God Chinese. God play joke.

God put proteins that kinda sorta might look like Chinese characters in cells so that PROVES DESIGN AND JESUS.

hehehe.

ID Creationists are hard at work proving design (unlike real scientists that state a hypothesis and accept data whether its for/against their original idea). The stagnant cyber-squat ‘Biologic Institute’ has finally been updated with links to TOP NOTCH Creationist research like:

Are there universal principles of complex design? What are they? What stamp, if any, do they leave on things manufactured according to a complex design specification? Are any of these stamps present in living systems?

Model proteins based on analogy between the structure–function relationship in written Chinese and in proteins (D. Axe, B. Dixon, P. Lu, manuscript in press).

It appears as if in addition to Nikes, dog food, and literally everything in Wal Mart– the very Universe itself is…

Comments

  1. #1 mcmillan
    May 17, 2008

    Well there’s already another example of God making a protein that looks like a cross, so why not letters. Though I thought Jews were the chosen people not Chinese. Wouldn’t think Hebrew would make more sense?

  2. #2 kb
    May 17, 2008

    Seems like Dembski made a correct prediction 10 years ago.
    “At the same time that research in the Bible Code has taken off, research in a seemingly unrelated field has taken off as well, namely, biological design. These two fields are in fact closely related.” – Cracking the Bible Code by William A. Dembski

    Damn you Poe!

  3. #3 Bob O'H
    May 17, 2008

    You’ve been reading AtBC again, haven’t you?

    I’m intrigued to see what journal this revelation appears in. Can’t be JOEI, that’s disappeared. PCID hasn’t published since about 2005, so what’s left? Rivista, the obscure Italian journal that published JAD’s work?

    Or have they hit the big time, and got themselves into the Answers Research Journal?

  4. #4 Aerik
    May 17, 2008

    Well, that was….

    racist

  5. #5 Dr Benway
    May 17, 2008

    The Biologic site describes the groups interests in abiogenesis and information theory. Nothing wrong with this, provided they don’t overstate their data. *cough*

    But I spot some naive sounding statements:

    A few key ideas run through all of our work. One is the idea that information is as real and fundamental as physical quantities, like mass or energy.

    “Information” is a human construct. We find it convenient to identify a bit of reality which seems to represent another bit of reality. But in fact there is no relationship between signified and signifier apart from some translater interacting with both.

    We live in a middle-world of years rather than nanoseconds or millenia. And so we think of glass as a solid rather than a liquid and we imagine that words have fixed meanings.

    Consider the sentence, “The hat is on the table.” That might mean there’s a hat on a table. Or perhaps it’s code for, “set the bomb now.” Or it might point to a larger memeplex in the same way as “you’re the man now, dog!”

    The interpretation problem is why we can’t yet create machines capable of understanding human language. Think what you’d have to put into a machine before it might understand something like, “All your base are belong to us.” You’t need to get the whole friggin’ world in there first. So how do you put a number on the amount of info in that sentence?

    Assuming a fixed translator, a fixed set of symbols with fixed inter-relationships, and a fixed environment, you can measure the number of bits a signifier might need relative to another signifier.

    But last I checked, well, evolution.

  6. #6 Dr Benway
    May 17, 2008

    Hey, notice how Biologic looks like an Expelled cast party?

  7. #7 Dr Benway
    May 17, 2008

    Ok one more then I do laundry:

    Interestingly, the only places in the universe where we see information stored, processed and transmitted in digital code are the complex systems of human design and the even more complex design-like systems of life.

    I guess we have three sets here: man-made and non-man-made further subdivided into living and non-living material. So the assertion might be restated: “The non-living natural world exhibits no digital code.”

    Well, we do see a number of clocks and patterned cycles among non-living systems. I’m not sure how the regularity of DNA transcription is a fundamentally different thing.

  8. #8 Gobaskof
    May 17, 2008

    Looks like God is behind the times, the final character, ?, is no longer in Chinese as it has been simplified to ?.
    Also it is a strange message god is trying to send:
    ?- Egg
    ?- White
    ? or ? – hostage/ matter/ nature/ quality (Only learning Chinese so I had to get this one out of a dictionary).

    So I assume God is trying to tell us “Natural Egg White”!

    Next time you eat an egg watch our for Jeeeeeeebus.

  9. #9 Sili
    May 17, 2008

    I seem to have suffered an involuntary humourectomy … “Biologic Institute”? Poe, right? Gotta be Poe.

    And what Aerik said. I certainly did not expect to see that here. The tone may be rough, but it’s never been mean. At least not mean like that.

  10. #10 John Kwok
    May 17, 2008

    Hi Abbie,

    Nah. Can’t be Chinese. It looks more like Klingon to me. So therefore this merely proves that the “Intelligent Designer” was a Klingon (My “buddy” Bill Dembski thinks I’m childish for accepting Klingon Cosmology. Seems to me that he’s far more childish for subscribing to – and promoting – the mendacious intellectual pornography known as Intelligent Design.

