Pharyngula

Posted by: Rokkaku | April 27, 2011 11:01 AM

The unsinkable rubber ducks at WND are already underway:

"If the document proves valid, it could answer the questions raised by those who have alleged he was not actually born in Hawaii. But it also could prove his ineligibility because of its references to his father. Some of the cases challenging Obama have explained that he was a dual citizen through his father at his birth, and they contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born citizens."

So even *this* isn't enough.

It's not going to go anywhere, and Obama needs to rise above it. What does he think will happen here - that by chastising the wingnuts for "silliness" it's going to stop? Or that it'll become even more of a media circus than it already is?

He might not be able to win this game - but if he completely ignores it, at least he's not losing.

Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 27, 2011 11:04 AM

Yeah, well, where was he on 9/11? Huh?

Glen Davidson

Posted by: Blueaussi | April 27, 2011 11:07 AM

I always thought all that birther nonsense was more because they can't comment on the color of his skin than because they really believe he wasn't born in Hawaii.

Posted by: Zeno | April 27, 2011 11:08 AM

A futile effort. Nothing mollifies nutcases or shuts them up. That goes double for "experts" who babble on about what the founders intended by "natural born" citizen. Obama was born in Hawaii and is about as naturally born a citizen as one can be, but -- look! look! -- his father was Kenyan ... babble, babble, babble

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 11:08 AM

Yup. Now Trump feels important enough to have the President of the United States respond to him when he wouldn't respond to anyone else. Great. I'm pretty sure Trump is just a lying attention whore with no real interest in being President, but I'm certain that is ego is so huge that he now things he can essentially command the White House. Obama should have ignored it. As you say, the birthers will now claim that it took so long to release it because they needed to make sure the forgery was done well.

Posted by: Moggie | April 27, 2011 11:10 AM

Alongside the fact that nothing will convince the birthers, it does seem odd for Obama to appear to dance to Trump's tune. Unless this is a deliberate attempt to boost a no-hoper candidate... but I find that hard to believe.

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 11:13 AM

Another priceless Trump quote: "I want to look at it, but I hope it's true." Yes, he's still leaving open the possibility that it's not the real birth certificate. Dear media: please stop putting microphones in front of Donald Trump. He has a condition that causes feces to flow from his mouth in the presence of microphones.

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 11:15 AM

Shit, could I have more typos in my post at #10?

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | April 27, 2011 11:19 AM

"The president ought to spend his time getting serious about repairing our economy," Priebus said. "Unfortunately his campaign politics and talk about birth certificates is distracting him from our number one priority —our economy."

*eye roll* Oh, riiiiiight because cutting Title X funding is really going to repair our fucking economy. Cutting services to the needy and veterans, to education, and continuing pointless wars is going to lower our unemployment rate. Cutting taxes for millionaires and allowing multi-national corporations to pay zero taxes is going to reduce the deficit.

Obama simply cannot win the birth certificate game. Now that he's released the document (again, if I recall), I really think he shouldn't say anything else on the issue.

As for Trump? This is a fucking publicity stunt, nothing more. He's going to announce his candidacy on his fucking reality program, for shit's sake.

(As an aside, I have resolved to use "fuck" as often as possible until we know what's going to happen to Pharyngula (re: NatGeo).)

Posted by: Alverant | April 27, 2011 11:22 AM

Didn't Chump promise to release his tax records when Obama released his birth certificate? Well Chump are ya gonna do it?

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | April 27, 2011 11:23 AM

Of course, this has nothing to do with any White House interest in distracting the citizenry from the simultaneous near-integration of the Pentagon and the CIA at the top level. Look, something shiny!

Posted by: Ch'tturgha | April 27, 2011 11:27 AM

Gus Snarp, #14:

Dear media: please stop putting microphones in front of Donald Trump. He has a condition that causes feces to flow from his mouth in the presence of microphones.

Fixed that for you.

I think the rest of my feelings were already summed up quite succinctly by Rey Fox at #11. I should... I should just dedicate the rest of my morning to watching pornography, so as to push the Republican filth from my mind.

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | April 27, 2011 11:33 AM

The man who lost money running a casino??

Hee hee...

Man's a legend, awright.

Following from this, I expect you'd be taking your life in yer hands taking him to a shooting range, too...

(/As somehow, the targets would get the drop on him.)

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu | April 27, 2011 11:34 AM

The president ought to spend his time getting serious about repairing our economy," Priebus said. "Unfortunately his campaign politics and talk about birth certificates is distracting him from our number one priority — our economy."

I am a non-violent person. But this makes me wish I were a violent person, so I could kick this piece of shit's teeth in.

It's HIS FUCKING PARTY that made this birther bullshit something we've all had to listen to. It's HIS FUCKING PARTY that refuses to do anything about jobs or the economy - choosing instead to starve poor kids and rob poor women of healthcare. It's HIS FUCKING PARTY that doesn't give a flying fuck about anything but divisive, pointless culture wars.

And he was still craven, arrogant and apparently braindead enough to say this?

I seriously, fully and completely loathe repukes.

Posted by: RAMausII | April 27, 2011 11:38 AM

Dems need to boost Trump to Rethuglican nomination for an easy win in 2012. This morning Trump rides in on his helicopter to announce, live on all the networks, that the pres responded to his demand to release cert. He's a hero to the baggers. Imagine how Plenty & Backwards feel watching it on tv and only dreaming of the publicity. Release timing was perfect. As a result of this release timing I'm donating again to the Democratic Party. We need more rational thinking like shown today in DC.

