Cleveland Clinic https://scienceblogs.com/ en "Disruptive" functional medicine at the Cleveland Clinic: Disrupting medicine by mixing quackery with it https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/03/01/disruptive-functional-medicine-at-the-cleveland-clinic-disrupting-medicine-by-mixing-quackery-with-it <span>&quot;Disruptive&quot; functional medicine at the Cleveland Clinic: Disrupting medicine by mixing quackery with it</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That the Cleveland Clinic has become one of the leading institutions, if not the leading institution, in embracing quackademic medicine is now indisputable. Indeed, 2017 greeted me with a reminder of just how low the Clinic has gone when the director of its Wellness Institute <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/09/antivaccine-pseudoscience-at-the-cleveland-clinic-thats-what-happens-when-you-allow-magical-thinking-to-take-hold/">published a blatantly antivaccine article</a> for <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/10/a-cleveland-clinic-doctors-antivaccine-rant/">a local publication</a>, which led to a firestorm of publicity in the medical blogosphere, social media, and conventional media to the point where the Cleveland Clinic's CEO <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/18/the-ceo-of-the-cleveland-clinic-defends-its-quackademic-medicine/">Dr. Toby Cosgrove had to respond</a>. Dr. Cosgrove was—shall we say?—not particularly convincing. Indeed, even as he voiced support for vaccines (good), he was clearly in denial that all the pseudoscience and quackery that the Cleveland Clinic has embraced under his leadership facilitated antivaccine views because so much of it included practitioners and belief systems that tend to be antivaccine. As I like to point out in response every time Cosgrove's becomes all righteously indignant about the criticism the Cleveland Clinic receives for its embrace of pseudoscience and his being shocked—shocked!—that there are antivaccine beliefs in a physician in a leadership position in his Wellness Institute, he hired Dr. Mark Hyman to set up a "functional medicine" (FM) clinic at the the Clinic, the same Dr. Hyman who co-authored with <strike>vaccine safety activist</strike> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/02/21/how-antivaxers-deceptively-don-the-mantle-of-vaccine-safety-activists/">antivaccine activist</a> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/02/27/bogus-challenges-to-prove-the-scientific-consensus-the-m-o-of-a-crank/">Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.</a> an antivaccine propaganda book, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/06/17/robert-f-kennedy-jr-parties-like-its-1999-over-thimerosal-and-autism/">Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak: Mercury Toxicity in Vaccines and the Political, Regulatory, and Media Failures That Continue to Threaten Public Health</a>, a book full of antivaccine fear mongering of the mercury militia variety. I also note every time Dr. Cosgrove gets his knickers in a bunch over this that Hyman and Kennedy published that book the very same year that Cosgrove hired Hyman. Not only that, but RFK Jr. and Hyman appeared on <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/12/has-dr-oz-become-antivaccine/">The Dr. Oz Show</a> to promote the book a mere week and a half before the Cleveland Clinic <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/09/cleveland_clinic_to_open_cente.html">announced Hyman's hiring</a>.</p> <!--more--><p>So it was with some interest that I came across an article praising the Cleveland Clinic's embrace of pseudoscience as "<a href="https://fonconsulting.com/blog/disruptive-functional-medicine-innovation-drives-value-based-future-at-cleveland-clinic/">disruptive innovation</a>." Yes, it was co-authored by an old "friend" of the blog, Glenn Sabin. We've met Sabin multiple times before, most recently earlier this year when I became aware of a book he published about <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/05/selling-an-alternative-medicine-cancer-cure-testimonial-as-an-n-of-1-trial-integrative-medicines-new-propaganda-technique/">integrative medicine's latest rebranding of itself</a>. Years before that, he had bragged that integrative medicine is brand, not a specialty, and this was one of the few areas <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/07/28/on-the-evolution-of-quackery/">where I actually agreed with Sabin</a>, just not in the way that he meant it. For instance, he liked how "complementary and alternative medicine" (CAM) had been "rebranded as "integrative medicine." He also thinks integrative medicine is a good thing, whereas I view it—and quite rightfully so, I might add—as "integrating" quackery with real medicine, at least where integrative medicine doesn't rebrand science-based health interventions like diet and exercise as somehow being "alternative" or "integrative." So enamored of integrative medicine is Sabin that he also recently wrote a short book on what he considers to be the 125 most important milestones along the path to the acceptance of "integrative medicine," or, as I refer to them, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/11/28/the-long-strange-road-to-normalizing-the-integration-of-quackery-with-medicine/">milestones on the way to normalizing quackery</a>.</p> <p>In their article, <a href="https://fonconsulting.com/blog/disruptive-functional-medicine-innovation-drives-value-based-future-at-cleveland-clinic/">Disruptive Functional Medicine Innovation Drives Value-based Future at Cleveland Clinic</a>, Walsh and Sabin start out quoting Clayton Christensen:</p> <blockquote><p> The instinct of every leader is to frame disruption as a threat—even if it constitutes an extraordinary opportunity for growth by reaching more people more affordably. If today’s hospitals set up focused-hospitals to disrupt themselves…the evolution can be profitable rather than painful. </p></blockquote> <p>So right from the beginning, you see that they view integrative medicine and FM at the Cleveland Clinic as "disruption" in the service of "innovation":</p> <blockquote><p> Christensen, one of the nation’s leading authorities on disruptive innovation in business, wrote those words at a time after the early forces of healthcare disruption had started coalescing, around 2000.</p> <p>He would not have recognized them at that time because they were not dependent upon the technological advances he often cites as the basis for successful disruption. Rather they were, and remain, disruptive in how patients can be most beneficially treated. This evolution has often been painful, and it may yet produce profit, if, as we will see, that disruption establishes value based on quality outcomes, reduced costs and patient satisfaction. The Triple Aim by any name.</p> <p>Those early disruptive forces in care first stirred in the U.S. in the 1980’s, initially in the form of formal recognition of complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) modalities by the U.S. healthcare system. The subsequent growth of clinical businesses and their patient populations (to shocking levels by 1991<sup>2</sup>) was completely driven by patient preferences and out-of-pocket spending that was not reimbursable. </p></blockquote> <p>There are two interesting, perhaps unintentional, admissions in just this brief passage. First, a whole lot of "integrative medicine" is not reimbursable by insurance companies because they don't cover it. Why don't they cover it? The reason is simple: It's not science- and evidence-based. Once you get away from the interventions that integrative medicine has rebranded, such as diet, exercise, lifestyle, and a handful of others, such as a very few herbal medicines, you're left with acupuncture, reiki, homeopathy (and, yes, homeopathy is still used because naturopathy is popular in integrative medicine, and <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/01/28/you-cant-have-naturopathy-without-homeop/">you can't have naturopathy without homeopathy</a>), reflexology, chiropractic, and a large number of other pseudoscientific modalities. <em>That's</em> what's being integrated into medicine.</p> <p>The second admission is that this integration has been driven by patient preferences. Now, I don't agree that it's been "completely" driven by patient preferences. There are plenty of physicians who have, for whatever reason, fallen into pseudoscience and offer these services to patients. Sure, many of them are responding to what they see as a marketing opportunity, but there are a lot of docs who have gone into "integrative medicine" because they've become true believers as well. Be that as it may, the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH) doesn't exist because scientists and physicians clamored for it. The NCCIH exists because a woo-friendly politician aligned with quacks who sold laetrile and other nonsense foisted it on the NIH. Similarly it wasn't physicians who clamored for these programs Walsh and Sabin describe:</p> <blockquote><ul><li>In the establishment of many Centers of Integrative Medicine at U.S. medical schools, growing from eight at its 1999 inception to more than 70 today, and leading to the formation of The Academic Consortium for Integrative Medicine &amp; Health, ACIMH.</li> <li>The growth of integrative health and medicine in the U.S. Military Health System and especially the VA that began in the wake of the wars in the Middle East, that now influences the approaches to care and healing in these and other major institutions.</li> <li>The investment in integrative medicine and health units at academic and non-academic regional and national hospital systems such as Mayo, Allina, Medstar, Sutter Health, Meridian Health and Beaumont Health (many, including the VA, are now members of ACIMH).</li> </ul></blockquote> <p>Yes, over the years I've discussed these developments, such as the infiltration of quackery into medical school education and academic medical centers and the VA, as well as the proliferation integrative medicine centers like the Cleveland Clinic's Wellness Institute:</p> <blockquote><p> If there is a model of disruptive innovation in healthcare that Christensen might recognize today it is probably located at the Cleveland Clinic, where its Center for Functional Medicine (CC-CFM) is as close to a ‘focused-hospital’ bent on deliberate self-disruption as we are likely to find.</p> <p>Established in 2014 after CEO Delos (Toby) Cosgrove, MD and Mark Hyman, MD, current chairman of the Institute for Functional Medicine, agreed to bring to the Cleveland Clinic functional approaches to identifying root causes of illness and to treating conditions in collaborative fashion.</p> <p>Behind this decision was the intention to create a sustainable business model based on value that would scale in such a way as to establish new relationships with insurers and make the functional approach a norm in healthcare.</p> <p>In presentations at the Personalized Lifestyle Medicine Institute (PLMI) conference “Harnessing the Genomic Revolution: Breakthroughs in Personalized Precision Health Care” in October of 2016, Dr. Hyman, now Director of CC-CFM, and Patrick Hanaway, MD, its Medical Director, described the careful, intentional efforts being made to establish this business model grounded in the precepts of the Triple Aim: reduced costs, better outcomes and greater patient satisfaction. </p></blockquote> <p>Let's step back and remember what FM really is. Basically, FM represents itself at getting at the "root cause" of illness and attacking it directly. In reality, FM is more like "<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/18/the-quackery-of-so-called-functional-medicine-making-it-up-as-you-go-along/">making it up as you go along</a>" the same way that so many other alternative medicine practitioners do. Basically, FM involves the worst of both worlds, alternative medicine and conventional medicine. Like the worst aspects of conventional medicine, FM involves massive overtesting, with FM doctors sometimes <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/12/05/what-functional-medicine-really-is/">testing dozens or scores of lab values</a>. They claim they know what these values mean and how to treat them based on evidence, but seldom do. So, like alternative medicine practitioners, they make it up as they go along. Of course, when you test so many different lab values, inevitably by random chance alone one or more of them will be abnormal, because normal lab values are usually set so that their ranges encompass 95% of normal people. So you get things like hormone panels, thyroid panels, metabolic panels, micronutrient testing, and many, many more. You get bogus tests like provoked urine heavy metal testing, in which a patient is given a dose of a chelating agent and then a urine test for heavy metals is carried out. Inevitably the values are high, and FM docs use them to justify chelation therapy.</p> <blockquote><p> Now look at what they're doing at the Functional Medicine Center:</p> <ul><li>Dr. Hanaway’s presentation described the programs and clinical systems, analytical tools, team-building and research programs being put in place to create this paradigm of value. These include:</li> <li>Conducting a select group of small RCTs.</li> <li>Working with the Institute for Functional Medicine to standardize clinical protocols.</li> <li>Collecting and integrating quality, outcome and cost data (often for the first time ever).</li> <li>Collecting patient case studies that illustrate the patient experience.</li> </ul><p>[Note: Dr. Hanaway’s full presentation (40 min.) is <a href="http://education.plminstitute.org/uploads/images/196502830.png">available here</a> on the PLMI web site (requires free registration). Click on the “Day 2” tab.]<br /> In reviewing these efforts in some detail, Hanaway noted, “We’re in a learning process of ‘How do we put these tools together?’ We look at quality, we look at cost, and work toward value.” </p></blockquote> <p>Let's see: Do a few small RCTs? That's a perfect recipe for either a bunch of negative results because the trials are underpowered or for spurious results. Collect case studies? That's the lowest form of clinical evidence, not even a case series! Then there's this:</p> <blockquote><p> Another measure, using the NIH’s PROMIS-10 tool to compare the results of “clinically significant improvement” from CC-CFM treatments to those of the Clinic’s family medicine unit (CC-FM) (already among the nation’s best for patient clinical improvement), demonstrates the following improvement scores:</p> <ul><li>CC-CFM: + 38.7%</li> <li>CC-FM: + 27.4%</li> </ul><p>In part this nearly 40% difference reflects what Hanaway reports as the CC-CFM’s success in encouraging patients to actively embrace activities that support their health (through ‘patient activation measures’). Indicative of this were results from comparisons of patients being treated for fatigue, mood, and autoimmune conditions. </p></blockquote> <p>And here's where the rebranding comes in. Remember, the Center for Functional Medicine claims that its greater success is due to its ability to get patients to "embrace activities that support their health." Whenever I discuss FM, I'm forced to conceded that there is a grain of good there. There are some things that FM gets right. The problem is that these things tend to be no different than the sorts of things every good primary care doctor should be getting right anyway, such as emphasizing healthy lifestyles, good nutrition, enough exercise, adequate sleep, cessation of habits known to be deleterious to health (e.g., smoking). How do they do it? One advantage FM doctors have over primary care doctors practicing science-based medicine (SBM) is that, because insurance often won’t cover much of what they offer, FM doctors tend to spend more time with patients, which is something that primary care doctors have a harder time doing these days. They emphasize prevention, which is a good thing but again something that good primary care doctors do anyway. Unfortunately, the FM version of “prevention” isn’t always in line with the SBM version of prevention. Where FM doctors go so very wrong is in what <a href="https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/dys-functional-medicine-comes-to-dentistry/">Grant Ritchey described as a major unstated premise</a>. That premise is that FM really does address the root causes of disease better than conventional medicine. FM also encompasses a lot of quackery, such as acupuncture, chiropractic adjustments, and especially “detoxification” programs. It’s little wonder that many naturopaths are very enthusiastic about FM.</p> <p>So here's the problem. Whatever benefit there is from FM almost certainly derives from the things that primary care physicians do right, such as getting patients to improve their diet and exercise more, which FM docs could well be more successful at because they can spend more time with each patient. There's nothing magical about that. Also notice how the RCTs that are being done are not testing individual FM interventions, but rather the whole package. If the improvements seen are driven primarily by lifestyle interventions, they'll never know that the overtesting and the woo that FM slathers over the few good things it does had nothing to do with the patient improvements reported. Maybe that's the point. After all, the main purpose of the "research" Hyman is doing at the Center for Functional Medicine seems to be to show that FM saves money, in order to persuade insurance companies to reimburse for FM services.</p> <p>Same as it ever was. The only "disruption" going on at the Cleveland Clinic involves finding a way to extract more cash out of offering pseudoscientific medicine in the form of <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">"functional" medicine</a>, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/24/quackademic-medicine-takes-it-to-the-next-level-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">traditional Chinese medicine</a>, and <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/26/quackademic-medicine-tightens-its-hold-on-the-cleveland-clinic/">all manner of quackery</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Tue, 02/28/2017 - 21:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy" hreflang="en">Homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/naturopathy" hreflang="en">Naturopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/functional-medicine" hreflang="en">functional medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/integrative-medicine" hreflang="en">integrative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mark-hyman" hreflang="en">Mark Hyman</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackademic-medicine" hreflang="en">quackademic medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/robert-f-kennedy-jr" hreflang="en">Robert F. Kennedy Jr.</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/toby-cosgrove" hreflang="en">Toby Cosgrove</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354641" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488351205"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>After all is said and done, I still don't really know just what functional medicine is despite having read today's article (and even attending a lecture about it presented by a "doctor" of chiropractic). I'd very much appreciate it if someone can come up with a concise and informative definition that even a layman can understand.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354641&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rYbl00ug787hSHNG29Y0DR3PLwleCARTwGVurBVPyHc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tgobbi (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354641">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354642" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488352962"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Great article… Operation Backbone has been a disruptive mechanism in active duty,military and VA in a positive way…. The issue is not so much the disruptive nature in a positive way… It's the leadership at the CEO and CFO level, that doesn't understand what a mechanism can do in a positive way if it seems At First to go against the grain… It's the leadership that becomes Buried in paperwork bureaucracy… Not even so much the bottom line… But stepping outside the office and seeing the actual flow… That's what vision does - not the status quo. No excuses… There are tremendous success out there however red tape is not an alternative to constantly challenging the status quo, or the flow and nature of a disruptive new mechanism that can alter the path for so many people now and in the future</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354642&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UpkXiHv_fS91GNzAdCWcLw3pNRjcHEezE1NShD2mxNc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike Sformo (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354642">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354643" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488354113"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ah, the old Galileo Gambit: People who disagree with us really are just trying to protect the status quo for some nefarious reason.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354643&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5MQwJzJFgyda0QTMBJ_8_ZV9-wFcNhly94yeyObuebw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zach (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354643">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354644" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488354238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Functional medicine = Functional entertainment</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354644&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D2pZObJ5jrZ8QTHc4rIhYfGGSW0WxFyZiLzJAhXZBJ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354644">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354645" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488356059"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I so thoroughly detest the abuse of those words "disrupt" and "innovation." They do not mean what their chirpy promoters think they mean.</p> <p>"Oh boy!, let's go _break something!_" "And let's _make new_ regardless of whether new is better or worse, or even if 'new' is old, _and_ worse, as in homeopathy." The first sounds like Steve Bannon ideology, and the second sounds like planned obsolescence, and now it also sounds like quack-o-rama. Bleh. </p> <p>What I'd really like to see some day: a line of peaceful protesters making their way through the Board meeting of one of these institutions that touts "disruption" and "innovation," chanting "Dis-RUPT! Dis-RUPT!" loudly enough to do just that for, oh, five or ten minutes, and then they all leave, having made the point.</p> <p>Speaking of disruptive innovations in quackery, here's a prediction: e-Iridology. The computer takes a photo of your iris and spits out a diagnosis. There will also be an app that enables using your i-Thing to do it as a form of "selfie," and send in the photo for a "diagnosis" any time you like (only $49.99, act now!).</p> <p>It will seem "sciency" because it comes with an app and a robot, and as we all know, anything with an app and a robot is super-duper cool. Someone will make a lot of money on this and patients will die from false negatives for dangerous diseases. FDA might shut it down in 2022 or so, depending on election outcomes in 2020. Hurry! hurry! hurry!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354645&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XpX74zZI2OXCW5NHYWnJ8VMayDKnfuLJ_sD7YHhXEjE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Squirrel (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354645">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354646" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488363403"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You want to know the crazy thing, Mr./Ms. Squirrel? If I marketed a b.s. auto-diagnostic I could make a fortune - my financial troubles would be over forever. Or be a professional science denier. Or a professional RW troll.</p> <p>So many times have I refused to participate in lucrative swindles, and my reward is poverty. At least the old lady next door whose walkway I shovel for free thinks I will be rewarded by Jesus. Sometimes I wish I could make myself believe this. But good deeds aren't if you do it in anticipation of reward.</p> <p>Those that readily accuse RI commenters of being 'shills' are not simply wrong - they have things exactly backwards. Very, very bad taste. It is principled advocates of reason who willingly accept financial loss to defend what is right.</p> <p>Walk in peace, scientific skeptics, and always remember that the principle of charity can go too far. You are morally superior to Kennedy, Gordon, Wakefield, and that entire cast of venal clowns. You don't have to be self-righteous or a 'dick' to have pride in yourself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354646&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pgcg1WGDK_MF_ygz9Cr6xIBheosCOr5f3-06YEZweIg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rj (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354646">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354647" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488365397"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"After all is said and done, I still don’t really know just what functional medicine is despite having read today’s article (and even attending a lecture about it presented by a “doctor” of chiropractic). I’d very much appreciate it if someone can come up with a concise and informative definition that even a layman can understand."</p> <p>Functional medicine: a system which functions to provide a beneficial outcome for farsighted practitioners.</p> <p><a href="https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAevAAAAJDQxN2ZiNTY5LTYxN2MtNDY1My1iYmIzLWYwYTA0MDEzNjhhMg.jpg">https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAevAAAAJDQxN2ZiNTY5LTYxN2M…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354647&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cOoAnSM8n3Fkf_eGf07tWkEhljVQjJ47toPnnF4yewo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354647">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354648" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488367461"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I so thoroughly detest the abuse of those words “disrupt” and “innovation.” They do not mean what their chirpy promoters think they mean.</p></blockquote> <p>The game here, as when these words are similarly abused in technophilic and Silicon Valley contexts, is buzzword bingo. Certain people have gotten used to allegedly novel schemes being marketed in just this way. Why should medicine be different? "Disruption" is made to sound exciting. Never mind that it tends to be "interesting" in the Chinese curse sense of the word.</p> <p>And as in Silicon Valley, a handful of people who have the luck to be in the right place at the right time make out like bandits.</p> <p>The main difference between disruption in medicine and disruption in the tech business is that occasionally the latter ends up helping the consumer directly. Several iDevices have served as examples over the years. When this kind of disruption helps a patient, it is invariably a combination of luck and the placebo effect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354648&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PsV46kGKy_mKIl93sGaPxwADWEZQD5AQV6KlKAAKWKw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354648">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354649" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488367854"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“Oh boy!, let’s go _break something!_” </p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22let%27s+go+do+some+crimes%22">"Let's go get sushi and not pay."</a></p> <blockquote><p>What I’d really like to see some day: a line of peaceful protesters making their way through the Board meeting of one of these institutions that touts “disruption” and “innovation,” chanting “Dis-RUPT! Dis-RUPT!” loudly enough to do just that for, oh, five or ten minutes, and then they all leave, having made the point.</p></blockquote> <p>There's a <i>Been Down So Long</i> reference to be had here, too, but the word on the street is that there's a bunch of mass storage to be had in the campus library's electronic recycling, which has been vitally important to me lately.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354649&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OWHmYLfB8YYNJ95-iSI17gP0zEOuBcyxWV5jtOslcsY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354649">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354650" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488372268"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No need to worry about the chemical medicine paradigm. It will continue to thrive and be hailed by unquestioning believers, even as our population steadily becomes even more unhealthy than it is already, while spending more than ever. </p> <p>Trauma care is great in the US, but there's a relatively small market for it. The real money is in the creation and perpetuation of chronic disease, because there's a constant supply of symptoms to mask and tests to perform.</p> <p>Even when it's performing at its optimum, the modern medical system is the third leading cause of death in the US--as researchers from Johns Hopkins pointed out in studies from 2000 and 2016. See <a href="http://www.drug-education.info/documents/iatrogenic.pdf">http://www.drug-education.info/documents/iatrogenic.pdf</a>; and Makary Martin A, Daniel Michael. Medical error—the third leading cause of death in the US BMJ 2016; 353 :i2139.</p> <p>So-called "integrative medicine" is just responding to a demand that was inevitable. Sure, there have always been opportunistic "quacks," but they'll never rise to the level of the official quacks running a system that kills, conservatively, over 250,000 people every year.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354650&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1rO2w5FMnbC2g27IsNQuQZRe8OgmUVD0uV4fFd6Rrgo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354650">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354651" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488373547"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lol. If only the problem were isolated to a single source, it could be pretty easily resolved. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354651&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4sFP6Amjp4ez4Rf8FQsSR8ZVh2YE3uUoIvkJYcyYVrw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354651">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354652" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488373828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But 'disruptive' sounds so, so... rebellious and paradigm shifting!</p> <p>Let's <a href="mailto:f@ck">f@ck</a> up the establishment and usher in a new era ...<br /> or something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354652&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tOplAbtFvApDV39wjNICBH7GVj0h4bVJkzGyeMrJpqk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354652">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354653" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488374095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO; yes medical error does either directly or indirectly cause the deaths of a number of people per year (I believe the 250,000 number is has been strongly reputed). However, how many people every year die from using FM, ND, HM, wheatgrass, etc, etc. Ask the young model how well having a chiro twist you neck works: oh sorry you can't she's dead.</p> <p>Real modern medicine works and I am proof. In the last 3 years my prostate cancer is cured or in total remission and I survived a heart attack in which I had less than a 7% survival chance. I've had even better news on the heart attack: my ejection rate during the attack was below 35% and as of December my ejection rate in now over 60% (55% being average) which suggests little to no heart muscle damage.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354653&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZJD481se0OsoPTBZMmtDgz84zQqpC0H0C3vlai9hCns"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354653">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354654" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488374408"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO...wow.</p> <p>First off the number if deaths CAUSED by medicine is a flat out lie. Someone who is diagnosed as terminal is not killed by science. Second, live expectancy is longer now than pre science based medicine, suggesting that we are healthier. Death is pretty unhealthy. Third, new diseases and disorders are found as we discover them, primarily because we now know what we are looking for in research. It is foolish to talk as if society was better off in the 1890s.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354654&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YCAl-Zpj3kKAbQOE43NOMF_nDXKXX-SKwIggb6n_CYo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zach (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354654">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354663" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488375343"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, Dr. Starfield's study identified 106,000 deaths per year caused by properly prescribed and administered, FDA approved drugs. So that would be the most direct "cause" by medicine--along with 12,000 deaths per year from unnecessary surgery.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354663&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8ron373l4eztaA1kHmrWrW3Opf27bc36rfIOPlrRgN4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354663">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1354654#comment-1354654" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zach (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354655" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488374444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In other paradigm-shifting news...</p> <p>It seems that woo-meister extraordinaire, Gary Null, may be soon dismissed by his long time land-based (free) airtime provider, WBAI. He lost one day a week months ago and ranted that he may lose even more. They allowed him time to run a promo for his 'health retreats' that will benefit the station as well as himself. Long story about retreats available upon request.</p> <p>Although he maintains that he has other outlets broadcasting his dreck, ( unnamed ), an internet locus and woo by phone, I believe that he gets the most money via the radio station because of his longtime association with it and the fact that it reaches NYC money. Who else can afford powdered, dried vegetables at high prices?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354655&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wjcD8GTfJLrBDO-1IuG6w11ktODYiBGuErJQPdM_D_U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354655">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354656" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488374684"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter:</p> <p>Trauma care is "great", because it is based on the results of scientific research. Chronic care is terrible because it's based on the results of scientific research.</p> <p>How does that work?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354656&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GbYg-tGxpVJW5iFzfvngMLy-IGMj4LlZBHNWEKgsanQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354656">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354657" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488374834"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice @ 17:</p> <p>You have made my day.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354657&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fW70qtPQ5WJ3O2PBEfvZCDDvU0a-HEbPBrRLqdTMnCQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354657">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354658" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488374973"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ TBruce:</p> <p>I always wonder how they manage to separate the two types of care.<br /> Aren't education, research and training in medicine beyond such artificial and unrealistic distinctions?</p> <p>It's hilarious to hear them harp upon this tune.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354658&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hbb93oR11rGHk-cycgJVqzRpaAbJiInBJaD3nDVrq-c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354658">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354659" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488375102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"No need to worry about the chemical medicine paradigm." Oh good. That means the chemical constituents of plants will continue to show activities, long after extracts of the plants themselves fail to live up to their purported use in folk-medicine, or the hyperbolics of marketers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354659&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wXNNXsWw__AOntd2q6bS55SpktcdwmB1Z_JXGgExxns"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354659">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354660" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488375113"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chemgeek you ass-ume so much. </p> <p>Most prostate cancer is genetic, dairy products have nothing to do with it. Let me think; the last time I had a glass of milk is around ten years ago. I did more than a google u research on the subject. </p> <p>The reason I am in the 7% has to do with where I work (medical facility) and the care I received from here to the treatment hospital. I also lucked out I had the best cardiologist in the area treat me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354660&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JRAuwNKzoSLi8BDTXs9xVgynO68jNQboMg6KfFwhlJg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354660">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354661" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488375122"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ TBruce:</p> <p>I know that he has been dismissed and recalled previously BUT we can hope. If he only gets one day a week, it might really eat into his profit margin.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354661&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J3z2Kmi5Criq10wbO5QS99xsSjq-ImjprneGQKfDj9k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354661">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354662" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488375200"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, and we have to stop meeting like this, Bruce.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354662&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RuC8iDplWHHaAXjLVNEMnSeBg7wQaS8R6rnCMY9ApyI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354662">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354664" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488376375"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There are hormones in Dairy products and the Chinese have very low rates.</p></blockquote> <p>Did you have any specific career paths in mind for your new job search, Fucklesworth?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354664&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p5FX2PPC5ik09Y6mVwWU9_Wa-dAjbj5zMCPiEiJUYgI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354664">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354665" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488376493"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From American Cancer Society:</p> <p>Men who eat a lot of red meat or high-fat dairy products appear to have a slightly higher chance of getting prostate cancer. These men also tend to eat fewer fruits and vegetables. Doctors aren’t sure which of these factors is responsible for raising the risk.</p> <p>Some studies have suggested that men who consume a lot of calcium (through food or supplements) may have a higher risk of developing prostate cancer. Dairy foods (which are often high in calcium) might also increase risk. But most studies have not found such a link with the levels of calcium found in the average diet, and it’s important to note that calcium is known to have other important health benefits.</p> <p>Research shows that there may a slight increase in prostate cancer risks from dairy and red meats but whether it is a causation or a correlation is unclear.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354665&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6PEGbyNHdYTW2Hody6BRJxJ2Z3c9gUTqa3hVch0R5ps"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354665">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354666" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488385205"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter<br /></p><blockquote>Well, Dr. Starfield’s study identified 106,000 deaths per year caused by properly prescribed and administered, FDA approved drugs.</blockquote> <p>The real follow up question would be, how many are saved each year with the same drugs. Anticoagulants are one of the more dangerous prescription drugs by number of side effects and are often used as examples when talking about drug-related deaths. Except demonstrably they keep high risk patients alive longer than comparable patients without the drug. Chemotherapy also has nasty side effects, and sadly, many cancer patients undergoing chemo die. Now is this due to the drug, or the cancer? (you can argue for or against on individual cases, but again, statistically, patients on chemo survive much longer than comparable patients without).</p> <p>There's also this:<br /><a href="https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6137a6.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6137a6.htm</a></p> <p>Two main points to take away from this link is a) the average age of those patients dying from medical complications. And b) the overall decline in the rate - obviously the evil nefarious international disease-mongering conspirators are constantly getting better at keeping people alive. How utterly wicked of them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354666&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5p6bZ6LNdKzAEuT2rDTioghD931nb5TE_B94OAtS6jY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gaist (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354666">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354667" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488445242"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Regarding Dr Starfield's article (JAMA 2000 v284(4):483): Among the caveats noted by her in the article, the first is "most of the data are derived from studies in hospitalized patients" - remember that these patients were hospitalized for a reason. These are not deaths occurring in otherwise healthy patients looking for some dietary counseling during their annual well-care checkup. It is not possible to assess how many of these patients would have died regardless of treatment chosen.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354667&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BtTs_Ykq3xcdN2R3MsYPKc8ufxkF2cw-VnilV3fCC5w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">David (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354667">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354668" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488447471"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A "caveat"? Seems more like a limitation. Most patients who die from unnecessary surgery, medication errors and other errors in hospitals, and hospital-acquired infections, would likely die in a hospital, but by no means all. And considering that many people outside of hospitals are also imbibing properly prescribed and administered, FDA approved drugs, the total deaths from them each year are likely much higher than the 106,000 that occur just in hospitals.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354668&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y296bY3BeuYGiz7gSHnFM16omGJJXwbcpYNWNiCTdns"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354668">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1354667#comment-1354667" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">David (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354669" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488449909"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My limited experience with things like biopsy confirmed metastatic cancer is that conventional medicine flies blind with too few markers and panels to see the bullet coming, and fails frequently for this reason. </p> <p>And then mainstream medicine fails to treat specifically enough with targeted, targetable mild materials (meds) for this reason , too. What I've seen with other patients' regular bloodwork makes me shudder. No wonder at all why so many crash and burn. </p> <p>My limited experience with CAM/integrative medicine/FM is that morbid inflammatory processes can be attacked sooner, more thoroughly, more successfully, with less risky ammo than in regular clinical medicine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354669&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qcFT7Bc3LbjV9Fdxb1aTVrZH4bpAtjKtpwLbjE2IFtQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354669">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354670" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488471183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That headline "Disruptive Functional Medicine Innovation Drives Value-based Future at Cleveland Clinic" really makes me think of the Weird Al song "Mission Statement", which is to say it's filled with meaningless buzzwords.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354670&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EU42pb02yPAEqsf7CBFok4ljkNyyaP_bplloEyNv_iQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354670">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354671" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488471311"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>prn @28: If conventional medicine doesn't have enough markers and panels how would you suggest that we go about creating more? And what do you want the markers to be used for? Prognosis estimation, treatment planning, something else?<br /> (I'm assuming that you're talking about biomarkers, please correct me if you mean something else.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354671&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ijZx1YobogiuEPrWxvKpEQWw0_gowS20qJ-O7WSfXfE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354671">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354672" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488473398"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Some studies have suggested that men who consume a lot of calcium (through food or supplements) may have a higher risk of developing prostate cancer. </p></blockquote> <p>OMG. I wouldn't think that the ACS would set-up a strawman.</p> <p>Low.</p> <blockquote><p>Huggins first demonstrated the androgenic dependence of prostate cancer as a potential cause, as well as a point of intervention and therapy, ultimately leading to a Nobel prize in 1966 [1,2].</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3134227/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3134227/</a></p> <p>It's hormones stupid.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354672&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jlnmeNzSLr1NDnyqdpBjUgpGl5fl0CKiE5j9PrdIUjY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Anton P. Nym (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354672">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354673" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488490335"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mr. Jost has not commented here since 2012. Travis Schwochert from Endeavor, Wisconsin, how is that job hunt going? Sorry, you can't blame us for your bad behavior. You should have thought about that before posting so much vile on the Internet. </p> <p>A medium that never forgets.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354673&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1qCfLs7zLdFU1vhN5f9P4vx1J4jc1hXb4xLJfWjvtGI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354673">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354674" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488494166"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good bye, Travis Schwochert from Endeavor, Wisconsin.</p> <p>I learned early on that the Internet does not forget, therefore I have always been careful about my behavior. Which was helped by having a very very common name. Still, I knew better than to post obscene photos, obscenities and meltdowns online.</p> <p>Perhaps you should apply for Supplemental Security Income (aka disability payments) because your troll history is interfering with your job search. </p> <p>Here is a quote from the cop when he was arresting some goons across the street for stealing barbecue supplies from a neighbor when they cried "But there are kids in the house!" (who they were ignoring)....</p> <p>"You should have thought about that before you decided to steal."</p> <p>Those goons provided a great deal of entertainment in our neighborhood. Instead of taping a piece of cloth over the window to block the street light, the idiot would go out and throw rocks at it to knock it out (stopped when we stood at the top of our steps to watch him). Then they had loud parties, but would not answer the door when when hubby pounded on their door with a rubber mallet. And it was fun standing next to my garage staring at this old guy as he honked his car horn that he summoned a female resident... he kept waving me away while I was standing on my own property! Cop cars made it a habit to park on our street during their breaks to watch that place.</p> <p>It was so lovely when the guy who owned the rental next door begged their landlord to sell it to him. The landlord did... and before they moved out the idiots literally trashed the place. The building was expensively rebuilt, and nice folks moved in. Then the neighborhood became lovely and quiet.</p> <p>Travis, we are waiting for you to shut up and leave. You are a stench on society. Don't expect us to help you find a job, you need to own up to your idiocy. </p> <p>One big idiocy is that pharmaceutical companies get big bucks from preventing diseases... when in reality they make more by treating them:<br /> a href="<a href="http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/02/25/peds.2013-0698.full.pdf">http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/02/25/peds.201…</a>"&gt;Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009</p> <p>Also, for the record: I am a former aerospace engineer who just happens to be the mother of a young man with autism who has had a trip by ambulance because of a "grand mal" seizure from a now vaccine preventable disease. </p> <p>I am not worthless because I fight for my kid. My kid is not worthless because he has potential. Mr. Schwochert, you need to reassess your priorities as you search for a job. Learn how to live with others who are different.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354674&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1wCU8hIAk2TTEVHiuC6LZGZfSGdyUNhPVz661GRAdNM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354674">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354676" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488496872"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What "now vaccine preventable disease" are you alleging caused your child to have a seizure? I was browsing through the causes of non-epileptic seizures...I didn't see any "vaccine preventable" diseases on there--and that's in the Merck manual, where I assume they'd be anxious to mention such a cause. Just curious.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354676&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4bRreAojKCXE3Iz90qae4umPTbS47S6amJ1nt7mG3pw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354676">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1354674#comment-1354674" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354675" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488494641"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Disruption is so yesteryear. All the cool kids are pivoting.</p> <p>Speaking of pivoting, Travis J. Schwochert, aka Fendlesworth, aka Fucklesworth, spin on this </p> <p>And speaking of cool, man, that guy's got it <i>made!</i> If you do a Google search and misspell his name, Google suggests the correct spelling. How many of us can claim that kind of fame?!.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354675&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nHbply801xfluF3_zSOoZpuZoatByDsf-qg8qwgpuhQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354675">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1354677" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488497005"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Heheh. Well, as you can see, the latest Fendlesock is gone. Sorry. I was up late multiple nights this week and fell asleep in front of the TV. So he had a few hours to play without my intervention. Such is life...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354677&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B_4SOwxODaDQ6uAumx0AHTAE1bKRYcZ6VRL5yrJha1A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 02 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354677">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1354675#comment-1354675" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354678" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488559105"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO @34: Are you familiar with the concept of a febrile seizure, the kind caused by high fevers, most often seen in children? Those can be caused by any number of pathogens that induce a high fever, some of which are vaccine-preventable and some are not.</p> <p>HiB meningitis can also cause seizures, and thanks to the HiB vaccine, is now very rare.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354678&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="axiWIN3aPRz9CyKxwRet3KVfGBnAvO7bXmCympC82zk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354678">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354679" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488591828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JustaTech@30:<br /><i>If conventional medicine doesn’t have enough markers and panels how would you suggest that we go about creating more? And what do you want the markers to be used for? Prognosis estimation, treatment planning, something else?</i></p> <p>JT, conventional medicine simply doesn't use enough of what panels and markers that it's already got. There are several problems. Clinical medicine is so used to shortcuts and assumptions for the broad field, that doctors seem unfamiliar with a lot of useful literature and extended analyses in detail in any specific area. With the extra lab data, a lot of minor problems that can unravel you are easier to spot, delineate and/or adjust. </p> <p>The extra markers improve monitoring and detection. problem detail, prognosis estimation and alteration, treatment planning and targeting - as much of the whole enchilada as one can research.</p> <p>Of course I'll hear "cost", "overdiagnosis", "polypharmacy", "futility", "iatrogenic risks", (assuumed) "net benefit" (of assumed tretments) etc. These objections more reflect the problems of the current conventional medical models than (alternate medical) reality to me. </p> <p>Also I'm finding that some panels are already run. Even if I didn't initially ask for them, some are recoverable after the initial results are in, or that they were running them anyway.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354679&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kXoiNHefpyup2hbw2-7SN6MVafa9vW561g-s5vKQNP4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354679">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354680" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488890632"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>if ONLY the problem was limited to the Cleveland Clinic.</p> <p>If only...<a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/07/alternative-medicine-hospitals-promote/">https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/07/alternative-medicine-hospitals-prom…</a></p> <p>Deep Throat advice is more relevant than ever; "Follow the money!"</p> <p>SMH!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354680&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="keEAU3gEMhJusf-awzrVw2d2h7rKohoDQOvKGVQV8PY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Francois (not verified)</span> on 07 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354680">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1354681" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1492850507"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There are pros and cons of every issue, and there are always are some that twist things around as a money making scheme. As an RN working with the geriatric population, I wish we could all come together and find a happy medium. My patients are prescribed beneficial medicine, but are receiving little to no education on their nutrition and exercises plans. I feel like a better plan for all of us would be to go back to the basics of nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress relief, and hydration. And then on top of that, we could educate the children and families of these patients to help further the prevention of diseases. I believe functional medicine's core is getting back to these basic underlying issues, and although it might not be as scientific or glamorous, I feel that these are the basic components that the general population need help with to increase their quality of life.