A Few Things Ill Considered

NCSIDC has it’s monthly analysis for September done and as expected, it ain’t pretty.

Arctic sea ice extent averaged for September 2012 was the lowest in the satellite record, and was 16% lower than the previous low for the month, which occurred in 2007. Through 2012, the linear rate of decline for September Arctic ice extent over the satellite record is now 13.0% per decade, relative to the 1979 to 2000 average. The six lowest September ice extents over the satellite record have all occurred in the last six years. Compared to the 1979 to 2000 average ice conditions, the September 2012 ice cover represents a 49% reduction in the area of the Arctic Ocean covered by sea ice. It is 2.91 million square kilometers (1.12 million square miles), or 45%, below the 30-year average over 1981 to 2010.

And don’t let the denial crowd distract you with antarctic sea ice, which also set a record.  These two records are <cough> poles apart!  Just compare the images below and note where the grey 2 standard deviation area is in relation to the record breaking observations.

These are not comparable events.  And don’t buy the denialist line that the extreme arctic melt was all due to weather.  True that there was an unusual, strong and long-lived arctic cyclone in mid August, but melt rates before and after were still unusually high.  The main factor was the young age (thinness) of the ice which is a result of climate change.  More on the weather:

Weather conditions prevailing over the summer of 2012 were quite different from those in 2007. The summer of 2007 featured unusually high sea level pressure centered north of the Beaufort Sea and Greenland, and unusually low pressure along northern Eurasia, bringing in warm southerly winds along the shores of the East Siberian and Chukchi seas (3 to 5 degrees Celsius, or 5 to 9 degrees Fahrenheit above normal), favoring strong ice melt in these sectors and pushing the ice away from the coast, leaving open water. The pressure pattern also favored the transport of ice out of the Arctic Ocean and into the North Atlantic through Fram Strait.

In contrast, the summer of 2012 saw unusually low pressure along the Eurasian coastal seas and extending eastward into the Beaufort sea, most prominently over the East Siberian Sea, with unusually high pressure centered over Greenland and the northern North Atlantic. Air temperatures for summer 2012 were above average over most of the Arctic Ocean (1 to 3 degrees Celsius, or 2 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit), most prominently over the Beaufort Sea, where

So, 3-5 oC above normal in 2007, only 1 to 3 oC above normal this year. Speaking of the age of the ice, don’t miss this graphic:

Older ice is vanishing from the arctic ocean

Check out the press release for more details about this years truly extraordinary melt season, and be sure the record breaking is not over yet.

But it will be soon.





  1. #1 kai
    October 5, 2012

    like hockey stick manipulator michael mann, you do the same methodological fraud with arctic sea ice extent when you mix satellite derived data with none-satellite data: this is part of postnormal science doings of mixing data when useful in order to demonstrate non-existing facts

  2. #2 exusian
    October 6, 2012

    What’s postnormal is the ease of kai’s complete denial of physical reality with a perfectly straight face.

    But then what do you expect from the paranoid conspiracy theory fringe?

  3. #3 Wow
    October 6, 2012

    You’ll notice that kai isn’t actually ignoring anything actively, they’re on;y posting completely irrelevant bollocks.

    A sort of “Look! Squirrels!” attempt.

  4. #4 Windchasers
    October 6, 2012

    Aww, don’t be too hard on him. He probably read that criticism on some other blog, didn’t give it too much thought, and just re-posted it.
    He doesn’t seem to know much about how science is actually done. We mix different types of data all the time. I can find you a hundred graphs which put theory predictions and experimental values on the *same* figure. (OMG!). Clearly labelled, of course, so you can see how the two compare. And in this case, his criticism is completely irrelevant, as the satellite and non-satellite trends are not significantly different.

    On second thought: Yeah, be hard on him. People should get a hard time when speaking out of ignorance.

  5. #5 Wow
    October 6, 2012

    Isn’t it weird how deniers, when faced with catastrphic floods or heatwaves go on and on (and on and on…) about how you CANNOT *prove* that the flood/heatwave/whatever was done by global warming and how it could have been something else because floods/etc have happened before.

    Yet when the sea ice collapses, despite sea ice extent dropping before without the intervention of a huge storm, they see no need to *prove* that the sea ice break up was *caused* by the storm. Even though similar storms have been seen before without causing the sea ice to break up like this.

