I haven't been in a large lecture for a while, but this semester I decided to take a course in introductory economics at a local community college for my own enrichment. The experience has reminded me why I was so happy that I didn't have to go to lectures anymore.
(Ed. sentence removed. See below.) My classmates need to stop. They ask so many irrelevant questions. It is astonishing how much of everyone's time they have wasted. What is even more astonishing is that the rest of the students haven't conspired to have them renditioned to some foreign gulag.
I know what you're thinking. The suggestion that people should not ask questions in lecture receives the unbelieving horror typically reserved for the public vivisection of live puppies. "How dare you suggest that we shouldn't interrupt for questions, Jake?! My question is necessary and vital to my learning. Are you some kind of elitist prick who would deny me my right to learn?"
To respond to this hysteria, I would like to enumerate the reasons that people ask questions in lecture:
- 1) To demonstrate to the lecturer that they are smarter than the other students.
- 2) To comment (presumably because they do not understand what the word "question" means.)
- 3) To request a restatement of the sentence that the teacher said two seconds ago.
- 4) To request a explanation of a point so manifestly obvious that the instructor writes a note to confirm whether that student has finished the necessary prerequisites for the course -- or even more to check that they are even a student of that institution and not there to complete the terms of some paedogogical dare.
- 5)To initiate a conversation with the lecturer -- a conversation in which 99.9% of the class will be bystanders.
- 6)To encourage the lecturer to go into a long and unrelated digression.
- 7) Ala Douglas Adams, to confirm the continuing function of their mouth and brain.
- 8) To request a limited clarification on a relevant statement made by the professor that is unclear at a time appropriate to do so during the lecture.
Of that list, only 8 is an acceptable reason to interrupt the class. Only 8 is not flagrantly ignoring the opinions of your classmates and sidetracking the course for your sole benefit. 8 is the only reason that does not involve you being a jackass.
Yet, anyone who has attended a regular lecture knows that 1-7 are the cause of the overwhelming majority of questions. I am currently in my 9th year of post-high school education. During that period, I can remember perhaps two occasions when someone asked a question in a 300 person lecture that I felt contributed to the collective understanding.
So my question for you is: why not have a policy of no questions in lecture? Why not have a policy of no questions until the end or in office hours? It is completely reasonable to for reasons of time constraints say "Please keep your questions until the end."
Why do professors tolerate such rude interruptions by what are usually repeat offenders? I really want to understand this because it is the professor's responsibility for conducting a lecture that finishes the required material on time.
Is it because the professors believe that the students will view them negatively? Professors, let me speak for the silent majority of students in saying the following: if after the third rude and irrelevant gesture of self-aggrandizement, you were to walk quietly and deliberately over to that student -- if on your arrival you were to slap them across the face with the admonition "We are all onto you. Whatever happened to you in your childhood that culminated in this unmitigated farce that is your educational career, we don't care. Sit down and shut up before I call security." -- if you were to do that, we would not think less of you. In fact, we would rise in cheering applause.
I have two requests.
Professors, please (Ed. phrase removed. See below.) confront these students before this behavior becomes endemic. It is deleterious to learning, disruptive to your lesson plan, and obnoxious to everyone. If your students are determined to behave like middle-schoolers, start treating them like middle-schoolers. (You could even start writing names on the board.)
And to the people who do this: stop. No one is amused; no one is enriched; no one is impressed by your behavior. You are single-handedly lowering every person you meet's estimation of humanity. Further, you have forced everyone in the room to contemplate possible legal justifications to have you hurled into the sea with a trebuchet.
Waste the TA's time in office hours. Stop wasting ours.
UPDATE: In light of recent events in IL and several of your comments, I changed the wording of this post to not include references to shooting. I agree with all of you that it was in poor taste, and I apologize to anyone that I offended with those remarks.
I would just say that I actually wrote this post last night, and I didn't find out about the shooting until today. If I had known about the shootings when I wrote it, I certainly would have phrased things differently.
These events are indeed tragic and must give us all pause. My sincerest condolences go out to victims of this foul act.
