genetics of normal variation https://scienceblogs.com/ en What can you learn from a whole genome sequence? https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2010/04/29/what-can-you-learn-from-a-whol <span>What can you learn from a whole genome sequence?</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-c77ca584065fb20ce303adb4efc0b9ba-people_quake.jpg" alt="i-c77ca584065fb20ce303adb4efc0b9ba-people_quake.jpg" />A <a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)60452-7/fulltext">paper just released in the </a><i><a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)60452-7/fulltext">Lancet</a></i> describes a thorough and integrated approach to squeezing as much clinically relevant information as possible out of a genome sequence. However, despite a state-of-the-art clinical interpretation pipeline, the major message from the paper is just how far we still have to go before we can make full use of our genetic information. </p><div></div> <div>The paper is based on the genome of Stephen Quake (right), which was <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nbt.1561">sequenced</a> using the single-molecule platform developed by Helicos (I wrote about <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/08/first_human_genome_sequenced_u.php">Quake's genome publication</a> at the time). This is a rather curious choice: of all of the genome sequences currently available for analysis, Quake's is one of the least complete and accurate due to the very short reads and high error rates of the Heliscope. It's also interesting to note that at least one of the other authors on the paper - George Church - has <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/327/5961/78">a substantially better-quality sequence of his own genome</a> (generated by Complete Genomics) in the public domain. </div> <div></div> <!--more--><div>Nonetheless, Quake's genome it is. The authors throw everything they can at the sequence, bringing in information from databases of both common and rare disease-associated variants and variants affecting drug metabolism, as well as family history and various clinical tests. </div> <div></div> <div>There are some genuinely intriguing results: three independent rare mutations in genes associated with sudden cardiac death (although one of these is later shown to be probably benign), and - integrated across the full available set of common risk markers - high lifetime risks for three actionable conditions, myocardial infarction, type 2 diabetes and obesity. Based on Quake's risk predictions, his physicians decided to recommend a lipid-lowering drug (which, incidentally, he would be predicted to respond positively to based on variants in drug-metabolising genes).</div> <div></div> <div>That's a tantalising glimpse into the future of personalised medicine using genetic information. Still, <b>it's important to remember what this analysis is missing</b>. Firstly, there's the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/08/first_human_genome_sequenced_u.php" style="text-decoration: underline; ">more than 10% of the genome that can't be accessed at all using Helicos' short-read technology</a>; some of this can't currently be analysed by <i>any</i> of the currently available sequencing technologies (although most would do a substantially better job than Helicos, it must be said).</div> <div></div> <div>But more importantly, there are the variants that simply can't be interpreted. This includes virtually everything seen outside protein-coding regions, and the majority of even those variants found inside coding regions. We simply don't understand the biology of most genes well enough yet to be able to predict with confidence whether a novel variant will have a major impact on how that gene operates; and we have an even less complete picture of how genes work together to affect the risk of disease.</div> <div></div> <div>That means that the real benefit of whole-genome sequencing over other assays - the uncovering of truly novel or rare genetic variants - has much less of an impact than it should, because in most cases it's impossible to assign function to such variants. Indeed, it's striking in this study that <b>the really compelling, actionable findings - the increased risk of myocardial infarction and metabolic diseases, and the drug metabolism effects - come largely from common variants</b>, most of which would be captured by chip-based assays such as that used by 23andMe. (The two rare variants potentially linked to sudden cardiac death are intriguing, and warrant extra surveillance, but don't yet appear to be compelling risk factors.)</div> <div></div> <div>The authors should be commended for their efforts in bringing a wealth of functional annotation and clinical interpretation together for this study, but it's clear we have a lot further to go before we can extract everything of value from a genome sequence.</div> <div></div> <div></div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Thu, 04/29/2010 - 15:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/helicos" hreflang="en">helicos</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/whole-genome-sequencing" hreflang="en">whole-genome sequencing</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462545" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272572129"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Daniel,<br /> Hmmmm. This will be the quandry for 10 years, 20 max. Time to dig into EnSembl and Zebrafish.....hmmm, conserved region....hmmmm ok, maybe that's bad.....hmmm, what's your cholesterol?</p> <p>-Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462545&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dIuHoBq9dNP3gJBkjSUeWf8grElHsblDvmZYm40p3FI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thegenesherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 29 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462545">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462546" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272578246"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow, I had no idea we were that far along in this. I figured all the stuff about certain health risks being genetically conditioned was simply based on large-scale studies, not knowledge of the actual specific genes involved. Seems like we'll live to see the day when newborn kids can get some serious medical-prediction stuff (if I'm not mistaken). Neat!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462546&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NkUwKkLoaSlNS-3p2za122LZk2lVMbQ13aO6bIyGwkM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://lenoxus.pbworks.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lenoxus (not verified)</a> on 29 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462546">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462547" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272588635"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's an interesting paper. Whole genome sequencing will be interesting for many reasons (particularly I think for human migration history) but it will be the variation scans that will be clinicaly useful whether for SNPs, indels, CNVs etc. Technology is steaming ahead but the biology can't move so quickly. Over 5 years of GWAS we have gone from a few $million per genome to a few $thousand but have not YET made much dent in gene based disease prediction (and I don't believe - re MCK - that 5 years of deep sequencing rare SNP search will be the answer either) - so you're final paragraph is spot on</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462547&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lc5CtEQYiJ8b6mn0L0o_KAYSiqo4TbUCTonrpiTOBNg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eurogene.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">keith grimaldi (not verified)</a> on 29 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462547">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462548" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272613222"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I agree! I seriously doubt we will garner much more information about disease risk from genome sequencing than from GWAS studies. Until we have a better understanding of all the epigenetic and other genetic mechanisms (which are likely influenced by environmental exposures) which affect gene expression/translation etc over time, I suspect we will only be making little baby steps in finding specific factors involved in causing high disease risk. Great summary!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462548&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GLKy2dOzNJCddRmRb8qSw3oHxIowB416aMZ5_M0anb8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Susan Colilla (not verified)</span> on 30 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462548">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462549" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272632359"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>bring it on !</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462549&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oB4VwfYddHGcKsT_0bGQ7U0KWyqIOm-ByjYIFqJ-W8E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">100M1D99M (not verified)</span> on 30 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462549">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462550" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272669770"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'll bet you he has a malaria susceptability gene and if you treated him for lymes disease with doxycyline. He would get fat and have a heart attack from chronic babesiosis. Wilson and Chowning saw this in the Bitter Root Valley in 1905 ---- human piroplasmosis. They got run out of town and the cattle got treated. Good history --real history. Allergy and Immunology? No -- people dying from endemic disease. They saw a tick borne version of malaria back in 05 that still hasn't gotten proper recognition today. Babesia Microti, WA-1, MO-1, CA-1 --- we have very specific tests for those today --- but to convince your gatekeeper to look? You'll get thorazine before doxy. and guess what the nobel prize in medicine was awarded for in 1927? Creating thorazine to treat people with malaria and syphylis. </p> <p>Thank God for Zyrtec!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462550&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H37nnAfU11m-BdQHuyPBPEAuFgvSSd4tkyXSqhZgCis"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rand (not verified)</span> on 30 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462550">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462551" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272742337"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I see about 5 patients per week who do not know at least half of their family history. Genetic testing TODAY is cost effective for them; in the future, it will be ILLEGAL not to.</p> <p>I'm tired of the nay-sayers who want to live in the past: genetic testing is here to stay. Period.</p> <p>And yes, the marginal utility of a WGS does not merit the massive increase in cost relative to a SNP chip. But that is always subject to revision as the cost curve progresses.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462551&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pw_ELUQE7e9u31rYOBEo9lg-yL6b38Gz1kozvUD5aos"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Afterthought (not verified)</span> on 01 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462551">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462552" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1273023591"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Daniel,</p> <p>Any comment on the MS twin study published in Nature?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462552&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EG662XsKihOOGktGzTJAJII9D2G-rdBNO1wX-370giQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">che (not verified)</span> on 04 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462552">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462553" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1273480096"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Steve "....hmmm, what's your cholesterol?"</p> <p>What Steve advocates is an "occam's razor" of clinical application.</p> <p>A genetic risk factor is not relevant when the factor itself can be directly tested. For example, if a patient complains of hypertension-like symptoms, you confirm a diagnosis with a sphygmomanometer, and then you treat the hypertension. A genetic test for a risk of hypertension would be redundant as the probability that the patient has hypertension is already "1.0".</p> <p>However, if the genetic test informed us at some higher resolution about some malfunctioning biochemical pathway which caused the hypertension symptoms, and that information was necessary in some optimal clinical decision ---that would be useful. I'm not aware of any such application in this case.</p> <p>People hope that DNA will have all the answers to good health. The problem is that those answers are not well translated into the language of medicine ---or for that matter, humans. "Hypertension" in medicine is about as descriptive as "rocky" is in astronomy. ("ICD-9 401.9: Unspecified essential hypertension" is about as descriptive as "a solid, rock-like mass")</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462553&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pyXdnkMkcSNMK5SZx2jNzasQtuwYGziK2PQDBWKxkoI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://thinkgene.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 10 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462553">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462554" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1273480512"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Afterthought "I see about 5 patients per week who do not know at least half of their family history. Genetic testing TODAY is cost effective for them; in the future, it will be ILLEGAL not to."</p> <p>*Illegal* not to? This is both terrifying and terrifying. By this same logic, it's cost effective to get your blood pressure. Should it also be illegal not get a regular blood pressure?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462554&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Rs-tzTnJpDuMQUBiqQLxk2DcJ39dsxK-LpksAAFLqg4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://thinkgene.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 10 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462554">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462555" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1273522478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The didn't perform a physical exam, they didn't do a HGBA1c, no PSA, looks like the didn't do a clinical assessment, just played with genome browsers and sequencers. How is that medicine? <a href="http://thegenesherpa.blogspot.com/2010/05/personal-genomes-in-clinical-care-quake.html">http://thegenesherpa.blogspot.com/2010/05/personal-genomes-in-clinical-…</a></p> <p>The answer, it is not.</p> <p>-Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462555&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RAtxM1irssBuDhW-bmr9Aj1d6WbN0W_BR3ecWHdX7Vk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thegensherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 10 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462555">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462556" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1273522588"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@afterthought</p> <p>You actually see patients and had a comment like that?<br /> It is truly scary a clinician would suggest it illegal to refuse a test. What's next, Death Panels? Nice.......</p> <p>-Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462556&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8Pa30bwmroM3wKmHZrISHe6DKSbQb2JhHW_TuVRvgN0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thegensherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 10 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462556">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462557" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1273770225"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ afterthought,<br /> The possibility of using genetic testing to obtain a family history from a patient who can't is something to look forward to someday, but unless I am mistaken, here in the US we can't force anyone to be tested. As it is right now, most people would find the cost prohibitive, and good luck trying to get your HMO to pay for it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462557&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H4myV5_ZQfeZgrINy8SM-fdAxInsY19Yz9AL6yeY5D8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rita Truex (not verified)</span> on 13 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462557">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2010/04/29/what-can-you-learn-from-a-whol%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:00:00 +0000 dgmacarthur 140420 at https://scienceblogs.com 23andMe gets scooped on hair curl genes https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/11/11/23andme-gets-scooped-on-hair-c <span>23andMe gets scooped on hair curl genes</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><span class="Z3988" title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&amp;rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&amp;rft.jtitle=The+American+Journal+of+Human+Genetics&amp;rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1016%2Fj.ajhg.2009.10.009&amp;rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fresearchblogging.org&amp;rft.atitle=Common+Variants+in+the+Trichohyalin+Gene+Are+Associated+with+Straight+Hair+in+Europeans&amp;rft.issn=00029297&amp;rft.date=2009&amp;rft.volume=&amp;rft.issue=&amp;rft.spage=&amp;rft.epage=&amp;rft.artnum=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0002929709004649&amp;rft.au=Medland%2C+S.