Korea https://scienceblogs.com/ en Food, Farming and Genetics in Korea https://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/2010/08/14/rice-my-muse <span>Food, Farming and Genetics in Korea</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Korea has a 5000 year history of food and farming. How much can a nine-year old and her mother learn on a two week visit to this<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Korea-Walk-Through-Land-Miracles/dp/0060750448/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1281843156&amp;sr=1-1"> land of miracles</a>? </p> <p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-d34c70ce1e378852b8243f0ee3e52a65-Gyeonbok.jpg" alt="i-d34c70ce1e378852b8243f0ee3e52a65-Gyeonbok.jpg" /></p> <!--more--><p>For the first few nights we stayed in a tiny room in a traditional Korean house called a "Hanok" house. There is a courtyard that everyone shares that the owners have filled with lots of stuff including a rabbit named Mimi. In this quiet place, one can imagine ancient times before the rebirth of this powerful nation that was almost totally destroyed by the Korean war (1950-1953). Now, although most cities are dominated by massive buildings and congestion and where many restaurants are run by industry giants such as Samsung and Hyundai, a quieter life and traditional foods can still be found in the alleyways and countryside.</p> <p>Our first night there, Audrey got up in the middle of the night to sit in the courtyard in the pouring rain. When the lightening got too fierce and frightening she returned to our futon put her head on the buckwheat pillow and slept so soundly that her jet lag was over with the first night.</p> <p> The diet staple here is rice. According to the <a href="http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e09.htm">FAO</a>, 47% of the total caloric intake in Korea were supplied by rice in 1965. These percentages decreased to 35% in 1995, due to incorporation of other foods in the diet. We have seen many beautiful farms with rice paddies, ginseng, peppers and soybean as well as massive acres of greenhouses tucked between industrial areas.</p> <p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-25e5ab33019029d7bfa97373cb49d0e2-rice paddy.JPG" alt="i-25e5ab33019029d7bfa97373cb49d0e2-rice paddy.JPG" /><br /> <img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-747d72310f7dd3e589c0bf2a99ced339-peppers.JPG" alt="i-747d72310f7dd3e589c0bf2a99ced339-peppers.JPG" /></p> <p>Here is a sampling of some of the foods we have tasted so far. </p> <p>Thick slices of roasted potatoes<br /> Chicken on a stick<br /> Marinated dried fish with sesame and chiles<br /> Radish and cabbage kimchi<br /> HOT marinated peppers<br /> Amaranth greens<br /> Fiddlhead fern<br /> Mung bean sprouts<br /> Minature sardines<br /> Acorn curd with cucumbers and carrots and sweet onions in sesame sauce<br /> Soy curd in a spicy sauce<br /> Tofu with 2 kind of mushrooms and greens in broth with several kinds of shellfish<br /> marinated sesame leaves, marinated<br /> A dark delicious vegetable green, probably from greens dried from previous season<br /> different kinds of kimchi made from cabbage, radish or cucumbers<br /> pumpkins, either fried or baked<br /> Japchae sweet potato noodles mixed with sauteed vegetable<br /> Rice<br /> Bibimbap, a rice dish of mushrooms and vegetable and sauce<br /> Bomandu, dumplings with onion, garlic and sesame inside<br /> various stews with mushrooms, seaweed, green peppers, tofu<br /> Different types of "jeon": Savory Korean pancakes</p> <p>I watched a cooking demonstration by Paul Schenk to learn how the mung bean pancakes that are made. He began by soaking the mungbeans and a little rice for a few hours, blending the mixture to a batter, frying and adding green onions and green peppers marinated in sesame oil, garlic, sesame seeds and soysauce. "Jeon" is usually topped with pork or kimchi. </p> <p>Drinks:<br /> Unfiltered rice wine (makgeolli) is made through the fermentation of a mixture of boiled rice and nuruk with water. Nuruk is a fermentation starter made from grains, Aspergillus, Rhizopus and yeasts. For a great site on the history of fermentation in Asia see the <a href="http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e09.htm">FAO</a></p> <p>Another fantastic fermented drink is made from plums-one of the best drinks I have ever tasted.<br /> And then there is the 100 species fermented drink that Dr. An prepared for us<br /> Bamboo tea</p> <p>Many types of green teas, can be purchased from small shops such as this one.<br /> <img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-50997e9a208fd955c1327b6953e23e21-tea shop.jpg" alt="i-50997e9a208fd955c1327b6953e23e21-tea shop.jpg" /></p> <p>Desserts:<br /> Fresh peaches<br /> Yakshik, steamed sticky rice with pinenuts<br /> Korean donuts with cinnamon and honey<br /> Rice cakes rolled in bean powder<br /> Walnut shortbread<br /> Ginko nuts<br /> Roasted chestnus<br /> Golden kiwi<br /> White melon (yellow and white skin)<br /> Grapes<br /> Pine nut and walnut cakes with sweetened bean paste. I took a picture of the machine that makes this fabulous treat.<img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-d68e5818682c80a160ca7cb8f18bad7b-IMG_2052cake machine.JPG" alt="i-d68e5818682c80a160ca7cb8f18bad7b-IMG_2052cake machine.JPG" /></p> <p>The entry to traditional restaurant in Insadong, Seoul:<br /> <img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-1c29b2994490765d8fb4cd7b3ab52fca-Insadong restaruan.jpg" alt="i-1c29b2994490765d8fb4cd7b3ab52fca-Insadong restaruan.jpg" /></p> <p>and the full table of food:<br /> <img src="http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/wp-content/blogs.dir/333/files/2012/04/i-ad7090e5a328473fed3123cf3e7c53bd-insadong lunch.jpg" alt="i-ad7090e5a328473fed3123cf3e7c53bd-insadong lunch.jpg" /></p> <p>My nine year old daughter is more interested in finishing the 7th book of Harry Potter rather than sampling the food. For Audrey's take on this trip, check out<a href="http://asha123.travellerspoint.com/"> her blog</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/pronald" lang="" about="/author/pronald" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pronald</a></span> <span>Sat, 08/14/2010 - 14:50</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/biofortified" hreflang="en">biofortified</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/food-0" hreflang="en">food</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-and-society" hreflang="en">genetics