Labor relations https://scienceblogs.com/ en Starve Anyone Who Protests, and their Kids and their Little Dogs Too! https://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/2011/03/24/starve-anyone-who-protests <span>Starve Anyone Who Protests, and their Kids and their Little Dogs Too!</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/538423/buried_provision_in_house_gop_bill_would_cut_off_food_stamps_to_entire_families_if_one_member_strikes/">From Alternet (actual Bill text at site), it turns out that House Republicans have a plan to prevent fighting for labor rights - hunger!:</a> Maybe they've got firehoses too! And attack dogs, that would be good. Or maybe they could just shoot them - that's an old favorite way to disrupt strikes!</p> <p>Much of the bill is based upon verifying that those who receive food stamps benefits are meeting the federal requirements for doing so. However, one section buried deep within the bill adds a startling new requirement. The bill, if passed, would actually cut off all food stamp benefits to any family where one adult member is engaging in a strike against an employer....</p> <p>The bill also includes a provision that would exempt households from losing eligibility, "if the household was eligible immediately prior to such strike, however, such family unit shall not receive an increased allotment as the result of a decrease in the income of the striking member or members of the household."</p> <p>Well, isn't that a charming way to prevent protest, eh? Please call your congressperson, and draw their attention to this bullshit in no uncertain terms, ASAP, folks. Publicize this everywhere - this can't pass unnoticed! Hat tip to Emma who spotted it, btw!!!</p> <p>Sharon</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a></span> <span>Thu, 03/24/2011 - 11:21</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/food-stamps" hreflang="en">food stamps</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor" hreflang="en">labor</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor-relations" hreflang="en">Labor relations</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/unions" hreflang="en">unions</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883241" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300981208"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ick. Yeah, that's seriously disgusting. Oddly, I JUST came here from leaving a fairly biting comment for my governor; Mark Dayton. Democrat. He's in the news today because he gave a speech where he was actually somewhat heated about Republicans cutting budgets where people get hurt. This after signing legislation allowing companies to just write their own environmental impact statements, and another allowing Minnesota to start talking about building new nuclear power plants... and on, and on. He's given the Repugnicans everything they've whined for- so why should they listen to him?</p> <p>The Big Bammer is in the same situation. If he wants to keep ANY of his "base", he really needs to start at least THREATENING to use his veto. This would be the perfect place. "I will veto any legislation with that language included in it." he could say. And we could start moving on. Ah, but will he? sigh.</p> <p>It's time; REALLY time, for the common folk to start using our veto. Also known as the "general strike" - and the "sick out". I had kind of hoped that would happen in Wisconsin; but we're still just "hoping" they'll be nice, and responsible- all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. You know, if 50-70% of all of Wisconsin's "public employees" just called in sick next week; influenza would be fine - some of the people on both sides of the equation might have to remember that yes, Virginia, if all the workers are pushed to the edges of what is humanly tolerable - that would be bad, even for the Owners.</p> <p>The Owners have found that they can play chicken with the people- and we just fold up. We have to find ways to not fold. And yeah- they'll all hurt. So, in case you haven't figured it out, does folding.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883241&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XPS2bSY7LZB5gF5WMe78VBcGmBETLomJSSrxlBJ2YzE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883241">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883242" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300982285"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The Owners have found that they can play chicken with the people- and we just fold up. We have to find ways to not fold. And yeah- they'll all hurt. So, in case you haven't figured it out, does folding.</p></blockquote> <p>The problem with betting against the House is that they can afford to hold their breaths longer than you can. Hungry kids and evictions seriously undermine the will to continue.</p> <p>Which means that any plan to seriously oppose the PTB have to include preparations to survive long enough to win. I think Sharon has written about some activities that would fit into such plans.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883242&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S7jkFGr8cSX_73bTTo_M87F5Uq4sCn5v2nE8uu5ZUG8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">D. C. Sessions (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883242">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883243" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300983375"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>DC - that's part of the game of chicken. Do THEY know they can hold their breath longer? You are, I'm pretty sure, giving many of "them" too much credit.</p> <p>And- something we need to know, daily; is that "we" are already dying. That news is hidden now; and when it can't be, it's turned, quickly, so that it's still "all about me" news; not any, like, big tragedy, or something.</p> <p>My current fave: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/5sqyaou">http://tinyurl.com/5sqyaou</a></p> <p>Synopsis: town fires 50% of employees, because town pension fund is impossible; one employee immediately commits suicide; News headline is about how mayor is furious some one took an embarrassing photo of him. </p> <p>Suicide? Huh? nonsense.</p> <p>We. are. already. dying.</p> <p>Time to choose to make some difference as we die, at least; as Huy Pham tried to do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883243&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8-zcTVJG4PkKXjWAWuJiRLakZKYKYMvz9qrnhtXxqik"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883243">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883244" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300984322"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Do THEY know they can hold their breath longer? You are, I'm pretty sure, giving many of "them" too much credit.</p></blockquote> <p>Obviously FSVO "they." However, the wealthy almost by definition aren't living hand to mouth. That particular power disparity -- e.g. offering a single mother less than a single man because she has fewer options -- is standard operating procedure for them.</p> <p>It's very, very rare now (esp. with so many jobs overseas anyway) for a company to be so seriously threatened in the short term by a labor strike that it's not worth holding out until the strikers run out of food, get evicted, etc. Especially since there is no shortage of strikebreakers.</p> <p>My crystal ball (cheap second-hand model, not gently used) tells me that this time around is going to be like the first time around: the issue won't be determined by hitting them in their pocketbooks, but by building a popular consensus among voters that starving children and using National Guard troops to break strikes is morally intolerable.</p> <p>Then again, I'm an incurable optimist.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883244&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s8mHhAC9DtsJwI8BE6dFe1-M3_IDZC8Mc1rejW6TVGk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">D. C. Sessions (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883244">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883245" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300986111"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Then again, I'm an incurable optimist."</p> <p>Ah, humor! :-) Always welcome these days.</p> <p>Though I find myself these days tending more in the direction of whoever it was who said: "I greatly prefer optimists, myself. Pessimists are much harder to deal with; you have to actually go out and kill them, one by one. The optimists are much easier; they usually have killed themselves off, long before you can get around to it."