Terra Sigillata

Thank you for visiting our introductory post on K2 Spice and welcome readers from Maia Szalavitz at the TIME Healthland blog. The comments to which she refers can be seen by scrolling to the end of the post.

However, our blog has moved since this was posted in Feb 2010 and any further comments are closed. But if you wish to share any experiences and participate in further discussion, please visit us at our new home here.

If you’re interested in our other posts on K2 Spice or other legal highs, click here.

Finally, if you’re interested in our comments on Purdue University chemist and pharmacologist David Nichols (Dr. Dave), please click here.

ResearchBlogging.orgThis post was chosen as an Editor's Selection for ResearchBlogging.orgMy field of natural products pharmacology was founded by indigenous cultures who recognized that plants and fungi contain compounds that produce altered states of consciousness, leading to their most common use in religious ceremonies. While we may most often associate these naturally-occurring drugs with hallucinogens, the arguably most common natural product in use today is marijuana or Cannabis sativa. Indigenous to India and China, Cannabis has been the subject of increasing decriminalization worldwide due in part to its clinical, medicinal effects in multiple sclerosis, cancer, and AIDS.

K2 assortment.jpgOver the last few months, I’ve seen reports of a so-called “synthetic marijuana” being sold on the internet with stories most commonly coming from England and Germany and, in the US, from Kansas, Missouri, and Arizona. In fact, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports today that a bill has been brought before the Missouri House Public Safety Committee seeking to add this product to the state’s list of illegal drugs.

I became intrigued as to why anyone would go through the trouble of making a synthetic marijuana when the real thing is so readily cultivated worldwide, albeit illegally in most locales.

So what is it?

“Fake weed”
Synthetic marijuana, marketed as K2 or Spice, is an herbal substance sold as an incense or smoking material that remains legal in the United States. The products contain one or more synthetic compounds that behave similarly to the primary psychoactive constituent of marijuana, &Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol or THC.

i-ee94b74332a408678858d3abb563f750-220px-JWH-018.svg-thumb-150x215-40727.pngThe compound most commonly found in these products is a chemical first synthesized by the well-known Clemson University organic chemist, Prof John W Huffman: the eponymous JWH-018. Another compound, found in Spice products sold in Germany, is an analog of CP-47,497, a cannabinoid developed by Pfizer over 20 years ago.

Known as (1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole), or the more proper IUPAC name of Naphthalen-1-yl-(1-pentylindol-3-yl)methanone, JWH-018 is one of over 100 indoles, pyrroles, and indenes synthesized by the Huffman laboratory to develop cannabimimetics, drugs that mimic the effect of cannabinoids such as THC. The primary goal of these studies was to create pharmacological probes to 1) determine the structure-activity relationships of these compounds and 2) tease out the physiological function of subtypes of receptors we have for cannabinoids: the CB1 and CB2 receptors.

What does it do?
Much of the biological assessment work of Dr. Huffman’s compounds was carried out by the laboratory of Professor Billy R. Martin of the Medical College of Virginia. Dr. Martin, a native of North Carolina, was a giant in the field and sadly left us two summers ago at the all-too-young age of 65 (obituary).

According to this 2000 paper in Drug and Alcohol Dependence from the Huffman and Martin groups, JWH-018 binds to the psychotropic CB1 receptor with approximately 4 times the potency of the naturally-occurring THC. Unlike THC, which binds with almost equal affinity to CB1 and CB2 receptors, JWH-018 exhibits a 3-fold preference for CB1 receptors.

What does this mean? Well, the CB1 receptor is the primary means by which cannabinoids exert their psychotropic effects. The CB2 receptor, on the other hand, appears to be more involved in pain and inflammation and is therefore a very active area of research for new therapeutics.

So while JWH-018 has four-fold greater potency for CB1 receptors than THC in an isolated receptor binding study, how its effect compares to plain-old marijuana depends on other factors such as the relative amount in the product, how stable it is to combustion, how it’s metabolized in the body, among others.

“We don’t know much about this, but it’s going to end up killing somebody”
I’m not going out on a limb to say that this statement of Missouri Rep. Ward Frantz might be a bit hysterical at this point but I could be wrong. Human toxicology studies have not been done and the indole moiety of the drug dose raise the possibility that it may cause serotonin syndrome, a potentially fatal but relatively rare disorder. Otherwise, this concern is far overblown when compared with other drug issues in America’s heartland such as methamphetamine.

“Surprised it took this long”
It’s worth reading the backstory on Professor Huffman in this UK Guardian/The Observer article:

JWH-018 was “nothing special”, Dr Huffman remembered, “but it was one of the more potent compounds we made, and it was quite easy to make from commercially available materials. Probably the reason it has now caught on.” [...]

[...]“My biggest surprise was that this all hadn’t happened sooner,” he told me. “All it needed was somebody with a reasonable understanding of science to see the papers we had published and think, ‘Aha!'”

And with the perspective of a 77-year-old organic chemist:

“I’ve lived around the world a long time,” said Dr Huffman. “I’ve come to the conclusion that if an enterprising person wants to find a new way to get high, they’re going to do it.”

JWH-018 is however already classified as illegal in several European and Scandinavian countries. So unless JWH-018 does something different from garden-variety marijuana, outlawing it in the US will just push folks back to God’s own herb.


Aung MM, Griffin G, Huffman JW, Wu M, Keel C, Yang B, Showalter VM, Abood ME, & Martin BR (2000). Influence of the N-1 alkyl chain length of cannabimimetic indoles upon CB(1) and CB(2) receptor binding. Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 60 (2), 133-40 PMID: 10940540

Comments

  1. #1 leigh
    February 9, 2010

    i’ve only heard of this in recent months myself. if i may note, another factor in the effects of this stuff compared to marijuana is agonist efficacy. (for both immediate effect and adaptive response.) i’m not seeing anything about that on pubmed.