    Its as if they have a different standard for their own proclamations isn’t it.

  6. #6 kai
    October 7, 2012

    windblower “He doesn’t seem to know much about how science is actually done”

    hahaha, when such whistleblowers and green dirt specialists like you talk about science i get constant fits of vomiting and compelling yelling about such a degree of imbecility which i have never thought possible. only complete science ignorants and scientific nullls can say such bullshit about mixing apples and grapes in scientific charts. your rotten view of true science should go to hell, to hell, you mean small science traitor, it should go to hell, shame in you for spoiling science in such amean way as you do, you non-scientist, but primitive layman.

    i cannot recover from the bullshit the green leftist activists are standing for, incredible, incredible, incredible how low the intellectual level there really is, even lower than one can imagine

  7. #7 Marco
    October 7, 2012

    Figure 1: Fully 100% satellite-derived data
    Ibid Figure 2A+B
    Ibid Figure 3.

    kai = FAIL!

  8. #8 Vince Whirlwind
    October 7, 2012

    Kai, if you want to talk about ignorance, why not look closer to home? Your literacy level would shame a 7-year-old. Did you receive no schooling at all?

    And as far as bullshit goes – well, same deal really. This article presents some facts. You respond with utter nonsense.

    So you’ve demonstrated to us that you are a powerfully ignorant liar. Own goal, or what?

  9. #9 Wow
    October 7, 2012

    Vinny, kai *is* seven years old.

  10. #10 Moody834
    Sunny Solar-Powered California
    October 8, 2012

    This is a friendly reminder from “Teh Intarwebtubes”: Do not feed the trolls. “Kai”, for instance, is a troll. Clearly. There will be nothing gained from interacting with “Kai”. In a lot of ways, “Kai” is like a zombie, just mindlessly trying to eat you from the other side of a fence. The zombie can’t get to you (it’s not smart at all), and it’s a waste of effort bopping it on the noggin when there is a whole horde of them. Really, what needs to happen is that we find a cure for the Monckton-Koch virus (a.k.a., the “fossil fuel flu”).

  11. #11 mandas
    October 8, 2012

    I saw an episode of an excellent TV series on the weekend called ‘The Newsroom’, with Jeff Daniels.

    The episode in question included a sub-plot where Neal Sampat (Dev Patal) wants to do a story on internet trolls. To do so, he has to join an on-line ‘club’ by proving his worth by trolling a site and distracting the converstion.

    Remind everyone of anything?

    Lesson – Moody is right. The best way to deal with trolls is to totally ignore them.

  12. #12 kai
    October 8, 2012

    windchasers confessed: “We mix different types of data all the time”

    aha, look at this science traitor!! shame on you, windchasers!!

    whirlpool, mandas and wow behave like ill-mannered brats here! do better and improve your knowledge before you write your insane nonsense, please

  13. #13 Wow
    October 8, 2012

    ““Kai” is like a zombie, just mindlessly trying to eat you from the other side of a fence.”


    They’re abusing those who think free speech is the absolute pinnacle of necessity and will therefore not delete any post no matter how irrelevant or assinine.

    They themselves have no problem in shouting down others and refusing voices (See WTFUWT for numerous examples).

    kai should be kicked off.

  14. #14 Debunker
    October 9, 2012

    I read an interesting post recently from a guy who was stalked by some troll who turned out to be the 17 year old son of a friend of his. So my question for Kai is; tell us a bit about yourself. Where are you from? How old are you? What is your scientific education that you feel that you are the only arbiter of the scientific method? We can excuse your lack of command of the English language if English is not your first language, but frankly, so far, you give the impression of a poorly educated teenager just trying to stir up the adults. Please prove us wrong.

  15. […] 2012/10/05: AFTIC: September monthly arctic sea ice extent smashes previous record […]

  16. #16 kai
    October 9, 2012

    debunker perceives himself on he right site of everything: he is wrong. as a climate dreamer he is betraying himself since global temperatures do not rise since 14 years and alarmistiically faked satellite altimetry data show yeary sea level rises of hardly 2mm.

    you desperate warmist co2 fools don’t reailise that you are slaves of your limited perception of being misused by your climate gurus (gore, hansen, jones, mann, trenberth, etc.), and you enjoy being slaves, you poor pigs

  17. #17 Wow
    October 9, 2012

    Debunker has his questions answered. Indirectly.