Posted by: ss123 | April 27, 2011 11:39 AM

#15... yep, now there are the "Certers"

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/barack-obama/birth-obama-certer-movement-098513

Posted by: James F | April 27, 2011 11:41 AM

RAMausII beat me to it, although Trump still has to decide whether it's worth releasing his financial records. Maybe this was just enough to push him over the edge....

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 11:42 AM

But Republicans never made hay over the birth certificate, right? Certainly not elected Republican members of the U.S. House of Representatives, right? Well, at least not recently, right? I mean, surely they only talked about it, if at all, back before he had even released the regular birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii a couple of years ago, right?

This is the easiest problem to solve. The president just has to give proof and verification, and there it goes. Either it’s real or it’s not. Everybody should put their birth certificates on the table and not worry about it. It doesn’t have to be a toxic issue. Put your birth certificate in, end of story.

I don't understand why the President doesn't just solve this issue. He could disclose his official birth certificate, and my understanding is that hasn't been done. And there's some facsimile, apparently, of something that is different. If the president says that he was born here, then I take him at his word. Within a minute the President could make this controversy go away. I don't understand why he doesn't do that.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | April 27, 2011 11:45 AM

Illuminata:

No, he isn't. He's already got another season of that tedious feigned reality show where he pretends to fire people.

Sorry, I misspoke (mistyped?). Last I heard, Trump is going to announce his decision about running for prez on the fucking season finale of his fucking reality program.

And I totally fucking agree with you- he's not going to run. This is a lead-up to something else, a way to get his fucking name out there even more than it already is.

Fuck Trump and his fucking cynicism.

Posted by: Seraphiel | April 27, 2011 11:47 AM

He should have remained silent about it, let his surrogates point out that the "issue" isn't an issue at all, it's been resolved.

Meanwhile the crazies continue ranting.

It was a serious mistake to even appear to give a shit what Donald Trump thinks. It's like feeding an animal at the zoo; he going to find something even more absurd to say tomorrow in the desperate hope of getting more attention.

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/EuJYvqoIp8chUUgxM9azMa7y8V_5qxYE2kg-#3aa28 | April 27, 2011 11:48 AM

"I agree that Obama shouldn't have wasted his time with this nonsense"

Nonsense or not, according to various polls as many as 40+ percent of the country either didn't believe Obama was born here or weren't sure. So I would say he most definitely should have wasted his time on this. Now, a large portion of those people who made up the "not sure" crowd and some (probably not most) of the "birthers" will accept he is a citizen of the United States. EVERYTHING is strategic in politics, the question is why did he wait so long? He had a reason and whatever that reason was now was the time.

BTW, doing away with planned parenthood would only better the country.

Posted by: Rick Miller | April 27, 2011 11:49 AM

Obama should endorse Trump.

"Although I'm not a member of the Republican party I would like to offer my endorsement for a great candidate. I could scarcely imagine better fortune than to run against someone like Donald Trump."

Posted by: gettingfree | April 27, 2011 11:51 AM

Sorry, this is off-topic, but I figured lots of people would be reading the comments here.

The other day, I saw this article where a Florida mayor basically blames atheists for all the bad in the world, and he makes this statement as the mayor, not as an individual. In response, there were mostly atheists comments with lots of "like" votes.

Mysteriously the comments disappeared, they claim "Due to a technical problem, we had to reload". So now atheists have started to repost comments, but not everyone has come back to repost all of their great comments that got mysteriously wiped, and the "likes" are lower as they have to be built back up.

I think this should be pharyngulaized.

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/pwFHblMngY4CFEXwDFEqPlIoq9c-#78a6d | April 27, 2011 11:52 AM

It's amazing how badly most observers,even most informed rationalists, interpret Obama's political maneuvering. He does not want this issue to go away. He wants to fuel the fire. By re-releasing his birth certificate, he's making all of the Republicans either double-down on crazy or risk pissing off the right-wing fringe that's the key to the nomination.

Obama is playing chess, but the ever-bellowing, daily-changing echo chamber continues to analyze his strategy as if he were playing Go Fish.

Obama is a political genius and a pragmatist. I realize that alot of people don't like the ease with which he seems to compromises, but he has actually managed to enact the most liberal legislative agenda of any president since LBJ while presenting his ideas in a manner that leads many call him a moderate republican. LOL

The time for Obama to burn his boats on the beach is after re-election, not now. But most Dems were calling for him to do that on Day One.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | April 27, 2011 11:53 AM

Yahoomess:

BTW, doing away with planned parenthood would only better the country.

Oh, do tell. I'd love to know how fucking affordable cancer screenings and birth control is a detriment to our society.

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/SaqGVG0xvJEQVwURVamS3DTCdvov0BLhXK1jOsYPPJQ-#b4893 | April 27, 2011 11:55 AM

Speaking of actual cnn reader quotes, here's one:

Totally fabricated. Look at the dates, mismatched characters and numbers, really bad PhotoShop work. His Mom's signature is a Man's handwriting, etc. Total amateur hour. Look at it closely, very closely Obamabots.

See?

MikeM

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu | April 27, 2011 11:58 AM

Audley @ 38 - LOL exactly.

BTW, doing away with planned parenthood would only better the country.