  2. #2 Anonymous
    February 9, 2010

    I’ve heard that a study of JWH-015 indicated some chance of carcinogenicity, but I haven’t seen the study myself and don’t know how informative that would be about JWH-018 or JWH-073 in any case.

    One thing that definitely can be problematic, especially compared to cannabis, is dosage; an average dose of JWH-018 is only 2 or 3mg, and exceeding that can get uncomfortable in a hurry.

    As for effects, JWH-018 and JWH-073 are similar to cannabis, but definitely not identical. I suspect that most people would be able to tell the difference in a double-blind study, and most would probably prefer cannabis.

  3. #3 Lorenzo
    February 10, 2010

    I’m from the UK and work in the drugs field. Spice was made illegal here on the 23rd December but to be honest it has received very little interest and, as far as I am aware, very little uptake (both pre- and post- legislation). It’s quite expensive and cannabis is so widely available, the vast majority of people can easily get hold of it and prefer the real thing as opposed to some synthetic cannabinoid.

    A drug that has absolutely exploded in use over here in the last couple of months is Mephedrone (4MMC) which is currently legal but has had a huge impact on UK society. Is this drug appearing over in the US and other places? I am just amazed at how quickly it has become a huge craze over here.

  4. #4 Anonymous
    February 10, 2010

    A drug that has absolutely exploded in use over here in the last couple of months is Mephedrone (4MMC) which is currently legal but has had a huge impact on UK society. Is this drug appearing over in the US and other places?

    It’s obtainable, but I don’t think it’s particularly widespread. Seems like most RCs are pretty much unknown in most areas.

    As for cost, that may be true of Spice, but pure JWH is much cheaper than cannabis per dose.

  5. #5 Arkero
    February 10, 2010

    Until employers and governments have widespread urine testing for this it will continue to be popular weather legal or not. Governments banning it raise awareness of it and also legitimize it as a substance that works at getting someone high.

  6. #6 Martin R
    February 11, 2010

    I wonder what sort of plant matter they’re soaking with the psychoactives to make the fake weed. Parsley, sage, rosemary or thyme?

  7. #7 Mike
    February 11, 2010

    whaaaaat $250.00 for a half zip y’all crazy

  8. #8 Ted
    February 11, 2010

    The potential carcinogenicity of the JWH compounds centers around that naphthalene ring hanging off the side. The studies with JWH-015 showed that it was being metabolized via epoxidation in vitro, a pathway known to produce carcinogenic metabolites from many polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. There’s no in vivo data to indicate whether this pathway would be utilized or any studies on that particular metabolite to indicate whether it would actually be carcinogenic. This group, however, is shared by nearly all of the JWH compounds, including the most commonly found ones, JWH-018 and -073.

    There’s some speculation that JWH-081, which has an additional methoxy group hanging off the naphthalene ring, may avoid this risk since it would be open to more metabolic pathways besides epoxidation, but no actual studies to give any data one way or the other. JWH-250 has a 2′-methoxyphenyl group in place of the naphthalene ring, so epoxide formation is probably off the table, but given the complete lack of studies on how these compounds behave (beyond the non-blinded n=1 studies of their subjective effects), there’s no telling what other adverse effects they may or may not have.

  9. #9 Anonymous
    February 11, 2010

    Thanks for the info, Ted. I’m curious to see more information about JWH-250 as research proceeds. I’ve seen JWH-200 and JWH-250 for sale, but I’ve heard essentially nothing about either in terms of health effects or recreational value.

  10. #10 Bob
    February 14, 2010

    Aye your a pack of druggies….

    Legal or not! stick to good owl beer and cigarettes.

    There NO way i’m putting all that shite in my system. :)

  11. #11 Synchronium
    February 14, 2010

    You might be interested in these anonymous toxicology reports: http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/

    Cheers!

  12. #12 wtf?
    February 14, 2010

    Druggies? Good ol’ beer and cigs? Are u serious? What do u think your good ol’ beer and cigs are? DRUGS… dangerous drugs that have killed millions of people! Just because they’re legal doesn’t make them safe! For your intelligence sake, I hope you’re referring specifically to not putting this new synthetic stuff, not real marajuana, into your system. Alcohol and cigarettes are scientifically proven to be FAR more dangerous and poisonous to the human body then marajuana… but we all knew that already right? Everyone has already known this for quite awhile and even taught their children this truth. Even before I became a bio-medical sciencetist, that was the general consensus of the public I was aware of.

  13. #13 Synchronium
    February 14, 2010

    Oh, btw, the only person with visible nipples in the Guardian article is me: http://www.synchronium.net/2009/10/13/i-got-my-tits-out-in-the-paper/

  14. #14 michael dubovick
    February 14, 2010

    scripps pharm researchers 2006 -comparing pot with leading alzheimer drugs-found marij PREVENTED THE FORMATION OF AMYLOID PLAQUE REPLICATION IN THE BRAIN-MARIJUANA PREVENTS ALZHEIMERS DISEASE-PLEASE SHARE THIS STUDY WITH EVERYONE MIDDLE-AGE OR ELDERLY-POT SAVES LIVES-IT LOWERS CHOLEST BETTER THAN STATIN DRUGS-IT IS GOD’S MIRACLE DRUG-IT IS A NATURAL ANGIOPLASTY-tHC IS NATURES PLAQUE BUSTER–DO YOU WONDER WHY IT IS ILLEGAL-SEE THE STUDY YOURSELF-google thc and alzh-ITS SHAMEFUL THE CURE IS KNOWN-BUT HIDDEN-AND MADE EVIL-BY THE REAL DEVILS-WHO PUT PROFIT BEFORE HEALTH OF AMERICANS

  15. #15 Dr Aust
    February 15, 2010

    Nice work. Funnily enough I quoted that last line of Huffman’s from the Observer that you have in the piece at the med students today – they were discussing whether tobacco or cannabis smoking was worse for you, and why people would risk taking mind-altering substances (!).