</p> <p>One of them old sci-fi writers, I think.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883245&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aNeN4xOe-cNbTHHk2o-kK87LeOKt4SMPpOi6F2WfxXg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883245">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883246" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300986337"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hmmm... what is optimism in this case?</p> <p>You're thinking that this time around we might get by without dead children. I consider myself an optimist because I think that a few dead children might actually turn things around.</p> <p>The alternative that I see is that we end up serfs -- and frankly would give that better odds than either of the first two.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883246&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="850qCOa30nF2v3d1kBf5pSCOF3GfNMO1UfL0V-7KWyg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">D. C. Sessions (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883246">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883247" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300986772"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You actually motivated me to write my congressman.</p> <p>Based on his past voting record, he'll laugh and ignore it, but I tried.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883247&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fW5QOVVtwkDwXRPojc1UIvtXGoAoUHYvubZJxt4cHZ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">abadidea (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883247">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883248" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300987777"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Every time I think the Repubs can't act any more like evil, cartoon villains than they already have, they prove me wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883248&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2xNTamIIM0r42JrgQ7CcC_ETxcr8ClHtEsUFQt3-g5o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DerelictHat (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883248">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883249" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300989838"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"We. are. already. dying.<br /> Time to choose to make some difference as we die, "</p> <p>"You're thinking that this time around we might get by without dead children. I consider myself an optimist because I think that a few dead children might actually turn things around"</p> <p>uh, what? seems like one, or both, of you aren't really hearing/reading the other...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883249&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pOTSKHigtFZ6mL8lO4_HG9Sy-zrDQ2gNYrLKqKd8z5g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ranklebiter (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883249">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883250" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300991488"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ranklebiter, I think that Greenpa and I are more on the same page than may appear. We're just arguing fine points of body count and the coverage they get -- or don't.</p> <p>Bear in mind that PR makes all the difference. We tolerate ten times as many deaths from drunken driving [1] every year as died at the WTC -- but one is business as usual and the other was a national disaster so traumatic that we're spending hundreds of billions a year, many of our civil rights, thousands of dead soldiers and many, many more dead brown people in other countries on the shaky premise that doing so will reduce the chance of another 9/11.</p> <p>Dying children are business as usual. Turning families out onto the streets in a way that can be pinned -- on camera, please -- to the callous actions of a political party <i>might</i> have a different impact. <i>Might</i>.</p> <p>For comparison I present to you that Arizona has been callous to the malnutrition, lack of medical care, etc. of poor kids for decades. Business as usual. On the other hand, shutting off funding for organ transplants gets in the headlines and manages to stay there, and people actually get motivated by it.</p> <p>Is that clearer?</p> <p>[1] Or firearm-related deaths for that matter.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883250&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m-GNPwHMRDzpApJX4oEmuXZgsRy921h5oE2MpvtdNW0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">D. C. Sessions (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883250">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883251" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1300995886"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I hate to sound uncaring, but seems to me there's a difference (or should be) between someone who voluntarily gives up his income (by striking) vs. someone who's INvoluntarily out of work. I'm just saying ......</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883251&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eneeeKzKZ8AiVKV_sQGatys0kzxBpjfzz9u-JerMqPQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Thor Skog (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883251">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883252" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301010308"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yeah, I had seen this via a Facebook friend's post. This really sucks frankly. </p> <p>While I *do* see Thor's point about the voluntary nature of a parent giving up income and thereby sticking the taxpayer with the feed bill for his/her kids, the idea that government is growing even larger in its nebulous web of information "intelligence" and control, this time in order to check out one's political and employment practices and advocated positions, and then blackmailing us into submission, in my mind, way overrules the first concern of unloading the kids' meal bill on the rest of us.</p> <p>Likewise in Wisconsin, while I understood the need to cut expenses and get public employees to pay more of their own retirement such as I have to pay, to use the opportunity of strife to also remove collective bargaining rights, was and is likewise too much. </p> <p>We're all going to have to give up some things, but giving up the right to at least speak out politically is NOT one such thing to be forfeited.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883252&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ot8QfTCLL9404TxmB5RW0MHS111EjG-hWWHOoyewD0U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stephen B. (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883252">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883253" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301019223"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ain't it ironic that the Supreme Court said a year or two ago that corporate spending to destroy a political candidate is protected free speech. But workers speaking by withholding their labor get no protection according to the current run of screeds against worker rights and organized labor. Gee, if this effort succeeds, we'll be back to the 1880's! The aristocratic rich in league with state legislatures, demonizing any common man who dares even a whimper of protest. Brave new world, huh. Frankly, with Fox News out there, I see no way to stop it. Anybody else interested in just getting the hell out of Dodge?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883253&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BQNg7rekeArEMwc3K0bx_rayVTio54PUztA-YYemhc4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael C. (not verified)</span> on 24 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883253">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="78" id="comment-1883254" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301037631"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thor, given that labor activism is just about the only option for many workers, if you say "if you strike you starve" you essentially allow employers to set the terms - no matter what those terms are. People don't generally go on strike because they prefer not working. They don't try and live on just food stamps because that's so much more awesome than having an income that pays for toilet paper *and* food (remember, food stamps pay only for food). The idea that a striker voluntarily gives up his income, rather than does it because of unjust conditions seems strange to me. No one wants to strike, generally speaking - that's a last resort strategy.