    Cheers,

    John

    P. S. But if that is indeed Chinese, it only goes to show you that yours truly – and the rest of the Han Chinese tribe – are really the “Chosen People”.

  11. #11 Ross
    May 17, 2008

    I just love that at the top of their homepage they state: “As with any dispute, ‘careful’ implies ‘fair-minded’- allowing the competing alternative to be properly developed and presented”. Then in the next breath “We think that life looks designed because it was designed”. Well then, what’s the point of any debate then?

  12. #12 ERV
    May 17, 2008

    Yeah, nothin says racist like supporting a kickass Chinese American artist and humor.

    *hangs head in shame*

    Read another blog, dipshits.

    Bob– I always read AtBC! You all see everything. You all know everything. You all have everything archived. One of the best resources for Creationism and dealing with Creationists on the internet.

    WHOO!!

  13. #13 Ross
    May 17, 2008

    And ??? means protein. Also the Characters are the same in Japanese. And in Taiwan, they use the the traditional chinese characters so researchers in Taiwan would in fact write protein with these characters. It probably is derived from albumin.

  14. #14 ERV
    May 17, 2008

    hehehehehe Am I the only one who is seeing ‘???’ instead of Chinese characters in the comments? Kinda fitting– Creationist research = ??? hehehehehe

    Ross and Benway– I couldnt read as far in as you all did. First sentence: “Everyone agrees that life is full of systems and structures that have an appearance of intelligent design.”
    Noooo… I dont agree with that. The ‘systems and structures’ in ‘life’ look crazy and stochastic. ‘Actin’ doesnt look perfect and cool like it does in ‘Inner Life of a Cell’.

  15. #15 Gobaskof
    May 17, 2008

    You need to have a language pack installed to see the characters.

    Thanks Ross for the full meaning. I am correct in my meanings of the words on there own aren’t I?

    True, I did know Japanese Kanji, and Taiwan still use traditional characters. Must have slipped my mind.

  16. #16 Sili
    May 17, 2008

    Oh … it’s a ‘reclaim the taunt’ kinda thing. I didn’t realise – shoulda known better and looked for the context.

    I’m sorry. My apologies.

  17. #17 ERV
    May 17, 2008

    Eh, sorry for snapping too, Sili– Im really touchy about that sort of thing since my ‘Dawkins is hurting the cause’ encounter.

    One of my Chueh faves: Rainbow Series #2

  18. #18 Dr Benway
    May 17, 2008

    And as with any dispute, “careful” implies “fair-minded,” allowing the competing alternatives to be properly developed and presented.

    By “properly developed” I’m sure they mean: “We’re gonna get some physical evidence you guys can corroborate. Then we’re gonna make some testable predictions. We’ll run those tests and if we find something interesting we’ll come talk to y’alls. Before then we’ll leave you in peace cuz we can see you’re real busy, what with trying to cure AIDS and cancer ‘n such.”

  19. #19 Aerik
    May 17, 2008

    @Sili:

    It’s not just the biologic institute’s stupidity that’s racist. ERV’s use of that dumb joke is racist, too.

  20. #20 John Kwok
    May 17, 2008

    Dear Aerik,

    You’re absolutely right on both counts. I heard a variation of “God Chinese. God play joke” growing up as a young kid in New York City. I didn’t find it funny then, and frankly, nor do I now (BTW, I’ve privately voiced my concern to Abbie, and she’s aware of it now.).

    Guess Abbie decided to have a silly moment, but alas, one that had more in common with the likes of Bill Dembski and his fellow intellectually-challenged posters at Uncommon Dissent than with the likes of PZ Myers, Ken Miller, or Wes Elsberry.

    Appreciatively yours,

    John

  21. #21 Miss Agent Girl
    May 17, 2008

    For crap sake if people are going to be the politically correct police they may want to take a different approach outside of a blind accusatory tone and a finger wag anyway. Nobody responds well to that type of childish “Gotcha” mentality.

  22. #22 Tyler DiPietro
    May 17, 2008

    Reflexive political correctness is getting a little tiresome around these parts. Everything even mildly derogatory in a ScienceBlogs post drags out the self-righteous finger wagers, and quite frankly, it’s annoying as hell. If you’re offended, that’s your right, just like some are offended by Stuff God Hates. Vote with your feet if it’s that important to you.

  23. #23 Aerik
    May 17, 2008

    Gotcha mentality? Politically Correct?

    Know what’s funny? I’ve never, ever heard any politician, administrator, moderator, or any person of any consequence correct somebody and say “Now now, the politically correct term is…”

    It only happens in “comedy” sketches making fun of people who supposedly use political correctness to badger a conservative.

    It gives the impression that it’s only bigots who have something to hide when they accuse somebody of political correctness.

