Diane Harper https://scienceblogs.com/ en The Katie Couric "apology" about her segment on HPV and HPV vaccines https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/12/11/the-katie-couric-apology-about-her-segment-on-hpv-and-hpv-vaccines <span>The Katie Couric &quot;apology&quot; about her segment on HPV and HPV vaccines</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccines against the human papilloma virus (HPV), such as Gardasil and Cervarix, seem to have a strange power over people who are otherwise reasonable about science and vaccines. For some reason, HPV vaccines seem to have an uncanny ability to turn such people into raging antivaccinationists almost as loony as the merry band of antivaccine loons over at Age of Autism. At the very least, they seem to make seemingly reasonable people susceptible to blandishments and tropes for which they'd normally otherwise never fall. Truly, Gardasil and Cervarix seem to be vaccines that make reasonable people lose their minds. I tend to think it's about the sex. After all, HPV is largely a sexually-transmitted virus, hence the tendency for fundamentalist Christians to find it particularly objectionable.</p> <p>Whatever the reason for the outsized negative reaction to Gardasil and Cervarix (and I really do think it's all about the sex, given the prudery of American society), antivaccinationists are aware of it. Indeed, they nurture it and take advantage of the undeservedly bad reputation that HPV vaccines have. Sometimes they are able to take advantage of it in a spectacular way, as they did last week. That's when a board member of the antivaccine Canary Party and the founder of a website so full of antivaccine pseudoscience, quackery, and pure misinformation appeared on the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/12/05/katie-couric-on-the-hpv-vaccine-antivaccine-or-irresponsible-journalist-you-be-the-judge/">Katie Couric's daytime talk show</a>. Even better for the antivaccine movement (but much worse for the reason-based community), these bits of background were not revealed. What Couric showed her viewers were two mothers, one of whom thinks that Gardasil killed her daughter, the other of whom thought that Gardasil made her daughter ill. Against this sympathetic portrayal, no pediatrician could stand, although Dr. Mallika Marshall valiantly tried at the end.</p> <!--more--><p>What was particularly gratifying was how rapid and negative the reaction of the blogosphere was to the episode. Sure, a few antivaccine and quack sites praised Katie for telling the "truth," but virtually all other reaction from mainstream sources, science bloggers (including yours truly), and news publications was relentlessly negative, with one even going so far as to refer to Couric as the "new Jenny McCarthy." That was an obvious shot, but not entirely undeserved. After all, it takes talent and hard work to take a reputation for supporting science-based medicine built up over years of promoting colon cancer awareness and destroy it in a single 25 minute segment on a daytime television show.</p> <p>It's gratifying to see that Couric and her producers are feeling the heat. It's obvious from a rather blatant notpology that Couric posted on that wretched hive of scum and antivaccine quackery, The Huffington Post, which she entitled <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katie-couric/vaccine-hpv-furthering-conversation_b_4418568.html">Furthering the Conversation on the HPV Vaccine</a>. I suppose that's what Couric managed to do, but so minimally as to be virtually pointless. Basically, what Couric does is whine, justify, and (sort of) partially apologize for screwing up so royally:</p> <blockquote><p> Last week we devoted several segments on my TV talk show to the issues surrounding the HPV (human papillomavirus) vaccine. Learning about this relatively recent preventive measure is tremendously important, and I felt it was a subject well worth exploring. Following the show, and in fact before it even aired, there was criticism that the program was too anti-vaccine and anti-science, and in retrospect, some of that criticism was valid. We simply spent too much time on the serious adverse events that have been reported in very rare cases following the vaccine. More emphasis should have been given to the safety and efficacy of the HPV vaccines. As someone who has spent the last 15 years relaying important medical information with the goal of improving public health, it is critical to me that people know the facts. </p></blockquote> <p>You know, given all of Couric's good work, I bent over backward to <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/12/05/katie-couric-on-the-hpv-vaccine-antivaccine-or-irresponsible-journalist-you-be-the-judge/">give her the benefit of the doubt the first time around</a>, but it was hard, given the sheer level of misinformation and false balance in her HPV segment. After this notpology, I'm having an even harder time. "Some of that criticism was valid"? All of that criticism was valid. OK, I understand. This is about as close to an apology as one can expect after a segment as bad as the HPV segment on Couric's show.</p> <p>If that were all Couric said, I could accept it for what it is, particularly given how Couric followed it up with a discussion of how the rate of HPV infection has fallen markedly since the introduction of Gardasil and how significant adverse reactions to Gardasil are rare. All of this is true, but then Couric had to come back and try to justify why she had two antivaccine activists on her show to tell stories that blame Gardasil for death and illness when there is no evidence that Gardasil caused either in either girl:</p> <blockquote><p> As a journalist, I felt that we couldn't simply ignore these reports. That's why we had two mothers on the show who reported adverse reactions after their daughters had been vaccinated for HPV. One could hardly get out of bed for three years, and the other tragically died. There is no definitive proof that these two situations were related to the vaccine. Every life is important. However, the time spent telling these stories was disproportionate to the statistical risk attendant to the vaccines and greater perspective is needed. </p></blockquote> <p>I might not be a journalist, but as a scientist and physician I can tell Couric that she was wrong. Not only is there no "definitive proof" that either of these reported adverse reactions, death and a strange, poorly described chronic illness, had anything to do with Gardasil, there's no evidence whatsoever behind only a vague temporal correlation. As much sympathy as I have for a mother who has lost her child, as Emily Tarsell lost her daughter Christina Tarsell, a <em>journalist</em>, as Couric claims to still be, has a responsibility not just to regurgitate her story for to tug at the heartstrings of her audience. A major claim that goes against what we know about Gardasil has been made. It is a journalist's responsibility to examine not just the story as told by the grieving mother but the evidence supporting whether her story might be correct. Couric and her producers failed epically at this basic task from Journalism 101. Indeed, it was worse than that in that she didn't even require Tarsell to answer a very basic question about what symptoms her daughter noted before her death, letting her demur by refusing to answer because she has a "case pending."</p> <p>Never mind that it's easy to find all sorts of information about Christina Tarsell's case all over the Internet, mostly told by Mrs. Tarsell herself. For example, it's easy to find this particular document: <a href="http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/MORAN.TARSELL033012.pdf">EMILY TARSELL, As the Executrix of the Estate of CHRISTINA TARSELL…. FINDING OF FACTS</a>. Yes, it's the finding of fact from the Special Master:</p> <blockquote><p> On November 20, 2007, Christina saw a doctor for chronic sinus congestion. The doctor detected an irregular pulse rate. Exhibit 4 at 136. An EKG was abnormal, indicating premature atrial contractions and that Christina ’s heart was beating in pairs. Id. at 142.</p> <p>Approximately one month later, the EKG was repeated. It appears unchanged from the previous one. Id . at 135 and 141. In February 2008, Christina had a transthoracic echocardiogram. It produced normal results. Exhibit 4 at 139. </p></blockquote> <p>There are also notations that Christina complained about feeling dizzy and faint. One has to wonder, given this history, whether Christina had an electrical conduction abnormality in her heart. Such abnormalities often have no accompanying detectable abnormality on the echocardiogram, and, although rare, can be a cause of sudden cardiac death in young adults. One also notes that these symptoms occurred several months before the third dose of Gardasil that Mrs. Tarsell blamed for her daughter's death.</p> <p>If my readers and I can find that with a brief session on Google, why couldn't Couric and her producers find it before letting Tarsell falsely blame Gardasil for the death of her daughter on national TV, aided and abetted by Katie Couric. That's on top of Tarsell's being one of the founders of SaneVax, a group known for peddling a manual for <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/24/despicable-a-parents-guide-to-fishing-for-proof-that-vaccines-kill/">blaming the death of one's child on vaccines</a> and peddling <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/09/06/oh-no-theres-dna-in-my-gardasil/">pseudoscientific antivaccine fear mongering</a>. More recently, SaneVax published a guide entitled <a href="http://sanevax.org/vaccine-injury-law-gardasil-hpv-daughter-suspect-premature-ovarian-failure/">Gardasil HPV: What to Do If You or Your Daughter Suspect Premature Ovarian Failure</a>. It doesn't matter that convincing evidence supporting a link between premature ovarian failure and Gardasil is <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/10/30/ovarian-failure-caused-by-gardasil-not-so-fast/">basically</a> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/">nonexistent</a>.</p> <p>Next up, Couric tries to defend herself against charges that Diane Harper, one of the investigators on the original clinical trials that led to FDA approval of Gardasil, spread misinformation:</p> <blockquote><p> Another concern expressed was the duration of protection the vaccines offer. An early study showed that they are effective for five years. But more recent research indicates the protection lasts for at least eight years, and potentially well beyond that. The longer the vaccine is available, the more research can be done on its long-term efficacy, and the public will need to be informed.</p> <p>There is one aspect of the show that I felt was especially critical to communicate to viewers. It is also important for women to have regular Pap smears to detect cell abnormalities that can lead to cervical cancer. There's been troubling research out of Australia that indicates some women are skipping their Pap tests because they have been vaccinated. That's a terrible idea. While the vaccine protects against some of the HPV strains that cause cervical cancers, it doesn't protect against all of them, and regular Pap smears are essential for life-saving diagnoses. </p></blockquote> <p>OK, it's true that vaccination against HPV doesn't make Pap smears unnecessary. After all, neither HPV vaccine covers all the potential strains of HPV that can cause cervical cancer, only the most common, but Couric's mentioning it seems like a quick pivot to draw attention away from just how badly Couric screwed up. I'll give you an idea how bad, courtesy of Dr. Jen Gunter, who picked up on something last week that I should have picked up on as well. Oh, well.</p> <p>To understand the problem, you have to know that one of the claims that Dr. Diane Harper made was that protection from Gardasil only lasts five years. <a href="http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/the-real-hpv-controversy-from-katie-courics-show-her-expert/">Let's take a look</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> A paper authored by Harper (and others) <a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)61567-1/abstract">from 2009</a> published in the Lancet specifically shows that the HPV vaccine (Cervarix) is effective for 6.4 years. <strong>Yes, Harper participated in and published a study that shows an HPV vaccine (at the time in 2009) was effective for at least 6.4 years.</strong> Dr. Harper has written extensively (and very favorably, at least in 2011) on Cervarix. She writes in a 2011 opinion piece (ISRN Obstetrics and Gynecology, Harper and Vierthaler) that <strong>Cervarix offers “protection against HPV 16 and 18 lasting at least 9.4 years.”</strong></p> <p>If Couric were on her show in any journalistic capacity she should have immediately asked, “Why would you say the HPV vaccine only works for 5 years, Dr. Harper, when in your 2009 publication you write, and I quote, <em>Our findings show excellent long-term efficacy, high and sustained immunogenicity, and favourable safety of the HPV 16/18 AS04-adjuvanted vaccine up to 6.4 years.</em> Is your issue specifically with Gardasil?”</p> <p>However, studies indicate that Gardasil is also effective for longer than 5 years. Data presented last year from two studies expand the proven effectiveness of Gardasil to 8 years. I’m not sure how Harper could be unaware of this data. It’s not exactly brand new in HPV circles. </p></blockquote> <p>I've actually read Dr. Harper's article praising Cervarix before. I read it when I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/16/yet-another-antivaccine-meme-rises-from-the-grave-again-no-diane-harper-doesnt-hate-gardasil/">last wrote about Dr. Harper</a> before the latest Katie Couric kerfuffle. Back then, I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was her naivete that allowed the antivaccine movement to enlist her statements into the service of their cause. No more. I find it very difficult now not to conclude that Dr. Harper either lied or was so utterly clueless about the scientific literature on HPV and vaccines against the HPV types that cause cancer as to have forfeited any right she previously might have claimed to be considered an expert.</p> <p>Not only that, but as Jen Gunter points out, Harper's own work indicates that adverse events with both of the vaccines was the same as placebo. One wonders why Katie Couric, former journalist, wasn't aware of these little tidbits of information.</p> <p>No, actually, one doesn't.</p> <p>Couric finishes with a self-righteous flourish, writing about how she's personally experienced the "devastating impact that cancer has on people and their loved ones" and has "been a passionate advocate for cancer research, education, and prevention." Fair enough, although she does lay it on a bit thick by talking about being co-founder of the National Colorectal Cancer Research Alliance and Stand Up To Cancer (SU2C). These are all good things. I hope she continues to do them. However, they do not absolve her of the responsibility for the dangerous misinformation she promoted about vaccines. In one segment, she seriously damaged what has taken many years to build up: Her reputation as a promoter of science-based medicine with respect to cancer. One wonders if she would have aired a similar story if Gardasil protected against an infection that led to colon, rather than cervical, cancer. My guess is that she wouldn't have.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Tue, 12/10/2013 - 21:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cervarix" hreflang="en">Cervarix</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/diane-harper" hreflang="en">Diane Harper</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/gardasil" hreflang="en">gardasil</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/hpv" hreflang="en">HPV</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/katie-couric" hreflang="en">katie couric</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/television" hreflang="en">television</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/social-sciences" hreflang="en">Social Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246041" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386728215"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Couric's comments are a notpology, as they say. She screwed up in several ways and, instead of admitting it when she was called out for it, tries to excuse her actions then points to her work fighting cancer as a way to deflect criticism.</p> <blockquote><p> As someone who has spent the last 15 years relaying important medical information with the goal of improving public health, it is critical to me that people know the facts.</p></blockquote> <p>But you didn't give them the facts.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246041&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NKXNK-jyI3IDkdr_xNYCMbZjEVXBuJxyJMFrTZYKrMI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246041">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246042" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386729036"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does anyone have a link to the Gardasil 8 year protection data? I'm having a little tête-a-tête with the boy wonder about this, and while he's reduced to bickering over semantics, the best data I could find was seven years.</p> <p>Thanks,</p> <p>Becky</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246042&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6RF49Yb7dlojQbXYRwDxExx0jQhDiKMsZx6iCYzaT98"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rebecca Fisher (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246042">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246043" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386730001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I disagree that this is a notpology. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is about as much of an apology as we could ever expect from a news personality. She makes it exceedingly clear that she focused far too much on individual cases, she points out how she was wrong, she fills her story with the facts which absolutely should have been in her original report, and she even admitted that she was wrong to give those reports so much air time. </p> <p>Oh, the original report was awful, and I spent more time than I should have on the comment section of that one article in TIME magazine (right until the stupid bitch from AoA started Gish Galloping all over the comments page, at which point I said "fuck it, I have better things to do"). But I think we should accept this apology, and treat Couric's further reporting the way it deserves to be treated - tentative goodwill.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246043&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fIJP1_RFAsLs8zCAPuCHfNVMTO3DhicO8wyj_jW5dRs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Budget Player Cadet (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246043">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246044" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386730103"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Does anyone have a link to the Gardasil 8 year protection data?</p></blockquote> <p>Immunogenicity to <a href="https://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/vaccines/article/13690/?nocache=789159327">8.4 years</a> for the bivalent vaccine. Submitted <b>2010</b> August 3.</p> <p>I take it he's torturing this to fit into the nominal raison d'être for "Autism Investigated."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246044&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zPTppJjUlJewkf0l1E4yjop2Q6MMSSV4hB2NwkNagYw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246044">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246045" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386731151"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You could always toss <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3554470/">this</a> at him as well, because, like, failure of a global ban on thimerosal indicates shirking of the White Man's Burden.</p> <blockquote><p>Models predict a substantial reduction in prevalence of specific HPV 16/18 infections, followed by a reduction in cervical abnormalities and a final reduction in ICC, if coverage is high (&gt;70%) and vaccine induced protection lasts for <b>at least 10 years</b> [4].</p></blockquote> <p>Make him say that the vaccine "might be OK" for the women he remembers from the backs of his parents' collection of old copies of <i>National Geographic</i>. Please.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246045&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4xGuZXgg1y_KQzG2VPI-8Yo-QKVr1Qba8a3f67PS8ho"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246045">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246046" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386731327"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ I meant to note that Antaeus has already made the point that even a limited window of effectiveness can be significant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246046&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eaCqfuv5Pw08HJ9mrttbZvyEt7fDYth1dHQiZXDSBFA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246046">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246047" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386733722"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>IIRC, Gardasil vaccine manufacturing is quite similar to the rDNA Hepatitis B vaccine manufacturer.</p> <p>The rDNA Hepatitis B vaccine in use now for ~ 40 years, which has immunized hundreds of millions of infants, children and adults provides immunity which is lifelong (or at least 40 years :-) )</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246047&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-qLoXwWdXnVwLAMcGoZv9PFnwN0Ylm4f0Z9NdRDKOvc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246047">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246048" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386735576"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Again, this time with less swearing. </p> <p>I disagree that this is a notpology. In fact, I’d go so far as to say this is about as much of an apology as we could ever expect from a news personality. She makes it exceedingly clear that she focused far too much on individual cases, she points out how she was wrong, she fills her story with the facts which absolutely should have been in her original report, and she even admitted that she was wrong to give those reports so much air time.</p> <p>Oh, the original report was awful, and I spent more time than I should have on the comment section of that one article in TIME magazine refuting antivaccers (right until a PR drone from AoA started Gish Galloping all over the comments page, at which point I said “I have better things to do”). But I think we should accept this apology, and treat Couric’s further reporting the way it deserves to be treated – tentative goodwill. And hopefully she'll do us a favor and stay away from vaccines for a while.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246048&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JCpnRHlj4G__5AsnY2OJqhtld3zJ5wJzTswZLsjwDtI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Budget Player Cadet (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246048">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246049" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386737487"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad - Thank you. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246049&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aTinMPgYm8E6fAb-hzfYOhQJY2I7Qswt6oERLlHYqsY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rebecca Fisher (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246049">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246050" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386741312"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What is with the "waning immunity" trope anyhow? We now know that only 1 or 2 doses of the vaccine can stimulate adequate immunity, and even were immunity to fade after 10 or 15 years, then.....<br /> ...Just give a booster shot!</p> <p>@Becca<br /></p><blockquote>Does anyone have a link to the Gardasil 8 year protection data? I’m having a little tête-a-tête with the boy wonder about this, and while he’s reduced to bickering over semantics, the best data I could find was seven years.</blockquote> <p>With every year that passes we are likely to see additional data. So it will got from 9 years to 10, then 11 etc.<br /> The immune responses in the FUTURES and PATRICIA studies did not wane after 5 yrs and 6.4 years - they were quite stable and at protective levels (10 fold and 16 fold) at the end of both analyses - even Diane Harper published data corroborating this.<br /><a href="http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Diane-M-Harper/files/2010/07/discovery_medicine_harper_no50_figure_1.jpg.jhtml?id=2|attachment_8">http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Diane-M-Harper/files/2010/07/discovery…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246050&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WjwCFzel-Qt6S1WzOfrdUBwc5fliJy534BALOiXOvzI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246050">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246051" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386742599"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't know, but I'd rather have ten shots than one Pap any day.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246051&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U_znv0Piu0n55pyUO99do9iNtf1d_XFhbs9zOw87Ljo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Khani (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246051">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246052" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386743089"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think AVers want eternal immunity.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246052&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xs_QjpozQ_SKeiiB6VBRhxMXkOYezgJxjaNVMoQnKwM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris HIckie (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246052">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246053" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386743102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>At least the, "just because it prevents precancerous changes doesn't mean it prevents cancer" trope seems to be fading away, now we know that it prevents CIN-3, the immediate precursor to cervical cancer. </p> <p>I think this vaccine is a brilliant application of science and a public health triumph, and I will continue to trumpet this from the rooftops to anyone who will listen, and especially to those who will not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246053&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3SETV5PIG_FOA54gbe3paw-RUynvjwA9-Jf6sPH_AAI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246053">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246054" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386743696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Budget Player Cadet:</p> <p>It remains a notpology so long as she's apologizing solely to the people who took offence. This is posted to HuffPo, which is hardly the same audience that she lied to on her TV show. If she opens a show saying "Look, we weren't exactly clear about the risks in the vaccines, so here's some science," then maybe I'd consider that an apology. </p> <p>Basically, she needs to address the 'damaged parties' directly, rather than burying a half-hearted retraction on HuffPo's back pages.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246054&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5yal3ByDID8PyG_U1TnYPMGgq30L_sdlbHZASxzg5P4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard Murray (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246054">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246055" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386744484"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Amen @Richard Murray. The dialogue itself is about as much of an apology as we can expect, and most of it is ok (most). But why isn't it on her show?!?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246055&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0tNW_Voyrm1KBD3fIXaXt63-HUVLRR3ZG1RxSes5Q1E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246055">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246056" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386747109"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>However, the time spent telling these stories was disproportionate to the statistical risk attendant to the vaccines</p></blockquote> <p>I'm sure some intern could be tasked to recut it proportionately.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246056&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KaHZVz4s2Ra0TvObtbO7mFU-EZJFOmnT0bnubaBQtpE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246056">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246057" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386747588"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Richard Murray and AnObservingParty</p> <p>Exactly. That was probably my biggest criticism of her post, that it was on HuffPo, rather than on her show. Different audiences. Granted, even if she were to do another segment on her show correcting all of the misinformation from the original episode, the damage is still done. There is still this stinking mess out there to be passed around and around and around by anti-vaxers to help scare people away from the vaccine. The best thing they could do, from a public health POV, would be to completely remove the video online (though I'm sure enterprising, forward-thinking AVers will already have downloaded a copy to use later).</p> <p>Huge journalism fail. Broke journalistic ethics in the first place and only slightly made up for it with the notpology.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246057&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-3sUdBKb2i_ggZ7teuiKyplPCNc-kLT-UZrfLDrcpw4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246057">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246058" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386748495"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Richard: Fair point.</p> <p>Also, on a side note, I encountered a fair bit of "Has the HPV vaccine ever been proven to prevent cancer" crap on that TIME article's comments. Honestly, at that point, Antivaccers just make themselves look dumb even to the most oblivious observer. If your argument against the vaccine is "it hasn't prevented cancer yet", but you acknowledge that it prevents a disease which causes cancer, and that we wouldn't expect to see cancer yet given the length of time before it generally shows up, then it doesn't take a genius to notice how dumb you sound.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246058&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f3WlAOxR0uJxR5Wz4_sEIsjiUONTh9iG3VWMzdJ582Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Budget Player Cadet (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246058">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246059" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386749306"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I agree that Couric needs to make this apology to the same audience that was misled about the HPV vaccine - on TV.</p> <p>"I might not be a journalist, but as a scientist and physician I can tell Couric that she was wrong."</p> <p>I am an (ex-) journalist and physician, and I can tell her the same thing. It is also wrong for her to continue to focus only on the vaccine's role in preventing cancer. It also will save millions of women from invasive, painful and potentially fertility-altering procedures aimed at eradicating vaccine-preventable precancers (dysplasias).</p> <p>Couric went for the ratings, now she's got the fallout. She's only partially dealt with it. It remains to be seen whether she'll surrender to this temptation again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246059&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nM-2uXQHu5jmp_PUDcEU3bmmnIh8JuJvB1dUZvrTOpk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246059">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246060" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386751730"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>To be "fair and balanced" -why didn't she have parents of women who died from cervical cancer? Or are currently suffering?<br /> I'm sure if there was a vaccine to prevent colon cancer - her guests would be much different<br /> Hmm, I think this really makes me mad</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246060&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-ocXnR4CFbHjvCcbmkiv1c940sR3TVQbhAt1C_DDDws"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Leeann (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246060">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246061" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386752078"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Don't bother with Jacob Crosby, MPH. He won't listen to reason. He won't listen to his masters. In <a href="http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2013/07/25/crosbys-labyrinth-or-why-i-couldnt-stop-myself-from-replying-to-the-vaccine-conspiracy-theorist-to-end-all-conspiracy-theorists/">Crosby's Labyrinth</a>, he and he only is correct. All others are heretics, paid pharma shills, and "mouthpieces" of a vast conspiracy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246061&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y0mizZvykJ01ubIh499kP2AOUQ6JNTtexqH1THaM_yY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246061">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246062" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386753044"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Rebecca Fisher:</p> <p>Great work at Jake's! You and Larry call out his distortion which illustrates succinctly how he purveys information while he mimes both science and journalism.</p> <p>Interestingly, he alllows dissent- which I suppose he is forced to, as his blog exists because of censorship of his comments at AoA. I wonder if he censors other critical comments.Has anyone else tried?</p> <p>Wouldn't it be fun if more SB folk appeared over there? Not that I believe that anyone could unfreeze his paralysed stance on vaccines, conspiracies and autism.<br /> I might even show up if I can conjure a disposable e-mail address and another nym. I've had lots of fun with Jake already.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246062&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ia_wGTuzhIKwmF73xRfwrHqbIQ7e2JhGI_Ut6H9f4fY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246062">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246063" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386756007"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I’m sure if there was a vaccine to prevent colon cancer...."</p> <p>Now that would have been an excellent line for the paediatrician to have at the ready.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246063&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xcb-PH7EmsPNiDNVPeOUxr0jz5qjfFWfCe0Ni28YkBg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lancelot Gobbo (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246063">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246064" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386756399"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Ren</p> <p>Jake still has not responded to me on Twitter when I corrected him about the scientific evidence showing the vaccines last longer than 5 years. He suffers from a severe case of finger-in-ear.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246064&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eCl6fhwmZf2PSVegbbHGbqdxsnlUuwkUjTo3ksSC1y4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246064">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246065" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386757143"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Todd - he does...and if he has to resort to semantic jumping through hoops to maintain his position, he certainly will.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246065&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8Fjx3vgyO-oiwTp0YAYQashxrZOlcAh93W9ZI9-vuIM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246065">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246066" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386758762"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Budget Player Cadet</p> <blockquote><p>If your argument against the vaccine is “it hasn’t prevented cancer yet”, but you acknowledge that it prevents a disease which causes cancer [...]</p></blockquote> <p>A few years back, we had a vocal contrary person spouting these exact lines here at Respectful Insolence<br /> In essence, his/her position wayes we have a chain of events connecting HPV to cancer, but no, we can not assert that using something to block/limit HPV infection will lead to less cancer. After all, it(s just a theory, science has been wrong before, and all that.</p> <p>Sadly, however dumb that position may sound, casting doubts always left something behind.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246066&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PTBGJRTCpSj6BGXeVyWpzg1FDvzdhRcQrGnvJbEPDSs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246066">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246067" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386759377"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jacob Crosby, MPH, has not allowed one single comment of mine through on his blog. He has not answered any emails of mine in the last two years. I've been asking him to give specific examples of how I've threathened him with physical violence since that was the gist of his email to half of the leadership at the health department where I worked, begging them to fire me. Like so many of the anti-vaccine crowd's responses, the silence is deafening. He is not interested in being wrong. He wants to be praised.</p> <p>He needs praise and admiration like an epidemiologist needs facts.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246067&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jhf3M-4L-Nl89B5O7b-Q1lBDy7dbKSJYA-mp25crvgI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246067">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246068" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386760389"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re a vaccine that prevents cancer --<br /> Most of you know that we already have a vaccine that prevents cancer.<br /> From the Hepatitis B Foundation:<br /> Worldwide, chronic infection with hepatitis causes 80% of all primary liver cancers and more than 500,000 people die each year from this lethal cancer. Currently, primary liver cancer has a 5-year survival rate of only 10%.</p> <p>The good news is that there is an effective vaccine against the hepatitis B. In fact, the hepatitis B vaccine was named the first “anti-cancer vaccine” by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration because the prevention of chronic hepatitis B infections results in the prevention of primary liver cancer due to hepatitis B</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246068&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8V6fBt3t8lS78rlowS0svKGfylBb6IaspXT4iRPE05s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">THS (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246068">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246069" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386761033"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Budget Player Cadet</p> <blockquote><p>If your argument against the vaccine is “it hasn’t prevented cancer yet”, but you acknowledge that it prevents a disease which causes cancer [...]</p></blockquote> <p>A few years back, we had a vocal contrary person spouting these exact lines here at Respectful Insolence<br /> In essence, his/her position was that yes we have a chain of events connecting HPV to cancer, but no, we can not assert that using something to block/limit HPV infection will lead to less cancer. After all, it's just a theory, science has been wrong before, and all that.<br /> A first article from Australia, showing a lesser number of genital warts and pre-cancerous lesions among vaccinated women was still not enough for this person. Nope, still no evidence the vaccine may be useful.</p> <p>This person was also very upset whenever we dared to talk about unfortunate outcomes of vaccine-preventable illnesses, be it death or sequels or merely loss of income due to staying home nursing sick kids. Because, you understand, it's just nasty syringe-pushers manipulating your emotions.<br /> Of course, if we are not allowed to say how nasty some virus could be, and how often it happens, that doesn't leave many arguments in favor of countermeasures...</p> <p>Sadly, however dumb these positions may sound, casting doubts always left something behind. "Médisez, médisez, il en restera toujours quelque chose"</p> <p>Because from a scientific point of view, we cannot answer "no" to the question "couldn't something go wrong?". At best, we can say "very unlikely", or "less likely compared to that would likely happen if choosing the alternative/doing nothing". And it left enough wriggle room for naysayers to exclaim victoriously "See? Even the vaccines pushers think something will go awry".<br /> The person I'm talking about above was very good at playing Ponce Pilate. Better to do nothing than to risk killing someone by giving her a vaccine. Watching people suffer or die without trying to help them is apparently not a sin.</p> <p>Who knows? If you insist long enough, maybe Reality will conform to your wishes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246069&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D7KrNgpkE726jp5xlkaJnUAw1CfQz8czUyGNZupgTvA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246069">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246070" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386761075"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ah. Apologies for the double post.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246070&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2wJ6cLM6niyX0IaKdF03Sgvogj2es-xFu4wcz8SYy-8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246070">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246071" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386761354"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>More backlash from Time, after Katie Couric issued her nonpologies.on her own website and on the Ho-Po:</p> <p><a href="http://healthland.time.com/2013/12/10/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarthy-couric-responds/">http://healthland.time.com/2013/12/10/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mc…</a></p> <p>Thanks for confirming what we already knew about Jake's "moderation policy", Ren.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246071&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zaTwpMOfYwNWi5nPCU5CL8ETJ40_m8uxWYk_wq-xWHk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246071">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246072" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386762568"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Rebecca Fisher @ #2:</p> <p>The 8 to 9 year data on Gardasil proper is unpublished but was presented at the 28th International Papilloma Conference last year. The press release is here:</p> <p><a href="http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/studies-demonstrate-gardasil-has-long-duration-of-protection-from-hpv-disease-182323031.html">http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/studies-demonstrate-gardasil-…</a></p> <p>And the abstracts are here:</p> <p><a href="http://www.hpv2012pr.org/HPV2012_PUERTO_RICO_Abstracts_Epidemiology_Public_Health.pdf">http://www.hpv2012pr.org/HPV2012_PUERTO_RICO_Abstracts_Epidemiology_Pub…</a></p> <p>You can read more about duration of protection in my note here:</p> <p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/notes/chillin-out-vaxin-relaxin-all-cool/how-long-does-that-hpv-vaccine-really-work/620324728031455">https://www.facebook.com/notes/chillin-out-vaxin-relaxin-all-cool/how-l…</a></p> <p>Good luck!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246072&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6UNRadXUarFsAqMVQ2g3aiowLvkAcvsJN1gSe588GXU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Big Morbillie Style (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246072">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246073" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386764588"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Ren:</p> <p>Just as I thought!<br /> He allows one or two dissenting voices ( including a few form AoA) through so that his policy appears to be 'open expression' whilst he blocks our Epi Dude. I think that your characterisatio nof his MO is apropo.</p> <p>Has anyone else from RI/ SBM tried to comment @ Autism Investigated ( which I abbreviate @ 'AI' - for OBVIOUS reasons). I haven't as yet. There are a few minions I'd really like to see attempt to break through the fog...<br /> altho' his readership appears to be in agreement with him. </p> <p>If you do, watch which e-mail you use: he likes to investigate his opponents.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246073&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xl9cFyZAdrrPhr_mw6Hxsp5FpcUfGkJaOBeeS9G7DvE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246073">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246074" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386764856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denise...........hmmmmmmmm..........maybe......... ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246074&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TboJ_1UbLMy3mi1-2mCIkaxY3a50Crw9zaNtcC6YHrg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246074">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246075" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386765043"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>What is with the “waning immunity” trope anyhow? We now know that only 1 or 2 doses of the vaccine can stimulate adequate immunity, and even were immunity to fade after 10 or 15 years, then…..<br /> …Just give a booster shot!</i></p> <p>Do you know what's really ineffective? Food. I tried eating when hungry, but the food only provides protection from the hunger for a few hours!</p> <p>...yes, I don't get it either. It's no big deal to get a shot once a year to reduce my risk of influenza - if I had to get a shot once every fifteen years to reduce my risk of <i>cancer</i>? No-brainer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246075&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cwJMIXGmWKbuIm9w8Wyo1wrFhBaIZ0e9rzOKa5m5Zuo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Roadstergal (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246075">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246076" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386765106"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lawrence:</p> <p>I understand, Brian.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246076&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CCLeM_jmKRvI6Wr9Vc35sYdWqZ2Q3JccgZc7u-5ymUc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246076">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246077" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386767179"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>he likes to investigate his opponents.</i></p> <p>Hm, maybe it's time for me to use that IP masking service for something other than watching UK-only content on iPlayer... ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246077&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="42rF9jEXoZ9SO9RRfQWB7ASE9dJbHZfwB_d3X1JvBJo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johanna (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246077">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246078" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386769198"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One of the perennial whines the antivax idiots have is that all anyone is interested in is making $$$ from vaccines, whatever the human cost.</p> <p>So that would be why researchers and pharma sponsored studies have been conducted to see if only 1 shot or 2 shots of the vaccine may be sufficient, I guess?<br /> ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246078&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0tkLjpf1YQ6iwRcAwQgRrlYCpnuw3whmEmHNalrDhAg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246078">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246079" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386769755"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I visited Jake's site.<br /> Under "Science" there was some guff about press releases, and congressional hearings. I got tired searching for any science. Does Jake even understand the concept?<br /> Under "Fraud" I looked for Wakefield. Nada.<br /> What kind of intelligence blackhole is he trying to run?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246079&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oAEqF66qrdSP73SFAEjKAU_0qyPgSfTT9ihVXowLhqE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246079">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246080" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386771429"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Couric could perhaps fix this almost properly if she wanted to. Get some experts on. Say how important. Say the words anal cancer, and penile cancer. I would also get some head-and-neck cancer advocates on the show too - likely men, perhaps with electronic gizmo's to help them speak (we've got such at every meeting of our H+N SPORE) - they can leave an impression, and are an inspiration to work harder.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246080&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="g0BlfRK5Kv0z4QhCwN9V1wMbe2oJquX0zVtmvrvB_hI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rork (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246080">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246081" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386771463"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice,</p> <p>I commented before at AI and so did Narad.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246081&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FRcWBMaeFECFAPXkpkBCVqNVPPs-lwvskWoaQaF6yrk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246081">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246082" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386775393"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>We've got this blogger on The Daily Kos who is in desperate need of some respectful insolence. </p> <p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/10/1261733/-Beef-heart-human-diploid-tissue-air-bags-I-tie-it-all-together#c26">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/10/1261733/-Beef-heart-human-dipl…</a></p> <p>I posted a comment (on the bottom) and replied to Ralphdog a physician who needs our support.</p> <p>Take a look at the dreadful poll...being conducted by the blogger...who is not, of course, anti-vaccine.</p> <p>As an added incentive...one of the groupies at AoA is declaring victory for the Daily Kos blogger.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246082&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N8OxZyqlK0chY5ZrtkIfYJOYIpPCqhCeHqS2hZX5mp0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246082">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246083" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386775952"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Not gonna happen, at least not tomorrow, I'm afraid. I have much bigger fish to fry tomorrow than a clueless sod over at DK. Trust me, you'll see why when you see tomorrow's post.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246083&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5xosJrme-7Z4CwuJmHIeCkDZjfUlWjt3su6mqePo7zo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246083">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246084" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386777522"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Historically, I think I recall reading that the advent of antibiotics for the effective treatment of STDs also caused and quite an uproar with certain groups!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246084&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sv-x3Ad6ZorxhzzWuHrChJ2v6bviIeFvzG18EIMds9I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustNuts (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246084">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246085" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386779229"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Orac:<br /> Oh boy! I think I know exactly what that fish is! Not to worry, I'll keep it zipped. It'll be important enough to make your many loyal minions remark in unison, melodically:"I TOLD you so!"<br /> Not that we'll enjoy doing so.</p> <p>At any rate-<br /> Alain, of course I saw both your own and Narad's comments...<br /> @ dingo 199:<br /> You call it an "intelligence blackhole", I call it a "sinkhole of unreason"..<br /> *Vive la difference!*</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246085&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="14qW6UXqxxux47odS-npc1nY_5_lTuyzoUps_R24SPw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246085">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246086" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386783906"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm not part of Orac's inner circle//sigh.</p> <p>How about some hints about Orac's next topic (fish), Denice?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246086&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sseq-48OcXhQe7n0QALG5ogQEEX6JLtVhPTpblJlfSg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246086">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246087" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386786237"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can hardly wait...I just hope that it's a post on how karma has finally caught up with somebody vile.</p> <p>(There's a long list of candidates for that honor, you must admit).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246087&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GfzlWG8NxnbAJdKv_qg01qg0SCTvVJgWki879UG0C3Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246087">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246088" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386786625"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I agree that it's definitely the sex.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246088&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-ea7JGzVto8YW5HxSH0PuAIhl0spVSC1wB3FMxPaj84"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">The Midwesterner (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246088">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246089" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386786676"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lilady, I know you sometimes feel "technologically challenged", but if you try Twitter (it's not that difficult), you'll see who is the most likely target. Couldn't happen to a more deserving person…</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246089&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eAuYX81hb-5dq1lmVHiN-Zlw42azYHbyYLeLJn10e6c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sheepmilker (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246089">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246090" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386787796"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've never understood the negative reaction to Gardail. I agree it must be about sex - and seeing cancer as a punishment from God for deviant behaviour. I suspect the reason why there hasn't been such a negative reaction is for the following reasons:<br /> 1. Our religious right isn't anywhere near as large. They exist, but I suspect the majority of the population simply enjoy laughing at Fred Nile, and get annoyed when other idiots (can't remember his name and won't go looking for it) claim the Black Saturday Bushfires that killed 173 people is God's punishment for thegay. (did not go down well at all, that one)<br /> 2. Aussies had a large part in it - we like when Aussies do stuff on that kind of a scale. It's normally sport, but this was a cool exception.