Phil Jones https://scienceblogs.com/ en Climategate: one year later https://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/11/climategate-one-year-later <span>Climategate: one year later</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>November 17 marked the one year anniversary of the hacking of CRU mail servers and the release of thousands of emails between climate scientists.</p> <p>Though irrelevant to the scientific case for anthropogenic climate change, the event was significant in the public relations sphere. I have not found the time to do a proper memorial write up though I think it is important to reassess and reframe the controversy with the benefit of hindsight. But as luck would have it, a young climate blogger named Kate at <a href="http://climatesight.org/">Climate Sight</a> has written a piece as well laid out and written as I could ever have hoped to do, full of supporting links and intelligent insights.</p> <p><a href="http://climatesight.org/2010/11/17/the-real-story-of-climategate/">Please go have a read there!</a></p> <!--more--><p>That important work being done, I am free to pick a shallower approach and quickly talk about a few things the emails did <em>not</em> say! (I have used examples from <a href="http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/11/climategate-executive-summary-of-cru.html">this page</a> as a quick one-stop shop for the climate conspiracy nut's favorite email quotes.)</p> <p>Phil Jones <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=154&amp;filename=942777075.txt">said</a> "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline.". He did <em>not</em> say "and I hope no one catches me because Mike and I described fully what we did in the scientific literature, what were we thinking?"</p> <p>Mann <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1048&amp;filename=1255352257.txt">said</a> he will contact BBC's Richard Black to find out why a BBC journalist published a sceptical article. He did <em>not</em> say he was contacting the IPCC's secret service to have the journalist brought in for "questioning" [evil laugh].</p> <p>Kevin Trenberth <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1048&amp;filename=1255352257.txt">says</a> "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." He did <em>not</em> say "and we better make something up quick or the funding gravy train will come off the rails."</p> <p>Tom Wigley <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1066&amp;filename=1257532857.txt">said</a> "A bunch of us are putting something together on the latest Lindzen and Choi crap." He did <em>not</em> say "A bunch of us are putting some crap together on the latest Lindzen and Choi paper."</p> <p>Tom Wigley <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1067&amp;filename=1257546975.txt">tells</a> Jones "Land warming since 1980 has been twice the ocean warming -- and skeptics might claim that this proves that urban warming is real and important." He did <em>not</em> say "skeptics might realize that this proves that urban warming is real."</p> <p>Russian scientist Dedkova <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1&amp;filename=826209667.txt">said</a> "Of course, we are in need of additional money, especially for collecting wood samples at high latitudes and in remote regions. The cost of field works in these areas is increased many times during the last some years[....] Also, it is important for us if you can transfer the ADVANCE money on the personal accounts[...]. Only in this case we can avoid big taxes and use money for our work as much as possible." She did <em>not</em> say "wire it to one of my usual Swiss bank accounts. To hell with the research, it's time for a new private jet!"</p> <p>Overpeck <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=868&amp;filename=1206628118.txt">said</a> "I've also seen the quote about getting rid of the MWP - it would seem to go back many years, maybe even to around the TAR. I've no idea where it came from. I didn't say it!". He did <em>not</em> say "but let's do it, data be damned!"</p> <p>Phil Jones <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=940&amp;filename=1228330629.txt">said</a> about the "FOI person" "Once they became aware of the types of people we were dealing with, everyone at UEA [...] became very supportive." He did <em>not</em> say "too bad everyone likes McIntyre, it will make it harder to resist his FOI requests."</p> <p>Ben Santer <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=967&amp;filename=1237496573.txt">said</a> "If the RMS is going to require authors to make ALL data available - raw data PLUS results from all intermediate calculations - I will not submit any further papers to RMS journals." He did <em>not</em> say "because that would reveal all my fraudulent research. We should eliminate the RMS."</p> <p>Mike Mann <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=484&amp;filename=1106322460.txt">said</a> about the journal GLR "They have published far too many deeply flawed contrarian papers in the past year or so. There is no possible excuse for them publishing all 3 Douglass papers and the Soon et al paper. These were all pure crap." He did <em>not</em> say "These were all good research, but they don't toe the party line"</p> <p>Mike Mann <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1026&amp;filename=1254259645.txt">said</a> "legitimate scientific skepticism is exercised through formal scientific circles, in particular the peer review process. A necessary though not in general sufficient condition for taking a scientific criticism seriously is that it has passed through the legitimate scientific peer review process. those such as McIntyre who operate almost entirely outside of this system are not to be trusted." He did <em>not</em> say "those such as McIntyre who operate almost entirely outside of this system can not be controlled."</p> <p>Gary Funkhouser <a href="http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=12&amp;filename=843161829.txt">said</a> "I pulled every trick out of my sleeve trying to milk something out of [the Kyrgyzstan proxy material]. [...] I don't think it'd be productive to try and juggle the chronology statistics any more than I already have - they just are what they are." He did <em>not</em> say "so I had to fix the data."</p> <p>Phil Jones said "I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow". And yet they did appear in the next IPCC report.</p> <p>I guess the serious point behind this facetious exercise is that what the emails contained is less revealing than what they did not contain. If the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/11/judith_curry_plants_her_flag.php">conspiracy theorists</a> are to be believed, somewhere in these thousands of private emails should have been something serious, something incriminating without removing the context or reading between the lines in the most paranoid way possible. The best the denialosphere had was the infamous "hide the decline" comment which only worked when intentionally stripped of all context. There should have been something more than petty, ordinary character flaws. Some candid admission that what they are doing is wrong, or risky. Some confession that the sceptics were right. Some mention of enjoying the ill gotten gains. </p> <p>But there is no there there, and there never was. </p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/illconsidered" lang="" about="/author/illconsidered" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">illconsidered</a></span> <span>Thu, 11/18/2010 - 05:16</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/debunking" hreflang="en">Debunking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/politics" hreflang="en">Politics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/swifthack" hreflang="en">swifthack</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climategate" hreflang="en">ClimateGate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cru-email" hreflang="en">CRU email</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mann" hreflang="en">Mann</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1591677" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1290314574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The incident was quite revealing in showing how the denialism meme network works. The selectively quoted emails functioned like a biological dye spreading through a cancer, such that Google could be used as the microscope. The emails also served a different function, in that it highlighted and perhaps strengthened the links between the AGW denialism movement and several other crackpot conspiratorial theories. It got JFK grassy knollers, birthers, tea partiers and 9-11 truthers like Alex Jones involved. The more that anthropogenic climate change denialists become indistinguishable from the likes of Colleen Thomas (See <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UAeSsvHhTg">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UAeSsvHhTg</a>) the easier it is for the general public to marginalise them.</p> <p>A counter-hacker might even be tempted to encourage the process by seeding their meme network with more conspiratorial rubbish. I'm sure that the likes of McIntyre and Watt sees the risk of having too many Alex Jones fans polluting their websites to the point of losing what illusory level of credibility they think they have left.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1591677&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z2SgH2wzn05dLoFtWjZ1O_psdpEA24sldD0Hf-kKXG0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">wagdog (not verified)</span> on 20 Nov 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1591677">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1591678" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1291042796"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It will be interesting to watch the news and commentators over the next few days, to see how they react to the Wikileaks publication of the 'hacked / stolen ' foreign cables.</p> <p>I am sure - for consistancy - that the leakers will be hailed in the right-wing press as heroes for exposing the scams in government and the hypocracy, name-calling and lack of professionalism.</p> <p>Or maybe not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1591678&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4TMNisfbED0E5tmzdvuMwKOhD3-JnKs-yFfeA4icp4A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">mandas (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1591678">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1591679" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1299241138"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For facts on global warming, don't miss this.<br /><a href="http://www.globalwarmingfacts.com">www.globalwarmingfacts.com</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1591679&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CwpP7vsWiiReTPxqY7AW8iEi-5MGLciWKFktlyk1kB0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Facts only (not verified)</span> on 04 Mar 2011 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1591679">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1591680" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1329242592"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I guess most of you by now will have heard of the release of the Heartland Institute documents. If not, check this out:</p> <p><a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-insider-exposes-institute-s-budget-and-strategy">http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-insider-exposes-institute-s-budget-…</a></p> <p>There are other documents out there as well. I wonder how this one will play out in the deniersphere. I'm going to bet that the hypocrisy will be breathtaking.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1591680&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="82SNC_WLC_aFzo_bge08PyVTFxqCh_OaXpj6YBzJK2w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">mandas (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1591680">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1591681" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1329272733"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Obviously, THIS release is from a hacker!!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1591681&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nN9tFHGMNTcj1FuiHaKEr0FqRsDl43HMxl8_LSeMvQ0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wow (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2012 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1591681">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/illconsidered/2010/11/climategate-one-year-later%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:16:02 +0000 illconsidered 41389 at https://scienceblogs.com Great video on Arctic sea ice https://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/08/great-video-on-arctic-sea-ice <span>Great video on Arctic sea ice</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Via a new blog started up this summer, <a href="http://www.fool-me-once.com/">Fool me Once</a> (sounds like wishful thinking ;-), proprieter Alden has graciously permitted me to embed a most excellent video he has produced on arctic sea ice.</p> <p>He is covering a standard denialist talking point, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/09/arctic-sea-ice-recovered-in-2008.php">that arctic sea ice has/is recovering</a>, so the concepts will not be unfamiliar to any regulars here, but the very clear trains of argument and great use of data and graphics make this well worth watching.</p> <!--more--><p><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.wellesley.edu/EnvironmentalStudies/Faculty/Griffith/Fool-Me-Once/seaice12.swf" pluginspage=" http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" height="360" width="480"></embed></p> <p>The original posting is <a href="http://www.fool-me-once.com/2010/08/arctic-sea-ice-is-just-fine-rebounding.html">here</a>.</p> <p>His <a href="http://www.fool-me-once.com/2010/07/global-warming-has-stopped.html">other post from about a month ago</a>, is similarily clear and compelling. (Warning: video starts automatically, so check your sound volume!). In it, he is addressing the "<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2006/04/warming-stopped-in-1998.php">global warming stopped in 1998</a>" canard, with a focus on Phil Jones' BBC interview in which a <a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/02/climategate_distortions/">scientifically nuanced comment on the unreliability of short term trends was intentionally twisted</a> beyond recognition. It is also a great illustration of a point climate realists are constatntly trying to make about <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/09/signal_vs_noise.php">finding a trend in noisy data</a>.</p> <p>I've said this before and it may sound like strong words, but I believe it is well justified: *any* scientifically trained individual that makes his claim that global warming has stopped is most likely outright lying, but at the very least is intentionally misleading an audience he/she assumes to be uninformed. Of course, this claim can come from simple ignorance as well. So beware <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/global_warming/bobcarter/">the liars</a>, but also beware <a href="http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/lord-moncktons-rap-sheet/">the crackpots</a>!</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/illconsidered" lang="" about="/author/illconsidered" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">illconsidered</a></span> <span>Mon, 08/23/2010 - 23:37</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/debunking" hreflang="en">Debunking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/multi-media" hreflang="en">multi-media</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/other-blogs" hreflang="en">other blogs</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/arctic-ice" hreflang="en">arctic ice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-sceptic-argument" hreflang="en">climate sceptic argument</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climategate" hreflang="en">ClimateGate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cru" hreflang="en">CRU</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/globalwarming" hreflang="en">globalwarming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> </div> </div> <section> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/illconsidered/2010/08/great-video-on-arctic-sea-ice%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 24 Aug 2010 03:37:33 +0000 illconsidered 41338 at https://scienceblogs.com Prominent climate skeptic defends Phil Jones https://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/05/prominent-climate-skeptic-defe <span>Prominent climate skeptic defends Phil Jones</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Roy Spencer, darling of the climate skeptic community, says he is not very organized, as Phil Jones said of himself, and that </p> <blockquote><p>"if you asked me to find original data from 20 years ago I'd have great difficulty too. We just didn't realise in those days how important and controversial this would all become - now it would just all be stored on computer." </p></blockquote> <p>This is quoted in a <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8694544.stm">BBC article</a> on the recent <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/greasy-heartland/">Heartland climate conference</a> in New York.</p> <!--more--><p>Spencer goes on to say:</p> <blockquote><p>"Phil Jones has been looking at climate records for a very long time. Frankly our data set agrees with his, so unless we are all making the same mistake we're not likely to find out anything new from the data anyway." </p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8694544.stm">Nods are given</a> to other speakers at the conference, such as Steve McIntyre, Richard Lindzen and the grand finale Christopher Monkton:</p> <blockquote><p> In a bravura performance he had the audience roaring at his mocking impersonation of "railway engineer Rajendra Pachauri - the Casey Jones of climate change"; hissing with pantomime fury at the "scandal" of Climategate, then emotionally applauding the American troops who have given their lives for the freedom that their political masters are surrendering to the global socialist tyranny of global warming. </p></blockquote> <p>And kudos to Roger Harrabin for the less-is-more understatement of the closing paragraph:</p> <blockquote><p>As the ecstatic crowd filtered out I pointed one delegate to a copy of the Wall Street Journal on the table. A front page paragraph noted that April had been the warmest on record.</p> <p>"So what?" he shrugged. "So what?"</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8694544.stm">Worth the read</a>:</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/illconsidered" lang="" about="/author/illconsidered" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">illconsidered</a></span> <span>Sat, 05/22/2010 - 07:04</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mainstream-media" hreflang="en">mainstream media</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/politics" hreflang="en">Politics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/swifthack" hreflang="en">swifthack</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-gate" hreflang="en">climate gate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climategate" hreflang="en">ClimateGate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cru-email" hreflang="en">CRU email</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/spencer" hreflang="en">spencer</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1589402" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1274535955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"He (Roy Spencer) thinks all the world's climate modellers are wrong to assume that the Earth's natural systems will augment warming from CO2, and he hopes that a forthcoming paper will prove his case."</p> <p>Yeah, despite all the times in Earth's distant past that CO2 has augmented warming, this time it's going to make an exception - maybe it's getting bored with warming and wants to try something new?.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1589402&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="q5oATBtZeOCRSWMqeGtNoumVpcWk5iZYels9sE_OiTo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dappledwater (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1589402">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1589403" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1274537264"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, DW, when you think about it, christianity is all about faith, so Spencer's had lots of practice :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1589403&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1tBS86WH8TVxN3vsA4DYFh7wNwb8dwncIkksKtKWY_w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dhogaza (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1589403">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1589404" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1274551951"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Interesting. I guess it's easy to pass one's self off as reasonable when surrounded by that lot.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1589404&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KCtULoKMIp8Auq8XVHxsfWZbOwdyAW0drFAWQ944-5U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve L (not verified)</span> on 22 May 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1589404">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/illconsidered/2010/05/prominent-climate-skeptic-defe%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Sat, 22 May 2010 11:04:52 +0000 illconsidered 41288 at https://scienceblogs.com Phil Jones vindicated some more https://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/14/phil-jones-vindicated-some-mor <span>Phil Jones vindicated some more</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The International Panel set up to examine the work of the Climate Research Unit has <a href="http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements/oxburgh">cleared the CRU of all charges of misconduct</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>We saw no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice in any of the work<br /> of the Climatic Research Unit and had it been there we believe that it is likely<br /> that we would have detected it.</p> </blockquote> <p>They also point the finger at who is to blame for the failure to release all the weather station data. The UK government:</p> <blockquote><p>It was not the immediate concern of the Panel, but we observed that there were<br /> important and unresolved questions that related to the availability of<br /> environmental data sets. It was pointed out that since UK government adopted<br /> a policy that resulted in charging for access to data sets collected by<br /> government agencies, other countries have followed suit impeding the flow of<br /> processed and raw data to and between researchers. This is unfortunate and<br /> seems inconsistent with policies of open access to data promoted elsewhere in<br /> government.</p> </blockquote> <p>See also: <a href="http://rabett.blogspot.com/2010/04/independent-inquiry-headed-by-lord.html">Eli Rabett</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/tlambert" lang="" about="/author/tlambert" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tlambert</a></span> <span>Wed, 04/14/2010 - 05:04</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-research-unit" hreflang="en">Climate Research Unit</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cru" hreflang="en">CRU</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915921" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271237592"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I had a quick trawl of the British newspaper headlines to see how they reacted and the most comical denial belongs to the Daily Telegraph, who lead with the title "<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7589715/Climategate-scientists-criticised-for-not-using-best-statistical-tools.html">'Climategate' scientists criticised for not using best statistical tools</a>". Everywhere else I could find (including even the Daily Mail), start with CRU's vindication as the headline. The Telegraph article only begrudgingly admits this four paragraphs in.</p> <p>Interestingly, the Telegraph do dwell on Lord Oxburgh's oil industry connections, while most other sources (including the BBC) seem to be quicker to point out his green energy links. It's like there's this rule in the British press that there has to be some kind of implied controversy somewhere.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915921&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KmBCuLOJXYEAOXxM0o93Uv4Ryn1yy4bw8ZKO7P-ejvk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JamesA (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915921">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915922" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271240737"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No doubt the Telegraph will find a sex scandal in it somewhere.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915922&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tJIufADyM_wv0Sa4hM8t23d2CacYcSs8hoKjpCS2tuY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915922">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915923" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271240882"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Great news, but hardly surprising. And not a whitewash, there was some justified critique.</p> <p>Did the denialsits really/honestly in their hearts of hearts think they had a case?</p> <p>I bet Monckton is doing another Hitler rant right now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915923&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZrhhFbJXDqcVeCZ7-HcqHkj55vnfiEqglo6fQ8rTRm0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915923">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915924" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271242113"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The dedicated deniosaurs won't change their tune. However I hope journalists give all this scientist-bashing a rest and write about more important matters. </p> <p>It's about time they concentrated more on what can be done, discussing political and regulatory changes that are needed to get rid of coal etc.</p> <p>I see that a Peruvian glacier caused a tidal wave yesterday, and of course the tropical glaciers in South America will all have disappeared soon, along with the water supply for thousands of people.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915924&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xp0F9rVfyQ3_kIquaV8tomArmZyjVU4oyVQILiyy1LY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915924">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915925" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271243713"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I subscribe to the Daily Telegraph â (effectively I get it for half price) â but Iâve never taken their GW stuff at all seriously. They have always treated this subject as potential for controversial debate (and therefore controversy sells more newspapers). </p> <p>Booker makes laugh with his weekly silliness, &amp; of course Lords Munchkin and Lawson have past editorial links with the DT.</p> <p>That said, all this stuff is the best advert Iâve seen for the old maxim âdonât believe everything you read in the newspapersâ.</p> <p>..............................</p> <p>Iâm not sure if it has been suggested anywhere else but Iâm going to look into suggesting Phil Jones gets an OBE or some other Royal award.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915925&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7Yr_h8C8_MP-jh7oVUCDitDG5owV4bylOMezO3jc7AM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Clippo (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915925">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915926" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271250395"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There were quite a few parts of the report worth highlighting, a couple of which I've picked out below:</p> <p>The prominent observation that "CRU did a public service of great value " - about time someone official came out loud and strong in praise of CRU. Without them we might not have realised the risk of disaster we face.</p> <p>And the questioning of FOI application in academia:<br /> "unresolved questions also arises from the application of Freedom of Information legislation in an academic context."</p> <p>I agree, FoI should not apply to academic research. It's quite the wrong mechanism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915926&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1F4G3eLx-wI5OQgEzHClqYj47Aa3dCMvbBOfw9khkhw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915926">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915927" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271251739"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: #1 JamesA</p> <p>Well, the Telegraph has an element of cluelessness.</p> <p>Lord Oxburgh is an old friend, via my wife (who did her PhD at Imperial College, where he was the Rector (#1) for years.] He used to come visit the SF Bay Area moderately often. IC also used to have several-day IC alumni meetings in various places around the world, and he attended. Each had little field excursions, of which the San Franciso one had a nice hike around Tiburon, with running commentary by Ron on the geology. (He's a geoscientist).</p> <p>He is very smart, very knowledgable, and very blunt, for example:<br /><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/jun/17/sciencenews.research">Oil chief: My fears for the planet</a> by David Adam (*that* freaked some people) or<br /><a href="http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=40">Peak oil</a> by David Strahan (likewise).</p> <p>Some nonobvious history: Shell got into trouble with some miss-statements, and they needed to pull in somebody with integrity and reputation to help clean up the mess, hence tapped Ron as Chairman of the Board.</p> <p>Note, of course, that Lord Ron is actually a member of the House of Lords, unlike someone else we know.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915927&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0z27fGk2hDDDuD5clY4CQ6zKoGQlyObPSx9uYRqlZRI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915927">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915928" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271252638"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Did the denialsits really/honestly in their hearts of hearts think they had a case?</p></blockquote> <p>What difference does it make if they have a case? </p> <p>Did you hear about how Glenn Beck raped a murdered a girl in 1990? I'm not saying he did, but there's a lot of people out there who claim so, and Beck has not provided conclusive proof that he didn't. I'm just sayin'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915928&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uF54uyH8Ci3aiQtDcwQBK8AztV9EDbCdWFpOuFddm-Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pandasthumb.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve Reuland (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915928">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915929" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271253501"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The last one had a committee stacked with 'Labor types' apparently, so that couldn't be trusted (plus it was a bit on the short side, in time and brief, I guess).<br /> This time we'll be hearing how the deck is stacked with 'science types', no doubt.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915929&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y9kb5YwCzarFrYiud6kJjH5mFlcfMSW21_XKup-Z-4U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Muzz (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915929">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915930" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271253742"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>John:</p> <p>&gt; No doubt the Telegraph will find a sex scandal in it somewhere.</p> <p>And eventually the Daily Mail will find a link to knife-wielding, glue-sniffing Muslim teenage mothers from Poland.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915930&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ljU-PlAjoSivtbY_l_g8biw-QA_roWc66tOe4Tesv18"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DavidCOG (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915930">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915931" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271257797"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>John @ 10 you forgot to mention that the Daily Mail will find all this out through astrology.</p> <p>(All praise to Private Eye for inventing the wonderful phrase, "shurely some mistake: editor")</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915931&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Rs3UtRg6X5rZjNpZP9xcH2V8WpmgiXWutRMZuyq8zw8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915931">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915932" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271258698"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Whoops! I meant DavidCOG, not John.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915932&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UsXqLDBR0cjaCq2LPy7_mCYuh8R7HJojbcZYhX35M0A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915932">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915933" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271258718"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh gawd. I had just a small hunch this might happen. Another vindication.</p> <p>Let's start bracing ourselves for the <i>third</i> round of screaming, ranting cries of "a conspiracy to hide the conspiracy!"</p> <p>You know the denialists have plenty of loonyism left in them yet.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915933&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QQmySaNk_uAmHJlhEC5tiPIm4ugUeb2jVRUL4I9x4K0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915933">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915934" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271260939"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>John Mashey,</p> <p>As you apparently know Lord Oxburgh and place great store in what he says, I trust you will take to heart his second conclusion</p> <p><i>"We cannot help remarking <b>that it is very surprising that research in an area that depends so heavily on statistical methods has not been carried out in close collaboration with professional statisticians.</b> Indeed there would be mutual benefit if there were closer collaboration and interaction between CRU and a much wider scientific group outside the relatively small international circle of temperature specialists"</i></p> <p>And bear in mind that this comment mirrors perfectly that of Wegman in his report. Perhaps you will also point this out to other posters on this blog?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915934&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xPDyeLMKcrCwC0P5uE5OFvjdOpkFt1ouV0JZY9l1ByE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915934">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915935" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271261050"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>'The Panel was not concerned with the question of whether the conclusions of<br /> the published research were correct. '</p> <p>No, they are more concerned with the integrity of CRU and maintaining a facade of normalcy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915935&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m8aq7KJ2xfWuNSy2Jo2lSjSAX-O1CEHXzaDeaWmaeH0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915935">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915936" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271261553"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Actually, CRU have done work with statisticians-- read Foster et al. (2010).</p> <p>Really trolls (you know who you are), best thing for you to do right now is to say nothing. The contrarians have suffered enough damage lately without contrarians mouthing off and spouting about conspiracy theories on blogs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915936&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CRUWZktBQ7Ug_fhJT67Y1anChywyWDhR4JC_ph0Wvuk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915936">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915937" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271261790"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews @ 14 Just checking, but you didn't miss the bit where they said that using better stats wouldn't have changed the conclusions of the papers, did you?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915937&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vMIgtrxk-YBA3idUmtnE_a1qlK_Xfcc04uKcCWErwq0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JamesA (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915937">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915938" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271262122"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh and trolls, McIntyre is not a statistician.</p> <p>Isn't it a lovely day today? :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915938&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="O2F_W-chr3aEmM6gMbfRe3LBz1yfR7QaO6KyyvScr5Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915938">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915939" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271262361"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JamesA:</p> <blockquote><p>I had a quick trawl of the British newspaper headlines to see how they reacted and the most comical denial belongs to the Daily Telegraph</p></blockquote> <p>And also New Scientist: <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18776-climategate-scientists-chastised-over-statistics.html">Climategate scientists chastised over statistics"&gt;.</a></p> <p>One howler published in the New Scientist Article is "Hand pointed out that the statistical tool Mann used to integrate temperature data from a number of difference sources â including tree-ring data and actual thermometer readings â produced an "exaggerated" rise in temperatures over the 20th century, relative to pre-industrial temperatures."</p> <p>New Scientist seems to have been sucked in by denialist misinformation to some degree.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915939&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_yfJsFE4AAmYGwmm-E6A_kJMAvTDRUxh9Lsd9d3h_YY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915939">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915940" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271262743"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And Dave Andrews did you not think that that the committee by saying that the CRU would benefit from a wider relationship with statisticians meant that would just help confirm the CRU's work before a wider audience, non discriminating audience, and so silence the mindless hounds (well nothing silences mindless hounds). </p> <p>BTW. It was a pity that Wegman was too busy employing his own network of associates to help him write his report as some impartial professionals would've just told him to drop it, no case. Another example of blinding by ideology. When are you guys ever going to learn.</p> <p>PS. WTalking about when are you guys ever going to learn when are you goign to send me your details Dave?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915940&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="18i3M38WhGmSaj94ktSw1RDXA5F9WRWHJA9Ppz9UGbo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915940">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915941" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271262832"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I liked this, I think Dr. Allen had a certain failed auditor in mind when he says this:</p> <p>"Yet climate scientist Myles Allen of the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom, is cautious about the panel's call for improved bookkeeping so that others can later review a body's work: "Science generally progresses by taking different approaches to problems and either confirming or refuting published results, not by 'auditing' old calculations. There is a danger that if climate science starts to be treated as a bookkeeping exercise, this would actually impede progress in understanding how the real Earth system works."</p> <p><a href="http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/04/oxburgh-report-clears-controvers.html?rss=1">http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/04/oxburgh-report-clears…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915941&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YMleyEPLIlnlOgPLl7Cbbk2ZaVqFcClmrrzFucaBpg0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915941">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915942" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271265846"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"...close collaboration with professional statisticians...".</p> <p>Sounds like a good idea.</p> <p>Pretty much rules out any collaboration with retired mining entrepreneurs, ex-weathermen, or boggle-eyed loons.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915942&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G4b_6j00esOIixM3R_b3zGyo2SvtA8HP08h19y8Yt_k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vince Whirlwind (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915942">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915943" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271267809"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is indeed good news, add this to the growing list of inquiries, investigations and the like and the deniers charges of "fraud" and "conspiracy" start to look even more shaky:</p> <p>&gt; Climate scientist Michael Mann cleared by Penn State<br /> UK Parliamentary Committee finds no evidence of fraud committed by CRU </p> <p>&gt; Amazongate was a journalistic âbeat upâ </p> <p>&gt; Rajendra Pachauri, the IPCC chairman has been audited by accounting giant KPMG and found to be clear of any charges of financial irregularities </p> <p>Question is, how will the spin this?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915943&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QnGfYySgo7LMwBxjFkaKG-IrfEIqnnB3tlXfIWiKhug"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">watchingthedeniers (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915943">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915944" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271269868"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>'All eyes are now turning to the inquiry headed by higher education official Muir Russell that is investigating whether the leaked e-mails are evidence of poor scientific practices, such as improperly withholding data. That panel should deliver its conclusions before the end of spring.'</p> <p>A little bit too narrow for my liking.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915944&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WAWKbOYsNwVxbNYKXtOLj2lm_uy3zoMtQYe6YbGxmUQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915944">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915945" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271271162"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Time to start some more enquiries. Sooner or later one of them must say something quote-mine-worthy (if you are a user of the portcullis and all that, just sayin').</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915945&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-_pKNKv1BuX3qXft5zjkY-L-30M4p_GANPUCfa4bEhA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Donald Oats (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915945">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915946" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271272006"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But... but... Alllll Gooooooreeeeeee!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915946&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-NvCtNpdzR7uEN4qk6ZSR0B9BT--OJGZDqxYc9s6zeY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ChrisC (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915946">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915947" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271272132"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry to go a bit OT again, but G Bird is getting more foul-mouthed every day. I rarely alert mods, but had to with his latest contribution to the Nova post on Unleashed.</p> <p>Maybe if someone else can complain the ABC will delete it more quickly. It's quite disgusting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915947&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p3-h71c45iHPNeK5J8yyE2lAGDd-jcuj5cOwV-zLNnE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915947">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915948" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271272559"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>'All eyes are now turning to the inquiry headed by higher education official Muir Russell that is investigating whether the leaked e-mails are evidence of poor scientific practices, such as improperly withholding data. That panel should deliver its conclusions before the end of spring.'</p> <p>Dunno where you picked that up from, El Gordo. But if it's an enquiry into the selective leaking of the hacked emails it might be a worthwhile exercise. </p> <p>After all, we have seen enough evidence now to conclude that these were released deliberately to mislead, when it has become clear that there is no problem with the integrity of the research or the conclusions drawn. </p> <p>The leakers must have already known that before they tried to mislead the world with cries of 'conspiracy' from the likes of McIntyre.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915948&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1HOP9HnCXhk_TIsXuQEQEkcoYGr6cUYvUHll5aIp__8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Don Wigan (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915948">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915949" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271274074"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#26 Sou. Birdy reminds me of a character from Dr Strangelove. I'm expecting him to start on fluoridation and precious bodily fluids any time now. Where is Kubrick when you need him?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915949&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="95k-2OZ1QJYI7zkLXSDIz3s5-ThGZBI6BnMarjoQy_I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">quokka (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915949">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915950" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271274463"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Interesting Sou</p> <p>The main article is off the frontpage of The Drum so it isn't easily accessible. You have to search google for it.</p> <p>Oddly enough when I was searching I went to Ms Codling's own site and found her touting for support. One poster (Mattb) was being explicitly asked by Ms Nova to repay her hospitality (ostensibly because MattB, if I am to believe it, is a supporter of mainstream science) by coming to her aid at The Drum against "ad hom" attacks. This was compared to bringing a bottle of wine to a dinner party.</p> <p>You have to laugh. What a fragile ego she must have. How amusing that her willingness to tolerate dissent from her party line entails a payment in publicly massaging her ego.</p> <blockquote><p>March 4th, 2010 at 6:00 pm<br /> MattB:<br /> March 4th, 2010 at 5:23 pm</p> <p>Matt, you have enjoyed the hospitality of Jo Nova for many months now. You would have also read some of the disparaging comments at the Drum.</p> <p>Iâm looking forward to seeing you defend(where appropriate) at the drum site, your long time host. (sort of like bringing a bottle of wine and a plate to the bbq)</p></blockquote> <p>"MattB" later responded that he'd said some "kind words" about her on a Hamilton post ... </p> <p>Hmmm</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915950&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kBNIHSf-LZc9qUo_fuSoiMUk-C-aoQ5KGYRGlu-pqag"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915950">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915951" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271275789"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I should have posted the link to the Nova article. <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2868937.htm#comments">Here</a> it is. </p> <p>GB is nasty to Lotharsson, jakerman, Jones and Mann and uses appalling imagery.</p> <p>I think Nova herself is a bit off in the head. Not as bad as GB, but she loses her cool very easily. Maybe it's the internal conflict from publicly denying what she knows to be true. (I'd term it cognitive dissonance except I don't think she believes what she's writing.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915951&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XmHhuKKBRzr6PgXDrRr1ASy5OIn9egcoAeGF6DFPZ7I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915951">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915952" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271278800"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>el gordo the village idiot:</p> <blockquote><p>'The Panel was not concerned with the question of whether the conclusions of the published research were correct. '</p> <p>No, they are more concerned with the integrity of CRU and maintaining a facade of normalcy.</p></blockquote> <p>That's right. They're in on the conspiracy too.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915952&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zQuIqlheMvcLfksDsmuYgGBVPRNOs7oOZtVfOc5Bwh8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915952">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915953" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271279755"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>El Gordo knows The Truth, man.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915953&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5-f7QG2rIyjMn2V-QcO0kpDMXAXuKLJJaCFrKjCGlM8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915953">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915954" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271280101"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No CON the terms of reference are too narrow, or so the sceptics grumble. Freddy Singer thinks it's a whitewash and I happen to agree with him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915954&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u38N4VvW_v7n_Df5cXoCn-nZl6LZpazb3_oGWTobRaI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915954">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915955" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271281882"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>El Gordo, it is abundantly clear to us that despite three completely seperate inquiries (and counting) that have found there is no actual evidence of conspiracy or data fudging, you guys will continue calling for taxpayers money to be spent on inquiries until one of them finds what you darn well want it to find.</p> <p>I imagine that most sceptics want the terms of reference extended to include whether Phil Jones or other climate scientists were ever naughty boys when they were in grade school. Then, when it is exposed that they hid a live hampster in Deputy Headmistress Miss Maple's office desk when they were 7, it will finally be known to the world that they could never be trusted.