    I mean, what’s so exclusively political about not wanting people to use racist stereotypes?

    When is belittling another person for their race ever OK to begin with? And why is combating that taken to be an attempt at making thought crime?

    There is a double-edged sword of racism here. First it’s the biologic institute’s implication that the Chinese written languages are dirty and primitive since they look like germs and germ stuff, and then ERV using the stupid joke.

    What’s especially dumb about ERV’s joke is that nobody learning the English language speaks that way. Seriously. Nobody ever goes on making the mistake of constantly substituting “me” or “I.” The joke, even in this context, belittles the brains of another race.

  24. #24 Tyler DiPietro
    May 17, 2008

    “I mean, what’s so exclusively political about not wanting people to use racist stereotypes?”

    There is something exclusively (and excessively) political about lashing out at even the most innocuous references to a stereotype. As an Italian-American I don’t bitch and stomp my feet everytime someone makes a mafia joke, primarily because that would make me look like a humorless shit.

  25. #25 Crake
    May 17, 2008

    This is not racism of ERVs part, since when was language used to define a race?

  26. #26 Shirakawasuna
    May 17, 2008

    It only happens in “comedy” sketches making fun of people who supposedly use political correctness to badger a conservative.

    It gives the impression that it’s only bigots who have something to hide when they accuse somebody of political correctness.

    Your impression is wrong and implicitly far more offensive than an easily-recognized childish joke. In this case, you guys are getting far too offended at a crude children’s joke based on nationality. If you’re familiar with the rest of it (involving a cowboy), it kinda makes the American look like a dick. Is it racist against cowboys, who are surely implied to be white?

    I mean, what’s so exclusively political about not wanting people to use racist stereotypes?

    You know that the term isn’t just about politics, right? And how do you determine racism, precisely? Is it by reading a joke like this and assuming it to be so because the foreign person is the butt of the joke and has a false stereotype concerning their use of english? I think it has more to do with sensitivity and overreacting, which is a case where the term “politically correct” is quite accurate for describing how you’re acting. And just to burst your bubble a little more, I’m close to as “leftie” as it comes in the U.S.

    Now the Biologic Insitute it stupid. Really stupid. But where does it imply that Chinese is a dirty language, exactly? Proteins in general are things we tend to like, you know, and they said very little about them in relation to Chinese. All they’re trying to do is say ‘lookit biochemistry, dunnit look like people stuff?’, in which case it’s a direct reference to Chinese possessing the qualities they’re looking for in “design”, almost a compliment to the Chinese language.

  27. #27 Aerik
    May 17, 2008

    Well there’s where you start going wrong and you support racism: you think that it can be innocuous. That’s simply incorrect.

  28. #28 Tyler DiPietro
    May 18, 2008

    Oh for fucks sake, get a life.

  29. #29 Dr Benway
    May 18, 2008

    Teasing and joking around leads to killing people.

  30. #30 Shirakawasuna
    May 18, 2008

    Teasing and joking around leads to killing people.

    Your mom leads to killing people!

  31. #31 William Wallace
    May 18, 2008

    Wow, first “tards”, and now racist jokes. How do you survive at a liberal campus?

  32. #32 William Wallace
    May 18, 2008

    For those who do not know, there was once a racist joke whose punch line was sung in stereotypical fashion:

    Me chinese. Me play joke. Me put pee-pee in your coke.

  33. #33 SC
    May 18, 2008

    For cryin’ out loud. If the reference ERV was making in the original post was unclear (and it was to me as well), she has remedied this in two responses in the comment thread. Google “luke chueh play joke.” See this:

    http://www.lukechueh.com/paintings/me-play-joke.html

    Read this interview:

    http://www.imeem.com/manifestart/blogs/2007/08/03/ykzvmuKW/luke_chueh_interview

    If you still wish to criticize, that’s fine. But please stop being so obtuse.

  34. #34 Brian X
    May 18, 2008

    I could be misinterpreting the intent, but it seems to me that ERV’s idea in using the phrase was to mock the mockers, inasmuch as fundies are probably the ones in our culture most likely to use a phrase like that after knowing how offensive it is.

    I don’t think it was a particularly good choice, and she probably ought to change the post title if the system will allow her to do that. But she’s explained herself and understands the nature of the problem.

    Aerik, I’m going to single you out — you strike me as being singularly inflexible and humorless. ERV made a mistake. It is being addressed, with context and further information. But you haven’t left square one on the issue. I’ve gotten into trouble with misunderstood references on occasion too, and it’s precisely that refusal to back down upon explanation that drove me out of retail work.

  35. #35 Lassi Hippelinen
    May 18, 2008

    You’ve got it wrong. GOD hates Asia.
    http://stuffgodhates.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/21-asia/

  36. #36 David Marjanovi?
    May 18, 2008

    Looks like God is behind the times, the final character, ?, is no longer in Chinese as it has been simplified to ?.