</p> <p>Sharon</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883254&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VfhRxucRMCXMteeaqeN5icrFzzNo4A_fomSdUYoCGC0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a> on 25 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883254">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/sastyk"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/sastyk" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883255" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301043369"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Stephen B. | March 25, 2011 12:45 AM:</p> <blockquote><p> Likewise in Wisconsin, while I understood the need to cut expenses and get public employees to pay more of their own retirement such as I have to pay, to use the opportunity of strife to also remove collective bargaining rights, was and is likewise too much. </p></blockquote> <p>The Wisconsin legislature gave away $140 million in corporate subsidies - to corporations already making plentiful profits. Then they came up $137 million short. Had they not given away citizen's money to corporations, they would have had a surplus. A <i>small</i> surplus, but nonetheless, a surplus. The need to "cut expenses and get public employees to pay more of their own retirement" was manufactured. We got a reminder of this when the legislature divorced the elimination of collective bargaining rights from the budget bill, and passed it as a separate bill. It had as much to do with saving money as Ronald Reagan's tax cuts.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883255&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FcZb-AtaIj9dWAP9utAI-g9wAFiWhKHRDnUayupzqOc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">llewelly (not verified)</span> on 25 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883255">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883256" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301044579"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>~~~"Freedom is Slavery"~~~</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883256&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tfJ0F1bAkZbYVIbxNKduvALjCuoupTO_RnT9v4z5T5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">4D (not verified)</span> on 25 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883256">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883257" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301047717"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Nice. Well, isn't that just "special" to quote the church lady from SNL. (I know I'm showing my age.) Not that it will do any good, in my very Republican state, but I'll put out the word. I just keep trying to encourage people of all income brackets so grow something of their own and give out extra seeds w/ instructions to get them started. Working in social services, everyday is a reminder that our country spends less and less to care for the least among us.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883257&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7t1G_wNOyjAfJFzgJ0j6mKxmOIEDdAA9PoCdsKEBQzY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nena (not verified)</span> on 25 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883257">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883258" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301050578"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While I agree generally with post and comments, I believe you are missing a significant aspect of the situation: tactics and strategy. The bill as a whole is offensive. The inclusion of one particularly unconstitutional segment distracts from that. House Democrats and the White House can spend all their energy on a "compromise" that gets Republicans to generously remove the offending strike clause, and then the rest of the heinous bill passes.</p> <p>Arch-conservatives are playing a shell game with us. The only answer is to stop ponying up to play.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883258&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-xYd0Ebj198JPEn3_4DUKeD0TgCFkmM1mUgn4vuD0H4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christina (not verified)</span> on 25 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883258">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883259" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301053082"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Christina: astute.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883259&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3QOjcNld0ugK7yRmJC-7Do_mV3J_HWti9KaBTScoU0w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 25 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883259">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883260" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301130469"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sharon; I ran across this on the BBC today:</p> <p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9435803.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/943580…</a></p> <p>It is, unfortunately, a documentation of how, and where, this precise situation can be even worse. Just add a little ancient racism; eg:</p> <p>"And now the council has made welfare payments dependent on keeping your house and yard clean.</p> <p>"Officials come poking around, checking the toilets and bathrooms, he says.</p> <p>"One of his neighbours lost his unemployment money because they found dog excrement in the yard, he adds."</p> <p>There seems to be more than enough ugly to go around.</p> <p>I think I really need to go write an upbeat post for my blog. All this is getting to me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883260&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HxEZWBShbRJ0sg9_I_F05b94ZU9YncyLqb7ge4-KE9E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 26 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883260">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883261" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301174622"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Over the past few years I have constantly been unable to fathom Democrats and the media who so consistently treat Republicans as people with real ideas, as a party with whom the Democrats should work and try to reach compromises. Especially true of the big kahuna - Obama - who works so hard at being a nice guy and working with the GOP.</p> <p>In fact the Republican Party is purely evil: their only constituency is the rich and super-rich. They are anti-science and thoroughly hypocritical. These points are so easy to see, yet the Dem's and media consistently ignore them. </p> <p>I would give anything to see Democratic leaders and the Pres. Obama open a full-fledged war against the Republicans. But the only people they are willing to fight are the brown people in the mideast.</p> <p>By the way, I have no particular love for the Democrats. Most of them have sold their souls for the sake of corporate political contributions. Few of them really ever listen to and act on behalf of the public. When is the last time you have heard a Democrat utter the words "poverty" and "the poor"? Or show any real concern for civil rights?</p> <p>Bob Herbert's last New York Times column this morning pretty much summed the sad state of this country. Politics ain't worth a damn at the national level, and becoming less so at the state level. The revolution - if it ever comes - will have to be purely local. </p> <p>Yeah at this point I am purely cynical and angry. What do you expect? I live in Wisconsin.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883261&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8qLv8wKaHg1vE5mqv3tfJ-QvZ7ojl4UTyDWvb2z4Z_c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DennisP (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883261">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883262" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301182828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sharon,</p> <p>I have to differ, here. </p> <p>Someone choosing to strike is choosing to bully and often use aggression, hostility, and threat of damage or injury - terror, in other words - to attack a tyrannical opponent, the employer. Strikers choose to penalize their employer by denying the ability to produce profit - or product or service to the waiting customers.