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1354681&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E-4Pr7CoqvD_qbGDOOpCBloIeOn1SgR0oDUj2EvuFy8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jennifer (not verified)</span> on 22 Apr 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1354681">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/03/01/disruptive-functional-medicine-at-the-cleveland-clinic-disrupting-medicine-by-mixing-quackery-with-it%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 01 Mar 2017 02:00:14 +0000 oracknows 22502 at https://scienceblogs.com The Cleveland Clinic doubles down on its support for quackademic medicine disguised as "wellness" https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/18/the-ceo-of-the-cleveland-clinic-defends-its-quackademic-medicine <span>The Cleveland Clinic doubles down on its support for quackademic medicine disguised as &quot;wellness&quot;</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've been pretty hard on The Cleveland Clinic over the years, but justifiably so. After all, The Cleveland Clinic is one of the leading centers of quackademic medicine in the US; i.e., an academic medical center that studies and uses quackery as though it were legitimate medicine. Of course, this is a problem that is not in any way limited to The Cleveland Clinic. A decade ago, I tried to keep track of which academic medical centers had "complementary and alternative medicine" (CAM) or "integrative medicine" programs that integrated quackery like acupuncture, chiropractic, naturopathy, reiki, and even homeopathy into their medicine in a little list that I liked to refer to as the "Academic Woo Aggregator." However, that little list didn't remain little for long, and soon I found the Academic Woo Aggregator to be too difficult to maintain and I gave it up. Sadly, the reason was that there were just too many medical schools and academic medical centers that embrace quackademic medicine.</p> <p>Since then, the situation has only gotten worse as the number of academic medical centers embracing pseudoscience has skyrocketed, with The Cleveland Clinic arguably leading the way. For instance, it was, as far as I know, the first to actually integrate a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/24/quackademic-medicine-takes-it-to-the-next-level-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">traditional Chinese medicine herbal clinic into its offerings</a>. That same year, it hired Mark Hyman, MD of "Ultrawellness" fame to <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">open its Center for Functional Medicine</a>. "Functional medicine," recall, is basically a form of quackery that combines one of the worst aspects of conventional medicine (over testing, except that functional medicine makes the over-testing we see in conventional medicine look puny and quaint by comparison) with a whole lot of "<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/18/the-quackery-of-so-called-functional-medicine-making-it-up-as-you-go-along/">make it up as you go along</a>" <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/12/05/what-functional-medicine-really-is/">quackery</a> to "correct" abnormal lab tests and remove "toxins" in the name of "<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/10/14/medscape-enables-functional-medicine-quackery/">biochemical individuality</a>," which functional medicine fetishizes above all else and uses as an excuse to do just about anything. Sometimes the quackery of functional medicine <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/06/24/the-mend-protocol-for-alzheimers-disease-functional-medicine-on-steroids-revisited/">reaches truly ridiculous proportions</a>. Unfortunately, functional medicine has been <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">wildly successful at the Clinic</a>.</p> <!--more--><p>So I was only somewhat surprised last week when a social media kerfuffle erupted over the publication of what can only be described as an antivaccine screed by Daniel Neides, MD, the director of The Cleveland Clinic's Wellness Institute. It was a screed that would not have been the least bit out of place on antivaccine websites like Age of Autism, NaturalNews.com, The Thinking Moms' Revolution, or the like. This incident led me to ask: What the heck do you expect? <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/09/antivaccine-pseudoscience-at-the-cleveland-clinic-thats-what-happens-when-you-allow-magical-thinking-to-take-hold/">That's what happens when you embrace quackery</a>, particularly when a lot of it is "detox" quackery, a prominent component of functional medicine, naturopathy, and the like. Given that a lot of antivaccine pseudoscience is based on the idea that vaccines are full of "toxins," there's a natural affinity between antivaccine beliefs and any form of pseudomedicine that embraces "detoxification." And, make no mistake, The Cleveland Clinic embraces "detox," even <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/10/a-cleveland-clinic-doctors-antivaccine-rant/">selling such products on its website</a>, while Dr. Neides is <a href="https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cleveland-clinic-spewed-antivaccine-misinformation/">very much into "detox" quackery</a> himself.</p> <p>In the wake of the controversy, The Cleveland Clinic issued a statement that it really, truly supports vaccination and promised that Dr. Neides would be "disciplined." It also suffered <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2017/01/vaccines_toxins_and_autism_experts_weigh_in_on_controversial_column_by_cleveland_clinic_doctor.html">tsunami of negative pres</a>s, with bloggers like me taking it to task for its quackademic medicine, refreshingly (to me, at least) joined by a handful of mainstream news organizations like <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/01/11/doctor-questions-the-pseudoscience-of-the-cleveland-clinic/">The Washington Post</a> and <a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/09/hospitals-embrace-alternative-medicine/">STAT News</a> where reporters didn't miss the broader picture of how the culture of pseudoscience at The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institutes facilitates antivaccine views. In any event, a few days ago, I figured the controversy was finished but still held out hope that it will spark some intrepid health reporter somewhere to look into the wider problem of quackery in academic medicine.</p> <p>Apparently, I was mistaken. It wasn't over. Worse, instead of admitting its mistake, The Cleveland Clinic is doubling down on its promotion of quackery because, apparently, Toby Cosgrove, MD, CEO of The Cleveland Clinic, is unhappy at the negative press. As a result, he wanted to defend his hospital's Wellness Institute and decided to do so in an opinion piece released by The Cleveland Clinic Newsroom entitled <a href="https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2017/01/13/vaccines-wellness-healthier-america/">Vaccines, Wellness and a Healthier America</a>. The whole post is evidence of how conventional physicians can be seduced by the tropes of "integrative medicine" to the point of parroting its propaganda.</p> <p>Dr. Cosgrove starts out by observing that smoking, poor diet, and lack of exercise were the leading factors that led patients to requiring his service as a cardiac surgeon, all of which is true enough. No one—and I mean no one—with any credibility denies this. Indeed, no one denies this other than the doctor caricatures who are portrayed as denying that diet or exercise can be used to improve health. These caricatures are constructed by quacks and most commonly utilized by proponents of "integrative medicine" to denigrate what they disparagingly call "conventional medicine." Of course, primary care doctors do prevention every day and try very hard to get their patients to stop smoking, eat a healthier diet, and exercise. It's very difficult to succeed when patient visits are so short, constrained by the economics of reimbursement for medical services. So, yes, certainly "conventional medicine" could do a better job at helping patients use lifestyle interventions to improve their health, but no it's a caricature to claim that medicine is all about "sick care" and not "wellness." None of that stops CAM advocates from pointing to conventional medicine's shortcomings in this area and invoking a false dichotomy in which it is necessary to embrace quackery in order to promote "wellness." It's a key talking point frequently invoked by advocates. Although he doesn't say it explicitly, it's implicitly clear from Dr. Cosgrove's editorial that he buys into this false dichotomy or that he doesn't understand that much of what is being "integrated" with diet, exercise, and smoking cessation is rank quackery. If all The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute were doing was promoting healthy eating, smoking cessation, and exercise, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it.</p> <p>Let's get to Dr. Cosgrove's op-ed. First, Dr. Cosgrove has to deny most vociferously that there are any elements in his institution that are antivaccine:</p> <blockquote><p> Historically, healthcare has not done a good job of promoting disease prevention. Our Wellness Institute has built a framework to guide patients to healthier lifestyle choices. However, in a recent online column, the Wellness Institute’s medical director shared his personal views about vaccination – views that do not represent Cleveland Clinic in any way.</p> <p>Vaccinations are a key component to preventing disease and maintaining a healthy society. There is no debating that; the research is clear. To say otherwise is irresponsible and runs counter to Cleveland Clinic’s commitment to evidence-based medicine.</p> <p>Deadly, debilitating diseases like polio, smallpox and measles are no longer the threats they once were, thanks to vaccines. In fact, according to Healthy People 2020, routine childhood immunization (DTap, Td, Hib, Polio, MMR, Hep B, and varicella vaccines) saves 33,000 lives, prevents 14 million cases of disease, and reduces direct health care costs by $9.9 billion.</p> <p>Harmful myths, untruths and junk science about vaccinations have been scientifically debunked. Serious adverse effects are incredibly rare. And there is no demonstrated link between autism and vaccination. </p></blockquote> <p>So far, so good. This is about as unequivocal a rejection of Dr. Neides' ignorant antivaccine nonsense as one could expect from the CEO of any internationally known academic medical center. True, I can't help but note that Dr. Cosgrove hasn't said exactly what action he's decided to take against Dr. Neides, even though it's been well over a week since his antivaccine column made national news. Clearly Dr. Neides hasn't been fired yet (which would be appropriate), or likely we would have heard about it. Presumably he has suffered some "discipline" less than firing. I also know that Dr. Cosgrove did send out a mass e-mail to Cleveland Clinic employees instructing them not to speak or write publicly in situations where their speech might be construed as representing the position of The Cleveland Clinic, which is what Dr. Neides did.</p> <p>The Cleveland Clinic has apparently also <a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/cleveland-clinic-wellness-institute/">initiated action</a> that appears designed far more to give the appearance of concrete action to correct the problems that led to someone like Dr. Neides feeling comfortable publishing antivaccine rants under The Cleveland Clinic's logo than to actually do something substantive:</p> <blockquote><p> After the director of its Wellness Institute was forced to walk back an anti-vaccine blog post over the weekend, the Cleveland Clinic revealed Monday that it has already spent months reevaluating the institute’s focus and expects to halt the sale of some alternative medicine products.</p> <p>Clinic spokeswoman Eileen Shiel told STAT that hospital administrators are concerned that the institute’s focus has grown too unwieldy and less connected to the clinic’s broader mission of providing the best, evidence-based medicine and services to patients. She said the wellness center will likely stop selling some of its commercial products, such as homeopathy kits sold in the gift shop of its suburban Lyndhurst location, and move toward general wellness programs that would improve diet and lifestyle decisions by patients and its own employees. </p></blockquote> <p>Yes, The Cleveland Clinic <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/10/a-cleveland-clinic-doctors-antivaccine-rant/">sells a homeopathic detox</a> kit on its own website. It has also <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/26/quackademic-medicine-tightens-its-hold-on-the-cleveland-clinic/">begun offering pure quackery</a> like reiki, craniosacral therapy, myofascial release, and acupuncture to children. It even offers the "energy medicine" quackery that is "therapeutic touch" to babies. Let me repeat that: The Cleveland Clinic subjects <strong><em>babies</em></strong> to rank quackery.</p> <p>What would have served Dr. Cosgrove best would have been to stop with the statement defending vaccines, but he just couldn't do it. Of course he couldn't! He just started his column bragging about how important the Wellness Institute is to The Cleveland Clinic, how <em><strong>he</strong></em> had established it in 2007 and "placed its leader in the C-suite with the title of Chief Wellness Officer." He couldn't let the criticism go. The Wellness Institute and the Center for Functional Medicine are Cosgrove's babies. He owns them. That's why he had to pivot rapidly and complain about those of us who didn't miss the broader point about The Cleveland Clinic's embrace of quackery:</p> <blockquote><p> Still, critics have used the column to disparage the Wellness Institute as a whole and the concept of wellness in general. </p></blockquote> <p>Gee, Dr. Cosgrove. You say that as though it were a <em>bad</em> thing. Actually, Dr. Cosgrove's whine contains only <em><strong>half</strong></em> a straw man. First, as to the charge of using Dr. Neides' column as a jumping off point to "disparage" the Wellness Institute, I plead guilty as charged—and proud of it! The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute is a cesspit of quackery mixed with more reasonable and evidence based treatments, and I have no qualms about pointing out how if you embrace "detox" quackery, antivaccine quackery can't be far behind. I'm also very happy to see that at least a couple of mainstream news outlets started to "grok" the general outlines of that point. Second, as for disparaging "the concept of wellness in general"? Er, not so much. Here, Dr. Cosgrove is disingenuously conflating criticism of the quackery that the Wellness Institute has "integrated" with sensible advice on diet, exercise, and smoking cessation with "disparagement" of wellness in general. The two are not the same thing, and what is being "disparaged" is the amount of pseudoscience passing for medicine under the auspices of the Clinic's Wellness Institute, not the concept of wellness in general.</p> <p>Dr. Cosgrove then goes on to use an appeal to need to justify the Wellness Institute by arguing that chronic disease is rampant (which is, of course, true, given the obesity epidemic and the general aging of the population) and that health care costs are on track to reach 20% of the the GDP by 2024, which is also true. The rest, however, is a non sequitur. It does not follow from these observations that what Dr. Cosgrove is doing at The Cleveland Clinic is the answer. True, some of what the Wellness Institute does can help:</p> <blockquote><p> At Cleveland Clinic, the Wellness Institute works hand-in-hand with the Medicine Institute to help patients and employees change unhealthy behaviors and to make healthy life choices. These goals align with public health initiatives set by the CDC, such as immunizations, safe healthy food, smoking cessation, control of infectious disease, and a focus on heart disease and stroke. </p></blockquote> <p>Yes, they do, and, again, <strong><em>no one</em></strong> is criticizing The Cleveland Clinic or its Wellness Institute for promoting these things. These are the interventions that <em>every</em> science-based hospital <em>should</em> be promoting. They are the default. No one argues against them. What we do argue against is the quackery that the Wellness Institute, as unwittingly admitted by Dr. Cosgrove himself, promotes:</p> <blockquote><p> Some approaches may be considered unconventional, but most – acupuncture, yoga, Chinese herbal medicine, guided imagery and relaxation techniques – have scientific backing. We have heard from our patients that they want more than conventional medicine can offer and we believe it is best that they undertake these alternative therapies under the guidance of their Cleveland Clinic physician. </p></blockquote> <p>No, no, no, no, no. <a href="http://www.dcscience.net/Colquhoun-Novella-A&amp;A-2013.pdf">Acupuncture is a theatrical placebo</a>. Yoga is fine, but nothing more than a form of gently exercise overlaid with Eastern mysticism. It has nothing special to offer compared to other forms of exercise. Guided imagery might have some evidence, as might relaxation techniques, but, again, they're being lumped together with the quackery. The most telling statement is the last one, however. I'd rephrase it, though: We at The Cleveland Clinic know that patients want this quackery, and we know we can make money selling it to affluent suburbanites in Beachwood, Shaker Heights, and Pepper Pike. So we will sell it, but we will assuage our consciences by telling ourselves that the best "safe" way to provide the quackery to patients is through our facility and that our embrace of pseudoscience is "justified by the magnitude of the disease challenge."</p> <p>And that the Cleveland Clinic is <a href="https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2017/01/13/vaccines-wellness-healthier-america/">somehow doing cutting edge research</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> In the meantime, we will move the science forward. Our Center for Functional Medicine is the first in the country to conduct research studies on the impact of functional medicine when combined with traditional approaches for certain disease – asthma, inflammatory bowel disease and diabetes. </p></blockquote> <p>OK, my irony meter melted down here. Remember how Dr. Cosgrove, reassuringly, started his column by saying how pro-vaccine The Cleveland Clinic is and how all the horrible things about vaccines written by Dr. Neides in his column do not represent the position of The Cleveland Clinic? Throw that all out the window, because, whether he realizes it or not, Dr. Cosgrove's embrace of Dr. Hyman and functional medicine completely contradicts his previous pro-vaccine statements, as does his bragging about the Clinic's Center for Functional Medicine is supposedly doing cutting edge research into asthma, inflammatory bowel disease, and diabetes. Does Dr. Cosgrove have even clue one that Dr. Mark Hyman, the guru of functional medicine that <em>he</em> hired to found the Center for Functional Medicine co-authored a an antivaccine book of the thimerosal/mercury fear mongering variety with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. in 2014, right around the time that the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">Cleveland Clinic hired him</a>? Yes, that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/11/donald-trump-meets-with-antivaccine-ideologue-robert-f-kennedy-jr/">one with whom Donald Trump met last week</a> to discuss "<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/13/no-robert-f-kennedy-jr-is-not-a-vaccine-skeptic/">vaccine safety</a>," thereby alarming physicians, medical professionals, and public health officials throughout the country and provoking a firestorm of justifiably outraged criticism. Does Dr. Cosgrove know that Dr. Hyman even <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/12/has-dr-oz-become-antivaccine/">appeared on <em>The Dr. Oz Show</em> with RFK Jr.</a> to promote their antivaccine book a mere 10 days before <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/09/cleveland_clinic_to_open_cente.html">The Cleveland Clinic announced</a> that it had hired Dr. Hyman to found its functional medicine center.</p> <p>I don't buy it. I'd really love to ask him personally what he knew about Dr. Hyman and when, but my gut tells me that there's no way he didn't know about Dr. Hyman's antivaccine book with RFK Jr. Indeed, it stretches credibility to the extreme to believe that Dr. Cosgrove didn't know about the appearance of someone he had just hired to found a high profile Cleveland Clinic Center on a nationally syndicated TV show with one of the icons of the antivaccine movement to promote the antivaccine book that they had co-authored together. Clearly, Dr. Cosgrove was either ignorant that they were antivaccine or fine with Dr. Hyman's views then, or at least Dr. Hyman's antivaccine propaganda didn't bother the oh-so-pious pro-vaccine Dr. Cosgrove enough for him to scuttle the launch of the Center for Functional Medicine or to tell Dr. Hyman to zip it. Nor did Dr. Hyman's long history of <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/08/dr-mark-hyman-mangles-autism-science-on/&lt;">mangling autism science and clinical treatment based on antivaccine preconceptions</a> appear to bother Dr. Cosgrove. If Dr. Cosgrove knew about these things and hired Dr. Hyman anyway, that's medical malpractice in my book. If he didn't know about these things, then it was an utter failure of basic due diligence.</p> <p>So I call BS on Dr. Cosgrove's self-righteous indignation and his assertion that The Cleveland Clinic under his leadership is so very, very pro-vaccine. That's not to say that the vast majority of physicians and other health care professionals working at the Clinic aren't pro-vaccine. I have no doubt that they are. It is, however, to say that Dr. Cosgrove doth protest too much. He championed the Wellness Institute. He turned a blind eye to Dr. Hyman's antivaccine views. He now claims that he is shocked—shocked, I say—to find an antivaccine loon in charge of his Wellness Institute. Now that said antivaccine loon has publicly embarrassed The Cleveland Clinic, Dr. Cosgrove seeks to reassure the public (and perhaps himself) that Dr. Neides is an anomaly. Taken over the whole Cleveland Clinic physician population, I have no doubt that he is. Taken over the providers at the Wellness Institute, I'd bet that he isn't. We just won't hear from them publicly again because they'll know now to keep their mouths shut.</p> <p>All of this is why I call BS on Dr. Cosgrove and assertion that The Cleveland Clinic is as pro-vaccine as he says it is and will continue to do so as long as Dr. Hyman has an important position within the organization that Dr. Cosgrove runs. If I see Dr. Hyman fired, the Center for Functional Medicine disbanded, and the Wellness Institute purged of traditional Chinese medicine, naturopathy, chiropractic, craniosacral therapy, and its other quackery that tends to align with antivaccine views and focus only on diet, exercise, and help stopping the use of substances that contribute to chronic disease (like smoking), then—and only then—would I start to think that maybe—just maybe—Dr. Cosgrove is serious about not permitting antivaccine views at The Cleveland Clinic.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Wed, 01/18/2017 - 00:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy" hreflang="en">Homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/daniel-neides" hreflang="en">Daniel Neides</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackademic-medicine" hreflang="en">quackademic medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/toby-cosgrove" hreflang="en">Toby Cosgrove</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccine" hreflang="en">vaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/wellness-institute" hreflang="en">Wellness Institute</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350750" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484721722"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>To the extent "functional medicine" reflects disparaged therapeutic nutrition, it might be an institutional survival reflex to keep customers and attract more business. </p> <p>Although I cringe over the terminology and supposed models of many marketing pitches for various parts of therapeutic nutrition, many nutrients do involve benefits that need to enter or displace backwards hospital nutrition practice. </p> <p>Conventional medicine either reforms on therapeutic nutrition or loses its paying customers. Maybe Cleveland Clinic will be a leader and evolve toward the most beneficial parts. </p> <p>For the "skeptic" diehards, good luck with all the no pays who are stuck with 20th century superstitions and medical politics...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350750&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FHU2wIqmPj-F8YPsplPdTDoc0i9i2uZEmu9Trqb0j9A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350750">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350751" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484722483"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>And that the Cleveland Clinic is somehow doing cutting edge research</p></blockquote> <p><em>Marketing</em> research. The Lies ARE the Product. Whatever sells best to the vast market of all those who WANT to be lied to.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350751&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iWKmHGdUFagxhV37shM6VA6jIya1n9gNi8HF1Jn4Xx8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">has (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350751">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350752" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484723073"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Cosgrove may have taken some acts out of the show, but he still has a way to go. By imitating the menus of clinical institutions in China, he may be hoping to set up satellite operations in Shanghai or perhaps the smog-ridden real estate of Beijing. So, the acupuncture stays, but the homeopathic detox kits in the store could go. None of that changes the fact that what he and Hyman have concoted is an Institute of Dysfunctional Medicine with steaming piles of pseudoscience to go.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350752&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tEE89nykuj0eSVQpbTjXgnGihNzsVXOFpsZbL84_eyk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350752">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350753" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484723295"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@prn: I can see that straw man from orbit. Certain nutritional interventions are indeed science-based, and science-based medical doctors routinely do recommend them to their patients. But there is also a lot of dietary woo out there: supplements, gluten-free diets (for people not actually diagnosed with celiac disorders), "detox" regimens, and so forth. Orac has always made this distinction clear, and there is nothing inherently wrong or logically inconsistent about supporting science-based nutritional interventions while rejecting the woo.</p> <p>There is also a difference between a businessman selling woo, and a research hospital selling woo. The former has identified a market niche and is exploiting it; he does not necessarily have the background to know that what he is selling is woo (though if he is selling homeopathic remedies, he should). Research hospitals are supposed to be on the forefront of medicine, and they should know better than to indulge in woo. The FDA can also come down hard on a woo-pusher who goes too far. With hospitals, you are counting on the typically spineless state licensing boards to enforce standards.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350753&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r8-cHk9zPZ2RWjUqZ4R9KYUll_99pzpVL35Zq8OtoAE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350753">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350754" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484729780"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"For the “skeptic” diehards, good luck with all the no pays who are stuck with 20th century superstitions and medical politics…"</p> <p>So we should push 18th and 19th century healing superstitions on folks because they want them?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350754&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uzS2Ah5NXs-mlegAsRP_Vj0s4R1Hce1I-EZdR048EgM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vincent Iannelli, MD (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350754">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1350756" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484730023"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Those, and healing superstitions dating back to Hippocrates and earlier as well. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350756&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R_PNG-0b6iYr49ZBGi3pbH3vP1jek4ucE-hnsWWeoGM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350756">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1350754#comment-1350754" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vincent Iannelli, MD (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350755" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484729839"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It seems to be taken as a given that these wellness centers are at least helpful in promoting lifestyle improvements. I question even that. I expect they are successful at attracting patients who are already healthier and those who are more motivated to make changes. Thus any apparent improvement in health may just be down to selection bias. Has anyone ever done a study based on intent to treat that shows these centers are good at anything other than sucking wallets dry?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350755&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3FBtzHbV-gXprNwVTAnISZjwWSE31DG_VxVjFBPvtQI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">BKsea (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350755">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350757" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484732987"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Last year my wife who has hypoactive thyroid switch to desiccated thyroid from thyroxine and she has never felt better I think you're ignorant for bashing homeopathic remedies that have been around for longer than recorded human history some of them work some of them don't who's supposed to be a man of science not a naysayer quit acting like a douchebag</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350757&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6gpFxuQFy07ODh8I6PnpfqpIt0k6DSNfI5fbwMOQcAY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brandon Tracy (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350757">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1350758" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484733955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You do realize, don't you, that homeopathy was only invented in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann? It's only been around 221 years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350758&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ediNHWg5U3v-JYZk_bn_E5o2h2Av-IV4mHF3hO3Jvic"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350758">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1350757#comment-1350757" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brandon Tracy (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350759" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484734255"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>We have heard from our patients that they want more than conventional medicine can offer and we believe it is best that they undertake these alternative therapies under the guidance of their Cleveland Clinic physician. </p></blockquote> <p>And any physician could tell you that they have heard from some of their patients that they want more than their doctor is offering, such as Valium, Oxycontin, Percocet and Fentanyl.</p> <p>An esteemed institute like the Cleveland Clinic is supposed to be a leader. What a joke.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350759&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yTKoPzNzv4I0ZVoPdAdE4deIv88h-ZLBL7tLkuOXn9U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350759">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350760" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484734367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Brandon:<br /> You might want to see a gynecologist for those missed periods.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350760&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4TAyuJuWX8TyXSkm131y9i0pHgKK4ftGxPzk6IRUuc0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350760">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350761" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484734807"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Last year my wife who has hypoactive thyroid switch to desiccated thyroid from thyroxine and she has never felt better I think you’re ignorant for bashing homeopathic remedies...</i><br /> That's not a homeopathic remedy.</p> <p>TBruce for the win.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350761&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sXx7y8GQY1ShoaWl27doGcKMzNV_J6wJwBa9gjwt8Pw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350761">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350762" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484737080"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, I do love my herbs and herbal teas.<br /> They cure me of bland food and drinks. :)</p> <p>Although, I do have to keep an eye out on which ones I try that are new to me, lest I get an odd interaction with my real medicines.<br /> Which means, I'll avoid kale tea, as I am being treated by an endocrinologist for hyperthyroidism. Just as a singular example.<br /> But, I think I'll enjoy a nice artichoke tea with lunch. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350762&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MH5es-n-xyw-JZeOT_6MxwRnJgJ6Juu_94qHocRHEVs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350762">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350763" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484740413"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>It’s only been around 222 years</p></blockquote> <p>A person with a 222 in a prominent position in their numerology chart is likely to be concerned about others.</p> <p>Coincidence? I think not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350763&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5mnw6hKgVLBIRi_onGtute0X9W4vlfeI68VN366Hq5Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chuck Niwrad (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350763">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350764" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484741711"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@TBruce: Oh Snap!</p> <p>Well, at the risk of embarrassment, I'll tell on myself. Orac's comment about the Cleveland Clinic doing Therapeutic Touch on babies, stirred a memory my friends are still teasing me about to this day.</p> <p>When I was in my BSN program, I needed to fill out my schedule, so I took an elective called Therapeutic Touch for one credit hour. The professor was one of my favorites on the faculty (ironically, she also taught my Nursing Research class). </p> <p>My sister had just had her first child, and she had a terrible time with colic. My sister will call me, expressing such frustration, I would come over and use TT on the baby just to get her (my sister) to calm down. Every time, my niece would stop crying, look at me, and let out a massive fart (sometimes followed by a massive poo). Every single time.</p> <p>Don't get me wrong. I never thought I changed her "energy patterns" or "flow" to cure her colic. She probably just wondered what the hell I was doing and relaxed just long enough for her bowels to do their job. </p> <p>The problem went away for good when I finally convinced my sister to stop eating broccoli (she was breast feeding).</p> <p>Oh, but the look on my niece's face . . . .</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350764&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RaTp3NJjYKa1uN9jILrRuWevb2PtbpHDKUaRJnMBXwI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350764">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350767" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484747136"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Heh, two out of our three grandchildren had severe colic. Of the two, one was eventually diagnosed with reflux.<br /> I was the only one who could keep them from crying incessantly.<br /> I held them facing forward, one hand supporting chest and abdomen, going between the legs to support the buttocks, the other hand linked from the side, supporting the buttocks.<br /> Which had the effect of splinting the entire abdomen and thorax, relieving some of the discomfort of gas or reflux and at the same time, providing a varying view as I walked around, which also distracted them from their discomfort.</p> <p>I did help their energy flow though, preparing bottles, feeding them, burping them and changing soiled diapers. Gotta keep the chemical energy flow clear! ;)<br /> Or something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350767&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zgv9_SAF-5W9We3gUKnq_M_5uo6DpgAiZpr97_cm8bY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350767">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1350764#comment-1350764" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1350765" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484743910"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>A person with a 222 in a prominent position in their numerology chart is likely to be concerned about others.</p></blockquote> <p>Especially since I meant to type 221, given that homeopathy was first reported in 1796. Oh, well...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350765&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gab7i1mAzXAbSzV_HMFY0TXt-VIYcV0nldwlecJh8dM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350765">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350766" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484744119"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>So we should push 18th and 19th century healing superstitions on folks because they want them?</i></p> <p>If bleeding, blistering and purging were good enough for the founding fathers, they ought to be good enough for us!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350766&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qJl3Zm7upShb9Oj8bkQy_GR3z7ZsuLEy2dCSkIFqJuM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350766">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350769" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484747456"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If bleeding, blistering and purging were good enough for the founding fathers, they ought to be good enough for us!</p></blockquote> <p>Ah, for my wife, that'd be trivial. A bit of hot pepper exposure, all three would be her fate.<br /> She literally blisters on contact with an exposure to oleoresin capsicum.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350769&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GT-JU8foEv9eUBMm0AeHeqljGi6Jv_WkAV3HQ9kZl6M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350769">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1350766#comment-1350766" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350768" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484747154"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> combined with traditional approaches for certain disease – asthma, inflammatory bowel disease and diabetes. </i></p> <p>"Traditional approaches for asthma"? I think that's called "dying".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350768&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sdNq593vCeRzM_f0RfFkGjEpLrOyMQ5f18lgsbZp6LY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350768">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350770" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484748510"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@shay simmons:<br /> Certainly good enough for George Washington:<br /><a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/dec-14-1799-excruciating-final-hours-president-george-washington/">http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/dec-14-1799-excruciating-final-hour…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350770&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0s4aRTzCr-ONEsdBFDr0VQxBUcM_-Ti35VS8I9xsceY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350770">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350771" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484748652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Meanwhile, a pill with a 222 in a prominent position is likely to be concerned about others' pain. Well, as concerned as any inanimate object is capable of being.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350771&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lcPTft3RamrKNwnMLdXgw4AwTpAbzYDyNbbd4O5fVa4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard Smith (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350771">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350772" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484749444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And one with 223 in a prominent position would be concerned about inflicting pain in others.<br /> 5.56 times over.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350772&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XYAswYn-eeFIihzKzaFGaHYBYz-1D8yv4rz5QHqcht0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350772">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1350771#comment-1350771" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard Smith (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350773" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484749900"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: #8 - 12:<br /> In a lot of instances, "homeopathic" doctors clearly were doing nutrition and natural medicine, not the high purity water and sugar pills version.</p> <p>re #5, 6<br /> We are still arguing over the practical application of 20th century science like nutrition in medicine. </p> <p>Those from other fields of research slowly realize, often toward the end of their lives, how bad medicine has become in the application of <i>simple</i>, old 20th century science. Typically too late. There has been <b>a lot</b> of disappointment amongst my older friends with brand name MSM medicine, for suffering and wasting their time...</p> <p>Eric Lund@4<br /><i>...science-based medical doctors routinely do recommend them to their patients. </i><br /> So explain the grossly C and D deficient cancer patients that have been so common, if you (n)ever measure them.<br /> e.g. for 25 OH-D I mean 1-10 ng/ml.</p> <p><i>But there is also a lot of dietary woo out there: supplements, gluten-free diets (for people not actually diagnosed with celiac disorders), “detox” regimens, and so forth.</i> ... Orac has always made this distinction clear, and there is nothing inherently wrong or logically inconsistent about supporting science-based nutritional interventions while rejecting the woo. ... <i>necessarily have the background to know that what he is selling is woo</i><br /> More and more, (self)educated people realize MSM doctors are often biased charletons hostile against supplements, n=0 types with little or no training. Then people seek other information sources. Sometimes they err about who and how for a particular problem.</p> <p><i>Research hospitals are supposed to be on the forefront of medicine, and they should know better than to indulge in woo. </i><br /> In America, businesses have long been recognized that it is more profitable to woo customers. ;&gt;</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350773&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="A4c88E2odeAv1ESYgphwRfzKHw70gJ8n30cp0DQS8Bs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350773">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350774" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484749960"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"That’s not a homeopathic remedy."</p> <p>No, the homeopathic remedy for hypothyroidism is sea kelp - heavily diluted and vigorously shaken...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350774&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gyMKwYPipUw8YRajpP2OlSMhvqWklSCU8HmwVSfXhAE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vincent Iannelli, MD (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350774">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350775" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484751128"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@prn</p> <p>I'll bite.<br /> So what exactly are deficiencies in vitamins C and D associated with? All cancers? Certain types of cancers? Cancer-related mortality?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350775&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tZkKIloOA_7aUWNQcyeRB_BBYUu3W94YWeB2WGK4LhQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ben (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350775">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350776" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484752263"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You do realize, don’t you, that homeopathy was only invented in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann? It’s only been around 221 years.</p></blockquote> <p>Ah, but homeopathy is based on ancient wisdom! Before Hahnemann coined the term, "homeopathic remedies that have been around for longer than recorded human history" were simply called "water."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350776&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_ZKkpNDJ5wQEZJPSLJwa14LRFrh4iUpSWqv63ZS4Gjc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350776">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350777" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484752391"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Especially since I meant to type 221</p></blockquote> <p>This is getting spooky. It's been 221 years <em>since</em> 1796, but this is the 222nd year of homeopathy. Try as you might, you just can't deny the power of numerology. "Homeopathic" has 11 letter times 2 = 22. Yes, 2017 will surely be the year of homeopathy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350777&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ypyNh0AQ1Um7uLV95B1gwzaMEPwb2KVY4Dku1F0zugc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chuck Niwrad (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350777">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350778" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484753103"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ben <i>I’ll bite.<br /> So what exactly are deficiencies in vitamins C and D associated with? All cancers? Certain types of cancers? </i><br /> In advanced colorectal patients near first diagnosis, vitamin D difficiency is almost a good marker, even in patients since ca 2009.<br /> Vitamin C difficiency symptoms are common amongst advanced cancer patients in many areas throughout, from dx to death if not aggressively treated. Blood data, or even urine data for C, are also commonly difficient...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350778&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B_E4vdkUo4wM7Bb6We43WTJU59eeqa82QyVaX_ag9wY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350778">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350784" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484764153"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vitamin C deficiency is easy enough to spot, as it causes scurvy.<br /> Vitamin D deficiency isn't uncommon in northern latitudes, my wife is on supplements due to osteoporosis and confirmed (by a real physician) vitamin D deficiency. As we also supplement our milk supply with vitamin A and D, it's less common than in the past, save in the elderly.<br /> Who, for some odd reason, tend toward cancers and would also test low for both vitamins, due to fixed income lowering their consumption of foods rich in said vitamins and a lower amount of outdoor activity.<br /> Note the well documented pathophysiological pathway that none would consider woo, as both vitamins are known to be deficient in the elderly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350784&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jC9gj5U5JtDQ8_hCE39_yPP-u9nhBQyeFGUyebHZuqc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350784">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1350778#comment-1350778" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350779" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484753941"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>More and more, (self)educated people realize MSM doctors are often biased charletons [sic] hostile against supplements, n=0 [sic] types with little or no training. </p></blockquote> <p>So much to unpack in one sentence. First, "self-educated" how, University of Google? Orac's archives are full of cautionary tales about the woo someone can get into by that route. Most people need a guide to get through recommendations, and the MD degree is specifically intended to signify that the recipient has been so trained. They aren't the only ones who have that training--my PCP is a PRN, not an MD. And I'll admit that some of them don't do the job so well, in particular the ones on the receiving end of Orac's Respectful Insolence. The good doctors will even recognize when they have reached the limits of their knowledge, and refer you to an appropriate specialist. Oddly, many woo practitioners never do that--can you say Dunning-Kruger?</p> <p>"Hostile against supplements": There are good reasons for that. In the US, supplements are specifically exempt from most FDA oversight as long as the seller is careful not to make specific medical claims about the product. That means the potency of the product can vary widely between manufacturing lots, and there is no systematic way of watching out for interactions with other products, whether they are other supplements or genuine pharmaceutical products. There have even been cases where a supplement actually contained a genuine pharmaceutical product. These supplements aren't cheap, either, and seldom if ever covered by insurance. It's almost as effective as drinking Chateau Lafitte Rothschild every night for giving you seriously overpriced urine.</p> <p>I'm not sure what the antecedent is for the last clause--are you referring to the doctors or the patients? The presumed typo "n=0" (I assume you meant "n=1") is almost Freudian, as you seem to disdain statistics as a method for making sense of data. I understand the reluctance to be thought of as a number, but seriously, unless you know it works for a bunch of people like you, how do you have any assurance that it will work for you? The alternative to statistics is to make data the plural of anecdote, which is not a good idea.</p> <p>Finally, the bit about "little or no training" makes sense if you are talking about the Google U. graduates--very few people who are not in the business have significant medical training--but earning the MD involves a fair amount of specific training. Whether that training is effective is a legitimate question, but it is required, and in both amount and rigor it far exceeds what you need for an ND (as Orac aptly calls it, "Not a Doctor") and certainly a BS.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350779&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lPB7Gk8eOUJFY4jTXAnFF78v9yNXdK6vMXVk30fKoZo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350779">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350780" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484754220"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>MSM doctors are often biased charletons</i></p> <p>Or BLOODY GREAT FOOTBALLERS!</p> <p><a href="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_03/bobjack2508_468x830.jpg">http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_03/bobjack2508_468x830.jpg</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350780&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Lm3NFZ4yYc8Q8_34Sbj5g2hY0Lq6jxVE1IZeiIrf4io"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Delphine (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350780">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350781" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484754280"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chuck's arguments somehow remind me of the infamous Indiana Pi Bill. It's easy to "prove" things with numerology: just wait for coincidences to pile up.</p> <p>For instance, I can "prove" that all numbers are interesting. The proof is by <i>reductio ad absurdam</i>: Assume that non-interesting numbers exist. It follows that there must be a smallest such number. But that's interesting! Therefore, all numbers must be interesting. QED.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350781&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8TITEVopBwZd_IirqHd7JODCS6jXtK-9XiXzGEr3O18"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350781">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350782" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484755424"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>it hired Mark Hyman, MD of “Ultrawellness” fame to open its Center for Functional Medicine.</i><br /> Hyman spends so much time schmoozing and attention-whoring with gossip / lifestyle columnists, inventing stories about his supposed celebrity clients, I am surprised he has any time left for the Clinic. Perhaps his role at the CFM does not require his actual presence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350782&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="14wQKhu_x_CszV4PY4R18Kynm1g3mmqk5rq14cKeDdk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350782">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1350783" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484756283"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It doesn't. He founded the clinic and sets its overall scope, guidelines, and programs, but running its day-to-day operations has been farmed out to a crony, Dr. Patrick Hanaway:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-r…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildl…</a></p> <p>After all, you couldn't expect Dr. Hyman to leave his glamorous surroundings to move to...<strong><em>Cleveland!</em></strong> So beneath his station! My understanding is that Dr. Hyman only sullies himself to set foot in Cleveland something like once a month or so, but he might be at The Cleveland Clinic even less often.</p> <p>Besides, Dr. Hyman has offices all over the country. The Institute for Functional Medicine, for example, has offices in Washington state and New Mexico and The UltraWellness Center in Massachusetts.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350783&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WZeyEg1GrdNFwadkIU4kLN6lbhaFzojcV3RMlOBRv-8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350783">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350785" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484776132"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Acupuncture has as much scientific backing as homeopathy: Zero.</p> <p>Artemisinin has as much to do with traditional Chinese Herbalism as a kite has to a satellite.</p> <p>Does the Cleveland Clinic know precisely what ingredients and from what source, they are dishing out to rich clients to enrich their "wellness".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350785&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tek_gznm4fxGkBd4S8FVtT6GUHxzcNhpS-eKZn4bk4o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Leigh Jackson (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350785">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350786" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484776376"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350786&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j2_WPPatk32ulu4syEYCroom2ROyxotCVeGQEkbcpQo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Leigh Jackson (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350786">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350787" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484780019"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lots of funny comments in this thread. Brightens the day. Kudos to Chuck especially for the numerology jokes. Unless he's being serious. But, I think not!</p> <p>Orac really nailed Cosgrove's rhetorical trcik of conflating his institute with "the concept of wellness in general." Are there any notable institutions offering 'wellness' programs trying to "do a better job at helping patients use lifestyle interventions to improve their health" without embracing quackery? I have healthcare from Kaiser, and get an occasional email about 'wellness', but that hardly qualifies as the kind of 'intervention' that can actually help people begin and stay with the diet and exercise 'interventions' a conscientious physician would recommend.</p> <p>Along those lines, I will make an objection to a minor point in the OP as I think it points to a deeper issue. I wouldn't say "Yoga has nothing special to offer compared to other forms of exercise." The language is ambiguous as to whether "other" means "all other" or just "some other". Certainly there are other forms of exercise that also offer what yoga does and most exercise doesn't: a more psychological component similar to relaxation. mediation, guided imagery, or CBT/DBT exercies, for that matter. That is, yoga is not just physical exercise. While the way yoga goes about that psychological element has no appeal to me, I can appreciate the concept, and wouldn't pooh-pooh it's benefits for those who can appreciate it. it points to how 'wellness' should differ from the diet and execise advice you get from your PCP: it doesn't just tell you what you should do, but actually helps you do it. Also, more broadly, a proper concept of 'wellness' embraces not just physical health, but mental health. If yoga helps folks keep their heads straight better than hitting a stairmaster, that's worth something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350787&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kePmd8YI-viKi23DpmaUHHHucVSRUxmXB-7hCl1y3eI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350787">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350788" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484799230"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Panacea</p> <p>If fraught parents are to be pacified by the infliction of woo upon their babies, for poo's sake, let it be therapeutic touch, and not acupuncture as is common practice in Scandinavia.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350788&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="esIyxP8_ZFIKI51SAZNAq9XhQtqOw1viDLOgWXIOl5w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Leigh Jackson (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350788">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350789" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484813476"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Leigh: No joke :( I just read Orac's post for today on that.</p> <p>Oh my ever loving God.