September monthly arctic sea ice extent smashes previous record

NCSIDC has it's monthly analysis for September done and as expected, it ain't pretty.

Arctic sea ice extent averaged for September 2012 was the lowest in the satellite record, and was 16% lower than the previous low for the month, which occurred in 2007. Through 2012, the linear rate of decline for September Arctic ice extent over the satellite record is now 13.0% per decade, relative to the 1979 to 2000 average. The six lowest September ice extents over the satellite record have all occurred in the last six years. Compared to the 1979 to 2000 average ice conditions, the September 2012 ice cover represents a 49% reduction in the area of the Arctic Ocean covered by sea ice. It is 2.91 million square kilometers (1.12 million square miles), or 45%, below the 30-year average over 1981 to 2010.

And don't let the denial crowd distract you with antarctic sea ice, which also set a record.  These two records are <cough> poles apart!  Just compare the images below and note where the grey 2 standard deviation area is in relation to the record breaking observations.

These are not comparable events.  And don't buy the denialist line that the extreme arctic melt was all due to weather.  True that there was an unusual, strong and long-lived arctic cyclone in mid August, but melt rates before and after were still unusually high.  The main factor was the young age (thinness) of the ice which is a result of climate change.  More on the weather:

Weather conditions prevailing over the summer of 2012 were quite different from those in 2007. The summer of 2007 featured unusually high sea level pressure centered north of the Beaufort Sea and Greenland, and unusually low pressure along northern Eurasia, bringing in warm southerly winds along the shores of the East Siberian and Chukchi seas (3 to 5 degrees Celsius, or 5 to 9 degrees Fahrenheit above normal), favoring strong ice melt in these sectors and pushing the ice away from the coast, leaving open water. The pressure pattern also favored the transport of ice out of the Arctic Ocean and into the North Atlantic through Fram Strait.

In contrast, the summer of 2012 saw unusually low pressure along the Eurasian coastal seas and extending eastward into the Beaufort sea, most prominently over the East Siberian Sea, with unusually high pressure centered over Greenland and the northern North Atlantic. Air temperatures for summer 2012 were above average over most of the Arctic Ocean (1 to 3 degrees Celsius, or 2 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit), most prominently over the Beaufort Sea, where

So, 3-5 oC above normal in 2007, only 1 to 3 oC above normal this year. Speaking of the age of the ice, don't miss this graphic:

Older ice is vanishing from the arctic ocean

Check out the press release for more details about this years truly extraordinary melt season, and be sure the record breaking is not over yet.

But it will be soon.

 

 

 

More like this

August sea ice extent in the Arctic this year was 640,000 square kilometers below the previous record set in 2007.  It is also already a record monthly low for any month, though that record will not last as it is going to be broken this September when the lowest extent of the year is normally…
According to data just now available, the total surface area of the summertime Arctic Sea that is covered in ice has reached the lowest point ever recorded. Every (northern) summer the sea ice in the Arctic melts to some degree, reaching a minimum around the middle of September. Over the last…
The Arctic Sea freezes over. The Arctic Sea melts. This happens every year. The average date for the maximum extent of Arctic Sea ice, based on a period of 1981-2010, is March 12. The minimum extent is reached, on average, about September 15h. Every year for the last several years, the minimum…
Did you ever leave your freezer door slightly open on a humid day only to find chunks of new ice formed at the gap? When that happens, did you conclude "Oh, my freezer is colder than usual, I wonder how that happened?" No. You concluded that you had left the door slightly open, some cold got out…

like hockey stick manipulator michael mann, you do the same methodological fraud with arctic sea ice extent when you mix satellite derived data with none-satellite data: this is part of postnormal science doings of mixing data when useful in order to demonstrate non-existing facts

What's postnormal is the ease of kai's complete denial of physical reality with a perfectly straight face.

But then what do you expect from the paranoid conspiracy theory fringe?

You'll notice that kai isn't actually ignoring anything actively, they're on;y posting completely irrelevant bollocks.

A sort of "Look! Squirrels!" attempt.

