j.b. handley https://scienceblogs.com/ en Does the flu vaccine cause miscarriages? https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/09/14/does-the-flu-vaccine-cause-miscarriages <span>Does the flu vaccine cause miscarriages?</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The reason there wasn't a post yesterday is simple. The night before, I was feeling a bit under the weather. As a result, I went to bed early, neglecting my blogly responsibilities. As I result, I missed the release of a whopper of a study that normally would have been all over like...well...choose your metaphor. On the other hand, the one day delay isn't necessarily all bad because it lets me see the reaction of cranks to this study, the better to apply some not-so-Respectful Insolence to it. The crankiest of these cranks, of course, is Mike Adams, a grifter deep in the thrall of any form of pseudoscience that he can sell to burnish his brand and keep the rubes buying and who knows how to whip his minions into a fine frothy head of anti-pharma conspiracy mongering. In actuality, though, I was a little bit disappointed, as Adams was <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170914014113/http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-09-13-cdc-funded-study-confirms-flu-shots-linked-to-spontaneous-abortions-vaccine-experts-rush-to-explain-away-the-findings.html" rel="nofollow">almost restrained</a>, at least by his usual crazed standards:</p> <!--more--><blockquote> A CDC-funded medical study being published by the medical journal <em>Vaccine</em> has confirmed a shocking link between flu shots and spontaneous abortions in pregnant women. The study was rejected by two previous medical journals before <em>Vaccine</em> agreed to publish it, further underscoring the tendency for medical journals to censor any science that doesn’t agree with their pro-vaccine narratives. <p>“A study published today in <em>Vaccine</em> suggests a strong association between receiving repeated doses of the seasonal influenza vaccine and miscarriage,” <a href="http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/09/study-signals-association-between-flu-vaccine-miscarriage">writes CIDRAP</a>, the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy.</p> <p>“A puzzling study of U.S. pregnancies found that women who had miscarriages between 2010 and 2012 were more likely to have had back-to-back annual flu shots that included protection against swine flu,” reports <a href="https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-09-prompts-flu-vaccine-miscarriage.html">Medical Xpress</a>, a pro-vaccine news site that promotes vaccine industry interests. Notice that the opening paragraph of their study assumed the study couldn’t possibly be true. It’s “puzzling” that mercury in flu shots could cause spontaneous abortions, you see, because these people have no understanding of biochemistry and the laws of cause and effect.</p></blockquote> <p>Actually, as has been documented so many times before, it is Mike Adams who has no understanding of biochemistry—or any other science—other than what it takes for him to portray himself to his gullible followers as a "real scientist." As for the "laws of cause and effect," whenever someone says something like that in reference to an epidemiological study, I know he's really, really clueless, because if there's anything that's very difficult to do in an epidemiological study with reliability it's determining cause-and-effect. That's why the cardinal rule of epidemiology is that correlation does not equal causation. It might, but usually it doesn't, and it usually takes a whole lot more than just one study with a correlation to start to suggest causation. This is particularly true when a study like the one Adams is gloating about is such an outlier, which this study most definitely is, as you will see. It's also an exercise in data dredging that illustrates the danger of small numbers in studies like this.</p> <p>Let's go to the <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17308666">study</a> itself. I can't help but note that Frank DeStefano of the CDC is a co-author. DeStefano, as you might recall, is one of those CDC investigators that antivax conspiracy theorists like those who made the propaganda film <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/07/18/in-which-andrew-wakefield-and-del-bigtrees-antivaccine-documentary-vaxxed-is-reviewed-with-insolence/">VAXXED</a> portray as one of the main villains in the <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2015/08/25/kevin-barry-you-magnificent-bastard-i-read-your-antivaccine-book/">"CDC whistleblower" conspiracy theory</a>. Also, several of the authors receive pharma money for research support. Nicola Klein, for instance, receives research support from GlaxoSmithKline, Sanofi Pasteur, Pfizer, Merck, MedImmune, Novartis, and Protein Science, while Allison Naleway receives funding from GlaxoSmithKline, MedImmune, and Pfizer. Others receive support from MedImmune and Novavax. So basically, this was a study funded by the CDC and carried out by CDC scientists and scientists receiving significant pharma funding. I just couldn't resist pointing that out. I know, I know, antivaxers will claim that the findings were so compelling that not even the CDC and pharma shills could hide them, but it would amuse me to point these things out to antivaxers.</p> <p>Yet, here we see Del Bigtree, producer of VAXXED, gleefully citing J.B. Handley gloating over this study:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Tough breaking news for <a href="https://twitter.com/ChelseaClinton">@ChelseaClinton</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/DrPanMD">@DrPanMD</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/doritmi">@doritmi</a> FLU SHOT linked to MISCARRIAGE! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/endvaxinjury?src=hash">#endvaxinjury</a> <a href="https://t.co/6JwjnsAviY">https://t.co/6JwjnsAviY</a></p> <p>— Del Bigtree (@delbigtree) <a href="https://twitter.com/delbigtree/status/908085483799928833">September 13, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> I wonder if he knows that DeStefano is a co-author. He probably doesn't care, because DeStefano, like any scientist, can be a hero or a villain depending solely upon whether he produces information or studies that agrees with the antivaccine narrative that the flu vaccine is not just useless but dangerous. Be that as it may, the article above is a typical bit of Handley's Dunning-Krugger arrogance of ignorance, even more full of hyperbole and nonsense than the usual Mike Adams' endeavors in that area. Indeed, Handley even uses the <a href="https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-package-inserts-debunking-myths/">argumentum ad package insert</a> gambit. (Whenever I see that gambit used by an antivaxer, my estimation of his cluelessness goes up several notches, which for Handley is really saying something.) In any case, you can get a feel for how much the authors of this study are stretching to find a correlation—any correlation—between influenza vaccines and miscarriages that they're looking at combinations of vaccines by their brief justification for the <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17308666">study</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Since 2004, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) and other organizations have recommended routine influenza vaccination for pregnant women regardless of gestational age [1,2]. Influenza in pregnancy can cause serious, life-threatening illness in both the mother and fetus, as demonstrated during the 2009 pandemic [3,4]. Numerous studies of influenza vaccine during pregnancy have not identified serious safety concerns [5–12], but relatively few investigations have evaluated vaccination in the first trimester, a period when the embryo is highly vulnerable to teratogens and other factors [5,13]. A case-control study conducted by the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) demonstrated that influenza vaccination during early pregnancy in the 2005–06 and 2006–07 influenza seasons was not associated with spontaneous abortion (SAB) [14].</p> <p>The emergence of a pandemic influenza virus, A/California/ 7/2009 (H1N1)pdm09 (pH1N1), led to rapid development and widespread use of vaccines containing pH1N1 antigens. Several studies have evaluated the safety of vaccines containing pH1N1 in pregnancy, but few have focused on outcomes in early pregnancy [15–19]. Using a design and protocol similar to the previous study [14], we conducted a case-control study to determine if receipt of influenza vaccine containing pH1N1 was associated with SAB.</p></blockquote> <p>Notice the eight studies cited (references 5-12) that failed to find significant safety issues with the vaccine in pregnancy, and a study (<a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23262941">reference 14</a>) using VSD data failed to find an association between flu vaccination with spontaneous abortion. That's actually a lot of data for the safety of the flu vaccine during pregnancy, which makes me wonder what the justification for yet another study looking for an association between influenza vaccination and miscarriages. If I were a funding agency and received a grant application to do a study like this with text above in the "Background and Significance" or the "Impact" section, my first reaction would be: Why on earth would we fund this? It's all been done before, many, many times. Yet the CDC funded this study. So much for antivax claims about the CDC not being concerned about vaccine safety and not being willing to look for adverse reactions due to vaccines.</p> <p>I also find it rather odd that the authors would say that few studies have been done looking for a correlation between vaccination against influenza, when in fact there have been a lot, many well-designed, and they've pretty much all been negative. Whenever you see a study that finds something a lot different from the bulk of the studies that have been done before, the first question to be asked is: Are the results of the current study so robust that they indicate a hole in the existing data addressing the question asked that we should begin to question the cumulative results of all the studies that have gone before? Keep that question in mind as I continue.</p> <p>Also consider the bias that exists in journals to publish novel findings. As this <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/09/13/researchers-find-hint-of-a-link-between-flu-vaccine-and-miscarriage">news report</a> points out, this is the "first study to identify a potential link between miscarriage and the flu vaccine." That's almost certainly the reason that it was published. Adams, in his haste to portray as a conspiracy to silence, inadvertently tells me something. That this paper was rejected by two previous journals is not surprising to me. What is surprising is that <em>Vaccine</em> ultimately accepted it. Of course, how Adams would know that this paper was submitted elsewhere and rejected, I don't know, which is why I have my doubts about Adams' claims.</p> <p>So what about the study itself? First, it's a case-control study. Basically, that means that the authors found a cohort of women who had miscarriages (the cases) and compared them to a cohort of women who didn't have miscarriages but instead delivered full term infants or had stillbirths during the study period (the controls). The authors chose two flu seasons (2010 to 2012) and asked if women who had miscarriages were more likely to have been vaccinated for influenza within 28 days prior to miscarriage, as well as for different time periods before miscarriage.</p> <p>The most critical aspect of any case control study if, of course, the matching of cases to controls. The idea is to match them as closely as possible on all relevant factors other than the condition under investigation (in this case, miscarriage). Not uncommonly, investigators will do a 2:1 match, controls to cases, in order to make the comparison more robust. It's not mandatory, and Donohue et al chose not to do this. In this study, cases had SAB and controls had live births or stillbirths and were matched on site, date of last menstrual period, and age. I also note that the database they used was the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD). As I like to say, the VSD is an excellent rebuke to antivaxers who claim that doctors don't care about vaccine safety. It's a database designed to document adverse events associated with vaccination, and it's a huge database. I've discussed it before on <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/?s=%22vaccine+safety+datalink%22">more than one occasion</a>.</p> <p>So what did the study find? Here's a summary of the cases analyzed:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/09/StudySchema2.png"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/09/StudySchema2-450x282.png" alt="" width="450" height="282" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11052" /></a></p> <p>if you look at the tables in the paper, the first thing you will notice is that the adjusted odds ratios (aORs) for miscarriage as a function of having received the flu vaccine are nearly all around 1.0 or not statistically different from 1.0. Obviously, there are exceptions. Basically, the study found that, if a woman had consecutively received a flu vaccine containing the 2009 H1N1 virus the season before and had the flu vaccine in one of the two seasons studied, the aOR in the 1–28 days was 7.7 (95% CI 2.2–27.3). Otherwise, the aOR was 1.3 (95% CI 0.7–2.7) among women not vaccinated in the previous season; i.e., not statistically significant from 1.0, meaning no detectable difference in miscarriage rates compared to women who had not been vaccinated. This effect was noted in both seasons.</p> <p>Now here's where you should be skeptical.</p> <blockquote><p> This study has several important limitations. First, the most striking findings relate to the association between SAB and IIV [inactivated influenza vaccine] in women who previously received pH1N1-containing vaccine. This interaction effect was not an a priori hypothesis; the results were generated in a post hoc analysis with small numbers of women in the various subgroups. Although the interaction was observed in each of the two seasons studied, the point estimates were substantially larger (though not statistically different) in the first season for reasons that are unclear. Second, although most cases had an ultrasound, assignment of a precise date of SAB was challenging. With guidance from an obstetrician we integrated different types of information from the medical record (e.g., ultrasound results, clinical and laboratory findings, provider notes) to estimate the timing of the SAB. Estimation of SAB dates was independent of vaccination status so any error should bias the results toward the null (i.e., non-differential misclassification). Third, we studied only women who had clinically confirmed SAB; the proportion of women with clinically unrecognized pregnancy loss is uncertain but may be substantial [50,51]. Our results could be biased if women who sought care for SAB were more likely to be vaccinated in the 28-day exposure window.</p></blockquote> <p>So what we're looking at is an association, nothing more. It's an association with a lot of caveats, too. Basically, having found nothing more than one association with an aOR of 2.0 for the 1-28 day window of exposure to the influenza vaccine before miscarriage that was barely statistically significant (95% confidence interval: 1.1-3.6), the authors did a post hoc analysis looking for other associations. (Never mind that the "association" they found was eminently unimpressive given the size of the confidence intervals.) "Post hoc" means that they did additional analyses not originally specified. Basically investigators don't usually do post hoc analyses if there is a robust association in their data. They do it when they fail to find an association or only find an unimpressive association that is not robust. Also, post hoc analyses are <a href="http://journals.lww.com/epidem/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2010&amp;issue=05000&amp;article=00017&amp;type=abstract">prone to type 1 errors</a>, which means finding a statistically significant "association" where there is none; i.e., finding a false positive. When the numbers in the subgroup are so small and the study is observational (i.e., retrospective), that tendency is even stronger. Then there was the issue that the cases and controls were not as comparable as one would like in a case control study. For example, cases were significantly older than controls and more likely to be African-American, to have a history of 2 spontaneous abortions, and to have smoked during pregnancy. The authors did some correcting for age and history of spontaneous abortions, but it's questionable to me whether it was adequate.</p> <p>Basically, the authors did what we refer to as a subgroup analysis, in this case the subgroup being women who had received H1N1 vaccination the season before they received the flu vaccination in the seasons examined? That clearly wasn't a primary hypothesis being tested. Rather, it was a hypothesis the authors clearly came up with while doing the study. One wonders if this analysis was prespecified or whether the protocol was changed midway through. I only ask that because antivaxers went wild over claims by the "CDC whistleblower" that the Atlanta MMR study changed its protocol part way through the study, but, here, where the analysis seems to suggest such an "adjustment" during the study (although it is certainly possible that the H1N1 analysis was prespecified in the original protocol, given the choice of the 2010-11 and 2011-12 flu seasons), we hear...silence. Whatever the case, there clearly was post hoc analysis strongly resembling p-hacking going on here, in which the investigators, having failed to find much, started looking at other potential associations. Certainly, it smells that way.</p> <p>Speculations about the protocol aside, the investigators found what they found, namely an aOR of 7.7 for cases versus controls for exposure to the H1N1 vaccine the year before plus the flu vaccine within 1-28 days before their miscarriages. This was based on some very small numbers, though, namely 14 miscarriages and 4 controls. In other words, this is almost certainly a statistical fluke, given that it was only found for women who had received H1N1 the season before and had received the flu vaccine within 28 days of their miscarriage, and that the association was not observed for pretty much any other time window or combination. When considering such a result, one also has to consider biological mechanism and plausibility, and it is just not very plausible from a biological or immunological standpoint that this combination of flu vaccines—and only this combination—given only during a specific time window will cause miscarriages. Like Dr. Gregory Poland, the editor of <em>Vaccine</em>, I don't believe these findings, either.</p> <p>I particularly don't believe them in light of what we already know, based on studies Tara Haelle <a href="http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com/2014/01/08/the-real-story-on-the-flu-vaccine-during-pregnancy/">summarized the data</a> with respect to flu vaccines and miscarriages, stillbirths, and birth defects in 2014, using mainly studies published during the prior two years, and the results were very consistent and overwhelming: There was no association between vaccination for influenza and adverse fetal outcomes. Just for yucks, I did some PubMed searches myself for more recent studies, and found basically the same thing, but instead of listing those studies, I'll just refer you to a <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25409473">recent large meta-analysis</a> that found that the risk of stillbirth was actually lower in women vaccinated against influenza and no difference in the risk of spontaneous abortion. In other words, this new study is an outlier. It's such an outlier, that scientists are correct to be very skeptical of its results. Heck, even the authors are skeptical of its results. Unfortunately, they're not so skeptical that they don't resist making the call for "more research." They'll probably get the funding for that "more research," and then when the inevitable negative study is finally published, no one will remember it. They'll all remember this study, and, of course, the antivaccine movement will be flogging it for years to come.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Thu, 09/14/2017 - 02:50</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/case-control-study" hreflang="en">case control study</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/frank-destefano" hreflang="en">Frank DeStefano</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/h1n1" hreflang="en">H1N1</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/influenza" hreflang="en">influenza</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/jb-handley" hreflang="en">j.b. handley</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/miscarriage" hreflang="en">miscarriage</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccine" hreflang="en">vaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365541" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505373868"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Me. Adams seems to have taken the point about two rejections from this article. Which did a reasonable job at pointing out the nuances, though without your more in depth analysis of the science.</p> <p><a href="https://t.co/qBGRBZKaJk?amp=1">https://t.co/qBGRBZKaJk?amp=1</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365541&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6N5EgLNFVsvREPdybB-ZocpOumYFc0SnjNk83rIncBw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365541">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365542" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505375396"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And just to add, miscarriage can certainly follow H1N1 infection. <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21345415/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21345415/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365542&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="h5EDKTPC5nfKKLVrXUAKW7aAwW3F9suhxzbTkms_968"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365542">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365543" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505375718"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks you for this review. As I suspected, the confidence intervals include 0 in which one with a basic understanding of statistics would realize the association is more likely due to chance and therefore is not significant. </p> <p>Anti-vax sites are already spreading this as "evidence" for the evils of the influenza vaccines. Yet one would have to believe a sub-group analysis of a tiny group of patients(which is prone to bias and error as mentioned above) over meta-analyses with much larger number of patients which reveal the opposite trends. This is an immense error in deductive reasoning and is a classic example of "cherry-picking."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365543&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2GAzjMhsXkJkF1VQknL9zm7HFkJKBX9VcSYjbLwDrfA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Internal Medicine Resident">Internal Medic… (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365543">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365544" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505376708"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As a retired epidemiologist, according to my education, training and experience, post hoc analyses can only be used to generate hypotheses to be possibly tested in additional research which is exactly what the authors concluded with: "This study does not and cannot establish a causal relationship between repeated influenza vaccination and SAB, but further research is warranted." I guess Mike Adams and the gaggle of morons at Age of Autism missed this part. </p> <p>However, as you said, the sample size was too small, as can also be seen by the wide confidence intervals. In addition, as the number of analyses of any research increases, multiple comparisons, the risk of "randomly" finding something significant increases. So, given the strength of the already existing evidence, I disagree, as you do, with the authors that "further research is warranted."</p> <p>Typical also of antivaccinationists is downplaying the risks from the actual disease: "Certainly the risk is far worse than the sickness." (Yesterday's article, Flu Vaccine and Miscarriage, in Age of Autism). I guess in their minds that getting flu while pregnant doesn't pose a risk. Sometimes, when reading them, I ask the question: "What planet are they from?"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365544&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e-sN3qsrIMfPICQiE6PPfnGagd_4gfAi4BbhmzPp5CY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Joel A. Harrison, PhD, MPH">Joel A. Harris… (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365544">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365545" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505377019"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't recall where I read it, but didn't the group with more miscarriages have women at higher risk, anyway, than the controls? IIRC, there were more smokers, older women, diabetics in that group. And they are statistically more likely to miscarry anyway. (If I wasn't working, I'd go search my home computer for the item).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365545&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B6r_ROtRvo3iBZngAXehvVO9lfyJazqj5ZgV_lqQbp8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365545">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365546" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505378095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dawn, it was included in a comment I made yesterday, quoting from this source -</p> <p><a href="http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/09/study-signals-association-between-flu-vaccine-miscarriage">http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/09/study-signals-associ…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365546&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yaGSy5O0rCd8fdvL2jatud6spTd0UaV12mt8ryOgqBU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365546">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365547" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505379365"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm in my first trimester and I'm getting my flu shot.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365547&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lKzp1EjBeg5zgMGXoQvQdRmNO2sJDnexCYEWJS9l5bk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">PandaDeath (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365547">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365548" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505379619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks, Johnny!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365548&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4WfpPEtRQJFrcFI0UA98w-gxDbkBRu5QPAfYPFj5uiA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365548">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365549" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505380527"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Refresh my memory here: is the VSD the database that includes a rather generous definition of vaccine-associated injuries, or is that some other database? Because if it is the database I am thinking of, then the failure of earlier studies to find an association is especially damning, given that database's bias toward overreporting adverse reactions to vaccines (which presumably would include miscarriage).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365549&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aP2GrV4tHHhYcNI_SnewrMOY_gSiUlE-RQArOo_9QaA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365549">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365550" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505381665"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So it's another case of picking out the one outlier and deciding that it must be proof of absolutely everything evil they believe about vaccines?</p> <p>And of course that's without even bearing in mind that people who get flu vaccines are more likely to have health conditions that put them at greater risk of miscarriage to begin with, such as smokers, asthmatics, people with COPD, people with heart disease, advanced maternal age, etc.</p> <p>To Adams, of course, rejection by two journals is evidence of a conspiracy. To the rest of us, it's reason to ask why the paper got rejected twice. Since the paper gave a whisper of evidence that he desired, he skipped that question and just went straight for the conspiracy theory.</p> <p>The obligatory XKCD on statistically significant outliers: <a href="https://xkcd.com/882/">https://xkcd.com/882/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365550&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1LrrW6-I0HuuuIetGZnNFUP25afB36MNr6bJhqEVHwE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365550">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365551" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505381842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm throwing this study out to the epidemiology students to see who can point out the most sources of bias and confounding. I would say that this a jump-off to more studies, but, truth be told, there is a lot of understanding of what the flu vaccine does for pregnant women at a population level: IT PREVENTS COMPLICATIONS FROM INFLUENZA. And that understanding comes from better studies than this one as well as observational studies gained from outbreak investigations.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365551&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1Vd1oXoDk5ENGSQ7H3tjOfy98-n8k6UsAWJ-GAf25MU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365551">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365569" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505393383"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Those sources of bias and confounding don't happen to include the older age, higher rate of smoking, and higher proportion of African-American women among the cases compared to controls, now would it?</p> <p>I was actually wondering: Why is it that the investigators couldn't match their controls to cases better? Why didn't they do a 2:1 match, which could have decreased this problem?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365569&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rwe0zKVmja9AKViLEVP-0Q6IYhKSRlh_Wlk8AOZJ6AI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365569">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365551#comment-1365551" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365552" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505381988"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Side note: JB Handley has blocked me on medium.com from seeing his posts... If I'm signed in. I've been very critical of his pseudo-science, and he seemed to have difficulties replying to the facts I've prevented. So much for transparency and open discussion. Then again, it's JB. He compared Wakefield to Jesus, so...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365552&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yVoWR6szqk0waY9NvgUyuefBjyoIA0VNt2JEoJ4MuPM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365552">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365553" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505384259"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>-A few days ago, AoA ran an article by Ginger Taylor which claimed that the CDC placed a ' gag order' on its employees so that they wouldn't speak to the media...<br /> NOW WE KNOW WHY!!!1! </p> <p>- TMR's 'Professor' O'Toole has been ranting against the AAP's position on Hep B vaccines at birth<br /> -btw- TMR has much less posts recently.</p> <p>- Just before the article quoted above, Mikey Boy fumed about celebrities' support of Planned Parenthood (which is solely abortion, in his mind).</p> <p> Knowing Mike as I do I can imagine a parody he might write:</p> <p>" Hello LADIES!<br /> Are you bothered by one of those pesky unwanted pregnancies? Are you worried about the HIGH price of abortions over at BabyKillers, LTD?<br /> Well, here at HexAll drugs, your local toxin pusher, we have a great solution for your problems! Get one of our flu vaccines and you can dodge both a minor illness and 18 years od caretaking all in one shot! **</p> <p>** I know, I know my grammar is too good</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365553&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QxFZs0iJMgPRI0KhjdetPQXoL9X0DKVeplouwjU3Sgw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365553">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365554" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505385209"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>He compared Wakefield to Jesus, so…</p></blockquote> <p>Both Handley and Wakefield are legends in their own minds. So it makes sense for them to compare each other with a certain first century CE carpenter-turned-rabbi.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365554&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2j_3fDBit9qLAGY17T37PbRoKTnFTUDTyNEr82hXbk0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365554">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365555" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505386210"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Eric Lund #9, I think you are referring to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS). Vaccine Safety Datalink uses data from AVERS and other sources to monitor Vaccine safety.<br /><a href="https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html">https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.h…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365555&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UxKzq3Y3_ZROmWRSlbsSVZJ7UnQD_vT7TEoHb_CXJXA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365555">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365556" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505388438"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"an aOR of 2.0 for the 1-28 day window of exposure to the influenza vaccine before miscarriage that was not statistically significant"</p> <p>It was: "The overall adjusted odds ratio (aOR) was 2.0 (95% CI, 1.1–3.6) for vaccine receipt in the 28-day exposure window"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365556&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hjlb5_b0VRFpFp55wr4reuDeDLRo9vgvwCMUZ2nD_XQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jake Crosby (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365556">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365557" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505389096"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Both Handley and Wakefield are legends in their own minds. So it makes sense for them to compare each other with a certain first century CE carpenter-turned-rabbi.</p></blockquote> <p>Or Gene Simmons, but even that's probably too charitable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365557&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tigleGqSZ48J8si-Wv1UrdnEKcx_lO9D3RiOQ41d9LY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365557">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365558" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505389575"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OK, Jake. Now explain to us all, as someone who *should* understand statistics, why that's not statistically significant. (Hint...I hated, loathed, despised stats and I can do it).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365558&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fuuTUKc70u-Sy7byfgC2fZOe-lhgRWKQxUUwWbxsHuk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365558">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365565" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505392150"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The text was originally intended to read "barely statistically significant," which is accurate. I have altered the text to be in line with my intent. When one writes blog posts in one's spare time late at night, such things occasionally happen; one occasionally makes mistakes. The difference between a certain Gnat and me is that I correct my editing errors.</p> <p>In any event, "statistically significant" or not, given the very wide confidence intervals, the lack of robustness, and the differences between the cases and the controls in the frequency of known risk factors for spontaneous abortion (the cases being older, more likely to smoke, and more likely to have had a history of &gt;2 spontaneous abortions) the association reported is eminently unimpressive. Hmmm. I think I'll add some text very much like that to the post. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365565&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Su1t38Dc3p9hBaOSnLLJTontbA-VOIW8QSq_j4nQa_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365565">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365558#comment-1365558" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365559" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505390865"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My only comment today is going to be this: To all Orac minions a virtual cigar. My Daughter was born at about 6am PDT in Chiang Mia. She is healthy and weighed 6.2 lbs and was 19 inches long.</p> <p>Everyone have a very good day; I am going to.</p> <p>Rich</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365559&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jgS-nK3CW8ZfFCxdn06SrLIFnack03Rk-BdsqVuBpSY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365559">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365560" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505391057"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mazal tov!!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365560&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jQi6EFa5wo3ICej-sBAYNAolkSeVOYcA7tfZK8iO-Kk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365560">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365559#comment-1365559" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365568" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505393271"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congrats!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365568&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PpOrGh3EClRRGw_Et5gSLB3MC8G4Zn_oLQ5u8b10Qdc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365568">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365559#comment-1365559" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365561" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505391397"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congratulations Rich, but please keep those cigars very far away. I really hate that smell.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365561&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hhfx2G-J-UoFUq9zyAsK0yADazejjKCvlPVp_i4mKVw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365561">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365562" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505391551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Renate, that is why I said virtual cigars. I don't like them myself.</p> <p>Thanks Dorit</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365562&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FI1EBdjDbAoAF9uBS8WswYadCpjYxkPeYsr3J1jKKjQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365562">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365563" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505391667"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congratulations, Rich! Honored to share a virtual cigar with you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365563&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QtjWixFgoVdvpbPSpsNiK8p04HDAkHikxGeea5Fl3bY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365563">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365564" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505391697"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@MI Dawn:</p> <p>I won't, because it is statistically significant. Orac is wrong and should retract.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365564&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2xbxM0ceBmTygAd546jwfwU7C7moSdRwrtlTpJoJtiU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jake Crosby (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365564">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365566" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505392842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congrats, Rich! May you know much joy in your daughter. They are wonderful things to have (I know - I have 2 of them.)</p> <p>@Jake: barely, as Orac noted. My stats prof (to whom I showed this) said I was wrong, it is statistically significant. And if I tried to use such a wide CI and pass it off as significant, she'd mark me wrong unless I noted it was <b>barely significant</b>, as Orac noted above.</p> <p>And hey, unlike you, I can actually admit it if I'm wrong. Provided I ask people whose opinion I respect, and who point out my errors honestly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365566&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6oP7KGVwC60-iG1Al2VeUF-kvobFL_lRQDCLoBzgz40"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365566">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365567" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505393221"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Amusingly, The Gnat has nothing to say about the rest of my discussion, particularly the part about the post hoc subgroup analyses. If there's one thing physicians are appropriately taught about statistics, it's to distrust post hoc subgroup analyses.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365567&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AQjgFmxlAV6LvjAsfMjNPYbaSWsjkNQ65ZPnnIDDyWw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365567">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365566#comment-1365566" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365570" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505393606"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“an aOR of 2.0 for the 1-28 day window of exposure to the influenza vaccine before miscarriage that was not statistically significant”</p> <p>It was: “The overall adjusted odds ratio (aOR) was 2.0 (95% CI, 1.1–3.6) for vaccine receipt in the 28-day exposure window”</p></blockquote> <p>That is an error (which seems to derive from CIDRAP; they will eventually fix things if E-mailed), but you're also grasping at a single clause while missing the point, which is that there's no reason why two specific seasons would amount to something when neither does on its own. (<i>P</i> = 0.03 on that CI, for those scoring at home.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365570&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bPM00kECnes--O60fEOkiUWY0kTYFq5_ithyyuHdK3s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365570">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365573" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505394606"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think I was confusing a passage for individual seasons with the combined seasons, which explains the text slip. Oddly enough, I looked at my saved versions in BBEdit and saw that I originally had it right, then for some reason in an edit it changed. Ah, well. I stand by what I said about its being "barely" statistically significant, and I also note that robustness is important. This finding just isn't robust. It barely achieves statistical significance, and only then for one analysis. That's the sort of result that screams false positive.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365573&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4O3nIGFHIpNBgeJt-C2dSBJW-eXvkALpcf9VH3TAscQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365573">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365570#comment-1365570" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365571" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505393995"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is nothing magical about using p&lt;0.05 as a threshold for statistical significance. It is frequently done because there are many fields where one rarely has enough data to use a more stringent criterion, but the downside is the danger of false positives. Remember that if you are drawing data from something that has no correlation, you have a 5% chance of your sample producing p&lt;0.05. See the <a href="https://xkcd.com/882/">obligatory XKCD link</a>.</p> <p>That's even before we get into issues of systematic bias, which statistical tools generally don't handle well. The assumption is that the case group and control group are equally likely to suffer an adverse result in the absence of whatever intervention you are testing to see if it changes the risk. It sounds like the case and control groups here are not well matched, such that one would expect a priori that the case group would have more miscarriages than the control group. When that's the case, you shouldn't be surprised that the case group actually does have more miscarriages.</p> <p>So no, Jake, Orac is not wrong to say it's not statistically significant, just because it barely meets an arbitrary threshold.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365571&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GBtSdDHMsiYpOm2tmDDRVBORy-5eIIxYWpGkdiv26Jg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365571">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365574" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505394778"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Heheh. Thanks. I'm aware of all these issues, of course, but didn't see this post as the place to discuss them. For instance, in the context of discussing John Ioannidis' work, I've pointed out on at least a couple of occasions that setting the threshold for statistical significance at p≤0.05 means at least a 5% chance of a false positive but that it's actually a much higher chance than that, even in randomized clinical trials, due to undetected biases and shortcomings in carrying out the studies. In retrospective studies like this one, it's higher still. In post hoc subgroup analyses, it's the highest of all.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365574&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DPPh-hOLmQBYM9PnBp_Jmdy3wLxyscApD9XHsqKAFwg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365574">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365571#comment-1365571" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365572" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505394446"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks, Rich, but I will pass on the virtual cheroot, and instead hoist an actual adult beverage this evening in honor or the young Miss Bly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365572&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gsUZWBhu1paXZcn8TuY-6HExVBEUJJ42K4K89IIlhFU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365572">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365575" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505394867"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Orac is wrong and should retract.</p></blockquote> <p>How's your batting average with that routine lately, Jake. It might be time to outgrow amounting to basically just being a whiny little shit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365575&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f1yAgqxYW13L3cjp31jyYcSzvHsJycoPIsdH-Z6Fm4U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365575">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365576" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505395996"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There is nothing magical about using p&lt;0.05 as a threshold for statistical significance. It is frequently done because there are many fields where one rarely has enough data to use a more stringent criterion,</p></blockquote> <p>There is that, but there is also the point that a small p-value <b>is not</b> any evidence against your null, as its calculation is based on the null being precisely true.</p> <p>The original intention of a small p-value was that it was a signal of something that might be worth further investigation. We (statisticians) got off course when Neyman and Pearson ritualized classical hypothesis testing, and the teaching of p-values and their meaning has been generally poor ever since. </p> <p>And -- there is no a single bit wrong with Orac's take on the "significant" result here (as he knows, others know, and anyone who claims to understand statistics and is <b>honest</b> should know).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365576&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gdQcNI7WZSVrQ02K1ocmRG_pfn5dKQ-LjaEk0yOjrr8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dean (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365576">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365577" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505396053"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The difference between a certain Gnat and me is that I correct my editing errors.<br /></p><blockquote> <p>Lord Jake Whorfin: When's the PNAS paper coming?</p> <p>Red Socktroids: Real soon!</p></blockquote> </blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365577&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0MaqvRMBHxzZYIEJu_mT8uWgrI6xRBtvLZXA5DcW0Ks"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365577">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365578" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505396740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congrats Rich!<br /> May Baby Bly long continue to be healthy and happy...</p> <p>I have a virtual cigar joke, but I'll leave it to the minions' imaginations. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365578&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BLEFnp7TssZUcENs-PbVYW9gSmD8i1K0OxKzoGhmXtg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365578">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365579" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505397234"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For those of you seeking a moment of comic relief, Levi Quackenboss suggested that this was published by the media - who, in her world, is of course controlled by pharma (that's why they didn't publish articles when flu mist was shown ineffective, or about the problems with mumps vaccines, and so on - oh, wait) because a universal flu vaccine is nearing completion.</p> <p><a href="https://leviquackenboss.wordpress.com/2017/09/14/why-is-the-media-attacking-the-flu-vaccine/">https://leviquackenboss.wordpress.com/2017/09/14/why-is-the-media-attac…</a></p> <p>I don't think she's joking, even though it reads like satire to me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365579&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="heIXjUYH6TaSS8zNBDPAsPe9wjrAaVD_HKVrI-2B1QU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365579">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365580" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505398443"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Jake:</p> <p>Too bad you don't understand what statistical significance actually means or how it differs from clinical significance. Quite simply, if one were to randomly sample from the same population an "infinite" number of times, based on known probability distributions, one can estimate the probabilities of various outcomes, e.g. only 5% of time will a certain outcome occur and, assuming that the sampling and, in the case of a case-control study, the matching, was well done, then one assumes that the outcome relates to the hypothesized variable(s); but 5% of the time the outcome could have been brought about by variables not controlled for/random chance, regardless of how well the study was done. However, it is an artificial cut-off point for decision making and in this case as the matching was poorly done, the sample size small, it was a post-hoc analysis subject to multiple comparison problems in deciding statistical significance, and there are numerous well-done studies that do not agree, it is meaningless. But, given your rigid bias, whatever even remotely fits your ideology becomes significant.