Respectful Insolence

If there’s one thing about the anti-vaccine movement in general and one of its chief mouthpieces for propaganda, the Age of Autism blog, in particular, it’s rank hypocrisy. One of the key tenets of anti-vaccine ideology is an unrelenting distrust of big pharma. While that in and of itself would not be entirely unreasonable, given the documented chicanery of that large pharmaceutical companies have indulged in from time to time, but on AoA the crew takes such mistrust beyond reasonable skepticism and straight into tinfoil hat territory. Indeed, “pharma shill!” is one of their favorite cries any time someone has the temerity to defend vaccines or to point out that science simply doesn’t support the anti-vaccine movement’s pet contention that vaccines somehow cause autism, a belief that is utterly immune to reason and science. In any case, any connection with the filthy lucre of normal commerce is viewed as an instant reason to launch ad hominem attacks on the credibility of the person defending vaccines.

Unless the person partaking of a bit of the ol’ filthy lucre is an antivaccinationist. Then it’s all good.

In any case, yesterday I happened to check out AoA. I don’t know why, but every so often morbid curiosity gets the better of me. And what did I see? A Tweet from the official Age of Autism Twitter feed:

From Kim: Please welcome our newest advertiser, Public Affairs Media, featuring Dr. Andrew Moulden. http://www.publicaffairsmediainc.org

Dr. Andrew Moulden? Remember him? You don’t? He’s the guy who thinks, against all evidence and science, that autism is caused by microvascular strokes caused by vaccines, arguably a competitor with Mark and David Geier’s Lupron protocol for the most ridiculously horrific bit of autism and antivaccine pseudoscience ever, as I described in detail a while back. Based on this idea, he offers a bit of pseudoscientific nonsense called Brain Guard, which involves nothing more than submitting a videotape of a child to him for “analysis.”

Apparently AoA has graduated from accepting advertising from supplement manufacturers to accepting pure pseudoscience, as long as it brings in the green. What’s next, homeopathy? Distant healers? Colon cleanses? Shamanism?

Indeed, if you want to get an idea of just how bad Moulden is, consider this. John Best, of all people, after first being impressed with Moulden ultimately recognized that he was pushing nonsense. That’s bad. Real bad. Astoundingly bad. Like Jenny McCarthy recognizing someone as a quack, only worse.

But not bad enough not to be an advertiser for AoA. To J.B. Handley and AoA, it’s money that matters, as Randy Newman famously sang some 20 years ago:

Comments

  1. #1 Joseph
    May 6, 2009

    They have infomercials of pharmaceuticals at AoA. For an example, google “ageofautism OSR.” OSR is a chelator that is used for environmental applications, untested in humans.

    So long as pharmaceuticals are not sold by a big-name company, AoA editors apparently think it’s perfectly fine to use blog posts to promote them.

    It’s pretty amazing, because few respectable bloggers use blog posts in this way. Advertising in blog posts is considered a no-no. Just look at the debate around services like PayPerPost.

  2. #2 sarah
    May 6, 2009

    The Huffington Post has taken to publishing psuedo0science crap by the likes of Jim Carrey, Kim Stagliano, etc.. Ugh.

    2 articles which might be of interest to you:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/04/jenny-mccarthy-signs-deal_n_195529.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-carrey/the-judgment-on-vaccines_b_189777.html

  3. #4 Chris
    May 6, 2009

    Sarah, you might also be interested in this blog posting from a year ago:
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/04/the_huffington_post_and_vaccines.php

  4. #5 Gil
    May 7, 2009

    A simple legal change that stop these people would be to declare that “anyone dispensing anything (advice, herbs, treatments, etc.) of a medical nature are liable for what they say and can’t hide behind disclaimers.”

  5. #6 Vindaloo
    May 7, 2009

    Gil – interesting thought and there is a whole lot of implications there. One thing is for certain: the bathtub chemists in the highly profitable supps (even fake supps like RNA drops) are flying under the radar.

    Orac – this just goes to prove your point about Crank Magnetism. These people are swinging at a pinata in the dark. Too bad it’s the kids that get hurt and not these psychos.