If this was a serious quote, please find the nearest bridge and jump off it. You're far more useful to the world as fish food, if you think denying health services to human beings "would only better the country".

Posted by: ThirdMonkey | April 27, 2011 12:01 PM

The root of the conspiracy theory syndrome is that the person thinks he is smarter than everyone else. The theorist’s arrogance will not allow them to ever accept that they were either wrong or being a damn, fool moron. They then lock themselves into this cycle of rationalizations when presented with any evidence against the conspiracy.
So then the first objective when arguing with conspiracy theorists is not to present evidence against the conspiracy but to demonstrate what idiots they are. Even this will just be rationalized and never truly convince them. But it’d be a lot more fun.

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu | April 27, 2011 12:05 PM

You're right, he's a political genius in that he duped us progressives into voting for a torturing, war mongering asshole.

THANK YOU!! And, a war-mongering asshole who *can* be bothered to to address this idiotic birther bullshit, but who CAN'T be bothered to comment on the 500 pieces of litigation currently floating around the country chipping away at Roe.

But, that fucker and his minions are going to scream PROTECT ROE!!!! and VOTE FOR OBAMA OR LOSE ROE!!!! any day now. While we're losing it anyway and he does fucking nothing.

Fuck him.

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 12:12 PM

If he's a genius political chess player, then he's a lousy legislative one. Or else he really is a conservative. One does not begin a negotiation with a highly aggressive adversary like the Republican led House by giving your opponent what you think they want, but rather by making a very high initial offer so that you can reach middle ground. Time and again Obama has offered the middle ground and then negotiated to the right.

Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM, CR | April 27, 2011 12:15 PM

http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2011/04/ballad-of-birthers.html

Posted by: Amphiox, OM | April 27, 2011 12:18 PM

Time and again Obama has offered the middle ground and then negotiated to the right.

That is because Obama is a slightly right-of-center pragmatist. The "middle" ground he offers is, to him, the high initial offer, to the left of what he truly believes in.

Only in Overton-defenestrated America does he qualify as a liberal.

There are no viable true liberal political candidates for high office in the United States, and this will remain the case so long as the liberal-progressives remain too sensible to risk destroying the country by mounting a far-progressive challenge (that would shift the window back towards the true center) to the only non-insane potential 2012 presidential candidate and risk allowing the far-right lunatics to seize control of the presidency.

Posted by: Ch'tturgha | April 27, 2011 12:23 PM

iknklast, #65:

The problem is, for anyone who feels like this, it isn't about denying health services to human beings, it's about denying health services to women. Not the same thing, right?

I hope you're not saying what this sounds like to me, namely that denying health services to human beings is a bad thing but denying health services to women is acceptable.

You can't possibly be saying that, but I keep rereading that "the problem is" bit and it keeps making me think that's what you're saying.

That's not what you're saying, is it?

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 12:26 PM

@Ch'tturgha - iknklast is saying that that's what people like yahoomess who wants to get rid of Planned Parenthood think. That's what the "for anyone who feels like this" bit after the "the problem is" bit means. I know, it's hard to keep straight who really believes the madness and who's just pointing it out.

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada | April 27, 2011 12:28 PM

The problem is, for anyone who feels like this, it isn't about denying health services to human beings, it's about denying health services to women. Not the same thing, right?

Are you really trying to say that women are not human beings? If that is not what you are trying to say, please try again. If that is what you are trying to say, then you are invited to vigorously acquaint your rectum with a decaying porcupine. Repeatedly.

Posted by: Copyleft | April 27, 2011 12:35 PM

You can never satisfy the demands of conspiracy theorists, and it's foolish to try. They'll simply up their demands.

Already I've seen many birthers declaring, "Okay, now for the school transcripts! And dental records! And travel receipts! More more more!"

Posted by: Pete Moulton | April 27, 2011 12:39 PM

REay Moscow @ 21: "...the Teabaggers and their lapdogs the GOP will not accept his legitimacy."

FIFW

Posted by: Ch'tturgha | April 27, 2011 12:42 PM

@ iknklast:

Thank you for clarifying. I'm breathing more easily now. I was hoping that was just a misread on my part and am so glad it was.

@ Ogvorbis:

If you need a spare set of hands to help with porcupine removal, count me in. But at least we can go on knowing we weren't alone in reading that the wrong way.

@ Ch'tturgha:

I think it's about time you stuck your flounce and dedicated the rest of your morning to porngazing instead of politics.

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada | April 27, 2011 12:45 PM

iknklast:

That is strange. I saw what you wrote and retracted the porcupine. It really was there. Weird.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 27, 2011 12:49 PM

I WANT PROOF THAT HAWAII IS REALLY A STATE IN THE UNITED STATES

Posted by: mas528 | April 27, 2011 12:55 PM

@Infraredeyes

Donald Trump? The man who lost money running a casino?? And now he wants to be President???

Hey, Shrub was president, and he lost money with both an oil company and a minor league team. He even lost money for the USA.

I'm sure Trump could finish running the USA into the ground just as well as any republican would.

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada | April 27, 2011 1:04 PM

a minor league team.

Not to be pendantic, but I'm going to be pedantic. The Texas Rangers are a Major League Baseball team. They started life as the Washington Senators (and the first game I ever attended was watching them lose to somebody when I was three (and my only baseball cap (other than dark green with an arrowhead on it) is a Senators cap). But, yeah, George Widiot Bush did lose money on the Rangers. I think Halliburton helped bail him out of that one, and the oil company fiasco.