&amp;rft.au=Nyholt%2C+D.&amp;rft.au=Painter%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=McEvoy%2C+B.&amp;rft.au=McRae%2C+A.&amp;rft.au=Zhu%2C+G.&amp;rft.au=Gordon%2C+S.&amp;rft.au=Ferreira%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Wright%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Henders%2C+A.&amp;rfe_dat=bpr3.included=1;bpr3.tags=Biology%2CGenetics">Medland <i>et al</i>. (2009). Common Variants in the Trichohyalin Gene Are Associated with Straight Hair in Europeans. <span style="font-style: italic;">The American Journal of Human Genetics</span> DOI: <a rev="review" href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2009.10.009">10.1016/j.ajhg.2009.10.009</a></span> </p><div> <hr /> <div></div> <div>A couple of weeks ago <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/10/23andme_presents_novel_genetic.php">I reported on a presentation</a> by <a href="https://www.23andme.com/">23andMe</a>'s Nick Eriksson at the American Society of Human Genetics meeting in Honolulu, in which Eriksson presented data on a series of genome-wide association studies performed by the company using genetic and trait data from its customers.</div> <div></div> <div>Along with genetic analysis of a variety of other traits (such as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparagus#Urine">asparagus anosmia</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photic_sneeze_reflex">photic sneeze</a>) Eriksson presented data on two novel regions significantly associated with hair curl, one close to the <i>TCHH </i>gene and a second near <i>WNT10A </i>(see <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/10/off_to_hawaii.php">the abstract</a> for details). I noted at the time that 23andMe appears to be doing a pretty good job of running genome-wide association studies, although of course the real test of this is independent replication.</div> <div></div> <div>Well, now we have replication (of a sort) for at least two of 23andMe's novel findings - but unfortunately for the 23andMe crew the "replication" study has beaten them into print.</div> <div></div> <div></div> </div> <!--more--><p>In this week's issue of <i>American Journal of Human Genetics</i> an Australian group report <a href="http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297(09)00464-9">a genome-wide association study of hair curl</a> that uncovered both of the novel regions picked out by 23andMe's scan (the very strong TCHH association is the headline finding, while WNT10A is mentioned briefly later in the text). </p><div></div> <div>In a sense this is good news for 23andMe, in that it's good, independent evidence that the company's novel associations are robust. However, it's also bad news: not only has the company been scooped on the hair curl findings, but this is a clear illustration that there are few phenotypic niches sufficiently obscure for 23andMe to be able to work safely without worrying about competition from academic consortia. </div> <div></div> <div>The Australian group that produced the hair curl study (led by <a href="http://genepi.qimr.edu.au/staff/?staffusername=nickM">Nick Martin</a>) has both the resources and the expertise to churn through the same sorts of commonly variable non-disease traits that 23andMe is well-powered to analyse, as their <a href="http://genepi.qimr.edu.au/general/publications.cgi?allpublications=1">publication list</a> illustrates. Other rivals have even greater capacity for scoopage: ailing biotech deCODE, for instance, has genetic and detailed trait data for a hefty chunk of the Icelandic population that can easily be used to unravel the genetic architecture of whatever common trait it decides to turn its attention to.</div> <div></div> <div>One major advantage that 23andMe possesses over any of its rivals is a highly actively involved participant base, many of whom will remain available and willing to answer online surveys and purchase additional genetic tests so long as the company can keep drip-feeding them interesting nuggets of genetic information about themselves.</div> <div></div> <div>Is that enough to maintain a profitable business? The two waves of lay-offs (one in June, and a more recent one in <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/29/layoffs-confirmed-at-23andme/" style="text-decoration: underline; ">October</a>) and the <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/04/23andme-founder-linda-avey-leaves-to-start-alzheimers-research-foundation/">recent departure of co-founder Linda Avey</a> from the company suggest that there may be some uncertainty about that even within 23andMe. Still, there's little question that the company has done more to establish the personal genomics industry than anyone else, and it's still far better-placed than either of its two major rivals, <a href="www.decodeme.com/">deCODEme</a> and <a href="http://www.navigenics.com/">Navigenics</a>. There are big changes coming in personal genomics, but I don't expect to see 23andMe toppled from its pedestal any time in the near future. </div> <div> <p><a type="application/rss+xml" href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture"></a><a href="editor-content.html?cs=utf-8"><img alt="rss-icon-16x16.jpg" src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" height="16" width="16" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>. <br /><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-1e8735341225e739a7862450baf40589-twitter-icon-16x16.jpg" alt="i-1e8735341225e739a7862450baf40589-twitter-icon-16x16.jpg" /> <a href="http://twitter.com/dgmacarthur">Follow Daniel on Twitter</a>. </p> <p> </p> </div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:15</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/23andme" hreflang="en">23andMe</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genome-wide-association-studies" hreflang="en">genome-wide association studies</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/personal-genomics" hreflang="en">personal genomics</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/social-sciences" hreflang="en">Social Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462110" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1257964599"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Is it not expected to be 'scooped' at some time especially in such a competitive field? Methinks, 23andMe are getting a taste of what it's like for all other researchers out there!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462110&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s4Wy-_6cxAUJmfZwG_hLXdbmxRyfo4s5xZoW3nf4npA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">mell (not verified)</span> on 11 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462110">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462111" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1257967026"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Has anybody out there actually purchased any of the DTC testing? What is the experience like? What do you learn? How much does it cost? Do you have to take the info to a genetics counselor or physician trained in genetics or anybody who can actually interpret these data? And then what? Interested in hearing from anybody who has personal experience with this stuff. Do you really *spit* into something? (Yuck!)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462111&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BLYtxMevU4_EbHcZxlE4XDFSBY3slpcrFC1WpCEQFWs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Catharine (not verified)</span> on 11 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462111">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462112" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1257969492"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Daniel,<br /> What are the big changes in personal genomics that are coming?<br /> -Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462112&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="St-up_y6ctkMBeVGGSVjIQ8rlLHyIzY3fbV8xuSmWr0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thegensherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 11 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462112">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462113" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1257977244"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Catherine I just got my report from 23andme a couple of weeks ago. It's a bit expensive (normally, $400 though they were having a sale when I got mine). They have very nice reports and explanations, no special training is required to understand the results. Their site will tell you what things they report on. For me, I was pleasantly reassured that I haven't picked up a tendency towards a couple of late-onset minor ailments which run in my family. Then again, they also say my eyes are most likely to be blue (they are green) so that helps remind me of the limits to the current state of the art.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462113&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BwKJZn85aE9qCR4lEqDv6BEopBvQcXb4ijo4iTvLCj4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nox (not verified)</span> on 11 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462113">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462114" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1257992885"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>alternate views.</p> <p>1. Science: Look how quickly this has been published and reconfirmed. </p> <p>2. Culture: Small independent research teams can still 'beat' large commercially funded research. </p> <p>It is behind a paywall, Did they confirm the both specific rs17646946(A;A) and rs7349332(T;T) reported by 23andMe, or others in that gene?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462114&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tVfPdtQzG1gocDxG0CKyVBG4hBRRmOJtKrsq37yyBNk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.snpedia.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cariaso (not verified)</a> on 11 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462114">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2462115" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1257997339"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, I wouldn't call <a href="http://genepi.qimr.edu.au/staff/">Nick Martin's group</a> "small"! Still, it's definitely easy to spin this as a triumph of academic curiosity over commercial research.</p> <p>As for the SNPs: rs17646946 is the most significant SNP genome-wide (P=1.5x10^-31) and rs7349332 is the most significant SNP in the WNT10A region and the 25th most significant genome-wide (P=1.4x10^-6). So yeah, they've hit the same SNPs, not just the same regions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462115&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LOMrb5t6mlwID5ozxsUMnD9kBVAcsyuSIDUWYKSIDAE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 11 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462115">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462116" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258003529"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@cariaso</p> <p>Nick Martin's group is a very large research group, with a huge biobank of phenotyped samples, and an army of researchers, students and support staff. 23andMe is less than half the size in total, with the 23andWe research being carried out by a handful of researchers. </p> <p>If anything, this is an example of the unsurpising result that a very large, well funded research group can beat a small, cash-strapped company to get research published first. "The underdog lost" is never a particularly interesting story.</p> <p>As it happens, they both got the results at about the same time, and Nick Martin's grouped published slightly faster; I don't think we can really draw any conclusions about public vs private research here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462116&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8Gwb1UNiuvhaVclMEDeZy16chS3ArmKy80-lBPwCKXc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.genetic-inference.co.uk/blog/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Luke (not verified)</a> on 12 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462116">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462117" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258006515"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The whole notion of being "scooped" highlights a huge part of what's wrong with the current research model...that it's a competition of some sort. This is why people hoard their data and don't collaborate openly with others. Patenting is partly to blame, as well as the all-consuming quest to get that next big grant and, oooh, maybe even the Nobel prize (!). Research shouldn't be about the researchers..it should be about the patients.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462117&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HZhDI4yIghUwBLZUgn7fHyy8V9o6HOtWfgCOukf-bpA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gene (not verified)</span> on 12 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462117">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2462118" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258006521"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Luke,</p> <p>Agreed. I understand the 23andMe paper was actually submitted quite a long time ago, so in fact the most on-target narrative here probably relates to the disturbingly arbitrary nature of the peer review process rather than any simple "us vs them" story.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462118&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EPHU6Jf29uXxo6mHop-whTmX7J1dhjrXXhmAxprs5ko"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 12 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462118">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462119" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258053515"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Or was it the fact that the research was done on Human Subjects with no IRB process???? Maybe that's why the 23andSerge paper was held up???</p> <p>Thoughts?</p> <p>-Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462119&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rYQemRk1NRDNgQa3k6rgzrwhmoqIdPSEEVTjmRtcSNU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thegensherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 12 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462119">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462120" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258104554"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>is there a way to just 'ignore' or filter out the trolling comments from Steve, Daniel maybe you can add that as a feature to your blog :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462120&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XJlXZYnY7c2N194PUKuE1MimWhdjhL9zU3E_qNarG5w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ricardo (not verified)</span> on 13 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462120">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462121" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258116478"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Catharine</p> <p>"Has anybody out there actually purchased any of the DTC testing? What is the experience like?"</p> <p>I purchased a 23andMe v1 test ($1000) and the v2 upgrade ($400). I've also ordered for myself Myriad BRCA testing (3 SNP $400), and I've done some hobby PCR testing on myself.</p> <p>Genetic testing yourself is like running diagnostics on your home computer. Unless you know what you want to learn, you're probably not going to learn anything useful, no matter how excellent the report.