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915955&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="45oscw1lEzyYuJjWlGNmCZcPux4C0HoaLjQ2eA7e8lM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915955">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915956" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271282112"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Did the denialsits really/honestly in their hearts of hearts think they had a case? </p></blockquote> <p>The more I see, the more I think Ms Nova genuinely thinks so. Despite her science degree, she seems a bit clueless about how science works, and clearly hasn't read the papers that she snipped the graphs from.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915956&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="llIgsJ7yi5oU4mCvKLc9NVXpmYZrftc4k5ctzfEcObQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915956">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915957" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271282291"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lotharsson or anyone else using "" marks on the drum. </p> <p>When I use "" I get my text botched with code. I noticed Loth is getting clean "quote marks", why me?</p> <p>Any tips?</p> <p>BTW I wonder if there is a limit to long the ABC will allow this thread to go? </p> <p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2868937.htm">http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2868937.htm</a></p> <p>1140 comments and counting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915957&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W5idu8WnBx8dNcoSegWP2-AmyESnNI0woDxFgslKMwo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915957">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915958" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271282339"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> ...by coming to her aid at The Drum against "ad hom" attacks... </p></blockquote> <p>Amusingly she's resorting to ad hom herself, presumably when she doesn't feel she has an argument. And given that she's quite willing to do a Bird-like "no it's not" without any substantiation, that's saying something.</p> <blockquote><p> I think Nova herself is a bit off in the head. Not as bad as GB... </p></blockquote> <p>I've been noting some behavioural similarities with GB ("no, it's not" and primary-school like retorts), although I agree she's not in the same league.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915958&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mY5MYe7yo49KGt09eoKEACEDgD1UZFSGHTznivfaeHA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915958">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915959" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271282638"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And while we're at it, it's amusing to see Ms Nova's conspiracy theory that Zibethicus and I are agents of JP Morgan combined with an appeal to my lack of authority because I don't use my real world name.</p> <blockquote><p> And until you identify yourselves with a reputation that matters, we'll just assume you are agents of JP Morgan OK? </p></blockquote> <p>As I said:</p> <blockquote><p> Ms Nova, just like Graeme Bird above, was against argument by appeal to authority until she was for it.</p></blockquote> <p>(Bird was earlier complaining about jakerman and I attempting to undermine the reputation of eminent scientists such as Plimer...which is rather at odds with his claim that appeal to authority is fallacious. I wish they'd make their mind up!)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915959&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2wqKjRkeC4HwHn_oldWanIaspcddrPQFnOevSvem51Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915959">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915960" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271283015"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Did the denialsits really/honestly in their hearts of hearts think they had a case? </p></blockquote> <p>Of course. They exist in echo chambers and genuinely believe that they know The Truth. It's quite a shock for them when they venture out of their denialist bio-dome to find that they're out of their depth (i.e Brent in the Emperical Evidence thread)</p> <p>Gordo is just jealous of the "gravy train" <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_shady_offer_from_the_solar_carpetbaggers/">he's not a part of</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>What worries me, is why the coal industry isnât a little more combative against the climate change zealots? Ralph Hillman became the new executive director of the Australian Coal Association last August.</p> <p>He is a government man, being a former ambassador for the Environment and the OECD. He was also head of the Trade Development division of the Dept. Foreign Affairs and Trade.</p> <p>Is he the right man for the job? Does he know that AGW is a monstrous fraud? Does the coal industry have a PR arm? If not, I gladly offer my services for a small consideration. </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915960&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qmCrIdEYiCy7uwnQFG70fgaVbf670D6JPSzQJXEVk6U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915960">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915961" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271284680"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Also regarding <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18776-climategate-scientists-chastised-over-statistics.html">New Scientist's story on this</a>, it says something that is a little bizarre:</p> <blockquote><p>Hand agrees with Mann: he too says that the hockey stick â showing an above-average rise in temperatures during the 20th century â is there. The upward incline is just shorter than Mann's original graphic suggests. "More like a field-hockey stick than an ice-hockey stick," he told New Scientist.</p></blockquote> <p>The upward incline is supposed to be the instrumental incline. That instrumental record has not changed significantly since Mann's original paper. Also, there is the ongoing obsession with Mann's original papers almost to the exclusion of more recent papers with better statistical methods.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915961&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JuZUIyk5l0kCtYLSGJqH9L4LXyAu_tMOSVgcKvsG_Ck"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915961">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915962" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271285670"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ 27 Sou </p> <p>Mike from WTD here. </p> <p>Ignore Bird Sou, he hit my site with really vile stuff a few weeks back, but I shut him down. Honestly the language. See also PZ Myers blog for the "G Bird" thread. </p> <p>As with all trolls, do not feed. I was subject to a cyber bullying campaign from him and other Jo Nova forum posters. </p> <p>At first I was shocked, but now I'm "meh". I've learnt how to handle them. </p> <p>In the end they are angry little men you can't reason, debate or hold an intelligent conversation. All they have is their hatred for anyone who dares question "their" beliefs. </p> <p>Bird is a *very unwell* person who is desperate to get attention - any form of attention.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915962&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="b0P47H9gLzM6yu3FGcFx2PSuuH0ZAqQgkqsFda7Lp9I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">watchingthedeniers (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915962">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915963" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271285813"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Do they think we came down in the last shower? All the authors of this Oxbow character's report are PROFESSORS! Of course they would close ranks behind one of their own.</p> <p>I want to see an IMPARTIAL report on this matter by a panel of eminent tabloid op-ed columnists. Who will of course all read the 11 key scientific papers at issue.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915963&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QZAXDh__k1kYE04jyZWVgu96Kn2WKx-0pC8eVaQ1ZdM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jack horner (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915963">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915964" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271285890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> When I use "" I get my text botched with code. I noticed Loth is getting clean "quote marks", why me? </p></blockquote> <p>I don't know. It looks like a bug in their website, but I think I've had it happen to me once or twice.</p> <p>I'm using Firefox, but I sometimes have The Drum in an IETab so it's Internet Explorer - which suggests it's not just browser-specific.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915964&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rHr-NnJhXX_x4b72h5ABHbv0eoNXAD9FwBwWohKSJgQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915964">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915965" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271286386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>jakerman, it might be single quote chars that are getting screwed up at The Drum. I saw that on one of your recent posts.</p> <p> IIRC some websites "escape" single quotes because they can be used to attack databases, but I don't know if that's the reasons.</p> <p>Try replacing any single quote chars with either double quotes or maybe a backquote or something and see...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915965&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DLY1NlhnyU97OVzDbxWyB9c2M6X5mUNqVnDFbvi2Skg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915965">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915966" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271286893"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Cheers Lotharsson,</p> <p>Unfortnately even my apostries are getting munched. </p> <p>Thanks agian.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915966&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="26OeReR6WBMBjn2mCTCNOK-bCr7ft70zhld2swO0ZJE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915966">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915967" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271286988"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Freddy Singer thinks it's a whitewash and I happen to agree with him.<br /></p><blockquote> <p>Well you must be relieved to know you're not the only one in the whole wide world to be left out of the consipiracy, El Gullibo.</p> <p>Keep searching, though, there may be others. You could form a little club and have meetings and elect officals and such.</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915967&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cus6LjmN4Oo08DpSkgJvO8xz5bEcuAkXSDiZsstG1Tg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gaz (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915967">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915968" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271287385"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Heads up guys (apologies TimL for the post) but I've got wind of the deniers counter offensive. It's starting, as expected :D</p> <p>A good source of mine alerted me to a new email campaign by the Institute of Public Affairs that is hitting Australian MP's *today*. </p> <p><a href="http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/new-denialist-campaign-from-ipa-the-counter-offensive-has-begun/">http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/new-denialist-campai…</a></p> <p>Contributions from Pilmer, Monckton et.al. I suspect that this will go to conservative politicians on both sides and may become a reference point. It's a slick site, evidence of a big PR push.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915968&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UCdaeHJdCsdjkFQyi1NKuIGVB7xpYw5lLcvp6hWQYTw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">watchingthedeniers (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915968">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915969" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271289849"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>...have found there is no actual evidence of conspiracy or data fudging...</p></blockquote> <p>The bigger story (which nobody seems interested in talking about) is how big a <b>failure</b> the "conspiratorial data fudging" was in the end. Think about it. They all got together to fudge data, and all they ended up with was pretty much the same thing as denialists Spencer and Christy.</p> <p>Either that or all the assumptions of data fudging and conspiracy are just wrong, but we know that can't be true. Can it?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915969&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n6s52QD6lS-rfeW8ALAV3NUzy0OUW5xaOI5_bajUry8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915969">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915970" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271292354"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> They all got together to fudge data, and all they ended up with was pretty much the same thing as denialists Spencer and Christy. </p></blockquote> <p>I've been pointing out similar failures at The Drum, and they just can't seem to find it in their heads to make a coherent rebuttal.</p> <p>For example, the CRU data set warms more slowly than the others. Incompetent fraudsters - made it COOLER in an attempt to create fake warming to support their bogus AGW theory.</p> <p>They "dropped" the cooler stations from the thermometer record - but those show a slower warming trend. Bumbling fraudsters made it look COOLER.</p> <p>And "they tuned their data to fit their models" - er, which model? They all predict a bit differently. If you tune your data to fit the output of a model, you make it WORSE for other models. Hapless fraudsters.</p> <p>Get us some REAL fraudsters from the finance sector and let's see what they can achieve ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915970&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qqRVe-lBweemdS3ogUNKs0U_u-QVQnRiuw5twUyCUE4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915970">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915971" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271294619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Oxburg inquiry seems to be really getting the Denialati in a tizzy about the Evil Communist AGW Conspiracy.</p> <p>However, neither the inquiry's result nor the denialists' response is unexpected.</p> <p>I have to repeat my praise for Lotharsson's efforts on the Nova thread at The Drum. Jakerman, Sou, Zibethicus, and a number of others have been putting in good work too, and overall they have really popped Nova/Codling's bubble. She must be wishing now that she'd never posted in the first place, given how scientifically incompetent, and how ideologically blinkered, she appears.</p> <p>I've lost count now of the number of times that I've tried to repeat my reply to Codling regarding the nature of her scientific credentials, or to simply link to the [reposting of the original message on Deltoid](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/climate_denial_crock_on_monckt.php#comment-2424754">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/climate_denial_crock_on_monckt…</a>). One or two other comments of mine have made it through, but most seem to disappear.</p> <p>I'm not sure if I'm on a moderation/"report" blacklist, or if it's just a bug with getting the messages through in the first place, but I'm glad to see the others there bearing the standard for scientific objectivity and reason.</p> <p>Thanks guys.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915971&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TOIUeeXjYlRfEkMeQQkHNXVj91Jwwc-K-vYkf3sZ-EA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915971">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915972" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271294800"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>El Gordo: "Freddy Singer thinks it's a whitewash".<br /> [Fred Singer](<a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=S._Fred_Singer">http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=S._Fred_Singer</a>). ROFL.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915972&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VOu30mGqcqPeD0lKCgW47WsjKogTWayvIwgja8ugjnc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Haughton (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915972">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915973" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271294956"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Jakerman, Sou, Zibethicus, and a number of others... </p></blockquote> <p>I think it really helps to have a number of voices, otherwise they think it's just one or two totally unreasonable people who are illogical and blinkered or flat out lying in the service of Big Finance or Big Green (or should that be Big Black? Or Big Government? Or the One World Conspiracy to Cede Sovereignty To The U.N. Global Government And Suck All Your Tax Dollars Out Of Your Wallet To Line The Pockets Of ... er, is it The Third World In The Name Of Western De-industrialiation And Communism Reborn, or is it Big Big Companies Who Want To Make Billions Off Trillion Dollar Markets? I can never keep up with the latest broadcasts from Conspiracy Central.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915973&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wEUFqI1hrd6RmLwMQdIC8WkYImyt9-6R1EVBTIm4yAU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915973">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915974" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271295826"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>jakerman:<br /> You appear to have given up your noble efforts vs Malcom Roberts over at <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2861936.htm">ABC, in the "Whinge" thread</a>. that is wise, as Roberts:</p> <p>EITHER<br /> a) Is one of the most Dunning-Kruger-afflicted people on the planet<br /> OR<br /> b) Deserves about 10 Physics Nobels for disprovng much of modern physics.</p> <p>Just out of curiosity, does anyone know more of him?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915974&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d9FbHW01Z5VY_aDM1ziiZrpI9nOSY4H6N6PbM8aqWsI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915974">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915975" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271296211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Congrats to all who have put in the hard work over at the thread. You know who you are.</p> <p>It's a revolting job, but I guess it has to be done. Perhaps constant reiteration of the facts will eventually cleanse the Augean stables.</p> <p>Certainly, Ms Nova's descent into downRight Bircher-style conspiracy-calling is at least suggestive of an incipent meltdown caused by the recent and painful overdose of reality.</p> <p>In a way you have to feel sorry for her - until you think about what she's trying to do to others.</p> <p>I suggest that in view of the fact that, as Lotharsson points out, the CRU data set is actually a mid-range one, a bit of harping on this fact mightn't go astray. It seems to me that the Deniosaurs are getting more unreachable than ever, but the undecided might just start to wonder what they're being spoonfed if they get to hear about things like that - if the CRU were conspiring, why would they do it to get a mediocre result?</p> <p>Things like that might reach some people who can't or won't follow more detailed discussions.</p> <p>If the IPA are out and about again, presumably Alan Moran will reappear on the Drum shortly. One wonders with what line...</p> <p>*</p> <p>Lotharsson - you think they're trying to be nasty on the Drum, go check Nova's blog. I passed by earlier, nose firmly plugged;</p> <p>papertiger:<br /> April 14th, 2010 at 12:58 am</p> <p>I see these names of the heaters again. Carolus Linnaeus, Lotharsson, Zibethicus,<br /> and it reminds me of where the hockey team dug up Tamino aka grant foster.<br /> Trolling for floozies at a renaissance faire.</p> <p>What are the chances theyâre all members of Open Mindâs green wool tight wearing traveling minstrel band?<br /> And I mean that in the literal sense, not as a euphemism.</p> <p>(end quote)</p> <p>I resent and strenuously deny the suggestion that I wear green wool tights. I don't have the figure for it these days...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915975&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CemxoonDiALKkWcA_elsg2vdnF-pzbtogB959qnQ8GA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zibethicus (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915975">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915976" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271296288"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've just been back to the ABC to see how things are going. I must say I'm surprised. I thought Nova had a science degree, majoring in microbiol or similar. But the only post I noticed where she discussed anything remotely scientific was when she said she'd analysed temperatures, and then referred to those silly charts that have been floating around denialist sites for months. Obviously not hers. Not sure if she's in with the denialist in-crowd or if she is just a wannabe, but she really showed herself up with that one. Wonder if she regrets that article, given how foolish it makes her look. Especially her silly comments. She has no sense of how to behave on a forum. Just like McLean.</p> <p>@41 Hi Mike - agree with you 100%. I rarely respond to GBird. I realise he's unstable and has a psychological disorder. Sometimes he gets so worked up I wonder if he'll survive and I don't want to be the one to tip him totally over the edge. There was another thread where he got a bit carried away (Stephan Lewandowski's I think) and he just went on and on making less and less sense. I stayed right away.</p> <p>I figure the ABC mods have a sense of the ridiculous, which is why they leave his posts (and maybe why they allowed Nova's article through). Enough rope and all that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915976&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z_ttHzclCbfcpHo9_Vt4DSTC12OOKLIdVs1TFIKK3j4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915976">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915977" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271296815"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Zibethicus - lol. </p> <p>I confess to having olive green wool tights, made by Christian Dior and bought many years ago in Georges (for those old enough to remember). I used to flatter myself they looked quite smart with a lovely Jaeger winter suit (still got the jacket, but not the skirt).</p> <p>And speaking of the climate, these days the green wool tights mostly get worn under ski pants up at Falls Creek.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915977&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Anr2FpOc_i-9Uu6oD4e2p8shVy76vDEIctKBusjO3mw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915977">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915978" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271297207"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> I resent and strenuously deny the suggestion that I wear green wool tights. I don't have the figure for it these days... </p></blockquote> <p>LOL! I resent it too - mine are modern hardcore thermal tights and they're most decidedly not green. It doesn't go with my complexion ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915978&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vU3TT5o_Upp6n3bMxHd1_vOvcfcq76LoRTCDZ9CGwyg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915978">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915979" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271297357"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> I rarely respond to GBird. I realise he's unstable and has a psychological disorder. </p></blockquote> <p>I generally try and avoid it too, but on some points it seems worth it.</p> <p>I thought Ms Nova refused to have him at her website, but IIRC he's posting over at her self-congratulatory thread about The Drum.</p> <p>And I dryly note that in her world, apparently having many comments is a success - never mind that most of them point out the emperor has no clothes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915979&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kTpBpM3700Dl69LvWcC4K5h86HR3cDuQStZPrwmQV2Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915979">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915980" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271297503"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, and to make sure there are no lingering misconceptions - you know how they tend to get blown up into evidence of dastardly deception and the like - my thermal tights aren't wool!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915980&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sCXh6nLfbwZDFq18tfAVVf40VOXEXaDgJ-A43-fTRi4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915980">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915981" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271298102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>RE Nova's site, I've been tracking it for some months now, thre is very little discussion of the science (surprise). </p> <p>However, there is a great deal of talk about how the finance industry is "controlling" the debate and are really "behind it all". She notes that the greens and scientists are 'working to further the vested interests" of the finance houses.</p> <p>Sometimes I think it is coded wording you, know, that other *conspiracy* theory about "international finance*. No proof, but have been digging. </p> <p>It's hard to put together a coherent picture of her world view, but I'm trying ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915981&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="driUC5SJCKQGuRvG7tWICR5_Pi-5YcLC1FnFr1wZ0W0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com">Watchingtheden… (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915981">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915982" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271298363"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi Fran in #30,</p> <p>I remember that discussion I think my kind words were along the lines of "ahh a lot of folks a Nova's site are ok, they've just got the science wrong." For my sins I am a regular there mostly because I like arguing, I like to know what skeptics think, and on most mainstream sites there is very little I can add to the often expert opinions expressed.</p> <p>I have a feeling, however, that the post you quote was from one of her #1 fanbois, not Jo herself. They do tend to think it is the least I can do for their tolerance of my mainstream science views:)</p> <p>I'll get dobbed in over there by the flying monkeys, but Jo Nova's site has an uncanny resemblance to the dying days of Marohasy's blog... too little science, too much conspiracy, then kaput.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915982&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_llXpykO4qvLJHSsNtKLEBnGDRKGPwHHd4pI_u1prKk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MattB (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915982">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915983" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271298633"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And may I just put on record that my "kind words" predated the request:)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915983&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ODAqk71EjFFHpCDD_VbjUAffamjNHH4X88VSyeDHouA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MattB (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915983">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915984" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271298917"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And Fran you intrigued me to go back and find out what I had said on a Hamilton piece.</p> <p>"Clive,</p> <p>I'm 100% of the belief that the skeptics have generally got the science wrong, and that AGW is a real situation that needs action in terms of reducing greenhouse emissions.</p> <p>However, I blog a lot at JoNova's site, and until they changed the blog software in to a community and needed registration etc I blogged alot with the lovely Agmates community. I would genuinely say that 99% of posters at those two sites are just honest fair-dinkum aussies who have the science wrong at varying degrees of wrongness. (as have I most likely) There are plenty of educated folks who think that AGW is a crock and maybe it is time we accept that and deal with it, just as we do with any other political issue at hand.</p> <p>Need I point out to you that the anti-nuclear movement whips left-leaning types up in exactly the same manner, backed up by the same style of pseudo science and emotive arguments.</p> <p>On the whole though this is a good and thought-provoking piece, but to characterise the motley crew at JoNova and Agmates as some sort of organised collective of obscure extreme right wing nut-jobs I think only reinforces their viewpoints that there are those who would rather smear them rather than confront the science.</p> <p>Cheers,</p> <p>Matt"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915984&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Km6SYmuJ4X1id6YAZJVNcqXZAHex2ngxxr4pCFl2Xi4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MattB (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915984">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915985" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271299014"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated_some_mor.php#comment-2430701">@ John Mashey #53</a></p> <p>I picked up this tidbit from one of his posts. Malcolm Roberts is a member of the <a href="http://carbon-sense.com/about/">Carbon Sense Coalition</a>, which is chaired by a grandfather in Queensland. There is a pdf file on the site that has more details. He's a management consultant, I'm guessing in HR going by the name of his operation. Looks like your first guess (D-K afflicted) is correct.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915985&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mkEqOz7RS5MxcdjAfTMMJ61XJnRQ1LVSW6Omr58JcPs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915985">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915986" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271299799"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated_some_mor.php#comment-2430747"> MattB</a><br /> I remember that exchange. Nova's site is one thing. I've only been there once for a look see (yesterday) and from what I read I have to agree with Clive Hamilton, especially after the Unleashed diatribe.</p> <p>Re AgMates, from what I can see of it, that's just a site for farmers, mainly. There's a crew there that talks about climate and are very much in the denier camp, some most vehemently. But there are others there who take a stand against them. Agmates isn't only about climate, it's just another networking site. It's unfortunate that a crowd used it to organise the Monckton tour. Gave the whole site a bad name.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915986&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sAYZ-cIMhr_z1iHnltgEkgtMPq51uAiZ7bmSnbwXXhE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915986">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915987" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271299950"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>jakerman @ 37<br /> The ABC encode their web pages using char set "iso-8859-1" (probably to support foreign languages). Your browser is most likely posting the more common utf-8 (like this page) and the html encoded characters are getting mixed up. Try to avoid pasting text from anything other than notepad. Or depending on your browser try checking the menu "View&gt;Encoding" (in IE8) and making sure Auto Select is ticked. Hope that helps.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915987&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6ZLtqweyx21RyC7B8I7ZaLvNtFtuwC1LU93yi-cuAJo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeH (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915987">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915988" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271300209"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Agmates used to present like a regular blog, and I just stumbled across it one day and hung around. It was good honest discussion and Steve had no pretentions of being across the science really. It then turned skeptical and attracted a hardcore crowd. Same for JoNova's site... I once commented there that I'd just done 12 rounds with Birdy, and she replied that she would not have his kind around. But since Unleashed he is a regular. Trying to wean myself off to be honest;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915988&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R9mPi6Fy7hc4Zl598RX3vSpdDPsZR4RCYBxHNU1u6Iw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MattB (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915988">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915989" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271302850"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ MattB and Sou</p> <p>I was on Nova's boards for some time, and share your sentiments as well. Many of the "sceptics" there are actually intelligent, articulate etc. </p> <p>However they are being actively mislead. I make a distinction between "deniers" - the professionals such as Nova, Bolt, Monckton, Watts et.al - and the "sceptics", the ordinary individuals who have been "tricked" (see my pun on Mann meme there?). </p> <p>I noticed how much Nova shapes the discussion on her posts, very selective in what she will allow through: if it looks like an argument strong enough, then</p> <p>Plus, professional deniers such as Richard S. Courtney (form Europe) will actually *intervene* if things look bad. Several times when I posted real science studies and made a little headway, Courtney would pop in like a denialist superman. He'd blind them with science, and they believed him. </p> <p>I ran a little experiment on Nova's blog which got me banned, but it was worth it: [The Dunning-Kruger effect: deniers may âtake downâ what they donât understand but at heart they are curious](<a href="http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/the-dunning-kruger-effect-deniers-may-take-down-what-they-dont-understand-but-at-heart-they-are-curious/">http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/the-dunning-kruger-e…</a>).</p> <p>This is what I did: </p> <p>*The Dunning-Kruger effect describes a cognitive bias, whereby individuals with limited skills â but with an overconfidence in their skill set â overestimate their abilities. I would contend the denial movement is rich with such individuals, who may be highly competent in other areas, but display a remarkable lack of understanding of science and the scientific method. I tested one such âdenier communityâ for signs of Dunning-Kruger with positive results. While not an actual piece of research, I believe the responses I gathered tend to support the idea that many in the denial movement exhibit cognitive biases such as the Dunning-Kruger effect.However I also learnt that many of the âdeniersâ are articulate, curious about the world and actively engaged in trying to understand some of the science.*</p> <p>It warranted a nice email from Jo herself ;) They got punk'd. They were not happy. </p> <p>Basically, my take these guys are being manipulated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915989&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xfd1hiRVlbhrLx-m0D5Xk5DlSGB5-ji85GGIuM0NRVs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com">Watchingtheden… (not verified)</span> on 14 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915989">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915990" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271306139"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mike, the responses you got were really good examples of the D-K effect as far as I can tell.</p> <p>I agree with you, the posters who present themselves as intelligent and articulate and knowledgeable are the manipulators. They know what's happening but are pushing a political viewpoint. I figure they are at best amoral, if not immoral. </p> <p>There are the occasional visitors who are intelligent and articulate, but once they get some knowledge they have to choose whether to run with the politics or run with the facts. If the latter, they don't hang around very long.</p> <p>The others (what I call the chorus) are just along for the ride. Probably a lot of them are there because they feel comfortable. They are either not interested or incapable of researching the facts. Some of them are anti-intellectual, fear learning and loathe academia. That's one take anyway FWIW. Doesn't mean much. Without proper sociological research I'm baffled by the motives and psychology.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915990&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DRPSQgdNRqzVLQhltSX62KRF_U4_hljvv6_QYx41TDU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915990">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915991" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271306410"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@69:</p> <p>Yes.. for some of them it often seems quite bizarre.</p> <p>The thing is, they will happily follow any argument, even fairly complex, as long as the conclusion 'and therefore AGW is correct' is never reached.</p> <p>If you've ever read Orwell's 1984, you'll see an accurate description in that of CrimeStop</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimestop">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimestop</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915991&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="geTsHn5Y9o6k6JjQ-YeiiPVRQldoo2UpkgjrBsapcYg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew Dodds (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915991">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915992" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271309118"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>el gordo (15, 24, 34).<br /> I still can't see what you're whining about. The Panel investigated the <b>methods</b> (of data collection and data analysis) the CRU used. Irrespective of the conclusions, if the methods were suspect that would have been game over, <i>finis</i>, and the Panel would have had no choice but to report on any shonky methodology.</p> <p>On top of that, you persist in stating the brief was "too narrow". What would you have had the Panel investigate - what they had for lunch? What shoes they wore? Whether their socks matched? Pray tell how it is that you <b>know</b> that there is untold skulduggery afoot here. </p> <p>In short: either back up what you say with the necessary evidence, or back down and (need I remind you) apologise for continuing to impugn the reputations of people you've never met.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915992&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zZj-6lc10Ix-9MpAY336iHBn2EDskYXIKxbARJr84_g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SteveC (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915992">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915993" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271309255"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's a long time since I last read 1984. Most apt.</p> <p>MattB - congrats on your analysis of the list of 'non-peer reviewed' references over on the Nova blog (also doing the rounds of WUWT etc). Their whole exercise was a joke from start to end. First they make up that the IPCC only references peer reviewed literature, and then they set out to disprove what was never said in the first place. Weird. (Could make a good post on WatchingTheDeniers!)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915993&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FyTQMTOrRpFtdNP74eKHeDuyq5dIHQHae9juHaLDWlg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915993">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915994" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271309308"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The D-K effect accounts for a lot of the misconception regarding climate science, but there are also other cognitive processes that guide one's choice of belief. There are some recent good studies on cultural cognition which show a causal link between scientific belief and one's world view:</p> <p><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1549444">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1549444</a></p> <p><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1017189">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1017189</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915994&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B9ZgUN1VNa-BM2Y6Xouc_DTU3gq5NYFe4IeQNspBBB0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">savemejeebus (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915994">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915995" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271310387"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>42 watchingthedeniers,</p> <p>Yes, GMB is quite something, isn't he? Here's some more of his [shining wit](<a href="http://notahedgehog.wordpress.com/2008/12/25/the-christmas-spirit/">http://notahedgehog.wordpress.com/2008/12/25/the-christmas-spirit/</a>). </p> <p>What's odd is that other "sceptics" don't seem to complain about him. You'd think they would realise he's not someone you'd want on your side.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915995&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="be4r-s3oqDI4MmftQFdEhyAsqrU30ceNerlql6M8e0Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TrueSceptic (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915995">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915996" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271311200"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Sou et.al</p> <p>I agree with additional comments on the possible rationale or reasons for denial. Interacting with these communities is illustrative, at the very least I feel I gain some insight into how they operate and think. </p> <p>@ savemejeebus</p> <p>TY for the links, well worth exploring thanks!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915996&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="89Kq91u43hWQv_LZoHwWQQ3jHQ3F9StmM_NM7-bykLU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com">Watchingtheden… (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915996">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915997" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271314107"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I noticed how much Nova shapes the discussion on her posts, very selective in what she will allow through: if it looks like an argument strong enough, then</p> <p>Plus,</p></blockquote> <p>That was a beautiful implicit demonstration of a concept rather than spelling it out. I'm sure I used to know the technical term for it, but it esc</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915997&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BcbG1Id3VtxMJNVNv4pVSJR9dmMsJeTLveQSd15xeQU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915997">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915998" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271317855"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The BBC threaten to present the report fairly accurately, but they deem it necessary to ask everyone's least favourite sports sociologist for comment at the end</p> <p><a href="http://mediaecologies.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/climatgate-the-oxburgh-enquiry-and-the-bbcs-usual-bullshit/">http://mediaecologies.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/climatgate-the-oxburgh-e…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915998&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FwLGnKzP9JWZ6lo0er5pK09hWPoENfpkFBZevcCNj80"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sy (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915998">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915999" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271319352"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>on a somewhat related subject (media insanity around the CRU story):</p> <p>many of you will have seen the horrible Der Spiegel piece by now. </p> <p><a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,687259,00.html">http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,687259,00.html</a></p> <p>the article is 100% based on denialist talking points, right up to the "wine in England" episode. it came out shortly before the first CRU report, so many of their comments on Phil Jones were shown to be completely false within days of the article being published. </p> <p>i was curious and looking forward for reader reactions, because i knew they would be bombarded with critisism for their biased and completely wrong reporting. </p> <p>but Der Spiegel (formerly a left wing paper, that has been moving towards the somewhat right part of the middle over the last decade) managed to shock me more with their choice of reader letters printed, than even the original article did. </p> <p>the paper printed four reader replies, under the title "the truth is in the middle" (the middle between science and insanity?), three of which were not critical of the article, but of climate science. </p> <p>and the first (of course denialist reply) was by <b>the famous swiss specialist on extraterrestrial influences, Erich von Daeniken.</b><br /> (argument: human CO2 did not cause the sea level changes 10000 years ago...)</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken</a></p> <p>Der Spiegel did not ask climate scientists, while writing the article. it focus on reader feedback from the insane.<br /> sad example of the way that the media is handling climate science.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915999&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6V2A6vyP7xiypyivjt0y29NV1ozqdInVXagjK4Qbeos"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sod (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915999">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916000" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271319541"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>fix for the link above: [Erich von Daeniken](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken</a>)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916000&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="upvCML2tb2dn9KJKrclq1L4VogVmJx6EHmC643bY6_Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sod (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916000">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916001" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271320431"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#20 Jeremy C</p> <p>Re the Wegman Report:<br /> No-one's seems to have mentioned this here. John Mashey's excellent and informative assessment sheds much needed light on the Wegman report <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/crescendo-climategate-cacophony">plagiarism fiasco</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916001&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lA90m3q9LZ2Q2-240WbjNIIofyXuwS3hKDc5IO7gXtg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ScaredAmoeba (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916001">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916002" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271321662"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ sod post 79</p> <p>Yep, I've seen that one popping up on denialist sites. Awful article, take this: </p> <p>*Despite the enormous uncertainties, there is agreement on at least one issue: Global warming can no longer be stopped.</p> <p>But would that be as horrific as has been predicted? Does humanity truly face plagues of biblical proportions? Won't a warmer climate also have its benefits? And won't it lead to higher crop yields and more tourism revenues in many places?</p> <p>The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. There will undoubtedly be losers, but there will also be winners. Whether global warming is more likely to be harmful or beneficial depends entirely on the location of the observer.*</p> <p>Yep the losers will be Africa, SE Asia, Australia, Central America... but really, what do those places matter? Not many people live there, do they?</p> <p>They cite Storch extensivley in the article, who was involved in the Soon/Baliunus fracas at Climate Research in 2003.</p> <p>[Soon and Baliunas controversy](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon_and_Balliunas_controversy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon_and_Balliunas_controversy</a>).</p> <p>Says Storch in the article: </p> <p>*Storch, a native of northern Germany and one of the pioneers of climate modeling, recommends a more dispassionate approach. He grew up on the North Sea island of Föhr, where he experienced storm tides at first hand. He learned that humans are tough and adaptable beings.</p> <p>"Fearmongering is the wrong way to go about it," says Storch. "Climate change isn't going to happen overnight. We still have enough time to react."*</p> <p>She'll be right mate, nothing to worry about.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916002&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1-sqnq1U_IPsbhlE93E0bVBjlBkxxaXjgFdPhxBvtS0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com">Watchingtheden… (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916002">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916003" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271322005"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lotharsson post 77</p> <p>Haha, you are very correct. As I was saying th [ends]</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916003&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0uCWcFxDGWGT71FmLoxkXtTVebseWtv06ma3-cggctI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com">Watchingtheden… (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916003">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916004" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271323721"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@sod (and others):</p> <p>I'm hoping, against the facts, that Der Spiegel is actually doing a protracted April 1st joke. Publishing a letter from Erich von Däniken, provingly false claims in their long series on CRU, it's like they are doing an experiment: how easy is it to fool our readers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916004&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BycqfcQKGFQPIfeexK3ECO8taW23sYvLkC7bRtlYigM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916004">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916005" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271328378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: #65 Sou<br /> Thanks... <a href="http://www.carbon-sense.com/">CSC</a> &amp; Viv Forbes are already on some lists I keep... maybe Roberts will get added.</p> <p>re: #81 ScaredAmoeba</p> <p>Thanks for the plug for CCC, and there will be an update in the near future.</p> <p>Keep an eye on Deep Climate ... he's found *even more* (pages and pages) of seeming plagiarism in the social networks text of Wegman, and in a paper that got accepted in 7 days.<br /> All that has opened up a several separate cans of worms.<br /> We owe DC a lot... stay tuned.</p> <p>re: others<br /> Considering reasons for anti-science, people might help me out with a classification exercise.</p> <p>a) Read p.14 of CCC (catalog of reasons, with codes) and p.15 (how those reasons seem to map onto organizations and people).</p> <p>b) Suggest plausible combinations for people, and possibly sequences of who they got there. I.e., some people with multiple reasons may well have accumulated reasons over time, and the ordering might matter.