here in Africa religion is to blame for a lot of things.The aparthied government used religion to justify a lot of what they did and were all outwardly staunch conservative christians. How staunch you may ask well South Africa only got television(this was to prevent the moral decay of society) for the first time in 1976 however this probably had more to do with blanking out news reports. All night clubs bars and restaurants shut down at midnight on a Saturday for the "Sabbath". You could not even go to a movie on a Sunday.
On the other hand the so called independent black home states within South Africa had casino's and cinemas with hard core porn. You can imagine who were first in line to go... that's right the conservative christians.
The catholic church is thriving in Africa and the reborn christians( we label that lot happy clappers) are hot on thier heels for a slice of the pie.
Having spent 12 years in a catholic school in aparthied South Africa I had first hand experince of the clergys compassion and delight of being legally able to dish out corporal punishment every chance they got.This was done with a wooden cane across the bottom just hard enough not to break the skin, but that did happen a lot. If you were really bad you got 6 lashes which was called "6 of the best" and if you were really really wicked you were beaten infront of the whole school.
Be it islam , christianity, scientology, homeopathy or any other hocus pocus bullshit one thing you can be sure of all those people are cut from the same cloth. The sad part is so many people buy into all there lies and deception and I think I know why.
It is easier to fit in with the majority and be accepted than be a free thinker.It is also easier to get someone else to read the bible for you and make you feel all warm and secure on a Sunday than face reality.The sad truth is anyone with half a brain actually sat down and read a bible or koran would realise it is just a bunch of made up for fetched bullshit that contradicts itself repeatedly and actually makes no sense.
Even the birth and death of Christ differs in the 4 gospels of matthew ,Mark,Luke and John. You would think that they would all have the same account on that subject but they don't.
There is more than enough evidince in the bible itself to show it is a load of crap you neeed not even go the route of evolutionary biology because that argument goes over thier heads. Just ask them where cain got his wife from and they will be left gobbsmacked with no proper answer.
You can't bring scientific arguments to people who have no understanding of science you have to sink to thier level.
I should have saved this for the hate thread.
Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas
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January 30, 2011 9:08 AM
Ugh.
"Corporal punishment" needs to be called what it is: a form of child-abuse. Teachers and parents who inflict ritualized beatings on the children in their charge are not exercising "discipline": they are child-abusers. This form of sadistic "punishment" demonstrably causes lasting psychological damage to children, and is never acceptable in any circumstances.
(In fact, I'd go so far as to say that traditional forms of "flogging", "birching", "paddling" etc. should be considered a form of sexual abuse. Whatever purpose it's done for, hitting someone across the bare buttocks as a means of humiliation is a very profound violation of someone's intimate space, and inflicting this kind of "punishment" on another person against their will should be considered a sexual assault, IMO, rather than a battery simpliciter. And it should be treated as such by the criminal justice system.)
Posted by: hilary.nelson
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January 30, 2011 10:31 AM
Tell Dr. Wendy Pollock what you think of her trip, and do some good at the same time.
The $1,400 in donations she claims to have collected from well-wishers would do some real good if she passed it along to the UN Global Fund inspired by (RED). At 40 cents a day for antiretroviral drugs, that much money would keep 10 people living with AIDS in Africa healthy for almost a year.
That's a far better use for the funds than paying for a well-intentioned western witchdoctor to take a junket to another continent just so she can pat some backs and dispense sugar pills.
I have a modest suggestion: make a donation to the Global Fund, and have the email tribute card sent to Dr. Pollack, with a polite but pointed personal message urging her to do the same.
I just did, and I'll be smiling for the rest of the day.
You can find a link to the donation form at:
http://www.joinred.com/takeaction/donate
Dr. Pollack's email address (as listed in the first post on her blog) is:
drwendypollock@gmail.com
Posted by: FrankT
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January 30, 2011 11:36 AM
I find Acupuncture Without Borders to be more horrifying. Sure, waving magic water at people i genuine need is repulsive, but sticking reusable needles into AIDS patiets for no damnn reason is much worse. And yes, that's a real organization:
http://www.acuwithoutborders.org/
Posted by: Evomonkey
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January 30, 2011 11:44 AM
"Homeopaths Without Borders" - this is vile and criminal. They are "Homeopaths Without Shame"!
Posted by: Cowcakes
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January 31, 2011 6:01 AM
Surely this is a crime against humanity.
"Homeopaths Without Borders", no they should have electric fences and razor wire to keep the fuckwits isolated from the sane.