<br /> 3. It was never really promoted as about a STD, but about Cancer. I think that difference was crucial.<br /> 4. It was free for all females under 25. The idea that we could be free of one particular type of cancer within 100yrs made an impact, and financial sense to the health sector.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246090&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sarsc_zdNarB92Z9xowMr_s57yyQRPnEstWiMMsq-pM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">meg (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246090">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246091" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386790310"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’ve never understood the negative reaction to Gardail. I agree it must be about sex....</p></blockquote> <p>I continue to maintain that an effective HPV vaccine is likely perceived, if in some cases only dimly, by the antivax brigade as an existential threat. The possibility of a filthy vaccine that <i>appeals to young women</i>, their imagined next crop of recruits, cannot be easy to contemplate. The overt derangement that occurs when someone suggests allowing minors to consent on their own tends to reinforce this idea for me, despite its often enough being couched in a reversion to political atavism.</p> <p>I used to see this sort of control fetish at MDC, where juvenile celibacy didn't seem to have been the norm among the commentariat. Sex? Who cares when the breeding is like <a href="http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~geoff/classes/hmc.cs070.200401/votequote.html">voting in Chicago</a>? But <i>you're not getting vaccinated while you're living under my roof</i> (or circumcised, for that matter). Now extend it to a mindset that thinks of itself in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUBnxqEVKlk">these terms</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246091&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jgs1KyTew4-iJcZl10Jm_fYIlxsa0eaRnh1fHTvRZiw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246091">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246092" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386790465"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Meg - I am not a sociologist, but I suspect some of the reaction is because give our young daughters a shot to prevent a sexually transmitted disease means we think they're going to get a sexually transmitted disease. Not only does that mean you think your 11 year old petit fleur will be sleeping around, she'll be doing it with the sort of guys who also sleep around (otherwise THEY wouldn't have the disease to transmit, now would they?). And if you raised your 11 year old daughter with THOSE kinds of values, well, what does that say about you as a parent?</p> <p>I would think the reaction might be different if the recommendation for the immunizations came at, say, age 19.</p> <p>Of course, don't get me started on how a vaccination after age 11 causes you to become autistic at around age 2.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246092&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xe2DzZjTU8fvyacbJX_yFBNCqq0UQAjatiQsjYEbGUA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246092">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246093" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386792349"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I have never understood how some people apparently believe that cervical cancer can be prevented by surgically removing precancerous lesions, but not by preventing those lesions with a vaccine. The mental gymnastics of the True Believer are a miracle to behold.</p> <p>Unrelated, I'm very much hoping that Orac's news is not what I suspect it is.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246093&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R1VJ0zCh76I1wL4f4ukD6fBFB_LcQ9BdPf3kRIZnQDA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246093">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246094" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386795178"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, wasn't there was supposed to have been a sexual revolution about 50 years ago? But I imagine that it's still difficult for some doting parents to believe that their innocent babies would be interested in (( shudder)) doing THAT- esp when the possibility of gay activities arises. </p> <p>But wait, aren't these parents aged 40 years old and up?<br /> Seriously, what were they doing when they were 15 or so? </p> <p>Perhaps there's a way for parents to accept vaccines against HPV ( exclusive of avowed anti-vaxxers, of course) by saying that-<br /> - sometimes young people are forced into sexual situations<br /> - they might have a serious relationship ( even marriage) with a person who doesn't know that he/she is infected.</p> <p>Being realistic, we'd have to include the fact that teenagers have sexual relations more frequently than parents may realise and that that alone is reason enough to vaccinate<br /> PLUS barrier methods ( condoms etc) don't always work for HPV.</p> <p>Yet there are huge obstacles amongst particular groups against being realistic because:<br /> there is often STILL a double standard concerning girls' sexuality<br /> and boys' risks may be thought of as being associated with gay sex more than the so-called 'acceptable' type ( not true).</p> <p>I can't believe that we're talking this way in 2013.<br /> - sigh-</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246094&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_I34o0rpI2Hi_P2md_cROVgEpiexXzvDwtMEcmc4Ji0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246094">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246095" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386795522"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ lilady:</p> <p>HINT: a little bird told me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246095&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5pkLQ1SIGDOjsO0AxvZLLad3jqxGlAgF1EejL2bhiT4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246095">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246096" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386802756"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@meg<br /> The fact that HPV is sexually transmitted is a huge part of the opposition to the vaccine, but it's not limited to religious people, even people I previously thought were rational refused on the grounds that "my kid won't be behaving like that" line with regards to that and the HBV vaccine. If only shoving your fingers in your ears and screaming "la la la, I can't hear you!" were an effective cancer prevention strategy.</p> <p>@Mephistopheles<br /> In my personal experience, age doesn't make much of a difference. My family wasn't happy when I told them I got the vaccine and I was 19.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246096&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aU5uLhIStHq2pikkjew2BnnBiIFywULqWcunCT-k3Kc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sian Williams (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246096">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246097" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386804116"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice Walter: I'm just going to have to wait.</p> <p>I'm probably in the minority here and I do acknowledge how some parents are unrealistic about their kids' sexual activities...that silver ring thing:</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Ring_Thing">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Ring_Thing</a></p> <p>I've certainly made the rounds of all the blogs, threads, MSM sources and more than 95 percent of the commenters who post supporting Katie Couric are anti-vaxxers.</p> <p>Who set up Couric to run with this topic? Who was interviewed to claim injuries and a death caused by Gardasil vaccine...and what are their affiliations with crank anti-vaccine organizations?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246097&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OZegNqKi2C3ap5nWzwzXX4j6dL0UPiQZVXg7wJwVxxU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 11 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246097">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246098" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386834800"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I’ve certainly made the rounds of all the blogs, threads, MSM sources and more than 95 percent of the commenters who post supporting Katie Couric are anti-vaxxers.</p> <p>Who set up Couric to run with this topic? Who was interviewed to claim injuries and a death caused by Gardasil vaccine…and what are their affiliations with crank anti-vaccine organizations?"</p> <p>Ah, yes... you certainly have been all over the blogs, threads, etc.. about this... In fact, do you have a life outside of posting about vaccines? Also, again, I ask... When does an "anti-vaxxer" become an anti-vaxxer? Specifically, in regards to the hpv vaccine. An anti-vaxxer becomes an anti-vaxxer very often only AFTER their child has a bad reaction / is injured / is permanently damaged. How hard is that to understand? By definition (for the most part), an anti-vaxxer would *never* get an hpv vaccine. Ever. Many of the people who I saw commenting all around the blogosphere were parents, relatives, doctors who had issues with that vaccine. Stop being such a moron. And good one on what crank organizations the posters belong to. Meanwhile, you already admitted to being all over the place AND you belong with this crank site. Pot meet kettle.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246098&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2G3BUvrciBtbtEt38Gx4CmMUqDQ9ntyOSS8HzoRxW_g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246098">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246099" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386835852"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Basically its lawyers who get together with their shill doctor and journalists, and place the idea in the media that there is evidence that the vaccine causes damage. </p> <p>People see these reports and some then say 'this is what did it to my son/daughter etc". Then these people are produced by the lawyers, shill doctors and journalists as the evidence of the proposition they made in the first place.</p> <p>And so it goes on. The lawyers and shill doctors say the parents have spoken. The parents say that the lawyers and shill doctors have told them its true.</p> <p>Entirely circular and without evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246099&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mfqWEaCgeNLwk5gMD_omWjQDJ6hTVhfRKQfz44ZhHqg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeff1971 (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246099">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246100" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386835884"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> An anti-vaxxer becomes an anti-vaxxer very often only AFTER their child has a bad reaction / is injured / is permanently damaged. How hard is that to understand? </i></p> <p>They why are there so many who say "I have never and will never get any of my children vaccinated!" ? People are fed lies to scare them. </p> <p><i> Who set up Couric to run with this topic? Who was interviewed to claim injuries and a death caused by Gardasil vaccine…and what are their affiliations with crank anti-vaccine organizations?” </i></p> <p>Producers wanting numbers. Also, see Tarsell and SaneVax as discussed above. Big affliation.</p> <p><i> By definition (for the most part), an anti-vaxxer would *never* get an hpv vaccine. Ever. Many of the people who I saw commenting all around the blogosphere were parents, relatives, doctors who had issues with that vaccine. Stop being such a moron. </i></p> <p>Please, stop. You just contradicted yourself in a matter of two sentences. </p> <p><i> And good one on what crank organizations the posters belong to. Meanwhile, you already admitted to being all over the place AND you belong with this crank site. Pot meet kettle. </i> </p> <p>Being a comments poster on a SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE SITE is not the same COI as Tarsell, running an anti-vax propaganda site based on nothing but a temporal association, which really wasn't even that temporal. The difference? Evidence vs. fear-mongering based on nothing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246100&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Wrt6GXgU38nOEbTFdYQwCYuok6mAM2NM8ULUhgadg3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246100">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246101" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386836220"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"When does an “anti-vaxxer” become an anti-vaxxer?"</p></blockquote> <p>When he or she exaggerates the risks, minimizes the benefits, denies the science, appeals to authority/popularity/etc instead of demonstrating facts, burns strawmen, and/or continues on a fallacy-filled path to try and win over people to the "do not vaccinate" side.</p> <p>It would be one thing if the parents of children who had bad reactions were to say, "Hey, my kid had a reaction. Your milage, based on the evidence, will vary, and it is very likely that you won't have a problem." Then they would not be anti-vaccine. They'd be concerned parents.</p> <p>When they go on blogs, radio, television, put out full-page ads, banners, and tell people to go to anti-vaccine sites like NVIC, Whale.to, or Age of Autism instead of going to science-based sites, and when they say that you will undoubtedly have a bad reaction to a vaccine even when all the evidence shows that you will more than likely won't... That's when they're anti-vaccine.</p> <p>If someone came up to you and guaranteed you a grand prize lottery win no matter what if you just buy ten $2 tickets, would you believe them?</p> <p>And have you seen the Daschelbot's activity on line?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246101&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="whD8qOLLj4Hs2X3ooCJHophDnfNIRe6m1BzG95W7IGk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246101">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246102" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386836734"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> “Hey, my kid had a reaction. Your milage, based on the evidence, will vary, and it is very likely that you won’t have a problem.” Then they would not be anti-vaccine. They’d be concerned parents. </i></p> <p>Oral polio father did that, and the evidence was there, and he made a difference. I would never consider that man antivax, because he wasn't.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246102&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hxDQ4FNp7YKm3jkmbf5utn761se1fLKF6X0JaZpC3HU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246102">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246103" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386838169"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For example, the mother who stated that her <a href="http://nypost.com/2008/07/20/my-girl-died-as-guinea-pig-for-gardasil/">daughter was a guinea pig for gardasil</a> was plain wrong. The vaccine had been tested in <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/05/03/here-is-how-we-know-gardasil-has-not-killed-100-people/">thousands and thousands of people</a> before her daughter was given it. Is it sad that her daughter died? Yes. Does she have a right to be angry as hell? Absolutely. But her rights as a grieving mother stop when she says with no degree of uncertainty that the vaccine was experimental, or that it was the definitive cause of her daughter's death (against all evidence to the contrary and even the VAERS report to which she points us to read), or that your daughter or my sister will have a severe outcome if they get vaccinated.</p> <p>That irrationality based on a rare occurrence -- albeit in a very close, personal situation -- "justified" as it may be, is what turns someone into an anti-vaxxer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246103&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Qju0Yq-QzP0HD8akb-uE2bmfuuMPuQMqepcmCRjuh7Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246103">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246104" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386838351"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Ren - it is like someone getting into a car accident &amp; then starting a campaign to ban all cars as a result.....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246104&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PaZv9ywvFpduHdufoYPLj9Th4Ol7e8j2fpvnKkUTD0E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246104">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246105" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386838991"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Lawrence</p> <p>Yes and no. There are still tens of thousands of deaths and severe injuries from cars the world over.</p> <p>It's more like choking on an acorn shoved down your throat by a guy in a squirrel suit at a furry convention and then wanting to burn down oak forests because, screw the oxygen they give us, those damn acorns are downright dangerous.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246105&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LqcYCYfJEspx5YS5VF_dsRtFVKGwJkiE5wCwM7JzaRE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246105">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246106" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386839408"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Ren - yes, actually a much better analogy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246106&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4Ex0L01mVpk_nyD0PVm64rmzIRGX0sMuA_77J9pwLDQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246106">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246107" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386840634"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>what turns parents into anti-vaxxers?</p> <p>A parent may have suspicions about vaccines and medicine in general BUT<br /> there is an entire nether world of anti-science which has been evolving** since the earliest days of vaccination and which has become - as part of the natural health movement-an extremely lucrative big business. Despite what they tell you.</p> <p>Vaccines involve injecting a substance into a human body- which must invoke a primal fear.</p> <p>Thus pseudo-science relies upon frightening people away from SBM : it is in direct competition for consumers' dollars, pounds and euros ( as well as other currencies). This un-discipline makes use of tracts that cast doubt, by using spurious research, testimonies or made-up concepts, upon any vaccine. Anti-vax is a huge part of alt media which believes that the body should be able to heal itself and that pure foods and supplements boost natural immunity making vaccines unnecessary.</p> <p>For example, today Mike Adams shrieks about NYC requiring flu vaccines for pre-school children. PRN continuously rants against any and all vaccines.- it's nearly a daily feature. More specifically dedicated websites like AoA and TMR focus upon the evils of vaccination and rail publiicly against any realistic mainstream media coverage. This is the background noise which an uncomfortable parent encounters in contradistinction to SBM.</p> <p>Parents have a convenient *bete noire* ( SBM) on which to vent their spleen and to blame for their child's condition and have an enabling support system that supports itself by getting parents involved, selling treatments, supplements, books, legal services, their own expertise and even "safer" vaccines.</p> <p>Many of these proselytisers constantly bark about how pharma and doctors rake in cash because of vaccines which distracts their angered audeince from asking them-<br /> " And how much do YOU earn?"</p> <p> ** I know, not really the best word choice</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246107&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EEaToonGwbUMdBTFc1oAUwbaKH4GSpknZeoPkHrdN2Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246107">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246108" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386840748"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denise - I don't know about you, but I certainly didn't engage in behavior likely to transmit HPV at age 15. Not that I didn't wat to ...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246108&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qn1R10fH02w4m_oc-_QVO8RTnttbOdBrtc0Rf1HhJ_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246108">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246109" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386841143"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Mephistopheles:</p> <p>Maybe that's not really the best nym for you after all.</p> <p>More seriously, how many 15 year olds now, as well as in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s etc are sexually active?- note that that term includes many activities beyond the most obvious.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246109&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3f2RWwrVbSmyM9vpJ997rTfmfCGGzn3BnGmHUF0DprQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246109">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246110" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386842479"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Joyous Times,<br /> Perhaps looking at this a different way might help. The death rate for females at the usual age they are vaccinated with Gardasil is about 20 per 100,000 per year (according to the CDC). This means that if 1 million females were vaccinated with Gardasil during the course of 1 year we would expect to see 200 deaths that had nothing at all to do with Gardasil. The chances of one of these deaths happening within 5 days after vaccination is 200 times 1 in 73 (365/5) i.e. 2.7. So among this sample of a million females, we would expect to see about 3 deaths during the 5 days following vaccination <b>by chance alone</b>. Since severe illnesses are much more common than death in this age group, we would expect to see a lot more severe illnesses shortly after Gardasil again <b>by chance alone</b>. </p> <p>If a teenage girl is vaccinated with Gardasil and two days later she dies or gets very sick, it is quite understandable that her parents might make a connection between the vaccination and their daughter's death or illness. This is even more likely given the publicity that has been given to the idea that Gardasil is dangerous, and that is being spread by you and others. However, many of the deaths that have been reported to VAERS were due to accidents, and others show a clear previous history consistent with a congenital heart defect, or a history of taking the oral contraceptive pill, which we know carries a risk of DVT, and other deaths happened weeks or months after Gardasil. </p> <p>Given this, and the good safety evidence we have from very large clinical trials and global post-marketing surveillance of millions of women given Gardasil, it is almost certain that the reports of deaths after Gardasil are due to chance. That doesn't mean that parents who report this are stupid, or are cranks, it means they are genuinely mistaken and are understandably looking for some explanation for a tragic event. We should be helping them to understand this, instead of blaming an extremely safe vaccine that has the potential to prevent HPV-related cancers that would otherwise lead to thousands of other parents burying their children prematurely.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246110&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CmGaSo5WICpFjPIV1kep2Zba40FZV7oRqJ2hLfA8YVg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246110">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246111" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386842489"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So what turns people into anti-antivaxers?</p> <p>It's things like seeing antivaxers try to get child abusers off the hook for their crimes by blaming vaccines.</p> <p>Case in point - today's story in NaturalNews about a U.K. case where a man was found to have assaulted and killed a baby in his care. If you believe the NN "investigative reporter" it was really the MMR vaccine that caused her massive head trauma and an innocent man was railroaded.</p> <p>The reality is just a wee bit different.</p> <p>"Darryl Elliott, 30, of Stapleford, 'snapped' whilst looking after Amelia and shook her, resulting in a "very, very sick, very damaged brain".</p> <p>"Elliott initially said Amelia fell from the sofa whilst he was out of the room and later said she had slipped and banged her head whilst being lifted from the bath."</p> <p>"Prosecuting, Yvonne Coen QC, told the jury at Nottingham Crown Court that Elliott claimed that upon finding Amelia unconscious he had panicked and shook her five or six times in an attempt to revive her and then smacked her on the back but that this account also did not fit the facts."</p> <p>"Amelia was initially taken to hospital in Grimsby, then transferred to Sheffield Children's Hospital, where she died."</p> <p><a href="http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/Baby-murderer-jailed-minimum-15-years/story-19975468-detail/story.html#axzz2nHCOLZxX">http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/Baby-murderer-jailed-minimum-15-yea…</a></p> <p>I await Joyous Times or any other antivaxer denouncing such attempts to excuse these crimes on the basis of "vaccine injuries".<br /> I've been waiting a long time already.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246111&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n4V-KgNypDXBqHJ4aSg4xuwsmuV0e4qZp2F7A_ndrro"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246111">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246112" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386843854"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's also something to think about:<br /> a rather strait-laced older, person I know well just discovered that she had a lesion related to HPV which had to be removed.</p> <p>In fact, most people DO contract it at some time in their lives. People over a certain age do not have the opportunity to be vaccinated, younger ones do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246112&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RYEF0dHHVIs65dso_k0kzwL3ARnkXVNweqWw_RjdXsk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246112">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246113" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386846709"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"I don’t know about you, but I certainly didn’t engage in behavior likely to transmit HPV at age 15."</p></blockquote> <p>I think we're falling into the biological fallacy. If I didn't do it, or people around me didn't do it, then not that many people did it or no one did it. The problem with that thinking is that enough kids are doing it at the different age ranges to carry it with them and then transmit it later on. So enough kids are getting infected and passing it around at 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, etc.</p> <p>Hence the need for a vaccine that 1) is given before all of this happens, 2) whose effectiveness is long enough for all the years that the most promiscuous around us are, you know, promiscuous, and 3) covers most (all, if possible) of the strains likely to have the worst outcomes.</p> <p>Know what I mean, jellybean?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246113&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KnS2kRn2mzsUd7oruD-vTh2RPy_mzT0mq7N7EfMY408"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246113">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246114" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386847202"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Did anyone here ever counsel teenagers?<br /> Just asking.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246114&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nY4ATVK1l_ladyhmoi3ICZtceHrBPSM5_t_rpRvc5mU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246114">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246115" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386847635"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#69</p> <p>quite a few in my experience. age of consent in the UK is 16 and this is widely recognised as being...erm...closing the stable door after the horse has already whittled itself a key to the padlock.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246115&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="K9QIrtvqAQEbw84a1i-a_LTTsRHJwAcG2ZBmU8eZ9zE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">incitatus (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246115">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246116" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386847925"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#74 i've done pastoral care as a tutor for older teenagers (17-18). I am not sure if this fits with your definition of counselling?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246116&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vVPsoHvpNtlRZ6Ie_Rd1YsITJ_S7ybJY8a5RGPMLb6w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">incitatus (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246116">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246117" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386848138"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm sure it's not that different.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246117&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B6OPHAOhEcvvMYoIZ-PU-huuHRJkyRdrmPnbXhdqJTk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246117">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246118" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386848524"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>by 17-18 the number of non-sexually active folk is a distinct minority. Considered unusual unless from a rather extreme relgious background. Even at 15 even in my day there was a lot of "sexual activity" (rather more of that than actual penetrative sex) taking place. As I understand it the age of consent in the US is rather later (is it the same everywhere or is it state by state?) and this is something that I have always found a bit puzzling...are young people so different over there or is this one of those rules that everyone pretends to follow and no-one does?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246118&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OGwYMBQsg7Hj1R0p5L-2WH6WE-xxx2tTAKJ6ZcnhXfc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">incitatus (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246118">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246119" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386848854"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>all that based on my experience by the way- so beware anecdata</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246119&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Biad9RQTQZNV8pQgcELRXhhWOk5GfXci0sf67ZFIFWQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">incitatus (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246119">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246120" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386849001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>incitatus -- the age varies from state to state, but is usually 15, and many states also have other rules concerning adults and minors; a 20 year old sleeping with a 16 year old may still be charged with statuatory rape in some states, despite 15 being the age of consent. It varies.</p> <p>And don't assume it's just "extreme religious background" that would keep a person a virgin. Shyness can do it too. ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246120&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BXIgVUQShLoebCeLNS9Q_LNfX2hSmFiIrbry_5mOpCM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246120">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246121" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386849446"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I was saying that extreme religious background was when it wasnt considered unusual, not that it was the only excuse. I found that a combination of dispraxia and misanthropy didnt do much to assist in amorous pursuits. But of course from a UK perspective the definition of an extremely religious background is very different from what it would be in the states. Over here a politician who mentions God in a speech is tacitly assumed to be unbalanced so some of the oratory we see coming across the pond from time to time makes interesting viewing......<br /> cultural differences are interesting at times</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246121&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4mP7KxuXbIqFwgf6rU7701_Nf8gaw2QQm8uHxGgJNKk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">incitatus (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246121">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246122" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386850172"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@incitatus </p> <p><i> some of the oratory we see coming across the pond from time to time makes interesting viewing……<br /> cultural differences are interesting at times</i></p> <p>Tell me about it! I've spent 3/4 of my life to date in the USA (the first 1/4 in the UK) and I'm *still* baffled by the place, sometimes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246122&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cA4FyB-XatNjU6iYIP6vzJnlRF_NXpOBFp8yttwgCpw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johanna (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246122">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246123" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386851328"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've counseled teens, when I worked as a public health nurse. We attended classes to enhance our knowledge about STDs, their routes of transmission, use of condoms and mouth dams, testing and treatments.</p> <p>In my State, doctors and nurses who worked in public health clinics were required to take courses for certification as HIV counselors, in order to have vulnerable kids and adults agree to HIV testing and in order to counsel patients about HIV test results.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246123&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SfDeGm10IYUCnHP0W0y5ntZS7eMueEINPLHYIjJgbJk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246123">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246124" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386853874"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Did anyone here ever counsel teenagers?</i></p> <p>Do 18 year old Marines count? Other than making sure they had plenty of condoms when they went out in the ville, there wasn't a whole lot I could do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246124&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oyFIUoF7Ur224mZjdj-D8odnRCPIj8XVMRvDE_3BO5Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246124">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246125" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386853885"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice Walter: "Did anyone here ever counsel teenagers?"</p> <p>When I was in 8th grade we had some sex education. The biggest example was the classmate who already had a baby, and was scheduled to get married after she turned fourteen.</p> <p>I knew of at least a couple of pregnant classmates in tenth grade. And in my last high school many of my classmates were married, to soldiers. Part of the joys of being a military brat and living in places which start with the word "Fort", where booms of artillery fire echo in the distance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246125&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mf345JSyBer38HlWdjf9ORtX4IbY5gZiDZW_EsXyTD8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246125">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246126" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386854038"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Funny how my comment came after Shay's. Some of those soldiers driving the tanks and aiming the artillery were kids who got married in high school and found the military a way to provide. Unfortunately the low pay does qualify them for food stamps. At least it was thirty five years ago.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246126&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CJNA1EZokMPOdtu-SqQszOYQTkvl18F3CmQp_jU0pnE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246126">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246127" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386856557"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yeah, the subtext wasn't very subtle, I'll admit, incitatus, but I didn't even kiss a guy until adulthood, and I was kinda bristling a little at being told that's unusual. Just because lots of people have sex as teens doesn't mean you should be made to feel weird if you didn't.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246127&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WHSQ0cR_0ED-5eeHD7cO_Tq6K3OXKfyT-lBtqU85J_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246127">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246128" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386859261"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ incitatus:</p> <p>It's state by state, but they've become pretty uniform. When I was the age where it was relevant, I remember looking it up. Most civilized states the age of consent was 16, in the Deep South it was 12, in Delaware it was 7 (!) There were only a couple of benighted backwaters like California and Alaska where it was 18.</p> <p>Now it seems to be 18 pretty much everywhere. Different states have different rules about how much older one partner is—if you're not more than two years older then 16 is OK—but some states are straight 18. I don't know what happened.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246128&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H09DiTOY7v2z3ZBlDEkwbW4JWXH0EjphTbfzQ1QniVM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246128">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246129" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386859503"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#80 Or calculated risk avoidance. </p> <p>I liked having a 0 percent chance of pregnancy and a 0 percent chance of an STD. It beats even a 1 percent chance in terms of being totally worry-free.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246129&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bALOGhB1YuWiai-APdOxM_cAIt94phr-MPyKx-4V2Mw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Khani (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246129">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246130" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386859517"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I just finished talking to 11-14 year-olds about sexual education at a school in the inner city. Let me tell you... The level of misinformation in those kids. Whew!</p> <p>At the end of every class, we ask them to write down a question on a 3x5 card and it will be answered the following week. The questions that these kids ask are astounding. Today, though, there was one that took the cake:</p> <p>"Why does the government find cures for stuff with my money but hide it from us to keep us sick?"</p> <p>Anyone want to come over next week and answer that one?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246130&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JoVEwD5edJXJEMGVpinoQgYTGCcca6UmNnXv4jPfulE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246130">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246131" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386863330"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The US in general has a very weird prudish right wing Christian culture. I am sure that is the main reason that HPV vaccine is taboo as it talks about the sex. On a side note, I was not sexually active in high school but met my husband my first year in college. I grew up in TX and let me tell you some of the sex 'educators' we had were priceless. Most talks boiled down to 'all sex is evil, if you have sex you will get a nasty squiggly disease, no methods of contraception work, and BTW if you have sex you will definitely toast for eternity in the fires of hell'. What made this all the more surreal was the fact that every time we had a speaker there was at least one (usually more) pregnant female students in the audience. Showing that many of my classmates were already engaging in sex. Without the benefit of a condom which were difficult and expensive to get. No one in my town gave them out for free, and buying them meant eternal embarrassment plus the very high likelihood that someone in the store would see you with the box and promptly tell your parents. I plan to get my son vaccinated as soon as he is 11. I don't want him getting cancer either.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246131&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bRAk5Odi-wdBdilK72nvTN6-aQ9GBAavfJdF_JO_UHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kiiri (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246131">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246132" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386864652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Kiiri, in this year of grace 2013 the only place a teenager can get condoms, no embarrassment and no questions asked, in the small (pop 1100) Illinois village where I live is the lady who runs the town beauty shop.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246132&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7qI-vh_kD7X5MHqE-HDsLCZieI-9T5qk5BRK5t-iKkc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246132">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246133" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386865035"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I just finished talking to 11-14 year-olds about sexual education at a school in the inner city...The questions that these kids ask are astounding. Today, though, there was one that took the cake:</p> <p>“Why does the government find cures for stuff with my money but hide it from us to keep us sick?”</p> <p>Anyone want to come over next week and answer that one?"</p> <p>Yes. Say kid, would you like to be smarter than the arrested development adult who fed you that line? We've got a couple of great websites for you to hang out at...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246133&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1HAJ77MMLBFsWb2irHx7UYeKeC3rhCEZJ1SQtnxy830"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246133">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246134" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386866396"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"We’ve got a couple of great websites for you to hang out at…"</p></blockquote> <p>I do sometimes wonder what the next generation of Oracolytes will look like?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246134&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3TNGm0RPX-73LvijsZ1NaoeIq6JHjpH0GDQYYOX0IvQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246134">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246135" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386869531"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Kiiri: "I grew up in TX and let me tell you some of the sex ‘educators’ we had were priceless."</p> <p>Oh, yeah. My last year of high school was in Killeen, TX. It just happens to be right next to one of the largest military bases in the USA. It was a weird place to be a freaky geek, but I survived with the help of other freaky geeky friends.</p> <p>I turned down a date from a friend's brother, who was a tank gunner. But I did go out with her other brother who was an engineering student. This apparently confused the tank gunner brother.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246135&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZL4hq4q-AQMfTIAs3s1qJCBq517Nr_XcTjochEUVUGc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246135">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246136" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386871478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shay: Yeah I once got in immense trouble with my sister for telling her soon to be teenaged son that I would buy the condoms and provide them no questions asked as long as he promised to use them for every sexual encounter. Of course his mom now has a daughter just 5 months older than my son (currently 2) and he lived in the house with both small children for a while. He now has graphic proof of why he doesn't want one of his own! Leaving a teenager to care for an infant is the best method of preventing pregnancy. It's all fun and games until your baby sister pukes in your hair. That particular episode left me and my sister in helpless gales of laughter while the teen boy screamed like a little girl shouting "get her off!" over and over. So funny. Did get him to shower and wash his hair though which is a battle we have fought over and over again. The joy of teen boys who think that not showering for three days can be covered up by vigorous spraying of Axe.<br /> Chris: Yeah, I embraced more of my geeky side in college with the help of my uber geek husband but in HS I did have a small group of friends to help combat the generally odd culture. Now I am a certified sci-fi, fantasy, all things Doctor Who, gamer chic. When I get my 2014 calendar up I am going to start counting down to the release date of ESO soon to become our next gaming obsession.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246136&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y8sgsfmFxBJCWEtvNsS97BxinpCfzVp5dFA8CxjGXw0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kiiri (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246136">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246137" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386873945"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey, now, Chris -- Some of my best friends are tankers. My maid of honor was a tanker.</p> <p>Named Dave.</p> <p>(this is what you get when you let an infantryman plan a wedding).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246137&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7XFleFgDLtiJZiUGV0OU3A1SgvCzfSC0oTgE5HSO714"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246137">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246138" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386874980"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shay, sorry. The choice was a bit frightening for my seventeen year old self. Especially when I was told he leered at me after I left the gathering at their house.</p> <p>To put it in perspective: my friends and I were in the only physics class in the school of 2000 students. My start of school was delayed by a day because they had too many requests for trigonometry, and had to create another class. </p> <p>Oh, I did go out with a soldier just a month later in Arizona. Part of my brother's group from his chapel (he was in the Signal Corps). It was interesting, but I much preferred the prospects in college. Even though in a college of engineering the odds are good, the goods are odd (but in the way I like).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246138&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hKiWE6NlluQfAR0gDlnoS6__8ZRKyenfPdD5WfgLVno"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246138">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246139" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386875759"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Even though in a college of engineering the odds are good, the goods are odd (but in the way I like).</i></p> <p>I should feel right at home at McGill's engineering campus in a few years :D</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246139&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MVcxntMEAm4VfvtEAmi0InokZbdstqmtqC-cvlxCySM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246139">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246140" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386878497"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ren #73:</p> <blockquote><blockquote>“I don’t know about you, but I certainly didn’t engage in behavior likely to transmit HPV at age 15.”</blockquote> <p>I think we’re falling into the biological fallacy. If I didn’t do it, or people around me didn’t do it, then not that many people did it or no one did it. The problem with that thinking is ...</p></blockquote> <p>That was just a little self-deprecating jest by Mephistopheles. Not that you are incorrect in pointing out that such thinking would be a fallacy, but Mephistopheles wouldn't fall into that error.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246140&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m2DDk3VdTu64ngG4eSGli1FDXUJhO0GmyAPulZh-7u4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246140">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246141" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386879159"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What DID I start here? Oh well.</p> <p>Do parental attitudes about teenage sexuality and HPV vaccination reflect regional/ national differences? Ha.</p> <p>Ren, I certainly don't envy your position but I have had to educate teens/ at risk populations about hiv a while ago.<br /> Not the worse task in the world.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246141&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SZ2VKWlrq8qA5Ldk-fUq3UI5GLP2LvPPK8Bm1qtq2FM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246141">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246142" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386879247"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When anybody says: "My kids would never do that!" ask them: "What about their future husbands?"</p> <p>I have so many people tell me: "I grew up in ___, I know how to drive in snow!" I always say: "You don't have to run into them, they can run into you."</p> <p>This is <i>always</i> a completely new thought for them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246142&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W2rwFkcQFTHP6YuEedEcObqVBG-L17GrWxYw6eWOp-c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 12 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246142">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246143" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386911935"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Part of my brother’s group from his chapel (he was in the Signal Corps). It was interesting....</p></blockquote> <p>Semaphore, or Morse?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246143&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VMYEKc3F4U-zM_a0q2ZOlW0sIeGoDgh61XCJ_UlJwNA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246143">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246144" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386919051"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>my daughter is 8. we have already had preliminary talks with her about sex and sexuality ( 2 of her naming sponsors are gay, which means we had to explain why uncles x and y didnt have aunts in tow) and explained the mechanics. this is because even at her age there is a lot of playground misinfo going around and, frankly, we wanted her to have the facts to be in a position of power. There are some awesome books around that explain it to youngsters.<br /> I have absolutely no problem with doing this- she is bright and knows there is a lot of human behaviour around sex that she doesnt understand. Informing her demystifies it ( as well as making it a little more clear why mummy and daddy prefer to close their bedroom door and have people knock before charging in with teddybears).<br /> I know people who would be shocked at what we talk about, calmly, with her. Who would find it bizarre that we give info to her before she "needs"it. I have to say i find those people to be, in my mind, whack jobs of the highest order. How do you know when she needs it? I dont remember filling in a form for my parents informing them of my intent to canoodle.<br /> Its the same for me with HPV. I frogmarched my neice down to the GP to get hers (her dad was supportive, her mum was of the wait-till camp). I would do the same for my nephew if it was available at the time ( i suspect, from his faebook page, that its WAAAAYY too late now) and my daughter is getting hers asap. For me there isnt a too soon, just a too late.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246144&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="205t_aQDeyA_Re_BissaF9gCWtSxtx9cxaSNOslb6_o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">incitatus (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246144">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246145" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386925102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Chris and Shay --</p> <p>Hey, some tankers happened to have been PC geeks (and therefore defacto company clerks) and then gone on to particularly geeky professions, yanno... :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246145&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tO2Xxx3U8AOAKzjosmcJCBvj2GlTh-gx2kecMXYUJuE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Scottynuke (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246145">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246146" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386933506"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad: "Semaphore, or Morse?"</p> <p>VHF, and then DARPA invented the internet.</p> <p>Yes, Scottynuke, I am aware of some of that. Most of the technicians you get in any communications company started out as military recruits right out of high school. Which did not exist when I was seventeen years old almost forty years ago.</p> <p>My point is that kids even way back when we were supposed to be perfect little chaste teenagers who waited until marriage is pure fantasy. It is just that I usually lived near large barracks full of teenagers, and went to high school with some of their wives. (and the barracks now look more like college dorms)</p> <p>By the way, if anyone ever goes to visit Arizona and is near the Tombstone and Bisbee area, be sure to visit both <a href="http://huachucamuseum.com/">museums in Ft. Huachuca</a>. The main museum deals with the history of Buffalo Soldiers, and the second is the Army Intelligence Museum. </p> <p>And since the subject is vaccines, be sure to visit the cemetery. There is a pdf page on its history, but I am getting 503 errors when accessing the ".mil" pages there. It seems their computer grunts are having issues. But here is <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MBiSb4aAcGIJ:huachuca-www.army.mil/files/History_Cemetery.pdf+&amp;cd=3&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a">its Google cache</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246146&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hVdpk01z4h5oQyyi7gkvZVcd0ugMrEZEMnz5QiExoBw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246146">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246147" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386933864"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Scottynuke -- you were a Remington Raider, then?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246147&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wVmsr_ZEAJqLfYcvIp0kfWJJy4EVO76gaQ3uYSBJVhY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246147">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246148" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386937788"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>incitatus</p> <blockquote><p> There are some awesome books around that explain it to youngsters.