</p> <p>A striker is unemployed for a time that is expected to be brief, and is absolutely, unequivocally, a personal choice. We don't provide food stamps for vacations (paid or unpaid), and usually not for sick days.</p> <p>In modern America, we have too many lawyers advertising their services to believe there are still any employers around that are clinically, technically, and criminally tyrants to their work force.</p> <p>When someone choose to not show up for work, it should be the employer that decides if there will be a job waiting any time in the future.</p> <p>Anything else? I call it terrorism, intimidation, and to a protection racket. No, I am not big on unions. Unions as a rule do nothing to improve productivity, reduce the cost of doing business, or increase service to the community. Unless, that is, you are selling union bosses a new golf course.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883262&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sFXjwX4xECkqkSxtiFX8rI9zGG3ZXex5HMMu5cLyyfE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brad K. (not verified)</a> on 26 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883262">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883263" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301222607"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Brad "In modern America, we have too many lawyers advertising their services to believe there are still any employers around that are clinically, technically, and criminally tyrants to their work force."</p> <p>wow. We so do not live on the same planet.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883263&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hhKMa7BKZfHzLGg7gyUBWzfthnzrewmInNzn0vdBiGc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 27 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883263">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883264" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301224903"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Brad, let me try to soften that slightly. You and I often agree, but that statement really caught me completely off guard. Seriously- it's not compatible with what I consider my physical reality. All I can think is that you cannot BE an employee; nor can you have any - or at least none you talk intimately with. All my employees, past and present, have had genuine horror stories to relate; comparable to Dickens' worst. And all from today.</p> <p>I'm still boggling; but I don't think you're icky. I'm just, all, like "what!!" :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883264&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="alVaenXA6-2DM8SwOg-IYKrs4ka4RtzMEUP-BPtTQaA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://littlebloginthebigwoods.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenpa (not verified)</a> on 27 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883264">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1883265" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1301237436"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The use of the strike, the sacrifices made by union members of the past, and the hard-won right of employees to bargain collectively on their own behalf, are the only reason the lawyers above have any employment law to cite.</p> <p>Any state passing a law such as the one cited above, in stipulating that prospective strikers should be punitively threatened by the withdrawal of food from their children's mouths, effectively positions that state on the side of employers in any dispute. </p> <p>Employers do not need to be a collective in order to be already holding the balance of power vis-a-vis their employees - the current jobless rate puts every employer in the driver's seat, and provides each with a credible threat (whether implicit or explicit) to use against their own employees. </p> <p>Now, more than ever, employees need laws that even that playing field and do not disempower them, reversing past gains. Brad's suggestion that it is somehow illegitimate for employees to bargain on their own behalf is absolutely abhorrent.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1883265&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l2r3uValq68jIaeKx4DFre1t2pdmaiRWsqf84uD7adY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Scotlyn (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1883265">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/casaubonsbook/2011/03/24/starve-anyone-who-protests%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:21:34 +0000 sastyk 63625 at https://scienceblogs.com Even the Invisible Hand of the Market Doesn't Want to Pick Beans https://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/2010/09/27/i-want-a-tomato-picked-by-an-a <span>Even the Invisible Hand of the Market Doesn&#039;t Want to Pick Beans</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You've probably already seen Stephen Colbert's farmworker testimony, but just in case you haven't, it is awesome. </p> <object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc1e6a52" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=10,0,0,0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" /><param name="FlashVars" value="launch=39343087&amp;width=420&amp;height=245" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="opaque" /><embed name="msnbc1e6a52" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" width="420" height="245" flashvars="launch=39343087&amp;width=420&amp;height=245" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 420px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">breaking news</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">world news</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">news about the economy</a></p> <p>The human-fruit hybrids seem like a good idea to me.</p> <p>Sharon</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a></span> <span>Mon, 09/27/2010 - 02:21</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/colbert" hreflang="en">colbert</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor-relations" hreflang="en">Labor relations</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/farmworkers" hreflang="en">farmworkers</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor-relations" hreflang="en">Labor relations</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880976" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285573146"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Stephen Colbert has brass ones. Good on him for getting these issues some well deserved attention!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880976&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KtrlMCFmtgfBH1JXNlJ2c_7QrUgl2mkiiM0nnGbpi5s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.gardenatrix.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gardenatrix (not verified)</a> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880976">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880977" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285580933"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Make the earth waist-high!" LOL</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880977&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zK6sbhHSoADntPpRbW4oNVh7yG8IKzerrnw2wG9w--U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880977">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880978" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285588240"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Despite economy, Americans don't want farm work</i></p> <p><i>VISALIA, Calif.âAs the economy tanked during the past two years, a debate has raged over whether immigrants are taking jobs that Americans want. Here, amid the sweltering vineyards of the largest farm state, the answer is no.</i></p> <p><i>Most Americans simply don't apply for jobs harvesting fruits and vegetables in California, where one of every eight people is out of work, according to government data for a federal seasonal farmworker program analyzed by The Associated Press.