</p> <p>I run Steve's medical practice. Our problem in practice is not data itself, but sorting and applying data for some use. Anybody can read the results of any medical test, just like how anybody can read the law or anybody can read computer code. The challenge is to understand all the information about a patient to achieve something useful when the patients themselves have no literacy nor ability to communicate information about themselves. It's a problem of significant digits: (10 minutes of attention) * (two vague phone messages with a secretary) * (decade of loose hand-written notes) ... </p> <p>Genetic testing is immensely useful. But, so are computers, and most people use computers for complaining to their children about how computers don't work. Or, "Magic Nigger Fight: ONLINE!" Too bad we can recreate an entire virtual Earth to pretend to slaughter neighboring villages for shiny loot and boobs, but we can't even agree on how to send a patient's name in an electronic medical record.</p> <p>"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don't much care where--" said Alice. "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat. "--so long as I get SOMEWHERE," Alice added as an explanation. "Oh, you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462121&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HF40BmxIa65tzx9FzvjJccDn2_2qxA8IK0inaTHHGvA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://hhdocs.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 13 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462121">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462122" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258117154"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Ricardo<br /> "is there a way to just 'ignore' or filter out the trolling comments from Steve, Daniel maybe you can add that as a feature to your blog :)"</p> <p>Let me filter Steve's excellent point from "Incredibly Intelligent Medical Doctor Who Does Not Make His Patients Feel Stupid So That They Resent Him Despite Telling Them That The Way They Live Their Lives Is Wrong" into "Polite Passive-Aggressive Nerd Comment Forumese" for you.</p> <p>"Or was it the fact that the research was done on Human Subjects with no IRB process???? Maybe that's why the 23andSerge paper was held up???<br /> Thoughts?<br /> -Steve"</p> <p>&gt;_&lt; **__** ((N3RD TrAnSlAtIoN0RZ)) **__** &gt;_&lt;</p> <p>Published medical research has a form to expedite review including academic affiliations and institutional review boards. Deviations from this form demand more attention from reviewers and publishers, and this increased load may be sufficient to retard publishing compared to identical research without the deviations in form.</p> <p>;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462122&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5yFWQ_OpfJakgRvFKg-GbT_hMDkME8rs-PD5TIQG3CY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://hhdocs.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 13 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462122">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462123" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258149691"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>hmm, you don't by any chance work for Steve do you?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462123&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WYtNajzs0Skh4TFkP7Z25WmhiHbKrWUhB-J_87r2TKs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ricardo (not verified)</span> on 13 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462123">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462124" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258202650"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Ricardo</p> <p>Yes, Steve and I work together in the same office. I am not employed by Steve.</p> <p>from #12 "I run Steve's medical practice."</p> <p>Steve has an obnoxious writing style, but he connects well with patients because he doesn't make them feel stupid or act aloof.</p> <p>I didn't like 23andMe 6 months ago, but I like that they seem to be moving in a new direction. I don't know what that direction is yet, but I'm optimistic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462124&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="h3_hWUWf_YlP07x3Nb-2Co8XeNT4iNgoJZWhMHk5q9k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://hhdocs.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 14 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462124">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462125" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258271987"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Yates, I could never understand why someone of your obvious intelligence is working with Murphy. He may be the <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28498">picture of wit</a> in person, but his public persona defines him. If you have any influence over the man, could you tell him to (1) write in complete sentences, (2) stop drinking and blogging for the children's sake, and (3) learn that an ellipsis involves three and only three periods? The internets thank you. </p> <p>As for the topic at hand, in light of: </p> <p>1) the firing of 10 employees in July<br /> 2) this <a href="http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/23andMe-Reviews-E145899.htm">brutal review by an employee</a> on glassdoor<br /> 3) the firing of Linda Avey<br /> 4) and the firing of 18 more employees just a few days ago</p> <p>...does this mean that you are rethinking your comments from about a year ago on "23andMe == DTC Genomics now and forever"? </p> <p>In your defense, there is a new fact in the offing, whose importance over and above business model you did apprehend at the time. It seems that either Sergey Brin or his wife have voluntarily decided not to pour (more of) his personal billions into the enterprise, perhaps because the mothership of Google is now running into squalls and it would look unseemly for them to eat nepotistic cake rather than saving his 'real' employees (to mix metaphors).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462125&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yFNQ0l1EJKIakTNCAqqcDOO21QtJZ-bB0WgdvwJzWe8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">asdf (not verified)</span> on 15 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462125">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462126" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258395704"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@asdf and @Ricardo</p> <p>sometimes my mouth moves slower than my mind and even slower than my fingers.<br /> But the message is clear, this phase of empowerment in genomics is a blip and no one is prepared to change for a blip. Whether it be journals, physicians, scientists or any patient or rational person.<br /> Despite the hype, the reality is crystal clear; other than a band of fools willing to sell their genome to google for some bobbles (web portal) most people are unwilling to take that leap, thus the market has already been sold.</p> <p>Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462126&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J38V3z8YIEF7pnGNt39Q2RZT-dtV0Spy-fKKlkVo2nc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://Www.thegenesherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 16 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462126">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462127" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258473285"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@asdf<br /> ...does this mean that you are rethinking your comments from about a year ago on "23andMe == DTC Genomics now and forever"?</p> <p>Oh, I think the next wave of genetics will not be called "DTC Genomics." So, no, I think 23andMe will stand alone in that category so long as anybody cares to remember it by that name.</p> <p>And, hey, Bush is an idiot, but that idiot was president for 8 years.</p> <p>Um... I don't know how that defends Steve. But, it's true!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462127&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YiiTUF3hxvCIeIDEAXygUd9b7D09wAD4LW16cEszPkI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</span> on 17 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462127">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462128" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1268967416"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@asdf "(1) write in complete sentences, (2) stop drinking and blogging for the children's sake, and (3) learn that an ellipsis involves three and only three periods? "</p> <p>Notice any progress yet? I do my best.</p> <p>Also still working on that "the next wave of genetics will not be called "DTC Genomics" implementation of "23andMe == DTC Genomics forever".</p> <p>Just posting a status report in case anybody ever wanted to run my record for technical truth.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462128&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nyafGvO-Q8eB0nvTruliAiNwiy4KQhsAkSmhPR0BU5g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://thinkgene.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 18 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462128">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462129" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1279389990"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm no expert in genetics, actually i'm in the hairstyle picture, so I read that the findings of this specific gene could be used, in the future, to changing the hair pattern from curly to straight and vice versa.Obviously things are not that simple, since until it is approved by FDA and others it might take a while.So, do you think this is possible?<br /> How long would it take?Just really really curious</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462129&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Bfcj1kbtRW7g80AJns4M0RXiLsLrP0pgapYgXPq-ACQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeanna (not verified)</span> on 17 Jul 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462129">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/11/11/23andme-gets-scooped-on-hair-c%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:15:00 +0000 dgmacarthur 140373 at https://scienceblogs.com 23andMe presents novel genetic associations at American Society of Human Genetics meeting https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/10/25/23andme-presents-novel-genetic <span>23andMe presents novel genetic associations at American Society of Human Genetics meeting</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's been an intensive week of genomics here at the <a href="http://www.ashg.org/2009meeting/">American Society of Human Genetics meeting</a>, and I haven't been able to grab time to blog as much as I'd have liked. In fact there's a whole load of genomics news I'll be trying to cover in some detail over the next couple of weeks; for the moment, though, I couldn't let <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/10/off_to_hawaii.php">today's presentation</a> from personal genomics company <a href="https://www.23andme.com/">23andMe</a> go by without at least some comment. (For other coverage of the conference, do check out <a href="http://www.genetic-inference.co.uk/blog/">Luke Jostins' blog coverage</a> and <a href="http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23ashg2009">the stream of live analysis on Twitter</a>.)</p> <p>The 23andMe presenter (Nick Eriksson) delivered an overview of the potential of the 23andMe cohort for association studies: all 23andMe customers have genetic information for over 500,000 common genetic variants, and they are also encouraged to provide self-reported phenotype data on a wide range of traits ranging from the presence of detached earlobes to longitudinal tracking of Parkinson's disease symptoms. Eriksson reported that the company now had sufficient numbers of returned surveys to perform genome-wide association studies for 22 traits, with sample sizes ranging between 2500 and 6000 individuals - reasonable sample sizes for an initial look at the genetic architecture of a complex trait.</p> <p>The company seems to be doing a reasonable job of identifying and controlling for the various potential confounders that plague genome-wide association studies, such as population structure. However, 23andMe faces an unusual challenge that standard academic GWAS consortia don't: <strong>the possibility that a subject will give a biased trait report after seeing their own genetic data</strong>. </p> <!--more--><p>This was powerfully illustrated by results from the "athlete gene" ACTN3 (a gene <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180686/?tool=pubmed">close to my own heart</a>). There was no association between the athletic performance-associated variant in this gene and self-reported sprinter/endurance preference in individuals who hadn't seen their genetic data - but <strong>in individuals who <em>had </em>already seen their genotype there was a marked shift towards carriers of the "sprint" or "endurance" allele self-identifying with those respective categories</strong>. In other words, people were altering their self-reported athletic affiliation on the basis of their genotype; Eriksson estimated that around 25% of individuals must be shifting their self-identification to explain the effect, a staggeringly large number.</p> <p>Eriksson played down the potential impact of this effect, but this is still a rather worrying finding for a company relying on self-reported (and often quite subjective) phenotype data from a customer base that has often peeked at their genetic data before ever filling in a survey; at the very least there is potential for inflation of apparent association with known markers already in the 23andMe database. One way around this might be to provide some kind of incentive for customers to complete phenotype surveys before they ever see their genotype data, perhaps by providing discounts on future product updates.</p> <p>Aside from this niggling concern, the major message from the talk is that <strong>23andMe's approach works in terms of generating genome-wide significant associations for complex traits</strong>: the company has successfully replicated a series of known associations with eye, skin and hair colour, for instance. More interestingly, 23andMe has also nailed down a handful of genuinely novel genetic associations: a massively significant association between an olfactory receptor region and "asparagus anosmia" (the inability to smell asparagus in one's own urine), and two regions associated with hair curl. </p> <p>These traits seem pretty trivial, but this is precisely the sort of area where 23andMe will be able to out-compete academic consortia, and these types of associations are also extremely (perhaps perversely) attractive to personal genomics customers; it's just cool to be able to see the region of the genome that underlies a trait you can see in yourself, and to follow the inheritance of these traits through a family. These types of associations won't contribute to clinical genetics, but they are likely to non-trivially boost 23andMe's appeal to consumers.</p> <p>Will 23andMe be able to uncover novel associations with a greater relevance to disease genetics? I suspect their impact here will be much more modest, at least in the near future; academic consortia are generally vastly more well-powered to pick up disease risk associations given their more stringent quality control and phenotype definitions. However, it's important not to underestimate the importance of 23andMe's ability to recruit and maintain an active base of participants, and their Facebook-like viral marketing appeal (in which customers have an incentive to recruit other people). This may make it possible for 23andMe to tap long-term phenotypic change, such as the progression of symptoms in patients suffering from diseases such as Parkinson's.</p> <p>It's been interesting to watch the perception of the genomics community towards 23andMe shift over time. There's still some hostility out there - and indeed, the first question directed towards Erikson was a needlessly combative and rather incoherent question about the ascertainment bias in 23andMe's sample towards wealthier individuals - but the strangeness of the 23andMe model is starting to wear off, and presentations like this one will no doubt help to convince scientists that this is a company that at least is capable of doing solid science.</p> <p>There's one other small nugget of data worth mentioning. It's always been hard to get a solid estimate of the number of customers in 23andMe's database, but we now have a conservative lower bound: <strong>the company has at least 6,000 unrelated individuals of European ancestry enrolled who have taken phenotype surveys</strong>, suggesting a total active (i.e. engaged in phenotype surveys) customer base substantially higher than this. I don't think this number would surprise many regular readers, but it's a useful antidote to the sorts of ridiculously low recruitment numbers I've heard quoted by personal genomics critics.</p> <p><a type="application/rss+xml" href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture"></a><a href=""><img alt="rss-icon-16x16.jpg" src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" width="16" height="16" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>. <br /><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-1e8735341225e739a7862450baf40589-twitter-icon-16x16.jpg" alt="i-1e8735341225e739a7862450baf40589-twitter-icon-16x16.jpg" /> <a href="http://twitter.com/dgmacarthur">Follow Daniel on Twitter</a>.