</p></blockquote> <p>Titles or authors? I could use some recommendations for those.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246148&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CRT2IkFVrHNGLEJBbUKiv4YLS8wRs8Loh9iXR2GPpsQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chemmomo (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246148">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246149" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386943249"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>LW - thanks for that. You understood completely.</p> <p>Ren - At no time have I ever said (in this or any other forum) that just because I didn't do it it never happens and is not a significant issue.</p> <p>Denice - re "Maybe that’s not really the best nym for you after all." I am crushed, <i>crushed</i> to know that I have disappointed you so. I will try to do, er, worse...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246149&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tBZojFuTRYJp2sUbCTZgdhwISt2NWbSNtto-5pB96vQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246149">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246150" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386963405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Shay -- Actually, it was an IBM PC, so that would have made me... PC Pirate, mayhap? :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246150&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c-9AnBzN5uhxZ8oMd7zkzTj6CuoX5j38_FZok7jY50c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Scottynuke (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246150">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246151" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386966267"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Mephistopheles:</p> <p>Next thing you'll be telling me that you're not really a descendant of the 'Great Uniter', Briain.<br /> BUT I'm sure that you're ALREADY doing something bad enough to meet with my approval.</p> <p>I'm easy enough to please.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246151&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E6kRPm__9QLhSPn2f-RC0wT9eejGG-XBFf04q1F95JI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246151">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246152" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386967003"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Scottynuke: "@Shay — Actually, it was an IBM PC, so that would have made me… PC Pirate, mayhap? :-)"</p> <p>That is what they turned my brother into! Sure he started out by putting up VHF radio towers, but then he got to drive a PC. The Army paid for his computer science degree.*</p> <p>He still had to keep up his firearms qualifications.</p> <p>* As someone who started college right after the end of the Vietnam war, many of my classmates were also going to college with the then version of the GI Bill as veterans... or as active duty servicemen. They came in all sorts of forms, and the first one I met had been a medic and was not happy that folks were surprised that he was going to major in nursing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246152&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rM4Zd1fqh9_9yw6KbgwZEsUXlus0DVVGZXxGEZyDhCo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246152">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246153" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1387011610"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In the fourth sentence, the phrase "loose their minds", caused me to stop reading your article.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246153&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cZXXjqAiXbOwrON0_YP-wJUBBpwDBPpxP02-HSHh3KQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">bob smith (not verified)</span> on 14 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246153">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246154" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1387016040"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm so impressed that a typo has such a nasty effect on you. You do realize, don't you, that grammar, spelling, and typo flames are the absolutely lamest comments. They contribute nothing and only reveal the person who made them to be a pompous ass.</p> <p>But, hey, just for you, I fixed it. You can read the article now without your eyes being offended by a typo. Do you have anything substantive to say now?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246154&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="73P8XwY47OWwOtdhA_IbfIYWny9h8-4jkNpcA6SpGj8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 14 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246154">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246155" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1387020292"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chemmomo: Changing Bodies, Changing Lives (Ruth Bell) was an excellent book for most ages. My daughters read it in elementary (as a CNM it was on the bookshelf and I never restricted their reading) but it had a clear discussion with no judgement on lifestyles. I haven't read it recently and see there is a 3rd edition out, but outside of being a little "crunchy" in areas, I found it excellent and have recommended it many times. (It was inspired by "Our Bodies, Ourselves by the Boston Women's Collective, and is a very similar type book).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246155&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xVTJRV9I4cc7kHu3w0ql6J783B4pYVKNHq3NmidA6vs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 14 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246155">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246156" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1387031753"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shay -- not only did I have to keep up my personal quals, I still had to crew a tank! *L*</p> <p>Then the higher-ups figured out I was highly literate and well-spoken and they put me on the radio... the rest is history! :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246156&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KA3AyWnU0eBdeQGyaccPUQ_s6IH1EleVeMJQ0KzgijU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Scottynuke (not verified)</span> on 14 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246156">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246157" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1387035970"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>VHF, and then DARPA invented the internet.</p></blockquote> <p>That was actually supposed to be a mildly off-color joke. I hadn't previously known that HF packet radio has the whole 44.0.0.0/8 CIDR netblock, though.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246157&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="b_X5nCOLnddRJH1vCsVBqXcVE3VOQzcy1GNJI4pkAuc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246157">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246158" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1388424777"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's the thing, I had no idea there was an entire program dedicated to those who have adverse reactions to immunizations and vaccines until I began working for a great attorney who has been working with these patients for years in the National Injury Compensation Program. This program is there to help those patients who have experienced these horrendous side effects. There are guidelines and not everyone meets those guidelines. There is a 3 year statute of limitations and symptoms must last for at least 6 months. Those are the two major factors. I am not sure how they decided 3 years was adequate because I speak with a ton of parents whose daughters were vaccinated in 2007-2009 that are having serious symptoms and there is nothing we can do to help them. Plus, these symptoms and adverse reactions are UNDER REPORTED!! The government and manufacturers aren't going to listen to complaints unless they see it on paper and in numbers. </p> <p>As a mom, my daughter had the vaccine without consequences, but I felt pushed into allowing it because of all of the hype of Gardisil and how it would protect her, etc. As parents AND patients, we are supposed to make decisions based on informed consent. That is generally not what happens. We are not given time to research Influenza vaccines, Tetanus, Dtap, Pertussis and so on. </p> <p>As a paralegal that works with these patients/clients, we have just as many, if not MORE that experience life-threatening and life altering disease processes, including Guillian Barre (Paralysis) from Influenza vaccines. There are studies that say there is no link to serious or ongoing side effects from Gardisil but there are those that say the exact same thing about Influenza. I talk to people every single day that DO and can prove their symptoms. To spite what 'studies say'. </p> <p>I can attest to both. Millions of people are vaccinated every day and do just fine. However, there is a small population of people that DO have side effects, horrible ones. And, these symptoms can and are very difficult to diagnose. Many doctors are reluctant to relate it directly to the vaccines. Maybe out of ignorance and lack of knowledge about it or maybe out of fear of being sued. Doctors are not, successfully, sued because they gave vaccinations or immunizations. </p> <p>Point being, there is no right or wrong as far as what is happening to these girls. I can tell you that thousands of young women are experiencing very similar symptoms and they need help. </p> <p>It is always prudent to do your own research as a parent and a patient. Be informed. Period. Especially before posting statements that are ridiculous and based on ego and ignorance. </p> <p>Just sayin...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246158&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5PyLk7F876t1L9G-LAEtYKEggi1Xkvqxh3n9pC4sOdo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jodi Moss (not verified)</span> on 30 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246158">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1246159" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1388981600"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@jodi Moss:</p> <blockquote><p>There is a 3 year statute of limitations and symptoms must last for at least 6 months. Those are the two major factors. I am not sure how they decided 3 years was adequate because I speak with a ton of parents whose daughters were vaccinated in 2007-2009 that are having serious symptoms and there is nothing we can do to help them.</p></blockquote> <p>Three years is a generous length of time. If those girls were vaccinated in 2007-2009, then it is extremely unlikely that the vaccine caused the problem.</p> <blockquote><p>Plus, these symptoms and adverse reactions are UNDER REPORTED!!</p></blockquote> <p>Citation needed, especially since VAERS has had false reports inserted into it.</p> <blockquote><p>[W]e are supposed to make decisions based on informed consent. That is generally not what happens. We are not given time to research Influenza vaccines, Tetanus, Dtap, Pertussis and so on.</p></blockquote> <p>Really? You do not get contacted before your children's vaccination visits to notify you? Or you're contacted such a short time before that you have no time to look it up on the internet or go to the library? Sorry, but I find your claim implausible.</p> <blockquote><p>we have just as many, if not MORE that experience life-threatening and life altering disease processes, including Guillian Barre (Paralysis) from Influenza vaccines. There are studies that say there is no link to serious or ongoing side effects from Gardisil but there are those that say the exact same thing about Influenza. I talk to people every single day that DO and can prove their symptoms.</p></blockquote> <p>Prove their symptoms? Nice Weasel Words. How many of them have proven their symptoms were <i>caused</i> by the vaccinations? Of those, how many of those cases have you taken to the NVICP, and how many have you won?</p> <blockquote><p>there is a small population of people that DO have side effects.</p></blockquote> <p>Nobody is denying that. Heck, that's why the US <i>has</i> a program to compensate the people who are injured by vaccines.</p> <blockquote><p>And, these symptoms can and are very difficult to diagnose. Many doctors are reluctant to relate it directly to the vaccines.</p></blockquote> <p>Here's the thing: there have been loads of cases where the vaccine was blamed for something or other, only for research to find that the vaccine was blameless. Case in point: the DTP vaccine was blamed for seizures which later turned out to have been caused by Dravet Syndrome.</p> <blockquote><p>Point being, there is no right or wrong as far as what is happening to these girls. I can tell you that thousands of young women are experiencing very similar symptoms and they need help.</p></blockquote> <p>What evidence do you have that vaccines are causing these problems?</p> <blockquote><p>It is always prudent to do your own research as a parent and a patient. Be informed. Period. Especially before posting statements that are ridiculous and based on ego and ignorance.</p></blockquote> <p>My irony and hypocrisy meters just exploded.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1246159&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="h--BPrHJPT4zwrmbHq3k2WOAq7ke711HIVUexNQYv3c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 05 Jan 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1246159">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2013/12/11/the-katie-couric-apology-about-her-segment-on-hpv-and-hpv-vaccines%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 11 Dec 2013 02:00:10 +0000 oracknows 21679 at https://scienceblogs.com Katie Couric on the HPV vaccine: Antivaccine or irresponsible journalist? You be the judge! https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/12/05/katie-couric-on-the-hpv-vaccine-antivaccine-or-irresponsible-journalist-you-be-the-judge <span>Katie Couric on the HPV vaccine: Antivaccine or irresponsible journalist? You be the judge!</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm not really happy to have to write this post, but a blogger's got to do what a blogger's got to do. The reason is that Katie Couric has done something requires—nay, demands—a heapin' helpin' of Orac's characteristic Respectful Insolence. Why should I give the proverbial rodent's posterior about who gets the Insolence today? The reason is that, when it comes to medicine, Katie Couric has done a fair amount of good. After the tragic death of her husband at a young age from colon cancer, she became an activist and spokesperson for colorectal cancer awareness, even famously undergoing her very own on-air colonoscopy in 2000. Then, in 2005, as part of Breast Cancer Awareness Month, she similarly underwent mammography on the air on the <em>Today Show</em>. She was even one of the co-founders of Stand Up To Cancer (SU2C). Indeed, I saw her <a href="http://www.aacr.org/home/public--media/aacr-in-the-news.aspx?d=3095">accept the AACR Award for Distinguished Public Service</a> earlier this year. In brief, Katie Couric was supposed to be one of the good guys, and usually she is.</p> <p>There is, however a somewhat darker side. Couric tolerated the notorious antivaccine reporter Sharyl Attkisson for years, even after Attkisson demonstrated that she was an Andrew Wakefield fangirl and dropped stinky bombs of <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/06/19/antivaccination-crankery-on-the-cbs-news-1/">burning stupid on the blogosphere</a> about vaccines in the form of <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/09/10/cbs-news-resident-anti-vaccine-propagand/">abusing the Hannah Poling case</a> and promoting Helen Ratajczak's <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/04/05/the-resident-anti-vaccine-reporter-at-cb/">mind-numbingly scientifically ignorant "review" of the evidence regarding vaccines and autism</a>, among numerous other examples. She even once pulled the classic crank tactic of the "pharma shill gambit" on Paul Offit and "vaccine defenders" in a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/07/28/more-execrable-journalism-about-vaccines/">despicable journalistic hit piece</a> called <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/25/cbsnews_investigates/main4296175.shtml">How Independent Are Vaccine Defenders?</a> When pro-vaccine groups complained, someone at CBS News, likely Attkisson, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/08/01/sharyl-attkisson-of-cbs-and-generation-r/">passed the complaint along to the antivaccine cranks at AoA</a>.</p> <!--more--><p>So, despite her good works on the cancer front, I wasn't entirely surprised to see alarmed warnings that Katie Couric was going to do a segment on the vaccine against the human papilloma virus (HPV) from people like <a href="http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2013/12/03/katie-couric-promotes-dangerous-fear-mongering-with-show-on-the-hpv-vaccine/">Seth Mnookin</a>. The segment appears to be an installment of something Couric calls The Big Conversation, and the story was entitled T<a href="http://katiecouric.com/2013/12/04/the-hpv-vaccine-controversy-rosie-perez/">he HPV Vaccine Controversy</a>, and it contained segments like Is the <a href="http://katiecouric.com/videos/is-the-hpv-vaccine-safe/">HPV Vaccine Safe?</a> Because I have a day job and can't watch vapid daytime TV, I DVRed the episode and watched it, just so that I could report on it for you. The things I do for my readers! Then it popped up online, so that you, too, can share my pain.</p> <p>It was even worse than I thought it was going to be, and I knew it was going to be bad when it was advertised as having a mother who thought that Gardasil killed her daughter. And so it did. What I didn't realize is that Couric also had one of the founders of the anti-HPV vaccine crank blog <a href="http://sanevax.org">SaneVax</a> on her show, <a href="http://sanevax.org/media-about/who/">Rosemary Mathis</a>, and her daughter Lauren. If you want to get an idea of just how much quackery and pseudoscience is promoted by SaneVax, just search this blog for the term. I'll just give you two examples. First, SaneVax latched onto a dubious finding of trace amounts of HPV DNA in Gardasil to launch a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/09/06/oh-no-theres-dna-in-my-gardasil/">fear mongering campaign of such monumental ignorance</a> about molecular biology and science itself that it was breathtaking in its scope. Then about a year ago, SaneVax published a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/24/despicable-a-parents-guide-to-fishing-for-proof-that-vaccines-kill/">guide to blaming the deaths of children on Gardasil</a>. I kid you not. The title of the despicable article was <a href="http://sanevax.org/a-parents-guide-what-to-do-if-your-child-dies-after-vaccination/">A Parent’s Guide: What to do if your child dies after vaccination</a>. More recently, SaneVax published an article entitled <a href="http://sanevax.org/vaccine-injury-law-gardasil-hpv-daughter-suspect-premature-ovarian-failure/" rel="nofollow">Gardasil HPV: What to Do If You or Your Daughter Suspect Premature Ovarian Failure</a>, another <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/10/30/ovarian-failure-caused-by-gardasil-not-so-fast/">bogus claim made about Gardasil</a> by antivaccinationists.</p> <p>One of the founders of this group was one of the mothers Couric interviewed as an equal to a real pediatrician. Yes, the entire segment was structured as a "he said, she said" tour de force of false "balance." On the one hand, we have two anti-HPV mothers, one who thinks that the HPV vaccine killed her daughter and the other who thinks it injured her and as a result helped form a website that spreads the vilest, most idiotic pseudoscientific fear mongering about HPV imaginable. On the other side, there was a lone pediatrician trying to promote science-based medicine and a mother who had her daughter vaccinated and didn't regret it. Somewhere in the middle, but not really given what she says, is Diane Harper, represented as having been integral to the development of Gardasil. In reality, Harper is on the anti-HPV side and, being represented as the definitive Gardasil authority, weighs heavily on the message, even though she doesn't get the last say.</p> <p>The segment starts with Couric asking, "Have you all heard about the controversy surrounding the HPV vaccine?" I'm half tempted to answer here, "No." The reason is that, scientifically speaking, there is no "controversy." The HPV vaccine, be it Gardasil or Cervarix, is effective and incredibly safe. The whole "controversy" is not a controversy at all, but rather a <a href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Manufactroversy">manufactroversy</a>, and Couric does her part in promoting that manufactroversy through the tried and not-so-true technique of false balance.</p> <p>That balance starts out with an interview with an interview with Emily Tarsell, whose daughter Christina died unexpectedly at the age of 21. Tarsell has been telling the world that she thinks Gardasil killed her daughter for quite some time now, <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/08/marie-mccormicks-iom-remarks-leave-a-bitter-taste.html">telling the Institute of Medicine</a>, having her story featured on website of the the antivaccine group <a href="http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/HPV/christina.aspx" rel="nofollow">National Vaccine Information Center</a> (NVIC). Couric begins, as is appropriate, by expressing sympathy for Tarsell's loss. It's always horrible when a parent loses a child. Even recognizing that, this interview was pretty pointless, consisting mainly of going on and on about how awesome Christina was and how awful it was that she died. Emily Tarsell did not present a single shred of evidence that Gardasil had anything to do with her death, and when Couric asked her what her daughter's symptoms were, she demurred, refusing to answer, "Because we have a case pending, I cannot go into detail what happened each time," referring to each dose of Gardasil. All we learn is that Emily died suddenly 18 days after receiving her third dose of Gardasil, and that the autopsy failed to find a cause of death. You can see it all <a href="http://katiecouric.com/videos/was-the-hpv-vaccine-responsible-for-one-girls-death/">here</a>:</p> <div align="center"> <object id="flashObj" width="630" height="354" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,47,0"><param name="movie" value="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&amp;isUI=1" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#FFFFFF" /><param name="flashVars" value="videoId=2893697164001&amp;linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkatiecouric.com%2Fvideos%2Fwas-the-hpv-vaccine-responsible-for-one-girls-death%2F&amp;playerID=1778770226001&amp;playerKey=AQ~~,AAABWfWhrnk~,FtZztaNxIqTVkSb1ju2Ka7JVAY8r79nB&amp;domain=embed&amp;dynamicStreaming=true" /><param name="base" value="http://admin.brightcove.com" /><param name="seamlesstabbing" value="false" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="swLiveConnect" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&amp;isUI=1" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashvars="videoId=2893697164001&amp;linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkatiecouric.com%2Fvideos%2Fwas-the-hpv-vaccine-responsible-for-one-girls-death%2F&amp;playerID=1778770226001&amp;playerKey=AQ~~,AAABWfWhrnk~,FtZztaNxIqTVkSb1ju2Ka7JVAY8r79nB&amp;domain=embed&amp;dynamicStreaming=true" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="630" height="354" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" swliveconnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object></div> <p>Of course, what isn't mentioned is that Emily Tarsell is on the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/TheCanaryParty/posts/748879335139447?ref=notif&amp;notif_t=notify_me">board of directors of the antivaccine political group known as the Canary Party</a>, which was <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/12/04/the-mummers-farce-that-was-the-congressional-autism-hearing-last-week/">behind the effort</a> to <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/09/18/the-antivaccine-movement-tries-to-buy-political-influence/" rel="nofollow">have a Congressional hearing</a> in front of the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/11/08/antivaccinationists-brief-congressional-staffers-and-the-misinformation-flows/">House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, chaired by Darrell Issa</a>. Fortunately, it failed. <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/11/21/sometimes-good-things-happen-the-antivaccine-fringe-suffers-a-setback-in-congress/">This time</a>. Of course, up until now, Tarsell has not been shy at all about telling her daughter's story in detail. For example:</p> <div align="center"> <iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mqZNhOclixc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></div> <p>Here we learn that Tarsell didn't think about Gardasil as the cause of her daughter's death until weeks later, when a family member mentioned reports of Gardasil and that Tarsell remembered that her daughter had complained of not feeling well after the shot. What was wrong? She said she was tired and felt dizzy when she stood up.</p> <p>Then there's this video:</p> <div align="center"> <iframe id="viddler-a9f9b90e" src="//www.viddler.com/embed/a9f9b90e/?f=1&amp;offset=0&amp;autoplay=0&amp;disablebranding=0" width="545" height="488" frameborder="0" mozallowfullscreen="true" webkitallowfullscreen="true"></iframe></div> <p>Here, we learn that a few days after the third Gardasil vaccine, Emily felt dizzy and complained of fatigue. These are very vague symptoms, and could be due to many things. As tragic as it is and as much sympathy as we all feel for Tarsell, her story is a perfect example of the <a href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Post_hoc,_ergo_propter_hoc" rel="nofollow">post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy</a>. Just because Christina Tarsell received Gardasil before she died unexpectedly does not mean Gardasil caused her death. It doesn't even mean that it caused her vague symptoms of fatigue. In fact, given the literature out there, it almost certainly didn't.</p> <p>Next up was Diane Harper. After seeing Harper in action on Katie Couric's show, I now take back the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/16/yet-another-antivaccine-meme-rises-from-the-grave-again-no-diane-harper-doesnt-hate-gardasil/" rel="nofollow">benefit of the doubt</a> that I gave her, particularly after her crack later in the show that pediatricians are "trained to give vaccines, not trained to do Pap smears." Besides being wrong, it's a quote so full of burning stupid—yes, I'm calling Harper out on that—that I change my mind. Harper has become a crank, and she does now hate Gardasil. In essence, her argument was that, because only 10% of women with HPV infection develop chronic infection, why vaccinate? She also points out that approximately 10% of girls acquire HPV before their 11th birthday, which is when the first dose of Gardasil is recommended to begin.</p> <p>Her biggest trope, however, is that HPV vaccines "only" last five years. There is simply no reason to believe that is true. The reality is that HPV vaccines haven't been licensed long enough to know how long vaccine-induced immunity persists. Even so, although we might not yet know how long HPV vaccine immunity will last, but we do know that the duration of vaccine coverage (95%) protection <a href="http://www.infectagentscancer.com/content/8/1/22" rel="nofollow">remains at least five years</a>. Indeed, a <a href="http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/studies-demonstrate-gardasil-has-long-duration-of-protection-from-hpv-disease-182323031.html">recent analysis of nearly 5,000 women</a> on Nordic countries found that Gardasil “is effective up to 6 years following vaccination with a trend of continuing protection up to 8 years following vaccination,” and <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2013/12/04/four-ways-katie-couric-stacked-the-deck-against-gardasil/">Matthew Herper</a> points out that an analysis by also indicates that people still have immune responses 8 years after getting the shot.</p> <p>The rest of the time, Harper seems to have a magical faith in the ability of Pap smears to catch cervical lesions early enough to allow interventions that prevent progression to full-blown cancer. While this is true in a perfect world (i.e., where women receive their Pap smears according to recommendations), in the real world, efficacy isn't as great, but there's also a philosophical issue here: Isn't it better to prevent cervical neoplasia that can lead to cervical cancer rather than treating it when we find it, particularly when it can be done so safely? Let's just put it this way. As <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2013/12/05/the-pap-smear-is-no-panacea-katie-couric/">Tara Smith writes</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Dr. Harper believes the HPV vaccine is over-hyped, and that Pap screening is “100% accurate” so no HPV vaccine is really needed. This, frankly, is hogwash. Even with emphasis on screening, here in the U.S. we have 12,000 cases and 4,000 deaths from cervical cancer alone each year. (And in Mnookin’s post and in <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2013/12/04/four-ways-katie-couric-stacked-the-deck-against-gardasil/">Matthew Herper’s Forbes post</a>, both note that head and neck cancers can also be caused by HPV as well–but have no good screening process). </p></blockquote> <p>And:</p> <blockquote><p> Harper acts as if finding HPV via Pap smears is like rainbows and unicorns, but it too has a risk-benefit equation, and I’d so much rather have received a vaccination than to have gone through that. And, some women’s treatments for HPV infections and cervical abnormalities are even more extreme than mine was. </p></blockquote> <p>Indeed. An argument can be made that in developed countries Pap smears can produce results as good as the vaccine in terms of lowering death rates, but there are tradeoffs. Moreover, if HPV incidence is driven low enough by mass vaccination, Pap smears could be done less frequently or only targeted to high risk populations. If better HPV vaccines are developed to cover more types of HPV, this process could accelerate to the point where Pap smears are not even necessary any longer. Be that as it may, I've seen Harper make far more nuanced arguments, understanding that it's not black and white. Her argument that Gardasil's benefits are overhyped and that the cost-benefit ratio of the vaccine might not be worth making it part of the recommended vaccination schedule even had some resonance with me before. My thinking has evolved on the issue. Be that as it may, here, it's very clear, despite her waffling, that Harper thinks Gardasil is a waste of time and that women should just get Pap smears.</p> <p>Throughout the entire segment, what is most frustrating about Harper's responses is that she sidesteps the answer to one question. She is asked on at least two occasions whether she thinks the benefits of HPV vaccines outweigh the risks. Both times, she answered another question, first dodging the question of whether she thought Tarsell's blaming the HPV vaccine for her daughter's death was plausible, and then near the end she waffles about if "you're comfortable" with the risks and benefits of the HPV vaccine you should have it. She can't, however, resist making the aforementioned crack about pediatricians being trained to give vaccines rather than Pap smears, adding that the best gift you could give your daughter would be a certificate for a pap smear at age 21.</p> <p>As mentioned before, Couric also interviewed Rosemary and Lauren Mathis. Rosemary Mathis founded the antivaccine (specifically, anti-HPV vaccine) group SaneVax, and Lauren is her daughter. Her story is even less convincing than that of Emily Tarsell. It's summarized in a <a href="http://www.wxii12.com/Mom-Blames-Teen-s-Illness-On-HPV-Vaccine/-/9678472/4473664/-/gltap4z/-/index.html" rel="nofollow">news story from 2010</a>, in which it is stated that Lauren was bedridden for 85 days. </p> <blockquote><p> Doctors diagnosed her with an enlarged liver and a nonfunctioning gallbladder.</p> <p>"I was scared and for probably a year I slept beside her because I was afraid for her to go to sleep," Mathis said.</p> <p>After seeing other doctors and specialists across North Carolina for nearly a year, a doctor at Duke Medical Center confirmed that Lauren's illness was directly related to a vaccine. Mathis said the only recent vaccine given to Lauren was Gardasil. </p></blockquote> <p>The story as shown on Katie Couric's show is <a href="http://katiecouric.com/videos/is-the-hpv-vaccine-safe/" rel="nofollow">here</a>:</p> <div align="center"> <object id="flashObj" width="630" height="354" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,47,0"><param name="movie" value="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&amp;isUI=1" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#FFFFFF" /><param name="flashVars" value="videoId=2893795850001&amp;linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkatiecouric.com%2Fvideos%2Fis-the-hpv-vaccine-safe%2F&amp;playerID=1778770226001&amp;playerKey=AQ~~,AAABWfWhrnk~,FtZztaNxIqTVkSb1ju2Ka7JVAY8r79nB&amp;domain=embed&amp;dynamicStreaming=true" /><param name="base" value="http://admin.brightcove.com" /><param name="seamlesstabbing" value="false" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="swLiveConnect" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&amp;isUI=1" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashvars="videoId=2893795850001&amp;linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkatiecouric.com%2Fvideos%2Fis-the-hpv-vaccine-safe%2F&amp;playerID=1778770226001&amp;playerKey=AQ~~,AAABWfWhrnk~,FtZztaNxIqTVkSb1ju2Ka7JVAY8r79nB&amp;domain=embed&amp;dynamicStreaming=true" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="630" height="354" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" swliveconnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object></div> <p>In this, Lauren states that she felt sick after each vaccine and lost two years. Apparently Lauren developed some sort of chronic illness, leading her mother to take her from doctor to doctor, feeling as though she was being ignored. Finally, a doctor at Duke diagnosed her with "vaccine injury." What type of vaccine injury, you ask? I can't tell you because Rosemary Mathis doesn't tell. She just says "vaccine injury." She also doesn't tell us how this doctor, whom she doesn't name, came to the conclusion that Lauren had "vaccine injury." This is a key component of Rosemary Mathis' story, but I've as yet been unable to find anywhere where she revealed the identity of this doctor (or, as it is sometimes portrayed, "doctors"). In this <a href="http://sanevax.org/lauren-from-north-carolina/" rel="nofollow">post on the SaneVax website</a>, Rosemary Mathis states:</p> <blockquote><p> She went from being an Academically Gifted student to one who struggled to complete her 8th grade year of school. She was placed on a modified school plan by her principal who fully backed her because she was an excellent student who had been in the North Carolina Academically Gifted Program since 2nd grade. Her life became an endless round of hospital and doctor visits with little resolution to the severe pain that she was experiencing. She was even sent for surgery on her gall bladder at Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center where a skilled surgeon recognized the symptoms were more than gall bladder dysfunction and thankfully did not operate. We have spent the past year researching this horrible vaccine and the side effects and treating her with vitamins and medicine. My daughter is currently being treated by Duke University’s Children’s Hospital and Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center’s Brenner’s Children’s Hospital and the bills are now in the tens of thousands of dollars. Thankfully, I am a manager for Lowe’s Home Improvement Warehouse in their Corporate Office and have a good insurance policy which has helped cover the costs associated with the effects of Gardasil.</p> <p>Lauren’s dates of vaccinations were 2/4/08 (Lot #1448U); 4/16/08 (Lot #1757U); 8/18/08 ( Lot #0067X).</p> <p>With her second Gardasil vaccination, Lauren also received Varicella 165U and Menactra U2559AA. Symptoms over this past year and a half have included: enlarged liver, gall bladder attacks, severe nausea, chest pain, severe abdominal pain, severe headaches, brain freezes, stomach ulcer, sensitivity to light. </p></blockquote> <p>This all sounds like some sort of hepatitis, perhaps <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoimmune_hepatitis">autoimmune</a>. Or perhaps she had <a href="http://www2.niddk.nih.gov/NR/rdonlyres/4C43D490-2A5C-4506-A16B-43C14645E3B9/0/ldrb_chapter9.pdf">primary sclerosing cholangitis</a>. One wonders if the doctor at Duke saw autoimmune hepatitis or cholangitis and decided Lauren had had vaccine injury. Certainly my speculation is no more ridiculous than coming up with a diagnosis of "vaccine injury" just by looking through medical records. I'd love to know on what basis the doctor in question, if he even exists, diagnosed Lauren with "vaccine injury," because I am unaware of a mechanism by which vaccine injury could cause gallbladder dysfunction.</p> <p>The segment <a href="http://katiecouric.com/videos/should-your-son-or-daughter-get-the-hpv-vaccine/" rel="nofollow">concludes</a> with <a href="http://www.drmallika.com">Dr. Mallika Marshall</a>, a pediatrician at Massachusetts General Hospital and "Katie" medical contributor, who explains why she recommends the HPV vaccine for both boys and girls.</p> <div align="center"> <object id="flashObj" width="630" height="354" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,47,0"><param name="movie" value="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&amp;isUI=1" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#FFFFFF" /><param name="flashVars" value="videoId=2893748665001&amp;linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkatiecouric.com%2Fvideos%2Fshould-your-son-or-daughter-get-the-hpv-vaccine%2F&amp;playerID=1778770226001&amp;playerKey=AQ~~,AAABWfWhrnk~,FtZztaNxIqTVkSb1ju2Ka7JVAY8r79nB&amp;domain=embed&amp;dynamicStreaming=true" /><param name="base" value="http://admin.brightcove.com" /><param name="seamlesstabbing" value="false" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="swLiveConnect" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&amp;isUI=1" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashvars="videoId=2893748665001&amp;linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkatiecouric.com%2Fvideos%2Fshould-your-son-or-daughter-get-the-hpv-vaccine%2F&amp;playerID=1778770226001&amp;playerKey=AQ~~,AAABWfWhrnk~,FtZztaNxIqTVkSb1ju2Ka7JVAY8r79nB&amp;domain=embed&amp;dynamicStreaming=true" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="630" height="354" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" swliveconnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object></div> <p>Overall, Dr. Marshall does as good a job as any science-based contributor could be expected to do under the circumstances, pointing out that just because these girls received vaccines before getting sick doesn't mean it was the vaccines that made them sick and trying to inject some common sense and science into the discussion. Unfortunately, it's too little, too late. The issue had already been irrevocably and intentionally framed by two women who think that their daughters were either killed or horribly injured by HPV vaccines, another woman who barely disguises her contempt for the HPV vaccine and her belief that pap smears are better, and a script dripping with false balance and obvious sympathy for the viewpoint that HPV vaccines are dangerous. It's a horrible, horrible piece, and tacking Dr. Marshall on at the end, as valiantly as she strives to fight the waves of pseudoscience engulfing the show without being too "harsh." The producers should be ashamed, but they are clearly shameless if their <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-katie-couric-20131204,0,4371413.story#axzz2mZP7QR6O">response to criticism is any indication</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> We reached out to Couric's producers; a person close to the program defended the segment by observing that the show "regularly discusses important topics in the hope that people can make their own decisions." </p></blockquote> <p>May I then assume that Katie will soon be airing "both sides" of claims that 9/11 was an "inside job"; evolution is a "theory in crisis"; the moon landing was a hoax; and the Holocaust never happened? If not, why not? What she has done with Gardasil is the equivalent: Examining an issue that does not have two sides and then applying liberal helpings of false balance. Worse, by framing this as a "debate" or a "he said, she said" format, Couric's producers have falsely elevated complete loons like SaneVax founder Rosemary Mathis to the seeming level of real experts like Dr. Marshall. There are controversies about the HPV vaccine. Whether it is safe or not is not one of them, and giving the floor to the most committed antivaccine activists to appeal to emotion rather than science is not how to discuss them. Couric's producers and Couric herself were far more interested in "human interest" and controversy than actual medical and scientific accuracy.</p> <p>Worse, Couric promotes a viewpoint that has no evidence to support the risks she attributes to HPV vaccination. Indeed, the evidence is very much against the existence of such risks attributable to Gardasil. For example, <a href="http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5906">recent large cohort study</a> of nearly 1,000,000 girls between the ages of 10 and 17, 296,000 of whom had received at least one dose of the HPV vaccine and 160,000 of whom received all three doses failed to find any link to health problems, either long or short term. <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/us-hpv-vaccine-idUSBRE99M14D20131023">Nada</a>. Zip. Gardasil is incredibly safe. It's also effective. Earlier this year, a study by the CDC showed that the prevalence of the cancer-causing strains of HPV <a href="http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/health/study-finds-sharp-drop-in-hpv-infections-in-girls.html?_r=0">has dropped by half</a> among teenage girls in recent years, evidence of major success of the HPV vaccine. This is good news, given that the risks of HPV infection are very real. Every year about 12,000 women develop cervical cancer, and HPV is by far the most common cause. Couric's mothers and Diane Harper are simply <a href="http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarthy">wrong</a>, <a href="http://momswhovax.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-costs-of-fight-against-hpv-vaccine.html">wrong</a>, <a href="http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/health/study-finds-sharp-drop-in-hpv-infections-in-girls.html?_r=0">wrong</a>.</p> <p>It's amazing how, in one fell swoop, Couric has called into question her dedication to science-based medicine after having done yeoman work promoting it with respect to colon cancer and other cancers. When asked in the title whether Couric is antivaccine or irresponsible journalist, I didn't actually think that Couric is antivaccine. However, she is irresponsible. By giving voice to the crankiest of the antivaccine cranks with such an obvious biasing of the segment towards them, Couric has demonstrated irresponsibility on a massive scale. For shame. I don't think she's <a href="http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarthy/?iid=tsmodule">becoming the next Jenny McCarthy</a> (a tempting title for this post that briefly crossed my mind, but way too obvious and easy), but she has dropped a massive turd of antivaccine pseudoscience on national TV. Maybe she's trying to emulate Dr. Oz, except that even Dr. Oz probably wouldn't have touched this.</p> <p><strong>ADDENDUM:</strong> The ever-helpful antivaccine cranks at Age of Autism have provided <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/12/unofficial-transcript-katie-couric-on-gardasil-vaccine-injury.html" rel="nofollow">an "unofficial" transcript of the show</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:05</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/entertainmentculture" hreflang="en">Entertainment/culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cervarix" hreflang="en">Cervarix</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/christina-tarsell" hreflang="en">Christina Tarsell</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/diane-harper" hreflang="en">Diane Harper</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/emily-tarsell" hreflang="en">Emily Tarsell</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/gardasil" hreflang="en">gardasil</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/hpv" hreflang="en">HPV</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/human-papilloma-virus" hreflang="en">human papilloma virus</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/katie-couric" hreflang="en">katie couric</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/lauren-mathis" hreflang="en">Lauren Mathis</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mallika-marshall" hreflang="en">Mallika Marshall</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/rosemary-mathis" hreflang="en">Rosemary Mathis</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245365" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386201033"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr,<br /> "The Gardasil vaccination is a unique vaccination because it is composed of proteins and does not have a chemical structure"<br /> What does this mean?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245365&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OvO03d0SR2_5JyDXt-4MX7tgRa1iJ5zkYLxFxixPJWw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeff (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245365">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245366" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386201056"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://ciitn.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/pub_view_project_ind.cgi?g_num=2&amp;c_id=2007008">http://ciitn.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/pub_view_project_ind.cgi?g_num=2&amp;c_id…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245366&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="52ipVbX2ef9heavUo80ZI4gaBraQLZpcXdKarzSUEDs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeff (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245366">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245367" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386203208"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You've got to wonder why Dr. Diane Harper who is an "international expert on HPV and HPV prevention" has not read the reports from outside the United States about the data about lasting protection of HPV vaccine....since the vaccine was first licensed.</p> <p>I listed intently to what Dr. Harper said; "Gardasil doesn't last long enough to prevent future cancers" and when she fed Katie Couric that line, "It lasts only 5 years?" I am appalled.</p> <p>As sad as the death of a young woman is, from an "undetermined" cause, according to her mother...or from cardiac arrest as listed on the medical examiner's report, according to the earlier video...it does not, IMO, mean that Gardasil vaccine caused her death.</p> <p>The other testimonials provided by Lauren Mathis and her mother do not offer any proof that the numerous symptoms she experienced are associated with Gardasil vaccine.</p> <p>Katie ought to stick with lightweight topics and not be used as a tool by the likes of the NVIC and SaneVax.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245367&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aQlLak5ncly6qFWdo4EtlrrXziSZORp_Jpcz0SErA-k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245367">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245368" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386203220"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarthy/">http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarth…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245368&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jk-H7oSdYemzzLMVGlceMKsEylsC7Um7C2VE723ntrw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">I. Rony Meter (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245368">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245369" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386204566"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac:<br /></p><blockquote>Emily Tarsell did not present a single shred of evidence that Gardasil had anything to do with her death, and when Couric asked her what her daughter’s symptoms were, she demurred, refusing to answer, “Because we have a case pending, I cannot go into detail what happened each time,” referring to each dose of Gardasil. All we learn is that Emily died suddenly 18 days after receiving her third dose of Gardasil, and that the autopsy failed to find a cause of death.</blockquote> <p>Yes, but the document found in the US Court website provides a big hint. I found <a href="http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/MORAN.TARSELL033012.pdf">EMILY TARSELL, As the Executrix of the Estate of CHRISTINA TARSELL<br /> .... FINDING OF FACTS</a>. </p> <p>As someone who has a kid with a genetic heart condition that is most often diagnosed after "sudden cardiac death" (fortunately his was found on an echocardiogram after a murmur was heard), I tend to notice certain things. Like this bit in the document:<br /></p><blockquote>On November 20, 2007, Christina saw a doctor for chronic sinus congestion. The doctor detected an irregular pulse rate. Exhibit 4 at 136. An EKG was abnormal, indicating premature atrial contractions and that Christina ’s heart was beating in pairs. Id. at 142. <p>Approximately one month later, the EKG was repeated. It appears unchanged from the previous one. Id . at 135 and 141. In February 2008, Christina had a transthoracic echocardiogram. It produced normal results. Exhibit 4 at 139. </p></blockquote> <p>Then there are notes that Christina complained about being dizzy and faint. My son's cardiologist always asks him if he gets dizzy or faint, or feels like his heart flutters. </p> <p>I can only go by our experience and say with perfect 20/20 hindsight that Ms. Tarsell should have taken her daughter to a cardiologist after learning about the faintness and dizziness. </p> <p>Also, even though the echo showed no physical abnormality, that does not mean both EKGs can be ignored. There can be electrical abnormalities in the heart that cannot be seen by an echo. Sure, my kid's echo and cardiac MRI showed a very definite physical abnormality, but the condition causes cells to be disorganized for electrical pulses. That is why he has an EKG taken more often than an echo (okay, it is cheaper, but important).</p> <p>I know it is confirmation bias, but my son was diagnosed with the echocardiogram after an abnormal murmur was found the same week some just a year or so younger dropped dead from the same genetic heart condition. Since then I have taken notice of those particularly morbid news stories, and have been astounded at the variety of heart conditions that can cause "sudden death." Many of them, including my kid's condition, while the child is asleep.</p> <p>(oh, and I don't want to be a pedant... but the paragraph that starts off with "Dr. Harper believes the HPV vaccine is over-hyped, " looks like it is formatted like a blockquote, but does not seem to be quote)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245369&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l69qJTiCiyVq-EAkD09IEgbw3dtCPI4prbP9syI46Vg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245369">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245370" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386205938"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow Chris. You found an interesting piece of information. IANAL...but, IMO, that claim that Emily Tarsell has made before the Vaccine Court appears to be quite weak. </p> <p>I also convinced, that Mrs. Tarsell should have brought her child to a cardiologist, in light of the atrial arrythmia episodes and in light of the ongoing symptoms of weakness to the threshold of syncope.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245370&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="49YSdN-Hg20cToKh-JkX0I7yV5wkj8BREuwDxZrrKiQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245370">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245371" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386206236"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>What does this mean?</p></blockquote> <p>It means that somebody needed an editor. (It does seem to be dated 2004.) Gardasil contains multiple VLPs, so I guess you could say it doesn't have a <i>unique</i> chemical structure, but that's fairly silly, given that it says "quadrivalent" right on the label. "Protein" doesn't get one too far because... hellooo? Tetanus toxoid?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245371&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YbjPDC_RZ5L8sC-vIpsY_azWmrfAnW_kSJXTOO_7AgA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245371">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245372" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386207417"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>[A] doctor at Duke diagnosed her with “vaccine injury.” What type of vaccine injury, you ask? I can’t tell you because Rosemary Mathis doesn’t tell. She just says “vaccine injury.” She also doesn’t tell us how this doctor, whom she doesn’t name, came to the conclusion that Lauren had “vaccine injury.” This is a key component of Rosemary Mathis’ story, but I’ve as yet been unable to find anywhere where she revealed the identity of this doctor...</p></blockquote> <p>That's suspicious, but par for the course for an antivaccinationist.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245372&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tLQdx5y3jsAww1EhTMSW_YMRTDxuBIwczv8j3P6AUWs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245372">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245373" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386208117"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Dr. Harper believes the HPV vaccine is over-hyped, and that Pap screening is “100% accurate” so no HPV vaccine is really needed.</p></blockquote> <p>I really hate when antivaxers brought up the pap smear.<br /> It's putting on the same level a detection system ("screening"? Hello?) and a preventative system (vaccination).<br /> One truer argument would be that vaccination will not replace pap screening, as the vaccine is not covering all strains of HPV, and is not 100% perfect (coming to this, pap screening is not 100% either). Beside, HPV is not the sole cause of cervical carcinoma.</p> <p>But still. Saying "screening is enough" is like a farmer saying "I don't need fences, I have a camera in my henhouse so I will know if a fox sneaked in."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245373&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zEAm_JkfCgho-K9rF0LUOXswgRZH7UZnSOVuShJYa1o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245373">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245374" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386213840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeff: That document is very strange. It looks sort of like a high school science project gone terribly wrong. There are figures showing generic structures for amino acids, making a big deal about the word zwitterion, which just means that when you have groups that like to ionize at neutral pH, you should draw the structure in the ionized form to make that point. It has almost nothing to do with the structure of a particular protein or a part of a protein, because the ionized groups are no longer ionized when present in a protein, but tied up in covalent peptide bonds. (exceptions can be the amino acids at either end). In other words, most of the material at the top is just rehash from the protein chapter of some elementary textbook.