Posted by: Mr.Kosta | April 27, 2011 1:06 PM

The president of a country being forced to show he was born in that country...

This is beyond bizarre. No wonder America has become the laughing stock of the "civilized" world.

(Disclaimer: I don't intend to offend American pharyngulites, but damn, the nutbags you have over here are plain scary, both in quantity and "quality")

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives | April 27, 2011 1:10 PM

Rev BDC: I wish that were funny, but I've heard it from some of the "birthers" - they claim Obama is lying about the year he was born, and it was before Hawaii is a state.

Orly Taiz, dentist, is already claiming that it's a forgery because no one would have written "African" rather than "Negro" on a birth certificate back then.

Posted by: Paul | April 27, 2011 1:22 PM

Watch for another racist narrative to gain ground now that birtherism has been completely and utterly debunked for good:

Protip: Obama already released his birth cert like two years ago (or was it one year? time runs together anymore). There is no such thing as "complete and utter debunking" of this, which the previous occasion made utterly clear. This is also why your "command to get over it" theory makes no real sense.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 27, 2011 1:35 PM

Oh look.

O RLY Taitz is still fucking dumb.

Birther Queen Orly Taitz Reacts: The Certificate Should Say ‘Negro’

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 27, 2011 1:38 PM

I see that was already pointed to by Carlie.

That's what i get by not refreshing before i post again on a thread.

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 1:42 PM

No one would put African on birth certificate. Except maybe someone from Africa. Like Obama's father. The policy was to put what the parent reported. Man these people are idiots.

Posted by: Phalacrocorax, not a particularly smart avian | April 27, 2011 1:50 PM

#80:

I WANT PROOF THAT HAWAII IS REALLY A STATE IN THE UNITED STATES

Certainly the holy Founding Fathers wouldn't consider Hawaii a state.

Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist | April 27, 2011 2:04 PM

@Akira

Shame on you

Whores provide the services requested of them! No Whore would ever be hired for a blow job and instead provide a backrub! That's completely different from the dickery Obama has done!

Posted by: Ragutis | April 27, 2011 2:19 PM

Er, regarding my post at #101, that should be: "No independents and a minority of republicans took the birther issue or Trump seriously"

For that, and any other errors I'm not seeing yet, I can only claim mental debilitation due to lack of sleep as an excuse.

Yeah, Nat.Geo, we fucking definitely need a fucking edit feature on PZ's fucking blog when you fucking take the fuck over.

Posted by: Abdul Alhazred | April 27, 2011 2:24 PM

Actually, the founding fathers would have recognized Hawaii as a state, what with having wrotten the rules for admitting new states to the union. It even happened a few times in their lifetimes.

Posted by: chaseacross | April 27, 2011 2:34 PM

I'm in the "Obama is a brilliant tactician" crowd. This move is perfectly timed. Obviously it's not going to silence the wingnuttiest birthers, but that wasn't the intended audience. The release elevates the unelectable Trump in the GOP field, which demeans every other contender. They end up having to spend more money to claw their way into the news cycle. Plus, when the GOP does finally get a nominee, that person is going to go up against a sitting President after having shared a stage with Donald Trump. Trump was already getting off the birther bus, so by releasing the birth certifcate and getting some self-congratulatory remarks from Trump on the subject, Obama has permanently tagged Trump as a birther, while portraying himself as the serious and self-sacrificing candidate.

Posted by: Gus Snarp | April 27, 2011 2:40 PM

While we're taking this meandering journey into the minds of birthers, my logic on this has always gone the opposite direction. Barack Obama had traveled internationally in the company of a number of other people, including Republican Senators, before he ever became President. There are two lines at U.S. customs - American passport and "other". Surely one of Obama's travelling companions would have noticed that he did not have an American passport. Therefore Obama must have an American passport, therefore Obama must be an American citizen.

There are only two kinds of American citizens: Natural Born and Naturalized. Therefore Obama is either a Natural Born citizen or a naturalized citizen. Naturalization records are publicly available information. If Obama is naturalized, the record can easily be obtained. No birthers have obtained it, therefore it does not exist. Therefore Obama is a natural born citizen.

Of course, it could also be a huge conspiracy dating back to before his birth involving fake newspaper birth announcements, fake birth certificates, fake passports, destroyed naturalization records, and involvement by personnel at all levels of government for decades. But if that's the case, mustn't the same conspiracy also be responsible for Bush II, Bush I, Reagan, and the popularity of Trump?

Posted by: JeffreyD | April 27, 2011 2:42 PM

Amusing to watch the nuts scramble, but the release never was going to do anything other than change the attack tactics. He is 50% black which makes him 100% nigger* to the people who back the birther issues. Always amazed that racists consider black blood to be so powerful. Back in slavery days an eighth (octaroon) of black blood was enough to make one eligible for slavery. Probably even less than that. Fascinating that white blood is so weak. Of course, in his cracker form, their god is pretty damn pathetic and helpless.

I do not believe in euphemisms. This is the word those people use, in all of its ugly glory.

Posted by: Sonja | April 27, 2011 2:43 PM

And people are forgetting that one reason the birther nonsense was created was to distract from the fact that John McCain was born in Panama.

I think the Right realized it was too good of a distraction to waste, even after McCain lost.

