Arctic Sea Ice Extent https://scienceblogs.com/ en Arctic Sea Ice in 2015 https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015 <span>Arctic Sea Ice in 2015</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Every year the sea ice that covers the northern part of the Earth expands and contracts though the winter and the summer. The minimum extent of the sea ice is usually reached some time in September, after which it starts to reform. </p> <p>Human caused greenhouse gas pollution has increased the surface temperatures of the earth, as measured on the land at about heat height with thermometers, and on the sea at the surface, mainly with satellites. Warming of the surface has continued apace for several decades, though with some expected squiggling up and down in how fast that is happening.</p> <p>Greenhouse gas, mainly CO2, causes warming because of its heat trapping properties, and this warming (and the CO2 itself) set in motion a number of feedback systems that either push against warming or increase warming. Most of these feedback systems, unfortunately, are what we call "positive" feedbacks, though they are not "positive" in a good way. They are effects that increase the amount of warming beyond what would happen from just the CO2. One of the biggest global effects is an increase in the amount of water vapor carried by the atmosphere. Since water vapor is also a greenhouse gas, more CO2 -&gt; more greenhouse effect -&gt; more water vapor -&gt; more greenhouse effect. </p> <p>One of the bad effects of greenhouse warming is the melting of more ice in the Arctic during the summer. On average, less and less ice is left by the end of the melt season in September. Again, this amount squiggles up and down a bit, but it is a persistent downward trend. Since ice reflects sunlight away from the earth, a decrease in ice cover in the Arctic means more warming. This has both regional effects (such as an increase in melting of land-based Greenland glaciers) and a global effect. The regional effect is very important, because this has resulted in a phenomenon known as Arctic Amplification. This refers to the fact that of all the different regions of the earth, the Arctic is warming more than most other regions. The large scale systems of air movement that make up much of our climate, and thus control much of our weather, are shaped and driven in large part by the redistribution of heat form tropical areas (where the sun has a stronger warming effect) outward towards the poles. This redistribution shapes trade wind patterns and determines the location and strength of the jet streams. The relatively warmer Arctic has changed the basic shape and pattern of these major climatic features in ways that have caused significant changes in weather. The drought in California is caused in part by the persistence of a large jet stream meander caused, almost certainly, by Arctic Amplification and other changes in heat distribution in the northern latitudes. Another change is the increase in large scale precipitation events. Here in the twin cities, for example, the frequency of 3" plus rainstorm over the year has changed from about one every two years to one every year, on average. Rainfall events of between 1 and 2 inches, and between 2 and 3 inches, have also increased. </p> <p>There are two major properties of Arctic ice that should be considered. One, just discussed, is extent. Extent matters because of its direct effect on albedo, the reflection of sunlight back into space. Less ice extent, caused by warming, means even more warming. The other property is ice volume. Ice volume builds up over time. Thick ice includes ice from previous years that didn't melt. The system is complex and dynamic, but a healthy Arctic ice ecosystem has a good amount of thick high-volume ice that persists through the melt season and forms the anchor against which annually re-freezing surface ice forms. The less ice volume, the less stable the Arctic Sea ice is, and the more difficult it becomes to reform. Exactly how this effect works depends on exactly which part of the Arctic one is in. </p> <p>Over the last several decades, the volume of Arctic Sea ice has reduced by something like 80%. This is not good.</p> <p>Andy Lee Robinson has made an amazing and highly instructive graphic showing the decline in Arctic Sea ice volume over the years. Here is the most updated version showing data up through this year, based on <a href="http://psc.apl.washington.edu/research/projects/arctic-sea-ice-volume-anomaly/">these data</a>:</p> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JYNDT2kProU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe><p> From <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYNDT2kProU">Andy's YouTube page</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>Published on Oct 4, 2015</p> <p>This is an animated visualization of the startling decline of Arctic Sea Ice, showing the minimum volume reached every September since 1979, set on a map of New York with a 10km grid to give an idea of scale. It is clear that the trend of Arctic sea ice decline indicates that it'll be ice-free for an increasingly large part of the year, with consequences for the climate.</p> <p>The rate of ice loss in the Arctic is staggering. Since 1979, the volume of Summer Arctic sea ice has declined by more than 80% and accelerating faster than scientists believed it would, or even could melt.</p> <p>Based on the rate of change of volume over the last 30 years, I expect the first ice-free summer day in the Arctic Ocean (defined as having less than 1 million km² of sea ice) to happen between 2016 and 2022, and thereafter occur more regularly with the trend of ice-free duration extending into August and October.</p></blockquote> <p>(The music for the graphic was also <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_miBCygvO4Y&amp;feature=youtu.be">composed and played by Andy</a>.)</p> <p>By the way, those interested in computer technology will note that Andy's graphic is produced on the most powerful and stable operating system, Linux, using OpenSource tools. </p> <blockquote><p>I produced the animation using hand-written perl and php code to create povray scripts, and scheduling task distribution using MySQL between 7 linux servers working in parallel to render 810 frames at 1920 x 1080 resolution. The "farm" renders 22 frames simultaneously taking between 1-2 hours per frame. On completion, ffmpeg combines the individual frames and music into a high quality mp4 video.</p></blockquote> <p>So, that's cool.