</p> <p> </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Sun, 10/25/2009 - 00:30</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/23andme" hreflang="en">23andMe</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ashg2009" hreflang="en">ashg2009</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/consumer-driven-research" hreflang="en">consumer-driven research</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/direct-consumer-genetic-testing" hreflang="en">direct-to-consumer genetic testing</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genome-wide-association-studies" hreflang="en">genome-wide association studies</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/participant-driven-research" hreflang="en">participant-driven research</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/personal-genomics" hreflang="en">personal genomics</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/social-sciences" hreflang="en">Social Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462084" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256453877"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, damn, sorry to have not realized you were there. I would have tried to meet you. </p> <p>We were even in that room at the same time because I had the same take on that question :)</p> <p>I thought of you on another occasion when one of the talks I was in specifically had a "do not tweet" request, and I was wondering how that was being handled in other rooms.</p> <p>Alas.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462084&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pv4HRM271EmDXsvoiXKXtxGv7zZ_VNxhA3ZWGPzy2gw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://blog.openhelix.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mary (not verified)</a> on 25 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462084">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462085" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256471777"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If you want "strange," try visiting<br /> <a href="http://ytmnd.com/">http://ytmnd.com/</a><br /> now go to <a href="http://23andme.com">http://23andme.com</a> in another tab. Click around.<br /> Now go back to <a href="http://ytmnd.com">http://ytmnd.com</a></p> <p>23andMe advertisements will appear from federatedmedia.net</p> <p>So this leads to two interesting questions:</p> <p>1) Is 23andMe selling user data to attention brokers to deliver more targeted advertising?</p> <p>2) If this is good for users ---and I'm willing to entertain the notion--- then why isn't Google selling the advertising, but instead, "federatedmedia.net"? What does Google know about 23andMe that others do not?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462085&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XKlRC9qIwXxOWWIkOFETKaP7MHOp4jnbq3K_QBDR1Fw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://thinkgene.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Yates (not verified)</a> on 25 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462085">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462086" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256482012"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I agree with your comments regarding the utility of the 23andMe setup - they are excellently positioned to do the type of studies which academic institutions will never get direct funding (such as hair curl - fantastic!) As you say, they are very unlikely to be able to offer much help in the effort to identify human disease associations. Academic institutions with access to clinical samples are able to ascertain many more case individuals than population based ascertainment. For the most common diseases (where they will be able to recruit the greatest number of case individuals), heterogeneity is likely to pose a major problem. High quality subphenotype data will probably to be needed to delineate this heterogeneity, and unfortunately 23andMe are unlikely to be able to obtain this information accurately.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462086&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7Snt1XUCbu6IvVx-nCI7pCibRTFN1_Xn7Q3A2Ebnamc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Carl (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462086">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462087" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256484163"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wonder what journal will publish non-IRB approved human research? Will any clinical journal publish?<br /> -Steve</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462087&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E5HvpP3sMNpdTKbcV77BXA93UaWnO6c4TuIOCkHhddw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://Www.thegenesherpa.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 25 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462087">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462088" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256503414"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For several reasons, the effect of seeing one's ACTN3 genotype on self-reported running ability is likely to be much much larger than for most self-reported phenotype data. Most people have never run at a professional level, so they are unlikely to know whether they are natural sprinters or endurance athletes. The question, are you a natural sprinter or an endurance athlete, requires the person to make an inference based on numerous diverse experiences. For example, the person needs to decide what it means to be a natural sprinter or a natural endurance athlete. They also need to make an inference about the reference population. How does my sprinting ability compare to the average person's sprinting ability? Because this type of question asks the person to draw upon numerous past experience and infer a complex and under-defined trait relative to an subjectively defined reference population, responses are likely to be especially susceptible to suggestion.</p> <p>For most of the self-reported data gathered by 23andme, such as whether one's hair is curly or straight, this is not the case.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462088&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0pxXaf2nz7TnrhdXqugkct3z_fobr6-SgK5oTQBLe9U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Amy (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462088">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462089" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256546147"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow Steve, you've got a lot of nerve showing up here after you <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/10/23andme_performs_genome-wide_a.php#comment-1998822">accused Daniel</a> of talking out his "A$$" in a scientific publication and called his ACTN3 work "swill", a "crappy study designed to get on the cover of magazines", and "hype".</p> <p>I'm glad we have such an "honest" person here to "compensate" for all the hooey!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462089&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sH9JceZ_EnfHoxE_YMZCvhXEGvqaMj1hCPXybBtpf7E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sparky (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462089">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462090" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256554247"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dear Madam/Sir:</p> <p>Genetic Future is doing an admirable job bringing the recent developments in human genetics to its readers. I would like to bring the following to your kind attention. Perhaps it may be interesting to some of your colleagues.</p> <p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1931757,00.html">http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1931757,00.html</a></p> <p><a href="http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2009/1022/1">http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2009/1022/1</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091019162933.htm">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091019162933.htm</a></p> <p>Best wishes,</p> <p>- Govindaraju</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462090&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9HVMPgB8iCPaREAG5TwSxuPu20qw1_bMCCSyxDYXaow"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Diddahally Govindaraju">Diddahally Gov… (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462090">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2462091" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256625786"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey sparky,</p> <p>Firstly, ;-) at the obscure but amusing reference in your name...</p> <p>Secondly, Steve is welcome to keep on talking here as often as he likes. Steve's name came up a number of times at the ASHG meeting, and it appears he's done a pretty spectacular job of disqualifying himself from being taken seriously by virtually any of his potential allies among the genomics community. So long as he's willing to keep shooting himself in the foot, I'm happy to keep providing the firing range...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462091&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eH_qRRaZrPwiXQe1rMHvUSzmvPGtxOwbl7tkL_9aWh0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 27 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462091">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2462092" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256626152"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey Amy,</p> <p>I tend to agree with you - I certainly don't think this potential bias kills the 23andMe model for association. It's most likely to have an effect in cases where 23andMe scientists are trying to use their customers to validate known variants associated with somewhat subjective traits; in such cases they would be expected to see a marked inflation of the associations. In terms of discovery of new variants, on the other hand, the effect will probably be pretty small.</p> <p>However, even for the most sensitive associations, so long as 23andMe can encourage a sufficiently large proportion of its customers to fill in phenotype surveys before receiving their genetic data they can always restrict their association studies to these users (who will be free of bias).</p> <p>So: an interesting and novel source of bias, but not one that will seriously undermine 23andMe's capacity to identify novel genetic associations.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462092&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6VyQwBE7Q2SfrhUbME0vQ8ri8q1mTN7XMfw8AVtBCTw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 27 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462092">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2462093" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1256640565"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Carl @3 is showing an excess of manners. </p> <p>Perhaps 2,500 to 6,000 subjects sounds like enough to do something clinically relevant, because those are the sort of numbers that have been going into GWAS studies.</p> <p>However, GWAS are <b>cohort</b> (case/control) studies - where perhaps half the subjects have been cherry-picked to have a particular disease.</p> <p>There is a reason why <b>prospective</b> genetic studies (like the <a href="http://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk/">UK Biobank</a>) are set up to include 100,000s of subjects - and that is because most "common" diseases are not, actually, that common. </p> <p>As an example, without targeted recruitment, the number of subjects in a population sample of 6,000 people who would expect to develop Parkinson's disease - eventually - is perhaps 4-8.</p> <p>Which isn't to say prospective studies don't have their place in genetics - see:</p> <p><a href="http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v7/n10/full/nrg1919.html">http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v7/n10/full/nrg1919.html</a><br /> Teri A. Manolio, Joan E. Bailey-Wilson and Francis S. Collins (2009)<br /> Genes, environment and the value of prospective cohort studies<br /> Nature Reviews Genetics 7, 812-820 (October 2006) | doi:10.1038/nrg1919</p> <p>which has some cracking tables to show what you would have to do, if you were really going to do this properly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2462093&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yGM62Z1K9hFhLbebUDuVM9e6X0gn98x6gTdMzusTT3k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Neil (not verified)</span> on 27 Oct 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2462093">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/10/25/23andme-presents-novel-genetic%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Sun, 25 Oct 2009 04:30:26 +0000 dgmacarthur 140368 at https://scienceblogs.com Chinese summer camp to offer genetic tests for IQ, athletic performance, emotional control https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/08/06/chinese-summer-camp-to-offer-g <span>Chinese summer camp to offer genetic tests for IQ, athletic performance, emotional control</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>CNN <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/03/china.dna.children.ability/">reports</a>: </p><div></div> <blockquote><p>At the Chongqing Children's Palace, experts are hoping to revolutionize child-rearing with the help of science. About 30 children aged 3 to 12 years old and their parents are participating in <b>a new program that uses DNA testing to identify genetic gifts and predict the future</b>.</p> <p>The test is conducted by the Shanghai Biochip Corporation. Scientists claim a simple saliva swab collects as many as 10,000 cells that enable them to isolate <b>eleven different genes</b>. By taking a closer look at the genetic codes, they say they can extract information about a child's <b>IQ, emotional control, focus, memory, athletic ability and more</b>.</p> <p>"For basketball, we can test for height and other factors," said Dr. Huang Xinhua, a leading scientist on the project. "We also test listening ability so that can tell us if (the child) might be talented at music." [my emphasis]</p></blockquote> <div></div> <div>A quick note for any Chinese parents considering having this test performed on their children: <b>you're wasting your money </b>(and we're not talking small change - the test costs US$880). </div> <div></div> <div>The genetic variants that are currently known to affect traits such as athletic performance and height explain only a tiny fraction of the variation in these traits, so predictions made from genetic tests are extremely weak. In fact, for a trait such as height, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/predicting_height_the_victoria.php">parents can make substantially better predictions simply by measuring their own height</a> than they can using the best that modern genetics has to offer. </div> <div></div> <div>Eleven genes could only ever capture  a tiny fraction of the variants affecting these traits; and it's also worth noting that the vast majority of genetic research into complex traits has been done in Europeans, making predictions in East Asians (where the genetic architecture is likely to differ non-trivially) very problematic.</div> <div></div> <div>The company's claims are frankly absurd:</div> <div></div> <blockquote><p>Dr. Huang said the testing can even help project careers down the road. <br /><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px;"><br /></span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px; ">Examining one child's results, he told CNN: "This child is very thoughtful and focused, so I suggest she go into management."</span></p></blockquote> <div></div> <div>There are <b>no </b>convincing, predictive associations between genetic variants and "thoughtfulness" - this is a scam, pure and simple, preying on parents' willingness to believe in the power of science and to pay through the nose for anything they think might give their child an extra edge.</div> <div></div> <div>Unlike a lot of commentators on this story, I've got nothing fundamentally against the idea of using genetics to make predictions about a child's future, and on guiding the activities a child engages in based on those predictions. Here's the thing, though: <b>this only makes sense if the predictions are both accurate and relevant, and right now the predictions from genetics regarding complex traits are neither</b>. Parents should save their money for more useful ways to enrich their children's lives.</div> <div></div> <div>It will be very interesting to see how the differing cultural mores in China and other East Asian countries shape the adoption of direct-to-consumer genetic testing in the region; I think most of us expect that these countries will be far less squeamish than the West about taking full advantage of genetic information. That makes East Asia an extremely attractive target for all manner of DTC genetic testing companies.