ebola https://scienceblogs.com/ en Trump Against the World https://scienceblogs.com/seed/2017/02/06/trump-against-the-world <span>Trump Against the World</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Donald Trump continues his blitz to fulfill all his campaign promises at once, leaving snowflakes aghast and deplorables cheering for the proto-fascism on parade at The White House. On International Holocaust Remembrance Day, Trump issued a statement "in the name of the perished" <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2017/01/30/holocaust-denial-from-the-white-house/">without any reference to Jews or anti-semitism</a>, and while his Chief of Staff spun this omission a sign of inclusivity, Mark Hoofnagle writes on Denialism Blog that "this is part of a long history of Holocaust denial, in which the experience, memory, and truth of Jewish survivors and victims is diminished and denied." As Orac <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/01/31/holocaust-denial-from-the-white-house-on-international-holocaust-remembrance-day/">writes on Respectful Insolence</a>, "whatever the source of Hitler’s antisemitism, it was one of the animating forces of Nazi-ism, arguably <em>the</em> animating force."</p> <p>Meanwhile, Greg Laden writes that the U.S. finds itself in a very dangerous situation, wherein income inequality has reached a breaking point and our <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2017/01/30/the-norms-of-society-and-presidential-executive-orders/">elected officials no longer play by the rules</a>. Greg says "we now have a man who by all indications intends to dictate, not lead, dictate not rule, dictate not represent." Since his inauguration Trump has not only closed U.S. borders to many foreigners, he has also hobbled public health programs around the world by prohibiting foreign organizations that receive U.S. aid from performing or providing information about abortions. Ironically, as Liz Borkowski writes on The Pump Handle, this rule only serves to <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2017/01/30/a-destructive-executive-action-for-global-health/">increase the rate of abortions worldwide</a>, and also increases the risk posed by global threats such as Ebola. Trump's actions reveal one promise he has failed to keep: that he would be a president for <em>all</em> Americans.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/milhayser" lang="" about="/author/milhayser" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">milhayser</a></span> <span>Mon, 02/06/2017 - 09:14</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/misc" hreflang="en">Misc</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/abortions" hreflang="en">abortions</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/anti-semitism" hreflang="en">Anti-Semitism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/denialism" hreflang="en">Denialism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/donald-trump" hreflang="en">Donald Trump</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/hitler" hreflang="en">hitler</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/holocaust" hreflang="en">Holocaust</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/income-inequality" hreflang="en">Income Inequality</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-disease" hreflang="en">infectious disease</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/usaid" hreflang="en">USAID</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/seed/2017/02/06/trump-against-the-world%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 06 Feb 2017 14:14:37 +0000 milhayser 69281 at https://scienceblogs.com Disease outbreak guarantees: A proposal to build public health capacity in developing nations (rerun) https://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2016/12/28/disease-outbreak-guarantees-a-proposal-to-build-public-health-capacity-in-developing-nations-rerun <span>Disease outbreak guarantees: A proposal to build public health capacity in developing nations (rerun)</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><em>The Pump Handle is on a holiday break. The following, which was originally published on July 8, is one of our favorite posts from 2016.</em></p> <p>by Kim Krisberg</p> <p>In 2005, the World Health Assembly adopted a revised version of its <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/healthprotection/ghs/ihr/">International Health Regulations</a>, a legally binding treaty among 196 nations to boost global health security and strengthen the world’s capacity to confront serious disease threats such as Ebola and SARS. A decade later, just one-third of countries have the ability to respond to a public health emergency. That’s why Rebecca Katz thinks it’s time to get creative.</p> <p>“How can we think creatively about incentives for countries to build the required public health capacity under international treaty obligations,” Katz, an associate professor of international health at Georgetown University, told me. “What kind of arguments can be made to make public health infrastructure a core component of development programs?”</p> <p>One way, she argues, could be through the World Bank Group’s <a href="https://www.miga.org">Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency</a> (MIGA), which provides political risk insurance to help promote investments in developing countries. Basically, MIGA is a public insurance option for high-risk projects that can’t secure private insurance, essentially providing a pathway for direct foreign investment in developing nations. For example, Katz said, imagine a business wants to build a dam in a politically instable country, but no private insurer will take on the risk that the project could be derailed by civil war or expropriation. Instead, the investor could turn to MIGA to insure the project.</p> <p>And so Katz’s idea is to link MIGA insurance and public health capacity — MIGA would only offer insurance in countries with a decent public health infrastructure in place or in countries making sufficient progress toward such an infrastructure. Katz, along with Richard Seifman, an international health consultant formerly with the World Bank, published their <a href="http://www.healthfinancejournal.com/index.php/johcf/article/view/69">idea</a> in June in the <em>Journal of Health Care Finance</em>, where they wrote:</p> <blockquote><p>Virtually all developing countries will need or want increased direct investment, but the intricate connection between high-risk infectious disease prevention, preparedness and external investment financing has not been on the public sector radar, global or otherwise. Countries and the international financing community must identify a means to allay the concerns of external investor(s) that may choose one developing country over another based on external disease threats. …</p> <p>For example, a mining company may consider a new construction project requiring thousands of workers and in a country that has a weak health care and public health infrastructure, limited to nonexistent capacity to detect or respond to an infectious disease outbreak, and has a high endemic disease burden. The company’s business plan cannot afford an Ebola-like event, which would shut down its operation. The country, however, desperately needs the mining investment but is strapped for public funds to do what is needed to advance its infectious disease capacities and preparedness planning. If a MIGA guarantee premium formula over the life of the private investment could be based on rewarding a country making improvements, it would be a win-win situation.</p></blockquote> <p>In other words, Katz said, the new MIGA requirements could lead countries to focus on public health capacity, which would result in a country securing MIGA assurances, which could then lead to more private investment in countries that need such investments the most. The journal article suggests that MIGA’s “Breach of Contract” language could cover a government’s agreement to take “reasonable steps in meeting the (International Health Regulations) core capacities.” In theory, that agreement would be breached if the government failed to build or make progress toward building such public health capacity.</p> <p>The article lists a brief step-by-step approach to putting the MIGA idea into action, including a three-to-five year pilot phase.</p> <p>“It’s about making public health and health care a core component of a country’s priorities,” Katz said.</p> <p>Of course, the countries in question are very often resource-poor and face a number of competing and often urgent priorities. Many just don’t have the resources to build an adequate public health infrastructure, Katz said, and changing the MIGA standards won’t make those resources automatically appear. But she said the cost of building such public health capacity would “almost surely” be passed on to investors and built into project negotiations between countries and private business.</p> <p>“The entire global health security agenda was built around the idea that we needed a different way to think about funding countries to build (public health) capacity,” Katz told me. “This is just one idea, but these are conversations that have to be had.”</p> <p>And Katz and Seifman offer a handful of compelling examples about why such conversations are so important, highlighting the severe impacts of recent global disease outbreaks. According to the article, cumulative losses in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia associated with the Ebola outbreak totaled more than $2 billion as of mid-2015; the 2003 SARS outbreak cost Canada and Southeast Asian nations about $50 billion; and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome in South Korea resulted in more than 17,000 people being quarantined and about a 40 percent drop in foreign visitors.</p> <p>“Given the World Bank’s existing efforts to protect against pandemics, MIGA should be part of the Bank’s suite of activities to provide for a more comprehensive approach to prevent, prepare and react to public health emergencies,” the article states. “No viable private sector insurance options exist in this space, nor is there any private/public mechanism alternative on the horizon.”</p> <p>But should we be concerned about attaching critical public health capacity in developing nations to private investment? Shouldn’t such public health efforts be well funded regardless? Of course, said Katz, but it’s just not happening to the extent it needs to be.</p> <p>“I understand that perspective, but we’re talking about parts of the world that desperately need that foreign investment,” she told me. “We have to be pragmatic…we have to think about the whole of society and if (public health) just stays in its own lane then we’re not being creative. There’s just not enough money in our lane to do the type of work we need to get the job done. I wish there was.”</p> <p>Katz said she and her colleagues have received some good feedback on the MIGA idea from officials at the World Bank. But, at this point, she just wants to “put the idea out there.”</p> <p>“It’s about getting new ideas out there and getting our community to think of all the different ways we can get the resources we need,” Katz said. “We’re trying to spark a conversation.</p> <p>For a full copy of Katz and Seifman’s article, visit the <a href="http://www.healthfinancejournal.com/index.php/johcf/article/view/69_"><em>Journal of Health Care Finance</em></a>.</p> <p><em>Kim Krisberg is a freelance public health writer living in Austin, Texas, and has been writing about public health for nearly 15 years.</em></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/lborkowski" lang="" about="/author/lborkowski" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lborkowski</a></span> <span>Wed, 12/28/2016 - 05:40</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/government" hreflang="en">government</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-diseases" hreflang="en">infectious diseases</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-general" hreflang="en">Public Health - General</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/developing-countries" hreflang="en">Developing Countries</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/disease-outbreaks" hreflang="en">disease outbreaks</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/disease-pandemics" hreflang="en">disease pandemics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/economic-development" hreflang="en">economic development</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-health" hreflang="en">global health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/healthcare" hreflang="en">healthcare</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/international-health" hreflang="en">international health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/poverty" hreflang="en">poverty</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/preparedness" hreflang="en">preparedness</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/prevention" hreflang="en">Prevention</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/regulations" hreflang="en">Regulations</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/world-bank" hreflang="en">World Bank</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/thepumphandle/2016/12/28/disease-outbreak-guarantees-a-proposal-to-build-public-health-capacity-in-developing-nations-rerun%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:40:04 +0000 lborkowski 62762 at https://scienceblogs.com Just how long does the Ebola virus linger in semen? https://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2016/09/27/just-how-long-does-the-ebola-virus-linger-in-semen <span>Just how long does the Ebola virus linger in semen?</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The 2013-2016 West African Ebola virus outbreak altered our perception of just what an Ebola outbreak could look like.</p> <p>While none of the three primary affected countries--Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea-have had a case since April 2016, the outbreak resulted in a total of over <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/2014-west-africa/case-counts.html">28,000 cases of Ebola virus disease</a> (EVD)--65 times higher than the previous largest EVD outbreak, and more than 15 times the total number of cases of all <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/history/chronology.html">prior EVD outbreaks combined</a>, from the virus's discovery in 1976 to a concurrent (but unrelated) <a href="http://www.voanews.com/a/liberia-declared-ebola-free-for-4th-time/3368673.html">outbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo</a> in 2014.</p> <p>In March 2016, cases were identified once again in both Liberia and Guinea, just after the outbreak had been <a href="http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/03/cases-guinea-end-west-africas-short-lived-ebola-free-status">declared over</a>. Both countries were declared Ebola-free in June 2016; Guinea for the <a href="http://www.voanews.com/a/who-declares-guinee-ebola-free/3356856.html">second time</a> and Liberia for the <a href="http://www.voanews.com/a/liberia-declared-ebola-free-for-4th-time/3368673.html">fourth time</a>. The last series of cases in these countries demonstrated just how different this epidemic was from prior ones, <a href="http://qz.com/667437/ebola-resurgences-in-west-africa-suggest-the-virus-can-linger-longer-than-expected/">changing what we thought we knew about the virus</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>Previous research suggested Ebola could persist in the semen for <a href="http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/196/Supplement_2/S142.long">40</a> to <a href="http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/S28.long">90</a> days. But that window has been eclipsed in this epidemic by a considerable amount. A <a href="http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1509773">probable case of sexual transmission</a> occurred approximately six months after the patient’s initial infection last year in Liberia. Another study found evidence of Ebola in the semen of 25% of surviving men tested <a href="http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1511410">seven to nine months after infection</a>. And it takes only a single transmission to kick off a fresh recurrence of the disease.</p></blockquote> <p>A <a href="http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/08/31/cid.ciw601.full.pdf">recent paper</a> extended this window of virus persistence in the semen even longer--over 500 days. It also explains how the outbreaks began in both countries after being declared Ebola-free--so where did the virus come from?</p> <p>In a convergence of old-fashioned, <a href="http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/172/6/737.full">"shoe leather" epidemiology</a>/tracing of cases and viral genomics, two converging lines of evidence led to the identification of the same individual: a man who had been confirmed as an EVD case in 2014, and had sexual contact with one of the new cases. Author <a href="https://twitter.com/pathogenomenick">Nick Loman</a> discussed via email:</p> <blockquote><p>The epidemiologists told us independently that they had identified a survivor and we were amazed when we decoded the metadata to find that case was indeed the same person. The sequencing and epidemiology is tightly coordinated via Guinea's Ministry of Health who ran National Coordination for the Ebola outbreak and the World Health Organisation.</p> <p>It shows that the genomics and epidemiology works best when working hand-in-hand. If we’d just had the genomics or the epidemiology we’d still have an element of doubt.</p></blockquote> <p>The sequencing results also suggested that it was likely that the new viral outbreak was caused by this survivor, and unlikely that the outbreak was due to another "spillover" of the virus from the local animal population, according to author <a href="https://twitter.com/arambaut">Andrew Rambaut</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>If the virus was present in bats and jumped to humans again in 2016, it might be genetically similar to the viruses in the human outbreak but not have any of the mutations that uniquely arose in the human outbreak (it would have its own unique mutations that had arisen in the bat population since the virus that caused human epidemic).</p> <p>It might be possible that the virus jumped from humans to some animal reservoir in the region and then back to humans in 2016 but because we have the virus sequence from the patients acute disease 15 months earlier we can see that it essentially <em>exactly </em>the same virus. So this makes it certain the virus was persisting in this individual for the period.</p></blockquote> <p>So the virus--persisting in the survivor's semen for at least 531 days--sparked a new wave of cases. Ebola researcher Daniel Bausch <a href="http://qz.com/667437/ebola-resurgences-in-west-africa-suggest-the-virus-can-linger-longer-than-expected/">noted elsewhere</a> that “The virus does seem to persist longer than we’ve ever recognized before. Sexual transmission still seems to be rare, but the sample size of survivors now is so much larger than we’ve ever had before (maybe 3,000-5,000 sexually active males versus 50-100 for the largest previous outbreak) that we’re picking up rare events.”</p> <p>And we're now actively looking for those rare events, too. The <a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(16)30207-8/fulltext?rss=yes">Liberia Men's Health Screening Program</a> already reports detection of Ebola virus in the semen at 565 days following symptoms, suggesting we will need to remain vigilant about survivors in both this and any future EVD epidemics. The challenges are clear--we need to investigate EVD survivors as patients, research participants, and possible viral reservoirs--each of which comes with unique difficulties. By continuing to learn as much as we can from this outbreak, perhaps we can contain future outbreaks more quickly--and prevent others from igniting.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/aetiology" lang="" about="/aetiology" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tsmith</a></span> <span>Tue, 09/27/2016 - 08:26</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/general-epidemiology" hreflang="en">General Epidemiology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-disease" hreflang="en">infectious disease</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/outbreak" hreflang="en">outbreak</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/epidemiology" hreflang="en">epidemiology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/filovirus" hreflang="en">filovirus</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/viruses" hreflang="en">viruses</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/zoonosis" hreflang="en">zoonosis</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-disease" hreflang="en">infectious disease</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/outbreak" hreflang="en">outbreak</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844807" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1474995653"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh wow. That transmission method is going to make this disease even harder to stay on top of. I can't imagine getting compliance from every man who survived Ebola to not have sex for 2 years (or more!).</p> <p>The only thing I can hope is that this increases the acceptability of condom use (male and female) in the area.</p> <p>It probably won't help the stigmatization and isolation of survivors.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844807&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YNfYGdA_-sYYG01CQDJ_Cc9whI7irw7eTPmCdzsSkoU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844807">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="65" id="comment-1844808" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1475073811"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yes, stigma remains a big issue that wasn't really addressed. Condom use is definitely being recommended but I don't know how well that message has been received. And even then, recommendations previously were for "a few months" then "6 months" and now...a year? 2 years? forever? There's going to be a lot of confusion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844808&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TTqNoXELRj6Rx8ERQ_d0IuYD3PqdCsjMdTurrFuxzNw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/aetiology" lang="" about="/aetiology" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tsmith</a> on 28 Sep 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844808">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/aetiology"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/aetiology" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/me-and-pig-120x120.jpg?itok=nb6hvLpH" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user tsmith" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844809" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1498166295"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Very interesting article!! I had actually no idea about the severity of the Ebola virus until the 2014 outbreak!! It seems unreal that the virus can be carried that long in the semen and is kind of scary that it is possible in case of another outbreak that seems like it would be very hard to control the sexual activity of every man with the virus!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844809&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="A1BP1CO1y47UGvM7r4-SAWOEf25VXr2RIMT0Jxid34Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">taylor (not verified)</span> on 22 Jun 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844809">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/aetiology/2016/09/27/just-how-long-does-the-ebola-virus-linger-in-semen%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:26:19 +0000 tsmith 58145 at https://scienceblogs.com Disease outbreak guarantees: A proposal to build public health capacity in developing nations https://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2016/07/08/disease-outbreak-guarantees-a-proposal-to-build-public-health-capacity-in-developing-nations <span>Disease outbreak guarantees: A proposal to build public health capacity in developing nations</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In 2005, the World Health Assembly adopted a revised version of its <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/healthprotection/ghs/ihr/">International Health Regulations</a>, a legally binding treaty among 196 nations to boost global health security and strengthen the world’s capacity to confront serious disease threats such as Ebola and SARS. A decade later, just one-third of countries have the ability to respond to a public health emergency. That’s why Rebecca Katz thinks it’s time to get creative.</p> <p>“How can we think creatively about incentives for countries to build the required public health capacity under international treaty obligations,” Katz, an associate professor of international health at Georgetown University, told me. “What kind of arguments can be made to make public health infrastructure a core component of development programs?”</p> <p>One way, she argues, could be through the World Bank Group’s <a href="https://www.miga.org">Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency</a> (MIGA), which provides political risk insurance to help promote investments in developing countries. Basically, MIGA is a public insurance option for high-risk projects that can’t secure private insurance, essentially providing a pathway for direct foreign investment in developing nations. For example, Katz said, imagine a business wants to build a dam in a politically instable country, but no private insurer will take on the risk that the project could be derailed by civil war or expropriation. Instead, the investor could turn to MIGA to insure the project.</p> <p>And so Katz’s idea is to link MIGA insurance and public health capacity — MIGA would only offer insurance in countries with a decent public health infrastructure in place or in countries making sufficient progress toward such an infrastructure. Katz, along with Richard Seifman, an international health consultant formerly with the World Bank, published their <a href="http://www.healthfinancejournal.com/index.php/johcf/article/view/69">idea</a> in June in the <em>Journal of Health Care Finance</em>, where they wrote:</p> <blockquote><p>Virtually all developing countries will need or want increased direct investment, but the intricate connection between high-risk infectious disease prevention, preparedness and external investment financing has not been on the public sector radar, global or otherwise. Countries and the international financing community must identify a means to allay the concerns of external investor(s) that may choose one developing country over another based on external disease threats. …</p> <p>For example, a mining company may consider a new construction project requiring thousands of workers and in a country that has a weak health care and public health infrastructure, limited to nonexistent capacity to detect or respond to an infectious disease outbreak, and has a high endemic disease burden. The company’s business plan cannot afford an Ebola-like event, which would shut down its operation. The country, however, desperately needs the mining investment but is strapped for public funds to do what is needed to advance its infectious disease capacities and preparedness planning. If a MIGA guarantee premium formula over the life of the private investment could be based on rewarding a country making improvements, it would be a win-win situation.</p></blockquote> <p>In other words, Katz said, the new MIGA requirements could lead countries to focus on public health capacity, which would result in a country securing MIGA assurances, which could then lead to more private investment in countries that need such investments the most. The journal article suggests that MIGA’s “Breach of Contract” language could cover a government’s agreement to take “reasonable steps in meeting the (International Health Regulations) core capacities.” In theory, that agreement would be breached if the government failed to build or make progress toward building such public health capacity.</p> <p>The article lists a brief step-by-step approach to putting the MIGA idea into action, including a three-to-five year pilot phase.</p> <p>“It’s about making public health and health care a core component of a country’s priorities,” Katz said.</p> <p>Of course, the countries in question are very often resource-poor and face a number of competing and often urgent priorities. Many just don’t have the resources to build an adequate public health infrastructure, Katz said, and changing the MIGA standards won’t make those resources automatically appear. But she said the cost of building such public health capacity would “almost surely” be passed on to investors and built into project negotiations between countries and private business.</p> <p>“The entire global health security agenda was built around the idea that we needed a different way to think about funding countries to build (public health) capacity,” Katz told me. “This is just one idea, but these are conversations that have to be had.”</p> <p>And Katz and Seifman offer a handful of compelling examples about why such conversations are so important, highlighting the severe impacts of recent global disease outbreaks. According to the article, cumulative losses in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia associated with the Ebola outbreak totaled more than $2 billion as of mid-2015; the 2003 SARS outbreak cost Canada and Southeast Asian nations about $50 billion; and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome in South Korea resulted in more than 17,000 people being quarantined and about a 40 percent drop in foreign visitors.</p> <p>“Given the World Bank’s existing efforts to protect against pandemics, MIGA should be part of the Bank’s suite of activities to provide for a more comprehensive approach to prevent, prepare and react to public health emergencies,” the article states. “No viable private sector insurance options exist in this space, nor is there any private/public mechanism alternative on the horizon.”</p> <p>But should we be concerned about attaching critical public health capacity in developing nations to private investment? Shouldn’t such public health efforts be well funded regardless? Of course, said Katz, but it’s just not happening to the extent it needs to be.</p> <p>“I understand that perspective, but we’re talking about parts of the world that desperately need that foreign investment,” she told me. “We have to be pragmatic…we have to think about the whole of society and if (public health) just stays in its own lane then we’re not being creative. There’s just not enough money in our lane to do the type of work we need to get the job done. I wish there was.”</p> <p>Katz said she and her colleagues have received some good feedback on the MIGA idea from officials at the World Bank. But, at this point, she just wants to “put the idea out there.”</p> <p>“It’s about getting new ideas out there and getting our community to think of all the different ways we can get the resources we need,” Katz said. “We’re trying to spark a conversation.</p> <p>For a full copy of Katz and Seifman’s article, visit the <a href="http://www.healthfinancejournal.com/index.php/johcf/article/view/69_"><em>Journal of Health Care Finance</em></a>.</p> <p><em>Kim Krisberg is a freelance public health writer living in Austin, Texas, and has been writing about public health for nearly 15 years.</em></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/kkrisberg" lang="" about="/author/kkrisberg" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">kkrisberg</a></span> <span>Fri, 07/08/2016 - 09:26</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/government" hreflang="en">government</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-diseases" hreflang="en">infectious diseases</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-general" hreflang="en">Public Health - General</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/developing-countries" hreflang="en">Developing Countries</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/disease-outbreaks" hreflang="en">disease outbreaks</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/disease-pandemics" hreflang="en">disease pandemics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/economic-development" hreflang="en">economic development</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-health" hreflang="en">global health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/healthcare" hreflang="en">healthcare</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/international-health-regulations" hreflang="en">International Health Regulations</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/poverty" hreflang="en">poverty</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/prevention" hreflang="en">Prevention</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-preparedness" hreflang="en">Public health preparedness</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/regulation" hreflang="en">regulation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/world-bank" hreflang="en">World Bank</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/thepumphandle/2016/07/08/disease-outbreak-guarantees-a-proposal-to-build-public-health-capacity-in-developing-nations%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 08 Jul 2016 13:26:15 +0000 kkrisberg 62650 at https://scienceblogs.com With mosquito season around the corner, Congress drags its feet on Zika funding https://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2016/05/12/with-mosquito-season-around-the-corner-congress-drags-its-feet-on-zika-funding <span>With mosquito season around the corner, Congress drags its feet on Zika funding</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>With near constant news on the threat of Zika virus and a quickly growing <a href="http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/05/11/477648872/how-the-zika-virus-damages-the-brain">evidence base</a> detailing the virus’ devastating impact on fetal brain development, you’d think Congress could get its act together to make sure our public health system is fully prepared and equipped to confront the mosquito-borne disease. Sadly, you’d be wrong.