    Only in the PRC and in Singapore. Taiwan still uses the traditional characters, and Japan has made a few of its own simplifications (sometimes identical to the PRC/Singapore ones, sometimes not). So, God is simply not a communist :-

    Using “egg-white” for “protein” is normal, because the closest thing to pure protein normal mortals are likely to encounter is the white of an egg. Lots of European languages do that, too, at least informally. Albumin is also literally white (Latin albumen “white of an egg”, albus/-a/-um “white, but not gleaming white, which is candidus/-a/-um“).

    You need to have a language pack installed to see the characters

    Nonsense. You only need a decent browser, like… wait for it… brace yourself… Internet Explorer for Windows (6 or higher).

    (Not the one for Mac. IE for Mac deserves every single MS prejudice.)

  37. #37 SC
    May 18, 2008

    Sorry, ERV. I just noticed that the painting to which I linked in my comment was the first link in your post. So the reference should have been clear to me (and everyone else) even then, had I/we bothered to click on it.

  38. #38 ERV
    May 18, 2008

    LOL! Its okay, SC– Aerik is evidently just an internet character who is a concern troll. Note his/her post on not listening to ‘Skeptics Guide to the Universe’ podcast because they use lol-cat-speak, and lol cats glorify rape.

    We were all duped by him/her.

  39. #39 Gobaskof
    May 18, 2008

    “Nonsense. You only need a decent browser, like… wait for it… brace yourself… Internet Explorer for Windows (6 or higher).”

    It is so lovely and polite to claim people are talking nonsense when they are only trying to help. On my girl friends PC I can’t see Chinese characters on IE6 or on Firefox. So that explains why I said the above words.
    From my experience it works on all Vista PCs but you need to install or download language packs to get it to work on XP or before.

    Also yes I have been corrected before on the egg white – protein. And on the fact that not everywhere has simplified.
    I have acknowledged this and admitted I was wrong. So why the need to repeat what others have said? Just so you can be one of the clever ones too?

    In closing yes you may be correct, but there is no need to be a dick about it!

  40. #40 Corey
    May 18, 2008

    “What’s especially dumb about ERV’s joke is that nobody learning the English language speaks that way. Seriously. Nobody ever goes on making the mistake of constantly substituting “me” or “I.” The joke, even in this context, belittles the brains of another race.”

    This is silly, first of all because the person must not have followed that first link, but also because some people learning the English language DO indeed speak that way. My little cousin used to. Maybe I used to. I know I used to make the same mistake when learning other languages. And I’ve talked to people who were learning English as their second language, and they made this mistake more than once. It doesn’t belittle anybodies brains too say that sometimes people use the wrong case.

  41. #41 anon
    May 18, 2008

    Ummm… late to the conversation here, but my first impression was that if I heard kids on the playground saying this rhyme I would have words with them. Concern troll that I am sure that I am about to be called.

    The picture you linked to with the coke can was kind of crude, too. A panda peeing into our drinks, while making the point that what comes into the west isn’t always what it should be (toys and petfood anyone) is a little too Lou Dobbs for my liking.

    And now you dismiss a person as a concern troll for lolcats and rape without scrolling down to the middle of their page where they point out blatant racism etc… in the US race for the president. (Tuesday, May 06, 2008
    Off the Easel, KC Star’s Racist Cartoon Column)

    It is kind of funny how people don’t like to look at what they have said that might be a bit inappropriate, but they are so willing to point out the flaws of others, isn’t it?

    As a teacher nice people like you who are only joking make my life so much more difficult than it ought to have to be. It is hard explaining it to kids, but to explain it to adults ……….. if you haven’t learned it by now then I don’t know if you ever will.

  42. #42 ERV
    May 18, 2008

    Shorter concern troll:

    Hai! Im too lazy to read this blog, this post, any of the preceding 40 comments, follow any links, or follow this conversation in general, but Im going to take the time to call someone a racist and lecture to them because Im a giant douche.

    Really, guys, this post is probably at the ‘very easy’ end of my post spectrum as far as reading comprehension goes. If you are honestly finding the process of clicking a link too strenuous, and Chinese-American art too offensive, its probably best you go somewhere else for your information.

    USA TODAY is a nice, inoffensive, hairless, poreless, neutered news source, with stories short enough you can follow along. Look, they even have a science section.

    *points to the door*

  43. #43 Cairnarvon
    May 18, 2008

    Aerik was also in #pharyngula last night, accusing people of sexism. He’s just one of those people who get offended on behalf of people because they think it makes them a better person. As a way of drawing attention away from their own prejudices, it fails miserably.

  44. #44 Thomas S. Howard
    May 19, 2008

    All the concern trolls are missing out on a great opportunity. If you really want to have a good conniption fit about something, you really should spend some time with the rest of Chueh’s art. I fully expect all of you to be horrified and deeply, deeply concerned. Off you go.