and society</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/organic-farming" hreflang="en">organic farming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/poetry" hreflang="en">Poetry</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/recipes" hreflang="en">recipes</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/rice" hreflang="en">Rice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sustainability" hreflang="en">sustainability</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/korea" hreflang="en">Korea</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/makgeolli" hreflang="en">makgeolli</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sustainability" hreflang="en">sustainability</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905247" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1281828653"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I laughed to see your daughter is more into the Harry Potter than the trip! Maybe she will find something fun to do anyway. Cheers :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905247&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-C8zgUCkcmlUjkUn9E2wsQPH6PwUVDlLcSnreevkes8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">R. Elgin (not verified)</span> on 14 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905247">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905248" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1281833412"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If you enjoy hot food, try dakkalbi. It's chicken meat marinaded in hot sauce and then stir fried with vegetables and dduk. If you're in the mood for something which is definitely not traditional but still distinctively Korean, I recommend budae jjigae. This stew originated after the Korean war when meat was scarce. People would get processed meat (spam, sausage, etc) and surplus food (macaroni, baked beans) from military bases, then cook it all up with some hot sauce. I know it sounds terrible but it's actually pretty tasty.</p> <p>I hope you and your daughter have a good time in Korea.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905248&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gs3YDa5VVZ54f8l3jYlyvHjzVCYTxEH5loljcYL_9Y4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://ataraxiatheatre.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joseph Hewitt (not verified)</a> on 14 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905248">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905249" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1281864478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wonderful descriptions of the deliciousness that is Korean food! My mouth is watering as I remember all of the little dishes that accompany bulgogi.</p> <p>I hope you get a chance to get out of the cities and see the countryside. There are farms that have changed little over the decades, still farming as they did 100+ years ago. Notice how every tiny plot of land is dedicated to growing food, like Korean pear trees nestled in the curve of a highway on-ramp. What a wonderful country.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905249&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AU_-8wqgDmffWbfk8fOs-_tzqSR0ygLr0ipFB9fqMMY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://biofortified.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Anastasia (not verified)</a> on 15 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905249">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905250" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1281873402"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, a gooey good post! The table groaning with perfectly prepared fresh food while your daughter is tucking into Potter instead is hilarious!</p> <p>I will start learning how to cook Korean--it one of the few cuisines that I have neglected. Thanks so much for the informative/entertaining writing and the great photos. Safe and happy trip to you and yours. (Hope you are sleeping as well as your daughter!)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905250&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BYOarLO-umhX6ibDJNopYfnPvht6PYJfy2TZzcSUCaw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michelle B (not verified)</span> on 15 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905250">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905251" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1281896381"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My daughter, who lived in Osan for about a year, sent a video of herself eating some sort of insect from a huge vat of boiling oil and insects at a street fair.</p> <p>Over here, I cannot even get her to eat an oyster.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905251&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xYhDaNLH0xItFoP3oAFQVO0a-XR1QQlBtz75Oi1TJ6Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Harry Eagar (not verified)</span> on 15 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905251">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905252" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1282158085"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Harry Eagar</p> <p>I dont blame her. Oysters are gross, unlike yummy fried grasshopper. *drools*</p> <p>:-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905252&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c25fAK_Q4ilX6TDESzMV4lqULlzka4oUnXDwSY0_whE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Hinemoana (not verified)</span> on 18 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905252">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905253" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1282666125"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, mung bean pancakes! Yum. I make some that I got out of Madhur Jaffrey's World Vegetarian cookbook, but I don't think they are Korean. That's interesting. I would like to try this variation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905253&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wYT2TMEY95BAQvk-KdRC35Mp4NsUdhOZqB8oMeaSnSI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mary (not verified)</span> on 24 Aug 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905253">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1905254" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1354035135"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Your