antarctica https://scienceblogs.com/ en Antarctic Ice Shelves Melting at Accelerating Rate https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/26/antarctic-ice-shelf-melt <span>Antarctic Ice Shelves Melting at Accelerating Rate</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Antarctica is pretty much covered with glaciers. Glaciers are dynamic entities that, unless they are in full melt, tend to grow near their thickest parts (that's why those are the thickest parts) and mush outwards towards the edges, where the liminal areas either melt (usually seasonally) in situ or drop off into the sea. </p> <p>Antarctic's glaciers are surrounded by a number of floating ice shelves. The ice shelves are really the distal reaches of the moving glaciers floating over the ocean. This is one of the places, probably the place at present, where melting accelerated by human caused greenhouse gas pollution occurs. The ice shelves are fixed in place along their margins (they typically cover linear fjord like valleys) and at a grounding point underneath the shelf some distance form the ice margin but under sea level. </p> <p>The collapse or disintegration of an ice shelf is thought to lead to the more rapid movement of the corresponding glacial mass towards the sea, and increased melting. This is the big problem right now with estimating the rate of glacial melting in the Antarctic. This is not a steady and regular process, as rapid disintegration of an ice shelf is possible. Most likely, Antarctic glacial melting over the coming decades will involve occasional catastrophic of an ice shelf followed by more rapid glacial melting at that point. </p> <p>Unfortunately, the ice shelves are generally becoming more vulnerable to this sort of process, <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/03/25/science.aaa0940.abstract">a new study just out in Science</a> shows. From the abstract:</p> <blockquote><p>The floating ice shelves surrounding the Antarctic Ice Sheet restrain the grounded ice-sheet flow. Thinning of an ice shelf reduces this effect, leading to an increase in ice discharge to the ocean. Using eighteen years of continuous satellite radar altimeter observations we have computed decadal-scale changes in ice-shelf thickness around the Antarctic continent. Overall, average ice-shelf volume change accelerated from negligible loss at 25 ± 64 km3 per year for 1994-2003 to rapid loss of 310 ± 74 km3 per year for 2003-2012. West Antarctic losses increased by 70% in the last decade, and earlier volume gain by East Antarctic ice shelves ceased. In the Amundsen and Bellingshausen regions, some ice shelves have lost up to 18% of their thickness in less than two decades.</p></blockquote> <p>This is one of many reasons that even the most extreme of the IPCC estimates of ice loss (generally) and its contribution to sea level rise have to be seen as a lower limit. This is a substantial change, and it is very recent. It isn't just that the ice sheets have gotten thinner, but also, that the rate of melting at these margins is increasing. </p> <p>Caption to figure: Fig. 1 Eighteen years of change in thickness and volume of Antarctic ice shelves.<br /> Rates of thickness change (m/decade) are color-coded from -25 (thinning) to +10 (thickening). Circles represent percentage of thickness lost (red) or gained (blue) in 18 years. Only significant values at the 95% confidence level are plotted (see Table S1). Lower left corner shows time series and polynomial fit of average volume change (km3) from 1994 to 2012 for the West (in red) and East (in blue) Antarctic ice shelves. Black curve is polynomial fit for All Antarctic ice shelves. We divided Antarctica into eight regions (Fig. 3), which are labeled and delimited by line segments in black. Ice-shelf perimeters are shown as a thin black line. The central circle demarcates the area not surveyed by the satellites (south of 81.5°S). Original data were interpolated for mapping purposes (see Table S1 for percentage area surveyed of each ice shelf). Background is the Landsat Image Mosaic of Antarctica (LIMA).</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Thu, 03/26/2015 - 08:35</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-0" hreflang="en">Climate Change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming-1" hreflang="en">Global Warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ice-shelf-loss" hreflang="en">Ice Shelf Loss</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sea-level-rise" hreflang="en">sea level rise</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463420" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427373799"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Although it is a fascinating map / graph, it is extremely difficult to read and understand what it means. Sometimes more traditional graphs allow the reader to grasp the information at a glance albeit with less flash.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463420&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HR8_tzemlzEwQ2SJU-MdAWZJDQwnXuX7aPbOU4wWABs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dan Owen (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463420">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463421" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427385223"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It truly boggles the mind to hear someone call 25 cubic kilometers of ice negligible. It really drives home just how big Antarctica is and how thick many of the glaciers must be.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463421&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HnNZuYTHDsBZ_-WYrC2pIoAmXYUc69kOhwFqcnqMFUk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Doug Alder (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463421">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463422" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427389547"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dan, it is at first. But the quick way to get it is this: Red dots are bad, bigger worse.</p> <p>Blue dots are good, but there are hardly any.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463422&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pyRx83prKO_-e_E6qn8R0RRPQT9OlrAczuyjv9gxBnE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463422">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463423" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427394781"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>On the end of a post like this, you should put: a BOO!!!</p> <p>In my book says: nobody of those shonks going to Antarctic, bothered to stick a thermometer inside that ''supposedly melting ice - to see what the temp is! Then to ask the children: -''on what temp the ice STARTS melting!!!</p> <p>2] floating ice melting doesn't rise the sea-level; can you put BOO!!! on that one'' cheers braves</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463423&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="T8ZblbCaCL4QnfdHsSPYI6T2Q7ckvS9fr3ZKcKyHzp4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463423">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463424" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427399711"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Floating ice does not raise sea level, but this is not about floating ice. Boo.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463424&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vT6WLjuUieZbqTzgqS7jEdVH8P0Kn6q8eiG8jkaC5Mw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463424">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463425" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427400001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Its not just the iceshelf news that i scary. We keep discovering deep subglacial channels that connect iceshelves/calving fiord glaciers into the deep interior. It seems the greatest melting is occurring on the bottoms of floating glaciers that are coming into contact with increasingly warm seawater. As thinning move the sea/land contact further inland these channels may become a conduit for heat flow under the glaciers, as well as increasing the rate of iceflow.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463425&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RbAlVVeOhScEeGCW8mZyn7ue4pVN8Zf4Po-CdUV5mpc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Omega Centauri (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463425">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463426" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427402763"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Omega Centaury #6</p> <p>In my book also says: -''as more ice builds up -&gt; ice expands sideways. b] a bit of water melted on the surface from sooth as anti-freeze -&gt; that cold-water sinks and refreezes again -&gt; by refreezing that cold-water, it expands by 11% - from 1000km2 11% is a lot-&gt; gradually pushes some chunks of ice off the cliff - always did and always will BUT: for the ''Carbon Bashers'' that has being the biggest ''proof of global warming'' for the last 20y on TV - showing ''ice falling'' as ice melting... nobody sticks the thermometer into that falling ice; to check the temp! If is 26C - it needs the planet to warm up by 27C, before first ounce of ice can be melted from the ''global temp'' (one day you will need to answer those questions, on a witness stand, under oath! think about it, when you go to bed!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463426&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dt_NAwqSDRNVC5Pv4DOflONxLlcFtpJYW5Q78gMmJts"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463426">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463427" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427403888"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And there, folks, is the the best argument we've seen all day that global warming isn't for real.</p> <p>Case closed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463427&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yQBHswzhz5Ysta0maPYAVZnSSjl91HMLT6fCeH0MUUs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463427">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463428" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427421053"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Then to ask the children: -”on what temp the ice STARTS melting!!!"</p> <p>Ah, the naivité of the child!</p> <p>Stefan, put a tray with ice cubes in your (hopefully new and hence supposedly "frost-free)) freezer and store it for a few months. Marvel at the disappearance of at least some of that ice, if not all.</p> <p>Majick!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463428&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xy7GFntYJFRN2_bgvzbCyGWRRBjF96HIw2Jy9H6xoJA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463428">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463429" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427427136"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In 2011, then Rear Admiral David Titley gave a TED talk, and what he said about melting glaciers is more or less in line with the findings of recent research.</p> <p>“And these glaciers are starting to fall apart faster than anybody – even two years ago – thought they were going to do this.”</p> <p>“...and potentially we can see the sea coming up somewhere between 3 and 6 feet in the 21st century...Is that in the IPCC? No. Why? Because if you read the report, they said, we just don't understand the ice sheet dynamics, so all we're gonna do is like just kind of figure out what the expansion of the ocean is and melt a little bit off the top. It's being shown in a variety of ways there that that is a gross, gross underestimate.”</p> <p>The section on glaciers starts at 18:12.<br /> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7udNMqRmqV8">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7udNMqRmqV8</a></p> <p>Titley was the U.S. Navy's chief oceanographer.<br /> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Titley">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Titley</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463429&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W_XLlUyovM3QCCmTeV_xn3V86QnT-LAnrtwJpUeOQXM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cosmicomics (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463429">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463430" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427436936"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Meanwhile at the other end of the planet the melting is so dramatic that even the mainstream news here in Oz has noticed it :</p> <p><a href="https://screen.yahoo.com/7news-nz/arctic-sea-ice-record-low-054609320.html">https://screen.yahoo.com/7news-nz/arctic-sea-ice-record-low-054609320.h…</a> </p> <p>Arctic sea ice too is disappearing much faster than predicted.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463430&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bcfzhvl6ieyhtffF_zhOyp_LdeuQ1OO4O2ajRVj1pkk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463430">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463431" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427440287"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@stefanthedenier #4 &amp; 7 : You claimed on another thread that you wanted a serious scientific discussion* and I'm pretty sure I pointed out there how some of your statements here such as abusing climatologist as "shonks" and suggesting they deserve to be on trial (for what offences exactly btw?) make you seem from your comments to be trolling or at minimum not responding in good faith. </p> <p>Yet here you go again. </p> <p>If what you say is true then just how do you account for the observed melting, the fact that it isn't in equilibrium but increasing and literally visible from space? How do you explain the graphic above and the news I linked at #11 and so very much more? </p> <p>Also, you don't stick an average household thermometer into ice for obvious reasons - a thermometer being a delicate tube of glass containing a toxic metal isn't really designed to handle it like say an ice pick would be and breakage would be the likely result - instead you place the thermometer on the ice or use different varieties of thermometers to measure ice temperatures. I'm pretty sure, despite your claim to contrary that climatologists and glaciologists do in fact do this. </p> <p>Hmm .. I wonder what I can find out by googling something like say, "Measuring ice temperatures in glaciers" .. lesse now .. </p> <p>Aha! </p> <p>Try for instance : </p> <p><a href="http://www.igsoc.org:8080/journal/14/70/igs_journal_vol14_issue070_pg23-30.pdf">http://www.igsoc.org:8080/journal/14/70/igs_journal_vol14_issue070_pg23…</a> </p> <p>Excerpt : </p> <blockquote><p>The measurements were made with glass-encapsulated thermistors of 3 000 n nominal resistance at 0 ° C. Each thermistor was mounted at the end of its own cable in such a way that there was no protuberance associated with it, thus permitting cable and thermistor to be easily melted free for calibration and future use at the end of the experiment. The procedure for mounting a thermistor was as follows: ... (..snip ..) ... Bore holes, which were not cased, were made by 25 mm diameter electro-thermal drills capable of drilling about 8 m h - J • These were designed by Philip Taylor. On completion of a hole, the drill and drilling cable were recovered and replaced by a single thermistor-cable assembly. It was felt that additional cables in the same hole might impede eventual cable recovery. To facilitate placement, a small weight was attached to each cable with thread which was easily broken for cable recovery. All of the thermistors at the lower site, and all but one at the upper site, were calibrated again at time of placement by reading them when they were submerged to a depth of 1.5 m in the water that stood in all the bore holes. They were read again at their final position and then allowed to freeze in, which required roughly one week. Temperatures were read several times before the cables were recovered 2.3 to 13 months later. The cables were melted free for recovery by passing electrical current through a pair of conductors not connected to the<br /> thermistor, an operation requiring 5 or 10 min. Immediately upon removal, each thermistorcable<br /> assembly from the lower site was recalibrated in an ice bath and a triple-point cell. "</p></blockquote> <p>A very small part of one of many papers published by actual scientists representing years of thought and work and effort and able to be found in about ten seconds if you bother to check for it.</p> <p>Do you still want to keep alleging that <i>"nobody sticks the thermometer into that falling ice; to check the temp!"</i> Stefan? Or will you have the decency to :</p> <p>a) Admit you got that wrong and </p> <p>b) Apologise to the scientists whose work you have dismissed and whose character you have defamed through ignorance and an apparent predilection for personal abuse</p> <p>b) do the slightest bit of basic research before you make claims like that again? </p> <p>Thinking of which, I believe I provided you with a list of what I consider excellent sources both online and in print. I don't suppose you've actually looked at and considered any of those yet or are willing to offer your own such list of what you consider reliable sources by any chance?</p> <p>* One I began responding to but have since been away and not yet had a chance to check back back on - really busy week and month for me, sorry.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463431&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3TVfoAEvJIe734vHgZTQhWZIUSmFecxz2fSXl4nPikc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463431">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463432" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427441809"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>PS. If the science paper linked above is too technical you could look at this link too : </p> <p><a href="http://blogs.agu.org/geospace/2014/09/30/scientists-use-fiber-optic-cables-measure-ice-loss-antarctic/">http://blogs.agu.org/geospace/2014/09/30/scientists-use-fiber-optic-cab…</a> </p> <p>Among lots of other things. I guess if nothing else, I'm learning a few interesting things from the discussion with our denier here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463432&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p1eHBm-GMDctem1fl_z4uXzdWrg2mJpSoJZb0UsV4hw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463432">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463433" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427442692"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>PPS. See : </p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/12/lomborg-tells-bangladesh-not-to-worry-about-sea-level-rise/#comment-620040">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/12/lomborg-tells-bangladesh-n…</a> </p> <p>For my earlier comment and debate with Stefanthedenier here incl. the list of sources offered for him. Haven't yet had time to read and respond there but plan to do so soon. </p> <p>Note that I did indeed point out to Stefanthedenier that his insulting language against actual scientists showed a lack of actual desire for a reasonable debate and politely asked him - back on March 16th - to cut that out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463433&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I38W0FeUsfOp5_sXK5KmkM9-l82R2Q9oNOA5UrE_ylc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463433">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463434" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427446451"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I did indeed point out to Stefanthedenier that his insulting language against actual scientists showed a lack of actual desire for a reasonable debate"</p> <p>Yes... Stevo, look up the term "sealioning".