</p> <p>The part about something having no chemical structure is also strange, because every molecule has some sort of chemical structure. The point that might have been attempted is that there are more than one substance present, and each is apparently part of the structure of the real virus. The difference is that only part of each protein is put into the vaccine, and that the protein parts are made artificially rather than purified from infectious virus. That's what the wordiness about recombinant DNA is about -- it's just the tool to make a non-infectious substitute for a part of the virus so the human can generate an antibody response.</p> <p>As for the TV host Couric, I suspect that she is over her head, has been over her head, and is (a) trying to do the right thing about colon cancer and breast cancer and (b) doing the show that the producer and writers handed her. I suspect that if you were to ask her about the molecular biology of colons or vaccines, she would be able to parrot back a few words and phrases, but would not do a very good job of discussing serious science. I am the first to admit that I am only vaguely aware of her existence, but have heard the name and have probably seen her on Letterman or some such. Being a television presenter is not as easy as it looks, and being able to sound knowledgeable (or even sane) on camera, without saying "Uh" and "Um" four times a sentence is uncommon.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245374&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JHmUpivQKWJOE1uP7N4vVmqxhUzYCIhmlyOxaR8spWY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bob G (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245374">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245375" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386213866"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can't understand the love-fest antivaxers have with pap smears.<br /> For starters, they are not 100% sensitive for picking up abnormalities (ergo they must be useless; since according to antivax folklore anything not 100% safe and effective is useless).<br /> Abnormalities mean women are subjected to further invasive procedures which are unpleasant and potentially damaging to future health and fertility (see Tara Smith again for details).<br /> A large percentage [around 30%] of women who develop cervical cancer have actually had a recent pap smear (so they are not that great at averting the consequences they are meant to prevent)<br /> Despite widely available screening, 12,000 women still get cancer each year (so many vulnerable women don't even get screened in the first place for whatever reason).</p> <p>If antivaxers applied the same twisted logic to pap smears as they did to vaccines, they would be saying they are one of the worst medical inventions on the planet. But the reason they love smears is because... loving them means they can be antivaccine, and as our dear and glorious leader often says, it's always about the vaccines, isn't it?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245375&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jxEdceSNvgxnW0gac9SFWpOY5r41E-MtIFX3BzGvsYI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245375">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245376" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386214204"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wonder if you have any speculation as to what turned Dr. Harper into a 'crank'?</p> <p>Re: pap smear vs. gardasil, when I last looked at gardasil 5 years ago, and I am certainly not a doctor or have any expertise whatsoever, it did strike me as a reasonable argument that it would be better to place gardasil dollars into making pap smears more available to women because at that time, 5 years ago, it was said the most effective treatment against cervical cancer and many other ailments was an annual pap smear. And gardasil wouldn't eliminate that requirement, so that making pap smears more readily available was a better choice in a regime of limited dollars.</p> <p>Please note: that's not saying gardasil was dangerous or anything, it was just a cost benefit analysis of gardasil which at the time was claimed to be the most expensive vaccine protecting against hpv viruses versus pap smears promoting overall women's health.</p> <p>This was at a time when the Feds were being called on to subsidize gardasil vaccinations -- perhaps a better use of that money would be a fleet of mobile pap smear labs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245376&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zkq4Z2udxh6hUCCB9l4dsOiYnihRHGD_cIPxjCZw2_w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jay (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245376">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245377" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386215288"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>We have many like Couric, to host Circus. </p> <p>Now, Senators, how shall we distribute bread?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245377&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s3oRem1qJUk6VbxdJNgG1A7Mh9Z3olp1Q08SXqHf6KA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Spectator (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245377">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245378" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386215377"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>True "balance" would see Couric interview around 1390 people whose daughters/spouses died from HPV-induced cancer for every mother who claims vaccine killed her daughter, and around 40,000 women who had no side effects from vaccine for every one that died following vaccine.</p> <p>That will be one mighty long Today episode. I doubt Orac has a DVR that could cope.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245378&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DIbD5eDT40wEFkuJ0MU_MCPo5SKJWghaeGGfQS1DPmE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245378">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245379" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386217752"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe ... They're all in the pockets of Big Cytology who don't want to see their revenue stream (screening paps) disappear when the burden of disease is lowered to a point that the recommended pap schedule either spaces out to 10 years or is limited to only those women who have high risk HPV detected on non-invasive testing. It's a conspiracy!! This injustice must be made public! How many women have died within months of their last Pap smear?!? Won't someone think of the children?????</p> <p>Sarcasm btw.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245379&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3t22I9Y-rfZNsDb6OQswJgOL6puxNAgwfLDC-M0t5Qw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dr trousers (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245379">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245380" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386223098"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I too was trying to give Dr. Harper the benefit of the doubt, but that may be the farthest she's gone with benefit/risk/cost that I've ever seen. I've had pap smears, I hate pap smears, and I'm notoriously bad about going to the gyno, so I've gotten quite a few less than I should. I am young enough to have gotten the Gardasil series (oh, nothing happened, although I'd say my arm hurt on par with the HBV series). Getting the vaccine doesn't mean I should stop getting paps, and I know that, I just really hate them. I'm the anecdotal poster child for why the HPV vax is important: lazy, semi-non-compliant older millennial.</p> <p>This is so upsetting. What if this were a vaccine for colon cancer? I feel terrible playing to that level, but if it were, would Katie have done this? Where were the suffers of cervical/H&amp;N cancers? How about some obituaries of those killed by HPV-related cancers? </p> <p>The only good thing is there has been a lot of uproar. And Katie doing this is worse than Jenny's shrill harpy voice. Not many people respect Jenny...a lot of people close to Jenny don't respect Jenny's opinion and have said so. But Katie is looked at as a semi-expert, or at least responsible.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245380&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P_qQLSFjmWoLHDnY9jrfGDwIvd1ulCEewcTsSvpv1NU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245380">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245381" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386225782"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dr. Trousers, #17-- I think they are in the pocket of "Big Pappy" (anyone remember Pappy from "The Placebo Journal"?). </p> <p>The final sentence of the time.com article I. Rony Meter cites in #5 says it all: <b><i>"The damage a former Playboy Bunny has been able to do is bad enough. But Couric’s misdeeds are all the worse given that she’s taken much more seriously than Jenny McCarthy."</i></b></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245381&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wHo0SioCJ-u7rn83eQKeiHsTrGUHh6nIqluPHLqoBvU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245381">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245382" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386229694"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry but I'm too cynical to give Couric credit for any of her cancer awareness work. It's all about ratings and PR which is the only logical consistency regarding her actions. This is precisely why I think it's a bad idea to rely upon celebrities/talking heads to convey the "right" ideas. Even when they do, it's almost always by accident.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245382&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rdvhrbbAJ0ORr5uutq7lBJXGElQIJ1tXwqXP9qn6QZc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245382">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245383" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386230607"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Jeff #1 &amp; 2,,<br /> I suggest you treat any scientific information from someone who thinks that <i>Saccharomyces cerevisiae</i> are bacteria with deep suspicion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245383&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UzPmXSGRW71-BG7xyXNiYTd-IGLRXbyQ9W3bM3W5JIM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245383">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245384" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386230928"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Maybe … They’re all in the pockets of Big Cytology who don’t want to see their revenue stream (screening paps) disappear when the burden of disease is lowered to a point that the recommended pap schedule either spaces out to 10 years or is limited to only those women who have high risk HPV detected on non-invasive testing. It’s a conspiracy!! "</p> <p>As a ranking member of Big Cytology, I think I speak for the great majority of pathologists who'd be happy to see a marked decline in the number of screening Paps. Despite the introduction of HPV testing, new screening guidelines and vaccines, I haven't seen much of a drop in the workload.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245384&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WP2HClke-6GLvvHZRr42o7g4qyqpV57x-94X-JNOc3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245384">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245385" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386231003"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Jay:</p> <blockquote><p>it did strike me as a reasonable argument that it would be better to place gardasil dollars into making pap smears more available to women because at that time, 5 years ago, it was said the most effective treatment against cervical cancer and many other ailments was an annual pap smear.</p></blockquote> <p>That was 5 years ago. We have 5 years of evidence for HPV vaccines and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of vaccinating.<br /> Here's an analogy: house fires. Think of pap smears as smoke detectors and gardasil as fire prevention measures. The former alerts you when a fire breaks out, the latter lowers the risk that a fire will break out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245385&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iC9hd0Qfs6S5pcZ4QPgyrFyoyJTl8NS7tZVE2SQqlzE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245385">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245386" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386231384"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, I have to say this, even if it doesn't add to the discussion: what a powerful post. Thank you for speaking up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245386&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XHa48mQroQqAifYRMlC1PAGn8VJkdiHZ79mNEDjdyj0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245386">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245387" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386232398"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> @Jeff #1 &amp; 2,,<br /> I suggest you treat any scientific information from someone who thinks that Saccharomyces cerevisiae are bacteria with deep suspicion. </i></p> <p>Maybe he got his information from the guy who said pertussis was a virus?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245387&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="v5KqIcZME_MkgVdtl28UeanvhKuASpjdyatdYiloGOM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245387">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245388" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386233118"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Right, so the show gives Tarsell a microphone and time without mentioning her affiliation with the Canary Party, Mathis is allowed to talk about anonymous doctors without being followed up with questioning and Dr Marshall is given<br /> the promethean task of attempting to educate the audience after all of the preceding fol-de-rol. I hope she is well paid.</p> <p>The host presumably is concerned about cancer prevention and early detection - so how would enabling fearmongering advocates who discourage usage of a safe vaccine that prevents several forms of cancer be part of her agenda?</p> <p>Here's a suggestion for a future guest ( BREAKING NEWS)</p> <p>Mike Adams reveals( to clear up rumours) that he's been poisoned by low "accumulative" levels of toxic "elements"( metals) despite living a "pristine lifestyle" with "clean organics" and super-foods.<br /> Fortunately, he is excreting these poisons through his hair which already has contributed to a "brain awakening" and weight loss.</p> <p>Correct. He who has been telling people how to eat and selling products which he consumes himself now tells us he's been poisoned. Why does this story sound vaguely familiar to me?<br /> Oh right.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245388&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TD7JXKIc2ZLGD6oTzWF-Ur6gxd_5f0k1vPxUG5-2YRM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245388">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245389" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386236159"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've been trying to think of a way to phrase this-</p> <p>about 'false balance'<br /> perhaps there might be a way to impress upon audiences that usually the anti-vaxxers/ woo-meisters represent their own personal experience and the opinion of a single person or a small group- in emotional fashion,<br /> whereas the scientist who presents data is usually speaking about consensus opinion ( of many people- experts) who review observations of thousands of subjects over decades ( research) with emotions conveniently extracted.</p> <p>Emotions might stack the deck towards recall of the material presented in that manner- we can inform audiences of that. Also the individual testimonies of anti-vaxxers are not independent of each other and "pure" but mutually influenced by highly partisan material ( websites, books).</p> <p>-btw- I hope you approve of my segue above - I like it better than " OT but...." if I do say so myself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245389&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wlfqTWy9AaqZTKNkUDP6VkMOgQV7UynpN6zq3hxN3kk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245389">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245390" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386238792"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, they are fussing and fuming at AoA, making all sorts of accusations about people who post safety studies of Gardasil vaccine and the scientific papers showing dramatic drops in HPV infections. </p> <p>I've been wondering why Diane Harper has taken this stance, since she is an "international expert on HPV and HPV prevention". How embarrassing it must be for her, that ("non-expert") science bloggers have come up with studies showing she is not just wrong, she is spectacularly wrong, about the efficacy of Gardasil and Pap smears.</p> <p>Harper comes off as a fool who will suffer the consequences of the well-deserved ridicule heaped on her by the science community.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245390&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Yl1Z7UblKq8DEEP5nsABOZ7QvN9rfZOOcEBDWdVECII"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245390">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245391" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386239468"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Why are all there all these regulations for fire-retardent materials? We have smoke detectors to alert us of fires, and firemen to put them out. Why bother trying to prevent them in the first place?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245391&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J6qhJgA-V8B6LD51mwrIAaLoNFlweiSHmLv3PWB4f0o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard Smith (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245391">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245392" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386240479"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Because there was someone who died in a car crash while driving his van home with a fire-retardant sofa in the back.<br /> These things are dangerous! No-one should run the risk of having to get them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245392&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4j_v9Nu7aW7vbbOTNGW59GgqoH0Ja9DxwN2rFLQDbD4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245392">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245393" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386240618"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Gardasil vaccine wouldn't have a chemical structure if it was made by taking some HPV, diluting it in water, diluting that solution in more water, and continuing the process until there was not any HPV left. Isn't that how they make it?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245393&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3wQALDkdJbv2XeIcP8yBf8BH04Dt9mbqSt6XaciUNps"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245393">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245394" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386243929"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Mike Adams reveals( to clear up rumours) that he’s been poisoned by low “accumulative” levels of toxic “elements”( metals) despite living a “pristine lifestyle” with “clean organics” and super-foods.<br /> Fortunately, he is excreting these poisons"</p> <p>He's been excreting poisons all over the Internet for a long time. Fortunately, sites like RI are good at detoxifying them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245394&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LQdcJXuLZgAvoaxW9fdtHlzjipVMPk-kQcrWv_ovs0k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245394">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245395" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386244091"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Dangerous Bacon:</p> <p>But now he claims that he's p!ssing them out not just writing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245395&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-Nn70PPI3-Se8YF-YvoanaPvifRp55QAsgn3wiEAAJ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245395">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245396" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386245311"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, these cranks are succeeding; people like Jay in this comments thread think that Pap smears are "treatments."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245396&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="orP1ut7FEXvmbGs0q2vF4WQoyHJGNYxh0ipz89PwWBE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AK (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245396">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245397" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386247780"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gardasil is an extremely dangerous vaccine, which has already been rejected in the court of public opinion. It includes only two cancer-causing serotypes, 16 and 18, when there are at least twelve other oncongenic strains not included in the vaccine. In clinical trials, vaccinated women got more precancerous lesions than women in the control group, just not types 16 or 18. There are many other types waiting to fill the gaps left by taking out the four serotypes in the vaccine. As Dr. Harper stated, 10-15% of girls have preexposure to HPV through vertical transmission from the mother or through horizontal, nonsexual skin contact. These girls have a greatly INCREASED risk of developing cancerous lesions, yet no effort is made to screen them out before vaccination, as it would be very expensive, and it’s so easy just to deny that whatever damage may occur was caused by the vaccine. HPV is not enough to cause cancer on its own: most sexually active people contract the virus, and over 99% of those clear it from their bodies with no treatment. In a small number it progresses to cancer when exacerbated by factors like smoking, vitamin deficiencies, or unprotected sex with several partners. Taking folic acid can cure cervical lesions when they occur. As Dr. Harper stated, rather than take all the risks of this vaccine, one can instead follow the new protocol of regular Pap tests combined with HPV DNA testing, and, if found early, these lesions have a 100% cure rate. Katie’s web site now has hundreds of comments by families whose children were severely damaged or killed by the vaccine, with hundreds more both by anti-vaxxers and vaccine defenders. (The vaccine defenders have lost, for, as much as they say that no vaccine damage can ever be proven to have been caused by a vaccine, most people do not make important decisions like this on such a basis.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245397&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ADRUPnCA3vooM7vosQI70p2eBQXjpjL-o_1XygHpEfo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cia parker (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245397">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245398" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386250392"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@AK -- 'zackly.</p> <p>When you equate pap smears with vaccines you're mixing apples and oranges...hell, not even oranges.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245398&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w3jp8iRWZzw6ndAaiwLCLiF_5TEs4QngTOQ3OoRLrfA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245398">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245399" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386251325"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And I forgot to add, Pap smears do not detect HPV induced adenocarcinomas of the cervix.<br /> Yet another reason to get the vaccine and not just rely on smears.</p> <p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20949623">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20949623</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245399&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AqJNo_6E1O4Gu9jKpW-rWGvszdTRHvZV46PshL4H1OQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245399">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245400" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386252787"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So instead of preventing illness, people are saying it's better to let the illness happen and detect it after it's happened through an extremely uncomfortable, possibly embarrassing (a STRANGER is poking around in there) and quite painful procedure that has to be repeated over and over again. </p> <p>Just so that it can be treated early.</p> <p>Instead of preventing it.</p> <p>Because treating it is better than preventing it.</p> <p>Can I just say, what the EVER-LOVING HELL.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245400&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k2sIaRvpoYUp92BnglzBSAfbRE5M2qK7ibeQLcEU6Ps"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Khani (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245400">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245401" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386254438"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Khani...you haven't lived until you've had a Navy flight surgeon do your pap.</p> <p>(He was the only doc available at the time and he was inflnitely more embarassed about it than I was).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245401&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Oc0XuiO7qtm8JpOBfg6UeJdm6DrUGlQtJ4oBFEv7Xn0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245401">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245402" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386258963"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Apparently she's going to "address the controversy" on tomorrow's episode. For some reason that fills me with dread.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245402&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z5TUg7ZUTlO11huwq7BLMl9-xjKXQwvXZgtL5FSC2PE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew S. (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245402">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245403" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386259092"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Anti-vaxxers: "Better a pound of cure than an ounce of prevention!"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245403&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VC2w-aDlasm-egt8mJupHFxq7jlAatFVk4gsv3Z_AjU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Roadstergal (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245403">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245404" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386261740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac-as the all knowing computer, can you tell me why my posts to AoA's site almost always get blocked but when people from AoA post here, they never get blocked? And why do they call us the bullies when we can't play in their yard?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245404&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HNw0rWe8tDqzlXedBc65NCEhLyj3r1HNcoKodDvkCI0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris HIckie (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245404">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245405" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386262372"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's some quantum entanglement thing, Chris.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245405&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SESj-gBYVU0AyRi_XfCzaQ53SVBuaFVqTr-4KYJ94XY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245405">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245406" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386262607"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris Hickie,</p> <p>Because they project what they are!</p> <p>Captain'O</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245406&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="swD_j2C5wEbLJVHLsPvkcYdTIipl2ZoIEEU-dBVLDdA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245406">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245407" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386264340"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh great, a cia parker invasion (don't miss her flying monkey droppings in Amazon reviews of virtually any book that is factual and rational on the subject of vaccines).</p> <p>it's part of the typical antivaxer shtick to emphasize relatively low odds of worst case scenarios (cancer and/or death) and ignore suffering, permanent disability, inconvenience and high medical costs associated with avoiding preventative medical care that includes immunization. For instance, we currently have no way of knowing which HPV infections are going to be cleared by the body without progressing to high grade dysplasia and cancer, so repeat testing, colposcopy and invasive and painful medical procedures which can result in sterility and other complications are necessary to prevent invasive cancer. But cia parker evidently thinks that's way preferable to Evil Vaccination which prevents HPV infection from taking hold in the first place.</p> <p>"Pap smears do not detect HPV induced adenocarcinomas of the cervix."</p> <p>As a pathologist, I'd amend this to "Pap tests aren't that reliable at picking up pre-invasive glandular lesions of the cervix", at least in comparison to their record in detecting squamous lesions.</p> <p> Pap tests have saved a ton of lives, but depending on them to the exclusion of a valuable means of _preventing_ HPV infection (vaccines) makes no sense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245407&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ilCWbYhrPmSj_63DH-KYnQAW5jGCY1Ozm8BseLxFZn8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245407">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245408" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386266695"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And that's another stupid trope ("Immunity only lasts 5 years!")<br /> Firstly, the studies (as Orac points out) indicate that these time limits indicate how long studies have stretched out for (and at that time interval immune responses remain at more that 90%, so are likely to be durable for many years beyond that), but the stupid idiots have failed to appreciate that even if immunity is shown to significantly wane, then you can easily get a booster at that stage.<br /> Duh!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245408&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ogWoil4EDfxgzQJUsidSItz4Siqcdju6RSKa5Z8JQTs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245408">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245409" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386271122"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>CIA Parker comes here spreading her brain droppings about Gardasil vaccine.</p> <p>Why is it so difficult for Parker to understand that the quadrivalent Gardasil vaccine is protective against 70 % of the serotypes of HPVs, implicated in cervical cancer?</p> <p>Why is it so difficult for Parker to understand that prevention of precancerous and cancerous lesions are far more beneficial for a young woman, than having to undergo colposcopy procedures that impact the ability of a young woman to carry a fetus to term...rather than multiple pregnancies that result in fetal loss?</p> <p>Parker, why do you want young woman to die from cervical cancers and why do you want young woman to be rendered unable to carry pregnancies to term?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245409&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xhotx6IjcNxPvPel-psR0oFYa_BbY9gnaib28PLsxf8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245409">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245410" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386273037"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But lilady, CIA Parker says that folic acid can cure cervical lesions when they occur! She wouldn't have said that if it wasn't true, would she? Would she? /sarcasm</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245410&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="i3ao5-r8bnv7Ae5MevUNwJ-6UlQ9MSuqGGjmVPMxNTg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Christine (the Public Servant Christine)">Christine (the… (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245410">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245411" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386273530"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Another thing to consider is that immunity for five years is nothing to sneeze at.</p> <p>Suppose for the sake of argument that immunity lasts for 5 years, no more, no less. Let's also say that that's five years out of a period of sexual activity lasting, say, 35 years. Furthermore, let's say that the vaccine is only 90% effective (just pulling these figures out of the air) and that only 90% of the sexually active population gets it.</p> <p>That's still preventing over 11% of HPV transmission. How much HPV transmission is prevented by Pap smears? Uh, NONE.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245411&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="g3BObMpvtVIVj4MXJ-3YmW2F_LZpTKQiYUHVzaMlWSA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Antaeus Feldspar (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245411">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245412" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386274265"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Chris Hickie:</p> <p>Well, I'm not an all-knowing computer** but....<br /> perhaps so that they can then say that you refuse to answer the questions they put to you?<br /> Which they do.</p> <p>At any rate, I can't understand how people without enough training to be able to evaluate medical research themselves can dismiss someone like you when it comes to children's health or like Orac when it concerns cancer- as well as for general scientific information. Yet they hang on antivaxxers'/ woo-meisters' every word. </p> <p>Now if their car wouldn't work would they go to an MBA or a nutritionist? No, they would go straight to a mechanic who specialised in the type of car they owned or in the particular problem they had. Cars are apparently valuable.</p> <p>Perhaps they feel uncomfortable having an expert in charge of health issues and would prefer someone who is as ill-educated as they themselves are. Doesn't hurt their self-esteem. </p> <p>At AoA, you are the new star whipping boy along with the newest target of choice, Dorit Reiss.They are so angry at you two that they've almost forgot lilady. And I haven't heard very much about that journalist, BD, either. </p> <p>** just a know-it-all android.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245412&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wfhs_J-Zpn8msSU9WvfeNjWxRKsH8957Z1M9RTNho6A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245412">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245413" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386274497"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Christine ( the Public Servant Christine):</p> <p>Believe it or not, I seem to recall that there is research that implicates high dosage of b-vitamins like folic acid in cancer.( @ Harriet Hall)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245413&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KvpUvArukKkd82hVT304AAqzIzAcF5ztUmIyVBAN-1Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245413">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245414" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386275488"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ms. Parker: " (The vaccine defenders have lost, for, as much as they say that no vaccine damage can ever be proven to have been caused by a vaccine, most people do not make important decisions like this on such a basis.)"</p> <p>Like the decision you made to assume your child had encephalopathy, but never ever called a doctor, much less take her to a neurologist.</p> <p>As a parent of a child who has had seizures, I have absolutely no respect for your "decisions" and opinions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245414&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E6Lsk4ef8ilqBphn-DU8b1ujB7-WgMtzFKMdD0ubpYY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245414">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245415" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386278032"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm finding myself hoping that the vigorous, informed pro-vaccine response - thank you, Orac - will give us a chance to publicize the new data on this vaccine's safety and effectiveness and help point out the incredible weakness of the stories, some of which - as pointed out above - not only have no evidence they were caused by the vaccine, but have other, more plausible causes (thank you for the information about heart conditions, Chris). Maybe this new attention to the HPV is an opportunity in disguise to dispel the false claims that have had the stage for so long and highlight its safety and effectiveness. </p> <p>Or maybe that's optimistically naive. But I was impressed by the strong, informed, quick respond from so many directions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245415&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jf3dXFrCTYtF1JwxMlEDlRNL3K8lDo0wH3ogDQtGENM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245415">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245416" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386278083"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Make that informed response from mainstream sources. The extreme anti-vaccine sites and people, of course, repeated their usual claims.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245416&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LQbw1SBLRipLDIhLCzxgAlbkzJc-9YCADxvjRCFWpjs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245416">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245417" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386280230"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dorit: "Or maybe that’s optimistically naive. But I was impressed by the strong, informed, quick respond from so many directions."</p> <p>There seems to be a bit of fallout from all sorts of mainstream news sources like the LA Times, and this beauty from Time Magazine: <a href="http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarthy/">Is Katie Couric The Next Jenny McCarthy?</a>.</p> <p>And about the heart issues, it was certainly a learning experience for us when he was diagnosed when he was fourteen years old. There is a website about that particular genetic heart condition, and it has a forum. I read the forum once, and have never been back. It was too depressing since it had too many stories of their children suffering "sudden cardiac death", sometimes in their sleep.</p> <p>But it makes so grateful we caught it in time, and that last year he had surgery for it. He is doing so much better. It has been almost two years without a 911 call to our house!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245417&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PPDWb6wNQt-t09lcLAClWkaMK6_i1Lzkov1798U0Irg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245417">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245418" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386280794"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can't imagine how scary that could be. And I wish some of the parents who lost their girls would be open to listening to you. Because blaming the vaccine is as bad for them as it is for those thru scare from it: they must feel guilty, betrayed and angry all at once. And they don't deserve that, on top of the pain of losing a child.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245418&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gVsUzK8SaqOv5cqEFGXX5-pHVVmQbDQJVTIG1RxszeQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245418">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245419" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386280819"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm glad your child is doing better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245419&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9-LzHfvSILo2YFNAYTT1BBfIp6YRd-2Vn3o0ge-1evg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245419">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245420" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386282357"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, but we got to go to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota!</p> <p>Okay, it is a very strange place and I could have lived without going there. There is a reason that "may you live in interesting times" is actually a curse. (Though the folks in Rochester, MN do their best to make sure your stay is as pleasant as it can be under very stressful conditions!... especially both of their travel agents!... who work in a small windowless office off of a twisty little passage way)</p> <p>So in all sincerity, thank you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245420&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="t9AbuS3cq8dC38W76oMJF4Fnj1cKEQu8XBwOWOrURBQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245420">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245421" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386285436"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ORAC</p> <blockquote><p>Couric’s producers and Couric herself were far more interested in “human interest” and controversy <b>ratings and advertising revenue than actual medical and scientific accuracy.</b></p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245421&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jyU33oL0K3I-IH9tZ3Fpy_Xw6VIYTRidiHrI1DMKbzQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Militant Agnostic (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245421">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245422" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386286380"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@CIA Parker:</p> <blockquote><p>Gardasil is an extremely dangerous vaccine,</p></blockquote> <p>Citation needed, and from a valid source.</p> <blockquote><p>which has already been rejected in the court of public opinion.</p></blockquote> <p>Citation needed.</p> <blockquote><p> It includes only two cancer-causing serotypes, 16 and 18</p></blockquote> <p>Which are known to be the most dangerous, and other vaccines targeting more serotypes are in development.</p> <blockquote><p>clinical trials, vaccinated women got more precancerous lesions than women in the control group, just not types 16 or 18.</p></blockquote> <p>Citation DEFINITELY needed. And nothing from Tomljenovic or Shaw.</p> <blockquote><p>As Dr. Harper stated, 10-15% of girls have preexposure to HPV through vertical transmission from the mother or through horizontal, nonsexual skin contact...yet no effort is made to screen them out before vaccination, as it would be very expensive</p></blockquote> <p>Probably the first accurate thing you've said in your screed.</p> <blockquote><p>and it’s so easy just to deny that whatever damage may occur was caused by the vaccine.</p></blockquote> <p>Citation needed for your claim that the vaccine causes damage.</p> <blockquote><p>HPV is not enough to cause cancer on its own</p></blockquote> <p>CItation DEFINITELY needed.</p> <blockquote><p>most sexually active people contract the virus, and over 99% of those clear it from their bodies with no treatment.</p></blockquote> <p>Citation needed.</p> <blockquote><p>[O]ne can instead follow the new protocol of regular Pap tests combined with HPV DNA testing, and, if found early, these lesions have a 100% cure rate</p></blockquote> <p>I've read the comments on this thread. I'm really glad that I will never need to undergo a pap smear. Secondly, how regular is regular? Finally, "if found early". In a lot of cases, the lesions are not found early.</p> <blockquote><p>Katie’s web site now has hundreds of comments by families whose who erroneously believe that their children were severely damaged or killed by the vaccine.</p></blockquote> <p>FTFY. Anecdotes are not data, Cia.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245422&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jUDupm0A3speryK9kBrB1XA9DfbEwhzSE0lA-hk8NpM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245422">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245423" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386286405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice</p> <blockquote><p>Fortunately, he (Mike Adams) is excreting these poisons through his hair which already has contributed to a “brain awakening” and weight loss.</p></blockquote> <p>If his Mike Adams' brain woke up, it would probably try to escape.</p> <p>I wonder if he manged to acquire a toxic load of heavy metals via Ayurvedic potions or some "natural" crap or whether the grifter has himself been conned one of those bogus lab tests the woosters use. The ones that guarantee a positive result every time.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245423&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NL7kdDkR-QkCi-93bL8doWDAxX8FEPuwl_vhpLQYCPc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Militant Agnostic (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245423">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245424" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386286423"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, my word.. the thread at ShotOfPrevention has become almost as depressing as the forum for my son's cardiac condition:<br /><a href="http://shotofprevention.com/2013/12/05/victims-katie-couric-neglected-to-mention-in-her-discussion-of-hpv">http://shotofprevention.com/2013/12/05/victims-katie-couric-neglected-t…</a></p> <p>Yikes! Too many women with this kind of preventable cancer. How do we stop it?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245424&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R39seLCXRH4K6JqJ9tLrzX-h9UzBXoFvDWUqPwqC9p4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245424">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245425" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386286570"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccinate?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245425&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="V6znvSVjRFLnVAWCyVbT8MoTfRQy6yx9N0SBlpS0g68"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245425">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245426" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386287932"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Um, yes, we vaccinate.</p> <p>My feeble engineer mind thinks it is better to prevent than to treat. </p> <p>Anyone with contrary evidence are welcome to post their peer reviewed scientific literature. But I will tell you from personal anecdotal evidence that having a mom die when one is only is eleven years old truly sucks. It is not something I would recommend.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245426&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vVNFSkXJCTA4m85JqaiQci_DzfRsvmmed4kO0tZ7154"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245426">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245427" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386288242"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If his [Mike Adams’] brain woke up, it would probably try to escape.</p></blockquote> <p>LOL! Love it Militant Agnostic!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245427&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tUOEWSMAKuvAKZlpBV2nt9QXpPcn2XOayPvZi-RrbME"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245427">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245428" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386288290"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>CIA: As the parent of a child whose first seizure occurred in the NICU when he was 20 hours old, which required resuscitation, I have no respect for you and your labeling of your child as "vaccine damaged". </p> <p>Scroll down this page to see where Katy Couric's representative states that Katie will be addressing the controversy that her HPV program generated, on Friday December 6th's show:</p> <p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-katie-couric-hpv-vaccine-20131204,0,4561911.story#axzz2mfeIbsKk">http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-katie-cour…</a></p> <p>"Updated at 1:08 p.m. Dec. 5: A representative of "Katie" said that Couric will address the controversy on Friday's show."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245428&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hkwc8baU0xiBABDI1jsurf0f0_5lZVT9EvFKOQfWxBY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245428">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245429" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386288710"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>...oh, crud, I can't do family finances since my eyes are clouded with tears.</p> <p>Do not ever think the pain from losing one's mother fades after several decades. It does not. I am turning off my financial computer (most of the time I post from the kitchen computer), and going to go read a library book. Though it depends on how much I can see through the tears.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245429&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W89KKuUrUGFdclJ31MsumtIlACobsmfrL6crsSK2aAo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245429">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245430" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386293989"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just for splitting hairs, regardless of the actual degree of true of the statement itself:</p> <blockquote><p>most sexually active people contract the virus, and over 99% of those clear it from their bodies with no treatment.</p></blockquote> <p>Since a lot of people are sexually active (all the ones who had children, for a start), 1% of this number is still an awful lot of suffering people.<br /> But as long as it's no-one you like, I guess it's OK.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245430&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ItuITvdAsyM36oPfFLhcNMxG8-5y0NFjQBM9mA9LTTs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 05 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245430">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245431" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386311866"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>They also think that 1/500 to 1/1000 chance of dying or being left permanently vegetative from measles is just hunky dory, too. They think this of course because they are (all on their own, of course, because everyone else is just not as smart as brilliant as they are) battling something that's 1 in 150 or was it 1 in 110 or 1 in 88 or 1 in 30 or whatever damn number they feel like making up now--so who cares about all those other things that might happen to people.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245431&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="43NSE5uXSr6uIg5xtbqB5sTpXZOXNIUgcIXEDMJn4wM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245431">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245432" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386312174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Flying monkey alert! </p> <p>Over at Huffington Post, there's an article on the front page about how the CDC is reporting a sharp upward spike of measles cases this year -- something like 170 rather than a typical 60 or so -- and the comments section is predictably starting to light up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245432&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ajdRrQRVucYpLg_vYihfLYzORQH1-iTm9YkDmrinla4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245432">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245433" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386313473"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Back in September, this CNN article (<a href="http://us.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/index.html">http://us.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/index.html</a>) noted the CDC was predicting this would be the worst year for measles in the US in 17 years. Of course, the dimwitted Sears family of "doctors", doesn't think this is any big deal: <a href="http://www.askdrsears.com/news/sears-family-blog/measles-outbreaks-reason-panic">http://www.askdrsears.com/news/sears-family-blog/measles-outbreaks-reas…</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245433&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sd3hp1cEWLzNzXbvjEJlBiE4HmmFySQLg1T4cbdCxTA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245433">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245434" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386314685"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When I saw that blog post last month I almost had a stroke. Dr. Bob left out the part where there have only been 2 major outbreaks this year because the rest of us are vaccinated, so the parasites should be grateful.</p> <p>OT, but is anything ever really OT here: I just discovered Andy is on Twitter. Did we know that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245434&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="le4ygoxI3BGKV_ucG1QdkgiFoYiW6WgRYpDROqX_ifY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245434">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245435" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386315726"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chris of course he doesn't mind measles - because in his little world it's only 'other people's children' that get it (never mind the obvious). </p> <p>He is so disconnected from reality it's truly astonishing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245435&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2l5_dLKt7h5Rv62JeFgQeC3IxfmFIrtzjyXXsm2iPR4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Darwy (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245435">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245436" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386318522"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Not too worried by the ranting of the antivaxers just now.</p> <p>In ten years the whole of America will be laughing at them and their ridiculous notions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245436&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E-mR1cjBRyhSDqRZIFFct69AeJkPiv1KAhpL6q8c97Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245436">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245437" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386319091"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>AoA has put up a transcript of Couric's show. The resident doctor ( identified as 'Malika') gets to speak at the end.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245437&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WQk5hDKP2F9JQIIvFERAGiAz69husS5-MsNE8pjk2Zw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245437">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245438" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386319880"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I put a post up this morning about Couric's show. Also, there have been some reports that she will revisit the topic today in her Follow Up Friday segment. We'll see if she acts like a responsible journalist or tries to shift responsibility away from herself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245438&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y1TKhZw5-Fjs8bUF59VHXFUtcGMgsGJ1cQmOJWObZCc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245438">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245439" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386322617"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a>At the Daily Kos</a></p> <blockquote><p> What we have here is not a story about Katie Couric and her producers going for a sensationalistic story and misfiring. What we have here is another instance of the profession's ongoing scientific illiteracy, an illiteracy that leads to a great many quacks and cranks and great mountains of professional and well-paid bullshit artists being propped up as public experts whose testimony must be given exactly as much weight as concrete, measurable evidence to the contrary. It is excruciatingly damaging. It can kill people. </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245439&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6VVDNzKRiGre7lHDILxv6Wc85pwfXqCze1_EbdHLGlY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LIz Ditz (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245439">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245440" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386322656"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Unfortunately, I forgot to set the DVR to record her show today; so I won't be able to comment on her "reaction to the controversy" unless it's posted online.