mastectomy https://scienceblogs.com/ en Homeopathy for breast cancer surgery? Isn't it bad enough that the patient has cancer and needs a mastectomy? https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/02/17/homeopathy-for-breast-cancer-surgery-isnt-it-bad-enough-that-the-patient-has-cancer-and-needs-a-mastectomy <span>Homeopathy for breast cancer surgery? Isn&#039;t it bad enough that the patient has cancer and needs a mastectomy?</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I like to refer to homeopathy as The One Quackery To Rule Them All, so much so that I almost always call it that within the first two paragraphs of any post I write about some tasty bit of homeopathy pseudoscience. It's also a wonderful tool for teaching critical thinking because it's easy to explain and people grasp intuitively why homeopathy is pseudoscience when it's explained properly to them. Basically, it's because of homeopathy's two laws. The first is the Law Similars, which states that, relieve a symptom, you must use something that causes the symptom. It's nonsense. There's no science behind a general rule like that. Then, there's the second law, the law of infinitesimals, which states that a remedy gets stronger with dilution. That's why homeopaths serially dilute their remedies—with intense shaking between each step of dilution (homeopaths claim that the shaking, or succussion, is absolutely essential)—to the point where it is unlikely that there is a single molecule of the remedy left. For instance, a 30C homeopathic remedy is a remedy that's been diluted 100-fold thirty times, which results in a total dilution of 10<sup>-60</sup>. Given that Avogadro's number (the number of molecules in a mole of a chemical) is roughly 6 x 10<sup>23</sup>, that means a 30C dilution is over 10<sup>36</sup> more than Avogadro's number. Most people think that homeopathy is nothing more than herbal medicine and have a hard time believing it when I tell them what homeopathy really is.</p> <p>All of this why skeptics frequently say that homeopathy is water, using that observation as the basis for jokes. Now, it's true that some "weaker" (i.e., less dilute) homeopathic remedies haven't been diluted enough times to dilute the original remedy to nothing (i.e., there's still something left), but most homeopathic remedies are, in fact, water or ethanol or whatever homeopaths used to dilute the remedy, usually pressed into sugar pills. A purer placebo, it is hard to imagine.</p> <!--more--><p>That's why it never ceases to amaze me when actual surgeons—even worse, breast cancer surgeons, my peeps!—forget everything they were taught in undergraduate and medical school about chemistry and physics and think that it's worthwhile to <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5289077/">test a homeopathic remedy in a randomized clinical trial</a> for breast surgery. After all, in such a trial, no matter what you choose as the placebo control, you're testing placebo versus placebo. In this case, it's surgeons in Italy, along with what appear to be basic scientists, testing the effect of a homeopathic remedy on healing in breast surgery. The remedy being tested is even more clearly water than even a 30C remedy. This time, the remedy being tested is Arnica montana, which is also known as wolf's bane, a flowering plant that is a member of the sunflower family. It's a common homeopathic remedy, and in this case it's really, <em>really</em>, <strong><em>really</em></strong> dilute:</p> <blockquote><p> <em>A. montana</em> 1000 K was in the form of drops in 30% hydro alcoholic solution, with sublingual absorption. The 1000 K dilution is a very high homeopathic dilution produced according to the French Pharmacopoeia, starting from a mother tincture (complete plant extract) which undergoes 1000 steps of successive dilution and shaking in a 30% water–alcohol solution. The mother tincture of the product used in this study contained a minimum content of 0.04% of sesquiterpenes (expressed as dihydrohelenanin tiglate). According to the Korsakovian dilution method, the same flask was used for the entire preparation: At each step, the flask was emptied of most of the liquid but not dried, and then immediately filled again with the solvent. Because the residual volume after emptying the flask certainly cannot be &gt;10% of the total used in each dilution, the 1000th K dilution is sufficiently high that it certainly does not contain toxic amounts of the plant. The placebo drops were identical in appearance to the active drops, but included only 30% hydro alcoholic solution without any homeopathic dilution. The studied homeopathic treatment and the placebo were manufactured and supplied in strictly identical packaging by Laboratoires Boiron S.r.l. (Segrate, Milan, Italy). </p></blockquote> <p>So what we're talking about is one thousand 100-fold serial dilutions, resulting in a final 10<sup>-2000</sup> dilution. This is madness, as it's estimated that there are only around 10<sup>80</sup> particles in the known universe. Seriously, all that is left there is 30% alcohol. So basically the study I'm examining is testing the effect of 30% alcohol on wound healing in breast surgery. You'll see what I mean. Here's the rationale:</p> <blockquote><p> Surgery is not free from significant complications, despite advancement in surgical techniques and in perioperative care. One of the major complications, particularly for breast and soft tissues surgery, is post-operative bleeding which represents a critical and, in some cases, lethal risk factor [1,2]. Moreover, post-operative bleeding after breast surgery causes a severe discomfort to the patient, entailing the need for surgical re-intervention and sometimes blood transfusions. Another frequent complication of breast surgery is seroma, which often requires numerous accesses for outpatient drainage, finally resulting in a delay of adjuvant therapy administration and a significant psychological burden [3]. </p></blockquote> <p>All of which is true, but doesn't justify this:</p> <blockquote><p> The risk of blood loss or seroma could be limited by identifying and then correcting potential triggers, but although this topic has been extensively studied, both hemorrhage and seroma are still largely reported [4,5]. Homeopathy could provide remedies based on compounds with anti-hemorrhagic and anti-inflammatory properties, but their use in diluted homeopathic solutions has been poorly investigated [6-9]. Indeed, some homeopathic remedies have been already evaluated in various surgical settings, however showing controversial effects [10-17]. Arnica montana is a plant belonging to the Compositae family and it grows in East and Central Europe [18]. In particular, its anti-inflammatory action is linked to the lactone helenalin that seems to be involved in the inhibition of the pro-inflammatory transcription factor nuclear factor kappa B (NF-κβ) [19-27]. A. montana has been recently evaluated in several surgical settings such as esthetic and orthopedic surgeries, but currently, no single study is available in literature on the effects of this homeopathic remedy in breast cancer surgery. In the present study, a homeopathic preparation of A. montana 1000 Korsakovian dilution (1000 K) was administered preoperatively and postoperatively in a placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trial to patients undergoing unilateral total mastectomy, with or without reconstruction, to evaluate any favorable or adverse effect on post-operative blood and seroma collection from surgical drains. </p></blockquote> <p>OK, let me back up and do a bit of explaining here. After a mastectomy, we generally place a drain under the skin flap in order to collect the drainage, which starts out bloody but clears up until it's serum, usually pink with a little bit of blood mixed in. When the drainage decreases to below a certain volume per day, the drains are removed. Patients don't like drains because they're inconvenient, messy, and can clog, but without drains, it's almost inevitable that there will accumulate something that's called a seroma, which is a collection of that serous fluid under the skin flap left after the mastectomy. Sometimes two drains are placed, usually when the patient has her axillary lymph nodes (the lymph nodes under the arm) removed, because the cut lymph vessels also leak lymph and can result in a seroma.</p> <p>In this study, the investigators studied the effect of 1000K A. montana compared to placebo on the following endpoints:</p> <ul> <li>Duration of drainage, which was calculated from day 1 to the day of drainage removal</li> <li>Time to reach a collected volume below 10 ml</li> <li>Self-evaluation of pain, measured by VAS after surgery</li> <li>The average time of hospitalization after surgery, which was measured in days following surgery</li> <li>The presence of bruising and hematomas or breast swelling, measured both in terms of presence versus absence and of description or size</li> <li>The differences between the volume collected on day 1 and the volume collected in each of the following days</li> <li>Possible adverse reactions to treatment.</li> </ul> <p>The patients were randomized to one of two grsoups:</p> <blockquote><p> The patients, according to the randomization list, received sublingually a dose of five drops of A. montana 1000 K 3 times a day, or placebo with identical times of administration, from 1st day before the surgery until the 4th day after the surgery (in total 6 days). </p></blockquote> <p>The results were analyzed using three models:</p> <ul> <li>Model 1: Includes the treatment;</li> <li>Model 2: Includes the treatment and the volume collected on the day of the intervention;</li> <li>Model 3: Includes the treatment, the volume collected on the day of surgery, and patient weight.</li> </ul> <p>Overall, 53 women were enrolled and randomized (26 in the A. montana group and 27 in the placebo group). One defect in this paper is that it didn't show a proper <a href="http://www.consort-statement.org/consort-statement/flow-diagram">CONSORT flow diagram</a>, which is generally mandatory for any halfway decent clinical trial. Be that as it may, what did the investigators find?</p> <p>Nothing that spectacular:</p> <blockquote><p> The per-protocol analysis revealed a lower mean volume of blood and serum collected in drainages with A. montana (−94.40 ml; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 22.48-211.28; P = 0.11). A regression model including treatment, volume collected in the drainage on the day of surgery, and patient weight showed a statistically significant difference in favor of A. montana (−106.28 ml; 95% CI: 9.45-203.11; P = 0.03). Volumes collected on the day of surgery and the following days were significantly lower with A. montana at days 2 (P = 0.033) and 3 (P = 0.0223). Secondary end points have not revealed significant differences. </p></blockquote> <p>The first thing to notice is that there really wasn't a lower mean volume in blood and serum collected in the patients treated with the homeopathic remedy. the p-value was only 0.11. Now, apparently the criterion used by these surgeons for removing the drains was 10 ml/24 hours, because that was the endpoint the investigators looked at. My criterion is a bit more liberal. Be that as it may, the results are not impressive. For instance, take a look at this graph, which shows the change in drainage after day 1:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/02/JIE-6-1-g002.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/02/JIE-6-1-g002-355x450.jpg" alt="Drain output over time" width="355" height="450" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-10706" /></a></p> <p>Yes, there does appear to be a slightly higher amount of drainage in the placebo group. It doesn't matter though. When it comes to breast surgery, what matters is not so much how much drainage is collected through the drains, but how many days before the drains can be removed. That number is the same for the placebo and homepathic A. montana groups.</p> <p>To drive home the point, look at this graph, which shows the time for each group to reach a &lt;10 ml of drainage/24 hours:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/02/JIE-6-1-g006.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/02/JIE-6-1-g006-450x358.jpg" alt="Time for drainage to stop" width="450" height="358" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-10707" /></a></p> <p>Basically, there was no difference, as I would expect. Certainly there is no clinically significant difference. Even the authors seem to know that:</p> <blockquote><p> In this study, which to our knowledge is the first to test the effect of A. montana in breast cancer surgery, we have measured the efficacy of the homeopathic treatment versus placebo in reducing the post-operative bleeding and seroma production in patients subjected to total mastectomy. The difference in the volume of blood and serum collected by drainages between the group of women treated with A. montana and those treated with placebo was statistically significant in the PP dataset, but only in the model which included, in addition to the type of treatment, the volume collected on the day of surgery, and the weight of the patient. Thus, we determine that these two additional variables have a considerable effect on the efficacy of the treatment, and further studies are needed to investigate their specific contributions. </p></blockquote> <p>Um, no. Basically you had to keep trying different models until you found one that produced a (barely) statistically significant result. I do have to give the authors props for this unintentionally hilarious observation:</p> <blockquote><p> The main limitations of the study were the relatively small sample, the analysis of post-operative recovery, which was limited only to 5 days, and the use of a high Korsakovian dilution which could have negatively impacted on the statistical significance of our findings. Observational studies with different Korsakovian dilutions could be useful to highlight any significant effect of A. montana and further validate these findings. </p></blockquote> <p>No. They. Could. Not. Be.</p> <p>And this statement sums up every homeopathy study ever:</p> <blockquote><p> The scientific community often claims that homeopathy effects are not supported by rigorous clinical trials. This study, although reporting statistical significance only for some specific data settings, suggests a reduction in post-operative blood loss and seroma production in a group of women who underwent breast cancer surgery and treated with A. montana 1000 K. </p></blockquote> <p>Seriously, this is about as negative a study as can be imagined, just like every other study of homeopathy that's anywhere near competently designed and carried out. That's because homeopathy is water, or, in this case, 30% ethanol in water. At the dosage given, it there's not even enough alcohol there to give you a little buzz. It's like taking a teaspoon of cough syrup, many of which also have alcohol in them.</p> <p>Once more, here we have a pseudoscientific and unethical clinical trial that shows...nothing. That's appropriate, though, because homeopathy is basically nothing.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Fri, 02/17/2017 - 01:37</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy" hreflang="en">Homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/breast-cancer" hreflang="en">breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy-0" hreflang="en">homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mastectomy" hreflang="en">mastectomy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackademic-medicine" hreflang="en">quackademic medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/physical-sciences" hreflang="en">Physical Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353286" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487315126"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Would this drainage be affected by the person being dehydrated? If so, up the alcohol amount and proportion and soon enough, the person will be too blitzed to care about the drainage, and the lack of fluids will reduce it to the required level in no time. :-) See.. Doubting Thomas. Homeopathy can work. :-)</p> <p>For the humour impaired. This is called a joke. A poor attempt maybe, but a joke none the less.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353286&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L3tumFWevkd15gxybAxcH7cSff2Q24wvBG5rUx4PVAs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Anonymous Pseudonym (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353286">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353287" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487316455"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This "study" comes from "The Journal of Intercultural Ethnopharmacology", whose home page states:</p> <p><i>The Journal of Intercultural Ethnopharmacology is aimed to serve an intercultural contemporary approach to the knowledge about world-wide usage of complementary medicine and their empirical and evidence-based effects.</i></p> <p>So this "study", showing no evidence-based effects, should not have been published based on their results.</p> <p><i> Homeopathy could provide remedies based on compounds with anti-hemorrhagic and anti-inflammatory properties, but their use in diluted homeopathic solutions has been poorly investigated [6-9]. </i></p> <p>Yes, because homeopathic protamine sulfate and homeopathic levofloxacin have worked <b> so well </b> (s/o)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353287&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lYF7OQ_ia3KPo9dO_RfClHc3xVF5VIXfwyBMkhm-BXU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353287">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353288" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487319033"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Recently I've gotten myself involved in a typical fight over the internet regarding alternative "medicine" and homeopathy. That's how I got to know that France is a country that wholly embraces MAC and all that stuff! They even have a statement regarding that subject on an official website: </p> <p><a href="http://www.hopital.fr/Vos-dossiers-sante/Prises-en-charge/Medecines-alternatives-et-complementaires">http://www.hopital.fr/Vos-dossiers-sante/Prises-en-charge/Medecines-alt…</a></p> <p>Now that is crazy. Well, the country I live in is crazy enough, but at least we don't get to offer sugar balls as a legit treatment. Honestly, if MAC ever spreads to my national standard healthcare, I will gladly surrender my license.