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463434&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bqnU0qOLOy49D4wvwjeLIFv0tNvyzHOj5qNDslymdXk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brainstorms (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463434">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463435" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427451828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>stefan: <i>On the end of a post like this, you should put: a BOO!!!</i></p> <p>After your name, I'd like to see "pointless comment deleted, try again when you have something to say". But that's just me.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463435&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ayqev2SxYVZSgFWrJCPkCkS9bn1gOYrmBn1FYgBuq38"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">GregH (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463435">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463436" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427468696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm so embarrassed. I'm supposed to be on top of basic science that overlaps my field, but according to stefanthedenier, I, and every one of my colleagues, have completely over-looked that bit of grade school physics on ice. I can only Imagine how people who are directly involved in glaciers and ice must feel</p> <p>What makes it even worse, we've had decades to notice it and refute this AGW stuff and become famous, and not one of us saw it. Thank goodness for the non-expert with no qualifications to point this for us....who knows where science would be were it not for them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463436&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3ylreuK7Q3xHkWDElrJKL7dmkSftquaWMZ_Ezw7ejm8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dan Andrews (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463436">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463437" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427482571"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Marco @ 9<br /> I don't need that experiment; already says on my post: as long as there are rice paddies in countries surrounding Himalaya - there will always be ice, snow and glaciers. If they plant eucalyptus trees -&gt; the dry heat produced will vacuum the ice, without turning into water! (in India they are already planting eucalyptus trees = Australia is exporting environmental terorisam) also: in Australia having rice paddies is treated as a crime; by the Carbon Molesters (CM)</p> <p>Also; ''dry heat'' produced in Australia is destroying the WV created in surrounding waters - that WV belongs to Antarctic, for renewal of her ice AND to Indonesian archipelago. Green senator Brown and Flannery imposed ''Water Embargo'' on the Australian environment - no stormwater is allowed to be saved in a new dams. Instead, they are repossessing farmer's water, to drain it into the sea; because Pacific doesn't have enough water...?! (because; farmers irrigate when is dry and hot - water evaporates and produces humidity in the dry air, to attract extra clouds from the sea</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463437&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="no9iAqMHtFI194v7-9nPPEPHrx1ggZoYV2ReTOJVde4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463437">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463438" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427482883"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow, that is incredible.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463438&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mo03vmaHDJwY0dkB158BNMJr2LM5U5Wtdb__FoCJPEk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463438">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463439" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427483311"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dan Andrews#18</p> <p>My book is called: ''both emperors are naked''<br /> I'm not a bird and cannot lay an egg, but I know when the egg is ROTTEN! Climatology is rotten to the bone!... All the money squandered by those ''researchers'' will be paid back to the taxpayer, with modest interest - and honest researches will be done. Falling ''solid'' ice off the cliff... if one pushes Al Gore off the cliff - he would have fallen down also; it's called gravity, not hot ice! Have a nice day!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463439&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I8liSUUMz7tPzwJtxMI1uApAIZCA1hLYYYYtf2sgJXA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463439">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463440" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427486100"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Astrostevo@13</p> <p>I've learned what's on the links you offer, long time ago - reason I got involved in exposing the scam.<br /> 2} I've challenged the ''Skeptics'' one to go there and stick the thermometer into the falling ice 2 inches (no need to waist time and drill 1,5m hole) b] if that ice was 27C - they should have informed ABC &amp;SBS, not to put down the Carbon Molesters (CM) by constantly showing ice falling. The children would have told them, for one lollipop: -''ice falls of the cliff, because of gravity, AND: for one ice-cream those little Newtons would have advised: when ice gets warm -&gt; ice becomes water. Mate, 1m3 of ice is 900kg heavy... Ice falling down is their ''biggest proof'' of the phony global warming. People will get correct information; how cold is the ''falling ice'' then those ''scientist'' will be called Inmates.<br /> 2] when I pointed in a letter to the editor, that: those ''scientist'' have being watching on TV, the terrible smog coming out of the cooling towers on electricity generators, not even showing the top of the chimneys, from where CO2 comes out, because is not much for scaring the Urban Sheep - scaring them with WV on the driest continent - they slowed showing and don't superimpose gray color on that terrible smog anymore - because honest people started complaining. As your friend; I'm pointing out to you: think about when the correct temp of that ice is known. Now you you are trying to make confusion, as if I'm a ''skeptic'' idiot. Mate, you can learn a lot from me; for you is good to know the truth - instead, I asked you three times to read my post and see that: if you were genuinely worried about global warming - you will rejoice, because is all proven, that doesn't exist! If you know that is all crap, as Abbott said, but you are persisting - don't argue with me - I will come to visit you in jail</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463440&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="przEKVWgCdoJccr33CQhIsZ7JTF1XiX3MsLYkrv5UTc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463440">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463441" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427488373"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Astrostevo@13<br /> From the previous comments from you - I learned that: it's bad for Egyptians having water storage for 7 years / four times more people than in OZ. In OZ, we have water storage for 9 months - if rains don't come - desalinate the same water that was drained from the land, during storms OD drink filtered sewage water. 2] Chinese know how important water is - was worth relocating a million people - in tropical australia; on a dry creeks no need to relocate a million people - to build a small dam wall 10X81m, would cost less than building a house. 2000 of those would made Australia garden of Eden.</p> <p>Instead: now the dry heat created in australia is destroying the WV created in the surrounding waters. That WV belongs to Indonesian archipelago, from Port Moresby to Sumatra and destroys their vegetation. b] that WV belongs to antarctic: when that cold / heavy air is puled by the earth's centrifugal force from Antarctic ''highs'' blowing foe 8-9 months north - simultaneously, to avoid creation of vacuum - lots of moist air is pulled from the north; antarctic to replenish her ice BUT: when australian produced ''dry heat'' has destroyed the WV created in the surrounding waters = no moist air goes there. Ice on Antarctic is not melted from any phony global warming BUT: is constantly melted by the geothermal heat, from below, every minute of the year. That heat is not much, but is protected by the ice, as perfect insulator, from the unlimited coldness in the air. After you read my first link I gave you - I will give you links, for you to learn a lot (now I'm in the tropics, but I grew up in a deep snow. Remember: the more you know = the more you are worth!<br /> Instead, you gave me the ''climate denier crock''<br /> 1] he is lying that anybody ''denies'' the climate - everybody knows that: climate exist and can change for better also<br /> 2] I have proven to him that ''global'' warming is phony; he doesn't allow Glasnost anymore. They are constantly searching for some drought or floods - and ignore the other 97% of the planet, where is good weather, even though is same amount of CO2 everywhere... Do you really believe his stories?! If you people cannot learn that: climate never stop changing BUT the phony global warming is just that PHONY - but you are ridiculing the people who know that is no global warming; by calling the ''climate'' change deniers... you think for a name of those ''scientist''</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463441&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iOttj0bHxQWFU-I7Qnm_oiwzhIgzIUXhkL4Te-TLeKo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463441">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463442" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427492074"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Greg Laden<br /> Skeptics are much more prolific liars, than you guys! They can bit you with lies, with their hands behind their back! Long time ago I made a collection of ''Skeptic's stinky skeletons in their closet'': <a href="https://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/skeptics-stinky-skeletons-from-their-closet/">https://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/skeptics-stinky-sk…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463442&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wi62pMAbY1YH0yHUrUh_OPs72gWuce4cn9LWv9Ax7ZE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463442">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463443" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427505075"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I don’t need that experiment; already says on my post: as long as there are rice paddies in countries surrounding Himalaya – there will always be ice, snow and glaciers."</p> <p>Ah, the frantic handwave as response.</p> <p>At least stefan took a name that fits his state of mind.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463443&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2J6NjZU5sMH6jwBiiH0g6ThIya6Ctzlz2-TizLGN2wI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463443">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463444" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427512514"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@stefanthedenier :</p> <blockquote><p>but you are ridiculing the people who know that is no global warming; by calling the ”climate” change deniers… you think for a name of those ”scientist”</p></blockquote> <p>Um, Stefan, unless your last name is actually Thedenier, you have named <i>*yourself*</i> stefan-the-denier. And deny reality as observed by scientists and layfolk alike you have done and continue to do.</p> <p>You claim to have proven that Global Overheating is "phony" but you certainly haven't impressed me or I think any others here with your "proof" and have provided no actual scientific evidence or alternative credible sources to support your position. </p> <p>Yes I've now seen your <i>"Cooling Earth'</i> blog linked to on the other thread (<i>O\w my eyes!</i>) and it doesn't actually prove anything other than your complete ignorance of basic well-established physics among many other facts. </p> <p>For example from there : </p> <blockquote><p>Because that ”cold vacuum” that constantly zooms trough the atmosphere doesn’t have friction or gravity is unnoticeable for the ”expert’s” brains.</p></blockquote> <p>The vacuum of interplanetary (and for that matter interstellar and intergalactic) space is a medium - it's like a solid or a liquid which can have different temperatures depending on its exact circumstances and location. </p> <p>Space does indeed have gravity - otherwise, y'know, we wouldn't be orbiting the Sun and wouldn't have our Moon and various satellites orbiting us. Friction too still exists for instance when a meteor or spacecraft enters Earths atmosphere it glows from the heat of re-entry friction. </p> <blockquote><p>"Warmed CO2 during the day goes high up and IS COOLED DIRECTLY BY THE ”COLD VACUUM! No ”radiation” of heat out in space and albedo misleading crap!!! Warmist theology is 100% wrong! Can be proven now, easy. Therefore: CO2 is NOT a greenhouse gas!</p></blockquote> <p>Yeesh, where do we begin with answering the wrongness here? No part of that is actually correct. You've now outed yourself as someone who disputes the reality of flippin' albedo!? Really? (Shakes head.)</p> <p>Oh and then it gets "better" :</p> <blockquote><p>It proves that: most of the heat that is created on the ground, on low altitude, by the time that heat goes up to 8-9-10km altitude, that heat is completely neutralized by the ”cold vacuum” which constantly penetrates into the atmosphere. Unless the science adopts my facts = both camps are wrong!! !Whatever I say is no guessing, can be proven now, no need to wait 100y and see that everybody was wrong. NO ‘’radiating’’ heat!</p></blockquote> <p>So only convection and conduction then? Our Sun and the other stars aren't sending us infrared along with UV , microwaves, visual light and soon? What the .. ?!</p> <p>Also <i>"Unless the science adopts my facts = both camps are wrong!!"</i> </p> <p>LOL. Are you absolutely sure this hasn't given you away as a satirist? I mean okay so much else of what you've written seems serious and certainly isn't funny or even remotely well written and readable enough to suggest that but whoah! Really dude? Did you actually write and mean that seriously?</p> <p>Then we get to this last little excerpt from the blog post Stefan the denier posted as his recommended reading to show why he's supposedly right : </p> <blockquote><p>" the good Lord has inserted a thermometer in EVERY atom of oxygen &amp; nitrogen – those thermometers are ordering the atoms how much to shrink / expend, and by how much to expand ”precisely” according to heat/coldness! The extra heat produced in individual day determines the ”precise” volume of the troposphere. That’s where the ”sensitivity” is guys, not your ”climate sensitivity” from the phony global warming” wrongly referred for confusion, as ”climate change” to be used for brainwashing and confusion…</p></blockquote> <p>Oh and, btw, I've spared y'all here the joys of Stefan's use of bolding and thus the full flavour of his blog posts awfulness.</p> <p>Stefan, I'm really not sure why <i>(or even *if*)</i> you think as you do. You seem awfully confused and lacking in any understanding of real physics along with so much else incl,. what constitutes a scientific debate. </p> <p>If you are a Poe then congrats you got us fooled, For What its Worth. Which would be? Well, I dunno, as satire and comedy you haven't really hit the mark in my view. </p> <p>If you are serious then Stefan, I really think you need to stop posting and commenting and start researching and actually learning as frankly you are just embarrassing yourself. Because pretty much every single thing you have said in your comments here is just laughably and provably painfully erroneous and your credibility here is thus nil.</p> <p>PS. For your information :</p> <blockquote><p>"All I want to emphasize is: the earth cannot warm up all that empty / cold space from here to the next star Alpha Centaury, 2 light years away."</p></blockquote> <p>Alpha Centauri is four light years away (4. 37 to be precise)- Proxima Centauri a red dwarf part of the system is a smidgin closer at 4.24 light years distant. Also Mercury doesn't have a "dark side" - well not a permanent one anyhow (not tidally locked) - and Venus doesn't have polar caps.</p> <p>PPS. I must admit I also liked Stefan's <i>" ’infinite zero Calvin"</i> plus his <i>"After sundown, CO2 loses benefit from the sunlight / cools and falls to the ground – that’s when the trees and crops are most active, after 8pm."</i> Surely that's proof he's pulling our legs here yeah?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463444&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="T7Ja5QI_aoKIZK6FKp3zrt9IqwU25lSsb11ap_O0e7Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463444">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463445" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427513143"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>See : </p> <p><a href="https://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/cooling-earth/">https://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/cooling-earth/</a> </p> <p>For the source of my quotes from Stefan the denier and more un/intentional (?) comedy of a sort if you dare folks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463445&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9guWbKt42JH6BpdEKmuY67xRSjK5MTonnci6Vh3KB9s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463445">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463446" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427514772"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>“I’m not a bird and cannot lay an egg.”</p> <p>stefanthedenier underestimates himself. He covers everything he touches with egg.</p> <p>One example:</p> <p>“2] the highest temp on Antarctic was recorded at -86C, but average in winter is -75C. On Antarctic NEVER even gets close to ice melting point.”<br /> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/12/lomborg-tells-bangladesh-not-to-worry-about-sea-level-rise/#comment-620310">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/12/lomborg-tells-bangladesh-n…</a> #71</p> <p>Aside from the insanity of claiming that the highest temperature ever recorded is lower than the winter average, removing the egg stains shows this:</p> <p>“The warmest temperature ever recorded on the continent of Antarctica may have occurred on Tuesday, March 24, 2015, when the mercury shot up to 63.5°F (17.5°C) at Argentina's Esperanza Base on the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula. According to weather records researcher Maximiliano Herrera, the previous hottest temperature recorded in Antarctica was 63.3°F (17.4°C) set just one day previously at Argentina's Marambio Base, on a small islet just off the coast of the Antarctic Peninsula. Prior to this week's remarkable heat wave, the hottest known temperature in Antarctica was the 62.8°F (17.1°C) recorded at Esperanza Base on April 24, 1961.”<br /> <a href="http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2944&amp;cm_ven=tw-jm">http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2944…</a> </p> <p>The difference between the bird's highest ever temperature claim of -86°C and the measured +17.5°C is a modest 103.5°C.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463446&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kSmoC3-fHEbmzbc65vqCALb_udL60YfW97JsazQR1ZA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cosmicomics (not verified)</span> on 27 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463446">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463447" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427531842"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think he's more of the 'Time Cube' style crank.</p> <p>Don't bother engaging.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463447&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XfY-AAePQIHo7TKl5t3JxCMfE9ZyBOgsh2aAnHHfcxk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MobiusKlein (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463447">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463448" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427532120"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ ^ MobiusKlein : Spoilsport!