</p> <p>Anyway, Andy has also created the now famous Sea Ice Death Spiral graphic, showing Arctic Sea ice volume since 1979, in a particularly helpful graphic style. Notice that the sea ice volume is fairly stable for several years, then starts to decline rapidly and continues to do so thereafter. </p> <p><a href="/files/gregladen/files/2015/10/arctic-death-spiral.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2015/10/arctic-death-spiral-610x572.jpg" alt="arctic-death-spiral" width="610" height="572" class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-21632" /></a></p> <p>Sea ice extent has followed a similar pattern. Let's have a look at this year in relation to the last several decades. First, this graphic made using the interactive graphing tool at the National Snow and Ice Data Center shows this year's ice in relation to the average and standard deviation since 1979. Here we see that the ice extent has been following the lowest end of the two standard deviation spread. The lowest extent shown here is the fourth lowest since records began:</p> <p><a href="/files/gregladen/files/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-05-at-7.57.05-AM.png"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-05-at-7.57.05-AM-610x513.png" alt="Screen Shot 2015-10-05 at 7.57.05 AM" width="610" height="513" class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-21633" /></a></p> <p>To add even more perspective, the next to graphics show the first ten years in the NSIDC data set, followed by the last ten years. In both cases, the thick black line is the average for the entire data set. This comparison clearly indicates that things have changed in the Arctic:</p> <p><a href="/files/gregladen/files/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-05-at-7.56.23-AM.png"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-05-at-7.56.23-AM-300x250.png" alt="Screen Shot 2015-10-05 at 7.56.23 AM" width="300" height="250" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-21634" /></a><br /> <a href="/files/gregladen/files/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-05-at-7.56.46-AM.png"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-05-at-7.56.46-AM-300x247.png" alt="Screen Shot 2015-10-05 at 7.56.46 AM" width="300" height="247" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-21635" /></a></p> <p>One of the things that people who wish to deny climate science usually start whinging about at this point in the discussion is that the Antarctic has had an increase in sea ice, and that somehow this all evens out. Let me briefly explain why this is incorrect.</p> <p>There has been an increase in the extent of sea ice in the Antarctic, but there are at least two (maybe three) reasons for this. First, there has been a major increase in winds in the southern hemisphere caused by climate change. This includes winds coming off the Antarctic continent. These winds break up the sea ice and blow it around, opening areas between blocks of floating ice, which then freeze quickly. This causes an increase in extent of the ice. The other is the increase in fresh water entering the sea around Antarctic because the glaciers are melting. This fresh water allows the sea to freeze at a higher temperature, causing more ice. There may be other reasons having to do with currents of both air and water, and rainfall, also caused by climate change. So, climate change causes these changes in sea ice at both poles. </p> <p>The increase in maximum sea ice in the Antarctic does not increase albedo because it happens in the dark. So the decreased global albedo in the Arctic is not offset by changes in the Antarctic. All of the regional ecological changes affecting sea life and so on can not be offset between the Arctic and Antarctic, because they are on opposite ends of the planet. Also, note, that this year we did not see an increase in Antarctic sea ice. Overall it is expected that global warming will turn around the Antarctic sea ice amount, and also, we are expecting Antarctic glaciers to begin melting at a higher rate over the next decade or so. It will be interesting to see what eventually happens. In any event, keep in mind that the Arctic and Antarctic are very different geographical regions. The Arctic is a sea surrounded by continents. The Antarctic is a continent surrounded by sea. We could not possibly expect the same things to happen in these two areas. The comparison often made by climate science contrarians is absurd.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Mon, 10/05/2015 - 02:53</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antarctic-sea-ice" hreflang="en">Antarctic Sea Ice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-0" hreflang="en">Climate Change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-graphics" hreflang="en">climate change graphics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming-1" hreflang="en">Global Warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice-extent" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice Extent</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice-volume" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice Volume</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-graphics" hreflang="en">climate change graphics</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467139" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444031820"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Arctic Sea Ice Extent Second Highest For The Date Since 2005<br /> Posted on October 5, 2015 by stevengoddard<br /> After the shortest melt season on record, and record growth of sea ice in September, Arctic sea ice extent is now the second highest in the DMI record for the date.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467139&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z3R6f3gaag87yVSccMRFoshUgTjCsTHUTFvhAg5Th54"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">psd (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467139">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1467140" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444036754"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>psd, you have to be up to something to look at the data and think what you seem to be thinking.</p> <p>Also, referencing Steven Goddard in a comment on this blog is grounds for permanent life in the dungeon for your future posts. You can comment, but your comments will be monitored. No links to denialist sites. That's the rule.