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350789&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6P8oqy79WYv1Mc_YhRDyfYmlRt52WoPFQth2jx9qRGg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 19 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350789">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350790" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484828821"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Speaking of Hyman, antivaxxers and those people...</p> <p>The Shadow Network of Anti-Vax Doctors<br /><a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/01/when-the-doctor-is-a-vaccine-skeptic/513383/">https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/01/when-the-doctor-is-a…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350790&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8jg0bKsIl9MjBY9MbBu2cgoU9HjtsNzwGqxw1cF3Ozs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Francois (not verified)</span> on 19 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350790">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350791" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484832576"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Eric Lund (#33)<br /> To be nitpicky, that proof requires there be a least element for any arbitrary set of numbers, which is true if we restrict ourselves to natural numbers (1,2,3,...) but not for many other sets we are familiar with (integers, rationals, reals). Now, according to the well-ordering theorem we can construct an artificial order on any set so that the least element always exists, but it doesn't tell us how to go about doing it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350791&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ThryjNXDCKJG-dJnExkUTkxmcWT6YQbIW8yl4xsqzvU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span> on 19 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350791">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350792" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484862501"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wellness as something apart from medical care?</p> <p>My doctor always asks me about diet and exercise when I go there. My medical insurance provider offers subsidised entry to health programs. I can even get a cut price fitbit. </p> <p>They are doing this because they understand that getting their members off their arses and out doing stuff cuts down on medical bills - particularly those expensive ones.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350792&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9nVhk_wKbOruWYrYiIXTSOd9rSd2wNJhFo5FbU0g7oM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 19 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350792">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350793" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485003551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If patients want nutritional advice and therapy, it is difficult for an MD to offer it in a 15-minute office visit. Physicians do not have time to carry out a full analysis of a person's diet and offer specific recommendations. We do have other health professionals trained to do exactly that: registered dieticians. There are dieticians at the Cleveland Clinic and at every major health system. Sadly, their services are poorly covered by insurance even though they cost a fraction of an MD visit. Coverage of dietician services could replace quackademic medicine and probably lower total costs while improving care.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350793&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ki-BWwQt37CV_0UGC__tCrvlO0cfyUg7OwRggjHHP7U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul Ernsberger (not verified)</span> on 21 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350793">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350794" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485083952"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Eric, n=0 refers to MSM doctors' and skeptics' experience levels and tests with nutrients and formulations for CAM, e.g. IV vitamin C, say 30 - 60 grams C/ meter2 per infusion, up to several times a day for viral infections. There are virtually no relevant MSM "high quality" test data or papers allowed in the major US journals for the past 65-70 years. More recently, some for cancer. Cancer is a much more difficult application vs the easy acute viral ones.</p> <p>"N=0" authors often quote irrelevant low dose, inadequate period tests or low dose oral tests as failures of that treatment category. Truth is, they have no relevant data. While IV vitamin C admirers have sparse data, they actually do have data and observations against the naysayers' nada. </p> <p>A lot of your arguments are handwringing. Any idiot can pay far too much - look at even US generic drugs; supplements are typically available at affordable prices from many places. Modern QA/QC with known supplement suppliers provide many reliable sources. MSM drugs injure and kill <b>orders of magnitude more</b> people.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350794&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f56rmXwJnulySevDcFi7P-wsi3CayFO5QIf0bVTwRBo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 22 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350794">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350795" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485084662"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Paul@44<br /> Registered dieticians are typically far behind on therapeutic nutrition for serious illness. Even some of their own literature admits that their version of therapeutic nutrition is in its early stages. </p> <p>I have seen substantial differences between average BS level personnel and texts vs <i>some</i> PhD level RDs and advances graduate references. </p> <p>Outside a minority of PhDs, RDs were still disconnected from reality about the high dose stuff last time I looked (several years ago). So useless to me and mine for serious, fast(er) results.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350795&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s5IqrF5EN-0BXMPBhHRRFQv-ZiZlUVKEEqDpUlZuy6c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 22 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350795">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350796" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485092095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Outside a minority of PhDs, RDs were still disconnected from reality about the high dose stuff last time I looked (several years ago). </p></blockquote> <p>You say that like it's a bad thing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350796&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mka8zoOVtW8M_qqfuGk7Xfy4fX8lGucfBVP12LpISxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 22 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350796">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350797" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485122934"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>prn: Registered dieticians are well aware of nutritional quackery. That is why they do not recommend it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350797&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3oYzetlo1TkLwkdkxtRCjVgyJLpiVa7xssmfWqa5uNs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul Ernsberger (not verified)</span> on 22 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350797">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350798" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485245168"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The way you say it, your statements sound biased and faith based. Some biochemically savvy ND versions will be taking a lot business from purblind RDs. Total RD roadkill.</p> <p>Even in my limited experience, I've seen gross RD nutritional failures in nursing home, hospital, and diabetics then succeed with methods closer to ND nutrition. </p> <p>Doctrinaire RD advice with fails prescriptively, predictively and methodologically.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350798&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MvaQWTDUHrMUTPPz0VMfcyXEkYZ_fdErrXWi72lC7NE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 24 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350798">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1350799" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1485575362"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey! I work in this building. The new facility is gorgeous yes?</p> <p>I am all for diversity in medicine. You men need to stop your infighting and look out for the common good.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1350799&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UeSa7xDkVpyLWpdOcXsBerW90GhYUSBTTkPaCv3vkpI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sandra D. (not verified)</span> on 27 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1350799">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/01/18/the-ceo-of-the-cleveland-clinic-defends-its-quackademic-medicine%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 18 Jan 2017 05:00:27 +0000 oracknows 22473 at https://scienceblogs.com A Cleveland Clinic doctor's antivaccine rant: Facilitated by a culture of pseudoscience and published with the knowledge of the Clinic's communications office https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/10/a-cleveland-clinic-doctors-antivaccine-rant <span>A Cleveland Clinic doctor&#039;s antivaccine rant: Facilitated by a culture of pseudoscience and published with the knowledge of the Clinic&#039;s communications office</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The fallout from the social media firestorm from the <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2017/01/make_2017_the_year_to_avoid_to.html">antivaccine rant</a> written by the Medical Director of the Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute and published by Cleveland.com last Friday has abated but far from faded away. The offending physician, Dr. Daniel Neides, was forced to <a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/08/cleveland-clinic-vaccines-response/">issue an apology</a>, which was one of the least convincing apologies I've ever seen, and The Cleveland Clinic <a href="https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2017/01/08/statement-cleveland-clinic/">issued a statement</a> announcing its commitment to vaccines and that Dr. Niedes would suffer some as yet undetermined "disciplinary action." Reactions outside of The Cleveland Clinic ranged from the suitably outraged, with an intense desire to <a href="http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/cleveland-clinic-physician-claims-vaccines-cause-autism-outrage-ensues/">refute the specifics</a> of the <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2017/01/07/cleveland-clinic-goes-full-anti-vaccine/#74fc075e408c">antivaccine misinformation</a> in Dr. Daniel Niedes' blog post and his <a href="http://kfolta.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/cleveland-clinic-quackery.html">initial reaction to criticism</a> to utterly missing the larger point and <a href="http://33charts.com/2017/01/cleveland-clinic-vaccine-debacle.html">focusing on "lessons" from the resulting kerfuffle</a> as an example of how not to do social media, both as an institution and a physician.</p> <p>I, of course, took the position that an antivaccine rant from the Medical Director of The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute should <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/09/antivaccine-pseudoscience-at-the-cleveland-clinic-thats-what-happens-when-you-allow-magical-thinking-to-take-hold/">come as no surprise</a> for a simple reason. When an institution <a href="https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cleveland-clinic-spewed-antivaccine-misinformation/">embraces magical thinking</a> in the form of quackademic medicine, as The Cleveland Clinic has for the last decade at least, eventually that magical thinking will manifest itself in ways that blissfully oblivious <a href="https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/a-shruggie-awakening/">shruggies</a> who view the woo at "wellness institutes" as harmless herbal medicine don't expect but are entirely predictable to those of us who have been paying attention. When you "integrate" alternative medicine modalities like traditional Chinese medicine, chiropractic, naturopathy, and reiki into real medicine, the affinity for antivaccine views in those forms of pseudomedicine will infect other areas, and you shouldn't be surprised that many of your "integrative medicine" practitioners will adhere to varying degrees of antivaccine belief.</p> <!--more--><p>Indeed, as of this writing, only two mainstream medical journalists, Casey Ross and Eric Boodman of STAT News, have stepped back from the controversy and seen the bigger picture that I've been trying to communicate, both here and at my not-so-super-secret other blog. Their article yesterday, <a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/09/hospitals-embrace-alternative-medicine/">Anti-vaccine rant exposes conflict over hospitals’ embrace of alternative medicine</a> is the only article I've seen thus far that more or less "gets it," asking:</p> <blockquote><p> But those reactions will not entirely contain the damage caused by the rant, which has already been picked up by anti-vaccine organizations, or address a more fundamental question: Why do hospitals that espouse evidence-based medical care operate alternative medicine institutes that offer treatments with little foundation in science? </p></blockquote> <p>And trying to answer the question, quoting Dr. Paul Offit:</p> <blockquote><p> Dr. Paul Offit, a professor of pediatrics and director of the vaccination education center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said doctors in integrative medicine institutes sometimes “cross the line into this fuzzy, metaphysical thinking, which is what [Neides] did.”</p> <p>He said Neides displayed a total lack of knowledge about the preservatives and activating agents used in vaccines, and did not even properly distinguish between them in his column. “It’s the usual bull[expletive],” he said, “which is to say that everything with a chemical name is bad for you.”</p> <p>Offit noted that his own hospital has a division of integrative and holistic medicine. “I too fight this fight internally,” he said. “We all do. Harvard does. Yale does. It’s not uncommon to have this, and the reason is that hospitals cater to a marketplace, and there is a market out there for this kind of medicine.” </p></blockquote> <p>I am very fortunate in that the academic medical center for which I work has very little of this "integrative medicine" nonsense. Certainly, it has far less than Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and, yes, The Cleveland Clinic, institutions, that, truth be told, tend to be more highly regarded. For that I am grateful. I am also vigilant, because, to be honest, if anything I'm surprised that there isn't more or that there hasn't been a push to bring in more. That's not to say it's nonexistent. The medical school teaches some "integrative medicine," but, then, it has no choice, as the body that certifies medical schools now requires it. Be that as it may, seeing how much woo has infiltrated Yale, I don't know how, for instance, Steve Novella puts up with it, given that Yale is also the home of David Katz, and his "more fluid" approach to evidence.</p> <p>Ross and Boodman even note the conflict by pointing out something I hadn't noticed before. Did you know that the Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute <a href="https://shop.clevelandclinicwellness.com">has a store</a>? I didn't, but I do now. It sells the usual "wellness" stuff, like exercise plans, mugs, recipe books, Fitbits, makeup and beauty products, and the like, but it sells more than that. For example, it sells something called the <a href="https://shop.clevelandclinicwellness.com/products/30-day-detox-box-body-anew">BodyAnew 30 Day Detox Box</a>, which is described thusly:</p> <blockquote><p> From the Manufacturer… Homeopathic Remedy This product is a kit that contains:</p> <ul><li>BodyAnew Fatigue™ Alertness Aid Oral Drops </li> <li>BodyAnew Purity™ Urinary Pain Relief Oral Drops </li> <li>BodyAnew Rejuveo™ Digestive Discomfort Oral Drops</li> </ul><p>Relief doesn’t need to come with frequent side effects which can be bothersome or even serious. The healthy way to feel better is to strengthen your body’s own natural defenses. Heel uses ingredients found in the natural world, so you can feel better about feeling better. </p></blockquote> <p>Yes, the Cleveland Clinic is selling a homeopathic remedy, containing remedies like Aranea diadema 6X, Calcarea phosphorica 12X, *Equisetum hyemale 4X, Ferrum iodatum 12X, *Fumaria officinalis 4X, *Gentiana lutea 5X, *Geranium robertianum 4X, Levothyroxine 12X, *Myosotis arvensis 3X, Natrum sulphuricum 4X, *Nasturtium aquaticum 4X, *Pinus sylvestris 4X, *Sarsaparilla 6X, *Scrophularia nodosa 3X, *Teucrium scorodonia 3X, *Veronica officinalis 3X, among others. Of course, these are "weak" homeopathic remedies as homeopathic remedies go, given that they are not very highly diluted, but they're still homeopathy. They're still quackery.</p> <p>The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Store also sells <a href="https://shop.clevelandclinicwellness.com/collections/vitamins/multivitamins">vitamins</a>, Metagenics products, orthomolecular products, fish oil supplements, curcumin supplements, essential oils, digestive enzymes, melatonin, resveratrol, antioxidants, <a href="https://shop.clevelandclinicwellness.com/collections/beauty/aromatherapy">aromatherapy</a>, and a <a href="https://shop.clevelandclinicwellness.com/collections/vitamins/herbs-extracts">wide variety of herbal remedies</a>.</p> <p>So clearly, woo is a profit center at The Cleveland Clinic.</p> <p>I suppose this shouldn't have come as a surprise. If anything, I blame myself for never having noticed the Clinic's Wellness Store before. After all, I have documented on numerous occasions just how far down the rabbit hole of quackademic medicine The Cleveland Clinic has gone, as you can find out by simply searching for "Cleveland Clinic" on this blog. Basically, The Cleveland Clinic is a foremost center of quackademic medicine, defined as the adoption and study of medical quackery as though it were real medicine, in the US. Its Wellness Center and Tonya I. Edwards Center for Integrative Medicine are packed with woo, and, contrary to the defense of Dr. Delos Cosgrove, the president and CEO of The Cleveland Clinic as being "a very big proponent of vaccination," apparently Dr. Cosgrove wasn't so strong in his beliefs that any of this quackery bothered him.</p> <p>Certainly, as I documented yesterday, it wasn't enough to prevent him from recruiting functional medicine quack Dr. Mark Hyman to open the Clinic's <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/center-for-functional-medicine">Center for Functional Medicine</a>. There's even a <a href="https://store.healthylivingshop.com/MyAccount/Login">functional medicine store linked to at the Center</a>, although it's not Cleveland Clinic-branded. (I'm sure the Clinic gets a cut, though.) This store sells more quackery than the Cleveland Clinic Wellness Store, including 10-day detox kits, immune and inflammatory balance products, detoxification support, and more. I didn't examine the products in detail because the shop makes you log in before you can see any of the products, and I wasn't about to create a new account just to be able to see what Mark Hyman is selling.</p> <p>Of course, integrative medicine practitioners were <a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/09/hospitals-embrace-alternative-medicine/">quick to invok</a>e the "no true Scotsman" fallacy:</p> <blockquote><p> Plenty of physicians in the integrative medicine community disagree vehemently with Neides’ questionable views on vaccines.</p> <p>“There’s no one that I know in integrative medicine who would say you should use an alternative approach to preventing communicable diseases in children,” said Dr. Greg Fricchione, the director of Massachusetts General Hospital’s Benson-Henry Institute for Mind-Body Medicine, who added that his daughter is the medical director for immunizations for the city of Chicago.</p> <p>The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute is well-regarded, he said, but he did not worry that Neides’s comments will affect the credibility of integrative medicine as a whole.</p> <p>“This is one guy, and I’m not sure of what his motivation was,” Fricchione told STAT. “I don’t think it will impair our ability to continue to provide integrated approaches, whole-person approaches, to health care … and I don’t think it will impair our ability to do the best basic and clinical research in integrative medicine.” </p></blockquote> <p>Let's just put it this way, just because Dr. Fricchione claims never to have met an integrative medicine practitioner who is antivaccine doesn't mean that there isn't a high prevalence of antivaccine beliefs in integrative medicine. For one thing, he's at Massachusetts General, which is the very epitome of the ivory tower. I'd be willing to bet that he's just oblivious, working as he does in his own little bubble. More importantly, he runs a "mind-body" medicine center. Supplements are generally not part of this sort of medicine, and <a href="http://www.bensonhenryinstitute.org">his center's website</a> doesn't indicate that it is an exception.</p> <p>The bottom line, of course, is that The Cleveland Clinic threw Dr. Neides under the bus, portraying him as, in essence, having "gone rogue" and publishing a blog featuring his affiliation with The Cleveland Clinic, complete with official logo. However, it's now clear that those initial disavowals were a bit—shall we say?—disingenuous, as evidenced by a story published in <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/01/cleveland_clinic_doctors_anti-.html">Cleveland.com</a> in which Chris Quinn, Vice President of Content, explains how Dr. Neides came to be blogging for Cleveland.com in the first place, in the process throwing The Cleveland Clinic under the bus to join Dr. Neides.=:</p> <blockquote><p> In January 2014, Bridget Peterlin, then manager of public relations for the Clinic's Wellness Institute, sent me a note asking whether I'd be interested in a column from Neides, the institute's new director. Neides wanted to write about wellness for the weekly Sun newspapers. Peterlin included a sample column, about the benefits of eating nuts.</p> <p>We welcome high-quality content for cleveland.com and the Suns, and this column had the benefit of being free. We discussed a title, came up with "Words on Wellness" and set up Neides as a trusted user on the system that feeds content to our website. That gave him the ability to publish columns directly.</p> <p>Neides did not publish his columns himself, however. The Clinic's corporate communications staff handled that, using the account we had set up for him. I do not know if the corporate communications staff edited or revised Neides' columns before publishing them. </p></blockquote> <p>You read that right. The Clinic's corporate communications staff <em>knew what Dr. Neides was doing and actually published his columns for him</em>, and no one at Cleveland.com edits or approves Dr. Neides' column. What does happen is that Bob Smith in The Cleveland Clinic's Corporate Communications office, who is a former <em>Plain Dealer</em> reporter, normally sends an email to Linda Kinsey, the editor of the Sun newspapers, to alert her. According to Quinn, Kinsey would often take a look at the column but "never found anything objectionable." Quinn then explains:</p> <blockquote><p> But Smith didn't send an alert after the column was published Friday. The column is published in the Lyndhurst-South Euclid page of cleveland.com and copied to other community pages. Without an alert from Smith, Kinsey did not know it was there.</p> <p>If we had noticed the column soon after it was published, I'd like to think we would have had a conversation about it, both internally and with the Clinic. Possibly, before the thing caught widescale attention, we would have unpublished it and sought revisions. That's hindsight, though, so I can't say for sure. </p></blockquote> <p>There's definitely more than a whiff of Mr. Quinn covering his posterior for having permitted a system that allowed Cleveland.com to publish a regular health column by a prominent physician at The Cleveland Clinic without paying for it. Of course, the Clinic deserves its share of the blame, as it sought this arrangement because it thought it would be good PR. It probably was, until Dr. Neides started going down the rabbit hole of anti-GMO ravings and then, last week, published antivaccine ravings.</p> <p>Quinn also explains why Dr. Neides' column mysteriously disappeared for a few hours on Sunday, only to reappear Sunday night:</p> <blockquote><p> Around 4:30 p.m. Sunday, I received an email from a reader expressing outrage about the removal of the Neides column from our site. I was surprised by the email, as nothing should be deleted from our site without my approval, and we very rarely remove articles and columns from our site and do so only with much deliberation. We own the rights to everything published on our site, with rare exceptions.</p> <p>I checked, and the column was not just unpublished, it was entirely gone from our system.</p> <p>I sent a note to the reader to thank him for the alert, and we set about restoring the column, and the many comments associated with it. We found it in an archive, and within an hour or so, we republished it.</p> <p>Upon review and after consultation with the Clinic, we learned that Smith was the one who deleted it. As that violates our policy, we have removed the access of Neides and the Clinic staff to the system that feeds content to our site. </p></blockquote> <p>So it was The Cleveland Clinic's communications office, specifically Bob Smith, who removed the post, no doubt because he had become aware of the uproar the column had caused. Perhaps he feared for his job. Now here's the part I like the best, because it illustrates so well what's wrong with online journalism these days:</p> <blockquote><p> <strong>Why is the column staying on the site even though the Clinic has disavowed it and Neides apologized for it?</strong></p> <p>This column has become the topic of a widespread conversation. At cleveland.com, we strive to be the center of conversation, so we are loath to remove something that has become central to a debate.</p> <p>As I said, if we had learned that Neides was pushing discredited anti-vaccination arguments before the column had become part of a bigger conversation, we might have asked him or the Clinic for revisions. By the time we knew of it, the conversation was raging. </p></blockquote> <p>In other words, Cleveland.com loves the traffic the post is getting. That's what "striving to be the center of conversation" means here. Thanks to the controversy, Dr. Neides' column went viral, and its leadership doesn't want to remove the source of those clicks. It wants to ride the wave of traffic until it subsides to background. Then and only then, I predict, will Cleveland.com remove the article.</p> <p>So what we have is a situation in which The Cleveland Clinic published Dr. Neides' blog post with the full knowledge of its communications office of the content of each one. For whatever reason, last week Dr. Neides felt "inspired" to write a well-nigh incoherent antivaccine rant more suitable for NaturalNews.com or Age of Autism than even for Cleveland.com. True, previous columns had contained less—shall we say?—intense rants against GMOs and glyphosate, but a lot of the previous columns had also been fairly benign bits of medical advice regarding eating healthy and exercising. For whatever reason, Dr. Neides' column didn't raise any red flags with Bob Smith—or anyone else—until after it had been published and gone viral.</p> <p>You can look at this as cluelessness on Smith's part, and it probably was. You can look at it as incompetence on the part of The Cleveland Clinic's communication office, and it was probably that too. (Did Mr. Smith actually read the column before sending it out on Friday?) However, I also think that this PR debacle reflects just how much a culture of accepting quackery has taken hold in the Clinic, such that even an antivaccine rant like Dr. Neides' didn't raise an eyebrow. It also belies the Clinic's later claims about how pro-vaccine it is, because if that were the case it would have communication policies in place that would never have let Dr. Neides' article get past Smith.</p> <p>This whole debacle was a major PR disaster for The Cleveland Clinic, but it was also very harmful for vaccine advocates in general. A major player at a major academic medical center just created a national news story by regurgitating the worst of the worst antivaccine lies. Let's just put it this way, when the antivaccine crank blog <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/01/cleveland-clinics-dr-daniel-neides-smart-recommendations-create-backlash.html" rel="nofollow">Age of Autism</a> and <a href="http://blog.drbrownstein.com/a-doctor-questions-vaccine-safety-and-all-hell-breaks-loose/" rel="nofollow">one of my local antivaccine quacks</a> defend you, you've screwed up big time and potentially done damage to public health. Worse, I can see where this story is going, because, as Elton John put it, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grYBKcuWowM">I've Seen That Movie Too</a>. I can see the evolving narrative, because that, too, is entirely predictable. If Dr. Niedes is fired or strongly disciplined, antivaccine cranks will portray him as being a martyr "persecuted" for speaking the "truth." (I'm surprised Mike Adams hasn't done this already. Maybe he's waiting to find out whether Neides is fired or not.) Antivaccine cranks will point to his story to show that real academic doctors share their views and that The Man can't stand dissent. It's coming. Be prepared.</p> <p>And never forget: When you let quackery in, you can't control how far it will spread or what it will infect. The Cleveland Clinic would do well to learn from this disaster. I'm also hoping that this is the wakeup call needed to shine a light on quackademic medicine centers at otherwise respectable academic medical centers like The Cleveland Clinic.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Mon, 01/09/2017 - 21:08</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy" hreflang="en">Homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/popular-culture" hreflang="en">Popular Culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/casey-ross" hreflang="en">Casey Ross</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic-wellness-center" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic Wellness Center</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clevelandcom" hreflang="en">Cleveland.com</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/daniel-neides" hreflang="en">Daniel Neides</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/delos-cosgrove" hreflang="en">Delos Cosgrove</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/eric-boodman" hreflang="en">Eric Boodman</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy-0" hreflang="en">homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/stat-news" hreflang="en">STAT News</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/tanya-i-edwards-center-integrative-medicine" hreflang="en">Tanya I. Edwards Center for Integrative Medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccine" hreflang="en">vaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484022768"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's a pretty pathetic hand washing of responsibility by Mr. Quinn and his newspaper. If Quinn had any journalistic integrity (instead of simply accepting the revenue of increased site traffic via Neides' column" and being a "center of conversation" he'd at least publish a counter-editorial calling Neides grossly incompetent, apologize for his complete lack of oversight of the Cleveland Clinic column and state the importance, safety and efficacy of vaccines in preventing diseases that kill and maim. </p> <p>I'm not holding my breath on that one. </p> <p>Also, Neides made the NVIC Facebook page yesterday, which is at least as big a sign of screwing up big time and damaging public health as appearing on AoA (though the queen of anti-vaccine Fisher has yet to pen Neides formal endorsement). Perhaps there is still time for Neides to be a speaker for (starting today) one of the worst-ever anti-vaccine online events --a "docu-series" called "Vaccines Revealed" (which is so downright bad I won't post a link to it).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349849&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ybhnPIy0HGlXpLp2UHmGBynX-7rmgFATYOtT0lE3EqY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349849">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349850" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484026364"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The article made the facebook page of the Australian Vaccination-skeptics Network as well. It is in the best of anti-vaccine company there.</p> <p>There seems to be some serious egg on faces at the Cleveland Clinic as one excuse after another is shown to be a tissue of lies. If only Donald Trump could keep his mouth shut and not suck all the oxygen away.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349850&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uhDc1arFUMqs19-sMjVHaPt1tkfLw-AZJ3MLSLGgpIk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349850">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349851" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484027511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Selling integrative medicine in these institutions is like selling a extended service warranties on consumer goods. They're worthless, usually covered by other areas, are pure profit for the organization, generally are pushed by people not forced to lie to the face of the person being fleeced of their money, and are an embarrassment to those who actually care about providing quality customer service. It wouldn't be fixed by single payer or any other healthcare reform and probably would be worse in government run healthcare systems because politicians would get their cut and whatever woomeister who is based in the district of the most powerful senator or congressman would get their nonsense pushed on the rest of us.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349851&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oIDeaOn-lRvPrtLqLLJTQeXe6noq2SnZWgsTUcaOGE8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joewv (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349851">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349852" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484033036"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It should be noted that the Cleveland Plain Dealer is the major news source for cleveland.com, which is viewed as an online version of the paper, so some of the embarassment for not vetting Neides' column splashes back on the Plain Dealer.</p> <p>The Plain Dealer has previously had problems with uncritical gushing over medical woo (as in its reporting of how an alternative medicine doctor supposedly relieved former Browns' quarterback Bernie Kosar's neurologic symptoms).</p> <p>As for hospitals/medical centers profiting from woo/quackery, it can be eye-opening just looking at what's for sale in the hospital gift shop.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349852&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zHjCxSYBZL8xKuu8bNbDzoekZYrzamtvaU78AiwknkU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349852">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349853" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484033200"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I was blissfully enjoying retirement from medicine when I discovered the existence of a vaccine rant published under the auspices of the Cleveland Clinic. Then I discovered more: I learned they now have a, so called, Wellness Clinic and store which apparently peddles unproven woo woo treatments for ill-defined conditions. You know, those dreadful "naturally occurring" self contaminating conditions resulting from living life!</p> <p>What could be a better money generator? Provide a, so-called, "natural" cure for a so-called "naturally" occurring condition, that will, obviously, damage one's "naturally" occurring good health. Gee Whiz, if I could only live in a vacuum I would be so healthy. May I remind the Cleveland's Execs. Just because a particular woo woo treatment their Institute is peddling for profit in their woo woo store doesn't mean its not harmful.</p> <p>So the Cleveland Clinic is now promoting unproven cures and CAM? What is going on? I thought they were the transplant center of the world? I used to return their critically ill transplant patients after they had fallen ill while traveling, i.e., after I had managed to stabilize them. Is the Cleveland Clinic going to become the World Center for Woo Woo now? Shame on them!</p> <p>One more point regarding the anti-vaccine rant appearing on one of their official websites. I feel the urge to remind the Cleveland Clinic Execs., and all the vaccine naysayers out there, of one empirically undeniable fact: In the US, have they seen a recent victim of polio lately? No they have not! And why, because the polio vaccine works, and works well. In fact, last I checked polio has been effectively eradicated from the United States; no thanks to the anti-vaccine movement. I guess they would prefer we were either all dead or limping through life. Thanks Cleveland Clinic, thanks anti-vaccine movement.</p> <p>Finally, I grew up in the early 1950's when parents lived in fear, for days, when their child came down with a high fever. When I was growing up I had two friends who had to use braces in order to ambulate. I guess the Cleveland Clinic would like those days to return, after all, think of the income!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349853&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7OCh0igEaWYHhEaBRUFHxxbPLuHgsDQ9WJKHqoeSL8M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Cowboydoc,PH.D.,MD (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349853">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349854" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484037475"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Joewv #3<br /> Up here in socialized medicine land, the gov't healthcare system doesn't pay for woo, not even chiropracters anymore. You need extra private insurance for these type of reimbursements. However, it may change with the gov't establishing Boards of homeopaths and naturopaths to oversee licencing and regulation of these folks.<br /> As an aside, it is depressing to see how people can get degrees in health related sciences and so not pay attention that they can go head first down the rabbit hole to become promoters of magical thinking.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349854&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NGU27nTFvDeM5svJqwBaw6W2UetKxUSG6YCrR03CZZE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JDK (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349854">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349855" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484038739"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think it's pretty clear what happened. Neides sent the article to Smith, and Smith posted it without actually reading it, or at least not without actually thinking about it. He also forgot to send the alert to the newspaper staff.</p> <p>By the time Smith figured out what had happened, the genie was out of the bottle and the Plain Dealer really couldn't take the article down without looking bad.</p> <p>And truthfully, they should have looked bad because it was a mistake to set up this process in the first place, because it was a mistake to trust the clinic, because it was a mistake for the clinic to have hired an anti-vaxxer in the first place.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349855&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="usE7S_2jmMpZ1YCtKoO2q56kK5JvdVxMIeBQAMQ0AYQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349855">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349856" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484040010"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm amused that the comments have been shut down, even though the page is still up.</p> <p>Amused, and a bit relieved at how much of my time has been freed up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349856&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qnbjm55lNxaRpRJPOzy0VFh-s4A9ysfuQeWRioHlIlU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WLU (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349856">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349857" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484041869"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac writes,</p> <p>And never forget: When you let quackery in, you can’t control how far it will spread or what it will infect. </p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Let it play out, Orac.</p> <p>Eventually, these quack Doctors will get what they want (e.g., mercury-free, aluminum-free, preservative-free, and most important: vaccines not manufactured with natural rubber latex). </p> <p>Thereafter, these so called quack Doctors will be working the night shift at Walmart pushing carts while the sensible Doctors will continue to promote, and profit from, better health though vaccinations.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349857&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0zgqpbJ_mFbHnwPWXtMaMULjaiM6DrycKyaTadX_fBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349857">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349858" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484042386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>An editor on the print side recognized the ludicrous nature of the column and rejected it. The setup that allows such nonsense to be posted without editing, and the decision to let it remain on the site as is, are solely the responsibility of Mr. Quinn and Cleveland.com. The Plain Dealer and the site have the same owners, but very different management. Also, Mr. Smith had no role in medical coverage, and no experience with medical subjects, before going to the Clinic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349858&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y0l5mPjywjvc-1wnespdUxwMQHJhqzuQc4jKrQTeM_Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MG (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349858">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349859" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484042928"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Neides has published several other spectacularly idiotic and woo-filled "articles" in the Sun newspapers. The content of those pseudoscience and medical science-denier articles would make even homeopathic practitioners blush, and should have embarrassed the Cleveland Clinic into taking action against Dr. Neides long, long ago.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349859&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XvFpjbQUPSZtdWDs6-_hjnZDx5VZff5xJqpmgdQYZ4w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349859">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349860" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484043364"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>5 Cowboy</p> <p><i>I grew up in the early 1950’s when parents lived in fear, for days, when their child came down with a high fever.</i> </p> <p>I remember my parents checking by prodding my stomach and trying to feed me a dill pickle. I am not convinced that this was an approved diagnostic method.</p> <p>I remember the air of suppressed terror .</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349860&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_Y6o56IoP0VfeaIzcUGp5g4r9i2M2LbB19n3h_pUpXA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349860">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349861" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484043740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's the Cleveland Clinic? Those rocks in front of the building are aligned to channel negative energy toward the building! This can't be an accient. Only a skilled <i>feng shui</i> practitioner who has turned toward evil would have done that! This must be part of a plan by the Cleveland Clinic to keep people sick so they can make more money off of them!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349861&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6JmYqMXjNNOyd8T1ZhZi_LTBROpFlzEHuY3m2IY_wwM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349861">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349862" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484043856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p># 6 JDK<br /><i>Up here in socialized medicine land, the gov’t healthcare system doesn’t pay for woo, </i> </p> <p>Keep your fingers crossed. Much to my surprise we in ON have had a College of Naturopaths since roughly the 1920's. No payments so far.</p> <p>Given the pressure on health budgets, unless we get some really clueless, woo-oriented health ministers at provincial level, I would hope we don't see the woo idiots on the payroll. </p> <p>If nothing else, the CMA and provincial associations are likely to fight such a move tooth and nail, since any money would come out of their slice of the pie.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349862&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9iRO3pGYOfg6Y-OxETxnTZYvX_BICJzr9ySJQ-LmmC0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349862">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349863" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484044645"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I am not convinced that this was an approved diagnostic method.</p></blockquote> <p>That was clearly before the criteria were changed to make it appear that the fraudulent vaccine actually worked.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349863&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-zZmrmzlGNtXB1Jrcb_s-_RO-v6qlydmZCSDspKceD4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349863">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349864" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484045442"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> . . . At cleveland.com, we strive to be the center of conversation, so we are loath to remove something that has become central to a debate.</p></blockquote> <p>Translation: Cickbait! We love this stuff. "We don't have to show you no stinkin' integrity when we have integrative medicine!"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349864&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q0wA1gCYwcGMckKQHFrzfBw2t0P2Z8ltsaBGuxsBy40"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349864">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349865" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484048827"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> The Cleveland Clinic Wellness Store also sells vitamins, Metagenics products, orthomolecular products, fish oil supplements, curcumin supplements, essential oils, digestive enzymes, melatonin, resveratrol, antioxidants, aromatherapy, and a wide variety of herbal remedies. </p></blockquote> <p>I note they also sell home-brew beer kits (also hard cider kits), cocktail shakers (OK, you *can* make salad dressing in them too), cocktail stirrers, shot glasses, whisk(e)y and wine glasses, kitchen gadgets including a banana slicer (seriously) and cake servers (cake is apparently as important as beer to 'wellness'), sprays to keep your poop from stinking when you drop a duce, laptop bags, purses, cosmetics, and a jewelry tree.</p> <p>Based on my spot checking, all of theses and more can be yours for 5 to 20% more than other stores charge for the exact same item.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349865&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RX59JJ1Uo04CunJm7zTTlBVdr5ntrCmUnYiRp9rM4Gc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349865">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349866" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484050862"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's in today's <i>Daily Mail</i>. I'd say the situation is still unfolding.</p> <p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4105682">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4105682</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349866&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Fi6Q5r-QdgduFAL1PBxAw0OrB1hYSpkOOIv249c3qbc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349866">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349867" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484050914"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You're hilarious Orac, I haven't checked out your blog for a while and it doesn't look like I've missed much.<br /> You remind me of someone talking and talking on the phone, so you put it down for 20 minutes because you (the talker) won't even notice the other person isn't on the other end anymore.you carry on with your life and then go back to the phone and the talker(you) is still raving on about the same stuff.<br /> Seriously you're a bloody broken record.</p> <p>Do a story on that Women (ex NEMJ Editor) who wrote a book saying big pharma can't be trusted because they pay off everyone involved in the unethical world of medical/science/research </p> <p>People like you.</p> <p>You're a weak, cowardly idiot, pure evil I reckon.<br /> Your agenda is so obvious.<br /> You're a joke.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349867&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eqGZhp-ND-j27YwE0djQXCEXl3LGg7peAXRmv81zVRo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AB (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349867">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349868" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484051629"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Translation: Cickbait! We love this stuff. “We don’t have to show you no stinkin’ integrity when we have integrative medicine!”</p></blockquote> <p>Is the, ah, misstep of the Cleveland Clinic really the problem of cleveland.com? The former approached the latter with the supply of free advertorial copy in the first place, as I understand it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349868&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7qWxvWlATvYkdh_BRysqitztWCKpOcxvh_ZdUgkkBnU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349868">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349869" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484051752"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe Cleveland.com can solicit articles from Sherrie Tenpenny next to solidify their reputation as a platform for anti-vaccine articles and a medium for undermining children's health.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349869&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bABvG-g50SqgPAkR3p25EuotWryELbBng1AFvP8OdLk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349869">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349870" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484052741"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And get this: "“There’s no one that I know in integrative medicine who would say you should use an alternative approach to preventing communicable diseases in children,” said Dr. Greg Fricchione..." (Rats!, my "return" key just stopped working in this text-box so pardon the crappy formatting.) Let's unpack that just a little: no sane person would support using an "alternative approach" to preventing communicable diseases in children. Right: because alternative medicine isn't medicine. But apparently it's OK to use not-med for (whatever) and (whatever). Just not when it's really important.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349870&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cVQp6cynGCVJyhrWEq7-8RdFVWxbXCK-xzzWDP5-BBw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Squirrel (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349870">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349871" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484054317"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ AB, first the blogger gets to pick the subjects; don't read if you don't like them. Secondly, you didn't add a single neuron to the commentary. How about picking an actual point on the subject. No one is making you read here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349871&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PLCBBWpKqSLQOk7-uNrZa66bV7EDxY6bRvI6KhpEfyM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349871">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349872" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484054551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@AB:</p> <p>Go away and be boring someplace else.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349872&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pSF2H9-m3y3qYRsvOpleP_68PGf9D_tCMdmoJFcfDYg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349872">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349873" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484054706"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I just performed an AB test. Either way all I got was the same content free 135 word ad hominem.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349873&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rtyENUdAc0ZiN6uWd0koH_sdCYkl1_LZKyybsp4zVxw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rs (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349873">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484056485"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Today, I learned a new word: <a>volksverraeten</a>, meaning 'traitor of the people'. In an annual contest held in Germany, volksverraeten won as the 'ugliest unword of the year'. When I learned that Cleveland Clinic was allowing the on-site sale of homeopathic detox pills, the same word, and a few others, came immediately to mind. Perhaps someone could up with a contest for the ugliest unmedicine of the year, or the most unethical medical institution of the year.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U9NRhHyPnHmCWL484cd_EPg9Bzb3RurMJ5DF2pu-VAw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484058073"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I remember my parents checking by prodding my stomach and trying to feed me a dill pickle.<br /> I remember the air of suppressed terror .</i></p> <p>Dill pickles aren't that bad!</p> <p><i>That’s the Cleveland Clinic?</i><br /> It appears to be designed as a solar furnace. Do not stand at the focus.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NVNJWrR63DeJOpYg9C1Rk5PF_43U8h2IW2HAHJM_btU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484058186"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Dorit #21 --well, Tenpenny practices medicine (if you can call it that--I can't) in Ohio, so maybe Neides can open a satellit "wellness clinic" at her site. </p> <p>I wouldn't trust Tenpenny to care for Sea Monkeys, let alone children And, unless Cleveland Clinic shows some gumption, I'll be tossing their glossy mailing as to how great their children's hospital is straight into the recycle bin. </p> <p>What a waste.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cHB7yGYV7iOWfAgCwAG1rlvB_i5JKfGP06TbYzQiWcM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484058298"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's something to brighten your day:<br /><a href="http://www.vox.com/2017/1/10/14225038/trump-robert-f-kennedy-jr-anti-vaxxer-autism-vaccine">http://www.vox.com/2017/1/10/14225038/trump-robert-f-kennedy-jr-anti-va…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pNOIW_gCMUJCLtzcz4SbL4OQbMH-_6jmQS_BGA5TnyM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484058526"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From MSN:</p> <p>After the meeting concluded, Kennedy told reporters that Mr. Trump had asked him to “chair a commission on vaccination safety and scientific integrity.” Kennedy said he told Mr. Trump he would chair such a commission, and that their meeting was held at Mr. Trump’s request.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nh21K-mRP8hk1rOyqmAjsK5pDuA4QLJ_JET5pfyk9ZU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349879" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484060358"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Dill pickles aren’t that bad!</p></blockquote> <p>Aside from the dill.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349879&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lR4DSGgZ4DcCF2bT-6YABnQ328doZ2lOk5RATWMELzM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349879">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349880" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484060970"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Maybe Cleveland.com can solicit articles from Sherrie Tenpenny next to solidify their reputation as a platform for anti-vaccine articles and a medium for undermining children’s health.</p></blockquote> <p>Ah, but cleveland.com's position appears to be that the Cleveland Clinic <i>doesn't get to disappear its embarrassments</i>. This is different from soliciting antivaccine content in the first place.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349880&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pBZHdLn3P1j_oQz43Xu9V6WA3C6_um_MVE35Y2Y6x1Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349880">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349881" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484065091"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>This must be part of a plan by the Cleveland Clinic to keep people sick so they can make more money off of them!</p></blockquote> <p>Shhh, you don't want them to send the kung fu assassins after you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349881&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z9F0itr4bYCqJLoVp1rKXKKvMXAPhoDd9M-xdH_eqMg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349881">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349882" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484067393"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chris Hickey,</p> <p>I wouldn't trust Tenpenny to care for waterbears!</p> <p><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349882&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4Xc6zosUCk-ZQilfrEZc9GzQTYN5RZ53X3MOeRLctic"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349882">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349883" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484067411"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As Orac's above article, quoting Qluinn,<br /><i>Upon review and after consultation with the Clinic, we learned that Smith was the one who deleted it. As that violates our policy, we have removed the access of Neides and the Clinic staff to the system that feeds content to our site.