piece made me miss authentic Korean food so much. It always frustrates me that non-Koreans think they're getting the real stuff in places here in NYC like 32nd St. (Manhattan) or the western part of Queens. They even like the horrid meals here--which makes me think they'd freak out with delight if they ever got to S. Korea! One Question: What does the "Genetics" in your piece's title have to do with what you described or experienced? Thanks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1905254&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oys9VKr3k5Lbs_2WC5mVZ_6yXf90hKrVucVpuoXCsyU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Walter (not verified)</span> on 27 Nov 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-1905254">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/tomorrowstable/2010/08/14/rice-my-muse%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:50:44 +0000 pronald 70766 at https://scienceblogs.com Less religion = more religious activism? https://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2009/12/22/less-religion-more-religious-a <span>Less religion = more religious activism?</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/12/christian-cancellation-of-secular-truce.html?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed:+ResearchBloggingSocialScienceEnglish+(Research+Blogging+-+English+-+Social+Science)&amp;utm_content=Google+Reader">Tom Rees</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>It seems that when Christianity is popular, Christians are content with the idea of a firewall separating Church and State. It's only when Christianity begins to lose it's influence over the population at large that Christians begin to campaign for the State to adopt a Christian character.</p> <p>Looking at survey data from 18 Western countries, they found:</p> <p>-The fewer Christians in a country, the greater the support among Christians for a greater public role for religion (as shown in the graph).</p> <p>-The polarization of views between Christians and non-religious on a public role for religion is greatest in countries where there are fewest Christians.</p></blockquote> <p>The relation is illustrated with a nice scatterplot:</p> <form mt:asset-id="24190" class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/wp-content/blogs.dir/461/files/2012/04/i-33fc4e13fd93b39ac1ab584d360cf531-Achterberg_2009_truce_cance.png" alt="i-33fc4e13fd93b39ac1ab584d360cf531-Achterberg_2009_truce_cance.png" /></form> <p>Some of this can be attributed to specific factors in Europe relating to religious pluralism. Consider my coblogger <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2009/12/theological_carolling.php">Martin Rundkvist's reflections</a> on carolling. Even if a society is very secular, if the dominant religious orientation is uniform, then its background assumptions suffuse one's daily life. One can therefore be a "cultural" Catholic or Lutheran, with an attachment to the exoteric forms associated with the religion, without being a believer. But when you have religious pluralism thrown into the mix people are going to disagree strenuously about exoteric forms. This applies even to the post-religious; an American atheist from a Jewish background may have a different attitude toward Christmas than an American atheist from a Catholic background. In other words, <b>as European societies have become less Christian over the past generation, they've also had to face more religious pluralism.</b> Christians will become more assertive and aggressive in direct response to Europe's growing Muslim community, which wishes to contest the tacit monopoly that Christianity has long had in Europe as the Faith.</p> <p>But another issue which might be at work is that as nominal or marginal believers fall away, the set of individuals who remain committed Christians are more religious and exhibit more fidelity to their identity than before. This may result in a group of Christians who are much more cohesive and can engage in collective action out of proportion to their numbers. Whereas before more marginal and nominal members of the community might have served as a check on excessive activism, today those individuals may no longer be part of the Christianity community.</p> <p>The power of an organized Christian community is clear in a society such as South Korea. Though only around 30% of the population is Christian, with almost half the population not having a religious affiliation at all, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Myung-bak#Religion">Christians have been over-represented</a> in positions of power. The growth of the Christian religion has been rapid, but has slowed over the past 15 years. It seems possible that it may be nearing its "natural limit." But that does not mean that it won't influential in the years to come.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/razib" lang="" about="/author/razib" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">razib</a></span> <span>Mon, 12/21/2009 - 21:22</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/culture" hreflang="en">Culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/christianity" hreflang="en">Christianity</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/korea" hreflang="en">Korea</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/religion-0" hreflang="en">religion</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168185" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261456610"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The two regions with the lowest aspirations for religious influence appear to be Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. From my own experience of growing up in that part of the world I read something different into the result than the authors of this piece have deduced.<br /> In Ireland there is a distinct difference between what the public considers 'Christian attitudes' and what it considers 'universal moral attitudes'. Many of the assumptions of universal moral norms are absolutely taken for granted in Ireland - things like morality requiring a religious element, having religious instruction in schools, having a Catholic bishop in charge of school districts.<br /> Until fairly recently it was assumed that a law preventing individuals of every religion from having the right to divorce was reasonable (it was even written into the constitution of the state).