Sciencewomen

First off, You have got to be #$%^&* kidding me. Throwing a few back? At an interview?

Are you close enough to the colleagues in another department to confidentially discuss this with them. Sometimes this can be quashed through the grapevine without it being put on you. I.e. your colleague might have a friend in the department who they know to be sympathetic who can work behind the scene to get this changed?

I would really hope that someone in the department would get your schedule in the email and say something to the search committee chair like.... "Are we doing this for all of the candidates? Do we know for a fact that they are all actually drinkers?"
But if that isn't going to happen spontaneously, maybe that is message could be conveyed through backdoor channels.

Saving that, I like Alice's suggestion of getting and holding on to a beer without drinking it (choose one in a brown bottle if possible, don't peel the label).

If this is the last event of your day, you could always fake an illness. On an interview last fall, I got an actual case of food poisoning and had to skip out on dinner. They were very understanding and later offered me the job.

Posted by: Ivan | August 24, 2008 8:52 PM

Ivan - I'll be meeting with the "other dept folks" after the formal interview stuff. There was no way to schedule them in, ya know, around the beer and all. I did ask them to show up for the partyyy, but I don't want to come off as a "damsel in distress" who can't handle this herself.
I also wonder if this is something endemic to the southern schools? I'm not from 'round here.
I think I would be offered the job if I got alcohol poisoning!?!
Alice - many thanks.
Are Ader.

Posted by: Are | August 24, 2008 9:14 PM

I think that keeping a drink in your hand would work well during the event itself. However, if you end up taking the job, you would be committing yourself to repeating the performance at similar events or later revealing that you don't drink and (depending on your colleagues' memories) sparking gossip that you might be pregnant, might have had a drinking problem, etc.

Maybe you could respond to the organizer and say that the tailgate sounds great, but since you don't drink, you'd appreciate it if they could stock some [ginger ale, lemonade...]? If you keep a non-alcoholic beverage in your hand, you can still say "I already have one" in response to an offer of a drink, and that might be a little less heavy than "I don't drink".

It's an awkward situation, but perhaps they want to provide you with some social time and this is just what they do. The upside is that you'll have the upper hand in terms of impulse control; it might be easier to get the 'dirt' on the department from slightly intoxicated colleagues.

Posted by: scattered scientist | August 24, 2008 9:36 PM

Are- I think you probably are stuck going. I would sit down and think out some answers to alcholol related questions so that you don't have to think of the "best " answer on the spot. (I have done this for the "are you married/have kids" questions which you always get, although usually from people who are just trying to figure out if they should tell you about the great schools in the area).

If it were me, I would hold on to that one beer and if you get queried on it say that you "don't drink much" and that you sure as hell aren't going to go crazy at an interview and become fodder for all those how-to-interview-well speakers.

You might also get asked what you like to drink. Not sure how to handle that one. Maybe say you don't drink enough to have a clear favorite, or that you like to drink things that complement the food you're eating.

Ivan

Posted by: Ivan | August 24, 2008 9:37 PM

Speaking as a non-drinker (male) I can attest it's sometimes awkward to say "no thanks" for the 15th time in an evening. But I don't pretend to drink. I don't like sports either so I'm twice an atheist. I wind up talking about technology with the other geeks and they don't care if I drink or not. She won't have that option.

As inappropriate as it is to have an alcohol mixer as part of an interview, the evening will certainly tell her what she needs to know about them. Their intentions might be kindly but it's a hell of a spot to put an interviewee in.

Posted by: decrepitoldfool | August 24, 2008 9:54 PM

Quote: "A doozy of a problem"???
Hardly.
Quote: "Part of her interview involves having "beer with the guys"."
So in other words, she has an interview, then they're planning on a more relaxed, social gathering afterwards, at which there will be, (shock, horror), beer?
Go along, chat to them, if you're asked if you want a beer, say "No thanks, I don't drink, throw me a coke/whatever".

You need advice for this? You aren't gonna fit in there....