    My 72 yr old mother worries about Alzheimer’s Disease. I’d better not tell her about that last weird ALL-CAPS comment or she may be stoned out of her gourd at the next family Christmas Dinner. I tend to try and persuade her that brisk walks and crossword puzzles are the best preventive.

  16. #16 Herb
    February 16, 2010

    In my area, K2 popularity is spreading like wildfire. Many people are using it as an alternative to marijuana because K2 does not show up on drug tests, and everyone seems to be on probation nowadays.

    It’s a very interesting herb.

  17. #17 DrugMonkey
    February 17, 2010
  18. #18 Anonymous
    February 26, 2010

    I find it concerning that the ingredients listed on the package are all herbs or plant material with no mention of JWH-200 or JWH-250 or what’s been done to these ingredients. The funny thing is that when people buy weed from a dealer, rarely do they know where it came from or what’s been done to it so I’m not really sure how to justify my own concern about the label.

  19. #19 Kush Spice
    February 28, 2010

    It may turn out that the wide spread interest in this synthetic pushes lawmakers to realize the demand for the real stuff and the opportunities to legalize and tax it to help our current economic problems. California may be voting on full legalization this year.

  20. #20 cheryl buchanan
    March 8, 2010

    Well, I’ve been giving this drug some thought & think it should stay legal. It has been around for years, & if it really was dangerous, we would’ve heard more than just rumors. Actually, I haven’t smoked any weed in years, but I think it should be legalized & alcohol made illegal. For real…what good comes from drinking? Have you ever heard of a Mothers Against High Drivers? & there’s a reason for that. & here in Texas, the drinking laws are stupid. My 19 year old daughter worked as a bartender & could ‘taste test’ the mixes, but couldn’t walk into a liquor store. So, she could sell it, but not be around it. Restaurants serve alcohol, knowing full well that when the customers leave, they’re gonna drive away-which is illegal. I hate these mixed-up laws.

  21. #21 911=INSIDE JOB
    March 12, 2010

    Listen,m im a heroin attic and on ua’s for parole and having somthing legal like k2, kind spice, black mamba, ect… is a great alternative for a drug attic. I know i would be back in prison if it wasent for JWH-018, its better than nothing, or using illegal drugs and blowing a hot ua. So i say keep it legal, its suposadly a free country anyway right? But thats a whole other subject.

  22. #22 Weed Is Good
    March 15, 2010

    They will make k2 illegal. Why? Because it makes us feel good,that’s why. Nothing posted here will stop it, either. It’s ridiculous when you think about it. You can buy all the alcohol you want and get out on these roads and kill someone or yourself. How many guys you know smoke some weed or k2 and go home and beat up on their families. Now how many times have you heard of someone downing a bottle of something and doing just that? What else do they say? “Marijuana is a gateway drug.” Really? Gateway to what, my refrigerator? Cigarettes have killed millions upon millions of people in this country alone, and yet you can smoke all you want. My stepfather has been a paramedic for over 25 years and he tells me the number of dead people he has had to scrape off the road due to alcohol is enormous, but never has he had to deal with that because someone smoked a little pot and ran a family down. How many times have any of you smoked some pot, and woke up the next morning with someone you do not even know, and spent that whole day next to the toilet wishing you were dead, puking your brains out? How many times has alcohol been a major factor in someone cheating on a spouse? A lot! Ill quit ranting because as I said it will do no good. The United States will never legalize marijuana and will eventually make any thing like it illegal.

  23. #23 donLoc
    March 16, 2010

    For the fact that not everyone has the freedom to smoke the ganj pep spice/spice gold are great for people that want to get on that “level” and not risk going to jail for having to pee in a cup (and have THC show up positive in the drug screen!). Lawmakers are cracking down though so i suggest to those that are using pep spice/ spice gold stock up while you can lol. I personally have used pep spice because i had a job interview coming up and i knew they were gonna piss test me so this was cool to use until after the test. most places ive found are kinda pricey, http://www.dieselspice.com has it this stuff for pretty cheap, anyone tried ordering from there?

  24. #24 diggity
    March 26, 2010

    Orange Crescent is the best Herbal Incense on the market!

    It contains no toxic additives. Half the price of the big names and twice the quality.

    HERBRELAX.COM

  25. #25 Chemist at large...
    March 27, 2010

    I personally dislike cannabinoids so I haven’t investigated sourcing this product.

    But, hypothetically, if I were interested in a product that was about to be scheduled, I’d investigate overseas sources. China, Taiwan. It’s not difficult. Make sure you get ask for, and receive beforehand a CA (Certificate of Analysis).

    I haven’t looked up the patent on this stuff, so I don’t know the degree of difficulty or the equipment required to synth, but I’d wager 99%+ of the stuff is coming in from one of the major chem manufacturing countries, and then people are lacing whatever combustable herbs are easy on the throat & lungs- rather than someone bothering to labor over their own labware to synth.

    This is the way it was done with most other synthetic psychotropics before they went scheduled (sometimes after…). Pallets of 55gallon drum barrels of GBL,big barrels of BZP & the other phenethylamines. It’s almost always cheaper & easier to import when it’s legal. You can look at domestic sources like Sigma & Fisher (In USA)- but they’re seldom good for quantity of anything other than staple products (good for ref samples though). Most of the suppliers of “pure” k2/k3/mephedrone claiming to be domestic are undoubtedly just repackaging Asian sourced product judging by their prices.

    Look to the east for true wisdom, Grasshoppas. Many hidden treasures.

  26. #26 Mike
    March 29, 2010

    Interesting…I did a search on Google and found this website that sells a product like this, seems to be legal for now:

    http://www.pepspice.net/products.php?PARTNER=ErbalHi

  27. #27 prissyasst420
    March 29, 2010

    so i have bought it and used it and for those of us that have to be clean, it works until i can smoke weed again….

