White Coat Underground

A hat-tip to my buddy Abel over at TerraSig for keeping this story alive and inspiring me to chime in.  –PalMD

It’s no secret that I find the anti-vaccination crowd to be abhorrent. The public’s health is the first victim, followed closely by individual patients and parents struggling with individual health decisions. I cannot fault patients for making bad decisions—the anti-vaccination movement has a very effective propaganda arm. Folks like Jenny McCarthy have a large audience and make no secret of their desire to see infectious diseases increase in others:

I do believe sadly it’s going to take some diseases coming back to realize that we need to change and develop vaccines that are safe. If the vaccine companies are not listening to us, it’s their f___ing fault that the diseases are coming back. They’re making a product that’s s___. If you give us a safe vaccine, we’ll use it. It shouldn’t be polio versus autism.

These folks are so focused on their own quasi-religious delusions that they can no longer properly evaluate reality.  That would be fine if they lived in isolated caves away from electronic media.  But they don’t.

I’ve also made no secret of my contempt for bad reporting about science and vaccines, and lately I’ve been pleasantly surprised by some good reporting, including pieces by Matthew Herper and Amy Wallace.  Amy is now learning something many of us in the blogosphere already knew—antivaccine nuts are a crowd of hate-filled, delusional, immoral freaks who thrive on lies and violent rhetoric.  All of us who write about vaccines get hate mail.  Amy has been getting hate-mail and hate-tweets, and being a good reporter, is writing about it.  
Fear and intimidation is the enemy of  science.  But the anti-vax crowd doesn’t care about dialog; since they have no science to support their delusions, all they are left with vitriolic spittle.  The anti-vaxxers are fundamentally immoral.  They, like many fundamentalists, want us all to suffer for their faith, and heretics and apostates must burn.  
Science is amoral, and public health strives for morality.  The anti-vaccination movement can claim neither the cold, dispassionate mantle of science, nor the altruistic strivings of medicine.  They aren’t just good and wrong, they are bad and wrong.  Anyone who has ever worked for the public good through promotion of vaccination has suffered their wrath, and many of us wear that wrath as a badge of honor.

Comments

  1. #1 BigHeathenMike
    October 28, 2009

    Hell yes.

  2. #2 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Maybe if you take Mercury out of vaccines, you won;t get so much hate mail. Ever think about that? Isn’t that a simple enough request? As long as Mercury remains in the vaccines, I’ll not be taking one either.

    Further advice to normal people reading this. If for some reason you are illegally forced to be vaccinated, make sure you take [Ed. redaction of dangerous advice] A little useful advice to have in case the nuts force us to take something against our will. http://www.naturalnews.com was my source for the killing of the forced vaccine. It seems to work. Google it. Also, if you are forced to be vaccinated, be sure to undergo Chelation therapy either through IV or pills, or suppositories immediately afterwards and if at all possible before vaccination to flush out any Mercury that might be lurking in that government controlled vaccine.

  3. #3 PalMD
    October 28, 2009

    Re: above:

    Res ipsa loquitur

  4. #4 Storkdok
    October 28, 2009

    Thank you once again, PAL, for a truthful, hardhitting blog on vaccination and the pseudoscientific antivaxxers. Rational parents of autistic children applaud you.

  5. #5 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Here are some things you can take if you are forced to take a mercury filled vaccine to prevent ADD, autism, etc.:

    Glutathione, L-Methionine, and L-Cysteine all help detox harmful metals.

    Selenium and Vitamin E neutralizes the effects of mercury.

    Apple pectin aids in removing toxic metals from the body.

    Garlic is an effective detoxifier. So is kelp and alfalfa.

    Vitamin C helps remove metals and strengthens the immune system.

    Lecithin protects brain cells from mercury poisoning.

    These vital supplements may help prevent autism and ADD in children who are forced by the government to get unsafe and useless vaccines. I do recommend getting vaccinated for smallpox and polio, but hepatitis B vaccines have primarily been the culprits of mercury poisoning. Kids donlt need this shot anyway.

    By all means, do not give your girls Gardisil. I am not sure how many girls have died from taking that vaccine, but one is too many. STDs are completely preventable. Keep you pants zipped or face the consequences of your sin. Simple isn’t it?

  6. #6 Jon H
    October 28, 2009

    Dr Stupid wrote: ” STDs are completely preventable. Keep you pants zipped or face the consequences of your sin.”

    What if your husband’s having an affair and doesn’t tell you?

  7. #7 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Autism

    http://www.naturalnews.com

    http://www.generationrescue.org/

    For those of us who refuse to deny the truth.

