Dr. Myers was profiled by a creationist journal. The rest of us have to be content with that sort of attention from trolls.
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Joshua Rosenau spends his days defending the teaching of evolution at the National Center for Science Education. He is formerly a doctoral candidate at the University of Kansas, in the department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology. When not battling creationists or modeling species ranges, he writes about developments in progressive politics and the sciences.
The opinions expressed here are his own, do not reflect the official position of the NCSE. Indeed, older posts may no longer reflect his own official position.
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« Is a science textbook adequate if science comes second? | Main | McCaskill for Senate »
Jealousy
Category: Chatter
Posted on: August 21, 2006 3:16 PM, by Josh Rosenau
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Comments
Myers remarks about religion classify him as a bigot, regardelss of the fallacies of "creationsism".
Worse, he is employed by the taxpayers.
His conflation of science with atheism, sets back the cause of science.
Who knows how much damage he has done? If jokers like him had the class of say, a Stephen J. Gould, the battle would have been over long ago.
Posted by: JB | August 21, 2006 6:59 PM
The cause of science is truth and religion just doesn't fit in. Atheism and science go hand in hand.
Class won't win the 'battle' or the war. It's perseverance and the guts to stick to the truth. PZ has plenty of both and proves that it doesn't pay to be nice to the crazy Christians who are trying to warp the entire world with their lies. If you think Gould could have won this, why didn't he in his lifetime?
Posted by: Rachel | August 21, 2006 9:24 PM
Thats an interesting admission as to your BELIEFS, Rachel, that atheism and science go hand in hand.
As Josh and the gang at KCFS love to maintain for public consumption, there is no necessary relation between atheism and science.
But, thats for public consumption, its not your real agenda, as you have just admitted.
As to why Gould didn't win in his lifetime, it was because he was a lone voice, with all the spew from idealouges like Dawkins and Dennet, he faced set backs at every turn.
And its not a question of just being nice...its about truth.
And the truth is that "science" does not establish atheism...scientific theories are provisional and subject to change and depend on a host of presuppositions.
You seem to have confused methodological naturalism with philosophical naturalism, a distinction Barbara Forrest loved to maintain and in fact testified to under oath at the Dover trial.
After all, your hero Judge Jones ruled in the Kitzmiller decison that evolution in no way denigrated the idea of a creator.
Of course, that was just public concumption, right?
[edited to correct a misidentification of another commenter.]
Posted by: BA | August 22, 2006 3:18 AM
BA, I'm not going to let arguments from another forum spill over here. As far as I can tell, no one named Robson has commented here, so I corrected that obvious error in your post.
Beyond that, trolling comments about people's heroes or their "real agenda" are inappropriate.
Posted by: Josh | August 22, 2006 8:45 AM
But what about Rachel's comment that science and atheism go hand in hand, Josh?
BA has a point, that is something you have consistently denied. I.E., it was my understanding that science makes no statement re atheism or theism
It proceeds by methodological naturalism, but certainly not by philosophical naturalism, as Barbara Forrest quite ably explained we she spoke on campus back in February. In fact, I think you were there.
Posted by: Goldstein | August 22, 2006 8:54 AM
Why don't you address your questions to Rachel, rather than me?
It's true that I think religion and science are orthogonal. But I think religion can walk hand-in-hand with science, as can atheism. There's a worthwhile distinction to be made there.
Posted by: Josh
| August 22, 2006 11:13 AM
I think theism and science go hand in hand. I personally believe that science describes the universe as God intends it to be. But this is my personal belief, not some kind of agenda.
Clearly, it all depends on the viewpoint of the individual observer.
Posted by: Jeremy Mohn | August 22, 2006 11:40 AM
Actually, Mohn, of course science and theism go hand in hand. The scientific worldview grew out of a Christian concept of the universe as one that man could understand because he was created in the image of God.
Scientists like Oppenheimer, Philosophers like Whitehead, and historians like Butterfield all knew this.
It is only in our time that the fundamentalistic atheists like Dawkins, Dennet and that whole gang have foisted off the view that Rachel assets...that atheism goes hand in had with science.
Further, I frankly do not believe that you have no agenda.
Posted by: Goldstein | August 22, 2006 12:24 PM
I have never claimed to have no agenda. I think we all have a personal agenda, whether we want to admit it or not.
I just pointed out that my statement that "science describes the universe as God intends it to be" is not my agenda, it is my personal belief.
This is another worthwhile distinction to be made.
Posted by: Jeremy Mohn | August 22, 2006 12:52 PM
Science is a tool. Like any tool, it can be put to many purposes, some theistic, some atheistic, many non-theistic and entirely uninterested in those questions.
Jeremy is entirely right to note that it's very worth while to make the distinction between personal beliefs and personal agendas. Not the same thing.
Posted by: Josh
| August 22, 2006 1:43 PM
YOu got it pinned Josh. Science is a tool, which can be used for many purposes.
Thus, to say it goes hand in hand with atheism is, at best, very misleading.
Posted by: Goldstein | August 23, 2006 8:48 AM