</p> <p>c) See if you find reasons that aren't already listed, or don't seem to map to any of them. I suppose I omitted "insanity" but I will likely continue to omit that one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916005&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Byx8epP0cz9V5u1cpCKXWDTgwviOPgn6uz85CMFXJQs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916005">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916006" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271328711"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Over in that ABC thread, Roberts is very, very sure that the Greenhouse Effect can't be true, because he *knows* that the cold atmosphere cannot possibly have anything to do with warming.</p> <p>Somebody (in Oz) should offer to bet him, with referee being some Oz physics department. jakerman probably deserves the first shot, given the efforts put forth so far, but I think many could profitably get involved.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916006&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="miCSKu9aHnyH0v2StX0fOMyIrv3B1gh3EB6chn7k-ZQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916006">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916007" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271342778"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mapleleaf,</p> <p><i>"Actually, CRU have done work with statisticians-- read Foster et al. (2010)."</i></p> <p>Oxburgh was looking at CRU papers published between 1985 and 2008, so Foster et al is irrelevant.</p> <p>Moreover, are you implying that John Mashey's 'good friend' and all those other 'professors' are wrong in their assessment of the surprising lack of close collaboration with professional statisticians?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916007&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-fnC6FyheijaJ92Ph3UdSM25ge46qGQONnJC62F17lA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916007">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916008" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271342934"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris O'Neill,</p> <p>Yet again you spout about papers using better statistical techniques. </p> <p>Pray tell exactly which papers are they?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916008&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nUZc50Uspxf2WWmiTQBTcZSr2tzAEaMmdtjaZ28GMQU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916008">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916009" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271343720"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews:</p> <blockquote><p>Yet again you spout about papers using better statistical techniques.</p></blockquote> <p>Yet again I have to tell you. <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2008/09/02/0805721105.full.pdf+html">http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2008/09/02/0805721105.full.pdf+html</a> is the latest in a long line of papers showing results using better statistical techniques. It's painfully obvious that you're being deliberately dense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916009&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QUVJA8qzq5tVmVdRUHj4IqeiZA66jSQlym8K4WW4JSM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916009">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916010" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271344088"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re 87,</p> <p>No, Foster is not "irrelevant" to the science. Unless of course you mean to the Oxburgh inquiry. In which case, yes, it was too recent for them to consider.</p> <p>I never suggested the panel's assessment was wrong about the lack of close collaboration with professional statisticians. I am not aware of anyone in the know who would say that is a bad idea. In fact, Jones et al. have started to do that as demonstrated by the Foster et al. paper.</p> <p>Just so you know, McIntyre and McKitrick are not statisticians, never mind a professional ones. Bye, bye ClimateFraudit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916010&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o0Xj-O8rqtVwvhFOADPf4LIQ6f9CUKpSc-BNY6hIX5M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916010">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916011" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271344598"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews, my boy!</p> <p>Wonderful piece of insinuation with your wording in @ 87! You made it work well by not quoting the full context of the point number 2 in the Conclusions of the report. </p> <p>Now Davie.... tell the truth.... What was their assessment in point 2 of the Conclusions. Yes they were surprised that the CRU hadn't collaborated more. Not an assessment, rather a comment. As I said a beautiful bit of twisting of what was actually written down.</p> <p>Dave my boy, isn't it a bit smarter to make sure ordinary people like me don't have access to what you are trying to twist and so smear people because we can see straight through it in...let me see.... 30 secs... Nope!....20 secs.... Nope! less than 10 seconds, yes! Don't you know this sort of twisting in @ 87 really upsets poor, battling Jo Nova.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916011&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jJyFJKgLEZWKgTC7XyypMu1vqNoplL10tFN8tWkaDkQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916011">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916012" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271349472"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I find the unsurprising latching onto the statisticians comment by the denialists rather comical for two reasons:</p> <p>Firstly, they're really having to scrape the barrel in having to dwell on that to try to save face; Phil Jones and CRU didn't mislead, climate science still works, but their statistical techniques have room for improvement. Well whoopee-fucking-doo.</p> <p>Secondly, and on a more serious note, they completely miss the point. Science in general has been moving at a very rapid pace in recent history and the traditional fields, such as physics, chemistry, biology and applied maths have been struggling to keep up in isolation. Many of the big advances of late have necessitated a more cross-disciplinary approach and climate science is no exception. The current academic systems are still in the process of adapting and the point they raise in the report is actually a fairly common theme in modern science; that two fields should be talking to each other more than they currently are.</p> <p>But it does NOT mean that a particular field or group have been doing it wrong. It just means that they could be doing it better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916012&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-SdwNZnkvNzmmQgBeLwnwMrkMtBWE-tNournfadQfjg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JamesA (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916012">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916013" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271351132"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If El Gordo and Chris Oneill want to know about the real conspiracy, the one that is factually based with tons of evidence and five books detailing it, then I suggest they read "Climate Cover-Up" by James Hoggan, Unlike the paranoid delusional, imaginatively creative and completely absurd conspiracy theories of the deniers, this one is a no brainer.<br /> So since you're such conspiracy freaks, go for it. As long as your focused on conspiracy theories, you might as well have the real thing.</p> <p>Funny how neither one have anything intelligent to add to the conversation, but you're good at repeating memorized talking points that you learned from liars like Watts, Monckton, Milloy, McIntyre and the rest.</p> <p>Trolls trolls and more trolls. You are proving the point of those commenters who wonder if any evidence will ever convince you. Probably not a chance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916013&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yHjReqwsOBp6129-Efp1OYTEp0oelt6Hb-geCHf4BJA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://energysolutionswecanbelievein.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">frflyer (not verified)</a> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916013">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916014" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271351761"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Freddy Singer thinks it's a whitewash and I happen to agree with him.</p> <p>And you imagine that Fred Singer is a reliable source? You must be kidding.<br /> Fred Singer has not had a peer reviewed paper published in 20 years. He is linked to the fossil fuel industry and was once a hired gun for the tobacco industry to give "expert" testimony that cigarette smoke is not bad for you.<br /> Don't get me wrong. He was once a good scientist, till he sold out to tobacco, chemical and fossil fuel interests.</p> <p>Fred Singer, paid by Philip Morris to testify to cigarette smoke's safety?<br /> Oh, did I tell you that Singer also disputes that CFCs deplete the ozone layer? The effect of CFCs on the ozone layer is a well established scientific fact. Since the use of CFCs was limited by the Montreal Protocol, the hole in the ozone has diminished substantially.</p> <p>Singer even uses skeptic arguments that are so wrong that serious scientists don't even respond to such nonsense anymore. I'm referring to statements from Singer like:</p> <p>"Both greenhouse theory and computer models predict that global warming should be more rapid in the polar regions than anywhere else, but in July the Antarctic experienced the coldest weather on record."</p> <p>This is the dumbest of arguments, the type repeated by the least knowledgeable "me too" skeptics. For a climate scientist like Singer to point to one month in one location as proof against global long term climate change, is to emulate the least informed and most credulous of warming skeptics. </p> <p>The other reason he is off base is that the IPCC actually predicted less warming in Antartica than in the Arctic. This is a common tactic of deniers, claiming the IPCC made predictions that they didn't make.</p> <p>Singer clung to his claim that CFCs weren't harming the ozone layer in the atmosphere, even after the scientific evidence became unassailable, and a Noble prize was awarded to three scienists who dug up the evidence, and even after CFCs were banned and the ozone layer hole mostly closed up as a result. He is funded by Exxon, Unocal, Shell, Atlantic Richfield, Sun Oil and the Reverand Sun Myung Moon.</p> <p>Now there is an unbiased scientist. Put that in your conspiracy theory pipe and smoke it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916014&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eeBSJ7YDKPmlqtOJbHrZNMEf48lN13I1Lqd34ceTNQA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://energysolutionswecanbelievein.blogspot.com/2008/11/climate-change-and-disinformation.html" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">frflyer (not verified)</a> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916014">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916015" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271351784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I find it ironic that with all the calls for statisticians to be involved that the only statistician who has been involved on an invited basis has been shown to be a disgrace to the statistical borherhood (see his signature on the deniers' letter to the Bali Conference). </p> <p>I am of course referring to Wegman. A full exposure of his misdeeds can be found at:</p> <p><a href="http://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/wegman-social-networks1.pdf">http://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/wegman-social-networks1…</a></p> <p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2009/12/22/wegman-and-rapp-on-tree-rings-a-divergence-problem-part-1/">http://deepclimate.org/2009/12/22/wegman-and-rapp-on-tree-rings-a-diver…</a></p> <p>and other threads.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916015&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Yv6YVv4S4hfKlswfEJpmCCzzCD3LYMr7kDz3pABSjXQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ian Forrester (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916015">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916016" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271352015"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>oops that should be "statistical brotherhood"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916016&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="87eCQgeAXVJZ-RSZkD5oOOXMm4MbQ68h4R-gqheOhkA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ian Forrester (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916016">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916017" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271359038"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: #95 Ian</p> <p>But, see <a href="http://deepclimate.org/2010/02/08/steve-mcintyre-and-ross-mckitrick-part-2-barton-wegman/#comment-3291">social networks</a>, which links to the one you mentioned, but also the later article.<br /> There appears to be much more material than in DC's earlier post.<br /> I own both of the books mentioned, and the words that DC says are there, are there. Anyone can examine the side-by-side comparisons and decide if there is plagiarism or not.</p> <p>I'd expect DC to soon have an article to tie this together ... as it just opened several more cans of worms, alluded to in the thread mentioned above.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916017&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z-ADVkA2a88td5UY56VVUJEF94kT5Qk3ySAhUtC_NcM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916017">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916018" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271359422"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Did the Oxburgh enquiry/panel say that the statistical methods used in any of the 12 papers were inappropriate for the problems? Or were appropriate but applied incorrectly? Nope...and...nope.<br /> The panelists simply noted the (surprising to them) fact that the climate scientists hadn't consulted with statisticians more widely, or at least formally enough for statisticians to be co-authors.</p> <p>My experience in working with both scientists and statisticians is that this is a common complaint made by statisticians, namely that they aren't used more in fields where they might contribute effectively. Perhaps this might be addressed in part by universities providing some better encouragement for such collaborative endeavours; perhaps statisticians need some assistance in making contact with members of other faculties who could benefit from statistical expertise. Or, perhaps other faculties could consider paying a part-time or fulltime placement of a statistician with the expertise most appropriate to their kind of work. Certainly Australian statistics departments need the cash, what with the decimation of many of these departments.</p> <p>In any case, my experience is that scientists from other fields tend to learn the statistics on the job, and quite naturally the more mathematically trained scientists tend to do that more enthusiastically. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is good to at least discuss with academic statisticians who may be familiar with more recent and refined techniques that can "make the data go further" in answering research questions.</p> <p>Now, when is the next of the (countably infinite number of) enquiries due to report (the same thing as the others)?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916018&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zx8BXSkPVNRfjUpbTG3XTrRY6Zx4MmpQyFTqnuB8OoM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Donald Oats (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916018">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916019" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271359465"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Note: re Wegman</p> <p>Just to be really, really clear, the last thing we need is a manufactured fight between statisticians as a group and climate scientists, most of whom seem to get along just fine.</p> <p>In general, the observed actions are somewhat mystifying and I do *not* think they are representative of the statistics profession.</p> <p>I have an essay on statistics and statisticians, p.172 of <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/crescendo-climategate-cacophony">CCC</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916019&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RTXcmalyfyau8-7LSkeMsEDDFA5g8CIFmQn7biswgbQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916019">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916020" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271361874"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: #98 Donald</p> <p>This is structurally harder than one might think in many places.<br /> See that 1-page essay I mentioned in #99, especially:</p> <p>"I have long heard complaints from statisticians about not getting consulted enough. In fact, that is often a legitimate complaint... However, most places, especially universities, lack enough statisticians to spend much time in long domain-specific joint nalyses, although many statistics departments admirably provide some outreach and statistical support for others.<br /> Academic statisticians often publish in statistics journals, not unfamiliar ones where paleoclimate reconstructions might appear. Universities rarely insist on multiple-department internal review before allowing submission of a paper externally. Even if they did, nobody has the time to do that often."</p> <p>Part of the problem for co-authorship is that a stats prof:</p> <p>a) Needs to get familiar with the application field, at least somewhat, which takes time.</p> <p>b) Ends up publishing in some "weird" (to statisticians) journal about the application of known statistics, rather than publishing some new result *about* statistics in a well-known stats journal.</p> <p>That is not a recipe to cause a massive inrush of faculty...</p> <p>I think there are ways around this, but they aren't easy. I was somewhat surprised to find that in some *very* good schools, of grad students taking advanced computer architecture (using Hennessy&amp;Patterson), only about half had ever had a stats course. (That's what the lecture surveys said.) Although a different field, the reasons are relevant. Many stats courses (especially introductory ones) seem more geared to the social sciences and sometimes don't fit other areas so well. Students then either avoid them if possible, or sometimes departments end up teaching their own stats courses tuned to their own needs. </p> <p>My sample is limited, but I would not be surprised if this effect appeared often. Of course, to some extent, if I had anything to do with it, I'd love to see crucial probability and statistics taught more widely in high school, even at the expense of some other math.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916020&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NasutHoF65xQq0ZzqFPFvKmpFvh1ntLzuR91XidWjLc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916020">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916021" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271364252"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re #100 John Mashey,</p> <p>I agree that isn't easy to unite statistics researchers and other scientists - not least because of the work in acquiring the background knowledge to be useful to the scientists. But, on any long term program of research the time taken for a statistician or two to get up to speed on the subject matter is surely not the most significant factor. Research statisticians do need to take some initiative here and turn up at seminars, workshops etc in scientific areas of interest to themselves, and see if they have an avenue for contributing. And plenty do, of course.</p> <p>In Australia the CSIRO (Commonwealth Science and Industry Research Organisation) have statisticians intimately involved in plant and human genomics, disease detection, finance, quantitative risk analysis, a range of medical areas and preventative health measures, ecology and wild-stock management, water, aviation, hyperspectral satellite data analysis, the list goes on. So it is certainly possible to connect up statisticians and other disciplines, but as you allude to John, there are often structural reasons making it difficult to join the dots in many institutions and universities.</p> <p>When it comes to publishing scientific work with a strong statistical contribution from a statistician, I don't really see the choice of journal as being a substantive difficulty, or at least it shouldn't be. The emphasis should determine the choice, and there is certainly no reason for limiting it to one class of journal or the other. Some stats journals do look at applications rather than new mathematical results or algorithms.</p> <p>As for teaching some statistics at earlier years, I have seen the video where the idea floated is to jettison calculus and replace it with statistics. I wouldn't be too happy if that was the case, as calculus is truly foundational. Furthermore, in Australia at least, high school students can unfortunately avoid much of mathematics at senior level. At the entrance level to university however, I think every student involved in any science discipline really needs a formal grounding in statistics, and that I do support wholeheartedly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916021&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Az-NvvxwYt-gPHTzS62cB0WE51jymmCxLVBCfHRqMxM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Donald Oats (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916021">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916022" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271365274"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What's with all the intelligent, reasoned, politely expressed comments? Something weird is going on here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916022&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="21qkbJP7IdCsEIfYN86SX4eGVBZcqn_cd0OSwpXBk84"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gaz (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916022">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916023" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271366727"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: #101 Donald<br /> Yes, mostly.<br /> Entities like CSIRO have less of an issue with this than universities, for the same reason as Bell Labs did. I think teh realistic issue is that few people learn a science area to help out on 1-2 papers, because the investment is large.</p> <p>Regarding choice of journals, I'd agree that it shouldn't make a difference, but I've heard this complaint a few times in different places. I don't know how prevalent it is and of course universities vary greatly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916023&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vb79_eqZ6lzydwpuhodmvnq1fFY5vQK2_WZqN2DkXyg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916023">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916024" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271370016"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>frflyer:</p> <blockquote><p> If El Gordo and Chris Oneill want to know about the real conspiracy,</p></blockquote> <p>Looks like my <a href="http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law">poe</a> is working.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916024&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lmVSWFepF0i2DKsunBHWv5R9DrtEoFCSIJ3BIceELiQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916024">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916025" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271371058"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gaz, have you been spending time at Ms Nova's thread at The Drum or some other choice venues? ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916025&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p4v_K26pLAS28P5T7-mh4EEcg5eW_vHYQj5VEf8uBx8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916025">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916026" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271372753"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt;*jakerman: You appear to have given up your noble efforts vs Malcom Roberts over at ABC, in the "Whinge" thread. that is wise, as Roberts*</p> <p>John, I'm now back on [that job](<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2861936.htm">http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2861936.htm</a>), and pinning Malcolm down again. Obiviously his Gish Gallop has worked for him in the past, as he clings to it in an almost pathalogical fashion. </p> <p>So it's a matter of continually bring him back to the orginal contention rather than following his attempts to lead me away.</p> <p>He's a very intereting case study. Deeply DK affected and willing to play Gish all day long. When delusions run so deep I'm left guessing wheather its just ideology or some MH issue or a combination.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916026&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XqZad11uxha5rjmtfZxLX9woKoM7a0oHHTHw2j7agKE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916026">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916027" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271373347"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mikeh @67, Cheers, I've give it a go.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916027&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L7cKIL2pxAfu5PLum5MqZr6WiTD6H4w4Fbc81s8H1hQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916027">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916028" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271374294"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Gaz, have you been spending time at Ms Nova's thread at The Drum or some other choice venues? ;-) </p></blockquote> <p>I believe I've made my own modest contribution there, yes, and on McLean's and Lewandowsky's threads there too, but I see your point. The tin-foil hatters are spread a bit thin, aren't they?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916028&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mmC0kdBYHVDljJXI4PK0p6nNSEmOTCpE0EvZ9MTgqT0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gaz (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916028">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916029" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271379314"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>jakerman:<br /> If you can stand an entire D-K organization, you may want to visit <a href="http://www.carbon-sense.com/">Carbon Sense Coalition</a>, plug Roberts into the Search box, and peruse some of his past writings, adn look at the PDF under "About".</p> <p>He seems to be located:<br /> Malcolm Roberts<br /> Pullenvale QLD Australia</p> <p>which looks about 12km from UQ.<br /> Maybe he could go over there and educate their physics dept?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916029&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="16NjbzzqmkhVW_zCN6924lUeRL52Nbe6wskUhOW18Oc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916029">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916030" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271389018"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Tim, I am not sure that the 'charging' for data sets is totally correct. It is the one part of the report that contradicts my own experience. It depends what data sets the panel refers to.</p> <p>I know for a fact that much of the tidal gauge data is largely free, you are only charged for the latest 3 months of tidal gauge data. It does mean that if you need the latest data then you have to pay, but given the noise in the data, I doubt if 3 months would be much use for climate change research!</p> <p>However what you do have to do for British Oceanographic Data Centre, is register your interests and why you want to use it.<br /> Ironically the registering process is for the government to justify funding the collecting of the data. The information form used in the registering process is to determine how the data is used by clients.</p> <p>British Oceanographic Data Centre:<br /><a href="https://www.bodc.ac.uk/">https://www.bodc.ac.uk/</a></p> <p>I had a quick look at the Argo floats section as well and it looks like that is free as well as long as you have registered.</p> <p>Maybe if you wanted the unprocessed data then you would have to pay for that??</p> <p>The issue maybe different for other data sets, I haven't looked.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916030&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mvAnSCsG5tZpFDD1tliyBRL1b7v4fZLBPNG7OMwjRQM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul UK (not verified)</span> on 15 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916030">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916031" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271404008"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Speaking of Ms Nova's merry gang of swashbuckling adventurers in the noble arts of scientific debate, one curious facet of their behaviour seems to me that some of them emulate the form and language of scientific arguments without delivering on the substance or understanding.</p> <p>Or (very roughly) they have the syntax of the argument without the semantics to back it up.</p> <p>Ms Nova may play a key role here, at least for our home-grown practitioners. Her website appears at first glance to espouse some quite decent scientific principles. Not sure I remember these correctly, but things like: follow the evidence, ad hominem is not a valid scientific argument, scientific authority doesn't count - only the logic and evidence do, think for yourself, avoid groupthink and confirmation bias, consensus doesn't *prove* correctness, and so on. Some of these are stated only to apply them without the necessary corollaries (e.g. consensus doesn't prove correctness, but correctness generally *leads to* consensus). However, disregarding the cherrypicking of principles, she subverts even her stated principles in many of her own arguments, often desperately projecting violations of these principles onto her opponents at the same time.</p> <p>Graeme Bird is probably the king of this phenomenon, but he's a special case.</p> <p>It's like someone <em>parroting</em> the form of an argument that they've seen successfully used in the past, without understanding that the form wasn't the key to its success. (Cargo Cult argumentation?)</p> <p>Anyone have any other insight into how this sort of behaviour develops, other than perhaps straightforward Dunning-Kruger?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916031&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1VOcnLJBkP-OWMWMgwnVtdv7cyxYfh3QX5eAxhrEydU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 16 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916031">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916032" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271423303"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re JamesA post #1, the Telegraph has come up with more controversial nonsense - this time an actual editorial:-</p> <p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/7591286/Climate-change-always-room-for-doubt.html?state=target">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/7591286/Climate-chang…</a></p> <p>As usual, the reply posts are infested with denialist nutters using all the old same debunked arguments.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916032&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S2owQU7q40IglrGfY2g8m3nUjyX1nVbh_WrEuOq_dGU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Clippo (not verified)</span> on 16 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916032">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916033" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271428013"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeremy C,</p> <p>So if point 2 of their conclusions is is not an assessment but a comment, as you claim, what are we to make of point 1 about no evidence of deliberate scientific malpractice?</p> <p>Perhaps they shouldn't have bothered to come to any conclusions at all.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916033&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hsGMsUnltCUMSggedvxqzQMkaBeDORp5Gpqn2vvXMgA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 16 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916033">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916034" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271429959"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter Dave Andrews:</p> <p>The Oxburgh review states that climate scientists should have worked more closely with statisticians! Therefore, we should ignore everything else that the Oxburgh review says!</p> <p>Then again, if we disregard that particular statement, it also means we should ignore everything else that the Oxburgh review says!</p> <p>Therefore, global warming is a hoax! Feel my logic!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916034&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CTCOIMtohiBzC2UVCBFxNnAbrXMzAGv4qctdk-mZyA4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 16 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916034">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916035" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271430937"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave @ 113</p> <p>"Jeremy C,</p> <p>So if point 2 of their conclusions is is not an assessment but a comment, as you claim,"</p> <p>Its not a claim on my part, its english comprehension.</p> <p>"Perhaps they shouldn't have bothered to come to any conclusions at all."</p> <p>If we look at it from your point of view i.e. the report didn't go the way you wanted and you're attempt at spinning falls well short of that master showman Monckton....then obviously yes.</p> <p>I'm sorry for you Dave, your heart must be heavy tonight.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916035&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nU8521W6opFDmtxyD4Nyetw1ZWwwe0Jo6QVdYdVp2CQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 16 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916035">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916036" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271455189"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ post 102</p> <p>Re quality of posts - indeed, this is impressive. Logic? Reason, respect? What is happening on the interwebz!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916036&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HrZVtZ-gEu3XBkq29A_qyebjJUANQpMF0N3gJjdFa2k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com">Watchingtheden… (not verified)</span> on 16 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916036">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916037" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271513159"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>stepanovich,</p> <p>If you read my posts I think I only said that if you take account of Oxburgh you also have to take account of the criticism in the second of their conclusions.</p> <p>To reiterate this was that, in an area that so heavily depends on statistical methods, it is surprising that climate scientists have not collaborated more closely with professional statisticians.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916037&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0jL92Pd7IYuBksBxobS3M_YGomBkBRo2g4Lk2PPkgU0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916037">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916038" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271513693"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeremy C,</p> <p><i>"Its not a claim on my part, its english comprehension."</i></p> <p>Right, so you are in effect saying that Oxburgh should have stopped his conclusions after point 1 as the other three conclusions are only comments.</p> <p>But hang on a minute, there is a lot in conclusion 1 that you could interpret as comment. </p> <p>So perhaps he shouldn't have come to any conclusions at all.</p> <p>Get real!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916038&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ho1Qp8S9hWrA3q-5dXNMdv3hktT786JfhzMD9oMmMhQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916038">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916039" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271520376"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave </p> <p>Just as I said before, its english comprehension, simply that. That you are still trying to twist stuff I wrote demonstrates that you know exactly what the report is saying and can't bring yourself to accept and admit it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916039&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AO5DnVaZkRm3hsFH3RzhxJvjtld0s47uFrFrXQ8uW1o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916039">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916040" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271530891"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The denialosphere have been making much of a UK journoâs <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7589897/Hockey-stick-graph-was-exaggerated.html">assertions.</a></p> <blockquote><p>Prof Hand praised the blogger Steve McIntyre of Climate Audit for uncovering the fact that inappropriate methods were used which could produce misleading results.</p></blockquote> <p>Has anyone, I really mean <b>anyone</b>, seen a primary source where Professor Hand has actually been quoted verbatim as praising Steve MuckIntyre? Unless we can find this I would be more inclined to view this denialassertion as another example their spin, twist and distortion strategy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916040&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GZrmKd4jJY-PPQucHgX2hem9UFSIGe916qwdN07-D_w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">davidk (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916040">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916041" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271531883"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@120. Of course in addition to that, the same article makes clear that it is a "hockey stick" all the same, and that it would make no difference to the HADCRU temperature analysis.</p> <p>But would sceptics read past the title and the first paragraph?</p> <p>Extremely unlikely. Their attention span is simply not that long when they see a headline stating "hockey stick was exaggerated".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916041&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x8vE_CcEHfR1SMqnjGynKaWPQPq7wC1QQ03Yf6v9fd4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916041">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916042" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271541106"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter Dave Andrews:</p> <p>I'm only saying that we should pay attention to everything the Oxburgh report says. For example, the report says there was no deliberate scientific malpractice LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING I'M NOT LISTENING I'M NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!!!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916042&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TgTVVzYQ9CwA79-AnFbUQGeCBJya71EabRxRASTWFIk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916042">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916043" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271545191"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@121: <i>Has anyone, I really mean anyone, seen a primary source where Professor Hand has actually been quoted verbatim as praising Steve MuckIntyre?</i></p> <p>Surprisingly, no ;-)</p> <p>Even McI seems to want to distance himself from that line in the Tele article...<br /></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916043&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hCQpdvnZxeFFzHNtAxm0FoKvI5B1plPoxIVXLN3CvIM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SteveC (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916043">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916044" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271547648"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Even McI seems to want to distance himself from that line in the Tele article...</p></blockquote> <p>I'm not so sure about that SteveC. McIntyre certainly didn't want to distance himself from any of the hockey-stick guff he was complicit in generating.</p> <p>Keith Briffa explained McIntyre's groupthink very well in<br /><a href="http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/yamal2009/">this</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916044&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hm32MMhLm1RtSCsJrOHc8U_WwnSUkUwXE3WpZyQfdoY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">davidk (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916044">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916045" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271549718"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@124, mayhap you're right, I based my comment on McI's "Stranger and stranger" response on his bog blag bludge <i>bloge</i>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916045&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6ExuWdW7cLrRZQ9MCLERA7qbQfjtXOsXE9YctIPLMhU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SteveC (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916045">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916046" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271563002"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Prof Hand praised the blogger Steve McIntyre of Climate Audit for uncovering the fact that inappropriate methods were used which could produce misleading results.</p></blockquote> <p>I think this came up on Ms Nova's latest thread at The Drum as a way of determinedly ignoring the corrected hockey stick, and all the subsequent hockey sticks. Amusing for a few seconds if you find that sort of behaviour droll, but gets old rather quickly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916046&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r7h583SZs--AOD3pvJ0mCxXzuDshVTbImNkSrV6Y6Oc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 17 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916046">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916047" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271600301"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>stepanovich,</p> <p>I agree the report said it saw no evidence of scientific malpractice. It also said that it was 'very surprising' that they didn't collaborate more closely with professional statisticians.</p> <p>Why do you, and others, seem unable to accept the latter?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916047&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m9wGw2VTZMrAKyoDv2dOT9JRNKYzlkSTX-5OquC9RwU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 18 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916047">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916048" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271603099"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>UEA response:</p> <blockquote><p>The Report points out where things might have been done better. One is to engage more with professional statisticians in the analysis of data. Another, related, point is that more efficacious statistical techniques might have been employed in some instances (although it was pointed out that different methods may not have produced different results). Specialists in many areas of research acquire and develop the statistical skills pertinent to their own particular data analysis requirements. However, we do see the sense in engaging more fully with the wider statistics community to ensure that the most effective and up-to-date statistical techniques are adopted and will now consider further how best to achieve this.<br /></p><blockquote> <p>In other words, things were going fine as they were, but things can always be improved. Unless the results are shown to be significantly incorrect, there is no controversy about CRU's methods.</p></blockquote> </blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916048&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ectqpu7vEXopa74zfPofZ5hJH0AHtcOMnpVg56t8n8w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 18 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916048">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916049" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271603971"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Said:</p> <blockquote><p> It also said that it was 'very surprising' that they didn't collaborate more closely with professional statisticians.</p></blockquote> <p>I find the serious seismic activity reported in the first 4 months of this year 'very surprising' but unless I am going somehwere with it, it's not all that relevant.</p> <p>One can be very surprised for all sorts of reasons, including being ignorant of the etiology of the surprise. </p> <p>One can therefore accept their substantial surprise without drawing any particular inference from it. Had they wanted us to draw one, they'd surely have developed the thought.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916049&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YC6pkdTQTZ2VsUOwuwt2k2Mhyqa2PDfTPVhGkav2-fo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 18 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916049">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916050" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271604701"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave my boy.</p> <p>Your post to Stepanovich @ 127. You still seem to be stuck on the word "surprising" without seeming to structure your comments/thinking by taking the whole sentence, paragraph and context into account. I can see why you do this because it allows you to put any meaning you, Dave Andrews, want onto that one word. When reading it the whole sentence then the paragraph you can see this as something the committee may have learned and that they are suggesting that the CRU could benefit from making extra use of statistical techniques and practitioners.</p> <p>But Dave, don't you realise that sensible people just think you have your own agenda and that such an agenda is dishonest driven by a great and heart rending realisation that Climategate has turned into an exercise for denialists of shooting themselves in the foot in view of the whole world. because of Climategate no longer will the Monckton's in the front row and people like yourself in the 5th, nay, 12th row be able to hobble discussing the science because each time you begin to open your mouth to bring up denialist talking points your going to have ordinary members of the public like me shouting out, "what about Climategate you denialists". And at that everyone listening, politician, journalist, member of the public will realise that once again the denialists are trying to put one over.</p> <p>I bet you weep into your pillow at night at where Climategate has gone (and of course where it was always going to go) and I bet you feel you could strangle those guys that hacked and then selected the CRU emails.......</p> <p>Its no wonder your posts have such an angry tone.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916050&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1iXFDJNIOWQP-GHDAlen1ELZxeYcXiM4hknYK1hChHU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 18 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916050">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916051" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271689425"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeremy C,</p> <p>You are just putting words into your own mouth.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916051&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f6q5HIY0qpCc557lbjtq4YIuDJl146j8w1DIeNVR22o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 19 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916051">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916052" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271771821"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is interesting, the panel has issued an addendum:</p> <p>"Addendum to report, 19 April 2010</p> <p>For the avoidance of misunderstanding in the light of various press stories, it is important to be clear that the neither the panel report nor the press briefing intended to<br /> imply that any research group in the field of climate change had been deliberately misleading in any of their analyses or intentionally exaggerated their findings.<br /> Rather, the aim was to draw attention to the complexity of statistics in this field, and the need to use the best possible methods."</p> <p>Presumably this is to counter the allegation made in the Daily Telegraph that David Hand agreed Mann's Hockey Stick graph was exaggerated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916052&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dPakcLSzpcTwR46jq84EVGftAg06IQsjicQ7_F1yrNc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lord_sidcup (not verified)</span> on 20 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916052">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916053" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1271860238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris O'Neill, #89</p> <p>Ah the pnas paper again.</p> <p>Unfortunately it seems that Mann used 119 oak chronologies in that paper including three from Michael Baillie of Queens University, Belfast.</p> <p>The latter, of course has just been ordered by a judge to release his data to Doug Keenan.</p> <p>Baillie is quoted by the Guardian as saying;-</p> <p><b>"Keenan is the only person in the world claiming that our oak-ring patterns are temperature records,"</b></p> <p>Meanwhile another British dendro, Rob Wilson has opined in the Times that,</p> <p><b>" oaks were virtually useless as a temperature proxy"</b></p> <p>But, hey, Mann used them just like he used BCPs because it made his graphs look nicer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916053&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3Tmuu2eOrJS3u-LI7nQY0exofqWnU_SWcC4aEUFEm3E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 21 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916053">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916054" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272036743"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If the proponents of AGW are so clever, why can't they get any predictions right?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916054&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l9IN39MjZ7Bxa4Rx3R-VshreJbkKLSQ6K9n3vh-syCE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Barbagallo (not verified)</span> on 23 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916054">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916055" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272278906"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"If the proponents of AGW are so clever, why can't they get any predictions right?"</p> <p>They do.<br /><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm">http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm</a></p> <p>Why do denialists keep bringing up claims that are clearly untrue, if they are so "clever"?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916055&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G4axxc1J6fhA2kuZQuHPKNJzI5h8B58bmCXvcVBbmxs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 26 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916055">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916056" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272433161"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Re 134</p> <p>"Models do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields, farms and forests. They are full of fudge factors so the models more or less agree with the observed data. But there is no reason to believe the same fudge factors would give the right behaviour in a world with different chemistry, for example in a world with increased CO2." (Freeman Dyson)"</p> <p> Dave said;<br /> "why can't they get any predictions right?"