  18. #18 Debunker
    October 9, 2012

    As Wow correctly observes, Kai is incapable of engaging in meaningful dialogue, hence proving that he is, more than likely, a somewhat poorly educated teenager with limited social skills who enjoys stirring up the adults. Thanks Kai, for clearing that up for us!

  19. #19 exusian
    October 10, 2012

    ” Kai is incapable of engaging in meaningful dialogue”

    Yep, basically little more than a useless food tube.

  20. #20 kai
    October 10, 2012

    debunker, you are even not compliant with ipcc’s primitive probability expressions: “that he is, more than likely”

    could you give a numeric measure of likelihood instead of your poor mainstream laymen wording ?

  21. #21 Debunker
    October 10, 2012

    Kai, your words to another poster:

    “your rotten view of true science should go to hell, to hell, you mean small science traitor, it should go to hell”

    These are not the words of an adult, this is a child having a tantrum. .

  22. #22 kai
    October 11, 2012

    debunker, your total ignorance of decent scientic principles prevents you from understanding what i tried to teach you. as was to be expected any effort to explain to you what science really is is totally useless. instead you react with utter ignorance and arrogance. that’s typical agw hysteric climate slaves, you poor non-performers

  23. #23 exusian
    October 11, 2012

    And that sad, pathetic child’s tantrum continues unabated.

  24. #24 Wow
    October 11, 2012

    Because he thinks that’s what you do online and his parents don’t know or care what he does.


  25. #25 kai
    October 11, 2012

    you idiots will be not be happy with your insane arrogance without any basis

  26. #26 mandas
    October 11, 2012

    Some interesting reading on the differences between the changes in the Arctic and Antarctic:


    There is also an article on what might happen next year, here:


    Although it is too early to make valid predictions based on observations (evident from what is said in the article), the author (Larry Hamilton) has generally been quite good in his predictions in the past few years. There is more information on how accurate the various models etc are, at this post at Scepticalscience:


    Note that deniers like wattsupmybutt are always the worst predicters, and they always grossly over estimate what will occur. I guess there is nothing like using ideology rather than evidence to draw conclusions.

  27. #27 Wow
    October 11, 2012

    Seen Bastardi’s prediction for ice this year?

    Seems the lad was a bit wrong.

    Shame nobody who listens to him considers when he says “I’ve got a model and it’s been right so far” whether he’s actually telling the truth there.

  28. #28 mandas
    October 11, 2012

    Yeah, well Bastardi has been wrong more often that just about anyone. It’s a problem when you have no expertise, and base your predictions on ideology rather than evidence.

    He is right at home at Faux News.

  29. #29 Wow
    October 11, 2012

    Where they have their eagle eyes on the climate scientists who say AGW is a problem and, “unfortunately” no time left to check up on any claims by Bastardi.

  30. #30 kai
    October 13, 2012

    wow, but i will be right 100% that summer arctic sea ice extent will never reach the 2012 extent minimum in the next 8 years and i bet 10’000.- us dollars

  31. #31 Vince Whirlwind
    October 13, 2012

    I notice “kai” is still typing nonsense lacking even the most rudimentary level of literacy that you would expect of any 9-year-old.

    “kai”, if you demonstrably can’t even grasp primary-school-level english, don’t you think your grasp of logic, maths and science makes you look four-fold foolish?

  32. #32 Vince Whirlwind
    October 13, 2012

    More to the point, the record low having been set 4 times in the last 11 years, your bet is clearly the work of an extraordinarily feeble mind.

  33. #33 Wow
    October 13, 2012

    kai, how long will it take you to save 10,000 dollars from your pocket money?

    Tell you what, pop back here next september and eat crow.

  34. #34 exusian
    October 14, 2012

    kai = the sputtering of unhinged conspiracy theory full of sound and fury but signifying nothing.

    Sadly, it is what happens when some peoples’ world view becomes divorced from reality and increasingly marginalized.