<br /> When these sorts of things are challenged they are not taken by the Irish public as an attack on Catholicism or Christianity per se but an attack on universal morals and are thus rejected. The idea of religious diversity in Ireland simply means different types of Christianity being permitted. That one needs to take other beliefs or non belief into consideration is beyond the pale of most public thinking. If you read the newspapers or listen to the main public broadcasters there is an overwhelming religious bias that fits in entirely with the idea of a God keeping an eye on us, influencing events and answering prayers. To even raise a question about this is considered the height of bad manners. Remember, this is a country where the leaders of the religious orders summoned the government minister in charge of dealing with the abuse inquiries and cut a deal releasing them from over 90% of the financial cost for compensating the abuse. There was zero political fallout despite the fact that this resulted in several billion dollars cost being imposed on the public taxpayers rather than the wealthy church who carried out the abuse.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168185&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k2NjYqo4Z4qms0PI-qNGYtJ6OOOYitKnypqVPMs7HN0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://sneerreview.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sigmund (not verified)</a> on 21 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168185">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168186" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261464038"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In US history, at least, there was a time when "religious pluralism" included different Christian sects, esp. of course the major division of protestant v. catholic. In Colonial times in Boston, there were incidents of Catholics being hanged for witchcraft. I live not far from the site of a catholic convent school that was burned to the ground in 1836 by a mob of protestants who thought that satanic sacrifices were being held. At various times there was actual rioting in the streets over prayer in school (catholics didn't want to have to say protestant prayers). Religious minorities were quite aware that separation of church and state protected them against the WASP majority. "Christians" aren't a monolithic group.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168186&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="80xBdM_IoMzUXckalbk5V8908W8IUwYVpwc9pFzzoSI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Moopheus (not verified)</span> on 22 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168186">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168187" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261473305"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It would be interesting to see how South Korea (a highly Christian country) would fall out on this plot.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168187&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7xeApwtCmHtdHJU3XVTl-hsPrCB6WXp_AJFlF7EsxGY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://umlud.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Umlud (not verified)</a> on 22 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168187">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168188" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261490197"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>It would be interesting to see how South Korea (a highly Christian country) would fall out on this plot.</i></p> <p>as i mentioned in the post, <b>south korea is a very secular country, and not high christian.</b> south korea is about as christian as the netherlands, 30%.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168188&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m9QFuv2qO0RPmVgWFw6fTyR8219Al8HSWahbSRzHo0w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">razib (not verified)</a> on 22 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168188">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168189" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261508090"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's still remarkably high for an Asian country though Razib. I'd call that highly Christian. But then I think most people still think of Europe including the Netherlands as Christian even if most people really aren't there. (And even those who self identify have a pretty lose connection to either beliefs or practice)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168189&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kAS5S9XqqZCdsA5jbBZbG9ieLZUQm3ivngsH1f5SydA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.libertypages.com/clarktech" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Clark@amanochocolate.com">Clark@amanocho… (not verified)</a> on 22 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168189">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168190" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261508503"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>clark, well, good point. but since i was comparing to europe, i think it's not proper to culture-norm. in any case, </p> <p>1) the phillipines is really very christian as an asian country</p> <p>2) korea is still very secular compared to world averages. 30% of koreans consider themselves religious, 41% not religious, 29% convinced atheists, according to world values survey.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168190&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WAyl74ZULqQF3cNvygWDQMmmDfAKjGKN6qqwgdpcRD8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">razib (not verified)</a> on 22 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168190">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2168191" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1261524781"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Reminds me of a bit in "<a href="http://folk.uio.no/jlind/papers/Political%20Economy%20of%20Beliefs.pdf">The Political Economy of Beliefs</a>" which suggests that elites allow enough secularism to rile up the religious.