Posted by: wintermute | April 27, 2011 2:53 PM

Ah, timing: "In April 2011, Matt Drudge announced Jerome Corsi's book, 'Where's the Birth Certificate?: The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President', was set to be published in May 2011"

--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_birth_certificate#Campaigners_and_proponents

Posted by: them.bones | April 27, 2011 3:14 PM

Tea Partiers are the political equivalent of Internet trolls. Or mean-spirited children. Either way, something shallow and puerile.

Posted by: chaseacross | April 27, 2011 3:24 PM

@Gus

I think Obama would like nothing better than to share the stage with Nominee Trump, but that's beside the point. Obama has done very well in elevating the less serious elements of the oppossition. Trump was already walking away from the birther issue. Now he's going to ride that dead horse for several news cycles before he realizes he's been had. Meanwhile, Obama's stature remains entirely in tact. There are no graphics of him dealing with Trump and he never mentioned the man by name. This gesture comes off as the contempt of a serious man for a fool, tossing him a bone. If Trump had gotten a White House invite, I'd agree with you, Gus, but the idea of Obama (a President known for his frustratingly Eisenhower-like altitude), lowering himself doesn't play.

Posted by: Lotharloo | April 27, 2011 3:34 PM

From worldnutdaily:

With nearly 900 endnotes, the book, "The Manchurian President: Barack Obama's Ties to Communists, Socialists and Other Anti-American Extremists," was written by WABC Radio host and WND senior reporter Aaron Klein with researcher Brenda J. Elliott. In a chapter investigating eligibility issues, the book concluded Obama may not be eligible regardless of his place of birth. The authors recommend further legislative and judicial debate.

There you go. Nuts get no satisfaction.

Posted by: RAMausII | April 27, 2011 3:52 PM

Let's see! Tonight on the network news Trump and the berthers get two full minutes while T Plenty and M Backward again get to watch with mouths open. Obama wins by appearing to try to change the focus to more serious topics, which of course won't happen. Trump wins by moving to the front of the Rethuglican 2012 line. We all win by getting an easy to beat opponent next year. Love it.

Posted by: The Sailor | April 27, 2011 4:00 PM

I d/l'd the PDF from the WH (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf) and when you examine the doc in Acrobat Pro and remove the 'Deleted or cropped' content almost all the black ink goes away.

Anybody have an explanation?

Posted by: Copyleft | April 27, 2011 4:10 PM

Another spin I've seen today is that the birthers never really CARED whether Obama was born in this country... they just "wondered why he refused to show his birth certificate."

And thus, since Obama has now shown it... THEY WIN!

No, really. That's the argument: "We got him to show his birth certificate when he didn't want to... yeeha! VICTORY!"

Posted by: carolw | April 27, 2011 4:39 PM

I know this may be a radically logical idea for the birthers, but dig this: why don't they compare Obama's birth certificate to that of another person born in Hawaii, in the same hospital, in the same year? Then they can see what info goes where, instead of relying on what, their recollection of their birth certificates? Their children's birth certificates? How often does anyone scrutinize a birth certificate? How conversant can one be with the standard birth certificate of a given state, going back 40+ years? I have no idea what info is on my birth certificate without digging it out and looking at it, but I'm 99.9% sure it doesn't have my footprints, fer fuck's sake.

Posted by: b00ger | April 27, 2011 4:44 PM

As far as I know it is not disputed that:
a) Obama's mother was a US citizen (originally from Kansas IIRC)
b) Obama's mother is his real biological mother.

If a and b are both true, (and my understanding of citizenship is correct) it doesn't matter where he was born. He could have been born in a mosque in Iraq on 9/11. He would still be a U.S. citizen.

Am I wrong here or does this simple fact just get completely fucking ignored?

Posted by: Brownian | April 27, 2011 4:49 PM

I have no idea what info is on my birth certificate without digging it out and looking at it, but I'm 99.9% sure it doesn't have my footprints, fer fuck's sake.

That's because Jesus was carrying you.

[Feels pious 'n' shit.]

Posted by: AJ Milne OM | April 27, 2011 5:01 PM

... I can't figure out why Obama decided that now was the time to appease the nutjobs, though.

I actually think those mulling the possibility that this is as much a move to keep them talking about it as anything else might be onto something.

As I don't really think it helps his political opponents if various bizarrely paranoid responses to this frame how his opposition at large is seen in the public mind. And, generally, anyone who buys there's something to it probably isn't his voter anyway.

So this is a move to define the opposition--or, more fairly, help them define themselves--as those idiots who buy this none-too-subtly racist conspiracy theory. Not good for their image, at the end of the cycle. The more people think of Obama's opponents as a buncha nuts of that order, the better it is for him in the long run.

Hell, he'd probably love it if Cap'n Grandstanding Haircut were to keep sucking up any oxygen of publicity that might otherwise have gone to other potentially more credible GOP nominees on this thing for months and months on end. And hey, it's only bonus when any of his opposition get desperate enough to try grabbing some of that limelight by getting this ugly silliness all over themselves...

... as, seein' as there is absolutely nothing to it, it's a lot like having an opponent punching somewhere you're not even standing. Indeed, feel free, boys. Feel free. Hey, put yer shoulder into it, too... Commit, baby... Yep, that's the way. You pound that air, man...

Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies! | April 27, 2011 5:05 PM

@Copyleft
#126
So... like Charlie Sheen?
"Bi-winning!"