  6. #7 Storkdok
    May 7, 2009

    “Indeed, if you want to get an idea of just how bad Moulden is, consider this. John Best, of all people, after first being impressed with Moulden ultimately recognized that he was pushing nonsense. That’s bad. Real bad. Astoundingly bad. Like Jenny McCarthy recognizing someone as a quack, only worse.”

    HAHAHAHA, best lines written in a while! Memorable! Thank you!

  7. #8 notmercury
    May 7, 2009

    I forgot about that song. Sounds like Mark Knopfler playing guitar. Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits – Money for nothing and your chicks for free.

  8. #9 Andrew Dodds
    May 7, 2009

    Gil –

    In addition, the question of medical claims being made should NOT be decided by legal experts. The advert should be shown to an audience of laypeople picked at random, and if a majority of them think that a medical claim is being made, then the product will be judged to be making such a claim. So a statement like ‘there is an association between people taking suppliment X and people living longer’, which the majority of people would take as being a claim that suppliment X makes you live longer, would be treated as such.

  9. #10 Dianne
    May 7, 2009

    Speaking of anti-vaxers and consequences, have you seen this article in the NEJM yet? The conclusions are, shall we say, not a surprise, but yet more emperic conformation of the dangers of making it easy for anti-vaxers to have their way.

  10. #11 wfjag
    May 7, 2009

    Query: Will AoA advertise on Jenny McCarthy’s new talk show that Oprah is launching?

    “Jenny McCarthy inks Harpo deal
    To develop projects including a syndicated talk show
    By Nellie Andreeva
    May 3, 2009, 11:00 PM ET

    Jenny McCarthy is poised to become the next star in Oprah Winfrey’s media empire.”

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i06056b3e4345348447df69f8ec765ae3

    Gosh, Orac, you’ll be able to see and hear Jenny every day. You’ll never run out of material for blogs.

  11. #12 Militant Agnostic
    May 7, 2009

    Andrew Moulden (I refuse to call him a doctor) is now the leader of the Canadian Action Whackaloon Party.

    They are 911 troofers as well as huge quackery supporters – crank magnetism in action. When you previously posted on this kook they had an item on their election campaign website describing how a coup had taken place in the US.

    If you want to see the website of these paranoid loons:
    http://www.canadianactionparty.ca

    I noticed that no one comments on their articles – this is probably a good sign that they are a very fringe party.

    It astounds me that someone who is clearly either a complete crook and/or underpants on the head insane is allowed to practice medicine in Ontario.

  12. #13 michael Simpson
    May 7, 2009

    Simply to keep me sane, are we the only ones that see the insanity of these individuals. Because if we’re the only ones who think they’re demonstrably nuts, then maybe we’re in some surreal asylum somewhere. This is making me crazy!!!!!

  13. #14 Roscoe
    May 7, 2009

    Here’s information about “dr” Moulden’s medical degree.
    http://howtocureautism.blogspot.com/2009/04/dr-moulden-think-again.html

  14. #15 Daniel J. Andrews
    May 7, 2009

    Roscoe…is that link to THE John Best? If so, I hardly give him any credence on any subject based on his own posts and comments in this blog. He makes such asinine assertions using ‘facts’ that are easily shown to be dead wrong with a 1 minute google search. Trustworthy he is not.

    Not that I’m defending Dr(?) Moulden, or Drew as I knew him. We were actually friends during high school before he dropped out of school. He returned to school after a short absence and did extremely well as he is unquestionably bright. I also think he is absolutely lacking in moral scruples, and he knows he is talking nonsense. He is in this just for the money and the attention.

  15. #16 Daniel J. Andrews
    May 7, 2009

    Apparently Drew is a doc and did graduate from McMaster U in 2000 although he doesn’t have a practice. From the website of the college of physicians and surgeons:

    http://www.cpso.on.ca/docsearch/details.aspx?view=1&id=%2075384

  16. #17 Roscoe
    May 8, 2009

    Dan,
    It’s interesting that you found that information. When I searched the same site a couple of weeks ago, they had no record of anyone named Moulden.