    A Redskins Cheerleader is the latest to be harmed by a flu vaccine. Twenty five year old Desiree Jennings received her flu shot on August 23, 2009. Over the next few weeks, she lost the ability to walk and to talk normally. Whenever she eats, her body convulses, and she often blacks out. Another story is of a navy sailor who died coughing up blood the next day after taking the swine flu vaccine. Need I add more stories. There are thousands more like these available. let me know when you will start beliving and I will stop submitting the stories of killer vaccines.

    http://www.generationrescue.org/gr-community/vaccine-injury.php

  8. #8 History Punk
    October 28, 2009

    “STDs are completely preventable”

    Not if your mom is an AIDS denialist and refuses to take the necessary medications before you are born.

    Or your faithful husband/wife/partner brings something home from something strange.

    or you’re a victim of sexual assault.

  9. #9 History Punk
    October 28, 2009

    Interesting factiod (which I promise to cite when I get home)

    It cost something like $50 to vacccinate a kid back in 2000. It cost 25,000 to treat a kid each year for a complications of a vaccine treatable disease.

  10. #10 military wife
    October 28, 2009

    “Dr. Smart” has to be Orac’s sockpuppet. Please tell me it’s not a person who actually believes all that crap.

    Where exactly am I supposed to find “Dr. Smart’s” recommended smallpox vaccine anyway?

  11. #11 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Sounds like a personal problem to me. Fine go ahead and take Gardasil for yourself, but a young girl should not take this extremely dangerous and useless vaccine. It has killed more girls than it has helped.

    Sounds like your husband needs counseling. Usually when your wife/husband has an affair you are not told by him/her Otherwise it’s not an affair. Now who’s stupid?

    Technically if you sleep with someone you are not married to, you have committed adultery already.

    The anti-vaccine movement is not that large anyway. It’s a small part of the population. We must really be onto something important for you to get so defensive about such an insignificant movement.

    Maybe we should invent a anti-liberal vaccine. It would really be testosterone treatments. Give you guys something you need.

    Actually i have wanted to give a faming homo a testosterone treatment along with some herbal chelation treatments and see if he goes straight. The whole “born gay” crap really gets under my skin. If someone is born that way, it may be bacuse of chemicals in the meat processing or the water. It is certainly not natural. Maybe there is a cure, besides the Bible. Mostly it’s phsychological. Most gay behavior can be triggered by childhood hurts. The other is by pure sin and choice alone. Maybe a subconcious choice, but a choice nevertheless.

    http://www.naturalnews.com

  12. #12 T. Bruce McNeely
    October 28, 2009

    Dr. TrollBoi:
    Ethyl mercury is not in any vaccines except multi-dose flu vaccine, fucknut.
    If you don’t even know that, why the hell should I consider anything else you say?

  13. #13 T.Bruce McNeely
    October 28, 2009

    We must really be onto something important for you to get so defensive about such an insignificant movement.

    Yeah. Murder.

  14. #14 History Punk
    October 28, 2009

    “I do recommend getting vaccinated for smallpox and polio”

    Why the fuck would you get a vaccine for a disese that vaccines have dispatched? Seriously, even Big Pharma says skip the small pox vaccine.

  15. #15 KittysBitch
    October 28, 2009

    Wow
    A Bible thumping, homophobic, antivaxxer?
    Let’s see…

    “By all means, do not give your girls Gardisil. I am not sure how many girls have died from taking that vaccine…”

    and a couple posts later…

    ” It has killed more girls than it has helped.”

    Hmmm?

    And my favorite…

    “Actually i have wanted to give a faming homo a testosterone treatment”

    I bet you have. You should work on making your sexual innuendoes a little more subtle sweetheart. The boys will appreciate it more.

  16. #16 Dave the Hospitalist
    October 28, 2009

    Dr. Smart is a cranial-rectally inverted git.

  17. #17 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Here is the whole plot of the vaccine movement:

    http://revealedtruth.66ghz.com/tag/desiree-jennings

  18. #18 Donna B.
    October 28, 2009

    I was very upset when my pregnant daughter refused the flu vaccine she and her 2 yr old had waited in line for because it contained thimerosol (sp?). The 2 yr old has had all her regularly scheduled vaccines, so it’s not a general aversion to vaccines driving my daughter’s decision.

    She has been unnecessarily frightened by overly emotional print and internet discussions, IMHO. She is also influenced by overactive pregnancy hormones. Where a small threat is identified, she takes excessive measures to prevent it happening to her and her unborn baby.

    She is also especially susceptible because getting pregnant has not been easy for her. Sad as it may seem, her unborn child is much more precious to her than the unborn child of a woman who can get pregnant “at the drop of a hat”.

    She’s an intelligent woman with advanced degrees in mathematics, so using “logic” on her hormonally influenced decisions doesn’t work well. She’s already thought it through and decided on what she thinks is the least risk for her and her children, no matter how much grandma disagrees.