</p> <p>, Jones (aka CRU), NOAA and NASA collude with their proxy temperature reconstructs to maintain their funding, and then they call it 'peer reviewed' (should be called 'piss reviewed' because they can not reproduce it to be reviewed by any other third parties). </p> <p>Anyway,if they cant get the measurements right how can they get any predictions right?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916056&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eaNx8ZaNUZTYaYCwIDtMxvfotcs5_PVvXBI5ZIxoEVs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916056">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916057" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272433713"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For all the (so far unsupported) claims of improper measurement made against Phil Jones, its is worth noting that satellite measurements from the lower troposphere over the last 30 years show a [similar rate of warming](<a href="http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/mean:12/plot/rss/mean:12/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1979/trend/plot/rss/trend">http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/mean:12/plot/rss/mean:12/p…</a>) as the HadCURT.</p> <p>Says a lot!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916057&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j7-RmI_5tYEkYabMJ7SqRP845nhOsJw4R-P9ROr34yI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916057">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916058" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272435204"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>jakerman how come your satellite graph looks like a 'hockey stick' and the UAH one from Roy (a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies) seems to flat line?</p> <p><a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/04/march-2010-uah-global-temperature-update-0-65-deg-c/">http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/04/march-2010-uah-global-temperature-u…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916058&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_UDsjdJkfkqHrNxdFMK9ef1B9cOHguX9tbmuFOqd7AE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916058">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916059" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272436780"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You ARE joking, right?<br /> Have you looked at the time scales of the two graphs? I mean who can come up with such an inane question?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916059&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HByRFH3Lttr7tqgQC_b5XRDDbhvv9ll3UO69AOIkgrA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MFS (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916059">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916060" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272436971"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Spencer's data looks [flat line](<a href="http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/mean:12/plot/uah/mean:12/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1979/trend/plot/uah/trend">http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/mean:12/plot/uah/mean:12/p…</a>) to you because you are not looking at the shaft of the hockey stick. In the context of historical records even [Spencer's error prone algorithms](<a href="http://mustelid.blogspot.com/2005/06/first-look-at-scs-msu-vn52.html">http://mustelid.blogspot.com/2005/06/first-look-at-scs-msu-vn52.html</a>) produce a hockey stick blade.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916060&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uz4MHw8b4mIQCRqf5S5vdLZFVigXhzY3JnIvYKF9jHc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916060">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916061" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272438074"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Anyway,if they cant get the measurements right...</p></blockquote> <p>You'll be publishing your paper on how they get their measurements wrong then? Like <a href="http://tamino.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/dropouts/">Watts and D'Aleo</a> ... oh, wait, <a href="http://tamino.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/message-to-anthony-watts/">maybe not like that</a>? </p> <p>Maybe instead you can simply post here on how you determined that they can't get the measurements right instead, preferably not using <a href="http://tamino.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/false-claims-proven-false/">an argument that has been comprehensively debunked already</a> (which includes practically everything Watts and D'Aleo and some of their fellow "skeptics" claim about temperature records)?</p> <blockquote><p>...because they can not reproduce it to be reviewed by any other third parties). </p></blockquote> <p>Really?</p> <p>IIRC half a dozen independent groups have now independently created their own versions of one of the temperature records using some of the raw data that is freely available. This set of groups includes some who consider themselves "skeptics". Their version of the records are in close agreement with the published version.</p> <p>RealClimate have a webpage with <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/data-sources/">links to raw data, processed data and climate model code</a>. Go <b>create your own</b> based on the raw dataset of your choice and compare it against the processed data that you falsely claim "can not reproduce it to be reviewed by any other third parties)." Heck, if you really want to play at science you can write a journal paper on how you created your record and how you did the comparison with other published records and let others review your work.</p> <p>Bet you don't. Odds are you can't even substantiate your claims on a blog like this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916061&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1UWHsw9FM5F4mqQAFf91mabDhHO-wT70wHq1lipmAMo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916061">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916062" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272476050"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Heck, if you really want to play at science you can write a journal paper on how you created your record "</p> <p>No, unlike your mates, I am not looking for a grant to 'create a record', I do not need to put my snout in the public trough to derive my income.</p> <p>All the AGW temperature record data is a proxy reconstruct that can be manipulated to say anything, you can 'believe it' if you want, but it is not verified by the scientific method.</p> <p>"Maybe instead you can simply post here on how you determined that they can't get the measurements right instead"</p> <p><a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/03/direct-evidence-that-most-u-s-warming-since-1973-could-be-spurious/">http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/03/direct-evidence-that-most-u-s-warmi…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916062&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KGCQDwk_brZoFcqT4pNdyRI7Qpxm0ctV5H7FN6x16uM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916062">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916063" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272485084"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>No, unlike your mates, I am not looking for a grant to 'create a record', I do not need to put my snout in the public trough to derive my income.</p></blockquote> <p>That's a great way to avoid the question. How do you know the measurements of temperature <b>trends</b> are uncertain enough to invalidate any research using them? How much uncertainty is too much?</p> <p>And you've failed to address the point that several other groups have created their own temperature records from raw data, thereby addressing your false claim that "they can not reproduce it to be reviewed by any other third parties". I guess it's too much to hope for that you acknowledge your claim was not entirely founded in reality.</p> <p>As to your latest comment, once more your assumption does not match reality. (I have no "mates" who are scientists let alone looking for a grant. Furthermore I am not a scientist either, nor am I paid out of the "public trough" - as if public funding somehow sullies the work or the motives of the workers!) </p> <p>Given your track record, <b>maybe you have other assumptions in this area that don't match reality either?</b></p> <p>Re: <a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/03/direct-evidence-that-most-u-s-warming-since-1973-could-be-spurious/">http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/03/direct-evidence-that-most-u-s-warmi…</a></p> <p>If you blindly believe Roy Spencer's blog posts - especially in areas where there is a reasonable amount of peer-reviewed literature, then more fool you. Especially seeing as:</p> <p>1) Spencer compares apples and oranges without even the slightest consideration of whether the comparison is valid! No wonder he isn't trying to publish this "work" in a journal. (I'll leave that as an exercise for you to figure out to see if you're half as capable as you think you are. If you post an identification of the issue here you'll instantly gain more credibility than 99% of "skeptics". But I wouldn't put money on it.)</p> <p>2) He's not known for reliably reaching correct and accurate conclusions all on his own - there are several examples from the past, including his apparent complete disinterest in investigating concerns about his own UAH temperature record over a period of several years, presumably because the errors created a cooling bias that suited the PR machine he was helping to feed. They were only ultimately corrected because other people dragged him into it.</p> <p>3) Spencer does not address the literature on the UHI, making no attempt to understand how others have attacked the problem or to show why they are wrong and he is right.</p> <p>4) Spencer himself half-heartedly warns readers off, but those who link to his post never seem to comprehend that bit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916063&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LvmZ-nbxesllOaNEF0m8SghVO5QaNr7QUfiCKIUlAHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916063">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-916064" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1272485710"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Geek Basher,</p> <p>Why do you believe Roy Spencer? Isn't he putting his *"snout in the public trough to derive his income?"*</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=916064&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tuBmpv-ojX5iXHzBdT8DhuTJJnVMRkLrfFNusZx9dEE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 28 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-916064">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/deltoid/2010/04/14/phil-jones-vindicated-some-mor%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:04:02 +0000 tlambert 16763 at https://scienceblogs.com Lots of smoke, no fire https://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/04/lots-of-smoke-no-fire <span>Lots of smoke, no fire</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One thing the blogosphere is good for is spirited discussion and fast dissemination of news stories. One thing it is not good for is the old addage "where there's smoke, there's fire".</p> <p>The recent "swifthacking" of CRU email (aka "climategate") is a great example of tremendous amounts of smoke being created out of something <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2009/12/ccw_-_smacking_the_hack_attack.php">statistically indistinguishable from bupkus</a>.</p> <!--more--><p>The UK's House of Commons has released a report after weeks of careful investigation into the details and implications of the illegally obtained and distributed emails to and from a handful of East Anglia University climate scientists. This is what is required to see through the smoke that has billowed over the intertubes in the several months since this event and lo and behold, there is in fact no fire as far as the two important issues are concerned: the alledged scientific frauds and the alledged unethical behaviour of the scientists involved towards peer review and the pursuit of the truth.</p> <p>So the reports of the death of anthropogenic global warming have been, um, shall we say "<a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/viscount-monckton-on-global-warminggate-they-are-criminals-pjm-exclusive/">exaggerated</a>".</p> <p>The matter of the FOI requests is the only one of concern and this enquiry recommends another to look specifically at that issue. There is a statute of limitations on criminal consequences which has run out so all involved are safe from legal consequences, but given the high profile and public importance of climate science an investigation is surely a good idea. The law is the law, regardless of how <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2010/02/the_f_in_foi_request_stands_fo.php">it is being abused</a>.</p> <p><a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/387/387i.pdf">The 60 page report can be found here</a>.</p> <p>Here is the Summary:</p> <blockquote><p>The disclosure of climate data from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia (UEA) in November 2009 had the potential to damage the reputation of the climate science and the scientists involved.</p> <p>We believe that the focus on CRU and Professor Phil Jones, Director of CRU, in particular, has largely been misplaced. Whilst we are concerned that the disclosed e-mails suggest a blunt refusal to share scientific data and methodologies with others, we can sympathise with Professor Jones, who must have found it frustrating to handle requests for data that he knew--or perceived--were motivated by a desire simply to undermine his work.</p> <p>In the context of the sharing of data and methodologies, we consider that Professor Jones's actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community. It is not standard practice in climate science to publish the raw data and the computer code in academic papers. However, climate science is a matter of great importance and the quality of the science should be irreproachable. We therefore consider that climate scientists should take steps to make available all the data that support their work (including raw data) and full methodological workings (including the computer codes). Had both been available, many of the problems at UEA could have been avoided.</p> <p>We are content that the phrases such as "trick" or "hiding the decline" were colloquial terms used in private e-mails and the balance of evidence is that they were not part of a systematic attempt to mislead. Likewise the evidence that we have seen does not suggest that Professor Jones was trying to subvert the peer review process. Academics should not be criticised for making informal comments on academic papers.</p> <p>In the context of Freedom of Information (FOIA), much of the responsibility should lie with UEA. The disclosed e-mails appear to show a culture of non-disclosure at CRU and instances where information may have been deleted, to avoid disclosure. We found prima facie evidence to suggest that the UEA found ways to support the culture at CRU of resisting disclosure of information to climate change sceptics. The failure of UEA to grasp fully the potential damage to CRU and UEA by the non-disclosure of FOIA requests was regrettable. UEA needs to review its policy towards FOIA and re-assess how it can support academics whose expertise in this area is limited.</p> <p>The Deputy Information Commissioner has given a clear indication that a breach of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 may have occurred but that a prosecution was time-barred; however no investigation has been carried out. In our view it is unsatisfactory to leave the matter unresolved. We conclude that the matter needs to be resolved conclusively--either by the Independent Climate Change Email Review or by the Information Commissioner.<br /> We accept the independence of the Climate Change E-mail Review and recommend that the Review be open and transparent, taking oral evidence and conducting interviews in public wherever possible.</p> <p>On 22 March UEA announced the Scientific Appraisal Panel to be chaired by Lord Oxburgh. This Panelshould determine whether the work of CRU has been soundly built and it would be premature for us to pre-judge its work.</p></blockquote> <p>This supports my personal view that the focus has largely been an unfounded <em>ad hominem</em> attack on Phil Jones as a proxy for the entire climate science community. </p> <p>I also heartily agree with this passage:</p> <blockquote><p>"climate science is a matter of great importance and the quality of the science should be irreproachable. We therefore consider that climate scientists should take steps to make available all the data that support their work (including raw data) and full methodological workings (including the computer codes). Had both been available, many of the problems at UEA could have been avoided."</p></blockquote> <p>It is however unreasonable and impractical to apply this retroactively, unfortunate as that fact may be. It is also not without costs in time and money.</p> <p>Here are the report's three conclusions (with bits of added emphasis):</p> <blockquote><p><strong>Conclusion 1</strong> <strong>The focus on Professor Jones and CRU has been largely misplaced</strong>. On the accusations relating to Professor Jones's refusal to share raw data and computer codes, we consider that his actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community. We have suggested that the community consider becoming more transparent by publishing raw data and detailed methodologies. <strong>On accusations relating to Freedom of Information, we consider that much of the responsibility should lie with UEA, not CRU</strong>.</p> <p><strong>Conclusion 2</strong> In addition, <strong>insofar as we have been able to consider accusations of dishonesty</strong>--for example, Professor Jones's alleged attempt to "hide the decline"--<strong>we consider that there is no case to answer</strong>. Within our limited inquiry and the evidence we took, the scientific reputation of Professor Jones and CRU remains intact. We have found no reason in this unfortunate episode to challenge the scientific consensus as expressed by Professor Beddington, that "global warming is happening [and] that it is induced by human activity". It was not our purpose to examine, nor did we seek evidence on, the science produced by CRU. It will be for the Scientific Appraisal Panel to look in detail into all the evidence to determine whether or not the consensus view remains valid.</p> <p><strong>Conclusion 3</strong> A great responsibility rests on the shoulders of climate science: to provide the planet's decision makers with the knowledge they need to secure our future. The challenge that this poses is extensive and some of these decisions risk our standard of living. When the prices to pay are so large, the knowledge on which these kinds of decisions are taken had better be right. <strong>The science must be irreproachable</strong>.</p></blockquote> <p>Regarding that last emphasis, let's not kid ourselves that any amount of transparency will ever stop the denial industry, but let's not give them any grains of truth to embed in their <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt">FUD</a> productions.</p> <p>Read it all for yourself, <a href="http://climateprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/HC387-IUEAFinalEmbargoedv21.pdf">here.</a></p> <p>[<a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/387/387ii.pdf">Update: there is a part 2 as well</a>, being the oral and written evidence from the investigation]</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/illconsidered" lang="" about="/author/illconsidered" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">illconsidered</a></span> <span>Fri, 04/02/2010 - 11:20</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/news" hreflang="en">News</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/politics" hreflang="en">Politics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-change" hreflang="en">climate change</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climategate" hreflang="en">ClimateGate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cru" hreflang="en">CRU</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cru-email" hreflang="en">CRU email</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/parlimentary-enquiry" hreflang="en">parlimentary enquiry</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1588637" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270255390"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>All of which will simply be considered more evidence of conspiracy by denialists, and which will be swept up in a storm of misinformation from the media, who seem either hell bent on ruining the public perception of science or so incompetent at science journalism that they are achieving this end in spite of good intentions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1588637&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bS3vmBVE1WGm8Ppf9y7M_FmX63K918LkQAKL5zk2JyQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nils Ross (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1588637">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1588638" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270273519"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What is clear is that the denialists are the ones in conspiracy. Well funded at that</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1588638&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="87-Ue6REOE8P19De8v03WKObJXZ5XU29YaE0US4BbIY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rabett.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eli Rabett (not verified)</a> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-1588638">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/illconsidered/2010/04/lots-of-smoke-no-fire%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 02 Apr 2010 15:20:17 +0000 illconsidered 41251 at https://scienceblogs.com Phil Jones vindicated https://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/01/phil-jones-vindicated <span>Phil Jones vindicated</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The House of Commons <a href="http://climateprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/HC387-IUEAFinalEmbargoedv21.pdf">report on the emails stolen from CRU</a> has vindicated Phil Jones -- he has "no case to answer":</p> <blockquote><p>The focus on Professor Jones and CRU has been largely misplaced. On the accusations relating to Professor Jones's refusal to share raw data and computer codes, we consider that his actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community. We have suggested that the community consider becoming more transparent by publishing raw data and detailed methodologies. On accusations relating to Freedom of Information, we consider that much of the responsibility should lie with UEA, not CRU.</p> <p>In addition, insofar as we have been able to consider accusations of dishonesty--for example, Professor Jones's alleged attempt to "hide the decline"--we consider that there is no case to answer. Within our limited inquiry and the evidence we took, the scientific reputation of Professor Jones and CRU remains intact. We have found no reason in this unfortunate episode to challenge the scientific consensus as expressed by Professor Beddington, that "global warming is happening [and] that it is induced by human activity"</p> </blockquote> <p>James Annan <a href="http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/2010/03/govt-policy-reprehensible-says-science.html">points out</a> that it is the governments own policy of wanting ownership of intellectual property that is preventing the publication of raw data and code.</p> <p>See also: <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2010/03/uea_circus_continued.php">William Connolley</a>, <a href="http://rabett.blogspot.com/2010/03/cru-inquiry-report.html">Eli Rabbet</a>, <a href="http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/30/house-of-commons-exonerates-climate-scientist-phil-jones/">Joe Romm</a> and <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2862717.htm">Clive Hamilton</a>.</p> <p>A big raspberry to Fred Pearce, who <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/dogged-pearce-still-hounding-jones/">won't let go of his vendetta against Jones</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/tlambert" lang="" about="/author/tlambert" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tlambert</a></span> <span>Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:11</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pearcegate" hreflang="en">Pearcegate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climate-research-unit" hreflang="en">Climate Research Unit</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climategate" hreflang="en">ClimateGate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/fred-pearce" hreflang="en">Fred Pearce</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915050" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270096482"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hysterical accusations of a cover-up in 5, 4, 3, 2...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915050&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="g9_LR9HXZJH2mYngay7kxPfppOhRBmX8eN2RFxu_g00"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WotWot (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915050">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915051" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270098450"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@WotWot: heh, made a similar comment on a Dutch news site yesterday. No less than two comments later the first such accusation appeared. Sometimes I hate being right.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915051&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="93EvTu5O_7leSiePKCAk9XnW1ykvxoDC0d5MqzACvJ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://denkeensechtna.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Deen (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915051">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915052" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270099421"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@WotWot: too late. Andrew Bolt's lap dogs beat you to the punch.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915052&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e70bNwO0NVBe5alAPoxzam9rtaXSeDKShOvVw4D6m5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://thesecondsight.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">EoR (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915052">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915053" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270099600"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wrote a letter to The Australian asking if they were going to prominently cover this story - that there was no conspiracy, nothing illegal, and the data says what the data says (and wow, who ever would've guessed?).</p> <p>No I won't hold my breath, because I can only do that for a few seconds, not a few months.</p> <p>And yes, let's brace ourselves for accusations of the conspiracy to hide the conspiracy. Or is this the third tier? The conspiracy to hide the conspiracy which hides the conspiracy? It's easy to get a bit confused when reading denialist commentary as to how many conspiracies we have running at one time.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915053&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_ZtMq20Z9oD6ESvStJvLd8JAy4AO1AyUNBurfCGFpBI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915053">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915054" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270100118"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I forgot to add, one big criticism I have of climate science is that all the conspiracies overlap each other. Managing so many conspiracies is overly bureaucratic, and far too much duplication of effort.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915054&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CkpDjsW1lD2qY33DqjmkS6G6ye6wG7tx9BOknXIl_2A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915054">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915055" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270100208"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Hysterical accusations of a cover-up in 5, 4, 3, 2...</p></blockquote> <p>Accusations like this are a win-win for denialists.</p> <p>If something - anything, no matter how trivial - is found, they trumpet it like the Second Coming has arrived.</p> <p>If nothing is found, they trumpet the conspiracy to cover it up like the Second Coming (because they *know* there must have been *something*). This is particularly effective because many of their followers don't need much persuading when rumours of a conspiracy are afoot.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915055&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4z91vR70pzU6Ccfix6Ur4g1hGLtiWfKALm4CQ6WWKOw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915055">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915056" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270106892"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ 2, 3, &amp; 6</p> <p>Yes, it so predictable*, isn't it. </p> <p>I have no doubt it was already happening across the wider InterTubesThingy, long before I even fired up my computer this morning and read the news. Predictable, and retrodictable too. </p> <p>(* 'Predictable', in the special case sense of the probability being indisputably 1.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915056&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GcYAH-ge2_uTxPdQAefqpa47KPYbVYSzvCWOWVuoCGg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WotWot (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915056">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915057" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270106929"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>To a conspiracy theorist, there are two types of evidence: If it shows what they want, it proves their theory. If it doesn't show what they want, it proves there has been a cover-up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915057&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TgE0d9DgBJd2C3l3tMHdJpeHj3LK7jcWVbawaUbEeWI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JamesA (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915057">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915058" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270107188"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The way people react to the House of Commons Committee's exoneration of Jones and the CRU product pretty much tells you all you need to know.</p> <p>Insisting on holding Jones "accountable" (with his resignation?) for the nebulous "crime" of withholding information from non-scientists has nothing to do with science.</p> <p>What Fred Pearce is doing at this point is obviously meant primarily to "rehabilitate" his reputation as a science journalist, which has obviously been tarnished by his jump to "convict" Jones before all the evidence was even in.</p> <p>Pearce has been left looking like the fool with egg all over his face.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915058&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SEGpMqLQY4mOOimvbQ0uscvFgUkW2jJPom_E8uTxLLQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JB (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915058">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915059" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270108188"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I forgot to add, one big criticism I have of climate science is that all the conspiracies overlap each other. Managing so many conspiracies is overly bureaucratic, and far too much duplication of effort.</p></blockquote> <p>This is what you get with government programs. The free market is much better at creating profitable conspiracies. Ask any libertarian.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915059&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DEmjr-f0X_n7BxsXDT8kOZMU-nxOwSngWmHVMDkLIYs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Boris (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915059">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915060" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270109254"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You wrote to The Australian?</p> <p>Are you insane? Why would you do that? </p> <p>Murdoch loves people who help him own the issue by interacting with his properties on his terms.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915060&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="i5A4dQZqqFUoNoz3P9-HweX2-K_NBt5HxvFBF_xK-e0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.stopmurdoch.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stopmurdoch (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915060">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915061" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270110785"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Tim:</p> <p>I'm all for herding cats and so on, but what sort of letter to Pearce/Guardian would help?</p> <p>Seriously - the only thing I could gather over at RealClimate is that the Economist was doing a better job - would that be a good thing to bring up?</p> <p>I was really angry to see what Pearce just wrote, but being furious never solves things in and of itself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915061&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VWeyGmXzR8thhN1-4OdeFCoz1elKWteDz8q2RBu1kVU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marion Delgado (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915061">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915062" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270113261"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's pretty clear that Pearce has a personal vendetta against Jones which is clouding his judgement on everything he writes. I'm more interested in what George Monbiot's response will be. I've emailed him to ask whether he'll apologise to Phil Jones for demanding his resignation in November.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915062&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tk9Q9ZG9hpgjHfswy-wB6NP45GHegaq1zFZsYDQZclY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915062">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915063" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270115627"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Surely Marion isn't suggesting chucking rocks at trains?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915063&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yxfnLwwhtNXA1N1wShs458b2oDyF6u7p1sdtfKUYT1g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.stopmurdoch.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stopmurdoch (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915063">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915064" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270116638"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I just skimmed the Pearce article. He is vicious. (And they say women are bitchy!) Obviously he loathes Prof Jones. I suspect as well, he wants to keep the issue alive because of his book that was mentioned on realclimate.org, if I understood Randerson correctly. If the emails mean nothing then his book is a real washout. (And I sincerely hope he gets zip from it.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915064&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aJ9Uk-ZpzwJVKJ2khbd3NZsB_Htctc8AhHm06GHXUNI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://bundanga.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sou (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915064">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915065" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270118463"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>stopmurdoch:</p> <p>Indiscretions that happened before you were 5 years old should be left in the past! :)</p> <p>Seriously, I want to influence, not vent - so what do we say to Pearce that will actually work?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915065&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TJolVjdFlcAUsh1gl_NHjE8n3gaW44uVBXrCtW0U9Ps"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marion Delgado (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915065">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915066" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270119448"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, you can look at what is happening to McLean on the Drum.....:)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915066&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y9P1pRRqj0JbhuKf-Jww4uJsTOlyrRYNvqePBRnE96w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rabett.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eli Rabett (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915066">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915067" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270119623"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Well, you can look at what is happening to McLean on the Drum.....:)</p></blockquote> <p>The source for First Nations and Aboriginal news?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915067&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ijPmhAAjTrOWJ4B-Ej6_3W3PGxj6opZse5XnTcGvo_k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915067">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915068" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270120034"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Some more here, especially on Graham Stringer.</p> <p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2010/03/31/climategate-investigations-round-1-cru-exonerated/">http://deepclimate.org/2010/03/31/climategate-investigations-round-1-cr…</a></p> <p>"Contrarians took comfort in maverick Labour MP Graham Stringerâs objections to some of the findings. But even here, there is little for the contrarians to cheer about, as Stringer appeared at pains to avoid any appearance of endorsing the plausibility of any of the specific accusations of dishonesty. Thatâs just as well, because it turns out that Stringer appears to be relying for his understanding of the issues, not on the submitted evidence, but rather â wait for it â the âquickieâ book on Climategate written by Steven Mosher and Thomas Fuller."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915068&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="E844A34DqCRj9AuckHjRcw1Z8QWwRHwmnCx064WAXfc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://deepclimate.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Deep Climate (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915068">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915069" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270120879"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bud:</p> <p>&gt; I've emailed [Monbiot] to ask whether he'll apologise to Phil Jones for demanding his resignation in November.</p> <p>Yes. This is what I'm waiting for - he owes Jones an expansive, grovelling apology. </p> <p>Monbiot's reaction to the Denier propaganda has been pathetic over the last few months - he appears to have capitulated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915069&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S-27YblhxrSSwdAWIUpSShNYRkPAOszWXlmdUs4tyPc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DavidCOG (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915069">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915070" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270124809"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe some folks here could please go over to the BBC (Richard Black's post) trying to make some reasonable and factually correct comments about this affair. Richard Black's piece is OK, but he insisted on asking McIntyre's opinion. And IMO, Black does not go far enough to highlight what an abject failure this exercise was for the denier machine.</p> <p>Thus far the deniers have been posting random thoughts and conspiracy theories at will over at BBC.</p> <p>DC @19, some of the commentators there have made the (incorrect) statement that Stinger was the only scientist on the committee. I really liked the abstract that you provided at the start of your last article. Great idea.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915070&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IvQ2GuIfsZuraq0o8ba3JNgavIXWHpHOywSYKl_rQ2U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915070">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915071" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270130545"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If having a room full of politicians who have been promoting your agenda for the last 20 years say "Well, he didn't do anything different than any other climate scientist" is vindication, then that's a very, very sad win</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915071&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M2U8XTr7YBcFcZwAFL0_zuoCFFE9O6bUXL8Ozab32Q0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JRyan (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915071">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915072" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270130717"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@JRyan - that's a very interesting IF. Also in fantasyland: me and Rosario Dawson! (Which is a very, very happy win.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915072&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SVNX6jyftCBakTfD2mVVRiuWUw7yRibhGVSiekeYV7k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915072">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915073" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270131988"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A one day hearing and Jones is 'vindicated'. Come on Tim not even you can believe that to be true.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915073&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UIm3JKmSLcj4gVGAdcVLC3YMk2ACTWxEU0rydUtB0D0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915073">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915074" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270133201"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>...1</p> <p>And here they are (22 &amp; 24).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915074&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Di6vROv40oqiM3RBYt9kM-1DFfiOHKoBuU8gm7eSFFY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WotWot (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915074">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915075" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270133960"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Bud</p> <p>Yes, I'm waiting for Monbiot to apologise for his knee-jerk calls for resignation. He jumped the gun, and showed no sign of backing away from that position over the last few months.</p> <p>He fell for the misrepresentations and smears, and should own up to it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915075&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9ZTiFlLkIvnZobRj7Vo0uMG_mglT4zyTf4GxEUCOwdw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915075">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915076" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270134695"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>WotWot,</p> <p>There were no hysterics, merely a question about how anyone could believe a one day hearing was able to resolve anything?</p> <p>Do you believe that is possible?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915076&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iNxxJh2QDPIAtzcLhtQKYK5zHMaQavnOYctqnk333e0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915076">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915077" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270134981"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave A said @ #24 "A one day hearing and Jones is 'vindicated'. Come on Tim not even you can believe that to be true". </p> <p>C'mon Dave A, be fair.</p> <p>They did allow Boehmer-Christiansen and McinTyres to spew their incoherent dribble during the course of it.</p> <p>How much more of a handicap can you tosseurs require or wish for?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915077&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cYdWYfOY1NOlDWCJ1wDWXKvSQuUTndDUDSnCLchu8Ig"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">chek (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915077">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915078" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270135782"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would like to apologise for ever doubting the veracity of the hockey stick.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915078&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="akU3d8sSSdSc_k1Lvhyf9zsZXMujD6NSoyYTUHHCdyY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915078">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915079" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270136018"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There were no hysterics, merely a question about how anyone could believe a one day hearing was able to resolve anything?</p></blockquote> <p>If I'm not mistaken, you're the one who's done the exhaustive study the relationship between time spent on hearings and their possibility of resolution, right? It was pretty definitive, from what I recall, although some folks said you didn't spend enough time on it for it to have been able to resolve anything. Did you ever address those concerns?</p> <blockquote><p>Do you believe that is possible?</p></blockquote> <p>Let's put it this way: a billion single-day hearings will come to a resolution before you ever say anything worthwhile.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915079&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="weU260v1NnUcfVYOcCL5mo0oZreDMyYKo3QQCdemNu8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915079">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915080" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270139284"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Monbiot is still silent. Maybe <i>he</i> should resign.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915080&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XnBg0iINVFKTx1qeT0dk7c7aLMyGgdpLyWO_Ht4Bm3s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dan L. (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915080">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915081" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270141428"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@31. Maybe Monbiot is just horribly embarrassed at having fallen for the denialist spin?</p> <p>@24. Perhaps you neglected to read it, Dave Andrews? <i>He has no case to answer.</i></p> <p>We all understand your bitter disappointment at now two formal inquiries which have found there is no evidence of fudged data in climate science, but unfortunately whether they convene for a day or a year patiently waiting for evidence of fudged data to turn up, it is not going to change this situation. To be fair, they <i>did</i> call for submissions, both written and verbal, however I'm not sure that the "liar, liar, pants on fire" submission favoured by the denialist community is generally considered conclusive evidence of wrongdoing.</p> <p>Now, your boys have had access to all this raw climate data plus the software code used to process it for quite a while since this event occurred (plus access to everyone else's data for years before that). How's that data analysis going showing that it was manipulated to show warming? Everything seems to be real quiet on that front. Can we assume that you're still "working on it"?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915081&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7rEYmJD2KYqa9CEK55W5nZz9DcnNLp_aBU7fE4SUQe4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915081">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915082" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270144104"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The source for First Nations and Aboriginal news?</p></blockquote> <p>Sheesh, we used to have better POEs. It's like their heart's not in it any more.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915082&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VZVE_cfzZgswGY7YbEMZ5O87loxKokHBUcYmY_7833Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915082">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915083" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270144724"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Perhaps Monbiot is keeping his powder dry until Sir Muir Russell's inquiry reports.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915083&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uLOpaR6bNBuLPPrDe60II3COhMX_MfuLzsCAR7f6YcI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">P. Lewis (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915083">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915084" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270147631"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There were no hysterics, merely a question about how anyone could believe a one day hearing was able to resolve anything?</p></blockquote> <p>It took me about 5 minutes of reading the emails to discover that they did not say what the denialists claimed they said. </p> <p>One day is more than enough to conclude that there's no there, there.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915084&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zK8d7cwxq6gHGQiRYZwvx7e0hD1aaeRkNB0xtE1QYPA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pandasthumb.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve Reuland (not verified)</a> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915084">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915085" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270148372"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>P.Lewis</p> <blockquote><p>Perhaps Monbiot is keeping his powder dry until Sir Muir Russell's inquiry reports.</p></blockquote> <p>You are probably right, and to be fair, I'd probably do the same had I put myself in Monbiot's position. </p> <p>Incidentally, the pre-emptive accusations of cover-up on that score have already started over in climate Lala-Land. McIntyre has been going into hysterics over it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915085&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wcYt_t73ZgZMgQt_F_4MQW8zc7iqVqbHhV92PKFWt9I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915085">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915086" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270150078"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@33 I ain't no Poe, I just get a little annoyed by cryptic comments without links that point to sites with incredibly generic names like "Drum". I did a search. What I found was what I described (plus a billion percussion sites). After a lot more searching, I found the site he was referring to. After a lot more searching on that site, I found the article. Since he knew what the URL was, he could have just included it. In the third person, of course, so it would have still been annoying. ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915086&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tJ4MjTQJ3cYxS_QSG25A-8yjY8JEc3J82Dn6DdravX0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915086">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915087" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270150236"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>{ELI}Eli knows the [URL](<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2861936.htm">http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2861936.htm</a>){/ELI}</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915087&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OtIv2PROaWqctB83MC7qsqPAVW9i-ZvpcczMLHTimFA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915087">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915088" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270151811"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Monbiot is hedging his bets, while James Lovelock is looking at the big picture.</p> <p>'We havenât got the physics worked out yet....</p> <p>We do need scepticism about the predictions about what will happen to the climate in 50 years, or whatever. Itâs almost naive, scientifically speaking, to think we can give relatively accurate predictions for future climate. There are so many unknowns that itâs wrong to do it.'</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915088&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Gp7MAMtgUCZyeFBZez9yf2wz1Izvfxx1FQgiLRdJYE0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915088">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915089" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270152852"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I ain't no Poe...</p></blockquote> <p>I wasn't sure you were, but couldn't resist the implied pun in response to your somewhat cryptic comment ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915089&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ArWZk1WCWErQITNsxPN8GBv1YT-3MUVjtNUZeL5YM8o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915089">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915090" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270159240"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There were no hysterics, merely a question about how anyone could believe a one day hearing was able to resolve anything?</p> <blockquote><p>It took me about 5 minutes of reading the emails to discover that they did not say what the denialists claimed they said.<br /> One day is more than enough to conclude that there's no there, there.</p></blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Exactly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915090&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="b6jk27VGfFOCRU-BbqwM6mN-UiJoRNx1LIebP5VOg0k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WotWot (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915090">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915091" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270161310"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does this mean that billionaire oilmen David and Charles Koch are entitled to a refund of their US$50 million?</p> <p>Greenpeace Case Study:<br /> [The Koch-funded âClimateGateâ Echo Chamber](<a href="http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/koch-industries/case-study-the-koch-funded-c">http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/pollu…</a>) and<br /> [Exposing the dirty money behind fake climate science](<a href="http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/dirty-money-climate-30032010">http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/dirty-money-climate-300320…</a>)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915091&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QjSMN6fgTbFayA9cm4m3GKXsiJnQdibUKPbUD0ln6Cs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeH (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915091">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915092" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270161491"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>el gordo quoting out-of-context:</p> <blockquote><p>Itâs almost naive, scientifically speaking, to think we can give relatively accurate predictions for future climate.</p></blockquote> <p>And it's absolutely naive, stupid even, to assume that dumping vast quantities of CO2, a known greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere will have no significant adverse effect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915092&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DupvnoTjph9_5KlBTVDYpxJ0ly7X458K4JVnehXoX4U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915092">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915093" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270166955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I found this comment on the Times Online article. Thanks Adam R. whoever you are :-)</p> <blockquote><p> The deniers are wailing across the internet: the investigation did not confirm their ignorant suspicions; it must have been fixed.</p> <p>If God Himself had produced stone tablets exonerating Jones, a million deniers would have become atheists overnight. </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915093&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KknRy3GLPcJqGdbWtA5t0FvBV5-Vrey-7KvWifw9Psg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeH (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915093">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915094" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270167998"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The second inquiry into ClimateGate will be chaired by Lord Oxburgh, a director of GLOBE, the Global Legislators Organisation for a Balanced Environment.</p> <p>The peer leading the second Climategate enquiry at the University of East Anglia serves as a director of one of the most powerful environmental networks in the world and has failed to declare it. </p> <p>James Delingpole and Bishop Hill have the wrap on the conflicts of interest and power plays in the second committee, and how the GLOBE company was set up to avoid FOIâs. </p> <p>In 2007 Globe created âa forum for legislators and business leaders to discuss the 2012 climate agreement, illegal logging and related issuesâ. </p> <p>Like the end of the world.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915094&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="emiK1-LocZe-EQkCJI7DDcregY2E3v0UHhoKN0vwAnQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915094">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915095" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270169001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>get over it el gordo. </p> <p>nothing of any relevance was inside those STOLEN MAILS. </p> <p>this will now be confirmed by a series of investigations. </p> <p>just be happy with the misinformation and confusion that denialists were able to spread among the uneducated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915095&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xhxp-kQ2RjYg-W9dBEOTdYNUZJrHu6slwtOMUcOpd_Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sod (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915095">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915096" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270169693"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What is telling about the reaction of the delusionals here is that once again, they demonstrate the behaviour they disingenuously complain of in climate scientists.</p> <p>The data from the stolen emails has been ecamined and the result doesn't fit their model -- that being that <i>these emails offer evidence of a scientific fraud on a global scale</i> -- which can only prove that the data is wrong or thast this inquiry was part of the fraud. Their model is unfalsifiable, and of that, they have not the least skepticism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915096&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YE0U_NzC_51aGy9kycXPq3kAFu1c0IM4E3dFh3R8SmA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915096">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915097" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270177953"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>sod<br /> &gt;nothing of any relevance was inside those STOLEN MAILS. </p> <p>Loxburgh isn't heading the email inquiry.<br /> There are two inquiries, one into the emails and another into the science.</p> <p>Loxburgh is leading the science inquiry.<br /> Sir Muir Russell is leading the inquiry looking at the emails.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915097&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4PHGKxOO9DsMdOCxw9zKRslt9olAxShmG9rxIypImiQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul UK (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915097">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915098" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270178141"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No matter how many formal inquiries find...what was it again?.....oh yeah that's right - <b>no case to answer</b> - the sceptics are not going to be happy until some inquiry, any inquiry dammit, finds evidence of a grand conspiracy.</p> <p>They could be waiting quite some time for that, given the body of scientific evidence collected over decades.</p> <p>These people are just mental. I'm now totally convinced of that (yeah I'm a slow learner). They have 'roos running loose in the top paddock. They really, truly do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915098&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="daWQextIMbpeLKone3faGT7fUsqOFtTWGdzMzi6b2v0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915098">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915099" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270178919"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Only, Fran, the scientific fraud on a global scale is not a testable hypothesis in the skeptiverse: it is a <i>self-evident axiom</i>. And a corollary of this axiom is that the emails (which were leaked by somebody who couldn't stomack the fraud) must contain evidence of the fraud. Consequently, the failure of the committee to find any evidence of fraud implies that the whole investigation was a white-wash. It all follows logically from the axiom. There is no way it can be otherwise. In the skeptiverse.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915099&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WmHUk5hcSkzlEFRZnETo_zXHYyAMh4hTUohkynf2s2Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lars Karlsson (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915099">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915100" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270179654"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks for the clarification, Paul.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915100&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3vab1lBhE_FWd6cMzMIXtf0UzcwsuDNBB4qVEhDPVjA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 01 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915100">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915101" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270182721"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Seem to me the denialistas missed a golden opportunity to make out that this was an April Fools gag post.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915101&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BTA4wNDPN2QTKd0T3f-gQlnEhm0AfzLYIUD2ZDdnNb0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ezzthetic (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915101">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915102" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270196652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>German magazine Der Spiegel published an at least partially denialist <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,686697,00.html">article</a>. "Fair and balanced" ...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915102&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="50PlxvSUD2WWfyU7jVn2w-9k6BN1Ag_QaGGtgf17LeM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris From Europe (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915102">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915103" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270197928"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews,</p> <p>I require your details, address, phone number, email, professional associations and collaborations etc.</p> <p>This is because I am going to serve you with a FOI request to check what work you are doing on the data and code that has been released by groups such as CRU, etc. The reason I can serve the FOI request is that my taxes paid for that data and my taxes have paid for its release and my taxes have paid for that unneeded UK parliamentary enquiry. So if you are going to handle the data I helped pay for then I want to know if I am getting my moneys' worth.</p> <p>If you are not doing anything with that data and didn't request it then fine just confirm that for me. If you refuse by saying you are not in the UK tax juristriction and so not covered then I am tax resident in two territories so I will make the request in the other territory. </p> <p>So are you doing anything to analyse the data and code?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915103&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FpAqvDSIcM_h5hUSh3jZyu2LFt4Rs0JEEkJoDahSAJo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915103">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915104" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270200933"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The tone of many of these comments is disappointing, to say the least. It seems pretty clear that Jones is a very bad scientist or simply dishonest (I prefer the former.) There have been so many peer reviewed holes blown into his scientific model of global warming that no serious scientist should take it seriously. He, as some of his colleagues, is an embarrassment to the rich history of western science that precedes him. I should also note that anyone who uses the word "denier" in this context is a low life; the implicit ad hominem argument underlying the use of this indecent term flows from the weakness of the underlying argument.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915104&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6o3Ux6q71T1oGNOL3uT0PLTx1NYjrHEB0HwPBcKmSa4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DBeckerMich, Ph.D. (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915104">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915105" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270201294"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@39:</p> <blockquote><p>We do need scepticism about the predictions about what will happen to the climate in 50 years, or whatever. Itâs almost naive, scientifically speaking, to think we can give relatively accurate predictions for future climate.</p></blockquote> <p>To the extent that there is substantial uncertainty about future warming, the issue should be treated as an insurance problem. Low-cost steps should be taken to minimize the probability of high-cost consequences. I am not certain that my house will burn down, but I still buy fire insurance.</p> <p>But mitigation is the one thing that denialists are dogmatically opposed to. They cannot admit, therefore, that substantial warming <i>might</i> occur but hopefully won't be too bad, because it still argues for the same course of action. So they're forced to believe that global warming is a hoax or a fraud, and (ironically for people calling themselves 'skeptics'), they adopt a position of absolute certainty that unlimited carbon emissions will never cause significant warming. </p> <p>This is why, as Lars pointed out, the existence of a vast global warming conspiracy is a self-evident axiom for these people. It is the only way to reconcile the cognitive dissonance caused by science and their belief system going in opposite directions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915105&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Pk-U9cGjxZyt6IcOnUu66PSPoWdGkCptNRsI3NHyceQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pandasthumb.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve Reuland (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915105">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915106" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270201541"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There have been so many peer reviewed holes blown into his scientific model of global warming that no serious scientist should take it seriously.</p></blockquote> <p>Okay, I challenge you to show us these "peer-reviewed" holes. Citations please.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915106&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="F2lMR51fQAscYqy09CgsdV8_zaWgM9CnxltsE_-4U7I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pandasthumb.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve Reuland (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915106">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915107" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270202866"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: 48<br /> Loxburgh?</p> <p><a href="http://biographies.parliament.uk/parliament/default.asp?id=27143">Lord Ronald Oxburgh</a> is leading the science inquiry. He is a *very* good guy, was the long-time Rector of Imperial College, and for a while, was recruited Chairman of Shell (to clean up the mess).</p> <p>He is pretty blunt, and and surprised some people in <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/jun/17/sciencenews.research">My fears for the planet</a>, a most un-oil-chiefy interview, done by The Guardian's David Adam, who has been doing good work on the IOP mess in UK.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915107&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XCLNEO6bvUIPzJF0H4iz8O_rdh0uyDkSOqqscFQ5IOk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915107">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915108" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270204224"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@DBeckerMich, Ph.D.</p> <p>Thanks for that self-righteous, evidence free rant. </p> <p>Thanks for confirming yet again that - like children that feel the need to append their age when writing letters to newspapers or magazines - it is those that are most divorced from a credible understanding of the science at hand that feel the burning need to tack letters at the end of their name at every opportunity. Every time I see it it reminds me of "Arnold J. Rimmer (Bsc Ssc)".</p> <p>Thanks for confirming yet again that those that leap to accusations of Ad Hominem are normally those without either evidence to back up their position or indeed an understanding of what Ad Hominem actually means.</p> <p>As per your request, I will refrain from labelling you a "denier". You may have your pick of "mind-bogglingly stupid", or "tone-trolling liar".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915108&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="V06TFzxIb_44SHS0lJUCujftdmsq88oPKTH7rJnxchA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915108">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915109" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270204363"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The tone of many of these comments is disappointing, to say the least.</p></blockquote> <p>Really? I hadn't thought so.</p> <blockquote><p>It seems pretty clear that Jones is a very bad scientist or simply dishonest (I prefer the former.)</p></blockquote> <p>I stand corrected.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915109&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u0JUqiY2_dXbGAIQiv4h2_hM9ry5kBRDZzRRTfTAztI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915109">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915110" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270204976"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>DBeckerMich, Ph.D. @ 55</p> <p>You said of Phil Jones:</p> <p>"his scientific model of global warming".</p> <p>What model is this? Why do you call it a model? Could you describe it for us using references (as you would've been taught to do all through undergrad to awarding of your PhD) and how it fits or doesn't with the science of global warming.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915110&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ojCBvT6T8xc2zInhfo-bFgiIk_Ab0Rbu-Qc6QYzjgqg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915110">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915111" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270205202"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If God Himself had produced stone tablets exonerating Jones, a million deniers would have become atheists overnight. </p></blockquote> <p>Apparently Adam R and I think a lot alike, though I said "If God himself hit them over the head with stone tablets exonerating Jones ..."</p> <p>Too funny, though I don't remember where I posted it. We're both right, too.</p> <blockquote><p>There have been so many peer reviewed holes blown into his scientific model of global warming that no serious scientist should take it seriously. </p></blockquote> <p>Psst ... even PhDs can learn to do the Google and figure out that Phil Jones isn't a climate modeler.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915111&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0AP5qnHDaG6yME9po8doeILi3FP824ffWfyFXrNbZLA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dhogaza (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915111">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915112" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270206942"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><blockquote>"his scientific model of global warming".</blockquote> <p>What model is this? </p></blockquote> <p>It sounds suspiciously like "Al Gore's theory".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915112&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J_quy3kZSY47S0Z-wT6GLoVFdBMz5-qB7ndmmUcid2U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pandasthumb.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve Reuland (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915112">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915113" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270213232"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I should also note that anyone who uses the word "denier" in this context is a low life; the implicit ad hominem argument underlying the use of this indecent term flows from the weakness of the underlying argument.</p></blockquote> <p>I agree. Use of the indecent term "low life" flows from the weakness of the underlying argument, which was that Phil Jones is either incompetent or dishonest because all the models (he never made) have been blown out of the water by anywhere up to zero peer-reviewed papers.</p> <p>It's hard to undermine an argument like that, so bravo. That takes real skill.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915113&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EoOzoo0sQFAJuNtEyku1G966sr-qtK7D61bA_LIFjZg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915113">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915114" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270217134"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>McIntyre's Myrmidon said (65),</p> <p>"The planet has been cooling since 1998."</p> <p>Which is why 9 of the 10 warmest years on record all date after 1998. Thanks for playing anyway.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915114&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NJhqGrSnFddiYCULMkNLDeABEMDZp8TKCKElIeneOXU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915114">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915115" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270217709"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I should also note that anyone who uses the word "denier" in this context is a low life;</p></blockquote> <p>I've always preferred the term "denialiscenti".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915115&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f5fwzjkQ4tWq_xAHX2foaKCfwxSB5SxKq1rcK2hkIYQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Elmer, Ph.D (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915115">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915116" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270218943"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeremy C,</p> <p>Oh aren't you a card? Hang on your initial is C so you may well be!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915116&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e0u-c5I8OunC5hayIfADNJ_QZdVTe9pj_mZQI2lUK-g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915116">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915117" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270219551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jeremy C,</p> <p>The amount of money expended on this enquiry would be but a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of that that may have been wasted on climate change research over the last 20 years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915117&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ddcJRXMJZ3Z37H_lpig56R3lFlOuaGPlnOwa_X_jUj8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915117">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915118" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270221208"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Money spent on climate change research has not really been wasted, because it will help us detect imminent global cooling as it happens.</p> <p>We will adapt quickly, avoid mass starvation and economic dislocations, simply by being more aware.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915118&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yXb8qCD9SEI-QoU5U49aAHOssYjiNXkF8BUAtGrvrdQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915118">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915119" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270221958"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Although $80 billion might seem a little excessive, there are satellites and lots of boffins in white coats.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915119&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f4qN2yvn6apsW6f4AtXRH1z8m7FQT9igsdPvUJqtQr0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915119">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915120" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270223068"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@65. *Sigh*. Whoever would've thought you'd pick an anomously hot year to compare all the long term trends to? Haven't you guys stopped playing this game yet? Everyone else can see right through it, why can't you?</p> <p>DBeckerMich PhD, telling everyone you have a PhD doesn't make you default to a higher level of intelligence and commonsense, as we have seen so often.</p> <blockquote><p>"I should also note that anyone who uses the word "denier" in this context is a low life; the implicit ad hominem argument underlying the use of this indecent term..."</p></blockquote> <p>Wow! Arguing that anyone using the term "denier" is a "lowlife", is guilty of using ad hominem, and therefore has a weak argument. The hypocrisy in this statement is extreme.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915120&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="apJ_KwrAB0QO1A0gVKj9kjTTYlN6yCNN4W65xDS06g0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915120">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915121" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270223923"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews @ 68</p> <p>Stop wriggling </p> <p>Dave Andrews @ 69</p> <p>Exactly the reason why I want to make sure you are using the O/P of my taxpayers money properly.</p> <p>So stop hiding, wriggling, etc and hand over your details. I want to get that FOI in quicksmart, as the first in a production line process.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915121&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="32fJVl5rDaMm1gxSb1i3UgKTY9yBmmNSl_m7FaSJSjY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915121">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915122" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270224194"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Can one of the denialiti trolling around on this blog please tell The planet has been cooling since 1998 @ 65 that the 1998 cooling meme is well deaded and can't be used to fool people any more (why d'you think McClean et al wrote their paper, they must have known that meme was going to be shot down by the evidence).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915122&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="on8_yd1OWKTZJSKTikdnvk95vU5Dq2lYlGaIJYem_Fg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jeremy C (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915122">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915123" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270224592"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Money spent on climate change research has not really been wasted, because it will help us detect imminent global cooling as it happens.</i></p> <p>el gordo, all your posts are plain out stupid.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915123&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y6zgrVvGe-17_0Tytt-X5TNuZ_LTOX8FurXb6zWGcFE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sod (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915123">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915124" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270225044"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>El Gordo, did you every state <i>when</i> you expect this significant global cooling to happen?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915124&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="y25orBx75sJ7PMm474cJ1Ia0-eyBg-6cRFOKHiSkNzs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915124">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915125" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270225181"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>*Ever. D'oh.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915125&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xOBrICRj_Z7wF0qSE-1l2zEYiVUbwS7K0SHuE62PIPM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915125">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915126" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270225866"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Looks like since the great hope McinTyres was called up to the plate with his magnum opus, and then blew it, it's back to the good ol' standbys for the denialati. </p> <p>Climate? What's a climate? And all variations therof.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915126&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TNdtJIUiOYM9rZlVfI9RdEb49Dk4TBRIoRK-HlY5DdY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">chek (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915126">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915127" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270226985"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>DBeckerMich, Ph.D. @ 55</p> <p>"I should also note that anyone who uses the word "denier" in this context is a low life; the implicit ad hominem argument underlying the use of this indecent term flows from the weakness of the underlying argument."</p> <p>Aww...you don't like 'deniosaur', either, then?</p> <p>How about 'cliar'? That's firmly fact-based by now...</p> <p>-&gt;Zibethicus&lt;-, certified low life</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915127&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5upZ8UJwgctRkLdUpy1efHyphbBvd9gdkkqZofqvtu0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zibethicus (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915127">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915128" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270227960"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As a member of the Denialati I believe the world is cooling, even though the satellites tell us differently.</p> <p>Before you scream Kruger-Dunning, we will eventually be buying sulphate particulate credits.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915128&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="inbMpG1Xa1H60EyaVIFgJUr40RONFZnc1_0TAqJRp7E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915128">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915129" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270228642"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Before you scream Kruger-Dunning</p></blockquote> <p>As usual, you have it arse about ...</p> <p>Your other name is Poe right?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915129&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Se_T8DwbVOyuUaPpOuOgkvbnc2KXtphjxUznaTgvNsE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915129">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915130" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270228869"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"As a member of the Denialati I believe the world is cooling, even though the satellites tell us differently."</p> <p>The ground instrumentation says otherwise too. The volume of sea ice says otherwise as well, as does the world's glaciers, and so on. At least you admit you're in denial. That's the first step in getting help for your problem. Is there a reason you think your feelings trump facts?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915130&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="K8NixjDXBRnWIkKOYwmavqFDxaQiivqQOysLp7HKIOk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915130">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915131" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270229459"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt;Is there a reason you think your feelings trump facts? </p> <p>Yes, Robert. He's in denial. Circular I know, but it'll have to do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915131&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bgaYBRzip9Rt4OXxl6CmRl5vOS2veB0OmXGfD6hepj8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915131">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915132" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270229671"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sea ice is about average.</p> <p><a href="http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_stddev_timeseries.png">http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_stddev_timeser…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915132&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="POJ8GKint6omxBainAnU3bhygsM8y-5ZV1EasBjun9Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915132">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915133" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270229848"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i><br /> Sea ice is about average.</i></p> <p><a href="http://nsidc.org/data/seaiceindex/images/dailyimages/Nstddevtimeseries.png">http://nsidc.org/data/seaiceindex/images/dailyimages/Nstddevtimeseries…</a><br /></p> <p>Looks like someone needs to take "Geometry for Dummies". That's the class that covers things like area vs. volume...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915133&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jydgImJqGj2l9Wi-pEhaT6S3TaGGf-tFuGNLVcL8xQc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">caerbannog (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915133">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915134" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270230122"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Sea ice is about average."</p> <p>I said the volume and not extent of sea ice for a reason. Volume is what's important. Try to keep up! :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915134&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d8Fs9W5szI6yAkYmeXMsXwYAO9pdzdCXA3NOaLWafY8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915134">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915135" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270230194"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Last time I checked, all 50 glaciers in New Zealand are growing and I have a long list of others around the world if you want to see.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915135&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="irVLhNLe70JuQ3z7ukhh603rqcJzBUuhoqC8HqTbeJY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915135">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915136" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270231006"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>el gordo, all your posts are plain out stupid.</p></blockquote> <p>Or brilliant. He sure keeps y'all busy, gotta admit that, no?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915136&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7s8qSL1JTZQqDsT3iIL6xaZ6IUv-KZhleRbYqQ__aPE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dhogaza (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915136">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915137" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270231177"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh criminy El Gords, you even fail at cherry picking. It took me two minutes to find out that, for example, New Zealand's Tasman Glacier is <a href="http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle=tasman-glacier-retreat-extreme-23-04-2008"> rapidly retreating</a>. This is not offered as evidence of climate change one way or the other, only that El Gordo is wrong. Again.</p> <p>So, you have a list of advancing glaciers. Good for you. Do you also, for the sake of balance, have a list of retreating glaciers? Or a <a href="http://www.geo.unizh.ch/wgms/mbb/mbb11/Fig2.jpg"> handy chart of cumulative mass balance from the World Glacier Monitoring Service</a>?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915137&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Wu2lpV8u_5X2lCthp67JYLbWdMUa0ykCDT5-Hi5zz_Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915137">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915138" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270231498"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Last time I checked, all 50 glaciers in New Zealand are growing and I have a long list of others around the world if you want to see."</p> <p>Check again.<br /><a href="http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/news/all/glaciers-continue-to-shrink2">http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/news/all/glaciers-continue…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915138&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ImxKWAdQk6CVnO1suB2o5-voy7AebSSo5PquDyb54RY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915138">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915139" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270232058"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sea Ice: ok, it's my fault. I predicted that the artic sea ice had reached its maxiumum extent after the first week in March; and look what happened. BTW I'm also a Cubs Fan(Chicago baseball team that hasn't won the series since 1908). My dad swears they lose because I watch their games. He's probably right. I think it has something to do with the Hymenberg Principle. You know, watching something affects it like how long it takes a kettle to boil.</p> <p>At any rate, the maximum artic sea ice aerial extent is very subject to which way the wind blows (not as much the minimum, esp. the extreme minimums we've been seeing recently). As soon as that big chunk of floating mush breaks loose off Alaska (the one area that is seeing above average extent), the aerial extent will drop like a rock.</p> <p>Check out Cryosphere today for a better look at conditions other than total extent.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915139&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ELgJbY8ODGKdeYWetlvg1W_uZPGQrDt4T6WF-oeEHsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915139">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915140" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270232141"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is a seasonal factor, the high level of short-wave radiation in the summer months is responsible for the fast pace of glacier melt.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915140&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aj9CePkzift3hxa802qF5j7Oe6hlKvUaRq-ycLj2NPo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915140">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915141" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270232870"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt;Wrong. More of them are in the 1930s.</p> <p>Ahahahahaha!</p> <p>Ha!</p> <p>Hahaha!</p> <p>Someone has been reading Plimer's book*. And believing it. How hilarious is that? Look, 1934 was a little warmer than 1998 <i>for the USA only</i>. Globally the last 10 years have been much warmer than the 1930s. </p> <p>I know it's difficult for some people to grasp, but the USA â  the whole world.</p> <p>*Or some other equally unreliable source.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915141&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aDEkg3oDGsbLBUwNWhHSf6NHZebDHvha_yfLAP7X7U8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915141">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915142" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270233021"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><blockquote>Which is why 9 of the 10 warmest years on record all date after 1998. Thanks for playing anyway.</blockquote> <p>Wrong. More of them are in the 1930s.</p></blockquote> <p>That's easy enough to <a href="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/">check</a>, and it appears that you are the one who is wrong. Not just slightly, but wildly wrong. Not a single year in the 1930s was warmer than any year since 1998.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915142&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UFEKYvxHSe8k4g5CUAGVmRsu60QSLZypT8fURHnNN2A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pandasthumb.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve Reuland (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915142">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915143" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270233046"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Wrong. More of them are in the 1930s."</p> <p>Nonsense. None of the years from the 1930's is warmer than *any* year in the last few decades. You're thinking of US temps, which only describe 2% of the Earth's surface. All ten of the warmest years on record globally have been from 1998 on, and are roughly about a half a degree C above any year from the 1930's. No wonder you like McIntyre's website; you're used to sloppy arguments being applauded. Welcome to the real world.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915143&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dy6kyCsVTfJkCSNYZdtNF_MRebadg2byq-WBhFUJ28w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915143">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915144" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270233255"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sea ice volume, average thickness and multi-year ice cover are all on <a href="http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/22/thin-ice-arctic-winds-sea-ice-extent-global-warming/">significant declining trends</a>, despite occasional small rises from year to year.</p> <p>Yes, winds certainly affect it...but winds affect it much more strongly if the ice is thin and multi-year ice less common.</p> <p>And note that feet on the ... er, ice ... have discovered a form of ice that shows up on remote sensors like known forms, but is much less substantial than they are. This could mean remote measurements are currently biased too high :-(</p> <p>I'm sure we covered this a couple of weeks ago, but the goldfish keep orbiting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915144&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x7BAjUpbELhXU-t92zwxjXKt0COh2Mo0haNWur4fB4o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915144">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915145" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270233639"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm almost convinced that Fatso is a Poe, spouting the silliest of the Denialati tripe, in order that the rest of us demonstrate how easily such nonsense is refuted.</p> <p>Most of the time his denialist memes are so flimsy that one does not even need to hit the primary literature (or wander to one's local university library if one is not academically-connected). The answers are [easy to find using the electronic smart-arse](<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Glacier_Mass_Balance_Map.png">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Glacier_Mass_Balance…</a>)...</p> <p>Interestingly, where one would expect glacier mass to increase, as warming increases precipitation more than it increases melting (after all, many places around the planet that are warming are <i>still colder</i> than the melting point of ice), one observes such mass accumulation. These regions are minor in comparison to those demonstrating mass loss though, and New Zealand doesn't seem to be one of the former...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915145&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TMcJnBuFKgxMD9gC2k4mkjMFPQ-Rj1HmW-Qx10ZIwnE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915145">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915146" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270233904"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The question is asked:</p> <p><i>What is the optimal temperature of the planet?</i></p> <p>The answer, of course, depends on your value system. If you are a penguin, you'd probably want rather cold temperatures. If you live in a coastal delta or a coral atoll, you'd definitely consider any increase in temperature to be very, very bad; on the other hand, if you own a lot of real estate positioned just <b>just a bit higher</b> such land, then you would prefer increases in temperature, because they would increase the value of your land by making it beachfront property. If you live in the tropics at an altitude greater than 2 meters, you really don't care. If you live in the far north, you probably don't want to see any warming, because the destruction of the permafrost will make all your existing buildings unstable. </p> <p>There will be winners and losers from climate change. But the overall result for most of humanity is that increases in temperature will diminish global GDP by about 3% by the year 2100. That in turn should pretty well cancel any growth.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915146&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Lj2ssnzSSKLJ_84rEe-guw4IxTkgq07_jviLYmJ1ZVE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915146">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915147" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270234443"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt;That's weather not climate. Oh, wait...you're a Warmista...It's okay then.</p> <p>Yep. And you're a moronic troll. Glad we understand each other.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915147&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xVoEw9tWZg0w-SsZfHohRCz6i-KFeTS4bCHsuWq9DB4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915147">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915148" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270234463"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I said,<br /> "Globally the last 10 years have been much warmer than the 1930s."<br /> McIntyre's Myrmidon said,<br /> "That's weather not climate. Oh, wait...you're a Warmista...It's okay then."</p> <p>It's a fact - no year in the 1930's was even close to being as warm as any year in the last few decades. You said that more years in the 1930's were warmer than those in the last 10 years. That's simply nonsense. Now you are flailing away with gibberish about climate vs weather. You made the claim about the 1930's having more years in the top ten than the last ten years do. Put up or shut up. Which years in the 1930's were they, and show your evidence.<br /> PS: US temps are not global temps.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915148&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I2jvgH9CNRWtsXMdlMUTGENYnk5vAzkK6I-yCFgopBA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Murphy (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915148">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915149" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270234689"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@"The Planet Has Been Cooling Since 1998" (feel free to change that title to reflect reality any time):</p> <blockquote><p>What is the optimal temperature of the planet?</p></blockquote> <p>There are a host of reasons why this question is - to put it politely - redundant. The planet has no universal optimal temperature. Optimal for what particular species or ecosystem? Optimal for which of Earth's many human communities? Aside from which, it's the rate of divergence from a temperature we are already adapted to that is the issue, it's not a question (yet, and hopefully not for a long time in the future) of absolute temperatures.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915149&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eiarXdUAVvHFQIKOG8iBg_rvew_b3mweRC0Ns0qWR48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915149">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915150" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270234711"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>BJ</p> <p>Just wanted to get the conversation back to climate and away from political science.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915150&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r1wFkOc7s2zaMiwB0-XjqMA1Ej1c8TUExzW2_4avAL0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915150">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915151" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270235804"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Any suggestions for the anomaly in the Gulf of Mexico?</p> <p><a href="http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom.html">http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom.html</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915151&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XZ4EPWm-KdHm3o8h3iw5bJpe2tRLCKjTWSlcDR1gn5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915151">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915152" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270236524"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>What is the optimal temperature of the planet?</p> <p>Posted by: The Planet Has Been Cooling Since 1998 | April 2, 2010 8:18 PM</p></blockquote> <p>This, by the way, is Global Warming is a Scam, also long banned at <i>Pharyngula</i> (for insipidity). One of the most tedious trolls ever to darken the face of the internet. He hasn't been here before?</p> <p>I recommend termination with <i>extreme</i> prejudice.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915152&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5D7u1It8NDlPtqV783OxjinHYC0MAl9eakUDatrrKM0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://saltycurrent.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SC (Salty Current) (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915152">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915153" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270237662"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>re: Optimal temperatures<br /> Try another answer:</p> <p>There is a narrow band of temperatures for the last 2000 years, and an even narrower band for the last 500, when most of the infrastructure for current human civilization has been built. It assumes rainfall patterns, river flows, plant and animal breeding, and sea level, and those things help determine where people live. It's not that that any temperature is optimal, it's that pour infrastructure and agriculture are built assuming a big thermostat.