Aww, don't be too hard on him. He probably read that criticism on some other blog, didn't give it too much thought, and just re-posted it.
He doesn't seem to know much about how science is actually done. We mix different types of data all the time. I can find you a hundred graphs which put theory predictions and experimental values on the *same* figure. (OMG!). Clearly labelled, of course, so you can see how the two compare. And in this case, his criticism is completely irrelevant, as the satellite and non-satellite trends are not significantly different.

On second thought: Yeah, be hard on him. People should get a hard time when speaking out of ignorance.

By Windchasers (not verified) on 05 Oct 2012 #permalink

Isn't it weird how deniers, when faced with catastrphic floods or heatwaves go on and on (and on and on...) about how you CANNOT *prove* that the flood/heatwave/whatever was done by global warming and how it could have been something else because floods/etc have happened before.

Yet when the sea ice collapses, despite sea ice extent dropping before without the intervention of a huge storm, they see no need to *prove* that the sea ice break up was *caused* by the storm. Even though similar storms have been seen before without causing the sea ice to break up like this.

Its as if they have a different standard for their own proclamations isn't it.

windblower "He doesn’t seem to know much about how science is actually done"

hahaha, when such whistleblowers and green dirt specialists like you talk about science i get constant fits of vomiting and compelling yelling about such a degree of imbecility which i have never thought possible. only complete science ignorants and scientific nullls can say such bullshit about mixing apples and grapes in scientific charts. your rotten view of true science should go to hell, to hell, you mean small science traitor, it should go to hell, shame in you for spoiling science in such amean way as you do, you non-scientist, but primitive layman.

i cannot recover from the bullshit the green leftist activists are standing for, incredible, incredible, incredible how low the intellectual level there really is, even lower than one can imagine

Figure 1: Fully 100% satellite-derived data
Ibid Figure 2A+B
Ibid Figure 3.

kai = FAIL!

Kai, if you want to talk about ignorance, why not look closer to home? Your literacy level would shame a 7-year-old. Did you receive no schooling at all?

And as far as bullshit goes - well, same deal really. This article presents some facts. You respond with utter nonsense.

So you've demonstrated to us that you are a powerfully ignorant liar. Own goal, or what?

By Vince Whirlwind (not verified) on 07 Oct 2012 #permalink

Vinny, kai *is* seven years old.

This is a friendly reminder from "Teh Intarwebtubes": Do not feed the trolls. "Kai", for instance, is a troll. Clearly. There will be nothing gained from interacting with "Kai". In a lot of ways, "Kai" is like a zombie, just mindlessly trying to eat you from the other side of a fence. The zombie can't get to you (it's not smart at all), and it's a waste of effort bopping it on the noggin when there is a whole horde of them. Really, what needs to happen is that we find a cure for the Monckton-Koch virus (a.k.a., the "fossil fuel flu").

I saw an episode of an excellent TV series on the weekend called 'The Newsroom', with Jeff Daniels.

The episode in question included a sub-plot where Neal Sampat (Dev Patal) wants to do a story on internet trolls. To do so, he has to join an on-line 'club' by proving his worth by trolling a site and distracting the converstion.

Remind everyone of anything?

Lesson - Moody is right. The best way to deal with trolls is to totally ignore them.

windchasers confessed: "We mix different types of data all the time"

aha, look at this science traitor!! shame on you, windchasers!!

whirlpool, mandas and wow behave like ill-mannered brats here! do better and improve your knowledge before you write your insane nonsense, please

"“Kai” is like a zombie, just mindlessly trying to eat you from the other side of a fence."

Worse.

They're abusing those who think free speech is the absolute pinnacle of necessity and will therefore not delete any post no matter how irrelevant or assinine.

They themselves have no problem in shouting down others and refusing voices (See WTFUWT for numerous examples).

kai should be kicked off.

I read an interesting post recently from a guy who was stalked by some troll who turned out to be the 17 year old son of a friend of his. So my question for Kai is; tell us a bit about yourself. Where are you from? How old are you? What is your scientific education that you feel that you are the only arbiter of the scientific method? We can excuse your lack of command of the English language if English is not your first language, but frankly, so far, you give the impression of a poorly educated teenager just trying to stir up the adults. Please prove us wrong.

debunker perceives himself on he right site of everything: he is wrong. as a climate dreamer he is betraying himself since global temperatures do not rise since 14 years and alarmistiically faked satellite altimetry data show yeary sea level rises of hardly 2mm.

you desperate warmist co2 fools don't reailise that you are slaves of your limited perception of being misused by your climate gurus (gore, hansen, jones, mann, trenberth, etc.), and you enjoy being slaves, you poor pigs

Debunker has his questions answered. Indirectly.