    And… grandma has committed herself to the role of advice only. I do not make decisions for my adult children and their children. (With the exception that grandma can occasionally give an extra cookie…)

  19. #19 Katharine
    October 28, 2009

    Oh fuck. Just what I need to see when the large amount of stupid I have to put up with from other people every day has possibly made me relapse into depression a bit (a slightly different reason than why I was depressed the one time before).

    Dr. ‘Smart’ is not only not smart and probably not a PhD or an MD, but he’s probably also a closet gay. A substantial proportion of fundies are. Wonder if he’s porking or being porked by someone and feeling subversive and ‘bad’ right now because he’s doing something he thinks is wrong, but which isn’t (though I don’t know who would let themselves toss Dr. Pseudo-Smart-Actually-A-Whinging-Dumbass’s salad; he’d probably be another dumbass).

    If you don’t have a fucking grasp of the science, go fuck yourself, because you don’t stand a chance, nor should you, in the debate. Don’t come to a battle of wits empty-handed.

    In conclusion, fuck you, Dr. ‘Smart’, you whinging pimple-dick walking inadequate brainless dildo.

  20. #20 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Katherine, or should I call you catheter, how dare you talk to me that way woman. How many pine cones have you porked today? Maybe you are have droopy butthole disorder caused by your incredible ability to spray shit all over everything. maybe that was a pinaepple or cactus and not a pine cone. You communist fascist baby killing freak of nature. Go back into your pathetic mother’s butthole – woman/man/thing. When you get in there, how about turning around and coming out properly and preffereably in 1940. Learn some manners idiot. You people have a alot to learn. You think you can just talk to conservatives like that and get away with it. You probably do get away with it most of the time, but I don;t let it pass me by. When you start with me, I consider it war, be prepared for the fight of your life!

    Maybe if you act like a lady and not a freak, you’ll get talked better to. Unless you are one of those man woman people better known as fascist militant feminists. If so, nevermind, feminists usually are more like the men they condemn than they like to admit.

    EXcuse you missy, but the conversation was about vaccines and their deadly and unsafe components, not freakshows.

  21. #21 Denice Walter
    October 28, 2009

    ((Citing *NaturalNews*? Isn’t there some sort of a rule at this blog about citing “NaturalNews”? ))From Health Ranger.org.: Mike Adams created NaturalNews in 2003 as a source of “unbiased”(he said it, not me)”natural health information”.According to his bio,Adams, a formerly unhealthy “software executive”, with family roots in Big Pharma,was overweight and had type 2 diabetes; he changed his evil ways and morphed into the *Health Ranger*.He sells various products(BetterLife Goods),has a “non-profit”, runs “Truth Publishing”,raps, and resides in lovely, green,toxin-free, health-freedom friendly Ecuador.For the life of me, while I could find data about his cholesterol, fasting blood sugar,body fat %, weight,etc.,I couldn’t find anything listing his educational background.He and Gary Null often cite each other’s health “journalism”(Partners in…um, health?).I rest my case.

  22. #22 PalMD
    October 28, 2009

    OK, I think he’s gone all Poe on us. I think it’s time to dump him.

  23. #23 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Oh yeah, Katherine, take some 5-HTP for your depression. it’s better than the prescription drugs that make you fat, if you are not already.

    By the way I am a Dr. of HOMOpathic medicine. I recommend you take two extra large doses of southern white male respect and call me in the morning.However, you still need to take an extra large does of know your role taken with a full glass of persimmon in order to squeeze the droopy butthole back imto place and If you are still no better I recommend vacuuming the floor and frying some chicken until your depression goes away.

  24. #24 Katharine
    October 28, 2009

    Oh, now you’re a SEXIST homophobic racist antivaxxer!

    Suck on this, needledick:

    Articles published in the JAMA have solidly disproven the link between thimerosal and autism. That’s one down.

    Second, squalene, another of the chemicals you morally bereft, subhuman pieces of shit like to whinge about, is widespread in the human body. It’s in olive oil. OH NOES, BETTER AVOID THE ITALIAN FOOD.

    Third, chelation therapy without a target kills.

    Fourth, no. Just no. If you knew ANYTHING about organic chemistry, you anencephalic cretin, you’d know all those chemicals DON’T ‘detox’ or whatever dumb shit you think they do.

    Fifth, I don’t recall any women dying from Gardasil.

    Sixth, you haven’t even presented a fucking argument, just made ad-hominems up and down, and whatever you’ve said has been so fucking proofless and false that there’s no doubt you make pond scum look like Einstein.

    Thanks for reminding me even more why I jump for joy when I hear about a fundie croaking.

    Sorry about your tiny penis, by the way.