</p> <p>I find it hard to believe that you were accepted in a doctoral program at the University of Texas School of Public Health; but, then again, over the years I've met people who managed to learn things and pass exams without really understanding them.</p> <p>I suggest, to start with, you read the following:</p> <p>Merwyn Susser (1973). Causal Thinking in the Health Sciences: Concepts and Strategies in Epidemiology.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365580&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gccpj8iADBnY3IhkuJGXTonTwE1cMBqnNII_082wY-w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Joel A. Harrison, PhD, MPH">Joel A. Harris… (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365580">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365581" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505399777"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Any bets on how long it will be until some random gibberish about original antigenic sin starts making the rounds?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365581&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KwHiKbwOge1Q5XvFKLtk4BSw9wYXq4uwK7tnPdKyoiM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365581">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365582" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505401325"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's a sucker bet....</p> <p>The Gnat should go back to his self-copulatory Milo fantasies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365582&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OVAbX5G8Ch93qZL3PrmnaamWbJOe-iiJErdu5nWA_io"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365582">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365583" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505406721"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congratulations on the birth of your daughter, Rich!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365583&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1sEaFvEZc7_mabTM-DH8vFDCfqNGhYNXX5KlCHrIFYY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365583">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365584" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505407136"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That one big finding wasn't even 17 cases and controls. It was 14 cases and 4 controls! Four! This is just an astoundingly weak study and I wonder why DeStefano keeps doing these kinds of post hoc subanalyses.</p> <p>I'm also not convinced they controlled adequately. Their matching was very poor. Age groups (+/- 30 years) are far too broad. Matching by region does not account for variation within regions. If cases are more likely to be African-American, they're more likely to be worse on SES measures. I'm in one of these regions and I can tell you that we are so segregated, a random sample of AAs and whites would not be remotely comparable.</p> <p>I'm glad someone posted the jelly bean comic. That's on the outside of my cubicle wall, which I put up there after the "whistleblower" brouhaha. So much irresponsible science.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365584&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mVMgVsG16AiSfgHKrY_PhhhAQWemhuMxqLdCLUCBNZk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">[Name Redacted], MPH (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365584">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365585" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505407454"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If you torture any dataset enough with post-hoc/subroup analyses, eventually it will give you an answer you want to hear.</p> <p>But like all other forms of torture, that answer is rarely correct.</p> <p>To those of us at the coalface, diagnosing, treating and attempting to prevent life-threatening vaccine-preventable diseases, studies such as this are never considered clinically applicable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365585&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cywWm4Q8Sqyi1Ii8LheSxXvUVQwPavKXmob9Z7iOdU8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DrRJ (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365585">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365586" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505409178"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Joel A Harrison, PhD, MPH:</p> <p>Thanks for attempting to educate Jake:<br /> Lord knows, I tried and got nowhere. But it showed his bent.</p> <p>Seriously, he should have got stat basics years ago and he didn't. Needless to say, he is clueless in other ways. As well as resistant to new info/ reality.</p> <p>I would hope that other minions would chime in too. Like when people do an intervention: many voices saying the same thing in diverse ways.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365586&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G4dAAWSg3GfE2Hq23K32KoiAtzWvVsb7MsJqF6PMbI0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365586">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365587" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505412325"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"I find it hard to believe that you were accepted in a doctoral program at the University of Texas School of Public Health; but, then again, over the years I’ve met people who managed to learn things and pass exams without really understanding them." </p></blockquote> <p>Well, he's not there anymore. According to Jake's "About" page on the White Rose and Hans Litten blog: <i>"He was dismissed from the Ph.D. Epidemiology program of the University of Texas School of Public Health, due to academic misconduct by the school’s administration."</i></p> <p>But I digress...</p> <p>Yes, one of the things that academic epidemiologists keep getting wrong is translating their findings into meaningful action/practice/policy. The first thing you ask when presented with any finding is, "So what?" Then you tease it apart.</p> <p>In the case of this study, I'd ask, "So what? Actual influenza causes way more death and disability, and miscarriages, in pregnant women than the vaccine would <b>if</b> this study were valid." Even the authors of this study, the editors of the journal, and everyone worth their salt (<b>and not kicked out of a doctoral program in epidemiology</b>) have pointed out that this is not a finding on which flu vaccine policy/recommendations in women should be changed. I'd take it a step further and ask why, oh why did they publish this?</p> <p>As Orac pointed out, a matched case-control study would have been stronger. One-to-one like this, and if you draw them from a similar population, you might control so much that you stratify on a collider and get a whole new bias in there. (We saw this when they drew cases and controls from the same medical setting for the coffee-pancreatic cancer study back in the day.)</p> <p>These are very complicated issues to understand in epidemiology, so you really can't blame the public for now getting confused over this. Now, we are going to have to go get a more robust study done to explain the association seen in this one, which is a waste of time and resources. And you're going to have women who will choose to forgo the influenza vaccine in what promises to be a very active flu season if the "as Australia goes, we go" rule kicks in this winter.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365587&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q9I3hEUSea7Tg-KLVoMNfbJpreXD-N78DYuMJKN_lq4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365587">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365588" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505413984"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Ren:</p> <p>Wow, thanks for the info on Jake being kicked out of doctoral program. After I finished my PhD at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, I received a post-doctoral fellowship from the National Institutes of Health in a program at the University of Houston, applying social psychology to preventing cardiovascular disease. As part of my training, I took at MPH and then an MS in biostatistics and epidemiology at the UT School of Public Health in Houston. I still have friends there 35 years later; but, Jake was at the UT Austin campus. Still, it's a good school and hard to believe he ever even got into the program.</p> <p>And I do remember the coffee-pancreatic cancer study, published in the top journal, New England Journal of Medicine if I recall. </p> <p>By the way, even if there was a rare chance of the flu vaccine contributing to a miscarriage, though there isn't, full blown flu in the first trimester would affect far more with devastating consequences. As I mentioned above, antivaccinationists, thanks to vaccines and never having seen the results of the vaccine preventable diseases, downplay the risks from them. I remember kids with iron braces and one in an iron lung. Not memories I cherish and I was in first cohort to get the Salk vaccine in 1955.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365588&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aBqGpexiLyAAwQ8GxLy67tY3G28eZCwp7DUcP-gttM0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Joel A. Harrison, PhD, MPH">Joel A. Harris… (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365588">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365589" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505414378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I believe MI Dawn may have touched on this and I am probably veering horribly outside my lane, but wouldn't women with a prior history of problem pregnancies (including miscarriages) be more likely to also be getting flu vaccines? I would think their physicians would strongly recommend it as part of a regimen of risk reduction.</p> <p>I'll return to betting whether I can persuade the niece and nephew to eat bell peppers stuffed with sauteed garlic chicken livers, black beans with feta. My guess is not. There's a reason for that bag of chicken nuggets in the freezer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365589&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0c2cQkJ4ZY_dmTesAoQAALD4ilRNaqFiYZgV7e8H388"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365589">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365590" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505414413"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>due to academic misconduct by the school’s administration.</i></p> <p>Roughly translated: "Failure to recognise my genius and originality".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365590&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cyU6SYxYJdagEu2BTOzu12FAVYMLXCGZDphCYPPk-yY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365590">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365591" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505423109"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Where do you get garlic chickens?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365591&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X3EoWnbFwBilXelbUcekNzJLLQoo0oijl_3yzBjBqiM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365591">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365592" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505424245"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’ll return to betting whether I can persuade the niece and nephew to eat bell peppers stuffed with sauteed garlic chicken livers, black beans with feta. My guess is not.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh man, that sounds good. My host granny in Russia used to make chicken livers with some kind of garlic sour cream sauce and serve it over buckwheat. I <i>love</i> that.</p> <p>I have a few things planned: chana masala, fattoush with homemade Arabic bread, a spicy Palestinian shrimp recipe. Jambalaya for company at some point after this part of hunting season is over (my brother has been requesting it.) Plus I'm sure typical stuff like pizza and some sort of meat-and-potatoes. </p> <p>I hear you on the nephews. I made a bunch of Palestinian food a while back and, well, at least they liked the bread and the rice-and-vermicelli pilaf.</p> <p>Honestly, my brother can be almost as much of a challenge sometimes.</p> <p>I mean, if we're going to devolve to talking about food... :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365592&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BClYEt1fnVbie61o_8iwI3tSqYhp_ncHIcqmuQlMVtI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365592">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365593" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505427071"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I hear you on the nephews. I made a bunch of Palestinian food a while back and, well, at least they liked the bread and the rice-and-vermicelli pilaf.</p></blockquote> <p>M'judra/mujaddara is a pretty popular comfort food; the Palestinian fellow at the Cornell Dollar says his kids love it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365593&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8zWuw7zN_b2pFe1COnD3DGi2Ee2rldeMzzl37cJiMSc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365593">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365594" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505427756"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP #52</p> <p>Like most kids, they sometimes have a limited view of what foods they will even try. Unfortunately, at ages of about seven and six for the niece and nephew, we and their parents made a few mistakes on a vacation - raw oysters, fresh lobster, mussels, and softshell crab. Do not, I say again, do not give children the chance to acquire expensive tastes. We thought the texture of the oysters would put them off and the others would be too strong a flavor. We were very wrong and they could both pack those items in like harvest hands, given the chance, even at those few years. Do you have any idea how embarrassing and unseemly it was to squabble with a seven-year-old for my fair share those things at my age?</p> <p>/thread hijack mode off</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365594&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k96QavIYVk2uKwBaCCtvuRVkvCAfJnVgweb4D04mOVw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365594">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365595" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505428134"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>M’judra/mujaddara is a pretty popular comfort food; the Palestinian fellow at the Cornell Dollar says his kids love it.<br /></p><blockquote> <p>The baby/toddler actually ate a little of everything, including the fish and the fattoush; it's the four year old who is impossibly picky. (He definitely gets it from his dad.)</p> <p>@sirhcton:</p> <p>I can empathise with the kids when it comes to seafood; I'm a big fan of shellfish. Probably picked it up from when we used to go to the coast when I was a kid and harvest tons of them and cook and eat them outdoors. (With butter and garlic or course.)</p> <p>I haven't had oysters since the last time I was at the coast a year ago. Dang it, now I will be thinking of them!</p></blockquote> </blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365595&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KQle91VbTrY9CMwdvlsbZv1HPqi-cOXqCLJjccfDREw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365595">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365596" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505429391"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I guess Mike Adams and the gaggle of morons at Age of Autism missed this part.</p></blockquote> <p>This did at least elicit a Gerg classic, in which he apparently accidentally <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/09/flu-vaccine-and-miscarriage.html?cid=6a00d8357f3f2969e201b8d2aa57db970c#comment-6a00d8357f3f2969e201b8d2aa57db970c">throws Thompson under the bus</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365596&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EcrJ3S5iaV1La8D8MtWtnU9cHBwfUkUVWX81BNz1L40"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365596">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365597" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505455481"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Rich Bly,<br /> Congrats and hope the mom &amp; baby are doing well.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365597&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nYCCfL20Fg5Gb4T1yaUIDXeEn1DApW8hf2IL2TaVerw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeMa (not verified)</span> on 15 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365597">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365598" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505467258"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>More on Mike ( Natural News, yesterday):</p> <p>Not only do vaccines cause miscarriages but they complement a covert depopulation plan involving spiked foods as well as other vaccines' dire effects, Planned Parenthood's focus on aborting non-whites and other monstrous atrocities. </p> <p>He read it in the NYT ( 1969 article quoted)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365598&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nc11QU03LDnMTq29B_AP0XnbVQkA7ocXWi6SZKc4oi4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 15 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365598">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365599" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505491407"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I couldn't find a copy of the entire paper (for free), so I've just read the abstract. It's not clear from reading the abstract whether the authors adjusted for procedures known to increase SAB, such as amniocentesis. Additionally, given the short interval of follow-up, it seems like a cohort study would have been a much stronger study design.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365599&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j1XhtDeNTBtA0M6BbaoJL-xRcQhAqr6DnwckBs_DGzY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Devbani Raha (not verified)</span> on 15 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365599">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365600" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505591561"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So Jake is right for once, and, as you would expect, he handles it with all the grace and composure you would expect.</p> <p><a href="http://www.autisminvestigated.com/david-gorski-vaccine-miscarriage/">http://www.autisminvestigated.com/david-gorski-vaccine-miscarriage/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365600&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DiyufojylgU0MCvIS4lKJ67DN_7VqpJifAPFdZ52IJA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 16 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365600">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365601" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505592315"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've a comment in moderation, and I expect that y'all will say there is too much expectation for such a simple post. Don't expect me to disagree. </p> <p>Can a brother get a preview button up in this place? Or am I expected to just scroll back and re-read what I type to see if it meets my own expectations? I expect I know the answer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365601&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ia8rS5lX3JV1bXrnZwEEqqwdcn1LUI68_RyEBy0MUMU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 16 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365601">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365602" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505595164"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't know if it does cause flu vaccines, but all I know is that all the good chemistry jokes argon. ?</p> <p><a href="https://m.facebook.com/pg/3MPhilippines/posts/?ref=page_internal&amp;mt_nav=1#!/3MPhilippines/photos/a.244423475654213.53293.141670465929515/1412626802167202/?type=3&amp;source=48">https://m.facebook.com/pg/3MPhilippines/posts/?ref=page_internal&amp;mt_nav…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365602&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PFZzCO8U1POxdicbiSR7Y8UmgZRXG7RtdEq2TBeuSL8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Curious Scientist (not verified)</span> on 16 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365602">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365603" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505595403"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Can a brother get a preview button up in this place?</p></blockquote> <p>I suspect that, in your heart of hearts, you already know the answer to that question.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365603&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AQlXTXZJ3_uNNXP_lHHh3OuSAhWhMGLKCVR3fie5X7o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 16 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365603">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365604" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505644095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Johnny:</p> <p>Thanks for that link.</p> <p>I think Jake is attempting to rescue his self esteem after being booted... I mean DISMISSED from UT:</p> <p>-Notice that he himself found an error which Orac, PhD MD and two epis ( PhD Joel and PhD C Ren) missed.<br /> - he includes a video of his triumphant ( heh) debate with Orac.<br /> - he introduces Orac in Mike Adamsian fashion<br /> - he grandiosely refers to himself in the third person as editor<br /> - and didn't get the point of what Orac and commenters wrote</p> <p>A few years ago, just prior to his study at GW, I warned him that his web activities and woo positions might doom his chances at a career in SB professions. </p> <p>So I suppose I was right: </p> <p>he won't ever work legitimately and has to be content editing/ writing a childish web project whilst pretending to be both a journalist and a scientist. </p> <p>His family has enough money that he may eventually become a film maker *a la* AJW or Gary Null or even hit the big time with a web scandal sheet like dear old Mikey or Bolen .Maybe he'll write an expose tome published at Skyhorse.</p> <p>BUT like Kim and Mark and others at AoA, their 'careers" don't exist outside a very narrow internet niche of partisans.</p> <p>Do any of them teach anywhere? Or work as reporters? Or have clients/ patients**? I don't think so.</p> <p>** Unfortunately, some real woo-meisters do have clients who pay for quackery. Not a goal anyone should aspire to.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365604&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l9clppaLu08oLSYRYaVaZsKb-ut8dpz3hCon5SpszBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365604">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365605" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505646349"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I didn't bother to look at The Gnat's little tirade; so thanks for the summary. (Why waste time and brain cells, after all?) I used to feel sorry for The Gnat because he's just so damned pathetic, but over the last couple of years, his complete embrace of the alt right (including its racism and misogyny) along with his continued embrace of antivaccine pseudoscience (not to mention his general nastiness) has led me to cease to have any sympathy or empathy for him. He's just not worth it. He's an adult; he's made his choices; and those choices are, by and large, despicable.</p> <p>I'm sure The Gnat's little rant will soon find its way to Natural News; that's how low The Gnat has fallen.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365605&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OJf2GsJfyDT4m8-OoEQL5DqJBhKIaTuwzDx-VA0ROlw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365605">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365604#comment-1365604" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365606" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505648919"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This sentence is also wrong: "Basically, the study found zero (that’s right: zero, nada, zilch) association between miscarriage and flu vaccination—with one exception: if the woman had consecutively received a flu vaccine containing the 2009 H1N1 virus."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365606&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dEuYyvzblAuML-PAkBZVyybQvyYVt3YXYE64WXAxyX4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jake Crosby (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365606">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365607" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505649719"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hmm. I hear The Gnat buzzing again. Amazing how he focuses in on one single sentence. It's certainly because he can't deconstruct the whole post or otherwise show why this study's result is not a statistical fluke when even the authors of the study admit that it almost certainly is, even as they ask for more funding to do a followup study. To humor The Gnat, I deleted that sentence, which was a holdover that I forgot to delete the first mistake.</p> <p>That's because, unlike The Gnat, I am intellectually honest.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365607&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OYdPT7ZPkupGxQlHvKgqCGV40byZ_-RytO-N_Ow-wHM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365607">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365608" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505652259"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac talks about how JC "focuses in on one single sentence" and " can't deconstruct the whole" :<br /> believe me there's a name for that but I'm not allowed to say that / too much like a diagnosis.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365608&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a0Db9snwUpM4v1rRE73BwqXM-yzCRHa6jUiKFaZVbVI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365608">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365609" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505656194"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Now that Jacob Crosby, MPH, has been expunged from the Ph.D. program at the University of Texas I suppose that he, as an advocate of accuracy in media, will have many hours available to correct the misstatements that he has promulgated. </p> <p>Indeed, as Narad suggested, it might be time for Toxic Boy to update his readers on the expected publication date of the <i>Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</i> article in which, Crosby claimed, William Thompson would (in May 2016!) repudiate his statements that MMR was associated with an increased risk of ASD in a subset of African-American boys because Thompson was bribed with a “huge bonus” and the promise of “his own autism research foundation.” Etc.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365609&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z9PuiEm99T9ukrvg9BVZbVorCbulaxawfVFt_RIQg78"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365609">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365610" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505657971"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac (#67) writes,</p> <p>I am intellectually honest.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>And intellectually adaptive. </p> <p>I really appreciate the picture you used at the beginning of this post.</p> <p>You could have used this dreadful image from Naturalnews.com</p> <p><a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/640/Medical/Background-Vaccine-Latex-Glove-Syringe-Flu-Shot.jpg">http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/640/Medical/Background-Vaccine-Latex…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365610&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4EyYtbtJOJ3B0TobOx5AvDWOO7qigO2iIsr9o7uLxy8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365610">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365611" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505658994"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"That’s because, unlike The Gnat, I am intellectually honest."</p> <p>There is that. There is also the fact that you have an understanding of statistics, which he does not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365611&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w3jaD8Poy5YWsPN-1kaKxhgu9o0ij5XP1uFppDw9vIw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dean (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365611">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365612" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505659183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> I think Jake is attempting to rescue his self esteem after being booted… </p></blockquote> <p>Jake has always had delusions of adequacy, stretching back to his AoA days. Sure, the rise of Orange Thinskin brought out a bit of a darker side in the lad. But I haven't noticed any changes in his posts after his departure from UT to suggest that it had that big of an effect on him.</p> <blockquote><p> A few years ago, just prior to his study at GW, I warned him that his web activities and woo positions might doom his chances at a career in SB professions. </p></blockquote> <p>DW, I love you like a sister, and you're right, you did warn him. But that's like predicting that the sun will come up in the morning - it didn't take any real skill. Everybody knew he was torpedoing his chances for any real job in the science or health industry, and his current on line activities, much like Captain Sockpuppet, will limit his employment in about any other job. </p> <p>Of course, while everyone knew it, you did try to honestly warn him, and that counts for something. I also remember that he dismissed your warnings. </p> <p>Some people learn from others. Some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.</p> <blockquote><p> His family has enough money... </p></blockquote> <p>The question is, will mommy ever get tired of giving him handouts? Will he ever realize that he's never earned a thing for himself? Will he ever think that (after what? 30 years?) 'maybe I should be able to live on my own'? Mommy and daddy have bought him a fine education (fine credentials, anyway), and he should be at least filing his own income taxes, not being carried as a dependent. But other than maybe earning a few hundred cross posting his 'work' at Epoch, he's never mentioned having a job.</p> <p>Someday, that might bother him. Or not. He might be happy being a sponge.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365612&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ah2pOkJZfCmEBd-I2hhcGElFukVCSOPVYIJm5d9acxA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365612">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365613" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505678357"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"Notice that he himself found an error which Orac, PhD MD and two epis ( PhD Joel and PhD C Ren) missed."</p></blockquote> <p>That would be DrPH C Ren. Unlike the PhD types -- with all due respect -- I'm not too interested in academic research. I'm more about taking that research and putting it into practice... If I finish. The thesis has taken a life of its own.</p> <p>Maybe I should keep it simple?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365613&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="45_oaorWvch0g9kerrj1ESifQ6SCvfZNq1Cdj8Nzh7M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 17 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365613">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365614" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505903047"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I note that Jake has let a post by the lovely and talented Rebecca Fisher appear under her own name. I believe it's the first in quite a while that he hasn't edited to change her name to 'Brian Deer'.</p> <p><a href="http://www.autisminvestigated.com/david-gorski-vaccine-miscarriage/#comment-287188">http://www.autisminvestigated.com/david-gorski-vaccine-miscarriage/#com…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365614&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f8q3pZqJnukkp9mGX0S7cfZgMLtnYRzu13WyEyzJ7rA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 20 Sep 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1365614">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/09/14/does-the-flu-vaccine-cause-miscarriages%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:50:50 +0000 oracknows 22623 at https://scienceblogs.com The check must have finally cleared, or: Mawson's incompetent "vaxed/unvaxed" study is back online https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/18/the-check-must-have-finally-cleared-or-mawsons-incompetent-vaxedunvaxed-study-is-back-online <span>The check must have finally cleared, or: Mawson&#039;s incompetent &quot;vaxed/unvaxed&quot; study is back online</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It looks as though the check has finally cleared.</p> <p>You might be wondering what I'm referring to. A little more than a week ago, I took note of how a truly awful survey masquerading as a "study" had <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/08/a-horrendously-bad-vaxedunvaxed-study-rises-from-the-dead-yet-again/">risen from the dead once again</a> as <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/09/a-boatload-of-fail-were-two-horrendously-bad-zombie-vaxedantivaxed-studies-retracted/">two</a> publications in a notorious bottom-feeding predatory "open access" journal after having <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/11/29/antivaccinationists-promote-a-bogus-internet-survey-hilarity-ensues-as-its-retracted/">been retracted</a> after publication in a somewhat less notorious but similarly bottom-feeding predatory "open access" journal. Whether or not these studies were actually retracted the second time around is <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/10/the-mawson-vaxedunvaxed-study-retraction-the-antivaccine-movement-reacts-with-tears-of-unfathomable-sadness/">somewhat unclear</a>. What is known is that they were on the Open Access Text (OAT) website, and then they weren't.</p> <!--more--><p><a href="http://retractionwatch.com/2017/05/08/retracted-vaccine-autism-study-republished/">Retraction Watch reported</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> For the second time, a journal has quickly retracted a study that suggested vaccines raise the risk of autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders.</p> <p>The study first raised a furor last year, prompting a Frontiers journal to quickly retract it. After it was republished in the Journal of Translational Science this month, that journal has also retracted it.</p> <p>Although the titles of the two papers changed, the abstracts were nearly identical. Both studies surveyed the parents of 666 home-schooled children, 39% of whom where not vaccinated, and concluded that vaccination increased the risk of neurodevelopmental problems, particularly if children were born prematurely.</p> <p>A representative of the <em>Journal of Translational Science</em> told us “Pilot comparative study on the health of vaccinated and unvaccinated 6- to 12-year-old U.S. children” has been retracted, and it will update us with an explanation. </p></blockquote> <p>Not surprisingly, that never happened, and the mystery remained. Someone from the journal told Retraction Watch that the studies had been retracted, and then yesterday people started noticing that they were back on OAT website. Not surprisingly, given the nature of OAT journals, including the <em>Journal of Translational Science</em>, the jokes about the check finally having cleared wrote themselves. My purpose here is not to reiterate what's wrong with the two studies, the first of which purported to show that vaccinated children are much unhealthier than unvaccinated children, and the second of which purported to show that the only reason premature birth is a risk factor for neurodevelopmental disorders is because of vaccines. I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/08/a-horrendously-bad-vaxedunvaxed-study-rises-from-the-dead-yet-again/">discussed them</a> both in <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/09/a-boatload-of-fail-were-two-horrendously-bad-zombie-vaxedantivaxed-studies-retracted/">great detail</a> quite <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/05/10/the-mawson-vaxedunvaxed-study-retraction-the-antivaccine-movement-reacts-with-tears-of-unfathomable-sadness/">enough</a>. I'm more interested in what this whole incident shows about the bankruptcy of antivaccine "science." Whatever happened, the CMSRI is gloating that the studies are back:</p> <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FCMSRI.ChildrensMedicalSafetyResearchInstitute%2Fposts%2F1613974925298973&amp;width=500" width="500" height="689" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe><p> For instance, there's Celeste McGovern, some of whose antivaccine nonsense I missed last week, referring to the study as the "<a href="http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/big-taboo" rel="nofollow">big taboo</a>." That's how antivaxers always portray themselves, as the persecuted warriors for "truth" while those evil "skeptics" (or "Skeptics," as McGovern refers to them) are trying to "suppress" that truth. Here, she <a href="http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/big-taboo" rel="nofollow">describes what happened when a Frontiers journal</a> first retracted the Mawson paper:</p> <blockquote><p> There was no thought or delay in the Skeptic response. They did not waste time with letters of inquiry or professional concern. They did not wait to consider the methodology or the data or its interpretation or to read the full discussion. </p></blockquote> <p>Um, no. It was apparent from what we knew about the genesis of the survey and from the abstract itself that the methodology was without merit. McGovern was only getting started, though:</p> <p>They jeered and screamed “anti-vaxx” – which is the equivalent of ‘racist’ or ‘sexist’ and thrown like a bludgeon at anyone, even a credible professor and researcher with a 30-year career, who questions the safety of the expanding use of this particular type of pharmaceutical product for children. “Anti-vaxx” is a silencer.</p> <p>A fumbling editor at Frontiers tweeted in haste that the study had only been provisionally accepted and the review would be re-opened “in response to concerns raised.”</p> <p>One skeptic is gloating that he is solely responsible for blighting the entire study consideration process:</p> <blockquote><p> “I pride myself to have caused the Frontiers anti-vaxx retraction with one tweet!” Leonid Schneider tweeted this week. “The anti-vaxx paper was published as abstract, a reader alerted me, I tweeted, Frontiers got scared, pulled the paper.”</p> <p>Even Retraction Watch reported the story that way. After receiving criticism on Twitter, Frontiers released a public statement, noting that the study was only “provisionally accepted but not published,” and is being re-reviewed. “ </p></blockquote> <p>I described <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/11/29/antivaccinationists-promote-a-bogus-internet-survey-hilarity-ensues-as-its-retracted/">what happened when it happened</a>. From my perspective, the study was so bad that even a Frontiers journal considered it too bad to complete the publication process and publish the entire article. So Mawson shopped the paper around and found a journal with even lower standards than a Frontiers journal.</p> <p>McGovern then addresses the most recent "retraction" (or whatever the temporary "depublishing" of Mawson's papers was):</p> <blockquote><p> Now, an editor at the <em>Journal of Translational Science</em> has bowed to these forces again. Retraction Watch reports that the study has been “retracted – again.” But there has been no formal statement issued by the journal. I emailed the Editor in Chief, Terry Lichtor, a professor at Arkansas State University, twice. When I didn’t hear from him I called the London office and was told they would telephone him to make sure he got my questions. The person on the phone seemed to know about my emails. I’ve had no reply.</p> <p>I contacted two editors at Retraction Watch and asked if they weren’t using the term “retracted” rather loosely for the study, considering the professional ethics and implications. No reply.</p> <p>“With millions of views, the concerns that this study raises will not be easily wiped away from the public consciousness,” says Claire Dwoskin, founder of the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute, which contributed to funding for the study.</p> <p> “It would more greatly serve the interests of public health and science to replicate the study on a larger scale and determine the accuracy of the results, rather than harkening back to a time where book burning and persecution of scientists reigned the day. If the study is not restored on the journal's website, it may be fair to conclude that some of the lessons of the past have not been learned after all.” </p></blockquote> <p>This is the dodge that all quacks and pseudoscience advocates fall back on whenenver their terrible scientific methodology and bogus studies are criticized. In the case of one of the studies, we know that one of its key findings is so out of whack with what is known from many, many, many high quality studies dating back to the 1970s showing that premature birth is a major risk factor for neurodevelopmental disorders that it was a huge red flag. Moreover, the methodology and statistical analyses of the studies were so bad, so incompetently carried out, that it's quite safe to say that the results are almost certainly invalid. There is no need for "further research," at least not based on Mawson's utter dreck of a couple of studies. But I do love how predictable McGovern is in crying, "Persecution!" and comparing a retraction to a book burning.</p> <p>She also, like most antivaxers, misunderstands what scientists mean when they refer to a finding as "settled science":</p> <blockquote><p> But people who say “vaccine science is settled” are being dishonest. Science is never settled. By its very nature, science questions orthodoxies and constantly seeks and discovers new things. </p></blockquote> <p>Well, yes, but not quite how McGovern means it. There are certain findings in science that are so well-supported by evidence that the burden of evidence to change or refute these findings is very, very high. Such findings are considered "settled science." That's not to say that they are findings that will never be changed or even radically altered; rather, it's a recognition of just how high the bar is to challenge findings in terms of evidence, given the level of evidence supporting the them.</p> <p>I like to use homeopathy as an example because it is so incredibly, ridiculously improbable and for homeopathy to work huge swaths of existing chemistry and science would have gto be not just wrong, but spectacularly wrong. Even so, I concede the tiny possibility that this much science might be wrong but point out that to demonstrate that homeopathy "works" would take a mass of evidence at least as large, high quality, and compelling as the existing scientific evidence supporting current theory in physics and chemistry. One little study won't do it. But that's what homepathy advocates cite.</p> <p>The same is true for antivaxers. Although it is less implausible that vaccines might cause autism than that homeopathy works, it is still very, very implausible indeed, based on a large, robust, and mutually reinforcing body of scientific research from multiple disciplines. Two crappy "studies" based on a crappy "survey" of an unrepresentative population, which, when you come right down to it is all Mawson's "studies" are, won't seriously challenge the existing scientific consensus that vaccines are not a risk factor for autism. Not even close!</p> <p>None of this stops McGovern from engaging in the common crank fantasy of ultimate vindication:</p> <blockquote><p> Skeptics have closed ranks against this one line of inquiry. We don’t know how important that line is. But we can be pretty sure that history repeats itself and when medical history textbooks are rewritten a long time from now, there will be names of medical heroes like Semelweiss in there, people who challenged orthodoxy and went where no one wanted to go. And there will be brief allusions to the hordes of nameless scientific fools who impeded medical progress while countless children suffered. </p></blockquote> <p>Of course, skeptics have not "closed ranks against this one line of inquiry." We merely point out how incompetently Mawson and other antivaxers engage in this line of inquiry. After all, it's not as though real scientists (as opposed to antivaccine scientists) haven't done "vaxed/unvaxed" studies before comparing health outcomes between the two groups. <a href="https://thoughtscapism.com/2015/04/10/myth-no-studies-compare-the-health-of-unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-people/">There have been several such studies</a>. And guess what? The results aren't what antivaxers would have you believe. Such studies have generally found either that there is no difference between the health of vaccinated and unvaccinated children or that vaccinated children are actually healthier. But that's not what people like McGovern want to hear.</p> <p>I can't help but finish with a very old "friend" of the blog, J.B. Handley, founder of the antivaccine group Generation Rescue:</p> <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fjbhandleyjr%2Fposts%2F1667710203269128&amp;width=500" width="500" height="631" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe><blockquote> If you're confused, you're not alone. And just to clarify: this study has NEVER been retracted, only removed by two journals, and re-published by the second one...Starting to think this is the study that just "won't go away!" </blockquote> <p>I notice that <a href="http://bit.ly/2rhtMpO" rel="nofollow">The Gnat</a> also thinks I wouldn't address this. Silly Gnat.</p> <p>No, it is, as I referred to it before, the zombie study. Or the Jason study. Or the Michael Myers study. Or the Freddy Krueger study. Or pick the name of your favorite movie monster that appears to die at the end of one movie and always returns for another movie to kill again. I hope Retraction Watch will follow up on what happened, but somehow I doubt that there will ever be a coherent answer to the question of what happened here. My best guess remains that the check finally cleared, because Mawson's study is so bad that even a pay-to-publish journal balked.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Thu, 05/18/2017 - 01:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/anthony-mawson" hreflang="en">Anthony Mawson</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/childrens-medical-safety-research-institute" hreflang="en">Children&#039;s Medical Safety Research Institute</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/claire-dwoskin" hreflang="en">Claire Dwoskin</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/jb-handley" hreflang="en">j.b. handley</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/retraction-watch" hreflang="en">Retraction Watch</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/survey" hreflang="en">survey</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccines" hreflang="en">vaccines</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/physical-sciences" hreflang="en">Physical Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359257" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495085446"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Orac:</p> <p>In a recent post, you cited the "thoughtscapism" blog article on "vax-unvax" studies. </p> <p>Orac sattes: " it is a myth that there are no studies comparing the health of vaccinated children compared to unvaccinated children. In fact, there have been several. It turns out that they don’t show what antivaxers think a vaxed/unvaxed study will show. Basically, all of the vaxed/unvaxed studies not done by antivaccine-friendly scientists or quacks have shown either no differences in the prevalence of neurodevelopmental or chronic diseases between vaccinated children and unvaccinated children"</p> <p>The studies cited did not actually look at neurodevelopmental or chronic disease outcomes (except for asthma and allergies). No vax-unvax study has ever looked at utism ADHD etc. All the alleged vax-unvax studies have severe problems that render the results irrelevant to the CDC vaccine schedule and how vaccines are used today. </p> <p>The studies you cite are debunked here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/alleged-vax-unvaxed-debunked/">http://vaccinepapers.org/alleged-vax-unvaxed-debunked/</a></p> <p>Go look. Its clear these vax-unvax studies are not as you describe.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359257&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yFytXfv-qA9k_DbyL4grcjF5xI68GI2wcqhzXEPVtVE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359257">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359258" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495088207"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've seen your "rebuttal" before and laughed. Part of the reason is that, yes, such studies have problems, but for some reason you seem to think the Mawson study as having "strengths and weaknesses" (as you put it in the comments) when in fact it has zero strengths that I've been able to find and glaring weaknesses that make it so bad that it's basically useful for nothing more than lining a bird cage. As for bias, you seem oblivious to the bias in the Mawson study. As for the third study, I like Matt Carey's take on it:</p> <p><a href="https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2014/01/22/a-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-and-guess-what-vaccinated-kids-do-better-on-tests/">https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2014/01/22/a-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinat…</a></p> <p>And then:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/10/21/are-unvaccinated-children-more-healthy-than-vaccinated-children/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/10/21/are-unvaccinated-children-…</a></p> <p>You see healthy user bias everywhere, whether it actually exists or not. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359258&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qX8UlZI9q9yqpETD4L14gJfvYcj1Kj6sWwVW40uQ_ZQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359258">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359257#comment-1359257" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359259" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495088827"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>hi Orac</p> <p>The Mawson study has a few strengths that make it unique:<br /> 1) comparing fully vaccinated with zero-vaccine groups. And by fully vaccinated, I mean the US CDC schedule. Not a wimpy schedule with just a few vaccines. There is a large difference in vaccine exposure in the compared groups. None of the vax-unvax studies you cite (via the thoughtscapism blog) do this. </p> <p>2) Looking at a variety of long term neurodevelopmental and immune outcomes. None of the thoughtscapism-cited studies do this either. </p> <p>3) Good matching on socioeconomic status and income. The Bloom (Philippines) study is terrible in this regard. That all subjects were homeschooled adds to the matching. </p> <p>4) The substantial size of the study. 