  45. #45 Dustin is Offended
    May 19, 2008

    USA TODAY is a nice, inoffensive, hairless, poreless, neutered news source, with stories short enough you can follow along.

    Your tone makes me think that you mean “neutered” and “short enough” in a derisive or pejorative sense. Making these kinds of insinuations about the lack of masculine prowess possessed by USA Today can only mean that you, like other scientists, are engaging in a wontonly phallogocentric epistemology. I AM OFFENDED, YOU SEXIST BIGOT!

  46. #46 Dustin
    May 19, 2008

    I meant “wantonly” up there. All this talk about Chinese protein must have given me a Freudian typo.

  47. #47 Stephen Wells
    May 19, 2008

    That was the best Freudian typo ever, Dustin.

  48. #48 John Kwok
    May 19, 2008

    Hi all,

    My thanks to frequent Uncommon Dissent and Panda’s Thumb poster William Wallace for being so “thoughtful” in posting the original version of that absurd, quite racist, joke about Chinese (and Americans of Chinese descent like yours truly). But what more can you expect from an IDiot like Wallace, who, like his heroes Bill Dembski and Denyse O’Leary, often suffers from an acute case of verbal diarrhea.

    Speaking of jokes, I am reminded of one which was told me by one Frank McCourt back in 1996, a few months before his first bestselling memoir was published. He wondered how I was able to gain access to an event he was hosting – I was photographing it – and observed that if they could let me in, they could let in anyone, including a Korean terrorist (In the interest of full disclosure, I was a prize-winning student of his in a high school creative writing course years ago, sometime back in the PreCambrian.).

    Regards,

    John

  49. #49 William Wallace
    May 19, 2008

    Well, Bill Dembski is not my hero, but it’s clear to me that this is not the first time you’ve made intentionally false statements.

    Assuming you’re the John Kwok, laughingstock Amazon reviewer, who claimed to have read the book “The Design of Life.”

    Yes, I found your review of William Dembski’s and Jonathan Wells’ “The Design of Life,” a book which I have not read, and apparently, neither have you. But that did not stop you from reviewing it, and your review, and subsequent discussion, is quite interesting. Your review is entitled “Teach The Controversies of Evolution” at Amazon dot com.

    Since your review of the book provides no evidence that you bothered to read it, an Amazon commenter named Christopher Grant asked you to provide evidence by submitting a photograph of yourself with the book, to which you cagily claimed:

    I borrowed my copy from the library, and then returned it. Why would I wish to continue owning such pernicious drek as this? More to the point, I am not a mere “photography buff”, but a professional photographer whose work has been published in newspapers and magazines.–John Kwok

    Of course, the bullshit detectors pegged at this point, so Christopher Grant asked

    Do you still stand by your claim to have checked this book out of the library (a library which you for some reason must not name in order to protect the innocent)?–Christopher Grant

    A reasonable question, to which you responded with legal threats:

    Dear Christopher:
    You are bordering perilously close to getting sued, my intellectually-challenged “friend”. I am compelled to protect the identities of friends and relatives who work at this library, which, I will concede only, does exist in the New York City metropolitan area. I strongly suggest that you back off immediately.
    Respectfully submitted,
    John Kwok

    Hmn, but then my *new* hero William Dembski showed up on the scene, and skewered your story that you read the book by checking it out from “the library”.

    To John Kwok and Chris Grant: Until a few days ago, John Kwok was trying to obtain a review copy of DoL from its publisher, the Foundation for Thought and Ethics. When his request was passed along to me, he and I corresponded briefly. He indicated that if he did not receive a free review copy from FTE, he would wait for an available copy from the local library. That email is dated 11.28.07. I can check with FTE’s fulfillment people, but to my knowledge no copies of DoL have yet been delivered to libraries.
    ADDENDUM 12.5.07|2:56PST: I checked with the fulfillment people and no library orders have to date been processed.–William Dembski

    My favorite response, however, was by Dennis T. Tharp:

    Professor Dembski,

    Thanks for definitively showing readers of this exchange John Kwok (who attended a prestigious high school, donchaknow) is a wholesale liar.

    John, I’m warning you, a countersuit will be ready. You are a liar and now we all know it. Your HS might be prestigious, but is now a little less so for producing an alum. such as yourself.–Dennis T. Tharp

    Well, John, I agree with Dennis T. Tharp, and furthermore, I think you’re an asshole. Stuyvesant High School may be prestigious, if you really went there, and your highschool alum may be lawyers as you claim, but like Mr. Tharp, and taking a play our of your playbook, let me preemptively caution you: I went to North High School in North Minneapolis, which has a summa-tech magnet program for students gifted in math and science. North High school is not so prestigious, however–in my day, we brought knives for personal protection to junior high, and Saturday night specials to high school. Furthermore, I recently visited with an alumni who is about to be released from prison.