  25. #25 Brian X
    October 28, 2009

    Dr. Smart:

    You and your fellow antivaxers are the freakshow. Although you’re doing an especially blatant job of it being a misogynist pigfucker. (That is, assuming the average pig doesn’t have too much dignity to allow you to fuck it.)

  26. #26 T. Bruce McNeely
    October 28, 2009

    Non-Dr. Non-Smart:
    I just noticed that the only posters that you abuse personally are the women.
    You have a problem.
    Get help.

  27. #27 Katharine
    October 28, 2009

    In short, non-Dr. non-Smart, you’re not even fit to iron MY shirts or make ME a sandwich. What woman would have the fucking lack of self esteem necessary to stoop to asking you to do that?

  28. #28 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    Okay, katherine, go make supper and calm down. Go take your meds and when you wake up, I’ll warm you soem peas and chicken that you made for me at supper last night. The reason you think my penis is so small is bcause your butthole is so enlarged. Or was that your mouth? I never can tell the difference with a leftist population control baby killer freak of nature with an enlarged butthole and shrinking brain. Maybe you left some mayo around the wrinkes of your butthole last night. Is that why you are so grumpy? Did you dog poo all over your new face or is it supposed to look like that?

    Wow, nevermind, don;t take out the curlers and makeup.

    Go make supper for your husband, if you are able to find one. Go vacuum the floor. Go cook some chicken and shut up already. And you already know where to put the eggs right?

    Go lay an egg you filthy beast. Learn some respect woman. Otherwise, you’ll get no repsect. You uncivilized fascist butthole baby.

    I have scentifically come to the conclusion that all leftist fascism marxist ugly drooping butthole freaks were all born butthole babies. Maybe that’s why your toothless mouth resembles a swollem unwashed and well reamed out butthole.

    Go cook supper woman. Sorry, catheter, you don’ t impress me with your leftist fascism militant anti-male shit. No I am not any more sexismt than you militant feminists and your hatred of men. Now, what’s for supper?

  29. #29 Dianne
    October 28, 2009

    She has been unnecessarily frightened by overly emotional print and internet discussions, IMHO. She is also influenced by overactive pregnancy hormones. Where a small threat is identified, she takes excessive measures to prevent it happening to her and her unborn baby.

    Oh, (explicative deleted)! The H1N1 influenza has a seriously high mortality rate in pregnant women. Seasonal influenza isn’t exactly a walk in the park for a pregnant woman with already compromised immune and lung function either. Please remind her that not taking the vaccine she is taking a serious risk with her own life and the life of her unborn child. (Not to mention the 2 year old and the 2 year old’s mother.) Yes, I’m sure you’ve said this already, but I can’t help myself. A pregnant woman with a small child not vaccinating is just scary.

  30. #30 Dr. Smart
    October 28, 2009

    I didn’t start this war with the so called women on this site. One called catherter started it. I dislike anti-male militants.

    _____________________________

    Katherine, your freakshow ends now. Go sow up your dripping butthole. The reason thought my penis was so small is bacuse your butthole is so droopy.

    Go cook some chicken and take some civility lessions, if anti-male freaks are capable of learning.

    ________________

    Eeryone else:

    Fine, I’ll leave your pathetic excuse for aso called “science” website. Don;t blame me becuase you were born butthole babies.

    As for taht filthy vermin termite terdlicker katherine, go eat terds and cook my supper. When you’re done, go take a bath and clean that butthole up. You still have mustard all over the edges. Wait, that’s your mouth. Sorry i couldn;t tell the difference.

    I’ll take some fried chicken, butterbeans, homemade rolls, a glass of Pepsi, I mean Coke, pepsi is a homodispenser nowwadays. Oh and I would like a bowl of ice cream too. By the way, you forgot to put some ammonia on your droopy butthole.

    Get busy.

  31. #31 Isis the Scientist
    October 28, 2009

    These folks are so focused on their own quasi-religious delusions…

    Hey now.

    BTW, I LOVE the idea of Orac having a sockpuppet. He’d never do it and, even if he did, it wouldn’t be this cockweaseldouchemonkey, but the idea of an Orac sockpuppet thrills me like you can’t believe.

    Dr. Smart is clearly a troll. The good news is that he will probably get pertussis and die soon.

  32. #32 DrSmart
    October 28, 2009

    Katherine,

    See # 22 one more time. You seriously suffer from delerious aparitions of the butthole. Please, fry some chicken and call me in the morning. Persimmon juice will fix the droopy butthole, but you have to let go of the pineapple and cactus or it will just get bigger.

    Again, a prescription of knowyourroleandfrysomechicken (500 mg) will cure you.