</div> <div></div> <div>As an example, I was recently pointed to <a href="http://www.mygene23.com/">this Chinese copy</a> of personal genomics company <a href="https://www.23andme.com/">23andMe</a>. Here are two screenshots comparing the Chinese version with the actual 23andMe site:</div> <div></div> <div> <form mt:asset-id="17033" class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-ec1561e6afb8706616d7532553cfe361-mygene23.jpg" alt="i-ec1561e6afb8706616d7532553cfe361-mygene23.jpg" /></form> </div> <div></div> <div></div> <div> <form mt:asset-id="17035" class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-596b794ac2842f2cf8769d7346cbcdee-mygene-23andme.jpg" alt="i-596b794ac2842f2cf8769d7346cbcdee-mygene-23andme.jpg" /></form> </div> <div></div> <div></div> <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic; "> <div><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline; "><img 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href="http://twitter.com/dgmacarthur" style="text-decoration: underline; ">Follow Daniel on Twitter</a>.</div> <p></p></span></div> <div></div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Thu, 08/06/2009 - 06:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-intelligence" hreflang="en">genetics of intelligence</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-personality" hreflang="en">genetics of personality</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/personal-genomics" hreflang="en">personal genomics</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1249562757"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Whether it's a scam or wishful thinking, at least you don't see political correctness that plagues this country.<br /> Whether you like it or now, future genetics may well be what is described in Gattaca, once more genes, SNP's and their confounding effects are better understood in the future.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cyv0kvmI-FtitxcJwacuSNEbxCcqce0Ic8SBUgpYk0k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">fx (not verified)</span> on 06 Aug 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1249604302"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If a world with gene therapy like Gattaca means a 50% increase in the average per capita contribution to GDP, I'm all for it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qWpjuq0ExrBlHkzGkRSo57-oyE4nDY8yuNxYew9hdQ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mthson (not verified)</span> on 06 Aug 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1249816649"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm going to brush up on my Mandarin.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461849&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XnKbYFUSRv_Wk8FJJ5FAUtLxhv-pMOfq-RExfXqKDSw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://genomeboy.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Misha (not verified)</a> on 09 Aug 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461849">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461850" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1249951305"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>IQ is not only related factor for emotional control</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461850&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UOS3TRQr6NTiWzHzqjhftuWIIdZ1F66R_ZfitEO__zI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cosmedicistanbul.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Estetik klinikleri (not verified)</a> on 10 Aug 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461850">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461851" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1258726032"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.mygene23.com">http://www.mygene23.com</a> seems to attract a lot of eyeballs. Personal Genetic Service is a huge market, which nobody will deny.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461851&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="C5WtHzAsTa2lh0T90A14A3SlVcBHCjAgdUyKS7B-vpY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Shawn (not verified)</span> on 20 Nov 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461851">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/08/06/chinese-summer-camp-to-offer-g%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:00:00 +0000 dgmacarthur 140335 at https://scienceblogs.com Genetics of complex traits in Europeans and East Asians: similarities and differences https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/04/28/genetics-of-complex-traits-in <span>Genetics of complex traits in Europeans and East Asians: similarities and differences</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><span class="Z3988" title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&amp;rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&amp;rft.jtitle=Nature+Genetics&amp;rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1038%2Fng.357&amp;rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fresearchblogging.org&amp;rft.atitle=A+large-scale+genome-wide+association+study+of+Asian+populations+uncovers+genetic+factors+influencing+eight+quantitative+traits&amp;rft.issn=1061-4036&amp;rft.date=2009&amp;rft.volume=41&amp;rft.issue=5&amp;rft.spage=527&amp;rft.epage=534&amp;rft.artnum=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Fdoifinder%2F10.1038%2Fng.357&amp;rft.au=Cho%2C+Y.&amp;rft.au=Go%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Kim%2C+Y.&amp;rft.au=Heo%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Oh%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Ban%2C+H.&amp;rft.au=Yoon%2C+D.&amp;rft.au=Lee%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Kim%2C+D.&amp;rft.au=Park%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Cha%2C+S.&amp;rft.au=Kim%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Han%2C+B.&amp;rft.au=Min%2C+H.&amp;rft.au=Ahn%2C+Y.&amp;rft.au=Park%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Han%2C+H.&amp;rft.au=Jang%2C+H.&amp;rft.au=Cho%2C+E.&amp;rft.au=Lee%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Cho%2C+N.&amp;rft.au=Shin%2C+C.&amp;rft.au=Park%2C+T.&amp;rft.au=Park%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Lee%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Cardon%2C+L.&amp;rft.au=Clarke%2C+G.&amp;rft.au=McCarthy%2C+M.&amp;rft.au=Lee%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Lee%2C+J.&amp;rft.au=Oh%2C+B.&amp;rft.au=Kim%2C+H.&amp;rfe_dat=bpr3.included=1;bpr3.tags=Biology%2CGenetics">Cho, Y., Go, M., Kim, Y., Heo, J., Oh, J., Ban, H., Yoon, D., Lee, M., Kim, D., Park, M., Cha, S., Kim, J., Han, B., Min, H., Ahn, Y., Park, M., Han, H., Jang, H., Cho, E., Lee, J., Cho, N., Shin, C., Park, T., Park, J., Lee, J., Cardon, L., Clarke, G., McCarthy, M., Lee, J., Lee, J., Oh, B., &amp; Kim, H. (2009). A large-scale genome-wide association study of Asian populations uncovers genetic factors influencing eight quantitative traits <span style="font-style: italic;">Nature Genetics, 41</span> (5), 527-534 DOI: <a rev="review" href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ng.357">10.1038/ng.357</a></span><br /> </p><hr />A <a href="http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v41/n5/abs/ng.357.html">paper just released in <i>Nature Genetics</i></a> takes the most comprehensive look yet at the genetic factors underlying complex traits in an East Asian population, using a large sample of Korean individuals. <p>The researchers used a genome-wide association study to look at eight medically relevant traits: body mass index (BMI), waist-to-hip ratio, height, systolic and diastolic blood pressure, pulse rate, and measures of bone density in the arm and leg. The results reveal <b>both similarities and intriguing differences in the genes contributing to trait variation in East Asian and European populations</b>. For instance, while many of the genomic regions associated with BMI and height were the same in this study as those previously identified in European cohorts, there were a number of replicated variants associated with the other traits that have not previously been found in large European studies.</p> <!--more--><p><a href=""></a>Why the differences? In some cases the answer is obvious: the genetic<br /> variant differs in frequency between Europeans and Koreans, altering<br /> the power of genome-wide studies to detect the association. In other<br /> cases the variant <b>is </b>at a similar frequency in the two<br /> populations, suggesting that the effects of certain genetic variations<br /> may depend on variants elsewhere in the genome (i.e. a so-called<br /> "genetic background" effect).</p> <p>During the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/04/personal_genomics_is_not_dead.php">kerfuffle over the value of genome-wide association studies</a> (GWAS) a couple of weeks ago much was made of the fact that even if genetic variants are not strongly predictive, they can still provide insight into the underlying biology of a common disease. The problem with this approach is that <b>genes that play a major role in the disease process will not be picked up by GWAS if they don't happen to contain a common variant that alters their function in that population</b>. </p> <p>By surveying multiple human populations by GWAS, however, we increase the pool of common genetic variants - and therefore increase the odds that any given disease pathway gene will be picked up in at least one GWAS. In addition, because different populations show different patterns of association between neighbouring genetic variants (linkage disequilibrium), looking in multiple populations can be extremely useful for dissecting out which variants are actually causative and which are mere bystanders.</p> <p>With those goals in mind, you can expect to see many more GWAS of non-European populations over the next couple of years, and some explicit comparisons of the differing genetic architecture of complex traits between populations. Exciting times for those of us interested in the genetic and evolutionary basis of between-population differences... </p> <p> </p><div> <p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0.75em; padding: 0px; font-size: 1em; font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline;"><img src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" style="border-width: 0px;" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline;">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>.</p> <p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0.75em; padding: 0px; font-size: 1em; font-weight: normal;"> </p> </div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Tue, 04/28/2009 - 05:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genome-wide-association-studies" hreflang="en">genome-wide association studies</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/predictions" hreflang="en">predictions</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/race" hreflang="en">race</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/04/28/genetics-of-complex-traits-in%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:00:00 +0000 dgmacarthur 140297 at https://scienceblogs.com NIH offers $2 million to fund mapping of genetic variation to gene expression https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/04/02/nih-offers-2-million-to-fund-m <span>NIH offers $2 million to fund mapping of genetic variation to gene expression</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.genomeweb.com/informatics/nih-offers-2m-genotype-data-analysis-methods">GenomeWeb Daily News</a> points to <a href="http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/rfa-files/RFA-RM-09-006.html">a new funding opportunity</a> from the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) for researchers interested in studying the link between genetic variants and variation in the expression levels of genes.</p> <p>This is an incredibly important area of research. Genome-wide association studies have recently uncovered vast numbers of DNA regions linked to common diseases (the latest estimate I've heard suggests around 400 common genetic variants associated with 75 different diseases or traits) - but <b>we still don't have a clue how the majority of these regions actually alter disease risk</b>. </p> <p>However, it's becoming increasingly clear that very few of these association signals are due to changes in the sequence of the proteins produced by genes. Instead, it seems likely that many of the underlying genetic variants affect human health through <b>changes in gene expression</b> - basically, by alterations in the levels of messenger RNA produced by a gene, with downstream effects on the amount of the protein produced by that gene. Proteins, by and large, are the molecules that actually <i>do stuff </i>(like holding cells together, or driving the chemical reactions required for life), so such changes can have profound effects on human health.</p> <p>The link between genetic variation and gene expression has thus been a target of intensive research over the last few years, a fair chunk of which has been performed by <a href="http://www.sanger.ac.uk/Teams/Team16/">colleagues at the Sanger Institute</a>. The major limitation of this research is that it has almost exclusively been performed using a single type of cell - immortalised lymphoblasts, blood-derived cells with the handy property of being able to grow and divide in a Petri dish essentially forever. </p> <p>Although this <a href="http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v39/n10/abs/ng2142.html">research</a> has already answered fundamental questions about the link between genetic variants and gene expression, <b>it provides insight into just one of the hundreds of cell types dwelling within the human body</b>. Obtaining a broader picture of the way that genetic variation alters disease risk will require performing this analysis in many different tissues in hundreds of humans, all of whom have very detailed information on patterns of genetic variation.</p> <p>That's the aim of the NIH's <a href="http://nihroadmap.nih.gov/GTEx/">Genotype-Tissue Expression (GTEx)</a> project, the focus of the current funding boost. GTEx is a pilot project that will look at the correlation between genetic variation and gene expression in many different tissues, collected during autopsy or organ transplant procedures from 160 donors. In other words, in addition to lymphoblasts, researchers will have access to data from tissues like liver, heart and brain that are typically off-limits - and that in turn will provide insight into diseases that primarily affect these tissues, information that simply couldn't be gleaned from studies of cultured lymphoblasts.</p> <p>The NIH funding is aimed at supporting the development of <b>new methods for detecting links between DNA-level variation and gene expression</b>. This is extremely timely: new sequencing technologies offer images of astonishing resolution of patterns of gene expression, but techniques for making full use of these data are still in their infancy. A targeted cash infusion is a very handy incentive to drive these techniques forward.</p> <p> </p><div> <div><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline;"><img src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" style="border-width: 0px;" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline;">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>.</div> <div></div> </div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Thu, 04/02/2009 - 12:30</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-gene-expression" hreflang="en">genetics of gene expression</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461434" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1238714271"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Instead, it seems likely that many of the underlying genetic variants affect human health through changes in gene expression</p></blockquote> <p>Changes or differences? If it's changes, then using tissue after the disease has progressed doesn't seem sensible to me: you don't know what else has happened in between.</p> <p>I'll also <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/sj.hdy.6800970">pimp a short commentary of mine</a> where I pointed out that gene expression studies are useless at telling us what's really going on, because they say little about the underlying physiology.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461434&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fKxBrpCv5ifS_bQCT95qEJpPK5MhMzm4-IF1wdTzqtY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://network.nature.com/people/boboh/blog" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bob O&#039;H (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461434">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461435" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1238726206"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Bob,</p> <p>I guess I meant "differences", i.e. people with different genotypes have different levels of gene expression.