</i></p> <p>It appears that Smith and the Cleveland Clinic operate from the same playbook as does Scientology - "We run this show, not you."<br /> In the comments of the article(s) there were some complaints from locals that CC ran the county and bullies everyone who may disagree with some of their political/civic business machinations, à la Scientology &amp; Clearwater, Fla.</p> <p>The analogy seems apt: alt-med magical thinking medical clinic and weird ufo cult.</p> <p>Have fun.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349883&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0frEfIkMK7iMVVXBPLCBhFqGYE3qxEmNY5X0rnbgq-8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Reality (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349883">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349884" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484068526"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well Donald Trump has created some more hilarity to come. Robert F Kennedy Jr is to head a commission on vaccine safety and scientific integrity.</p> <p>Kennedy is going to struggle with the scientific integrity part as much as he will with the vaccine safety part. </p> <p>Trump seems to think running a country is like appearing on a television show.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349884&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_DMqA2PIlv0QRPYpTG8BXGS6acDLkDAY6cPoWT-Vy2Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349884">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349885" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484069679"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>TBruce @29:<br /> And by "brighten my day" you mean "make me scream into the abyss", right?</p> <p>Ffffffaaaaaaa.......</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349885&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9fK8oBnbIBx163Yek88Q0cGLplslIxWCaA6NC-XU9hU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349885">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349886" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484069792"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny @17: If you're ever in need of a laugh, look up the video ad for Poo-pourri (the stuff you spray in the toilet to make your poops not smell). It is hysterical.</p> <p>(The stuff itself I guess works OK.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349886&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q0QS_srX8UQXHmO_3c8fc6ikw5AdMd7sXyRrWhXLahc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349886">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349887" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484070337"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Aside from the dill.</p></blockquote> <p>I happen to love dill in many things, alas, pickles is not one of those things.</p> <p>More on topic, Scientific Parent has a slightly different take on this:<br /><a href="http://thescientificparent.org/cleveland-clinic-doctor-apologizes-for-anti-vaccine-comments/">http://thescientificparent.org/cleveland-clinic-doctor-apologizes-for-a…</a></p> <p>Frankly, I suspect Smith received the article toward the end of the day and just blasted it off, sight unseen. When he heard of the kerfluffle, he deleted it.<br /> Likely thinking the entire time (and likely currently), "Oh, I am soooo fired!".<br /> Still, this is, despite its appearances, a win for Cleveland Clinic, as their woo shop of horrors will likely be doing quite the brisk business.</p> <p>Well, back to cooking. I'm in the process of turning 5 pounds of ground meat into meatballs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349887&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JAmTaY08iErskuXHuwWgR3FYthAxZrP6F-ADW0sPUTI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349887">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349888" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484071448"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I’m in the process of turning 5 pounds of ground meat into meatballs."</p> <p>You need a spherical cow.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349888&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2lDDx6zU7zGLMKFytR3RNzCUI2Ow_oSicZSjgISjzCk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rs (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349888">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349889" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484072004"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You need a spherical cow.</p></blockquote> <p>They're on backorder.<br /> I need a bigger oven, I have a full sheet (18x26 inch) on each shelf and still have mixture left.</p> <p>Once that's done, I'll have to start making the pasta sauce. I cook it in batches of two gallons, once done, I freeze the sauce in quart containers.<br /> I used to also can the sauce, but my pressure cooker got lost in the move and I haven't had the spare cash to replace it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349889&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Its3nbsM_2F_H6nzMCisezoLsiGJgvxSZLheXbxH6-w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349889">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349890" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484074086"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Trump seems to think running a country is like appearing on a television show.</p></blockquote> <p>Speaking of the Orange One...</p> <p>...when I was deciding to go into Slavic studies, never did I think that I would have to read the phrase (allegedly) connecting the President-elect to golden showers.</p> <p>And yet <a href="http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/10/14231446/russia-blackmail-trump-cnn?utm_campaign=vox.social&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_content=voxdotcom&amp;utm_source=facebook">here we are. </a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349890&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N7Jyt60k5oduU_4a0d4DRFt4eXej2SQJa5v55b6SzoA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349890">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349891" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484074270"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Aside from the dill.</p></blockquote> <p>Narad would not like the cucumber salad I made recently, which had copious amounts of dill.</p> <p>He may possibly have liked the pierogi (cheese-potato and mushroom), and roast that it accompanied, and the pączki I made for dessert.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349891&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Nk9QkQzxRJm2We75QvpJbLu_nWxv6JRQmzm8oFipzCM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349891">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349892" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484075423"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Well Donald Trump has created some more hilarity to come. Robert F Kennedy Jr is to head a commission on vaccine safety and scientific integrity.</i></p> <p>The only source for that claim was RFK Jnr himself, whose elevated self-image is matched only by his mendacity. Trump himself denied that any decision had been made.<br /> Any encounter between two extreme narcissists is likely to end in tears before bedtime and a Highlander "There can only be One!!!" moment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349892&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6-kqyveJjk8Lm3pTF066yO0bSLzJOK9zCZY835GTAwY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349892">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349898" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484079483"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A bit of interesting information on the new US President, Vlad Putin.<br /><a href="https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html">https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Alle…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349898&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GL4TiMC0qAHAfdwKI_KGkw7KRQlfrZGkHl_h7RkjutA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349898">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1349892#comment-1349892" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349893" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484075866"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A hundred bucks on what tomorrow's RI topic will be, any takers???</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349893&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zcadz0yLqRYCC8FxaFf6GIK0WUwpCxYG8zcoFHOGUU4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349893">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349894" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484075962"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The benefits of energy healing in treating cancer. I think Orac has seen the light of that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349894&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MhzKUlrEc5jPi6c69IcOUBn0FlzUwigtRYx0tNp1Rag"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349894">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1349893#comment-1349893" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349895" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484076313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>what tomorrow’s RI topic will be, any takers?</i><br /> The culinary virtues of dill. Especially as flavouring for akvavit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349895&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X7cs4oJZuqoEAWhNgBZiotRYhA6852-p1gZm94EFNQo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349895">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349896" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484076549"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The healing power of a golden shower.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349896&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3-BAvVYEtaWMdXY_l-NzXPc-zQo1Zbzm2ApfsLw9ynA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Delphine (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349896">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349897" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484077978"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Urine therapy" is, in fact, a thing...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349897&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1f4oVMvvelLAg7kRe95XqGh1D92jqQ0XkOuQynjMEGA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349897">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349899" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484082932"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re. RFK: I saw this in the news and thought "President Measles." Yes it's only RFK's word so far, but there haven't been any tweets to deny it. There is still time for a deluge of phone calls, email, and postal mail, to try to douse this before it becomes a five-alarm fire. Pretend you voted for him if you have to. And someone out there needs to develop a database that can be used in case Price takes over at CDC and stops reporting communicable disease data to the public. Because dollars to donuts there are going to be more &amp; bigger outbreaks over the next four years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349899&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sMmlhcEclVPM2nda1t2nbtJPQNganZeRI8wpKUP65z8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Squirrel (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349899">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349900" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484086652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wouldn't doubt that Trump said something similar to what RFK is claiming. After all we have seen that Trump tends to state the first thing that comes into his head, only to deny saying it later. </p> <p>This smacks of RFK announcing it to big himself up as usual.</p> <p>We have seen Trump walk away from so many things that he has promised, that it is really hard to know which of his promises he intends to keep. I also suspect that RFK's anti-vaccine hysteria may be a bridge too far for Congress. But then what do I know. I thought the people of America would easily see through the empty rhetoric of Trump. </p> <p>In any case, it looks like Donald Trump might have quite a lot more on his hands over the next few weeks to worry about responding about any promises he made to Kennedy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349900&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="58Aw9zLyWV-wvVQpOGrFgpFLJkfxEv2S-xKffiYvXeY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349900">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349901" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484090940"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>and, in the meantime,... "An unvaccinated adult may have exposed people to measles in the past month at several locations in Denver, Aurora, Englewood, Centennial and Boulder County, the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment announced Monday.The adult, whose name was not released, contracted measles while traveling abroad and was hospitalized for three days at Parker Adventist Hospital starting on Dec. 29."<br /> Coughing his/her way through Walmart, 3 grocery stores, a mall, 3 restaurants, two t-mobile stores, an "apothecary", an Urgent care facility, and a fitness center before being admitted to the hospital. (in an area covering five city/suburbs)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349901&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2wqyj0yTD6ZkHdHwiOhUoPMn8rocQPBAeZTBFq448VY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">mho (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349901">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349902" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484091495"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad: "Aside from the dill."</p> <p>It is better than cilantro.</p> <p>I actually plan on planting some soon in my sunny room, along with basil.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349902&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0nQroLAbuUe5TZc9Vj4xsmfKVcvf1DBgIHq5oW2WCCs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349902">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349903" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484094772"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, I got onto the The Wellness Institute Store early yesterday, having clicked the link to general page for the Institute, immediately spotted the "Wellness Store Online" link in the navigation menu on the left, and thought (as I am wont to do) 'Follow the money.' What I found was that the Institute is very, very big into Those Deadly Toxins, and not just into avoiding them (as you'd guess a 'wellness' angle on that woo would go) but, equally or more into flushing out whatever Deadly Toxins you've already absorbed. Yes, good friends, there's no need to worry, because, for a nominal fee, we can rid you of this horrible problem you didn't know you had! On the store's front page, right under the Detox Kit Orac described, featured product #2 is Mark Hyman's <i>10 Day Detox Diet Cookbook</i>. The price: "$24 $30" though hardcovers go on Amazon for $17.85.</p> <p>Imho, the coverage and critique of Neides's cleveland.com piece is missing 'the big story' by hanging the discussion on the anti-vax peg instead of the toxins peg. The former could be a idiosyncratic peculiariity, but the latter is the heart of the beast of the whole Hyman/Neides operation at the CC. Even on my first read of the cleveland.com piece, it seemed to me the anti-vax was secondary to Neides, too. That is, as his title indicated, he was just trotting out the familiar AV playbook as a strategy to sell the core gospel of detox.</p> <p>The copy on the store site and the Institute site was all of a piece with the 'toxins' prose in the cleveland.com post. Not just the same concepts, but similar tone, voice, use of language. In short, the toxins bunko Neides dished out for public consumption wasn't idiosyncratic or off-the-reservation, but what this whole wing of the CC is doing all-the-time, every day. I say 'wing' because the store and Institute pages gave me a strong subjective impression that Neides is functioning here as Mark Hyman's wingman. This isn't a case of one bad apple, it's a team of bad apples with a sizable well-funded posse behind them. </p> <p>BTW, when I typed Hyman's name in the search field at Amazon to price-check his 10-Day Detox Diet Cookbook I discovered a different product called "The Detox Box" listed under his name: not a collection of homeopathic oral drops, but a kit containing a 64-page study guide, 2 CDs, 70 flash cards, and 2 self-evaluation questionnaires "to help you assess your levels of exposure". </p> <p>And while the schtick at the Wellness Store isn't quite Mike Adams, it's basically The Food Babe, more or less straight up... Oh right, <i>The Food Babe Way</i> shows up on page 2 (of 9) of Amazons hits for "Mark Hyman", listed as "by Vani Hari and Mark Hyman" thanks to Dr. Mark having provided the Foreword, as prominently displayed on the cover. I don't know if Vani is shilling homepathic detox kits. But even w/o the Veronica officinalis 3X, the Food Babism of The Wellness Institute is so Jughead Extremis that the fact it's being promulgated with this depth and force within a high status institution isn't just a serious concern, but one that ought to pose questions of "Why?' and 'How did this this happen?'</p> <p>And I do have to say I don't find Orac's Idealist (in the philosophical sense) slippery-slope thesis persuasive. Which is to say, I don't buy aggressive Food Babist enterprise is the logical end-result of any and every deviation from a zero-tolerance policy for any bit of CAM – that once you let a little magical thinking in the door, "you can’t control how far it will spread or what it will infect." For one thing, hospitals with religious affiliations operated for generations without Faith-stuff spreading or infecting. For another, there are no shortage of historical examples to illustrate what Marcuse called 'repressive tolerance': letting a little opposition in the door as a means of defusing and controlling it. I'd also note any number of 'IM" things – like Dr. Fricchione's stress-reduction institute at Mass General or the many cancer clinics now using placebo theatrics for pain management – that have not been accompanied by anything remotely resembling the CC's toxins bunko at their respective institutions.</p> <p>I could say 'ideas' can only become viral when the there's a material weakness in the host – exposure alone is never enough. But beyond that... If there are greased down-slopes in social relations among <i>homo sapiens sapiens</i>, I sure as heII haven't landed on any of them. I take the nature of our species to be not just upslopes, but ones filled with obstacles in addition to slipperiness that works only toward back-sliding. Which is to say I can't think of any examples of ideas getting anywhere, much less gathering force, without a considerable push from money, power, and privilege.</p> <p>So, I would start looking for the real 'why' and 'how' of the Wellness Institute Store in the political economy of the Cleveland Clinic, and the larger position in the healthcare economy in which it sits. I don't think we can ever really know what's what's unless we do 'follow the money' beyond broad assumptions about "they're in fir the money" into specific concrete evidence of whose money is buying what exactly. And one of my starting hypotheses would be that whatever income the CC may derive from the Wellness Institute and Functional Medicine Center is likely not enough to explain the level of detox WTF. So one of the first questions I'd ask is where the CC got the money to start-up Neides's and Hyman's units. And, of course, I'd want to know who besides the CC might be making bank on this stuff, or gaining some broader economic/political advantage. I'd want to see if anyone like Orac's good buddy [sarcasm] Glen Sabin of FON Therapeutics is lurking about, connecting the IM operations at the CC to the interests of Big Supplement. Then, casting the net a bit wider, I'd look for economic connections or mutual interests to the big pharmacy chains, given that the weekly circulars I get from CVS and Walgreens are full of promotions for Zicam, Cold-Eeze and vitamin supplements. </p> <p>Finally, I'd want to know where the big insurance companies are on this stuff. If I consider Neides/Wellness and Hyman/Functional as two prongs of a single 'IM' strategy, I see benefits for insurers in both. The 'Functional' prong pulls the moneyed swells who expect a lot of attention to an uncovered/un-reimbursed service, while the 'Wellness' prong encourages substituting supplements, online 'education' and and 'interactive online programs' for visits to a PCP.</p> <p>[Ultimately, my concerns connect to what I've been thinking lately about the 'big picture' of CAM, and that's that office-visit quackery is a relatively limited threat, and the real danger is DIY 'natural healthcare' and the growth of businesses profiteering off of and promoting that ideology and practice. But I'll have to save explaining/justifying that (admittedly still tentative) thought for another time...]</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349903&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SL9DXhzoZKcWAtDtrNMjDWYTJlr6DWfhIWl0jwrp2u0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349903">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349904" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484100432"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>On Trump and RFKJ:</p> <p>While is certainly take hdb's point about RFKJ being the only source here, which amounts to no source given his track record, I wouldn't put it past Trump to put him on some commission of the typical Washington 'give lip-service to a special interest that will never get anything in policy' variety. My first thought was maybe he did get enough campaign contributions from the Blaxill-led AV moneybags contingent he gave a brief audience to at that fundraiser that he has to toss them something as payback. But my second thought is that his notorious obsession with celebrities and blue bloods is enough to have him groveling before anyone from clan "Kennedy". </p> <p>I will say three things with high confidence:<br /> 1. A "deluge of phone calls, email, and postal mail, to try to douse this" is about as bad an approach to Trump as you could get, since any he responds to any criticism with full-bore attack and doubling down on whatever he was criticized for. That deluge is gasoline to Trump, and is more likely to turn RFKJ's feeble cinders into a 50-alarm wildfire than douse it.<br /> 2. Given the GOP Congress refusing to find the Putin bridge too far to ride the Trump train, the chances they'll waste any political capital on standing between The Donald and RFKJ are nil.<br /> 3. There's neither enough money or power in anti-vax or pro-vax for anyone in the White House or in Congressional leadership to do anything beyond lip service about it one way or the other. Vaccine policy is a forlorn sub-minnow in a pond where piranhas fight to get 15 seconds of attention away from the sharks. If Trump does anything it will get rubber-stamped, but it will be no more than a blip of inconsequential noise forgotten by the time the next Twitter-storm greats the next dawn.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349904&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4BGJHHlp26xPDUHsS7CZvtE2K9Dy2PC75Hl0T88IVrg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349904">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349905" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484120464"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good analyses, Sadmar. (Drat, my "return" key still isn't working on this site!, sorry for the bad formatting.) Agreed, "follow the money." Agreed, not every instance of a clinic going for some IM placebo hand-waving is an immediate risk of a Reiki and homeopathy infestation, though we'all need to keep our eyes open and make noise</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349905&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JvK0N3dPbxUeUFmQ-IFmfqtjtnSFtLS0ob_Wx_iMfeo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Squirrel (not verified)</span> on 11 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349905">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349906" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484120882"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>...(Rats!, trying the Tab key caused my comment to submit prematurely, is anyone else having these problems?)... anyway: we need to keep our eyes open and make noise if we see it getting beyond placebo pain relief or stress/relaxation stuff. Orac's approach is to have a low "positive" threshold, which IMHO is better than the opposite. Re. RFK: Agreed, criticism is gasoline for Trump. Though here's the risk: if RFK or any of those loons gets any sort of Presidential appointment or commission or whatever, they are going to use it for all it's worth to get The Base riled up and screeching. That will a) cause us trouble in various states, and b) produce more vaccine refuseniks, thereby c) producing more and worse outbreaks. So one way or another we have to find a way to bog 'em down in quicksand so they don't get traction. As with a number of other issues, it may fall to us to do all of the fighting ourselves (such as in social media), rather than expecting any support from Trump or Congress.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349906&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u9bLHC5c-edWj2khP5EI87BZgVlp80Q_3Tj0mxoIrzI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Squirrel (not verified)</span> on 11 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349906">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349907" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484120986"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@AB #19</p> <blockquote><p>Do a story on that Women (ex NEMJ Editor) who wrote a book saying big pharma can’t be trusted because they pay off everyone involved in the unethical world of medical/science/research.</p></blockquote> <p>I assume you are talking about Marcia Angell (ex <b>NEJM</b> editor), and her book "The truth about the drug companies : how they deceive us and what to do about it". That book was published in 2004 ; Orac tends to react to fresher news.<br /> More important : the "broken record" here is how consistently Angell is misquoted and used by people who don't want to bring constructive criticism of real problems in current research ; they quote her to reject any research they don't like, by pretending she shares their cartoonish representations of medical research.<br /> It's even more ironic when they quote her in vaccination debates, since she is very pro-vaccination.<br /> - In her book she is far more POed at “me-too” drugs and regrets vaccines aren’t more available (see chapter 5 p.91-92)<br /> - She uses immunization rates as a measurement for health care quality here : <a href="http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/Exprts_intrvw/m_angell.htm">http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/Exprts_intrvw/m_angell.htm</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349907&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P3IoxE7km-sxQiQ8TPEyROugYdqLF16U9baIV8ddFPk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LouV (not verified)</span> on 11 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349907">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/01/10/a-cleveland-clinic-doctors-antivaccine-rant%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:08:23 +0000 oracknows 22467 at https://scienceblogs.com Antivaccine pseudoscience at The Cleveland Clinic: That's what happens when you allow magical thinking to take hold https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/09/antivaccine-pseudoscience-at-the-cleveland-clinic-thats-what-happens-when-you-allow-magical-thinking-to-take-hold <span>Antivaccine pseudoscience at The Cleveland Clinic: That&#039;s what happens when you allow magical thinking to take hold</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Over the weekend, a most unusual <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2017/01/cleveland_clinic_wellness_expe.html">social media firestorm erupted</a> in response to a blog post by <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/wellness/integrative-medicine/staff">Daniel Neides, MD, MBA</a>, <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/patients/information/shared-medical-appointments/departments">Acting Medical Director</a> of the <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/03/tanya_edwards_medical_director.html">Tanya I. Edwards Center for Integrative Medicine</a>, <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/wellness/integrative-medicine/staff">Vice Chair and Chief Operating Officer of Cleveland Clinic Wellness</a>, as well as the <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/patients/information/shared-medical-appointments/departments">Associate Director of Clinical Education for The Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine</a> (CCLCM), where he oversees all clinical activities during years three through five of the medical school. The reason for the social media uproar was that Dr Neides' post, entitled <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2017/01/make_2017_the_year_to_avoid_to.html">Make 2017 the year to avoid toxins (good luck) and master your domain</a> (<a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lVMRp4wMZ-QJ:www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2017/01/make_2017_the_year_to_avoid_to.html+&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us">Google cache version here</a>, as long as it lasts.), was basically an antivaccine rant, full of pseudoscience about "toxins" and fear mongering about vaccines and autism.</p> <p>The full story is related at a blog that you are probably familiar with in a <a href="https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cleveland-clinic-spewed-antivaccine-misinformation/">post by someone you might know</a>, complete with a deconstruction of the antivaccine nonsense in Dr. Neides' post. Others, including <a href="http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/cleveland-clinic-physician-claims-vaccines-cause-autism-outrage-ensues/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&amp;utm_medium=facebook&amp;utm_source=socialnetwork">Skeptical Raptor</a> and <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2017/01/07/cleveland-clinic-goes-full-anti-vaccine/#4ce2e9b3408c">Tara Haelle</a>, have also begun the deconstruction, while <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ZDoggMD/posts/10154800766987095">ZDoggMD</a> posted an epic rant to Facebook:</p> <!--more--><iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FZDoggMD%2Fvideos%2F10154799367477095%2F&amp;show_text=0&amp;width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true"></iframe><p> For purposes of this post, I'm less interested in the specific antivaccine misinformation, pseudoscience, and lies contained Dr. Neides' post than I am in a bit of a broader question. Before I get to that, I do feel obligated to relay a bit more about what happened over the weekend after the rant was posted. On Sunday, Dr. Neides issued a <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2017/01/cleveland_clinic_doc_apologizes_for_anti_vax_column_hospital_promises_discipline.html">very unconvincing apology</a>, saying that that he "fully supports vaccination" and was only trying to open a conversation about their safety, not question their use. Later, through a Cleveland Clinic spokeswoman, he <a href="https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/08/cleveland-clinic-vaccines-response/">issued this statement</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> I apologize and regret publishing a blog that has caused so much concern and confusion for the public and medical community,” the statement said. “I fully support vaccinations and my concern was meant to be positive around the safety of them. </p></blockquote> <p>Given that Dr. Neides' post was full of loaded language about how angry he was about "toxins" and featured his likening vaccination to people being "lined up like cattle and injected with an unsafe product," I had a hard time believing that the good doctor was entirely sincere, if you know what I mean. After all, his imagery of cattle going to the slaughter is a common one used by antivaccine ideologues. The only positive thing I could say about Dr. Neides' original post was that at least he refrained from using the word "sheeple" to describe those being vaccinated. Given the spittle-flecked screed he produced, I can only imagine this took extreme self-restraint on his part.</p> <p>Also on Sunday, The Cleveland Clinic <a href="https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2017/01/08/statement-cleveland-clinic/">released a statement</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Cleveland Clinic is fully committed to evidence-based medicine. Harmful myths and untruths about vaccinations have been scientifically debunked in rigorous ways. We completely support vaccinations to protect people, especially children who are particularly vulnerable. Our physician published his statement without authorization from Cleveland Clinic. His views do not reflect the position of Cleveland Clinic and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken. </p></blockquote> <p>This is, of course, the bare minimum The Cleveland Clinic could have done, but I rather suspect its leadership is waiting until today to figure out what to do.</p> <p>In most of the Tweets and blog posts, the main concern was with deconstructing everything that was wrong in Dr. Neides' post (and there was plenty that was wrong), castigating The Cleveland Clinic for having someone like that on its faculty and staff, and demanding that The Cleveland Clinic do something, in particular fire Dr. Neides and clean up the quackery. That's all well and good, but I also noted that there were Cleveland Clinic physicians who, seemingly shocked that this sort of thing could have emanated from faculty at their institution.</p> <p>Indeed, I do feel for the science-based physicians and scientists who work for the Cleveland Clinic, and there are a lot of them. I really do. They're there, working at an institution they view to be evidence-based taking care of patients as well as they can using evidence-based guidelines and doing clinical research to advance the field, blissfully unaware of what <em>really</em> goes on at the Edwards Center for Integrative Medicine and the Wellness Institute affiliated with their institution. Like most physicians who don't take a interest in combatting quackery or in just how much quackademic medicine has infiltrated medical schools and academic medical centers, they have no clue just how bad it is. Then something like this happens, and they can't believe it. Their first instinct is to go on defense. Indeed, Amrit Gill, the patient safety officer at The Cleveland Clinic, took to Twitter to defend her institution:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/tarahaelle">@tarahaelle</a> one doctor does not represent all of <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a>. Overwhelming majority docs support vaccines and evidence based medicine.</p> <p>— Amrit Gill (@amritgillmd) <a href="https://twitter.com/amritgillmd/status/817935065019719680">January 8, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> A cutting response followed:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">If that's true, then why do <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a> docs tolerate rank quackery like reiki, functional medicine, and TCM at the Wellness Institute? <a href="https://t.co/TyLV5Wrtwh">https://t.co/TyLV5Wrtwh</a></p> <p>— David Gorski (@gorskon) <a href="https://twitter.com/gorskon/status/818163902043324416">January 8, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Another Cleveland Clinic doctor, quite understandably, protested:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Dr Cosgrove is himself very big proponent of vaccination and flu shot so definitely not CCF position by any means <a href="https://twitter.com/tarahaelle">@tarahaelle</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CleClinicMD">@CleClinicMD</a></p> <p>— gursimran kochhar (@GKochharMD) <a href="https://twitter.com/GKochharMD/status/817935518025531392">January 8, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> He's referring to <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/staff/237-delos-cosgrove">Delos Cosgrove, MD</a>, the president and chief executive officer of Cleveland Clinic. As such, Dr. Cosgrove must have at least signed off on the creation of the Wellness Institute and the Edwards Center for Integrative Medicine, if not been actively involved in their creation. He must have signed off on the creation of the Clinic's <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/24/quackademic-medicine-takes-it-to-the-next-level-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">traditional Chinese medicine herbal clinic</a>. Surely he must have approved the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/26/quackademic-medicine-tightens-its-hold-on-the-cleveland-clinic/">expansion of integrative medicine</a> in the pediatrics department. Surely he must have been involved in the recruitment of Dr. Mark Hyman and the creation of his <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">Center for Functional Medicine</a> at the Clinic. Surely he must be pleased that this clinic has been so successful that <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">it's expanding rapidly</a>, planning to double to accommodate a waitlist of over 1,000 patients.</p> <p>I also can't help but wonder if Dr. Cosgrove knew at the time The Cleveland Clinic recruited Dr. Hyman that Hyman was well known for attributing <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/08/dr-mark-hyman-mangles-autism-science-on/">autism to toxicity from vaccines</a>. OK, that was several years ago. So let's see about something more recent. I wonder if Dr. Cosgrove knew that, at the time of his recruitment, Dr. Hyman had just co-authored a book with antivaccine crank, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Thimerosal-Toxicity-Vaccines-Political-Regulatory/dp/1632206013/">Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak: Mercury Toxicity in Vaccines and the Political, Regulatory, and Media Failures That Continue to Threaten Public Health</a>. He should have, as the book was published before the Center for Functional Medicine was announced, and Hyman had <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/12/has-dr-oz-become-antivaccine/">appeared on <em>The Dr. Oz Show</em> with his co-author less than two weeks before</a> the center was announced.</p> <p>If Dr. Cosgrove is very much pro-vaccine, it apparently wasn't enough to keep him from hiring a doctor who had just co-authored a book fear mongering about thimerosal in vaccines, probably contemporaneously with his recruitment, to run a major new center at The Cleveland Clinic. I thus call bullshit that Dr. Cosgrove is truly pro-vaccine. At least, he's not pro-vaccine enough to actually do anything about it when it interferes with potential profits, such as putting the kibosh on recruiting Dr. Mark Hyman. It needs to be emphasized to Dr. Cosgrove that if you, as an institution, cultivate an institute where the culture is steeped in magical thinking, you should not be surprised if that magical thinking won't necessarily stay limited to areas where it's not harmful. It will spread and metastasize. The Cleveland Clinic has for the last 10 or 15 years actively cultivated quackery in its Center for Integrative Medicine. Given how much of the quackery being "integrated" shares DNA with antivaccine quackery, it's really no surprise that there are at least two antivaccine physicians, Mark Hyman and Daniel Neides, high up in the food chain at The Cleveland Clinic.</p> <p>There's no way around it. In the end, it must be pointed out that the Cleveland Clinic brought this PR debacle on itself. It was basically inevitable that antivaccine pseudoscience would eventually rear its ugly head in some form or another the moment the Clinic embraced quackery wholeheartedly for its Wellness Institute. Indeed, I welcome this PR meltdown, because I hope that it will finally shine a light on the utter quackery that has been promoted by the Cleveland Clinic over the last decade at least and how that quackery is inseparable from the antivaccine quackery promoted by Dr. Neides in his post. I also hope that this debacle shines attention on Dr. Hyman as well, who has largely gotten a pass.</p> <p>This is what happens when medical academia coddles quacks. The magical thinking will not be constrained.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Sun, 01/08/2017 - 21:18</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/autism" hreflang="en">autism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/news-weird" hreflang="en">News of the Weird</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/popular-culture" hreflang="en">Popular Culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/daniel-neides" hreflang="en">Daniel Neides</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/delos-cosgrove" hreflang="en">Delos Cosgrove</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/tanya-i-edwards-center-integrative-medicine" hreflang="en">Tanya I. Edwards Center for Integrative Medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccine" hreflang="en">vaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/wellness-institute" hreflang="en">Wellness Institute</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349795" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483929166"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wonder where the other doctors in the Wellness Clinic stand. I'm not optimistic.</p> <p>Also, since the doctor doubled down in the comments and given the content of his original article, I'll believe that not apology after he publishes an article acknowledging his errors and correcting them. Right now it reads incredibly insincere,</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349795&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tjcQ3N-IfJ4xbO9Db-ahs9TBcjYsAx-vL4dKLusPguA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 08 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349795">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349796" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483935448"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I’m shocked, shocked to find that alt-med scamming and grifting is going on here!<br /> Oh, thank you very much.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349796&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7OVK82b8qIsNssYno-kiqQN3kOWT4XuHCAhPo2xsIc4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 08 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349796">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349797" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483938964"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Please note: This column was inexplicably removed from cleveland.com for a few hours, but has now been restored in it's entirety. </p> <p>Bummer</p> <p>Comments seem to be closed, so I'll leave one here.</p> <p>For those born in the 1950's and 60's, do you recall a single student in your grade with an Individualized Education Program (IEP) for ADHD or someone with a diagnosis of autism? I do not.</p> <p>I remember lots and lots! They were in separate classrooms then! Obviously this idiot didn't have a family member with special needs and managed to ignore the population he claims to care about.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349797&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nieEiuEdua0qsSAA4KU9AOrlPMRbpAcawUXws8o061Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349797">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349798" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483942370"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Christine Rose: nope, never heard of a student with an IEP when I was a child in elementary school in the 1960's and early 70's. However, I *do* remember the one kid who threw huge tantrums, tossed desks around and hid in corners when schedules changed or his activity was disrupted when we were in kindergarden. By the time he was in 6th grade, he had calmed down, but still had no friends because everyone was afraid of him.</p> <p>I remember the " ****** room" where several students were housed like cattle. I didn't ever know how many kids were in there. The door was always kept locked unless a child was being escorted to the bathroom, and we never interacted with any of the children or the staff in there. In a school where you knew every teacher's name by the time you were in 4th grade, we never knew any of the adults in that classroom.</p> <p>One of my friends, who lived across the street, would have been diagnosed as either ASD or Asperger's in today's world. Back then, we just thought he was "weird" but otherwise didn't give him a thought. If he wanted to play, fine. If he wanted to read his father's college math books instead, that was OK too.</p> <p>But nope. No kids had autism back then. Nope. Of course not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349798&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7J3hp-dFLIZ0Srcw0Jco6X9chagalP_eNqySK330uO4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349798">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349799" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483943414"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I got an incredibly whimpy reply on the Cleveland Clinic Children's Hospital Facebook page stating they support vaccines, blah blah when I posted a complaint there.</p> <p>That's nice. I'm sure a majority of them do--in a very passively worthless manner.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349799&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IaoqDI-s-jr1EK0srW3LEtujkTxeL0Ep8gLm6A_mJ1k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349799">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349800" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483945877"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is more than anti-vaccine idiocy bouncing about Dr. Neides' mind. He's not too enthralled with GMO and doesn't hesitate to roll out nonsense when condemning their existence. Oh and the whol TRIM-LIFE Program! </p> <p>Here's his GMO post: <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2016/06/to_combat_chemicals_in_our_foo.html">http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2016/06/to_co…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349800&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="anpVl0R4ImVt_J6fsVqZPI0xOTfD0QH_fRyjmwigZS0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chemist (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349800">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349801" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483947214"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>All too predictable, here in Australia we had the University of Woolongong give a degree to an Anti-Vaxxer based on a thesis that was riddled with conspiracy theories, innuendo and outright falsehoods. </p> <p>When people complained the response was 'Academic Freedom' , and nothing has been done either to censure those who gave the degree or to identify the referees who signed off on the thesis.</p> <p>All I can say is keep up the pressure, it's the only way to win.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349801&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pnxLiCk0R17ZWB_g8lRibBNatBnlJ7JrEoYSzD8_WTI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Graham (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349801">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349802" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483947801"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Neides-GMO link appears to be dead, but a Google search turns up another cleveland.com article with rank pseudoscientific nonsense from Dr. Neides, starting with this:</p> <p>" I need to make a correction from last month's article. I incorrectly stated that wheat may come from GMO (genetically modified organism) sources. That is incorrect. At this time, the USDA has not approved GMO seed for wheat. Our wheat has been genetically engineered to its current form but we cannot call it GMO. Sounds like semantics but I want to be accurate."</p> <p>Huh? Yes, Doc, our wheat has been "genetically engineered" to produce current commercial varieties - the "old-fashioned" way by traditional plant breeding. This apparently alarms the good doctor, who has not gotten the anti-GMOists' message that this sort of breeding (which results in unexpected and random genetic combinations) is Good and specific gene insertions are Bad. Hilarious. </p> <p>"Whether or not GMO seed is harmful to humans is still up to debate. Long-term scientific data will ultimately provide us with those answers."</p> <p>There have been thousands of studies validating GM crop/produce safety and a comprehensive review by a panel of the National Academy of Sciences making the same conclusion, but don't hold your breath waiting for Neides to acknowledge this. Oh, and Neides seems to have jumped on the Stephanie Seneff bandwagon, blaming glyphosate for a laundry list of ailments.</p> <p>"The diseases to which glyphosate may contribute include inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, infertility and developmental malformations."</p> <p>There's no good evidence for any of this, but that doesn't stop Dr. Neides.</p> <p>He's an embarassment to Cleveland Clinic, but It's highly likely he has plenty of similarly-minded colleagues over in the integrative medicine division.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349802&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q3Q0KcikJ8aG8CACh4xlB8cODmbfncvlzvTNWnjyGGU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349802">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349803" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483947897"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HDB's Casablanca reference is quite apt. The role of the croupier is being played here by either Tanya I. Edwards herself, or somebody making the donation in her memory.</p> <p>As president of a quasi-academic institution, Dr. Cosgrove is expected to spend a great deal of his time fundraising. It's difficult for somebody in such a position to turn down a large donation, even for something like a Center for Integrative Medicine. It's even harder to do so when woo is already infesting your institution. Put another way: We have already established what Dr. Cosgrove is, we're merely haggling over the price.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349803&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BfcqUsXTG1zG4HiMGggBbFG3KbEPVbIoBI52YYwqBW8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349803">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349804" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483949059"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@3 Christine Rose<br /> "do you recall ...?<br /> No but we did not have such things to begin with. Any child with really serious problems would have been carted off to a regional residential institution. We' never see them, and unless they were in our own families, never even hear of them.</p> <p>I do remember my mother (teacher with 20+ years of experience) doing some supply teaching in about 1963 and discovering a child with severe dysgraphia. She had no idea of what to do with the problem and it was not clear that the permanent staff had any better idea. </p> <p>And given a rural, farming community, it is quite likely that anyone with such a problem would simply drop out of school with no fuss. Legally one had to say in school until passing grade 8 or age 14 whichever came first but no one was likely to object. </p> <p>In those days, education was highly valued but not considered essential.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349804&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AyfxjmH53ZpPfldNgUWPzsThbA_WhpuDAQy3Mj4dZzM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349804">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349805" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483949367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Graham, if you're interested Orac blogged about Judy Wilyman last year. She's the one who earned that PhD.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349805&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wjjOQUjh7OqtYURxi0fKIG9Zle3NqRR54Dcwo9T2dYU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349805">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349806" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483950744"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OT but speaking of creeping WOO (very nasty but calomine helps) has any one seen anything about this? <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/cancer-survivors-yoga-study-1.3916193">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/cancer-survivors-yoga-study-1.391…</a></p> <p>It looks like woo but it may just be an adjunct treatment that the researchers are trying out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349806&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qvY5RyZ4HuNx9UJKkAFgwCkCoDqxetn12-ppkQSqVOs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349806">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349807" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483950976"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sounds like I moved in different circles than y'all. I remember my mother telling me that "learning disabled" was now being called "attention deficit disorder." My mother literally ran a camp for the learning disabled. I met hundreds of special needs children, but aside from my mother's contacts, there were many specials needs children in my schools, and were in special or regular classrooms to various degrees.</p> <p>Look back on the kids that were always bullied, and you may remember a few.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349807&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_OYd5kUqexAle6bcCh-2m3s-cC84mTWw8dt7mwu4h_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349807">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349808" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483951432"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Within 12 hours of receiving the vaccine, I was in bed feeling miserable and missed two days of work with a terrible cough and body aches.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh, for the personnel records on this one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349808&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r-e_SF4hiGfuUNvF6-ZJ3P_DXVy0xk4nXJY4sM_JY_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349808">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349809" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483952861"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It was pointed out to me by the talented Fiona O'Leary that the Cleveland Climic also refers to autism as "a treatable medical condition."</p> <p><a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/childrens-hospital/medical-professionals/autism-development-solutions">http://my.clevelandclinic.org/childrens-hospital/medical-professionals/…</a></p> <p>One wonders what they offer to treat it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349809&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MN4Ltz4ymYpmAtFTy7L6YLGKDTwTFzXfWEhoNu1q9ds"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349809">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349810" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483954449"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Christine Rose:</p> <blockquote><p>Sounds like I moved in different circles than y’all.</p></blockquote> <p>I think there may have been a bit of confusion over your not noting that part of your comment was a quote from Niedes:</p> <p>"For those born in the 1950’s and 60’s, do you recall a single student in your grade with an Individualized Education Program (IEP) for ADHD or someone with a diagnosis of autism? I do not."</p> <p>Or maybe I'm not fully awake.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349810&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dGrKtwxw6Ij2KTx6fl0k_FCajPjvjc_Ca5rosm5XcRw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349810">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349811" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483955725"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'd like to see some research on ways in which this kind of crap gets into legitimate medical care and academic institutions.</p> <p>I very strongly suspect that the majority of it happens because one or two individuals penetrate the bulwarks, carrying the pestilence with them. Tenure and notions of academic freedom select for reason resistance while most people go about their duties without paying much attention to the suppurating carbuncle. Next thing they know, the thing has burst, pus is splattered all over the walls and nobody really wants to be the one to step up and hose the place down with formaldehyde.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349811&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aysIk2A24oKLcduvVr2mmeMzZTPcLR-sj2hPMQx9XB8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349811">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349812" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483957444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Doug</p> <p>I suspect your suspicions are correct.</p> <p>Whenever I see a new doc or specialist at my medical institution (a large regional academic medical institution), I let them know I am science-based and not into any sort of woo. He or she usually seems puzzled, so I ask her how she feels about the institution’s recently opened “integrative care center”. So far, none of them have heard of it, or even seem to know what I am taling about. I’m not sure if this is good or bad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349812&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ic3-_8OtUyn6tsBXCdPvBQ5rknVIrQ-oNE02liLwfMk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">darwinslapdog (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349812">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349813" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483957937"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I remember my mother telling me that “learning disabled” was now being called “attention deficit disorder.”