  28. #28 buyjwh018
    March 30, 2010

    Use Buyjwh018online.com they have the best quality white pure form, with zero impurities basically, just a little bit gets me ripped out of my mind. Go check it out right NOW! http://www.buyjwh018online.com the fastest, the purest, the friendliest. give them a try and realize why you havent been buying from them

  29. #29 francisco
    March 30, 2010

    ay personaly fuck spice that shit aint good for you after i had the worst high ever throwing up worst headach and supposebly it can kill u na i gonna take another chance ppl jus stick with maryjane but i aint saying dnt use it it really helps for them ppl who on probation.

  30. #30 K2spice
    March 31, 2010

    Very nice article, will share with some people. Will be interesting to see what happens to K2 over the next year or so

  31. #31 Julie Westbrook
    April 2, 2010

    I’m with you on this one, wtf! Yes I smoked the real thing, which I got in trouble for it. but, I’m not a freakin’ druggie! I was in an EF4 tornado on this very day in 2006. I was airlifted to the Springfield, Mo, At St. John’s Mercy Trauma center & I was slipping further away from my family. Anyway, after being at St. John’s trauma center I finally got home. Well… my family dr put me on Methadone, since I had been on the duragesic patches after being released from the hospital. But, I couldn’t funtion! I have 2 boys, 13 & 11, they know that I smoked it. And, yes, I know it’s illegal, but, I needed something more, kinda like a supplement. To reduce the pain that was my only option.I’ll fill you in on what all that Tornado did to me…
    *Broke both of my collar bones (had surgery on 1 of em)
    *Broke all the ribs on my left side
    *Collapsed both lungs
    *Crushed my back in 3 places
    *Had a compound fracture(I think that’s what it’s called anyway)… The lower leg bone was sticking out of my leg.
    *I have Titanium from my neck down to my ankle
    I’m not Cheech & Chong, but, it helped me with not only my pain, but my anxiety as well. (PTSD thanks to that twister). Like I said, I got in trouble for possession. But, I went & saw my Probation Officer y-day & she’s the one who told me to look this up & YOU DON’T KNOW ME! I would gladly, in less than a heartbeat, trade this titanium filled body ANY DAY! Well, no I wouldn’t ’cause I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. But, please do as the Good Book says ‘Judge not that ye be not judge. For by what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. My PROBATION OFFICER told me to look this up to help with my pain. So, if you don’t like what you’re reading… maybe you should just go to a different page! JMO *TOTALLY & COMPLETELY DISABLED STARTING AT THE AGE OF 33* But, sometimes that’s the only thing that can relieve a panic/anxiety attack. I don’t
    mean to come down on anyone, but, Catergorizing is the same as Judging. If she thinks the ones that look at this are druggies… Wasn’t she on her looking at it too, that’s how she posted a comment???? Hmmmm….

  32. #32 frank
    April 3, 2010

    In southern arizona, this is huge with people on probation.

  33. #33 Jonathan
    April 3, 2010

    This site is the best site to use…
    I have had so much success buying and then reselling from this site because the purity is so high.
    I think that anyone who is interested in this stuff should definately go checkout this site.
    They are based out of dallas and are definately reputable… They even do in person transactions for people local to dallas, texas…
    http://buyjwh018online.com
    which is AWESOME for people that are sketched out by the post office.
    http://buyjwh018online.com
    all though the first couple times I did buy from them online i got my tracking numbers the same day and got my shipment the next day and the other one on the third day since I didnt order enough to get free overnight. http://buyjwh018online.com

  34. #34 Jonathan
    April 3, 2010

    This site is the best site to use…
    I have had so much success buying and then reselling from this site because the purity is so high.
    I think that anyone who is interested in this stuff should definately go checkout this site.
    They are based out of dallas and are definately reputable… They even do in person transactions for people local to dallas, texas…
    which is AWESOME for people that are sketched out by the post office.
    all though the first couple times I did buy from them online I got my tracking numbers the same day and got my shipment the next day and the other one on the third day since I didnt order enough to get free overnight. http://buyjwh018online.com

  35. #35 Bob
    April 4, 2010

    Tried concentrated powder – not the sprayed vegetation stuff.

    It is shocking how LITTLE you need of this powder to get way high. The old adage about MJ is that “you can’t overdose” because you only get to a certain high and go no further – maybe fall asleep. With jwh-018 – you easily can take too much and get too high and really have a horrible time. Not because you are “too high” but because you feel like total crap and are simultaneously scared (at least that happened to me – a very experienced MJ partaker in years past).

    BE VERY CAREFUL is all I have to say.

  36. #36 kit
    April 23, 2010

    i used to be a pothead until my parents caught me, and now they drug test me every month so i can’t smoke weed. ive been smoking k2 for about a month and i am shocked at how high it gets me…its almost scary. if you can’t smoke weed k2 is the closest you can get, it makes you trip alot harder though and can be scary sometimes. it tastes good and dosent make you cough. when you come down you get extremely tired but you don’t feel in a bad mood like when you come down from weed. my friends who smoke weed still sometimes ask me if they can smoke it with me because its so intense, one bowl is like smoking a blunt to the face. it dosent last as long, but its really fun while your high. i kinda get the spins from it if i smoke too much and it can be uncomfortable but that usually goes away within 20 minutes or so.

  37. #37 Gigi
    April 26, 2010

    K2 Usage
    THE PRODUCT IS INTENDED TO BE USED AS “NOVELTY INCENSE” AND IS NOT INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION AND MAY BE DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH IF INGESTED. NONE OF THE PRODUCTS SOLD ARE FOR CONSUMPTION OF ANY KIND, AND SOME OF THE CONTENTS OF THE PRODUCT COULD BE POISONOUS. THE HERBALS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FDA. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. THE COMPANY AND ITS ASSOCIATES CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY ACTIONS OR CHOICES POST PURCHASE. BY PLACING AN ORDER, YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AS SET FORTH HEREIN.

  38. #38 Gigi
    April 26, 2010

    People aren’t ready the fine print. See above… I blew it up so you can read it better.