As Wow correctly observes, Kai is incapable of engaging in meaningful dialogue, hence proving that he is, more than likely, a somewhat poorly educated teenager with limited social skills who enjoys stirring up the adults. Thanks Kai, for clearing that up for us!

" Kai is incapable of engaging in meaningful dialogue"

Yep, basically little more than a useless food tube.

debunker, you are even not compliant with ipcc's primitive probability expressions: "that he is, more than likely"

could you give a numeric measure of likelihood instead of your poor mainstream laymen wording ?

Kai, your words to another poster:

"your rotten view of true science should go to hell, to hell, you mean small science traitor, it should go to hell"

These are not the words of an adult, this is a child having a tantrum. .

debunker, your total ignorance of decent scientic principles prevents you from understanding what i tried to teach you. as was to be expected any effort to explain to you what science really is is totally useless. instead you react with utter ignorance and arrogance. that's typical agw hysteric climate slaves, you poor non-performers

And that sad, pathetic child's tantrum continues unabated.

you idiots will be not be happy with your insane arrogance without any basis

Some interesting reading on the differences between the changes in the Arctic and Antarctic:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

There is also an article on what might happen next year, here:

http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2012/10/naive-predictions-of-2013-sea-ic…

Although it is too early to make valid predictions based on observations (evident from what is said in the article), the author (Larry Hamilton) has generally been quite good in his predictions in the past few years. There is more information on how accurate the various models etc are, at this post at Scepticalscience:

www.skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-climate-predictions-arctic-s…

Note that deniers like wattsupmybutt are always the worst predicters, and they always grossly over estimate what will occur. I guess there is nothing like using ideology rather than evidence to draw conclusions.

Seen Bastardi's prediction for ice this year?

Seems the lad was a bit wrong.

Shame nobody who listens to him considers when he says "I've got a model and it's been right so far" whether he's actually telling the truth there.

Yeah, well Bastardi has been wrong more often that just about anyone. It's a problem when you have no expertise, and base your predictions on ideology rather than evidence.

He is right at home at Faux News.

Where they have their eagle eyes on the climate scientists who say AGW is a problem and, "unfortunately" no time left to check up on any claims by Bastardi.

wow, but i will be right 100% that summer arctic sea ice extent will never reach the 2012 extent minimum in the next 8 years and i bet 10'000.- us dollars

I notice "kai" is still typing nonsense lacking even the most rudimentary level of literacy that you would expect of any 9-year-old.

"kai", if you demonstrably can't even grasp primary-school-level english, don't you think your grasp of logic, maths and science makes you look four-fold foolish?

By Vince Whirlwind (not verified) on 13 Oct 2012 #permalink

More to the point, the record low having been set 4 times in the last 11 years, your bet is clearly the work of an extraordinarily feeble mind.

By Vince Whirlwind (not verified) on 13 Oct 2012 #permalink

kai, how long will it take you to save 10,000 dollars from your pocket money?

Tell you what, pop back here next september and eat crow.

kai = the sputtering of unhinged conspiracy theory full of sound and fury but signifying nothing.

Sadly, it is what happens when some peoples' world view becomes divorced from reality and increasingly marginalized.

who of you cowards and blatherskites, wow, whirlpool, mandas etc. dares to risk your OWN money to bet that in the next few years there will be a new arctic sea ice minimum, you terrible hypocrites and decadents : RISK YOUR MONEY IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU TRY TO STICK TO YOUR HYSTERIC CLIMATE CO2 CATASTROPHE CONVICTION

kai, this is clearly such an easy win. The fact that no one jumps to take you up on your bet is that none of us believe for a second that you are sincere or that there is any probability statistically distinguishable from 0, that you would ever pay.