    Who do you think has better friends, you equivocating punk?

    P.S. Anybody else want to bet that John Kwok and Keith Eaton are one in the same? But the tricky part is: whose side is he really on?

    I wonder why a man who claims to be Chinese would attack me for describing in words what ERV linked to (a panda pissing in a can of coke). Could it be that he’s not Chinese? Nah….

  50. #50 Dustin
    May 20, 2008

    Wait… is William making veiled threats with his slide rule or with his shiv? I can’t tell.

  51. #51 WilliamWallaceII
    May 20, 2008

    Dustin, William is not making veiled threats, he is babbling incoherently and illiterately from some Kim Basinger feel-good, patronizing gangsta film – “duh (beating probably hairless chest), me he-man, me got crim friends in da hood”. Grow some bollocks William, like the man whose name you besmirch by posting under it.

  52. #52 windy
    May 20, 2008

    First it’s the biologic institute’s implication that the Chinese written languages are dirty and primitive since they look like germs and germ stuff,

    Eh, where are you getting this from? Proteins are “germ stuff”?

  53. #53 John Kwok
    May 20, 2008

    Dear William Wallace:

    Why don’t you crawl back from whence you came (Uncommon Dissent) and hang out with your fellow intellectually-challenged IDiots posting there? If you are a descendant of the great William Wallace, then I must say that yours is a family that has literally sunk to the nadir of human intellectual capacity, judging from your frequently bizarre, always inane, posts at Uncommon Dissent and Panda’s Thumb.

    You have the chutzpah to call me a liar? Why don’t you take a real, hard luck for yourself in the mirror?

    As for someone who is indeed a genuine liar, thief and con artist extraordinaire, I must nominate my “pal” Bill Dembski; an assessment which many would agree with, including not only Abbie Smith, but also my friend Ken Miller, noted Brown University cell biologist and Jerry Coyne, eminent University of Chicago evolutionary geneticist
    (whom I had the pleasure of meeting here in New York City at the Rockefeller University evolution symposium on May 1st.). Why?

    Here’s why:

    1) Bill committed the legal equivalent of grand theft larceny against the Dover (PA) school board, by charging them $20,000 for “services rendered” as a potential defense witness, then declining to serve as such when he could not have his private attorney represent him during the 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District trial.

    2) Bill had a clip of someone farting associated with his online essay critical of Judge John E. Jones after Jones’ historic ruling at the end of the 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover trial.

    3)Bill contacted the U. S. Department of Homeland Security two years ago, requesting that they investigate eminent University of Texas ecologist Eric Pianka as a “potential bioterrorist”.

    4) Bill orchestrated a “death threat” campaign against eminent University of Texas ecologist Eric Pianka and the Texas Academy of Sciences.

    5) Almost exactly one year ago, Bill, along with his fellow intellectually-challenged Uncommon Dissent pals (including Mike Behe) held an online “roasting” of Johns Hopkins biochemist David Levin, simply because Levin had spotted some errors in Behe’s “research”.

    6) Bill made a rather crude, quite despicable, comparison of notable University of Chicago evolutionary geneticist Jerry Coyne with Herman Munster at Uncommon Dissent last year (Jerry thought that Bill’s act was truly a very “low blow”.)

    7) Bill followed up this bizarre display of infantile behavior with another Uncommon Dissent comparison of distinguished University of California, Berkeley paleobiologist Kevin Padian with Archie Bunker, “rhetorically” asking whether Padian was the “Archie Bunker of evolutionary biology”.

    8) Bill has admitted at Uncommon Dissent – with ample malicious intent – that he stole a Harvard University cell animation video made by the Connecticut-based video production company XVIVO (This has been noted by others, including Abbie Smith, and David Bolinsky, XVIVO’s president, elsewhere online.).

    9) Last December, Bill tried to exercise a crude form of censorship against yours truly by asking Amazon.com to delete my harsh, but accurate, review of Bill’s latest published example of mendacious intellectual pornography, otherwise known as “The Design of Life” (which I did read, but won’t admit how I obtained a copy). He also organized an online smear campaign against me, which IDiot William Wallace has noted in his latest post here.

    10) Almost two weeks ago, at Uncommon Dissent, Bill had the gall to whine and to moan about “rich Darwinists” like Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Francisco Ayala and Ken Miller for “making money” off of evolution. He also made the inane observation that we ought to support Intelligent Design since it is a “middle class” idea, whereas evolution is an “upper class” idea. Bill also made the absurd claim that he is a member of the middle class, when the real truth is that he is a graduate of a prestigious Catholic boarding school (Portsmouth Abbey), and had, growing up, a childhood that was far more “upper class” than either mine or Ken Miller’s.

    William Wallace contends that I have no right to “brag” about my high school alma mater, Stuyvesant High School, but I most certainly do for the following reasons:

    1) Stuyvesant is regarded by many as the premier American high school devoted to the sciences, mathematics and technology.