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463448&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mky3lHh8Ta2WGLZVL4ykN4DtZCKvIIjonrCiOHvntXs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463448">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463449" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427532251"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But yeah. Timecube "style" for sure. </p> <p>Still not 100% sure whether he's for real or just doing a Poe. That number of comical mistakes can't be other than deliberate can it? </p> <p>(Have you seen his blog , I mean its hard on the eyes and all but still ..)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463449&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="609XSBf055HrlSsP-tPz6dhxKvsJK1dBMvEI-YyPres"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Astrostevo (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463449">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463450" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427539757"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What's remarkable about Stefan's comments, given the many grammatical irregularities in them, is how rarely he misspells a word. Out of curiosity, I examined his "Cooling Earth" post from July 2014. I compiled a list of misspelled words:</p> <p>1. liveable<br /> 2. travelling<br /> 3. cancelled<br /> 4. aircrafts<br /> 5. ignorants<br /> 6. lonwave (page 5, only instance among multiple correct spellings)<br /> 7. misleadings<br /> 8. wooffy</p> <p>So, in that entire tract of 13,850 words, only three words are actually misspelled, and one of those is arguably correct — as with the British usage "ageing". Another, "lonwave," is a simple typo.</p> <p>I was working on the idea that he might be an unusually persistent Poe. But I decided he's not. He's been at it too long. He left a message on WUWT in August 2011. He ended that with: "Please help, plus keep this text for a record. I and the laws of physics, we are never wrong."</p> <p>Page 19 of the "Cooling Earth" post yields a possible name: Stefan Mitich.</p> <p><i>"My theories / ”Stefan Mitich theories” will win; because the truth always wins on the end. Spread the good news to the public, that: the phony ”global” warming is just that, phony! Both camps are barking up the same wrong tree!"</i></p> <p>Searching on that name led me to a Facebook page. It's nearly bare, but there is an icon under favorite activities with the caption "Against global warming." So, FWIW, it looks like this is the right Stefan Mitich.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463450&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dW2xEvOaflKwKBxzW7Rh1-3cNELZ5w1shSqCg4E56HI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christopher Winter (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463450">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463451" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427542225"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Please, there's no reason to dig past the pseudonym and publicize the poor fool's real name. It's irrelevant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463451&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7pyy1iBAOOUX9mxajJP4tnRoxg26gtsB1ZB_iqOVEfE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dhogaza (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463451">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463452" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427550887"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sealioning. Look it up, people. Sealions often are very literate. Don't be led into his trap.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463452&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KPyf0izmDOGXBxYMY5Y0byU109uDC8hwBb1I8syLtnw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brainstorms (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463452">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463453" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427558145"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Knock, Knock! Coming on board! Awesome read (article and comments). Diverse thoughts and interests. For sake of transparency, I subscribe to the belief of climatic changes and warming resulting from anthropogenic origins. Caveat: always interesting to hear all sides of the equation--causes equals effect. Karma. No matter what the causes, no matter what the resulting effect, I'm open to both sides of the discussion. My interest in the Antarctic is due to my concerns of the rapid melting of the Arctic Ocean, of which, I am a lifelong resident of the Arctic Circle. As the saying goes, one can't go without the other, likewise I hope to learn more of the Antarctic ice sheet and shelf's to better compare what the future holds for the Arctic Ocean. I do understand that most of the ice of the Antarctic continent sits on mountainous land mass which are raised thousands of feet above sea level, as opposed to the frozen Arctic Ocean which is frozen water that is rapidly melting. The Arctic Ocean is not composed of any land mass but a solid piece of frozen water, if you will, except for Greenland. For me to best understand the dynamics of the melting Arctic Ocean is to compare with what is, and is happening with the Antarctic ice sheet and shelf's. The two are inseparable in such that they represent the opposite poles of this Earth. Otherwise, convince me that this is a flat earth. Given they operate under slightly different dynamics, conditions, and perhaps gravitational anomalies. So, can anyone offer any comparative likenesses or differences such as; apples to oranges, or, golden to red apples? What does anyone know with what is happening in the Arctic Ocean in comparison to Antarctic?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463453&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9oy2wKuSiS7G93B4qfOMRavOII_7YaGbPa8m1G8ThCU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Top of the World (not verified)</span> on 28 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463453">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463454" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427610076"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Very Interesting article!<br /> Out of interest ,by how much would the rate of melting in those specific margins need to increase in order for the ice sheets to deteriorate into nothing (in other words melt completely), and would this even be a possibility?</p> <p>u15000304</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463454&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zvS40SzWQ1rqYN7rS6vMGExuG99vZjHX9XI63eA9NmI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">KA Flynn (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463454">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463455" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427611646"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Very interesting blog! climate change and the effects thereof appear to have gone out of media interest in the last few years and it is good to see hard, scientific evidence to prove climate change is still happening. These statistics are alarming and may need us to have a look at our safety measures as the sea level begins to rise due to the melting of the ice shelves. do you have an suggestions? or are these measures unnecessary?<br /> u15028047</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463455&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P1GO0_KSMTChpS4Pwaob4skdnmaYuT5G1xbpm_aUrGc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dean Carlisle (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463455">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463456" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427622418"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Although this blog contains valid information regarding the rate of change in ice shelves, I would like to know about the direct impact on rising sea levels, and what negative effects this will have on life on earth. In other words how will these changes in sea levels impact the population, civilization and economy on different continents.<br /> @Dean Carlisle, I do think we should rather focus on the problem rather than trying to implement safety measures.<br /> u15007970</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463456&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LnHJcP63Z8DoL6IdFdTY_ePrxXJNfglTFxmmYjnzUNs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Celize Gomes (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463456">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463457" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427624344"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"This is one of the places, probably the place at present, where melting accelerated by human caused greenhouse gas pollution occurs."</p> <p>If the rate at which the ice shelves melt is influenced by greenhouse gas pollution, then what causes East Antarctica to continue experiencing an (overall) increase in the thickness of its ice shelves, whereas in West Antarctica the ice shelves disintegrate rapidly?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463457&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OGQDOQjBXWxWCChfSmPMnIvRthdca93M5xwx9fb-buM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TN Mphateng (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463457">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463458" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427624736"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"This is one of the places, probably the place at present, where melting accelerated by human caused greenhouse gas pollution occurs."</p> <p>If the rate at which the ice shelves melt is influenced by greenhouse gas pollution, then what causes East Antarctica to continue experiencing an (overall) increase in the thickness of its ice shelves, whereas in West Antarctica the ice shelves disintegrate rapidly?</p> <p>12230937</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463458&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FnSj-oVLHqlr_eEzkj7fxqjp_Uiof1KwrsVhN-vGX2o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TN Mphateng (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463458">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463459" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427625471"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Antarctic has not been experiencing thickening of ice shelves. </p> <p>In order to understand this, and not misrepresent it, a few things have to be made clear.</p> <p>There are three kinds of ice in Antarctic: Glacial ice sitting on the continent, ice shelves, which make up only a small part of the glacial ice and mostly sit on the sea surface (but are grounded as well on rock), and sea ice. </p> <p>Sea ice has been increasing in Antarctica but that is a minor factor and has nothing to do with sea level rise. The reasons for this expansion are not clear but many experts think it has to do with freshening of water from glacial melt and changes in precip in the area, but mainly wind patterns shifting which push frozen sea surface ice out away from the continent leaving sea surface behind to freeze over. It is a little like rolling out a pizza dough, but wind instead of a roller and ice instead of pizza dough. </p> <p>This post is about the ice shelves. While they do sit on water and thus their melting does not contributed much to sea level rise, they are not perfectly sitting on the sea so there probably is some contribution. But that is not the point. </p> <p>Ice shelves have formed at the sea-side outlets of major inland glaciers. The ice shelves hold back the glacier from moving towards the sea. As the ice shelves retreat or break up this effect is reduced and the land based glaciers are more likely to fall apart and contribute to sea level rise. </p> <p>That is the main point of the post, and to repeat what I wrote already: "Antarctic’s glaciers are surrounded by a number of floating ice shelves. The ice shelves are really the distal reaches of the moving glaciers floating over the ocean. This is one of the places, probably the place at present, where melting accelerated by human caused greenhouse gas pollution occurs. The ice shelves are fixed in place along their margins (they typically cover linear fjord like valleys) and at a grounding point underneath the shelf some distance form the ice margin but under sea level.</p> <p>The collapse or disintegration of an ice shelf is thought to lead to the more rapid movement of the corresponding glacial mass towards the sea, and increased melting. This is the big problem right now with estimating the rate of glacial melting in the Antarctic. This is not a steady and regular process, as rapid disintegration of an ice shelf is possible. Most likely, Antarctic glacial melting over the coming decades will involve occasional catastrophic of an ice shelf followed by more rapid glacial melting at that point."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463459&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8OhRw5aY4Op5OaMMFQgxUXTM7rD6GlEd7zH0byR7tdk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463459">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463460" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427634413"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does sea surface temperature in the equatorial Pacific Ocean that influences an El Nino or La Nina events factor to the melting or cooling of the Antarctic Ice Shelves or sea ice? Or the degrees of separation between the equatorial belt and Antarctic a factor that does not cause any Antarctic ice melting or cooling? </p> <p>Any thoughts or considerations taken how the fluctuating Ozone hole may factor into the melting of the ice? At this point, more thoughts of potential contributing factors than factual dialogue on my part.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463460&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ab7TFHUdGzhb3oqRBBFUG_QUY4oKAVMH9u0GFa_UU1s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Top of the World (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463460">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463461" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427637417"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Actually, the ozone hole is probably responsible for the afore mentioned winds: <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/09/why-is-antarctic-sea-ice-at-record-levels-despite-global-warming">http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/09/why-is-antarctic-sea…</a></p> <p>El Nino probably is associated with increasing melting : <a href="http://www.washington.edu/news/2011/04/10/west-antarctic-warming-triggered-by-warmer-sea-surface-in-tropical-pacific/">http://www.washington.edu/news/2011/04/10/west-antarctic-warming-trigge…</a></p> <p>Pine Island, for example, has been thinning continuously since the 1970s due to overall warming, but does so more during El Nino.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463461&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZGqIgpgdbZcBnigPKLeX3bdNhMp-n6eLmcSLEKAU3WQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463461">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463462" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427645691"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Out of curiosity, I examined his “Cooling Earth” post from July 2014. I compiled a list of misspelled words:</p></blockquote> <blockquote><p>He left a message on WUWT in August 2011. He ended that with: “Please help, plus keep this text for a record. I and the laws of physics, we are never wrong.”</p></blockquote> <p>Christopher Winter #34, you are one sick fuck with waayy too much time on your hands. You have promising job security working for NSA.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463462&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="emR16vs5tq5b62LbppbutSA7mhob53Jo6CmAkfPg9PA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Élan vital (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463462">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463463" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427646298"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I don't know (though, I have my suspicions) why *Tim* got banned, but I note his misguided justification here as I'm also a sick fuck with too much time on his hands: </p> <p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/03/04/ipcc-the-politics-of-bureaucracies-pachauris-bizarre-tip-of-iceberg/#comment-1876176">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/03/04/ipcc-the-politics-of-bureaucracie…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463463&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EvxzhkBeBjMNMtncnNNjnaj6_6SsKOt7o82v5b03x3U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Élan vital (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463463">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463464" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427655738"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Christopher Winter @34<br /> hello Chris, don't blame me; if is not enough misspellings - Mr. Bill Gates is to blame, somebody made the spellchecker...</p> <p>you could have done more constructive time; to analyze my proofs instead! Grammar is bad - does it really matter to you? b] yes, that was my place on facebook - I forgot even the password, no time to waste there. - i can see some boys are arguing there about football, good on them. i like relax people that tell jokes - if you want, join them - I;m not interested in football</p> <p>Regarding grammar: I look for appropriate English word in the dictionary - small dictionary, when the word is not there - i look for similar word - then needs rearranging the sentence... Instead: you speck English - you should put the text correctly! (only if you had upbringing like me: to respect the honest, and despise people that are chronic, compulsive, pathetic liars)<br /> P.s. the day somebody made my blog - he pointed me to Watt's blog and said: this is the most popular blog - tell them what you know. I pointed to him that he is wrong, and explained why -&gt; he blacklisted me. I realized that dishonest people are running the show, not interested in truth</p> <p>Chris, when somebody tries to ''reconstruct'' GLOBAL temp from 80 thermometers data from 1660's = that person is very dishonest, even if he is your twin brother b] I remember, then: your Anthony Watts was complaining that: ''one thermometer on Antarctic was wrongly positioned'' That shocked me; because: if that thermometer was correctly positioned - CAN couple of thermometers on Antarctic tell the temp for 25% of the planet - because the next thermometers are in Australia, Chile and Hawaii = he is a con! One thermometer cannot tell correctly the temp for one room - because close to the floor is 1C colder than closer to the sealing; relying on few thermometers for the WHOLE planet - is the grandmother of all lies. When he is presenting himself as a ''skeptic'' that is double con!!! cheers!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463464&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5U7IJdFeEkOz48i9i18Kq8O_pIwo6qYahrjy3K6PAFQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stefanthedenier (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463464">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463465" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427673110"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Chris, when somebody tries to ”reconstruct” GLOBAL temp from 80 thermometers data from 1660’s = that person is very dishonest"</p> <p>and yet, scientists can show that around 50 well-placed stations are enough to capture the same trend as shown by 1000s. After all, it is not about the exact temperature, but the *trend* in those temperatures.