  35. #35 kai
    October 14, 2012

    who of you cowards and blatherskites, wow, whirlpool, mandas etc. dares to risk your OWN money to bet that in the next few years there will be a new arctic sea ice minimum, you terrible hypocrites and decadents : RISK YOUR MONEY IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU TRY TO STICK TO YOUR HYSTERIC CLIMATE CO2 CATASTROPHE CONVICTION

  36. #36 coby
    October 14, 2012

    kai, this is clearly such an easy win. The fact that no one jumps to take you up on your bet is that none of us believe for a second that you are sincere or that there is any probability statistically distinguishable from 0, that you would ever pay.

    However, that said, I will gladly take you up on a $10,000US bet that a new record low in the arctic sea ice extent as reported by NSIDC will be set on or before October 2020. You may choose if you prefer that to be a daily reading or a monthly average.

  37. #37 mandas
    October 14, 2012

    Hi Coby

    I am happy to hold the money. If both you and kia can send me a cheque for $10,000 I will ensure it goes to the winner.

  38. #38 Wow
    October 14, 2012

    Bank escrow is possible to hold the money for the bet.

    kai will have to ask his parents, though, for the loan.

  39. #39 Debunker
    October 15, 2012

    Kai, Have you actually looked at the graph at the beginning of this post? Even just eye-balling it, you can tell that the loss is actually accelerating. Why, for what reason, would it reverse itself? What do you believe is going to change in the next few years? Is ‘natural variation’ all of a sudden going to reverse it?

    For that to happen, you would have to have some natural forcing that would push it in the opposite direction. No such forcing exists. The ice volume graphs are even worse. We have lost 80% of the ice volume in the Arctic in 30 years. This is unprecedented probably in the history of the planet. Sure, there have been times in the geological past when there have been no ice caps, but these changes happened very slowly, over many thousands, if not millions of years.

    Something is seriously wrong if this can happen so quickly. To put it simply, it is not a natural change. The only way you could possibly deny the seriousness of this is if you think the satellite data have been faked. To believe this you would also have to believe that ships logs, and traveller reports and satellite photos, along with met station data have been faked also.

    If you accept that the graphs are real, then I really can’t see by what twisted logic you expect the situation to reverse itself..

  40. #40 Wow
    October 15, 2012

    Debunker, kai is just bellyaching. Doesn’t have ten grand and won’t pay up even if he did.

    Just your average pre-teen troll.

  41. #41 Mal Adapted
    October 16, 2012

    Just your average pre-teen troll.

    I still say kai is a ‘bot. It doesn’t pass the turing test.

  42. #42 Wow
    October 16, 2012

    Neither would most teens…

  43. #43 Debunker
    October 17, 2012

    It appears Kai has left the building…
    Not surprising really. He didn’t expect to get taken up on his ridiculous bet….

  44. #44 Wow
    October 17, 2012

    Maybe he’s trying to find his real email address so that Coby can see the colour of his money!

  45. #45 Debunker
    October 19, 2012


    He suddenly realised he couldn’t fund it out of his pocket money…..

  46. #46 kai
    October 19, 2012

    incredible increase in arctic sea ice extent since one month, nearly 6mio km2 again: a record increase: this is climate, therefore no agw here

    cowards debunker, wow, mandas: what about you in risking your money in the 10000 $ bet?

  47. #47 Wow
    October 19, 2012

    Yes, every winter when the sun stops appearing over the horizon, the arctic sea starts freezing, kai.

    Apparently the miracle of nature of “Winter” has passed you by these past eight or nine years of your life.

  48. #48 Marco
    October 20, 2012

    Can we assume, Kai, that you have accepted Coby’s offer? In that case you better indicate how you would like to arrange payment, or your response here is just another dud.

  49. #49 kai
    October 21, 2012

    all sick agw brains here:

    your data (temperatures, sea level) are all corrupt, manipulated until nausea and vomiting, and low intelligence commenters like wow belief in religious lies. all the mainstream co2 hysterics have no knowledge of satellite altimetry shortcomings, methodologicsl deficencies of global temperature calculation (e.g. no air temperature data from more than 99.99999% of the 510mio. km2 of the earth’s surface.

    when agw liers will have been imprisoned for some time by justice they shall only be pardoned on strict exams of moral, ethical and intellectual improvements, especially in the field of logical thinking, i.e. the ability to conclude that agw is utter bullshit

  50. #50 Marco
    October 21, 2012

    Ah, Kai is already running away from his own challenge by just declaring the data “corrupt” and “manipulated”.