Posted by: Chris | August 24, 2008 10:16 PM

I don't drink either. If they mean going out to dinner, where you may order wine or beer with dinner, that is one thing. To go out to a bar, unprofessional.

my advise, don't go on the interview. clearly not the department for you. Further, contact the institutions Provost, HR and EEOC department. They need to know.

Scienc women, I believe you offered good advise followed by bad advise. Yes, call the chair and say you don't care to toss a few back as part of the interview, but that you are more than willing to be part of an informal gathering as part of the process. However, one should not have to (and should not period) disclose anything about family history (ie.history of alcoholism in family).

Posted by: randy | August 24, 2008 10:27 PM

I'd go, but not drink. I doubt they'd say "we can't hire her, she doesn't drink". If they were the type to say "we can't hire her, she doesn't drink" is that really a place you want to work for?

Posted by: Brian Puccio | August 24, 2008 10:28 PM

I find social events with alcohol uber-awkward. Usually my way of dealing with them is to drive myself or not go altogether. I don't mind going to a bar at a conference for a conversation (I just order Coke) but I do not see the necessity at any casual departmental gathering. Sounds like a really tough situation. Good luck Are!

Posted by: Academic | August 24, 2008 10:30 PM

Chris- I will second what decripitoldfool says. It's not necessarily that its bad for them to have an informal reception with a more relaxed atmosphere. But putting the phrase "knocking a few back" on the schedule definitely suggests a more hard core drinking environment. I have had several interviews that had casual late day informal times, but they were usually listed as "informal receptions" and there was never any suggestion that the purpose was to drink.

Posted by: Ivan | August 24, 2008 10:52 PM

"That you for the invitation, but as it happens, I don't drink alcohol. While I have no objection to others enjoying their beer, I'd feel a little odd being the guest of honor at a drinking-focused event. An interviewee feels isolated enough as it is. Is there some other venue available for such informal introductions?

"Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I associate tailgate parties with pickup trucks, kegs of the cheapest possible beer, and painting sports team logos on your face. I'm not sure how to handle that as part of a faculty interview outside the University of Woolloomooloo philosophy department."

That second paragraph is meant to ask for some reassurance while showing a sense of humor about it. Maybe it IS a misunderstanding and "knock a few back" is just southern dialect for a get-together that shouldn't be taken too literally.

Addendum that's hopefully implicit:

"I know you want to avoid personality clashes, and I'll work to fit in, but can you meet me halfway here?"

An alternative approach that, in hindsight, seems better:

"Thank you for the invitation, but I should warn you that I don't drink alcohol. While I'm happy for others to enjoy their beer, if it would be awkward for the guest of honor not to indulge, perhaps there's time to shift the venue slightly?"

This doesn't imply any hesitation on your part, just consideration for their hospitality and not embarrassing THEM. And if they say they want to go ahead, well, you warned them. Grab some iced tea (also a southern staple) and ignore the matter.

Posted by: Petr | August 25, 2008 12:09 AM

Good luck with this. I side with the group that suggest NOT faking the drinking. My family is full of alcoholics and it's nothing to mess around with. I also agree with e-mailing who ever sent you the itinerary and mention that you are confused by the "have a few beers, shoot the breeze, throw a few back"
ask if there will be more than beer there, who will be attending (grad students, profs, staff?). Then try to treat it as a social event to learn more about your potential colleagues. Try not to judge the group by this one statement and keep an open mind but, like I said, get a little more information about the event first.

Posted by: Jennie | August 25, 2008 12:18 AM

They MAY be trying to discourage uppity Yankee women from coming to their department. Then again, maybe they are just trying to get to know their candidates in a relaxed atmosphere.

Since I'm from East Texas, I feel qualified to answer this one. Go to the tailgater. Be relaxed and sociable. When offered a beer, say, "I have alcoholics in my family, so I haven't acquired the taste. Do y'all have a coke?" Be sure to ask for a coke, not a soda or a pop. Don't be surprised if they ask what kind of coke you want -- coke is southern generic for soft drink. If they don't have a coke, don't make a big deal out of it. Drag out the cold Coke you brought along in your capacious attache/briefcase.