</p> <p>Regarding English, you should remember that gibberish cannot be understood, so if you write gibberish, we cannot critique the content of your writing, because it is gibberish and therefore the content cannot be determined.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463465&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L0mv9sWX7rIfSpIXWxy76Djj1Uppw9OzhJ6-13dTtQs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463465">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463466" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427679729"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I think it is sad how somebody can attack science in such a way, not showing respect for someone else's hard work. How does @stefanthedenier expect us to respect his work?<br /> I would like to know more about the impact of these glaciers melting on the living beings currently inhabiting these regions? I doubt saying that global warming doesn't exist, without giving any scientific evidence, it a worthy statement at all. We have to open our eyes and realize that this in fact a problem which we have to face, soon!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463466&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jFmXrRPVoYsyUs5CpdvltvrO4WCUW-htdwxAcoGPuzM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mieke van Staden (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463466">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463467" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427683506"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A Short Language Lesson</p> <p>Your language background largely determines the mistakes you make when using a foreign language. The greater the structural difference from your own language(s), the more mistakes you're liable to make.</p> <p>Slavic languages have numerous cases, and this results in a different word order than in English. For Slavic language speakers, English word order is not natural.</p> <p>Slavic languages don't have articles. Learners who speak languages with articles, e.g. Danish or French, have to concentrate on the examples where English usage differs from their own, but <i>a</i> and <i>the</i> are an integral part of their language thinking. Slavic language speakers have to learn what articles are, and how they're used.</p> <p>Slavic verbs contain the pronoun and are not redundant. Italian is the same. The verb ending changes according to the person/subject, and is audible, so the verb tells you who/what the person/subject is. In other words, you don't have to say I, you, he/she/it etc., because that information is already contained in the verb. Danish avoids redundancy in another way. The English equivalent would be: I am, you am, he/she/it am, etc. The verb remains the same, so naming the person provides us with necessary information. French, on the other hand, is redundant. The verb endings aren't always audible, so you also have to specify the pronoun. For Slavic language speakers <i>is good</i> instead of <i>it is good</i> is a natural extension of the verbal structure of their own languages.</p> <p>Prepositions are often a problem. Idioms too.</p> <p>Most spelling mistakes can be caught by a spellchecker.</p> <p>In short, if you know something about language, it's usually easy to tell the difference between mistakes that are made by native speakers and those that are made by foreigners. stefanthedenier's English is poor, but not abnormal. His pronouncements on climate change are stark raving mad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463467&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lH61NPf41z1mbEfjP2IkIhPrK7qGXhYPOPzRZNBJZ-g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cosmicomics (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463467">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463468" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427687796"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>An interesting read! Climate change is a huge problem nowadays and it is good to see people creating awareness like this.<br /> I think a great thing to add to this blog would be the impacts of the melting of the ice shelves on the animal and plant life in the area as well as the people living in the area.<br /> This would raise more awareness. </p> <p>u15045791</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463468&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iY1j6go8u1aIqBbuEOmC54vHxQCQaSzLqM0KRB_hRvY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">CJ Rymer (not verified)</span> on 29 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463468">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463469" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427689800"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The sea ice causes Antarctic to grow,but isn't it these kind off ice that smelts first as global warming increases and therefor the sea level rises?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463469&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qT-nTc3Lkg2bK1r9LyWwNzIqYad4u_qPV5m_ntga3J0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Su-mari Hoogenboezem (u15005306)">Su-mari Hoogen… (not verified)</span> on 30 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463469">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463470" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427705933"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would just like to state the following about glacier ice:<br /> 1.As we know ice is less dense than water and when it comes under pressure, say from when gravity pulls down layers of ice on each other from more than 10 kilometres, the pressure forces the water molecules closer to each other causing ice to melt and form water. If pressure is high enough this can happen at below zero degrees Celsius.<br /> 2.The melted ice at the bottom of a glacier is what removes friction and also carries the ice downward to the ocean.<br /> 3.If temperature increases then the amount of melted ice will increase. This will decrease friction and cause the glacier to move faster.<br /> 4.The reason why we depict the falling of glacier ice as symbolic of global warming is not directly visible and can rather be reasoned logically. As I said, when the temperature increases, the amount of water beneath the glacier increases. This water also ends up n the ocean, of course. The water also causes the glaciers to move faster due to less friction between the glacier and the surface below and also between the ice layers. This causes more ice to end up in the ocean during the same time interval. The ice taking up to months, if not years, to melt will very steadily increase the surface level of the oceans.<br /> 5.A possible reason for the large increase in surface levels is that global warming has a global result, i.e. all glaciers are affected.<br /> UP Student number: 15086187</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463470&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I5ffOT5u1mlYzKbnMRtdxpd_yJxHgqx9tgTJn_of_9E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wiehan Rudolph (not verified)</span> on 30 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463470">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463471" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427710009"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Pardon my ignorance, but what is up with these *U*-numbers? Are you guys enslaved in a sweat-shop and forced to pump out 'yes men' comments touting catastrophic anthropogenic climate change?? </p> <p>Is it some kind of license for internet access? I guess, it is the shape of things to come; But, for now, it is creeping me the fuck out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463471&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ANLxD3yhlYztbrUuQd8N6CTm8elSK-bvoSkOw4062dw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Élan vital (not verified)</span> on 30 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463471">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1463472" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427712878"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Elan, I doubt it. I'm guessing that there is a project at UP where students are asked to go out and engage in some bloggy conversation or another, and part o their documentation involves leaving their UP ID number. </p> <p>Welcome UP students! You know, there was a brief time when I was on the faculty at UP.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463472&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I-JxLFNA_xcelDdbrI1Jtn05e15J0YAhXwSdbEjkT1Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 30 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463472">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463473" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427717799"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A growing academic and environmental concern and scientific fact is the increasing Ocean Acidification of the Arctic Ocean and the waters of the Circumpolar Arctic. Any thoughts or concerns that this is also happening in the Southern Ocean, or waters encircling Antarctic? If so, and how this may factor towards further warming or causing increased melting of the sea, shelf, and glacial ice of Antarctica?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463473&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0TVhMUIEmy34r7mKMr_2d4dG2ZkkhLPwxTw1an7kJzU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Top of the World (not verified)</span> on 30 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463473">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463474" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427726438"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Randolph brings a thought of gravity and frictional forces (#2) at play between the glaciers and underwater land surface. Where the melted glacier water becomes the frictional fluid to allow the glacier ice to fall into the ocean or sea water. So, overtime does the underwater land surface becomes sloped where glacier ice slides downhill by the pull of gravity? I too have to engage in a blog conversation relevant to my studies, and have picked this site to help me compare the melting Antarctic ice with the melting ice of the Arctic Ocean. And have learned accordingly of the probable causes and dynamics contributing to the melting of the Antarctic ice. This blog conversation helps what other experiences are, and the perspectives and knowledge of contributing bloggers helps quicken the learning curve.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463474&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BiEs9V2s7bvXt8dnp_hcd0TTG0qmGeiMxuvyKew85WI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Top of the World (not verified)</span> on 30 Mar 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463474">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463475" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427881050"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@cosmicomics (#51):</p> <p>Thanks for the language lesson. I knew that Russian (Stefanthedenier's native language, apparently) doesn't use articles; this is apparent from hearing anyone pretending to be a Russian speaking English.</p> <p>Certainly a spell-checker can fix misspelled words. But it cannot fix the homonym problem (e.g. using the wrong one of [to, too, two].) Stefan manages to avoid misusing homonyms as well as making ordinary spelling errors. Maybe he's using Microsoft's grammar checker as well as its spell-checker. Or maybe he spends a lot of time referring to that dictionary he mentioned.</p> <p>@Stefan: I think the fact that you avoid these mistakes when writing English is a good thing. If I tried to write in Russian I wouldn't do as well.</p> <p>But correct grammar is also important. Without it, getting your point across becomes difficult to impossible. That said, a certain amount of error can be forgiven if the writer is not a native speaker of the language he's using.</p> <p>Your bigger problem is that you misunderstand the subject you are writing about. I realize now that it's an honest misunderstanding. You are still wrong about climate change. No matter how unpleasant the prospects it brings, it is a fact that this planet is getting warmer because of what we humans are doing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463475&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1NP9vd5iyFtNkqOn1qzgcbhPpt7yu5KFLDuLVoizWbA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Christopher Winter (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463475">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463476" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1427984646"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Environmental changes caused by human factors, including the release of high amounts of green house gases will have a great impact on the marine organisms, ecosystems as well as on humans. The melting of glaciers also impacts polar bears and the rise in sea levels poses a great threat to human settlements. It would be a good idea to research the extent of the rise in sea levels in different areas so that different countries can prepare in advance for such dramatic changes. This is part of safety and precautionary measures. What safety precautions should be taken by the leaders of the countries at this stage? How can we reduce the extent of environmental changes and counter-act the problems we have already created to minimise the after-effects such as the rise in sea levels? Thank you for your time! u15007473</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463476&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7vwU7i1HMiPObes8MZ3A4uxma0IP4ajF4GzDmIfVhrs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sarah J (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463476">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463477" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428497970"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As seen in the picture above the effect of global warming is not to be taken lightly! The area that is effected mostly by global warming is the Articercle and just a handful of people live their and see the effects of it! Because we do not yet see consequences of global warming in our own back yard people are not concern about it. That's the sad thing about people today if something don't effect them directly they don't really care about it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463477&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xntLC0_z1gI39dGX_tAh2Jh5asraidsgln0JdtBtBr8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Heinrich(14124506) (not verified)</span> on 08 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463477">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463478" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428500308"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>We cannot say that global warming isn't real due to all the evidence pointing straight at it. The map for one is a clear indication that global warming cannot be ignored. This planet's temperatures are rising and we cannot ignore it just because people doesn't see the effect it has on the bigger picture but they choose to rather live in their own small world.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463478&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y8UcqS6uCaeZHzsWw7EMXL3mk6U9MUKhJ5FIuYux0JQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">H van Eeden 15009085 (not verified)</span> on 08 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463478">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463479" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428809308"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The fact that the rate of melting ice shelves is accelerating is really concerning. This just highlights the extent to which global warming is affecting the Earth. It saddens me too see the severity of of the effects human life has on this planet. U.S. As humans need to do something to better the situations at hand or the Earths future is bound to be a dull one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463479&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VyB3uyowsVGxodHdXMeVtGMR-rsjGbPMaJ8PGhgCxss"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Varaidzo Sabeta (not verified)</span> on 11 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463479">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463480" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428809343"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The fact that the rate of melting ice shelves is accelerating is really concerning. This just highlights the extent to which global warming is affecting the Earth. It saddens me too see the severity of of the effects human life has on this planet. U.S. As humans need to do something to better the situations at hand or the Earths future is bound to be a dull one.<br /> U15036962</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463480&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ho0ukSj7lj1QgQ0E_rph6BoPoE1ctaNAG2xXZtXpJL0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Varaidzo Sabeta (not verified)</span> on 11 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463480">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463481" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428819244"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is a very concerning problem and I feel that if something is not done about this soon, that severe problems will occur. The problems might not seem that alarming now, but am I correct in saying that there will be severe problems in the future?</p> <p>I would just like to know what systems and measures are in play that are aiding this problem, and why has it taken so long for this to be notcied and addressed? </p> <p>Has Global warming and the ice shelves melting not been occuring for quite a while and due to human interaction accelerating at speeds that i think if not changed soon will be to severe to handle.</p> <p>Please can people get back to me on my questions and shed some more light on this serious topic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463481&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P0LdoPrOyg6nuy1ba-Hr-nUDXLRl-qk8JPjjGU5mnsQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Ethanne Liam Soar (u14148898)">Ethanne Liam S… (not verified)</span> on 12 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463481">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463482" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1428825112"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's really ridiculous how the rate at which the glaciers are melting has increased. We all know what effect rising sea levels has on the environment and yet little is being done to stop this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463482&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FATA-QinIU56jF3fkXB8oo7BmgamvFERKURl2P-x0Ns"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joan K (not verified)</span> on 12 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463482">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463483" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1429110468"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The result of glaciers melting has a big effect on the sea level which also leads to further implications. In my opinion global warming is the main reason for this problem. Why have we not noticed this earlier? As the melting of the glaciers increases so does the tempo of the melting so in other words the melting process speeds up. This is a big concern and solutions have to be found.