    Kai’s a whimp.

  51. #51 kai
    October 21, 2012

    marco, for once you as a low level agw hysteric commenter are right, as i feel in effect be in the scientific position to whip all you low intellect co2 mainstream people symbolically until you understand your climate frauds

  52. #52 Wow
    October 21, 2012

    We need the colour of your money, kai, not the red of your apoplectic rage.

  53. #53 Marco
    October 21, 2012

    Kai admits to being a coward, that’s a start.

    Next thing is that he admits he has no clue about science whatsoever; his “scientific position” is that his opinion is right, and everyone else, screw the facts, they don’t exist unless they fit his ideological position. Am I right again, Kai?

  54. #54 Mlax
    October 23, 2012

    Kai is best friends with Biel Roag.
    That said, it might also be time to invoke Poe’s Law, just to cover all bases.

  55. #55 Jan
    October 23, 2012

    Kai is one of the worst imposters I have ever come across (and of course, an idiot on top of being a troll).

    He actually claims to be fluent in a dozen or so languages, to be a highly gifted musician, have a vast knowledge of all kinds of subjects and above all, to be the CEO and owner of several companies with a fortune that is close to a billion $.

    He also posts in another language and the postings he leaves at some other blogs are just as bad and insulting as they are here. Needless to mention that the contents of these postings are also void of any sensible content.

  56. #56 kai
    October 23, 2012

    jan, how do you define “sensible content”, is this something you can eat?

  57. #57 Wow
    October 23, 2012
  58. #58 kai
    October 24, 2012

    ++++ urgent climate ticker message ++++++++ urgent +++++ urgent

    record doubling of arctic sea ice extent within little more than 1 month

     The latest value : 6,825,781 km2 (October 22, 2012)  

    agw cacaphonics can now hail the end of catastropic flooding danger. bravo!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    agw has ended, agw has ended, and the climate insanes wow, mandas, debunker, jan and others can return to a decent and honest life and hope that people forget their idiocies

  59. #59 Wow
    October 24, 2012

    Hmm. Yes. Winter.

    I guess that would be a newsflash for you, kid.

    Expect the same recovery next winter.

  60. #60 kai
    October 24, 2012

    wow, i know you hate facts which don’t reflect your warming hallucinations. therefore your respectful comment: “winter”

    why do you hate winter?

  61. #61 kai
    October 24, 2012

    jan “an idiot on top of a troll”: go home to fuck old germany with your pitoyable hypocrite german angst and try to improve your extremely ridiculous knowledge about climate and weather. nobody likes you here, you poor pig

  62. #62 Wow
    October 24, 2012

    why do you find winter suprising, kai?

  63. #63 kai
    October 24, 2012

    again bad luck for agw climate alarmists:

    current climate data from the south pole:

    Wind from the E (080 degrees) at 10 MPH (9 KT)
    Visibility 3 mile(s)
    Sky conditions mostly clear
    Weather Ice crystals
    Temperature -56 F (-49 C)
    Windchill -85 F (-65 C)
    Pressure (altimeter) 28.47 in. Hg (964 hPa)

    the temperatures on the antarctic ice shields are soooooooo low that there will be no melting of ice in hundred thousands of years.

    climate alarmists, you poor pigs, you have lost a further battle of argumentation against honest decent climate truth advicats like me.

  64. #64 kai
    October 24, 2012

    wow, winter is very suprising for you, as you climate grogs deny winter climate phenomena: snowfall, glacier growth, etc.

    when it’s getting colder then you undergo psychic troubles. and i enjoy your anger about cooling worlds, hahahahahaha, you poor pig

  65. #65 Wow
    October 24, 2012

    why is winter coming around this time of year ALWAYS suprising you, kid?

  66. #66 agwisreal
    October 26, 2012

    Kai is missing the point. Yes, it’s cold at the south pole. For now. And yes, IF temperatures stayed that low, then the ice there wouldn’t melt. But it was cold at the north pole a century ago. No one then, other than Svante Arrhenius, imagined that anything like we are now seeing could happen.

    But it did.