  17. #18 Militant Agnostic
    May 8, 2009

    Dan,
    Did Moulden have wacky political ideas when you knew him? I am thinking his leadership of the Canadian Action Party is just to get him more publicity and allow him to cry political persecution in the unlikely event that the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons takes action against him.

    The Canadian Action Party was founded by former 1960s Liberal Defence Minister Paul Helyer long after he had lost his grip on reality.

  18. #19 Daniel J. Andrews
    May 8, 2009

    @ Militant Agnostic. No, Drew didn’t have political ideas that I recall. He was basically about having a fun time and if there were no fun times he’d make his own (e.g. throwing crab apples at cars and buses, running around the roof-tops of Canadore College and getting chased by security guards or police or irate drivers who spotted him throwing stuff–he was very athletic and would sprint into the bush and disappear. I was surprised to see he’d gained so much weight).

    My retrospective take on it is that most things came easily to Drew, and if they didn’t, he lost interest in it. He was looking for the short-cuts, the quick way to make money, and if it required too much work or effort he’d try something else.

    His parents (the ones who adopted him and his sister) were good folks. Drew wasn’t bad per se, just mischievous, very impulsive, and you couldn’t trust him to tell the truth. I haven’t seen him in about 15 years but if I had to guess I’d say he doesn’t believe his own political ideas. It is just a means to an end (shortcut to getting attention, money), and as you mentioned could very well be a ploy to cry political persecution if action is taken against him–>when younger he wasn’t so great at thinking through his actions and the consequences associated with them, so such foresight in planning the political persecution angle might not have been in his mind at the time but he’d certainly use it if necessary.

    @Roscoe; that is interesting it didn’t show up a couple of weeks ago. I should have thought to have checked it years ago when I first heard he’d become a doctor because my first thought was, “No way! He couldn’t stick it out that long”.

    Apparently he was given/won quite a few grants as one day he revisited the old stomping grounds in a fancy sports car and told my former neighbours they were just giving him money because he was so bright. Second-hand reports indicate he too seemed a bit stunned by such a turn of events. If he was pulling in that kind of money while in school it would have motivated him to stick with his schooling long enough to graduate.

  19. #20 Jonathan in Toronto
    May 8, 2009

    I wonder how he came to be registered as a resident in psychiatry, moving slowly from postgraduate year 1 to 3 levels over almost eight years altogether. http://www.cpso.on.ca/docsearch/details.aspx?view=3&id=%2075384

  20. #21 Militant Agnostic
    May 9, 2009

    Is there some way to get this quack/con man struck off? Would the person making the complaint have to be an Ontario resident?

  21. #22 Graham
    May 9, 2009

    These people are simply appalling, their nonsense is starting to kill people in Australia.

    We’ve just had a surge of Whooping Cough cases in NSW, last year there were around 700 cases between Jan – Mar, this year they’ve had almost 5,500 cases.

    It does not take much to figure out why.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5554929/whooping-cough-cases-surge-nsw/

  22. #23 Luna_the_cat
    July 7, 2009

    Dog help me, I have a friend request from Dr. Moulden on Facebook. He is already a friend of some of my family members, apparently. …Any suggestions as to what to do with this? I mean, on the one hand I want no association with him. On the other hand, oooh, the chance to apply certain needles maybe shouldn’t be wasted. What to do?

  23. #24 thereelstory
    July 24, 2009

    big pharma scum, you can do better than this

  24. #25 Chris
    July 24, 2009

    Wow! It is the Pharma Shill Gambit. How unoriginal, and evidence free.

  25. #26 Skemono
    July 24, 2009

    Awww, the pharma shill gambit. Never seen that before.

    I’d say “you can do better than this” in return, but I honestly don’t think you can.

  26. #27 defensivemuch?
    August 20, 2009

    I see a lot of name calling on here but not much else. The massive increase in autistic diagnosis can only be attributed to recent environmental changes.

    1. being the exorbitant increase in vaccination requirements during the 90′s. I believe we went from around 14 vaccinations per child by the age of 16 to 72 vaccinations per child by the age of 16 (please enlighten me as to the major medical dilemma that occurred in the 90′s to require this.)