<br /> 15099483</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463483&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0iSqDOkdS3XLdyc6acC4ezQIGz7l0ZvWeiroJAYsP2k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andre Kolver (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463483">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463484" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1429237435"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I believe that we have to act really fast so that we can try and fix the mess we made! Not just for us but for sea life and animals living in those areas. 15055940</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463484&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X_unfNmAcllkrc8bU114gU8Akrphdg_Q679zGPeoe6k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johannes (not verified)</span> on 16 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463484">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463485" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1429266095"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>How is it that that the ice is melting at an accelerating rate yet the winters we experience here in South Africa seem to be getting more excruciating as the years go by?<br /> (15044204)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463485&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8YnCyAF8mcU_YCjjW7CBeTstdfSaVexoklQp00nlD6g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gontse M. (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463485">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1463486" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1429267575"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The melting of the polar ice caps is probably the most concerning effect of global warming. I find it interesting that the rate of thickness change is predominately worse in West Antarctica. Is there a reason for this?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1463486&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zsL_Eme7e19-41mMzUcdOpw3ooUUu2HNaz2EJWNJkcA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="M.R Revolta (u15137229)">M.R Revolta (u… (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1463486">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2015/03/26/antarctic-ice-shelf-melt%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:35:51 +0000 gregladen 33531 at https://scienceblogs.com Caltech: Robotic Ocean Gliders Discover Why Antarctic Polar Ice is Melting https://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2014/11/caltech-robotic-ocean-gliders-discover-why-antarctic-polar-ice-is-melting <span>Caltech: Robotic Ocean Gliders Discover Why Antarctic Polar Ice is Melting</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dear Readers,</p> <p>Find below an interesting press release I may as well share verbatim:</p> <blockquote><p>The rapidly melting ice sheets on the coast of West Antarctica are a potential major contributor to rising ocean levels worldwide. Although warm water near the coast is thought to be the main factor causing the ice to melt, the process by which this water ends up near the cold continent is not well understood.</p> <p>Using robotic ocean gliders, Caltech researchers have now found that swirling ocean eddies, similar to atmospheric storms, play an important role in transporting these warm waters to the Antarctic coast—a discovery that will help the scientific community determine how rapidly the ice is melting and, as a result, how quickly ocean levels will rise.</p> <p>Their findings were published online on November 10 in the journal Nature Geoscience.</p> <p>"When you have a melting slab of ice, it can either melt from above because the atmosphere is getting warmer or it can melt from below because the ocean is warm," explains lead author <a href="http://www.gps.caltech.edu/content/andrew-f-thompson" target="_blank">Andrew Thompson</a>, assistant professor of environmental science and engineering. "All of our evidence points to ocean warming as the most important factor affecting these ice shelves, so we wanted to understand the physics of how the heat gets there."</p> <p>Ordinarily when oceanographers like Thompson want to investigate such questions, they use ships to lower instruments through the water or they collect ocean temperature data from above with satellites. These techniques are problematic in the Southern Ocean. "Observationally, it's a very hard place to get to with ships. Also, the warm water is not at the surface, making satellite observations ineffective," he says.</p> <p>Because <a href="http://web.gps.caltech.edu/%7Eandrewt/gentoo/about.html" target="_blank">the gliders</a> are small—only about six feet long—and are very energy efficient, they can sample the ocean for much longer periods than large ships can. When the glider surfaces every few hours, it "calls" the researchers via a mobile phone–like device located on the tail. This communication allows the researchers to almost immediately access the information the glider has collected.</p> <p>Like airborne gliders, the bullet-shaped ocean gliders have no propeller; instead they use batteries to power a pump that changes the glider's buoyancy. When the pump pushes fluid into a compartment inside the glider, the glider becomes denser than seawater and less buoyant, thus causing it to sink. If the fluid is pumped instead into a bladder on the outside of the glider, the glider becomes less dense than seawater—and therefore more buoyant—ultimately rising to the surface. Like airborne gliders, wings convert this vertical lift into horizontal motion.</p> <p>Thompson and his colleagues from the University of East Anglia dropped their gliders into the ocean off the coast of the Antarctic Peninsula <a href="http://www.caltech.edu/content/caltech-oceanographer-tests-new-technology-bottom-earth" target="_blank">in January 2012</a>; the robotic vehicles then spent the next two months moving up and down through the water column—diving a kilometer below the surface of the water and back up again every few hours—exploring the Weddell Sea off the coast of Antarctica. As the gliders traveled, they collected temperature and salinity data at different locations and depths of the sea.</p> <p>The glider's up and down capability is important for studying ocean stratification, or how water characteristics, such as density, change with depth, Thompson says. "If it was only temperature that determined density, you'd always have warm water at the top and cold water at the bottom. But in the ocean you also have to factor in salinity; the higher the salinity is in the water, the more dense that water is and the more likely it is to sink to the bottom," he says.</p> <p>In Antarctica the combined effects of temperature and salinity create an interesting situation, in which the warmest water is not on top, but actually sandwiched in the middle layers of the water column. "That's an additional problem in understanding the heat transport in this region," he adds. You can't just take measurements at the surface, he says. "You actually need to be taking a look at that very warm temperature layer, which happens to sit in the middle of the water column. That's the layer that is actually moving toward the ice shelf."</p> <p>The results from the gliders revealed that the heat was actually coming from a less predictable source: eddies, swirling underwater storms that are caused by ocean currents.</p> <p>"Eddies are instabilities that are caused by ocean currents, and we often compare their effect on the ocean to putting a spoon in your coffee," Thompson says. "If you pour milk in your coffee and then you stir it with a spoon, the spoon enhances your ability to mix the milk into the coffee and that is what these eddies do. They are very good at mixing heat and other properties."</p> <p>Because the gliders could dive and surface every few hours and remain at sea for months, they were able to see these eddies in action—something that ships and satellites had previously been unable to capture.</p> <p>"Ocean currents are variable, and so if you go just one time, what you measure might not be what the current looks like a day later. It's sort of like the weather—you know it's going to be warm in the summer and cold in the winter, but on a day-to-day basis it could be cold in the summer just because a storm came in," Thompson says. "Eddies do the same thing in the ocean, so unless you understand how the temperature of currents is changing from day to day—information we can actually collect with the gliders—then you can't understand what the long-term heat transport is."</p> <p>In future work, Thompson plans to couple meteorological data with the data collected from his gliders. In December, the team will use ocean gliders to study a rough patch of ocean between the southern tip of South America and Antarctica, called the Drake Passage, as a surface robot, called a Waveglider, collects information from the surface of the water. "With the Waveglider, we can measure not just the ocean properties, but atmospheric properties as well, such as wind speed and wind direction. So we'll get to actually see what's happening at the air-sea interface."</p> <p>In the Drake Passage, deep waters from the Southern Ocean are "ventilated"—or emerge at the surface—a phenomenon specific to this region of the ocean. That makes the location important for understanding the exchange of carbon dioxide between the atmosphere and the ocean. "The Southern Ocean is the window through which deep waters can actually come up to 'see' the atmosphere"—and it's also a window for oceanographers to more easily see the deep ocean, he says. "It's a very special place for many reasons."</p> <p>The work with ocean gliders was published in a paper titled "Eddy transport as a key component of the Antarctic overturning circulation." Other authors on the paper include Karen J. Heywood of the University of East Anglia, Sunke Schmidtko of GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research-Kiel, and Andrew Stewart, a former postdoctoral scholar at Caltech who is now at UCLA. Thompson's glider work was supported by an award from the National Science Foundation and the UK's Natural Environment Research Council; Stewart was supported by the President's and Director's Fund program at Caltech.</p> <p># # #</p> <p>Written by Jessica Stoller-Conrad</p></blockquote> <p>Also be sure to check out related multi-media at <a href="https://mediaassets.caltech.edu/oceangliders" target="_blank">https://mediaassets.caltech.<wbr></wbr>edu/oceangliders</a></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/illconsidered" lang="" about="/author/illconsidered" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">illconsidered</a></span> <span>Wed, 11/12/2014 - 07:40</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cryosphere" hreflang="en">cryosphere</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/technology" hreflang="en">Technology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/temperature" hreflang="en">temperature</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ocean-warming" hreflang="en">ocean warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sea-ice" hreflang="en">sea ice</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/environment" hreflang="en">Environment</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1599340" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1420449949"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>XRefs:<br /> <a href="http://climatechangenationalforum.org/making-sense-of-antarctic-sea-ice-changes/">http://climatechangenationalforum.org/making-sense-of-antarctic-sea-ice…</a><br /> <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/12/clarity-on-antarctic-sea-ice/">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/12/clarity-on-antarc…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1599340&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_2kd4CAv4HDF1T95_oOa1iMQepVlfXbyPzkMn66s2M4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Hank Roberts (not verified)</span> on 05 Jan 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1599340">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/illconsidered/2014/11/caltech-robotic-ocean-gliders-discover-why-antarctic-polar-ice-is-melting%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:40:33 +0000 illconsidered 41842 at https://scienceblogs.com Physical Benefits https://scienceblogs.com/weizmann/2013/10/13/physical-benefits <span>Physical Benefits</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Of the four new articles online on our website, three happen, purely by accident, to be on physics research. The three are very different, and yet each is an illustration of the ways that basic physics research changes our world – in small and large, practical and enlightening ways. And each is situated at a different intersection between the technological and the theoretical – a technological breakthrough that resulted from a successful attempt to provide proof for a theoretical construct, new inventions based on elementary physical principles of light, and a theory substantiated through a large array of advanced particle detectors.</p> <p>Take<a title="Interface_Ilani" href="http://wis-wander.weizmann.ac.il/the-smallest-crystal#.UloxtxCq1ko" target="_blank"> the work of Dr. Shahal Ilani</a>. Ilani and his research team created something that had been predicted back in 1934 by Eugene Wigner: an electron crystal. In an electron, or Wigner crystal, individual electrons are held in a fixed configuration by mutual repulsion. Clearly, there are no practical uses, yet, for electron crystals (Ilani’s first, proof-of-concept, crystal consisted of two electrons). One creates them for their own sake – to prove the prediction, and thus a fundamental precept of quantum physics.</p> <p>The challenge was to produce a system so inert that the electrons would only interact with one another; not with any other part of the system. And that has led to a very practical invention. Ilani and his team managed to create their original tiny electron crystals in ultrapure carbon nanotubes. But scaling up the nanotubes to make larger electron crystals was problematic: Adding length increased the probability that electron-attracting defects would be introduced. So Ilani and his team developed a whole new method for producing flawless carbon nanotubes; these are likely to have a number of immediate applications.</p> <div style="width: 310px;display:block;margin:0 auto;"><a href="/files/weizmann/files/2013/10/Ilani_nanotubes.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-677" alt="A system for creating ultrapure nanotubes. Image: Dr. Shahal Ilani" src="http://scienceblogs.com/weizmann/files/2013/10/Ilani_nanotubes-300x259.jpg" width="300" height="259" /></a> A system for creating ultrapure nanotubes. Image: Dr. Shahal Ilani </div> <p><a title="Interface_Oron" href="http://wis-wander.weizmann.ac.il/power-merger#.UloxiRCq1ko" target="_blank">Dr. Dan Oron’s research</a>, in contrast, is eminently practical:  He, too, builds nanocrystals, but these are tiny rod-shaped crystals about 50 nanometers long that can absorb two low-energy photons and emit a high-energy one in their place. This neat trick may enable the design of solar collectors that could make use of a much broader range of the light spectrum.</p> <p>Oron’s research has also led him into biological imaging: A microscopy method he developed uses femtosecond (a millionth of a billionth of a second) laser pulses that start out long and shorten as they penetrate living tissue. He and his colleagues then used these pulses to image excited neurons within mouse brains.</p> <p>But if you look closely at Oron’s work, the advanced technology also illuminates some basic light physics. For example, the nanorods make use of the dual nature of light. They absorb light as individual photons, but are tuned to the wavelength of the light: The radius of each rod is set to a particular wavelength (color). The microscopy, as well, depends, among other things, on a precise understanding of the way that light scatters from a surface.</p> <div style="width: 310px;display:block;margin:0 auto;"><a href="/files/weizmann/files/2013/10/Oron1.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-678" alt="Nanocrystals seen under an electron microscope. Image: Dr. Dan Oron" src="http://scienceblogs.com/weizmann/files/2013/10/Oron1-300x298.jpg" width="300" height="298" /></a> Nanocrystals seen under an electron microscope. Image: Dr. Dan Oron </div> <p><a title="Interface_Waxman" href="http://wis-wander.weizmann.ac.il/visitors-from-across-the-universe#.UloxUBCq1ko" target="_blank">The third article</a> concerns a phenomenon that has no foreseeable practical application: high-energy neutrinos that come from the far reaches of space, passing straight through the earth on their way. Prof. Eli Waxman is a theoretical physicist who, together with the late Prof. John Bahcall, had developed a theory proposing that such cosmic neutrinos originate near certain young black holes, as well as suggesting an upper limit to the number of particles that could be detected. That number is very small because, even though billions of them are passing through at any one instant, only rarely do they interact with matter. Though it did not take 80 years (as it did with the Wigner crystal) for technology to catch up to the theory, several decades did intervene between the original idea and the detection of neutrinos that appear to support Waxman and Bahcall’s model.</p> <p>That technology is quite impressive – not least in size and scope. This is the IceCube experiment, based on some 5,000 detectors buried in a several-kilometer cubic array under the Antarctic ice. It takes an array that large (and isolated from other sources of radiation) to detect a mere handful of neutrinos.</p> <p>Because these neutrinos have traveled straight from their source to the earth, they carry information about how they were produced – a sort of telescope that can peek into the insides of stars. They can thus give us clues as to the very workings of the universe – in other words, basic physics at its finest.</p> <div style="width: 258px;display:block;margin:0 auto;"><a href="/files/weizmann/files/2013/10/icecube.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-679" alt="IceCube detector array " src="/files/weizmann/files/2013/10/icecube.jpg" width="248" height="188" /></a> IceCube detector array </div> <p> </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/jhalper" lang="" about="/author/jhalper" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jhalper</a></span> <span>Sat, 10/12/2013 - 23:47</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/astrophysics" hreflang="en">astrophysics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/basic-research" hreflang="en">basic research</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/nanoscience" hreflang="en">nanoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/optics-0" hreflang="en">Optics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/particle-detectors" hreflang="en">Particle detectors</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/physics" hreflang="en">Physics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quantum-mechanics" hreflang="en">Quantum mechanics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/solar-energy" hreflang="en">solar energy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/dan-oron" hreflang="en">Dan Oron</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/eli-waxman" hreflang="en">Eli Waxman</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/icecube" hreflang="en">IceCube</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/john-bahcall" hreflang="en">John Bahcall</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/laser" hreflang="en">Laser</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/shahal-ilani" hreflang="en">Shahal Ilani</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/wigner-crystal" hreflang="en">Wigner crystal</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/astrophysics" hreflang="en">astrophysics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/basic-research" hreflang="en">basic research</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/physics" hreflang="en">Physics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quantum-mechanics" hreflang="en">Quantum mechanics</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/technology" hreflang="en">Technology</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1909126" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1381881784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>SI was curious if strong gravity and or acceleration can bend light...can photons therefore effect gravity? Is this in general relativity? I only studied special relativity.