</p> <p>Departing very far in *either* direction is going to be very expensive for human civilization, especially those countries blessed with long low coastlines (which tend to help countries be rich, given efficient water transport).<br /> Put another way: the USA should hate AGW, but Russia has to love it: they might eventually lose St. Petersburg, but they generally don't have a high percentage of people on the coast, and less ice in the Arctic is great for them.</p> <p>Sea-level rise takes a while, but moving rainfall from places already dry to places already wet shows up much earlier. Most developed-world people aren't farmers or they would worry a lot more about this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915153&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mjWhE3HpWeCLPzHlz37GxiQjYffFjOQopRP79KyvblI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Mashey (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915153">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915154" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270239911"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No SH hurricane trend, so we can assume this is the result of global warming.</p> <p><a href="http://www.worldclimatereport.com/">http://www.worldclimatereport.com/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915154&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7oc6cBYb1jpLlK-8QrhPdnpoyIGvsknQHellIDfZZjs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915154">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915155" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270240848"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>SC:<br /> &gt;He hasn't been here before?</p> <p>Yes, [here](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/02/open_thread_22.php#comment-1420475">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/02/open_thread_22.php#comment-1420…</a>), [here](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/03/its_always_bad_news_for_the_ip.php#comment-2356051">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/03/its_always_bad_news_for_the_ip…</a>) (where he was disemvoweled) and probably [here](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/12/russian_analysis_confirms_20th.php#comment-2180339">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/12/russian_analysis_confirms_20th…</a>).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915155&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Beq03vbPeEDTtPDtIV1HhlnQQ66aKgQFGoZcxhVVO04"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave R (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915155">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915156" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270244122"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The "ideal temperature" bit is one of Plimer's talking points, and [Tim had a sensible answer several months ago](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/10/i_must_be_psychic_2.php">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/10/i_must_be_psychic_2.php</a>): "Unless you are a dinosaur or something, it's the temperature we had when we built our current civilization." [John Mashey's post](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#c2398843">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#c2398…</a>) explains why.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915156&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ngQzVxAqB4o74tTqd7G8mB7YWjNfKtlPukHSS7RaGqs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mekong.net" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bruce Sharp (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915156">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915157" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270247144"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, Bruce, many denialists are dinosaurs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915157&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tqw-arnnyRu6qUe7Ad7vIMIkUHz5gOA_egW9nJ7P76k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915157">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915158" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270251604"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From the report:</p> <p>"In the context of the sharing of data and methodologies, we consider that Professor Jonesâs actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community.[hiding data] It is not standard practice in climate science to publish the raw data and the computer code in academic papers. However, climate science is a matter of great importance and the quality of the science should be irreproachable. We therefore consider that climate scientists should take steps to make available all the data that support their work (including raw data) and full methodological workings (including the computer codes). Had both been available, many of the problems at UEA could have been avoided."</p> <p>Sounds like peer reviewed data without the peers.... "It is not standard practice in climate science to publish the raw data and the computer code in academic papers".....</p> <p>Climate 'science' is a hoax.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915158&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lB8ET8pYViYiJEODPL3kPmnBd4KuCmunlG1Bic5B4CU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915158">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915159" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270252654"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>BTW none of Jones' work is repeatable [as he hides his data because his dog chewed it up], therefore, if it is not repeatable by independent review, it is not science.</p> <p>Please change to 'Jones found to have hidden data, denialists vindicated.'</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915159&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tviZM7TdDHWg2J0YGjx-_OXUlRBZ7mkuRXDNL9YlP1Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915159">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915160" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270252920"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The denier above, who if he actually has a phd has it in marketing and baraminology from the back of a box of Cheerios, wants us to call him names, instead of using the accurate term denier.</p> <p>Well, yes, we do believe he's also LYING, but the denier part is the most obvious and provable.</p> <p>As for us being low lives, we're the ones that have consistently taken the high road. And we'll stay on that road while the Morlocks sharpen their pieces of metal and glower through the darkness at us.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915160&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s1EjDarjTiwdghBVYq7JrWmIRQ93JoCTbIJuh8ur1CU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marion Delgado (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915160">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915161" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270253877"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@108 A lot of deniers are also neo-cons so how about the term 'denio-con'?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915161&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4G3Su5BoPEJ-kBIqcBp_oj0s1hhrOwW4dXFlFpVP9eE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Think Big (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915161">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915162" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270257370"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@109,119. Actually, since "climategate" there has been an avalanche of raw data and computer code released. Well, a lot of it was already on the web anyway but nothing exists in denialiati-world unless it is placed 2 inches under their nose, and even then they sometimes need instructions on how to find it (makes me wonder how they get to the loo sometimes).</p> <p>We are <i>all waiting patiently</i> - very patiently indeed - for the comprehensive data analyses to come churning out from climate sceptics.</p> <p>Any day now.......yep.......it'll be here soon......(sound of crickets chirping, leaves rustling).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915162&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lcHpPVCsRQ5G6qeZC7QauiyV6AOzmZ-wGEL31WM1NsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915162">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915163" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270257692"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, that was aimed at 109,110 obviously. "Only computer geeks rely on computer models".</p> <p>Oh by the way, I like your pseudonym. Flown in a plane recently? There is a reason I ask that question, which the more astute people on this blog will fully understand. I don't want to go through how things like airliners and a myriad of other things are designed and their predicted properties figured out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915163&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="66H9dUIoehQkwlPmWOwt1pKihFHZHhXnJwaFq68YnrE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915163">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915164" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270259522"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mk,y hxrs hv bn cght t hdng dt, s chll t!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915164&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hvrKnAY1OYK4ffaMDpymSSrFOp-aHfihSMflA8RVMfI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915164">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915165" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270260063"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>'No other branch of science is as politically charged. A religious war is raging between alarmists and skeptics, and it threatens to consume levelheaded climatologists. But it is a critical conflict, because it revolves around something as massive as the total restructuring of industrial society, a venture that will cost trillions of euros. Powerful economic interests and unshakeable fundamental beliefs come into play.'</p> <p>Spiegel Online</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915165&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Oksg6jXT2fFDaeSZMRx8RkNMmKe94WNSyefHZDuuvEM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915165">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915166" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270260116"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The claim that Jones' work is not repeatable I presume refers to the CRU / Hadley temperature time series. This claim is quite weird.</p> <p>If you compare UAH to Hadley temperature timeseries you will notice that their trends are quite similar. As well if you compare the temperatures for January and February for this year you will find that UAH values are: 0.613 and 0.720 while the CRU / Hadley values are: 0.495 and 0.460. Does this mean that Spencer and Christie are also involved in the Grand Conspiracy? (I expect that everyone who comes to this blog know that Spencer and Christie are "skeptics".)</p> <p>The fact that CRU / Hadley is just one of five termperature groups that come up with similar results seems to make clear that Jones' results are quite repeatable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915166&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cmDzz_lLgMVqGAlJatfURTwTlfhAjL2YdUilE7mh7zQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://steve-marg.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve S (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915166">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915167" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270260378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models:</p> <p>Phil Jones hid data! Phil Jones hid data! Phil Jones hid data! And even if Phil Jones didn't hide data, he would've analysed the data to form, Heaven forbid, <b>computer models</b>, so whether or not he hid data, he's still wrong.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915167&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lvaiVjzPxNgnc1z5XlHrJBgaiQH_bhX_2cIPQqSJZlc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915167">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915168" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270260498"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter el gordo:</p> <p>Here's an opinion piece on climate science saying that there are a lot of opinion pieces on climate science.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915168&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fwCtvKH0sZ2k3Z2CeXG4pb6md-w711xyNG-H1Sbxw6I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915168">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915169" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915169&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kLbiUdR3TG6i25NMKmiz_gxi2sgZ3V_neZJDjLg-deI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915169">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915170" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270262822"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Computer Geek,<br /> Your comment "repeating a hoax 5 times doesn't make it science" shows how deeply you are into delusion. </p> <p>Let me get this clear, you seem to be saying that all of the five groups developing temperature timeseries are hoaxing the climate data. Two of the groups use satelites to determine global temperatures and three of them use surface measurement. So the evidence of warming comes from two quite different methods. Your claim that these groups are involved in a hoax includes Spencer and Christie, who are two of the very small number of "skeptics" who are actively researching. </p> <p>I am sure Spencer and Christie they would be very interested in that claim. Please go over the Spencer's site (<a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/">http://www.drroyspencer.com/</a>) and tell him that, and then come back here and inform us of his reply.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915170&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6IxHqpQ3InDdxVtKV--e8A_HY2RQn54keimrkSEpOKM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://steve-marg.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve S (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915170">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915171" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270264392"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The comment that I was replying to from Computer Geek, seems to have been corrupted. The statement "repeating a hoax 5 times doesn't make it science" was in the comment before it became corrupted.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915171&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gVYo9UGxj9Arqo6mPUH59okKIH8GVDyIvLE6xeIpIWo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve S (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915171">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915172" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270264474"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Read what you quoted yourself, Computer Geeks.</p> <blockquote><p>"It is not standard practice in climate science to publish the raw data and the computer code in academic papers."</p></blockquote> <p>No it isn't. It never has been. It still isn't. Publishing the raw data with the papers is not standard practice in many (most in fact, I think) areas of science. The data is held by the people who did the research. To get it and check it, you either ask them nicely for it, or you go to their website where you often find it anyway.</p> <p>Now that it actually <i>is</i> available to anyone, which part of "We are all waiting patiently - very patiently indeed - for the comprehensive data analyses to come churning out from climate sceptics" did you not understand?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915172&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hz8jJnMDONOz6TDOjEqPdURV8EQfq-QcGn8zmBcl66I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Other Mike (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915172">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915173" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270265582"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Censoring dissenters wont make you fraudulent commies bastards right, obviously the truth hurts doesn't it hoaxers? I rest my case and am out of here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915173&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JOAsJe2ub6bfwiG8s2rGlhwV--6UPNrQpWSDMyeljUA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models:">Only Computer … (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915173">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915174" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270266992"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter Only Computer Geeks rely on computer models:</p> <p>Phil Jones hid data! <i>Phil Jones hid data!</i> PHIL JONES HID DATA! <b>PHIL JONES HID DATA!!! <i>PHIL JONES HID DATA!!!!!!</i></b> I'M SHOUTING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS, SO I'M OBVIOUSLY TELLING THE TROOF!!! THE TROOF!!! AND YOU HATE THE TROOF!!!! THE TROOF!!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915174&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wHxPyBS6a5jcOO1mYCv2yKa7SCwcIzlPjOfdqhCsoZE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915174">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915175" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270267119"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Steve S:</p> <p>Lambert moderated the troll's comment by disemvowelling it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915175&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="q_FjHXI4veXiwDK07xNTVj9jYrx7UHabktvF3gxq50E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915175">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915176" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270267512"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>[Steve S](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#comment-2399248">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#comme…</a>).</p> <p>Computer Creep's comments were <i>disemvowelled</i> rather than becoming corrrupted. Tim Lambert has a high patience threshold for trolls, but that one is plain ga-ga in the alfoil-hat conspiracy-under-the-bed mould, and I'd say that Tim decided enough was enough.</p> <p>Although having said that, Computer Creep's comments <i>were</i> intellectually corrupt from the first key-stroke, so in a manner of speaking you were correct anyway...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915176&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xpib6Ro6LX1kyHhGXvWGxv7w4GdCbPDTqWsXsduTWMs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915176">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915177" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270267663"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hmmm...</p> <p>Good riddance to [intellectual rubbish](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#comment-2399261">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#comme…</a>).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915177&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UpYpHMeVTHkWByfsZrNnxoVw4CZVt5OeXLQTWs369A8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915177">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915178" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270268728"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>112 Think Big,</p> <p>Denialists are usually idiots, so they are <b>denidiots</b>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915178&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FrjCBSJNHEx7H_hD6aENI2SzXftF3l_GiQ_ys3YeqeQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TrueSceptic (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915178">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915179" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270272964"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt; you fraudulent commies bastards right</p> <p>There's another common trait among the denialati - good, old-fashioned McCarthyism. </p> <p>Keep checking under the bed, guys...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915179&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oEnkd9SaQDTB_2uVgSOucvSfc9wS3NP3lc_4p4a12X4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Neil (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915179">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915180" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270273141"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>129: "Denialists are usually idiots, so they are denidiots."</p> <p>Denidiots and, all too often, cliars too...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915180&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="949GNh9VihnIv_cK10bB1BmB6kTr8zQ9Mi-ZWfqtFis"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Zibethicus (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915180">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915181" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270281609"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>el gordo, the Spiegel article is ridiculously bad researched. It's an assembly of talking points with a von Storch garnish.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915181&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nye0OlLSy1t1h4wvTJ6KqDfBZbvA7izh5BsYD7lNIng"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris From Europe (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915181">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915182" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270281714"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>[Dave R](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#comment-2398902">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/04/phil_jones_vindicated.php#comme…</a>).</p> <p>You can add [the comment](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/bad_news_sea_level_rise_may_be.php#comment-2324506">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/bad_news_sea_level_rise_may_be…</a>) from the "Bad news: sea level rise may be worse than we thought" thread to the list.</p> <p>This is a particularly stupid and learning-recalcitrant troll. He has had his nose repeatedly rubbed in his ignorance, but he continues to shit in the same place. Even a puppy learns from his mistakes - although the nose-rubbing technique is not the way to go... Unfortunately, <i>nothing</i> works with this Denialatus.</p> <p>Obviously, he's only here to push his own bee-in-bonnet deception. Shame that it hasn't worked.</p> <p>0 out of 10, pygmy troll. Absolute fail. Do not pass go, do not collect even one penny.</p> <p>And as this seems to be the week for nacent words, suck on this - tloosser.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915182&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VqABNAjGVS7HkgJRI6GMVby_Fqono5h0S4j8v0ORXiM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915182">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915183" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270300553"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><b>#96 (Bernard J)</b></p> <blockquote><p>I'm almost convinced that Fatso is a Poe, spouting the silliest of the Denialati tripe, in order that the rest of us demonstrate how easily such nonsense is refuted.</p></blockquote> <p>I've been convinced of that for quite some time, which is why I normally ignore his comments. He's like comedy performance art, whether intentional or not.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915183&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pYqZGNzF1cel8_d1vxI6ImaCjNgzH0MvMzgYlryu8kc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">pough (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915183">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915184" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270320440"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>el gordo, this statement:</p> <blockquote><p>But it is a critical conflict, because it revolves around something as massive as the total restructuring of industrial society, a venture that will cost trillions of euros.</p></blockquote> <p>is likely true (on a global scale) - but not necessarily in the way that Der Spiegel wants you to focus on. </p> <p>If we screw up the environment and our ecosystem - i.e. if we move them away from the normal parameters of variation and degrade the relatively reliable natural services against which we have optimised our industrial societies over the last several hundred years - then it will likely prove f**king expensive to restructure society to try and accomodate. And if it's an outcome towards the bad end of the possibility scale, then that cost will not only be measured in money but in lives.</p> <p>Changing from a cheap-carbon-based economy to one that is less likely to violate the assumptions we have built into the structure of our societies may prove to be a bargain in comparison.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915184&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xbDN7E6D4WYwz_mkNtzAEqf755EX64gZoOujy4sM3p4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 03 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915184">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915185" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270553363"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>[Monbiot's latest comment on the climate emails controversy](<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/06/climate-change-emails-science-humanities?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/06/climate-change-emai…</a>).</p> <p>Petty, small-minded nonsense. Which is a shame, because there is a very good point resting somewhere in there about the futility of an arbitrary arts-science divide.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915185&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-KxAbR6cfvfsdrf5EpI0gTH0qZatv1OWiPGkFbgwTc8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 06 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915185">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915186" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270568602"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Monbiot saying sorry would go a long way to rebuilding his credibility. Did CRU, UEA and Phil Jones make a total mess of things? Yes. Did Phil Jones really deserve Monbiot's wish to see him sacked? No.<br /> And I notice that the spurious FOI requests from crackpots and reasonable requests interested in government affairs are treated in the same way by Monbiot, when he must know that they very different. This looks like a very small walkback indeed. On the other hand, Fred Pearce seems to have decided that being hostile is at least consistant, if wrong.</p> <p>Monbiot writes about Simon Lewis and the ST - where is the mention of Deltoid? David Adams should have a word...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915186&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JoHsEftlEw6a0cn2_m6OTHRMY0hoeMHZU_9OHlpgJ4k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeB (not verified)</span> on 06 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915186">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915187" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270689155"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bud &amp; Mike B (136,137): I was one of those who, early on, lined up (at deltoid and in private email) behind Monbiot's call for Jones's resignation. Now, having familiarised myself a little more with the mails and having seen the wash-up, I regret that I did. It is amusing to me that Monbiot's column (Bud's link) itself links to a column (Easterbrook) and comment, much of which is critical of Monbiot himself. While I retain respect for George, and still think he wiped the floor with Plimer, I cannot help thinking now that he went too far in calling for Jones's resignation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915187&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9yJesSaKRRLcL5hfdGiZvh2rHba4jjuV2Nmi8nH1B1g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">peterd (not verified)</span> on 07 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915187">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915188" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915188&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XJODvDn46zro_fZxWbk1k1vU3qHswrOSRKpcZ-JqHII"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915188">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915189" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915189&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nCmT2N_0krEvNGd42-4arnZwXkKzSJUqAqPxpYwZvjM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915189">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915190" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915190&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hYv7i5UCOalqmf865iUbLG2ZG3ovBDklz2bnqBE-4f8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915190">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915191" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915191&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vr_1lWZ17xjgxOSdLO9v91S8Ai18qm1emKrJEjerD3s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915191">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915192" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915192&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="T9jSspCHLhr6EMInksB90xGiltA2MHP6iDIKQzx0sj0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915192">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915193" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915193&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YdmGEQQ2-ic7EdsJyIznSGjI-C0lucmNa_xKOE9Tae4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915193">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915194" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1291027727"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt; I cannot help thinking now that he went too far in calling for Jones's resignation. </p> <p>Because, as a Journalist, George was heavily invested in FOIA and any perception that either it should or could be avoided was like talking about paedophiles to the dad of a 5 year old girl.</p> <p>Knee-jerk city.</p> <p>He has had time to view the facts and recanted the calls to get Jones sacked, but hasn't yet said that he over-reacted himself.</p> <p>However, I don't expect George to be a saint, nor to be right 100% of the time.</p> <p>I do expect him to own up to his own mistakes and take responsibility. He's a grown up now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915194&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aUMK4CSUTvtvyScafAOnbnpNygwUmbTDi4k9TMfyC4c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wow (not verified)</span> on 29 Nov 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915194">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915195" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915195&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I6odV5owWiXUHAQwnsqKzl_lenbIVs6RgKEsyNs5oVU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915195">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915196" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915196&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dgzw4Do8Wy5jCDsgzza_3p5TxhERZdsdHpk39DjXp_Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915196">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915197" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915197&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zj2kubetW6vifxwRgNGc_xU7g0Qql5M4ZcXq1gxImhA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915197">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915198" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915198&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M8TRPk9IapKVYEaz8yDLoHN9KUR-HHeraptQfdwUsk0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915198">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915199" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915199&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ujod7tYdgGeDdrYWWcW5WDDywq7bWTNCxiueRjJD2Kc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915199">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915200" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915200&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_Ycg8cRHWMp-G_Bs9JKNmH94LTOEl2KpR3LgpU80gAc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915200">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915201" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915201&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="p2yVzWXWuj2q08EpwKXOKLyZzUui6gXNfHwPFhrdXfw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915201">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915202" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915202&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s2Hm91gkNBqxgBb4yGf4eNerVLMBJkYp_X2SHKw15Pg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915202">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-915203" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1270261367"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Th fct tht CR / Hdl s jst n f fv trmprtr grps tht cm p wth smlr rslts sms t mk clr tht Jns' rslts r qt rptbl." rptng hx tms dsn't mk t scnc. Rd th rprt stv; "t s nt stndrd prctc n clmt scnc t pblsh th rw dt nd th cmptr cd n cdmc pprs." Clmt scntsts r nt scntsts th r hxrs, f th hd thr dt t s nt scnc. Pls chng th ttl t dnlsts vndctd.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=915203&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ugsYLUSdfAT0zZu2wyXb5Pk06N8I9S_W87ifpn84Uzw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Computer Geeks rely on computer models">Computer Geeks… (not verified)</span> on 02 Apr 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-915203">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/deltoid/2010/04/01/phil-jones-vindicated%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:11:26 +0000 tlambert 16757 at https://scienceblogs.com The Economist calls a lie a lie https://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/26/the-economist-calls-a-lie-a-li <span>The Economist calls a lie a lie</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p><em>The Economist</em> <a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/02/climategate_distortions/">tells it like it is</a></p> <blockquote><p>This led to a Daily Mail headline reading: "Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995."</p> <p>Since I've advocated a more explicit use of the word "lie", I'll go ahead and follow my own advice: that Daily Mail headline is a lie. Phil Jones did not say there had been no global warming since 1995; he said the opposite. He said the world had been warming at 0.12°C per decade since 1995. However, over that time frame, he could not quite rule out at the traditional 95% confidence level that the warming since 1995 had not been a random fluke.</p> <p>Anyone who has even a passing high-school familiarity with statistics should understand the difference between these two statements. At a longer time interval, say 30 or 50 or 100 years, Mr Jones could obviously demonstrate that global warming is a statistically significant trend. In the interview he stated that the warming since 1975 is statistically significant. Everyone, even climate-change sceptics, agrees that the earth has experienced a warming trend since the late 19th century. But if you take any short sample out of that trend (say, 1930-45 or 1960-75), you might not be able to guarantee that the particular warming observed in those years was not a statistical fluke. This is a simple truth about statistics: if you measure just ten children, the relationship between age and height might be a fluke. But obviously the fact remains that older children tend to be taller than younger ones, and if you measure 100 of them, you'll find the relationship quite statistically significant indeed.</p> <p>What's truly infuriating about this episode of journalistic malpractice is that, once again, it illustrates the reasons why the East Anglia scientists adopted an adversarial attitude towards information management with regard to outsiders and the media. They were afraid that any data they allowed to be characterised by non-climate scientists would be vulnerable to propagandistic distortion. And they were right.</p> </blockquote> <!--more--><p>Meanwhile here in Australia look what <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/04/a_new_flavour_of_global_warmin.php">IPA</a> executive director John Roskam <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s2820346.htm">said on national TV</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>You had, the other day, one of the leading climate change scientists in the world say the world hasn't warmed since 1995.</p> </blockquote> <p>That is a lie.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/tlambert" lang="" about="/author/tlambert" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tlambert</a></span> <span>Fri, 02/26/2010 - 06:18</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/john-roskam" hreflang="en">John Roskam</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910841" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267185043"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It would surely be too difficult to actually link to the original BBC source</p> <p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm</a></p> <p>and mention what Phil Jones actually said, right?</p> <p>BBC - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming?</p> <p>Phil Jones - Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910841&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Hdf92ANTRoDSSXM1zJGpxt3PTYXnsydpR18C0TadHf4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://motls.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LuboÅ¡ Motl (not verified)</a> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910841">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910842" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267185921"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks Lubos! That quote very clearly proves that the Daily Mail lied. Or at least that they don't understand statistics, and that they think that if one doesn't understand a term one can just leave it out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910842&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YQCLHac2bX4JR4P6NAwEEtnCtQsQPKVnY6x-BUKphz8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lars Karlsson (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910842">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910843" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267186656"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos approves the lie. </p> <p>i am not surprised.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910843&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NsGDgq5dSUYu6fpm0Oir8RuJd9yWRO8npjIzUdNGlO4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sod (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910843">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910844" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267186846"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos - to be fair, everyone and all their dogs will have seen the Phil Jones interview by now. Lars Karlsson is right, though, that it proves the linked article correct.</p> <p>Put it another way, which of the following statements is true:</p> <p>a) There has been a rise in temperature between 1995 and the present.</p> <p>b) There has been no change in temperature between 1995 and the present.</p> <p>c) There has been a decline in temperature between 1995 and the present.</p> <p>If you cannot answer either a, b, or c with any degree of confidence, then the wrong question is being asked.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910844&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BVEOyVyMMWf-cmx39eH6vv-hj6kV-mSZmKQpw96sK1k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910844">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910845" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267187275"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow, those are fighting words. Excellent, bravo, here, here! Thank God someone out there with influence and the public ear have gotten it right for once.</p> <p>Kudos to The Economist. We need to support this journalist. The Economist have actually done a really good job reporting on AGW and the CRU hack since last November-- they have been balanced and clearly done their research.</p> <p>Can't Jones sue the Mail for libel?</p> <p>PS: The embedded video is brilliant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910845&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7CewA6ctot65liE5vMP4TsX7ZzCE9u8aE-N9jImL_fM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910845">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910846" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267188282"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos, what's your point exactly, could you be more explicit?</p> <p>Meanwhile, Lubos seems [fond](<a href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-probably-coldest-year-in-last.html">http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-probably-coldest-year-in-last.ht…</a>) of [making sense](<a href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-bad-year-for-climate-fearmongers.html">http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-bad-year-for-climate-fearmongers…</a>) out of [noise](<a href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/07/uah-june-2008-still-negative-anomaly.html">http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/07/uah-june-2008-still-negative-anomaly…</a>), yet seems all to ready to [vacuously opine on the irrelevance of statistically significant trends](<a href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-probably-coldest-year-in-last.html#comment-1416476472508187350">http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-probably-coldest-year-in-last.ht…</a>).</p> <p>This is a totally irrelevant observation, but if you google(.com) search 'Lubos Motl' with auto complete the fourth suggestion is interesting. I have no opinion on this matter either way.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910846&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FQbHJm_B6AqRf6X0CCutJ3KYPDNzA96TDxBJJ8eW9p4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul H (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910846">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267188322"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Daily Mail tries to make it up and overshoots :)</p> <p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1156023/Doomsday-How-4C-temperature-rise-century-change-world-recognition-threaten-human-survival.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1156023/Doomsday-How-4C-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xfUCKseUPlce78BSKBfC4XXotQK-uOqKH8t3Ie0t9gE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rocco (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267188950"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Speaking of distortion and all that, Roger Pielke Jr. translates a bit of a German interview with Mojib Latif where Latif is talking about fraud or something and it is implied in Pielke's post that Latif is accusing the IPPC of fraud; but Pielke does not clarify exactly who Latif thinks is doing the misrepresenting in "misrepresentation of the science of disasters and climate change".<br /><a href="http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/02/mojib-latif-on-zdf-fraud-to-public.html">http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/02/mojib-latif-on-zdf-fraud-to-p…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MEKidODl2jGuTF-dRXVw9nCjJKnxhZNoqhAU4y6Gkbc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Holly Stick (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267189965"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Unfortunately, it isn't just ignorant or tendentious journalists who confuse "not statistically significant" with "not true." Many peer reviewed scientific papers report "no association" when the p value is .06 or higher; whereas the observed association might be of a magnitude which is quite significant clinically or otherwise. This is a common dodge by which industry evades safety regulation, for example.</p> <p>We really need to get over this habit of dichotomizing "statistical significance" according to an arbitrary p value; instead we should just give the confidence intervals and decide how worried or pleased we ought to be about an observed association based on the particulars of the situation. If it's important to be more certain, go out and get a bigger sample -- or in this case wait a few years -- rather than announcing a negative finding.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910849&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="adHv97dBZbQzAZ5VwlCP8VurEvFlim-chVXrmAs6gyE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://healthvsmedicine.blogspot.com" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cervantes (not verified)</a> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910849">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910850" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267190470"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There's one subtle point that I think the Economist article misses:</p> <p>"But if you take any short sample out of that trend (say, 1930-45 or 1960-75), you might not be able to guarantee that the particular warming observed in those years was not a statistical fluke. "</p> <p>This is essentially true (when using 95% for "statistical fluke") if we only have one warming indicator. Jones was specifically referring to the HadCrut data. We also have GISS and NCDC, which I believe hit the 95% confidence for that interval. We also have independent satellite measurements, which probably have the same confidence level as HadCrut. We also have a significant net depletion in global glaciers. We also have ocean heat content (at all levels) rising during this period. While HadCrut alone might have around a 5-10% of having an actual trend of 0 per decade (or 0.24 per decade) during this period. What are the odds of all of the data being wrong in one direction? It seems when combining all independent measures, it would be virtually certain of warming since 1995.</p> <p>The last paragraph nails it:</p> <p>"What's truly infuriating about this episode of journalistic malpractice is that, once again, it illustrates the reasons why the East Anglia scientists adopted an adversarial attitude towards information management with regard to outsiders and the media. They were afraid that any data they allowed to be characterised by non-climate scientists would be vulnerable to propagandistic distortion. And they were right."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910850&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iYiSTA5PK4tmbZuj341OlDalRgL9uK6mKL74iCPaubA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkB (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910850">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910851" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267192957"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Actually, statistically significant or not, warming <b>unequivocally did occur</b> over the period in question. In plain English, the earth was warmer at the end than it was at the beginning. The concept that applies here isn't really "statistical significance" at all -- it's just how often such a difference has been observed over similar periods in the recent past, or to put it another way, how unusual is this?</p> <p>Whether or not it's "statistically significant" is irrelevant to the question of whether or not it will continue; that all depends on why it happened. It's magnitude or how unusual it is might be evidence that applies to the question of "why" but as a mere isolated fact it doesn't tell us anything.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910851&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FpEYYKigvir5MGA81fK-oR8NVNPg2ATAwUSOpG52uyw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cervantes (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910851">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910852" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267195311"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@cervantes</p> <p>I'd shy away from that thinking, precisely because it is imprecise - it reminds me of the anti-AGW brigade claiming there had been cooling because 2008 was cooler than 1998 (in the HadCRU set).</p> <p>Two datapoints doth not a trend make, and there is too much noise to say that warming equivocally did occur - hence the need for statistical significance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910852&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kmeLrdV74eoryowqCiEWFPnAb7XT9aCHz6DekrnjXao"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910852">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910853" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267195599"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am not sure whether any of you understands basic science terminology, or whether you want to understand it, but if an observation extracted from the data is "not statistically significant", then it means that it's plausible or likely that it's fundamentally equal to zero and the observation was caused just by noise.</p> <p>That's the case of the warming since 1995, too. From the viewpoint of statistics, it doesn't exist. Building on a statistically insignificant trend would be exactly as illegitimate as building on a non-existent trend. So the statement that Jones said that there was no global warming since 1995 is not literally accurate, but it is surely more correct than the statement that he didn't say that there was no global warming since 1995.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910853&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Iq2Avs3YTovkF95ldGmmbQClfLcQI2AuHxgyTiQSiBM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://motls.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LuboÅ¡ Motl (not verified)</a> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910853">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910854" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267195866"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Funny, those in denial at the same time claim the CRU scientists 'fudged the warming', while also gladly accepting the fact that the warming trend in the CRU data for 1995-2009 is not statistically significant at the 95% level of confidence. WTF!? I wish that they would make up their damn minds.</p> <p>Also, if they toss CRU, then they are left with the warmer NASA GISS. Oh, and are we to believe that the Japanese Met Agency is also in on the "conspiracy"? </p> <p><a href="http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/gwp/gwp.html">http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/gwp/gwp.html</a></p> <p>Note even Inhofe and his ilk could fabricate such a conspiracy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910854&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TCzrlpxbVjsMRdkYC-QEqEcgMyNKE14E544JafYgZno"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910854">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910855" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267196261"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos #12 - thats funny, I could have sworn that Tim quoted an article which said </p> <p>"you might not be able to guarantee that the particular warming observed in those years was not a statistical fluke."