    2. The increase level of microwave energy flowing through our immediate atmosphere.

    3. The recent changes in water flouridation using fluorosilicic acid and sodium fluorosilicate.

    The only “cause” the “medical” community can offer up is genetic predisposition. That argument is laughable on it’s face. As people who have a genetic predisposition are not the only people propagating.

    Those of you on here claiming testing could prove mini stroke are a bit humorous as well. Since it has taken nearly 6 months of “testing” to diagnose that my mom needs her gall bladder removed. Funny thing is my pops and I told her that is what her problem probably was long before any test were done.

    I personally do not know if Moulden is a con or is right. I do know that throwing insults at someone because of their political affiliation makes the insulter the one I would question.

    As for the Canadian Action Party and some posters cutsie little insult of the word “troofers” I would love to see how you would explain that 2 airplanes knocked down 3 skyscrapers. And even better how the BBC managed to announce the fall of the 3rd skyscraper some 30 minutes before it happened. as can be seen here.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/bbc_wtc7_videos.html?q=bbc_wtc7_videos.html

    So stick that in your self righteous pipe and smoke it.

    Viva Royal Raymond Rife

  27. #28 ababa
    August 20, 2009

    Thank you for ending your post with the little conspiracy diatribe. It helps others correctly frame your points on vaccination. If you think trotting out various conspiracy theories supports what you have to say … well, keep it up!

  28. #29 Scott
    August 20, 2009

    I see a lot of name calling on here but not much else. The massive increase in autistic diagnosis can only be attributed to recent environmental changes.

    Care to provide your evidence for such an absolute claim, in light of the fact there’s solid evidence that increased awareness, diagnostic substitution, etc. can fully account for the increased rate of diagnosis without requiring an increase in the underlying rate of autism?

    1. being the exorbitant increase in vaccination requirements during the 90′s. I believe we went from around 14 vaccinations per child by the age of 16 to 72 vaccinations per child by the age of 16 (please enlighten me as to the major medical dilemma that occurred in the 90′s to require this.)

    Again, evidence please, for how this could possibly be related given that the levels of antigens, thimerosal etc. actually DECREASED despite the increase in the raw number.

    And a reliable source for the 72 number.

    As well as justification for the apparent claim that reducing death and disability from disease is not worthwhile unless it constitutes a “major medical dilemma.”

    2. The increase level of microwave energy flowing through our immediate atmosphere.

    Cite.

    3. The recent changes in water flouridation using fluorosilicic acid and sodium fluorosilicate.

    Evidence of relevance, please.

    The only “cause” the “medical” community can offer up is genetic predisposition. That argument is laughable on it’s face. As people who have a genetic predisposition are not the only people propagating.

    Please similarly provide justification for asserting that it’s “laughable on its face” given the twin studies, etc. showing autism to be, in fact, almost exclusively genetic.

    Those of you on here claiming testing could prove mini stroke are a bit humorous as well. Since it has taken nearly 6 months of “testing” to diagnose that my mom needs her gall bladder removed. Funny thing is my pops and I told her that is what her problem probably was long before any test were done.

    Please explain how testing for one condition has any relation whatsoever to testing for an entirely unrelated question.

    As for the Canadian Action Party and some posters cutsie little insult of the word “troofers” I would love to see how you would explain that 2 airplanes knocked down 3 skyscrapers. And even better how the BBC managed to announce the fall of the 3rd skyscraper some 30 minutes before it happened. as can be seen here.

    Ever read any of the dozens of detailed explanations by people who actually know what they’re talking about?

  29. #30 defensivemuch?
    August 20, 2009

    “If you think trotting out various conspiracy theories supports what you have to say”

    9/11 conspiracy theory? So you think 1 person did 9/11?
    If not, then it was a conspiracy.

    please keep your ignorant posts to yourself in the future

  30. #31 ababa
    August 20, 2009

    please keep your ignorant posts to yourself in the future

    But why? Do they make you cry? Do they hit a little too close to home? Do you actually realize people think of you as a paranoid looney they cross the street to avoid and you don’t want to be reminded of it?