However, that said, I will gladly take you up on a $10,000US bet that a new record low in the arctic sea ice extent as reported by NSIDC will be set on or before October 2020. You may choose if you prefer that to be a daily reading or a monthly average.

Hi Coby

I am happy to hold the money. If both you and kia can send me a cheque for $10,000 I will ensure it goes to the winner.

Bank escrow is possible to hold the money for the bet.

kai will have to ask his parents, though, for the loan.

Kai, Have you actually looked at the graph at the beginning of this post? Even just eye-balling it, you can tell that the loss is actually accelerating. Why, for what reason, would it reverse itself? What do you believe is going to change in the next few years? Is 'natural variation' all of a sudden going to reverse it?

For that to happen, you would have to have some natural forcing that would push it in the opposite direction. No such forcing exists. The ice volume graphs are even worse. We have lost 80% of the ice volume in the Arctic in 30 years. This is unprecedented probably in the history of the planet. Sure, there have been times in the geological past when there have been no ice caps, but these changes happened very slowly, over many thousands, if not millions of years.

Something is seriously wrong if this can happen so quickly. To put it simply, it is not a natural change. The only way you could possibly deny the seriousness of this is if you think the satellite data have been faked. To believe this you would also have to believe that ships logs, and traveller reports and satellite photos, along with met station data have been faked also.

If you accept that the graphs are real, then I really can't see by what twisted logic you expect the situation to reverse itself..

Debunker, kai is just bellyaching. Doesn't have ten grand and won't pay up even if he did.

Just your average pre-teen troll.

Just your average pre-teen troll.

I still say kai is a 'bot. It doesn't pass the turing test.

By Mal Adapted (not verified) on 16 Oct 2012 #permalink

Neither would most teens...

It appears Kai has left the building...
Not surprising really. He didn't expect to get taken up on his ridiculous bet....

Maybe he's trying to find his real email address so that Coby can see the colour of his money!

Yup,

He suddenly realised he couldn't fund it out of his pocket money.....

incredible increase in arctic sea ice extent since one month, nearly 6mio km2 again: a record increase: this is climate, therefore no agw here

cowards debunker, wow, mandas: what about you in risking your money in the 10000 $ bet?

Yes, every winter when the sun stops appearing over the horizon, the arctic sea starts freezing, kai.

Apparently the miracle of nature of "Winter" has passed you by these past eight or nine years of your life.

Can we assume, Kai, that you have accepted Coby's offer? In that case you better indicate how you would like to arrange payment, or your response here is just another dud.

all sick agw brains here:

your data (temperatures, sea level) are all corrupt, manipulated until nausea and vomiting, and low intelligence commenters like wow belief in religious lies. all the mainstream co2 hysterics have no knowledge of satellite altimetry shortcomings, methodologicsl deficencies of global temperature calculation (e.g. no air temperature data from more than 99.99999% of the 510mio. km2 of the earth’s surface.

when agw liers will have been imprisoned for some time by justice they shall only be pardoned on strict exams of moral, ethical and intellectual improvements, especially in the field of logical thinking, i.e. the ability to conclude that agw is utter bullshit

Ah, Kai is already running away from his own challenge by just declaring the data "corrupt" and "manipulated".

Kai's a whimp.

marco, for once you as a low level agw hysteric commenter are right, as i feel in effect be in the scientific position to whip all you low intellect co2 mainstream people symbolically until you understand your climate frauds

We need the colour of your money, kai, not the red of your apoplectic rage.

Kai admits to being a coward, that's a start.

Next thing is that he admits he has no clue about science whatsoever; his "scientific position" is that his opinion is right, and everyone else, screw the facts, they don't exist unless they fit his ideological position. Am I right again, Kai?

Kai is best friends with Biel Roag.
That said, it might also be time to invoke Poe's Law, just to cover all bases.

Kai is one of the worst imposters I have ever come across (and of course, an idiot on top of being a troll).

He actually claims to be fluent in a dozen or so languages, to be a highly gifted musician, have a vast knowledge of all kinds of subjects and above all, to be the CEO and owner of several companies with a fortune that is close to a billion $.

He also posts in another language and the postings he leaves at some other blogs are just as bad and insulting as they are here. Needless to mention that the contents of these postings are also void of any sensible content.

jan, how do you define "sensible content", is this something you can eat?