</p> <p>I agree with your point about the dangers using tissue late in disease progression - by this stage there's every chance that the primary gene expression differences have been obscured by secondary changes (e.g. fibrosis, inflammation, etc.). However, most of the studies here aren't actually looking at disease patients: they're looking at genetic control of gene expression across a large cohort of healthy (or at least unselected) individuals. This doesn't necessarily provide deep insight into highly disease-specific processes, but it does allow a dissection of the effects of common disease-associated variants on expression, as well as some intriguing insights into the generalities (here's <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2008/11/where_to_look_for_regulatory_v.php">two</a> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2008/12/genetic_of_gene_expression_in.php">examples</a>).</p> <p>Thanks for the link to your paper - I especially enjoyed the carefully understated first paragraph! I agree with your argument regarding the likely irrelevance of most gene expression changes to disease; given the sheer number of common eQTLs that have been discovered recently, I think it's likely that you're correct that the majority of these have essentially no effect on overall phenotype. </p> <p>However, that's not to say that <b>all</b> of them are neutral, and I'd still argue that it's likely that a significant proportion of disease risk variants (possibly the majority) are the result of either direct or indirect effects on gene expression.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461435&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YpE34GWGv3nBD7EF4atycpM9gssS3gXjm1_1qoLnl5k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 02 Apr 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461435">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/04/02/nih-offers-2-million-to-fund-m%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:30:00 +0000 dgmacarthur 140269 at https://scienceblogs.com Genes vs environment: a false dichotomy https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/25/genes-vs-environment-a-false-d <span>Genes vs environment: a false dichotomy</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Neuroscientists Sam Wang and Sandra Aamodt have <a href="http://judson.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/guest-column-mugged-by-our-genes/">a guest post on Olivia Judson's <i>NY Times</i> blog</a> discussing the complex interplay between genes and environment in the determination of personality traits. A taste:</p> <blockquote><p>So some of the effects that we call "genetic" (or "nature") are the<br /> indirect result of people being drawn to particular environments<br /> because of their personality. Or to put it another way, some<br /> "environmental" (or "nurture") effects are actually attributable to<br /> genetic tendencies.</p></blockquote> <p>It's worth noting that similar effects can occur for other traits: for instance, a genetic variant that increased sugar cravings or decreased motivation to exercise could have an effect on obesity risk; a variant that increased susceptibility to a specific virus might increase the risk of auto-immune diseases triggered by viral infection. In each case, the genetic variant increases disease risk indirectly by altering exposure to an environmental risk factor.</p> <p><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline;"><img src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" style="border-width: 0px;" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml" style="text-decoration: underline;">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>. </p><div></div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Wed, 03/25/2009 - 03:45</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/gene-environment-interactions" hreflang="en">gene-environment interactions</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-personality" hreflang="en">genetics of personality</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461398" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1237987565"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>gene-environment correlation<br /> gene-environment interaction</p> <p>good ideas....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461398&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-vNiRpnOSmmrNuf-6tK_GDm11ttxfIUlG8FJl4PfgG4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">razib (not verified)</a> on 25 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461398">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461399" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1238068652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>you gotta be kidding me... doesn't anyone read Fisher anymore??<br /> ok.. even g.c.williams/<br /> or, if you're a behaviorist, at least go back to jerry.hirsch.</p> <p>nah. lets stick with Fisher.<br /> P=G+E<br /> after one breaks down (G) into additive (A), dominance (D) and epistasis (I) ... G*E and r(GE), are, mostly, minor components....</p> <p>btw -- twin studies inheritantly overstimate all of these components (even with some of the newer statistical models), but are superb for elucidating environmental influences...<br /> :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461399&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UbO5iL0Mr9xAovf4joc7Znzsv9bUonlu3y7O6psxDAQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gfb1 (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461399">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/03/25/genes-vs-environment-a-false-d%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:45:55 +0000 dgmacarthur 140262 at https://scienceblogs.com Race and intelligence: the debate continues https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/12/race-and-intelligence-the-deba <span>Race and intelligence: the debate continues</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/02/should_scientists_study_race_a.php">posted a while back</a> on two duelling essays in <i>Nature</i> on the intensely controversial subject of <b>whether scientists should be permitted to study group differences in cognition</b>. <i>Nature</i> now has a series of correspondence on the topic in <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/">its latest issue</a>.</p> <p>Firstly, there are rebuttals from the authors of the two original essays: Steven Rose argues that <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458146c.html">the debate is dead and that reviving it serves no purpose</a>, while Ceci and Williams argue (substantially more convincingly, in my opinion) that <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458147a.html">Rose's declaration of these areas of research as invalid is premature</a>.</p> <p>Some of the other opinions are predictable: <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458145c.html">two</a> <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458146b.html">letters</a>, for instance, simply dismiss the use of IQ as a measure of intelligence. A third letter in a similar vein is more subtle and interesting: Kathryn Holt argues that <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458145b.html">IQ is an overly simplistic measure, but that more detailed analyses of cognitive differences may prove illuminating</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>So, given that we have logical reason to hypothesize about differences<br /> in cognitive abilities, why would we expect to measure these by using a<br /> single number such as IQ, which suggests there must be a hierarchy of<br /> cognitive function? The prediction surely is that each population will<br /> adapt to be better at the particular cognitive tasks that are most<br /> important for survival in its own environment. If this is the case,<br /> then identifying these (potentially adaptive) differences in cognitive<br /> ability, and searching for associations with genetic variants, could<br /> provide fascinating insights into how our brains work.</p></blockquote> <p>This makes good sense; if human populations have indeed undergone some level of genetic adaptation to meet differing cognitive demands (which seems entirely possible given what we know about recent human evolution), then investigating group differences may provide useful insights into the molecular architecture of cognition.</p> <p>One of the most well-respected researchers in the field of group differences in cognition, Jim Flynn, <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458146a.html">weighs in with a careful and measured response</a>:</p> <blockquote><p class="norm">As the philosopher John Stuart Mill points out, when<br /> you assert that a topic is not to be debated, you are foreclosing not<br /> some narrow statement of opinion on that topic, but the whole<br /> spiralling universe of discourse that it may inspire. Mill thought that<br /> only someone so self-deluded as to think his own judgement was<br /> infallible could wish to circumscribe an unpredictable future in this<br /> way.</p> <p class="norm">Rose should be very certain he is correct. If<br /> not, and if he converts the rest of us, only Jensen and those of his<br /> persuasion [i.e. advocates of group differences] will publish; and they will win the minds of students<br /> because the rest of us have all adopted a policy of unilateral<br /> disarmament.</p> </blockquote> <p>Finally, Gerhard Meisenberg <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/full/458145a.html">appears to advocate the widespread use of genetic engineering (or selective breeding?)</a> should any genetic basis for group differences in cognition be uncovered:</p> <blockquote><p>By not investigating the race-intelligence link, we not only perpetuate<br /> ignorance and the prejudice that thrives on ignorance. We also deprive<br /> ourselves of the possibility to tackle the existing inequalities, first<br /> by a judicious development policy and -- should genetic differences<br /> indeed be important -- by eventually changing the allele frequencies of<br /> the offending genes. <b>We should not get stuck in the twentieth-century<br /> assumption that environments are changeable but genes are not. This<br /> will no longer be the case in the twenty-first century.</b> [my emphasis]</p></blockquote> <p>This is not a debate that will be resolved any time soon, but it is a credit to <i>Nature</i> that they have permitted such a robust exchange of views on this rather dangerous topic within their pages.</p> <p><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml"><img src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Thu, 03/12/2009 - 04:45</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-intelligence" hreflang="en">genetics of intelligence</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/race" hreflang="en">race</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461312" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236861319"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A short essay on this topic: </p> <p>FASTER EVOLUTION MEANS MORE ETHNIC DIFFERENCES<br /> by Jonathan Haidt<br /> <a href="http://www.edge.org/q2009/q09_4.html#haidt">http://www.edge.org/q2009/q09_4.html#haidt</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461312&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5GthzVszfwHXUhBHeXJSagy3jiXFJymhsTpOTJaaDNs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">XiXiDu (not verified)</span> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461312">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461313" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236866053"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bob and Razib,</p> <p>Let's start that again, shall we?</p> <p>Bob - Razib is trolling; don't take the bait.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461313&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZU7Bse8M-ZelqwQRa5DwyUIOF0nYIXc0J9smSIwIlDk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461313">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461314" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236868290"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But ... but ... I enjoy getting outraged. It's the most fun I've had all day.</p> <p>OK, let's be serious. I agree with your conclusion. One thing that interests me is the technical aspect of estimating genetic variation across populations (it's one of the things I work on). It's difficult in <i>any</i> system (see <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2008.03958.x">this commentary</a> for a discussion of some of the issues). For humans, I think we would need cross-fostering across populations and good pedigree information (or a lot of cross-fostered twins). Such data would be fascinating to play with (whatever the trait), but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to be collected.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461314&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SnFJhGL6wDsZAAlc-y5G5ykps_EFSSfKu3kopxJz-yM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://network.nature.com/people/boboh/blog" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bob O&#039;H (not verified)</a> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461314">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461315" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236868636"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>For humans, I think we would need cross-fostering across populations and good pedigree information (or a lot of cross-fostered twins). Such data would be fascinating to play with (whatever the trait), but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to be collected.</i></p> <p>international adoption. there is suggestive data out there.</p> <p>i hope you did get to see my last comment....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461315&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mB5hmG_jL5EBjv5P7XvkHHkt2WN1slBro0cczR9f0nc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">razib (not verified)</a> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461315">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461316" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236869287"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Me as pretty much uneducated guy interested in science doesn't get what's wrong here. What is science about again? Should we ban research because it could reveal some inconvenient truth about reality, like that Swazi people may actually be better at math than Vietnamese and native Americans less aggresive towards strangers than Mongolian? It may turn out that some people with black skin are actually much smarter than most people with white skin, given the same environmental conditions and education. So?</p> <p>I'm vegetarian, I'm anyways following non-anthropocentric moral values. It won't change much for me if science discovers that I as German have a lower general intelligence (whatever that is) than Polish people or vice versa. </p> <p>Indeed, some racists may use any findings to back their ideas. But it may also lead to the implementation of a broader circle of ethics, adequate for a future that may hold more diverse intelligence than we see today.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461316&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lIFN4ckCCsLnJycZhIIXsO8yo3HLD5WmC7ZQplW1Z9M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">XiXiDu (not verified)</span> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461316">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461317" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236874595"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If race didn't exist, would we have to invent it?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461317&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o9Uvf6QuWIR9WWClVzSrTpK8jDKgrMuXCK7VTSqV5n4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">anomalous (not verified)</span> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461317">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461318" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236881856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think Rose is simply retreating in some disarray from a previous trenchant position against sociobiology in general to (in his eyes only) a more defensible position against intelligence genetics (why does that have to be confined to race?). Its not ethics its right on lefty politics 80s style.</p> <p>That said whilst I have no ethical objection to tackling this problem I greatly doubt we presently have the methodology or tools to do so. Once we start to really get to grips with the genetic associations of variants with simple phenotypes or common diseases-- then we can start to worry about associations with nebulous traits that we cannot yet define.