    My post was a suggestion for you to follow that advice. Most people have the good sense to filter paranoid stuff their mind comes up with as imagination. Unfortunately, not you. You will save yourself much heartache if you express your viewpoint without in the exact same post essentially saying “I am a stark raving mad crazy person that should be ignored”.

    Did you ever wonder why those “The End of the World” sign guys on the street get made fun of so much? Now you know. The guy with the sign is you. And knowing is half the battle. The other half is seeking out a good therapist.

  31. #32 defensivemuch?
    August 20, 2009

    for Scott.

    “Care to provide your evidence for such an absolute claim, in light of the fact there’s solid evidence that increased awareness, diagnostic substitution, etc. can fully account for the increased rate of diagnosis without requiring an increase in the underlying rate of autism?”

    That is an outrageous claim. Nothing fully accounts for the increase. Good luck with that theory.

    “2. The increase level of microwave energy flowing through our immediate atmosphere.

    Cite.”

    Common sense, more cell phones, wireless networks, satellite TV, radio and other transmitters. All of which are microwave transmitters

    ” 3. The recent changes in water flouridation using fluorosilicic acid and sodium fluorosilicate.

    Evidence of relevance, please.”

    Toxins you are ingesting, very relevant.

    “Please similarly provide justification for asserting that it’s “laughable on its face” given the twin studies, etc. showing autism to be, in fact, almost exclusively genetic.”

    Autism’s 1700% increase across the board. except in populations that do not vaccinate like the quaker society. The Genetically predispositioned are not having children at a rate 1700% more than the rest of us.

    “Please explain how testing for one condition has any relation whatsoever to testing for an entirely unrelated question.”

    When your tools for testing do not have the capability to test what you are looking for because of their limitations.
    And the example was cited to show that testing, what ever it is for, is unreliable at best. And as any respectable doctor would tell is more of a guessing game. Some are just better at guessing.

    “Ever read any of the dozens of detailed explanations by people who actually know what they’re talking about?”

    Unlike the closed minded I have not made up my mind about anything. I listen to all arguments be it from someone with new theories or some “know it all” who claims “they know what they’re talking about.”

  32. #33 defensivemuch?
    August 20, 2009

    “Most people have the good sense to filter paranoid stuff their mind comes up with as imagination.”

    Imagination my friend is the thought that 2 airplanes can knock down 3 skyscrapers. It is also the idea that the BBC can see the future. Your filter obviously is not working.

    I know the truth hurts and maybe that is why you try to belittle people by insinuating that you could make them cry with your nonsense. Whatever keeps you going buddy.
    Everything I posted on that subject is supported by indisputable facts.

    1st fact being that 3 skyscrapers collapsed on 9/11 when only 2 skyscrapers were hit by planes.

    2nd fact that the BBC announced the collapse of the 3rd building with the 3rd building in site behind the reporter still standing.

  33. #34 Chris
    August 20, 2009

    Wow, lots of words and absolutely no substance. Maybe we need a Rife microscope to find some. Oh, wait… it does not exist.

  34. #35 defensivemuch?
    August 20, 2009

    “Wow, lots of words and absolutely no substance. Maybe we need a Rife microscope to find some. Oh, wait… it does not exist”

    That’s why Science magazine published reviews of viruses seen with Rife’s microscope in 1932.

    Chris, how do you muster the brain power to breath?

  35. #36 Chris
    August 20, 2009

    1932!

    ROFL. It is just like arguing with a dining room table.

  36. #37 ababa
    August 20, 2009

    defensivemuch? said: Imagination my friend is the thought that 2 airplanes…

    You aren’t my friend. You are a paranoid loser that disgraces the memory of the people and their families that were injured and killed by those terrorist attacks. People like you do not deserve the comforts provided by this country and it’s allies and need to experience first hand what would happen to them if they attempted to exercise this level of freedom of speech in other countries.

    Go away you worthless sack of shit.

  37. #38 defensivemuch?
    August 21, 2009

    ababa

    You’re an idiot. Keep your head up your ass you bafoon. And go suck on your George Bush inflatable doll.

  38. #39 ababa
    August 21, 2009

    Sorry, I do not support Bush. Nice try lumping people you disagree with into one pigeonhole. Even democrats think people like you are a douchebag. I’ll wait while your head explodes at that thought.