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353288&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N4kNxEf5cHilmlWQFSQWJr461iBiI_SBAKNDJ1kGnBE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustGraduated (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353288">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353289" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487319675"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"breast cancer surgeons, my peeps!—forget everything they were taught in undergraduate and medical school "<br /> Maybe this reflects strange reasoning from breast cancer surgeons. I know some who believe that when a breast cancer is larger than 2 cm, it will kill the patient if left untreated, but if it is between 1 and 2 cm it may regress spontaneously. This is nonsense, since the lifetime of a cancer between 1 and 2 cm is much shorter than from initiation to 1 cm.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353289&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BMsQybSKc8Xr-rCrHmFtAVlu6JjAT2w6TiUTNF7Ta6k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Danial Corcos (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353289">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353290" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487320199"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So not only did a bunch of alleged scientists think a 1000K homeopathic remedy (not sure if that is C dilutions or M dilutions, but with that many dilutions the distinction is irrelevant) was worth a clinical trial, but one or more IRBs or equivalent bodies agreed.</p> <p>&lt;voice="Lloyd Bridges"&gt;Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit Coca-Cola.&lt;/voice&gt;</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353290&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KU4nRgyJd0KZdekQHsIlM4kQTKvFlGIZDsFSuiyOcC0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353290">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353291" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487322104"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Surgery is not free from significant complications, despite advancement in surgical techniques and in perioperative care.... resulting in a delay of adjuvant therapy administration and a significant psychological burden [3]. "</p> <p>Seriously, this is my sister. My sister RIGHT NOW. She was sent home on Tuesday because her incision is too messed up for chemotherapy. And the first round of (neoadjuvent) chemo resulted in sepsis, 12 days in the hospital, another two weeks of intravenous antibiotics, at which time she skipped directly to mastectomy, which was followed by clogged drains and yet another infection.</p> <p>Anybody who gets close to her with A. montana is likely to suffer serious injury. Sheesh.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353291&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-WJ-NeKaSUwY1LWhT98ZWUi9ULtm0OSiqoPCPqxaxeU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353291">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353292" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487322252"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>This “study” comes from “The Journal of Intercultural Ethnopharmacology”</p></blockquote> <p>Part of the Ejmanager LLC stable, which predictably was on <a href="https://clinicallibrarian.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/bealls-list-of-predatory-publishers/">Beall's list</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353292&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aTtyDpR8X2gM9r99XQWq8XCfOdlWXDt74IldtKJ7cko"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353292">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353293" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487324168"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The risk of blood loss or seroma could be limited by identifying and then correcting potential triggers, but although this topic has been extensively studied, both hemorrhage and seroma are still largely reported [4,5]. Homeopathy could provide remedies based on compounds with anti-hemorrhagic and anti-inflammatory properties . . . .</p></blockquote> <p>If you want to <b>cause</b> hemorrhage and inflammation, sure. The authors don't seem to have glommed onto the Law of Similars properly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353293&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PM4x8lWqMMqWsQI7a8NBWRLTm_5mwgruv_wazdCXPo4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353293">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353294" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487329045"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I note that in Table 3, the mean volumes don't add up to the values listed under "total," and the placebo values for days 1–4 are not reported to the same number of significant digits as the other entries. I haven't bothered to subtract off the baseline values to see how they jibe with Fig.&amp;nbsp.1<i>b</i>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353294&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vKDCilTXA0mWdlgrMs3OK0u3RtkVzHAm_kXZ5FTF20Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353294">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353295" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487330645"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>30% ethanol? They were conversing with a high-level spirit.</p> <p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4231626">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4231626</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353295&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ePjN5kz4uU875-p5KzXvIq0HxuUieg6ZwDQ6MrPoyrM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mark Thorson (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353295">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353296" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487330965"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"So this “study”, showing no evidence-based effects, should not have been published based on their results."</p> <p>Null results are not published often enough. The problem is rather the pointlessness of the study and the erroneous conclusion, as Orac said. If they'd been honest about it the paper would have at least a tiny bit of redeeming value.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353296&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DkxpbySFSHVfwkNsCieQLQNl00RMHZOwlTKGGXbr68A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rs (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353296">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353297" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487331236"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>1000k? -- Shirley, you can't be serious!</p> <p>And doesn't this fail the Law of Similars? My impression was that honest-to-god Arnica herbal resins do help with inflammation, not cause it...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353297&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="24XyrxGb0yyQaw-ox5YCrlrK483OENyX_vFz0sfaKOM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lkr (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353297">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353298" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487332881"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>So what we’re talking about is one thousand 100-fold serial dilutions, resulting in a final [$latex 10^{-2000}$] dilution.</p></blockquote> <p>In addition to the whole Law of Similars problem, they're quite vague about this. Again, "the residual volume after emptying the flask certainly cannot be &gt;10% of the total used in each dilution." So it's Korsakovian, which is usually centesimal, but then throw in the canonical "X" scale decimal-dilution value for good measure.</p> <p>Hell, they don't even seem to have <b>succussed</b> the stuff.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353298&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kcczH0ciz7rOCWs0iOCLMl8FOnBET7QWq3zPDUjptGo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353298">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353299" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487333350"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Exclusion of participants was about 2.2 times higher in the placebo group.<br /> Would someone who knows about these things comment on whether or not that says anything about randomness of assignment to groups?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353299&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7G25gTLxgt0bVEn-vXypIQNWRhw7liPcrVSeaaKuH1A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353299">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353300" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487334698"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Doug:</p> <p>I'm someone who knows about these things, and a big difference like that is certainly evidence against randomness of group assignment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353300&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8ntI2akLIYGz0Zs4qHhd-TJLHstcTiU26fXNPsnqC7g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">madder (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353300">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353301" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487335254"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The latest craze among doctors : ALTERNATIVE Homeopathy : "We found that medicines work much better when we put some active ingredients in them.".....( from TheSciencePost )</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353301&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qApB_LNNvcvP0cHeWliWOOUIV-8AUctcw_VVewmYwOw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DANIEL GAUTREAU (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353301">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353302" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487335276"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@doug, @madder</p> <p>I don't think so--the values in question were 3 and 7, so if the expected value is 5 then the Chi-square is a measly 1.6, which is not indicative of funny business.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353302&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0JH02zwnVVJ25FE0LF9m3_8w0N46i9TDplxA9HtH0yw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christine Rose (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353302">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353303" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487337211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The difference in the volume of blood and serum collected by drainages between the group of women treated with A. montana and those treated with placebo was statistically significant in the PP dataset, but only in the model which included, in addition to the type of treatment, the volume collected on the day of surgery, and the weight of the patient. Thus, we determine that these two additional variables have a considerable effect on the efficacy of the treatment, and further studies are needed to investigate their specific contributions.</p></blockquote> <p>As long as we are torturing the data until it confesses, may I ask whether the other two variables, independent of which placebo was given, are sufficient to explain the results? Presumably they do not see a significant difference if they only include the variable they are formally testing. That does not in any way imply that, if they add two additional variables, that the variable they are formally testing is the most important of the three, as they are implicitly assuming.</p> <p>OK, it may not be possible to do this with this kind of data set (unlike with the sorts of data sets I work with). But shouldn't the referees have flagged this? OK, given the details upthread about the alleged journal that published this study, that's a rhetorical question.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353303&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bfJn048X5LvrI592a24lsA3AQgjcqt4NnPAcfftxx40"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353303">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353304" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487340944"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Thus, we determine that these two additional variables have a considerable effect on the efficacy of the treatment, and further studies are needed to investigate their specific contributions.</i></p> <p>That's some classic statistical-malpractice magical thinking right there. No, "Absence of results when we include confounding factors" <b>does not</b> mean "There is an effect, and the confounding factors are mediating it". It means, "there <b>is no effect</b>".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353304&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="axNT6V_hJRvSNz6vxE04i8phmmtZ_cxisJwUnGvsjdA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353304">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353305" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487341297"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The studied homeopathic treatment and the placebo were manufactured and supplied in strictly identical packaging by Laboratoires Boiron S.r.l. </p></blockquote> <p>Truth in labeling?<br /> _______</p> <p>Alternative explanation: Boiron is selling fake A. montana 1000 K. </p> <p>After the expected effects failed to appear, the lead researcher sent samples of the placebo and the A. montana, remedy, properly blinded, to Antonietta Gatti and Stefano Montanari, who examined them with their electron miocroscope. Gatti and Montanari found no A. montana nanoparticles in either sample, however they reported a statistically significant higher quotient of <i>nanotoxins</i> in the supposed homeopathic remedy!</p> <p>How then did the 'results' get spun and published? My sources are not at liberty to say, but a franchise agreement with the Genco Olive Oil company appears to have been involved...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353305&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VoZ4Qv6i30V-QgwLnFOlX3uD_it2XGLPxYjOhIsgrUw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353305">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353306" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487343733"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Alternative explanation: Boiron is selling fake A. montana 1000 K.</p></blockquote> <p>How would we know the difference? Maybe they're only doing 500 dilutions, or 200, or whatever. It still would be hundreds of orders of magnitude beyond getting one atom out of the entire observable universe. For that matter, how do we know that Boiron is manufacturing any authentic homeopathic remedies? It's much cheaper and easier to not bother with the alleged active ingredient in the first place.</p> <p>BTW, you are testing the edges of Poe's law here. I had to read your comment twice to realize you were snarking. Had this comment been attached to an unfamiliar 'nym, or a known troll, I would have assumed that it was trolling.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353306&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uua8FD01mH2AiybENQjQI4dBn0HDmtUkegbu7YFsxxs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353306">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353307" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487349272"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Alternative explanation: Boiron is selling fake A. montana 1000 K.</p></blockquote> <p>I presume that it was not an off-the-shelf product.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353307&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oLaSQhoyrupi8N22OGYQa10gU37J4ERVvbUc2xEDcMM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353307">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353308" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487349395"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>For that matter, how do we know that Boiron is manufacturing any authentic homeopathic remedies?</p></blockquote> <p>They generate hazardous waste, for one thing. The two annual reports that I have are on the disk I'm trying to rescue, though.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353308&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NrYnFYP8lwGq0KKLk49zHp2EKhE5aa0dE-ms4OvepOw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353308">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353309" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487398028"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sometimes I see quacks selling "heavy water" (water where a lot of the hydrogen in H20 has been replaced by deuterium) as a medical therapy (unproven, but still marketed as therapeutic--though heavy water does have uses in real scientific research). Unscrupulous homeopaths (this is redundant, I know) should sell homeopathic heavy water. Then the rest of us could sit back with our popcorn and watch the fireworks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353309&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="c781pP4x-y3MR3KcvZ9PaAUx8VCLJhJYSO2FgSRhCQM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 18 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353309">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353310" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487410831"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>They're way ahead of you, Dr. Hickie.</p> <p><a href="http://www.remedia-homeopathy.com/en/heavy-water/a210106">http://www.remedia-homeopathy.com/en/heavy-water/a210106</a></p> <p>And it's gluten-free!