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461318&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G1TTQHw9tcySWnOK9qQlIJM0J9hBUIOopdpL7NzBzA4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stephen (not verified)</span> on 12 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461318">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/03/12/race-and-intelligence-the-deba%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:45:26 +0000 dgmacarthur 140250 at https://scienceblogs.com Predicting eye colour from genes https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/10/predicting-eye-colour-in-embry <span>Predicting eye colour from genes</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><span class="Z3988" title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&amp;rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&amp;rft.jtitle=Current+Biology&amp;rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1016%2Fj.cub.2009.01.027&amp;rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fresearchblogging.org&amp;rft.atitle=Eye+color+and+the+prediction+of+complex+phenotypes+from+genotypes&amp;rft.issn=09609822&amp;rft.date=2009&amp;rft.volume=19&amp;rft.issue=5&amp;rft.spage=0&amp;rft.epage=0&amp;rft.artnum=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209005971&amp;rft.au=Fan+Liu&amp;rft.au=Kate+van+Duijn&amp;rft.au=Johannes+R.+Vingerling&amp;rft.au=Albert+Hofman&amp;rft.au=Andr%C3%A9+G.+Uitterlinden&amp;rft.au=A.+Cecile+J.W.+Janssens&amp;rft.au=Manfred+Kayser&amp;rfe_dat=bpr3.included=1;bpr3.tags=Biology%2CGenetics">Fan Liu, Kate van Duijn, Johannes R. Vingerling, Albert Hofman, André G. Uitterlinden, A. Cecile J.W. Janssens, Manfred Kayser (2009). Eye color and the prediction of complex phenotypes from genotypes <span style="font-style: italic;">Current Biology, 19</span> (5) DOI: <a rev="review" href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2009.01.027">10.1016/j.cub.2009.01.027</a></span></p> <hr /><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-106ccac6484e7fb7d5cfccbee988b9ae-eyes.jpg" alt="i-106ccac6484e7fb7d5cfccbee988b9ae-eyes.jpg" />In a recent post I noted that <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/predicting_height_the_victoria.php">genetic tests to predict adult height are still a long way off being accurate</a>; currently, known genetic variants can predict just over 5% of the variance in height, as opposed to 40% predicted using a simple algorithm based on the heights of both parents. The genetic complexity of height means that trying to screen embryos for this trait using pre-implantation genetic diagnosis is likely to be little more than an exercise in frustration. <p>However, that's not true for all traits. In several recent posts I've mentioned eye colour as one relatively genetically simple trait that would prove amenable  to embryo screening, and indeed there has already been at least one US fertility clinic offering such screening to couples undergoing IVF (although that offer has <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/designer_baby_doctor_no_longer.php">now been withdrawn</a>).</p> <p>A <a href="http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2900597-1">paper in the most recent issue of <i>Current Biology</i></a> puts some numbers on the predictive value of genetic testing for the prediction of eye colour. The authors examined all of the 37 variants (in 8 separate genes) previously reported to have an association with eye colour in a sample of 6,168 Dutch of European ancestry, and assessed the predictive value of these markers alone and in combination.</p> <p>The results were clear: <b>with just six genetic markers, individuals with blue or brown eye colour could be predicted with over 90% accuracy</b>*; the accuracy for predicting intermediate colours (e.g. green) was somewhat lower at around 72%.</p> <p>Adding further markers had rapidly diminishing returns, with the last 15 markers adding essentially nothing further in terms of predictive value (these markers were typically captured by other variants within the same gene).</p> <p>The authors note that "[t]he genetic prediction values obtained here for blue and brown eyes in<br /> Europeans represent <b>the highest accuracies revealed so far in genetic<br /> prediction of human complex phenotypes</b>." This makes for a pleasant change from the results for most disease-related traits, where common genetic variants have <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2008/09/david_goldstein_on_the_failure.php">generally provided frustratingly little predictive power for risk prediction</a>.</p> <p>In addition to being a tempting target for "cosmetic" genetic screening by parents undergoing IVF, eye colour genes will no doubt prove useful in forensic applications - being able to predict <i>any </i>physical traits from trace DNA left at the scene of a crime will at least occasionally be useful for investigators. However, the researchers note that their results should only be regarded as applying to individuals of European ancestry; different populations are known to have different genetic determinants of pigmentation.</p> <p><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml"><img src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>.</p> <p>* Strictly speaking, the researchers showed that the area under the ROC curve was greater than 0.9 for blue and brown eyes and 0.72 for green eyes; this can be interpreted as the probability that a randomly chosen positive instance would be ranked higher than a randomly chosen negative one. </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:15</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pre-natal-genetic-diagnosis" hreflang="en">pre-natal genetic diagnosis</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461311" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236970401"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I believe that the technology will never reach 100%. There will always exist a small chance that such predictors and markers just happen to fall into the statistically extreme area, so we can never guarantee a prediction of eye color. However, eye color doesn't matter much anyways, so let parents predict all they want. It has no tangency with intelligence or physical superiority.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461311&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5Wpl1HAKEAkPanr-LrjBJPoWi2ZFtqt8IpOwHoQdY1Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Interesting (not verified)</span> on 13 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461311">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/03/10/predicting-eye-colour-in-embry%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:15:35 +0000 dgmacarthur 140248 at https://scienceblogs.com Predicting height: the Victorian approach beats modern genomics https://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/03/predicting-height-the-victoria <span>Predicting height: the Victorian approach beats modern genomics</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><span class="Z3988" title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&amp;rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&amp;rft.jtitle=European+Journal+of+Human+Genetics&amp;rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1038%2Fejhg.2009.5&amp;rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fresearchblogging.org&amp;rft.atitle=Predicting+human+height+by+Victorian+and+genomic+methods&amp;rft.issn=1018-4813&amp;rft.date=2009&amp;rft.volume=&amp;rft.issue=&amp;rft.spage=0&amp;rft.epage=0&amp;rft.artnum=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Fdoifinder%2F10.1038%2Fejhg.2009.5&amp;rft.au=Yurii+S+Aulchenko&amp;rft.au=Maksim+V+Struchalin&amp;rft.au=Nadezhda+M+Belonogova&amp;rft.au=Tatiana+I+Axenovich&amp;rft.au=Michael+N+Weedon&amp;rft.au=Albert+Hofman&amp;rft.au=Andre+G+Uitterlinden&amp;rft.au=Manfred+Kayser&amp;rft.au=Ben+A+Oostra&amp;rft.au=Cornelia+M+van+Duijn&amp;rft.au=A+Cecile+J+W+Janssens&amp;rft.au=Pavel+M+Borodin&amp;rfe_dat=bpr3.included=1;bpr3.tags=Biology%2CGenetics">Yurii S Aulchenko, Maksim V Struchalin, Nadezhda M Belonogova, Tatiana I Axenovich, Michael N Weedon, Albert Hofman, Andre G Uitterlinden, Manfred Kayser, Ben A Oostra, Cornelia M van Duijn, A Cecile J W Janssens, Pavel M Borodin (2009). Predicting human height by Victorian and genomic methods <span style="font-style: italic;">European Journal of Human Genetics</span> DOI: <a rev="review" href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ejhg.2009.5">10.1038/ejhg.2009.5</a></span></p> <p><br /> </p><hr /> <p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-b01073a9802c6d4056aea21ddd1f6722-tall_short1.jpg" alt="i-b01073a9802c6d4056aea21ddd1f6722-tall_short1.jpg" />Human height is a strongly genetic trait: in well-nourished Westerners somewhere in the vicinity of <b>80-90% of the variation in height is due to genetic factors</b>; if your parents are tall, there's a very good chance you will be too. That means that if we understood the genetic factors that influenced height we could predict the future height of a child (or even an embryo) with a reasonable degree of accuracy.</p> <p>However, developing that genetic understanding has proved extremely difficult. It turns out that height is also the classic model of a <b>genetically complex</b> trait: a spate of very large recent <a href="http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v40/n5/abs/ng.121.html">genome-wide</a> <a href="http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v40/n5/abs/ng.122.html">association</a> <a href="http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v40/n5/abs/ng.125.html">studies</a> has nailed down over 50 different regions of the genome that affect height, which <a href="http://www.genetic-future.com/2008/04/height-and-hypertension-genes-in-nature.html">in total explain less than five percent of the overall variation</a> - suggesting that hundreds (if not thousands) of individual genetic variants contribute, most of them nudging us upwards or downwards by just a few millimetres.</p> <p>Height is not the only human trait to demonstrate such a convoluted molecular basis; aside from a few unusual traits such as skin pigmentation, the majority of traits that vary between humans are genetically complex. This is one of the reasons why <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/02/the_market_for_designer_babies.php">embryo screening for traits like height or IQ is unlikely to be effective in the near future</a>.</p> <p>A <a href="http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ejhg20095a.html">recent paper in the </a><i><a href="http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ejhg20095a.html">European Journal of Human Genetics</a> </i>(also covered by <a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/02/19th-century-trumps-21st-for-predicting.html">Dienekes</a>) illustrates this point by comparing the predictive power of modern genetics with a method for height prediction developed back in 1886 by Sir Francis Galton. The results are a humbling reminder of just how much we have to learn about the genetic architecture of variable human traits. </p> <!--more--><p>The study looked at all 54 of the markers identified by the three studies linked above as being associated with height, and used these markers to generate a "genotypic score" - basically a count of the number of "tall" variants that each individual carried. This score was generated for 5,748 individuals of known height.</p> <p>This graph shows the results: sex- and age-adjusted height are shown on the vertical axis, and genotype score on the horizontal axis.</p> <p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-cd4f413ffe3b6cca4515f6831edadf13-54-gene_height_regression.jpg" alt="i-cd4f413ffe3b6cca4515f6831edadf13-54-gene_height_regression.jpg" /></p> <p> </p><div>The blue line shows the slope of best fit for the data; you can see that the individuals forms a diffuse cloud around the line, with a barely discernible upwards trend. In fact, <b>genotype score explained just 3.8% of the variance in height</b>, although the authors could squeeze this up to 5.6% by carefully weighting the markers. (For the curious, the red lines represent the mean residual height in people coming from top and bottom 5% of the profile distribution.) <p>That's a fairly disappointing result from the best set of markers that modern genomics has to offer. Adding insult to injury, the authors go on to compare this result to the predictive power of the 123-year-old Galtonian height prediction method, which relies simply on the average deviation of the two parents from the population average (corrected for age and sex). This measure was calculated for a smaller set of 550 individuals for whom parental height data was available.</p> <p>Here's the data for this approach:</p> <p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-0b2578dfb89b274808912a793c7a9d2a-parental_height_regression.jpg" alt="i-0b2578dfb89b274808912a793c7a9d2a-parental_height_regression.jpg" /></p> <p>In this graph, the blue line is the best fit, and the green line has a slope of 1; the difference between these two lines is due to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_towards_the_mean">regression toward the mean</a>. The correlation between this predictor and measured height is much stronger than for the genotype score above: <b>this measure predicts around 40% of the variance in height</b>, 6 to 10 times more than is explained by genotype score.</p> <p>The two measures were highly correlated, as you would expect, meaning that adding genetic data to the Galtonian method only improved the variance explained by ~1.3%.</p> <p>The difference in predictive power between these two methods (which are, in effect, measuring the same thing) is a powerful testament to our current ignorance of the genetic determinants of human traits.</p> <p>Of course, that ignorance is a temporary state. I know there is at least one massive meta-analysis of height genome-wide association data that should be published early this year, and will add a few more dozen common markers; the hunt for rare height-altering variants will take a little longer but should bear fruit over the next couple of years.</p> <p>So, will adding more and more genetic markers eventually provide a useful predictive test that exceeds the power of simply measuring parental heights? Well, here's what that first graph would look like under the hypothetical scenario that we knew <b>everything </b>about height genetics (i.e. had markers capturing the full 80% of the heritable variance):</p> <p><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/wp-content/blogs.dir/274/files/2012/04/i-280bf8b78fd0918105911f8b7da7e129-ideal_height_regression.jpg" alt="i-280bf8b78fd0918105911f8b7da7e129-ideal_height_regression.jpg" /></p> <p></p></div> <div>You can see immediately that the predictions made under this hypothetical future scenario would be extremely accurate. However, whether we can actually find all of the genetic variants underlying height - or even the majority of them - remains to be seen. It's entirely possible that a large fraction of this variation is determined (for instance) by very large numbers of variants with extraordinarily small effect sizes, or by subtle non-additive interactions, in which case <b>the sample size required to characterise the full spectrum of variants may be larger than the population available for sampling</b>. Now <i>that </i>would be a disappointing outcome. <p>It's worth noting that the better performance of the Galtonian approach is not universal. For some traits with low heritability (such as some serum lipid levels) the Galtonian approach performs even more poorly than current genetic markers; this indicates that it won't be much longer before genetic tests are better than family history for risk prediction, at least for a subset of traits.</p> <p>Still, this paper is a timely reminder of the primitive state of our current understanding of complex trait genetics, and just how far we have still to go before personal genomics can provide useful, novel predictions for the majority of human traits.</p> <p><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml"><img src="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png" /></a> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scienceblogs/geneticfuture" type="application/rss+xml">Subscribe to Genetic Future</a>.</p> </div> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a></span> <span>Tue, 03/03/2009 - 01:30</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genetics-normal-variation" hreflang="en">genetics of normal variation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/genome-wide-association-studies" hreflang="en">genome-wide association studies</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461247" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236062845"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>...it won't be much longer before genetic tests are better than family history for risk prediction, at least for a subset of traits.</p></blockquote> <p>But if they have low heritability, genetic tests still won't be much good, of course.