</i></p> <p><a href="http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/09/27/despite_economy_americans_dont_want_farm_work/?p1=Well_Business_links">http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/09/27/despite_economy_amer…</a></p> <p>Beyond the story, and on another note, while we can always use a good laugh, I must admit that I don't really think much of Colbert addressing a congressional committee. It kind of reminds me of the time when Sen. James Inhofe invited author and medical doctor Michael Crichton to "testify" simply because of the latter's novel, <i>State of Fear</i>. Congress can do without otherwise unqualified celebrities hawking their causes I think. The line between government and entertainment is already too blurry for me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880978&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H8tM_rkgBcuyAfSec6_kM19KO7TrP4OXKmaT31GCL6M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stephen B. (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880978">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880979" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285589591"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My first exposure to Colbert (we don't have a TV). Good on him for addressing the issues, but I have to say, if this is indicative of his humor, hard to imagine how he's become such a star.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880979&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Lmw04RJekPXlkVLgrXJF9JQQV3mlNZy2kWpXMcXkmbA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ben (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880979">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880980" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285593203"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I disagree that it's inappropriate for Colbert to testify before Congress. The idea that Colbert is just an entertainer is simply false. He is an entertainer, true, but he's a lot more than that, and he knows it. Further, just as history teaches, it's the fool who can tell the truth. We need people like Colbert who are in a position to speak truth to power in a way that no congressperson can, and with more attention than any actual migrant farmworker ever could. There is genuine *value* in this. Our nation has a sort of "expert fetish", and the assumption seems to be that anyone who is not an expert has no right to speak on a subject. Colbert is an American citizen, and as such has as much right as any one of us to testify before Congress. But I'll happily let him take my place because he's better at it than I would be, and he'll get people to pay attention.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880980&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s8_qtj3JTAR6gKOHuydySKSm91CZQ3HSfvZFe4tREVk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://adaptinginplace.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robyn M. (not verified)</a> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880980">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880981" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285595182"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So it was a good thing that we had a novelist testify about Global Warming?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880981&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="52WfKFXzgJJZ8S8wisckrSqL2aNr0MuqMJMY1et5_fM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stephen B. (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880981">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880982" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285596386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound so nasty. I'm just asking :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880982&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KGVEriaiWeNf-3NZpErlYiyn3SWEnmcwkMGqnqPNWqY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stephen B. (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880982">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="78" id="comment-1880983" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285598171"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Something like 10% of the US population gets their main source of news from Colbert and The Daily Show. I'm not aware of that being true about Michael Crichton.</p> <p>Besides, congress has activists testify all the time - the reason you shouldn't have the late, unlamented Crichton testify is that he was an idiot, not that he was a celebrity.</p> <p>Sharon</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880983&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GepxF7bERRDjxWtStXnDDGMssKASQWhMu3mn8HGbWWI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880983">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/sastyk"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/sastyk" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880984" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285599044"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Stephen: no worries, it's hard to get tone right on comments.</p> <p>On your question, sure, why not? He's apparently got enough to say, and enough people willing to listen, that it was worth their time to let him testify. I mean, he didn't hide who he was or anything, did he? Did he claim to be a climatologist? I don't know what his testimony actually was, or why they thought that the person who wrote X book was worth listening to, but why should I let someone else decide that for me? </p> <p>I'm actually a big fan of letting people like novelists, back hoe workers, tv personalities, and whomever else wants to, to have their voices heard by Congress. I'm *not* a big fan of people who lie or implicitly lie about their credentials, like Dr. Laura, and perhaps one could make a similar argument about Creighton in this case. But that's a different argument than "He's a novelist, why does he get to talk about climate change to important people?" </p> <p>There's a different problem that I'm far more worried about, which is our population (including Congress's) possible inability to distinguish between the testimony of a climatologist and a novelist. I think the testimonies of both are worthwhile for their own reasons, but confusing them is an issue, and one that probably many people are susceptible to. However, the way to fix this is not to cater to it; this is a problem about the lack of basic skills in critical thinking. I don't want other people deciding for me who is "appropriate" to hear on any issue. That's a big enough problem already with the MSM being gatekeepers of information for us. I want to hear whomever has something to say, and then *have the skills myself* to make educated decisions about it. I don't think most of our population has this set of skills, and that's a real problem. It's a problem I want to fix, rather than gloss over by carefully selecting only the "right" voices to hear on any issue.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880984&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WJnSSZ4etaGtSk-1rdG12FCAKmdQmWwbmBpu-kwSJYQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://a" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robyn M. (not verified)</a> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880984">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880985" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285605173"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, considering that it was Senator Inhofe who invited Michael Crichton to testify, that can only be called ridiculous. Consider the source.</p> <p>My two pennies' worth.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880985&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_pKXbq_IqQGmGDumRBsDUqzp2sK7EUGijeFuFlcMU0c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://thetrilliumpatch.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Don (not verified)</a> on 27 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880985">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880986" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285772805"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Regarding the main issue..farm labor jobs. I live in south Florida and am working on creating a large potager style garden. I found that I needed help breaking ground, moving soil, leveling the ground,etc. the husband and I work long hours...any way, I desperately needed help.<br /> I t took me forever to find it.. like almost a year.<br /> You would be surprised how many landscape guys, handymen,etc told us it was too much work.<br /> they didn't even offer a bid. Just " no"<br /> The ones interested wanted to use a bobcat, but I' m not looking for destruction.<br /> this is an area approximate 1500 sq ft. Large but certainly NOT a farm.