</p> <p>which is effectively the same as your explanation regarding noise. Perhaps you would like to go and learn some science, or better, some reading comprehension?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910855&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KXHN4HU_reyOglqXKz9xbEFNcuyBZl2Q3iZVOeTzBqY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">guthrie (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910855">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910856" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267196454"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I am not sure whether any of you understands basic science terminology, or whether you want to understand it, but if an observation extracted from the data is "not statistically significant", then it means that it's <b>plausible or likely</b> that it's fundamentally equal to zero and the observation was caused just by noise.</p></blockquote> <p>Why don't you enlighten everyone on the traditional p-value at which it becomes "plausible" that the observation extracted from the data is "fundamentally equal to zero"? Seeing as we don't understand basic scientific terminology.</p> <p>Once you've done that, maybe you can explain the difference between "plausible", and "likely"?</p> <p>And maybe once you've done <i>that</i>, you can explain to us why it is appropriate to assert in a headline that a trend is equal or below to zero when the probability of that being the case is below 50%? Or 60%? Or 70%</p> <p>And finally, you could point to the assertion from any of us that any likely warming between the period 1995 to the present is either statistically significant or meaningful. Because otherwise, your criticism is unfounded.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910856&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="URXsWPU5By1LHdKlOn6DzyT1RC-L16GInydQYXerUZY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910856">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910857" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267196867"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos,</p> <p>Jones says that the positive trend is quite close to a 95% significance level. This means that there is only slightly more than a 5% probability that such a trend occurs out of chance.<br /> This is certainly not the same as saying that there is no global warming. I repeat, Jones did not say: "There has been no global warming since 1995".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910857&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4GqriLD_XaKzLgaZ1quEEerFh3aqaH3_5uWO4W8-l_4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lars Karlsson (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910857">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910858" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267197209"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Have any of you noticed the Institute of Physics response to 'Climategate'?</p> <p><a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/memo/climatedata/uc3902.htm">http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/mem…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910858&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5Hwdp3HzN4nqPfhtOtpN4neKewXESFVgVDrpRvhTlBI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910858">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910859" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267198026"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews - No. And a document making allegations such as theirs should provide evidence. It provided none.</p> <p>Disappointing, and raises questions over how they managed to arrive at this judgement.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910859&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S1zQ9PE2y-ceACYZCtgIuVwDV_77G_qRz6CmnNnM4as"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910859">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910860" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267198258"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bud, please don't feed the trolls.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910860&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_hDgQMW9KvzVelm0YpP9SUu8NVtu1kUNiaay3-yT37M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910860">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910861" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267198714"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I am not sure whether any of you understands basic science terminology, or whether you want to understand it, but if an observation extracted from the data is "not statistically significant", then it means that it's plausible or likely that it's fundamentally equal to zero and the observation was caused just by noise."</p> <p>No, that is not what it means. I certainly understand basic science terminology, I have a PhD which required me to study 5 semesters of statistics. The term "statistical significance" is properly applied to random sample data taken from a population with unknown parameters. It tests the probability that the sample does not resemble the population from which it is drawn. It is not about "noise" but rather about sampling error. In order for that to be meaningful you need to be testing some sort of association or comparison. </p> <p>It is generally said that an association or a difference is not "statistically significant" if that probably is greater than .05. However, such a difference is very probably real, it is not at all likely that it is the result of random sampling error. It's just that we have a priori set a high standard of what we need to be convinced. </p> <p>Computing the significance of changes over time is actually philosophically rather dodgy, because time series observations are probably not properly thought of as samples from a population. Years are ordered, they are not analogous to a bag full of black and white marbles. What we really have here with the earth is what is called a "within subjects design," with an N of 1 -- one earth. It is technically not possible to compute a p value for the difference between time 1 and time 2 in the standard sense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910861&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MLv-4HZ1epKSieebXX5TTnNLGuAugFVgez8PMzSBqdc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">cervantes (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910861">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910862" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267199212"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mapleleaf - touche! :)</p> <p>I think troll-feeding is a mood thing. Irritable mood = easily provoked. Mea Culpa.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910862&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FKY9xH1Qn6Llg6mNowXaQsFpOEj7sgUPpDUYAv-3W_s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910862">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910863" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267200472"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bud, no worries. I understand. And I have made that error too many times myself. Ugh.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910863&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wfVfV0KKRbfXlcP5EBMuV5yPf7PQoJsBWngAZwKvq4I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910863">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910864" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267201844"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bud,</p> <p>So,according to you, the UK Institute of Physics doesn't know how to respond to a specific inquiry?</p> <p>Quite breathtaking!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910864&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9Vji4ZVTMM429VJPUVUrYCPboOWTmA6KvdTl-wQzmxE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910864">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910865" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267201960"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dang, </p> <p>'enquiry'</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910865&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="C2UqMgWk9kR23ef-D2GjEnkj8LXZfGbQfYfinWQ_WMU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910865">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910866" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267203137"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The trolls will have nothing to say on the blatant lies, of which they approve, but seek to move onto newer mendacities.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910866&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9e_GvgB8qoK-fbP6236v19kwxvzEQ3e8kaB-O0K7vqk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910866">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910867" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267204357"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dave Andrews, did you even read the submission or did you just cut and paste it from climatefraudit?</p> <p>From the first sentence in the submission:</p> <blockquote><p>The Institute of Physics is a scientific charity</p></blockquote> <p>Sounds like a real hot bed of scientific endeavour.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910867&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0dDnsTdssVGit6_XLN2MzYPLdIRDf_mLGoinPY01mLk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ian Forrester (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910867">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910868" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267204726"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I sympathise with Bud. The trolls post up random stuff which they imply is some smoking-gun evidence of wrongdoing, yet when you read it, it generally says nothing of the sort and has been twisted totally out of context.</p> <p>It's very frustrating, and makes you want to let loose with both barrells.</p> <p>Most irritating of all - and a work colleague did this to me recently - is when they repeat stuff they obviously don't even understand. It's not the "understanding" as such (some of it is difficult to grasp without further reading and learning), but the fact they never bothered to try to understand it in the first place.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910868&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G-Eayc9FpWlAXwwZYppEmJwEreVClScR00fYTf3uyCg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Mike (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910868">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910869" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267205413"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>AGW is a sophisticated, yet inconclusive theory about our air con, within subjects design N of 1.</p> <p>Some characters connected to the IPCC oversimplified the message, the thermostat was on the blink and we needed to fix it fast.</p> <p>The masses, being extremely vulnerable to propaganda, accepted what was told them. I hear angular momentum is coming back in favor as the answer to everything climatic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910869&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Un9mKjUp0ptBPJMLOAdox-WRM7G-tagBM61PbFOSRxI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910869">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910870" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267206313"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The trolls seem to be more frequent, when something damning comes out against the liars, sorry, I mean, denialists, and that is often nowadays.</p> <p>Two of the three trolls here have said nothing about The Economist article, and one tried to but had to mangled/distort. The fact that the Economist has called the Daily Mail a liar is significant.</p> <p>Ignore the trolls, no matter how much they taunt you, b/c once you engage them, then they have a soap box and use you for leverage. I know, I have been baited more times than I wish to recall.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910870&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zKj36GCEJg5hxTW1-yWv-0dJt-OnZmYTlDSujXjx7jg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MapleLeaf (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910870">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910871" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267206429"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Andrew Bolt made the [very same misrepresentation](<a href="http://andrewboltliesdeceptionsonagw.wordpress.com/2010/02/14/not-unusual-not-the-hottest-not-still-warming/">http://andrewboltliesdeceptionsonagw.wordpress.com/2010/02/14/not-unusu…</a>).</p> <p>What a surprise.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910871&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uIdU8Z_WPvpqxdwkmKvtAzoQpYdwOGzxu4_eBCU2nu8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">BlueGreen (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910871">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910872" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267206502"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>El G,</p> <p>Why do you bother to regurgitate the mindless drivel that you do?</p> <p>It's clear you have no concept of why the theory is sound given all the available evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910872&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hdM5Ae7H7MHDZERBhsHpPLQemzDuVdLBJozd4xUmrDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">chek (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910872">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910873" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267207889"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The trolls are kept in thrall by "drama".</p> <p>Nov/Dec it was the fizzled out dud of 'climategate'.</p> <p>Dec/Jan it was the $50 million dollar "bounty" by that washed-up alleged ex-CIA sad-sack, that disappeared into the ether with nary a ripple.</p> <p>Jan/Feb it was Glaciergate and Pachuari Porngate.</p> <p>Feb/March it'll be Inhofe's virtual "indictments", and some other nonsense.</p> <p>It's no wonder dapielke's choose TV frontmen to present their "case". Infotainment for a TV-scheduled moronosphere is the arena they're engaging in.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910873&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X3Wb4t9Jg3CEsZG9YPVB2OgjT-8wntp79wDzbpaPLsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">chek (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910873">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267208097"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My only hope is that as the lies of the denialism boosters are increasingly called for what they are, even the more dense of the trolls like eg and DA will too embarrassed to dribble their inanities.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GFKdLSe-F_Lj49JU_1BYZhTFlOki7kX29zjxA81rF5E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267210374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Nearly everyone that's followed or dealt with Lubos is <i>not</i> trying to trade insults with him by saying he's unstable. Living proof that pseudonymity is not a prerequisite to incivility. However, I have to say that the post today was awesome, for LM, and while a little strange - as the next commenter said, it does make it clear that the headline was a lie, it obeyed all the norms of reasonable blog commenting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZMWSQ6R9GzFgxP7ZpZCzw0l2SDfHYKuF4bE3yUCjv6Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marion Delgado (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267210417"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A few observations:</p> <p>1.Does this same sense of outrage by alarmists apply when the headlines misrepresent in a direction they agree with? It should, bad media is bad media, yet we only see one side of it on this site and elsewhere. For example, headlines such as "U.N. Panel says Global Warming Man Made" would be a "lie", would it not? I recall many such headlines, however, I don't seem to recall any outrage from the likes of those in the "Jakerman Zone".</p> <p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL0160494020070202">http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL0160494020070202</a></p> <p>2.In the video, we see a brilliant example of staking wave distances as a simple minded way to explain rising confidence levels with larger sample sizes and time scales. Is the tide coming in or going out?<br /> After many samples, we can all say, with confidence, that the tide is coming in. The leap here, is when it is assumed the tide is coming in solely due to man, and that we can and must change the tides, lest they keep coming in, never to go out again...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lTkMLFMAuqcMnT4sxvw_Ht-f7LEWFQ2TWfKqJZLikuE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Betula (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267210700"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's probably just a coincidence, but temperatures seem to go through the roof in the early 1980's - just about the time they began to get rid of all those pesky stations.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sm50XF5MIqKHDHv-4x-wZ0sjLRESN_bL6pzS0ctBd8M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267211403"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe I'll take this up at proper length in my blog. In the mean time, I'll observe that statistical tests can give quite different answers depending on what prior claims about reality you start with.</p> <p>First, of course, Jones should not have answered regarding 15 year 'trend'. <a href="http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/2009/01/results-on-deciding-trends.html">You need 20-30 years to define a climate trend</a>. The trend over the last 20 (or 30, or 50, or 100) years is positive, and statistically significant versus the null hypothesis of the trend being zero.</p> <p>That's the second part of the story. In looking at the trend, is 'no trend' a sensible hypothesis to accept as your null? No. The 20 and 30 (and rest long enough to be climatically interesting) of trends ending in 1994 were all positive, and statistically significantly so.</p> <p>The proper null hypothesis to be looking at -- given that by 1995 there was extensive observation of a climate (20-30 year) warming trend is that the trend was the 0.15/decade (or whatever it was, I don't recall offhand) with error bars of thus and so.</p> <p>If you start from the null hypothesis that warming has continued as observed in the previous 20, 30, ... years, you will be unable to reject it. Rather than concluding there is no trend, you conclude that prior trend has continued. </p> <p>Or, again, as I prefer, only bother yourself about trends which are long enough to be physically meaningful.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YnWZxCey82LZGUGTmG12EHInNHrK1-ZYb5-Q8U4iURk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Robert Grumbine (not verified)</a> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910879" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267211763"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>El Gords @ 37 says:</p> <p>"It's probably just a coincidence, but temperatures seem to go through the roof in the early 1980's - just about the time they began to get rid of all those pesky stations."</p> <p>See this post by Tamino about the effect of the dropouts: . </p> <p>He's pretty passionate about proper analysis of the data, so much so that he's planning to publish an expansion of his work in this post:</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910879&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7H-rJVcHEoqSt7gKiC67_cbdXk78CryGXL_sK6AlUIU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910879">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910880" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267212168"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Grumbine, </p> <p>"If you start from the null hypothesis that warming has continued as observed in the previous 20, 30, ... years, you will be unable to reject it. Rather than concluding there is no trend, you conclude that prior trend has continued."</p> <p>But that's not a null hypothesis.</p> <p>Jones didn't conclude that there's no trend, he concluded that there's a 0.12C/dec trend. He also said there's a small chance it might be an artefact of the noise - but that's from a purely statistical perspective. That we know that there was a previous trend, and that there's a physical reason the trend should be upwards, somewhat negates the fact that it's not statistically significant... if you see what I mean.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910880&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lo_VCAXnf-9FY5frtrbt3df5qpk1siRC9xKPKvCPb4E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910880">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910881" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267212437"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos Motl:</p> <blockquote><p> I am not sure whether any of you understands basic science terminology, or whether you want to understand it, but if an observation extracted from the data is "not statistically significant", then it means that it's plausible or likely that it's fundamentally equal to zero</p></blockquote> <p>If nothing else, at least we know Lubos thinks 6% probability means likely.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910881&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MBewlzKuNqjIj_0RXkgQ9p4om3pK7PPifIkb3xM72dk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910881">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910882" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267213395"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thax Stu, there's a lot of competing definitions of reality.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910882&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mIegtwImBv0cTwrI49fBl8B3UFig3hAmMyRG7tSjZVc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">el gordo (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910882">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910883" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267213702"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While the Doltoids sweat the small stuff they could also check the whoppers:</p> <p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/26/mcintyre-submission-with-figures/">http://climateaudit.org/2010/02/26/mcintyre-submission-with-figures/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910883&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tEuFimQ1ZJpgoZumXBJP7bSrVqjpG0shjukZ3_5y2Ls"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">spangled drongo (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910883">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910884" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267213740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's also important to remember that the year 1995 was chosen precisely because it's the furthest back you can go without having enough data to find statistical significance.</p> <p>That is, whoever proposed this question is a conscious fraud as is anyone with statistical training (presumably including Lubos) who repeats it.</p> <p>But the rest of the "sceptics" aren't much better. These are people who presume to "make up their own minds" on complex scientific issues, but can't be bothered informing themsleves about basic statistics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910884&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xdXOmYq8sGFVIBNh-RH35RlLvOgv2p-4ai2fy8bmYHo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John Quiggin (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910884">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910885" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267215399"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks to Mapleleaf and Mike for their understanding. I'm not going to lie, I have not bothered with Dave Andrews since coming into contact nearly a year ago with his extraordinary... well, use your own imaginations as to what I was dealing with. But since in a moment of weakness I rose to his bait, I am honour bound to continue.</p> <p>Dave Andrews, I'd love some of what you're smoking, but in the absence of it I'm afraid I have no idea how you were making the assertion you made in 24. I'm sure 'they' know very well how to respond to a specific 'inquiry'. However, as to this particular situation, they provide no evidence, have no wider report, and are completely at odds with all reasonable opinion on the matter. So, why should we give a toss?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910885&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nOdWWFbnTNCpSYfOYCNMsf2x--XRL_a9sci9QmipnOk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910885">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910886" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267215639"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Betula,</p> <p>You keep mentioning the 'Jakerman Zone' without providng explanation or links. I can help [direct people to that which plagues you](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/open_thread_39.php#comment-2277072">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/open_thread_39.php#comment-2277…</a>).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910886&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LiKF2-dHD1spUXSwJrmKkz-V_f5g1eamB-SDVGmaZJw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jakerman (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910886">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910887" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267216087"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If nothing else, at least we know Lubos thinks 6% probability means likely.</p></blockquote> <p>To be fair, we don't. Lubos still hasn't responded to my questions from #16, so his advanced knowledge of significance is as yet unrevealed to us.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910887&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="w5Oc2ImcEzDvuozAJaKIiI_y67I-uNSqyUmvtqEZSos"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910887">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910888" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267219686"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"If nothing else, at least we know Lubos thinks 6% probability means likely."</p> <p>Perhaps our contrarian friend interprets "quite close" to the 95% significance level as being less than 50%. Good stuff.</p> <p>But again, keep in mind we're only talking about one dataset. With all the other indicators (many independent), it's extraordinarily unlikely that all would be off in the same direction.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910888&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R-x3ugnhtpM9UfShLew4uoAJQ7zCdd1LNL5luFnotTY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkB (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910888">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910889" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267224200"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>[Off topic comment deleted -- Tim]</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910889&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="A8i6lcyAg3yhKyg_Qakp5hbsXMCakWHcjGh-m8GF8Lo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">spangled drongo (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910889">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910890" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267227938"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Stu at #40, sure RG's is a good null hypothesis. It says "nothing's changed" from what's previously been going on. You and those who put those questions to Jones would make a more rash assumption for your null. You'd be supposing something that, given the state of scientific knowledge, would be less likely. To start with an hypothesis that there might be no warming trend for the last 15 years of a time series that shows such a trend over every longer period (from earlier start dates) would be to start with more assumptions - less parsimoniously - than Robert has in his comment.</p> <p>If you don't know Robert already you might like to check out his publication record or something, but please let's not go into Bayesian/frequentist or other esoteric arguments here in this thread about the Economist's good work.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910890&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VVQl6SvbSfBO4gO_g2ajGoCv9lbPUlT2-X92Rmnnkaw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">frankis (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910890">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910891" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267228814"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> I am not sure whether any of you understands basic science terminology ... </p></blockquote> <p>Lubos your comment at lucky #13 is ridiculous, but mind-boggling coming from a physicist. Even if you removed the revealed cluelessness about statistics from it it'd still have been a stupid comment to write here - what is the matter with you?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910891&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6NHSCproWlDBN0zRSkChL0d05wG8p6Jbpm_9MMd-pLw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">frankis (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910891">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910892" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267235364"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is another aspect of the 'Climategate' emails that is often overlooked. These emails are personal emails between collaborating scientists. They are not part of the peer-reviewed IPCC reports which are intended for publication and use in policy development. There are many steps between the 'working' CRU emails and the published IPCC reports, but is there any evidence that any of the 'questionable' wording or frustrations expressed in the emails actually influenced the content of the peer-reviewed IPCC Reports?<br /> The climate change 'deniers' need to establish such a connection, (needless to say, with a high degree of confidence), before they start slagging off dedicated people like Phil Jones.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910892&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Fn4XtkrHQYT6ytJtfZMHDK_p-oCAJiTz6VMK4v2ABYs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">GrumpyOldMan (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910892">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910893" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267241483"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I see a lot of denialism about AGW in the world today. I think this is part of the evolution of how we will deal with it. First we simply ignored it, hoping it would go away. It didn't. Now we deny it, hoping it will go away. It won't. Next we'll get all angry about it and blame each other for it. It still won't go away. Then there's the bargaining stage - hey if you use a cloth grocery bag in the year 2030, will the problem go away? No it won't.</p> <p>Finally, we'll start working on the problem. But it will be too little, too late. The earth won't be destroyed, we won't become extinct. But we could be decimated quite a bit, and surely the biodiversity of the planet will take a major hit.</p> <p>There is such a thing as reality separate from our beliefs about it. You can't "believe away" a truth, nor can your beliefs create reality. </p> <p>So far, on average, the earth is warming, and a little more rapidly every decade. There's different lines of evidence - satellite data, ice cores, weather stations, etc. </p> <p>The main cause is increased Co2 and, if the permafrost melts, a big sudden burst of methane, a far more powerful GHG than Co2. </p> <p>You can argue about it. You can even win the argument. You an spend billions of dollars winning the argument.</p> <p>But the victory will be hollow, because the reality itself will not have changed. A strong belief in something that is false can never be strong enough to make it true.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910893&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x1SrUw1nxHpxfpVaiSHL8_cHRROgqMEJc4o73UaueDc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Yogi-one (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910893">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910894" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267241973"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Frankis:</p> <p>"Stu at #40, sure RG's is a good null hypothesis. It says "nothing's changed" from what's previously been going on. You and those who put those questions to Jones would make a more rash assumption for your null. You'd be supposing something that, given the state of scientific knowledge, would be less likely"</p> <p>What's the definition of a null hypothesis? <b>In hypothesis testing, the hypothesis we wish to falsify on the basis of the data. The null hypothesis is typically that something is not present, that there is no effect, or that there is no difference between treatment and control.</b> </p> <p>So we expect the data to falsify the null hypothesis. OTOH, RG's hypothesis is someting we'd expect the data to confirm. It's not a <i>null</i> hypothesis. I don't think this is anything controversial (actually I feel like we're nitpicking). </p> <p>Did you mean to lump me in with 'those who put those questions to Jones'?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910894&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nUUBzU3eW35xGaLcEJYjPQkeyGFtjU0rYeGrhzjXf_w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 26 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910894">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910895" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267255336"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>People are a touch sensitive these days, understandably .... of course Stu I wasn't "lumping you in with" those d*ckheads in any way, except to say that you are making a less suitable choice of null hypothesis than Robert has proposed. We all know the definitions of the statistical terms, I presume you also are aware of ongoing excitement between Bayesians and frequentists, and I hope too that if not earlier then by now you've found out who Robert Grumbine is.</p> <p>Let's not nitpick (there wouldn't be a delusionalist reading this who understood what you were talking about anyway), rather let's applaud with Tim the lucidity of somebody at <i>The Economist</i> and snicker as usual at what passes for "the talent" at Australia's IPA asylum. Seriously, I'm laughing at the thought of the IPA as I type this now; cheers!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910895&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S0LqoLM4eBq2-yEq_pz4N2aojKUxizsb86pxT-w90N8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">frankis (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910895">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910896" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267257481"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>It's also important to remember that the year 1995 was chosen precisely because it's the furthest back you can go without having enough data to find statistical significance.</i></p> <p>Has anyone checked to see that if you start from more recent years, it stays below 95% confidence? In other words, is 1995 merely the most recent date for which the error bars straddle zero, or is it an isolated cherry-picked island?</p> <p>Eyeballing it, the trend 1998-2008 does look stronger than 1997-2008.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910896&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="egRVn6zeL_0Hkj8Hm813qX3dU1_RBTIvKHjmQb1gd9o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">soru (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910896">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910897" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267264544"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm going to feed Betula the Troll here, because she did attempt to make a point. Betula, you ask how we respond when the media gets something wrong that favors our point of view. But the example you give doesn't support your claim:</p> <p><i>headlines such as "U.N. Panel says Global Warming Man Made" would be a "lie", would it not?</i></p> <p>The fact is, the IPCC *did* say that global warming is man made. So the headline is not a lie -- it's the absolute truth. The fact that you disagree with the statement "global warming is man made" does not mean that the statement "The IPCC says that global warming is man made." It would be just as correct for them to print the headline "Betula says that global warming is not man made", although I doubt anybody would bother.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910897&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x7FnyLd3nLz00gufDJk9XlhNoVbtvh0No0nxhrGhip4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910897">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910898" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267265608"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Yes, but.." is still yes. If Phil jones was in the dock, he would have to answer yes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910898&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gOaLoKEvNpHActOqgRezbdzaLJXleZj4Fku5O0dXlVQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">AZFlyboy (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910898">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910899" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267269067"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>"Yes, but.." is still yes. If Phil jones was in the dock, he would have to answer yes.</i></p> <p>No, that would be perjory. He is required to give the most truthful answer he can. You are attempting to cast a probabilistic issue in boolean terms. Here's an analogy that will help you understand: suppose that you witnessed a gray car fleeing a murder scene. The lawyer asks you, "What the car black or white?" You are not required to answer "black" or "white"; you are required to answer "a shade of gray". You could add that it was closer to black or closer to white, but your most accurate answer would be "a shade of gray". Forcing the witness to describe it as either black or white is a form of deceit. In the same way, forcing Mr. Jones to answer "yes" or "no" to a question whose answer is fundamentally statistical in nature is a form of deceit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910899&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sQG_1h65PIqXAaGOCORsBZTnNIMLnuIrZEqUfsCH8Ec"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910899">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910900" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267271881"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Erasmussimo... not that Betula needs or probably wants my stepping in, but he is male.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910900&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4kwZs3UWdeRXKs7DPyTpGcnAwBZQZaNaO5AvjTN3qV8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910900">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910901" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267272372"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos,</p> <p>How about since 1994? Cherry-picking much?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910901&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x5QI6El-FLzSdpYSe18hZXlqACohuz2rJd5elu23dBo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://deepclimate.org" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Deep Climate (not verified)</a> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910901">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910902" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267275992"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dear Deep Climate,</p> <p>your point is somewhat shallow. In this thread, I discussed 1995 as opposed to 1994 because that's the year that BBC asked Phil Jones about, and for a good reason. 1995 is the earliest year when the statistical significance of the trend from that year to 2009 safely fails. Since 1994, you could get a technically significant trend. It would still not be a robust result because a small change of the beginning year would destroy the statistical significance. Only statistically significant results that persist when small changes are made are really worth talking about as evidence for anything.</p> <p>Because there have always been low-frequency cycles and signals in the climate data, it's clear that over a sufficiently long interval, one will find "some" trends. But this result is interesting because it shows that 15 years of climate data - and that's a pretty long time (recall how many things have changed since 1995) - is just noise. So even if there were an underlying trend, it isn't urgent in any sense. Waiting 15 extra years will bring no statistically detectable problem.</p> <p>BBC asked a very good and highly relevant question in a technically accurate fashion and Jones had to answer it - the answer was clearly "Yes". He was also allowed to add refinements. It's just the religious bigots like most of the readers above who dislike the question and the answer - because the answer, "Yes, there's been no statistically significant trend for 15 years", shows that even if there's anything such as "global warming", it's not really worth talking about. And you don't like this fact for the same reason why an Islamic bigot doesn't like the picture of Mohammed as just another obsessed warrior and/or terrorist: because it's an inconvenient truth.</p> <p>Cheers<br /> LM</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910902&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X791fn63hm3x2QIhDuzqdCUP6gC_1b6GWklvGJf3aLQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://motls.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LuboÅ¡ Motl (not verified)</a> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910902">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910903" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267276083"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Deep Climate @61 makes a good point. If the trend since 1995 (or 1996) is significant after 2010, will Lubos and the like all change their minds?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910903&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bYnHB0I0wImZTM0KDkeo4JnhtdP2Fb5IF_TTabWC110"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Steve L (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910903">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910904" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267277534"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter LuboÅ¡ Motl:</p> <p>The warming trend for 1994--2009 is statistically significant, but that doesn't count because you can make the significance go away by replacing real data with fake data.</p> <p>Taking 15 years of data, we find there's no statistically detectable warming. This shows that the next 15 years of data will show no statistically detectable warming either, because we'll have to magically forget all the data we collected in the past 15 years.</p> <p>Therefore, you should be quarantined and euthanized, which makes you all terrorists.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910904&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e5AB6Jz3iMmBTCEHFcPhG1a8bN0jrBinnJLt0m-p2_c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910904">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910905" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267279238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Stepanovic,</p> <p>No, this is what Lubos actually [said](<a href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/02/sir-john-houghton-is-liar.html#comment-1327182272366194327">http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/02/sir-john-houghton-is-liar.html#commen…</a>): "99% of what Lubos has ever said is irrelevant crap." </p> <p>This quote may be inaccurate in its wording but certainly not in the content.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910905&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3NKPPZilxpxnkhuplMTwaxvhjT8ywmDZL9vRQtMpbus"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lars Karlsson (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910905">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910906" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267279411"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And I should add to #65: That is statistically significant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910906&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z3hETi46W8PgMuNzhkzgwUcSYNAQxCgIKqZtv7CIBg0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lars Karlsson (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910906">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910907" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267279938"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> 1995 is the earliest year when the statistical significance of the trend from that year to 2009 safely fails. </p></blockquote> <p>By "safely", don't you mean "only just, by the slimmest whisker"?</p> <p>The trend only fails the test if you take the arbitrary 95% level as your benchmark. It would pass a test at 91% or 92% or 93%.</p> <p>Oh, and has anyone pointed out that the "failure" is really a result of aggregating the monthly data into annual averages, meaning you get only 15 data points instead of 180.</p> <p>Getting into the 90s is pretty solid for only 15 data points IMHO.</p> <p>You could take 5 year averages and have only 3 data points and an even slimmer chance of passing tests of statistical significance. I predict this is the next tactic of those suffering deniarreah.</p> <p>Anyone want to fire up their spreadsheet and tell us what the significance of the trend derived from the monthly anomalies might be?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910907&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4M0nB9DDMqQCaC-3giYGpOFo-tQ75rD2nMEg4JqpL9I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gaz (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910907">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910908" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267281082"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos says: "It's just the religious bigots like most of the readers above who dislike the question and the answer - because the answer, "Yes, there's been no statistically significant trend for 15 years", shows that even if there's anything such as "global warming", it's not really worth talking about."</p> <p>Questions: 1) do you really think it's constructive to refer to people as 'religious bigots'? If you don't think it's <i>con</i>structive, we'll have to assume you're trying to be <i>dis</i>ruptive.</p> <p>I'm religious but I don't think I'm bigoted. Please tell me if you feel otherwise!</p> <p>2) How short a time period would the trend have to be siginificant over in order to convince you that, even if there's anything such as "global warming", it really is worth talking about? After all, a period with lower than average annual variability would increase the significance even for the same trend. But it would mean bupkis anyway, because those of us interested in the <i>science</i> rather than the soundbites know that the magnitude and sign of the long term trend is what's important, and this quibbling over statistical significance of a small portion of the temperature record is merely a sideshow.</p> <p>PS if you don't think it's worth talking about, feel free not to ;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910908&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8oTGz1B0aipofCt_jJHI-CYFN5NlW55jL_Cd-OoCOMk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910908">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910909" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267282534"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"The Jakerman Zone" show has been moved @46 to a different station....Open thread 43.</p> <p>Thank you for watching.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910909&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rUS1c_XaR89K4hem-VFUZyXYIt024r36CyUkuvXnL_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Betula (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910909">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910910" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267283174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Erasmussimo @57...</p> <p>Try to back up anything you just said with an example. Anything.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910910&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ME28sMzis8V50ZBeUY0c5CEcokStJ9IaxfQSw-U7tPk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Betula (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910910">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910911" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267283622"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter Betula:</p> <p>I'm ignoring you, therefore you didn't say anything.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910911&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dTGmgBQ_KPkfdVC_ys0SoIUQuUG1nSN21BcC8wYfxUM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910911">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910912" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267283632"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does anyone else wonder whether Lubos has made up his qualifications?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910912&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EP5xw9qFdpFhmuqn0e8pP7OtNYLGQxgDzlXclGBV1S8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910912">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910913" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267284071"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ian Forrester,</p> <p>Did you go on to read past the first half sentence?</p> <p><i>"It has a worldwide membership of over 36,000 and is a leading communicator of physics-related science to all audiences...<b>Its publishing company,IOP Publishing, is a world leader in scientific publishing and the electronic dissemination of physics</b>"</i></p> <p>Given how often we are told 'its all about the physics' I really think you uoght to pay some attention to what IOP say.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910913&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0Sm8D_zxik5ZmaayOHX_Z8pKgOn2xznSaguXsGWo5xA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dave Andrews (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910913">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910914" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267285238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#72 also Lubos seems to be, well, [abusive] (<a href="http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2007/08/lubo-motl.html">http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2007/08/lubo-motl.html</a>)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910914&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PIvDbDrxS1i2Y274FMANcuhcr2Zvq7KORv0fUZtbRq0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">andrew (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910914">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910915" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267285591"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#74 Oops didn't preview that link</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910915&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iHc2cpgT6zbNCExNf_jsxoEfqm_5AgL3VlHFmH-Asz4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">andrew (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910915">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910916" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267286898"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Even shorter Lubos: * *hand wave* *</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910916&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MjCcI0cJlQQ_TopvSFQzSiGV7XC6-4hYKc9HMONhGe4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JasonW (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910916">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910917" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267288371"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shorter Dave Andrews:</p> <p>If the IOP says it's a "world leader in scientific publishing", then it's obviously a world leader in scientific publishing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910917&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Rqb1tKfJVjzkX-lrVehDzdOWBLqN7Pf6DrMKDQu15nI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910917">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910918" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267288932"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Batula (thanks for correcting me on the gender, Bud) asks:</p> <p><i>Erasmussimo @57...