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461247&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PwYmfJvPrAhd228F8BcXOZMUoL9cr0gajD5R0soaCuw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://network.nature.com/people/boboh/blog" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bob O&#039;H (not verified)</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461247">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461248" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236063705"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Bob,</p> <p>Absolutely. The authors note in their discussion:</p> <blockquote><p>Thus, for lipid levels the genomic prediction is already doing as good as (or as bad as) the Galtonian one. However, the genomic profiling, unlike the Galtonian, still has the potential to improve, as more loci affecting the phenotype of interest are discovered.</p></blockquote> <p>However, they also note that even a small predictive value can be of some use - the genomic score prediction for height was pretty bad, but it actually has similar discriminatory power to predicting the risk of coronary heart disease using low-density lipid levels!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461248&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j1rNHE2QkpbJtJfzyR839_H1FLNa1nhfr-gtbeAxfTg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461248">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461249" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236065625"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It probably matters that stature is not genetic, for the most part.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461249&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6XNomnbdpQehLVH_WeRQclSXQYlh_OwiNt6e8kGD4V8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greg Laden (not verified)</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461249">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461250" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236066329"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"It probably matters that stature is not genetic, for the most part."</p> <p>I wish that people, when flat out disagreeing with a statement made in the post ("in well-nourished Westerners somewhere in the vicinity of 80-90% of the variation in height is due to genetic factors") would say what they're basing their disagreement on.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461250&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cR5uyzL5nJ6Nf-Opf42sYmqqTKcrMXnAov3w8LDB3fI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MRW (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461250">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461251" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236066744"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Greg,</p> <p>I'm not sure what you're talking about - as I noted in the first sentence of the post, height is <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16933140">80-90% heritable</a> among well-nourished Westerners (the population being studied here). It's also worth noting that in this population, similarity between siblings in height is <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16565746">almost entirely due to genetics</a> rather than a consequence of shared environmental factors.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461251&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Lo9Qt6GokuE6bvdtadVNUIKiOgoXSiM0CUP587Qi5q0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461251">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461252" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236070164"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>that's really interesting stuff. Did they have any ideas as to why their genomic study didn't do well? Do you think it would have been more accurate had they used FEWER genes rather than more?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461252&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wiJ9zKbpqGgX1HiCS5MrsbLPPp5kk8HeA3e_-vX1LeQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">scicurious (not verified)</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461252">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461253" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236071696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey scicurious,</p> <p>I think it's just that the genetic markers discovered so far are the tip of the iceberg; the more markers we find, the more graph (a) will start to look like graph (c). </p> <p>As for whether fewer markers would have helped: it's possible, but I think their weighted analysis would have effectively done this for them (by assigning the unnecessary markers a weight of zero) - and that still only explained 5.6% of the variance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461253&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8eZKhVADFNQfia5Y6ZcKe-DaKEyMYS_9tauYuOeBhaA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461253">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461254" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236080691"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Do humans have a homolog of the canine IGF-1? In dogs, it's supposed to account for most of the size variation.</p> <p><a href="http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/apr2007/nhgri-05.htm">http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/apr2007/nhgri-05.htm</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461254&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d1oNM7ttU_j5vIxpxB3c71TmKO3ZXvq9ZNSkv4qrDbg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Manduca (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461254">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461255" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236092619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yes, humans have IGF1 too. In fact, mutations in this gene lead to growth retardation (and other things) <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=608747">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=608747</a><br /> However, here we're talking about height in the 'normal' population, not about the extremes of dwarfism or gigantism. Of course, looking at genes in these extremes could provide valuable information. This is how the old candidate gene approach worked. But for example in this GWAS of height ( <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18952825">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18952825</a> ), their top hit leads to lower IGF1 levels.</p> <p>Daniel, maybe the previous poster was joking and talked about stature in the context of status?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461255&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WLoED7Hp54x4X9shsMU2TgQf3lnLfjTsPIwC394bVOI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Henk (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461255">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461256" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236095064"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just curious, what role does methylation (epigenetics) play in height. Perhaps the interplay of environment with gene silencing (or turn on) might be the place to look for the remaining 20%.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461256&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o1QONho0P8Bj9fStCKophPme2i5ogzMDoOHg2blI1MA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Barbara (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461256">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461257" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236107406"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>something is missing from this story<br /> do you mean relative height?<br /> average height has been increasing<br /> at an alarming rate.<br /> I am 5 feet tall and really feel left behind</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461257&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gZtTqfAM2iAFr9BJGb-LPpr-RxsWcODDUjt6J4ZkMG8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Catherine Shalen (not verified)</span> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461257">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461258" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236112270"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Daniel,<br /> The moral of the story......Until we can do a genome for 100 bucks, family history is key. Even when we can do a genome for 100 USD, it will take 10 years before it trumps a good family history. Too bad you can't charge 399 to do a family history online.....</p> <p>-Steve<br /> <a href="http://www.thegenesherpa.blogspot.com">www.thegenesherpa.blogspot.com</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461258&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jKEGB7KqN4rco8HeBI3HGZpillkRb_tX4QEHmgJLbPA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.helixhealth.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steven Murphy MD (not verified)</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461258">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461259" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236142575"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Catherine,</p> <p>In the Western world the population as a whole may have been increasing in height, but the <b>variation between people</b> is still primarily genetic. This is because the environmental improvements underlying this increase (I'd guess mainly improved infant nutrition and a massive reduction in infectious diseases) have affected pretty much everyone in society. With the major sources of environmental variation removed, the remaining variation in height is almost entirely due to genetics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461259&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="81K8kYuXTczcUU2P9U0A4jfETjQfDXS8CDdFabSVY5w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 03 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461259">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461260" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236143318"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Steve,</p> <p>No, you can't charge $399 to do an online family history; but you <i>could</i> add a family history section to your existing $399 genome scan, to improve the accuracy of your gene-based risk predictions.</p> <p>The combination of both sources of data will always be better (albeit sometimes marginally) than either one alone, and gene-based predictions will improve over time while the value of family history remains static.</p> <p>Will it be 10 years before genetics beats family history? As I said in the post, for some disease-related traits the two approaches are currently about even, so genetics will trump family history within a year or two. But I agree that for many traits (the high-heritability genetically complex ones) it seems like family history will provide better predictions than genome scans for at least the next five to ten years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461260&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wNireZQD9eV4FKolGmrSXNZtQ9FdpSJRLkz-hs_f79g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 04 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461260">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461261" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236159938"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Quote: "As I said in the post, for some disease-related traits the two approaches are currently about even, so genetics will trump family history within a year or two"</p> <p>Come back in a year or two and make that statement again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461261&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VlO12kmPckUHDB8OAB1cNL2aLONNi3nUu0H6LHYcm9w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">N/A (not verified)</span> on 04 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461261">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="253" id="comment-2461262" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236162813"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You're seriously arguing that genetics won't be a better predictor than family history for <i>any</i> disease-related trait within two years? Shall we put some money on that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461262&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EBRim2rr1blDd9LAdTLmAqJVxpwQkW04CKKYPaPi2xQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/dgmacarthur" lang="" about="/author/dgmacarthur" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dgmacarthur</a> on 04 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461262">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/dgmacarthur"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/dgmacarthur" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461263" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236165247"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Within two years? No! You must combine a family history with the genetic information.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461263&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fkx3_LQ2fqkn5g8KyVnmx7oLo7qHzZc8jd9Q59Ru5R4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">N/A (not verified)</span> on 04 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461263">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461264" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236181483"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Daniel,<br /> Interesting paper. I have recently co-authored a book on height called "Normal at Any Cost: Tall Girls, Short Boys, and the Medical Industry's Quest to Manipulate Height." A portion of the book examines the science of height prediction, which is still akin to looking into a crystal ball. And Catherine, don't feel bad about your height. Average American height is actually falling; the Dutch, on the other hand, keep growing and growing and no one knows why.<br /> --Chris</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461264&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qlpCabJxjG-NEXgT_IW5B83Lq_d_a6Ncw3rWBr2Vz7I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/03/predicting_height_the_victoria.php" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">chris (not verified)</a> on 04 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461264">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461265" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236209577"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's because we Dutch drink lots of milk ;-)<br /> But I don't think height prediction is like looking into a crystal ball. I haven't read your book, but estimates using the average parents' height +/- x cm (can't remember the numbers exactly; different for boys and girls), usually gives a good estimate height. Of course, this will not give everybody's exact height, but at least a good estimate for the majority and better then genetics can do at the moment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461265&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="se83jlJWgtwtGzDfiqRbREg_1BrJRPwZp6mh629hiVQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Henk (not verified)</span> on 04 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461265">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461266" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236365298"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Being a natural "giant" ie over 6'6" (as per BMA definition)without some sort of pituary problem I cam honestly say that after extensive, often painful tests, the old system wouldn't have predicted my eventual height. Father 6'2" mother 5'8" my height (allowing for quite bad lardosis) at 6'11" (6'8" with lardosis) is outside the standard deviation of either predictive test. It is a pain in the neck (literally) I think one of the contributing factors is diet. Both parents suffered malnutrition in their child hood (c 1930's Britain) so not reaching their "natural" height, therefore skewing both predictive tests. And anyone needing their ceiling painted can call me on.......</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461266&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-iX0_PDlCntdA5f0KFkhOM6jlLshprzg_1j6tD40uSM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Simon (not verified)</span> on 06 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461266">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-2461267" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1236365556"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That is lordosis not lardosis (I have weight issues so a Freudian slip?) :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=2461267&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DGo7IsYHfScvkFjA_2Kfe6wHoF0LP4El0kRdZWuns0Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Simon (not verified)</span> on 06 Mar 2009 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/34443/feed#comment-2461267">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/geneticfuture/2009/03/03/predicting-height-the-victoria%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:30:00 +0000 dgmacarthur 140238 at https://scienceblogs.com