</p></blockquote> <p>Wait, what? There are various kinds of learning disabilities. ADD (or ADHD, as it's usually called these days) is only one of them. The category of "learning disabilities" includes things like dyslexia. Autism, depending on the severity, might be another.</p> <p>It has been federal law since the 1990s that these kids must be accommodated in a regular classroom if at all possible. So if you are in your 40s or older, you are not imagining that there are more of these kids in classrooms than there were when you were a student. But vaccines have nothing to do with that change.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349813&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sBQ5wB2GZ517UN9aei3U5WgMJ5ez2kBIoDzsdsy2lKM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349813">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349814" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483958740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oracyism -The practice of making accusations of antivaccine or vaccine quackery with insolence.</p> <p>@doug (#17),</p> <p>Is the over-expression of Oracyism that much different than McCarthyism?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349814&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="97ToMdu_BOIK_l32ITlayY04zkFc3AAfqhUHcJE7y-Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349814">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349815" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483958796"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The Neides-GMO link appears to be dead</p></blockquote> <p>There was some cruft tacked on at the end. It's <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-south-euclid/index.ssf/2016/06/to_combat_chemicals_in_our_foo.html">here</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349815&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="69QeEkKH0Sj_fjbSyIHO9zS9csJ6mXFacv4myDoIGqk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349815">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349816" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483959301"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Before his completely inadequate apology, Neides doubled down in the comments of his post on his vaccine and GMO fear mongering. <a href="http://kfolta.blogspot.com/2017/01/cleveland-clinic-quackery.html">See Kevin Folta's discussion</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349816&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vvVjvC-6v7Cql3pXyjEpHPquqFO2ng2MsXjxajwsmlQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349816">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349817" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483961371"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“The diseases to which glyphosate may contribute include inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, infertility and developmental malformations.”</p></blockquote> <p>It's toxins all the way down.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349817&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ty89KO1UFiBbgT7CXOSPiJHOx37s4V1T5Nxi_UeVr_o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349817">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349818" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483963675"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Christine Rose: my apologies. I did misread your comment and didn't realize you were quoting Dr Neides about the "no IEPs". </p> <p>Next time I will drink my coffee before commenting. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349818&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7AAU1bFrHs02fcN2meW8_Slu50da347swUb1DQNvtyI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349818">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349819" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483966040"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Before his completely inadequate apology, Neides doubled down in the comments of his post on his vaccine and GMO fear mongering. See Kevin Folta’s discussion."</p> <p>Neides (responding in a comment): "So if a vaccine is labeled as preservative free then why is there formaldehyde in it?"</p> <p>This is a level of nincompoopery on a par with the Food Babe being indignant that airlines don't provide passengers with 100% oxygen to breathe in the cabin, but instead dilute it with other gases like nitrogen.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349819&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yemK2fG0b9ERmWP2tJOwPiweWfrDsqG7rYvlk_GIUpk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349819">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349820" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483966476"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, Anne and Kim @ AoA, today, seem to have found a new maverick doctor - Neides- to champion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349820&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QQer0un5l6fE-5GqeWnBOQWSOZWTCAq17EgHyWp3cjs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349820">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349821" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483967193"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ZDogg!!</p> <p>I predicted they'd fire Ben Swann in 2016 for making up fake news using a national media corporate logo. Didn't happen. But maybe they the Clinic can "part ways for personal reasons" with a health care professional that isn't using evidence based medicine and making up a toxins gambit to keep the manufacturversied health scare alive. 2017 prediction....locating the inner cha, Dr Neides</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349821&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BdCyoiLiMAfWAP1eOl0e5O88XyB0Z_ZdNaWumIZugg8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349821">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349822" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483968012"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Speaking of the Food Babe, she's now touting the old woo about sugar</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349822&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HlxXp-buzgLz0UoWrWK4LXLhkB9C7oEa7fhIH95i3Ss"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349822">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349823" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483968255"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dangerous Bacon #8</p> <blockquote><p>our wheat has been “genetically engineered” to produce current commercial varieties – the “old-fashioned” way by traditional plant breeding.</p></blockquote> <p>That's not very true, is it? Our 'modern' wheat is a product of <b>mutation</b> breeding employing chemicals such as colchicine and sodium azide or with x-ray/gamma radiation as the mutagen. </p> <p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349823&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VgWyGI7kfvaWXy8U91j-dbsrECkjG5g5URtQwZjysPw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349823">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349824" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483969508"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I predicted they’d fire Ben Swann in 2016 for making up fake news using a national media corporate logo. Didn’t happen.</p></blockquote> <p>In case you haven't noticed, making up fake news using a national media corporate logo tends to be rewarded in this country, as long as the fake news flatters the predisposition of the bosses on the issue in question. Ben Swann is small potatoes compared to people like Sean Hannity or Joe Scarborough.</p> <p>As for your 2017 prediction: Also not happening. The Cleveland Clinic is too far down that particular rabbit hole to stop now, at least as long as Dr. Cosgrove is president and CEO. So far, they are finding that sweet donation money to outweigh any putative pharma shill money. If Dr. Cosgrove were to step down this year, then I would bump the chances of Dr. Neides being pushed out to "slim" from the current "none". But as long as Cosgrove stays, the only possibilities for Neides to leave would be (1) dropping dead or something close to that, or (2) accepting a better offer elsewhere.</p> <p>That's assuming Dr. Neides doesn't have tenure or the equivalent. Orac, who did a residency (IIRC) at the Cleveland Clinic, would know better than I whether the Cleveland Clinic has something akin to tenure. If he does have that status, then pushing Dr. Neides out would require something in the dead girl/live boy category.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349824&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IaW8nl719SRt3zqsVr48MYxLIjd68Lt06dhyKY7OFBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349824">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349825" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483970540"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Of course, the argument can be made that mutation breeding is a more sped up version of what nature already does through cosmic rays or just for the hell of it. This is unlike GMO which is mostly transgenic such as bacillus thurgensis genes in corn; Nature never knew codons like that.</p> <blockquote><p>Though poorly known, radiation breeding has produced thousands of useful mutants and a sizable fraction of the world’s crops, Dr. Lagoda said, including varieties of rice, wheat, barley, pears, peas, cotton, peppermint, sunflowers, peanuts, grapefruit, sesame, bananas, cassava and sorghum. The mutant wheat is used for bread and pasta and the mutant barley for beer and fine whiskey..</p> <p>Dr. Lagoda takes pains to distinguish the little-known radiation work from the contentious field of genetically modified crops, sometimes disparaged as “Frankenfood.” That practice can splice foreign genetic material into plants...</p> <p>“Spontaneous mutations are the motor of evolution,” Dr. Lagoda said. “We are mimicking nature in this. We’re concentrating time and space for the breeder so he can do the job in his lifetime.<br /><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/28/science/28crop.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/28/science/28crop.html</a></p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349825&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3QNGofLdxdb38EdkIMfXhNBaNcRzj7ZusVqfpj9N1a0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349825">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349826" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483974086"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think we went through this all before with some under-the-bridge-dweller.<br /> I can testify to the "missing" special needs kids' location. They were in the "special ed" class my father taught for a few years. They were in the residential State School my mother worked at for her Masters in Special Education. They were in snakepits like Willowbrook on Staten Island (Exposing Willowbrook was the high point of Geraldo Rivera's journalism career.). They were quick to institutionalize, too - my mother saw a child who was in the state school for years, "diagnosed" as retarded, when he was merely deaf. They were in the "slow track" in the public schools. I can't attest to this personally, but I don't doubt that some were kept hidden out of shame and fear.<br /> Others, me included, were the other side of the coin, dispersed throughout the system. No one knew what to do with us - there wasn't a name for it. If anyone thought to do anything for me, it was either a session with the guidance counselor, who was as useful as teats on a boar hog, or at the psychoanalyst, who was a Freudian, and therefore was full of shit and useless when not being downright harmful.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349826&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o-BG_L_UnsbL_CBqWaWfOzCyVG-L7cDklVLT9FvMz2A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Old Rockin&#039; Dave (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349826">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349827" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483974442"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>as well as the Associate Director of Clinical Education for The Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine</p></blockquote> <p>I suspect that the originally linked page is out of date. See <a href="http://portals.clevelandclinic.org/cclcm/faculty/currentcollegefaculty/tabid/7357/default.aspx">here</a> (Craig Nielsen) and page 15 <a href="http://alumni.clevelandclinic.org/images/Publications/win2015.pdf">here</a> (PDF; "Craig Nielsen, MD, assumed the role of Associate Director of Clinical Education, replacing Daniel Neides, MD, who transitioned from that role to become the Medical Director of the Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute").</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349827&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WstTbd9wx1SXE9MUwMHeD04ocEAeTIly2N4Mu1uiDxI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349827">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349828" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483979274"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Eric -- well, we can all have a new year's wish.</p> <p>Did you listen to the later vid segments by ZDogg? Holy cow, he called for termination. Boom!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349828&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X3z6eqPshbsXhKniX4rQNE14FiDTC_3x9xFzrPO6aCc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349828">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349829" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483983916"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, of COURSE there were no IEPs in the 60s and 70s! The IEP itself did not exist until passage of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of 2004, which, for those following along at home, is later than the 1960s and 1970s.</p> <p>*sigh*</p> <p>I notice Gorksi's tweet was responded to only with "but she's not antivaccine!" rather than any response to all the rest of the stuff he brought up, like reiki. (And pardon my ignorance, but what does "CCF" stand for?)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349829&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8E7XFINfnd0GIwIyoUEVGyh-ujElQiMZY6vZkY9uD-Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349829">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349830" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483985425"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Calli: I think CCF is Cleveland Clinic Foundation.</p> <p>If one wanted to go totally nuclear, one could mention to PETA that the Cleveland Clinic uses and promotes TCM, which uses bits of endangered animals. That would be a sight to see!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349830&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oab1frPGfSyl7wXBlvCPnZk6680JBaX-Xd2RCGnjtdI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349830">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349831" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483986276"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Minor correction, Callie.</p> <p>The original version of IDEA was passed in 1975.</p> <p>The 2004 amendment did add the requirement for IEP's for disabled students. </p> <p>My daughter was born I need 1990 and she got an IEPS as a gifted student when she was in 1st grade.</p> <p>Bit I don't remember them from the 50s and 60s.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349831&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lRWN7AmDSOz05-O9CFKacoFWF69UBeqP3liGboyH_p4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349831">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349832" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483986631"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Cleveland Clinic needs to detoxify its brand. Getting rid of one self-unmasked antivaxxer won't cut it.</p> <p>Functional medicine is garbage whose only function is to make the Clinic easy money by massaging money out of not seriously sick but rich folk. </p> <p>Integrative medicine seeks to integrate hard won 21st Century medicine with cheap and easy 15th Century magical thinking.</p> <p>Unless that's exactly what they want their brand of medicine to be.</p> <p>ZDoggMD is my new hero.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349832&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cgYVZGWbDAN8xViUzMuZorbfFnnkLftzGMaS_KYoy50"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Leigh Jackson (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349832">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349833" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483988316"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Because of robots.txt, The Cleveland Clinic makes it impossible to use WebCite or Internet Archive to grab a stable cache of the post. It is a sneaky way for some quack websites to prevent people from holding them accountable for what they write. I think the Food Babe did this early on.</p> <p>However, there is another cache service called archive . is that works despite this. I tried to grab a cache, but noticed that someone had already done so at January 7: archive . is / GdYjK.</p> <p>Dr. Daniel Neides can now do nothing to hide his tracks and neither can his institute.</p> <p>I think these kinds of PR meltdowns are great because it highlights both the large spread and problem inherent in quackademic medicine. Imagine if, say, an airplane company or the air force had "alternative engineers" that were responsible for making or maintaining aircraft. Nope, cannot imagine it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349833&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zff41DAwUxMun7qo-rHYcvMSyHVo8658a2J5_N8kEwE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Emil Karlsson (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349833">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349834" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1483993245"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Wellness Clinic" - well, that figures. Alt Med types love to treat well people. It's the sick and injured that throw them for a loop.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349834&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2PIuoz_EPV055nDEN2Wa_P2xcjYkfKQn3MpJm7_jvxA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DaveL (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349834">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349835" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484003827"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>squirrelelite: "The 2004 amendment did add the requirement for IEP’s for disabled students."</p> <p>My son was born in 1988, and I just checked his big box of school/medical records. There are IEPs dating back to 1991 when he was in preschool. They may not have been <i>required</i> but they did exist.</p> <p>What did not exist before 1975 was a disabled child's right to an education. There are many stories, especially in certain parts of the country of children being refused admission to public school for not being able to do something as "simple as speaking." My kid could not speak. </p> <p>In around 1991 I was told by his less than ten years from retirement preschool teacher that the program he was in was created when kids who could hear but could not speak were put in with the hard of hearing kids. It turned out there was a need for "speech disabled" kids. (with a bit of Google stalking, it turns out many of them, like my son, were later diagnosed with autism)</p> <p>She also told me that fifteen to twenty years earlier my kid would have been put into an institution in our state. Just because he could not speak.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349835&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="V5ZwMiqmvu52D3P9Sfg1u13otj0sJCS-tjY8qV0HVdY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349835">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349836" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484006562"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A lot of us have been discussing this on Facebook, the idea that CC brought this mess upon themselves for having a "wellness clinic." What were they thinking in creating this clinic in the first place? If they don't get rid of the association with "wellness" practitioners, this is just going to happen again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349836&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8FSbGVrz26pwSLyah_obQg6eBB0iEwGoEq00SeLBeHA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kathy (not verified)</span> on 09 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349836">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349837" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484030181"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Neides is being what the charitable among us might call disingenuous with his comments about not seeing bairns with ADHD in classrooms in the '60s and '70s, partly because the APA did not include the diagnostic term "ADHD" in DSM until the revised version of DSM-III in 1987.</p> <p>Prior to that in DSM-II in 1968 they used the term "hyperkinetic impulse disorder" and in the original version of DSM-III in 1980 used ADD for the first time, with 2 sub-divisions - with or without hyperactivity.</p> <p>If only there were some handy way that he could have checked that out before putting finger to keyboard...</p> <p>And, as noted, those of us of a certain age will recall some kids who would now receive a diagnosis of AS or ADHD. And that a selective education system, such as operated in UK-ia at the time would have filtered many of those bairns off into the "lower" tiers of the system.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349837&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="V_snmWpK-vXngK8sdo1CepgXNA4NL-_VoD4LH38-Zn4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Murmur (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349837">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349838" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484030429"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In fact, here's an interesting overview of the history of ADHD if anyone is interested:</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000907/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000907/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349838&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bWx-N0L3qKjsQFiRtnbXtn5G-I98Ddstjq81cTvkn3U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Murmur (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349838">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349839" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484037509"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dangerous Bacon</p> <p><i>"This is a level of nincompoopery on a par with the Food Babe ...:</i></p> <p>Did anyone catch that Food Babe is actually mentioned in Neides' ant-vax blog? In a once removed sort of way, but still...</p> <p>"In a 2015 article in U.S. News and World Report, Jessica Hutchins, M.D., IFM certified practitioner, states, 'Information on eating toxin-free food and pushing food manufacturers to stop using harmful ingredients can be found at foodbabe.com'."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349839&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PnVPpSgTa9ggTS6B2X1xQT7SDsXLqwjkw8KJ6ryk0uI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Notchka (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349839">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349840" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484049645"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>squirrelelite:</p> <blockquote><p>Minor correction, Callie.</p> <p>The original version of IDEA was passed in 1975.</p> <p>The 2004 amendment did add the requirement for IEP’s for disabled students. </p></blockquote> <p>Well, that is pretty much why I called out the IDEA of 2004, specifically. ;-)</p> <p>My brother received special education in the 1980s and 1990s under older versions of IDEA, but did not have an IEP for the simple reason that they did not yet exist.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349840&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="t3nZH9yzeSze19nWiFCluGe_kgbBcN7ydmcqNpIwgZo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349840">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349841" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484054159"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Calli Arcale: "but did not have an IEP for the simple reason that they did not yet exist."</p> <p>Though they did in my state. Sometimes the states started programs that were added to the federal law. I remember redubg that this state, along with California created laws years before the first IDEA. The latter is in a couple of recent books on autism, but I can't find the history on our state because has a name is the same as the national capital and several universities.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349841&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iODE329AUWNwgeaXU2FhK-lRudgzP8hpZLUzFgbkv8U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349841">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349842" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484056241"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chris and Calli,</p> <p>Thanks for your replies.</p> <p>I think the key point to keep making is that people with mental disabilities like ASD and ADHD have been there all along. They just were classified and treated differently (medically and in the schools).</p> <p>For instance, Bill Sackter was born in 1913. When he had trouble learning and scored poorly on an IQ test at age 7, he was classified as "subnormal", determined to be a burden to society, and sent to the Faribault State School for the Feeble-Minded and Epileptic for the next 44 years.</p> <p>Kim Peek, the other inspiration for the movie Rain Man, didn't attend school till he was 7 (1958?) and was expelled after just 7 minutes for being uncontrollable.<br /> After that he was home tutored.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349842&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e7YmNHTHBrkYlo9bks9dyuTBqqlNtYp_JQiyrviY-pI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349842">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349843" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484056265"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I found something dating 1996 about IDEA that discusses IEPs:<br /><a href="http://www.futureofchildren.org/publications/docs/06_01_01.pdf">http://www.futureofchildren.org/publications/docs/06_01_01.pdf</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349843&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2bkX7qwLrNQWF-wnWSPlUFT6yfPlhZGLQ50vDTY6Gi4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349843">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349844" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484056820"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>squirrelelite, I know this may be a false memory, but it involves being in a classroom where the teacher pinned a picture on a little boy's back that said "wiggle worm." This would have been in the early 1960s, in one of the four states I lived during kindergarten and first grade (Army brat and the Cuban Missile Crisis).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349844&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uSp5IHkEuRr-ZK3Kv7rTaO-X1zhMm8bXncDPUQB26SQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349844">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349845" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484057513"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Washington Post: Trump asks vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. to lead commission on ‘vaccine safety’</p> <p><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-meet-with-proponent-of-debunked-tie-between-vaccines-and-autism/2017/01/10/4a5d03c0-d752-11e6-9f9f-5cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html">https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-meet-with-proponent-of…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349845&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qV7dhwzkt9r2urkFxm3hHIOjpxwKz3uGyPexcwB_o1Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349845">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349846" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484062411"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re there not being learning disabilities or autism in the 50's and 60's:</p> <p>I was born in 1965, and have a learning disability similar to dyslexia; my brain scrambles letters and numbers. You see it in my spelling, and the difficulties I have with mathematics, especially algebra. I am also on the spectrum (Asperger's). </p> <p>My parents tried to get an IEP for me in 1977. My teachers refused to have anything to do with it, and the principal (a colossal wimp) wouldn't do anything to force them. My math teacher routinely marked my homework and test answers wrong because I used a problem solving method that differed from hers, even though I always got the right answer. </p> <p>The psychologists, pediatricians, and social workers at DC's Children's Hospital said they had never encountered a school so unwilling to help a student. One of my teachers accused me of using my disability as a crutch, that I was lazy and didn't want to do the work. She was my English teacher; yet I was reading college level books by the 5th grade.</p> <p>Why should I want to do the work when I get a zero on the work even when it was correctly done? I checked out of middle school, mentally. Between the teachers who bullied me on academics and the kids who beat me up over anything else, I couldn't cope.</p> <p>Thank God high school was a different story. I would have dropped out if things hadn't changed.</p> <p>One of my nephews has ADHD. His parents got an IEP for him; he skipped the 8th grade and is taking college courses while still in high school.</p> <p>Neither of us are "vaccine injured."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349846&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pt3j4AzXbBuvru_UCBKd6wZOE0MI0ua6I2zeBH10fxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349846">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484062750"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Washington Post: Trump asks vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. to lead commission on ‘vaccine safety’</i></p> <p><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-meet-with-proponent-of-debunked-tie-between-vaccines-and-autism/2017/01/10/4a5d03c0-d752-11e6-9f9f-5cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html">https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-meet-with-proponent-of…</a></p> <p>In other news, Trump has asked civil rights enthusiast Sessions to lead a commission on 'racial integration.'</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2vkXH21Sn707wiOpiIJFViAdPaY8ZmLe0wfNFaFHSvg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Delphine (not verified)</span> on 10 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1349848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1484142658"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Murmur @45: Thanks for the link! I'll have to save that one for when people tell me that ADHD was invented in the 1990's and that I should give back all my degrees because I am appropriately medicated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1349848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="un1fDzsCdiEL7sntuk2p9NSK76pydxoDEDmKPl7gt7s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 11 Jan 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1349848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/01/09/antivaccine-pseudoscience-at-the-cleveland-clinic-thats-what-happens-when-you-allow-magical-thinking-to-take-hold%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 09 Jan 2017 02:18:49 +0000 oracknows 22466 at https://scienceblogs.com Medscape enables functional medicine quackery https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/10/14/medscape-enables-functional-medicine-quackery <span>Medscape enables functional medicine quackery</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It’s no secret that I’m not exactly a fan of Dr. Mark Hyman he of the “Ultrawellness” medical empire and arguably the foremost promoter of the “subspecialty” (if you will) of “integrative medicine” known as functional medicine. Integrative medicine, as I’ve told you time and time again, is a specialty dedicated to “integrating” alternative medicine into conventional science-based medicine; i.e., integrating quackery into medicine. One very prominent, very common strain of integrative medicine is known as functional medicine, and Mark Hyman is, although not its originator, its current main guru. I first encountered him back when he was known primarily for his <a href="http://www.ultrawellnesscenter.com" rel="”nofollow”">UltraWellness Center</a>, which he still runs. Given his background, I was disappointed to see Medscape doing a three part interview with Dr. Hyman, “The New, Old World of Functional Medicine” (<a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/869371">Part 1</a>, <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/869372">Part 2</a>, and <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/869373#vp_1">Part 3</a>). Reading Hyman’s blather, as you might imagine, can’t help but attract the attention of this blinky box of lights.</p> <p>When I first encountered Hyman, lo those several years ago, it was because he had drawn my attention by busily mangling autism science, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/11/09/mark-hyman-mangling-cancer-research/">cancer biology, and systems biology</a> in the service of woo and arguing that we should <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/10/12/dr-mark-hyman-lets-turn-back-the-clock-o/">turn back the clock and rely on</a> anecdote-based medicine instead of evidence-based medicine. These days, he’s head honcho at a new <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">functional medicine clinic</a> at the Cleveland Clinic, which, unfortunately, appears to be a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">wildly successful</a>. He’s even been <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/21/bill-and-hillary-clinton-embrace-functional-medicine/">counseling Bill and Hillary Clinton</a> about their health and, should Clinton be elected, be an influential advisor on health issues. Unfortunately, the alternative, Donald Trump, is far worse, given his <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/09/15/the-long-sordid-antivaccine-history-of-donald-trump/">hard core antivaccine beliefs</a> and all his <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/07/21/the-republican-party-of-donald-trump-vs-science/">other baggage</a> and vile <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/05/03/the-republican-party-is-on-the-verge-of-nominating-an-antivaccine-loon-named-donald-trump/">behavior</a>. Unfortunately, Hyman also shares some of those antivaccine views, having <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/07/22/robert-f-kennedy-jr-still-an-antivaccine-crank-after-all-these-years/">co-authored an antivaccine book with Robert F. Kennedy</a>, Jr. and <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/12/has-dr-oz-become-antivaccine/">appeared on <em>The Dr. Oz Show</em></a> to help him promote it.</p> <!--more--><p>Functional medicine, of course, is quackery. It’s actually one of the harder forms of quackery to explain, for the simple reason that functional medicine practitioners sure sound science-y. They do lots of lab tests—<em>lots</em> of lab tests!—and act on them all, replenishing nutrients, trace elements, and vitamins whether it’s necessary or not and “personalizing” treatments based on the “biochemical individuality” of each individual. Of course, as I like to say, this appeal to “biochemical individuality” is functional medicine’s “get out of jail free” card for basically anything its practitioners want to do. They can always find ways to justify <em>any</em> form of treatment, be it science-based or quackery, simply by invoking the “biochemical individuality” of each human being. The problem is this. Human beings are individuals, and each human being is unique. There’s no denying that. However, we’re not so unique that our bodies don’t all work pretty much the same way. In other words, in terms of biology, physiology, and yes, systems biology, human beings are far more alike than they are different. If that weren’t the case, modern medicine, developed before we had the tools to probe our genetic individuality, wouldn’t work as well as it does. FM fetishizes “biochemical individuality,” not so much because humans are so incredibly different that each one absolutely has to have a markedly different treatment. We’re not. FM fetishizes “individuality” because it distinguishes FM as a brand from science-based medicine and, I suspect, because it makes FM practitioners feel good, like “total” doctors never at a loss for an explanation for a patient’s symptoms or clinical condition. As for the last bit about FM being a “science-using” profession, I like to say that FM “uses” science the same way that an illusionist or magician uses misdirection: So that the audience can’t see how he pulls off his trick. That’s the short version. The long version is that <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/18/the-quackery-of-so-called-functional-medicine-making-it-up-as-you-go-along/">functional medicine is making it up as you go along</a>.</p> <p>In fact, one of the things about functional medicine that I never understood is why it's so popular with those drawn to "complementary and alternative medicine" (CAM) or, as it's now called "integrative medicine." People drawn to CAM tend to be interested in more "natural" medical treatments and suspicious of conventional medicine. Yet, from my perspective, functional medicine takes one of worst aspects of conventional medicine, namely its tendency towards overtesting, and puts it on steroids, leading to overtesting to the Nth degree. Just go back and reread my post about the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/18/the-quackery-of-so-called-functional-medicine-making-it-up-as-you-go-along/">functional medicine case report of a woman with breast cancer</a>. The functional medicine doctors who treated that woman ordered a dizzying array of unnecessary and unhelpful laboratory tests and put her on a boatload of supplements, nearly all unnecessary. The only things the functional medicine doctors suggested that might have helped the patient were exercise, a personal care giver, counseling, and perhaps her sleep log to help her get enough sleep. So, basically functional medicine combines one of the worst aspects of conventional medicine (the tendency to test every lab value under the sun), cranks it to orders of magnitude worse, and then adds woo. Maybe it's the woo that attracts patients, with the lab testing that leads them to thinking that the functional medicine doctors know what they are talking about when they extrapolate from basic science to think that measuring these markers gives them any guidance whatsoever about how to manage their patients' problems, not realizing that they're basically doing the equivalent of reading the entrails of goats, given that there are no high quality data that clearly tell doctors what to do with many of the lab test values they order.</p> <p>So why was Medscape interviewing Dr. Hyman? Who knows what got into Dr Hansa Bhargava, medical editor for Medscape and WebMD? Whatever it was, she for some reason thought that a fawning interview with one of the foremost practitioners of quackademic medicine was a good idea, thus lowering Medscape still farther in my estimation. One thing I found interesting that I didn’t know about Hyman before was the circumstance of his conversion to functional medicine, which he relates in <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/869371">Part 1</a> of the interview. Basically, he started out as a family doctor in a small town in Idaho, after which he worked as an ER doc in Massachusetts for a while. Then he became medical director at <a href="http://www.canyonranchdestinations.com/lenox/">Canyon Ranch in Lennox</a>, which explains a lot, because Canyon Ranch is a resort and spa catering to well-off executives with <a href="http://www.canyonranchdestinations.com/lenox/programs/executive-health-program/">wellness programs</a> (at only $5,575 for a four day stay or $4,355 for a two day stay) and <a href="http://www.canyonranchdestinations.com/lenox/programs/lenox-health-resort-weight-loss-program/">weight loss programs</a>. Hyman’s evolution into an “integrative medicine” practitioner and the foremost practitioner of “functional medicine” is making a lot more sense in light of this revelation (to me, at least). This story also tells me a lot:</p> <blockquote><p> Right after I started at Canyon Ranch, I became quite ill. I had chronic fatigue syndrome. My whole system broke down: My muscle enzymes were elevated with creatine phosphokinase levels over 600. I had a positive anti-nuclear antibody, a low white blood cell count, elevated liver function tests, and severe cognitive dysfunction. I had myalgia, weakness, rashes, sores on my tongue, and severe diarrhea for years. My whole system just collapsed. I went from physician to physician, to Harvard and Columbia, and more. But I got no answers other than to take antidepressants or sleeping pills.</p> <p>I began to search for other ways to understand what was happening. I knew it wasn't in my head. I finally discovered that after living in China for a year I had gotten mercury poisoning.</p> <p>I learned through this process that there was a whole new field of thinking that had a systems-biology view of medicine. It addressed the root causes of disease—not just symptoms but also etiology. It's medicine by cause, not just symptoms. It's medicine by understanding mechanisms, not just geography, or where the symptom or pathology exists. It was a whole new operating system for understanding how to diagnose and treat chronic disease.</p> <p>So I started practicing functional medicine at Canyon Ranch and healing myself. I started seeing extraordinary results with patients and myself. I joined the faculty and eventually became the chairman of the board of the Institute for Functional Medicine, which trains physicians and other healthcare providers in functional medicine, a powerful systems-based model that takes our observations of the root causes of disease and our biological networks, and integrates them into a framework for clinical application. </p></blockquote> <p>Systems biology. You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you think it means. Hyman has already shown that his understanding of systems biology is what I would consider <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/11/09/mark-hyman-mangling-cancer-research/">less than optimal</a>. Particularly annoying is how Hyman seems to think that, before functional medicine, no one ever thought of cancer as a systemic disease or wondered about the microenvironment of the tissues in which cancers form and grow. He is also very sloppy about citing studies to support his point of view.</p> <p>Be that as it may, Hyman had some sort of mysterious illness that may or may not have been fibromyalgia, and it changed him, activating a latent tendency towards embracing pseudomedicine. Obviously that tendency was already there, or he probably wouldn’t have taken the position of medical director of a spa for executives. Characteristic of functional medicine is a rather large dollop of arrogance, as though functional medicine were something amazingly new and different that we hidebound physicians could never have thought of and only enlightened innovators like Dr. Hyman can appreciate. It’s utter nonsense, of course, but get a load of <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/869372">Part 2</a> of the interview if you want to see more annoying stuff. Dr. Bhargava basically launches a really slow pitch softball question with a huge high arc right over the plate. Not surprisingly, Hyman easily hits it deep. What’s really irritating is how he does that. As usual, he denigrates conventional medicine as not looking at the whole picture and, in contrast, paints functional medicine as considering things that conventional medicine fail to consider. Of course, there’s a reason why evidence-based medicine doesn’t do what functional medicine does; it’s because it’s not evidence-based. None of this stops Hyman, of course:</p> <blockquote><p> But in conventional thinking, the end stop is the differential diagnosis, which we all learned in medical school. That's usually the end of our thinking. Once we've made the differential diagnosis and we have the diagnosis, we know what to do. We pick up the Washington Manual of Medical Therapeutics for residents. We have the standard of care. It's not that complicated. Once you make the diagnosis, you know what the treatment is, right?</p> <p>In functional medicine, the diagnosis is the place where we start to think. It's not the end of our thinking. In traditional medicine, it's the naming and blaming game. We name the disease and blame the name for the problem, and then we tame it with a drug. Let's take depression, for example. Someone comes in, and they're hopeless and helpless. They're sad. They have no interest in life. They have no appetite. They're not sleeping. They have thoughts of suicide. You say, "I know what's wrong with you. You have depression." Depression isn't the cause of those symptoms. It's the name of those symptoms. Then, we ask, "What's the cause of those symptoms?" </p></blockquote> <p>Arrgh!</p> <p>Hyman no more knows the cause of depression any better than his portrait of conventional medicine’s understanding. Don’t believe me? See what he says next:</p> <blockquote><p> Well, there may be dozens of causes of depression, right? It could be psychosocial trauma, early life experiences, or Hashimoto thyroiditis, an autoimmune disease that leads to low thyroid function and is caused by eating gluten, which creates an autoimmune thyroid disease. The depression could be because you have been taking a proton-pump inhibitor for 10 years and you have vitamin B12 deficiency, or because you live in the Northeast and you have vitamin D deficiency, or because you have taken antibiotics that altered your gut flora, or because you love sushi and you're eating sushi all the time and you have mercury poisoning, or maybe you hate fish and have omega-3 fatty acid deficiency, or maybe you're insulin resistant and love cinnamon buns and have prediabetes. All of those can cause depression. So it's a methodology for sorting through the root causes and the things that are driving it and then addressing those. </p></blockquote> <p>Wait, what? Hyman is basically saying that conventional doctors who treat depression, like primary care doctors and psychiatrists, don’t look at thyroid function and psychosocial trauma. (Hint: They do.) In fact, what Dr. Hyman is doing is touting how functional medicine does what medicine does. Basically, he’s constructing a differential diagnosis. Let’s say a patient comes into your office with symptoms of depression. You evaluate him, and he fits the DSM-V criteria for depression. Now what? You have to see if this patient has any <a href="http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression">known causes of depression</a>, such as, yes, thyroid disease, psychosocial trauma, genetics, nutritional deficiencies, endocrine disorders, lupus, and several others. Unfortunately, Hyman doesn’t stop there. Functional medicine considers all the known science-based causes of depression and then adds pseudoscience, such as the “mercury poisoning” from sushi, plus the usual panoply of lab abnormalities from the extensive lab panels that functional medicine demands. The other problem is that, while a lot of conditions are associated with depression, the causative relationship is not always clear. For instance, diabetes and prediabetes are indeed associated with depression, with diabetics being at a higher risk of depression, but that doesn’t mean that diabetes necessarily causes depression. Basically, Hyman exhibits a whole lot of hubris by asserting that functional medicine does so much better than conventional medicine in examining the causes of depression.</p> <p>It’s a hubris that extends into <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/869373#vp_1">Part 3</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> I studied Chinese in medical school and learned about Chinese traditional healing systems. I've had much acupuncture in my life. In fact, it cured me of chronic pain that I had from back surgery. I do use other alternative modalities all the time as an adjunct to support my health.</p> <p>But, when you use other modalities, how do you use them? When do you use the modalities? What is the diagnostic map? If you have migraines and you go to a group of integrative medicine doctors, one might say that you have a dosha imbalance, that maybe your vata/pitta is out of balance. An acupuncturist might say that your kidney chi is not right. The psychologist is going to say that maybe you're stressed and you should get therapy. The biofeedback person will say you need biofeedback. The herbalist is going to tell you to take feverfew.</p> <p>In functional medicine, we don't do that. We ask, "Why are you having a migraine? What's the cause of your migraine?" If the cause of your migraine is that you're eating gluten, all these modalities are not going to help. We have a simple rule: If you're standing on a tack, it takes a lot of aspirin to feel better. You need to take out the tack. If you're standing on two tacks, taking one out isn't going to make you 50% better. You need to get rid of all the causes. </p></blockquote> <p>Give me a friggin’ break. This is nothing but more hubris. Basically, what functional medicine really does is to run every lab test under the sun and try to correct abnormal values. This is what Hyman refers to elsewhere in his interview as “the original precision medicine,” an assertion that made me want to head to our liquor cabinet and open up a bottle of scotch. Fortunately, I resisted. It was, after all, a work night when I wrote this. Otherwise, I might have had a more violent reaction to this:</p> <blockquote><p> I think the concept of precision medicine is fantastic. It is in alignment with functional medicine. In fact, functional medicine is the first application of precision medicine.</p> <p>I get concerned about this getting coopted by pharma as being about pharmacogenomics. Precision medicine is how we match the drugs to the person. We know that if you have a 2C19 polymorphism, then maybe you should be adjusting your warfarin differently. Fertility doctors will check methylated SNPs, MTHFR. If you have a methylated SNP, you might need methylated folate or a higher dose. These are more personalized drug therapies as opposed to a holistic systems approach.</p> <p>I think we have to be careful with it. It's really looking at more of a Leroy Hood model in systems biology, what he calls P4 medicine: personalized, preventive, predictive, and participatory. That's essentially what we do in functional medicine. </p></blockquote> <p>I do so find a lot of amusement in how Hyman loves to invoke systems biology without having the slightest clue what systems biology actually is or entails. Oh, and I have observed Leroy Hood for many years. Mark Hyman is no Leroy Hood. he’s also rather obvious:</p> <blockquote><p> <strong>Dr Bhargava:</strong> Now I'm going to take the lens of the skeptics. You have probably seen their websites.</p> <p><strong>Dr Hyman:</strong> I've seen them all. Have you looked at their credentials? They're usually shills for pharma. I'm saying things that are not popular. </p></blockquote> <p>Ah, yes. <a href="http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/08/pharma-shill-gambit.html">The pharma shill gambit</a>. If there’s one thing I know, it’s this. Whenever someone tries to dismiss his critics as “pharma shills,” I know that that person has nothing else. The same is true here. Notice how Hyman just dismisses his critics as “pharma shills.” There are no details. There’s no actual evidence presented that any of them are, in fact, in the pay of big pharma. He just seems to think that saying “pharma shill” is enough. To his incredible shame, Dr Bhargava lets Hyman’s use of the “pharma shill gambit” pass unchallenged. Pathetic. Even if Dr. Bhargava were sympathetic to the quackery that Hyman was laying down, it’s an utter, shameful failure in his role as medical editor for Medscape and WebMD to have allowed Hyman to make such statements completely unchallenged.</p> <p>What this interview tells me, more than anything else, is that the medical editor of Medscape and WebMD is not only clueless about what “functional medicine” is but that he is more than willing to let someone like Dr. Hyman spout self-aggrandizing pseudoscientific bullshit unchallenged. That is the deficiency among those of us who are ostensibly defending evidence- and science-based medicine. We are not willing to call quackery when we see it. Quacks who can talk the talk and seem to be practicing evidence-based medicine are the beneficiaries of this reluctance.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Fri, 10/14/2016 - 00:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/autism" hreflang="en">autism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/functional-medicine" hreflang="en">functional medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/leroy-hood" hreflang="en">Leroy Hood</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mark-hyman" hreflang="en">Mark Hyman</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quakademic-medicine" hreflang="en">quakademic medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/systems-biology" hreflang="en">systems biology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345420" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476419969"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I finally discovered that after living in China for a year I had gotten mercury poisoning</i></p> <p>Yes, Mark, but that's just the <b>symptom</b>. What was the <i>real cause</i> of getting mercury poisoning?</p> <p>A billion people live in China without getting mercury poisoning. I cannot help wondering what is so special about this snowflake that made him so uniquely sensitive to the toxic environment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345420&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="K-lt9xDLoq6ezC_eRqq89s8vZWSRMNTtB6Suldk_WKU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345420">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345421" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476421226"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>FWIW, I have not been able to stand reading anything on Medscape for a few years now. The quality of articles there is brutally poor, and it all seems very agenda-driven. To what end, I'm not sure, but too often they start with a conclusion and fill in the rest of the story to match.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345421&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7fH-MqAQl5OAJImP-gFlvgilbJ4qCEC3qbvKhpKg0Yk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dr. Chim Richalds (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345421">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345422" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476423645"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Functional medicine seeks to improve the quality of life for people" Yes, the people who practice it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345422&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vWrNxvRLHJCC8IxOm0br6p1u1Q28oi_SoteABXJXUdY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Edward (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345422">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345423" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476426292"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Never under-estimate the power of click-bait articles to help raise advertising funds. Sucks that Medscape is following that trend, but it is happening on most sites.</p> <p>I'm still waiting to see what Doc Hymen does that is so different from any real doctor. You see doctor with problem, doctor runs tests to figure out what the problem is, doctor prescribes fix for problem, you go home healthier if not happier. Doc Hymen just figures he has to pad his bill a lot with irrelevancies. My issue is with the too human frailties arising in doctor's that causes some to do a half-ass job of diagnosis, but that is irrelevant to this topic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345423&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fluR1TVR8QchNXlsQOL0DU6ApmCJToGf9tvyhjBhjyY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Anonymous Pseudonym (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345423">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345424" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476426755"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, Medscape. I ended up putting them into my Spam folder, because most of their articles are just click-bait. Very rarely have I gotten anything of interest from them any more.</p> <p>As for Dr Hyman: sorry, doc. When I'm depressed, I want a doctor who looks at the normal causes and treats me appropriately, not go running off looking for zebras in the underbrush and making me pay tons out of pocket.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345424&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="apN4KbAbKnyI_ct8avGRh3ofubSqe6ykTPuys77W3Mg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345424">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345425" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476432600"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>you’re eating sushi all the time and you have mercury poisoning</i> </p> <p>Sounds reasonable to me (if you live in Grassy Narrows). </p> <p>@ 1 herr doktor bimler</p> <p>Clearly Japan has a more serious mercury poisoning problem than we realized.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345425&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7c-DYDN9NFnr7cara7WmTqRIAXIKLtQbYEQ93P5Z2so"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345425">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345426" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476432980"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I like preceding functional medicine with an article about overdiagnosis. Functional medicine is overdiagnosis raised to a power.