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467140&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BsHfsgkTTFUZvlcCPScGnc9-Bghn5HNaxguxK6lxo4c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467140">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467141" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444041604"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Heller may have been referring to the earlier plot, which has been replaced but linked-to, with the following note:</p> <p>"The plot above replaces an earlier sea ice extent plot, that was based on data with the coastal zones masked out. This coastal mask implied that the previous sea ice extent estimates were underestimated. The new plot displays absolute sea ice extent estimates. The old plot can still be viewed here for a while."</p> <p><a href="http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php">http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php</a></p> <p>Innocent mistake, no doubt.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467141&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FZDE8rtc1zUMf0374Mf9Kj-1XeYtN9mUVXODN-ooLmk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">corey (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467141">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467142" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444050346"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A back of the envelope calculation for the Arctic sea ice volume anomaly trend of -300 km³/year from PIOMAS (1979-2015) shows that the average annual net heat flux required to cause it is only 0.3 W/m².</p> <p>Fortunately the denizens at Watts Up With That and similar sites have the greenhouse gas theory on the run and will slay it the moment they catch it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467142&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M1fh7Z43gYV_lKqprtDSwr3mNOYpcsTok3lGUB6n6aE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Magma (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467142">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467143" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444056027"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-_8E_zeuNE">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-_8E_zeuNE</a></p> <p>Dear psd,<br /> If you are writing to show the inability of "stevegoddard" to be able to distinguish between weather and climate, good on you!</p> <p>If on the other hand, you are implying that the serious long term trend of loss of Arctic ice illustrated in Greg Laden's blog is no longer a problem, that the problem is all over now and everything is right with the world, that everything is AOK because of "stevegoddard" 's "extra special" interpretation of weather noise, then I would like to suggest to you that there really are no French fries. And you should go elsewhere to get some. </p> <p>Oh yeah. </p> <p>And have a nice day.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467143&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SDaMm8diE1mm29YJ3H7g2ctA0woTK5NgVqJ2SIcbPqs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SteveP (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467143">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467144" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444067753"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>These are powerful graphics. Shared thanks. </p> <p>@ 4 Magma : These aren't back of the envelope calculatiosn they are real observations (well graphic presentations of real empiricial data.) and WUWT is NOT exactly a credible source or able to catch anything much. Except maybe undeserved publicity and possibly fossil fuel funds? </p> <p>See :</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcxVwEfq4bM">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcxVwEfq4bM</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467144&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gd-FDFwT5nM5zT-UcUb-akzEhB1JN167S6xuiGq3yA8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">StevoR (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467144">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467145" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444068637"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ StevoR</p> <p>I meant that was *my* back of the envelope calculation for the energy imbalance leading to long-term Arctic ice loss.</p> <p>For the second paragraph, please check the batteries in your sarcasm meter.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467145&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DEYL-RohSjixdOVWZdLMAUyKvizyz52vVCHHxd6CyBE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Magma (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467145">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467146" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444069250"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Greg Laden, SteveP<br /> Thanks for the cordial replies. Usually the two sides in this debate hurl mud and scream insults.<br /> I'm deeply interested and concerned. I really do want to find the truth.<br /> By the way, I have a bachelor's degree in Environmental Science from UEA, the leading promulgator of AGW.<br /> So, I'm not stupid.<br /> The debate has become 99% political and the reason for that is also interesting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467146&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6h9f3SkBKMkEXJU9rggURC0o7XuZhtURyq56N144EU4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">psd (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467146">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467147" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444069823"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Okay. Fair enough.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467147&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MmkoORl7i7PvmCvkDYxb6oHnKfsGlMURyicdF9wllHE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">StevoR (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467147">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467148" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444071046"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks<br /> If Anthony Watts and Bil McGibbon can have a congenial face-to-face conversation (as they recently did) then I guess anyone can .... all of us should be able to at least communicate decently online.