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245440&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DG8FHKWyxil6R4klJqdDO5b0OiOmA8QL6N-67ORLeGg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245440">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245441" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386324751"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just wondering: How much does a pap smear cost, and how much does a shot of the HPV vaccination cost? If the former costs more than the latter, or repeated tests add up to more over the same period covered by the vaccine, could somene who is advocating against vaccination in favour of the tests (not that I could name anyone specifically, of course!) be thought of as working for Big Pap?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245441&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kAZBu_B_pXqQxwSFmegUDyMzD-cyof6XIY3MC-BKFiE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard Smith (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245441">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245442" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386324957"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Orac</p> <p>It looks like her Follow Up Friday segments are generally posted online.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245442&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y8wcO0RSpdlZ-Plr07HXVKZKuokbxQ-7tQy3Ls2n8Cg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245442">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245443" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386325076"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm recording today's Katie Couric show today ABC-TV at 3 PM EDT and will provide the verbatim statement she makes...as if she could ever regain the respect that she has lost.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245443&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="89Sh9zpxstRe1oNc6EVf22sU9Gyuu7Phzk3azNN5_3Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245443">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245444" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386325536"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Richard Smith</p> <p>It's not just the one pap smear. It's the one positive or questionable that requires follow-up. That follow-up will cost money and it will also cost an unquantifiable amount of worry and concern. Plenty of women in my family and friends have had abnormal smears that need follow-up. The amount of stress this caused them, including missing time from work, makes the calculation of cost-benefit between HPV vaccine and traditional paps all sorts of confounded.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245444&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r5Bv41jGliRNGnks55SYT_PmVope-jBMiEhTm7GXPbI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245444">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245445" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386326405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So... the ill-informed, panic-causing segment gets broadcast on national telly, but the follow-up only goes online?</p> <p>This reminds me of gossip rags publishing retractions to front-page stories on page 47, beneath the ads for surgical trusses. *sigh*</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245445&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_nKbLthRBhcqmgmQ_NppB1v8lXyKOKIz6q3qT_MqfdI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johanna (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245445">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245446" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386326711"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> as if she could ever regain the respect that she has lost </i></p> <p>More than one article has distinctly compared her to Jenny and exclaimed she's worse. Is it even possible to come back from that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245446&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n-X6e-ylRtoUCC8Gbrtgvpo7eIzEPQ4B8oMcoXm2OJs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245446">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245447" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386327825"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johanna</p> <p>No, I think the follow-up is a segment of her Friday shows. The show web site has clips of various past Follow Up Friday segments. I don't think it will be the full episode, but it will be broadcast, if the reports are accurate and she or "a representative of the show" do respond.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245447&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-HTAE3D2EgeaDXeeEmEUnty2GLjJ8dUDvAVrZNQ6DUY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245447">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245448" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386327966"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Todd W. </p> <p>Aah, thank you for the clarification.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245448&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JaZxDHT6ubBwEP04jyIERKXUFy3xFd-zQr2k32Vgg44"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johanna (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245448">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245449" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386331948"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In clinical trials, vaccinated women got more precancerous lesions than women in the control group, just not types 16 or 18. </p></blockquote> <p>I believe Cia Parker, is referring to a single subgroup of women who already had HPV infections, in a single clinical trial, and <a href="http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf">according to the FDA (PDF)</a>, "there is some evidence that this represented an unbalanced subgroup where Gardasil™ recipients at baseline had more risk factors for development of CIN 2/3 or worse".. Other clinical trials have not confirmed this, and <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1470204511702868">a recent clinical trial</a> found that HPV vaccines are 100% effective against CIN3+ (that's the immediate precursor to invasive cervical cancer) associated with HPV-16/18 in women without previous infection, and 45·7% effective if you include women with a previous infection (a good argument for giving the vaccine before sexual activity starts). Adverse reactions in that study were almost identical in both treatment and control groups.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245449&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fon4ja9Sarnwog1VA4LKZS-JpX17Id9dqXonb1ly_iU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245449">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245450" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386334237"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Anyone have a link to the Huffpo article?<br /> I can't seem to find it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245450&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y8mQQpiQjigHabHJzANey2bw4CaRu1q7M5_H-LzKv4o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245450">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245451" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386336583"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>dingo 199 the measles outbreaks article is on the front page of the "Healthy Living" section at the Ho-Po, here:</p> <p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/measles-cases-us-triple-annual-average_n_4392420.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/measles-cases-us-triple-annual…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245451&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8GGvGbKiQxcwqfabs2dj8x8ARwm83h36jtnveOWeNkc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245451">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245452" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386337292"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That comment section is surprisingly sane....wow.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245452&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a9UCzVbLx5KJQSvTdIRMw-q1D7DYYDRjSMiECYMluKo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245452">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245453" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386342812"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wasted an entire hour viewing "Katie" on TV. There was not attempt to explain, no apology, no nonpology...and no backing down.</p> <p>As the credits began to roll at the end of the program there was a notice put up directing the viewer to this discussion:</p> <p><a href="http://katiecouric.com/features/hpv-conversation-continued/">http://katiecouric.com/features/hpv-conversation-continued/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245453&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KR5ulYY8TjlvtHhMKexqB8LiNbkmdNNezVeSDPZ7BzI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245453">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245454" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386342945"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@lilady</p> <p>Worse than expected. I saw that blurb earlier and thought it was pretty lame, but that there'd still be something on the show. I doubt Couric actually wrote any of that blurb; probably written by a producer or other staff.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245454&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EKC86ieYmX_f0uHw1zoKKBn9AI7gG5AywEAlm56teWE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245454">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245455" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386344675"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ta lilady!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245455&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ao49WJryvxKV_kc6gwFTDyp5Xw5T3DGEKv85rTNUAn0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245455">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245456" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386346326"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>More than one article has distinctly compared her to Jenny and exclaimed she’s worse. Is it even possible to come back from that?</p></blockquote> <p>Barbara Walters is still retiring, after all.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245456&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nC9uJeACtAuBVZns45QzR6LXJhITeKHmEVqDHVYJGGg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245456">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245457" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386351441"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> That comment section is surprisingly sane….wow. </i></p> <p>Give it time.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245457&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yIrM4IuAS_RFzD8tyNeDRNUjmfzc3TLtILUaBlH2A2I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245457">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245458" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386351694"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Also, Katie's "response..." despicable. You know who avidly reads things like that? People like us and anti-vaxxers. The silent majority who is rational but not necessarily scientifically literate really doesn't, or doesn't think it matters much until they are required to make the decision, and will remember the emotionally charged message. Damage done.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245458&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jQvzoGl1akfX1U3jHpS8CORp5iC-OkjwtXDcBtdNnVU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245458">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245459" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386352770"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Just wondering: How much does a pap smear cost, and how much does a shot of the HPV vaccination cost? If the former costs more than the latter, or repeated tests add up to more over the same period covered by the vaccine, could somene who is advocating against vaccination in favour of the tests (not that I could name anyone specifically, of course!) be thought of as working for Big Pap?</p></blockquote> <p>@ Richard Smith, you're comparing apples to oranges as the former is a detection method whereas the latter is a (theoretical) preventative. How about comparing the costs of a colposcopy plus LEEP and/or chemotherapy, costs of loss of child-bearing capability or need of c-section for birth to the cost of the vaccine series. Let's not forget about throat/penile/anal cancers and genital warts caused by HPV strains contained within the vaccine. Now you are closer to the mark.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245459&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xl5jfgIuhweZGxRn4mbaZN0rj4kGm5403WVivRhKaEw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 06 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245459">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245460" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386402749"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, Dan Olmstead has his knickers in a bunch about "vaccine injury denialists" who make use of the "Vioxx defense" of Gardisil at Couric's website- esp our own lilady and Dorit Reiss who are both described in less than gracious fashion.</p> <p>I find the usage of the term 'denialism' rather ironically funny.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245460&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yEjLHUm8LfkgO6uWM2ooxXSaQ7cXc1qoJCEwxFpiKS4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245460">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245461" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386404916"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice Walter:</p> <p>Dan's remarks are too good to not reproduce here...</p> <p>"Now another Merck vaccine, Gardasil, is getting the Vioxx defense. Shrieking trolls like the aptly named "lilady" (I pronounce it lie-lady) and law professors who've never passed the bar exam clutter up Katie Couric's website to dispute every parental account of damage from the vaccine, including the deaths of children."</p> <p>Memo to Olmsted: I'll give you a $1,000 for every comment of mine that you locate on "Katie Couric's website".</p> <p>Tsk, tsk Dan. Any junior editor knows he should check at least visit "Katie Couric's website" to verify what your source(s) told you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245461&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pz9Y2SvFhYL4XZWMld4CoGZ9uxQaiFFhJWLA0YeHfpM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245461">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245462" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386408001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What is "the Vioxx defense"? I always like to point out that even a high dose of Vioxx, a highly effective drug, had considerably fewer cardiovascular adverse events associated with it (<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15809459">73% increase in risk of acute MI</a> n = 113,927) than calcium supplements taken alone (<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22626900">139% increase in risk of acute MI</a> n = 23,980).</p> <p>Gardasil, in contrast, has no increase in serious adverse events associated with it at all. See for example (no link to avoid moderation) PMID: 23027469 which studied 189,629 females who received at least 1 dose of Gardasil and compared possible reactions on the same day, within 14 days and within 60 days of vaccination to a time period distant from the date of vaccination. This study design eliminates the complaints from antivaxxers when other vaccines or just adjuvants are used as controls, that these also cause reactions. </p> <p>The only statistically significant increases seen in this study were fainting the same day as the vaccine, and skin infections within 14 days.</p> <p>BTW, perhaps the 'lilady defense' will now be used to mean you have undeniable evidence that you were not at the scene of the 'crime', and the person who claims you were there is lying ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245462&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Qjy4oIBp840cadhI7TIwIXcXGVz7eE_wfjUhqwff3Kc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245462">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245463" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386409311"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Krebiozen: I have no idea what the "Vioxx defense" is. In fact, I don't recall ever mentioning "Vioxx" in any of my comments, anywhere. </p> <p>Where's Dan? Too busy e-mailing the person(s) who fed him those lies?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245463&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CXp031s0k2cclzZ0W7ItdxJiB8X6AkSZuawxsr5e8LE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245463">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245464" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386410561"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The only statistically significant increases seen in this study were fainting the same day as the vaccine, and skin infections within 14 days.</p></blockquote> <p> Since benign neurogenic syncope (fainting) peaks in adolescence and is more common among women than men, you'd get the same results if you examined blood draws or laceration repair instead of vaccination in Gardasil's target population. [J Am Coll Cardiol. 1997 Apr;29(5):1039-45.]</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245464&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sFRS0MhhAP_0oLF0ZXcccJi1je8BuavmyKTtdLjlQsk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245464">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245465" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386446279"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It must be so, so sad to live in Dan Olmsted's tiny, little world. His rant is all personal, no substance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245465&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uTdXy2PwUcxZIqdLrU_i5vJTo__7-yI1lIpMssL8src"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245465">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245466" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386447841"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm getting lonely at this blog where CIA Parker and her sockies/cronies have been posting around-the-clock:</p> <p><a href="http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarthy/#comments">http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/04/is-katie-couric-the-next-jenny-mccarth…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245466&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sDIUGCOBNCfKz0wQWSU8x2kmNjbEW861ewrjmZBjxng"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245466">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245467" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386448466"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>The only statistically significant increases seen in this study were fainting the same day as the vaccine</i></p> <p>I seem to remember they were dropping like flies during my induction physical. The sight of a needle does something to teenage boys.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245467&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s-KwOsn_EeUDudg06D0_m2QdTDbJoP4lLiLft1O886s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245467">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245468" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386452130"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The only statistically significant increases seen in this study were fainting the same day as the vaccine....</p></blockquote> <p>Which is why all VAERS entries that can remotely be connected to syncope <i>or something similar</i> are immediately validated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245468&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qDTl05eXZ51Te-DpT3qrkcYtuMu1sPPFl-oy1u5IX1s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245468">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245469" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386453512"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ lilady</p> <p>I've got your back :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245469&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oZ4yyeqDAM9RNi3QunySzy73Pnn_XDiIGJ1gLfUjI2U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sarah A (not verified)</span> on 07 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245469">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245470" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386490890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This post by Dr. Gunter - describing Dr. Harper's work on a study that shows at least one HPV vaccine lasts longer than five years - may be of interest. <a href="http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/the-real-hpv-controversy-from-katie-courics-show-her-expert/">http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/the-real-hpv-controversy-fr…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245470&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ESCGTx06TekzXET0RNJqgS0WEehtJS4SfY22iI61-g0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245470">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245471" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386498099"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks to you all who had my back. </p> <p>Dorit, I've just posted a comment on Dr. Gunter's blog and I've "bookmarked" her excellent post, for future reference.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245471&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="77IYrdmqgBMpvoMuEtArrYT0touGHF2nc_CSmgxHQAU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245471">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245472" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386498253"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>lilady - perhaps Dan Olmstead was only thinking of people LIKE you, not you specifically...</p> <p>"We appreciate people like you - not you, but people like you."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245472&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ttzQ92u0IB7S_g5K_KChyjk-DGs3Tv1Wv1DS8QRAjRY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245472">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245473" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386498608"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jake criticises critics of Couric's show and Harper ( like Matt Herper @ Forbes) - see AutismInvestigated.com- in the manner in which he is habituated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245473&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IWcqcLjF3LOM8wz-vN4Ei5Bym3hSZAVimPTfGE9rJuU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245473">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245474" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386500336"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One of the posters on AoA stated that I may be "Autism Diva"...which to me is compliment.</p> <p>That offer still stands for Olmsted, or anyone, who locates any posts by me on 'Katie Couric's website" ($1,000 a pop, per comment of mine).</p> <p>Denise, I've commented on Matthew Herpe's and Emily Willingham's Forbes blogs about Katie Couric's show.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245474&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5qm7zIt1LLh4eHukuzFiy1byhMwRHkd5YRF8C0t-2nM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245474">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245475" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386513238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>perhaps Dan Olmstead was only thinking of people LIKE you, not you specifically…</p></blockquote> <p>I haven't noticed this level of precision in word usage, which even Fowler didn't observe, in his prose efforts so far. (The <i>Washington Post</i> ought to, since Bill Walsh recommends it.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245475&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QldEppapP-9NSdRAGzwQ24nAXOyNP4OG08D5TUPFzH8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245475">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245476" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386527872"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lilady - over on the Time thread, you have misread Sarah's post. Like she said here - she's got your back.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245476&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BBAyXXX7tulqYRLfTuKYN6sabLhUh7uHEXUPw4gIKwo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245476">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245477" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386531308"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>dingo199: I know I misread Sarah's post...I already apologized on the Time blog. </p> <p>BTW, CIA "mentioned" Olmsted's post and I posted my same offer to CIA, John Stone and any of the other posters; $1,000 apiece for each of the comments I made "on Katy Couric's websites".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245477&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Iuv1Rf1WQe3ukzlbbl42KQzXrejDTwmt8RZ4w83zQsE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245477">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245478" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386532265"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's another blog where CIA and other anti-vaccine trolls are spreading their brain droppings. I posted two comments yesterday with links and the comments went into moderation...so do not link to any studies:</p> <p><a href="http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/steps-authentic-happiness-positive-psychology/2013/dec/5/vaccine-disinformation-katie-couric-hpv-and-jenny-/">http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/steps-authentic-hap…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245478&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eMbB1Rmb0tqLEZ4k7d6Mugdh-bMUdOVSe0yhnSnMcbQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 08 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245478">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245479" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386619844"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I have been away from your crank site for awhile now. I must say... I have been absolutely thrilled with the recognition that this latest HPV vaccine nightmare has created... While saddened / devastated by all the deaths and injuries that this vaccine has caused. Finally, we are seeing parents who are speaking up and are being taken seriously about their children's injuries. It is so much more difficult to ignore a teenager who dies or is injured by vaccines... because people knew that child previously as a healthy child, active child, etc... When a baby is injured / damaged / dies from a vaccine too easy to chalk it up to an unhealthy child or genetic problems, etc. Joyous times we are in! People are waking up. Too bad for you nutjobs!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245479&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6QjioQea0iTSqKtKmmfimEMdtYSkq__MfOw0R1gHH6M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245479">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245480" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386626906"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The reception by public and the media for Couric's dismal attempt at science reporting has been resoundingly negative.</p> <p>By what feat of mental gymnastics do you see this as a win?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245480&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wQv3c4D7gl9bgDlgvo8GtmoR_65-iIugz-x84xfBhq4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245480">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245481" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386636438"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Joyous times we are in! People are waking up.</p></blockquote> <p>Indeed they are. They are waking up to the fact that vaccine preventable diseases are killers and that the vaccine schedule wasn't put together by some bored doctor throwing darts at pieces of paper on a wall. They are now aware that the antivaccination groups are fools and liars and that getting vaccinated is an order of magnitude safer than getting the diseases they prevent.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245481&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1z4_2rTmxIch8upCT1DJXX0jk08OGCle9fTkY59pbj8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245481">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245482" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386638607"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Joyous Times...Christmas came early for pro-vaccine/pro-science people. </p> <p>Couric's show was a public relations disaster for her. We have had the opportunity to present studies about the safety of HPV vaccines and the dramatically fewer cases of HPV infections for the young women who received HPV vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245482&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IN5NUY3k7JpRcOQxxgB4fxp_sUwUtriVmhBuvdm2IOw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245482">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245483" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386645174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Cognitive dissonance - never lacking in the antivax mindset.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245483&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HBOOIKUZN9qT-F51eKKYIVtEos-0Va7hj3iUNA-ZGN4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245483">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245484" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386654069"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> The reception by public </i></p> <p>That has been the most uplifting. The public at large, not just doctors, reporters, etc, did at huge "WHAT IS SHE DOING?!?" when that show aired. And this is something many women still have experience with, cone biopsies and LEEP procedures and laser ablations. It warms my heart when antivax sentiment goes center stage and the backlash is immediate. We've seen a lot of it this year.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245484&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YQPpcFEZIWMph2UagjgblkKJNpdYhhvpwYUemt9ezDQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245484">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245485" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386659112"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Drug-dealers, </p> <p>You know me -- always telling it as it is!</p> <p> I would have to agree with Joyous Times that the Katie Couric's HPV show was a victory for the anti-vaxxers. Yes, there were ensuing blogs and articles slamming the show, but they came across merely as vested interest desperately trying to combat 'the cat getting out of the bag'. </p> <p>Reading the comments in reaction to these blogs and articles, we get the true picture. We have a few obvious shills posting lost of comments defending the HPV vaccine and criticizing the show. While on the other side, we have an overwhelming mass of parents sharing their sincere beliefs of how HPV damaged and killed their children, and expressing their utmost gratitude to Katie for airing the show. I imagine also that the show's ratings would indicate a boonfest, suggesting that the public is appreciative of the message that departs from the usual 'vaccine are safe and effective so shut-up' meme. </p> <p>Guys, I think it's back to the drawing board for you. (Hee hee hee).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245485&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0ZE3sk__TKdvJvsKVlY3jYqPXyX-M8dA-rUg-_FQhEA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greg (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245485">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245486" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386659859"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I know that you guys tend to hang out together in these crank sites and so your opinion is skewed that way but... in the real world this is a huge smackdown for you. Real people whose children have been injured by this vaccine, a researcher who was instrumental in the vaccine being put out there discussing it's problems ... all these people on national tv discussing it. It's amazing and wonderful. Joyous times, indeed! You are crazy to say that the public at large (with doctors and reporters, etc) said "What is she doing"? Absolutely nutso comment. Only the crank sites are saying that... Real people are listening and saying "yes, finally" or "I wonder if there is some truth to all this". Either way, you lose! The amount of parents / children who came forward on the Katie blogs to discuss their own or their children's injuries from this vaccine was amazing to me. So many people know and the circle will only get larger... Wonderful to see. Now a few other points for you all:</p> <p>1) You look like idiots when you mock and trivialize parents who have concerns about this vaccine... especially when their children have been injured by it. </p> <p>2) You look like idiots when you continuously call some of these parents "anti-vaccine nuts". Are you for real? Ha Ha... It is quite obvious that the parents whose children were injured by this vaccine did not start out as "anti-vaccine"... Can we agree? Anyone with even the slightest question about vaccines would not have had their child vaccinated with this new and unproven vaccine... These parents were not "anti-vaccine" UNTIL their children were injured. Duh! </p> <p>3) Does Kathy from Australia hang out on this crank site? OMG so funny that she posted a link to a study by a fugitive of the law (embezzlement)... Then criticized others for not following the Science. Wow. Just Wow!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245486&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w3k1NNaymz0NrutqOpYOuJBSeU2H1SrgotkDrPg36hk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245486">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245487" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386660480"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Joyous - any more rants for anti-vaccine bingo? Because you're hitting all of the "right" notes to show just how detached from reality you are....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245487&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IixOi1xw8LesgdTQEMAvlB4M8YH5z0r3BRueSDs-7Sc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245487">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245488" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386661742"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The comment "Ha Ha" is good for extra points.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245488&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jq_ZwrXsDPN40lL7IYtOZYZffqMiql2RAQHLSe3yJJc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245488">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245489" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386662051"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You are crazy to say that the public at large (with doctors and reporters, etc) said “What is she doing”? </p></blockquote> <p>I just googled "katie couric criticism" and got a bunch of hits from sources condemning Couric. The public at large IS slamming her.<br /> Secondly, Tarsell's story raises a lot of questions.</p> <blockquote><p>this new and unproven vaccine</p></blockquote> <p>Gardasil has been thoroughly tested. It is most assuredly not "unproven".</p> <blockquote><p>OMG so funny that she posted a link to a study by a fugitive of the law (embezzlement)… </p></blockquote> <p>1) Poul Thorsen is not even the First Author on that study.<br /> 2) The charges appear to be going nowhere. It doesn't look like Thorsen committed fraud.<br /> All you have said is unsupported ranting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245489&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7LEK8VaHElqg26GMoIejmkf5Md4JkZRtZF_FJz0JB2E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245489">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245490" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386662228"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lawrence</p> <p>Another cover all!</p> <p>And, just for fun, <i> Only the crank sites are saying that… </i> Yes, Time, the New York Times, just about every major newspaper, Nature, JAMA, CDC, NEJM, APIC, SHEA, IDSA, AAP, ACIP, NYDOH, recently NYS lawmakers....99.99% of healthcare, that church who did a heel-face-turn and opened up vaccine clinic after they were hit with an outbreak and became a laughing stock...and that's just in the US! Of course, the biggest, most wide-reaching is The WHO...cranks we all be! </p> <p>No, we don't agree. While they may not have been actively anti-vaccine, usually those who fall prey to conspiracy are pre-disposed to conspiracy and feeling they are being persecuted.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245490&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4hd8FxMKGtpNKVyvmCRoe-j3zq6COPwNB3OW_lhpGoI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245490">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245491" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386662840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Joyous Times</p> <blockquote><p>a researcher who was instrumental in the vaccine being put out there discussing it’s problems</p></blockquote> <p>You mean the researcher <i>whose own papers</i> state that immunity lasts <i>at least</i> five years. Not <i>only</i> five years like she said on Katie's show, <i>at least</i> five years, and in the face of other research showing that Gardasil protects for at least 6 years and Cervarix at least 9 years. And those limits are only there because the studies ended and did not continue following subjects until the vaccine would, if ever, wear off.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245491&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7CUJEZfqCt-ji3Pe_-zr8hUrBfNaTv_17clJHGLTbNI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245491">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245492" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386662947"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is currently an inordinate amount of straw-clutching that permeates the antivax sphere. Perhaps this is a sign of their desperation in what for them are very lean times. </p> <p>Whenever there is anything published in any media outlet that even mentions the idea of a "controversy" or hints at a vaccine problem draws the antivaxers like blowflies to a dead carcass, and they mistakenly think that this aberration represents the "real world".</p> <p>Yet IRL, the vast majority of people just get on with their usual practise of getting their kids vaccinated, trusting their doctors, and following the sensible advice they are given. Hardly any of these people stoop to flood websites with comments about how wonderful vaccines are. It has been gratifying how much adverse comment people likeKatie Couric has attracted. But it is sometimes possible that the perception of someone dipping into one of these websites is that there are many people moaning about harmful effects of vaccines. However, the majority of them are the "flying monkey antivax brigade", sent scurrying to the sites by sites such as Age of Autism, Nachural Noos, Mercola et al, and it isn't hard to see multiple trolling by numerous antivax sockpuppets. That people like "Joyous Times" (probably a sock for a long time antivax troll well known to us under their other nyms) think this delusional view of the situation to be representative of the situation in real life for 99%+ of Americans would be very amusing, were it not so deeply tragic.</p> <p>PS. I don't know who Kathy is, but I assume she referred to the Danish scientific papers co-authored by Dr Thorsen. Good on her.<br /> I have these points to make:<br /> 1. Thorsen was only one of numerous authors of several Danish MMR studies, all of which are scientifically valid and have withstood intense scrutiny.<br /> 2. His alleged embezzelment of funds allegedly occurred sometime after he completed those studies, it remains unproven, and it is quite unconnected with the substance of the research.<br /> 3. His alleged activity was one of alleged financial irregularity, not of <b>scientific</b> fraud, so has no bearing on the conclusions of those studies.<br /> 4. Antivaxers like to claim with one breath that Thorsen's papers are invalid, yet with the next breath that Wakefield's autism/MMR studies are scientifically sound, despite the facts that Wakefield's studies were withdrawn by the journal that published them, he was struck off the medical register for gross professional misconduct and neglect of the interests of patients in his studies, and that his work has been declared medically and scientifically fraudulent. He was paid $750,000 in order to fabricate a case against MMR by litigation lawyers, and failed to even mention this conflict of interest to his co-researchers, never mind declaring it when he submitted his papers. And there were also financial irregularities too - at least £25,000 went missing from a research grant and he claimed he didn't know where it went. So if antivaxers are happy with this sort of behavior from researchers, I wonder why Thorsen's alleged offense (which pales to nothing in comparison with those of the fraudster Wakefield) seems to rile them so much. Now if you want to have a laugh, Joyous Times, then have a look at Wakefield. He is funny.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245492&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l8FPd4dr-iwvsypYNzqE_oqw6_Dg6P9Xzz3FKCXgzNM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245492">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245493" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386663210"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I just googled “katie couric criticism” and got a bunch of hits from sources condemning Couric. The public at large IS slamming her."</p> <p>Omg. I just googled Katie Couric HPV controversy and got a bunch of hits of sources praising Couric. The public at large knows it's time for discussion. </p> <p>"Gardasil has been thoroughly tested. It is most assuredly not “unproven”.</p> <p>Disagree. The fact that so many children are being injured by the vaccine... tells me that more research is needed. </p> <p>"1) Poul Thorsen is not even the First Author on that study.<br /> 2) The charges appear to be going nowhere. It doesn’t look like Thorsen committed fraud.<br /> All you have said is unsupported ranting."</p> <p>He embezzled money. He was an author on that study. Enough said. The charges appear to be going nowhere? Well, that's interesting. I wonder why? ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245493&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VKVj9_hH1ONQPuUg1NcD81Zn9a6zqXV3FRmeyQWVvSU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245493">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245494" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386663548"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"You mean the researcher whose own papers state that immunity lasts at least five years. Not only five years like she said on Katie’s show, at least five years, and in the face of other research showing that Gardasil protects for at least 6 years and Cervarix at least 9 years. And those limits are only there because the studies ended and did not continue following subjects until the vaccine would, if ever, wear off."</p> <p>Oh this is wonderful... so we start vaccinating young girls at 11 (or so...), for a vaccine that protects for at least 6 years... Which will bring the child to age 17... But we really have no idea after that (and we certainly can't make predictions based upon the unknown) ... And that's *your* argument. omg. Let's go with that... This vaccine may protect you forever!!! Or, it may kill you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245494&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WrLOn3ahKxZ7dHBnF7wS2YoVX-TOHs-BYZ49PGMMKw4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245494">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245495" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386663732"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Disagree. The fact that so many children are being injured by the vaccine… tells me that more research is needed</p></blockquote> <p>The fact that there are reports in VAERS does not mean that the vaccine caused the adverse events. The fact that Emily Tarsell and the Mathises believe Gardasil caused problems doesn't mean it did.</p> <blockquote><p>He embezzled money.</p></blockquote> <p>Actually, it looks as if he didn't embezzle money.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245495&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NJNrDvoZWD4HbUeFYJJ-gbO0SS2QZl8Ptl3vQABmC0E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245495">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245496" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386663765"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Antivaxers like to claim with one breath that Thorsen’s papers are invalid, yet with the next breath that Wakefield’s autism/MMR studies are scientifically sound..."</p> <p>A criminal involved in embezzling money on "scientific studies". Sorry, that's a problem. Wakefield's papers (not studies) came to the conclusion that more investigation is needed. That's all, folks. That was Wakefield's conclusion.... You have a problem with more investigation is needed? Of course you do... Idiots.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245496&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a7s5iGV5UdwFL3u4ETG47wejP77lqrZ3eV2eA9FX3hs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245496">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245497" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386663783"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's funny... I googled, and the only praising comes from...AoA.</p> <p><a href="https://www.google.com/#q=katie+couric+HPV+controversy&amp;tbm=nws&amp;undefined=undefined">https://www.google.com/#q=katie+couric+HPV+controversy&amp;tbm=nws&amp;undefine…</a></p> <p><i> He embezzled money. He was an author on that study. Enough said. </i> Just because someone's a douche doesn't mean they're a bad scientist. Unless they take money from a law firm in exchange for finding specific results, torture handicapped children to get samples, then cook your books to get those results because what you thought would be a slam dunk isn't there, then sit and claim it's nothing but a smear compaign by Big Shadow Agency of the Week and you're a martyr. That makes a bad scientist, and that's when you discount a study. Although that few children hardly a study makes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245497&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kWkEab73YpH2iYAEIeGRoRa6XlF6se5Vriv9AADBBNA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245497">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245498" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386663876"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> That’s all, folks. That was Wakefield’s conclusion…. You have a problem with more investigation is needed? Of course you do… Idiots. </i> Actually, the "paper" didn't even say that, it said there wasn't anything. But Wakefield himself called a press conference in which he stated the MMR should be suspended.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245498&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vNa25Xhi9EqNmjOChss1lgNKXJxxULHs_j0A6aYF1kI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245498">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245499" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386665263"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"That’s funny… I googled, and the only praising comes from…AoA."</p> <p>Let's be realistic here. People are waking up. When you go on a blog site and hundreds of people are on there praising Couric and telling the stories about their children's injuries due to this vaccine.... That shows that we are winning the war against this vaccine. Even my family's pediatrician who proclaims all vaccines to be safe and effective -- has warned me about this one (as if I needed his help there). Sorry guys, you're losing on this one. Give it up. Although, anyway I can gather you all together soon... I'd like to inject you with 10,000 hpv vaccines just to see how that works out for you. Dr. Paul (Pr)Offit says that he can make himself available this weekend. Anyone?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245499&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ht73YVvs2W1H2VWHLlqaNNoPw5QLA0vf4yqDrTFEfY0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245499">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245500" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386665573"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Interesting that Joyous would be talking about "hundreds" of stories, when we see actually very few VAERS entries, including several that start with "Respondent writes that she saw a story on the Internet".....not to mention the one about a girl who died in a car accident months after receiving the vaccine....yet these are still the same cases that are trotting out (just the numbers, mind you) by the anti-vaccine folks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245500&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6iqJ_Jd5T96-aG7cQ-AmZYNLaK9gCzeOT0fpRbpdy78"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245500">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245501" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386665597"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One of the best takedowns of Katie's show I've read:</p> <p><a href="http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/12/fourth-estate-why-is-katie-couric-promoting-vaccine-skeptics-100902.html?hp=pm_2">http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/12/fourth-estate-why-is-kat…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245501&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PEAGz2pjL2CH0SdNaLrqw5WmpH9h3VkHdLum9Ec9PQY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michelle (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245501">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245502" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386665786"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>When you go on a blog site and hundreds of people are on there praising Couric and telling the stories about their children’s injuries due to this vaccine…. That shows that we are winning the war against this vaccine.</p></blockquote> <p>Hundreds of people or just a few loudmouths repeating the same tropes over and over?<br /> The evidence is in. Studies from Australia and Scandinavia show that the vaccines work.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245502&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e2jVVrojoq7UgaPc_XGpUfD68zw2xNt-1po5rNd4ssg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245502">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245503" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386666274"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> Let’s be realistic here. People are waking up. When you go on a blog site and hundreds of people are on there praising Couric and telling the stories about their children’s injuries due to this vaccine…. That shows that we are winning the war against this vaccine. </i></p> <p>Versus the millions of doses being given. Hundreds! The data is in, it's a safe vaccine. Perhaps your time would be better spent searching the actual cause of those "devastating injuries," instead of blaming something because you've been scared into it standing out most in your mind. Although, I know for sure my mileage varies on what I would consider a "devastating injury," compared to parents at AoA who would rather see their child dead...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245503&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jf-LuVo9nUO0IzBkDypwdrsksWJj08UB1hAK5ln2YiI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245503">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245504" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386666794"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccines cause autism. My child has autism. My child was vaccinated. Therefore my child has autism because s/he was vaccinated.</p> <p>And so it goes on... An opinion derived without rationality can never be rationally dispelled.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245504&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YtFpWxTco300zNfAqzUigTHM4w3ucc4u1j0_p1KJSS8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeff1971 (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245504">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245505" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386666797"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And, if those "stories" have any validity at all - then they should be entered in VAERS so they can be tracked and investigated....posting those stories on "blogs" does nothing to further the goal of research &amp; instead shows that it is all about spreading fear.....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245505&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8OiWU-CzlhsdXi9un2PEDENLYX3vXzSMqcH_d8M3uHY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245505">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245506" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386666975"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Katie is in spin control mode now. She wrote this in HuffPo</p> <p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katie-couric/vaccine-hpv-furthering-conversation_b_4418568.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katie-couric/vaccine-hpv-furthering-conve…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245506&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1Rx7oUArUvbW8RozVvH1e_hwmD_5doQGvANuUJOAbtY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kelly M Bray (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245506">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245507" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386667501"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Joyous Times, have you seen <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23027469">this study?</a> It looked at 189,629 females who were given at least one dose of Gardasil, and compared reports of reactions on days 1-60, days 1-14, and day 0 after vaccination, compared with a control interval distant in time from vaccination. It found no associations between vaccination and reports of serious reactions.