</p> <p>It’s been nearly <em>three months </em>since the White House submitted a request to Congress proposing $1.9 billion in emergency funding to support a full range of activities needed to prepare for, prevent, detect and respond to Zika in the United States. As of today, May 12, Congress has yet to finalize funding. According to the White House, the funding would support accelerated vaccine research; mosquito surveillance and control; education for health care providers, women and their families; improved health services for low-income women, who may be most at risk of infection; and prevention activities in countries experiencing active Zika transmission, which would help curb the virus’ spread beyond their borders.</p> <p>Despite the risk and the more than 45 congressional public hearings and briefings on Zika, many Republicans, with the exception of Congress members from Florida, have actually suggested that emergency Zika funding can just wait. In fact, in mid-April, some Republican leaders suggested a decision on the funding could wait until the fall — after mosquito season. Harold Rogers, R-Ky., House Appropriations chair, actually <a href="http://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/zika-funding-spars-war-words">called</a> Obama’s request a “slush fund.” (This is the same man who consistently votes to restrict abortion services because he wants to <a href="http://halrogers.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398422">“protect life.”</a>) Fortunately, some news outlets reported today that Congress members are closer to hammering out a <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-zika-congress-options-idUSKCN0Y32GY">deal</a>, though it might not match the White House’s entire request.</p> <p>In the absence of congressional action, the White House in April shifted $510 million in funds from the fight against Ebola toward Zika activities, as well $79 million that had been allotted to public health preparedness activities and the national strategic stockpile of vaccines. But according to the <a href="http://www.who.int/features/2016/ebola-patients-discharge/en/">World Health Organization</a>, work to contain the Ebola outbreak and prevent additional cases in West Africa is still ongoing and Ebola remains a global disease threat, despite its disappearance from the U.S. front pages. So let’s be clear: The lack of congressional action is now forcing our country to choose between which horribly devastating disease we’re going to protect ourselves against, instead of providing our public health system with enough funds to fully protect Americans from both disease threats.</p> <p>In April <a href="http://www.apha.org/~/media/files/pdf/advocacy/letters/2016/160405_zika_coalition_ltrs_congress.ashx">letters</a> to leaders and ranking members in the House and Senate, dozens of health organizations — including the American Public Health Association (APHA), American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, the Children’s Hospital Association and the March of Dimes — implored policymakers to act within this “brief window of opportunity” to provide emergency funding for Zika response, instead of repurposing funding from other priority public health activities and programs. They wrote:</p> <blockquote><p>With emergency supplemental funding to respond to the Zika virus, state and local public health professionals would have access to increased virus readiness and response capacity focused on areas with ongoing Zika transmission; enhanced laboratory, epidemiology and surveillance capacity in at-risk areas to reduce the opportunities for Zika transmission and surge capacity through rapid response teams to limit potential clusters of Zika virus in the United States. Moreover, supplemental funding will assist the CDC and USAID in efforts to contain the Zika virus in Zika-endemic countries and ensure that there are resources for surveillance, vector control and services for affected pregnant women and children.</p> <p>If we take immediate action, we may be able to dramatically slow the spread of Zika, giving scientists time to develop and test a vaccine. Without action, however, we fear the number of newborns born with debilitating birth defects will only continue to rise. In addition to the human toll on children and families, the CDC estimates that the average lifetime cost of caring for each child born with microcephaly will likely be millions of dollars <em>per child</em>. For hard-hit communities, an epidemic of severe birth defects could quickly overwhelm health care and social services systems, and put extreme pressure on educational and other institutions.</p></blockquote> <p>While Zika hasn’t yet made a substantial impact the U.S., the potential certainly exists. For example, in a research <a href="http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/article/on-the-seasonal-occurrence-and-abundance-of-the-zika-virus-vector-mosquito-aedes-aegypti-in-the-contiguous-united-states/">article</a> published in March in the journal <em>PLOS Current Outbreaks</em>, authors used weather-driven models to simulate the potential seasonal abundance of adult <em>Aedes aegypti</em> mosquitoes, the species that transmits Zika, in 50 U.S. cities They found that winter conditions are largely unsuitable to the mosquito in the U.S., except in southern Florida and south Texas. However, conditions for the mosquito are suitable between July and September across the 50 cities studied — those cities ranged from New York City to Kansas City, Missouri, to Sacramento, California. The article also noted that “high poverty rates, an indicator of potential vector-human contact, are particularly prevalent in the southern U.S. where seasonal abundance of <em>Ae. aegypti</em> is simulated to be highest.” It’s also those southern states that tend to have <a href="http://healthyamericans.org/assets/files/TFAH-2016-InvestInAmericaRpt-FINAL.pdf">lower</a> state public health budgets.</p> <p>Looking at the bigger picture, our nation’s collective need to sustain the capacity to promptly respond to serious disease threats didn’t end with Ebola and it certainly won’t end when Zika fades from the headlines. In February, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, co-authored an <a href="http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1600297">article</a> in the <em>New England Journal of Medicine</em>, writing that the spread of Zika “has already reinforced one important lesson: in our human-dominated world, urban crowding, constant international travel, and other human behaviors combined with human-caused microperturbations in ecologic balance can cause innumerable slumbering infectious agents to emerge unexpectedly. In response, we clearly need to up our game with broad and integrated research that expands understanding of the complex ecosystems in which agents of future pandemics are aggressively evolving.”</p> <p>Just yesterday, Fauci made his own plea for emergency funding in an <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/11/nih-anthony-fauci-stalled-funding-raises-zika-threat/84234424/">interview</a> with <em>USA Today</em>: "We have had to pull money out of other areas to get started. You can't sustain that for much longer. That's just a stopgap measure. If we don't get the money that the president has asked for, the $1.9 billion, that is going to have a very serious negative impact on our ability to get the job done."</p> <p>If you’d like to urge your members of Congress to act quickly on Zika funding, APHA has made it as simple as possible for you. Visit this <a href="https://secure3.convio.net/apha/site/Advocacy;jsessionid=E996E5919A111DC72B1367FA4F831589.app322a?cmd=display&amp;page=UserAction&amp;id=1263">site</a>, fill in the blanks, and let your representatives know that preparing for Zika is no time for political games.</p> <p><em>Kim Krisberg is a freelance public health writer living in Austin, Texas, and has been writing about public health for nearly 15 years.</em></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/kkrisberg" lang="" about="/author/kkrisberg" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">kkrisberg</a></span> <span>Thu, 05/12/2016 - 16:31</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/environmental-health" hreflang="en">Environmental health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/government" hreflang="en">government</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/healthcare" hreflang="en">healthcare</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-diseases" hreflang="en">infectious diseases</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-general" hreflang="en">Public Health - General</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/womens-health" hreflang="en">women&#039;s health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/budget-cuts" hreflang="en">budget cuts</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cdc" hreflang="en">CDC</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/child-health" hreflang="en">Child health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/federal-funding" hreflang="en">federal funding</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infant-health" hreflang="en">infant health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mosquito-control" hreflang="en">mosquito control</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mosquito-borne-disease" hreflang="en">mosquito-borne disease</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/prevention" hreflang="en">Prevention</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-preparedness" hreflang="en">Public health preparedness</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/zika" hreflang="en">zika</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/zika-virus" hreflang="en">Zika virus</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/environmental-health" hreflang="en">Environmental health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/healthcare" hreflang="en">healthcare</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/womens-health" hreflang="en">women&#039;s health</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/brain-and-behavior" hreflang="en">Brain and Behavior</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873964" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463087156"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>“While Zika hasn’t yet made a substantial impact the U.S., the potential certainly exists.”</p> <p>Kim,<br /> How does the Zika impact compare to existing impacts of, say, STDs?<br /> The Center for Disease Control and Prevention says:</p> <p>“STDs are a substantial health challenge facing the United States. CDC estimates that nearly 20 MILLION new sexually transmitted infections occur every year in this country, half among young people aged 15–24, and account for almost $16 billion in health care costs.”</p> <p>And apparently, the incidence of certain STDs has INCREASED for the first time in decades!</p> <p>Have you sounded the ScienceBlogs health care alarm on this?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873964&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wkYty05FXFe6PFIXPByuj0pq7YiG2uMnlvaS-hEO7Fk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">See Noevo (not verified)</span> on 12 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873964">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873965" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463121862"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is not a time to go taking gratuitous and misleading digs at the Obama administration.</p> <p>Bottom line is that Congress is fiddling while a potential public health emergency smolders and threatens to burn. This they've been doing about climate change and would do likewise about any other existential threat short of Kim Jong Un threatening to sail an atomic bomb into the port of Los Angeles. </p> <p>The fault here is 100% with those in Congress who are so selfish and vain that they would condemn hundreds of children to permanent brain damage. Just as their counterparts in Flint MI did with lead-poisoned drinking water. </p> <p>Or perhaps it's not a "bug," it's a feature. A large cohort of brain-damaged voters is exactly what the Republican Party needs to preserve its existence 20 or so years out from now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873965&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hwd4sgcatfbDcO0qnlzdpcW2j9EeNK2y0x8Rml3lWCQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">G (not verified)</span> on 13 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873965">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873966" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463128196"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is not an issue for the Republicans because<br /> - doing something would be seen as aiding President Obama on an issue, and that has to be avoided at all costs if you are Republican<br /> - they've long shown that they don't believe public health is an issue the government should be involved in. If people can't take care of themselves they should die (as sn has stated in other locations) - government should be "small" after all, unless (see next point)<br /> - it is a "moral" issue (same sex marriage, pregnancy, women's health) where the right knows best and decides that government should do its best to destroy the will of the people</p> <p>Never under-estimate how incredibly vile the extreme right, which no controls the Republican party, can be towards people who aren't rich, white, and male.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873966&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W1f_-v4zmO69LwACSYLJd8nXaz_vLPEwqY1I4wPac74"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dean (not verified)</span> on 13 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873966">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="73" id="comment-1873967" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463128551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi See Noevo,</p> <p>Indeed, we have: <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2015/11/17/cdc-rates-of-sexually-transmitted-diseases-going-up-in-the-u-s/">http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2015/11/17/cdc-rates-of-sexually-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873967&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mSYG_tSE5Hj26MhGc8lXIiuDG7sE7PYuRxHc-qxxenQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/kkrisberg" lang="" about="/author/kkrisberg" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">kkrisberg</a> on 13 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873967">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/kkrisberg"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/kkrisberg" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/TPH_map.jpg?itok=gR7oRuMi" width="90" height="90" alt="Profile picture for user kkrisberg" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873968" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463139614"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's public health professor Amir Attaran saying that the risk of hundreds of thousands of athletes and fans spreading Zika around the globe is too great and the games should be cancelled:</p> <p><a> Why Rio's 2016 Olympic Games Must Not Proceed.</a></p> <p>This is a very interesting story. How will our ability to assess and possibly prevent a global health issue compare to the IOC's and sports networks' desire to make a lot of money?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873968&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="loahftOBZoBBl5sPiliSMyUbJs8u2PcB64ThB-q8MPs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">GregH (not verified)</span> on 13 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873968">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873969" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463144022"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>To Kim Krisberg #4:</p> <p>Indeed you have!<br /> But I was wondering about one thing from your 2015 STD article.<br /> It seems to be making the case that more government spending will lead to less STD.<br /> For example:<br /> “In response to the new data, the National Coalition of STD Directors noted that proposed federal budget cuts now in Congress “would likely end CDC’s ability to fund all state health departments for STD prevention and control.” Earlier this year, for example, a funding bill that got through the Senate Appropriations Committee included a 20 percent cut to CDC’s Division of STD Prevention… “These shocking and ever-increasing STD rates are a real clarion call for action,” stated William Smith, executive director of the National Coalition of STD Directors. “This is a time when the health care delivery system needs public health leadership and additional investments in this work are required to ensure this leadership. Cuts to our public health system at the federal, state, and local levels have eviscerated its capacity and this diminished capacity of the public health system simply cannot adequately address STD increases of this magnitude.”</p> <p>Kim, do you have a data handy that supports this argument? Like, the amount of government spending on STD issues today and 50 years ago and 100 years ago<br /> vs. the incidence of STDs today and 50 years ago and 100 years ago?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873969&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vzayb5gqCGktw1YkCHn8WQz48ahrAC00JiVzsXXJz38"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">See Noevo (not verified)</span> on 13 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873969">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873970" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1463245677"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I screwed up the link in #5. It should be:</p> <p><a href="http://harvardpublichealthreview.org/off-the-podium-why-rios-2016-olympic-games-must-not-proceed/">http://harvardpublichealthreview.org/off-the-podium-why-rios-2016-olymp…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873970&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sG67IV5cu0kMNlf8OiPyBzZ9sxh0ACSijIcCrwBdr2c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">GregH (not verified)</span> on 14 May 2016 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873970">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/thepumphandle/2016/05/12/with-mosquito-season-around-the-corner-congress-drags-its-feet-on-zika-funding%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 12 May 2016 20:31:50 +0000 kkrisberg 62613 at https://scienceblogs.com Rethinking Pandemics At Several Levels https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/10/26/rethinking-pandemics-like-ebola <span>Rethinking Pandemics At Several Levels</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's a question for you:<em> Historical records show that another pandemic will occur, but no one knows when. How do we create a mind shift among world leaders and people in general to start planning for the next one now?</em></p> <p>This question is being posed in connection with <a href="http://tvblogs.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/28/breakthroughs-fighting-pandemics-science-and-education-experts-weigh-in/">the series premiere of National Geographic's "Fighting Pandemics" (November 1 at 9 pm ET on National Geographic Channel)</a>. The question is about pandemics, but the inspiration for the series, and the question, is the recent ebola pandemic in West Africa. I have a few thoughts, and I've been thinking about Ebola for a long time. </p> <p>My first two encounters with Ebola might not have been encounters with Ebola, but might have been.</p> <p>I was doing archaeology in a remote part of the Congo, not far from some of the earlier known outbreaks, in a region where later outbreaks occurred as well. In researching abandoned villages, one of which I partially excavated, I found out that there were settlements that had been struck with a terrible disease that killed many of the residents and made many others very ill. These events, of the previous decade or two, were so tragic and traumatic that those village sites were abandoned, and everyone I talked to claimed that they would never use those village sites again, even though re-occupation of villages previously abandoned as part of the swidden agricultural system was common. Ebola? Maybe. </p> <p>Around the same time I was reading through a 1950s vintage travel guide to Uganda and the Belgian Congo, owned by my then father-in-law, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/08/21/anthropologist-neil-tappen-has-died/">Neil Tappen</a>. Neil and his wife, Ardith, had worked there in the early 1960s, where Neil produced the first comprehensive survey of the rich primate fauna. They had acquired the book used, so they could not explain the marginal notes added by a previous owner, tallying the death rates of some group or another, with a mortality rate of about 60%. Ebola? Maybe. </p> <p>If I had told those stories to an Ebola expert five years ago, I’d probably be told this was unlikely to have been that particular disease because it wasn’t around then. Now, we might be thinking Ebola has a longer history in the region. That is one of the many ways in which Ebola is being re-conceived in light of both the experience of the Ebola pandemic, and research spurred by that horrible chapter in West African history. </p> <p>This and other events were enough to spark a long term interest in Ebola, and years ago I was able to contribute a couple of ideas to help in the <a href="http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/ebola/quammen-text">hunt for a natural non-human reservoir</a>. That was when fruit bats were first being given a hard look, and today, they are still suspect. </p> <p>So what about the question at hand?</p> <p>The first thing that comes to my mind is how do we put in place the resources needed to come immediately up to speed when a new pandemic seems to be starting. This would include monitoring in order to get on top of the problem as quickly as possible, infrastructure to transport good and people where they need to be, trained personnel to take on the various on the ground roles needed to isolate and treat patients and stop the spread of the disease. </p> <p>However, these things are both obvious and outside my area of expertise. I’m pretty sure there are people at the UN’s WHO, the CDC, and other major health related organizations, thinking about these things. </p> <p>But there is another aspect of preparation that I think is important. This is the way in which we misconceive Ebola or other diseases, because of a combination of incorrect thinking (about diseases), lack of information, and lack of experience. These misconceptions are usually found among the general public, and result from simply not knowing the science. But sometimes they arise among the medical researchers themselves, and result from not having enough research done, and not having enough experience with a disease. </p> <p>For example, during the Ebola pandemic, many people were on the edge of panic because they somehow *knew* that it was only a matter of time before Ebola became fully airborne, like horrid diseases seem to do rather quickly in their fictional form, in novels, in movies, or on TV. In fact, Ebola is highly unlikely to become easily transmitted by air <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2014/09/30/ebola-will-not-become-airborne-and-here-is-why/">for reasons I go in to here</a>. </p> <p>That is an example of uninformed but concerned non-experts getting it wrong. But, the “airborne” nature of of Ebola, or lack thereof, is actually less than perfectly understood by many in the health business. For example, we often think of Influenza as an airborne disease because it can be spread by coughing and sneezing. However, this common disease is probably almost never spread that way. Rather, it is spread by physical contact, with bodily fluids (which may have been coughed or sneezed at the start) from the nose or mouth going to the hand, then to another person’s hand, then to the recipient’s nose or mouth, possibly with some intervening step such as an object handled by the patient. So, while many may be concerned that Ebola could turn into something like the flu, if it did that, it still would not be especially airborne. If you want to look at an airborne disease, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2015/01/15/why-quarantine-for-measles-is-critical-and-quarantine-for-ebola-was-not/">check out measles</a>, which can apparently travel down the hall from one patient examining room to another, through the air, resulting in a new infection.</p> <p>It turns out that the categorization of modes of spread has been revised now and then and some feel that further revision would be appropriate, or at least, that everyone should be using a more nuanced and detailed method of describing how diseases can spread. A disease can spread through the air, in a sense, but not be truly airborne. But the distinction is critically important in dealing with a pandemic situation, or even a minor outbreak. </p> <div style="width: 310px;float:right;"><a href="/files/gregladen/files/2015/10/FightingPandemics_006_Breakthrough.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2015/10/FightingPandemics_006_Breakthrough-300x200.jpg" alt="Dr. Ian Crozier" width="300" height="200" class="size-medium wp-image-21700" /></a> From the New York Times (May 7, 2015):<br />When Dr. Ian Crozier was released from Emory University Hospital in October after a long, brutal fight with Ebola that nearly ended his life, his medical team thought he was cured. But less than two months later, he was back at the hospital with fading sight, intense pain and soaring pressure in his left eye.<br />Test results were chilling: The inside of Dr. Crozier’s eye was teeming with Ebola. </div> <p>The accepted belief at the start of the Ebola pandemic was that Ebola would not persist in a survivor beyond a certain number of days, so post-infection quarantine periods needed to be just so long. Even then, however, it was known that Ebola could persist in the sperm of infected males for a much longer period. This should have been a clue. By the end of the pandemic, it was understood that Ebola could actually persist in an infected individual for a much longer time. Long enough, perhaps, to attribute an outbreak to a person who had harbored the disease rather than a novel infection from its wild reservoir. This is a significant finding that not only changes how we address quarantine, but also, how we ask questions about the wild reservoir. </p> <p>A third area in which individuals making wrong assumptions can negatively impact an effort to address a new pandemic is in the locally variable beliefs about where infections come from, along side various mortuary practices that may be important to someone’s religion or belief system, but that enhance spread of the disease. I can not honestly characterize this set of local beliefs because, as an anthropologist who has worked in the Ebola region, I can tell you that belief systems are extremely variable there, with many different systems overlapping in space, within individual villages, and that even within the context of households or families, there is a great deal of individual variation. </p> <p>I have known families where five or six people living together had three or four entirely different sets of beliefs about important (and unimportant) things. You know this too. Does everyone at a major family gathering, or a get together at work or in your community, share all their basic beliefs? That is highly unlikely. Yet we tend to see people living in other lands, more often than not in developing regions, as being far more homogeneous than they really are. Then, when someone points out a belief system interfering with a scientifically based endeavor (such as a major public health disaster), the assumption is that this is a widespread, intractable, universal problem. There is, though, more diversity than that around your Thanksgiving table <em>and</em> in a typical West or Central African village. </p> <p>Sometimes these diverse beliefs emerge simply because different “tribal” groups all live near each other and traditional beliefs get thrown together when people, and this is very common, marry across those relatively artificial boundaries. But the most dramatic divergences in beliefs have to do with local reaction to systems, technologies, and practices, that come from the outside. This can be something simple like the best way to restore life to a nearly dead battery you were hoping to use in a radio, something more important like the best way to catch fish or wild game given the availability of key western goods like fishhooks and wire, to somewhat more bizarre arguments (in more remote areas) about what really is in those cans of foodstuffs that sometimes trickle in from Western sources. </p> <p>When a “traditional” population sticks firmly to their beliefs even though it harms them, that’s a story and it may get reported in the New York Times. We saw reports like that during the Ebola pandemic, reports about people refusing to go to clinics because they believed something about Ebola that simply wasn’t true. But, it is also possible for people to put aside their traditional beliefs and accept new knowledge, and change their minds. In my experience, this is the much more common result of interaction between traditional indigenous thinking and intrusive Western thinking. But those stories, where people learn new stuff, change their minds, and change their practices, usually don’t make news. So, our Western conception of the West African peoples who were afflicted with this pandemic is that a huge problem arises from folks sticking to their old and incorrect folklore. Maybe that is true at times, but I strongly suspect that this aspect of the problem was way overplayed by the press. </p> <p>So, here is what we have to do, aside from all that logistical planning (and fund raising) noted above. </p> <p><strong>More research.</strong> After many smaller outbreaks of Ebola over many years, the scientific and medical community was left with a number of important misconceptions about Ebola that might have been better known had there been more prior research. This must be assumed to be true of any disease that has pandemic potential but that has not developed to such a level so far. There needs to be a well funded, ongoing, international research program addressing emerging diseases that is proactive, addresses whatever research questions come along in good scientific tradition, as pure research rather than as a reaction to untoward events. </p> <p><strong>More education of the general public.</strong> Part of the problem in addressing a pandemic is the inappropriate response, often time and resource wasting, of the press and the public. This happens because the basic, and often rather simple, science needs to be taught fresh to reporters and those who consume the news each time something like this happens. After a decade and a half of major news agencies removing science bureaus, and the spread of anti-science sentiment largely for political reasons, we are paying a cost. If you watched any of the CDD or state health department press conferences at the time Ebola cases were popping up in the US, you will remember the difficulty officials and medical experts had in explaining the science to the reporters, and the often breathless and, frankly, foolish way many reporters were acting at those events. Those events were hardly remarked upon at the time, but the need to explain basic stuff to the reporters, and their poor level of preparation to understand these things, was shameful. But it is also fixable. </p> <p><strong>More education on the ground in areas that may be affected.