@booger
#130
Snopes.com - Obama is a citizen
Barack Obama do have some problem since...
1. His father was not a citizen when he was born.
2. His mother did not satisfy the "10 year in state, 5 years after 16" since she was 18 when he was born.
But, since he was born in Hawaii, which gained its statehood 2 years before his birth, point 1 and 2 is frigging moot.

Posted by: Menyambal: Making sambal (it isn't dragon magic). | April 27, 2011 5:09 PM

I remember some birther saying that when Obama finally showed his birth certificate, it would be on every front page in the world. I tried to tell her that it wouldn't be, because the story was simply a non-issue. Looks like I was wrong.

My siblings and I were born around that time, in various states, and all have different-looking birth certificates. Some of which have footprints (Good one, Brownian).

Booger sounds right. His mom was a citizen--end of story. Let me look...

John McCain was born out of the US, by the way. An army base in Panama, as I recall.

I don't care where Obama was born. Once he's sworn in, he's the president. (Or even not sworn in, if I recall Inauguration Day correctly.)

Posted by: Brownian | April 27, 2011 5:16 PM

Donald Trump? The man who lost money running a casino?? And now he wants to be President???

George W Bush? The man who lost money running a National League Baseball team? And now he wants to be President???

yeah.

"Run it like a business," they said. "Okay!" I said, and filled my nose with cocaine, made a bunch of decisions from the gut, stripped the place clean the night before the bank seized the assets, and made my fortune selling business advice books to entrepreneurs.

Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies! | April 27, 2011 5:17 PM

@Ichthyic
#139

And, the fact that it would no longer shock me is a primary reason for why I got the fuck out.

Posted by: badgersdaughter | April 27, 2011 5:24 PM

I d/l'd the PDF from the WH (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf) and when you examine the doc in Acrobat Pro and remove the 'Deleted or cropped' content almost all the black ink goes away.

Anybody have an explanation?

I haven't tried this. But the document posted by the WH appears to be a scan mounted on green safety paper. What machine did they use to scan the original? Was the WH document internally composited by the machine (even copiers can do this)? What would the electronic output look like if it was "printed to file" instead of actually printed out in hard copy?

Posted by: Marco | April 27, 2011 5:34 PM

In post #111, , jafafahots wrote:

So. Democrats have to keep moving to the right, otherwise Republicans will win and move us to the right. Well there's a winning strategy.

Yep, exactly. The Dumbocrats have been doing this for decades now. Clearly, it has done wonders for them. Not for the rest of us, mind you, who are now getting fucked more passionately than ever, thank you very much, sans vaseline either...
Next move? They'll join the Republican party and make their zombification official.
One-party rule: it's the 'Murkin way!

Posted by: beeblebrox28#2b746 | April 27, 2011 6:35 PM

Loony mode engaged:

Since they faked the moon landing, they'd have no trouble faking a simple birth certficate!

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 27, 2011 6:42 PM

In a chapter investigating eligibility issues, the book concluded Obama may not be eligible regardless of his place of birth.

The disqualifying criteria is being Black.

Posted by: ginmarie | April 27, 2011 7:16 PM

I used to have the optimistic belief that stupid could be cured, that it was just a simple lack of substance in an empty vessel. But these people cultivate stupid and seek it out and flinch from anything that doesn't feed their stupid like vampires flinch from garlic. They want to believe this stuff. They don't just innocently stumble over it and get convinced. Not only do they believe lies but they're liars themselves; they're lying to themselves if they say it's not about racism.

Posted by: Ichthyic | April 27, 2011 7:52 PM

I used to have the optimistic belief that stupid could be cured

"Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever" - Aristophanes

Posted by: Ragutis | April 27, 2011 7:57 PM

@ #153:

Pat Buchanan was already saying pretty much exactly that on Hardball a day or two ago. Apparently the only reason Obama was elected was because of Affirmative Action. That damn blackie stole the job from a better qualified white guy.

Posted by: timrowledge, Ersatz Haderach | April 27, 2011 8:42 PM

Conspiracy theories simply do not die when presented with evidence — they absorb the evidence and claim that it's further evidence of an even more elaborate conspiracy.

Anyway, everyone that knows anything about history understands that of course Obama is not a legitimate President - because no one is. The USA is an entirely illegitimate fictitious country that is rightfully a colony of the British Empire. Just because some bunch of long haired smart alecs wrote a load of tosh about declaring independence doesn't make it so. S'there. And anyway, the lease has expired.

Posted by: magistermundisum | April 27, 2011 8:54 PM

I would like to suggest a new conspiracy to investigate- Obama is an Alien- the kind with tentacles and green blood.

Posted by: jafafahots | April 27, 2011 9:06 PM

JeffreyD, it's not bullshit.

Yes, individuals should be judged as individuals. But when looked at as a whole, humans aren't that different from a virus.

We consume and compete for our resources until we're overcrowded and overwhelm them and the toxins we produce overwhelm us and we die back in constrained areas. We survive only by spreading. When there's nowhere left to spread to, we're in deep trouble.

And the Americans are Bad thing? Well, the US is the worlds' greatest (in the size definition of the word) empire. Not just greatest existing, but greatest in world history.

Most powerful empire the world has ever seen.

You know what the thing is about empires? They're bad. You can't make an empire without cracking a few skulls. Ok well actually millions of skulls.

Just because some (probably a lot) of the people Luke blew up on the Death Star were just file clerks and plumbers and good parents doesn't mean that Vader's Empire was a good thing.

