Science and Religion

Before the main post, here is Daniels joke of the day: what do you call a fly with no wings? Answer…

…a walk!

Anyway, on the BBC 10 o’clock news a brief throwaway comment: the Iranians have made some enriched uranium, “with the help of god” (thats not an exact quote, but it was something like that). Which makes me wonder, why force god to go through all the tedium of pretending to do the science? Why not just pray for a nuclear warhead (ahem… or a working nuclear reactor, if thats what you are aiming for), and cut out the middle stages, if you’re expecting miraculous help?

Comments

  1. #1 Mark Paris
    2006/04/11

    I keep pictuing god squatting next to some technician, handing him the correct wrench.

  2. #2 Marc
    2006/04/11

    That calls for one of those parodies of the treacly “With You Always” posters. Try http://sortakinda.com/look/withyoualways.shtml

  3. #3 natural cynic
    2006/04/11

    I thought four balls was a walk.

  4. #4 Rob Knop
    2006/04/11

    the Iranians have made some enriched uranium, “with the help of god” (thats not an exact quote, but it was something like that). Which makes me wonder, why force god to go through all the tedium of pretending to do the science?

    The fact that you would wonder that indicates that you have no understanding at all what religious people are talking about when they talk about the help or the grace of god.

    And, no not all religious people are talking about the same thing– but very few religious people today really have an idea of a Deus Ex Machina god reaching down with his hand and just doing things. It’s a nice straw man if you want to make fun of religion, but in so doing all you really do is display your ignorance about god.

    A more pertinent question might be: does your god really want to help you make nuclear weapons?

    -Rob

  5. #5 Rob Knop
    2006/04/11

    What I meant to say was:

    ..all you really do is display your ignorance about what people who believe in a god think about that god.

    It’s like the religious who come forward and say, “Well, your evolution theory doesn’t tell you where life started in the first place! Ha HA! It’s a weak theory!” Of course, all they do is display their igorance about what the theory of evolution is, since that theory itself doesn’t say anything about the original creation of life.

    -Rob

    [I have some sympathy with this. But there are so many different views of god out there; clear some do believe in direct divine intervention; some don't. Sometimes the words have to be interpreted in some way other than their literal interpretation in order to make (or attempt to make) any kind of sense - W]

  6. #6 Luboš Motl
    2006/04/11

    Iran got enriched uranium with the help of God? I was always rather suspicious about God and this story seems to confirm the s(k)epticism. ;-)

  7. #7 coby
    2006/04/11

    And where does this fit in with GWB’s “you’re with us or your against us” crap?

    Maybe the voice in his head telling him to invade Iraq was not who he thought! oops.

  8. #8 Q
    2006/04/12

    You mean like ask God – for ‘ready made babies’ and do away with all the fun of making babies?

    Yep, you’d think Israel & the US could just ask God for an ‘atomic shield or ark of the covenant’ against their enemies, instead of going thru the motions of threatening to ‘nuke’ Iran and others, or build ever bigger ‘warheads’

    The most successful Nations of the first half of the 21stC shall be non warmongering economies/peoples. Not a good ‘augury’ for the US, Israel, Berlusconni, Blair, etc.

  9. #9 JQ
    2006/04/12

    Ready made food? – no need for organic farmers, GM crops, Fairtrade or ‘chefs’. Manna from heaven good for me.

    Ready made healing? – no need for quacks, charlattans, GPs, doctors, surgeons, pharmacists & Scientists. Hmmmmmm

    Ready made babies? – I dunno about women, but wouldn’t that make MAN redundant. The whole ‘thing’ becomes empty.

    Ready made environmental ‘cleaning’? – wouldn’t that make Council Street Cleaners, rubbish collectors, recyclers & Climate Change Sciences redundant?

    Art for Art sake, and money (US$dollar or Euros & £pounds) for God’s sake. I’ve got credit cards & mortgages to pay.

  10. #10 Y
    2006/04/12

    You know if the Sun didn’t rise (or rather shine) in the morning, or in the day and the afternoon

    1) there’d be no crops
    2) non-renewables would be exhausted in no time, just keeping the heating & artificial lights going in greenhouses, never mind Man’s other many ‘needs or wants’
    3) Yep, it would get Artic (or Antartic) cold

    Now this can happen thru burning woods & coal, the industrial revolution, and dirty industry 200 years ago

    Or thru the growth in use and abuse of air travel and internal combustion engines & CO2 emissions in the 2nd half of the 20thC & 1st half of the 21stC.

    But who cares. If you & the US don’t, Y (Why) should God?