טודה. שלום</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1909126&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1sbIFt_-JBw37dc4e4zbT5V1afq7Sm-CoA6WW6C2Qrs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Ainoris (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1909126">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="122" id="comment-1909127" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1381894085"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dr. Dan Oron replies:<br /> Gravity affects the trajectory of photons although they are massless. One way to think about this is to redefine mass using energy and momentum, which leads to the definition of a ‘rest mass’ (the mass an object would have if it had no momentum). In fact, “gravitational lensing”, the bending of light by very massive objects, is a tool for identifying massive dark objects in astrophysics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1909127&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eT0CytjU--8a0CnXe0ATJwcL-daHlCJYftHhAPsdm1c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/jhalper" lang="" about="/author/jhalper" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jhalper</a> on 15 Oct 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1909127">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/jhalper"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/jhalper" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1909126#comment-1909126" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Ainoris (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1909128" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1381921809"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yes, photons will affect gravity in that photons possess energy, and energy bends space exactly the same way mass bends space. Good 'ol E=mc^2!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1909128&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jND_uzSLJdZ9GFIFU-01lLBmHVKnGE5UCrRDIcyLDdg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Snover (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1909128">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1909129" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1385348624"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Indeed if that is the.case then could very intense photon beams such as a laser reduce or even cancel gravitational forces ? Maybe this is what dark energy and or matter are....no one knows for sure and it seems like current physics is at a loss to explain . We need another Richard Feynman.... :-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1909129&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TzLFr3wDghpNtxbCAYo2Au2Y79-rEYf6QNyYJKqaCd0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">james ainoris (not verified)</span> on 24 Nov 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1909129">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/weizmann/2013/10/13/physical-benefits%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Sun, 13 Oct 2013 03:47:35 +0000 jhalper 71251 at https://scienceblogs.com Confidence on Warming from IPCC https://scienceblogs.com/seed/2013/10/04/confidence-on-climate-change-from-ipcc <span>Confidence on Warming from IPCC</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The fifth assessment report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was released last week, saying that global warming is occurring without a doubt, and human activity is extremely likely to be the cause.  Greg Laden shares a number of <a title="The IPCC Report in Pictures" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/09/27/the-ipcc-report-in-pictures/" target="_blank">graphics from the report</a>, summarizing "It is getting hotter. It is getting wetter, or dryer, depending on where you are. And the big ice hat our planet wears is falling off."  Peter Gleick collates a number of <a title="What does the 2013 IPCC Summary Say About Water?" href="http://scienceblogs.com/significantfigures/index.php/2013/09/27/what-does-the-2013-ipcc-summary-say-about-water/" target="_blank">excerpts related to water</a> on Significant Figures, which say that there are likely more regions getting more rain than less; the frequency of heavy precipitation events has likely increased in Europe and North America; and monsoons will likely become more intense, widespread, and long-lived.  And on Stoat, William M. Connolley writes that <a title="AR5: cursory review of chapter 4 (cryosphere) mass balance of Antarctica" href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2013/09/30/ar5-cursory-review-of-chapter-4-cryosphere-mass-balance-of-antarctica/" target="_blank">estimations of polar ice loss</a> have been significantly improved by the orbiting satellites of GRACE, which yield detailed gravity maps of the Earth's surface.</p> <p>Posted to <a title="ScienceBlogs" href="http://scienceblogs.com/" target="_blank">the homepage</a> on October 1, 2013.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/milhayser" lang="" about="/author/milhayser" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">milhayser</a></span> <span>Fri, 10/04/2013 - 05:18</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/misc" hreflang="en">Misc</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/grace" hreflang="en">Grace</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ipcc" hreflang="en">IPCC</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/monsoons" hreflang="en">Monsoons</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/precipitation" hreflang="en">precipitation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/weather-weirding" hreflang="en">Weather Weirding</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1899930" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1380976017"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So I read that the big ice hat is falling of. I checked Antarctic ice area to see what it's been doing, and I found that it's been steadily increasing for at least the past 30 years, with this year being the highest in the records. Does this mean it's been getting colder for the past 30 years? If not, then increasing Arctic ice can't be used to demonstrate warming.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1899930&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mlNZDTNLXV1OHbWUiWUdtm0ol-AfjjBh5BzrqKvbq0U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">R James (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1899930">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1899931" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1383936604"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>R. James, I don't know where you are getting your data from. The artic ice are is definitely not increasing and this year is well below the average.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1899931&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4x2wozBCSfxsPThQsXA694CzxjTkEZcuwApBT1-tLnY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike Baldwin (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1899931">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/seed/2013/10/04/confidence-on-climate-change-from-ipcc%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 04 Oct 2013 09:18:51 +0000 milhayser 69189 at https://scienceblogs.com The Science of Melting Ice Sheets: New review in Nature https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/06/the-science-of-melting-ice-sheets-new-review-in-nature <span>The Science of Melting Ice Sheets: New review in Nature</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A paper came out in today’s Nature about glacial melting and its contribution to sea level rise. This paper does not present new research, but rather summarizes and evaluates the last several years of research on modeling and measuring contiental glaciers and their dynamics.</p> <p>From the Abstract:</p> <blockquote><p>Since the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Fourth Assessment Report, new observations of ice-sheet mass balance and improved computer simulations of ice-sheet response to continuing climate change have been published. Whereas Greenland is losing ice mass at an increasing pace, current Antarctic ice loss is likely to be less than some recently published estimates. It remains unclear whether East Antarctica has been gaining or losing ice mass over the past 20 years, and uncertainties in ice-mass change for West Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula remain large. We discuss the past six years of progress and examine the key problems that remain</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="float: left; padding: 5px;"><a href="http://www.researchblogging.org"><img alt="ResearchBlogging.org" src="http://www.researchblogging.org/public/citation_icons/rb2_large_gray.png" style="border:0;" /></a></span>There are many difficulties with measuring and understanding the dynamics of melting of large continental glaciers, the large ice sheets that cover Antarctica and Greenland. As ice melts from these glaciers, they grow lighter and this allows the underlying bedrock to rise up, and conversely, if snow is added to the surface this increases the amount of depression of the underlying bedrock. For this reason you can’t just measure the surface of the ice to estimate how much has been added or removed. When ice melts on the surface, some of it travels down into the glacier and some comes right off the surface. The ice that goes into the glacier may cause deeper ice to melt, or it may provide lubrication to the base of moving streams of ice. As a glacier loses mass at the edge through calving of ice bergs, and the margin retreats away from the sea, the degree of calving, which is an ice-ocean interaction effect probably decreases. Large masses of ice are “grounded” at the outer margin on a “grounding line” beyond which is floating glacier (not sea ice, but large masses of ice undercut by the sea). The grounding line can move towards the sea or away from it, and the dynamics of this movement are complex and difficult to model or measure. Many of the Antarctic grounding lines occur on surfaces that slope downwards in the inland direction, which makes the dynamic a bit more complicated to measure.</p> <p>Major changes that have improved estimates include adding dimensions to some of the models, such as considering both vertical and horizontal forces along grounding lines. Also, newer models use a finer resolution. However, the increase in resolution is thought to be insufficient; current models are not calculated at fine enough resolution to include numerous smaller ice streams that are narrower than the sampling density of the models. </p> <p>It appears that the range of uncertainty of ice-melting models has improved significantly over the years so greater confidence in their predictions may be warranted. The best estimates of future contribution to sea level rise of melting glaciers is still highly variable, however. </p> <p>The current estimates of contributions to sea level rise in mm per year from various studies are between 0.59 and 0.82 from the major ice sheets, between 0.71 and 1.4 for ice caps and glaciers, about 1.1 for thermal expansion, and a negligible but positive amount from changes in terrestrial water storage. These modeled amounts sum to 1.66 mm per year or 3.11 mm per year depending on the set of sources that are used. The observed change in sea level rise over the period from 1993=2008 is 3.22, so there is good agreement though the models are a bit light.</p> <p>These numbers are small, but they are larger than previous estimates and observations. Still, compared to the potential sea level rise when one considers that the ice in the continental glaciers equals several meters of ocean water, near future sea level rise may be expected to be relatively low if these models are correct and account for everything. Over a century of time, this amounts to about 300 mm, or one foot, of sea level rise. If, however, oceans are warming more than the air at present and a few more episodes of that occur over the next century, this may be considered a minimal estimate. One foot does not sound like a lot of sea level rise, but it is enough to remove extant barrier beaches. Also, flood tides would not be increased by one foot, but rather, more exponentially. <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/10/31/peer-reviewed-research-predicted-nyc-subway-flooding-by-sandy/">This is how a sea level rise of about this order of magnitude over the last century managed to contribute to the flooding of the lower Manhattan subway tunnels when the region was struck by Hurricane Sandy last year.</a></p> <p>But there is a problem. Several areas of uncertainty exist in the models that are currently in use, and my impression is that these areas of uncertainty could be associated with dramatic errors in sea level rise estimate. The dynamics of grounding line changes, the role of lubrication at the base of glaciers (which can cause ice streams to speed up on their way to the sea) and the effects of warm currents shifting their position in Antarctic to cause more melt at the boundaries are among those factors that are least known and that have the highest uncertainty. Also, the seaward edge of continental glaciers are not only held in place by their grounding line on the continent, but also by more distal parts of the floating segment of the glaciers being pinned on prominence. As far as I know the effects of pinning being disrupted or lost are not included in any of the models. Also, I’m pretty sure that the effects of sea level rise on grounding and pinning have not been adequately addressed. </p> <p>That these issues may be a problem is empirically suggested. The paleo-record shows that continental ice melting and associated sea level rise may occur in fits and starts, with steady melting punctuated by brief periods of extreme melting. The current models don’t seem to predict this sort of event, though these events probably happen. </p> <p><span class="Z3988" title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&amp;rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&amp;rft.jtitle=Nature&amp;rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1038%2Fnature12238&amp;rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fresearchblogging.org&amp;rft.atitle=Ice-sheet+mass+balance+and+climate+change&amp;rft.issn=0028-0836&amp;rft.date=2013&amp;rft.volume=498&amp;rft.issue=7452&amp;rft.spage=51&amp;rft.epage=59&amp;rft.artnum=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Fdoifinder%2F10.1038%2Fnature12238&amp;rft.au=Hanna%2C+E.&amp;rft.au=Navarro%2C+F.&amp;rft.au=Pattyn%2C+F.&amp;rft.au=Domingues%2C+C.&amp;rft.au=Fettweis%2C+X.&amp;rft.au=Ivins%2C+E.&amp;rft.au=Nicholls%2C+R.&amp;rft.au=Ritz%2C+C.&amp;rft.au=Smith%2C+B.&amp;rft.au=Tulaczyk%2C+S.&amp;rft.au=Whitehouse%2C+P.&amp;rft.au=Zwally%2C+H.&amp;rfe_dat=bpr3.included=1;bpr3.tags=Geosciences%2CEcology+%2F+Conservation%2CClimate+Science%2C+Climate+Change">Hanna, E., Navarro, F., Pattyn, F., Domingues, C., Fettweis, X., Ivins, E., Nicholls, R., Ritz, C., Smith, B., Tulaczyk, S., Whitehouse, P., &amp; Zwally, H. (2013). Ice-sheet mass balance and climate change <span style="font-style: italic;">Nature, 498</span> (7452), 51–59 DOI: <a rev="review" href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature12238">10.1038/nature12238</a></span></p> <p>Photo Credit: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/14465295@N05/4173708608/">christine zenino</a> via <a href="http://compfight.com">Compfight</a> <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/">cc</a></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:50</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-and-weather" hreflang="en">Climate and Weather</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming-1" hreflang="en">Global Warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/glaciers" hreflang="en">glaciers</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/greenland" hreflang="en">Greenland</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ice-loss" hreflang="en">ice loss</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sea-level-rise" hreflang="en">sea level rise</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-and-weather" hreflang="en">Climate and Weather</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1452874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1370523809"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow, Which one is correct? Ice 2sea or this one? Big Difference! I have already been told quite bluntly that most people care a lot more about Wheat and Rice yields apparently enhanced by additional Co2 concentration (Greening Desert Implication #1 as deserts would be last and least affected) than melting sea ice and snail shell thickness! Where is this all going?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1452874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3bQa0U79rkK8R3QdhxZnscxG3tODSL-lzblNe7VFnVg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">socalpa (not verified)</span> on 06 Jun 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1452874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1452875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1370527996"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ice2sea is not a study. This paper is not a study. They therefore can not say two different things. In any event, the Ice2Sea report is cited in this paper, and incorporated in it. It is not in conflict with it. Specifically, "Analytical solutions are now available to test and verify marine ice-sheet models, so that the numerical error associated with predicting grounding-line motion can be reduced significantly to the level of parameter uncertainties39: models that attempt to account for grounding-line dynamics should incorporate horizontal stress transmission across the grounding line, so that the grounded ice sheet realistically feels the influence of floating ice (Box 2). Furthermore, the grounding line needs to be resolved at a sufficiently high spatial resolution." </p> <p>You need to start paying more attention. </p> <p>Your comments about wheat and rice are out of the blue and hardly relevant to the science we are discussion. </p> <p>Where this is all going is that you are getting annoying. </p> <p>("I'm about to be censored because I speak the truth" in 3 ... 2... 1...)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1452875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_GPIL6je4HPMD086qIG1Bvm6_MUGvSnJlmWtvfXbSdU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 06 Jun 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1452875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1452876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1370529411"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wait a minute, Greg, I thought I asked a legitimate question about Ice melt Predictions and sea level rise. I came to this part of your blog because I thought you said sea levels are rising at twice the rate from ten years ago. Sea levels are supposed to have risen seven inches in more than a century .This predicts a foot in another century or five inches past background if I read it correctly. As far as Sandy goes in the tunnel flooding, It also came in at high tide with Lunar Perigee,did it not? If I have to have a PhD to understand all this Fine. I had hoped you could answer questions being asked all over.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1452876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G0bHZvbfaSpdNbjBlP0gYUxwZXygk3Mj5gFhcnlSua0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">socalpa (not verified)</span> on 06 Jun 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1452876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1452877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1370529810"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Socalpa, you might enjoy the book "rising seas" (see right side bar near the top for a link to it).