If they're assholes about it, there's your answer; bid them adieu and move along. That may also be your answer if they've not brought along any cokes; their work culture might be suspect. But if you've carried it off lightly and casually and nobody blinks an eye, you have a different answer, and may conclude that they're harmless good ole' boys who may have redeeming features as potential colleagues -- assuming that the department otherwise met your criteria, of course.

Posted by: Leigh | August 25, 2008 12:46 AM

I think it's a bad idea to lie or try to make it seem like you're drinking when you don't want to be. There's no problem with letting people know what you do and do not want to do. If they hold something like not wanting to have a beer against you in the end, I'm pretty sure you don't want to be working there anyway. I do think you're reading a little bit too much into this whole thing -- I think they just want to get across that this will be an informal gathering, and it is unfortunate that it was done in a way in which you don't really relate. Wait until you get there and see what it's like before jumping to any conclusions about them just wanting you to be 'one of the guys.'

I also think you need to try not to be quite so judgmental about the south in general. I grew up in the south and have lived most of my life since high school in the north (about an equal amount of time on both sides, actually). I tend to find most stereotypes that southerners have about northerners kind of funny...and vice versa. They are exactly that: stereotypes. When it comes down to it, there aren't such wild differences as everybody would maybe like there to be. I can tell you, for example, that people in rural western New York "ain't" too much different from suburban Atlanta. Sometimes the mode of communication is a bit different, and honestly there's a lot of miscommunication out there. Why can't we all just get along? ;)

Posted by: Dawn | August 25, 2008 12:54 AM

I agree with most of the comments suggesting that there is a degree of overreaction here.

I was in grad school at a university in the southern US, and when our department was hiring new people, they would often schedule the interview on a day when some kind of a gathering was usually being held (in our school the Bio department got together every friday, and if memory serves most of the interviews took place on a friday as well). The people in the department got along well, and yes, alcohol was there for people who wanted to drink it. Most of the department showed up each week, both the men and the women. The people who had come to the school for the interview often did stay for the gathering. It allowed for a more casual way for the people in the department to get to know the potential hire and also for that person to get a look at what the people in the department were really like. An interview can be a crazy stressful process, and these events tended to take the edge off. I went almost every week, but I never drank a drop and nobody ever judged me for my lack of alcohol consumption. I only went to hang out with friends, get to know people and eat some good food.

I think you already have your answer to your query... you don't want this job, and this job probably doesn't want you. You have already judged the department as being run by sexist frat boys, and you have suggested your willingness to be deceptive (by pretending to drink) to get what you want. I know that sounds harsh, but I think it comes off as less harsh than some of the other things you wrote.

I know the job market is rough, but in reading the the postings you have left, it is obvious that you don't see this place as somewhere you want to spend the next many years of your life. If you are still looking for advice, I say write this one off, and keep looking. Or take a step back and try to not looking at this as though it were some kind of a hazing event.

Posted by: prelevent | August 25, 2008 2:00 AM

I've never seen grown professional/academic adults, from the south, north, or many other nations for that matter, have a problem with a non-drinker. It's a very simple matter of social navigation, you should be a more relaxed person and have confidence in yourself in social situations.

You seem like you have a problem with the erm.. demographic that they represent. The south is anti-elitist, so even academics have learned to be sociable and 'down to earth' in that area. It says nothing about their underlying personality, they are still intellectuals. They have adapted to their social environment. Northern intellectuals can be eccentric elitists, southerners cannot. If you take time out from seeing them as a monolithic stereotype, '95% white males, beer drinkers, southerners etc', and see them as complex individuals, you will be coming from a much healthier place.

Posted by: keil | August 25, 2008 2:56 AM

I would absolutely not bring up your alcoholic family. That's way too much information for a job interview and you will make everyone feel uncomfortable. Conversation killer, guaranteed. And I agree with the others that faking it is not the best idea. Some jobs might be worth that, but I'm guessing this isn't one of them.