  39. #39 john d
    April 27, 2010

    ive had to stop smoking weed lately(testing) and i have to agree that this is the next best thing. its not as good as week, but for people who like to get fucked up, i suggest it. i would not smoke to much at one time though because last weekend my friend had about 2 grams of it through 6 bowls and had to go to the hospital because his heart stopped or something. if you have the choice, choose weed, but this is ok too

  40. #40 Timmy
    April 28, 2010

    I looked up some stuff and definitely found this site to give the best description:

    http://lettergram.org/?p=282#more-282

  41. #41 B
    April 30, 2010

    if they would just legalize cannabis, then people wouldn’t be resulting to using synthetic chemicals to get high. marijuana is much safer, it has been studied for years now. i do not understand why this country sales alcohol and tobacco(both of which can kill people and are highly addictive)LEGALLY, but chooses to discriminate against people who smoke it. this plant that god gave us has so many good things about it. you can use it for fuel, paper, housing, textiles, food, oil, killing cancer cells, pain relief, anti anxiety, and most of all inspiration. there are so many musicians that have used it to come up with classic masterpieces. also i don’t know if everyone remembers a young man that won 8 gold medals in the Olympics just real recently, but marijuana most definitely did not get in his way of becoming a great athlete. now… that all being put aside and marking it out and forgot about… just imagine how a tax on the plant could help boost the economy. just imagine no more people being killed over the product and people being locked up for such a petty “crime”. so in conclusion, as long as America keeps this wonderful and harmless plant illegal, people will continue to search for new and unsafe substitutes, and the war on drugs will continue, people will be killed, and locked away and the economy will continue to crumble.

  42. #42 K2 Spice
    May 2, 2010

    There have been a lot more states cracking down recently. I really enjoyed the availability of herbal incense as a legal alternative. Everyone just wants to be left alone with their favorite JWH compound without having to break the law.

  43. #43 qrskt
    May 5, 2010

    As both a user of marijuana, as well as having much experience in experimenting with a few forms of the JWH compounds, I agree with a lot of what has been said by the board. Looking for the alternative substance is what powered my first search for the analogue. I can see why you would prefer the JWH over pot, as far as potency, duration of effects, and the aestheticness of the high. I found that JWH-018 is sometimes accompanied by an overwhelming sense of anxiety, but that is with higher doses that weren’t properly measured. Overdosing is pretty horrible as well; Usually totally consciencious of your surrounding with an unensatiable desire to vomit for long periods of time; avg. 25 – 80 minutes; regardless of stomach contents, an empty stomach will result in dry heaving and acidic spit up. But that’s why dosages should be measured. As far as the “fake weed” goes, I’ve tried ‘Biohazard’ and it seems to be one of the more potent herbal supplements out there, but pricy, $45.99 for 3 grams. In conclusion, while marijuana is illegal, people are always going to be looking for other ways to get high or just smoke pot anyway. Really seems that once of the best proposed resolutions is to tax and maintain government regulations over it. It worked for alcohol and tobacco products, only makes sense that it would work in this situation as well.

  44. #44 me
    May 5, 2010

    Just wait until they find a molecule that makes you feel really good and vote Republican.

  45. #45 j
    May 7, 2010

    Cocaine HCI?

    43

    Just wait until they find a molecule that makes you feel really good and vote Republican.

  46. #46 Dawn
    May 8, 2010

    Hey Guys , What is the “synthetic cannabinoid” ? So, it means synthetic cannabinoid=marijuana ? there are a lot of packs(bonzai, jamaican gold, dream). There is synthetic cannabinoid in these packs, isn’t it ? What is the difference between synthetic cannabinoid – marijuana ? Police dogs do not understand the smell of cannabinoid ?

  47. #47 fantumofthewinds
    May 12, 2010

    I have a few questions, I have just heard of this and according to its packaging it is herbs. What herbs ? what is the mix ? is it a secret? they say its not to be smoked ? yet I see and have read here that others do this. and of course we all know everything government cant and does not control is dangerous, and of course the government wants his share of everything.and what is the K-2 everyone is speaking of? I typed in the company name and looked for the ingredients, but even the site wont tell you. so I come here to ask you.

  48. #48 Scottsworth
    May 20, 2010

    So a buddy of mine ordered a gram of jwh-018 and this stuff is ridiculous. Between 5 of us we went through about 400mg in an evening… you do the math. We started by just trying spice, and when it worked we moved up to just the compound. A little sprinkle added to the tip of a cigarette makes it like a personal joint. I highly recommend jwh but be careful, im sure overdosing is possible as others have said but none of us had any ill effects… just great times. Get it while its still legal.

  49. #49 qrskt
    May 21, 2010

    i’m afraid you are severely mistaken dude. There is almost no way that you consumed about 80mg each over the course of several hours especially without any ill side effects. Only somewhat reasonable rationale would be that you have been consistently doing jwh daily over the course of a few months and have developed a ridiculous tolerance to the product, which is still unlikely. Between 20 – 30mg you are for lack of a better word, incredibly f-ed up even over several hours. At 80mg you might be looking at a heart attack or something worse. So you do the math, numbers are too big broham.

  50. #50 marcus
    May 22, 2010

    I will tell you all right now, you can overdose on jwh very easily. The “spice” being sold over the counter in sealed containers is relatively safe, if used in moderation, but there are always going to be entrepreneurs out there hoping to capitalize on this new product/drug, especially now while it is still legal. And why not? An ambitious person can make
    as much or more then a drug dealer and not have to worry about legal issues. But beware. the people that are making it can make it any level of potency they like, simply by spraying a little more,or less of the mixture onto the herbs. I smoked weed for thirty years, and never got sick or overdosed on it. But recently, I started smoking spice as an alternative to weed mainly because it was easily available and I didn’t have to worry about getting arrested.
    On a recent trip to the town smoke shop for some spice, the owner reached under the counter and produced a small zip-lock with about 1/2 gram of spice in it and gave it to me, to sample. That night, after taking three hits of this sample, was the worst i have ever felt in my life. I had to crawl from my computer to the bathroom, where I proceeded to vomit off and on for 2-3 hours. My whole body was shaking,cold sweats,irregular heart beat,blurred vision, equilibrium completely impaired. I couldn’t stand up, no matter how hard I tried. After laying in the bathroom for about three hours, I was able to get to my bed and fall asleep. The next day, I threw the rest of the sample in the trash. I am in no way, a lightweight, when it comes to getting high. all through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, I indulged in excessive use of weed, alcohol, cocaine, meth, lsd, dust, pills, and anything else you could possibly imagine, and have never experienced anything like this. So, like I said, BEWARE. You never know what your buddy, or the local spice dealer has concocted. I would suggest that if you are going to use it, buy the spice that is manufactured with a brand name and is sealed. It could be the difference between life and death