666 subjects isnt too shabby. The KIGGS study had only 50 subjects with zero vaccines age 6+. The bloom study had only 85 fully vaccinated subjects. </p> <p>Of course I agree there are weaknesses, like the fact is a survey and that parents were not interviewed. But I you have not explained in detail why this is such a fatal problem. All studies have weaknesses and I just dont see how the survey issue is a big enough problem to make it as terrible as you say. You are overreacting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359259&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tbd6Wt3zlFVsXFazuoxmGOcYMUBm0rkAGEkrGPT4qxY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359259">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359260" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495089115"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Healthy user bias IS everywhere in vaccine world. HUB explains why observational (i.e. nonrandomized) vaccine safety studies consistently fail to detect adverse outcomes. </p> <p>Did you see this new result with the DTP vaccine? 5X higher mortality Orac. And it was a great study with randomization. </p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/high-mortality-dtp-vaccine/">http://vaccinepapers.org/high-mortality-dtp-vaccine/</a></p> <p>HUB also explains why all the MMR-autism study results are wrong. Its a systematic source of bias that affects MMR studies particularly strongly. Thats because infants injured by the first 6 months of vaccines dont getr MMR. The parents stop vaccinating after their terrible experience. These vaccine-injured children are used as controls in the MMR studies. </p> <p>OOOOOPS!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359260&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_JZWLBuMg4tGS7ju-5HRCODuT7Stnuc1NnRvo2_ZUas"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359260">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359261" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495089218"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"...we can be pretty sure that history repeats itself and when medical history textbooks are rewritten a long time from now, there will be names of medical heroes like Semelweiss in there, people who challenged orthodoxy and went where no one wanted to go."</p> <p>I can be even more sure that medical history texts of the future will not be loaded with fulsome praise of John Brinkley (who implanted goat testes into men to improve their virility), or the people who challenged "orthodoxy" by doing wholesale lobotomies for mental illness, or the antivax quacks like Mark Geier who've inflicted chemical castration drugs on autistic boys.</p> <p>"Orthodoxy" (a.k.a. evidence-based medical practice) of the future is extremely unlikely to remember Mawson and his cheerleaders kindly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359261&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CWWd3xUmMdiESuLfyWEcRSmQJrC_IRZqwyEvMDDHrxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359261">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359262" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495090501"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Silly Gnat. </p></blockquote> <p>You say 'silly', but downright disgusting is more like it. </p> <p>Check out this new comment on his blog -<br /><a href="http://www.autisminvestigated.com/new-american-measles/#comment-275013">http://www.autisminvestigated.com/new-american-measles/#comment-275013</a></p> <p>I'm pretty sure we have a darn good example of Jake's editing here - as in editing a comment to say something the poster never said, or ever thought.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359262&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u84TiBw43C4P3JmP9mib6r7ZMXnEMJpaK9Ia395gYiY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359262">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359263" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495091508"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>WTF? Thanks for bringing that to my attention Johnny. What a shitweasel Jake Crosby has become.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359263&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rXNHwPfe2943YkiiE82hKEyDIKOPfZqVpX0PLUfga1U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359263">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359264" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495093220"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There have also been at least three studies that addresssed neurodevelopmental issues and vaccination rates. They found no difference.</p> <p>A. A relatively small study looked at rates of ASD among vaccinated and unvaccinated siblings.<br /><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23045216">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23045216</a></p> <p>B. Smith and Woods looked at on schedule vaccination in the first year and neurodevelopmental outcomes.<br /><a href="http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/6/1134.abstract">http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/6/1134.abstract</a></p> <p>Destefano looked at rates and ASD.<br /><a href="http://jpeds.com/webfiles/images/journals/ympd/JPEDSDeStefano.pdf">http://jpeds.com/webfiles/images/journals/ympd/JPEDSDeStefano.pdf</a></p> <p>The recent meta analysis also looked at vaccines.</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24814559/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24814559/</a></p> <p>None are perfect, but there is data on that, and it will take more than a fatally flawed study to counter that.</p> <p>I'm still trying to figure out the hypothesis. Unless the claim is that even one vaccine somehow does something irreversible besides generate immunity, what's the supposed difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated children?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359264&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r-aDxUgerd2wBjQSKspnCUjy472BleRCP5a1tjnEk-w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359264">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359265" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495093810"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm getting bored with the zombie metaphor, so I came up with one of my own.</p> <p>Anti-vaccine studies are like a clown car act, where the clowns trip around trying to get the car restarted. All cheer when the car rattles off, but the car still runs into the scenery as it putters away.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359265&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="89J-1jslzjBVOpRtggkbd-qNgw7ZBx9ioU3-QhSfilk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359265">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359275" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495107908"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While I like the imagery of a clown car to describe an antivaccine study (and indeed have referred to antivaccine blogs as "clown cars" in the past), I'm having trouble visualizing how this metaphor works... :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359275&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bxHDhkeKPjI0DUlvQHgIy88BZ9tCYphaIGn34DdU5Ss"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359275">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359265#comment-1359265" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359266" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495095572"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Christine: The thing about clown cars is that they usually contain several more clowns than you would expect to fit in a car that size. Which, come to think of it, works as a metaphor for the anti-vax crowd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359266&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z-LqVuGHS2AwO8z9ysmApcIy8mNnd2zF8vRP8xh-EKQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359266">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359267" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495100045"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac writes,</p> <p>It looks as though the check has finally cleared.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>An "open access" journal publication is simply a means of getting information into the public domain.</p> <p>For some, it's not about "ego".........it's about connection.</p> <p>I've been there (i.e., pay to publish) and would like to connect again if I had something to share that was worth the effort and expense.</p> <p>Open Access Publication = Sharing is caring</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359267&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rtyRgWW7nJDYpSrdotprgePGSmknylgphraN36YDCsM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359267">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359268" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495101049"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Eric Lund: I think it actually works literally rather than a metaphor. They ARE a bunch of clowns and there are always more of them than one might think possible.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359268&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rUu0g0ftQc4pb1n26LazvNPJkjKLolUbrGouM1M2m-o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Edward (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359268">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359269" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495102511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think it is time for us to develop our own bottom feeding science journal. We could call the journal, JUICES: Journal of Unreliable, Irresponsible, Crazy, Ethereal Studies.</p> <p>If I don't comment again today or tomorrow morning, my next comments will be from Chiang Mia, Thailand.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359269&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LYXf0TsAedtnUEGGfazC7EISOvoKAuXgMyO5J6u7Otw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359269">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359270" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495103197"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So, the VP troll above thinks this is a legitimate study, even though no attempt was made to actually confirm any of the survey answers?</p> <p>It's selection bias at its worst.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359270&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s17_EaNvPomJpM3NRVod4zqV4k0XrAonM-8KKbdVnLs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359270">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359271" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495103224"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>3) Good matching on socioeconomic status and income. The Bloom (Philippines) study is terrible in this regard. That all subjects were homeschooled adds to the matching. </p></blockquote> <p>It doesn't "add" to the matching, it reduced the external validity.</p> <blockquote><p>4) The substantial size of the study. 666 subjects isnt too shabby. The KIGGS study had only 50 subjects with zero vaccines age 6+. The bloom study had only 85 fully vaccinated subjects. </p></blockquote> <p>Is "not to shabby" scientific vernacular? Cough*sample power*effect measure*cough.</p> <blockquote><p>Of course I agree there are weaknesses, like the fact is a survey and that parents were not interviewed. But I you have not explained in detail why this is such a fatal problem.</p></blockquote> <p>The fact that you can't see how a survey, with the type of questions asked and no verification, is problematic emphasises why you have no credibility critiquing anything. Your bias is very obvious.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359271&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vYhv6jgs-3nJLeFV-75ztB9fraZ7gd-ZD0Llq9pLkyc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359271">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359272" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495104483"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A survey, at best, can only be the least effective, least accurate kind of study. One that is internet based allowing no way to verify anything takes the 'least' status to zero. </p> <p>To start digging, you then get it retracted from a crappy journal, then reopened (when the check clears?).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359272&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7HEvsikzxggdw1Z6XR_jFurMtmzX34DFMJv_-uf1kVQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeMa (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359272">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359273" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495105879"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It "isn't too shabby," because the "survey" has conclusions that he agrees with.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359273&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IpzonzJOy0ITe3IrYuPPEEoJXz69wYgrl7VknaVhEhI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359273">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359274" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495107808"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Exactly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359274&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KxBZdJibhpMTEaxAwwbV33R-uptFXyss2UxPKqAkXjk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359274">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359273#comment-1359273" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359276" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495108225"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Thanks for bringing that to my attention Johnny. </p></blockquote> <p>Well, take a look at this - <a href="http://www.autisminvestigated.com/vaccinated-unvaccinated/#comment-275027">http://www.autisminvestigated.com/vaccinated-unvaccinated/#comment-2750…</a></p> <p>Again, nobody that knows you thinks it's really your words.</p> <p>It makes sense, really. Jake can't go with science, because he knows there isn't any that supports his position. He can't hang where free comments are allowed, because he's a gutless wimp who can't handle the meanies who tell him the truth. He can't turn to friends, because he's pissed off all the other AV communities so he doesn't have any (well, he has Hans and Rose, but I have no evidence they aren't socks). All he can do is stay in his safe space, and when something comes his way that shatters his little bubble, he has to defuse it the only way he knows how.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359276&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rS7IAvdL9FgOcyPEqyoPQvOHjBjCna5_Td-KPa4Ygss"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359276">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359277" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495112650"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johnny and Science Mom: That's exactly why, if I bother to post on Jake's blog, I make sure I cross post the comment here. So that it can't be toyed with. AND...if there's a comment over there that *isn't* cross-posted here, then it's not from me, it is a sock. (Though, TBH, I can't be bothered to check out Jake's blog on any regular basis, because his writing is terrible.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359277&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DxiMLK4ahV7-RLPqh4u9ClS3rFt1x8ilrSID5UKLogo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359277">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359278" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495112774"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Fake Science Mom, Does the gnat think he can draw blood with this (mis)appropriation of your nym? His readership won't know and their numbers must be frightfully small to make this sort of idiocy seem reasonable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359278&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f1kh249RriGa7oRMXzrRGFV3sPwQuMUbB6iozHZ8Ce8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeMa (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359278">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359279" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495112889"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That comment and the others have a distinct whiff of a recently departed sock from here. Perhaps Jake can find the stones to clarify and remove those comments if he wasn't the perpetrator. Not holding my breath though.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359279&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y9TzCbEY5q65T1e2orSoeY2bqlF9MTrEk32yj5fTlRU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359279">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359280" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495114363"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I admit I hadn't considered that they were flat out sock-puppet entries. Knowing that Jake edits comments, I figured that was the case here. I wouldn't put it past He Who I Will Not Name As Long As He Doesn't Post Here, and I agree that Jake will probably be disinclined to do anything about it. I'd even go so far as to say that it probably brings a big grin to his face.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359280&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J6NNUiZdQVw9gbj_OKGDXGT7l1_HOzcKBixlMQNRZdE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359280">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359281" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495116390"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@MJD:</p> <blockquote><p>An “open access” journal publication is simply a means of getting <b>DIS</b>information into the public domain.</p></blockquote> <p>FTFY.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359281&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QrjU82Q5pmqrsUXjWT2DrgiXH7K4F4oe7POqVPZxYgU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359281">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359282" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495118467"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>666 subjects isnt too shabby.</p></blockquote> <p>I missed this the first time around, but does the Mawson et al. survey really have 666 subjects? That number would be somewhat ironic, given the likely religious orientation of many of the participants.</p> <p>And just to emphasize the point: Having larger numbers helps reduce the statistical errors in your result. The relative statistical error is proportional to 1/sqrt(N). But it does nothing to help your systematic errors. If your survey methodology is designed to prove your point, your results will be just as bad with N=20,000 as with N=20. Garbage in, garbage out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359282&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ym9eJpSdyNtp8FrH_RLDTboLeASy2Gj8d4b7c_VaARY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359282">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359283" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495120699"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>So, the VP troll above thinks this is a legitimate study, even though no attempt was made to actually confirm any of the survey answers?</i></p> <p>A survey in which anyone could participate (nothing restricting it to parents who had been sent invitations), and which had been announced on antivax forums well ahead of time.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359283&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ltBcAm6AhylrABZO-GbMucWuvAQaDcSvTs4WeQkmTys"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359283">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359284" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495125070"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am sure this low life was just performing a study on how to change behavior in teenage girls:</p> <p>In May 2017 the Chiropractic Commission charged chiropractor Derek Hayden (CH00034208) with unprofessional conduct. Charges say Hayden had a sexual relationship with a teenage patient he had been treating since she was 9-years-old. The patient allegedly lived in Hayden’s home for more than a year. Charges say the goal was to correct the patient’s behavioral problems, but Hayden lacked a license as a counselor or any other kind of mental health professional. Hayden allegedly gave her signature authority to one of his bank accounts. Hayden allegedly didn’t keep adequate records of his treatment of the patient.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359284&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hy-rlKld_XHxNsUm7j1neA1pXR-dKbhh7ZX3UyVXxLU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359284">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359285" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495125400"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mawson's other OAText paper also de-retracted. The one on prematurity, with the eyebrow-raising report that premature birth, in the absence of vaccination, is *not* a risk factor for neurological problems.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359285&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HEaPtKpPnQ_QFnjrHm9T5HKejKF_HUmWjbX5TTs5Q2Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359285">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359286" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495133195"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Mawson’s other OAText paper also de-retracted. The one on prematurity, with the eyebrow-raising report that premature birth, in the absence of vaccination, is *not* a risk factor for neurological problems.</p></blockquote> <p>And with author affiliations still wrong.</p> <p>This really does have shades of the grifters at OAText finding a way to improve their personal liquidity.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359286&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MHbKAEIVYCx6t-mR4zO4Tc6R9U2RfrgksuHBRcCmPIk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359286">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359287" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495133991"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I admit I hadn’t considered that they were flat out sock-puppet entries. </p></blockquote> <p>My immediate reaction was that this was Travis. Jake doesn't use language like that. When he edits my comments, he does so by taking some stuff out so he doesn't have to respond to it, not completely changing the wording. Or in Becky's case, he renames her as Brian Deer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359287&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RFmYML3AkvAumPZEhqnyBSfoVTEYPuLkmDanORTl7Jo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359287">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359288" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495134185"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh yes, the PDF has not changed; it is still date-stamped "28th April". And its temporary disappearance is <b>not</b> explained by the rationale offered by CMSRI for the disappearance of the vaccine / non-vaccine paper ("the editors took it down while they investigated the retraction of its earlier version in Frontiers"). Leaving us with the "ransom demand" explanation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359288&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="i-JM49q8wwaEM_NUruc0zMXZUkJEywbq_tCGQDGCGxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359288">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359289" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495136003"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The Mawson study has a few strengths that make it unique:</p></blockquote> <p>I am laughing so hard that the tears are dropping on to the keyboard.</p> <p>The Mawson study has exactly 0 strengths (actually come to think of it, there might even be negative strengths). This lack of strengths start with the way the data was gathered: by internet survey that anyone could fill in, targeted at an unrepresentative group of the population but that anyone could fill in, promoted widely among the anti-vaccine groups, where participants were encouraged to recruit other participants, and where reporting of vaccination and health conditions was completely unverified.</p> <p>There is an old statistics saying, more recently co-opted by people in computers, that goes: Garbage in, garbage out. The data for the Mawson papers was garbage of the lowest order - so putrid that no one else would touch it. </p> <p>Here we have the council do hard rubbish pick ups, where you put out all your large pieces of rubbish to be collected. There is a thriving scavenger business where people go and search through other people's rubbish for metal, bits of furniture that might still work and other gems before the council picks it up. Many of the piles of hard rubbish decrease significantly in size before the pick up, but not ours. It seems we put out true junk* for collection. Mawson's data set reminds me of our junk.</p> <p>*We have another old saying that goes: Stuff is the junk you keep and junk is the stuff you throw away. My wife accuses me of failing to properly distinguish between junk and stuff.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359289&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RMOqxmZa7E61FMZP5zZ7BEJ2jPSD-L2vDCm72PPduXc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359289">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359290" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495140886"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If there is such a difference in ascertainment (ascertainment bias), then why does the unvaccinated group have far higher rates of vaccine-preventable diseases?</p> <p>If the respondents are lying, then again why did they report such high levels of vax-preventable diseases?</p> <p>So the argument here is that the respondents just made everything up?</p> <p>Thats it?</p> <p>Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359290&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HtAmWq2ulz4HTBX0VyPtlSfLOJJDggzUbrNyAjhlmgI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359290">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359291" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495140998"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Why are these not strengths?</p> <p>These characteristics are objectively better than the KIGGS and 2 other alleged vax-unvax studies cited by Orac. </p> <p>1) comparing fully vaccinated with zero-vaccine groups. And by fully vaccinated, I mean the US CDC schedule. Not a wimpy schedule with just a few vaccines. There is a large difference in vaccine exposure in the compared groups. None of the vax-unvax studies you cite (via the thoughtscapism blog) do this.</p> <p>2) Looking at a variety of long term neurodevelopmental and immune outcomes. None of the thoughtscapism-cited studies do this either.</p> <p>3) Good matching on socioeconomic status and income. The Bloom (Philippines) study is terrible in this regard. That all subjects were homeschooled adds to the matching.</p> <p>4) The substantial size of the study. 666 subjects isnt too shabby. The KIGGS study had only 50 subjects with zero vaccines age 6+. The bloom study had only 85 fully vaccinated subjects.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359291&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NzdlxuxCT8XKqYPNUoip1Ft_sqXTa60pkk-tlmVm9Mg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359291">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359292" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495142186"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ANY survey is objectively worthless as a scientific study. A survey previously advertised in the antivax swamp, where every brain-dead denizen thereof was encouraged to respond to it and lie their a$$es off--yeah, that's a strength.</p> <p>I've encountered imbeciles online before--but you're the <a href="mailto:godd@mn">godd@mn</a> ultimate.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359292&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3vI6Utlbjar3BfzhsSi4Hdo4ZN4IKqCzSHlz9RTTSVI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359292">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359293" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495143067"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers, epidemiology, how much? For that matter, who were the epidemiology-trained researchers in that survey? (To call it a cross-sectional study is like calling your site an informational website.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359293&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z_xAx69OStKIOTdAZlXsssAP3R1-Xuoup-zRmyDCAU4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359293">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359294" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495144397"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've judged better 3rd grade science fair projects than the unverifiable nonsense of Mawson. A quick search on Facebook for when Mawson oh-so-unscientifically trolled for his survey participants shows posts like this from 2012 ( <a href="http://tinyurl.com/kcqwgky">http://tinyurl.com/kcqwgky</a> ) where a home school group soliciting participants notes: </p> <p><i>No information is requested that could personally identify anyone. We are requesting only state and zip code of residence. Responses to the online questionnaire are dumped anonymously into a database from which no individual can be personally identified.</i></p> <p>So, no way to monitor that no one is spiking the responses with fake answers, and no way to verify the reliability of what was submitted. No conclusions can be drawn from Mawson's nonsense when there are no means to verify the authenticity and reliability of responses. His work has all the validity of a Facebook poll.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359294&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XRZN8t6aeIGApPuNmnlrIn6_S54k3UqXxo7YGysykuo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359294">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359295" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495146768"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In the 'Comparison; paper:</p> <blockquote><p>A search of VAERS for “Cases where age is under 1 and onset interval is 0 or 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 days and Symptom is otitis media” [63]</p></blockquote> <p>Note that Ref. 63 is not to the VAERS database, but to the NVIC version of it, the one that facilitates dumpster-diving by bypassing the 'data quality' caveats.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359295&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eK9Nc8Pvu2Olwfn0FEHriI7IWs8kTAx1ylgpV7-bKwU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359295">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359296" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495146936"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>2) Looking at a variety of long term neurodevelopmental and immune outcomes. None of the thoughtscapism-cited studies do this either.</i></p> <p>Some would call that "p-hacking". Or "fishing expedition". Not normally regarded as a 'strength'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359296&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_3U9m_s_NCXf-IuMPAb-YbhHdtA84fbxUttRLZnuMTg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359296">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359297" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495149789"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Is “not to shabby” scientific vernacular? Cough*sample power*effect measure*cough.</p></blockquote> <p>VP has previously demonstrated his grasp of these concepts by using a sample-size calculator to assert that if there were not 98% an ASD risk due to vaccines (leading to <i>N</i> = 2000 or something similar), the jig was up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359297&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hf_0KujRePVqeF-23SumhjvwQchwfsATikU3Lf3AO8k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359297">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359298" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495152896"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"So, no way to monitor that no one is spiking the responses with fake answers, and no way to verify the reliability of what was submitted. No conclusions can be drawn from Mawson’s nonsense when there are no means to verify the authenticity and reliability of responses. His work has all the validity of a Facebook poll."</p> <p>This is a reasonable criticism and definite weakness of the study. But does it rise to the level of justifying complete dismissal of the results?</p> <p>I tend to not think so, because I dont think that hundreds of people will make up nonsense to spike a survey like this. This is some research on this issue (human behavior in survey research). From what I have read, people generally dont act this way. </p> <p>A strength of the study is the large difference in vaccine exposure in the compared groups. It was FULL vs ZERO vaccination. </p> <p>no other study has such a large differential in exposure. I think thats valuable. </p> <p>by comparison, the Smith/Woods study often cited by vaccine promoters compared groups receiving:</p> <p>10.1 vs 11.8 vaccines<br /> 7.4 vs 11.8 vaccines</p> <p>its not reasonable to expect this small exposure differential will create observable effects. </p> <p>Also, we dont know the dose-response curve for vaccines and adverse outcomes. For all we know, the dose-response may be relatively flat in the 7-12 vaccine range.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359298&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TnAqd-fOSbRhyCGBhYoH4wpWHi2cMGC4xqVqYNcNG0M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359298">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359299" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495153239"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"VP has previously demonstrated his grasp of these concepts by using a sample-size calculator to assert that if there were not 98% an ASD risk due to vaccines (leading to N = 2000 or something similar), the jig was up."</p> <p>You are referring to my analysis of the Gadad study. Please explain why I am wrong. </p> <p>With an assumed 2% autism rate from vaccines, and dichotomous endpoint (autism Y or N), and conventional alpha 0.05 and 80% power, 387 monkeys per group would be needed, or 774 total. Its basic biostatistics. </p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/gadad-et-al-2015-pnas-journal/">http://vaccinepapers.org/gadad-et-al-2015-pnas-journal/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359299&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B9o6R2fr2AZRDJmHa-3QJb5IRO3FMtUpRVFlTbU95g8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359299">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359300" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495153840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hello gang,</p> <p>Just a quick note to tell that if my comments in the last few weeks sounded depressive, that's because it dawned on me that I am. I along with my cousin have been taking... scratch that... trying to take care of a soon to be 44 years old brother who's aspie, with SMH issues, 2nd grade high school and the hyperactivity of 10 cheetah at a bare minimum.</p> <p>The good part of this period of the year is that I'll be scheduled for an interview with professor Erin Barker of Concordia university for a job in her lab. She, incidentally, studies parenting stress for parents of autistic child and/or SMH issues.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359300&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GDdg0LjZQMGyyCeHV_zpUHzcjg6yoX1AQlOZMWWwN8k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359300">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359301" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495156076"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If there is such a difference in ascertainment (ascertainment bias), then why does the unvaccinated group have far higher rates of vaccine-preventable diseases?</p> <p>If the respondents are lying, then again why did they report such high levels of vax-preventable diseases?</p> <p>So the argument here is that the respondents just made everything up?</p> <p>Thats it?</p> <p>Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.</p></blockquote> <p>Let me put this in words of one syllable or less for you.</p> <p>"There is no way of verifying that any of the data provided was correct"</p> <p>Analysing junk gibes you junk with a 100% probability.</p> <p>I am sorry that there are a few long words in there, but checking the meaning of words - even the short ones - with a dictionary is sure to help you understand them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359301&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="30dEv2clhnUq_4-Cf99Q0ZRTqpdQ9p46dSc_bBAR_ts"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359301">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359302" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495156172"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>hi Orac:</p> <p>Will you be writing any more articles about aluminum adjuvant? It seems you covered the Al adjuvant issue lightly in part of a post a few years ago, focusing on the ecological study by Shaw. I have not seen you address the experimental results, or new papers showing that Al is more toxic than previously believed (e.g. showing harm to animals at 3.4 mg/kg/day, a vaccine-relevant dosage). </p> <p>An important new paper was published on Al adjuvant toxicity, described here:</p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/al-adjuvant-causes-brain-inflammation-behavioral-disorders/">http://vaccinepapers.org/al-adjuvant-causes-brain-inflammation-behavior…</a></p> <p>I encourage you to write about the new reports on aluminum adjuvant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359302&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FT2DuLlG5z6-d8YBcasPefzWjrbrfJAaBUCppP5fXDo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359302">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359303" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495156387"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>[D]oes it rise to the level of justifying complete dismissal of the results?</p> <p>I tend to not think so, because I don't think that hundreds of people will make up nonsense to spike a survey like this.</p></blockquote> <p>Thank you Vaccine Papers. You've just confirmed your ignorance. In a sample size as small as the one in this, you don't need "hundreds of people" to submit fake answers to skew the results. 34 would be enough to do it.<br /> One last thing. How do we know that Mawson didn't cherry pick the answers?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359303&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xJ8rVAv9Ub2imeDd1idz1ruSI2EbO-o12grhc9NTbXU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359303">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359304" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495156438"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Why are these not strengths?</p></blockquote> <p>Here let me help you.</p> <blockquote><p>1) comparing fully vaccinated with zero-vaccine groups. And by fully vaccinated, I mean the US CDC schedule. Not a wimpy schedule with just a few vaccines. There is a large difference in vaccine exposure in the compared groups. None of the vax-unvax studies you cite (via the thoughtscapism blog) do this.</p></blockquote> <p>There is no way of verifying that the "unvaccinated" group had received no vaccinations or that the "vaccinated" group had received any or all of the vaccinations mentioned.</p> <blockquote><p>2) Looking at a variety of long term neurodevelopmental and immune outcomes. None of the thoughtscapism-cited studies do this either.</p></blockquote> <p>There is no way of verifying that any of the children involved had, or did not have, any of the neurodevelepment and immune outcomes mentioned.</p> <blockquote><p>3) Good matching on socioeconomic status and income. The Bloom (Philippines) study is terrible in this regard. That all subjects were homeschooled adds to the matching.</p></blockquote> <p>There is no way of verifying that any of the socioeconomic status data were correct.</p> <blockquote><p>4) The substantial size of the study. 666 subjects isnt too shabby. The KIGGS study had only 50 subjects with zero vaccines age 6+. The bloom study had only 85 fully vaccinated subjects.</p></blockquote> <p>There is no way of verifying that all of the children in the study were homeschooled or lived in the four states mentioned. Indeed there was no way of verifying that these children actually existed.</p> <p>Always happy to help.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359304&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bS4-2AoWBcybMz5M0hYupfELp-oltvZ4F4ydKZDQdfQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359304">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359305" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495157278"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ok fair enough. Since Mawson cannot prove these things didnt happen, reasonable people can disagree. I think its unlikely that the results were spiked, but thats merely an opinion based on subjective information. I think its likely that vaccines cause the adverse effects Mawson reported (in view of other science). </p> <p>Are there any other vax-unvax studies I dont know about? And by vax-unvax, I mean zero vs substantial vaccine exposure comparison. Not necessarily the full schedule, but preferably pretty close, and including several aluminumn-containing vaccines. The current CDC schedule has 11 Al adjuvanted vaccines in the first 6 months, and 16 vaccines up to 2 years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359305&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QQxb2ATMhOV07grdWCLhFc2gLX1mtBjkexju78QBQ-A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359305">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359306" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495161935"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Analysing junk gives you junk with a 100% probability.</i></p> <p>There <b>has</b> to be a pony in there <i>somewhere</i>!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359306&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tk9gP5gzhR_xepBb6Vlj_6oQk_UFv7o2Vkfz4tDNrP0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359306">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359307" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495165961"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Anyone that has researched enough (and isn't a paid shill), know that unvaccinated kids are healthier than vaccinated kids. It's obvious. How do I know that we are winning this argument? This used to be one of the only places that you could go to read about the topic on an ongoing basis... Now, it's everywhere! You are losing and will be seen as frauds and morons for years to come. Congrats!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359307&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U5BgtdovHabA4Fw1ky058EHHYiEGV6v_zzNheD7EWnU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joe (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359307">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359308" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495166201"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP: "I think its unlikely that the results were spiked..."<br /> Based on what? Internet polls are notoriously inaccurate. </p> <p>Real studies find no vaccine/autism link. Money would be WAY better spent actually looking for and at the real causes, not beating this dead horse.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359308&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rIxKwmT5LUixwWcuakAfFRSurBVVComOs-_ngnmJLq0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeMa (not verified)</span> on 18 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359308">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359309" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495168040"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>This used to be one of the only places that you could go to read about the topic on an ongoing basis… Now, it’s everywhere! </p></blockquote> <p>That's because years ago, most people were unaware of the existence of your mentally diseased little cult. I would mention the existence of antivaxers to people and they would be either horrified or disbelieving. It <b>is</b> difficult to believe that such a cabal of evil miscreants could exist, but you do, and now that the light of publicity has started shining on you, you're scurrying like the roaches you are to escape it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359309&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DX3s22kHdYUJnAHEeIZg4tfuOWvzE2XNijtbDgPOiIk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359309">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359310" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495169601"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I don’t think that hundreds of people will make up nonsense to spike a survey like this.</i><br /> In other news, when P.Z. Myers invites his readers to crash an on-line poll, the results are still plausible.</p> <p><i>How do we know that Mawson didn’t cherry pick the answers?</i><br /> I am confident that Prof. Mawson is treating his data honestly and with integrity. The problem is just that the data are crap.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359310&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bv9j_uw8-Aa7Y0u6CXiSm_9bqsJ5NLPaD8tB9fL8pDg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359310">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359311" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495169628"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I tend to not think so, because I dont think that hundreds of people will make up nonsense to spike a survey like this. This is some research on this issue (human behavior in survey research). From what I have read, people generally dont act this way.</i></p> <p>Well, then you clearly don't get how life works when it comes to other open-ended polling activities like the TV show American Idol where fans can vote multiple times for their favorite performer--and do all the time. </p> <p>And go onto Facebook and search "Vaccination Status and Health Outcomes among Homeschool Children" and look at where it popped up back in 2012 when the survey was available to <i>anyone</i> who had the link. That link shows up on all kinds of anti-vaccine web sites and Facebook pages with open solicitations for people to go fill it out. If you don't think AVers didn't swarm all over that like flies on dog poop, then I've got some ocean front property here in Arizona I'd like to sell you. </p> <p>No. Sorry. From Square One, Mawson's 1st grade science fair project was fatally flawed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359311&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ONf89rPp0HqU-DUPXB8WNVE6pmG1AVgSv5kN9qcDFlo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359311">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359312" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495171340"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"Woe to you, oh Earth and sea, for the Devil sends the Beast with wrath<br /> Because he knows the time is short<br /> Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the Beast<br /> For it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty six..."</p></blockquote> <p>Sorry, couldn't help myself, given the number of participants...</p> <p>And to discussion at hand. @VP </p> <blockquote><p>I tend to not think so, because I dont think that hundreds of people will make up nonsense to spike a survey like this. This is some research on this issue (human behavior in survey research). From what I have read, people generally dont act this way.</p></blockquote> <p>Looking at the topic of the poll - would you agree that many people feel very strongly about the issue? I think we can agree on this point. Some, the community here would eve say most, of the people on the anti-vaccine side held rather radical beliefs, up to the government conspiracy and oppression. Even in this very discussion we have Joe, who accused everyone who does not think that unvaccinated children are obviously healther of being a shill.</p> <p>Can you with any degree of certainty say, that among people who hold such strong opinions and who very much would like a study that proves them right, there are none who would falesly report in an internet poll or report multiple times?</p> <p>Hell, we don't even need ideologically motivated sabotage - a bunch of trolls filling the poll for s**ts and giggles would render the whole thing worthless.</p> <p>I don't understand a lot of science. But even a layman such as me can see how using only reliable data is the paramount. You wouldn't want engineers desiging next boeing to take measurements "by the eye". Or you would, if you are misantrophic enough and don't travel by plane. But I'd like to believe you wouldn't.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359312&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CazGr6Lpf1Rdy4IxFEVpqKqAUs-4QJHqNtpymV-qPts"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">The Smith of Lie (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359312">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359313" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495171387"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Anyone that has researched enough (and isn’t a paid shill), know that unvaccinated kids are healthier than vaccinated kids. It’s obvious.</p></blockquote> <p>Supporting evidence required. And no, the remainder of your comment is not good enough.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359313&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0nzxuWtRNb9iybJ-4vvrRJ96TCj4G7-ltJnEGnzVM6o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359313">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359314" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495173313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Julian Frost: well, if Joe wants to believe that, then I have to wonder what my fully vaccinated AND UTD kids would have been like if we hadn't vaccinated them? Super people? They are healthy, confident, employed adults. As children, yes, they had colds, chicken pox (unfortunately the year before the vaccine was approved), GI bugs and other things we don't vaccinate against. Frequent ear infections as infants because of lousy genetics until they grew old enough for their eustachian tubes to be longer (can't blame vaccines - both my husband and his mother had the same thing at the same ages, and very different vaccine schedules).</p> <p>IOW...Joe is full of it. And he insults all the very intelligent Joes I know who are also fully UTD with vaccines because I nag. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359314&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tx74AqkcXLeqzBgk9luMKHJYSI1APXVmVy-qvPGpFRM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359314">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359315" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495174576"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>ok fair enough. Since Mawson cannot prove these things didnt happen, reasonable people can disagree.</p></blockquote> <p>In the real world, reasonable people with any limited level of expertise take one look at Mawson's pair of papers and recognise them as the junk they are. Based entirely on the methodology, but there are many other clear signs elsewhere in the papers - not forgetting the fact that they were published in the most predatory of predatory open access journals. There is nothing going for these two pieces of work.</p> <p>Unreasonable people make excuses for Mawson and invent fairy tales where people with a vested interest are always completely truthful on anonymous internet surveys. The fact that you are spending so much effort making excuses for this study shows that you are completely anti-vaccine and stoop to cherry pick the the most massive colossal junk in order to support your precious pre-conceived notions.