++++ urgent climate ticker message ++++++++ urgent +++++ urgent

record doubling of arctic sea ice extent within little more than 1 month

 The latest value : 6,825,781 km2 (October 22, 2012)  

agw cacaphonics can now hail the end of catastropic flooding danger. bravo!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

agw has ended, agw has ended, and the climate insanes wow, mandas, debunker, jan and others can return to a decent and honest life and hope that people forget their idiocies

Hmm. Yes. Winter.

I guess that would be a newsflash for you, kid.

Expect the same recovery next winter.

wow, i know you hate facts which don't reflect your warming hallucinations. therefore your respectful comment: "winter"

why do you hate winter?

jan "an idiot on top of a troll": go home to fuck old germany with your pitoyable hypocrite german angst and try to improve your extremely ridiculous knowledge about climate and weather. nobody likes you here, you poor pig

why do you find winter suprising, kai?

again bad luck for agw climate alarmists:

current climate data from the south pole:

Wind from the E (080 degrees) at 10 MPH (9 KT)
Visibility 3 mile(s)
Sky conditions mostly clear
Weather Ice crystals
Mist
Temperature -56 F (-49 C)
Windchill -85 F (-65 C)
Pressure (altimeter) 28.47 in. Hg (964 hPa)

the temperatures on the antarctic ice shields are soooooooo low that there will be no melting of ice in hundred thousands of years.

climate alarmists, you poor pigs, you have lost a further battle of argumentation against honest decent climate truth advicats like me.

wow, winter is very suprising for you, as you climate grogs deny winter climate phenomena: snowfall, glacier growth, etc.

when it's getting colder then you undergo psychic troubles. and i enjoy your anger about cooling worlds, hahahahahaha, you poor pig

why is winter coming around this time of year ALWAYS suprising you, kid?

Kai is missing the point. Yes, it's cold at the south pole. For now. And yes, IF temperatures stayed that low, then the ice there wouldn't melt. But it was cold at the north pole a century ago. No one then, other than Svante Arrhenius, imagined that anything like we are now seeing could happen.

But it did.

The absence of solid pack ice over much of the Arctic this September is a fact. It's not a methodological quirk. It's not something that can be argued away. We have the photos from space. Case closed.

By agwisreal (not verified) on 25 Oct 2012 #permalink

@agwisreal,

please do not take anything kai says seriously. He is an absolute idiot and only wants to provoke.

That poor chap probably does not have a job nor any friends, so he compensates his misery by going around blogs, tying to insult people and prentending to be a rich know-all, while in reality he does not know anything about climate issues.

He is best dealt with by totally ignoring him.

I think he's sockpuppeting now as incomplete idiocy or whatever handle he's pretending. He's also using different and fake email addresses.

jan, as always, your everything is bullshit, and english a shame:

"please do not take anything kai says seriously"

correction of the poorly educated terribly bad pupil:

"please do not take anything kai says serious"

but even this is far above the horizon and perception of the terrible german underperformer jan, who tries to deceive the public with his hallucinations.

jan, go home to your fuck old gernany, nobody likes you here

+++++++++ urgent message +++++++++++ urgent message +++++

arctice sea ice extent dramatically increasing, continues

 The latest value : 7,112,031 km2 (October 25, 2012)  

the co2 climate hysterics will bite deep in their asses because of anger, since they don't like low temperatures and lot's of ice, these poor pigs

Gosh, you don't mean that winter lasts longer than three days now, do you?

wow, masterpiece in logics: don't you, do you. only a split brain can excrement such a bullshit. bravo wow, you made it, even among agw hysterics you play in a minor intellectual league

Compared to you? Definitely.

It's still winter.

Yet somehow this, to you, is a newsflash.

wow, compared to me you are only an ugly dwarf with unsurmountable inferiority complexes. i would never let employ in one of my enterprises such an underperformer as you, mandas or debunker. i am superior to you in any dimension you might imagine

++++ NEWSFLASH FOR IDIOTS
++++ Antarctic sea ice collapses over last two weeks!

wow, you are really a true plain idiot: didn't you fool know that it's damn cold on antarctica and no ice melts there. incredible such an ignorance!! i will inform al gore and the us justice department about your flaws

what have you got against summer?