I don't think you even need to explain why, but if you feel like you must, just say that you have plans an hour or after it starts, don't want to drink and drive and would prefer a coke or ice tea (or sweet tea or whatever they call it) or something. Smile, be friendly and put on your best game face. Then when the time is up, tell them it was a pleasure and be on your merry way.

Women (uh, professional women) don't stand out in a parking lot to shoot the crap with the boys and have a beer to impress them for a job. My point is that this isn't about the job.

I think you are making a bit much out of this, Are. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but professional women do and can drink, just as professional men can. (I'm female, by the way.) Most people don't drink in parking lots, male or female, professional or not. And who knows- maybe you'll have a nice time and, despite the fact that you seem to think these people are beneath you, you might actually enjoy yourself!

I agree it's a little odd, and I can see why it would be off-putting, but I don't think there are necessarily any sinister intentions here. I'd guess it's probably a somewhat regular occurrence and they're simply trying to include you, which is actually kind of nice, if you think about it.

Posted by: Leni | August 25, 2008 3:43 AM

From a UK perspective I'm just astonished. I'm sure that an invitation to a job candidate to "have a few beers, shoot the breeze, throw a few back" with "the guys" (in a tailgate area not even a respectable bar!!) would expose any employer to an extremely high risk of a very expensive lawsuit for indirect sexual and probably racial discrimination.

Don't you American women have any backbone at all? Instead of arguing about how to respond as a non-drinker, show this place up for the stinking pile of neanderthal shit it is.

Posted by: Hilary PhD | August 25, 2008 4:31 AM

The comments advising you to bail out now just to be on the safe side make me sad. On the one hand, I understand that people want to avoid potentially awkward and unpleasant situations if they've had bad experiences with this kind of thing before. On the other hand, will there ever be more women in this department if all female candidates think "there are no other women there, and they seem to have invited me to a guy thing; I obviously won't fit in"; without giving it a chance?

I would optimistically assume that the purpose of the meeting is the informal conversation, not the beer. I would go, politely decline alcoholic drinks and have non-alcoholic drinks instead, and not treat it like a big deal (because it shouldn't be a big deal). I do occasionally drink a little, but never in a strange location around people I don't know very well, so I definitely wouldn't drink at something like this.

Since it sounds like a private reception with drinks provided by the organisers, I would email them beforehand and ask if they could also obtain some non-alcoholic drinks (and name some options that you actually like and would drink). I wouldn't say that you don't drink. It shouldn't be any of their business whether you don't drink, seldom drink or would just prefer not to drink at this event -- or why you have made this decision.

If it turns out to be a horrible booze-fest, or you get the impression that your not drinking *is* a big deal -- well, then you'll know it's not a nice place to work, and you should probably complain (if only to make them aware that their work environment is crappy and scares people away).

Posted by: Confluence | August 25, 2008 5:03 AM

Coming from an academic career in the south, having a social as part of the interview is nothing new and nothing to worry about. There is no need to contact the chair ahead of time. You are the candidate for this job. People are taking advantage of this opportunity to meet you and try to impress you. You not drinking will not shock them. You're on a job interview for cryin' out loud. If there are no non-alcoholic beverages around (which would surprise me) ask someone to get you water. It is no ones business why you don't drink; you don't owe anyone an explanation. This is a great observation opportunity for you. I like the idea of asking if these socials occur weekly. How slammed do faculty/students/staff get at these events? Does everyone usually attend? Attend the event, be social, and have learning more about the department.

Posted by: Jessica | August 25, 2008 5:24 AM

Disclaimer: I am white, male and I like beer. So maybe I am missing the point due to lack of exprience in this field.

However, I will however give my two cents:

1 - Faking would be a terrible idea. You are starting your interview with a lie. Not nice. It will bite your ass later on. There is also no need for justification - just tell them you don't drink. No need to feel awkward there. If they don't accept the unsettling fact of life that not all people are binge drinkers, they are assholes and you simply should not take the job. Their loss. Laugh is on their stupidity.