    2) Stuyvesant has had many distinguished alumni, not only its four Nobel Prize-winning laureates in the sciences, medicine and economics, but also distinguished scientists like physicists Brian Greene and Lisa Randall, molecular biologist Eric Lander (who lead one of the teams that sequenced successfully the human genome a few years ago), noted historians and economists like Lewis Mumford, Samuel Huntington and Thomas Sowell, political pundit Dick Morris, and famous actors such as James Cagney, Ron Silver, Tim Robbins and Lucy Liu (Best-selling memoirist Frank McCourt isn’t a fellow alumnus, but instead, a former, still popular, member of Stuyvesant’s faculty.).

    3) Stuyvesant’s current principal has pledged that Intelligent Design will never be taught there as long as he continues to serve as principal (I made this observation to Bill Dembski in private e-mail correspondence, and his reply was that he knew many Texas high school principals who wanted ID only, not evolution, to be taught in their science classes. Bill couldn’t answer at all, when I observed that Stuyvesant’s principal also teaches an advanced introductory physics course to one class of entering freshmen, and then, I asked whether any of these principals teach a similar course too.).

    Ken Miller, Jerry Coyne, Eugenie Scott, and I are frankly fed up with Bill Dembski’s “frat boy antics”. If he wishes to be taken seriously, then he’d better start submitting his “research” to peer-reviewed journals, AND act like a responsible adult online.

    So, in conclusion, my dear delusional William Wallace, if anyone should be regarded as a liar and hypocrite, it isn’t me, but instead, my “pal” Bill Dembski.

    Live Long and Prosper (as a DI IDiot Borg drone),

    John Kwok

  54. #54 William Wallace
    May 21, 2008

    Sorry, mostly parody. Also, ERV you still owe ethnic Chinese an apology.

  55. #55 Der Bruno Stroszek
    May 21, 2008

    If Chinese people are offended, they can speak for themselves. They don’t need little weaselly trolls like you to speak on their behalf.

  56. #56 John Kwok
    May 21, 2008

    It’s hysterical that William Wallace thinks that Abbie owes
    ethnic Chinese an apology, when he refuses to apologize for his bizarre behavior against me. Or even try to come to grips with the dishonest, hypocritical behavior of one Bill Dembski, which includes theft, as long as it is done in the name of Jesus Christ. I submit that Dembski’s reprehensible acts are more worthy of apologies and acts of contrition than Abbie’s unexpected gaffe (Incidentally, she has apologized to me in private.).

    John

  57. #57 William Wallace
    May 22, 2008

    Incidentally, she has apologized to me in private.

    Hmn, I wonder why, since you weren’t the target.

  58. #58 Dale Husband
    May 22, 2008

    I thought William Wallace was Scottish.

    If not, then he owes the SCOTS an apology.

    We all know what a deranged ass he is.

    As for his namesake:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wallace

    Following the trial, on 23 August 1305, Wallace was taken from the hall, stripped naked and dragged through the city at the heels of a horse to the Elms at Smithfield. He was hanged, drawn and quartered � strangled by hanging but released while still alive, emasculated, eviscerated and his bowels burnt before him, beheaded, then cut into four parts. His preserved head was placed on a pike atop London Bridge. It was later joined by the heads of his brothers, John, and Simon Fraser. His limbs were displayed, separately, in Newcastle, Berwick, Stirling, and Aberdeen.

  59. #59 Ramon
    May 22, 2008

    The title of this post sounds racist.

  60. #60 John Kwok
    May 22, 2008

    It is obvious to me that William Wallace is such a delusional IDiot, that he seems incapable of addressing the issue as to whether Bill Dembski ought to start atoning for his numerous misdeeds of which some of the most egregious are those I have posted here recently. He’s so delusional that he probably still thinks that Abbie owes me and others of Chinese descent an apology.

    It seems as though William Wallace has been banned from Panda’s Thumb for his obnoxious, rather inappropriate, online behavior. I suggest that a similar course of action be followed here at this blog.

    John

  61. #61 William Wallace
    May 22, 2008

    He’s so delusional that he probably still thinks that Abbie owes me and others of Chinese descent an apology.

    You *claim* she already apologized to you, even though you weren’t the target. Since I have already acknowledged your claim that she apologized to you, it would seem that you’re the one who is delusional.

    Furthermore, a subject of this entry is not William Dembski, who, as already recounted, eviscerated you at your Amazon review of his book by demonstrating the impossibility of your claims, and thus puts all of your assertions into the category “unreliable”.

    A subject of this entry is a joke that mocks the way new Chinese learn English, and continues to ascribe a racist and stereotypical sneakiness to the Chinese.

    Even Ramon understands that ERV’s references sound racist.