    The absence of solid pack ice over much of the Arctic this September is a fact. It’s not a methodological quirk. It’s not something that can be argued away. We have the photos from space. Case closed.

  67. #67 Jan
    October 26, 2012


    please do not take anything kai says seriously. He is an absolute idiot and only wants to provoke.

    That poor chap probably does not have a job nor any friends, so he compensates his misery by going around blogs, tying to insult people and prentending to be a rich know-all, while in reality he does not know anything about climate issues.

    He is best dealt with by totally ignoring him.

  68. #68 Wow
    October 26, 2012

    I think he’s sockpuppeting now as incomplete idiocy or whatever handle he’s pretending. He’s also using different and fake email addresses.

  69. #69 kai
    October 26, 2012

    jan, as always, your everything is bullshit, and english a shame:

    “please do not take anything kai says seriously”

    correction of the poorly educated terribly bad pupil:

    “please do not take anything kai says serious”

    but even this is far above the horizon and perception of the terrible german underperformer jan, who tries to deceive the public with his hallucinations.

    jan, go home to your fuck old gernany, nobody likes you here

  70. #70 kai
    October 26, 2012

    +++++++++ urgent message +++++++++++ urgent message +++++

    arctice sea ice extent dramatically increasing, continues

     The latest value : 7,112,031 km2 (October 25, 2012)  

    the co2 climate hysterics will bite deep in their asses because of anger, since they don’t like low temperatures and lot’s of ice, these poor pigs

  71. #71 Wow
    October 27, 2012

    Gosh, you don’t mean that winter lasts longer than three days now, do you?

  72. #72 kai
    October 27, 2012

    wow, masterpiece in logics: don’t you, do you. only a split brain can excrement such a bullshit. bravo wow, you made it, even among agw hysterics you play in a minor intellectual league

  73. #73 Wow
    October 27, 2012

    Compared to you? Definitely.

    It’s still winter.

    Yet somehow this, to you, is a newsflash.

  74. #74 Wow
    October 27, 2012

    ++++ Antarctic sea ice collapses over last two weeks!


    NOTE THE DROP SINCE 22nd Sept!

    Despite the denialists claims of a cooling planet, ANTARCTICA PROVES THEM WRONG

  75. #75 kai
    October 27, 2012

    wow, compared to me you are only an ugly dwarf with unsurmountable inferiority complexes. i would never let employ in one of my enterprises such an underperformer as you, mandas or debunker. i am superior to you in any dimension you might imagine

  76. #76 Wow
    October 27, 2012

    ++++ Antarctic sea ice collapses over last two weeks!

  77. #77 kai
    October 27, 2012

    wow, you are really a true plain idiot: didn’t you fool know that it’s damn cold on antarctica and no ice melts there. incredible such an ignorance!! i will inform al gore and the us justice department about your flaws

  78. #78 Wow
    October 27, 2012

    what have you got against summer?

  79. #79 Jan
    October 27, 2012


    kai is not only a bragging idiot, he is also completely ignorant of English grammar. 🙂

    In other words: as usual he does not know what he is talking about.

  80. #80 kai
    October 27, 2012

    oh jan, what nice school english of a primitive german mother tongue, you are a mean want-be and would-like. go home to fuck old germany where you live as unemployed parasite and try to work on improvements of your terrible life problems. convey my most unfriendly greetings to all nazis and agw idiots in fuck old germany which i hate profoundly like the liberals in the us. i welcome the day of the new republican us president.

    romney will soon finish agw by cutting all ipcc funding from the us government and all insane agw hysterics will then disappear in depression

  81. #81 Wow
    October 27, 2012

    Well, he’s never seen ice melting for a start, jan.

  82. #82 kai
    October 28, 2012

    the maldives government currently invests heavily in the construction of 11 further international airports on these small islands in the indian ocean to foster tourism in the next decades. maldives government and population are not concerned at all about any theatening sea level rise which you agw climate idiots announce every day without reason.

  83. #83 Jan
    October 28, 2012

    As is always the case, kai is again mistaken in his claims:

    The Malidive government ARE concerned about Global Warming and sea level rise:


    Kai lives in a world of his own. His basic notions of reality are utterly wrong and he can only uphold them by selectively perceiving the outside world and only accepting information that is in unison with his preconceived and totally distorted beliefs.