<br /> Just this week we hired the 20 yr old unemployed son of a neighbor. He's doing a great job, but his<br /> father bid the job for him and picks him up every morning and checks on him several times a day.<br /> not sure I would be lucky enough to have his help if it weren't for his dad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880986&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6AGIdJPwmkoPOYONWiWtGo16gZ3YQZOU9-3uAjEHlPI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Casey (not verified)</span> on 29 Sep 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880986">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880987" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1285920171"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Robyn, thank you for your comment about why Colbert is/was a good witness. I was having the same reaction as Stephen. </p> <p>I have to agree with him on one point - the ground is much too far down! I actually envy the squatting and bending ability of people who can work down there, immigrant or other!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880987&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FyMthT9bTFonZAk0O6hx-h9_kbzVPK-6ApRyx6vig9M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">curiousalexa (not verified)</span> on 01 Oct 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880987">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1880988" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1289005869"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>i want to work</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1880988&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AyRlZFvrW83tJHVB-Z8l3_FpQOc0j57U778_WZPfoKk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Leo Q. Hornido (not verified)</span> on 05 Nov 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1880988">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/casaubonsbook/2010/09/27/i-want-a-tomato-picked-by-an-a%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 27 Sep 2010 06:21:37 +0000 sastyk 63484 at https://scienceblogs.com One Hand in a Goat, the Other on a Conference Call https://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/2010/07/23/one-hand-in-a-goat-the-other-o <span>One Hand in a Goat, the Other on a Conference Call</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/Bronx%20Zoo%2C%20etc%20397.JPG"><img alt="Bronx Zoo, etc 397.JPG" src="http://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/assets_c/2010/07/Bronx Zoo, etc 397-thumb-400x300-53523.jpg" width="400" height="300" class="mt-image-center" style="text-align: center; display: block; margin: 0 auto 20px;" /></a></p> <p>Yesterday at 3pm EST, I was part of a critical stage of labor negotiations between SEED Media and Science Bloggers, and I'm happy to report that through the sole grace of my diplomatic skills, the strike was resolved. There were some other folks there too, but I cannot tell a lie - it was your Blogiste who saved the day, got Science Blogs back on track and came up with a critical strategy for making us better, faster, more relevant and bionic.</p> <p>Or, I would have, really, if I hadn't had my hand up to my wrist in a goat's vagina. I was totally on the conference call - for the first 15 minutes. I think I may actually have said a word, or even three - I know I said "Yes, I'm here." But I was kind of thinking about Arava, my little doe that went into labor five days early that morning. And just as everyone was discussing strategic communications, my husband came racing over, miming "get your ass off that conference call and into the barn right now." I mimed back "Now? Are you absolutely sure?" He was sure, and the gesture used to indicate that left no doubt. </p> <p>I had a brief dilemma - is it more polite to announce while your CEO is speaking about corporate strategy "I've got to go deliver a baby goat right now" or is it more polite to simply hang up? I didn't have time to check Miss Manners, so I went with the hang up as faster. </p> <p>I know, I know, you folks are disappointed in me. A really good apocalyptic prophetess of doom/labor negotiator/farm chick would have taken the phone into the barn, calmly participating in the conference call, offering up excellent ideas, while also quietly delivering the goat. I'm totally sure I could have done it. But we were hamstrung by a critical technology failure - the cordless doesn't have signal in the barn. That was the only consideration, though. </p> <p>Oh, and maybe I thought a little about the fact that Arava was bellowing pretty much like I did when I was pushing my babies out, my kids were asking "what is that gooey stuff...is that the baby?" and Eric and Phil were worrying about what to do, and that I'm prone to yelling things like "Holy fuck!" if something goes wrong that might be taken amiss, during a discussion of SEED's finances.</p> <p>It turns out that Arava, who is small and a little younger than I'd like (we also had a critical technology failure - the fence - when getting the girls knocked up) had a mispresentation - a baby goat is supposed to come out diving, with head and two hoofs forward. Unfortunately, Arava had two difficulties. First of all, her baby was the single largest Nigerian Dwarf baby I've ever seen. The second is that one of her hoofs was folded back under her.</p> <p>The traditional strategy for dealing with this problem is to push the head and hooves back into the birth canal a little bit and unfold the bent hoof, sending the baby through in the proper position. But since this was actually my first mispresentation, and she was coming fast by then, I screwed up - I didn't realize what the positioning was until the baby's head was out and she was already breathing. At that point, you can no longer shove them back in for obvious reasons. So I had to rearrange her feet while the rest of the baby was hanging out, which can't have been pleasant for my goat - the only consolation being that leaving her in was worse (I really, really remember that stage of birth myself, in which the only thing worse than getting on with it is not getting on with it, and thus had a profound sympathy.)</p> <p>The end result was this. First, I did shit to do improve the status of the proletariat blogger being ground under the heel of management. Fortunately, my awesome colleagues handled that, and we're totally off strike. I have not fully resolved all my own issues with Science Blogging, and I'm not sure what all my longterm strategies are, but I still think Science Blogs has the ability to help me expose a new audience to the real issues of depletion and energy constraints, and I still like it here in many ways. I think Adam Bly and Seed Media are frankly committed to doing what it takes to make this work. And more importantly, you don't negotiate in bad faith - when you ask management to do something, and they comply, it would be bad faith to then say "I'm blowing this taco stand anyway." So, I'm back.</p> <p>Oh, and the really important end result, to me at least, was that Arava had a huge and beautiful and healthy little doe, who we named "Meadowsweet" in honor of the flowers blooming in our front yard (every year we have a theme to help us remember what generation a goat comes from - this year's theme is flowers and herbs). She's the most active and energetic baby we've had, already curious about the world and ready to play. Mother and baby are doing great. The season of babies, cuteness and motherhood has begun (and yay, I'm not giving birth to any of them - hallelujah!!!!...ok, sorry, just had to put that in!) with a bang and a conference call.</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/Bronx%20Zoo%2C%20etc%20399.JPG"><img alt="Bronx Zoo, etc 399.JPG" src="http://scienceblogs.com/casaubonsbook/assets_c/2010/07/Bronx Zoo, etc 399-thumb-400x300-53525.jpg" width="400" height="300" class="mt-image-center" style="text-align: center; display: block; margin: 0 auto 20px;" /></a></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a></span> <span>Fri, 07/23/2010 - 04:13</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/goats-0" hreflang="en">goats</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor-relations" hreflang="en">Labor relations</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science-blogs" hreflang="en">Science Blogs</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor-negotiations" hreflang="en">labor negotiations</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/labor-relations" hreflang="en">Labor relations</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879706" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279875666"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Awwww. Baby goats are apparently far cuter than I would've expected.