</strong> Pandemics of this type may be thought of as more likely to emerge in tropical areas, but in fact, they can emerge elsewhere as well. Part of public health education should be to address proper public, community, family, and personal response to an infectious disease crisis, balancing between urgency and sensibility, to avoid undue panic or inappropriate responses when something does happen. </p> <p>It is especially important that populations in regions that may be affected by pandemics can prepare by laying a groundwork of education and new new thinking about what these diseases are and how to spot them and cope with them. </p> <p>Finally, Ebola is not the only pandemic causing horrid disease in the tropics, so the question at hand needs to be addressed generally. Moist equatorial Africa is not the only region where this sort of pandemic can develop. And, with climate change, the warmer regions of the world, where certain kinds of diseases seem to do better, are getting larger. </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Mon, 10/26/2015 - 02:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/uncategorized" hreflang="en">Uncategorized</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pandemic" hreflang="en">pandemic</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467466" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445843517"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks for the article. I suspect that a pandemic is in our immediate future, but that it will probably be some more familiar disease that has become resistant to the usual antibiotics. It will kill a lot more people than usual, but there won't be bodies piling up in the streets.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467466&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dq3uWbjHggAu_tBFq2knloky1_bgz4pxP9qyagqtllc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Donal (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1467466">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467467" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445877519"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good post!</p> <p>Can you tell us what pandemics are arising in peri-equatorial Central and South America, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Australia? </p> <p>Mark</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467467&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U5NvDHaQBsAT7J2ZXZJU0aPuYGzPTamgsJH08QXsfeg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Schooley MD (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1467467">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2015/10/26/rethinking-pandemics-like-ebola%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 26 Oct 2015 06:00:04 +0000 gregladen 33718 at https://scienceblogs.com Researchers use Ebola to study the news media’s role as a vector of fear https://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2015/06/25/researchers-use-ebola-to-study-the-news-medias-role-as-a-vector-of-fear <span>Researchers use Ebola to study the news media’s role as a vector of fear</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Analyzing online searches and social media activity has often been suggested as a way to track and maybe even predict the spread of diseases. And it’s a great idea — if it’s done right, it could offer public health workers real-time surveillance and a jumpstart at containing dangerous outbreaks. But there’s a hitch. How can we attempt to decipher between online activity triggered by the possibility of actual disease symptoms and online activity triggered by simple curiosity?</p> <p>That was the question Sherry Towers and her colleagues set out to answer. At the very least, they wanted to gain some deeper insights into what kind of variables were related to spikes in social media behavior. With an answer to a question like that, researchers who want to use social media activity to help monitor disease trends could better discern which activities were more likely to reflect actual illness and which activities were just people expressing concern online. And the handful of Ebola cases diagnosed in the U.S. last year presented the perfect opportunity.</p> <p>Towers, a research professor at the Simon A. Levin Mathematical, Computational and Modeling Sciences Center at Arizona State University, knew the likelihood was extremely low that any of the U.S.-based Google searches and tweets on Ebola would be related to actual symptoms of the virus. In turn, it was the ideal scenario to study what other types of variables — besides actual symptoms — led to spikes in online activity.</p> <p>“Many studies have shown that the spread of ideas in the population might be infectious,” Towers told me. “When Ebola was first identified in the U.S., it was very noticeable how the media exploded and lots was happening on social media. It struck me that people had attempted to use social media in the past to track the spread of disease, but the problem is how do you disentangle that from people who are just expressing concerns or interest? How do you get rid of the background?”</p> <p>To conduct the <a href="http://www.plosone.org/article/metrics/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0129179">study</a>, which was published this month in the journal <em>PLOS ONE</em>, Towers and her colleagues examined daily Ebola-related Internet searches and Twitter data in the U.S. over a period of six weeks. Quite fittingly, they then used a mathematical contagion model to determine if news coverage was a significant factor in online variations of Ebola-related activity. TV news coverage data was based on the daily number of Ebola-related news videos appearing on two major networks. And according to the study, the researchers did indeed find “evidence of a contagion.”</p> <p>That contagion was the news, which inspired tens of thousands of Ebola-related tweets and Internet searches with each news clip. In fact, the study found that trends in Ebola news reporting explained nearly all the variations in online activity. In other words, between 65 percent and 76 percent of the variance in Ebola-related online activity fit within the parameters of the news media contagion model.</p> <p>“We were actually surprised at how much the variation followed temporal patterns in the news media,” Towers said. “It showed that what’s causing people to tweet was not so much independent thought or independently talking with one another. It was driven by the media.”</p> <p>Towers and her study co-authors from Arizona State University, Purdue University and Oregon State University write:</p> <blockquote><p>The vast majority of published digital epidemiology results show a positive correlation between digital data and the temporal evolution of epidemics or outbreaks; but what typically are not seen are the analyses that show no significant correlation, likely due to the “file drawer” effect where uninteresting or null results simply are not published. Indeed, several of the authors can attest to the fact that use of Twitter data to predict outbreaks is fraught with difficulties (unpublished data), and accounting for potential sources of bias is extraordinarily difficult. However, in this new age of readily accessible, and rapidly evolving, temporal and geospatial information in social media, digital epidemiology has a hopeful future as a tool to detect newly emerging infectious diseases and track the spread of established diseases.</p></blockquote> <p>Towers told me that contagion models of disease are being used more and more in the social sciences to track the spread of ideas and to help determine if people are “infecting” each other with the urge to tweet or search for a particular topic online or whether people are being “infected” by an outside source. If you can use mathematical models to better understand the dynamics of people’s online behavior, you can increase the likelihood of being able to use the online behavior as likely indicators of disease spread, she said.</p> <p>“We used the model to explain how Ebola interest proliferated in the social media world,” Towers said. “And it turns out the vector is the news media.”</p> <p>However, Towers did note that the model explored in her study would be most applicable to emerging diseases with which people are unfamiliar, as opposed to diseases such as the flu, which don’t always make a big news splash.</p> <p>To read a full copy of the Ebola media study, visit <em><a href="http://www.plosone.org/article/metrics/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0129179">PLOS ONE</a></em>.</p> <p><em>Kim Krisberg is a freelance public health writer living in Austin, Texas, and has been writing about public health for more than a decade.</em></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/kkrisberg" lang="" about="/author/kkrisberg" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">kkrisberg</a></span> <span>Thu, 06/25/2015 - 13:18</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/education" hreflang="en">education</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-general" hreflang="en">Public Health - General</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/research" hreflang="en">Research</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/epidemiology" hreflang="en">epidemiology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/health-communications" hreflang="en">health communications</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mathematics" hreflang="en">Mathematics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/media" hreflang="en">Media</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/news-media" hreflang="en">news media</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/social-media" hreflang="en">Social Media</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/education" hreflang="en">education</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/research" hreflang="en">Research</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873702" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1436215785"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>During the African ebola outbreak, the UN were confiscating bottles of colloidal silver that makeshift hospitals were giving the patients. The funny thing is that it was actually helping some of the patients. Bet you will not hear that story on the evening news.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873702&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eadzpuIG_vdl3ff35tvf6PYZDf62niR4v7b8xvGRhIQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 06 Jul 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873702">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1873703" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1436215890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/047101_Ebola_colloidal_silver_government_seizure.html">http://www.naturalnews.com/047101_Ebola_colloidal_silver_government_sei…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1873703&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xrSACFAmyaVlKS4vXnFJ-KBriw172suIoMoYLubygqA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 06 Jul 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1873703">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/thepumphandle/2015/06/25/researchers-use-ebola-to-study-the-news-medias-role-as-a-vector-of-fear%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:18:34 +0000 kkrisberg 62389 at https://scienceblogs.com Worth reading: Older Americans, unplanned births, and workers' fights https://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2015/03/09/worth-reading-older-americans-unplanned-births-and-workers-fights <span>Worth reading: Older Americans, unplanned births, and workers&#039; fights</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A few of the recent pieces I've liked:</p> <p>Two related pieces at ReportingonHealth.org: Rita Beamish, "<a href="http://www.reportingonhealth.org/fellowships/projects/older-americans-act-limps-along-50">Older Americans Act limps along at 50</a>" and Ryan White, "<a href="http://www.reportingonhealth.org/2015/03/04/intensive-program-keeps-elderly-home-out-nursing-home">Intensive program keeps elderly at home out of nursing home</a>"</p> <p>Gillian B. White in The Atlantic: <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/unplanned-births-another-outcome-of-economic-inequality/386743/">Unplanned Births: Another Outcome of Economic Inequality?</a></p> <p>Mike Paarlberg in the Washington City Paper: <a href="http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/46933/workers-fights-unpaid-wages-uncompensated-injuries-and-unjust-firings-a/">Workers' Fights</a> ("Unpaid wages, uncompensated injuries, and unjust firings: A look at the margins of the DC labor market")</p> <p>Nikole Hannah-Jones in Politico Magzine: <a href="http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/letter-from-black-america-police-115545.html#.VPx1JSmcS1k">A Letter from Black America: Yes, we fear the police. Here's why.</a></p> <p>Erika Check Hayden in Nature: <a href="http://www.nature.com/news/maternal-health-ebola-s-lasting-legacy-1.17036">Maternal health: Ebola's lasting legacy</a></p> <p>And <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2015/03/05/npr-and-propublic-provide-reality-check-on-us-workers-comp-system/">Celeste already blogged about this one</a>, but the excellent and terrifying ProPublica-NPR series <a href="http://www.propublica.org/series/workers-compensation">Insult to Injury: America's Vanishing Worker Protections</a> is a wake-up call to anyone who assumes the workers' comp system will support you if you're injured on the job. Simultaneously with this series' publicaiton and airing, OSHA released the report <a href="http://www.dol.gov/osha/report/20150304-inequality.pdf">Adding Inequality to Injury: The Costs of Failing to Protect Workers on the Job</a>, and <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/04/the-workers-compensation-system-is-broken-and-its-driving-people-into-poverty/">Lydia DePillis covered it for Wonkblog</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/lborkowski" lang="" about="/author/lborkowski" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lborkowski</a></span> <span>Mon, 03/09/2015 - 06:44</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health-general" hreflang="en">Public Health - General</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/aging" hreflang="en">aging</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/day-laborers" hreflang="en">day laborers</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/policing" hreflang="en">policing</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/wage-theft" hreflang="en">wage theft</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/workers-compensation" hreflang="en">workers&#039; compensation</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/thepumphandle/2015/03/09/worth-reading-older-americans-unplanned-births-and-workers-fights%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 09 Mar 2015 10:44:15 +0000 lborkowski 62312 at https://scienceblogs.com Why quarantine for measles is critical...and quarantine for Ebola was not https://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2015/01/15/why-quarantine-for-measles-is-critical-and-quarantine-for-ebola-was-not <span>Why quarantine for measles is critical...and quarantine for Ebola was not</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Measles has come to the <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2015/01/13/disneyland-measles-outbreak-it-is-indeed-a-small-world-after-all/">happiest place on Earth</a>. As of this writing, a total of <a href="http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-clinic-measles-20150114-story.html">32 cases</a> of measles have been linked to Disneyland visits that took place between December 17<sup>th</sup> and 20<sup>th</sup>. About 75% of the cases identified to date were not vaccinated, either because they chose to forgo vaccines or because they were too young, and <a href="http://www.latimes.com/local/orangecounty/la-me-disneyland-measles-20150114-story.html#page=1">at least 6 have been hospitalized</a>.</p> <p>A measles outbreak is a public health disaster, which can cost into the <a href="https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/each-case-of-measles-costs-33000-there-were-over-600-cases-in-2014/">millions of dollars</a> in health resources. You can be sure that public health workers in California and beyond are working overtime trying to identify cases, educate those who were possibly exposed about how dangerous measles can be, and implement practices so that those who may have been exposed to measles don't further put others at risk. This includes avoiding public places, and practices such as calling ahead to a doctor's offices so possible cases can be ushered into private rooms rather than languishing in the waiting room. A clinic in La Mesa <a href="http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-clinic-measles-20150114-story.html">recently closed</a> because of a potential measles exposure. An unvaccinated South Pasadena woman, Ylsa Tellez, <a href="http://abc7.com/health/south-pasadena-refuses-quarantine-after-sister-gets-measles/474623/">received a quarantine order</a> after her younger sister was diagnosed with measles. Tellez is fighting the order and “taking immune-boosting supplements” instead.</p> <p>Why such extreme measures on the part of public health?</p> <p>Measles is highly contagious. It's spread by air, and so contagious that if an infected person enters a room, leaves, and an unvaccinated person enters the room hours later, they still can contract measles. Remember a few months back, when that figure was circulating showing that <a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/02/352983774/no-seriously-how-contagious-is-ebola">Ebola wasn't particularly easy to spread</a>? Well, measles very much is. The <a href="http://practice.sph.umich.edu/micphp/epicentral/basic_reproduc_rate.php" target="_blank">basic reproductive rate</a> for Ebola is around 2, meaning on average each infected person will cause an additional 2 infections in susceptible individuals.</p> <p>And what’s the reproductive number for measles?</p> <p>Eighteen. Eight. Teen. I’m not exaggerating when I say that it is literally one of the most contagious diseases we know of.  On average, if you have 10 susceptible individuals exposed to a measles patient, <a href="http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2014/chapter-3-infectious-diseases-related-to-travel/measles-rubeola">9 will end up getting sick</a>.</p> <p>How do we break the cycle of transmission? Vaccination is one way--if one has been vaccinated for measles, chances are very low (but not zero, because nothing is perfect) that they will contract measles. Beyond vaccination, the next-best intervention is to keep those who are infected away from everyone else. The way we do this is by quarantining them.</p> <p>In public health terms, <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/" target="_blank">quarantine </a>specifically refers to the separation of individuals who have been exposed to an infectious agent, *<strong>but are not yet ill themselves</strong>,* from the rest of society. That way, they’re unable to spread the infection to others. Quarantine makes the most sense when individuals can transmit the infection before they realize they’re sick, which is exactly the case with measles. Infected individuals can spread the virus <a href="http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2014/chapter-3-infectious-diseases-related-to-travel/measles-rubeola">fully 4 days</a> before the characteristic rash starts to appear, and continue to spread it for another 4 or so days after the rash begins—potentially infecting a lot of people. The problem is, like Ylsa Tellez, they’ll feel fine while they’re out there in the general population. They don’t even have to be coughing or sneezing to spread it (symptoms which can appear prior to the rash)—they <a href="http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/diseases/measles">can just be breathing</a> (something many of us like to do on a regular basis), and still contaminate their environment with the measles virus.</p> <p>The difference in transmissibility also makes measles a very different situation from Ebola. Public health officials <a href="http://bangordailynews.com/2014/10/30/health/maine-health-experts-condemn-quarantines-for-ebola-aid-workers/">almost universally condemned quarantine</a> for Ebola exposures, for two reasons: 1) Ebola wasn’t highly transmissible, and  <a href="http://www.virology.ws/2014/09/18/what-we-are-not-afraid-to-say-about-ebola-virus/">isn’t airborne</a> like measles is; and 2) because Ebola isn’t efficiently transmitted until late in the infection when the patient is very ill and likely bedridden. Quarantining Ebola patients was a political stunt, not a public health necessity.</p> <p>This is why states have the <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutLawsRegulationsQuarantineIsolation.html">legal authority to enforce quarantine</a> for infectious diseases: it reduces the risk that asymptomatic, potential disease-spreaders will act as “<a href="http://history1900s.about.com/od/1900s/a/typhoidmary.htm">Typhoid Marys</a>” (another asymptomatic, deadly-disease-spreader), which is in the public interest. And while unvaccinated Tellez feels “attacked” and her mother thinks people are being “not nice” when they demand that Tellez submit to quarantine, their choice not to vaccinate has already put many others at risk of disease and, and is resulting in the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM/photos/a.414675905269091.96547.414643305272351/838615156208495/?type=1&amp;permPage=1">quarantine of many other exposed</a> individuals as well. In the 2011 Utah measles outbreak, <a href="http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/IDSA/29195">184 were quarantined</a> and thousands of contacts traced, at an expense of approximately $300,000. The Disneyland outbreak has already spread into 4 states (California, Utah, Washington, and Colorado). Quarantine is one of our tools to stem the epidemic. In our recent outbreak among Ohio Amish, <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/01/measles-amish-ohio/11933033/" target="_blank">most willingly submitted to quarantine</a>, and over 10,000 doses of the MMR vaccine were administered. Quarantine is undoubtedly a difficult prospect to face, but perhaps if Tellez and others had been vaccinated in the first place, they, and we, wouldn't be in this situation.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/aetiology" lang="" about="/aetiology" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tsmith</a></span> <span>Thu, 01/15/2015 - 10:06</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/general-epidemiology" hreflang="en">General Epidemiology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-disease" hreflang="en">infectious disease</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/outbreak" hreflang="en">outbreak</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/policy-0" hreflang="en">Policy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/anti-vaccine" hreflang="en">Anti-Vaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/disneyland" hreflang="en">Disneyland</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/measles" hreflang="en">measles</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mmr" hreflang="en">MMR</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quarantine" hreflang="en">quarantine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccines" hreflang="en">vaccines</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/infectious-disease" hreflang="en">infectious disease</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/outbreak" hreflang="en">outbreak</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/policy-0" hreflang="en">Policy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/public-health" hreflang="en">public health</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844579" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1421346907"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't get it. This woman saw her sister sick with measles. She has to realize what a nasty disease it is. She may not understand precisely how contagious it is (much more than most cold viruses) but if she's a graduate student, she should be capable of looking that up.</p> <p>And, why do California's colleges not have vaccine requirements?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844579&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I3w01RXfWE9vOeV3FWu1qEVkPqIBIAm8qnPVllR9crM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Young CC Prof (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844579">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844580" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1421348792"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Tara,<br /> Excellent piece. Particularly liked your points on the reproductive number.<br /> "Eighteen. Eight. Teen. I’m not exaggerating when I say that it is literally one of the most contagious diseases we know of." Perfect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844580&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="--BzyZEVJ1gXGQ7NEPEMCZ9k4d5EKqHlQ32jnb1Wo2M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Herriman (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844580">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844581" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1421350751"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The attention from this person refusing to be quarantined highlights just how much work goes into containing these outbreaks. It also highlights another risk of not being vaccinated - having to miss school or work every time someone around you has measles or another vaccine preventable disease.</p> <p>Amazingly, there is another measles case in Orange County right now that is thought to be unrelated to the Disneyland outbreak. An unvaccinated teen at Huntington Beach High School. I wonder how many intentionally unvaccinated students and teachers will need to be quarantined at the school...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844581&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7a67QieraPjLcLHOaDKlnZQeHLM-YRj3oMA9t2y2gS8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vincent Iannelli, MD (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844581">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844582" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1421363080"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The bit about ebola not being transmissible til patient is very ill...then how did Writebol get infected? She was not around such patients...and Dr Khan is said to have gotten ebola from a nurse with whom he had just finished a shift with; he touched the man's skin...a man who was not at dead til days later.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844582&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="becoipsEkdYrMK-Dz_Pyjf8uwBqa5Q5LwDdVILv2UDc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">B R Wilde (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844582">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844583" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1421382642"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>These people should be sued to recover costs incurred related to their negligence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844583&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4XI6NxEsKxpX6EsjmyStj-ahgu8EdvTWYMCX6tDZfQo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marian (not verified)</span> on 15 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844583">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844584" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1421567238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Agreed, full civil liability for those who willfully refuse both immunization and quarantine. And eliminate "personal belief exemptions," otherwise I want an exemption from the law of gravity.</p> <p>In order to make quarantine stick, we need two other things:</p> <p>One, legislation to prevent people losing their jobs in the event they are subject to quarantine. All that's needed here is to insert a few more words into existing legislation that protects workers' jobs if they are called for jury duty. </p> <p>Two, funding and requirement for county sheriffs' departments, that are presumably responsible for enforcing quarantine orders, to provide each quarantined person or household with regular grocery/provisions delivery at no cost to them. (A close friend / coworker and I self-quarantine when we have so much as a cold, but we're geeks who telecommute, we're in biz for ourselves, and we each have sufficient no-cook food on hand (routine "preps" for earthquake etc.). Those who don't shouldn't be made to go hungry in their own homes.) </p> <p>With those two items in place, quarantine would be easily bearable. There would be exactly no excuse for people to refuse quarantine, and those who did could be dealt with strictly.</p> <p>As for the issue of people feeling socially isolated, there are telephones and email, which are better than a locked hospital ward with neither.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844584&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2aAhKMmB-Mx55WrkBNL3AkL7QxZt0sDbzM7_Z9fUcqQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">G (not verified)</span> on 18 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844584">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844585" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1426408774"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Is Measles then considered a more deadly disease than Ebola because 'Measles is highly contagious' but Ebola isn't 'particularly easy to spread'?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844585&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N3zc4NuuA3uxDBirdiSyAVAmcr5hKEi5GwPLBYZW08k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kirsten (not verified)</span> on 15 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844585">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844586" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428336902"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Is Measles then considered more contagious than Ebola?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844586&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u-uO-0NmjzLM1ZkxrTG_4F9mvYAOiqfzqnbVRUfuPZE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kirsten Dingle (not verified)</span> on 06 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844586">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844587" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1429106283"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A family member's friend contracted Rubella (German Measles) during her pregnancy, and since she was never vaccinated against any disease, she became severely ill. Unfortunately, as is well-known with this disease during pregnancy, her baby was born with deafness, a birth defect.</p> <p>Not only do you put yourself at risk when the choice is made not to get vaccinated, but the effects it can have on others can be drastic. I think people should be fully aware and informed about the consequences of not being vaccinated and make their decision accordingly.</p> <p>I can understand that some people believe that if their ancestors were well off without vaccinations, they will be as well. But one thing that should be kept in mind is that along with medicine, micro-bodies have progressed too, and what might have worked 50 years ago might not work today.</p> <p>u15054552</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844587&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aIuqe274ycsG7qevwNWANQ0Jhl3StI7KTXUz5NVtUFA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lisa vD (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844587">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1844588" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1429286521"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Measles are extremely dangerous, and most people are uneducated on the importance of preventing it. Another way that can have a positive impact on the community is to send teams to the schools all around the country to promote vaccinations of children at an early age, as well as information on why it is so important to do so.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1844588&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j2eZKUEAV6kce-tL1tkWrpSxj7U0Qqwg8MBQis2KKPA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mia (15127444) (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1844588">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/aetiology/2015/01/15/why-quarantine-for-measles-is-critical-and-quarantine-for-ebola-was-not%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:06:07 +0000 tsmith 58133 at https://scienceblogs.com The invasion of well-meaning quacks into West Africa continues apace, part three https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/11/28/the-invasion-of-well-meaning-quacks-into-west-africa-continues-apace-part-three <span>The invasion of well-meaning quacks into West Africa continues apace, part three</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><div align="center"> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2014/11/quackinvasion.