</p> <p>This is the sort of thing that pretend scientists do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359315&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bM7cNjZy9Bbp8EP1U3EhlJCN2PODbLISR7_B9_-tjO4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359315">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359316" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495174828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP: "The substantial size of the study. 666 subjects isnt too shabby."</p> <p>It's...the Mark of the Beast! We've gone well beyond paid shills when antivaxers invoke dark powers like this.</p> <p>Now if _this_ comment also goes into automatic moderation, I will know what evil force is behind it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359316&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NuRNeG5h4dq8WuaqHRTb0XSAXCA192zQ5ZMu-hhNJuY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359316">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359317" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495175008"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yep. The only explanation for going on automatic moderation status is that Satan has assumed the body of Orac, or a troll was posting under my username/e-mail, or...could there be another dark reason?</p> <p>I await the decision of the court.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359317&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4oyfzrr7o9ECv9_fh4OvleuXqrdPFcVEHfDpRtRD6W0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359317">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359319" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495178134"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A certain trolling sock puppet generator impersonated a number of regulars, and I was forced to put them into my automatic moderation filter. I've also done this with every new commenter for the last month or so, which is unfortunate but really helped me contain the problem. (One of his tactics was to start as a new commenter making a couple of reasonable comments and then going full nutjob after being out of automatic moderation.) These measures seem to have worked. It's been a while since our troll has made an appearance (at least as far as I can tell); so I might be able to start releasing the regulars. However, I've been very, very cautious because I've been burned before, prematurely thinking he had given up and gone away.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359319&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lWgqJyeZhoNMWvcD5tzv8pHfGHSTSleETGAocwvUnZA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359319">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359317#comment-1359317" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359318" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495175919"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ VP #49: If you want reliable data on a topic like this, you need medical records. You need documentation. You see, the problem is many "unvaccinated" kids got at least one vaccine, and many vaccinated kids either didn't get them on time, or are missing a few doses not because of any BSC AV nonsense, but because some parents just don't get it done when they should. You have to control for those confounding factors, and Mawson couldn't do that with the survey because he didn't verify anything. </p> <p>Even if he treated his data with integrity, as HDB suggests (not sure if he's being satirical or not), if the data is crap, the results are crap. Garbage in garbage out as someone else noted.</p> <p>"I think its unlikely that the results were spiked, but thats merely an opinion based on subjective information."</p> <p>And that's why your thoughts on this are garbage. You are way too credulous for a scientific discussion.</p> <p>Shifting the goal posts to aluminum isn't helping your case. There have been a number of well constructed studies. They've been discussed here many times. You are being disingenuous.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359318&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M2NbH8VYfJLzvaOKDSZk8_5doSoYWRIHcRkZ2V2XiXI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359318">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359320" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495178421"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“VP has previously demonstrated his grasp of these concepts by using a sample-size calculator to assert that if there were not 98% an ASD risk due to vaccines (leading to N = 2000 or something similar), the jig was up.”</p> <p>You are referring to my analysis of the Gadad study.</p></blockquote> <p>No, I'm referring to your performance here; I don't read your site.</p> <blockquote><p>With an assumed 2% autism rate from vaccines, and dichotomous endpoint (autism Y or N), and conventional alpha 0.05 and 80% power, 387 monkeys per group would be needed, or 774 total.<br /></p><blockquote> <p>I'm not talking about monkeys, but it doesn't matter. That's a <b>98%</b> attributable risk, you bonehead.</p> <blockquote><p>Its basic biostatistics.</p></blockquote> <p>Indeed.</p></blockquote> </blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359320&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iZLPZAjsRW4dZHtBQI_uJwmFViES2-ETXCmmv65ZjOo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359320">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359321" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495182834"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I think its unlikely that the results were spiked</p></blockquote> <p>"Thinking" of this nature is incompatible with quality research. There must be reasonable supporting evidence, not conjecture.</p> <blockquote><p>... when P.Z. Myers invites his readers to crash an on-line poll ...</p></blockquote> <p>That's another of life's little pleasures I've let slip away. I haven't participated in pharyngulating a poll in ages.<br /> I now refuse to participate in any sort of online or telephone poll for any purpose because of how badly designed nearly all of them are. Authoring a good poll is very difficult and it's my opinion that the number of people capable of doing it is vanishingly small. I once started to complete a survey from a provincial government agency and quit a very short way in because of how bad I thought it was. I mentioned this to the agency person with whom I had regular contact and her response was to agree entirely. She was a part-time lecturer in statistics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359321&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fq-w6hB8DcX724dGzwzdBtmZQYYBtHAhmVHUDi3hgAM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359321">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359322" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495186693"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ #39 Herr Doktor Bimler</p> <blockquote><p>Note that Ref. 63 is not to the VAERS database, but to the NVIC version of it, the one that facilitates dumpster-diving by bypassing the ‘data quality’ caveats.</p></blockquote> <p>I took a moment to realize that NVIC was <i>not</i> National Vaccine Injury Compensation, but the "venerable" anti-vaccine organization of Barbara Loe Fisher, the National Vaccine Information Center. Of course they would strip away any warnings.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359322&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yQhPUPTQIPAjMISIRPsmhNqIrdCaKNdstrIqfwVihDk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359322">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359323" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495186820"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Some good news regarding antivaxers' attempts to frighten Somali-Americans into not having their children vaccinated.</p> <p>"Local health officials are hosting forums in Columbus this week after a recent measles outbreak among Somali populations in Minnesota.</p> <p>Columbus has the second-largest Somali population in the United States behind Minneapolis, and health officials fear a possible outbreak in central Ohio as families in both cities visit one another this summer...<br /> Minnesota health officials link the high numbers of unvaccinated Somali children in their state with an aggressive campaign by anti-vaccine advocates several years ago that targeted Somali parents, saying that vaccinating their children would cause autism.</p> <p>“This could happen in any community that is given misinformation,” said Jose Rodriguez, spokesman for Columbus Public Health.</p> <p>Hassan Omar, executive director of the Somali Community Association of Ohio, said the community understands there are health risks. He said he hopes these events help to educate people, as well as break any stereotypes that residents might have about Somalis.</p> <p>“Everybody is worried about this,” Omar said. “We don’t want there to be a stigma. We’re Americans, we’re Midwestern. We have children that are all up-to-date for vaccinations.”</p> <p><a href="http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170518/city-county-health-officials-to-hold-measles-forums-for-somali-residents">http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170518/city-county-health-officials-to-h…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359323&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nvN8VAhvetZLaSUMKjhKj8SNchQk9XPuRV-8FmHc5L0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359323">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359324" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495187289"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Note that Ref. 63 is not to the VAERS database, but to the NVIC version of it, the one that facilitates dumpster-diving by bypassing the ‘data quality’ caveats.</p></blockquote> <p>And includes foreign reports.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359324&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qholSxWT29XytEQCJ9HYIH5DQ9D7paw9JEmlPoryjKI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359324">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359325" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495193076"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Alain -- best wishes to you. Adult care is hard.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359325&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ms0aVUm29jWVM68T_r6hDdwRrQ4VSXkCDztsuTyYsb8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Liz Ditz (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359325">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359326" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495203900"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Alain<br /> Just a quick note to tell that if my comments in the last few weeks sounded depressive, that’s because it dawned on me that I am. </i></p> <p>I am the world's worst on-line counsellor with the possible exception of Hannibal Lecter, so I will just say, "Look after yourself".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359326&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Niaw6pIoaBP5aF1hgBXpnLKeSog8qi2gMgBrzyk4ONc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359326">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359327" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495208978"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ VP #4</p> <p>This DTP study?</p> <p><a href="http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/rfk-jr-and-vaccine-safety-bad-study-conclusions/">http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/rfk-jr-and-vacci…</a></p> <p>Yeah, it's got its own problems . . .</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359327&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SGLHcLOwTKwnjCob7OAkxlXm6e-SLVoR79kWAHX5qD0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">HeatherVee (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359327">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359328" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495209519"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>To follow up on Panacea @63: There are ways you could conduct a study like this with rigor and integrity. Looking at de-identified data from a insurance providers, for example. Granted, that would still miss things like illnesses that didn't require doctor's visits, but it would all be verified. Or maybe data from CHIP?</p> <p>But asking people to provide you with data to support a position that they hold dear is by the simple facts of human nature going to result in skewed data, even if no one deliberately stuffed the poll.</p> <p>There is an entire field of study around how to build rigorous, consistent, accurate and reliable health surveys. the survey used in this study fails pretty much every single principle of good survey design.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359328&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9pkwElmkmlnMzUaZdgXUYOj4_v-P3lgHGJJqBKXhYUo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359328">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359329" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495212812"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I am the world’s worst on-line counsellor with the possible exception of Hannibal Lecter, so I will just say, “Look after yourself."</p></blockquote> <p>What hdb said.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359329&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3PPAOuVkzbkcxeM3Gl2jyG1YVEExSEfqjkh3Q0RLxuM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359329">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359330" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495215851"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HDB@50: “There has to be a pony in there somewhere!”</p> <p>Never say we’re not <a href="http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/958210-uncomfortable-steven-face">good to you</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359330&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bQYwnsBiRoV3oEEvrMpK3mFUloec0z3LJgV4D8aQLTE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">has (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359330">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359331" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495218123"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Are there any other vax-unvax studies I dont know about? And by vax-unvax, I mean zero vs substantial vaccine exposure comparison. Not necessarily the full schedule, but preferably pretty close, and including several aluminumn-containing vaccines.</p></blockquote> <p>I suppose it's marginally amusing that ddanimal has a lopsided criterion here, in addition to failing to show back up with his slide rule* to tell everyone what 2% of 14.7/1000 is.</p> <p>* Of course I had one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359331&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uII3IvzphM2xrg-JRunHdi0Ojs3ACxJ5nNE3dgjkLHM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359331">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359332" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495221228"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re: Vaccine Paper's comments<br /> While part of the problem with the data in Mawson's survey is that there was no attempt to validate the responses, to confirm that the responses are accurate, there are worse problems than that.<br /> Even if the respondents were completely honest, their responses may be subject to recall errors and subjective assessments.<br /> And going even further, even if all the responses are objectively accurate, there could still be systemic biases caused by sample selection. Let me illustrate this point a bit further.</p> <p>1) Pretend for now that we are doing this in the late 80s*. Let the response variables be whether someone receives an academic scholarship ("yes", "no") and whether someone comes from an extremely rich family ("yes", "no"). The question we ask is whether or not the family background is associated with obtaining an academic scholarship. This design is analogous to the Mawson study.<br /> 2) Since the extremely rich (by whatever criteria) is only a very small proportion of the population, we decide to choose a subpopulation in which the extremely rich is over-represented, let's say the Yale freshman class (this is analogous to the choice of restricting the survey to homeschooled children).<br /> 3) We conduct the survey, tabulate the data, and find that there is a statistically significant association between family wealth and receiving an academic scholarship. Specifically, the extremely rich have lower academic scholarship rates than the non-extremely-rich.<br /> 4) We conclude that in general, people from extremely rich families are less likely to get academic scholarships.<br /> 5) Problem: A better explanation is that the extremely rich are as or more likely to receive academic scholarships, but though they receive academic scholarships at the average rate at Yale, the poor kids appear to receive academic scholarships at a higher rate because the ones who didn't had to get an education elsewhere. Consequently, you obtain a spurious result due to the choice of an unrepresentative subgroup.<br /> 6) How does this connect to the Mawson study? One possible effect of choosing homeschooled students is that parents of unvaccinated children tend to prefer to homeschool all their children, while a large proportion of parents of vaccinated children only homeschool their autistic children (due to inadequate special education services). This is all the more salient because vaccination is required (in theory) for public education.</p> <p>As for your comments for the Gadad study, your reliance on the sample size calculator was inadvisable. The calculator (based on my attempts to replicate the numbers) assumes approximate normality and two-tailed test, when the underlying distribution is quite non-normal (binomial with tiny p parameter) and the appropriate alternative hypothesis is one-tailed (autism is higher in the vaccinated group than the non-vaccinated group). Making the same assumptions and using an appropriate statistical test (Fisher's Exact), I reach 80% power at around n=335 each group.<br /> This is of course not a defence of the Gadad paper. I think it's silly. Orac thinks it's unethical (<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/09/30/three-dozen-dead-macaque-monkeys-later-vaccines-still-dont-cause-autism/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/09/30/three-dozen-dead-macaque-m…</a>). What I am pointing out is that you don't know statistics as well as you think you do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359332&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nG9gu8YNYrIWKiGG-ifbdbNa5EbgoPctROkaq2uKKpQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359332">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359574" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495590253"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dick</p> <p>Thank you for the correction regarding the two-tailed test in the sample calculator I used for the Gadad study analysis. I edited the article accordingly. Can you link to a calculator that uses Fishers exact test? </p> <p>"As for your comments for the Gadad study, your reliance on the sample size calculator was inadvisable. The calculator (based on my attempts to replicate the numbers) assumes approximate normality and two-tailed test, when the underlying distribution is quite non-normal (binomial with tiny p parameter) and the appropriate alternative hypothesis is one-tailed (autism is higher in the vaccinated group than the non-vaccinated group). Making the same assumptions and using an appropriate statistical test (Fisher’s Exact), I reach 80% power at around n=335 each group."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359574&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6UO-LzNIlzDZry0schAKKwlGjeHzci1q7s_sRqFNV_s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359574">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359332#comment-1359332" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359333" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495221780"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>As for your comments for the Gadad study, your reliance on the sample size calculator was inadvisable. The calculator (based on my attempts to replicate the numbers) assumes approximate normality and two-tailed test, when the underlying distribution is quite non-normal (binomial with tiny p parameter) and the appropriate alternative hypothesis is one-tailed (autism is higher in the vaccinated group than the non-vaccinated group). Making the same assumptions and using an appropriate statistical test (Fisher’s Exact), I reach 80% power at around n=335 each group.</p></blockquote> <p>To detect a 2% difference from 1 in 68, I get around 2.6 million in each arm. Just sayin'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359333&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hD_PV6Uf5UPVYrJZuWr7iZX-jX64m-qQUa3VesCQaEs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359333">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359334" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495230055"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad #77<br /> Oh, no dispute that the study was atrociously underpowered (as I said, it's silly). The first time I saw it, I was struck by how the paper failed to establish that the symptoms they were looking for actually occurred in macaques.</p> <p>Unless you are talking about actual outputs from the calculator, in which case I'd check your input.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359334&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AicgpdVjpQ6w0tqnBLL8Vs9JpkyLYL8qP5E3x5VwJJ0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359334">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359335" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495230888"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'll take the opportunity to <a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UBG5Ag3PsXo/WRZmJ4LJJyI/AAAAAAAAVdw/QYdmZ2io038bs7Xn7JMbChP9fpIA0k0DgCLcB/s1600/mawson.png">repeat this Tweet</a>:<br /><a href="https://twitter.com/FoodSnoop01/status/862158228377014273">https://twitter.com/FoodSnoop01/status/862158228377014273</a><br /> in which some racial-supremacist feckstick blames <b>Google</b> for taking down Mawson's paper. This is not just nutpicking because the AutismOne organisers -- that is, CMSRI and Generation Rescue -- Liked and retweeted the lurid conspiratorial fantasy. They own it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359335&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iYxFNcqAcEvupVz6rE1CQa5fy69RYqmOf36M7ytnr8w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359335">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359336" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495234437"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Liz, HDB, JP,</p> <p>Thanks. It took a heavy handed approach by my cousin (who's headed to Cuba in a bit over an hour) to fix the situation but the basic gist is that the brother will leave me alone for the week that the cousin is in Cuba and upon his return, there will be other fixes. He fail to do that, he's out of here.</p> <p>Usual scenario: I'd work on my computer, with earphones cranking out music in full blast in my ears and the brother won't stop talking to me or asking questions despite me having told him 10 times to not bother me, I'm working and not listening. It might be difficult for him to uphold his promise but today, I went to the police station.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359336&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kT5QXjW8B-X3loEyfqVSKJ7soQENnWQeZ3Lm5m9Ry0A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359336">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359337" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495238478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Unless you are talking about actual outputs from the calculator, in which case I’d check your input.</p></blockquote> <p>You can check the input <a href="http://i.imgur.com/k8j3Zws.png">yourself</a>. Mind you, I'm not talking about whatever Gadad-paper "analysis" that he insisted I must have been referring to, but what's needed to signal a 2% difference in ASD diagnoses.* And 80% power <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20120112040427/http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=154">wouldn't cut it</a> anyway.</p> <p>* I've been through this at painful length with Vapor Genie before, which is why I feel no urge to go looking for the comments. <i>See</i> Genie, Vapor.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359337&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sGtfJW0djTW1e5uqeIc_L6EMbsBlgxsov5KTOCu95ZQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359337">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359338" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495242911"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>FAO Orac, rather sad this, but inevitable, baby dies on a gluten free diet, parents owned a health food business and took the child to a homeopath. Let's spread the news and hope it never happens again.</p> <p><a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/baby-gluten-free-diet-dies-undeweight-less-10-pound-lbs-lucas-beveren-belgium-a7740161.html">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/baby-gluten-free-diet-di…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359338&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ldcn9nYu5WkCobQANKDnekAbWlo3573EjeExFJv1WBk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jay (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359338">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359339" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495245905"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>[S]ome racial-supremacist feckstick blames <b>Google</b> for taking down Mawson’s paper.</p></blockquote> <p>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Thanks for the laugh HDB,<br /> @Jay #82, that is so sad. And some studies have pointed out that if somebody does not have a gluten allergy, a gluten-free diet is bad because it can leave out vital nutrients.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359339&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8MwE46Fu-Wd3EnGgWlEMj_zDN7KTeqVhEjVX_iHowSs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359339">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359340" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495247724"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad #81</p> <p>Okay, yeah, you are taking 2% to mean a relative risk of 0.98, while VP is working with the assumption that the risk difference is 0.02. Naturally, the results are not comparable.</p> <p>I would usually complain about binomial with small p is very skewed, violating the normality assumption yada yada yada, but when each outcome is expected to have at least 20,000 observations even I have to admit the deviation is going to be negligible.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359340&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5yp92F30t1bJ6z3-U2n9tVrvzWT6U6VwXdI4bLaHq0I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span> on 19 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359340">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359341" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495273877"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Jay &amp; Julien --</p> <p>What killed that poor child was his parents' self-diagnosing him as lactose-intolerant and denying him dairy. Still, it's a textbook case of parental stupidity ending in a fatality, and in a just world the homeopath would be up on charges as well.</p> <p><a href="http://scibabe.com/no-gluten-free-diet-didnt-kill-baby/">http://scibabe.com/no-gluten-free-diet-didnt-kill-baby/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359341&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pyGqlBt02TLdT2pklmLQzzOvMzp-ESxOI1Q5sINNHxo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359341">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359342" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495288226"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#85, Shay<br /></p><blockquote>Still, it’s a textbook case of parental stupidity ending in a fatality, and in a just world the <em>homeopath</em> would be up on charges as well.</blockquote> <p>Why would the homeopath be charged? In the few articles I've seen the homeopath told the parents to go see a real medical doctor. It is even mentioned in the SciBaby's "source" (the daily mail..............!).<br /> I do not see a reason to hold the homeopath personal responsible for that death unless there is some source saying that the homeopath saw the baby before that point or knew about the baby condition.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359342&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aGIZoUoYzVUVG-enDieAPTBH6AJqchCiZgEz29J3jSw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Troels (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359342">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359343" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495290350"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Okay, yeah, you are taking 2% to mean a relative risk of 0.98</p></blockquote> <p>No, I'm taking it to mean a relative risk of 2%. But anyway, as the Cubs–Brewers game was postponed for no good reason, I went looking for the original exchange with VP* for context and couldn't find it here, which leads me to think that it must have been on Disqustink, which I'm <i>really</i> not going to root around in.</p> <p>Along the way, though, I did glance at his Gadad entry. Recall his invocation of "basic biostatistics"** above, and then get this (italics added):</p> <p>"But first, we need to describe some basic statistics.</p> <p>"<b>Statistics</b><br /> "Determining the number of subjects necessary in a study depends a lot on how confident you want to be in the results. Highly reliable results require more subjects, of course.</p> <p>"In these types of studies, there are two kinds of errors:</p> <p>"Type 1: Observing an effect when its not actually there (false positive), and<br /> "Type 2: Not observing an effect when it really is there (false negative).</p> <p>"<i>The chance of a type 1 error is also known as the 'p-value'</i> (also known as 'alpha'). A p-value requirement of less than 5% (p=0.05) is standard in biomedical sciences."</p> <p>The actual "calculation" is just painfully stupid – it's based on the assumption that there is <i>zero</i> ASD prevalence "incidence" in the unvaccinated, which means that <b><i>no comparator group is needed</i></b>. It gets worse:</p> <p>"If the vaccines caused autism in 2% monkeys, it would not have been observed in the Gadad study. The vaccines would need to cause autism in at least about 38% of the monkeys for the Gadad study to detect it."</p> <p>One does not need a sample-size calculator to determine whether one's monkeys might amount to an element of ℕ. He then starts babbling about <i>Giardia</i>, at which point I lost interest.</p> <p>* Have "they" finally abandoned the Royal We?<br /> ** SYLLABLES IZ POW3R.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359343&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7h-MgsZGCwWVfrZDs-FKcnAZ7F-ow7dxqPjNtXf3dSY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359343">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359344" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495290459"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>" ... the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans ..." - JFK</p> <p>Fifty years later, the reality is the fate has been sealed for a new generation of Americans ...</p> <p>Strong protein sequence alignment between autoantigens involved in maternal autoantibody related autism and vaccine antigens<br /><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_sequence_alignment_between_autoantigens_involved_in_maternal_autoantibody_related_autism_and_vaccine_antigens">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_seque…</a></p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785919_Significant_protein_sequence_alignment_between_Saccharomyces_cerevisiae_proteins_a_vaccine_contaminant_and_Systemic_Lupus_Erythematosus_associated_autoepitopes">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785919_Significant_protein_…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359344&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qYECg-RCuNN_ChNLzc9PFOJEgBo7E3d-YIpfx_cnVY8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359344">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359345" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495297525"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Troels: homeopaths don't give valid medical advice. It's quackery ie fraud. Hence, if you are a homeopath and dispensing fake medical advice, you are contributing to poor health outcomes and should be held accountable when your patient dies from treatable medical conditions like malnutrition.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359345&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nnmpNqLUnYbkFDo8XTZV-2CUZSuT0GbjLYQiw3hz5Eo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359345">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359346" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495298630"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#88, I agree with anything you said.<br /> But my point still stands.<br /> I've only read a couple of news article about this death and the articles are probably based on the same source.<br /> Based on the articles I’d say it is not clear how many times the homeopath saw the child. My initial reading of the articles made me think that the homeopath only saw the child once. All we know is the last time the homeopath told the parent to see a real doctor.<br /> If that was the only time the homeopath saw the child then he/she did the right thing regardless of his/her profession. I’d agree that if the homeopath should be charged <em>if</em> he/she knew (or should have known) of his malnutrition before that point, or if the homeopath in anyway directly contributed to this tragedy. But at the moment I've seen very little details about the homeopath's actions, so I remain cautious in making any conclusion about the homeopath.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359346&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5WvBfjiCMzQRCV8kq-iEOEf3svma2aWSz3Lq2QrIM14"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Troels (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359346">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359347" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495299291"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Correction for the above comment:<br /> "#88, I agree with anything you said." should be "#88, I agree with everything you said."<br /> And<br /> "All <em>we</em> know is the last time the homeopath told the parent to see a real doctor." should be "All <em>I</em> know is the last time the homeopath saw the child he/she told the parent to see a real doctor."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359347&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7E1Gra5i3ZfsW3aVpnX22bhZpEcA9Ct1m4dxNs-s1Uo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Troels (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359347">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359348" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495301720"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't want to joke about such a tragic event, but I've thought the same thing when "Homeopaths without Borders" have been jetting off to some disaster scene to dose starving, homeless people with distilled water--shouldn't the homeopathic remedy for "not enough food" be "a whole <a href="mailto:cr@pload">cr@pload</a> of food"?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359348&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ch-L5_ia_GNELizDRYD8cK_Zz7xthD024LuGddSKwKs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359348">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359349" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495302099"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad #87</p> <p>Relative Risk is defined as P(D=1|E=1)/P(D=1|E=2), where both E (exposure) and D (disease) are divided into two categories. Let's say E=1 for Group 1 and E=2 for Group 2, then the above becomes [Group 1 Proportions]/[Group 2 Proportions], which given your inputs is 1.02. If we let E=1 for Group 2 and E=2 for Group 1, the relative risk is 0.98. There is no reasonable arrangement using the numbers you gave that would give a relative risk of 0.02.</p> <p>I thought the assumption that the incidences are 0 vs 0.02 to be a bit odd too, but for all possible combinations (incidence group 1, incidence group 2) where the risk difference is 0.02, (0, 0.02) has minimal* variance. So using this assumption gives a conservative estimate of the type II error when the alternative hypothesis is Ha: p1-p2=0.02. Not that VP knew that, of course.</p> <p>I stopped reading before getting to the other stuff you mentioned, being more interested in figuring out how the calculator arrived at the number it did (answer: by ignoring the invalidity of its assumptions).</p> <p>*Sketch of proof:<br /> Assuming X and Y are two stochastically independent random variables, var(X-Y)=var(X)+var(Y).<br /> Now, suppose X' is the number of individuals with the outcome of interest in a given arm of study, then X' has binomial distribution with parameters n (number of individuals in the arm) and p (an unknown constant between 0 and 1, inclusive). X' has variance np(1-p). This sufficient when dealing with raw outcome numbers, as when the arms of the study are balanced, but people tend to prefer working with proportions for some reason, so let X=X'/n be the random variable representing the proportion of people with the given outcome in this arm, var(X)=p(1-p)/n. For any fixed value of n&gt;0, var(X) has global minimums when p is restricted to the interval [0,1] when p=0 or p=1 (var(X) viewed as a function of p is a parabola with a global maximum at p=0.5).<br /> It is obvious that the way to get both p1 and p2 as close to 0 as possible while fixing their difference at 0.02 is to have one of them at 0 and the other at 0.02. Alternatively, you could have one at 1 and the other at 0.98 and get the same var(X).<br /> Quod erat demonstrandum.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359349&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="67WPeTzZjTj-uBQmoosuYFQdEd0bSOApXi2QOl-a8I0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359349">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359575" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495591859"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"So using this assumption gives a conservative estimate of the type II error when the alternative hypothesis is Ha: p1-p2=0.02. Not that VP knew that, of course."</p> <p>I was well aware of this, which is why I assumed 0 incidence in the control group. The assumptions I made were intended to be simple and conservative. You can quibble with the details, but they are inconsequential to the conclusion: that the Gadad study was extremely underpowered, and the results are therefore meaningless.</p> <p>The obvious fatal flaws of the Gadad study have not stopped vaccine promoters like Offit from declaring the Gadad results as "CLEAR AND DEFINITIVE" .</p> <p>Offit wrote this last year about Gadad:</p> <p>"The vaccine–autism controversy teaches us that, although it is easy to scare people, it is much harder to unscare them. Even with papers as clear and definitive as that by Gadad et al. (1), it is hard to unring the bell."-Dr Paul Offit</p> <p>Offit is way out of line here, right?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359575&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SnC2_G3J2kpzrvLTMeoJFffqjIjRl4TGpJ0u8RH8XqE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359575">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359349#comment-1359349" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dick (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359350" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495306341"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"“All I know is the last time the homeopath saw the child he/she told the parent to see a real doctor.”"</p> <p>Correction noted -- still, the homeopath had a moral (if not professional) obligation to call the Belgian equivalent of CPS.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359350&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wt4qFEbpQ51vonqm95hkCBcPApLKMMxPYNTtVF6yHV0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359350">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359351" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495317193"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Relative Risk is defined as P(D=1|E=1)/P(D=1|E=2), where both E (exposure) and D (disease) are divided into two categories. Let’s say E=1 for Group 1 and E=2 for Group 2, then the above becomes [Group 1 Proportions]/[Group 2 Proportions], which given your inputs is 1.02.</p></blockquote> <p>Right, sorry; it's an <i>attributable</i> risk percentage [(RR − 1)/RR] of 0.02.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359351&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Yhr6oa6VY6Ob_mlAJ8oFlwEHSKObck9l3j1kmdSXpwA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359351">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359352" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495317526"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Um, "0.02 <b>2%</b>." Must not type after napping.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359352&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pzhfnhNu40lZznGPusEV-VF39K1NbEUbXnZ6qUsCMKg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 20 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359352">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359353" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495351030"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Vinu arumugham (#88),</p> <p>Thank you!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359353&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m3yziVT_qH81fsuTe0ZWPvQCHKc-7psi3Qk0l4rvOt4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 21 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359353">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359354" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495351277"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@shay #94: I don't know if homeopaths/naturopaths are licensed in Australia (God I hope not) but if they are, yes they would be mandated reporters.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359354&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VFcgr5o3s5sBnUveIOwGvoZWln6fdg6DB-L1kK_Gbeo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 21 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359354">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359355" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495368097"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The invalidating factor of Mawson's study is that by not cross-referencing with medical records, they were not able to establish an actual cohort of unvaccinated children.</p> <p>Most parents who decline vaccinations are unaware that their child has had one out of the three Hep B's; the "birth" dose. </p> <p>Sometimes after the childbirth the nurse will mention the Hep B "will" be given.</p> <p>Usually they just say; "We need to get baby cleaned up, get some measurements &amp; we'll bring him right back to you!"</p> <p>In my state, HepB is on all standing orders in all birth centers, for all doctors since at least 1994. It does not matter if baby is born in the car on the way, they will get HepB upon arrival. Home birth with certified Mid-wife? Yes; HepB. Written, notarized "birth plan" submitted to doctor at first visit? Yes; HepB (firstly, you don't give baby care instructs to the OB &amp; secondly; nurses administer immunizations &amp; nurses flip straight to doctors orders in chart for a newborn admission. "Legal" has it's own section &amp; only DNR's go to front).</p> <p>You would have to be very detailed in order to form a truly UN-vaccinated group.</p> <p>The Lewin's group study(which did not show similar results) utilized EHR's but integration of EHR's &amp; IIS's vary by state so you still have discrepancies.</p> <p>After establishing a true unvaccinated cohort, I personally wouldn't consider a study that eliminated subjects based on any confounding variable other than those listed on the CDC's " “General Recommendations on Immunization: Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices", as a contraindication for immunization.</p> <p>That would include PROM, prematurity, sibling history of anaphylaxis to vaccine, family history of SIDS, TB, etc ... If you administer to that population ... you include that population. But that's just me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359355&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f9tzUC7Xe-2Acg3onMOWgZz_LMzMS-Py9D8Sj4pUyxw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">christine kincaid (not verified)</span> on 21 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359355">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359356" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495401790"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The invalidating factor of Mawson’s study is that by not cross-referencing with medical records, they were not able to establish an actual cohort of unvaccinated children.</p> <p>Most parents who decline vaccinations are unaware that their child has had one out of the three Hep B’s; the “birth” dose.</p></blockquote> <p>That is in fact one of the least of the problems in Mawson's study. However, it does point to another absurdity in Mawson's hypothesis.</p> <p>Among all the other problems with the hypothesis is the implicit assumption that all vaccines are identical. We know this is not the case, so the whole totally unvaccinated versus totally vaccinated study as a hypothesis is not supported by the existing information about vaccines.</p> <p>But then as it ever was among the anti-vaccine groups, it is all about the vaccines. Not a specific vaccine, but vaccines in general.</p> <blockquote><p>After establishing a true unvaccinated cohort, I personally wouldn’t consider a study that eliminated subjects based on any confounding variable other than those listed on the CDC’s ” “General Recommendations on Immunization: Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices”, as a contraindication for immunization.</p></blockquote> <p>That is why you won't be asked to develop protocols for any epidemiological studies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359356&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LWtLfoOclwQ-00LOOMdNx61hIAHFjOhwqj_DJEm_vuU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 21 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359356">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359357" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495404050"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In my state, HepB is on all standing orders in all birth centers, for all doctors since at least 1994.</p></blockquote> <p>You don't say. Would you care to state how you ascertained this, or are you just going to leave everyone hanging?</p> <p>P.S. <a href="https://medium.com/@christinekincaid_60666/another-parody-of-science-that-confounds-by-variables-to-confound-beyond-relevancy-excludes-79a31fbc7be8">Heh</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359357&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="K2yDVXpcKN6OC4UGzVflYXWGrr9qwYsDYs5hqDpqFUA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359357">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359358" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495409906"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@#46 VP says <i> I have not seen you address the experimental results, or new papers showing that Al is more toxic than previously believed (e.g. showing harm to animals at 3.4 mg/kg/day, a vaccine-relevant dosage).</i><br /> Since the average daily dietary intake of Al is <i>considerably</i> higher than that received via vaccination, one has to wonder about that finding...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359358&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vZTBwJEg0NhHlHbXSP6EsCPZtl0iMOFNW4ABEw9ufe0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">alison (not verified)</span> on 21 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359358">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359360" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495433322"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Since the average daily dietary intake of Al is considerably higher than that received via vaccination, one has to wonder about that finding…"</p> <p>Not true, and does not tell the whole story. Oral absorption of Al is 0.3%. So its not correct to directly compare ingested Al content. Have to multiple by 0.3% to obtain absorbed amount. </p> <p>Also, Al adjuvant comprises PARTICLES, which have toxicity unrelated to dissolved Al3+ released by the particles. </p> <p>Vaccines in the first 6 months of the CDC vaccine schedule contain about 3,675 mcg aluminum:<br /> Birth (Hep B): 74 mcg/kg (250 mcg for 3.4 kg infant)<br /> 2 month: 245 mcg/kg (1225 mcg for 5 kg infant)<br /> 4 month: 150 mcg/kg (975 mcg for 6.5 kg infant)<br /> 6 month: 153 mcg/kg (1225 mcg for 8 kg infant)</p> <p>Total for 0-6 months: 3675 mcg aluminum</p> <p>Compare this to aluminum absorption (for infants) over the first 6 months from milk and formula. The total amount ingested must be multiplied by 0.3% to obtain the amount actually absorbed into the body. </p> <p>breastmilk: 7mg x 0.3% = 21 mcg (0.021 mg)<br /> formula: 38mg x 0.3% = 114 mcg (0.114 mg)<br /> soy formula: 117mg x 0.3% = 351 mcg (0.351mg)</p> <p>In the first 6 months of life, aluminum exposure from vaccines is 3,675/21 = 175 times higher than human milk. Infants receive far more aluminum from vaccines than from milk. </p> <p>Giving a baby 175X more aluminum than normal exposure from milk is alarming to anyone with common sense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359360&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ylh40NA2mDse5gjK04HEUUBsKh670pr7D-6HrtJDb28"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359360">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359358#comment-1359358" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">alison (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359368" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495452527"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Putting aside anything else, you're assuming that absorption from an IM injection is 100%. There's no basis for that. Here is a very detailed scientific discussion of this, and he points out that in the study that examined blood concentration of IM aluminum injection estimated bioavailability at 17% - and the basis for that. </p> <p><a href="https://scientistabe.wordpress.com/2017/04/15/sciencesjunk-sciencesbbb-aluminum-adjuvants-in-vaccines-and-the-blood-brain-barrier-removing-the-facts-from-the-fiction-the-good-science-from-the-junk-science/">https://scientistabe.wordpress.com/2017/04/15/sciencesjunk-sciencesbbb-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359368&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AR2iwoT1799EWSzPR4HqRZgZB1hl4zHGaexVqNm8gHM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359368">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359360#comment-1359360" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div></div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359359" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495432404"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@christine: re standing orders for Hep B</p> <p>What state is that? Because standing order or no standing order, you are still required to obtain informed consent from the patient (or the parent) and give them a vaccine information sheet PRIOR to administering any vaccine. </p> <p>Also, the parents should be given the immunization record card to take to their pediatrician's office so they can see what vaccines were given and when, so the child can be kept on schedule. Nurses are required to document the manufacturer, lot number, and expiration date of the vaccine on this card when they administer the vaccine.