    Does ERV wish to apologize for furthering the stereotype that Chinese are not to be trusted, and will even piss in your coke if you don’t watch them?

  62. #62 ERV
    May 22, 2008

    I apologized to John because hes a friend.

    If a random concern troll finds it too laborious to click on a clearly posted link, I dont give a rats ass.

    Wallace, if you are illiterate to such a degree you havent noticed that the posted painting is by a Chinese American artist, even though it has been pointed out numerous times in the comments, then there isnt really anything I can do for you, is there? Thats a problem that should have been resolved in kindergarten.

  63. #63 John Kwok
    May 22, 2008

    Hi Abbie,

    Our dear delusional “pal” William Wallace is suffering again from a most acute case of verbal diarrhea. If he truly believes that Dembski “eviscerated” me, then why was my review posted back at Amazon.com within a day of its prior deletion at the behest of Dembski (In plain English, he had demanded a crude form of censorship against me simply because I had written a harshly negative, but accurate, review of his latest published example of mendacious intellectual porngoraphy.)? Just to remind poor dear William, Dembski had no choice but to ask Amazon.com to reinstate my review after I sent him an e-mail ultimatum to do so or else suffer the consequences.

    It’s incredulous that dear delusional William Wallace continues to support his “hero” Bill Dembski, inspite of Dembski’s ample instances of lies, theft, and other chicanery that have been duly noted not only by me, but also by Abbie, P Z Myers, Wes Elsberry, Nick Matzke, Genie Scott, Robert Pennock, Jeffrey Shallit and others posting elsewhere online and also in print, either as journal articles or books.

    I believe Abbie has said enough at this thread already and doesn’t need to defend herself further. On the other hand, William Wallace, if you can’t behave decently online here, then please take your dog and pony show routine back from whence you came; in other words, Uncommon Dissent. There, I hope, you will continue enjoying your membership as yet another intellectually-challenged Disco Tute IDiot Borg drone in the DI IDiot Borg Collective.

    So, in closing, William Wallace, I wish you…..

    Peace and Long Life (as a DI IDiot Borg drone),

    John Kwok

  64. #64 Dale Husband
    May 22, 2008

    And I suppose protesting against the corrupt trading practices of the Chinese, aided and abetted by the equally corrupt American business environment, is also racist?

    LOL!

  65. #65 John Kwok
    May 22, 2008

    Dear Dale,

    As bad as the “corrupt trading practices of the Chinese” are, I think you might agree that what is worst is their abysmal record on human rights, of which the recent unrest in Tibet is merely the latest example.

    Regards,

    John

  66. #66 William Wallace
    May 23, 2008

    Wallace, if you are illiterate to such a degree you havent noticed that the posted painting is by a Chinese American artist, even though it has been pointed out numerous times in the comments, then there isnt really anything I can do for you, is there?

    Oh, I get it. It’s okay to promote racist stereotypes if you can find a source that is the race who is being stereo-typed.

    Got it. (not)

    Why did you apologize again? ‘Cause he’s a friend, or ’cause you were wrong?

  67. #67 Tyler DiPietro
    May 23, 2008

    All Italians are in the mob. Plus we are all boorish morons who talk with our hands. Everyone who sees this can quote me on that.

  68. #68 Dustin
    May 23, 2008

    Furthermore, a subject of this entry is not William Dembski, who, as already recounted, eviscerated you at your Amazon review of his book by demonstrating the impossibility of your claims, and thus puts all of your assertions into the category “unreliable”.

    Actually, he even summarized his rebuttal in this very nicely produced lecture.

  69. #69 John Kwok
    May 23, 2008

    Dear William Wallace:

    If you post again yet another inane remark of yours about Abbie’s apology, then I am really tempted to go looking for a hungry python for you to “entertain”. As far as I am concerned, the more you post your inane remarks here, the more likely I think you are best suited as potential python chow.

    Live Long and Prosper (as a DI IDiot Borg drone),

    John Kwok

  70. #70 William Wallace
    April 6, 2009

    LOL. I told you this guy John Kwok was a mole.

    The penetrating clarity of my observations amaze even me sometimes.

    John: Get your python ready…

    ERV, do you regret apologizing to your friend, yet?

  71. #71 Fu Manchu Jr.
    December 24, 2009

    你们都智力迟钝!

  72. #72 Optimus Primate
    December 24, 2009

    According to Babel Fish, Fu Manchu Jr. just said, and I quote, “Your mental retardation!”

    One can only assume he was talking about Willy Wally.

  73. #73 Tyler DiPietro
    December 26, 2009

    Black people.

  74. #74 minimalist
    December 28, 2009
  75. #75 Optimus Primate
    December 28, 2009

    I’m so confused.

  76. #76 The Chimp's Raging Id
    January 1, 2010

    Me too. However, the sight of Kw*k and Limp Willy arguing with each other made it worth the visit.

    Was this a BUMP?

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