    Order:

    Fried Chicken
    butterbeans
    corn
    homemade rolls
    ice cream

    get busy and yuo will be cured of your anti-male hatred.

    Pay the nurse $20 on the way out. If you are poor and get grovernment handouts like some lazy people, I can set up a droopy butthole action payment plan for you. You pay me $1 a month plus intersst until you can sit upright again and go back to work. Please leave the fruit alone though. It’s only good for you if you insert it in the right end.

    I am a Dr of HOMOpathic medicinne, I can help you, but I cannot perform a miracle. See God for that.

  33. #33 drsmart
    October 28, 2009

    Katherine,

    See # 22 one more time. You seriously suffer from delerious aparitions of the butthole. Please, fry some chicken and call me in the morning. Persimmon juice will fix the droopy butthole, but you have to let go of the pineapple and cactus or it will just get bigger.

    Again, a prescription of knowyourroleandfrysomechicken (500 mg) will cure you.

    Order:

    Fried Chicken
    butterbeans
    corn
    homemade rolls
    ice cream

    get busy and yuo will be cured of your anti-male hatred.

    Pay the nurse $20 on the way out. If you are poor and get grovernment handouts like some lazy people, I can set up a droopy butthole action payment plan for you. You pay me $1 a month plus intersst until you can sit upright again and go back to work. Please leave the fruit alone though. It’s only good for you if you insert it in the right end.

    I am a Dr of HOMOpathic medicinne, I can help you, but I cannot perform a miracle. See God for that.

  34. #34 Katherine
    October 28, 2009

    I’m sorry Dr. Smart. I have your chicken ready now and I repaired my droopy butthole. I’m a new person now. I am no longer a feminist man hater or a vaccine slurper mercury burper. Sorry for the trouble I caused you. I hope you like the chicken I cooked for you and the way I vacuumed the floor. It’s nice and clean and not cluttered with unwashed clothes like other man haters’ houses. I really have changed. I’m am sorry for calling you those terrible names. I hope you won’t hate me too much for the evil that I committed. I should have known better.

    Katherine.

  35. #35 Kathryn
    October 29, 2009

    One of our pregnant faculty members got pneumonia from flu, most likely H1N1, at the start of the semester before you could even get seasonal flu vaccine. She was very sick and still hasn’t completely recovered.

    At least she’s recovering. An asthmatic faculty member died of pneumonia after H1N1.

  36. #36 David Marjanović
    October 29, 2009

    Just for the record…

    Glutathione, L-Methionine, and L-Cysteine all help detox harmful metals.

    These molecules contain sulfur atoms and thus bind indiscriminately to any heavy-metal atoms/ions… if you overdo it, they bind to the iron in your blood, I suppose.

    Selenium and Vitamin E neutralizes the effects of mercury.

    How does that work?

    Especially keep in mind that selenium is essential in small amounts, but in large amounts it’s horribly toxic. Don’t overdo it. Vitamin E, too, is harmful in large doses.

    Apple pectin

    Pectin is pectin is pectin. Molecules don’t come with a label that says “I once was part of an apple”.

    aids in removing toxic metals from the body.

    How is that supposed to work?

    Garlic is an effective detoxifier. So is kelp and alfalfa.

    How?

    Vitamin C helps remove metals

    Can’t imagine how.

    and strengthens the immune system.

    Bullshit.

    Yes, I know that Linus Pauling, the only person so far to have won two undivided Nobel prizes, has said “it strengthens the immune system”. Problem is, the poor man had no idea of biochemistry or immunology. (It’s very far away from the disciplines he got his Nobel prizes in, you see.) “To strengthen the immune system” doesn’t even mean anything! Learn some immunology, and you’ll see why.

    What happens if you take the insanely large doses of vitamin C that Pauling deludely recommended? If your kidneys work, you just piss them out again. If they don’t work, you die – there is one known case of vitamin C poisoning; it was a man with a kidney problem who followed Pauling’s advice.

    It’s not just bullshit, it’s dangerous bullshit.

    Lecithin protects brain cells from mercury poisoning.

    That sounds ridiculous. Please explain how it’s supposed to work.

    Actually i have wanted to give a faming homo a testosterone treatment along with some herbal chelation treatments and see if he goes straight. The whole “born gay” crap really gets under my skin. If someone is born that way, it may be bacuse of chemicals in the meat processing or the water. It is certainly not natural.

    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    Yet another little moron who believes everything is restricted to humans!

    No, trollboy. Homo- and bisexuality have both been discovered in every single vertebrate species* that has been watched long enough. In humans, male homosexuality correlates to relative finger length (the longer your ring finger compared to your index finger, the straighter you are), runs in families to a degree, and correlates to elevated female fertility in the same families.

    And when exactly did you decide to be straight…?