</p> <p>Other studies of more than a million vaccine recipients have found no sign of these serious vaccine reactions you claim are due to Gardasil. Either there is a huge cover-up, which I don't believe is possible, having spent decades working on conventional health care, or you and your fellow antivaccine campaigners are making a terrible mistake that could potentially cost thousands of lives. </p> <p>It is you who are the cranks, by definition, not those who have carefully looked at the evidence and weighed up the benefits and risks of this vaccine. Thankfully it is clear to me that you are in the minority and most people are amenable to rational argument.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245507&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JaRQnGZ6AIW8kinCGwRAJnyCc5dNmDns54KCpXiv_mg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245507">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245508" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386667513"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>There is currently an inordinate amount of straw-clutching that permeates the antivax sphere. Perhaps this is a sign of their desperation in what for them are very lean times.</i></p> <p>I've noticed this too - there've been several comments on other threads where the antivaxers swing by to let us know they've "already won." This must be a difficult time for them. Twenty years ago they were still wrong, but at least they were <i>relevant:<i></i> journalists put them on a level with real experts with "balanced" reporting, scientists spent years and millions of dollars investigating their claims, they scared the bejeezus out of parents with horror stories about how vaccines turned their happy, healthy child into a soulless changeling. </i></p> <p>But while they've been gnawing the one bone, the rest of the world has moved on. Study after large, well-designed study has shown that there was no link between vaccines and autism, at the same time as autism researchers are finding more and more evidence that autism is caused by a combination of genetics and environmental exposures during the first trimester of pregnancy. The journalists who happily exploited bereaved parents and "warrior mommies" to boost their ratings were just as happy to report the outbreaks of measles and pertussis that occurred in communities with low vaccination rates (one would like to think they felt a bit chastised over the whole "false balance" thing as well.) High-profile court cases like Wakefield's trial and the Autism Omnibus made public the glaring inconsistencies between the antivax parent's emotional stories and the objective facts. Parents began to wonder, <i>where are the hundreds of thousands of vaccine-damaged children I keep reading about on the internet?</i></p> <p>But instead of accepting reality and moving on, the antivax community just gets more insulated and paranoid, which alienates non-paranoid people, making the group ever smaller, more paranoid, and more insulated from reality, and so on in a vicious cycle. If this trend continues, I predict that eventually there will only be a single antivaxer left, muttering to him/herself, Gollum-like, "the vaccines is evil, precious....we knows it, precious..." </p> <p>I totally realize that this scenario is probably wildly over-optimistic, but I needed it after my brief foray into crazy-town (I don't know how Lilady does it!) Even there, though, you can see the signs: about half of the antivax posts were by a single woman (one Cynthia or CIA Parker.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245508&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5WR-lxsUjUMbxy0d_dP_lNElq8QEkR13ro7Fw8u98sw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sarah A (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245508">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245509" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386667710"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh for FSM's sake... Just read Kouric's "I'm just letting people ask questions" crap (at least it appears under her name as opposed to the anonymous piece on the "Katie" site).</p> <p>If she's concluded Gardasil's safe and that the evidence shows the vaccine's safe, why let unsupported accusations from known activists on the air? So much for her being anything resembling an ethical journalist.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245509&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RQ9PMz1FxL6mPX13y_W2T-nkNnMi6hX_uD4MpVNwccg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Scottynuke (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245509">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245510" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386667931"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And why is her statement about the science/medical community/no evidence that the illnesses cam from the vaccine on HuffPo and not on the show?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245510&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bkisNWv6UmJYIaB1VvXsz_YBKGNC3trzsUxT1J6ZbGk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245510">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245511" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386670680"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Joyous Times</p> <blockquote><p>Oh this is wonderful… so we start vaccinating young girls at 11 (or so…), for a vaccine that protects for at least 6 years… Which will bring the child to age 17… But we really have no idea after that (and we certainly can’t make predictions based upon the unknown) … And that’s *your* argument. omg. Let’s go with that…</p></blockquote> <p>Uh, no. My argument was simply pointing out that your revered doctor who was an author on some of the studies of HPV vaccine was wrong. Whether she forgot her own work or actually lied about it, I don't know. All that matters, insofar as her credibility is concerned, is that she was wrong about how long the vaccine lasts.</p> <p>As more time passes and more research is done, we may find that the vaccine wears off and that a booster might be called for. Or we might find that it protects lifelong. And even if it "only" lasted 5 years, that would be 5 years during which the individual would be protected from the virus. Not ideal, but better than nothing.</p> <blockquote><p>This vaccine may protect you forever!!! Or, it may kill you.</p></blockquote> <p>Well, since there is no verified evidence that it has killed anyone, after millions of doses administered, I'd take my chances with the vaccine over the virus, which has a much worse safety margin.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245511&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kFosijLE-GFdrTAxLDqXrkdYv0MH_X2vkAHLABgX5L0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245511">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245512" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386671020"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've already posted comments on Politico and on the Ho-Po.</p> <p>What was The Troll saying about not seeing any of the many science bloggers posts and mainstream media posts critical of Katie Couric?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245512&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NS2D8EHIubFu168LT-A-H8RxOBeqBK5f7JbKFHcFH0U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245512">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245513" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386671485"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Sarah A: lilady "does it" because it's a labor of love...and because I don't have access to my patients who have questions about vaccines...since I retired from public health.</p> <p>C'mon over to Politico and to the Ho-Po. I'm waiting for you. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245513&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4EX4wsnZoviYyf24KbAHOpMU2Jhdm93oAIB9AcryTNQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245513">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245514" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386672793"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> a researcher who was instrumental in the vaccine being put out there discussing it’s problems </p></blockquote> <p>But that researcher didn't claim that the vaccine was unsafe or ineffectiveeffective, did she? She simply stated a belief that pap smears and treatment for cancer when detected make it unnecessary.</p> <p><b>And clearly she's wrong</b>, since there have been over 12,000 new cases and over 4000 deaths due to cervical cancer this year, despite the availabilty of pap smears and treatments..</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245514&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ikVjN2R42dEw3i9jLzuH4MQCiXUgNDuNeybuI0FTFkc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245514">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245515" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386673507"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Joyous writes: "I’d like to inject you with 10,000 hpv vaccines just to see how that works out for you."</p> <p>And I'd like to educate you so that you stop lying in public. Seems like we're both going to be disappointed, but I always get a kick out of seeing how often antivaxxers fantasize about violence, so thanks for that. Do your fantasies help you deal with your failure to make a factual argument?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245515&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z6uf2ELOStvrnnSEtNsC_3vIBU4gl4Hphlmx5FuDQ60"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Just asking (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245515">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245516" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386673727"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Versus the millions of doses being given. Hundreds!"</p> <p>Ah yes... That's a big deal on a vaccine that we have no history on. No idea if it works, how it works, etc.... Let's inject our daughters with this and hope it prevents cervical cancer down the road. Sounds like a brilliant idea.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245516&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MUjdbB0DizuRNI1_BktWoZ_rlrOiLKHYyL_NuNlDa6c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245516">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245517" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386673863"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Hundreds of people or just a few loudmouths repeating the same tropes over and over?<br /> The evidence is in."</p> <p>Actually, the only loudmouths that are repeating seem to be from your side. We've got Kathy M, Dorit R, etc... A few other lunatics. I am actually seeing a much more varied group on the anti-side. A lot of upset parents with injured kids. Very sad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245517&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="obOHoWF092cSf_wChXAtTy9xUIV6CTZ0PaCnIicXHGA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245517">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245518" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386673980"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"No idea if it works, how it works, etc…. How it works? too bad high school biology seems to be beyond you yet here you are commenting. Dunning-Kruger table for one!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245518&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FCfINNARyAAaym5yCv0AS02yWQTpwu_iazVQ9PTN75I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kelly M Bray (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245518">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245519" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386674440"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>No idea if it works, how it works, etc</p></blockquote> <p>No, we know it works to prevent infection by the most common (and most dangerous) strains of HPV. We know how it works, too. It stimulates the immune system to produce antibodies and memory cells. These prep the body to identify the real virus if it's ever encountered, so the body can mount a response to defeat the virus before it has a chance to establish itself. We also know that it has done just that, with a significant reduction in new HPV infections since the introduction of the vaccine.</p> <blockquote><p>A few other lunatics.</p></blockquote> <p>A few lunatics, huh? I've got 23 different people listed on my post who have criticised Couric, some of whom work for major media outlets, like CBS, Forbes, etc. But, they're just loonies, right? No need to, I don't know, actually address, with evidence, their criticisms.</p> <p>Do you have any actual evidence to support your position? Not stories. Evidence. And what evidence would you require to change your position?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245519&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wBXEMC3sda7mNct4H9SxuPvO9C_HAUmEMa-65RpaxDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245519">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245520" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386675191"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Todd, I think you're being too optimistic. AJP wouldn't recognize evidence if it hit her/him on the butt with a bull fiddle.</p> <p>AJP also conveniently ignores that healthcare professionals (doctors and nurses) are getting the vaccine for their children. Dunning-Krueger isn't in it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245520&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TAgVOj3vqBWn55MNeeq05kZqJBYYPUoYMuoz2lScvyY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245520">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245521" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386676760"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Ah yes… That’s a big deal on a vaccine that we have no history on. No idea if it works, how it works, etc…. Let’s inject our daughters with this and hope it prevents cervical cancer down the road. Sounds like a brilliant idea.</i></p> <p>The fact you don't know if it work or how it work has no bearing on any doctor, nurses, public health worker who know how it work and it is safe to administer to, at least 57 millions peoples without any reported side effect.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245521&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hT9iuglJ2SKGEEdVV9_C9X5UzlbEf0_nEHgDONxRgIg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245521">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245522" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386677962"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Shay</p> <p>I know, I know. But one must try, no? If not for Joyous Times, at least for the lurkers.</p> <p>BTW, I have a new post up responding to Couric's HuffPo article.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245522&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fppb8WjPmmV68KFGFK5s6Nq5NTomVKlzbEZxGhWU5LQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245522">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245523" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386678860"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Wakefield’s papers (not studies) came to the conclusion that more investigation is needed.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh, look, Kathy Jameson's <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/11/01/bullying-over-vaccines/">rhetorical instruction No. 3</a>. How original.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245523&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VFamAa2lu2oGU43OslHuGXzgm50Mfr0j6FGGvUzq8Uo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245523">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245524" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386679021"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Todd W,:</p> <p>We should always remind anti-vaxxers when they try to equate support for vaccines based upon *how many people respond in comments* that the ENTIRE medical consensus ( including specialists) supports vaccines.<br /> How many doctors and nurses etc are THAT?</p> <p>Surveys of the general public ( as well as of professionals) in most English-speaking countries also show widespread support for vaccines as do the *rates* of actual vaccination.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245524&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HKWiV4FhriH8xAZA3HwpGI6o7NuOnBbJG8WsF9FKvqo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245524">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245525" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386679360"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice Walter</p> <p>Indeed. A good point to be made. In terms of the numbers of doctors, nurses, researchers, and general public, the anti-vaxers are very much a minority voice. Unfortunately, they have big lungs and so seem like they're more numerous than they actually are.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245525&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nrZS4wYU10lbZzWsqwyIQMg5PmPYi3CIQQUU0Vht4VA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245525">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245526" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386679842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Wakefield’s papers (not studies) came to the conclusion that more investigation is needed. </p></blockquote> <p>And guess what? More investigation <i><b>was</b></i> carried out. </p> <p>Lots more. Over several years in multiple nations, by multiple independent agencies and investigators, including very large epidemiologic studies. </p> <p>None of which found any evidence whatsoever indicating the existence of a causal relationship between immunization and the development of autism spectrum disorders.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245526&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U0f-n18fqEI67DgSCHjJP7Qz8I2tzLb0C-RDfGuasbs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245526">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245527" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386679977"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Now that the coffee's on, yah, the "it's a paper, not a study" routine promptly delivers up the predictable hilarity:</p> <blockquote><p>Urinary methymalonic-acid excretion is increased in disorders such as Crohn's disease, in which cobalamin excreted in bile is not reabsorbed. A similar problem may have occurred in the children in our study.</p></blockquote> <p>(Any typos mine.) Better let Wakefraud know it wasn't a study, "Joyous Times"; he didn't seem to have gotten the memo.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245527&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6HjPJWH4qg28FlJbXWbomCTrOoU4R8Xc1LhJeBKyc48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245527">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245528" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386681311"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> A lot of upset parents with injured kids. Very sad.</p></blockquote> <p>Do the thousands of families of those who have definitely died from cancers that this vaccine definitely would have prevented not count?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245528&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p6VYc1-5HYaUcBr3Y6EuaKY6oT-yepQ3MW7OOiokWXQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245528">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245529" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386681648"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's really odd that anti-vaccine True Believers repeatedly insist that Wakefield's failed effort was a paper, not a study. </p> <p>In the paper that he wrote to report the results of his litigation-driven study, Wakefield referred to his study as a STUDY: Wakefield wrote, "A similar problem may have occurred in the children in our study. ”</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245529&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4BbQQkxDD-DI4ixmc6f8v7SAvp1SGENAsNXDyey0dhs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245529">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245530" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386682741"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>" People are waking up."</p> <p>Another classic from the vaults.</p> <p>We are always _just around the corner_ from the stunning revolution in which people will throw away their drugs and vaccines and join in the great Woo Awakening.</p> <p>Next week, next month, next century - it's gotta happen, it's just gotta - when the reality here is that a fringe movement managed to achieve one more crumb of mainstream media pseudo-respectability. Rather pitiful, when you think of how much easier it was to manage before the Wakefield debacle.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245530&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5IpAIIJ7Xx8Lp2ER37kfQ8-Se6-DgdmG01G8apNZ7Fg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245530">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245531" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386683972"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>We are always _just around the corner_</i></p> <p>Another example of crank magnetism...the birther movement keeps pounding the same drum.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245531&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iFpWAdTFx41JTUZrRKODsoGZEI25pNpA0KiAFN03RqM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245531">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245532" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386684033"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"It’s really odd that anti-vaccine True Believers repeatedly insist that Wakefield’s failed effort was a paper, not a study." </p> <p>Paper? Investigation? Oh heck, who cares... The main point is that you twits care so much about a paper / investigation / study where the conclusion is that: </p> <p>"We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue."</p> <p>And:</p> <p>"We have identified a chronic enterocolitis in children that may be related to neuropsychiatric dysfunction. In most cases, onset of symptoms was after measles, mumps, and rubella immunisation. Further investigations are needed to examine this syndrome and its possible relation to this vaccine."</p> <p>WTF is so scary about further investigations are needed? Get your collective heads examined. And please, please please get yourselves together in a mass line... Dr. (Pr)Offit is incredibly excited to inject each one of you with 10,000 hpv vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245532&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iDnMmu4_lL8GXUraQTQrNHzo33lkEFyBy6jyvlTzBBI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joyous Times (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245532">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245533" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386684054"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> We are always _just around the corner_ from the stunning revolution in which people will throw away their drugs and vaccines and join in the great Woo Awakening. </i></p> <p>Next month, when Mikey blows all our minds and changes the world forever, the resulting shock wave will cause scores of scientists and doctors the world over to wake up and throw of the shackles of their Pharma Lord Oppressors off, and reveal the truth?!?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245533&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L2ZDiYUQ_7TLQEN38Vn1CDQDyYs3aSZJJFp4oGMxaHM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245533">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245534" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386684335"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> “We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue.” </i> Exactly. At his press conference he stated otherwise. And yet, Andy's friends insist on stating that "scores of other studies have supported his paper." Make up your mind. We know what his paper was, what it insinuated, what he wanted people to believe, what he stated, the cliffhanger of the "viral studies," and how he manipulated the press and the masses to incite a panic. </p> <p><i> WTF is so scary about further investigations are needed? </i> They actually offered him quite a bit of grant money to look at a much larger population. He stalled, and stalled, and that opened doors to questions and investigations. Seems even Andy knew it would be difficult to skew more than a dozen cases. </p> <p>Interestingly enough though, other studies WERE done. And they have all conclusively found the same thing, MMR does not cause autism. They've even looked at other vaccines! And additives! Nada. They did react to concerns, they did look....and it was all for nothing. He made it up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245534&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c_lIZVjndFr8S8PnQ44u8QJdRVxP1vqQVHKKFXBoCHE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AnObservingParty (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245534">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245535" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386684422"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Paper? Investigation? Oh heck, who cares…</p></blockquote> <p>Apparently, you did, right until demonstrated to have said something really lazy and stupid <i>just because it's in the instructions</i>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245535&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bY5Z-FPeVg0DvVZArFcVb1uceKbI_uN81jasdo2A4aw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245535">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245536" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386693539"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad, it is so hard to get good help these days.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245536&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2FVKd7up0VU4CijfmKPkSIAujRvzI2B07Ugw1KfPEho"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245536">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245537" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386694540"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Joyous Time: "WTF is so scary about further investigations are needed?"</p> <p>Which were done. Did you miss these:</p> <p>Vaccine. 2012 Jun 13;30(28):4292-8. Epub 2012 Apr 20.<br /> The combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines and the total number of vaccines are not associated with development of autism spectrum disorder: The first case-control study in Asia.</p> <p>Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.<br /> Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California, 1998-2008.</p> <p>Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.<br /> Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.</p> <p>PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140<br /> Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study. </p> <p>J Autism Dev Disord 2007; 37(2):210-7<br /> MMR-Vaccine and Regression in Autism Spectrum Disorders: Negative Results Presented from Japan.</p> <p>J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;46(6):572-9.<br /> No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.</p> <p>Pediatrics 2006; 118(4):1664-75<br /> No Evidence of Persisting Measles Virus in Peripheral Blood Mononuclear Cells from Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder.</p> <p>Pediatrics 2004; 113(2): 259-66<br /> Age at First Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination in Children with Autism and School-Matched Control Subjects: A Population-Based Study in Metropolitan Atlanta.</p> <p>Pediatrics 2002; 110:957-63<br /> Neurologic Disorders after Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination.</p> <p>BMJ 2002; 324(7334):393-6<br /> Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Bowel Problems or Developmental Regression in Children with Autism: Population Study. </p> <p>So the consensus for the additional studies is that the MMR vaccine does not cause autism, and prevents one real cause of autism, congenital rubella syndrome:</p> <p>BMC Public Health. 2011 May 19;11:340.<br /> Congenital rubella syndrome and autism spectrum disorder prevented by rubella vaccination--United States, 2001-2010.</p> <p>If you have evidence to the contrary, please post the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245537&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WNH7gGgw2F6faDHqNmmMDwNv85ONKcwNaolaxpdLkx4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245537">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245538" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386694885"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>* just around the corner*</p> <p>Yes. The fabled alt med paradigm shift is about to crash tsunamically over the wretched, low-lying, reeking miasma of Orthodoxy, forever washing the green earth clean of its poisoning iniquity.<br /> Think Numenor.</p> <p>More seriously, I've been aware of alt med for about 20 years ( health food / yoga/ TCM even longer) and have followed its ebbs and flows more closely since 2000. Its apologists always promise followers that they are on the cusp of a New Age, they are near the "tipping point" ( another expression I hate) and that they are indeed amongst the very few who have accepted the Truth earlier than the average person who still has far to go.</p> <p>Mikey is the harbinger of the New Golden Age.<br /> And a little loon shall lead them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245538&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L96M1SxlSgnZWTz7WEEcr8aouEpqYpbPWHZ6k4wMogQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245538">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245539" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386694935"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chris - I find this link to be extremely useful for the "less than intelligent:"</p> <p><a href="http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/VaccineStudies.pdf">http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/VaccineStudies.pdf</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245539&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Nwgy8Ko9FIhRwJUCb67YoTsijFbix25gv3N-nJVkme8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245539">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245540" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386695139"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Except, Lawrence, they never click on it. It just does have quite the same impact. Also, if they parrot the stuff about Thorsen, I just have to ask which of the listed papers are by him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245540&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fpPBax7309Jge9L9iUju38ccftiaH_P1V_1ARrUbhEY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245540">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245541" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386697981"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Chris</p> <p>I just wanted to say a very belated "thank you" for your comment at #6 linking to the evidence that Christine Tarsell had abnormal EKGs before receiving the HPV vaccine. I've been posting the link at every discussion on the issue I can find (except, ironically, Huff Po and Katie's own website. I may need to overcome my Facebook-phobia and get an account so I can post comments there.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245541&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YaDDh4Xxj06GwMrbxb2iCBlRzMwXnnuA6kSN1GWzO28"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sarah A (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245541">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245542" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386698622"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You're welcome. While the criteria to get compensated at NVICP is much less than in other legal arenas, it requires some evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245542&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EhwwWgsOm2WP4zaihwz4mTyx6cItmqoL0s5_SGCCYQc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris, (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245542">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245543" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386698623"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>"Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue"</i></p> <p>They certainly were underway. And guess what? They showed that no virus was found in any of the kids on the study (sorry, that should read "paper"?).<br /><a href="http://briandeer.com/wakefield/nick-chadwick.htm">http://briandeer.com/wakefield/nick-chadwick.htm</a></p> <p>This was something Wakefield already knew when he made his statement above (another example of his fraudulent behavior)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245543&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9HASHaTc5iol19d1uOOpLiZp6VUOvZPlaOXaw9KnflE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245543">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245544" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386699098"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dunno if others here had heard about it, but it's semi-joyous times over in Australia, after a tribunal there upheld a government ruling that the Australian Vaccination Network must change its name to avoid deceiving the public about its aims.</p> <p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3898842.htm">http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3898842.htm</a></p> <p>Wonder what moniker Meryl No-one-ever-died-of-whooping-cough Dorey will come up with? The Australian Anti-Vaccination Network (too easy)? Vaccines Are Rape With Penetration (another Dorey-ism)? One certainty - they'll try to string this out indefinitely, garnering ever-greater ridicule in the process.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245544&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r9TxYUUBiG2-YfpAggQoKg73AMKJGPKAvx-5cydLSU0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245544">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245545" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386699533"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sarah, your word is my command....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245545&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3UpVl6fxY1uZSjHt7zLU23_d3VS_DDb0uzlda9MA3CE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245545">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245546" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386699856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wonder if Katie Couric will do a show about antibiotics next.<br /> Maybe she can have a couple of people on whose kids died from some unclear cause a few weeks after having had antibiotics?<br /> And God forbid she have anyone on the show whose life was saved by them. No, that would be taking "balance" to ridiculous extremes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245546&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5y56PfIdyY1TG5LsdZxJoS_2AkH3IIKjjcevufINVjU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245546">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245547" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386707152"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Offtopic,</p> <p>new blog post:</p> <p><a href="http://www.securivm.ca/2013/12/the-brain-is-particularly-efficient.html">http://www.securivm.ca/2013/12/the-brain-is-particularly-efficient.html</a></p> <p>It's been up since last night. Enjoy.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245547&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PbzBbypvsXyJhzV-IbSigJ0LcfK2LOQvmIV8OtZ7sdc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245547">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245548" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386933422"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>WOW, reading these comments... Read this: </p> <p>Dr. Diane Harper was the lead researcher in the development of the human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccines, Gardasil™ and Cervarix™. She is now the latest in a long string of experts who are pressing the red alert button on the devastating consequences and irrelevancy of these vaccines. Dr. Harper made her surprising confession at the 4th International Conference on Vaccination which took place in Reston, Virginia. Her speech, which was originally intended to promote the benefits of the vaccines, took a 180-degree turn when she chose instead to clean her conscience about the deadly vaccines so she “could sleep at night”.</p> <p>Dr. Harper explained in her presentation that the cervical cancer risk in the U.S. is already extremely low, and that vaccinations are unlikely to have any effect upon the rate of cervical cancer in the United States. In fact, 70% of all H.P.V. infections resolve themselves without treatment in a year, and the number rises to well over 90% in two years. Harper also mentioned the safety angle.</p> <p>All trials of the vaccines were done on children aged 15 and above, despite them currently being marketed for 9-year-olds. </p> <p>44 girls are officially known to have died from these vaccines. There have been over 32,000 reported incidents of serious side effects. The reported side effects include Guillian Barré Syndrome (paralysis lasting for years, or permanently — sometimes eventually causing suffocation), lupus, seizures, blood clots, and brain inflammation. Parents are usually not made aware of these risks. Japan has banned this vaccine because it is too dangerous. Wake up you idiots.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245548&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="F9oU8jZoJ66pdgdLiBwy26Wq0fuANzKFgyTVEvwq1vI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sin (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245548">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245549" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386935994"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sin, instead of repeating demonstrably false tropes you copied from a website, maybe you should read this peer-reviewed study:<br /><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23027469">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23027469</a></p> <p>It follows about 189,000 women (yes, including 9 year olds) and finds none of these side effects you are claiming. as for Diane Harper, I suggest you read this :</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/16/yet-another-antivaccine-meme-rises-from-the-grave-again-no-diane-harper-doesnt-hate-gardasil/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/16/yet-another-antivaccine-me…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245549&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZaGi9GYb5BOoBOWIKZlgALVAMl1ARv0MbXIQOpV8sTA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AdamG (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245549">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245550" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386936502"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Sin</p> <p>A few corrections are needed in your post. First off, Dr. Diane Harper has said that the vaccines are safe (e.g., PMID 19962185). She has downplayed the efficacy of vaccines and overstated the value of pap smears, though.</p> <p>Second, I haven't looked at all trials of both vaccines, but the Gardasil insert lists at least one study that included 9-year-olds: "The individuals who were monitored using VRC-aided surveillance included 10,088 individuals 9 through 45 years of age at enrollment who received GARDASIL and 7,995 individuals who received AAHS control or saline placebo."</p> <p>Third, there is no verified evidence that any girl has been killed by the vaccine. There have been reports of deaths following vaccination, but if you look closer, you will find that they died from preexisting heart conditions, cancer, car accidents, etc., none of which is connected with the vaccines.</p> <p>Fourth, there may have been a large number of <i>reports</i> of injury, but again, how many have been validated and confirmed? Note that some of the reports consist of things like "read online" or "heard on the radio". Some of the reports, upon investigation, are also found to be caused by something else completely. </p> <p>Finally, Japan has not banned the vaccine. They suspended the recommendation of it, because the public was concerned about adverse effects, but it is still available. (<a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2813%2961831-0/fulltext">http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2813%296…</a>)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245550&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HcQEHXcoS3TrUkq3727JArEU65i30clL7MmJi9aUcEI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245550">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245551" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386937444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sin -</p> <p>First of all, you're plagiarising. Your entire screed is lifted from elsewhere on the web - with the possible exception of "Wake up you idiots," which is hardly a substantive contribution.</p> <p>Second of all, the people you're plagiarising from are either liars or too incompetent to do their research correctly. Diane Harper was not the lead researcher on development of either vaccine, and the total number of people "officially known to have died from these vaccines" is <b>zero,</b> not 44. In fact, it's a paranoid bunch you've chosen to plagiarise from; following back the trail of what you chose to post (a step <i>you</i> really should have done yourself) I find the following in the article by "Sarah Cain" which claims to be the original reporting on Harper supposedly unburdening herself so she "can sleep at night":</p> <blockquote><blockquote> “... in those cases where [HPV] doesn’t [clear itself], and isn’t treated, it can lead to pre-cancerous cells which may develop into cervical cancer.” - Dr. Diane Harper </blockquote> <p>One must understand how the establishment’s word games are played to truly understand the meaning of the above quote, and one needs to understand its unique version of “science”.</p> <p>When they report that untreated cases “can” lead to something that “may” lead to cervical cancer, it really means that the relationship is merely a hypothetical conjecture that is profitable if people actually believe it.</p></blockquote> <p>This is the equivalent of saying "Tom Cruise announced on the TV that he was madly in love with me! All you have to do is realize that he has a secret code in which 'Katie Holmes' is actually his code name for me, and it's clear he's jumping on couches to demonstrate his love for me!"</p> <p>Third of all, <b>we've heard it all before</b>. Up at the top of the page in the right-hand pane, there's a box marked "Search this blog". Next time you're tempted to post a plagiarised rant, at least check for the very likely possibility that we have literally read <i>every bit</i> of your ill-informed gobbledygook before you even picked it up and swallowed it whole from the crank site where you got it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245551&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xn_Lfb7t2Jmqx6hsD0Q41qmY-lilPRrgCJ7UksLZvDs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Antaeus Feldspar (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245551">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245552" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386939679"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Wake up you idiots</i><br /> I'm gonna have to dock Sin 5 points for forgetting "Sheeple".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245552&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FXtEDUyCW7fftXBFraOHPRTNBLdrmmMQGTp9l2vtPGE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245552">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245553" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386939959"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>He/she didn't ask who was paying us, either. Take off another 5.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245553&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tbKvoHkXJFAQXllXsquA9ZvtvMoKV3YC_5SP8zUe6x4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245553">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245554" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386940789"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And, no ALL CAPS -5</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245554&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Uglrxvm1JhnJhqd3XUo0zfMI78zhwW_CjgREslEi5fg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sheepmilker (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245554">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245555" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386942091"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I found where "sin" lifted part of his diatribe from. </p> <p><a href="http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/steps-authentic-happiness-positive-psychology/2013/dec/5/vaccine-disinformation-katie-couric-hpv-and-jenny-/">http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/steps-authentic-hap…</a></p> <p>The pity is that the Washington Times blogger got it all wrong about who sponsored those "Annual International Public Conference on Vaccination"</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Public_Conference_on_Vaccination">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Public_Conference_on_Vaccina…</a></p> <p>"The fourth conference was held from October 2-4, 2009 in Reston, Virginia. Guest speakers included Diane Harper, Bonnie S. Dunbar (again), Dr. Bob Sears, Joe Mercola, Gary Null, Dan Olmsted, and Rick Rollens.[4] At this conference, Wakefield received a Humanitarian Award for "his compassion, brave spirit and uncompromising commitment to improving the health of children and the biological integrity of future generations.”[5] At this conference, Harper's remarks about the HPV vaccine, including the argument that the rate of cervical cancer will not decrease as a result of this vaccine's use, were particularly controversial.[6]"</p> <p>- 5 points for plagiarism</p> <p>- 5 points for not knowing the NVIC sponsored the conference</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245555&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dtavDB_YAEt2ZcD6TyXew7yNKRzCyFPKf-V0E4CNQgo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245555">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245556" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1386943821"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Wakefield received a Humanitarian Award for “[...] the biological integrity of future generations.</i></p> <p>It's always about Purity of Essence and Preserving the Bloodline with these feckers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245556&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NvlpUhi8hx1M1iGYfX8PXhU1xJlFVcM1dA7WucYN_Gw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245556">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245557" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1389784117"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In that interview, I noticed Dr. Harper said<br /> "I looked at the fact that Gardasil doesn't last long enough to<br /> prevent cervical cancer..."</p> <p>That seemed wrong, so I emailed Dr. Harper. She wrote back and said:</p> <p>--snip--<br /> you are correct, I should be quoted as saying</p> <p>"We don't know yet whether Gardasil lasts<br /> long enough to prevent cervical cancer without a booster shot", </p> <p>So I do give you permission to print that in your blog!<br /> -- snip --</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245557&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6PJO122kHZaFHDT3gbBrTXn7dJTtOaks539GCR2KGjM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dan Kegel (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245557">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245558" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1389788444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Nice catch!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245558&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xou5W7rK4_4x00zpYbDo6AHbCdB3Im1PzQ36wNJs1SE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Antaeus Feldspar (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245558">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1245559" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1389804124"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://i.imgur.com/w9wHl48.jpg">What Antaeus said.</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1245559&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L2yeVImDO8nPBs8SLMP_jfclIk1tlrpxKepVvxWbvf0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1245559">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2013/12/05/katie-couric-on-the-hpv-vaccine-antivaccine-or-irresponsible-journalist-you-be-the-judge%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 04 Dec 2013 23:05:43 +0000 oracknows 21675 at https://scienceblogs.com Yet another antivaccine meme rises from the grave again: No, Diane Harper doesn't hate Gardasil https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/16/yet-another-antivaccine-meme-rises-from-the-grave-again-no-diane-harper-doesnt-hate-gardasil <span>Yet another antivaccine meme rises from the grave again: No, Diane Harper doesn&#039;t hate Gardasil</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yet another zombie antivaccine meme rises from the grave to join its fellows</p> <p>Oh, no, not again!</p> <p>It was just two days ago that I decided to take on a zombie antivaccine meme that just keeps rising from the dead over and over and over again. I'm referring to the claim that Andrew Wakefield has been exonerated by legal rulings compensating children for alleged MMR-induced vaccine injury. <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/14/an-zombie-antivaccine-meme-rises-from-the-grave-again/">As I pointed out</a>, this particular claim is a steaming, stinking turd with no science (or even facts) behind it. As I further explained, even if a court rules that vaccines cause autism, that is not scientific evidence that vaccines do, in fact, cause autism. The courts screw up all the time on science, and court rulings cannot be considered a reliable indication of science. The example I like to use is the ruling against Dow Corning back in the 1990s that silicone breast implants were responsible for all sorts of autoimmune diseases, when epidemiological studies showed that they did not. I had hoped to rest after that and have fun either discussing or deconstructing scientific studies (whether I deconstruct them or discuss them depends upon their quality), leaving any further public service demolitions of zombie antivaccine memes for another time.</p> <p>Then I happened to see Mike Adam's wretched hive of scum and quackery yesterday, NaturalNews.com, and right there on the main page was a post entitled <a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/041644_Gardasil_vaccination_scam_HPV_vaccine.html" rel="nofollow">Lead Gardasil developer clears conscience, admits vaccine is useless and deadly</a>, and I knew my work wasn't done. I had seen the article that "inspired" this particular antivaccine zombie meme several times before leading up to this. Like the previous one, it had appeared on Facebook multiple times. I hadn't had to unfriend anyone because of it, but I had seen it. It had appeared an several antivaccine and "alternative health websites" basically verbatim (for instance, <a href="http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/208-the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-qsleep-at-nightq-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://www.undergroundhealth.com/the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-sleep-at-night/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and <a href="http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2264099/pg1" rel="nofollow">here</a>). The article had been starting to annoy me almost as much as the "Wakefield wuz right 'cause the courts said so" meme. And now it's showing up on one of the two biggest, baddest quack websites on the entire Internet, NaturalNews.com. It's like waving a cape in front of a bull or sending up the Bat Signal to summon Batman.</p> <p>So what are the basic claims? Well, this particular meme follows a pattern in which Diane Harper, one of the investigators on the clinical studies for Gardasil has had some sort of attack of conscience and now wants to "come clean" about the vaccine:</p> <blockquote><p> Dr. Diane Harper was the lead researcher in the development of the human papilloma virus vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix. She is the latest to come forward and question the safety and effectiveness of these vaccines. She made the surprising announcement at the 4th International Public Conference on Vaccination, which took place in Reston, Virginia on Oct. 2nd through 4th, 2009. Her speech was supposed to promote the Gardasil and Cervarix vaccines, but she instead turned on her corporate bosses in a very public way. When questioned about the presentation, audience members remarked that they came away feeling that the vaccines should not be used. </p></blockquote> <p>What's not mentioned is that this particular article is that the 4th International Public Conference on Vaccination was a conference <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/crank-conferences-a-parody-of-science-based-medicine-that-can-suck-in-even-reputable-scientists-and-institutions/">held by one of the oldest and most established antivaccine groups</a>, the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC). That's the group founded by Barbara Loe Fisher, the grande dame of the antivaccine movement, the woman who was antivaccine before it was <a href="http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/">fashionable to be antivaccine</a>. Without Barbara Loe Fisher, there might not be J.B. Handley, Mark Blaxill, Dan Olmsted, Jenny McCarthy, or even Jake Crosby. I do not mean that as a complement. The NVIC is known for deceptive antivaccine advertising campaigns (is there any other kind?), a "memorial" web page for "victims" of vaccines called (appropriately enough) the <a href="http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Memorial.aspx" rel="nofollow">International Memorial for Vaccine Victims</a>, and, of course, holding antivaccine conferences like the one at which Diane Harper appeared. It was a conference that was chock full of antivaccine speakers and a whole lot of "autism biomed" quackery, up to and including at least two talks on homeopathy to treat autism. It doesn't get quackier than that.</p> <p>And it was four years ago, which reminds me that this story, with similar or the same wording, has popped up periodically ever since 2009. Indeed, a chiropractor cited the very same article in 2011 in the comments of this <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/beware-hpv-dna-in-gardasil/">post</a>, quoting an article with exactly the wording of the <a href="http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/208-the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-qsleep-at-nightq-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested.html">article</a> being promoted by NaturalNews.com.</p> <p>Knowing what the conference was about (hint: it wasn't science) also allows me to put the lie to the claim in these stories that Harper was there to "promote Gardasil." If that's what she was there for, then she was really, really in the wrong place. I can't imagine a much worse place for a pro-Gardasil researcher to appear. Maybe at a meeting of <a href="http://sanevax.org/victims-2/vaccine-victims-memorial/" rel="nofollow">SaneVax</a> members or members of the (Not-So) Thinking Moms' Revolution. Of course, Harper wouldn't be the first researcher to have unwittingly accepted a speaking invitation to a questionable or even crank conference without realizing what they were agreeing to. For instance, Tom Jefferson of the Cochrane Group accepted an invitation to the same conference until he realized that he would be receiving an award along with Andrew Wakefield who would be getting the <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/crank-conferences-a-parody-of-science-based-medicine-that-can-suck-in-even-reputable-scientists-and-institutions/" rel="nofollow">NVIC’s Humanitarian Award</a>. I must admit that, even four years later, I can't figure out why Harper agreed to speak at this conference and have parts of her talk appear in the antivaccine propaganda movie <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/11/18/anti-vaccine-propaganda-lands-in-new-yor/" rel="nofollow">The Greater Good</a>.