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353310&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="edYhZ2KKK8vXTBXkrccBMCH53vaVChitMSttrogSCzQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 18 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353310">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353311" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487418719"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Dangerous Bacon #26--Dang. Sometimes I almost regret having a sense of right and wrong when I see crooks stealing from other crooks who are both stealing from marks. Gotta love the name for this homeopathic heavy water--<b>Deuterium oxydatum</b>, however, I can't find what symptoms it's supposed to treat unless I'm willing to pay 20 bucks for a 6 month membership on openhomeoinfo.org. </p> <p>Next up on my list: selling homeopathic outer space oxygen to NASA.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353311&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DhypKUywpF2HEOoOaL3LtMzRrm7yJah3Vfl2-jjUVBI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 18 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353311">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353312" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487449719"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Eric;</p> <p>i didn't want the <i>Godfather</i> reference to be as obvious as "make them an offer they don't refuse", but still I'd think olive oil would tip the lack of seriousness, if "fake" homeopathy hadn't. </p> <p>Of course, maybe it's just too hard to imagine anyone in such a pure, safe, natural business as homeopathy coercing (or paying off) fake research to help them make real money on fake bottles of snake-oil fakery. The only people who would sink that low are the toxin-touts of Big Pharma, after all. Not Boiron. Not at all. Never...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353312&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ehkgR3OW2w6GU_5AagPjl1NjwjQz5yB1zZktcLynWHY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 18 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353312">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353313" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487450034"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's happening everywhere. Here in NZ we have this delightful study underway. I can't believe they gave her $80,000, which could have gone to meaningful research! <a href="http://corpus.nz/tai-chi-breast-cancer-research-project/">http://corpus.nz/tai-chi-breast-cancer-research-project/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353313&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y9kMYwDWcu9rfJuNskbX5dA8LN6LLXMTpPWrRAc9cC4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NZ Skeptic (not verified)</span> on 18 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353313">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353314" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487480182"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad #23: "They generate hazardous waste, for one thing. The two annual reports that I have are on the disk I’m trying to rescue, though."</p> <p>By that I assume you are referring to the waste material from toxic plants they process.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353314&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3ncURo06q5o1VTNt6j0KEcypcpBEj6L9JCJXod7qgIA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 18 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353314">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353315" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1487806637"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is of course one possibility for the results of the study.: One or more of the participants were Werewolves and were having and adverse reaction to the Wolfsbane which is a traditional method of killing them. I feel this is a far more plausible reason for the results than any other positive reaction..</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353315&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1O95L9zFsmDbncZ3d7SC-PKUQl8RCqLLTOaHYjUgDxU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">darkamberdragon (not verified)</span> on 22 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353315">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353316" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1488075355"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.knowable.com/a/33-people-who-no-one-believed-but-were-actually-right-all-along/p-2">http://www.knowable.com/a/33-people-who-no-one-believed-but-were-actual…</a><br /> Take a look at No. 8.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353316&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d0QplC12LxPwfUDZ4kYKiCbACG8C5HmcZ8fJwSN0GzE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 25 Feb 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353316">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1353317" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1489540865"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Belle Gibson has been found guilty of misleading the public.<br /> <a href="http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/2017/03/15/Australian-quack-blogger-guilty-over-brain-cancer-claims-court1">http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/2017/03/15/Australian-quack-blogger-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1353317&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cX4cy9jW6WCHXPiOsjE3Tc2SFjClBh-gY7q0jpGvBWQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 14 Mar 2017 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1353317">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/02/17/homeopathy-for-breast-cancer-surgery-isnt-it-bad-enough-that-the-patient-has-cancer-and-needs-a-mastectomy%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 17 Feb 2017 06:37:24 +0000 oracknows 22495 at https://scienceblogs.com The quack view of preventing cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie, part 4 https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/04/03/the-quack-view-of-preventing-cancer-versus-reality-and-angelina-jolie-part-4 <span>The quack view of preventing cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie, part 4</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Why, oh why, did I look at <a href="http://www.greenmedinfo.com/" rel="nofollow">GreenMedInfo</a> again?</p> <p>You remember GreenMedInfo? It's yet another wretched hive of scum and quackery, but with a twist. Its proprietor, Sayer Ji, thinks he's an expert at interpreting the biomedical literature. Unfortunately, as he demonstrates time and time again with depressing regularity, he is nothing of the sort. In reality, what Ji is an expert at is cherry picking medical studies and torturing them until they confess agreement with whatever quack idea he's currently espousing. In the wake of the news coverage of Angelina Jolie's decision to have her ovaries removed because she had a dangerous mutation in the gene for BRCA1, a mutation that gave her a very high risk of breast and ovarian cancers, he demonstrated that rather well. Indeed, last week, I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/03/26/the-quack-view-of-preventing-cancer-versus-reality-and-angelina-jolie-part-3/">deconstructed his criticism of Jolie's decision</a> and the incredibly faulty scientific and logical reasoning behind it. Other than a minor Twitter confrontation with Ji the day after I posted, I moved on after having refuted his nonsensical and scientifically ignorant arguments because, well, you have to move on in blogging.</p> <p>Unfortunately, Ji revisited the topic of BRCA1 mutations just yesterday with an equally fallacious article about BRCA1 mutations entitled <a href="http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/brca-breast-cancer-gene-death-sentence" rel="nofollow">Is BRCA ("Breast Cancer Gene") A Death Sentence?</a> I could have told Ji the answer if he had asked me and saved him a lot of trouble. The answer is no. BRCA1 mutations predisposing to breast and ovarian cancer are bad, but they are hardly a "death sentence." Of course, Ji, demonstrating that the intended correct answer to any question used as the title of an article is no, goes beyond that basic answer to try to argue again that BRCA1 mutations don't matter and that "genes are not destiny," basing his claims on a recent systematic review and meta-analysis by van den Broek et al entitled <a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0120189">Worse Breast Cancer Prognosis of BRCA1/BRCA2 Mutation Carriers: What's the Evidence? A Systematic Review with Meta-Analysis</a>. It is exactly what its title says, a meta-analysis of studies examining the effect of BRCA1 mutations on breast cancer survival. As is his wont, Ji begins the article very confidently, amazingly overconfidently, actually:</p> <!--more--><blockquote> What we think we know about the BRCA (Breast Cancer Susceptibility Associated) genes causing cancer is patently false, according to a new meta-analysis on the extant literature on the subject of these gene variations on breast cancer survival prognosis. </blockquote> <p>No. Not exactly. Let's just say that this meta-analysis doesn't say what Ji thinks it does, at least nowhere near to the level the he does. Ji read this meta-analysis and concluded that it tells us that "what we think we know about BRCA1 is false." It's not, except in Ji's mind. First off, this meta-analysis says nothing about BRCA1 mutations causing cancer. That's just the underlying assumption of the review, because it's so well-established that certain BRCA1 mutations confer a vastly elevated risk of breast and ovarian cancer that no cancer doc seriously argues against that contention any more. What this meta-analysis looks at is one question: Whether breast cancers associated with BRCA1 are deadlier than basic run-of-the-mill breast cancers, which is a common belief among physicians, one not without evidence to support it. Not surprisingly, Ji's interpretation of the study at one point is so spectacularly wrong that it's downright hilarious:</p> <blockquote><p> A groundbreaking new meta-analysis published in PLoS titled,"Worse Breast Cancer Prognosis of BRCA1/BRCA2 Mutation Carriers: What's the Evidence? A Systematic Review with Meta-Analysis", calls into question the value of using BRCA1/2 gene status to determine breast cancer survival prognosis, as is common practice today. This implications of this research may have wide-ranging effects as the present climate, following Angelina Jolie's high profile decision to have prophylactic breast, ovary and fallopian tube removed due to her perceived "genetic inheritance," is to equate BRCA status with bona fide and mathematically calculable disease risk certainty. </p> <p>Jolie's decision to subject herself to multiple prophylactic organ removal was based on the premise that her BRCA mutations would result in an 87 percent lifetime risk of developing breast cancer and up to 54 percent chance of ovarian cancer, as prognosticated by her doctors. The notion that BRCA genes have full or near full penetrance (the ability of a mutation to cause clinically identifiable disease) has profound implications for the health of millions of women who rely on these predictions to make life and death medical decisions. </p></blockquote> <p>I've dealt with this nonsense before, of course, but this is the same nonsense with a different spin. So I consider it useful to deconstruct that different spin. First off, this meta-analysis does <em>not</em> in the least bit call into question the finding that certain BRCA1 mutations can confer an 87% lifetime risk of breast cancer and a 50% lifetime risk of ovarian cancer. What it calls into question is whether the breast cancers caused by BRCA1 are actually deadlier than cancers not associated with such mutations. It's been commonly thought that they are, and, in fact, there's a fair amount of evidence that they are. The conclusion of this meta-analysis is also not a new finding. For example, a year and a half ago, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23940229">Huzarski et al</a> published a study examining ten year survival in cancers with BRCA1-positive breast cancer. Basically, 3,345 women with stage I to III breast cancer under the age of 50 were tested for three founder mutations in BRCA1. It was found that 7% carried a BRCA1 mutation and that the ten year survival rate in BRCA1 carriers and non-carriers was very similar, 80.9% and 82.2%, respectively, with no statistically significant difference between the two. Basically, what the meta-analysis shows is that the evidence is inconclusive as to whether BRCA1-associated breast cancers result in worse survival.</p> <p>So why is Ji harping on this?</p> <p>Basically, it's the same nonsense that I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/03/26/the-quack-view-of-preventing-cancer-versus-reality-and-angelina-jolie-part-3/">discussed last time</a> and expanded upon <a href="https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/angelina-jolie-surgical-strategies-for-cancer-prevention-and-genetics-denialism-revisited/">elsewhere</a>. Ji is heavily invested in "proving" that cancer is not a genetic disease and that whatever woo <em>du jour</em> he favors, be it diet, lifestyle, supplements, or whatever, can prevent or reverse virtually any cancer. Cancers due to a genetic predisposition, such as BRCA1-induced breast and ovarian cancers are a direct challenge to that concept, and Ji cannot allow his readers to accept the scientific consensus with respect to them because then they might start doubting that what he's selling will do them any good. So, like last time, he goes on the attack, ignoring the fact that the very meta-analysis that he uses as his jumping off point didn't even conclude that BRCA1-associated breast cancers are deadlier, only that the evidence that they are is inconclusive.</p> <p>Last time around, Ji conflated absolute risk of cancer with relative risk in BRCA1 mutation carriers, shamelessly quoting studies of sporadic breast and ovarian cancer as though they had any more than minimal relevance to cases of BRCA1-induced cancers. He's even more shameless in spinning the question of overdiagnosis and overtreatment. For instance, he states that, according to a <em>New England Journal of Medicine</em> study, 1.3 million US women were "wrongly diagnosed and treated in the past 30 years." Uh, no. Not exactly. The study to which Ji refers is, of course, <a href="http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1206809">Archie Bleyer and H. Gilbert Welch's 2012 study</a> that found that approximately 30% of mammographically detected breast cancers were overdiagnosed. I've <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/12/03/crank-spin-versus-science-on-mammography/">discussed Ji's characterization of this particular study before</a>. "Overtreatment" doesn't necessarily mean "wrongly treated." In fact, arguably it does not. As we like to say in medicine, the retrospectoscope is 100% accurate. The problem was (and is) that as yet we do not and cannot know for mammographically-detected breast cancers which lesions will progress to threaten the life of the woman and which will not. Knowing what we know, we therefore are obligated to treat all screen-detected cancers as though they are potentially deadly. Until we have the tools to do that, we either have to treat them this way, or stop or decrease screening.</p> <p>Ji continues to use loaded language here:</p> <blockquote><p> And so, previous studies on BRCA1/2 gene variations and the incidence of breast cancer have not taken this massive statistical inflation of non-cancerous "breast cancer diagnoses" into account, further feeding the illusion that having an identified BRCA mutation equates to having a inexorably higher risk of a deadly cancer, when in fact, in cases where BRCA was linked to so-called early stage or 'stage zero' lesions such as <a href="http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/mammograms-linked-epidemic-misdiagnosed-cancers" rel="nofollow">Ductal Carcinoma In Situ</a> (DCIS), this condition was recently determined to be <a href="http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/millions-wrongly-treated-cancer-national-cancer-institute-panel-confirms">intrinsically benign by a NCI-commissioned expert panel</a> and therefore should not be lumped together with other truly deadly forms of breast cancer, as is still common practice today despite the growing body of evidence against it. </p></blockquote> <p>DCIS "intrinsically benign"? That's a rather obvious misrepresentation of what the NCI panel actually concluded. <a href="http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1722196">This</a> is the paper to which Ji refers. It's by Laura Esserman, Ian Thompson, and Brian Reid. Yes, Esserman et al, summarizing the NCI panel's findings, argue that DCIS and precancerous prostate lesions should not be called cancer, but they hardly argue that they are "intrinsically benign." In fact, they write:</p> <blockquote><p> Change cancer terminology based on companion diagnostics. Use of the term “cancer” should be reserved for describing lesions with a reasonable likelihood of lethal progression if left untreated. There are 2 opportunities for change. First, premalignant conditions (eg, ductal carcinoma in situ or high-grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia) should not be labeled as cancers or neoplasia, nor should the word “cancer” be in the name. Second, molecular diagnostic tools that identify indolent or low-risk lesions need to be adopted and validated. Another step is to reclassify such cancers as IDLE (indolent lesions of epithelial origin) conditions. An example is the reclassification of grade 1 papilloma to urothelial neoplasia of low malignant potential. Presciently, the rationale for reclassifying papilloma and grade 1 carcinoma as “papillary urothelial neoplasia oflow malignant potential” was “to take the lowest grades of tumor, the most benign-appearing lesions, and remove the word carcinoma.” A multidisciplinary effort across the pathology, imaging, surgical, advocate, and medical communities could be convened by an independent group (eg, the Institute of Medicine) to revise the taxonomy of lesions now called cancer and to create reclassification criteria for IDLE conditions. </p></blockquote> <p>In other words, lesions with a relatively low chance of progressing to cancer should be reclassified. This is a completely reasonable suggestion. However, Esserman et al make it clear that, while these lesions should probably not be called "cancer," they are by no means "intrinsically benign," as Ji falsely characterizes them. In any case, Ji claims that the existence of overdiagnosis somehow calls into doubt the high lifetime risk of breast cancer conferred by high risk BRCA1 mutations. It's a profoundly stupid argument, and I'll show you why. Let's, for instance, assume an 87% lifetime risk of breast cancer from Angelina Jolie's BRCA1 mutation, as her doctors told her she had. Now, let's do something as simplistic as Ji's reasoning but, in the context of his argument that overdiagnosis "inflates" the risk of breast cancer due to BRCA1 mutations. Let's take a rate of overdiagnosis of 30%, meaning that any cancers detected in our hypothetical situation examining BRCA1 carriers are 70% likely to be "real." Now, 0.70 x 0.87 = 0.61, or a 61% lifetime risk of developing a life-threatening breast cancer. Even using Ji's simplistic model, that's still pretty damned high. In brief, Ji's handwaving and invoking of overdiagnosis are nothing more than an obvious smokescreen. Overdiagnosis does not even come close to explaining the high risk of breast cancer in BRCA1 carriers, and I'm not even taking into account how overdiagnosis declines as disease prevalence goes up. It is, however, known that DCIS is <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17210933">roughly as prevalent</a> in BRCA1 mutation carriers as in non-carriers, but occurs at an early age, evidence in favor of the premalignant character of a lot of DCIS.