  84. #84 Wow
    October 28, 2012

    “Kai lives in a world of his own.”

    No, kai lives in a world dictated to him by the old geezer in the dress who showed him what it was to be a boy…

    He’s told AGW is false, he believes what he is told.

    He’s told the Bible is true, he believes what he is told.

    He lives in a world constructed by someone else.

  85. #85 Jan
    October 28, 2012


    ok. Kai did not invent the fantasy world he lives in, he’s too stupid for that.

    But deniers that are as idiotic as him are few and far between.

  86. #86 kai
    October 29, 2012

    jan, i am counting your flaws of your clumsy english:

    the current number is: 312 mistakes (you would say in your peccable english: the current number are: 312 mistakes)

    one cannot really expect much from a poor pupil’s underdeveloped brain skills which is so typical of average mainstream agw hysterics with low education and lack of talent in all dimensions except stupidity.

  87. #87 Wow
    October 29, 2012

    You know who you remind me of, kail?

    Beaker from the muppets.

  88. #88 Wow
    October 29, 2012



    Shocking “new” information (new to idiots like kai anyway) show an astonishing decline of antarctic ice over the last few weeks.

  89. #89 Bernard J.
    November 1, 2012

    who of you cowards and blatherskites, wow, whirlpool, mandas etc. dares to risk your OWN money to bet that in the next few years there will be a new arctic sea ice minimum, you terrible hypocrites and decadents : RISK YOUR MONEY IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU TRY TO STICK TO YOUR HYSTERIC CLIMATE CO2 CATASTROPHE CONVICTION

    Oo, I missed this the first time around!

    Kai, I will happily take your money. My terms as offered to other cowardly denialati are over at Deltoid (either on the September or October Open Threads, can’t recall which) but if you find them too onerous I’ll go for 15 half-ounces of gold (to be lodged with an agreeable third party) that PIOMAS sea ice volume will drop below 2 thousand km3 by 2017. Don’t forget that the current record is 3.3 thousand km3, so I’m giving you a huge head start over just breaking the current minimum.

    Come talk to me at Deltoid to organise the details, and I’ll put up my gold as quickly as I can. A part of the agreement will be that three half-ounces will go to the third party holding the funds until PIOMAS sea ice volume drops below 2 thousand km3, or until October 31 2017 (exactly 5 years from now), whichever comes first.

    My offer’s good until the end of November 2012. We’ll settle the details on the November Open Thread at Deltoid.

    Here’s your chance to show the blogosphere just how brave you are Kai.

  90. #90 Bernard J.
    November 1, 2012

    Hmmm. The superscript tags don’t work.

    I’m referring to thousands of cubic kilometres, obviously.

  91. #91 Bernard J.
    November 2, 2012


    What were you saying about cowards and blatherskites?

    Or is it simply that my challenge to low-brow? I’m happy to increase from half-ounces to whole ounces if so.

  92. #92 Debunker
    November 4, 2012

    I’ve been away for a while, & frankly, I’m amazed this thread is still going. It has been interesting though, going back through the posts and watching Kai self destruct. First he failed to take up Coby on putting his money where his mouth is, and now he has apparently slunk away permanently after Bernard J put some serious money on the table.

    It would be instructive if we could confirm that he is indeed a pre-teen troll, because, if he is an adult, I think he needs some therapy.

  93. #93 mk
    November 10, 2012

    kai is a liar, an imbecile, an ignoramus, a cheapskate, and a coward.

  94. #94 kai
    December 14, 2012

    hi all, new phantastic news from arctic sea ice:

    The latest value : 11,103,281 km2 (December 13, 2012)

    more than 7 mio km2 in little more than 3 months: why did the climate idiots in doha not discuss this phantastic development?

  95. #95 Wow
    December 15, 2012

    Winter comes as a surprise to kai.

  96. #96 Jan
    December 15, 2012


    Kai does not see either that even now the current extension of the Arctic sea ice is the lowest it has been since observation from space and measurements started.