    Besides, what evidence is there that homosexual men have lower testosterone levels? You do know about the ancient Greeks and the idea they had of warriors?

    Stop talking about things you don’t know anything about. You’re just making yourself ridiculous.

  37. #37 Citizen Deux
    October 29, 2009

    I was saddened to listen to CNN yesterday when they resurrected the thimerasol issue in regards to the flu vaccine with NO context, background or reference. They completely abrogated their journalistic responsibility by ignoring the current state of science. The whole piece was deplorably dumb.

  38. #38 rob
    October 29, 2009

    Aye, vaccinate and you may die. don’t vaccinate, and you’ll live…at least until contracting a preventable disease. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin’ to trade aLL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell ignorant anti-vaxxers that they may take children’s lives, but they’ll never take…OUR VACCINATIONS!

  39. #39 Kim
    October 29, 2009

    I’m amused that the advice to undergo chelation therapy ASAP was apparently not the dangerous part of that first Dr. Smart post…not so amused by the hate that spewed out of that character a bit later on.

    A few bloggers I enjoy for their recipe and exercise postings have turned out to be vaccine skeptics or worse. It’s always disappointing and a bit shocking. Maybe as a person who grew up aware of scarlet fever and polio and grateful that they were not my concern I have a blind spot, but I just can’t get around this attitude once I’ve seen it.

    What I don’t get about vaccine skeptic bloggers in my general tax and educational bracket is this conviction that vaccination — or at least the flu shot — is a “scam”. Most people seem to have access to a free or subsidized flu shot if they look for it, and while I recognize that doesn’t mean the manufacturer goes without recompense it’s still a pretty poor way to run a scam. But the idea that maybe the flu vaccine is, y’know, promoted by people and organizations who are actually motivated by wanting to see fewer people get sick is apparently too far out there.

  40. #40 JustaTech
    October 29, 2009

    Wow, “Dr Smart” makes cooler and Dawn seem intelligent and reasonable. Which is to say that my computer has started smoking from the overwhelming stupid.

    And frankly, I don’t consider a woman driving her car into a telephone pole and dying because she fainted the be a “vaccine caused” death.

    I am concerned that “DrSmart” thinks that we should get vaccinated for smallpox, as this is no longer found in the wild. In fact, I would consider it a threat of bioterrorism.

  41. #41 Donna B.
    October 29, 2009

    #27, Dianne & #28, Kathryn — At least I can vent my frustration here. And can enjoy seeing maroons like Dr. “Smart” get spanked.

    How they can be so stupid to endanger so many people is beyond me.

  42. #42 micheleinmichigan
    October 29, 2009

    History Punk. – When I want to surprise a doctor I show them my six year old daughter’s small pox vaccine scar. She received the vaccine in Kazakhstan before we adopted her.

    Apparently there was a small pox outbreak in Kaz in 1971 that some attribute to bio weapon development (Kaz was center of USSR military testing). Who knows why they were still vaccinating in 2003.

    Sorry, not post related, just thought it relavent to your comment.

  43. #43 Raging Bee
    October 29, 2009

    “Unsafe and useless vaccines?” that phrase alone flushes Dr. Hater’s credibility down the toilet (especially when he concedes, immediately afterword, that some vaccines are indeed safe and useful), even before we get to this gem of win:

    Actually i have wanted to give a faming homo a testosterone treatment along with some herbal chelation treatments and see if he goes straight. The whole “born gay” crap really gets under my skin. If someone is born that way, it may be bacuse of chemicals in the meat processing or the water. It is certainly not natural. Maybe there is a cure, besides the Bible. Mostly it’s phsychological. Most gay behavior can be triggered by childhood hurts. The other is by pure sin and choice alone. Maybe a subconcious choice, but a choice nevertheless.

    So he’s a totally unhinged bigot with colossal sexual hangups, AND he’s an anti-vaxxer? That overlap will not go unremembered.

  44. #44 Kathy
    October 29, 2009

    It always amuses me to see perfectly healthy people get so worked up about “big pharma” and how “bad” vaccines are. How luxurious it must be to not have to worry about your health every hour, every minute, every day. With chronic illness it’s not so easy to be that cavalier. I wonder if they would boycott “evil pharma” if they or their children developed type 1 diabetes, and had to take multiple injections of insulin every day just to survive.

    Of course nature, like science, is also amoral. Bet they’d find that out quickly if they chose to forgo insulin injections, or died of pneumonia after catching the flu because they refused a vaccine.

  45. #45 becca
    October 29, 2009

    Ya know, if I were a really clever antigay bigot, I’d post things like Dr. Smart. Cause you see, the ‘classic closet case self-loather’ stereotype is so deeply ingrained in our culture (perhaps due to a kernel of truth) that sloppy thinking we all tend to be shockingly guilty of (“That overlap will not go unremembered.”) will stoke the hatred fires for me.