</p> <p>Sandy's would not have flooded the subways had it not been for prior sea level rise. </p> <p>And yes, again, sea level rise rate doubled. There is not a "background" rate of sea level rise. We might expect the rate to increase further, and no current study effectively addresses some of the most likely cause of large scale quick melting of continental glaciers or explains the quasi-periodic sudden melting and sea level rise events we've seen in the past.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1452877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vQkUbq7mJ9-1YNKXn5dpaQvF5F7F3t1L-NYr9YloCUg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 06 Jun 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1452877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1452878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442196777"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here a video how these pulses might happen =&gt; <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71l9lzLsBRc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71l9lzLsBRc</a></p> <p>Also see James Hansen's new meta study, "Ice melt, sea level rise and superstorms: evidence from paleoclimate data, climate modeling, and modern observations that 2 °C global warming is highly dangerous", available here (open access) =&gt; <a href="http://csas.ei.columbia.edu/2015/07/23/ice-melt-sea-level-rise-and-superstorms/">http://csas.ei.columbia.edu/2015/07/23/ice-melt-sea-level-rise-and-supe…</a></p> <p>And here his blog post on the issue =&gt; "Disastrous Sea Level Rise Is an Issue for Today's Public -- Not Next Millennium's"<br /> <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-james-hansen/multi-meter-sea-level-rise-is-an-issue-for-todays-public_b_7875828.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-james-hansen/multi-meter-sea-level-ris…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1452878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yKv-QsVD560_uy-ysoA_fd_5gTyqOXCZ8-SuNDkmdOs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Charlie (not verified)</span> on 13 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1452878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2013/06/06/the-science-of-melting-ice-sheets-new-review-in-nature%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:50:50 +0000 gregladen 32730 at https://scienceblogs.com The Antarctica Files: Studying blogs of Antarctic tourists https://scienceblogs.com/erv/2013/04/03/the-antarctica-files-studying-blogs-of-antarctic-tourists <span>The Antarctica Files: Studying blogs of Antarctic tourists</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HA! A blog post by an <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/tag/antarctica/">Antarctic tourist</a> about a paper studying the blogs of Antarctic tourists!</p> <blockquote><p><a href="http://www.polarresearch.net/index.php/polar/article/view/10905/html">Being there: examining the behaviour of Antarctic tourists through their blogs</a></p></blockquote> <p>*Very* fun idea! If you want to know how tourists are behaving/interacting with environment and wildlife of Antarctica when they visit, you <em>could</em> hitch a ride with a bunch of tour groups and spy on everyone-- <em>or</em> you could sit at home in your warm office and study what these tourists have reported/posted on their blogs!</p> <p>I was momentarily terrified I was quoted at some point for doing something wrong, as I fit the paper criteria-- people who visited Antarctica 2007-2010 and visited <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception_Island">Deception Island</a>. Alas, they stopped collecting June 2010, so I wasnt (we really did try to do everything right). But I went there. I saw the ruins at Whalers Bay. Some in my group went 'swimming' (volcano powered hot-tub- but we didnt dig into the sand. they just ran into the water).</p> <p>And thats what they found-- Most people tried to do things according to the rules, but occasionally and briefly, tourists would screw up, either knowingly or unknowingly. Few/Tiny breaches add up when youre talking about 150,000 visitors a year. I wouldnt trade my Antarctica experience for anything, so I cant begrudge anyone else who wants to visit. So if you are going to Antarctica, try, <em>try</em> to follow the rules, and pressure your boat-mates to do the same... And make sure you blog about it for those of us who cant be there!</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/erv" lang="" about="/erv" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sa smith</a></span> <span>Wed, 04/03/2013 - 06:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/erv/2013/04/03/the-antarctica-files-studying-blogs-of-antarctic-tourists%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:00:10 +0000 sa smith 51902 at https://scienceblogs.com An Inevitable Headline in 2014: "Planet's CO2 level reaches 400 ppm for first time in human existence." https://scienceblogs.com/significantfigures/index.php/2013/03/07/an-inevitable-headline-in-2014-planets-co2-level-reaches-400-ppm-for-first-time-in-human-existence <span>An Inevitable Headline in 2014: &quot;Planet&#039;s CO2 level reaches 400 ppm for first time in human existence.&quot;</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;">Sometime, about one year from now, the front pages of whatever decent newspapers are left will carry a headline like the one above, announcing that for the first time in human existence (or in nearly a million years, or 3 million years, or 15 million years), the global atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide – the principal gas causing climate change – will have passed 400 parts per million.</span></p> <p>That’s a significant and shocking figure. Unfortunately, it is only a temporary marker on the way to even higher and higher levels. Here (Figure 1 below) are the most recent (March 2013) data from the Mauna Loa observatory showing the inexorable increase in atmospheric CO<sub>2</sub> and the rapid approach to 400 ppm.</p> <div style="width: 410px;"><img class="size-medium wp-image-130" alt="Figure 1. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere measured by Scripps/NOAA at Mauna Loa. We're rapidly approaching 400 parts per million." src="http://scienceblogs.com/significantfigures/files/2013/03/MaunaLoaMarch2013-400x305.png" width="400" height="305" /> Figure 1. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere measured by Scripps/NOAA at Mauna Loa. We're rapidly approaching 400 parts per million. </div> <p>There is a range of estimates around the detailed time record of atmospheric composition, and the study of changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations over the billions of years of the Earth’s existence is an exciting area for research. A commonly cited figure with strong evidence comes from measurements of air trapped in ancient ice cores obtained from Antarctic ice. We now have a <a href="http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/ice_core_co2.html" target="_blank">detailed 800,000 year record</a>, which shows clearly that atmospheric CO<sub>2</sub> levels <b>never approached</b> 400 ppm during this period (as shown in Figure 2).</p> <div style="width: 410px;"><img class="size-medium wp-image-131" alt="Figure 2. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, measured over the past 800,000 years. It never came close to 400 ppm. Present day is on the right of the curve." src="http://scienceblogs.com/significantfigures/files/2013/03/Antarctic800000yCO2-400x294.png" width="400" height="294" /> Figure 2. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, measured over the past 800,000 years. It never came close to 400 ppm. Present day is on the right of the curve. </div> <p>In December 2009, a research team from UCLA <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/content/326/5958/1394.abstract" target="_blank">published a paper</a> in <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Science</span> that suggested we would have to go back at least <b>15 million years</b> to find carbon dioxide levels approaching today’s levels. This research used isotopic analysis of shells in deep sea sediments and reported that CO<sub>2</sub> concentrations may not have exceeded 400 parts per million since the Mid-Miocene Climatic Optimum (MMCO) – between 16 and 14 million years ago. The MMCO was associated with reduced planetary ice volumes, global sea levels a huge 25 to 40 meters higher than today, and warmer ocean temperatures. Decreasing CO<sub>2</sub> concentrations after that were associated with substantial global cooling, glaciations, and dropping sea levels.</p> <p>Gavin Schmidt of NASA’s GISS has pointed me to <a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2010PA002055/abstract" target="_blank">research in a December 2011 article</a> in the journal <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Paleoceanography</span> by Gretta Bartoli, Bärbel Hönisch, and Richard E. Zeebe reporting on paleoclimatic records that suggest that CO<sub>2</sub> concentrations (at least in the Northern Hemisphere) may have been around 400 ppm between 2 and 4.6 million years ago. This evidence comes from isotopes measured in planktic foraminifer shells spanning 2.0 to 4.6 million years ago and indicates that atmospheric CO<sub>2</sub> estimates during the Pliocene gradually declined from just above 400 ppm to around 300 ppm in the early Pleistocene 2 million years ago.</p> <p>800,000 years ago? Three million years ago? 15 million years ago? More research will continue to clarify the variability of Earth’s atmospheric composition over time, as well as the impacts for the planet as a whole of screwing with it. [That’s a technical term…]</p> <p>But the more important point to remember is that <b><i>never</i></b> in the history of the planet have humans altered the atmosphere as radically as we are doing so now. And the climatic consequences for us are likely to be radical as well, on a time-scale far faster than humans have ever experienced.</p> <p><a href="http://www.pacinst.org/about_us/staff_board/gleick/" target="_blank">Peter Gleick</a></p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/pgleick" lang="" about="/author/pgleick" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pgleick</a></span> <span>Thu, 03/07/2013 - 00:59</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-impacts" hreflang="en">climate impacts</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sea-level-rise-0" hreflang="en">Sea-Level Rise</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/carbon-dioxide" hreflang="en">carbon dioxide</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mauna-loa" hreflang="en">Mauna Loa</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/paleoclimate" hreflang="en">paleoclimate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sea-level-rise" hreflang="en">sea level rise</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-impacts" hreflang="en">climate impacts</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="120" id="comment-1908429" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362641376"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ugh. Here's an ugly addendum. A colleague has pointed to a new paper in PNAS that concludes: </p> <p>"with CO2 stabilized at 400–450 ppm (as required for the frequently quoted “acceptable warming” of 2 °C), or even at AD 2011 levels of 392 ppm, we infer a likely (68% confidence) long-term sea-level rise of more than 9 m above the present. Therefore, our results imply that to avoid significantly elevated sea level in the long term, atmospheric CO2 should be reduced to levels similar to those of preindustrial times."<br /> <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/110/4/1209.abstract">http://www.pnas.org/content/110/4/1209.abstract</a>. </p> <p>Nine meters....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908429&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J81kJx9hdyP4Z4p73Ayk98mnyKE1_b9zHUTkF6kklxY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/pgleick" lang="" about="/author/pgleick" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pgleick</a> on 07 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908429">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/pgleick"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/pgleick" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/348A0127-120x120.jpg?itok=3tK_KEEi" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user pgleick" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908430" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362653186"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That's sobering.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908430&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ti68BEsOMzcHWZtm1F6nvAMOgbIpkHio4ACg10eRE4g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Paul Weimer (@PrinceJvstin)">Paul Weimer (@… (not verified)</span> on 07 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908430">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908431" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362670458"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm scared guys, i'm really scared. Not specifically at this news, but at the fact that the majority of mankind still doesn't care. Even just the 50 year graph shown at the top already confirms that the rate of CO2 is actually ACCELERATING. </p> <p>Can you say 450ppm by 2045?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908431&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xi6iYgc8IzKFLWdzs7ImTZLNiglD5GoRfzL4DiIxiwM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sean (not verified)</span> on 07 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908431">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908432" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362713544"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Calm down - I have it on good authority from the heads of the automotive and energy industries that this is all nonsense. Even leading republicans will tell you this is rubbish. Also, if this really was important then prestigious media channels like Fox news would be running this daily,. Come on who would you rather trust, important people like these or "scientists" who only have "facts" to back them up?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908432&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="57ce-XZyYdEAjErXyVx9Anb0CFRZKmNxl9JK4TKNl4k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">prustage (not verified)</span> on 07 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908432">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908433" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362737750"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The headline probably should come in 2014 (with global collation of CO2 data), but it will more likely come this year when the reading for Mauna Loa hits 400 ppm this May.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908433&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6fqBXBDbeAGxVT392IigVRV3kKuUt0iTUI0JrSIYgf8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</span> on 08 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908433">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908434" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362750225"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>James Lovelock was predicting this effect in 2006 and earlier. Once the tipping point between negative and positive climatic feedback has been passed, chaos will probably ensue...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908434&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PiZXsNVMDE-H156SejsN1c_dw76D_3UgvOfeYkkmz1s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike Waud (not verified)</span> on 08 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908434">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908435" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362987014"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>while one cannot but agree with the forecasts outlined here, it is also vital to understand the how and why we got ourselves into this fine mess, and why we will go on burning fuel until nature puts an end to it.<br /> Prior to 1800, kings princes and bishops lived in castles and cathedrals because they had cornered the energy market. (our muscle power)<br /> They were the idle rich, the rest of us peasants supported that idleness. A king could have his castle because he could order thousands of men to build it, stone by stone, by hand.<br /> Starting in 1800 we burned 200 million years worth of fossilised sunpower in just 200 years, and suddenly everyone could live like kings, in warm houses, well fed and with our own personal transport. (those factors defined the aristocracy before 1800/1900)<br /> What we thought of as man's genius was in fact taking a slice of the energy market for all of us.<br /> We see this as our right, and demand that politicians maintain that right. If they don't, then there will be violent revolution. So our leaders sanction infinite fuelburning, they have no choice, as we have no choice but to try to maintain our 'way of life'.<br /> This is why the deniers are listened to. Nobody wants to hear bad news, only that our good times can roll on forever.<br /> What has in fact happened is that the planet has recognised humanity as an infestation, and is getting rid of us with the ferocity of heat wind and water<br /> <a href="http://www.endofmore.com/">http://www.endofmore.com/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908435&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RIdGqbtw5PnwmUS6n572m9CMsZKY1cLi7OdFo0tz6hw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">endofmore (not verified)</span> on 11 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908435">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908436" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1362993088"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Excellent article Peter, not something I'm looking forward to seeing. Along with the initial Arctic Ice Cap melt out sometime this decade (it was at half the volume in 2012 that it was in 2009), some are guessing 2016 or so, humanity is going to get alot of visual numbers and picture warnings we need to take heed of.</p> <p>As others have pointed out, we'll probably cross the threshold this year as the CO2 increase from Feb 2012 to Feb 2013 is much larger than the previous year and just adding that February increase to last year's May high pushes it past 400ppm (also the difference between 2011/2012 Feb readings was much smaller than the difference between the 2011/2012 May readings) so we may not just reach 400ppm but go past it some this year in May (ugly).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908436&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JajvLS_Dx_TxoPiEPIbGBf4V7QkLMrv9R4jCBxk2F-E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sasparilla (not verified)</span> on 11 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908436">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908437" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1363053249"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"End of More" is a brilliant meme, considering that some day it will probably be determined that plutocrats suffer from a neurophysiological disorder that impairs their "sense of satiety" (aka. the "enough" factor), producing their chronic craving for "more," as in, "endless increase of (whatever)." </p> <p>Though, we can certainly have warm houses and clean water, hot showers, sanitation and transportation, etc.: all with clean energy sources such as thorium and renewables, and intelligent design (good engineering) of our public and personal infrastructure. What we can't have is growthism as our global religion, and an endless stream of consumer baubles, and overpopulation to go along with the overconsumption. </p> <p>Some years ago I took the WWF "ecological footprint" data and came up with a rough estimate as follows: </p> <p>At USA levels of impact, a global population of ONE to TWO billion is sustainable.