</p> <p>Ji also resurrects his claim that the existence of Borderline Ovarian Tumors (BOTs), which can also be overdiagnosed and overtreated, somehow inflate the number of cancers attributed to BRCA1. He cites a <a href="http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=900666">JAMA study</a> he cited last time that "found that 5 times more women are diagnosed and treated with ovarian cancer than actually have it -- indicating a massive problem that is not being taken into account by most literature on the role of BRCA mutations in cancer risk because these studies accept diagnosed cancer uncritically as actual cancer which is simply not the case due to the still largely unaccounted for issue of overdiagnosis." This study, of course, is one big reason why we don't screen the general population for ovarian cancer using transvaginal ultrasound and CA-125 blood tests. The study found that for ovarian cancer screening using these tests doesn't work; it doesn't decrease mortality from ovarian cancer and results in a lot of overdiagnosis. </p> <p>Again, however, screening the general population is a very different case than observing women with high risk BRCA1 mutations for the development of ovarian cancer. Let's just put it this way, even if, in general, overdiagnosis due to screening didn't decline precipitously with increasing prevalence of a disease, we have plenty of evidence that prophylactic surgery is effective, that intervening, as was done with Angelina Jolie, to prophylactically remove the tissue at high risk for cancer dramatically improves overall survival of these women. Bilateral prophylactic mastectomy reduces the risk of breast cancer in women with high risk BRCA1 mutations by at least 90%. (See, for example, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9887158">Hartman et al, 1999</a>; <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20810374">Domchek et al, 2010</a>; <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14981104">Rebbeck et al, 2004</a>; <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11463009">Meijers-Heijboer et al 2001</a>.) Removal of the ovaries is also highly effective in reducing mortality from ovarian cancer in such patients, lowering the risk by 70-90%. (See, for example, <a href="http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa020119">Kauff et al, 2002</a>; <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18268356">Kauff et al, 2008</a>; <a href="http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/early/2014/02/24/JCO.2013.53.2820.abstract">Finch et al 2014</a>.) That prophylactic oophorectomy to prevent ovarian cancer and prophylactic bilateral mastectomy to prevent breast cancer in carriers of high-risk BRCA1 mutations are highly effective is not even controversial. Such recommendations are "baked" into major evidence-based guidelines, like those of the <a href="http://www.nccn.org">NCCN</a>, as a significant option for women found to have such mutations to consider. <a href="http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/genetics/brca-fact-sheet">Other options exist</a>, such as enhanced screening (which has not been shown to be effective in ovarian cancer) or chemoprevention.</p> <p>If you want to get an idea how mendacious Ji is, look no further than this passage:</p> <blockquote><p> Furthermore, prophylactic removal of the ovaries before age 45 (Jolie is 39) has been linked to 67% increased mortality risk, according to a <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17012044">2006 study published in Lancet Oncology</a>, indicating that organ removal as a generic form of "cancer prevention" may be doing the opposite of 'saving lives' as widely claimed. </p></blockquote> <p>That 2006 study? Take a look at just the abstract, and you'll see why Ji is full of it. Specifically, the Method part:</p> <blockquote><p> From an existing cohort of all women who underwent unilateral or bilateral oophorectomy while residing in Olmsted County, MN, USA, in 1950-87, we analysed those who had received an oophorectomy for a non-cancer indication before the onset of menopause. Every member of the cohort was matched by age to a referent woman in the same population who had not undergone oophorectomy. </p></blockquote> <p>Yes, these were women who had their ovaries removed for non-cancer indications before 1987. I note that BRCA1 was not identified as a gene until 1990 and was not cloned until 1994. I also note that this study examined women who had their ovaries removed for non-cancerous reasons. Finally, Ji left a big finding of this study out:</p> <blockquote><p> However, mortality was significantly higher in women who had received prophylactic bilateral oophorectomy before the age of 45 years than in referent women (hazard ratio 1.67 [95% CI 1.16-2.40], p=0.006). This increased mortality was seen mainly in women who had not received oestrogen up to the age of 45 years. No increased mortality was recorded in women who underwent unilateral oophorectomy in either overall or stratified analyses. </p></blockquote> <p>In other words, the increased mortality of women who had their ovaries removed before age 45 was mainly seen in women who didn't undergo estrogen replacement therapy until age 45 after their surgery. The authors also noted:</p> <blockquote><p> Although prophylactic bilateral oophorectomy undertaken before age 45 years is associated with increased mortality, whether it is causal or merely a marker of underlying risk is uncertain. </p></blockquote> <p>So, yes, Ji misrepresented another study. Quelle surprise. He also resurrects his observation that BRCA1-associated ovarian cancers might be somewhat less aggressive and more sensitive to chemotherapy than sporadic cancers, to which I again say: So what? It's still a plenty deadly cancer, and certainly no advantage is seen in BRCA1-associated breast cancers. In fact, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25348513">another 2015 meta-analysis</a> published in a better journal and more comprehensively looking at both breast and ovarian cancer found that BRCA1-associated ovarian cancer does have a better prognosis but that BRCA1-associated breast cancer portended a significantly worse overall survival, in disagreement with the meta-analysis Ji cited.</p> <p>Ji finishes with his real message:</p> <blockquote><p> And therefore, what do we really understand about BRCA gene 'mutations' when there are over 500 that have been identified, and whose complexity and role in health and disease are still not yet understood? The truth is that the linear and deterministic gene &gt; trait &gt; disease risk/prognosis way of thinking is archaic, and reflects the type of hubris that should have been sloughed off after the first draft of the human genome project in 2005 found that the 'holy grail' of molecular biology was not to be found in the genome, but in the interstitial space of its interactions with the myriad factors 'beyond the control of the gene,' the realm of epigenetics, which involves everything from the food your mother ate, your in utero exposures, to your breast feeding duration, the toxins and toxicants you were and are exposed to, your way of thinking, attitudes and beliefs and the downstream physiological effects they have, ad infinitum.</p> <p>Ironically, the notion that genes determine destiny is more than just an idea but a reality for those who believe it and act on the meme, putting ideology into practice in their biology and medical decisions. This is why acknowledging the research that calls into question biological determinism and medical fatalism is so powerful and why we hope our readers continue to explore the primary literature itself as it expands and transforms the often out-dated knowledge base that conventional practice is still under the illusion is reflective of the truth. </p></blockquote> <p>Ji sounds rather like a creationist, doesn't he, harping on the "interstitial space" of the interactions of the genome with various other factors? Oh, and the attacks on genetic "determinism," too. He also makes a bald-faced appeal to ignorance. Yes, there are hundreds of BRCA1 mutations. Yes, we don't know the significance of a lot of them. Those two observations, however, completely ignore the fact that we do know a lot about the significance and cancer risk associated with quite a few of those hundreds of BRCA1 mutations. Just because we don't know the significance of a lot of them doesn't mean we don't know the significance of any of them. We do. Then Ji just repeats the same q<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/02/11/epigenetics-you-keep-using-that-word-i-do-not-think-it-means-what-you-think-it-means/">uack view of epigenetics</a>, which is represented as a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/04/13/epigenetics-does-not-mean/">magic process</a> by which humans can completely control their health and biologic destiny, genes be damned. It's a dangerous delusion.</p> <p>There's a reason why Sayer Ji is dangerous. In my opinion, he advocates quackery, but he tries very hard to put a sheen of science on it. Because he is skilled at cherry picking the literature and seemingly "talking the talk" of biomedical research, he can sound quite convincing to lay people, even as real scientists who actually know something about the topics he's writing about cringe as they read his simplistic and misleading misrepresentations. Actually, we either cringe or we laugh (or both), but it's hard to laugh for too long at Ji's ignorance. The reason is that, as ridiculous as I find Sayer Ji, I know that that his advice, if followed, will lead to the preventable deaths of women with BRCA1 mutations.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Fri, 04/03/2015 - 00:45</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/angelina-jolie" hreflang="en">Angelina Jolie</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/brca1" hreflang="en">BRCA1</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/breast-cancer" hreflang="en">breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mastectomy" hreflang="en">mastectomy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/oophorectomy" hreflang="en">oophorectomy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ovarian-cancer" hreflang="en">ovarian cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sayer-ji" hreflang="en">Sayer Ji</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/medicine" hreflang="en">Medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292834" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428037567"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So to sum up, if you are diagnosed with breast cancer, it is not crucially important whether it resulted from BRCA1. But if you have BRCA1, you are at heightened risk of breast cancer. Meanwhile Sayer Ji lies a lot and would like to sell people his anti-cancer rock.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292834&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FvsIkBDuLVma8Vy1alJvtTg-ttB53wvBgyiY5ISfqlg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292834">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292835" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428040842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yep.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292835&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U7nNRytlVI7sIammrzsPEa7tAA49_EYJKKRomwlQgKM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292835">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292836" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428041170"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@HDB</p> <p>Sheesh! Think you could've used a few more words? Why can't you embrace brevity like Orac does?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292836&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZBzbGsC-d76tRgVfy3z8quvr7dtIOw3yljnERdoEGtU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292836">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292837" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428041235"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Sayer Ji, thinks he’s an expert at interpreting the biomedical literature</p></blockquote> <p>Ah, Sayer Ji. The man who advised diabetic people to stop taking insulin, because it is nowadays made in yeast or bacteria.</p> <p>@ hdb</p> <p>I believe you got the gist of it. Well, the last one was already common knowledge :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292837&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vhnvuMshovXwshAcPpVe9f7_74-polwD_yFcHi8l5mE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292837">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292838" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428041484"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"So to sum up, if you are diagnosed with breast cancer, it is not crucially important whether it resulted from BRCA1."</p> <p>Well, it appears it's not crucially important to your breast cancer prognosis, but obviously important relative to your risk of getting contralateral breast cancer or ovarian cancer, as well as important to relatives who may not know they are gene carriers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292838&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="luXCH5dZDeEfN0Lrx5rCjEygUjqMPPYc2FlEVDxFESw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292838">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292839" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428043304"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yes. BRCA1 mutation status influences decisions with respect to bilateral mastectomy and eventually oophorectomy, genetic counseling and testing of offspring, etc.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292839&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="daoUOk1hIw3O_hX3L7e8LiCNurp1ANoDI5C2aVy9wz8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292839">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292840" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428044015"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>What we think we know about the BRCA (Breast Cancer Susceptibility Associated)</p></blockquote> <p>This requires the underscores from the original in order to be fully appreciated.</p> <p>Then again, after about three paragraphs of the original I was starting to question my assumption that Ji is a native English speaker.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292840&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JkM43b8GwT7x_2Kyf5u7flUGYiUQsqAwNz2hwkFcps8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292840">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292841" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428044080"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sajer Ji is an expert at manipulating science to fit his conclusions. It is a fascinating example of motivated reasoning. He is not as obviously unhinged as Mike Adams and has attracted several cranks with credentials (like Dr. Kelly Brogan) to his cause. This makes him much more dangerous, than Mike Adams, as I believe most people can see that Adams is a crank. But Sayer blinds them with fancy science and threatens to sue his critics into silence. I am surprised this has not happened to you, Orac, and I hope it does not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292841&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="T4gIr3udsyY3BfEP-sZPRZ967JW0Kdo82AxMAlu8_aU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Yvette (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292841">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292842" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428044543"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is incredibly scary. I had to read up on this guy and his diabetes claims. It would lead into the same thing we see with chemotherapy; diabetics who failed to control using diet would be blamed for "not doing it right" with their diets when in fact diabetics who do everything "right" sometimes need to go on medication at some point in time.</p> <p>I couldn't help but notice his claims include the "GMO" tropes as well. Seems there isn't a conspiracy this guy doesn't like.</p> <p>And I really have to wonder: is this guy just reading the abstracts?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292842&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SGOqhipIWGQWxYGMncA7NMoJyT4PMSVITZMqTjGmPDU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292842">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292843" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428046303"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Then again, after about three paragraphs of the original I was starting to question my assumption that Ji is a native English speaker.