</p> <p>Every parent should know what vaccines their kid got. If they don't, then there's a breakdown in the system in your area, or they're just really poor record keepers and threw away or lost the card.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359359&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IZS5LUUg3Q5VUujJULQjfkEIfGUd_CMurQAbuLiHWo4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359359">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359361" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495434107"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Panacea: yeah, christine is pulling facts out of her posterior again. There is no place (at least in the US) where a Hep B vaccine is given without a signed consent. And if you didn't give consent, you had to sign that, too. As a nurse and as a midwife, I can say without any qualms that she's full of inaccuracies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359361&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ga8Kc3vf4CKSksi4eWXHGKJUCwiJ8mqVLIbAG3T_TnI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359361">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359362" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495435563"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If the amount of aluminum in certain vaccines was so alarming, we'd expect to see a jump in baseline blood levels after a shot was given. But we don't.</p> <p><a href="http://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/goes-vaccine/">http://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/goe…</a></p> <p>"...once aluminum is in the bloodstream, it is processed<br /> similarly regardless of the source. Approximately 90 percent is processed by binding to a protein called transferrin, and about 10 percent is bound by citrate. Once bound, the majority of aluminum will be eliminated through the kidneys, a small amount through bile, and a small amount is retained in tissues of the body. About half of the aluminum in the bloodstream is eliminated in less<br /> than 24 hours and more than three-quarters is eliminated within two weeks. The ability of the body to rapidly eliminate aluminum accounts for its excellent record of safety."</p> <p><a href="http://media.chop.edu/data/files/pdfs/vaccine-education-center-aluminum.pdf">http://media.chop.edu/data/files/pdfs/vaccine-education-center-aluminum…</a></p> <p>And of the 50-100 mg of tissue aluminum accumulated by adulthood, virtually all of it is from food.</p> <p>VP needs to go back to Toxin School.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359362&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jv9a302xXewa_z3MNu9Dn1Av2VXx6BKJ4TjNX_BInSc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359362">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359383" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495472642"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"If the amount of aluminum in certain vaccines was so alarming, we’d expect to see a jump in baseline blood levels after a shot was given."</p> <p>Not true. Particles are toxic per se, due to surface chemistry effects and shape effects. Toxicity of dissolved Al3+ released by the particles is a separate, additional source of toxicity. </p> <p>Al adjuvant comprises low-solubility particles, which explains why no rise in blood Al level is observed after injection. </p> <p>This issue is considered here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/">http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359383&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VhdB6Ls0FiJBv3C0YXe4VOhLp4p5lYWJ_337HjEsBkc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359383">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359362#comment-1359362" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359363" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495435859"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The idiocy of #103 is truly breathtaking. Environmental Aluminum (the 3rd most common element on Earth, remember) has to be multiplied by .3%, but intramuscularly injected aluminum doesn't.</p> <p>The oral route, which is "designed" to absorb material taken in, is only .3% efficient, whereas the muscles (which aren't) are 100% efficient. You can't make this stuff up!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359363&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-U59uSLc2Ssij6MLkCAM7ls67zvnijOgVUfFQO8QCxo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359363">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359402" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495491982"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Its injected. SO 100% enters the body. Simple concept. </p> <p>But that simple analysis does not tell the whole picture. Also Depends on dissolution rate, transport kinetics and particle toxicity.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359402&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rgmAr6OD9xCBnjFFJOJc2nOvqIzb4Hlsi21NRgP8gAs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359402">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359363#comment-1359363" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359364" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495437291"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn: I had thought we'd had this discussion with her before in some other comment thread as it has the ring of familiarity to it.</p> <p>I forgot to mention that SO or no SO, the parents can still refuse the vaccine and many do. We get a lot of parents that come in with birth plans declining not only Hep B but VIt K.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359364&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="53nK76K_aiML-xQduoQWPDPaEqsueI5G_dZX8TIjMYw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359364">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359365" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495438236"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ VP #103. You don't multiply by 0.3% to compare oral vs injected. You look at bioavailability as much as absorption. </p> <p>In any case aluminum is readily eliminated renally by patients with healthy renal function. So when you look at aluminum as part of vaccines, you don't stack the dose from one vaccination on top of all the ones before, because that aluminum has long been excreted by the time of the next dose. It's not like arsenic. Actual aluminum exposure is nothing like what you're trying to say.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359365&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s1l_l61ZhCKbf4g9Gz3NQkfF0WcDcUa4AGDoNH-82IQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359365">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359375" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495467561"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bioavailability = absorption. Its necessary to multiply by 0.3%</p> <p>The fatally flawed Mitkus analysis is analyzed here: </p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/">http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/</a></p> <p>The 3 problems with Mitkus are:<br /> 1) The MRL used by Mitkus is derived from feeding experiments, not injected Al adjuvant experiments.<br /> 2) Mitkus uses a proposed NOAEL of 26 mg/kg/day, but it is not a NOAEL. More recent science shows harm from ingestion of 3.4 mg/kg/day.<br /> 3) Mitkus assumes Al adjuvant particles have zero toxicity. There is no evidence for this, and much evidence it is wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359375&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OCKHcmnX6rJQ2O2766c9nApYXWn9U5ulG9Bk2FpmmDE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359375">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359365#comment-1359365" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359395" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495479423"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I agree with Vaccine Papers that Mitkus 2011 is flawed and addresses only a fraction of the safety problems associated with aluminum adjuvanted vaccines.</p> <p>My review of Mitkus 2011:</p> <p>Dr. Mitkus,</p> <p>I was reviewing aluminum safety information for vaccines at the FDA website and found your study.1</p> <p>You provide the following description of the effect of aluminum adjuvants on the immune system.</p> <p>“Aluminum adjuvants are important components of vaccines, since they stimulate the immune system to respond more effectively to protein or polysaccharide antigens that have been adsorbed to the surface of insoluble aluminum particles. Specifically, these coated particles are phagocytized by cells of the innate immune system (e.g., macrophages) and activate intracytoplasmic sensors of pathogen-associated molecular patterns located within the cells, such as the nucleotide-binding domain leucine-rich repeat-containing family of sensors ([6]; Schroder and Tschopp [30]). The functional consequence of activation of this intracellular system is the activation of certain enzymatic caspases that cleave pro-interleukin (IL)-1β to interleukin (IL)-1β. The secretion of the mature cytokine, IL-1β, leads to an inflammatory reaction and a downstream Th2-dependent antibody response [7], which amplify the immune response to the antigen. Adjuvanted aluminum, therefore, plays a vital role in facilitating the response that underlies the immunoprotection afforded by vaccines.”</p> <p>The rest of the paper focuses on body burden of aluminum AFTER it is absorbed from the muscle into the blood.</p> <p>I was taken aback that you have COMPLETELY IGNORED any negative immunological effects that aluminum can have while it is still in the muscle.</p> <p>The quoted paragraph above assumes that the only proteins in the vaccine are viral/bacterial proteins. In that case, as you state, the stimulation by aluminum plays a vital role in generating immunoprotection.</p> <p>But obviously, vaccines contain numerous other proteins including food proteins (ovalbumin, milk, soy, yeast, etc.)2 , culture medium cell proteins (Vero monkey kidney cell proteins, calf serum proteins, WI38/MRC5 fibroblast cell proteins, etc.) that are also adsorbed to the surface of insoluble aluminum particles. As you state then, aluminum adjuvants stimulate the immune system to respond more effectively to ALL these proteins as well. The effect is an immune response that includes synthesis of antibodies against any and all of these proteins. The result of such a response of course includes food allergy3,4,5 and autoimmunity6.</p> <p>How can you perform a safety assessment of aluminum in vaccines by COMPLETELY IGNORING this effect?</p> <p>References</p> <p>1. Mitkus RJ, King DB, Hess MA, Forshee RA, Walderhaug MO. Updated aluminum pharmacokinetics following infant exposures through diet and vaccination. Vaccine. 2011 Nov 28;29(51):9538–43.</p> <p>2. Vaccine Excipient &amp; Media Summary [Internet]. 2015 [cited 2016 Jan 16]. Available from: <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf">http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipi…</a></p> <p>3. Arumugham V. Evidence that Food Proteins in Vaccines Cause the Development of Food Allergies and Its Implications for Vaccine Policy. J Dev Drugs. 2015;4(137):2.</p> <p>4. Platts-Mills TAE. The allergy epidemics: 1870-2010. Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology. 2015. p. 3–13.</p> <p>5. Alice Hoyt, Peter Heymann, Alexander Schuyler, Scott Commins TAEP-M. Changes in IgE Levels Following One-Year Immunizations in Two Children with Food Allergy [Internet]. 2015. Available from: <a href="https://wao.confex.com/wao/2015symp/webprogram/Paper9336.html">https://wao.confex.com/wao/2015symp/webprogram/Paper9336.html</a></p> <p>6. Dahan S, Tomljenovic L, Shoenfeld Y. Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS)--A novel member of the autoimmune family. Lupus. 2016 Apr 1;25(4):339–42.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359395&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4nIw_w2qehVc90mm9UX5znmjDuy1oa6iFkK8KQyYPe4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359395">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359375#comment-1359375" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359400" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495491657"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vinu</p> <p>Great comment. Yes aluminum causes a wide range of health damage, not just brain inflammation and all the downstream consequences of that (autism, mental illnesses, depression anxiety etc). Aluminum alos causes allergic disorders and autoimmunity. </p> <p>Yes I should have said "not all cases of autism bein in utero". Obviously some do (like autism cases resulting from gestational infection. But of course vaccines cause MOST causes of autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359400&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rjVNaJIWGiKdo7zYKtMayrLYbO997D_FU-jtf3ot3FI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359400">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359395#comment-1359395" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div></div></div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359366" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495448701"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>"In any case aluminum is readily eliminated renally by patients with healthy renal function. So when you look at aluminum as part of vaccines, you don’t stack the dose from one vaccination on top of all the ones before, because that aluminum has long been excreted by the time of the next dose. It’s not like arsenic. Actual aluminum exposure is nothing like what you’re trying to say."</p></blockquote> <p>But that all doesn't matter. In the anti-vaccine world, reason and science is to be misinterpreted and misused. Only their logic works, and they mock anyone who is actually educated and an expert. "Yeah, I don't have a science degree," they'll say. "But I've done my research." They're the same people who think they could fly and land a plane without any training if they are given the chance to look at some YouTube videos.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359366&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BKuMeRxru10nAtN6byMVeTb09nn-DO1g-PcER5TWnDk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359366">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359367" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495451593"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@VP troll:</p> <p><b>Bioavailability.</b><br /> You have heard of it I trust?<br /> What is the bioavailability of aluminium compounds injected into muscle?<br /> (Hint, it's not 100%)<br /> Try Flarend's paper for enlightenment.</p> <p>And I also notice you compared with human breastmilk, but not with formula milk or soyabased milk. (Now why would that possibly be, except to try and deceive readers into thinking only a comparison with breast milk's [lower] levels of aluminum is appropriate?)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359367&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="v0JCA8NmBKEia7u4QEzdCzBGUScTSfwT8Mr_1yfxlBY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359367">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359392" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495478427"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.merckmanuals.com">www.merckmanuals.com</a></p> <p>"Bioavailability refers to the extent and rate at which the active moiety (drug or metabolite) enters systemic circulation, thereby accessing the site of action."</p> <p>That definition is not relevant when discussing immunotoxicity of intramuscularly injected aluminum.</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11522584">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11522584</a></p> <p>Multiple studies like the one above have shown that aluminum injected into muscles persists for months at the site of injection. We are not interested in the amount of aluminum that enters circulation, as much as how much is left behind in the muscle, for how long and the immunotoxic effect of that persistence.</p> <p>The fact that aluminum adjuvants make vaccines work, is the proof that aluminum adjuvants cause damage.</p> <p>Today's vaccines contain relatively large quantities of a few poorly immunogenic target proteins and small quantities of thousands of contaminant proteins. So the immune system has to be fooled into treating the target proteins as pathogens. Aluminum injection does the necessary tissue damage thus boosting the immune response. However, the immune pathways activated by aluminum are not fully understood and are not the same pathways activated by a real infection. The result is the immune system's highly evolved intricately balanced response is replaced by a desirable disease-protecting vaccine target protein response + an undesirable contaminant protein response that causes allergy, asthma, autism and autoimmunity.</p> <p>Details, with appropriate references:</p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Disorders_A_special_case_of_vaccine-induced_cow%27s_milk_allergy">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Diso…</a> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_sequence_alignment_between_autoantigens_involved_in_maternal_autoantibody_related_autism_and_vaccine_antigens">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_seque…</a> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313918596_Medical_muddles_that_maim_our_children_with_allergies_asthma_and_autism">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313918596_Medical_muddles_that…</a> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312125211_Professional_Misconduct_by_NAM_Committee_on_Food_Allergy">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312125211_Professional_Miscond…</a> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785919_Significant_protein_sequence_alignment_between_Saccharomyces_cerevisiae_proteins_a_vaccine_contaminant_and_Systemic_Lupus_Erythematosus_associated_autoepitopes">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785919_Significant_protein_…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359392&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3mo8T8wWF44a3RJGGuoqSfDaIHiQY-dFhvvwizdSERQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359392">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359367#comment-1359367" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359403" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495492173"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Flarend is cited many times on the VP blog. Yes I am very familier with Flarend. Important results from Flarend:</p> <p>1) biopersistence: AlOH adjuvant is biopersistent. only 6% eliminated after 28 days. For AlPO4, 22% is eliminated.</p> <p>2) Aluminum travels to the brain and other organs. </p> <p>Flarend results are not supportive of claims that Al adjuvant is safe. The persistence and transport to organs is concerning.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359403&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gNlooejaxUBg0aVO54FuzVc8YX3ZselVd0Lu5BbLAHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359403">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359367#comment-1359367" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359369" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495453332"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Anti-vaxxers I tell you...Wooo!!!</p> <p>I bet they can't even bake cookies. I bet their aluminum-free cupcakes taste like shit. I am a cupcake connoisseur, and I know!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359369&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c0k_itj3yIkrlHcdxm61j8SlQ_zdviAe6OcLwa3Job0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ren (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359369">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359370" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495454383"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Autism Incidence in Vaccinated vs. Autism Incidence in Non-Vaccinated.</p></blockquote> <p>From Narad's link to Christine Kincaid's blog (who weirdly doesn't capitalise proper nouns like her name but does so with common nouns that aren't in German). Ms. Kincaid, perhaps you would like to tell me how this study will be conducted with sample power, effect measure, confounder control, etc. Vaccine Papers here seems to have a bit of difficulty with that hence the topic shift...again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359370&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QWcWXdkcPhdX-97kiZfN5GRGracaJKBvnuCaRZayVw0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359370">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359371" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495454547"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@108 I don't have "healthy renal function." In fact, I can't take Gaviscon which is the only thing that helps with Prednisone caused heartburn, but I will still get that flu shot every year because I'm old, and familiar with flu, and choose to try to avoid it, even with the tiny amount of aluminum that will stay with me until death. It makes sense to me - and to all my doctors, including my nephrologist.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359371&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AXRSsmSAzpIC4rg5p7O74AspX3hmjcF2Sk-hkzINE_I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ellie (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359371">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359372" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495454619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Giving a baby 175X more aluminum than normal exposure from milk is alarming to anyone with common sense.</p></blockquote> <p>Once again you fail to understand and account for kinetics: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359372&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I-W94fiEvHl72T2VGCqrG84k-1cshh48C4qabCF95Lo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359372">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359377" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495467808"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The problems with Mitkus 2011 are explained here:</p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/">http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/</a></p> <p>The 3 problems with Mitkus are:<br /> 1) The MRL used by Mitkus is derived from feeding experiments, not injected Al adjuvant experiments.<br /> 2) Mitkus uses a proposed NOAEL of 26 mg/kg/day, but it is not a NOAEL. More recent science shows harm from ingestion of 3.4 mg/kg/day.<br /> 3) Mitkus assumes Al adjuvant particles have zero toxicity. There is no evidence for this, and much evidence it is wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359377&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_XzAFgkwhQuktaFxyVvWL4m5mZY-xD-Ktmfdq7oWBnM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359377">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359372#comment-1359372" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359373" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495459705"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Ellie: while Im glad you've been getting the 'flu vaccine, you haven't been getting any with aluminium-based adjuvants. (Not that there'd have been reason to worry if you had.)</p> <p>If you're 65YO+ and in the US, FLUAD™ is the first adjuvanted seasonal 'flu vaccine, approved in late '15 (and as early as 1997, in 38 other countries). Its adjuvant is squalene- based. The other 'flu vaccine for seniors, FluZone High Dose, is not adjuvanted (like all other seasonal 'flu vaccines), but delivers significantly more vaccine antigens.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359373&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5uPziIS94MlGFspSh-PSqfuYwqPEL4zDDcEZJRdDfn4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">kfunk937 (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359373">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359374" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495460540"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad: I noticed that Ms Kincaid's post comprises her comment on JB Handley's post. Amusing that he refers VP as "a group of scientists", with ebullient praise. It seems the royal "we" was not such an ineffective strategy for a one-man-band after all, at least for some audiences.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359374&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="F0HLcTRAHNn5VJbsZjiubU3tTdvY0OW9zSw-HeSnlsM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">kfunk937 (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359374">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359376" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495467716"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Al adjuvant is not eliminated by kidneys. It comprises PARTICLES, which are biopersistent and remain in the body for years, causing inflammation wherever they go. And they travel into the brain, where they cause inflammation. This is how Al adjuvant causes autism and other brain injuries.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359376&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SoJMjADP78XqPZHrbMlb5suhYfkSeGF-ZhmXPsd9bTA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359376">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359378" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495470081"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers wrote:<br /></p><blockquote>Al adjuvant . . . PARTICLES . . . travel into the brain [to cause autism.] </blockquote> <p>Could you please explain how the adjuvant particles not only "travel into the brain" but also <i>travel back in time</i> to cause the developmental changes that begin <i>in utero</i>, months or years before the administration of the postnatal vaccines that anti-vaxxers have long blamed for autism?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359378&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y4Q7lWPowj4fYWJqKhq8QQOCsNTk3GBAJO3sXTjJp18"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359378">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359380" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495470883"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Al adjuvant particles are carried to the brain by macrophages. macrophages travel to the brain in response to receiving a signal from MCP-1, macrophage chemotactic protein, which is produced by brain microglia in response to inflammation (even peripheral inflammation). </p> <p>Process is explained in detail here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/vaccine-aluminum-travels-to-the-brain/">http://vaccinepapers.org/vaccine-aluminum-travels-to-the-brain/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359380&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MyoWSlFaVBJzmCzKvdBvn1-9PHumi7SnG6MGjOJEdXQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359380">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359378#comment-1359378" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359381" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495471029"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Autism does not begin in utero. Thats never been proven. Correlation is not causation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359381&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gq_hnji4NpxMXA_Er4n-avBxvbB5FQGi-2gzQdbIegk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359381">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359378#comment-1359378" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359391" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495477888"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers,</p> <p>"Autism does not begin in utero."<br /> It may be more accurate to state that not ALL autism begins in utero.<br /> Please see:<br /> Strong protein sequence alignment between autoantigens involved in maternal autoantibody related autism and vaccine antigens<br /><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_sequence_alignment_between_autoantigens_involved_in_maternal_autoantibody_related_autism_and_vaccine_antigens">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_seque…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359391&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Cv-HlQmrbhyOniOOK4rDw5ucuaEGx6t4lPnjWv5rYSE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359391">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359381#comment-1359381" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div></div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359379" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495470358"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#121 "vaccine papers" best of luck communicating science to these folks. They are mostly in the medical profession and have been trained to think what they think just like soldiers in the army . TRAINED not educated. big difference, They wont give an inch. Their days are numbered their belief in pharmaceutical mysticism is quickly being eroded. God help them when it all comes crashing down. Its a blind spot. </p> <p>Vaccine research is at best a primitive science, because it involves injecting into the bloodstream foreign substances, chemical and genetic, that would not otherwise naturally enter the body. When we bring into the equation the enormous amount of known and unknown genetic material and foreign proteins that vaccines introduce into the body, and then consider the rapid increase in epidemics raging through the American population – adult diabetes in children, large numbers of various inflammatory and immune deficiency diseases, asthma and new allergies, severe gastrointestinal disorders (e.g., leaky gut syndrome and Crohn's disease), chronic fatigue syndrome, and many different neurological disorders (e.g., autism, ADD and ADHD, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's) – </p> <p>We must step back and reconsider their causes. We should avoid the kind of faith that the vaccine industrial complex has in its determinist, reductionist perspective of genetic materialism to find these answers without taking into account the bombardment of toxic chemicals such as vaccine adjuvants and preservatives, extraneous genetic material, pathogenic organisms, and foreign genetic fragments that assault our bodies from shortly after birth into old age.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359379&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TQt1nabe6uwFAbZz3XmSYgBmLuOxya7na1HNOXgAenw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">THEO (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359379">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359382" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495471838"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Autism does not begin in utero."</p> <p>That's quite the dogmatic statement, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Just ask the folks at Autism Speaks:</p> <p><a href="https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/direct-evidence-autism-starts-during-prenatal-development">https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/direct-evidence-autis…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359382&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ohvWz7IEz0MYq8nYaZGafPMDWUyb_X0lWsMSh4Nv7Gc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359382">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359404" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495492313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There are some cases that begin in utero, but most do not. </p> <p>Autism onset can occur as late as 10-11 years old. Autism is clearly brain injury from inflammation and cytokines. </p> <p>This article explains why autism can occur postnatally: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/postnatal-immune-activation/">http://vaccinepapers.org/postnatal-immune-activation/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359404&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H9YTqgceBke_oFFKicGZkAX6OoWAkiw_Yf0Dr4qjXFg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359404">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359382#comment-1359382" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359384" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495472974"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@VP 121: Source please. Because what you just said is utter bullshit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359384&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="agPQZ3I0OYDC4dGYlySD9DeahUnkyXpwfXAXn7VMaRo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359384">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359385" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495473044"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, let's thank Theo for reminding us that the core of anti vaccine belief is the fear of making the body somehow impure.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359385&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RNlhPBONt6hGBcUzpB0J6hh6tw2MpvJ_1_Pv1zK2i3I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359385">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359386" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495474374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Warning! Self referential statements for any finite path length risk infinite recursion, thermal runaway and other bad stuff.</p> <p>Please hang up and try your call again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359386&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5gAXWu0W-__-tZZhJB2c1mOMRC-Siz2AUoagGe92kA8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rs (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359386">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359387" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495474857"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP's traffic must be down, given all the link whoring he's doing in the comments here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359387&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cTEsuXXVQhizazdjsg8WUjENO7nn4Qdz-ja5XTNyhv4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359387">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359401" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495491775"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>orac</p> <p>Traffic is doing just fine thank you. Its been on an upward trend of late. </p> <p>You always fail to address the scientific issues. Why is that?</p> <p>I stick to the science. Vaccine promoters prefer snark, insults and nonsense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359401&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zZAKAEFIS1R8DzZanoTq-GRPhnw30WfFYPFjdmAog_I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359401">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359387#comment-1359387" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359388" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495475759"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers wrote:<br /></p><blockquote>Autism does not begin in utero. Thats never been proven.</blockquote> <p>That's quite a funny response, given that it comes from someone who just upthread stated that aluminum adjuvant particles travel to the brain and cause autism--which has "never been proven" and which, of course, cannot explain how the adjuvant particles might magically affect brain development months <i>before</i> vaccination. </p> <p>It can be useful to understand something of gene expression and developmental biology. The free, full-text version of a recent <i>Nature Neuroscience</i> article linked below might serve as a reasonable startiing point, if you note that "transcriptome expression data implicates early fetal and midfetal stages of the developing human brain in ASD etiology." </p> <p><a href="http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/09/057828">http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/09/057828</a> </p> <p>Thi free full text of this article from last week's <i>Nature Neuroscience</i> might also be useful if you have even a nodding acquaintance with genetics:</p> <p><a href="http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/11/23/089342">http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/11/23/089342</a></p> <p>I'm sure that you can find numerous similar articles on your own.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359388&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KHmfsW3SADQLXP4kvckyNdaJ2RpAkJlYlHt44sA5b38"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359388">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359405" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495492439"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Aluminum adjuvant causes autism by inducing brain inflammation and the cytokine IL-6 specifically. Autism is becain damage caused by chronic or excessive inflammation during brain development. Can occur during gestation or postnatally. but most cases today occur postnatally, from vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359405&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n1qrX1fiWozLi__cmz0Gh-7fMsqM2hjODJYS3HEBumg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359405">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359388#comment-1359388" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359389" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495477139"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^The second article that I cited was from the 15 May 2017 issue of <i>Nature Genetics</i>, not <i>Nature Neuroscience.</i></p> <p>Of course, the Couchesne article that DB mentioned was pretty good, too.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359389&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UXDxrJd0YsxLOMprK7Lx2IHWQNy3orbwZnAY8n3_5DY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359389">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359390" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495477457"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Particles are toxic per se</p></blockquote> <p>There's something you don't hear every day.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359390&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3abLP_wgwmbXYmmM74HNom0O0Dvq7Sj7osaLBkrEIV8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359390">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359393" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495478506"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Whaddaya wanna bet if the particles are colloidal silver, they're just hunky-dory?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359393&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0tQV7eTXrbbe9G9X91H1AWpcNHmzw1EHkhdHhRzNbIE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359393">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359406" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495492589"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Colloidal silver does not seem to have the same inflammatory properties as Al adjuvant particles. But I definitely would not inject colloidal silver particles into anyone, especially a baby.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359406&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jwELxBaUmVpz8iFfTZIGwUnyGdEO0O4MYZnP8XGf3KQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359406">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359393#comment-1359393" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359394" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495478993"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There’s something you don’t hear every day.</p></blockquote> <p>Yes but he capitalised it so it must be true. VP Dan, what is the order of tissue distribution for aluminium?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359394&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GtNxxXDknu1rQDmr2NUg78ghIKSCGPuRpCHia_pcsds"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359394">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359396" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495481953"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>1) The MRL used by Mitkus is derived from feeding experiments, not injected Al adjuvant experiments.</p></blockquote> <p>Wrong Dan VP, Mitkus used Priest et al.'s human/IV and Flarend's rabbit/IM aluminium experiments.</p> <blockquote><p>2) Mitkus uses a proposed NOAEL of 26 mg/kg/day, but it is not a NOAEL. More recent science shows harm from ingestion of 3.4 mg/kg/day.</p></blockquote> <p>They do no such thing. Please cite your "more recent science".</p> <blockquote><p>3) Mitkus assumes Al adjuvant particles have zero toxicity. There is no evidence for this, and much evidence it is wrong.</p></blockquote> <p>They do no such thing. Please cite your evidence of harm from Al adjuvants and I'm not going to your site; you can explain it just fine here since you decided to show up. It's almost as if you expect that we haven't read these papers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359396&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yzKVkNad_L2q3OMCkU5NDejcktQtlte9nYAZlWdSdf0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359396">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359408" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495492949"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Wrong Dan VP, Mitkus used Priest et al.’s human/IV and Flarend’s rabbit/IM aluminium experiments."</p> <p>Mitkus used Priest and Flarend for KINETICS data only. For the toxicity data, Mitkus used a single feeding study (Golub 2001, as cited by the AYSDR 2008 report on Al). Golub reported that 26 mg/kg/day is a NOAEL, which us wrong. More recent science shows animals are harmed by 3.4, 4, 5.6, 6, 10 and 20 mg/kg/day aluminum ingestion. </p> <p>So the Mitkus MRL curve is wrong by at least a factor of 7.6. </p> <p>So you refuse to look at any information that challenges your beliefs? No wonder you get everything wrong!</p> <p>"They do no such thing. Please cite your “more recent science”."</p> <p>All these papers are summarized right here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/">http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/</a></p> <p>Oh but you refuse to ever look at the VP blog. Cant be bothered with the facts, I see. </p> <p>"They do no such thing."</p> <p>Mitkus's modeling only considers the toxicity of DISSOLVED Al3+ released by the particles. The toxicity of the particles is not considered or discussed. </p> <p>This issue is analyzed here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/">http://vaccinepapers.org/debunking-aluminum-adjuvant-part-2/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359408&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qelxuWEv_09ghcSxAYuEyMwXOQkPHY9tQwJEeo0fPJU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359408">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359396#comment-1359396" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359409" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495493051"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This paper demonstrates particle-associated toxicity of the Al adjuvant:</p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/al-adjuvant-causes-brain-inflammation-behavioral-disorders/">http://vaccinepapers.org/al-adjuvant-causes-brain-inflammation-behavior…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359409&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KutL3GOR8NGSJwk00eOGcUeEriepumHrTFKi9dZR9gI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359409">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359396#comment-1359396" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359397" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495482152"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Al adjuvant particles are carried to the brain by macrophages.</p></blockquote> <p>If they're so toxic, why don't they kill the macrophages before they magically arrive at the brain to deliver their sinister payload?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359397&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dJsaJyCSYRydYyw0fWyn8M6mDjEBVedtc4hmon7yVzE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359397">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359410" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495493327"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good question. Its likely because the Al adjuvant particles are present inside the macrophage lysosomes, which can be considered to be outside the macrophage. </p> <p>The brain is probably very sensitive to Al adjuvant, for 2 reasons:<br /> 1) The brain is very sensitive to aluminum generally. Causes inflammation of neuro tissues at nanomolar concentrations. </p> <p>2)The brain is very sensitive to inflammation, and Al adjuvant induces inflammation. Its an immunotoxic effect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359410&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8qVLiJVED2HlpL0lSdefJiVAzV_9bKbshuU5RtrRaUw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359410">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359397#comment-1359397" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359398" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495484972"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If they’re so toxic, why don’t they kill the macrophages before they magically arrive at the brain to deliver their sinister payload?</p></blockquote> <p>Because macrophages don't have brainz or immune systems and aluminium is only toxic to brainz or immune systems or both depending on the day of the week and what Mr. Vaccine Papers website thought he read in the literature last month.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359398&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bflovN_R-ozrspFqEm10Rsgd2yeyOUHvlU1MGGnKxaU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359398">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359399" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495491225"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP: "Autism does not begin in utero. Thats never been proven. Correlation is not causation."</p> <p>And yet actual science has discovered at least half of the genetic sequences that cause autism, and they are striving to find the rest. This is why there is a call out for fifty thousand families to participate in this study:<br /><a href="https://sparkforautism.org/">https://sparkforautism.org/</a></p> <p>Here is a video presentation of genetics, the history of autism, and what they have learned... plus the fact there are now parent groups based the their child's genetic sequence:<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOQ9s0GcG5s&amp;index=41&amp;list=PLjvfRtcMhn4PB0NTW0RlvsMJGu1Csnn5s&amp;t=2042s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOQ9s0GcG5s&amp;index=41&amp;list=PLjvfRtcMhn4P…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359399&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sah4Km4V1u8BuNZrOsoNOHbS3IaLQLBLj8tpgIVUXPI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359399">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359407" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495492825"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>110:</p> <blockquote><p>Its injected. SO 100% enters the body. Simple concept.</p></blockquote> <p>If you swallow it, it's ingested. SO 100% enters the body. Simple concept. Apparently no concept is simple enough for you, though.</p> <p>You claim that only .3% of ingested aluminum is absorbed by the body. I assume you're pulling this figure out of your butt, but aluminum that sits around in the muscle at the injection site is going to be absorbed even less efficiently.</p> <p>The elephant in the room is that there is no way to avoid aluminum. It's 8% of the Earth's crust. Every lungful of air is loaded with aluminum-containing <i><b>PARTICLES!!!!!</b></i> that will be absorbed a lot more easily by capillaries in the lungs than in muscle tissue.</p> <p>AND...THIS DOES NO HARM!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359407&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cyhOLPuXDFxZE6HXT0VOfk2ahKk4xgcfOwvvJyyARhI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359407">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359411" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495497355"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers waved her hands and attempted to ignore the mounting evidence that autism begins long before the administration of vaccines that anti-vaxxers have long blamed for ASD by sputtering<br /></p><blockquote>Autism is becain (sic) damage caused by chronic or excessive inflammation during brain development. Can occur during gestation or postnatally. but most cases today occur postnatally, from vaccines.</blockquote> <p>So you got nothing?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359411&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o3r4Y8ipfEJ7G6Rsli8G-odZ3C_jHK1Gm2tnFBJlqzY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359411">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359412" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495498515"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"autism begins long before the administration of vaccines"</p> <p>There are multiple mechanisms.</p> <p>Mechanism 1: Vaccines (that Mom received) induce maternal antibodies that attack the fetal brain.<br /><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_sequence_alignment_between_autoantigens_involved_in_maternal_autoantibody_related_autism_and_vaccine_antigens">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316785758_Strong_protein_seque…</a></p> <p>Mechanism 2: Cow's milk protein contaminated vaccines that the child receives, induce folate receptor autoantibodies that block folate uptake and result in autism.<br /><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Disorders_A_special_case_of_vaccine-induced_cow%27s_milk_allergy">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Diso…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359412&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EYdAzJkjNO4nt2hVqd6ZvMdCQtv_5B5IHWTDVY_-SeA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359412">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359411#comment-1359411" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359414" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495499013"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The argument that the injury occurs in utero is based on unsupported assumptions, and is contradicted by better quality evidence showing the brain can be unjured by inflammation postnatally. </p> <p>For example, Hotez and other have argued that cortical layer disruption must happen in utero because this is mostly when these layers form. Well, thats not totally true (layers continue to form postnatally), and its a bad assumption that layers cannot be disrupted by subsequent inflammation occurring during developing. Its an assumption without evidence. </p> <p>This study shows that infants later diagnosed with autism have normal eye tracking as neonates, and this eye tracking deteriorates over 2-6 months, when vaccines are given: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24196715">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24196715</a></p> <p>While some cases of autism are definitely the result of gestational injury , the evidence clearly indicates this is not the case for all (or most) cases. </p> <p>The human brain develops intensely postnatally. The brain is vulnerable to immune activation/cytokine injury during development. In particular, synaptogenesis is MORE intense in the postnatal period, and disruption of synapse formation is definitely involved in autism. </p> <p>An important study (Wei 2012) showed that IL-6 elevation in the brain, BEGINNING POSTNATALLY, caused synapse imbalance (excess excitation) and autistic behavioral abnormalities. </p> <p>the overwhelming majority of the evidence shows that the developing brain is vulnerable to immune activation injury in the postnatal period. </p> <p>More on that here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/postnatal-immune-activation/">http://vaccinepapers.org/postnatal-immune-activation/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359414&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KSQOzN8-vnbTgSIM205SkPfDRC0CJP1ik10O59gGaOw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359414">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359411#comment-1359411" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359417" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495500143"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Note this paper states:</p> <p>"in the first months of life, this basic mechanism of social adaptive action--eye looking--is not immediately diminished in infants later diagnosed with ASD; instead, eye looking appears to begin at normative levels prior to decline."