  51. #51 AJ
    May 24, 2010

    If I had enough money to buy a few grams of spice, and I couldn’t get any cannabis – I’d just hitch-hike to california, rent a hotel for a weekend (with the money for a few Gs of spice) and get some free kindbud from the locals. Seems like a much easier way to get high. But I guess some people are just too attached to the cows, cornfields, and meth-labs of the “heartland.” LOL

  52. #52 drew
    May 24, 2010

    i’ll still stick to smoking something natural, why mess around with synthetics when we have a natural product. idiotic masses, thats why

  53. #53 K2user
    May 25, 2010

    K2 has helped with my pain and nausea caused by Chrons AND my friend going through Cancer treatments. Their are others like spice or black momba THAT IS NOT MADE THE SAME NOR IS RELATED TO K2. Test it! K2 is a blend of flowers and herbs and the JWH chem that is in it is also in the pain meds my doctor gave me. K2 works better than the pills for me and it doesn’t make you stoned stupid. I can get up and clean house instead of lay down and fight pain. Worried about what you put in your body? Really?? Look at your food labels. You are eating chemicals that are poison and toxic to your body everyday. K2 DOES NOT make you hallucinate. I wish pot wouldn’t wind me up in jail but until it’s legal I’ll keep the K2…lets hope they don’t outlaw it now also. Buy the way, it is made in the USA.

  54. #54 mlg010805
    May 25, 2010

    ready to find & smoke it !!!

  55. #55 anon
    May 26, 2010

    i smoked K2 and ive been having stomach cramps and diarreah for hours im not sure wats in it but its probly not safe

  56. #56 jane
    May 28, 2010

    i smoked this stuff the other day. i thought it was just weed. a had never smoked anything in my life so this really messed me up. i had no idea what i got myself into. i took 5 deep hits and shortly after that i started to feel it. my vision was flashing from black to picture then black then it would go back to the picture but the person was somewhere else. i was freaking out. my eyes started to roll back in my head and seemed to vibrate. The cops then showed up because they got a call. I had no idea it was legal and that it wasnt weed so i was freaking out. i went back to my friends house. i couldnt walk anywhere by myself. I was constantly twitching and jumpy then sleepy. My high lasted for about 3 and a half hours. This stuff is no joke. my nostrils seemed to start closing and my lungs were tight. i could smell it on my breath into the next day. my hands are randomly twitching now and i cant breath normally. i wish i had known better before i got myself into this mess.

  57. #57 mike
    May 30, 2010

    I just got some awesome Incense online. bought a sample pack with 5 flavors. Halfbakedincense.com. I love this stuff. Being on probation its a savior. I was a marijuana user and this is a great alternative. I recommend this site, the flavors were great!!!And bags are 3.5G :)

  58. #58 bnichol
    June 1, 2010

    I have been smoking spice for more than one year now, the problem is that it is not consistant. I have smoked spice that is amazing and some that plain sucks. Finally, I decided to make my own batch. Yep!!! So I bought 1 gram and turned it into 50 grams of spice and the quality is the best I’ve had. Buying the pure JWH-018 is the key, I bought mine from mountainindustry.com. They seem to have the best stuff. Anyway, once you make your own, you will never buy spice again. Trust me. Use coupon code L27MHJ1

  59. #59 Anonymous
    June 2, 2010

    Wonderful stuff at just the right levels it feels just like pot, get too high and think your gonna die just go to sleep and feel better when you get up, seems identical to me, I get the munches too.

    Better to regulate than prohibit, prohibition has never worked and never will, the war on drugs is a financial failure that even the gret Obama can’t tackle and what gives any human the right to extinct plants from the Earth that God has put here?

    People wake up, our government has gone too far, they extinct plants, take people’s firearms when the need them most, like after Katrina, they invade our homes to “inspect” them using an “Administrative Warrant” and then charge us with criminal conduct if our home doesn’t meet their standards, they tell women that they must bear children if they get pregnant, when will it change!

  60. #60 Spice boy
    June 8, 2010

    Ive been smokn spices now for like 2 months and ive had no problems. There is an ingrediant in there that makes you poop, I dont know which, but i dont care as long as i feel high im all good.. I do have a pretty nasty cough from it though! Never smoked the straight compound, atleast i dont think i have.. Wats w the mg talk? I thought this funk is sold by the gram? Sprinkles? Sounds like shiva crystals.. FaKe OuT SeSSioN..

  61. #61 flyboy
    June 9, 2010

    Well, I haven’t been smoking it long, but tried quite a few, from websites, ebay, ioffer, ebid, etc. and I can tell you that the only one I would buy is wildfire. I discovered it by accident really, got one and wow, I was sold on it right away. What I liked about it was the scent, the herbs, and what it does for me. I really just cannot say enough about it. If you are interested in checking it out, just go to wildfireincense.com or just google it. It isn’t out there much, but you can get it. I tried black magic, mystic, K2 (which I thought was crap), Spice (the same as K2), and many others, but wildfire incense blend was the one that did it for me.

    See, thing is, I hadn’t smoked anything in 30 years or more due to licenses or jobs, so when I found this, I was extatic now that I can actually smoke again and safely too. Well as long as I get it in a legal state anyway.