</i></p> <p>I've always assumed he is an immigrant. His surname sounds Chinese to me (there is a scientist in my field with the same surname, and the latter is definitely Chinese). Depending on what transliteration system you use, his given name might be Chinese, too. Sayer Ji doesn't have a Wikipedia page (yet), so I don't know where he was born, but he is now in the US (specifically Naples, FL). The first page of Google results for him includes, along with his LinkedIn and Facebook pages, an Orac post about him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292843&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WcDtIbkaEKU1c9agu9XKJ88ITmanAYV6RMNyFjj2nBQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292843">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292844" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428047695"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Eric Lund:</p> <p>He has a bit of a bio ( on his bit of an education) @ Sayer Ji.com. At first I though that 'Ji' was a title of respect used by those with an Indian religious background but it appears that he is indeed 'D. Sayer Ji' as written on on his 'thesis' ( for a BA yet) from Rutgers U in.... wait for it, Philosophy. **</p> <p>He studied at a Zen monastery in NY and has a list of other supposed qualifications but surprisingly, no woo-bent or mail away PhD.</p> <p>Ji has recently joined in with Louise Habakus, Brogan and Lawrence Pavlevsky at Fearless Parent.com ( since MacNeil dropped out) and its eponymous PRN radio show. They will be keynote woo spewers at Autism One.</p> <p>Also Naples Florida is haunted by Gary Null who has a 30 acre estate there - which is -btw- for sale, reduced price, for a year or two.</p> <p>** although smart people often have that type of degree, I doubt he's one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292844&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m5Sc9vqBhXAiptwI9vVBGxbnW9DUwk2kN3qhP2Vsuzw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292844">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292845" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428047906"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, and he enjoys being in a drum circle.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292845&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DcMPHQewudva_YUNGDU7KcAQFtR1lx5bQI4l-nfOAII"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292845">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292846" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428048661"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A little more digging...<br /> it appears that the Fearless Ones are no longer on PRN ( it only has old shows) . Instead listeners are asked to use the new stylie phone radio rather than internet radio.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292846&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_Ksza6-NtmE9oZCLSL5UhvtfPJst7xFe00YPXCE8pis"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292846">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428048849"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ah, Florida. </p> <p>Charles Pierce, hands-down the funniest writer covering American politics, discussed "Florida Man" in another context and came up with this gem:</p> <blockquote><p> As if the biggest Medicare fraud case in history didn't tip us off already, Florida Governor Rick Scott is little more than Florida Man writ large and dressed better. Those who are aware of all Internet traditions know that Florida Man is profoundly self-explanatory. You say Florida Man, and your companion knows that all manner of hullabaloo and shenanigans are likely to follow, from a bank robbery to a busload of nuns fed to the burgeoning python community in the Everglades. Florida Man. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes's assessment of Dr. Watson, Florida man is the stormy petrel of criminal crazy. And, while Governor Batboy is Florida Man in a fine suit, in his heart, and increasingly in the public mind, he is running out his backdoor, barefoot, his mullet flapping in the breeze, with half the local sheriff's department and a film crew from Cops in pursuit, while the local DA wonders about the human heads in the icebox. </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xm0b8G4q2KNPuBxrCY15FHUGEMchgcgejgVCi4P5X-Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428062452"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>At first I though that ‘Ji’ was a title of respect used by those with an Indian religious background but it appears that he is indeed ‘D. Sayer Ji’ as written on on his ‘thesis’</p></blockquote> <p>Actually, it says "<a href="http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Backup-of-TwoPhilosophers09072008.pdf">Douglas S. E. Ji</a>" (PDF).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="94HvNPzXABdZu5q3DJ4xpN1zvmb1TigkObXcaUa1Tgc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428063536"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just to underscore what Orac said: The study on ovarian cancer reported in the JAMA article was a very large study designed to test the use of regular ultrasounds and CA-125 monitoring to detect ovarian cancer. The hope was that monitoring would catch ovarian cancer in its early stages, when it's curable. It didn't work, The strategy produced far too many false positives and resulted in far too many unnecessary surgeries. And the women diagnosed with ovarian cancer during the study were still diagnosed with late-stage cancer. The article does not represent standard practice. </p> <p>Anyone reading the JAMA article can see that it's a report on an experiment, not a critique on standard practice. Ji's comments on it are ridiculous.</p> <p>Ji's comments on borderline ovarian tumors (BOTS) are a joke. The genetic mutations that give rise to BOTS are very different from the mutations that result in high-grade ovarian cancer. The genetic distinctions have been known for years and the histological distinctions have been known for decades. Borderline tumors were over-treated 50 years ago. They are not over-treated today, nor are they counted as a BRCA-related condition. In fact, most statistics on ovarian cancer specifically omit borderline tumors -- the SEER database, for instance. Clinical trials for ovarian cancer exclude patients with borderline tumors. BOT diagnoses do not cause any skewing of ovarian cancer statistics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292849&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y6YizXaQbg6TESwe2vaq5DJ87Lcb2MzplvcYDhe2_eE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Yodel lady (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292849">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292850" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428064254"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Narad:</p> <p>The paper ( Independent Study) to which he links @ Sayer Ji.com./ Education Experience says "D. Sayer Ji" which in turn links to Green Med Crapo.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292850&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VsqtF0m8Wl97XhzZoAkykeMn5RV13yvlw3RNSts0DeI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292850">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292851" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428064892"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's a thought: Isn't removing the tissues that are most likely to be affected by BRCA1 just about the biggest epigenetic change possible? For some definition of epigenetic at least?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292851&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J3bbhEO9mkKcWQ6PMflPiX2wz2OHcAc5pMpAOhxWoiE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">justthestats (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292851">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292852" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428067303"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Denice</p> <p>The Florida property records confirm the Douglas.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292852&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FrcLUiwAmn4rpKoZrHGA4UYVdfPH7xNNazS_G9WZQC4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292852">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292853" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428068936"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Here’s a thought: Isn’t removing the tissues that are most likely to be affected by BRCA1 just about the biggest epigenetic change possible? For some definition of epigenetic at least?</i></p> <p>"We checked the biohazard bin, and the DNA in your ovaries definitely seems to be substantially demethylated. Also, they are beginning to smell."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292853&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TUuZdSjNu5-VKZAi6etccNUKTy-fGLkrF5F60K8Lrro"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Roadstergal (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292853">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292854" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428069810"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Narad:</p> <p>Heh. He probably thought it didn't sound hip enough.</p> <p>Whereas David, Daniel, Denis, Devon, Dylan, Desmond or Damon would be.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292854&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s_8PaVQ8hGhM5wCuPqV1ZkuTNjZloMqU9iPLevRhWHI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292854">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292855" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428071564"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice, I'd argue that having a last name as a first name lends a certain faux gravitas, which is what he was looking for. Which sounds better on a byline, Doug or Sayer?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292855&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aLixg0cLQs2byGK0eP10TtNKwYDNhMPAj8tW-1bP7NM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292855">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292856" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428073049"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ shay:</p> <p>Sure. But he also wanted to link to his thesis.<br /> So, "D" it was.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292856&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FLpGvE2P6vFx61nFinOOMVWPLO3NRuaGeg8OMumpVq0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292856">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292857" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428073623"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I was briefly hoping that it would prove to be something hopelessly fake such as "Dharma."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292857&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ntx9PlJZc3j_irBsbzUTooEZ_CGuHtbwq7pHYnOzZwQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292857">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292858" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428073874"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My thought EXACTLY.<br /> Or else 'Dhani' or suchlike.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292858&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eUyg0zxfeJvXfXRHPHYuj0BoH_aXRO07NuR9i_g4h_k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292858">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292859" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428074865"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sayer might not be perfect, but I find most of his information accurate. Whether or not genes have much to do with cancer is a side issue to what decisions he wants people to make. Sayer wants people to stop eating carcinogens for the most part and eat cancer fighting foods. He does much more good than harm. If someone were convinced that genetics have nothing to do with cancer risk, so what? I'm sure their decisions would be unaffected.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292859&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PHAyLlROc6e0ZjJqeQ8lRdolMqPwblkY3AbxPI9e6ao"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">njaohnt (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292859">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292869" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079331"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, Ji's information is <em>usually</em> accurate. It's how he <em>cherry picks</em> and <em>misinterprets</em> that information that's wildly deceptive and fallacious.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292869&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q6s9WfnFYysPKItPvuIZ7rKgCyVIQu8VISFve9mWHTY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292869">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1292859#comment-1292859" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">njaohnt (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292860" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428077881"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I deeply respect your work ORAC, but this meta-analysis does cast doubt upon popular notions of the penetrance of BRCA genes. I'm a skeptic, as you are, but in the sense that I rely on evidence not quack hypotheses. In this instance, Ji does reference compelling evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292860&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="29aBzXRsrRfam6GJE8I4WHn5tyDpdVmmmYFdi9cFF2o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292860">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292868" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079255"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No, it doesn't do anything of the sort. It doesn't even look at the penetrance of BRCA1 genes. What it does is to look at studies comparing outcomes between patients with breast cancer who do carry a deleterious BRCA1 mutation and patients with breast cancer who do not. It says nothing about the likelihood of BRCA1 mutations causing cancer.</p> <p>Do you even know what "penetrance" means? I don't think you do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292868&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="awDZVY3E9x-YrgHTchjjLsdamAZhL_wcWPt4APweXL0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292868">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1292860#comment-1292860" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292861" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428078052"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hello everyone. Here's an MD you may know, Christine Northrup harping on some of the same concerns. Can anyone here deconstruct her minimization of the BRCA genes' role in breast cancer? <a href="http://www.drnorthrup.com/the-other-side-of-angelina-jolies-double-mastectomy/">http://www.drnorthrup.com/the-other-side-of-angelina-jolies-double-mast…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292861&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vTTETSpguOzMSqZThX8WNQqWPtPHqfq-B_4Ev1OCGo0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Susan K (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292861">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292864" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079032"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Other than the bit about vitamin D and emotional issues, it's pretty much the same nonsense as Ji's claims. As for the rest of it, it's cherry picking and misrepresentation. Basically, I dealt with most of what she claims between this post an my previous post:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/03/26/the-quack-view-of-preventing-cancer-versus-reality-and-angelina-jolie-part-3/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/03/26/the-quack-view-of-preventi…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292864&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QN-P0Yoha92j1wBAXwoSeCTpDDyFa1UtFFse8c1Nj6c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292864">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1292861#comment-1292861" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Susan K (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292862" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428078331"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, meant to post the study itself: <a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0120189">http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0120189</a></p> <p>The conclusion is rather unequivocal: "Conclusions</p> <p>In contrast to currently held beliefs of some oncologists, current evidence does not support worse breast cancer survival of BRCA1/2 mutation carriers in the adjuvant setting; differences if any are likely to be small. More well-designed studies are awaited." Am hoping someone, if not ORAC himself, can elaborate further on how this meta-analysis doesn't cast doubt on BRCA's cancer-causing role. </p> <p>Thank you</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292862&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="64H4IOGIDfy5Gb_-ruYuv05OHbAJ0dQZrKs1vDYPzCA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292862">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292863" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428078804"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James. You sound like a quack. Didn't you read ORAC's article?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292863&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9E43kHsFN4ILCXo3FDpm1qhS3VLwJJ75ezcPZe1MJag"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292863">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292865" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079132"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James should note the term "in the adjuvant setting." That means with adjuvant therapy. Also, as I pointed out, this isn't the only meta-analysis; a better one published in January 2015 that looked at BRCA1 in breast and ovarian cancer disagrees. I even cited that meta-analysis. Silly James.