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467148&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="33eqgOdKJxOqFKdJn_TuHOcjL7cj_ye3N-z5zmhxp8U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">psd (not verified)</span> on 05 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467148">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1467147#comment-1467147" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">StevoR (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467149" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444115783"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>(Recall that the McKibben social took place shortly after Anthony tossed-off that accusatory email to Dr. Tom Peterson about Karl(2015), causing even Revkin to blush. There's bound to be a moral there.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467149&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bMSBTMAythyAkfX1epfPf3QSiWnwm7IRqD4-gfW7ubE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">corey (not verified)</span> on 06 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467149">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467150" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444117052"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I’m deeply interested and concerned. I really do want to find the truth."</p> <p>I propose that you are grappling with acceptance of the consensus position because of your political ideology. Hint: Watts and Heller aren't going to help you come to terms with the overwhelming evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467150&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7TVYZnKNKbkK_sMu-T6mxwyxbIauujVe6cgyOBNzAy0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">corey (not verified)</span> on 06 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467150">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467151" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444123719"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>psd, apart from the odd description of UEA as "the leading promulgator of AGW", could you explain to us why you select the website of a known incompetent climate commenter (Goddard, real name Heller) for your news?</p> <p>I mean, it isn't even true what he claims:<br /> <a href="http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php">http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php</a><br /> Both 2013 and 2014 were higher.<br /> Then again:<br /> <a href="http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php">http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php</a><br /> Of course Goddard immediately jumped on this...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467151&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-uzq2O4RLgSpDCv2U42xK4MKpMTehtN061Yr7l1oPUg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 06 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467151">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467152" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444162960"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Not to mention that Heller/Goddard insists that it snows solid CO2 in Antarctica.</p> <p>PSD: if you want to learn climate science, study climate science. There are online courses available for free from a couple of different universities. Since you've got a BS from UEA and "aren't stupid" I don't think you'd have any problem taking the courses.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467152&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JjdNwESf12zkti3SQaDEdfQOENDgw6z58UUoGOq1xWY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dhogaza (not verified)</span> on 06 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467152">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467153" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444173856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>D'oh! My comment #9 here was in response to #7 magma of course. Not my thread here, sigh.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467153&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PIS18QDJOHMre3SbXfXBVknNmVUl4ofB_Onsyc1shKE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">StevoR (not verified)</span> on 06 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467153">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467154" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444199691"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>(It's a confusing thread, what with Magma/Marco and SteveP/StevoR and a misinformer-cum-concern troll. I, for one, appreciate the clarification.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467154&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eYGb5JxzP4DfXOYdo19R8QfpjtX-qk5ib0Qj3izjAxg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">corey (not verified)</span> on 07 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467154">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467155" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444224607"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>psd, unfortunately, we are accustomed to the varying attacks from the spectrum you are trying to represent and sometimes it is hard to keep patience with this nonsense. For example, the McKibben-Watts meeting turns out to have been polite only on the surface, since McKibben felt ambushed when he made the effort to show goodwill under false premises.</p> <p>I treasure Goddard giving me my 15 minutes of fame for suggesting my old friend now deceased, Richard Feynman, would make very short work of the misrepresentations of his structures on truth and science appropriated by unskeptical climate "skeptics". Their assumption that I could not have known him (Cambridge, Thinking Machines, MIT, about 1985, association through drawing group) allows them to mount a cackle of insults, which would be funny if you all didn't take it seriously. They also think Galileo and Einstein would side with them.</p> <p><a href="https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/feynman-channels-his-thoughts-on-global-warming-through-susan-anderson/">https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/feynman-channels-his-tho…</a></p> <p>You can see why people lose patience with the ongoing reassertion of false information. If you think these comments are rude, check the comments there. The term CAGW, for example, comes entirely from the denialosphere, and "settled science" is pretty much from there as well. So is the idea that global warming and climate change were separated for effect (well, there was an effort, but it came from Republican strategist Frank Luntz), but in fact warming has to do with increased heat trapping and results in disrupted circulation and more energy in the system, climate change. We have to use words, which are imperfect.