</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24196715">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24196715</a></p> <p>So, infants later-diagnosed with autism have normal eye tracking at birth. Their eye tracking deteriorates during months 2-12, when lots of neurotoxic vaccines are given.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359417&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xTNahzEL6kHkd1UZdK9uUozawJsLIndOLdiuJZ5hSvk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359417">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359411#comment-1359411" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359413" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495498616"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>“autism begins long before the administration of vaccines”</p> <p>Cow's milk contaminated Tdap is administered to every pregnant woman to protect the newborn against pertussis. As described in the article below, Tdap can cause the synthesis of folate receptor autoantibodies (FRAA).</p> <p>Autism Spectrum Disorders: A special case of vaccine-induced cow’s milk allergy?</p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Disorders_A_special_case_of_vaccine-induced_cow%27s_milk_allergy?ev=prf_pub">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Diso…</a></p> <p>Such maternal FRAA bind to folate receptors in the fetal brain, block folate uptake and affect brain development. Similarly, they can also block folate uptake to the fetal thyroid gland and affect thyroid development.</p> <p>Maternal FRAA in breast milk can continue the damage in the newborn. A vaccine schedule with numerous cow's milk contaminated vaccines can cause the child to begin synthesizing FRAA. </p> <p>So Mom can synthesize FRAA. The child can synthesize FRAA. Or both. This can explain the spectrum in Autism Spectrum Disorders.</p> <p>Maternal FRAA associated ASD may be mistaken as having a genetic origin when in fact vaccines are still to blame.</p> <p>Would the following preventive measures help until the vaccines are cleaned up?</p> <p>Pregnant women should be tested for FRAA and IgE to folate receptor protein.</p> <p>If positive, they should avoid cow's milk to reduce FRAA levels.</p> <p>Folinic acid treatment for pregnant/lactating women?</p> <p>Delay administering cow's milk contaminated vaccines to the newborn until cow's milk is introduced in the diet? Thus reducing the risk of synthesizing IgE (and eventually FRAA) to cow's milk proteins.</p> <p>Thyroid dysfunction in children with autism spectrum disorder is associated with<br /> folate receptor alpha autoimmune disorder</p> <p><a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jne.12461/epdf">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jne.12461/epdf</a></p> <p>Folinic acid improves verbal communication in children with autism and language impairment: a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial</p> <p><a href="http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2016168a.html">http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2016168a.html</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359413&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Qj68GSOT6Jl1xN4DGCbyXiZplEqdhyI5D3Sg-c1KqYo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359413">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359415" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495499380"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ORAC</p> <p>"VP’s traffic must be down, given all the link whoring he’s doing in the comments here."</p> <p>The questions and objections here are not new. I have answered them in detail many times. Several articles on the VP blog are written to address the common questions and objections. </p> <p>So thats why I provide the links. I could also copy/paste the articles. Would you prefer that? the cited papers and images would not show up. </p> <p>I invite you to write rebuttals to my answers to the common questions (e.g. about immune activation injury, Al adjuvant toxicity and kinetics, the Mitkus paper etc).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359415&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ep-X4vdwEWtLcJDob52UaSJP6_jQQMIad_Vpm59YY_E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359415">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359416" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495499574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@154 (Vaccine Papers)</p> <p>OK, you don't understand developmental biology and you didn't read the full-text papers that I cited. What else?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359416&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JNUDTa6V0EGFDiQl4ohMSENtEX5GirHfRDtZR5esdvg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359416">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359418" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495505219"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@VaccinePapers #154:</p> <blockquote><p>The argument that the injury occurs in utero...</p></blockquote> <p>Assumes that autism is as a result of injury, not genetics. Please try again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359418&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZkWS9tCReU7GeZx0iNIPp82qeZ9lcBnGmO_OPoWGAb8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359418">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359432" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495520444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The evidence that autism is primarily genetic is very weak. its a gene-environment interaction. Autism is rare without the environmental exposure (usually vaccines). </p> <p>The "its genetic" argument is based on twin studies. but the twin studies are based on a bad assumption: that there are no gene-environment (GXE) interactions in autism. In order for the twin studies to calculate the genetic and environmental contributions to risk, it must be assumed that GXE interactions are not present. If GXE interactions are present, they falsely inflate the genetic/heritablity estimate. </p> <p>“In basic twin models, gene–environment interactions are assumed not to exist, and if present, they are included as part of the additive genetic variance, inflating heritability estimates.”</p> <p>“In some contexts, gene–environment interactions, i.e., that environments modify the effects of genes on the trait being studied, may account for a substantial part of the apparent heritability.”<br /> quotes from:<br /><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22934540">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22934540</a></p> <p>There is a lot of evidence for GXE interactions in autism. </p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260177/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260177/</a></p> <p>So, the high estimates (70-90%) of heritability in autism are wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359432&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q-xgIpvd7Bp-MlTrL7JUjRTHFUZgoKmoo0e444xIu0k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359432">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359418#comment-1359418" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359500" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531227"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Assumes that autism is as a result of injury"</p> <p>Not only are some forms of autism a result of injury, it is partially reversible. Folate receptor autoantibodies block folate uptake and cause injury. It can be reversed by folinic acid treatment.</p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Disorders_A_special_case_of_vaccine-induced_cow%27s_milk_allergy">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313524429_Autism_Spectrum_Diso…</a></p> <p>Folinic acid improves verbal communication in children with autism and language impairment: a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial</p> <p><a href="http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2016168a.html">http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2016168a.html</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359500&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w9Wjw6afs_yQ1PGIz_ZgWX_ONOg5JRIa_CY3sPtq1e8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359500">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359418#comment-1359418" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359419" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495508052"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>All this leaves me wondering whether Sin Hang Lee has any new scams going these days.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359419&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_HK5K66j3oEuiXgMCmCNBC6moPCW1fApAGtbhO0AYXk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359419">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359420" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495512479"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You always fail to address the scientific issues. Why is that?</p></blockquote> <p>I address scientific issues practically every day. It is you whom I choose not to address. There's a difference. I'm not a fan of going down the rabbit hole chasing a practitioner of the Gish gallop.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359420&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mfy1PKzILm6xH4mrbU_HhxDHb9Rq3Sf7ED-OUH9oydI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359420">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359421" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495513841"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ VP<br /> Is there any randomized trial of delaying vaccines in high risk babies?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359421&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m5SWCgc-p-tsqZDrDfHGNoxiaKKmFOzJeJ8r230bHE0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359421">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359422" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495513980"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>This study shows that infants later diagnosed with autism have normal eye tracking as neonates, and this eye tracking deteriorates over 2-6 months, when vaccines are given: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24196715">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24196715</a></b></p> <p>The key word from the publication in question is decline, not <b>deteriorate</b>, don't try to twist word please. An alternative explanation to aluminum can be explained by perceptual functioning, namely enhanced perceptual functioning (<a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=search&amp;term=Mottron+L">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=search&amp;term=Mottron+L</a>) in which case, the neonate wouldn't just focus on the eyes but other features in the environment and I would be very curious about your answer, VP, to that and how the h*ll, aluminum is supposed to enhance perceptual functioning given that the bellcurve (you do know about statistics) properly emulate random events (i.e. by your tangent, aluminum is not neuron specific) yet, enhanced perceptual functioning is nowhere near a random effect; it is neuron and brain area specific.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359422&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WAH8VTsZtnWVi_Z5_IaymzZ2raYOJKjOP6VDsYbF1LU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359422">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359423" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495514235"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>more about the bellcurve:</p> <p><a href="https://mathbabe.org/2017/05/22/eugene-stern-how-value-added-models-are-like-turds/">https://mathbabe.org/2017/05/22/eugene-stern-how-value-added-models-are…</a></p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359423&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fJsVDd4pdioyBVAmjieEYBahzrd25bkxeR2l0Kyhv_A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359423">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359424" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495515450"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Given that VP made the hysterical claim that autism *can begin* as late at 10-11 years old (totally ignoring the diagnostic criteria required), I'll take anything posted by them with many, many grains of salt.</p> <p>BTW...how did we end up with the unholy trinity of VP, MJD and VA all posting their own Idee fixe on one blog post?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359424&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="b9sDZQwL-6OwAzrNvDKT1DKUI8dDhNNafCMIGX6zZLQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359424">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359425" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495515584"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It might not be that bad a thing. Keep them quarantined from the rest of the blog. :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359425&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p0BWezm4s-JZY6rhxUgzpSe9jSb4UZ0PVwLV1m7II_0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359425">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359424#comment-1359424" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359426" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495516410"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>BTW…how did we end up with the unholy trinity of VP, MJD and VA all posting their own Idee fixe on one blog post?</i></p> <p>that post itch under their fingernails...</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359426&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ghz6grz8mvKrySazlcVcLTeu8seslAI1B3o6IfUgacM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359426">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359427" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495517251"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You claim that only .3% of ingested aluminum is absorbed by the body. I assume you’re pulling this figure out of your butt, but aluminum that sits around in the muscle at the injection site is going to be absorbed even less efficiently.</p></blockquote> <p>The literature quotes the 0.3% figure. </p> <p>The figure for bioavailability from vaccine injection into muscle is 17%, so larger, but over 28 days. However, there is a lot more exposure by ingestion than by vaccination.</p> <p>Added to this there has been 80 years of use of aluminium adjuvants in vaccines and somehow they have only been causing autism for the last 15 years once thiomersal was removed. It is truly magic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359427&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="34Pu7MH-PPDg1PIbPR3PSnGngEAgp-xGJ7FFdhM-EyY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359427">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359428" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495517438"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>BTW…how did we end up with the unholy trinity of VP, MJD and VA all posting their own Idee fixe on one blog post?</p></blockquote> <p>The bit I like is how they have all been congratulating each other on their insights, despite the three theses being completely at odds. It has been a nice little illustration of crank magnetism writ small.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359428&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0c0-d7TSgWtbJDAJnXEJH9C859vl8O8WbKa7PYMAdh4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359428">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359429" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495517658"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris,</p> <p>I have to admit I'm very curious to see how VP will drive out of the cognitive dissonance he/she drove into WRT my comment.</p> <p>Very curious indeed.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359429&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uLw5QM6x-7NHBG-JsxE-f5tVADxEzZAiz5NTn2nQmcc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359429">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359430" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495518407"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I have to admit I’m very curious to see how VP will drive out of the cognitive dissonance he/she drove into WRT my comment.</p></blockquote> <p>Alain, their normal response has been to change the topic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359430&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zn67aExOpDqQ8LSmu3ulzwrolLo6viJeJ7PXrAtxoQI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359430">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359431" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495518917"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Alain, their normal response has been to change the topic.</i></p> <p>Unfortunately, I know. It's a friggen game of whack-a-mole but see my comment on our host today's post. An "interesting" side effect of such a proposal would be never ending "fun" playing whack-a-mole with them.</p> <p>(No I wouldn't look forward to 3000+ comments posts...)</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359431&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QMRYKi3IjyD_wO3JYSQELV0oP70CkYCv7HFx1DFbyVA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359431">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359433" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495520703"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I would be very curious about your answer, VP, to that and how the h*ll, aluminum is supposed to enhance perceptual functioning "</p> <p>It doesnt. Aluminum causes brain injury. The decline in eye tracking indicates pathology, not heathy/normal functioning.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359433&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GNsjl4qSGOwmXKR02FeYHIeHTuoU3RlJSvqBHqFZWX4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359433">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359434" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495521076"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Given that VP made the hysterical claim that autism *can begin* as late at 10-11 years old (totally ignoring the diagnostic criteria required), "</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12369775">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12369775</a></p> <p>“On the DSM-IV symptom checklist for autistic disorder, he met all the criteria for autism except the onset criterion because he did not have a history of any symptoms before three years of age.”</p> <p>The authors state that this case “… provides further evidence that autistic symptoms can sometimes emerge after the age of three years following an external event such as an infection.”</p> <p>The age 3 diagnostic requirement is arbitrary. Its not based on any mechanistic understanding of the injury. </p> <p>Autism is brain injury caused by inflammation and cytokines. The brain becomes less vulnerable to injury with maturation. Children over age 3 can experience the same injury from inflammation as younger children.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359434&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pvz2zVXN7wW40v-MX1Rp6J-SOymwUA5K0Ee0KlTNGi0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359434">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359435" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495521202"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers, aluminum is one of the most common elements on the planet. Why are we not seeing the same results people getting dirt in wounds?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359435&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Gf3FtlZu4tXX6gUYKwGtJg-cBV-XG7tkwThLLuQDD0I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Falcon (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359435">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359591" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495616568"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gray Falcon,</p> <p>"Vaccine Papers, aluminum is one of the most common elements on the planet. Why are we not seeing the same results people getting dirt in wounds?"</p> <p>If dirt cheap dirt worked as well as aluminum adjuvant, why would vaccine makers not use dirt as an adjuvant instead for paying for Alhydrogel?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359591&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xYZOJ2nStCt__cUrLj8J40LAm8O1XUNNhCH2CAP4ExA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359591">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359435#comment-1359435" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gray Falcon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359436" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495521490"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"The figure for bioavailability from vaccine injection into muscle is 17%, so larger, but over 28 days. However, there is a lot more exposure by ingestion than by vaccination."</p> <p>For AlOH, its 6% over 28 days (Flarend 1997). </p> <p>Not true for ages 0-6 months. Do the calculations. And you can even use the 6% and 22% numbers from Flarend (which ignore toxicity of the particles). </p> <p>Birth (Hep B): 74 mcg/kg (250 mcg for 3.4 kg infant)<br /> 2 month: 245 mcg/kg (1225 mcg for 5 kg infant)<br /> 4 month: 150 mcg/kg (975 mcg for 6.5 kg infant)<br /> 6 month: 153 mcg/kg (1225 mcg for 8 kg infant)</p> <p>Total for 0-6 months: 3675 mcg aluminum<br /> 6 months from ingestion:<br /> breastmilk: 7mg x 0.3% = 21 mcg (0.021 mg)<br /> formula: 38mg x 0.3% = 114 mcg (0.114 mg)<br /> soy formula: 117mg x 0.3% = 351 mcg (0.351mg)</p> <p>6% of 3675 mcg is 220 mcg, x 6 months (rough estimate) gives about 1300 mcg. And thats with the false assumption that all the Al is AlOH (which has lower solubility than AlPO4). </p> <p>1300/21 mcg = 62X more than from human milk. </p> <p>For AlPO4, the number is higher.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359436&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sa1magNf4CFPoM1Fp8T3Qn-5GHll_NTovVz5tygIUGw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359436">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359437" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495521743"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Vaccine Papers, aluminum is one of the most common elements on the planet. Why are we not seeing the same results people getting dirt in wounds?"</p> <p>1) dirt is generally not nanoparticulate unlike Al adjuvant, which is a gel, and 2) people clean their wounds, and 3) dirt in wounds is superficially deep, not injected into muscle.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359437&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SSaDyR5CZvNrqP0RmWimF6jBgwQQaZE9icnS073yM_g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359437">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359438" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495522278"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I address scientific issues practically every day. It is you whom I choose not to address. There’s a difference. I’m not a fan of going down the rabbit hole chasing a practitioner of the Gish gallop.</p> <p>Orac-</p> <p>You cannot describe my arguments as a gish gallop. I make 3 arguments: aluminum toxicity, immune activation and healthy user bias. THREE. </p> <p>And I am specific about how they relate to autism (Al injection&gt;Al transport to brain&gt;IL-6 in brain&gt; autism). I make detailed, falsifiable claims, and I show my reasoning. I dont hide the ball. I dont make vague assertions. I dont make dozens of superficial claims without reasing (thats a true gish gallop). </p> <p>So I say you avoid my arguments because you do not know how to refute them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359438&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vcJxqOKJBPFLvVEcH4L67UZcBQUKH_JVkQs71AoWk6U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359438">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359439" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495522651"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>It doesnt. Aluminum causes brain injury. The decline in eye tracking indicates pathology, not heathy/normal functioning</b></p> <p>Oh, So that body of knowledge here: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=search&amp;term=Mottron+L">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=search&amp;term=Mottron+L</a> does not exist? You need to take a stronger look because the subject described by that aforementioned body of knowledge are indeed autistic and it was found that they have increased perceptual functioning. Let me explain that again VP, <b>autism</b> == <b>enhanced perceptual functioning</b></p> <p>Do you get it?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359439&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u3IrmkRT-YuVmcSW1Iik_SZP4pMTFjFL9VtP7iOflzs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359439">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359440" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495522861"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Added to this there has been 80 years of use of aluminium adjuvants in vaccines and somehow they have only been causing autism for the last 15 years once thiomersal was removed. It is truly magic."</p> <p>Dosage of Al adjuvant from vaccines increased enormously during the 1990s, when the autism epidemic exploded. </p> <p>other factors contribute, like vitamin D deficiency for example. </p> <p>Al adjuvant has never been shown to be neurologically safe in EMPIRICAL studies. The safety studies (e.g. Mitkus) are garbage and not look at neurological outcomes. Further, the Mitkus analysis is not based on ANY empirical safety/toxicity data for Al adjuvant. Mitkus only uses toxicity data for INGESTED aluminum lactate (from a SINGLE study-Golub 2001). </p> <p>The toxicity data used by Mitkus is from this study: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11485839">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11485839</a></p> <p>All the empirical evidence shows that Al adjuvant causes brain injury at vaccine dosages. Here is the latest study:</p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/wp-content/uploads/Non-linear-dose-response-of-aluminium-hydroxide-adjuvant-particles-Selective-low-dose-neurotoxicity.pdf">http://vaccinepapers.org/wp-content/uploads/Non-linear-dose-response-of…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359440&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UM5GB2sOr4ilRBxR_ptPxqlo4XBKZyfjmvLO7VP0Yrc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359440">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359441" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495523273"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"it was found that they have increased perceptual functioning"</p> <p>In what way? Can you be more specific about what was enhanced?</p> <p>In autism, there is an excitatory/inhibitory synapse imbalance, in favor of excitation. It may be that in early development, the excess of excitation produces increased sensitivity to stimuli. Is this what you are referring to? Is your "increased functioning" the result of excess excitation?</p> <p>The excitatory excess is certainly pathological at older ages (causes hypersensitivity to lights, sounds, stimming etc).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359441&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vnEsUvUeH1K33L5zCcFB7jxYKZ1ZnjitpVIeGhcCzQU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359441">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359442" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495523810"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I suppose you are talking about this one:</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27631982">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27631982</a></p> <p>Interesting results there. Impossible to know if the improved visual reasoning is caused by the cause of autism (inflammation) or is a result of the genes that confer autism risk (via GXE interaction with vaccines). </p> <p>There was an article yesterday that intelligence-associated genes are also associated with autism. So the visual performance results may be because the genes that confer autism risk, also provide improved visual reasoning. Impossible to know the causal connections.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359442&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LOrP6eLjEOLnsrX20abpXLatiBeM-RDvpyrdgMEpt7U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359442">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359443" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495524185"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP,</p> <p>Not at all, look at my link again because this is the search result for 128 publications with over 4/5 of them on enhanced perceptual functioning by the same PI, Laurent Mottron. Obviously, this is not the only body of knowledge on enhanced perceptual functioning (other groups are investigating that hypothesis) but this one is the most familiar to me, I worked for the PI.</p> <p>128 publication spanning close to 2 decades. Look at the link again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359443&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_FjBpTpvr2J48GNMHDMkNOAYxBKv4Eee6l3aD9kQLZw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359443">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359447" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525536"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OK i get it. Autism is associated with enhanced visual reasoning, according to these tests. Thats interesting, but does not mean much in the present discussion. Why are you citing this?</p> <p>if your point is that there is no way aluminum could cause this, I disagree. The mechanism for autism causation is inflammation. And inflammation causes many changes in how the brain develops, connectivity etc. Most changes are pathological. But I certainly would never argue that absolutely 100% of the changes caused by high inflammation in the brain are pathological according to every measurement test. </p> <p>its clear that autism is pathological.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359447&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sQ5S25NHbBUy9fg3IFGD_OvJOokCjrukhSja8IufemM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359447">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359443#comment-1359443" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359444" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525146"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Is there any randomized trial of delaying vaccines in high risk babies?"</p> <p>No. This is the type of study thats needed. The results would put an end to this ongoing tragic failure of orthodox medicine. </p> <p>the medical establishment is terrified of facing he blame for the autism epidemic and epidemic of vaccine injury, so they oppose well-designed research into vaccine injury.. But science and truth cannot be stopped forever. </p> <p>Orthodox medicine will be deeply ashamed and embarrassed when the truth is known.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359444&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="O0roXvsxmr414tZL8Ju3caO2fF_cy5wTUpqI8NbRzNI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359444">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359445" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525194"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Mitkus used Priest and Flarend for KINETICS data only. For the toxicity data, Mitkus used a single feeding study (Golub 2001, as cited by the AYSDR 2008 report on Al). Golub reported that 26 mg/kg/day is a NOAEL, which us wrong. More recent science shows animals are harmed by 3.4, 4, 5.6, 6, 10 and 20 mg/kg/day aluminum ingestion.</p></blockquote> <p>No, Mitkus et al. (sec. 2.4) used the ATSDR Tox Profile 2008 (which consists of several studies) to establish MRL and pharmacokinetics are intrinsically tied to availability, excretion and deposition. By all means cite your evidence of harms with the figures you posited.</p> <blockquote><p>So the Mitkus MRL curve is wrong by at least a factor of 7.6. </p></blockquote> <p>Prove it. Show your evidence here; I'm not going to your site.</p> <blockquote><p>So you refuse to look at any information that challenges your beliefs? No wonder you get everything wrong!</p></blockquote> <p>No, I refuse to bring this to your crank site. You came here making the claims, you show the evidence.</p> <blockquote><p>Mitkus’s modeling only considers the toxicity of DISSOLVED Al3+ released by the particles. The toxicity of the particles is not considered or discussed. </p></blockquote> <p>Ooooo the <i>particles</i>. Toxicity was already established so whatever you're on about is outside the scope of the Mitkus et al. paper. You have still yet to establish your claim as well as tell me the order of tissue distribution of aluminium.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359445&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AoSeWLelCuTxLUaHRysoJfSqY9ZijYTFDWjb3xf-7jw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359445">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359446" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525339"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Orthodox medicine will be deeply ashamed and embarrassed when the truth is known.</p></blockquote> <p>Of course and only bold, maverick, amateur "scientists" like yourself will show us the way. How long have you kooks been at this?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359446&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vCaC_815Tc9rdvRnJoxAXpNvSDNEODk8UX1laaSVgVE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359446">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359448" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525554"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@VP: autism is a <b>developmental delay</b> not inflammation of the brain, TBI, or anything else. You posted a paper from 2002. While the first author has a respectable CV, I don't see any publications on THIS subject more recent that about 2005. I assume he's moved beyond that theory in those years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359448&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="v4UcLePLvRfp246WBxqix4Bg7rx7k-206fFALIL0HPs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359448">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359449" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525710"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Science Mom,</p> <p>I guess I can color myself embarrassed and ashamed to divert part of the funding in the research for autism... ;)</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359449&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9v3q_SlK6LxDa6omVHzwkgIhTJ6aHxCYmIDFnmb0oBo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359449">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359450" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495525872"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I mean "this subject" as autism being an environmental insult.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359450&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ED9Znadpt74pJLcpoPaCrHrTB9StD2waGy5WpJsVd14"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359450">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359451" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526111"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"No, Mitkus et al. (sec. 2.4) used the ATSDR Tox Profile 2008"</p> <p>The ATSDR gets its NOAEL number (26 mg/kg/day) from Golub 2001. </p> <p>if the 26 mg/kg/day NOAEL is wrong, then Mitkus is wrong. And 26 mg/kg/day is wrong. Its definitely NOT a NOAEL. </p> <p>"Prove it. Show your evidence here; I’m not going to your site."</p> <p>Its based on a 2016 study from Alawdi et al showing neurotoxicity (behavioral changes and neuroinflammation) from a dosage of 3.4 mg/kg/day (17 mg/kg/day AlCl3). </p> <p>26/3.4 = 7.6. So, the Mitkus MRL is wrong by a factor of AT LEAST 7.6. I say at least because 3.4 mg/kg/day is not a NOAEL. Adverse effects were observed at this dosage. </p> <p>Here is the Alawdi study:: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/26897372/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/26897372/</a></p> <p>This article explains this stuff in detail (for people not scared by information they disagree with): <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/">http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/</a></p> <p>Alawdi is NOT the only study showing toxic effects at dosages less than 26 mg/kg/day. There are many others (I count 7-8 or so). </p> <p>"Ooooo the particles."</p> <p>Yes the particles. They matter. Particles have different transport/kinetics properties and totally different mechanisms of toxicity. </p> <p>Here is a review paper on the subject:</p> <p>"Toxicity of Nanomaterials"</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703119/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703119/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359451&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FwvH_axTiXQTS27sv2c3rZBculSXl0QqC0CO6QYe4_g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359451">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359452" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526219"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't know if you're thivk or just stubborn, Vaccine Papers.</p> <blockquote><p>Autism is associated with enhanced visual reasoning, according to these tests. Thats interesting, but does not mean much in the present discussion. Why are you citing this?</p></blockquote> <p>The key phrase there is "enhanced reasoning", which would appear to refute your conjecture that autism is a brain injury.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359452&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VgAvMwJ_QjGT9nk1HWmlqExAiA8La6GJwNYNQv0pkFM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359452">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359453" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526259"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"autism is a developmental delay not inflammation of the brain,"</p> <p>There is widespread, intense and chronic inflammation in the brains of autistic people. Lots of studies on this. </p> <p>Here is the seminal paper on this topic: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546155">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546155</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359453&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="79JHc3-e6Y89A8TJ8-RL-z2NkLuvjgE5j8UdE43PJbE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359453">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359454" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526326"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks Julian,</p> <p>You said it better than I could. I need to work on my phrasing &amp; writing ability.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359454&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yym0SQu2ADps79aVlYnioGuyQ6CCYelnUcMxWwI3bOQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359454">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359455" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP: the doses DO NOT STACK. Aluminum is excreted by the kidneys. Any aluminum given in one dose is eliminated well before a subsequent one is given.</p> <p>If your insane theory were correct, EVERYONE would have neurological impairments.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359455&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NaBfNBrNic_jHpaOl599ES8e5M_ne8DWrmcxrAuebVY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359455">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359456" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526653"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If that's what he considered to be the "seminal" work, no wonder he's delusional.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359456&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SgpKxstvznzmVK68zG5n_dVMzj0mfmEJUe1dhwzh9TI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359456">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359457" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526668"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"The key phrase there is “enhanced reasoning”, which would appear to refute your conjecture that autism is a brain injury."</p> <p>enhanced VISUAL reasoning, according to the specific test. </p> <p>Autism is very clearly a brain injury and pathological, even if by some measures they perform better. </p> <p>As I pointed out, we dont know if the enhancement is due to the autism, or merely associated with it (e.g. the enhancement may be because the genes that confer autism risk also improve visual reasoning). </p> <p>Schizophrenia is also associated with some enhancements in visual performance tasks. </p> <p>Does this mean that schizophrenia is not pathological?</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756604/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756604/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359457&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oIWedbOv_0TK8kbc7zZbhU66gkTooCmNuzogdc5p87s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359457">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359458" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Vaccine Papers #196, I had a look at the paper you referenced.<br /> 1) It dates back to 2005. Please use something more up to date.<br /> 2) Sample size.</p> <blockquote><p>Brain tissues from cerebellum, midfrontal, and cingulate gyrus obtained at autopsy from 11 patients with autism were used for morphological studies. Fresh-frozen tissues available from seven patients and CSF from six living autistic patients were used for cytokine protein profiling.</p></blockquote> <p>That's just 24 subjects. 11 corpses, seven non-autistic patients and six autistic patients.<br /> Somehow, that doesn't strike me as very convincing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359458&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="A3KD-eoAHDpstHRkoh33wjEWev_BGR1mAKow9JWQNTk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359458">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359459" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526825"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"If that’s what he considered to be the “seminal” work, no wonder he’s delusional."</p> <p>The vargas paper has been cited by 339 other papers. its one of the most highly cited papers in the autism literature. It stimulated huge interest in brain inflammation in autism. Its definitely seminal and very important.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359459&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cBZUmpQ2ROOJirfh3GsCrQ1SOF9tloocJCiL6Z5KT50"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359459">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359460" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495526974"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Vargas results have been replicated many times. Example: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23404112">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23404112</a></p> <p>Its proven beyond any doubt that the brain is inflamed in autism. There is no debate about this. Its as settled as science ever gets.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359460&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AJJgUK6Y5ZNfu_VhpXQj3Yk8AAN0i2AFBrVm-YpWp_8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359460">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359461" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527065"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So important that you can't cite anything better?</p> <p>Sorry, but color me entirely unconvinced.</p> <p>So how exactly do unvaccinated children suffer from exactly the same symptoms of autism as children who are vaccinated?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359461&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gn934MQcKaYlNZW6eonjEmWMKNMjOf4LoVs67bSbrQQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359461">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359462" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527165"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"the doses DO NOT STACK. Aluminum is excreted by the kidneys. Any aluminum given in one dose is eliminated well before a subsequent one is given."</p> <p>Not true. See Flarend 1997, which provides the best data on Al adjuvant kinetics. It showed that excretion of Al adjuvant after 28 days is:</p> <p>6% for AlOH<br /> 22% for AlPO4. </p> <p>Other studies show it hangs around for months and years. Khan 2013 demonstrated Al adjuvant particles in mouse brain ONE YEAR after injection. </p> <p>the kidney cannot excrete Al adjuvant particles. They dont even travel via the blood. They are carried around the body by macrophages.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359462&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8b_tXdjC1Ydquq9bxVwe7vGD2A5gECvYE8ERnYccvhs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359462">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359463" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527207"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And diseases such as measles, which used to infect just about everyone back in the day, caused much more robust "inflammatory" responses than any vaccine could.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359463&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iwgOnsjAy--vMtPeBsB-SwxP4LSDg4e2RDCviL0onsE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359463">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359464" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527233"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP,</p> <p>Instead of relying on a single paper about enhanced visual reasoning for which you provided the situation, how about you look at the 128 papers I mentioned and which also, refute your hypothesis of brain damage?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359464&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UVJgATyB_BiztEIR0C2DCd0PiuspJnJRWHayU2jd12g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359464">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359465" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527265"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Someone has aluminum on the brain, and it isn't people with autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359465&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FOQbGzLg4WlXe_wlEZ_MLFiUlOOSW3abBWiuejChfuQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359465">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359466" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527269"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"So how exactly do unvaccinated children suffer from exactly the same symptoms of autism as children who are vaccinated?"</p> <p>CITATION NEEDED. There is no study supporting your claim. </p> <p>Note that the MMR vaccine does not contain aluminum, and its the only vaccine studied in relation to autism. There have been no epidemiological studies of Al adjuvant exposure and autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359466&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lxsQ-6qBp34gaF5Z_4YTPe9dPastLSQAakZrGWr6Xg0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359466">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359467" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527288"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>typo: situation == citation.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359467&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NgfUaFAO2v1SZwtZ3ZyN2GGdpuH_KreXgYhl8Nv3vKI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359467">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359468" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"And diseases such as measles, which used to infect just about everyone back in the day, caused much more robust “inflammatory” responses than any vaccine could."</p> <p>What matters is inflammation in the brain. Al adjuvant causes inflammation in the brain specifically. </p> <p>Also, chronic inflammation is what matters. Inflammation from an infectious illness is transient. Al adjuvant causes long term, chronic brain inflammation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359468&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8REdwC-g4EJ_DNCkorOcoDuplyRCC2J4Sn4hzEaeE_A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359468">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359469" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527532"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"how about you look at the 128 papers I mentioned and which also, refute your hypothesis of brain damage?"</p> <p>Im not going to dig through 128 papers to find support for your argument. Thats your job. You are making a GISH GALLOP. I looked at a number of them and did not immediately see that all of them reported enhancements. </p> <p>What enhancements occur other than visual reasoning in the specific test mentioned in that paper I identified?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359469&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IgJNe_MCCPgX0BRZ0dOOu6U5TzML76pHQ0kLCifm-HI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359469">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359470" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527721"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow, just wow.</p> <p>And I wonder why VP is wasting all of our time here &amp; not submitting for a Nobel Prize?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359470&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vxZFXJCzE0LoW6a9i04-jt7FhQFZDfWunVcoUNYBq2o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359470">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359471" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527730"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Sorry, but color me entirely unconvinced."</p> <p>You are skeptical that inflammation is present in the autistic brain?</p> <p>This is autism 101. Please learn the basic scientific facts about the disorder before commenting.</p> <p><a href="https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-suggests-brain-inflammation-hallmark-autism">https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-suggests-brain-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359471&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H-7Qjt3Gkzfc_1boIANmoJQ1ec2b_0C_FRhMjOYQm70"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359471">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359472" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495527835"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"And I wonder why VP is wasting all of our time here &amp; not submitting for a Nobel Prize?"</p> <p>Ah the Nobel prize gambit. So funny! Like I havent heard that bullshit before. Vaccine promoters are so predictable. </p> <p>Thats not an argument.