@wow,

kai is not only a bragging idiot, he is also completely ignorant of English grammar. :-)

In other words: as usual he does not know what he is talking about.

oh jan, what nice school english of a primitive german mother tongue, you are a mean want-be and would-like. go home to fuck old germany where you live as unemployed parasite and try to work on improvements of your terrible life problems. convey my most unfriendly greetings to all nazis and agw idiots in fuck old germany which i hate profoundly like the liberals in the us. i welcome the day of the new republican us president.

romney will soon finish agw by cutting all ipcc funding from the us government and all insane agw hysterics will then disappear in depression

Well, he's never seen ice melting for a start, jan.

the maldives government currently invests heavily in the construction of 11 further international airports on these small islands in the indian ocean to foster tourism in the next decades. maldives government and population are not concerned at all about any theatening sea level rise which you agw climate idiots announce every day without reason.

As is always the case, kai is again mistaken in his claims:

The Malidive government ARE concerned about Global Warming and sea level rise:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/06/mohamed-nasheed-maldives-clima…

Kai lives in a world of his own. His basic notions of reality are utterly wrong and he can only uphold them by selectively perceiving the outside world and only accepting information that is in unison with his preconceived and totally distorted beliefs.

"Kai lives in a world of his own."

No, kai lives in a world dictated to him by the old geezer in the dress who showed him what it was to be a boy...

He's told AGW is false, he believes what he is told.

He's told the Bible is true, he believes what he is told.

He lives in a world constructed by someone else.

@Wow,

ok. Kai did not invent the fantasy world he lives in, he's too stupid for that.

But deniers that are as idiotic as him are few and far between.

jan, i am counting your flaws of your clumsy english:

the current number is: 312 mistakes (you would say in your peccable english: the current number are: 312 mistakes)

one cannot really expect much from a poor pupil's underdeveloped brain skills which is so typical of average mainstream agw hysterics with low education and lack of talent in all dimensions except stupidity.

You know who you remind me of, kail?

Beaker from the muppets.

who of you cowards and blatherskites, wow, whirlpool, mandas etc. dares to risk your OWN money to bet that in the next few years there will be a new arctic sea ice minimum, you terrible hypocrites and decadents : RISK YOUR MONEY IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU TRY TO STICK TO YOUR HYSTERIC CLIMATE CO2 CATASTROPHE CONVICTION

Oo, I missed this the first time around!

Kai, I will happily take your money. My terms as offered to other cowardly denialati are over at Deltoid (either on the September or October Open Threads, can't recall which) but if you find them too onerous I'll go for 15 half-ounces of gold (to be lodged with an agreeable third party) that PIOMAS sea ice volume will drop below 2 thousand km3 by 2017. Don't forget that the current record is 3.3 thousand km3, so I'm giving you a huge head start over just breaking the current minimum.

Come talk to me at Deltoid to organise the details, and I'll put up my gold as quickly as I can. A part of the agreement will be that three half-ounces will go to the third party holding the funds until PIOMAS sea ice volume drops below 2 thousand km3, or until October 31 2017 (exactly 5 years from now), whichever comes first.

My offer's good until the end of November 2012. We'll settle the details on the November Open Thread at Deltoid.

Here's your chance to show the blogosphere just how brave you are Kai.

By Bernard J. (not verified) on 01 Nov 2012 #permalink

Hmmm. The superscript tags don't work.

I'm referring to thousands of cubic kilometres, obviously.

By Bernard J. (not verified) on 01 Nov 2012 #permalink

Kai?

What were you saying about cowards and blatherskites?

Or is it simply that my challenge to low-brow? I'm happy to increase from half-ounces to whole ounces if so.

By Bernard J. (not verified) on 02 Nov 2012 #permalink

I've been away for a while, & frankly, I'm amazed this thread is still going. It has been interesting though, going back through the posts and watching Kai self destruct. First he failed to take up Coby on putting his money where his mouth is, and now he has apparently slunk away permanently after Bernard J put some serious money on the table.