</p> <p>In any case, starting the melt record at 2005 is mildly dishonest. In the climate record, you want to go back as far as you can, not truncate for effect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467155&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lxXpWiC62LHSz4wadz4oNSujC3Pp_1gMBvZTXP3Mejs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Susan Anderson (not verified)</span> on 07 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467155">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1467156" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1444950657"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>psd<br /> <a href="http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4nh/from:1980/mean:12/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:1980.6/offset:-9.85/mean:12/scale:0.4/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:2006/offset:-9.85/scale:0.4/trend/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/to:2006/offset:-9.86/scale:0.4/trend">http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4nh/from:1980/mean:12/plot/nsid…</a></p> <p>the sea ice exent data are noisy.<br /> the sea ice trend since 2006 is greater than the trend before 2006.<br /> the sea ice trend for summer minimum, when the albedo feedback which increases global warming is greatest, is larger than the winter trend.<br /> the sea ice trend is much larger than models predicted - <a href="http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b017d3da64b2b970c-pi">http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b017d3da64b2b970c-pi</a><br /> If models are underestimating melt, why are denialists so confident that the uncertainty in model sensitivity means that the temperature increase will be smaller than projected?</p> <p>Either Steve Goddard doesn't know the difference between signal and (cherrypicked) noise, or he's hoping you don't know the difference - but now you do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1467156&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4ZHRFC-3znqNCsST55-ahkgyJN_eHS9mwe5BpCtdKRU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brian Dodge (not verified)</span> on 15 Oct 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1467156">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Mon, 05 Oct 2015 06:53:20 +0000 gregladen 33705 at https://scienceblogs.com Arctic Sea Ice Minimum: Achievement Unlocked https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/09/15/arctic-sea-ice-minimum-achievement-unlocked <span>Arctic Sea Ice Minimum: Achievement Unlocked</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The National Snow &amp; Ice Data Center has<a href="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2015/09/2015_arctic-minimum/"> declared that the Arctic Sea ice extent has reached its annual minimum</a> and is now starting to expand. I was thinking that it was too early to say this, since in past years what looks like a minimum can sometimes be reversed by some additional melting. But they are the experts, so I suppose we should go with it for now.</p> <p>If this is the case, then this is the fourth lowest minimum in the good data set covering the last several decades. </p> <p>They do hedge a bit. Here is what they say:</p> <blockquote><p>On September 11, Arctic sea ice reached its likely minimum extent for 2015. The minimum ice extent was the fourth lowest in the satellite record, and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent. Sea ice extent will now begin its seasonal increase through autumn and winter. In the Antarctic, sea ice extent is average, a substantial contrast with recent years when Antarctic winter extents reached record high levels.</p> <p><em>Please note that this is a preliminary announcement. Changing winds or late-season melt could still reduce the Arctic ice extent, as happened in 2005 and 2010. NSIDC scientists will release a full analysis of the Arctic melt season, and discuss the Antarctic winter sea ice growth, in early October. </em></p></blockquote> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Tue, 09/15/2015 - 06:26</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-0" hreflang="en">Climate Change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice-extent" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice Extent</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466065" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442382741"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sea ice extent seems like a very noisy parameter to follow.Trends of less than a decade or so will jump around a lot. Unfortunately, this date will undoubtedly be cited as proof of global cooling by the various innumerate and igscientific propagandists who strive for continued fossil fuel poisoning of our air, land and water. </p> <p>Tonight the Republican clown caravan will be debating really important issues like whether or not Carly Fiorina's botoxed face is important to the continued survival of the species. Or whether or not a political party enamored of blatantly racist strategies for greatness can warmly embraced a pithed former brain surgeon with dark skin. </p> <p>Any side bets on whether or not there will be a single question about climate change, climate destabilization, global warming, or sustainability tonight? I'm thinking the odds are slim and none.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466065&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ESyH6jRyf3laMiC_x1oCEPBjtP7LQjA-luDU9wUXgsI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SteveP (not verified)</span> on 16 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466065">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2015/09/15/arctic-sea-ice-minimum-achievement-unlocked%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:26:29 +0000 gregladen 33684 at https://scienceblogs.com Arctic Sea Ice Extent Is Not Extensive https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/09/13/arctic-sea-ice-extent-is-not-extensive <span>Arctic Sea Ice Extent Is Not Extensive</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>September is when the melt of the Arctic Sea Ice stops, and the re-freeze starts. We are probably not at the minimum yet, but the amount of melting is starting to level off so we can see where we are. The above graphic, <a href="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/">made here</a> (go and play with the interactive graph) shows the first ten years of ice freezing and remelting in the data set to use as a baseline for comparison, and the present year. Yes, there is much less sea ice on the northern end of the planet than usual.