  11. #11 Y II
    2006/04/12

    B 4 U ask – a few degrees north (colder) or a few degrees south (warmer) equally critical for crops, the staple diet of Man & economies. No food, no man, no living anything.

    So Global Dimming from all that jet fuel particles & dust particles trapped in the clouds, prevents rainfall and darkens the clouds (ergo skies). Loose 3 degree C +/- (1)

    And global warming, greenhouse gases accumulating higher up and not quite ‘invisible’ to the naked eye, temperatures go up 3 degrees C +/- (1)

    How many different crops can sustain 5 degree C change in temperature in addition to the average day/night changes.

    Nevermind you’ll still be able to drive into your drive thru Big Mac’s – but whether they’ll be any burgers … hmm

  12. #12 Q
    2006/04/12

    From Lubos 12 April 2006:
    “On the other hand, the funding of climate science as such has grown nearly by one order of magnitude since 1988. Have you ever seen $1.7 billion, the amount that the climate science swallows annually? Or one point seven billion dollars a year worth of mostly junk science? It’s not just the overall macroscopic number we are familiar with. I also know some of the microscopic mechanisms that generate it.”

    REPLY:
    $1.7 billion only spent on Climate Change Science
    That is what we spend every week on Medical Science in England alone, dunno about in the US – every day?

    But hold on 3 million barrels Iraqi Oil even at only $70 a barrel, that is what as much as a weeks worth of Iraqi Oil. The US must spend that a day on Oil (and coal).

    So Climate Science swallows up 1/365th of what the Oil industry exhausts & emits into the atmosphere every day…. Hmmm

    Allowing for only 99.999995% accuracy. That makes it a de facto Scientific fact (according to Lubos’ golden rule).

    [Lubos should probably look at the amount of funding that theoretical physics gets - W]

  13. #13 Bob
    2006/04/12

    If you don’t call it, you wouldn’t have to worry if it walked or flew ;)

  14. #14 Dano
    2006/04/12

    .
    I wonder if God will get me a pony…

    “If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank.” — Woody Allen

    Best,

    D
    .

  15. #15 Jon
    2006/04/13

    Travelling through (out of) the desert I met three blind men. Now they had heard that if they could get to the Big City, there was a doctor there that could ‘give’ them ‘sight’

    BLIND FAITH?

    The thing is they had also heard this ‘operation’ would cost $1,000 and I’m going back some 20 years, so allowing for inflation (at higher rates than in the uk) …

    MORE BLIND FAITH?

    They expected a miracle, by which some traveller (not me) would give them £1,000 each, so that they could go to the Big City, and give this man the money to retore their sight

    NOW THAT IS FAITH – even blind faith, but just because you wish for something or have great faith, does not make it happen or become reality.

    Just because you have great faith in man’s ability, does not make faith in a God less valid. The three blind men would have been better off having faith that God would send a traveller (me) to give them £3000 to travel to the Big City, and give to a man who would GIVE THEM SIGHT.

    As for the Iranian debate

    Do people think Iranians are stupid. If they know about nuclear power, they know about nuclear fall out. India & Pakistan are always rattling ‘sabres’ they are a more real and just as ‘unstable’ threat Read the Baghavad-gita or the hindu armaggeddon. The Creator & destroyer of Worlds.

    Towards the end of the coldwar, and the continuous impending nuclear ‘holocaust’ between the US & Russia, Sting sang “Do the Russians not love their children too”

    Well I put it to you: Do the Iranians (and Palestinians) not love their children too?

    I suggest Donald Rumsfeld (The US) & Jack Straw (The EU) and Israel, start from there, and not go on any Quixotic charge against windmills, or demons in ‘their’ heads.

  16. #16 Eli Rabett
    2006/04/14

    I much prefer remembering by “early days” jokes to thinking about what is happening in the Iras.

    Daniel: What has four wheels and flies?

  17. #17 llewelly
    2006/04/15

    ‘What has four wheels and flies?’

    A car whose interior is not cleaned regularly…

  18. #18 Eli Rabett
    2006/04/15

    A garbage truck: OK sometimes they have 6 wheels, 7 if you count the steering wheel. What are you some kind of scientist….

  19. #19 Mike
    2006/04/21

    So a “car” with rotting garbage & maggots has four wheels (even four or six wheel drive, if u like) and flies.

    I thought u meant as in FLY (up around and even in a loop)

    You know some old planes & even spitfires, are cars on wings, Oh but hold on they only have two wheels (or is it three). No, no steering wheels, but that 20th Century revolution, what was it called, the “joy” stick.

    “Fred Seitz is not as pure as the driven snow…”

    Neither is the driven snow. Slush on streets such a mess.

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