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292865&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vs7b7Ra3zRZOGGjqfgt6viok4rQDS7i74pFEoPmFWos"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292865">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1292863#comment-1292863" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292866" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079217"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Really? Seems the climate here is to attack those who question the party line by pointing towards the evidence itself. Hate to say it, but that kinda makes me feel sympathetic for Ji, since he is at least focusing on research that challenges the status quo. Why can't we focus on the research itself and discuss its weaknesses instead of attacking those who are actually skeptics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292866&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="drlBjBIuWxR_GVewm5aSAdxigJzAdpBXLt9d6f0t97U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292866">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292873" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079545"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Your comments thus far in this thread do not give me the impression that you are a skeptic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292873&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SWXvIhk7qelmAdPYMEvgn_Tb45zJl7uT-5jMebY1z6M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292873">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1292866#comment-1292866" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292867" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079250"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks ORAC. That helps. I didn't get the point about adjuvant. Silly? Hmmm</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292867&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wC4qKkSyc1JdHv2HBlmEs8LSxHxH58vUyfvmKNoePMI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292867">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292870" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079372"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's a study I have been meaning to ask you about ORAC (take note Surgeon in Arms): <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21996169">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21996169</a></p> <p>"Because the cumulative incidence among controls did not reach that of the screened group, we believe that many invasive breast cancers detected by repeated mammography screening do not persist to be detected by screening at the end of 6 years, suggesting that the natural course of many of the screen-detected invasive breast cancers is to spontaneously regress."</p> <p>Seems like if this is possible, the entire viewpoint of BRCA and gene-determined disease should be reconsidered, no?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292870&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vSLAnjOLH7U9_xFMAvkQPoJOx3fd5VP4nCXO4uIfhrg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292870">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079811"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Holy hell you're obtuse. In the course of two posts, the first post from a week ago and this one, I explained exactly why studies showing a higher than desirable rate of mammographic overdiagnosis do not call into question the "entire viewpoint of BRCA1 and gene-determined disease." I explained it in a slightly different way in each post for two explanations.</p> <p>You do understand, don't you, that there's a huge difference between screening the general population for breast cancer (which is what that study you cited is about) and surveilling women with BRCA1 mutations that put them at a high risk of breast cancer? And that there's a big difference between using prophylactic surgery to prevent disease in patients at very high risk of that disease compared to screening a general population at a much lower risk for that disease?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mRcnQz54PIa02PXhnuQHUWBdFWty707mTFGXiblbPF0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1292870#comment-1292870" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292871" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079449"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>He seems to have fairly recently* "opted out" from having his Lee County <a href="http://i.imgur.com/M3HDuwe.png">mug shot</a> and arrest date listed on openpasts.</p> <p>This could be fun.</p> <p>* The March 16 <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:D0tUs9ymrQAJ:http://openpasts.com/publicrecord/jessica-lachancefrazier/774312701">G—le cache</a> still has a thumbnail entry, which is now gone.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292871&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_MPxSdL4kugiG_AFMiEEWTM1utEfgpKsFkYjFGfjaqM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292871">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292872" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079468"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yup, verified quack. Who cares what you have to say when you defend idiots.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292872&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VSWfc614EZalv3oLndE41YHoZ2OclnB_N9JI86p3o-I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292872">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079556"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James: Breast cancer is not epigenetic. You can't blame environmental exposures on SNPs - it's impossible. Also, this study about spontaneous tumor regression is bull. Not sure where you dug that crap up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TXKLRQP1AMVEra8lEpTu5QDT7YHkFfeQI73XDV-Wf6E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079584"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.dwihitparade.com/2015/03/18/florida-lee-county-sheriff-mike-scott-reports-dui-arrests-for-march-9th-thru-15th-2015-women-gone-wild/">Ding!</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="g16kwTLRP3BafFMnBNQxHkS1CPvN4vn2NEJSgb3SZNM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079666"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Seriously Surgeon? So Lancet Oncology is a low impact journal not worth recognizing?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xmp68CMY2aauy3pwWX-EerqOUgb45f1rffAuycHuk7s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079767"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James, what is your point? Are you saying the immune system can just destroy cancer at will? That's insane and dangerous. Don't you read ORAC's blog regularly? Ridiculous.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sFPLGN-QmH9O05IY7R0qqRHK-KCYM-zwxH4Jm4I4_kg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292879" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079820"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>All I am asking is that you tell me an alternative explanation for this Lancet study finding. Here is the whole thing: </p> <p>Lancet Oncol. 2011 Nov;12(12):1118-24. doi: 10.1016/S1470-2045(11)70250-9. Epub 2011 Oct 11.<br /> Natural history of breast cancers detected in the Swedish mammography screening programme: a cohort study.<br /> Zahl PH1, Gøtzsche PC, Mæhlen J.<br /> Author information<br /> Abstract<br /> BACKGROUND:<br /> The natural history of screen-detected breast cancers is not well understood. A previous analysis of the incidence change during the introduction of the Norwegian screening programme in the late 1990s suggested that the natural history of many screen-detected invasive breast cancers is to regress spontaneously but the study was possibly confounded by use of hormone replacement therapy in the population. We did a similar analysis of data collected during an earlier period when few women were exposed to hormone replacement therapy.</p> <p>METHODS:<br /> We compared cumulative breast cancer incidence in age-matched cohorts of women living in seven Swedish counties before and after the initiation of public mammography screening between 1986 and 1990. Women aged 40-49 years were invited to screening every year and women aged 50-74 years were invited every 2 years. A screened group including all women aged 40-69 years (n=328,927) was followed-up for 6 years after the first invitation to the programme. A control group including all women in the same age range (n=317,404) was also followed-up for 6 years--4 years without screening and 2 years when they entered the screening programme. Screening attendance was much the same in both groups (close to 80%). Counts of incident invasive breast cancers were obtained from the Swedish Cancer Registry (in-situ cancers were excluded).</p> <p>FINDINGS:<br /> Before the age-matched controls were invited to be screened at the end of their follow-up period, the 4-year cumulative incidence of invasive breast cancer was significantly higher in the screened group (982 per 100,000) than it was in the control group (658 per 100,000) (relative risk [RR] 1·49, 95% CI 1·41-1·58). Even after prevalence screening in the control group, the screened group had higher 6-year cumulative incidence of invasive breast cancer (1443 per 100,000 vs 1269 per 100,000; RR 1·14, 1·10-1·18).</p> <p>INTERPRETATION:<br /> Because the cumulative incidence among controls did not reach that of the screened group, we believe that many invasive breast cancers detected by repeated mammography screening do not persist to be detected by screening at the end of 6 years, suggesting that the natural course of many of the screen-detected invasive breast cancers is to spontaneously regress.</p> <p>FUNDING:</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292879&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="roVxWfVFlerAHP8ekM4nprhij_6LW36Pc4myU216oyQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292879">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292880" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428079889"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ORAC? Can you help me with this ridiculous study please. James is probably putting tin foil on his head as we speak.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292880&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sttRimUS-uWm6boaYvi_dcjHoCB87ZvEMqbqVOcmdoI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292880">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292881" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428080009"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am not saying that the immune system killed the cancer Surgeon. I'm just pointing out that the Lancet article states regression of tumors spontaneously is possible.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292881&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HHLE9b-PEcOwz6J1tuhCeDloqGKbr-v3VeYtiQJK-fQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Henrick (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292881">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292882" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428080150"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When we start asking questions like this it just distracts from the women who need help now: screening, gene testing, and good surgical and drug treatment are the only proven ways to help them. You suggesting they vitamin C?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292882&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gYd6b7DT_ykwHApdIzQyrnhWvCcc7_Mw42yacBpj-l0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292882">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292883" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428080231"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wonder how <a href="http://www.sheriffleefl.org/main/index.php?r=crimeActivity/inmateDetail&amp;id=331404356432900">the court date</a> went.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292883&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J_51aH5LOEqCZZXtDcF8KbJKCNaKHiY-y4nO_w0rrF0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292883">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292884" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428080338"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here's another one touting Natural Cures for BRCA ORAC: Dr. Dach who claims selenite normalizes BRCA mutations: "Angelina Jolie, surgical strategies for cancer prevention, and genetics denialism (revisited)" <a href="http://jeffreydachmd.com/2015/03/angelina-jolie-brca-gene/">http://jeffreydachmd.com/2015/03/angelina-jolie-brca-gene/</a></p> <p>ORAC - please look</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292884&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JtlCcyBJW8lx7O5RXAcwU4YVJMvwdf3i_ilyhrJVHeU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Surgeon in Arms (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292884">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292885" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428080480"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://apps2.leeclerk.org/FreeSearch/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=252517997">Here we go</a>. First offense* and he blew over a 0.150.</p> <p>* Inferences are left as an exercise for the reader.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292885&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="baReETp7bAIK4uV4XAsaJSjsHzJGmqZDdKrRC5_3B3I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292885">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292886" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428080770"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James @46: First, the screening frequency for the different age groups is a bit odd. Currently in the US older women are screened *more* often than younger women.</p> <p>But far more to the point, this study says *nothing* about women who are known to carry BRCA1 or BRCA2. women with these specific gene mutations are know to have different (much higher) risks of breast and ovarian cancer than the general population. Therefore the conclusions of this study (of the general population) are not applicable to women who carry BRCA1/2.</p> <p>Also, knowing about the BRCA1/2 genes doesn't say anything about the possibility of spontaneous regression of other cancers. Yes, the immune system is constantly working to get rid of cells that have gone off. But the evidence clearly shows that for women with the BRCA1/2 mutations, this doesn't work nearly as well as it does in women who don't carry these mutations. So it doesn't matter if sometimes tumors just go away by themselves if we know (we have mountains of evidence to show) that for people with these mutations, the risk of cancer is so much higher.</p> <p>It's not like there is only one cause of cancer. We are talking about something very specific, that can't be generalized to the whole population.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292886&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o1PHm_HBw4kGz41tJJ9qxP8iHBN8T4poxOwM35FZ35U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292886">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292887" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428081963"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Which BAC falls under <a href="http://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2011/316.193">Fla. Stat. ch. 316.193(4)</a> and all that follows. The terms of the license suspension are in chapter 322.</p> <p>Oh, but "Pretrial Disclosure Regarding App for Indigent Status Filed" apparently means that he tried to obtain a public defender.</p> <p>Oh, Jeezums, he's pled not guilty and wants a jury trial. This is terrific.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292887&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lqgLLJaLV28BPI0m2Z8s3MBzwVUOFN1SZn3nfoug86o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292887">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292888" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428082568"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No mullett? I'm disappointed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292888&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VT-aFnfW-mExe4G73MqUojz62rjJs60pHBsIP_EwFhY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292888">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292889" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428082779"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>He seems to have a good criminal defense lawyer, though. As-good-as-baseless speculation: he wants to cop to a non-DUI charge.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292889&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yUCdzucUjYIaCUp58GJnfbFG9sNos3wEGsUoCETSCn0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292889">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292890" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428082884"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The thing about the Lancet study is that it covered 1986 to 1990. How good was the screening then for cancer? What one person saw, another may not have seen 4 years later.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292890&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9BkMlzpSFRZDvc8zPaix3UM7orM_EemaggiBbMLoMsc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sandman2 (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292890">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292891" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428083542"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>ORAC? Can you help me with this ridiculous study please. James is probably putting tin foil on his head as we speak.</p></blockquote> <p>The study isn't BS. It's James' interpretation of the study that is BS, as is his attempt to shoehorn it into the discussion of BRCA1 mutations as though it had any relevance whatsoever.