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345426&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9Xhg_takvxpUIALM_HWqUbV0QkOBn1JARdS5D1NAGSw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Juice Box (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345426">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1345429" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476436640"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yep. Now that you mention it, maybe I should have said that in my article. Maybe I will add it somewhere later... :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345429&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qvsn23dt3Y5l4oz0BtYB5PnewYnr2fzRqVtJzIHOazk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345429">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1345426#comment-1345426" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Juice Box (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345427" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476433728"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Pharma Shill? PHARMA SHILL??? Argh. Grifter Mark Hyman calling anyone a Pharma Shill is just rich. Nothing more than vile, disingenuous projection.</p> <p>He's one of the biggest affiliate marketing scammers out there. He's involved in a large network of incestuous cross-promoting scammers that includes Ty Bollinger with his uberscam "The Truth About Cancer," Mercola, Mike Adams' Natural News, HealthTalksOnline health "summits," Sayer Ji's GreenmedInfo, Frank Lipman, Life Extension, Dr Axe, Dr Mark Sircus, David Avocado Wolfe, Hay House, etc.</p> <p>These predators seem to have quite a lucrative scam going, promoting each other and paying/collecting commissions for doing so. For example, Ty Bollinger alone brags about having paid out over $8 MILLION in commissions for marketing his own brand of cancer quackery (and he's working on an antivax version now). </p> <p>It's a dishonest and underhanded system that amplifies every kind of snake oil there is, and their pervasive advertising ensures that it reaches more and more consumers/victims. </p> <p>It makes me sick to my stomach.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345427&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_Hng-eo4-xokbX8Z92S8wZhgxrcR4296m6Qs27VO9fs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">thenewme (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345427">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1345428" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476436594"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hyman's involved with Ty Bollinger, Joe Mercola, and Mike Adams, etc.? Do tell...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345428&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cLv3WX8VIvgYnlj6UleMyVHOQSh8_HWl2pvh82WE_eI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345428">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1345427#comment-1345427" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">thenewme (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345430" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476437319"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Did he mention the chemtrails?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345430&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ONP4PPafsvQ0N0W87AjGzzPKnaMO8QZwWoJizaKMc68"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Khan (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345430">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345431" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476437577"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't think the lab tests are what draw patients to functional medicine. I think it is the idea of "biochemical individuality". I feel like a lot of people who are drawn to woo and all of its affiliates have what I think of as "Special Snowflake Syndrome" where they truly believe that they are somehow SO different from everybody else, and need the most special attention because they are the most special people. I'm sure they would not describe themselves this way, but that is my impression of people who get into this stuff. They are also the people who believe they are so smart and special that they know more than an MD and are oh-so-certain that their MD just doesn't understand how very, very special they are. Give me a freaking break.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345431&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XI6Xt08jcjcb16QtHj829Ywyj6-FQCSjD9LjOXfHoQ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Missylulu (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345431">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345432" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476437828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@#1 herr doktor: I want to know how functional medicine cured his mercury poisoning. He makes a huge leap between the supposed cause of his symptoms and goes right into the functional medicine blather but he doesn't actually tell us how he got better . . . . or IF he got better.</p> <p>I am also a bit annoyed with what he has to say about migraines. Sure SOME people have food triggers. But to know that you have to keep a migraine diary.</p> <p>MY trigger is the weather. So what does he want me to do, move to the International Space Station? Even if NASA would allow it, that's a bit drastic. I'm still going to need Excedrin, and even then there are just some days (like the past three) where I just have to suffer.</p> <p>@#5 MI Dawn: some articles are OK. Some are even peer reviewed articles they republish. But oh yeah, there is so much woo and the quacks come out of the closet every time a USPSTF recommendation or a vaccine article is published. I blush with shame at some of the things my fellow nurses will say (assuming they are actual nurses, but unfortunately I know far too many RNs who buy into the BS).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345432&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qnj8sLcSwim3tZ6UyrjvfEQNzm5CBCu4__-yKES75gI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345432">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345433" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476437842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ugh, I now have some residual guilt about my comment. I feel bad characterizing an. Entire group of people that way, as I'm sure many people are simply duped by the incredinly convincing and entirely subversive fake medical jargon spouted by woo-peddlers. Lots of people are being taken advantage of which is heartbreaking, but there is no shortage of willfully ignorant f***s loafing about among the people who are truly being taken advantage of.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345433&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Iz4DkM-TveLbHqOFXKLDy96yJMQO06ufJh8kworEcgw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Missylulu (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345433">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345434" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476438389"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>They do lots of lab tests—lots of lab tests!—and act on them all</p></blockquote> <p>Sounds like cargo cult science to me. Richard Feynman had some choice words about it in his <a href="http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.htm">1974 commencement address at Caltech</a>. (The speech even includes some forms of quackery that RI readers will have heard of.) They are adopting the forms of science-based medicine, but it isn't making people well (beyond the placebo effect), any more than the simulated airfields of the post-WWII cargo cultists in the South Pacific attracted planes full of cargo.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345434&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="F-MOzWvz9zZbvFHErJX5DWbk74DUah8_Mz04Wu3oXbE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345434">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345435" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476438603"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Panacea</p> <blockquote><p>he doesn’t actually tell us how he got better</p> <p>For some reason, I am now picturing Hyman claiming he was changed into a newt.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345435&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AhGRbNg-ntQvFdox7U7ywKRnWtdGf-Ia8mmf1cMJOtY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345435">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345436" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476438680"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What caused his mercury poisoning? Almost certainly methylation of one or more of the genes for enzymes of the mitochondrial metal transporter (MMT) family. Obviously, this would cause accumulation of toxic metals in his mitochondria -- the powerhouses of the cell -- leading to his chronic fatigue syndrome.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345436&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_j16_mvIGpLvu0GhGuGRKC9tkAIiLDHR_KFu3daRFBI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345436">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345437" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476439059"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One of many examples: <a href="http://naturalmedicinesummit.com/">http://naturalmedicinesummit.com/</a><br /> This is just one of the many health "summits" and network affiliate gigs. Each of the "experts" joins the ring of cross promotion and promotes the hell out of it with their bogus blogs, tweets, FB posts, etc. IMO, it's why we're bombarded with stupid memes and scammy vapid nonsense in pretty pictures from eg. David Wolfe, Kristie Leong, Razi Berry, Naturopath News, etc. And advertising works. </p> <p>HealthTalksOnline is just one of them, but it's a very typical MLM-esque example of the Circle of Woo affiliate programs they all have: "Affiliates receive a unique link to promote our events to their fans and followers. There is no cost to be an affiliate.<br /> Promotion might include emails, blog posts, social media posts, radio shows, podcasts, news articles and more! When someone who clicked an affiliate’s link makes a purchase, we credit a commission to your affiliate account!"<br /> "An effective way to generate commissions and reach more people, is to register other affiliates! When someone makes a purchase from an affiliate that you registered, you will receive a bonus 10% commission on that sale."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345437&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VHvxPDKPdqMAD0gnXOAa2ubsPCUomFzvPWgixM7M48Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">thenewme (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345437">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345438" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476440992"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Could be mere coincidence, but see also Evolution of Medicine's (EOM) inner circle "Practice Accelerator" affiliate program, which happens to be celebrating a big launch this month, with promises to "pay affiliates a 33% commission on the Practice Accelerator Product, along with a 10% commission on any upsells during the launch."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345438&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mq1oqTQE6VndnxhkZs3ILDTN6LKzLk_MlnKEAjo-gpg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">thenewme (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345438">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345439" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476441680"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Hashimoto thyroiditis, an autoimmune disease that leads to low thyroid function and is caused by eating gluten"</p> <p>Listen, I am not, and will never be a doctor, but I do have Hashimotos, and I have never, in my 3 years if life had it attributed to gluten. Is thus actually the case? Cause it sounds fake and woo-y. </p> <p>I mean, yeah, his whole interview is just awful, completely awful, but this stuck out to me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345439&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="70AUW_rdM46irHwNqzYq6xu2VwbWfORom-NsdND0uqM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alu (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345439">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345440" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476441911"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"FM fetishizes “individuality” because it distinguishes FM as a brand from science-based medicine and, I suspect, because it makes FM practitioners feel good, like “total” doctors never at a loss for an explanation for a patient’s symptoms or clinical condition."</p> <p>Of course, mainstream clinics and practices also promote the idea that they alone see the patient as super-individual, a tactic used to bolster their income.</p> <p>Our local academic medical centers trumpets in its ads "there is no routine cancer", as though everyone else just leafs through the Washington Manual and plugs everyone into a single standard course of therapy.</p> <p>Hyman: "In traditional medicine, it’s the naming and blaming game. We name the disease and blame the name for the problem, and then we tame it with a drug."</p> <p>I'd argue that commonly in functional medicine and other brands of woo, it's name the disease (often erroneously) and then blame the patient for the problem. You ate the wrong things, exposed yourself to toxins, weren't optimistic/spiritual enough, and let Conventional Medicine ruin your system, thus it's your fault for being sick.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345440&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="STZ_7wSBHrmawpCBMDlinj9EiqiQV9ee5KbAyPor3OY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345440">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345441" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476443321"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It is odd to peruse <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/hansa-bhargava-752a463a">Dr. Bhargava's LinkedIn</a>. On the one hand, she wrote a nice article called <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-i-vaccinate-my-children-hansa-bhargava?trk=prof-post">"Why I Vaccinate My Children"</a>. But on the other hand, she's already listed this embarrassing interview with an anti-vaccine quack as an accomplishment:</p> <blockquote><p> In a more journalistic area, she has participated in a panel with and interviewed the First Lady, Michelle Obama as well as the current and past AAP Presidents, the CEO of UNICEF Caryl Stern and CDC director Dr Tom Frieden at CDC. Most recently she reviewed President Clinton's physician and Director of Functional Medicine for the Cleveland Clinic, Dr Mark Hyman. </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345441&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D_fdj8KXtTICHM0UWYmyJFTAn0esjtuRdKgWLxsSocg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345441">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345442" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476444570"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If Dr. Hyman really believed in treating patients as individuals, I would think he would stop peddling expensive supplements to strangers over the internet. Instead, he is selling detox supplements for nearly $300 to people he has never examined. It's hard to be more unethical than that.</p> <p><a href="http://store.drhyman.com/supplements-1/10-day-detox-combo-pack-wellness-essentials-healthy-balance-kit.html">http://store.drhyman.com/supplements-1/10-day-detox-combo-pack-wellness…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345442&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m94qXShRN4hFC6wv4SSdcp2kYSC4Dp0iA_nAAAys3eI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Yvette (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345442">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345443" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476444851"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I also wonder why doctors like Hyman spend time touting their genius in videos on talks. When do you think the last time he was responsible for a hospitalized patient? Or saw a patient in the ER? Or worked late at night? Or on a weekend?</p> <p>Real doctors test their medical skills daily with sick people. Quacks like Hyman make YouTube videos promoting their skills, but will *never* be in the hospital when people are really sick.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345443&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="prl1Ych191b7wIlg0F_PxDxYkkAkOOljQS0aqzKfeHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Yvette (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345443">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345444" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476445281"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yep, his supplements are affiliate network-marketed too, eg. PureFormulas (Metagenics, Thorne, etc)<br /> Affiliate Program Details:<br /> •Up to 8% Affiliate Payout (coupon based payout is 4%)<br /> •$65 Average Order Size<br /> •48% Conversion Rate<br /> •NOW MOBILE ENABLED!</p> <p>It's not about the patients or about health at all. It's ALL about the marketing potential.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345444&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9DfpGN1ln7zBu0Yr8RNHaezC29SSRkTU_LP28LVEeWg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">thenewme (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345444">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345445" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476447791"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Panacea, I present for your examination, the case of two RN's, who attended all of the same classes at Widner University's school of nursing, graduating in the same class.<br /> One is vehemently antivax, the other, our eldest daughter, evidence based and pro-vaccine.<br /> Go figure.</p> <p>As for the quack's cure from "mercury poisoning", somehow, I'm willing to bet his cure included removing gluten from his diet.<br /> That's one of the biggest flags around, when random disease X suddenly gets linked by the quack to gluten.<br /> As one who has friends who suffer from celiac disease, those kinds of claims make me grind my teeth.</p> <p>Now, to poll the house to see if anyone else is interested in an eggplant lasagna. I substitute out the ricotta cheese with tofu and parmesan cheese mixture. It picks up my home made sauce flavor, while not being gritty, it's creamy instead.<br /> Yeah, I'm also a reformed chef as well. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345445&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IWvrQvOwAFsNqvbmMZ9lKXvEPAISyL2ZeExEbiBKfz8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345445">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345446" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476448017"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>" I had... severe cognitive dysfunction" Dr MH</p> <p>I just HAD to!</p> <p>But more seriously, I can understand** why people who experience puzzling symptoms and don't get relief easily can fall into the woo- bucket.<br /> Even ( I venture) smart people like Hyman.</p> <p>Of course, why not take your situation and market the possibilities?</p> <p>** as someone who is suffering from an injury that has limited some of my activities and re-appears sporadically out of nowhere<br /> .<br /> Fortunately, I found myself intriguing additional work.<br /> I like to tell myself that perhaps the Universe was 'trying to tell me something' so that I would change or suchlike ( not that I really believe that).</p> <p>Not that I would market anything.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345446&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S9yqgT31F5SBQfYQEdwKKlRIkCB6e4r-wlHJIXw3hqI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345446">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345447" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476449489"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>" ...you're eating sushi all the time and you have mercury poisoning"</p> <p>If so, you're eating in the WRONG places.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345447&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c8k4-sU4_pz8t0zE3FmfSO-NOFwzKJsR5dXcFtjQs6I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345447">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345448" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476450246"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>affiliate network-marketed</p></blockquote> <p>This is the polite term for organizations that resemble Ponzi schemes but manage to stay within the letter of the law because they deliver an actual product. Amway is the most (in)famous example, but we have seen other supplement marketing outfits with this kind of corporate organization.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345448&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ck8Bw_BGihjEV9X9ryN5t2WePLJJtTUPMa_scZebjdU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345448">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345449" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476450439"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OT but</p> <p>it's late, there are already many comments, it's nearly the weekend,<br /> the Universe worked against my noting it yesterday and<br /> it's REALLY important that the minions know and celebrate-</p> <p>In other news....</p> <p>Bob Dylan ( aka Robert Allen Zimmerman, Shabtai Zisl ben Avraham, Lucky Wilbury etc)<br /> received the Nobel Prize for Literature.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345449&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GjloBk9C2k44kOyROV_OoX_Yzzu7_IQElEa3neBBsio"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345449">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345450" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476451130"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>A billion people live in China without getting mercury poisoning.</p></blockquote> <p>But a <i>gweilo</i> like Hyman probably didn't have a diet typical of ordinary Chinese people. He probably ate a good deal more meat, like rich Chinese do, and depending on the source of that meat, it's possible that he got mercury poisoning from it. But that leads to Panacea's question:</p> <blockquote><p>I want to know how functional medicine cured his mercury poisoning.</p></blockquote> <p>There is an SBM treatment for mercury poisoning. It's called chelation, and removing heavy metals from the body is exactly what it is designed to do. Yes, this is the same chelation therapy that so many woo-pushers recommend for removing "toxins" that aren't heavy metals (and for which the treatment is therefore ineffective). Of course Hyman wants to skip this part of the story, because it doesn't involve functional medicine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345450&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n3VQhVKbBTLGW8j_mIrS6Wm4NQfx-1pce_tBQFh4Hs0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345450">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345451" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476451693"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No, it's not a gluten-free diet which is used for mercury poisoning. It's chelation therapy. Ironically, his condition may have been caused by chelation therapy. If he was given chelation as preventative therapy against cardiovascular disease or other problems, he may have received too high a dose or for too long. Many chelation practitioners are far too aggressive -- they aren't satisfied until the provoked urine test shows levels at the extreme low end of the normal range. The standard chelator is EDTA, which is very non-specific against both toxic metals and essential micronutrients like vanadium and molybdenum. The body's response to a micronutrient deficiency is to down-regulate expression of the metal transporters, to conserve these essential micronutrients, by methylating the genes which code for the transporters, . The side-effect is accumulation of the toxic metals. So now, he's on the chelation treadmill -- he has to continue with chelation to bring down the toxic metals and take supplements of essential micronutrients to maintain their levels. It may take several years to taper off the chelation and slowly build back to a normal level of transporters. This is why chelation should be applied judiciously by a specialist who only does chelation, and never as a side-line to a chiropratic or naturopathic practice. It's the latter group who are giving chelation a bad name.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345451&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5re__91XnMDDPefWd1uxYHDfS5l7OW_slP5xaQYjwRo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345451">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345452" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476452000"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While I think there are popular bs diagnoses and overdiagnoses, there are also many complicated cases with multiple problems of missed diagnoses in classical medicine and nutrition that are difficult to unwind. Especially the further that you hit from a basic cause. </p> <p>The chronically ill may have shockingly overt symptoms of gross malnutrition that quickly go away on correction or repletion but have multiple potholes in their situation. Patients also wrestle with iatrogenic causes and injuries in medicine too, often unacknowledged unless bad enough for lawsuits to rain down <i>and succeed</i>.</p> <p>However inefficient naturopathy and FM may be, they can easily win if they make enough progress to relieve even some of the serious or chronic symptoms patients have that are unresolved. What I've seen<br /> 1. if they have serious GI deficits and problems, recognized and fixed?<br /> 2. if not, digestive aids and/or<br /> 3. supplements like for an uncorrected gastritis or sprue or even more ...</p> <p>When even one bad symptom, or their worst symptoms, go away after some rough years, who are patients going to listen to after that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345452&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mw6oFkcvEs2LKqwphpf8Bi9vmazgXgXGSsvdgixVpMg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prn (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345452">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345453" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476452236"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hyman's employer, Canyon Ranch, rang a bell for me. Sure enough, Hyman has been a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/21/bill-and-hillary-clinton-embrace-functional-medicine/">previous recipient</a> of Orac's Respectful Insolence. Not surprisingly for somebody who operates in the Berkshires (in Massachusetts close to the New York border), Hyman attracts a bunch of clients from the New York City area--Bill Clinton, in the specific case of the earlier post.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345453&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="T22sJicKOUNnblPqjKdDOsVbNptplFpAeA2lSd59ReY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345453">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345454" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476461445"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Only slightly OT:<br /> In college I found a copy of the Canyon Ranch Cookbook. Beautiful, glossy, heavy, it must have cost $60, so I have no idea what it was doing in a dorm lounge.</p> <p>I've never seen a cookbook with so many pictures and so little food. A smoothie might have a dozen ingredients, (most of which would clash on the palate) and then a note "to be consumed after morning yoga, and will suffice for the rest of the day", or some such nonsense.<br /> After a while I was surprised that there wasn't a recipe for a single cabbage leaf, boiled. </p> <p>So yeah, pretty short straight line from that kind of nonsense to total quackery.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345454&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CyRedZPnICua0b2TfXdabV3Daf65rmHedpGz6kIArPk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345454">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345455" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476463947"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Like Hyman, WebMD and Medscape started out well, but have since become so deteriorated by greed and ignorance that I warn against them. </p> <p>Should Hilary Clinton become President, her treatment by the likes of Hyman would in my opinion constitute a threat to national security. Come to think about it, quackery in any form is already a threat to national security, but then so is stupidity.</p> <p>@Denice Walter #29: The day that Bob Dylan receives the Nobel Prize for literature will be the day when Donald Trump runs for President. Seriously! Did someone put stupid in the drinking water? Google Bob Dylan, Plagiarism to see what I mean. If anyone else in the music world should have been chosen for the Prize, it would be Joni Mitchell, who years ago told me about Dylan's ripoffs. As you will see, Joni and other experts have long since gone public about that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345455&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dA_DZ5yat8RTRbbkmNbQB9ruM9fmHOdcYzG04rU9sBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345455">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345456" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476465276"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> A smoothie might have a dozen ingredients, (most of which would clash on the palate) and then a note “to be consumed after morning yoga, and will suffice for the rest of the day”, or some such nonsense.</p></blockquote> <p>I went to college with a guy who was all into raw foods and "super foods" (hippie college) who once did part of one of his class projects on helping somebody quit smoking - by feeding her smoothies with tens of (expensive) ingredients. Ridiculous.</p> <p>My mom does like smoothies; I'd rather go with cereal or eggs for breakfast, but she can drink them on the way to work.</p> <p>And since we're talking about food, I'm currently caramelizing onions for a bleu cheese, pear and onion pizza. (Try it, you'll like it.) And have made a chocolate raspberry sheet cake.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345456&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GGgySaaMLJ4iG42Lcc9fCBc5jQyQXDXpFc7WXPAOtgU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345456">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345457" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476466655"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Within the article and associated comments is more than enough evidence to justify outlawing advertising by physicians, pharmaceutical companies, and healthcare facilities alike. The untold millions of dollars spent by the healthcare industry on advertising every year would be better allocated to research and treatment. A patient who is sick will find his way to the hospitals. Hospitals shouldn't be hanging out their shingle and enriching marketing executives at the expense of patients.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345457&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="plAtytRrdsJKkugZo1hc3AA3hwpC4fVBOw9cbjG942s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rourke Decker (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345457">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345458" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476466986"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Should Hilary Clinton become President, her treatment by the likes of Hyman would in my opinion constitute a threat to national security. Come to think about it, quackery in any form is already a threat to national security, but then so is stupidity.</i></p> <p>Hyman has undoubtedly battened onto Bill Clinton, and may indeed be advising Sec. Clinton... but other than Hyman's own fulsome claims to a NYT life-style columnist, is there any evidence that she is *listening* to that advice, or even aware of it?<br /> It is not as if Hyman is particularly reliable as a source about his own wonderfulness, and the NYT puff-piece was notably deficient in corroboration.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345458&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BrSZDo6_btLhAqb9BD8VfXo-E9as-5ShkvDYdRpkYG8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345458">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345459" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476467179"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's rather a moot point, once POTUS, medical treatment is performed by the DoD.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345459&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zXNwy3r1K0v9jrKJr8xI_GlIj_UQk8YOBvxqWQPq7bo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345459">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1345458#comment-1345458" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345460" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476471902"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wzrd, if Nancy Reagan can get astrologers in the White House, then quacks can treat the President.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345460&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="t_avU6aDxwz8w-5FjJEaVj2oi7kjdjOEmGIGKMU6NZk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345460">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345464" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476481785"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Panacea, I seriously doubt that the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda will grant him admitting privileges or honor his prescriptions.<br /> So, who is permitted access to the White House vs actually treating the POTUS tend to be a wee bit different things. For that matter, he likely couldn't acquire a Yankee White clearance to access the POTUS. That one's worse than acquiring a Q clearance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345464&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dluaR73RsQHQiwBKWOLt1wEMg9zm9DTuBA6k_1VnbZE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345464">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1345460#comment-1345460" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345461" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476472160"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"Mrs. Clinton's current medications include Armour Thyroid..."</p> <p>Armour Thyroid is a brand name for natural desiccated thyroid (NDT) -- a prescription thyroid hormone replacement medication made from the dried thyroid gland of pigs.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://www.verywell.com/hillary-clinton-thyroid-condition-3233019">https://www.verywell.com/hillary-clinton-thyroid-condition-3233019</a> </p> <p>So. Not exactly the 'standard of care', levothyroxine sodium.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345461&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kEB8bOp2VNOl6Naw4Z4TH0ChRsjckeuzEiENcscfXyo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sullenbode (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345461">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345462" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476479721"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dochniak gotta latex<br /> Cocos gotta x-ray<br /> At least Gilly splits his time between getting high and Clinton's health. Two loons for the price of one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345462&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X94IevlG1--l6BqU8g4Ej_Av5Yp8p6IwN8FjgmicK2A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345462">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345463" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476480104"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Left a comment asking why Medscape did a puff-piece on a con artist. Currently it is in moderation though I have had a Medscape account for many years. Will probably close the account though considering how sloppy so many articles are, and no matter how bad there are always at least a few favorable comments on even the most egregious nonsense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345463&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AjrDCR1Ixp8HsOxIZzWSOvfyvlEY56AiqZCrc5hmbwQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Pyron (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345463">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345465" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476482301"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> For that matter, he likely couldn’t acquire a Yankee White clearance to access the POTUS. </p></blockquote> <p>No. If POTUS says 'I want to see...', then they come in. Sure, they will have to walk thru the metal detectors, but that's about it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345465&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I3jOhk-cobwhV3nIzp2xxjrVZ82sx9zfB_Uj0EKuuPg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345465">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345466" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476486209"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dear friends,<br /> The purpose of this message is solely to inform you that all the scientific comments that I make in response to the criticism against my interpretation of the Overdiagnosis paper are removed by Orac, although they are on topic.<br /> Then, you can judge whether you can have disinterested information in this blog.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345466&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bwIlxoA8a2MQ2uliicNxuyp2h-dXMTP1JqNuHsFRjD8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345466">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1345467" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476519777"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It doesn't matter if your blather is "on topic." Our friend with the idea that latex in vaccines causes autism can argue that his nonsense is "on topic" whenever we discuss vaccines and autism, but it's still just as annoying and just as likely to hijack a thread way off the rails. You have proven every bit as persistent and annoying in your efforts to hijack every thread about mammography and overdiagnosis as he, and I'm, quite simply, tired of it. I will tolerate it no more.</p> <p>Again, you were warned, and, as I predicted, you just couldn't help yourself. We've been down this road many times. You have this <em>idée fixe</em> that radiation from mammography causes so much breast cancer that it can completely account for the increased number of diagnoses of DCIS and early stage breast cancer observed with the onset of mammographic screening. It cannot, as the estimated increase is far too small.</p> <p>So you will now remain in comment purgatory indefinitely, and I don't really care if you think it's unfair of me or not. I simply will not have you so persistently hijacking comment threads, and if you don't like that, you can always go elsewhere, write your own blog, or rant about how close minded, unfair, unscientific, and nasty you think I am wherever you like. In the meantime I will release our friend with the latex obsession from comment purgatory until such a time as he can't help himself (and I know that time will come, probably sooner rather than later) and starts commenting about latex and autism again. We should take bets on how long he can manage to stay on the straight and narrow.</p> <p>I've always had a very light touch moderating comments, to the point where I've often allowed trolls to roam free far longer than I perhaps should have and longtime regular commenters, whom I value deeply, became fed up enough to complain. After nearly 12 years of having a very "hands off" moderation policy, I am currently rethinking my policy based on occurrences at my not-so-super-secret other blog and the relentless stream of Fendelsworth sock puppets both here and at the not-so-super-secret other blog. I've already become a lot more proactive about banning suspected sock puppets. Before, I would wait until I could absolutely prove it was a sock. I no longer wait that long. You can thank Fendelsworth for that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345467&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p7XfW-82bwsepwO8iV-0Lg1Ugtnhmn5Z6O67Oxtsn2I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345467">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345468" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476526420"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gluten is a constant danger! I highly recommend Clara Gluten-Free Water <a href="https://claraglutenfreewater.com/">https://claraglutenfreewater.com/</a> which may not do your guts much good but will help cure swollen wallet syndrome.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345468&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jgexoZOiTzcLlsN9XAJGv7pCs244MZdeTmEpVSIK9IU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345468">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345469" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476528384"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Bob Dylan ( aka Robert Allen Zimmerman, Shabtai Zisl ben Avraham, Lucky Wilbury etc)<br /> received the Nobel Prize for Literature.</p></blockquote> <p>That's not very good, is it? It should have been Leonard Cohen.</p> <blockquote><p>“Then Dylan says to me, ‘As far as I’m concerned, Leonard, you’re Number 1. I’m Number Zero.’ Meaning, as I understood it at the time—and I was not ready to dispute it—that his work was beyond measure and my work was pretty good.”...</p> <p>Dylan defended Cohen against the familiar critical reproach that his is music to slit your wrists by. He compared him to the Russian Jewish immigrant who wrote “Easter Parade.” “I see no disenchantment in Leonard’s lyrics at all,” Dylan said.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/17/leonard-cohen-makes-it-darker">http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/17/leonard-cohen-makes-it-dar…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345469&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MEV-n39eydF6ADrrs0G0iT5WykciekRKvgkXfvWPJh0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345469">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345470" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476532561"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@jrkrideau (#49),</p> <p>Clara's Gluten-free Water says, "Clara’s patented mixture of water and minerals is guaranteed gluten and additive-free while maintaining refreshing taste and comes in 100% recycled plastic bottles".</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Patenting a mixture of water and minerals....no way.</p> <p>I couldn't find such a patent in the USPTO website.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345470&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JP3zw9ruBidhpGSFxDx39QTxQc3tg6dXVfbAGrpeJpU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345470">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345471" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476543323"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am shocked - shocked! - that Gilbert is an anti-Semitic sh!tweasel.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345471&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M2SWzLdMUz0-cv8Me8C5lhmmop0r-gakm1EP3OlmvBk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345471">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345472" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476547475"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p># 51 Michael J. Dochniak</p> <p>Well I don't believe them either but does the USPTO website cover patents worldwide? </p> <p> Clara is not a US company. It claims to be headquartered in Toronto.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345472&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zv8ziSaXFfXhhrba7NdlaFAXmPGXsBJjezAx_BFjpLc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345472">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345473" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476549489"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oy, oy, oy, JP; I beg your pardon???</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345473&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DA40yGf-WYhsgy3DYMTknEYBjxVFXnT2UqK9pxQSZIE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345473">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345474" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476549763"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm an anti-Semetic sh!tweasel for quoting a reference to this guy?</p> <blockquote><p>Irving Berlin (born Israel Isidore Baline; May 11, 1888 – September 22, 1989) was an American composer and lyricist, widely considered one of the greatest songwriters in American history... Born in Imperial Russia, Berlin arrived in the United States at the age of five.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Berlin">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Berlin</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345474&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qSLf2nBrPb3fMvPthhberMZNAiA9YOvGPyjv_2Q2fpE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345474">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345475" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476555213"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I will confess that I rarely make it past the first sentence of Gilbert's comments.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345475&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2_0P7lmZoBok3LZKA6Z2LjlsMGmyLYZ0uCATi0hXcLo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345475">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345476" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476556190"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would give Gilbert a conditional pass on this one.</p> <p>Preferring one Jewish poet songwriter to another is hardly anti Semitic.</p> <p>I like Leonard Cohen also, but would give Bob Dylan the edge for overall influence, variety of material and long term productivity.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345476&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_-lyVdr1gRTKNxX8JyjZkHd0LKkYRJ3mBkXg7x-FcRw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345476">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345477" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476557468"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would actually vote Leonard Cohen over Dylan, except for that horrible Phil Spector phase. Luckily he came back around with "Ten Songs" and later works.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345477&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P37uTbZenKH4ZgasJDbptr7f9MUnMIFlsJ_guY4Lot8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345477">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345478" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476558750"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I do realize that "I'm Your Man" is typically regarded as the comeback album, but I could never really dig it<br /> I am a sucker for his "Zen" album "Dear Heather," though, which came out just before I started college.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345478&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8zV59sV_C-vVE8If8crMCzfT4AwPUMIlnUAMkV_atTU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345478">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345479" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476563998"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks for the tips , JP.</p> <p>I also liked his voicing of Jungle Line by Joni Mitchell on Herbie Hancock album of her songs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345479&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XS36xoD239Qpx4NYO_-XKB6Tic3cNUmD2Zh8z-LiC0M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345479">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345480" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476564385"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If I were to pick a Leonard Cohen song that best fits my mood at the moment, it'd be <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNTFqSaFwyo">this one.</a></p> <p>From my favorite album - Songs of Love and Hate.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345480&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PAhaNjM4G__zHSNK6lfXE7fpc8yV-fD5OI8IrcANaYU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345480">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345481" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476580188"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks, JP</p> <p>I've had some down moments, but know you've been through far worse. I hope you get better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345481&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7Mxl2B1MflEqHFS3s9DCM0Bms2HE7oiGqwrvfMaUGBU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345481">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345482" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476581239"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ah, I'll be fine, what withy therapist upping my appointments to twice a week and me really, really not wanting to end up in the hospital again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345482&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-KNWvjagCHKCoKfEpSsgaKq2ILKkjseR1WvHispJXp8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345482">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345483" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476591156"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>If I were to pick a Leonard Cohen song</i></p> <p>I alternate between 'Teachers' and 'Who by Fire'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345483&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-xdR-zciVNfq3nWRiBVLwXgi6zaGYhdv0rgv-p3JmQ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345483">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345484" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476610349"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From Medscape and quackery to Dylan then to anti-Semitism, we were not far from Godwin's law. Fortunately, the moderator of this thread is here to avoid derailment ;-).</p> <p>@HDB<br /> My favorites are So long Marianne, Famous Blue Raincoat, Chelsea Hotel #2, and Hallelujah (in John Cale version)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345484&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HyK6jq5rWJJsgAcAtWhJdjGhEQWBoO8QlxL3WqDK2eY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345484">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345485" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476616561"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've listened to Lenny a lot more in my lifetime, but if a pop musician deserves a Nobel for the first time, it should be Dylan, or maybe Moe Tucker and John Cale (but they were influenced by Dylan, just like Lenny).</p> <p>If we're in Lenny-worship mode, my favorite is 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. But I swear that song can't hold a candle to 'Hard Rain'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345485&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QmT4-xSqzsP9ZoGPkU_xp20YA9SvFKjv24T5jeRvbpg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">RJ (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345485">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345486" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476619885"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lighthorse:</p> <p>Be that as it may, I don't care, I love him.</p> <p>And YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH LOVE, MAN.</p> <p>My father was an early fan and turned me on to Bob very long ago. So he's been a part of my life forever.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345486&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vYX8DcdIPZ8jx8qvdeytRcqeZIDOULSc073wVHv5MpI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345486">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345487" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476619971"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>'Famous Blue Raincoat' is one of my favorites too. My friend Olga and I couldn't believe that we didn't notice it was in amphibracs until grad school.</p> <p>In any case, I'm sure Mr. Cohen is gracious enough that he would congratulate Dylan on the Nobel. I imagine Phillip Roth, on the other hand, is p!!!!!!!ssed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345487&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E_Y_7pPydsqWpVB6vpUQFOhhNioN0XIWbalGH5xNUA4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345487">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345488" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476620795"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Daniel Corcos;</p> <p>" From Medscape to..... anti-Semitism"</p> <p>We, as loyal Oracian minions, know how to derail threads in artful and informative ways. </p> <p>You will note that my original OT was careful to state that it was INDEED OT and was meant to inform said minions of this very earth shattering fact LATE on a FRIDAY when there were already MANY comments in the bin<br /> and AFTER ALL<br /> quackery, Dylan and anti-Semitism are important in both universes- Orac's and the Big One.</p> <p>Secondly, RI is a social place where minions come to share news, commiserate, interact hilariously and encourage each other in our daily lives.</p> <p>Others ask "Why?" I ask " Why not?"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345488&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SRyQbgWm7T1lX83e3rxWu9bafSG9K9W_TJ6rf_D_xVk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345488">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345489" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476621493"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi JP:</p> <p>I'm glad to read your words and learn that your therapist is increasing your sessions.</p> <p>I'm sure that many- if not most- readers here would assure you that you contribute greatly because you are intelligent, artistic unique and sensitive to the oddness of reality in all of its shifting vicissitudes</p> <p> I often quote you to one of my crea.. GENTLEMEN who thinks that you are quite the bomb ( in the 1990s, good sense of the idiom).</p> <p>Remember that internal processes take a long time to work. You have to wait and then wait some more. I'm still recovering/ healing my injury and re-adjusting my activities accordingly.</p> <p>Anyone who can come up with the phrase " Pumpkin spice Putin" is always high on my list of greatest hits.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345489&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bJT0ew2FoskMhf0gIIqF9O3HQ-we9FJzE6LJrWGjmoM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345489">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345490" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476624396"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ herr doktor bimler (#39):</p> <p>Right.<br /> When she had pneumonia, her regular doc gave her high dose / powerful antibiotics for 10 days IIRC<br /> and that would probably not be Hyman's choice ( unless supplemented with loads of prebiotics and probiotics and sauerkraut and/or miso).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345490&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ATSzarDIHQhmJoF-_nxAAXESU4LIeb02pKY61oD7a4s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345490">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345491" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476627472"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good save, Denice. ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345491&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LY34CyQpOb05JK9utkMr5iuntqFInDsHOeXJ9SS_dE4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345491">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345492" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476627666"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I imagine Phillip Roth, on the other hand, is p!!!!!!!ssed.</p></blockquote> <p>I'm none too pleased that he failed me the year I had him in the local deadpool, either, for that matter.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345492&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y9PsOf17sBTfUXLUjpSU7reQ79O42BGddHld38CTZR4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345492">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345493" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476628504"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gluten for Hashimotos? I am currently getting worked over because the doctor noticed my thyroid is big. Cancer has been ruled out, but thinking might be Hashimoto's because my great grandma and grandma had to have theirs removed. I don't really eat all that much bread (not a gluten free diet thing, just personal preference)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345493&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hDFB2TnmkyUar6moxXBW6vsvG8r73selC2P-gWfTOPY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sarah (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345493">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345494" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476645989"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’m glad to read your words and learn that your therapist is increasing your sessions.</p></blockquote> <p>What can I say, I make people nervous. Hell, I was meeting with my <i>shrink</i> once a week in Michigan for quite a while. He still calls and emails; I think he worries that I'm going to walk off and hang myself in the woods in short order or something. I try to reassure him. Good man; good doctor.</p> <p>(My fingers are almost numb from a couple of hours sitting on the back deck in the cold, rainy, PNW weather, listening to Leonard Cohen and cuddling with the cat, who mostly lives outside by a certain person's dictate...)