It would be instructive if we could confirm that he is indeed a pre-teen troll, because, if he is an adult, I think he needs some therapy.

kai is a liar, an imbecile, an ignoramus, a cheapskate, and a coward.

hi all, new phantastic news from arctic sea ice:

The latest value : 11,103,281 km2 (December 13, 2012)

more than 7 mio km2 in little more than 3 months: why did the climate idiots in doha not discuss this phantastic development?

Winter comes as a surprise to kai.

wow and jan, just for your information: arctic sea ice swims in the ocean and it's melting adds zero to sea level rise: hahahaha, hahahaha, hahahaha, hahahahaha, hahahaha, hahahahaha, hahahahaha, hahahahaha

ps: please save us from your pseudo-wisdom that warmer water expands: every climate idiot knows this, but there is no more water from arctic sea ice melting: hahahaha, hahahaha, hahahaha. hahaha, hahahahaha, hahahaha

what a frustration for primitive climate idiots, hahahaha, hahaha, ahahaha

@Wow,

did you notice how kai went completely off-topic?

His sea-level rise is a genuine - and extremely primitive - strawman. Neither you nor I ever mentioned sea-level rise in combination with the melting of the Arctic ice cap.

As soon as one of his nonsense-claims is debunked he reverts to the next nonsense-claim. Poor chap! He never knows what he is talking 'bout.

jan, bla bla bla bla bla, .... bla bla bla bla
nonsense claims bla bla bla

all what you are able to excrement is bulltshit

ps: you are always wrong: there is no sea level rise at all, precision of satellite altimetry (plus minus a few meters accuracy) does not allow this. stay calm and try to learn a bit about satellite altimetry accuracy, you idiot.

Kai, you must be one of the most consistently-wrong people on the internet.

No-one is ascribing sea level rise to the melting of sea ice - the primary phenomena involved in that are thermal expansion and the melting of land ice, with the latter becoming much more important in the future. However...

...melting sea ice does increase the volume of the oceans.

On satellite altimetry, an accuracy of plus or minus a meter was the limit, oh, about 45 years ago. Recently the accuracy has dropped to around 2.5 centimeters (one inch) or less.

There's also the small matter of repetition of measurement and the central limit theorem, and the resultant improvement in accuracy, but this seems to escape you as much as it does Steve Dullard Goddard. It's clear though that you have never done a course in basic statistics.

By Bernard J. (not verified) on 17 Dec 2012 #permalink

bernard, thermal expansion is small, everybody knows it and irrelevant: no floodings from thermal expansion. land ice melting in the future: so you know the future? bravo, you and your fellow climate church members are the only ones who think you know the future

Oh, and for the record, I note that you completely ignored the fact that you were demonstrated wrong on matter of

1) to what phenomena scientists apportion sea level rise
2) sea ice melt (modestly) contributing sea level rise and
3) the accuracy of sea level rise.

You're out.

By Bernard J. (not verified) on 17 Dec 2012 #permalink

bernard, i don't read climate bibles for my daily climate prayer like you (skepticalscience is for climate church fellows with extremely low intellectual capabilities). you are wrong on satellite altimetry accuracy because you don't like the truth

by the way, bernard, global mean temperatures don't rise since 15 years (look at the leaked ar5 draft). what a disaster for you. i understand your anger

@Bernard J.

" ... don’t rise since 15 years ..."

Isn't his English apalling? But then, what else would you expect from such an idiot?

jan, it was already clear that your primitive german school english is way too insufficient to talk here understandably: but with your last derailment you proved the low-.knowledge brat in all disciplines who you disclose every time you open your mouth: just painful to read your stupid comments

Jesus frigging christ, kai, you're a stupid twat.

Stop [snip] and get AWAY from the internet. Try meeing people.

You'll need to get clean trousers and wash your hands.

I say:

Kai, do you deliberately go out of your way to look as stupid as is possible?

and Kai says:

i don’t read climate bibles for my daily climate prayer like you (skepticalscience is for climate church fellows with extremely low intellectual capabilities). you are wrong on satellite altimetry accuracy because you don’t like the truth

Quod erat demonstrandum.

By Bernard J. (not verified) on 18 Dec 2012 #permalink