    I could go on and on about it, but it really pisses me off, that now that I found it, they are trying to make it illigal now too, know what I mean?

  62. #62 swimmyism
    June 10, 2010

    k2 summitt has some competition now called Sense Incense VERY POTENT stuff man! atleast to me they are on ebay and its $10.00 3g!! very cheap comparing the two . Just the friendly heads UP

  63. #63 Habib
    June 11, 2010

    Legalize Cannabis dammit, tax it trust me goverment you’ll make your money, its much less dangerous than alcohol, or other hard drugs so wtf, were in a depression but we are using millions of dollars putting people in prisons for cannabis, when that money could be used resoucefully to help out this depression where stuck in cause of this nonsense, we just want to get high??? Maybe Cannabis will save the Nation ???? Im a beliver everyone else should stick to this theory, and lets live with the freedome of just wanting to get high????

  64. #64 Sarah
    June 14, 2010

    Part of an article from Hastings Star Gazette, Hastings, MN, US.

    Synthetic marijuana nearly claims life of Hastings teen
    Stacy Huberty was scared, really scared when her 14-year-old son overdosed recently. Then she got mad. The “drug” he overdosed on, a new “synthetic marijuana,” she found out, and is sold legally. Her son, she said, is having enough trouble staying straight, staying off the real thing…

    The story goes on and ends with, “We talked about it (the Spice he smoked),” Stacy said. “He said it was the most horrible thing he’d ever smoked. He said he felt like he could feel the blood moving through his arms, chest and neck, and he thought he was going to die.”

  65. #65 Anon
    June 17, 2010

    does spice contain alcohol? Will it show up on SCRAM Bracelet?

  66. #66 Seth
    June 17, 2010

    This stuff is great! I have had dumb ass friends OD on it though. If you mix it with weed, the effect is amazing. Driving is really fun while on it. 98% of the time I am high, I am driving.

  67. #67 Luke
    June 19, 2010

    I, Myself smoke jwh-018, jwh-250, jwh-081. I could tell you, that all of these chemicals, have not had a negative impact on my health as far as I can tell. I’ve made homemade spice with these chems, right now, I have an RC, that sells all 3 of the above mentioned chemicals. 25$ a gram. And you could make 2 ounces. of jwh-chronic. I once made, a batch that had 1g of jwh-018 and a quater ounce of damania leaf. It was like space-spice for real. if anyone would like to more of have any questions just e-mail me… tata!

  68. #68 Fah-Q
    June 22, 2010

    All i gotta say is shit stop complsainin bout it and writing ur life out talkin bout carcinagens and affect!!! you are smoking it WTF do you expect… and to be honest K2 or legal bud is way more potent than the good ole Mary Jane yet it doesnt posses the potency of some good dro or hydroponic shit. but im sick of people makin it out to be bad and is gonna kill you………. ANYTHING YOU SMOKE (for long enough) will KILL you

  69. #69 amanda
    June 23, 2010

    my friend smoked that stuff and got real sick and was freaking out. He had seizures and eveything couldnt remember who he was or where he was at. he smoked with our other friend and he too couldt remember anything and was sick too. They both ended up in the hospital that night and one of them almost died. that stuff is stupid and can kill you!!

  70. #70 D
    June 24, 2010

    dear amanda

    you are a liar. show me proof.

  71. #71 WildFire
    June 25, 2010

    Just tired this new stuff Called WildFire EXTREME. This stuff is scary strong. They are giving out FREE samples here:
    http://freeherbalincense.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/1565256

    This had a really smooth smoke and the herbs didn’t have any stems, which I really liked. The herbal blend was nice and fluffy.

    Overall I give WildFire EXTREME 5/5

  72. #72 Lori
    June 25, 2010

    where do I find k-2 fake weed. My sister lives in Texas and has a prescription from Maine for real weed.Her new doctor in Texas has her trying k-2 for they do not honor her prescription. I am in Florida and my boyfriend smokes daily the real stuff where do I find it. my sister loves it.HELP

  73. #73 amanda
    June 25, 2010

    hey i am not a liar so scrw u.

  74. #74 M
    June 26, 2010

    hey amanda,

    people that almost die make it into the news. post a link to the article about it so we know you’re telling the truth. know why you can’t? cuz you’re a liar like D said, and cussing him out doesn’t help your case either.

  75. #75 amanda
    June 27, 2010

    wtf dude. For one people o.d on shit all the time and they dont make no paper or news. I woudnt waste my time writing a link nor would i even know. I got a lil mislead on this shit and wanted to research it. i made a lil opinion/example. And what case? Wanted to throw my story out there, I dont appreciate being called a liar!

  76. #76 JoshB
    June 27, 2010

    I’ve personally been smoking “spice” for months, and i am very pleased with it. When i first started, i was buying pep-spice. and managed to spend $1500 in one month at my local headshop. Obviously, i needed a cheaper way. so i researched it, and found a recipe that works very well, and here it is:

    1 – Dissolve 1 gram pure jhw-018 into 400mL of strong liquor (it is NOT water soluble, but is liquor soluble like marijuana (i use 160 proof vodka))
    2 – add the solution to 4-5 ounces of a smoking herb blend. (i mix damiana and marshmallow leaf)
    3 – Let dry for 4-8 hours (adding a fan helps)

    The places i order from, i spend roughly $15 to make 1 ounce. The herbs are cheap. $5-20 per pound. The liquor will run (based on size) $15-$30. The JWH (on the expensive side) is $60 a gram. That 1 gram, will make 4-5 ounces (based on how strong you want it).

    USER BE WARNED!!!
    Mixing too strong a batch (or even using the powder straight) is DANGEROUS. Too much of JWH-018 can incite a panic attack (for the guy who mentioned trying the powder and being scared). i dont have the research that shows this on-hand, however you’re on the interwebs, im sure you can find it.
    Also, i suggest a bong or water pipe. The herbs can get harsh (much more so then marijuana).