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345494&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HIZMRj8F3vW4aAAZlOyY_7lPMiTdi0ZRCoQqR0RWJXs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345494">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345495" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476709450"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP:</p> <p>You sometimes make ME nervous.<br /> Which is quite a feat.<br /> I do hope that you can get through this block of time when all seems bleak and disconnected perhaps.<br /> Think of it this way:<br /> there is a cat and Leonard Cohen.</p> <p>Of course the Pollyanna-ish amongst us may say that this is a Time of Preparation for Better Days or suchlike or that you're like a Chrysalis/ Bud about to transform itself after a period of darkness into Something Wonderful.</p> <p>I don't necessarily buy that because I know that sometimes life just goes on and on in a most wearing fashion and that not all buds blossom or plans come to fruition.</p> <p>Sometimes we just sit and wait.</p> <p>Sometimes we are not thrilled about anything at all.</p> <p>Sometimes we observe and go through emotional turmoil and questioning that leads to nowhere<br /> BUT at least we're still here.</p> <p>Over the past several months I've changed my life . One of the worst things was having trouble driving with a clutch because it hurt my leg. I am frugal enough to not have gone out and bought another car- and I do love the car. NOW I am quite thrilled over the fact that I have conquered the clutch and can drive myself around to various appointments. I am doing additional Interesting and Important literary work for Somebody I Know ( Not Me).</p> <p>Like sailors on the Main of Old we may get stranded in the Doldrums and there's not much that we can do about getting back into the drift and flow of obvious currents that lead to Places we want to be.</p> <p>I try to find things that I like and indulge myself as much as I reasonably can. No asceticism here.</p> <p>So good luck. I say that with great feeling for you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345495&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y0VIVIdAQAYTZo9yJbXRV_tJlrnAa2WVBUAqy7PABXs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345495">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345496" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476714787"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Both due to massive distraction, which drew management and hence, HR attention and a massive error upon hiring, both on my part and corporate (corporate split delayed letting me know that I had converted from contract to hire and my own "cleverness" creating a problem that needs to be resolved soon), I've got HR hot on my heels.<br /> Both due to my own wife's condition, which they learned of last week, a little of my own condition and the legal issues originating from delayed notification of hire (double paychecks that went unnoticed, as paper checks went uncollected and bank accounts went unchecked, I was busy and wife doesn't bother with online money).</p> <p>Add in stressors of dad dying for five years that I gave up a very lucrative job to care for him, paying Wells Fargo for a number of years after, only to have them reject assumption of the mortgage, initiation of foreclosure on that family home, with a hell of a lot of our own property enclosed, a dispute with the township ("we do what we want to do" and closure of the home via condemnation signs), restriction of access to our former home of five years (what a wonderful way to welcome a decorated veteran home, may this nation burn in hell!), new job, three hours from home, eventual relocation, forbidden to access the home by movers, hyperthyroidism, aortic dilation to near aneurysm level, cauda equina syndrome, to levels threatening paralysis, cervical spinal stenosis where I was looking for what worked - the radiologist report proved my observation correct, everything is FUBAR.<br /> Now, the newest movers claimed, quite literally, "Eeek, a dead mouse" and refused to honor the $10k relocation package, which was handed back to my employer.<br /> I'll lose the lot of it on the 21st.<br /> So, I'm goddamned sorry that I returned to this uncivilized land that I screwed up in defending for most of my life.<br /> If I sound pissed off, you should hear me in person, put on hearing protection first.<br /> I'm going to lose both my own baby pictures, films of me and my parents, family photographs, pictures of our own children growing up, furniture we purchased, computers, information on said computers, treasured mementos, pictures of my own parents, grandparents, family documents, historical documents and a lot more.</p> <p>Well, the relocation service does have a contract, they've reneged upon it, variously (two movers) one condemned sign canceled the attempt, the other, "eek a mouse" and trash in a burglarized basement.</p> <p>So, my stress level is... Immense.<br /> To the point where, I mentally toy with the notion of a judicial duel, as PA has not statute or case law against such and to be honest, it'd be a bit of fun to at least tangle things up while things get sorted, foul the bank that double dealed up and additionally, make case law.<br /> And yes, I'm immensely pissed off.<br /> And slightly depressed, only slightly, I'm far too angry to remain much depressed.</p> <p>Oh, for cream on the top of everything, my wife's gallbladder disease was dismissed by our former primary. It seems a habituation for him, as we've heard from multiple other women who also were ignored, to find new medical coverage - some specialists that assumed primary care of the patient.<br /> Her gallbladder was so fouled as to induce bilary cirrhosis.</p> <p>Now, can you imagine a man more angry than this husband of 35+ years?</p> <p>Sorry to unload here, but I needed to do so somewhere.<br /> Lest I actually harm someone that angered me.</p> <p>Here's the laugh.<br /> The difficulty in an inertial confinement system isn't the initial confinement, but in retention of confinement beyond disassembly at X shakes. This can be created by R, focused by Y, via Z. This can extend confinement far beyond 50 shakes, sufficient to both confine the fission to high efficiency *and* focus the energy to Q, via P, causing fusion, creating neutrons to be focused by AA, into RR.</p> <p>And yes, I I do know the formulae. And the theory.<br /> Oh wait, I'm not Snowden, seeking attention.<br /> And no, nobody will *ever* get that information from the Madness Machine.<br /> I still have nightmares from the still classified footage from both atomic bombings, I'd never wish that upon even my worst enemies.*</p> <p>*Yeah, I'm serious on all points, especially viewing classified footage from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Every moment of thinking of it makes me want to puke. Many, makes me actually cry.<br /> Especially, a carbonized infant on her back, being removed. When removed, some flesh fell off, bloodlessly, she died when she saw her carbonized infant.<br /> Feel nauseated? I always do, remembering *seeing* that film. </p> <p>I've dealt with that and more.<br /> Now, losing everything we inherited and owned, due to "eek a mouse!".</p> <p>Now, do explain how you can find an emotional context with me?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345496&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1aeWoBG5x9x0bSWDLqdEgCtUk4_v8v9jsYP4XQXoWxY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345496">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1345495#comment-1345495" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345497" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476716505"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Damn, Wzrd1.</p> <blockquote><p>It was evening when we came to the river<br /> With a low moon over the desert<br /> that we had lost in the mountains, forgotten,<br /> what with the cold and the sweating<br /> and the ranges barring the sky.<br /> And when we found it again,<br /> In the dry hills down by the river,<br /> half withered, we had<br /> the hot winds against us.</p> <p>There were two palms by the landing;<br /> The yuccas were flowering; there was<br /> a light on the far shore, and tamarisks.<br /> We waited a long time, in silence.<br /> Then we heard the oars creaking<br /> and afterwards, I remember,<br /> the boatman called us.<br /> We did not look back at the mountains.</p></blockquote> <blockquote><p> In some sort of crude sense which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish, the physicists have known sin; and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose. -- Robert Oppenheimer, physisist</p> <p>Speaking of Leonard Cohen, It's closing time.</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-0lV5qs1Qw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-0lV5qs1Qw</a></p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345497&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="237QhnqQ9XRelXmMVXYS7kAfCK21QjOkmBLfj7b5kwM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sullenbode (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345497">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345498" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476727574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I try to find things that I like and indulge myself as much as I reasonably can. No asceticism here.</i></p> <p>Yeah, I've been cooking a lot; it's something that I enjoy that actually makes me feel a little bit good about myself.</p> <p><i>So good luck. I say that with great feeling for you.</i></p> <p>Thanks, Denice.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345498&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IMCBD4v0DN2cYUn1k-PHJwTSn2g2ysM4Sd4H4jiCNqA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345498">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345499" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476727619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Second 'graph was not supposed to be in italics...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345499&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ocHmYQKxBN2fcCddVAK5_eH87gAQh-iw0KDQIsTqtqc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345499">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345500" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476807379"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP:</p> <p>Well, I DID mean things other than cooking but<br /> whatever floats your boat.</p> <p>I am relatively fine today except for my adventure... I mean business transaction with the Syrian plumber which was confusing but relatively inexpensive... so far.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345500&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D0ckevR6rTAlxOdglZf7F9oRRcrMd8b4zXiDUY2LNl8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345500">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345501" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476810120"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denise Walter says (#69),</p> <p>RI is a social place where minions come to share news, commiserate, interact hilariously and encourage each other in our daily lives.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Additionally, the minions like JP are very interesting and entertaining. Thanks for making this blog both salty and sweet!.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345501&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jIDV9o8y_ai5p5Jabm9aE28XPDppm2qlirq54maPXEY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345501">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345502" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476811487"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Well, I DID mean things other than cooking but<br /> whatever floats your boat.</i></p> <p>I've become very interested in mycology and have been out in the woods regularly looking for edibles and pretty mushrooms. Does that count? ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345502&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zJZjhTVoj-KxEivbvg8RWod1tCOZ7L2HoKb835kqBxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345502">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345503" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476811876"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Some <a href="http://imgur.com/a/9CgAm">recent finds.</a></p> <p>Nature's birdbaths.</p> <p>I'm hoping that, even though it's gotten cooler, the recent rains will have pushed up some more boletes or something nice like that. Going out in a day or two once it's sunny and warm(ish).</p> <p>P.S., Narad can speak to the therapeutic value of cooking for other people.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345503&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lIEv1XKNjGusM3zzglImMDTwf94CviXcpU9BHPUQrsQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345503">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345507" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476835282"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can speak as well to the therapeutic effects of cooking for others.<br /> When each parent died, I busied myself with cooking for guests who came by to offer their condolences.</p> <p>I'll probably cook for my own funeral. If I have to lay there and listen to people lie about how great I was, I'd otherwise end up getting up and leaving. ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345507&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oGqYRDp-MuNzm_qXAua6zihMt3bIH7q6Ov21KeMtb-w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345507">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1345503#comment-1345503" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345504" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476814147"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Additionally, the minions like JP are very interesting and entertaining. Thanks for making this blog both salty and sweet!.</p></blockquote> <p>Thanks, MJD. Perhaps it's something at least a few people can agree on. ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345504&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UFZXOQvIUbwZ-cQZ6d2Bs1pHk1StQzHfucawmbPM8dE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345504">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345505" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476816655"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>What can I say, I make people nervous.</p></blockquote> <p>This assertion is doomed by plain counterexample.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345505&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pc8xUatsUMXphX9YD97IyXsT5SWP1GtYf8Fi3M8bF7E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345505">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345506" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476821192"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And since we're off topic (sorry), Chris, what can you tell me about WA politics these days? I've been out of touch for about ten years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345506&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qE95_o20YCwRo0hyAT-ndvAq1IGqWymBz_V1FK0txU4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345506">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345508" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476880811"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP:</p> <p>Mushrooms most definitely count.<br /> ( Although I was thinking about something else.**)<br /> Quite a few are visible in the 'park-like setting' that borders on my place.</p> <p>In other news...<br /> 'fear and loathing in Las Vegas' ( stolen phrase) continues apace.</p> <p>The Syrian plumber has finished... for now.</p> <p>I have loads of work for my secondary avocation.</p> <p>** I was thinking about creature comforts in general : I have an Armenian friend from Egypt who is very aware of the finer things in life and pursues them with great relish:<br /> if there is a perfect cotton sheet or Martini to be had in the area, she'll find it- and usually at a discount. She is involved with a very well-to-do man who takes her on interesting jaunts around Europe and North America. (I have tried to emulate her because I believe I have somewhat more ascetic tendencies which often waste life) She just returned from a week in Sicily - she didn't cancel the trip despite having cut her foot ( 25 stitches !) because she didn't want to wreck her friend's plans. So she hobbled around Palermo sampling gelato and Espresso, I have recently only hobbled around Oakt... OAKLAND myself. But did have decent sushi later so it wasn't so bad,</p> <p>I must aim higher.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345508&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3hhK348Xt_fiW9Av9SnzHr1eJ1TzytvN02sBdwpZlV8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345508">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345509" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476881954"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I should correct myself:<br /> JP doesn't make me "nervous" exactly BUT I do worry about her because I know that she's had setbacks and has been rather morose. Ultimately, I have hopes for her recovery although in a somewhat guarded way.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345509&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y35tsbbavTLy4tcYNiZeyUR8KLfL_Nfd4bHm0UNg7Kc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345509">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345510" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476888211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>She is involved with a very well-to-do man who takes her on interesting jaunts around Europe and North America. </i></p> <p>Gee, I need to find one of those. ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345510&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wjMhrN1UmKWEHS8EUDDgMPrUXaJRjYp15N-uaUEvH3U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345510">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345511" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476892622"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Ultimately, I have hopes for her recovery although in a somewhat guarded way.</p></blockquote> <p>Well, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg9uVRfnxGI">things don't stay together, some friends don't get better.</a></p> <p>But we'll see.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345511&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9JDCzNt-kAfyqpDWa9pTUGv8vmJZC9KntKu6AMyioPo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345511">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345512" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1476968248"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP:</p> <p>I hope you find someone like that or alternately, create your own pathway to get whatever it is that you want.</p> <p>Sometimes, in my own case, it's a little of both plus one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345512&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BcmzlZZHSUFxLuZL6L7ekVHCZRV02sQY2IBJDiim6cw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 20 Oct 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345512">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345513" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1478816117"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I got the news tonight that Leonard Cohen has passed away.</p> <p><a href="http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/leonard-cohen-dies-at-age-82/ar-AAk9wzl?li=BBnbfcL">http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/leonard-cohen-dies-at-age-82/a…</a></p> <p>Perhaps it truly is closing time.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345513&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2GmelcKATymOytabTmRowwucujiFPlT-A7UbUNuE2BA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345513">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1345514" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1478962630"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If it be your will<br /> That I speak no more<br /> And my voice be still<br /> As it was before<br /> I will speak no more<br /> I shall abide until<br /> I am spoken for<br /> If it be your will<br /> If it be your will<br /> That a voice be true<br /> From this broken hill<br /> I will sing to you<br /> From this broken hill<br /> All your praises they shall ring<br /> If it be your will<br /> To let me sing</p> <p>From this broken hill<br /> All your praises they shall ring<br /> If it be your will<br /> To let me sing</p> <p>If it be your will<br /> If there is a choice<br /> Let the rivers fill<br /> Let the hills rejoice<br /> Let your mercy spill<br /> On all these burning hearts in hell<br /> If it be your will<br /> To make us well</p> <p>And draw us near<br /> And bind us tight<br /> All your children here<br /> In their rags of light<br /> In our rags of light<br /> All dressed to kill<br /> And end this night<br /> If it be your will</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkEYkUxdhcU">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkEYkUxdhcU</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1345514&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="33eQ9IP6CBnKxmXV1m1Z-YMS7yetHhGtCtYF3FoUgoA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 12 Nov 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1345514">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2016/10/14/medscape-enables-functional-medicine-quackery%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 14 Oct 2016 04:00:50 +0000 oracknows 22410 at https://scienceblogs.com The Cleveland Clinic: Promoting dubious diet advice on Twitter and beyond https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/08/26/the-cleveland-clinic-promoting-dubious-diet-device-on-twitter-and-beyond <span>The Cleveland Clinic: Promoting dubious diet advice on Twitter and beyond</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I’ve mentioned on quite a few occasions that there’s a quote attributed to philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer that is much beloved of cranks:</p> <blockquote><p> All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. </p></blockquote> <p>I also like to point out that Schopenhauer probably never said this and just <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/11/a-proposal-anti-schopenhauer-response/">how silly the thought behind this quote is</a> when you think about it. Unfortunately, as I was perusing Twitter yesterday, I couldn’t help but think of this quote, but not in the way quacks and cranks usually intend. Rather, I was thinking of a modified version of it to describe my feelings towards quackademic medicine.</p> <!--more--><p>Quackademic medicine, as you might recall, is a term first coined (as far as I can tell) by <a href="http://doctorrw.blogspot.com/2008/01/exposing-quackery-in-medical-education.html">Dr. R. W. Donnell</a> to describe the infiltration of outright quackery into academic medicine in the form of “complementary and alternative medicine” (a.k.a. CAM), which is now more commonly referred to by advocates as “integrative medicine,” the implication being that integrative medicine provides the “best of both worlds,” alternative medicine and real medicine. In actuality, it does nothing more than “integrate” pseudoscience and quackery into real, science-based medicine. In any case, in the world of quackademic medicine, one of the quackiest of the quackademics, a veritable bastion of quackademic medicine, is the Cleveland Clinic. It’s an academic medical center that has always had a lot of woo in its integrative medicine department, but in 2014 it surpassed itself by being the first academic medical center to host a traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/24/quackademic-medicine-takes-it-to-the-next-level-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">herb dispensary and clinic</a>, run by a naturopath. Not satisfied with that, later that same year, it <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">started a functional medicine clinic</a> run by the founder and guru of all that is functional medicine, Mark Hyman, who also <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/12/has-dr-oz-become-antivaccine/">wrote an antivaccine book</a> with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. himself. Functional medicine, of course, is basically quackery gussied up to look like scientific medicine that is basically <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/18/the-quackery-of-so-called-functional-medicine-making-it-up-as-you-go-along/">making it up as you go along</a>. Unfortunately, that hasn’t stopped the Cleveland Clinic’s functional medicine clinic from being <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">wildly successful</a>.</p> <p>So basically, my version of that fake Schopenhauer quote applied to quackademic medicine tends to boil down to: All quackery passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Then it is "integrated" into medicine by credulous academic medical centers like the Cleveland Clinic.</p> <p>What got me thinking about this was an incident yesterday where I happened to see in my Twitter feed responses by people I'm following to the Cleveland Clinic's Twitter account. It wasn’t pretty. The reason it wasn’t pretty is because of what the Cleveland Clinic’s social media people were Tweeting. Mixed in among the usual self-promotional Tweets designed to promote the institution were some real howlers. For example:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Eat spinach for a firm bottom. This leafy green contains the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/collagen?src=hash">#collagen</a> boosting nutrient vitamin C, which keeps your skin tight and firm.</p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/767896669643878400">August 23, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> My first reaction to this was that this sounds like something I would find being promoted by Dr. Oz’s or Oprah’s or—dare I say it?—Gwyneth Paltrow’s Twitter feed, not the Twitter feed of a respected academic medical center. What actually brought my attention to this particular Tweet were the reactions though, reactions like:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a> it also has large amounts of vitamin k which can cause headaches and thicken blood</p> <p>— dlmcbrayer (@dlmcbrayer) <a href="https://twitter.com/dlmcbrayer/status/767897749358518272">August 23, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> And:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a> and if you believe that we have a bridge to sell you in Antarctica!</p> <p>— Rjeff (@rjeff48) <a href="https://twitter.com/rjeff48/status/767905834789634048">August 23, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> And:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a> stop embarrassing yourself. Eating spinach is great. It will NOT give you a "firm bottom".</p> <p>— Dr. Nimigan MD FRCSC (@DrNimigan) <a href="https://twitter.com/DrNimigan/status/768113285896036352">August 23, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> And perhaps my favorite:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a> Get an <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RDN?src=hash">#RDN</a> to review your nutriton tweets.</p> <p>— Emily Kean, MBA, RDN (@Keannutrition) <a href="https://twitter.com/Keannutrition/status/768161354695835648">August 23, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Indeed. As was pointed out, spinach is great stuff from a nutritional standpoint, but it won’t give you a firmer bottom because of its vitamin C. It might help you get a firmer bottom if you eat more green leafy vegetables and exercise, but that’s less popular a message.</p> <p>There’s more where that came from, unfortunately:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Eat these <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/superfoods?src=hash">#superfoods</a> for smoother skin:<br />- Kiwi<br />- Pineapple<br />- Guava<br />- Papaya</p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/768062780087816192">August 23, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> OK, the term “superfood” is a marketing term, not a term that has anything to do with medicine or science. It is a term that should never be seen on the Twitter account (or on other social media) of a reputable academic medical center. There is no such thing as “superfoods.” The term “superfood” implies, well, something “super” in the food, that the food is somehow far superior to most other foods or has some sort of nutrient that allows it to improve or bolster health or cure disease. Let’s <a href="http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/there-s-no-such-thing-as-a-superfood-it-s-nonsense-1.1998166">listen to a real professor of nutrition</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> “There’s no such thing as a superfood. It’s nonsense: just one of those marketing terms,” says University College Dublin professor of nutrition Mike Gibney, throwing on the garb of Ireland’s superfood Grinch. “There is no evidence that any of these foods are in any way unusually good.” </p></blockquote> <p>Yet here’s the Cleveland Clinic claiming that kiwi, pineapple, guava, and papaya are “superfoods” that’ll give you smoother skin. It’s antiaging woo combined with nutrition woo, and it’s all over the recent Twitter feed of the Cleveland Clinic. For example:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Vitamin E can be a powerful <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/antioxidant?src=hash">#antioxidant</a> that helps your body fight off infection. Find it in almonds, broccoli, peanuts and spinach.</p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/768236416778186752">August 24, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Of course, the benefits of antioxidants aren’t nearly as clear as the Cleveland Clinic would lead you to believe, and there’s a paucity of evidence that antioxidants do anything like that. Worse, one almost gets the feeling that Oprah now owns the Cleveland Clinic:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Broccoli provides a good source of riboflavin (vitamin B2), which may help keep your lips super-smooth. <a href="https://t.co/RagjaZ7gkc">pic.twitter.com/RagjaZ7gkc</a></p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/768621429336121344">August 25, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> And:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">5 foods that fight wrinkles:<br />- Apricots<br />- Broccoli<br />- Citrus Fruits<br />- Sweet Potatoes<br />- Tofu</p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/766809494357614592">August 20, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Either that, or a fashion magazine has taken over. As a friend of the blog put it:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic">@ClevelandClinic</a> have you given your twitter password to a snake oil peddler? Citation direly needed.</p> <p>— (((Catherina+SM))) (@justthevax) <a href="https://twitter.com/justthevax/status/767006515139977216">August 20, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> In any case, is there anything more inane, from a medical standpoint, than these Tweets from the Cleveland Clinic? A significant fraction of recent Tweets seem to be pushing vegetables more as a source of substances that’ll rejuvenate a woman’s skin, giving her a tight bottom and smooth lips and:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Chia seeds are one of the best sources of omega-3 fatty acid, and can help turn your snakeskin hands luxuriously soft.</p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/768840804982886401">August 25, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Seriously, who has snakeskin hands? Is that anything like <a href="https://youtu.be/FyO1PSTKqGg">snakeskin cowboys</a>?</p> <p>I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. If you had taken a look at the webpages for the <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/wellness/integrative-medicine">Cleveland Clinic Center for Integrative &amp; Lifestyle Medicine</a>, you wouldn’t be surprised either. Take a look at the <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/wellness/integrative-medicine/treatments-services">services offered</a>:</p> <ul><li>Acupuncture</li> <li>Chinese Herbal Therapy</li> <li>Chiropractic Services</li> <li>Guided Imagery</li> <li>Holistic Psychotherapy</li> <li>Lifestyle U</li> <li>Massage Therapy</li> <li>Reiki Therapy</li> <li>Yoga</li> </ul><p>Take a look at what <a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/wellness/integrative-medicine/treatments-services/reiki.aspx">it says about reiki</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Reiki is a form of hands-on, natural healing that uses universal life force energy. The term comes from the Japanese words “rei,” which translates into universal, and “ki,” which means vital life force energy that flows through all living things. This gentle energy is limitless in abundance and is believed to be a spiritual form of energy. It is not tied to any specific religion or nationality.</p> <p>The Reiki practitioner is the conduit between you and the source of the universal life force energy. The energy flows through the practitioner’s energy field and through his or her hands to you. The energy does not come from the practitioner; it comes through the practitioner from the universal source. There is no energy drain on the person giving the treatment. You may experience the energy as sensations such as heat, tingling, or pulsing where the practitioner places her hands on your body, or you may feel these sensations move through your body to other locations. This is the energy flowing into you. Some people may not perceive any change at all. Most people feel very relaxed and peaceful. Many clients even fall asleep while receiving Reiki treatment. </p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/files/Wellness/reiki-factsheet.pdf">Elsewhere</a>, the Cleveland Clinic asserts that it offers reiki for:</p> <ul><li>Cancer</li> <li>Infertility</li> <li>Parkinson’s disease</li> <li>Psychological illnesses</li> <li>Chronic pain</li> <li>Digestive problems</li> <li>Stress-related diseases</li> </ul><p>Every time I go back to the section about reiki on Cleveland Clinic’s website I keep hoping that I won’t find that passage. I’ve been hoping in vain for several years. This is the same text I found on a pamphlet from the Cleveland Clinic at least seven years ago. Of course, as I’ve explained time and time again (more times than I can remember, but it’s worth explaining briefly again), reiki is nothing more than mystical magical wishful thinking. Think of it this way. Its adherents claim reiki “works” by allowing the reiki master to channel “energy” from what reiki believers call the “universal source” through him and into the patient in order to heal. Now substitute the word “Jesus” or “God” for “Universal Source.” Now what are you dealing with? That’s right. You’re dealing with faith healing. The only difference is that reiki bases its faith healing on Eastern mystical beliefs instead of the Judeo-Christian god.</p> <p>And the Cleveland Clinic has been featuring a credulous description of this superstitious belief on its website for several years now, at least.</p> <p>That’s not all, of course. the Cleveland Clinic also offers the Esselstyn Program, which is a plant-based diet program to “reverse heart disease” developed by Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr., MD. He’s a former surgeon who’s become a vegan evangelist. According to his book, <em>Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease</em>, to reverse hear disease you must follow the following rules:</p> <ul><li>you may not eat anything with a mother or a face (no meat, poultry, or fish)</li> <li>you cannot eat dairy products</li> <li>you must not consume oil of any kind</li> <li>generally you cannot eat nuts or avocados</li> </ul><p>As the <a href="https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2015/08/04/the-incredibly-bad-science-behind-dr-esselstyns-plant-based-diet/">Skeptical Cardiologist</a> has pointed out, Esselstyn’s program is based on incredibly bad science. For example, he points out that the best randomized controlled clinical trials that we have for diet to prevent heart disease “have shown that supplementing diet with olive oil and nuts substantially lowers CAD.”</p> <p>Longtime readers know that I did my general surgery residency at University Hospitals of Cleveland back in the late 1980s and early 1990s and that I got my PhD at Case Western Reserve University in the early 1990s. I know Cleveland. Even though, back in those days, the Cleveland Clinic was the bitter rival of University Hospitals, there was always respect. When I moonlighted as a flight physician for Metro LifeFlight for two and a half years, the Cleveland Clinic was a frequent destination for the transport of cardiac patients. Its cardiology and cardiac surgery programs were world class then, and they’re still world class. That’s why it’s so depressing to me to see what the Cleveland Clinic has become.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Thu, 08/25/2016 - 21:04</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/popular-culture" hreflang="en">Popular Culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/tales-helicopter" hreflang="en">Tales from the helicopter</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/diet" hreflang="en">diet</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackademic-medicine" hreflang="en">quackademic medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/reiki" hreflang="en">reiki</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/twitter" hreflang="en">Twitter</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341873" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472178426"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Schopenhauer's quote is : "To truth only a brief celebration of victory is allowed between the two long periods during which it is condemned as paradoxical, or disparaged as trivial". Which is not very different from the other quote, and not silly at all. And has very few to do with the Cleveland Clinic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341873&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NaZoo0jhMpHre_6c9kGnheeHZte9MSjb8zA3SmL7HDg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 25 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341873">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472187920"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Actually, that quote is quite different from the quote attributed to him that I discussed because there is nothing about these "truths" as inevitably being accepted as "self-evident." That's the part of the quote that makes it very silly. Actually, go back and read my discussion of the quote. The whole quote is silly because many truths aren't violently opposed or condemned.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tXE1EvnlmiJ4PThj88-lJ1vGumjh6SDm6F86B4S25D4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1341873#comment-1341873" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472183510"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OT:<br /> I've just read the JAMA article "Unintended consequences of expensive cancer therapeutics—the pursuit of marginal indications and a me-too mentality that stifles innovation and creativity: the John Conley Lecture."<br /> It's a lot to digest, but first thing I thought was 'altmed loons are gonna love it'... Water to their mill.<br /> What do you think about this analysis? I'm slightly confused, tbh.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I_-QC9uFZ9FJTCd1suYGF1yBfU2FnUipZ1gCh5CeeFc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Amaria (not verified)</span> on 25 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472190784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I won't mention where I practice. The acute pain service has received and I am already resisting the offer of assistance from some local reiki practitioners. Also on a recent OB anesthesia call lets just say- epidural 1, essential oils 0 !</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LI05FaSBO2YW47-o2wf7bhQur3BOX5DgkpqtW_LBvmg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Anesthesia (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472190969"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oral # 2<br /> Truths and untruths are violently opposed or condemned if they threaten some interests. Otherwise, they are simply ignored.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nXQwvnaglrJndSamlFZmmuTbLObX_RdeBvSIui0AW6c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472191607"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Amaria<br /> There is no innovation and creativity in alternative medicine, just a different kind of conformism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="i6nX0nX2ehDzjz4J-WqVsnB5iWJvSPknCERMvTLg7tk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341879" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472192054"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I won’t mention where I practice. The acute pain service has received and I am already resisting the offer of assistance from some local reiki practitioners. Also on a recent OB anesthesia call lets just say- epidural 1, essential oils 0 !</p></blockquote> <p>Yeah, it's everywhere. There's a common progression. First reiki practitioners offer their services for free. Some hospitals fall for this and reiki masters get a foothold in those hospitals. Then, if the program is popular, the hospital considers hiring a reiki master or two. Then the program gets entrenched.</p> <p>The Cleveland Clinic is just among the worst.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341879&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L97qsrpsg3yk3BGeIE3U3uQrK8kVUDHhE79iIQ53zsc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341879">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341880" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472196138"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I guess fermented food is out on the Esselstyn Program. (For non-cooks and bakers, "Mother" is a common term for an already fermented portion added to a new batch to start it fermenting),</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341880&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fT6OFdZ6MwGuSM5p6XMa1_YCXDhgdLY-2yCH5dzBH40"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Terrie (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341880">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341881" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472199578"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The discussion thread on the previous post about the fake Schopenhauer quote mentioned the quote from Carl Sagan:</p> <blockquote><p>They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.</p></blockquote> <p>That last item neatly encapsulates the fallacy to which people offering the fake Schopenhauer quote succumb. Just because a proposition goes through the first two stages doesn't mean it's actually true. Often a proposition will go from being ridiculed to being violently opposed because somebody did the experiment and found that the proposition was not only wrong but dangerously so. Orac has discussed several such cases in previous posts.</p> <p>I do have a couple of nits to pick with the Sagan quote. One, it's not entirely fair to Bozo, who was one of the best in the world at his chosen profession (i.e., he wanted people to laugh at him). Two, Columbus's critics actually did have a point. They didn't doubt that the earth was round (that myth seems to have been invented in the 19th century); they correctly objected to his claim that the Earth's circumference was about 30,000 km, rather than the 40,000 km that Eratosthenes measured in ancient Greek times. Columbus was lucky that there turned out to be a previously unknown continent about as far west of Spain as he claimed Japan would be.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341881&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kHW260UbS_Nm9fQIw3CIPB9q5y2ZeTJVhWVVbEJT6cw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341881">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341882" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472199608"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>. . . There’s a common progression. . . . services for free. . . . Then the program gets entrenched.</p></blockquote> <p>Ack. That sounds like how drug dealers work. Well, at least they offer something that has an effect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341882&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gnOjMoIR098Q41VCfQhfXsVmD3AAUgm6PTCvWxukRuc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341882">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341883" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472200066"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's times like these that I'm tempted to open a Twitter account...fortunately, the temptation passes.</p> <p>Dear Cleveland Clinic,</p> <p>If I eat pineapple, I will have smoother skin. The mortician's staff will see to that. I eat broccoli 4 or 5 times a week because I love it. I still have old lady skin and lips - possibly because I'm an old lady. I don't even know where to go with spinach = firm bottom. But, it certainly gave me a much needed laugh!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341883&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5Bs7B67EC3IHXC6yVn7kMINhnT2FWYMt2y6FpeXc8YM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ellie (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341883">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341884" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472200584"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think this is the marketing department at work. </p> <p>What twenty-five year old is going to eat more vegetables and fruits to prevent long term chronic disease, but if it improves one's appearance today.... now there is a great argument. </p> <p>There might even be something to this (with a lot of YMMV), Eating healthy food can make one feel better, and if you feel better (or lose weight) you can look better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341884&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pm9LUaDbUNBKRjS7KzGpQmen--Hqpkt2KkyqNVrIsTU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">EileenK (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341884">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341885" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472205927"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Between the perplexing ingredient selection and the poor knife technique in that image, I can only imagine that the outcome is not going to be good.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341885&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Au5Slyq8zNeFhN-1XNWrUVncr86PKuRoBp7MRBuPy-0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341885">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341886" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472206297"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Eric<br /> Maybe the worst fallacy is in the idea that truth eventually wins. What about religions, astrology, homeopathy, acupuncture and so on ?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341886&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4RL9OLyR2aacXE_vBzY4Uq9Ft2pxMR4J23bBJKAcIcc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341886">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341887" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472206476"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can't swear that eating lots of spinach will give anyone a "firm bottom" but it's well established that eating lots of spinach will give some folk an increased risk of kidney stones.<br /> If you want a firm bottom, get off of it and move it around.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341887&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VzmbuWqanUwrKvN0vWcnPeC9J7hyi_9hLMJ1ZAIMvlw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Old Rockin&#039; Dave (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341887">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341888" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472206786"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>they correctly objected to his claim that the Earth’s circumference was about 30,000 km, rather than the 40,000 km that Eratosthenes measured in ancient Greek times. Columbus was lucky that there turned out to be a previously unknown continent about as far west of Spain as he claimed Japan would be.</p></blockquote> <p>I had never heard that, Eric Lund #9. Public education sux; We were taught the myth. Though, 'Japan'?? I was taught India thus the native americans became called 'Indians'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341888&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sGxlr54OMAdkl74qQTCp-VdKtsO7rzyv5r2Hs_bz-50"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341888">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341889" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472208511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Eric #9, @Gilbert #15</p> <p>It was known in Colombus' time that the Earth was round, but that knowledge was mostly kept away in ancient Antiquitiy knowledge. Copernicus and Galileo were persecuted by the Church, which had much more power and message control than they. The problem was not the flat/round Earth per se, but more of the Earth/Sun/Center of Universe relationship, and what orbits what. The fear of sailors of falling off the edge of the world, and sea monsters, was real, because the lay man did not get to know the scientist's view very often, but went to Church every Sunday. </p> <p>Colombus didn't start on his journey with only just his hunch that the Earth was round, and he got financed because the theoretical knowledge existed too. The Americas were not really known and recognized then in Europe (only the Norse had been there, but the Basque had visited the coastal waters too, and both knowledge source were mostly oral and disregarded/unknown), and Colombus' big mistake was that he hadn't reached the Indies but thought he had. Europeans who had known the Indies from the other way around knew immediately they were not at the same place. Magellan's trip was more precise, and even then, he misjudged the size of the Pacific Ocean which was way larger than anyone thought. His slave, Enrique, who could speak to the tribes in the Philippines but was bought in Malaysia, is probably the first man to circumnavigate the globe in history. But that expedition did reach its intended destination.</p> <p>Sorry for that long OT posts...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341889&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="q4aDSkNz-BSml6OF2zVjEwr4_71WqaieIsdemgIQT2Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Takiar (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341889">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341890" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472208652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Often, much of woo-fraught ( so-called) health/ diet advice amounts to appearance-centred hacks for women who have feelings of inferiority.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341890&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OUF0Q1W_AuG4hIpxqdGJfo7900kqgE6xE04jGveaBL4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341890">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341891" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472208727"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. </i></p> <p>Even if Schopenhauer had said it, and even if it was broadly true of "great truths" ...</p> <p>It still wouldn't say that <i>only</i> truths are ridiculed and opposed - stupidity and lies can be and often are ridiculed and opposed, but never accepted.</p> <p>("They laughed at Einstein!" ... "They also laughed at Bozo.")</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341891&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GGsYkfeUbI6P1Sp74HeU23-ePFy7xI0D6Rqg4tjDww0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sigivald (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341891">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341892" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472210818"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The foods that come closest to having the set of nutrients needed for healthy skin are the skins of other animals.  Which skin to eat depends on your own skin problems.  If you have oily or scaly skin, for example, you should not eat fish skin.  If you have bumpy skin, you should not eat chicken or goose skin.  For most people, pig skin comes closest to the ideal of a healthy smooth skin.  This is widely available as fried pork rinds, sold in the snack section of supermarkets everywhere.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341892&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ldf35YSgSNgnuWq41wwqC3oc9Rea778q0aYwyvxOIok"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341892">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341893" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472211395"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But Mark!<br /> Many of the woo-enticed would never eat anything which had a face or a mother!<br /> And pigs and chicken do!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341893&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sww15DTvpF6rVKypaxIEKd3JqcZ5FRa8qAcrQqHptMo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341893">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341894" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472212525"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My usual response to the quote at the top of the post is, "Sure they laughed a Galileo. They also laughed at The Three Stooges."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341894&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KRkjVxPeL-_QjqWHzQQ6z0k_xxaa0UFRPOUqUstb_vc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">justawriter (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341894">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341895" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472212693"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I was taught India thus the native americans became called ‘Indians’.</p></blockquote> <p>Usage of geographic terms, like other aspects of language, evolve over time. In Columbus's day the Indies were the islands to the east and southeast of the Asian mainland--e.g., what we now call Indonesia. The modern country of India was then known as Hindustan; its current name is derived from the Indus River, which ironically is in Pakistan, not India (the British Raj included those two countries plus Bangladesh).</p> <p>My memory is hazy, but I have a recollection of Columbus circling an island he thought was Japan. It was actually Cuba.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341895&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w65cKJk88P6_bjXg6ZnMCgldI0iS1-WTuq4PM-MJGvM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341895">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341896" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472215377"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I didn't know where else to put this.<br /><a href="http://www.knowable.com/a/23-medical-professionals-share-the-worst-advice-a-patient-got-from-google?utm_content=inf_10_3136_3&amp;tse_id=INF_676a3fd06ada11e6aea2d77665e8622b">http://www.knowable.com/a/23-medical-professionals-share-the-worst-advi…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341896&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d78hr-ARCynoYVBjFvpvMnVgmZ2Zn0wSH6z1E_2jEB0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341896">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341897" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472227565"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is a related quote: <i>"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."</i></p> <p>-Max Planck (Nobel Prize winner)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341897&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KlrmZf2JJfekQTopQw2DQGAFX-9YCZ8i85YX_RIIOIw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ted Striker (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341897">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341898" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472228191"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"The Reiki practitioner is the conduit ....... There is no energy drain on the person giving the treatment."</p> <p>Just a drain on the finances of the Reiki con's victims ("patients).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341898&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3aF-aMbK5menBzP_WwPA3o1tMH5H-LhXWk9DjFxPiWw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Dr. Raymond G. Whitham">Dr. Raymond G… (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341898">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341899" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472228725"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Those tweets remind me a lot of the ridiculous things I see in the tabloids and magazines at the checkout line at the grocery store (lose 20 pounds in 2 weeks!). And based on those statements, I am disinclined to believe anything else I read in those publications.</p> <p>And it's the same way for the Cleveland Clinic. Sure, it used to be super respected, but all those tweets make me concerned that the quality of *all* of their care has gone down, not just that they've adopted nonsense. How is the average patient supposed to know if they will still be offered good, evidence-based, science-based medical treatment?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341899&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nkDgRY5P0SDo_MwWSf_MB0mgMByzYyJ5aUHkh2Q62ks"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341899">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341900" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472229032"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Eat spinach for a firm bottom. This leafy green contains the #collagen boosting nutrient vitamin C, which keeps your skin tight and firm.</i></p> <p>So out of the thousands of plant foods that contain Vitamin C, only spinach is mentioned?</p> <p>If spinach gives you a firm @ss, then I wonder what the Pauling Therapy can do? (Ever watch Death Becomes Her?)