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2014/11/quackinvasion.jpg" alt="quackinvasion" width="236" height="236" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-9187" /></a> </div> <p>I hope my U.S. readers have all had a happy Thanksgiving. Today has been known at least since the mid-1970s as Black Friday, the busiest shopping day of the year. Whether it's still true or not, given the relentless proliferation, progression, and metastasis—yes, the use of terms related to cancer is intentional—of holiday sales right up until Christmas, I don't know. I do know that I plan on going nowhere near any store bigger than a convenience store until next week if I can possibly help it. I'm also sitting back and congratulating myself on one of the smartest decisions I've made in a very long time, namely to take this whole week off as a "staycation." True, I did go to Skepticon to give a talk last weekend, but instead of the usual situation I find myself in after arriving home on a Sunday after such jaunts of having to dive straight back into work, I just chilled out for three days, with three more days after Thanksgiving to recover.</p> <!--more--><p>Consequently, I hope you will forgive me if this is simply be an update of a story I've been following for a while, namely the story of the hapless and ridiculous homeopaths who claim they can cure Ebola using homeopathy. The reason I can't resist is that the day before Thanksgiving there appeared an article that is the most detailed and comprehensive description of the antics of these homeopaths that I've yet come across. Some of it confirms <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/11/20/the-invasion-of-well-meaning-quacks-into-west-africa-continues-apace/">what I've discussed before</a> based on <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2839577/Homeopathy-cure-Ebola-Doctors-attack-armchair-intellectuals-World-Health-Organisation-refuse-let-treat-deadly-virus-snake-venom-remedy.html">previous news reports from the UK</a>. Some of it gives more of an insight into what happened. For instance, there's this bit, which suggests that the homeopaths who went to West Africa (most of whom were also physicians, to the eternal shame of the profession) were—shall we say?—less than honest about their intent. The trip was organized by the Liga Medicorum Homeopathica Internationalis, a major institution for homeopathy advocacy, and a German group Freundes Liberias, whose purpose is to promote cooperation between Germany and Liberia. Apparently, Freundes Liberias raised funds for the trip without any mention that the doctors it was <a href="https://www.vice.com/read/treating-ebola-with-homeopathy-393">planning to send were also homeopaths</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Freundes Liberias raised donations for the trip with this campaign. The page talks about a "team of 20 international doctors," but makes no mention of the fact that they will be operating only as homeopaths. This squares with the fact that the Liberian medical authorities backed the trip when they thought it was a "team of doctors," and were then shocked to learn about the homeopathy. </p></blockquote> <p>The explanations coming from the two organizations are conflicting:</p> <blockquote><p> When asked for comment, Thomas Köppig, head of Freundes Liberias, was emphatic:</p> <p>"When LMHI first contacted Freunde Liberias asking if the association would be willing to support a trip, I received the four CVs and confirmation that all members of the group were physicians and obviously experienced in working in disaster areas. Furthermore, LMHI confirmed that the doctors would work as regular doctors and only secondarily as homeopaths."</p> <p>The response from LMHI is rather less clear, claiming that the doctors "were not able to treat Ebola patients do [ sic] [to] some diplomatic problems... We are not asking for donations for the Ebola relief action any more because the situation changed."</p></blockquote> <p>The homeopaths, however, had other ideas. They were definitely planning on going to Africa to treat Ebola with homeopathy:</p> <blockquote><p> When this story broke, Karen Allen of Homeopaths Without Borders deleted<a href="https://archive.today/fSfE4">this message</a> from Dr. Ortrud Lindemann, one of the homeopaths in Liberia, from her Facebook page. Homeopath Dr. Edouard Broussalian also deleted a post from his own site that claimed the mission would ensure "the makers of experimental vaccines will have to pack their bags." In fact, there was a real flurry of deleted pages regarding the mission from people connected to LMHI, which is never a particularly good sign.</p> <p>Dr. Hiltner himself is very open: "This was a golden opportunity to treat something that conventional medicine couldn't," he says. "Not only to help the people, but to show homeopathy works... There's got to be that day that conventional medicine will respect homeopathy—both have their strengths, both have their weaknesses; they need to stop calling each other names." </p></blockquote> <p>Apparently, to homeopaths pointing out that homeopathy is pseudoscience based on prescientific ideas of vitalism and a pre-germ theory understanding of human physiology and disease is "calling them names. The author of this <em>Vice</em> piece seems rather taken with Dr. Richard Hiltner, noting that he's a nice guy who's been in practice for 44 years and that he volunteered his own time and money (he paid for his own flight) to head to Brussels, where the international team of homeopaths was assembled to fly to Monrovia. Oh, sure, the article says, Hiltner is into some "wacky shit," like iridology and medical astrology, in addition to the homeopathy but is characterized thusly, "Essentially, his heart is in the right place, even if it's making him do some very silly stuff."</p> <p>I reject this explanation. Hiltner's heart might be in the right place, but what we know thus far suggests that he was either complicit in the deception (i.e., he knew that the trip was being advertised and sold as a bunch of doctors coming over to help, with no mention of homeopathy) or he was a dupe who had no idea that he wouldn't be allowed to practice homeopathy once he arrived in Liberia. Take your pick. In the meantime, what this whole sorry incident tells me is just how deluded homeopaths are.</p> <p>As the article concludes, "sneaking a PR stunt for homeopathy into an epidemic under the cover of sending medical help is really pretty tawdry." No doubt, but why is anyone surprised? It's not as though homeopaths haven't done this sort of thing before in past disasters. The difference here is that the danger level is much higher, because they're now trying to treat a deadly infectious disease with their magic water.</p> <p>OK, I think I've beat this topic to death. Next week, I'll be back at blogging my usual topics with a vengeance. Remember, I'm rapidly approaching my tenth anniversary of starting this blog; it's only two weeks away now. I feel so old.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Fri, 11/28/2014 - 04:10</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy" hreflang="en">Homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/popular-culture" hreflang="en">Popular Culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ebola-0" hreflang="en">ebola</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/freundes-liberias" hreflang="en">Freundes Liberias</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy-0" hreflang="en">homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/liberia" hreflang="en">Liberia</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/liga-medicorum-homeopathica-internationalis" hreflang="en">Liga Medicorum Homeopathica Internationalis</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/monrovia" hreflang="en">Monrovia</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/richard-hiltner" hreflang="en">Richard Hiltner</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/thomas-koppig" hreflang="en">Thomas Köppig</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275952" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417168642"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congratulations on ten years (in case I miss it)!</p> <p>As an always tired, old before my time person, I love the days after Thanksgiving. I can direct Mr Woo and my ravenous son to the leftovers and skip cooking for a bit. </p> <p>Should we be too surprised to learn this? I have come to suspect that one aspect of true-believerism is the constant anticipation of the day when the magic will be proven, and their faith vindicated, that last, big, "So there!"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275952&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MFTLzc_Rjd5s1V3uBEGR78B3IVyl9wBXhB7kFOYsMgk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275952">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275953" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417169283"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I stay away from the stores this weekend, too.</p> <p>There is plenty of leftover food for the sons to enjoy. One just fixed himself a breakfast of turkey, mashed potatoes and gravy!</p> <p>But, I may have to brave at least one store to get some parts to fix my wife's computer :(</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275953&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ucWXyR8g7E-XqADf8ZITlNAarxHBpSlaEb3fDmAE-x8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">squirrelelite (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275953">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275954" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417169829"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I have never braved a Black Friday crowd except for a few unfortunate years working retail. If I could get by with not shopping anywhere but the closest town (2500 people), I would do it. As it is, I don't expect to go to the bigger town more than once or twice.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275954&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u2ww4Lk316EYWpz6QPAMlBc2n4jMEsQvo-WvW-_9wpA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275954">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275955" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417173023"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac, you're not old- you're SEASONED**.</p> <p>-btw- you appear to be remarkably well-preserved*** which ( as I know only too well due to intense observation of myself and various cohorts and relatives) is either a mark of purity of intention or sun avoidance. Possibly both.</p> <p>** insert mandatory reference to appropriate herb/spice<br /> *** insert obligatory reference to formaldehyde etc</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275955&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q1kc885lxfp371X2sI6RhboCL6-gzhl0mcd878-Wt0A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275955">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275956" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417178137"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>On Pepijn van Erp's blog<br /> <a href="http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2014/11/top-level-homeopaths-behind-ebola-mission-in-liberia/">http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2014/11/top-level-homeopaths-behind-ebola-mi…</a><br /> the name of a German couple is mentioned. Perhaps the people of Liberia are better served with Kölsch (beer from Cologne), than with mr. and mrs. Kölsch.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275956&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DW8_50WYTCoOHZVg3poX6PEXMEUOTjjusDZX_NZMe3E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275956">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275957" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417181211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm surprised I didn't think to look for this predictable passenger on the EVD bandwagon earlier: <a href="http://cannabisdigest.ca/cbd-protective-ebola-virus/">CBD Protective Against Ebola Virus</a>.</p> <blockquote><p>Because cannabis is so very safe especially under doctor supervision, I believe it is crucial for the medical community to start human trials on survivability of Ebola infected patients regardless of the political restraints.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275957&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5BveUpIo6N0m14iO2_TLkBYY9KmBLYoNd6aGIuUfJmA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275957">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275958" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417181408"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“Essentially, his heart is in the right place, even if it’s making him do some very silly stuff.”</p></blockquote> <p>I'm not sure "being friendly" is the top quality any expert should have. What about actual competence?<br /> There is an old saying about being better to have a smart enemy than a silly friend. </p> <p>@ Denice</p> <blockquote><p>Orac, you’re not old- you’re SEASONED</p></blockquote> <p>That brings back memories. I once purchased a packaged meal of seasoned chicken.<br /> The package was annotated in both English and French. The French translation was, as you would guess, something like "poulet vétéran".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275958&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lt-41c22CimxM3ZpT_WGsRGkOxfCnwDfkhUR28Erlls"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275958">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275959" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417182177"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The author of this Vice piece seems rather taken with Dr. Richard Hiltner</p></blockquote> <p>Not so much with accurate details, though:</p> <p>"The Ebola virus kills you by essentially dissolving the walls of your veins, making you bleed to death from the inside in a massive internal hemorrhage."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275959&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3aJS0wlKCYImLrrnY3P90de5JQ8C95JbKxPV1SnE9tE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275959">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275960" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417182553"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Helianthus:</p> <p>Ha! I really appreciate translations of that sort- believe it or not, I'm on my way to the Japanese mall which is rife with them.<br /> I have a great need of food court-made Japanese soup.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275960&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TPu7ew9QMfnYliVNFKHdMeWMkJh3GS_NXnSzSZPfdtM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275960">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275961" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417183183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave, have a look at this:</p> <p><a href="http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8275.msg19303#msg19303">http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8275.msg19303#msg1…</a></p> <p>Already in August 2014 (or even earlier) the WHO rejected homeopathy and other “alternative” nonsense because such quackery had led ebola infections to cross the border of guinea and caused the outbreak in Sierra Leone!</p> <p>The mechanism of quackery to spread the disease already at that time was known, and warnings were made just because of that.</p> <p>To go to Africa to spread homeopathy is nothing else but to go there and spread ebola. No one involved can push aside the guilt. No one!</p> <p>Further: The people in Africa suffer from a disastrous shortage of medicaments and medical personnel. The LMHI and other homeopaths’ organizations and persons involved do know that, and they aggressively exploit the emergency situation of the Africans.</p> <p>The Africans grab for the last straw. They MUST keep a smiling face despite knowing that they are defrauded. The Africans die. To abuse and exploit dying people is one of the worst crimes ever.</p> <p>This crime is committed by leading German homeopaths. They do know what they do. And they WILLFULLY do it. And they go on doing it. They already prepare a second “expedition” to Africa.</p> <p>Homeopathy is murder.</p> <p>As already is pointed out: The whole intent of the homeopaths was to "prove" homeopathy works, and then boast with their "success". They wanted to commit a fait accompli, like they did in Haiti. Edouard Broussalian, now one of the four, was in Haiti in 2011, extra, with other homeopaths, to apply homeopathy to the cholera-stricken patients. Later he boasted with a grand success. But fact is: he defrauded. </p> <p>Broussalian wrote an article about the Haiti incident. This is the translation to English (there also is one to German, hosted on an esoteric sales web-site), saying:</p> <p> [*quote*]<br /> ———————————————-<br /> “at the end of our stay, we were no longer providing new patients with an<br /> infusion, but immediately gave them the phosphorus spray.”<br /> ———————————————-<br /> [*/quote*]<br /> more:<br /> <a href="http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/833.htm">http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/833.htm</a></p> <p>The standard claim of homeopaths is do be "complementary", "in addition" to "school medicine". But one can see here that this claim is a lie. The standard treatment is willfully denied, and instead a homeopathic "spray" is used. I never before read of such a thing as a homeopathic spray. </p> <p>It is a good idea to delve into the previous "heroic deeds" of Broussalian, Durge, Hiltner and Lindemann. </p> <p>Broussalian already messed up in Haiti.<br /> Hiltner messes up with astrology to choose homeopathic remedies.<br /> Lindemann is an antivaxxer, and Broussalian also hates vaccines. </p> <p>Number 4 of the gang is a special case: a "doctor of homeopathic medicine and surgery" - or something else of the sort. But no REAL medical doctor. </p> <p>Check out her professional (?) education (?). she was on a college in India which produces bachelors, but not medical doctors. Here someone has done some footwork:</p> <p>"Indian PM appoints Minister for Genocide"<br /> <a href="http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/851.htm">http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/851.htm</a></p> <p>The catch is: these homeopaths have no education in pharmacy, only in homeopathy. So Medha Durge neither is a qualified medical doctor nor is any of the 4 qualified with having experience with handling epidemics. They just DO NOT HAVE a qualification for the task. </p> <p>As a comparison: two member of the Universitätsklinikums Bonn (Germany) will go to West Africa to do some research there. Look at THEIR expertise:</p> <p><a href="http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8375.msg19305#msg19305">http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8375.msg19305#msg1…</a></p> <p>THAT is a big difference, I dare say. </p> <p>The Daily Mail has two articles online about the Ganta incident, with the second one showing a photo the house front of Durge's "medical office". It looks more like a shabby peddler's hut than a medical office. </p> <p>So we have 4 homeopaths, not being qualified for the task, willed to do homeopathy, supported by unknowing donors who were cheated into believing that a) the group members were fully qualified medical doctors who b) would do sound medical work. </p> <p>This leaves a broad range of questions to ask the people in the background: </p> <p>the LMHI<br /> the "Freunde Liberias"<br /> the Honorary Consul of Liberia in Leipzig, Michael Kölsch,<br /> leading members of the Deutscher Zentralverein homöopathischer Ärzte (DZVhAe)<br /> the head office of the United Methodist Church in the USA<br /> the mission office of the United methodist Church in Liberia<br /> the administration of the hospital of the United methodist Church in Ganta</p> <p>Who pulled the wires between the LMHI and the DZVhAe? Who enabled the whole thing in Ganta?</p> <p>Look: The idea was created in some places AND THEN escalated in the LMHI and the DZVhAe. AND THEN the homeopaths knocked on whose door? On the door of the Honorary Consul, because he is married with the treasurer of the DZVhAe, who not only is doing homeopathy. No! Monika Kölsch offers "Telehomöopathie", something which I consider in essence to be nothing but the (of course) forbidden distant healing (my dictionary does not know an English expression for that).</p> <p>Putting together the puzzle you can follow the first discussions and talks in web forums, then calls for support and money, even newspaper articles in German newspapers, asking for donations. AND in the background things are routed via the Leipzig connection to Ganta. Why Ganta? Because Michael Kölsch has connections. </p> <p>If you dig deeper you will find a Siegfried Ziegler mentioned, who is a retired hospital manager in Chemnitz. Bingo! Ziegler was in that very hospital in Ganta from 1974-197 as CEO. So it is he who had the FIRST contact, it is he who has since then had the strong contacts with politicians in Liberia. </p> <p>If someone retires in 2012, short over 60, how old was he in 1974? How do all these pieces fit together? Very simple: Siegfried Ziegler is a member of the Methodist Church. </p> <p>The whole affair is a combination of a church reaching from the USA to Liberia, and of homeopaths having contacts all around the globe, from USA and India deep into the heart of Europe, BOTH GROUPS being trained in fiddling behind the curtains AND in cheating with language AND in covering up. </p> <p>See the reactions now: nothing but a try to cover up. Their fait accompli was crushed the very moment some receivers of the LMHI emails published the email by Ortrud Lindemann, laying open the real intentions, and showing not only the names of the four, but also the names of the background eminences. </p> <p>Look at Michael Kölsch's description how he went to Liberia in 2012:</p> <p>"Bericht über eine Unternehmerreise nach Liberia im März 2012"<br /> <a href="http://www.liberia.michaelkoelsch.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Bericht_ueber_eine_Unternehmerreise1.pdf">http://www.liberia.michaelkoelsch.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Bericht…</a></p> <p>The important part:</p> <p>[*QUOTE*]<br /> -----------------------------------------------------<br /> In der Gerlib Klinik treffe ich mit fast 30 minütiger Verspätung ein, was mir Leid tut. Man erwartet mich am Eingang und begleitet mich zu Frau Gieraths-Nimene, der Gründerin und Eigentümerin der Klinik. Ich treffe eine sehr beeindruckende Deutsche, die mich herzlich begrüßt und mir gerne Ihre Klinik präsentiert. Ich sehe wartende Kranke in einem neu gebauten Gebäudekomplex, eine verletzte Frau, die soeben einen Autounfall hatte, in einem anderen Raum ist eine junge Frau dabei ,Zwillingen das Leben zu schenken, in wieder einem anderen Behandlungsraum liegen Malariapatienten. Zwei wichtige medizinische Geräte sind defekt was problematisch ist, da es noch keinen medizinischen Wartungsdienst in Monrovia gibt und eine Reparatur in Deutschland zeitaufwändig und teuer ist. Frau Gieraths-Nimene hat die Klinik vor dem Krieg zusammen mit ihrem Liberianischen Ehemann gegründet. Nach dem Tod ihres Mannes führt sie das Haus alleine. Es freut mich, dass sie der Homöopathie sehr aufgeschlossen gegenüber steht.</p> <p>Sie teilt meine Auffassung, dass die Homöopathie eine geeignete Heilmethode sei, um damit das Gesundheitswesen in Liberia zu ergänzen. Sie ist preiswert und die Offenheit der Liberianischen Bevölkerung für alternative, sanfte Heilmethoden darf unterstellt werden. Wenige Tage nach meiner Abreise werden die „Homöopathen ohne Grenzen“ aus Deutschland zusammen mit Frau Gieraths-Nimene Liberianischen Ärzten in Monrovia die Homöopathie vorstellen<br /> -----------------------------------------------------<br /> [*/QUOTE*]</p> <p>In short:<br /> A native German woman married a Liberian and both founded a clinic in Monrovia, which after the husbands death is run by the woman alone.<br /> Some few days after Michael Kölsch's leave there the "Homöopathen ohne Grenzen" (the German branch of the "homeopaths without borders") will present homeopathy to Liberian doctors in Monrovia. </p> <p>Do note: </p> <p>"Sie teilt meine Auffassung, dass die Homöopathie eine geeignete Heilmethode sei, um damit das Gesundheitswesen in Liberia zu ergänzen."<br /> ("She shares my opinion that homeopathy is a suitable medical treatment to complement the health care system in Liberia.")</p> <p>So Michael Kölsch is an active proponent for homeopathy, pushing homeopathy. And it can be guessed about his role in paving the way for the homeopaths without borders.</p> <p>Is it possible that in 2014 a Honorary Consul for Liberia is NOT aware of the ebola epidemics in Liberia? Oh, he is aware of it. He organizes help. </p> <p>Now, if someone has these strong connections that he has, and is so well connected with people in medicine and politics, does this man NOT know about the WHO ruling out homeopathy? </p> <p>There are pants on fire in Leipzig, this we can be sure of...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275961&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1U04e8aI6CrmMOg7XdU_WpVISFhPg28BOmf1T_nfcGA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275961">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275962" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417184628"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave, what happened with my comment???</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275962&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VeVv363sjhd5FfgnVOuzgUcDcnbvJiVQ5VTkSYYgSsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275962">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275963" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417188774"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There’s got to be that day that conventional medicine will respect homeopathy—both have their strengths, both have their weaknesses; they need to stop calling each other names.” </p></blockquote> <p>This "we're-all-part-of-the-identity-smorgasburg" schtick is very old and very annoying. Medicine is being treated like different ways of making turkey stuffing. I like cornbread, you don't. "No right, no wrong; just different. Why can't our critics see that?"</p> <p>Because you're making objective claims of fact, not expressing personal preferences, that's why. But this Identity Smorgasbord framework and its easy appeals to tolerance and "respect" plays well for people who want to duck accountability.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275963&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rvDIJCGJfrytiYnPYZ-RvwXbqcB8SkcgHJywUzoL2H0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sastra (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275963">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275964" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417189147"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When one of my kiddos was about 15yo, he described some very woo-y acquaintances thusly " their hearts are in the right place but their heads are up their arse."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275964&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L3huRAa1YDDc7Zl-B2xIXafU-TZHxMS8OFAaIJjZ67o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brook (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275964">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275965" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417189585"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Brook, that's exactly the sort of thing my own offspring would say!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275965&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aUTx4mL4IBFDq6UYPCB12HZs-gndic0x79KU4RhPuY0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stuartg (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275965">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275966" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417191070"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's true that most proponents of alternative medicine have "their hearts in the right place." They mean well and genuinely want to help themselves and others 'heal.'</p> <p>But there's a dark side to that. Because they place so much emphasis on good intentions leading to discoveries of truth they are wont to assume that those who don't agree with them <i>don't </i>have good intentions. Skeptics are skeptical because "their hearts are not in the right place." Thus they equate our criticisms with "name-calling."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275966&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="34fE6EmU-6F1wW0xbCFww0SRCTOrwSSyexCUpkYC0Sg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sastra (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275966">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275967" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417195172"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sastra, what you say is precisely true in regards to the anti-vaccine movement: they go as far to say that those who disagree with them are agents of malfeasance, paid shills and deserve to be behind bars.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275967&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IK0YBIoS903e31oZMja2JEkjn_lnVZOXiLgV86Ulqmw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275967">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275968" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417196802"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The package was annotated in both English and French. The French translation was, as you would guess, something like “poulet vétéran”.</p></blockquote> <p>Reminds me of a high school french class where the students were supposed to look up words for weather and write them on the blackboard.</p> <p>Several of us had puzzled looks for a bit after one student wrote 'salut' on the board... before realizing that 'salut' does in fact mean 'hail', but in the sense of greeting someone. Somebody obviously hadn't bothered to do the reverse lookup to make sure that their translation was actually using the proper of the multiple definitions of the word.</p> <p>... Why do I still waste brain cells remembering events like this thirty years later?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275968&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YEW_Kygd6SkQ4aw_Rkn4ElLZk-iFTtFYtwIOTfSYaB4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jenora Feuer (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275968">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275969" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417199191"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Jenora Feuer:</p> <p>You don't have much of a choice- memory is associative.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275969&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cjFn-t0VK-Ry6c8-rII7TseZQ2QX7bRzyLWgvi6Q0Fc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275969">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275970" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417200018"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OT but are anti-vaxxers trying to drum up responses any way they can EVER truly OT @ RI- esp on a slow newsday?<br /> I should think not.</p> <p>At any rate, the editor/s haul out an old and tired article by John about their numero uno *bete noire* and *voila!* the commenters come crawling out of the woodwork seething.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275970&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DMrMslTdeVenX73dtAFgnBoqK-eyNEUpWEzVNMeRLgg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275970">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275971" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417202256"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad @6 --- What is "EVD"?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275971&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fN_Fpuey6INKVYB3ueV9b9vtsC_tSbrL0WUd07q7KqM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275971">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275972" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417203769"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> something like poulet veteran</i></p> <p>What, you guys have never heard of a full-bird colonel?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275972&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1SkkpCdC0Lf9tx53bb7oDgSDhTURAX3g5hP9BKHpakg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275972">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275973" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417204020"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Narad @6 — What is “EVD”?</p></blockquote> <p>Ebola virus disease. The longer I look at this, the more incoherent it seems. The seeming breakdown in David R. Allen's command of the English language toward the end doesn't help much. If anyone can convert the VEGF bit into something resembling coherent thought, I'd be fascinated.