  39. #40 Chris
    August 21, 2009

    Ah, ababa, you are going to hurt the widdle feelings of “defensivemuch?”. This must the first time s/he/it has ventured out of the secure confines of the forums with moderation that do not allow questioning their status quo, nor dissent (like the CureZone, LooseChange and Age of Autism). S/he/it has never actually encountered those not in the confines of the conspiracy echo chamber. But its brain is so calcified it is as inert as a dining room table, that there is no way to reason with it. Also, I predict s/he/it will come back with a content free insult of our intelligence, thinking that somehow we would really care (but actually cause us to laugh even more at it).

  40. #41 defensivemuch
    September 14, 2009

    You poor saps wont hurt my widdle feelings. Your the stooges who think that 3 high rise buildings could be knocked down by 2 airplanes. And you believe that horseshit because what really happened is to painful for your widdle feelings.
    But like my original post said nothing but name calling when you bafoons are faced with facts.

  41. #42 dedicated lurker
    September 14, 2009

    defensivemuch – I am a Quaker and as far as I know there is no universal vaccination policy. I think you mean the Amish, except they vaccinate as well. So what point are you trying to make here?

  42. #43 ababa
    September 14, 2009

    You complain about name calling while you … use name calling.

    By the way, “bafoon” isn’t a word. You aren’t even bright enough to insult people intelligently. Yet you believe yourself to be intelligent enough to have it all figured out.

    That’s the thing about conspiracy theorists. They are holed up on their computers, confusing what they read with real awareness and being “in the know”. They think that questioning common viewpoints makes them smarter. It makes them feel better to “know more” than others, even if their pool of knowledge is nothing but hearsay and “facts” that conveniently ignore any and all evidence to the contrary.

    Disagreeing is not intelligence. Skepticism, in and of itself, is not intelligence. It actually needs to be of merit to qualify.

    Your “facts” do not qualify as intelligence. They only qualify as insulting to the memory of those that were affected. Do you actually believe you are helping by doing this? Bush and Cheney have much to answer for, the list is long enough even if we don’t start making up stuff.

    You obviously don’t care, as long as your conspiracy forums Internet friends think you are a cool guy.

  43. #44 defensivemuch
    September 18, 2009

    adaba your such a bore. There is no conspiracy theory when stating that 2 jetliners could not knock down 3 skyscrapers. You are the one who insults the people affected by that mass murder when you can’t see past your nose to try and understand who did that to them. As is normal with your posts and others you can’t answer the question so instead you dodge it. I feel sorry for you and the others who just can’t accept the obvious. Because the day you do finally figure it out it is going to hit you like a ton of bricks.
    Now let me set you straight. I used to design buildings. Mid rise and high rise buildings. I was directly involved with the structural aspect of building design. And I can tell you 100% and without question that 2 airplanes could not have knocked down 1 of those buildings, much less 3.

  44. #45 defensivemuch
    October 5, 2009

    Now back to the subject.
    Today’s article: Autism in children has doubled since 2003.

    http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/10/05/autism-may-be-more-common-than-thought.html

    But it’s just a genetic thing according to the idiots on this thread.

  45. #46 Joseph
    October 5, 2009

    Now back to the subject.
    Today’s article: Autism in children has doubled since 2003.

    http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/10/05/autism-may-be-more-common-than-thought.html

    But it’s just a genetic thing according to the idiots on this thread.

    @defensivemuch: Are you even aware this is parent-reported prevalence? If parent-reported prevalence increases, do you think this necessarily means true prevalence also increases? Explain why if you think so.

    Or could it be that autism was under-recognized previously? In fact, 1% prevalence might have been a surprise 10 years ago. With current methods, not at all.

    The survey is based on two questions, roughly like this: (1) Has a health professional ever told you that child has ASD? (2) Does child currently have ASD?

    An exceedingly simple survey like this can only roughly work in a country like the US, where there’s pretty good awareness of autism. Even then, it has some obvious issues.

    BTW, what do you think of the recent NHS survey of autism among adults?