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359472&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pqhrp1N1_CBFnpJV7JjO5vhg0Ml-q102wjmO6_cygPw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359472">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359473" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Vaccine Papers #203:</p> <blockquote><p>The Vargas results have been replicated many times...Its proven beyond any doubt that the brain is inflamed in autism.</p></blockquote> <p>No it isn't. As to the study you mentioned, it had 20 subjects. In addition, "excessive microglial activation" is not indicative of brain injury.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359473&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4slzQ2czmpxifA_km2OSr-g0_bo8aHWKQTRoSy4a8cI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359473">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359474" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528132"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"The investigators conclude that the brain inflammation likely resulted from, rather than caused, autism"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359474&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H9xNMC7E5BS99OR3AG5SDiKPpi9SxHTOQp2g62uxxxQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359474">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359476" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528316"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There are lots of other studies establishing inflammation&gt; autism causation. Like this study in monkeys. </p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24011823">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24011823</a></p> <p>Epidemiological studies in humans also show that autism is caused by immune activation (inflammation).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359476&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G2T7Ua3enrm4gwNDLZDw2vahty-0q3Iy0VlxxTWY834"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359476">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359474#comment-1359474" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359475" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528187"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>You are making a GISH GALLOP</b></p> <p>False accusation. I provide the evidence against your hypothesis of autism being brain damage. There is also auditory enhancements and better results on the Raven Standard progressive matrix including in neuroimaging beside faster response time.</p> <p>Now if you won't go read that evidence, you have no business or any grounding to say that autism is a result vaccine injuries.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359475&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JmOaTtM7gAA02g7jI5MIZFWsSWTCTmx_SuztUM_GEGo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359475">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359478" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528470"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Link to the specific citations and I will look at them. Not going to look at a list of 128 unsorted papers produced by a search query!</p> <p>Enhancements in a few types of test results does not establish its not a brain injury/pathological. Overwhelming science shows autism is a brain injury.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359478&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yVEUDix0fuKsGt_3hKS1FFsw-oiTmQ74IdLs0QwmPHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359478">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359475#comment-1359475" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359477" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528418"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A study mentioned by "Autism Speaks" in 2014? Seriously?<br /> "Autism Speaks" pushed the "vaccines cause autism" line long after it was no longer tenable. And the number of subjects?</p> <blockquote><p>The investigators compared gene expression in 72 brains, 47 of which came from children and adults affected by autism.</p></blockquote> <p>Another study with a ridiculously small sample size. That's the third one you've posted. And did you see the word "suggests"? That doesn't mean the study is definitive, just preliminary.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359477&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="koKEuzfFxay6zwTMG8K4_91TePPFLe1-u_9gITg-ss0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359477">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359479" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528583"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And that rhesus monkey study you mention had 13 subjects and 11 controls. "Underpowered" doesn't even begin to cover it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359479&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fIjgRRpfqhlarcdZMPTo5EsGFASGIcsGgJR-_aCjttc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359479">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359480" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528587"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There is widespread, intense and chronic inflammation in the brains of autistic people. Lots of studies on this.</p> <p>Here is the seminal paper on this topic: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546155">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15546155</a></p></blockquote> <p>The authors of that small study are mortified by how it has been co-opted and completely abused by cranks like you leading to parents shovelling Rx anti-inflammatories and anti-virals into their autistic children. No, there is not "widespread, intense and chronic inflammation in the brains of autistic people." And no there are not "lots of studies on this." Not surprised ignorant attention-whores like you just make things up though.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359480&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zlwmS6vdeoQ3hqQBMrzMi5vgnPB1mikSYCJhHyld2G0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359480">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359490" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495529706"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just making sure you see this response re: Mitkus. </p> <p>“No, Mitkus et al. (sec. 2.4) used the ATSDR Tox Profile 2008”</p> <p>The ATSDR gets its NOAEL number (26 mg/kg/day) from Golub 2001.</p> <p>if the 26 mg/kg/day NOAEL is wrong, then Mitkus is wrong. And 26 mg/kg/day is wrong. Its definitely NOT a NOAEL.</p> <p>“Prove it. Show your evidence here; I’m not going to your site.”</p> <p>Its based on a 2016 study from Alawdi et al showing neurotoxicity (behavioral changes and neuroinflammation) from a dosage of 3.4 mg/kg/day (17 mg/kg/day AlCl3).</p> <p>26/3.4 = 7.6. So, the Mitkus MRL is wrong by a factor of AT LEAST 7.6. I say at least because 3.4 mg/kg/day is not a NOAEL. Adverse effects were observed at this dosage.</p> <p>Here is the Alawdi study:: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/26897372/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/26897372/</a></p> <p>This article explains this stuff in detail (for people not scared by information they disagree with): <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/">http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/</a></p> <p>Alawdi is NOT the only study showing toxic effects at dosages less than 26 mg/kg/day. There are many others (I count 7-8 or so).</p> <p>“Ooooo the particles.”</p> <p>Yes the particles. They matter. Particles have different transport/kinetics properties and totally different mechanisms of toxicity.</p> <p>Here is a review paper on the subject:</p> <p>“Toxicity of Nanomaterials”</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703119/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703119/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359490&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jUs6FDkyvThoiYvstKv9Agbtvi_c2ncJoH_tnRdYGys"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359490">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359480#comment-1359480" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359481" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528642"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"“excessive microglial activation” is not indicative of brain injury."</p> <p>Oh yes it is. Microglial activation indicates ongoing neuroinflammation. Activated microglia cause all sorts of damage to the brain. </p> <p>There is PLENTY of science richly demonstrating the brain injury present in autism. its preposterous to say autism is not a brain injury. Just shows a complete ignorance of the literature. Not interested in debating this point.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359481&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S4uuJfQXy5e4WDhaMYrTNTs8JcN24kWgQHk2V4UQ2-Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359481">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359482" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528708"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP,</p> <p>How many papers do you have on your website?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359482&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3KYB7rbFF_tugvP8AeNO-h67b4k_dVlTGkqe-QKhoRY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359482">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359483" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528770"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"And no there are not “lots of studies on this.” Not surprised ignorant attention-whores like you just make things up though."</p> <p>So you are suggesting that there is not inflammation in the autistic brain? Really?</p> <p>Arguing this is utterly ridiculous. Im amazed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359483&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eaTv_Nx12yT-YVvz3KlGBz1XH3mTobu18j-AcVCWS4U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359483">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359484" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528797"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There are lots of other studies establishing inflammation&gt; autism causation. Like this study in monkeys.</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24011823">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24011823</a></p> <p>Epidemiological studies in humans also show that autism is caused by immune activation (inflammation).</p></blockquote> <p>And another example of the VP crank abusing studies about <i>maternal infection</i> to make the chasmic leap to vaccinesdidit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359484&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yloyG33z_GO5TVHFYC_8OvMGS3zW_hRwv61OtRp4WR4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359484">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359485" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495528945"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ANother paper on the chronic inflammation in the autistic brain:</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770268/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770268/</a></p> <p>Really, you guys need to stop arguing this point.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359485&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JvOPkcCxt6biqI-r8OOoLioIshVMs76H42uNrzENMLo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359485">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359486" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495529021"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>So you are suggesting that there is not inflammation in the autistic brain? Really?</p></blockquote> <p>Immune markers found in the brain tissue of a handful of autistics is not "inflammation in autistics' brains. Really.</p> <blockquote><p>Arguing this is utterly ridiculous. Im amazed.</p></blockquote> <p>It certainly is given your woeful ignorance of biology and study interpretation. Glad we agree on something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359486&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qi5AqxeXoysovr1Ou6wWioWP2RpFKUdjw0KsovfOpao"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359486">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359487" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495529030"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>""And another example of the VP crank abusing studies about maternal infection to make the chasmic leap to vaccinesdidit.</p> <p>Autism is brain injury caused by early life inflammation in the brain. And thats exactly what Al adjuvant does. </p> <p>Al adjuvant in fact stimulates the exact same type of immune activation (interleukin-6) proven to cause the disorder.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359487&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WQleaOYpAvOcgTvd-DUYbngSyhNXYj2HDstEgHsFKJw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359487">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359488" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495529100"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>So you are suggesting that there is not inflammation in the autistic brain? Really?</b></p> <p>I haven't said that, neither that the normal brain doesn't have any inflammation either. My point of contention is autism being brain damage. I provide the evidence to the contrary.</p> <p>So, how many papers do you have on your website^ and second question, is that an exhaustive search for paper?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359488&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PT27qnGvuLSl-exwMvWI_RShcFJfdchEnAlOR6rSL_A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359488">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359492" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530531"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There are so many pathologies in autism: inflammation, impaired methylation, oxidative stress, cogntiive impairments, immune dysfunction. And there are many associations with other disorders: autoimmunity and allergy are examples. </p> <p>Autistics also have higher mortality. We can agree this is pathological, right?<br /><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23008058">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23008058</a></p> <p>The scientific literature does not often specifically describe it as pathological, because it does not need to. Everyone knows that chronic inflammation is pathological. </p> <p>Orthodox medicine faces the blame for the epidemic of vaccine brain injury known as autism. Thats why they want to shift the blame to things like genes, and pretend like its not really a problem. Politics, not science, is driving opinions about autism in the medical community.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359492&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gS2FBczQYBk_e37n-gf3loBEcI_OOXxcYoRvT0vvx9M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359492">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359488#comment-1359488" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359489" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495529406"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"No, there is not “widespread, intense and chronic inflammation in the brains of autistic people.”"</p> <p>CITATION NEEDED. </p> <p>Every study ever done on this question has reported the same thing: widespread, intense and chronic inflammation in the autistic brain. </p> <p>And, a study of several dozen autistic brains is a good size study. Very difficult to obtain human autistic brain samples and analyze them. You are expecting/demanding a study of THOUSANDS of brains? Really? </p> <p>The Vargas 2005 study looked at dozens of cytokines and inflammatory markers in numerous brain regions separately, in controls and autistics. That study was a huge amount of work. </p> <p>Its not reasonable to demand such an impossibly high level of evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359489&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H5xfAl_CqIZ7yEFE5rjmjjOedU3OtiqccBLlyiUF-NE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359489">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359491" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530085"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Again, I'm confused why VP is wasting time on us "ignorant" folk &amp; not applying to the Nobel committee....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359491&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YiDJwdGNie-K2HsYIdz3XzPaBdyyaVFtTTubwqhArkg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359491">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359493" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP,</p> <p>Again, how many papers do you have on your website? And also, is that an exhaustive search for papers?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359493&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gMZ3DDhVJIzc6_S-KsaiZm56b6bWvh4N3Lw-Q2bRa-g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359493">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359494" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530675"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"And also, is that an exhaustive search for papers?"</p> <p>I dont understand this question.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359494&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W0QnDo70UIo_3jAUB3slizHDysCbXNB3C_3hWdRaY10"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359494">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359495" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530720"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers, </p> <p>You responded to DB's citation of a study that suggested that lesions in the brains of people with autism arose early in gestation by stating that "cortical layers continue to form postnatally." Uh huh. </p> <p>In response to a citation of work that involved the comparison of whole exome sequencing data from over 80,000 individuals, you indicated that you don't like twin studies. Got it. </p> <p>You're just embarrassing yourself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359495&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GjhTORGdrWkDkPpaVcFjraTIaI4r7PmpzOrzpnC6v5U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359495">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359497" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530992"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thats an insult, not an argument.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359497&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YfGjCVKX2DQZH06rTb2I76tP14D1vRdwhs5GTqGmn7w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359497">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359495#comment-1359495" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359496" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495530934"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"And that rhesus monkey study you mention had 13 subjects and 11 controls. “Underpowered” doesn’t even begin to cover it."</p> <p>Thats a decent size for a monkey study, which are very expensive to do. </p> <p>The results were highly statistically significant, which is what counts.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359496&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hehvaWwHxf_HaFK_x5KxVG3xj-mwmZqr4WLQNTwQXok"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359496">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359498" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531158"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"In response to a citation of work that involved the comparison of whole exome sequencing data from over 80,000 individuals, you indicated that you don’t like twin studies. "</p> <p>The claims of high heritability are based on the twin studies, not the genome sequencing studies, because genome sequencing has failed to provide evidence that its highly heritable. There are hundreds of genes associated with autism, most with weak association. That indicates its NOT a genetic disorder. Its a gene-environment interaction.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359498&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TDCMaloOVHAopIlU_-v4Q4CsHtwCuVI2yobAAE9RKro"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359498">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359499" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531164"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Not to tooth my horn but I also wonder why VP isn't inclined to read only 128 papers of my own choosing while, in my case, from our publication, there is this text:</p> <p><i>Of over 7000 articles retrieved, 58 (19 PET and 39 fMRI) satisfied all inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis</i></p> <p>Source: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21833294">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21833294</a> and <a href="http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2010.00241/full">http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2010.00241/full</a></p> <p>Of which, I personally read over 2000 of them at a rate of 50 per day ;) While attending my undergrad study...and doing my usual daily chores.</p> <p>That said, I'm perusing the list of 128 article I provided to VP to trim that down to a readable list...if only VP would give me the number of publication for his / her evidence that autism is brain damage...Will I be waiting? :)</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359499&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Nlrd8647I8gtsANQH7ZP76b6P_Mk4D1GfkDMv8L4G0Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359499">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359502" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531382"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Papers on the VP website are contextualized and explained. They are not merely listed without explanation, as you have done.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359502&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kyHH9aJbsKvvOo8ox4j-QuOHisl5Mb7Raxy3rqkX2uY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359502">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359499#comment-1359499" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359501" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531376"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP,</p> <p>To answer your question, for our paper, we did an exhaustive search for papers (which in our case, was over 7000 papers needing screening and assessment). I want to know if the list of papers on your website is as complete as possible and how many there is? Your website doesn't specify the number of papers you have there. I want a number.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359501&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RcoMnXDYnbOTStbjglDxX3Q1mns0BOP56EYVEwIMddM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359501">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359503" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531444"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You are free to go count them. I havent done that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359503&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OebskhhzHBmpL1sDPt9xdbUOy4uzyE355YCT3LQRIAY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359503">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359501#comment-1359501" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359504" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531674"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p># 167 Dr. Corcos,<br /> "Is there any randomized trial of delaying vaccines in high risk babies?"</p> <p>What is considered "high risk" in this case?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359504&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gaeKmx28DCXxyWl2eIhQ0cKAef3ZmA29iPVwEu9DeP8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359504">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359505" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495531859"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>You are free to go count them. I havent done that.</b></p> <p>oooohhhh....Now that doesn't support your argument that there is massive evidence of brain damage if you are not even able to count the number of papers on your website which is the bare minimum task to do if one want to be considered a scientist. Did you even read them?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359505&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rb28nOMWhnvsSaOyYlr6rqjPSm_16Apvr5BZUGKBggk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359505">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359506" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495532016"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Again, how many papers do you have on your website?</p></blockquote> <p>I'm sure that curl or wget would be more than happy to provide you with the answer to that. More interesting to me is how many of them are pirated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359506&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eVkLDhHHt26mMEyj8GocoHXyIXipdCuxBDmeeMc7go8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359506">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359507" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495532319"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad,</p> <p>Sure I can and will do that but I wanted to verify his / her assertion that there are massive evidence of brain damage.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359507&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oaQbriHOY4NvG_EeBmzQ83QUvMxyVboq7xPZNXBjT6k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359507">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359508" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495532488"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here is a suggestion: you should engage with my evidence and arguments. Explain why my arguments are wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359508&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2bvhETW_8oltvLWkWufobG82SN5IFV5t9VSTyNNvCCo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359508">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359509" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495532604"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Explain why this causal chain is wrong:</p> <p>Al adjuvant injection &gt; transport to brain &gt; inflammation in brain &gt; autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359509&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fhvdp92IVzlyBF3Uug85w-bnczQsUaUR4mgnCPAlSDA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359509">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359510" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495533010"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Again, why are you wasting time trying to convince us of your hypothesis?</p> <p>Why aren't you accepting a Nobel Prize as we speak, since you've got it all figured out?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359510&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M7JvT0x4uETsHXCJNRRdkZGNdhs049HrsLCh78JHYdI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359510">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359511" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495533143"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ok,</p> <p>I will mention it again, the enhanced perceptual functioning and associated hypothesis (Markram et al. at least but there are other) goes against your hypothesis that autism is a result of brain damage. Furthermore, IQ range of autistic peoples goes from mental disability range (not testable) to over 150 IQ point score (98th percentile on the RSPM) which argue against brain damages.</p> <p>Of course, there can be inflammation in autistic brain but that can be present in the normal brain too (fever among others), that is not, automatically brain damages. Furthermore, there is evidence from, at a minimum, the lab I was working in of excellent memory (we also studied autistic savants for which, the epidemiology is 1/5 autistic subjects having savants abilities compared to the general population rate of 1%).</p> <p>Which again, goes against brain damage. Yes, autism is a pathology (a social one and sometime, a language one) but that doesn't mean brain damage.</p> <p>You get it?</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359511&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ScnVg09SySDrMFozna-rEh5Wi1l4UvDb0aZq201-SnM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359511">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359512" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495533280"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While VP insists that "every" study on the question reveals that there's widespread chronic inflammation in the brains of those with autism, VP ignores that such inflammation to some extent may be the _consequence_ and not the cause of autism.</p> <p><a href="https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-suggests-brain-inflammation-hallmark-autism">https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-suggests-brain-…</a></p> <p>If we accept the idea that inflammation causes autism, then VP will have to continue doing a dance around evidence that autism begins during gestation and inflammatory changes in utero could have a causative role.</p> <p>"Autism likely begins in the womb, during brain formation, and animal studies indicate that layer formation in the fetal brain may be damaged by inflammation in the mother. A study published in February 2014 followed 1.2 million pregnancies in Finland. Researchers measured the women's levels of C-reactive protein (CRP), a well-established measure of inflammation. They found that the risk of autism in the children of women with the highest levels of CRP was 43 percent higher than in those of the women with the lowest levels."</p> <p>"Other studies have begun to show that mothers who have certain pro-inflammatory conditions are at greater risk of having children with autism—these conditions include rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, celiac disease, diabetes, and obesity. Women with autoimmune diseases are more likely to produce "antibrain antibodies," which can attack the brain tissue of a fetus. Women who have an infection during pregnancy may also be at increased risk of having children with autism.<br /> These studies suggest that measuring inflammation in pregnant women may help identify those children most at risk for developing an ASD and help get them early intervention."</p> <p><a href="http://www.healthline.com/health-news/connection-between-inflammation-and-autism-052214">http://www.healthline.com/health-news/connection-between-inflammation-a…</a></p> <p>Note that last part about infection-associated risks. VP would have you believe that minute quantities of aluminum-based adjuvant or other Vaccine Toxins are grievously harmful to developing brains, but somehow serious infections with their raft of actual toxins causing release of large amounts of cytokines are inconsequential.</p> <p>In a way, it's amusing to see so many fallacies dressed up in pseudoscientific jargon in defense of antivax ideology. </p> <p>But it's also depressing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359512&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-5gmaFiLsPZzPhtWsXjgQSquPriOyeB7bOKuepx8cL8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359512">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359553" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495552346"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I want to reemphasize your later point - that if inflammation was the issue, the diseases would be the concern, not the tiny amounts of aluminum salts in vaccines. VP suggested earlier that measles does not cause inflammation in the brain - which is strange in a disease for which one of the complications is encephalitis, in about 1:1000. Mumps can also cause encephalitis, and other diseases also have such effects. So if the issue was inflammation, why are the vaccines the culprit and not the solution?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359553&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pHRlSxs41Lqkm_yFPkzNy7xBiIrPPrjIW0aqvA_qbLg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359553">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359512#comment-1359512" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359559" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495559190"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>" Researchers measured the women’s levels of C-reactive protein (CRP), a well-established measure of inflammation. They found that the risk of autism in the children of women with the highest levels of CRP was 43 percent higher than in those of the women with the lowest levels.”"</p> <p>Elevated inflammation during gestation creates higher risk of injury from inflammation from vaccines. Its the "two-hit" model. First hit does not cause great damage, but creates vulnerability to a second hit. The second hit (vaccines) causes the injury. </p> <p>"VP would have you believe that minute quantities of aluminum-based adjuvant or other Vaccine Toxins are grievously harmful to developing brains, but somehow serious infections with their raft of actual toxins causing release of large amounts of cytokines are inconsequential."</p> <p>The quantities are not minute. They are proven to cause life-long debilitating brain injury and inflammation in the brain, at vaccine dosages. Al adjuvant causes long term chronic inflammation in the brain, because it puts aluminum in the brain. Normal infectious illnesses do not do this. They cause transient inflammation, not necessarily in the brain.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359559&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qVTt7wB_9DJtYdxlh6MQAWGQjO7EPyndNrEhgtaQuPg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359559">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359512#comment-1359512" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359513" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495533746"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Of course he doesn't.</p> <p>Because he's talking about a "brain damage" which is so specific that this "inflammation" cannot be replicated by anything other than aluminum salts adjuvants.</p> <p>Which leads me back to the question of why we find autistic children (and adults) who are entirely unvaccinated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359513&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j6v9-vS50KqeqHYHTZIbOVAJR7E0E7ERTFbXSHmYoDk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359513">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359514" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495533920"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Al adjuvant injection &gt; transport to brain &gt; <b>inflammation in brain</b> &gt; autism.</p> <p>The part in bold: inflammation in brain, does not always lead to autism. This is a non-specific finding which can present in every brain on this planet leading to different results or pathology, <b>if any (pathology that is) is present</b>.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359514&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p-2SzdxcG7jVd_HUlXwI8lP3Z3CWCq2UtTvWKKVCxPk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359514">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359518" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495535211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Of course, there can be inflammation in autistic brain but that can be present in the normal brain too (fever among others), that is not, automatically brain damages. Furthermore, there is evidence from, at a minimum, the lab I was working in of excellent memory (we also studied autistic savants for which, the epidemiology is 1/5 autistic subjects having savants abilities compared to the general population rate of 1%).</p> <p>Which again, goes against brain damage. Yes, autism is a pathology (a social one and sometime, a language one) but that doesn’t mean brain damage.</p> <p>You get it?"</p> <p>yes I get it. Thank you for explaining. </p> <p>Yes inflammation must be intense and/or long enough to cause injury. </p> <p>Autism is associated with intelligence genes. So, association with some types of improved cognitive function does not establish its not injury. We dont know what the cognitive function would be like in these individuals if they were not autistic. </p> <p>As I mentioned, there are MANY reasons why autism is an injury-the inflammation, missing purkinje cells and associations with diseases. We know some of the causes, like early life infections and toxin exposures, and they are definitely not beneficial or benign.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359518&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xpCWGl5dfeq4DCn2hWy3huc0PckDv6ktHEAAAckSGmY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359518">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359514#comment-1359514" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359521" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495535596"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>See the literature on immune activation and autism. Experiments in animals prove causation, i.e. the link:</p> <p>inflammation 9IL-6) &gt;&gt; autism. </p> <p>example:</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22310922">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22310922</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359521&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="25M-OIpb3521LE9ErX7O58CnKcDwbmF_Bhy8QVXp85I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359521">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359514#comment-1359514" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359515" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495534000"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lawrence,</p> <p>Agreed. Time for me to go to work.</p> <p>Later ;)</p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359515&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gAvnHX2aAL_g508XplGwd7p-ikPZaa84qQMdrL3NblA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359515">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359516" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495534473"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>It's a gene-environment interaction.</p></blockquote> <p>Remarkably, recent evidence suggests that gene-environmental interaction at very early periods of fetal brain development produce ASD-related phenotypes. This has nothing to do with postnatal administration of adjuvanted vaccines. </p> <p>Atladottir HO, Thorsen P, Ostergaard L, Schendel DE, Lemcke S, Abdallah M et al. Maternal infection requiring hospitalization during pregnancy and autism spectrum disorders. J Autism Dev Disord 2010; 40(12): 1423-1430.</p> <p>Baron-Cohen S, Auyeung B, Norgaard-Pedersen B, Hougaard DM, Abdallah MW, Melgaard L et al. Elevated fetal steroidogenic activity in autism. Molecular psychiatry 2015; 20(3): 369-376.</p> <p>Birnbaum R, Jaffe AE, Hyde TM, Kleinman JE, Weinberger DR. Prenatal expression patterns of genes associated with neuropsychiatric disorders. The American journal of psychiatry 2014; 171(7): 758-767.</p> <p>Brimberg L, Sadiq A, Gregersen PK, Diamond B. Brain-reactive IgG correlates with autoimmunity in mothers of a child with an autism spectrum disorder. Molecular psychiatry 2013; 18(11): 1171-1177.</p> <p>Courchesne E, Mouton PR, Calhoun ME, Semendeferi K, Ahrens-Barbeau C, Hallet MJ et al. Neuron number and size in prefrontal cortex of children with autism. JAMA : the journal of the American Medical Association 2011; 306(18): 2001-2010.</p> <p>Jiang HY, Xu LL, Shao L, Xia RM, Yu ZH, Ling ZX et al. Maternal Infection during Pregnancy and Risk of Autism Spectrum Disorders: A Systematic Review and Meta analysis. Brain Behav Immun 2016.</p> <p>Lee BK, Magnusson C, Gardner RM, Blomstrom A, Newschaffer CJ, Burstyn I et al. Maternal hospitalization with infection during pregnancy and risk of autism spectrum disorders. Brain Behav Immun 2015; 44: 100-105.</p> <p>Lombardo, MV, Moon, HM, Su, J, Palmer, TD, Courchesne, E, Pramparo T. Maternal immune activation dysregulation of the fetal brain transcriptome and relevance to the pathophysiology of autism spectrum disorder. Molecular Psychiatry advance online publication 21 March 2017; doi: 10.1038/mp.2017.15</p> <p>Parikshak NN, Luo R, Zhang A, Won H, Lowe JK, Chandran V et al. Integrative functional genomic analyses implicate specific molecular pathways and circuits in autism. Cell 2013; 155(5): 1008-1021.</p> <p>Stoner R, Chow ML, Boyle MP, Sunkin SM, Mouton PR, Roy S et al. Patches of disorganization in the neocortex of children with autism. N Engl J Med 2014; 370(13): 1209-1219.</p> <p>Willsey AJ, Sanders SJ, Li M, Dong S, Tebbenkamp AT, Muhle RA et al. Coexpression networks implicate human midfetal deep cortical projection neurons in the pathogenesis of autism. Cell 2013; 155(5): 997-1007.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359516&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ysH0buRclCY8_D-VF83UVacDtmsgh2b0_UsVwbuNtHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359516">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359517" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495534535"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><blockquote>If they’re so toxic, why don’t they kill the macrophages before they magically arrive at the brain to deliver their sinister payload?</blockquote> <p>Good question. Its likely because the Al adjuvant particles are present inside the macrophage lysosomes, which can be considered to be outside the macrophage.</p></blockquote> <p>Do you even know what a lysosome <i>is?</i></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359517&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Fg9qtLa6_gZUYacooWInKgeSC7eooPdxf7fWUalox14"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359517">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359519" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495535306"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>""Because he’s talking about a “brain damage” which is so specific that this “inflammation” cannot be replicated by anything other than aluminum salts adjuvants.</p> <p>Which leads me back to the question of why we find autistic children (and adults) who are entirely unvaccinated.</p> <p>Anything that causes the right type of inflammation in the brain, of sufficient duration and/or intensity, can cause autism. Infections can cause autism, because infections can cause inflammation in the brain.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359519&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Dt3d5z1hnt9dZXLZwnJGU4JwLfx_G_AWbS7U1d-PWDc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359519">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359520" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495535472"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Remarkably, recent evidence suggests that gene-environmental interaction at very early periods of fetal brain development produce ASD-related phenotypes. This has nothing to do with postnatal administration of adjuvanted vaccines."</p> <p>The injury can occur prenatally or postnatally. </p> <p>There is nothing in your cited papers that indicates the injury can occur only in the prenatal period. </p> <p>The human brain has intense development after birth, including the formation of most synapses. Synapse formation is known to be disrupted in autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359520&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FDvpm1lffpNFEMwrpYrNOj-ym1m3CO6KB5znrLPMwaI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359520">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359522" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495536271"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"There is nothing in your cited papers that indicates the injury can occur only in the prenatal period."</p> <p>Remarkably, prenatal development can explain postnatal phenotypes, but postnatal exposure to adjuvants cannot explain observed ASD-related changes during fetal development.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359522&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6LdE8XrqV6gruxulvxRv-LvmDOY6mC5aWuq-99Cjkio"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359522">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359523" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495536914"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"but postnatal exposure to adjuvants cannot explain observed ASD-related changes during fetal development."</p> <p>Actually they can, because your evidence is mere correlation. </p> <p>Differences observed in the prenatal period are simply indicators of vulnerability to vaccine injury. </p> <p>Specifically, this vulnerability can be caused by things like nutrient deficiency (e.g. vitamin D deficiency) or genetic tendency to high inflammation or autoimmunity (which would create vulnerability to vaccination).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359523&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4JWO5Dsuhb96pj_rFbqZ2J2F2nQ0Kfl8g3xi9EHc8wc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359523">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359522#comment-1359522" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359524" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495538511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Autism is brain injury caused by early life inflammation in the brain. And thats exactly what Al adjuvant does.</p> <p>Al adjuvant in fact stimulates the exact same type of immune activation (interleukin-6) proven to cause the disorder.</p></blockquote> <p>No it doesn't and your hand-waving isn't a substitute for evidence. As usual the VP crank starts off with his aluminium fixation, can't answer rebuttal nor provide evidence to support his claims then moves on to his other obsession, IL-6. Tell me VP crank, what is the order of tissue deposition for aluminium?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359524&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PDb5l_OZRNSH5tlMGout_n7CuwAoOfNzusbrH_IkaXE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359524">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359525" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495540246"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You should read my arguments, including articles on the VP blog, before commenting. </p> <p>Lots of scientific evidence supports the IL-6 &gt; autism connection. </p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23994594">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23994594</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359525&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZrZb8aQN5nlEOWs2qOXIUrMYQ_AQqObyRscLu04eI0E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359525">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359524#comment-1359524" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359526" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495540416"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Thats a decent size for a monkey study, which are very expensive to do.<br /> The results were highly statistically significant, which is what counts.</p></blockquote> <p>That study had 11 controls and 13 subjects. There is no way on Earth it was statistically significant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359526&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kPEEPCcqny8sdUip4jWwNU1BFAxBPfcij2IeOqoEXm0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359526">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359528" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495540858"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Summary of the results. Several results had P&lt;0.01. </p> <p>(A) Maternal immune activation (MIA) off- spring exhibit increased frequency of motor stereotypies and self-directed behaviors. Left panel: When observed alone in a large cage at 10 months of age, second trimester MIA (MIA2) animals produce significantly more repetitive behaviors than control animals (CON) (**p # .01). The first trimester MIA (MIA1) offspring also produce more repetitive behaviors than control animals, but this difference does not reach statistical significance at 10 months (p 1⁄4 .06). Middle panel: When observed alone at 22 months of age, MIA1 offspring produce significantly more repetitive behaviors (*p # .05). Second trimester MIA animals also produce significantly more repetitive behaviors than control animals at 22 months (**p # .01). Right panel: When tested at 17 months of age in the Y- maze social preference assay, MIA2 treatment animals produce significantly more repetitive behaviors than control animals (**p # .01). (B) Maternal immune activation offspring display decreased affiliative vocaliza- tions. Left panel: At 22 months, MIA2 offspring produce significantly fewer coo calls than control animals (**p .01). Right panel: When observed with a novel conspe- cific at 24 months of age, MIA1 offspring produce significantly fewer coo calls than control animals (*p # .05). (C) Maternal immune activation offspring exhibit inappropriate interactions with unfamiliar conspecifics. Left panel: First trimester MIA offspring demonstrate inappropriate social interactions with an unfamiliar animal, as indexed by high frequency of approaching (*p 0.05) and more frequently moving within arm’s reach of the unfamiliar animal (**p .01). Right panel: First trimester MIA offspring remained near the unfami- liar animal, as indexed by the duration of time spent in physical contact or within arm’s reach of the unfamiliar animal (*p .05).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359528&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j-wo55C31H4gaR7vySewVPzxSamqnlKm4PyjTMkSLhM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359528">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359526#comment-1359526" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359527" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495540851"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“And that rhesus monkey study you mention had 13 subjects and 11 controls. “Underpowered” doesn’t even begin to cover it.”</p> <p>Thats a decent size for a monkey study, which are very expensive to do.</p> <p>The results were highly statistically significant, <b>which is what counts</b>.</p></blockquote> <p>You're really not clear on this concept, are you?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359527&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fi7AKZG5OQUtqHUcWWMscCNDiyItFPyFMlr4d-m-zrY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359527">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359529" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495541796"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>By the way, most of the Papers you list use the words "suggest" "may" and "might".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359529&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P7iaUbTSi5DuBRp7UlgJNQnvYiVgo4MTrX8G5bJMRJ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359529">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359530" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495542474"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Such language is common in scientific literature, which is typically written with an (over) abundance of caution. What matters most is the data presented, not the opinions of the authors. The Wei IL-6 paper reviews strong evidence proving that IL-6 causes autism in animal models. Its proven beyond any reasonable doubt, at least in the animal models. </p> <p>Also see this (IL-6 induces IL-17, so this paper is another replication of the IL-6 results):</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822608">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822608</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359530&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Kx_jQHBEq7ukNN6VCxHGs9J-7lVSKF4FYA0fombMj0A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359530">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359529#comment-1359529" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359531" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495543092"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If I resume that correctly:</p> <p>Autism is brain damage caused by 9IL6 which is a causative agent even in autistic people having an IQ off the chart for which if there where no vaccines given and no injuries to the brain, autistic people would have even greater IQ. Everything else is correlational.