</p> <p>Around the same time, as Ethan Huff of NaturalNews.com reports, Harper was quoted as saying things that sound anti-Gardasil. One that he cites comes from CBS News. What is not mentioned is that this article is by Sharyl Attkisson, an execrably credulous reporter for CBS who is antivaccine to the core and an <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/10/08/complain-to-cbs-cbs-resident-anti-vaccin/">admirer of Andrew Wakefield</a>. She's even been <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/08/01/sharyl-attkisson-of-cbs-and-generation-r/">caught exchanging information</a> with bloggers for the antivaccine crank blog Age of Autism. But what did Harper actually say? In the article, she is portrayed as claiming that the vaccine is as deadly as cervical cancer. What she actually said was somewhat more nuanced than that, and it sounds to me as though she was selectively quoted. For one thing, a lot of what she said was quoted as being about Cervarix, which is the HPV vaccine sold in Europe, as compared to Gardasil, which is the HPV vaccine sold in the United States by Merck. Here's what she's quoted as saying in the <a href="http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/208-the-lead-vaccine-developer-comes-clean-so-she-can-qsleep-at-nightq-gardasil-and-cervarix-dont-work-are-dangerous-and-werent-tested.html" rel="nofollow">article</a> floating around the Internet:</p> <blockquote><p> Dr. Harper explained in her presentation that the cervical cancer risk in the U.S. is already extremely low, and that vaccinations are unlikely to have any effect upon the rate of cervical cancer in the United States. In fact, 70% of all H.P.V. infections resolve themselves without treatment in a year, and the number rises to well over 90% in two years. Harper also mentioned the safety angle. All trials of the vaccines were done on children aged 15 and above, despite them currently being marketed for 9-year-olds. </p></blockquote> <p>All of which is true but irrelevant. An infection doesn't have to result in cervical cancer 100% of the time to make it worth vaccinating against. Even if the infection results in cancer only 1% of the time or less it could well be worth vaccinating against if the vaccine is safe, and, contrary to the claims by antivaccinationists, the HPV vaccine is <a href="http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1363509">very, very safe indeed</a>, with the most serious adverse reactions generally being syncope and skin reactions. The deaths and thousands of adverse reactions reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) database have never been causally linked to the HPV vaccine. VAERS, as I've pointed out many times, engages in minimal examination of individual reports, and anyone can submit them. It can also be (and has been) used for "dumpster diving" to try to find correlations that <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/11/20/dumpster-diving-in-the-vaers-database-again/">don't hold up to scrutiny</a>. Lawyers have used vaccine litigation to <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/01/18/how-vaccine-litigation-distorts-the-vaer/">distort the VAERS database</a>. That's why VAERS is pretty useless for determining causality from correlation. It wasn't designed for that. It was designed as an early warning system with high sensitivity but very low specificity to pick up early warning signs of potential adverse events.</p> <p>As for the <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml" rel="nofollow">article from 2009 by Sharyl Attkisson</a>, the key claim cited by the zombie meme article and repeated by Huff at NaturalNews.com is this:</p> <blockquote><p> "The rate of serious adverse events (from Gardasil) is on par with the death rate of cervical cancer," admitted Dr. Harper at that time, refuting a pro-Gardasil piece published by Slate. "Gardasil has been associated with at least as many serious adverse events as there are deaths from cervical cancer developing each year." </p></blockquote> <p>The interesting thing about this quote is that in an interview with Ben Goldacre Harper denied saying that the HPV vaccine is deadlier than cancer:</p> <blockquote><p> So I contacted Professor Harper. For avoidance of doubt, so that there can be no question of me misrepresenting her views, unlike the Express, I will explain Professor Harper’s position on this issue in her own words. They are unambiguous.</p> <p>“I did not say that Cervarix was as deadly as cervical cancer. I did not say that Cervarix could be riskier or more deadly than cervical cancer. I did not say that Cervarix was controversial, I stated that Cervarix is not a ‘controversial drug’. I did not ‘hit out’ – I was contacted by the press for facts. And this was not an exclusive interview.”</p> <p>Professor Harper did not “develop Cervarix”, as the Sunday Express said, but she did work on some important trials of Gardasil, and also Cervarix. “Gardasil is not a ‘sister vaccine’ as the Express said, it is a different compound. I do not know of the side effects of Cervarix as it is not available in the US.” Furthermore she did not say that Cervarix was being over marketed. “I did say that Merck was egregiously overmarketing Gardasil in the US- but Gardasil and Cervarix are not the same vaccines.” </p></blockquote> <p>It is interesting how this <a href="http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=138519.msg833602#msg833602" rel="nofollow">UK article sounds</a> so much like the Attkisson hit piece against Gardasil, down to the same sort of rhetoric. Which is how I understood her misgivings about Gardasil as being: Not that Gardasil is ineffective, not that it's dangerous, but that its benefits might be oversold, which is not an unreasonable concern. These accounts also almost uniformly list Harper as the "lead researcher" on Gardasil. I've described why Harper was in reality not what that title is clearly meant to imply, namely the main researcher who developed Gardasil, but I think <a href="http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/gardasil-researcher-against-vaccine-myth-debunked/">Skeptical Raptor</a> did an even better job than I did. Basically, Harper was <a href="http://www.childrensmercy.org/content/uploadedFiles/Diane%20Harper(3).pdf">principal investigator</a> for some of the clinical trials for Gardasil and helped design them. She did not design the vaccine. She had much less to do with the development of Cervarix, and she does appear to be <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3216348/">more enthusiastic for Cervarix</a> than <a href="http://www.childrensmercy.org/content/uploadedFiles/Diane%20Harper(3).pdf">for Gardasil</a> because Cervarix has crossreactivity with more cancer-causing HPV types. In any case, in 2011, Harper was quoted as <a href="http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/dangerous-nonsense-in-the-sunday-express/">saying</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>I remain a vaccine supporter; and am grateful that GSK and merck have developed the vaccines.</p></blockquote> <p>Her other concerns were that unless Gardasil provides more than 15 years worth of protection against HPV it would only shift the age of diagnosis later and might not provide lifelong protection. In any case, my feeling is that Harper's views have evolved. She became disillusioned with Gardasil but looks upon next generation HPV vaccines as potentially much more promising. She also feared that advertising was leading women to believe that if they are vaccinated with Gardasil they no longer require Pap smears. Finally, in the US, where Pap smear screening keeps the incidence of invasive cervical cancer low, she was concerned that the vaccine might provide marginal benefit in women who are very punctilious about their screening, although she never disputed that it would still protect against the reproductive consequences of HPV infection. It should be pointed out that her calculations to back up this assertion are not universally accepted and have been <a href="http://www.npr.org/2011/09/19/140543977/hpv-vaccine-the-science-behind-the-controversy">criticized</a>.</p> <p>The truly amusing thing about the NaturalNews.com article is the <a href="http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/dr-diane-harper-hpv-vaccines-the-tin-hat-version/">paranoia behind it</a>. As quoted above, in her interview four years ago with Ben Goldacre Harper disavowed the way her statements about Gardasil and HPV vaccines were being characterized by the press and antivaccine groups. Of course, in a way she had no one to blame but herself. She still hasn't apologized for speaking at an a wretched hive of scum and quackery of an antivaccine <strike>meeting</strike> quackfest, where her nuanced views on HPV vaccination were guaranteed to be misinterpreted and misrepresented as the "lead investigator" for Gardasil development having decided that HPV vaccination doesn't work and is dangerous. She was either hopelessly naive or high on her newfound fame that she was enjoying four years ago, and I really wish Ben Goldacre had asked her about her appearance speaking at the NVIC. In any case, perhaps realizing her mistake, she spoke to Goldacre. That, of course, was viewed as the only thing it could be viewed as by antivaccine loons, evidence that <a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/041644_Gardasil_vaccination_scam_HPV_vaccine.html" rel="nofollow">big pharma must have gotten to her</a> or she is mentally ill:</p> <blockquote><p> But not long after clearing her conscience on this important issue so that she could sleep at night, Dr. Harper basically retracted all of her statements, claiming that media reports citing them were made up. What? The vaccine industry or some other power apparently got to Dr. Harper and convinced her to change her story -- either that or she is schizophrenic. </p></blockquote> <p>Implying that someone you disagree with must have changed her mind because she was paid or threatened or because she is mentally ill. Stay classy, Ethan. Stay classy. It's nice to see that the people who work for Mike Adams are just as classy as he is. To take a trip down memory lane, I can't help but point out that in October 2009, Adams himself <a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/027225_vaccine_cancer_cervical.html" rel="nofollow">first made this charge</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Now, I can't prove that Merck intimidated Dr. Harper into changing her story, but based on public court documents, this is a type of behavior in which Merck has apparently engaged. And I can't prove that Dr. Harper changed her story, but I wouldn't blame her if she did, especially if she was being threatened with losing her career. </p></blockquote> <p>Or maybe Dr. Harper finally realized that some of her previous statements, such as <a href="http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-women/2009/03/30/is-gardasil-more-effective-in-older-teens">this one speculating</a> about a link between Gardasil vaccination and amyotropic lateral sclerosis (ALS, a.k.a. Lou Gehrig's disease) were irresponsible. Maybe she learned her lesson about being too speculative with the press. Also, it's clear from her more recent writings that she is definitely supportive of Cervarix, less so of Gardasil. Whatever her reasons, Adams' rant is nothing more than a reverse version of the pharma shill gambit in which he claims that pharma intimidation is causing a noted clinical investigator to cower in fear, shut up, and toe the line. Maybe she realized she screwed up big time when she appeared at the NVIC conference. Certainly I'm unaware of her having appeared at any other antivaccine quackfests since 2009. Certainly she never appeared at AutismOne, the premier antivaccine quackfest.</p> <p>On the other hand, I fear that we skeptics are a bit too quick to dismiss Harper's prior statements as having been misquotes when it is clear that she did, at least for a while, either wittingly or unwittingly give aid and comfort to the antivaccine movement through inflammatory statements about "experimentation" giving Gardasil to 12-year-olds and her speculation that Gardasil might be linked to ALS even though there was no good evidence to support that link. That she's straightened up and flown right since late 2009 is a good thing, but her irresponsible, borderline antivaccine statements in multiple media outlets before that were too numerous to ignore. It's highly unlikely that her statements were all misquotes or taken out of context, and they live on, thanks to websites like that of Mike Adams. It's good that Harper has stopped making them and hasn't appeared at any further antivaccine quackfests like the NVIC conference since 2009, but we shouldn't forget her previous statements. Even though she's disavowed them for the most part, they keep coming back to haunt us as zombie memes that never die just like this one.</p> <p>I fully expect that this particular meme will continue for the rest of my life, with the exact same article showing up periodically, being Tweeted all over the Internet, and spread all over Facebook, even though the basic article dates back to 2009. Zombie antivaccine Internet memes never die. They always rise again.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Thu, 08/15/2013 - 22:04</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cervarix" hreflang="en">Cervarix</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cervical-cancer" hreflang="en">Cervical Cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/diane-harper" hreflang="en">Diane Harper</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/gardasil" hreflang="en">gardasil</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/hpv" hreflang="en">HPV</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/human-papilloma-virus" hreflang="en">human papilloma virus</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccine" hreflang="en">vaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235253" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376634309"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The groups that oppose vaccines latch onto anyone who is a physician (or has an MD, whether they see patients in practice or not) who in any way, shape or form has the slightest appearance of opposing vaccines (hence why Wakefield, Sears and Gordon are all but deities to the antivaccine minions) Even Gordon just had to tell us yesterday that Joel Shapiro, one of his patient's parents on that CBS-LA news video that told the camera that "measles isn't that serious" and that he (Shapiro) wasn't going to vaccinate his own daughter until she was 4 years old was himself an MD (though thankfully not a pediatrician), as though that somehow strengthen's Gordon's ridiculous vaccine claims.</p> <p>I think this is more like whack-a-meme on some days as to how these things keep popping up. During Pima County's 2008 measles outbreak (21 cases), a local news station interviewed a pediatric infectious disease doctor--who urged parents to get their children vaccinated if they weren't--and then ended the piece interviewing an adult doctor (Jane Orient, MD) who told the camera that she had concerns about the safety of the MMR vaccine and that measles "wasn't that serious". I don't know if this is just clueless or ambitious media folk looking to create a controversy, or whether the tendrils of antivaccine groups have truly confused the thinking of enough people that almost any reporter/journals/newscaster doing an article on vaccines has been brainwashed into thinking they aren't providing "fair balance" if they don't dig up some antivaccine physician for their piece.</p> <p>On the bright side, the link here to Adam's article (and the link on Adam's own page on Harper and Gardasil) sends you to some article on :Weather radicalization worsening, global food supply at increased risk of regional failures", which is fine by me (perhaps there is a sentient entity on the internet who favors science-based medicine being mischievous).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235253&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_V3ntREZo16e2IvGI1t-_jUJNf-lo4HN8OeBvZKGKwo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235253">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235254" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376634762"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Harper has backtracked on her previous statements, but I haven't seen her disavowing some of the most stupid ones - including the suggestion that Pap tests alone are adequate against HPV. From a post of mine in another forum responding to an antivaxer flogging the Harper story:</p> <p>Based on the CBS article Dr. Harper does some questionable juggling of numbers to suggest that the very small risk of serious side effects due to the vaccine outweighs the risk of death from cervical cancer. Dr. Harper should know better than to only cite death as an endpoint from HPV infection. The HPV virus causes up to a million new cases of cervical dysplasia each year in the U.S. and in one recent year over 12,300 cases of cervical cancer. Many of those dysplasia cases and all cases of cancer require unpleasant and costly medical and/or surgical interventions that can carry a risk of death and loss of fertility. The number of cases of death and serious disease convincingly linked to HPV vaccines is zero.</p> <p>Note also that Harper makes the mistake of assuming that expanded Pap testing is enough to prevent cervical cancer. While very useful, Pap tests do not prevent infection. Since we don't know which infections and dysplasias will clear on their own, women must still undergo added tests and invasive procedures to eradicate infections that could result in cancer and death.</p> <p><a href="http://www.npr.org/2011/09/19/140543977/hpv-vaccine-the-science-behind-the-controversy">http://www.npr.org/2011/09/19/140543977/hpv-vaccine-the-science-behind-…</a></p> <p>In the end, Harper's recantations must be upsetting the antivax crowd:</p> <p>"Having been quoted in a previous story in the Daily Mail as saying that the HPV vaccination programme was a "mass experiment in public health", Evidence Matters made contact with Dr Harper and she made the following comments:</p> <p>Harper: "I remain a vaccine supporter; and am grateful that GSK and Merck have developed the vaccines."</p> <p><a href="http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/dangerous-nonsense-in-the-sunday-express/">http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/dangerous-nonsense-in-the-sunday…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235254&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Bh-souDPiB51zXmKHGdmGgFNtWENMXd9fVzFeTtSLa0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235254">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235255" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376635172"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oooh. I'm totally adding those links to the post.</p> <blockquote><p>Harper has backtracked on her previous statements, but I haven’t seen her disavowing some of the most stupid ones – including the suggestion that Pap tests alone are adequate against HPV.</p></blockquote> <p>Or the speculation that Gardasil might have been associated with cases of ALS, which is probably the most irresponsible quote I've seen attributed to her.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235255&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wMr4KQgKHEsLR_gTL9LLELB_AkwlMHZZ8mcdG5rFonQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235255">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235256" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376635821"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OMG people, you have to see this - the latest anti-vax propaganda being posted:</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/DrRachie/status/368300621008338945/photo/1">https://twitter.com/DrRachie/status/368300621008338945/photo/1</a></p> <p>This is crazy!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235256&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qBm_J0bDj7lrkRg5SEJZzfgqz-cXA4TVLlVDxZivM9I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235256">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235257" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376636384"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Lawrence</p> <p>That's actually a satirical poster done up as an example of how silly and extreme anti-vax ads can be: <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com/photoshop-phriday/antivaccination-ads-mccarthy/">http://www.somethingawful.com/photoshop-phriday/antivaccination-ads-mcc…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235257&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="g_guywua187RDnh0AelgwSE6IQm0-mI4DXtcGnllPsU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235257">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235258" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376637095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yeah, it's satire. I'm surprised Dr. Rachie fell for it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235258&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JxOfphVdoBtPE-EIDKdfZQ9RyGbnDsPW-hcpImH609U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235258">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235259" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376637109"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If you didn't know where it came from, how could you possibly know that poster was a parody?</p> <p>I find it completely convincing as an example of the sort of fear mongering antivaxxers engage in.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235259&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kn6Kutirm8kZlf9q48B5etGJ5rbVxfOhdBJHvJ4sTs4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235259">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235260" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376637254"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It says where it came from in the photo itself: somethingawful.com.</p> <p>Enough diversion; let's get back to the use, misuse, and abuse of Dr. Harper by the antivaccine movement.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235260&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M7uAf7Mi4lJiq7rhJrSBRyRyBy21sJdTgvmXyeVMh6g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235260">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1235259#comment-1235259" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235261" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376637504"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Damn Orac - thanks for pointing that out. I'll have a word with the wife before she sends that to anyone else.......</p> <p>As to Harper, medical professionals in general should be extremely cautious with whom they socialize, because the anti-vax crew will use any and all quotes to try to advance their agenda.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235261&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IFZyb16kMvr2JOHbIgXs9BQouM2avb2wpr7ouGGNk0A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235261">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235262" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376637989"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For me Harper will always be the person who refuses to issue a public statement simply stating "I was wrong". All the years that have elapsed since those silly statements, and she still refuses to make that statement, in spite of her awareness of the use of those statements.</p> <p>Just another Jay Gordon, who will sometimes admit "he was mistaken" on RI, but cannot issue a public statement; totally dishonest.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235262&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o-0DVj-foidcmi6DWn_4IYBXIkD0IW-ez4rb6v-N0yU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235262">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235263" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376642888"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, apparently Ethan was in quite a bit of a huff yesterday as he also penned the following:</p> <p>"Thousands of teenage girls given birth control jabs at school, family planning clinics without parental consent or knowledge"...<br /> girls as young as 13 were "secretly injected with birth control vaccines" throughout the UK: school nurses giving about 900 vaccines and clinics about 7400 but most likely these numbers are low because " schools and clinics either do not record the full number of shots they administer, or they refuse to release these figures citing confidentiality laws".</p> <p>This will obviously "encourage children to have more sex" says he. A similar project is coming to NY next.</p> <p>Wouldn't you know it: slaggy, slutty places like the UK and NY *would* want to innoculate concupiscent attitudes so that the girls would fit in socially! ( sarcasm)</p> <p>-btw- I used to counsel teenage girls and they didn't need anyone to "give them ideas" about sex.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235263&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E_pGS2wDFaJVWPd0rQlkGMOxUUoIVexZhBrIJwpbWUU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235263">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235264" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376647590"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Administering HPV vaccines is like giving teens tetanus booster vaccines...they will immediately find a cow pasture and look for a dirty nail to test the vaccine's effectiveness.</p> <p>What is this world coming to!!! Providing birth control to teens and now interfering with G-d's retribution for being a slut!!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235264&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Uov3C5_MI7R5zkpEZJXqc-s4TjFWUpPwlFaUN0jTsP0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235264">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235265" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376649967"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>"Just another Jay Gordon, who will sometimes admit “he was mistaken” on RI, but cannot issue a public statement; totally dishonest."</i></p> <p>You put me in the same category with Diane Harper? One of the most intelligent and courageous vaccine researchers in the world??!!</p> <p>I will take you off probation soon, lilady. And then we'll meet for lunch and discuss this civilly away from the crowd.</p> <p>By the way, I am preparing a public statement, "milady."</p> <p>Jay</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235265&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Efp1rnpAcQrXHVQMfYH8EkvszF8PCwff37MCPsgR2JQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials!)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235265">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235266" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376650652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Gordon, how can you bring yourself to administer vaccines to small children just because their parents insist, when your extensive clinical experience tells you that vaccines can cause instant autism and their minimal benefits are vastly outweighed by their risks? Would you inject bleach into small children just because their parents insisted?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235266&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n2rSRrrtZaGvBouOJrVkzeAx36XJyNkIENNlg3fGAmw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235266">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235267" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376650852"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Intelligent and courageous" is not synonymous with "repeatedly says dumb things and has to backtrack, just like me".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235267&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rMu2MXMsJpFkR3w6YcuQeakdxwRVV3h_EzUIbHDehCM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235267">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235268" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376651172"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@LW</p> <p>Why not? He's already admitted that he won't call out extremists promoting untenable positions because he doesn't want to offend them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235268&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UOAdAXYFB3BrZPOyJAFqB0X2Y_PLW9i36-FeHISW72s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235268">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235269" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376651591"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, minor correction. Dr. Gordon won't <i>name</i> the anti-vaccine extremists who aren't worth listening to because he doesn't want to offend them. It's not even to the level of refuting their nonsense, which would certainly be a step too far for the good Dr. Jay.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235269&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o_zalr6Z_JWIVCOX0_RMxJReHrOdOqoeCZ0hFdi8FfI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235269">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235270" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376652239"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narcissists can bring themselves to do anything that boosts their ego.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235270&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="epZHRcYPfLhJTCUBFG91CqH3c7-wsckr2okl1kqO3wg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris HIckie (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235270">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235271" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376653174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@LW How can you embarrass yourself by intentionally misstating everything I've said and do? You know I give vaccines every day. I don't think they're as safe as they should be. I know that the current vaccine schedule is expedient, very profitable and not science based. Grow up.</p> <p>@Todd W I don't want to start a pissing match with antivax people. I'm just not like you in that regard.</p> <p>@Chris Hickle <i>"Narcissists can bring themselves to do anything that boosts their ego."</i><br /> I couldn't have said that one bit better myself.<br /> But people at RI seem to love you anyway!<br /> (Sorry for the "I know know what you are but what am I" silliness. <b>I'm</b> the one who needs to grow up, LW!!)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235271&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lVFstUnLZuRY1GwnI6AMCtvGm2pYl81cFao-bwd7vJI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials!)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235271">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235272" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376653526"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>"Harper: “I remain a vaccine supporter; and am grateful that GSK and Merck have developed the vaccines.”"</i></p> <p>I've seen more convincing "confessions" in POW and kidnaping movies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235272&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4sSoJquP7jR8PYLPgOjJisdOmNkdanhYzLGb-b9hYlI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials!)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235272">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235273" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376654102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yup. Another zombie meme.</p> <p>In my not so humble opinion, I think the anti-vaxxers constantly run out of any real data, so they have to recycle there vaccine "gotcha's". </p> <p>Any one going to give me the over/under when we should start seeing blogs about how vaccinations cause rhesus monkeys to get autism?</p> <p>And if one of you post a link that someone did that in the last month, just shoot me and put me out of my misery.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235273&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="96LHFnoVe9velKE1tM7EpGYFWCQO4yMHt4EzblQ3CyY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235273">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235274" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376654971"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And the Asymptotal Godwin Award goes to... Dr. Jay Gordon for this audacious comparison of SBM to Nazism without actually mentioning Nazis:</p> <blockquote><p>I’ve seen more convincing “confessions” in POW and kidnaping movies.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235274&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AWjqLGQl_RWTsA8g1O-q4EqPhHSuP17BFlIIrD9frfc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235274">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235275" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376655209"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In all fairness, "POW and kidnapping movies" need not refer to Nazis at all. It could be movies about Korea or Viet Nam or Afghanistan, or Japan during World War II.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235275&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RWalLuVjwUpSos2xUhkB4h8YhrJze4q7FQW7xmDQ5A8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235275">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235276" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376655374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’ve seen more convincing “confessions” in POW and kidnaping movies.</p></blockquote> <p>And so Jay Gordon channels Mike Adams. I hope he's proud of sounding just like the second biggest quack on the Internet. (The first biggest quack is Joe Mercola, although it is true that the two of them appear to be duking it out for the title of The One Quack To Rule Them All.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235276&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Uzfubgd8tvWtjcuK3tEwp57_fihnfqPqO8_bJxbNMPI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235276">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235277" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376655486"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In all fairness, “POW and kidnapping movies” need not refer to Nazis at all. It could be movies about Korea or Viet Nam or Afghanistan, or Japan during World War II.</p></blockquote> <p>Agree 100%, and I have a reputation for being <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/category/history/hitler_zombie/">sensitive for Godwins</a>. The idea that Dr. Jay was pulling a Nazi analogy didn't even occur to me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235277&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IRuo4tmtjaXhmjMKljEtlFUToGKW137oWM27MX8dovk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235277">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235278" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376655764"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>See <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/08/16/penn-teller-deconstruct-the-anti-vaccine/#comment-114998">here</a> where Dr. Gordon, defending a quote from him on Penn &amp; Teller that "children should not be vaccinated", asserts:</p> <blockquote><p>listen to how they obviously clipped off the first part of my sentence. I honestly don’t remember the exact quote but I know that the sense of it was and they reversed it. The sense was how I disagreed with the schedule, timing and so on. For instance, “My point of view is that during the first year of life . . . ”</p> <blockquote><p>” . . . children should not be vaccinated. This is very much at odds with the mainstream medical point of view, which says that there’s no connection between vaccines and autism. I think that that is a flat out lie.”</p></blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Of course, no one believed that the beginning of the sentence is what he claimed, but even if it were, he still asserted that he didn't say no children should be vaccinated at all (except reluctantly when parents insist), but children under one year shouldn't be vaccinated. and besides that, anyone who relies on the work of researchers around the world instead of Dr. Gordon's unrecorded clinical experience is a flat liar.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235278&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="asLyHMBKsaVxpPKqNEi_KYzUuiv5NnRWggQQ-jMDBIw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235278">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235279" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376655787"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Jay, we understand you believe the current vaccine schedule needs to be revised --you stated this explicitly in the "Another zombie antivaccine meme' thread. </p> <p>What I still don't understand is <i>why</i> you belevie this. In teh interest of clearing this up I'll repeat the question i asked you in that thread.</p> <p> From what evidence does your recommendation we revise the childhood immunization schedule derive from? Be specific.<br /> .</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235279&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BiQaxlMoap2a65snrRTBrkawk_xgesAv4F6REBdl9F8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235279">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235280" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376655971"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yes, I would like to see Dr. Jay answer this question as well and add a request for the peer-reviewed scientific literature that leads him to conclude that vaccines cause autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235280&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GJZeM0fgjmj2u_eqYYM9M5c8bcc_HZxrRRxQfZFI3tc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235280">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235281" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376656740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Orac:</p> <p>re " the biggest quack on the internet"-<br /> just the other day, Mercola logged in 526K on facebook while Mikey had a paltry 392K IIRC.</p> <p>But I imagine that number is not the only factor we should consider- Mike writes like a full-tilt loon, that must count for something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235281&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r_o3jxhv9GkdxEkTTh-doqxvS9pvbN1JESfGpYrZIMA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235281">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235282" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376657098"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/08/26/vaccine-exemptions-in-california-threate/#comment-116721">Quoth Dr. Gordon</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>My vaccine schedule? Either none or just a DPT in the first 24 months of life. I think that there’s a greater risk vaccinating males under 24 months and would prefer not to unless there are special circumstances. I use very few other shots except the Varivax as a child approaches ten years because teen and adult pox are nasty and even a little dangerous especially during pregnancy. I give Hep B vaccines to nursing student/moms and dads, other medical moms and dads and higher risk teens and college kids.</p></blockquote> <p>Note that he doesn't vaccinate against rubella, which <em>even I, a non-doctor</em>, know to be dangerous in pregnancy. I haven't found it yet, but I once badgered him into acknowledgingnthat he doesn't vaccinate anybody against rubella. </p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235282&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z7QE8FDNzjz59tHqNaPw_1Cymhj8Hn1Ej0j99f4gb90"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235282">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235283" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376658378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@LW - jeez, not against Rubella? The same disease that resulted in the death and disfigurement of tens of thousands of babies in the 1960's major outbreaks?</p> <p>Holey-Moley Dr. Jay, are you serious?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235283&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j-hVWJ_Vye9O6AJ0rK1APPlV-VxrYQA2V9GiPVj9Hqo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235283">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235284" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376658767"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Lawrence,</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/08/16/penn-teller-deconstruct-the-anti-vaccine/#comment-115864">Yes, he's serious</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>To address LW first: I vaccinate none of my patients against rubella unless they have very unusual travel plans. Rubella no longer poses a threat to American women and children. The CDC declared this over five years ago.</p></blockquote> <p>He emphasized "none", by the way, just in case there was any question in our minds.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235284&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LQT9u5Bt1MybfEuay0sj9qsFhSCOJyPBsqY2cUf_c48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235284">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235285" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376659272"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>To address LW first: I vaccinate none of my patients against rubella unless they have very unusual travel plans. Rubella no longer poses a threat to American women and children.</i></p> <p>Does he even realize that we live in a global world and people from countries with rubella <b>travel to the US</b>? Heck, that was the reason there is measles up in Ventura County-an international traveler brought it there. And of course, Dr. Bob's unvaccinated patient that caused the 2008 southern California measles outbreak went over to Switzerland and got measles there.</p> <p>Rhetorically I must ask: <b>How the f*&amp;!k did either of these dipsticks get a medical diploma?</b></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235285&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="okomtkeJKPlpnzAkOq18AiUNoLCHPDK-7WXmxv0PSgI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris HIckie (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235285">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235286" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376659412"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chris - I can't believe (well, I do believe it, but I am astonished) that a medical professional would be so "care-free" when it comes to something like Rubella that is extremely dangerous to women and children....and that is easily transmittable in today's connected world.</p> <p>Dr. Jay - you do have some fairly significant explaining to do....not to mention answer the damn question as to what evidence has compelled you to go "off the reservation."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235286&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uIZgaCUyBwU1H0de3XjiUPuOOc4CfFAGDQ8ou2PCMVI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235286">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235287" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376659939"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Even if he has reason to believe that the MMR causes autism -- heck, even if, contrary to all competent research, the MMR really did cause autism -- what excuse would there be for not vaccinating against rubella <em>at least</em> "as a child approaches ten years"? Does he think ten-year-olds are going to suddenly develop autism?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235287&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fj7OaWWACnrbymZBCZkeNgdLjZpCXF-v1voxgec9pB8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235287">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235288" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376660834"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>To address LW first: I vaccinate none of my patients against rubella unless they have very unusual travel plans. Rubella no longer poses a threat to American women and children. The CDC declared this over five years ago.</p></blockquote> <p>Are all of you aware that the only way he can pull this off is to not vaccinate with MMR at all either? The triple jab is the only way to administer rubella in the U.S.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235288&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7xg3rWtZgcX6ACDsn8v3g2E2fPyqw07CBbiKT3FYarY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235288">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235289" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376660835"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>...and add a request for the peer-reviewed scientific literature that leads him to conclude that vaccines cause autism</p></blockquote> <p>And again I suggest we make it as easy as possible for Dr. Jay to respond, by simply asking him to identify what in his opinion is the <i>single</i> most compelling piece of scientific evidence supporting the existence of a causal link between routine immunization and the development of autism spectrum disorders.</p> <p>Just <i>one</i> solid piece of credible scientific evidence--that's all I'm asking for (yet somehow no one ever seems able to find it).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235289&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7xYLUToHEx_Qy_Wvn_nLyE45HrklCdr_v0L_ZuFzR7U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235289">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235290" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376661464"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Science Mom, I'm aware. That's why I wonder what conceivable excuse he has for denying the MMR (and therefore the only available protection against rubella) to children at least ten years old.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235290&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XWGZRNH524FbYxU4bhFarctFuvsE0A456XRpAqIdNrE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235290">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235291" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376662389"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Krebiozen <i>"And the Asymptotal Godwin Award goes to . . ."</i></p> <p>And that, ladies and gentleman, is why I come here. A concept that clever--even though you meant to say "asymptotic"--is worth the price of admission.</p> <p>But, if Orac's Godwin Radar wasn't tickled, it doesn't count as a Godwin!</p> <p>And, by the way, LW and others, as much as I dislike the MMR--a triple live virus vaccine taken that casually?!I--I willingly give it over age three years or so after a long informed consent discussion.</p> <p>@Hickie Calm down, doctor. Join the AAP and change things from within. Why would they listen to someone too cheap to pay his dues? Be honest, Dr. H.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235291&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LJGAo7yEYwoHsGCwfoEbhdc0_An98-fyQZKOJ8FpnP4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials!)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235291">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235292" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376662731"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>And, by the way, LW and others, as much as I dislike the MMR–a triple live virus vaccine taken that casually?!I–I willingly give it over age three years or so after a long informed consent discussion.</p></blockquote> <p>I would be enthralled to see an explanation squaring the statement above with</p> <blockquote><p>To address LW first: I vaccinate none [emphasis added by Dr. Gordon] of my patients against rubella unless they have very unusual travel plans.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235292&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dRH8FSW-2BY4xs3Xyq9Kt337f01vAyyGUnhcXIpZEQ0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235292">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235293" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376664229"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That Penn &amp; Teller post is a treasure trove that I had forgotten about. For instance, it features Dr. Gordon explaining how willingly he gives the MMR.</p> <p>Chris asked (comment #235),</p> <blockquote><p>Does this mean you have never used the MMR vaccine in your office? Since Merck no longer provides single vaccines, do you also deny children protection from measles and mumps?</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/08/16/penn-teller-deconstruct-the-anti-vaccine/#comment-115896">Dr. Gordon replies,</a></p> <blockquote><p>@Chris Actually, there have been children in my office who received the MMR. Their special circumstances or their parents very strong wishes easily superseded my wish to withhold the shot. I’d guess this happens once or twice/year.</p></blockquote> <p>Yep, willingly. Once or twice a year, even. </p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235293&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="v6lP7f2eR5AmUlPA__adh3MEWf7jvFokIC0P6tIdTRM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235293">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235294" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376664625"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Jay @ # 13</p> <p>"Just another Jay Gordon, who will sometimes admit “he was mistaken” on RI, but cannot issue a public statement; totally dishonest."</p> <p>and...</p> <p>"You put me in the same category with Diane Harper? One of the most intelligent and courageous vaccine researchers in the world??!!"</p> <p>No Jay, you're in a "category" all by yourself. Diane Harper was not part of the HPV vaccine development team (tsk, tsk, you should have read Orac's post); she was part of the team that tested the vaccine in field trials. And, Harper only messed up with her statements about the HPV vaccine; you, OTH, have made, and continue to make, ridiculous...not based in science...statements about every infant, childhood and adolescent vaccine that is recommended by the WHO, the CDC and the AAP. </p> <p>"I will take you off probation soon, lilady. And then we’ll meet for lunch and discuss this civilly away from the crowd."</p> <p>What hubris! You claim you put me "on probation" on Orac's blog? You're just p!ssed off that I have been linking to your statements on your websites about vaccine, for the past two years. Remember Jay..."Prevnar vaccine is too new for me to recommend". Remember Jay...I called you out on your lies a few months ago, when you claimed you were vaccinating immune suppressed kids with varicella vaccine, under a "compassionate use protocol" during the mid 1970s through the 1980s'? Remember Jay...I found your "Links" section which linked to whale.to for information on each of the childhood vaccines? Really Jay, you've got your colossal nerve to put me "on probation" on Orac's blog, and I consider it a badge of honor that you think I am uncivil and threatening.</p> <p>"By the way, I am preparing a public statement, “milady.”</p> <p>I'll be waiting for that public statement and I'll convince Orac to devote an entire post to your public statement, "m'lord".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235294&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VpXeshcEqTGKzYs-PqaPlVlMizPmY6NQXon9nvK6Pvg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235294">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235295" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376666081"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>@Hickie Calm down, doctor. Join the AAP and change things from within. Why would they listen to someone too cheap to pay his dues? Be honest, Dr. H.</i></p> <p>Some more pediatricians calling you out Dr. Gordon? You know whom to blame.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235295&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VDEvxnIBxV4I36JGK0tWQAplP_papBZVs37mXOcGcqQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris HIckie (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235295">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235296" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376669672"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"@Chris Actually, there have been children in my office who received the MMR. Their special circumstances or their parents very strong wishes easily superseded my wish to withhold the shot. I’d guess this happens once or twice/year."</p> <p>and</p> <p>"And, by the way, LW and others, as much as I dislike the MMR–a triple live virus vaccine taken that casually?!I–I willingly give it over age three years or so after a long informed consent discussion."</p> <p>You have no business being a pediatrician. </p> <p>NONE.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235296&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wLqmb3mYw1J2Vsyy79ran50OoGHlb2nJaABMMBavNwg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Darwy (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235296">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235297" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376670752"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>And, by the way, LW and others, as much as I dislike the MMR–a triple live virus vaccine taken that casually?!I–I willingly give it over age three years or so after a long informed consent discussion.</p></blockquote> <p>So which is it Jay? You don't give rubella ever or you give MMR oh so reluctantly to parents whose instincts have obviously failed them? Your statements are rather inconsistent.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235297&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2KUy79Cy0tRhgv_zlF96akO1cevvWPNhhZA6x1GeY1s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235297">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235298" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376674525"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>How can you embarrass yourself by intentionally misstating everything I’ve said and do?</p></blockquote> <p>I'll just note the irony of this particular bit of pearl-clutching coming from Jay mere days after he said to Orac, in effect, 'You have explained at length why you are unhappy that the cases of two children compensated by the VICP for table injuries are now being falsely represented to the world as compensation for autism - but <i>I</i> know what you <i>really mean</i> is "No compensation for vaccine injuries ever, no matter what the circumstances!"' So Jay is at the very least asserting <i>his own right</i> to misstate others' views... wonder why he's clutching his pearls at the thought that someone might misinterpret his own words and actions.*</p> <p>* Of course, as we saw just a month ago in the thread where Jay both claimed his attempt to "out" elburto was justified by her "stalking" of him and then falsely told her "I never said you were stalking me; you made that up," what Jay means by "misstating everything I've said and do" might well be "remembering very accurately what I've said and done at a time when that's inconvenient for me."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235298&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1zWQZT7XBYdN_du9Zij3a9fe5VLG9kYrEXYTemSZ17M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Antaeus Feldspar (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235298">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235299" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376675509"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't know about any of you, but I don't take a "casual" approach to vaccines. My approach has, is, and will always be one based on reality. I'm not cavalier about it. I'm not proud. I'm not even happy that we have to vaccinate. If I had it my way, we would have erradicated all vaccine-preventable diseases by now.