</p> <p>It was actually at this point that I resorted to verification of his license, which is fine. And he went to UCLA, which makes his Web site all the more pathetic. Check <a href="http://www.davidallenmd.com/treatments/pemf-pulsed-electromagnetic-frequency">this</a> out:</p> <p>"Our bodies contain a natural magnetic field, created by the flow of electrically-charged ions in and out of our cells and by the transmission of electrical impulses through the membranes of our cells.</p> <p>A deficiency of electromagnetic force in our bodies creates a situation similar to running out of oxygen....</p> <p>"With almost 90% of the earth’s electromagnetic field having been lost, ... it is no wonder that many people’s bodies have become highly toxic and are functioning well below optimal capacity [<i>sic</i>].</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275973&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KAJzdPNFuddi-D8YmYQ9eM-k8U0xTcv12JtprkXHoxw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275973">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275974" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417204699"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>what happened with my comment???</p></blockquote> <p>Now that it has appeared, more than two links.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275974&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6zRysRK-FaTwSL3mdP_EUFNOFtPp2KSYpVwqwiwfak4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275974">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275975" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417206393"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>With respect to the Strategic Helium Electromagnetic Reserve, though, I suppose knowing that this is also a <a href="http://www.icr.org/article/182/">Young Earth Creationist line</a> won't take up too much mental space.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275975&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UtDmguRKLApxJwc2ntT0Q_P-Vn33tqCwuDO3Dc_umas"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275975">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275976" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417212699"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad @22 -- Thanks for the clarification.</p> <p>Unfortunately, I have to ask for another -- what is the rest of your post referring to? Who is David Allen? What is VEGF? </p> <p>I feel like I just arrived from Mars sometimes, which maybe I did, in which case I'd be what a brilliant but highly dyslexic colleague of mine used to refer (in writing) as a "Marshan".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275976&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vj6L7T6ZeA9EzPD_J6U_BoN4jyIKAXJPzTA9HC_oJsw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275976">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275977" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417219297"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> Who is David Allen?</i><br /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daevid_Allen">Australian-born musician</a>. Leading force behind Gong and Invisible Opera Company of Tibet. Flying teapots and pothead pixies are involved.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275977&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oYGLeeJPz6_SEZb590vDPsLP69OqeWmQHJqftZY2hWU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275977">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275978" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417223713"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>What is VEGF?</p></blockquote> <p>Vascular epithelial growth factor. It might be most straightforward to refer to the <a href="http://cannabisdigest.ca/cbd-protective-ebola-virus/">original item</a>.</p> <p>The best I can figure on this front is that he's, ah, free-associating from something he wandered across involving rheumatoid arthritis and got firmly but horribly wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275978&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gflfgzstHzKI7eeFmjp8DLSyXghhdJgw88m327Fa5lM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275978">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275979" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417225351"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>'“With almost 90% of the earth’s electromagnetic field having been lost, … it is no wonder that many people’s bodies have become highly toxic and are functioning well below optimal capacity [sic].'</p> <p>HA! Wouldn't that result in rather more serious problems than people being "toxic" and "functioning well below optimal capacity"? Like, y'know, losing our upper atmosphere and all the consequences of that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275979&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bDXvTPiiQi8SnHqOTEtySGwFkgyitxZ3Q5wFMguV4ug"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275979">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275980" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417225562"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>“This was a golden opportunity to treat something that conventional medicine couldn’t,” he says. “Not only to help the people, but to show homeopathy works..."</i><br /> Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that there are still people dying <b>in Europe</b> of conditions which conventional medicine can't treat. Cancers, Alzheimers syndrome, ALS, CF. Wouldn't it be easier, Dr Hiltner, to show that homeopathy works by <b>curing people at home</b>?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275980&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4kd0zxWA9cl8J7KNFlLe_g9wTxH2kIF3eG4SUldrorg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275980">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275981" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417225633"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Or <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpVXpCNFOSg">this</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275981&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WaXaOLOXBhA3EpQjGfv6i6PiV5O6Wml4LkFSfbSKOIM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 28 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275981">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275982" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417250478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Adding to the report of this Turkey day event, my day usually starts with a strange genomic mixed bag concoction known as trp2Fam. A substantial deride projects toward me from all sorts of internet experts Googling the latest and greatest "education" on oils, crystals, toxins, anti-vaccinoidiocy, and the like. I guess hundreds of thousands of dollars in lab work and peer review science, of course, is boring as hell to hear about, so I hit the scotch and check out the bell curves, smiling along.</p> <p>So, thinking of the annual trp2Fam expression, my dad is an awesome family-based chef, can smoke three turkeys and hams for our gathering of dozens (I think one year we had 60+, typical though is about 40). Anyway, he had a cough one day. I figured some viral upper respiratory, he's mobile so it should self-resolve. I gave a listen to the lung sounds after some days later and have one of those finger pulse-oxs (I kinda like all the wifi medical gadgets that come out -- give me a 12 lead smart-phone app and that will be my kitten in the milk happy face -- I.T. advancement is a big part of medicine, I feel). He was satting in the tank :( .... So, we got him to the Primary and started a course of abx and ordered some at home O2. I actually had to explain pneumonia (which is really not a joke) in these terms for oxygen therapy:</p> <p>"A deficiency of electromagnetic force in our bodies creates a situation similar to running out of oxygen….'With almost 90% of the earth’s electromagnetic field having been lost, … it is no wonder that many people’s bodies have become highly toxic and are functioning well below optimal capacity.'" </p> <p>Either that, or the Lord wasn't being prayed to in the right fashion (is it ever?).. Anyway, I saw the 'magical force' in the previous comment and got a chuckle out of it. Not that the oxygen therapy and abx were giving him a much needed bump back to health, at all. And, after the requisite days on abx, the infection cleared up and he was satting in the upper nineties again. </p> <p>So, Thanksgiving, a day of it really isn't so bad.....as I cringe saying so. For the life of me, I just can't get into Breaking Bad. I'll try a few more episodes, but I'm skeptical.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275982&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BYBHHlbQYGDArFYx1J_62nNHd6RD0R0dnjOPi8HESbs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275982">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275983" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417251787"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Our bodies contain a natural magnetic field, created by the flow of electrically-charged ions in and out of our cells and by the transmission of electrical impulses through the membranes of our cells.</i></p> <p>Oh great, another case of not-even-wrong physics from a physician. It's true that moving electrical charges will produce a magnetic field, but let's look at orders of magnitude. Even if these things are consistently moving in the same direction (unlikely), you are talking about something on the order of a microampere per square meter. (That would be about 60 ions per second moving through a spherical cell 1 μm in radius.) Per Ampere's law, that gives you a magnetic field of around 1 microtesla, but arranged in a loop around the current, so it doesn't amount to much (especially once you average out the currents, which in a healthy body almost certainly average out to near zero). The Earth's magnetic field is about 30 microtesla at the magnetic equator, and twice that at the poles, but it is a much larger scale phenomenon. Add the fact that the sorts of fluids you find in a body are highly collisional (i.e., an individual particle doesn't get very far without interacting with another particle), which means that the frequencies with which those ions collide are much larger than any frequencies associated with that magnetic field. I'd say you can neglect the effects of any bodily magnetic field, at least under normal circumstances.</p> <p>I don't know enough about paleomagnetism to judge his claim that the Earth has lost 90% of its magnetic field, but I would take that claim with a large grain of salt.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275983&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x8f0sXh6SpZ-lfmMuJQ4AC10Pu6e_LeebDQDyDbgQqc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275983">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275984" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417256003"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ MarkN:</p> <p>" For the life of me, I just can't get into Breaking Bad"</p> <p>Yours truly as well. I heard raves from someone with reasonably good taste who started watching the tapes because of a recommendation from someone totally without discrimination or much sense who was and remains addicted to the show.<br /> I watched a few times and wasn't impressed although the lead actor was very good.</p> <p>I'm sure that many stage 4 cancer patients run around becoming <a href="mailto:bad@ss">bad@ss</a> drug lords .</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275984&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dEVBda06mhS-wU-WcNfY9yroCJq0zbzNchrnzcgAZHQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275984">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275985" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417258662"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Eric Lund:</p> <p>Then I imagine that you are not an advocate of the idea that 'all human interactions are an ENERGY exchange'-<br /> e.g. learning from a teacher, interactions between parent and child as well as sexual attraction. Or so they tell me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275985&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UV-jnD0gkyaOzfFiFA4ykFaos7H5fM8HR-QF52kr6ls"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275985">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275986" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417266010"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ama<br /> While I don't entirely disagree with the general gist of your comment, I take offense to your tone about Africa. We are not a bunch of primitives. It's that kind of fallacious assumptions that underlie faulty critical thinking. (Forgive me if my reaction is out of line. I read less than a quarter of your comment, since I am wary of obsessive ranting comments that are longer than the articles to which they refer.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275986&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LgBLrNfmwhrbw-WMpukL8dRFpylfxC3dpJaCuIrl2lg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jerome Viveiros (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275986">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275987" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417266080"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I went trawling through the Interwebs to try to find some info regarding the claim that the Earth has lost 90% of its geomagnetic field. I found a whole lotta nonsense, from 2012 stuff (oops!) to young-Earth creationist hooey.</p> <p>It turns out that the Earth's magnetic field is weaking to a certain extent, which might mean that a N-S reversal will happen soon. (Soon in geological time - these things typically take on the order of a few thousand years to complete.) Decent info <a href="http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/13-02-13/">here</a>, as far as I can tell.</p> <p>Magnets: we know how they work. Just don't tell ICP.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275987&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pUqlkyEyal_3pt-i-nGiRaUEfOqVE4ylIaidkAtnopc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275987">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275988" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417269331"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP@37 -- Searching around a bit I found that Prothero, who wrote the paleomagnetism article you linked to, has a book called <i>Reality Check</i> that takes up causes near and dear to many readers of this blog. As it so happens, the geomagnetic field is his own specialty, so he writes with particular authority. </p> <p>As the snooty waiter says, "good choice!".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275988&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="umxpDiRRPCal3tyI0oFe4wiws5DvxPMKjDDllvu3KeM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275988">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275989" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417269442"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jerome @36 -- You have to admit that writing a comment longer than an Orac post is quite an achievement. Possibly a dubious achievement, though.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275989&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a_UxJGHz5C8VUaLItNLYMb2VY1hPp5vSBO91JiB60I0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275989">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275990" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417271151"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>palindrom @38 - I haz mad information filtering skillz. I'm no scientist myself - well, I've studied some linguistics. Just a Ph.D. candidate studying Russian, Ukrainian and Polish poetry. If there's one thing academic training in any discipline gives you, though, it's a recognition of the importance of sources and credentials. (Well, it should, anyway.)</p> <p>If I don't get a decent job in academe - no adjuncting, please! - which is a real possibility, I've had thoughts of starting some kind of educational program for kids/teens on just basic critical thinking and information filtering. In the Internet age, it's more and more a necessary skill - there's just so much nonsense out there.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275990&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ok-VnbGebI6SHUUNZlrjVC2I0cDCuWmb8-Vb0v_HLDc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275990">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275991" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417275587"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ama @10,</p> <p>"she was on a college in India which produces bachelors, but not medical doctors."</p> <p>Just because someone has a bachelor degree in medicine doesn't mean they are not a medical doctor.</p> <p>It may be a surprise to you, but a lot of the world produces doctors who do not have MDs.</p> <p>A lot of the world, especially the British Commonwealth countries, derive their medical qualifications and practice from UK history, rather than USA history. Most produce doctors with a bachelor degree. Examples are the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and India.</p> <p>The degree is usually a double bachelor in medicine and surgery (MBChB or similar). The knowledge requirements of the 5-6 year professional degree is the same as the US professional MD. </p> <p>An MD from those countries is a research degree equivalent to the PhD in the USA. It means that someone with an MD from India, Australia, NZ, etc, has a higher level of attainment than someone with an MD from the USA.</p> <p>In those countries with the double bachelor degree, the professional term "doctor" is awarded by the medical council (or equivalent) of the country concerned.</p> <p>There is some advantage in this system: in New Zealand it is illegal for anyone to call themselves a "doctor" unless they are registered with the Medical Council. It doesn't matter what qualifications a naturopath or chiropracter has, or where those qualifications came from, in order to legally call themselves "doctor" they have to get registered with the Medical Council. And registration with the Medical Council means they have to have a recognised degree in medicine. </p> <p>Result: chiropracters have to call themselves a chiropracter, naturopaths have to call themselves a naturopath, homeopaths have to call themselves a homeopath... And if you see a "doctor", they have to be a medical doctor.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275991&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hnYu1-If6Pj69DTLpUikOqwA9Xjs8crvj0T_CG2I2oA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stuartg (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275991">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275992" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417279760"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP@40 -- By coincidence, I came across this <a href="http://blog.chron.com/climateabyss/2013/02/scientific-meta-literacy/">very interesting piece</a> that dovetails nicely with what you say. He's focusing on climate science, but the points he makes are much more general, and <b>very</b> relevant to almost every discussion here on RI. </p> <p>Highly recommended.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275992&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o6vNDliJ1thWK2Di0sdmN2ULNmrsVHV--ZpqIepfrDY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275992">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275993" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417280131"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I once purchased a packaged meal of seasoned chicken.<br /> The package was annotated in both English and French. The French translation was, as you would guess, something like “poulet vétéran”.</i></p> <p>For which Helianthus was nominated for the pullet surprise.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275993&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ahSheQ4znAE3pdzqf9DvU96E6FduVXax0jYX5m3IjI8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275993">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275994" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417290361"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Groan.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275994&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LM0pBhhl4XLOipJ6Ri550ObGYty2xhqX3B820O9bWhQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shay (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275994">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275995" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417292668"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ama #10</p> <blockquote><p>Number 4 of the gang is a special case: a “doctor of homeopathic medicine and surgery” – or something else of the sort. But no REAL medical doctor.</p></blockquote> <p>Homeopathic surgery? Is that like papercuts?</p> <p>JP: If you want to run that critical thinking skills program online, I'm trying to get an online class service going already (I would teach math, someone else I know from school would teach history, and we want people for other subjects too)...my gmail is the same as my screen name here, if you want to get in touch. (Actually, the same would apply to most people here, in their respective subjects of expertise.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275995&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z7m3oq0L7XF9PDb67YRfMTpGiXQW9mzRtrMu0EAGz0U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ebrillblaiddes (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275995">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275996" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417292842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shay@44: Look who's talking! (cf #21)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275996&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BV-yqJhDX2RVYWcbmO97Sq2aMlBp-aXR7Ig6DU2gzr8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ebrillblaiddes (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275996">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275997" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417293785"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Stuartg<br /> November 29, 2014<br /> #41</p> <p>&gt;"she was on a college in India which produces bachelors, but not medical doctors.”<br /> &gt;Just because someone has a bachelor degree in medicine doesn’t mean they are not a medical doctor.</p> <p>Wrong. You should have read the texts of which I gave the references. That bachelor is no real medical doctor. And it is a bachelor title and not a doctor tile.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275997&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sWsx4uJ8S0DObfzl5ms44MXfze1E_naiFkjK_Oby-9M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275997">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275998" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417293840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The degree is usually a double bachelor in medicine and surgery (MBChB or similar). The knowledge requirements of the 5-6 year professional degree is the same as the US professional MD.</p></blockquote> <p>Durge's WankedIn profile is <a href="https://in.linkedin.com/pub/dr-medha-durge/12/a46/406">here</a> (note that the claim to an [Indian] MD isn't backed up). She attended the Chandaben Mohanbhai Patel Homeopathic Medical College, which awards the BHMS degree.* This is a <a href="http://www.homeopathyinstitute.in/pdf/bhms_all_17082012_1402.pdf">4.5 year program</a> (PDF) with only a secondary-school prerequisite.</p> <p>Perhaps it has the same scope of practice as an MBBS in India, but it sure doesn't look to be equivalent to a USian MD/DO. It also doesn't seem to allow entry into a surgical specialization:</p> <p>[hpathy.com]/ask-homeopathy-doctors/information-about-bhms-course/</p> <p>The "Introduction to Normal Psychology" section has some good bits, though:</p> <p>"(c) Mesmar and his theory, Hypnotism structure of consciousness.<br /> "(d) Fraud and his theory-Dynamics of the unconscious. Development of the Libide."</p> <p>* And note that Durge also claims an MD with seemingly no further education to back it up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275998&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hxkEpu4yROcnGRTq_cUoyXrCHoAWVZSdMKE1nfYbQBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275998">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1275999" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417294028"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ebrillblaiddes<br /> November 29, 2014<br /> #45</p> <p>&gt;&gt;Number 4 of the gang is a special case: a “doctor of homeopathic medicine and surgery” – or something else of the sort. But no REAL medical doctor.</p> <p>&gt;Homeopathic surgery? Is that like papercuts?</p> <p>Please read CAREFULLY: “doctor of homeopathic medicine and surgery".<br /> Please read the texts I gave the URLs of. Do read the official Indian document with the curriculum and the exams.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1275999&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="62ItkEKfFjsAkxd0XzgV2Rg_-0CqvWTZzy9FXhxn2Os"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1275999">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276000" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417294259"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Should've trimmed out the text that the footnote was meant to replace.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276000&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SIVBgUk-RxMAG8GNbZPyCOxj-IcSafaY2Vo_m1umpfs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276000">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276001" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417294499"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ama:</p> <blockquote><p>Wrong. You should have read the texts of which I gave the references. That bachelor is no real medical doctor. And it is a bachelor title and not a doctor tile.</p></blockquote> <p>You need to demonstrate that the scope of practice is different from an MBBS, which <i>is</i> a real medical degree.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276001&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kAJMqw0FnGb9yHYUm3jMYFcw0cs-KN24CPWyjyJ60IY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276001">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276002" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417294657"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shay: "Groan."</p> <p>I was amused with by "What, you guys have never heard of a full-bird colonel?" comment. But, then again, my dad only made it to Lt. Col.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276002&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SIE_0JzVKPFCT75cSkNrHh8QWJelDUsbal9RvSv9Edg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276002">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276003" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417294696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad<br /> November 29, 2014<br /> #48</p> <p>One of the sources one must read is </p> <p>"Indian PM appoints Minister for Genocide"<br /> <a href="http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/851.htm">http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/851.htm</a></p> <p>The whole thing is very interesting because that text deals with an article written by India's best-known homeopath, a Dr. Batra. Batra opposes the new laws which would add a voluntary 1-years course in pharmacy - to allow the homeopaths passing that exam to apply "allopathy". </p> <p>It is explicitly described that the Indian bachelors lack a vital part of medical education. And Batra wants to keep it that way. </p> <p>Have a look at the Indian document: 215 pages describing the old (!) curriculum and exams of that bachelor education. </p> <p>Durge of course had the old curriculum.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276003&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4OtdvM7t0WCe3ntIDvu704epQGQuHQRBOfrn88pDXsQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276003">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276004" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417294805"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Though at least his hat was embroidered with "scrambled eggs."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276004&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UO2DdEUqklG2y50bVfM7lIeFLscNxehFDGkn6Hz4q6M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276004">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276005" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417295245"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>One of the sources one must read is</p> <p>“Indian PM appoints Minister for Genocide”</p></blockquote> <p>I already have. What mainly struck me was its similarity to your own writing style.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276005&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WC01ccJAI2AtpEfG_TQ-YuC5ZaUHFSseOSEDgv50FqA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276005">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276006" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417295451"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I have many writing styles. Some I copy and some copy me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276006&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pXir9NyMc-4AMRrpUR6M84dHw3Oj6_BdoI5PNmiu8Nw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276006">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276007" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417296042"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, and...</p> <blockquote><p>The whole thing is very interesting because that text deals with an article written by India’s best-known homeopath, a Dr. Batra.</p></blockquote> <p>One might note that the your Batra digression has no apparent connection to the <a href="http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-pm-narendra-modi-allocates-ayush-department-to-shripad-naik-2033648">two-paragraph news item</a> used for the your hed and lede.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276007&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="txFpt5WbcdLdmOQxlNL76pupzNSk3rVbjah3ZMSZcU4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276007">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276008" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417296598"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You better check who Batra is.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276008&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hav08-XrXWOQO8_0l-hIhJ_yCz_lHfly7Ua3USNJoyM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276008">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276009" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417297111"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For those who don't care to bother trying to wring signal out of definitely-not-ama's-no-really ariplex item, the issue seems to be <a href="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Allopaths-oppose-bid-to-let-in-homeopaths/articleshow/28612793.cms">this</a> and, more recently, <a href="http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Mangalore/allopathy-bridge-course-in-the-offing/article6626849.ece">this</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276009&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Nm6uLP2e8zwt1d7W_mtm3Njk4cu-w9ZdP_uL_EKYpkk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276009">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276010" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417297687"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ This at least clarifies that a BHMS does <i>not</i> have the same scope of practice as an MBBS, which pretty much takes care of Durge's credentials.</p> <p>See? Simple.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276010&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RE1eh0MN684pji0YsGbFykPJwbYtc3EOEH4VVgXVpTY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276010">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276011" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417298306"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Did you read the Indian DOCUMENT the college has online?