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341900&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PTanYt2bQ97YeOaWy4XgaHrMhtLr3rXQo1VwyH8pw7o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ted Striker (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341900">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341901" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472259163"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@JustaTech #27:</p> <blockquote><p> ridiculous things I see in the tabloids and magazines at the checkout line at the grocery store (lose 20 pounds in 2 weeks!). </p></blockquote> <p>The only way they can get someone to lose twenty pounds in two weeks is if that person spends £1.43 a day on those stupid magazines!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341901&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NlsVQ6QRneRf1oM3EuXMgUEZikyLy9jzxtXWF-F9_E0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Woods (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341901">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341902" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472262547"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Rich Woods<br /> You can lose more than 20 pounds in less than two weeks, but it costs an arm and a leg.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341902&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Urbl_XnsXHCmJXQu0lZ8VsR_TLnYSZQFp1SBIdbav-w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 26 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341902">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341903" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472285472"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Cleveland Clinic's tweets are fairly innocuous and easily ignored. But almost everything from @MarkHymanMD makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Mostly because I don't consider him a crank, but a woo-peddling opportunist. I try, but it's pretty ineffective to troll on Twitter :(</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341903&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cZnBejyW0ERc2oUjjfoz-G-CYfVFTmIh7PPLxD5BU4M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stephen (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341903">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341904" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472301718"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Which vegetables will make my boobs bigger?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341904&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vdi02V3RltaBKnox5AbT3b2rOAldZc0m5aNGTnL4LBw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Truther (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341904">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341905" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472318659"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#13 Narad<br /> I missed the knife technique. Scary to say the least.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341905&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SnUVzN5vNwRz6fc-5KQ3rvwwIt9Z9CCnDMj9uaTZB3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341905">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341906" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472328447"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#22 justawriter</p> <p><i> usual response to the quote at the top of the post is, “Sure they laughed a Galileo. They also laughed at The Three Stooges.”</i></p> <p> Well yes, Galileo was being an idiot but no one laughed at him.</p> <p>If he had a theory that held water then he was probably fine; a theory that is palpably false, well he is in trouble. Cold fusion anyone?</p> <p>This is my usual response to the Galileo crap. Galileo was taken seriously until it became obvious that his "theory" was nonsense. Any theory that predicts one tide a day is not likely to be endorsed by clerics who grew up on the western coast of Europe. </p> <p>And let's see, clerics from western France, Spain, Portugal maybe present day Netherlands? Probably laughing like mad.</p> <p>And remember the Jesuits in Rome ( at the Pontifical College) were among the most leaned astronomers in Europe at the time. And they had problems with his theory.</p> <p>There is no doubt that he was a brilliant experimental but some of his later theories were a bit dicey.</p> <p>Still, for a man in his 60'sm with arthritis and failing eyesight, house arrest in his own home does not seen a real persecution.</p> <p>And reportedly he published another three books ( in Amsterdam to be sure) before he died.</p> <p>My god, he really was persecuted.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341906&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_tHs4VzSalIJ8TislNECt8UD6eKxAAMbhpC5_NF6d0k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341906">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341907" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472328776"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Eat spinach for a firm bottom. This leafy green contains the #collagen boosting nutrient vitamin C, which keeps your skin tight and firm</i></p> <p>Hey it works for me. I love spinach.<br /> Err, combined with the 4--12 KM cycling every day but I did get a complement the other day.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341907&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xp23hwwf1gLqQJJYbzPcLLFmjOPp9F4rT2A7-Sz_OYk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341907">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341908" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472337063"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Truther, no vegetables, but the cheapest milk you can find. That's made by dairy cattle that are given hormones which increase udder size and capacity. That's what you want.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341908&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hCpypddBwImX2YQo9uj8b7MhBAQi9JF-Jpzx-jrJ53M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341908">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341909" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472351642"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ jkrideau<br /> "If he had a theory that held water then he was probably fine"<br /> How can you know? Galileo was persecuted not because he was wrong , but because he was a threat to Aristotelian order.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341909&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S8Tl4gIGy5lj2PVcojXjJccLdmE_jtAZFqZUledl2dk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 27 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341909">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341910" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472360345"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, if it works for Popeye's forearms, I'd say spinach might firm your gluteals. If you're a cartoon character.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341910&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FbgUockP8knV3vgzMnD7XCEd-Q4T-qzU9GPBVOf7_SE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">weirdnoise (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341910">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341911" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472384387"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#37 Daniel Corcos</p> <p><i>Galileo was persecuted not because he was wrong , but because he was a threat to Aristotelian order.</i> </p> <p>Oh definitely, sorry I did not mean to imply otherwise. That was why he was summoned before the Inquisition but if his theory had worked he almost certainly been okay. Aristotelian order was not fundamental Church doctrine. The Church could, fairly easily, adjust to it. </p> <p>He had already been censured for suggesting that a heliocentric solar system theory was “true”. The Church didn't seem to mind if he wanted to present the idea as a "thought experiment" but they wanted "very" solid proof before they would question Aristotle. </p> <p>He claimed that his new theory was true. The theory did not work properly and he presented it in a way that seemed to imply that the Pope was an idiot or, at least, that's how the Pope interpreted it. Apparently Galileo was not always the most tactful or politically astute person.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341911&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kqMnHLs4qWXk1dEIyTjugkL0vP2-Ugmlr5fP6nBWHJo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341911">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341912" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472387874"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ jkrideau<br /> "Aristotelian order was not fundamental Church doctrine"<br /> Actually it was very important:<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341912&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3H2VyRsn4A6g6zPKEGQDBBHWyh62llC6DBbLTxW73Mk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341912">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341913" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472397753"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Aristotelian order was not fundamental Church doctrine”<br /><i>Actually it was very important</i></p> <p>It may very well have been very important, I'm not at all conversant with its impact on Church thought but, again, I'd argue not fundamental. Aristotle was a pagan philosopher not a church father or something out of the bible. </p> <p>Actually the Bible's statement that the Sun stopped was probably a more serious issue but the Catholic Church never insisted on a literal interpretation of the Bible if solid conflicting evidence showed that a certain bible passage should be interpreted as allegorical. See recent Popes stand on evolution.</p> <p>It might have taken a lot of hair-splitting and theological footwork to switch to a heliocentric theory but that's one of the reasons for keeping theologians on the payroll.</p> <p>The Church was not anti-science but having a <i>very</i> important, if not really fundamental, piece of doctrine challenged meant that one needed really strong evidence. One, probably, need to be a good salesman too. Galileo seems to have failed in both and he was very lucky not to have been convicted of heresy. </p> <p> Try denying the Virgin Birth or the Trinity and then you are in real trouble. Those were/are very fundamental to Catholic doctrine. I believe these were some of the many things that got Giordano Bruno burned at the stake. These were real heresies. </p> <p>One of the many charges against Bruno seems to have concerned his astrological (?) theories but here again it seems it was not his heliocentric theory so much as his denial that the world would never end. That was/is heresy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341913&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E5clAFcb74WBJOKxVJ9n2vtIhoQuZpa6Uj4_5i7zltM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341913">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341914" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472398759"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There are many less politicized examples of scientific heresy. Take Gilber Ling's theory on the <a href="http://gilbertling.org/pdf/The-Association-Induction-Hypothesis-42-page-summary.pdf">Association-Induction Hypothesis.</a></p> <p>This seems like a better theory than the Membrane-Pump Hypothesis, yet it is dismissed by the orthodoxy. I have this seminal book in the mail (first edition) and will be able to talk more authoritatively on the matter in the future.</p> <p>Look at the history of scurvy and Vitamin C if you want to see how the obvious can be ignored for decades by scientists intent on finding a bacterial cause.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341914&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QBdITIptNoExbtkl3lfkR-1Z5FaNnTaKw2QmfaT4DL4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ted Striker (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341914">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341915" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472424867"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>At this time, heresy consisted in saying that the host could not contain the body of the Christ, and the Catholic Church found support in Aristotle writings to declare it possible. Everybody who was against Aristotle was heretical. You could challenge the writings in the Old Testament, but not Aristotle.<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_desecration">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_desecration</a><br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341915&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w7GGUuIvo02U0wjIt8u1A7nd8sJ67vH8aQMdfIvh_Kk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341915">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341916" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472439729"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Ted Striker<br /> The association-induction hypothesis has been cited 104 times from 1973 to 1991, which seems to indicate that it was not so heretical. After this date, it was cited only 5 times. Maybe this has to do with the identification and cloning of the membrane pumps....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341916&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LSrv-oeEfs_E2ArW3Bb-NpAOOmxRf09ucJdnMlpXe90"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 28 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341916">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341917" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472449924"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p># 43 Daniel Corcos</p> <p><i>At this time, heresy consisted in saying that the host could not contain the body of the Christ, and the Catholic Church found support in Aristotle writings to declare it possible. Everybody who was against Aristotle was heretical.</i> </p> <p>As far as I am aware <i> saying that the host could not contain the body of the Christ,</i> still is heresy.</p> <p>I think you are underestimating the mental agility of the Church theologians. I am pretty sure that they would be able to make an exemption for a heliocentric model if the evidence was good enough. </p> <p>If I am reading that Transusbstantian wiki correctly it looks to me while Aristotelian philosophy was important in supporting the concept of host as the body and blood of Christ it was not essential.<br /> Certainly the belief seems to have been held long before the Western Church adopted Aristotelianism and the wiki points out that one did not need it formally.<br /><i><b>In Roman Catholic theology</b></i></p> <p>The distinction between "substance" and "accidents" - the latter term is not used in the Catholic Church's official definition of the doctrine but has been used in the writings of theologians - arose from Aristotelian philosophy, but in Roman Catholic eucharistic theology is independent of that philosophy, since the distinction is a real one, as shown by the distinction between a person and that person's accidental appearances </p> <p>Still, I probably should grab that new bio of Galileo by David Wooton and see if he has any new information on the issue.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341917&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="saTTBgZvccaXmklhaWejSAIu6HtDYGGKV9-FeROSmXs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 29 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341917">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341918" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472469472"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Take a look at what it says about reiki:</p> <p>Reiki is a form of hands-on...</p></blockquote> <p>Not even ten words in and they're already getting it wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341918&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7JBM9Uqfbv1ZxTcQhcNUIfBpb8Oo5dWvh-HTfB9M-0w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard Smith (not verified)</span> on 29 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341918">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341919" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472487507"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Membrane pumps. You keep using this word Daniel, but I don't think it means what you think it means.</p> <p>Identifying a protein and calling it a pump does not necessarily make it so.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341919&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="naWFGM_s1TMgPYSwnvhjjRfpGy-4BY9UGhQMR826Ptc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ted Striker (not verified)</span> on 29 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341919">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341920" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472509106"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Ted Striker<br /> I acknowledge that the "pump" is a protein that transports molecules across the membrane, and not a real pump, but does it change anything?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341920&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="86ZDtv4r7N3xWxqbI6pNUF7gvvd8DzGp4CsjHah76KA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 29 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341920">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341921" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472592657"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Pedantic point... The original quote far upthread has now been revived by the Great Pumpkinhead in a recent speech and was incorrectly attributed to Gandhi: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." There is apparently no evidence that Gandhi actually said it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341921&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="V5yrm-rQXxt5bt0ZgngyDfNSIhDqkrbxEFiWC0pIIWM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sara (not verified)</span> on 30 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341921">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341922" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472603220"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Sara<br /> There is some truth in this quote, which may seems quite general but is biased. Another statement “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you lose." is also true.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341922&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="71U66zVkeERJgXwjy0V9qXMZw-cufzy4kdOv9hF3wHM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 30 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341922">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341923" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472634849"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You can't "fight" wrinkles, you prevent them by using sunscreen and wearing a hat in the sun. This also helps protect against skin cancer. You'd think a clinic would want people to know this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341923&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TemjFBXin-P3OlX80qUZZtTZS08WlMMvDDGekiXGwlo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">edith prickly (not verified)</span> on 31 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341923">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341924" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472640996"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The only certain way to prevent wrinkles is to die young. Not many clinics seem to recommend that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341924&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mIT27G6Hd-udIn5QgrVX9ydjjurlT-VzPyjOj5rP2RM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rs (not verified)</span> on 31 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341924">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1341925" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1472650106"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@rs -- or you can get fat. As ZsaZsa Gabor supposedly once said, " As a woman, you have to choose between your fanny or your face."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1341925&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HRCT85PS3lZAykTeo7a0j46YxmDxSsMO8uNgXUEgbpA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 31 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1341925">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2016/08/26/the-cleveland-clinic-promoting-dubious-diet-device-on-twitter-and-beyond%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 26 Aug 2016 01:04:27 +0000 oracknows 22376 at https://scienceblogs.com My last word (I hope): Michael Phelps, cupping, and "integrative medicine" https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/08/10/my-last-word-i-hope-michael-phelps-cupping-and-integrative-medicine <span>My last word (I hope): Michael Phelps, cupping, and &quot;integrative medicine&quot;</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As I mentioned yesterday, there are news events involving medicine (more specifically pseudoscience in medicine) that are so ubiquitous and irritating that they’re enough to bring me briefly out of my vacation to bang out a quick post. So it was when I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/08/09/thanks-michael-phelps-for-glamorizing-cupping-quackery/">wrote my post yesterday</a> about Michael Phelps’ enthusiasm for cupping, a practice attributed to traditional Chinese medicine that is actually an ancient practice that seems to have been independently thought up in multiple cultures, such as the ancient Egyptians. Basically, cupping therapy is a near-universal practice <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupping_therapy">dating back at least 3,500 years</a> that was commonly practiced until at least the 1800s. Not surprisingly, the very ancientness of the practice is frequently used by advocates of cupping to argue for its efficacy, but I tend to like to turn that argument around and point out that a practice that’s it’s very telling that a practice that’s been around some 3,500 years has so little evidence for its efficacy. That’s plenty of time to prove a treatment works.</p> <p>Be that as it may, it hadn’t been my intent to revisit cupping after yesterday, but then a reader pointed something out to me, namely how a part of the reason why cupping is now so accepted is because of the embrace of the prescientific medical system known as traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) by some of our most respected academic medical centers as part of “complementary and alternative medicine” (CAM) or, as it’s more commonly referred to, “integrative medicine.” Of course, it is obligatory (for me, at least) to point out whenever discussing integrative medicine that what integrative medicine involves is “integrating” pseudoscience, prescientific mystical beliefs, and quackery into real medicine. Traditional Chinese medicine is, after all, a prescientific belief system that is largely quackery in today’s world <a href="https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/retconning-traditional-chinese-medicine/">retconned by Chairman Mao</a> to seem as though there’s something to it but that did, as many ancient medical systems have, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/10/12/the-nobel-prize-versus-traditional-chinese-medicine/">find the occasional gem</a> that actually works. The rest, particularly acupuncture, cupping, and tongue diagnosis, is based in prescientific vitalism.</p> <!--more--><p>Athletes, however, are notoriously superstitious. So it’s not too surprising that Michael Phelps and a lot of other American athletes would embrace cupping, particularly given that the US Olympic Swim Team trainer is clearly a believer. However, physicians, particularly physicians at our greatest academic medical centers, should know better. Unfortunately, they do not, which is a large part of the reason why integrative medicine is flourishing. Unfortunately, the Michael Phelps story revealed this to anyone paying attention. Here’s how. Basically, when on Sunday reporters noticed the large, ugly hickeys all over Michael Phelps’ shoulders and back, asked what the heck that was all about, and found out about cupping, they needed “experts” to interview for their stories. Integrative medicine programs all over the country provided those “experts,” who all gave answers that ranged from endorsement to what Kimball Atwood used to like to call the <a href="https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-weekly-waluation-of-the-weasel-words-of-woo-10/">weasel words of woo</a>.</p> <p>For example, take a look at what Dr. Alex Moroz, director of the Integrative Sports Medicine program at NYU Langone Medical Center’s Rusk Rehabilitation, says in this <a href="http://www.vogue.com/13464780/michael-phelps-rio-olympics-cupping-treatment/">story in VOGUE</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Dr. Alex Moroz, director of the Integrative Sports Medicine program at NYU Langone Medical Center’s Rusk Rehabilitation, uses cupping at home on himself and his family. He believes there’s wisdom in the ancient practice, as well as common sense. Cupping’s effect, he says, is “mechanical, much like a massage,” and though Moroz has not treated professional athletes personally, he says, “It makes sense that it would work for that group of muscular skeletal injuries and problems.” </p></blockquote> <p>One notes that massage doesn’t involve intentionally popping a bunch of capillaries in order to produce a bunch of huge hickeys that, when they get out of hand, can turn into <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/07/01/whats-the-harm-cupping-edition/">full thickness necrosis of the skin</a>. Yes, this complication is very uncommon, but when there is no objectively detectable benefit to cupping, that makes cupping all risk and no benefit.</p> <p>Joining the crowd of academic “integrative medicine” specialists, there was a story <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-phelps-cupping-rio-olympics-2016/">this story from CBS News</a>featuring Dr. Adam Perlman, director for Duke Integrative Medicine:</p> <blockquote><p> Perlman said he first spotted an Olympic athlete with telltale cupping marks while watching the women's gymnastic competition this past weekend with friends.</p> <p>"I was pleasantly surprised to see cupping marks. It really speaks to this level of integration we're seeing with many things that are considered complementary medicine," said Perlman, who has tried cupping for back pain and said it gave him relief. </p></blockquote> <p>Did you hear that? Dr. Perlman was happy to see Olympic athletes with cupping marks on them because they were evidence of the popularity of “complementary medicine.” Meanwhile, Dr. Robert Glatter, an ER doc at New York's Lenox Hill Hospital, lays down a load of credulous BS:</p> <blockquote><p> "It causes blood vessels to dilate and increases blood flow," said Glatter, an emergency physician at New York's Lenox Hill Hospital, who is in Rio de Janeiro for the Olympics.</p> <p>The aim of cupping is to relieve any blockages in the flow of energy and blood and lead to better recovery, Glatter explained. </p></blockquote> <p>“Blockages in the flow of energy”? It would appear that Dr. Glatter buys into the prescientific vitalistic thinking at the heart of TCM. One wonders what he would say if he were to be asked specifically what form of “energy” flow is “blocked” and describe a physiological mechanism that doesn’t involve handwaving and appeals to mysticism by which cupping “unblocks” it. One wonders if Dr. Glatter knows he’s spouting pure bullshit. Indeed, while admitting there’s no good evidence that cupping does what its proponents claim it does, Dr. Glatter joins Dr. Perlman in laying down more of the same:</p> <blockquote><p> But both Glatter and Perlman said the ancient therapy isn't scientifically proven to heal anything.</p> <p>"There's no scientific evidence. There are multiple trials out there but no quality evidence. Producing giant welts on the body which basically make you feel better locally but injure local tissue doesn't have any systemic impact," said Glatter. </p></blockquote> <p>Of course, “integrative medicine” physicians like Dr. Perlman are anxious to claim legitimacy for cupping in light of so many Olympic athletes having shown their enthusiasm for the procedure. Perhaps they see potential new business coming their way. Wait. Scratch that. There’s no “maybe” about it:</p> <blockquote><p> If athletes or anyone else in the audience is seeing the alternative therapy and is interested in trying it, they should seek a qualified health expert, said Perlman.</p> <p>"People should be looking for someone trained in traditional medicine and licensed and trained in Chinese medicine and who has graduated from an accredited school," he advised, noting that cupping is usually part of a more comprehensive medical approach, used in combination with other therapies. </p></blockquote> <p>It’s an approach also advocated by another director of “integrative medicine” in another <a href="http://time.com/4443105/cupping-rio-olympics-michael-phelps/">story about Phelps and cupping in TIME Magazine</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> There is a difference between how cupping is practiced in traditional Chinese medicine and how it is used in Western medicine, says Dr. Brent Bauer, director of the Mayo Clinic Complementary and Integrative Medicine Program. Bauer says a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner would likely offer cupping as part of a larger integrative health check, which might include recommendations around nutrition and other health things, and not just as a one-off therapy. “It’s kind of an American phenomena, I think, to consider cupping by itself,” he says.</p> <p>In traditional Chinese medicine, the theory is that cupping can influence the flow of energy or “qi” through the body, says Bauer. If someone’s flow is blocked or stagnant, a practitioner might use cupping to impact the flow. Western practitioners may focus more on what the therapy might be doing to muscles or blood flow. </p></blockquote> <p>Yes, like Duke, the Mayo Clinic has gone all in for quackademic medicine. It has one of the bigger and more prominent “integrative medicine” programs. Be that as it may, it’s amazing how much alike Dr. Perlman and Dr. Bauer sound. It’s also depressing that, even more than Dr. Glatter, Dr. Bauer, who is faculty at one of the most respected academic medical centers in the country—nay, the world!—is spewing vitalistic nonsense as though it were legitimate medicine, with his credulous discussion of “qi.”</p> <p>The list of once proud and science-based academic medical centers that offer cupping is depressingly long. For instance, the <a href="http://wjla.com/news/local/cupping-pain-treatment-offered-at-university-of-maryland--75502">University of Maryland offers it</a>. <a href="http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2011.0791">So does Beth Israel Deaconness</a>. In fact, it’s a pretty good bet that any academic medical center that offers acupuncture and TCM probably offers cupping because cupping is an integral part of TCM. Perhaps the most disturbing and irresponsible media statements on cupping came from the Cleveland Clinic, which, as I’ve described before, has <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/09/23/quackademic-medicine-now-reigns-supreme-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">gone all-in with TCM</a> and “<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/03/02/quackademic-medicine-wildly-successful-at-the-cleveland-clinic/">functional medicine</a>” quackery. Check out the Cleveland Clinic’s Twitter feed:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">.<a href="https://twitter.com/TeamUSA">@TeamUSA</a> sports a different kind of <a href="https://twitter.com/Olympics">@Olympics</a> ring at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rio2016?src=hash">#Rio2016</a>. It's called <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cupping?src=hash">#cupping</a>. Listen as we explain.<a href="https://t.co/dL9CcR1NGh">https://t.co/dL9CcR1NGh</a></p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/762982354897862658">August 9, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Note that this video features a TCM practitioner from the Cleveland Clinic touting the benefits of cupping. The complete video is right here on the <a href="https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2016/08/08/olympic-trend-ancient-chinese-cupping/">Cleveland Clinic media page</a>, which features Jamie Starkey, Lead Acupuncturist, Center for Integrative Medicine:</p> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M3i8GyVyBpg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe><p> Yes, you saw it right here. A major academic medical center features on its media website a video showing one of its own employees, the “Lead Acupuncturist,” administering a quack therapy to a patient and touting its benefits for chronic pain and even asthma. (Yes, you heard that right, asthma.) There’s something wrong here, but unfortunately, the Cleveland Clinic apparently doesn’t see it. It gets worse, though.</p> <p>More disturbing was this Tweet:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en"><a href="https://twitter.com/da2102">@da2102</a> (2 of 2) though other providers in traditional Chinese therapy will use cupping for asthma, GI issues and fatigue</p> <p>— Cleveland Clinic (@ClevelandClinic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClevelandClinic/status/763084536896978944">August 9, 2016</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> Yes, that’s the Cleveland Clinic’s official Twitter account. It’s sort of backing off Starkey’s claim that acupuncture is useful for asthma, while not really backing off. More importantly, in response to numerous requests from other Twitter users for actual scientific evidence supporting the use of cupping, the Cleveland Clinic can’t or won’t provide any. It’s almost as though the Cleveland Clinic knows that what it’s offering in its integrative medicine program is pure quackery but doesn’t care.</p> <p>Sadly, the overall message coming from advocates of “integrative medicine” quackery is as disciplined and consistent as that of any political party and candidate. In this case, it is: When seeking pseudoscientific or prescientific treatments, be very sure that you only utilize a “qualified” and “licensed” practitioner (i.e., someone employed by Dr. Perlman’s program or other “legitimate” academic “integrative medicine” programs). Personally, I like to characterize this ploy as: Come for the cupping. Stay for the “comprehensive” quackery that “integrative medicine” integrates into real medicine.</p> <p>That’s the message. Cupping is basically a gateway to the rest of the quackery integrative medicine “integrates” into real medicine.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Tue, 08/09/2016 - 21:01</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/adam-perlman" hreflang="en">Adam Perlman</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/alex-moroz" hreflang="en">Alex Moroz</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/asthma" hreflang="en">asthma</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cleveland-clinic" hreflang="en">Cleveland Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cupping" hreflang="en">Cupping</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/integrative-medicine" hreflang="en">integrative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mayo-clinic" hreflang="en">Mayo Clinic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/michael-phelps" hreflang="en">Michael Phelps</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/olympics" hreflang="en">Olympics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/rio-2016" hreflang="en">Rio 2016</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/robert-glatter" hreflang="en">Robert Glatter</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/swimming" hreflang="en">swimming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/traditional-chinese-medicine" hreflang="en">traditional Chinese medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340821" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470795738"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In other quack news <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-10/mother-avoid-jail-over-breastfeeding-on-raw-food-diet/7713266">http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-10/mother-avoid-jail-over-breastfeed…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340821&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k14reTEy5lPHaHbtsH68DOFRFwWazPoXsl6upKdxxic"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">GiJoel (not verified)</span> on 09 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340821">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340822" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470795742"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yesterday, I was half tempted to mention that bloodletting still is a valid treatment for hemochromatosis, but honestly, I suspect some of the woo peddlers that have been hanging about would've run with it for their usual plethora of things other than iron overload.</p> <p>As far as physicians offering woo based treatments, should one offer such to me, well, you'll see the fastest running physician in the world. Our conditions are serious and nonsensical mistreatments being offered will not be tolerated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340822&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tS106SyuQWonssq1dE648j7D_t5rA4jo82vWnyDi_lg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wzrd1 (not verified)</span> on 09 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340822">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340823" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470808369"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Asthma. Sure. I could combine cupping with some of those nifty homeopathic asthma cures found on the shelves of various drug stores! No more Big Pharma inhalers for me!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340823&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dxAUzS-GzmKmKos2qNDmzCtATP-xT3Rc0LJaBbI-_oA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ellie (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340823">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340824" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470809677"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I received a letter in the mail yesterday from Memorial Sloan-Kettering inviting me to participate in a clinical trial of acupuncture for insomnia in cancer patients, as if causing pain by sticking needles in me would help me sleep better.</p> <p>I have half a mind to send it back with a nasty note.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340824&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LY6z0FT-kKRHRGvxOs3hRlkBQ5S1KewFRfryhsFu-CY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael Finfer, MD (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340824">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340825" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470809869"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dr Finfer: I would, saying, "How would sticking useless needles into cancer patients help me sleep at night?" :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340825&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6XqoZIVSTZus34mld7AP4HnY2wTd2z_VhVbGq-Saz-c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340825">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340826" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470812187"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The trick is in the language. These quacks talk about how cupping *MIGHT* relax muscles, *MAY* help blood flow. They are admitting that they just don't know, but phrasing it in a way that most people won't read into.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340826&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dIlw7OEt26PAGCpQFfC1_L8-XkMG5yvldmOCbOxUCdM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zach (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340826">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340827" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470812278"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Chinese divers (women’s synchronized) were covered in tape--all over their backs, some on shoulders. Others had it on their ankles. This was a 10 metre board and I realize they hit the water at 30-35 mph, so I can see the wrist braces, but what does atletic tape (at least it was flesh colored) do for the back? I read up here and at the other blog, and couldn’t find much to support it.</p> <p>At least none of them had giant hickeys. Honestly, I can no longer look at Michael Phelps. His greatness is much diminished by his gullibility. I now expect to see cupping offered at mall kiosks along with those Chinese neck massages.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340827&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VwvYyw3W7lT79kqUhN_TJC_L8zHjvuGncD5AgGEVO9E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">darwinslapdog (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340827">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340828" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470813323"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>It causes blood vessels to dilate and increases blood flow</p></blockquote> <p>Prove it, quack. Prove that sucking a gob of flesh into a cup with a relatively thin rim which will result in high contact pressure around that rim does not in fact occlude vessels well above the size of capillaries and actually reduce blood flow. Provide a reasonable hypothesis for how static suction, which might conceivably encourage blood flow "out" of arteries does not prevent blood flow into veins. It can't simultaneously suck from one and blow to the other.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340828&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZoCDfMhZNcAZeAKvA5OhabDhgYnfJKJZtPyC9pQeoZk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340828">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340829" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470813602"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@7 A local news channel did a piece on the cupping, which, IMO, was just a free advertisement for a PT business that offers it. When I went to their website, lo and behold, I found Rock Tape. It's kinesiology tape, which is apparently an ancient Japanese secret. The company charges $10 a body part for taping. Perhaps that's what it was? </p> <p>In addition to making athletes perform better, it also cures all kinds of things:<br /> Achilles tendonitis<br /> • Plantar fasciitis<br /> • Jumpers knee (PFS)<br /> • ACL/MCL issues<br /> • Rotator cuff<br /> • Groin and hamstring pulls<br /> • Lower back issues<br /> • Shin splints<br /> • Tennis and golf elbow<br /> • Pain associated with pregnancy<br /> • Postural correction<br /> I haven't been able to stand up straight in a couple of years. Maybe I need to get taped....after I have the cupping for my asthma.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340829&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sBn8TLevNvVoZR93rwHuP2HX7MgJsjbNxH6B-n6s_p4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ellie (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340829">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340830" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470814025"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#5 MI Dawn<br /> Perhaps Memorial Sloan-Kettering know he's a sadist and would get a kick out of it? That warm feeling as you finish your warm milk and cookies just before going to bed?</p> <p>The level of irrationality that seems to be overtaking the medical profession is not giving <i>me</i> warm feelings. It's making me more sympathetic to Wzrd1's approach.</p> <p>When something like the Mayo Clinic is doing this, it gets scary. </p> <p>Note to self: Check my doctor's clinic website before making any appointments.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340830&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W0ZCw3dTr4BwhHYFvgJEBTlrRiDFhexJHyQ7XTz6JAE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340830">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340831" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470814242"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When my eldest was doing sports (field hockey and softball), she had problems with her kneecap dislocating. I forget the actual diagnosis now; it's been 10+ years. The orthopedist gave her PT, exercises, and taught us to do some specific taping until her muscles were strong enough to keep the kneecap in place. It helped for that purpose, though it was tricky to do. I don't know if it helps for all the reasons listed above, or was a placebo for my daughter.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340831&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YBMsp6H2dC3OnOvwdgmf1vWTQB0S500AVvG70dOwaGY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340831">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340832" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470814471"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I have half a mind to send it back with a nasty note.</p></blockquote> <p>Do it. Tell them they shouldn't be wasting time, money, and manpower on clinical trials of treatments with no plausible mechanism whatsoever.</p> <p>That goes for anything involving qi. In real medicine, terms have specific meanings, and while a layman like me may not always be familiar with a given term, I can ask any physician and be reasonably sure I'll get substantially the same answer as any other physician would give me. Qi, as far as I can tell, does not have a specific definition, so it can mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean. How can we scientifically study what qi allegedly does when the word means different things to different people?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340832&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cc4Byrz0jh1mYiNPJVXBHrUrsKyk04bJ83A5Jz71SlY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340832">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340833" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470814745"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Or e-mail the flyer to me and let me look up the clinical trial. Muhahahahaha!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340833&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Eh1_CqyFPllzRqAjxLGz5hFYsJXGlOaUzYb7dYPtBHE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340833">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340834" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470814749"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Athletes, however, are notoriously superstitious. So it’s not too surprising that Michael Phelps and a lot of other American athletes would embrace cupping, particularly given that the US Olympic Swim Team trainer is clearly a believer.</p></blockquote> <p>The most plausible explanation is that it sucks all the brains out of their heads, thereby making them lighter and more buoyant. </p> <p>It certainly sucks the money out their wallets effectively enough.</p> <blockquote><p>However, physicians, particularly physicians at our greatest academic medical centers, should know better. Unfortunately, they do not, which is a large part of the reason why integrative medicine is flourishing.</p></blockquote> <p>I rest my case. Funny how we never hear alties condemning <em>that</em> corruption in medicine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340834&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OWt_ZjReyhBL1ShgncH9AHA5hrW1JU4618Qs2KbsXpQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">has (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340834">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340835" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470814878"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I don’t know if [taping] helps for all the reasons listed above, or was a placebo for my daughter.</p></blockquote> <p>At least with taping there is a plausible mechanism. Like an emergency splint for a broken bone, it may help stabilize the joint by preventing it from bending too far in a certain direction, which is what a dislocation basically is. I have had occasion to tape certain fingers myself.</p> <p>I'm not sure what taping might do for the back, though. If I thought someone's spine needed it, I wouldn't let her participate in any kind of athletic competition, for reasons that should be obvious.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340835&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D_L8MqI6zdoSOxiU288sXHewfO_8yJ-5fy5c9uHLSZ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340835">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340836" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470815791"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Kinesio tape is Ancient Egyptian Medicin (AEM) and here's proofs: <a href="http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mummys-ghost-kharis-mummy-lon-chaney-jr.jpg">http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mummys-ghost-khar…</a> . How can you argue against something that works so well that it makes the dead walk?</p> <p>Playing high school football I remember after an ankle sprain getting my ankle taped for support. That was nothing like a single piece of this silly kinesio tape. It was much more like a cast, requiring a lot of tape (foam and sticky tape) to basically keep my ankle from inverting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340836&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Skk6PIWbj2UOavjJFvsPUgyH_qe1MXWb_2AmjEn87sQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340836">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340837" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470817356"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Duke Integrative Medicine...appropriate acronym.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340837&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="amJ87RIU9lYInUBdsSIJAQ4EDHP4MK9wb2i0Ix-N2nM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Scott K (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340837">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340838" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470818269"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's disheartening to see the quackiness legitimized by real medical institutions. The Duke Center for Integrative Medicine (like any good center for legitimizing nonsense) <a href="https://www.dukeintegrativemedicine.org/about/meet-the-team/michael-cohen-jd-mba-mfa/">even has a lawyer</a> teaching a course called "Legal Issues in Integrative Medicine" which seems designed get around those pesky consumer protection laws.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340838&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zjh8uZPbwhBRe3xJLlsK3Kk-Sc1vAGO9Se6GFry9UjA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340838">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340839" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470820863"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Duke Integrative Medicine…appropriate acronym.</p></blockquote> <p>And it would be particularly appropriate to have the Duke University Marching Band perform at any and all of the center's celebrations.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340839&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M7PfB4WpN_Q8VJLWymxdfnK-EuUgGGzOIBdtLigSdcI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340839">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340840" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470821207"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As a recent participant, I believe that cupping caused increased pain- I found it difficult to wait the ten minutes or so until the practitioner returned to remove the bloody, miserable things.</p> <p>Perhaps that's the point: the NEW pains ( caused by cupping) distracts you away from feeling the older pain which prompted you to seek out help.</p> <p>Perhaps distraction is the secret of woo in general.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340840&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QdtqAm948bDP26SkPwTGS8dGpzbdv3o9OWyQYdxytfY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340840">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340841" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470821277"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That should be: the NEW pain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340841&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GMr5_MhxIhgL2P9R-gXISzONq4g0Y6pfn8VSuIhTinc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340841">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340842" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470821411"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Honestly, I can no longer look at Michael Phelps. His greatness is much diminished by his gullibility.</p></blockquote> <p>I know what you mean. What was even worse was his grotesque display upon winning the 200 Fly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340842&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4WaMJCWF8ziY3kacH-KnsXbrjJ0_HmqC7-1lTm2_oGM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340842">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340843" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470823554"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Believe it or not, good old Mikey is still selling cupping supplies ( Natural News/ Store) : a set of four costs 37.95 USD and the gift pack- which includes oil- is 85.95 USD.</p> <p>I wonder the oil is for? ( I ask incredulously)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340843&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IMYw5Z1kvz6h-B480QJyTAXc8qseh0SUYeVU-zwYSD4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340843">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340844" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470827165"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>After many years of dedicated, in-depth research, I am now ready to publish my results. All the work I have done, all the analysis and measurement and hard graft, all can now be revealed.</p> <p>Count yourself most fortunate, my friends, for here is the truth, the absolute truth which encapsulates all that any intelligent and conscientious person must know about qi.</p> <p>Are you ready to hear it?<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> Steady yourselves.<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> Here we go...<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> THE TRUTH ABOUT QI</p> <p>It's an incredibly useful word to know when playing Scrabble.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340844&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MfSEqk7HuDv5v0Xx_CYSCZvVeDV1g8ZZUVNNu3_O5Sk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Woods (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340844">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340845" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470827568"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Doing a search now for other quotes from employees of academic integrative medicine programs, I was impressed to see that Barrie Cassileth of Sloan-Kettering was strongly critical of cupping (while still endorsing acupuncture) in <a href="http://www.wsj.com/articles/mets-latch-on-to-cupping-therapy-and-have-the-marks-to-prove-it-1407291031">a 2014 Wall Street Journal interview</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> There's absolutely zero evidence that cupping has any kind of positive role in medicine," said Barrie Cassileth, the chief of integrative medicine service at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York. She said the post-cupping bruises result simply from the suction on the skin, which may be more harmful to circulation than helpful.</p> <p>"I cannot conceive of any benefit except a psychological benefit," said Cassileth, who has written books on alternative treatments and noted that, unlike cupping, holistic therapies such as acupuncture have been proved effective in medical tests. </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340845&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sqM5PH0MzxE1emrVzIbpSGiJbEz63rV62WhMmJQu99Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340845">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340846" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470827654"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Perhaps that’s the point: the NEW pains ...</p></blockquote> <p>I suspect that is exactly what happens. As I posted in the old thread, I could believe that cupping has the same effect as using a counterirritant, with added theatre that just isn't there when rubbing in some Bengay. It's the same sort of thing you get if you mash your fingers when your foot hurts.<br /> Is it on the continuum to self-mutilation?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340846&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZHEgJBPLibpc7xOPTzxdQxB26FCjCWoX-JeptfKv5e0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340846">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470828182"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Look at the pretty acupuncturist demonstrate the 'cupping'. Look at the trauma of that lifted flesh:</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw3a6pL6u4E">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw3a6pL6u4E</a> </p> <p>Blood stagnation. Whatever, it looks brutal -- and now all the kids will be doing it; It could be a nepharious world government plot.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WpDZdeSkEyjBimfaoRW4Z2Q-q-ebQL_OlELb9TPO938"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470828214"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cupping-olympic-athletes-michael-phelps-1.3713237"> A new article </a>at the CBC website: <i>'Very little evidence to support it': Why some scientists give cupping a poor score</i>.<br /> I haven't looked at the comments yet. CBC recently went to a no-psuedonym policy, so many of the more intelligent commenters have departed (while many that remain have obvious pseudonyms).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1340848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="94PzUNBjBV3LC7nlKy3FjvzTUlUqMfUff2fOig5SiNM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 10 Aug 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1464/feed#comment-1340848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1340849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1470828389"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div c