  46. #46 A Man Zed
    October 29, 2009

    Sounds like Dr. Troll is a member of the White Robe Underground, to me.

  47. #47 Rowan
    October 29, 2009

    I had a moment this past weekend with two anti-vax moms. They are roommates and each has a three year old child. Both kids have developed colds with a cough. They took them in because of concern of pertussis. The doctor said it wasn’t, but one of them insisted on a culture which came back neg.

    The thing that gets me is that she then states she won’t vaccinate her child for pertussis because only 29 (i have no idea where she got the number) kids died from it last year, and while that is sad she doesn’t think the government should push for all kids to be vaccinated.

    I wanted to pound my head on the table. She has no clue how many thousands of children used to die each year from pertussis! The vaccine is the reason so few are dying. Well, I should say, was the reason. I know that reported cases are on the rise again due to the anti-vax movement.

  48. #48 antipodean
    October 29, 2009

    Just because you can pull of a great Poe doesn’t mean you’re not just another flavour of troll

  49. #49 ema
    October 29, 2009

    Dr. Smart,

    No need to get so discombobulated just because a, you know, woman addressed you. And while there might not be anything unusual about your insecurities, your insistence on showcasing your shortcomings is uncouth. This is a discussion about vaccines, not how “manly” you think you are or your lack of experience when conversing with women. Best to stay on topic. Like so:

    By all means, do not give your girls Gardisil. I am not sure how many girls have died from taking that vaccine, but one is too many. STDs are completely preventable. Keep you pants zipped or face the consequences of your sin. Simple isn’t it?

    While you might be pleased to learn that there’s no evidence for Gardasil causing any deaths to date, you might not be too keen to find out that, statistically, you’ve probably already been exposed to the STI the vaccine is designed to prevent.

    Also, your assertion that the way to prevent HPV infection is to [k]eep your pants zipped, is incorrect. The way to do it is to administer a *preventive* vaccine to a patient population before exposure, hence the need to vaccinate before sexual debut. [There is also evidence the vaccine is beneficial for older female patient populations as well as for males, but I digress.]

    …a young girl should not take this extremely dangerous and useless vaccine. It has killed more girls than it has helped.

    You do realize that magic doesn’t work in the real world, yes? Just because you assert something doesn’t poof it into existence. If you want to play with the big boys and girls you need evidence to counter the existing data showing the HPV vaccine to be safe and effective.

  50. #50 Tina St. Sebastian
    October 30, 2009

    Can I get a little help from someone here? I have been arguing over the merits of H1N1 vaccination for the past few days, and today my opponent pointed me to this.

    I’m not sure what to say to that. After telling him to trust the doctors, I can hardly go “Except German ones”, can I?

    Also, when I first heard of this ‘other’ vaccine, I thought it was another anti-vaxxer lie, but now…I just don’t get why the German government would do that, if only from a political standpoint. Of course people are going to be upset if they hear that the army and the ‘elite’ are getting a different vaccine. Also, is it in any way important that the ‘important’ people get Celvapan instead of Pandemrix – aren’t they equally effective?

    Sorry if these are all stupid questions, or if this is an obvious hoax and I’m silly for believing it. I’ve been forced to fisk naturalnews and rebutt Fox videos all day, so my brain is a bit fried.
    I’m still getting the vaccine (if they ever let me – still on the priority cases) even though they’re exclusively using Pandemrix here.

  51. #51 Eike Scholz
    October 30, 2009

    @Tina St. Sebastian

    Your questions are not stupid. The German government has a big pile of “fail”, by ordering different vaccines for themselves and for the public. However, for me as a German it looks as if this happened, because the decision to vaccinate the government employees had been made earlier, then the decision to get immunization for the “whole” population.
    Further there are some worries among the German doctors that the Vaccines where not sufficiently tested for pregnant woman and small children. I don’t know how justified this worries are. Assuring herd-immunity would be the solution to that, but thats not gonna happen, due to the pr disaster of our government.

  52. #52 Pam Ronald
    October 30, 2009

    “That would be fine if they lived in isolated caves away from electronic media.”

    Electronic media is part of the problem. Readily accessible misinformatio is abundant on the web

  53. #53 Dianne
    October 30, 2009

    Of note on the situation in Germany: Doctors there are not recommending that young children and pregnant women not get vaccinated, simply that they get an alternate vaccine. The reasons sound a little weak to me, but as long as they get vaccinated with some vaccine it’s probably ok.

    Ironically, the nonadjuvanted vaccine has 10X the thimerosal in it*. So I suppose if Germany gets into a war in the next few months because their ambassadors have suddenly all gone Apergerish we know where to place the blame.