2 - Although the phrasing is odd, it might just be that the event is a way of allowing you to ask serious question in a more informal and relaxed environment, e.g. when the boss ain't there. In my own experience that's when you can find out how the department really is and where the problems are. Plus, remember that in vino veritas. You can ask lot of questions when they are shitfaced and they won't lie to you. A great way of knowing what is REALLY going on in that department.

3 - Once you have done this, if you have time, also try to schedule an all-girl meeting with the 3 women in the department to have a more feminine (and therefore not skewed) perspective on how much gender discrimination is an issue in that department.

Posted by: Andrea M | August 25, 2008 5:58 AM

I am another male who likes beer and I will second everything that Jessica and Andrea M have written. I also think it's an incredibly bad idea to fake drinking. You come to the new place as yourself not as someone who wants to fit in at any cost. If you don't want to drink they have to respect that and, even though I do not know anything about them, I would bet they will.
You also do not have to provide any explanation why you do not drink, I think "I don't drink" is perfectly sensible and complete explanation. You may tell them about your familly alcoholism problems if you want to but you are the one who decides whether they need to know that or not.
I understand you may feel antagonized by this all male beer drinking group but there is one thing that you have in common: you are scientists and scientists, as far as I know, love to talk about their science. They will be more interested to talk about the field you study than in whether you drink or not.
Also an interview is not only about whether they want you to be a member of their team it is also about whether you want to do the job with them. And an informal beer with the guys is a good way to find out regardless of whether you actually drink beer or not. So my advice is for you to go there with an open mind and see for yourself. They might turn out to be all that you fear, in that case, do not take the job. But meaybe they are people who you will like, you'll never know unless you try.

Posted by: Tomas | August 25, 2008 8:46 AM

As a chick, this sounds to me like a misguided but honest effort to break the ice. I had a few similar moments when i was becoming fast friends with the person in grad school i was closest to - a Muslim, and after a few false starts involving beer, and non-halal marinades, we were best friends for the entire 4 years.

My advice is also to attend but not drink. You really don't have to say why - i attend all sorts of parties with drinkers and nondrinkers, and when asked if you want a drink, "yes, please, a diet coke" really is all you have to say. You mention the fear of pressure to join in, but i have actually never seen that firsthand outside of a dorm or frat/sorority.

Good luck and if the department isn't for you, then you'll certainly find out!

Posted by: yttrai | August 25, 2008 9:13 AM

Don't lie or fake anything. You are trying to find out fit, and if you are not authentic, you won't know if you fit. Show up and bring a bottle of water or whatever with you. When they offer you a drink, say "I'd love a (ginger ale, lemonade, diet whatever)" and if they don't have, just say "That's ok. I'm fine with this. Tell me about the students here."

I've had this happen on interviews, and that's what I did. I still got the job.

Posted by: Mommyprof | August 25, 2008 10:04 AM

This kind of shit is just so fucked up. Coincidentally, some of us have been discussing this exact issue--"hanging out" with professional colleagues--over at Female Science Professor's joint:

http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2008/08/convergent-evolution-or-unnatural.html

I have explicitly chosen not to befriend my trainees and/or to socialize with them regularly. We go out for lunch a few times a year to celebrate noteworthy events in the lab, but that is it. No drinking parties, no rock-climbing excursions, no river-rafting trips, no museum visits, etc.

This ensures that we maintain an equitable environment where no member of my lab has greater or lesser access to professional scientific interaction with me or with each other depending on the whims of their hobbies or personal lives. That kind of extramural shit also definitely has a very uneven impact on scientists with children--particularly female scientists with children--who really can't go away on rock-climbing trips with a bunch of unmarried doucheknockers in matching turtlenecks.