<br /> Try to back up anything you just said with an example. Anything.</i></p> <p>Perhaps you might rephrase your challenge. I was describing a specific instance, not a general principle. You're asking me to provide an example of a specific event. The event is its own example! I suspect that you intend something that makes sense, so please expand on your concept.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910918&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8jneUnThr65MkpSBPOhGxWHTgwfJwHzb_l1PzMO_W7Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910918">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910919" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267293815"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos Motl:</p> <blockquote><p> a good reason. 1995 is the earliest year when the statistical significance of the trend from that year to 2009 safely fails.</p></blockquote> <p>Thank you for admitting that 1995 is a blatant cherry-pick.</p> <blockquote><p>Since 1994, you could get a technically significant trend. It would still not be a robust result because a small change of the beginning year would destroy the statistical significance. Only statistically significant results that persist when small changes are made are really worth talking about as evidence for anything.</p></blockquote> <p>He never gives up, does he? No doubt if we started from 1993, he'd come up with some other pathetic excuse why it's not REALLY statistically significant even though applying his current excuse wouldn't make a diffence. Then he'd make yet another excuse for 1992, and 1991, and 1990 and ad infinitum, every time getting more and more pathetic.</p> <blockquote><p>But this result is interesting because it shows that 15 years of climate data - and that's a pretty long time (recall how many things have changed since 1995) - is just noise.</p></blockquote> <p>I'm already aware that 15 years is too short to measure climate with a reasonably high signal-to-noise ratio. This result doesn't tell us anything new at all.</p> <blockquote><p>So even if there were an underlying trend, it isn't urgent in any sense. Waiting 15 extra years will bring no statistically detectable problem.</p></blockquote> <p>Ah yes, the boiled frog excuse. The frog says: "It hasn't warmed significantly in the last 15 seconds therefore the next 15 seconds will bring no statistically detectable problem."</p> <blockquote><p> BBC asked a very good and highly relevant question</p></blockquote> <p>As in, highly cherry-picked question as Lubos helped point out above.</p> <blockquote><p> It's just the religious bigots like most of the readers above who dislike the question and the answer</p></blockquote> <p>Au contraire, we have no objection to Jones' answer. Our objection is to the lie about Jones' answer in the Daily Mail. If you had paid attention to Tim's posting, you would have noticed the statement:</p> <p>"that Daily Mail headline is a lie."</p> <p>The problem is a lie told by someone else, not Jones.</p> <blockquote><p>"Yes, there's been no statistically significant trend for 15 years", shows that even if there's anything such as "global warming"</p></blockquote> <p>What? Are you no longer saying that <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2007/01/world_faces_hottest_year_ever.php#comment-306114">we are living "on a planet that has been cooling since 1998"</a>? Please tell me you still do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910919&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FzudH9AZxuWUzp1TAiUIbH1GNUAth_2xE0eCN8uggW4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910919">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910920" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267296861"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So he admitted that there has been NO SIGNIFICANT warming since 1995. If it has NOT been significant why are we handing over so much money and control to global bodies like the UN, EU, IMF. And why am I paying extra UK car tax because I drive a 4x4? The cost that is being imposed is significant, yet the warming is not. <a href="http://www.climatejournal.org/">http://www.climatejournal.org/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910920&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cS_yPc91AbH9pdw582v-DX_PdPbCxP8xomUzxoYqGW8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.climatejournal.org/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Climate Journal (not verified)</a> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910920">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910921" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267297378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I propose chaining the denialist trolls to a post at low tide in Portsmouth and waiting. It'll be some time before there is a statistically significant change in water depth but they'll eventually get the idea.</p> <p>-bcw</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910921&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="73IlYSj1WORmADvzVLqe_ZtqiXitYH6TYsVtfb9UAls"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnrGiPZRjcJk8q">https://www.go… (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910921">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910922" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267297731"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Take a chill pill and calm down Climate Journal. Climate science isn't a conspiracy to screw you over.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910922&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wZbqFc_GioTLOg8pJAv8jkTqH7wWHieeLL7Y3iAzQYk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">John (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910922">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910923" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267299887"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Climate Journal writes:</p> <p><i>So he admitted that there has been NO SIGNIFICANT warming since 1995</i></p> <p>You greatly misunderstand what he actually said. We have indeed measured warming since 1995. We are only 94% certain that this measurement is not caused by random fluctuations in the data. We normally say that it must be 95% or greater to be "statistically significant", but that's an arbitrary line. The more truthful statement is that our confidence level is 94%.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910923&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3Uv9V7TfWxT1ZUHK9TXrkQnNwdZUTrdPNDzcC4GSilo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910923">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910924" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267303386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Climate Gerbil said:</p> <blockquote><p>And why am I paying extra UK car tax because I drive a 4x4?</p></blockquote> <p>Why shouldn't you pay an extra car tax? Those 4*4s</p> <p>a) contribute more to pollution than average vehicles<br /> b) subtract more from road safety than average vehicles<br /> c) people who can afford to operate cars, especially the expensive ones, are probably bettter placed to pay taxes than those who can't and are probably evading tax</p> <p>It's an imperfect world. In one closer to the perfect than this one all of the costs to the commons of driving motor vehicles would be settled on those who operated them. In the meantime, pinging your 4*4 for extra tax would seem to me a reasonable start, even if I were one of those who thought AGW was a load of bollocks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910924&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Thbyp-R6YSTHAdE4HV21Zsymmsu7zwSGanT-T40GKzY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910924">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910925" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267305734"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>"So he admitted that there has been NO SIGNIFICANT warming since 1995."</i></p> <p>No, he said that the confidence interval for the statistical significance of the warming was not narrow enough with such a small sample. An introductory course in statistics would help you a lot with this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910925&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l51nGQm1OOtPXkjjkhqieccEbBekCNuqICUu05x0An0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Tyler DiPietro (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910925">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910926" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267307651"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>So he admitted that there has been NO SIGNIFICANT warming since 1995. If it has NOT been significant why are we handing over so much money and control to global bodies like the UN, EU, IMF. And why am I paying extra UK car tax because I drive a 4x4? The cost that is being imposed is significant, yet the warming is not. <a href="http://www.climatejournal.org/">http://www.climatejournal.org/</a></p></blockquote> <p>Without wishing to comment on your understanding of where UK government money goes, I can at least aid your understanding of the reason. No notice is taken of the trend from the period 1995-present because it is far too long to draw any meaningful conclusion from. Instead, people are worried about climate change because there has been a statistically significant increase in GMST between midnight and now.</p> <p>Oh... wait.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910926&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="die7pkKhKTg75YBtpom7B0C07h5z_2iRslNAM_PL9EY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910926">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910927" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267317788"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"So he admitted that there has been NO SIGNIFICANT warming since 1995."</p> <p>Get a clue, Climate journal.</p> <p>If there was a 94% chance you'd be hit by a bus if you crossed the road, would you do it any way on the basis that it was less than 95% and that therefore there was "no signifcant" chance you'd get run over?</p> <p>The 95% confidence interval is only a traditional yardstick, there's nothing magic about it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910927&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0q2frhyrAEERBeK_DHnPu7gU0yL5r4qvTN_CA3ZCbA8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gaz (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910927">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910928" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267327227"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Climate Journal:</p> <blockquote><p>So he admitted that there has been NO SIGNIFICANT warming since 1995.</p></blockquote> <p>No, Jones said <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm">"Yes, but only just" and "This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level" to the quesion "Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no STATISTICALLY-SIGNIFICANT global warming"</a>. Please stop lying about what he said. Didn't you learn anything from the Daily Mail lying about what he said?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910928&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OvzWxvi0p3w0OGybOtQFgFxo8PL6oW4lTDbT5DwEKMQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910928">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910929" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267327498"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Don't you love the unselfconscious irony of taking on the moniker "Climate Journal" and then posting your deep ignorance of climate science? Poe's Law is thriving in hockey stick fashion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910929&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_4WMvbBRQZP7jeDR39W1khfdjY-MVdSKdcM-Iw0HwOI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 27 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910929">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910930" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267346394"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Erasimodo,</p> <p>If I need to explain it to you, then you're a moron. So I'll give you a hint....</p> <p>You're most-likely a moron.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910930&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="moH0eyK9rjDwM5SjAL-U8Sl5LBd1TQZxwDqbFsmbafk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Betula (not verified)</span> on 28 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910930">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910931" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267349138"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Betula, perhaps I am a moron. Perhaps you are inarticulate. Who knows for sure?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910931&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TkOdewxnJvzXglMZK3pl9cLL31_J3rZ3JvEMLbR_zyE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 28 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910931">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910932" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267350193"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Tim, I am pleased to see that you have raised the matter of John Roskam's grubby mendacity. I had hoped to do it last week, but after the time I wasted on drongo, I had none left to focus on Roskam's grubby point-scoring on Q&amp;A.</p> <p>LuboÅ¡ Motl:</p> <p>Permit me to ask you this - given the noise inherent in the temperature signal over the twentieth century, after any long-term warming trend is removed, how rapid would future warming have to be in order for a statisitcally "significant" signal to be observed in less than a 15 year period?</p> <p>What are the implications for the planet for a rate greater in magnitude than your answer? More interesting, what are the implications for the planet for any of a range of rates less than your answer, down to than currently reflected in the trajectory of the last 100 years?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910932&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W0hC1NhkC7Yy3DhNror24DjYk6AhB0mePBg7QH34Vg8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 28 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910932">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910933" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267369474"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Anyone who has even a passing high-school familiarity with statistics should understand the difference between these two statements.</i></p> <p>If everyone had "a passing high-school familiarity with statistics", Las Vegas would be home mainly to tumbleweeds and the states would have to raise revenue through taxes rather than soaking the poor with lotteries.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910933&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2hQpyoaB942UCd9oXKhg9IH7s2MFy-j4gvb_FcdtfLU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ray C. (not verified)</span> on 28 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910933">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910934" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267424782"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dear Stu, </p> <p>when it comes to your "constructions", indeed, I was surely not trying to be constructive. I was writing the truth, and I completely agree with you that the truth is completely disruptive, rather than constructive, for all of you. But that's not my fault. You can only build upon lies, obfuscations, distortions, censorship, corruption, and intimidation. That's what you've been doing for quite some time. And you are still doing it today, even 3 months aftedr your house of lies has collapsed.</p> <p>I think that the few religious bigots who gather e.g. on this blog are dangerous individuals for the society and for the human rights, and as another reader has correctly observed, the responsible officials should think about the most human ways possible how to protect the society - and individuals - against the likes of yours.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910934&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9lsHSBoJFuoT_mxpkaMdmWUISc83d20PJDb38XyxGvE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://motls.blogspot.com/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LuboÅ¡ Motl (not verified)</a> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910934">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910935" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267427804"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I think that the few religious bigots who gather e.g. on this blog are dangerous individuals for the society and for the human rights...</p></blockquote> <p>Wow, did anyone just get a whiff of naked eliminationism?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910935&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VMHKHCD_BwdNtOxYVeu1RsXOphahewDnVc425ISJdyk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910935">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910936" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267429240"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I was surely not trying to be constructive. </p></blockquote> <p>If only you'd said that at the top of the thread rather than here, we could have all saved ourselves a hell of a lot of vain efforts asking questions of you and requesting you justify your position.</p> <p>Lotharsson, Motl is starting to remind me of [Matthias Rath](<a href="http://www.badscience.net/2009/04/matthias-rath-steal-this-chapter/">http://www.badscience.net/2009/04/matthias-rath-steal-this-chapter/</a>), another idealogue whose wrongness is only matched by his moral hatred for those who point it out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910936&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VD_AbGCQ1AjKJwwR3TmSRtm1dwksuNCsnfGB-2smZS8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910936">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910937" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267430530"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos Motl:</p> <blockquote><p> 3 months aftedr your house of lies has collapsed</p></blockquote> <p>Yes, <a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_Jan_10.jpg">collapsing like global temperature</a>.</p> <p>Bud:</p> <blockquote><p> we could have all saved ourselves a hell of a lot of vain efforts asking questions of you</p></blockquote> <p>I think it must be Lubos' religion that prevents him from answering questions. He must think he's The Pope.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910937&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WGgs3jsRZx-ifaEKZsua9GX3m_sa44vKQ7dkEovHAMs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910937">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910938" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267430950"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>LuboÅ¡ Motl.</p> <p>Perhaps you missed my [posting previously](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/the_economist_calls_a_lie_a_li.php#comment-2309505">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/the_economist_calls_a_lie_a_li…</a>).</p> <p>In case you did I will repeat, for your benefit, the question I asked:</p> <p>Given the noise inherent in the temperature signal over the twentieth century after any long-term warming trend is removed, how rapid would future warming have to be in order for a statistically "significant" signal to be observed in less than a 15 year period?</p> <p>What are the implications for the planet, for a rate greater in magnitude than your answer? More interesting, what are the implications for the planet for any of a range of rates less than your answer, down to that currently reflected in the trajectory of the last 100 years?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910938&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AKYbllB3HQ0tiRfJ6h-rUZA9xBNU4w0GKp2-PLq56iY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910938">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910939" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267434393"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bernard:</p> <blockquote><p> I will repeat, for your benefit, the question I asked</p></blockquote> <p>I wouldn't expect an answer from Lubos Motl anytime soon. He's a pontif troll, i.e. his objective is to pontificate and you won't get any question answered unless he can answer it in such a way as to allow further pontification.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910939&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gCtMHPEvO4LG9tCiRN7F_xuItcul9Jvlp0gAcq-jLeU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910939">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910940" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267443945"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, I say that you are dangerous because you are dangerous. </p> <p>For example, one week ago, two global warming believers in Argentina - people obsessed just like you - shot their two kids and themselves because of fears of "global warming",</p> <p><a href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/03/global-warming-alarmed-parents-murdered.html">http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/03/global-warming-alarmed-parents-murder…</a></p> <p>The daughter miraculously survived, swimming in blood and Gore for three days, even though she was shot in the chest. However, the son (and the parents) died. No one asked the children whether they agreed with their parents' beliefs that there is a dangerous global warming underway. They just shot them.</p> <p>In the very same way, you are attacking me and others just for the very fact that we say the truth and the truth is inconvenient for your wholly irrational cult. You're ready to impose a new tax or decimate the world's economy, or anything like that, in the name of your insane beliefs. It's just a matter of your so-far reduced courage that you don't act as the people in Argentina, or the Islamic terrorists, for that matter. </p> <p>The logic is surely the same.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910940&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vnq1mIiL8xawqP3bF-jbBI9u4bf5GRvkveUrhiDdwpE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/03/global-warming-alarmed-parents-murdered.html" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LuboÅ¡ Motl (not verified)</a> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910940">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910941" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267446942"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Motl, I suggest you stop PWOC.</p> <p>(posting whilst on crack)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910941&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a8e-PLcyxAsclcEZ32yAWfUCpSwr8V0uh6d57a9DaMg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bud (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910941">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910942" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267447212"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No doubt, Lotharsson. In correspondence with me on his blog, Lubos once characterized eugenics as "impressive". Lubos is an Asperger-suffering fascist. The good news is that, like all high functioning autistics, Lubos possesses a special talent. The bad news is that his is being an Olympic champion asshole.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910942&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uL6x3WW53GG3hIrC7U9_XjIrzXmLHqhsEEYQpp8BJJ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Majorajam (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910942">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910943" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267447327"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ahh, Lubos, you are truly a disturbed individual. </p> <p>Meanwhile, global temperatures are still trending upwards. And you never present any evidence that you are correct.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910943&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UQFjU4ApOHmxjJSiXnnvlACohQFv0-gzdHGC74WTnf8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">guthrie (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910943">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910944" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267447945"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My goodness, that is some grade-A bile! I particularly like the argument that those with whom he disagrees would be mass murderers and worse if only they weren't such abject cowards. I'll have to work that one into my conflict management repertoire.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910944&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GwWLTDEx4lpfAHDqazW1t5BFLsfxyf48H46ux3nVpzo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">A. Lurker (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910944">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910945" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267451391"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos, good man, YOU have some titanic issues. Nevertheless, your illuminating bonmots are much appreciated. They go a long way towards showing the true mindset of many a denialist. "Dangerous individuals of society" indeed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910945&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2_4LINz6LHK9fB-xwH4fuFQI6ZZqkexBjBNqLKIUrzQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JasonW (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910945">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910946" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267455026"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lubos Motl at #101 is clearly very sick at the moment. I don't see any way that someone this unwell could be contributing meaningfully to theoretical physics as he used to claim he did. Here in blogworld there's no possibility of engagement with one who writes as he does. Medication? Asperger's maybe Majorajam but schizophrenia also seems a possibility; if he's religious there are nasty demons tormenting him.</p> <p>Seek professional help Lubos.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910946&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8TXWSkG0b6IgEDD13EXCAaTVhuwUtRwtwxpYVajf6jc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">frankis (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910946">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910947" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267459752"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is very encouraging. The media has generally been so vulnerable to manipulation by people trying to create confusion about the nature and seriousness of climate change, so it is important that forceful counterarguments be used when they are available.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910947&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-GeZlGLfgq9fcHSWnxRef3bV2o_jzJos-K8qjwaPUYs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.burycoal.com/blog/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Milan (not verified)</a> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910947">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910948" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267460338"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>95 Lubos,</p> <blockquote><p> I think that the few religious bigots who gather e.g. on this blog are dangerous individuals for the society and for the human rights, and as another reader has correctly observed, the responsible officials should think about the most human ways possible how to protect the society - and individuals - against the likes of yours. </p></blockquote> <p>You are highly delusional, possibly borderline psychotic. I suggest professional help.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910948&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tk8IpM5GYr2VfnfhvhB_k7Od9DXP9wQaRh7nd4nAWGo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TrueSceptic (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910948">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910949" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267479094"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Let's thank the Pope Lubos troll for directing us to those quality tabloids The Telegraph, Daily Mail etc. We wouldn't get the opportunity to believe everything they say without his example.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910949&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wghTw0dJ_X351mkhagolIL7rkg7OXJuebJLYKSnOtsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris O&#039;Neill (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910949">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910950" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267485784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> He's a pontif troll... </p></blockquote> <p>Ah, so he does think he is a Pope!</p> <p>;-)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910950&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7i18Fdeq02x8oL-3rYYe3YnCkpiPoRBaM1U6sB-beS0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lotharsson (not verified)</span> on 01 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910950">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910951" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267519865"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I have read that Lubos is nice in person.</p> <p>Lubos, what is it about the internet that turns you into such a bitter, twisted individual? If you met us in the street, would you say the same things?</p> <p>I agree that you really do seem to need help. On the upside, we do now have a stash of Lubos quotes that we could helpfully update his wikipedia entry with... even if they likely wouldn't stay there for long.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910951&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qwkKzd3bDXqXrn_SnsBfSESvpYtysXG3rM0H3wZApW0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stu (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910951">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910952" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267528268"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gee, Lubos, if the murder-suicide of three people provides some proof that AGW scientists are wrong, then what does the death of 30,000 people in the USA alone by firearms prove about firearms? Whatever it proves, it 10,000 times more powerfully than the case you make.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910952&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9QahBt5-QEGBHjWQL0WMah27pcDDCJOC1et0tvyj2S0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erasmussimo (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910952">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910953" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267537186"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Memo to Motl:</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change</a></p> <p>You're on the fringe, still clinging to flat Earth theory. "How can the Earth not be flat? Should I believe the scientists or my own lying eyes?"</p> <p>Odd that you preach about religious cultism after claiming "I was writing the truth". Religious zealots always believe they are speaking the truth. </p> <p>And no - gradaully reducing carbon emissions won't "decimate the world's economy". Such alarmism is quite common among global warming deniers, although one wonders how many of them actually believe such fear-mongering.</p> <p>Motl is part of a large congregation of zealots, gaining inspiration and reinforcement from each other.</p> <p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2010/03/02/round-and-round-we-go-with-lindzen-motl-and-jones/">http://deepclimate.org/2010/03/02/round-and-round-we-go-with-lindzen-mo…</a></p> <p>The history books won't be kind to them. It hasn't been so far.</p> <p><a href="http://www.aip.org/history/climate/">http://www.aip.org/history/climate/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910953&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XyU_nbkTbHzGWEnWFT5VSHIPzOwdJTwTskWxDRC01XE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkB (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910953">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910954" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267538188"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> [...] swimming in blood and <i><b>Gore</b></i> for three days</p></blockquote> <p>Amidst the mass of other nonsense Lubos Motl utters, this does put the finger of the obsessive hatred their lot have about Al Gore.</p> <p>I've long wondered about this. Personally, I've never felt all that strongly about Al Gore one way or the other. He seems a fairly articulate middle-of-the-road to slightly liberal US politican. Yet for some reason, the right around the world seem utterly obsessed with him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910954&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6_ISh_9647HrG5aQpZWW7TTqlt1vLNtF7rQfVYh3KzQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910954">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910955" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267548668"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>[Fran](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/the_economist_calls_a_lie_a_li.php#comment-2316487">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/the_economist_calls_a_lie_a_li…</a>).</p> <blockquote><p>Yet for some reason, the right around the world seem utterly obsessed with him.</p></blockquote> <p>I suspect that it has something to do with the fact that deep down they know that Gore was the legitimately-elected president of the USA, and that their numpty shrub stole the presidency from him. The only way to legitimise (in their eyes, at least) what was a travesty of democracy, and of subsequent government, is to attempt to convince themselves that he would have been worse than Bush Jnr.</p> <p>Talk about screaming cognitive dissonance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910955&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7sviTgH7w3NgWTUJoC1fPUF5ysFL4Szozghnp4my4ek"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard j. (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910955">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910956" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267551189"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There's probably a lot to what you say Bernard, but I also suspect it's partly to do with plebeian angst towards perceived elites. In the mind of the parochial trailer trash fringe, things from outside your immediate physical space, and even more so, from outside your cultural and intellectual space lose political authenticity. Gore probably presses their buttons because he hails from South of Mason-Dixon but sounds educated and is wealthy. This helps explain the gun nut culture -- there's nothing quite so authentic as a single guy with a rifle defending his verandah.</p> <p>Interestingly and paradoxically, their hatred for him is so great that they miss how their advocacy helps other elites who really are their enemies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910956&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6vi_MtDRcWBFHrD6_NiuXHp2-4BGKH9bnUVlc0c-WvA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910956">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910957" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267551641"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Fran - I'm not american, but know a few of them, and feel that your characterisation of "parochial trailer trash fringe" understates the problem quite severely, in that we aren't dealing just with some unhinged undereducated nutters. Instead, we've got a mix of well educated ideologues, plenty of people who would be called middle class over here but are also rabidly right wing/ christian types, and of course a large number of think tanks and rich people who may or may not believe their own propaganda.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910957&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_qrPd-Tp8oHo1oIj9BzlTVmJeV5cusEBOvWtJ_V0EQ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">guthrie (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910957">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910958" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267552254"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I take your point Guthrie, but it's the trailer trash fringe who make up the foot soldiers, the zombie and bot armies that turn up at tea party meetings with birther slogans and their guns.</p> <p>These are the people who are the Fox fodder and lend authenticity to the upper middle class/elite creeps at the top. It's the trailer trash who bear the sedan chairs for people like Beck and Palin and Inhofe and the Senator for Lawnmowers ...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910958&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RKfGa7apx661k5k5VNDjCXvthXVmM7HAQ66srcdiGHw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910958">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910959" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267553255"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>115 Fran,</p> <p>I'm sure we all noticed the capital <b>G</b>. </p> <p>If there's any one thing that gives away a denidiot, it's any mention of algore, or any variation on that name. </p> <p>I suppose that Lubos thought he would impress us with his <b>shining wit</b>? ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910959&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l0wW36urqYheZ9J4Fr30kq8dxORySt0I6pKe6mt_hiw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TrueSceptic (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910959">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910960" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267553427"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I suppose that Lubos thought he would impress us with his shining wit? ;)</p></blockquote> <p>Aha! I think I spot a spoonerism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910960&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x-JaxEEGubwOJ0s3cXDbXjYetW85FUO2iSUebWwjdLg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">P. Lewis (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910960">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910961" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267553593"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>117 Fran,</p> <p>Of course, the Bush family is trailer trash. Isn't it great how Dubya triumphed against such huge odds? </p> <p>Heck, Dubya is the 21st century Abraham Lincoln!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910961&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0y6Lq_cK57F33y5M2Z4bhC5VuWnubgBYmi79APEoKmM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TrueSceptic (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910961">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910962" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267554408"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>112 Stu,</p> <p>(Godwin looms) My sisters Diana and Unity said that Adolf was *very* charming in person. Take that as you will.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910962&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="orX6LRYDcZVKdVmRFkOtjnhfWGKaNMIH72g6lB8re4k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Decca (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910962">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910963" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267557232"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It is quite common for sociopaths to have well developed social skills (EQ) so this might well be the case Decca. </p> <p>This of course is mere affectation rather than anything that goes to the worth of the person in question in a social setting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910963&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mcxw9rNe0BpqlT4KRq40y-tCdl9DOMShw1bQnZsHuK0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Fran Barlow (not verified)</span> on 02 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910963">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-910964" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1267688234"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>LuboÅ¡ Motl.</p> <p>You are [missing in action](<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/the_economist_calls_a_lie_a_li.php#comment-2311873">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/the_economist_calls_a_lie_a_li…</a>).</p> <p>What's the problem - was the question too challenging for you?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=910964&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eq2cqcTjpgQ_X-C9f9Ft_VtfjG86Z3t7jfm_tNek2Rs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bernard J. (not verified)</span> on 04 Mar 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-910964">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/deltoid/2010/02/26/the-economist-calls-a-lie-a-li%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:18:58 +0000 tlambert 16724 at https://scienceblogs.com Daily Mail caught in another lie https://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/14/daily-mail-caught-in-another-l <span>Daily Mail caught in another lie</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Following the heels of the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/01/rosegate.php">Rosegate</a> <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/01/rosegate_scandal_grows.php">scandal</a> where journalist David Rose was <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/01/rosegate_scandal_still_growing.php">exposed</a> as a <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/01/rosegate_david_rose_caught_mis.php">serial quote fabricator</a>, the credibility of Rose's newspaper, the <em>Daily Mail</em>, has taken another body blow with the paper publishing a <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0fU76jgm6">false story</a> claiming that Phil Jones had admitted that there had been no global warming since 1995.</p> <p>This is false (see graph below) and Jones made no such admission. Michael Tobis has the details on the <a href="http://initforthegold.blogspot.com/2010/02/journalism.html"><em>Daily Mail</em>'s dishonesty</a>.</p> <p><a href="http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/wp-content/blogs.dir/443/files/2012/04/i-2d0aa8eb506bc2b59672458359e0d45c-gisstempfiga.png" alt="i-2d0aa8eb506bc2b59672458359e0d45c-gisstempfiga.png" /></a></p> <p>Ever gullible Tim Blair, of course, <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/cool_change">swallowed the lie</a>, hook, line and sinker. Andrew Bolt will do doubt follow if he <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/02/bolt_speechless.php">gets his voice back</a>.</p> <p><strong>Update</strong>: <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/93833/">Glenn Reynolds</a> and <a href="http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/02/admissions-will-be-seized-on-by.html">Ann Althouse</a> fall for the lie.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/author/tlambert" lang="" about="/author/tlambert" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tlambert</a></span> <span>Sat, 02/13/2010 - 21:11</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/climategate" hreflang="en">ClimateGate</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/jonathan-petre" hreflang="en">Jonathan Petre</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/phil-jones" hreflang="en">Phil Jones</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/global-warming" hreflang="en">global warming</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909293" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266115129"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wish Jones had resisted the request for an interview; it only results in abuse of his integrity. He seems extraordinarily unwary despite these 'journalists' repeated demonstrations that you wouldn't trust them with your lunch order.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909293&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="COF5jW4pGO3zJEHDaxzBi8YUSpMM0axKuMTCuULQOMk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nick (not verified)</span> on 13 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909293">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909294" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266121443"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Nick: he gave the interview, and apparently in writing, with the BBC. The Daily Mail then 'interpreted' the interview. And the Daily Mail has shown itself quite apt at making up things. It was in the forefront of the MMR scare, and now again in stirring up anti-AGW ideas.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909294&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RmA3c-RKIm94oM5chSlJWArmrmoNeQBFv_Xe5VWx4wo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 13 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909294">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909295" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266126203"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If, as people are claiming the Daily Mail have fabricated its reporting, then who is going to take legal proceedings against them?, i find it very strange that only last week Jones was playing the sympathy card with a "contemplating suicide" story, Then the next thing he is on the BBC doing an interview,<br /> Im sure its a very noble thing to do albeit foolhardy as he is under the microscope by the media &amp; his colleagues not to mention the legal investigations ongoing,<br /> The fact still remains that Jones did say there had been no warming as confirmed in the emails which he admits are genuine,<br /> Even the BBC are now questioning AGW which, considering they are the largest government propaganda peddlers are slowly waking up to the fact that the science is not "settled" &amp; it does need closer scrutiny as there is alot of doubts that have not been validated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909295&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jAP7BMOa819QnerW86LCTXaRrL515DqsE2G2m0WY_eM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">chumney warner Bsc (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909295">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909296" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266126699"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What percentage of people reading that article understand the meaning of <i>significant</i> in a statistical context?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909296&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3u9cg8NYO-dojyXyl091vpbttY_yzSXHvDpfU57zdgY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="This really is my last comment">This really is… (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909296">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909297" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266127445"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&gt; If, as people are claiming the Daily Mail have fabricated its reporting, then who is going to take legal proceedings against them?</p> <p>Like, um, <a href="http://iji2.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/is-coleman-v-gore-still-dead-part-deux/">John Coleman, who is very very very serious about suing Al Gore except when it comes to actually doing so</a>?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909297&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GNTuvWIGVHdlVPzbR_-dpAuokEc3toSMBNFbZ9z_Wh8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://inactivism.tk/" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">stepanovich (not verified)</a> on 14 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909297">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909298" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266129236"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@chumney warner Bsc:</p> <p>You are aware of the costs of legal proceedings? And in case you think you get your money back when you win, ask Ben Goldacre. When he was sued by Mathias Rath he was lucky enough to have the Guardian pay for him. Lucky, I say, because despite Rath losing (or rather, retracting the case), the Guardian spent about 300,000 pound MORE than they got back.</p> <p>In other words: one person going against an institute with plenty of lawyers, has absolutely no chance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909298&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pk4AdFQbP-rV2nq-UJ0F79I3ElG4NCl2Bur-dWvKDw4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Marco (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909298">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909299" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266129562"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@3 All that this sad bullshit boils down to is a journalistic culture of shoddy research,unethical misrepresentation and quote-mining,compounded by rapid dispersal. This is what sustains an essentially phony interaction between some scientists and those in fear of their work. Please don't be part of it and put words into Jones' mouth. Just read the BBC interview and don't attempt to paraphrase. And download the IPCC reports,take the time to work through them; that is the only way you'll have a chance of making sense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909299&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YCGkLCI4FoXdK6nkTKI5ZAVOJHBGH4_IEcPdd8knwVQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nick (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909299">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-909300" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1266130598"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chumney said:</p> <p>&gt;The fact still remains that Jones did say there had been no warming as confirmed in the emails which he admits are genuine</p> <p>Incorrect. The emails do not confirm any such thing.<br /> You are imposing your own interpretation on them, there isn't enough context in the emails to suggest what you are suggesting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=909300&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1SC5LdsoZTA3PRAwz7nZw3SMA6dHdzf1P_nwizac3_U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul UK (not verified)</span> on 14 Feb 2010 <a href="https://scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/571/feed#comment-909300">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="fie