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276011&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZslslgSxM2Nb2wtkcRoGQJTqMtY5jExqYUz1J1QqUj4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276011">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276012" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417321778"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The whole thing is very interesting because that text deals with an article written by India’s best-known homeopath, a Dr. Batra. Batra opposes the new laws which would add a voluntary 1-years course in pharmacy – to allow the homeopaths passing that exam to apply “allopathy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276012&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IPH5kwQ5YNLEnx38cZr7HQU2nHpSQgmQ_XxVeD-WI40"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sohbet (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276012">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276013" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417333868"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I haven't read any of this, but it seems like Batra may have a point -- conventional drugs have actual effects and can do harm, esp. if administered incorrectly. Contrast this to Randi swallowing an entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276013&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qSyAk199XkliFJHy_AMn6lMN_OEPDkD7ORrcLVImp4A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276013">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276014" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417342742"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@palindrom<br /> November 30, 2014<br /> #63</p> <p>Batra does not have a point. They key to Batra's tirade is one tiny statement, so tiny one does not realize its REAL meaning. Batra complains that homeopathy will lose its "charm". Batra wants to maintain the magic and the wizardry.</p> <p>Look at the situation: a homeopath does nothing else but waffle day and night, and delude patients, and rip them off with usesless crap. AND THEN the homeopath ON THE OTHER HAND uses some rotten, stinky,. diabolic "alloopathic" pills, ................................. and the patients gets REALLY well again, in short time. </p> <p>THAT is Batra's real problem: the delusions won't work anymore because patients now can COMPARE, AND FEEL that scientific pharmaceutical medicaments do work. Homeopathy immediately would collapse. </p> <p>Batra does not whine for nothing. He owns several hundred homeopathic offices in India. They will go down the drain once people realize how he defrauded them over the last four decades. </p> <p>Batra even used market research company Nielsen to make a "study" to boost his sales. That is a really mean imperialistic and capitalistic westerner trick.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276014&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Grz61GxU-VKXoYvR_JA7uNffZVZhQUeWrP32cea2Agg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276014">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276015" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417347405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While flipping through a catalog from the Vermont Country Store last night (the company bills itself as offering "practical" products), I found a number of homeopathic drugs listed, including one which purports to get rid of skin tags:</p> <p><a href="http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/store/search/search_result.jsp?q=homeopathic">http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/store/search/search_result.jsp?q=hom…</a></p> <p>The company has been advised why I will not be buying any of their stuff.</p> <p>*though I suppose homeopathic skin tag remover is less obnoxious than caustic "natural" solutions like bloodroot paste.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276015&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qQ1RlB3BFzW9RZifCZ4EMxzw7Awm6IewLjtfDbDRGu8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276015">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276016" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417349174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> THAT is Batra’s real problem: the delusions won’t work anymore because patients now can COMPARE, AND FEEL that scientific pharmaceutical medicaments do work. Homeopathy immediately would collapse. </p></blockquote> <p>You misunderestimate the power of suggestion, confirmation bias, and all that. In the west, people have access to all kinds of meds, but many still gravitate to homeopathy. </p> <p>Most of 'em have the kind of chronic complaints that conventional medicine tends to do poorly with, especially when doctors are overworked. Naturopaths of various persuasions tend to make a big fuss over the patient, which undoubtedly helps them feel better. Add to this the tendency for many conditions to resolve on their own, and you've got yourself a business model. </p> <p>Though not necessarily an effectual treatment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276016&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iFH3hbeAMjymvFx4BK9u54NqVs6rsJdx2Jqq5QBgD0Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276016">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276017" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417349422"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP ( # 40) re critical thinking and spotting nonsense..</p> <p>What are the easy-to-identify marks** of a true charlatan?</p> <p>Travelling about in woo-topia, I've discovered that they need first to have their potential marks disregard standard methods of determining exactly who is an expert and whom to trust.<br /> Thus, they need conspiracies that cast doubt on all authorities and institutions: the fact that they have no advanced degrees granted by esteemed universities and that they hold no important official positions is therefore actually a plus. </p> <p>Usually, their audience follows them over a period of time so mis-information about corruption in high places is repeated frequently, e.g. what are the two worst newspapers to them? those that most people would deem the best .</p> <p> In addition, they mention their own studies and work over many years which have helped countless people yet are denied by the corrupt authorities. Indeed, their innovations are a threat to the status quo.</p> <p>They allow their audience to be part of a privileged insider group which is obviously 'ahead of the curve' and riding the tsunami of paradigm shift which is always 'just around the corner or a few months off.</p> <p>Whilst they lord it over their followers continuously, being so brilliant and all, they simultaneously stress that they are just 'regular guys', down-home and folksy, in fact, they're JUST like you ( except for the genius , of course) and they, being humanitarians, want to help the poor victims of the establishment because they are also *spiritual*. They are most of all, your friends. And you need them and in the future, when all h3ll breaks loose ( another set of dystopian sagas on which they constantly harp), knowing them and what they teach will save your life. </p> <p>** I know.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276017&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LhnWXrrqGe6lSOWflGdHkTBXfSl_AcBqN_7VSltM7yg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276017">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276018" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417353707"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>palindrome @42 - That article was rad. Thanks.<br /> ebrillblaiddes @ 45 - It's really just a notion of a pipe dream at this point in time; I still have a dissertation to finish writing and a couple of years of funding, at least, to do it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276018&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hPtrgm6JeUVeV29sjv6fCm5PGR95UvojEilKcWf8-w8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276018">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276019" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417360001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice Walter (#67):</p> <p>Yeah, you've got it right, for sure. In fact, quacks tend to prey in particular on people of a certain anti-authoritarian disposition. Having come of age in punk/leftie/hippie circles, I'm no stranger to the mindset myself, although I've gotten much more politically moderate and (I think) realistic with (a little bit of) age.</p> <p>I used to regard woo among lefties as basically harmless eccentricity, until I started to see people die from it, like a friend of a friend who tried to treat her breast cancer with cannabis oil to predictable and tragic effect. Or when other friends get diagnosed with "multiple chemical sensitivity" and basically start living in a bubble. Or even when people freak out about eeevil agricultural chemicals and start to feel like they can only trust food they grow in their own yard. </p> <p>But, yeah, the mistrust of authority basically creates an air-tight belief system around this stuff. Once people really get into it, it seems to be really hard to bring them back out, maybe impossible. Mistrust and general hubris and intellectual arrogance turn into a hellish feedback loop.</p> <p>Given that what's exploitable here is a basic personality trait - in a lot of people, just sheer lack of humility - I'm not entirely sure that just teaching critical thinking skills would suffice to keep people from falling for rank BS. I'm not even sure how I managed to avoid falling into it; chalk it up to a working-class upbringing, maybe. The elitism of using, say, the word "sheeple" to refer to the majority of the human race always really turned me off. Well, that and moving out to the Midwest to attend a major research university and starting to hang out with med students, engineers and other science-y types. (The whole "doctors are only interested in making money off you!" thing starts to seem like utter BS after a few late night flash-card-cum-drinking-sessions with a friend in an M.D. / Ph.D. program. That ish is <i> hard. </i><i></i> If someone only wanted to make money, there are much better and easier ways out there to do that.</p> <p>Anyway...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276019&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dCGakfoJZDohS07u3AspUemq6pxlGwfxMIMIeqYGjpU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276019">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276020" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417364423"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@palindrom<br /> November 30, 2014<br /> #66</p> <p>Wrong. You look from your western point of view. But India is a terribly poor country. One of the details of the articles is the remark WHY the homeopaths are pushed: because there are not enough scientific medical doctors. To fill this need politics pushes homeopaths in. The same we had some decades ago in China. Remember the barefoot-doctors? It is always the same problem: not enough doctors and not enough medicaments. To keep the people quiet politics sends out surrogates.</p> <p>In China the situation bettered, and, guess what: people want scientific medicine. They would be astonished to see how the westerners want "traditional Chines medicine". Because there is none. All that stuff was an invention by Mao. </p> <p>The Chinese do want pharmaceutical efficacious medicaments. The do know the difference. In India the situation will develop the same way. Right now there is a vacuum. But once pharmaceutical efficacious medicine is available (the pills and the doctors to hand them out) people will want them. </p> <p>You underestimate the high criminal energy of the homeopaths. They treat EVERYTHING only with homeopathica, including lethal infections and diseases. How about homeopathy for asthma? Is lethal. How about homeopathy for poisoning? Is lethal. And so on, and so on. </p> <p>People will see the difference. One only has to GIVE them the medicine.</p> <p>Of course there always will be idiots, like in the west, who rather die than get a vaccination. But India has several hundred million citizens. Idiots are expendable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276020&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B4y9MmuW_V1GTSMnvyz_7g8JJdQuchMZdb_9C21Zslo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276020">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276021" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417367617"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ama@70 --</p> <blockquote><p> You look from your western point of view. </p></blockquote> <p>True enough!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276021&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7n3D0h8X3uSUzMTA52w8_TtTdJrxZpq9BFl5Wjwpx9Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276021">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276022" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417368632"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>But once pharmaceutical efficacious medicine is available (the pills and the doctors to hand them out) people will want them.</p></blockquote> <p>I don't doubt it. Some years ago in India I remember seeing an advertisement for a 'fruit beer' promising it was made with "all artificial ingredients". The irony of people in the west wanting 'natural' ingredients while those in India wanted the exact opposite was not lost on me. </p> <p>That said, India has no shortage of wealthy middle class worried well who are just as vulnerable to placebo effects of homeopathy as their western counterparts. Homeopathy works well for some imaginary illnesses, it's the real ones it's useless for.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276022&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pX1vOpei7r81HexBWQwffFXLwKoM9pbAl0ofYaZLr6c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276022">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276023" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417375816"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would add that there are those more prone to being "taken" that haven't been listed - evangelical Christians. I don't know if it is the ability to believe in God that makes them willing to believe "natural healing" over scientific research, but there are some marketers of woo that specifically target Christians, using Bible verses as part of their rationale for their treatments, etc. People in churches like Mr Woo's are especially prone to believe woo presented by these types, because "Christians don't lie."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276023&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QJULux6cMMEKNt8DX9eLdai-9MjdG9_korNW9l-DVmQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276023">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276024" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417376399"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>One of the details of the articles is the remark WHY the homeopaths are pushed: because there are not enough scientific medical doctors. To fill this need politics <b>pushes</b> homeopaths in.</p></blockquote> <p>Is anyone mandating the bridge training? (One might also wonder whether <i>you</i> share a "western point of view," given the translations from German.)</p> <p>In the U.S., naturopaths are enthusiastic about trying to gain prescriptive privileges, precisely because it varnishes what they crave – being respected as "real doctors."</p> <p>What you seem to be describing is the reaction of a single high homeopathic muckety-muck, Batra, to try to convince people with a BHMS <i>not to do it</i>. This presupposes his realization that, rather than being "pushed," they may well be all to eager for the extra luster.</p> <p>By the way, are you going to cop to the fact that the mere presence of the word "bachelor" doesn't mean what you've <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/11/28/the-invasion-of-well-meaning-quacks-into-west-africa-continues-apace-part-three/#comment-376537">insisting it does</a>? The Indian equivalent of a USian MD is an MBBS: "Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery."</p> <p>Given the amount of time it took for the distinction to be clarified, with <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/11/28/the-invasion-of-well-meaning-quacks-into-west-africa-continues-apace-part-three/#comment-376550">no deliberate effort</a> on your part, it seems like a useful discriminator between your actually being engaged in an exchange and your merely promoting an idée fixe.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276024&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cQm4f4QE_c0D0d3iC1RiXw60aXI4ZPps89f7uvswgXE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276024">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276025" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417376589"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ "all too", "been insisting"</p> <p>I generally don't bother wasting bandwidth to correct such typos, but this pair irritated me for some reason.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276025&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ylv9fF3amAdlMi3XIPgL3cP00YNMBwbiipUglFXxfVI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276025">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276026" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417377079"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Mrs Woo<br /> November 30, 2014<br /> #73</p> <p>Homeopathy is based on religion. </p> <p>A common item of many "nature" nuts is the belief that for each illness nature has a herb to cure it. This is based on the insane idea that man is made by god, and because god is benign, he MUST have made something to help man. </p> <p>That the very same god made all the misery and death, is ignored. That god PLANNED EACH AND EVERYTHING, including pain and death, is ignored.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276026&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7YBtQnrENHdEIQ7rSVvoYXOaUNvbYYKj8I9w84gUS3Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276026">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276027" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417377581"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad<br /> November 30, 2014<br /> #74</p> <p>You AGAIN show a severe lack of understanding the situation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276027&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jg-SOswfpDuzSPDFxdaxCIveKTn183hS9aEtTa1yCYk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276027">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276028" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417377913"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As JP and Mrs Woo note, altie balderdash appeals to both ends of the political spectrum- what's really amazing is when woo-meisters attempt to simultaneously address the deepest desires of the left whilst catering to the righties' fondest dreams-</p> <p>and yes, I've seen it happen @ PRN, Natural News, AoA and TMR. G-d knows how but they do it! </p> <p>Freedom, Nature, Independence and Spirituality are amongst the cachphrases promoted- harkening unto a time prior to the rule of the nasty corporations and the corrupt police state. Either g-d's green earth or Gaia's realm.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276028&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BIbkKdK2bYRjuIw7JTjYR5zoI3Wzxr0i5LJf32fzHwM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276028">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276029" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417379819"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Mrs. Woo (#73):</p> <p>I kind of doubt that it's the belief in God per se that does it. I've known plenty of perfectly rational theists. I myself am no atheist (gasp!) though you couldn't call me a Christian, either. (Though I do dig the Sermon on the Mount.)</p> <p>I think it has more to do with the "fringy-ness" of the Christians in question. Memebers of, say, the Catholic Church and mainline Protestant denominations seem much less prone to altie stuff than more extreme Evangelicals, members of apocalyptic sects, etc.</p> <p>This is anecdata, but my mom is Jehovah's Witness - she converted (from general uncherched-ness) after my dad died when I was a kid. The Jay-Dubs looooove them some woo-woo healing, from homeopathy to herbalism and who knows what else. The Dubs also have the lowest socio-economic status of any measurably large religion in the US, and the lowest educational levels, too. This is in part because they appeal to the poor and downtrodden; they're a rank effing cult for a lot of reasons, but I can understand the appeal to an extent. There's precious little justice in this world when you're on the wrong side of things, and I can see how one might find solace in the idea that one day, very soon, the "high will be brought low." So: JWs have a low rate of scientific literacy, are predisposed to distrust/dislike professionals in general, and are fed some anti-science BS on evolution from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.</p> <p>In fact, I think the Christian connection is mostly classic "crank magnetism": fundies of the creationist type are generally primed to be, in essence, anti-science, and thus to believe all kinds of silly things.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276029&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YL1XTmfEJI8Zt-D4FNGc-6cQugQX4l9IBkrQUY8WmaA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276029">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276030" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417379867"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You AGAIN show a severe lack of understanding the situation.</p></blockquote> <p>No, you've just perfectly clarified which of the two presented options applies.</p> <p>HTH. HAND.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276030&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PyZYBviUxeWeEP6rPhEj0lMir_c64eDaWEGUHphr6PM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276030">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276031" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417380069"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, I forgot to add - the second reasons the JWs have such low socio-economic status and educational levels is because they're opposed to higher education. Wouldn't want your kids goin' off to school and gettin' their heads filled with a bunch of "lies straight from the pit of Hell," after all. Or, y'know, learning to think.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276031&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YqvtFcbk5k7GRs6HvWIpVYLXuxcOk1o-2iin248W1aQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276031">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276032" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417382035"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP - Very interesting about the Jehova's Witnesses. Thanks for, uh, testifying.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276032&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9MWsfJDIMTOFTg4q2DEC6yY3X-CMDdALqcv4gAuN0ho"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276032">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276033" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417383399"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Homeopathy is based on religion.<br /> A common item of many “nature” nuts is the belief that for each illness nature has a herb to cure it. This is based on the insane idea that man is made by god</i></p> <p>Nope. You are confusing Hahnemann's Law of Similars with the old <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_signatures">Doctrine of Signatures</a>. The latter dates back to Imperial-era Greeks, who did not see it as the result of divine design.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276033&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OPel4F5pX0Cq2eRmRlNDK1ZomRxe_gX0EJ2SWCPpZDU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276033">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276034" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417384034"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>once pharmaceutical efficacious medicine is available (the pills and the doctors to hand them out) people will want them.</i><br /> Wiki: <i>In 2013, there were 4,655 pharmaceutical manufacturing plants in all of India</i>. Plenty of drugs in India, and paying patent fees for that production has not been a major concern, so they're *cheap* drugs. If people can't get them, or can't be sure that the pills they're paying for are actually what they're labelled as, there must be other factors at play.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276034&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nAMJOUseZE-qCwAnVaP4vVVRNAyxrMfu5gMkRTjcVp4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276034">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276035" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417385541"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@herr doktor bimler<br /> November 30, 2014<br /> #83 </p> <p>Wrong.</p> <p>The "Law of similars" is not by Hahnemann. It is much older. He read about it in a book, dated 1738.</p> <p>See "Hahnemann is not the inventor of "similia similibus""<br /> <a href="http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=7547.0">http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=7547.0</a></p> <p>Hahnemann in the organon talks mentions god several times. You can look it up here: <a href="http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_org6.htm">http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_org6.htm</a></p> <p>That is the original German version and no translation. Hahnemann's German is a pest. But it is a must to read it because translations tend to be interpretations and "flavored". </p> <p>#84<br /> It is not the pills alone. There also a prescription is needed. I do not know how prescriptions are done in India, but if there is no medical doctor to prescribe medicamentd, patients only can get them by going to a town. Seems they can not travel so far.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276035&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jn-Y90LVk0aLZrMEDgCLpwnObfbwpQtRKKS44JOCTxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276035">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276036" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417385881"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'll give Batra one thing: He at least presents a <a href="http://www.drbatras.com/en/hair-loss/homeopathic-treatment.aspx">direct challenge</a> to Dullman. What on earth the Nobel Prize being referred to for "Piler light therapy" is supposed to be remains obscure to me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276036&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dZ7FS51Ox9GlM4vZxDiU0LU7gNg-UiTEJCEUOF2-dOE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276036">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276037" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417386405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p><b>ama</b><br /> November 29, 2014</p> <p>Wrong.</p> <p><b>ama</b><br /> November 30, 2014</p> <p>Wrong.</p> <p><b>ama</b><br /> November 30, 2014</p> <p>Wrong.</p></blockquote> <p>*plonk*</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276037&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jlXURaJrfV2p-cXHQklx-sZXr4Dpsckk9KcX3Ln0WVc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276037">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276038" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417388013"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@JP - yes, fringes, or... the more fringe-y of some congregations. I do not agree with many teachings in Mr Woo's church (they would be considered an independent, but loosely associated congregation). I was saddened to overhear at the end of the adult class (I am the pianist and snuck in quietly at the other end of the Sanctuary before they finished) a mother suggesting that if we taught children nothing but Scripture and made sure they knew evolution, etc., were nothing but "lies" that we would be more likely to retain our young adults in church. The class ended before she could further expand on that - I am suspecting she probably would have encouraged any with younger children who could to home school to completely "protect" them from "all those lies that keep them from the truth."</p> <p>People like that really worry me. I am glad they are not a majority anywhere.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276038&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oD4P1PipQ82dUaE7z5fiEIXSfB8ucCIANjZrqZ_G7JE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276038">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276039" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417390894"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Mrs. Woo - If I had children, I would be concerned about them being involved in such a church. I suppose if it's not coming from the church leaders or Sunday school teachers themselves, it's not as bad, but still.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276039&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Cz3lAWDkItoZyEabwx3CmOZJ0T-90uFEip3gurGJa-A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276039">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276040" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417396696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>The “Law of similars” is not by Hahnemann. It is much older. He read about it in a book, dated 1738.</i></p> <p>This is (a) wrong and<br /> (b) completely irrelevant to my argument that the Law of Similars is different from the Doctrine of Signatures (you invoke the latter as the supposed religious foundation of homeopathy).</p> <p><i>Hahnemann in the organon talks mentions god several times. You can look it up here: <a href="http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_org6.htm">http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_org6.htm</a></i></p> <p>I suspect that most pioneers of mainstream medicine also mention god several times. This does not mean that mainstream medicine is a religion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276040&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9RDzEIDkOgVdOGzJprD4zmh6mmcZssuScmLi19JADtY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276040">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276041" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417396915"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>It is not the pills alone. There also a prescription is needed. I do not know how prescriptions are done in India, but if there is no medical doctor to prescribe medicamentd, patients only can get them by going to a town. Seems they can not travel so far.</i></p> <p>Yes, homeopaths have the advantage that sugar pills and water are easy to transport, to re-label when necessary, and to sell without restriction.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276041&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Cj7RNMm8s1odlG4xEZtrV0U6As7_vgnbOfPR-37DSuU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Nov 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276041">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276042" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417424200"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HDB on the doctrine of signatures</p> <blockquote><p>The latter dates back to Imperial-era Greeks, who did not see it as the result of divine design. </p></blockquote> <p>However, Flora Brand Herbal Teas have the following printed on the box.</p> <blockquote><p>For every disease we know God allows a herb to grow.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276042&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qDceKmsx4PDf_WGv-IcqyQYIiyT21W1s2E-lV44X77c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Militant Agnostic (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276042">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276043" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417428478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There's got to be that day that conventional medicine will respect homeopathy</p></blockquote> <p>Will that day be before or after the day conventional medicine starts respecting bloodletting once again?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276043&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="95OYxjfzjcYCjClPbeRKGJDEPtbIYTLpztXmJLKvbLo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276043">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276044" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417431899"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Along with moxibustion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276044&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uiduJuF9oIVRkKbTOOtle4ug68v7GoAh4OzsjK1K1OQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276044">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276045" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417441142"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@herr doktor bimler<br /> December 1, 2014<br /> #90</p> <p>"I suspect that most pioneers of mainstream medicine also mention god several times. This does not mean that mainstream medicine is a religion."