</p> <p>This version of the graph shows the years with less ice, so far, than the present year. This includes the famous 2012 when the ice melted a lot lot more than usual, instead of merely a lot more. 2007 probably had less ice than this year will see, but we can't be sure yet. 2011 and the present year are almost the same. Again, we'll see but currently 2011 had a tiny bit less sea ice extent. </p> <p><a href="/files/gregladen/files/2015/09/Screen-Shot-2015-09-13-at-11.25.31-AM1.png"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2015/09/Screen-Shot-2015-09-13-at-11.25.31-AM1-610x467.png" alt="Screen Shot 2015-09-13 at 11.25.31 AM" width="610" height="467" class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-21517" /></a></p> <p>So, 2015 will end up being the second or third most ice free year on record. Keep in mind this is only surface, not volume. Still, surface is very important because it is part of a feedback system; the more surface ice the more reflection of sun's energy back into space, the less surface covered with ice, the more the Arctic sea is warmed by the sun during the summer.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Sun, 09/13/2015 - 05:28</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-0" hreflang="en">Climate Change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming-1" hreflang="en">Global Warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice-extent" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice Extent</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466051" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442146078"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Greg: Your second chart looks like the same chart as the first chart (at least on my chrome browser).</p> <p>From the text I gather it should look different.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466051&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tRya1qqnByhny4krsmLuhTR1_RFdzYIjPkykRwH4m6w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">RickA (not verified)</span> on 13 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466051">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466052" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442155292"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It does seem to have changed since I first viewed it. The one I recall had a dashed line... ???</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466052&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fqtNxqCWfRWFTCTYFxjPCsI2oZPzyY5BUF_GP1kQyAs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brainstorms (not verified)</span> on 13 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466052">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466053" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442164729"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Pretty pointless to track ice over a 5-year period. Earth is millions of years old. Look at larger trends. Also, south pole ice is expanding.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466053&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FoiTt0QRLLWNG6AVjPR79oXiJyNEy7wTY8280yM3MZk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike Johnson (not verified)</span> on 13 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466053">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1466054" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442166891"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mike, the data here start in 1979. !979 to the present is not five years, it is longer. You may need to get yourself a new calendar.</p> <p>It is pointless to track ice in relation to the age of the Earth, which is billions, not millions, of years. That would entirely miss the point.</p> <p>South pole ice is indeed doing something different. But that is pretty useless ice when it comes to the arctic. It is in the south, not the north. It does not "make up" for arctic ice.</p> <p>The south pole and north pole are such utterly different situations that they can't be compared, and it turns out that the expansion of extent of sea ice in the south is both a) not the same thing at all as sea ice extent changes in the north and b) caused by ... guess what .... climate change!</p> <p>So, you're kinda wrong on all points.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466054&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vv4qShiTURvXAN24NpFMGYsCy0OHhla2Rvf6rpG06B0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 13 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466054">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466055" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442194231"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mike, if you get ill and get a high fever, do you think it's appropriate to track your temperature since you were born or since you got ill?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466055&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sm29ZA2wqrdPVERNlf9twCz29gVTDakyqyivi5zAU0s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Thomas P (not verified)</span> on 13 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466055">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1466056" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442207387"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thomas, good analogy. Or, extended, to track the temperature of the atoms you are made of since the big bang.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466056&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tVDGc0jgk9LFqsrY2ylYS0-B0vIE4Gw9_1GY_qyrSF8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 14 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466056">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466057" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442207983"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Surely the point of tracking is to try and help us understand cause and effect, so that we can make informed guesses about what is likely to happen in the future - tomorrow, next week, next year, in 20 years, and to test theories to see which ones best predict the effects of particular causes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466057&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BbcepDXisKEAtfOx8Az3TFmbQpy7uOQeHK0S7lBUu3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Morgan (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466057">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1466058" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442215810"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Both charts are exactly the same, it looks like the second one is a copy/paste of the first one whereas it should be different as RickA correctly said.