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I don't know about this, Jake. You say that this was an introductory class at a community college? Could it be that, having already gone through the undergrad educational process yourself and being older and more mature now, you're being a little too unforgiving? A couple of things to consider: 1) They're acting immature because they are immature--these are presumably college freshman and sophomores you're talking about; and 2) not to sound too elitist, but most of these kids are simply not going to be as bright or high-achieving as you.
While I would agree that the instructor should maintain some discipline about distracting behavior in class, I don't think it's reasonable to just shut off all of the (stupid) questions. This isn't The Paper Chase, you know.
I remember back in my Biology of the Cancer Cell class there was a lady who was big on 3, 4, 5, and 7. Those of us who sat in the front row gave a collective groan every time she opened her mouth (luckily, she was about ten rows back and couldn't see us exchanging the "Oh God not again" looks). There were a few times we even caught the professor laughing along with us.
There are different academic cultures for this sort of thing. At law school in Sweden, we enjoyed the odd irrelevant question, but nothing near the kind of stuff you describe. At a psychology course in the UK, I find that no one ever, ever asks questions. Some of the professors take to openly pleading for questions by pausing every 5 slides or so to ask if everyone is clear on that topic - you could hear a pin drop at those moments.
Man, I just read two articles, one about a 14-year-old boy shot and killed by a fellow 14-year-old student in a jr. high class, in front of all their classmates; then, a former graduate student who opened fire on students in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing at least six. The next thing I read is you, writing "I'm seriously gonna kill several people in class" and "Professors, please shoot these people down..."
It gives one pause. Well, it gives me pause. I guess you don't see any reason to be a little more sensitive than usual.
Awesome rant. I was right there with you. One day someone finally broke down and spit out a, "Just. Shut. Up." to the offender. He acted all hurt and surprised and started to defend himself when a few more of us chimed in, "Yes, please, we're here to hear the professor. Please stop talking!" Then everyone applauded. The guy just stopped and never did it again.
I agree with Michael M. Very poor word choice on your part.
These events are not to be taken lightly.
That said, I understand your ranting. And true, just this fall I took a class with one student who is as you described. You could see the rest of the class roll their eyes when he opened his mouth. After one of my friends recognized him and asked him if he was that annoying guy who asks the really stupid questions in class, he attempted to ask better questions. He was somewhat successful, but then became the annoying interrupting and sometimes totally irrelevant comment guy instead. I would have liked for him to shut up. However, on the other hand, there are times when I would love for someone else to ask a question because I am so confused that I cannot even formulate one. That usually happens in one of those classes that when the professor asks for questions and you can hear a pin drop. The utter silence either means complete understanding or complete confusion.
This rant is, IMHO, specious and without merit; so much so that the writer deserves the same beating he wants to inflict upon others.
First, as another poster points out, it's community college. That means freshman - sophomore level of instruction. As a TA, I wish the freshman and sophomores would ask more questions. High school doesn't prepare students for critical thinking. Students at this level are so cowed by the size of the class they never say anything despite not understanding the fundamental concepts. So they sink further down and by the time the mid-term rolls around it's hopeless. Agreed, they should come to office hours, but what if they can't because of work, other classes, or other commitments? Perhaps, their only time is during the class. It's not just about you, it's about the entire class.
Second it's the role of the lecturer to make these interruptions into learning moments. If the question is poorly worded or vague, I clarify it and make it relevant to the material and the rest of the class. If it's off-topic, I tactfully ignore it and roll on. If it's too complex (or too simplistic) I ask the student to see me after class or to see me during office hours. However, the best part is that it allows me to identify what students may need aid and clarification. Demanding questions be held to the end is all well and good for upper division courses. By that time students have learned how to take notes and identify possible areas of difficulty. These kids haven't had the chance to acquire those skills.
If this is your attitude towards your fellow students, I suggest you start your bio-technology career search now. Academia is bursting with unhelpful arrogant yahoos, we don't need to replace those that are retiring. Your elitism (not surprising for a farm boy) is showing and it's not particularly pretty. Perhaps failing the class will teach you some manners.