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879706&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x7B4zh5KZxPRA7DW0A3nDXDxd-lHop0OVBoCScUBVrk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Anne Nonymous (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879706">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879707" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279875832"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Aw....beautiful baby. I would have hung up on the conference call too.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879707&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="q4RAJJE4KyI2KdXhM-cccNS0L-463IoaGc8ko44IS4M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://urbanprairieliving-gracie.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jennifer Mulkey (not verified)</a> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879707">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879708" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279876136"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My sister, whom I believe reads you here, has had similar goat vagina experiences. She's over at <a href="http://newtofarmlife.blogspot.com/">New to Farm Life</a>. I love your writing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879708&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xDmSMj2KBQk992iUBC-H8Vkns1tm7QIZagb71BwfdBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://infactorium.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnyEdge (not verified)</a> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879708">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879709" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279876803"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Beautiful girl! Welcome back.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879709&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vg__S_DGxXFfNC7x5k9xQXGbMSzifCAIiGEtrIgAg3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chad (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879709">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879710" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279877348"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"And more importantly, you don't negotiate in bad faith"</p> <p>While I agree with your statement in principle, as someone who has represented his sister and brother workers in public sector negotiations, I can assure you, empirically speaking, that bad faith bargaining from management is par for the course.</p> <p>I hope that your experience is better and that your excellent principles remain untarnished.</p> <p>Solidarity, Sister!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879710&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0_P9PddyGXMz3cVK8rSGKKAE6hzb16Wbd9KcRb7uhDE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike in Madison (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879710">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879711" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279878130"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Beautiful baby! You are a wonderful Mother: both directly and surrogately (is that a legitimate word?).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879711&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JrbpKdjHV4CB4sWTPvSQ4HDnXKm8QqR7LJ9hOJxOCZw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DennisP (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879711">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879712" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279881661"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow! That is a big baby! I've seen my dad deliver plenty of baby-sheep but I have never seen anything close to this in terms of relative size to the Mom. Truly a Herculean feat on the part of Mother Goat! Yes, and a really cute baby too.... Enjoy!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879712&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hr_rZK5Neq4rMGkF5GiDn0XtdquKomzHESRHt4F7Cjw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">PeterK (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879712">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879713" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279882591"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yii, the cuteness just made my head explode... Have previously seen free-range goat herds and been so gobsmacked by the cuteness of the babies that I wanted my own goat farm. But do not particularly want to put my hand up a goat's vagina. How do wild goats manage without midwifery? Or is it the usual story of wild animals having bigger pelvises, smaller babies, etc. and being generally better adapted to give birth than the overbred domestic (think dish-faced Persian)? Anyway, congrats on little Meadowsweet - what a darling!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879713&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cU93e_t2aQ5wPlMTcgTBLm5ZhcpgnKxaLWO6YlrCJD8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dewey (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879713">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879714" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279885855"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The season of babies, cuteness and motherhood has begun (and yay, I'm not giving birth to any of them - hallelujah!!!!...ok, sorry, just had to put that in!)</p></blockquote> <p>Nothing says "older, experienced parent" like that sentiment! After two beautiful children, we literally shudder at the thought of doing it again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879714&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dadoXON-J0aVD_TL5dEc5oqJcDhiuwhYT7l3rcY76cM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Edward Bryant (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879714">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879715" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279887793"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Baby goats! Goatlings? She looks kind of like a fawn. Soooo sweet!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879715&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uQKVI76ox44HrLGsMCBga-j8Qyps9bQB6iEbLLlZ2hk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newlifesd.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">k8 (not verified)</a> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879715">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879716" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279908258"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://crazinessandmore.blogspot.com/2010/07/ill-win-war.html">http://crazinessandmore.blogspot.com/2010/07/ill-win-war.html</a></p> <p>That post explains my reaction to your absolutely adorable baby goat.</p> <p>Also, congrats on the ScienceBlogs win!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879716&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_BuqbQzSJNwDfhcAQC97rnl2uBfj6xhwLQgmuqUxQcI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://crazinessandmore.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Tegan (not verified)</a> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879716">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879717" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279912450"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Glad to hear mom and baby goat are fine, and you were able to help when you needed to. There are more important things than conference calls, sometimes. Although it would have been fine too if the goats hadn't needed you during a conference call. Hope all goes as well with Science Blogs as it did with your goats!