  77. #77 GODD
    July 1, 2010

    ok, so, i make my own herbal blends, and i usually put my JWHxxx or WIN 55 on tea that you buy at the store but i dose it really heavy I use 0.75g to an oz of tea, my customers are happy as shit and there have been no problems, what you guys are failing to see is that this is NOT thc, and should not be treated the same way, it hasn’t been around long enough for there to be known long term side effects. but there is alot of research showing alot of positives about certain JWH types, i cant remember which one exactly, but it’s showing very positive results in studies on the effects on alhtzhimer’s.

    second, do not use it with a bong or water pipe. JWH has a tendancy to resolidify on the coldest surface / substance it comes in contact with. so when you rip your bong your losing quite a bit.

    also it’s better to vaporize it, if i remember correctly, it doesn’t combust, or it loses it’s effectiveness once combusted.

    so if you wanna do this shit right, go grab a light bulb or some tinfoil and do ‘er up that way, that’s why i refer to it as “weedcrack” (i guess a vaporizer would work too). if you use a vaporizor, it vapes about 20 degrees hotter than doja.

    P.S.
    don’t waste your time snorting it, it don’t work.

  78. #78 GODD
    July 1, 2010

    I was refering to the straight powder form of JWH when i was talking about using foil or a bulb. not the dosed herbal blend.

  79. #79 buy k2 incense
    July 6, 2010

    DRUGS… dangerous drugs that have killed millions of people! Druggies? Good ol’ beer and cigs? Are u serious? What do u think your good ol’ beer and cigs are?Just because they’re legal doesn’t make them safe! For your intelligence sake, I hope you’re referring specifically to not putting this new synthetic stuff, not real marajuana, into your system. Alcohol and cigarettes are scientifically proven to be FAR more dangerous and poisonous to the human body then marajuana… but we already knew that already right? Everyone has already known this for quite awhile and even taught their children the truth. Even before I became a bio-medical sciencetist, that was the general consensus of the public that I was aware of.

  80. #80 k2 herbal
    July 6, 2010

    There is a lot of counterfeit k2 out there and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the cause of some of these bad experiences. Of course, tolerance comes into play as well. Some people can’t handle their booze. Hell, I get jittery off a few sips of harmless coffee….

  81. #81 Brandon
    July 10, 2010

    what is the best kind of synthetic?

  82. #82 WildFire
    July 10, 2010

    We have been offering high quality, high potency WildFire Incense Blends for awhile now and have decided to release a scary potent blend called WildFire Extreme, available in Mango, Strawberry and Cherry.

    Our blends offer a light fluffy herbal smoke that is an incredibly smooth and potent smoke.
    We DO NOT USE ANY HARSH SOLVENTS ON OUR PRODUCT.

    We now for a limited time are offering a free sample

    GET A FREE SAMPLE at:
    FreeHerbalIncense.com

    That site also offers reduced rate prices and FREE SHIPPING on all paid orders.

    Try it out, you will not be disappointed.
    We offer a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee and FREE Shipping on all paid orders

  83. #83 Usernamehasbeendeleted
    July 11, 2010

    I cant see myself smoking this K-2 or this other product Blackmagic. It just doesnt seem right for some reason. i mean cost is definitely great but the concept of smoking incense or spice just sounds awful. im open to the concept and making this illegal is probably stupider than the already illegal marijuana but i just cant see myself doing it.

  84. #84 bob
    July 11, 2010

    does spice contain alcohol? Will it show up on SCRAM Bracelet

  85. #85 jami
    July 11, 2010

    Me and my girl smoke about 2-3 joints of k2 spice everyday.We’ve tried sonic,spush,;blazed and regular k2 spice.I think spush is the best I’ve had its 10$ at shells gas station.So far we haven’t had any thing weird happen or any bad side affects yet hopefully we wont cuz so far its been a potheads dream. Alcoholics can legaly have their alcohol, so why can’t us smokers legaly have the same right?

  86. #86 A
    July 12, 2010

    Remember use in moderation this is still a new drug.
    For cheap prices I goto eKoms-Top {dot} com

  87. #87 Moth Eaten Deer Head
    July 13, 2010

    A person should be able to stick anything or do anything to ones body as they feel if not directly causing any damage to anyone else. its not only our right. IT OUR BODY! If I wanted to shoot up heroin,crack,and paint thinner up my arm no one has a right to tell me I can’t. It’s ridiculous how bills and laws are passed because it goes against some peoples opinionated beliefs.

  88. #88 jw
    July 18, 2010

    Watch out for this stuff !! I tried some other incense/spice and everything was good. I don’t know if it was too much or not applied correctly but I OD’ed on this. I’m talking LSD style buzz. Bad experience and I’ve been around. I want to warn everyone! I am not an amateur and this experience was BAD. Try very little amounts of other items, but steer clear of K2.

  89. #89 Interested User
    July 19, 2010

    I have been a daily pot smoker for the last year or so and when I heard about K2 spice I decided to give it a try because I don’t like that Pot is illegal and I could lose my job over it. First time I smoked a very small amount of the K2 Blonde and I got mellow high with the exception being I noticed that during my high (1 1/2 hours or so) I kept having reoccurring thoughts of hurting myself.

    A couple days later I smoked a bowl of K2 Blonde. I was on my computer and within an hour I had the overwhelming urge to vomit, I couldn’t even make it out of my chair and vomited on the floor in my room, then stumbled to the bathroom where I lost it on the floor again. I was vomiting for about 30 minutes when I got a moment of clarity, I got to my feet and looked in the mirror after drinking some water and my pupils literally were the size of eye. It was totally freaky and I flushed my K2 that moment then fell asleep on the bathroom floor.

    Nothing at all like Pot. I’ve smoked pot till I passed out and never felt like throwing up, never wanted to hurt myself. Marijuana is peaceful, K2 spice is not.

  90. #90 ispsales
    July 19, 2010

    Rules already exist… See the FDA vs. K2, search YouTube for, K2 not 4U, youtube.com/watch?v=TxyVdD4d6Vo

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