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466058&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YjZj1FWX-yZ4IdDYhW7u4Hg5wG5ub5RWnXXhMcMqJpo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Géd (not verified)</span> on 14 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466058">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="31" id="comment-1466059" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1442216047"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, all, chart problem fixed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1466059&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IhBdLbYcviS6kHUneHX_LKV_-ij-PbFnEJ57mc9mWM8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a> on 14 Sep 2015 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1466059">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/author/gregladen"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/author/gregladen" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/HumanEvolutionIcon350-120x120.jpg?itok=Tg7drSR8" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user gregladen" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2015/09/13/arctic-sea-ice-extent-is-not-extensive%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Sun, 13 Sep 2015 09:28:52 +0000 gregladen 33675 at https://scienceblogs.com Has the Arctic Sea ice extent peaked for the year? https://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2014/03/26/has-the-arctic-sea-ice-extent-peaked-for-the-year <span>Has the Arctic Sea ice extent peaked for the year?</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Above is the nifty <a href="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/">interactive graphic</a> from the National Snow and Ice Data Center showing sea ice extent in the Arctic for the current year (the lower squiggle). This year's squiggle looks like a peak, and it is possible that Arctic Sea ice extent is now on the decline. Minimum extent is typically reached in September. </p> <p>The other squiggles are all the years since 1979 that seem to have had peaks later in the year than this year's apparent peak of a couple of days ago. Those years are 1992, 1997, 1999, and 2010. In other words, for the available data set, four out of 34 years, or just over 10% of the years, had sea ice extent peaks that post date March 21st, which appears to be this year's peak. There is still a chance that more ice will be added and this year's squiggle will see an uptick. Well, I guess it is fair to say that there's about a one in ten chance of that happening. But, I hear the Arctic is a bit warm and that the ice is getting all breaky-uppy so that seems like it might be a high estimate.</p> <p>This is probably not too important because the relationship between what the ice does during its maximum extent and what the ice does during its minimum extent is seemingly random, and it is the minimum extent that counts.</p> <p>You will recall that I've predicted the minimum extent of sea ice this year, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2014/03/12/how-much-will-the-arctic-sea-ice-melt-this-year/">here</a>. </p> <p>The degree to which sea ice extent is reduced is important. It normally melts to some degree every year, but when it melts a lot the open sea can absorb more heat from the sun, and there is less shiny ice to reflect sunlight away. This causes extra warming in the Arctic, a phenomenon known as Arctic Amplification, which may be implicated in changing large scale weather systems, resulting in the phenomenon known as <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/tag/weather-whiplash/">Weather Whiplash</a>. </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/gregladen" lang="" about="/author/gregladen" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">gregladen</a></span> <span>Wed, 03/26/2014 - 09:10</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change-0" hreflang="en">Climate Change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming-1" hreflang="en">Global Warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-sea-ice-extent" hreflang="en">Arctic Sea Ice Extent</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1456452" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1395842884"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>According to the link below there are indications that a strong El Niño could be under way:</p> <p>"Most of us who follow climate science closely have been watching with interest the developing situation in the Pacific Ocean with the Southern Oscillation and the predictions that we are headed for an El Nino..and a big one at that."<br /> <a href="http://uknowispeaksense.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/its-going-to-be-hot-very-hot/">http://uknowispeaksense.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/its-going-to-be-hot-ve…</a> </p> <p>If this is the case, the slowdown in surface warming will come to an end, and so will all talk of no warming since... (Until it starts again.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1456452&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WFXC24L55Ftfd_x3m0jsARQsFKxm_xb83CqBTcvvNVc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cosmicomics (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1456452">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1456453" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1395859884"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Based on what I've seen from the charts you've posted, it seems likely that we're at (or slightly past) the peak, but that it's also possible - albeit less likely - that the peak may yet come, at a delayed point. Comparing the graphs, it seems that recent peaks are both lower AND later than the established average.</p> <p>So perhaps it will duck back up, very slightly for a moment - but certainly not enough to make much of a difference. It's still going to be very, very low for a "peak."</p> <p>-R</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1456453&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ePdhwg-xJnA29408R84hIwjh8T_yF3RWXKqBHA1m0WA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Roguer (not verified)</span> on 26 Mar 2014 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4864/feed#comment-1456453">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/gregladen/2014/03/26/has-the-arctic-sea-ice-extent-peaked-for-the-year%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:10:28 +0000 gregladen 33117 at https://scienceblogs.com