Posted by: mikee | April 27, 2011 9:10 PM

Perhaps Trump needs to answer a few questions like
whether or not his hair was born in the USA.

Posted by: jafafahots | April 27, 2011 9:24 PM

...and anticipating possible backlash, I'll just add that yes, I'll agree that while we're the most powerful empire the world has ever seen, it doesn't necessarily mean we're the most brutal.

Still an empire though.

When your face is being ground into the pavement by the schoolyard bully, it's hardly going to make you love the playground bully if someone is standing there telling you that the bully they had back when you dad went there was much worse.

The current playground bully is your immediate concern.

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe | April 27, 2011 9:33 PM

Audley Fucking Darkheart:

How can you blame the voters when our choices are between really fucking awful and almost, but not quite as fucking awful?

Word. Pardon me, fucking Word. I'm already terrified of what we'll be facing in the coming election.

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies | April 27, 2011 9:45 PM

Caine:
I'm fucking terrified now. The amount of damage that these fucking assholes can do in the next year+ is mind-boggling. Think of all of the anti-choice bills that are floating around or the fucking Ryan plan that would dismantle Medicare.

My only hope is that the fucking Tea Baggin' Brigade will have done enough damage to mobilize the Dem's base, but even then, I'm not totally convinced the Dems won't throw us under the bus as soon as the Regressives pitch a fucking hissy-fit.

Posted by: Cerberus, unnatural product of en-OMnomnom-ification | April 27, 2011 9:46 PM

Ugh, I'm just pissed that our failed media's misinformation campaign has paid off enough dividends that way too many people are willing to concede that this is somehow Obama's first time addressing this shit.

This is just the latest reiteration in a long run of revelation. He has released more information on his past and citizenship than most any other citizen in the country. He has certainly revealed more about himself than anything he has revealed about our country's ill actions under Bush's and his own Administration.

Honestly, I think he is legitimately tired of this and in the same good-meaning, conservatives are really good deep inside, lifelong centrist sort of way he thinks this will take the edge off the constant dehumanizing demands. In other words, I don't think he's learned a damn thing since these two years and is still at the very least playing at the conciliatory uniter who is willing to put up with good faith and bad faith requests alike.

On the issue of our media, fuck them. Between playing along with Republican efforts to erase the last 2 years by letting them repeat into "truth" bald and offensively obvious lies like "he's hiding the birth certificate" and basically working hand in hand with the Koch Brothers to turn a barely attended series of paid rallies with less attendance than most of the other contemporary political rallies and certainly less than many poorly attended conventions into a "national phenomenon" "we all need to pay attention to and respect", they have already crossed the line into complicit evil.

But then, you realize that they've been the only National support for the Ryan plan and have been cheerleading it so hard hoping they can on their own be "enough popular support" to intimidate centrist dems to vote for it in suicidal fashion and that they have been only too happy to provide wall-to-wall 24/7 coverage for every conservative conspiracy theory for at least the last 10 years and its pretty obvious that our media has become wholly malign and must be eliminated for the good of the nation.

People are actually less informed about the world the more they consume modern media. People are actually measurably better with no news than our current news apparatuses.

And its starting to get unavoidable. Goading on the Ryan plan and pushing the deficit distraction and trying to erase any support for unions or medicare? Not to mention feeding this pit to the point that people are unconsciously repeating Birther talking points to defend against Birtherism?

It's bad, people. It's really really bad.

Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist | April 27, 2011 10:34 PM

But when looked at as a whole, humans aren't that different from a virus.

We consume and compete for our resources until we're overcrowded and overwhelm the

Stop. What you have just described is most certainly NOT at all like a virus. What you've described is basically every animal

Posted by: Marco | April 27, 2011 10:40 PM

In post #150 'Tis Himself wrote:

The disqualifying criteria is being Black.

Criteria: plural of criterion [noun].

Hence: "The disqualifying criterion is..."

If language is what we use to communicate, why not give it and us (those for whose benefit it's intended) the respect that they merit?

Posted by: John Morales | April 27, 2011 11:05 PM

[meta]

Marco, what makes you exclude the possibility that Himself wasn't deliberately and ironically indicating that the criteria's cardinality appears to be one?

BTW, your pedantry is functionally pointless and evinces an unwarranted inference.

Posted by: cyberCMDR | April 28, 2011 12:19 AM

First, Trump preening over getting Obama to release his birth certificate is like an infection proud that it made the doctor lance a boil.

I'm wondering though if Obama saw the other Republicans distancing themselves from the birther issue, and released the certificate to give Trump a bump in the polls. There is no way that Trump could win a general election, but if he won the primaries it would make a Democratic win a sure thing.

Saw a great quote on CNN over this, and it applies to evolution too. Don't remember who said it, but it goes: "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

Posted by: Frankosaurus, Cupcake of Death | April 28, 2011 12:58 AM

THe birth issue is just a result of lazy media. Nothing more. It takes more work to investigate policy than to keep flaring gossip and scandal. Of course, I don't think any administration minds having public attention drawn to collateral matters that are, in the end, easily disposable. When to strike the death blow is strategic, though trumping Trump may have just been irresistable.

Posted by: Ichthyic | April 28, 2011 1:12 AM

Someone, please let me know when the shitstain gets something right.

you mean you haven't bothered to killfile it already?

gees, I did that ages ago.

Posted by: rainyday | April 28, 2011 5:41 AM

Eehm...yeah that's the thing the whole world was wondering about. What a waste of time and effort. Stop bickering about trivial things and talk about really important things.