Posted by: PhysioProf | August 25, 2008 11:17 AM

Original poster and others are making way too big a thing out of this - the "knocking a few back" is pretty clearly intended to convey an informal get-together - and no one will care that you're not drinking alcohol. Simply say no thank you if offered, say 'I don't drink' and let it go. I went to interviews where I was pregnant and couldn't drink, and it was no big deal. If you don't make a big deal out of it (and make your hosts feel like jerks) neither will they. Most likely they just want interviewees to feel like they are a fun, sociable department (and are phrasing it badly). How about giving them the benefit of the doubt. Let the scheduler (usually an assistant, not the committee chair!) know ahead of time that you'd like a non-alcoholic option.

Yes, interviews should be comfortable for interviewees of all backgrounds, but I don't think that this is intended to 'weed out' the non-good-ol-boys. Don't you want an opportunity to get to know who you'll be working with for the next decade? See how they interact with each other? It's amazing what comes out in a more casual, less guarded conversation...

Posted by: neurowoman | August 25, 2008 12:08 PM

I never drink enough to match my colleagues, and at times I didn't drink at all. I have a weak liver, so if I'm in a bad period I skip alcohol and as much saturated fat as I can.

And, please do not assume that they meant to be nasty: assume this was short for "and of course you can drink whatever you like, which for me happens to be beer". I have no experience of alcoholism in my family of moderate drinkers, and I wouldn't have seen as a problem such a request.

@Physioprof: I have been regularly taking part in the midconference hike, even when visibly pregnant: however, I did skip the smoke-filled whisky bar. And I took a generous maternity leave. After having gotten tenure :-).

@neurowoman: I'm married to a colleague, so everybody knows the answer to the first part. I did hide a pregnancy at an interview, and I would have answered diplomatically (=none of your business, but polite and smiling) to an explicit question.

Posted by: estraven | August 25, 2008 12:38 PM

You've already figured it out. Follow Andrea M's advice. Take advantage of the situation! You'll have the upper hand. Then, if you are offered and accept the job, you can work to (gradually) change things for the better. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Posted by: Bonnie | August 25, 2008 1:14 PM

Um, Amber C-F... I think you should try going to university elsewhere...in the north...in another country even...before drawing conclusions abut drinking in academia being a 'southern thing.'

Posted by: Dawn | August 25, 2008 2:10 PM

This is not just a southern thing. I am an assistant professor at an R1 in a Northern state. Alcohol paid for by the department is a fixture at many gatherings throughout the year. Frequently these gatherings occur outside in a courtyard or parking lot. Our department is about evenly split between genders.

it seems that the letter writer has a preconceived notion of southerners and is using the interview schedule as a way of reinforcing her bigotry

Posted by: Mike | August 25, 2008 2:22 PM

Thanks all. I'm seeing the same views my friends are saying.

PP - I read your comments and blogs regularly as well as FSPs and others. I'm also a separation of "church and state, work and play, profs and students" type. I never once went to a meeting or "hung out" with my PhD advisor. He's not a party guy. I'm a work work work type that does just fine in my field by publishing good papers and maintaining professional attitude. I've seen some women colleagues in my field get accused and thrown under buses for "acting inappropriately" (not with beer) yet for some men, similar events get swept under the rug. I will never be the type of advisor who hangs out with the students - lab parties, sure - I'll order pizza for grants and awards. But happy hour during working hours with students, staff, and faculty just really irks me. I instantly had the "are you ******* kidding me?" reaction when I saw the schedule. My friends say it's "normal" for the south. This interview is about my career! Not some "hey, we have a visitor speaker." Socially awkward situations for geeky women like me may be socially empowering events for geeky men. And men are doing the hiring.

My point isn't to make them uncomfortable. I'm the uncomfortable one trying to navigate this. And like I said, I'm not sure if they do this for everyone who talks for a job or a dept seminar. I take it that this is supposed to loosen me up - ain't possible. I don't loosen up when my career is at stake.