  46. #47 defensivemuch
    October 16, 2009

    “BTW, what do you think of the recent NHS survey of autism among adults?”

    I’ll have to take a look at it. will get back on this.

  47. #48 wildsilver
    October 27, 2009

    Hello there good people, just wondering how often stuff goes wrong in your lives, like when professionals fail to deliver and what the consequences for you are?

    Ever tried to stand up to a crooked cop, politician, lawyer, uncoperative insurer….or a doctor for malpractice? Usually you’ll run out of money long before justice arrives.

    When it comes to your health though, that’s no longer ‘stuff’. I’m sure you all agree health lost can’t easily be replaced. So, for me, I always err on the side of caution, even if it means being seen as radical by asking aquward questions.

    Like how come Chicago’s Homefirst Medical Services Centre hasn’t seen one child with autism amongst the 30,000 or so children they have taken care of who have never been vaccinated. Do your own research, there’s a lot at stake, maybe everything.

    It seems vaccines are to the illness industry what cdo’s are to wall street, first and foremost an income stream. When it goes wrong just try for restitution or justice. Sorry, forgot, they’re covered by immunity now, oh well, there’s always the insurance…..if they don’t cancel you as an expense.

    Between the snake oil and the forked tongues it’s easy to see we’ve become the land of the thief and home of the slave.

    Do your best, make your choice, live with the consequence,

    Regards, Barry

  48. #49 Joseph C.
    October 27, 2009

    It seems vaccines are to the illness industry what cdo’s are to wall street, first and foremost an income stream.

    This just in: Drug companies want money! Wow, that’s some insider information you stumbled across there.

  49. #50 Prometheus
    October 27, 2009

    Wildsilver asks:

    “Like how come Chicago’s Homefirst Medical Services Centre hasn’t seen one child with autism amongst the 30,000 or so children they have taken care of who have never been vaccinated.”

    According to the US Census Bureau, there are 74.5 million children (ages 17 and under) in the US as of September 2009 – and 3.2 million in the state of Illinois. According to recent surveys, 0.6% of children ages 19 – 35 months are “completely unvaccinated”. (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5833a3.htm?s_cid=mm5833a3_e)

    This percentage won’t grow as the kids get older, since many of them will be vaccinated – at least partly – when they are ready to enter school. So, we can use 0.6% as the absolute maximum percentage of “completely unvaccinated” children in the US.

    If you “do the math”, you’ll see that means there can be – at most – 447,000 children “who have never been vaccinated” in the entire country and only 19,200 in the state of Illinois.

    Odd to find so many completely unvaccinated kids in one Chicago medical practice, isn’t it? Especially when they’d have to have all of the unvaccinated kids in Illinois, as well as most of the unvaccinated kids in Indiana, Iowa and Wisconsin, as well?

    Of course, there is always the possibility that the folks at “HomeFirst” are “off” on their numbers. Just a little.

    Since we already know that they don’t have “30,00 or so children” who are unvaccinated, maybe they also have a couple of kids with autism.

    Or more than a couple.

    What do you think?

    Prometheus

  50. #51 Antaeus Feldspar
    October 27, 2009

    You know, I thought the name “Homefirst Medical Services” rang a bell, like I had heard it before.

    There was a reason I had heard it before.

  51. #52 Todd W.
    October 28, 2009

    @wildsilver

    When it goes wrong just try for restitution or justice. Sorry, forgot, they’re covered by immunity now, oh well, there’s always the insurance…..if they don’t cancel you as an expense.

    Those individuals who suspect that their or their child’s injury was caused by a vaccine must go to the vaccine court first. However, they may still sue the company directly if:

    1. If the petition has been judged non-compensable or dismissed under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP); or
    2. If the award granted by the VICP is otherwise rejected by the petitioner; or
    3. If the vaccine is not covered under the VICP.
    (source: http://tinyurl.com/yko8fn9)

    The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is so incredibly poorly understood by the antivax crowd, and yet the information about the program, how it works, why it was created, etc., can be found on the VICP site (http://www.hrsa.gov/Vaccinecompensation/). But then, we already know that a lot of them are intellectually lazy and can’t be bothered with facts.

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