</p> <p>I did not say that "mainstream medicine" is a religion. I said that homeopathy is BASED on religion.</p> <p>Scientific medicine OBSERVES nature and tries to find out how things work.<br /> Homeopathy and other constructs pull their mechanisms, why this or that is so and so, from religion, and then DECLARE. They do no accept newer scientific findings. </p> <p>This way homeopaths since 1790 ignore microscopy, bacteriology, and some other, very early developments in science.<br /> For homeopaths no other cause of illness exists but the mistuning of the life-force. Hahnemann radically rejects any BODILY source for diseases, like, say bacteria, fungi, viruses, etc. </p> <p>Because of the latter homeopaths can not diagnose. This is quite amusing to see when reading Batra's tirade against the new law. The homeopaths being unable to diagnose is one of the reasons why the must be kept far away from any persons being ill. But what did the gangsters do? Answer: They sent four of them to Liberia, and declared that they were experienced in handling epidemics. But how? The can not even diagnose! This alone uncovers the whole action as a lethal fraud. </p> <p>Important is that it is not the four alone (Broussalian, Durge, Hiltner, Lindemann), but a large number of other homeopaths who are accomplices in this fraud. And who even after being caught in the act lie like hell. They even want to send a second group. How? They also can not even diagnose! They ALL are frauds, each one of them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276045&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PNRIuDKRcUqNfP6Q4bQEHYiumWvTU_AyN_o8ugIhfUg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276045">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276046" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417442493"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am my son's Sunday school teacher. There is a list of things I tell him to ignore.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276046&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="udh0OPg1-INOgth8k1G9EPi2gCjqlZmTcZz1uESmcMs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276046">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276047" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417445801"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I said that homeopathy is BASED on religion.</p></blockquote> <p>But you were wrong, weren't you? </p> <blockquote><p>Homeopathy and other constructs pull their mechanisms, why this or that is so and so, from religion, and then DECLARE.</p></blockquote> <p>Hahneman's Laws of Susceptibility, Similars and Infinitessimals do not, however, derive from any religion's articles of faith. Instead it followed upon his reading of a scientific publication, William Cullen's <i>A Treatise on the Materia Medica</i> which presented the claim that cinchona was effective in treating malaria because of its astringency. Hahnemann rejected this claim because of contradictory evidence--other astringent substances were demonstrably ineffective against malaria. He looked for an alternative mechanism, using himself as a research subject. His perception that ingesting cichona caused him to experience malaria-like symptoms lead him to make that leap that it would likely do so in any healthy volunteer, that the reason cichona worked and other astringents did not was because "like cures like" and the Law of Similars was born. </p> <p>Nothing in this process was informed by religion or religious articles of faith--Hahneman instead tested and falsifed Cullen's hypothesis (noting astringents as a class were not effective malaria treatments), then methodically worked to identify a mechanism of action that was compatible with this additional observation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276047&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="O58Zemf0XB6J_6rOpdl_kbncGylr2nTXY9gQdcM3aBM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276047">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276048" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417447880"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Mrs. Woo - That's good.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276048&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-SWWHcGLz6zSF_ayBM5kV_srkibuGr1_pRM_cVyzEzo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276048">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276049" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417448262"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> You AGAIN show a severe lack of understanding the situation. </p></blockquote> <p>I don't think he's the only one. I find myself unable to follow you argument.</p> <p>Could you spell it out in simple terms?</p> <p>I think that you will find that everyone here will be in violent agreement with you that homeopathy is silly, that homeopaths have no training or skills that would enable to relieve human suffering (other than thrust), that offering them any sort to training in real medicine is like polishing a turd if they are going to continue to 'prescribe' homeopathic magic water (but I think everyone should learn first aid, even homeopaths), that homeopaths going to treat ebola is a waste of good jet fuel, and that while they may call themselves 'doctor', they are not medical doctors, and are, in fact, a pale imitation.</p> <p>But beyond that, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Maybe because I don't speak German</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276049&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DicswMqf5X7-_yPvQH-HtQVA5sWKG7XNeVKygOC6bKg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276049">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276050" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417448723"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johnny - I agree. I can't follow the thread here - is she arguing for or against homeopathy?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276050&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UVnoZL7vzPlJHZhAy0wTsPOo5wrxiyaojmjvOVfn7Pc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276050">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276051" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417452797"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lawrence, definitely against homeopathy. I believe that the objections are over some tangential claims that ama is making with regards to educational equivalents and the origins of homeopathy et al.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276051&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IAOAnCbkXEHUq31skh7ZFcLbAmYtt4ayz6_gNv1fGn0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276051">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276052" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417452824"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I find myself unable to follow you argument.</p> <p>Could you spell it out in simple terms?</p></blockquote> <p>Allow me: "ama and the Putnam Groove identity it refuses to cop to are infallible in every detail."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276052&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4RGEdIBoALNTp2BIFfzt7IlvdQGhtJ4_9EHiGgl1bBo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276052">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276053" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417452930"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johnny<br /> December 1, 2014<br /> #99</p> <p>When observing homeopaths and other esotters one sees their rhetoric warfare. We do not want to waste our time by stepping into their traps. This is why we are VERY strict in our course. It is a question of strategy. </p> <p>To have Batra as an expert witness is not for amusement. He owns several hundred "homeopathic clinics", though I would call them offices. I am not sure, but that might be India's largest homeopathic medical group. So Batra is neither a journalist nor a critic of homeopathy, but a fierce fighter pro homeopathy. He is not called India's best-known homeopath for nothing. This man with some few lines describes one of the worst problems of homeopathy. It is him who proves that Medha Durge is not qualified for the work in Ganta. </p> <p>When the LMHI homeopaths negotiated with "Freunde Liberias", the homeopaths claimed to be qualified medical doctors with experience in fighting plagues/epidemics. But Batra and the document prove that Medha Durge is neither a qualified medical doctor nor is she qualified in treating epidemics like ebola. </p> <p>Broussalian already disqualified himself when he broke the rules in Haiti in 2011. </p> <p>Hiltner makes a joke of himself by messing astrology into homeopathy. </p> <p>Broussalian and Hiltner may have a western education in medicine, but obviously are not qualified.</p> <p>Lindemann? Does in no way look like she is qualified to handle epidemics like ebola. An anti-vaxxer like Broussalian, she obviously does not understand the basics of epidemiology.</p> <p>You see: It is very easy to crush the whole thing, With the help of their own expert "Dr." Batra...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276053&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aSm1MEMStIWO_NYvaSaoIkJrvZJpoVF2BAnApUzZz7o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276053">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276054" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417453671"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ama -- I don't think you need to persuade regular readers of this forum that homeopathy is bunk, and harmful when it keeps people from seeking effective therapies. Might it be more useful to expend your energies elsewhere?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276054&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dm0T0BymP-uReBUAqV-mtg4KxVkYlBpq23FPov-sSFo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276054">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276055" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417456289"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OK, ama, I don't disagree with any particular point you state in 103, until maybe the last paragraph.</p> <p>You say it's easy to crush them. What do you mean by 'crush', and what would you have us do?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276055&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iWplF3JeU1BuYVsaT1lTpQaWDwjL7RD8Rpy3tLIC3os"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276055">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276056" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417458019"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johnny<br /> December 1, 2014<br /> #105</p> <p>The homeopaths sailed under a false flag. They claimed to be qualified medical doctors. With this claim the group "Freunde Liberias" asked for donations to support a humanitary aid action to bring medical help to the suffering people in Liberia, without mentioning that the sole purpose of the "mission" in Liberia was to "find the appropriate remedy", and, of course, demonstrate that homeopathy works on ebola. </p> <p>This sailing under a false flag brought them more than 5000 Euros in donations by unsuspecting citizens. </p> <p>Will the homeopaths take responsibility? Will they go public in Germany and tell IN PUBLIC that they willfully did wrong?</p> <p>What about the unsuspecting members of "Freunde Liberias" who supported the action? They gave their name, not they are under fire. </p> <p>Johnny, you ask about "crush". Very simple: </p> <p>1. The homeopaths are caught in the act of making false claims about their qualification.<br /> 2. They are caught in the act of making false claims about their intended aim in Liberia.<br /> 3. They pull down the support group "Freunde Liberias". </p> <p>Despite this they STILL say in public they want to send a second group to West Africa. How?</p> <p>They are neither qualified nor do they have any prove that their stuff ever worked. One thing makes THE WHOLE affair even more crimninal: The WHO already in August (or earlier) declared that "alternative medicines" are not effective against ebola and bear the risk of firing up the infection rate. Best example is the spreading of the epidemics from Mali to Sierra Leone because people from Mali went there to get herbal cures from a healer. The healer got infected and died. And so did MANY other Sierra Leone citizens. </p> <p>At the time the homeopaths planned their trip to Africa the WHO already had made its rejecting statement. So the homeopaths knew damned well that they MUST NOT use homeopathy. This makes their action a criminal act. And they did know that and they do know that now. Will they stand up and admit that they are willfully committing a criminal act?</p> <p>The homeopaths have a lot to explain now.<br /> They cheated their own friends and their own supporters. They cheated the public. AND THEY CAN NOT DENY THAT.</p> <p>They are crushed.</p> <p>What you can do? A) smile and B) pass this on. Like the Daily Mail did. Like the other media did and do. People have the right to know that homeopathy is fraud.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276056&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TyMpU25H51cos-NcKH-mxl9k0awMUxdkGq8yEyJRFAU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276056">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276057" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417461867"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Might it be more useful to expend your energies elsewhere?</p></blockquote> <p>I have a sneaking suspicion that <a href="https://twitter.com/aribertdeckers">ama already does</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276057&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UJrSJAwjBnxF2jr3nd7WrKvwWh0y2KP5sxU44ctr2Go"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276057">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276058" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417464551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'll tell anyone who will listen that homeopathy is a fraud, and I've been known to smile on occasion, so I guess I'll bow out at this point. </p> <p>Carry on.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276058&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HLpqSPrfc2afr-SSeqEjnyAgymHeWZ9WdsmHTOgduoM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276058">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276059" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417465057"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Perhaps ama might be interested in that union of concerned parents, Thinking Moms' Revolution ( who have an eponymous website and facebook page) who sponsor homeopathic e-conferences and often recommend its usage to others parents within their posts and comments.<br /> Yes they do!<br /> There's also a bit of homeopathy at Age of Autism website and facebook page.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276059&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LKdDDMds1jgS-uXmNCDaf6-ZbIlm8mM8OPqol3SAWJQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276059">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276060" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417472798"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Came upstairs for the night and Mr Woo was listening to an internet infomercial by a Dr Jonathan Wright with the "good doctor" (and, sadly, he is an MD) portrayed as standing with a small group who know the plot by pharma to make us sick, keep us sick, etc. It portrayed him as one of the "original protectors of health freedom" etc., etc., etc.</p> <p>I cringed at every wooish word, and thought about yelling, "Bingo!" after a few minutes. I am wandering if I waste the time trying to prove this man a fraud if it will matter. I know he will just go look for another one. He has been not working closely with our PCP to manage things, taking the small improvements from beginning low doses of medication as a new baseline and adding supplements hawked by these profiteering snake oil salesmen to try to hit his target numbers (vs. having another doctor visit and finishing med adjustments.</p> <p>He has had a second stroke (August) and believing the whole echo chamber that is alternative (medicine as well as news/conspiracy stuff) is going to end his life ten or twenty years earlier than it could last.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276060&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zvKaiXooxlhdoPqUYKEReNIApeFHscr_bcLKNc_IXxo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276060">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276061" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417472898"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>*wondering</p> <p>Oh how I hate typos.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276061&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="39W9IOvxOA_rH7FzIpgvQ8VVp08q6ZNF9faqZLn0jPA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276061">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276062" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417474569"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Mrs Woo: Oy. That's a horrible situation to be in. If it were me, which it's not, I'd try to get to him now, before he gets too invested in alternative medicine and its worldview. When someone really gets entrenched in that, nasty things can happen, including within interpersonal relationships. I've recently lost a couple of actually close friends for daring to question the woo-rld-view. (Part of it was me recoiling at being called "brainwashed" or a "shill" by people I'd counted as friends; what an insult, that I'm either deluded, stupid, or don't come by my opinions honestly.) Not to forget, of course, that he could die, which is the most important thing.</p> <p>I can empathize with Mr. Woo a bit, too, though. Chronic illness sucks, and managing chronic illness sucks. In fact, I very ill-advisedly tapered myself off the antidepressant that I'd been taking for three years this summer. (The risk-benefit analysis would definitely suggest that I stay on it, for various reasons, rationally speaking.) </p> <p>But I don't <i> want </i><i></i> to take meds and see shrinks for the rest of my days; in and of itself, it's <i> depressing. </i><i></i> What can I say? Half of what keeps me going in life is just sheer cussedness. (Plus, to be honest, the therapist I had to see in order to see the psychiatrist wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, even if she was sympathetic.)</p> <p>That being said, I'm thinking I'll probably need to make an appointment with a psychiatrist in the near future. My little experiment has not been entirely successful, and I really caught hell with my advisor when I mentioned it (He's also had problems with severe depression and has seen me at my worst.)</p> <p>All this is just to say that even the stubbornest cuss can be gotten to, it turns out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276062&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="h3hvDjRWXbFtadHtNz3qnPob8CB2a4qb4fS-Nn7VyGI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276062">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276063" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417488296"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Perhaps ama might be interested in that union of concerned parents, Thinking Moms’ Revolution</p></blockquote> <p>Those clods are censorious asshats of the first water. <a href="http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/voodoo-magic-sugar-pills-2">this</a> slopbucket of errors is even contradicted by primary homeopathic sources of the time.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276063&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_5K-YG2rgujPpHU9GqjgXsOogVFVigqk_KuOaY4fR34"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 01 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276063">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276064" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417503919"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mr Woo has diabetes and high blood pressure. He has been woo-enamored since before we met. I highly suspect his entire adulthood has been woo-believing. I originally found this blog years ago googling to try to debunk some of his suppositions. </p> <p>Strangely, having only one grandkid on the spectrum with five other grandkids who have been successfully kept up to date on vaccinations has made him willing to add flu shot and a shingles vaccine to his to-do list this fall. </p> <p>Chronic depression is a real struggle. I am glad you have an advisor willing to speak up. I reacted very badly to Mr Woo's second stroke. I am chronically ill and not physically capable of doing enough to take care of him while he recovers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276064&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sioXHeseBxohS6uqsu6UsWZngOuKRNWX8126CqSfS3Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276064">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276065" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417511678"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP:</p> <p>You certainly are in an unenviable situation - anti-depressants can be difficult- I know quite a few people who struggle with depression ( I only discuss non-clients, of course) and question whether to take meds or not. I have a related milder issue myself as do several family members.</p> <p>You do understand that you might need them- which is laudable in itself. Because you're writing a dissertation you must be aware that that alone might drive anyone towards depression.</p> <p> I think it's important to have a marker of sorts to remind yourself that "It's time". One of my cohorts says- half jokingly- that he observes himself and knows that when he hasn't combed his hair or shaved in several days, he needs help. Usually, I think signs like not doing work, leaving the house or<br /> associating with friends are extremely informative and there are on-line resources- inventories like Beck's- that will give you a measuring stick that you can monitor over time.</p> <p>And you may not have to take them for life- you don't know that for sure. Some people do. Best wishes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276065&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="icm68VSd-vP6FpBGqp4PdgEKKY_pXsTAF6LpiwlC4t0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276065">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276066" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417511749"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ah-ha; thus the 'nym. I have to admit that it (well, the term woo in general) keeps making me think of the Wu-Tang Clan. "'Cause yo, the Wu, the Wu got something that I know everybody wanna hear."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276066&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IAknC_F1zV9uGHoSlGtZCMaSzOTuFawI1fUC3LXn9eI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276066">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276067" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417512783"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Mrs Woo:</p> <p>I didn't know that he had had a second stroke- you have my sympathies- I know that you have health issues yourself.</p> <p>At think that at this time, it's very important for you to set aside time- and a place- for yourself wherein you can escape from his problems and relax but also strengthen yourself, physically, emotionally or educationally. Hobbies are one thing and useful but you might also consider additional education ( it could be on-line) and perhaps exercise ( adjusted to your abilities)- even simple things like walking or taking a class for an hour a week. </p> <p>When someone is ill in a household, others who live there sometimes focus upon the illness and the sufferer rather than themselves to their own detriment. </p> <p>Because of the internet and public resources, often educational and exercise-related opportunities are free or nearly so.<br /> I hope that things improve for you</p> <p>And -btw- recently I've been hearing of lots of woo that addressed strokes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and related conditions. Oh boy!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276067&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4apkrexCoxDKv1c2PQ9YLpi5F_8VnFHuhCfJTvePD28"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276067">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276068" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417519275"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Daily Mail has a new article with a slightly different take on the incident: <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2839577/Homeopathy-cure-Ebola-Doctors-attack-armchair-intellectuals-World-Health-Organisation-refuse-let-treat-deadly-virus-snake-venom-remedy.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2839577/Homeopathy-cure-Ebola-D…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276068&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hw8h0Cq1-o8oQxVG0NgKyDD-AH2BcqZ8C2ZTayUci5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276068">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276069" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417529074"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dorit Reiss<br /> December 2, 2014<br /> #118</p> <p>The article in the Daily Mail is the second of two, and it is not new. See the date:<br /> "Published: 15:44 GMT, 19 November 2014 | Updated: 23:23 GMT, 19 November 2014"</p> <p>Some homeopaths claim that the Daily Mail claims that homeopathy has already cured a number of cases of Ebola:</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/LaurieJWillberg/status/536988614328987648">https://twitter.com/LaurieJWillberg/status/536988614328987648</a></p> <p>[*QUOTE*]<br /> --------------------------------------------<br /> Laurie J. Willberg @LaurieJWillberg</p> <p>The Daily Mail is Right -- #homeopathy has already cured a number of cases of Ebola (LOL to spiteful "skeptics" hoping it wouldn't work)<br /> --------------------------------------------<br /> [*/QUOTE*]</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276069&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eZBpRUVjgvSo-zwdAa2xXcBpZa7MKCSkXXTvWM-ZeXE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276069">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276070" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417530523"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks for pointing that out, ama.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276070&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z-BMZ8Z6PDwwivhktgqWGm7XqZiub2WaKEhKV-IuVNM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276070">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276071" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417534494"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dorit Reiss<br /> #120</p> <p>Seeing your comment I thought they wrote a third article. It is a pity they did not. The situation got worse and much more weird. </p> <p>It seems to be true that an Italian organization in September 2014 sent 3 kilograms of a homeopathic remedy to Liberia: </p> <p>"The Italian donation uncovered as a fraud. Ouch!"<br /> <a href="http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8275.msg19318#msg19318">http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8275.msg19318#msg1…</a></p> <p>A homeopathic remedy of only 3 kilograms? Well, if it were a low dilution one could get tens of thousands of doses out of it. But it turns out that the 3 kilograms are for only 30 persons, and it is water. 3 kilograms for 30 patients, that is 100 grams for each of them. Three bottles of Coke would have been better. </p> <p>This incident gets several matters on the radar. </p> <p>1. Why only 3 kilograms? Did they send it as a parcel?</p> <p>2. Who in behalf of the Liberian government allowed this?</p> <p>Sending only 3 kilograms is rather tricky. The senders said they would send more if the remedy proved its efficacy. </p> <p>And now? WHAT!? What happened with those 3 kilograms? Who used it? Where? Who made the reports? The donation obviously was meant as a study. So the Liberians should have run a full study program with protocols, and with an this commission, of course. Where are they? </p> <p>The question of the supervision by Liberian politicians is much more delicate. The donation was in September, AFTER the WHO had ruled out "alternative" treatments. The "alternative" treatments had brought death to THOUSANDS of Sierra Leone citizens. That is a lesson to learn. The whole of Africa SHOULD have learned. But who in Liberia did not?</p> <p>At first sight a rejection seems simple and actually it is simple. But for a country in such a devastated state, who could reject something offered? The donors would have felt offended? And Liberia wanted more held, like mobile labs. </p> <p>Rejecting the homeopathy shit would have endangered the chance to get REAL SCIENCE for help. Not to forget the tons of food sent to Liberia.</p> <p>For the Liberian diplomats this is a desperate situation, and for the frauds a chance to abuse it. Was it a deliberate attack on the Liberian state to send these 3 kilograms of water? Just to try how much the "donors" could get the Liberians onto the knees? </p> <p>It is not astonishing to see the American fraud John R. Benneth report joyfully about the Italian "donation". He is just the type of psycho gangster who makes fun of ripping off people. His attacks on Randi show this. Benneth, the magician, wanted to crack down on Randi, the magician. The Italian "donors" and Benneth are birds of a feather. </p> <p>I do not want to excuse the Liberian diplomats. For them the situation is even more complex because their own boss, president Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, is a religiot and a pusher of homeopathy. To reject the donation could have cost the diplomats their jobs. </p> <p>Africa is a dangerous place. Why don't we send ALL homeopaths there? No return ticket necessary.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276071&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WgvO2jm8uMnFjwiYAV2oKPakENE9ZARHaBBsKg1rVjg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276071">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276072" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417534566"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave! The system sucks. It again swallowed a comment by me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276072&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8UhLw_Vrlmo4ayabG9qxLHqPySuZMO6HH1aprcdVMhU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276072">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276073" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417539378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Typos:<br /> "and with an this commission, of course."<br /> .. and with an ethics commission, of course.</p> <p>"And Liberia wanted more held, like mobile labs."<br /> And Liberia wanted more help, like mobile labs. </p> <p>"I do not want to excuse the Liberian diplomats. For them the situation is even more complex because their own boss, president Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, is a religiot and a pusher of homeopathy. To reject the donation could have cost the diplomats their jobs."</p> <p>Here the next sentence got lost:<br /> "To reject the donation could have cost the diplomats their jobs.<br /> But how many lives did their silence cost?"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276073&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7KHe8nIBZeiWaTVsP-r49EijroAp-rx7GVvZqY-DYtg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276073">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276074" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417543814"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Will that day be before or after the day conventional medicine starts respecting bloodletting once again?</p></blockquote> <p>Well, actually, conventional medicine <i>does</i> respect bloodletting... for a few, very specifically indicated conditions, such as haemochromatosis.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276074&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0NpK2HQuFJtaJ1GAhE59OBvj4O2LBKwGIcZbbgICLfw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jenora Feuer (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276074">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276075" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417548306"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice - thank you for the advice. Have been trying. One of those crazy times in life - we started construction on a new house at the farm just before the stroke and have to sell this one to finish the new one. So there is packing, etc., that need to be done as well. </p> <p>What upsets me so much about woo in this case is the improperly managed diabetes probably has most to do with diabetes. His blood pressure has been managed. He decided that med wasn't too dangerous when I pointed out that I have taken it ten years. </p> <p>Every night he web searches "diabetes cure" and once again is reassured by someone selling something that big Pharma is trying to kill him while silencing them and keeping him from "the truth."