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2168191&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rY9b-SeORxjs5NagSagU-2uoPuV0cRdipBboFGkyhtA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TGGP (not verified)</a> on 22 Dec 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2168191">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gnxp/2009/12/22/less-religion-more-religious-a%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:22:32 +0000 razib 101104 at https://scienceblogs.com Nobody Likes Us https://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2006/07/27/nobody-like-us <span>Nobody Likes Us</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060726/ts_nm/usa_image_dc_3">Reuters</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>In South Korea, traditionally a U.S. ally, two-thirds of people under 30 said in a recent poll that if there were war between North Korea and the United States, they would side with North Korea.</p> <p>"Anti-Americanism runs deeper and is qualitatively different than in the past, when it was largely attributable to unpopular U.S. policies," Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, says in a new book on the subject, "America Against the World."</p></blockquote> <p>The sad thing is that the Bushists don't even care...</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/mikethemadbiologist" lang="" about="/mikethemadbiologist" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">mikethemadbiologist</a></span> <span>Thu, 07/27/2006 - 02:22</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/korea" hreflang="en">Korea</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2129607" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1153989610"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Anti-Bushists clearly don't care either, because they're too busy whining about President Bush or his supporters to do any useful analysis about the root of modern anti-Americanism or to make useful suggestions about how to solve it.</p> <p>I don't think individual behavior is a significantly contributing factor to anti-Americanism, and I don't think changes in individual presentation can significantly mitigate it.</p> <p>I suspect that the root cause is still unpopular U.S. policies -- but in a rather pettier form than in the past. As far as I can tell, the U.S. has lately been willing to take decisive action before everyone in the U.N. agrees that the particular action is necessary; this offends people who care about the color of the bikeshed and often wish they (or their country) could decide on the bikeshed instead. I don't think there is a solution to this problem other than for people generally to behave more maturely than they do.</p> <p>The other likely cause is that the U.S. is the only real policy superpower, and people (irrationally) dislike it now more than when the USSR was a unified counterbalance acting against the U.S.. There is still a push against actual U.S. policies -- rather than their timing -- but it is not centralized in one place. Instead you have guerilla movements in Africa, a few hard-line Arab countries, a South American despot or two; together they can have as much influence as the USSR ever did, but the U.S. looks like an eight hundred pound gorilla in comparison to any one of them. This factor has an alternate solution to people behaving more rationally: for the US to go isolationist, at least in terms of policy. Although some policy pressure could be exercised by citizen groups through market forces, the likely downside of isolationism exceeds the likely benefits in both the short and long term.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2129607&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6SLfOpMzJ6Caxsr81cgm7NeM_iDgb-2HX-CGXQsVUwY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael Poole (not verified)</span> on 27 Jul 2006 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2129607">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2129608" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1154018419"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Very cogent response, MP. The George Soros decision to form a European planning group to try to oppose US economic and political dominance in the world is a closer-to-home example of reflexive anti-americanism----by a naturalized american! He put a big part of his fortune into defeating Bush, and Soros lost his bet. Now he's going to show Bush!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2129608&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lbdAc9rKNyUUQ7Z69nPPoCD4QgSjdQdGpc2pMaOLj5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Circumvision (not verified)</span> on 27 Jul 2006 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2129608">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2129609" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1154083790"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One problem is that a lot of people all over the world associate American people with American government.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2129609&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gxhTPZyyAMhq8F88GVIVEvL4KNH9j5m9sUz4GxIa5-A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Boubou (not verified)</span> on 28 Jul 2006 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2129609">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2129610" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1154165017"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"One problem is that a lot of people all over the world associate American people with American government."</p> <p>yeah, and a lotta people make the same mistake here in the US. But BushCo is doing everything they can to fix that.</p> <p>and yes.</p> <p>that was snark.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2129610&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="T__9VNJ---en4XXvMIjy87R_67zf1suIYPDzPbfC1qU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">skunqesh (not verified)</span> on 29 Jul 2006 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2129610">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2129611" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1239765753"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>thanks for all</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2129611&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JI1oQ0Dv_ZE_BL-ETZfMTq0jnTDo9A17eUnSZuEkrAE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sexshopa.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sex shop (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/19804/feed#comment-2129611">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/mikethemadbiologist/2006/07/27/nobody-like-us%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 06:22:58 +0000 mikethemadbiologist 94587 at https://scienceblogs.com