Another point I'll make - I would use a certain type of facility at another location (not far). I talked about this work ad nauseum in my application packet. A visit to this facility could have been put in place of happy hour(s). I did call the search chair to ask about this possibility - he said to invite THOSE people to the happy hour!? So, I asked someone from the facility (a colleague I have never met but is being very kind to me and knows my work, and I owe him big time) to help me work it in my schedule - he is going to pick me up at a ridiculously early hour to drive me to the facility so I can check it out and then he will drive me back in time for my first on-campus meeting. This whole interview "schedule" is very odd to me. Even the chunks of time for meetings are odd. It just seems that they left ME off MY schedule.

Don - LOVE IT! I want that on a shirt - I can bust it open like superman under the silk blouse :)

Neurowoman - and for the ladies who get asked "are you married/do you have kids?" - repeat after me:
1) I'm the only person you need to impress on this interview, don't YOU worry about that (say it with a smile in an "awwww shucks thanks for being so concerned" June Cleaver way)
if they press you (or ask AGAIN!), say
2) Now you know better than to jeopardize a job search with illegal questions - I wouldn't want YOU to get in trouble.
3) Thanks for asking/reminding me. I will be sure to talk about those issues with Human Resources during my time with them.

I also don't wear rings or jewelry, so they are left wondering. I have unmarried friends who wear band rings and engagement rings to play the game (like I would be doing if I grabbed a beer to feed the hedges with - I don't feel comfortable at all "baiting and switching" and I'm sort of depressed to even be thinking about that).

I'm leaning toward the "no thanks" and I'll ask for some "sweet tea." If pressed (and I will take note of how many people/times I get asked just to report back to you folks), I will say I have allergies. Dinner with the faculty will be later that night, so I can whip out a few snacks to keep my hands occupied. And yes, I'll be plugging people for info and hopefully, I can convince some of the females to show up to talk with me.

Thanks all - I'll do my best.
I hope the font don't get wonky on me.

Posted by: Are | August 25, 2008 3:57 PM

I think many women may be judged under different lights than many men, and women drinking on job interviews "with the guys" also interpreted differently...However, it doesn't seem like too many people are addressing this gendered aspect in their comments. Thoughts?

People aren't "addressing this gendered aspect" because the whole "drinking on job interviews 'with the guys'" thing is preposterous. She's not being challenged to a game of Beirut; they're going to have what any reasonable scientist recognizes as a routine social hour. This whole story is a complete non-issue.

Unless you hold your alcohol extremely well, I'd advise not touching any during interviews, whether you're male or female. No one is ever going to think any less of you for it unless you're pledging a fraternity.

Posted by: CC | August 25, 2008 6:51 PM

Could you clear up some confusion? The married/kids thing is definitely not an appropriate question at an interview, but it's standard conversation at social (getting to know you) gatherings.

If the candidate is there and she has not been hired yet, the social event is part of the interview process. Personal questions about her (or his) marital/parental status are just as inappropriate (and irrelevant) as questions about her religous preference. If the candidate volunteers information in this area, fine. If not, you would be well advised to leave it alone. In fact, I am sure your HR and legal departments would insist on it.

Posted by: Tex | August 25, 2008 7:45 PM

First, I think the interviewee is probably reading a bit too much into this. Most of the interviews that I went on had some sort of informal social gathering in the schedule, and the department chair may just given a rather offhand and ill-chosen description for an event that is in fact quite harmless. In all likelihood, nobody will care if you don't drink. I never drink, and in every instance where I was (directly or indirectly) offered alcohol I simply said "Oh, just a diet Coke, thanks!" and that was that. Moreover, the informal gatherings I've been to in interviews tended to be a place for general chat about science and academic work, comparing notes on people you know in the profession, that sort of thing. There wasn't much "So, if we hire you, you'll be hunting with us, right?" aspect to it.

That said, I don't fault the job-seeker for over-analyzing the situation: Over-analyzing is what we all do when go into high-stakes/high-stress interviews.

Anyway, it may be that I'm wrong, and that this part of the interview will be more intimidating than I predict. If you come out of it with the wrong feeling on how the social gathering went, then by all means (1) don't take a job offer and (2) make a discrete mention of it with the campus HR office.

Posted by: Alex | August 25, 2008 8:20 PM