<br /> At Western European lifestyle, a global population of two to three billion.<br /> At Eastern European lifestyle, three to four billion.</p> <p>For six billion to live sustainably, a global average of Cuban lifestyle is necessary. There's enough to eat, everyone has the basics and a good education, but meat is a condiment rather than the main course at meals, private automobiles are for emergency workers only, and consumer baubles are rare luxuries. </p> <p>We're at seven billion and the UN says we're heading for nine, but I say we aren't going to make it that far. </p> <p>Whenever I hear someone argue that Thomas Jefferson's moral standing is impaired because he held slaves, I ask them how the future will look upon us for causing a human dieoff on a scale that will make the totality of 20th century holocausts and pogroms look like amateur hour by comparison. That's what we're heading for. That blood is on our hands. </p> <p>Keyword search "diachronic competition" and contemplate the moral implications.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908437&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S_7fRM6MYE8H2InjH2I_hqHhWyKeysZsXJPF6b3Bnkk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">G (not verified)</span> on 11 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908437">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908438" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1363182557"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Humans adjust!<br /> We can not change nature so we should be focussing on adjusting to new weather conditions etc as what has happened many times in the past. The world is going through a change, and not TAX will stop it!<br /> How many ice ages and climate changes has there been ? The earth is overdue for a NATURAL change, IE another ice age!<br /> Adjust!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908438&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dRKZs0NyLg6iwyEPfScITPyQw8tpIC-fmiyDQ4uNTT8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DazzaJ (not verified)</span> on 13 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908438">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="120" id="comment-1908439" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1363183861"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dazza, this is not right. Yes, humans can adjust, at least to some climate change. But the economic and social costs are likely to be vast, especially if we do nothing to slow the rate of climate change. In addition, what's happening now has NOT happened in the entire existence of humanity. We are NOT overdue for another ice age. The next ice age is not expected to begin for thousands of years. I've not made any arguments about policy, but a carbon tax would certainly have a positive effect: it would encourage emitters of carbon to cut back; it would raise funds to develop new innovative technologies for new energy or for adapting. Finally, you say we cannot change "nature." This isn't "nature." This is humans mucking up the delicate atmosphere that protects us.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908439&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_mQgLC2IamKwby8BilFM-w_Z__TXlx21K2sVNbitJw4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/pgleick" lang="" about="/author/pgleick" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pgleick</a> on 13 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908439">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/pgleick"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/pgleick" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/348A0127-120x120.jpg?itok=3tK_KEEi" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user pgleick" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1908438#comment-1908438" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DazzaJ (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1908440" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1363321167"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Assuming all carbon stopped being pumped into the atmosphere, how long before we got back down to 350 ppm?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1908440&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I7i2DoywYSeLvpwfXxa14brV70WQC9gxajGk1R1UcCc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">conrad schmidt (not verified)</span> on 15 Mar 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1908440">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/significantfigures/index.php/2013/03/07/an-inevitable-headline-in-2014-planets-co2-level-reaches-400-ppm-for-first-time-in-human-existence%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 07 Mar 2013 05:59:34 +0000 pgleick 71074 at https://scienceblogs.com Antarctic Adventures https://scienceblogs.com/erv/2013/01/03/antarctic-adventures <span>Antarctic Adventures</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If you havent heard, Richard Dawkins is <a href="https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/279891892072771585">cruising around Antarctica right now</a>-- Theyve upgraded internet abilities since I went, so he has been able to upload some Tweets and some <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/rdfrs/sets/72157632382162595/">photographs to flicker</a>:</p> <p><a title="121229RD-Icebergs by RDFRS, on Flickr" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/rdfrs/8325625407/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8218/8325625407_01883c57ac.jpg" alt="121229RD-Icebergs" width="500" height="332" /></a></p> <p>I want to go back so goddamn badly, seeing these pics makes me sad.  Its like seeing an ex youre still in love with happy with someone else.  So Im wallowing in my longing/sadness by going back and reading all my old love <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/tag/antarctica/">letters to Antarctica</a>:</p> <ul> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/02/the-antarctica-files-back/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Back!</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/06/the-antarctica-files-whales-ma/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Whales make me sick.</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/11/the-antarctica-files-penguin-m/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Penguin Madness!</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/13/the-antarctica-files-penguin-s/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Penguin Sex.</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/18/the-antarctica-files-skuuuuuuu/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: SKUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/20/the-antarctica-files-seal-madn/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Seal Madness</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/25/the-antarctica-files-swimming/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Swimming in Antarctica. Yeah, that was a good idea.</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/01/27/the-antarctica-files-penguin-h/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Penguin Highway!</a></li> <li><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/09/10/the-antarctica-files-whale-whi/" rel="bookmark">The Antarctica Files: Whale whirls!</a></li> </ul> <p>And this reminds me, I still have a story or two to tell...</p> <p> </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/erv" lang="" about="/erv" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sa smith</a></span> <span>Thu, 01/03/2013 - 06:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752166" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1357220764"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Please let them be penguin stories!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752166&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aLlzj799mAo0QR1y1ogr3pu3A3UMDBir5cufualfNbs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Optimus Primate (not verified)</span> on 03 Jan 2013 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752166">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/erv/2013/01/03/antarctic-adventures%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 03 Jan 2013 11:00:52 +0000 sa smith 51865 at https://scienceblogs.com The Melting Snowball Effect https://scienceblogs.com/seed/2012/12/04/the-melting-snowball-effect <span>The Melting Snowball Effect</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jan-borgstede/6651764169/"><img class="alignleft" title="Mountains at Paradise Bay, Antarctica" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6651764169_074f994bf7.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="201" /></a>A new look at twenty years worth of research shows that polar ice is in fact melting, and <a title="Ice Loss at Poles Is Increasing, Mainly in Greenland" href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/11/29/ice-loss-at-poles-is-increasing-mainly-in-greenland/" target="_blank">raising sea levels</a>, faster than anticipated. Greg Laden writes "Greenland is losing ice about 500% faster now than it was in the early 1990s, while Antarctica is losing ice at about the same rate." Altogether, <a title="A Reconciled Estimate of Ice-Sheet Mass Balance" href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2012/11/29/a-reconciled-estimate-of-ice-sheet-mass-balance/" target="_blank">ice melt since 1992</a> "has contributed to about 0.44 inches of sea level rise." On Stoat, William M. Connolley says "Still – that adds up to 0.6 mm/yr. So it will have to grow if its to become interesting by 2100." With ice-bound methane poised to mingle with carbon dioxide and <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/seed/2012/08/22/runaway-warming/">accelerate global warming</a>, <em>interesting</em> is a definite possibility. Scientists estimate that sea levels would rise by 200 feet if Antarctica thawed entirely. Not for several millennia, but an industrialist can dream.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/milhayser" lang="" about="/author/milhayser" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">milhayser</a></span> <span>Tue, 12/04/2012 - 06:21</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming-0" hreflang="en">Global Warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/sea-level" hreflang="en">sea level</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/seed/2012/12/04/the-melting-snowball-effect%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:21:07 +0000 milhayser 69162 at https://scienceblogs.com The Antarctica Files: Life... uhh... finds a way https://scienceblogs.com/erv/2012/12/03/the-antarctica-files-life-uhh-finds-a-way <span>The Antarctica Files: Life... uhh... finds a way</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>*sigh* Two years ago, this time, I was packing my bags for Antarctica. *sigh*</p> <p>As much as I would like to go back, I could never afford it... so I need to figure out how to get on one of these research teams working in Antarctica.</p> <p>See, abiogenesis, life on other planets-- that is not just a thought game physicists play.  There are scientists-- microbiologists, virologists, biochemists, geologists-- who try to find and study life in the most extreme locations on Earth, to try to figure out what 'life' could look like say, on Mars, or Europa.</p> <p>Its not a game.</p> <p>Its the research they perform day-in-day-out.</p> <p>A group just found bacteria (and where there are bacteria, there are bacteriophage!!!) in a, frankly, absurd location:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/11/21/1208607109.abstract">Microbial life at −13 °C in the brine of an ice-sealed Antarctic lake</a></p></blockquote> <p>The lake in question: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Vida">Lake Vida</a></p> <p>Its closer to the New Zeland/Austalia side of Antarctica, so nowhere close to where I got to visit.  It is covered with ice year round (for now). Not, like, a few feet of ice. About 69 feet of ice!  Year round!</p> <p>Not only that, but the dirt around the lake is frozen too (again, for now)... which means the <em>water</em> in this lake has been isolated from in/out flow, isolated from the rest of the world, for <strong><em>&gt;2800 years.</em></strong></p> <p>Lets get to the water in the lake-- First of all, no one even knew there was liquid in this lake until 2002, they thought it was just solid ice.  Well, there is.  Its a nice almost-neutral pH of 6.2, but it just gets crazy from there. The water is -13 C.  The only way there can be liquid water at these low temperatures is if there is a TON of salt in it, and there is. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea">The Dead Sea</a> has a salt level at <em>40</em> 'Practical Salinity Units'.  Lake Vida is at <em><strong>188 PSU</strong></em>.</p> <p>There is a nice mish-mash of metal ions (Ca, Cl, Mg, Al, Feetc), bubbling of gasses (N2O, CO2), but not a smidgen of oxygen.</p> <p>Oh, and a ton of bacteria.</p> <p>Not dead/frozen bacteria-- Very live bacteria, happily (but slowly!) generating proteins in their hypersaline, super cold, no oxygen, ton of iron environment!</p> <p>And not just one kind of bacteria-- lots of different phyla, some of which have never been observed in a hypersaline environment before!</p> <p>Maybe Ive been thinking too small.  Maybe I dont want to research in Antarctica... might be more fun to go to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_%28moon%29">Europa</a> with a shovel...</p> <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SkWeMvrNiOM?rel=0" frameborder="0" width="560" height="315"></iframe></div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/erv" lang="" about="/erv" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sa smith</a></span> <span>Mon, 12/03/2012 - 06:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctica" hreflang="en">antarctica</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/microbiology" hreflang="en">microbiology</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752088" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1354538808"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Um. Europa is officially out of bounds, according to the Space Monoliths. Try to land there, and the next thing you'll be beaten to death by a proto-hominid using a femur as a club. Or possibly an icicle. Femurs may be in short supply.</p> <p>My advice: bring something heavier than a shovel. Think Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752088&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-EZsoWt4_rCjyVj9Id1j3xJBg77MkXVngvTPRSU9Qpc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erik (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752088">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752089" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1354587105"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That is quite interesting. It seems that the chemical accident we call life, can exist nearly anywhere on earth. I recall reading about hyper-saline, super-hot mud pools who also harbor heat-loving bacteria. </p> <p>If life can work in those places? It seems to be far more probable that life is everywhere in the universe. </p> <p>I do expect scientists to discover life of some sort, on most of the other nearby planets. Eventually. </p> <p>I do hope you get your wish to return to Antarctica. That's kind of cool (no pun intended), that I actually am acquainted with an actual Antarctic scientist. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752089&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Dhe3MazxyYZXAnFc8vrvvvpnrpVH9UFCvuoYQnZ00AA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bob Powers (not verified)</span> on 03 Dec 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752089">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752090" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1354601410"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The last thing I watched yesterday was this:<br /> <a href="http://youtu.be/f6I_f93O8dg">http://youtu.be/f6I_f93O8dg</a><br /> Steven Squyres, pondering the future of planetary exploration.</p> <p>He goes (rather shortly, at the end around minute 50) into a mission to explore the under-ice sea of Europa. I don't think we will see this in our life-times. The amount of material we would need to bring to Europa is staggering.</p> <p>There was no talk about such Europa missions at NASA's "Solar system Exploration @ 50 Symposium"<br /> <a href="http://www.nasa.gov/topics/history/features/SSEat50.html">http://www.nasa.gov/topics/history/features/SSEat50.html</a><br /> The best we can hope for at the moment is for some sort of Europa Orbiter/"Clipper" space probe, to find out how thick the ice is (where it is thinner, and how thin), how deep the ocean is and so on.</p> <p>(And while we are at lectures Steven Squyres, one should see this video about the exploration of Mars through Spirit and Opportunity: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1m9p2uomE8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1m9p2uomE8</a><br /> And if you want to know what is going on at Mars with regards to Curiosity, while I haven't read it all, I can recommend this:<br /> <a href="http://www.planetary.org/explore/space-topics/space-missions/mer-updates/2012/11-mer-update-opportunity-digs-in-at-matijevic-hill.html">http://www.planetary.org/explore/space-topics/space-missions/mer-update…</a><br /> <a href="http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/curiosity-instrument-sam.html">http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/curiosity-instrume…</a> )</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752090&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KDBkYQONrySLiyTYvETzT8-ebP8tX5NLuejxFfm7J5k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Tony Mach (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752090">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752091" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1354601911"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, one of the links from me was wrong, should have been:<br /> <a href="http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/12031316-curiosity-kerfuffle.html">http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/12031316-curiosity…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752091&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xnOpDv1ClZehg-Dw9WNRvjOr-IIAnnmuASE6dxNCROg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Tony Mach (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752091">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752092" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1354651890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But surely those scientists who claim to have discovered bacteria are just making things up in order to garner fame and research grants?!<br /> I say we hack their emails and find out what they're really up to.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752092&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7weMYbVxiGz0H5Ui4YJgaTqX0W-5F6pI6YbhQMAjcN8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vince Whirlwind (not verified)</span> on 04 Dec 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752092">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1752093" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1355400702"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Fascinating.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1752093&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GLSkcnaz9X8iagtg-mlkkZRQaSx3uMXoTaf-6cy76Qk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">heddle (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4822/feed#comment-1752093">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/erv/2012/12/03/the-antarctica-files-life-uhh-finds-a-way%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 03 Dec 2012 11:00:05 +0000 sa smith 51855 at https://scienceblogs.com