    *Still trivial amounts of mercury either way and not enough to be a risk, even during pregnancy.

  54. #54 Bill
    October 30, 2009

    Anti-vaxers would have more credibility if they stopped talking about mercury, since it hasn’t been in childhood vaccines for nearly a decade.

    Even for the yearly seasonal flu vaccine thimerosal is easy to avoid by ponying up extra cash for the single-dose version.

    I wonder how many anti-vaxers will still have jobs if they contract pertussis and are out sick for several weeks, since employees who are coughing so hard they vomit aren’t going to be allowed to come to work.

  55. #55 Denice Walter
    October 30, 2009

    @ Dianne: Can’t stop laughing over your “war scenario”! I think it has SNL skit potential if you change “German ambassadors” to “Obama and his inner circle” going “Aspergerish” after “mandated swine flu vaccines” going on to start brush-fire wars all over the globe and then….(hmm… sounds familiar)

  56. #56 Wellescent Health Blog
    October 30, 2009

    I am not sure how the anti vaccination lobby has managed to grow into such a powerful force of misinformation delivery and why vaccination, of all medical procedures, is something that people end up being so much against. It seems in many cases like some sort of religion because despite considerable evidence, the myths are repeated time and again.

  57. #57 Tina St. Sebastian
    October 30, 2009

    Thank you Eike and Dianne.

    The problem here is that the government only ordered Pandemrix, so there’s no point in recommending an alternative vaccine. It’s Pandemrix or nothing.
    The Icelandic government is rather cocking things up as well, by not adressing those fears as much as they perhaps could. The Surgeon General sent out a press release saying it’s perfectly safe for pregnant women. So now the conspiracy theorists are focusing on the fact that they only specified pregnant women. That must mean they know it’s unsafe for old people and children! And they’re probably lying anyway! And they’re trying to kill us all! David Icke and Fox News said so!!!11!one!

    Maybe it would be easier to just give up. Or ship all the anti-vaxxers to a remote island and use them for research. Help them realize their fears, so to speak…

  58. #58 Tina St. Sebastian
    October 30, 2009

    Wellescent: I don’t get it either. Maybe because people dislike needles and it’s easy to imagine them being filled with all sorts of crap. After all, it happens in the movies. Maybe it’s a mixture of too little faith in scientific ethics and too much trust in the actual power of science. Hey, they probably CAN make a brain-control serum…and they aren’t afraid to use it…after all, it happens in movies all the tim
    Vaccination has been called a victim of its own success. You don’t have to look far back to see epidemics – my own great-great-grandmother lost six brothers and sisters (over the span of two weeks) to diptheria. This was in 1862, so a lot of people write it off as ancient history, but she died in 1938, six years before my mother was born. It’s not that far back, and ever more recent for many diseases.
    Sometimes I think we need an outbreak, just so people can see the threat is real, but I’m still scared we will get one, thanks to fear-mongering idiots.

  59. #59 gaiainc
    October 30, 2009

    In clinic yesterday, I had a first-time pregnant woman. She has been getting the yearly flu vaccine for the past 10 years. I actually had a H1N1 vaccine to give her as well as the seasonal flu vaccine. She declined both. Why? “I just don’t want the vaccine” and “we don’t know that long-term effects”. I explained that the only difference between the seasonal flu vaccine and the H1N1 is that we know the H1N1 is going around. It’s made the same way as the other vaccines. It’s safe, ridiculously safe, safe as anything I have to give her to keep her from getting an awful illness, and pregnant women are getting very hard hit by H1N1 and flu in general. She still declined.

    ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

    Then I find out that at one of the other hospitals in the area, two pregnant women have died from H1N1. One of the babies also died, likely because the baby was born at 22 weeks. The other one seems to be doing OK.

    Anti-vaxxers make my blood boil.

  60. #60 D. C. Sessions
    October 30, 2009

    So he’s a totally unhinged bigot with colossal sexual hangups, AND he’s an anti-vaxxer? That overlap will not go unremembered.

    Meditate while looking at a needle and the connection becomes clear.

  61. #61 Leigh Williams
    November 13, 2009

    At first I though “Dr. Smart” had to be a Poe. Surely no one could be that disgusting; someone would have knocked him in the head long since.

    Then I realized that in the real world he’s probably hiding all that virulent hatred of women. Passing as a human being, in other words.

    Now doesn’t that give you the cold shivers?

  62. #62 anonymous
    July 13, 2010

    I nearly died from vaccines- 2 minutes after a shot my throat closed over and I stopped breathing for 2 minutes.

The site is currently under maintenance and will be back shortly. New comments have been disabled during this time, please check back soon.