</p> <p>Just drives me nuts. The more places he hears this, the more it becomes "truth" in his head (corroboration and all - that many quacks couldn't <i>possibly</i> all be lying, could they?).</p> <p>That is the biggest danger of the echo chamber - innocent people see all the "evidence" of matching glowing testimonials, etc., and the whole thing seems more credible to them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276075&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MP1T6MKF2cc9Ere3idpf13wIAPV0fDk4w1il-nzSi8A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276075">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276076" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417548440"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>*has the most to do with the strokes, not "the diabetes." Sorry.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276076&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2o4I_9dWWSRn_jOYLvcO-duYwHcJ-dHGNzqers_uh3A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276076">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276077" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417551009"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&lt;/Plonk-O-Matic&gt;</p> <blockquote><p>It is not astonishing to see the American fraud John R. Benneth report joyfully about the Italian “donation”.</p></blockquote> <p>Try <a>this</a> on for size.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276077&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6jWcAyfRlOcNVLaZETL3vmiL0hH-wddQu3zcfUiBVxg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276077">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276078" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417552258"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Mrs Woo:</p> <p>That's rather awful!<br /> And it's one of the reasons I write about charlatans and their prevarication. It's all about money. If only we could get that message across to people like Mr Woo. Perhaps he needs to see photos of their estates.</p> <p> This phoney medicine hurts real people. A few years ago, I used to play tennis at a very posh club: the manager was normal but afraid of meds and tried to avoid them at all costs: when her doctor prescribed a drug for cholesterol IIRC she instead opted for red rice yeast. She felt great but then had a stroke and had to undergo months of therapy because she had problems articulating speech. I've been told she still speaks with difficulty.</p> <p>Interestingly, those entranced by woo hear 'evidence' and testimonials but fail to hear warnings from people like Orac or you or me. Possibly they may have a previous orientation away from authorities or have an axe to grind against doctors. As I've noted before, sometimes woo-meisters themselves feel that they or family members have been harmed by SBM- it may have been the first paving stone on their path to woo. And their fortunes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276078&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PyOhHDLHiYl41ylZiYaeja0ntSxq51AHWlWNVnMPDB8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276078">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276079" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417558001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mr Woo fell asleep listening to Alex Jones. Big rant about the Illuminati elite killing 90% of everyone off with water contamination and vaccines.</p> <p>Ended his show, of course, advertising his store, telling everyone all his websites, free shipping!</p> <p>When I point out that these people are making money off of their "patients," he says "they have to make a living" or "doctors make money off their patients too" etc., etc. At least he never went back to the iridologist.</p> <p>I wonder if Mr Woo will be awakened if I turn off fear-mongering speculation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276079&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ba4EWkakgtah74SROr6Uhze0K3rreIt7WWIDgSAr2Jg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mrs Woo (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276079">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276080" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417560771"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Mrs. Woo:</p> <p>I'm really sorry you're in that situation; that's gotta be rough. Obiviously you really love the guy, or you wouldn't still be there. Such a difference in worldview is akin to a deep religious divide, and I'm impressed that you're holding up. I mean, Alex Jones, daaaaaang.</p> <p>He seems to be at least somewhat moderate in his views, though, based on your description. I only hope that you can convince him one way or another to take care of his health (in a reality-based way) before something bad happens.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276080&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DxPG_TMBWvvBczeU1bY2HwzHdm0-Y2buDp4vwQNeQtg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276080">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276081" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417562728"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Incidentally, it's not so much chronic depression as it is recurrent; I have intervals where I'm doing fine, which is maybe more dangerous, as it can be misleading.</p> <p>One of the things that did get through to me the last time I was really sick is people who obviously cared about me breaking out in tears or even getting angry with me after what "happened." It turns out that it's not only myself I affect with my actions, even when they aren't directed towards others. Such awareness can fade, though, and the brilliance of depression as a "pathogen" is that it attacks exactly that part of your thinking that realizes that other people actually care about you.</p> <p>On the other hand, I've had friends tell me that they don't "think it's healthy to be taking pills every day just to be normal," or even that I've been duped by Big Pharma. Oddly enough, those same friends are annoyed that I've been more of a homebody and a little more irritable these past few months. Um, well.</p> <p>Makes one wonder if those friends are really friends at all.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276081&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AN_IM7F3LwIv5u8RTPdsFoPfniDBgwfTu_5TVnM-7bQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276081">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276082" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417564037"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I’ve had friends tell me that they don’t “think it’s healthy to be taking pills every day just to be normal,” </i></p> <p>Tell that to a diabetic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276082&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I68X8-4UoSt51BHx-wIpX0DtB383Tq9AkuyJ1hWGIGc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 02 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276082">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276083" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417592989"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Big rant about the Illuminati elite killing 90% of everyone off with water contamination and vaccines.</p></blockquote> <p>Big fail on the Illuminati side, considering the still growing population.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276083&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a_Qtsq_56QNdbPZHNTsK7JlXzr2_BIztrnX5jl6K3yw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276083">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276084" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417594464"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Mrs Woo:</p> <p>But does Mr Woo know of YOUR relationship with the Illuminati via RI? </p> <p>At any rate, I just ran into a video that may help illuminate ( ahem!) how people become woo-entranced:<br /> at Thinking Moms' Revolution today, publisher and professional woo-enabler Tony Lyons explains how he became a supporter of the vaccine-autism hypothesis:<br /> his daughter was diagnosed with autism after vaccines and a seizure; he later became familiar with Wakefield, etc.</p> <p>He runs Skyhorse which is publishing all of those autism-related books being hawked at AoA and has given Gary Null his own imprint as well.<br /> I'm sure however that his child's autism was not the first foundation of his en-woo-ment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276084&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c2KNXrCSIRAPfo3cl2C6qbyLx8ottBw-yj0PQZ5gA0E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276084">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276085" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417601648"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Some friends here don't know John Benneth? So, to enlighten you, here is a bit about John Robert Benneth (a.k.a. John R. Benneth), self-acclaimed actor, self-acclaimed politician-to-be, self-whatever. </p> <p>In August this year John R. Benneth once more got the world's attention by saying the unimaginable, the unthinkable, the ultimate ground-breaking news: "FDA APPROVES HOMEOPATHIC EBOLA CURE".</p> <p>Here is more about that: </p> <p><a href="http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8275.msg19126#msg19126">http://transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/index.php?topic=8275.msg19126#msg1…</a></p> <p>[*QUOTE*]<br /> ------------------------------<br /> John R. Benneth, known in the net for being a complete idiote, two weeks ago posted one more of his shrill shreeks: he claimed that the FDA approves homeopathic medicaments for treating ebola:</p> <p><a href="http://johnbenneth.wordpress.com/2014/08/31/fda-approves-homeopathic-ebola-cure/">http://johnbenneth.wordpress.com/2014/08/31/fda-approves-homeopathic-eb…</a></p> <p>[*quote*]<br /> The John Benneth Journal<br /> johnbenneth.wordpress.com</p> <p>FDA APPROVES HOMEOPATHIC EBOLA CURE<br /> Aug31 by johnbenneth<br /> ------------------------------<br /> [*/QUOTE*]</p> <p>If you are a bit older, you perhaps have heard of Elvis Presley, and about his amazing psychic David Guardino, the "psychic to the stars", who raked in MILLIONS, and had many cars and many wives.</p> <p>John R. Benneth was not only actor, politician, and homeopath. He also was a copycat and tried to make big bucks by copying David Guardino and our hero Randi. The TG-1 forum thread is a collection of some of the most astonishing insights into that scene you will read in the whole Net. No, honestly, this is no exaggeration. Did you know that David Guardino has a sister? She is doing fine, and she is a guest in our forum TG-1. </p> <p>John R. Benneth is a nasty fraud. In London he messed up with a homeopathy school. And he messed up with some speech he held about homeopathy. He was great in making a Nobel laureate making a fool of himself ("and the Cavendish Labs at Cambridge, at the invite of Prof. Brian Josephson. The title of the talk was "BEYOND THE MOLECULE: Supramolecular Chemistry and the Homeopathic Remedy."")</p> <p>The school for homeopathy, overseas, in UK, naturally, is a bit short of a brain, so they cannot handle him. But one homeopath, perhaps an Indian, cracked down on him:</p> <p><a href="http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sat92f">http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sat92f</a><br /> [*QUOTE*]<br /> ------------------------------<br /> Chandran K C · @similimum<br /> 17th Sep 2014 from TwitLonger </p> <p>"FDA APPROVES HOMEOPATHIC EBOLA CURE"- A funny claim by John Benneth exposed!</p> <p>JOHN BENNETH, FAMOUS FOR MAKING FALSE AND FUNNY CLAIMS ABOUT HOMEOPATHY (SECOND ONLY TO DANA ULLMAN), COMES LATELY WITH A NEW CLAIM: "FDA APPROVES HOMEOPATHIC EBOLA CURE"<br /> ------------------------------<br /> [*/QUOTE*]</p> <p>Now, of all the critics, which one do you think was the most impressive and the most funny one? This one, by a homeopath. Why so? Answer: Because it is a member of the very same gang. </p> <p>The same is with the education of Medha Durge, the Indian wannabe-doctor: it is a homeopath, India's best-known homeopath, "Dr." Batra, who pulls away the carpet underneath her. It is not the critics, no, it is India's best-known homeopath, who crushes her claims about her education, and, as a consequence, crushes the claim of the LMHI homeopaths to have sent qualified medical doctors, experienced in treating epidemics, to Liberia.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276085&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pKxelPmvsunPucXVNRVaBjkHdV256NgH7U6X1Elcmm0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276085">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276086" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417602014"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave, to the rescue, please. Comment is stuck in the pipeline. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276086&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jGwZMbyF1YvOT74GfDynkNk-AhfwF5TAlwnYwvxbIDo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276086">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276087" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417607168"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’ve had friends tell me that they don’t “think it’s healthy to be taking pills every day just to be normal,”</p></blockquote> <p>Yeah, tell that to my friend with schizophrenia.</p> <p>After a couple of early paranoid instances when they were still getting his diagnosis correct, he is <i>very</i> good about taking his medication. He's a nice friendly guy, and likes people, and knows that he tends to put people off if he's not on his meds. He's also got used to exactly how the medication affects his moods over time, and will schedule when he takes his pills based on when he's going out to be social so he will be in an enthusiastic but not overwhelming part of his cycle while talking to people.</p> <p>Heck, the 'taking pills every day just to be normal' applies to me with Crohn's disease as well. I remember the levels of pain I was in when that flared up (only time I've ever had morphine), as well as the weight I lost due to not being able to get half the nutrients from my food. A few pills a day to be able to live a mostly normal life? <i>So</i> worth it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276087&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9mZkOKPRofDn1NVREzlCQNilA7e6VTxDQWL0eIKFh8g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jenora Feuer (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276087">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276088" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417608693"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ama, if you poke Benneth's name in the search box, you will see 8 post come up that mention him. I think it's safe to say that our host has covered all the major loons, and a good portion of the minor ones. To get the full flavor of the crazy Benneth brings to the world, I would suggest checking out his YouTube postings.</p> <p>Also, note that a comment with 3 or more links will go to moderation. Wether this is a bug or a feature I leave as an exercise for the student.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276088&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kv6bbhOaNOLQ0HFMw6CXbqJaBBVZrzlzH_3owEqWh6A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276088">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276089" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417608733"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>On the other hand, I’ve had friends tell me that they don’t “think it’s healthy to be taking pills every day just to be normal,”</i></p> <p>I have gotten used to having hair, so they'll have to excuse me for still taking my thyroid supplement.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276089&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BiUQpTWx_0RBd7XRag64YZuc_Ex9F4IeJV7FGXsTTME"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276089">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276090" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417609362"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>On the other hand, I’ve had friends tell me that they don’t “think it’s healthy to be taking pills every day just to be normal,”</p></blockquote> <p>Do they think it's healthier <b>not</b> to be normal, then? Until or unless they can identify something that's been demonstrated to help them be normal that's proven to be just as safe and just as effective as those pills that's the choice they're making.</p> <p>And should they identify something other than pills, I can't imagine why the same objection wouldn't hold--e.g., "I don't think it's healthy to have my chakra's re-aligned every week just to be normal."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276090&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="im5sEv9-eg0cPBXAslBoyekzfkI0EgwZJorrH1LvIVk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276090">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276091" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417613621"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP:</p> <p>Do these I-hope-well-meaning friends realize that you're not taking pills "just to be normal," you're taking them to avoid being miserable? I would be tempted to ask them why they value my misery.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276091&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e23gIoTA75eFB6cyDcBaWgOi0eNvzIhVyP3KumBQguA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vicki (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276091">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276092" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417614208"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JGC @140: Well, in a sense, yeah, at least when it comes to one camp of anti-anti-depressant folks. This is the camp that think Americans are being fed too many psych meds to numb them enough to fit into mainstream culture, etc., etc. You know, there might even be a grain of truth to that - I think maybe SSRIs and so forth maybe <i> are </i><i></i> overprescribed, esp. by GPs, but I don't think it's a huge problem, and I certainly don't think it's part of any plot by Big Pharma to keep people complacent. I think a lot of people operate on different ideas of what the word "depressed" means, too: This is where you get people saying things like, "You know, when I'm depressed, I go for a walk in the woods" or whatever. Gee, that's nice, but when I'm depressed, I've been known to end up in the ER. (As an aside, I really don't know why anyone would ever be concerned about me suddenly becoming <i> normal. </i><i></i> That's about the <i> last </i><i></i> descriptor most people would use for me, I think)</p> <p>Some people I know are just kind of vaguely in that camp, but some really close friends of mine back home have gotten further and further into the whole anti-Pharma, anti-GMO, anti-fluoride thing. It really kind of sickens me that they'd value their ideology more than, you know, my wellbeing and/or life.</p> <p>The other camp is mostly comprised of my Polish and Russian friends, who seem to share a general mistrust of medicine and psychiatry in particular. This is actually somewhat understandable, given that psychiatry actually <i> was </i><i></i> used as a tool of state control in the Soviet Union and former Eastern Bloc countries. Folk remedies are still huge in Slavic cultures, too; "But my grandma said it works!" My friend Yana was telling me once about how she doesn't think it's good to take pharmaceuticals and prefers to take herbs instead. (Which is "grasses" in Russian, actually, which is sort of cute in a way.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276092&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AxiFLGactKRTHUgBia_aHo6hpRgZ2bds0xZFfODImLo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276092">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276093" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417614418"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, and I'm actually <i> not </i><i></i> taking anything right now, after having tapered myself off, this summer, of the SSRI and SNRI I was taking. Which is colossaly dumb and nobody should ever do. Actually, I was noting that it's funny that a lot of the people who were giving me flak for taking "pills" every day are the same people who think I'm not as much fun lately, which, well, I'm probably not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276093&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u1Uw5bWYoQzNrt4sFWqtwCEa07uVaWRZIipj6xxosCk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276093">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276094" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417616585"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP: I hear you on the tapering. It's a special kind of hell, at least as far as SSRIs go. Can't speak about SNRIs, but I'm sure that's no picnic either. Good luck.</p> <p>I used to follow a blogger who was a naturalized Russian. Not only did she believe ADD and most associated disorders were bunk- oddly, she was proud of her ASD diagnosis*- but she also viewed dentists as charlatans and was convinced that having even one tooth extracted would cause the rest to rot. ( I guess dentists in the Eastern bloc weren't very good?)<br /> * I say oddly, because you'd think someone who thought ADD was bunk would resist any diagnosis at all.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276094&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D-Nh0anhD8pY5wY_8htVRcTpkhos-50_IfDbOmHQYZo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276094">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276095" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417616820"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dentists in the Eastern bloc may or may not have been very good, but they certainly weren't very popular, since anesthetics were often in short supply. Poland still has the worst dental health of any nation in Europe.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276095&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LPG3dcoKG1HFgSC_zKWuZyH52BPgsp-LyVi_ZkGWMbg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276095">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276096" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417617702"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johnny<br /> December 3, 2014<br /> #138</p> <p>I know that Benneth is mentioned at several places. And I viewed some of his videos. The reason to grill him "extra black" is a very simple one: because he is so dangerous. Many homeopaths are only stupid. But Benneth is wicked. </p> <p>Most people do not know about his acting "career" or his political ambitions. Or his fight with Randi.<br /> I guess that nearly no one knows about his copying David Guardino. </p> <p>It is THESE things that display his real character. He is not a nutty homeopath. He is driven by his insane will to cheat others. Knowing this one can sort things out and understand why he attacked Randi or why he tricked out the London Nobel failure. For him it is fun to exploit others.</p> <p>His messing with homeopathy is not restricted to some recipes on how to make this of that remedy. OH NO! He started to collect money, and by now claims to have sent homeopathic to Africa, to treat ebola. </p> <p>Who collaborated with him for this? He says it is some German homeopathy company. Who is that in Germany, and who are his partners in Africa? </p> <p>They create a shadow world, behind the back of the Liberian government and the WHO and other health organizations. Whatever government and WHO do, he does his best to destroy that. Because he, the genius, can cheat them. </p> <p>John Robert Benneth is a criminal, letting people die just for the fun of it.</p> <p>There must be en end to this. He must be treated as exactly what he is: a bio-terrorist. And not only he, but ALL the other homeopaths.</p> <p>One thing not to forget: It is not only the ebola matter in Africa, it also is anti-vaccination disinformation and other fraudulent actions, killing US citizens. There are corpses! There are corpses in the USA. And their murderers still are at large.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276096&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rz-8u4CY1tx3jcNj_MqU4IaUsjA7NBE7dkLZKQflXsw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276096">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276097" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417618352"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What i've seen (personally and observing family members) the SSRI's didn't offer you the promise you wouldn't still be miserable if you'd made no other changes in your life. What they did do, however, was make it possible for you to <i>function</i> despite that misery, so you could attempt the necessary changes. (As in actually drag yourself to work/school every day rather than stay home sleeping 18 hours a day for 2 or 3 month's at a time.)</p> <p>When they can point to an alternative that offers that same benefit I'll listen to their criticisms.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276097&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R3yVB-WpPmsdyxLtOvBghs6nIuo37mS5lEW9IutzWbQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276097">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276098" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417639989"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JGC: True. I'd go back on anti-depressants if the side effects didn't make me more miserable than no treatment at all. And of course there's insurance to worry about. That's one of the major reasons I haven't been taking any medication since college ended.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276098&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7P3jntzKMceULVfJ1NO71-_R5vW9dy71Llrs3LJcHDU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276098">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276099" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417640183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ama: Maybe it's just me, but the only difference between Benneth and any other altie seems to be funding. Seriously, scratch an altie, and you'll find a sociopath.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276099&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UmhFQi7fn48GIvzuTbGWELOfvtzywst0EulpUzpjPhE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276099">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276100" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417646627"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Politicalguineapig<br /> December 3, 2014<br /> #149 </p> <p>SOME are deluded douche-bags. But persons like Benneth are pure criminals with such a high criminal energy that they should be put in a padded cell. </p> <p>SOME only talk about ding. But Benneth and others brought homeopathica to Africa. That is a high degree of aggression. </p> <p>The highest degree of aggression is to claim that homeopathica are efficacious prophylactics against ebola. This is mass murder. Do not forget he thousands of citizens of Sierra Leone who died because of those dimwits who went across the border to go to a healer there. </p> <p>That to claim something to be a working prophlactic IS mass murder is not an idea or a fear, it is a proven fact. Proven by thousands of dead. </p> <p>The claim that homeopathica are working phrophylactics is not isolated. Even if it were DIFFERENT groups, some only pushing homeopathy, some others making the claims about prophylactic properties, it is the TOTAL PICTURE which counts, and the total picture is: push homeopathy + claim prophylactic properties.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276100&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tvdf3qvx2SvHtVRM-7ts_fw4-YnhcOLhQsytkX6RBTA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ama (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276100">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276101" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1417650546"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I will note <a href="http://www.riverviewcemeteryfuneralhome.com/obituary/Catherine-Jo-Benneth/West-Linn-OR/1445860">one further detail</a> regarding Benneth without further comment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276101&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yrivlSzhpDOinNx-SY0-FrzTLtamHdkHoG49_Cf12Lg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276101">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276102" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1418106636"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What shocks me in West Africa is that local superstition has hugely aggravated the Ebola epidemic already. Then the homeopaths come along and introduce more distracting superstition - further confusing people. If they manage to popularize homeopathy for Ebola, I'm sure it will play a part in the resistance of the people there to quarantines and to going along with the efforts to contain the epidemic in general.<br /> The homeopathic remedies also deceive consumers in the West. They are led to believe the homeopathic remedies have some curative power, by false advertising.<br /> That in itself is a shocking situation.<br /> But that deception becomes deadly, much worse, with Ebola in West Africa.<br /> The "relatively harmless" homeopathic doctors have been laying the foundation for deadly deception in West Africa, with "relatively harmless" deception in the West.<br /> There has been some anti-homeopathy activism by skeptics in the West, helping to counteract the false advertising in homeopathy.<br /> And what we need to "get", I think, is that this anti-homeopathy activism matters. Because if this BS isn't counteracted when it's "relatively harmless", it may become deadly.<br /> It's a wakeup call - that our culture shouldn't put up with such deception.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276102&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kbU8mnakMLDcpTt6pnE62nNmbUFRRjYKXHML-dWEDuI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Luara (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276102">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276103" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1418108164"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Essentially, his heart is in the right place, even if it’s making him do some very silly stuff</i><br /> A lot of alt-med types have their heart in the right place. They are often genuinely caring people. They're "people people".<br /> That's what makes their message so appealing. It's hard to distrust a really nice person.<br /> These nice homeopathic doctors might have felt that a little harmless deception is OK in a good cause.<br /> It's similar to religious faith healers doing faked healings - they rationalize that the fakery is OK in a good cause.<br /> It's an "end justifies the means" argument.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276103&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lderSc3t9uaQqIT7uFAJgPF99sV8dV4ZneR2vd038JM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Luara (not verified)</span> on 09 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276103">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1276104" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1419259679"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From the <a href="http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/">H5N1</a> blog, the <i>Liberian Observer</i> reports "<a href="http://www.liberianobserver.com/health/traditional-medicine-be-used-‘all’-health-centers">Traditional Medicine to Be Used at 'All' Health Centers</a>."</p> <blockquote><p>The application of this policy extends but will not be limited to herbalists, homeopath, acupuncturists, ayurvedic, osteopath, therapeutic massagers, drugless therapists, bone setters, traditional midwives, chiropractic, steam bath and food supplements.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1276104&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u1hwvm1fvHEm_m9VzWvd9evfqhk0RXhS4bi4sEcDoIs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 Dec 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/1772/feed#comment-1276104">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2014/11/28/the-invasion-of-well-meaning-quacks-into-west-africa-continues-apace-part-three%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:10:21 +0000 oracknows 21936 at https://scienceblogs.com