</p> <p>I've written about overdiagnosis on many occasions. For some background, see:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/11/10/rethinking-cancer-screening/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/11/10/rethinking-cancer-screenin…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/12/01/the-spontaneous-regression-of-breast-can/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/12/01/the-spontaneous-regression…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/07/20/overdiagnosis-of-breast-cancer-due-to-ma/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/07/20/overdiagnosis-of-breast-ca…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/06/16/cancer-overdiagnosis-and-overtreatment/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/06/16/cancer-overdiagnosis-and-o…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/02/17/the-canadian-breast-screening-study-attacked-why-do-doctors-have-such-a-hard-time-with-the-concept-of-overdiagnosis/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/02/17/the-canadian-breast-screen…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/14/how-not-to-protect-your-medical-turf/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/14/how-not-to-protect-your-me…</a></p> <p>There are quite a few other posts I've done on this issue. The study cited by James is of a piece with an evolving view that mammographic screening leads to overdiagnosis. What we argue about is just how much overdiagnosis.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292891&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NPEWxlLtaftb29W7d3W-Q6a_y8yl_JgUqWW45ooC3g0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292891">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292892" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428083574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>he tried to obtain a public defender.</i><br /> Online grifter pleads poverty? No-one could have expected that.<br /> It would be very wrong to go over to Greenmedinfo and ask for positive-thinking / epigenetic tricks for reducing blood-alcohol in a hurry.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292892&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8CtKD7KmOsXWhcgucyBKRKXX4cEDVLHtT06IVxXHW58"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292892">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292893" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428084375"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe it wasn't alcohol at all but an herbal product designed to assist you in escaping the physical emcumbrances of everyday life so your spirit can SOAR unimpeded. </p> <p>PLUS he weighs absolutely nothing for an adult man.</p> <p>-btw- some woo-meisters I survey loathe demon alcohol because it destroys millions of brain cells per drink.<br /> Although that doesn't explain their own cognitive issues.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292893&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iIfDSiusoKLqdlEYuRkRqIvQRwm3L5TMUkAnLeAv-84"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292893">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292894" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428084681"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James @#35: From 0 to CONSPIRACY!!1 in three posts! I think that might be some kinda record!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292894&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R12Dc4oXp1-YteeU5iYzE9lfSBenvJS3cMYle82BDbg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Chan Kobun, the Ghost-Who-Waddles">Chan Kobun, th… (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292894">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292895" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428084980"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"FINDINGS:<br /> Before the age-matched controls were invited to be screened at the end of their follow-up period, the 4-year cumulative incidence of invasive breast cancer was significantly higher in the screened group (982 per 100,000) than it was in the control group (658 per 100,000) (relative risk [RR] 1·49, 95% CI 1·41-1·58). Even after prevalence screening in the control group, the screened group had higher 6-year cumulative incidence of invasive breast cancer (1443 per 100,000 vs 1269 per 100,000; RR 1·14, 1·10-1·18)."</p> <p>So after six years <em>one tumor in six</em> had regressed and no one knows how to determine which will regress and which will do their best to kill the patient. </p> <p>Orac <em>has</em> written about this, you know. It's not news to him or regular readers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292895&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d6CeDTxRq9ul8gQXhGnsY7ZhHCU71PWebpl9Vrglfb8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292895">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292896" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428086231"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Online grifter pleads poverty? No-one could have expected that.</p></blockquote> <p>GMI requires "membership" in order to "unlock" the "print-friendly view." If he's rolling in the vault like a common Scrooge McDuck, it's not reflected in the domicile.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292896&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MB0SgLyzDg6p134VL_6mebIQqdJ9vdNtYUnJ6seP-po"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292896">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292897" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428086490"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice, #60</p> <p>I saw that too! 120 lbs at 5' 9"!<br /> Mon Dieu.<br /> And he's "white". Some kind of complex about his ethnic origins?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292897&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DDOYw9EdunaD8YaVdiGtkROLPMIX3TdAhpWTGOQfLt8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">darwinslapdog (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292897">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292898" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428087064"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So I suppose the next time Sayer whips up an organic green kale and kava smoothie for himself he'll leave out the 5 shots of non-GMO, gluten-free vodka.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292898&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gQog2xNIpazaIwodTfekjjbnINkM__5ht9ZTpgYkPeA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292898">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292899" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428087952"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am making an appointment for my overdue mammogram.<br /> Of course now JP will call me an a__hole for not having it sooner.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292899&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fwyojZCsjMaEa-qLXMw11_lUa9ZFiAHXtFl2LRE1Djw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ken (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292899">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292900" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428088030"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wish they handed out weed when I go.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292900&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SULjp1OIepHMqYEY-68Px61khUFtEpqRP4MUjLnWl28"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ken (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292900">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292901" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428088743"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Here we go.</p></blockquote> <p>Although the URL looked clear, I see that that link actually requires a session cookie (i.e., it doesn't work).* To find the docket, go <a href="http://apps2.leeclerk.org/FreeSearch/default.aspx">here</a>, choose "Criminal &amp; Traffic Case Records," and enter case number 15CT500965.</p> <p>The more complete charge description in the docket – as opposed to the sheriff's entry – leaves open the possibility that he wasn't <i>that</i> drunk, just above the limit and transporting a minor late at night on the 15th.</p> <p>* Another sign that something is off in my antakarana: some public-radio idiots just played – <i>without mockery</i> – a recording of one Alicia Keys quoting "Frederick Nietsche."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292901&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IwS-GH5A1OWVGG1GDhocs6nT5c3XKO0yG-jQa7tFVrM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292901">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292902" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428089129"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ "Nietzsche," dammit. Now I'm going be lumped in with the execrable Peter Sagal.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292902&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jNj5vi9RDUjKcUNt9YKgUWyEL8ISIpagM8bAJBtY1EI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292902">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292903" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428089326"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I am making an appointment for my overdue mammogram.<br /> Of course now JP will call me an a__hole for not having it sooner.</p></blockquote> <p>Um, no. That doesn't make any more sense than any of the rest of the nonsense you've been blathering on about.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292903&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nGKqiu54ynquJlUwRDsAX1J8OtgP_ufpJcvrIKvW66E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292903">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292904" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428089806"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>According to Fearless Parent, Ji has 2 children.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292904&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lmUZVDVjdOK8HdU0iYAP46RcCfCQxDVWzoDnWqP4LZc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292904">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292905" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428090966"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>To clarify from the perspective of a practicing medical oncologist... the study that Orac is discussing applies to patients that already have a biopsy proven cancer. There has been concern that patients who are BRCA carriers (particularly BRCA1) with confirmed cancer have a worse prognosis than patients with confirmed cancer who are not BRCA carriers. The meta-analysis suggests that the prognosis for these patients are likely similar when treated with appropriate combinations of definitive and adjuvant therapy. BRCA1 carriers in particular are more likely to develop triple negative breast cancers that have a worse prognosis when compared to the other major subsets of breast cancer (e.g. HER2 and the luminal A/B hormone receptor positive subsets). Therefore, anecdotally, BRCA1 carrying patients certainly strike the practicing medical oncologist as having a worse prognosis due to the prevalence of triple negative tumors. Everyone remembers the 30 year old patient who comes in with a huge inflammatory cancer and is dead within the year...</p> <p>This study does not in any way suggest that the risk for breast cancer and ovarian cancer in BRCA1 carriers is not the respective ~80% and ~40% risks that multiple studies have demonstrated. It most definitely does not suggest that these patients don't need aggressive treatment when diagnosed with a cancer. Nor does it in any way suggest that prophylactic surgery is overkill, and not a solid and appropriate recommendation in patients who carry the BRCA1 mutation.</p> <p>Hope that helps... and hope I'm not being too redundant.</p> <p>In regards to the Lancet study that James posted above, it is true that there is now some evidence that low grade ER/PR+ tumors in the elderly may not progress in some patients, and that they may actually regress in some and may not always require treatment. This is a situation akin to the numerous low grade prostate cancers we see in elderly men. Unfortunately, we have no way to decide who may or may not benefit from treatment. Triple negative tumors in younger patients are not something that you want to leave untreated, as they grow quickly, spread quickly, and cause death quickly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292905&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I2dLhsOg5f1da_rbhpv7bAX3l5o4KKVd3uZpZrjJv4U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">arthurdawg (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292905">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292906" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428097847"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>According to Fearless Parent, Ji has 2 children.</p></blockquote> <p>All the more reason for him not to have been going 105 in a 70 mph zone while above the legal limit.</p> <p>(Enter instead case 15TR017786.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292906&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nh5ZG_PqIVCSk2uV-gPu7umVpD4hv32IAt98QH70B_4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292906">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292907" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428098483"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeebus - reminds me of <i>my</i> mom.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292907&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1qeHk9y29MISIYF4JaHNGyFpzAskdD82IzAloJMNrpo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292907">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292908" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428099909"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>You heard it here first.</b></p> <p>It'd be entertaining if anyone picked it up, but the deeply discounted flat-cut corned beef at the end of the rainbow is neither more nor less than <i>bumptious legal threats</i>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292908&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iB3JgYA-x53q3aKdZhAKuSLPvtCMZ7C89SXw2x2Rh_8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292908">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292909" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428100559"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>PLUS he weighs absolutely nothing for an adult man.</p></blockquote> <p>I presume that's just what it says on his driver's license. There was no weigh-in the last time I had to renew mine.</p> <p>That would be about a 28-inch waist at that height if my high-school memory suffices. I doubt that a 42-year-old is really that scrawny, but it wouldn't excuse being a "cheap date" in any event.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292909&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dkb_Y9Mb8V3Q6nuSchS2QVdbR5u-r62kstN1-INngRA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292909">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292910" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428118152"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Surgeon in Arms #51</p> <blockquote><p>who claims selenite normalizes BRCA mutations:</p></blockquote> <p>Journeying to the Moon and having a chat with the locals sounds like fun, but I'm not sure I would let an extraterrestrial being mess-up with my genes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292910&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="atdORcVur7SjJKxsJoxj2zwg80oCjn2tqZ9Y6zAyQR4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292910">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292911" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428123897"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Surgeon in Arms #51, Helianthus#77 - in fact the linked site refers to selenium - which at least is terrestially available, although perhaps equally quacky.<br /> I can vouch for selenium sulphide shampoo being very effective against dandruff, although you smell of rotten eggs for some time afterwards.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292911&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fw2TPAPW-ZQlthwUlkpMMf6ptMSwGw5JdpI03vkzdvQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Peter Dugdale (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292911">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292912" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428124647"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>...Dach does refer to a sciency-looking study which seems to indicate that selenium may have some beneficial effect:<br /> <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20063075">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20063075</a><br /> Whether that justifies a recommendation for it like he promotes is another matter.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292912&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_5ZEP1dh3OfFQ9lWR3Cjd0ZI2AOmxrKQ4gh6y7jwGuQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Peter Dugdale (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292912">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292913" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428148247"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The development of 3D screening should help on the Tech part of the overdiagnosis problem.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292913&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uxGWgbrslbEnWrPr88Ld23ub1ZE-IoTVIqzn1m2lrdQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292913">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292914" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428153572"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re#76. Hate to kind of get off the subject of the original post, but I finally looked at your links. Whoo hooo!<br /> Anyway, any idea what kind of a car he was driving. Not that 105mph is horribly fast. Just wondering if his business is doing well enough to afford a Mercedes?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292914&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tbhWCRZSMgSzZLKrrNWt32TZO3Aeq9TK9LqZxQA8_BU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sandman2 (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292914">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292915" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428155217"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad has indicated that, judging by his digs, he's not really rolling in dough or anything, so I doubt it was a Mercedes. In any case, 105 mph is well within the reach of, say, a 1999 Oldsmobile*, or most cars, really.