</p> <p>I think there's lots of assumptions in there but I'll leave it to the regulars because of work and commenting on a phone is awful.</p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359531&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="09PpekddC7j5QTyKI1DJ0VQ_V_3rmUpvhpv7YYSLdLY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359531">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359532" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495543960"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"autism in animals" model?</p> <p>So, via the current DSM, what should autism in a Rat look like?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359532&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ok9bTANQIxOo3oIJDM8AB1Qtb1DpLfVqdndLgl1VRsc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359532">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359533" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495544266"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>abnormal social and communicative behavior, and repetitive behavior. Also, damage to purkinje cells and cerebellum. Successful animal model replications have been done in monkeys, which are obviously more human-like. The animal models are excellent models of human disease, since immune activation (infection) also causes autism in humans, and they produce the same physiological damage and behaviors. Also, the same drugs and brain inflammation is observed. The animal models match human autism in every way thats been tested. The validity of the immune activation animal models is accepted, by consensus.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359533&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="t1oICN4NyOqz9HFgigXKEfcKwnZ5RkOorUqnLkTzIy4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359533">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359532#comment-1359532" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359536" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495544574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A recent quote from a well known autism researcher:</p> <p>“These MIA (maternal immune activation) animal models meet all of the criteria required for validity for a disease model: They mimic a known disease-related risk factor (construct validity), they exhibit a wide range of disease-related symptoms (face validity), and they can be used to predict the efficacy of treatments (predictive validity).”<br /> –Dr Kimberley McAllister, UC Davis MIND Institute, Science, August 2016 (i.e. this paper: <a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6301/772">http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6301/772</a> )</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359536&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="InkT7j4IgXua5JXZBDfiR5orFjiXU3UKwSGdHLCUmnc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359536">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359532#comment-1359532" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359534" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495544298"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Differences observed in the prenatal period are simply indicators of vulnerability to vaccine injury.</p></blockquote> <p>Uh huh. So here are some fetal neurodevelopmental "indicators of vulnerability to vaccine injury":</p> <p>Blurring of the gray/white matter junction as the result of a migratory defect where cells that should move to the cerebral cortex get stuck in the subplate region.</p> <p>Corpus callosum abnormalities that indicate axonal guidance defects related to abnormalities of neuronal migration, e.g., heterotopias, an increase in subpial neurons, and cortical malformations. </p> <p>Disorganization of minicolumns, the units of the basic architecture of the brain.</p> <p>Reduction of the number of interneurons along with abnormal migration of radially migrating neuroblasts as a result of mistiming of migration.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359534&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="is6P2INWJuzZuylH5LSbs4BSbuER93io4psUoABY9k4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359534">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359535" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495544454"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You dont have evidence that those defects are present prenatally. Thats ASSUMED.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359535&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jMIFxfUdmocRx_QaTNTOFuiAn0bN9Oq-9hP0s1qK6Ls"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359535">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359534#comment-1359534" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359537" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495544619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><blockquote>Differences observed in the prenatal period are simply indicators of vulnerability to vaccine injury.</blockquote> <p>Uh huh.</p></blockquote> <p>"Begging the question" appears to be something else that has failed to sink into Dan's cranium.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359537&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="khvZak42btL1B-78G2stfcSv8bOPE1eJLFzNeYkSU9A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359537">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359538" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495544803"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Autism is a "spectrum" which ranges from very severe to high functioning.....so pray tell, how can you use these "animal models" that you put so much faith in, to relate back to a single vaccine ingredient?</p> <p>I ask the question, knowing that you really can't answer it.</p> <p>Again, if you're so sure, why aren't you receiving your Nobel Prize?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359538&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GSApz-5yVfV2wpHrcnJ841ktsB_5F_RSVtvK7IweaMo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359538">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359540" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545199"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"how can you use these “animal models” that you put so much faith in, to relate back to a single vaccine ingredient?"</p> <p>The connection is IL-6. </p> <p>IL-6 causes the injury in the animal models, and aluminum adjuvant induces IL-6 in the brain. </p> <p>Al adjuvant &gt; IL-6 in brain &gt; autism</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359540&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iej4HvKuvCMEfY1UTfpGgQWR-ZlsbImldd97lZujbLY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359540">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359538#comment-1359538" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359539" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545033"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You should read my arguments, including articles on the VP blog, before commenting.</p></blockquote> <p>I've read some of your block. You're a hack and obviously out of your depth.</p> <blockquote><p>Lots of scientific evidence supports the IL-6 &gt; autism connection.</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23994594">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23994594</a></p></blockquote> <p>Something something opinion piece and nothing to do with vaccines as usual.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359539&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RX50F-cTcAhhPFqicdf2NMtuQFZ4k_U75syzqWTZGFY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359539">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359541" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545287"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You guys are supposed to have mountains of evidence that vaccines do not cause autism, right? How come I have not seen any such evidence with regard to aluminum adjuvant?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359541&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WA3Ymu6O2DUff_txb7xMYCpYxa5gDtTUCv3oU6Zg_jI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359541">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359542" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>What matters most is the data presented, <b>not the opinions of the authors.</b></p></blockquote> <p>This was a howler. Data <i>pl.</i> numpty and the <i>interpretation</i> of the data by the authors who know a helluva lot more on the subject than you do matters, not your free-wheeling associations and lack of intellectual integrity.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359542&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pYsEoZ9WesazvIjRQ39wqHkAkSbayQACZoOV2QpW9Xg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359542">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359544" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>They argue that IL-6 causes autism.<br /> quotes:</p> <p>"All these evidences suggest that brain IL-6 may play an important role in the development of autism."</p> <p>"IL-6 elevation in the brain, caused by the activated glia and/or MIA could mediate autism- like behaviors, through impairments of neuroanatomical structures and neuronal plasticity"</p> <p>"Wei et al. developed a mouse model of over-expressing IL-6 in the brain with an adenoviral gene delivery approach and confirmed that IL-6 is an important mediator of autism-like behaviors. This study found that mice with an elevated IL-6 level in the brain developed autism-like behaviors (Wei et al., 2012a). These findings suggest that IL-6 elevation in the brain could modulate certain pathological alterations and contribute to the development of autism."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359544&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X2iZSIFlE8uXVe_Em2dpi6lism-xNs6ztq9UxOy9eHk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359544">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359542#comment-1359542" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359543" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545482"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>IL-6 causes the injury in the animal models, and aluminum adjuvant induces IL-6 in the brain.</p> <p>Al adjuvant &gt; IL-6 in brain &gt; autism</p></blockquote> <p>If there is no animal model for autism, you haven't established vaccines induce IL-6 in the brain to produce pathology and that pathology is autism, then how can you possibly expect not to be laughed at.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359543&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wkmjiCdWULQeYZYF1oi3W8MLTZCBpVfCU-eav40T7us"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359543">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359545" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is an excellent animal model of autism: immune activation exposure during early development. </p> <p>Several studies show al adjuvant induces long term inflammation in the brain and pathology, and there is some evidence now that it induces IL-6 in the brain. Several studies show Al induces IL-6. </p> <p><a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/aluminum-inflammation-interleukin-6/">http://vaccinepapers.org/aluminum-inflammation-interleukin-6/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359545&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JsoTV8IvaJQFHlkJs4f3Az37Sluxrvb0g-XK5waZfDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359545">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359543#comment-1359543" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359546" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545814"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh and still waiting for VP crank to list the order of tissue deposition for aluminium since he's such an expert on the subject.</p> <p>Well Dan, when you going to get around to that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359546&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="00mdkoPutntEmAlCyKsIrPm_ikCSUnUBos2Xq6PbDVc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359546">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359547" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545946"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There is an excellent animal model of autism: immune activation exposure during early development.</p></blockquote> <p>Well what is it? There is no animal model of autism and I'm not going to your blog, you can cough your evidence up here. I'm not doing your job for you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359547&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="F5oOeYu9Oj_fOTZw5Cj55-ZYusq9Hr2a4o4u01BJv3I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359547">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359548" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495545955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Because he can't....guess he's too busy writing up his Nobel submission, right?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359548&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cd_EWpll-Lqcsy1XBPqo4gwCS6BXZiyP34yPzEfX6-c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359548">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359549" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495546007"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Several results had P&lt;0.01.</p></blockquote> <p>So?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359549&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QNMfYq-RhlGFtUDEw6ixp-C5Ubyr1mxVDme-WAgC56c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359549">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359550" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495546288"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The connection is IL-6.</p></blockquote> <p>And <a href="http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3">G-d = $latex G_{uv}$</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359550&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d5lv5vOqY075gY8RhAzZCWjTCPMbNAJfdOhUyevGvlE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359550">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359551" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495546586"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ "[<i>sic</i>]" for the subs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359551&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DHF5voxMZFkZxfpD0q7ZS8aGK2uIspfrEcYR2Y2k8Yo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359551">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359552" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495548010"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There is an excellent animal model of autism: immune activation exposure during early development.</p></blockquote> <p>"Model." You keep using that word, etc.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359552&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9DCTFWMhpuifuuNP7nmFTtWOKPb_pscFpBIbcQvfxbY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359552">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359554" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495553855"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP: "Autism does not begin in utero."<br /> VP: "The injury can occur prenatally or postnatally."</p> <p>I detect a subtle lack of consistency here. :) </p> <p>Of course, we're dealing with someone who's convinced of "strengths" in the Mawson article, while being incapable of understanding how its conclusions are disqualified by its multiple fatal flaws. When it comes to critical thinking skills, lack of consistency is the least of VP's problems.</p> <p>Of course, this post will be dismissed as "snark" that doesn't address The Science - which I and others have discussed at length, only to be met with denial, Gish galloping to other misunderstood and/or irrelevant publications, and admonitions to read VP's blog, where all will be revealed..</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359554&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XcxUf0bghIrfPCdfL1QDhaR6nea6AiDh8-JONTvWKyE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359554">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359565" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495576570"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Correction: Autism usually is not caused in utero, but the conditions that create vaccine vulnerability may begin in utero, though these conditions will not cause autism on their own.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359565&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ssOyGiD_GNfJ-EyBVwQURSnad59EMtQJ6Fim360Z4rY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359565">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359554#comment-1359554" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359555" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495554023"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Going back to VP's thing about aluminum. First VP says that Al (injected intramuscularly) can't be excreted, that it is stuck in the muscle.<br /> Then VP says that Al moves to the brain.<br /> Well, which is it? AL is stuck in the muscle forever, or Al can move through the body?</p> <p>You can't have it both ways.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359555&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YzZOFA15ZVPnnc-5JsWnU7Tu_TttbD5wQdy6UjnJyHI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359555">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359564" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495576435"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Never said it was stuck in the muscle. I said it was stuck in the BODY. The particles dont dissolve and they cannot be excreted by the kidneys. </p> <p>Some of it travels into the brain. In the mouse experiments with 200mcg/kg, about 1.3% traveled to the brain, which was enough to cause long term brain inflammation and brain injury. </p> <p>Its carried into the brain by macrophages. Thats explained here: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/vaccine-aluminum-travels-to-the-brain/">http://vaccinepapers.org/vaccine-aluminum-travels-to-the-brain/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359564&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rY5YG6_OrsYZMF583FbL-V9DFY3wYGRGYi8QLrE-nMw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359564">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359555#comment-1359555" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359556" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495555126"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There is an excellent animal model of autism: immune activation exposure during early development.</p></blockquote> <p>How does altered gene expression during fetal development suggest that macrophages carrying postnatally-delivered, vaccine-derived particles of aluminum across the blood-brain barrier cause ASD?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359556&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hzTLk2PxAzC1lBsL3qScLOS-QIR0-myVaFWYNX3B3qc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359556">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359557" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495555174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccine Papers:</p> <blockquote><p>There is an excellent animal model of autism: immune activation exposure during early development. </p></blockquote> <p>Um, are you unclear what "model of autism" means? Because you just said that the animal model of autism is the thing you claim <i>causes<i></i> autism.</i></p> <p>We're not asking what you claim causes autism. We're asking how you know these animals <i>have</i> autism at all (or something similar enough to count). Merely possessing the thing you claim causes autism isn't enough, because you're trying* to test whether or not this thing causes autism.</p> <p>*Well, theoretically. I'm making the possibly unwarranted assumption that you possess some degree of intellectual honesty.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359557&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Yn6qNbyrc7Za4mui1-CChIdbZrQVWC78H8L7rGxyZEQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359557">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359562" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495576183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Same behaviors. Same physiological damage. Same treatments are effective as humans. Same causes as in humans. </p> <p>Thats a good animal model. </p> <p>“These MIA (maternal immune activation) animal models meet all of the criteria required for validity for a disease model: They mimic a known disease-related risk factor (construct validity), they exhibit a wide range of disease-related symptoms (face validity), and they can be used to predict the efficacy of treatments (predictive validity).”<br /> –Dr Kimberley McAllister, UC Davis MIND Institute, Science, August 2016 (i.e. this paper: <a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6301/772">http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6301/772</a> )</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359562&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q6RscpEnnN00G0xOvPP8SV6IMkDBhOanH7eVYuWHeN4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359562">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359557#comment-1359557" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359558" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495555405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You dont have evidence that those defects are present prenatally. Thats ASSUMED.</p></blockquote> <p>Those statements are based on decades of research in developmental biology. If you hope to contradict not only that evidence but the evidence from an entire field of biology, you need to do something more than wave your hands.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359558&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_KQSQjCWboA68bbSK00ogfWs4Unyxrzc7u_ptSxvUZg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359558">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359560" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495563290"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Let's see if I can not-b0rk the markup here:</p> <blockquote><p>[']Women with autoimmune diseases are more likely to produce “antibrain antibodies,” which can attack the brain tissue of a fetus.[']</p></blockquote> <p>&lt;stagmom&gt;<b>And are due to maternal vaccinations.</b>&lt;/stagmom&gt;</p> <blockquote><p>[']Women who have an infection during pregnancy may also be at increased risk of having children with autism.[']</p></blockquote> <p>"</p> <p>&lt;Dachelbot&gt;"Besides bad genes, experts like to associate the habits of mothers with the developmental of autism: old moms, young moms, fat moms, moms who have C-sections, drinking moms, smoking moms, moms who have babies too close together, moms who marry old dads, moms who live too close to freeways."&lt;/Dachelbot&gt;</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359560&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mEoDMjg24UcU7NyZxX-3fP10mQuoMkIwK9Hc5lWYLno"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359560">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359563" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495576293"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>All those things cause inflammation prenatally, which greatly increases vulnerability to vaccine injury. When there is already inflammation present, additional inflammation (from vaccine) is made more harmful.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359563&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MduXDDJ4o7GRwpE3L-7NZvAyiAcnzAk0GGoz8uM4BJk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359563">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359560#comment-1359560" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359561" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495575791"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“IL-6 elevation in the brain, caused by the activated glia and/or MIA could mediate autism- like behaviors, through impairments of neuroanatomical structures and neuronal plasticity”</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22caused+by+the+activated+glia%22">Oh, dear.</a> The odd thing is that this really only appears in the abstract* and pretty much identtically in the conclusion. Well, that, and the fact that the subject warranted a <i>six</i>-page review paper.</p> <p>How the VG thinks this glues <i>anything</i> together for his idée fixe beyond selective word associations is beyond me.</p> <p>* Apparently the only part of a <i>Neuroscience</i> paper that receives the otherwise conventional benefit of "hyphenation."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359561&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_8Nh_YpwVHbJ2gzvwwkWADDjWlLVkhOIfr7_pu-0UsY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359561">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359566" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495578201"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ <a href="https://vaccinepapers.org/wp-content/uploads/Brain-IL-6-and-autism.pdf">Dan's copy of Wei et al. (2013)</a> (PDF) came from LibGen,* just in case anybody was wondering whether he actually got off his ass and went to the library or anything before posting it.</p> <p>* XMP, honeybunch.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359566&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8MgLVvYh4kuhEFDu111WpFiLaHK1aZ5fYPagxhpuKO0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359566">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359568" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495578369"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So you prefer to attack me instead of attacking my evidence and arguments. </p> <p>I say thats because you dont now how to refute my arguments.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359568&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S9DAO4RLM1DEFDgCwqGD5lED_J_CtK5RaOwSywjwKC0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359568">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359566#comment-1359566" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359567" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495578341"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Autism usually is not caused in utero, but the conditions that create vaccine vulnerability may begin in utero, though these conditions will not cause autism on their own.</p></blockquote> <p>Ah, of course--and which vaccinated-unvaccinated studies--the studies that your fellow travelers claim have never been conducted--show this? Because vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359567&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VZV93kY5BxwGqq1sersJzvTHT6a4aMkcl33FQ9JTQIs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359567">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359569" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495578455"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>All those things cause inflammation prenatally, which greatly increases vulnerability to vaccine injury. When there is already inflammation present, additional inflammation (from vaccine) is made more harmful.</p></blockquote> <p>Was I talking to you, Dan? Mind your place.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359569&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OmcHHlq0xMSSb56ofx4vUKT4JfNfg44iN5Ho_dW4884"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359569">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359570" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495579440"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Slightly OT: looks like the VAXXED folks have pi$$ed off a Maori doctor.</p> <p><a href="https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-your-presence-here-cause-babies-die-dr-lance-osullivan-stuns-guests-anti-vax-doco-leaping-stage-explain-why-their-message-killer">https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-your-presence-here-ca…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359570&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YHw30kyH6WywlFRq1Lf6btrnddw5KD_tDKa7QLuYiMk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359570">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359571" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495579772"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ VP<br /> I don't think that your hypothesis is impossible. But before it is seriously considered, you should provide some evidence of the correlation between aluminium in vaccines or changes in the schedule of vaccines and the rise in autism incidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359571&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UTabbYJW_9GDc6IVVNOa41GJnJt0xqhZHOAEt9jD00A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359571">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359577" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495597244"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There are no epidemiological studies of Al adjuvant exposure and autism. There is zero human data. The MMR-autism studies dont count because MMR does not contain aluminum. No studies of autism look at Al adjuvant exposure. </p> <p>There is the Shaw ecological study, but being ecological, it doesnt mean much. Its useful for hypothesis generation only. </p> <p>The animal studies on autism and Al adjuvant are convergent and strongly indicate that Al adjuvant is a serious safety hazard. Animals suffer brain injury and inflammation from the same dosages given to human infants.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359577&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NKjLxAklMzAjz6s_OZ9JJ9XzxmQZHp3HWsaV6H5dS6U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359577">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359571#comment-1359571" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359572" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495579852"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Dorit reiss"VP suggested earlier that measles does not cause inflammation in the brain – which is strange in a disease for which one of the complications is encephalitis, in about 1:1000. Mumps can also cause encephalitis, and other diseases also have such effects. So if the issue was inflammation, why are the vaccines the culprit and not the solution?"</p> <p>I never stated that measles does not ever cause inflammation in the brain. it definitely can. But your risk of 1:1000 is overstated. That may be the risk for REPORTED cases, not total number of actual cases of measles.</p> <p>Vaccines are the culprit because of the aluminum adjuvant. it travels to the brain, which is extremely sensitive to low levels of aluminum. Vaccines contain far more than enough aluminum to cause brain injury. In the recent experiment with 200mcg/kg, about 1.3% traveled to the brain over 6 months, which was enough to cause brain injury and long term inflammation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359572&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Fl_wXY7uhKYIT73c9MVYZPyWtAMXc5eOIWJCo7MSrWc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359572">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359573" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495587887"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Slightly OT: looks like the VAXXED folks have pi$$ed off a Maori doctor.</i></p> <p>And Lo, there was a mighty butt-hurt across the land, and great was the clutching of pearls.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359573&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NHa5tivxs9U4RSikGe5vRIE6CvQ4G8avthOVkKXBhvY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359573">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359576" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495592717"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Orthodox medicine faces the blame for the epidemic of vaccine brain injury known as autism.</i></p> <p>You are trying to convince Alain that he is brain-damaged. Alain does not believe you. Your main rhetorical technique seems to consist of begging as many questions as possible within each single sentence, so you're probably not convincing anyone else either.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359576&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mgWYTpbP-O16okAUnLzfqcC2SFtJncL4xaxWE6XM1CA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359576">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359583" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495601165"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry. I dont know Alain. Its nothing personal. Im not here to insult anyone.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359583&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sp0PLUg7Xkwu_xsjwr61gZUDOE8I6n0PPbloe5ZLB_I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359583">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359576#comment-1359576" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359578" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495597781"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OK. I get an e-mail notification every time there is a comment. I'm getting tired of seeing half the comments here by VP. This is basically the sort of flooding of a comment thread designed to drown out the rest of my commenters. I've put up with it for around three days now, but it has be, and VP's responses are very repetitive and incredibly tiresome. If the pace of posting doesn't slow, I will take measures to slow it. I won't ba outright, but I have my ways. Moderation delay is generally the first step.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359578&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fJCYwUiUGybGCz5bZYhkOcMKCTqG_rlMnMSrUuQ9_v4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359578">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359580" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495598342"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am merely responding to objections and questions. Im not trolling or flooding. I am the only one here representing contrary opinion, so of course that creates a higher level of responses. Not my intention to take over. Sorry that impression occurred. Was planning to abandon this thread today, since it is getting repetitive. </p> <p>Orac-</p> <p>Are you going to address the new science showing brain injury from Al adjuvant? Like the new Crepeaux paper: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27908630">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27908630</a></p> <p>The new science showing the Mitkus analysis (the foundation for Al adjuvant safety) is wrong?</p> <p>The links between Al adjuvant and immune activation/cytokine brain injury?</p> <p>This is where the vaccine controversy is headed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359580&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JvH1KUH4zir7uaKCnx2nY-wUsUaYHsM-wuZ-oCkCEUY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359580">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359578#comment-1359578" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></p> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1359581" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495599091"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, you'll be back. You always come back eventually. This episode had just started to get on my nerves because of your repetition. And, yes, you were trolling and flooding. As for the "science," you do seem way too enamored of mouse studies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359581&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oZUBgzMV42ph5HoY7Yw341BYTVzOJZOrKy1ToINgGK8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359581">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359580#comment-1359580" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359582" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495601055"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I will be back! </p> <p>A big advantage of animal studies is that they can be properly controlled. Poorly-matched controls is the big problem with human epi studies of vaccines (i.e. healthy user bias). </p> <p>We have some good studies now on immune activation brain injury in monkeys.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359582&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dey-y8ohmXeP9bnpK42XxZPVyto_iesHrxTI-Z7lLa0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359582">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359581#comment-1359581" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359584" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495601336"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I do enjoy reading your blog. Its helpful to understand opposing opinion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359584&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QzMG6YuJm2U14yC9uehlxDdUGIR20yIhIzmUz6nwq-I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359584">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359581#comment-1359581" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></p> </footer> </article> </div></div></div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359579" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495598059"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>[Dorit's] risk of 1:1000 is overstated. That may be the risk for REPORTED cases, not total number of actual cases of measles.</p></blockquote> <p>It is next to impossible to miss Measles. And if anything, Dorit understated the risk of Measles encephalitis.</p> <blockquote><p>You are trying to convince Alain that he is brain-damaged. Alain does not believe you.</p></blockquote> <p>And neither do I</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359579&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2A8KBo5wChJD3qxfGi1g0YzEbGjuvjcn4Xgn73z_9uo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 23 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359579">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359585" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495602226"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Vinu<br /> I mean babies with autist siblings.<br /> @ VP<br /> What has to be explained is the rise in autism incidence after adjustment for diagnostic criteria change. If there is no evidence for concomitant changes in aluminium injections, why would people be interested in your hypothesis, knowing that testing it will be tricky?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359585&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ikilhjFFKbSPFMFRp84bub2H6b0YvthJd4m1jIkEups"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359585">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359592" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495617840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I mean babies with autist siblings."</p> <p>In that case we have to account for the fact that autism may have been caused by maternal autoantibodies against the fetal brain.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359592&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DsjZ-eR5IhgHAytX8S8NBRJLT5M9Asdz2VdcdgTBmtE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">vinu arumugham (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359592">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359585#comment-1359585" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359586" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495603386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Same behaviors. Same physiological damage. Same treatments are effective as humans. Same causes as in humans.</p> <p>Thats a good animal model.</p> <p>“These MIA (maternal immune activation) animal models meet all of the criteria required for validity for a disease model: They mimic a known disease-related risk factor (construct validity), they exhibit a wide range of disease-related symptoms (face validity), and they can be used to predict the efficacy of treatments (predictive validity).”<br /> –Dr Kimberley McAllister, UC Davis MIND Institute, Science, August 2016 (i.e. this paper: <a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6301/772">http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6301/772</a> )</p></blockquote> <p>Another case of Dan the VP crank hearing what he wants to hear and not understanding or critically-evaluating.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359586&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IM7cGvjplJIBeW6c15XYgvBVgDzuTsUPCg2FBk81aOQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359586">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359587" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495604861"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Are you going to address the new science showing brain injury from Al adjuvant? Like the new Crepeaux paper: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27908630">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27908630</a></p></blockquote> <p>Oh look it's the Who's Who of aluminium cranks. Another case of overdosing, non-randomisation, non-blinding, irrelevant animal tests, a couple of statistically-significant results and no clinical relevance. But this tells the VP crank what he wants to hear so it's "good science".</p> <blockquote><p>The new science showing the Mitkus analysis (the foundation for Al adjuvant safety) is wrong?</p></blockquote> <p>What is this "new science" you speak of?</p> <blockquote><p>The links between Al adjuvant and immune activation/cytokine brain injury?</p></blockquote> <p>Evidence?</p> <blockquote><p>This is where the vaccine controversy is headed.</p></blockquote> <p>Only in your fevered imagination. But I guess every crank needs a hobby.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359587&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0_Oj_zV-pheH8lzdXW6ggu-yM_VeLvK1prNqhG5ZgEI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359587">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359588" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495605880"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Darn, I was hoping to hear further revelations about f VP's Dreadful Particles, which "dont dissolve and they cannot be excreted by the kidneys" but somehow magically cross the blood-brain barrier and cause The Autism.</p> <p>I'm sure that can be explained as readily as the concept of brain inflammation in utero and in early infant life which is perfectly harmless if it comes from infection and maternal autoimmune disorders - but not if it is due to DEM EVIL VACCINES, in which case it causes The Autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359588&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wiHD60XXBCaTqWKF4DHlD3-rpmtE-q1633k6UNw0Gsk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359588">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359589" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495610527"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I see VP is still fixated on the idea that IL-6 from "vaccine induced inflammation" is the cause of autism, but somehow overlooks the inconvenient fact that the main triggers for IL-6 production are infections, particularly the childhood vaccine-preventable ones.</p> <p>If IL-6 caused autism, then the rates would have been higher prevaccine than they are now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359589&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4OMrdtW_RWP9Ehc200GiM0Z2QBmSyPa6HAV3XvjJrkk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359589">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359590" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495615899"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I was hoping to hear further revelations about f VP’s Dreadful Particles, which “dont dissolve and they cannot be excreted by the kidneys” but somehow magically cross the blood-brain barrier</p></blockquote> <p>Yah, he failed to get back to me on that hiding-in-lysosomes proposal, apparently preferring to wait for something he could whine was a personal attack instead.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359590&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xiaaQi0k8Lbr32FvIyll6KW7PQKSh3GdhiZ86wPlPac"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359590">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359593" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495622437"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh look, Vinu is blaming the mother's vaccines now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359593&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OEN3aHNJoLv1ouNy8caLJxmprqFywWPnrMErHmqj6G0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359593">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359594" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495622920"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks HDB,</p> <p><i>You are trying to convince Alain that he is brain-damaged. Alain does not believe you. Your main rhetorical technique seems to consist of begging as many questions as possible within each single sentence, so you’re probably not convincing anyone else either.</i></p> <p>Given that in the last two day, I only slept 3 hours but did enjoy an overfull night of sleep last night, I had the time to think about the whole mess and will write about it targeting VP in a few hours but I had to dig deep in the past WRT some of my experiences posting on AoA (among other) but definitely Orac is very right on a recent post (not referring to this one although this one is very right &amp; fine too).</p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359594&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_cvre6L-j6svoxIx18UyTjOT_Jv3qZaLG2fNy1lMDug"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359594">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359595" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495623633"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>Sorry.|<br /> I dont know Alain. Its nothing personal. Im not here to insult anyone.</b></p> <p>Me. I go by my first name. You could even deduct my last name from the post where I list the publication I worked on as part of the team of scientist coworker working on an auditory neuroimaging meta-analysis close to 10 years ago.</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21833294">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21833294</a></p> <p><a href="http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2010.00241/full">http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2010.00241/full</a></p> <p>I have no qualm about putting up my real name here.</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359595&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="teK7KaBBDAmhTSvrhFUBtTT2BYHCp2FgagHEXTbJqj8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359595">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359596" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495632883"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I do enjoy reading your blog. Its helpful to understand opposing opinion.</p></blockquote> <p>For certain values of "understand." Face it, Dan: your whoe trip is priggish in the extreme. Is there some reason you <i>host</i> the pirated material rather than just commenting on it and telling you audience how to steal it themselves?</p> <p>I'm somehow reminded of the Little Rascals/Our Gang episode in which a chicken plucks off the cowlick from a hiding Alfalfa, who has to suppress a loud cry of "My personality!"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359596&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pjoNb4Seyk83qx2sciDWzrM41PLPn-T3n6NcFuJ1FEg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359596">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359597" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495640079"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Given the behaviors unvaccinated mice exhibit (eating their babies for one) I'm not sure that they're a great behavioral model for humans.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359597&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jxZQccdTtXC964KjyY2pYOdXqiQQmTQCJ8yHja_HQ38"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359597">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359598" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495645448"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP (Dan): "I do enjoy reading your blog. Its helpful to understand opposing opinion"</p> <p>So did you check out the genetics of autism that was discussed on this video:<br /><a href="https://youtu.be/ub3WlwRM1F0?list=PLjvfRtcMhn4PB0NTW0RlvsMJGu1Csnn5s">https://youtu.be/ub3WlwRM1F0?list=PLjvfRtcMhn4PB0NTW0RlvsMJGu1Csnn5s</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359598&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yf_zvmHuBUPweOx6bplZm4wFCq7CumZwesZ_ePIBFTs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359598">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359600" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495652578"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yes. </p> <p>Its not genetic. Its a gene-environment interaction, which explains:<br /> 1) why all the twin studies show high heritability (a wrong result).<br /> 2) why there are hundreds of associated genes,.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359600&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jyNyOIIh3Qkn-8JzIqbPrk_onecjPbFYS8zKol8FHcQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359600">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1359598#comment-1359598" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359599" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495645766"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Aargh, failed "Copy video URL" in moderated comment!</p> <p>Okay, VP (Dan), since you said " Its helpful to understand opposing opinion” it would seem you would understand actual opposing <b>data</b>. Did you watch the video I posted earlier on autism genetics? Did you understand that this is what is going forward with discoveries that will actually help children?</p> <p>In case you missed it, here it is again (I hope):<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOQ9s0GcG5s&amp;list=PLjvfRtcMhn4PB0NTW0RlvsMJGu1Csnn5s&amp;index=41">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOQ9s0GcG5s&amp;list=PLjvfRtcMhn4PB0NTW0Rlv…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359599&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WwByXqB0DrebFF8DB468mxVSXToYWlRhMdEpkYCQvNc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359599">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359601" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495653890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Danny Boy who thinks his Vaccine Papers are relevant: "Its not genetic. Its a gene-environment interaction"</p> <p>So you did not even watch the video. You really do not want to even watch opposing <b>fact</b>. Pity.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1359601&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="39bB7GaBQ4hUJuDC8UrbhLhfQmiMj-PSXLIt-3997ek"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 May 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2391/feed#comment-1359601">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1359602" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1495656493"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I watched the stupid video. its wrong. </p> <p>Heritability estimates are deri