Posted by: drbunsen | April 28, 2011 7:32 AM

Christ, how much more blatantly racist can you get?

How about "get off the basketball court"?

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort | April 28, 2011 9:23 AM

@Josh:

I agree. It's the voters who put these people into power. It's the voters who constantly vote against their own interests and allow power-hungry racist, bigoted, misogynist assholes to ruin our country and throw us into another version of the Dark Ages.

Posted by: Calvin M | April 28, 2011 11:03 AM

Conspiracy theories crack me up. Just as birthers will never be convinced Obama was born in Hawaii, you still have nutjobs who still believe Bush was behind the WTC attacks.

Posted by: StevoR | April 28, 2011 1:29 PM

To quote from Leathal Weapon II :

But..but..but .. you're..bleck*

* South African acccent.

Posted by: Flex | April 28, 2011 3:36 PM

Kev Quondam, Kevque Futurum, PKoD @190 wrote,

I agree. It's the voters who put these people into power. It's the voters who constantly vote against their own interests and allow power-hungry racist, bigoted, misogynist assholes to ruin our country and throw us into another version of the Dark Ages.

Respectfully, I disagree. It's the non-voters who allowed these people to take power.

Some non-voters don't vote because they can't. They may work in jobs where being late is grounds for dismissal. They may work two jobs and can't get to the polls before they close. They may not have transportation available to get to a poll. They may be students or members of the military who don't get an application for an absentee ballot in on time. They may even be ignorant of the process of how to get absentee ballots. I sympathize with them, and think our voting laws should be changed to allow those disenfranchised by poverty a greater opportunity to vote. This would include extended voting hours/days, free transportation, collage offices to help students get ballots, and no-reason absentee ballots.

Then there are the non-voters who have swallowed the lie that both parties are the same, so they aren't going to bother to support the system. The non-voters who think non-voting is sending a message to politicians (pro-tip: the message being received is not the one you think you are sending).

There are also non-voters who don't want to take the time to learn about the candidates and issues, assuming that all candidates are assholes and all issues are going to screw them over. These non-voters are the most aggravating to a politician who wants to help their constituents, and these non-voters are the ones who tend to drive politicians of integrity and ability into other professions. These non-voters don't want to be bothered by campaigns and elections, they want to be islands in the sea of humanity.

There are republicans who have stopped voting because their party has left them, but they won't even consider casting a vote for a different party. There are democrats which feel the same.

Finally, there are the beaten. These are the non-voters who have decided that nothing can be done to help them and there is nothing they can do to change it.

According to one source [http://elections.gmu.edu/voter_turnout.htm], 132 million votes were cast in the 2008 presidential election and 90 million votes were cast in the 2010 mid-term elections. One-third of the people who had voted in 2008, decided not to vote in 2010. One-third!

1/3rd of people who were perfectly capable of going to the polls in 2008, couldn't be bothered to go to the polls two years later.

Posted by: Rich Woods | April 29, 2011 11:52 AM

This would include extended voting hours/days, free transportation, collage offices to help students get ballots, and no-reason absentee ballots.

Don't you USians get the option of a postal ballot, or is that something regulated on a state-by-state basis? Postal ballots on request were introduced to the UK ten years ago in an attempt to counter low turnouts, turnouts so low that even the politicians were starting to think that nobody liked them.

I'm not confident that postal ballots have significantly increased the turnout for all types of elections, but for me they have certainly made voting a damn sight easier: get a vote in before the campaign turns too venal to see the wood for the trees.

Posted by: Flex | May 1, 2011 10:34 PM

@Rich Woods, #198,

I don't know if you'll come back and see this, but what you call a postal ballot is very similar to what we call an absentee ballot.

In most municipalities they have to be requested, in person or by mail, a few weeks before the ballot with a form indicating why the voter would be unable to get to the polls on election day. Once the form is in, and the clerk reviews it for accuracy (i.e. makes certain that voter is listed in the poll books), the ballot is then mailed to the voter who has to get it back, properly filled out and sealed, to the clerk before election day.

It is usually possible to walk into the municipalities office and fill out the request and even fill out the ballot up until the Friday before an election. But there is a cut-off time for doing this, mainly because the clerks are usually so busy the Monday before and election that they can't have time to properly supervise the handing out of absentee ballots.

Most municipalities require the voter to give a reason to request an absentee ballot, and most municipalities allow the clerk to dis-allow an absentee ballot if the clerk feels the reason for missing the polls isn't a valid one under the election laws. Most clerks that I've worked with never challenge a request, but they have the legal power to do so.

This is changing in many municipalities, a number of states have introduced no-reason absentee ballots, meaning that the clerk cannot refuse an absentee ballot request. Michigan, my state, hasn't don't this yet, although there is continuous pressure from the township association to our legislature to do so. Frankly, the clerks don't want to have the responsibility to check on whether citizens are telling the truth about needing an absentee ballot.

Oregon, is an exception in that a few years ago, as a cost saving measure in fact, they started sending every voter in the state absentee ballots automatically. People can take a few days to review their ballot, think about who they will vote for, and send them in. The polls are still open in case a voter forgot to send it in on time, but the cost of running an election in the state of Oregon has dropped (at least so I've heard, I've not looked at the numbers personally).

Actually, that's probably something I should do. That is, take a look at the election costs in Oregon.