I agree with you Jake, there's some people who just should be banned from asking questions during lectures. Onkel Bob, as a TA you're probably teaching classes that accompany a lecture. Classes ARE the place to ask questions, so small wonder you should get them and deal with them. Also, at least where I teach, students' access to office hours is ensured by the TA's being flexible, so there is no excuse for disrupting a lecture.
While I sympathize with the general points made in this post, I have to say you must have had some awfully good lecturers to come to the conclusion that some intricate plan is being thrown out of whack by these interruptions. I've had numerous lecturers at the university level who were simply incomprehensible even when I already understood the material. I've also had some who would either mangle or entirely leave out crucial facts and arguments until prompted. In these cases questions could be very helpful.
As a general case, I suspect questions are more useful in classes in math and science, where derivations may be performed incorrectly or imprecisely on the board, than in humanities classes where they're liable to lead to digressions and conversations even more futile than the material being presented.
Jake, this is a very well-written post that addresses a topic my friends and I have complained to each other about for YEARS! I would like to say to Kurt, the first responder, that even as an 18-year-old undergrad in introductory level courses, I had the same feelings about the same exact kind of people I attended class with. I do not really think this is an issue of maturity or even intelligence. I teach second grade and do not run into this kind of problem with my own students. It is a very particular personality trait that certain people develop as young or not-so-young adults that I think MANY of us can relate to on many levels. I wonder if you can really make this more available to professors nationwide!
Then there's no. 9: getting the prof to notice you as part of your seduction plans.
So as it turns out, I appear to be one of these heretofore mentioned dufuses.
Let me explain.
I've been legally blind all my life. I was a computer programmer for 21 years before I retired in 2001 and now I'm trying again (after flunking out 27 years ago) to be a fulltime student.
Being mostly blind, I am accustomed to wanting to sit in the very front of the class so I have the best chance of seeing the blackboard. I use a portable closed circuit tv system to view the blackboard so I can really sit anywhere now (in addition to pocket telescopes which, as you can imagine, get tiring to use after a few minutes).
Sadly however, I am still accustomed to sitting in the front row. (Even though I no longer need to do so). When I sit in the front row and everyone else is really quiet (as is appropriate during a lecture) I get interested in the material and **FORGET** that I'm in class with others and simply blurt out conversationally whatever comes to my mind, as though the professor and I are the only ones in the room. As soon as someone makes a noise I can hear, I remember and shut up again until it happens again. Very fucked up.
Now I have fixed this by NEVER sitting in the front row. Since there are always people in front of me, I cannot help but remember they're there, even though I can't hear them. This has given me enough practice that I'm learning to even sit in the front row without speaking up. (Yes - I have to monitor myself and count the number of times I answer the professor and give myself an arbitrary cutoff until that habit is finished forming).
So that's how I deal with it; sit in the back. And that's why I was doing it; because being partially sighted, I really *did* (for brief moments, anyway) feel like I was the only one there.
Naturally, this can't apply to all those other jerks out there; but I cannot help but also admit the degree to which I must want attention and I can't help but think that's what some of their problems are, too. I agree that a polite, "Please shut up now." would be most appropriate. That's how I even learned there was an issue which I needed to address.
This kind of stuff pisses me off.
I pay to go to school, I do the readings before class like we're asked to, why can't I bring up questions? The idea that people should shut up in class smacks of "Jumping through hoops", where the only reason people go to class is to get their requirements.
People who ask questions grow up (you are talking about sophomores) to be adults who ask questions. People who jump through hoops become sheeple who follow orders.
Having said that, I've been told to shut up in class before, and it sucked, but over time I learned to ask better questions, more insightful questions and I am now finishing up my Ph.D.
I think you have unreasonable expectations. If you want education finely tuned to your pace of learning, then hire your prof as a private tutor. If you want intellectually charged discussion, I can think of a few places you're more likely to find it than a community college.