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879717&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jzErntUf6pnT2250FLsAYfrrYcrti6FplPuoLUd4usM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Claire (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879717">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879718" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279918159"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My nannies never had a problem so far as I know. They would have the kid out in the pasture, and not show up at the goat shed for feed and night's lodging. So I would go out in the pasture and find them. I would hold the kid by the front legs behind me and the nannie would (usually) follow the kid to the goat shed. One time, when I was about 10 years old, I had to deal with getting five kids and nannies in at the same time. Another time the nannie dropped the kid into a cholla (jumping cactus) and it took a while to get all the joints loose from the kid, as well as loose from me, in the process. And, yes, your animals come first.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879718&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-f7phwRdMdOjkxL5GuWpA7r1yxLA7W87SHXRBt50aqM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jim Thomerson (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879718">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879719" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279919009"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>1. Adorable baby goat is ridiculously adorable.<br /> 2. I think it would have been wildly amusing to narrate the birthing process during the conference call. Counter-productive, but amusing. And I'm sure everyone would have learned something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879719&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fd_DnDSFSs7oKbQbn_clhM6nmVugbsJQ11XnjaR2kNQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DerelictHat (not verified)</span> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879719">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879720" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279928182"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sharon,</p> <p>You will want to keep track of large babies, and birthing issues. Some males throw big babies - that means higher risk of problem births. Some females tend toward problem births, big babies, or both. The safer strategy is to cull those that repeat problems. Just like saving seeds, you want to "tune" your genetic pool to thrive with the least risk and intervention.</p> <p>In horses, at least, mares that foal early often foal early about the same amount each year - and pass that on. Same with mares that foal "on time", or late. Five days "early" might be Arava's "on time".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879720&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qv2NpwoN_W2c-dqPo93NarJBY1gajIUIUC-d51qBb3k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brad K. (not verified)</a> on 23 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879720">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879721" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279968242"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I like the inherent pun in this post.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879721&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8J5bc55ZPbx8s9kt-PDe5GcTJMhp_n7SJous-woTVPE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Susan in NJ (not verified)</span> on 24 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879721">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="78" id="comment-1879722" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280060524"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is the only time we've had any difficulties with goat presentations - and the issue is almost certainly our own failure to keep her constrained - Arava was only 5 1/2 months old when she conceived. In the wild, she probably wouldn't have been large enough to conceive quite so early - but that's what happens when you select for milk. That said she might have delivered this one successfully, with greater tearing for her, or the baby might have died - a normal outcome in the wild.</p> <p>Brad, I agree.</p> <p>Sharon</p> <p>Sharon</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879722&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_OH9L5LqQtmuFOattIiYY6sW8aGrgIEikNU7fsZZVyk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a> on 25 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879722">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/sastyk"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/sastyk" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879723" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280065923"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Keep an eye out for infection in the doe. Dystocia by itself is one thing and uterine infection is unlikely, but once you start sticking hands in there (especially if you were ungloved, but really even if you were) and pushing little hooves around, the danger increases. That's why it's best not to intervene in birth if at all possible and important to wear clean gloves if you must.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879723&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J7wpcGFp4Og40B4pQKNif0-NUMPnCze1Ot28woHi93E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Thisbe (not verified)</span> on 25 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879723">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="78" id="comment-1879724" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280079567"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks for the advice Thisbe - Semmelweiss ain't just for humans. But I did, of course, use clean sterile gloves, an antiseptic lube and have clean hands. </p> <p>Sharon</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879724&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9cMieGLGAkUUb6KhJXufuLAYQmL435msZCg_GeIJ74g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/sastyk" lang="" about="/author/sastyk" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sastyk</a> on 25 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879724">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/sastyk"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/sastyk" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879725" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280089497"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Usually I'm too squeemish for birth stories, but that baby goat is adooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorable!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879725&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-KvchqZcYJl6g9OjZBjHEn1i0GvBROVjiZUK2hFMKvk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Katherine (not verified)</span> on 25 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879725">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879726" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280094648"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sounds like your efforts at labour negotiation were entirely fruitful - at least in one sense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879726&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zz2KEOhFI4vewbkliuIr1opAV5xda21wiRBuzbaGGik"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sarah (not verified)</span> on 25 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879726">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879727" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280112011"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I guess he utilizes the conferencing to showcase the goat.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879727&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BjJH5dpwtwXxPPUFTHSONN1FAfhavBGOijyG9bHkefw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.800numbersinfo.com/index.php?id=159" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Call Conference (not verified)</a> on 25 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879727">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1879728" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1280821837"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>She's a beauty - congrats on both wins!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1879728&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N1WJvjkZHoeodiblN3kQEJSCgYJgIlmqQMqUz6DyC-4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://goat-ama.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Tarbuttgoats (not verified)</a> on 03 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/15954/feed#comment-1879728">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/casaubonsbook/2010/07/23/one-hand-in-a-goat-the-other-o%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:13:10 +0000 sastyk 63423 at https://scienceblogs.com