</p> <p>*The particular car I'm thinking of no longer exists. Nice job, mom.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292915&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7kcZgJgJmfB0WB8EHctoOzWG0-O9Hlgh6UBzcNKEYEw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292915">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292916" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428158195"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Al Gore's kid was arrested for going 100 mph in a Prius; that's apparently near the top speed.</p> <p><a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2007/07/yesa_prius_goes_100_mph.html">http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2007/07/yesa_…</a></p> <p>I'm more into MPG than MPH, myself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292916&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UfU9N6J71NKGHWPNqqZaFNOfxMTIT-pnCKaBsOlg7rw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292916">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292917" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428175313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm an ordinary 57-year-old female--not a BRCA1 carrier and not someone who has ever been diagnosed with any cancer. It's beginning to bug me that my family practitioners have both told me more about the possibility of spontaneous regression of cancers generally than I ever remember hearing before, and when I've asked about genetic testing because of an unknown breast cancer type in a close relative, I was actively discouraged. What gives? They are also starting to harp a bit on overuse of mammograms and overdiagnosis in general. I'm wondering whether there's some pushback by primary care docs because of these various controversies. They seem much more casual about many issues related to all this now. Is it that female patients my age are overreacting and they are getting tired of calming people down who may have no unusual risks? Confused....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292917&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2DC-a09mjTc5NfAbRcfbk5S8Al00DAEPz1Jo-URMQrc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sara (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292917">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292918" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428181131"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would offer that they are concerned that you fit more into the risks associated from an improper intervention(s) from a false alarm than that of developing cancer itself.</p> <p>It's a valid concern.</p> <p>The guidelines I have offer imaging every 1-2 years. </p> <p>I think the 3D technologies are really going to help in differentiating normal from abnormal tissues. With only 2D, normal tissue can stack on each other and look like a problem area, when indeed it may not be.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292918&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ojD_wmJtT0rhJi0aHm4rx_XodSS8YZvG5obR7KJO4Bc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292918">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292919" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428193855"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad - I rather like Peter Sagal.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292919&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KwiZV4y-DbRgxkfTHAc_yoZWoyzjtXkXjEehnTXBihw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 04 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292919">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292920" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428234584"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey Orac, Mike Adams has said the Germanwings crash was caused by psychiatric meds. <a href="http://www.donotlink.com/www.naturalnews.com/049137_Germanwings_depression_antidepressant_drugs.html">http://www.donotlink.com/www.naturalnews.com/049137_Germanwings_depress…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292920&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hEGh06WJIvMY-8h112AUBfOhQsS6U7N4THDSWF0EuOk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nianbo (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292920">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292921" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428235316"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Nianbo</p> <p>T'was to be expected. Psy meds is one of Mike's pet peeves.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292921&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qTyFUo_iQg-CUgydI4GzCe8d1V488X7-INUoCKM3l78"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292921">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292922" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428236840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mikey, like many other woo-meisters, believes that anti-depressants cause depression and anti-psychotics cause psychosis. Meds cause mental illness. They have an axe to grind against psychologists, too.<br /> I wonder why?</p> <p>For even more of Mad Mike, see Thursday's 'Wheel of Intolerance' post wherein he discusses the "outrageous bigotry of the left" who are intolerant of Christians, white men, southerners ( US only), gun owners, soldiers, veterans, pro-life advocates, home schoolers, small business owners, anti-vaxxers and libertarians like him. Poor Mikey!</p> <p>I am especially taken by he illustration of a woman ( seen spinning the wheel) .I wonder who SHE is supposed to be?<br /> -btw- I like her outfit and would definitely wear it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292922&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_v5Y-vQxv-5uhH_jsjTB1ejhN3snkHsxYNQCQFT5A_g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292922">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292923" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428239111"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Mikey, like many other woo-meisters, believes that anti-depressants cause depression and anti-psychotics cause psychosis. Meds cause mental illness. They have an axe to grind against psychologists, too.<br /> I wonder why?</p></blockquote> <p>I dunno - I've wondered about what you're insinuating when it comes to, say, L Ron Hubbard*, but even there, I think he was more of a genius level <i>sociopath</i> if anything, and he resented psychiatry because it was a competitor with his auditing scheme.</p> <p>I mean, it takes certain degree of self-awareness and tendency to introspection to seek out the services of a psychologist, and I don't see much evidence of any of that in people like Mike Adams. The whole anti-psych-meds thing seems to me just another aspect of the anti-medicine attitude of the woo-meisters in general. </p> <p>Psych meds do get singled out as being especially bad in a lot of alternative communities; I can't count how many rants I've heard from my beloved counter-cultural types about kids being "doped" with ADHD, or SSRIs being pushed on Americans to make us all "numb" and blind us to the destructive and depressing nature inherent in the capitalist-military-industrial system we live in.</p> <p>I mean, there certainly <i>are</i> legitimate criticisms to be made of psychiatry. I do think SSRIs are over-prescribed, and probably things like Ritalin too - though I don't know as much about ADHD issues - but what I find particularly worrisome is the near explosion in the use of atypical anti-psychotics for all kinds of off-label indications, anxiety, depression, PTSD, dementia, you name it. I mean, these are heavy duty drugs with serious side effects, and I really don't see any justification for their use outside of treating actual psychotic disorders.</p> <p>*I believe I've seen some evidence that Mike Adams was a Scientologist back in the day, actually, or at least associated closely with them, which might explain part of his anti-psychiatry BS as well.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292923&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s2Bs7htzK5BSQYmTqSR4pempYNulYRcj00v92Mnr_T0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292923">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292924" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428239205"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I am especially taken by he illustration of a woman ( seen spinning the wheel) .I wonder who SHE is supposed to be?<br /> -btw- I like her outfit and would definitely wear it.</p></blockquote> <p>The thing that cracks me up about Mikey using a cartoon of Rachel Maddow as an example of this "liberal bigotry," which supposedly includes bigotry against veterans, is that Maddow describes herself as a "national security liberal" and is in fact very concerned about all kinds of veterans' issues. Rather more than Mike Adams is, I imagine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292924&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_LBIITLGkpaH0AN1wFXuxTUtwQZWyDgz3okRY1CoRDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292924">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292925" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428242065"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JP:</p> <p>Woo-meisters - esp Null- promote *specific* products ( and diets) to ameliorate symptoms that most people would identify as being associated with mental illness ( see 'Mellow Fellow') or LD/ ASD. Mike isn't quite so clear about the uses of diverse vitamins, minerals and herbals he markets. It's interesting to look at any of these charlatans' web stores and see their wares. (and lately, boner pills are big/ and women's formularies)</p> <p>Orthomolecular psychiatry, upon which GN's approach is based, purports that niacin and other supplements are vastly superior to meds. There are also recommendations involving minerals ( magnesium esp) and use of herbs like St John's Wort , Valerian et al.</p> <p>Orac did discuss Mikey's possible relationship to Scientology.<br /> A fabulous minion sent a film clip of "Mike" singing.</p> <p>And yes, I included that Liberal cartoon character just for you</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292925&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y6H3lu4yNaDIWtebj0LWaJcnApn2oFg7sE_RGKkDmZg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292925">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292926" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428259896"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JP may be thinking of the following RI article concerning Mike Adams and Scientology:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams-it-all-become/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292926&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5gm4wr8VlBSoDaZaFDD1F3FaIlBkVo39eFfVJrJ_BbM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292926">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292927" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428270217"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>but what I find particularly worrisome is the near explosion in the use of atypical anti-psychotics for all kinds of off-label indications, anxiety, depression, PTSD, dementia, you name it. I mean, these are heavy duty drugs with serious side effects, and I really don’t see any justification for their use outside of treating actual psychotic disorders.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/index.cfm/search-for-guides-reviews-and-reports/?productid=786&amp;pageaction=displayproduct">http://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/index.cfm/search-for-guides-reviews…</a></p> <p>^^I'd call that justification for the potential use of atypicals as adjunctive therapy for depression, PTSD, and OCD and as a primary therapy for dementia. And since Seroquel is probably a safer treatment for anxiety than a benzo would be, that too. </p> <p>And they're mostly prescribed at what would be subtherapeutic doses for psychosis when used off-label anyway. It's not like they have fixed, heavy-duty properties.</p> <p>I mean, as with most psychotropics,a lot of people don't like taking them. But that's not always a problem. And assuming it isn't, what makes them unjustified?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292927&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VlRNKBzJnIPIe2oJX0TI9-ea53LbnF5T3SCUOylv-2w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ann (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292927">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292928" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428273744"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Regarding dementia, I notice that the review you linked to states that they're effective in reducing <i>behavioral</i> symptoms of dementia. One of the things that gives me pause about the use of these drugs is that they seem to be used, more often than not, as <a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/12/08/368524824/old-and-overmedicated-the-real-drug-problem-in-nursing-homes">chemical restraints</a> in settings like nursing homes. It's <i>true</i> that a lot of people don't like taking them, and they usually have reasons for that - they're sedating, they feel "blunting," you tend to gain weight on them, etc. So I think if somebody doesn't want to take them, that's valid, but there's a pretty large power differential going on in places like nursing homes, and I imagine there might well be plenty of people who don't want to be taking those mediations but for various reasons aren't exactly having their voices heard about it.</p> <p>It's true that there are big risks to benzos, but I can't help but see SSRIs as a better choice there, given that they're quite effective as anti-axiolytics and have much lighter side effect profiles. It's true that they can take a while to kick in - several friends of mine with anxiety disorders started on SSRIs and were given one PRN script for a benzo to use until the SSRI kicked in. </p> <p>I mean, antipsychotics are, including in the review you linked to, associated with increased death rates in the elderly, increased risk of cerebrovascular accidents, weight gain, definitely sedation.</p> <p>The "Remaining Issues" section also leaves one feeling that actual evidence about dosage, length of treatment, etc., is thin to non-existent.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292928&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sSw-tfp3HLuSagHBSBHmWIFom0oO75ry_-pOmiMo7og"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292928">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292929" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428274153"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Bah, typos. The review you linked to does seem to indicate, in any case, that any efficacy for off-label uses of atypicals is <i>limited</i>:</p> <blockquote><p>The overarching finding of this review is that although atypical antipsychotic medications are used for a large number of off-label indications, there is moderate to strong evidence of efficacy for only a few of the drugs and for only a few of the off-label indications. </p></blockquote> <p>I mean, if supplementing with an antipsychotic can help somebody with severe, treatment resistant depression, or intractable PTSD symptoms, and they go into it knowing all the risks involved, and they feel like the decision is theirs and not somebody else's, and the evidence shows that it can help, I'm all for it. But I feel a little bit weird about all the direct-to-consumer advertising I've been seeing in magazines and suchlike over the past few years for drugs like Abilify which make them seem like mild antidepressants and nothing more. I mean, I'm kind of weirded out by direct-to-consumer advertising of pharmaceuticals in general, for that matter. Yay, America. (And New Zealand, I think?)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292929&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YeiihZtCGnlQmU2_G3OcJejg-Kn3zyYoynVoozbLKJM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292929">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292930" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428277008"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@James #46</p> <p>Perhaps you would be more comfortable at dailykos.com where they actively promote the wild eyed enthusiast who runs around screaming and waving a paper he can not even begin to understand.</p> <p>Orac properly identified you as obtuse. This characteristic is valuable in the activist who need only be utterly convinced of the righteousness in his cause, the accuracy of his beliefs being secondary if not irrelevant. We in the Science community have different standards and value different characteristics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292930&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fGZZBH7_Cj676GBHnkz35GB0bo6qaLqFch7pas7lEEo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert L Bell (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292930">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1292931" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428277364"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Susan K #30</p> <p>Christiane Northrup, the astrologist?</p> <p><a href="http://www.drnorthrup.com/astrology-doctor-are-you-kidding/">http://www.drnorthrup.com/astrology-doctor-are-you-kidding/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1292931&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yBUhnEEHvmTdEFslOtX98Z8LvXazXu-ZG2qVjW1JBys"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert L Bell (not verified)</span> on 05 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2889/feed#comment-1292931">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2015/04/03/the-quack-view-of-preventing-cancer-versus-reality-and-angelina-jolie-part-4%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 03 Apr 2015 04:45:14 +0000 oracknows 22022 at https://scienceblogs.com