</p> <p>This whole business of accusing someone who uses evidence, data, and, you know, reality to prevent diseases (instead of magic like homeopaths and faith healers), it's all getting very boring. Time and time again, people like Dr. Jay and "Sid Offit" and JB Handley, and others launch accusations that we're in a "cult" or that we "worship" vaccines. They say that we're obsessed or won't listen to reason. Personally, I worship intangibles, untestables.</p> <p>With vaccines (and anything based on science), I look at the evidence and say, "Hey, it effin' works." Just like when I look at the sky and see it blue or put a liter of water at sea level and see that it weighs one kilo, boils at 212ºF and freezes at 0ºC.</p> <p>In other words, vaccines work, don't cause autism, and will always save more lives than you can possibly imagine. Get over it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235299&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hMT_CiCsRQ1Mm873R4dgxg7KL5nels2E8jkGYF1cR5A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235299">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235300" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376681801"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Jay Gordon</p> <blockquote><p>@Todd W I don’t want to start a pissing match with antivax people. I’m just not like you in that regard.</p></blockquote> <p>No, I don't think that's it, Jay. Rather, I don't think that there actually <i>is</i> anyone on the anti-vaccine side that you really think is not worth listening to. That or you lack the conviction to actually put things right. You said, quite clearly, you'd rather not offend them than to even state the names of those you think aren't worth listening to. How is that serving anyone that respects (for some strange reason) your opinion?</p> <p>Also, as Dr. Gorski mentioned on that thread over at SBM, here's a recent quote from Jay about the MMR:</p> <blockquote><p>Joel Shapiro, who has a four-month-old daughter, says he’s decided not to give his daughter the MMR vaccination until she turns four.</p> <p>His pediatrician, Dr. Jay Gordon, agrees with his decision.</p> <p>“I’m not just a proponent of letting parents choose. I’m a proponent of revising the current vaccine schedule. I think that we give too many vaccines to children too early in life. I think that we group vaccines together without being 100 percent certain of the safety of those groups, those combinations,” the doctor said.</p></blockquote> <p>And remember folks. The diseases we vaccinate against aren't a threat to kids in the U.S. I mean, the CDC said they were eradicated. They can't even travel in; it's only if you travel out of the U.S. that there's a risk. And those outbreaks you hear about in areas of low vaccination rates in the U.S.? Well, for Jay, that's just "statistical porn". Remember saying that Jay?</p> <p>BTW, Jay, I find your tone in this thread very uncivil. Rough week?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235300&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9KhuG-W24Twabzie2AsFfFFFcs-abky1B2NQBUWWNDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235300">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235301" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376686312"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Jay, did you know that a pregnant woman getting rubella actually increases the child's chances of getting autism?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235301&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DZ0P9EwJOckfX8DyONvLvzfF9laXspEr_lPji80bumI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Khani (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235301">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235302" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376688036"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Jay is aware of the thousands of cases of Congenital Rubella Syndrome that were reported in the United States before a rubella vaccine was developed and licensed.</p> <p>Apparently Dr. Jay forgot his medical school education, because he seems blissfully unaware that CRS is still being reported in the United States. Three cases were reported during 2012, but then the mothers of the babies born afflicted with CRS, were not the type of women that Jay's young patients or their pregnant mommies would ever encounter in real life.</p> <p>Read here the mothers' stories of no recollection of a serious illness during their pregnancies That's the nature of the disease...inapparent or mild for pregnant women...but devastating for the fetus she is carrying.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6212a3.htm">http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6212a3.htm</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235302&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OV98C8gAzqnd6Inz4Jn0_KzTxCeNDtUA7iAS1UXSMfk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235302">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235303" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376694546"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good link, lilady, especially the last paragraph:</p> <p><i>As long as rubella remains endemic in any area of the world, imported CRS will continue to be a public health concern in the United States. Residents or foreign visitors entering the United States from rubella-endemic areas can introduce the virus. In addition, infants born with CRS can shed infectious virus for several months; therefore, care must be taken to avoid contact with others who are susceptible to rubella (e.g., unvaccinated infants in day-care settings) (7). Although levels of vaccination with rubella-containing vaccine are high in the United States, a small proportion of persons are not vaccinated for medical or personal reasons (8). Those who are not vaccinated against rubella virus can become infected if exposed. If a pregnant woman is infected with rubella virus, the fetus also can become infected. Fetal infection with rubella virus, especially early during pregnancy, often leads to CRS. The risk for CRS in the unborn child of a mother with rubella infection might be as high as 90% for infections occurring through week 10 of pregnancy (9). Clusters of unvaccinated persons are at high risk for an outbreak, as in the Netherlands and Canada in 2009 (10). Health-care providers and public health workers should remain vigilant for imported cases of CRS.</i></p> <p>Gordon (and Sears) poo poo infections like rubella and polio because in their insular, celebrity, cash-kissing world, those diseases are not in their cosmopolitan thinking-mommy upper class neighborhoods--they're in those far away places like Nigeria, Sudan and Tanzania. But people from there come here and I'm sure some of their families travel over there. All these diseases are just a plane flight away (<a href="http://shotofprevention.com/2011/05/13/diseases-are-often-just-a-plane-ride-away/">http://shotofprevention.com/2011/05/13/diseases-are-often-just-a-plane-…</a>), and if vaccine rates keep dropping in the US, we won't even need the plane rides.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235303&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3uBRttk3uDt1Kx3w7VyFx9iLY1gyMKuiQZDaqKHec1M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235303">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235304" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376695664"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Test Post.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235304&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9iOqL7_ZUsKMR89HZCENYi3RABEVMt4AG4Xp7ysY4Yg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235304">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235305" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376696996"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Something weird just happened to my computer. It froze and I had to turn it off and restart it again...twice. Then Microsoft had to do a 3-stage Disk check (about 35 minutes...mainly eliminating phishing). So I finally get back on to RI where all of Orac's posts are up...but the "Recent Insolence Returned" comments were old...real old...dating back to the beginning of August.</p> <p>I wanted to post at Dr. Chris, but I had to type in my 'nym and type in my email address...hence the "Test Post" above. After the "Test Post" went through I hit my RI Bookmark and now the RI page is functioning.</p> <p>@ Dr. Chris: You make a very valid point about deliberately unvaccinated kids (from Dr. Jay's type of boutique practice), traveling to areas of the world where Rubella may be endemic. I wonder how parents in his practice would feel if their child contracted rubella during such a trip, and infected a non-immunized woman in her early stages of pregnancy?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235305&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1mArdvi2dxXvy1HRbA3DI1LbXJuUR4LE8dlSXse7tZQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235305">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235306" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376706250"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Lilady</p> <p>Honestly, I don't think they'd care. I suspect most of Dr Jay's parents are the self-absorbed type (birds of a feather, and all that) who wouldn't see the problem with their special snowflake gifting others with 'natural immunity'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235306&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KPl_GLTD2F5pMBbiDzQ4ty7PsoCmrqmxIOD9VmWUtZg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Darwy (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235306">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235307" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376711161"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@lilady:</p> <blockquote><p>Dr. Jay is aware of the thousands of cases of Congenital Rubella Syndrome that were reported in the United States before a rubella vaccine was developed and licensed.</p></blockquote> <p>[citation needed]</p> <p>No, really, he's so blasé about rubella that I really do wonder if he knows about those cases.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235307&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PbwbX7o9mWc-Cz-J4nJIQWNSJ_eR2a0-Zry-x91AGDk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 16 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235307">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235308" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376723606"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>No, really, he’s so blasé about rubella that I really do wonder if he knows about those cases.</i></p> <p>How can a busy, cutting edge guy like Goron have time to worry about rubella when he's found his true calling in <b>preventing</b> autism through healthy sperm initiatives?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235308&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OiGKCqC0zD26eIksC6NwmqVPluP5XIce4pBBiUad9B4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235308">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235309" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376730850"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ AoA, Dan is bashing Emily Willingham and abusing the sacred word of the sainted Bob.</p> <p>-btw- The Forbes pieces' subtly self-scrolling comments evade my attempts to click on pages 2 or above. Who designed that?</p> <p>@lilady:<br /> Isn't Microsoft lovely?<br /> However it's made money for my family so I can't scoff too much. AND I use it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235309&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CreS37PVduIJYdxen3_pCEBgpULUttjDQwSXGwP2iBY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235309">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235310" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376732263"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jay,</p> <blockquote><p>And that, ladies and gentleman, is why I come here. A concept that clever–even though you meant to say “asymptotic”–is worth the price of admission.</p></blockquote> <p>I didn't mean to say 'asymptotic', I know 'asymptotal' is a made-up word; it was a joke that I knew my fellow science-literate commenters here would understand. Maybe I should point out that there is no Asymptotal Godwin Award, that was a joke too. </p> <p>For some reason I'm reminded of Bill Hicks describing his experience sitting in a diner reading a book over a cup of coffee in some FSM-forsaken part of the US. One one of the locals looked at him and said to his companions, "Looks like we got ourselves a reader."</p> <p>Jay, I don't suppose you care, but personally I find your continual passive-aggressive nastiness, your faux outrage at the bile it sometimes provokes, your lectures about civilized discourse and your appallingly cavalier attitude towards your patients' health repugnant. I think it betrays something unpleasant about your personality. That's not a joke, it's just my opinion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235310&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ksKa_qR7hBSuKReuS7v7uWkzGFWqNAS8X5oy6pLXmcA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235310">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235311" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376732543"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Chris Hickey:</p> <p>Oooh, that was mean: you fit right in amongst the RI minions.</p> <p>-btw- where's Narad?<br /> We know where Alain is.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235311&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kVVKU5t2QjEbQ9gKzxa_zAHbPxzSK-HNrR88XuRVViA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235311">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235312" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376733801"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Krebiozen:</p> <p>YOU will never be invited for lunch by Dr Jay; neither will I nor will Chris H.<br /> That's a shame because we're fun!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235312&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="F0x8av2a5j8bafCYovT2hrUGR8Q4ZWaN2kdBa8yGswA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235312">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235313" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376738770"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> I vaccinate none of my patients against rubella unless they have very unusual travel plans</i></p> <p>The mumps outbreak in Livingston County, Illinois, two years ago was caused by someone returning from a mission trip to Haiti. IDPH is currently monitoring two measles cases who brought it back from Poland.</p> <p>But that would never happen in California, where people don't routinely travel out of state or out of country, would it...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235313&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9vDrj-MctLwuf9Org6UPTwKjTzvK_N4mwQT46emyrxI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235313">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235314" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376740140"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>July 20, 2013</p> <blockquote><p> Two visitors from Europe are suspected of falling ill with measles in Ventura County, prompting public health officials to remind the public to get vaccinated. </p></blockquote> <p>The news articles didn't say where in Ventura County the tourists traveled, but that's only about 35 miles north of Dr. Jay's office.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235314&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XPb9GPu71BFfC3FUij8bYTetWVIyiN16cwcpTUrEOWk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Liz Ditz (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235314">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235315" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376741494"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wait, is this "I still have articles praising homeopathy on my site" Dr. Jay?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235315&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l6LMDOLyDinSDEV2j1fkmzbXvtZzRA5XDvfli-UWFmU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235315">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235316" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376746153"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I believe Dan Olmsted's snide remarks about Emily Willingham is the third (or fourth) hit piece that they have done on Emily's blog at Forbes. </p> <p>Stone has also viciously attack Dorit Reese, who is a professor of law and who rebutted Mary Holland and her EBCALA study on the Harvard Law Review. Chris and I and several others managed to get comments posted at Holland and at Reiss. Unfortunately, the comments sections on those two articles was shut down...because of vile comments being posted (my assumption is those comments came from AoA trolls).</p> <p>Denice, If you want to see the stream of comments on Emily's blog, you have to go to the first comment and click on "Expand All Comments". Linda Tock and I have been busy for the past 3 days commenting and there are now 31 pages of comments. I was up commenting until 4 AM this morning commenting.</p> <p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/08/09/court-rulings-dont-confirm-autism-vaccine-link/">http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/08/09/court-rulings-do…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235316&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="arc_RvsVFzmM4TFFYi-nRF3faYya1LhlhG_TVahegDA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235316">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235317" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376746944"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>too many vaccines to children too early in life.</i></p> <p>Too early for *what*? Now that Dr Jay has resiled from blaming vaccines for autism (opting for the "environmental toxins / unhealthy sperm / impurity of essence" theory), what <b>are</b> the ill-effects of vaccinations for justifying his patients' free-floating anxieties about them?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235317&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0h1yYV244O5tmJFw1N-dAs59rZrcFh1OxO2mbQJOhKY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235317">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235318" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376747480"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just a thought: How many boutique practices take care of over 4000 children?</p> <p>Speak about what you know. Thanks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235318&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="My24tDwXl3MrsMnJtGSg4OuI7gnUJulIW6asRNHll98"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235318">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235319" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376749652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@LW "squaring" People who read, listen and think change their minds. Those with closed minds will never understand why I do things differently than I did a year or two or ten ago. </p> <p>@lilady I repeat, narrow-minded inflexible people can't understand those of us who can change. Pity.</p> <p>@DrHickie !!!!!</p> <p>@Science Mom I give many more MMR vaccines than I used to. I worry about the timing of this vaccine and theoretical concerns about live virus vaccines but I also understand the benefits of immunity to rubella for women of child-bearing age. My statements are inconsistent because I have changed some of my ideas and practices and will continue to do so. Part of that comes from being here, by the way.</p> <p>@Antaeus You're usually better than this. That's all. Much better, more logical and more convincing.</p> <p>@Ren I don't think you're in a cult or a vaccine worshipper. You're a responsible, experienced, highly-educated expert. We disagree at times but, as you well know, I respect your opinions and arguments. Please, Ren, don't join the worst of the crowd here.</p> <p>@Todd W Yes, very rough week. Thank you for noticing and asking. There are lots of anti-vax writers not worth reading. I don't read them. I just don't need them and you thoroughly pissed off at me for calling them out. What on earth would be the point of that?? And, yes, a lot of the changes I've made are a result of my contemplating the amount of travel my patients do. I give more vaccines as a result of that.</p> <p>@Khani Yes, thanks.</p> <p>@lilady You're reaching new lows. You cite cases in three mothers from Tanzania, Sudan and Nigeria. You are so angry at me that it's really clouding your judgment to contribute to this conversation. That probation is not lifted.</p> <p>@Dr.Hickie I'm going to talk with you doc to doc for a minute. Do you really believe I make more money by selling <i>fewer</i> vaccines? Your math is bad. And, yes, Africa is a long way from here.<br /> And the "plane ride away" cliche' has to merit a made-up piece of opprobrium like Godwin does. OK?<br /> And please don't say poo poo here.</p> <p>@lilady Someone traveling to Africa has different risk factors. Not hard to figure out.</p> <p>@Darwy Post about what you know. You know nothing about the 4000 children for whom my office cares. Nothing at all. </p> <p>@LW It is my job to know about vaccination and outbreaks worldwide.</p> <p>@Krebiozen You're entitled to your opinion. Actually, I'm a very nice guy. I really thought your use of the concept of Godwin combined with "asymptote" was just great.</p> <p>@Denice Where's Alain? I would have lunch with you.</p> <p>@Shay Occurrences like that, conversations with Ren and others and just plain maturity have changed my thoughts and practices.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235319&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FpQkSsteCsbR4PGfWsDj41U8q7K2NqMbjy8WIgSC03M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235319">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235320" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376752230"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Obviously Dr. Gordon, your "boutique practice" cares for over 4,000 children.</p> <p>How many pediatricians in California were against the passage of California Assembly Bill 2109, introduced in the Assembly by Dr. Richard Pan, a pediatrician, that would require a parent to consult a health care provider for reliable information about childhood vaccines, before they "opt out" of vaccines, with a "Personal Belief Exemption"?</p> <p>How many pediatricians in California debated Dr. Pan during a radio program? I heard that broadcast when you had it on your website. IMHO, Dr. Pan made mincemeat out of your arguments to defeat AB 2109.</p> <p>Do you deny, that you had a statement on your website, that you had consulted your attorney to get advice on avoiding these consultations with the parents who take their kids to your boutique practice?</p> <p>Are you still charging parents at the time of their appointments, payment in full for your services...thus making them to submit bills for reimbursement?</p> <p>Weeks ago, I commented directly at you, that you are listed as a "vaccine friendly" pediatrician on Dr. Bob Sears website; I still see your name and your contact details on Sears' website:</p> <p><a href="http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/find-vaccine-friendly-doctor-near-you">http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/find-vaccine-friendly-doctor-…</a></p> <p>"Please Note! The doctors listed here want to do their best to provide you with vaccine advice and alternative schedules. In order to best serve you, please do NOT call their offices and use their staff's valuable time and energy asking numerous questions over the phone. This takes them away from caring for patients in the office and makes it more difficult for them to provide care for YOU when you are in their office. Some doctors have asked that I remove them from this listing because they have been inundated with phone calls from parents who want to spend a long time on the phone seeking advice and asking numerous questions over the phone instead of simply waiting for their appointment. I know that you all are looking for a doctor to serve you, but this type of situation actually does a disservice to this whole endeavor. So, I ask that you PLEASE simply call the doctor near you, perhaps ask one or two simple questions about why you want an appointment, and then make an appointment and save all your vaccine questions for your face-to-face appointment. Please respect the doctor's staff's time and patients by following these guidelines so the Vaccine Friendly Doctor's List can continue to grow. </p> <p>Thanks!<br /> Dr. Bob"</p> <p>Aren't you proud that you have your own entry on this blog? Here, for posterity are your activities and your comments throughout the years about vaccines:</p> <p><a href="http://www.skepdic.com/gordonjay.html">http://www.skepdic.com/gordonjay.html</a></p> <p>Am I still "on probation" on Orac's blog, Dr. Jay? Or, are you going to outright ban me from posting on Respectful Insolence?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235320&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BZ1CzI925jBDHRj-K1Ra8uDXjc53oh82q_v_q_ZZ7rs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235320">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235321" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376755610"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jay,</p> <blockquote><p>Actually, I’m a very nice guy. </p></blockquote> <p>I'm quite sure you are an extremely charming, charismatic individual, with a bedside manner that other physicians can only envy. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing what you do and wouldn't be so successful in the particular medical you have chosen to inhabit. </p> <p>However, doing a convincing imitation of a nice guy isn't the same as being a nice guy. I don't believe you would bother hanging out here if you weren't aware of that, at some level anyway. </p> <blockquote><p> I really thought your use of the concept of Godwin combined with “asymptote” was just great.</p></blockquote> <p>In this case I'll adjust my negative opinion of you down a notch. I thought you were being sarcastic. I have a suspicion you still are, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.</p> <p>By the way, I'm beginning to suspect that Greg is your alter ego. Is he?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235321&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GHET_uXA5XwCC2WZ1gwgDk0lgvvGkqsPuGglvjhX3JU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235321">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235322" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376755945"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"particular medical <b>niche</b> you have chosen to inhabit."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235322&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GzcyXr44rXhVhdZAIDx-ZTkX0ek7OHjTjsJZTZBHgyw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235322">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235323" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376756532"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> Dr Jay said, "Darwy Post about what you know. You know nothing about the 4000 children for whom my office cares. Nothing at all." </i></p> <p>Well, I know <b> I </b> prefer <i> quality healthcare </i> over quantity health care....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235323&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cuKP_lF_jUoPrTIYLfOCM11YlFkBIUUiZHwrERiV-kc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Darwy (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235323">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235324" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376757135"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#67<br /> "Do you really believe I make more money by selling fewer vaccines? Your math is bad."</p> <p>The only way this would work would be if you were catering to parents who had antivaccine leanings who would otherwise seek care elsewhere. People do indeed believe you do this, so that charge does seem to make sense.</p> <p>"Someone traveling to Africa has different risk factors. Not hard to figure out."</p> <p>What about the rest of us in America when they come back? Measles virus can last 12 hours on a surface...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235324&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="It66QFm_oiGt2kL6I21b67hDYxPkcgla-adR4sGD1dM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Khani (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235324">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235325" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376757342"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Firstly, @Krebiozen There was NO sarcasm there at all. I thought it was great. That's one of the main problems I have here: I wonder why people as smart as the posters here keep up the same drumbeat and put all who question any aspect of conventional medical care, especially vaccines, in the same small category. Do that if you must, but understand that I loved the image you created of my approaching Godwin. It was unintentional on my part but undoubtedly I deserved your comment.</p> <p>I could not be successful "imitating" a nice guy for decades. I take care of my patients very well. My neighborhood and my specialty do not lend themselves to whimsical or non-evidenced base medical care. We disagree but do not assume that I don't take great care of kids.</p> <p>Greg? No, I post here and anywhere under my own name. No pseudonyms or anonymous posting. </p> <p>@lilady I just read your comments at Forbes. You were unkind to the point of completely unacceptable behavior. Just as one human being interacting with another, your exchanges with the parents of those special needs children deserves reprimand from all who read it. Your heart is filled with hatred for those parents. Why, lilady, why?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235325&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2zm7YoMGlS32Uy3BiM8xpvqUSYajosJa2Z1PCY-TsIE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Jay Gordon (no initials)">Jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235325">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235326" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376757838"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>@Denice Where’s Alain? I would have lunch with you.</i></p> <p>I'm here....been on hiatus due to a ruptured appendix which required surgery (and yes, I have a nice big vertical cut of about 5 inch around the navel 'cause it was too messy in there among other small cuts).</p> <p>I can't take a plane because of my sutured rectus abdominus (not sure, my anatomy book is off little help) which would rip apart the sutured point on liftoff due to the pressure on the stomach so you both will have to come here if you want to breakfast with me. There's a nice Cora restaurant 5 minutes from here :)</p> <p>Alain</p> <p>p.s. maximum weight I can lift with both hand is 10 lbs so that preclude even doing the grocery. Matter of fact, I don't know if I can lift some of my kitchen appliances or the dirty laundry.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235326&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5tPw0MqMS_xwoNFpsHkElmKMhKhxIHFtR1q7_uTR1F8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235326">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235327" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376759348"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Alain, sorry to hear. Heal quickly!</p> <p>Jay</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235327&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s2eLPFf_7MgWaX219pjA-QkO4C41ffUGfY50DQCwNQI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="jay Gordon (no initials)">jay Gordon (no… (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235327">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235328" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376759910"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jay,</p> <p>6 weeks off...</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235328&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kNbRfevHdhX2JyFpnwY3Z7UzqdQM-NWytuFP0gA8JrI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235328">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235329" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376760764"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Selective ignoring things you don't like for the win, Jay?</p> <p>Here, let me try again.</p> <p><b><i>Why are there still articles, written by you, endorsing homeopathy on your site?</i></b></p> <p>And what the hell is going on with the "I'm not elitist, I have 4000 patients" claptrap, Jay? You've found 4000 snowflake children with parents that can afford you, so now you are a man of the people?</p> <p>Does this make sense to you?</p> <p>Who do you think you are trying to fool here?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235329&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sFDR3Q6NRhgOYok-C9n5vH4fqn5HWeVXPguyL0CWL58"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235329">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235330" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376762858"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Jay: You are welcome to post on any of the science blogs I post on.</p> <p>Your statement about my posts on Emily Willingham's blog are nasty, untruthful and wrong.</p> <p>"@lilady I just read your comments at Forbes. You were unkind to the point of completely unacceptable behavior. Just as one human being interacting with another, your exchanges with the parents of those special needs children deserves reprimand from all who read it. Your heart is filled with hatred for those parents. Why, lilady, why?"</p> <p>Shall we look at those parents, Jay?</p> <p>-CIA (Cynthia) Parker: Who is a known pathological liar, who posts about her child's encephalopathy. She never took her infant to a physician for an evaluation of what she describes as an "encephalitic cry" (colic), and she, refuses to acknowledge the link I have provided to her, multiple times, to the IDSA Pediatric Treatment Guidelines for Encephalitis. She, a lawyer, has libeled me in the past, and libeled me on Willingham's blog, accusing me of being on the payroll to post my comments.</p> <p>-The lady who lives in Mississippi, who cannot, or will not, get her "story" straight about her child's seizures, following a vaccine. Her child has had continuous EEG tracings several times in a neuro unit, with nary a sign of seizure activity. Her child has had multiple EEG tests, just after "episodes" she reported as "seizures", yet during these post-ictal EEG tracings, her child's EEGs are "normal". Her doctors have repeatedly told her that her child does not have epileptic episodes. She also claims her autistic child attends a school program in Mississippi 2X/weekly and is not fully immunized. She claims the local school board in Mississippi has violated Mississippi State Education by permitting her unimmunized child in school. Her child DOES NOT HAVE A MEDICAL CONTRAINDICATION, because no doctor will provide an excuse for her. She claims she cannot afford the $ 350 filling fee to institute a claim for vaccine damages (autism) in the Vaccine Court...and I informed her that the filing fee is waived for indigent parents.</p> <p>-prince adam: Accused me of deliberately omitting "Traumatic Brain Injury" related to vaccine-induced autism. I provided him with the medical dictionary definition of TBI, which as you know well know, has nothing to do with vaccines or autism. He also threatened me with "blood revenge". Nice guy.</p> <p>-Alain Couvier a.k.a. "ASD Researcher", who is a Spammer, who has targeted Willingham and other science bloggers with his walls of words, his quote mining tactics, his off-topic, thread-derailing comments...and who is a troll.</p> <p>Yeah Jay, I'm a mean-spirited evil bitch who despises parents who have special needs children (self-loathing, perhaps?), who is "on the payroll" of teh ebil *Big Pharma*, who is deserving of CIA Parker's libelous statements and who is deserving of blood revenge.</p> <p>Unlike you Jay, I have no need to pander to crank bloggers, D.-List celebs and credulous parents. Unlike you Jay, I don't make sh!t up about vaccines and unlike you, I despise parents who refer to their children as "vaccine-damaged", "train wrecks" and afflicted with "iatrogenic autism caused by vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235330&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jueXEoHRT8CdBJuddKHjVx2RwNQCbxW43Ds8T276QnE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235330">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235331" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376763883"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Jay,<br /> I can attest that the AoA crew mentioned by lilady are a nasty bunch. I posted a few times at AoA and during an episode where I explained the development of a newborn brain (especially, the reptilian part of the brain), I witnessed a storm going after me forcing me in a corner and the comment thread was shutdown quickly after that.</p> <p>There's pretty good chance that lilady know well who she has to face off in the comments thread that the dachelbot spam to. As for myself, I have a fireproof suit but I don't wear it that often because it's draining me too much.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235331&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nDCK4WOq__CX5f_wA-Vv74Pym6-Tqi8tZ-0f9uX9H-E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235331">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235332" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376764754"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I know that the current vaccine schedule is expedient, very profitable and not science based.'</p> <p>This, and the other comments you've made, show that you are able to lie with the ease of those who are well practiced. I would ask how you live with yourself, but I'm assuming your money takes the place of your conscience.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235332&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6c9eQKMB_wWsufdV2P4nBo03VEj4AVxVTsNaFehUtSA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dean (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235332">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235333" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376767784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jay: " I wonder why people as smart as the posters here keep up the same drumbeat and put all who question any aspect of conventional medical care"</p> <p>My, what a tiresome trope.</p> <p>It is perfectly acceptable to question an aspect of "conventional" medical care (Numerous articles at RI have done this, and it's the process by which "conventional" medical care evolves in response to new and better evidence). People who continually spout drivel and refuse to consider overwhelming evidence refuting their position, are not Brave Mavericks Challenging The Conventional Paradigm, they're idiots who should not be surprised that they generate a negative response.</p> <p>And if the "drumbeat" fills you with such ennui, Jay, why not find something else to do? A guy who spends so much time on a single office visit with parents who have to doggedly convince him of the need for an MMR shot, should take a break now and then. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235333&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J29HsJCK87C4fioEmjcAB7Me20MXRCZ97zCtjdDWZbk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235333">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235334" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376771313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ dean &amp; Dangerous Bacon: Just watch your backs, guys. Jay is apt to take the bull by the balls and put you on "double secret probation".</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hostgKc7qV4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hostgKc7qV4</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235334&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AgekvSx4Qm0jgutIBDsK4XQ2Dn7Pl3KIGa-jM3gpbGU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235334">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235335" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376775688"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, what do you know, I get invited to lunch ( and then breakfast!)</p> <p>Perhaps RI has had an effect on Dr Jay.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235335&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zOHXRvH6pcuUt6-8sYNhxyF9KGv1LJUBRqDSG064BHc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235335">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235336" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376777953"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If Jay was a Newfie would he be from Dildo or from Witless Bay?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235336&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RL74n5QOwqdHvlhYCQ5QY4o-5DFANA2fZnYaQmb63DI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Militant Agnostic (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235336">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235337" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376778872"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>@Dr.Hickie I’m going to talk with you doc to doc for a minute. Do you really believe I make more money by selling fewer vaccines? Your math is bad. And, yes, Africa is a long way from here.</i>.</p> <p>Yes, I am sure you do, at least per shot (now if you only give like 3 vaccine injections a year, then sure, I do gross more than you since I spend &gt; $250k on vaccines last year). Since you don't take insurance, you can bill and collect whatever you want from your patients. Since I am contracted with insurance companies for 98-99% of my patients, I can still bill whatever I feel, but the insurance company will pay me <i>whatever they want</i>, which is typically 10% above vaccine cost. So, for example, on a $130 PCV13 vaccine, I get around, on average, $143.00. That's not much (Walmart has a better margin on their merchandise), and you, I am certain, bill more than 10% above your vaccine acquisition costs to your paying out of pocket families. Another trick I'll bet you do is, especially since you are mister anti-combination vaccine, you probably split out as many vaccines as possible into more shots--letting you collect more shot administration fees than I get for doing as many combination vaccines as I can (such as pediarix and kinrix because I don't like making the kid cry any more than is necessary.). You, of course, will claim "safety concerns" for why you split them out, of which there are none. Finally, since you run a non-insurance practice, I will bet you charge a lot more for well checks as well as your run of the mill 99213 level visits than someone who gets for them who is contracted with insurance. O</p> <p>There is nowhere on this planet that is "a long way from here" anymore. People travel internationally all the time and, for better or worse, US customs doesn't really screen much for incoming infectious diseases. You can't really tell me that LA isn't a great melting pot for international travelers, can you?</p> <p>The Slate article this last week about why rich parents (esp those in California, how odd...that is where you and Dr. Bob are) aren't vaccinating their kids has me wondering if you and Sears don't have them snowed into thinking their sh!t don't stink--or maybe you play on that to convince them that all those silly diseases like measles and pertussis and polio and invasive hib aren't really that dangerous and couldn't possibly invade their little enclaves or infect their children (which obviously is wrong since Sear's patient went off to Switzerland and came back with measles). </p> <p>I do hope you remember that you could legally find yourself on an especially long walk off a short pier should one of your non-vaccinated patients ever get really sick from a vaccine preventable disease and the parents of that child decide it was your fault, for your vaccination practices fall so so so far short of the standard of care.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235337&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vWE7P_DQrfpf7gg90Zjhvs7z2bvXjW4JbAmPfBO-Hy0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 17 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235337">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235338" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376800042"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Chris Hickie</p> <blockquote><p>How can a busy, cutting edge guy like Goron have time to worry about rubella when he’s found his true calling in preventing autism through healthy sperm initiatives?</p></blockquote> <p>I've been MIA for quite a while... I've never heard this before. Can someone point me to what this is referring to?</p> <p>@Alain</p> <p>Hope you get better soon!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235338&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JxT5aiovOrsUcoTABp5vrw4iu24tlhfj8DsF8RrH0V8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">flip (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235338">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235339" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376809900"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In his new book on "preventing autism" (with no real science to back it up), he spends a good chunk of one chapter telling dads-to-be how to have the most awesome super de duper sperm ever--which of course prevents your child from having autism (in Gordon's world). Even better, that chapter and one of the adjacent chapters don't even have references listed at the end of the book, so there's no way for anyone to even check out his claims. </p> <p>Par for the course for him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235339&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cs-XDHgoOKiISBkXX3--9xBZszX0X-aNHrPx6T4-4Rk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235339">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235340" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376813864"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You're just jealous, Chris - because Jay's a a male lactation expert* and you're not.</p> <p>*for some reason this reminds me of Groucho's line about playing "Somewhere My Love Lies Sleeping" with a male chorus.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235340&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gn3uLWCsezRYcirt9gIbd5XLSujLlNcg9bQ76LxUFKc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235340">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235341" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376814306"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Something, something, something...about the biological clock and healthy sperm, I suspect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235341&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zwHiJL70BNwMesBdzft0w4ztTK-r6pADRFgU0mxbn6w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235341">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235342" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376816842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ lilady:</p> <p>I think that I can help ( although I haven't read the book) but don't those who are concerned with natural health/ a toxin-free lifestyle/ alt med believe that prior to conception, one or BOTH parents should "clean up their lifestyle"- not drink or smoke anything, use rx meds, OTC meds, non-organic foods, avoid radiation, pure water etc?</p> <p>Some go as far as to preach avoidance of home cleaning products, cosmetics/ shampoos, GMOs..<br /> in order to cleanse and purify their... uh... essence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235342&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="20NyQhqlJARz1QSrJ-YUuwPOzedrXWq8E-V7ECqQrmw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235342">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235343" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376817239"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In other news:</p> <p>Cat Jameson of AoA ( and TMR, as Mamacita) filled in for another TM who was asked by a US tv news outlet to comment about the recent study linking ASDs and birth interventions.</p> <p>She speaks about her experiences @ AoA ( probably soon also at TMR).</p> <p>Is it just me or does any else wonder WHY TMR was consulted and asked to comment about research?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235343&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vImz6Av4McDmEuw80oBI7y-wkFHxCJNbs98CQxlLn4U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235343">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235344" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376819187"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As if...anyone, anywhere, takes the Thinking Moms seriously when it comes to research.</p> <p>So Jameson, calls her pal Stagmom and consults with the bot; her most knowledgeable "expert" is a doula "with ten years experience" !!</p> <p>What dullards they all are, with their assumptions that women and their doctors induce labor for "their convenience" and that every induction involves teh ebil chemicals:</p> <p><a href="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/inducing-labor/PR00117">http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/inducing-labor/PR00117</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235344&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pMSVyMlqFegU-nzvHvLNnftUtBWnh-DmmpTHlNNNJBc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235344">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235345" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376821961"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Altho' it is Faux** News, still she was interviewed by the anchor/ reporter for 5 and 10 pm, Shawn Yancy ( I looked at her wiki)-<br /> and yes, while that metro area is probably a scrumptiously seething pit of liberalism, I'm sure that *some* people must watch it .</p> <p>- isn't that where Jake resides and at least two minions we know and love as well? Wy weren't THEY asked to comment? ( that's partially a joke - about the former)</p> <p>** Now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they somehow connected to Uncle Rupert?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235345&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="94do4EIVh_enoytFs5q8Xs0rI814fVvr04mXVYy2cd8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235345">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235346" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376822512"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks guys, now it makes sense*</p> <p>*or as much sense as it was bound to</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235346&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oS0xWfJttochAGabpU24xivjWWnWSe7WPBHXYsl09HU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Flip (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235346">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235347" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376822789"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>According to Jameson, Yancy is an "autism mom".</p> <p>Jake really isn't a good interviewee...he's all in on "toxicities" in vaccines.</p> <p>BTW, Casa Wakefield in Austin, is off the market, as of August 12th.</p> <p><a href="http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/802-Crystal-Creek-Dr-Austin-TX-78746/29337586_zpid/">http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/802-Crystal-Creek-Dr-Austin-TX-78746/…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235347&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4x1u8LTw9uV0SHur_qOSLOAfclmbeCADphjAjww4Rzg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235347">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235348" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376826027"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>@Shay Occurrences like that, conversations with Ren and others and just plain maturity have changed my thoughts and practices.</i></p> <p>It would appear you don't believe anyone remembers what you post on other threads.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235348&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wbotHLWue4Piolxj7_Q6lcVO9TQGCMq_1HLnvYMoRo0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235348">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235349" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376826433"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, Dangerous Bacon, but if Jay wants to help men lactate, well, that's his business.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235349&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZORiPA87au5xncE6F4hizXGeEg7gKyw-aqrD4ueUgv8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christopher Hickie (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235349">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235350" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376828359"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Jay Gordon (look! I'm being humble by pointing out that I'm not posting any initials! Give me props for that, folks!)</p> <blockquote><p>What on earth would be the point of that [naming those anti-vaccine extremists who aren't worth listening to]?</p></blockquote> <p>Well, for one thing, it would be a small step toward improving your credibility with science-minded folks. But the more important thing it would accomplish is that, as I told you a couple times already, it would say something to those lurkers who might otherwise listen to those anti-vaccine extremists. They might think, "Hey, I respect Dr. Jay. And he says these people probably aren't the best ones to listen to. Maybe I'll avoid them or at least be a bit more careful as I read them."</p> <p>You see, Jay, there's more to all this than just you. That's the problem, I think. You are so self-absorbed that you don't even stop to think about <i>other</i> people's well-being. You're so concerned with how <i>you</i> will be perceived that you would rather stay quiet and let parents get taken in by charlatans and whackos than to take a stand, risk offending someone (Oh, the horror of it all!) and doing the right thing.</p> <p>That's the difference between you and everyone else in this thread, Jay. We don't give a s*** about the opinions of those who promote dangerous nonsense. We care about the parents and the <i>children</i> that they threaten. Want an example of the damage your buds over at Generation Rescue can do? Take a look at the Minnesota Somali community. How has listening to GR served those children? Oh, wait. I remember your opinion on them. Those kids that were hospitalized due to measles? You said they were just "<a href="http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2011/03/soft-hospitalizations-in-minnesota.html">soft hospitalizations</a>".</p> <p>Come back when you grow a spine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235350&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7DYGEPcHjY7_vvmWzVUIRiXAV6grAHXzoZ-rLXG65ro"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235350">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235351" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376829077"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Come back when you grow a spine.</p></blockquote> <p>Heck, I'd settle for a conscience.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235351&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7ZiFbf3HCyVGR57mod3FPiIvflq6qDzdXld6iJieYnQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235351">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235352" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376829666"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice Walter: Did you know that the Fox station in Austin has uncritically interviewed Polly Tommey for autism stories THREE TIMES this summer?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1235352&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5WMvdC1Oc-UtljUCsBCBcKTJ_z4cptMJ8X_P1g374XI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sebastian Jackson (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1686/feed#comment-1235352">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1235353" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1376831206"></mark> <div class="well">