    Even more revealing as to the state of the Arctic is a look at the ice volume:


  97. #97 kai
    December 16, 2012

    wow and jan, just for your information: arctic sea ice swims in the ocean and it’s melting adds zero to sea level rise: hahahaha, hahahaha, hahahaha, hahahahaha, hahahaha, hahahahaha, hahahahaha, hahahahaha

    ps: please save us from your pseudo-wisdom that warmer water expands: every climate idiot knows this, but there is no more water from arctic sea ice melting: hahahaha, hahahaha, hahahaha. hahaha, hahahahaha, hahahaha

    what a frustration for primitive climate idiots, hahahaha, hahaha, ahahaha

  98. #98 Jan
    December 16, 2012


    did you notice how kai went completely off-topic?

    His sea-level rise is a genuine – and extremely primitive – strawman. Neither you nor I ever mentioned sea-level rise in combination with the melting of the Arctic ice cap.

    As soon as one of his nonsense-claims is debunked he reverts to the next nonsense-claim. Poor chap! He never knows what he is talking ’bout.

  99. #99 kai
    December 17, 2012

    jan, bla bla bla bla bla, …. bla bla bla bla
    nonsense claims bla bla bla

    all what you are able to excrement is bulltshit

    ps: you are always wrong: there is no sea level rise at all, precision of satellite altimetry (plus minus a few meters accuracy) does not allow this. stay calm and try to learn a bit about satellite altimetry accuracy, you idiot.

  100. #100 Bernard J.
    December 17, 2012

    Kai, you must be one of the most consistently-wrong people on the internet.

    No-one is ascribing sea level rise to the melting of sea ice – the primary phenomena involved in that are thermal expansion and the melting of land ice, with the latter becoming much more important in the future. However…

    melting sea ice does increase the volume of the oceans.

    On satellite altimetry, an accuracy of plus or minus a meter was the limit, oh, about 45 years ago. Recently the accuracy has dropped to around 2.5 centimeters (one inch) or less.

    There’s also the small matter of repetition of measurement and the central limit theorem, and the resultant improvement in accuracy, but this seems to escape you as much as it does Steve Dullard Goddard. It’s clear though that you have never done a course in basic statistics.

  101. #101 kai
    December 17, 2012

    bernard, thermal expansion is small, everybody knows it and irrelevant: no floodings from thermal expansion. land ice melting in the future: so you know the future? bravo, you and your fellow climate church members are the only ones who think you know the future

  102. #102 Bernard J.
    December 17, 2012

    land ice melting in the future: so you know the future?

    Kai, do you deliberately go out of your way to look as stupid as is possible?


    I’m sure that you don’t actually believe the guff you post.

  103. #103 Bernard J.
    December 17, 2012

    Oh, and for the record, I note that you completely ignored the fact that you were demonstrated wrong on matter of

    1) to what phenomena scientists apportion sea level rise
    2) sea ice melt (modestly) contributing sea level rise and
    3) the accuracy of sea level rise.

    You’re out.

  104. #104 kai
    December 18, 2012

    bernard, i don’t read climate bibles for my daily climate prayer like you (skepticalscience is for climate church fellows with extremely low intellectual capabilities). you are wrong on satellite altimetry accuracy because you don’t like the truth

  105. #105 kai
    December 18, 2012

    by the way, bernard, global mean temperatures don’t rise since 15 years (look at the leaked ar5 draft). what a disaster for you. i understand your anger

  106. #106 Jan
    December 18, 2012

    @Bernard J.

    ” … don’t rise since 15 years …”

    Isn’t his English apalling? But then, what else would you expect from such an idiot?

  107. #107 kai
    December 18, 2012

    jan, it was already clear that your primitive german school english is way too insufficient to talk here understandably: but with your last derailment you proved the low-.knowledge brat in all disciplines who you disclose every time you open your mouth: just painful to read your stupid comments

  108. #108 Wow
    December 18, 2012

    Jesus frigging christ, kai, you’re a stupid twat.

    Stop [snip] and get AWAY from the internet. Try meeing people.

    You’ll need to get clean trousers and wash your hands.

  109. #109 Bernard J.
    December 18, 2012

    I say:

    Kai, do you deliberately go out of your way to look as stupid as is possible?

    and Kai says:

    i don’t read climate bibles for my daily climate prayer like you (skepticalscience is for climate church fellows with extremely low intellectual capabilities). you are wrong on satellite altimetry accuracy because you don’t like the truth

    Quod erat demonstrandum.

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